Hearing Transcript

    4 9
1056

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT..*,.- '
i\  X fiili L j J i»'> x  iL> L\u f D  . . L i s ' x . i i J L  W* x v-1* ii J.L. li

SOUTHERN DIVISION

RONALD BRADLEY and RICHARD 
BRADLEY, et al.,

Plaintiff;

NILLIAH G. HILLIKEM, Governor of 
the State of Michigan, et al.,

Defendants
DETROIT FEDERATION OF TZACRZRS, 
LOCAL 231, AMERICAN FEDERATION 
OF TEACHERS, AFL-CIO, et al.,

Intervening Defendants.

)
)
)
}
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No. 35257

. Proceedings had in the above-entitled natter 
re: Purchase of Buses before Honorable Stephen J. Roth, United
States District Judge, at'"Detroit, Michigan on Monday, July 
10, 1972. ' " ' ‘

(Appearances sair.a as before except 
JAMES B. Veu.Casovie for Detroit Federation of Teacher a)

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1857

• - Detroit, Michigan
. Monday, July 10, 1372

2:00 o'clock, P.H.

THE CLERK: Case Mo. 35257. Ronald Bradley,
et al. , v William G. Milliken, et al.

Til?/ C'Ot'RT: Let me begin first of all by apolO
gizing to you gentlemen who are of counsel in this cane for 
not having seen to it that you got copies of the corjriunication 
I received from the panel which I appointed. They furnished 
me with enough conies and due to the press of other business 
I failed to tell my staff to make sure you got copies. Its- 
contents, I an sure, is no surprise to you. The matter has 
been a matter of public notice for sometime and is a matter 
which you must have anticipated in any event whether you 
never read any newspaper or listened to radio or watched 
television.

„ I am not sure of something else in this case
and I would like to have the benefit of the views of counsel. 
There are going to be many natters I suspect which will 
require action from the Court from time to time in connection

i
with our -effort to do the job before us and that is to effect!
the desegregation of the D

1 S US --OC t
tllv-i O J- no gaidalines wi
procedure or proc ess anu ::
instance. \ ou o. re here to

nn; to some of Loose matters

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if wc are to neve ahead the Court must make some disposition 
and perhaps issue some oraers with respect to the acquisition 
Ox transportation equipment. There will be other matters of 
a xike nature tnat will arise zrora time to time and I v/ant to 
accommodate counsel and the parties. I want them to know v;ha 
rs happening to the extent that it is necessary that they 
participate in them and I would like to have your suggestions 
to what, if any, method of notice we can develop or establish 
v/.iicn will give you what you need and yet will permit the Court: 
to move ahead on its assigned task, as they see it.-

I woule like to have your views, gentlemen.
Mr. Reumall.

lih. ROUi'-loLI.: May it . please the Court just for
inroru,axion or cue Court your clerk did call my secretary at 
about 2:30 Friday and 1 was out of tue city but my secretary 
v/as instructed to contact the panel which she did through 
another party and we did make all attempts by-'-telegram to 
contact as many parties as possible to this action and we would 
be very glad to assist the Court if the Court should ask us 
to do that again.

Tub COURT: Kell, Mr. Roumell, while you are on
-•youi xwx.t ter! me waat do you think would be the most effcctiv

. i■ i
v.av of aom-g tue tas.-c I am concerned about and that is getting

usual uispatch call.: 
in Civil Cases?

cjontiiGae.en r all of the pa
\ •' > r* r- r' ■! u- i. * k - o  -id t b- I P Ci T.love witii
for under the Federal R rW.lv-:'



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lf.s'w.

ISR. ROUMELL: Your Honor, I have sucres t‘••a
that one of us could notify all counsel or that the Cou,

' s.
a designated day aside each week for the purposes of hei„

li
the matters coining up in this case so all counsel can a,

their schedule to be available on that day on a weekly )(li '♦*t\
>i.

I just thought of that one minute ago.

THE COURT: You act well under pressure,

ILR. R0UN2LL: I used to be a dishwasher
M .

res t a u r an t«

I think that method would allow counsel ,. u
adjust their schedule, No. 1, and No. 2, they could chee*. 

v/itin your staff to see if there are matters coming uo oi. .
A..

given day and v;e could arrange our respective schedules ,( t
’•d

yet we could give you the dispatch that the Court has in,.,

it desires in tills matter. ted

THE COURT: Thank you, Hr. Roumeil

■. Lucas

NR. LUCAS: I'm not sure that a regular
•v

iceessary and the thought occurs to me if counsel die. ,

one day before there might be seme tiling that comes up tb * )
r a. . .•• '--i.noon tnat no checked and found'out court isn’t gain

day.

TI-I* COUIVT: Yd t ■*baaing that on exparj
a *) "t* ■. x. '• j c a a a ?



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man r*wrwijiiaawgîaa3l r; •

. . 1SC0

• . Hot part-LCularly in this c<;ye 

but it seems a situation does arise depending on perhaps 

tlie Attorney General opinion letters on occasion but it seems 

in accepting Mr. Roinell’s offer to notify all parties might 

be an undue burden on him but perhaps one lawyer representing 

the plaintiffs and one lav/yer representing say all interveners 

could be responsible for notifying then, thereby letting your 

office make three telephone calls and putting the responsi­

bility on counsel to communicate it to others on a particular 

side or representing a facet of the litigation.

THE COURT: M r . Krasicky.

MR. KRASICKY: The system that was employed

on Friday apparently works. Your clerk called me and 

fortunately tne panel vus an Lansing and X. called John Porter 

and he contacted them. I would ask the Court in the future

at the notice be confirmed in writing so as to be certain
•*, i —U k- will ...be before, the Court on a particul ar day. This is
cort i ng a very voluminous case and vre can only bring so much

material with uc when we come and we got here and talk to

counsel an cl wo find out other things may cone ur> and we don't
‘ . j

have the material with us and it presents problems.
j

I would strongly urge that we continue using j
' i

the telephone system and that it be confirmed in writing,

THE COURT: Mr. Ritchie.



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"■'j w-G jT̂/o r*iriij- ' ju>4 P.ITCIrTI2: ^2 v

defendants are concerned a phone call to ray office is more 

t"an sufficient and if I can't ie over one of the other

attorneys can cone , assuming it is a matter which affects my 
client. • ' .

THE COURT: Hr. Saxton.

HR. UAXTOH: I'm not sure what the logistics

are. If it's a matter ’when the panel finds it needs to come 

before the Court, I think it could be simplified. All of the | 

fc.xê> were permitted to have designees on the panel. I 

thj.nk it would be simple for that designee on the panel to 

inform counsel for the party who really made that designation
as to what

1 •t .
is going to come before the Court

1
would save the Court fron having to go throw
problem and if it were soma til-tag beyond f* r\ ■{-— j i u  e

customary notice aron the court clerk would be satisfactory.

.fd. 1 cf cne parries have a desionse *cihd if the
panei ^inds chey are going to have to come before the Cour
foi' sc:.;e reason I think it would take a burdon off the Court 1
if the designated panelist would merely call their , . 1 people and ;
advice tĥ m,,whoj!,._thoy arc to come before the Court.

