Brown v Leake County School Board Record on Appeal

    In t h e

lutteii States (Emtrt itf Appeals
Foe th e  F if t h  C ircu it  

No. 21224

In t h e  M atter of 

R. J ess B ro w n ,
Appellant.

appeal  from  th e  united  states district court for th e

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI

R EC O R D  ON A P P E A L

J ack  G reenberg 
D errick  A. B ell , J r .

10 Columbus Circle 
New York 19, New York

W illiam  R. M ing , Jr.
George N. L eighton

123 West Madison Street 
Chicago 2, Illinois

J ack  H . Y oung 
Carsie A. H all

115% North Farish Street 
Jackson, Mississippi

Attorneys for Appellant



I N D E X

PAGE

Motion to Dismiss Suit, or in Alternative to Remove 
Name of Grweennell McBeth ...............................- .....  10

Order on Motion to Dismiss Suit as to Ruthie Nell 
McBeth and Grweennell McBeth ................................. 13

Order for Citation Directed to R. Jess B row n ...........  14

Return by R. Jess Brown to Order of Citation, With 
Affidavit of R. Jess B row n........................................... 16

Amended Order for Citation — ...................................... 20

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of L a w ...................  22

Order ................................................ -..................................  26

Bill of Costs, Taxed, F ile d ............................................... 27

Motion to Vacate Order Assessing the Taxing of 
Costs ..................................................   28

Order Assessing the Respondent With Court Costs —- 29

Notice of Appeal ................................................-.............  31

Respondent’s Motion for Stay of Order Assessing Re­
spondent With Costs Pending A ppeal.......................  32

Complaint ........................................................................  1



11

Order Staying Assessment of Costs Pending Appeal.. 33

Submission of $500.00 Cash Supersedeas Bond on 
Appeal ..........................................................................  34

Order Extending Time for Filing Record on Appeal .. 35

This Designation.............................................................  36

T ranscript  op H e a r in g ..................................................  38

P etitio n er ’s W it n e s s :

R. Jess Brown
Cross ........................................................................  39
Direct................   126
Recross ...............................................................   156

R espondent ’s W itnesses :

Winson Gates Hudson
Direct........................................................................  159
Cross ......................     184

Do vie Hudson
Direct..................    194
Cross ........................................................................  207

Lester Cleo Hudson
Direct........................................................................  211
Cross ..........................   218
Redirect..................................................................... 220

James Overstreet
Direct........................................................................  221
Cross ........................................................................  230

PAGE



Ill

PAGE
Belionor McDonald

D irect............... ............................................................. 236
Cross ..............................-.............................................  245
Redirect...................-..... ..... ................ .......... ............  256
Recross ........................................................................  257

Willie Earl Lewis
D irect........ ............     258
Cross ..........................    264

Alice Greer
D irect................  .   269
Cross ...........      275
Redirect...................................    279

Respondent’s Exhibit 4 ........          280

Respondent’s Exhibit 5 ..................................................... 281

Respondent’s Exhibit 6 .........................   281

Respondent’s Exhibit 7 ....................................................  281

Respondent’s Exhibit 8 ..................................................... 281

Respondent’s Exhibit 10 ..................................................   282

Respondent’s Exhibit 11 ................................................... 282

Court’s Exhibit 1 . . ? * ............................................ 2S6

Court’s Exhibit 2   286

Court Reporter’s Certificate .......    290



I s  THE

§>t®t£3 Itutnrt Olmtrt
F or th e  S o uth ern  D istrict of M ississippi 

J ackson  D ivision

D ian  H udson , J oan H udson , M ary H udson , m inors, by  
D ovie H udson , their m other and next fr ien d , and

H erbert D odson and P h il l ip  D odson, m inors, by  
J im  D odson, their fa th er  and n ext fr ien d , and

J im m ie  Greer, a m inor b y  A lice G reer, his m other 
and next fr ien d , and

H arry  G reer and M cA rth u r  G reer and G ary K e ith  G reer, 
m in ors, b y  H en rine  G reer, their m oth er and next 
fr ien d , and

M adison G r iff in , B illie  Griffin  and R obert J. Gr if f in , 
m in ors b y  S m it h  Gr if f in , their g ran d fa th er and next 
fr ien d , and

P eggie J ean H udson , a m inor, by  J o h n n ie  H udson, 
her fa th er and next fr ien d , and

L ucy  L ee L ew is , L illie  B. L ew is and W illie  L ee L ew is , 
m inors, b y  W illie  E arl L ew is , th eir fa th er and next 
fr ien d , and

G w een n ell  M cB e t h , m inor, by  R u th ie  K ell M cB e t h , 
their m other and next fr ien d , and

N adine M cK ee , P ercy M cK ee and N orma M cK ee , m inors, 
b y  0 .  W. M cK ee, their fa th er and n ext fr ien d , and

I  vie J ames Overstreet, K e n n e t h  R ay Overstreet, T ilda 
G race O verstreet and Carolyn  Overstreet, m inors, by  
J am es Overstreet, their fa th er and next fr ien d , and



2

R obert D odd, a m in or, by E ssie L ee T ow nsend , his g ra n d ­
m oth er and next fr ien d , and

M argie S anders and D a n n y  S anders, m in ors, b y  D ock 
S anders, th eir fa th er  and next fr ien d , and

S h irley  G ates and P atricia A n n  H ughes , m inors, by  
M alodia V ivrette , th eir m oth er and next fr ien d , and

Plaintiffs,

Complaint

YS.

L eake C o u nty  S chool B oard, D. C. W are, Chairman, G u y  
P. P igg, N. W. W ard, J. C. T aylor , V. W. R eives, I. A. 
F errell, L yster M yrick  and J. T . B oston L ogan, 
Superintendent,

Defendants.

Complaint

1.

The jurisdiction of this Court is invoked pursuant to the 
provisions of Title 28, United States Code, Section 1343(3), 
this being a suit in equity authorized by law, Title 42, 
United States Code, Section 1983, to be commenced by an 
citizen of the United States or other person within the juris­
diction thereof to redress the deprivation, under color of 
statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage of the State, 
of rights, privileges and immunities secured by the Con­
stitution and laws of the United States. The rights, privi­
leges and immunities sought to be secured by this action, 
are rights, privileges and immunities secured by the due 
process and equal protection clauses of the Fourteenth



3

Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as 
hereinafter more fully appears.

2.

This is a proceeding for a preliminary and permanent in­
junction enjoining the Leake County Board of Education, 
its members and its Superintendent J. T. Boston Logan, 
from continuing the policy, practice, custom and usage of 
discriminating against the plaintiffs and other Negro 
citizens of Leake County because of race or color, and for 
other relief as hereinafter more fully appears.

3.
The plaintiffs in this case are Dian Hudson, Joan Hud­

son, Mary Hudson, minors, by Dovie Hudson, their mother 
and next friend; Herbert Dotson and Phillip Dotson, 
minors, by Jim Dotson, their father and next friend; Jimmie 
Greer, a minor by Alice Greer, his mother and next friend; 
Harry Greer, McArthur Greer and Gary K. Greer, minors, 
by Henrine Greer, their mother and next friend; Madison 
Griffin, Billie Griffin and Robert J. Griffin, minors by Smith 
Griffin, their grandfather and next friend; Peggie Jean 
Hudson, a minor, by Johnnie Hudson, her father and next 
friend; Lucy Lee Lewis, Lillie B. Lewis and Willie Lee 
Lewis, minors, by Willie Earl Lewis, their father and next 
friend; Gweennell McBeth, minor by Ruthie Neil McBeth, 
their mother and next friend; Nadine McKee, Percy McKee 
and Norma McKee, minors, by 0. W. McKee, their father 
and next friend; I vie James Overstreet, Kenneth Ray Over- 
street, Tilda Grace Overstreet, Carolyn Overstreet, minors, 
by James Overstreet, their father and next friend; Robert 
Dodd, a minor, by Essie Lee Townsend, his grandmother 
and next friend; Margie Sanders and Danny Sanders,

Complaint



4

minors, by Dock Sanders, their father and next friend and 
Shirley Gates and Patricia Ann Hughes, minors by Malodia 
Yiverette, their mother and next friend. Plaintiffs are all 
members of the Negro race and bring this action on their 
own behalf and on behalf of all other Negro children and 
their parents in Leake County who are similarly situated 
and affected by the policy, practice, custom and usage com­
plained of herein. Plaintiffs are all citizens of the United 
States and the State of Mississippi, Leake County, Missis­
sippi. The minor plaintiffs and other minor Negro children 
similarly situated are eligible to attend the public high 
schools of Leake County which are under the jurisdiction, 
management and control of the defendant Board, but from 
which the plaintiffs and all other Negro children similarly 
situated have been segregated because of their race pur­
suant to the policy, practice, custom and usage of the de­
fendant Board. The members of the class on behalf of 
whom plaintiffs sue are so numerous as to make it im­
practicable to bring them all individually before this Court, 
but there are common questions of law and fact involved, 
common grievances arising out of common wrongs and 
common relief is sought for each plaintiff and for each 
member of the class. The plaintiffs fairly and adequately 
represent the interests of the class.

4.
The defendants in this case are the Leake County Board 

of Education. The members of said Board are Guy P. Pigg, 
N. W. Ward, J. C. Taylor, Y. W. Reives, I. A. Ferrell, 
Lyster Myrick and D. C. Ware. The defendant Board 
maintains and generally supervises the public schools in 
Leake County, Mississippi, acting pursuant to the direction 
and authority contained in the State’s constitutional provi­

Complaint



5

sions and statutes, and as such are officers and agents of 
the State of Mississippi enforcing and exercising state 
laws and policies.

5.

Plaintiffs allege that the defendant Board, acting under 
color of the authority vested in it by the laws of the State 
of Mississippi, has pursued and are presently following pur­
suant to and under color of state law, a policy, custom, prac­
tice and usage of operating the public school system of 
Leake County, Mississippi, on a basis that discriminates 
against plaintiffs and other Negroes similarly situated be­
cause of race or color, to w it:

(a) The defendant Board maintains and operates the 
public schools in Leake County, Mississippi, all of which 
schools are operated on a completely segregated basis. No 
Negro children residing within the County, and eligible 
to attend the public schools have ever been assigned by 
the Board to attend white schools, and in accordance with 
this policy, practice and custom, the plaintiffs are assigned 
to Negro schools located further from their homes than 
schools limited to whites. Teachers, principals and other 
professional personnel are assigned by the defendant Board 
on the basis of race so that Negro teaching personnel are 
assigned to Negro schools and white teaching personnel 
are assigned to white schools. All budgets and other funds 
appropriated and expended by defendants are appropriated 
and expended by defendants separately for Negro and 
white schools.

(b) On February 23, 1962, the adult plaintiffs, along 
with other local Negro citizens, all of whom had waited 
in vain for the defendant Board to operate the public 
schools as required by the United States Supreme Court in

Complaint



6

Brown v. Board of Education, in 1954, submitted a petition 
to the Board requesting that the minor plaintiffs and all 
other Negro children similarly situated be assigned to the 
public schools without regard to race.

(c) Plaintiffs received no answer from the Board in re­
sponse to their petition, but during the month of March 29, 
1962, Mr. 0. E. Jordens, Principal of the Negro High 
School of Carthage, Mississippi, personally wrote each 
parent who had signed the petition, spoke of the advantages 
of the segregated schools and urged them not to take 
further action to change the system because the white 
community would react adversely to such efforts.

(d) In August 1962, Negro parents including adult 
plaintiffs again petitioned the defendant Board to desegre­
gate the public schools of Leake County “by terminating the 
practice and policy of assigning students to schools on 
the basis of race, . . . ”

(e) To date, plaintiffs have received no reply to their 
petition from the defendant Board, but during the nights of 
October 4th and 5th, 1962, the homes of plaintiffs Mr. 
James Overstreet and Mrs. Ruthie Nell McBeth and other 
Negroes were shot into by parties whose identity local law 
enforcement authorities have failed to ascertain.

6.

The defendants’ policies, practices, customs and usage of 
racial segregation herein detailed show the determined 
policy of the State of Mississippi to maintain racial segre­
gation in the public schools, which policy is amply reflected 
in the Constitution and Statutes of the State of Missis­
sippi requiring segregation or aiding in the maintenance of

Complaint



7

segregation: Art. 8, §207, Miss. Const., requires mainte­
nance of separate schools for white and colored children; 
§3841.3 Miss. Code Annot., authorizes the attorney general 
to represent school officials in suits challenging validity of 
school operation; §4065.3, Miss. Code Annot., entire execu­
tive branch to prohibit by all lawful means the racial 
integration of public schools and other public facilities; 
§6220.5 Miss. Code Annot., forbids attendance of whites 
with Negroes in any public school of high school level or 
lower on penalty of fine, jail or both; §6334.11—forbids en­
rollment of child in any school except that to which as­
signed or transferred according to state statute.

7.
Plaintiffs allege that the policy, custom, practice and 

usage of the defendant Board in requiring plaintiffs and 
other Negro children similarly situated to attend racially 
segregated schools in Leake County, violates the rights of 
the plaintiffs and other similarly situated in violation of 
the equal protection and due process clauses of the Four­
teenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States 
and Title 42, United States Code, Section 1983.

8.

Plaintiffs have made every effort, as set forth above, to 
communicate their dissatisfaction with segregated schools 
to the defendant Board, but without effecting any change. 
The only result of their efforts has been threats and violence 
from the community. Plaintiffs have not sought to utilize 
the provisions of the state Pupil Assignment Act as adopted 
in 1954, Miss. Code Annot., §§6334-01 to 6334-07, and submit 
that the exhaustion of remedies provided by this Act would 
prove futile and inadequate, in view of the state policy and

Complaint



8

the policy of the defendants, to provide the relief which 
plaintiffs seek here.

Complaint

9.

Plaintiffs and each of them and those similarly situated 
have suffered and will continue to suffer irreparable in­
jury and harm caused by the acts of the defendant Board 
herein complained of. They have no plain, adequate or com­
plete remedy to redress these wrongs other than this suit 
for injunctive relief. Any other remedy would be at­
tended by such uncertainties and delays as to deny sub­
stantial relief, would involve a multiplicity of suits, cause 
further irreparable injury and occasion damage, vexation 
and inconvenience to the plaintiffs and those similarly 
situated.

W herefore, p la in tiffs  resp ectfu lly  p ra y  th a t:

1. the Court advance this cause on the docket and order 
a speedy hearing of this case, and

2. after hearing, issue a permanent injunction against 
the defendant Board, enjoining it, its agents, employees, 
servants or attorneys, from refusing to operate the schools 
within Leake County on a unitary racial basis, and that as­
signment of pupils to such schools be made without regard 
to race or color.

In the alternative, plaintiffs pray that this Court enter 
a decree directing defendant Board to present a complete 
plan, within a period of time to be determined by this 
Court, for the reorganization of the entire school system of 
Leake County into a unitary nonracial system which shall 
include a plan for the assignment of children on a nonracial 
basis; the assignment of teachers and other professional



9

Complaint

school personnel on a nonraeial basis; and the elimination 
of any other discrimination in the operation of the school 
system based solely upon race and color. Plaintiffs pray 
that if this Court directs the defendants Board to produce a 
desegregation plan that this Court will retain jurisdiction 
of this case pending Court approval and full and complete 
implementation of defendant’s plan.

Plaintiffs pray that this Court will allow them their costs 
herein and grant such further, other, additional or alterna­
tive relief as may appear to the Court to be equitable 
and just.

R . J ess B row n

125% N. Parish Street 
Jackson, Mississippi

J ack  Greenberg 
C onstance B aker  M otley 
D errick A . B ell , J r .

Suite 1790 
10 Columbus Circle 
New York 19, New York

Attorneys for Plaintiffs



10

[C aption  O m itted ]

M otion  to D ismiss S u it , or in  A lternative  to R emove 
N am e  oe G w e en n ell  M cB e t h , a M inor by R u th ie  

N ell  M cB e t h , H er M other and N ext F riend

Comes now Ruthie Nell McBetli, an adult resident of 
Leake County, Mississippi, individually, and as mother, 
natural guardian and next friend of Gweennell McBeth, a 
minor, and moves the Court to dismiss the above styled and 
numbered cause insofar as this plaintiff and her minor child 
are concerned, or, in the alternative, to withdraw her name 
and the name of her minor child as a plaintiff in said suit, 
and for cause of such action would respectfully show unto 
the Court the following matters and facts, to-wit:

1.
The undersigned, while admitting that she signed a peti­

tion seeking to desegregate the schools of Leake County, 
Mississippi, on or about February 23, 1962, and on or 
about the day of August, 1962, would show that she 
was advised that such petition was, in effect, a threat in an 
attempt to have the Harmony Attendance Center re-estab­
lished in said county; that it was not her understanding at 
that time and is not now her understanding or desire to 
be a party to any suit of the type she has been listed as a 
plaintiff; that at no time in the jjast has she authorized any 
group attorney, or organization to the use of her name or 
that of her minor child as a plaintiff in this suit or any of 
like type or import; the allegation contained in para­
graph 5(a) that her home was shot into by parties whose 
identity local law enforcement authorities have failed to

Motion to Dismiss Suit, or in Alternative to
Remove Name of Gweennell McBetli



11

ascertain is wholly and utterly false; that she has never 
been molested in her home in any way.

2.
Your petitioner would show that she has no complaint 

with the system of schools being operated by defendants 
and does not know whether same is segregated or unsegre­
gated; her only complaint has been that the Harmony At­
tendance Center should have been allowed to remain as an 
Attendance Center for the attendance by students residing 
in its general area.

Wherefore, your petitioner respectfully prays that the 
Court will enter an order dismissing said suit insofar as it 
concerns the said Ruthie Nell McBeth and/or her minor 
child, Gweennell McBeth, or in the alternative, that the 
Court order their names stricken from said suit as parties 
thereto.

Respectfully submitted,

R uthie  N ell  M cB e t h , ind iv idu ally  
and as m other and n ext fr ie n d  o f  
G w een n ell  M cB e t h , a m in or child.

Motion to Dismiss Suit, or in Alternative to Remove
Name of Gweennell McBeth

S tate of M ississippi 
L eake C ounty

Personally appeared before me the undersigned authority, 
a Notary Public in and for said county and state, the within 
named Ruthie Nell McBeth, who being by me first duly 
sworn, on her oath states that she is an adult resident of 
Leake County, Mississippi, that she is the mother and next



12

Motion to Dismiss Suit, or in Alternative to Remove
Name of Oweennell McBeth

friend of Gweennell McBeth, a minor child, that the mat­
ters and statements contained in the foregoing motion are 
true and correct as therein stated; that this motion has been 
made by her freely and voluntarily and without any undue 
influence and that the first she knew that she was a party 
to said suit was when she read her name in the paper; that 
no one has solicited her action in filing this motion, but same 
is done at her instance and request; and that all matters 
contained above are true and correct and she is prepared 
to so testify in Court in need be.

R u t h ie  N ell  M cB e t h , individually 
and as mother and next friend of 
G w e en n ell  M cB e t h , a minor child.

Sworn to and subscribed before me this the 23rd day of 
March, A.D., 1963.

V erna  S trong 
Notary Public
My Commission expires: 5-10-65



13

[C aption O m itted ]

Order

On motion of Buthie Nell McBeth, as mother and next 
friend of Gweennell McBeth, a minor, that the complaint 
in the above styled cause be dismissed as to her and said 
minor or in the alternative that the names be stricken from 
the suit as parties plaintiff therein and for good cause 
shown and counsel for plaintiffs having stated in open 
court that he did not desire to oppose the motion,

It is ordered that the complaint in the above styled and 
numbered cause as to Ruthie Nell McBeth and Gweennell 
McBeth, a minor, be and the same is hereby dismissed and 
their names are ordered stricken from the complaint as 
plaintiffs therein.

Ordered this the 5th day o f  April, 1963.

S. C. M ize 
District Judge

Order on Motion to Dismiss Suit as to Retliie Nell
MeBeila and Gweennell McBeth



14

[C aption  O m itted ]

O rder eor Citation

It appearing to the Court that there are probable irregu­
larities on the part of counsel in the institution of this suit, 
including serious charges made therein against an entire 
community in this state; the Court of its own motion, deems 
it necessary and proper for the protection of its own dignity 
and integrity and in proper supervision of attorneys as offi­
cers of this Court, to inquire into the proprieties of counsel 
involved in such respects; and is of the opinion that a cita­
tion should promptly issue, directed to local counsel (R. 
Jess Brown of Jackson, Mississippi) affording him an op­
portunity to show the Court all of the facts and circum­
stances surrounding his employment as counsel by each of 
the Plaintiffs, including (particularly) his employment by 
“ Gweennell McBeth, a minor, by Ruthie Nell McBeth, her 
mother and next friend” ; and to show the Court the factual 
foundation of paragraph 5(a) of the Complaint, to the effect 
that “during the nights of October 4th and 5th, 1962, the 
homes of Plaintiffs Mr. James Overstreet and Mrs. Ruthie 
Nell McBeth and other negroes were shot into by parties 
whose identity local law enforcement authorities have failed 
to ascertain” and as to the intended relevancy and perti­
nency and purpose of said charge in this suit.

It is, therefore, so ordered and adjudged by the Court 
that a citation may issue under the hand and seal of the 
Clerk of this Court, directed to said local counsel (R. Jess 
Brown), returnable at Jackson, Mississippi, before this 
Court on April 20, 1963, at 9:00 A.M. directing him then 
and there to fully disclose and reveal to this Court all of 
the facts and circumstances in this case showing his proper 
employment by each of the Plaintiffs in this case, and show­

Order for Citation Directed to R. Jess Brown



15

ing some substantial factual basis for the charge contained 
in paragraph 5 (e) of the Complaint; or to show cause why 
he should not be adjudged in contempt of this Court for any 
impropriety or impermissible irregularity in such connec­
tions, and why he should not be properly punished therefor 
as to the Court may then seem meet and proper; and for 
such other and further orders as may then be deemed 
proper and necessary in such connection.

A  certified copy of this Order may be served on said at­
torney by the United States Marshal or his deputy of this 
District as adequate service of a citation and in lieu of the 
issuance and service of such process therefor.

So ordered this April 6, A. D., 1963.

H arold C ox

United States District Judge

Order for Citation Directed to B. Jess Brown



16

Return by XL Jess Brown to Order o f  Citation, 
With Affidavit o f  R. Jess Brown

[C aption  O m itted ]

R etu rn  to th e  Order of C itation

Now comes R . J ess B r o w n , one of counsel for the plain­
tiffs herein, and for return to the citation directed to him 
by this Court on April 6, 1963, says:

1. Respondent is a duly licensed and practicing member 
of the Mississippi Bar and has been for nearly ten years 
and he is a member of the Bar of this Court. During 1961 
a number of Negro residents of Leake County, Mississippi, 
consulted Respondent and other counsel for the plaintiffs 
herein with respect to the denial of public educational op­
portunities to Negro children in that county. Counsel ad­
vised those persons as to the views of counsel with respect 
to the legal rights of the Negro residents of Leake County 
to public education and the legal remedies available to se­
cure those rights if the wrongful withholding of them con­
tinued.

2. In December 1961 a number of Negro residents of 
Leake County, Mississippi, including all of the named plain­
tiffs herein, duly retained Respondent to represent them 
and their children in an effort to desegregate the public 
school system of Leake County, Mississippi. These resi­
dents expressly authorized Respondent to take any and all 
steps he deemed available to this end, including presenta­
tion of petitions to the school board or other administrative 
agencies, and expressly authorized Respondent to proceed 
in the necessary courts, trial and appellate, to obtain de­
segregation in the public schools of Leake County. In 
addition, these residents of Leake County, including all 
of the named plaintiffs in this proceeding, explicitly au­
thorized Respondent to associate any and all other at­



17

torneys with him that he might deem necessary to represent 
these Leake County citizens in this matter.

3. Thereafter Respondent proceeded in this matter 
wholly and solely on the basis of that authority and in ac­
cordance with it. Prior to April 5, 1963, none of these per­
sons, and no other person, has questioned the authorization 
or authority of Respondent so to proceed.

4. A  motion of Mrs. Ruthie Nell McBeth, one of the 
named plaintiffs herein, to dismiss this suit in so far as it 
concerns her and her minor child Gweennell or, in the alter­
native to remove her name as a party plaintiff, was pre­
sented to this Court on April 5, 1963, by counsel for the 
defendants herein. The first notice to ResjJondent of the 
allegations of the said Mrs. McBeth contained in that mo­
tion came on that day when the said motion was presented. 
Neither Mrs. McBeth nor any person purporting to rep­
resent her appeared before this Court at that time but 
Respondent suggested to the Court that the names of 
Ruthie Nell McBeth and her minor child Gweennell be 
stricken from the complaint if they so desired without 
regard to the truth of the allegations on which tha mo- 
ion was based. It is Respondent’s understanding that 
this was accomplished by order of the Court entered on 
that day. Respondent submits that this disposed of the 
McBeth motion.

5. Neither Respondent nor any of counsel for the plain­
tiffs herein has engaged in any irregularities in the institu­
tion of this suit and no competent evidence has been intro­
duced in this Court upon which to base a conclusion that 
there are probable irregularities on the part of Respondent 
or any other counsel for the plaintiffs in the institution of 
this suit. Save to the extent that this citation may consti­
tute such a charge, there is not pending before this Court

Return by R. Jess Brown to Order of Citation



18

in this proceeding, or otherwise, any charge of any irregu­
larity on the part of Respondent or any counsel for the 
plaintiffs in the institution of this suit.

6. With respect to the allegations of paragraph 5(e) 
of the complaint Respondent states that no issue of fact 
with respect to these allegations has been raised by the 
defendants. To the contrary, the motion of the defendants 
to dismiss the complaint in this case admits those allega­
tions. Under these circumstances Respondent respectfully 
urges that any inquiry by this Court as to this matter is 
premature but there are numerous witnesses to the fact 
that some person or persons did on or about October 4 and 
5, 1962, shoot into buildings and structures used and occu­
pied by the plaintiffs named in paragraph 5(e) of the com­
plaint and other Negro citizens of Leake County. So far as 
Respondent was informed at the time of the filing of the 
complaint, local law enforcement authorities had not ascer­
tained the identity of the persons responsible for these at­
tacks on Negro residents of Leake County. These allega­
tions are deemed by Respondent and other counsel for plain­
tiffs to be relevant to the issue of necessity for prior ex­
haustion of administrative remedies by plaintiffs raised by 
defendants. But defendants have raised no issue as to the 
relevancy of these allegations so that Respondent respect­
fully urges that any inquiry by this Court at this time as 
to their relevancy is premature.

7. Respondent assures the Court that as an officer of 
this Court he shares the Court’s concern for protection of 
its dignity and integrity and for supervision of the mem­
bers of its bar. In this connection Respondent respectfully 
urges the Court to inquire into the relationship, if any, 
between counsel for the defendants and the said Mrs. Mc- 
Beth, and the communications, if any, between said counsel 
and Mrs. McBeth with respect to matters concerning the

Return by R. Jess Brown to Order of Citation



19

relationship of Respondent as a lawyer with the said Mrs. 
McBeth as a client without any notice or information to 
Respondent from either counsel for the defendants or Mrs. 
McBeth.

Wherefore, Respondent respectfully prays the Court to 
discharge the citation heretofore entered by the Court on 
April 6, 1963, or in the alternative that Respondent be pro­
vided an opportunity, in accordance with the Constitution 
and laws of the United States, to due and timely notice 
of any charges of improper conduct on the part of Respon­
dent in the institution of this suit, or otherwise, and that, 
also in accordance with the Constitution and laws of the 
United States, Respondent be provided with an opportunity 
to confront any witnesses who may be adduced to support 
any such charges and to cross-examine any such witness 
or witnesses and for such other and further opportunity to 
defend against any such charge as may be made as may be 
consistent with, and required by, due process of law in ac­
cordance with the requirements of the Fifth Amendment to 
the Constitution of the United States and the Rules and 
decisions of this Court.

Respectfully submitted,

W illiam  R. M exg, J r .
G eorge N. L eighton

123 West Madison Street 
Chicago 2, Illinois

J ack  H . Y oung

Cassie A. H all 
115% North Farish Street 

Jackson, Mississippi

B y .....................................

(Duly verified by R. Jess Brown on April 10, 1963.)

Return by R. Jess Brown to Order of Citation



20

[C aption  O m itted ]

Pursuant to conferences with the respondent and after a 
preliminary hearing this morning, it is the view of the 
Court that the former order herein dated April 6, 1963, be 
now amended to read as follows:

It appearing to the Court that there are probable ir­
regularities on the part of counsel in the institution of 
this suit, including serious averments made therein against 
an entire community in this state; the Court of its own mo­
tion, deems it necessary and proper for the protection of 
its own dignity and integrity and in proper supervision 
of attorneys as officers of this Court, to inquire into the 
proprieties of counsel involved in such respects; and is of 
the opinion that R. Jess Brown of Jackson, Mississippi, 
should be afforded an opportunity to show the Court all of 
the facts and circumstances surrounding his employment 
as counsel by each of the plaintiffs, including (particularly) 
his employment by “ Gweennell McBeth, a minor, by Ruthie 
Nell McBeth, her mother and next friend;” and to show the 
Court the factual foundation of paragraph 5(a) of the Com­
plaint, to the effect that “during the nights of October 4th 
and 5th, 1962, the homes of plaintiffs, Mr. James Overstreet 
and Mrs. Ruthie Nell McBeth and other negroes, were shot 
into by parties whose identity local law enforcement au­
thorities have failed to ascertain” and as to the intended 
relevancy and pertinency and purpose of said averment 
in this suit; and that this order and said order herein of 
April 6, 1963 should be treated and considered as a charge 
containing interrogatories to be answered by the respon­
dent.

It appearing to the Court that the former order of this 
Court was duly served on the respondent and that no need

Amended Order for Citation



21

or necessity exists for further process on the respondent, 
but that a certified copy of this amended order shall be 
mailed by the Clerk of this Court to E. Jess Brown, At- 
torney-at-law, 1251J North Farish Street, Jackson, Missis­
sippi, as sufficient due process herein, and said E, Jess 
Brown is ordered to appear before this Court in the court 
room at Jackson, Mississippi, at 9 :00 A.M., May 11, 1963, 
then and there to fully disclose and reveal to this Court 
all of the facts and circumstances in this case showing 
his proper employment by each of the plaintiffs (and par­
ticularly by Buthie Nell McBeth and daughter) in this case, 
and showing some substantial factual basis for the aver­
ment contained in paragraph 5(a) of the complaint; or to 
show cause why he should not be disciplined by this Court 
for any impropriety or impermissible irregularity in such 
connections, and why he should not be properly punished 
therefor as to the Court may then seem meet and proper; 
for such other and further orders as may then be deemed 
proper and necessary in such connection.

So ordered, this April 20, A. D., 1963.

H arold Cox
United States District Judge

Amended Order for Citation



22

Findings o f  Fact and Conclusions o f  Law 

[C aption  O m itted ]

This collateral proceeding was instituted by this Court 
under this case number in Dian Hudson, et al., plaintiffs v. 
Leake County School Board, et al., defendants, pursuant to 
an order for citation, dated April 6, 1963, as amended on 
April 20, 1963, directed to R. Jess Brown as local counsel 
in this case for the respondent to show cause why he should 
not be disciplined for matters therein stated. The Court 
heard testimony in this matter extensively on May 11, 
July 27 and August 3, 1963, when said hearings were con­
cluded.

F in d in g  op F acts

The respondent was required by the citation to explain 
his action in including Ruthie Nell McBeth as one of the 
plaintiffs in the Dian Hudson case against the Leake County 
School Board when she swore that she had not authorized 
the use of her name in that suit. He was further required 
by the citation to explain the averment in the complaint to 
the effect that the home of Ruthie Nell McBeth was shot 
into by unknown persons when such was not a fact. Ruthie 
Nell McBeth, a negress with a high school education, had 
a daughter six years of age. She was interested in her at­
tending a colored school in the Harmony Community of 
Leake County. This Harmony School had been established 
and in use for many years and had grown to be a community 
center. The county school board closed the school and 
consolidated it with another school several miles away. 
The colored citizens, and particularly those who had 
children of school age, were irritated and inconvenienced 
by this move. Ruthie Nell McBeth was interested with



23

others in the community in getting this school back in 
operation. There were others in the community who wished 
to seize upon this circumstance to integrate with the white 
schools of the county. On December 20, 1961, Euthie Nell 
McBeth signed an instrument designated as “ Retainer” 
wherein she certified her employment of R. Jess Brown, 
“ a duly licensed and practicing Attorney at Law of Vicks­
burg, Warren County, Mississippi, to represent me and my 
child or children in an effort to desegregate the public 
school system in Leake County, Mississippi and therefore 
further authorize said Attorney to take any and all neces­
sary steps he deems available in said action including the 
filing and presentation of any petition which may be ex­
ecuted by me to the School Board or any other Adminis­
trative Agency, and to proceed in the necessary Courts, 
Trail (sic) and Appellet (sic), to attain said desegrega­
tion of the public schools of said County. I further au­
thorize said Attorney to associate any and all other At­
torneys and Counselors of (sic) Law he may deem neces­
sary in representing me in said action.” Pursuant to that 
instrument, Euthie Nell McBeth signed a petition with 
fifty-two other members of the community requesting the 
school board to desegregate the schools of Leake County. 
Subsequently, another petition was circulated in the com­
munity at the instance of the respondent which was signed 
by only fifteen members of the community. This last peti­
tion was circulated according to the respondent to determine 
as to whom desired his services in this suit. Euthie Nell 
McBeth did not sign this last petition. Nevertheless, the re­
spondent instituted this suit with only thirteen plaintiffs, 
including the name of Euthie Nell McBeth and her child.

The “Retainer” instrument was presented to Euthie Nell 
McBeth by Mrs. Winston Hudson who told her that the in­

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



24

strument was simply to get their school back and told her 
it was not necessary for her read it. Ruthie Nell McBeth 
did not read the instrument and did not understand it or 
intend to employ R. Jess Brown to represent her in this 
case. On the other hand, R. Jess Brown in good faith 
understood and actually intended the instrument to employ 
him as her attorney in this case although a fee was not 
therein fixed. There was no meeting of the minds of these 
parties through no fault of either of them. There was no 
shooting into the house of Ruthie Nell McBeth but on 
October 4, 1962, there was a shooting into a business estab­
lishment of her family nearby. No causal connection be­
tween the shooting and the subject matter of the complaint 
is shown by the evidence. The respondent explains that the 
statement was made in the complaint to show the futility 
of undertaking to exhaust his administrative remedies, but 
while the stated purpose is to no avail, it appears to the 
Court to be an innocuous statement under the circumstances 
mentioned.

On April 5, 1963, this Court entered an order on motion 
of Ruthie Nell McBeth striking her name as one of the 
plaintiffs when the respondent “ stated in open court that 
he did not desire to oppose the motion.” He stated in this 
trial that he did not explain his situation to Judge Mize 
because he was not sure he had a “Retainer” with this 
woman. He made a diligent search at his office until late 
in the evening on that day and located this retainer. The 
respondent was advised by the Court on April 6, 1963, that 

I he was being citated to explain his conduct in the instances 
mentioned to the Court prior to the signing of the order 
therefor, but he made no attempt to make any explanation, 
or showing to the Court at the time although he had his 
brief case with him. Forthrightness and candor and honesty

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



25

with the Court at all times by an attorney at the bar of 
this Court very emphatically required the respondent to 
have made some explanation to each of the judges of this 
Court on the occasions mentioned, but he did not even offer 
to do so.

Conclusions of L aw

It became the duty of this Court in the exercise of its 
inherent power and positive duty of supervision of attor­
neys at the bar to call into question the conduct of the 
respondent under the circumstances mentioned. The re­
spondent owed this Court the duty to voluntarily explain 
his action in instituting this suit in the name of this woman 
after she presented her affidavit and motion to the effect 
that she had not authorized him to include her name in 
this suit. The Court was thereby impelled to spend approxi­
mately two and a half days hearing this matter to reach 
the conclusion stated. Obviously, counsel probably became 
entangled in this web of circumstance by putting his con­
tracts of employment in the hands of other unprofessional 
parties who procured the execution thereof. Attached to the 
McBeth “ Retainer” is a statistical sheet which was not 
prepared by Ruthie Nell McBeth and is inaccurate in 
several important respects. Nevertheless, it is the opinion 
of this Court under all of the circumstances that it is not 
shown by a preponderance of the evidence that the respon­
dent is guilty of any wanton impropriety in the respects 
in question; and that the citation should be discharged 
at the cost of the respondent.

August 20, A. D., 1963

H arold C ox

United States District Judge

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



26

Order

[C aption  O m itted ]

This Cause coming on to be heard on citation against 
R. Jess Brown, an attorney at the bar of this Court, and 
the Court having made its Finding of Facts and Conclusions 
of Law upon the hearing of this matter on all of the evidence 
adduced by the parties:

It is n o w  so ordered and adjudged by the Court that the 
citation herein as amended against B. Jess Brown, an at­
torney at the bar of this Court, is discharged and said 
proceedings are now finally dismissed with prejudice, but 
the respondent is assessed with all costs of this disciplinary 
proceeding to be taxed under the rules of this Court, and 
he is ordered to pay any such costs within five days after 
final taxation thereof, failing in which his right to practice 
before this Court shall be suspended until the full payment 
thereof.

Ordered and adjudged, this August 20, A. D., 1963.

H arold Cox
United States District Judge



Form A. O. 133 Rev. 1-1-52 BILL OP COSTS
Htttfeitt fifstrirt Court

f o r  t f fr
SO U TH E RN  D IS T R IC T  O F M ISSISSIPPI 

.............  JA C K S ON , M ISSISSIPPI

IN THE M A T T E R  O F R . JESS BR O W N , -i
A tto rn e y  At Law

vs. - C iv i l  A c t i o n  F il e  N o . 3382

Judgment having been entered in the above entitled action on the 
A u gu st ,1 9  63 , against R. J e s s  B row n
the clerk is requested to tax the following as costs:

B I L L  O F  C O S T S

Fees of the clerk $__

Fees of the marshal __
Fees of the court reporter for all or any part of the

transcript necessarily obtained for use in the case —

Fees and disbursements for printing _

Fees for witnesses (itemized on reverse side) —
Fees for exemplification and copies of papers 

necessarily obtained for use in case

Docket fees under 28 U. S. C. 1923

Costs incident to taking of depositions E * K night, R e p o r te r  _  
"  "  "  "  "  "  E .A .J o  rdan.., C o m m r .

Costs as shown on Mandate of Court of Appeals —
Other Costs (Please itemize)

D .M . B oyd , S h e r iff, L eak e  C ounty —
S erv in g  3 subpoenas

20 th

3. 00

132.32

108.55 
5. 00

15. 00

day of

SMITHERN DISTRICT I *  MISSISSIPPI 
F I L  t  D
S E P  1 7  1963 

l c r j c e  E .  V P b a r lo n , C le rk

..... “ 9 ® .
State of M is s is s ip p i  
County of H inds

Total
2 6 3 .8 7

ss:

I L .  A rn o ld  P y le  do hereby swear that the
foregoing costs are correct and were necessarily incurred in this action and that the services for which 
fees have been charged were actually and necessarily performed. A copy hereof was this day mailed 
to R. J e s s  B row n  with postage
fully prepaid thereon.

Please take notice that I will appear before the Clerk to tax said costs on the 191
day of S e p tem b er  , 19> 63 at 10:00 A . ^ /^ T j a ^ k s o n ,  M is s is s j

Attorney for

Subscribed and sworn to before me this / L  
at J a c k s o n , M is s is s ip p i .

C ou rt •' ___ / j  ...............

day of S e p te m b e r  ^ A. D. 19 63

Costs are hereby taxed in the amount of $ 2 6 3 . 8 7  this 19  th
of Septem ber , 19 6 3  , and that amount included in the judgment.

LQRYCE E . WHARIQH
Clerk.

■ ̂ / .L c c
b . n i c e ,  Deputy Clerk. 

NOTE: SEE REVERSE SIDE FOR AUTHORITIES ON TAXING COSTS.

By-



5 5
 5?

Witness Pees (computation, cf. 28 U. S. C. 1821 for statutory fees)

Name and Residence

Ruthie N e ll M cB eth  
srtha K irk land  
r s .  V ern a  S tron g  
r s . M ild re d  D earm an

Attendance 
Total 

lla y i______ Coat

4
3
2
2

16. 00 
12. 00 
8 . 00 
8 . 00

gubaietence 
Total 

D m ______ Coat

None
None
N one
None

348
324
208
208

Mlleaze
Total 

Miles Coat

27.84
25.92
17.28
17.28

Total Coat 
Kach Witneaa

43. 84 
37.92 
25. 28 
25.28

TOTAL 132.32

N O T I C E

Section 1924, Title 28, U. S. Code (effective September 1, 1948) provides:

“ Sec. 1924. Verification of bill of costs.
“Before any bill of costs is taxed, the party claiming any item of cost or disbursement shall 

attach thereto an affidavit, made by himself or by his duly authorized attorney or agent having 
knowledge of the facts, that such item is correct and has been necessarily incurred in the case and 
that the services for which fees have been charged were actually and necessarily performed.”

See also Section 1920 o f Title 28 which reads in part as follow s:
“A  bill of costs shall be filed in the case and, upon allowance, included in the judgment or decree.”

The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure contain the following provisions:

Rule 54 (d)
“Except when express provision therefor is made either in a statute of the United States or in 

these rules, costs shall be allowed as of course to the prevailing party unless the court otherwise 
directs; but cost against the United States, its officers, and agencies shall be imposed only to the 
extent permitted by law. Costs may be taxed by the clerk on one day’s notice. On motion served 
within 5 days thereafter, the action of the clerk may be reviewed by the court.”

Rule 6 (e)

“Whenever a party has the right or is required to do some act or take some proceedings within 
a prescribed period after the service of a notice or other paper upon him and the notice or paper is 
served upon him by mail, 3 days shall be added to the prescribed period.”

Rule 58 (In Part)

“ The entry of the judgment shall not be delayed for the taxing of costs.”

S3
£



27

Bill of Costs, Taxed, Filed



28

Motion to Vacate Order Assessing the 
Taxing of Costs

[C aption  O m itted ]

Comes n o w  th e  respondent , E. Jess Brown, by and 
through his undersigned attorney and moves the Court to 
vacate the order assessing the taxing of costs upon the 
respondent entered on the 19th day of September, 1963, and 
as reasons therefor, says:

1.

That there is no basis in fact or law for assessing the 
taxing of costs upon the respondent;

2.

And for other reasons to be shown upon hearing;

[Signatures and Certificate Omitted]



29

fC aption  O m itted ]

T h is  cause coming on to be heard on motion of R. Jess 
Brown to vacate the Order of this Court entered on Au­
gust 20, A. D., 1963, assessing and directing the taxing 
of certain costs against the respondent, R. Jess Brown, 
and the Court having heard argument of counsel for the 
respondent upon said motion, and the Court being advised 
by counsel representing the respondent that no objection 
was being made to any item of costs as set forth in the 
Bill of Costs filed in this cause on September 17, 1963 pur­
suant to the aforesaid Order of August 20, A. D., 1963 
and that no objection was being made to the total amount 
of the costs bill in the sum of $263.87 but that respondent 
was contending that the Order of the Court assessing costs 
against him in this cause should be vacated for the rea­
son that the respondent was fully and completely exon­
erated from any impropriety or wrong doing as reflected 
in the Findings of Fact and the Order of this Court en­
tered on August 20, A. D., 1963, and the Court having 
reviewed and considered its Findings of Fact entered in 
this cause on August 20, 1963 following the extended 
hearing on the citation which issued to the respondent 
pursuant to the Amended Order of this Court entered on 
April 20, 1963 to show cause why said respondent should 
not be disciplined for the matters therein stated, and the 
Court having further reviewed the Order entered in this 
cause on August 20, A. D., 1963, makes the following find­
ings, to-wit:

That this Court had no intention of completely, fully and 
finally exonerating the respondent, R. JessJELrown, .from 
any impropriety or wrong domainhtsXindings_j)f_Fa^

Order Assessing' the Respondent With Court Costs



30

and the Order entered thereon in this cause on August 20, 
A. I).. 1963, and does not now intend to completely” exon­
erate the respondent from any impropriety or wrong doing 
in the premises^ the Court found at that time and now 
finds that the respondent owed this Court the duty of 
disclosing to it on April 6, 1963 that he held a, “ retainer” 
from Ruthie Nell McBeth authorizing him to represent 
her as her attorney in the filing of the petition against the 
Leake County School Board but that the respondent made 
no attempt to make any explanation; the Court finds that 
forthrightness, candor and honesty with the Court at all 
times by an attorney at the bar of this Court very em­
phatically required the respondent to have made some 
explanation of the status of his employment by Ruthie 
Nell McBeth to the Judges of this Court on April 5, 1963 
and also on April 6, 1963, but respondent wholly failed to 
do so; that as a result of such conduct on the part of the 
respondent, the Court was impelled to spend approximately 
two and a half days hearing this matter.

That the Bill of Costs filed in this cause against the re­
spondent on September 17, 1963 is proper in all respects.

It is, therefore, ordered and adjudged by the Court that 
the motion to vacate the Order of this Court assessing court 
costs against the respondent, R. Jess Brown, be and the 
same is hereby overruled.

Ordered and  adjudged, this the 25th day of October, 
A. D., 1963.

Order Assessing the Respondent With Court Costs

H arold C ox

United States District Judge



31

Notice of Appeal

[C aption  Om itted ]

Notice is hereby given that R. Jess Brown, respondent in 
the above styled and numbered cause, hereby appeals to 
the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit 
from the order of the District Court of October 25, 1963, 
denying respondent’s motion to vacate that part of the 
Court’s order entered on August 20, 1963, which assessed 
the respondent with all costs to be taxed.

Dated: October 28,1963

[Signatures and Certificate Omitted]



32

[C aption  O m itted ]

Comes now R. Jess Brown, respondent, by and through 
his attorneys, and would with respect show unto the Court 
as follows:

That on the 20th day of August, 1963, this Court en­
tered its order discharging the citation against the respon­
dent at his cost; that the said order further provided that 
unless the costs should be paid within five days after the 
same were taxed, the right of respondent to practice in 
the United States District Court for the Southern District 
of Mississippi would be suspended until said costs were 
paid; that on September 19, 1963, the costs were taxed 
against the respondent in the amount of $263.87 ;

That on the 23rd day of September, 1963, respondent 
filed his motion with the Court praying that that part of the 
order which assessed the respondent with the costs be 
vacated, and that said motion has been overruled;

That the respondent being aggrieved by that part of the 
order of the Court which assessed the tax costs against him 
desires to appeal his cause to the United States Court of 
Appeals for the Fifth Circuit.

Wherefore, premises considered, respondent moves the 
Court for a stay of that part of the Court’s order assessing 
him with the costs, which were taxed on the 19th day of 
September, 1963, pending an appeal to the United States 
Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit.

