Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 2

Public Court Documents
January 15, 1965

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  • Brief Collection, LDF Court Filings. Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 2, 1965. 292a9b54-ba9a-ee11-be36-6045bdeb8873. LDF Archives, Thurgood Marshall Institute. https://ldfrecollection.org/archives/archives-search/archives-item/44ba80b7-6a6b-460c-8e19-e75e16cb0c3c/lankford-v-schmidt-transcript-of-proceedings-vol-2. Accessed July 12, 2025.

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    IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND 

SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al. :

vs. : Civil No. 16080

BERNARD j, SCHMIDT > ^ commissioner 
of Police of Baltimore City. :

January 15, 1965

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 
Volume 3.

(Page 129 to page 275 )

Francis T. Owens 
Official Reporter 
514 Post Office Bldg. 
Baltimore 2, Maryland



129

i
•) I N D E X

:{ Witness Direct Cro&a Redirect Reeroas
4 Lucinu& ?• Wallace ijx 1 *2 . 149

f5 nartna h, ius»,on w 160 163 16 5

yL Barbara Floyd 167 W 176 177
177

(
Harrletta Wallace 179 186 187 19 0

George J. Floyd 19 2 197 205 206
206 207

10 Rita Mies 207
11 Baggie Bhepperb 213 227
12 Florence Snowden 235 247
18 Elizabeth Wallace 255 263 265

14 Dorothy Barrick 267 271

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND

SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et a1.

V8 .

BERNARD J. SCHMIDT, as COMMISSIONER 
of POLICE of BALTIMORE CITY

Civil No. 16080

Baltimore, Maryland 
Friday, January 15, 1965

The above-entitled matter was resumed for 

hearing before His Honor, Roszel C. Thomsen, Chief Judge.

A P P E A R A N C E S

(As heretofore noted.)



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MR« NA3RIT: Mrs* Lucinda Wallace, please,
(hereupon, Lucinda Patricia Wallace was called to 

the stand and sworn aa a witness and, having been first duly 
sworn, was examined and testified as follows*)

THE CLERK: State your name for the record, pl«ase7
THE WITNESS* Lucinda Patricia Wallace,
THE CLERK: Lucinda Patricia Wallace?
THE WITNESS* Yes,
THE CLERK* Take the stand,
THE COURT: Miss or Mrs?
THE WITNESS* Mias,

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT*

Q Miss Wallace, where do you live?
A I live at ?408 Huron Street in the City of Baltimore 

in an area called Mt. Winans,
Q And who lives in that house with you?
A Well, the home is owned by my mother and my father, 

Mr. Harry Wallace, Mrs. Elizabeth Wallace, I have a brother 
whdk throe and a half years old, a sister sixteen years old.

Q What is her nano?
A Sharon Wallace, Harrietts Wallace la twenty one,
Q She is your sister?
A Yea, My aunt, ray mother’s sister, Mrs, Hattie 

Eurley, Mr, Clarence Burley.

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Q Are you employed and where?
A Yes, I am, for the Department of Education In the 

City of Baltimore as a teacher in the Elementary Echoed 116.
THE COURT* how olo are you?
THE WITNESS* Twenty nine ana ten months,

BY MR. MERIT*
Q, Do you recall the evening of December 30, 1964?
A Yes, I do,
Q Describe for us briefly what you did early that 

evening, where you were?
A Weil, I was none, i naa invited three youngsters, 

teenagers, who had worked wltn me in my Vacation Bible School 
to share the Christmas spirit with us, and some friends, two 
friends from the city, Mrs. Dorothy Barrick and Mr. Loralnne 
Philips were also there.

Q, What does Mrs. Barrick do?
A Mrs. Barreti is a counselor, guidance counselor at 

School 130. Mrs, Phlixps is a ttacher in the City of Eaitlmoxje 
also.

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evening?
A
Q
A

All right, go ahead. Were they at your home that

Yes, they were all there.
And what were you doing?
My little brother and my two sisters, whom I have

already mentioned, my aunt, and my uncle was in bed, we watchejd

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Shindig0

Q Where was your mother?
A Hy mother was at the snop which is about four i.oora

from tne nousc.
4 t'uia u jiOulU OX OXiup 2
A iieauty snop.
<4 Ana she operates that?
a
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XUS, She uOttB.
Mhure .■ do your x either•

A suaoy was the barber shop* 
Tikb wOifiVxi iio wau whure?

til «4» • lklrUox* •
3Y i-Ei. NABRIXs

<4 Hi* right, t»o aheua and describe what, you were do: 
shat evening;

« hull, - huu set up some cookies and Coke and cand; 
ana wnat not to cat.

4 how, what aid thus group do there that evening?
A v.eli, wo watchea bhinaig. After watohixxg Shindig

they asked ms. to show them tome Glides which I had taken in 
Hawaii during the summer. I had 3et up the tray which holds 
thirty slides, I nua shown thirty slides, I was refilling the
tray.

4 About what time was this?

A I think it was about nine o'clock, maybe nine flfte
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I'm not too sure,
I had refilled the tray and X had shown about two 

or three slides and we talked about them and 1  saw a light 
flash to and fro across the uinlng room wall, I thought that

J
maybe It was a car coming down tne nill because there is a 
hill that faces an alley that faces our house, but It Kept 
moving and harrletta or someone 3aid, It looks like a search 
light or something* do 1 Jumpea up from the chair ana I pull- 
ed back the drapes and looked out of the front window*

Wnen 1 looked out of tne wincow 1 saw, oh, I con't 
know, six or seven policemen lined across our front fence with 
rifles, or long guns, whatever thay were, pointed towards the 
house and I said, tty Gou, what have we done, what do they want 
with us? Ana I x&n to the aoor, Harrietts ran behind me, Shar 
was with me, also, I opened the door*

s\  Q What door was that?
A It was the side door* We have a side entrance, 

front entrance and back entrance, two back entrances*
I opened the door first, Sharon was standing on the 

steps ’which are directly facing the side door, Harrietts was 
standing at the rail to my right of the steps, and as I openec 
the door there was a policeman there with a rifle, a long gun, 
In his hand, and he had the storm door open*

So I said, well, what's wrong, what have wo done,
what do you want? He said, the Wallaces live here? 1 said,

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Kr. Harry Wallace lives here, that’s ray father. So he says, 
la this 2408 Huron Street? And I said, yes, it is. And he sa 
well, move back and I moved back up on the steps and he came 
in and he pushed the door open.

Q What steps are these?
A These are the sloe steps going up to the second flo 

X moved back up on the steps. One policeman came behind 
him came two more and they proceeded to the living room,

he Bald, where are the men in the house, how many 
men in the house, where are they, who are they? So I said, my 
father —  I don't know, I said, I have some young men here. So 
he went to the back room Bitting room and then X followed him 
and X tried to name and he said, well, what are their names?
I tried to name them, I dicin't even see the kids, they have ai:. 
moved from where they had been sitting. They were sitting in 
the dining room, I couldn't even think of their names.

So then X said, well, what do you want? So he said, 
well, we got a call. I said, what kind of call? He said, we 
have to search the house.

At this tine one of the policemen had started up th« 
steps and Harrietts said, wait a minute, my father is asleep. 
She thought that daddy was asleep because he has to be to work 
at eleven o'clock and he usually sleeps until ten.

Q Did you observe anything at the front door?
A Well, policemen came in the front door, about three

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or four of them came In the front door.

Q, Did you go anywhere after this point that the polio 

started the search?

A Well* yes, X did.
Q What did you do?
A I ourneu un the hall light and I went upstairs and 

took him into the front bedroom, which is my aunt’s bedroom, 
and my uncle was in bed asleep, do he said, who is this?
And I said, that is my aunt's husband. So ho pulled the cover 
back from his face ana he shined a light in nis face and he 
looked underneath the bod.

Then -it* said, well —  he went through the other roci 
chrougn my room. There is no hallway, one room enters Into thi 
other room.

Th- door bulges between my room end the childrens* 
room because clothes are hanging behind the door. We have two 
closets.

He said, who is behind the door? I said, no one Is 

behind the door, I said, they’re Just clothes. So 1 pushed the 

door back and then I pulleu the clothes back and I said, see.

And then he went through the childrens' room and 

back in mother's room and looked in the closets and under the 

bed and came back through the childrens' room and looked under 
the bed.

At that time I looked out of the back window, the
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childrens8 back window, and I saw policemen, about six or seve 

or eight, Z don't know how many, lined across the back bence 
with rifles pointed toward the house.

While i was in mother's room I kept asking, well, 
what is wrong, what have we uone, what do you want with us? 
And he said —  I was sitting on mother's dresser and he said, 
well, you know the Veney brothers ? And I 3ala, no* I 3aid, 
I've heal’d about chem on television, on the radio and read 
about them in the newspapers. He said, you don't know them 
personally? I said, no.

Then he proceeded down the stairs,
<4 Did you have any other conversation with him up­

stairs at that pojait?
A Ho, just that this is a big house.
Q Did you as* him any questions?
A I asked him what had been done, what did they want 

with us.
I asked him what kind of a call they had gotten, he 

said they had gotten this call and I said what kind of call.
He said they had gotten this anonymous call that the Veney 
brothers were hiding out in our house, and I said, we don't, 
you know, even know them.

Q Go ahead.
A He came down the steps ahead of me and got half way

down the steps and dropped on the steps. 113



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Who did?

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Q Who did?
A 1 did, I Just dropped on the steps, I sat.

THE COURTS I didn't hear what you said.
BY MR. NABRITs

ft Repeat that for the Judge.
A The policeman preceded me down the steps and I got 

half way down and I just dropped, just fell on the steps.
THE COURT; Did you faint?
THE WITNESSs No, I Just got limp and I just dropp« 

down on the steps, that's all. There was so much going on, 
so much talking ana we got worus here ane words there and therj 
was so much confusion and it swemeu like sc many people in 
the house, so many uniforms and guns, and I don't know.
BY MR. NABRXT*

ft All right, what was the next thing you remember?
A The next thing X remember I was sitting on the stepji 

I can remember mother coming in tne door crying, where are my 
children ... (Witness crying.)

MR. NABRIT* If your Honor please.
MR. SOUSE: If your Honor please, I would move that

we strike that answers
THE COURT; It doesn't seem to be material to any 

issue in the case but the Court is satisfied that this is a 
distressing experience to all these people and there is no 
use repeating it.

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MR,, NABRITj Your Honor, this 1b not tht answer I 
had anticipated eliciting,

The uOUit'i'; I think you have offered evidence that 
is a necessary fact,
BY MK. HAShii:

k Are you acre to describe what happened alter that
now?

a I know mother was air excited, Harrietts and bharon 
both ran to her crying, ana I ran to her and I tried not to 
cry to calm her, to tell ner tn&t everything was all right, th 
we were all right,

Q Were there uny officers there, was there any conver 
eation with them?

A I icr.ow there were officers in tne sitting room and 
officers in the u-ning room ana we finally got —  in the iivin 
room and the uining room ana we finally got mother to sit on 
the sofa in tne living room ana sne was still crying ana the 
officers were trying to say that everything was all right but 
she kept crying arid t«ey wex‘e trying to tell her that they 
had gotton the anonymous call, mother was still crying so one 
of the officers said, well, you tell her, he told me, you tell 
her what happened ana I told Harrietts, i said, go get mother 
some smelling salts or some ammonia or something so that we 
can calm ner so that she doesn't get too excited and doesn't 
get sick. Alia then one of the officers told one of the office:

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to get some smelling salts*
Q Now, how many officers did you see In the home?
A I know three cane In first in the side door and

about four. I suppose, came in the front door*
Q Did you learn any of their names?
A One or two names were called but I can't remember 

any of them* It was during the time they were trying to con­
sole mother, X suppose, and tell her what had happened but I 
was too concerned with mother to even get any names or anythin 

Q Diu you have or overhear any further conversation 
with the officers?

A I can't *.*
Q Well, what happened at this point?
A Well, mother kept crying and the children, the two 

girls kept crying and one of the officers asked me what was mj 
young sister's name, I gave her name, and askeu me what wa3 

Harrietts's name, X gave her name, and he asked for mother's 
name, I gave her name and all of their ages. He asked me how 
many people lived in the house and I couldn't even think about 
how many lived there, X just told him —  I Just started countJj 
them off and telling him who they were, just the children, anc 
how old they were* I Just told him that the children were the 
and how old the children and how many adults were in the home, 

Q Now, these people that you mentioned earlier from
the Bible School, who were they and what are their ages?

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A Darlene McCoy* she's about eighteen or nineteen,
I'm not too sure. She graduated from ...

THE COURT: Well, that is all right# Hew many were
there and how old were they?

THE WITNESS; clarence Moore, who must be about 
seventeen or eighteen.
BY MR. NABRITi

Q There was a third person, who was that?
A There la a third person who is about eighteen or 

nineteen.
Q A boy?
A A boy.
Q Did you go anywhere at this point?
A Well, mother had a customer, she had to see her.
Q Did you go ary where?
A I went outside on the front porch,
Q What did you observe?
A Police cars, and I don't know how many policemen,

I don't know how many people were standing in front of the hoi 
in the yard, coming out of the alley facing the house there 
a big patrol wagon.

Q How long were the police in the house?
A (No response.)
k You don't know?
A Fifteen, twenty, twenty five minutes, I couldn't siy.

house,
wai»

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Q Did you have any other conversation with them when
they left?

A Well, l Just told them that I hoped that they catci; 
or apprehend the Veney brothers but I would hope that they 
didn't terrorize the other people as much aa they had us at 
the time,

Q Were you ever shown any paper by the officers?
A No, no papers at all,
Q Any warrants mentioned?
A No warrants mentioned,

MR, NABRIT: I nave no other questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. BOUSE: 
Q Mias Wallace, on December 30th when you had these 

guests,xwhat time did these guests arrive?
A LetIs see, I thiruc Clarence arrived first, it was 

between seven and seven thirty, I'm not too sure.
What is the other fellow's name? I can't think of 

his name. The otner young gentleman arrived aboud eight, I 
guess.

Q You don't icnow this other man?
A I know id bud I can't think of his name,
Q Haa he ever Deen to your house before?
A Oh, yes. He teaches, he taught Bible School for

me ana deaches in ray Sunday School,



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Had he ever been in your home before?
Yea.
Tat. COURT* Do you hove a record of what his name 

is? It might simplify this.
\HR. NABRxfx I am trying to find it. Your Honor,
THi W l i G l a d d i n g ,  Robert; Robert Gladding,

BY MR, BOUBR*
$ Hac. clarence ever Deen to your nome before?
A On, yes,

Q Now, you say Clarence came first and Robert Gladding 
came next, is snat right?

A Yea,
All rignt, and then wno else came?
.Darlene came with Robert,
She came wltn Robert?
Yes,
All rxghc, and is that ail that was there outside 

of your housemaid?

A No, wuere was hra, BarrxcK from the city,
Q What time did she arrive?
A Wexx, Mrs, Barrio* had been there because she had 

gotten ner nair done,

Q So she had been in the house sometime?
A Yes,

THH COURT* How do you spell that name?

<4
A

Q
A
k



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A Ana there was a Mrs. i*hilips,
Q What time aia she arrive?
A Weil, che two of them came togecner.
Q £ihv nau seen there, too?
A Yes.
Q All right, and wno else was there?
A Outside of my househola?
Q Yes, is that all outside of the household?
A That's right, that is all.
Vi how, when Clarence came between seven and seven 

tnirty, did he come in a car or did he come on foot?
A When he was at the door 1 didn't Bee any car. He 

lives two streets from me, within walking distance,
Q He lives within walking distance?
A Yes.
Q how about Robert Gladding and iiarlene?
A They alx live within walking distance.

They all live within walking distance.
Now, when they all arrived it was dark, was it?

A Yes.

Q And the last ones to arrive arrived about eight



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0*0X00** Is that right?
A Yes.
k About what time was it that the police officers

came in the house?V  /
A I'd say oetween 9iA3, 9*30, sometning like that.
k \  9*^p to 9 :j0?
A Somewhere betweexi that time because it took cie abou 

twenty live minute*, 1  don't Knew between fifteen and twenty 
five minutes «/<o shun the first set of slides.

k You had shown the slides?
A I was showing the second set, 1 was on the second

set of slides.

k Anu whan tne police officers came in the front door 
was the front uoor unlocked?

A ho, it was locked, noun doors were locked.
k 1  seo. how, you have testified before that they 

came in the front uoor, diu you let tnem in?

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ho, 1  diu not.
Do you Know whow tney got in the front door? 
one poi^c email went to tne fi*oxit door.
Tiid oodhii nnat was uxxat?
■*■*** hiAit*w; one of the policemen went to the fron1

door.

COURTi I still can't hear you,

UR. NABRITi She said one policeman went to the



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froi^t door.

MR. NABRIT: X had intended to elioit this cvlc
by other witnesses. X just v<ant to say to the Court that this 
witness doesn't have personal knowledge or this.