•- . J 1‘ . 1
COURT: .Am I to take that, Hr • Saxton
panel no c i it jl 0 2 you will take care o£-

c* v, \ -r. '. \ • ;I will .automatical Iv notify



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V.y

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Mr. Cuiicx L uiiu Mr. C ?Connell,

. • . - COURT: Fine. 1 wish to make this other

point that some of these matters and perhaps the one today i: 

a matter which perhaps I need not have noticed for hearing.

noc spying X shouldn’t but what I propose to do is lot 

you hr.ov; what is going on even if technically you are not 

required to be notified. I want you informed of what steps 

are being taken or proposed to be taken.

Nov; then for ray edification and to express 

m.y appreciation for what the panel has done down to this 

point I would like to have each of you stand and identify 

yourself by name and your association, -whether with the school 
system or otherwise 

perhaps we will sto

MR.

Board of Education. '

x-i.o. SCOTT: Mrs. Rita Scott, State Department
of Civil Rights. -■ ' j

.jRs . RlOiOAN: Mary Ellen l-li or dan from the
. i

Detroit Federation of

and how your designation c
't with you, the oldtiraer, .
HERRICKSON; Merle Henri cl:;

of Michigan,

: i O a o f  T o n c h e -v- r ­
e- - j

M  P  *  * I v / i G i i E R :
-  T  
l l a r o I d r T 'h  < ->>* ». r

. o r .  i n  T r a n s p o t u t i o n .

v r > V_v -sA i i  *  » : 1\ X r d  M o r s ! U o

~  x i '  1a  t o d  b y  o : . :\ J W  1.
- J - K  
o .  . e  d e f e r . 1

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1863

■ MR. FOSTER: Gordon Foster, University of

Miami with, the plaintiffs. . .

MR. PIERCE: William Pierce, Michigan State

Department of Education, designated by John Porter.

- MR. FLYETI: Freeman Flynn, Detroit Public
Schools.

MR. McCUTCIIEOH: Aubrey McCutcheon, Detroit
Public Schools. .

MR. EMERSON: William Emerson, Oakland School

representing the suburbs. ' . .

MR. ERASURE: Melvin Leasuro, Teacher, repre-
■ i ■ senting MEA.. - •

THE COUHT 5 That makes how r■any of the par:el
members, I have n't ccunted them? All of then. Wondersul
attendance rccord. Let me again e > : p : •ass my appreciation for

. the work you are do ing and the dispatch and expoux c*xon V7xth
which you tackl ed the ' job. You have nr** C. U'ii tw grea t help to me

i' 1l and will be in the £u■t nitre •
1

, i Kov; thfdn p s I have indieate d b’; th.e notice
|i
j

■ ' what \;e arc concerned• about is the tito sake dale . It has to

! do first of all with "Lirci'o d r t. d. Izion, The ro­ , .7e ti. so far and
: in the main cos e or t ;a r:ain hearing ve held v/h .1oh consumed
: some 6.1 hearing day-:., it wa ‘o CVr J.. •'.iO I a C there v:OUld bo a coriouf.

i- y
'problem in conn action with iibu O - -i ■/ Uhe’ a ecruid it Lon of



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transportation, of substantial numbers of units, but other 

needs associated with transportation and I have outlined that 

in one of ray rulings so we need not go over old ground.

It moans this, the panel is persuaded, as I 

have1 been even before their suggestion ‘to ne that if wo. are 

to go about the natter of desegregation we have to make 

movement and fast movement on the natter of acquiring trans­

portation adequate to the needs. Time passes and these natter 

require lag tine so far as performance and delivery is con­

cerned. If V7c act today it nay bo not as rapidly as wo 

should but certainly it will be more rapid than if we act 

later. Your views I would like, therefore, on the matter of 

sue u j a w  a la o r. or tXcmopo«L cucon, xr. s oraemvq ana I assume 

its payment.

Do you wish to be heard first on that, Mr. 

Lucas? '

MR. LUCii.fi: Yes, your Honor. 'Jo nave a

pending motion as I recall which calls for the purchase of 

transportation equipment and that it be done by the Detroit 

Hoard being required to place the order and the state

d o £ o n d a n t s u p o n dC: 1X v L- m •/ / t'. »J wo a t no o s t a_nd f-}\ r> va 1 >* l''Uii v . .  : - O w  V-*. U 1 —  V .. j

re paired to sect the funds to pay for ■>. J buses.
r .Tii O zj \X C' 0 O 1‘ * **d to the CourX- X.u. ho Detroit Boar

' b e cu u s o '* o i i t; s s t a'f i sit u a ti o n axnrj uhi :gencv most able to



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respond quickly for the purchose of the hr.sen, We suggest \ 

tiiat the state defendants raake p a r e n t  of then in part because 

tne responsibility which thp Court found in its original 

ruling and I refer particularly in the findings with respect 

v-o the assistance of par pupil transportation given to many 

suournan districts and which Detroit did not receive from the
State over thee j a” S

. V7e would suggest that the notion be granted

m  that respect and that the Court require that the purchase 

be made by negotiation rather than bidding procedure. As I 

understand it the panel has contacted sources of supply for 

’ poruiition equipment including one which indicated they

t,uil nave a contract ny today but as the Court has previously 
saia toeuy is probanly just as good tom 
day after.

sorrow morning or the

so we ’would suggest that the Court set seme 

strictures suen as turns days for the placing of the

■ ■ ̂  el •—tOr tiers. X am not apprised in detail as to where the 

arc available but I understand the 

c -lc; survey tne availability. Some of those buses mav no longer
wb Ch- u.ie-il l. O - l i , c . L C a c J . O .

*-/t.- v/. v la ±  J . JL C: jJ  u  v- :. tr.oy ?.ro o. v 3. i 1 ab 1 o 1 tiiink 
they should all be acquired. ’

('* r* q jb 3 O r P I think should bo
included'and as read the panel's report to the Court they



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18C6

*r + .\ s ̂ j-t- _u.* i vjarc B0O;cin,/̂ '̂"io 1 ° iri^ >-> n j-

court covered it m  its order end that is there \:o.s a 

recommendation of the panel the- Court authorise rental leasin 

o* ocuor contractuar arranger.vents. It may be that outright 

pjj.chciee or tne transportation equipment raight bo mere expen­

sive than necessary if a lease arrangement could be set up.

.. Furthermore, the Detroit Street Railway has 

sOî .e transportation sacilitieo available and the Detroit 

Board, a.s I understand it, uses their services on a contract 

basis. The panel has talked to the Detroit Street Failv/nv

I think they should be .authorised to proceed withpa epee- am

tnat and tne. Detroit Board directed to enter into such con-
ur ac vS o.s can ou arra.22.ged*

There nay be a further report needed on the 
Detroit Street Railway aspects.

Bourne11 for the Detroit Board.

MB. KOUliELL: You

waning I a.-.’ only coing so your Honor to call your attention 

problem that the Detroit Board

C.lO'lC

^  C-A A f. .  4 >

have a bo;iri.i;*r on position the U  wtiS..e Coin
this hearing. The Court is well’aware that 

tOtn day of erne, 197.?, issued the prelimin: 

virnsr cue sev.rv.5-e eoarcl ox bclucation concc

=ard next. Mr

appear to bo

.1 your at tent

iov/ til at ns; '  r

'ould ti;e dur.
* v. b  U  a. u, w the

injunction 

.no the having

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i o r oX o u o

. If ve got: the five mill renewal we will have

$2S-niilion more which in turn will give us about 1C7 days. 

