Brown v. Ramsey Abstract of Record

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Brief Collection, LDF Court Filings. Brown v. Ramsey Abstract of Record, 1950. 00ac78ab-b69a-ee11-be36-6045bdeb8873. LDF Archives, Thurgood Marshall Institute. https://ldfrecollection.org/archives/archives-search/archives-item/589913ab-e9e8-4324-bcd8-30156c2fa586/brown-v-ramsey-abstract-of-record. Accessed December 07, 2025.

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A B S T R A C T OF R E C OR D

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
EIGHTH CIRCUIT.

No. 14,130.
CIVIL.

CHARLES L. BROWN. INFANT, AGE 12 YEARS, BY HIS STEP
FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, ARTHUR BOUSER; ALLEN
BLACK, JR., INFANT, AGE 15 YEARS, BY HIS FATHER AND
NEXT FRIEND, ALLEN BLACK, SR.; RUTH NEIOMA BYRD,
INFANT, AGE 16, BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, OTTO
BYRD; EARNIE RANDOLPH CHANEY, JR., INFANT, AGE 14,
BY HIS FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, EARNIE CHANEY, SR.;
HENRENE DAVIS, INFANT, AGE 9, BY HER FATHER AND
NEXT FRIEND, THOMAS DAVIS; SHIRLEY E. EDWARDS, IN
FANT, AGE 15, BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, PERCY
EDWARDS; CHARLIE MAE HARTGROVES, INFANT, AGE 9,
BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, CHARLIE C. HART-
GROVES; PAULANDAS KNAULS, INFANT, AGE 17 YEARS,
BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, GOVERNOR KNAULS;
ROBERT LEE HENRY, INFANT, AGE 8 YEARS, BY HIS FATHER
AND NEXT FRIEND, REV. ERNEST A. HENRY; ELMER PERRY,
JR., INFANT, AGE 16, BY HIS FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND,
ELMER PERRY; JOHN T. SMITH, INFANT, AGE 8, BY HIS
FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, CALVIN W. SMITH; SHIRLEY
MARIE WESLEY, INFANT, AGE 11, BY HER FATHER AND
NEXT FRIEND, ALFORD WESLEY; AND SAMUEL R. W IL
LIAMS, INFANT, AGE 14, BY HIS FATHER AND NEXT

FRIEND, EMANUEL WILLIAMS, APPELLANTS,

VS.

J. W. RAMSEY, SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS; RAYMOND
F. ORR, DELMAR EDWARDS, J. FRED PATTON, W. D. POWELL,
BRUCE SHAW, AS OFFICERS AND MEMBERS OF THE
BOARD OF EDUCATION, FORT SMITH, SEBASTIAN COUNTY,

ARKANSAS, SPECIAL SCHOOL DISTRICT, APPELLEES.

APPEAL FROM THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR
THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS, FORT SMITH DIVISION.

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
EIGHTH CIRCUIT.

No. 14,130.
CIVIL.

CHARLES L. BROWN, INFANT, AGE 12 YEARS, BY HIS STEP
FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, ARTHUR BOUSER; ALLEN
BLACK, JR, INFANT, AGE 15 YEARS, BY HIS FATHER AND
NEXT FRIEND, ALLEN BLACK, SR.; RUTH NEIOMA BYRD,
INFANT, AGE 16, BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, OTTO
BYRD; EARNIE RANDOLPH CHANEY, JR, INFANT, AGE 14,
BY HIS FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, EARNIE CHANEY, SR.;
HENRENE DAVIS, INFANT, AGE 9, BY HER FATHER AND
NEXT FRIEND, THOMAS DAVIS; SHIRLEY E. EDWARDS, IN
FANT, AGE 15, BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, PERCY
EDWARDS; CHARLIE MAE HARTGROVES, INFANT, AGE 9,
BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, CHARLIE C. HART-
GROVES; PAULANDAS KNAULS, INFANT, AGE 17 YEARS,
BY HER FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, GOVERNOR KNAULS;
ROBERT LEE HENRY, INFANT, AGE 8 YEARS, BY HIS FATHER
AND NEXT FRIEND, REV. ERNEST A. HENRY; ELMER PERRY,
JR, INFANT, AGE 16, BY HIS FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND,
ELMER PERRY; JOHN T. SMITH, INFANT, AGE 8, BY HIS
FATHER AND NEXT FRIEND, CALVIN W. SMITH; SHIRLEY
MARIE WESLEY, INFANT, AGE 11, BY HER FATHER AND
NEXT FRIEND, ALFORD WESLEY; AND SAMUEL R. W IL
LIAMS, INFANT, AGE 14, BY HIS FATHER AND NEXT

FRIEND, EMANUEL WILLIAMS, APPELLANTS,

VS.

J. W. RAMSEY, SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS; RAYMOND
F. ORR, DELMAR EDWARDS, J. FRED PATTON, W. D. POWELL,
BRUCE SHAW, AS OFFICERS AND MEMBERS OF THE
BOARD OF EDUCATION, FORT SMITH, SEBASTIAN COUNTY,

ARKANSAS, SPECIAL SCHOOL DISTRICT, APPELLEES.

APPEAL FROM THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR
THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS, FORT SMITH DIVISION.

INDEX
Original Print

Complaint ________________________________________ a 1
Bill of Particulars Filed by Plaintiffs, Filled March

10, 1949 1 13

Original print

Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary Judgment and A ffi
davit in Support Thereof-------------------------------- P

Response of Defendants to Plaintiffs Motion for
Summary Judgment, Filed March 28, 1949, and A f
fidavits of J. W. Ramsey and Raymond F. Orr------ u

Interrogatories of Parties to J. W. Ramsey, Superin
tendent of Schools, Filed May 16, 1949------------- aa

Answers to Plaintiffs’ Interrogatories Filed May
28, 1949______ 11

Order Overruling Motion for Summary Judgment--- rr
Answer of Defendants Filed June 27, 1949------------ ss
Amended Complaint------------------------------------------ FF
Answer of Defendants to Amended Complaint of

mPlaintiffs, Filed July 26, 1949---------------------------
Motion and Order to Suppress Subpoena Duces Tecum

Overruled and Stipulation, etc------------------------- nnn
Additional Amendment to Complaint by Plaintiffs,

Filed November 10, 1949-------------------------- ---—- 000
Answer to Amendment to Complaint, Filed Novem

ber 10, 1949-----------------------------------------------
Transcript of Testimony------------------------------------ 1

TESTIMONY FOR PLAINTIFFS

Calvin Smith-
Floyd Evans-

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. L

8
11
11

Plaintiffs’ Exhibits 1-68 Introduced, Consisting of
Large Photographs, with the Reporter’s Note
Indicating Same Not Material for Copying or
Being Attached to Transcript, and Filed with the
District Clerk under Separate Cover------------- 13

Donald Jones-----
Mose Williams----
Shirley Edwards.-
Allen Black, Jr.-.
C. M. Green_____
Herbert Hilliard-
A. H. Miller------
W. E. Hunzicker -
Eiisco Sanchez.—
Tom Trow______
Victor Geisel-----
Mrs. Lawson Cloninger..
Calvin Richardson------

14
33
47
60
66

144
154
167
182
191
194
199
207

35
42
43
47

63
64

68
70
71

72
72
86
96

105
109
164
171
180
190
197
199
202
207

Original Print

Dr. J. W. Ramsey________ __________________________ 210 210
Plaintiffs’ Exhibit, Annual Report, Board of Edu

cation, 1947-48 __________________________________ 216 214
Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. 69 (Analysis, Operating Ex

penses in Schools, Number of Pupils, Grade
7-12, Inclusive, and Scheme)__________________ 222A 219

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. 70 (Charts Showing Values
of Land, Buildings and Equipment, etc.).... ....___ 230A 225

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit, Superintendents, 1944-1945
(by Reference) Report________________________ 232 226

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. 71 (Tuition Derived from
and Operating Expenses Devoted to the Fort
Smith Jr. College for the Years 1932-33, and
1942-43 Through 1947-1948)_____ ____ ________ 235A 229

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit No. 72 (Class Schedule, 1st
Semester, 1948-49.')___________________________ 236A 23If

TESTIMONY ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANTS

Raymond F. Orr____________________________________ 237 233
Dr. Thomas Foltz_________________________________ 280 261
Ralph O. Mott______________________________________ 291 269

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 1 (Physical Survey of
the Fort Smith Public Schools)_______________ 296 273

Frank Beckman_____________________________________ 318 289
Lewis Bolin_______________________________________ 319 290
Walter Ruffin___...__________________________________ 333 299
J. W. Ramsey_______________________________________ 357 315

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 2 (Federal Census for
Years 1930, 1940 and 1949)_____ _______________ 359 316

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 3 (Average Daily Attend
ance, Fort Smith Public Schools)_______________ 360 317

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 4 (Per Capita Cost of In
struction, Fort Smith Public Schools)____ _____ 362 319

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 5 (Analysis of Enrollment,
Lincoln High School, 1949)--------------------------- 365 320

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 6 (Value of School Prop
erty, Fort Smith School District, 1948-49)______ 367 322

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 7 (Data on Fort Smith
Public School Buildings)______________________ 371 325

Defendants’ Exhibits, Nos. 11-95 (Note: Said Ex
hibits Being Large Photographs, Are Filed with
the District Clerk under Separate Cover)______ 373 327

Defendants’ Exhibits Nos. 8, 9 and 10 (Note: Said
Exhibits Being Large Maps, Are Filed with the
District Clerk under Separate Cover)__________ 383 333

Original Print

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 97 (Future Planning 1928-
29) ____________________________________________ 409 347

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 98 (Future Planning 1947) 411 348
Defendants’ Exhibit No. 99 (Building Program)__ 413 349
Defendants’ Exhibit No. 96 (Class Schedule for

Lincoln High School)____________________ __ _____ 420 355
Defendants’ Exhibit No. 100 (Superintendent’s Re

port September 2, 1949) __________________ 433 364
Interrogatories (Pre-trial) Propounded to J. W.

Ramsey __________ 445 372
J. W. Ramsey, Recalled_____________________________ 468 387
Dr. M. R. Owens____________________________________ 474 391
Ed McCuistion_____________________________________ 489 401
Oral Opinion of the Court (at Close of Testimony)__ 507 412
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law of Court

November 19, 1949______________________________ 528 424
Notice of Appeal of Plaintiffs from Findings of Fact

and Conclusions of Law and Judgment Based upon
Same Dismissing the Complaint, the Amended
Complaint, and the Amendment to the Amended
Complaint Filed December 15, 1949______________ 535 431

[fol. a] In the United States Federal District Court for the
Western Division of the Western District of Arkansas.
Charles L. Brown, Infant, age 12, by his step-father
and next friend, Arthur Bouser, 1121% North 10th
Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas; Henrene Davis, In
fant, age 9 years, by her father and next friend,
Thomas Davis, 3520 North 54th Street, Fort Smith,
Arkansas; Sherley E. Edwards, Infant, age 15, by her
father and next friend, Percy Edwards, 2117 North
14th Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas; Roy Lafay
Gotier, Minor, age 20 years, by his step-father and
next friend, George Fullbright, 1908 North 13th
Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas; Lois Marie Josen-
burger, Infant, age 15 years, by her father and next
friend, Chauncey Josenburger, 5024 High Street,
Fort Smith, Arkansas; Elmer Perry, Jr., Infant, age
16 years, by his father and next friend, Elmer
Perry, 3323 North 52nd Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas;
Ellen Mae Sewell, Infant, age 15 years, by her
father and next friend, James Sewell, 3301 North
54th Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas; Freddy Jean
Sewell, Infant, age 14 years, by her step-father and
next friend, Ossie Ross, 5401 Virginia Avenue, Fort
Smith, Arkansas; James Richardson, Infant, age 15
years by his father and next friend, Delbert Richard
son, 606 North 9th Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas;
Samuel R. Williams, Infant, age 14 years, by his
father and next friend, Emanuel Williams, 3010 North
Eye Street, Fort Smith, Arkansas; On behalf of-
themselves and others similarly situated, Plaintiffs,

[fol. b] vs. J. W. Ramsey, Superintendent of Schools, 400
North 15th Street, Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas; Raymond F. Orr, President, Board of
Education Directors, 1002 South 26th Street, Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; Delmer Ed
wards, Member of Board of Education Directors,
201 North 12th Street, Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas; J. Fred Patton, 2216 South S. Street, Fort
Smith, Arkansas; W. D. Powell, 3311 Free Ferry
Road, Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas;

Bruce Shaw, Esquire, Merchants National Bank
Building, Fort Smith, Arkansas; Sam Tressler, 616
North Greenwood Avenue, Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas; as members of the Board of
Education Directors for the city of Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas, and as officers and
agents of the Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkan
sas, Special School District, Defendants. Civil No.
798.

(Complaint.)

1. The jurisdiction of this honorable Court is invoked
under Judicial Code, Section 24 (1), (28 United States
Code, Section 41 (1), this being a suit in equity which
arises under the Constitution and laws of the United States,
viz., the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment of said Constitu
tion and Sections 41 and 43 of Title 8 of the United States
Code, wherein the matter in controversy exceeds exclusive
of interest and costs the sum of THREE THOUSAND
($3,000.00) DOLLARS.

The jurisdiction of this honorable Court is also invoked
under Judicial Code, Section 24 (14), (28 United States
Code, Section 41 (14), this being a suit in equity author
ized by law to be brought to redress the deprivation under
color of law, statute, regulation, custom and usage of a state
rights, privileges and immunities secured by the Con
stitution of the United States, viz., the Fourteenth (14th)
Amendment to said Constitution, and of rights secured by
laws of the United States providing for equal rights of.
citizens of the United States and of all persons within the
[fol. c] jurisdiction of the United States, viz., Sections.
41 and 43 of Title 8 of the United States Code.

2. Plaintiffs show further that this is a proceeding for
a declaratory judgment and injunction under Section 274D
of the Judicial Code for the purpose of determining a ques
tion of actual controversy between the parties, to wit:
The question of whether the practice of the defendants in
adopting, enforcing, and maintaining the policy, custom
and usage of the defendants, and each of them, in main
taining inadequate, unsanitary, unsafe and inferior schools,.

school facilities and curricula for Negro children in the city
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, between the
ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21), while maintaining
modern, sanitary, safe and superior schools, school facili
ties and curricula for white children in said Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas, constitutes a denial of the
right to the plaintiffs, their children and those in whose
behalf this suit is brought to equal protection of laws and
of privileges guaranteed to plaintiffs under the Fourteenth
(14th) Amendment to the Constitution of the United
States.

3. A ll parties to this action, both plaintiffs and defend
ants, are citizens of the United States, and of the State of
Arkansas, and are resident and domiciled in said State.
The plaintiffs say that the defendant J. W. Ramsey is the
Superintendent of Schools at Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas; that defendant Raymond F. Orr is president of
the Board of Education Directors of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, and that defendants Delmar Edwards,
J. Fred Patton, Sam Tressler, W. D. Powell and Bruce
Shaw, Esquire, are members of the said Board of Educa
tion Directors of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
and that said defendants are all, and each of them, mem
bers of the said Board of Education Directors of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; and that at all times
mentioned herein the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas, was and is now by law declared a body cor
porate; that the corporate limits of the said city of Fort
Smith define, delimit and bound the special School District
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; that the of
ficers of the defendant Board of Education Directors are
agents of said Special School District as provided by the
Laws of the State of Arkansas; and that the defendant
J. W. Ramsey is the duly selected and qualified and acting
Superintendent of free public schools for the city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and that Raymond F.
Orr is the duly elected, qualified and acting president of
[fol. d] the Board of Education Directors of the city of
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and that J. Fred
Patton, Delmar Edwards, Sam Tressler, W. D. Powell and

Bruce Shaw, Esquire, are the duly and legally elected,
qualified and acting members of the said Board of Educa
tion Directors for the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas and that the said defendants J. W. Ramsey, Ray
mond F. Orr, J. Fred Patton, Delmar Edwards, Sam Tres-
sler, W. D. Powell and Bruce Shaw, Esquire and each of
them reside in Sebastian County, Arkansas and within the
territory limits of the United States Federal District Court
for the Western Division of the Western District, of
Arkansas, and that the defendant Board of Education
Directors of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and
J. W. Ramsey, Superintendent of Free Public Education
for Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas all and each of
them reside in Sebastian County, and the city of Fort
Smith, Arkansas.

4. The plaintiffs say that the plaintiff, Chauncey Josen-
burger, resides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas and is a tax payer, and that he has an infant
daughter who is between the ages of six (6) and twenty-
one (21) years, to wit, Lois Marie Josenburger, age 15
years who resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkan
sas and is entitled to attend the Secondary Free Public
Schools in the said city of Fort Smith and she does attend
the 12th grade at Lincoln High School under the rules and
regulations promulgated by the defendants and each of
them; that the plaintiff, Elmer Perry, Sr. resides in the
city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and is a
tax payer and has an infant son between the ages of six
(6) and twenty-one (21) years, to wit, Elmer Perry, Jr.,,
age sixteen (46) years, who resides in Fort Smith, Se
bastian County, Arkansas, and who is entitled to attend
the secondary free public schools in said city of Fort Smith,,
Sebastian County, Arkansas, and he does attend the 10th
grade at Lincoln High School, under the rules and regula
tions promulgated by the defendants, and each of them;
that Ossie Ross, plaintiff herein, resides at Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas and is a tax-payer, that he
has an infant step-daughter who is between the ages of
six (6) and twenty-one (21) years who resides at Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, to wit, Freddy Jean
Sewell, age 14, and is entitled to attend the secondary pub-

lie free schools of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
and she does attend the ninth (9th) grade at Lincoln High
School under the rules and regulations promulgated by de
fendants and each of them; that the plaintiff, James Sewell,
resides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, A r
kansas, and is a tax-payer, and that he has an infant daugh
ter who is between the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21)
[fol. e] years, to wit, Ellen Mae Sewell, age 15 years, who
resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and is en
titled to attend the secondary free public schools in said
city of Fort Smith and she does attend the tenth (10th)
grade at Lincoln High School under the rules and regula
tions promulgated by the defendants and each of them;
that the plaintiff Thomas Davis, resides in the city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and is a tax-payer
and that he has an infant daughter who is between the
ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years, to wit, Henrene
Davis, age 9 years, who resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas and is entitled to attend the elementary
free public schools in the said city of Fort Smith and she
does attend the third (3rd) grade at the Washington Ele
mentary School under the rules and regulations promul
gated by the defendants and each of them; that the plain
tiff George Fullbright, resides in the city of Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas and is a tax-payer, and that
he has a minor step-son, who is between the ages of six
(6) and twenty-one (21) years, to wit, Roy Lafay Gotier,
a veteran of World War II, age 20 years, who resides at
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and is entitled to
attend the secondary free public schools in the said city of
Fort Smith, and he does attend the 11th grade at the Lin
coln High School under the rules and regulations promul
gated by the defendants and each of them; that the plaintiff1
Percy Edwards, resides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, and is a tax-payer, and that he has an
infant daughter who is between the ages of six (6) and
twenty-one (21) years, to wit, Shirley E. Edwards, age 15
years, who resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian County, A r
kansas and is entitled to attend the secondary free public
schools in said city of Fort Smith and she does attend the
tenth (10th) grade at Lincoln High School under the rules
and regulations promulgated by the defendants and each

of them; that the plaintiff, Emanuel Williams, resides in
the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and is
a tax-payer, and that he has an infant son who is between
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years to wit, Sam
uel R. Williams, age 14, who resides at Fort Smith, Sa-
bastian County, Arkansas and is entitled to attend the sec
ondary free public schools in the city of Fort Smith and he
does attend the ninth (9th) grade at Lincoln High School
under the rules and regulations promulgated by the de
fendants and each of them; that the plaintiff Delbert Rich
ardson resides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas and is a tax-payer and that he has a son between
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years, to wit,
James Richardson, age fifteen (15), who resides at Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and is entitled to at
tend the secondary free public schools in the said city of
Fort Smith and he does attend the tenth (10th) grade at
the Lincoln high school under the rules and regulations
[fob f] promulgated by the defendants and each of them;
that the plaintiff Arthur Bouser, resides in the city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and is a tax-payer, and
that he has a step-son who is between the ages of six (6)
and twenty-one (21) years, to wit, Charles L. Brown, age
twelve (12) who resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian County,,
Arkansas and is entitled to attend the elementary free pub
lic schools in the said city of Fort Smith and he does attend
in the fifth (5th) grade at Howard Elementary School
under the rules and regulations promulgated by the de
fendants and each of them. The plaintiffs say further that
this law suit is brought for the benefit of these plaintiffs
and their said children, as well as for the benefit of all
other persons similarly situated in the said city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; that these plaintiffs
and those whom they represent are all persons of African
decent and Negro blood; that the defendants J. W. Ramsey
is Superintendent of free public schools at Fort Smith, Se
bastian County, Arkansas, and that Raymond F. Orr is
president of the Board of Education Directors of the city
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and that the
defendants J. W. Ramsey and Raymond F. Orr are sued in
their official capacities herein alleged; that the Fort Smith,,
Sebastian County, Arkansas Special School District is an

Administrative Agency of the said city of Fort Smith, Se
bastian County, Arkansas by virtue of and under the gen
eral laws of the State of Arkansas; that the officers and
members of the Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas
Board of Education Directors are all and each of them
agents and officials of the said Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas Special School District; and said defend
ant is sued in its official capacity.

5. That the State of Arkansas has provided by constitu
tion and statute for an efficient system of public schools,
(Article 14, Sections 1-4 of the Constitution of the State of
Arkansas).

6. That the State of Arkansas, under its general laws,
has declared and provided for a free public school system
for the education of all children between the ages of six
(6) and twenty-one (21) years. (Article 14, Sections 1-4).

7. That the State of Arkansas, under its general laws,
has provided for free text books for all children between
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years, (Title 13,
Section 521, Revised Civil Statutes of the state of A r
kansas).

collected taxes from these plaintiffs, and those similarly-
situated and for whose benefit this law suit is brought, for
the purpose of supporting the free public school system in
the said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas;
that such school system is maintained on a separate, segre
gated and discriminatory basis with Negroes being forced
and compelled to attend one (1) high school, to wit, the
Lincoln High School exclusively which school is more than
fifty (50) years old and in an unsafe and unsanitary phys
ical condition; that its facilities for educational purposes
are grossly inadequate and unequal in every respect to
those provided for white children; that its curriculum is
inadequate and unequal to that provided for white chil
dren; that it has inadequate and outmoded equipment for
teaching shop work; that this machinery is unlike, dis
similar and unequal for educational purposes to the ma
chinery used in schools for white children; that there are
no facilities for teaching metal trades, auto mechanics,
linotyping, printing, and other crafts and skills which are
taught in high school for white children; that there are no
facilities for gymnasium; that the courses in home eco
nomics are inadequate, unlike and unequal to those pro
vided for white children; that such courses as physics,
geometry, business courses and romance languages which
are taught in schools for white children are not taught at
the school for Negro children; that under the Fourteenth
(14th) Amendment to the Constitution of the United States
and the laws of the United States, the defendants, and
each of them, are required to provide educational facilities
for said Negro Children without discrimination because of
race or color of said Negro Children.

9. That the schools which Negro children are required,
by the said defendants, to attend are known as Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas schools for Negroes, the same
being one high school and one or more elementary schools;
and that all pupils of African decent and Negro blood
eligible to attend the said high school are often required
to travel long distances to reach the high school maintained
[fol. h] by the defendants for Negro children; that many
of said Negro children pass superior schools which are
maintained for white children while enroute to the high

school maintained for Negro children; that they are denied
admission to the superior schools which are maintained
for white children solely because of their race and color
in violation of the Constitution and laws of the United
States.

10. That the facilities, curriculum, libraries, gym
nasium, physical condition of the school buildings, the
sanitary conditions, toilets and drinking fountains are in
ferior and unequal to those provided for white children;
that the protection from fire hazards and dangers in
schools maintained for Negroes in Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, and to which Negro children are forced
and compelled to attend under rules and regulations pro
mulgated and enforced by said defendants are inadequate
and unhealthy and unsafe in many respects and that they
are grossly and palpably unequal to those provided for
white children in the said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas; that said buildings maintained for free
public school purposes for Negroes are wholly inadequate
for housing and proper instruction for said Negro children
in that the halls are narrow and unsafe, the stairs are too
narrow to allow hasty, safe, sane and expeditious exits in
case of fire; that the class rooms in said schools for Ne
groes in said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkan
sas are not equipped or furnished with modern teaching
equipment or furniture, notwithstanding the fact that
school buildings provided for the attendance and instruc
tion of white children are modern in architectural design,
free of hazards and dangers, and fully equipped with
modern teaching equipment and furnishings; that said
buildings for white children are adequately lighted and
ventilated; that in these respects Negro children in Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas are grossly, flagrantly
and deliberately discriminated against to their great harm;
that as a result of this unlawful discrimination the said
Negro students in the free public schools of said Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas have suffered and are
now suffering great injury, harm and damages to their
physical health, their mental health, their educational de
velopment, their morale and to their educational training
all of which they suffer solely because of their race and

color and contrary to and in violation of the Constitution
and laws of the United States.

11. The plaintiffs further say that the defendants, and
each of them, are now and have been for a long time prior
to the date of filing this petition furnishing to the white
pupils under their supervision and authority in said city
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas adequate facil
ities for education in standardized schools as provided for
under the general laws of the state of Arkansas; that these
[fol. i] defendants have for a long time prior to the date of
filing this petition refused and are now refusing contrary
to the laws and Constitution of the United States to furnish
such equal and adequate facilities to Negro pupils between
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years who reside
in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
solely on account of their race and color.

12. That the policy, custom and usage of said defend
ants, and each of them, have been and are now to maintain
inadequate, unequal, unsafe, unsanitary and inferior school
buildings, secondary school curriculum, and school facilities,
as hereinbefore alleged for Negro children of the said city
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, solely because
of their race and color, while maintaining adequate, mod
ern, safe, sanitary and superior school buildings, school
curricula and school facilities for white children of free
public school age in the said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, as hereinbefore alleged.

13. The plaintiffs say further that before the filing of
this law suit the plaintiffs, individually and on behalf of
their aforesaid minor children, and on behalf of all parents;
and persons similarly situated, petitioned the defendants
and the Board of Education Directors of the said city of
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas to cease their
unlawful custom, policy and usage of requiring Negro chil
dren of school age under their supervision and authority
to attend and use inadequate, unequal, unsafe, unsanitary
and inferior schools and school facilities as hereinbefore
alleged solely because of their race and color, while said
defendants supplied to white children of school age in the
same area, viz., Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas

modern, safe, sanitary and superior school buildings and
school facilities, as hereinbefore alleged in this complaint;
that said petition was filed on or about November 16, 1948;
that many and numerous oral appeals have been made to
said defendants for a long period of time prior to the fil
ing of this law suit, and that said petition and the numerous
oral appeals have been ignored by these said defendants,
and each of them, and the defendants, and each of them,
have continued and are now promulgating and enforcing
their said unlawful practices, customs and usages upon
these plaintiffs and the minor children of these plaintiffs
solely because of their race and color.

14. These plaintiffs allege that by virtue of such wrong
ful and unlawful policy, custom and usage of the said de
fendants and each of them, that the plaintiffs and their
children of school age, and all Negro parents of children
similarly situated in the said Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas area are greatly injured and damaged; that they
[fol. j] have no adequate remedy at Law.

WHEREFORE, plaintiffs respectfully pray the honor
able Court:

(1) That this Court adjudge, decree and declare the
rights and legal relations of the parties to the subject mat
ter herein in controversy in order that such declaration
and decree shall have the force and effect of a final judg
ment and decree;

(2) That this honorable Court enter a judgment, or
der and decree declaring that the policy, custom and
usage of the defendants and each of them, in maintaining
and funishing school buildings and school facilities for
Negro children between the ages of six (6) and twenty-
one (21) years in Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
which are unsafe, unsanitary, unequal and inferior to those
furnished to white children of school age in said city of
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, is a denial of the
equal protection of laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth
(14th) Amendment to the Constitution, and is therefore,
unconstitutional and void; and

(3) That this Court issue a permanent injunction for
ever restraining the defendants, and each of them, and
their successors in office from maintaining a policy, cus
tom and usage of furnishing school buildings, curricula
and school facilities for Negro children between the ages
of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years in the said city of
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, which are un
safe, unsanitary, unequal and inferior to those furnished
to all other children of said age group in said city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County Arkansas; and

(4) That this honorable Court issue a permanent in
junction forever restraining the defendants, and each of
them, and their successors in office from further discrim
inating against Negro children between the ages of six (6)
and twenty-one (21) years in Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas in curricula and courses of study, school
buildings and educational facilities solely because of their
race and color;

(5) The plaintiffs herein pray for such other and
further orders as the facts and equity demand,

J. Robert Booker
Century Building
9th and Arch Streets
Little Rock, Arkansas

Attorney for Plaintiffs

U. Simpson Tate
1000 You Street, N. W.
Washington, D. C,

[fol. k] Filed in District Court Western Division of Western
District of Arkansas, Fort Smith Ark. Division December
10-1948.

[fol. 1] In the District Court of the United States for the
Western District of Arkansas Fort Smith Division
Charles L. Brown, Infant, by his Step-father and
next friend, Arthur Bouser, et al Plaintiffs v. J. W.
Ramsey, Superintendent of Schools, et al Defend
ants Civil Action No. 798.

(Bill of Particulars.)

Now come the Plaintiffs by their attorneys J. Robert
Booker and U. Simpson Tate, who, pursuant to Rule 12 of
the Rules of Civil Procedure, Amended in 1948, respect
fully represent to this Honorable Court:

1. That the Defendants, J. W. Ramsey, Superintendent
of Schools, et al, as the Board of Directors of the Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas Public Schools are a
body corporate, (Sec. 11490, Ark. State Statutes), and an
administrative agency of the State of Arkansas. The duties
of the said Board of School Directors are defined in Section
11535 of the Arkansas State Statutes and of the School
Laws of Arkansas, 1943 Edition, at page 89. They are
charged with the following powers and duties:

(a) . . . care and custody of the school house, grounds,
and other property belonging to the district, and
shall keep same in good repair, in sanitary and sightly
condition.

(e) See that all subjects for study prescribed by the
State Board of Education or by law, for the grades
of schools in their districts are taught.

(g ) Visit the schools frequently, see to the welfare of
the pupils, encourage them in their studies, and as
sist the teachers in their work so far as they can.

[fol. m] The State of Arkansas must ever maintain a
general, suitable and efficient system of free schools,
whereby all persons in the State between the ages of six
and twenty-one years may receive gratuitous instruction,

Article XIV, Section 1, of the Constitution of Arkansas;.
The supervision of public schools and the execution of the
laws regulating same shall be vested in and confined to
such officers as may be provided for by the General As
sembly, Article XIV, Section 4, of the Constitution of the
State of Arkansas. Accordingly the Board of Education of
the Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas District adopted
a body of Rules on January 19, 1917, which Rules have been
amended by the said Board in its regular meetings in
subsequent years. The Plaintiffs say they do not have suf
ficient information to determine whether the Defendants
have a body of separate rules for the operation and con
trol of schools for white and non-white children under
their control, but from the mandate of the State laws,
they must establish separate schools for colored and white
people. It is reasonable to presume that there are sep
arate rules for the control and operation of the separate
schools.

2. (a) The Plaintiffs say that the maintenance of sep
arate schools for Negroes and whites is discriminatory for
the reason that segregation is in and of itself discrim
inatory and that the separate maintenance of free, pub
lic schools for Negroes is one, but not all, of the acts of
discrimination complained of by these Plaintiffs; (b) the
Plaintiffs say that they do not intend to allege that one
high school for Negroes is not sufficient; (c) the Plain
tiffs say that the First Section of the Fourteenth (14th)
Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is the
section to which reference is made in paragraph 8 of their
complaint filed herein.

3. (a) The Plaintiffs say that the maintenance of a
separate high school for Negro children does constitute
an illegal discrimination, when, in violation of prevailing
laws, such separate maintenance deprives Negro children
of equal educational opportunities and facilities; (b) the
Plaintiffs say that the denial to Negro children of the
right to enroll in white schools does constitute an illegal
discrimination, when, in violation of prevailing laws, equal
educational opportunities and facilities are not provided
for Negro children; (c ) the Plaintiffs say that they do not

have sufficient information to charge that Negro children
[fol. n] in the Fort Smith School District are compelled
as a general rule to travel a greater distance than are
the white children of the District in order to reach their
respective schools.

4. The Plaintiffs say that Section 1 of the Fourteenth
(14) Amendment to the Constitution of the United States
is the section referred to in paragraph 9 of their complaint
filed herein.

5. The Plaintiffs say that Section 1 of the Fourteenth
(14th) Amendment to the Constitution of the United
States is the section referred to in paragraph 10 of their
complaint filed herein.

6. The Plaintiffs say that by the use of the word, “pro
mulgating” , in paragraph 13 of their complaint filed
herein, they intended to charge that the Defendants have
published, and announced a rule and policy, custom, usage
and practice calling for, and evidencing, discrimination
against Negro school children in favor of white school
children, by virtue and as a result of their having derived
their existence, powers, duties and authority under the
Laws of the State of Arkansas; that they must, under the
mandate of the state, “Establish separate schools for white
and colored persons” , Section 11535. The School Laws of
Arkansas, 1943 Ed., page 89; that they have provided for
white high school children the following courses, inclusive
but not exclusive, which they have not provided for Negro
children of high school age in their School District: Ac
counting I, II, III & IV; American Government; Band;
Business Arithmetic; Chemistry; Commercial Law; Com
mercial Geography; French; [Joumalish] I & II; Latin I,
II, III, & IV; Physical Education, including football, track,
swimming; Office Machines, including the operation of
bookkeeping machines, comptometers, calculators, adding
machines, dictaphones, mimeograph machines, etc; Short
hand I, II, & HI; Salesmanship; Spanish and Typing I &
II; that there are maintained for white school children
shops in which the printing trades are taught, including
linotyping, composition and make-up, press operation and

job printing; metal trades; plumbing; automobile me
chanics; cabinet making, etc; that in the Junior High
School for white children there is a swimming pool, one
large auditorium and two small meeting rooms and an
ample gymnasium; that there is a spacious and modern
gymnasium in the high school for white children; that
there are in the white high school two well furnished and
commodious rooms for female members of the faculty;
[fol. o] that there are maintained by the Defendants for
white children of school age a complete Junior College,
all of the above mentioned, and many other features to
the complete exclusion of Negro children, because of their
race.

Having thus fully complied with the request of the De
fendants for a bill of particulars, the Plaintiffs move this
Honorable Court to dismiss the Defendants’ motion to re
quire the Plaintiffs to give a more definite statement on
the grounds that the Defendants’ motion is [facitious], ca
pricious and vexatious, and designed solely to delay the
orderly processes of this Honorable Court.

J. Robert Booker
Century Building
Little Rock, Arkansas

' Attorney for Plaintiffs

U. Simpson Tate
Washington, D. C.

Of Counsel

Filed March 10, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, District
Court, Western District of Arkansas.

[fol. p] Civil Action No. 798

(Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary Judgment.)

The Plaintiffs move the Honorable Court as follows:

1. That it enter, pursuant to Rule 56 of the Federal
Rules of Civil Procedure, a Summary Judgment in Plain

tiffs’ favor for the relief demanded in the complaint, on
the ground that there is no genuine issue as to any mate
rial fact and that Plaintiffs are entitled to a judgment as
a matter of law; or, in the alternative,

2. If summary judgment is not rendered in Plain
tiffs’ favor upon the whole case or for all the relief asked
and a trial is necessary, that the Court, at the hearing on
this Motion, by examining the pleadings and the evidence
before it and by interrogating counsel, ascertain what ma
terial facts exist without substantial controversy and what
material facts are actually and in good faith controverted,
and thereupon make an order specifying what facts do ap
pear without material or substantial controversy and di-
[fol. q] recting such further proceedings in the action as
are just.

U. Simpson Tate
Of Counsel

Filed March 17, 1949, in Fort Smith, Arkansas Division
of District Court of United States.

[fol. r] AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF THE PLAINTIFFS’
MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

CITY AND COUNTY OF DALLAS

STATE OF TEXAS, SS:

Personally appeared before me, a Notary Public in and
for the County of Dallas, State of Texas, DONALD
JONES, who being first duly sworn, upon his oath deposes
and says:

That I am Regional Secretary for the Southwest Region
of the National Association for the Advancement of
Colored People, of which Region the State of Arkansas
is a part; that I am experienced as a Newspaper executive
and writer, and that I am experienced in making and re
porting investigations.

That I personally went on a tour of inspection, on Feb
ruary 26, 1949, of the buildings and grounds of the Junior
College, the Senior High School and the Junior High

School for white children in the City of Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas; that I personally visited the
Lincoln High School and the Howard Elementary School
for Negroes in the said City of Fort Smith, Arkansas; that
present on the said tour of buildings and grounds of the
public schools of the said city of Fort Smith, Arkansas,
was the Superintendent of Schools, Dr. J. W. Ramsey.

Among the facilities offered to and for white children
of public school age were the following inclusive but not
exclusive of others:

A Junior College, A Senior High School and a Junior
High School.

The Junior College I found to be physically located in the
usually unused space beneath the stands of the high school
stadium. It consists of a number of large classrooms, fully
equipped; lavatories for men and women and an adminis
tration office. It appears fully adequate for the purpose
used.

The Senior High School consists of a large two-story
brick building and included in it are numerous well lighted,
fully-equipped classrooms including classrooms for the
teaching of science and commercial courses; a fully
equipped machine shop; a complete printing shop with
facilities for linotyping, bookbinding, composition, job
printing and tabloid size newspaper printing, etc. The
High School contains built-in steel lockers in the halls suf
ficient to accommodate all students; lounges for female
faculty members; a public address system to all class
rooms operated from an administrative office; a fully
adequate library with two large reading rooms; a gym
nasium with hardwood floors and seating capacity of ap
proximately 750, and dressing rooms in connection there
with; grounds well grassed and beautifully landscaped
[fob s] with shrubbery and trees. Also in the high school
is a large cafeteria. Equipment for teaching commercial
courses includes 60 or 70 typewriters and the numerous
types of machines used in accounting and related courses.
The senior high school building appeared fully large

enough to accommodate with ease the students enrolled,
and the grounds, including the stadium, sufficiently large
to provide for all recreational and athletic activities.

The Junior High School, located in a building covering
the better part of a city block consists of more than 40
classrooms, all adequately furnished for teaching science,
commercial courses, art and other technical courses as well
as regular junior high school courses. The Junior High
School has a large swimming pool inside the building and
in connection therewith dressing rooms containing dress
ing booths and hair dryers; some 1500 metal lockers lining
wide halls; a large attractive auditorium, seating some
1500 persons; a public address system to all classrooms
and to the swimming pool area and the swimming pool
dressing rooms; adequate lavatories for faculty members
and students; an adequate library; an extremely large
study room; a second small auditorium used for the pur
pose of debating, conducting forum discussions, etc. The
recreation area in connection with the Junior High School
consists of a small park directly across the street from the
front of the building.

I asked for and received from Dr. J. H. Ramsey, Fort
Smith Superintendent of Schools, the programs of the var
ious schools under his jurisdiction. These programs reveal
that among the courses offered to white children of public
school age but not offered to Negro children of public
school age are the following, inclusive but not exclusive:
Accounting; American Government; Band; Business Arith
metic; Chemistry; Commercial Law; Latin; Commercial
Geography; French; Journalism; Physical Education, in
cluding football, track, swimming; Office machines; Sales
manship; Spanish and Typing. Also taught in the white
high schools are printing, including linotyping, composi
tion and make-up, press operation and job printing; metal
trades; plumbing; cabinet making, etc.

The high school provided for the teaching of Fort Smith
Negro children contrasts sharply with the Senior High

School and the Junior High School provided for the teach
ing of white children. The Negro High School, designated
Lincoln High School, is located physically, except for the
woodwork shop, in a building characterized chiefly by its
age, [unacttractiveness] and run-down condition. Class-
[fol. t] rooms are dingy and ill-equipped; there is no cafe
teria, no study halls or debating rooms; instead of metal
lockers as in the white schools, metal hooks are strung
along the halls and the walls of a narrow closet for the chil
dren to hang their clothes upon; the administrative office,
from which the office of the principal is separated only by
a low partition dividing off one comer for this purpose, is
shared as a classroom; there is a combination auditorium,
gymnasium, and classroom, which is obviously inadequate
for either of these uses and which, when used as a gym
nasium for basketball games, can seat possibly 150 spec
tators by make-shift arrangement. Furniture in the Lin
coln school almost without exception is old and dilapidated.
The grounds of the school are rough and unimproved and
reflect no attempt at beauty or even decent care. There
is no athletic field of any kind except two tennis courts,
and I was informed by Mr. Ramsey that football, baseball,
track and all other athletic activities save basketball and
tennis are not engaged in or taught at the Lincoln school.

The woodwork shop, consisting of a two-room building
separate from the main high school building, is furnished
in the main workroom with two or three small machines,
none of which was hooked up or appeared in use, and a
number of tables and work benches. The second room, ap
parently a classroom in connection with the woodwork
course, had desks, chairs and tables, including a desk for
an instructor. The whole atmosphere of the woodwork
shop was one of chaotic disorder and lack of real working
equipment.

Signed Donald Jones

Sworn to and subscribed before me this 3rd day of
March, 1949 in the City and County of Dallas, Texas.

/s/ Hazel W. Partee
(Seal) Notary Public

My Commission expires on the 1st day of Aug 1949

Filed March 17-1949, Western District of Arkansas, Ft.
Smith Division, United States District Court.

[fol. u] (Defendants’ Response to Plaintiffs’
Motion for Summary Judgment.)

Now come the Defendants and for their reply to the
Motion for Summary Judgment state:

1. It is not true that no genuine issue exists as to any
material fact, and it is not true that Plaintiffs are entitled
to judgment as a matter of law.

2. The Defendants state further that when they file a
responsive pleading herein they will controvert in good
faith every material fact alleged by Plaintiffs. They
further state that there will be no material facts which
are without substantial controversy.

[fol. v] 3. It is obvious from the affidavit filed in sup
port of Plaintiffs’ motion, as well as the affidavits filed
by the Defendants in opposition to the motion that the
Defendants cannot present by affidavit facts essential to
justify their opposition, and for that reason, as provided
in 56 (f ) of the Rules of Procedure, Plaintiffs’ motion
should be denied to the end that the issues may be made
up in orderly course and the cause tried on its merits.