Thh COURT* Air right, then ii you are going to put 
on another wxonees there xs no use bothering nor*
BY HR. SObbs;

Q You t>axu tnat when you went out into the hall you 
turnou on *he light, is that correct? 

a Yes, the starrway•
<4 rarueu lue .
a ina stairway light*
<4 hov. uaijy rooms are on the i'irst Hoax’ oi your some 

on Huron street?
a rrrst rlouri

H Yes,
A JHVe*
(4 i?ivo, ana there is a kitchen, I suppose, is that

right?
it X v - i-» ©
ii ana were the lights on in the kitchen? 
A 1 can't remember.
Q There is a living room, 1 suppose?
it YeS.

Were the lights on in the living room?



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Z°m quite sure, we had company. I'm quite sure. 

And what room of the house were you in?

I was in the dining room.
\Q \ You were in the dining room and this is where you 

were showing these slides?

A Yea,

Q Were the lights on in the dining room?

A No, \

Q But the lights had been on in the dining room very 

shortly before the first police officers came in, weren*t they

A Very true,

Q, And then just before the police officers came in
the lights were on for a few minutes while you changed the sll|< 

aid then all of a sudden they went off, is that right?

A Pardon me, will you repeat what you Just said?

Q I say the lights were off in the dining room while 

you were Bhowing the first tray of slides

A Yes. \

Q ... and then the lights went on for a very short 
period?

A Yes.

Q And then the lights went off again, is that correct^
A Yes,

Q And the lights were off in the hall, is that correct?

A The stairway, yes, \



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Q And you don't remember whether the lights were on 
anywhere else on the first floor, is that correct?

a There was one in the dining room—  the sitting rooir 
The dining room xs here, ^Indicating), the sitting room is hen 
the kitchen comes through this way, the kitchen, the sitting 
room anu the living room,

k Kow uo you remember that there was a light on in th« 
sitting roan?

a The light on the television.
Q How ao you remember that?
A There xs a lamp there, 1 know it was. toe nad one

hero, we haa that xrght.
4 Do you remember that that was on?
A Yes.
k But that is a very aim light, a television light,

is it?
A ho, it is a lamp.
k Anu. the curtains were drawn, isn't that correct?
A Yes,

k Kow, when your mother came in and you indicated that
she was upset, the police officers did their best to explain 
to her what had happened, that she shouldn't be upset. I thine 
that was your testimony, was it not? v

A Yes, they tried to tell her, yes.
k Ana they tried to be aE helpful as they could, is



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that so?
A Yes.
<4 Ana it is your testimony under oath that when the

police officers left that you said to them that you hoped thej 

didn't terrorize anyone else?

A Well, they might not have been my exact words but—  

well, it may not have been my exact words but I hoped that 

they wouldn't upset everybody, you know, as they had us. I 

don't know whether the word was terrorize or what it was,

Q All right. Well, if you can't remember your pre­

cise language it would be so much more helpful to us if you 

tell us that what you are saying is simply paraphrasing?
A Yes.

(4 how, when the police officers left didn't you,

when you made your statement, didn't they say to you they 
hoped so, too?

A Could have, I don't know.

MR. duUhh: 1 have no further questions.

RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRITi

Q You testified, I think, that there were two occasic 

when a police officer mentioned coming because of an anonymoui 
phone call, is that correct?

THE COURT j There was nothing on cross examination 
on that. Do you have some reason for that?



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MR, NAERITi Yes, I want to know IT that was para­
phrased,

i'at* UoUhi; A H  ribiii*, 
joi HR. HAJSRI1;

^ uu.̂  the ui\xvui‘ ut> tee words* 1 anony mouse phone 
call ? i

A Yw»»,
‘«t hOW Utauij ui&lOS ?
A >—ai — j-.« lAvtbiibj. 1 l> b<-vu wviii u.i«a once in siii. r̂vxnî  soon
v* bescribe the two tsenagwd boys physically?
A Houoi'w is tain,
'it How ta^ .1.
A Acwut b'S> * x &UeSS, •
A -f»ny bp-Uiaj. churacscrissics?
A fill j \« *» ~n «
Q Hustache, scars or anything?
A lvOjp a 10 wUb •

i*k. bOUR'i: *s share a description of the Veneys
in the file?

MR* dO'UUiJ.; If your Honor please, I will attempt tc
get one,

1-ui, i Ihore .̂s a uesox'-.pt*on ox the Veneys
on she bach of ssciv. o* she papers attached to the complaint, 

MR* bOUSih: It os an the back of t h e  warrant,
KR* itUillT t It is oxi the back of the wars ant which



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is part of Exhibit A, I forgot that, I*a sorry, 
m  MR, MBRITx

Q How old is this first young man who you describedV
a moment ago if

A Gladding,
Q Giadaing, what is his age?
A I ‘U say about eighteen or nineteen,
W, His height?
A 5'd” or t>'7’ ,
<i and your best estimate as to his weight?
A I don't know, about 130, I guess. About 130, 3 5, 

He’s very thin,
Q And hib bkin complexion?
A About my complexion,
Q Would you describe that for the
A Medium brown,
Q And the color of his eyes?
A 1  couldn't say,
Q, Color of his hair?
A Black, or dark brown,
Q Short or long?
A Short,
Q Nov/, describe the other young man? What wn3 the 

other one's name?
A Clarence,



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MR. SOUSE: Is there a loot name for Clarence?
THE WITNESS: Moore.

BY MR. NABRITi
Q Hie age as best you can estimate It?
A About seventeen or eighteen, I guess,
Q And his height?
A I guess the two of them were about the same height

but Clarence is heavier.
Q The color of his hair?
A Black.
Q Eyes?

A They‘re dark. I wouldn't know whether they were 
brown or black.

Q Complexion?
A He’s a little darker than I.
Q How was he clothed?

THE COURT: Does the State contend that anybody
thought, t.mt any of the police thought they saw one of these 
men go in there?

MR. NABRITi The police or anyone else?
THE COURT: if we are going to have twenty or thirty

witnesses ;Ln gross without having any idea of what the police 
theory is ;Ln each case, we don't have anything to go by and 
there is a great proliferation of unnecessary evidence.

MR, SOUSE: if your Honor please, as best I under-



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stand It ws are evaluating probable cause. Now, certainly,
V
these two gentlemen going Into this lady's home at night in

this residential nelgnborhood with tne lights going on and ofi
\. ■ ■ ; : ■ anu so forth wouiu have uau^uax circumstance •

liin COUKl; It is not an unusual circumstance for 
people who are snowing home movies, they would turn the lights 
on ana ox. i ♦

oOow^. ho, not m  itself out certainly couplet 
with iitl’ormatj.ĉ i that

Tiio vobiifj 1  con1 1 anew what your- information Is, 
that is the *>oin«. 1  am trying to snorten this thing, we just
can't go aheue taking the best part of an hour for each wltnes 
it seems unnecessary.

how, ir tne plaintiffs will put on enough to prove 
the substance or the e^ae, then there can ot cross examination 
liulteu to tiie i«cts wwicn will sear- on vht point ana then 
viitette people may ixave .u be recalled to clarify things after 
we fine out v<ihat tne odate’s position is. fne State can't 
state rts position In advance, I suppose, but we can go on 
indef initely if j uu try to answer in advance o ver, conceivable 
ground that the wtete might i*avw for going in.

Hn, ihlbRIxi Very well, your Honor. I have no 
further questions*

ifhi tOUivl; l «oiow the police have cars cruising\
around, thirty people or twenty people or ten people In cars

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watching young men walk into a house and lights going on and 
x off and considering that probable cause Tor a raid., I am sure 
they have something more than that*

MR, NABRITs I don't share that confidence. Your 
Honor, but I will ablue uy your ruling, and 1 have no further 
questions of this witness*

THE UbErbu Any further questions?
MR* bOUaE j Ho questions*
THE CLERK t Etand down, please*

(Witness excused*)
MR, NABRITj Mrs, Martha Alston.
(thereupon, Martha M* Alston was called to the star 

and sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was 
examined and testified as follows:)

THB CLER&t dtate your name for the record*
THE WITNESS * Mrs. Martha M, Alston.
THE CLERK: Mrs. Martha M* Alston?
THE WlTNEodj Yes*
THE CLERK: Take the stand, please,

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q That is A-l-s-t-o-n?
A Yes*
Q Where do you live, Mrs. Alston?
A I live at 2202 North Rosedale,



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THE COURTi 2202 North 

THE WITNESS* Rosedale,

BY MR* NABRIXi
W auu vino oo i’ou live there with?
A \ iv huboanu anu I nave Tour ohiloren hut only two 

stay there *
Q, vo you remember the evening oi Monday* January 4,

1965?
A Yea* I do* Monday around about nine o'clock I was 

in my living room with ray huabana, X hau put ray two children 
to bee, and wo wore looking at the television and all ol a 
suddexx it sounded like someboay walked on ray porch. Where I 
live there is Tour houses and tney are joinea, they have woode 
steps that lead to the wooaen porch and when someone walks on 
either side oi* my house sometimes it sounds like they're on ray 
porch *

bo this particular night I got up • 1 don,t navo a
Venetian blind on the front doer but I have a shade and I had
pulled that down, so I went there to peak and I didn't see 
anyone on either porch or ray porch, but out in the street I 
saw a iaan and he wa3 doing this beside a parked car,(indicatir

h He was making a motion with his hand?
A To me it looked like a gun*

Q
A

Go aheau, what else did you see?
Then I went and X sit there and I Bald to ray hus



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I said* to me it looked like a man outside with a gun and he 
didn't pay rae any mind„ So he stayed in the living room to 
look at the T.V. snow.

1  went to my second floor front room where I could 
look uown ana when 1  looKea down there were five cars* four 
small cars wxtn policemen in It and the car inbetween was 
W ML.

lnX COuni s *&a wnat? 
t-m . .̂ uiiaRITi WbAx*.
Inc. Wifhcoo* The car nad on it WSAn-fV. 
oo oj tnen 1  could sec that they actually were 

policemen* ao;ne nad on xeatner Jackets, some naa on bullet 
proof vests over tneir uniform.

do every now enu then tne light would go like that, 
(Indicating.) So X aian‘& bother aoout putting ray light on 
because I wouxan't be able to use* so I left qy light off and 
X stood there and iooitca. oo I was confused. I was wondering 
BY MR, NABRIr;

Q Don't teii wnat you were thinking* Just tell what 
you Baw.

A Ouj what x saw* ail right.
u° uf a suuaen x iicura glass breaking which can' 

from t»ie back.
h Would you repeat that?

Trii. COURT* ohe said she heard glass break* it



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appeared to come from the back.
THE WITNESSi So I went to my back, I couldn’t se< 

anything but X couiu sue my next-door neighbor's light on.
They didn't come into ©, house, they went into my next-door 
neighbor's house, he was at —  both of them were at work,
BY HR, NABRiTi

i. What did you co then?
A to I went buck to my front room to look out to sec 

what wus going cn in the front ana her light oatne on in her 
second floor front room.

Q When you say her, who do you moan?
A Hr a. George Floyd, that is my next-door neighbor.
Q how, who lives next door to you?
AH Mr*. anc Mrs, George Floyd,
Q Wilt, t

•
is their address?

A 2 *0^ North Roseualo Street.
Q Then what happened?
A Well, I come downstairs, on the way coming down

here comes this loud knook on my door. Well, I rushed down,
I opened the door an' I said, What's going on? And they Just 
walked right in, it was eight of them, some in theii Jackets. 
The leader had on a bulletproof vest over his uniform, he 
didn’t have a hat on.

So they said, I ’m searching for the Veney brothers,, 
Q Where were they when they said that?



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A They was In my living room because X told them

they couldn't go any further because they came in Just like 
soldiers and 1 said, what's going on? And they said* we're

searching for the veney brothers, 1  said, searching fox* the 
Veney brothers, x uon't know no Veney brothers.

Well, here, one reached in hlb pocket, got two 
photos and X Iookou at them ana I saia, no, I've never seen 
them before.

hell, who lxveo next door? That's what the office 
said, I sale Ur, anu i-ira, ueox’gc Floyd live next door, hell, 
Just tell them the policemen from the hortheaatem were here, 
tell them to call down to denti'al.

They went right out,
Q Did you later tiiat evening see either of your 

neighbors?
A well, nr. George was the first one to come home.
Q how much later was that?
A how, X couldn't teix you the time because I wasn't! 

watching the time but I do know they were thex*e ...
Q, bid you tell them what had happened?
A ... around nine.

What? V
Q bid you tell thorn what had happened?

A He asked me what had happened to his house while

was at work and I said, well, the officers say they was sear*



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for the Veney brothers. So he said, well, who let them In?
I Bald, they let their own self In.

Q Did you later see Mrs, Barbara Floyd?
A Later his wife came and she was frightened and she 

came into my nouse and ane said ...
MR. MURPHYt 1 think we ought to object to ...
MR. 2iABRi.il Just describe what happened.
THE COURT* The only thing that you have here is 

that they apparently broke in the glass, there is nothing they 
did at her house that was wrong.

THE WlihiiSoj No, they didn't do anything at my 
house that was wrong.

ThL COURT * I don't see anything questionable abou; 
that. They came to the door, they didn't go beyond and they 
told her what they were doing. They didn't push through, X 
don't see that this lias anything to do with it. They apparent!.; 
bro^e into the house next uoor and that is your evidence and 
that is all there is to it tliat I can see on this one.

ido HABRITt Your Honor, I will reserve any comment!
I have,

I have no further questions of this witness.
THL COURT* Unless something comes ap in rebuttal,

1  am not saying whether they had a right or not a right to 
break In but that is wiuit you proved anc that is it.

MR. RABBITi I have no other questions of this wi



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CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR* SOUSEj

Q Mrs. Alston, when you were up on your second floox 
did you have any lights on up there at all?

A no*
it And you were just t M
A You bee, if 1  put the light on £ ooulon’t —  I had

wo look through my window*
<4 You couldn't have peekeu out the window?
a ?eekod out the winnow?
Q You couldn't have looked out the window if you 

have the light on.
A I diun‘t want the light on*

THE COURTi What difference doe6 that make? Is 
there any question atout the police being there? She said 
she saw polioemeu in front, she saw policemen in back*

MR. HOUSE* Well, that is what I am getting to, if 
Your Honor please*

THE COURT* All right*
BY MR. SOUSE:

Q Now, ^ou say when you looked out the front window 
you saw these police cara and a WBAL truck, is that right?

A it was a car, it wasn't a truck.
<Z It was a oar?
A Yes,



161

s
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A

Q
A

\

Now, when you looked out the hack ea«
Well, out the back I didn't see anyone*
You didn't see anyone out the back? 
ho, x didn't Bee anyone*
Thb COURTS bid you look out the back?
THE WITNESS* Yes, 1 looked out the back and I did 

see my nelghoor'a light on in the kitchen*
BY MR* SOUSE;

Q You saw your neighbor's light on In the kitchen
id but you didn't see anyone in oaoxv? 
n A Z didn't duo anyone,
12 II THE COURT* Set me ask you, you say you saw the
12 light on, diu you look out the back before you heard the break)- 
14 ing of glass or after you heard the breaking of glass, or both 
ir, t̂ aies?
k; 9 B  MXUBBBSl Well, I had to look out the back
n when I neard the breaking glass,
is IKK COURT: Diu you look out the back before you
id heard the breaking glass?
20 THE WITNESSi ho, I was in my second floor front
21 room looking out the front*

THE COURT; That is what I wanted to know,
22 BY MR. SOUSE;
24 Q And then you heard the breaking glass, you went to

the back, you looked out and you didn't see anything, is that



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right?
A That'a right,
Q Dia you continue to look out the back window?
A Yes, that's when X saw the light come on in her

kitchen. You see, those houses are attached together,
(4 x uncierbtana out when you saw the light come on in 

the kitchen did you keep rooking out tne back?
A ho, 1 didn't keep locking cut the back, I went to

the front.
(4 old you ever ace any police officer or any person 

go into the back coor of that house?
A ho, but 1 know they did,
(4 Well, now, dia you ever see anyone go into that 

house? The answer la no, rs that correcti
A ho, 1 didn't see anyone,
<4 iou don't set anyone go in the front door or the 

back door or tne window, you didn't sea anyone go in the house 
at all, is that correct?

A That's correct,
(4 All right.

after you heara tnis glass breaking, you went to 
the back window and looked out, then you went back to the 
front. Did you see, were tne police officers still there?

A Yea, dome were out in the atxHiet ana some was in 
her, in the —  in Mrs, Floyd*s second floor front room. The



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light came or* as I cane
Q You don’t know that there were polioe officers In 

the second floor front room, you saw no one entering the house 
did you?

A wexl, botn people were out at work,
THu COURT* Do you offer to prove that no police 

officers went In the house?
MR, BOlfcSis.* If ^our Honor please, at this point we

donft know,
THfc COURT* All right, then it makes a great deal 

of difference, I suppose you can cross examine, I thought 
you had been tola of the addresses and you would know. If no 
polioe officers went in this is perfectly proper cross examin­
ation but if some officers went in this is Just a waste of time 

MR, S0Ub£* If Your Honor please, our information 
right now flatly is that no officers went In,

IHE COURT* Ail right, go ahead with cross examin­
ation, There is no need to argue with her because we have 
established tnat she saw the light go on but she doesn't know 
that an officer put them on and that is on the basis of anyth!i 
she said so far, it is simply a matter of inference,

MR, S0U£>£* No further questions,
RiiDIR^CT EXAMINATION

BY MR, NABRIf:

Q Did you hear any sound from the neighbor's house



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A No, I didn’t,
Q Did any officer say anything to you to indicate 

whether or not they had been in your neighbor’s house?
\ A Well, when X openeu the uoor anu they came in and 

X saiu, what's going on/ They said they were in search for 
the Veney brothers, X said, the Vcney- brothers? And he said 
yes, X said, X don't Know the Veney brothers,

MR, bGUbh: If Your Honor please,
THE COURT; That is exactly what she sale before, 
MR, bGUbbs Almost verbatim,
MR. NABRITi Yes.