If the citizens of Detroit respond to our need for the addi- 

wion^x live nulls we asned for —  our slogan was "Five - Five

For Survival" - we will get $ 20-million- which v/ii: live e
$272-nillion which will allow us to operate ISO days and give 

us a little money to pay bach this $33-idLllion that we owe 
although not completely. .

now, your honor, the point I'm attempting to 

make, wo intend to obey your order because it is an order 

Oi. '-no court. >«g aro destitute. \'lo nay very 'well be back
hoforo this Court in very chert order retina for mono\ay or a
way to get money. You sec, one of the problems wo face here

cron an cctucccion-ul standpoint is when our i- ~;ay, men one
women, struggling with a very serious financial problem came 

up with 117 days they were also simultaneously ordering the 

curriculum department to compact the courser, so at least 

our children in 117 days would get the equivalent or somewhere 
near the equivalent of 100 dr-vs.

i think we all recognize that in education 

generalj.y vnon you nave to shorten your days of instruction
you ury to compact 

face and we no longer arc doing
vo material. The problem that w now

. ' r~.. >' -A ■>-J <-o try to
o p a r a t c ■' nr. d e - o' van wo operate under 120 davs and



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.na if, your Honor, nobody cones forth to help us financially, 

State doesn't v/e can't get relief in the court svstenif the

u. e co a la cone a point in January or February where a 

curriculum that is planned on ISO days will all of a sudden 

cone to a scop, Wo are aware of one major city in Ohio where 

this did happen for a tine. Wa don't want that to happen.

1 Know tll° Court doesn’t want it to happen and I an just 
advising the Court of the problem.

What I an saying here then, going bach to

:no Court did ask no to respond, to ust said I
think has a direct scaring on this. I don’t believe that the

Detroit Board of Education at any time should be asked to

gu.Y.ea-.'.-u.' any ^u-jss oecausc v;e are having trouble getting th 
thr o g R ' s a o i n a .

arrested h ■s <-• o 7 • a , w- ■'

saying to the Court I

I know -tiie r eccKSsend a ti on of the panel is

van, of course, what I an 

Chin}; the Court should consider the

' > O y cl p 1' T hw  - i  V-’-  j  C  .  U» .‘.< w
mate fund aspect of it because we, the Detroi

esont true and not in the fcrseeablc futus

C  ; i  ' t  O r  V  sic ‘  '■ .L  r?  1 s C  '■•J f  \‘f  i- i }  i  l-J 0  ’

need

her Of 311F WOnty jllst to keep ©US 

rearguing the motion, you have 

t mho purpose of my ccmcr.onto. Ilv

.- 1—  -A-*-..*i-it.uvi to o..v. court and j. con c tarn;.

i.uus iaal-J.y • oocn acne rn the courtroom about ho/ do’snorate

scho o Ir O o m O  e n.



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cur rmancial situation is. I don't believe our board ca 
■UG ^cbed to do anyth!r 
because wo p

_ about; putting out additional monies 

sc wo are going to coma back, v/c nay have to cons back 

- ..k *iot we wall, we nay have to cone back and ask'V' •f*/■*>*■ -o wZ.

sons relief son.ewliore trie lane*

ire g,
are doing everything humanly possible. We 

>rr.g back to our taxnavor asxrng for the funds that thev 
too]; away front us to keep our schools open. -I am just calling

m r s  to your attention. I an giving you our views about who
ui'ie 7»*»Ori rvr r* • _ 1 V.. -  „ Tve i

ord'ar and 1 an i:

?  r _ cio it becau
r*»rN n *> •i- *5^  wo. tntlii

xc going to put up th 

gou a very serious or

as a lawyer. They are new saying that what they say about 

lawyers is true, you never give then u straight nnswc

oa we

CtUi C give, "chm A StUP •? /W-. '- •vs-.i'-vt-iy. -P I s , x-t •j **- ' -* a.w-Acr Ox now they are goi; to
finance beyond 117 day*

1 ncrc ^‘-eng critical of anyone I an just 
tolling the Court or problem and this has a bearing on cur
c-t vb. LulCiO cl C- wTlG piTChiiOnti td-lTlCi on tbo ponaong ropart- Wo note 

calico. at to cur attention, they are rogue; 

irrr the natter bo raid for by the state and ,T just called cui 
per.j.tion to tho Court.

Than’; you
o;rt-

•x i R. ah Pits ICTY : ■ The' panel' 'ids' recommended to'



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1371

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'~oeiu what; there be the immediate purchase of at least 

23e additional vehicles, that these be paid for out of state 

funds. This Court’s order of June 14, 1272 in this particu] 

area, specified that the panel may recommend immediate im.oie-
r.ientafcion of an into; •in segregation plan for Grades K C , 

no or K3 in all or in as many clusters as practicable with 

complete and final desegregation to proceed and in no event 

rater taan tna fall of 12 73 tom. .

Then in its transportation plan the panel 
shall, to meet the need of the m>j.OpCSOa pupI.1 1 rarg -f- cj. ‘-j C O  f

make x'seomrendations •or acquiring sufficient

acre it ion a], transportation facilities, for any interim or final 

plan of desegregation. Then they were given 45 days and 20 

-h ̂ v< n i c*x i co c. cj ~c«

Tncir recommendation only makes a reccm.enda- 

cion m  regard to the buses. They don’t inform this Court 

the number of pupils they intend to 
cue to the

on the intra-Detroit elan the Court

u- 'rein n ]":• o i* t

Court because when this Court heard the ™

. O U j- L-

31 point this 

c evidence

acquisition of many vehicles, the .. j . j.

: 0 -• 4 , s f -T T-. J . * N >-i. ---wu l

puuiIs i'would require
n r* ; - ,-p i

Jr • —k - > *i *1 r f nr, •i - C*.. i vl ---J- ZlJ.ii.j Oj. ;
. of ;>o;ace for

;t.e not ucelr
recrumcnt or maintenance and • 

of •designing a transfercation' system. ' ‘



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to service the school

Tho Court concluded this couldn't be cone by
opening of school on an int ra-Detroit plan.

I would lake it xna.de vorv cV.ir r

xood hr, Lucas' position and if I ’n mistaken I v/xsn you
would correct no, the plaintiffs
ooarci

are asking for the Detroit 
to place- the order and.they are asking that the state

;fendants be required to 5 QCiere the funds to pay for i- n m c* ~ —i
q*-NX uis is v/hiat :I understand the pi a posarro.n to be *

Responding1 to the first point! v,asulci inform
the Court tha':c tl:e Board of Educa i-ioii o r cl s choo X disc rich
doos have auu;verity to pur ;e buses and this io Vf>T 7\ 310.59 ■■
and MSA 15 .3591. And they ,o> ■v.s atthorized by the logic -L a tore
4-W nurch " e buses on title retain ing contracts or by t.he
2_ 3 ■snance o f O' Oxiligations of the di;struct pledging j.n payment
x-'.CJsies in x.l- ̂  U  i o general fund or funds received from -f-V.rt .c*X. •state
fo:r aid in the support of ■the pub:i i  ̂Vv I ~

Then there is a 1 :Imitation that thiO financing
O- X. "U n C ri O JJ1as os: on time can r*|Q 'h bo based upon oblig a tie::s v/hich
iJ-j. {j! J, ■ .« Is f c_t >-' this purpose fo,:: a 1 o^ ^  ‘r v- *i rs • *)* ■' - v,*** V * * .J s"** s- i * <.1*1 the i;i
Cf> 1:r mat eel ■mri od of useful:i it C W* of the buses for v/hi oh i

1
.nsuecl •

ci;.« determx: 0 Cl by the board on, '1 .1 x1 no cvc.i c id' n Xonejer: period
f-K -■

' • O o the Detroit'board has'the author!