4. Attached hereto as a part of this response are the
affidavits of Raymond F. Orr and J. W. Ramsey.

Filed in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of District Court
March 28, 1949.

[fol. w] STATE OF ARKANSAS

COUNTY OF SEBASTIAN

I, J. W. Ramsey, being first duly sworn, state upon
oath that I am Superintendent of the Special School Dis
trict of Fort Smith, Arkansas, which position I have held
continuously since the year 1923. As superintendent I am

the principal executive head of the school system, and
have general supervision and direction of all of the affairs
of the district, including the maintenance of buildings
and other physical properties, the planning of courses of
study for all schools, the employment of teachers and
other school personnel, and the general administration
of school affairs subject to the general direction of the
Board of Directors.

For many years I have been a member of both the State
and National Education Associations, have taken an active
part in both organizations, have served as an officer in
the state association, and also as an officer in the American
Association of School Administrators which is a depart
ment of the N.E.A. As a member of these associations,
and particularly of the national organization, I have had
an opportunity to and have kept myself informed of all
generally approved and accepted methods of instruction
and of curricular needs of both white and Negro children.
In laying out the courses of study for the various Fort
Smith schools, and particularly in the white and Negro
high schools, those generally accepted and approved
methods have been followed. In laying out the courses
of study for the white and Negro high schools I, with the
approval of the Board of Directors, have endeavored to
provide the students of those respective schools with the
type of training which is best calculated to prepare them
for the duties of citizenship and for success in life.
Further, in laying out the courses of study for both white
and Negro high schools, we have constantly called into
consultation both white and Negro educators, as well as
patrons, in order to determine what courses seemed best
adapted to the needs of the students to be served.

It is not true that any discrimination exists in favor of.
white as against Negro pupils either in the elementary
or the high schools operated by the Special School Dis-
[fol. x] trict of Fort Smith.

I further state that I am familiar with the buildings,
and equipment maintained by said school district. I visit
all of the 21 schools operated by the district at frequent
intervals, and keep in constant touch with the activities

and programs of said schools. It is true that Lincoln High
School building is old, but some of the buildings for white
children are still older, and many of them have facilities
and conveniences substantially inferior to those of Lincoln
High School, and substantially inferior to those of the
Negro elementary schools, with the possible exception of
Howard elementary school for Negroes which is being
replaced by a new modern building now under construc
tion. This building when completed and equipped will
excel in practically every respect any existing white school
in the district.

The Negro schools of the district have been furnished
and are now being furnished all reasonable facilities for
athletics and entertainment for which there has been any
appreciable demand on the part of students, faculty, or
patrons.

The total enrollment in the white schools of the district
for the school year 1948-49 is 7,190, of which number
4,526 are enrolled in the elementary schools, 1,593 in the
Junior High School, and 1,071 in the Senior High School.
The total enrollment for said year in the Negro schools
is 691, of which number 371 are enrolled in the elemen
tary schools and 320 in the Lincoln High School. How
ever, 80 of the students in Lincoln High School are non
residents of the district leaving 240 resident students.
Instruction in both white and Negro schools is offered in
twelve grades numbered 1 to 12, which are uniformly of
fered in both white and Negro schools. Six of these
grades are designated as high school, numbered 6 to 12 in
clusive. In the white high school the administration is
divided into two units, the Junior High School consisting
of grades 7 to 9 inclusive, and the Senior High School,
grades 10 to 12 inclusive. In the case of the Negro high
school all six grades are taught at Lincoln High School.
This difference is necessitated by the large number of
white students in the high school group. It appeared
more economical and practical to the Board to divide the
high school students in this way rather than maintain
two separate high school units consisting of six grades,
[fol. y] There have been no new buildings constructed in
the Fort Smith School District during the past 20 years

during which time the building needs for the white children
have increased to a greater extent than the needs of the
Negro children. For several years last past the Board of
Directors have been planning a program of new buildings.
Foremost in every discussion of these plans has been a
modern building for the Negro children, either a high
school building or an elementary school building, the dis
trict being financially unable to construct both. The final
decision of the Board was made after securing advice and
counsel from the faculty and patrons of the Negro schools.
To carry out the building plans finally adopted, a building
fund of $900,000 has been provided by a bond issue, and
approximately $225,000 of this amount has been allotted
to the construction and equipment of the new Howard
School. This is fully one-fourth of the total building fund
in spite of the fact that the white school population out
numbers the Negro school population more than 10 to 1.

During a period of 20 years last past the enrollment in
the white schools of the district has increased substantially,
whereas the enrollment in the Negro schools during the.
same period has actually decreased, thereby increasing the
building needs of the white students with no correspond
ing increase on the part of the Negro students.

The extracurricular facilities of the Negro schools are
substantially equal to those of the white schools when the
difference in the number of students to be served is con
sidered. This is true of auditoriums, gymnasiums, play
grounds, and all other extracurricular facilities mentioned
in the affidavit of Donald Jones. Likewise, the curricular
facilities of the Negro schools are substantially equal to
those of the white schools when considered together with
the difference in the number to be served, including shops
and their equipment, classrooms and their equipment, and
all other facilities mentioned in said affidavit.

(signed) J. W. Ramsey

[fol. z] STATE OF ARIZONA

COUNTY O F _________________

I, Raymond F. Orr, being first duly sworn, state upon
oath that I am a member of the Board of Directors of the

Special School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas, I have
been a member of said Board continuously since the year
1944. I have served as President of the Board since 1947.
During the five years of my membership on said Board
no discrimination has been practiced or permitted against
the Negro children in favor of the white children in the
administration of school affairs, and during my term of
service it has been the constant effort of the Board to
maintain the white and Negro schools of the district on
a plane of substantial equality.

I state further that I have read the affidavit of Superin
tendent J. W. Ramsey, dated the 19th day of March, 1949,
and that the facts therein stated are true to the best of
my knowledge, information, and belief.

(signed) Raymond F. Orr

Filed March 28, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of
United States District Court.

[fol. aa] (Interrogatories of Parties.)

COME NOW the plaintiffs and serve upon you, the
defendant J. W. Ramsey, superintendent of schools, Fort
Smith, Arkansas and of the Fort Smith Special School
District, the following interrogatory which the plaintiffs
request that you answer under oath within fifteen (15)
days after service of this request upon you, as provided by
Rule 33 of the Rules of Civil Procedures of the District
Court of the United States,

DATED THIS 14th DAY OF MAY, 1949.

1 .

Is there provided, operated and maintained by the Board
of Education of Fort Smith, Arkansas and the Fort Smith
Special School District, a Junior College for the benefit,
use and enjoyment of white persons between the ages of
six and twenty-one years?

Is the said Junior College for white persons of public
school age in the Fort Smith Special School District pro
vided, operated and maintained from and by taxes levied,
assessed and collected from resident citizens of Arkansas
and the Fort Smith Special School District?

Are the following courses, inclusive but not exclusive,
provided at said Junior College for white children of pub
lic school age, as aforesaid, at Fort Smith, Arkansas and
within the Fort Smith Special School District:

Art 13b, Business Law; Biology 13b; Band Music 13b;
Accounting 13b-14b; Chemistry 13b; English 13b-14b;
French 13b; History 13b-14b; International Relations
13b; Journalism 14b; Economics 13b-14b; Mathematics
13b-14b; Office machines 14b; Psychology 13a; Type-

[fol. bb] writing 13b-14b; Shorthand 13b-14b; Production
Printing; Voice 13b-14b; Violin 13b-14b; Spanish 13b;
and Swimming 13b?

Are Negro persons of public school age, as aforesaid, in
the Fort Smith Special School District permitted by de
fendants herein to attend classes and receive instruction
in the said Junior High School which is operated and
maintained by said defendants for white persons of public
school age at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

If the answer to question No. 4 herein is in the negative,
state why Negro persons of public school age are denied
these privileges of opportunities.

Does the said Board of Education of Fort Smith, Arkan
sas and the Fort Smith Special School District provide,
operate and maintain for the benefit, use and enjoyment

of Negro persons of public school age, as aforesaid, any
educational opportunities, facilities and advantages for
Junior College training and instruction at Fort Smith,
Arkansas and within the Fort Smith Special School Dis
trict?

Does the Board of Education of Fort Smith, Arkansas
and the Fort Smith Special School District provide, oper
ate and maintain for the benefit, use and enjoyment of
white persons of public school age in the said Special
School District a Senior High School?

Is the said Senior High School for white persons of
public school age operated and maintained from and by
taxes levied, assessed and collected from resident citizens
of Arkansas and of the Fort Smith Special School District?

Is there provided, operated and maintained in connec
tion with said Senior High School for the use and enjoy
ment of white pupils of public school age, as aforesaid,
an athletic stadium?

Has the said stadium been in the past or is it now avail
able for the use and enjoyment of Negro pupils of public
school age, as aforesaid, in the said Special School District?

[fol. cc] 10.

Have the defendants provided, in the past or are the
defendants now providing, for the Negro children of pub
lic school age, as aforesaid, in the Fort Smith Special School
District, any athletic stadium in connection with the Lin
coln High School for Negroes?

Are the following courses offered and taught at the
Senior High School for white children of public school
age in the Fort Smith Special School District: to-wit:

Accounting; Band; Business Law; Commercial Law;
Chemistry; Commercial [Georgraphy]; Distributive Edu
cation; Journalism; Latin; Linotype operation; Printing
press operation; Metal trades; Office Machines; Physics;
Spanish, Sociology; Shorthand; Typewriting; inclusive
but exclusive of others?

11.

12.

Have the following courses been offered and taught or
are they now being offered and taught at the Lincoln High
School for Negro children of public school age in the Fort
Smith Special School District, to-wit:

Accounting; Band; Business Law; Commercial Law;
Chemistry; Commercial [Georgraphy]; Distributive Edu
cation; Journalism; Latin; Linotype operation; Printing
press operation; Metal trades; Office machines; Physics;
Spanish, Sociology; Shorthand; Typewriting; inclusive
but exclusive of others?

13.

Are Negro children admitted to the above courses at the
Senior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

14.

At what value is machinery and equipment in the print
ing trades shops in the Senior High School for white chil
dren at Fort Smith, Arkansas carried in the records of the
Fort Smith Special School District?

15.

Is there a printing trades shop at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

Have the Negro children of public school age, as afore
said, at Fort Smith, Arkansas, and within the Fort Smith
Special School District, in the past or are they now per
mitted by the defendants herein, to use the printing trades
equipment and machinery at the Senior High School for
white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the
Fort Smith Special School District for educational pur
poses?

[fol. dd] 17.

If the answer to question No. 16 herein is in the neg
ative please state why Negro children are not permitted
to use the equipment and machinery mentioned in ques
tion No. 16 herein.

18.

Is there a two-room faculty lounge provided for the use
and enjoyment of female teachers at the Senior High
School for white pupils at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

19.

Is there a faculty lounge provided for the use and en
joyment of the female teachers at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

20.

Is there a cafeteria provided for the use and enjoyment
of the students and teachers at the Fort Smith Senior High
School for white children?

16.

21.

Is there a cafeteria provided for the use and enjoyment
of the students and teachers at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

What is the procurement value of the equipment and
machinery in the metal trades shop provided and main
tained for the use and enjoyment of white children at the
Senior High School for white children at Fort Smith, A r
kansas?

22,

23.

What is the procurement value of the equipment and
machinery in the metal trades shop provided and main
tained for the use and enjoyment of Negro children at the
Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

24.

Is the equipment and machinery in the metal trades
shops provided and maintained at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes in use and in good working order?

25.

Are there now and have there been provided in the
past courses in metal trades at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

26.

Is there a teacher for metal trades instruction employed
at the Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

27.

Are there provided metal lockers for the use and enjoy
ment of white children at the Senior High School for white
[fol. ee] children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

28.

How many metal lockers are provided for the use and
enjoyment of white children at the Senior High School
for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

What was the total procurement cost of all metal lockers
provided for the use and enjoyment of white children at
the Senior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

29.

30.

Are metal lockers provided for the use and enjoyment
of Negro students at the Lincoln High School for negroes
at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

31.

What provisions are made at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes for the safe keeping of the personal property
and clothing of Negro students?

32.

What is the procurement value of the books and equip
ment provided for the use and enjoyment of the white
students at the Senior High School for white children at
Fort Smith, Arkansas?

33.

Are the books and equipment in the library of the Senior
High School for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas
the property of the Fort Smith Special School District?

34.

What is the procurement value of the books and equip
ment provided for the use and enjoyment of Negro stu
dents at Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

35.

Are all of the books and equipment in the library at the
Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas,
the property of the Fort Smith Special School District?

36.

Is there an auditorium provided for the use and enjoy
ment of the white students at the Senior High School for
white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

37.

What is the seating capacity of the auditorium which is
provided for the use and enjoyment of white children at
[fol. ff] the Senior High School for white children at Fort
Smith, Arkansas?

38.

Is the autditorium in the Senior High School for white
children at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclusively as an
auditorium?

39.

Is there an auditorium provided for the use and enjoy
ment of Negro children at the Lincoln High School for
Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

40.

What is the seating capacity of the auditorium provided
for the use and enjoyment of the Negro students at the
Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

41.

Is the auditorium at the Lincoln High School for Ne
groes at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclusively as an au
ditorium?

42.

Is there a gymnasium provided for the use and enjoy
ment of white students at the Senior High School for
white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

What is the seating capacity of the gymnasium pro
vided for the use and enjoyment of white students at the
Senior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

43.

44.

Is the gymnasium in the Senior High School for white
children at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclusively as a
gymnasium?

45.

Is the gymnasium in the Lincoln High School for Negro
children at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclusively as a
gymnasium?

46.

If the answer to question No. 45 is in the negative,
please state for what other purposes the gymnasium at
the Lincoln High School for Negroes is used?

47.

Is there operated and maintained by the Board of Ed
ucation and the Fort Smith Special School District, a
Junior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

[fol. gg] 48.

Is the said Junior High School operated and maintained
by taxes levied, assessed and collected from resident cit
izens of Arkansas and the Fort Smith, Arkansas and the
Fort Smith Special School District?

49.

Is there provided, operated and maintained a swimming
pool for the use and enjoyment of the students at the
Junior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

50.

Is there provided, operated and maintained a swimming
pool for the use and enjoyment of Negro students at the
Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

51.

Is there provided, operated and maintained for the use
and enjoyment of white children at the Junior High School
for the white children, an auditorium?

52.

What is the seating capacity of the largest auditorium
provided and maintained for the use and enjoyment of
white children at the Junior High School for white chil
dren at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

53.

Are the facilities of the said auditorium in the Junior
High School for the white children open to and available
for the use and enjoyment of Negro students in the City
of Fort Smith and within the Fort Smith Special School
District?

54.

Are the facilities of the said auditorium in the Junior
High School for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas
open to and available for the use and enjoyment of groups
and organizations of adult white persons?

55.

Are the facilities of the said auditorium in the Junior
High School for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas
open to and available for the use and enjoyment of other
groups and organizations of adult Negro persons?

Is there provided a Junior High School at Fort Smith,
Arkansas for the use and enjoyment of Negro children
of public school age, as aforesaid?

[fol. hh] 57.

How old, in terms of years, is the Senior High School
Building operated and maintained for white children at
Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the Fort Smith Special
School District?

56.

58.

How old, in terms of years, is the Lincoln High School
Building operated and maintained for Negro children at
Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the Fort Smith Special
School District?

59.

Did you, on February 26, 1949, conduct a tour of inspec
tion of the Junior College for white children; the Senior
High School for white children; the Junior High School for
white; and the Lincoln High School for Negro children,
all in Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the Fort Smith Spe
cial School District?

60.

Was there present on said tour of inspection Donald
Jones, Regional Secretary of the Southwest Region of the
National Association for the Advancement of Colored Peo
ple, Dallas, Texas?

Filed May 16, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of
United States District Court, Western Division, Western
District.

[fol. ii] (Answers to Interrogatories.)

INTERROGATORY 1:

There is provided and operated by the Board of Directors
of the Special School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas, a

Junior College. The same is housed in the Fort Smith
Senior High School and is maintained and supported by
private tuition paid by the students enrolled therein, and
[fol. jj] not by public funds. There are no age limits or
residence requirements for attendance.

No.
INTERROGATORY 2:

Yes.
INTERROGATORY 3:

INTERROGATORY 4:

I assume that the drafter of this interrogatory inadvert
ently used the words “Junior High School instead of the
words “Junior College” . In any event, the answer is no.

INTERROGATORY 4b:

Assuming again that this and the preceding interrog
atory pertain to the “ Junior College , I state that there
has been no denial of such privileges and opportunities to
Negro persons. There is not provided and operated a Jun
ior College at Lincoln High School for the reason that there
has never been a demand or application therefor on the
part of any Negro student.

INTERROGATORY 5:
No.

INTERROGATORY 6:
Yes.

INTERROGATORY 7:
Yes.

INTERROGATORY 8:
Yes

[fol. kk] INTERROGATORY 9:

In the past and when there has been a demand therefor
the said stadium has been made available to Negro pupils
for their athletic contests with other Negro schools.

INTERROGATORY 10:

No, for the reason that there has never appeared to be
a demand therefor. Playgrounds and tennis courts and

other recreation facilities have been furnished and they
are adequate for the small enrollment at Lincoln High
School.

Yes.
INTERROGATORY 11:

INTERROGATORY 12:

Of the courses listed herein, only sociology and some as
pects of commercial geography are being offered and
taught at Lincoln High School.

No.
INTERROGATORY 13:

INTERROGATORY 14:

The approximate first cost was $30,000.00. The District
maintains no system of depreciation.

INTERROGATORY 15:

No. The course of study at Lincoln High School has been
adapted to the opportunities open to Negro students in this
community after they leave Lincoln High School.

[fol. 11] INTERROGATORY 16:
No.

INTERROGATORY 17:

No. This interrogatory has been answered in No. 15
above.

Yes.
INTERROGATORY 18:

INTERROGATORY 19:

No. Lounge facilities are not generally provided in the
District for the smaller faculties. There are only 6 female
teachers on the Lincoln High School faculty.

INTERROGATORY 20:

Yes. The volume of business is sufficient to make the
operation of a cafeteria at the Senior High School practical
and self-supporting.

No. The volume of business at Lincoln High School is
not sufficient to make the operation of a cafeteria there
practical and self-supporting.

INTERROGATORY 22:

Practically all of the equipment and machinery in the
metal trade shop of the Senior High School was donated
by the Federal Government at the beginning of World War
II without cost to the District. I judge that the approxi
mate procurement value of this equipment would be not
less than $25,000.00.

INTERROGATORY 23:

The procurement value of the equipment and machinery
in the general trade shop (mostly woodworking) at Lin
coln High School was approximately $3500.00, all of which
[fo.1. mm] was bought and paid for by the District.

INTERROGATORY 24:
Yes.

INTERROGATORY 25:

Only in a minor way in connection with the general shop
operated at the Lincoln High School.

INTERROGATORY 26:

The general shop teacher at Lincoln High School has a
general knowledge of the metal trades and his instruction
at the general shop necessarily include some aspects of
metal trade instruction.

IN T E R R O G A T O R Y 21:

Y es.
IN T E R R O G A T O R Y 27

INTERROGATORY 28:
Approximately 1000.

INTERROGATORY 29:
$7,437.20.

INTERROGATORY 30:

No. Lockers are not provided for any of the schools of
the District with relatively small enrollments.

INTERROGATORY 31:

Adequate coat racks and hangers similar to those in all
the other smaller schools in the School District with com
parable enrollment are provided.

[fol. nn] INTERROGATORY 32:

There is no present inventory of the procurement value
of books and equipment at the Senior High School library.
However, it has been the practice of the School Board to
expend an average of $1.00 per year per pupil for library
services there.

Yes.
INTERROGATORY 33:

INTERROGATORY 34:

There is no present inventory of the procurement value
of the books and equipment in the Lincoln High School
library. However, it has been the practice of the School
Board to expend an average of $1.00 per year per pupil
for library services there.

INTERROGATORY 35:

No. (Part of the books in the Lincoln High School li
brary are supplied by the Carnegie Library Board inas
much as the Lincoln High School library is used to some
extent in off school hours by the adult Negro citizens of
the community.)

Y es.
INTERROGATORY 36:

INTERROGATORY 37:
Approximately 1000.

Yes.
INTERROGATORY

INTERROGATORY

38:

39:
Yes.

[fol. oo] INTERROGATORY 40:

Between 350 and 400 with safety.

No,

Yes.

700..

INTERROGATORY 41:

INTERROGATORY 42:

INTERROGATORY 43:

INTERROGATORY 44:
Yes.

No.
INTERROGATORY 45:

INTERROGATORY 46:

As an auditorium. (When the combination auditorium-
gymnasium is used as a gymnasium there is seating space
for approximately 200 spectators.)

Yes.

INTERROGATORY 47:

INTERROGATORY 48:

INTERROGATORY 49:

Yes. The swimming pool at the Junior High School was
constructed in 1913. This is the only swimming pool in
the Fort Smith Public School system and its operation poses
a constant administrative and health problem. During the
last 15 or 20 years various, school boards have considered
[fol. pp] discontinuing the use of the swimming pool and
converting the space occupied by it into other facilities.
The present school board still has under advisement the

question of converting the swimming pool space to some
other use. Based on its experience with the swimming
pool in the Junior High School, the school boards of this
District, past and present, have been convinced that a
school swimming pool is of questionable value.

No.

Yes.

1,531

No.

Yes.

No.

INTERROGATORY 50:

INTERROGATORY 51:

INTERROGATORY 52:

INTERROGATORY 53:

INTERROGATORY 54:

INTERROGATORY 55:

INTERROGATORY 56:

Yes. At Lincoln School there are 6 grades, 7 to 12 in
clusive. Grades 7, 8 and 9 constitute the junior high school
division and grades 10, 11 and 12 constitute the senior
division. The junior high school division has an enroll
ment of 202 this year, and the senior high school division
has an enrollment of 118 this year. In schools with a
ffol. qq] combined enrollment no greater than at Lincoln
High School, it is the customary practice throughout the
State to operate the junior high school and the senior high
school on a combined basis.

INTERROGATORY 57:
20 years.

INTERROGATORY 58:

The original Lincoln High School building was con
structed in 1893 or 1894. It was enlarged, reconditioned
and largely rebuilt in 1929.

INTERROGATORY 59:
Yes.

Y es.
J W Ramsey

Superintendent, Fort Smith
Public Schools

IN T E R R O G A T O R Y 60:

Filed May 28, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of
United States District Court.

[fol. rr] (Order Overruling Motion for Summary
Judgment.)

On this 13th day of June, 1949, come the plaintiffs by
J. R. Booker, U. Simpson Tate and Robert L. Carter, their
attorneys, and come the defendants by John P. Woods and
J. Bruce Shaw, their attorneys, and comes on for hearing
plaintiffs’ motion for a summary judgment, and defend
ants’ motion for a more definite statement.

After hearing argument of counsel, and upon considera
tion of said motions, Plaintiffs’ motion for a summary judg
ment is overruled, and the exceptions of the plaintiffs
thereto are saved, and defendants’ motion for a more
definite statement is overruled, and the exceptions of the
defendants thereto are saved, and the defendants are
granted 20 days from this date in which to file their
answer herein.

Jno. E. Miller,
U. S. District Judge.

FILED June 13, 1949. Truss Russell, Clerk. By E. A.
Riddle, Deputy Clerk, Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of
United States District Court.

[fol. ss] In the District Court of the United States for the
Western District of Arkansas Fort Smith Division
Charles L. Brown, Infant, by his Step-father and
next friend, Arthur Bouser, et al Plaintiffs vs. J. W.
Ramsey, Superintendent of Schools, et al Defendants
Civil Action No. 798

(Answer.)

Come the Defendants and for their answer to the com
plaint and to the document filed herein by Plaintiffs, de
nominated “Bill of Particulars” , treated as a part of the
complaint, allege:

1. The Defendants deny that the sum, or value, in con
troversy exceeds, exclusive of interest and costs, the sum
of Three Thousand Dollars ($3,000.00). The complaint
shows on its face that the matters complained of did not
arise under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation,
custom, or usage of the State of Arkansas, or any political
division, or agency thereof. The Defendants therefore
allege that this Court has acquired no jurisdiction over
these Defendants, or of this cause, by reason of the consti
tutional and statutory provisions set out in paragraph 1
of the complaint.

2. The complaint shows on its fact that there is not
present a question of actual controversy between Plaintiffs
and Defendants of which this Court can assume jurisdic
tion under the statutes of the United States providing for
declaratory judgments.

[fol. tt] 3. The Defendants deny that the corporate limits
of the City of Fort Smith define, delimit and bound the
Special School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas; deny that
the persons named in paragraph 3 of the complaint are the
Superintendent and Board of Education Directors of the
City of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; allege
that said parties are respectively the Superintendent and
the members of the Board of Directors of the “Special
School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas” ; admit all other
allegations of paragraph 3 of the complaint.

4. The Defendants admit that the Plaintiffs are citizens
and residents of the City of Fort Smith, but deny that the
Plaintiffs Arthur Bouser, Thomas Davis, Emanuel W il
liams, Calvin W. Smith, Earnie Chaney and Allen Black,
Sr., or the minors in whose behalf it is alleged that they
appear herein, are taxpayers; admit that all of the minors
named in the complaint are entitled to attend the public
schools of the Special School District of Fort Smith, A r
kansas; and admit that the Plaintiffs, and the minors for
whom they purport to appear, are of African descent and
Negro blood. For further answer to paragraph 4 of the
complaint the Defendants state that the allegations of said
paragraph are insufficient to show a cause of action in be
half of the following of the Plaintiffs, and the minors
whom they purport to represent, to-wit: Thomas Davis,
Arthur Bouser, Calvin W. Smith, Tishon Haynes, Charlie
C. Hartgroves, Ernest A. Henry and Alford Wesley, and
the action as to them, and each of them should be dis
missed. The Defendants deny that the Defendant School
District has ever promulgated, or enforced, separate rules
and regulations for the operation and maintenance of white
and Negro schools. A ll other allegations of paragraph 4 of
the complaint and paragraph 1 of the Bill of Particulars are
admitted.

[fol. uu] 5. The Defendants admit the allegations of para
graphs 5 and 6 of the complaint.

6. The Defendants deny that the State of Arkansas has
provided by Statute free text books for all children be
tween the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years.

7. Answering paragraph 8 of the complaint and para
graph 2 of the Bill of Particulars, the Defendants deny
that the maintenance of separate schools for Negroes and
whites is discriminatory; deny that segregation, as pro
vided by the laws of Arkansas is in and of itself discrimina
tory; deny that the schools of the Defendant District are
operated in a manner violative of Section 1 of the Four
teenth (14th) Amendment to the Constitution of the
United States; deny that the Lincoln High School is in an
unsafe, or unsanitary physical condition; deny that the fa
cilities of Lincoln High School for educational purposes are

grossly inadequate, or unequal to those provided for white
children; deny that the curriculum of Lincoln High School
is inadequate, or unequal to that provided for white chil
dren; deny that said Lincoln High School has inadequate,
or outmoded equipment for teaching shop work; deny that
said machinery is unequal for educational purposes to that
provided for the white schools; deny that Lincoln
High School has no facilities for teaching metal
trades; deny that no gymnasium facilities are pro
vided at Lincoln High School; deny that the courses
in home economics are inadequate; and deny that
the students attending Lincoln High School are denied
any rights or privileges guaranteed to them by the Four
teenth (14th) Amendment to the Constitution of the
United States, or by any other constitutional provision or
statute. A ll other allegations of paragraph 8 of the com
plaint and 2 (a) of the Bill of Particulars are admitted.

[fol. vv] 8. In answer to paragraph 9 of the complaint and
3 (a) of the Bill of Particulars, the Defendants admit that
Negro children are not permitted to attend the schools of
the Defendant District maintained for white children, but
deny that any constitutional provision of the United States
is thereby violated. A ll other allegations of paragraph 9
of the complaint and paragraph 3 (a) of the Bill of Par
ticulars are denied.

9. The Defendants deny each and every allegation set
out in paragraph 10 of the complaint.

10. Answering paragraph 11 of the complaint, the De
fendants deny that they are now refusing, or that they ever
have at any time refused to furnish school facilities for the
Negro children, which are adequate and which are equal
to the facilities furnished the white children of the Defend
ant District; deny that they are now refusing, or have ever
refused to furnish equal and adequate facilities for Negro
pupils on account of their race or color; admit the other
allegations of said paragraph 11 of the complaint.

11. Defendants deny each and every allegation of para
graph 12 of the complaint.

12. Answering paragraph 13 of the complaint and para
graph 6 of the Bill of Particulars, the Defendants allege
that they are not refusing to provide, nor have they ever
failed, or refused, to provide for the Negro students of De
fendant District any courses of study for which there has
been need, demand, or request. No Negro student is now,
or ever has been, denied any scholastic right, or privilege,
available to the white students of the District on account of
his race or color. A ll other allegations of paragraph 13 of
the complaint and paragraph 6 of the Bill of Particulars
are denied.

[fol. ww] 13. The Defendants deny all of the allegations
of paragraph 14 of the complaint.

14. Defendants deny that they have adopted or have
followed or maintained any policy, custom or usage in
maintaining inadequate, unsanitary and inferior schools
and school facilities for Negro children. They deny that
there has been any denial of the rights of the Plaintiffs
and their children to the equal protection of the laws in
violation of the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment to the Con
stitution of the United States. They deny that they are
now promulgating, and deny that they have ever promul
gated or enforced, any unlawful practice, custom or usage
in the operation of the Defendant School District. They
deny that the Plaintiffs have been damaged by virtue of
any wrongful or illegal policy, or by any custom or usage
of the Defendants.

WHEREFORE, Defendants pray that the complaint be
dismissed, and that they have judgment for their costs
herein.

Filed June 27, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of
United States District Court.

[fol. yy] (Amended Complaint.)

Come now the plaintiffs and file this their amended com
plaint in the above entitled and numbered cause, and for
such amended complaint they allege:

1. The jurisdiction of this honorable Court is invoked
under Judicial Code, Section 24 (1), (28 United States
Code, Section 41 (1), this being a suit in equity which
arises under the Constitution and laws of the United States,
viz., the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment of said [Consti-
tion] and Sections 41 and 43 of Title 8 of the United States
Code, wherein the matter in controversy exceeds exclusive
of interest and costs the sum of THREE THOUSAND
($3,000.00) DOLLARS.

The jurisdiction of this honorable Court is also invoked
under Judicial Code, Section 24 (14), (28 United States
Code, Section 41 (14)), this being a suit in equity au
thorized by law to be brought to redress the deprivation
under color of law, statute, regulation, custom and usage
of a state rights, privileges and immunities secured by the
Constitution of the United States, viz., the Fourteenth
(14th) Amendment to said Constitution, and of rights
secured by laws of the United States providing for equal
rights of citizens of the United States and of all persons
within the jurisdiction of the United States, viz., Sections
41 and 43 of Title 8 of the United States Code.

[fol. zz] 2. Plaintiffs show further that this is a pro
ceeding for a declaratory judgment and injunction under
Section 274 D of the Judicial Code for the purpose of de
termining a question of actual controversy between the
parties, to wit: The question of whether the practice of
the defendants in adopting, enforcing, and maintaining
the policy, custom and usage of the defendants, and each
of them, in maintaining inadequate, unsanitary, unsafe
and inferior schools, school facilities and curricula for
Negro children in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, between the ages of six (6) and twenty-
one (21), while maintaining modern, sanitary, safe and
superior schools, school facilities and curricula for white
children in said Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
constitutes a denial of the right to the plaintiffs, their

children and those in whose behalf this suit is brought to
equal protection of laws and of privileges guaranteed to
plaintiffs under the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States.

3. A ll parties to this action, both plaintiffs and defend
ants, are citizens of the United States, and of the State
of Arkansas, and are resident and domiciled in said State.
The plaintiffs say that the defendant J. W. Ramsey is the
Superintendent of Schools at Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas; that defendant Raymond F. Orr is.
president of the Board of Education at Fort Smith, Sebas
tian County, Arkansas Special School District and that
defendants Delmar Edwards, J. Fred Patton, Sam Tressler,
W. D. Powell and Bruce Shaw, Esquire, are members of
the said Board of Education of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, and that said defendants are all, and
each of them, members of the said Board of Education of
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; and that at all
times mentioned herein the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas was and is now by law declared a body
corporate; that the corporate limits of the Special School
District of Fort Smith, Sebastian County Arkansas are
defined by the laws of Arkansas; that the said Special
School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas is a body cor
porate; that the officers of the defendant Board of Educa
tion are agents of said Special School District as provided,
by the Laws of the State of Arkansas; and that the defend
ant J. W. Ramsey is the duly selected and qualified and
acting Superintendent of free public schools for the Special
School District of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
and that Raymond F. Orr is the duly elected, qualified and.
acting president of the Board of Education of the Special
School District of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas,
and that J. Fred Patton, Delmar Edwards, Sam Tressler,
W. D. Powell and Bruce Shaw, Esquire, are the duly and
legally elected, qualified and acting members of the said
[fob aaa] Board of Education for the Special School Dis
trict of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and that,
the said defendants J. W. Ramsey, Raymond F. Orr, J.
Fred Patton, Delmar Edwards, Sam Tressler, W. D..

Powell and Bruce Shaw, Esquire and each of them re
side in Sebastian County, Arkansas and within the terri
tory limits of the United States Federal District Court for
the Western Division of the Western District of Arkansas,
and that the defendant Board of Education of the Special
School District of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas
and J. W, Ramsey, Superintendent of Free Public Educa
tion for Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas all and
each of them reside in Sebastian County, and the city of
Fort Smith, Arkansas.

4. The plaintiffs say that the plaintiff, Elmer Perry,
Sr. resides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas, and is a tax payer and has an infant son be
tween the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years, to
wit, Elmer Perry, Jr., age sixteen (16) years, who resides
in Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and who is
entitled to attend the secondary free public schools in said
city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and he
does attend the 10th grade at Lincoln High School, under
the rules and regulations promulgated by the defendants,
and each of them; that the plaintiff Thomas Davis, re
sides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkan
sas, and is a tax-payer and that he has an infant daugh
ter who is between the ages of six (6) and twenty-one
(21) years, to wit, Henrene Davis, age 9 years, who resides
at Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and is entitled
to attend the elementary free public schools in the said
city of Fort Smith and she does attend the third (3rd)
grade at the Washington Elementary School under the
rules and regulations promulgated by the defendants and
each of them; that the plaintiff Percy Edwards, resides in
the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and
is a tax-payer, and that he has an infant daughter who is
between the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years,
to wit, Shirley E. Edwards, age 15 years, who resides at
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas and is entitled
to attend the secondary free public schools in said city of
Fort Smith and she does attend the tenth (10th grade
at Lincoln High School under the rules and regulations
promulgated by the defendants and each of them; that the

plaintiff, Emanuel Williams, resides in the city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and is a tax-payer,
and that he has an infant son who is between the ages of
six (6) and twenty-one (21) years, to wit, Samuel R. W il
liams, age 14, who resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas and is entitled to attend the secondary free
public schools in the city of Fort Smith and he does at
tend the ninth (9th) grade at Lincoln High School under
the rules and regulations promulgated by the defend-
[fol. bbb] ants and each of them; that the plaintiff Arthur
Bouser, resides in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas and is a tax-payer, and that he has a
step-son who is between the ages of six (6) and twenty-
one (21) years, to wit, Charles L. Brown, age twelve (12)
who resides at Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas
and is entitled to attend the elementary free public schools
in the said city of Fort Smith and he does attend in the
fifth (5th) grade at Howard Elementary School under the
rules and regulations promulgated by the defendants and
each of them; that the plaintiff Calvin W. Smith resides
in the city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas
and is a tax payer, and that he has an infant son who is
between the ages of six and twenty-one, to wit, John T.
Smith, age 8 years who resided at Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas and is entitled to attend the secondary
free public schools in the said city of Fort Smith and he
does attend St. John School in said city; that Tishon
Haynes, resides in the city of Fort Smith, Arkansas and
is a tax payer, and that he has an infant son who is be
tween the ages of six and twenty-one years, to wit, W il
liam Henry Haynes, age 9 who resides at Fort Smith, A r
kansas and is entitled to attend the elementary free pub
lic school in the said city of Fort Smith and he does attend
the 4th grade at the Howard School under the rules and
regulations promulgated by the defendants and each of
them; that Earnie Chaney, resides in the city of Fort
Smith, Arkansas and is a tax-payer, and that he has an
infant son, Ernie Randolph Chaney, age 14, who is be
tween the ages of six and twenty-one years and entitled to
attend the free public schools of the said city of Fort Smith
and that he does attend the 9th grade at the Lincoln School

under the rules and regulations promulgated by the de
fendants and each of them; that Otto Byrd resides in the
city of Fort Smith, Arkansas and is a tax payer, and that
he has an infant daughter who is between the ages of six
and twenty-one years who resides at Fort Smith, Arkan
sas, to wit, Ruth Neioma. Byrd, age 16 and is entitled to
attend the free public schools of the said city and she does
attend the 11th grade at the Lincoln School under the
rules and regulations promulgated by the defendants and
each of them; that Governor Knauls, resides in the city
of Fort Smith, Arkansas and is a tax payer, and that he
has an infant daughter who is between the ages of six
and twenty-one years, to wit, Paulandas Knauls, age 17
who resides in Fort Smith, Arkansas and is entitled to
attend the free public schools of said city of Fort Smith,
Arkansas and she does attend the 12th grade at the Lin
coln School under the rules and regulations promulgated
[fol. ccc] by the defendants and each of them; that Charlie
C. Hartgrove resides in the city of Fort Smith, Arkansas
and is a tax payer and that he has an infant daughter who
is between the ages of six and twenty-one years who re
sides at Fort Smith, Arkansas and is entitled to attend
the free public schools of said city, to wit, Charlie Mae
Hartgrove, and that she does attend the 2nd grade at the
Howard School under the rules and regulations promul
gated by the defendants and each of them; that the Rev
erend Ernest A. Henry, resides in the city of Fort Smith,
Arkansas and is a tax payer, and that he has a son who
is between the ages of six and twenty-one years, to wit,
Robert Lee Henry, age 8 who lives at Fort Smith, Arkan
sas and is entitled to attend the free public schools of the
said city of Fort Smith, Arkansas and he does attend the
2nd grade at the Howard School under the rules and reg
ulations promulgated by the defendants and each of them;
that Alford Wesley resides at Fort Smith, Arkansas and is
a tax payer, and that he has an infant daughter Shirley
Marie Wesley, age 11, who is between the ages of six and
twenty-one years and resides at Fort Smith Arkansas
and is entitled to attend the free public schools of the said
city of Fort Smith, Arkansas and that she does attend the
5th grade at the Howard School under the rules and reg

ulations promulgated by the defendants and each of them,
and that Allen Black, Sr., resides in the city of Fort Smith,
Arkansas and is a tax payer and that he has an infant
son who is between the ages of six and twenty-one years,
to wit, Allen Black, Jr., age 15 who resides in Fort Smith,
Arkansas and is entitled to attend the free public schools
of the said city of Fort Smith, Arkansas and he does at
tend the 11th grade at the Lincoln High School under the
rules and regulations promulgated by the defendants and
each of them. The plaintiffs say further that this law suit
is brought for the benefit of these plaintiffs and their said
children, as well as for the benefit of all other persons sim
ilarly situated in the said city of Fort Smith Sebastian
County, Arkansas; that these plaintiffs and those whom
they represent are all persons of African decent and Ne
gro blood; that the defendants J. W. Ramsey is Superin
tendent of free public schools at Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas, and that Raymond F. Orr is president
of the Board of Education of the Special School District
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, and that the
defendants J. W. Ramsey and Raymond F. Orr are sued
in their official capacities herein alleged; that the Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas Special School District
is an Administrative Agency of the said city of Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas and the State of Arkansas
by virtue of and under the general laws of the State of
Arkansas; that the officers and members of the Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas Board of Education are all and
[fol. ddd] each of them agents and officials of the said
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas Special School
District; and said defendant, The Fort Smith Special
School District is sued in its official capacity.

5. That the State of Arkansas has provided by con
stitution and statute for an efficient system of public
schools, (Article 14, Sections 1-4 of the Constitution of
the State of Arkansas).

6. That the State of Arkansas, under its general laws,
has declared and provided for a free public school system
for the education of all children between the ages of six

(6) and twenty-one (21) years. (Article 14, Sections
1-4).

7. That the State of Arkansas, under its general laws,
has provided for free text books for all children in grades
one to eight, inclusive, in all basic subjects taught in said
grades. (School Laws of Arkansas, 1943 Ed, Ch X IV §
11782)

8. That under the Constitution and laws of the State of
Arkansas, the defendants and each of them are charged
with the duty of maintaining a general and uniform sys
tem of free public schools to the children between the
ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years who reside in
the district of their authority; that under the constitution
and laws of the State of Arkansas, defendants, and each
of them, are charged with the duty of making available
public school funds and public school facilities within the
city of Fort Smith for the education of white and Negro
children; that acting as administrative officers of the State
of Arkansas, the defendants, and each of them, are in
truth and in fact maintaining a public school system in
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, and within the Special
School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas which is supported
by the levying, assessment and collection of taxes, in
cluding taxes from the plaintiffs herein, imposed upon
resident citizens of the said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas; and that the State of Arkansas has
levied, assessed and collected taxes from these plaintiffs,
and those similarly situated and for whose benefit this
law suit is brought, for the purpose of supporting the free
public school system in the said city of Fort Smith, Sebas
tian County, Arkansas; that such school system is main
tained on a separate, segregated and discriminatory basis
with Negroes being forced and compelled to attend one
(1) high school, to wit, the Lincoln High School exclusively
which school is more than fifty (50) years old and in an
unsafe and unsanitary physical condition that its facilities
for educational purposes are grossly inadequate and un
equal in every respect to those provided for white children;
that its curriculum is inadequate and unequal to that pro-
[fol. eee] vided for white children; that it has inadequate

and outmoded equipment for teaching shop work; that this
machinery is unlike, dissimilar and unequal for educational
purposes to the machinery used in schools for white
children; that there are no facilities for teaching metal
trades, auto mechanics, linotyping, printing, and other
crafts and skills which are taught in high schools for
white children; that there are no equal facilities for
gymnasium; that the courses in home economics are in
adequate, unlike and unequal to those provided for white
children; that such courses as physics geometry, business
courses and romance languages which are taught in schools
for white children are not taught at the school for Negro
children; that under the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment
to the Constitution of the United States and the laws of
the United States, the defendants, and each of them, are
required to provide educational facilities for said Negro
Children without discrimination because of race or color
of said Negro children.