Respondent’s Motion for Stay of Order Assessing
Respondent With Costs Pending Appeal

[Signatures and Certificate Omitted]



33

[C aption  O m itted ]

This cause this day coming on to be heard on the motion 
of Id. Jess Brown, respondent, for a stay of that portion of 
the Court’s order entered on the 20th day of August, 1963, 
which assessed said respondent with costs, pending an ap­
peal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth 
Circuit. And the Court being of the opinion that the motion 
should be sustained, it is, therefore,

Ordered and adjudged that that portion of the Court’s 
order which assessed the respondent with costs in the above 
styled and numbered cause be and the same is hereby 
stayed pending an appeal to the United States Court of 
Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, upon approval of bond on 
appeal.

O rdered and adjudged on this 28th day o f  October, 1963.

H arold C ox

United States District Judge

Order Staying Assessment of Costs Pending Appeal



34

Submission of $500*00 Cash Supersedeas 
Bond on Appeal

[C aption  O m itted ]

To the Clerk of said Court:

Dear Miss Wharton:

I submit herewith the sum of Five-hundred ($500.00) 
cash in United States currency as bond for stay of execu­
tion granted by this Court pending the appeal of this cause 
from this Court by the respondent, herein, to the United 
States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit;

It is understood that said sum is submitted, subject to 
all of the provisions therein provided for in connection 
with said action, in the 1963 Federal Rules of Civil Pro­
cedure, Rule 73-(d).

This 7th day of November, 1963.

/&/ R. J ess B row n  
125% N. Farish Street 
Jackson, Mississippi

Bond approved Nov. 7, 1963
/s /  H arold Cox 
U. S. District Judge



35

Order Extending Time for Filing Record on Appeal

[C aption  O m itted ]

It appearing to the Court that a notice of appeal has 
been tiled in the above styled cause, and that the Court Re­
porter has not had sufficient time in which to file the 
transcript of proceedings with the Clerk of this Court and 
that such time therefor should be extended; and good cause 
being shown therefor;

I t is , t h e r e f o r e , ordered b y  t h e  c o u r t , that the time for 
filing the record upon appeal and docketing this action in 
the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit 
be and the same is hereby extended to ninety days from the 
date of the first notice of appeal.

O rdered, this the 25 day of November, 1963.

H arold Cox
United. States District Judge



36

Respondent’s Designation of Contents of 
Record on Appeal

[C aption  O m itted ]

In conformance with Rule 75(a) of the Federal Rules of 
Civil Procedure, Respondent R. Jess Brown, hereby files 
the following as the designation of the contents of the rec­
ord on appeal which record will be prepared as provided 
for in Rule 23(a)(9) or 23(a) (10) of the Rules of the 
United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit:

1. Complaint 3/7/63

2. Motion to dismiss suit, or in alternative to remove 
name of Gweennell McBeth 4/5/63

3. Order on motion to dismiss suit as to Ruthie Nell 
McBeth and Gweennell McBeth 4/5/63

4. Order for Citation directed to R. Jess Brown 
4/6/63

5. Return by R. Jess Brown to Order of Citation, with 
affidavit of R. Jess Brown, 4/20/63

6. Amended Order for Citation 4/20/63

7. Transcript of Hearing on Plaintiffs Motion for 
Temporary Injunction 5/2/63

8. Transcript of Hearing on Citation for Contempt of 
R. Jess Brown with all exhibits

9. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law 8/20/63
10. Order 8/20/63
11. Bill of Costs, taxed, filed

12. Motion to vacate order assessing the taxing of costs



37

Respondent's Designation of Contents of Record on Appeal

13. Order assessing the respondent with court costs 
10/25/63

14. Notice of Appeal 10/28/63
15. Respondents’ Motion for Stay of Order assessing 

respondent with costs pending appeal 10/28/63
16. Order staying assessment of costs pending appeal 

10/28/63
17. Submission of $500.00 cash supersedeas bond on 

appeal 11/7/63
18. Order extending time for filing record on appeal 

11/26/63
19. This designation.

[Signatures and Certificate Omitted]



38

Transcript o f  Hearing

[C aption  Om itted ]

— 19—

A ppearances :

J udge L. A rnold P yle , Special Counsel appointed b y  
the Court; for the Petitioner.

W illiam  R . M in g , J r ., D errick  B ell  and  Carsie H a l l ; 
for the Respondent.

B e it  remembered  that on, to-wit, Saturday, July 27, 
1963, the above styled and numbered cause came on for 
hearing before the H onorable W illiam  H arold Cox, 
United States District Judge for the Southern District of 
Mississippi, on citation directed to R. Jess Brown, Attor­
ney, at Jackson, Mississippi, in the Jackson Division, when 
the following proceedings were had and entered of record:

(Rule Invoked.)

By Attorney Ming: My motion, Your Honor, is to dis-
-— 20—

continue this proceeding in light of the entry by Judge 
Mize of an order on July 5, 1963 dismissing the cause and 
the filing of a proper notice of appeal in the Fifth Circuit 
on or about July 12, 1963 so that the jurisdiction of the 
cause I suggest to the Court is now in the Fifth Circuit 
rather than in the United States District Court for the 
Southern District of Mississippi.

By the Court: Yes, it is my feeling that this is purely 
a collateral matter and is not a matter which in anywise or 
to any extent involves the issues between the parties in 
the proceeding covered by the order of Judge Mize. This is 
a collateral matter between counsel and the court involving 
the conduct of counsel in that case into which the court is



39

inquiring in this case and it’s my view that this Court al­
ways has jurisdiction of counsel over their conduct at all 
times and I will overrule your motion.

By Attorney Ming: In that event, Your Honor, we are 
prepared to proceed.

By the Court: All right.
By Judge Pyle: May it please the Court, we would like 

to call If . Jess Brown as an adverse witness in this proceed­
ing.

-— 21—

By the Court: All right.

Pi. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

R. J ess B ro w n , Respondent, called as an adverse wit­
ness, was sworn and testified as follows:

Cross Examination by Judge Pyle:

Q. State your name! A. My name is R. Jess Brown.
Q. Where do you live? A. I am at 5161 Gault Street in 

Jackson, Mississippi.
Q. How long have you resided at this address? A. I 

have been at this address now approximately about two 
years.

Q. What is your occupation? A. I am a lawyer, at least 
I practice law.

Q. How long have you been a practicing lawyer? A. 
Uh started practicing I believe in 1954.

Q. What is your age? A. I am fifty uh years of age, be 
fifty-one September the 2nd of this year.

Q. Prior to 1954 what was your occupation? A. ITh 
prior to 19 and 54 I was a school teacher.

Q. Prior to 1954 where did you reside? A. Uh 1954 I 
was residing here in Jackson in Mississippi but I went 
away to Texas Law School.



40

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

— 22—

Q. When did you go to Texas Law School! A. Uh I 
went to Texas Law School in it was in September I believe 
of 1951 I believe.

Q. Where were you living at the time you entered the 
law school in Texas! A. At the time I entered the law 
school in Texas I was living here in Jackson.

By the Court:

Q. What school is that in Texas! A. Texas Southern. 
Q. Texas Southern. Is that in connection with a school 

or is that just a law school. A. Uh Texas Southern Uni­
versity.

Q. Where is that! A. That’s located in uh Houston, 
Texas.

By Judge Pyle :
Q. How long had you been making your home in Jack- 

son, Mississippi prior to the time that you entered this 
law school in Texas in 1951! A. I first came to Jackson 
in 1948 to teach school here.

Q. In 1948! A. 1948, September, 1948.
Q. All right now did you actually move to Jackson in 

1948! A. Uh yes, I did, well, actually I had taught, I
—23—

came to Mississippi the first time in 1946. In 1946 I came 
here to teach at Alcorn College which is located in Alcorn, 
Mississippi. Then I got a job teaching here in the Jack- 
son Public Schools.

Q. Now do I understand by that statement that you first 
came into the State of Mississippi and established resi­
dency here in 1946! A. In 19, in the State of Mississippi!



41

Q. Yes. A. Uh in 19 and 40, nil 48 I would say because 
when 1 came to Jackson.

Q. Well, where were you making your home when you 
came to Alcorn College to teach in ’46! A. Well, uh before 
I came to Alcorn College I was teaching in Louisville, 
Kentucky.

Q. Where was your home, Jess! A. Uh my home, 
Louisville, Kentucky. Let me make a correction there. I 
left Louisville, Kentucky went to Prairie View College.

Q. Where is that? A. That’s located in uh Prairie View, 
Texas and I came from Prairie View College to uh uh 
Alcorn College to teach.

Q. How you spell this Prairie View College you are talk­
ing about? A. Uh Prairie View, Prairie I believe, it’s 
Prairie View like prairie, Prairie View College.

—24—
Q. Well, now what year was it that you were at Prairie 

View College? A. I was at Prairie View College from 19 
and 40, from 19 and 45 to 19 and 46.

Q. Were you on the faculty there? A. Yes sir.
Q. At that time and as I understand it prior to 1945 then 

you were in Louisville, Kentucky? A. Yes sir.
Q. What were you doing in Louisville, Kentucky! A. I 

was teaching in Louisville, Kentucky.
Q. In what capacity, in what kind of school? A. I was 

teaching in a high school, Central High School in Louis­
ville, Kentucky.

Q. And how long were you there? A. I was there from 
19 and, from 19 and 40 teaching there until 19 and 45.

Q. All right. Tell me where were you were born, Jess? 
A. I was born in a little town called Coffeeville, Kansas. 
Coffeeville, Kansas.

Q. And where did you go to elementary school? A. I 
went to elementary school in Scovie, Oklahoma.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



42

Q. And high school where did you go to high school? A. 
I went to high school in Scovie, Oklahoma.

—25—
By the Court:

Q. Did you finish law school at Houston? A. At uh 
Houston, Texas.

Q. I say did you finish? A. I did not complete uh I 
didn’t finish law school, I made uh about two years I 
believe.

Q. You went two years. Is that a three year course? A. 
It’s a three year course.

Q. Three years and you went two years? A. That’s 
right, uh I came to Alcorn actually in 19 and, I came to 
Alcorn College actually the first time in 1946 and that’s 
when I came here and took up living here in 1946.

By Judge Pyle :

Q. You took up living here in 1946? A. ’46.
Q. Did you rent or buy living quarters in Jackson, Mis­

sissippi at that time? A. In ’46?
Q. Yes. A. I hadn’t arrived in, I hadn’t arrived in 

Jackson in ’46.
Q. Well, did you make your home down near the college, 

Alcorn College, while you were teaching there? A. Yes 
sir.

Q. Did you live on the campus? A. I lived on the
- 2 6 -

campus and uh of course I owned no property but uh I 
lived in the teachers’ cottage and in the teachers’ facilities 
there.

Q. Do you have any family, Jess? A. Yes, I do.
Q. Wife and children? A. Yes.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



43

Q. How many children you have? A. I have one of my 
own and I also have a step-daughter.

Q. Well, now it’s still not clear to me when you left Al­
corn College and came to Jackson in ’48 where did you 
establish your residence? A. Well, when I left and came 
to Alcorn College to stay in Alcorn that’s when I estab­
lished my residence in Alcorn, that was m37 purpose in 
coming to Mississippi to Alcorn I planned to be there con­
tinuously and I did stay there two years from ’46 to ’48 
that was my intention.

Q. Now when you left Alcorn where did 3rou go to live 
to make your home and establish jmur residence? A. I 
came here to Jackson.

Q. What was your first address in Jackson that 3rou 
lived at? A. First address in Jackson I was living with 
nil a lady by the name of Mrs. Mooreman, I can’t remem­
ber, she lived on uh I don’t remember the street but it’s

2 7 -
out on it’s on this north side of town.

Q. You don’t remember the woman’s name or the street? 
A. Mrs. Mooreman is her name but I don’t remember the 
street.

Q. What’s her first name? A. I don’t remember her 
first name.

Q. Is she still living? A. Yes, she’s still living.
Q. Do 3Tou know where she lives now? A. Uh I pre­

sume if I checked the telephone directory uh I could uh I 
could uh you know give you that information but I can’t 
from the witness stand.

Q. Now have you lived in Jackson continuously since 
you came here in 1948? A. Uh yes, until I went to uh 
Texas, but I was still here living here but I went to Texas

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross



44

with the idea of coming back here, I went over there to go 
to school.

Q. I mean after you left Alcorn College, Jess, and came 
to Jackson in 1947 or 8 have you lived here continuously 
since that time? A. Since 19 and 48?

Q. Yes. A. Uh yes, up until I uh went to Vicksburg to 
practice over there.

Q. When did you go to Vicksburg? A. When I came
—2 8 -

over here back here in 1954 I went to Vicksburg and started 
practicing law in Vicksburg.

Q. Were you just rooming with this woman the Morman 
woman here in Jackson prior to the time that you went to 
the Texas Law School? A. Well, see I was rooming with 
Mrs. Moo reman, I was teaching at Lanier High School here 
in Jackson at that time and then I moved from there and 
I lived on Farish Street which was the 800 block on Farish 
Street and there uh I bought some furniture and furnished 
up a place on Farish Street on the second floor up over the 
cleaners there, Williams’ Cleaners.

Q. What is the closest date you can give us to the time 
that you returned to Mississippi from the law school that 
you attended in Texas? A. Let’s see, uh I think I left uh 
the law school sometime in uh May about the middle part 
of May, 19 and 54, and came to Vicksburg and set up an 
office in Vicksburg.

Q. You didn’t come back to Jackson, you went to Vicks­
burg ? A. That’s right.

Q. All right. Now when did you first take the examina­
tion before the State Board of Bar Examiners for admis­
sion to practice in Mississippi? A. I don’t recall the exact 
time. I think it must have been about uh I had been here 
about a year, I had been in Mississippi about a year.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



It. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross

—29—•
Q. How many times, Jess, did you take the examination 

for admission? A. Uh before I went to law school I took 
it about three times, three to four times. I took it one 
time after coming out of law school.

By the Court :

Q. You pass the first time? A. I passed the first time 
after coming out of law school?

Q. That’s what I mean? A. Yes sir.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Do you recall who were the members of the Board 
of Bar Examiners at that time? A. I do not recall at that 
time.

Q. At what session did you take the examination in the 
summer or winter? A. Took it in the summer of 19 and 
48.

Q. ’48 or ’54. I am talking about after you came from 
Texas? A. Oh, after I came back from Texas, naw, just a 
moment. After I came back from Texas I took the Bar in 
’53, that’s what happened, it was I think it was in February, 
1953, that I took the bar and went back to Texas after

—30—
taking the bar and taught at uh Texas College.

Q. At the time you made application to take the bar ex­
amination in 1953 you tell us now February, ’53 where did 
you show your official residence to be at that time? A. Uh 
I showed my official residence to be in Jackson because I 
was living on Pearl Street in Jackson, was living on Pearl 
Street when I left to go to take the bar examination, I kept 
my address on Pearl, I mean when I went to law school and



46

kept my address on Pearl Street when I went to law school 
here in Jackson, I was staying with a Mr. Perry Sanders.

Q. You didn’t have a wife and children with you at that 
time? A. I did not, wasn’t married at that time.

Q. Now Jess, I want you to tell us what the first contact 
you had with any of the plaintiffs in this case of Dian 
Hudson, et al versus the Leake County School Board which 
is Civil Action Number 3382 in the United States District 
Court here in Jackson? A. In the summer of 1961 I be­
lieve it was. At that time Mrs. Constance B. Motley for 
the legal defense was in the City of Jackson at that time, 
summer of ’61 as I recall.

Q. Where is she from? A. She is from New York.
Q. And she is a lawyer? A. She is a lawyer.

—31—
Q. All right. A. Uh she was here at that time because 

she was interested in some other cases that were in a 
process of being initiated or pending at the time, I don’t 
recall which, but that was her reason here in ’51 and I had 
an occasion to go—

Q. You mean ’61? A. ’61 right, in the summer of ’61, it 
was either June or July, I think it was either the latter part 
of June or early July, I don’t recall exactly. I had occasion 
to go to the office of Mr. Medger Evers, that is the NAACP 
office, I had been there a number of times so I had an 
occasion to go there and I went out and came back there 
and when I went back in uh Mr. Medger Evers uh then the 
field secretary for the NAACP when I walked in on this 
particular day he said to me well come in Mr. Brown, how 
are you, says we have some people here that want to talk 
to you and also want to talk to Mrs. Motley. This case 
that we were involved in Mrs. Motley was involved in at 
the time I was also involved in it with her associated with 
her at the time so I met these people through Mr. Evers.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



47

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

By the Court:
Q. Let’s be specific. What people are yon talking about? 

A. XJh I met a number of people.
Q. Well I am not interested in anybody except who are 

connected with this suit? A. Well, they are people con­
nected with this suit.

— 32—

The Court: All right.

By Judge Pyle :
Q. Who are they now the ones that you met there first 

in Medger Evers’ office on this occasion you are talking 
about? A. The people that I met at that time some of them 
were plaintiffs in this case today.

Q. We want to know their names? A. At that time I 
could not I didn’t know I was introduced to each one of 
them but I do not remember their names.

Q. You don’t remember a single name of the persons 
present there that were presented to you that day as being 
people interested in this particular case? A. Well, some 
of the plaintiffs we have here today as witnesses were 
among them that were there.

Q. Who? A. I just don’t recall their names but I know 
them by face.

Q. Well, after they were introduced to you these people 
what was said as to who they were or where they were 
from or what they wanted? A. Yes, uh Mr. Evers said 
to me said now these are some people from Leake County, 
they want to bring a lawsuit against the Leake County 
School Board to desegregate the public schools in Leake 
County and they want to talk to you and also want to



48

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

— 33—

Mrs. Motley and after that statement was made I walked 
from the reception room into the private office, Mr. Evers’ 
private office, and conferred with Mrs. Motley for a while 
on the other matters that we were interested in. Then 
after that Mrs. Motley and I came out and went into an­
other room which adjoins Mr. Medger’s office, it is a larger 
room that accommodates more people than in the reception 
room and easier to confer so we went in this other room 
and these people—

Q. We went in there. Now who went in there! A. All 
right, I went in there, uh Mrs. Motley, also these people 
that I was introduced to that day.

Q. How many of them were they! A. I would say there 
was about as near as I can recall maybe ten or twelve, I 
don’t recall.

By the Court:

Q. Was Ruthie Nell McBeth in that group! A. As near 
as I can recall I think she was not in that group.

By Judge P yle:

Q. Was Bertha Kirkland in there! A. Uh I don’t recall 
Bertha Kirkland being in that group.

Q. You know who these people are Ruthie Nell McBeth 
and Bertha Kirkland do you not! A. Yes, I do. Those 
are the two that uh that testified in this cause.

— 3 U -
Q. On May the 11th here this year! A. That’s right.
Q. And can you tell us whether or not either or both of 

those people were in this group that went with you to the 
conference there at Medger Evers’ office with attorney Mot­
ley on this date! A. Now as I say I had never seen these



49

people before in my life to my knowledge, if I liad seen 
them I don’t recall, and uli whether nil Mrs. McBeth or her 
mother was in there at the time I just can’t recall whether 
they were or not. I can’t tell this Court they were there.

By the Court:

Q. How many times did you have a personal contact with 
Ruthie Nell McBeth prior to the bringing of that suit 
against the Leake County School Board! A. Uh frankly I 
had no personal contact with Ruthie Nell McBeth prior to 
her having come into this uh this issue.

Q. Nobody had ever introduced you to her? A. No sir.
Q. You had no personal contact with her? A. No sir, I 

had no personal contact with her. I had never seen her to 
my knowledge until we were in the deposition hearing you 
know in uh in uh in Carthage that’s the first time I had 
ever.

By Judge- Pyle:

Q. That was in May, 1963! A. That was in May, 1963, 
the time we had the deposition over there that was the first 
time that I seen her.

Q. It was after the order had been entered by this Court 
for you to come in and show cause why certain things hap­
pened in the filing of this Civil Action 3382, is that right? 
A. Yes sir, that was the first time. I had no personal con­
tact with her prior to that time.

Q. Well, tell us as brief as you can what took place in 
the conference at Medger Evers’ office when you say that 
you had your first contact with anybody from Leake 
County concerning this suit? A. Uh as to what was said 
there one or more of the persons spoke at the time. I was

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



50

sitting at the table. Mrs. Motley was standing behind the 
table the table in front of a number of chairs out in front. 
As nearly as I can recall as I say I can't say who said what 
but I do remember the words from either one or more that 
we are interested in doing something about our situation in 
Leake County, 1 mean these are not the exact words but 
this is the substance what was said. She said, I said she, 
she or he whoever was speaking, said they closed our 
schools in Leake County, at least closed our Harmony 
School Center I believe in Leake County and of course

— 36—
we have to go elsewhere to school and we have made at­
tempts to try to get that school back and we haven’t been 
able to do so. Since we haven’t been able to do that we 
have decided that we want to bring a desegregation suit, 
they didn’t use the word desegregation but they did say 
that we want to bring a suit to enter into the uh the other 
school available there which was the white school or schools 
at that time. Now that as nearly as I can recall is what 
was said. In response to that question Mrs. Motley stated 
that uh to the group that uh we cannot uh actually uh bring 
any any action to uh bring any action to make them put 
your school back, we can’t do that, uh either she said we 
can’t do it or it would not be feasible to do so, I don’t re­
member the exact words, but she stated that uh in view of 
the fact that you have indicated that you want to uh to 
bring a suit to go into the other school or schools available 
that is desegregation suit, I don’t know whether they used 
the word desegregation themselves but that’s exactly what 
they meant when they made the statement, she said we will 
uh represent you if that’s what you want to do, we will 
represent you in your attempt to desegregate the public 
schools in Leake County.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



51

Q. What actually happened there, Jess, was that these 
people told you all that they had in the consolidated school 
program which the legislature had brought about by laws 
which had been enacted put on the statute books of the

- 37-

State of Mississippi consolidated their school, the Har­
mony School, with other schools in that vicinity and that 
they were trying to get their Harmony School reopened. 
That was what the conversation started about wasn’t it? 
A. That was what the conversation actually, well, that is 
what it started about but that in addition to they said this 
we have made attempts to try to get our Harmony School 
back, we have made those attempts, we have not been able 
to do so, they have done nothing, they have ignored us, 
therefore, since they have ignored us we can’t get it back 
we now wish to desegregate the they didn’t I don’t know 
whether they used the word desegregate but they indicated 
in their language that they wanted to desegregate the 
schools in Leake County, that’s what we want to do.

Q. Did any of those private citizens there present at 
that time say to you or attorney Motley that we want to 
employ you as our attorneys to file a lawsuit for us? A. 
At that time they said we have come to you, matter of fact 
they said Mrs. Motley we heard you were in town, we have 
driven up here for the purpose of talking to you and also 
they said as a matter of fact I sat there at the time, she 
says we want you to represent us or take any action that 
you think that uh should be taken with respect to desegre­
gating the schools in Leake County.

Q. What did she say to these people about who was to
— 38-

pay her fees for handling of the representation of them in

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



52

a suit of this kind? A. Well, at that time there was no 
mention of fees at that time.

Q. You said a moment ago that Attorney Motley told 
them that she could or we could not represent them in an 
attempt to get their school back but that we could repre­
sent and would represent them in an integration suit? A. 
That’s principally what was uh.

Q. Now who was she talking about when she was talking 
about we would represent them? A. Well, it’s difficult for 
me to determine what she was talking about when she said 
we. I don’t know whether she had in mind herself when she 
referred to we or whether she had in mind uh some of the 
others associated with her in the legal defense staff, I don’t 
know what she meant by we.

Q. Legal defense staff of whom? A. The of the 
NAACP.

By the Court:

Q. You don’t know whether she was including you in 
that editorial we or not then? A. At that time I uh I uh I 
don’t know that she was. We were working we had worked 
together on prior cases. We had worked together in prior 
prior cases over a long you know good period of time in 
other cases and uh so at the time uh Mr. Evers said uh

— 39—
when I came in that these people are up here they wanna 
talk to you and also wanna talk to Mrs. Motley and uh so 
there was no there was no words you understand at that 
time while these people were there, in other words she 
didn’t turn around and say that I mean you you know when 
she used the word we.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



53

By Judge Pyle:

Q. All right, now—

The Court: Let me ask him this.

Q. Was there anything said or done in this meeting that 
you have been talking about that occurred on this occasion 
that you have mentioned to lead you to believe that that 
this woman Ruthie Nell McBeth was trying at that time to 
make any contact with you or employ your services in this 
Leake County case? A. No suh. Uh the name of Ruthie 
Lee McBeth did not did not come up, no particular names 
came up at the time. I had just been introduced to these 
people for instance like you come into a room and meet ten 
or twelve people and they say this is Mrs. so and so Mr. 
Brown so and so and you don’t retain the names so there 
was no discussion with respect to Ruthie Nell McBeth.

Q. Well, that’s all I am interested in. Frankly, this other 
business about who you met and what was said and so

forth is right beside the mark so far as I am concerned. 
I want to know about this contact between you and Ruthie 
Nell McBeth. A. Yes sir.

By Judge P yle :

Q. What was furnished, if anything, in the way of docu­
ments to you or Attorney Motley in this meeting at that 
time! A. At that time there were no to my knowledge 
there were no documents or anything reduced to writing 
at that time, only these oral discussions.

Q. Now you told the Court a few minutes ago that you 
never say Ruthie Nell McBeth prior to the time that this

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



54

complaint which is in evidence as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1 for 
Identification was filed? A. That’s uh that’s correct.

Q. On March 7, 1963. Would you tell the Court please 
then why it was that you included her name among those 
of the plaintiffs as listed in this complaint? A. Uh I in­
cluded her name among those that were listed in the com­
plaint because of the fact that I had a written uh author­
ized agreement signed by Ruthie Nell McBeth authorizing 
me to bring this action. That’s why I did it.

Q. All right. Now when did you obtain any written 
authorization from Ruthie Nell McBeth to use her name

—41—
and to represent her and her child in this proceeding? A. 
I am trying to recall.

The Court: Show him the contract, Judge Pyle. 

A. I don’t remember the exact uh date.

By Judge Pyle :

Q. I show you here Respondent’s Exhibit 1 now in evi­
dence in this proceeding and ask you to look at that and 
tell us whether or not that’s what you are talking about 
that you had as your authority? A. This is the instru­
ment I am talking about, yes sir.

Q. All right. Now when did you obtain that instrument? 
A. This instrument was mailed, no, it wasn’t mailed, this 
instrument was turned over to Mr. Medger Evers, let me 
think about this a moment about this instrument. Now you 
asked me when it was delivered to uh.

Q. When did you first see it? A. First when I first saw 
it this instrument, I drew this instrument.

Q. All right when did you draw it? A. I drew this in­
strument sometime prior to December the 20th, 1961.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



55

Q. And wliat did yon do with it when you had drawn it? 
A. After I drew this instrument, uh correction on that, nh 
I sent it by Mr. Evers I said, that’s not correct.

By the Court:

Q. What’s not correct? A. I made a statement back 
there just a moment ago that this instrument was sent by 
Mr. Medger Evers to Leake County. That isn’t true.

Q. Well, that was a pretty positive statement. Let’s just 
 ̂don’t be backing and fiddling, I want to know what the facts 
are and I don’t want to know anything else? A. All right 
sir, I am trying to give them to you as much as I can. I 
took this instrument, drew this instrument prior to Decem­
ber 20, 1961 and carried this instrument along with other 
instruments to Leake County, drove to Leake County and 
carried these instruments to Leake County sometime prior 
to December the 20th, 1961. Other words I drove to Leake 
County and carried these instruments.

By Judge P yle:

Q. All right now to whom did you deliver them? A. Uh 
when we got as as a matter of fact when we got there uh 
a number of people were present including some who had 
been in the office that day and including some of the plain­
tiffs that we have on this uh in this lawsuit they were pres­
ent uh and they met in a church. I went down there and 
carried this instrument. When I got there uh I had uh 
gotten some information as a matter of fact well I carried 
this down there, I carried this instrument down there.

Q. Who was with you at that time? A. Mr. Medger 
Evers was with me.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



56

Q. Was it day time or night time? A. Uh it was in the 
night time, must have been about eight o’clock.

Q. And you went to some church? A. Went to a church. 
Other words all these uh plaintiffs were supposed to meet 
I had prior information that these plaintiffs would be at 
the church and we went down there.

Q. What was the name of the church? A. I don’t recall 
the name of it. It’s just a kind of a country church.

Q. Out from Carthage in Leake County? A. Uh out 
from Carthage in Leake County.

Q. All right when you got there and you found these 
people there what did you do that night? A. When I got 
there and found these people I told them that I had re­
ceived a petition and this petition uh had uh approxi­
mately something like 53 petitioners on it that had been 
mailed to my office for the purpose of mailing to the Leake 
County School Board. Other words the first petition that 
was sent to the Leake County School Board was mailed to 
my office, it came to my office with the petitioners on there.

Q. And when did that come to your office? A. That 
came to my office prior to uh December the 20th, 19 and 61

— 44—
and also prior to the time that I drew this retainer. I did 
not draw this retainer until after I had received the peti­
tion.

By the Court:

Q. I infer from what you say that that petition that you 
refer to with 54 names on it was a petition as these people 
refer to to get their school back wasn’t it? A. That was 
a that was a petition as near as I can recall to desegregate 
the public schools of Leake County.

Q. It was? A. Yes sir.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



57

1‘. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross 

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Let me show you here, Jess, Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 3 now in evidence in this proceeding and ask you to 
look at that and tell us whether or not that is the petition 
or a copy of the petition you are talking about!

Attorney Ming: Excuse me. What was the ref­
erence ?

Judge Pyle: It’s Court Exhibit Number 3.

A. This is the petition which has approximately uh.

The Court: Judge, if you will stand back from him 
maybe he will speak a little louder and counsel can 
hear you.

A. This is a petition which has approximately uh as

nearly as I can recall this is a copy of the petition that I 
received through the mail at my office, received in the mail 
at my office, this is a copy of the original petition. As a 
matter of fact there were two originals that I received.

By Judge P yle :
Q. But it’s your best judgment that this instrument which 

is now Court Exhibit Number 3 in this proceeding is the 
petition which you were talking about a minute ago that 
you had received from some 53 people or bearing the sig­
natures of some 53 people! A. That’s correct sir, that’s 
correct.

Q. All right now after you received this petition— A. 
(Interrupting) Yes sir.



58

Q. (Continuing) exhibit 3 what happened to it with 
regards to the names on it! A. After receiving this peti­
tion in my office I got the petition, as a matter of fact I had 
not heard from this case anymore from the time we had 
that conference nh with respect to any of these people uh 
that is—■

Q. (Interrupting) That’s the conference in the summer 
July or August, 1961? A. That’s right, 1961.

Q. You hadn’t heard anymore until when? A. Not from 
any of these people because I hadn’t talked to them or 
written them personally. Well, I got this petition in the

—4 6 -
mail at my office with these people on it. That’s what I 
received. I received it prior to drawing this instrument.

Q. All right now after you received this petition Exhibit 
3 did or not a number of those people notify you to take 
their names off of the petition, they didn’t want any part 
of it? A. I never received a notice from any person at 
all uh any of these all of these 53 people prior to my hav­
ing made a second trip to Leake County uh which was long 
after these names appeared in the paper. The only infor­
mation the only notice I had that anybody had been with­
drawn from this petition is only what I read in the news­
paper. I had no direct notice from anybody, nobody called 
me, nobody wrote me, only thing I knew everyday it come 
out in the paper that maybe one or two had dropped off. 
I did not get a notice even from the Board or anyone else.

Q. I show you here what purports to be photostatic 
copy of this same petition Exhibit Number 3 now in evi­
dence in this proceeding and ask you to take a look at 
that and tell the Court whether or not you had information 
that those people whose names are blotted out on this peti­
tion had requested that their names be removed from the

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross



59

petition Exhibit Number 3 prior to the time that you went 
to the church in Leake County with this instrument here 
which is now in evidence as Exhibit Number Respondent’s 
Exhibit Number If

—47—
Attorney Ming: Excuse me just a moment, Mr. 

Brown. May I see this! I will object to that ques­
tion, Your Honor, on the ground that this document 
so far as I know has not been identified by anybody. 
It was referred to by Mr. Pyle as what juirports to 
be a copy of Court’s Exhibit 3 but upon examination 
it is apparent that it is not such a copy because it is 
substantially different and I show it to the Court 
to show it is not a copy of Court’s Exhibit 3. It con­
tains strikeovers and blots with respect to signatures 
I assume and there are not such strikeovers or blots 
on Court’s Exhibit 3.

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, that’s just the 
point I am making. Anybody can look at the exhibit 
and see that it is a copy. It starts out with the same 
name at the top of it, it’s the same language in the 
body of it, but what I am asking this witness now is 
whether or not he knew that those same people whose 
names have been blotted out on the copy of this 
petition were no longer interested in being a party 
to the petition or any proceeding for the integra­
tion of the schools in Leake County.

The Court: I will overrule the objection.
Attorney Ming: The basis for my objection, Your

Honor, as I stated is that no witness, this witness or 
nobody else, has identified the document which Judge 
Pyle has just asked Mr. Brown about.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



60

The Court: It appears here as Respondent’s Ex­
hibit 1 the one he is asking him about with all the 
blot outs on it.

Attorney Ming: I suggest, Tour Honor, that that 
reference to which Your Honor refers Respondent’s 
Exhibit 1 has not been put on in this proceeding. 
That document has not before been produced in this 
proceeding and not identified by anybody, there is no 
indication in this record as to what it consists of.

The Court: Well, it’s perfectly apparent to the 
Court as a practical matter that it is a picture of 
what appears here as Court’s Exhibit Number 3 and 
I will let him ask the question. I do agree though 
that that white photograph is not an official part of 
the record and probably should be marked for iden­
tification with your question.

Judge Pyle: I want to ask him a question or two 
and see if he couldn’t identify it as being a copy.

The Court: He is on cross examination. Go ahead.

By Judge Pyle :

Q. Isn’t this a copy of Exhibit Number 3? A. Could
—m—

I take a look at it please! It’s apparent it appears to be a 
copy of Exhibit Number 3, it appears to be.

Q. Did you not produce this document that is not before 
you with these names stricken in connection with the taking 
of the depositions of Ruthie Nell McBetli and Bertha Kirk­
land in Carthage! A. Uh this one here!

Q. Yes. A. This particular one! Uh I know there was 
one a copy introduced and I assume this is the same copy.

The Court: Let that white photostat be marked for 
identification so we are not saying this and that be­

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross



61

cause it will be more apparent to the record. Just 
mark it for identification.

The Clerk: Being marked Court’s Number 4 for 
Identification.

(Document referred to marked Court’s Exhibit 
Number 4 for identification.)

By Judge Pyle :
Q. What I am interested in, Jess, is trying to find out 

from you whether or not prior to the time that you made 
your trip to Carthage with the instrument which is in evi­
dence as Respondent’s Exhibit 1 in this proceeding you 
did not have information that many of these people whose 
names were on the petition the exhibit Court's Exhibit 
Number 3 had expressed a desire to have their names with-

—50—
drawn from that petition! A. I did not have that infor­
mation, no suh.

Q. You hadn’t ! A. No suh.
Q. And I ask you also if as a matter of fact you had not 

received a second petition in different language in the body 
of the petition with fewer names on it prior to the time that 
you made the trip with Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1 to 
the church in Leake County! A. Yes sir.

Q. Look at this document here. Didn’t you receive a copy 
of that petition that you hold in your hand now! A. I did, 
I received a copy of this petition.

Q. All right. A. With a lesser number on it.
Q. And you look on that and see if you can find Ruthie 

Nell McBeth’s name on that petition! A. I do not see uh 
Ruthie Nell McBeth’s name in that petition.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



62

Judge Pyle: If Your Honor please, we would like 
to offer in evidence this document as the second peti­
tion which counsel or the witness says he received in 
connection with this matter.

The Court: All right, show it to counsel.
- 5 1 -

Judge Pyle: You have a copy of this.
Attorney Ming: I have a copy.
The Court: All right, that petition may be ad­

mitted in evidence and marked Court’s Exhibit 5.
(Received and marked Court’s Exhibit 5.)

The Court: All right.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Can you tell the Court the approximate date that you 
received this petition Court’s Exhibit Number 5 now in 
evidence! A. I don’t recall the approximate date that I 
received this petition but it was sometime prior to the time 
that I mailed it to the uh Board to the Leake County Board.

Q. Would you please count the names on that document 
and state the number you see there! A. There are 15 
names accordingly to my calculation, 15 names is what I 
count.

Q. Now who drew this petition Court’s Exhibit 5! A. 
I drew that petition.

Q. All right and who obtained these signatures on this 
petition if you know, Exhibit 5! A. Well, on this petition

—52—
uh this petition was sent to Leake County. It was either- 
sent or carried to Leake County.

Q. By whom! A. Uh I either carried it to Leake County

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



63

personally myself or either sent it nil through Mr. Medger 
Evers’ office. I don’t recall which.

Q. But who requested of you to prepare this petition 
Exhibit Number 5? A. Well, as a matter of fact when I 
read, I had my first petition with 53 names on it. As I 
said—

Q. You are talking about there now exhibit number 
Court’s Exhibit Number 3! A. That’s right. Here’s the 
situation I will tell you why I did it. The first petition had 
53 names something like 53, I don’t know, some 51 or 53 
names on it. We filed I filed this I mailed this iietition to 
the Leake County School Board.

Q. Well did you prepare this first petition Exhibit Num­
ber 3! A. I did not prepare the first petition. I prepared 
the second petition and I was trying to answer your ques­
tion as to why I prepared the second petition, I am trying 
to tell it as near as possible and give it to you as accurately 
as I can why I did it. Uh after I had mailed this first peti­
tion to the Leake County School Board and some day or 
two later names appeared in the paper of people who had

—53—
withdrawn from the lawsuit, for instance maybe one day 
there would be two or three off, another day in the news­
paper I would see some others off and that continued for 
possibly maybe several weeks and uh finally no longer was 
there any uh newspaper accounts of any names off coming 
off.

Q. Now could you tell us right at that point when it was 
that you mailed this first petition exhibit number Court’s 
Exhibit Number 3 to the Leake County School Board! A. 
How is that now?

Q. When did you mail this petition Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 3 to the Leake County School Board? A. I mailed this

II. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



64

petition to the Leake County School Board I don’t recall 
exactly but I think I got a notation here February the 23rd 
mailed to the Board February the 23rd, 1963.

Q. All right is that your handwriting up there with that 
notation? A. That is my handwriting with that notation 
mailed to the uh mailed to the Board February the 23rd 
according to my notation that’s when that’s when it was 
mailed.

Q. And you do recognize and tell the Court now that this 
is your writing on Court’s Exhibit Number 3 stating 
“mailed to the Board February 23, 1963” , is that right? 
A. February the 23rd, that’s my handwriting all right.

Q. There is no question in your mind about that being
—54—

your handwriting? A. I sent it registered return, I have 
a registered return receipt that would show when it was 
received, I don’t have it with me.

The Court: He didn’t ask you that, Jess.

A. All right, I am sorry. That is my writing.

By Judge P yle :

Q. Now you were telling us a minute ago that after you 
had mailed in this Court’s Exhibit Number 3 on February 
23rd, 1963 that certain information came to you about 
people wanting their names off the petition? A. That’s 
right.

Q. That caused you to prepare Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 5 now in evidence, is that right? A. After having read 
these names in the paper and I had not received a reply 
from the Leake County, as a matter of fact when I sent 
the petition to the Leake County School Board I had a

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



65

letter in there in there uh sending it to the Board and 
telling the Board that I had been authorized by these per­
sons whose names appeared to uh send this petition to the 
Board so the Board was on notice that I was the one 
that was representing them but I never got any informa­
tion from the Board no notice from the Board or no notice 
from any of the petitioners that they wished to withdraw 
or had withdrawn. The only notice I had was what I had 
received from a newspaper. I was attempting to avoid

•—55—
uh doing uh anything further with respect to any who may 
have withdrawn I didn't know anything about so what I 
did I just drew a new petition second petition and either 
I uh carried it this or caused it to be carried to Leake 
County uh for the purpose of any of those who wanted to 
put their names on this petition to the Board could do so.

Q. You didn’t just take it to Leake County, you took it 
to somebody in Leake County didn’t you! A. It was either 
I either carried it or caused it to be taken to a a I think it 
was sent it was sent to Leake County, I believe that’s the 
way it was sent to Leake County.

Q. But to whom in Leake County? You sent it to some 
person didn’t you? A. Yes.

Q. Who was it? A. Uh I turned this over to Mr. Medger 
Evers as near as I can recall and he actually* was repre­
senting these people, he was the one that contacted me, 
he is the man that carried it down there and uh this peti­
tion here I don’t know who actually I don’t know who 
got it to be frank with you, right now 1 can’t recall who 
actually got this petition in their hand.

Q. Well, can you give us the approximate date that you 
prepared and delivered this instrument Court’s Exhibit 
Number 5 to Medger Evers or someone else to be taken

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner•—Cross



66

to Leake County? A. I just don’t recall. I know it was
—56—

subsequent to the time I prepared this one but I uh and 
prior to the time that I sent it to the Board but I don’t 
recall the exact time.

Q. Prior to the time that you sent which one to the 
Board now? A. I sent both of these petitions to the Board. 
I prepared this petition.

Q. Exhibit 5? A. Exhibit 5 subsequent to my having 
received uh having filed this petition, this is the second 
petition.

Q. All right, Exhibit Number 5, Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 5 was prepared by you and placed in the hands of 
someone subsequent to the time that you mailed Court’s 
Exhibit Number 3 to the Board on February 23, 1963, is 
that right? A. And after it appeared in the newspaper 
that people were taking their names off off of the list.

Attorney Ming: Just a moment, Your Honor. I 
understood Judge Pyle to say after you mailed it on 
February 23rd, 1963. Mr. Brown’s testimony was 
that he mailed it February, 1963.

Judge Pyle: It isn’t so. It—
Attorney Ming: (Interrupting) Judge, I regret 

that the record will show that he testified that he 
mailed Court’s Exhibit 3 in February, 1962.

—5 7 -
Judge Pyle: Well, I will stand on the record, Your 

Honor.
The Court: I didn’t so understand it. I thought 

he said he put the notation on there, what is the 
notation.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



67

Attorney Ming: The notation!
The Court: Yes.
Attorney Ming: The notation, Your Honor, is 

February 23rd, 1963. The witness testified that was 
his handwriting but his testimony was he mailed it in 
February, ’62.

The Court: I don’t believe that’s correct. I will 
overrule your objection. I understood him to say 
’63 and the record, I mean the exhibit shows it’s in 
his own handwriting as I understand it February 
23rd, 1963 and I so understood him to say.

A. Well, as a matter of fact I said this when lie asked me 
about this—

By the Court:

Q. Is that correct or not! A. This is correct mailed 
February 23rd, 1963.

Q. All right, go ahead. A. But that that’s what’s on
—58—

here but that’s not not when I mailed it.
Q. What are the facts, that’s what I want to know! A. 

The facts is that was mailed February in February, 19 
and 62.

Q. February 23rd! A. How’s that!
Q. You want to change it to say that you mailed it one 

year before you show that you mailed it? A. That’s cor­
rect.

Q. Is that right? A. As a matter of fact here’s what 
happened about this. This was put down here in ’63, I will 
tell you why, that was not put doven at the time I mailed 
it but after the citation order uh was you know entered 
against me to show cause I went back myself and checked

R. Jess Brown— for Petitioner-—Cross



68

the a return receipt that I had received from the Board 
showing that I think they accepted it on the 24th and I 
turned the receipt over to see when I actually sent the 
letter.

Q. Well, you are saying that date is wrong, that’s what 
you want to do? A. That date was uh inadvertently 
placed on there, it’s wrong. It was ’62.

The Court: All right, go ahead.

—59—
By Judge Pyle:

Q. Who told you to put your date ’62 on there? A. No 
one.

Q. Your Attorney Ming here or— A. Nobody told me 
to put it on there. I was only uh checking myself to see 
when I sent it and I just wrote it down there. Nobody 
told me anything to put down and it was not put on there 
at the time that it was mailed you understand, it was put 
on there in ’63.

The Court: I understand.

A. It was put on there after the citation order.

The Court: But you have said it several times it 
was ’63 and you give me the impression you are not 
very sure what you are saying when you go and 
make a very positive statement and then come back 
along, you are a lawyer you understand and I don’t 
accord you the right to make a very positive state­
ment and then come along a few minutes later and 
say you made a mistake so let’s find out what the 
facts are.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



69

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross 

By Judge P yle :
Q. AH right now after you placed this Court’s Exhibit 

Number 5 in the hands of someone you do not know whom 
what when was the next time you saw it! A. Well, the 
next time I saw it it was brought back to me uh delivered

—60—
to me by Mr. Evers.

Q. And when was that! A. That was uh sometime I 
don’t recall, I don’t remember when he brought it back 
but it was before that I sent it to the school board, I don’t 
remember the date but it was before I sent it to the school 
board.

Q. And you don’t have any records in your office to re­
flect when you sent this document Exhibit Number 5 to 
the School Board! A. Uh I have a registered return re­
ceipt I think that would show when I sent this document 
to the School Board.

Q. Do you have it with you now? A. It was sometime in 
August I believe.

Q. Do you have it with you now? A. I am not certain 
whether I have it with me here now or not.

Q. Could you look and see if the Court would give you 
permission? A. I could.

Judge Pyle: If Your Honor please, we would like 
to see if he has got a return receipt showing when 
he mailed it.

A. It may be here or it may be in my office.

The Court: Where would you have to go to make 
your check?

—61—
A. I would have to go to uh my office on Farish Street.



70

Q. You would have to go to your office! A. Yes sir.

Judge Pyle: I thought you had a brief case here.
The Court: Well, you can do that when we take a 

recess so get to something else please sir.
Judge Pyle: All right sir.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Would you take a look again at this Court’s Exhibit 
Number 5 and tell us whether you see the name of Bertha 
Kirkland, Euthie Nell McBeth’s mother, on this petition? 
A. I do not see her on that petition.

Q. Well, when this petition Court’s Exhibit Number 5 
came back into your hands after it had been circulated you 
knew at that time that Euthie Nell McBeth was not one of 
those whose name appeared on the petition and you had not 
contacted her, she had not contacted you and you had no 
information that she wanted to participate in a lawsuit to 
integrate the Leake County Schools did you? A. At that 
time the name of Euthie Nell McBeth never came to me. 
I didn’t uh uh I didn’t know her from the rest of them. The 
name didn’t I had it did not register on me.