BY MR, NABRITi
Q V»as there a message that the officer gave you to 

give to your neighbors?
A he tola me to tell Mr, ana Mrs* George Floyd that 

the policemen from the Northeastern were there, they can call 
down to Central,

THE COURTS That the officers from Northeastern we 
there and they could call Central?

THE WITNESSs That’s right,

THE COURTS Somebody give me the spelling of the 
neighbor's name?

MR. SOUSEs Floyd,
THE COURTs F-l-o-y-d?
MR, NABRITi Mr, George Floyd, F-l-o-y-d, and Mrs.

164



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165

Barbara Floyd*
\  THE COURT* I Just wanted to be sure I had it right!
I wasn*t sure if it was Floyd or Lloyd*\\

MR* NABR1T: lour witness.
RECRGbS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SOUSE:
<4 You indicated to Mr. Nabrit Just now that you hea 

no sound in the building next door, is that right?
A That’s right.
Q In the Floyd home?
A That’s right.
Q But you indicated before that you diu see the ligh

come on. Did you put your head out the window and see the 
light come on in the kitchen next door?

A All I had to do was look out my window, Just walk 
to the window and look. You see, the houses in the back have 
what you call an air-way and Mrs. Floyd’s kitchen window is 
opposite my kitchen, her light came on.

Q Did you see the window or did you see light coming 
out of the window and falling on the ground?

A No, the window's too high for the light to fall on 
the ground,

Q Did you see the window itself or did you Just see
light?

A I saw the window.



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Q You oan see the window from your house?
A Yes.
Q Aren't all the houses, the baok of all of the 

houses flat in a straight line?
A No, two are high, two are low.

THE COURT: Well, show on the blackboard how you
could sea the back window in your neighbor’s house.

YiR. NABRIT: The witness described that there was
an air-way, Ydur honor.

THE COURT: Is the air-way between the houses or
behind the houses?

THE WITNESS: between the house.
THE COURT: Between the houses, all right,
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: All right, I understand it.

BY MR. SOUSE:
Q bo you have an alley behind your house?
A It's two alleys, one alley runs beside the house 

and one in the intersection, in the back.
Q Is your house attached to the —  do you have a wa2 

between your house and the Floyd's house or is there an air 
space that goes all the way through inbetween?

A All four of those houses join from the front to tl 
dining rooa. They only have two rooms on the first floor.

THE COURT: As I understand it between the two



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167

houses they are Joined on the front and in the back between 
each pair of houses there is an air-way,

i'lhe NABRIT: Y«S,
BY MR, SOUSE:

. Now, the thing what I xta trying to
understand in my mind ia this, Is the window that you looked 
out of and saw the light come on does this window look out 
toward the alley or docs it look out toward the house next doo^ 

A It looks right down toward the house,
Q It looks toward the house next door?
A That's right, Ity house is higher than their house 

my porch is higher than theirs,
MR. oOlidk: All right, that 13 all.
ME. NABRIT: You may step down,

(Witness excused,)
MR. NABRIT: Mrs. Barbara Floyd, please.

(Thereupon, Barbara Floyd was called to the stand 
and sworn as a witness and, having been first duly swc*r*n, was 
examined and testified as follows:)

THE CLERK: State your name for the record, please(?
THE WITNESS: Barbara Floyd.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q State your name?
A Barbara Floyd.
Q And your address? s!8



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168

A 220t North Rosedale Street,
Q Are you employed?
A Yes, I am,
Q Where?
A Krlger Drug Store,

THE COURT: Where?
THE WITNESS: Krlger, K-r-i-g-e-r.

BY MR, NABRIT:
Q Drug store?
A Yes.
Q Are you married?
A Yes, I am,
Q Your husband lives there with you?
A Yes, he does,
Q What is his name?
A George Floyd,
Q What does he do?
A He works at the Maryland State Building and also a 

the Gas and Electric Company,
Q Your age?
A Twenty two,
Q Your husband*s?
A Twenty two,
Q Now, this address on Rosedale Street, do you own

that home, are you buying it or what?
119



A

169

We*re buying,
Q Do you recall on Monday, January 4th, a week ago?
A Yea.
Q What aid you do that aay?
A Well, 1 got up around six thirty and I cooked 

breakfast for ay nuoband ana he left.
The. COURT 1 A.M0 or r,M,, morning or evening?
THE WITNESS 1 Morning, and fixed ray husband break­

fast so he could go to work and he left around seven o'clock 
A.M., and after that I started cleaning the house, then I 
had lunch, X stopped and haa lunch, and 1  had to get a few 
clothes, washing, 1  did that ana then 1  got ready for work,
BY MR, NABRIT:

<4 Did you leave the house?
A Yes, X left arounu 2i3Q, maybe close to three.

And wnat did you ao then?
A X went to work,
Q What are your wording hours that day?
A My wording hours are from four to ten,
<« Your husband has two jobs, what are his working

hours?
a rirs one, the main job, the Maryland State Building, 

he work8 from eignt until 4 130 and he lsave3 there and goes t< 
the Gas and Electric Company and he works from five to ten 
there,

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ft Every day?
A No, sometimes he gets off aroune nine,
ft Now, did anything unusual happen to you that even-

Ing or did you near about?
A Yfcs0
ft Strike that.

THE COURT: What die she notice when she came home
BY MR. NABRIT:

ft X)ia you hear the last witness' testimony?
A Yes.
ft What do you know about this of your* own personal

knowledge ?
A My husband called me on the job around quarter to 

ten and told me that the house was raided and I told him, what
tor? Ana he said, X aon't jenow,

MR* SOUSE: X object to what the husband said,
Your Honor.

MR. NABRITi X agree with that.
THE COURT: la the husband here?
MR. NABRIT» No, he is not. Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Well, I got off around ten and went

straight home ana when I got there all the lights were on and 
I went up stairs.
BY MR. NABRIT:

ft W&6 your nusband at home? * Z£1



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A Yea, he was, and X went upstairs, the cupboard 
doors were open, everything was open, the closet doors, they 
were open, everything was intact though, but Just the doors 
were open,

THE COURTi You will have to speak up. Some or fcii 
doors were open, that Is the last X got,

THE WITNESSi All my closet doors were open and 
everything was Intact,

THE COURT* Everything was In what?
MR. MABRIT* Intact.
THE COURT* Intact, everything was Intact.
THE WITNESS* And I went downstairs and I heard 

the dog whining and I asked my husband, what In the world was 
the dog doing In the kitchen,

MR, MURPHY: I object to what the husband Is going
to tell her. 
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q What did you see In the kitchen.
A The kitchen was In a holy mess, the dog was

having a ball and I went to the kitchen door, one of my w 
panes were knocked out next to the latch.

Q Describe what this door looked like?
A It*s a white door with four window panes in it 

sections, four window panes in It, one of the window panes 
were out, , o o

there
findon



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Q Which one?
A Hie one next to the latch,
Q What do you mean, the door knob?
A Yea,
Q Now, where does this door lead, from where to whe
A It leads to the yard,
Q From where ?
A From the kitchen into the yard.

When you left the house what was the condition of
that door?

A It was all right, it was locked when I left the 
house, Bverything was all right when I left the house,

Q Vinen you left the house where was your dog?
A He was in the basement,
Q How was he kept in the basement?
A Well, usually whon I leave usually he's In the

yard but whon I leave I put him in the basement because we 
had some trouble,

Q Do you do this every day when you go to work, you 
do that regularly?

A Yes, I do,
Q And is the dog able to come from the basement tc 

the kitchen?
A No, he isn't,

123Q What stops him?



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Q A door* The cellar door la In the kitchen, I mean 
the dining room. You go down to the cellar through the dining 
room and we have a small narrow cellar door that we keep shut 
when he*a down there.

Q And where did you find the dog?
A In the kitchen.
Q Did you find any evidence of anything the dog had

done in the kitchen?
A Yea, he had knocked trash all overthe1floor and 

pulled dish towels down and Just ripped them up in little 
pieces.

Q What about your cellar door?
A My cellar door was wide open but my kitchen door

was closed to keep him in there,
Q How do you lock the door that leads from the kl 

to the yard?
A We have a latch on there, one of those latches 

you pull, you know. We don‘t have the key latch, it's Just
of those little regular latches that you have to lock the doo

Q And was that when you observed it that even open? 
THE COURT* Well, now, her husband was in there, 
MR, NABRIT* Very well. Your Honor,

BY MR, NABRIT*
Q Did you or your husband, to your own knowledge.

any contact with the authorities after this?
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A No* My husband called hla lawyer*
MR. MURPHYt I object to that,

BY MR. NABRITt
Q Don't give any conversations.

What Is the lawyer's name?
A Mr* Cohen. I don't know the first name.

MR. NABRIT: Your witness,
CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SOUSE:
Q Mrs, Floyd, when you got home from work your hus­

band was already home?
A Yes, he was,
Q Now, this pane of glass, you said the pane of gla^s 

was out In the door next to the latch, is that right?
A Yes.
Q And there is a window divided up into four panes?
A Right,
Q And one of those panes was completely missing,

wasn't it?
A Yes.
Q It wasn't Just a hole in it. It was not there at a(ll?
A There was Just a little piece left in there, a

little small piece up at the top that was left,
Q A small piece left up at the top?
A Yes.

125



175

Q Now, everything was still there when you got home?
A Everything was still there, the trash and everything 

when I got home was still there,
Q You cleaned the glass off the back porch then, did

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you?
A Yes, I did, I cleaned everything,
Q Pardon me,
A I cleaned everything,
Q And you had to clean glass from the back porch?
A Yes,

THE COURT: Where was the glass?
THE WITNESS: The glass was partially in the door

where the storm screen door was. We have a storm screen door 
there also and there was some glass in that, you know, where 
the screen door is and the regular door. And there was glass 
on the —  pieces was on the back porch also, the back porch. 
We have a little cement porch there,

THE COURT: None on the kitchen floor?
THE WITNESS: My kitchen floor, there was some

pieces, Just pieces of fragments inside but most of it was 
inside under the door like, you know, and the dog had spread 
some of it on the floor, around on the floor,
BY MR. SOUSE:

Q Most of the glass you say though was inbetween 
the Btorm door and the back door?



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A Yes.

MR* SOUSEt I see„
1 have no further questions* Thank you*
MR* NABRIT; four Honor, In view of the ruling of 

the question made to the last witness, I could not try to an­
ticipate the questions asked, X did not ask this witness to 
describe her nusband. However, I reason to think I know why t 
police went to this house and X would like to ask this witness 
to describe her husband*

THE COURT* Ail right.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT*
Q Would you describe your husband?
A My husbanu is robust built, he's 5*7" —  he's about 
or 5 ’9 #  kind of dark complexion, he has a mustache, 

that's about all.

Q Ana you gave his age before as what?
A Twenty two,

THE COURT* Twenty two is that?
MR. NABRIT* Yes.

BY MR. NABRIT*
i 2 ^Q Skin complexion?

A Dark. It's kind of a dark complexion.
MR. NABRIT* That is all. Your Honor.
Ku, SOUSE* Just one or two other questions.



177

1 RE CROSS EXAMINATION
•) BY MR* SOUSE:
:{ Q Your nusbanc whom you have just aeacribea, to your

• knowleuge naB he ever been arrestee or convictea or any crime?
5 HR* NABRITt Objection*
(i TEE COURT; Qverruisa* You are talking about
7 probable cause for going somewhere.
S THE WITNESS: Yes, I remember ol“ last year he was
!) arrestee I tnink ior uisorueriy conauct*

10 BY MR* SOUSE:
11 Q uisoruerxy conauct. Is that the only one that you
12 remember?

• A That's the only one that I remember.
14 Q This incident with regard to the back aoor, aid
15 you report that to your insurance company?
ltt A No, 1 uiun't.
17 Q I fast.
18 THE COURT: ho you tuive any insurance that covers
1!) that?
2 0 THE WITNESS: You mean oovers the house?
21 THE COURT: Yes.

•
THE WITNESS: Yes,

22 MR. SOUSE: No further questions.
2 4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION  ̂y^.
2 5 BY MR. NABRITt



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Q Did you receive any advice from your attorney with 
respect to the door?

a Yes, he tola my husband that he couldn't uo anythi 
MH. SOUont Well, now 1 object; to what he told th

husband*
Tat COUh'i'j You are asking her if they filed any 

claim against the insurance company ana if it was done on 
advice of counsel, if she knows*
BY MR* NABRIT:

y Well, you got advice? 
a Yes, he toiu him that he shoulu take the damage to 

the police Btatxon anu have them pay for it.
^ nave y ou aone that ? I
A No. My husoanu put the window in himself.

MR. NABhxl'i That is all*
You may be excused,
uoaa Your Honor want mu to call another witness or|, 
THE COURT: Let me speak to counsel for a minute*
(A conference was haa at the bench*)
MR* NAURU’: Harrietta Wallace*
(Thereupon, Harrietta Wallace was called to the 

stand and sworn as a witness anu, having been first duly sworn, 
was examined and testified as follows:)

THE CLERK: State your name for the record?
THE WITNESS: Harrietta Wallace.



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BY MR, HABRITi

DIRECT EXAMINATION

179

Q Miss Wallace, you are a sister of the witness who 
testified earlier?

a Yea, X am*
(4 xjo you go to school?
A lea, l ao*
(1 where?
A I go to Morgan otatc,
Q What year are you?
A I'm in my thira year*
<4 Did you hear your sister testily here in court

this morning?
A lea.
<4 Were you home that night she testilled about?
A lea, I was,
(4 wnat night was that?
A That was on December jOth, it was a Wednesday,
<4 Will you tell the Court about any conversations

you had with police offioers or that you overheard while they 
were in the house tnat night?

A Well, when they came in the house I stayed down­
stairs on the first floor with them when they came in all of 
ua asked what had happened, what was going on and one said, 
when Lucinda was upstairs with one, downstairs, one told my



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aunt and I that they got a call and so I said, what kind of a 
call? So one of the policemen said, we got an anonymous call
from a man saying that the Veney brothers ’were here. So I sal\
there aren’t any Veney brothers here.

So while he was going up the steps X said, wait a 
minute, ray father's upstairs asleep and then ray aunt told rae 
that ray father hau gone out, X didn't know this because I had 
come home late because I was at the library that evening, so 
X came home late, anu ray aunt said, well, there’s no Veney 
brotners here so let them go search if they want to, so he did 

The one was going downstairs and X said, wait a 
minute, the dog stays downstairs and I better go let him out. 
So then they told rae teat the uog was outside, so •»,

Q Were there any reraarics about the officer and the
dog?

A Yes, there was,
Q What was it?
A Mrs, barrick was so upset because of the fact that

they came in the house,
MR# SOUSE; l object to that. Your Honor,

BY MR, NABRIT:
Q Just what dlo you say,

THu COURT; Strike out, because she was upset.
Go ahead,

. THE WITNESS: As I said, I said, wait a minute, the



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181

dog is downstairs, So Mrs* Barrick said *,*
MR* SOUSE1 I object to what Mrs. Barrick said* 
THE COURTS Take it subject to exception* It may 

or may not be Res gestae*
(to ahead*
THE WITNESS * She said to the policeman —  she as 

to me* well, let him go on downstairs if he's so crude and rud 
So the policeman,said, well, miss, the dog is not going to 
bite me* She said, you don't know, she said, he might* She 
said, you won't shoot him? And he said, not in the worus that 
I'm saying it but in so many words, he said, if I have to, I 
will.

So he proceeded downstairs with my sister Sharon,
I had another conversation with —  I'm quite sure 

he was a captain because I'm quite sure they called him captai|i 
he had a white hat on, I was out on the porch *,,

MR. NAHRITi Was there anything that happened that 
makes you think he was a captain?

THE COURT} She said he had a white hat on*
THE WITNESS} I'm quite sure I heard one of the 

other officers call him captain, and while I was out on the 
porch the captain asked me, who was that rude woman in the hous|c 
I told him who she was and I said she might seem rude to you 
but she's a very nice person. I said, and in the fashion that 
you oarae into someone's house you might carry yourself the



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182

way she did if someone came in your house that way* And he 
said, well, I*m very sorry but when we get a tip that the 
Veney brothers are some place that we have to check It out*
BY MR. NABRI'X*

Q how, were you inside the house when your mother 
came home?

, A Yes, 1 was.
Q Bid the officer make any statement at that point ,
A Well, yes, he was ...
k ... trying to explain to your mother or anything?
A ies, he was trying to explain —  one of the onioc

was trying to explain to my mother what was going on but she 
was so upset ....

Q Bon't tell us that, what did the officer say?
A he was trying to say —  well he said that they had

gotten an anonymous phone call from a man saying that the 
Veney brothers were there.