9. That the schools which Negro children are required,
by the said defendants, to attend are known as Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas schools for Negroes, the same
being one high school and one or more elementary schools;
and that all pupils of African decent and Negro blood
eligible to attend the said high school are often required to
travel long distances to reach the high school maintained
by the defendants for Negro children; that many of said
Negro children pass superior schools which are maintained
for white children while enroute to the high school main
tained for Negro children; that they are denied admission
to the superior schools which are maintained for white
children because of their race and color in violation of the
Constitution and laws of the United States.

and enforced by said defendants are inadequate and un
healthy and unsafe in many respects and that they are
grossly and palpably unequal to those provided for white
children in the said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas; that said buildings maintained for free public
school purposes for Negroes are wholly inadequate for
housing and proper instruction for said Negro children
in that that the halls are narrow and unsafe, the stairs are
too narrow to allow hasty, safe, sane and expeditious exits
in case of fire; that the class rooms in said schools for
[fol. fff ] Negroes in said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian
County Arkansas are not equipped or furnished with
modern teaching equipment or furniture, notwithstanding
the fact that school buildings provided for the attendance
and instruction of white children are modern in architec
tural design, free of hazards and dangers, and fully
equipped with modern teaching equipment and furnish
ings; that said buildings for white children are adequately
lighted and ventilated; that in these respects Negro
children in Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas are
grossly, flagrantly and deliberately discriminated against
to their great harm; that as a result of this unlawful dis
crimination the said Negro students in the free public
schools of said Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas
have suffered and are now suffering great injury, harm
and damages to their physical health, their mental health,
their educational development, their morale and to their
educational training all of which they suffer because of
their race and color and contrary to and in violation of the
Constitution and laws of the United States.

11. The plaintiffs further say that the defendants, and
each of them, are now and have been for a long time prior
to the date of filing this petition furnishing to the white
pupils under their supervision and authority in said city of
Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas adequate facilities
for education in standardized schools as provided for under
the general laws of the State of Arkansas; that these de
fendants have for a long time prior to the date of filing this
petition refused and are now refusing, contrary to the laws
and Constitution of the United States, to furnish such equal
and adequate facilities to Negro pupils between the ages

of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years who reside in the city
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, on account of
their race and color.

12. That the policy, custom and usage of said defend
ants, and each of them, have been and are now to maintain
inadequate, unequal, unsafe, unsanitary and inferior school
buildings, secondary school curriculum, and school facil
ities as hereinbefore alleged for Negro children of the said
city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, because of
their race and color, while maintaining adequate, modern,
safe, sanitary and superior school buildings, school curri
cula and school facilities for white children of free public
school age in the said city of Fort Smith, Sebastian County,
Arkansas, as hereinbefore alleged.

13. The plaintiffs say further that before the filing of
this law suit the plaintiffs, individually and on behalf of
their aforesaid minor children, and on behalf of all parents
and persons similarly situated, petitioned the defendants
[fol. gggj and the Board of Education of the Special School
District of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas to
cease their unlawful custom, policy and usage of requiring
Negro children of school age under their supervision and
authority to attend and use inadequate, unequal, unsafe,
unsanitary and inferior schools and school facilities as
hereinbefore alleged because of their race and color, while
said defendants supplied to white children of school age in
the same area, viz., Fort Smith, Sebastian County, A r
kansas modern, safe, sanitary and superior school buildings
and school facilities, as hereinbefore alleged in this com
plaint; that said petition was filed on or about November
16, 1948; that many and numerous oral appeals have been
made to said defendants for a long period of time prior to
the filing of this law suit, and that said petition and the
numerous oral appeals have been ignored by these said de
fendants, and each of them, and the defendants, and each
of them have continued and are now promulgating and
enforcing their said unlawful practices, customs and usages
upon these plaintiffs and the minor children of these plain
tiffs solely because of their race and color,

WHEREFORE, plaintiffs respectfully pray the honor
able Court:

(1) That this Court adjudge, decree and declare the
rights and legal relations of the parties to the subject mat
ter herein in controversy in order that such declaration and
decree shall have the force and effect of a final judgment
and decree;

(2) That this honorable Court enter a judgment, order
and decree declaring that the policy, custom and usage of
the defendants and each of them, in maintaining and fur
nishing school buildings and school facilities for Negro
children between the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21)
years in Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, which
are unsafe, unsanitary, unequal and inferior to those fur
nished to white children of school age in said city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, is a denial of the equal
protection of laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth (14th)
Amendment to the Constitution, and is therefore, uncon
stitutional and void; and

(3) That this Court issue a permanent injunction for
ever restraining the defendants, and each of them, and
their successors in office from maintaining a policy, custom
[fol. hhh] and usage of furnishing school buildings, curri
cula and school facilities for Negro children between the
ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years in the said city
of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, which are un
safe, unsanitary, unequal and inferior to those furnished
to all other children of said age group in said city of Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas; and

(4) That this honorable Court issue a permanent in
junction forever restraining the defendants, and each of

them, and their successors in office from further discrim
inating against Negro children between the ages of six (6)
and twenty-one (21) years in Fort Smith, Sebastian
County, Arkansas in curricula and courses of study, school
buildings and educational facilities solely because of their
race and color;

(5) The plaintiffs herein pray for such other and fur
ther orders as the facts and equity demand.

Filed July 9, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division of
United States District Court.

[fol. iii] (Answer to Amended Complaint.)

Come the Defendants and, for their Answer to the
Amended Complaint, allege:

1. The Defendants deny that the sum, or value, in con
troversy exceeds, exclusive of interest and costs, the sum
of Three Thousand ($3,000.00) Dollars. The Amended
Complaint shows on its face that the matters complained
of did not arise under color of any statute, ordinance, reg
ulation, custom, or usage of the State of Arkansas, or any
political division, or agency thereof. The Defendants,
therefore, allege that this Court has acquired no jurisdic
tion over these Defendants, or of this cause, by reason of
the constitutional and statutory provisions set out in para
graph 1 of the Amended Complaint.

2. The Amended Complaint shows on its face that
there is not present a question of actual controversy be
tween Plaintiffs and Defendants of which this Court can
assume jurisdiction under the statutes of the United States
providing for declaratory judgments.
[fol. j jj] 3. The allegations of paragraph 3 of the Amended
Complaint are admitted.

4. The Defendants admit that the Plaintiffs are citizens
and residents of the City of Fort Smith, but deny that the
Plaintiffs, Arthur Bouser, Thomas Davis, Emanuel W il
liams, Calvin W. Smith, Earnie Chaney and Allen Black,

Sr., or the minors in whose behalf it is alleged that they
appear herein, are taxpayers; admit that all of the minors
named in the Amended Complaint are entitled to attend
the public schools of the Special School District of Fort
Smith, Arkansas; and admit that the Plaintiffs, and the
minors for whom they purport to appear, are of African
descent and Negro blood. For further answer to paragraph
4 of the Amended Complaint, the Defendants state that the
allegations of said paragraph are insufficient to show a
cause of action in behalf of the following of the Plaintiffs,
and the minors whom they purport to represent, to-wit:
Thomas Davis, Arthur Bouser, Calvin W. Smith, Tishon
Haynes, Charlie C. Hartgroves, Ernest A. Henry and A l
ford Wesley, and the action as to them, and each of them
should be dismissed. The Defendants deny that the De
fendant School District has ever promulgated, or enforced,
separate rules and regulations for the operation and main
tenance of white and Negro schools. A ll other allegations
of paragraph 4 of the Amended Complaint are admitted.

5. The Defendants admit the allegations of paragraphs
5 and 6 of the Amended Complaint.

6. The Defendants admit the allegations of paragraph
7 of the Amended Complaint.

[fol. kkk] 7. Answering paragraph 8 of the Amended
Complaint, the Defendants deny that the maintenance of
separate schools for Negroes and whites is discriminatory;
deny that segregation, as provided by the laws of Arkansas,
is in and of itself discriminatory; deny that the schools of
the Defendant District are operated in a manner violative
of Section 1 of the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States; deny that the Lincoln
High School is in an unsafe, or unsanitary physical condi
tion; deny that the facilities of Lincoln High School for
educational purposes are grossly inadequate, or unequal
to those provided for white children; deny that the curri
culum of Lincoln High School is inadequate, or unequal
to that provided for white children; deny that said Lincoln
High School has inadequate, or outmoded equipment for
teaching shop work; deny that said machinery is unequal
for educational purposes to that provided for the white

schools; deny that Lincoln High School has no facilities
for teaching metal trades; deny that no gymnasium facil
ities are provided at Lincoln High School; deny that the
courses in home economics are inadequate; and deny that
the students attending Lincoln High School are denied any
rights or privileges guaranteed to them by the Fourteenth
(14th) Amendment to the Constitution of the United
States, or by any other Constitutional provision or statute.
A ll other allegations of paragraph 8 of the Amended Com
plaint are admitted.

8. In answer to paragraph 9 of the Amended Complaint,
the Defendants admit that Negro children are not per
mitted to attend the schools of the Defendant District
maintained for white children, but deny that any con
stitutional provision of the United States is thereby vio
lated. A ll other allegations of paragraph 9 of the Amended
Complaint are denied.

[fol. Ill] 9. The Defendants deny each and every allega
tion set out in paragraph 10 of the Amended Complaint.

10. Answering paragraph 11 of the Amended Com
plaint, the Defendants deny that they are now refusing, or
that they ever have at any time refused, to furnish school
facilities for the Negro children which are adequate and
which are equal to the facilities furnished the white chil
dren of the Defendant District; deny that they are now
refusing, or have ever refused, to furnish equal and ade
quate facilities for Negro pupils on account of their race or
color; admit the other allegations of said paragraph 11 of
the Amended Complaint.

11. Defendants deny each and every allegation of para
graph 12 of the Amended Complaint.

12. Answering paragraph 13 of the Amended Com
plaint, the Defendants allege that they are not refusing to
provide, nor have they ever failed or refused to provide, for
the Negro students of the Defendant District any courses of
study for which there has been need, demand, or request.
No Negro student is now, or ever has been, denied any
scholastic right, or privilege, available to the white stu

dents of the District on account of his race or color. All
other allegations of paragraph 13 of the Amended Com
plaint are denied.

13. The Defendants deny all of the allegations of para
graph 14 of the Amended Complaint,

14. Defendants deny that they have adopted or have fol
lowed or maintained any policy, custom or usage in main
taining inadequate, unsanitary and inferior schools and
school facilities for Negro children. They deny that there
has been any denial of the rights of the Plaintiffs and their
[fol. mmm] children to the equal protection of the laws in
violation of the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment to the Con
stitution of the United States. They deny that they are
now promulgating, and deny that they have ever promul
gated or enforced, any unlawful practice, custom or usage
in the operation of the Defendant School District. They
deny that the Plaintiffs have been damaged by virtue of
any wrongful or illegal policy, or by any custom or usage
of the Defendants.

WHEREFORE, Defendants pray that the Amended Com
plaint be dismissed, and that they have judgment for their
costs herein.

Filed July 26, 1949, in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division,
Western District of Arkansas, etc.

[fol. nnn] (Motion and Order to Suppress Sub
poena and Stipulation of Counsel.)

On this November 9, 1949, comes on for hearing defend
ants’ motion to suppress plaintiffs’ duces tecum subpoena,
the plaintiffs appearing by Messrs. U. Simpson Tate and
J. R. Booker, their attorneys, and the defendants appear
ing by Messrs. Daily & Woods, their attorneys, and after
a discussion with counsel the Court orders that said sub
poena be and is quashed upon the condition that it is
agreed in open Court by the parties that a copy of the
minutes heretofore furnished to the plaintiffs represents
the record of all of the minutes and proceedings had by

the School Board in its operation of the Fort Smith Junior
College; Provided, that if in the trial of the case it develops
that the School Board is spending public money derived
by taxation in support of the Junior College, the Court will
then take further action on the subpoena.

Then comes on this case for trial before the Court upon
its merits, and evidence on the part of the plaintiffs is
presented until the hour of adjournment when further
proceedings are postponed until tomorrow morning at nine
o’clock.

Jno. E. Miller,
United States District Judge.

FILED November 9, 1949, Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division
of the United States District Court, Western Division.

[fol. ooo] (Amendment to Complaint.)

Come Plaintiffs for an additional amendment to their
complaint, stating:

1. That Defendants did on the day of the trial of the
issues in said cause, to-wit, November 9th 1949, file a
motion to quash the subpoena duces tecum heretofore
issued on behalf and at the instance of Plaintiffs, which
subpoena was duly served by Plaintiffs upon J. W. Ramsey,
a defendant herein. That upon the presentation of the
said motion of Defendants, and after discussion upon same,
a stipulation was entered into by and between Plaintiffs
and Defendants, that the minutes of the Junior College
of Fort Smith, Arkansas are not kept by a separate Board
of Trustees, but such records reflecting acts of a super
visory nature and pertaining to the activities and business
and curricular administration of said Fort Smith Junior
College are reflected in the minutes of the Fort Smith
Special School District.

2. Plaintiffs therefore aver and allege that the Junior
College of Fort Smith, Arkansas is operated by the said
Special School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas exclusively
for white students, from funds derived from public taxa

tion and other public sources and that no Negro students
are permitted to attend and receive instruction at said
Junior College and no similar Junior College advantages
are provided for said Negroes in Fort Smith, Arkansas,
and said conduct is discriminatory against these plaintiffs
and those on whose behalf this cause has been entered on
account of their race and color and in violation of the laws
[fol. ppp] of the State of Arkansas and the Constitution
and laws of the United States.

WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray that this amendment be
made a part of the complaint, the amended complaint and
all other pleadings filed herein.

Filed November 10, 1949, Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division
of the United States District Court, Western Division.

[fol. qqq] (Answer to Amendment to Complaint.)

Now come the Defendants and, without waiving the
Motion to Strike heretofore filed herein, but insisting on
same, file this their answer to the Amendment to the Com
plaint filed by Plaintiffs on November 9, 1949, and state:

1. The Defendants admit each and every allegation of
paragraph 1 of said Amendment.

2. The Defendants deny each and every allegation set
out in paragraph 2 of said Amendment.

Filed November 10, 1949, Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division,
United States District Court.

[fol. 1] In the United States District Court Western Dis
trict of Arkansas Fort Smith Division Charles L.
Brown, Infant, by his Stepfather and next friend,
Arthur Bouser, et al., Plaintiffs, vs. J. W. Ramsey,
Superintendent of Schools, et al., Defendants. Civil
No. 798.

Be it remembered that on November 9, 1949, the above
entitled cause coming on for hearing before the Honorable
John E. Miller, United States District Judge, the parties
plaintiff and defendant announced ready for trial, where
upon the following proceedings were had, to-wit:

A ppearances

J. Robert Booker and U. Simpson Tate Attorneys for
Plaintiffs.

John P. Woods Jack Daily and Bruce Shaw Attorneys
for Defendants.

[fol. 2] The Court: Are the plaintiffs ready in Civil 798?
Booker: Yes, sir.
The Court: Are the defendants ready?
Mr. Woods: Yes sir, we have a motion to file.
The Court: Motion to quash subpoena duces tecum?
Mr. Woods: Yes sir.
The Court: Is that the subpoena that was issued on the

7th directed to Dr. Ramsey requiring him to produce all
contracts, records and accounts including cancelled checks
relating to the maintenance and operation of the Fort
Smith, Arkansas Junior College since 1932, also minutes
of the Board of Trustees from 1932 to date; is that the
subpoena?

Mr. Woods: Yes sir.
The Court: Briefly, what are the grounds of your

motion?
Mr. Woods: The grounds of the motion—of course, the

first ground there, I don’t know whether the Court would
want to go into that now or not. It will be our contention
that the Junior College-—the Court will notice that the-

records asked for pertain to the Junior College only and
it is the contention of the defendants and it will be that
[fol. 3] the Junior College is not involved in this case
and at the proper time, we would like to present the au
thorities which we believe sustain that contention thor
oughly, But getting down to the practical side of it, the
practical objection to this is, they call for records, some
records that don’t even exist and they call for other records
that are not specifically designated, not designated with
sufficient clarity to enable us to know what it is they want.
And I want to add to what is recited in the motion, if the
Court please, that immediately after the filing of this suit,
the attorneys representing the plaintiffs came to Fort
Smith and had a meeting with us, with the members of
the Board, and with Dr. Ramsey and myself, and at that
time and in that meeting, we tendered to the attorneys all
of the records in the entire school system and they availed
themselves to some extent, I don’t know to what extent
of that tender and have returned to Fort Smith several
times since then, at which times the records have been
available to them and they are available now. They can
go through the entire records and take what they want.

The Court: What was the purpose?
Booker: If the Court please, in our original complaint,

if the Court please, we allege that the Junior College of
Fort Smith, Arkansas, is an institution which is supported
by public funds and it is under the jurisdiction of the
special school district of Fort Smith, Arkansas. Our purpose
[fol. 4] in asking for this subpoena to bring the records is
to tie in and to sustain that contention. In the Motion to
Quash, the fourth ground, we may be able to agree or
stipulate. It is alleged therein the Junior College is not
supported by a Board of Trustees, hence the minutes
specified in the subpoena are not and never have been,
in existence; all minutes of the records of directors of the
special school district of Fort Smith, Arkansas, have here
tofore been made available to counsel, etc. We admit that
the records of the Fort Smith special school district have
been made available and the relationships have been highly
cordial. However, if counsel will stipulate that the min
utes of the special school district of Fort Smith reflect the

activities, the supervision and the conduct of the Fort
Smith Junior College, I think we w ill be able to do with
out those records. If, as he sets out in his fourth conten
tion, that the minutes specified really consist of the min
utes of the special school district of Fort Smith, why,
then we have all that we desire.

The Court: I don’t assume—
Mr. Woods: Yes, sir, that is true, in so far as the dis

trict has any records at all.
The Court: I understand.
Mr. Woods: Pertaining to the Junior College, in minute

form.
The Court: See if I understand, Booker, see if I under

stand your statement there; that if it is true, that it could
[fol. 5] be stipulated that the minutes of the Board of
Directors of school district, such minutes reflect, truly
reflect the activities of that Board in reference to the
operation of the Junior College?

Booker: Yes sir, they do.
The Court: I don’t imagine you would have minutes

that wouldn’t be correct.
Mr. Woods: I don’t think so.
Booker: We are not questioning the correctness of it.

The only thing about it is, if in our questioning, it should
develop that there are other minutes which have not been
made available. Of course, if the stipulation and the
stipulation and the agreement entered into now, that the
only minutes available or ever any existed, are the min
utes of the Fort Smith special school district and they per
tain to the Junior College the same as they do to the
Senior High School.

The Court: I don’t know. Pertaining to the Junior
College in what way? In other words, the minutes
will speak for themselves.

Booker: Yes.
The Court: If you have the minutes.
Mr. Woods: We have the minutes from 1932 on down.
The Court: Let me make this suggestion to you in the

interest of economy of time. Suppose I enter this order,

[fol. 6] additional order, quashing the subpoena on this
condition that it is agreed by the parties that the minutes
heretofore furnished—that copy of the minutes heretofore
furnished the plaintiffs represent all of the minutes and
proceedings—represent a record of all the minutes and
proceedings had by the School Board in the operation of
the college.

Booker: That is correct.
The Court: Is that right?
Mr. Woods: Yes sir, that is right.
The Court: I w ill say this, Booker, if, in the trial of

the case it further develops and I want this as one of the
conditions, if it develops that the School Board is spend
ing public money, money derived by taxation in the sup
port of the Junior College, then I will take further action
on your subpoena, but for the time being, it will be
quashed with that understanding.

Booker: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Woods: If the Court please, of course the Court

understands that we are objecting to any testimony having
to do with the Junior College but I just assumed that the
Court would hear the evidence on that.

The Court: Well, that is a question that I can’t answer
at this time. That is the reason I was making the reserva
tion.

Mr. Woods: I didn’t want the record to show that we
[fol. 7] were conceding that that was an issue.

The Court: I understand it is the contention of the
defendants that the Junior College, that there is not any
money spent—derived from the operation of the Junior
College. Now, Booker, do you desire to make any state
ment before proceeding?

Booker: Yes, sir. My co-counsel w ill make the state
ment. We will make it brief.

The Court: I was going to make this suggestion. I
intend to give you all the time that is necessary to de
velop your case, but I am not going to indulge in matters
of trivial concern, because the issues here are well defined
and the law is well defined. I don’t think there is any

dispute about the law. It is simply the facts and the facts
that determine a lawsuit like this are certainly salient
facts, are very easily determined after the testimony is in
and I am going to suggest to both sides that you give the
Court at least credit for understanding the issues in the
case. If it develops during the trial, that I don’t under
stand them, then I will be glad to hear from you for en
lightenment, but I believe I do understand the issues in the
case, and I say that now without any desire to circum
scribe anybody.

Booker: Knowing that, if the Court please, we just as
soon waive opening statements, because I think the proper
[fol. 8] opening statement was made here when we were
here on a motion.

The Court: I just recently read the brief that was sub
mitted by Tate and yourself on the support of your motion
for summary judgment. I have recently read the amend
ments to the complaint and original complaint and the
answer, and I think the issues are well drawn, sharply
drawn. A trial of a case before a Court is not like a trial
of a case before a jury. A jury ought to have a state
ment of the issues, but in the trial of cases before the
Court, it more or less develops as you go along, and if
anything is obscure, the Court has a right and I make it a
practice of trying to find out right then and there, so I
will know what you are driving at. So, if you care to, you
can just proceed to call your first witness.

Booker: Thank you.

Calvin Sm ith , called as a witness on behalf of the plain
tiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. W ill you please talk loud enough so that these

gentlemen may hear .you? Will you tell the Court your
name and address?

A. Calvin Smith, I live at 222 North 33rd in the city.

Q. Is that in the City of Fort Smith?
A. Yes sir.
Q. In Sebastian County?

[fol. 9] A. Yes sir.
Q. In the State of Arkansas?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long have you lived there?
A. Five years at this address.
Q. Do you own or are you buying the property that

you live in there?
A. I own that.
Q. Did you pay taxes in 1948?
A. Yes sir.
Q. To Sebastian County?
A. Yes sir.
Q. State of Arkansas?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you pay your poll tax during 1948?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have a grandson who is between the ages—
The Court: Let me ask you this question just a minute.

Do you intend to prove by this witness—This witness is
not a teacher?

Tate: No, sir.
The Court: Do you intend to establish the relationship

of the various plaintiffs alleged in your complaint?
Tate:- Yes sir. We are doing that because they chal-

[fol. 10] lenge some of our—
Mr. Woods: Yes, Your Honor, we will stipulate—
The Court: The allegation of the complaint—why not

do this. It wouldn’t matter whether the relationship as
to all of them is exactly as alleged or not. There would
be a sufficient relationship here established by the testi
mony to authorize the maintenance of the suit, so in order
to save that, why don’t we just say that the relationship
of the plaintiffs as alleged in the complaint and amended
complaint and substituted complaint is admitted.

Mr. Woods: Except in so far as pertaining to the Junior
College. We do not admit that they are qualified to ap
pear here on that issue.

The Court: I know. That will be all right.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Smith you may be excused.
The Court: Let me make this notation just a minute.

Now, let’s see, it is stipulated—go ahead and dictate to the
reporter what it is.

Tate: It is agreed that the plaintiffs in this case are
competent to maintain this cause of action except as to
the Fort Smith Junior College. Is that correct, Mr. Woods?

The Court: Yes, that is correct.

[fol. 11] Floyd Evans, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Evans, will you tell the Court your name and

address?
A. Floyd Evans, 4305 Armour Street, Fort Smith.
Q. What is your business, Mr. Evans?
A. I am a porter at the Goldman Hotel.
Q. Do you have a part-time vocation that you engage

in as a sort of hobby?
A. I do.
Q. What is that?
A. Photography.
Q. How long have you been engaged in doing photog

raphy of that sort?
A. A number of years—say ten or twelve years; I can’t

give the exact date.
Q. Did you have occasion to take some photographs

for these plaintiffs on February 26, 1949?
A. I did.

Q. I show you plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 1. Did you take
that photograph?

A. I did.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. Senior High School.

[fol. 12] The Court: Let me ask you a question. Have
you seen these exhibits?

Mr. Shaw: No sir.
The Court: Wait just a minute; look at them right now.

We will save a lot of time. We might introduce them by
agreement. There is no use to chew around on a cherry
when you can swallow it at one clip and go ahead. (Here
attorneys for defendants look at photographs.)

Mr. Woods: If the Court please, we have no objection
to the introduction of the exhibits as numbered, as ex
hibited to us with the exception of both the interior and
exterior views of Lincoln High, which do not reflect the
present situation there. These pictures were taken last
Spring, were they?

Tate: Last February.
Mr. Woods: They were taken in February and they do

not reflect the present situation either from an exterior
or interior standpoint and that applies particularly to
Exhibits 5 and 65.

The Court: Well, you don’t object to them as reflecting
the conditions?

Mr. Woods: As of that date.
The Court: At the time they were taken?
Mr. Woods: That is right.
The Court: That is all the photograph could establish,

[fol. 13] so let it be admitted that Exhibits 1 to 68—is that
right?

Tate: That is correct.
The Court: 1 to 68 inclusive are admitted as photo

graphs taken by the witness of the various buildings and
rooms and facilities described on each exhibit.

Tate: On each exhibit, that is right.
The Court: As of the date of taking, February 26, 1949.
Tate: Yes sir.

WITNESS EXCUSED

PLAINTIFF ’S EXHIBITS 1 to 68, INCLUSIVE INTRO
DUCED IN EVIDENCE.

Reporter’s Note: Plaintiffs’ Exhibits 1 to 68, inclusive,
being large photographs, not material for copying or being
attached to transcript, the same are filed with the District
Clerk under separate cover.

ffol. 14] Donald Jones, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate: If the Court please, Mr. Jones filed an affidavit

in support of our motion for summary judgment. If that
affidavit, which is a part of the record, may be now joined
in the record as part of this trial, it w ill not be necessary
to take any further testimony from Mr. Jones.

Mr. Woods: Give us a chance to look at that.
(Here the witness passes paper to Mr. Woods.)
The Court: What is this witness’ name?
Tate: Donald Jones.
Mr. Woods: Your Honor, we can’t agree to let this go

in as the witness’ testimony.
The Court: Go ahead.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Jones, will you tell the Court your name?
A. My name is Donald Jones.
Q. Your address?
A. Dallas, Texas, 1719 Caddo Street.
Q. What is your business, Mr. Jones?
A. I am. secretary for the southwest region of the Na

tional Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

Q. Talk just a little louder. Before you went into that
[fol. 15] occupation, what was your business, Mr. Jones,
as to newspapers?

A. I was editor of a weekly newspaper in New Orleans,
Louisiana, my home city. I was director of public relations
for a year at Dillard University in New Orleans.

Q. And since you gave up the editorship of your paper,
have you written for newspapers?

A. I have written for newspapers and have had a few
articles and short stories published in various magazines.

Q. All right, sir. Now, Mr. Jones, did you have an oc
casion to go on an inspection of the public schools here in
Fort Smith on or about February 26, 1949?

A. I did, sir.
Q. W ill you tell the Court who accompanied you on

that inspection?
A. On that tour with me were yourself, Mr. Tate, Mr.

Evans, a photographer and Mr. Ramsey, the superintendent
of the School Board here in Fort Smith.

Q. And Mr. Booker, was he here?
A. And Mr. Booker was also present.
Q. Now, Mr. Jones, will you tell the Court what you

saw? Did you visit the Senior High School for white chil
dren at Fort Smith?

A. I did.
Q. Will you tell the Court what you saw by way of

equipment for teaching purposes, generally, including
teaching aid, visual devices, maps, charts, graphs and that
sort of thing?
[fol. 16] A. Well, at the Senior High School for white
children here in Fort Smith, I saw first of all a building of
two-story construction, a very attractive building, situated
on landscaped grounds. I saw’ in that building well
equipped, attractive classrooms. I saw in the halls of the
building built-in lockers for containing the clothes of the
children. I saw classrooms in which were taught commer
cial courses containing perhaps forty or sixty typewriters.
I saw other rooms for the teaching of other courses in
which appeared graphs and charts and so forth. I saw a
machine shop which contained any number of machines of a

description beyond my science. I know little about ma
chines. I saw a printing shop which contained a linotype
machine, at least one of them, a printing press suitable for
printing tabloid size newspapers; lay-out tables, make-up
tables, and such as go into the well equipped printing shop.
I saw in that building also a gymnasium with hardwood
floors and with bleacher [accomodations] for from 500 to
750 people perhaps, and with dressing rooms and showers
attached to that auditorium. Do I need to go into greater
detail?

Q. Yes, did you see a stadium in connection with this
school?

A. Yes, I did. I saw a stadium in connection with this
school just adjacent to it and the space underneath the
stand of the stadium, which generally is unused, was in
this case used for a number of classrooms which I was in
formed were the classrooms of the Junior College of the
[fol. 17] Fort Smith school system.

Mr. Woods: The Court understands that all this testi
mony pertaining to the Junior College is objected to and
it w ill not be necessary for us to repeat.

The Court: No, I understand.
Tate: The basis of your objection is, Mr. Woods, is that

the Junior College is not a part of the public school system,
is that correct?

Mr. Woods: That is just part of it.
Q. Did you see a band room, Mr. Jones?
A. Yes, in these rooms under the stand there was a

band room.
Q. And that was the band room of the Fort Smith

Senior High School for white children?
A. So I was informed, sir.
Q. Of the shops that you visited, did you see a wood

work shop? You mentioned the metal shop. Did you see
a wood work shop?

A. Yes sir, I saw a wood work shop. On sort of a mez
zanine floor there was a quantity of wood stored for use
in the wood shop.

Q. Did you see a cafeteria in that building?

A. I saw a very commodious cafeteria, which at the
time I saw it, was locked and I had to observe it through
the glass door, but it seemed to be a very fine cafeteria in
deed.

Q. Did you see a faculty lounge for white teachers in
that building?
[fol. 18] A. Yes, I saw a faculty lounge consisting I be
lieve, of two rooms. The first set-up generally was a sort
of sitting room and the second as a type of bedroom.

Q. Did you see an auditorium in that building, Mr.
Jones?

A. I saw an auditorium in that building also.
Q. And when you visited the gym, Mr. Jones, was there

anything unique about that room with respect to the floors?
A. The floors seemed to have been constructed of

blocks placed on end instead of laterally as is usually the
case. It seemed that the floor of the building had blocks
of wood cut off evenly, the grain of which came up and
down instead of laterally as is usually the case.

Q. Now, as to the auditorium, was there a stage to that
auditorium?

A. There was a stage.
Q. What sort of seating facilities did they have?
A. There was permanent seating facilities throughout

the auditorium.
Q. Did you see a screen for movies and projectile ac

tivities?
A. As I recall, I did sir.
Q. On that same day, Mr. Jones, did you visit the Jun

ior High School for white children in Fort Smith, Arkan
sas?

A. I did.
Q. Would you tell us something of what you found

there?
A. I found a building, two-story, as I recall, a two-story

building, which covered approximately one city block and
[fol. 19] which consisted of approximately forty class
rooms. I remember that there was a gym in this building
equipped with wrestling mats and so forth, basketball

courts, goals at the end of the gym. I saw a swimming pool
in that building and adjacent to the swimming pool, dress
ing rooms with stalls for a person to dress in and with hair
dryers to dry the hair of the young ladies who swam in
the swimming pool. I saw a really fine auditorium that
seated perhaps 1500 people, as I judged it, with a fine stage
and so forth. I saw a room which I was informed was used
for the purpose of debating, which in effect was a sort of
auditorium, which could have seated several hundred stu
dents. I saw a library of a good sort there, as far as I
could judge. I saw a study hall which could [accomodate]
several hundred students and science rooms, commercial
rooms, a large room devoted to commercial art, complete
with drawing boards, and so forth.

Q. A ll right, sir. Now, on that same date, Mr. Jones,
did you have occasion to visit the Lincoln High School for
Negroes in Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. I did, sir.
Q. W ill you tell the Court something of what you saw

there?
A. The first thing that impressed me with Lincoln High

School was the antiquity of the building. It seemed to be
a building constructed quite some while ago. The ground
surrounding that building was ungraded. There was no
shrubbery. The school rooms in the building were for the
[fol. 20] most part dingy and ill-equipped. I noticed par
ticularly that the Administration office of the Lincoln High
School consisted of a large room in a corner of which was;
separated by a low partition, was the office of the school
principal, and in another corner of which were desks and
chairs, which gave evidence that that part of the room was
being used for classroom purposes. I saw an auditorium
which—well, it was a gym which I understood was being
used as a gym and as an auditorium and as a study room.
Chairs were at the time that I saw it, set up in the study
room fashion and also as a classroom, I understand, on dif
ferent occasions.

Q. Now, while you were at the Lincoln High School,
Mr. Jones, did you see any public address devices in that
building whereby the principal could address; his. classes,
say, from his office?

A. No sir, I saw no such devices.
Q. Did you see any such devices as that at the Junior

High School?
A. I saw such public address systems in both the Junior

High School and the Senior High School for white chil
dren.

Q. Now, did you see any metal lockers in the halls of
that building as you saw in the Senior High School for
white children and the Junior High School for white chil
dren?

A. In the building of the Lincoln High School there
were no metal lockers. There were hooks on the halls of
the building for [accomodation] of the clothes of the chil
dren and faculty, I presume and there was a small cloak
[fol. 21] room on the first floor lined with hooks similar to
the ones in the hall.

Q. Did you see any room for teaching typewriting?
A. I saw no room for teaching typewriting in the Lin

coln High School.
Q. Did you see a cafeteria in connection therewith?
A. I saw no cafeteria in the Lincoln High School.
Q. Did you see a lounge for the use and enjoyment of

Negro teachers?
A. I saw no lounge in the Lincoln High School.
Q. Did you see a band room in connection with the Lin

coln High School?
A. I saw no band room in connection with the Lincoln

High School.
Q. As to the chairs in the auditorium of the Lincoln

High School, were they stationary chairs as you saw in the
schools for white children or were they movable chairs?

A. They were movable chairs of the desks on the arm
of the chair. The right arm rest extended around in front
of the occupant of the chair to serve as a desk, and most of
these chairs were in a most dilapidated condition.

Q. By dilapidated condition, what did you mean par
ticularly? Were the arms broken?

A. Some of the arms were broken and some of the backs
were broken.

Q. Were any of the seats of the chairs broken?
[fol. 22] A. Yes, a number of the seats of the chairs
were broken,

Q. Did you go to the balcony of the auditorium at the
Lincoln High School?

A. I did.
Q. What did yau find there?
A. I found that the balcony, which was a very small

space for such a purpose, being used principally as a sort
of storage space. Mats of different descriptions, I pre
sume mats for tumbling and so forth were there at the
time. A t the time I visited there, there was a number
of waste paper baskets around and a few benches and so
forth.

Q. Would you say that that balcony was in such an
orderly condition that it might have been used by guests
who came there to witness games or other cultural activ
ities?

A. Certainly not at the time I saw it.
Q. Did you see any swimming pool in connection with

the Lincoln High School for Negroes?
A. There was no swimming pool on those grounds.
Q. Did you see any dressing room for girls with

benches and booths and in which to shower and dress
themselves?

A. No, the only [accomodations] of the kind you de
scribed here were four showers down in the boiler room
of the Lincoln High School. These showers, however,
were there in a bare condition. There were no dressing
rooms around. There were no benches on which the users
of these showers could sit and no other equipment, other
than the showers.
[fol. 23] Q. Would you describe, give the Court your
conception of the physical condition of that basement as
attractive or unattractive?

A. It was most unattractive, sir.
Q. How was the condition of the paint there? Did it

show any signs of having been recently painted?
A. It did not.

Q. A ll right, sir. Now, you testified that you saw
dryers, hair dryers for the young ladies in the Junior High
School for whites. Did you see any such dryers at the
Neg^o High School for Negro children?

A. I saw no such dryers.
Q. Now, you said you saw some showers in the base

ment, Mr. Jones. Did you see separate showers for boys
and girls, were there two sets of showers or was there
only one set of showers?

A. There was only one set of showers. I saw no sep
aration between any of the showers I saw.

Tate: A ll right. Pass the witness.

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. I believe you stated that your business was that

of an editor?
A. At one time, yes sir.
Q. You have never been an educator, have you?
A. I have not.
Q. You don’t purport to know anything about the sci

ence of education and running a school system, do
[fol. 24] you?

A. Nothing whatsoever, sir.
Q. Now, beginning with the Senior High School—when

we speak of the Senior High School, we speak of the white
Senior High School, of course. Did you understand that
the enrollment there was around 1200 or so?

A. As I recall Mr. Ramsey informed me that it was
about that on the date we visited it.

Q. And you understood that that building houses more
than one-half of the total number of white high children
in the district, did you not?

A. I had no such information.
Q. Well, you understood that the white children are

[accomodated] in two high schools, the Senior and
Junior High Schools?

A. That is right, sir.

Q. And that the enrollment in the Senior High School
was approximately 1200, somewhere around there?

A. That is right.
Q. And of the Junior High School approximately 1500

or 1600, you knew that?
A. That is right.
Q. You understood that?
A. That is right.
Q. Did you also understand that the Senior High School

was the latest building constructed in the school system
here?
[fol. 25] A. I had no such information.

Q. You had no information of that kind?
A. No sir.
Q. Now, did you visit any grade schools, any of the

grade school buildings?
A. No sir, with the exception of Howard at that time.

I just went through that.
Q. The old Howard?
A. The old Howard.
Q. You didn’t visit any of the white grade schools?
A. No sir.
Q. You characterize Lincoln High by the term an

tiquity. I will ask you if you had occasion to see either
the inside or outside of Bell Grove grade school for
whites?

A. No sir.
Q. Did you see that?
A. I did not.
The Court: Let me ask you a question right there.

Does the plaintiff intend to direct their attack also at the
intermediate schools?

Tate: No sir. Primarily interested in high schools and
junior college.

The Court: In other words, there will be no contention
as I understand of discrimination in facilities or otherwise
in the grade schools?
[fol. 26] Tate: That is right.

The Court: A ll right then.
Mr. Woods: In explanation of my question though, it

is our position that it is the overall picture that is before
the Court.

The Court: I understand. I understand your conten
tion. Your position is that it is the overall educational
system that must be considered.

Mr. Woods: Yes sir.
The Court: Let’s show that to a limited degree, but I

don’t want you to go into the whole.
Mr. Woods: It is not necessary for me to cross exam

ine this witness on the age of some of the white grade
schools because that will be shown—

The Court: He is a resident of Dallas, Texas. What
he would know about the age of them would be purely
hearsay.

Mr. Woods: He has stated he didn’t visit any of the
white grade schools anyway.

Mr. Woods:
Q. Now, were you informed at the time you made this

inspection that you have described, were you informed
as to the age of the Junior High School buildings?

A. I was not sir.
Q. For whites?

[fol. 27] A. I was not.
Q. You didn’t know at that time and you don’t know yet

that it is practically as old as Lincoln High?
A. I might have been told but I don’t recall having been

told.
Q. How would you classify the Junior High School for

whites from the standpoint of antiquity? Did you notice
that that was a very old building that has been patched
from time to time in more recent years?

A. I noticed from its architecture particularly that it
was not a building of modern design but I did notice that
it was very well taken care of.

Q. What you mean by taken care of? You mean the
classrooms from the standpoint of everyday litter caused
by the activities of the students? Is that what you mean?

A. No sir, I mean that there were no cracks in the walls.
The building was in a state of general good repair.

Q. A ll right. Now, you refer to Lincoln High; the
toilets, showers and facilities of that kind. Did you visit
the toilet facilities of the Junior High School? Did you see
that?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you tell the Court that you found a more sanitary

condition and a more modern condition in the Junior High
School for whites than you did in the Lincoln School?

A. Well, certainly sir, I found in the Junior High School
for white children no such conditions as I found, for in-
[fol. 28] stance, in the toilet for Negro girls in Lincoln
High School, one of which appeared to be out of repair and
had thrown over it a bench of some sort—-broken bench.
I found no such condition as that in the Junior High for
whites.

Q. Now, from the standpoint of light and heat; do you
tell the Court that the Junior High was a safer building for
1600 children than Lincoln High is for its 250 or 300 stu
dents?

A. Well, I don’t know sir, except at the Junior High has
wide halls and good means of ingress or egress. I did no
tice that the Lincoln High School, for instance, had a stair
leading up from the basement that was approximately
three feet wide.

Q. What school is that?
A. Lincoln High School, which would have been, in my

opinion, a more hazardous sort of thing as a means of egress
in case of a fire.

Q. Do you know what purpose that narrow stairway
serves?

A. I imagine it has the purpose of admitting children
from one floor to the other.

Q. As a matter fact, don’t that just lead to a shower
room?

A. This room which I have reference to is in the front
part of the building, leading from the basement to the first
floor.

Q. Was that the only entrance and outlet to the base
ment that you saw, that narrow stairway?

A. No sir, there was another. There was one other
from the hall which ran diagonally back from this stair,
[fob 29] The other stair, I think you refer to, is the one
which leads down to the boiler room and on which I saw
the day that I visited it, a ladder and some other equipment
on this narrow stair going down into the basement.

Q. Did you visit Fort Smith prior to the filing of this
lawsuit?

A. Yes sir. The first trip that I made to Fort Smith I
think was in 1943.

Q. Well, were you here shortly before this suit was
filed, say thirty or forty days, were you here with the
group that was here then?

A. That is right, sir.
Q. Did you talk to the member of the School Board at

that time?
A. I talked to Mr. Ramsey.
Q. With Mr. Ramsey?
A. Just prior to the filing of the suit.
Q. You were apprised before the suit was filed, of the

plan of the Board to carry through a building program for
both white and colored schools that is now in process of
construction and carrying out. You were informed of that,
weren’t you?

A. I was informed of it, sir, yes.
Q. You knew these improvements were to be made?
A. I knew they were being promised; yes sir.
Q. And have those promises been carried out?
A. Since the filing of this suit, yes sir.