Q. Up until that time? A. The name of Euthie Nell
—62—

McBeth didn’t register on me.
Q. Didn’t register at all? You had no information that 

she wanted to employ you to represent her in a proceeding 
to integrate the Leake County schools did you? A. I had 
the I had the retainer which uh she had signed prior to 
sending the first petition and I stood on the fact that I did 
have this retainer. As a matter of fact I filed uh her the 
suit in her name based upon the on the retainer that I had.

jR . Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



71

R. Jess Rroum—for Petitioner—Cross

Q. All right now— A. (Interrupting) Also I notice 
that her that her name I never did see her name in the news­
paper, well, I mean 1 didn’t know her name particularly but 
I mean later I discovered I checked some clippings which I 
had saved I didn’t see her name where she had withdrawn.

Q. But why did you use her name on the retainer if you 
had this subsequent petition Court’s Exhibit Number 5 
circulated and you found that her name wasn’t on it? A. 
Uh I made a second trip to Leake County. I made that 
trip to Leake County before I filed the second petition. I 
sent notice that I was coming to Leake County to uh and 
for all of the persons interested in the suit to meet with 
the persons interested in the suit to find out who wanted 
to continue in the lawsuit because I wanted to be that’s the 
thing the thing that I am in now was the thing I was trying .

By the Court:

Q. Did you check with all of these other people other 
than Ruthie Nell— A. (Interrupting) You see.

Q. Just a minute. A. Oh I am sorry.
Q. Did you check with all of these other people other 

than Ruthie Nell McBeth to see whether or not they still 
wanted you to represent them? A. Well, what happened 
was uh, Your Honor, I sent notice that I was coming to 
Leake County to talk to these people and my reason for 
going was to try to find out who wished to remain in the 
lawsuit or who wished to get off of the lawsuit because I 
didn’t know, I was confused, I had no notice from anybody 
directly authorizing me to get off.

Q. But you felt like that something had happened which



72

necessitated your being a little bit more sure about exactly 
who did then want you to represent them? A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you write to Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. Did I 
write to her?

Q. Yes, did you write her, did you give her notice that 
you were coming to try to find out whether or not she still 
wanted you to represent her? A. I didn’t give her uh uh 
notice by letter but she evidently evidently she received

—6 4 -
notice. There’s other testimony I could give you that would 
let you know she had notice.

Q. Well, I wish you would. All right, go ahead. A. Now 
at the time that I went out there the name of Ruthie 
Nell McBeth didn’t stand out to me at all. When I walked 
in there were a lot there were a number of people this at 
this time we were at a residence house, I don’t recall the 
name of the person’s house we were in, but in this resident 
house now these people lived uh a good distance apart out 
there, some maybe would be a mile or two miles apart, uh 
telephone communication is a little difficult out there and 
uh so I had to go out there give a notice early, maybe a 
day or two ahead, that I would be out there. When I got 
out there there were a number of people there must have 
been I will say maybe 20 or 22 or 23 people who were there 
that night sitting around the wall. When I went out there I 
carried with my my original list of the 53 uh 52 or 53 per­
sons on the original petition, I carried that along with me.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. You talking about Court’s Exhibit Number 3 now? 
A. I had a copy of the original petition showing each one 
you understand who was on there and also each retainer,

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



73

each each of the petitioners, pardon me, because see when 
I went out there I had a retainer for every one of these 
53.

Q. All right now do you have those retainers now! A. 
Yes, I have those retainers.

—65—
Q. May we see them please! A. I would have to check 

that at the office too on those retainers.

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, I would like to 
request of him and he be given permission to pro­
duce the retainers for those whose names appear in 
the complaint, not the 53 but the number who appear 
in this complaint, Civil Action Number 3382.

The Court: All right, you may get that during the 
noon recess, Jess, when you get that return receipt 
or examine to see whether you have got it or not 
bring those things back with you after lunch.

Attorney Ming: If the Court please, I have all 
those retainers in my file. I would, however, object 
that they are not relevant to any issues in the pro­
ceeding pending before the Court but I have no 
objection to producing them for Court or counsel’s 
inspection.

The Court: I am just a little bit impressed and it’s 
not such a little bit that counsel here on the stand is 
being far less than frank with this Court and I just 
don’t appreciate that a bit in world. This lawyer 
here standing before me is trying to explain his

— 66-

innocence to me and I want him to succeed but. I 
just don’t accord any lawyer the right to sit here like.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



74

this man is doing and telling me stuff that’s in your 
hands is in his office.

Attorney Ming: He didn’t know I had them, Your 
Honor.

The Court: I don’t see how that could be possible.
Attorney Ming: I secured these, Your Honor, 

some months ago when this proceeding first began 
and I have them in my file.

The Court: Well, I am just not inclined to excuse 
a whole lot of his ease with which he seems to be 
swearing in this case.

Attorney Ming: Well, I suggest, Your Honor, 
there is no intention on the part of either Mr. Brown 
or myself to be anything other than completely frank 
and candid which is why I informed the Court 
though as a matter of law I suggest they are not 
relevant.

The Court: Well I don’t know whether they are or 
not but I think your conduct is very commendable.

Attorney Ming: I certainly want the Court to 
know I had them here. It would obviously take time 
to separate them to pick out the ones Judge Pyle 
has especially asked for and I will do that during the

—67—
next recess if I may, Your Honor.

The Court: All right. You may do that.

A. May I, may I say this, Your Honor. I have have since 
what you have said I have copies of everyone of those re­
tainers in my office copies of those retainers. At the time 
that you made the statement I wasn’t deliberately trying 
to confuse the Court, I had in mind I was thinking about

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



75

the copies, see 1 sent the originals turned the originals over 
to the attorneys but I made copies of each one.

The Court: That isn’t what he asked you about 
and I think you know that. (Jo ahead.

By Judge P yle:

Q. All right let’s see if we can get back now to the time 
when you took these documents called retainers to Leake 
County and you said that you went to a church on that 
visit? A. I did.

Q. Is that right? A. Yes sir.
Q. All right now what did you tell those people there at 

that time about what would be necessary in order for you 
to represent them as an attorney in the filing of the lawsuit 
for them? A. When I carried this retainer out there at 
that time?

Q. Yes. A. Well, I told them that I had received a peti-\ 
tion with their names signed to it to file this uh uh I mean 
to file this with the Board and also I said but I don’t want 
to file it with the Board or take any steps at all without 
first uh getting from you you understand your authority to 
do so and I says now it’s my understanding is it my under­
standing that you want me to go ahead and file this petition 
with the Board and go ahead and desegregate the public 
schools or what you want to do. In other words I was try­
ing to find out definitely what they wanted to do. They in­
dicated to me that what they wanted to do is go ahead and 
do everything necessary uh including mailing the petition 
to the Board and also if necessary to bring a larvsuit. That 
was the uh the situation, that is why I did it that way.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross



76

Q. What did you tell them, if anything, about your fee 
for services in representing them. A. At that time we 
didn’t mention anything about fee for services. I didn’t 
mention that.

Q. At any time did you mention to any of the people 
whose names appear in this complaint Civil Action Num­
ber 3382 about paying any fee for legal services! A. At 
no time did we mention anything about fee at that time.

Q. Well what took place there that night after you made 
this statement to them! A. Well, it was lady I think by

—69—
the name of uh I can’t think of the lady’s name, Mrs. Mc­
Daniel I believe, I think that’s her name, I can’t recall, but 
anyhow there was a lady there who said see there were a 
number of people there and this lady she says well now I 
will take the we will take the retainers and those that were 
there a number of them signed the retainers while in my 
presence while I was there.

Q. Who passed them around! A. Who passed these!
Q. Who passed the retainers around the form around for 

the people to sign! A. Well, as nearly as I can recall uh 
those who wanted to go along with the lawsuit held up their 
hands I think and of course I I handed it to them or either 
gave them to uh somebody there who in turn passed them 
out.

Q. Was Ruthie Nell McBeth there that night? A. Uh 
Ruthie Nell McBeth was not there that night.

Q. And Ruthie Nell McBeth did not sign this Exhibit 
Number Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1— A. (Inter­
rupting) In my presence.

Q. (Continuing) that night did she? A. That night she 
did not. She never did sign it in my presence.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



77

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross 

By the Court:

Q. Did she ever sign it! Did she ever sign it? A. I
- 7 0 -

have a retainer.
Q. I didn’t ask yon that. I asked yon if she signed that 

petition Exhibit 5.

Jndge Pyle: Exhibit 5 now this one here. We 
were talking about the retainer Respondent’s Ex­
hibit Number 1.

The Court: Let me see those two petition exhibits 
please. Go ahead.

By Judge P yle:

Q. All right you tell us that some of the people there 
present that night signed a mimeographed document en­
titled retainer similar to Respondent’s Exhibit 1, is that 
right? A. That’s right.

Q. And— A. (Interrupting) A number of people signed 
a this retainer similar to this one.

Q. And after they had signed it what did they do with 
it? A. Uh after they signed it they returned it to me you 
understand and those are the ones I brought back to Jack- 
son but I left some forms with one lady there that night.

Q. And her name was McDaniel? A. I think. I don’t 
recall her name right now but it was one lady there.

—71—
Q. All right now what was she to do with those that you 

left with her? A. Well, she was supposed to contact the 
rest of the uh uh persons you understand who were in­
terested in uh authorizing me to bring the lawsuit she was



78

to contact the other persons because of the fact that they 
lived quite a distance and all weren’t there.

Q. Now did you have with you there that night this sec­
ond petition Court’s Exhibit Number 5 the one which you 
had prepared and had circulated in the community at the 
time you had the retainers there and were having the people 
sign the retainers? A. I I don’t recall whether I had this 
petition there at that time or whether I had sent that peti­
tion there before but it appears to me that I had already 
sent this. I am not certain about that. I just don’t recall. 
I might have prepared that petition, that petition I think 
that petition had already been signed uh by these petitioners 
before I went down there.

Q. Before the retainers? A. Before these retainers?
Q. Yes. Is that what you are telling us?

The Court: Can you hear back there all right? 
Attorney Ming: I am having difficulty, Your 

Honor.
—72—

The Court: Judge, stand back so—

A. (Interrupting) This petition was signed not before this 
retainer. This petition was signed here one with the 53 
names on it was signed before the retainer was signed and 
this petition I think was signed.

By Judge P yle :

Q. Court’s Exhibit 5? A. Exhibit 5 it was signed I be­
lieve I believe it was signed either may have been signed 
after, I don’t recall whether it was signed after or before.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



79

Q. Now which was it? A. Jess, you know? whether you 
had it at the time you went up there to get your retainers 
or you didn’t have it? A. As near I—

Attorney Ming: (Interrupting) Is the reference 
to what we have been calling the second petition—■

A. (Interrupting) This petition was—

Attorney Ming: (Continuing) Which is Court’s 
Exhibit Number 5?

Judge Pyle: 5.

A. I can’t I just can’t recall when that petition uh actually 
was uh delivered. I don’t remember whether I carried the

- 7 3 -
petition up there with me or whether I sent that petition 
ahead but I it appears to me that frankly I just don’t 
recall. I just don’t recall about that petition.

Q. Well, did Rutliie Nell McBeth’s name ever show up 
on— A. (Interrupting) That petition.

Q. (Continuing) the petition which you prepared Court’s 
Exhibit Number 5 to your knowledge? A. It never did 
show up on the petition I prepared to my knowledge. It’s 
not on there.

Q. And you never had any personal contact with her 
Ruthie Nell McBeth yourself? A. I never had any per­
sonal contact with her.

(Court recessed at 10:32 A.M. for 15 minutes.)
Attorney Ming: Your Honor, may the record 

show that I am handing to Judge Pyle as I offered to 
do prior to the recess a signed retainer for each of the

It. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



80

plaintiffs listed in the complaint other than Ruthie 
Nell MeBeth and as to that retainer it appears as 
Exhibit 2 I believe it is in the record.

The Conrt: All right.
Attorney Ming: This of course without waiving 

the relevancy question which I raised.
—74—

The Court: All right.

By Judge P yle :

Q. All right now—- A. (Interrupting) May it please 
the Court, Your Honor, I checked back again in my file and 
I found that I have this return receipt that I didn’t know I 
had that.

The Court: All right.

A. So I don’t want to intentionally misrepresent it.

The Court: All right. Go ahead.

By Judge P yle :

Q. Now that’s a return receipt for what, Jess? A. This 
is a return receipt uh shows February the 24th, 19 and 63, 
that the time that uh 1 sent the first petition to the uh 
Leake County School Board.

The Court: Now you stated that three different 
,, ways. You better decide here while you are doing 

some of this heavy swearing which one of them you 
want to stand on because I am not going to sit here 
all day and listen to you change your testimony

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



81

every five minutes because you are just getting in 
this tiling over your head. Now you have stated first 
that you sent this matter on August the 23rd, 1963 
and with your counsel’s assistance you want to

—7 5 -
change it to February the 23rd, 1962 and now you 
are back on the original testimony. Is that right!

Attorney Ming: Excuse me, Your Honor. I think 
Your Honor misspoke, you said August, 1963.

The Court: February the 23rd, 1963.
Attorney Ming: I think Your Honor said August. 
The Court: All right.

By the Court:

Q. Now which one is right, Jess? Let’s light and stay 
there? A. Sent it uh February the 24th, I mean February 
the 24th, 19 and 62.

Q. That’s four different ways that you have sent it on 
different dates. Are you excited, Jess, or ignorant or what? 
I can’t make up mind about you honestly and I am giving 
you the benefit of some of my thinking. I am trying to 
find out what the facts are in this case. A. I wrote uh Feb­
ruary the 23rd, 19 and 62 is the time that I got a temporary 
receipt from the Post Office.

By Judge P yle :

Q. For what now? A. Showing that I had sent the first 
petition to the School Board.

—76—
Q. That’s Court’s Exhibit Number 3 now? A. That’s 

Court’s Exhibit Number 3.
Q. All right now. Do you—

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

'N.



Attorney Ming: (Interrupting) Excuse me. Your 
Honor, for purposes of clarity in the record may 
we have that receipt marked as an exhibit so that 
we know what is being referred to?

The Court: Well, I will let you get to that. I 
think it ought to be identified in some way and then 
introduced by one side or the other.

Attorney Ming: That’s correct, Your Honor. I 
simply wanted to get it marked at the point where it’s 
referred to by the witness.

The Court: Well, I will let Judge Pyle go along 
and we will see. Go ahead.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. All right now I call your attention once more to 
Court’s Exhibit Number 5 and ask you if you have any 
evidence in your file or in your possession or in your coun­
sel’s possession which would disclose when this document 
was presented to the Leake County School Board as you 
testified a minute ago? A. Uh that docket was presented

—77—
to the Leake County School Board, that’s the second docu­
ment, is that right?

Q. Yes, that’s the second petition that you said you drew. 
A. That’s the it’s dated date of delivery it was delivered on 
to the Board uh August the 25th, 1962 that’s when it was 
delivered and uh it doesn’t show when it was mailed. This 
up here is the post mark see didn’t get down in here.

Q. Are you confident now that you hold in your hand the 
postal receipt reflecting receipt by the Leake County 
School Board of this petition Court’s Exhibit Number 5 
on August the 25th, 1962? A. August the 25th.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



83

Q. It says 8/25/62 is that right! A. Because I have it 
hooked to a cox>y of the second petition.

Q. All right and when was it that you made the decision 
as to whose names would be used in the petition Civil Ac­
tion Number 3382 Court’s Exhibit Number 1 for identifica­
tion here! A. I will say this that when I sent the second 
petition to the Board I sent that second petition to the 
Board because we hadn’t heard from the first petition. and 
we were just simply repetitioning the Board the second 
time in order to bring to the Board’s attention uh the 
matter had been petitioned before hoping the Board would 
act that was the principal reason for sending this petition

■—78—
and so this petition of course then was sent prior to going 
back down there.

Q. You talking about Court’s Exhibit Number 5 now was 
sent to the Board. Now what I am asking you is when did 
you make the determination as to whose names would be 
used in the formal petition which was filed in this Court 
as Civil Action Number 3382! A. Now in the spring of 19 
and uh somewhere I don’t recall the time but prior to bring­
ing this uh suit in which Ruthie Nell McBeth’s name was 
included I went to Leake County this is subsequent between 
the time that I mailed this second petition to the Leake 
County Board and prior to bringing the lawsuit in behalf 
of Ruthie McBeth and the others I then at that time went 
to Leake County before we filed this suit and I at that time 
carried the original list of all of the persons that I had had 
the original 52.

Q. That’s Court’s Exhibit Number 3 you are talking 
about now, is that right? A. Naw, that’s not what I ac­
tually carried, I didn’t carry that. I actually had typed off, 
I don’t know whether I have it.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



84

Q, You had typed the names off of Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 3, is that right, and drew another separate list! A. I 
typed the original 52 and took a separate list down, that’s 
what happened, I just typed off took a separate list.

— 79—

Q. All right and what did you do after you got there 
with that sejmrate list? A. Well, when I got there with 
the separate list as I afore told you I came in all these 
people were sitting there I said in view of the fact that I 
have read in the newspaper where uh a number of people 
have gotten off and I have not been directly notified by 
anybody nor by the Board that I want to know uh who 
yet wanted to bring the lawsuit. Now this conference was 
with respect to the lawsuit and that is the time that I 
found that all of these persons who are on this complaint 
either were there at the time or had someone uh repre­
senting them there at that time either they were there 
personally or they had someone there representing them 
including the mother of Kuthie Nell McBeth.

Q. Was B-uthie Nell McBeth there? A. She was not 
there that night but her mother was.

Q. And that’s Bertha Kirkland you are talking about? 
A. That’s Bertha Kirkland.

Q. Can you fix that date? A. Uh I can’t fix the date 
but it was prior to uh I don’t recall, it must have been 
somewhere maybe in February or somewhere along in 
there, I don’t recall.

Q. 1963? A. 19 and 63. It was prior to filing this be­
cause I was not going to file this suit into the Federal

- 80-

Court until I went down there and and polled each of those 
persons were there to find out if if they wanted now me to 
go into the lawsuit.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



85

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross 

By the Court:

Q. Did you make that inquiry of Euthie Nell McBeth or 
her mother on that occasion? A. Yes. What happened 
sir is that I started to my left after I had stated generally 
to everybody my purpose there started to my left and 
polled each one of them sitting there and as I asked each 
one whether or not they it was their intention to go ahead 
with the lawsuit I took my uh I had at that time another 
sheet of paper that I wrote the names down on and uh uh 
I went to each one, now some of the people that were 
there at the time weren’t uh interested in the suit uh 
they were just there some extra people who were there at 
that time so I took each one wrote their names down. 
We got to uh Mrs. Kirkland, Bertha Kirkland it was 
somebody in the group says uh that’s uh Mrs. Bertha Mrs. 
Bertha Kirkland who is the mother of Euthie Nell McBeth, 
Euthie Nell McBeth can’t be here today tonight but she 
is here representing her daughter. Then I asked uh uh 
Bertha Bertha Kirkland uh what was the she was there 
representing her daughter what their intention was on 
the part of her daughter. First she asked me if she 
could take her daughter’s place uh and substitute her­
self for her daughter. At that time I stated that uh since 
Euthie Nell McBeth was the uh mother of the child that in

— 81—

that uh situation I think that it would be better that 
Euthie Me uh Euthie Nell McBeth uh join this suit uh 
than for her mother, I think it would be better if she wish 
to do so so then at that time her mother said well all 
right then uh uh said she would go ahead and join the 
action, it would be all right, she would she would join the 
action. I just merely asked that question. Now at the



86

same time I had prepared a form and on the form I had 
the names of the children as I can recall, I think I have 
one of those, I had the fnll name of the father, the name 
of the mother, addresses, names of various child children, 
the distances where they lived, information pertinent to 
the to the bringing the action. In other words uh she uh 
she gave me certain information.

By Judge P yle :

Q. I show you page 2 of Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for 
identification and ask you whether or not that is a copy 
of the form you are talking about you had there on this 
occasion? A. That’s right but I of course I wrote my infor­
mation, I uh I gave the form and also got certain informa­
tion that I had written on a piece of paper.

Q. Did you write the information that’s contained on 
page 2 of this document Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for iden­
tification, is that your handwriting? A. Just a moment 
now.

Q. The part that’s shown in handwriting in ink? A.
—82—

Naw, I didn’t, I did not.
Q. You don’t know where that came from? A. Let me 

go back just a moment. When this original retainer was 
first sent to Leake County this second sheet accompanied 
this original retainer, this second sheet. All of this went 
together at one time and uh when I got this retainer back 
I got the first sheet and the second sheet but when I made 
my final trip down there to inquire about it I then got in­
formation from the various persons that I wrote down that 
information that I wrote concerning it.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



87

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross 

By the Court. :
Q. Who bradded those two pages together! A. Uh I uh 

I I bradded those two, I bradded the page one to page two 
as near as I can recall.

Q. When! A. Before I sent the retainer down there. 
Uh I what I was saying is that nil with respect to this 
retainer during the recess I consulted a memorandum that 
I had prepared for Mr. Ming, Attorney Ming, and which 
uh I had uh used you know at the time right after you 
brought the citation when I employed him I uh prepared 
a memorandum and from that I was able to uh recollect 
uh some of the things that are vague in my mind which 
we have that memorandum here.

'The Court: All right.
—83—-

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Now there on this occasion when you say that Bertha 
Kirkland said go ahead and use Ruthie Nell McBeth’s 
name! A. That’s right.

Q. In the Court proceeding you knew that Ruthie Nell 
McBeth was a woman over twenty-one years of age didn’t 
you! A. Uh I can’t say that I knew she was a woman 
over twenty-one of age over twenty-one years of age. As 
a matter of fact actually if you want the truth about it 
I never considered the matter of her age. I knew she I 
mean it had been reported to me that she uh had children 
in school.

Q. She had children in school and you had no informa­
tion that she was a person who was not of sound mind and 
couldn’t speak for herself did you! A. I did not. I was



under the impression that her mother was there represent­
ing Ruthie Nell McBeth as a matter of fact.

Q. But not because of any incapacity on the part of 
Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. Not because of any incapacity. 
I understood that Ruthie Nell McBeth couldn’t be there 
that night and had sent her mother there in her place to 
represent Ruthie Nell McBeth.

Q. And at that time on that night you had this second 
petition which you had drawn Court’s Exhibit Number 5 
which did not disclose the name of Ruthie Me Ruthie Nell

—84—
McBeth as being one of those desiring to sign the petition 
or to proceed with any litigation for the integration of the 
Leake County Schools did you? You had this document 
didn’t you? A. As a matter of fact I didn’t go by this docu­
ment. As a matter of fact this petition to the Board of 
Education—

Q. (Interrupting) You didn’t answer my question. Now 
I want you one time today to answer my question.

Attorney Ming: Now just a moment.
Judge Pyle: And I want you to too.
Attorney Ming: Now just a minute. I would like 

to object.
The Court: All right, you may object.
Attorney Ming: I have a right to object and I ob­

ject to the form of that question, Your Honor, be­
cause it contains an assumption which is not valid. 

The Court: Read the question back.
The Court Reporter: “And at that time on that 

night you had this second petition which you had 
drawn Court’s Exhibit Number 5—”

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



89

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

Tlie Court: Well, you are objecting to liis remarks.
Just rephrase your question, Judge.

Judge Pyle: All right sir.

By Judge P yle:

Q. Did you or not have with you this petition which you 
prepared. Court’s Exhibit Number 5, which had been re­
turned to you with the signatures as they appear on it 
today at the time you were in this meeting when you say 
that Bertha Kirkland authorized you or told you to go 
ahead and use Ruthie Nell McBeth’s name! A. I had that 
petition my whole file including the petition at that time. 
I am trying to answer your question, counsel, as best I can.

Q. And you had no information from Bertha Kirkland 
or anyone else that you had talked to that Ruthie Nell 
McBetli was not a person competent to act in her own be­
half did you! A. I did not have that information, no sir, 
I did not.

Q. Then when did you make the final determination as to 
the names of the parties that you would use in your com­
plaint Civil Action Number 3382? A. I made the final de­
termination after I had received uh the indication that 
night of the persons that wanted to continue on in the law­
suit.

Q. And you made the determination following this night
—86—

that you have just described to use the names as they now 
appear in Civil Action Number 3382, the Court’s Exhibit 
Number 1 for identification? Did you make that determi­
nation? A. Everyone for which I had retainers you under­
stand and for those who had reindicated you understand



90

that they wanted to go back, I mean they wanted to con­
tinue with the lawsuit.

Q. But you determined to use these people’s names who 
are on this petition, is that right! A. That’s right, I de­
termined to use those names.

Q. All right now who prepared this petition or com­
plaint Civil Action Number 3382! A. That complaint was 
prepared uh in uh New York City by Mr. Bell the legal 
defense and uh his associates according to the information 
that I have. I didn’t see them prepare it however.

Q. Who furnished the information that was used in the 
preparation by Attorney Bell of the complaint Civil Ac­
tion Number 3382! A. WTell, after I had been up there at 
that time we didn’t immediately I didn’t immediately do 
anything at that time uh.

Q. What time now you talking about! A. At the time 
that I went up and polled these people that I was talking 
about, you see what I mean.

—87—
Q. Yes. A. But sometime after that I had gotten some 

information uh well let me go back. After that sometime 
after that uh Mr. Medger Evers after I had been down 
there the last time went to Leake County and while he was 
there he obtained some information that he brought back 
to me in addition to the information that I had already 
sought at the time I was down there. I got additional in­
formation and all of that information was assembled and 
then forwarded to New York.

Q. By whom! A. Byrne.
Q. Now did Attorney Bell of New York or Attorney 

Motley or Attorney Jack Greenberg of New York make any 
independent investigation at all prior to filing this com­
plaint that you know of! A. No, the only investigation 
that I, I don’t know of any investigation they made.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross



91

Q. All the information that they had for the drafting 
of the complaint was the information which you had sup­
plied? A. I had supplied. Now they could have been a 
that is if they had any information other than the informa­
tion I sent uh there could be a uh a duplicate. In other 
words I am trying to say accumulative information. I 
don’t know whether they had information that made mine 
accumulative or not but I sent the information that I had

received from my investigation and also the investigation 
made by Mr. Medger Evers.

Q. All right now after you forwarded this information 
to Attorney Derrick A. Bell, Jr. in New York what was 
the nest contact you had with the matter! A. Well, after 
I filed it with Attorney Bell in New York uh we had I don’t 
know a number of telephone conversations uh 1 don’t re­
member whether one or two, we discussed the thing over 
the telephone and uh after our discussions on the telephone 
uh with regarding the contents of it then this uh instru­
ment was sent to me from the New York office from 
Mr. Bell.

Q. Have you got a copy of the letter of transmittal 
wherein you sent to Attorney Bell in New York the infor­
mation that you are telling us about? A. I don’t think.

Q. And do you have copies of the documents which you 
sent to him at that time? A. Copies of documents. I do 
not have any copies of any documents, wait a minute and 
let me see.

Q. Did you send to Attorney Bell copies of the petition 
Exhibit Number 3 and the petition Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 5 prior to the preparation of this complaint? A. Did 
I, would you repeat that cpiestion please?

II. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



92

Q. Did you send either one of these petitions to Attor­
ney Bell with the information about filing the complaint? 
A. Uh copy of this petition of the second petition copy of

— 89—

the second petition which is this petition was sent to Mr. 
Bell a copy of this.

Q. What else did you send him? A. Uh I sent as I 
recall uh Mr. Bell sent a to me a mimeograph, not a mimeo­
graph but a typed form asking certain questions as to uh 
how many persons how many children were located in uh 
certain homes, the distances and all like that. In other 
words there was certain there was a form sent and I filled 
the form, filled out this form and sent it back to him, that’s 
the way it was, it was a form that was sent to me.

Q. Now— A. Asking for certain information that he 
needed to know in order to complete the bill of the com­
plaint said he could not complete the complaint until he had 
certain other information that he needed to know.

Q. Did you send him copies of the retainers which you 
had obtained from the people that you were to represent 
in this proceeding such as Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1? 
You did send copies? A. Send copies, either sent them or 
gave them to him. I think I sent them to him but anyhow 
I delivered him copies of the retainers he had copies as 
near as I can recall.

Q. Now after you had sent this information to Attorney 
Bell in New York how long was it before you received the 
complaint back which is now in evidence as Court’s Exhibit

— 90-

Number 1 for identification? A. I don’t recall. Actually 
I would say maybe about maybe couple of weeks, ten or 
twelve days, I don’t, I just don’t recall.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



93

Q. Well, I show you now this Court’s Exhibit Number 1 
for identification and ask you to look at it carefully and 
tell us whether it is today in the same form that it was in 
at the time you received it from Attorney Bell in New 
York? A. That’s my signature and that’s the same form 
which I filed it I would say.

Q. All right now that is the same document that you got 
back from Attorney Bell in New York? A. It appears to 
be the same document.

Q. All right now after you got it what did you do, after 
you received it from Bell in New York this document Ex­
hibit 1 for identification? A. Uh after I received that uh 
Exhibit 1 for identification I first read it over uh fact I 
took it my desk and sat down and read it over and uh 
then after that I think uh made a call either one or more 
calls that we discussed it on the telephone.

Q. With whom, who did you call? A. With Attorney 
Bell.

Q. All right? A. With reference to various aspects of 
the instrument.

Q. All right you talked to him once or twice after it
—91—

came to you? A. Yes.
Q. And then what did you do? A. Then after doing 

that I of course filed it.
Q. You signed it R. Jess Brown in ink on the 9th page 

thereof? A. That’s right.
Q. And took it to the United States District Court Clerk’s 

office here in Jackson and filed it, is that right! A. Yes 
sir.

Q. You did not have any conversation with Ruthie Nell 
McBeth after you received this document Court’s Exhibit 
Number 1 from Attorney Bell in New York prior to the

II. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross



94

time that you filed it with the Clerk in Jackson did you? 
A. I did not.

Q. And as a fact you did not have any contact with 
anyone of the plaintiffs whose names appeared on this 
complaint Court’s Exhibit Number 1 after you received 
the document from Attorney Bell and prior to the time 
you filed it with the United States Clerk did you? A. The 
only thing, the only thing—

Q. Just answer my question and then you can explain. 
A. No, uh I did not. Uh I might add this though that what 
I did was check I read the instrument and checked the 
instrument uh that had been sent to me uh with the uh

—92—
information that I had gotten and uh after doing that I 
signed it and filed it.

Q. All right. Now I call your attention to paragraph 5E 
of this complaint Court’s Exhibit Number 1 for identifica­
tion which reads as follows: “ To date plaintiffs have re­
ceived no reply to their petition from the defendant Board, 
but during the nights of October 4 and 5, 1962 the homes of 
plaintiffs Mr. James Overstreet and Mrs. Ruthie Nell 
McBeth and other negroes were shot into by parties whose 
identities local law enforcement authorities have failed 
to ascertain.” Who supplied that information to the drafter 
of this complaint? A. I supplied that information.

Q. Why did you supply— A. (Interrupting) Let me 
point this out. I supplied uh that information. Now 
whether or not the Attorney Bell had also had any infor­
mation similar to that I don’t know but I did supply that 
information.

The Court: Well, I hold the local counsel account­
able for these things. That’s the reason I won’t let

\

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



95

non-resident counsel file them because I want local 
counsel to know what they are saying.

By Judge Pyle :
Q. And when you put your signature on this document 

Court’s Exhibit 1 for identification you were verifying this
- 9 3 -

fact and this information as contained in paragraph 5E as 
being correct information weren’t you! A. To the best of 
my knowledge from what I had received and the informa­
tion I had gotten to the best of my knowledge yes.

Q. Would you tell the Court please why it was that you 
thought it appropriate to put that kind of an allegation 
in this complaint !

Attorney Ming: Just a moment. I want to object 
to that, Your Honor, on the ground that the ques­
tion of a lawyer as to why lie makes an allegation 
is not a proper question. Now I didn’t raise any 
objection with respect to the source of the informa­
tion or the filing because I suggest that is relevant 
but why he did it I suggest, Your Honor, is not a 
proper subject for inquiry by a court because it goes 
to the matter of the exercise of his professional 
judgment which he has a right to do without inter­
ference uh from the court or from anybody else 
as far as that’s concerned. The matter of relevance 
if there is a question of relevance is not for this 
proceeding but a proceeding on the issues which 
as I have pointed out to the court earlier is termi­
nated in this Court by the entry of the order by 
Judge Mize.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



96

The Court: I will overrule your objection and let
—94—

him make his explanation, he is a lawyer.

A. I read, well, let me go back on that. Uh I got the I 
secured that information from Mr. Medger Evers. What 
had happened there was a news a news came out with the 
respect that there had been some homes fired into in 
Leake County and these homes had been uh I also had 
other information that a day or two prior to the news 
report of the shooting in these places in Leake County 
or homes there had been a statement that had appeared 
in the news from uh an attorney uh in the case I believe 
that had been some statement uh with respect that uh 
I believe Leake County would be another uh had been 
some news to the effect that Leake County would be an­
other uh object of uh desegregation suit another desegrega­
tion suit and a day or two after that this shooting oc­
curred.

By Judge P yle :

Q. Who was this attorney now? A. I I don’t recall. 
I remember I read some news to that respect but I don’t 
recall and then the shooting occurred uh some I don’t know 
day or so later, couple of days later uh according to the 
information I had at that time received, uh I did not per­
sonally go up there myself, I did not make the investiga­
tion but uh Mr. Medger Evers went up and he contacted 
the persons up there in Leake County including I think 
most if not all of the complainants in this in the case and 
after having done so and gotten that information he came

- 9 5 -
back to my office and he came to my office and said uh uh

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



97

that nil in substance that there had been some shooting in 
the various homes of the persons up there including the 
plaintiffs principally the plaintiffs uh not plaintiffs, they 
weren’t plaintiffs then, but including the petitioners in 
this lawsuit, uh and he went on to say that this shooting 
had occurred and in the places of these various persons 
and he named these places, for instance he said I think he 
said they shot in uh Mrs. McBeth’s place, also in uh uh 
Mrs. Overstreet and a number of others.

Q. All right now you made no effort to verify any of 
the information which Medger Evers furnished you on 
this subject did you! A. I did not make any effort to 
verify that. As a matter of fact he had been there, he had 
talked with these persons that he stated to me he had been 
talking with them all the time.

Q. Medger Evers was not a party to the complaint or 
going to be a party to the complaint was he! A. Uh he 
was not a party to the complaint, he was not going* to be 
a party to the complaint but he dealt with the uh peti­
tioners and complainants uh as their representative, not 
as mine. As a matter of fact I didn’t send him up there, 
he went there on his own or somebody had him go there, 
I didn’t even send him there but he brought the informa­
tion back from these places.

—96—
Q. And you made no effort to check the information with 

the parties whose names you used in this complaint par­
ticularly Ruthie Nell McBeth as to whether or not anybody 
had fired a shotgun into her house prior to the time that 
you put your signature on this complaint, Court’s Exhibit 
Number 1 for identification, and delivered it to the Clerk of 
this Court for filing did you! A. I did not check that. 
Simply said her place among others had been fired into

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



98

and I might add at that time I didn’t even know that 
Enthie Nell McBeth operated any type of restaurant or 
cafe or clnb and I assumed when he said the places that 
he was talking about her home and that’s how inadvertently 
we put home in there instead of her cafe.

Q. You put home in here and you did  not contact the 
people whose names you used to determine whether or 
not the information was correct? A. I did not contact.

Q. And why was it that you felt that this allegation 
contained in subparagraph E of paragraph 5 of this com­
plaint had any place in the complaint for the integration 
of the Leake County Schools?

Attorney Ming: Just a moment, Mr. Brown. I 
will object to that question for the reason already 
stated, Your Honor.

—97—
The Court: All right. Overruled.

A. Uh the reason why that we placed that in there was 
that one of the issues that we anticipated that might arise 
was that we had not exhausted proper administrative 
remedies before going into court. Uh wTe had anticipated 
showing in the event that this question should arise that 
it would be would have been futile to actually uh rely 
upon any uh instrumentalities uh for the relief that we 
were seeking provided by the state before going into 
court and in order to more or less point out and show 
to the court and substantiate this we said in here that 
here these these these plaintiffs uh had filed I mean had 
filed a petition with the Board of Education and after 
they had filed this petition with the Board of Education 
had filed a second petition with the Board of Education, 
there had been no answer from the Board of Education

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



99

and as results of nil my having nil having come to my 
attention that there had been news to the effect that there 
there was a suit immediately in the making that likely 
would be filed in a day or two after that there was a 
shooting that occurred and that as result of this shoot­
ing we were trying to show that uh more or less that 
the the community uh uh was aroused, that was the argu­
ment that we had said we had planned to present to the 
Court to show that this was our argument as lawyers 
that this was what we felt was a situation in Leake County

—98—-
and we felt that this had aroused the people, that this 
was a policy of instituting segregation uh in the public 
schools and this type of thing was to the extent that it 
would have been absolutely futile to have attempted to 
exhaust any of the remedies provided by the state and 
that’s why we put that in there because we anticipated 
that such a question may arise and was not put there for 
the purpose of degrading anybody uh uh that was not 
the purpose at all, it was the purpose to help us show 
the court what the situation was there.

By Judge Pyle :
Q. But you made no investigation to determine or try 

to determine whether or not there was any relationship 
between the shots that were fired into anybody’s home or 
place of business and the matter of filing a complaint to 
integrate the schools did you? A. We did not do that 
but the only thing about it is I said that was the argu­
ment we were attempting to show the Court, that was 
the argument that I had put in we had discussed it, we 
had talked about it, we kicked it about in telephone calls 
and what not with that respect.

i t .  Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



100

Q. You didn’t know then and yon don’t know now 
whether there was any relationship between the shooting 
on October the 4th and 5th and the filing of a petition for 
integration do you? A. I uh I strongly say uh say that

—99—
what I am saying is that we feel that this thing happen­
ing uh at the time it did and also happened at the time 
that Meredith was at uh or attempting or had just uh 
gone into the University of Mississippi I think along 
about in that time, I don’t remember, he had just been 
in there or had just gotten in there was all during the 
time when there was quite a fury going on uh in Oxford 
and other places and and strangely enough during this 
time of all of this fury and turmoil in Oxford as results 
of Meridith going uh attempting to go to the University 
of Mississippi at that time this shooting occurred in Leake 
County. Now there were 82 counties in the State of Mis­
sissippi I believe and out of the 82 counties it was strange 
to me that Leake County would be the one where the 
firing took place and so consequently it it in my opinion 
it gave to me the idea to to show the Court as I pointed 
out what the situation was in that county. That’s why we 
put it in there. That’s why we discussed it, that’s what 
we believed. Now we may not be correct, it was up to 
the Court to determine whether or not we were correct 
or whether we weren’t correct but that’s what we were 
bringing to the Court. We have brought many things 
to the Court that the Court did not agree with us on 
but we brought this leaving it to the Court to decide 
whether or not that we could convince the Court that 
it would have been futile to bring such an action and 
that’s the reason, not for the purpose of trying to inti mi-

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Gross



101

i t '.  Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

— 100~

date anybody or trying to accuse anybody or anything or 
trying to ridicule anybody in that community. That’s 
that’s the sole reason.

Q. Did you talk to any of the law enforcement officers 
of Leake County about their efforts to apprehend who­
ever might have done any shooting in the Fall of 1962! 
A. I did not talk to any of the law enforcement officer, 
did not.

Q. But this took place the shooting that you allege in 
the complaint, Exhibit 1 for identification, in the Fall of 
1962 long before you filed your complaint here Civil Action 
Number 3382 on March the 7th, 1963 didn’t it! A. That’s 
true but it also took place after we had filed two petitions 
to the Leake County School Board to desegregate the 
public schools which had made quite abundance of news 
TV radio and also in the newspaper and had been greatly 
exemplified.

Q. Now are you familiar with this document entitled 
a motion to dismiss suit or in the alternative to remove 
the name of Gwennell McBeth, a minor, by Ruthie Nell 
McBeth, her mother and next friend, which was filed in 
this Court on April 5th, 1963 over the sworn signature of 
Ruthie Nell McBeth! A. As I recall I believe uh one of 
the attorneys for the state, I say uh not for the state, one 
of the attorneys out of the Attorney General’s office, As­
sistant Attorney General I believe uh Assistant Attorney

—101—
General Wells I believe, I think that’s correct, if I am 
not correct any how it was presented by one of the attor­
neys out of the Attorney General’s office on the 5th day 
of April I believe 19 and 63.



102

Q. Were yon present in the Conrt where Judge Mize 
was presiding here in Jackson when this motion was pre­
sented to the Court! A. Yes sir, I was. As a matter of 
fact I uh at that time the motion to dismiss the suit hear­
ing was on and I was of counsel at that time and that 
hearing.

Q. And we are talking about now Court’s Exhibit Num­
ber 2 for identification? A. That’s right.

Q. Why did you not at that time present to Judge Mize 
this document Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1, your re­
tainer? A. Well, as a matter of fact I knew that I had 
had notice with respect to the motion to dismiss was to 
be heard that day. I had no notice with respect to the 
affidavit filed by Ruthie Lee McBeth- After I had made 
my argument uh and at the almost at the conclusion I be­
lieve of the hearing when uh Mr. Wells presented the affi­
davit of Ruthie Nell McBeth was the first time that I had 
had any notice to that effect, consequently at that mo­
ment naturally I didn’t have the retainers with me, I didn’t 
have all the information there, at that moment uh when 
this was introduced uh I wanted to have an opportunity 
to go back to my office and recheck my retainers which I

— 102—

was relying on and other words I said well maybe I have 
made a mistake, maybe I better recheck this thing to be 
certain.

Q. Did you ask the Court at that time for permission to 
/ go check your files and determine whether or not you had 
i a retainer from Ruthie Nell McBeth to represent her in this 
| proceeding? A. I did not because the main thing I was 

concerned on was the fact that Ruthie Nell McBeth wrnnted 
to withdraw from the lawsuit. I wanted the Court to know 
that I in no way was interested in having her stay in the

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



103

lawsuit. As I recall at the time I said that if she wishes 
to withdraw from the lawsuit we certainly have no ob­
jections of her doing so and—

By the Court:

Q. Excuse me. Weren’t you concerned though when she 
said that she had not only wanted to withdraw but when 
she said she never had wanted to be a party to it and never 
authorized you to bring a suit, weren’t you concerned as an 
officer of this Court— A. (Interrupting) Yes sir, I was 
greatly—

Q. (Continuing) To let the Judge know that you were 
clear in what you were doing? A. Yes sir, lyvvas gravely 
concerned_but I went back to my office and I spent uli 
went back to my office first checked my retainers again to 
see if I had her retainer and also if I had the retainer 
of all of the others be certain to recheck it because I I

—103—
I didn’t know what to tell the Court at that moment, in 
fact I was shocked, I was completely amazed, if I had 
gotten this notice of this affidavit even a day ahead I would 
have had an opportunity to check my file. I got no notice 
and knew nothing about it until it was thrown at me that 
day in court so then I went hack directly to my office, 
checked through my retainers to see if I had this retainer, 
checked everyone of them because I said here if I have 
made a error on one of them maybe I have made a error 
on several so I checked all of them and after I checked 
all of them I uh uh checked my files, I went through every­
thing as much as I could to try to get all the information, 
I stayed at my office pretty late that night trying to assimi­
late it and go back through it and see what the situation

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



104

was in respect to it. I did that, there’s no question about 
it, I was gravely concerned.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. All right now tell ns this did yon find this retainer 
Court’s Exhibit Number 1, I mean Respondent’s Exhibit 
Number 1 now in evidence? A. Yes sir, I found it.

Q. You found it that night after this motion was pre­
sented on April the 5th, 1963 to dismiss as to Ruthie Nell 
McBeth and her daughter? A. Yes sir.

—104—
Q. You found it that night? A. Yes sir, that’s right.
Q. There was an order entered was there not in this 

case by Judge Mize on that same day April the 5th, 1963 
sustaining this motion to let Ruthie Nell McBeth and her 
daughter out of your complaint, Civil Action Number 3382, 
was there not? A. That’s correct.

Q. And this is the order that I show you now that was 
entered in the cause pursuant to this motion to dismiss on 
behalf of Ruthie Nell McBeth and her daughter? A. That 
is the substance, I mean that appears to be the order.

Judge Pyle: If Your Honor please, we would like 
to have this order marked for identification. It is a 
part of the file and we have been talking about it.

The Court: All right, that order may be marked 
Court’s Exhibit 6.

(Received and marked Court’s Exhibit 6.)
Attorney Ming: May I see the document.
The Court: Yes sir, it’s part of the Court file.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



105

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross 

By Judge P yle :

Q. Now prior to the time that Judge Mize entered the 
order Court’s Exhibit Number 6 there had been read there

—1 0 5 -
in in open court and had been discussion on this motion 
Court’s Exhibit Number 2 for identification hadn’t there? 
You were fully aware of the content of the motion on be­
half of filed by Euthie Nell McBeth on behalf of herself 
and her daughter Court’s Exhibit Number 2 for identifica­
tion weren’t you!

Attorney Ming: Just a moment, Mr. Brown. I 
will object to that question on the ground that it 
states a fact which is not in the record. There is no 
evidence here that that motion was filed by Euthie 
Nell McBeth. On the contrary Euthie Nell McBeth’s 
testimony which is the only testimony we have about 
it was that she turned that document over to I 
believe it was the lawyer who prepared it, she 
signed it, swore to it, turned it over to him and that’s 
the last time she saw it until she saw it in court. Mr. 
Brown testified that when he first say it it was ten­
dered to the Court by an Assistant Attorney General 
so I object to the question of Judge Pyle which as­
sumes a fact not in evidence.

The Court: You may rephrase your question.
Judge Pyle: All right sir.

By Judge P yle :

Q. I call your attention, Jess, to Court’s Exhibit Number 
2 for identification which is a motion entitled motion to 
dismiss suit or in the alternative to remove name of

—106—
Gwennell McBeth, a minor, by Euthie Nell McBeth, her



106

mother and next friend. Now you were fully aware of the 
contents of this motion prior to the time that Judge Mize 
entered his order based on the motion which is now Exhibit 
Number 6 weren’t you?

Attorney Ming: Just a moment. I will object to 
that question because Exhibit 6 is plain from the 
face of it that it is not based on that motion and I 
show it to the Court, has nothing to do with it.

The Court: I sustain the objection.
Judge Pyle: If the Court please, I withdraw the 

question. Apparently the order is out of the file on 
appeal and I will withdraw it. I don’t think it’s nec­
essary and material here anyway.

By Judge P yle:
Q. My only point is, Jess, you were familiar with the 

content of the motion before the order was entered by the 
Court dismissing as to Ruthie Nell McBeth and her daugh­
ter, Gwennell McBeth, weren’t you? A. Yes, I was famil­
iar before the Court order was entered dismissing it.

Q. All right now after the Civil Action Number 3382 had 
been dismissed as to Ruthie Nell McBeth and her daughter, 
Gwennell McBeth, what, if any, conversation did you have

—107—
with Judge Harold Cox pertaining to this matter? A. Uh 
pertaining to this affidavit itself?