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•-> J, u*»attention, as v/c have done over and over again the decic 

of Judge Marhige in Bradley v' the School Board of the City 

of Richmond, 51 Federal Rules Decisions 139, that state 

officials may only be directed to use those now

■cneet d v lav/, he third: th

__ tors granted 

is is sound lav; and v/e thin
hould be followed.

Thank vou verv ranch.

THE COURT: Others wish to be heard on this
V  c- p; r-k-L « JL\JL̂C#Ia.L

VO T>TrPrr-rTP •X J-*. < O *. wi. V_-* i . r enaorso tne reccr.mendatrons
V..r the panel. Having a nerober on tire panel I 

-Oning src. 1 rcuic rurchor onciorso 'che notion

XIICW 1C

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Lucas, mainly that the 

pay for the cos

•1 S :  ^ r - 7 rr'v • • -o, r '  •̂•>*?* P  -? f*

plan at the time

of what buses are available tc 

suggested by the Court.

rt no

nplemenfc tIn

■ Mr. Roumcll in his address to the Court
i! ■

- • _ . , . . , . . .c.rorem,oa a ait as to tne pirgnt of tne Detroit School' j
District and talked to some length about /.village and its

I
possibilities and its past failure. I point out to the Court 

that the reason that the last nillace connaion of which 1
f. i

actually will tell x.x o c o i.r v. \ ~ a s >nr z.i.ox ,xmi un
.'Ccause tae

large extent did not vote for niliaga, thev did.

Mileage v/ac defeated by a negative vote in





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/ Vi ,} : l- i' 1 predominate in the numbers of the electorate / it

yecoming very apparent both from the proofs in tin is case and 

in the more recent nillage defeat that the City of Detroit 

v;rth the present structure of the electorate has no reasonabi 

expectation of solving its financial problems.

THE COURT: Mr. Lor

on this?
go you wish to be heard;

HR. LORD: Loaningyour Hone:

THE COURT: Let's g o  back to

iov; ao you and Hr. Saxton get along?

procedure matter

MR. LORD: Hot bad at times.

THE COURT: You needn't answer that,

blinking now in terms of appointing liaison counsel in terms

am

mV' * T> A  f* -j /-« jT\^  -j-. -t ± e- -v O  •

MR. LORD; That would be fine. 

HR. OLHTOM; Th.at would be fi.no« o- j  . ,

or notaryrng rum?

COURT: Yes.
1
i! ' f."r* o nvr;̂ ; ? - r? ■> **, ̂

i
| MR VOr,. h, JVV'M v-hero. 7*yr* "U on ly

■ | 
core‘.o e t

an tns. point i i eve f i 1 ed our I:*0 U -i.vjr
for n stay. It :Vi\y VR-.11 be your ;fcr,orrV C- Cellal ci 0-4. m --v id UC,
morion was ■c for all o



*

< J

3- 8 7 7

iceived notace
Ci r.c i cnn Cuu.-.t : so cia otner counsel? You know

aoouu it, ton t you, Mr. Krasick'

•age out 1 cot

HR. KRASICKY: Yes, we received ours.

MR. F.OUMELL: I had trouble cretting the third S
■ . |

• ■ t
MR. LORD: I only got two pages.

' __ I
HR* ROUMELL; The other motion, the injunction,

■ |
MR. LORD: All right. Other than that I have ■

not "< ■> n

on this?

THE COURr: Do you wish to be heard, nr. burcon

i.-Uy -I -.y il

in.. S:v.0.v.iH: ‘da addressee oursv.uves to thx

before v/hc-n Mr. Lucas subrdtted

Our position v/oulcm  -M u»»i

an v;rxtxr.g.

:.n concurrence with Mr.
is x cuv uita one r:

C ue Cj -o oosoqreccR

.i t COco
' i-i r.vc

'.king a
-v-- J . e . .  i  -M  L . VvC-UJ.C. • O-.U :

the ‘72

rixcm

c. r

a  a-. * » v • ■ r .; -

-1. a .  Ue*.. V.

. y  v . . - y  l.\. <*.,*. U- viV.‘7 TV'*

. y* o;i t.'i o j'vc,cch ■ o 1. nn



187 3

v J xs evident non 

intra-Detroit

ansoortation would bo needed even for

ii' only

leasing ie the orov-tdcno r< 0-

here involved. ■

HR, VouCASOVIC: Uy nano is Janos VouCasovic.

■■nr’a.v for the Detroit Federation of» O  A- '—j  V

2.CiiOl s * •■a r.-jov r*. o  o  n  ps rJ,-[ L̂on to the notion before the Court

i t  .7  ✓ •a '  i  v  o  vJ. Vo UiU j u lilca to add ve were delighted to hear

>•> i • — --D ; 1 re n «-_• v*. 1 -'r Vfh;*; v r d n  t ppf P>Via.vO a L- -»c~ A. v» i,i*e A» a - >—. *. -j c. ± *■ ’ 'w* v.i notion on the 130-day school

nT.T t? pop- 7 77:rn * ■'.ys- - r h "l C* "! <** /i. *idj L v i u  d.i, . - iti V j with respect to

hat we have under consideration, that is. the natter

of acquisition, of transportation equipments lO;;'.;.

com j. l. meal; on ben a is o:

i t i o  P U J i i CO  vv ■%— O -* r -— . i.

K r a s x c u v  p r  o  s <

iohools we concur substantial

•n sifinor raj.

; 'V, fi -- T ;'

to irmicaj. r,rni'. l  i  V  \ J A . V  A t  -A i  A VV -

L ' u o C o  t U t o' y, r . v c p y  c, r- t. tV< r>..J* v- V* A i- .A A3.., ..At >•

me ourcnase

pav for then,

*]’ "1 .•■"T "i •!'r\ 'cV i*h ry f > if dvs'.-'*

on rv^nait 01 .■) j ^ T ' ̂ -v oniv itai.i:

v./ A- •-: -A

, ̂ -J- , • A.-. i> 3.. i n ».



UJ.
;

4

i
i

i fj79

•.its co us us j. no’>

sitting.here and undoubtedly they are a gifted group of

nacres and gentlemen*

so atOi.

I listened to'1 4- /w «f-1-» /r» 4- /-> o  4-* - r-;^p\r

ry Id implement a proc

nv so.fi

*u u-i.

Oi*■ n 972.

raw trie croup and listens a to tne common >

xr.d r speak nor to above and beyond the technical matters, i

o  ‘cu.'.p varvone v:ho testified from the witness chair on

behalf of implementing

1 0 X  O  ' * X  U» . L ». i C  . ' ■ ' '■Uri d w2TG' j iTUUI a)y’ C-fl

a program said there v/a

I all of *72 other 

Tf p ..■;• - n tree it is 

__ _ less than sixty

cm when school will start.

Vic. have boon considering what this moans , fos

n> c* 4* t ■» -a /-.t ? n t-; rl VIG- r' r" CJw o  «>- u»3 f-a, »* U . j.v» W  v. n  • just - July 10

r-carrle, in our district if there is tc be any typo of imple­

mentation. bv September of 1272. I suggest to toe Court if

ire rl-A!- SUt: rig ni

are

cat oj m i d

i

iI

* v ICO Da.: o:
~ X  ff s :oi:n



1 R? 0

'T3Ur ch ?\r>G C2T nc^'sent nf t-n

rao-m.xtted a notion for a stav,

—-1 c*—*u. t v m n m  u ceupi o.ays ro rile met;: tion that i
or ouri -  O  ui «.OO ♦ r- 7 <-7rr? i f ’ J" ,t >*?.''} /*S *f* M f-j V’f' v* -*) /-> C. ~

—* ~4~ w - r - < w  u .  .. . i  - . O i .  C 4 CO /  i i x i O .