[fol. 30] Q. Well, you filed the suit within less than a
month after you were told about the plans, didn’t you?

A. About the promises, yes sir.
Q. You wouldn’t expect Lincoln High to be rebuilt and

Howard to be rebuilt in thirty days, would you?
A. Hardly, sir. The Lincoln High had not been rebuilt

during all the time, for instance, when Senior High was re
built.

Q. Do you know that to be a fact? Don’t you know that
Lincoln High was rebuilt and remodeled and reconditioned
throughout the very year in which the Senior High for
whites was built?

A. You asked a question which I can’t answer.
Q. You didn’t know that?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you been through the new Howard School?
A. No, I have not.
Q. Have you visited the place at all since you have

been to town?
A. I saw it from the outside. I have not visited the in

side of it at all, sir.
Q. You have seen the outside?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Well, how does that look from the standpoint of

antiquity ?
A. It seems to be a very beautiful, modern building,

sir.
Q. And you didn’t visit the inside?
A. No sir.
Q. The classrooms and observe the heating, the lighting,

the windows and the ventilation?
[fob 31] A. No sir.

Q. The exposure?
A. No sir, I only came to Fort Smith last night, sir.
Q. The equipment, you haven’t observed that?
A. No sir.
Q. And you haven’t visited the campus of Lincoln High

to see whether all of the things are there now that were
there last February that you have described?

A. I passed the campus and I saw a remodeled building
and another building which had been built, but I have not
been in those buildings, sir.

Q. Now, what you have told the Court here about what
you saw at Lincoln High, was the situation as you saw it
last February?

A. That is right.

Q. At a time when you knew or had been advised of
this remodeling and building program, but which at that
time had not been started or at least had not made much
headway?

A. What I have testified here was the result of my ob
servation on the visit of February 26th.

Q. And anything you have told the Court as to the in
adequacy or the unfavorable comparison between Lincoln
High, for instance, and Senior High, would relate back to
February, 1949 and would not be as of today?

A. I could not testify as of today, sir.
[fol. 32] Q. Now, you mentioned a public address system.
Of course, you have stated that you were not an educator
and you don’t purport to have any particular knowledge in
the field of education, but I am going to ask you this. Did
you ever see a school with an enrollment of 250 students
that had a public address system?

A. I would not care to comment on that, Mr. Woods, be
cause you have correctly classified me as a person who
knows very little about the art of teaching.

Q. You don’t tell the Court that Lincoln High should
have a public address system with the enrollment that it
has. You just stated that it didn’t have one?

A. That is right, sir. That is all I stated.
Q. And the same thing applies to the auditorium and

the other facilities that you have described down there?
A. I have simply said what I saw, that is all.
Q. What you saw?
A. That is right.
Q. Were you advised that the public address system at

both the Senior and Junior white high schools were bought
and paid for and installed by the students themselves and
not paid for out of tax money?

A. I have no knowledge as to how they arrived in the
building.

Q. You have no knowledge of the source of that?
A. That is right.

[fol. 33] Mr. Woods: I believe that is all.
The Court: Any further questions? ,

Tate: No further questions.
Witness excused.

Mose W illiam s , called as a witness on behalf of the plain
tiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Williams, will you tell the Court your name?
A. Mose Williams.
Q. Where do you live?
A. 1733 North 8th Street.
Q. W ill you talk loud enough so that these gentlemen

may hear you? What is your business or what sort of work
do you do?

A. Janitor.
Q. Where do you work as janitor?
A. Just all over the building.
Q. I mean what organization do you work for? Do you

work for the public school system of Fort Smith, Arkan
sas?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And what school are you assigned to?
A. Lincoln High.
Q. How long have you been there, sir?
A. Seven years.
Q. During the time you have been employed there, has

there ever been an occasion when the plaster in the class-
[fol. 34] rooms of one of some of the classrooms fell during
the day?

A. Yes sir.
Q. When did that happen? Just approximately? Was

that in 1936 or 1937?
A. It was in ’40 something.
Q. I am sorry, 1947 or 1948?
A . Y e s s ir .

Q. A ll right, sir. To your knowledge, has the basement
of the building there ever been flooded by water?

A. Yes sir.
Q. How many times to your knowledge?
A. Well, ever since I have been there except—well,

ever since 1943.
Q. Now, when that water came into the building, did

it come up around the boiler ?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have the feeling that that boiler was harmed

or damaged by that water being around it?
A. Yes sir, I think so.
Q. Speak a little louder, please sir.
Mr. Daily: I don’t think his feeling in the matter has

anything to do with it.
The Court: No, if he knows about it. Go ahead and de

scribe it. I can tell pretty well whether it damaged it or
[fol. 35] not.

Q. What is the condition of the roof of that building?
A. Well, it leaks.
Q. It leaks?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When you say it leaks, in how many different places

does it leak, to your knowledge?
A. In four.
Q. In four different places?
A. Yes sir.
Q. I see, sir. Now, when you keep your floors, do you

put oil on your floors from time to time?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And what sort of oil do you use?
A. Well, they call it gym floor outfit.
Q. Would that oil burn if it was set afire?
A. Yes sir, I believe it would.
Q. Can you tell me how many broken window panes

there are in that building at this time?
A. Well, there ain’t but one now. They have put them

in lately.

Q. Would it make any difference to you if I tell you
that I counted twenty-six there yesterday in the back of
the building?

A. No, it wouldn’t make any difference to me. In the
back of the building?

Q. Yes sir. Do you recall that there are some broken
there?
[fob 36] A. Down in that basement. They’ve got paper
over them.

Q. Now, as of today, what is the condition of the prin
cipal’s office? Are there any obstructions in there that
would keep it from being used for its normal purposes?
Are there some devices in there holding up the floor?

A. Holding up the floor?
Q. Yes sir, in the principal’s office?
A. No sir, I don’t think it is.
Q. With respect to what used to be the domestic sci

ence building which I think is immediately over the prin
cipal’s office, is that room fit for occupancy to date?

A. No sir.
Q. Are the floors in that room—-are they such that a

person could walk in there safely to date?
A. No sir.
Q. Are there any classes being conducted in that room?
A. No, sir.
Q. With respect to the typing room across the hall on

the second floor, there are some typewriters in that room
and it is being used I suppose for teaching typewriting.
What else is there in that room?

Q. Well, a lot of science stuff in there that they ain’t
moved out yet.

Q. Is it being used for the teaching of science?
A. It ain’t now.
Q. It isn’t now?

[fol. 37] A. No sir.
Q. A ll right sir. There is a room in the basement at

the front of the building on the right hand side as you
go in the door; it has some long tables in there. How
many lights are in that room?

A. Four.
Q. What sort of lights are they? Are they [fluro-

scent] lights or ordinary globe lights?
A. Globe lights.
Q. Is that room as bright as this room is now when

those lights are on?
A. No sir, not hardly.
Q. It isn’t that bright?
A. No sir.
Q. And that is where the children meet and study,

is that correct?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now there is a building being constructed on the

campus which I understand is to be a shop. Has that
building completed?

A. No sir.
Q. Does it have any lights in it?
A. The one that they are working on now?
Q. Yes, the shop.
A. No sir.
Q. Does it have any doors on it?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 38] Q. I mean such doors that you could close? I
mean are they swinging doors?

A. Yes.
Q. Can every entrance of that building be locked to

day?
A. Yes sir.
Q. There are several rooms in that building. Are any

of those rooms equipped for use today?
A. No sir.
Q. Is there any furniture in those rooms at all?
A. No sir.
Q. With respect to the Howard elementary school,

are you familiar with that school, sir?
A. No sir, not much.
Q. You are not familiar with that school. Now, Mr.

Williams, with respect to the gymnasium in the Lincoln

High School, do you know the size of that gymnasium
floor?

A. No sir.
Q. There is a fountain in the corner of that gym

nasium which is a water fountain and underneath it there
is a wash basin, is that correct, sir?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And what is that wash basin used for?
A. To catch that surplus water.
Q. Do you ever wash your mops in that fountain?
A. No sir.

[fol. 39] Q. You do not?
A. No sir.
Q. Mr. Williams, I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 46.

That is the toilet in the Senior High School for white
children. Do you have any such toilets as that in your
building ?

A. No sir.
Q. No such toilets as that? I show you Plaintiff’s Ex

hibit No. 46. Those are the toilets for girls at Lincoln
High School. Is that a true representation of those toilets?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Speak a little louder.
A. Yes sir.
Q. I show you here Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 44, which

is the girls’ toilet at the Junior High for white children.
That is a glass screen and these are divisions of unbreak
able glass and these are marble fronts. Do you have any
such toilets as that in your building for girls?

A. No sir.
Q. I show you this set of toilets. They are marble

floor with marble divisions between each toilet unit. Do
you have any such—that is the girls’ toilet in the Senior
High School. Do you have any such toilets in your build
ing as that for girls?

A. No sir.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 39. Is that a

true representation of the condition of a corner of the
[fol. 40] auditorium at the Lincoln High School?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And you stored your mops and brooms there per

manently each day?
A. Yes sir.
Q. They are kept there every day?
A. Yes sir.
Q. That is inside the auditorium of the Lincoln High

School, isn’t it?
A. Yes sir,
Q. I show you this picture. That is Plaintiff’s Exhibit

No. 38, which is the stairway from the auditorium to the
basement. Do you recall when those two ladders and
that table were stored there?

A. Yes sir.
Q. That is a true representation of the condition at

that time, isn’t it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 37. This is a

room on the side of the balcony at the Lincoln High
School, is that correct, sir?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Are those materials still in there today?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 41] Q. They are in there today?
A. Yes sir.
Q. I show you plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 36, which are the

seats in the auditorium of the Lincoln High School for Ne
groes. Is that a true representation of the condition of those
seats today, sir?

A. Yes sir.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 35, which is the

balcony of the high school for Negroes, the Lincoln High
School. Is that a true representation of that balcony today,
sir?

A. Yes sir.
Q. That is a true representation of that as of today?
A . Y e s s ir .

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 28. That is the
faculty lounge at the Senior High School for white children
in Fort Smith. Do you have any such equal facilities for
the use and enjoyment of Negro teachers at the Lincoln
High School for Negroes?

A. No sir.
Tate: That is all. Pass the witness.

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mose, what are your duties as janitor down at the

Lincoln High?
A. Try to keep it clean.
Q. What?

[fol. 42] A. Try to keep it clean.
Q. Try to keep it clean?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You have just been shown a photograph which was

described to you as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 35, which shows
the balcony of the auditorium and gymnasium. You recog
nized that. You said that represented the appearance at
the time the picture was made?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Whose business is it to keep that balcony clean and

in shape and clear? Is that your job?
A. Yes sir.
Q. A ll right. Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 38; that seems to

be a photograph of the fountain and wash basin in the
corner of the auditorium of Lincoln High, with brooms and
mops and things. Isn’t it your job to keep that clean?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And clear of rubbish and everything isn’t that right?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now Exhibit 38 that counsel just showed you, that

is the stairway from the auditorium to the boys’ shower
with a ladder lying there. Who put that ladder there? Did
you? You did, didn’t you?

A. Yes sir.
Tate: If the Court please, we object to that line of

[fol. 43] questioning. Mr. Williams is not on trial here.

The Court: I know, but he is the janitor out there.
Tate: He works under the supervision of the principal.
The Court: I understand. Objection overruled.
Q. Do you know how many teachers there are in Lin

coln High?
A. No sir, not exactly I don’t. Ten or eleven or twelve.
Q. Ten or eleven or twelve? Somewhere along there?
A. Something like eight or nine.
Q. You don’t know how many there are this year?
A. No sir, not exactly.
Q. Do you know how many there are at the Junior High

School for whites and Senior High for whites?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you ever been in the Senior High School?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Have you noticed in how many places the Senior

High School leaks, the roof leaks or do you know about
that?

A. I know one place it leaks.
Q. You know one place it leaks?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You don’t know the other places that that building

leaks?
[fol. 44] A. No sir.

Q. You didn’t know that the Board had worked for
years to remedy that situation?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And just like they worked to remedy the situation

at the Lincoln High?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Is that right?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now, Mose, you have testified as to certain condi

tions now at Lincoln High, rooms that are not equipped
and not in use and so on. Isn’t it a fact that work is under
way to remodeling those rooms that you spoke about, all
of those rooms that are not equipped now. Isn’t that right?

A . Y e s s ir .

Q, They are all being worked on—worked over?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And the roof; did you understand that a part of the

improvements program was a new roof for Lincoln High?
Did you understand that?

A. No sir.
Q. A brand new roof over the building; you didn’t

know that?
A. No sir.
Q. You spoke of the toilets at Lincoln High. Isn’t it a

fact that new toilets in an entirely different place are now
under construction at Lincoln High? Is that Lincoln High?
[fol. 45] Is that right?

A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. You don’t know about that?
A. No sir.
Q. What you have told the Court about all of these

things were independent entirely of the new work that is
going on down there now, is that right?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Mose, you spoke of water coming up in the basement

of the Lincoln High School. That hasn’t happened in the
last three or four years, has it?

A. No sir.
Q. That hasn’t happened since the sea wall was built,

has it?
A. No sir.
Q. Well, you understand that one of the purposes of the

sea wall was to protect such properties as Lincoln High
and other properties located in that particular section?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Is that right?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And there hasn’t been any overflow since the sea

wall was built?
A. No sir.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

[fol. 46] Re-Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Williams, how did it happen that you are here

in Court today?
A. Well, I was [subpoened].
Q. You was [subpoened] to come?
A. Yes sir.
Tate: I think that is all.

Re-Cross Examination.
Mr. Wood:
Q. I forgot to ask you about those windows that were

out in the back. After having been reminded by counsel,
you stated that there were a number of window lights out
in the back?

A. Yes sir.
Q. That is where the new shower rooms and the new

toilets are under construction right now, isn’t it? Isn’t that
right?

A. Some of them is.

Re-Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Williams, when you are at school, from whom

do you take your directions?
A. The principal.
Q. And every bit of the work that you do is under his

supervision, is that correct?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 47] Q. And if you leave a ladder on the stair way, he
knows it is there, doesn’t he?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And if you leave your mops in the corner of the

auditorium, he knows they are there, doesn’t he?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And when you find irregularities in the school, such

as broken toilets, what do you do?
A. I report to him.
Witness excused.

Shirley Edwards, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.

Tate:
Q. Please tell the Court your name.
A. Shirley Edwards.
Q. Do you live in Fort Smith, Arkansas?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you attend the public schools here?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you between the ages of 6 and 21 years?
A. I am.
Q. What school do you attend?
A. Lincoln High.
Q. And what grade are you in?

[fol. 48] A. Eleventh.
Q. Now, do you now or have you in the past, taken a

course in physical education?
A. I have.
Q. And who taught that course?
A. Mr. Hilliard.
Q. Mr. Hilliard, that is a man?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What sort of activity did you participate in in that

course?
A. We had volley ball, soft ball, setting up exercises.
Q. A ll of that was taught by Mr. Hilliard?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When you were through with your day’s activity,

did you take showers?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And where did you take your shower?
A. In the boiler room.
Q. In the boiler room?
A . Y e s s ir .

Q. How large a space is it down there?
A. Well, it isn’t very large.
Q. How many showers are there down there?
A. Four.
Q. Are those showers used exclusively by girls at all

times?
A. No.

[fol. 49] Q. How are they used otherwise?
A. The boys also use them.
Q. Are there any benches down there for you to sit on?
A. No.
Q. How many girls have occasion to take showers down

there at the same time after your activities?
A. Well, there was a minimum of thirty.
Q. A minimum of thirty?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now, when you played volley ball and hand ball,

where did you play; in the gym or out on the grounds?
A. In the gymnasium.
Q. When you played hand ball you played out on the

field, didn’t you?
A. Yes sir.
Q, This I show you is Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 6. Is that

the stadium and athletic field at the Senior High School
for white children?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have any such facilities as that at your

school?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have any athletic field there at all?
A. No.
Q. None at all? I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 7

which is the swimming pool at the Junior High School. Do
you have any such swimming pool as that in your school?
[fol. 50] A. No sir.

Q. Do you have any swimming pool at all there?
A . N o .

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 8, which is the
girls’ shower room at the Junior High School. Do you
have any such facilities for taking showers as that at your
school?

A. No sir.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 9 which is the hair

drying section in the shower at the Junior High School for
white children. Do you have any such devices as that for
your comfort and enjoyment?

A. No sir.
Q. Not at the Lincoln High School?
A. No.
Q. I show you the dressing room, Plaintiff’s Exhibit

No. 10, at the Junior High School, which has stalls for
dressing and benches and a looking glass and a broad,
spacious floor. Do you have any such facilities for use by
Negro girls at the Lincoln High School for Negroes?

A. No sir.
Q. I show you a section of the gymnasium, Plaintiff’s

Exhibit No. 11, the gym at the Senior High School for white
children in Fort Smith. Do you have any such gym fa
cilities as that at your school?
[fol. 51] A. No sir.

Q. Speak a little louder, please.
A. No.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 14, which is the

music room at the Junior High School for white children.
Do you have any such facilities for the teaching of music
at your school?

A. No.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 15, which is the

cafeteria at Senior High School for white children in Fort
Smith. Do you have any such similar or equal cafeteria
at the Lincoln High School for Negroes?

A. No.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 24, which is the

business machines section at the Senior High School for
white children in Fort Smith. On this picture I see a
comptometer, a check writer, a mimeograph machine and

bookkeeping machine and adding machine and other de
vices. Do you have any such equipment as that at the
Lincoln High School for Negroes?

A. No sir.
Q. No such equipment as that?
A. No.
Q. I show you the auditorium and stage of the main

auditorium at the Junior High School for white children
at Fort Smith. I see a stage with a table on the stage,
with curtains and drapes, stationary chairs and fluorescent
[fol. 52] lights. Do you have any such similar or equal
facilities as this at the Lincoln High School for Negroes?

A. No.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 30, which is the

balcony of the Lincoln High School for Negroes. Is that a
true representation of that balcony today?

A. It is.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 35, which is the

balcony of the Lincoln High School for Negroes. Is that
a true representation of that balcony today?

A. It is.
Q. I show you the chairs, Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 36, the

chairs in the auditorium of the Lincoln High School for
Negroes. Is that a true representation of the chairs in that
room today? There is a chair with a back broken, a chair
with an arm broken, two or three chairs with the seats
split or broken. Is that a true representation of the con
dition of those chairs today?

A. It is.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 39, which is a

corner of the auditorium at the Lincoln High School show
ing drinking fountains fastened to a wash basin, a broken
chair, three brooms, a waste basket and a mop bucket. Is
that a true representation of that corner today in the
Lincoln High School?
[fol. 53] A. It is.

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 45 which is the
girls’ toilet at the Lincoln High School for Negroes in
Fort Smith. Is that a true and accurate picture of that
toilet today?

100

A. It is.
Q. Now, are you taking chemistry this year, Miss Ed

wards?
A. I am.
Q. And is that course being taught in the Lincoln

High School building?
A. It is.
Q. And do you have a laboratory in connection with

that course?
A. I understand one is under construction.
Q. I am asking you what you have today?
A. Oh, today, no, we don’t have one.
Q. And you take that course without any experimen

tation at all; you take it simply by lecture from the teacher,
is that correct?

A. Correct.
Q. Were you at the Lincoln High School during the

school years, 1947-48?
A. I was.
Q. Do you recall an occasion when the plaster in one

of the classrooms fell there and created quite a situation?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us about that, what happened, as best

you can tell?
A. Well, as much as I understand, the classes were

passing and the commotion overhead must have caused
[fol. 54] the plaster to fall and I happened to be across
the hall and that is as close as I was, so I don’t know ex
actly what happened.

Q. Now, the auditorium at the Lincoln High School.
Is that used exclusively as an auditorium?

A. No sir.
Q. For what other purpose or purposes is it used?
A. It is used as a study hall and a gymnasium.
Q. Do they have any classes there at all?
A. Yes sir.
Tate: We pass the witness.

101

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Shirley, you say you are taking chemistry this year?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And that you understand that a chemical laboratory

is now being constructed and equipped?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that true of toilets and other facilities down

there? Or do you know?
A. No, I don’t know about that.
Q. There is a lot of work going on down there, isn’t

there?
A. Yes.
Q. And a whole lot of new construction has already

been finished and ready for use, isn’t it, or do you know
that?
[fol. 55] A. No, I don’t think it is ready for use.

Q. You say plaster fell one time in 1947 down there
at Lincoln High?

A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever heard news or stories about what

happened at the other schools, the white schools?
A. No sir.
Q. In regard to plaster and so on?
A. No.
Q. Did you hear a few years ago that the plaster fell

off of one entire ceiling at the Junior High School?
A. No.
Q. You never heard that?
A. No.
Q. And the same thing happened in every school build

ing in the City of Fort Smith. You didn’t know that, did
you?

A. No.
Q. But you know that it did fall one time at Lincoln

High?
A . Y e s .

102

Q. Now, Shirley, about these showers. Your showers
are not in the boiler room, are they? There is a wall be
tween the boiler room and the showers that you use, isn’t
there?

A. There is a partition.
Q. And on the other side of the boiler there is another

partition and another shower room over there. Have you
ever been in that shower room too?
[fol. 56] A. Yes.

Q. You have been in both shower rooms? Haven’t
you?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And you understand one is for the boys and one

for the girls?
A. No, I didn’t.
Q. Well, you just know that the boys and girls use

them interchangeably maybe, is that what you are telling
the Court?

A. Repeat that question please.
Q. How is that?
A. Will you repeat that again, please?
Q. Well, let me change the question just a little bit.

Do you use the two shower rooms down there or do you
use just the one that you spoke of awhile ago?

A. Myself?
Q. Yes, yourself.
A. I use one.
Q. You use how many?
A. Use one.
Q. But you know there is another one over there?
A. No sir.
Q. Do girls use that other one?
A. Yes, they do.
Q. And boys use the one that you use?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 57] Q. At the same time the girls are using it?
A. No.

103

Q. Not at the same time?
A. Not at the same time.
Q. Then you use it interchangeably, although there are

two there, one for the boys and one for the girls. What
do you think they had two down there for?

A. No. The girls use them both one day and the boys
use them both another day.

Q. The boys use them both on certain days?
A. Yes.
Q. Certain designated times?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Then the girls use them certain designated times?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Then you did ’know. You may have misunderstood

counsel’s questioning awhile ago. He asked you if there
was just one shower room, if I remember correctly and you
said there was just one. But now you say there are two
shower rooms?

A. Yes, there are.
Q. One on one side of the boiler room and one on the

other side of the boiler room?
A. Yes.
Q. A ll right. I wanted to clear that up. Shirley, do

you take physical culture now?
[fol. 58] A. No.

Q. That comes in what grades?
A. Eight, nine and ten.
Q. Eight, nine and ten?
A. Yes sir.
Q. The same as in the white schools or do you know

that?
A. I don’t know that.
Q. You don’t know that?
A. No.
Q. You stated that your physical culture was taken

with a male teacher, a man teacher, is that right?
A . Y e s s ir .

104

Q. There was just one teacher there that taught phys
ical culture?

A. Yes.
Q. You know there are two now there, don’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. A man and a woman?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you take domestic science?
A. No.
Q. You don’t take that? Have you ever taken that?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Are you familiar with the new domestic science

building down there? Have you ever been in it?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And the equipment?

[fol. 59] A. Yes sir.
Q. Pretty nice, isn’t it?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. It is now operating, isn’t it? It is actually running,

the new domestic science department down there?
A. I don’t know?
Q. Oh, you don’t know?
A. No.
Q. Do you take typing?
A. No, I don’t.
Q. Have you ever taken typing?
A. No sir.
Q. Is there any typing being taught down there now?
A. Yes.
Q. Typewriters and other equipment in the typing

room?
A. There are typewriters, yes.
Q. You have observed that?
A. Yes, I have.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

105

Re-Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Will you please tell the Court when the typewriters

now in use were brought to the Lincoln School, to the best
of your knowledge?

A. Well, this was the first year that they offered typing,
[fol. 60] Q. The first year they offered it?

A. Yes sir, to the best of my knowledge.
Q. And the domestic science building that is now being

used, when was that opened for use or do you know?
A. Probably in the last two or three weeks.
Tate: A ll right. Thank you very kindly.
Witness excused.

A llen Black, Junior, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. W ill you please tell the Court your name and ad

dress?
A. I am Allen Black, Junior, live at 1730 North 9th

Street.
Q. That is in the City of Fort Smith?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you more than six years and under 21 years of

age?
A. I am.
Q. Do you attend the public schools in the City of Fort

Smith?
A. I do, sir.
Q. What school do you attend?
A. Lincoln High School.
Q. And what grade are you in?
A. Twelfth grade. ;

106

Q. Have you taken shop work at the Lincoln High
School?

A. I have, sir.
[fol. 61] Q. What did you take—what courses did you
take?

A. Woodworking and mechanical drawing.
Q. Woodwork and mechanical drawing. Did you take

any metal trade in the shop?
A. No sir.
Q. Were there any such courses available to you if you

had wanted to take them?
A. There were not.
Q. There were not. A ll right, sir. I show you Plain

tiff’s Exhibit No. 16. That represents two linotype ma
chines in the printing trade shop at the Senior High School
for white children. Do you have any such equipment as
that in the shop of the Lincoln High School for Negroes?

A. No sir.
Mr. Woods: If the Court please, we might stipulate

here that there is no printing and linotype taught in the
Lincoln High School.

Tate: A ll right.
The Court: I didn’t think there was any dispute about

that.
Tate: Do you want to stipulate on the other trades?
Mr. Woods: No, I think that is the only thing we can

stipulate on.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 19 which repre

sents the metal trade shop at the Senior High School for
[fol. 62] white children in Fort Smith. On this picture I
see several metal lathes, that is for turning and working and
processing iron. I see a hydraulic drill press and several
other pieces which are unknown to me. Do you have for
the use and enjoyment of the Negro students at the Lin
coln High School, any such shop equipment as that?

A. No sir.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 20, which is the

woodwork shop at the Senior High School for white chil
dren in Fort Smith. In that picture I see a large band saw,

107

a table, a plane and several other instruments, machines
which might be known to you but which are not known to
me. Do you have any such similar or equal machinery for
enjoyment of Negro children at Lincoln High School?

A. We have the table saw and the band saw.
Q. That is all you have?
A. That is all.
Q. I show you a large supply of lumber, some of it is

cedar, some hardwood and mahogany. Do you have any
such supplies of timber for working at the Lincoln High
School?

A. We have pine.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 25, which is the

drafting room at the Senior High School for white chil
dren in Fort Smith. Do you have any such equal and simi
lar equipment as to quantity and condition of repair at the
[fol. 63] Lincoln High School for Negro children?

A. No sir.
Mr. Shaw: Your Honor, I think he is going a little too

far. Leading this witness out.
Tate: Well, strike that.
The Court: Go ahead.
Q. I show you Exhibit 25, which is the drafting room

at the Senior High School for white children. Do you have
any such similar or equal equipment at the Lincoln High
School for Negroes?

Mr. Shaw: We object, if the Court please. He is ask
ing this witness to draw conclusions. Let him testify as
to what they have.

The Court: That goes to more of the weight of his tes
timony. If you desire to ask him anything about it, you
can. Let him go ahead.

Q. Answer that question, will you please?
A. We have not.
Q. You don’t have any such equipment?
A. No.
Q. Did you take athletics at the Lincoln High School?
A. I did.
Q. Did you happen to use the gymnasium there?

108

A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know the size of that gymnasium floor?

[fol. 64] A. No sir, I don’t.
Q. What equipment do you have for calisthenics there?

Do you have horses there on which to do events?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have bars for chinning yourself, the low and

high bars?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have ropes for climbing?
A. No.
Q. Do you have weights for lifting?
A. No.
Q. Do you have a boxing mat and wrestling mat?
A. We have mats.
Q. Do you have such activities as boxing and tumbling?
A. Yes.
Q. A ll right, sir. Do you have a basketball court there?
A. Yes sir.
Q. But you don’t know the size of that court?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have a Badminton court there?
A. They play Badminton in the gymnasium.
Q. Do you have a hand ball court there?
A. No sir.
Q. A ll right, sir. And of course, you don’t have a

swimming pool there?
A. No sir.

[fol. 65] Q. As to the showers in the basement. How
many showers are there in the basement?

A. Four.
Q. And how are they situated?
A. There are two on the left side of the gymnasium and

two on the right side.
Q. Now, when you are using those shov/ers, how many

of you are required to use them at one time and how
many of you are there in the group using those at one time?

109

A. Sometimes there are as many as forty,
Q. Sometimes as many as forty?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When girls have occasion to take showers, where do

they take their showers?
A. In the same place.
Q. In the same place. Are there any lockers or benches

or other devices for your convenience there?
A. No sir.
Q. What is the physical condition of that basement as

to cleanliness and attractiveness?
A. It is very unattractive.
Q. Is it light down there? Is there any daylight down

there? Can you see daylight down there?
A. No sir.
Q. And your auditorium is used for what purpose other

than a gymnasium and auditorium?
[fol. 66] A. Classroom and study room.

Q. What is the condition of the furniture in that audi
torium?

A. Some of the desks are broken. The folding chairs are
in good condition.

Tate: That is all.
Mr. Woods: No questions.
Witness excused.

C. M. Greene, called as a witness on behalf of the plain
tiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Will you tell the Court your name?
A. My name is C. M. Greene.
Q. What is your profession, sir?
A. I am in the teaching profession, principal of the col

ored schools.

110

Q. You are principal of the colored schools in Fort
Smith, Arkansas?

A. That is right.
Q. How long have you been so engaged?
A. This is my seventh year.
Q. You were sworn, were you Mr. Greene?
A. I was.
Q. Mr. Greene will you tell the Court what courses are

offered at the Lincoln High School for colored children?
A. Well, we have ours divided into four major course di

visions.
[fol. 67] The Court: Let me interrupt. Do you have a
printed curriculum for your school?

A. We do. I don’t have a copy with me.
The Court: I wish you did have because I want that.
Mr. Daily: We have one.
The Court: Let him have it.
Mr. Daily: A ll the copies that I have have been stamped

Defendants’ Exhibit.
Tate: Are you going to introduce those?
Mr. Daily: I did intend to.
The Court: Just let it go. If you are going to get that

in that way, I think it is necessary that I have them in
the record in a printed form rather than try to remember
the various courses, you see. A ll right, go ahead.

Q. Do you issue to your graduates an academic certif
icate?

A. We do.
Q. And do you issue to them a certificate in commercial

trades?
A. We haven’t been because we haven’t been offering

commercial trades.
Q. You wasn’t as of the year 1949?
A. You say commercial work?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. In June, 1950 you will have no such graduates?

[fol. 68] A. No, that is right.

I l l

Q. Do you have a certificate in trades and industries?
A. Yes, we do.
Q. You have a certificate that is marked that way?
A. Yes, we do.
Q. Do you have a nurse at your school?
A. Stationed there?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Do you have the services of a nurse?
A. We do.
Q. Do you have the services of a dentist by way of a

dental clinic for your students every year?
A. Yes, we do.
Q. You speak with some doubt as to that. Will you tell

us just to what extent you have it?
A. We have it to this extent; there isn’t a dentist that is

employed by the school board to serve our school, but one
of our dentists out in the city does render this service each
year, the Spring of each year. We set up a temporary
clinic in our schools each year.

Q. You have not had it before this year?
A. This dental clinic?
Q. Yes.
A. We have had it several years; I say each year.

[fol. 69] Q. How does it happen that you are here testi
fying today, Mr. Greene?

A. I was [subpoened] to come.
Tate: If the Court please, we [subpoened] him under

Rule 43B as an adverse witness.
The Court: A ll right.
Q. In your trade shop, Mr. Greene, will you tell the

Court what equipment you have in that shop as of today?
A. We haven’t any equipment in the new building now.
Q. You have no equipment for teaching shop as of to

day?
A. The building hasn’t opened yet.
Q. Will you tell the Court what equipment you had on

December 10, 1948?

112

A. Well, I am not sure that I can in fairness, name all
the equipment that we had at that time. I do know we
had some motorized equipment but the specific articles I
wouldn’t be sure.

Q. You are the principal of the Lincoln High School?
A. That is right.
Q. You do supervise it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have a stadium connected with your school,

Mr. Greene?
A. We do not.
Q. You don’t have a swimming pool?
A. We do not.

[fol. 70] Q. Do you have a metal shop or did you have a
metal trade shop on December 10, 1948?

A. We did not,
Q. A ll right, sir. Do you have a band in connection

with your school as of today?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you have a band as of December 10, 1948?
A. We did not.
Q. How many pieces are in your band as of today?
A. Well, I think roughly about eight or ten.
Q. Then that would be more nearly an orchestra?
A. It is set up as a band, as the beginning of a band,

but we don’t have the stringed instruments and I under
stand an orchestra must have stringed instruments.

Q. Do you have any business machine equipment in
your school?

A. Such as mimeograph machines?
Q. That is right. Where you teach business courses,

such as the operation of mimeograph machines, comp
tometers, adding machines, check writing machines, book
keeping machines, posting machines and equipment of that
sort?

A. We have some of them.
Q. What do you have?

113

A. We have adding machines; we have mimeograph
machines.

Q. Are they used to teach school children their operation
for professional purposes?
[fol. 71] A. That is right.

Q. You have a course in business machines?
A. Business machines?
Q. Yes.
A. No, not a course in business machines, but given as

a part of some of the other commercial courses—a lot of
specific courses.

Q. A ll right, sir. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No.
13, which is the band room at Senior High School for white
children. Do you have equipment similar to that in your
school?

A. We do not.
Q. I show you the music room at the Junior High

School for white children, Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 14. Do
you have a similar room to that for the teaching of music
in your school?

A. We do not.
Q. Do you teach a course in piano in your school?
A. We do not.
Q. Do you teach a course in violin at your school?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you teach a course in Cello in your school?
A. No sir.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 15, which is a

cafeteria at the high school for white children. Do you
have any such equipment and facilities for serving the
children and teachers at your school?

A. No.
[fol. 72] Q. I show you the metal trades shop, Plaintiff’s
Exhibit No. 19, the metal trades shop for the white
children. Do you have any such equipment as that for the
teaching of metal trades at your school?

A . W e d o n o t.

114

Q, I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 20, which is the
woodworking shop. Do you have any such equipment for
teaching this in your school? Do you have any such equip
ment for teaching woodwork in your school?

A. We have some of the machinery, but not identical
machinery.

Q. Do you have a plane of that sort?
A. No, we don’t.
Q. Do you have a saw of that type?
A. Yes, there is a saw I think, of that type. I don’t

know about the size, you know of it, but as far as the
general construction.

Q. Don’t you have a saw more nearly like this?
A. We have both. We have one like this and one on

this order here.
Q. A ll right. There is some equipment over here.

Do you have any such equipment as that?
A. No, we don’t.
Q. Now, you said you didn’t have a course in business

machines. Strike that, please sir. Now, this is the faculty
lounge at the Senior High School for white children,
Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 28. Do you have any such facility
[fol. 73] for the use and enjoyment of the Negro teachers
at your school?

A. We do not.
Q. This is the second room of that lounge. Do you

have any such facility for the use of your teachers there?
A. No, we don’t.
Q. This is the auditorium, Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 30

at the Senior High School for white children. Do you have
any such equipment and facility in your auditorium as
that?

A. No.
Q. This is the auditorium at the Junior High School for

white children, Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 31. Do you have
any such equipment and facilities for cultural uses as
that?

A . N o .

115

Q. Have you ever applied for the use of the auditorium
at either the Senior or Junior High Schools by your school
for any cultural purposes?

A. No.
Q. You have never applied for it?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not it

would be granted if you did apply for it?
A. No, I have no knowledge at all.
Q. I show you the balcony of the auditorium at the

Lincoln High School for Negro children. It that a true
representation of that balcony as of today, sir?
[fol. 74] A. No, not of today.

Q. Has it improved or is it in a worse condition than
it is now? That is Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 35?

A. Well, it has improved. I happened to be there when
the picture was made. This was a temporary situation
and it doesn’t depict the situation all the time.

Q. A ll right, sir. What is the size of the basketball
court in your auditorium?

A. Well, I don’t know in terms of feet and yards. I
wouldn’t attempt to say.

Q. When that basketball court is used for basketball,
how many people can you seat in your auditorium?

A. Well, I would say roughly maybe 150 or 200.
Q. Where are they seated?
A. Sitting in three places on the stage and on the

balcony and under the balcony.
Q. Then all of this is improvised seats, is that right?
A. That is right.
Q. Are those the seats that they would be using, that

is Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 36, showing the chairs in the
auditorium?

A. Using them in the gym?
Q. Yes.
A. No, they are taken out when we have a game.
Q. What sort of seats would they use?

116

[fol. 75] A. Folding chairs and bleachers.
Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 39, which is

a corner of the auditorium, showing brooms, mops and
wastebaskets. Is that a true representation of that space
as of today?

A. Well, I don’t know what is there today. I know
this wastepaper basket, that is the permanent location of it.

Q. Is that a true representation of the condition of
that space on February 26, 1949?

A. Is that the day these pictures were made?
Q. Yes.
A. I was there the day they was made.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 40, which is the

library at the Senior High School for white children. Do
you have any such similar equipment for the use and en
joyment of Negro students at your school?

A. I would say similar but I don’t know about the
equal. I couldn’t pass on that.

Q. A ll right, sir. I show you the reading room adjacent
to the library at the Senior High School for white children.
That is Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 41. Do you have any such
similar facilities for the use and enjoyment of your students
at the Lincoln High School?

A. We do not.
Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 42, which is

the library at the Lincoln High School for Negro children
in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Is that a true representation
[fol. 76] of your library, sir?

A. It is.
Q. May I ask you, Mr. Greene, whether all of the books

in that library belong to the public school system or not?
A. No, they all do not belong to the public school

system.
Q. How many books of that group are there that do not

belong to the public school system?
A. I am not sure; I don’t know. The majority of them.

The majority do belong to the public school.
Q. The majority belong to the school?

117

A. Yes.
Q. To whom does the other books belong?
A. They are part of the Carnegie Library, public

library.
Q. So that your library then, is both a school library

and a public library for the community, is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. You, as principal, are unable to tell what books

belong to the school and what books belong to the Carnegie
Library?

A. I am not prepared to give the figure.
Q. Do you have an inventory of the value of all the

books in your library, sir?
A. Yes, we do.
Q. How many volumes have you got?
A. I think our last report, approximately—I think it is

around 5000 volumes.
[fol. 77] Q. 5000 volumes.

A. Yes sir.
Q. Those belong to the public school system?
A. And the Carnegie Library.
Q. You don’t know how many belong to the Carnegie

Library system and how many belong to the public school
system?

A. I don’t have that information with me, but we have
that information at the school.

Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 46. That is
the boys’ toilet at the Senior High School, for white chil
dren. Do you have any such similar facilities for Negroes
at the Lincoln High School?

A. We do not.
. Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 47, which is the

end of the stairs entering the showers for boys and girls
at your school. Is that a true representation of the condi
tion of that space on February 26, 1949?

A. It is.
Q. Is that a true representation of the condition of that

space as of that day?

118

A. Partially.
Q. When you say partially, do you mean that it is in

a better condition or in a worse condition?
A. Some of these things, for instance, the ladder isn’t

there.
[fol. 78] Q. The condition of the wall is as you see it here
now?

A. That is right.
Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 50, which is

a science room at the Senior High School for white chil
dren in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Do you have any such
similar facilities for the teaching of sciences in your
school, sir?

A. No.
Q. On the wall there is a chart of atomic relations.

Do you have any such chart as that for visual aid in your
school?

A. No.
Q. There are other charts demonstrating the teaching

of science. Do you have any such teaching aid devices in
your school, sir?

A. Yes, we have some charts.
Q. All right, sir. But do you have these particular

charts?
A. I don’t know what is on those charts.
Q. You see on the wall a clock. Do you have a clock

in the classrooms of your building, sir?
A. No, we do not.
Q. In your classrooms?
A. We do not.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 51, which shows

the stock room of chemicals for the teaching of sciences.
Do you have any such similar stock on hand for the use
and enjoyment of your students, sir?

A. We have some stock on hand, but I am not in posi
tion—
[fol. 79] Q. Would you say it is as ample as that?

119

A. Well, I am not sure. I ’ll tell you why I am saying
that, we have crates and crates of scientific equipment
that we haven’t in operation. On that date?

Q. Yes.
A. No, not on that date.
Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 54 which is

the science room at the Lincoln High School for Negroes.
Is that a true representation of that room on February 26,
1949?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Is that a true representation of that building as of

today?
A. This room? No, it isn’t.
Q. What is the condition of that room as of today?
A. This room, it is now being used for the commercial

courses and these tables have been removed.
Q. Are all of those tables out now?
A. Yes. These four tables are out. Still a demonstra

tion desk in there and display cabinets are still in there.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 56, which is a

special class room at the Junior High School for white
children in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Do you have any such
similar room for the teaching of children in your school?

A. No, we haven’t.
Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 58, which is

the hall of the Junior High School showing certain metal
lockers. Do you have any such facilities and devices at
ffol. 80] your school for the use and enjoyment of your
pupils?

A. No, we haven’t.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 59, which is the

cloak room at the Lincoln High School for Negro children.
Is that a true representation of that cloak room as of
February 26, 1949?

A. It is.
Q. Is that a true representation of that room as of to

day?
A . I t is .

120

Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 63, which
shows the stairs going up from the basement of the Lincoln
High School to the first floor. There is hanging from the
wall a torn down curtain, the walls are generally smeared
and defaced and the stairs are very narrow. Is that a true
representation of that space as of February 26, 1949?

A. It is.
Q. Is that a true representation of that space as of

today?
A. As far as the stairs and wall is concerned, but not

the curtain.
Q. You took the curtain down?
A. That is right.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 66, which is the

sewing machines in the domestic science room. Excuse
me—strike that please. Do you have a public address
system in your school, Mr. Greene?
[fol. 81] A. Yes, we do.