Q Bo you know how the officers got in the front aoor
A Yea, I ao. v
Q how?
A One of the officers went to the front door and 

opened the door.
Q how, the officer who opened the aoor, where was he
A Well, there was one that came in first, two others

came behind him, one of the two that came ...



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Q Explain to the judge where these first officers 
came from?

A Well, the first officers came into the sitting roc
where we were ,\

Q How did they get in the house, at the side?
\A Yes, at the side door.\
MR, MURPHYs X think we ought to let the witness

\
testify,

THE COURTx Well, we have had testimony as to how 
they came in from the sloe. The question is who let the 
people in the front or how they got in the front, if you know 
who it was that did that, or you will produce the person who 
knows that, \
BY MR, HABRXTs

Q Go ahead,
A One of the three who went in the sitting room went

to the front room and opened the door. The door was looked 
and we have a little handle on it to turn the lock to open the 
door. So when he saw that the door was locked he turned the 
handle and opened the door and let them in,

Q What happened then?
A He let some more policemen in the house,
Q How many policemen came into the house?
A I know there were —  I don‘t know how many alto­

gether but I know there were three that came in first, there



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184

was one at the front who went to the front to open the coor 
and there was one that went down the oellar that I knew of, 
that went down the cellar with my Bister Sharon, and there 
was one who went upstairs, 1 don't know how many altogether 
was there,

k Liu ur«y officer put his nanus on you?
A Y e s ,  h e  u i u ,

<4 when was this anu where?
a kher* they first entered the side door, Lucinda was 

up on the steps ana ane back up into the steps, I was behind 
her ano as ycu open the aoor 1 was behind the door, khen the 
first officer came in he moved the door back so he could get 
to the 3itting room ana in so doing entering the sitting room 
he took his nand ana moved me to the side like that, (Indicatii

Q Lid he have any weapon in view?
A Yes, he did,
k khat kina?
A He had a gun, a rifle, \
Q Lid you see any warrant?
A ho, I didn’t,
Ci how long after the officers were in the house was 

it that you first heard that they were looking for the Veney 
brothers?

A Well, i’ll say about, approximately two minuteB
after they were in there.



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Q Two minutes?
A Yes, because they clan*t tell us when they first 

came In that they were locating for the Veney brothers orhow t 
came about cooing to our house.

Q, \ Well, w&a it before or after the officer entered 
and started the search?

A it was after one officer was upstairs with ay sis' 
and the other one was down the basement with my other sister.
One officer tola my aunt ana I that «hey goo a phone call* an 
anonymous phone call from a man saying that the Veney brothers
were there.

0. And wh&l is your aunt's name?
MR* SOUbEi 1 objecto
MR* KAhRIT: You don't want to know the aunt1 s
MR. HOdHEi Put the aunt on to testify*
MR. NABRIT: X asked for the aunt’s name, Your Hon
THH COURT i Objection overruled, he can ask whac 

her name was, and they wore there together as I understand it. 
MR. bOUbbt He asked what the aunt said.
THH COURT* What the aunt's name wa3. I think you 

miaunderstooa.
MR* SOl&Li* Oh, I ’m sorry*
THB WiTNdbb: My aunt’s name is Mrs* Hattie Burley,
Ml?. HAHRIT* Your witness.

CROSH EXAMINATION



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186

BY MR. MURPHYl
Q Miss Wallace, how long altogether were the officer 

in the house?
A Prom tiie beginning?
Q\ Yes.
A lo the oral, 1 woulu say approximately twenty mln-

utea,
vi to X unuerstand you to say that the officers same 

in the side door first?
A
Q
A

Y’ett,
a m  wno ret them in?
One of the officers —  what, let them in the side

uoor?
Q Yes, ma'am.
A My sister opened the first door ana one of the 

officer opened the storm door.
U How long after did they first gained entrance did 

they open tne front uoor?
A i'll say about half a minute or something like tha 

approximately half a minute,
q Old X understand you to say, Miss Wallace, that on 

the olficers were in you invited them to continue tnelr search
A After they tola us what happened my aunt £>t* id, wei; 

wo know that the Veney hrotners aren't here so we have nothin] 
to hide so let them look.



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187

Q At that point did the officer then go open the 
front door and let the additional officers in?*

\ A Yea#
{* Did any of the officers personally tell you that 

they had called in response to an anonymous call?
A Yes#
Cl And was that the gentleman in the white hat?
A It was the gentleman who told my aunt ana I* a 

tall gentleman with a blue hat on#
MR# MURPHY» X have no further questions#
Thank you#

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR# NABRIT:

Q Hiss Wallace, was your aunt's statement to the
officers to let them look? Can you remember what was said, 
can you give us the sense of what they said?

THE COURT* The Veney brothers were not there and 
they had nothing to hide. That is what I understood her to say 
BY MR# NABRIT:

Q Did she expressly tell them they could search or
what?

MR. HOUSE* X will object to that also, Your Honor# 
MR# NABRIT: 1 will withdraw the question#
THE COURT* The problem is coming in as they came 

in# I understood the problem as to your other witness let



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188

them upstairs.
MR. NABRITj With guns.
THE COURT: Qnoe people have entered In force the

fact, that a person thereafter consents to the search and Bays 
we have nothing to hide with a lot of people with guns sfcandln 
around, thl3 is probably what happened in most situations and 
the question is whether, and I don*t know if Mr, Murphy is 
going to defend it that way, cancels any impropriety,

MR. MURPHY: I think the officers should have guns
if they were going to search these houses,

THE COURT: All right, but if you are talking
about consent, if there is no consent, if there is no probable 
cause, and X am not saying there isn't, if there is no probab 
cause and there is an entry without showing the warrant and so 
forth, and after they get in a couple minutes later they tell 
the people what the basis is, I'm not sure whether you are ar­
guing that they then saying you may search constitutes a waive:’ 

entry snc» if it does the fact that the officers have guns 
may have something to do with the question of waiving. Of 
course, if the officers are going to hunt these people they 
must have guns, there is no question about that, nobody denies 
that, if they have a right to come in and searoh they certain]; 
have a right to come in armed.

MR. MURPHY: I think under the circumstances in
each case I would certainly agree with that but the fact they



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have guns does not in and of Itself Initially vitiate any 
possibility of consent,

THE COURT1 Ho, but tne question of consent may 
eliminate certain damage^ as to the question, or If your are 
arguing that the consent has any retroactive effect, then via 
have to go into tne circumstances rather fully,

MR, NABRIf: Well, I have withdrawn the question.
Your Honor, X don't suppose it serves any purpose or not but 
I did read a case tnat Dears on tne subject and I will try to 
furnish it to you and counsel,
BY MR, NABRIT*

Q Will you tell us whether the statement by your 
aunt was before or after tne officers entered the front door?

A It was before*
Q Ail right,

Bid anyone in the group of people in the house mak^
any protest about tne police coming in searching?

THE c o u r t* You mean that Bhe heard,
BY MR, NABRIT:

Q That you heard. Yes, airA
A I aon't know ...
Q Who was there?
A I)o you want me to name everybody?
Q Weil, did either of your two sisters make any objec­

tions?



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A No.
Q Did Mrs. Barrick make any objections?
A Yos, she did.
Q Dio the officers ask your aunt or ascertain from 

tier who she was before or during this conversation?
A \ Who Mrs. Barrick was?
Q No, no, who your aunt was.
A No. They aidn’t ask who anybody was. All that 

they asked, did the Wallaces live here and where were the men. 
They didn’t ask for anybody else’e name except my mother’s 
name and my sister’s name and I when they were in the front 
room.

*
A ho when Mrs. Burley, your aunt, made this state­

ment the officers had not found out who she was?
A No.
Q And at the same time there waB another adult, Mrs. 

Barrick, who was protesting?
A Yes.

MR. NABRIIs Thank you, that is all.
RE CROSS EXAMINATION S

BY MR. SOUSEj
Mrs. Barrick was a guest in the house?

A Y«b , she was.
Q She didn’t live there?
A No.



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MR. SOUSE: That is all,
(Witness excused,)

THE COURT* We will take a recess until two o’oloc 
(Thereupon* at 1* 0 5 o*olock p,ra,* a reoess was 

taken until R*00 o'clock p,m,)
THE COURT* bo you want to call another witness? 
MR, MABRiTs Yes* Your Honor,
George Floy a,
THE oOURT* ho you want to put that stipulation inj? 
HR, BEitRIHG* Yes* Your Honor,
IT it please the Court* at this time I would like 

to enter this stipulation*
it is stipulated and agreed by and between counselL 

lor the respective parties in the above-entitled cause that 
no search warrants were secured in the Municipal Court of 
Baltimore City in connection with the search of any home or 
premises in an attempt to apprehend* capture or bring to Jus­
tice the Veney brothers.

MR, HABftiT: I think the stipulation should be,
’or any other court,11

MR, MURPHY * We will so stipulate that aiter inves­
tigation if that is found to be true,

MR* HiiARINa* Thank you*
MR* ukBRxi: Mi’* George Floyd,
(Thereupon, George J, Floyd wa3 called to the stand

1 3 0



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and sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was 
examined and testified as follows;)

THE CLERK; Please state your name for the record?
THE WITNESS: George Joseph Floyd.
THE COURT; He said that no search warrant was 

either sought or obtained?
MR, MURPHY; 1 think secured was the language,
MR, BEARING; Secured, We are subject to correct 

later, Tour Honox*.

BY MR, NABRXT;
DIRECT EXAMINATION

I

Q
A

Q
A

work for 
Q 
A

Q
A

Q
A

Q

Mr. Floyd, state your home addrese?
I live at 2204 Rosedale Street,
And your occupation, where do you work?
Well, I work for the Gas and Electric Company and 
the State Office Building as a cook.
And you have just come from there, is that true?
1 just come from there.
What is your wlfe*s name, Mr, Floyd?
Barbara Floyd,
How old are you, sir?
Twenty five,
How, on January 4, 1 9 6 5, what time did you get up

in the morning?
A Oh, I got up around six thirty. < 31



193

Q And what did you do?
A I got up, washed up and went to work around seven

o'clock,
Q You left the house around seven o'clock?
A That's right.
Q Was anybody home when you left?
A wy wife was there,
Q What did you do all day?
A Well, I worked all day,
Q Well, during the day where did you work?
A I worked at the State Office Building, I left one 

Job and went to my other,
Q What time did you leave the State Office Building? 
A Oh, around quarter to six,
Q And then you went to the other Job?
A That's right,
Q What period of time were you at your other Job?
A Oh, I was there around 6 1I5 , 6*20, something like

that,
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Q Until when?
A I couldn't tell you exact. Until about

maybe 8 13 0 nine o'clock,
Q What did you do when you left there?
A Well, I went on ,,,
Q Where did you go?

nine o'clock.

U W



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A After X left work I went to 08*8 house on McKean 
Avenue 1100 block, I stayed there for a short while, couldn't 
tell you how long, and right after I left there I went home, 
caught a cab and went home,

Q. caught a ta;ci cab and went home?
A That's right,
Q About what time did you get home?
A I'm not sure but I think it was around ten o'clock,
Q When you got out of the cab did you look at your

house?
A Yes, the front light was on,
Q Where i3 that light?
A That is tne porch light which I usually keep it of
Q What else did you observe? Describe to the Court

your own words what you observed when you went into the house?
A The porch light was on, the vestibule door was ahu 

but the main door was open, the side of the door was the first 
tning I saw as I walked in the house, that was open, the ,citche 
light was on, the cellar door was open, the cellar light was 
on and my dog was in the kitchen which had turned over every­
thing, some trash, and the back door window was broke and tha 
was —  and the upstairs lignt was on. So, a3 soon a3 I saw t hj 
I went next door, 1 & &

ii Let's go back a minute.
Describe what your front door —  how many doors in



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front?
A I have a storm ooor.

THE COURT: He said his vestibule door was shut
and the main door was open. X think that is clear,
BY MR, NABRIT:

Q Which of the doors is the one that has the lock on
it?

A Well, the main door. There*s three doors there 
counting the storm door.

Q How many of them have locks?
A The main door, just the one. The other ones just

have a knob.
THE COURT: And that is the one that was left open
THE WITNESS: That'b right.

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q What kind of dog is that?
A German Shepherd, police dog,
Q How old is he?
A About eight months,
Q What else upstairs, did you notice anything?
A Well, lights, the lights 1b the main thing, there 

wasn't nothing broken, nothing like that, but I knew someone 
had been there. There wasn't anything missing.

I talked to the lady next door and she tolu me what
happened.



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Q Now, dl d you subsequently get in touch with the 
police?

A Yes, I dia,
* When was this?
A That same night,,
<* V.nat, ix anything, did the police tell you?
A Well, i haa & time getting them, they connected me 

to Central ana XToiu Central to somewhere else and it seemed 
like each on- woaia connect me with someone else and anyway I 
got to the last officer, he tolo rae they were there and they h 
to take action to what was, I mean, as far as the Veneys were 
concerned because they —  well, he put it this way, they would 
be wasting the paxpayers* money to wait on the outside of the 
house lor- the veneys and watch how much money they spend so 
they had no other choice than to go into the house,

Qi Anu how long after you got homo did your wife come

A Imeii, sne came home immediately after I called her,,
Q About how much time elapsed?
A Oh, X think maybe twenty minutes or less,
^ Did you do anything In the house by way of straight;

ening it out between the time you got there and tne time your
| *7r;wife goc there/

A ho, Chut the doors, the closet doors. When she
got there we cleaned the kitchen. Well, see, when my dog came



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up I guess he probably ran straight to the kitchen because 
there’s a boor between the dining room and the kitchen, ray dog 
was in there, he messed the kitchen up and we cleaned that up 
together*

MR* NABRITt Your witness*
GROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SOUSE;
Q Mr. Floyd, you say you are twenty five, your wife 

testified you were twenty two, but your proper age is twenty 
five, is that correot?

A That*8 right,
Q Have you ever been convicted of any crimes?
A No. I have been on a disorderly conduct but I 

haven’t served any time*

Q Now, when you got home you said the porch light wan 
on?

A The porch light was on. The cellar light, too, an< 
a couple others.

Q Who had left the house first, you or your wife?
A I was*
Q You left first?
A I was there first. i o p

Q Well, who left the house first?
THE COURT; He said he left at seven o'clock in

norning and his wife said she left in the afternoon*



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198

THE WITNESS* I left first.
BY MR. SOUSE*

Q You don't know whether your wife left the light on 
or not, do you?

A She aon't have any reason to turn the porch light 
on.

Q But you won't know whether she turned it on 02* not
A Weil, I uon't know but I don't believe she did,
Q Now, when you called up the police what officer di

you speak to?
A I don't Know. All I know is tney connected me froi 

one officer to then another, from Central District to another 
district. All 1 know I wlna up with one officer and I Icnov; 
what he told me and. that was it.

Q fou didn't ask him hxs name?
A ,tNo, I didn't,
Q All these ofrlcers you talked to they all answered

byygiving their naue,uian't they?‘V
A Well, I told them my house had been raided and I 

was supposed to call about it. Sc the first thing one would 
do they connected me —  I cabled at Central.

Q sir, Floyd, bnat is all very nice but didn't this
officer answer the pnone by giving his name?

A He gave his name but I couldn't tell you what the 
name was, that's all.



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Q Did he tell you what precinct he was in?
A I think he did.
Q What precinct was it?
A I couldn't tell you.
Q When was this?

MR. NABRIT: When was what?
MR. SOUSEs When was it he had the conversation. 
THE WITNESS t It was right after I found ray house

the way X did, the same night. 
BY MR. SOUSE:

Q The same night, what time?
A About ten minutes after I got through talking to -

a little bit more than that, I*d say about ten or fifteen 
after I got through talking to the lady next door.

Q Well, I'll ask you again, what time was it?
A I don't remember the time.
Q You don't remember the time?
A I don't remember.

THE COURTx Can you say about?
THE WITNESS s Oh, maybe a little after ten maybe. 
THE COURT: You said you got home around ten, is

that right?

THE WITNESS: Something like that.
THE COURT: Well, how long after you got home?
THE WITNESS: Well, after I got home I stayed to

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my house around five or six minutes before I went next door to 
the lady and I talked to her*

THE COURT: And then you called the police before
or after you called your wife?

THE WITNESS: I talked to the lady next door and
she told me what had happened, she told me the police told me 
to call them, which X did* I called my wife first*

THE COURT: You called the police before your wife
got home?

THE WITNESS: I called my wife first and then I
called the police*

THE COURT: Eld you call the police before your wlE
got home or after she got home?

THE WITNESS: No, 1 called before she home.
THE COURT: Ail right* I think that will give you

a closer time.
BY NR. SOUSE:

Q Now, you say your wife wasn't h 2me when you called 
the police?