Co v U  L ;  O i.  COUXO will conoid

linost ever-;

\~ c-«- i ci L* 4

y party litigant has appeals pend­
ing right now and 4-n v-.i- e oic-,at tho general, if not 

:ashxoaod approach to solve problems through- the courts v/a<

to try and resolve these without hi C*. O  J» t_> -i. C

an •co r u e  group end think of .r  CJ—V.C- O -  C nci tin : - ior
too problems involved jus- 

scans to no vo are taking

xnvoivrng one senooj / » *j <P f* *! 0 ~  1 Ji-

Vjp£2 Oi- c.-)p]. Ociot. "CO oxv

. . . V

I til ink it would be much bettor to resolve 

these appeal matters and to await am; imolonontati on
fp>1 1 19/3. Tnon I third; v;o can net ncooio

X O<r771 i SO <’;V /h -w gX »,-v -u

cxva to rax 1 logo • •; >o g-'T t  *> -• o r ' nci a •/c*i. g ci_t _e — x

- .-it*. J. UCh





.202

'O.W assignments for the transportation or rrr O ’ c---*

d o Postpone

\-7o Kpv-- ■f*-» lor) nr1"• —’ ■* »  C v v >-■ -u, -fc. V_-C •— > v  .  .—

a pendency or apooais anci as if

G C O C c l  ’ S  W 1’ 7 ) 1

o •_•-- - O ‘f Crl O 2TCi (

purceasg o

VJa would recruost the Court b
r- ^ >». -: r " Y* v- r-r a T 7 O* 1 7

orccnnq

a n o p p o r t. u n i t. y
o Q  o r * Q  f<\■>y  y-Q p - y

U  —  U i M l v i .a warn respect to tars particular!
cor; g rescional oro v it ion

THE COURT i-ii

would like to respond wnat a
--wo 0.0 oJ-cvliti :ho Court. This Cotr

:arcful manner. From the plaintiffs’ point of view it 

•een av/fully slow because this Court's decision that the

- oci to >.ui
>* Ô VJ/.Y- 1 ̂  *.< O C,- 1 v\ O  £-.~-> i

I thin}

fOc.. j_ «

l h r  ■ re a w  / /a <p. •

-• if J

o::

c:io nv.rru>Gr of

t:o r.rr-r
1 0 7 o



■ 1» j’i:!
r \ ||h / H L.1 ixX) O  O' v

«e could look at stay applications filed ad

s or i a turn, bvy every count
4-V 
w  i • v f ' er.genc.or trying to

in the case. How much delay can 

iplcnent the integration plan after

this Court's order of September, 1971? Mr. Krasi s '- s  \ j -f-1 t

motion in a timely fashion and I think wisely decided no

"co cnOh~viCiO any rciG -onco to the legislation which I think

the President indicated the attorney general doesn't think 

is applicable to this case. .

At that title Mr. Saxton and others indicate 

ng ciiJOU’C 1 1 1  j.ii'M ci mobcoc cor a sic civ * c o -lj, f 

boon .sometime since the Court's order

rev v:r f  \ >•'-m

.at this coin

evorveno has had .oleatv of time to file a motion for st

They say sometime in the future they are going to file anothcl 

I don't know whether Mr. host _

" ' 1 Mr, Ccndit v.rill try and.

doj. i cur i cr­

one , tne-n 1 a  c. n. r\ ’

auiixuu i:r will trv.

going to trie |I
_ f that ie'Ii!don't imm/ what motions they

hove in mind but 1 hardly think anv of those applications

u.na at $c ■tori for cieiav.

my x
>,.... • cO’Jv •

to

ero. not met a 

the President

o .





1 P o KJL O  -J

~  —  x . J.'U . - ' h n ̂  _joytv i_.OA-/w  . c-a o tu , o u i a - , c

State Super!ntendont of 'ublic Ins true u -L O A * i i  c~S £> of

ta '-*• »t~ -i. d  < . u  ̂  IZ-. i 11

* ' iii a very
significant pararrarh which —- j ■ *'—  u . c k w> c y ci.v, dCj- t ' - * y a o x .  * * x o

-opc-it. no says, "even though this document lists a err cot 

rrany unresolved questions, given the proper author!tv, court 

rulings, legislation not 

each of the issues listed can be

curications end financing authorisation,

It's edify inn-

report or that nature I don11

C. •*-— - •—- • x C, / ■ J _ ;a on

proOj.c m  ovcnt.mll'

resolved."

to receive a public official's 

know Dr. Porter except from 

:a stand in the main part of the 

respect for him because he realism 

ro resolved somehow and those
>•..0 - T, 1 no reserved.

i am much encouraged by the way the panel hat
, . . . ' ' jproceeded vita tnorr task« I'hcy made much more rapid progress i.- * ' i• ‘ ‘ !

p a . Ox.l^Lh'Ct; O i. r U C C f i o  S  J - i l  ’LiXC Xl JLXX i j  cl j.. i O t l t l i  Cl uOinc- given much

xnm i or
had really hoped for and expected. Again I thank I

1 > A r p  t- ~t  n-*.. - i j  c_; JL

oth in your orocenhoiion . Mr, k*;..

ii. ftie renin

.v %j  t L  C  J. l.

r% y, n* •U -i
T> *-o

j.j O , : j u  5 t  -.O v  tv . u  C t- JL:

i * C*.n ;U. o'.nu O ’ .c



/-%
w

— ___________ _ ,< _ -u  i . _  _____ . . ,  ,  . ,  .  .  _ .. '** “'"'w‘' --- ^  uoiiOiu uiu Michigan. constitution
and statutes. ” He „• ̂  . ' , , . . •. ^..wwajiy , it. nusr be oovrous what
he J‘orc-?ot. “ tIierc is a-so the 'United States Constitution.

• 1 suspect/ and like other state officers and

-/ 1 not only’took an oath to

:nto of Michigan but also the Con-

ai. x nave- o.one in the p 

the Constitution of the 

stitution of the United 

that that tc

' .-Jx s J. )-

.uo. bor.ienow I

points but hdvi; «

uonee preceuence ana on that score 

United States Supreme Court wi 

on that point j third; I

You gentlemen who have 

to the action suggested by the panel-toll

v/e nave yet unresolved and all or thr*

■ Vi p “T .•i;t -L C-tJa..

X licivo
pornaps not on othe

no of all of tin
nr, r . • i —  1 T ’--- —  i ti. Ju m  i c j  “J t

must surmount if ws are tno gou -co tno goal line or the finish;

randful of that and Dr. Porter g a m  nan cone a

O w e . ~*•~ 0-i" onarin.i.ng m o  many problems we are goincr to

. a v/'o are oxng to mai 

r cg a 11 o;i o a nor to
m o w e n t  ahead

nn vo ordered
got to move with din v. t

On e o;

u :a . e i r .b v .