Q. So that you can sit in your office and communicate
with the teachers throughout the building?

A. Yes sir.
Q. That is fine. Now, in the Spring of 1949, Mr„

Greene, the Negro patrons of the Fort Smith, Arkansas,
presented a petition to the Board of Education requesting
that certain improvements with respect to their school
be made. That petition was signed by certain ministers
in this community, to-wit, a Mr. Hacokins, a Mr. Perry, a
Mr. Watson, a Mr. Wagner, a Mr. Means, a Mr. Whitmore,
a Mr. Shumpert and a Mr. Pearson. At some later date,
they withdrew their names from that petition and they
withdrew their names from that petition by sending this
letter to the Board of Education. This letter appears in
the minutes of the Board of Education as of October 11,
1948, I think. The letter is to Mr. Raymond Orr of the
Fort Smith School Board, Fort Smith, Arkansas, “Dear
Sir: We take this method of setting before you certain
actions that have been taken by us, and that we have
signed the petition and endorsed the same from the N. A.
A. C. P. to the Fort Smith School Board. After more
thoughtful investigation, we find that we were misin

121

formed. We acknowledge this error on our part as min
isters of the city. We want to thank Mr. Corbin and Mr.
C. M. Greene for their information and light given to us
relative to colored schools. In brief, we rescinded our
[fol. 82] action and withdrew our signatures from the
petition. We ask you to ignore our signatures on the
petition coming to you. We are making our actions pub
licly known.” Now, Mr. Greene, what information with
respect to colored schools did you give these ministers
which made them change their position?

A. Well, I didn’t give them any information at all.
An appointment was arranged for Mr. Corbin to meet
with these ministers and I carried Mr. Corbin to the Min
isterial Alliance meeting. I think the arrangement was
made more or less through the president of the School
Board and Mr. Corbin asked me to take him to this meet
ing and I took him to this meeting and presented him
to the ministers and it was in that meeting that he de
scribed in rather detail what the School Board plans were
for improving the facilities for the colored schools.

Q. Now, you say the School Board sought a conference
with the ministers, is that correct?

A. I don’t know who sought the conference, but I
think the ministers had been in touch with the president
of the School Board.

Q. And that Mr. Corbin was to go before these min
isters and you took him and introduced him?

A. That is right.
Q. Then this part of the letter in which they thank you

for your contribution and light, is not correct, is that
[fol. 83] true? You gave them no information or light,
is that correct?

A. I didn’t give any information. That is correct. I
did just present Mr. Corbin to the group.

Q. And who asked you to take Mr. Corbin to that meet
ing?

A. I think Mr. Corbin asked me; I am not sure. I
believe he called me.

Q. What is Mr. Corbin’s position in the public school
system?

122

A. He is Assistant Superintendent.
Q. Assistant Superintendent?
A. Yes sir.
Q. He went to a meeting and explained to the min

isters what the School Board proposed to do about the
school system?

A. Yes.
Q. What else did he explain to them?
A. Well, I think that was all of it. His talk embraced

not only the physical facilities, but also touched on the
curriculum adjustments that were to be made.

Q. Now, Mr. Greene, in 1936, did you receive any grant
to the improvement of your schools from any W. P. A.
funds that were made available to the Board of Educa
tion?

A. In ’36?
Q. Yes.
A. I don’t know. I wasn’t there then.
Q. You were not there at that time? In 1944, did you

receive any material from the N. Y. A.?
[fol. 84] A. Yes, we did.

Q. What did you receive?
A. We received some equipment for the Home Eco

nomics Department and some equipment also for our shop,
including some tables, I believe, and some chairs.

Q. When you say some tables, let’s be a little more
specific.

A. You mean the number of tables?
Q. Yes.
A. I believe there were six.
Q. What sort of tables were they?
A. They were heavy tables about eight or ten feet long,

I suppose, work tables that you can use or had probably
been used in a clothing laboratory.

Q. You were using them in your shop as a part of your
teaching material?

A. In our Home Economics Department.
Q. What else did you get?

123

A. I mentioned the chairs, I believe, and I think some
rockers, steel cabinets, I believe, and adding machines
and typewriters. I am not sure what the other articles
are.

Q. Did you get some equipment for your shop?
A. I believe we did. We did get some equipment for

the shop?
Q. What did you get?
A. As I recall, I remember a desk, a teacher’s desk

and I believe two or three pieces of steel furniture, cab-
[fol. 85] inets or lockers.

Q. Did you get some wrenches?
A. I am not sure about the wrenches; I don’t remember

offhand.
Q. Did you have a guidance counsel in your school?
A. We do.
Q. Do you have a maid?
A. We do not.
Q. Do you have a Dean of Girls?
A. We do.
Q. Do you have a Dean of Boys?
A. We do.
Q. A ll right, sir. You are the principal of all the

Negro schools in Fort Smith, Arkansas, is that correct?
A. That is right.
Q. How many such schools are there?
A. There are four.
Q. Are you able to give in your estimation as a teacher,

competent supervision to that many schools?
A. I feel that I am.
Q. You feel that you are? Do you have a community

counselor connected with your schools?
A. A community counselor?
Q. Yes.
A. We do not have.

[fol. 86] Q. Do you have an athletic director?
A. No.

124

Q. Do you have a curriculum officer for the planning
of curriculums and instructions?

A. We have a curriculum committee.
Q. And when your committee makes a study, what does

it do with its findings?
A. If their findings suggest curriculum revision, such

recommendations are made. We proceed to bring them
about—whatever changes are suggested by the committee.

Q. Now, do you have a group of parents who have been
invited to work with you on curriculum planning?

A. No, we haven’t.
Q. To your knowledge, when the community has made

a demand upon the Board of Education for the broaden
ing of their curriculum, the Board of Education has sought
to discourage that as, to-wit, the meeting with the Minis
terial Alliance, is that true?

A. Have discouraged which?
Q. Has discouraged the action on the part of the patrons

of your schools when they have expressed themselves as
being desirous of broadening the educational opportuni
ties and advantages of Negro children in this community?

A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. You do recall, however, that you took Mr. Corbin to

a meeting of the Ministerial Alliance?
[fol. 87] A. That is right.

Q. And that he did there dissuade them from taking
any action?

A. No, I didn’t know anything about dissuading them
from taking any action. I do know that two or three
ministers had talked with Mr. Orr about some of the
things that had been asked for and he suggested that he
would send a man'—an employee of the School Board out
to talk with them because that was his specialty and he
could give them more detailed information on that par
ticular question than he could—that he was a specialist
when it came to curriculum and that sort of thing—he
would rely on him to enlighten them on that.

Q. Here is the contents of that petition. They petition,
“We, the undersigned” and so on, “ Citizens and taxpayers

125

petition the Board for the following, in substance: 1. In
schools attended by white children foreign languages are
taught, but in the schools for Negro children they are not
taught” . Is that a just contention? Was that a just con
tention at that time?

A. That was.
Q. A just contention. “ In schools attended by white

children typing, shorthand and accounting are taught but
in schools for Negro children, these subjects are not taught.”
Is that a fair and accurate contention?

A. At that time, it is.
[fol. 88] Q. “ In the school for white children mechanical
drawing and its incidental subjects are taught, but they
are not taught in Negro schools” . Was that a just con
tention at that time?

A. No, it wasn’t.
Q. Mechanical drawing was taught?
A. It was.
Q. Who taught it?
A. Mr. Miller.
Q. A ll right, sir. “ In the schools for white children,

salesmanship is taught, but this subject is not taught in
Negro schools.” Was that a just contention at that time?

A. It was.
Q. It is a just contention at this time?
A. It is.
Q. “ In the school for white children physics is taught

but not taught in the Negro schools” . Was that a just
contention at that time?

A. It was.
Q. Is it a just contention at this time?
A. Yes and no. You mean is it actually being taught

today?
Q. Yes.
A. No, it isn’t.
Q. “ In the school for white children the subject of

metal work is taught but in the Negro schools this sub
ject is not taught.” Was that a just contention at that
time?

126

A. It was.
[fol. 89] Q. Is it a just contention today?

A. It is.
Q. In the schools for white children— ” . I will just

read this. You needn’t answer it. “ In the schools for
white children, printing, typesetting, linotyping and as
sociate works are taught, but such subjects are not taught
in the Negro Schools.” That has been admitted here, so
you will not have to bother with that. “ In the schools for
white children auto mechanic subjects are taught, but this
subject is not taught in the schools for Negroes.” Was
that a just contention at that time?

A. It was.
Q. Is it a just contention today?
A. No, it isn’t.
Q. Where are your auto mechanic courses being taught

today?
A. In the rear of Lincoln school.
Q. Right out in the yard?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It it were to rain, what would happen—you couldn’t

hold that course?
A. The theory is given on the inside.
Q. The practical application, you couldn’t do that?
A. No sir.
Q. Where those automobiles are setting right now, is

the ground dry there?
[fol. 90] A. No, I am sure it is not.

Q. As they walk around the automobiles, they bog
down in the grass?

A. They would in wet weather.
Q. They do now? They did yesterday?
A. I f it was wet back there, they would.
Q. Education on the Junior College level is provided

for white children, but not provided for Negroes. Was it
then?

Mr. Woods: Object to that.

127

The Court: Objection is sustained at this time. It is
admitted that it is not in this case.

Tate: A ll right, sir.
Q. Mr. Greene, each year there is a mass meeting held

in February where the School Board reports to the public.
To your knowledge, have Negroes been invited to these
mass meetings?

A. They have.
Q. Do you attend them?
A. Usually do.
Q. There is a curriculum committee in the white school

system. Are you or any member of your staff a part of
that committee?

A. When the curriculum committees function, they do
work with them.

Q. I mean do you actually go to meetings with them
and sit down and deliberate with them?

A. No, not the curriculum committee.
[fol. 91] Q. The School Board has in the past and did in
1948, send at public expense, four teachers to the National
Educational Association Committee Meeting. Have you
or any member of your staff ever been sent at public ex
pense to any of those meetings?

A. No, not that I know of.
Tate: We pass the witness.
The Court: Court will be in recess until 1:30.

12:00 o’clock noon November 9, 1949 Court recessed un
til 1:30 P. M.

1:30 P. M. November 9, 1949 Court met pursuant to re
cess.

Continuing direct examination of C. M. Greene.
Tate:
Q. Mr. Greene, I think you were testifying when Court

adjourned awhile ago, is that correct?
A. That is right.
Q. Now then, in the beginning of your testimony, Mr.

Greene, you testified that your school was prepared to

128

give a series of different diplomas; you said you gave an
academic diploma, is that correct?

A. That is right.
Q. The standard requirement for an academic diploma

is in the ninth, tenth and eleventh grade English, twenty-
four academic credits are required, two in Algebra, two in
plane Geometry, two in Social Science and eight elective,
[fol. 92] Now, will you tell me what courses made up your
academic diploma? If a child desired an academic diploma
in your school, what courses will he take to make up! this
group?

A. He will take four units in English, a minimum of
two units in the field of mathematics.

Q. What are those units?
A. Algebra and Geometry.
Q. Algebra and Geometry one?
A. That is right. If he chooses to specialize in the so

cial sciences, he takes them every year, World History,
American History, Sociology, American Government, Ne
gro History, and then he may take two units in a foreign
language, two units in French and the others are elective.

Q. What electives may he take?
A. He may elect from the field of industrial arts, he

may elect two possible units in the field of industrial arts.
Q. Name those specifically.
A. Industrial arts?
Q. Yes.
A. They are exploratory. There is some metal work,

some woodwork and some drafting.
Q. I believe we have agreed by stipulation that you

don’t have a metal work shop?
A. Yes.
Q. How does he get this metal work?

[fol. 93] A. Well, it is scheduled for the latter part of the
school year in anticipation of the shop being open.

Q. Could you have granted such a certificate in June
of 1948?

A. No.

129

Q. Now, there is a general diploma which includes sev
enteen academic credits, including six in ninth, tenth and
eleventh grade English, two in Math, four in Social Science,
including American History, two in Science and three elec
tive, two-fifteen elective academic or non-academic credits
including trade training. Now, are you prepared to give
such a certificate as that?

A. Yes, we are.
Q. In what particular respect will that certificate, the

composition of the studies taken by a student, in what par
ticular respect will that certificate differ from your aca
demic diploma?

A. One of the chief differences in the academic diploma,
we require the foreign language. In the general, we don’t
require a foreign language.

Q. Now, you have a practical arts diploma, do you
grant that?

A. No, we don’t.
Q. You don’t grant that?
A. No.
Q. And you have a trade diploma. Do you grant that?
A. Yes.

[fol. 94] Q. That is the white public schools have those
diplomas. Now, that includes fourteen academic credits
including six in the ninth, tenth and eleventh grade Eng
lish, four in the Social Science, four in Math, or Science,
two-twelve credits earned in four semesters of shop work;
three hours each school day— 1090 hours—and four semes
ter hours of study in related subjects, one hour each school
day— 360 hours—three, six elective credits. Will you tell
us in what specific respect this diploma differs from your
academic diploma and your general diploma?

A. In the Junior or Senior year, the student specializes
in his particular trade which has been woodwork up until
now and he does not have to take English all the way
through. He doesn’t have to take English but two of those
years in it.

Q. He has to have four semester hours in shop?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What does that include?

130

A. If he is specializing in woodwork, it is woodwork
and if it is in auto mechanics, it is in auto mechanics.

Q. Do you have or did you have in 1948, four semesters
in woodwork?

A. We did.
Q. A ll right. W ill you tell me what was included in

each semester?
A. Well, I don’t remember offhand, but I can tell you

what was included in the whole course, in a rather general
[fol. 95] way; building construction trade and in that build
ing construction trades, they were taught carpentry, ma
sonry and the interior decorating phases of it are included,
electrical wiring is included. Practically everything that
you do in connection with construction of a house.

Q. Who taught that?
A. Mr. Miller.
Q. And what other material do you have?
A. In that course?
Q. Yes.
A. I don’t recall anything other than the related sub

jects, such as drafting goes along with it.
Q. Now, in your courses, do you have any opportunity

to send your boys out on practical on-the-job experiences.
A. In the woodworking course only.
Q. In the woodworking course only, how do you put

them out.
A. The teacher. Someone makes a contact with the

teacher. Maybe he has a house to be built or some other
job around the home to be done such as repairing or re
building a porch and screening in a porch and so forth, then
the teacher takes the boys out there and they are under
their teacher three clock hours a day and they will chec
out in the afternoon and go out on that job and actually
perform.

Q. Building a porch or screening a porch?
[fol. 96] A. Whatever that job happens to be.

Q. Have you ever had one to go out on the actual con
struction of a building?

A. Yes, we have.

131

Q. And was that building being constructed under a li
censed construction engineer?

A. I think not.
Q. Now, Mr. Greene, does your school now give courses

in Spanish?
A. It does not.
Q. Does your school give courses in Latin?
A. It does not.
Q. Your school does not give courses in printing? That

is agreed. Does your school give courses in Trigonometry?
A. It does not.
Q. Does your school give training in diversified occu

pations?
A. It does not.
Q. Does your school give training in industrial arts in

cluding sign painting?
A. Not sign painting.
Q. Dramatics?
A. No sir.
Q. Costume jewelry making?
A. No sir.
Q. Pewter work?

[fob 97] A. No sir.
Q. Polishing and jewelry work leading to making cos

tume jewelry, you answer that no. Commercial art and
display work leading to courses in advertising?

A. No.
Q. Do they have an opportunity to study oil and water

colors?
A. No.
Q. And painting and so on. Do you give courses in

commercial law?
A. No.
Q. Do you give courses in consumer education?
A. No.
Q. Courses in architectural screening?
A. Not a specific course.

132

Q. Do you give courses in distributive education?
A. No sir,
Q. Do you give courses in business arithmetic?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you give courses in journalism?
A. No.
Q. Do you give courses in accounting two and three?
A. Two and three.
Q. Yes.
A. No. Let me ask you, what do you mean by “ two

and three” ?
Q. As described in the course of study at the white

school, which I take it are the follow-up courses after
[fol. 98] accounting one. Accounting one, I take it, is one
semester.

A. We don’t necessarily use the same numbering sys
tem they use over there.

Q. Do you have more than one course in accounting?
A. No, just one course.
Q. Do you have a course in commercial geography?
A. No.
Q. Algebra three—that is the third series. You have

one course and a course advanced to that and a course ad
vanced to that?

A. No sir.
Q. Do you have a course in salesmanship?
A. No.
Q. In your Home Economic course, do you have spe

cialized study in foods?
A. Yes.
Q. In textiles and clothing?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have World History?
A. We do.
Q. Now, on your schedule here I notice that you just

have history. Tell us how many kinds of history you do
have.

133

A. We have two in the Senior High School, World
History and American History.

Q. Do you have a course in American Government?
[fol. 99] A. We do.

Q. That is not on your schedule?
A. It comes in the second semester.
Q. You didn’t have it in 1948?
A. We did the second semester.
Q. Now, Mr. Greene, looking to the creditation of your

school, how many school teachers do you have with Mas
ter Degrees?

A. Not any.
Q. How were you able to measure the competency of

your library since part of the library is not owned by your
school, for the purpose of accrediting your school;
how were you able to determine the extent of your library?

A. By the number of books that the school owned, and
by the number of semester hours of training the librarian
has.

Q. You don’t know how many books the school owns?
A. Yes, I do. I don’t have that information here. We

have the number of books listed. We can tell from our
records.

Q. Then I misunderstood you this morning when you
testified that you didn’t have the number of books?

A. I said I didn’t have that information here with me
this morning.

Q. Now, was your library actually inspected by the
committee on accreditation?

A. It is inspected. The school was accredited before
I came here.
[fol. 100] Q. And it is inspected periodically now?

A. That is right.
Q. When was it last inspected?
A. It is inspected annually.
Q. Now, your school is admittedly an accredited school.

What class is your school, A Class, B, or C school?

134

A. Well, it is the North Central High School, that is an
A rating so far as the State is concerned and there is only
one rating the North Central gives you; you are either
rated or you are not rated.

Q. Now, Mr. Greene, some years ago there was an auto
mobile available in the schools for teaching safety driving
in the white schools. Do you have any knowledge that
your school ever had a course in safety driving and had
made available to it an automobile for that purpose?

A. No, I have no such knowledge.
Q. Now, by way of an athletic style. Do you have a

head coach who devotes his whole time to coaching?
A. No sir.
Q. Or the major portion thereof?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have an assistant coach?
A. We have coaches but they don’t have those desig

nations as head and assistant.
Q. I see, sir.
Tate: We pass the witness.

[fol. 101] Cross Examination.
Mr. Wood:
Q. Professor Greene, how long have you been principal

of the Lincoln High School?
A. I am in my seventh year.
Q. Your seventh year?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You have been principal of the grade schools dur

ing all of that period?
A. During that same period of time.
Q. Where did you come from to Fort Smith?
A. I came from Mississippi to Fort Smith.
Q. What place?
A. Mound Bayou.
Q. Were you a teacher there?
A. I was principal there.
Q. What kind of a school was that?

135

A. It was a consolidated school.
Q. How large was it?
A. I think there were fifteen teachers.
Q, And about how many pupils?
A. About 600.
Q. How long did you teach there?
A. Four years.
Q. Had you taught previously to that?

[fol. 102] A. I had.
Q. Where did you teach?
Q. Just prior to that, I was doing college work; I was

teaching in the state college in Mississippi.
Q. What place was that?
A. Alcorn A and M College.
Q. Where?
A. Alcorn, Mississippi.
Q. How long were you there?
A. Seven years.
Q. And before that, did you have some teaching ex

perience?
A. I did. I have had six years’ teaching experience

before that.
Q. Where was that?
A. Down at Pass Christian, Mississippi.
Q. What kind of a school?
A. Four year high school, small community school.
Q. How large is Pass Christian?
A. A population of about 5000.
Q. At that time?
A. At that time.
Q. How large was your school?
A. I think my enrollment was around 200.
Q. Were you principal there?
A. I was principal there.

[fol. 103] Q. Where did you obtain your own education?

136

A. My undergraduate work was done at Wilberforce
University in Ohio and my graduate work was done at
Columbia University.

Q. New York City?
A. Yes.
Q. What degrees you hold?
A. I have a [Batchelor] of Science degree and a Master

of Arts degree.
Q. What school awarded your Master of Arts degree?
A. Columbia.
Q. So you have had 15 or 16 years’ experience then as

a principal of schools, is that correct?
A. Perhaps a little more than that, because when I was

working at Alcorn College I was principal of the laboratory
high school.

Q. Could you tell the Court from memory about what
your enrollment is this year at the four schools that you
have enumerated? The four colored schools that you are
principal of?

A. I can give you their approximate enrollment.
Q. Just name the schools.
A. Lincoln High School, the enrollment 264 at present.
Q. 264?
A. I think 264, and Howard around 384 or 385; Wash

ington—Dunbar each has about 27 or 28.
Q. Each has 27 or 28?

[fol. 104] A. Yes, sir.
Q. That represents the total enrollment of the four

colored schools?
A. That is right.
Q. That would be in the neighborhood of 600 students?
A. It may be nearer 700, I am not sure.
Q. Whatever that totals?
A. That is right. That takes into consideration all of

them.
Q. Now, is there anything unusual about the making

of one principal, the principal of several schools?

137

A. I haven’t found it so.
Q. That is true of the white schools here too, isn’t it?
A. It is.
Q. Do you know Professor Beard?
A. I do.
Q. He is principal of a number of white schools, isn’t

he?
A. That is right.
Q. With a total enrollment of 1100 or 1200 children,

or do you know that?
A. I know that.
Q. And the same thing is true of the other white

schools of the district?
A. Yes, sir, I know that is true.
Q. One principal will have several schools under his

jurisdiction?
[fol. 105] A. Yes, sir.

Q. Professor Greene, what has been your experience
here in Fort Smith with Superintendent Ramsey and the
administrative officers of the district and the school board
with reference to co-operation in advancing the affairs
of the schools under your jurisdiction?

A. Well, I found the administrative officers to be quite
co-operative so far as our school is concerned when it
comes to supplying materials of instructions and opportuni
ties for professional growth. The relationship has been
quite wholesome.

Q. During your service, have you had occasion to call
upon the school board or Superintendent Ramsey or the
other administrative officers for services for your school
in the way of supplying curriculum or supplies or repairs
to your buildings?

A. Yes sir, constantly.
Q. What has been the response generally?
A. The response usually has been favorable.
Q. Does your group have teachers—are they organized

—do they belong to a teacher’s organization?
A . T h e y do.

138

Q. What organizations do they belong to?
A. Well, locally they have a classroom teacher’s associa

tion and then they belong to the State Teacher’s Associa
tion and also the National Educational Association.
[fol. 106] Q. Now, locally—you speak of the Classroom
Teacher’s Association. Is that a separate organization
from the whites?

A. It is a separate one.
Q. Do the two groups meet together?
A. They meet together but not as an organization.

They meet as a professional organization.
Q. The white and colored classroom teachers?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How often do they meet?
A. Regularly; I think they have about four meetings a

year. And there are other departmental meetings. Some
of them are scheduled on a monthly and maybe some, on
a weekly basis. Some kind of a meeting going on every
week.

Q. And the colored teachers and the white teachers
meet together?

A. They do.
Q. Take part together in the affairs of the organization?
A. That is right.
Q. Do you attend those meetings yourself?
A. Yes sir, I do.
Q. Regularly?
A. I do.
Q. Do all of your teachers attend regularly?
A. I think they do in those instances. When there is

a meeting related to their work, they do attend.
[fol. 107] Q. By the way, Professor Greene, you have
stated your own qualifications and preparations for carry
ing on the type of work you are doing. Could you give
the Court, in your own way, and briefly, the qualifications
of your classroom teachers? Your teaching force? What
can you say about their preparation and qualifications for
the positions that they fill?

139

A. Well, all of the teachers meet the requirements of
the North Central Association. A ll of them except one
have degrees from a school that are approved by the state
committee that makes recommendations to the North
Central.

Q. How many teachers do you have all told?
A. There are thirteen.
Q. In all of the schools?
A. Just in the high school. There are twenty-six, I

believe, in all the schools.
Q. And you mean to say that twenty-five out of the

twenty-six have degrees?
A. No sir, I meant all of them in the high school except

one.
Q. Who is that one?
A. The librarian.
Q. Does the librarian have special training as a

librarian?
A. She has the training that the North Central requires

of a librarian.
[fol. 108] Q. Considered as the equivalent of a degree?

A. That is right. They don’t require a degree—so many
semester hours.

Q. Your grade school teachers, what would you say as
to their qualifications?

A. Well, in one of the grade schools we have three
teachers with Masters degrees.

Q. What school is that?
A. Howard—three teachers with Masters.
Q. What schools are they from?
A. One is from Kansas State College at Manhattan,

Kansas; one from Northwestern University and one from
the University of Michigan.

Q. Have M. A. degrees from those schools?
A. From those schools.
Q. What degrees do the others hold?
A. A ll the rest I believe, except about three, have de

grees.

140

Q. That is [Batchelors] degrees?
A. [Batchelors] degrees.
Q. From a type of school that is approved by the North

Central Association of Schools and Colleges?
A. Yes sir, or the State Department of Agriculture.
Q. And of the state?
A. Yes sir, I say of the State Department of Education

because the elementary schools, we don’t make a report to
the North Central on them, however, they base our rating
[fol. 109] on our elementary schools as well as the high
school.

Q. I am going to ask you this question; you need not
answer it until the Court states whether it is a proper
question or not. Are you in a position to compare the
quality of schools that you have taught in in other states
with the Fort Smith colored schools?

A. Say, am I.
Tate: I object to that. We don’t believe there is any

relationship.
The Court: Objection sustained.
Q. Professor Greene, is there any other accredited

school, colored school in the State of Arkansas?
A. Accredited by North Central?
Q. Yes.
A. Two more.
Q. What are they?
A. The Dunbar High School in Little Rock and Merrill

High School in Pine Bluff.
Q. Do you know what the enrollment of those schools

are?
A. No sir, I don’t.
Q. Do you know whether they are larger or smaller

than Lincoln High?
A. They are larger. Both are larger.
Q. I don’t know whether I understood one answer that

you gave to counsel awhile ago. I understood him to ask
[fol. 110] you if Lincoln High was in position to give an
academic diploma in 1948 and I understood your answer to
be no.

141

A. Not an academic. My answer wasn’t no to that.
Q. How is that?
A. My answer wasn’t no to that question. Academic

diploma?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, my answer was yes.
Q. You could give an academic diploma in 1948?
A. Not the academic, no.
Q. What is an academic diploma?
A. As we have it set up now, it requires a foreign lan

guage. We didn’t have a foreign language then. We do
have a foreign language now.

Q. You are qualified to give that now?
A. Yes sir. That is what my answer should have been

and was.
Q. Another question was asked you about metal work.

In your industrial arts department which would be an
elective, wouldn’t it?

A. It would be given as we have it set up now on in
dustrial arts basis, not on a trades basis.

Q. Could you have given a certificate in 1948 on that—
that is, last year?

A. On which?
Q. Metal work as a course in your industrial arts?

[fol. I l l ] A. We didn’t have metal work, so we couldn’t
have given it.

Q. But you will be qualified now with your present
program?

A. To give an industrial arts diploma?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, we would be.
Q. Now, when Mr. Tate asked you this morning about

the petition that was submitted to the school board—I
think it was an inadvertence on his part. He stated a
petition that was presented to the school,board in Feb
ruary, January or February of this year. There was no
such petition as of that date that you know of, was there?

A. Well, I didn’t know anything about when the peti
tion was circulated.

142

The Court: He later corrected that. He did say 1949.
He didn’t mean it and the next question showed that he
didn’t mean ’49.

Mr. Woods: It was the petition that was presented in
November that you have reference to?

Tate: Yes sir.
Q. Now, there were eleven complaints made or eleven

requests made or eleven instances pointed out in that peti
tion, wherein the petitioners thought or alleged and stated
that the colored school curriculum was deficient as com
pared with that of the whites. Now, you were asked that
if the foreign language—if Item No. 1, where it states,
“ Foreign languages are taught in the white schools but not
[fol. 112] in the Negro schools.” You were asked if that
was a fair or just, I believe, were the words used—a fair
complaint of that date and you said yes. Is it a fair com
plaint as of this date?

A. It is not.
Q. Now then, you were asked if the typewriting and

shorthand and accounting, if the complaint on that score
was fair or justifiable as of the date that it was made and
you said yes. Would that be a fair complaint now?

A. It is not.
Q. On Number 3, that is mechanical drawing. I believe

you stated—
A. We have been having that all along.
Q. That you had that all the time?
A. That is right.
Q. Now you were asked about physics, if the com

plaint that physics was not taught on the date of this peti
tion. You were asked if that was a fair complaint and you
stated yes, and I believe you further stated that physics
are still not taught. It is a fact, isn’t it, Professor Greene
that under the present set-up, the present program, physics
and chemistry are to be offered alternately, one one se
mester and one the next or one one school year?

A. Yes sir, one one year and the other the next.
[fol. 113] Q. So every high school student, during the
period of his attendance upon the high school, will have
both physics and chemistry?

143

A. Yes sir, all those who choose it.
Q. In the light of that set-up, would you say that that

complaint is fair today?
A. It is not.
Q. Now, you were also asked if the complaint that

journalism isn’t taught, and I believe you stated journalism
still isn’t offered as a separate subject?

A. That is right.
Q. You do have instructions in journalism in all of

your—
A. We do in Senior English course.
Q. Now, metal works under the present set-up, there

will be a complete lay-out in training in metal work, will
there not?

A. That is right.
Q. And machine shop—the same thing applies to that,

there w ill be a complete lay-out in machine shop training,
will there not, in the present training?

A. No sir, not machine shop. Auto mechanics is one
of them and metal work is the other and woodwork is the
other.

Q. The three together make up the machine shop train
ing?

A. There is machinery in each one of them. There is
none designated just as a machine shop course.
[fol. 114] Q. The present set-up in metal work, automo
bile mechanics and woodwork considered together elim
inate the complaint about your machine shop work, is
that right?

A. I think it does.
Q. You think that is so. Now, on this automobile

mechanic proposition. As counsel stated the question to
you this morning, he stated that the Senior High School
carried a course of instructions or offered a course of in
structions in auto mechanics. You are assuming that that
is a fact, aren’t you, in the answer you gave him?

A. That is right.

144

Q. Do you know that the Senior High School is con
ducing a course in auto mechanics for the white school
students?

A. No, I don’t.
Q. Do you know what that situation is?
A. No, I don’t. I know that there is a shop, not over at

the Senior High School but somewhere on the south side
where some veterans, white veterans, take that training in
auto mechanics.

Q. Do you know where the money comes from to carry
that work on?

A. I am assuming that it comes from the same place
where our veterans come from—from the Veterans Ad
ministration.

Q. Not out of any school funds whatever?
A. That is the way ours run.

[fol. 115] Q. The selection of students is not made by the
school, local school authorities, at all, are they?

A. Not for the veterans class.
Q. They are selected by somebody else entirely?
A. That is right.
Q. The only connection of the school system with this

veteran training proposition is they have asked you as
a favor to them, and as volunteers to administer the work,
isn’t that right?

A. That is right.
Q. So, as a matter of fact, the white students have a

complaint against the colored students on the question of
auto mechanics, don’t they? You have something that
the white schools don’t have, isn’t that right?

Booker: Object to that. He started out by saying that
he didn’t know what the white schools had.

The Court: I know it. I think they are just talking.
Go ahead.

Mr. Woods: We didn’t file a cross-complaint.
The Court: I didn’t think you did.
Q. Professor Greene, it is true, isn’t it, that your cur

riculum, that is the courses to be offered and number of

145

courses and all, is directly connected with the total en
rollment of the school, isn’t that right?
[fol. 116] A. That is right.

Q. In other words, if Lincoln High School had an en
rollment of a thousand instead of an enrollment of 264,
there would probably be a number of additional courses
offered, isn’t that right?

A. Yes sir.
Q. The larger the number of students, the more apt

you are to have a demand for some particular courses or
requests for it?

A. That is one of the factors in selecting courses for
schools, the demand and needs and so forth.

Q. The mere fact that a school with an enrollment of
264 or say 300, might not offer some courses that is offered
by a school with an enrollment of 1200 or 1600, wouldn’t
necessarily indicate whether or not—wouldn’t necessarily
indicate an indiscriminatory practice against the smaller
school?

A. No sir, the demand is going to be in proportion to
your numbers, naturally.

Q. Something was said this morning—you were asked
something about auditoriums. Isn’t that same thing true of
the size of auditoriums? Isn’t it generally the rule that a
school auditorium will have a seating capacity of approxi
mately the number of students enrolled in that school?

A. That is the general practice.
[fol. 117] Q. If Lincoln High, with an enrollment of 300
we will say, has an auditorium with a seating capacity of
300, that would not be out of line?

A. No sir. That is what you base it on, the size of your
school enrollment.

Q. Professor Greene, you were not here when Lincoln
High attempted to have a football team, were you?

A. I was not.
Q. You don’t know the history of that?
A. No sir.
Q. You don’t know whether the Negro football teams

played their competitive games with other schools on the
Grizzly stadium at the Senior white school?

146

A. I wasn’t here during the time. I have no first hand
knowledge of it.

Q. Do you have any knowledge of it?
A. I have been told that they did.
Tate: I don’t think he could state that, Your Honor,

just what he has been told.
The Court: I know that. He can show it by somebody

else. Go ahead.
Q. Professor Greene, you were asked about your knowl

edge of the activities or the actions of Mr. Chris Corbin in
appearing before a group of colored ministers this morning.
I want you to tell the Court whether or not Mr. Corbin or
Mr. Ramsey or Mr. Orr, President of the School Board or
[fol. 118] any member of the school board attempted to in
fluence you in any way whatever in connection with this
lawsuit or in connection with this program other than to
seek your advice?

A. That is right. That is the only respect in which
they have discussed it with me.

Q. The only part you played in Mr. Corbin’s activity
was to respond to his request to take you and introduce you
to the group of ministers?

A. That is right, and to introduce him to the ministers.
That was the end of my row.

Q. And in presenting whatever it was he presented to
the ministers, he merely outlined to them the program,
which the school board had in mind?

A. That is right.
Q. Both as to buildings, equipment and additional cur

ricula, is that right?
A. That is right. Just told them what the school board

had in mind.
Q. Just told them what the school board had in mind?
A. That is right.
Q. A ll of that was before this suit was filed but after

the petition was circulated, is that right?
A. Yes, sir, that is right.
Q. You were questioned about music, the absence of

music—instruction in music in the colored school. Do you

147

ffol. 119] know of any instruction in music that is carried
on in the Senior High that isn’t carried on equally—I mean
in the white school that isn’t carried equally in the colored
schools?

A. I don’t know what music is given over there.
Q. Do you know Miss Opal Park?
A. I do.
Q. Doesn’t she train your Glee Club, your singing

classes in the colored schools?
A. She supervises them, yes sir.
Q. Supervises them?
A. Yes sir, in all four.
Q. Just like she does in the public schools?
A. That is right.
Q. Now, your musical efforts down there are divided

into two phases, you have a Glee Club?
A. That is right.
Q. Then you have your music classes?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Your music classes, what do they do besides sing?
A. You have reference to Lincoln High?
Q. Yes.
A. We are only giving Glee Club music and some band

music now.
Q. Glee Club and band music?
A. Yes sir.

[fob 120] Q. You have the same general supervisor of all
that that the white school has?

A. That is right.
Q. That is Miss Clark, who is supervisor over the en

tire system?
A. That is right.
Q. Do you know Miss Mary Ella Clayton, the school

nurse?
A. I do.
Q. She exercises supervision over the health efforts of

the colored schools the same as she does the whites?

148

A. She does.
Q. In other words her job is over the system and not

over just the white schools?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You made your comments on your teacher force,

classified them as qualified in all respects, meeting the re
quirements of the State Department of Education and the
North Central Association of Schools and Colleges. Tell
the Court who selects those teachers. Who makes the se
lection of your faculty?

A. I make the recommendations to the superintendent.
Q. You make the recommendations to the superintend

ent?
A. That is right.
Q. He usually contracts with your selections?
A. Yes sir, he always has.
Q. I believe I asked you if you considered your faculty,

the faculties of your four colored schools, fully capable of
[fol. 121] carrying on the work that you are attempting to
do for your colored students?

A. I do.
Q. Professor Greene, are you familiar with any of the

white school buildings in the city? You were shown some
pictures this morning taken at the Senior High and Junior
High, but are you familiar with the buildings themselves?
You have been in them?

A. I have been in most of them, several of them.
Q. Have you been in the Junior High?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Do you know what the condition of the Junior High

is from the standpoint of fire safety, from the standpoint
of sanitation, that includes the toilets, cafeteria, the halls
from the standpoint of light, and accessibility and all of
that. Are you familiar with those things?

A. I am familiar with all except the cafeteria. I haven’t
been in the cafeteria.

Q. You are familiar with the other things?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Including fire escapes and all of that, are you?

149

A. Yes sir.
Q. In those particulars, tell the Court in your opinion

how Lincoln High School compares with the white Junior
High School.
[fol. 122] A. Well, as far as the lighting is concerned, I
think that the lighting over at the Junior High School is
perhaps just as inadequate as the lighting at Lincoln High
School, and the toilet facilities in some instances at Junior
High School are less accessible than the toilet facilities at
Lincoln High School. As far as the stairways and so
forth, are concerned, those at Junior High School
are much wider than those at our High School, but in
comparison, when it comes to the time of exit in case of
fire drill, etc. our timing is very brief in comparison with
the larger school, Junior High School. We are able to
evacuate the school in thirty-five minutes.

Mr. Shaw: Seconds.
A. Seconds, I am sorry.
Q. If you were asked to compare those two buildings

from the standpoint of fire safety, which would you say
was the superior school?

Tate: We object to that. I believe that is entirely out
of his field of application. He is an expert in the field
of education.

The Court: He is familiar with it. It goes to the
weight of his testimony. Go ahead. Let’s rush along and
get through.

A. Will you state that question again, please?
Q. I said from the standpoint of fire hazards or safety,

[fol. 123] which school would you say would have the
advantage, Lincoln High or the Junior High for whites?

A. Well, I am not quite sure that I could say specifi
cally. If I had a choice I had rather be responsible for
getting those out of Lincoln High than Junior High, know
ing that building better than Junior High, of course.

Q. From the standpoint of toilet arrangements and
things of that sort in addition to the accessibility, you say
the standpoint of accessibility is with Lincoln High. From
the [standpoing] of sanitation.

150

A. When I mentioned that about toilets, I had occasion
to go to one. I had to go down a long corridor.

Q. From the standpoint of sanitation—
A. I had to go down a long hall.
Q. Does Lincoln High enjoy any particular advantage

over the Junior High?
A. I am not sure that I can answer that question.
Q. You are not a builder, are you? You couldn’t com

pare one building with another from the standpoint of
structure, sound, structure and all that?

A. No sir. Not too much. Calls for a little more tech
nical knowledge than I have.

Q. Professor Greene, are you familiar with the pro
gram completed and planned for Lincoln High and Howard
colored schools?

A. Yes, I am.
[fol. 124] Q. The Howard school is practically ready for
occupancy, isn’t it?

A. Yes sir.
Booker: I think we stated that Howard elementary

schools are not considered in this lawsuit.
Mr. Woods: No stipulation to that effect.
The Court: Except just as an overall proposition, I

think the Court ought to have any information as to the
overall situation, because I don’t think you can put your
finger on any one particular act or one particular happen
ing. In other words, the Court wouldn’t want to base an
opinion upon any one particular thing, but I would like
to have a general overall picture. A ll right, go ahead.

Q. You state that you are familiar with the program.
You know what has been completed and what is now un
der way and what is in contemplation?

A. Yes sir.
Q. You know all of the program?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. We will confine this question to Lincoln High.

When the program is completed there as you understand
it to be, tell the Court how Lincoln High School as an
educational plant, as an educational facility, building, lay

151

out, light, heat and equipment, will compare with the
general run of schools in the district—white schools in
[fol. 125] the district?

Tate: I f the Court please, we object to that question
on this basis. This lawsuit is being tried as to the rela
tive equality of those schools at the time the cause of ac
tion arose and at the time the matter is tried.

The Court: Yes, but I might as well say to you, you are
asking for an injunction. It is true you are asking for a
declaratory judgment. Whether or not an injunction is
granted is going to depend largely—just like Judge Lem-
ley disposed of that Dewitt case; it is going to depend
largely upon what the board is doing now, that is, whether
or not they have a realization of their responsibilities.
The law is perfectly clear on the duty of a school board
and the duty of a state to furnish substantially equal op
portunities. I want to see whether or not they are or
whether or not they are arbitrarily refusing. If they
are, they ought to be dealt with in no uncertain terms—
if they are not—in other words, a Court has got to render
a judgment in this case and I don’t want to do an injustice
to the school district any more than I want to do an in
justice to the plaintiff. Each one has its rights and I think
that is material for the Court to know and I am going to
overrule the objection.
[fol. 126] Tate: A ll right, sir.

(Here the reporter read the last question.)
A. I think it will be better than some of the white

schools in the district.
Q. Better than some of the white schools in the district?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are talking about the physical plant and equip

ment?
A. The physical plant, improved lighting and equip

ment, etc.
Q. You are familiar with the plan for an improved or

expanded curriculum for Lincoln High?
A. I am.
Q. As a matter of fact, most of it is already in effect?
A. That is true, a large part of it.

152

Q. The rest of it will be as soon as the equipment is
moved in and the building is completed?

A. That is right.
Q. When that plan is carried into full fruition, tell the

Court in your own opinion how, from a curricula stand
point, Lincoln High School will compare with the white
high schools here, taking into consideration the difference
in enrollment.

A. If I might make my comparison on this basis. I
am not sure that I know of everything that they have in
connection with the white schools, but as far as our needs
at Lincoln School, it very well meets our needs. We base
our curriculum on the number of students and as to their
[foi. 127] interests. As far as the needs that have been
revealed to us already, it will be meeting those needs when
those things are done.

Q. Now, I w ill ask you: before this expanded cur
riculum was put into effect and arranged for, did Super
intendent Ramsey and Corbin confer with you as to the
needs of the school and what you thought ought to be put
in there?

A. Yes sir, all along.
Q. Did they follow your advice and suggestions in that

respect?
A. That is right.
Q. I w ill ask you if you are now personally satisfied

with the situation down there, both from the standpoint
of improvement as completed and contemplated and also
the expanded curriculum as meeting the present needs of
your school?