A No, ray wife wasn't home,
Q When your wife got home did you tell her what the 

police said?
A Yes, I did,
Q And what, if any, comment did she have about Ghat?
A Well, she didn't t.ink the whole thing was right,

139

E00



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she didn*t agree with it,
Q But you did tell her that you talked to the police„ 

is that z*ight?
A Yub, I did,
<4 Did you at any time after that contact anybody 

else with reference to this episode?
A Yes, I called ray lawyer up and talked with him.
<4 And what is his name?
A Robert r , Cohen,
<4 Robert R, Cohen?
A That's right, d-o-h-e-n.
Q When was it you called him?
A The same night after I called the police,
<4 has your wife there when you called him?
A No, she wasn't,
Q That was before she got horae, too, wasn't it?
A That's right,
Q Now, who was it who cleaned up —  was there any

glass tnere, was there any glass left in the door?
A There was glass on the outside of the door, maybe 

a couple pieces on the inside,
Q But there was more on the outside?
A That's right, * 4 0
Q WaB there any glass in the frame?
A Yes, it was, a couple pieces, small pieces.



202

Q Where was this glass that was on the outside, was 
it on the back porch or between the storm door?

A It waa on bhe porch and between the storm door,
k Now, you said you talked to the lady next door,

what waa her name?
(i A I Torget her name.
7 k Your next-door neighbor?
S A That's right, Just movea up there.
<1 Q Where does she live, what is her address?

10 A 2203.
11 k 2 2 0 3. la that right next door or a couple doors
12 away?

13 THu COURT t What is your number?
14 THB WITNBbbi 2202, 2202,
15 THa COURT* Which ia your number?
1(1 THE WITNB&bI Mine is 2204 so hers is probably
17 2202.
IS BY MR . bOUSd*
l i t Q When you talked to her aid you talk to her husband,
2 0 too?
21 A Yes, I did.
2 2 k What did Mrs. Alston tell you? Was it Mrs, Alston?
22 A Yes.
2 4 Q You are sure that was her name?
2 5 A That's right.



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203

Q  What did she tell you?

A She told me she heard a noise in the yard, 3he 

went to the front —  let's see, she went to the front, she saw 
a man getting out of the car, cranking up something, which was 

a shotgun or rifle, anc a he saw these cars ana trucks all aroui 

the house, and then they went in my house*

Q  b h e told you they went in the house?

A Yes, she die.

Q, hhe told you she Eaw them go in the house?

A Yes, and they also went in her house, six of them, 

about six*

Q  I a m  particularly interested in what she tola you.

A That's what she told me,

Q. Now, you said that she tola you that the police we: 

in your house?

A That's right*

14 Anu she tolu yo u  she saw them, is that right?

A That's right.

Q  Did she fell you how they got into your house?

A Wo, she didn't. All she told me was she heard a

noise, they went up on the front, they went in the back, 3he 

told me they went in the back, too, which they did because my 

gate was down. The back ana the front, they were all around 

the house. i

Well, did 3he tell yo u  whether they went in the



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rront door or the back door?
A No, she didn't tell me which way they went in 

first but she told me they went in*
Q Did she tell you the way they went in second?
A All 1 know is she tola roe they were at the front

and they were at the back.
Q She told you they were at the back?
A
Q

They were at both places.
And she told you she saw them at the back?
MB. NABHX1: Objection, Your Honor.
THE OQURTi This is cross examination. The wltnesi

has testified that he first said they went in the house and 
then on further questioning he said she saw them go in and he 
said both the second time. I think he can go on with cross 
examination for a reasonable length of time, I hope.
BY MB. SOUSE:

/>H How, she said she saw them xn the back of the house
A At the front and at the back.
Q I am talking about the back now, she told you she

saw them at the back?
A That's right.
Q Are you certain of that?

♦ 4 3
A Hull?
Q Are you sure she told you that?
A I think she did, she told me a lot.
Q What else did she tell you?



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A Che told me about the police came up in her house 
and they just barges in, they asked who lived there, tnoy 
showed a couple photos of the Veney brothers and a few other 
things which 1 Qian1t pay too mucn attention to, I wanted to 
find out what was what*

Q ho you know the Veney brothers?
A ho, I don't know nothing about them. I wouldn't 

know them if X seen them.
Q, This police officer who you said you talnea to but 

whose name you can't remember, did he tell you whether or not 
he haa been to your house?

A Yes, he told me they were there,
A I cicn't ask you about they, I asked you about, did 

he tell you he was there?
A Wo, he didn't say he was there.
Q This dog that you say is about eight months old,

where did you keep him? ; 4 4
A I keep him in the cellar?

MR. SOUbii: That is all.
PJiBIPJiCT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT*
Q Mr. Floyd, where was this telephone that you used 

call your wife and ...
THE COURT* What difference does that make? If

205

you have any point to make



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\\ MR. NABRIT* I was Just trying to clarify the time
\element. If Your Honor Is not Interested,

THE COURT* He said he called them before his wife
got home,
BY MR, NABRIT:

Q Was the phone In your house?
A No, It wasn't. It was at the phone booth across 

the street,
Q Were you In court this morning when your wife test 

fled and Mrs. Alston testified today?
A No, I wasn't,

MR, NABRIT* That Is all,
RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR, SOUSE*
Q Well, now who called you to come up here?
A My wife called me,
Q So you have talked to your wife since she testified 

this morning, you talked to her?
A Yes, I did

MR. SOUSE* No further questions,
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Did you talk to her about what she testified about

in court this morning? \

No. She said a couple words over the phone which

\



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she told me I had to be here*
MR. NABRIT* That is all.

RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. SOUS^t

ti Your wife said nothing to you ...
A Nothing about the court, what went on here.
Q Did anybody discuss what happened here this morning,

anything?
A No, I Just got in the door.

MR. SOUSE* I have no further questions.
MR. NABRiT* Nothing further.

(Witness excused.)
MR. NABRITt Mrs. Rita Miles, please.
(Thereupon, Rita Miles was called to the stand and 

sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was examj* 
ined and testified as follows*)

THE CLERK* State your name for the record, please 
THE WITNESS* Mrs. Rita Miles.
THE CLERK* Mrs. Rita Miles, take the stand, pleas^. 

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT*

Q State your address, please?
A 1140 Shields Place,(?) < 4 5

Q Who do you live there with?
A Myself and five children.



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208

Q Arc you employed?
A Yes,
Q Where uo you work?
A i work at the Womens Hospital.
Q Now, do you remember last New Year's Eve, December

31# 1984?
A Yes, I do*
Q Where were you tnat aay?
A I was at home*
Q Did something unusual happen?
A Yes.
Q What time?
A Just about 12s45. I was sitting in my kitchen. me

and a girl friend across tne street, she lives across the
street from me, we were sitting in the kitchen talking.

Q Go slowly.
What is her name?

A Johnson.
Q What happened?
A We were sitting in my kitchen talking and first X

had been across to ncr house and then I left her house and cam 
over to my house and we were sitting in the kitchen talking*

So about quarter to one I heard banging on my door
and I Jumped up out of the seat to the door to see what it waa 
I opened my door and there was police out there on the steps

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they said. Police, open up# X said, what's going on.
So the police just came on in and they went on 

through and when the otner officer came in ...
<4 How many officers came in?
A a don’t, Know, it was so many', it was seven or 

eight, X guess.
Q nnd did they say anything to you?
A Ine ones that came in with the guns, they didn't 

Bay anything, they Kept going through the house, A colored 
officer came in and he told me to stand on the side and I have 
a chair at my winnow ...

Q I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
A I have a chair sitting at my window in the living 

room and he told me to stand there.
X asked him what was going on and he said they had 

a tip from one of my neighbors that the Veney brothers was at 
ray house. I said X didn't Know anything about the Veney 
brothers and he said, you have a daughter named Tina? I said 
I have a daughter and her name is Theresa I said, ahe's only 
fifteen years old.

He said, we have a tip from one of your neighbors 
that your daughter was going with one of the Veney brothers.
X said, my daughter don't know anything about any Veney 
brothers, I never heard of them before. So he said, well, we 
got a tip and we have to search the house.

147



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210

So in the meantime I told him my sows was upstairs,, 
They went on up —  he told me to stand where I was at in the 
living room, so 1 stayed theree

Q tonile this conversation was going on what were the 
other policemen doing?

A They were going all through the house and my girl 
frieno, she got up from the kitchen and came in the front room,, 
She said to the officers there was somebody around there that 
didn't like us.

THE COURT: She said what?
(The answer was read by the reporter.)
ThE COURT* The girl friend said that somebody 

down there ...
MR. NABRIT* Around there,
THE WITNESS* In the neighborhood, that called the

police.
BY MR. NABRIT*

Q Now, tell me what the officers were doing, what 
rooms did they go into?

A I remained in the living room, they went through 
the house. My two sons, oldest sons \<as upstairs in bed, my 
youngest son was in the back room. So they went upstairs and 
my ...

i
k Did you go upstairs at all?
A No, I didn't go up. They told me to stem where I



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was.
Q How many floors to the house?
A It’s only a two-story house.
Q Do you have a basement or cellar?
A Yes, I have a cellar.
Q Did the officers go there that you know?
A Huh?
Q Do you know whether or not the officers went there1
A They went in the cellar also after they went up­

stairs. They came down and went in the cellar. I told them I 
had a switch on the side of the wall so they could turn it on 
to go down.

Q Light switch?
A Yes.
Q Did you observe the officers do anything else?

What else happened, in other words?
A Well, they went upstairs —  after they went upstairi 

my sons were in bed and they came down, ray sons, they came 
down, this officer he askea me my name, the one that stood in 
the front room with me,

Q After they searched-they asked you your name?
A No, Just this one, the other ones didn’t say any­

thing to me.
149Q Go ahead.

A He asked me my nz*e, I told him, Rita Miles and



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he wrote that down. He asked me who lived there and I told 
him the children and myself. And he asked me where I worked 
and X told him.

arid he aa*ed me if my eon had a blaok leather coat 
he asked me whose coat was that hanging in there and I said 
it was my son's coat.

do 1 said to him X ooulon't imagine somebody doing 
anything as airty as that to me and he said, well, that happens 
in every neignborhooa, you Know, somebody may not like you.

Q Was your aaugnter —  Theresa is her name?
A YeB, we call her Toni.
Q Does she go to senool?
A Yes.
Q
A
Q
A
Q

Wnere?
She goes to i^U.
What graae?
She's in the 9th graae.
What happened after that, how long did they stay? 
They stayed about twenty five minutes.
Well, descrlb- what happened? Did anything elseQ

happen?

A After they went in the cellar they came back up and 
Bhowed me two pictures of the brothers and I told him I never 
seen them before. k >(

So they got ready and they left and the officer



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me I had a nice place and told me to keep my doors locked and 
I told him I will.

So after they went off, after they left I went to 
the door and all these police cars and big police trucks was 
out there and there was a lot of people out there looking,t
So I closed the door and went back In the house.

Q Now, your friend from across the street, was she
In the house with you all this time?

A Yes,
»

Q All the time the police were there ahe wa3 there?
A She was there.

MR. NABRIT: Your witness.
MR. SOUSE* One moment, please, Your Honor.
No questions. Thank you.
MR. NABRIT: All right, you may step down,

(Witness excused.)
MR. NABRIT: Mrs, Maggie Shepperd, please.
(Thereupon, Maggie Shepperd was called to wie stanc 

as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined 
and testified as follows:)

THE CLERK: State your name for the record?
THE WITNESS: Maggie Shepperd.
THE CLERK: Take the stand, please, Mrs. Shepperd.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
i 51BY MR. NABRIT:



214

Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A

. Q 
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q

grandson?
A

Where do you live, Mrs, Shepperd?
2003 North Monroe Street.
How long have you lived there?
Eighteen years.
Who lives there with you?
My grandson*
What is his name?
Hoscoe Cooper.
Ana his age, how old is he? 
rorty six.
and how old are you, Mrs. Shepperd?
Seventy two.
how long nave you Uvea in Baltimore?
Over i'lfty years,
Now, Mrs. Sheppera, what is the situation with your 

What?
1’sll ua about your grandson.

A My grandson is a sick veteran.
MR* SOUSH: Is what? I am sorry, I didn't hear thrt.
lHc. dOURi* Is a sick veteran.

Btf MR. NABRITi
Q What is wrong with nim?
A Mental.
Q Mental?



215

1 A Yes.
Q You mean he was In the war?
A Yes.
Q When was that?
A In '44.

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Q Do you get a —  who supports him moneywise?
A The Veterans. He asked them.
Q Do you get money from them?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember what happened on Wednesday, the 

6th of January this year?
A This year, yes.
Q Do you remember that Wednesday?
A Yes.
Q Start in the morning and tell us what you did that

1(5 day?
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A Well, I went down to the Veterans and got down 
there about nine o'clock, then we got ...

Q Was anybody with you?
A Yes.
Q Who was that?
A Miss Florence Snowden.
Q Where did the two of your go? 1,1
A Where did I go?
Q Where did you and Miss Snowden go then?



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A Yes.
Q You mean he was In the war?
A Yes.
Q, When was that?
A In '44.

(i q Do you get a —  who supports him money wise.?
7 A The veterans. He asked them.
s Q Do you get money from them?

A Yes.
10 Q Do you remember what happened on Wednesday, tne
11 6th of January this year?

This year, yes.
Do you remember that Wednesday?
Yes.
Start in the morning anu tell us what you dia that

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A Well, I went down to the Veterans and got down 
there about nine o'clock, then we got ...

Q Was anybody with you?
A Yes.
Q Who was that?
A Miss Florence Snowden.
Q Where did .the two of your go? y '

A Where did I go?
Q Where did you and Miss Snowden go then?



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A Went to the V.A., to the Veterans.
Q What time did you leave the V.A?
A Well, I guess we might have left there about, I

guess about half past ten or maybe a little bit later because 
when X got home it was half past eleven. We come right out 
and got a cab and when X got back to 20 03 North Monroe it was 
half past eleven,

Q Now, who was in the taxi cab?
A Nobody but me and Miss Snowden, Florence Snowden.
Q Where die the cab go first?
A Huh?
Q Where did the cab go first?
A Where dia he go first?
Q Yes.
A Went to her house first, went to 1913 Druid Hill 

Avenue first, then he took me from Druid Hill Avenue to 2003 
North Monroe Street. I gueBB that*s about half past eleven whji 
he got me home and about twenty minutes to twelve a bell rung 
and I was in the kitchen cooking chicken, and I was a little 
long getting to the door and a bam coiae on the door. And when 
I went to the door there was four police in uniform and a 
plalnclothesman with a light coat on, anc. when I opened the doj: 
I said, what's the matter, have you got a warrant? He pushed 
me against the wall and walkea on in and walked on back.

Well, when X went back to the dining room and looki

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again he had tuy grandson, one police on one arm and the other 
on the other arm taking him out without no hat and no coat and 
1 said, don't you taa.e my hoy out there witnout a coat ana nat 
on. Well, they uio give him time to get nxs nat ana cost and 
X tala —  he taia, you get reauy ana go, I'm going to lock you 
up. and X said, wnat nave i done for you to Iock me up?
He saia, I'la teii you when you get over there where I’m taki 
you, and then he give me time to get my hat and coat on and 1 
said, can I use ray telephone? ho, he said, you can't use no 
telephone here,

Q Who was this you were talking to?
A That plaineiothesman witn the long, light coat on. 

Whoever he was. X don't know who he was,
<4 What color was the coat?
A Light coat, ana these police come in and they had 

their rifles with them, had their rifles pointed Just like 
that, (Indicating), four of them. The plaineiothesman, he 
didn't, neve any, he aian't have any rifle, but the other four 
had them.

Ano then they took me out, I Bean my neighbor on 
the other side of me and X told her to please to get word to 
Miss Florence bnowden to come up, they were locking me up.

And then when I got out there I asked to use the 
phone and tney woulun't leave me use it.

Q Kow, wait a minute. When you left your house how



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did you go, did you go in a car?
A Yes, In a radio car,
Q Who was in the car?
A Another police and the gentleman that wa3 driving, 

whoever he was, and he said to me, if you didn't lie so much, 
he said, you wouldn't have to go out here, I said, lie about 
what, what have I done?, I said, and he took me on out there 
and took me up to the rail thare somewhere and some man was 

asking me .
THE COURT* Did they take the grandson, too?
THE WITNESS* My grandson, they took hii» too,
THE COURT* In the same car?
THE WITNESS* In the same car,
THE COURT* You didn't mention that he wa3 in the

car,
THE WITNESS* In the same car,

BY MR. NABRIT*
Q Now, they took you to the police station?
A They took me to the police station,
Q When you went into the door of the police station, 

what happened first?
A Well, they was questioning my grandson ana I said 

don't question him, I said, because he’s not able to answer 
for hlsself, question me and I'll tell you all about him,

Q What were the questions?



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A They asked his age and where he lived and who was 
taking care of him and that Is about all they asked him, Then 
they searched him there, took off his belt and his tie pin, 
took that off and then they took him back and when they took 
him back I said, don’t hurt that boy because he's a sick vaters 
I said to them.

Then they commenced on me, asked me my name, where 
I lived, how long I been In Baltimore, on like that.

Then they took me back and locked me up in a cell 
and wouldn’t even let me take my pocketbook in there with me. 
Said they’d put it in the hall ana nobody is going to take it, 
see, and then they took me from there ,,,

Q Bo you know where Roscoe was at this time?
A He’s locked up, Roscoe was already locked up in 

some place back there. Then someone told me to go in this root 
some room back there, then I asked to use the phone there.
They ted two phones and the police say they was looking for 
a long call or something. Then another tall police come in ... 