: i i i; - o: arc .t



u

'h

18C7

aro fairly^goccl, :,ro:,»t they, or at lez ■rr r» >, -  *- f  , v *w . . u u  jl u l .

on the finding of segregation in the City .of 

Detroit and then v/c will ha\ivo to deoegregate... Detroit at *>»> £_4 O

recollection of the evidornice an tms case with respect to 

's"‘e traneportat2.cn needs, if we desegre^

350 buses. If wo order 295

tr: Detroit alone

it panel we will29e as suggested by

.till be short of the number that they thought, the expert 

thought would bo needed to do the

I don't know that 

proposition advanced by Mr. Lucas

ra Detroit alone.

'cars supports in fact the 

at an earlier date. He
said ho thought perhaps the ■sr an sport at x on needs in order t 

implement a desegregation plan for the metropolitan area might 

De ■LOGr-' ucmanamg than it v/e desegregated the public schools 

or tne City of Detroit alone.

r r ~ ,  -  1 O i

VJ :an understand your position, Hr.

w:

Certainly tne suggestion or 235 and the evident 

!3Q would indicate that there is some support for thaj.iI
rasrcJty an out your 

nd those having to do especially 

n m u  -meter or handling vouchors of various 

do with fiscal affair:-:.

c on c a r n ab on t s t a te or r relax:

non having-

C' ~

I aon71 knov; vhothor yen caro to a
;rion in that regard or not. If the Court should orde
ue to a nr no: on i Ti voa

r v/ou.i- n

[



o o o •L O O

you rather not bo heard on that.

HR. RRASICKY: I think for the moment I would

prefer not to be heard. I would have to check with my clients

THE COURT: All right. Hr. Lucas.

’ . HR. LUCAS: The statute which deals to some

extent with this particular problem which calls for the, it 

refers to the state school aid fund and other reimbursable 

funds from the State Department of Education and it's 358.635
i t o o  r> v\ w <*’ Ti t r r* e. ̂  o  u y r?sets rortn certa. 

instruction shall oreoare a statement of

uperintendent of pub;

count to .oc

ributed in such installments under the provisions of this

to the schoolX CUSUICtes of each county r and shall deliver

the same to the state treasurer, v?ho shall thereupon draw 

his warrant in favor of the treasurer of each county for the 

amount payable to such county.

I think it would be proper and withir. the 

Court's discretion to add Hr. Green the State Treasurer, but

r.av net be necessary srnco cone rail' I r s n ur s or, e n t

no near to d o r.'imstorra. V' *'} n> ■H X.'r,i . \ ■ ; i* > - . . , • i f •

s $ a I ® i Asl- » Krasieky may differ with nut on that end

I know ;iOis ro ccr-csrn see.uc aocs ■.■.x

»- X ’.v}.,. * t.’ '— _ .. sue co s in a n ; C UO.LxVS;



I ■ ■ .

Dv,-Y

t .?

iccucs his warrant to the treasurer of the local district.

2IR. KRASICKY: There are several oth< U cl u K
una.c are applicable. In order, to make sure there is a check 

and balance on payments from the treasury under the old

constitution we have m e  auditor general and ho had to acorov-
all of ^ AVt i.'Ut ,yments before they were made b\

Tnat office nas been abolished and those duties ar 

Department of Administration. '

When Dr. Porter makes■a certification tin

the treasurer.

,t so
rauruch money should be paid cut of this fund the•a Department os

mrainro oration nas to make two determinations * one, is there 

an appropriation for it and is this a lawful purpose under 

its then the treasurer issues his warrant. ■

J- tat as raid you are jumping at a conclusion
that is unsound.

w j i .; * J .  i. t-/. l ' j - '  W  »-> U-. t ,  J ,  v.* i  i

tuo pj.ainuif so saQuid move at this time to add 
• .*.« miiicon Green as a party clef cnciant • your

TLT, COURT: Do you presently have under the

u3 Cons troutnou the state controller? Uho is the head?

KmUIChY: Ur. Hcttigcr.
COURT: that "is; his position?

-;jr



■ THE COURT: All requisitions and requests for

payment for services that are good have first to go through 

the administrative office? .

MR. KRASICKY: Dr. '

cation then. it gees to the Dopartne:

their review■ and then it go os to th-

that is the procedure.

THE COURT: They us

% ^  c  •*— 1 -» /*% -v* f  *■} 0“ 1 ~

the treasurer ror payment,

.er.
MR. KRASICRY: They nay have at one tine.

THE COURT: Ho v/as the head of the Depart:

of Administration.

ar o und there.

MR. KRASICKY: That office was abolished.

THE COURT; This was years ago when I was

MR. KRASICKY: We have gone through executive
!l•1|i
jj roorgani cation. They have gott an rid of sore . , „ |GI11C03 cl no,

1ij|j
!i

orca ted net ones. 1

ij
ji TIE COURT: Toll ne in very r̂..rn “) n r- r, r t; 1 T . *1"  ̂ -' / -- ■

I sold a car to the State ©£ ntetJ.c/an as sn huto t o w h e t  

id I have to do to got part tor it?v;cu.

;o v/ou ! 1 G V  G U O i T. cl G G O *1 G G.

person you sold the car 

the person that autho: 
rhft to • Tonld nah'

7: G G



S.I jSv*A~!«* . . - w „  ivU-tn t'irv-.VA

"A
J

O k

1891

out a voucher signifying t h e y  authorised the purchase end

V'"rr*  C i. —> s

for their review and 

apprcpriatic

they ware encumbering a certain account fcr the r 

form then v/oulcl go to the Department of Administration

: it were approved and there ic. an' •

to pay for such a purchase and buy this— I also;• ■* |
money within it, that it has not been exhausted;,

and secondly, that the purchase of the automobile was lawful

under the powers given to a particular agency, upon the ap 

proval of the Department of Administration the treasurer will 

issue his warrant.

That is the procedure. -

CQo.vT: j~c there- no other \iay tnc state

officer or state department head can accruiro goods or services?

vrnren are

f-: 1 clCrlT’

KR.ASICivY: No, except that they

THE COURT.♦ It has boon done.

DR. KRASICKY: No. lie have petty cash, accounts

Ever hear of Attorney General

MR. KRASICKY: Yes, I have hoard of Attorney

THE COURT: Were vou aware

/ J -  v i  1  e .  f t  v >  t  V -  t .  »



/ \ 
O J . THE COURT: You have visited the a-

general's office?

MR. KRASICRY: I rnave been there the last
17 year:

CHE COURT: x moan

MR. Kiel SI CRY: Yea. I
the main office.

e i—O iiX?u »
THE COURT: The carpeting and all of tin

furniture in there was ordered by then Attorney General Eugene

wrsnout all of this rigamarcl. 

MR. KPASICKY: -le did?

inc. C-OJRT: los, and it vac nai— , ^ ,  ,- i  <  _ .
jL O j

Y &  . "rpjh Q  y  r>hyr . y*■s ~ »vR i\ X • J .  . A ■ersonallv noi • c. iT -2 O J

THE COURT: I rn nor saying that is the
eurse of everts.

VO “ !f̂*i p • E o t .  t  O -X iu X Cj i'i L. tC IdO Cj vy fj jj ‘cllO C O —

issued its order to the Detroit ooaru and r-! v.e act one onto
sn-ar. as I understand if navmont is 

Mr. Kraoickv responds to the c.-t-i.  —  — O. W .. o  w C .  *  V-

made upon delivery 

that ho thinks Mr. Green
or perhaps 

they could
tno ciommi5:trntivc people are necessary parties 

Cent time without delaying matters.i'o cave a

\-L\?.(; o eve. con.