Booker: I object.
The Court: Objection sustained. It is not whether he

is satisfied, it is whether or not the law is satisfied.
Mr. Woods: Well, of course I probably used the wrong

word—the word satisfied.
Q. But in your opinion as an educator and as an ex

perienced principal of high schools, tell the Court whether
or not in your opinion the curriculum as now expanded
and put into effect and as immediately contemplated,

153

leaves any room for complaint that the colored high school
[fol. 128] children are being discriminated against in
favor of the white school children?

A. Not on the basis of any information that I have at
present.

Q. Professor Greene, the school board and the school
administrators first began talking to you about these plans
several years ago, did they not?

A. Yes, about three or four years ago.
Q. At one time they contemplated building a new Lin

coln High School?
A. That is right. That was the original—
Q. Instead of a new grade school?
A. That is right.
Q. Can you tell the Court if you know why the board

decided to change its plans and build the new grade
school instead?

A. Yes sir, I can give their answer to that. I was
called into a meeting of representatives of the board and
the superintendent, oh, I think maybe a year—between a
year and two years ago, and the original set-up was de
scribed as a five-year plan for the expansion of the plans
for the schools in Fort Smith. Listed in that was a new
and enlarged Negro high school, and a discussion had
come into the picture of concern whether we could have a
high school, whether we should have a high school or the
elementary school, and there was a general admission that
[fol. 129] both were needed; that the elementary school
was needed and that the high school was needed. We dis
cussed it pro and con and came to the point where I was
asked which was the greater need at the time and I said
from the standpoint of my examination of the functions
of each one of those schools, I felt that they were both
needed but the elementary need was greater than the high
school, since I was told that we were to choose one or the
other, only one was to be available. I committed myself
to the elementary school.

Q. You understood the plan was to rebuild one and
renovate the other?

154

A. That is right.
Q. Do you know whether or not the building of the sea

wall had anything to do with influencing the board in
deciding to keep Lincoln High School?

A. Yes sir, that was brought out in the discussion that
we wouldn’t be subjected to those floods as we had been
in the past with the construction of the sea wall.

Q. In other words, with the sea wall it was possible
to recondition and enlarge and expand Lincoln High School
on its present site?

A. That is right. That was brought out.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

Re-Direct Examination.
Tate:

[fol. 130] Q. Mr. Greene, you testified to Mr. Woods’
question that you and the teachers are members of the
Classroom Teacher’s Association, did you?

A. That the teachers are?
Q. Yes.
A. I am not.
Q. And that you all attended meetings together?
A. Not under the heading of those organizations. We

do attend meetings together.
Q. Do you attend meetings together as members of the

Classroom Teacher’s Association?
A. No, not as members of the Classroom Teacher’s

Association.
Q. You don’t; you are not a member?
A. I am not a member.
Q. Do you know of any of your teachers who ever

did attend such meetings or who do now?
A. You mean classroom teachers?
Q. Yes.
A. No, I do not.
Q. You gave testimony as to your training to do the

work that you are now doing and you gave testimony
as to your experience and that training and experience has

155

largely been along the secondary high school level, hasn’t
it?

A. Both fields.
Q. Did you ever teach in an elementary school?

[fol. 131] A. Yes, I did.
Q. Have you ever had courses in teaching in elemen

tary schools?
A. I have, and I taught such courses.
Q. Have you had courses in administration of second

ary schools?
A. I have.
Q. And have you had courses in the administration of

elementary schools?
A. I have.
Q. To your knowledge, Mr. Greene, is there a principal

of any other high school in Fort Smith, Arkansas who is
also a principal of one or more elementary schools?

A. No.
Q. You are the only such principal. Now, you spoke

of industrial arts and trades, saying that the work that you
give is on the industrial arts level. W ill you please dis
tinguish minutely for us the difference between the in
dustrial arts level and the trades level?

A. Yes. On an industrial arts level, the time factor is
one of the chief differences.

Q. What do you mean by the time factor?
A. The student is only required to attend these classes

for only one period a day and the training is less exten
sive. It is more on an exploratory—It is practical. It is
more exploratory rather than specialized.

Q. In other words, they just get a smattering of a
whole lot of little things?
[fol. 132] A. That is right.

Q. They don’t come out professionally prepared for any
thing?

A. No, it doesn’t propose to do that, not in the indus
trial. The industrial arts courses don’t. The trade courses
do.

156

Q. You have a course in prospect, at least, in journa
lism?

A. No.
Q. Didn’t you so testify that your English teacher—
The Court: No, just teaching it incidentally with his

English.
Q. Are we going to say you have journalism or don’t?
A. We don’t have it as a specific course.
Q. Now, testifying as to the relative cleanliness of the

Junior High School and the Lincoln High School, are you
now testifying that the Lincoln High School is more clean
than the Junior High School for white children?

A. I didn’t testify as to cleanliness.
Q. Testifying as to safety, with regard to those two

schools, are you now testifying that the Lincoln School is
more safe than the Junior High School for white children?

A. I didn’t testify to that.
Q. Testifying as to cleanliness of the toilets, in answer

to counsel’s question, you gave testimony that the toilets
at the Lincoln School were more accessible than they are
at the Junior High School. By that, you did not mean to
[fol. 133] testify that the toilets at the Lincoln High
School were cleaner than they are at the white school?

A. No, I didn’t intend to do that.
The Court: Don’t you think all that question of clean

liness depends entirely upon the pupils and the superin
tendent that they have?

Tate: Yes sir.
The Court: If you don’t clean your own bathroom up,

it seems you can’t get in there. You can put a bunch
of toilets in here; if they didn’t receive proper attention,
nobody could come in here.

Tate: That is right.
Q* Now, Professor Greene, counsel discussed with you

your program as complete and planned. Is it not true
that the program of your school as it is now stands largely
in prospect?

A. Part of it, yes.
Q. Largely so. Do you say no to that?

157

A. No, I am not saying definitely.
Q. Let’s put it possibly. How much of it is now com

plete?
A. As far as the courses are concerned, we are giving

all the courses that we are planning to give to a limited
degree, because of the lack of equipment and finished
buildings, etc.

Q. Will you testify as to what courses you are giving
this school year that you did not give last year?

A. We are giving French that we didn’t give last year,
and typing.
[fol. 134] Q. That is French I?

A. Yes sir.
Q. You are not giving II and III?
A. No, because they haven’t had I yet.
Q. So then II and III are in prospect?
A. They will follow.
Q. Go ahead.
A. Then in the commercial field, we have typing, short

hand.
Q. Typing and shorthand I?
A. That is right.
Q. Your Typing II, Typing III, Typing IV and V are in

prospect?
A. The other advanced courses; I don’t know about

them. They are taking the first year work this year and
the second years’ work next year.

Q. And the same is true of shorthand?
A. That is right.
Q. Then what else?
A. Accounting.
Q. You are now giving Accounting I?
A. That is right.
Q. In the high schools they give Accounting III, V and

VII? Those courses are in prospect, aren’t they?
A. I haven’t gone that far into the accounting part of it.
Q. What other courses are you adding this year;

physics?

158

[fol. 135] A. Physics is given in alternate years. Chem
istry is the one that hasn’t been given,

Q. You testified as to the Howard School—
A. I didn’t finish naming the courses. I didn’t name

the auto mechanics that is being offered this year that
hadn’t been offered heretofore.

Q. Is that about all?
A. Yes.
Q. A ll right, sir. The rest of it is in prospect?
A. That is right.
Q. And it is in prospect as to your shop? A ll of your

shop courses, because at this moment you have no shop
facilities at all, is that right?

A. That is right.
Q. Not even for your auto mechanic courses?
A. That is right.
Q. You have no laboratories for your science courses?
A. That is right.
Q. That is something in the future?
A. Yes sir.
Q. As to the Howard School, that school is now an

empty shell, isn’t it?
A. It is an empty building, yes sir.
Q. As to your cafeteria, do you have any future plans

about that?
[fol. 136] A. For Lincoln?

Q. Yes.
A. No, we don’t. Not in the building.
Q. As to your printing shop, do you have any future

plans about that?
A. None whatever.
Q. As to a swimming pool, do you have any future plans

as to that?
A. No sir.
Q. As to an athletic field, do. you have any future plans

as to that?
A. No, not for Lincoln School as such.

159

Q. Now, you testified that you were consulted fre
quently by Dr. Ramsey and the other members of the
board as to broadening your curriculum and you said that
that had been true over a period of years, didn’t you?

A. That is right.
Q. How does it happen, sir, that you decided to ab

ruptly in 1949 to expand your program? It was done on
your advice, wasn’t it?

A. I imagine so.
Q. How does it happen that you advised such an ex

panded program this year and you have not done it during
the other seven years of your term here?

A. That isn’t true. We have been advising and asking
for some things along over a period of several years.
[fol. 137] Q. Oh, you have?

A. That is right.
Q. And you didn’t get those things?
A. No, not then.
Q. Did you testify just a minute ago that in your de

mands on the school board, you had received the fullest co
operation and that you were entirely satisfied with the
cooperation that you had gotten?

A. I didn’t use the word satisfied at all. I said gen
erally speaking, we have gotten what we have asked for.

Q. Now, you are saying that that isn’t true?
A. No, I still say it is true, generally speaking we have

gotten what we asked for.
Q. Well, I will have to ask you over again. How does

it happen that you got such wonderful cooperation in 1949?
Had you asked for a new shop building before?

A. No, not a shop building as such.
Q. You are getting one?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Can you explain that, sir?
A. Well, yes and no. I can explain it from this stand

point, that when we have discussed these things in the
past, one of the chief obstacles has been lack of finances,
and then as soon as the district became able, a lot of things
[fol. 138] would be provided. Among them were these im

160

provements. For instance, chemistry was offered at one
time but we needed an additional room for the science
laboratory, on the suggestion of the State Department of
Education. We have discussed that for a period of several
years. They promised as soon as more space was avail
able, we could have a science laboratory. Of course, space
is being provided now. The same thing is true about
foreign languages.

Q. You had recommended those in the past?
A. We discussed foreign languages for some time. Of

course, lack of space wasn’t in connection with the foreign
language but it was definitely a fact in connection with the
sciences.

Q. You expressed virtual satisfaction with your school
as now proposed, when those proposals are brought into
realization. Will you be satisfied to have your school op
erate without an athletic program?

A. I haven’t expressed—I will never be satisfied as long
as I am in the teaching profession.

Q. With reference to your auditorium, you testified that
the auditorium should be based on the student body size
and that the question whether courses would be added to
your curriculum or not, would depend upon the number of
demands therefor. Is that right?

A. That is right.
[fol. 139] Q. That is generally true in educational policies,
that is correct, isn’t it?

A. Which part of it? There seems like there are two
questions involved there.

Q. Yes sir. I will restate the question. The question of
providing courses on the basis of demand, the number of
people who demand those courses, that is a good policy in
public education?

A. That is one of the factors. That isn’t the only factor.
Q. Now, would it make any difference to you in the ap

plication of that policy in a system where the schools are
segregated as over and against a system where the schools
are integrated?

A. Insofar as the demands and needs are concerned?
Q. Yes sir.

161

A. I still think the demands and needs ought to be com
plied with.

Q. The theory of segregated schools is that the facilities
shall be separate but equal. Are you still contending
under that theory, that a Negro child has to get a number
of other people to join him in allowing him to avail him
self of the separate but equal theory?

A. I didn’t make any contention at all. I said this when
I was questioned just now, that the number of students
that you have—the demand would be in proportion to the
[fol. 140] number of students you have. The more stu
dents you have, the greater the demands are. And this is
the other factor that I had in mind that I didn’t express,
that when it comes to having excessively large number of
small classes, that is a factor you have to reckon with.

Q. If a single Negro student in your school would come
to you and apply for a course which is given in the white
school but is not given in the Negro school, would you feel
that that was sufficient demand to petition the Board of
Education to provide that course?

A. I think his demand deserves his consideration. I
would certainly refer it to the superintendent.

Q. Then you want to change your position, that as to
Negro schools, the question of whether a course will be
provided or not, depends upon the size of the demands?

A. What have you interpreted my position to have
been?

Q. I interpreted your position before this time to be
that, the question of whether a course should be provided
or not depends upon the number of students who requested
the course.

The Court: Isn’t that the policy of all universities, col
leges, high schools and everywhere, white and black and
every other kind?

Tate: No, Your Honor, I don’t believe that is true in
McCabe versus Atchison.
[fol. 141] The Court: I am talking about practical ad
ministration of educational systems. Isn’t that the policy
that is followed everywhere?

Tate: No sir.

162

The Court: A ll right, I won’t argue with you. I just
want you to know I have had some experience in educa
tion myself.

Tate: Yes sir.
The Court: I just want you to know I am personally

familiar with the cases you have referred to. Let’s not
kill too much time. I want to get through with this case.

Tate: Yes sir.
Q. Now, Mr. Greene, you testified that you had been

consulted about the needs for buildings. Did it come to
your attention that in February, 1946, the minutes of the
board revealed that there was a proposal, in the future,
to overhaul the lighting system in the schools; to erect
new buildings, to replace the Belle Grove School, the
Lincoln High School and the Howard Grade School, that
is, the superintendent said, “ the Lincoln and Howard
schools would be housed in a single building on a new
site outside the flooded area” , also in the plan was to
build a new Albert Pike building and a new elementary
school in the southwest part of the city, and a new trades
building in connection with the Senior High School for
[fol. 142] whites and the amortization of elementary schools
for white children and at that time he said, “ that
program would be launched in the year 1953.” Did you
know that?

A. I didn’t know about the two schools. I knew about
a new and enlarged high school.

Q. Did you know that 1953 was the date set for launch
ing that program?

A. I knew it was some years hence. I didn’t know
what year.

Tate: A ll right sir, I think that is all.

Re-Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. You stated in answer to counsel’s question awhile

ago that you did not contemplate having a course in
printing?

A. Yes, I did. I did tell him that we did not contem
plate having a course in printing.

163

Q. Will you tell the Court why?
A. On the basis of my conviction as to how courses

should come into being. I have stated already that I
think there should be some demand for certain courses;
that there should be some need for courses, and there
should be some manifestation of interest in courses on
the part of students. We don’t have any evidence of any
such so far. Nobody has asked about any course in print
ing. Nobody seemed to be interested.
[fol. 143] Q. Is that the advice you gave Mr. Ramsey and
the school board in regard to instituting—

A. Substantially.
Q. In regard to the swimming pool, will you tell the

Court whether or not you consider a swimming pool as ' '
an asset of any substantial value in a school? Does it have
any substantial educational value in a school?

A. I would say that a swimming pool has relative edu
cational value. There are other things that I would ad
vocate in priority to a swimming pool, things that I think
are more important. If we are to get those things, it
wouldn’t be the first thing on my list, but it does have
some educational value but it is relatively small in com
parison to some of the other things that we might have.

Q. In your opinion as an educator, would the presence
of one swimming pool or a swimming pool in one white
school in the Fort Smith system, in the absence of any
similar facility in any of the Negro schools, be any evi
dence of discrimination in favor of the white students as
against the Negro students?

Booker: I think that is a matter for the Court to con
clude.

The Court: Yes, that is one thing wrong with educa
tion. We have spent so much money on foolish things. If
that swimming pool out at the High School was filled up,
all would be better off. It is silly. I am not a member of
[fol. 144] the Board of Directors. I am not criticizing
anybody. We get the cart before the horse so many times.

Witness Excused.

164

Herbert H illiard, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Professor Hillard, will you give the Court your full

name?
A. Herbert Hilliard.
Q. What is your profession?
A. I am a school teacher.
Q. And where do you teach?
A. Lincoln High School.
Q. And you are under the supervision of the Board of

Education of Fort Smith, Arkansas?
A. That is right.
Q. How does it happen that you are here testifying,

Professor?
A. I was [subpoened].
Tate: If the Court please, he was [subpoened] under

Rule 43.
The Court: I understand.
Q. Mr. Hilliard, what courses do you teach?
A. I am a counsellor and a physical education teacher.
Q. Do you now teach any science courses?

[fol. 145] A. I do not teach science.
Q. Where did you receive your education?
A. I received my [Batchelor’s] Degree from Virginia

State College, Petersburg, Virginia. I have twenty-one
graduate hours from Syracuse, New York.

Q. What are those hours?
A. The graduate hours are in guidance. The under

graduate hours are in math and chemistry.
Q. Then your undergraduate degree was in the major

of math.
A. Major of chemistry and minor mathematics.
Q. Now, for a number of years you have taught phys

ical education, is that true?

165

A. That is true.
Q. And what particular training have you acquired for

that?
A. Nine semester hours in physical education and played

football four years.
Q. During the course of your experience at the Lincoln

High School, you taught physical education to both boys
and girls?

A. That is correct.
Q. Would you tell us what the contents of your course

to girls was?
A. I have had no formal training of the teaching of

girls physical education.
Q. So you didn’t have to bother with teaching such

things as ballroom dancing and folk dancing and ballet
[fol. 146] dancing?

A. No, I didn’t teach that.
Q. Now, in your courses in physical education generally,

w ill you tell us what equipment you have in your gym?
A. I had softball equipment, soccer balls, volley ball

equipment, badminton, ping pong and also mats for tum
bling.

Q. Now, do you have an athletic library?
A. We have a portion of the library in the school that

is set aside for athletics.
Q. But what particular subjects do you have or books

do you have that treat on athletics? For instance, do you
have an athletic guide in all sports?

A. Not as such.
Q. Do you have a tumbler’s manual?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have Toby’s Baseball Officiating Manual?
A. No, we don’t have that manual.
Q. Do you have Clairby’s Zone of Defense and Attack

Manual?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have Health and Human Welfare by

Bouchard, Chambers and Murray, or any such authority?

166

A. I don’t recall offhand all the books we have in the
library.

Q. I mean you didn’t have those available to you or
you didn’t have as an athletic instructor?

A. I haven’t put in for those books, such books as you
[fol. 147] mentioned I don’t remember ordering those.

Q. Since your field is mathematics—what what is your
other?

A. Well, now it is mathematics, chemistry and guid
ance.

Q. You don’t mind speaking of your competency as an
athletic director; do you feel you were thoroughly compe
tent to teach athletics?

A. I feel I was competent to teach that. I had nine
semester hours as—I was A ll Southern halfback for three
years and Allstate for one year. I think so.

Q. That brings us back to the original question. Do you
feel competent to have taught young ladies?

A. I don’t.
Q. So that as to those young ladies, they got faulty

training during the time you taught them in physical
training?

A. I wouldn’t like to use the word faulty. I would like
to use the word inadequate.

Q. I would like for you to use that word, sir. What is
the size of your basketball court at the Lincoln High?

A. I don’t know. The basketball court is smaller than
the usual size.

Q. The usual size is 80 x 150 feet, is that correct?
A. That might be correct.
Q. That is the standard size, isn’t it?
A. That might be correct.
Q. And your court is not that size?

[fol. 148] A. No.
Q. So then a boy who practiced basketball with you

in your gym and had to go into a larger official gym to
play a game would be at a handicap, wouldn’t he?

167

A. I will say that I am not the basketball coach. I
don’t coach the basketball. I wouldn’t like to say.

Q. Do you have a wrestling and boxing mat and ring?
A. Yes, we have. We have the mats; we don’t have

the ring.
Q. You don’t have the ring?
A. No.
Q. In your gym do you have lockers and bleachers?
A. There are some portable bleachers that are used in

basketball games.
Q. How many people would they seat?
A. I don’t know; I am afraid to say.
Q. Would you say approximately?
A. I rather not say about the number.
Q. Would they seat a hundred people?
A. They wouldn’t seat a hundred people.
Q. Seat less than a hundred people?
A, Yes sir.
Q. By way of equipment in your gym, do you have leg

pulleys ?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have chest pulleys?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have weights for body building?

[fol. 149] A. No.
Q. Do you have Stallbar benches?
A. No.
Q. Do you have ropes for rope climbing?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have pucks?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have parallel bars, high and low?
A. No.
Q. Do you have long horses?
A. No.
Q. Do you have a heavy training bag?

168

A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have a striking bag?
A. Yes sir
Q. Do you have a striking bag rack?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have stop watches?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have a swimming pool?
A. No.
Q. Do you have an athletic stadium?
A. No.
Q. I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 6. This is the

athletic stadium at the white school. Do you have any
[fol. 150] such facility as that for teaching athletics and
physical education at the Lincoln High School?

A. No.
The Court: That is admitted that they don’t have.
Tate: A ll right, sir.
The Court: I don’t assume they have any at all. I

think that is what they said.
Tate: A ll right, sir.
Q. Now, I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 8. That is the

showers at the Junior High School for girls. Do you have
any such showers as that for your girls at Lincoln High
school?

A. No.
Q. Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 9 which shows the hair dryers

at the Junior High School for white children. Did you have
any such facility as that at your school?

A. No.
Q. This is the dressing room for girls at the Junior

High School. Did you have any such facility as that at
your school?

A. No.
Q. This is a corner of the gymnasium showing the

bleachers at the white Senior High School. Do you have
any such facility as that?

169

A. No.
[fol. 151] Q. Now, in the teaching of your physical educa
tion courses to your young girls, what activities did you go
through, such as for instance, you had a volley ball team
and a softball team. Now, by way of calisthenics, what did
you do?

A. Calisthenics were very, very limited. They did some
tumbling. They went through some forward rolls from a
dive, as far as they went there. They played small games;
they played baseball; played softball; played badminton,
ping pong. We taught them to play soccer and taught them
to play tennis; taught them to play volley ball.

Q. At that time you had a tennis court or two. You
had two tennis courts?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you have any tennis courts now?
A. No sir.
Q. When you played outdoors did you have any sort of

uniform playing grounds? Did you have a real softball
diamond?

A. Yes. Our softball diamond was laid off with a
transit.

Q. Did you have a baseball field?
A. Softball.
Q. And, of course, you did not teach them such things

as folk dancing, ballroom dancing, ballet dancing and that
sort of thing?

A. No.
Q. They had no chance for creative effort in that field?

[fol. 152] A. Not from me.
Tate: We pass the witness.

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Professor Hilliard, you are not the instructor in the

girl’s physical education classes now, are you?
A. No.
Q. There is a woman teacher?
A. That is correct.

170

Q. Your tennis courts that you used to have there are
now occupied by some of these new buildings?

A. That is correct.
Q. And you understand that in the school board build

ing plan new tennis courts are to be built at another spot
on the Lincoln High campus?

A. That is right. I was told that.
Q. That is part of the program?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You understand that the tennis courts will be built

at another spot?
A. That is correct.
Q. You stated in reply to counsel’s questions, that cer

tain books that would have presumably been useful to you
in your instruction work that you did not order. You could
have ordered them if you had wanted to?
[fol. 153] A. That is right. I got those that I ordered.

Q. And you understood that generally speaking, you
had the right to and were requested to call upon the school
board through your principal for any equipment that you
might need or want?

A. That is correct.
Q. Did you understand that?
A. That is correct.
Q. Did you ever call on the school board through the

principal for any of these things that you have stated that
you didn’t have?

A. There is a difference of mind among physical educa
tion teachers about apparatus. I don’t like apparatus in
gymn courses other than the mats.

Q. As a matter of fact, you had the equipment that in
your opinion you needed to [cary] out your particular work
as far as your male students were concerned?

A. That is right.
Q. So far as the girls were concerned, you kinda felt-

out of place teaching them?
A. That is correct.
Q. And the board, the school board, evidently has now

come around to your own opinion on that?

171

A. That is correct.
Q. And has employed some female?

[fol. 154] A. That is right.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness excused.

A. H. M iller, called as a witness on behalf of the plaintiffs,
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Professor Miller, would you state your name?
A. My name is Arthur H. Miller.
Q. What is your business, sir?
A. Teaching in the school—Fort Smith School District,

Lincoln High School.
Q. What courses do you teach?
A. I am a trade industrial arts instructor.
Q. Why are you here to testify?
A. I was [subpoened] here.
Tate: He was [subpoened] by us, Your Honor pleases.
Q. Now, what is the difference between industrial arts

and the ordinary iron work courses?
A. Will you state your question again, please?
Q. What is the difference between industrial arts and

your ordinary shop courses?
A. I assume you mean the ordinary shop courses have

reference to the trade courses. In industrial art, you can
[fol. 155] cite various differences. First, one has to do
with the amount of time spent in each course. Industrial
arts course is usually one period a day. Your trade courses
are usually three hours a day. Another factor, industrial
arts is on an exploratory basis. In other words, general
education. The trade work has to do with trade for em
ployment.

Q. You don’t teach trade for employment?

172

A. We have taught the building trade in the school ever
since I have been there. We have made effort to teach
the building trade to the boys.

Q. Now, give us some testimony as to your training.
Where did you go to school?

A. I attended school at A. & M. Pine Bluff, Arkansas.
Q. As a student, what was your major?
A. Major in mechanical arts, general woodworking and

building construction.
Q. Did that embrace teaching the metal trades?
A. No, it didn’t.
Q. So you really aren’t equipped to teach metal trades?
A. I am not.
Q. Now, did that include teaching brick masonry?
A. Yes it did, generally.
Q. Industrial interior decorating?
A. Yes it did, generally. A ll that is involved around the

[fol. 156] building trades.
Q. Now, in teaching shop courses, what activities did

you engage in? What did the students do each semester
you covered, what in their teaching?

A. On the industrial arts level, we covered mostly gen
eral woodworking.

Q. In the first semester?
A. That is right.
Q. Tell what you touched the first.
A. Gave to them the basic fundamental, the application

of tools, making fundamental joints as applied to general
woodworking.

Q. Tell us what tools you had in your shop.
A. At what time, sir?
Q. Well, the shop was discontinued at the end of last

school year, wasn’t it?
A. That is right.
Q. At the time your shop closed, what tools did you

have in it?
A. If I recall correctly, I believe we had eight wood

working machines.

173

Q. Eight woodworking machines?
A. Yes, I would class them. Had a grinder, two wood

lathes, one shaper, one jointer, one drill press, bandsaw
and table saw.
[fob 157] Q. Were all of those instruments hooked up
and ready for work?

A. At the time school closed?
Q. Yes.
A. No, not all of them.
Q. Had they been hooked up and ready for work at

any time?
A. At some time previous.
Q. During the past school year?
A. Yes, they have.
Q. Why did you discontinue to use them?
A. Well, they needed repair—needed attention—work

ing over.
Q. I see. So actually those machines were just paper

machines—they were on paper—but they weren’t actual,
were they?

A. One of the lathes was actual. Well, I would say
partial use. It wasn’t complete. Could do some work on
it. The other inoperative altogether.

Q. Did you have chisels for wood turning?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. You had complete chisels for wood turning?
A. Yes sir.
Q. So you could do grooving and that sort of thing?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did your students have any on-the-job training?
A. On-the-job training?

[fol. 158] Q. Yes sir.
A. Day students, no.
Q. No on-the-job training at all?
A. Not for the day students.
Q. What did you teach them the second semester?

That was first semester work?

174

A. Generally speaking somewhat of an overlapping—
continuation of your training. As we advance, we go
further into making a small project which would be
simply an application of the joints that they learned and
from that we go into more complicated projects—larger
projects.

Q. Did you actually build anything that called for the
application of jointing? Did you just make the joints
and teach them how or did you build something?

A. Yes, we did,
Q. What did you build?
A. Simple furniture. This is on industrial arts, coffee

tables, shelves and things like that. Perhaps others, I
can’t recall just now.

Q. Could your shop have turned out a complete
stuffed chair with arms and leather back and so on?

A. No.
Q. You could not have done a thing like that?
A. No.
Q. Could your shop have made the tables that are

used in the drafting—I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 25.
[fol. 159] That is the drafting room of the Senior High
School. Now, could your shop have made tables of that
sort?

A. Yes, we could have.
Q. Did you actually make them?
A. No, not of that type or that sort.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 19 which is the ma

chine shop at the Senior High School for white children.
Did you have a shop comparable to that?

A. No, we did not.
Q. Did you have any of those machines in your place

at all?
A. As I recognize there, no, I did not.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 20 which is the

woodwork shop at the Senior High School for white chil
dren. Did you have a shop equal to or comparable to that?

A. No, we didn’t.

175

Q. A ll right, sir. Now, in your industrial arts work,
did you have general drafting for trade drafting and archi
tecture? Did you have a general course in drafting that
would lead to the trade of drafting and architecture?

A. We gave a basic course in drafting, more or less on
industrial arts level. Couldn’t say that it would altogether
prepare a student for building trades.

Q. He just got a little introduction to drafting?
A. Yes. May I come in with this? On building trades

we give a Type V training. In this training we assume
[fol. 160] the boy will get most of his theory as it applies
to the job. The time that he needs it, and we have no
formal course set up in architectural drawing. However,
he will have a knowledge of reading blueprints enough
to build a house but he will not be a prepared architect.
Doesn’t have time in that particular set-up.

Q. In other words, you have one of these sort of fic
tional courses, it is a name but there is no actuality be
hind it. Is that correct?

A. Well, I wouldn’t care to answer it yes or no. I
wouldn’t like to make a comment on that.

Q. Well, it is the truth, isn’t it?
A. I don’t care to answer it like that. According to

the State Department they have two types of programs
set up. Type B and A. However I w ill answer the ques
tion this way. We have not been able to do an effective
job in our building trades heretofore. I will put it like
that.

Q. Thank you, sir. Now, did you have a course in the
study of metal work and designs, copper, brass and pew
ter?

A. No, we did not.
Q. This will, of course, give a foundation for training

in heavy metal work, occupations, wouldn’t it?
A. Yes, it would.
Q. So they were entirely wanting in their foundation

for heavy metal trades, that is your students were?
[fol. 161] A. Yes.

Q. Did you have a study of leather work, such as desk
seats and leather purses?

176

A. No, we did not.

Q. Did you have a study in ceramics?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you offer ceramics in your industrial courses?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you have any course that dealt with stone

polishing and jewelry work?
A. No.
Q. Such as would lead to the making of costume jew

elry?
A. No. May I make a comment, please?
Q. Yes.
A. We made a tentative provision for that to the ex

tent of having, not industrial arts, but a drafting club.
This is after school hours on a volunteer basis. I volun
teered to do that at the request of the students.

Q. The students were actually interested in such a
course?

A. That is right.
Q. The only way you could give such instruction was to

give it after hours?
A. Yes, I didn’t have the time.
Q. Did you make their request known to the principal?

[fol. 162] A. Yes sir.
Q. What did he do?
A. He cooperated, encouraged me to go ahead and do

what I could with them.
Q. To your knowledge did he inform the Board of

Education that there was such a demand?
A. I have no such knowledge.
Q. Did you have a course in the study of commercial

arts and display work leading to courses in advertising,
window decoration, including poster work, show cards?

A. No such formal course.
Q. You had no such course. Did you have a course in

the study of oil and water colors and other art products?
A. Not to any extent.

177

Q. Now, on your experience as a teacher and educator,
would, in your opinion, a student who graduated from your
shop course have had equal occupational opportunities and
advantages to a student who enjoyed the courses that I
have just detailed to you and which you admitted you
didn’t have?

A. Would he? State that question again, please.
Q. A student who finished your course, without having

had the opportunity of taking these courses, when he grad
uated, would be have equal training and have enjoyed
equal educational opportunities and advantages of a child
[fol. 163] who fattened] a school in the industrial arts
where these courses were available?

A. No.
Mr. Woods: Just a minute. The defendant objects to

that. He is assuming that all of these courses that he is
talking about were taught in the white school.

The Court: I think it would be [admissable] on that as
sumption. I don’t know whether those courses are offered
here or not in the Senior High School. If they weren’t,
of course, out the window it goes.

Mr. Woods: Our objection w ill be entered now.
The Court: I am going to overrule the objection tenta

tively, but it may materialize. It may become entirely
proper. Go ahead and answer the question.

Q. You may answer the question.
A. If I understood you correctly, I would say no.
Q. His opportunities would not be the same?
A. They would not be equal or the same.
Q. Now, at the present time, Professor, what courses

are you teaching? I mean with your shop situation, what
it is now. You have no shop in which to teach courses.
What are you instructing your students in now?

A. We are giving them mostly theory now.
[fol. 164] Q. They are getting no application?

A. We could hardly give any application.
Q. At this moment you have no shop facilities what

ever?
A. Not for use.
Tate: We pass the witness.

178

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Professor Miller, do you know when those shop

facilities referred to in counsel’s last question will be
completed and ready for use by you?

A. Do I know when they will be completed?
Q. Yes, can you give the Court an idea?
A. You asked me if I know. I actually don’t know. I

have a knowledge that it w ill be soon or in the near
future.

Q. Well, say thirty days?
A. I wouldn’t like to set the date. It could be next

year and it could be in the next thirty days.
Q. But those facilities are in process?
A. They are near completion from my observation than

they were when they first started.
Q. What do you say will be the adequacy of those

facilities when completed?
A. I w ill say the adequacy is much improved over that

of last—I would like to say, if I may, that this is some of
[fol. 165] my suggestions and recommendations, what I
feel like should be the minimum requirement or minimum
needs. I consider these minimum needs. Other needs I
am aware of, and should be, if possible, taken care of.

Q. I f I understand your statement now is, when these
facilities are completed, ready for occupancy, that that will
meet the minimum needs of your department?

A. That is from my observation.
Q. You say your boys in woodwork—is it woodwork

that they have no on-the-job training?
A. We have no on-the-job training for day students.
Q. Is it your understanding that the white high school

students have on-the-job training in woodwork and metal
work?

A. I can’t verify that.
Q. You worked with the architect, did you not, in lay«

ing out the plans for the improvements that are now being
made at Lincoln High School?

179

A. Yes, I did.
Q. You were consulted by the architect in the formula

tion of those plans?
A. That is true.
Q. In a great many respects, if not in all respects, they

accepted your advice as to what they should be?
A. That is true.
Q. Now, in answer to one of counsel’s questions, you

stated that in your opinion, that one of your students
[fol. 166] completing the shop work that you are now teach
ing, would not come out from under your training as a
a thoroughly qualified and prepared to do work at some
profession, which that is supposed to fit him for, as white
students coming out from the training that they are sup
posed to receive?

A. I don’t believe I said that.
The Court: He never went that far.
Mr. Woods: I thought he said that.
The Court: No, he just said in answer to the question

of counsel, that if a man came out, his training with the
facilities that he was presently using, wouldn’t be as well
qualified as one coming out from training with all of those
other things enumerated. Of course, the answer ob
viously was no.

Q. When these facilities that are soon to be available
to you and to your department, now, when they are sup
plied and used by you, employed by you in the training of
these boys that take those shop courses, in your opinion,
when they come out from under your tuition, will they be
as well prepared as the white boys or will they have had
the opportunity to become as well prepared as the white
boys that have enjoyed these facilities that were enu
merated to you by counsel?

A. I don’t know whether I can answer that question
definitely.

The Court: I think I can answer that question. If you
[fol. 167] just tell me what is being taught in the white
school and what is being taught down there. Let me an
swer that.

180

Mr. Woods: Yes, you w ill have that information from
other witnesses.

Q. I might ask this witness if he has visited the shop
facilities of the Senior High School?

A. Yes, I have.
Q. You have seen what they have there?
A. I have seen some of what they have there.
Q. When the facilities that are now being prepared for

you at the Lincoln High School have been completed and
equipped, when you take into consideration the number
of your enrollment at Lincoln High and the enrollment in
your classes, do you think the facilities that you will then
have at Lincoln High will be substantially as good as the
facilities that they have at the Senior High?

A. I haven’t observed it from that angle.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness Excused.

W. E. Hunzicker, called as a witness on behalf of the plain
tiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. W ill you give your name to the Court, please?

[fol. 168] A. Walter E. Hunzicker.
Q. And what is your profession, sir?
A. I am a shop instructor.
Q. And you are employed by the Fort Smith Board of

Education?
A. That is correct.
Q. As a teacher in the Fort Smith Senior High School

for white children?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Tell us where you received your training, professor.
A. I received my undergraduate training at Kansas

State Teacher’s College, Pittsburg, Kansas.

181

Q. What was your major interest there?
A. Industrial education.
Q. And your particular job with the Board of Educa

tion is teaching what courses, sir?
A. At the present time machine shop and industrial

arts and metal.
Q. Now, professor, I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No.

19. That is the shop at the Senior High School for whites
at Fort Smith. Is that a true representation of your shop?

A. It is.
Q. That does not show all of the equipment in your

shop? Does it?
A. It lacks a compressor, showing all the equipment,

and the shaper over here. A shaper that was purchased
[fol. 169] originally in 1916.

Q. What, in your estimation, would be the cost of fur
nishing a shop of this type, sir?

A. A new shop?
Q. Yes.
A. Complete?
Q. Yes sir.
A. I wouldn’t hazard that answer or an approximate

answer without getting some present prices.
Q. You wouldn’t even state in round numbers like

twenty thousand or thirty thousand or forty thousand
dollars?

A. That is right. I will answer the question this way.
In college I prepared a plan for a machine shop as a project
and at that time I was told ten thousand dollars you could
lay out a shop, machine shop, and it was acceptable.

Q. How many metal lathes do you have, professor?
A. There are seven represented there.
Q. And will you name the other objects, machines that

are shown on this picture, sir?
A. Well, this one in the foreground is known as a planer.

As you have commented, you have a compressor not
shown there, a sensitive drill press, a standard drill press,
and radio arm drill press, a milling machine back of the
radio arm drill press and the arbor press. You see this

182

[fol. 170] handle here, that is known as a metal cutting
bandsaw.

Q. That is that round wheel in the lower left hand
corner front?

A. Right.
Q. Now, what courses do you give in your shop?
A. We offer a course in industrial or vocational trades

machine shop.
Q. What does that embrace, sir?
A. Trades courses are strictly specific courses, that is,

this machine shop course is. That isn't true of woodwork.
Known as a general industrial education course. The
machine shop course as an objective endeavor to train
the boy as an advanced learner for that field. Three
periods given to shop practice. One period given to what
is known as related trade information, which is the tech
nical or informational side of any trade.

Q. So when a boy finished that course, he is prepared to
go in a machine shop and go to work?

A. As an advanced learner. He is not considered a
full-fledged craftman or mechanic.

Q. What other course do you give, sir?
A. We offer what is known as industrial arts, metal

courses. Industrial arts is a part of general education.
That is its prime objective. It also has many lesser ob
jectives, which are such as an exploratory field or find
ing field; a feeder for trade courses and to equip students
[fol. 171] not interested in trade courses to be handier
about the home or at a future date might take up that
work as a hobby.

Q. But your boys, when they finish your courses, can
definitely operate iron lathes?

A. Only the machine shop course, not the industrial
arts course.

Q. Now, what other course do you give, sir?
Those are all. Those are all offered in the machine

shop department.
Q. Now, a young 'Student who finished your course

would be superior in training experience and equipment

183

to a person who had finished the industrial arts course,
wouldn’t he?

A. We hope that he is, yes sir.
Q. And you would say positively that he is?
A. If he has really good trade material?
Q. Yes. Now, I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 20

which is the woodwork shop in the Senior High School
for white children. Is this a true representation of your
shop, sir?

A. Let’s see how this picture is taken. That doesn’t
show all the machines.

Q. A ll right, sir. Would you tell what machines are
shown on that picture?

A. Well, I see a table saw or bench saw, sometimes
called, a surfacer, jointer, bandsaw, tool grinder, another
tool grinder that is obsolete, a compressor that is not used,
[fol. 172] In the foreground in the front of that router, is
another little table saw that is practically worthless. There
are three lathes over here in the left foreground that are at
least forty years old, without exaggeration. A shaper, that
as an instructor in this department last year, was not
in operation. And a belt sander on the right. Against
the wall there is also a radio saw. Most of this equipment
other than the jointer, the table saw and the bandsaw was
N. Y. A. equipment. This jointer, circular bench, saw
and bandsaw were in the old Senior High School. They
are known as American machines, American hasn’t manu
factured a machine under that name for around 25 years.
That machine company is now combined with Yates-
American. We know definitely without any serial num
bers that those three basic machines must be 25 years old
if they were purchased at that time, but my opinion is
that they are much older.

Q. Thank you, sir. Now, what you said in substance,
sir, is that this shop at the Senior High School is not
the best equipped shop that one could have, is that cor
rect?

A. My experience in a number of shops would leave
me to say that it is—it lacks a lot of being a modern
shop.

184

Q. And a shop that has considerably less equipment
in it would then be practically sub-standard, is that cor-
ffol. 173] rect?

A. A shop could have considerably less equipment
and do substantially work that you could do with the
equipment that you see in that exhibit.

Q. What would be the cost of establishing a shop such
as you have here, sir, approximately?

A. Let me look at that again. May I qualify your ques
tion? You buy shop equipment, you buy it stripped down
much like we did an old car, less switches and motor and
everything. In considering a new shop equipment, you
would likely have motors and the like of that, so if you
want me to give you an appraisal on just the machines—

Q. I would like for you to give me the cost of estab
lishing a shop like that from nothing; you have no motors;
you have no stands or racks or anything; you have no tools
and you are going to start from scratch and establish a
shop like that, what would be the approximate cost, in
your opinion, sir?

A. My appraisal would not be a just appraisal without
conferring with machine distributors.

Q. Would you say it would be $20,000.00?
Mr. Woods: Do you mean with new machinery?
Tate: Yes sir, I do.
Q. Up today. Would it be $30,000.00?

[fol. 174] A. I would say in the neighborhood of twelve
or fifteen thousand.

Q. Thank you, sir. Now, what courses do you teach in
your shop, professor, in this woodwork shop?

A. I have only the metal work this year.
Q. Then you have another instructor who teaches under

you?
A. We have a woodworking instructor.
Q. What courses does he teach?
The Court: You have him [subpoened].
Q. Is that Mr. Trow who teaches that course?
A. In the Junior High School?
Q. I am speaking of the High School.

185

A. He offers a course, a vocational course in general
woodworking, quite frequently known as building trades,
which has a number of fields, such as cabinet making, in
terior finishing, some electrical work, some machinery and
like of that as would come in the work.

Q. How much on-the-job training do your students get,
sir?

A. That depends on the nature of the jobs accepted.
A ll jobs do not have educational content. In other words,
a job just for the job may not lend itself to teaching—to
accepting.

Q. But as a practical matter during the year 1948, how
much on-the-job experience did your students get?

A. Most of our work in 1948 in the woodworking shop
was confined to cabinet work, finishing, and that which was
[fol. 175] done within the shop, and was done on the Sen
ior High School campus.

Q. When you say cabinet work, can you tell us some
particular piece of furniture or equipment that you made
during the last year?