Q Did they allow you to use the telephone?
A No, they wouldn’t leave me U3e it. Then another 

police come in and said, mom, I didn’t bring you up here to 
hurt you, I brought you up here to ask some information. 1 saL 
information about what? I said, I ain*t got no information, I 
don't know anything about even what I'm locked up about.

Then I heard him 3ay, he told this other police, two

15$



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police to go down and get Miss Snowden and bring her here but 
don't go by yourself, he said to her, and that's all he said 
to her.

<4 Who xb hiss Snowaen.
A hiss Florence Snowden.
Q, How old is she, do you know?
A Huh?
Q bo you know about how old Miss Snowden is?
A wo, X don't know. X don't know how old Florence ii

I don't know, 1 don't exaotly know.
THE COURT* bo you know how old she is?
MRl NABRIT* hiss Snowden is seventy oud years

herself.
THE COURTi Is she the one who went down ...
MR. NAJbRiT* She‘s the one who went to the V.A,
THE COURTi She is the one who went down to the

V.A.
MR. SOUSE: Your Honor, I think this is very lmpor

tant and I think they ought to put all their witnesses on.
THE COURT* She heard that, Misa Snowden waan't 

there. She is the one that can testify to that.
MR. oOUSE: Just so we get them all, sir.
The. WITNeSSj And they went out and left all my 

lights on in the house until nine o'clock that night. The 
neighbors couldn't get in, they couldn't even turn my lights o

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And they went In every room in my house, he even 
tore my front room bed all to pieces, took the spread off and 
everything, and looked underneath the bed and everything like 
that and loft my lights on until nine o'clock that night,
BY MR, NABRITj

Q They searched while you were still back at tne
house?

A That's right,
Q Bid you see the officers go in different rooms in

your house?
A Huh?
Q When they first came in aid you see where they wen 4 

in your house?
A The plainclothesman went on back to the kitchen, 

they commenced in the kitchen and went on upstairs. Then he c<> 
downstairs and went on in the cellar and tore that cellar all 
to pieces, all to pieces,

Q Y/hat do you mean by that?
A I mean he went in everything, took everything out,,

the papers and everything and throwed them down on the floor, 
out of the cupboards, papers out of the cupboards, I suppose 
they was, I don't know how they got out there,

Q Now, when you were down at the police station and 
the officers said —  you said one officer sent another officer 
to go get Miss Snowden?

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A That*s right.
Q What happened after that?
A after wise onowoen, he didn’t say anything more 

after kiss bnowden came.
ie i«o, no, after wiey eunc fox* her?
a n- aaheu mo wnat went on, what conversation viaa In 

the taxi, x sale, wnut conversation, X sale, we wac talking 
about the business that went on when I went down to the 
Veterans about my boy’s allotment.

f -
X'Hh COURTa about your boy’s what? 
i‘ih. ilABRIT; Allotment, 
inn COURT; Allotment.

B¥ MR. HABRxf:
h wny hau you anu kiss onowaen gone to the.V.A?
a bhe vaent there with me to tena to some business

about the allotment.
^ What were you trying to ao?
A ves,
W, wnat were you trying to do?
A About money for ray boy.
Ci how, you tola tne officer —  what did the officer 

say? iou said he was questioning you, what did he asic you and 
what did you say?

A He asked me what conversation did you use coming
up in the cab? 1 said, I didn’t know any conversation more
than she was talking about my good boy. I said, I didn’t know

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any conversation wc had talked about*
Q What else did he ask you, the policeman ask you?
A bp to the jail?
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a nor ever It way, he don't usk me anything else

then, 'Ihey he went out ana said to Miss Snowden, and Mrs, 
Mitchell was out there, ana said 1 haa some irlencis out there, 
ana that's aucut ail he sale to me cut there,

W Did he say anything to you about the Veney brother^?
A About wnat?
'<J ihs Veney brothers,
A ho, he never said nothing to me aoout no Veney 

brothers,
<4 Diu the policeman »,,
A he don't say notning to me about no Veney brother^,
h Did he as* you whether or not you ware talking about

police or police being klliea in the taxi?
A He asked me what was we talking about in the taxi,
<4 what d a  you tell him?
A I told him we was talking about the business that 

went on in the Veterans, that's what I told him, and it has 
never mentioned the Veney brothers or whatever their names are,, 
And Miss Snowdon or me never mentioned any' names either,

<4 Do you Know anything about it?
A I don't know a thing about them. I wouldn't know

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them If I fell over them, I don't know a thing about them#
Q Ail right# what happened after the policeman told 

you that ifs, Mitchell and Mibb Snowden were there?
h Weil# then he come and let me out# let me out and 

oorao on out in tne hall,
i

Q dia he tell you you could go? 
a Yea,
h do you know of anything else the policeman said 

to you?
A I can't think of anything else he said to me,
y how did you leave there?
a toe lert —  Mrs, Mitchell and them brought me home,
k how long were you at the Jail, at the station?
A Well# 1 guess X got up there about —  I guess it

was a little after twelve when I got up there# I guess# and it 
was after two before X left there# I'm sure,

k have you ever been arrested before?
A ho,
k In all your life?
A No,
Q Have you ever been in trouble with the law at all? 
A No# indeed, no, no indeed# the first time I been 

in anything liKe that in my whole life# first time,
Q How about your son# you grandson# Rosooe?
A What about him?

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1 f t Has Hoscoe ever been in trouble with the law?
•) A Well, he's been in trouble with the law with some

boys, as a boy.
4 ft How rang ago was that?
f> A Hull?
(> ft How long ago waB that?
7 A That was when he waB seventeen years old?
s

Q How oia is he now?
!) k if he was seventeen years old, that's been a right

10 good many years.
11 ft How old is Hoscoe today, do you know about?
12 A Foi'ty six.
1.1 ft And ho hasn't been in any trouble since then?
14 A Ho.
15 ft is Roeoce sole to work?
10 A ho, indeed, he is totally disabled.
17 ft JAyea he have any other relative except you?
18 A With me?
19 ft hots Roscoe have any other relatives?.
20 A No. His mother, father and ali are dead.
21

f t And you look after him?
\>‘> A That's right.
22 f t How closely do you have to look after Hoscoe?
24 A Well, Hoscoe don't —  he hasn't been in the street
25 at night since »44 and when he goes out in the day he might go

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up there to the drug store and stand in the door and wait unt
he comeB back. He don't go out anywhere by hissulf,

Q When did Roscoe get out of the police station?
A Inc same time X ala.
Vi How, did you go down to the Mayor’s office alter

this?
A Right from the Jail, the thing where X was, yes,

I went right down there then.
Q What time did you get to the Mayor's office?
A bown to tne Mayor ' s oiTice,
h What iiappened down at the Mayor’s oiTice?
A What happened? Well, we was sitting there and we

was talking around and I don’t know that anything happened,
Q hid you see the Mayor?
A No.
Q Did you talk to anybocy who was with you?
A Miss Snowden, Mrs, Mitchell.
Q Who else, anybody else?
A Lot's sec I think Mrs. Mitchell's son was with th< 

Clarence.
Q That is Clarence Mitchell III, the State Assembly

man?
A Yes.
Q The State Legislator?
A Yes,

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MR. NABRITt Your witness.
CROSS EXAMINATION

BY m .  SOUSE:
<4 Now, Mrs. Shepperd, didn't you talk to the State's 

Attorney for Baltimore City down at the City Nall?
A I don't know the State's Attorney from anybody els 

I don't know him.
Q Mr. i4oylan?
A I don't know him.
Q You didn't talk to Mr. Moylan?
A I didn't talk to anybody. I thought it was the 

police there, that's all I talked to.
Q At the City Hall, the Mayor's office?
A No, not me.
Q And you didn't tell Mr, Moylan that you knew him?
A Of course, I didn't. I don't know Mr. Balden.

Some gentleman comes up there and shook hands with me but I 
don't know him,

Q Mr. Moylan?
A I don't know .him. Whatever his name 1b , I don't

know him.
THE COURT: She seems to have the name wrong. Do

you know Mr, Moylan?
THE WITNESS No, sir, 1 don't know him. There was 

a gentleman there talking to me and Miss Snowden, if that was
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him* He wasn’t talking to me particular, he was talking to
both of U3»
BY MR* SOUSE:

0. And didn't you tell him that you knew him and that 
he knew you?

A No, indeed, no*
Q You are certain of that?
A I am certain of it, yes, air,
Q Now, dlu Mias Snowden tell him that?
A I aon't know what Mias Snowden told him* I wasn't 

paying that much attention* 1 don't know what Mias Snowden 
told him.

q - Miss Snowden is Mrs, Juanita Jackson's aunt, isn't
she?

A Aunt?
Q Isn't she relatca to her?
A Yes*
Q All right, how is she related to her?
A To Mrs, Mitchell?
Q That's rignt.
A X guess that is Mrs* Mitchell's aunt*
Q That is what I said*
A Yes*
H And tors. Mitchell and Miss Snowden came

police station together, didn't they?
*87



229

l A That*8 right, we all came together,

Q You came with the police I thought?
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A Come with the police?

k lea*
A Mo, indoeu,

liii. COURT: 1 am not sure if you ...
THKWWxTMEHS ; Mo, indeed,
THE COURTS You are too fast for her. You have 

got her back at the police station now. She’s still at City Hall*
MR, SOikCt She old awfully well on direct. Your

Honor,
THE COURTS Ail right,
MR, NAhRxT: Your Honor, 1 think serious consider­

ation ought to be given to the age of the witness by counsel. 
Pardon me for sitting. Your Honor, in addressing the Court,

THu COURT: All right,
MR, HABRXT: Your Honor, I think that —  I mu3t

request that counsel give appropriate, definite consideration 
to the age of the witness to make sure that 3 h e  understands 
the questions,

THE COURT: It is futile cross examination, the
Court has concluded that she doesn’t, and my impression v;a3 
that 3‘ne didn’t understand the question, so I think you had 
better clear up what you want to clear up, what conversation 
you are talking about.



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BY MR, SOUSE*
Q New, Miaa Snowden and Mrs, Mitcnell came to the 

police station to see you* they came together, didn't they, 
down to the police station?

A I think they did. When X seen them they were 
together, X was hack there in the room,

Q You were back there ir. the room with the police 
officer?

A With somebody, I don't know who he was, X guess 
it was an officer,

Q Bid he have a uniform on?
A X think he did,
Q Well, then he was a police officer?

MR, NABRIT: He is arguing with the witness,
THE COURT* Mr. Souse, that is not the way to be 

successful in this court.
Go ahead,
MR, SOUSE* I don't understand, Your Honor.
THE COURT* Go ahead. Don't argue with her. She 

said she was talking to a man who had a police officer's uni­
form on, and you say then he must have been a police officer. 
There is no use arguing with her, you have got the point you 
want, go ahead to the next point,
BY MR, SOUSE* < £ 3

230

Q Now, you w re in a taxi cab earlier that day with



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KIbb Snowclena isn't that correct?
A That's right«
Q And didn't Miss Snowden say to you that —  didn't 

sne say something about you were a 4’ooi or you were foolish?
A Four?

The, COURT* 1 am not sure she is hearing you be- 
cause when she repeats your question sne repeats it wrong every 
time,
b* MR, SOUSE*

Q Didn't Miss Snowden say to you that you were a fool 
or you were foolish?

A That sne was foolish, X don't remember her saying 
to me I was foolish,

<i Didn't sne say —  didn't you say, I wouldn't call
you that, I wisn X hadn't taken you aown to the Veterans with
me?

A I can't remember Florence saying that to me, I 
really don't,

l Q Did you tell her you wi3h you hadn't taken her with 
you?

THE COURT* 
Mr., SOUSE* 
THE COURT* 
MR. SOUSE* 
THE WITNESS*

When?
In the taxi cab.
We are still in the taxi cab? 

Still in the taxi cab,
I might have said that to her$ raigh'

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232

have aald lta I don't; know,
Q You might have aald that to her, and didn't aha

aay to you, you wouldn't have gotten anything II I hadn't been 
with you?

A woman‘t nave got anything? No, she didn't aay th^t
to me,

NR, NABrU.li ubjeot to the relevancy of thia line 
of questioning,

liiu dOUR'fi 1 presume it la leading up to something. 
It is obvious that these immediate questions have no materiality 
or relevancy but 1 can't imagine that they are being asked if 
they are not leading up to something, and we have to give him 
a little time to develop something,
BY MR. bOUSBs

Q Now, didn't Mrs, bnowden aay to you, " That fool 
son of yours

A J?ool son?
Q "...when he gets some liquor in him, you know he 

ehot a policeman?"
A No, no, she did not, bnot a police, no, she did 

not say it, no, sir, she dia not,
Bid you have any conversation about shooting any

police ?
i 71A No, X aid not,

Q Did you hear anyone at the Mayor's office say that



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there was some conversation about shooting a policeman?
A No, I did not hear It.
Q And did you tell anyone In the Mayor's office thai; 

the only thing you said was that you were glad you had a good 
boy who wouldn't shoot a policeman?

A No, sir, I did not say that.
Q All right,
A I did not say It.
Q Now, this car driver, the cab driver that you had 

when you came back from the Veterans, did you have any conver­
sation with him?

A I ain't had no conversation with him, not a soul,
I didn't open my mouth to him.

Q Did he say anything to you?
A No Indeed he didn't say anything to me.
Q And did you know hia?
A Know him? No Indeed I didn't know him.
Q Had you ever Been him before?

A I have never seen that bird, that boy before, never
In my life.

MR, SOUSE* That 1b all, thank you,
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRITt
Q When you got out of the taxi cab, Mrs. Shepperd,

did you pay the driver?



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A Yee.
Q Hov; much we a the fare?
A file fare, let me ace, what hid I pay that man? 

x gxve the uou -jv<r for a txp, x uun‘v know* I think he charged 
me u uoxxax*, x think he charged me something like that,
1 thin* he uxu, ouw x know x gave hxw i?uf for a tip, l think 
he charged iue epy;, something like that*

nxu «e say anything to you about the fare?
Thu COURT ; About what?
iui, ihuiiiXi.; Rare, the fare, the taxi fare, 
x witnuraw that.
no further questions*

(Witness excused*)
THE COURT* Are you going to calx MiBS Snowden? 
ill, NAiiKxT* X woula like, if Your Honor's scheduli 

would permit a five minute reoesB, 1 have put on several 
witnesses ana 1 would like to .*,

Ilia COURT* Well, that is all right but I think yi 
had better call Miss Snowaen. I think we ought to hear from 
Hiss onowden.

MR. NABRITj Ail right.
THE COURT: We will take a short recess.
(Recess.)

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MR. NABRIT: Mrs. Florence Snowden.

Thereupon
MRS. FJ-ORENCE SNOWDEN

was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified 
as follows:

THE CLERK: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Mrs. Florence Snowden.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Where do you live, Mrs. Snowden?
A 1930 Druid Hill Avenue.
Q How long have you lived there?
A Twenty years.
Q What is your age?
A Seventy-two. It will be seventy-three the

nineteenth of this month.
Q Where were you bora?
A B o m  in Baltimore City =
Q How long have you lived in the City?
A Lived in Baltimore all my life, seventy-two

years.
Q Do you know Mrs. Maggie Sheppard?
A I do, yes.
Q How long have you known her?

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A I've been knowing her since 1917 when we met
together in Bethel Irving Church as church workers, and been 
friends ever since, like sisters.

Q Do you belong to any community groups?
A I am president since 1937 of Northwest

Residential Protective Association, and our aim was to 
dispresent taverns on Druid Hill Avenue, McCullough Street 
and Madison Avenue in northwest Baltimore, and that has been 
my activity as a social worker.

Q How about church?
A In the church I'm in the Missionary Society and

president of one of the clubs and a regular attendant.
Q And do you know Mrs. Sheppard in any of those?
A I know that Mrs. Sheppard since her son has

been disabled, she hasn't been able to attend church 
regularly because she stays home with him, and I pay her 
church dues for her every Sunday, and she is a member, active 
member through her financial support to the Missionary 
Society and the church proper.

Q Now, do you remember January 6, 1965?
A I do.
Q You remember that?
A Yes.
Q Did you see Mrs. Sheppard that day?
A That's right.



3
Q When was that?
A Mrs. Sheppard called me the night before and

asked me would I go with her dc*wn to the Veterans’ Administra­
tion to see about an increase in her son's allotment.

When you say her son, who do you mean?
Roscoe Cooper.
And she calls him her son?
That’s right.
Is that her grandson?
That's actually her grandson.
All right.
She’s had him since he was three years old. 
died.
All right. Now, what happened when you saw

She got a cab at her door and came to my door, 
1930 Druid Hill Avenue, and we got in the cab and we went to 
the Veterans' Administration, and that was about ten o'clock. 
The appointment was for ten o'clock.

Q Did you go somewhere else?
A No, we went first to the bank. The bank is

her administration, I think. Her checks comes through the 
bank, but she has to go the Veterans' Administration for an 
increase.

Q And that's what you did that day?
A That's what vre did that day.

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Her daughter

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Q And who did you see there?
A I saw the lawyer for the Veterans'. 1 can't

remember his name. It was not name, and his secretary-- 
q And how long were you there?
A We were there, I guess, about a-half-a-hour.