• *■• — - • icur }Ionor . \ V» c, C V' 011 c!» ' 7-* £ -O
• n  . V  1 » -r.g c.cout making the di cburccmont from



'— ■— Suti^G Scncol hid Fund, we bc^ar. a rov/ schco 1 . K  J .  7  0/ ,“• -r

I.'ra not sure there iis any money appropriated by the
latere or any loot from last ver :nc year began July let.
n dealing with school districtcs I understand there has bee

no acsiynation for the current ficca ■l year into the School 
mo. Fund. You night bo drawing on a dry fund.

HP.. KltlCICPY: The legislature cna etc a c
school aid bill for the -L -L .b> C-cal year ’72-73.

HK COURT: Is that the bill that irivoxv ec
»one $600-nillion?

KR. KPRSICKY: I believe so. T/.c

q o -/6j..iui wO a:;provc tne bill has not expired,

has not been enacted into la;

period for 

e r a -  will
sene printing problem so it I

b c  i iic.s bran etiacoou by t~] *.r.

topee.noor cortainly
legislature and presumably by 

it would bn the law, if not long before, 

will get together v/it
P r~ ■>a ' -i v. , , . .  . . . 'o.i i.Qv/. t-ti, •_ unite

i
care or unis natter of Il

you gentlemen. I like the suggestion the panel -notice to

bare .tell their opposite 

is any action
nu.noors , unerr ccuno . '..iKli­

en so tar 

will keen

r ; i > .  -.a  K

. i c rr» x n t o t~ ted o t d.oo porhapo vrhat
x u r at; o r y»ro o o a d ̂

plaintiff in this

need to he

ijith TW^ 1~1 tc”> T'y *. y-.. , -f, . - ,, . ̂ ̂ J-7̂-

ecco m a y •take an order roouiriag the Do



ioo/

Board of Education to ourchr.sc 295 tr .-iOi't unrr.s 1 0 ;

r~x

use in the fall of 1972, that is this coining school year.

The details, of course, will have to be worked out and I an

siire with the help of the penal and particuarly Mr. Wagner that
|

,  _ . . im o  ouior avenues or possible use of transportation wxll bo ; 

explored as I am informed it is presently being done including

the possibility that the DSR nay be vciry in vie coti in cjxvx n cr

help becauso they need help.

rnay bo of mutual benefit for thkj tC
coni-3 xnto olav ^  r ? :O* <• i. -i. O  t-> . a and help out with the school

transportstaon needs

The order may further provide the State of 

Michigan shall pay for the transportation unite.

Ku. LUCAS: That would be the state defendants?
p,*>TYr..7 . You may draft an order and

Ciraft it in the nemo of the Court, sun spenta, adding the State
<Pv.a,-> 511

31X3 C3 C t~-

Ox Michigan as a party defendant in 

into problems in connection with

• Let no taka a short inventory. Motions: What

v;e • xi *'i/3 o*':'*.r t,c;‘ c* 1 "1 1 nc ~̂~y t*>• *̂3 3 ■* d /̂  y

Y.t' ‘'-'I 11C . X J JLi.
3  *1* ~ i ' 's ;g v~ p"’ * r* t * ws •)- g rt ~~v -»■*-.— V- J_ Vw .. *-• i. *- ti ...» . n O  ci.** :ountv



189 5

Citizen's notion for 51(b). yG 1 \j.. ,,»<- tiexxveroci our men
v'Oib u tnrs H o m i n g  or this afternoon, t clon't thw’nk

Court has V- r> r*  tit* time

been ashed to bring
■ai Kelley ’ 3 le;ttor

orter that he is to

it \ * l

Anere x o r i e  neuter
nrvh«t s n a o n . In Attorney

:o Dr. Porerof July 6, x n x ns t ru c t i na

.e costs of the

‘*is tiCiVxCC tiiat dS any oaymeni

w *"u CUi~ should. no submitted to the Court to determine if
they should bo paid.

m at sc-oi.is to be undiiCii-.j.y DuraonGoihe on tli-c
Court unless ° is a dispute as to who the r or not the cc
0.1*10. S O  i ' O X t l h  3 X 0  ‘ " ftr> g* -

w . x  ^ , unci. VtOUj-G. .s.stoJ.y ci O J. Cl "•r o s WC G dh,

I knot' for a fact some of the panel members
- * av ■-i 5. n c ucc cr c ci s v o 3 '*“*n -h ■»* m 7  ̂  .-> .*? ^ ̂  ̂ ♦- - ox- jxOwvCc expenses not to

The matter o.i taviv>r>n .

:o it, I would 

that Dr. Porter can cro

mention cotapensation for their time 

°~ cluc and °;;ir‘g obligations is of some urgency. Unless the

suggest m a t  the Court advise counsel

uhcaa and pay those unless there is a dispute between Dr. 

POrtor and a panel number.

tit: COUKT ; I would third

s;: o u I d 1 '■ e t; i o o n d o f t! o n d 11 o r . 

i»o V;C'.ncio .l ucc,iccr r>He'?v,oirii n'ov" *1 /- -••- cm. / . l i o a * . !

a ciepute or i. 

;de that is •



i p o r iOv'O

oV J

something else but certainly Dr. Per ton 

wasting State ;;’.onov.
isn ‘ u crotag 'to oe

On the other hand, if panel members have out- 

o -"poc.vct or otncrwise surrcroc. unsocial burdens tliov cuoiit

to be made v/hole. I would rather, unle so the* .s a dispute,
those natters not be called to ratr n t- - • r» nention.

2th. LUCAS: Thank you.

THE COUJ;T: ;4r. Rounel1.
?<d Tjerv-r t • -1 ■* 4— v''"] n c n  T-i >% *• s.-» -i- r ■» -*>, v- ■

X n t*«a d'' '• i a F v *»«-*■ *  *  ■—  W  -U * 4 1 .  I Lucas fuj-no rand vr.i. Wg have found cone very 
interesting language in Professor hoorah 

on federa1 j urisdietion 

Court and, therefore, wc

oour a within 40 hours that will make Professor 2-Ioox

ti 4 > u *. a ti u n o ti

hat X think will bo helpful to the 

expect to submit -a memorandum to the

view

available on whether or not this Court night consider issuing
I

a certificate under 54(b) or in the alternative or simultane­
ously under 1292(b).

tain ro-esiph&sise to the Court thru ho

wtsl. the opportunity to have appellate rov.iew on the basic

in cue cv

a notropol itan ror.odv

.1 taut our position is that wc 
tsity for remedy, that: there bo 

a n d  so v/c will make our views hero to the

i lours.



<> J

r \i • i

1G97

»T'r;r' .

*. -w*\ • it\j, \** \ d  J . L̂ x x

rr--- -- • „ 1.. .+ c ;^  u. .

I would like to renew oui
notion for a stay of th1:0 orccr tho Court ha:

TIi2 COUkT : x just denied

•'■ r-r +-oct granted.

■/ fust a rev,’ ca
ago x denied it.