Q. That’s right. A. Uh let me see, after this affidavit 
was filed, is that correct?

Q. Right. A. Now this affidavit was of course filed on 
the 5th and presented in Court on the 5th and uh—

Q. That’s April the 5th, 1963, is that right? A. April 
the 5th, 1963.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



107

Q. All right, what next transpired concerning that affi­
davit and that motion Court’s Exhibit Number 2 for identi­
fication? A. Uh let’s see 1 believe on Saturday morning 
which was on the 6tli I had an occasion to contact Judge 
Cox and I believe I at that time saw him in his chambers 
regarding a matter in another matter, it wasn’t a matter I 
believe pertinent to this particular to this because I didn’t 
I don’t think I raised this at all. While we were in the 
course of the conversation Mr. uh Judge Cox stated to me 
at the time I believe he had been away I think he said on the 
coast, I don’t recall, but anyway he had been out of town 
and he had come back in either he had come back either 
late Friday evening or early Saturday morning and it 
had mm'' to his attention about this affidavit that had 
been filed and I believe at that time he alerted me that he

- ...............  ’ '~ ~........ “  __108—-~
anticipated or was in the process of preparing a citation 
order for me.

Q. All right. A. Near as I can remember and I believe 
that the I don’t know what else uh I don’t think I attempted 
to explain to him in his chambers anything about how it 
happened uh and I don’t think he even sought to get that 
information at that time relative to uh whether I did do it 
or whether I didn’t do it or my conduct in that matter.

Q. You knew that what Judge Cox was speaking about at 
that time were concerning the allegations in this motion to 
dismiss made under oath by Ruthie Nell McBeth that she 
had not authorized you to use her name in the filing of the 
complaint in the Civil Action Number 3382? A. You say I 
knew about it?

Q. Yes, you knew that’s what Judge Cox was talking 
about on April the 6th, 1963? A. He made it clear to me 
that that was what he was talking about and stated as near

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



108

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

as I can recall I don’t think he even attempted to solicit nh 
any information uh I have got to be near as I can I don’t 
think he attempted to solicit any information from me rela­
tive to the validity of this uh uh this charge uh this affi­
davit.

Q. Can you explain to the Court why you didn’t volun­
teer to Judge Cox at that time on April 6th, 1963 that you 
held in your possession a retainer for your services as an

—109—

X3>
1•4

v / '

attorney signed by Ruthie Nell McBeth which is the re- 
y' tainer now in -evidence as Exhibit Number Respondent’s 

Exhibit Number 1 for identification? A. I think he indi- 
cated at the time that he he wanted to go into this matter, 
that he was preparing a citation order, he indicated, at 
least I got the understanding, I won’t say what he indi­
cated, but I got the understanding the way I understood it 
not saying what he indicated but I got the understanding 
that at that time I was not supposed to explain to him what 
had happened because the first thing or near the first thing 
that he mentioned in regard to the affidavit was that he 
was preparing a uh a uh a citation order for me and that uh 
he wanted to he said now I am not indicting you, I am not 
saying that you are guilty, I am not saying you are not, he 
says uh but the Court wants to go into it because it’s just 
as important to you as anybody else, says matter of fact it’s 
more important to you because at this stage of the situation 
uh I feel that by making this inquiry to determine it it will 
be I mean that’s the impression I got that it would be uh 
better for me to do so so the reason I didn’t do it it didn’t 
ajjpear to me at that time that he had uh uh it didn’t ap­
pear to me that he invited any explanation of me at that 
timeTjNow if he had a said to me at that time uh in talking 
lie usually refers to me as Jess he says well, Jess, what 
happened on that thing yesterday, what was the situation,



R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Gross

— 110—

what was it about, but he didn’t do that because at least if 
he did I didn’t get the understanding that he did, let’s put 

/ it that way, I don’t want to say what he didn’t do but I 
want to say what I didn’t understand. If I had of under­
stood it that a way I would have been happy to explain it 
in his chambers uh and showed him everything that I had 
with that respect. That’s the reason why I didn’t do it it 
didn’t appear to me that the door was open at that time to 
explain it to him in his chambers.

Q. It didn’t appear to you that it was the proper thing 
for you to do as an attorney and officer of the court to say 
well, if Your Honor please, I have got a retainer which I 
found last night after this matter came up in Judge Mize’s 
court yesterday, that didn’t occur to you at all? A. Uh he 
indicated to me at that time according to the way I under­
stood it that he didn’t want to hear any information about 
it now but only at the proper time when the hearing was 
to occur. It didn’t appear to me that his pulse at that time 
was to the extent that he wanted to hear it at that time. I 
mean I would have been happy to have presented it to him 
if I had got the impression that that’s what he was seekingS*’**'-7***’*'" ..- ...  ̂ ............'
at that time in his chambers.

Q. But it was fresh on your mind this matter of the im­
portance of having a showing that you had been authorized 
to represent this woman Buthie Nell McBeth and her

— 111-

daughter in this proceeding Civil Action Number 3382 be­
cause it had just come up the day before in Judge Mize’s 
Court which was April the 5th, 1963 hadn’t it? A. That’s 
right, it was fresh on my mind.

Q. And you told us a minute ago that you had gone to 
your office and gone through all your files? A. That’s 
right.



110

Q. To determine whether or not yon had this retainer? 
A. That’s right.

Q. Yet yon didn’t mention it to Judge Cox on the date 
of April 6th, 1963? A. And I can go further by saying—

Q. Answer me and then explain please, you didn’t say 
a word to Judge Cox about having a retainer did you? A. 
That’s right, I didn’t.

Q. All right. A. Yet uh yet I had met this in the Court. 
I even went back to the office with Attorney Jack Young 
who came to my office at the time that I checked through 
the retainers on the same day in less than minutes as soon 
as I could get back to my office I went through that file and 
found that retainer and I said to Jack I said thank God I 
have got the retainer, I said I wasn’t certain whether I had 
it or not, I said I was disturbed there for a moment and I 
was aervous and as I went through them the name of 
Ruthie Nell McBeth was almost at the bottom near the last

— 112—

one, I was greatly perturbed and disturbed all until I 
reached the name of Ruthie Nell McBeth and then at that 
time I compared the signature of Ruthie Nell McBeth on 
the retainer with the signature on the copy of the affidavit 
that I had received so Jack Young and myself—

Q. The copy of the affidavit you received is a copy of 
this affidavit which was filed on April the 5th, 1963 to let 
her and her daughter out of the lawsuit? A. That’s right. 
Now on the 5th day of April what happened Attorney 
Young was there at the time we put the affidavit on my 
desk, I laid the retainer on my desk, then after laying the 
retainer and the affidavit we discussed and talked about it 
and at that time we said there’s no question about it, it 
certainly appears that these the handwriting matches. We 
also discussed the possibility whether she would deny it

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



I l l

was her handwriting which she didn’t of course, she ad­
mitted she signed it, she admitted that was her signature. 
That was done on the 5th day only minutes as soon as I 
got back to my office.

Q. All right now will you explain to the Court then why 
it was, Jess, that you and Medger Evers took off from 
Jackson on the afternoon of April the 6th, 1963 and went 
to Bertha Kirkland looking for Ruthie Nell McBeth if 
you had this document the retainer Exhibit number Re­
spondent’s Exhibit 1 in your hand on that day! A. Yes

—113—
sir, I can I can uh explain that.

Q. You did go up there didn’t you? A. I did go up 
there.

Q. And you went in the company of one Medger Evers 
didn’t you ? A. I did, I certainly did.

Q. And you had conversation with Bertha Kirkland 
didn’t you? A. Certainly did, yes sir.

Q. Did you see Ruthie Nell McBeth that day? A. I did 
not see Ruthie Nell McBeth that day.

Q. And that was the same day that you had been in 
Judge Cox’s office and he advised you that he was prepar­
ing an order— A. Now I don’t recall, just a moment, I 
don’t recall going up there on the 6th.

Q, Let me finish my question.

The Court: Jess, let him finish his question.

By Judge P yle:

Q. Was it or not the same day April 6th, 1963, the day 
that you were in Judge Cox’s office that you later went to 
Leake County to Bertha Kirkland’s house? A. On the 
same day?

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



112

Q. Yes. A. I did not go there on the 6th. It was some-
— 1 1 4 -

time over in the next week, it was several days after I 
received the citation order before I went there and as a 
matter of fact at the time I got the citation order Mr. 
Medger Evers was not in town. I made some calls nh tried 
to contact him, I called his office and I called his house, he 
wasn’t in town. It was not until on the following Sunday 
night which was the next day prior to the time that I re­
ceived the citation order on the 6th that I talked to Mr. 
Medger Evers at that time and I said by the way I men­
tioned to him I said now uh they have filed an affidavit in 
here that uh this shooting didn’t uh uh didn’t occur in her 
house and that sort of thing and in the discussion he said 
why yes they shot in her in her restaurant, they shot in 
Overstreet’s house, he says I know it, I went up there, I 
saw it, I took pictures of it, I know it, I know it to be a fact 
but I said in the cafe and he said yes. I said well when 
you came in you said into my office you indicated that they 
shot in various places, I said I didn’t even know at the time 
that she owned a restaurant or cafe or had any type of busi­
ness, he said they shot in these places, I assumed it was in 
a home and it would have been very easily for me to have 
put cafe there and would have been just as effective if I had 
put home there in my opinion before a court under the uh uh 
theory which I was advancing, certainly if I had known 
cafe I would have put it there so I said well what we 
have got to do is go up there and I still although she come 
in and said that she wasn’t my client, say she didn’t au-

— 115—
thorize me, I certainly did not at that time at any time 
then or now recognize her as not my client and any lawyer

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



113

dealing with a client who comes in later and says that 
yon didn’t represent1 that client that lawyer has a right 
to go and seek out that client, find him, talk to him, find 
out what happened, what is the reason for it so that's 
what I did, I made several went everywhere different 
places where they said she might be and we finally ended 
up at Bertha Lee Kirkland’s house and that was the time 
that I talked to Bertha Lee Kirkland.

Q. What did you tell Bertha Kirkland that night about 
your mission there? A. 11 was absolutely frank with her. 
I told her the reason I was there this affidavit had been 
filed in court stating you understand that she had not 
authorized me and I couldn’t understand why this hap­
pened when you and I told her and you were there and 
at the time I asked you was she going through with the 
lawsuit or did she intend to go into the lawsuit and you 
said you did and I didn’t understand why why it was. She 
said well uh uh said I didn’t I didn’t give you that under­
standing or something like that but any how I went to her 
uh not looking for her, my purpose wasn’t wasn’t Bertha 
Kirkland, (witness Brown pounding on witness stand with 
fist and unable to understand all he said) my purpose was to 
go to Ruthie Lee MeBeth to find out if Ruthie Lee McBeth

— 116—

had had uh had uh authorized her to bring this action, that’s 
what I wanted because the very thing I was in now is the 
very thing I sought desperately to avoid— (witness Brown 
pounding on witness stand with fist and unable to under­
stand)—so getting back to what I am saying is this that 
I went there because I thought I had a right to talk to my 
client. I still considered her my client because nobody the 
Board of Education never recognized my letter although 
they had notice that I had written them.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



114

Q. You took her as your client even though you had 
never talked to her or had one word of conversation with 
her did you? A. Even though I had been retained by her 
yes I took her as my client because I had been retained 
by her, just like many lawyers have been retained by 
clients who live in Europe or in New York that they have 
never seen, that’s nothing new.

Q. But you had the retainer Respondent’s Exhibit Num­
ber 1—• A. (Interrupting) I had the retainer but I don’t 
recall whether I had the retainer with me when I went 
up there, I don’t recall that whether I had the retainer at 
that time, but if I did I didn’t show it to to uh Bertha Lee, 
I mean to uh uh Bertha Lee Kirkland, I didn’t show it to 
her.

Q. You didn’t show it to her and you didn’t say a word 
about having it did you? A. I didn’t mention a word

—117—
about having it because I had no obligation or duty in my 
opinion to to show it to her. Now all lawyers you know 
do different. What I might do as a lawyer with respect 
to my client would be different from what you would do 
as a lawyer with respect to your client. There is not two 
lawyers who will react the same manner in dealing with 
their clients.

Q. But you knew uh as you have told us before you had 
found and discovered and had in your possession your 
retainer, Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1, at the time you 
arid Medger Evers went to Bertha Kirkland’s house after 
citation had issued? A. That’s absolutely correct.

Q. And you had conversation with her— A. (Inter­
rupting) I had conversation with her.

Q. (Continuing) about whether or not you have been 
authorized through Bertha Kirkland to represent Ruthie

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



115

Nell McBetli— A. (Interrupting) Well as a matter of 
fact—

Q. (Continuing) and yet you didn’t say a word to Bertha 
Kirkland about having a written authorization in this 
form! A. I didn’t say anything to her about having a 
written authorization in that form because I felt that I 
didn’t need to to say anything to her, the person to talk 
to was Ruthie Nell McBeth now.

Q. All right did you talk to Ruthie Nell McBeth! A. I 
did not talk to her because I was unable to find her and

— 118—

she told me that she was up there at her cafe there, we 
left there and went to the cafe, we knocked on the door, 
there was a padlock there, we made inquiry in the com­
munity, we went different places trying to find her and 
we couldn’t find her, if I had got to her what I am trying 
to find out I am trying to make a inquiry, I am trying to 
find out the same thing Judge Cox is trying to find out 
and we are both trying to find out, I am trying to find out 
what the discrepancy is, what did happen, where is the 
misconduct. I am trying to find out the situation. It was 
important that I talk to my client, sho I was up there 
looking for her, she was my client and I still consider her 
as my client and even today.

Q. Even though she hasn’t paid a nickel and hasn’t agree 
to pay a nickel— A. (Interrupting) Even though she had 
not paid a nickel and had not agreed to pay a nickel she 
is my client because she authorized me to represent her. 
Even though that retainer doesn’t purport to be a con­
tract for any payment of fees, you couldn’t go into court 
and collect a fee on that retainer, that retainer is an au­
thorization to authorize me you understand to represent 
her, not a contract for her to pay me at any time because 
I was not looking to her for pay.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



116

Q. And yon are telling the Court today that this au­
thorization was obtained by you or for you on December

—119—
the 20th, 1961— A. (Interrupting) That’s right, let see 
this, just a moment.

The Court: Let him finish his question, Jess.

By Judge P yle :
Q. (Continuing) and not after April the 6th, 1963? A. 

That retainer there that you see there was sent prior to 
December the 20th, 19 and 61 it was sent prior to Decem­
ber the 20th, 19 and 61 and I received it and I received 
it from Medger Evers’ office sometime after December the 
20th, 1961, and not at any other time other than after 
that time and was sent there before that time and I never 
touched it, I never sent a petition to the Board of Education 
until I first had that retainer because I knew and I have 
always knows that I protect myself in the best manner I 
can as a lawyer and particularly in these type of litiga- 
tion, consequently I never would have moved without it. 
Another thing too I had letter from the Board, the Board 
never recognized me, they didn’t do, also that the Board 
even when they went there these people have their names 
drawn off the Board never directed them, evidently if 
they did I had no notice of it to contact me. Now these 
same persons who had drawn this petition— (witness 
Brown shouting and talking in such a manner as unable 
to understand)—Those same people who told me to file 
it who authorized me to file it should have authorized

— 120—

me to take it off. I would have been glad to take it off,

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Cross



117

matter of fact I had no information, I could have put all 
53 of them on there.

Q. Now go back to your petition a minute, the one that 
you had to do with the preparation of, Court’s Exhibit 
Number 5, you knew that Buthie Nell McBeth’s name was 
not on that petition didn’t you? A. 'That’s right but I 
was not relying on that petition, that petition was for the 
purpose of being able when we came into Court to show 
that we had attempted and used everything we could for 
the purpose of getting the Leake County Board of Edu­
cation to uh uh recognize the fact that we had petitioned 
them. This was not I mean this was no authorization, I 
don’t consider it such, I never did consider it an authori­
zation. I only used this for the purpose of being able to 
come into court and say to the court that here in Feb­
ruary for the first time we filed the petition to the Board 
of Education. We heard nothing. We went back to them 
again the second time and filed the petition to the Board, 
we heard nothing, we have made every effort we could 
in order to get the Board to listen to us, they have failed 
to do so. That would have been the argument and it will 
be the argument in the Leake County case— (witness 
Brown shouting and pounding witness stand and unable 
to understand)—this petition is for the purpose of con­
vincing the court that we made repeated attempts in order 
to get recognized and we did not get recognized and no

— 121-

alternative but to come into the court and that’s what we 
did.

Q. Bertha Kirkland wasn’t one of the persons who au­
thorized you through this petition to use her as one of 
the persons seeking integration of the Leake County

R. Jess Broum—for Petitioner—Cross



118

Schools was she? A. I can answer that. I took the posi­
tion that she had already filed a petition under number 1, 
she was on the first petition.

Q. Bertha Kirkland hadn’t had she? A. Bertha Kirk­
land is on one of these petitions is she not, is she on one of 
them?

Q. Well, you find her if you can? A. She never been 
on any petition. All right, let’s see the other one.

Q. They are both right there.

The Court: I think the McBeth person is on one 
of them.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Bertha Kirkland never signed a one of them did she? 
A. I mean McBeth. All right. Let me go back. Ruthie Nell 
McBeth who is my client she signed the first petition, I 
mailed the first petition with her authority regardless of 
what she says, I mailed it, therefore Ruthie Me, Ruthie 
Nell McBeth or any other complainant in that cause had 
called me, had written me, had come to my office, had told

— 122—

me that I want my name withdrawn they would not have 
had to gone to the Leake County Board of Education,jo 
get their name withdrawn, all they had to do was let me 
know and I myself would have either written on or per­
sonally called upon the Board of Education— (witness 
Brown shouting and unable to understand)—

The Court: I think you are making argument now. 
Let’s just stick to facts, I am not interested in argu­
ments.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



119

A. All right back to the facts again uh is that this petition 
was used for the purpose of convincing the Court that we 
used every effort for the purpose of trying to get the uh 
Board of Education to listen to us with this respect, it 
has nothing to do with any agreement.

By Judge Pyle :
Q. But it is an indication of the persons in the community 

who were interested in such a procedure wasn’t it? A. Uh 
this petition? This petition are indication of the uh interest 
of the persons in the community, the petitioners to to uh 
for the relief in which they were asking.

Q. And you were on notice in 1962 sometime that Kuthie 
Nell McBeth was not one of those who was interested in 
pursuing the matter of filing a petition for the integration 
of the Leake County Schools by the way of this petition 
Court’s Exhibit Number 5?

—1 2 3 -
Attorney Ming: I will object to that question on 

the ground it makes an assumption about Ruthie 
Nell McBeth’s intentions which are not consistent 
with the evidence. We don’t have any evidence here 
as to what Ruthie Nell McBeth’s intentions were on 
whatever this date was.

The Court: I will let the witness answer as to 
what he understood, that’s what we are trying to find 
out. I overrule your objection.

A. Would you uh repeat that question?

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



120

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross 

By Judge Pyle :

Q. The question simply is that you were on notice some­
time in the year 1962 when this petition, Court’s Exhibit 
Number 5, was returned to you which was a time after you 
claim you had the retainer, Court’s Exhibit Number or 
Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1 for Identification, that 
Ruthie Nell McBeth’s name was not on that petition? A. 
I had notice that her name was not on the petition but I 
also had notice of her name was on the first petition and 
also had no notice to take it off neither by Ruthie Nell 
McBeth or any of the other original petitioners to the 
Board of Education.

(Court recessed at 12:15 P.M. until 1:30 P.M. for 
lunch.)

—1 2 4 -
Judge Pyle: May it please the Court, at the noon 

recess I discovered in the Court file the order which 
was entered pursuant to the motion that was filed 
by or on behalf of Ruthie Nell McBeth and her 
daughter to be dismissed which appears as Court’s 
Exhibit Number 2 for identification. I would like to 
ask the witness at this time to look at this order 
which is dated April 5th, 1963 and appears to be 
filed as of April 5th, 1963 in Civil Action Number 
3382 and after examining that order tell the Court 
whether or not you were present and were familiar 
with the content of that order at the time it was 
entered?

A. I was present.
Q. And it does reflect correctly the fact that you did 

not desire to oppose the motion filed by Ruthie Nell McBeth



121

to be dismissed as to herself and her daughter in this Civil
Action Number 3382! Is that right?

The Court: Did you get what he said?
The Court Reporter: No sir.
The Court: You want to say anything for the rec­

ord. He is not getting you you understand, you are a 
lawyer, I am not supposed to have to tell you about 
what goes on up here.

—125—
The Witness Brown: The answer to that was yes.
The Court: All right.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. I want to show you your complaint—

Attorney Ming: (Interrupting) Excuse me. When 
you referred to this you referred to it as marked as 
an exhibit did you ?

Judge Pyle: No.
The Court: I thought you did. I thought you re­

ferred to it as a marked exhibit.
Judge Pyle: I didn’t intend to if I did and 1 

didn’t think I did.
The Court: I thought you did.
Judge Pyle: Let the record reflect that the order 

which was entered by Judge Mize on April the 5th, 
1963 in Civil Action Number 33S2 sustaining the 
motion to dismiss on behalf of Ruthie Nell McBeth 
and her daughter, G-wennell McBeth, has not been 
heretofore marked as an exhibit in evidence but it is 
in the Court file as a part of the file and this pro-

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross



Pi. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

—126—
ceeding and we would like to ask that it be marked 
for identification as Court’s Exhibit Number 7 I 
believe.

The Court: Let’s see, isn’t this the order that you 
were intending to put in under another number and 
got the wrong order!

Judge Pyle: Yes.
The Court: I think it would be better to just sub­

stitute the exhibit. What number is that?
The Clerk: You withdrew it I believe, Judge Pyle, 

did you not.
Judge Pyle: I withdrew the order.
Attorney Ming: I suggest, Your Honor, if you 

substitute numbers you will confuse it because Your 
Honor sustained my objection based on the earlier 
order and if you substitute the number rather than 
giving it a new number it would be confusing what 
the Court’s ruling was.

The Court: Probably that’s right. All right, we 
will give it a new number.

—127—
The Clerk: That was number 6, what was that 

order?
The Court: That was an order with respect to 

some other parties withdrawing from the case.
Judge Pyle: It was number 6. That will be num­

ber 7. I thought I withdrew the offer in the record.
The Court: You did. You withdrew the question 

but I had already ruled on it.
Attorney Ming: That was number 6 according to 

your notes, Judge.



123

The Court: That’s right. All right, that may be 
marked Exhibit 7.

(Received and marked Court’s Exhibit 7.)

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Now I have placed before you once more your com­
plaint in Civil Action 3382, being Court’s Exhibit Number 
1 for identification. I also show you the petition which you 
testified that you prepared and that is now in evidence as 
Court’s Exhibit Number 5 and ask you to examine these 
two documents and tell the Court if it isn’t a fact that every 
name that you used as a plaintiff in Civil Action Number

—128—
3382 appears on this second petition, Court Exhibit Num­
ber 5, except the name of Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. That’s 
true, every name on, I mean, naw, just a moment before 
I go any further. What was your question again?

Q. I asked you if every plaintiff named in your com­
plaint—

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross

Attorney Ming: I am sorry, I can’t hear you, 
Judge.

Judge Pyle: I was just trying to help him.

Q. All right now I will ask you the question again. My 
question is isn’t it a fact that every person’s name that 
you used as a plaintiff in your complaint, Civil Action 
Number 3382, Court’s Exhibit 1 for identification, doesn’t 
appear as a signature on your petition, Court Exhibit Num­
ber 5, except the name of Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. The 
name of Ruthie Lee McBeth does not—

Q. Ruthie Nell. A. I mean Ruthie Nell McBeth does not 
appear on this petition.



124

Q. But the name of every other plaintiff in your com­
plaint in Civil Action 3382 does appear on this petition 
Court Exhibit Number 5 does it not? A. I wanted to be 
certain. Essie Lee Townsend, where is Essie Lee Town­
send.

- 1 2 9 -
Judge Pyle: If the Court please, I don’t care to 

waste any more time, the two documents speak for 
themselves.

A. Uh, I just wanted to be certain before I testified you 
asked a question every other name other than Ruthie Nell 
McBeth appear on here and I don’t want to make a state­
ment that every other name with the exception of Ruthie 
Nell McBeth appears on three until I am absolutely certain 
because these documents will speak for themselves and 
that was why I was taking time before I answered that 
question.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Cross

The Court: Are you ready to answer it now?

A. Not yet ready.

The Court: Well go ahead. All right, go to some­
thing else. If you had been that careful about this 
other thing I don’t believe we would have had this 
trouble, Jess.

A. The only thing I was trying to check off there now there 
are some here where two persons signed the petition, for 
instance like uh—

The Court: I can examine the petition. That kind 
of question really doesn’t help me anyway because 1



125

will have the whole thing, I can see what the facts 
are.

—130—
By Judge Pyle:

Q. You told us before lunch, Jess, that you and Medger 
Evers went to Bertha Kirkland’s home looking for Ruthie 
Nell McBeth after the order of this Court issued for you to 
show cause in this proceeding that we are in here today. 
How many times did you go to Leake County looking for 
Ruthie Nell McBeth after this order of the Court was 
entered on April 6th, 1963! A. Only made one trip.

Judge Pyle: We have no further questions, Your 
Honor,

The Court: All right.
Attorney Ming: Does Your Honor desire me to 

inquire of the respondent at this time! I am not 
familiar with what Your Honor’s practice is. Some 
judges do and some don’t.

The Court: Ordinarily I would say no but I be­
lieve in a case of this kind I would like to see a full 
development. Yes sir, I will let you proceed.

Attorney Ming: All right sir, thank you.
The Court: Did I understand you to say that jmu 

went to Leake County just to see Ruthie Nell Mc­
Bride !

—1 3 1 -
Attorney Ming: McBeth.
The Court: Ruthie McBeth I mean after the cita­

tion?

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner■—Cross

A. Yes sir.



126

Q. And yon didn’t see her. Did you make any provision 
for her contacting you or giving you any word or assistance 
such as you were seeking to get from her by going up 
there? A. I only told uh uh Euthie Nell McBeth’s mother 
that I would like to see her, would like to talk to her, that’s 
the only, but I don’t recall telling her to have her call 
me or contact me.

Q. And she never did contact you I assume? A. No sir, 
she did not.

The Court: All right.

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Mr. Brown, are you a member of the bar of the 
United States District Court of the Southern District of 
Mississippi? A. Yes sir.

Q. When were you admitted to the bar of this court? 
A. As near as I can recall I was admitted in the Summer 
I believe of 19 and 53 as near as I can recall.

Q. Keep your voice up. A. As near as I can recall it
—132—

was around the summer of 1900 and 53.
Q. And what judge ordered your admission to the bar of 

this court? A. Uh the judge that ordered my admission 
to the bar of this court was Judge Pyle, the, oh to this 
court.

Q. To this court? A. I am sorry, Judge Mize.
Q. Judge Mize? A. Judge Mize.
Q. Now you have testified in resjoonse to the inquiry by 

Judge Pyle with respect to your admission to the Bar of the 
State of Mississippi. At the time of your admission to the 
Bar of Mississippi was there any residence requirement

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



127

for admission to the Bar of Mississippi? A. At that time 
the residence the resident requirements was six months.

Q. Six months residence? A. Six months residence, 
that’s right, according to my recollection of what it was 
at that time.

Q. And had you resided how long had you resided in 
Mississippi at the time you were admitted to the Bar of 
Mississippi? A. Uh I had resided here at the time I was 
admitted to the Bar of Mississippi from 1900 and 46 when

—138—
I came to the State of Mississippi until I was admitted to 
the Bar in Mississippi.

Q. And when was that? A. That was in the Spring I 
believe as near as I can recall of 19 and 53, I think it was 
in the Spring of ’53.

Q. And what judge, if any, admitted you to the Bar of 
the State of Mississippi? A. At that time uh Judge uh 
Arnold Pyle uh who was then the Chancellor, the uh the at­
torney for the Court in this case, was then the judge of the 
Chancery Court of the First Judicial District of Hinds 
County and I was I appeared before him and was admitted.

Q. Now when you were asked about Court’s Exhibit 2 
being the motion to dismiss or in the alternative to remove 
the name of Gwennell McBeth, a minor by Ruthie Nell Mc- 
Beth, her mother and next friend can you tell us when you 
first saw that document? May the record show that I show 
to the witness Exhibit 2. A. I first saw this document on 
April the 5th. 1900 and 63.

Q. And in whose possession was that document when you 
first saw it? A. As nearly as I can recall I believe uh At­
torney Wells uh had the document I believe.

Q. Was Ruthie, where were you when you first saw the

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



128

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct

—134—
document? A. I was in the uh United States District 
Court Boom nil in the old court room uh at that time.

Q. And who was the Judge presiding? A. Judge Sidney 
Mize was presiding.

Q. Was Buthie Nell MeBeth present? A. She was not. 
Q. Now prior to April 5th, 1963 did you have any 

conversation with Buthie Nell MeBeth concerning that docu­
ment which is here Court’s Exhibit.21 _A.„,.I did not.

Q. Did you have any conversation with any person con­
cerning it? A. I had no conversation with any person uh 
concerning this document.

By the Court'.

Q. Had you ever told your New York associates that you 
had a contract with this woman Buthie Nell MeBeth? A. 
Uh I had informed the New York associates that I had re­
tainers of all of the uh complainants that I now have which 
hers was among them. As I pointed out she didn’t register 
me on my mind to the extent I could specify her particu­
larly.

The Court: I understand.

By Attorney Ming:
-135-

Q. Now Judge Pyle showed you an order which is here 
Court’s Exhibit 7 and asked you if you were in open court 
when that order was entered and I believe you testified you 
were, is that correct? A. That’s correct.

Q. And I believe he also asked you if you had opposed 
that order and you stated you had not, is that correct? 
A. That’s correct.



129

Q. Will you tell the Court why you didn’t oppose it? 
A. The reason why I didn’t oppose it at the time as I 
aforesaid it came uh rather suddenly, I had not had any 
prior notice of it and I at that time I was not in position 
even to dispute it because the name of Buthie Neil McBeth 
did not stand out with me as it does not. Uh frankly uh it 
was it was I didn’t know what position to take at that 
moment. The only thing that quickly came to my mind 
was that I wanted the Court to know that I was not inter­
ested in representing not only Buthie Nell McBeth but I 
was not interested in representing any person or persons 
who did not wish to go along ,and at that point I believe 
I stated or in substance I said to the Court that I am 
merely the lawyer or we are the lawyers, I don’t know 
whether I used I or we, not the complainants in the case 
and if there is any plaintiff who wants to get off of the 
case who wants to withdraw we have no objection to it.

— 136—
The Court: Was that of any source of embarrass­

ment to you before the Court to have a client tell you 
he never had authorized you to file a suit for him?

A. Yes sir.
Q. How much did it embarrass you? A. Yes sir, I was 

certainly embarrassed, I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment 
to tell this Court I was not.

Q. You were not embarrassed enough though to try to 
explain to Judge Mize that you had a contract or at least 
thought you had one? A. Well, at that moment frankly it 
came to my surprise to the extent I really didn’t know 
what to do at that time, I actually didn’t, I thought the 
main thing that came to me, Your Honor, was to get back 
to my office and see whether or not I had this this retainer.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



130

Q. What were you doing up there that morning, why were 
you at Court, you say you didn’t have any notice of the mo­
tion ? A. I had a notice of a, I had a notice of a motion to 
dismiss the suit. I didn’t have a notice of the affidavit, if 
I said I didn’t have a notice of a motion to dismiss I made 
a mistake.

Q. You knew about the motion but you didn’t know about 
the supporting affidavit until it was handed to you or 
handed to the Court in the court room, that’s what you are

— 137—

saying? A. Yes.

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, if I may perhaps I 
can clear up.

The Court: I understand him now.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Let me show you for identification Court’s Exhibit 6. 
When you refer to a motion that you had notice of is it the 
matter covered by that order, Court Exhibit 6, Your Honor, 
is the one which was identified and then the objection sus­
tained as to it because it did not bear on the question 
which Judge Pyle addressed to the witness.

The Court: Are you saying to me that another 
motion was noticed for that morning?

Attorney Ming: That’s correct, Your Honor.
The Court: And an order was entered on this 

noticed motion and then this other motion to get the 
McBeth woman out of the case wasn’t even noticed?

Attorney Ming: That’s my understanding, Your 
Honor.

The Court: Is that the way you understand it, 
Jess?

\

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct

—138—
A. Yes sir, that’s that’s my first notice the only notice 
that I received yon see I received a copy of the motion 
to dismiss uh.

By the Court:

Q. Well, then your answer to my question then as origi­
nally given to you is that you were up there on another 
motion when this motion was brought up that hadn’t even 
been noticed to get Ruthie Nell McBeth out of it and they 
gave you a copy of the motion in the court room when you 
were up there to be heard on another motion? A. Yes sir.

Q. Is that right? A. That’s correct, yes sir.

The Court: All right, go ahead.

By Attorney Ming:
Q. Now my question of you was whether the matter that 

you were appearing before Judge Mize on on April 5 was 
the matter referred to in Court’s Exhibit 6 for identifica­
tion? A. This is the order sustaining defendants’ mo­
tion, naw, this is, naw, strike that, this is this is order 
pursuant to defendants’ motion to dismiss where at the 
time it was taken under advisement and uh briefs were 
permitted to be filed. This is an order pursuant to the 
motion to dismiss the suit.

—139—
Q. Is that the matter that was before Judge Mize on 

April 5 as to which you had notice was the general motion of 
the defendants to dismiss the lawsuit, is that correct? A. 
That is correct.

Q. Now subsequently the complaint was dismissed, is 
that right, Mr. Brown? A. Yes it was subsequently dis­
missed, it was subsequently dismissed.



132

Attorney Ming: If the Court will bear with me just 
a moment, we have got so many papers here. I will 
ask the Court if I may have this document marked 
uh as Respondent’s Exhibit I will ask to have this 
document, Your Honor, as Respondent’s Exhibit 2 
for identification.

The Court: All right, let it be marked.
(Marked as Respondent’s Exhibit 2 for iden­

tification.)

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now Mr. Brown, I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 
Number 2 for identification and ask you if you have seen 
that document before and if so where? A. Uh a copy of 
this uh this is what is purported to be what appears to be 
a copy of a letter written by Judge Mize it says 8. C. Mize, 
U. S. District Judge, signed it S. C. Mize.

Q. Did you receive a copy of that letter in the mail?
— .140—

A. I did.
Q. Can you tell us about when you received it? A. I 

received it probably around maybe around June 25th or 
26th, 1963, I don’t know exactly.

Attorney Ming: I will offer this in evidence, Your 
Honor. I am sorry. The last time I offered some­
thing as I recall Your Honor suggested that I wait 
until respondent’s cause arose and I will if I may 
then withhold the tender of this until that time.

The Court: All right. You might let me know 
what it is.

Attorney Ming: Yes, Your Honor, this instrument 
I started to offer what this is if I may explain to

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



133

the Court is an informal statement in letter form 
by Judge Mize with respect to this reasons for 
granting the motion to dismiss and he starts off 
this is addressed to all counsel including Mr. Brown, 
he starts off I had hoped to write a formal opinion 
in the above styled matter but due to pressure of 
other litigation and the necessity of getting to this 
particular case as early as possible I was unable to 
do so and herewith give you this letter opinion on 
the matter and in the course of this three page single 
spaced letter opinion he sets out his grounds for 
granting the motion to dismiss and the principal 
ground is a failure in his judgment on the part 
of the plaintiff to exhaust available administrative

—1 4 1 -
remedies.

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, we submit that 
at this time or later that this letter opinion of 
Judge Mize would be immaterial as to the issues 
before the Court here in this proceeding, that that 
opinion goes to the Civil Action 33S2 in the first 
instance and not as to the citation or show cause 
order here.

The Court: All right, I will rule on that when you 
present it.

Attorney Ming: May I simply say, Tour Honor, 
at this point if I may for the record that it is our 
theory or my theory that the testimony which Mr. 
Brown gave this morning in response to the inquiry 
by Judge Pyle as to the allegation with respect to 
the shooting which the Court will remember as a 
basis for justifying nonexhaustion as a legal matter 
which Mr. Brown testified it was his legal opinion was

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



134

the way to do it makes the opinion of the District 
Judge ruling on the motion to dismiss relevant to 
the issues which are made here because Your Honor’s 
order refers explicitly and specifically to those allega­
tions contained in the complaint which is the rea­
son I offer or I have identified it and will offer it 
to the Court.

Q. Now Mr. Brown, I show you what I will ask the Court 
to have marked as Respondent’s Group Exhibit 3.

—142—
The Court: How many pages is that?
Attorney Ming: Consisting of 24 pages, Your 

Honor.
The Court: All right, that 24 page exhibit may be 

marked Respondent’s Exhibit 3 for identification.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 3 for Identifica­
tion.)

By Attorney Ming:

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 3 for identification, 
Mr. Brown, and ask you if you have ever seen those docu­
ments before? A. Yes sir, I have, I have seen them.

Q. Where did you first see them? A. I first saw these 
uh you say first saw the documents, you mean when did 
I first see the signed documents?

Q. That’s correct. A. I first saw the signed documents 
uh some I don’t recall but it was sometime prior to De­
cember, 1961, I don’t recall the exact time.

Q. And what does Respondent’s Group Exhibit 3 consist 
of, Mr. Brown? A. It consists of retainers from the vari­
ous persons whose names appear here authorizing me 
specifically to uh bring suit if deemed necessary or to take

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct

—143—
other avenues of remedies of any kind that I sought to 
take to represent them, it specifically authorizes me ex­
plicitly to represent them in an action to desegregate the 
schools of Leake County uh Mississippi.

Q. How many such retainers are contained in Respon­
dent’s Group Exhibit 3! Will you count them please? A. 
There are twelve.

Attorney Ming: And while I cannot offer them for 
the Court’s explanation these are retainers similar 
in form to Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for Identification 
and Respondent’s Exhibit 3 for Identification are 
retainers for the other named plaintiffs other than 
Ruthie Nell McBeth with Respondent’s Exhibit 1 of 
course the Court will remember dealing with Ruthie 
Nell McBeth.

The Court: How many complainants were there 
to that school suit against Leake County, you re­
member?

A. I think there were roughly as I can recall thirteen I 
think.

Q. Thirteen so then the combination of names on these 
two exhibits then they are the names of the complainants? 
A. Yes sir.

Q. Or plaintiffs? A. Yes sir.

The Court: All right.
—1 4 4 -

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, Court’s Exhibit 1 
shows that there are thirteen named complainants 
in that complaint.

The Court: All right,



136

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct 

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I believe you testified in response to an inquiry 
by Judge Pyle that you sent the document of which Court’s 
Exhibit 3 is a copy by registered mail to the Leake County 
School Board. Is that correct! A. That is correct.

Q. Did you request a return receipt! A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you receive a return receipt! A. Yes.
Q. Now when you sent that petition to the Leake County 

School Board did you include with it any letter of trans­
mittal! A. Yes, I did, on the first petition that I sent I 
included a letter of transmittal.

Q. Did you keep a copy of that letter of transmittal! 
A. Yes sir, I did.

Attorney Ming: I will ask the Court if I may 
to mark as Respondent’s Exhibit 4 for identification, 
5 for identification and 6 for identification the docu­
ments handed to the Clerk.

—145—
The Court: What are they for the record. Let’s 

get them in the record.
Attorney Ming: For the record Respondent’s Ex­

hibit 4 for identification is a registered receipt num­
ber 1908 bearing the Vicksburg, Mississippi cancella­
tion stamp.

The Court: All right, that may be so marked for 
identification.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 4 for Identifica­
tion.)

Attorney Ming: Respondent’s Exhibit 5 is a re­
turn receipt bearing registered number 1908 and 
bearing what purports to be a signature of ad-



137

dressee’s agent Gladys Lurch which I will ask to 
have marked as Respondent’s Exhibit 5.

The Court: All right, that may be so marked.
(Marked Respondent's Exhibit 5 for Identifica­

tion.)

Attorney Ming: The next one, Your Honor, is a 
copy of a letter bearing date February 23rd, 1962, 
a carbon copy addressed to Leake County Board of 
Education, Carthage, Mississippi, and bearing the 
typed name R. Jess Brown which I will ask to have 
marked as Respondent’s Exhibit 6 for Identification.

—146—
The Court: All right, that may be so marked.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 6 for Identifica­
tion.)

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now Mr. Brown, I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 4 
for Identification and ask you where you got it? A. I re­
ceived this uh at the registered window, the window where 
you register letters, the registered window in the United 
States Post Office Building.

Q. Where? A. Vicksburg.
Q. When did you receive it? A. February the 23rd, 1900 

and 62.
Q. Is that the date which it bears? A. That is the date 

which it bears.
Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 5 for Identification 

and ask you when you got that? A. I wonder if I could 
take this aloose just a moment.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner-—Direct



138

Attorney Ming: May we remove the staples, Your 
Honor?

The Clerk: I am sorry, I was trying to be very 
careful about that.

A. I got that sometime, I received this uh sometime uh 
subsequent to February the 24th, 19 and 62, it was post-

—147—
marked, it’s very difficult to determine here but it has a 
postmark on one side says February the 24th, 11 AM, it’s 
blotted out, you can’t read the year on that side, it says 
Mississippi, but over here where it says date delivered it 
has the 2nd 24th 62 date delivered.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. And what signature does it bear? A. The signature 
is Gladys Leach apparently, L-e-a-c-h.

Q. Now has that document remained in your possession 
since that time? A. It has.

Q. Now I show you, I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 6 
and ask you if that is a copy of the letter of transmittal 
that you testified a moment ago you sent with the petition 
to the Leake County School Board? A. This is a copy of 
the letter of transmittal which I did send with the first 
petition sent to the Leake County School Board.

Q. And is that a copy of the letter of transmittal which 
was included in registered number 1908 as to which Re­
spondent’s Exhibits 4 and 5 for identification apply? A. 
This letter of transmittal is pursuant to the petition that 
was sent to the Leake County School Board the first peti­
tion and also also this is the same letter that was that the 
registered return receipt was placed upon.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



139

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct

—148—
Q. Now I show you Court’s Exhibit 3 and ask you if 

that is a copy of the petition referred to in Respondent’s 
Exhibit 6 for Identification? A. Yes.

The Court: Let me see that petition please.
Attorney Ming: The petition.
The Court: Yes.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I show you, I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 1 
for Identification and ask you if that was in your possession 
at the time you mailed the letter the copy of which is here 
Respondent’s Exhibit 6 for Identification? A. Yes, that 
was in my possession at the time. That was in possession.

Q. Now I believe you testified in response to Judge 
Pyle’s inquiry that you got Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for 
identification sometime in December, 1961. Is that correct? 
A. I got it sometime either in December or prior to De­
cember, 1961.

Q. Signed? A. Uh just a moment. Uh just a moment. 
I didn’t understand, state your question again.

—149—
Q. Well, my question is let me ask it then the other way. 

When did you get Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for Identifica­
tion? A. I got Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for Identification 
sometime prior to December, 1961, I mean, just a moment. 
I got this signed one after December, 1961, I mailed it 
sometime prior, I mean I carried it down there sometime 
prior to December, 1961.

Q. Well, now who prepared the form of Respondent’s 
Exhibit 1 for Identification? A. Uh is that this form 
here!



140

Q. Yes. A. Uli I prepared this form.
Q. Did yon have it mimeographed? A. Uh I prepared 

it and also had it mimeographed. When I say I prepared 
it I don’t recall whether I actually cut the stencil myself 
but I either, I am sure I didn’t cut the stencil, but I pre­
pared the information. I furnished the substance.

Attorney Ming: Now I show you a document 
which I will ask the Court to have marked as Re­
spondent’s Exhibit 7 for identification, being a fac­
simile executed of a petition which has been here 
marked as Court’s Exhibit Number 4 for identifica­
tion which is a photostat.

—150—
The Court: All right, that looks like a carbon 

copy to me, but it may be marked for identification.
Attorney Ming: I simply meant to refer to the 

fact that it had been, signed, Your Honor, when I 
referred to perhaps executed duplicate would be a 
better phrase.

The Court: All right.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 7 for Identifica­
tion.)

By Attorney Ming:

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 7 for identification, 
Mr. Brown, and ask you where you got that? A. When you 
say I got that you mean when did I get the uh ?

Q. No, where did you get it? A. Oh, where. This was 
obtained, you mean after it was signed, is that right?

Q. That’s correct, as it stands now when did you get it? 
A. As it stands now I got this instrument from Mr. Medger 
Evers.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



141

Q. Can you tell us about when you got it? A. I don’t 
recall exactly uh when I got it.

Q. At the time that you got that carbon copy which is 
here Respondent’s Exhibit 7 did you also receive the origi-

—151—
nal? A. I received the original back and this copy also 
was accompanied with the original signed, that is the origi­
nal and the copy signed.

Q. Now what did you do with the original? A. I mailed 
the original to the Leake County School Board.

Q. Did you send it by registered mail? A. I did.
Q. Did you request a return receipt? A. I did.

Attorney Ming: I will ask the Court to have 
marked as Respondent’s Exhibit 8 for Identification 
a registered a return receipt registered number 1185 
addressed to R. Jess Brown.

The Court: All right, it may be marked for iden­
tification.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 8 for Identifica­
tion.)

The Court: All right, you may proceed.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 8 for identifi­
cation and ask you when you received that? A. I received 
that uh sometime subsequent to August the 8th, no, yes, 
August the 25th, correction on that August the 8th, August 
the 25th I received uh this registered return receipt that

—152—
you have submitted here.

Q. Have you completed your answer? A. August the 
sometime after August the 25th, 1962.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



142

Q. Now did you send a letter of transmittal to the Board 
of Education of Leake County with the original of Respon­
dent’s Exhibit Number 7 ? A. So far as I can recall I did 
not. I don’t recall sending a letter of transmittal with the 
second petition.

Q. Now— A. (Interrupting) As near as I can remem­
ber. My file doesn’t indicate it.

Q. Now I show you Court’s Exhibit 4, I may inquire, 
Your Honor, it’s marked for identification and I can’t recall 
whether or not this was admitted in evidence or not. I 
show you Court’s Number 4 for Identification which pur­
ports to be a copy of a petition bearing a number of names 
of persons and ask you if that copy is in the condition 
which the petition was that you mailed in February, 19621 
A. It is not in the same condition as it was in when I 
mailed it uh in February, 1962 because there were no 
markings on the uh margin nor were there any uh black 
outs of names apparently to have been scratched off as 
shown here. In other words it was no such scratches and 
uh and on this on this copy which certainly appears to be 
the copy of the original petition I sent, the first petition 
I sent shows uh a number of scratch outs showing that

—1 5 3 -
names have been scratched, in fact all have been scratched 
on the first page with the exception of three and there are 
also a number been scratched out on the second page.

Q. Now did you keep a copy of the petition which you 
mailed to the School Board in February, 1962! A. Uh I 
kept a copy of the petition.