About eleven o'clock or a little after we came out.
Q And this was the business discussed there?
A That was our business, yes.
Q Now, what was your role in that meeting?
A My role, was in that meeting when such words as

rehabilitate himself and like as that I know the meaning 
better than she would, end he knowed, the lawyer knowed that 
he was, the medical report, he's one hundred per cent 
disability.

Q So you were there to help your friend out?
A That's right.
Q Then did you all get in some kind of a little

argument?
A No, no, just when we came out, there was a

delay, there was a little delay on giving her two tons of 
coal, and I was talking for the coal delivery right away.
If not I'd have to advance it for her.

Q You mean to the lawyer?
A To the lawyer, for the administration, to the

Veterans 1
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Q And did she go along with that or what?
i A She said, "Well, you know, I'll wait," and I

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said, "Well, you wait for two weeks, and you can't go without 
coal for two weeks. I'll put it In and pay for it, and

4 they'll pay me," but they did right away the next day put the
.)

coal in.
(i

q  I see. And you were kind of put out about
7

that?
s

A Yes.
!)

q When you got in the taxicab?
10 A Yes, and there was the insurance money that was
11 due the Veterans' and it wasn't paid him and I was trying to
12 get that for him, and I think it will come certain.

• 12 Q All right. When you got— how did you leave
14 the Veterans' Administration? What did you do?
15 A When we left the Veterans' Administration we
I B hailed a cab. He was in the second lane and pulled to the
17 pavement right at Fayette and St. Paul Street, and we got in,
18 and that's all we were saying, talking in the cab about,
1!) about, "I hope you get your coal," and I hope, you know, I
2 0 want everything at one time, you know, and I was just talkin',
21 like that, discussing it, discussing our business about the

•
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22 in us, and he was sitting in the front seat and we were just
24 sitting in the back seat.
25 < 78



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Q Now, did you, in this conversation with Mrs. 
Sheppard about coal, this was all in the taxicab?

A Yes, that's right.
Q Were you put out about this, talking about the

coal?
A I was only put out because 3he was saying, she

thought 1 was maybe, you know, asking, didn't want to get the 
gentleman angry, you know, about getting this increase, you 
know, how they, you know, like with people who are poor 
sometimes, and I just said we should get more on the check 
each month.

Q And that's all the conversation was. Were you
talking about the police in the cab?

A No, no, that was all the conversation it was.
Q Was there any conversation about the police?
A No indeed.
Q Was there any conversation about the Veney

240

brothers?
A Not a word in that cab.
Q You were talking about Roscoe?
A Yes, Roscoe, yes, what a good boy Roscoe was

because that's what we went down to see after Roscoe'8 
allotment because a good boy like Roscoe is, and we don't 
have to live cheap, and we wanted more money, and the expense 
of living is more.

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That was our errand to go down and get an 
increase in this payment, and then it didn't take on long to 
get to coy house, to Druid Hill Avenue from Fayette Street.

Q Now, when you got to your house you got out?
A 1 got out, yes, and I even said to her, "Give

him a tip"because sane of these cab drivers say we don't tip, 
but we do.

Q Did you pay the cab driver?
A Oh, no, because the first one I told them to

pay, and the last one paid the taxi man, and I was the first 
one out.

Q What time was this when you got there?
A Well, that was about eleven-thirty, I guess.

We were, went to the bank at ten, and that gentleman was a 
little late, and then we went down to the Veterans' Administrn 
tion, 1 guess about a block below, about a-half-hour, and we 
didn't stay too long there. You know they don't take too 
much time with you.

So we was about, X guess, about eleven or a 
little later when we came out and got s cab; and when I got 
home it must have been near twelve o'clock.

Q What did you do after that?
A 1 went on home.
Q And after you got home, than what?
A I got home, and I had to attend to— I have an

241

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apartment that 1 rent, and I have a vacancy, and 1 left my 

home right away to go to 1136 Druid Hill Avenue.

Q You left your home at--
A I left my home at 1930 Druid Hill Avenue to go

to 1136 Druid Hill Avenue, ray family home.
THE COURT: To go to 1136?

THE WITNESS: 1136 where I have ray family home.

THE COURT: And your home is 1930 Druid Hill

Avenue?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that’s right, and I have

an apartment house I rent, and I went down there to see about, 

I had an appointment to meet a tenant to move in, and when-- 

you want me to tell what happened?

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Well, now, did you later see Mrs. Sheppard

that afternoon?
A I ’m trying to lead up to it.

Q Well--
THE COURT: Let her go ahead.

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Go ahead.
A While I was at 1136 Druid Hill Avenue I had

called Mrs. Mitchell's office to tell my husband to pick me 

up at that office, which is the only reason why that I ever 

found out that Mrs. Sheppard was arrested.

242

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The call came from Mrs. Mitchell's secretary to 
1136, my tenant's first floor phone,"Miss Snowden, Miss 
Snowden, your friend, Miss Sheppard's locked up."

Oh, 1 jumped up and ran out the door and got a 
cab at the comer of Baltimore and Druid Hill Avenue. I 
rushed up to my next door neighbors who called, in turn who 
had called Miss, the next door neighbor, to call Mrs. Mitchell, 
office to find out where can she find Mrs. Snowden.

Am 1 talking too fast?
Q Did you eventually get together with Mrs.

Juanita Mitchell?
A I finally got with Mrs. Mitchell, but Deforc­
es Go ahead.
A But before 1 got to Mrs. Mitchell my neighbor

had the next door neighbor Mrs. Sheppard to tell me what 
happened.

She come for Miss Sheppard had told her to 
notify Mrs. Snowden because the Police Department wouldn't 
let her call nobody.

Then— shall I go ahead?
Q Well—

THE COURT: Well, I understand a message gets
to her and she gets to Mrs. Mitchell.

THE WITNESS: That's right.
THE COURT: Let's move along. Let's move on

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from that.
THE WITNESS: That's right.

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Is Mrs. Mitchell related to you, Mrs. Juanita

Mitchell?
A Mrs. Mitchell is toy niece.
Q And did you all go somewhere and get her?
A Mrs. Mitchell, I figure, I figured that in any

of those things I ought to have a lawyer because I don't see 
as a layman I could get her out.

So I went and got Mrs. Mitchell as a lawyer to 
go with me to see if I could get Mrs. Mitchell out— get Mrs. 
Sheppard out.

Q Did you all go?
A So we went in the car with Mrs. Mitchell and

went to north— because we were a little bewildered because 
at first they said Northeastern, but we didn't know what it 
was all about, but Mrs. Snowden, Mrs. litchell found out i t  

was at Northwestern, and we went to Northwestern.
Q Now, what happened when you got there?
A When we got to Northwestern, why Mrs. Mitchell

went to the desk and asked about Mrs. Sheppard, and they in 
c um released Mrs. Sheppard to her, to Mrs. Mitchell.

Q Did you have any conversation with any of the
officers you saw there at that time?

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A Yes, one of the officers^in the station house
came to me in the assembly room at the station house and said
to me, "We were going to send for you."

Send for me for what?
He says, "Why you was talking in the cab about 

the Veney brothers."
What Veney brothers? I said, "Why, I don't 

know them." I said we were discussing in a cab, and 1 said-- 
q Go slower, slow down.

THE COURT: I think you had better let her tell
her own story. Mr. Owens can take it. He's taken faster 
than that.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Tell us in your own way. Go ahead. I'm sorry
Go ahead.

A And so he said, I says, "Well, I'm going to tel]
all ay background, who I was, and how I knew Captain Poole, 
how I knew Captain Horton, how I worked in the community with 
the police officers—

THE COURT: No, let's not get into that.
THE WITNESS: You don't want that? Oh, I see

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Now, what did the officers say to you about the

taxicab?
A Well, then he said, "Didn't you discuss the

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Veney brothers in the cab?"
I said, "No, I did not." All I was saying was 

that Mrs. Sheppard got a wonderful boy, end that's all we 
discussed in the cab.

Q Well, what did the officer say to you then?
A Then I 3a id--*
Q What did the officer say to you?
A Then he said the taxi driver man said that

"you had a conversation."
1 said, "Bring him in, bring him in here and 1 

will face him," and he didn't bring him in. He was in uh. 
hall but he didn't bring him in to let me face him, wouiixi't 
let me face him.

Q The taxi driver was in the hall?
A Yes.
Q What did the officer say to you? Did the

officer say to you what the cab driver said?
A The officer said the cab driver said we were

discussing the Veney brothers.
Q Are you sure about that?
A Yes.
Q Withdraw the question.

Now, after you left the jail, did you go 
anywhere after that?

A We went to the-- the ministers had been saying

LS5

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that—

Q No, don't discuss that. Tell us where you wen

A Oh, no complaints, so, so we went down to the

Mayor's office to let the Mayor see that there were some 

complaints about the policemen coming into the home without 

a warrant.

Q And what happened down there?

A And down there they sent for the State's

Attorney to come over, and Mr. Moylan came over, and 1 do 

know Mr. Moylan personally, and he was very courteous to us.

Q Who is he?

A Mr. Charlie Moylan.

Q What's his job?

A His job is State's Attorney for Baltimore City.

Q Who did you make the complaint to? To him?

A We were going to make it to him and the Mayor,

and the Mayor was coming out at one time, and they sent word 

that he was busy and he couldn't come out.

THE COURT: Is that all?

MR. NABRIT: Yes.

You may examine.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. MURPHY:
Q Mrs. Snowden, now in the cab all you say you

talked about was what a good boy Roscoe was?



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A That's right.
Q And that the Veney brothers were never mentions
A That's right.
Q What, if any, conversation did you have with

the cab driver?
A None whatever, never talked to the cab driver

in all my riding around.
Q Now, when you went to the Mayor's office--
A What's that?
Q When you went to the Mayor's office you say you

discussed this matter with State's Attorney Moylen?
A Judge Moylen.
Q Was that in the presence of Mrs. Sheppard?
A Mrs. Sheppard was sitting in a chair she was,

and she was sitting in a chair, and we got up to meet Mr. 
Moylan when he came into the Mayor's office, and he politely 
shook our hands.

Q She knows Mr. Moylan as well as you do?
A No, she doesn't.
Q She doesn't know him at all?
A Total stranger, no, this is the first time

she's ever seen him. 1 knew him in my civic work.
Q Do you know the name of the officer at North­

western to whom you spoke?

LS7A Do 1 what?



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Q The name of the officer at Northwestern Police
Station to whom you spoke?

A No, 1 don't know him.
q You say that the police officer said that they

had the cab driver there?
A That's what he said, but I didn't see him, and

then when I went out in the hall the gentleman who was talkin, 
I don't know whether he was a uniformed police because he had 
a sweater on, a tall gentleman, and they tell me he was a 
sergeant of the riot squad.

Q He told you he was a sergeant?
A I don't know. Someone said he was a sergeant.

I don't know who he was. All I know he came in there to tel 
us that he had, was questioning Mrs. Sheppard, and ’"if you 
all don't talk no more, we'll all go get her and bring her 
out, and let you have her."

THE COURT: Say that again.
THE WITNESS: What did you say?

BY MR. MURPHY:
Q I asked you if you knew the officer, could

identify the officer to whom you spoke concerning the cab 
driver?

I could not identify him no more than he was a 
tall white gentleman that had a sweater on, and he was the 
one that was questioning, whoever he was, the one who was

?NS

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questioning Mrs. Sheppard, was back in the cell, was question! 
her when we came in.

Then he come out to find out who we were, and 
we were the people who came to find out what she was doing 
locked up, but we didn't know, and he was giving us the 
information.

TiE COURT: Now, what did he say?
THE WITNESS: He said that what the cab driver

said, that "you all were discussing the Veney brothers in the
cab."

I 3aid, "Oh, no, we weren't. All we were 
saying was what 3 fine boy he is/'

THE COURT: Well, I think she lost the track
of it, of the statement that 1 think the Reporter did not 
quite get and I know I did not quite get.
BY MR. MURPHY:

Q Have you seen the police officer in the court­

room today?
A I don't know. It was a tall light, a tall

white gentleman.
MR. MURPHY: Mr. Cadden, would you stand up?
THE WITNESS: No, he’s taller than that, tails

than that.
MR. MURPHY: Would you identify yourself,

250

Officer?



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Squad.

A VOICE: Lieutenant James Cadden, Homicide

THE WITNESS: However, whoever saw--Mr8.
Mitchell can tell better than I can because I'm older, and I 
don't know, I can't see too good.

No, he ain't the man, no. He don't look like

the man to me.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Lieutenant.
THE WITNESS: No, he's a tall man, more

settled man than he. He's nothing but a young man.
MR. MURPHY: Bear with us for a moment, Your

Honor.
BY MR. MURPHY:

Q Mrs. Snowden, while you were at the Mayor's
office on this day with State's Attorney Moylan was there, 
was there any discussion about shooting a police officer at 

all?
A No.
Q None at all?
A No.
Q Did you say or did you hear Mrs. Sheppard say

at any time that you had a boy who would not shoot a police 
officer?

A Good boy, she's got a good boy, yes, a good
boy who wouldn't shoot no policeman, no.

251

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Q Who would not shoot a police officer?
A No, I don't remember whether I said that or not

but I was praising what a good boy he was. He was a good 
boy, and never, never, we are law-abiding citizens.

Q You are referring now to Mr. Cooper?
A Mr. Roscoe Cooper, and his grandmother, Mrs.

Maggie Sheppard.
Q And you did say, did you not, if I understand

you: testimony correctly that you both denied that Mr. Cooper 
would ever shoot a police officer?

A He would never shoot a police officer; he would
never shoot a police officer, no, no, a good boy, would not 
shoot no police officer.

Q Did you say that to anyone in the Mayor's offici

say that?
A
Q
A

Q

No.
While Mr. Moylan was present?
No.
"That Leroy was a good boy who would not shoot

8 police officer"?
A Would never shoot a police officer.

Q Not Leroy, I'm sorry; Roscoe Cooper.
Roscoe Cooper?

A What?
THE COURT: Well, I think she has answered

191



question in a way that is not entirely unclear to me, but she 

has answered it several times, and since the question was 

raised, I gather that 3he did tell Mr. Moylan that the grand­

son of her friend was a good boy and he wouldn't shoot a 

police officer, but that that was possibly said in the 

conversation with Mr. Moylan, but she has no recollection of 

saying anything like that in the taxicab.

253

her testimony.

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Now, that’s the substance of it, as I understand
132

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, very much, Mrs. Snowder.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

MR. NABRIT: I have no further questions.

(Witness excused.)

MR. NABRIT: I have another witness.

THE COURT: I hope it will not be very long.

MR. NABRIT: No, sir.
THE COURT: Because I want to talk to you a

little more about the subpoenas.

MR. NABRIT: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: But how late will it be? Do you

think it will be all day Monday?
MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, as of this point, I

don’t know, but I'll try to let you knoW\
THE COURT: You want to have one more witness?



254

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MR. NABRIT: All right.
V

THE COURT: Do you have other witnesses here on
\

this question of the anonymity?
MR. NABRIT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Well, let's see. Does the State

dispute that the phone calls in this region down at--where 
was it?

MRS. MITCHELL: Huron.
THE COURT: That that was an anonymous phone

call.
MR. SAUSE: Your Honor, this is all news to us

today, and we had—
MR. HABRIT: I gave you all this.
THE COURT: Well, I just want to know whether

it's worth while.
MR. MURPHY: Well, when it's coupled with

other names it makes it quite impossible.

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THE COURT: Well, the only question is that
two people said the officer said that they were anonymous 
calls.

MR. MURPHY: Yes,
THE COURT: Now, is that disputed, and if you

have the calls of these people end they said they heard them, 
if you dispute that the officer said that, I'm not question­
ing it.



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I think you could Just ask one

MR. MURPHY: I don't know which officer it is.
If they identify the officer by name, but it's impossible the

Vway it iby
MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, could we have one

more witness today?
THE COURT: 

question about it.
xMR. NABRIT: Yes.
THE COURT: And then you put one person on for

that question and then one other witness on that question.
You can Just put it on with respect to who came 

in the house and what she heard with respect to any officer 
saying anything about why they were there.
Thereupon

ELIZABETH DONNELLA WALLACE
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
and, having been first duly sworn, wss examined and testified 
88 follows:

THE CLERK: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Elizabeth Donnella Wallace.
THE CLERK: Is that Miss or Mrs?
THE WITNESS: Mrs.
THE CLERK: Mrs. Elizabeth Donnella Wallace.

255

\ 98



236
DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q State your full name, Mrs. Wallace?
A My name is Elizabeth Donnella Wallace.
Q And your address?
A My address is 2408 Huron Street.
Q And you have been in the courtroom here today,

during the hearing today and heard your daughter Lucinda and 
Henrietta testify?

A Yes, I was.
Q Now, they talked about— where were you that night

they testified about? Were you at home when the officers 
arrived? Were you at home when the officers came that night 

A No, I wasn't at home.
Q Where were you?
A I was in my business, a beauty shop.
Q Where is that located?
A That is located at 2356 Highland Ferry Road.
Q Where is that located?