A. Well, one particular job, it was a single item; it was
a little proof-reading table made for the printing depart
ment, similar to a tilting lid, with double drawers in front.
Similar to what would be known as a drafting table.

Q. That would be considerable more table than making
an end table, with drawers in it?

A. It would all depend on the construction, the type of
joints. This was relatively simple because it is what we
call a draw-bolt construction.

Q. What other courses do you teach?
A. Do you want the courses explained that this present

woodworking teacher has?
Q. Yes sir.
A. He has two courses in industrial arts woodwork,

which mainly is bench woodwork and hardwood work.
Q. Is that specific training, professor? Of the type that

you described in your iron shop—industrial?
A. Industrial arts is not specific training because it is

[fol. 176] a part of general education. You must divorce

186

training from general education before it becomes specific
or vocational training.

Q. Could your shop turn out a finished chair, uphol
stered in leather, substantially of the type of that chair be
hind you except that the leather goes all over the back and
over the seat and arms?

A. I would say no.
Q. Professor, in Dr. Ramsey’s office—Dr. Ramsey is

superintendent of schools, as you know—there are two or
three chairs of the type that I just described and it is my
understanding that they were made in the shop of the Sen
ior High School. Do you have any knowledge of those
chairs?

A. I do not.
Q. A ll right, sir. Now, what other courses do you have

in your woodwork shop, sir?
A. That is all.
Tate: I think that is all, sir. We pass the witness.

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Hunzicker, if I understand you correctly, you

made a distinction between a metal course in industrial
arts or in industrial art course or in a metal course work?
[fol. 177] A. That is correct.

Q. Could you make that distinction clearer?
The Court: I think he did make it perfectly clear. One

is educational and one is vocational. One prepares him to
make a living and the other gives him a general education
of the theories and some of the principles.

Mr. Woods: That was my understanding of the differ
ence.

Q. Now, are you familiar with both the woodwork shop
which you identified here from the photographs, Exhibit
20, which was presented to you, and the machine shop as
Exhibit 19?

A. I am.
O. Both of these rooms come under your general tute

lage?

187

A. They did last year.
Q. They do not this year?
A. I am only concerned with the metal shop this year.
Q. You are familiar though, with the contents of the

two rooms and the condition of that machinery and these
other appliances shown?

A. I am.
Q. Could you evaluate or place a value on the machin

ery in that exhibit which is Exhibit 20, covering the metal
shop?
[fol. 178] A. This is the woodwork shop.

Q. The woodwork shop. Just take the machinery as it
stands there today, from the standpoint of age, obso
lescence, general utility, usability and all; what value
would you put on it?

A. You want to take it item by item?
The Court: Just give an estimate.
Q. Just give the Court an overall estimate.
A. As mentioned before, the three basic machines, three

machines first found in any woodworking shop, come in
about this order: table saw, bandsaw and jointer. So it is
evident that Fort Smith normally did like every other in
dustrial arts department. Those are the first ones that ever
hit Fort Smith. I would say that they were obsolete
twenty years ago.

Q. What would they be worth today, can you tell that?
Approximately ?

A. Less motors, scarcely over junk price.
Q. Just junk value?
A. Because the whole country is saturated with them—

every machinery dealer in the country. They would be no
good in Fort Smith in a furniture factory because they just
couldn’t compete. The old type bearing. The three lathes
are of the same vintage, perhaps purchased at the same
time.
[fol. 179] Q. A ll right, how about the rest of the stuff?

A. This big machine you see in the foreground is a
rather modern machine. It is direct motor driven, but I
place its age at at least fifteen to eighteen years.

188

Q. What would it be worth now?
A. It would be worth about $500.00 to $800.00.
Q. A ll right; what else?
A. We have a sander not shown here that is in fair

condition. The appraisal price I would set at around
$300.00 or $350.00.

Q. A ll right; anything else?
A. This high-speed rider on the side, as shown, was an

N. Y. A. piece of equipment. The outer rider of that size
in any shop that I have taught in, wouldn’t be a piece of
equipment that would be bought for the ordinary shop.
The shaper not shown, to be put back in condition to
operate, will involve a cost of $100.00 or $150.00 for knives
and shaper cutters. The old tool grinder shown there is
one of the oldest types. It is approximately 25 or 30
years old. It would be, if you could get $25.00 out of it,
less motor, you would be lucky.

Q. Were you speaking of that room the woodwork shop
in answer to counsel’s question a moment ago? You said
that the whole thing could be equipped new for twelve to
fifteen thousand dollars. You are talking about the wood-
[fol. 180] work shop?

A. Correct.
Q. This one?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What would you say would be the cost of equipping

that room just as it is now, putting a present value on that
machinery and equipment? Just as it is?

A. Will you restate that, please?
Q. What value would you put on this equipment that

you see here in Exhibit 25, just as it is now, in the con
dition it is now in, age, obsolescence and all?

A. If somebody were to go in there and want to buy the
whole business, if you got five thousand dollars out of it,
you would be extremely fortunate.

Q. That is the value you put upon it, from three to five
thousand dollars as is?

A. That is probably high.

189

Q. Now, Exhibit 19 which shows the machine shop,
what do you say about the age of that machinery?

A. As mentioned in my earlier testimony, I have
definite correspondence on one machine which was pur
chased in 1918. A ll of these machines, unless they have
been reconditioned, have serial numbers put on them by
the manufacturer. I have exact dates on three others, one
of them purchased in 1920, another purchased in 1928
[fol. 181] and the third one, as you see here, see a number
three there, purchased at a little later date. I have here
the numbers on that one lathe that I mentioned.

The Court: Let’s move along.
Mr. Woods: Let me ask him the general question on

that.
Q. Could you now place a value on that machinery and

equipment in the metal shop as exhibited here in this
photograph and as you have described it?

A. Some of the lathes—
Q. Just give an overall estimate of its value as it

stands today.
A. For trade-in value? For trade-in value, they would

run approximately $150.00 each.
Q. How many are there?
A. Seven. They wouldn’t want to include the motor

and the drive on them.
Q. What you speak of as the trade-in value would be

larger than the cash value?
A. That is right.
Q. Did you hear the testimony of Professor Miller or

Professor Hilliard; Professor Miller speaking of whether
they taught the ceramics and the leather working art and
things of that sort. Did you hear his testimony?

A. I did.
[fol. 182] Q. Do you teach those?

A. We have in our art department the teaching of some
leather work; very little ceramics, no lapidary work or
work in precious stones; no work in my department with
use of copper or aluminum. Do you care for me to enu
merate others?

190

Q. Yes, briefly.
A. It was mentioned about work in silversmithing and

jewelry work. None of that taught. We do offer work
in the art department in color work, some sketching.

Q. Any substantial amount?
A. Water color.
Q. What?
A. Water color work.
Q. Any substantial number of students?
A. In the art department they have reasonable sized

classes.
Q. That is not in your department?
A. No sir.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness excused.

Elisco Sanchez, called as a witness on behalf of the plain
tiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:

[fol. 183] Q. Professor Sanchez, will you give the Court
your name?

A. Elisco Sanchez.
Q. What is your profession, professor?
A. I am a teacher at the Fort Smith Senior High.
Q. And in what department do you teach?
A. Printing.
Q. You are the head of that department, are you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you receive your training for that pro

fession?
A. I got my B. S. degree at Kansas State Teacher’s

College, Pittsburg, Kansas.
Q. That was in printing?
A. In printing, yes, sir.

191

Q. Professor, I show you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 17.
Is that a representation of some of the machinery in your
shop?

A. That is a Babcock press. That is an old press. I
understand it was second-hand when it was put in there.

Q. I want to know if that is a true representation of
your shop?

A. That is one of the presses there.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 16. Is that a part

of your shop?
A. That is the other part.
Q. What are those two machines shown?

[fol. 184] A. Those are the linotype machines.
Q. Two linotype machines?
A. Two linotype machines.
Q. What is this box-like thing?
A. That is just a bench in there. It is what you call

the stone. That is where you put the type in, make up
pages.

Q. I show you Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 18. Is that also
a part of your shop?

A. That is also part of the shop.
Q. W ill you describe the objects that you see there?

The different machines and tell us what kind of machines
they are?

A. That is a little giant.
Q. That is in the lower left hand corner?
A. And that is the rice feeder and that is the clugy.

That is the automatic fed machine.
Q. Now, do those pictures show all of the equipment in

your shop, sir?
A. No, there is another hand-press we have in the

front room, and there is a saw that is not shown on the
picture, and there is a stitcher and a puncher that I don’t
see up here.

Q. Do you have a lead pot?
A. Yes sir, we have an old [sterio] type in there. It is

[fol. 185] back here somewhere, back here, you can’t
hardly see it.

Q. That is over by the linotype machine?
A. By the linotype machine.
Q. What, in your opinion, is the present day cost of a

linotype machine?
A. Well, I don’t have the slightest idea, but it is up

in the thousands.
Q. Would it be as much as $25,000.00?
A. It would probably be around there somewhere. If

you want one like that one, I don’t think you can get one.
Q. What would be the cost of a Babcock press of this

sort?
A. Well, I don’t think they are making those machines

any more like that.
Q. What does this machine do?
A. That is where you print the paper.
Q. That will print a tabloid size newspaper. What

would be the cost of a printing press today that would
print a tabloid size newspaper?

A. Well, that is pretty hard to say.
Q. Would it be as high as $40,000.00?
A. I couldn’t say for sure.
Q. Would it be approximately $35,000.00?
A. Well, I wouldn’t commit myself; I wouldn’t be sure

about it.
Q. Now, this machine at the lower left hand corner

here, will you tell the name of that again?
[fol. 186] A. That is brand known as the Little Giant.

Q. What would one of those cost today, sir?
A. Well, I wouldn’t be sure about it. A ll that equip

ment was there when I came here and I haven’t kept up
as to how much the equipment cost.

Q. This automatic feeder press over here?
A. That is not a clugy exactly. It was a combination

of two machines.
Q. What would one of those cost, approximately, to

day?
A. I wouldn’t be sure. I couldn’t tell you. I don’t

know.

192

193

Q. A ll right. Professor, what courses do you teach in
your shop?

A. We teach industrial arts.
Q. Tell us the contents of that course, sir.
A. Industrial arts is just an exploration course for boys

more or less to see if they like to take printing. That is
about all there is to it.

Q. What is your next course?
A. The other one is trade printing.
Q. That is real workshop?
A. There are more hours in it. Just about the same

thing, but boys that devote their time to that.
Q. And that is a course for boys who will ultimately

or could go into the printing business?
A. Printing business.

[fol. 187] Q. And he would bring to the business after
graduation from your school, considerable skills toward
becoming a journeyman printer?

A. That is right. He wouldn’t be a full-fledged printer
but he could go in a shop and do little odd jobs and eventu
ally become a printer.

Q. Now, what other courses do you teach, sir?
A. That is all we teach, just industrial arts and trade

printing.
Q. When you say that a man would be a printer, that

is, he would have the foundation for a printer, that means
he would know how to operate the linotype machine?

A. Well, not necessarily so. There are some that take
on presses.

Q. Some that there is a classification of a worker in the
workshop that has to do with linotype, make-up, and
that sort of thing and the pressman?

A. Yes sir.
Q. You give training in both of those fields?
A. Yes, we do. Some boys that like to take nothing

but linotype and they more or less try to take nothing
but linotype.

194

Q. So that your boys also get training in setting up
the paper, that is, putting the galleys in, locking up your
paper and making mats, do they?
[fol. 188] A. They do.

Q. Do they get mat making too?
A. They do.
Q. Then they get experience in putting that mat on

the press?
A. They do.
Q. They get experience with inking the machine?
A. Yes, some of them do.
Q. And actually running the paper off?
A. Some of them do that.
Q. So he has a pretty good notion of the printing trade

when he comes out of your school?
A. It is entirely up to the student also.
Q. Oh, sure, we recognize that.
Tate: We pass the witness.

Cross Examination.
By Mr. Woods:
Q. Professor Sanchez, is that right?
A. That is right.
Q. If I understand your testimony, your entire print

shop equipment consists of two small linotype machines?
A. Two linotype machines.
Q. And one flat bed, two-way printing press?
A. That is the printing press that we print the paper.
Q. That is the one counsel referred to as the large

press?
[fol. 189] A. The large press.

Q. And two or three small hand presses that are de
signed for job printing?

A. Job printing.
Q. And that is the sum total of your equipment?
A. No, I mentioned this other equipment that was

there.

195

Q. Well, yes, but your printing presses?
A. The printing presses, that is right, sir,
Q. Can you give the Court briefly, just an overall esti

mate of what these two linotype presses, in their present
condition, considering their age and their present usa
bility, utility, and all, what value would they have?

A. Well, have very little value. Those linotypes are
shot.

Q. Give an estimate in dollars.
A. I wouldn’t know but you wouldn’t sell them for

very much.
Q. $500.00 apiece?
A. You might get $500.00 out of them.
Q. Would you figure that $500.00 would be a fair price

for them or a large price for them?
A. Well, I think it would be about a fair price for

them.
Q. Now, those are the machines shown in Exhibit 16.

Now, the large press is shown in Exhibit 17, this photo
graph. That is referred to as a flat bed, two-way press,
large press?

A. That is the large press.
[fol. 190] Q. Do you have any idea the age of that press?

A. Well, that is a pretty old press.
Q. About how old?
A. I would say it would be around 20 years old.
Q. Could you put an estimate of its present value in

that condition on it for the Court?
A. I think the only thing you could sell it for would

be junk.
Q. How much junk value does it have in dollars?
A. I would say around a hundred dollars.
Q. Now, Exhibit 18 shows three—I believe there are

three job presses?
A. There is two job presses and this little Johnny

over here.
Q. How old are those machines?
A. They are fairly old also.

196

Q. About how old?
A. Well, I wouldn’t know.
Q. Would you class them as obsolete?
A. Well, obsolete in a way.
Q. What value would you place on those three ma

chines?
A. Well, they wouldn’t probably bring any more than

this other press over here.
Q. That is just junk value?
A. Mostly junk value.
Q. You say approximately junk value?

[fol. 191] A. That is what I would say.
Q. And how much would that be; a few hundred dollars

at most?
A. A few hundred dollars at the most.
Q. A ll the other equipment that you described, what

value would you place on that?
A. Well, I don’t know just how much it would cost.

That equipment was there when I came.
Q. Just put your best estimate on it.
A. Well, I figure all this other equipment in there

would be around—well, I ’ll say around $500.00.
Q. For all the rest of it?
A. I wouldn’t say that. I wouldn’t be sure.
Q. Do you think that would cover it, that that would be

a liberal estimate?
A. That probably would. I am not so sure.
Q. Do you tell the Court that all of the equipment in

the printing department would come to $2000.00 or less?
Would it be worth $2000.00 or less in its present condition?

A. Just the equipment?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, I figure it would be around there somewhere.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness Excused.

197

Tom Trow, called as a witness on behalf of the plaintiffs,
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

[fob 192] Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Professor Traw, will you tell the Court your name?
A. Tom Traw.
Q. And what is your profession?
A. Woodwork teacher, Junior High.
Q. That is in Fort Smith, Arkansas?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Professor, we don’t have a picture of your shop,

would you tell the Court what your shop is equipped with?
A. We have a jointer, bench saw, three lathes, jigsaw

and bandsaw.
Q. That is your total equipment by way of machines?
A. Well, there is another piece. It is in an air com

pressor, however, we don’t use it.
Q. Now, do you have a supply of tools?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What do you think in round numbers would be the

cost of setting up a shop of the type that you now operate
at the Junior High School for white children?

A. About $3500.00.
Q. Could you set up a shop such as you now have?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What courses do you teach in your shop?
A. Woodwork.

[fol. 193] Q. What particular courses?
A. Just industrial arts.
Q. Industrial arts?
A. That is alb
Q. That is the exploratory type of information where

they are fed into the courses in the Senior High School?
A. Fundamentals of woodwork.
Q. Do you give your full time to teaching those courses,

sir?
A. Yes.

198

Q. Did you conduct any projects last year, I mean did
you make any furniture or anything of that sort?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Tell us what you made, sir.
A. Well, we made corner shelves, whatnots, night

stands, tables, table lamps.
Q. And this is all done at the Junior High School?
A. Yes.
Q. When they go into High School they get additional

training in their field?
A. Yes sir.
Q. So by the time they come out of the High School,

their total accumulated knowledge of shop work is sub
stantial?

A. Yes.
Q. And they are equipped to go out and enter the build

ing trade and cabinet making and that sort, with consid
erably better equipment than a person who had not been
[fol. 194] availed of those privileges?

A. Yes sir, that is an advantage but they are not cabinet
makers.

Q. I recognize that. Do you have drafting?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you read blueprints?
A. No.
Tate: Pass the witness.

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. About how many students do you have enrolled in

your school?
A. 120.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness Excused.

199

V ictor Geisel, called as a witness on behalf of the plain
tiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Professor Geisel, will you state your full name to the

Court?
A. Victor Geisel.
Q. What is your profession?
A. My profession is truly auto mechanics.

[fol. 195] Q. And do you give your full time to teaching
that?

A. I do at the present.
Q. And where do you teach?
A. At the present I teach at the Automotive Trade

School for veterans.
Q. Is that connected with the Junior High School and

the Fort Smith public schools?
A. No sir.
Q. That is a separate undertaking?
A. Separate.
Q. Is it a part of the Senior High School?
A. No sir.
Q. Are you employed by the Board of Education of Fort

Smith, Arkansas?
A. I believe that is right.
Q. Now, where is your shop situated, sir?
A. 423 Wheeler Avenue.
Q. Is that in the high school building?
A. No sir.
Q. That is a separate unit entirely?
A. That is right.
Q. Are there any other people on your staff?
A. One other instructor.
Q. He works under you?
A. No.

[fol. 196] Q. You devote your whole time to automotive
teaching, is that true?

200

A. That is true.
Q. Automobile repair and that sort of thing. Do you

teach body work?
A. Very little.
Q. Do you teach painting?
A. Very little of that.
Q. Do you teach upholstering?
A. No sir.
Q. Can you install glass?
A. No sir.
Q. Does the building in which you teach belong to

the Fort Smith public schools or do you know, sir?
A. That, I don’t know.
Q. How much equipment have you got in your shop?

Let me state that differently. Will you tell us what equip
ment you have in your shop?

A. That would be a little bit lengthy. We have sev
eral different pieces of just general auto mechanic equip
ment, whereas, there is a lot of it that is obsolete and not
used.

Q. How long has that shop been operating? Or do you
know?

A. That, I do not know either.
Q. Can your work be described in terms of courses,

for instance, do you have such things as men who
[fol. 197] specialize in magnetos, generators, generator
welding for the regular mechanic who bores cylinders and
seats valves and things of that kind? Do you have men
that specialize in those different things?

A. No sir. He gets a general knowledge of all the auto
motive except the body and upholstering.

Q. How many semester hours work does a man have
there before he becomes a graduate or a candidate for
graduation?

A. So many hours.
Q. How many hours?
A. 1540 some hours per year.
Tate: That is all.

201

Cross Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Geisel, you understand, do you not, that you

are not an employee of the Fort Smith School Board?
A. That is right.
Q. You are an employee of some agency of the Fed

eral Government?
A. That is right.
Q. A ll of the expenses of operating your institution

down there, is paid by an agency of the Federal Govern
ment?

A. That is right.
[fol. 198] Q. You understand that your enrollment of
students is not controlled in any way by the Fort Smith
School Board?

A. That is true. It is not.
Q. Your students are selected by some Government

agency under some plan of that agency and are assigned
to you?

A. That is right.
Q. Isn’t that right?
A. That is right.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

Re-Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. How long did you say you had been on this job?
A. I started this job the first day of June, 1949.
Q. And when you applied for that job, to whom did

you apply?
A. I didn’t apply. They approached me.
Q. Who approached you?
A. The Veteran’s Administration.
Q. Now, you are listed as a member of the staff of the

Junior High School. Who supervises you in your work?
A. That was my previous job.
Q. Sir? Oh, this is not your job today?
A. No, it is not.

202

Q. I see. A ll right, sir. I thank you very kindly.
Witness Excused.

[fol. 199] Mrs. L awson Cloninger, called as a witness on
behalf of the plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, tes
tified as follows:

Direct Examination.

Tate:
Q. Mrs. Cloninger, will you state your name to the

Court, please?
A. Mrs. Lawson Cloninger.
Q. What is your profession?
A. Physical education teacher, Junior High School,

Fort Smith.
Q. Where did you receive your training?
A. Northwestern University.
Q. What was your major at Northwestern University?
A. I majored in Sociology and Modern History.
Q. Have you done any graduate work since you left

college?
A. I have taken some courses but they were under

graduate courses in education.
Q. How does it come that you are teaching physical

education, did you get that as a part of your liberal arts
training?

A. I think they needed a physical education teacher.
Q. W ill you please tell us, Mrs. Cloninger, what

courses you teach?
A. I teach swimming and gym for the girls.

[fol. 200] Q. Swimming and gym?
A. That is right.
Q. When you say gym, what does that include, Mrs.

Cloninger?
A. Softball, volley ball and basketball. I haven’t done

folk dancing but I intend to; some tumbling but as the

203

previous witness said that he didn’t find his work was
wholly satisfactory; I am in the same boat.

Q. Mrs. Cloninger, I present you with Plaintiff’s Ex
hibit No. 10. That is the dressing room at the Junior
High School. Is that a true representation of that?

A. This is the boys’ dressing room. They switched two
years ago—year ago last summer and that is the boys’
dressing room.

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 9. Is that the
dressing room of the young ladies?

A. That is right.
Q. What are those devices up against the wall at the

top?
A. Those are hair dryers.
Q. Do the girls have benches on which to sit?
A. That is right. They have individual dressing rooms.
Q. Do they have showers there?
A. That is right.
Q. Do the boys who participate in physical education

share in the use of those showers? I mean do they use
them on alternate days?
[fol. 201] A. No, they have their showers in their own
dressing rooms.

Q. Do you have a gym at the Junior High School for
white children?

A. That is right.
Q. Can you tell me the size of the basketball court in

that gym?
A. No, I couldn’t.
Q. Do you have bleachers there, that is, stands for your

spectators to sit in?
A. Yes.
Q. Are there showers in connection with your gym,

over and above the showers—these showers that I showed
you there, I believe were in connection with the swim
ming pool. Is that right?

A. The showers are in back of the hair dryers here.
Q. Yes.

204

A. They are right near the swimming pool.
Q. Are they the same showers that they use in the

gym?
A. You mean when the girls want to take showers

after gym?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, they are the same.
Q. That is a reproduction of your swimming pool?
A. That is correct.
Q. That is Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 7. Is this the Plain-

[fol. 202] tiff’s Exhibit No. 8, is that the individual
showers which your girls use?

A. Those are their dressing rooms. They don’t have
individual showers.

Q. Those are individual dressing rooms?
A. Yes.
Q. Do they have lockers in which they might leave

their clothes when they go into the gym?
A. No, nothing but the dressing room.
Q. They do have metal lockers in the hall that they may

lock?
A. Yes, that they use for their books and all their

school equipment.
Q. In your opinion, Mrs. Cloninger, would a lady-

teacher be better equipped to teach physical education to
a group of girls than a man teacher?

A. I think it would help.
Q. Do you have a basketball court?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know the size of that, whether it is the

official size basketball court, 80 x 150?
A. I don’t know whether it is or not.
Q. Now, in secondary education, that is the Junior

High School and the Senior High School, physical educa
tion is a rather important subject, is that true?
[fob 203] A. Well, it is required. The state feels the im
portance of it.

205

Q. ' It has to do .with body building, safety items and
such things as that?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, in your gymnasium, Mrs. Cloninger, what

equipment do you have for teaching your subjects?..
A. Well, the boys and girls share the same gym, so we

share our equipment also. There is a soft ball and bat,
basketballs, mats, volley ball and soccer ball. Mr. Wells,
the boys’ physical education teacher, uses ropes and poles
for climbing, and horses and so on for tumbling that I
don’t use.

Q. ( But the equipment is in the gym?
A. The equipment is there too.
Q. Do you know whether he has leg pulleys or not? .
A. No, I have never seen them if he does.
Q. Do you know whether he has chest pulleys (indi

cating) ?
A. I have never seen: them.
Q. Do you know whether he has weights for lifting and

body building?
A. I have never seen them.
Q. But he does have ropes and parallel bars?
A. I have never seen them. I have never seen parallel

bars.
[fol. 204] Q. In the swimming pool do you have a diving
board?

A. That is. right.
Q. And do you have a water purification system?
A. That is right.
Q. And do you have a water heating system?,
A. That is right.
Q. Do you have a vacuum cleaner for your pool?
A. No. It has been recommended but we don’t, as I

understand it. I may be wrong.
Q. Now, for your field and track activities, what do you

do. Do you use the stadium over at the Senior High
School?

206

A. I have nothing to do with that because I don’t have
any of that.

Q. Your girls don’t participate in that?
A. No.
Tate: We pass the witness.
Mr. Woods: No questions.
Witness excused.

4:30 o’clock P. M. Wednesday November 9, 1949, Court
adjourned until 9:00 o’clock A. M. tomorrow morning.

9:00 o’clock Thursday, November 10, 1949, Court met
pursuant to adjournment.

Booker: If the Court please, on yesterday, counsel for
the defendants presented a motion to quash our subpoena
[fol. 205] duces tecum upon which hearing was had and
just for the record, we are asking the Court to permit us to
file an answer just to deny—just for the purpose of the
record, and on the basis of that and from the facts and
stipulation drawn from the presentation of that motion
yesterday morning, we should like to ask the Court to
entertain us for the moment on an additional amend
ment to our complaint.

The Court: A ll right. (Booker passed paper to the
Court.)

The Court: Have you read a copy of the amendment?
Mr. Woods: Yes sir.
The Court: I know of no objection to it being filed. I

don’t think it would necessitate any continuance or change
the issues other than what you contend anyway.

Mr. Woods: I don’t think so, Your Honor. Of course,
we object to the filing of it and would like to save the
point in the record.

The Court: Yes.
Mr. Woods: And at this point I would like to state for

the record, I think Your Honor understands the situation,
but I would like to state for the record the two grounds

207

upon which we object to this amendment and to it bring-
[fol. 206] ing in the Junior College as an issue. Those two
grounds are these. First, the Junior College is not a part
of the Fort Smith Public School system. It is operated
separately and apart and as a matter of fact, it is an extra
legal proposition, and supported by the tuition of the
students and not by the funds of the school district, that is
No. 1, but the principal objection to the filing of this
amendment is the fact that the complaint and amendment
considered together, show on their face that the plaintiffs
in this case are without capacity to ask for that relief.
The allegations that they are students in the grade schools,
the colored grade schools and the Lincoln High School,
colored school of Fort Smith. They are not in position
to attend the Junior College even if it was available to
them, and we invoke the rule announced originally by the
Supreme Court in McCabe versus Atchison, Topeka Rail
road Company. And the Court recently in Gaines versus
Canada, that is the Missouri law school case, in which the
Supreme Court held that a person’s seeking relief on
the charge of discrimination under Amendment 14, must
allege and prove a personal discrimination, that he per
sonally has been deprived of some right that is accorded
other people.
[fol. 207] The Court: I am glad to let the record show
the grounds of the objection. I think probably they go
more as a defense than as a reason why the question should
not be presented to the Court, therefore, I am going to
overrule your objection and save your exception and let
the amendment be filed.

Calvin Richardson, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Would you give the Court your full name?
A. Calvin Richardson.
Q. Speak loud enough so these gentlemen can hear you.

Where do you live?

208

A. 4400 Armour Avenue.
Q. Do you attend school here in Fort Smith?
A. I do.
Q. Have you always attended school here?
A. With the exception of last year.
Q. Where did you go to school last year?
A. Sumner High School, Kansas City, Kansas.
Q. What did you take in your courses last year?
A. I took journalism.
Q. What else?

[fol. 208] A. And history, World History, English—
Mr. Woods: If the Court please, we object to testimony

along that line, what schools he went to in other states.
Tate: I am doing that for a certain, very definite pur-

pose.
The Court: I understand the purpose. Objection over

ruled. Go ahead.
Q. What else did you take, Calvin?
A. Printing.
Q. You are now enrolled in the Fort Smith school, is

that right?
A. Right.
Q. What school do you attend?
A. Lincoln High.
Q. What grade are you in now?
A. Eleventh.
Q. Are you interested in the printing trade as a profes

sion?
A. Yes.
Q. And would you like to continue taking printing now?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have the opportunity to take it where you

are?
A. No.
Q. Are you interested in continuing your study in jour

nalism?
[fol. 209] A. Yes.

209

Q. Are you able to take journalism in the school in
which you are now enrolled?

A. No sir.
Q. Why aren’t you able to take those courses, Calvin?
A. Because they ain’t there.
Q. Do you play football, Calvin?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you on the football team at Lincoln?
A. Don’t have one.
Q. They don’t have one?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know why they don’t have one?
A. Because there isn’t any equipment there.
Q. Do you have a field on which you could play?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you have a coach for football?
A. Not as I know of.
Q. You don’t know. And there is no other equipment

for that purpose there?
A. No.
Q. Now, Calvin, do you know, are you known among

the other students out at Lincoln High School?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 210] Q. Do you know whether or not there are any
other children out there who feel as you do about these
courses, about wanting to take them?

Mr. Daily: We object to that.
The Court: Objection sustained.
Tate: A ll right. We pass the witness.
Mr. Woods: No questions.
Witness Excused.

210

Dr. J. W. Ramsey, called as a witness on behalf of the
plaintiffs, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Tate:
Q. Dr. Ramsey, will you state your full name?
A. J. W. Ramsey.
Q. And what is your profession, sir?
A. I am school superintendent.
Q. And by what system are you employed?
A. The Fort Smith Special School District.
Q. And as such you are the administrative officer of the

public schools in this jurisdiction, is that correct, sir?
A. That is right.
Q. And among your duties are the planning of the cur

riculum for all the schools under your supervision. Is that
[fol. 211] correct, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. You do, in fact, plan such courses and curriculum,

don’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. And in the planning of your courses, what are the

items that you consider in planning the course for the
courses for each of the respective schools under your super
vision?

A. The need that is present. You attempt to work out
courses of studies that will meet the needs for one thing
and the capabilities of the students; the [liklihood] or the
later use of the various courses that they are to have in
the schools. Those are the primary.

Q. In other words, you take into consideration the fu
ture use which a student will make of the training which
you provide for him; is that correct, sir?

A. That is, generally speaking, correct.
Q. And are there any others? You said you also con

sidered the capability of the students. Are there any other
basic considerations, Dr. Ramsey?

211

A. I don’t know of any at the moment. It occurs to me
that is the broad, general basis on which they are se
lected.

Q. Dr. Ramsey, under your supervision you have
schools for white children, that is, schools to which only
white children under your supervision may attend, don’t
[fol. 212] you?

A. That is correct.
Q. And you have schools to which only Negro children

may attend, is that correct, sir?
A. That is right.
Q. And there are both elementary schools for Negroes,

high school for Negroes, elementary schools for white chil
dren and Junior High School for white children, Senior
High School for white children and a Junior College to
which white students may attend.

Mr. Woods: I object to any reference to the Junior Col
lege.

The Court: He can answer the question.
Mr. Woods: It will not be necessary for us to repeat

our objections?
The Court: No sir.
Mr. Woods: It is understood we object to any testi

mony with reference to the Junior College?
The Court: Yes.
Q. Would you answer that question?
A. I will say yes, to that part of it, excepting the Junior

College. The Junior College is operated in the high school
building, but as has been put in the record heretofore, it
is operated on funds or by funds that are derived from the
tuition of students.
[fol. 213] Q. Now, as an employee of the Board of Edu
cation of Fort Smith, Arkansas, that is a full-time occu
pation with you, isn’t it, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. And as such, you are an agent of the State of A r

kansas, aren’t you?
The Court: That is not denied. It is a legal matter.

212

Q. Then do you receive any income from any other
employment other than income as superintendent of
schools?

A. I have just one income. That is all.
Q. That is all. That is your salary as superintendent

of schools?
A. That is right.
Q. Of the Fort Smith, Arkansas school system?
A. That is right.
Q. Is it true that you are President of the Fort Smith

Junior College?
A. I have that designation in our administrative set-up;

I do have that title.
Q. Is it true that you employ the teachers who teach

at the Junior College, the Fort Smith Junior College?
A. We employ the teachers for the Senior High School,

some of whom are used as part time in the Junior College,
and some full time.
[fol. 214] Q. Do you plan the courses at the Junior Col
lege?

A. Indirectly, yes. A better designation would be, I
approve the courses that are worked out.

Q. At least you have the authority to approve the
courses?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, is there a tuition fee charged at

the Fort Smith Junior College?
A. There is.
Q. Who determines what that tuition fee shall be?
A. Well, it is based on my recommendation to the

board, which in turn, of course, is based on an estimate of
what the cost would be necessary to take care of the ex
pense,

Q. But the Board of Directors of the Fort Smith Pub
lic Schools determine on your recommendation what that
tuition shall be. Is that true, sir?

A. That is correct.
Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, there are certain expenses inci

dent to the operation of the Junior College, such as pro

213

viding heat and light and telephone service, janitorial
service and so on. Who pays the light bill at the Junior
College?

A. The light bill and all of the operation expenses of
the Junior College are paid along with the same expenses
for the high school, that is, on this assumption that the
[fol. 215] building is there; it has to be maintained and
operated, regardless of the occupancy of it, and in that
way—this is an indirect way of answering your question,
but those expenses are paid as a part of the high school.

Q. And do you keep your revenue from the Junior
College in a separate account?

A. A ll of our funds. are co-mingled from all sources,
but a separate ledger account is kept for each of the
schools, including the Junior College.

Q. They all go into the general account out of which
the general school system is operated?

A. We have a separate accounting system in which
we record the expenses that are incurred by each of the
different units in the school system.

Q. Now, Professor L. A. Rutledge is Dean of the Fort
Smith Junior College. Does he work under your super
vision?

A. He did. He isn’t any longer with us.
Q. Who is the now Dean?
A. Mr. Elmer Cook.
Q. Now, does he work under your supervision?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he appointed by you, with the approval—
A. On my recommendation. That is right. He was

designated for that place, I guess you call it approved.
Q. Now, I w ill ask you the question over again. Under

[fol. 216] your supervision there is operated an elemen
tary school system for whites, a high school system for
whites, including a Junior High School and a Senior High
School and a Junior College for white use in this area. Is
that true, sir?

A. That is correct.
Q. Is that your answer?

214

A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. Now, Dr. Ramsey, it is your conten

tion that the Junior College is not supported out of pub
lic revenue. Is that correct, sir?

A. That is correct.
Q. That it is supported from the tuition of the students.

Is that correct, sir?
A. That is right.
Q. I refer to your report. W ill you identify that doc

ument, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. What is that?
A. This is the annual report of the Superintendent of

the Board of Education for the school year 1947-48.
Q. Was that prepared under your supervision, Dr.

Ramsey?
A. That is right.
Q. Now, will you turn to page 31 of that report, Dr.

Ramsey, and there you have a statement of the operating
[fol. 217] cost of the schools under your supervision, and
the operating cost at the Junior High School,, which em
braces grades 7, 8 and 9 for white children, was $148,653.00.
Is that correct, sir?

A. Correct.
Q. And for the Senior High School, it was $147,851.31.

Is that correct, sir?
A. Right.
Q. Now, combining those two, that would amount to.

$296,504.46. I ask you to believe that, because I added
those. Under the Negro school, the Lincoln School, at the
bottom of that page, you will see the operating cost was
$28,898.93. It is true, sir, that your Junior College for
whites included grades 7, 8 and 9, isn’t it?

A. That is right.
Q. And your Senior High School includes 10, 11 and

12?
Mr. Daily: May I make this suggestion? He means

Junior High School instead of Junior College.

215

Q. Junior High School?
A. I thought that is what you meant; I interpreted that

as what your question meant.
Q. And your Senior High School for Negroes includes

grades 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12?
A. That is right.
Q. In other words, your Senior High School for Negroes

[fol. 218] serves the same grade group in the Negro race
as your combined Junior and Senior High Schools serve in
the white group. That is correct, sir?

A. That is right.
Q. A ll right, then. If we decide to determine how many

children of a particular grade group are in the area, it is
appropriate to add the enrollment at the Lincoln High
School, plus the enrollment at the white Junior High
School, plus the enrollment at the white Senior High
school so as to determine the total number of children in
the grade groups from 7 to 12, inclusive?

A. Yes.
Q. Adding those, then we get 2,603 students. That

column six has a decimal point and it should not be
there. The total amount spent on that, we get by adding
columns 1, 2 and 4, making a total expenditure of $325,-
404.39. That is the total amount spent on all children in
the district, in the grades 7 to 12 inclusive, and all of the
children including Negro and white. Then the average
cost could be arrived at by dividing the amount spent by
the number of students served. If we divide $325,404.39
by 2,603 persons, the average amount expended is $125.01.
That is the average for all. The actual expenditure on
white children was $127.52. The actual expense—amount
[fol. 219] expended on Negro students was $103.91, making
a difference of $23.61, the amount expended in excess on
whites to the amount spent on Negroes, is that correct, sir ?

A. Assuming your calculations are accurate, that is
true.

Q. Now, I present you this form, will you identify that?
A. That is the annual report of the Superintendent of

the Schools to directors for the school year 1946-47.

216;

Q. ( Was that compiled under your supervision, sir?
A. It was.
Q. Will you turn to page 32 of that report? There you -

will find the break-down. of the operating cost, as to
all of your schools, the amount spent in the operation of ■
the Junior High School for white children was $122,000

The Court: Let me interrupt a minute. Does this
schedule here, assuming that your calculations are correct,
is taken from his various reports, what he has testified
and the questions you have propounded with reference to
1947-1848 would apply with equal force and the figures
show for themselves for the other school years that you
have set out, beginning 1932-33; 1942-43; 1943-44; 1944-45;
1945-46; 1946-47. Unless there is something different—

Tate: No sir, there is nothing different. If the Court
will permit, we will introduce it now as it stands.
[fol. 220] The Court: It is perfectly clear;., assuming that
your calculations are mathematically correct.

Tate: Yes sir. Then I would just like to summarize
this, if the Court please. ..

The Court: A ll right.
Tate: .This chart shows that for-the year 1932-33, the

difference in the amount spent on Negroes and whites was
$17:89. 1942-43, $28.06;. 1943-44, $18:59;. 1944-45, $15.30;
1945-46, $20.17; 1946-47, $9.52.

Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, each year over that period of
approximately 15 years at the points that we have sampled,
the amount each time spent on whites was in excess of
the amount spent on Negroes: : You knew that, sir, didn’t,
you?

A. In a general way. I never checked it specifically.
I did know that in a general way.

Q. Well, in a general way you knew. What do you.
mean by a general way, Dr. Ramsey?

217

A. What I mean by that; I never made the exact com
parisons for any specific purpose and the preparation of
these reports, naturally I would at the moment that the
calculations were made, I would know at that time what
the figures were, but I never made any point of trying to
[fol. 221] differentiate, because there were not two schools,
regardless of whether high school or elementary, that
came out the same. You see those calculations were made
by schools as well as by races.

Q. But in this case, this reflects the operation of so
much as two parallel systems; your system for white
students and your system for colored students, and there
is a pattern here of spending less on Negroes than was
spent on whites, isn’t there?

A. According to those figures, you are correct?
Q. The reason you never inquired into that, you weren’t

really particularly concerned about it, were you?
A. I wouldn’t say that is true. I have been concerned

about improvement of all the schools, both white and
colored and during that particular time which you have
mentioned there, during the depression and years when
funds weren’t adequate, we were making an effort to hold
our own the best we could and regardless of how you would
have felt about it, it was almost impossible to do anything
more than was done.

Tate: If the Court please, we would like to introduce
this as an exhibit by the plaintiffs.

Mr. Woods: Wait a minute.
Mr. Woods:

[fol. 222] Q. Did you see that?
A. No sir, I didn’t see that.
Tate: I made that for the record.
Mr. Shaw: I don’t know whether it is correct.
The Court: Let it be admitted on the assumption that

the calculations are correct. That is this, isn’t it?
Tate: Yes sir.

218

The Court: He took it from the reports of ’32. If you
will look at the exhibit you can tell what he took it from.

Tate: The only error possibly would be addition and
division. If you find any error, we would submit to the
correction.

Mr. Woods: We would like to object on the ground
that the original reports are here.

The Court: I understand. This is just a recapitulation
for one purpose, to show the relative expenses for the white
system and the Negro system. Assuming those figures are
correct, and assuming they were taken from the original
reports, it is admitted on that assumption. So if you can
find any errors in it, you can point them out.

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 69 received in evidence.

[fol. 222A] PLAINTIFFS’ EXHIBIT No. 69

ANALYSIS OF OPERATING EXPENSES — FORT SMITH PUBLIC SCHOOLS
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Total Total Tot. Avg.
White White White Negro Total, Students Opr. Exp. Dif.
Jr. H. S. Sr. H. S. Grades Grades White & White, Per Pupil Actual Expense White
Grades Grades 10, 7-12 7-12 Negro Gr. Negro Gr. White- For Operations Above Page

Year 7, 8, 9 11, and 12 Inclusive Inclusive 7-12 Inch 7-12 Inch Negro White Negro Negro No.
1932-33 58,648.70 59,333.80 117,982.50 8,707.84 126,690.34 2,398 52.86 54.59 36.70 17.89 57
1942-43 70,763.56 87,829.76 158,593.32 11,796.83 170,390.15 2,438 69.80 72.91 44.85 28.06 43
1943-44 78,331.80 91,778.16 180,109.96 14,537.61 194,647.57 2,155 90.32 92.01 73.42 18.59 35
1944-45 88,784.49 92,650.62 181,435.11 15,197.04 196,632.15 2,316 84.90 86.31 71.01 15.30 34
1945-46 104,688.08 118,521.18 223,209.26 18,687.83 241,897.09 2,361 102.45 104.35 84.18 20.17 29
1946-47 122,787.04 131,463.59 254,250.63 24,682.94 278,933.57 2,406 115.88 116.84 107.32 9.52 32
1947-48 148,653.15 147,851.31 296,504.46 28,898.93 325,404.39 2,603 125.01 127.52 103.91 23.61 31

SCHEME: Column 3 — Col. 1 plus Col. 2 NUMBER OF PUPILS GRADES 7-12 INCLUSIVE
Column 5 — Col. 3 plus Col. 4 Year White Negro Total
Column 7 — Col 5 plus Col. 6 1932-33 2161 237 2,398
Column 8 — Col. 3 — No>. of White pupils 1942-43 2175 263 2,438

grades 7-12 incl. 1943-44 1957 198 2,155
1944-45 2102 214 2,316
1945-46 2139 222 2,361
1946-47 2167 230 2,406
1947-48 2325 278 2,603
SOURCE: Annual Report of the Superintendent,

Dr. J. W. Ramsey

219

220

[fol. 223] Q. Now, I give you back your report for 1947-
48. Dr. Ramsey, I refer you now sir, to page 32 of your
1947-48 report. On that page you have set up the value of
land, buildings and equipment used in your school system;
the value of land, buildings and equipment for Negro stu
dents in 1947-48 was $72,659.90. The value of land, build
ings and equipment devoted to the use of white children
was $1,232,753.65. Is that correct, sir?