IxFtidrChi: x understand but tho Cove
entered today subject to entry of writing toat the State
pay for 295 buses. In order for us to exhaust ou 

review it is required we ask you for
ir appclxate 

a stay and I would renew
— h a :„o Liox wx til out rec1 j-., resy on m e

oriefs th-at we filed with 

consideration and for the Court 

night pursue othc-r renodiec.

ne Court that we ask for iro.iedia.te 

to grant it or deny it so we

you haven’t had tine toTHE COURT: Perhaps

urn,: it all out in terns that I an interested in at the 

px-coont c.i«.iO because xt iust haooenod, b”t t ,— ..1

tlvat your notion to stay io not in the

lx other words, let no nu 

-<-C'c tout 1 have now* ordered 

0 0e oruorou by the Detroit

nature of an appeal? 

• h bluntly: Do you consider the
X' c»,.j id

CUX'.i

xuv.oo-, no you consider that to bo in 

54 (b) or 129 2 (b) ? . :

oy w.ia Detroit Board, 

so be paid for by the

.on. about 1 2 9 (b) oscause I ehink wo h m  e - : y .-w .. •.•



o

i i- ,n r< d M’ n . - ' n v *  /-s J -j i*O C. Upprcpnat.a /:orC ♦
j.:io purpose of lesd Vo) is to resolve a contro 11 inn oi -X on
c£ lav/ that will materially advance 

of the litigation.

There as a Sixth Circuit case,

the ultimata termination

Krause v hoard
of County Road Comiocicnars, 364 F. 2d 319, war Cxi marc;

is to be used only in exceptional cases where an

intermediate aopcal may avoid orotraccea ana croonsiv ho i —

cation. I would also cite U, . v toodbury, 253 F. 2d, 784,

in which the court examined the legislative history of this 

u.:u i>a.id / >} was in ten uo a primarily as a means

of expediting litigation by permitting appellate consideration

during the corlv s------ /--• ?

c u Tj  i u cl 1 1 G  r  > 1 cl .'i j j  O O il  C O In p i c  V. f2

Nov; it's true the Court of appeals made

c b. v i ̂ c ) t) o i. w o ci r 'm c 71 o o c i- u d. j„ v t.mm c u
cue rciGi’Gnee to 

til at the. Court hac
resolvoo c;ontro 11 i.nq s or Sc pie;
•h *7 -1474- * / r ̂ / c , d idn’t ongag o
opinion un til

Questions or fact and lav;

in a metropolitan rated'
CC,: C ':V- v-i /h 4’n ,-‘pw *> -* * f )■■■< r' -f-’ » -v

.non!

U.*%V7 j ’̂7 II*^* C*c U O O 1 ’ *> r** *•» «•■♦- )ro5(iG that the
« .v-.n J. f C-v'.-v-

(r>._„ 7 4 ̂  ,,

jl; )iic;C ' ; J 'N



1399

an injunctive order v.’hieh ii . 1 . , '>1 ^  m u  . - 14 th orclc
requires us to pay costs of the oar f .'. ;• r> < • 0 SI L i 3- C  kJ C d  Is  c-O

provide in-servico training of teacher 

counselors and is an appealable order.
c c j.i ici t*o n i i ,  c  blacn

T-r.-s o. v-e are asking the' Com o  UCi \

frii3 COURT: lory don't you go to the* Court o.
Appeals and ask them for a stay? . . .

1-th. KPJkSICKY: .1 think under the rules v/o arc 

required to ask you first and this is why v/e would ask you t

proceed to the Court of A on calc-i c o . c.,—~~ * x i t oO v < m v

! TUB COURT: Of course, v/ho i -i. c.\. s i ked you whet
.my I• i 1

■ . ■ you thought t, m s  order v/ould au alify under 1222 (b) it wasn't

j because I theught it would, T T" xe e b  ̂v? 'T ,'■» I theught you had
i1
i
|

real question •p-.V'W-s-.- 1 coots - i  . 1  d, ̂ w   ̂,-J } >vU"C you didn1t take advantage of
it as I is, I iit '.nine wuon n. said *d.le t u unaor
ovadeuce in tnis case and the law as outlined by the Suarone 

C'-1 i~ i n\'jx no recourse sire to go to a r.otrouoiitan u*i~'U t 

cnougnu you had a controlling issue of 

with me and that is why i ashed you when 

tUi-vut v/c\s a u T i  orat.r v.t'ich vou ecu3d

law. You don't agree

you tnougat ram

ike to.
: o o a

*> ■' i  * 1 L- Cv Jh m C v- id ..■>

cO Court except ;tn the lan^vaxa uecd

tin you caneo unythirva in order



V

2.9 00

to achieve tne joo including coaling with school district

Tney said that in ‘to 

never said otherwise but they'never have ha

S r : - '  rpV -  4. -* v/nat x on relying on and uney

school case

such as this where an order for metropolitan desegregation

I'ilQ issue.

a controlling issue of lav/

t know v/hat is but you don't

cen no action on it.. That is you:have 1 -v -~

no, at least you

i'm not

iggccting othorc/ico.

If there is nothing else I art going to tab

leconc 1 nvenuery cr ran etc: :OCt I V’.lll

get some others which have been promised and then v/c v;il 

schedule a hearing an soon as I can got to it.

sir. Sax
\ V  r~> c  tv V ' T h ' V T  -  t  V » 1  -J -r T 7, 7 -  -t- h  ^  -■* ~  ji i  >'. * O i - c . i ' / h j  • _L v d  i  i*. • n t h  c  X i l  Ci_i.Ccti

iri-ona to i:ie an appl3.cat.xon ror C l h> C- U  C . i Ct j. coil *c wane

u' i.h— c'. ot> uO loco a 10 t of olcoo v/hothcr ve arc coinc m  CO _U V-

eerietun. 'do. v/ill all ioin together. It will be filed in 42

hours. no c m  aevi./O trc curt last woeh that wc wanted to
A1!:?.'*. § s(* VV 5 .as =** 1 : ;f 4 \'-~f A 5 f \* %fo* »  4' ? '■ f * .« -s * ^ c rl ? ^   ̂ I1t-i- t« W U4 i iss-..̂  Lijss it* *;? a>~ d s ; i i i  C j v  4* i i j i  * a %-ia O * v j i j  * i«'&> A. W i » 9 V ‘cs Cu *ie %.»i s fet.

x t v*a.$ nocesi.ca.V7 to mur.aauo tne court ■. I U .V X -*-a.. th X ■
Ui '.O o

V’ill be jo 1 of the intore miner school dir





J-- tv- 
$■

1902

*nIO h} O s 2 ■*" ^ ’u» b +-l wvv« CIO »

rnrTxr» /'■'*/•'▼ ŷ \cr: r-i" . . . _ .CuoAi: Tnc r o n o n  is earned,

MK. KRASICKY: Thank you.

THE COURT: With.that -nank you very much one
again net r;.o e:-;pm i -y appreciation to the panel f<
.-■orK they are doing.j - J~ aiu m g n l y  giciscd at

■ U
tiie progress 

which you are discharging
your obligations. Thank you, gentlar.cn. Men culpa - the 

~aaiu 15 rr'inG tnat y°'a didn't get core timely notice about

v;ill bo g recess



> -i i j. il, OF MICMJCMN)
! COUNTY OF WAY!-;■JE }

- / Donala n, Miller, Official Court Reporter, 

cererry teat I .reported in shorthand the proceedings 

had in the within-entitled cause before Honorable Stephen J.

Soth' Cnitod St~ta!} District Judge, at Detroit, Michigan on
denary, Jury is, 1572, cc— anting at 2:00 Pil, and that tire 

foregoing it a full, true and correct tranocrigt of By 

shorthand notes tafcen at said tiiae and olace.

Detroit, Michigan

DC toe: July 11, 1972