THE COURT: That doesn't make any difference.
MR. NABRIT: All right. I'm trying to

establish this.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Where is that with relation to your house?
A Well, that's about, about four houses from my

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house where I live.

Q How long have you lived in Chat house?
A Twenty-one years.
Q The same house twenty-one years?
A The same house. The only thing, it has been

remodeled.
Q Now, did anything unusual happen, and if so,

describe for us what happened, as briefly as possible?
A Well, as briefly as possible—

THE COURT: Well, I don’t think you have to,
if she doesn't know anything about their coming in.

MR. NABRIT: Well, Your Honor, I have to—
THE COURT: Did she hear anything the officer

said?
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Did you hear anything?
THE COURT: Or how the officers happened to

come to her house?
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Answer the Judge's question?
THE COURT: Did you hear the officer say any­

thing?
THE WITNESS: Yes, yes.
Judge, Your Honor, Judge, Your Honor, if I may 

say, if you will give me the privilege to say.

J 3 5



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THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: I, I have to explain it in this

manner because I was at my place o£ business working, and I 
heard the knock on my door, and 1 opened the door, and Hr. 
Redmond came in, and he said Mrs. Wallace, he said, "What is 
wrong at your house?" He said, "There, the whole place is 
flooded with police cars and policemen and machine guns, and 
they're going all through your house."

So I ran out of the business and left the door 
open. I W6S working on a customer, and when I ran out I had 
to pass the alley and three doors before I could get up to 
my home, and I saw all these cars, and 1 saw a big, big, I 
guess a patrol wagon with, you know, lights, a lot of bright 
lights up there and everybody, there was so many people 
standing in the street.

So I ran up to an officer and I said, "tty God, 
what is happening in coy house?"

So he said, he said, "What is your name?"
I said, "Well, I live there."
He said, "Well, what is your name? Is your

name Wallace?"
I said, "Yes, my name is Elizabeth Wallace."
So he said, "Well, this is 2408 Huron Street?"
I said, "Yes." I said, "What's going on in

* 9 Gthe house?"



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So he said, "Don't go in there."
So I said, "Well, please, somebody tell me what

is going on?"

minutes."
So he said, Veil, they'll be out in a few

So I, then I got upset because I didn't know wha
was going on in the house after leaving the home respectfully 
when I left home and when, well, it got me upset because I 
didn't know what had happened in the house, and seeing these 
policemen, seeing all these policemen, I could see all these 
policemen, and I could see that my door, the door was open, 
and 1 could see them coming down my stairs and coming out the
door.

So the policeman said that I was talking with,
he said, "Well, just calm yourself; they'll be out in a few
minutes."

1 said, "Please, somebody tell me what is going
on in the house?" I said, "If you will only just tell me 
what is going on in the house?"

out."
"Well," he said, "We're waiting until they get

So at that time there was some coming out on
the porch and I started knocking on the door. So he said, 
"Well,"we had gotten, after we got near the porch, and I was 
upset, and the children ran out and grabbed me, and we all wan

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So the policeman said, "Well, we got an anon­
ymous phone call."

So I said, "What kind of phone call?" Well, at 
the first time he didn't say what kind of phone call it was 
until I was there, so he said, "Sit down," and I sat down on 
the sofa, and they said, "Well, we had a phone call that the 
Veney brothers was hiding out here."

I said, "Well, I don't know anything about them, 
and I guess I still was upset, and the children they all 
started to crying, at least Sharon and Henrietta started to 
crying, and some of them asked something about ammonia or 
something, and I just felt limp, and I just sat there until 
the policemen all said, "Well, Mrs. Wallace, there is nothing 
to be excited about now." They say, "We just got this phone 
call that the Veney brothers were in your house," and 
naturally ray legs were shaking and my teeth were chattering, 
and I just couldn't talk.

THE COURT: All right.
THE WITNESS: They stayed around there and

someone gave me some spirits of ammonia. Something 1 did 
hear one officer say, "Well, Sharon, do you have some spirits 
of ammonia?" So Sharon, one of the girls said, "Well, I 
have some here," and they said it wasn’t strong, and he said 
something about--

i 98

upset.



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MR. NABRIT: No.
THE COURT: Of course, she was very much upset.

There is no question about that. I'm sure it must have been 
a distressing and terrifying experience.

MR. NABRIT: All right, sir.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Now, Mrs. Wallace, did you hear any other
officers coament about why they were there or was that all?

A That is the only thing I heard them say that the
had, that they had the anonymous phone call, they had the 
fellow out there, but they didn't show me any identification 
or anything that they had.

Q Did you see any warrants?
A 1 didn't see any warrants because 1 asked them,

I asked him, well, who let them in and there was no one said 
anything about they had a warrant or anything.

Q Now, did you make any complaints about this?
A Well, I had to get myself together and had to

go back and shut the place up, and I told the officers—
Q Later on I mean?
A I didn't make any complaints right at that time.
Q Well, that*8 all right. Now, did you try to

get in touch with the Mayor or Governor about that?
A Well, I say not at that instant.

THE COURT: Well, did you try to get in touch

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262
with the Mayor?

THE WITNESS: I did, yes, I did.

THE COURT: And attempt to see a lawyer? Did

you see a lawyer first?
THE WITNESS: I tried to get in touch with the

Mayor first, and I'm sorry, and the Mayor, I didn't call him < 

that time, no, sir; but I called the Police Headquarters and 

I complained to them about it.
When I called they said to me, "Well, did they 

come in your house?"
I said, ’Yes." So I said— "Well," they said, 

"What do you want us to do about it?"
"Well," I said, "Well," I said, "The damage has 

been done." And, I say, "It's just that now we are all 

upset," and I said, "We are just as much with the law for 

apprehending the Veney brothers as anyone else," I said, ''But 

we would like respect when they come in our home, ' I said, 

"Because we don't know what you're coming in for xml ess you 

show us a warrant."

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Did you get in touch with anybody else?

A The next morning, yes. I called Governor

McKeldin's office. I was told-- tin;
Q Mayor McKeldin.

A --that I couldn't talk to Mayor McKeldin. The;



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asked me what did I want to talk with him about. I said, "Wd 
that I wanted to make a complaint."

They said, "Well, what kind of complaint?"
I said, "Well, about the Police Department." 
They said, '*Well, I'm sorry that he does not hav 

anything to do with that part of it. You have to contact thi 
State."

Q And then?
A Then at that time before I moved from the phone

that morning, I then called the office in Baltimore and 
Annapolis and asked to speak to Governor Tawes.

THE COURT: Well, I don't see that there is
any use in going into all of this. She did complain. That' 
the effort she made with respect to complaining.
BY HR. NABRIT:

Q You did complain to Governor Tawes?
A I tried to, to get to Governor Tawes.

THE COURT: It doesn't make any difference.
That's the only thing that would have any bearing on it.

MR. NABRIT: No further questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. MURPHY: ' ̂
Q Mrs. Wallace, just one or two questions. When

the officer told you that they had received anonymous 
telephone calls, what did that mean to you?

263



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A I asked what kind o£ anonymous telephone calls.

Q And what did they say?

A They didn't say anything. They didn't say tha

they were looking for the Veney brothers at all at that time.

Q What does the word "anonymous telephone call"

mean to you?
A Anonymous means someone that calls and they

didn't give their name or something. Some, someone called 

around; I don't know.
Q You say maybe they didn't give their name?

A I don't know. I'm sorry, Your Honor.

MR. NABRXT: Your Honor, this is irrelevant

264

and immaterial.

THE COURT: 

definition she gave us?

MR. NABRIT: 

as far as I can see.

THE COURT:

definition she gave?

MR. MURPHY:

Well, what's the matter with the

1 think she gave it pretty good

What's the matter with the

I think she gave it pretty

accurate except for something else. 1 don't think it's a

question of something else. 

BY MR. MURPHY:
Q Mrs. Wallace, did I understand you to say that

the police officers were rude to you?
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A I didn't say that they were rude to me; I said

that they didn't tell me what they were doing in the house

until it was all over, and I, I call that not giving a law- 

abiding citizen good citizenship.

Q Didn't they treat you as a law-abiding citizen?

A No, because 1 didn't know what was going on in

my home at the time when I arrived at home and 1 couldn't go 

in, and 1 had, X had girls in there and I didn't know what was 

happening in my house; and if X had known what they were in 

there for 1 would not have been upset as much as 1 was.

Q Well, they eventually told you that they were

looking for the Veney brothers?

A After X got in the house and set down.

Q In other words, once you were in the house they

told you why they were in the house?

A No, I went in the house because 1 came from up

the street and stood out with no coat on, and they wouldn't 

let me go in the house.

MR.. MURPHY: No further questions. Thank you.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Did you get sick after this episode?

A Yes, I did.

Q What was that?

No, no, there's no need of that.

265

<>03

THE COURT;



We're not trying to prove damages.
MR. NABRIT: Withdrawn.
THE COURT: We're not proving dai.mges here, anc

the fact that 1 have not let you testify to this will not be 
used against you in a damage suit that you may file, the fact 
that I have cut you off.

MR. NABRIT: Again I represent to the Court as
a member of the Bar that 1 have not been retained in any 
damage suit at ell.

THE COURT: I understand that, and I'm cutting
people off, and it might well be a defense in some of these 
cases, why didn't you say that to Judge Thomsen, and if there 
are damage suits filed and I cut people off, 1 want it clearly 
understood that that can be brought out if any such points 
are used on cross-examination.
V. THE CLERK: Step down.

(Witness excused.)

THE COURT: 
or a long witness?

MR. NABRIT: 
same subject, Your Honor, 

THE COURT:

Now, do you have a short witness

I have another witness on the 
but I'll try to keep it short.
All right.

MR. NABRIT: Miss Barrick.



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267

DOROTHY J. BARRICK
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
and, haviYig been first duly sworn, was examined and testified 
as follows:

THE CLERK: State your full name for the recor<
THE WITNESS: Dorothy J. Barrick.
THE COURT: 11118 is the guidance counselor?
THE WITNESS: That's right.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q And your residence?
A 3321 Owynn Falls Parkway.
Q And youwere at the Wallace home on Huron Street

on December 30th?
A That's right.
Q Describe to us--did you observe any police

officers or officer come into the house?
A 1 heard of them.
Q Explain to us briefly what happened when they

came there?
A We were looking at slides from a trip to

Hawaii that Miss Lucinda Wallace had made, and the police, 
the lights flashes in the window because the lights were out, 
and this light flashing through the window made everyone jump

Thereupon

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268
up to see what was going on, and we said, "What is that?"

And of course with the sudden lights flashing 
it frightened everyone, and by the time we reached from the 
dining room into the other section of the home the place was 
crowded.

Q Did you say anything to the police officers
about why they were there, what they were doing, you 
personally?

A Yes.
Q What did you say to them?
A When 1 walked from the living room to the

dining room I said, "Well, wait a minute, why are you in this 
lady's home?"

And nobody answered me. They went through and 
passed up, and 1 said, "You have no right to be in here like 
this because there's nothing going on in here." And I said, 
"The least you could do would be polite; you're rude and 
you're crude, and you could be polite about the matter."

And one officer said, "Well, that is why he was 
killed because he was polite."

And I said, "Well, that doesn't speak very well 
of you," and 1 think I said something to him about--

Q Did you ask him the reason they were there?
A Yes, I said, "Do you know why you're being in

this lady's home?" And nobody answered that.

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Finally one officer went to the cellar door to 
go down to the cellar, and I said, "Why are you running 
around in the home like this?"

And he said, "I'm going to search the cellar."
And I said, "There's a dog down there and don't

you kill it."
And he said, Veil, he'd better not bite me."
And I said, 'Veil, he could bite you. He beloi 

to this home."
And he said, ’Veil, do you belong in the home?"
And I said, ’Veil, that is too bad," and I said 

"Don't you kill these peoples' dog," and then one of the 
officers said, "I have to search the home."

And I said, "For what reason?" And I never 
heard an answer to that yet until we went in the home, into 
the living room where Mrs. Wallace was crying in the home, 
and that's when one officer was telling her that he received 
this anonymous phone call, and he said to her, Ve have 
anonymous phone calls that the Veney brothers are hiding out 
in here."

And I said, "In a home like this?"
And he said, ’Veil"— I said, ’Veil, who called

you?"
He said, "I can't reveal that," and I thought 

that's a strange sense of the word. "Anonymous" to me means

269

2 0 7



with no name.
270

And he said, "Well, who— ," why can't you reveal 

a name? And he wanted to know who was choosing this word, 

and I said, "Don't choose ray word. You choose one of your 

own."
Q Who were the officers?

A I have no idea who they were.

Q Can you describe the officers?

A No, there was a herd of them. At that moment

I could not recognize them, the ones in uniform, perhaps, but 

not the others.
Q How many officers were there in the house?

A I did not bother to count them, officers; there

were too many.
THE COURT: Well, were there two or three?

THE WITNESS: Many.
THE COURT: Were there ten or twelve or more?

THE WITNESS: They were constantly coming and

going and they were in there— there were two doors, one coming 

this way and one from this way and they were coming both 

ways, and they were up the steps and down the steps and 

standing around, and they were behind each other.
And there was no counting for me. I never 

bothered to look at them. I saw faces and uniforms and 

machine guns, and I was upset. I was perturbed because this

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was a new experience £or us.
1 didn't count them. 1 wouldn't pin myself to 

a number because there was too many of them.
MR, NAURU: No further questions.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SAUSE:

Q I didn't understand the word that you used.
Was the word "crude”? C-r-u-d-e, crude?

A Crude, c-r-u-d-e, yes.
Q Now, when you said that the officers were being

crude, what did you have reference to?
A I had reference to their sudden entry, their no

announcement, their up and down in a home that, that nobody 
knew why they were there, no reason given for the entry.
That is crudeness.

THE COURT: How do you know that they came in
without any announcement for the entry?

THE WITNESS: Because no word, nobody said
anything, there was no word about it.

THE COURT: You weren't there when they came
in, were you?

THE WITNESS: I was right in the dining room
when they entered and nobody said a word because we, I heard, 
the door is here, and it's Just a little curve here, and you 
can hear, and the child answered the door and didn't have a

271

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chance to ask who was It; so there was not a word mentioned, 
and we heard the bump, bump, bump of many feet.
BY MR. SAUSE:

272

Q Who was the child who answered the door?
A Either Henrietta or Sharon because I did not

see. I was looking at the slides this way, and one of the 
children behind me, everybody was lined up.

Q Was this the side door?
A I don't know which. They probably came in botl

doors because there are two door3, and by the time, and by 
time we come from this direction to this direction somebody 
in.

Q I'll ask you again was this the side door or
what?

A Probably both. They came in both doors, the
side and front.

Q Well, how did they get in the side door? Who
let them in?

A The side door was not locked, I don't think.
I don't know how they got in. Someone must have let them in 
or they came in themselves.

Q How did they get in the front door?
A One of the— I don't know. I didn't see them

come in the door at all because I was turned in this direct! 
turned around, and the children said one of them let theme el'

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Q Well, you don't know whether anybody admitted
them to this house or not, do you?

THE COURT: Well, she doesn't know who opened
the side door. She thinks it was one of the girls. What 
she said she didn't hear them say anything as to why they 
wanted to cone in, and she was in the dining room somewhere 
around the comer, and I think that's all it amounts to on 
the entry, and she may or may not have been in a position to 
hear.

MR. NABRIT: Yes.
BY MR. SAUSE:

Q Now, your characterization of "crude" has no
reference to any mistreatment by the police officers, does it 
of you personally?

A Well, no, not personally, but I'm well-read.
Q You're well what?
A Well-read.
Q What do you mean by that?
A I have read too, to us, to us a police officer

means different things than it does to you perhaps.
Q Well, I don't know about that. I don't under­

stand. I still don't understand what you mean.
A May I explain it to you?
Q Yes.

in.

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THE COURT: Yes.

BY MR. SAUSE:
Q I wish you would.
A Well, from Mississippi to Maryland, the sytrib—

a police officer to a Negro is a symbol of snarling dogs and 
firehoses and machine guns, and 1, when I see a police 
officer as a Negro,even though I may be non-violent, I have 
feelings. I may not be out, acting them out, but inwardly 
1 have a personal feeling whether 1 say it or not, I was 
angry enough at that moment to say the word ’’crude'1 and 
"rude”.

q You don’t like police officers; is that what
you say?

A No, I probably may not like them inwardly and I
don’t know whether I have analyzed them or not.

THE COURT: Do you feel— let me ask you this
question— that the attitude that you have just expressed is 
that the attitude of the Negro community?

THE WITNESS: No, I may not feel that. I
don’t think we, you know, it’s not, it’s a personal feeling 
perhaps, but I don’t say that is, it isn’t something you can 
say that a person should be, you know, you don’t come by it 
lightly that a person has to feel that he is all of a sudden 
have a wrong thought about a police officer perhaps. I 
don’t iiave any personal dealings with them, but I thought 
the way they came in made me aztgry about it.

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And so 1 thought this sudden desire to express,
\

expressed my feelings. < ''
MR. SAU5E: I have nothing further.
MR. NABRIT: Step down.
THE COURT:^ Let me speak to counsel.
(Thereupon, there was a conference at the bench,

after which the Court adjourned to Monday, January 18, 1965 
at tan o'clock a.in.)

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