Attorney Ming: I will ask the Court to mark—
Witness Brown: (Interrupting) In February.
Attorney Ming: (Continuing) as Respondent’s

Exhibit 9 for identification a duplicate, a signed fac-

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



143

simile of a petition addressed to the Leake County 
School Board.

The Court: All right, it may be so marked.
(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 9 for Identifi­

cation.)

By Attorney Ming:

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 9 for identification 
and ask you if that is a copy of the petition you mailed 
to the Leake County School Board in February, 1962 which 
you retained? A. This is the uh copy of the petition that 
I mailed with the exception when I mailed it these names 
did not appear on it.

—15T—
Q. Well, now did those names, by those names you re­

ferred to those names written in longhand, is that correct? 
A. Yes, the names that are written in longhand did not 
appear on this copy when I mailed it to the Leake County 
School Board.

Q. The signatures did not appear on there when you 
mailed it to the School Board! A. That’s right, naw, not 
the School Board, I ’m sorry. When I mailed it to the 
School Board yes it did appear but when I delivered it to 
uh uh had it delivered, uh you didn’t ask that question. 
Answering your question again these names did appear on 
there when it went to the School Board.

Q. Now is there any difference between Respondent’s 
Exhibit 9 for identification as you hold it in your hand and 
as it appeared at the time you mailed the original to the 
Leake County School Board? A. Is there any difference 
between the one that I hold in my hand and the one that I 
mailed to the Leake County School Board?

11. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



144

Q. That’s correct, that’s my question. A. TJh you talk­
ing about this particular instrument.

Q. Talking about Eespondent’s Exhibit 9 for identifica­
tion which you have in your hand? A. There is no differ­
ence with the exception that this writing over here didn’t 
appear on it.

—155—
Attorney Ming: May the record show that the wit­

ness is referring to the legend “Respondent’s XI 
5-2-63, E. A. Knight, Reporter”.

Q. Is there anything else? A. Also the writing that ap­
pears on the upper right hand corner both uh longhand 
and also stamped writing that did not appear.

Attorney Ming: May the record show that the 
witness is referring to the stamp of the Clerk of this 
Court marking and to the words mailed to Board 
Feb. F-e-b. 23, 1963 in longhand and a pencil figure 
4 with a circle around it.

Q. Is that correct, is that what you are referring to, Mr. 
Brown? A. That’s right. That did not appear on the uh 
the one sent to the Board.

Q. Now with reference to the longhand in pencil in the 
upper right hand corner who put that on there? A. I did, 
I placed that on there.

Q. Is that your handwriting? A. That is my handwrit­
ing.

Q. When did you place it on there? A. I placed that on 
there the evening or night of April the 5th, 1900 and 63.

Q. And in what connection did you put that longhand
- 1 5 6 -

legend on there? A. TJh I had appeared in Court on April

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



145

the 5th, 1900 and 63 at what at such time uh the affidavit 
purported to be the affidavit of Buthie Nell MeBeth uh set­
ting forth that she wished to withdraw and she wasn’t 
retained. It was submitted uh presented to the Court on 
April the 5th, 1900 and 63 and after that I went back to 
my office and checked my file and as I checked my file and 
checked my uh return receipts uh it was my intention to 
put mailed to Board February the 23rd, 1900 and 62. I 
inadvertently on that night put 1963, but was copying uh 
this attempting to copy this information from the regis­
tered return receipt.

Q. Now I call your attention to Bespondent’s Exhibit 9 
for Identification on page 3 in the left hand margin the 
words in longhand her signature placed here. Do you know 
whose handwriting that is! A. That is my handwriting 
and why I did that uh I had a retainer. I also had a copy 
of the affidavit uh which she had executed and was pre­
sented to the Court on April the 5th in my office so I laid 
out this instrument—■

Q. (Interrupting) Bespondent’s Exhibit 9 for identifica­
tion? A. Yes, Bespondent’s Exhibit 9 for identification 
on my desk. I also laid out the retainer and compared the 
retainer with uh the Bespondent’s Exhibit Number 9 for

—1 5 7 -
Identification, is that correct, and I looked at the handwrit­
ing on the retainer and also on this uh Exhibit 9, petition, 
respondent’s petition, Exhibit 9. Then I took to be cer­
tainly certain about it I also took the copy of the affidavit 
and placed it along with the others to determine in my 
opinion as to whether or not this was truly her signature.

The Court: I have never heard her signature dis­
puted. Let’s get on something else. The signature is 
not in dispute.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



146

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct 

By Attorney Ming:

Q. When did you put those words her signature placed 
here on that document? A. I put those words there on the 
either on the afternoon or the evening of April 5th, 1900 
and 63.

Q. Now in any other respects other than those you have 
testified to does Respondent’s Exhibit 9 for identification 
as it is before the Court today any different than the origi­
nal which was mailed to the Leake County School Board 
in February, 1962? A. Other than the exceptions that I 
have pointed out there is there is no difference between uh 
this one and the corresponding petition that I sent to the 
Leake County Board.

Q. Now I believe you testified in response to Judge 
Pyle’s inquiry this morning that sometime in 1962 you 
went up to Leake County and discussed this matter with

- 1 5 8 -
various Leake County residents. Is that correct? A. 
That’s correct.

Q. And I believe you testified that you could not recollect 
the date on which that occurred. Is that correct? A. 
That’s correct.

Q. I believe you also testified that you uh took some 
notes with respect to various information on the occasion 
of that visit. Is that correct? A. That’s correct.

Attorney Ming: I will ask the Court to mark as 
Respondent’s Exhibit 10 for identification 3 pages, 3 
yellow pages bearing pencil longhand.

The Court: Is that some contemporaneous mem­
oranda which he made?

Attorney Ming: Yes sir.
The Court: I don’t think that would ever become 

competent as evidence but I think he may make such



147

use of it as he may wish to make of it to refresh his 
memory but it could never become evidence.

Attorney Ming: I propose to show to him to have 
him identify it so he can make that use of it if I may, 
Your Honor.

—159—
The Court: You may let him do that but it would 

never become evidence but he can take it and refresh 
his memory without it being marked so I will let 
him make that use of it under the Shopbook Rule.

Attorney Ming: All right, in that event I will 
withdraw the request to have it marked.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. I show you a three page longhand three page yellow 
sheets bearing longhand and ask you whose handwriting 
that is? A. That is my handwriting.

Q. And will you tell the Court when those notes were 
made if you know? A. Those notes were made upon my 
second visit to Leake County at the time that I went up to 
uh recheck on who uh just the situation how we stood on 
this suit that I testified to.

Q. Now did you have any correspondence with Derrick 
Bell or with any of the other lawyers with whom you were 
associated concerning that trip to Leake County ? A. As 
near as I can recall I did.

Q. Well, now did you keep a copy of that correspond­
ence? A. Yes, I did.

—1 6 0 -
Attorney Ming: I will ask to have marked as Re­

spondent’s Exhibit 11 for identification, I am sorry, 
Respondent’s Exhibit 10 for identification carbon

It’ . Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



148

copy of a letter addressed to Mr. Derrick A. Bell 
and bearing the typewritten name R. Jess Brown.

The Court: All right, it may be marked for identi­
fication.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 10 for Identifica­
tion.)

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 10 for identifi­
cation call your attention to the date which it bears and 
ask you if that refreshes your recollection with respect to 
the date of your second visit to Leake County! A. Ac­
cording to this letter the letter is dated June 16th, 1962 to 
Mr. Derrick A. Bell at New York.

Q. My question of you is does that copy refresh your 
recollection as to the time of your visit to Leake County! 
A. Uh to the extent that uh it was prior to June 16th, 1962.

Q. Now was that the occasion on which you made the 
pencil notes to which I have called your attention on 
the yellow sheets! A. When I made the trip there that’s 
the time that I made the pencil notes.

Q. Now I believe Judge Pyle asked you this morning who
—161—

was present on that occasion and you weren’t able to tell 
him the names of the people. Now I ask you to look at 
those pencil notes and see if those notes refresh your recol­
lection as to who was present and then I ask you the ques­
tion who was present on that occasion if it does refresh 
your recollection! A. Uh yes, it does uh.

Q. Well, will you tell us who was there with your recol­
lection refreshed! A. Willie Earl Lewis, wife Thelma 
Lewis, uh Lesper Griffin.

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



149

Q. Lesper? A. L-e-s-p-e-r Griffin according to the way 
I copied it down that night. Uh Smith Griffin.

The Court: Let’s move along as quickly as we can. 
I am going to stop at four o’clock.

A, I might add this as we go. In some instances either 
one or the other was there. I don’t recall, for instance like 
either the man was there and gave his wife’s name or the 
wife was there and gave the husband’s name. You under­
stand what I am saying now. In other words—

By Attorney Ming:
Q. (Interrupting) My question of you is to examine those 

notes and then advise the Court with your memory so re­
freshed as to who was present on the occasion that you are

— 162—

testifying in Leake County?

The Court: Just give us the best you can. Just 
tell us what you remember about it.

A. The best of my judgment uh most of these persons were 
there.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct

The Court: He asked you to name them. 
Attorney Ming: We want you to name them, Mr. 

Brown ?

A. I think Willie Earl Lewis, uh Mrs. Dovie Hudson uh I 
believe was there, Mrs., Mrs. L. Y. Overstreet I think was 
there, uh Essie Lee Townsend I believe and also the mother 
of Buthie Nell McBeth was there. Now as I say uh there 
could have been others they were there because in a situa­
tion where they either according to these notes either they



150

were there at the time these people listed here, some of them 
either were were there or they had their wives there or 
wives had their husbands there or in the instance of Ruthie 
Nell McBeth her daughter was not there but uh Ruthie Nell, 
I mean uh but her mother was there.

Q. Well, now were there any other people there. You 
have given us the names of four or five as I recall. Were 
there any others ? A. Uh there were a number of people—

—163—
Q. (Interrupting) Well I call your attention to your 

notes and ask you to tell me if you can who else was there ?

The Court: Listen to his question, Jess, and if you 
want to refresh your memory you are entitled to, 
that’s been a long time ago. I understand you made 
those notes at the time and if you did you are en­
titled to look over those notes and refresh your 
memory and just answer his question, don’t answer 
some other question.

A. Well, I didn’t want to get into uh a situation where 
some of these persons weren’t there and I name them and 
allege that they were there uh because what the situation is 
some of these people most of these people were there al­
though there were some who either their husbands or 
wives were there.

The Court: If you don’t remember and your 
memoranda doesn’t help you well just ask him an­
other question, counsel.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Can you name any other people who there after look­
ing at your memorandum other than those you have given 
us? A. Uh James, did I name James Overstreet?

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



151

Q. Yes. A. And uh Mrs. L. Y. Overstreet. Now either 
one or both were there but I just can't recall but I think.

—164—
Q. Any others? A. Mrs. Dovie Hudson.
Q. You named her? A. I think Lesper Griffin uh Lesper 

Griffin.
Q. You named him. A. And Smith Griffin. Uh Edgar 

Townsend, did I name him?
Q. No. Edgar Townsend. A. Essie Lee Townsend. Uh 

Bertha Kirkland was there.
Q. You named her. A. Oh, I named her.

The Court: I don’t believe he had given the name 
before. He had called her by her relationship to 
McBeth.

A. .Tim Dodson, I better go back over that again.

The Court: That’s all right.

A. Uh Jim Dodson. Velma Dodson. Johnny Hudson. 
Have I given, what was that one you called my attention to 
just a moment ago?

Attorney Ming: The Court was referring to 
Bertha Kirkland. Now Mr. Brown,—

A. (Interrupting) I would say, I would like to say here this 
is as near as I can remember that was there at the time 
from referring to this this this instrument that I have

—165—
The Court: I take it your memoranda then doesn’t 

contain a list of the names of the people who were. 
Is that right?

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



152

A. Uh some of the people were there that’s on this memo­
randa and some weren’t there. Here’s what happened—

Q. You weren’t trying at the time though to make a list 
of people who were there? A. I was not trying to make a 
list of the people who were there at that time but I was 
consulting with people who were there to determine be­
cause some of the people were there themselves who indi­
cated that they wanted to go along.

The Court: I understand.

A. And they was some either the wife was there or the 
husband was there but I was interested in getting both the 
wife and the husband.

The Court: All right, you have told us that. Go 
ahead and ask him a question.

A. I just wanted to try to tell the whole thing.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I believe you also testified in response to in­
quiries by Judge Pyle this morning that sometime later

— 166—

after that uh meeting and prior to the time when the 
complaint was filed in this lawsuit that you received from 
Derrick Bell copies of a proposed complaint. Is that cor­
rect? Did you so testify? A. Uh I did receive copies of a 
uh a proposed complaint, yes sir.

Q. I believe you testified that you checked over those 
complaints that he sent you. Is that right? A. That is 
correct.

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



153

Q. Now was the complaint which he sent yon he first sent 
you the one you filed! A. Uh the complaint that he first 
sent me was not the one I filed because after checking it I 
found that there was there was an error there with respect 
to the to the to the sheet, the first sheet.

Q. And what did you do when you discovered that uh 
error! A. What I did then was uh I uh I either 1 think I 
called uh Attorney Bell in New York or either talked to him 
or either talked to Attorney Jack Greenberg I believe and 
on the phone he said all right said send it back and we will 
make the correction and at the time we discussed whether 
or not he should I should either make it myself in the office 
and scratch over it and make the correction and he said 
well the best thing to do is just send it on back and we will 
do it over again and send it back.

—167—
Q. Now do you recall what the correction was that you 

had decided was necessary ! A. I don’t recall what the cor­
rection was without seeing the instrument, see if I have any 
references, compare the the one that was filed with the uh 
one that was first sent, uh particularly the first page.

Q. Well, did you keep a copy of the page or pages which 
you thought should be changed! A. I did keep as near as 
I can recall a copy in my file of the page or pages I thought 
should be changed.

Attorney Ming: I will ask the Court to mark as 
Respondent’s Exhibit 11 for identification a two page 
document mimeographed headed the United States 
District Court for the Southern District of Missis­
sippi and one of the pages numbered three.

The Court: There are two pages!
Attorney Ming: Two pages, yes sir.

B. Jess Broivn—for Petitioner—Direct



154

The Court: Page one and page three?
Attorney Ming: There is a first page that’s un­

numbered but the second is numbered three.
-—168—

The Court: All right, those two pages may be 
marked for identification.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 11 for Identifica­
tion.)

By the Court:

Q. As I understand it this complaint when drawn and 
filed in this Court was prepared by Derrick Bell, a lawyer 
in New York City? A. And his associates.

Q. You don’t know which one of his associates prepared 
it? A. I don’t know actually. I couldn’t testify to that, I 
wasn’t there looking at it.

Q. Is he the same person at your counsel table that’s rep­
resenting you here in this case? A. Yes sir.

Q. It was either he or one of his associates that made 
the final draft of the instrument that was filed? A. May I 
answer you by saying that as I understand it to be.

Q. Yes. That’s right. A. I wasn’t there looking at it. I 
couldn’t testify to that.

The Court: I understand that. All right, go ahead.

—169—
By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 11 for identifi­
cation together with Court’s number 1 for identification 
which is the complaint in this cause and ask you if by ex- 
aming those two documents it will refresh your recollection 
as to the changes which in your opinion were made neces-

R. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Direct



155

sary before the complaint was filed? A. (Witness com­
paring two documents.)

The Court: I can make the comparison and see 
what was left out.

Attorney Ming: All right, sir, I will proceed. 
Those are always difficult questions of a witness 
anyway.

Q. Now Mr. Brown, did Derrick Bell and his associates 
consult with you with respect to the preparation of this 
complaint? A. Yes, they did, they consulted with me.

Q. Can you tell us over what period this complaint was 
in preparation? A. Uh I received'—

Attorney Ming: My question of him, Your Honor, 
was over what period was the complaint in prepara­
tion.

A. Uh the complaint uh was actually in preparation some­
time shortly before I went down to Leake County the sec-

—170—
ond time.

The Court: What he wants to know is how long a 
period of time was it in the process of being pre­
pared. That’s what he is trying to find out I think.

A. Oh I imagine some several months I imagine.

By Attorney Ming:
Q. Three months, four months, what do you mean by 

several months? A. Uh just a matter of dates uh it was 
between March the 7th uh 1963 and sometime uh I don’t

B. Jess Broivn—for Petitioner—Direct



156

recall the date but uh the concentration upon preparing 
actually this complaint was uh between the time that I last 
went down there and the time it was filed, that was really 
the last time I went to Leake County and the time it was 
filed.

Q. With whom did you confer and discuss the complaint, 
what lawyers? A. Uh we discussed the complaint with 
Mr. Bell, Mr. Jack Greenberg but most of the complaint 
was with with Mr. Bell.

Q. Now where did those discussions take place? A. All 
of those discussions took place on the telephone mostly 
with the exception there might have been uh a letter or two, 
I don’t recall, I just don’t recall. They either had to be by 
telephone or by letter because I did not go to New York 
anytime during that during the period that we weer inter-

—171—
ested in this case.

Q. Has any other plaintiff listed on that complaint com­
plained to you that you did not have authority to represent 
them? A. Uh no sir, no others, there has been no others 
complained to me or to anyone else that I know of.

Attorney Ming: I have no further questions, Your 
Honor.

The Court: All right. Anything further, Judge 
Pyle?

Judge Pyle: Just one or two questions, Your 
Honor.

Recross Examination by Judge Pyle :

Q. I place back before you the list of names that you 
were using to refresh your memory a moment ago in re­
sponse to questions being propounded by counsel and ask

B. Jess Brown—for Petitioner—Recross



157

you to look at that and tell the Court very frankly and 
candidly if that in anyway represents or undertakes to 
represent the names of the persons who were present on 
any visit that you made to Leake County in connection with 
this litigation! A. Uh actually I had a separate list that 
listed uh people were present.

The Court: Jess, just answer his question.
—172—

A. This does not, this does not purport to.

Judge Pyle: We have no further questions. 
Attorney Ming: I have nothing further, Tour 

Honor.
(Witness excused.)
The Court: All right, who will you have.
Judge Pyle: May it please the Court, we rest the 

case for the Court so far as our proof is concerned. 
The Court: All right.
(Petitioner rests.)
The Court: All right. Who will you call! 
Attorney Ming: I would like to be heard on a mo­

tion which I think technically would be a finding to 
that the respondent has made a sufficient showing in 
response to the order of April 2nd, April 6th, 1920, 
as amended by the order of April 20, 1963 that the 
respondent had not been guilty of any improper 
conduct as a member of the Bar of this Court. I 
should like if I might to summarize the evidence as 
I understand it before the Court in support of that 
motion and if the Court would give me would take

R. Jess Brown.—for Petitioner—Recross



Motion

—173—
about a five minute recess so that I could get my 
notes together.

The Court: Is that your motion!
Attorney Ming: Yes sir.

'"’The Court : I am going to let you put your evi- 
/ dence on and I will hold your motion. L want to hear 

everything that there is to be said in connection with 
a matter of this kind and I will just reserve ruling 
on your motion.

.^  Attorney Ming: Without any waiver on my part,
Your Honor, to the right of argument.

The Court: That’s correct.
Attorney Ming: I still, Your Honor, would like to 

take a five minute recess.
The Court: All right, we will take a five minute 

recess.

(Court reeessed at 3:07 P.M. to 3:12 P.M.)
The Court: All right.

-1 7 1 -
Judge Pyle: May it please the Court, Mr. David­

son asked to be excused, he had an errand to run and 
he would come in a little bit later.

The Court: All right.
Attorney Ming: I will call as witness Mrs. Winson 

Hudson.



159

W inson  G ates H udson called as a witness for and on 
behalf of Respondent, was sworn and testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. What is yonr name? A. Winson Gates Hudson.
Q. And how do you spell that first name, W-i-n-s-t-o-n? 

A. W-i-n-s-o-n.
Q. W-i-n-s-o-n and are you married or single! A. Mar­

ried.
Q. And what is your husband’s name! A. Lester Cleo 

Hudson.
Q. Lester Cleo Hudson. Mrs. uh Hudson, if you will keep 

your voice up so the Judge can hear you, so Judge Pyle 
and these other lawyers can hear you we will appreciate it. 
Where do you live, Mrs. Hudson! A. Leake County, 
Carthage.

— 175—
Q. In Mississippi! A. That's right.
Q. Do you know Ruthie Nell McBeth! A. Yes, I do.
Q. How long have you known her! A. All her life I 

guess.
Q. Do you know Bertha Kirkland! A. Yes.
Q. How long have you known her? A. I would say about 

uh run since Ave was small children six or seven years old.
Q. Will you keep your voice up, Mrs. Hudson, so that 

we can hear you? A. OK.
Q. Do you know Dovie Hudson? A. Yes, I do.
Q. Is Dovie Hudson any kin to you? A. A sister.
Q. Do you know Jim Dodson? A. Yes.
Q. Where does he live? A. He lives in Harmony com­

munity.
Q. Is that the community in which you live? A. Yes.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent■—Direct



160

Q. Do you know Alice Greer? A. Yes.
Q. Is she any kin to you? A. Sister.
Q. Your sister? A. That’s right.
Q. Do you know Henrene Greer? A. Yes.
Q. Is she any kin to you? A. Second cousin.
Q. Do you know Lesper Griffin? A. Yes.
Q. Where does he live? A. She live in the—
Q. I am sorry. Where does she live? A. She live in the 

Harmony community.
Q. Do you know Johnny Hudson? A. Yes.
Q. Is he any kin to you? A. My nephew.
Q. Your nephew? A. That’s right.
Q. Do you know Willie Earl Lewis? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know O. W. McKee? A. Yes.

— 177—

Q. Where do Mr. McKee and Mr. Lewis live if you know? 
A. Mr. McKee live bout two mile from me and Willie Earl 
Lewis live about four or five.

Q. For or five miles from you? A. Something like that. 
Q. You know James Overstreet? A. Yes.
Q. Where does he live? A. He live about three mile 

from me.
Q. You know Essie Lee Townsend? A. Yes.
Q. Where does she live? A. She live in the same com­

munity bout five mile.
Q. Do you know Dock Sanders? A. Yes.
Q. Where does he live? A. He live in the same commu­

nity bout three and half miles.
Q. Do you know Melodia Viverette? A. Yes.
Q. Where does she live? A. In the community bout two 

and half miles.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

— 176—



161

Q. So that all those people whose names I have asked 
yon about live in the Harmony community where you live? 
A. Yes.

—178—
Q. Is that correct. Did they live in that community in 

1961? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know R. Jess Brown? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you known him! A. Ever since ’61.
Q. Ever since 1961? A. Just personally since ’61. I 

seen him befo then.
Q. You had seen him before that? A. I had seen him 

befo that but didn’t say anything to him, just saw him.
Q. Well, now how did you happen to meet him in 1961? 

A. Uh we came to Jackson to meet Constance Motley and 
he was there.

Q. You say we came to Jackson to meet Constance 
Motley. Who was with you? A. It was a group of us. 
Uh you want me to name them?

Q. Yes, if you can. A. My sister and my husband and—
Q. (Interrupting) Now so we can keep this straight when 

you say your sister do you mean Mrs. Q-reer? A. Dovie 
Hudson.

Q. Dovie Hudson was with you. Who else was with you? 
A. Jim Dodson.

—179—
Q. Jim Dodson. Who else? A. Uh Willie Griffin and 

his wife. Willie Griffin and his wife. He’s not on there.
Q. He’s not one of the plaintiffs. Is that correct? A. 

He was one but he he uh had his name taken off at the 
Superintendent’s office in Carthage.

Q. Was there anybody else with you on that occasion 
when you met Mr. Brown? A. It was more than that, I 
can’t think of them right now.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent■—Direct



162

Q. Well, yon have named your sister, Mrs. Dovie Hud­
son, your husband, Willie Griffin, can you tell us how 
people there were? A. Ten I believe. I believe it was ten 
of us, two cars.

Q. And were they all people who lived in the Harmony 
community! A. Yes, all of us were from the Harmony 
community.

Q. And where did you meet Mr. Brown on that occasion! 
A. In the NAACP office, Masonic Temple.

Q. In Jackson! A. In Jackson here.
Q. On Lynch Street, is that correct! A. On Lynch 

Street.
Q. Who else was present! You have testified you came 

there to see Mrs. Motley and you met Mr. Brown and there
— 180—

were the ten of you. Who else was present! A. Medger 
Evers.

Q. Medger Evers. Did you know Mr. Evers prior to that 
time! A. Yes.

Q. When had you first met him! A. I met him met him 
all along, my my niece married his brother. I have been 
knowing him a long time.

Q. You had known him a long time! A. Yes sir.
Q. Now were you at that time a member of the National 

Association for the Advancement of Colored People! A. 
Yes.

Q. Were any of these other people who were with you 
members of the NAACP! A. Yes.

Q. How many of them were members of the NAACP! 
A. All of us.

Q. They were all members of the NAACP! A. Yes.
Q. Of what branch or chapter, Mrs. Hudson! A. What 

beg your pardon!

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



163

Q. What branch or chapter of the NAACP? A. The 
Leake County chapter.

—181—
Q. The Leake County Chapter? A. That’s right.
Q. By the way do you hold any office in that organiza­

tion? A. Yes.
Q. What office do you hold? A. Now?
Q. You hold an office now? A. At the time or now.
Q. Did you hold an office in 1961? A. Oh yes.
Q. What office did you hold? A. Second vice president.
Q. Do you hold an office now? A. Yes.
Q. And what office do you hold now? A. President.
Q. You are now president. How long have you been 

president? A. A week.
Q. Do you recall what time of the year it was that you 

met Mr. Brown at the NAACP office? A. It was in the 
summer ’61, I don’t know the date.

Q. Could you tell us what month? A. I don’t know the 
date, something like August or July or August or Septem­
ber, something like that. I don’t know the date.

—182—
Q. Now did you have any discussion with Mr. Brown 

or Mrs. Motley at that time? A. We just had a discussion 
in the house. Yes, we did.

Q. What did you talk about? A. Well, at first we talked 
about the loss of the Harmony School and then from that 
to integration.

Q. Now explain to the Court what you mean by the loss 
of the Harmony School? A. Well, the Harmony School 
was uh abolished and uh we were seeking some way to 
get it back so after we met with her she said that she wasn’t 
interested in schools, she was interested in integration 
and so we drew up some little plans there.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent-Direct



164

Q. Well, now where was the Harmony School located? 
A. In the center of the Harmony community about the cen­
ter of Leake County I guess.

Q, Well, can you tell us how far it was for example 
from your house? A. Southeast about one and half miles 
through, two miles around the road.

Q. By the way, do you have any children, Mrs. Hudson? 
A. Not in school.

Q. You have a daughter but is she older than school age? 
A. That’s right, Jackson College.

—183—
Q. She goes to Jackson College. Now after your con­

versation with Mrs. Motley and Mr. Brown in the summer 
of 1961 did you have occasion to talk to Mr. Brown again? 
A. Oh yes.

Q. When did you next talk to him? A. I don’t know the 
day. I don’t know the date that it was.

Q. Where did you talk to him? A. At the church, at 
our church.

Q. And what’s the name of that church? A. Galilee 
Missionary Baptist Church.

Q. And where is it located? A. In the Harmony com­
munity.

Q. Now at the time you next talked to him at Galilee 
Church how many people were present? A. I guess it was 
about twenty-five or twenty or twenty-five or thirty, some­
thing like that.

Q. Were any of the people who were present at Galilee 
Church the people who had been engaged in the conversa­
tion at the NAACP office in Jackson? A. Yes.

Q. Were there people in addition? A. Yes.
Q. Was Buthie Nell MoBeth there if you remember? A. 

She wasn’t there I don’t think.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent■—Direct



165

Q. Was Bertlia Kirkland there? A. Not there.
Q. Now on that occasion at Galilee Baptist Church was 

there any discussion about retainers? A. Yes.
Q. Will you tell us what was said and who said it if 

you recall to the best of your ability? A. Well, uh Jess 
Brown and Medger Evers brought the retainers and uh 
those that was there signed the retainers there that night 
and some that wasn’t some that didn’t get there and so 
Jess Brown told us these retainers is to authorize me as 
your lawyer, says I am not uh this is you all you are not 
going to get meon the spot, unless you sign these retainers 
I can’t do nothing for von.

Q. Now was there any discussion after that meeting at 
Galilee Church between you and Ruthie Nell McBeth con­
cerning this matter of retainers? A. Beg your pardon.

Q. Was there any conversation between you and Ruthie 
Nell McBeth about this matter of a retainer after that 
meeting at Galilee Church? A. I don’t know. Her mother 
was at the next meeting that Jess met with us at a home 
Mrs. Louella Sanders but that was later on.

Q. Well, did you ever talk to Ruthie Nell McBeth about
—185—

a retainer? A. Oh yes.
Q. When was that? A. That was uh now the date the 

date I can’t tell you.
Q. I ’m sorry? A. The date, I couldn’t tell you the date.
Q. Well, where did you talk to her? A. At her home.
Q. Who else was present? A. Uh Behonor McDonald.
Q. Behonor— A. (Interrupting) That’s right.
Q. (Continuing) McDonald. Was she a resident of Har­

mony community also? A. Yes.
Q. Now did you show Ruthie Nell a copy of the retainer

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

— 184—



166

which Jess Brown had brought up to the meeting at Galilee 
Baptist Church'? A. Yes.

Q. What did she do with it, if anything? A. She took 
it and looked over it, I guess she was reading it, she took 
it and kept it a while and looked over it.

Q. Did she sign it? A. Yes.
Q. Who was present when she signed it? A. Behonor

—186—
McDonald and Ruthie Nell and her mother.

By the Court:
Q. Were you present when she signed it? A. Yes. Yes, 

Your Honor.
Q. You say she signed it after reading it? A. After 

reading, I guess she was reading, she kept it in her pos­
session a long time, I was in the house talking and she was 
looking at it.

Q. She finished the eleventh grade hasn’t she? A. She 
finished the twelfth grade.

Q. Twelfth grade? A. I know she finished the twelfth 
because I was at her graduation.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 1 for Identification 
and ask you if that bears Ruthie Nell McBeth’s signature? 
A. That’s her handwriting.

Q. The Court can’t hear you? A. That’s her, that’s her 
handwriting.

Q. And you are familiar with her handwriting. Is that 
correct? A. Yes, I think I spoke and told her what a 
beautiful handwriting she had then.

Q. Now—

The Court: Let me ask her this.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

—187—



167

Q. At the time that contract which you are just testify­
ing about seeing Ruthie Nell McBeth sign was under dis­
cussion were you all at that time trying to get your school 
back or trying to get it integrated? A. We was trying 

,t° get it inte,grated^J£e_didn-t try the school anymore.
Q. kou had already abandoned the idea of trying to 

get it back? A. That’s right. We stopped the school befo 
we started this.

Q. How long had you abandoned the idea of getting 
your school back before this contract was signed by Ruthie 
Nell McBeth to Jess Brown? A. We!I. wTe had given up 
th.e_sclio.pl hefo we came to Jackson the first time...

Q. You mean you had given up the idea of getting it 
back? A. That’s right.

Q. You were reconciled to not getting it back at all? A. 
(Witness mumbling and unable to understand)—that’s 
right.

Q. And how long was it from the time that you had 
arrived at that conclusion to the time that Ruthie Nell put

— 188—

her name on that contract? A. Beg your pardon.
Q. How long would you say it was between the time 

that everybody had just decided that you wasn’t going 
to get your school back in the Harmony community before 
that contract was signed by Ruthie Nell McBeth to Jess 
Brown on this occasion that you mention? A. I just don’t 
know how long, it had been but it hadn’t been too long?

Q. Well, weeks or months or how long in your best 
judgment? A. Probably a month or six weeks, might 
have been something like that, I don’t know specifically.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

The C ou rt: A ll  right.



168

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct 

By Attorney Ming:
Q. Now had there been, following His Honor’s ques­

tions, had there been meetings of people in the Harmony 
community to discuss this matter, Mrs. Hudson! A. Yes.

Q. Well prior to the time that Euthie Nell signed that 
retainer how many such meetings had there been! A. A 
gang of them.

Q. Well now what do you mean by a gang of them, Mrs. 
Hudson, do you mean ten, eight, a dozen! A. Bout once a

- 1 8 9 -
week, we just had bout once a week for for a while.

Q. Now did you have meetings prior to the time that 
you came down to Jackson and talked to Mrs. Motley and 
Jess Brown! A. Yes.

Q. Did you have meetings after you had talked to them! 
A. Yes.

Q. And those meetings were prior to the time that 
Euthie Nell signed that retainer. Is that correct! A. 
Befo.

Q. That was before she signed it! A. Yes.
Q. Well, now did she attend any of those meetings! A. 

Yes.
Q. How many of them do you recall her attending! A. 

I don’t know how many she she attended but she she she 
would come sometimes and her mother would come some­
times.

Q. Well did she attend more than one! A. Yes.

By the Court:
Q. What does Euthie Nell McBeth do for a living! A. 

Uh she runs a little jint, little cafe.
Q. She runs it herself! A. Cafe.



169

Q. That’s at night though isn’t it! A. Well, well, I I
—190—

would it’s Sattiday night and sometime across the week.
Q. Well, what I am trying to find out what does she do 

during the week for a living! A. I don’t think she do 
anything much, help her mother around the house.

Q. She doesn’t teach school or anything! A. No. Your 
Honor.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now can you tell us how many such meetings Rutliie 
Nell attended! A. I sure can’t, something like three or 
two or four, something like that at night.

Q. And her mother attended others! A. That’s right.
Q. Can you tell us how many meetings her mother at­

tended! A. I sure can’t, I couldn’t tell you exactly how 
many.

Q. Well, now were there any meetings held to discuss 
this matter after Ruthie Nell signed that retainer! A. Yes, 
we still had meetings.

Q. Well, can you tell us about how many meetings you 
had let’s say in the year 1962! A. I sure can’t.

Q. Well, can you give us, can you give us an estimate? 
A. In ’62?

—191
Q. Yes ma’am? A. Bout once a month.
Q. About once a month. Did Ruthie Nell attend any of 

those meetings? A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us how many such rneeetings she at­

tended! A. I don’t know but not too many.



170

Q. Well, did she attend more than one? A. Probably. 
I don’t know.

Q. Did her mother attend meetings? A. Yes.
Q. Now were you present at a meeting in the Harmony 

community to discuss this school matter where Jess Brown 
was other than the meeting at the Galilee Church? A. 
Yes.

Q. Can you tell us where that was? A. Louella Sanders’.
Q. Louella— A. (Interrupting) Louella Sanders.
Q. (Continuing) Sanders. Does she also live in the Har­

mony community? A. That’s right.
Q. Now can you tell us who was present? A. Her mother 

was there that night.
—192—

Q. Whose mother? A. Buthie Nell’s mother was there 
that night.

Q. Can you tell us who else was there? A. Melodia 
Viverette. Pretty big bunch there that night.

Q. Well, how many would you estimate were there? A. 
About twenty-five or thirty.

Q. Twenty-five or thirty people? A. Yes.
Q. Well, can you tell us the names that you remember of 

the people that were there? A. Buthie Nell’s mother was 
there, Willie Earl Griffin, Lesper Griffin, Melodia Viverette, 
(Witness talking too low and fast to understand).

Q. Name another one. A. Melodia Viverette.
Q. Melodia Viverette. Is that spelled V-i-v-e-r-e-t-t-e ? 

A. I think so.
Q. Can you name another one? A. Eula Maude Gates.
Q. Eula Maude— A. (Interrupting) Gates.
Q. (Continuing) Gates. Anybody else? A. Ernestine 

Sanders, Dovie Hudson, Alice Greer, Jim Dodson.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



171

Q. Anybody else ? A. Velma Dodson.
Q, Velma Dodson"? A. That’s right.
Q. Remember any others! A. Cleo Hudson, Joe C. 

Hudson, Thelma Hudson.

The Court: You know how Jess C. Brown, his ini­
tial is C. isn’t it, I am trying to get Jess’ initial. 

Attorney Ming: It’s R. Jess Brown.
The Court: R. Jess Brown. You know how R. Jess 

Brown happened to be at those two meetings, how 
come him up there!

A. How come him up there!
Q. Yes. What was he doing up there! Why did he come 

up there! He lives here in Jackson. What was he doing 
up there! A. He came upjh e re, we invited him up there.., 

Q, The HA A CP! A. That’s right.
Q. You invited him up there— A. (Interrupting) 

That’s right.
Q. (Continuing) to talk about what? A. He came up 

there to do some work on this uh petition we had a retainer.
—194—

Q. To do exactly what now, to get your school back or to 
get it integrated! A. No, he wasn’t interested in no, he 
wasn’t interested in the school.

Q. So your Leake County chapter of the association in­
vited him up there to talk about this suit that was filed ? A. 
The petitions, yes suh.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

— 193—

T he C o u r t : A ll  right.



172

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct 

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now the Judge asked you about petitions, Mrs. Hud­
son. Did you circulate any petitions in connection with this 
school matter yourself? A. Yes, I did.

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 9 for identification, 
that, Your Honor, for your information is what’s been re­
ferred to here as the first petition.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Did you were you one of the people who circulated 
that petition? A. That’s right.

Q. Can you tell us who else helped circulate that petition?
—195—

A. I really don’t know. IJh I was on the group that uh that 
was carrying it and to those that didn’t get to the church. 
Part of these signed it at the church and I carried it around.

Q. Well, now I call your attention to Ruthie Nell Mc- 
Beth’s signature on page 3 of that petition. Do you know 
when she put her signature on that? A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell us who, were you present? A. That’s 
\ < right.
Y v, Q. And where was it? A. It was at her cafe.
^ < Q- And who else was present, Mrs. Hudson? A. No­

body. It was raining and uh my husband went in and told 
her to come out and she came out and some more people in 
the store and I asked him to go in and tell her to come out 

c ' I and she came out and I presented it to her and she said oh 
: you have it and I gave it to her and she looked over it and

!,

I she said yes, she was ready to sign it.



173

Q. Now who was present other than yourself and Ruthie 
Nell at that time! A. That’s all.

Q. Just the two of you"? A. It was raining, I think my 
husband went inside the store.

—196—
Q. Were you in a car! A. In a pickup.
Q. You were in a pickup truck! A. That’s right.
Q. Can you tell us about when that was! A. In ’61. I 

don’t know just the date. It was in ’61.
Q. Well, was it before or after you had talked to Mrs. 

Motley and Jess Brown in Jackson! A. That was after, 
that was after, a month or six weeks after.

Q. Well, was it before or after Ruthie Nell had signed 
this retainer! A. This was first.

Q. By this you mean the petition ! A. This petition was 
the first thing.

QrThat was signed before she signed the retainer, is 
that correct, Mrs. Hudson? A. That’s right.

Q. Now coming back again to the meeting at Mrs. Louella 
Sanders’ house where you said Ruthie Nell’s mother was 
present, by the way, what’s Ruthie Nell’s mother’s name? 
A. Bertha Kirkland.

Q. Was there any conversation on that occasion between 
Mrs. Kirkland and Jess Brown at the meeting at Mrs. 
Sanders’ house? A. Kh Jess Brown I believe uh her

—1 9 7 -
mother would have signed but Jess Brown wouldn’t let her 
sign it that night.

Q. When you say she would have signed it what do you 
refer to? A. The retainer.

Q. Well, now was this meeting before or after Ruthie 
Nell had signed this retainer? A. That was before.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



174

Q. The meeting that you are talking about was before— 
A. (Interrupting) That’s right.

Q. (Continuing) Euthie Nell signed the retainer? A. 
That’s right.

Q. Now did you ever have occasion to hear any conversa­
tion between Mrs. Kirkland and Jess Brown after Euthie 
Nell had signed the retainer? A. Did I ever hear?

Q. Yes. A. A conversation between the two?
Q. Between Mrs. Kirkland and Jess Brown. A. No.
Q. There is a newspaper published up in Carthage isn’t 

there, Mrs. Dodson? A. Yes.
Q. What’s the name of it? A. The Carthaginian.

—198—
Q. The Carthaginian? A. That’s right.
Q. You subscribe to the Carthaginian? A. Yes.
Q. Now did you have occasion to read in the Cartha­

ginian about the filing of this lawsuit? A. Yes.
Q. Did you have occasion to see Euthie Nell McBeth 

after you had read in the Carthaginian about filing this 
lawsuit? A. Yes.

Q. How soon after you read about the filing of the law­
suit did you see Euthie Nell? A. How long, I mean how 
many times after?

Q. No, how soon after you read in the paper about the 
lawsuit did you see Euthie Nell? A. I just don’t know.

Q. Well, did you see her mother after you read in the 
paper about filing the lawsuit ? A. Yes.

Q. Could you tell us how soon after you read in the paper 
about filing the lawsuit you saw her mother? A. Well, I 
see her pretty often.

Q. Well, what do you mean by pretty often? The Judge 
and I might mean one thing and you might mean another? 
A. See her at church on second Sunday and I don’t know

W ins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



175

whether I saw her right after then at a meeting or not but
—199—

I saw her at church.
Q. And by seeing her at the church you now mean Mrs. 

Kirldandf A. That’s right.
Q. Well, did you have any discussion with Buthie Nell 

about this lawsuit after it was filed! A. I didn’t.
Q. She didn’t mention it to you and you didn’t mention 

it to her! A. I didn’t see her.
Q. You didn’t see her! A. 1 didn’t see Buthie Nell.
Q. Well, did you have any discussion with Mrs. Kirk­

land about it! A. I didn’t.
Q. She didn’t say anything to you about it! A. No.
Q. Now when was the nest meeting of the branch the 

Leake County branch of the NAACP after this lawsuit 
was filed! Do you recall! A. I don’t.

Q. If I may, Your Honor, call your attention to the fact 
that the lawsuit was filed on March 7th, 1963 can you tell 
us when the next meeting of the branch was after that! 
A. ’63!

— 200—

Q. March the 7th of this year! A. I can’t.
Q. You don’t recall! A. I don’t recall.
Q. Did Buthie Nell McBeth ever make any complaint or 

statement to you about this retainer after she signed it! 
A. No.

Q. Now I show you Bespondent’s Exhibit 7, that, Your 
Honor, for identification, that, Your Honor, is the what’s 
been referred to here as the second petition. Did you help 
circulate that one! A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did other people help circulate it! A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us who those other people were! A. I 

believe Joe C. Hudson was one.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



176

Q. Joe C. Hudson? A. That’s right.
Q. Anybody else? A. I don’t remember.
Q. Did you offer this petition this second petition to 

Buthie Nell McBeth to sign? A. No, I didn’t carry but one 
petition to her.

Q. You only carried one to her? A. That’s right.
— 201—

Q. Anybody tell you to take that second petition to 
Buthie Nell McBeth? A. No, I wasn’t to carry it.

The Court: You are in that stage of your case 
where you are permitted to put into evidence those.

Attorney Ming: Thank you for reminding me, 
Your Honor, and I will try as I get them identified 
to offer them if I may.

Q. Now how many of these names that appear on this 
exhibit did you get affixed, Mrs. Hudson, can you tell us? 
A. I don’t remember.

Q. Was it more than one? A. This is the second one?
Q. That’s the second one, yes ma’am. A. Oh this is 

the second one. I didn’t carry this one.
Q. You didn’t carry that around? A. I didn’t carry 

that.
Q. You didn’t carry that one around. Let me show you 

both of them so as to avoid confusion? A. This is the one.
Q. By this— A. (Interrupting) This is the one and the 

retainer.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent■—Direct

Attorney Ming: By this, Your Honor, the refer-
— 202—

ence is to Bespondent’s Exhibit 9 for identification.



177

Q. You did not circulate— A. (Interrupting) That’s 
right.

Q. (Continuing) Respondent’s Exhibit 7, the second pe­
tition? A. No.

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, may I offer in evi­
dence Respondent’s Exhibit 9 for identification, that 
being the so-called first petition.

The Court: All right, that may be admitted in 
evidence and now marked Exhibit 9.

(Received in evidence as Respondent’s Exhibit 9.)

Attorney Ming: Also, Your Honor, at this time 
I should like to offer in evidence Respondent’s Ex­
hibit 1 for identification, being the retainer.

The Court: All right, that may be admitted in 
evidence and marked Exhibit 1.

(Received in evidence as Respondent’s Ex­
hibit 1.)

By Attorney Ming:
Q. Now Mrs. Hudson, did you ask any other people to 

sign retainers similar to that signed by Ruthie Nell
—203—

McBeth? A. Yes.
Q. I show you twelve such retainers marked Respon­

dent’s Group Exhibit 3 for identification and ask you to 
examine those and tell us if any of them were signed in 
your presence? A. Dovie Hudson.

Q. Dovie Hudson? A. Jim Dodson, Alice Greer, Lesper 
Gi'iffin. I believe that’s all.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



178

Q. Now can you tell us whether other persons in the 
Harmony community distributed those retainers? A. Who 
did?

Q. Yes. A. Joe C. Hudson.
Q- Anybody else? A. Behonor McDonald was with me.
Q. Behonor McDonald was with you. Anybody else? 

A. I don’t know of anybody else, only Joe C. Hudson.
Q. Well, now after you— A. (Interrupting) Clara

Dodson.
Q. Clara Dodson? A. Clara Dodson, that’s right, Clara 

Dodson.
Q. Is that any relationship to Jim Dodson? A. Sister 

in law Clara is to Jim Dodson.
Q. Now after these retainers that you saw signed had 

been signed what did you do with them? A. We had a
—204—

meeting and sent them in to Jackson.
Q. Did you send the one signed by Buthie Nell McBeth? 

A. Yes, they was all together.
Q. They were all together and when you say you sent 

them in to Jackson to whom did you send them? A. Med- 
ger Evers.

Q. You sent them to Medger Evers. Did you send any 
direction as to what he was to do with them? A. Send 
them to New York.

Q. Send them to New York. To whom in New York? A. 
Uh Constant Motley.

Q. Constance Motley. Did you ever ask him what he did 
with them? A. Jess Brown?

Q. Did you ever ask Medger Evers what he did with 
them? A. Oh yes, he said he sent them off.

Q. He said he sent them off? A. That’s right.
Q. When was that, you recall? A. No.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



179

The Court: Let’s see, she is talking about this 
group exhibit 3 ?

Attorney Ming: That’s what I am going to inquire 
about to make sure of if I may, Your Honor.

—205—
The Court: Is that what she is testifying about 

now?
Attorney Ming: That’s what I am going to ask 

her specifically.
The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now are you talking about the retainers? A. No.
Q. All right. A. The retainers didn’t go to New York.
Q. Well, what did you do with the retainers? A. They 

go to Jess Brown, they want to Jess Brown.
Q. And do you know who sent them to him? A. To 

Jess?
Q. Yes. A. I don’t know.

The Court: What was it that was going to New 
York?

A. The petition.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. And by petition you refer to the one that you circu­
lated? A. That’s right.

- 2 0 6 -
Attorney Ming: That, Your Honor, is Respon­

dent’s Exhibit 9 which is in evidence.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent-—Direct



180

Q. Now Mrs. Hudson, were you living in the Harmony 
community in October, 1962! A. Yes.

Q. Did anything unusual occur in that community dur­
ing the first week of October, 1962! A. I don’t know when 
it was but it was some shooting going on went on there.

Q. Tell the Court what happened! A. Well, it wasn’t, 
it wasn’t, my house wasn’t shot in, but my brother’s and his 
wife came over early uh on Friday morning, on Friday 
morning, it was in October, I think it was in October and 
say the house was shot in.

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, we are going to 
object to hearsay by other people what happened.

The Court: I will sustain the objection. Just tell 
what you know.

A. Well, I don’t know. My house wasn’t shot in.

By Attorney Ming:
Q. Did you hear any shots! A. No, I didn’t hear any 

shots.
Q. Now at the time Buthie Nell signed this retainer did

—207—
you say anything to her about paying any lawyer’s fees 
to Jess Brown or anybody else! A. No.

Q. Did you ever ask her to pay Jess Brown any fees! 
A. No.

Q. Did anybody in your presence ever ask her to pay 
Jess Brown any fees! A. No.

Q. Did you ask any of the people that you have testified 
you sign the retainers to pay any fees to Jess Brown! 
A. No.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



181

Q. Or did anybody in yonr presence ask those people to 
pay any fees’? A. No.

The Court: Were they told that no fees would be 
expected of them, that Jess Brown was going to 
perform his service so far as they were concerned 
without any cost or expense to them?

A. The fee never was mentioned.

The Court: I see. All right.

By Attorney Ming:
Q. Was any fee ever demanded of these people by Jess 

Brown at the meetings which he attended that you have
—208—

testified you were at ? A. No.
Attorney Ming: May I have a moment, Your 

Honor.

Q. You know Mr. 0. E. Jordan? A. Yes.
Q. Who is he, Mrs. Hudson? A. He was once superin­

tendent of the General High School.
Q. And where is that? Where is that? A. That’s in 

Carthage out from Carthage about a mile.
Q. Now did you know him in March, 1962? A. Yes.
Q. Does he live in the Harmony community? A. No.
Q. Where does he live? A. Where did he live then? 
Q. Yes, in March, 1962 where did he live? A. He lived 

on the campus, on the campus of the high school.
Q. Where is that? A. That’s in town, in Carthage about 

a mile from Carthage.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



182

Q. Now is that a negro high school or a white high school! 
A. Negro high school.

Q. Negro high school. Did you have any conversation 
or correspondence with Mr. Jordan in March, 1962 in the

- 209-

Spring of 1962? A. No.
Q. Do you know whether or not any of the plaintiffs in 

this lawsuit did? A. Do I know, I don’t know nothing but 
what they say.

Q. All right, you may not tell us that. Now calling your 
attention to the end of March, 1962, 1963 did you have 
occasion to see Bertha Kirkland? A. I saw her.

Q. You saw her? A. Yes.
Q. Did she say anything to you about her daughter being 

a party to this lawsuit? A. We didn’t talk. We didn’t 
talk about it.

Q. You didn’t talk about it. You talked to her but you 
didn’t talk about this, is that it, Mrs. Hudson? A. We 
talked but we didn’t talk about that.

Q. I see. Did Ruthie Nell McBeth say anything to you 
about it? A. No.

Q. How far do the Kirklands live from your house? A. 
About five miles.

Q. About five miles ? A. More or less.
Q. More or less. They do have neighbors closer to their

- 210-

house than yours. Is that right? A. Did I have what?
Q. The Kirklands do have neighbors closer to their house 

than your house? A. Oh yes.
Q. Now just so His Honor will understand the area most 

of the area most of the people in the area are farmers. 
Isn’t that right, Mrs. Hudson? A. That’s right.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



183

Q. Now you and your husband farm. Is that right! A. 
That’s right.

Q. And most of the other people in the area farm. Is 
that correct? A. That’s right.

Q. How large on the average are the farms! A. Uh 
sixty, uh sixty, some larger and some smaller.

Q. By sixty you mean sixty acres? A. Sixty acres, hun­
dred and fifty, five hundred.

Q. And what is the what are the principal crops? A. 
Cotton and corn and cotton.

Q. Corn and cotton. Cattle. A. Cattle.
Q. And in the main the people live on their farms. Is 

that right? A. Yes.
— 211—

Q. You live on your farm? A. Yes.
Q. So the interval between the houses is determined by 

the size of the farm. Is that right? A. That’s right.
Q. Now after this petition that you said you circulated, 

for the record respondent’s 9 in evidence, what did you do 
after you got it signed what did you do with it? A. The 
petition?

Q. Yes, the one that you helped circulate? A. We sent 
it to the uh Medger Evers.

Q. And did you tell him what to do with it? A. Yes.
Q. What did you tell him to do with it? A. To send it 

to New York.
Q. Why did you tell him to send it to New York? A. 

To send it to uh well uh Mr. Brown and Constant Motley 
was the ones that sent it to us.

Q. They sent it to you? A. That’s right.
Q. And so you told him to send it back to Mrs. Motley, 

is that right? A. That’s right, to send it to Mr. Brown or 
Mrs. Motley.

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



184

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross

Q. You told him to send it to Brown or Mrs. Motley? 
A. That’s right.

- 212-

Q. Did you inquire of him later whether he had done 
what you told him to do ? A. Medger told us he sent it off.

Q. He told you he had sent it off. Can you tell us about 
when that was? A. It was in the Fall ’61.

Q. It was in the Fall of ’61? A. I think. I am not defi­
nite.

Q. Well, was it before Euthie Nell signed the retainer? 
A. Oh yes.

Q. It was before that? A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever get any answer from the Leake County 

School Board? A. No.
Q. Did you yourself ever have any correspondence or 

conversation with the Leake County School Board about 
this matter? A. About this?

Q. Yes. A. Not this.
Q. And by this I mean the matter of the desegregation 

of schools covered by the petition. You never had any 
correspondence or conversation with any of the members 
of the School Board.

—2 1 3 -
Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.

Cross Examination by Judge Pyle :

Q. When you say you had no conversation or correspond­
ence with the Leake County School Board pertaining to 
this matter you were talking about discussing the matter 
of integrating the schools of Leake County weren’t you? 
A. That’s right.

Q. Now you did meet with the School Board of Leake 
County on at least five occasions talking about getting the



185

Harmony School hack didn’t you! A. I don’t know how 
many. I know we met some.

Q. You were on a special committee to approach the 
School Board and discuss with them the matter of getting 
the Harmony School back after it was consolidated with 
another school in that county weren’t you! A. That’s right.

Q. Who were the other members of this committee that 
met with the Leake County School Board? A. Uh Jodie 
McDonald, Murray McDonald and that’s all. There was
one or two more, it’s been so long.

Q. Now in— A. (Interrupting) Jodie McDonald, Myrtle
McDonald and myself. It was a group of us, just three of

—214—
us I think, sometime it would be three or four or five. All 
of us didn’t go at the same time.

Q. Now when were these meetings taking place? A. 
Befo this, befo this petition started circulating.

Q. Before the first petition was circulated in 1961? A. 
That’s right.

Q. Now whose idea was it to have prepared this fiist 
petition, this exhibit 9 of the respondent now, the one that 
you circulated, whose idea was it to get up that petition 
and circulate it? A. A group of us, mine for one.

Q. You were the principal one behind it? A. Not the
principal but in the group.

Q. Yes, and who prepared that document for you, ex­
hibit 9, the original petition, the first petition that you say 
you helped circulate? A. This petition?

Q. Yes. A. It was sent from Jackson, I guess Jess 
Brown and Constant Motley prepared it.

Q. And who received it out in Leake County? To whom 
was it sent? A. To who in Leake County?

Winso'n Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



186

Q. Yes. Who in Leake County was it sent to? You said 
it was sent out from Jackson. Who got it? A. The presi­
dent.

—215—
Q. Who was the president? A. Clara Dodson. I guess, 

now I am not definite about that, Clara Dodson was the 
one I got it from.

Q. And you went with which one of the other members 
of the group now in going around to see the people in the 
community to get them to sign this petition exhibit 9 ? Who 
went with you? Lou said another one of the group worked 
with you in circulating this petition did you not? A. My 
husband went with me to carry this petition.

Q. And you are the one that took it to Ruthie Nell 
McBeth? A. That’s right.

Q, Is that right? A. That’s right.
Q. And where did you find Ruthie Nell? A. At her store, 

her cafe.
Q. And that’s the day you say it was raining? A. That’s 

right.
Q. And who else was with you in this pickup truck with 

you and your husband that day? A. Nobody.
Q. Why did you tell your husband to go in the store and 

ask her to come out there rather than for you two to get
—2 1 6 -

out and go in the store? A. I just didn’t want to go in 
the stoi e because it was a public place and I didn’t want 
the public to see it.

Q. Why didn’t you want the public to see it? A. Be­
cause I didn’t know who was in there.

Q. Were you ashamed of it? A. No.

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



187

Winsom Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross 

By the Court:
Q. You say it was raining at the time! A. That’s right. 
Q. You asked her to come out in the rain to your truck? 

A. That’s right. She put paper over her head and came 
out and sat down in the truck, just a short distance.

By Judge Pyle :
Q. Now would you tell the Court as best you can what 

you told Ruthie Nell on that occasion as to what your mis­
sion was there? A. She knew. When she got in the truck 
I just passed the petition to her. She knew what it was.

Q. She knew that you had been going to meet with the 
School Board in an effort to get the Harmony School back 
didn’t she? A. She didn’t know that,

Q. She didn’t know that? A. I don’t guess she knew
that.

—217—
By the Court:

Q. Did you have something for her to write on when you 
handed her the petition in the truck? A. I had the petition 
in a Ebony magazine and she wrote on that to keep it from 
getting wet,

Q. Did she get in the truck and sign it? A. She set down 
in the truck.

Q. What did she support the magazine on to write on? 
A. Beg your pardon.

Q. How did she support the magazine to write on? A. 
How?

Q. You say she put the petition on a magazine, Ebony 
magazine, what did she lay that on, she was sitting in the 
truck, how did she sign it? A. The petition was in this



188

magazine and when she opened the magazine she just 
signed, the petition was there.

Q. She was sitting in the truck wasn’t she? A. That’s 
right.

Q. Well, what was she resting the magazine on while she 
was signing it? A. The magazine was thick and didn’t need 
nothing to rest on.

Q. She just stood there and held it up in her hand did 
she? A. She was sitting down, held it like this.

—218—
Q. Well she put it in her lap didn’t she? A. I guess.

The Court: That’s what I am trying to find out 
how she did it.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Where was your husband at the time that Buthie Nell 
signed this petition exhibit 9, respondent’s exhibit 9? A. 
Well, he was from from the store to the truck and now 
when she wrote her name he wasn’t in the truck and we had 
a glass out on this side and he was when she signed it he 
must have been in the store between the store and the truck 
standing right there.

Q. How far was your truck parked away from the en­
trance to the store? A. Something like from here to 
that.

Q. This rail here? A. That’s right.
Q. About ten feet? A. Bout something like this across, 

her cafe is right side the road.
Q. I suggest the record show she is indicating about 

twelve to fourteen feet. Now how long did your husband 
stay in the store after you sent him in for Buthie Nell

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



189

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross 

before be came back out! A. I don’t know, I was on the

opposite side, I was on the opposite side so I just don’t 
know how many minutes, I just couldn’t tell you how many 
minutes he stayed in there. We didn’t stay there long, just 
a short while because it was raining and we had to get in.

Q. Nobody saw Ruthie Nell McBeth put her name on 
this Exhibit 9 other than you Winson Hudson! A. No­
body, that’s right.

Q. And you say that you didn’t tell her anything, that 
she knew what you were there for ? A. That’s right.

Q. You didn’t say a word to her? A. We talked.
Q. I am trying to get you to tell me what you told her? 

A. Well, only thing I remember Ruthie jjell_said. IviRMe

because 1 know she will Haw plenty or protection out oiner 
than that I don’t know what Ruthie Nell said, we just talk­
ing bout the rain and first one thing and another.

By the Court:

Q. Did you talk about getting your school back? A. 
Didn’t mention it.

Q. She was out there in the truck and it was night time 
wasn’t it? A. It was in the day time, in the afternoon, 
late in the afternoon.

Q. What time of day was it? A. I don’t believe school 
was out, bout four o’clock, something, I just don’t re­
member.

Q. She read the thing before she signed it? A. She

—219—

— 220—

looked at it 1



190

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross 

By Judge Pyle :

Q. How long now? A. Long enough to read it bout two 
minutes or three something like that.

Q. What was your husband doing during this period of 
time? A. I don’t know what he was doing. He was in the 
store there, might have been eating or drinking or some­
thing, I don’t know.

Q. And it’s your testimony that Ruthie Nell stayed in 
the truck some two or three minutes, is that right? A. She 
stayed longer than that. She looked over it that long. She 
stayed longer than that in the truck.

Q. Well, what actually happened there was that you told 
Ruthie Nell that you were continuing your effort to get 
the Harmony School back and that if she would sign this 
petition and when this petition was presented to the School 
Board that you were going to get the school back and that 
there wouldn’t have to be any integration, isn’t that what 
you told her? A. No.

— 221—

Q. That isn’t what you told her at all? A. We didn’t talk 
about the school.

Q. Now the truth of the business is that the Harmony 
School wasn’t destroyed but it was merely consolidated 
with another county school wasn’t it? A. That’s right.

Q. And all of the children including Ruthie Nell McBeth’s 
and the others of school age were to be transported by 
motor bus to the big new consolidated school weren’t they ? 
A. That’s right.

Q. Now you can’t tell us the approximate date that you 
were there at the store and obtained Ruthie Nell McBeth’s 
signature on this exhibit 9, the petition, can you? A. The 
exact date?



191

Q. Or the approximate date I said. A. It was in ’61, 
something like I just don’t know the exact date.

Q. Now when was it that you went back with the re­
tainer, Respondent’s Exhibit If A. That was later on. 
That wras after this we had circulated this petition.

Q. And where did you see Ruthie Nell McBeth at that 
time? A. At her home.

Q. And that’s the home where Bertha Kirkland lives too! 
A. Her mother.

— 222—

Q. Now who all was present there at the time you en­
tered that house on this occasion to approach Ruthie Nell 
McBeth about signing the retainer! A. Ruthie Nell and 
her mother. There was somebody else in the other part 
of the house but we were in the kitchen and somebody else 
I could hear talking in the other part of the house.

Q. Who was with you? A. Behonor McDonald.
Q. All right and you are sure you went to the Kirkland 

house— A. (Interrupting) That’s right.
Q. (Continuing) and not to the cafe? A. That’s right, 

that’s right with the retainer.
Q. Don’t you know as a matter of fact that you went by 

the house and that Ruthie Nell wasn’t there and you went 
on up to the cafe and saw her up there! A. That was with 
this petition.

Q. But you went in the house at the time you had the 
retainer and she signed it there in your presence and in 
her mother’s presence and in Behonor McDonald’s pres­
ence? A. The retainer.

Q. Yes. A. Yes.
Q. What did you tell Ruthie Nell McBeth at that time 

you were there with this retainer, Respondent’s Exhibit 1,

Wins on Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



192

Winson Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross

—223—
about the purpose of getting it signed? A. What did I tell 
her?

Q. Yes. A. Nothing specifically.
Q. Didn’t you tell her at that time that all you were doing 

was trying to put pressure on the School Board to get the 
Harmony School back? A. No.

Q. And that that was another petition to the School 
Board? A. No, we just passed words about how bad we 
had been treated and no nothing definite wasn’t, we just 
talking about her daughter going to school down there and 
how overcrowded it wuz and busses tore up, just stuff like 
that.

Q. How bad you had been treated. Did you have a child 
in school in 1961? A. No.

Q. How old is your daughter now? A. Twenty.
Q. And she had already finished high school in 1961? 

A. That’s right.
Q. And did she finish at this Harmony School? A. 

That’s right.
Q. Why were you so concerned then about getting the 

Harmony School back if you had no children to go to the
—2 2 4 -

school? A. I had children indirect.
Q. You had children indirect? A. My sister’s children, 

I have a sister’s children and my neighbor’s and all the 
children I was concerned about.

Q. Did you ever teach school yourself? A. I sure did. 
Q. How long? A. Two years.
Q. And where was that? A. Madden.
Q. Have you ever been in any . trouble with the law up 

there? A. Not never.



193

Q. What’s your husband’s name? A. Cleo Hudson.
Q. How long have you been married to Cieo? A. 

Twenty-six years.
Q. Did he work with you and make every visit with you 

at the time you were circulating this original petition, ex­
hibit number 9? A. No, he wasn’t with me at all times.

Q, Did you ever at any time while you were meeting as 
a member of this committee with the Leake County School 
Board suggest to the Board that what you were really in­
terested in doing was integrating the schools of Leake

—2 2 5 -
County? A. Did we did I tell the Board that?

Q. Yes. A. No.

Judge Pyle: We have no further questions.
The Court: All right, anything further? 
Attorney Ming: Just a moment, Your Honor. 
The Court: All right.
Attorney Ming: You may step down, Mrs. Hud­

son. Thank you.

(The hearing of this cause was recessed at 4:2S 
P.M. until 9 :00 A.M., August 3, 1983, at which time 
the same parties were present as at the previous 
hearing.)

The Court: Who will you have?
Attorney Ming: Mrs. Dovie Hudson.

Winscm Gates Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



194

D ovie H udson called as a witness for and on behalf of 
Respondent, was sworn and testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Will you tell us your name and address please? A.
—226—

Dovie Hudson, Route 3, Box 248, Carthage, Miss.

The Court: What was your first name ?
Attorney Ming: Dovie. D-o-v-i-e.

Q. Now will you keep your voice up, Mrs. Hudson, so 
that the Judge and these gentlemen at the counsel table 
can hear you! A. Yes.

Q. Are you married or single, Mrs. Hudson? A. I am 
a widow.

Q. You have any children? A. Yes, I have.
Q. And what are their names? A. Uh Martina Hudson, 

Glover uh Johnny Hudson, Glover Hudson, Cleon Hudson, 
Jimmy Hudson, Howard Hudson, Whit Hudson, Annie 
Jean Hudson, Dian Hudson and uh Joan Hudson and Mary 
Hudson.

Q. How many is that altogether? A. Eleven.
Q. Are any of those children of school age? A. Yes. 
Q. Which children are of school age? A. Uh Dian, 

Annie Jean, Joan and Mary.
Q. And are you one the plaintiffs in this lawsuit entitled

—227—
Hudson and others versus the Leake County School Board 
and others? A. Yes.

Q. Do you know B. Jess Brown? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you known him? A. Well, about a 

year or better, little over a year.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



195

Q. Can yon tell ns when you first met him and under 
what circumstances'? A. Well, uh I met him in Jackson 
when Constant Motley was in Jackson, we came down to 
Jackson and met him.

Q. And where was that, Mrs. Hudson! A. Uh at the 
Masonic Temple there in the NAACP office.

Q. In Jackson! A. In Jackson.
Q. On Lynch Street, is that correct! A. Tes.
Q. Can you tell us when that was ! A. Well, I don’t just 

remember. I don’t just remember what time that was.
Q. Can you tell us the time of year that it was! Was 

it winter, summer, spring or fall! A. I just don’t re­
member.

Q. Were there other people with you! A. Yes, it was.
— 228—

Q. Who were those other people that you remember? 
A. Well, the ones that I remember Johnny Hudson, uh uh 
Mrs. Mary Alice Campbell, Mr. Murray McDonald and I 
don’t remember any more.

Q. How many people were there? A. I don’t even re­
member that.

The Court: I don’t see the relevancy of all this. 
Let’s get on the issue.

Attorney Ming: I suggest, Your Honor, that this 
goes to the matter of the conduct of the plaintiffs 
with Mr. Brown.

The Court: All right, go ahead.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Did you have any conversation at that time with uh 
Mr. Brown? A. Well, no, we just know in a meeting there 
Mrs. Motley.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



196

Q. Mrs. Motley? A. That’s right.
Q. Was Mr. Brown there? A. He was there.
Q. Do yon know Rnthie Nell McBeth? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you known her? A. Well, I have

—229—
known her all of her days. She is a relative of mine.

Q. She’s a relative of yours? A. That’s right.
Q. Do you know Mrs. Kirkland? A. YTes.
Q. I am sorry, Your Honor. Do you know Mrs. Bertha 

Kirkland? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you known her? A. Well, since we 

were small classmates, she and I was classmate.
Q. Have you lived all your life in the area where you 

now live? A. Well practically, I have lived I lived Louisi­
ana for a couple of years.

Q. And you live in Carthage, near Carthage? A. Near 
Carthage.

Q. Is that correct? A. That’s right.
Q. Now in 1961 where did your children attend school, 

the children of school age? A. Uh ’61 at Jordan High. 
Jordan High.

Q. Jordan High? A. I think that’s.
—230—

Q. J-o-r-d-e-n? A. Its two ways of spelling Jordan. I 
don’t know which was its spelled.

Q. Whether its J-o-r-d-e-n or J-o-r-d-a-n, is that right? 
A. That’s right.

Q. And where is that located? A. Near Carthage.
Q. And is that school attended only by colored children? 

A. That’s right.
Q. Did your, pardon me, did your children attend the 

Harmony community school? A. Yes.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



197

Q. In 1961 did any of your children attend the Harmony 
community school? A. No.

Q. That was elementary school, is that correct! A. No, 
it was a high school.

Q. It was a high school? A. That’s right.
Q. Had your children attended the school before 1961! 

A. Yes.
Q. During 1961 did you ever have any occasion to at­

tend a meeting at which the matter of the schools in Leake 
County was discussed? A. In ’61!

—231—
Q. In 1961? A. Well I don’t just remember. Oh you 

mean uh by whom just anybody.
Q. That’s right. A. Well, I was at the Court House at 

a meeting once that uh we was discussing about the school.
Q. Can you tell us who was there? A. Well no I can’t 

because there was a great congregation of people.
Q. Where there members of the School Board there? A. 

They was, yes.

The Court: I didn’t get her answer. You are 
whispering.

A. They was, yes.

The Court: This man has got to get what you are 
saying and I have got to hear you or you might as 
well not be talking.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

A. Yes, Your Honor.



198

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct 

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Did you attend other meetings at which the matters 
of the matter of the schools in that community were dis­
cussed? A. Well I did, yes.

Q. How many such meetings did you attend? A. Well 
I attended three of that kind with the School Board.

— 232—
Q. With the School Board and did you attend any other 

meetings at which the Harmony schools were discussed 
other than the meetings with the School Board? A. Yes.

Q. How many such meetings did you attend? A. I don’t 
just remember. Something like three or four, maybe four, 
more or less.

Q. Was Buthie Nell McBeth at any of those meetings? 
A. Yes.

Q. Was she at any of the meetings with the School 
Board? A. I don’t remember where she was or not.

By the Court:

Q. Was Buthie Nell McBeth at any meeting at any time 
when you were present when the purpose and objective of 
that meeting was to integrate the colored people? A. Yes. 

Q. She was? A. That’s right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. How many such meetings did she attend? A. Well, 
two or three more or less.

Q. Two or three? A. That’s right.
Q. Can you tell us where they were held? A. Well at

— 233—
Mrs. Louella Sanders.

Q. Mrs. Louella Sanders? A. That’s right.



199

Q. Now is she one of the persons who lives in the Har­
mony community? A. That’s right.

Q. Can you tell us how many people were at those meet­
ings that Ruthie Nell attended? A. Well no I can’t.

Q. Well, can you give us an estimate? A, Well—

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, we submit that’s 
immaterial. Its a question of whether or not Ruthie 
Nell was there and whether or not Jess Brown was 
there and she heard anything pertaining to the re­
tention of R. Jess Brown to represent her.

The Court: I think that is beside the issue but I 
will let you window dress just a little bit. Go ahead. 

Attorney Ming: All right, Your Honor.

Q. Can you tell us how many people where there? A. 
Well it was seven or eight more or less something like that. 

Q. Now was she ever at any meetings at which Jess
— 234-

Brown was present? A. No.
Q. I believe you testified you knew her mother Mrs. 

Bertha Kirkland? A. Yes.
Q. Was Mrs. Bertha Kirkland ever at any meeting where 

the matter of integrating the schools of Leake County was 
discussed? A. Yes.

Q. How many such meetings was she present at? A. I 
remember one I know.

Q. Where was that, Mrs. Hudson? A. At Mrs. San­
derses, Mrs. Louella Sanderses.

Q. At Mrs. Louella Sanders? A. That’s right.
Q. Was Jess Brown there? A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us about when that was? A. No, I don’t 

remember.

Dovie Hudson—for 'Respondent—Direct



200

Q. Was it before this lawsuit was filed? A. Yes, it was 
before the lawsuit was filed.

Q. Now can you tell us whether or not Mrs. Kirkland 
and Mr. Brown had any conversation on that occasion? 
A. Well as well as I can remember I don’t know what it 
was that they that we were signing that night but she

—235—
wanted to sign herself and uh I don’t know whether it was 
uh one of the petitions or what but uh he wanted her signa­
ture and she was living you know in the house.

Q. Whose signature did Mr. Brown want? A. Uh 
Ruthie Nell.

Q. Wanted Ruthie Nell’s signature. Now wThen you say 
she wanted to sign who do you refer to? A. Uh uh Mrs. 
Kirkland.

Q. Mrs. Kirkland? A. She wanted to sign it for the 
two children.

Q. Well now was there any discussion at that time about 
a lawsuit to compel integration of the Leake County 
Schools? A. That’s right.

Q. Can you tell us what was said and who said it? A. 
Well uh not uh I mean Mr. Brown and Mr. Evers both 
spoke at the meeting that night and they told each one this 
is not to get Harmony School back and uh each one agreed 
to go ahead with it except Mrs. Brookshire.

Q. Except Mrs. Brookshire? A. That’s right.
Q. Can you tell us her first name? A. No, I don’t know 

her first name.
Q. You know where she lives? A. She lives uh there by 

Mrs. Kirkland.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



201

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

—236—
By the Court.:

Q. Wliat was the approximate date of this occasion when 
you say that Jess Brown told them that the purpose of 
this meeting was not to get your school back but it was 
for the integration of the school! A. Well, I don’t remem­
ber.

Q. You remember what year— A. (Interrupting) No. 
Q. You remember what year it was in! A. Well I can’t 

remember that.
Q. Well, was it before the suit was filed! A. It was 

befo the suit was tiled.
Q. How long, how long before the suit was filed! A. 

Well, uh six or seven more or less, six or seven months 
more or less.

Q. And where was that meeting! A. At Mrs. Sanders, 
Mrs. Louella Sanders.

Q. And where is that? A. That’s in the Harmony com­
munity, near the Harmony community.

Q. Is she one of the parents— A. (Interrupting) No.
Q. (Continuing) of kids—• A. (Interrupting) She’s not, 
Q. (Continuing) that go to school there? A. No, she is

■—237—
not.

Q. But she was interested in that movement was she! 
A. That’s right.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I show you, I show you one of the pages of 
Bespondent’s group Exhibit 3 for identification and ask 
if that is your signature? A. That’s right, yes it is.



202

Q. Can you tell us when you signed that document? A. 
Uh December.

The Court: What is the date on it?

A. Its the 7th of December.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. 1961? A. 1961.
Q. And did you sign it on or about the date that it bears? 

A. Yes, about that.
Q. Now this meeting at Mrs. Sanders that you referred 

to was that meeting held after you had signed this retainer 
that I just showed you? A. I don’t remember. I don’t re-

—2 3 8 -
member whether it was before or after.

Q. But it was before the lawsuit was filed? A. That’s 
right, yes.

Q. Now did you have any conversation with Ruthie Nell 
McBeth after the lawsuit was filed? A. No.

Q. Did you have any conversation with her mother— 
A. (Interrupting) Yes.

Q. (Continuing) after the lawsuit was filed? A. I did.
Q. Where was that? A. At Mrs. Griffin, Mrs. Lesper 

Griffin.
Q. And is she one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit? A. 

Yes.
Q. And can you tell us about when that was? A. I don’t 

remember the exact date but it was the second Friday in 
March.

Q. Now was this after when you say second Friday in 
March you mean of 1963? A. That’s right, of ’62 wasn’t it, 
let me see, wait, it was uh it was after the lawsuit, it was 
a day or two after the lawsuit was filed.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



203

Q. A day or two after the lawsuit— A. (Interrupting) 
That’s right.

—239—
Q. (Continuing) was filed! A. That’s right.
Q. And if I tell you that the lawsuit was filed on March 

the 7, 1963 would that refresh your recollection as to when 
it was that you talked with Mrs. Kirkland! A. TJh well 
uh it uh I just remember it was the second Friday because 
we have a home demonstration club and uh I was at that 
meeting that day and uh I was looking on my book uh one 
day this week and uh I had it dated on the 8th when we had 
that meeting. That was on a Friday.

Q. Well now did you have any conversation with Mrs. 
Kirkland about this lawsuit! A. Yes, I mean uh well it 
wasn’t uh she was just telling me something about her 
daughter.

Q. Did it concern this lawsuit! A. Yes.
Q. Will you tell us what the conversation was!

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, we object to 
that, that would be hearsay as to the real parties 
here, Ruthie Nell McBeth wasn’t present was she!

A. No, she wasn’t present.

The Court: I am going to overrule that objection 
although I think its a good one normally. In a case 
of this kind I will overrule that objection.

—240—
By Attorney Ming:

Q. Will you tell us what that conversation was please, 
Mrs. Hudson! A. Uh we uh I go to the meeting so she 
came in and she said she wanted to talk with me so uh me

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



204

and her we went back into the bathroom and she told me 
says sister got company and I asked her who is it and she 
told me a news reporter from Channel 12. I said yes, what 
did he want. She said he wanted her to tell him something 
about the lawsuit and I said well what did she tell him, 
she said well she told him she didn’t have no comments to 
make about the lawsuit so he asked her uh would she tell 
him something about the shooting in the house and uh she 
told him she would and uh that he snapped some pictures 
of her and told her it would be out on the news and she 
said I don’t reckon sister done the wrong thing, I said no, 
why that was awright.

Q. Now did she express any surprise that her daughter 
was a plaintiff in this lawsuit on that occasion? A. Well 
I don’t understand.

Q. Well, did Mrs. Kirkland, was Mrs. Kirkland sur­
prised that her daughter was a plaintiff in this lawsuit? 
A. Was she surprised?

Q. Yes. A. I don’t know.
Q. Well, did she tell you that her daughter had not au-

—241—
thorized the lawsuit— A. (Interrupting) No.

Q. (Continuing) the lawsuit being brought? A. No, she 
didn’t.

Q. Did she say anything further about her daughter in 
this lawsuit other than you have related? A. No.

Q. Did she ask you if you were a plaintiff in the lawsuit? 
A. No, she did not.

Q. Now were there any other persons present in that 
conversation? A. No.

Q. How many people were at the meeting? A. Well 
about seven or eight.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



205

Q. Were any of the others plaintiffs in this lawsuit other 
than Mrs. Lesper Griffin? A. Yes, I remember one.

Q. Who was that? A. Uh that’s Mrs. Lewis. Mr. Willie 
Earl Lewis his wife was there. I don't know whether her 
name—

Q. (Interrupting) That’s the mother of Lucy Lee Lewis, 
—at this point counsel and witness both talking and unable 
to understand remainder of question— ? A. That’s right.

—242—
Q. Is that right? A. Yes.
Q. Now did you ever talk to Ruthie Nell McBeth about 

this lawsuit? A. No, I didn’t.
Q. And Ruthie Nell McBeth never talked to you about 

it? A. No.
Q. Did you know Jess Brown’s address in Jackson at 

the time this lawsuit was brought? A. Well, I have it in a 
book at the house. I didn’t just remember it you know but 
I had his address.

Q. And how had you gotten his address? A. I got his 
address at the meeting the night Mrs. Kirkland and myself 
and the others was there at Mrs. Sanders.

Q. The meeting at Mrs. Sanders’ house? A. That’s right.
Q. Did he give it to you? A. Yes, he gave us all his 

address.
Q. He gave everybody there his address? A. Uh hunh.
Q. Now Mrs. Hudson, I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 

9 in evidence, Your Honor, and call your attention to the 
first signature on the first page. Is that your signature? 
A. Yes.

—243—
Q. And did you place it there? A. Yes, I did.
Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit Number 7 for iden­

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



206

tification and call your attention to the tenth signature and 
ask that if that is your signature? A. Yes, it is.

Q. And did you place it there? A. Yes, I did.

Attorney Ming: For your information, Your
Honor, Respondent’s Exhibit Number 7 for identifi­
cation is what has been referred to here as the second 
petition.

The Court: I am keeping up with them.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Can you tell us about when you signed the petition 
that I just showed you, Mrs. Hudson? A. No, I can’t.

The Court: I call your attention to the fact that 
most of your exhibits are merely offered for iden­
tification.

Attorney Ming: That’s correct, Your Honor. I 
will offer them if I may when it seems I have sup­
plied a sufficient foundation.

The Court: I wanted to be sure you didn’t forget 
it.

—2 4 4 -
Attorney Ming: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q. Can you tell us, Mrs. Hudson, about when you signed 
that second petition? A. No, I don’t, I can’t remember.

Q. Well, can you tell us the circumstances under which 
you signed it? Where did you sign it? A. Uh the first one 
that you showed me I remember well it was at the church 
at a meeting at the church one night.

The Court: Just answer what he asked you. He 
asked you about the second one. Don’t go answering

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



207

him about the first, he is not asking you about that. 
Just answer his question.

By Attorney Ming:
Q. What about the second one? A. I don’t remember 

where I signed that one.
Q. You don’t remember? A. No.
Q. Well, did somebody bring it to you to sign? A. The 

second one or the first?
Q. The second? A. Uh I don’t remember, I don’t remem­

ber where they brought it to me.
Q. Did you read the two petitions and the retainer that 

I just showed you before you signed them? A. Yes, I read
—245—

each one before I signed it.
Q. And what was your understanding as to what the 

purpose was of hiring Mr. Brown and the other lawyers 
with respect to the school matter? A. To desegregate the 
schools.

Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.

Cross Examination by Judge Pyle:

Q. How was it that you were present in these meetings 
with the School Board of Leake County that you told us 
about a few minutes ago? A. Well uh the Board called a 
meeting for the community of Harmony.

Q. Were you put on this special committee to negotiate 
with the School Board? A. No.

Q. But you do know that all of the earlier discussions and 
in fact all of the discussions with the School Board had to 
do with getting the Harmony School back didn’t it? A. 
That’s right.

Doing Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



208

Q. That you nor none of the other persons present rep­
resenting the colored people in Leake County talked about 
integrating the schools of Leake County with the members 
of the School Board in any of these meetings did you? A.

—2 4 6 -
No.

Q. And in talking among yourselves when you were talk­
ing to Bertha Kirkland and Ruthie Nell McBeth and the 
other people in the community up until sometime in 1961 
all the discussion was centered around trying to get the 
Harmony School back wasn’t it? A. Yes.

Q. And it wasn’t until Jess Brown and a woman by the 
name of Constance Baker Motley came into the picture 
that you got on this subject of integrating the schools was 
it? A. It was befo that time.

Q. Well, who first brought up the matter of integrating 
the schools? A. Well I don’t remember.

Q. Now if you had already signed this document entitled 
retainer which is one of respondent’s one in a group of 
Respondent’s Exhibit 3 and you had already signed this 
original petition Respondent’s Exhibit 9 why was it that you 
signed another petition Respondent’s Exhibit Number 7? 
A. Well I don’t remember, I don’t remember the date of 
the uh meeting with the Board or either the dates of the 
others.

Q. Well, now did anybody explain or undertake to ex­
plain to you when they brought around this second peti­
tion why it was necessary that you sign that petition? A. 
We would talk about it in our meetings.

—247—-
Q. But don’t you remember that what Jess Brown said 

to you was along with others that he didn’t know who 
wanted to be a party to the lawsuit and therefore he wanted

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



209

those who really 'wanted to be a party to the lawsuit to 
sign this second petition. Isn’t that what took place! A. 
I don’t remember.

Q. You don’t remember! A. No.
Q. You do know that he prepared this second petition, 

that is Brown prepared the second petition which you 
signed, Number 7, don’t you! A. Well uh the petition was 
brought in there. I don’t remember who who prepared it.

Q. But no explanation was given to you or the other 
people who signed this second petition as to the reason or 
need for the second petition! A. No, I don’t remember. I 
don’t remember.

Q. You do know that it bears the signatures of only about 
15 or 16 people whereas the original petition bore the 
signatures of about 53 people don’t you! A. That's right.

Q. What happened to these other people do you know 
whose names did not show up on the second petition! A. I 
don’t know the names of uh who uh didn’t show up because 
some had removed them.

—248—
Q. And prior to the time that the suit was filed you 

knew that Euthie Nell McBeth had not signed the second 
petition didn’t you! A. No, I didn’t, I didn’t know who 
had signed it.

Q. What relation is Euthie Nell McBeth to you! A. 
She’s a cousin of mine.

Q. But you were never present at anytime when Euthie 
Nell McBeth was present in one of these meetings when 
you heard her convey to E. Jess Brown the message that 
she desired him to represent her as one of the complainants 
in this suit did you! A. No.

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Cross



210

Dovie Hudson—for Respondent—Cross 

By the Court:

Q. Is Eutide Nell McBride regarded in her community 
as a truthful person? A. I wouldn’t know.

Q. You don’t know whether she is or not? A. No.

Judge Pyle: McBeth, Your Honor.

By the Court:

Q. McBeth I mean, excuse me. Let me restate that. Do 
you know what the reputation of Euthie Nell McBeth is in 
the community for telling the truth? A. No.

—249—
Q. You don’t know? A. No.
Q. She is your cousin and in a small community you 

don’t know that? A. No sir, she stays in a distant from 
me and I never have you know much contact with her.

Q. How far do you live from her? A. Well I think about 
three miles more or less.

'The Court: All right.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. What was this you were telling the Court in response 
to counsel Ming’s question about a conversation at Lesper 
Griffin’s house with Bertha Kirkland when she was under­
taking to tell you about some tv or radio interviewer being 
there? A. Yes, you want me to repeat what?

Q. I want to know who was doing the talking, was it 
Bertha Kirkland or somebody else? A. Bertha Kirkland.

Q. And she was the one who was giving the information 
about the shooting into the home? A. No.

Q. Bertha Kirkland, that’s the thing I didn’t understand, 
did not tell you that she told the newsman that her home 
had been fired into? A. No.



211

Q. Did she? A. No.
Q. And you know as a matter of fact that the Kirkland 

home where Euthie Nell McBeth and her children live was 
not fired into don't you? A. I haven’t heard nothing 
about it.

Q. Have you visited in that home since— A. (Inter­
rupting) No, I haven’t.

Q. (Continuing) October, 1962? A. No, I haven’t.
Q. But you know its general knowledge in the community 

that the house was not fired into don’t you? A. That’s 
right.

Judge Pyle: That’s all.

(Witness excused.)

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Direct

-—250—

L ester Cleo H udson called as a witness for and on behalf 
of Eespondent, was sworn and testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:
Q. Will you tell us your name and address please? A. 

Lester Cleo Hudson, Route 3, Carthage, Mississippi.
Q. Is that in the community commonly known as the 

Harmony community, Mr. Hudson? A. That’s right.
—251—

Q. And what is your business or occupation? A. 
Farmer.

Q. Is your wife Mrs. Winson Hudson? A. Right, yes 
sir.

Q. You know Euthie Nell McBeth? A. Sure.
Q. How long have you known her? A. Practically all of 

her life.
Q. Do you know her mother Mrs. Bertha Kirkland? A. 

Sure.



2 1 2

Q. Now prior to 1961 did you have any occasion to par­
ticipate in any discussions about the Harmony community 
schools? A. With who?

Q. Well, did you participate in any discussion with any­
body? A. Well, not that I know of.

Q. Did you ever talk to the School Board about the 
schools ? A. Oh sure.

Q. Who was present? A. Well, each member of the 
School Board was five of them counting the Superinten­
dent and I don’t know whether the lawyer was in there 
or not.

—252—
Q. You mean lawyer for School Board? A. That’s right, 

one time I remember talking to him.
Q. When you say lawyer for the School Board to whom 

do you have reference? A. Mr. Davidson.
Q. Do you recognize Mr. Davidson in the Court room? 

A. Sure.
Q. Will you point him out for us? A. Gentleman sitting 

in the middle.
Q. May the record show the witness has testified Mr. 

Davidson is sitting at counsel table?

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now when was it you talked to the School Board when 
Mr. Davis was present? A. Well, they met over at the 
uh baptist my the church over in our community.

Q. What’s the name of that church? A. Galilee Baptist 
Church.

Q. Galilee Baptist Church. Can you tell us when this 
was? A. That wuz I don’t just recall but it wuz. befo any 
petitions had been I don’t know just the day.

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent-—Direct



213

Q. It was before any petitions had been sent to the
—253—

School Board? A. That’s right.
Q. By the way, do yon know R. Jess Brown? A. Sure.
Q. When did you first meet him? A. I met him oh its 

been some I just don’t recall just what day but I have 
been knowing him something like three or tour years.

Q. Were you present at a discussion with Mr. Brown and 
Mrs. Motley and some members residents of your com­
munity in Jackson in 1961 at the NAA.CP office? A. I 
did. I was.

Q. Can you tell us how many people were there? A. I 
will try to call them by name.

Q. All right, give us their names? A. Uh Mr. Murray 
McDonald and his wife, Mr. Jodie Lee McDonald, Mr. 
Willie Groffin and his wife, Mr. Joe C. Hudson, Mrs. Dovie 
Hudson and myself. I think that’s all.

Q. Was your wife present? A. Sure.
Q. Now this meeting at Galilee Baptist Church with the 

School Board at which Mr. Davis was present was that 
before or after the meeting that you had in Jackson at 
which these people you were just telling us about was 
present? A. I ’m think I ’m pretty sure it was befo.

—254—
Q. It was before that. Well now, what was the discussion 

at the Galilee Baptist Church ? A. Uh uh we had met with 
the Board a day or two befo that in Carthage and they met 
asked the community to meet with them over at the Galilee 
Baptist Church so we were asking them then to give us 
Harmony School back at that time so when they met with 
us at Galilee Baptist Church they told us that if we would 
get up something like $30,000.00 they would open the school 
up and so after they said that we didn’t have no way of

Lester- Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



214

getting up any money so I just got up and walked out of the 
meeting.

Q. Now did you have any further discussion on that 
occasion with the School Board lawyer Mr. Davidson? A. 
After the after the program, I mean after the meeting he 
walked out by me, I was standing on the outside and he said 
Hudson I would like to speak with you, he said what would 
it take to satisfy those people, these people, I said Mr. 
Davidson all it would take is to put Harmony School right 
back on that hill. Well he says I am afraid they won’t get 
that. I says well Mr. Davidson I ’m just going to tell you 
what the truth and what’s going happen, I says if you don’t 
put it back they are going to integrate. He says well I am 
afraid they will just have to do that.

Q. Was anybody else present when you had this con­
versation with the School Board lawyer? A. My wife was

— 2 5 5 -
present.

Q, Your wife was present. Any other persons? A. No.
Q. Now was this before or after you met with Jess Brown 

and Mrs. Constance Motley? A. That was before.
Q. Will you tell us how long before? A. I just don’t 

remember.
Q. Well now you know Buthie Nell McBeth? A. Sure.
Q. How long have you known her? A. Practically all 

of her life.
Q. Do you know Bertha Kirkland? A. Sure.
Q. How long have you known her? A. I have known her 

around thirty or thirty-five.
Q. Will you keep your voice up? A. Thirty or thirty- 

five years.
Q. Were you ever present at any meetings at which the 

matter of integration of the Leake County Schools was dis-

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent-—Direct



215

cussed where Ruthie Nell McBetli was? A. Mrs. Louella 
Sanders.

Q. Ruthie Nell McBeth was there ? A. Sure.
0 Was Jess Brown there? A. Uh 1 don’t remember

—256—
where he was there. I don't think he was there trie night, I 
don’t think he was.

Q. Well, can you tell us whether that meeting was before 
this lawsuit was filed or after ? A. It was before.

Q. How long before? A. I just don’t remember but 1
know it was before how7 long.

Q. Were you present at any meetings where Bertha Kirk­
land was when the matter of a lawsuit to integrate Leake 
County Schools was brought up and discussed? A. Sure I 
w7as.

Q. How many such meetings? A. Aw something like 
two or three meetings.

Q. Did Mrs. Kirkland participate in those discussions? 
A. Sure.

Q. In the meeting where Ruthie Nell was present did 
she participate in the discussion? A. I in thinking Im 
pretty sure she did.

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 9 and ask you if 
you ever saw that document before? A. I think I have. I 
know I have.

Q. Were you, did you help circulate this petition? A. I 
did.

0 Did you ever take this petition to Ruthie Nell McBeth?
—257—

A. Well, I, I carried my wife uh Mrs. Kirkland’s home 
and uh Mrs. McBeth wasn’t there, she was up at the little 
store and Mrs. Kirkland told us to be sure to stop by the 
store and uh see Ruthie Nell, said she wanted to sign it.

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



216

Q. And what did you do? A. Well, we left there and 
went on to the store to her little place of business.

Q. How far is it from the Kirkland home to what you call 
the store. A. I imagine its about uh three not hardly 
about two-tenths of a mile or maybe three-tenths.

Q. Two-tenths or three-tenths of a mile? A. Approxi­
mately.

Q. I see and did you find Ruthie Nell there? A. Sure.
Q. Tell the Court what happened, if anything? A. Uh 

I I went inside the store, my wife stayed out in the truck 
and X told her that my wife wanted to see her out to the 
truck so she went on out there but I just stayed in the store, 
it was raining and I just stayed in the store until she came 
back in.

Q. When you say she came back to whom do you refer? 
A. I mean Mrs. McBeth.

Q. Did you have any conversation with her at that time? 
A. Did I?

—258—
Q. Yes. A. Only I just told her that my wife wanted to 

talk with her, that’s all.
Q. Now after this lawsuit was filed did you have any 

conversation with Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. I didn’t have 
any with Ruthie Nell.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Mrs. Kirkland? 
A. I did.

Q. Will you tell us when that was? A. It was after the 
petitions had gone in. I don’t just recall the date.

Q. Was it before or after the lawsuit was filed? A. It 
was befo.

Q. Can you tell us where this conversation was? A. In 
Mrs. Kirkland’s home.

Lester Cleo Hudson-—for Respondent—Direct



217

Q. Who was present? A. Uh she and her husband was 
there but didn’t anybody hear the conversation but just 
she and myself.

Q. Now what time of day or night was this? A. This 
was in the day time bout three o’clock.

Q. About three p.m.f A. That’s right.
Q. Tell us about this conversation? A. Mrs. Kirkland 

asked me says Cleo says uh when they going to file the suit.
I says I don’t know, I say are you ready for it. She say

—259—
sure I am. She spoke and says well I will tell you what j 
says we going to have to fire Jess Brown and git us an­
other lawyer, says Jess Brown ain’t got sense enough to 
file the suit.

Q. Did you have any further conversation with her? A.
I didn’t.

Q. Did you have any conversation with her after the 
lawsuit was filed? A. I don’t recall. I don t think I did.

Q. Now—

By the Court:
Q. What was the purpose of this idea of integration was 

that to force getting your school back or were you interested 
in integration as such or merely using that as an entering' 
wedge to get your school back? A. Well, I my understand ■ 
ing was, Yore Honor, uh after they didn’t get the school back 
they meant to integrate. It wasn’t to get the school back.

Q. I see. In other words you abandoned the idea of 
getting your school back when you hit upon this idea of 
integration. Is that true? A. Not to get the school back.

Q. It had nothing to do with getting the school back 
this idea of integration when you decided to integrate the 
white school that wasn’t any part of a move or any desire or

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Direct



Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Cross

— 260-

purpose on the part of the negroes to get that Harmony 
School restored was it? Would that be true? A. Uh it 
wasn’t to get the school back.

The Court: I am interested in that because there 
seems to be a little tie in there with the employ­
ment of counsel. All right.

Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.

Cross Examination by Judge P yle:

Q. Cleo, you are the husband of Winson Hudson who has 
previously testified aren’t you? A. I am.

Q. And would you mind telling the Court what you have 
been convicted of? I said would you mind telling the Court 
what crimes you have been convicted of? A. I have never 
been convicted of a crime.

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, I suggest that is an 
improper question of the witness in the absence of 
counsel having in his possession evidence—

Judge Pyle: Well how do you know I haven’t got it 
in my possession.

— 261—

The Court: Just a minute.
Attorney Ming: I object. I suggest that’s an im­

proper question unless there is evidence of the wit­
ness having been convicted of a crime which counsel 
has in his possession.

The Court: He has answered the question. He 
said he wasn’t convicted. I will take that as true. 
Go ahead.



219

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Cross 

By Judge Pyle:
Q. You said you were a farmer didn’t you! A. 'That's 

right.
Q. You got a little sideline business though haven’t you? 

A. What you mean by sideline business!
Q. What is your sideline? What other business you do 

besides farm? A. Well, I got a few milk cows. I thought 
that went under the head of farming. That’s all.

Q. That’s all you do? A. That’s right.
Q. Did anybody explain to you, Cleo, why it was neces­

sary for you to sign this second petition when you had 
already signed the retainer and had signed a hist peti­
tion? A I only carried the first petition. I didn't carry, I

— 262—

didn’t circulate any of the others.
Q. Well, what do you know about the people who signed 

the first petition going to the School Board and having their 
names removed from that petition? Do you know anything 
about that? A. Only what came out in the Carthaginian.

Q. But you do know that many of those people who signed 
the original petition when they found out that the puipose 
was not to get the Harmony School back but for some other 
purpose they went to the School Board and asked that their 
names be removed don’t you ? A. I know that some of them 
did that, yes.

Q. And you know when Jess Brown came into the picture 
that he prepared this second petition and had it circulated 
in order that he might know whose names to use in filing 
any suits in the court don’t you? A. Is that the retainer?

Q. No, the second petition that went around? A. I didn’t
carry the second petition around.

Q. Did you see the retainer they are talking about or 
did just your wife see it? Who signed it for your family, 
anybody? A. 11 I ’m not a plaintiff.



2 2 0

Q. That’s right and you don’t have any children in school? 
A. I have a daughter in Jackson College.

—263—
Q. Who asked you to take this first petition around? A. 

Uh after we had a meeting, I was in the meeting and it 
was my community and I just after I couldn’t sign the peti­
tion because I didn’t have any children it was my com­
munity and I was interested in it and I told them I would 
carry it around.

Q. Who put out this word about the McBeth and Kirk­
land home being shot into up there? Who gave Jess Brown 
that information to put in his complaint in the lawsuit? 
A. I didn’t give it to him.

Q. You know as a matter of fact that the Kirkland home 
was not shot into in the fall of 1962 don’t you? A. Uh 
Sam Kirkland’s home wasn’t shot in.

Q. And that’s the home where Ruthie Nell McBeth and 
her children live isn’t it? A. That’s right.

Judge Pyle: We have nothing further.

Redirect Examination by Attorney Ming-.

Q. Mr. Hudson, do you know why anybody asked to 
have their name removed from the first petition to the 
school board? A. Beg pardon.

Q. Do you know why anybody asked to have their name 
removed from the first petition to the School Board? A.

—264—
Naw, I don’t know.

Q. Was there a Kirkland home shot into in October 
1962? A. Sure.

Q. What was the name of that Kirkland? A. Uh Glenn 
Kirkland.

Lester Cleo Hudson—for Respondent—Redirect



221

Q. Is lie any relative to Sam and Bertha Kirkland? A. 
IJh Sam’s son.

Q. How far is that from the house in which Buthie Nell 
McBeth lives? A. Might be a tenth of a mile.

Q. Is it between the house in which Buthie Nell lives 
and the store? A. That’s right.

Attorney Ming: Nothing further, Your Honor. 
The Court: All right.

Janies Overstreet—for Respondent—Direct

J ames Overstreet called as a witness for and on behalf 
of Bespondent, was sworn and testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. What is your name and address? A. James Over- 
street.

Q. Where do you live? A. Carthage, Boute 3.
Q. Will you keep your voice up so the Judge and these 

gentlemen at counsel table can hear you. Are you married 
or single, Mr. Overstreet? A. Married.

Q. And what is your wife’s name? A. Lula Virginia.
Q. You have any children? A. Yas suh.
Q. How many children do you have? A. Have six.
Q. And what are their names? A. Carolyn, James— 

witness mumbling and unable to understand—and Henry.
Q. Are you one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit? A. I am.
Q. 11 show you one of the pages of Bespondent’s Exhibit 

3 for identification and ask you if that is your signature? 
A. That’s my signature there.

Q. And can you tell us when you placed your signature 
on that document? A. No, I can’t.

(Witness excused.)

-265-



2 2 2

Q. Well, I call your attention to the fact that its dated 
December 21,1961 and ask you if that refreshes your recol-

—2 6 6 -
lection as to when you signed it? A. I really don’t remem­
ber when I signed it.

Q. That’s your signature? A. That’s my signature.

By the Court:

Q. Did you date it at the same time you signed it?

Attorney Ming: Mr. Overstreet, the Judge is talk­
ing to you.

By the Court:

Q. Did you date that document at the same time you 
signed it or did somebody else date it? A. Someone else 
dated it.

Q. Was it dated when you signed it? A. I disremember. 
Q. You don’t remember? A. Nawsir.

The Court: All right. Go ahead.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Do you recall who brought this retainer to you to 
sign? A. The first one uh Mrs. Hudson brought it.

Q. Well, now the one the document that I just showed 
you, Mr. Overstreet, who brought that to you to sign if 
you recall? A. No suh, I don’t recall.

Q. You don’t recall it. Did you ever attend any meet­
ings of your neighbors in which there was a discussion of

—267—
the integration of the schools in your community? A. I 
did.

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Direct



223

Q. How many such meetings did you attend! A. Two I 
believe. I am quite sure it was two.

Q. Was Mr. Brown at either of those meetings! A. No
suh, he wasn’t.

Q. Was Ruthie Nell McBeth at either of them? A. Not 
while I was there.

Q. Was Bertha Kirkland there? A. No suh.
Q. Now calling your attention to October, 1962 did you 

live in the same place you live now? A. 1 did. I do.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. Between three 

or four years.
Q. Where did you live before that, Mr. Overstreet? A. 

the same route bout a quarter of a mile from where I live 
at now.

Q. Hid I ask you what is your business or occupation? 
A. I work at Presto Manufacturing in Jackson.

Q. Work where? A. At Presto Manufacturing.
Q. Presto, P-r-e-s-t-o-e? A. That’s right.
Q. Manufacturing Company in Jackson, Mississippi. Did

—268—
you work there in December, 1962? A. I did.

Q. How long have you worked there? A. Uh December 
will be eight years.

Q. Now calling your attention to October 4th, 1962 was 
your house shot into? A. It was but I don’t know about 
the date.

Q. Well, can you tell us the day of the week? A. On a 
Thursday night.

Q. On a Thursday night? A. That’s right.
Q. Around the first of October. A. I disremember what 

month it was but it was on a Thursday night.
Q. Was it in the summer or fall? A. I believe it was 

in the uh fall, I am not sure.

James Overstreet—for Respondent■—Direct



224

Q. Now who was in your house when it was shot into1? 
A. My family, my whole family.

Q. Your whole family? A. That’s right, all except my­
self.

Q. Now had your house ever been shot into before? A. 
It hadn’t.

Q. How long have you lived in Mississippi? A. All my 
life.

—269—
The Court: Did you find out who shot in your 

house?

A. No suh, Judge.
Q. You say it was at night time? A. Yes suh.
Q. And you wasn’t at home ? A. No suh.
Q. You stay down in Jackson? A. No suh.
Q. You come to work from your home everyday but you 

just didn’t happen to be at home at that particular time? 
A. Judge, I was working, I work the night shift, swing 
shift.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. But you go back and forth every day? A. I do.
Q. That’s what the Judge asked you and when did you 

learn your house had been shot into? A. After getting 
off work and went home. In fact whenever I got home my 
wife told me that somebody had shot so somebody had 
pulled a car up there and I told her might have been a 
car that backfired and the next morning I got up and left 
and went to see about buying a cow.

Q. Buying a cow, not a car? A. A cow, yes, that’s right,
—270—

so they asked me did they shoot in my house, I said naw I

James Overstreet—for Respondent-—Direct



225

reckon not, they said I think so, I said well my wife said 
when I came in last night so 1 went back to the house then 
and—unable to understand as witness mumbling-—.

By the Court:
Q. Went back home? A. Went back home. See I wasn’t 

home when they asked me about it.
Q. I understand but I didn’t hear what you said you 

did after you got home? A. Aw the next morning I say 
I went to go see bout buying a cow.

Q. I heard that but I didn’t hear what you did when you 
went back home? A. Oh I went to check to see did they 
shoot in there and which they had, I told them some of them 
report it which we have, I believe Mr. S. 0. Williams called 
and after I went back said they was going to meet down 
at the store said the law was going to come over which 
he did, I believe he said it was just the deputy.

Q. Did somebody shoot in your house? A. Yes suh.
Q. You found some evidence? A. Yes suh.
Q. What was it a shotgun or a rifle? A. Shotgun.

—271—
Q. Shotgun? A. Yes suh.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. What evidence did you find, Mr. Overstreet? A. Uh 
the shots in the uh in the porch and one of the windows, 
they shot up on the roof, it seemed to be as they was leav­
ing, they shot straight into my drive way into my porch.

By the Court:

Q. It break your glasses out? A. Broke one of the win­
dows.

Q. Broke one of your windows? A. Yes suh.

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Direct



2 2 6

Q. Did anybody get hurt? A. No suh.
Q. You don’t have any idea who that was? A. No suh, 

I don’t.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I believe you testified in answer to His Honor’s 
question that you said you were going to or you were 
told by some of your neighbors that the law was going to 
come and investigate. Is that right, Mr. Overstreet? A. 
That’s right.

Q. Now did you talk to a peace officer of Leake County
-—272—

about this matter? A. Yes suh.
Q. And who was it you talked to and when? A. Uh he 

was a deputy shaiff. I just can’t recall his name.
Q. Well, when did you talk to him? A. Friday morning 

he came over to the store and met there.
Q. What store? A. S.O. Williams.
Q. Now were there other people there? A. That’s right, 

yes suh.
Q. Who was, who else was present? A. Uh Joe C. Hud­

son, Lafayette Stribling—unable to understand, witness 
mumbling—.

Q. Was the owner of the store there? A. Yes, he he 
came too.

Q. Now did you yourself see any other buildings which 
had been shot into that night or the night before, I am 
sorry? A. I did.

Q. What buildings did you see that were shot into? A. 
S. 0. Williams store.

Q. Is that the store where you were talking to the deputy 
sheriff? A. That’s right.

James Overstreet—for Respondent-—Direct



227

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Direct

—273—
By the Court:

Q. What month and what year are we talking about that 
this shooting occurred? A. What year?

Q. What month and year? A, Uh it was ’62 but I don’t 
know what month it was.

Q. Was it in the fall? A. I believe.
Q. In the winter? A. I believe it was in the fall.
Q. Had your doors closed did you at the time? A. Yes 

suh, had the doors closed.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now what did you see at Mr. Williams’ store? A. 
Well, they shot one of the windows out in there and shot 
the door in the sign, he had a sign up there S. 0. Williams 
and they shot the sign.

Q. Was it rifle or shotgun? A. Shotgun.

By the Court:

Q. Was it the same size shot that was shot in your house? 
A. Well, they said, they said it was, Judge.

Q. Didn’t you find the shot in your woodwork? A. I
—274—

did.
Q. Could you tell what size shot they were ? A. I believe 

they said it was number, I really don’t know the number of 
the shots but I believe the deputy shaiff said it was number 
eight.

Q. Number eight shot, bird shot then? A. Yas suh, I 
believe that’s what he said it was.



228

Q. What about the size shot in the other place? A. He 
said they was the same size in the store and in the other 
houses too.

Q. S. 0. Williams is he a colored man too? A. He is, 
Judge.

Q. Was he active in the integration movement? A. No 
suh, I wouldn’t say he wuz. I really don’t know.

Q. Were you known to be active in the integration move­
ment? A. Well, I had been to meetings, Judge.

Q. Had you been given any publicity about your ac­
tivity? A. No suh, I hadn’t.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now did you examine the houses of these other people 
who said to the deputy that their houses had been shot into ? 
A. Uh I was with them, the deputy shaiff he went around

—275—
to all of them.

Q. And you went with him? A. Yas snh.
Q. Where all did you go, Mr. Overstreet? A. Uh Bobert 

Hunt—witness mumbling and unable to understand—.
Q. Give the reporter the names, he didn’t get them, Mr. 

Overstreet. A. Uh Essie Lee McKey and William Jackson 
and Lafayette Stribling which I didn’t go went from there 
to my house, James Overstreet, and I didn’t go any further.

Q. Now at the homes of these other people tell the Court 
what you saw? A. At the uh Bobert Hunt uh he had one 
of his windows shot in the top of one of his windows.

Q. You want to keep your voice up, Mr. Overstreet, so 
we can hear you? A. The top of his window was shot out 
and uh at uh Esther Lee McKey why they shot through her

James Overstreet—for Respondent-—Direct



229

glass door, it was pasteboard which the glass was broke out 
and she had pasteboard in it and uh couple of shots went 
through that pasteboard.

Q. What did you see at the other place? A. At William 
Jackson about four shots made there and two through the 
window and shot his window out and shot around the 
window about four places. In all about four shots made.

—276—
Q. Now had there ever been any shooting into homes of 

colored residents in that community that you know of prior 
to that time? A. Not as I knows of.

Q. Was there any shooting into the residences of negro 
members of that community after your house was shot into? 
A. After it was shot into ?

Q. Yes. A. The next night.
Q. The next night ? A. Yes, which was Friday night.
Q. Which was Friday night. Do you know what was 

shot into the next night? A. Yes, Ido.
Q. What was shot into? A. They shot in a cafe and a 

private home.
Q. Arid who owned the cafe? A. Uh it was Kirkland’s 

cafe, uh uh Ruthie Nell runs it, she may own it.
Q. And is the Kirkland you refer to her father in law, 

her step father Sam? A. Yes sir, that’s right.
Q. And who owned the house that was shot into? A. 

Sam’s boy.
—277—

Q. And what’s his name? A. Robert Glenn I believe.
Q. Now were you ever called on to testify in any court 

prior to this concerning this shooting? A. I wasn’t,
Q. Were you ever notified by the Sheriff of Leake County 

that any persons had been charged with shooting into your 
house? A. Had I been notified?

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Direct



230

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Cross 

Q. Yes. A. I wasn’t.
Q. You have any knowledge anybody was ever charged 

with shooting into your house? A. Been showed!
Q. Was anybody charged? A. Not as I knows of.
Q. Not as you know of? A. That’s right.

Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.

By the Court:

Q. Did you make any complaint against anybody to the 
Sheriff about the shootings in your home? A. Uh I didn’t 
under understand.

Q. The question was whether or not you made any com­
plaint to the constable or to a justice of the peace or a 
sheriff or a deputy sheriff about your home having been

- 2 7 8 -
shot into? A. Uh Judge, he came over that uh Friday 
morning and no more than we just carried him around and 
showed him the houses and I showed him my house and he 
looked at it.

Q. I understood that but my question was whether or 
not you made any complaint to any of those peace officers? 
A. No suh, I didn’t.

Q. You never have found any evidence then of who it 
was as I understand you? A. No sir, that’s right, I hadn’t.

The Court: All right.

Cross Examination by Judge Pyle:

Q. The only complaint that you made, James, was to 
Medger Evers, the field secretary of NAACP wasn’t it? 
A. Well, uh uh uh he asked me bout it, came there and I 
showed him where they had shot.



231

Q. And the complaints which were made about the shoot­
ing were made by the other people whose homes you have 
talked about being fired into were made to Medger Evers, 
the N A A (TP secretary weren’t they? A. I don’t know bout 
nobody buy myself.

Q. Now were all the homes which were fired into in the 
in Leake County in October, 1962 about the time your house 
was fired into homes of colored people? A. Uh fer as I

- -2 7 9 -
know it wuz because I didn’t see anybody else’s but just 
theirs you know.

Q. You know that on the same night that you say your 
house was fired into that the homes of two white people in 
that community were fired into also weren’t they? A. I 
really don’t know that because I I didn’t see it.

Q. Well, that was general knowledge and general talk in 
the community wasn’t it at the time?

Attorney Ming: Just a moment. I will object to 
what was general talk and general knowledge in the 
community, Your Honor. The witness can testify as 
to what he knows or does not know and that’s what 
he has done.

The Court: I think so but we have kind of gone 
afield here. I will see what he knows.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. What was the discussion at the time you were going 
around with the deputy sheriff about what other homes 
were fired into other than the ones that you have mentioned 
here? A. I really don’t know what was said about it uh 
uh uh I just showed carried him to my house showed where 
it was shot.

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Cross



232

Q. Do you know a white man by the Name of Charlie 
Hannah who lives in that neighborhood? A. I know of 
him.

— 280—

Q. And you know that his home was fired into at the same 
time that yours was? A. At the same, uh, I don’t know it 
were, I hadn’t seen it.

Q. Did you see all of these others ? A. I I I told the 
Judge uh the house I saw the S. 0. Williams store, Robert 
Hart, Essie Lee McKey and William Jackson and Lafayette 
Stribling.

Q. You know a Mrs. Major Hardage, H a r d a g e ,  who 
lives somewhere close to where you live, that’s a white 
woman isn’t it? A. That’s right.

Q. And her house was fired into the same night yours was 
wasn’t it? A. I don’t know that, I hadn’t, I didn’t see it.

Q. Well, that’s general talk and general knowledge in 
the community isn’t it?

Attorney Ming: Same objection, Your Honor.
The Court: All right. Overruled.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Wasn’t it talked that she was one of the people whose 
homes was fired into at the same time this shooting was

— 281-

taking place. A. They said that, I didn’t see it, I couldn’t 
say they did because I didn’t see it.

By the Court:

Q. Did you see all the others? A. Naw sir, I didn’t see 
them all.

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Cross



233

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Cross 

By Judge Pyle:
Q. Now S. 0. Williams, the colored man who has the 

store, is not a party to the lawsuit here that was filed to 
integrate the schools is he? A. I don’t know what he.

Q. Robert Hunt is not a party to that lawsuit is he? A. 
Not as I knows of, I don’t know what he is.

Q. And Essie Lee McKey isn’t a party to the lawsuit 
either is she! A. I don’t know, I don’t say she is.

Q. And William Jackson is not a party to the lawsuit 
for the integration of the schools? A. I couldn’t answer 
that question.

Q. Lafayette Stribling, one of the others that you named 
whose home was fired into, is not a party to the lawsuit? 
A. Now I really don’t know bout that.

Q. And this Robert Glenn Kirkland was not one of the 
parties to the lawsuit either? Now, James, all of the talk 
in the initial stages of the meetings that were had in your 
community in Leake County dealt with an effort to get back

-—282—
the Harmony School, isn’t that right? A. Uh naw suh, not 
after they had uh not when the meeting was it wasn’t.

Q. Through 1961 and prior to the time that a woman by 
the name of Constance Baker Motley and R. Jess Brown 
came into the picture along with Medger Evers the talk 
all turned around trying to get your school back the Har­
mony School didn’t it? A. No suh, that ain’t what they 
told me.

Q. How many petitions did you sign in connection with 
this matter of the school situation in Leake County? A. Uh 
two or three.

Q. This is your signature on this second petition right 
here isn’t it, the last name on it? A. That’s right. Beg 
your pardon. That’s my wife.



234

Q. Your wife wrote that? A. That’s right.
Q. But she wrote James Overstreet? A. That’s right, 

for me yas suh.
Q. Do you know why it was that she signed this petition 

Respondent’s Exhibit Number 7 for Identification— A. 
(Interrupting) Naw suh.

Q. (Continuing) when she had already signed one peti­
tion and a document called retainer? A. Say do I?

Q. When you had already signed two other documents
—283—

did anybody give you any reason as to why it was neces­
sary that this second petition here be signed? A. I can’t 
recall that, its been quite a while, I wouldn’t say on that.

Q. You know that what happened was that when the 
people who had signed the initial petition many of them 
found out that what you were trying to do was to integrate 
the schools they went and asked that their names be taken 
off that petition don’t you? A. Well, I don’t know whut 
they done about it. I don’t know whut they done or how 
they done about getting their names off.

Q. The truth of the matter is, James, you don’t know 
what was going on in connection with the school matters in 
Leake County because you were working down here in 
Jackson and taking care of your job and you were letting 
your wife and the other people up there run that part of it 
weren’t you? A. Naw suh, I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing that. 
I would go to meetings when I wasn’t working at night.

By the Court:

Q. Did you ever appear before the School Board to get 
the Harmony School back? A. Uh once I believe at the 
church.

Q. That was at the Galilee Church? A. Yas suh, at the 
Galilee Church.

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Cross



235

James Overstreet—for Respondent—Cross

—284—
Q. That’s a colored church isn’t it? A. That’s right.
Q. You never appeared before the School Board at any 

other time or at other place than this occasion at Galilee, is 
that right? A. Galilee, that’s right.

Q. And your sole purpose in that meeting as I understand 
you was to get your school back at Harmony. Is that right? 
A. At the time, yas suh.

The Court: All right.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. What did Attorney it. Jess Brown tell you that he was 
going to do for you as your attorney in this matter? A. 
I didn’t, I didn’t talk with Jess Brown.

Q. You never talked to him. You never agreed to pay him 
any money to represent you did you ? A. I did not.

Q. You never did hear Ruthie Nell McBeth talk to R. 
Jess Brown either about representing her did you? A. I 
didn’t. I wasn’t at the meeting.

Q. And you don’t know of any meeting when Ruthie Nell 
McBeth was present and consented to or indicated in any 
way to R. Jess Brown that she desired him to represent 
her as her attorney in the filing of an integration suit in

—285—
Leake County did you? A. I wasn’t at the meeting.

Judge Pyle: We don’t have anything further. 
Attorney Ming: I have nothing further, Your 

Honor.

(Witness excused.)
Attorney Ming: I will call Mrs. McDonald.



236

B ehonor M cD onald called as a witness for and on be­
half of Respondent, was sworn and testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Will you state your name and address? A. Behonor 
McDonald.

Q. How do you spell that, Mrs. McDonald? A. B e­
h o n o r .

Q. B e h o n o r ?  A. That’s right.
Q. Where do you live? A. Carthage, Miss, Route 3.
Q. Is that what’s ordinarily known as the Harmony 

community? A. That’s right.
Q. Are you married or single? A. Married.

—286—
Q. What is your husband’s name? A. Murray McDon­

ald.
Q. How do you spell that? A. M u r r i e.
Q. Now how long have you lived in the Harmony com­

munity? A. All my life.
Q. What is your husband’s business or occupation? A. 

Farmer.
Q. Do you have any children? A. I have three. •
Q. Do you have any children of school age? A. No.
Q. Do you know Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. I do.
Q. How long have you known her? A. All her life.
Q. Do you know Bertha Kirkland? A. I do.
Q. How long have you known her? A. Well, probably 

all her life too.
Q. Now I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 1 and ask you 

if you saw that document signed? A. I did.
—287—

Q. Who was present? A. Mrs. Winson Hudson.
Q. Anybody else? A. No. Yes, Mrs. Bertha Kirkland.
Q. Mrs. Ruthie Nell McBeth. A. Ruthie Nell.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



237

Q. Where was that? A. At Mrs. Bertha Kirkland’s 
home.

Q. Mrs. Bertha Kirkland’s home.

The Court: What is that document?
Attorney Ming: This is the retainer, Your Honor.

Q. Did uh, strike that. Who gave you and Mrs. Hudson 
this retainer to take to Ruthie Nell McBethf A. I think 
it came through by the president.

Q. By president whom do you mean? A. Mrs. Clara 
Dodson.

Q. President of what? A. NAAPC.
Q. NAACP Leake County branch. A. Leake County 

branch.
Q. Now did you take copies of this retainer to any other 

people to sign? A. I did.
— 288—

Q. Were you alone or with someone? A. With some­
one.

Q. And were you always with the same person? A. 
That’s right.

Q. And who was that? A. Mrs. Winson Hudson.
Q. And how many people did you take this retainer to 

have signed? A. Fifty some.
Q. Fifty some?

By the Court:
Q. Did Ruthie Nell McBeth understand what that re­

tainer contract was when she signed it? A. She said she 
did.

Q. Did she read it? A. She did.
Q. Read it in your presence? A. She did.
Q. She is a pretty well educated woman isn’t she? A. 

She is.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



238

Q. Did you discuss the petition with her talking about 
what the purpose of it was and did she make any comment 
to you about her wishes or understanding? A. No, after 
she read it she just signed it.

Q. Made no comment to you, didn’t say that’s what she
—289—

wanted done or wasn’t what she wanted done, just signed it? 
A. Naw, we didn’t have any comments over it.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I call your attention to the fact that this re­
tainer bears the date of December 20, 1961. Was it signed 
on or about the date that it bears? A. It was.

Q. Now did you have any conversation with Euthie Nell 
McBeth about this retainer or about this lawsuit after she 
signed the retainer? A. I did not.

Q. Did you see Euthie Nell McBeth between December 
20, 1961 and March 7, 1963? A. I did.

Q. Well, could you tell us how many times you saw her? 
A. Probably I know at least once at a meeting.

Q. At least once at a meeting. Now where was that meet­
ing? A. At the home of Mrs. Louella Sanders.

Q. Was Jess Brown there? A. No, he wasn’t there.
Q. Was there any discussion of the matter of the in­

tegration of Leake County schools? A. Yes, uh Medger 
Evers was there.

—290—
Q. Medger Evers was there? A. That’s right.
Q. Can you tell us when that was? A. Well, I don’t 

know the exact date. It was somewhere sometime in ’62.
Q. Was it before the lawsuit was filed? A. Uh I dis- 

remember.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



239

Q. Well, was it after the retainer that I showed yon was 
signed! A. It was in the sprang I thank after the re­
tainer.

Q. In the spring of 1962! A. ’62.
Q, Tell ns, can you tell us what that discussion was , 

about the integration of the schools! A. Uh he was just 
explaining to them that what it was for now for integra­
tion, that he wasn’t there to try to get Harmony School 
back he wanted them all to understand, he taken each one 
individual that was there at the meeting that night of 
the complainants and told them his purpose was for in­
tegration and they all went with him, he call them name 
by name and asked them if they was willing to go with him.

Q. Well, now how many people were there that night! 
A. Uh I don’t know somewhere in about it was twenty 
something.

Q Well, now, Mrs. McDonald, I show you Respondent’s
—2 9 1 -

Exhibit 3 for Identification, those are the other retainers, 
Your Honor, and I ask you to look at each of those sheets 
and tell me how many of those were signed, if any, in your 
presence and if you will tell us their names as you go 
through them. A. Just the retainers!

Q. That’s right. A. Jim Dodson, Alice Greer, Dovie 
Hudson, Henrene Greer, Lesper Griffin, Willie Earl Lewis, 
0. W. McKey, James Overstreet, Essie Lou Townsend, 
Doc Sanders.

Q. Now were the people whose names you have just given 
in response to my inquiry the people who signed those 
retainers in your presence! A. That’s right.

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, I will offer Respon­
dent’s Exhibit 3 for Identification in evidence and

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



240

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct

in support of my offer may I say to the Court the 
witness here has identified all save two of those 
people having signed in her presence. The court 
will recall that two other witnesses identified their 
own signatures.

The Court: All right, that exhibit containing 
twelve retainers, twenty-four pages, marked Re­
spondent’s Exhibit 3 for identification, may be ad­
mitted in evidence now and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit 3.

(Received in evidence and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit 3.)

—292—
By Attorney Ming:

Q. Mrs. McDonald, did Ruthie Nell McBeth ever come 
to you and ask you any questions about her being included 
as a plaintiff after March 7, 1963? A. No.

Q. Did Bertha Kirkland ever raise any questions with 
you or make any statements to you about Ruthie Nell 
McBeth being included as a complainant in this lawsuit 
after March 7, 1963? A. No.

Q. Did you see Bertha Kirkland after March 7, 1963? 
A. Yes, I saw her quite often.

Q. You would see her quite often? A. That’s right.
Q. Now what do you mean by quite often? A. Aw at 

least once or twice a month.
Q. At least once or twice a month? A. —witness mum­

bling and unable to understand—
Q. I am sorry. A. We go to same church.
Q. You go to the same church? A. Right.
Q. Did you see her once or twice a month since March 

7, 1963? A. Yes. Yes, I have.



241

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct

—293—
Q. Have you seen Ruthie Nell McBeth since March., 19631 

A. Yes.
Q. How often have you seen her! A. Uh some most 

of the times at least once a month.
Q. At least once a month. You are not related to Bertha 

Kirkland or Ruthie Nell McBeth are you! A. I am.
Q. You are! A. By marriage.
Q. By marriage! A. Yes.
Q. What do you mean by that! A. Bertha married my 

cousin.
Q. Bertha Kirkland married your cousin! A. That’s 

right.
Q. Is that correct? A. That’s right.
Q. That’s Sam Kirkland! A. Sam Kirkland.

By the Court:
Q. What is Ruthie Nell McBeth’s reputation in her com­

munity for telling the truth? A. Uh uh Yo Honor, I 
wouldn’t know too much about that.

Q. You don’t know whether she is a truthful person or
—294—

not? A. Not until this came up and I just know from evi­
dence of what she said what have been going on that she 
haven’t been telling the truth as far as I know.

The Court: All right.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Mrs. McDonald, there has been testimony here about 
a conference or a meeting in 1961 between certain of your 
fellow residents of the Harmony community and R. Jess



242

Brown and Constance McDonald in Jackson. Were yon 
present at that meeting? A. No.

Q. You were not present? A. I was not. My husband 
was.

Q. Your husband was present but you were not? A. 
That’s right.

Q. Were you present at a meeting in the Harmony 
community where Jess Brown was present? A. I was.

Q. Were you present at more than one? Just one. A. 
Uh I was present at one that we had at the church and then 
I was present at one at least one at Mrs. Louella Sanderses 
home.

Q. Now was Kuthie Nell McBeth at either of those meet­
ings? A. No.

— 295—

Q. Was Bertha Kirkland at either of them? A. She 
was.

Q. Well, now calling your attention to the meeting at 
Mrs. Louella Sanders did that occur before or after the 
meeting at the church? A. After.

Q. Bertha Kirkland was there? A. That’s right.
Q. Was there any conversation between Bertha Kirkland 

and Jess Brown on that occasion? A. Well, yas, it was.
| Q. Can you tell the court what that conversation was? 
A. IJh Mr. Brown went around to all the complainants and 
/asked them direct about was they willing to go through 
with the suit and everythang and uh Mrs. Kirkland wanted 

I to represent her daughter Kuthie Nell and Mr. Brown told 
them that she could not sign for the girl, the girl would 
have to sign for herself for the children because she was 
the mother of the children and she say well they stay in 
the house with her and he told her it didn’t matter that he 
would have to have the signature of the daughter Kuthie 
Nell.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



243

Q. Well, now was there a Mrs. Brookshire there that 
night? A. She was.

Q Was there any conversation between Mrs. Brookshire
—296—

and Mrs. Kirkland? A. Well, uh after the meeting it was.
Q. Can you tell us what that conversation was? A. Uh 

when Mr. Brown uh was going around asking those that 
was uh complainants there about sticking on you know 
keeping their name on the uh uh petition well uh Mrs. 
Brookshire told him she wanted to get off, she wanted her 
name removed, and so Mrs. Kirkland kind of talked about 
Mrs. Brookshire.

Q. What do you mean kind of talked about Mrs. Brook­
shire? What did she say? A. She told them that uh she 
hadn’t understood it just like he had explained it and she 
wanted her name removed, that what she told him Jess 
Brown.

Q. And what did Mrs. Kirkland say, if anything? A. 
She say that uh she figured she would do things like that 
but for us to advise her not to tell her about the meeting, 
we told her we wasn’t trying to keep anything secret about 
the meeting, let her tell anything, but Mr. Brown come in 
and told her that’s what he wanted to do if she didn’t un­
derstand didn’t want to go along with the suit said just tell 
him direct and he would be glad to remove her name.

Q. And Mrs. Kirkland was present at that time? A. 
She was.

Q. Now where does Mrs. Brookshire live? A. She lives 
on Mrs. Kirkland’s place.

—297—
Q. Is she a tenant of Mrs. Kirkland? A. That’s right.
Q. Ariel how long has she been a tenant of Mrs. Kirkland? 

A. Don’t know exactly.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



244

Q. Well, can you estimate for us! A. Aw at least four 
years.

Q..At least four years? A. Yas.
Q. Did Mrs. Kirkland and Mrs. Brookshire have a con­

versation in your presence about the matter of Mrs. Brook­
shire withdrawing from the suit after the meeting! A. 
Naw, just the bunch was talking around there you know, I 
didn’t hear, I didn’t hear her say anything to her.

Q. You didn’t hear Mrs. Kirkland say anything to Mrs. 
Brookshire? A. No.

Q. Well, was Mrs. Kirkland present when Mrs. Brook­
shire told Mr. Brown she wanted to withdraw her name? 
A. That was in the meeting.

Q. That was in the meeting? A. That’s right.
Q. Did Mrs. Kirkland make any comment about that in 

the meeting? A. She didn’t out in public you know.
Q. She didn’t make any statement in the meeting? A. 

No.
—298—

Q. When she was present? A. That’s right.
Q. Now Mrs. McDonald, do you know all of the persons 

who are plaintiffs in this lawsuit? A. I do.
Q. Has any of them made any statement to you object­

ing to their being listed as parties plaintiff in this lawsuit? 
A. No.

Q. They have not? A. They have not.
Q. By the way are you a member of the Leake County 

branch of the NAACP? A. I am.
Q. Do you now hold any office in that branch? A. I do. 
Q. And what office do you hold? A. I am secretary.
Q. And how long have you been secretary of the branch? 

A. 1961.
Q. When it was founded? A. That’s right.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Direct



245

Q. You have been secretary continuously ever since? A. 
That’s right.

-—299—
Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.
(Court recessed at 10:40 A.M. for 15 minutes.)

Cross Examination by Judge Pyle:

Q. Behonor, you were the person who accompanied Win- 
son Hudson in going around and getting the people in your 
community to sign these documents entitled retainers were 
you not? A. That’s right.

Q. And that you got more than 50 of them signed alto­
gether, is that right? A. I thank it was a few over 50, I 
am not positive but I thank it was a few over 50.

Q. You know why it was that only 13 people's names 
were used in filing the bill of complaint if Mr. Brown had 
been retained by more than 50 people to represent them in 
this suit? A. I'll a large portion of them were sharecrop­
pers on the white people’s place and under pressure they 
had to move their names to keep their homes, they was liv- 
ing on white people’s places.

Q. Now who were some of these people? A. That was j 
just largest portion of those that taken their name off’n : 
there those that didn’t uh wasn’t on the place why they was j 
working for them. j

Q. But the Brookshire woman didn’t live on a white'
-  5 ( H ) ..........

person's place did she? A. No, but she was working for; 
one, doing day work for one.

Q. You had not children of school age and consequently 
you are not a party to the lawsuit are you? A. Wal, it’s 
in my community, I live in the community all my life.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent— Cross



246

Q. Well, why were you so interested in the school if you 
had no schoolchildren? A. They are relative of mine. 
They have helped me when my children was in high school 
portion of them or their parents and I just and likes to 
work with children and I feel that I am obligated to help 
in the way of benefit of my community.

Q. The way you got started in this movement was that 
you had had a school at Harmony for a long time? A. 
That’s right.

Q. And it was the center of activity for the colored 
people in that part of the county wasn’t it? A. That’s 
right.

Q. And when the school, the Harmony School was con­
solidated with the school at Walnut Grove you people felt 
that you had lost your one place in your community where 
you could meet and have functions other than school ac­
tivities didn’t you? A. Well, that’s right.

Q. And that you wanted very badly to get this Harmony
- 301 -

School back and that’s what you started out to do wasn’t 
it? A. That’s right.

Q. And at the very time that you and Winson Hudson 
went around and got these retainers signed even you were 
telling the people that what you were trying to do was 
bring enough pressure to bear on the white people in Leake 
County to get the Harmony School back didn’t you? A. 
Naw sir.

Q. What did you and Winson Hudson tell Ruthie Nell 
McBeth that Jess Brown was going to do for her when you 
asked her to sign this document called retainer which is in 
evidence as Respondent’s Exhibit 1, this thing right here? 
A. Uh.

Q. What did you tell her Jess Brown was going to do for 
her? A. We didn’t tell her anything. We told her to read

Behonor McDonald—for B,espondent-—Cross



247

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Cross

the retainer and that was to give him privilege of being 
her lawyer to file suit for integration of the public schools 
of Harmony and Leake County.

Q. What did you tell about who was going to pay Jess 
Brown as an attorney to represent her in filing a lawsuit? 
A. That wasn’t discussed at all.

Q. What were you told by your president of your 
A A A CP chapter as to who was going to foot the bill for 
the lawsuit for the integration of the schools? A. It

-—302—
wasn’t discussed.

Q. At no time are you telling the court was there any 
discussion about what it was to cost the people of your
community in Leake County to press a lawsuit for in 
tegration of the Leake County Schools? A. That’s right.

Q. It was never mentioned? A. That’s right.
Q. Don’t you know that Constance Baker Motley and 

Medger Evers told you plainly that there would be no 
expense to you people, that the NAACP would bear all 
expense if you would integrate rather than to try to get 
your school back? A. I wasn’t with Constant Motley and I 
haven’t ever met her.

Q. You haven’t seen her at all? A. No. My husband 
was with her but I wasn’t.

Q. Wasn’t that your understanding that they were going 
to bear all expense and that you wouldn’t have to pay any­
thing? A. Wal, that’s wasn’t discussed and I didn’t think 
wasn’t thinking anything about it.

Q. That is if you would permit them to file a suit for 
integration rather than institute proceedings to try to get 
the school back? A. We had give up the.school.. We had
been notified that we wouldn’t get it back at all.Whenever

—303—
we carried this around we wasn’t thanking of...getting. Jhp



248

school back at all, that was understood, the school was 
gone.

Q. Now you tell us that you were present at a meeting 
at Louella Sanders’ house when E. Jess Brown and Medger 
Evers were there sometime prior to the time that the suit 
was filed when there was a discussion about who actually 
wanted to be a party to the lawsuit. You remember talking 
about that a minute ago? A. Eight.

Q. What did Jess Brown tell you people there that night 
that he wanted from you before he filed the lawsuit? A. 
Talking about to sign the retainer, is that what you are 
speaking about? .

Q. Didn’t he tell you that he wanted each one of you to 
write a letter to him to his office in Jackson, Mississippi? 
A. He did.

Q. And he gave you his address? A. That’s right.
Q. And what he said was he didn’t know exactly who 

wanted to be in and who didn’t want to be in and that he 
wanted you people each one of you to write a letter to his 
desk in Jackson, Mississippi advising him definitely that 
you wanted to be a party to the lawsuit? A. No, he didn’t 
say it like that.

—304—
Q. Well, what did he say? A. He said uh he wanted 

each individual there to write a letter if you wanted your 
name to remain on there or if you want it taken off write a 
letter either way.

Q. All right now this meeting when Jess Brown said 
those words was a long time after this retainer had been 
signed Eespondent’s Exhibit Number 1 wasn’t it? A. It 
wasn’t too long after then.

Q. Well, this was signed in 1961 according to the date 
on it December the 20th? A. That’s right.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent■—Cross



249

Q. That is this retainer by Ruthie Nell McBeth. All 
right now when was this meeting at Louella Sanders’ house 
when he told you people to write him this letter that you 
have just told us about! A. I can’t tell exact date, I don’t 
know the exact date but it wasn’t too long after the re­
tainer. The letter was just to strengthen he say the re­
tainer, he had all the retainers in his hand but if you 
wanted a name, if they wanted they names removed to write 
him and if they wanted to stay on there to write him.

Q. He wanted a confirmation— A. (Interrupting) 
Either way.

Q. (Continuing) Very definitely— A. (Interrupting) 
That’s right.

Q. (Continuing) whether they wanted to be on or off?
—305—

A. Off. That’s right.
Q. In so far as the use of their names in the filing of 

the integration suit? A. That’s right.
Q. Which one was it you or Winson Hudson wdio then 

sat down and undertook that night or the next morning to 
prepare a form letter which each one of the people was to 
write to Jess Brown pursuant to his request that night at 
Louella Sanders’ confirming whether or not they wanted 
to be a party to the lawsuit ? A. Neither one of us.

Q. Didn’t you sit down the next morning and write a 
letter? A.. No, we didn’t.

Q. All right you did go through to see Ruthie Nell Mc­
Beth the next morning didn’t you? A. It wasn’t the next 
morning.

Q. When did you go? A. Sometime after then, I don’t 
know exact.

Q. All right now who went with you? A. Do vie Hudson.
Q. All right now did you find Ruthie Nell McBeth on 

that visit? A. I did.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent— Gross



250

Q. And what did you tell her that time? A. I told her
—306—

that we was getting the letters together to send to Mr. 
Brown and uli she said that she decided not to go on by any 
farther.

Q. You explained to Ruthie Nell McBeth not the next 
day but within two or three days after the meeting at Lou- 
ella Sanders’ when R. Jess Brown had told you and the 
other people there that before he filed the suit that he 
wanted to know definitely which one wanted to be in the suit 
and which one did not and she told you as you approached 
her Ruthie Nell McBeth and asked for the letter that she 
did not want to go ahead and that she was not going to sign 
a letter didn’t she? A. She said she told me that uh she 
would write him herself and I say that’s she said she would 
write Jess Brown herself and tell him to remove her name.

Q. And you and Winston Hudson were both there pres­
ent and— A. (Interrupting) Dovie Hudson.

Q. (Continuing) I mean Dovie Hudson. Was it Dovie 
Hudson? A. That’s right.

Q. And you understood very definitely at that time from 
Ruthie Nell McBeth that she was not going to permit her 
name to be used in the suit didn’t you? A. She say she 
wouldn’t go any farther. That’s what she said.

—307—
Q. And you knew at that time that this second petition 

had been circulated in the community and I show it to you, 
the same being Respondent’s Exhibit Number 7, and that 
Ruthie Nell McBeth had not signed this second petition 
didn’t you? A. I didn’t know anything about this, that’s 
right.

Q. And this petition had, made its round, this second pe­
tition, Respondent’s Exhibit Number 7, prior to the time

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent■—Cross



251

that you went and talked with Buthie Nell MeBeth pursuant 
to Brown’s request to get the letter which she said she 
would not write because she was not going to be a party to 
the lawsuit? A. The letter that she would not write was 
the one she was going to write and tell him herself to re­
move her name.

Q. And that was after this second petition that I have 
just shown you had been circulated wasn't it? A. I don’t 
know definite about that, I don’t know the date on the peti­
tion.

Q. Now you told the Court a minute ago that Buthie 
Nell MeBeth haven’t been telling the truth about this mat­
ter. Wherein has Buthie Nell MeBeth not told this Court 
the truth? A. Uh about the retainer if she say she didn’t 
understand it, she had a privilege to understand it cause 
she read it and we never did in all our telling we never did 
tell them we was trying to get the school back after we 
started carrying those uh retainers around that they was 
for integration and which they stated.

— 308—
Q. What you are saying is that if she says that you and 

Dovie Hudson didn’t represent to her that what you were 
trying to do wras to pressure the vdiite people into giving 
your school back that that wasn’t the truth because you 
didn’t tell her that? A. That’s right.

Q. But that was the whole plan of the people in the com­
munity after the Harmony School was consolidated that is 
to get the school back, that’s what you started out to do 
wasn’t it? A. That’s right when we first started.

Q. And you worked on it a long time didn’t you? A. 
Wal, quite a while.

Q. Were you on the committee that was in negotia­
tion with the Leake County School Board concerning this

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Cross



252

school problem? A. My husband was there. I wasn’t 
there.

Q. But you do know as a result of your husband being 
on the committee that there were many meetings and a 
great deal of effort was made concerning the getting the 
Harmony School back? A. That’s right.

Q. And that it was the talk among you people in the 
community the colored people that what we want is to get 
our school back at Harmony so we will have a place to for 
a community center as well as to educate our children? A. 
When we first started but after we started carrying those

—3 0 9 -
retainers and petitions around that was for integration 
we all understood.

Q. And this came about after Medger Evers had come 
into the picture and after Jess Brown had come into the 
picture and after Constance Baker Motley had come into 
the picture and after you had organized your NAACP 
chapter in Leake County, that is the matter of circulating 
your retainers, circulating this second petition and au­
thorizing the proceeding with the filing of the lawsuit for 
integration. You had not thought about filing a suit to in­
tegrate until the NAACP leaders came into the community 
and organized the chapter there had you? A. We had, it 
had been discussed.

Q. But it was never discussed with the Leake County 
School Board to your knowledge was it? A. Not that I 
knows of. I hadn’t ever meet with them.

Q. How long have you been living in that community, 
Behonor? A. All my life.

Q. How many times have you been married? A. Once.
Q. How long have you been married A. About 38 years.
Q. Do you know Joe Hudson? A. I do.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent■—Cross



253

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Cross

—310—
Q. What’s his relation to you! A. Cousin.
Q. Is Joe married! A. He is.
Q. How often do you see him! A. Wal, on a average 

bout like I do anybody else in the community.
Q. How long have your children been out of school! A. 

Uh I think I imagine bout seven years.
Q. Who approached you to work on this project of get­

ting the Harmony School back! A. Of getting it back?
Q. Yes. A. Didn’t anyone.
Q. No one approached you about trying to get the school 

back! A. No uh I was member of the PTA.
Q. Even though you had no children in school you were 

a member of the PTA? A. Sure.
Q.. And who was president at the time the school was 

closed? A. If I ’m not mistaken Clara Dodson was presi­
dent of the PTA.

Q. And it’s true your work with the PTA that you were 
working to try to get the school back initially? A. That’s

—3 1 1 -
right.

Q. But it was through your efforts as secretary of the 
NAACP chapter that you were trying to get these people 
to authorize R. Jess Brown to bring a lawsuit to integrate 
the schools? A. I didn’t understand your question.

Q. I say your interest in trying to get people to sign 
these retainers to employ R. Jess Brown and other counsel 
to bring a lawsuit to integrate the school was due to the 
fact that you were a member of and had been made secre­
tary of the NAACP chapter of Leake County, is that right? 
A. I guess you would say that.

Q. And as I understand it Jess Brown and Medger Evers 
both made it emphatically clear to you people in that com­



254

munity that they would not be willing to assist in trying 
to get the Harmony School back but that they would lend 
the strength of the organization that they represented, the 
NAACP, to try to integrate the schools if you people were 
willing to take that course! A. They explained to us, I 
didn’t get your question, let me hear it again please.

Q. The question is that is it not a fact that R. Jess Brown 
and Medger Evers made it entirely clear to you people in 
the community that they were not interested in trying to 
help you get your colored school, the Harmony School, back

—312—
but that they would pick up the ball and file an integration 
suit if you people would lend your names to it? A. Uh 
Medger uh Mr. Brown didn’t come on the scene with Mr. 
Evers. We invited Mr. Evers out and then Mr. Brown 
came on later but at the time Medger came in the community 
several time before Mr. Brown.

Q. Now who invited Mr. R. Jess Brown out there? A. 
We did.

Q. Who did, you remember? A. We members of the— 
Q. How did you go about it? A. Well, we went through 

by Medger Evers.
Q. And what did you tell Medger Evers to do in connec­

tion with—

Attorney Ming: (Interrupting) I am sorry, I 
can’t hear you.

By Judge Pyle :

Q. I say what did you do and how did you go about
getting the message across to Medger Evers as to what as 
to when R. Jess Brown was to come into the picture? A.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent■—Cross



255

Wal, after ah the uh had the community meeting and and 
decided to file suit for integration we had to have a lawyer 
and we just asked for him.

Q. Did you know R. Jess Brown at that time? A. I 
knowed of him several years ago but I hadn’t met him in

—3 1 3 -
person.

Q. Did anybody else in your group know him personally? 
A. Not personally. I mean I don’t know whether anyone 
else knew him or not.

Q. Who recommended him to you? A. Medger Evers.
Q. And what did Medger Evers say that R. Jess Brown 

could do for you people? A. He didn’t never say just what 
he could do except that he worked with us.

Q. As an attorney? A. That’s right.
Q. What did Medger Evers say as to whether or not he 

planned to associate anybody else with R. Jess Brown in 
the handling of the integration suit? A. That wasn’t dis­
cussed in our meeting. We just turned it over to him let 
him do for him to do what he wanted to about it.

Q. In other wmrds you people were just giving your 
approval and some of the people the thirteen or twelve of 
the thirteen you think whose names appear on the com­
plaint in the court lent their names for the filing of the 
suit and you have let them, that is Medger Evers and R. 
Jess Brown and the lawyers whose names appear to the 
complaint do the rest of it? A. That’s right.

— 314—
Q. They have never, they never came back to you or any­

body in that community that you know about and verified 
the information that they had put in the complaint which 
they filed in the court did they? A. I think, I am not 
positive, I think Medger had been back since then.

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent-—Cross



256

Q. But you don’t know that he had this complaint with 
him and went over it with these people whose names were 
used do you? A. I ’m not positive about that.

Q. Did you know anything about the shooting that oc­
curred in that part of the county, that is Leake County, in 
the Fall of 1962! A. I saw the homes uh some of them.

Q. You did. Do you know a Mr. Charlie Hannah who 
lives in that community! A. I don’t know him.

Q. You know of him! A. I know of him.
Q. He’s a white person isn’t he! A. That’s right.
Q. You know Mrs. Majure Hardage, M-a-j-u-r-e 

H-a-r-d-a-g-e! A. I do.
Q. That’s a white person! A. White lady.

—315—
Q. You know that their homes were fired into at the same 

time that the colored homes were supposed to have been 
fired into! A. I heard.

Q. And you have no idea who did the shooting or why do 
you! A. I don’t.

Judge Pyle: We have no more questions.

Redirect Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Mrs. McDonald, prior to March 7th, 1963 did you 
ever tell E. Jess Brown about your conversation with 
Euthie Nell McBeth concerning the letter! A. No, I don’t 
think I did.

Q. Did you write E. Jess Brown about that conversa­
tion! A. I did not.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Bertha Kirkland 
concerning that letter! A. No, I didn’t.

Q. Now when you testified both on direct and cross con­
cerning the meeting at uh Mrs. Louella Sanders’ where

Behonor McDonald—for Respondent—Redirect



257

Bertha Kirkland was present I show yon Respondent’s Ex­
hibit 7 for identification and ask you if that petition was

—316—
circulated that night! A. No, it wasn’t.

Q. It was not! A. No.
Q. Now when you testified that Bertha Kirkland sug­

gested to R. Jess Brown that she would sign for her daugh­
ter what was Mrs. Kirkland referring to if you know! A. 
Uh whenever he was uh asking them that night how many 
was they willing to go on you see the complainants that 
was there well she wanted to just sign up then for her girl 
for her daughter for the children.

Q. To be a complainant in this lawsuit. A. That’s right.

Attorney Ming: I have no further question, Your 
Honor.

The Court: All right.

Recross Examination by Judge Pyle:

Q. How long have you known Ruthie Nell McBeth! A. 
All her life.

Q. You know that she is over 21 years of age don’t you! 
A. Yes.

Q. And you know that she is a person of sound mind! 
A. That’s right. I guess.

Q. Well, she has never been in any institution has she!
—317—

A. Not as I knows of.

Judge Pyle: That’s all.
(Witness excused.)
Attorney Ming: Call Mr. Willie Earl Lewis.

Behonor McDonald?—for Respondent—Recross



258

W illie  E akl L ew is  called as a witness for and on behalf 
of Respondent,.was sworn and testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Will you state your name? A. Willie Earl Lewis.
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Lewis? A. Carthage. Car­

thage, Miss, Route 1, Box—witness mumbling and unable to 
understand—

Q. Now if you keep your voice up so the Judge and these 
gentlemen here and the reporter can all hear you we will 
appreciate it. A. Yes sir.

Q. Are you one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit? A. Yes 
sir.

Q. Do you know Ruthie Nell McBeth? A. I do.
Q. How long have you known her? A. I don’t know sir 

exactly how long, a long time.
—318—

Q. Well, can you give us an estimate of how long you 
have known her? A. I will say something bout like bout 
ten or twelve years.

Q. Ten or twelve years? A. Yes sir.
Q. How often do you see her? A. Oh I see her every 

week, once every week.
Q. Now I show you one of the pages of Respondent’s 

Exhibit 3 in evidence and ask you if that is your signature ? 
A. Yes sir.

Q. You know when you put your signature on that docu­
ment? When did you sign it? A. I don’t know exactly 
the time I signed it.

Q. Well, I call your attention to the fact that it’s dated 
January 2nd, 1962 and ask you if you signed it on or about 
that date? A. I don’t know.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Direct



259

Q. You don’t know exactly when yon signed it? A. I 
don’t know exactly when.

Q. Now did you sign it before this lawsuit was brought? 
A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you attend any meetings in your community in 
which the matter of integrating the schools of Leake County

—319—
was discussed? A. Yes.

Q. How many meetings did you attend? A. Well, I 
don’t know, a good many.

Q. A good many? A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us what you mean by a good many? 

Was that six or eight or ten? A. Well, I didn’t attend quite 
that many.

Q. Fewer than six? A. Lesser than six.
Q. Did you ever attend any meetings at which Ruthie 

Nell McBeth attended? A. Yes sir.
Q. At which the integration of the Leake County Schools 

was discussed? A. Yes sir.
Q. How many such meetings did you attend? A. I at­

tended a couple with her.
Q. Can you tell us when that was? A. No sir, I don’t 

know just exactly when it was.
Q. Well, was it after you signed the retainer that I just 

showed you? A. Yes sir.
Q. Was it before the lawsuit was filed? A. It was after 

it was signed, it was before it was signed whenever wre
—320—

attended the meetings.
Q. Yes, it was before the retainer was signed. How many 

people were at these meetings if you remember, Mr. Lewds? 
A. I don’t know for sure how many people was there.

Q. Now do you remember where those meetings were 
held? A. Yes sir.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Direct



260

Q. Where were they held? A. One nh we met at nh was 
at the nh church.

Q. What church? A. Uh Galilee.
Q. Galilee Baptist Church in Harmony? A. Yes sir.
Q. And where was the other one ? A. At uh Miss Louella 

Dodson.
Q. At Miss Louella Dodson’s house and Ruthie Nell 

was at both of those meetings? A. Yes sir, those two she 
was.

Q. Was there a discussion of the efforts to obtain the 
integration of the Leake County Schools at those meet­
ings? A. Yes sir.

Judge Pyle: If the Court please, we have per­
mitted counsel just to lead right along but we sub­
mit that the witness is on direct examination and he 
should be permitted to tell what took place without 
saying yes or no.

—321—
The Court: Yes, don’t lead him.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now, Mr. Lewis, what was the discussion concerning 
the Leake County Schools at the meetings at which Ruthie 
Nell was present? A. I don’t know for sure, it was all— 
witness mumbling and unable to understand—well most 
all the meetings we had there was concern that.

Q. I am sorry, I couldn’t understand you. A. —witness 
mumbling and garbling words and unable to understand— 
I don’t know for sure cause I didn’t keep up but I do know 
uh it was concerning of the school integration.

Q. Did she attend any meetings after the retainer was 
signed when you were present? A. She uh never uh at-

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Direct



261

tended but just the one Mr. Brown was at, not she didn’t 
attended, he mother attended it. ^

Q. Her mother attended it! A. Yes sir. I don t I dont 
I don’t know, I don’t think she attended none after that 
that I know anything about.

Q. Now did you ever have any conversation with Ruthie 
Neil McBeth concerning this lawsuit after the retainer was 
signed? A. No sir.

O You never talked to her about it? A. No sir.
—322—

q . Well, now were you present at a meeting at which 
her mother was present and at which Jess Brown was 
present ? A. I was.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Ruthie Nell 
McBeth concerning this matter after that meeting? A. 
Well, yes sir, I did.

Q. And where was this and who was present? A. Well, 
nobody but just me and her you know.

Q. Nobody but just you and Ruthie Nell and where was 
this? A. Was there in up their cafe.

Q. In the cafe where she works? A. Yes sir.
Q. And tell the court what that conversation was? A. 

Well, she just you know they had been around trying to 
get those names off of the list and uh she told me that they 
didn’t know who she was and she was proud that they 
didn’t.

Q. Who, who had been around trying to get names off the 
list? A. Mr. Roy McPhail and Mr. Jim Thorn.

Q. What were those names? A. Mr. Roy McPhail.
O Mr Roy McPhail? A. And Mr. Jim Thorn.

—323—
q And Mr. -Tim Thorn. Now are those residents of 

v. Carthage, Mississippi? A. Yes sir.

. Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent-—Direct



262

Q. Are they residents of the Harmony community1? A. 
One of them.

Q. Are they white or colored! A. "White.
Q. Can you tell us what their "business or occupations 

is? A. Well, uh Mr. Boy you know is on a farm you know 
at the time he was running a milk dairy.

Q. Did what? A. At the time he was running a milk 
dairy.

Q. He ran a milk dairy but he is a farmer. Is that right? 
A. That’s right.

Q. And what about the other gentleman? A. He’s uh 
game warden.

Q. He’s a game warden. Now when was this that you 
had this conversation with Buthie Nell McBeth? A. I 
don’t know exactly when it was.

Q. Was it after the lawsuit was filed? Yes or no. The 
Beporter can’t put down your head shake. A. Naw sir.

Q. It was not. A. No sir.
—324—

Q. It was before the lawsuit was filed. Was it after the 
retainer was signed? Well, now I show you—

The Court: What was his answer to that?
Attorney Ming: Yes sir.

By the Court:

Q. You know when the retainer was signed? A. No sir, 
Your Honor.

Q. Well, how do you know whether it was before or after 
then? A. Well, I just know it was signed before uh I had 
the talk with her.

Q. Yet you don’t know the date the retainer was signed 
on? A. I don’t.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Direct



263

Q. Well, the retainer I believe was signed on December 
the 21st, 20th or 21st—

Attorney Ming: Excuse me. The one which he 
identified, Your Honor, is dated January 2nd, 1962. 

The Court: The retainer!
Attorney Ming: The one which he signed. The

—325—
one which Buthie Nell signed is dated December 20, 
1961.

The Court: That’s the one I was asking about. 
All right, go ahead.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Now I show you Eespondent’s Exhibit 9 and call your 
attention to the last line on page 3 and ask you if that is 
your signature! You did not sign that! Did you authorize 
anybody to sign it on your behalf? A. My wife.

Q. Your wife. Are you familiar with your wife’s hand­
writing? A. Well, not for sure, you know what I mean 
I hardly be around, I be working most of the time.

Q. By the way where do you work, Mr. Lewis? A. 
Storkline.

Q. In Jackson, Mississippi? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you worked there? A. Five years.
Q. And what do you do there? A. I detail on uh filler 

line.

By the Court:

Q. On what? A. Filler line, detail on filler line.
—326—

Q. Filler line? A. Yes sir.
Q. You said you worked at Star Glass? A. Starkline.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Direct



264

Judge Pyle: Storkline.
The Court: Oh, Storkline.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. I show you Respondent’s Exhibit 7 for identification 
and ask you if your signature appears on there? Turn the 
page when you have finished with the first page. Does 
your signature appear on that? Answer yes or no, Mr. 
Lewis? A. No sir.

Q. Now did you authorize Jess Brown to bring this law­
suit to integrate the schools of Leake County on your be­
half? A. I did.

Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.

Cross Examination by Judge Pyle-.

Q. When did you authorize Jess Brown to bring the 
lawsuit? A. Well, now I don’t know exact date that that 
was done.

—3 2 7 -
Attorney Ming: Keep your voice up please.

A. I don’t know the exact date that that was done.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. Where were you when you did it? A. Uh at home. 
Q. And who was present? A. My wife. My wife I had 

her to do it. My wife I had her to do it.
Q. Well, I thought you just told the court that you did? 

A. I gave her I gave her orders to do it.
Q. Did you ever talk to R. Jess Brown yourself about 

the lawsuit and about him representing you? A. Yes sir.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Cross



265

Q, Where? A. Miss Louella Dodson.
Q. Do yon know Louella Sanders? A. Well, that's that’s 

who I mean, I call her Dodson all time you know, that’s 
who it is I call her Dodson.

Q. How far did you go in school? A. The sixth grade.
Q. Can you read and write? A. A little.
Q. Did you sign one of these retainers yourself you say ? 

A. I did.
—328—

Q. Who brought it to you for your signature? A. Who 
was it brung that? I done forgot now but I know my sig­
nature when I see it.

Q. I show you here document entitled retainer and it’s 
got Willie Earl Lewis on it. Did you sign that? A. No.

Q. You didn’t did you? A. Naw sir.
Q. You never signed anything? A. Yes sir.
Q. Telling Jess Brown to proceed with filing the law­

suit for you did you? A. Yes sir, I told him to file this 
lawsuit for me.

Q. But you didn’t hear Ruthie Nell McBeth tell him to 
file a lawsuit for her did you? You did not hear Ruthie 
Nell McBeth tell R. Jess Brown to file a lawsuit on her 
behalf did you? A. I didn’t say I heard her say that.

Q. Well, that’s what I asked you and you do not know 
personally anything about the relationship of R. Jess 
Brown with Ruthie Nell McBeth and her children in so 
far as him being employed to file a suit do you? A. How 
was that now?

Q. I say you don’t know anything about Jess Brown 
talking to Ruthie Nell McBeth or her children about filing

—329—
a lawsuit on their behalf do you? You weren’t ever pres­
ent— A. (Interrupting) I wasn’t present when it was 
discussed, no suh.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent'—Cross



266

Q. You weren’t present whenever Ruthie Nell McBeth 
signed any document authorizing R. Jess Brown to file a 
suit for her either were you? A. I wasn’t present.

Q. And you know as a resident of that community that 
what you people were undertaking to do after the Har­
mony School was consolidated with the school at Walnut 
Grove was to try to get the Leake County School Board to 
give your school back at Harmony? Wasn’t that what 
you were trying to do? A. Naw suh.

Q. From the very beginning what were you trying to 
do? A. Well, after, after we tried to get the school back 
and couldn’t git it why we forgot about the school. We 
went for integration.

Q. You went for integration? A. Right.
Q. And that was after Medger Evers had come up and 

organized a NAACP chapter? A. Beg your pardon.
Q. You went for the integration of the schools after 

Medger Evers had come up to Leake County and organized 
an NAACP chapter. Isn’t that right? No effort was made

— 330—

to in the discussions with the School Board to get the 
schools integrated before you had the NAACP chapter 
was it? A. Really you know what I mean I don’t know 
about, yes, it had.

Q. Were you ever present with any group talking with 
the School Board about integrating the schools of Leake 
County? A. Naw suh, I wasn’t present with them but I had 
been in some meetings.

Q. You were not on the committee that was to meet 
with the Leake County School Board to try to get the Har­
mony School back, is that right? A. I wasn’t on the com­
mittee, no sir.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Cross



267

Q. But in the outset you do know that the people who 
were circulating the petitions the people who were cir­
culating these retainers were telling you people that the 
purpose was to put enough pressure on the School Board 
to get your school back at Walnut Grove don’t you? A. 
How was that now?

Q. That the purpose of circulating these petitions and 
getting you people to sign them and the purpose of get­
ting the retainers signed was to try to put enough pres­
sure on the Leake County School Board to get them to give 
vou the school back at Walnut Grove, I mean at Harmony?

— 331—

A. Naw suh.
Q. They weren’t telling you people that? A. Naw sir.
Q. Are you a member of that NAACP chapter up there? 

A. I am.
Q. And your wife is a. member of the NAACP chapter? 

A. No sir.
Q. How long have you known B,. Jess Brown? A. Well, 

uh when I met him was uh I met him at uh the meetings 
is the onlyest time I had ever met him befo, onlyest time 
I had ever seen him befo.

Q. In the meetings pertaining to the integration of the 
Leake County Schools? A. That’s right.

Q. You have never employed him to represent you as a 
lawyer in anything else have you? A. That’s the onlyest 
time. I want to git that, make it plain where I can under­
stand.

Q. Just as plain as I know how did you ever employ 
R. Jess Brown to represent you as a lawyer in any other 
matter than this school integration suit? A. In any other 
matter?

Q. Yes. A. Than the school?

Willie Earl Lewis-—for Respondent—Gross



268

Q. That’s right? A. You mean just like he never hadn’t 
done anything for me befo more than just the school?

—332—
Q. Eight. A. The school is all.
Q. The school is all. Who is your lawyer normally? A. 

Suh?
Q. Who represents you? Who is your lawyer up there? 

A. Well, I haven’t been in anything, haven’t been in any­
thing to have a lawyer to represent me in anything.

Q. How long you been living in Leake County you say? 
A. All my life.

Q. What’s your father’s name? A. John Lewis.
Q. When did you start working out here at Storkline? A. 

Start working the first day of August in ’58.
Q. And have you worked continuously since then? A. 

Ever since.
Q. How many children did you say you have? A. Four. 
Q. How many of them are of school age? A. Three.
Q. What would you know about the shooting that took 

place in October, 1962? A. I don’t know anything about 
that.

Q. Nobody shot into your home? A. Naw sir.
Q. Even though you and your wife had signed petitions?

—333—
A. Eight.

Q. And things like that? A. At least my wife hadn’t 
but I had.

Q. You do know that the same time that the that there 
was some shooting into colored homes in that neighbor­
hood some white homes were shot into at the same time 
don’t you? A. Well, I heard about it.

Judge Pyle: We have nothing further.

Willie Earl Lewis—for Respondent—Cross



269

Attorney Ming: I have nothing further of this 
witness.

(Witness excused.)
Attorney Ming: Mrs. Alice Greer.
I wonder if I might make my motion with respect 

to the admission of exhibits while the witness is on 
the way.

The Court: Yes. How many witnesses do you 
have?

Attorney Ming: I have only one.
The Court: One more after this one?
Attorney Ming: No, this one, I was simply trying 

to expedite.
—334 -

The Court: All right. You may make it now.
Attorney Ming: Well, she is here now, Your 

Honor.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Direct

A lice G reer called  as a w itness fo r  and on beh a lf o f 
R espon dent, w as sw orn  and testified  as fo llo w s :

Direct Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Will you tell us your name and address if you please? 
A. Alice Greer, Route 3, Carthage.

Q. Are you married or single? A. Married.
Q. You have any children? A. Yes suh.
Q. How many? A. Three.
Q. You have any children of school age? A. Yes.
Q. How many? A. Three.
Q. Now are you one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit? I)o 

you know Bertha Kirkland? Do you know Ruthie Nell 
McBeth?



270

(Witness did not answer above questions in such 
manner as would enable the court reporter to bear 
her and record same.)

Q. How long have you known Ruthie Nell MeBethf A.
- 3 3 5 -

Well, most all ever since she was born.
Q. Do you know Bertha Kirkland? How long have you 

known her? A. Uh I have known Bertha bout 25 year.
Q. You live in the Harmony community? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. All my life.
Q. Are you any kin to Bertha Kirkland? A. —witness 

mumbling and unable to understand—.
Q. I ’m sorry. A. Just by marriage.
Q. Just by marriage. Now what do you mean by that? 

A. She married—witness mumbling and unable to under­
stand—.

Q. You will have to speak up. A. She married a first 
cousin of mine.

Q. Mrs. Kirkland married a first cousin of yours? A. 
Yes.

Q. Is that Sam Kirkland? A. Yes.
Q!. N ow  do you know R . Jess Brown? A. Yes.
Q. When did you first meet him? A. Ah up at the 

church, Galilee Missionary Baptist Church.
—336—

Q. And can you tell us about when that was? A. I don’t 
know just when.

Q. I will show you one of the pages of Respondent’s 
Exhibit 3 and ask if that bears your signature? A. Yes, 
that’s my signature.

Q. Can you tell us when you signed that? A. Well, I 
don’t know just what date.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Direct



271

Q. I call your attention to the fact that its dated Decem­
ber 7th, 1961 and ask you if that refreshes your recollec­
tion as to when you signed it! Did you sign it on or about 
that date?

Attorney Ming: She said yes, I am sorry. You 
will have to keep your voice up, Mrs. Greer so the 
Reporter can hear you.

The Court: You are not talking to counsel, you are 
talking to me. How in the world can you expect 
me to understand you just mumbling to counsel. 
You want to speak out loud enough that I can hear 
what you say. If you don’t get your message over 
to me you might as well not be saying anything.

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Who was present when you signed this retainer, Mrs. 
Greer? A. Ah it was a bunch present. I signed it at a 
meeting.

Q. Well, now when you say a bunch about how many
—337-

people do you include? A. Well, about fifteen or twenty.
Q, Can you tell us the names of any of them? A. Ah 

Winson Hudson, Dovie Hudson,—witness mumbling—
Q. Now keep your voice up. The Reporter and the Judge 

can’t hear you. A. Winson Hudson, Dovie Hudson, Behonor 
McDonald, Murrie McDonald and it was a bunch of them 
I can’t remember all the names.

Q. You can’t remember any other names? A. I can’t 
remember all the names.

Q. Was Ruthie Nell McBeth there? A. I don’t know 
whether she was there or not.

Q. Was Bertha Kirkland there? A. I don’t know.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Direct



272

Q. Was Jess Brown there? A. No.
Q. He was not there. Now were you ever at a meeting 

where Ruthie Nell McBeth was and there was a discussion 
of integrating the schools of Leake County? A. Ruthie 
Nell was at one meeting. I don’t know what was discussed 
that night. I do remember her being at one meeting.

Q. Can you tell us where that meeting was? A. Louella 
Sanders.

—338—
Q. Was Jess Brown there? A. No.
Q. Now did you ever have any conversation with Ruthie 

Nell McBeth about the matter o f ! integrating schools in 
Leake County? A. No.

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with her mother 
about the matter? Was it before or after this lawsuit was 
filed? A. It was after.

Q. How long after? A. And befo too.
Q. Before also? Well, let’s take the conversation before 

the lawsuit was filed. Where was that and who was pres­
ent? A. It was at uh meeting at Louella Sanders and the 
church one Sunday.

Q. And at church one Sunday and what did Bertha Kirk­
land—strike that—who was present? A. Wasn’t anyone 
present.

Q. Just the two of you? A. Just the two of us.
Q. What did Bertha Kirkland say to you and what did 

you say to her about this matter of integrating the schools 
of Leake County? A. Well, we was just talking about had

—339—
filed suit to integrate the schools she say she was going 
through with it.

Q. How long was this after the lawsuit was filed? A. I 
don’t remember how long.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Direct



273

Q. Well, was it a month afterwards, a week afterwards! 
A. A week or so.

Q. A week or so afterwards and where was this con­
versation? A. At the church.

Q. And what’s the name of the church? A. Galilee Mis­
sionary Baptist Church.

Q. Are you a member of that church? A. Yes.
Q. And is Mrs. Kirkland also a member of the church! 

Now you said you had a conversation with Mrs. Kirkland 
prior to the filing of the lawsuit with respect to this matter. 
Where was that conversation? A. Well, I don’t remem­
ber just where it was but ever time we meet we would talk 
about it the lawsuit.

Q. Well, that’s all right, go ahead, I didn’t mean to in­
terrupt you. A. She would ask how was we coming on 
with the suit and have we heard when it was going to go 
through.

Q. I am sorry. You will have to keep your voice up. We 
can’t hear you, Mrs. Greer. Now what did she say? A. 
She was just ever time we would meet we would talk bout 
the lawsuit she would ask me what had I heard about it was

—340—
it going through.

Q. Well, now did you ever talk to her about in a con­
versation in which she stated that her daughter had not 
authorized a suit brought on her behalf to integrate the 
schools of Leake County? Did Mrs. Kirkland ever tell you 
that Ruthie Nell hadn’t authorized her being named as a 
plaintiff in a lawsuit? A. No.

Judge Pyle: We object to that if the court please 
as being leading and suggestive.

The Court: Overruled. Go ahead.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Direct



274

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Direct 

By Attorney Ming:

Q. Did you understand my question! A. Yes sir.
Q. Did she ever tell you that! A. She didn’t ever tell 

me.
Q. Did Euthie Nell ever tell you that! A. No.
Q. How often on an average do you see Bertha Kirk­

land! A. Bout once a month at church.
Q. How far do you live from her house! A. I don’t 

know just how far.
Q. How often do you see Euthie Nell McBeth! A. I

—341—
don’t see her regular. Once every two months. I don’t see 
her once a month.

Q. I show you Eespondent’s Exhibit 9 and call your at­
tention to the seventh line on the first page and ask you if 
that is your signature? A. Yes, that’s my signature.

Q. Did you sign that? Can you tell us when you signed 
it? A. I don’t remember. '

Q. I show you Eespondent’s Exhibit 7 for identification 
and call your attention to the third line on the second page 
and ask you if that is your signature? You tell us when 
you signed it? A. I don’t know.

Q. You don’t remember. Do you remember who asked 
you to sign the first petition I showed you? A. They just 
had the first petition at church.

Q. At church. Was there a meeting? A. A meeting, 
yes.

Q. And when you say they who had it? A. Ah Winson 
Hudson.

Q. Winson Hudson. By the way are you any kin to Win- 
son Hudson? A. She my sister.



275

Q. Now when did yon sign the second petition that I
—342—

showed you? A. I don’t remember.
Q. Will you tell us where you signed it? A. I signed it 

at Louella Sanders.
Q. Was that also at a meeting? Was Mr. Brown pres­

ent? A. No, I don’t remember him being present.

Attorney Ming: You may cross examine.

Cross Examination by Judge P yle :
Q. Alice, did anybody explain to you why it was that 

they wanted you to sign this second petition, Respondent’s 
Exhibit Number 7, after you had already signed a previous 
petition? This one here, this one that’s got only about 
fifteen, fourteen or fifteen names on it. A. No.

Q. Who brought that around to you, this second peti­
tion? A. Well, I don’t remember who brought the second 
one. I signed the first one at uh Louella Sanders.

Q. At Louella Sanders’. Was R. Jess Brown there then? 
A. I don’t remember him being there.

Q. Was Ruthie Nell McBeth there? A. I don’t remem­
ber.

Q. Who talked to you about testifying in this case? A. 
Ah didn’t anybody talk to me.

—343—
Q. Nobody said a thing to you about it? A. My lawyer. 
Q. Which one? A. Ah—

Judge Pyle: Now if the court please we will ask 
her to look at the court and tell him and not look at 
the lawyers there and get his permission or words 
from him.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Cross



276

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Cross

A. Told me what to say? ,
Q. Yes. A. Didn’t nobody tell me what to say.
Q. Not at all? A. No.
Q. Anybody get out a subpoena for you to come down 

here? A. No.

The Court: What was your answer to that? I 
can’t read your lips.

Judge Pyle: She said no, Your Honor.
The Court: I would like to hear her say. You are 

sworn. Can’t you talk. He asked you a question and 
let’s hear your answer to it.

A. Which question you want to hear?
Q. The last one he asked you. A. Did anybody send me

—344—-
a subpoena?

Q. Yes. A. Naw sir.

The Court: All right.

By Judge Pyle:

Q. And you are a sister of this Winson Hudson who 
had testified earlier? A. Yes.

Q. Now you did not have any conversation with Ruthie 
Nell McBeth about her participation in this lawsuit did 
you ? A. —witness mumbling and unable to understand—.

Attorney Ming: We can’t hear you, Mrs. Greer, 
please keep your voice up.

A. No, I didn’t.



277

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Cross 

By Judge Pyle:
Q. Did you ever have any conversation with E. Jess 

Brown about representing you and your children in this 
lawsuit? A. I asked him to.

Q. Who introduced him to you? A. Why we met at the 
church at a meeting.

Q. Were you in the group that came to Jackson and 
talked with E. Jess Brown— A. (Interrupting) No.

—345—
Q. (Continuing) other people here in 1961? A. No.
Q. Or 2. You didn’t come with those people down here? 

A. No.
Q. How did you know E. Jess Brown was a lawyer in the 

first place? A. Well, I didn’t know it until they ah invited 
him up to the church.

Q. What did E. Jess Brown say to you people at the 
church when you told him to represent you about what he 
was going to do for you? A. I don’t remember what all he 
said.

Q. Well, what did you understand that he was going to 
do for you as a lawyer? A. I understood that he was 
going to represent us to file suit to integrate.

Q. And who was going to pay him for this service? A. I 
didn’t ask him who was going to pay him.

Q. What was said to you about who was going to pay the 
court costs and the attorneys fees and things of that kind 
to file a suit? A. Well, I never did ask him.

Q. You didn’t know a thing in the world about E. Jess 
Brown as to whether he was a lawyer that had any ability 
or could find his way to a court house or anything else at

—346—
the time you engaged him to represent you and your daugh­
ter, is that right? A. My son.



278

Q. What? A. My son. I didn’t know him until I met 
him at the church.

Q. Did Medger Evers undertake to tell you people what 
a good lawyer he was and that you should engage him to 
represent you in this matter? A. Who was that?

Q. Medger Evers? A. I don’t remember him telling us.
Q. Was any other lawyer discussed other than E. Jess 

Brown as a possible lawyer to get to represent you people 
in this matter? A. Yes.

Q. Who did you talk about? A. Constant Motley Baker.
Q. And what was she to do? A. She was to represent 

us.
Q. Was anybody else? A. No.
Q. Did you ever meet a lawyer by the name of Byrd? A. 

No.
Q. Goldberg? A. No.

—347—
Q. Did Constance Baker Motley ever come to a meeting 

in Leake County? A. No, not as I know of.
Q. After the complaint was filed with the Clerk of the 

United States District Court down here at Jackson, Mis­
sissippi where your name was used and your child’s name 
was used did you come to court in Jackson in connection 
with that complaint? A. How was that?

Q. Did you come to Jackson in connection with the school 
integration suit after it was filed? A. This is the first 
trial I have been in in Jackson. I have been down here but 
I haven’t been on the witness stand.

Q. You weren’t present in the court when the motion was 
presented to dismiss the suit as to Euthie Nell McBeth? 
A. No.

Q. And her child or children? A. No.

Alice Greer—for Respondent—Cross



279

Q. Did anybody shoot into your home in the fall of 
1962! A. No.

Q. Do you know a person in that community by the name 
of Charlie Hannah! A. Yes.

Q. Is he white or black! A. "White.
—348—

Q. Do you know a Mrs. Majure Hardage, H-a-r-d-a-g-e! 
A. Yes.

Q. Is she a white person or colored person! A. White.
Q. Do you know about their homes being shot into at the 

same the colored homes were supposed to have been shot 
into in the Fall of 1962! A. I heard about it.

Q. But nobody has bothered you? A. No.
Q. As a result of your participation in the integration 

suit have they! A. They tore up my mail box.
Q. Who tore up your mail box! A. I don’t know who it 

was.
Q. And you don’t know why do you? A. I don’t know 

why.

Alice Greer■—for Respondent—Redirect

Judge Pyle: I believe that’s all.

Redirect Examination by Attorney Ming:

Q. Judge Pyle asked you what lawyer you had talked to 
about testifying here. I don’t believe you got an opportu­
nity to answer. What lawyer did you talk to about testify­
ing here? A. I talked with you when you was up there 
that day.

—349—
Q. And how long ago was that? A. Its been a couple of 

months ago.
Q. This was after this lawsuit was filed. Isn’t that right? 

A. Yes.



280

Attorney Ming: I have nothing further, Your 
Honor.

The Court: All right.
(Witness excused.)
Attorney Ming: Your Honor, at this time al­

though its a minute or two after twelve if Your 
Honor approves I would make a motion.

The Court: Oh yes. Go ahead.
Attorney Ming: I would like to make them sepa­

rately if I may.
The Court: Yes, that’s what I want.
Attorney Ming: I first offer in evidence Respon­

dent’s Exhibit 3 for identification, being a registered 
receipt identified by R. Jess Brown.

The Court: You had already got exhibit 3, its been 
admitted in evidence.

—350—
Attorney Ming: I am sorry. Exhibit 4 is the 

registered receipt. It was identified by R. Jess 
Brown.

The Court: Yes, I remember. All right that ex­
hibit 4 may be admitted in evidence and marked ex­
hibit 4.

(Received in evidence and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit 4.) •

Attorney Ming: I move the admission in evidence 
of the return receipt on the same registered article 
as respondent’s exhibit 5 also identified by R. Jess 
Brown.

The Court: All right, that may be admitted in 
evidence and marked exhibit 5.

Motions for Admission of Exhibits



281

Motions for Admission of Exhibits

(Received in evidence and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit 5.)

Attorney Ming: I move admission in evidence of 
Respondent’s Exhibit 6 for identification, being a 
carbon copy of a letter dated 2-23-1962 as a copy of a 
letter of transmittal also identified by R. Jess 
Brown.

The Court: That may be admitted in evidence and 
marked Exhibit 6.

(Received in evidence and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit, 6.)

- 3 5 1 -
Attorney Ming: I move admission in evidence of 

Respondent’s Exhibit 7, being an executed duplicate 
of the second petition in two pages also identified by 
R. Jess Brown.

The Court: That may be admitted in evidence as 
exhibit 7.

(Received in evidence and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit 7.)

Attorney Ming: I move admission of Respon­
dent’s Exhibit Number 8, the return receipt on reg­
istered article number 1185 also identified by R. 
Jess Brown.

The Court: That may be admitted in evidence as 
Exhibit 8.

(Received in evidence and marked Respondent’s 
Exhibit 8.)

Attorney Ming: I move the admission in evidence 
of Respondent’s Exhibit 9 and in explanation, Your 
Honor, the exhibit, I am sorry, that’s already been



282

admitted. I move the admission in evidence of Re­
spondents Exhibit 10 of a carbon eopy of a certain 
letter from R. Jess Brown to Derrick Bell identified 
as such copy by R. Jess Brown.

The Court: That may be admitted in evidence as 
Exhibit 10.

(Received and marked in evidence as Respon­
dent’s Exhibit 10.)

—3 5 2 -
Attorney Ming: And now, Your Honor, I move 

admission in evidence as Respondent’s Exhibit 11 
two mimeographed pages, one unnumbered and one 
bearing page number three, identified by R. Jess 
Brown as an earlier draft of the complaint in this 
eause, part of the earlier draft.

The Court: It may be admitted in evidence as 
Exhibit 11.

(Received and marked in evidence as Respon­
dent’s Exhibit 11.)

Attorney Ming: Now I move admission in evi­
dence of Respondent’s Exhibit 2, being a carbon 
copy of an opinion in letter from in this cause dated 
June 24, 1963 entered by Judge Mize of this Court 
and transmitted to the attorneys of record including 
R. Jess Brown and identified by R. Jess Brown.

The Court: No objection I will admit that in evi­
dence as Respondent’s Exhibit 2. I don’t think that 
opinion is relevant though. I am not going to give 
any consideration to it.

Judge Pyle: If Your Honor please, we had inter­
posed an objection to it at the time it was offered.

Motions for Admission of Exhibits



Attorney Ming: I waited until last on it.
— 353—

The Court: I noticed you did. I am going to sus­
tain the objection to it because I don’t think that 
opinion is relevant at all for what we have got here.

Attorney Ming: I would like to be heard on that.
The Court: It wouldn’t do you any good because 

I am so thoroughly familiar with it that you couldn’t 
say anything to make me change my mind so I will 
just give you credit for having made a long speech 
about it.

Attorney Ming: I don’t think lawyers get much 
credit for long speeches, Judge.

The Court: I won’t give you any discredit then.
Attorney Ming: Thank you. I take it you are sus­

taining the objection to.
The Court: Oh yes, your objection is noted.
The Clerk: Your Honor, was that admitted or not.
The Court: Its not admitted. Its just uh in other

- 354-

words I don’t think that opinion has any effect or 
that decision has any effect on this proceeding before 
the Court.

Attorney Ming: Now Your Honor, there were also 
called to the Court’s attention in support of my mo­
tion at the outset of the hearing on July 27 an order 
dismissing the cause, a notice of appeal filed and 
though Miss Wharton has been kind enough to 
furnish us with a list of exhibits I do not find those 
documents included. It was my intention to offer 
those as exhibits in support of my motion on July 
27 and we do not yet have the transcript so I am not 
in a position to ascertain what the exact statement

Motions for Admission of Exhibits



284

was but I would like at this time to ask to have the 
order of Judge Mize dismissing this cause uh marked 
and admitted in evidence as Respondent’s Exhibit 
12. I believe the date of that order is July 5, 1963. 
If I may, Your Honor, I would like leave to supply 
a copy as Respondent’s Exhibit 12.

Judge Pyle: Of course we would object to that as 
being immaterial to the issues here in this proceed­
ing.

Attorney Ming: May I suggest, Your Honor, that 
that was offered in support of my motion to termi­
nate this proceeding on July 27 in light of the fact 
that that order had been entered and is only offered 
for that purpose.

—355—
The Court: Well, it seems to me that this order of 

July the 5th, 1963,1 take it that that is following his 
letter opinion of June the 24th, 1963 and is a ter­
minating order.

Attorney Ming: That’s my understanding.
The Court: This order of Judge Mize on July the 

5th, 1963 may be included with the letter opinion of 
Judge Mize three pages dated June 24, 1963 and 
both of them may be treated as the defendants Ex­
hibit 2 for identification. I sustain the objection to 
the orders but they are permitted to go in here for 
what they may be worth as identified.

(Marked Respondent’s Exhibit 2 for identifica­
tion.)

Attorney Ming: Now, Your Honor, I also would 
ask to have marked as Respondent’s Exhibit 12 uh 
the notice of appeal filed in this cause on or about 
July 12, 1963 and offered for the same purpose.

Motions for Admission of Exhibits



285

The Court: That may be likewise included in the 
Respondent’s Exhibit 2 for identification.

Attorney Ming: And likewise denied admission on 
Your Honor’s ruling?

—356—
'The Court: That’s right as being irrelevant to 

the issue.
Attorney Ming: May I have just a moment, Your 

Honor?
The Court: Yes.
Attorney Ming: According to our notes, Your 

Honor, that takes care of all the documents marked 
at the instance of the respondent.

The Court: I believe that’s correct.
Attorney Ming: The Respondent has nothing 

further, Your Honor.
The Court: All right.
(Respondent rests.)
The Court: Judge Pyle, you have anything

further?
Judge Pyle: May it please the Court, in order 

that the record may be clear as to the evidence to be 
considered by the court in support of the court’s 
order to show cause which issued out of this Civil 
Action 3382 to Attorney R. Jess Brown in the begin­
ning of the hearing—

—357—
The Court: Do you have anything further to offer 

in evidence?
Judge Pyle: Yes sir, I wanted to be sure that 

these documents which we marked for identification 
because they were a part of the court file in civil

Motions for Admission of Exhibits



286

action 3382 are in evidence in this proceeding on the 
order to show cause; that is court’s exhibit number 1 
the original complaint which was marked for iden­
tification only at the time we ask be received in 
evidence as Exhibit Number 1.

The Court: All right, that may be admitted in 
evidence and marked Court’s Exhibit Number 1.

(Received and marked in evidence as Court’s 
Exhibit 1.)

Judge Pyle : We would ask that Court’s Exhibit 
Number 2 for identification, the motion to dismiss, 
be received in evidence in this proceeding as Court’s 
Exhibit Number 2.

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, I should like to ob­
ject to the admission of that motion on the ground 
that it was not filed in accordance with the rules of 
this court and there is no evidence that the party 
purporting to be the movant authorized the filing 
of it and certainly wasn’t filed in accordance with the 
rules of the court.

—358—-
The Court: Well, I will overrule your objection 

and let that be admitted in evidence as Court’s Ex­
hibit 2.

(Received and marked in evidence as Court’s 
Exhibit 2.)

Judge Pyle: If Your Honor please, I believe that 
covers those exhibits.

The Court: You have one other one.
Judge Pyle: Yes sir, it was a petition which some 

of the names had been blotted out that we had marked 
for identification. I do not care to pursue that.

Motions for Admission of Exhibits



287

Colloquy

The Court: I believe the one that I was thinking 
about was Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1 was 
merely marked for identification.

Attorney Ming: Respondent’s Exhibit Number 1 
was apparently both marked and admitted.

The Court: I notice that now, yes.
Attorney Ming: I was just going to ask about 

Court’s Exhibit 3. The list furnished me by Miss 
Wharton indicates that it was admitted in evidence.

— 359—

It was my understanding from examining that it had 
been marked for identification and neither offered 
nor admitted.

The Court: Which one was that!
Attorney Ming: That’s Court’s Number 3, its a 

photocopy of a petition.
The Court: Its marked in evidence apparently. 

Its marked in evidence.
Attorney Ming: I think the document itself, I am 

sorry, I have it.
The Court: Its marked in evidence. I think that 

was one that was a photocopy that had a whole lot 
of striking through.

Attorney Ming: That’s right and, I am sorry, its 
Court’s Exhibit 4 that was not, 3 was admitted in 
evidence. The list is quite accurate but 4 does not 
appear on the list has been marked only for iden­
tification.

The Court: That’s correct. That seems to be just 
for identification.

- 360-

Judge Pyle: And we did not care to pursue that, 
Your Honor.



Colloquy

The Court: Well, let me see about that now. Num­
ber 4 is a photocopy of a petition you say that was 
put in.

Judge Pyle: For identification.
The Court: Well, where was that ever admitted 

in evidence?
Attorney Ming: It was not, Your Honor, and the 

document is correctly so marked and Miss Wharton’s 
list is also correct. I was confused.

The Court: All right. Anything further, gentle­
men?

Judge Pyle: Indulge me just one second?
The Court: All right.
Judge Pyle: May it please the Court, we have no 

further proof to offer on behalf of the Court.
The Court: All right. You rest?

—361—-
Judge Pyle: Yes sir.
(Court rests.)
The Court: Both sides rest?
Attorney Ming: We rest, Your Honor.
The Court: All right.
(Respondent rests.)
The Court: All right, gentlemen, I will take this 

under advisement. I will have to file a detailed find­
ing and conclusion and I will do that after review­
ing my notes and let you hear from me.

Attorney Ming: If its consistent with the Court’s 
views I would like to have an opportunity to either 
present to the court an oral argument or a memo­
randum of brief in support of the return made by 
the respondent.



289

Colloquy

The Court: I will let you give me a memoranda 
on it. You may give me a memoranda if you wish.

Attornev Ming: All right sir. May I have two
— 362-

weeks to do that depending on when I am going to 
get the transcript.

The Court: Well, has anything been down toward 
working on the transcript?

Attorney Ming: I have ordered it from the re­
porter.

The Court: Oh. I see.
Attorney Ming: And I have so much of it as the 

reporter has prepared and we have everything but 
the last hearing.

The Court Reporter: The last hearing hasn’t 
been ordered, Judge.

The Court: Well the Court doesn’t desire because 
it doesn’t need any oral arguments in this case. If 
either side desires to file a memoranda and counsel 
for respondent has requested that they may do so 
within the next two weeks. Those memoranda will 
be independent memoranda which will not require 
any response from the opponent but any memo­
randa that’s filed by either side will be furnished 
to opposing counsel.

Attorney Ming: Your Honor, for the record may 
I have an exception to not being allowed to present 
an oral argument and not proceeding by brief and 
reply in the ordinary course?

— 363—

The Court: Yes sir.
Attorney Ming: Thank you, Your Honor.
(At which time this cause was taken under advise­

ment by the Court.)



290

Certificate

—364—
Court R eporter ’s C ertieicate

I, William A. Davis, Official Court Reporter in and for 
the United States District Court for the Southern District 
of Mississippi, do hereby certify that the foregoing 346 
pages contain a true and correct transcript of the proceed­
ings in the above styled and numbered cause on the dates 
therein set forth, before the Court, at Jackson, Mississippi, 
to the best of my skill and ability.

Witness my signature this the 27th day of December, 
1963.

W illiam  A. D avis 
Official Court Reporter



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