A. Well, I would assume that it is—that the addition of
those items—

Q. The average daily attendance of Negro students
(that is page 37) was 317. The average daily attendance
of white children was 2,693. If then, we divide'—•

The Court: How could that be when you only had 2325
white students and you had 278 Negro children?

A. He is using enrollment instead of average daily at
tendance.

Tate: The average enrollment. Change that to the en
rollment instead of daily attendance, will you, please sir?

Q. If then, we divide the value of land, buildings and
equipment—

The Court: That is average daily enrollment instead of
average daily attendance?
[fol. 224] Tate: Yes sir.

The Court: A ll right. I still don’t see how you could
get those figures though.

Tate: They are taken from his report, Your Honor.
The Court: You have got Exhibit 69 showing a total

number of pupils in the white for that year 2,325 and Ne
groes 278, and you have got the average daily enrollment
of white 2693 and the average daily enrollment of the Ne
groes 317.

Tate: I can only rely on his report, sir.
A. May I make an explanation, Your Honor? The en

rollment isn’t called the average daily enrollment. It is
just simply a calculative figure that shows the total num
ber of pupils. The enrollment is the total number of per
sons who are enrolled during the year. The average daily
attendance is simply the average number of pupils who are

221

actually in school from day to day. There is a difference
in the two terms.

The Court: That wouldn’t be average daily enrollment?
A. Enrollment.
Q. Enrollment?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 225] The Court: If you will put it that way, I can
understand it very easily.

Tate: A ll right, sir.
The Court: If you will just put it enrollment for the

year, I can understand it. Do you catch the point?
Tate: Yes sir, I do. I thank you for the correction.
Q. If you divide the total amount of land, buildings and

equipment by the number of Negro students enrolled, you
will get an average amount per student devoted to build
ings, land and equipment for Negroes and that amount is
$229.20. If you divide the total amount of land, buildings
and equipment devoted to white children by the number
of children enrolled, the amount will be $457.76. Now,
Dr. Ramsey, the measure of the amount of capital invest
ment per student is one of the ways of determining the
equality of the system. Is that correct? That is one of
the standard educational methods, is that correct?

A. I am not sure that it is, though I would assume that
it is one of the generally recognized bases to determine
•—I am not an expert on accreditation. I know in the
accreditation of schools, like buildings and so entered into
it, but I couldn’t say authoritatively that that is, but I
[fol. 226] would assume that it is.

Q. Then in this case in 1947-48, the amount of capital
invested per student enrolled in the white schools is sub
stantially twice the amount invested on Negroes. You
knew that, sir, didn’t you?

A. I didn’t know that, because I hadn’t made the cal
culations that you have presented here.

Q. But you have the information available to you so
that you could have known that?

A. Yes, if I had followed the same procedure you have
followed, naturally, I would have known that.

222

Tate: Now, if the Court please, this chart is the same;
was arrived at by the same method the other was.

The Court: Let it be admitted under the same situa
tion as the other.

Tate: I would like to read the amounts into the record.
In 1932-33, the amount invested in land, buildings and
grounds for Negroes was $271.41 per pupil enrolled. For
white children it was $406.15 per pupil enrolled.

Mr. Shaw: If he is going to read his calculations into
the record, I believe the basis for the calculation should
be placed in so we can check them. I assume he is going
to introduce his exhibit there?
[fol. 227] Tate: Yes,

The Court: If you don’t have one of those reports from
which those calculations are taken, I w ill require him to
introduce it, but if he does, what is the use of encumbering
the record with the voluminous report just in order to get
certain figures from it. If you have one of the reports you
can check it because it shows what it is checked from.

Mr. Shaw: Just necessitate making the check. Of
course, we would want to do that possibly during the noon
hour.

The Court: I say I am admitting it under the same as
sumption of correctness from the report, you see. If your
examination discloses any errors, it will be coriected.

Tate: Yes sir.
Mr. Woods: I understand counsel has offered the sheet,

this chart that you have just been discussing.
The Court: No.
Mr. Woods: The defendant objects for the reason that

on its face it is a misnomer or misleading, “ average daily
attendance”—that second group of figures.
[fol. 228] The Court: I struck that out and made it made
it enrollment.

Mr. Woods: Then we understand from Mr. Ramsey
that those figures apply to the high school only, whereas
the remainder of the chart applies to the entire school
system.

Tate: They are two different charts, Mr. Woods, used
for two different purposes, so we may assume a different
basis.

223

Mr. Woods: I think that should be shown then as far
as values are concerned that applies to all the property of
the district, isn’t that correct, and as far as the average
daily attendance or enrollment as now shown, applies only
to the high school divisions.

Tate: I will have to check that, Mr. Woods,
The Court: Sure, it only applies to the high school, the

enrollment does.
Tate: That is right.
The Court: But the total value of land, buildings and

equipment applies to the entire two systems.
Mr. Daily: Elementary as well as high school.

[fol. 229] The Court: That is what I say, to the system.
Mr. Daily: I don’t think it is a proper comparison.
The Court: But that objection goes to the weight of the

testimony.
Mr. Woods: I didn’t finish stating our objection. Our

objection to it further is that it is immaterial what the
situation was with reference to values in 1933 and 1944 or
even in 1947 and 1948, but it is the present situation.

The Court: The only purpose of that is to show a
systematic discrimination. That is the purpose I would let
it in for.

Tate: Yes sir, that is correct, sir. If the Court pleases,
that applies—these figures—this amount applies to all of
the schools above the elementary level, because as we
stipulated here yesterday, we are not contending as to the
elementary level. It applies to the area above the elemen
tary level.

Mr. Daily: Do I understand the values include only the
high school?

Tate: Yes sir. In 1932, sir, your value at the Lincoln
High School was $68,938.13, like here, and the total above
the 7th grade in your white school is this figure, so it ap-
[fol. 230] plies only to the area above the elementary
school level.

Mr. Woods: The valuations, as well as the enrollment?
Tate: Yes sir. Then for the years 1943-44, the amount

invested on Negroes was $279.49 and on whites $500.26. If

224

the Court please, we would like to introduce this as Plain
tiff’s Exhibit No. 70.

The Court: Exhibit No. 70. A ll right.

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 70 received in evidence.

[fol. 230A] PLAINTIFFS’ EXHIBIT No. 70.

CHARTS SHOWING VALUES OF LAND, BUILDINGS
AND EQUIPMENT OWNED BY THE FORT SMITH SPE
CIAL SCHOOL DISTRICT AND DEVOTED TO THE
EDUCATION OF NEGRO AND WHITE STUDENTS BE
TWEEN THE AGES OF SEVEN AND TWELVE YEARS
INCLUSIVE

Column I shows the value of such lands, buildings and
equipment as devoted to Negro and white students.

Column II shows the average daily attendance of Negro
and white for the years indicated opposite them.

Column III shows the average values of land, buildings
and equipment devoted to each pupil, Negro and white

Column IV shows the percentage of the value of land,
buildings and equipment devoted to the education of Ne
gro students to that devoted to the education of white
students

225

O
;h

CO ^ CO
CO Tfl TH

I I I
N CO I >
CO ^ ^
0 5 0 5 O )
rH t—< t—t

[fol. 231] Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, you have your 1947-48
report?

A. Yes.
Q. Do you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. I call your attention to page 25 of that report and

thereby adding two figures you w ill get the tuition fee
paid at the Junior College, the white Junior College, and
on page— excuse me. The amount of tuition collected

226

during the year 1947-48 was $33,933.31. On page 31 of
that report, that is your 1947-48 report, you will find the
expenditures at the Junior College and that amount is
$27,757.68. During that year the college showed a profit
of $6,175.63. I now present you your 1946-47 report, sir.
That is your report, is it?

A. Correct.
Q. I call your attention to page 26 of that report. There

it will be shown that the tuition collected at the Junior
College amounted to $21,414.75. On page 32 of that re
port the expenditures are shown, the operating expenses
and that amounted to $24,163.74. During that year the
Junior College operated at a loss of $2,748.99.

Mr. Woods: Did I understand you to say at a loss?
Tate: At least the income was $2,748.99 less than the

[fol. 232] expense. The income from tuition.
Q. Now, doctor, I return to you your 1944-45 report.

I don’t have that report. If you have it, we will quote
from it, if not, we will use the 1943-44 report.

The Court: Can’t that be introduced as an exhibit
following the same pattern of the other exhibits and the
same assumption as to calculations?

Tate: Yes sir.
Q. Over the period reported then, the Junior College

for white students at Fort Smith, Arkansas, had a net loss
or the difference between the income from tuition and
the amount to spent for operating costs, $10,836.03 dif
ference and the difference represents a shortage in the
amount of income as to the amount expended. Now, Mr.
Ramsey, will you tell me who paid that $10,836.03?

Mr. Woods: He hasn’t stated that that recital of
counsel’s is true.

The Court: That is what the record shows he says. I
am going to let him answer the question if he knows it.
If you can show the records are not correct, all right.

A. May I ask what period are you covering?
Q. You have a copy of that?
A. Yes.

227

[fol. 233] Q. Now, was that paid out of the general school
fund, sir, that difference?

A. The college during that period did not operate at a
loss. When these figures or expenses are considered as
applicable to Junior College—we paid the salaries of the
personnel, which would be a dean, part of the time and a
clerk part of the time. For a good many years in this
period the college operated on a much less pretentious
basis, I would say, than it is at present. There was no
person in charge as a dean or there was no additional
secretaries—all operated out of the principal’s office.
Therefore, there was no charge additional for that, because
his salary was paid to operate the school and there was
no extra expense incurred. So, the expenditures for the
dean during the period of this 17 years here that we had
a dean, the clerk, the salaries of the teachers, plus the
actual expenditures for library books, instruction materials,
any other incidental expenses directly chargeable to the
Junior College, those four items I have mentioned—well,
actually two; salaries of personnel and direct instruction
expenses, assuming that they were the only expenses that
were incurred over and above what would have been in
curred, regardless of the Junior College, putting that
against the gross income, in the way of tuitions, there was
[fol. 234] a profit rather than a loss.

Q. But that isn’t actually the way you costed it?
A. That is a different basis of calculation.
Q. But as you have calculated your cost in the opera

tion and maintenance of the Junior College in your annual
reports, which are now permanent records, the amount
shown there is correct? Presuming—granting that our
calculations are correct?

A. Yes, I suppose so.
Q. Is that true, sir?
A. Yes. But I want the record, so far as I am concerned,

to show that actually the expenses of the Junior College
were not as great as the income of the college, because
some of those charges were arbitrary and would have
been incurred regardless of whether we had a Junior
College or not.

228

Q. Of course, what you are saying, Dr. Ramsey, could
be taken just the other way, and you could say that you
have actually not burdened the Junior College with all
of the services that it received through the school board,
couldn’t you? You could say it that way, couldn’t you?

A. I don’t know that I get your point exactly.
Q. Well, you have a man who is acting as principal and

[fol. 235] he also acts as dean?
A. Well, not now.
Q. I said you did, who also acted as Dean of Junior

College? Well, he was paid on the high school payroll but
he performed a service to the Junior College, so in that
case the Junior College got something free, didn’t it?

A. Not any more so than the Veteran’s Administration,
for example, gets my services free because I operate that
program and get no additional pay for it.

Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, in 1946-47 and 1947-48, your
revenue bounded up very high from $9000.00 a year in
1945 to $21,000.00 in 1946 and $33,000.00 in 1947. Wasn’t
that due largely to your veteran’s program?

A. Yes, we had a large increase.
Q. Now, your veteran’s program is going to begin to

diminish, isn’t it?
A. That is the general evaluation of general conditions.
Q. That means that your Junior College operations are

going to swing back more nearly to ’43-44 and ’45 stand
ards? Don’t it?

A. It would if no change were made in the tuition fee.
Tate: If the Court please, we would like to introduce

this as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 71.
The Court: Let it be admitted under the same assump

tions and reservations as the other.

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 71 introduced in evidence.

229

[fol. 235A] PLAINTIFFS’ EXHIBIT No. 71

TUITION DERIVED FROM, AND OPERATING EXPENSE DEVOTED
TO THE FORT SMITH JUNIOR COLLEGE FOR THE

YEARS 1932-33 AND 1942-43 THROUGH 1947-48

Tuition Paid to Operating Expense
Years Junior College Junior College Short

1932-33 $8,082.25
1942-43 $7,781.00 (p. 38) 11,034.34 (P- 43) $3,253.34
1943-44 4,642.44 8,172.39 3,529.95
1944-45 6,495.26 (p. 29) 10,232.19 (P- 34) 3,736.93
1945-46 9,833.07 (p. 24) 13,575.52 (P- 29) 3,742.45
1946-47 21,414.75 (p. 26) 24,163.74 (P- 32) 2,748.99
1947-48 33,933.31 (p. 25) 27,757.68 (P. 31)

Difference Between
Income & Expense

Over

Net Shortage
6,175.63

10,836.03

$17,011.66 $17,011.66

Source of Information:

Annual Reports of the Superintendent, J. W. Ramsey

[fol. 236] Q. Dr. Ramsey, this is a schedule of the courses
offered at the Senior High School. Is that true, sir?

A. For the past year, yes, ’48-’49.
Tate: If your Honor please, this is a schedule of the

courses of the Senior High School. We would like to
offer it in evidence as our exhibit.

The Court: A ll right.
Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 72 received in evidence.

Senior High School

Class Schedule First Semester 1948-49

Teacher Room Period I Period II Period III Period IV Period V Period VI
Krehbiel S-4 J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W.F.)
Brown 108 Eng III Eng. V
Tirey 117 Eng. Ill Eng. Ill
Brooks 232 Eng. I Eng. I
Tidball S-3 J. C. Eng. Ill
Grigsby 210 Eng. I Eng. Ill
Montague 211 Dramatics Speech
Blake 107 Journ. V
Hamilton 206 Latin I Latin III
Berry 120 French I Eng. I
Jimerson 209 Spanish III J. C.
Speakman S-5 J. C. (M.W.F.)
Barnwell 202 Am. Hist.
Maddux 203 Wd. Hist. Wd. Hst.
Taylor 201 Latin Am. Hist.
Jravens Am. Gov’t. Am. Gov’t
Smith 102 J. C. J. C.
Thackaberry 101 Alg. Ill Alg. HI
Spearman 103 P. Geom. I P. Geom. I
Murphy 119 Alg. I P. Geom. I
Thompson 222 Physics Physics
Buchanan 126 Biology Biology
Ward 218 Biology Biology
Beard 214 Chem. Chem.
Hixson 106 J. C. (M.W.F.)
Fullerton 104 Acct. I and Bs. Aritih. Bs. Arith.
Ramsey 207 J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W.F.)
Hoffman 208 Shorthand III Shorthand III
Thweatt 204 Com. Geog. Shorthand I
McCarty 205 Typing I Typing I
Bird 223 Clothing I
Stubbs 226 Clothing I
Hunzicker 198 Tr. Mch. Sh. Tr. Mch. Sh.
Tobler 197 Tr. Printing Tr. Printing
Cassidy 105 Mech. Dwg. I Mech. Dwg. I
Padgett 121 D. O.
Poynor 121 D. E.
Wilburn Art Bldg. Gen. Art Arch. Sketch.

Dyer Stad. Band Band
Clark 213 Glee Club Mixed Chorus
Jones Gym Phys. Educ. Phys. Educ.
Winters Gym Am. Hist Am. Hist.
Sorrels 10 th S. H. 10th S. H. loth S.H.
White 11th S. H. 11th S. H. 11th. S. H.
Day 118 12th S. H, 12th S. H.
Hynes
Horn (Dean)
Riedel (Dean)
Rutledge (J. C. Dean) j, c. (M.W.F.)
Humphrey (Voc. Dir.)
Mayo (Guid. Dir.)
Cook (Principal)

J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W. F.) J.C. (M.W.F.)
Eng. V Eng. V Eng. V 10th S. H.
Eng. Ill Eng. Ill Eng, III Eng. Ill
Eng. I Eng._ I Eng. I Eng. I
J. C. Eng. Ill Eng. Ill
Eng. I Eng. I Eng. I Eng. I
J. C. (T. Th.) J. C. Speech
Journ. VI

Latin V and VII 10th S. H. (T. Th.) Latin III
French III and IV Eng. I Latin I

Spanish I Spanish I Spanish I Spanish I
J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W. F.) J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W.F.)
Am. Hist. Am. Hist. 10th S. H. Am. Hist.
Am. Hist. Am. Hist. Am. Hist. Am. Hist.
Lat. Am. Hist. Wd. Hist. Wd. Hist. Wd. Hist.
Wd. Hist. Wd. Hist. 11th S. H. Wd. Hist.
J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W. F.) 10th S. H. (M. W. F.)
S. Geom. V S. Geom. V P. Geom. I P. Geom. I
P. Geom. I P. Geom. I Alg. I Alg. Ill
P. Geom. I P. Geom. I Alg. Ill P. Geom. I
Biology Biology Athletics Athletics
Biology Biology J. C. (M. W.) J. C. (T. Th.)
Biology Biology Aig. I Alg. I
Chem. Chem. J. C. (T. TH.) J. C. (M.W.)
J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W.F.)
Bs. Arith. Bs. Arith.
Off. Mchs. J. C. (M.W.F.) Acct. II, III and IV
Shorthand I Shorthand I Shorthand I Shorthand I
Typing I Typing I Typing I Typing I
Typing III Typing III Typing I Typing I
Clothing I Clothing III Clothing III J. C. (M. W.)
Foods I Foods I Home Mgt. Clothing I
Tr. Mch. Sh. Tr. W. W. Tr. W. W. Tr. W. W.
Tr. Printing Tr. Printing- Ind. Arts Ptg. Ind. Arts Ptg.
J. C. Arch. Dwg. Mech. Dwg. Ill Tr. Dftg.
D. 0. Trade Supervision
D. E. Trade Supervision
Com. Art, Dwg. and
Ptg., Fash. Dwg. J. C. Crafts Gen. Art
J. C. (M.W.F.) J. C. (M.W. F.)

J. C. (T. Th.) J. C. (T. TH.)
J. C. (T. Th.) Athletics Athletics Phys. Educ.
Phys. Educ. Phys. Educ. Phys. Educ. 11th S. H.
10th S. H. lOch S. H. Athletics Athletics
11th S. H. 11th S. H. Athletics Athletics
12th S. H. 12th S. H. 12th S. H. 12th S. H.

J. C. (M.W.F.)

233

[fol. 237] Q. Dr. Ramsey, how does it happen that you
are here testifying at this time, were you summoned here?

A. I was.
Tate: If the Court please, he was summoned as an

adverse witness under Rule 43B of the civil rules of Civil
Procedure. We pass the witness. If the Court please,
that makes our case.

Mr. Woods: No questions at this time, Mr. Ramsey.
Witness Excused.

The Court: Are you ready to begin now, gentlemen?
Mr. Woods: Yes sir, I think we are ready now.

DEFENDANTS’ TESTIMONY

Raymond F. Orr, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. W ill you state your name, please Mr. Orr?
A. Raymond F. Orr.
Q. Where do you live and in what business are you

engaged?
A. Fort Smith, Arkansas; zinc smelting business.
Q. What position do you hold in connection with the

Fort Smith public school system?
[fol. 238] A. On the school board and president thereof.

Q. Mr. Orr, how long have you been a member of the
school board?

A. Since September, 1944.
Q. And how long have you been president of the board?
A. Over two years, going on three now.
Q. Going on three years now?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Mr. Orr, will you tell the Court briefly and in your

own way—you are familiar with the building program

234

now in process of completion for the Fort Smith public
school system?

A. In a general way, yes.
Q. Will you tell the Court when the plans for these

improvements were first initiated—when they were first
begun to be formulated and discussed, and just follow
through and give us a description.

A. When I went on the board in 1944, of course, we
were in the middle of the war, there could be no building of
any kind. Needs were being discussed. It was impossible
at that time to discuss plans for building in view of all
general uncertainty. As soon as the war was over, re
strictions on constructions were released, we then began
and I can’t give you an exact date on it, to make our plans
toward the fulfilling of some of those needs, with the
[fob 239] result that over the year 1945-46 and the early
part of 1947, various plans were formally agreed upon in
a general sort of way, and in January 1948, a bond issue
recommended by the school board was approved at a gen
eral election—a special election. Those bonds being for
an amount of $900,000.00 to carry through some new con
struction and some repairs. As soon as those bonds were
sold, a premium was had thereon, a small amount; we al
located, the board did, certain amounts for certain specific
items. Those allocations were made in May of 1948 by
the school board; a certain amount for sanitation, for
lights, for repairs, for a new Albert Pike school, for a new
Ballman school, for a new Negro school, additions to
Trusty, additions to Spradling, with a result that the en
tire amount of a little over—something over $900,000.00
was allocated for those various purposes.

The Court: Pardon me. Was that in May, 1948?
A. In May 1948. The minutes of the school board will

show the exact date. As soon as those allocations were
made, architects were selected and appointed for these
different jobs and they immediately went to work. Some
of the jobs were started quicker than others. The present
status of that overall general program is, some work has
been done on lighting, some preliminary work in the way
[fol. 240] of rewiring, some work has been done on san
itation and providing for some schools that had outdoor

235

toilets. Some work has been done in the way of general
repairs. The new Howard School is practically complete.
The building itself is.

Q. That is the colored school?
A. Colored grade school. And I say without anybody

being able to contradict it, it is the finest building we
have in the Fort Smith school system today. Work is
under way on the Albert Pike school, and on the Ballman
school. Work has been completed on the Trusty exten
sion, and on the Spradling additions. In general, that is
the present status. Now, going from there, it became ap
parent that the money which we had through that $900,-
000.00 bond issue was not sufficient to do some other nec
essary pieces of repair work throughout the entire system.
More than a year ago, I can’t say just when, architects
helped us; surveys were made of different schools, in a
general sort of way. No bids were taken and it was there
fore determined that $500,000.00 was desperately needed
with which to carry out repair work. No new work but
merely repair work. That repair work to be pro rated
over the entire system, all building. Some would take
more and some less. Those bonds were approved at the
regular school election on September 26th of this year,
[fol. 241] Various work has been done by architects and
others right now in the process to determine what the needs
are and where it will be spent. Privately, I might say
this. The board is trying to allocate those needs first, on
a basis of sanitation and health. Second, on a matter
of protection of property, and third, what all of us might
like to have and what would be desirable. Some of those
latter things are going to have to be eliminated. That is
our present situation.

Q. Mr. Orr, in making an allocation of the original
bond issue of $900,000.00 which you say was made by the
board in May of 1948, approximately how much of that
$900,000.00 was allocated to the Negro schools and how
much of it, in dollars to the white schools?

A. If we consider the total amount available for both
repairs and new buildings, it was a little over 20%. If we
consider only the amount allocated for new buildings, it

236

was between 25% and 26%. The exact amount was $200,-
000.00 allocated for that building.

Q. For the structure alone?
A. Yes. And incidentally, that $900,000.00 carried an

item for equipment, an item for contingencies, neither of
which I mentioned.

Q. Did the board make and allocate for equipment and
[fol. 242] furnishing for the Howard School?

A. Not specially. There was an allocation for equip
ment generally—knowing that most of that would have to
go into the new building.

Q. Has an allocation now been made for equipment and
furnishing the Howard school?

A. We didn’t break that allocation down, but the pur
chases of the material for the new Howard school have all
been made. I don’t have the total amount.

Q. Can you state approximately what amount that will
be?

A. No, I can’t.
Q. From the standpoint of modern equipment, is it

within the plans of the board to equip Howard school with
modern instruction equipment?

A. I think I am right. It may be necessary to utilize
some things temporarily—eventually, in the course of
months, that will all be new equipment. Fluorescent
lighting has been ordered for that building. It is the only
building in the system that will be equipped that way.

Q. From the standpoint of modern equipment and new
equipment, what can you say of the white grade schools of
the district as compared with the plans for the Howard
school?

A. I can only say this. We had a fire at Spradling.
Only glad to burn up some of that equipment. I only
mean by that that there is a great deal of old equipment
[fol. 243] now throughout the entire system.

Q. Getting down to the $500,000.00 bond issue— that was
to carry out the repair program, have you made alloca
tions of that to the different schools of the district?

237

A. Not yet. We have been waiting on architects and
we have reports on some of the buildings now as to their
specific needs. The architectural reports on which we
based the $500,000.00 was most general. It did include
a visit and a trip throughout the entire system, every
building. Of course, it had to be arbitrary. There is no
thought on the part of the board that that total will be
spent exactly as it was totalized. It cannot be.

Q. Now, is a portion of that to be allocated to the
colored grade schools?

A. Grade and high school both.
Q. With the exception, of course, of Howard, the new

Howard?
A. That is right.
Q. And a portion of it is to be allocated to the Lincoln

High School?
A. That is correct.
Q. Has that allocation already been partially made?
A. It is more than an allocation. Although, we haven’t

yet sold those bonds, we have started drawing on some of
that money to some of the work we are doing now at
[fol. 244] Lincoln High School. That work involves the in
stallation which is under contract, of new toilets, new
showers and lounge for. the teachers.

Q. Are you prepared to state at this time approximately
what proportion of this $500,000.00 is to be allocated to
the improvement at the Lincoln High School?

A. No sir, I can’t, because that is going to call for some
architectural and contractors estimates. I know the roof
is going to have to be worked on. That contract was right
at $12,000.00.

Q. Is it the intention of the board to make whatever
allocation is necessary to the Lincoln High School to bring
that building up to substantial equality with the other
schools of the district?

A. The intention of the board is that where possible—
not all schools have running water. First of all, we will
take, regardless of schools, the matter of sanitation and
health and put them all on a par so far as we are able.

238

Second, will come the physical general work, regardless
of building.

Q. Mr. Orr, I don’t believe I asked you this. What has
been your training—for what profession, if any, other
than running your smelting operations?

A. My college work was in mining and geology, with an
engineering degree.

Q. What experience have you had or what familiarity
do you have now with buildings—structures?
[fol. 245] A. I w ill answer this way. Industrially, in con
nection with the Fort Smith schools, in connection with
the University of Arkansas, I have had either directly or
under my general approval between four and five- million
dollars worth of construction.

Q. What type of construction?
A. Industrial, school and general.
Q. Substantial buildings, brick and stone?
A. Well, the last one of course, of any consequence,

was the Fine Arts building at the University, something
over five million dollars.

Q. You are a member of the Board of Trustees of the
University of Arkansas, at this time?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Mr. Orr, have you had an occasion to make an in

spection of the Lincoln High building—the Lincoln High
School building from the standpoint of its structure, its
type, its soundness and things of that sort?

A. I have been in most of the buildings of the system;
I think every one of them over the past five years. I
am not competent to pass on the construction in the same
sense an architect would be. I can only say this much,
that I have been through it from top to bottom with most
of the others. Structurally, it seems to me, and in my
[fol. 246] judgment at least, a well put up building. I
mean by that that it is substantial.

Q. Is the structure of the building and the architec
tural design and the design generally such as to render
the building susceptible to continued use at this time?

239

A. I wouldn’t say what the situation is architecturally.
I will say this that there are things subject to having
the money which we can do to improve that building, yes
sir, and it will stand it.

Q. Is that true of the other buildings of the district,
both white and colored?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you familiar with the Junior High School build

ing for whites?
A. I have been through it too.
Q. From the standpoint of structure and arrangement?
A. That is right.
Q. From those standpoints, are you prepared to make

a comparison between the Lincoln High building and the
Junior High for whites?

A. In my judgment, and again qualifying my ability
to judge things of this kind by just experience only, the
Lincoln High building is better than parts of the Junior
High building today. It is perhaps, not as good as parts
which were built subsequent to the time Lincoln was
[fol. 247] built.

Q. They are both old buildings, are they not?
A. A part of the Junior High building was built long

before Lincoln was. I don’t know the date.
Q. Are you familiar with the Belle Grove grade school

for whites?
A. I have been though it.
Q. What is the age of that building as compared with

the Lincoln High?
A. The information that I have, it is older. I can’t tell

you when it was built.
Q. As a matter of fact, that is the oldest building in

the district?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And Junior High next and then—
Tate: I don’t want to interrupt counsel, but he is get

ting into the elementary school proposition.
The Court: I think that testimony is [admissable] on

the general proposition of the discrimination and partieu-

240

larly with reference to your prayer for an injunction, al
though, your injunction prayer only goes to the high school
facilities. But after all, there are a great many elements
that must be considered by the Court in determining
whether or not an injunction should be granted and I
think it would be well to have a general overall view of
[fol. 248] the situation, notwithstanding, I realize your
principal complaint or your complaint is bottomed upon
and based upon the alleged inequality of the high school
system, but just to help guide the Court in consideration
of it, and a determination of the questions, that is why
I am admitting that testimony. Not to be held against
you, but for the purpose of appraising the situation as it
exists in the entire Fort Smith school district system.

Booker: Composite picture?
The Court: That is all.
Q. Mr. Orr, I believe you said that the school board was

already informally discussing plans of improvements when
you became a member of the board in 1944?

A. They were in reality, discussing needs. It was im
possible at that time to talk about plans.

Q. At that time did the discussion of the school board
include the needs of the Negro schools?

A. Ever since I have been on the board, one of the
things that has been recognized—one of the first needs
is a new Negro school building, be it high school or grade
school, but one new Negro building, as being one of the
worst needs.

Q. I w ill ask you if it isn’t a fact that during all of
that period, that the board’s first consideration was given
[fol. 249] to the construction of a new Negro school?

A. A ll the way until only six months, I expect, before
the building was started, a change was made and the
grade school was decided upon.

Q. W ill you tell the Court why the shift was made
from a new Negro high school to a new Negro grade
school?

A. Along with Mr. Ramsey and Professor Greene, I
had several conversations and it was largely on the basis
of the needs as determined by Professor Greene and some

241

of his staff, that the recommendation finally was made
largely by them, that the need for the grade school was
greater than that for the high school.

Q. State whether or not the situation of the Lincoln
High at the time you first went on the board, with ref
erence to overflows; was any consideration given to that
in the discussion as to the need for the Negro high school?

A. It was discussed.
Q. That was prior to the erection of the sea wall?
A. That is right.
Q. And it was after the construction of the sea wall

that the shift in plans was made?
A. That is right. We had given thought to the pur

chasing of ground at some other location in the city.
Largely, as a result of that sea wall construction, it was
determined that that was safe.
[fol. 250] Q. Now, Mr. Orr, in considering the plans,
your plans, and the needs of the school system, tell the
Court whether or not the board or Mr. Ramsey or any
administrative officer of the district followed any pol
icy or adopted or maintained any policy or custom for
favoring the white school children of the district over
the colored school children of the district?

A. On the contrary, we recognized that colored chil
dren needed various things, for instance, by way of illus
tration, the colored teachers were put on a par with the
white teachers, I believe three years ago, from a stand
point of salary, based on the same experience and same
training.

Q. State to the Court whether the board now or at any
time, since you have been a member of it, have followed
a policy of discrimination against the colored children
of the district in favor of the white children?

A. Positively not.
Q. Or followed a policy of providing facilities for the

colored school children were inferior in any respect to
the facilities furnished the white children of the district.

A. We have not.

242

Q. Mr. Orr, are you prepared to state to the Court
what improvements the board has completed or is in the
process of providing for the Lincoln High School?
[fol. 251] A. Yes sir, I can. There has been completed
and is now in use a new Home Economics building. When
I say new, I defy anybody to say it isn’t new. It was
a building which we had which was enlarged, increased
in size, repaired, modernized inside and out, painted, and
it is the best Home Economics facility we have in the
system today.

Q. Are you familiar with the Home Economic facilities
at the Senior High School for whites?

A. I have been in them.
Q. How does the new Home Economic facilities for the

Lincoln High compare with that?
A. They have all new equipment in this new one.
Q. How does it compare with it, superior or inferior?
A. Are you speaking of size, or what?
Q. Speaking of general adaptability for the purpose

that it is provided.
A. I would say for the specific need, it was built for

that purpose and is therefore better.
Q. Better?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What else besides the Home Economics? Could you

give a brief description of what you have provided in the
Home Economics building at the Lincoln High?

A. I can do it in part—in the way of new refrigerators,
new stoves. The plan has been that there would be, I
[fol. 252] don’t know whether this has been done, it has
been three weeks since I have been in it, both electric and
gas stoves which are new—ranges; hot water facilities;
sewing facilities, including the room and space and dress
ing rooms; including toilet facilities; including the in
stallation of a bathtub. Those things I think of.

Q. To refresh your memory, do you have a cutting
room provided for there?

A. Yes sir, there is in connection with the sewing.

243

Q. Is such a room provided for the Senior High School
students?

A. Not to itself.
Q. What other facilities have you provided or in the act

of providing?
A. There has been completed the building itself for

the new, we call it a vocational building, located on the
campus there at Lincoln High.

Q. Could you give the description of that? The size?
A. It is one story, brick construction throughout, con

crete floor. I can’t give you the size. I just don’t recall
it and I wouldn’t hazard a guess.

Q. Is it adequate for the enrollment at that school,
would you say?

A. The staff out there thought it was when we de
signed it and laid it out.

Q. You mean the Lincoln High staff?
[fol. 253] A. That is right.

Q. That included Professor Hilliard and Professor W il
liams that testified here yesterday?

A. Miller, wasn’t it? Miller, I think it was, yes.
Q. And Professor Greene?
A. That is right.
Q. Now, can you describe in general the workmanship

that has gone into these buildings that you have mentioned?
A. Well, we have had the best architects and best con

tractors we can get and the workmanship there would be
equal to any new building in town. The specifications
were close and the contractor had to follow them.

Q. What other facilities have you provided for the
Lincoln High or in the act of providing?

A. There is in construction out there right now as a
part of the Lincoln High building itself, extensions at the
northeast corner and at the northwest corner, providing
new showers, new toilet facilities at both places, and in
connection with the one, I think it is the northwest corner
which would be for the girls, there will be a new teacher’s
lounge. The contract has been made for that recently.

244

Q. You have two dressing rooms; one for boys and one
for girls?

A. These will be separated there. There will be dress
ing rooms for the girls, I am not sure about the boys.
[fol. 254] Q. But showers—

A. Separate shower rooms, yes sir. Separate corners
of the building.

Q. Separate toilets?
A. Yes.
Q. What capacity, generally speaking?
A. I have seen those plans, Mr. Woods, and been over

them at the time we worked it out—as I recall it there are
four or five shower facilities at each corner.

Q. Was the adequacy of those facilities passed upon by
Professor Greene and his staff?

A. Professor Greene knew of those plans; yes sir.
Those will be in addition to the toilet facilities that are
already there.

Q. Now, those facilities you say, were all planned by
a competent architect?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And built by competent contractors?
A. That is right.
Q. The same architects and the same contractors that

are building your facilities for white students?
A. In part, yes.
Q. Will these facilities be modern in every respect?

Is that your understanding?
[fol. 255] A. So far as we are able to say, they certainly
will.

Q. Now, Mr. Orr, tell the Court whether or not in the
school board in making these plans over a period of years
and do you know to the time of actual construction, if the
board was influenced in any way by the filing of this
suit?

A. None whatsoever. No sir.
Q. Mr. Orr, you have gone into this in a limited way,

the reason for delaying the actual construction work and

245

you have stated it was because of the depression in the
first instance and then the war shortages. Has there been
any change in regard to the income of the district that has
had anything to do with that?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Tell the Court what that is.
A. The passage of the Initiated Act which permits

school boards to adopt a budget—recommends a budget
and recommends the passage of a millage tax that will
support that budget, has permitted them to make certain
plans which under the 18 mill limit wasn’t possible. That,
plus the fact that we have this bond revenue money, which
will permit us to do some of those things now instead of
dragging it out in dribbles. Of the two things that brought
about a radical change in what the board was able to do.
It was in September of this year we had our first election
[fol. 256] under the new procedure with reference to
millage and recommended budgets.

Q. With what result?
A. With the result that the board increased its budget.

It made a material increase in that amoimt budgeted for
maintenance and capital expenditures, teacher’s salaries,
and recommended that to the people and on September
26th, it was by a large majority passed and approved.

Q. As a matter of fact at the last election for the first
time the people of the district were enabled to vote more
than 18 mills tax?

A. Heretofore we have been under a legal limitation.
Q. What tax rate—
A. 25 mills was recommended and passed.
Q. Now, prior to the adoption of the amendment which

enabled you to increase the millage tax of the district,
what effort, if any, did the board of trustees make in or
der to increase the revenue of the Fort Smith District,
with this program in mind?

A. The only possible method they could pursue prior to
then was the approval, asking for the approval for the sale
of bonds.

Q. Well, I w ill ask you if the board took any steps to
increase the assessed value of the property in the district

246

and tell the Court what was done and when and in what
[fol. 257] respect?

A. The board, in conjunction with two or three other
folks in town, interested agencies I should say, city and
county, investigated the assessed valuation situation. We
were low, pitifully low. In fact, we were about as
low as we had been in 1929 in spite of the large
increase in construction. A survey was made. The
teachers helped to make that survey, house to house. Men
were employed in which the board paid part of that cost
to go through and make a competent recommendation as
to valuations. A ll of those things have resulted in an
increase in the asssessed valuation here in Fort Smith in
a very material amount.

Q. Did your unfinished or unexecuted plans for the
improvement of the physical properties of the school, in
cluding the colored schools, influence you in making that
effort?

A. In part it did; yes sir, definitely.
Q. That was one of the purposes of increasing the

revenue?
A. The board had to have more revenue to do certain

necessary things. That was the only step that could be
taken at that time to do it.

Q. Mr. Orr are you familiar with all of the 20 schools;
I believe there are 20 schools in this district, 20 different
buildings?

A. I think that is right.
[fol. 258] Q. Four of which are Negro schools?

A. That is right.
Q. The remainder whites?
A. That is right.
Q. Have you personally inspected each and every one

of those buildings?
A. I think I have been in every building of the system

except one of the Negro buildings and three or four of the
most recently acquired white buildings in the outlying dis
tricts.

247

Q. From the standpoint of indoor toilets, facilities of
that sort, all of the Negro schools are provided with in
door toilets?

A. No sir, one is not right now.
Q. Which is that?
A. I believe that is Washington. I think that is right.
Q. Can you state the reason why that is not provided?
A. It will mean a septic tank and although we have

installed-—
Q. For the reason there are no sewer facilities?
A. At the moment. Although we have installed septic

tanks at one or two places. If we don’t have to, it w ill
save money. There is some possibility of a sewer system
that will obviate the necessity.

Q. Your present plans, does that include sewer facil
ities?

A. I said this; the Board’s first plan on this $500,000.00
[fol. 259] is sanitation and health, and definitely if we do
not get the sewer facilities right soon, we are going ahead
with the septic tank.

Q. That is Washington?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Tell the Court whether all white schools of the dis

trict are provided with indoor toilets.
A. Three or four are not.
Q. What toilet facilities are provided for them?
A. Outdoor. They don’t have a water supply, there

fore, they can’t use septic tanks or sewer connections
either.

Q. How long have schools like Mill Creek, South Fort
Smith and Spradling, been supplied with indoor toilets?

A. Since this past summer.
Q. Until then you had one Negro school without those

facilities and a half dozen or so white?
A. Seven, I believe.
Q. Now, what is the enrollment at Washington; do you

know what that is?
A. Between 25 and 30; I don’t remember exactly.

248

Q. How about Dunbar?
A. Approximately the same.
Q. Mr. Orr, do you know whether or not the latest

bond issue, the $500,000.00 bond issue, do you know to
what extent that exhausts the borrowing power of the
district?
[fol. 260] A. No sir, I can’t give it exactly. But we de
liberately reserve some borrowing power.

Q. Can you state approximately what that reserve is?
A. I couldn’t recall at the moment.
Q. To refresh your memory, I will ask if it isn’t about

$150,000.00?
A. It is between one hundred and two hundred thou

sand but I don’t recall the exact figures.
Q. Mr. Orr, I don’t believe that you commented on

the cafeteria service that is being provided for the Negro
schools. Will you tell the Court about that?

A. We purchased from some church, I don’t remember
the name, a building located on the corner of what is
now the Lincoln campus. That building is being worked
over; being utilized at the moment.

Q. On the Lincoln campus?
A. On the Lincoln campus. It is all right there close

together. That will be devoted to a cafeteria.
Q. W ill you give a description of the facilities?
A. That is a building probably forty to fifty feet by

sixty or seventy feet, one story, concrete floor, being
worked over for a cafeteria that will be a very desirable
and functional building.

Q. Has that been equipped with cafeteria facilities?
A. Should be in operation between now and the end

of the year.
[fol. 261] Q. With what type of equipment?

A. Whatever it takes to make a top flight cafeteria. In
the main it will be new.

Q. Tell the Court how that cafeteria service when pro
vided, put in use, will compare with the cafeteria service
furnished the white schools?

249

A. Several of the white cafeterias in some of the white
schools are in basements. One of two cafeterias, I think,
have theirs too close to toilet facilities to suit me. We
are doing the best we can. This will be located by itself.
It will be light. It is on the comer there, one story and
better in some respects than anything else we have.

Q. Better than anything else you have?
A. Better than some we have.
Q. Do you know in what respects?
A. Well, the principal thing, the matter of light and

air and its location.
Mr. Wood: Take the witness.

Cross Examination.
Booker:
Q. Mr. Orr, you said that you are an engineer by pro

fession?
A. Mining engineer.

[fol. 262] Q. And you received your education where?
A. Missouri School of Mines, Rolla, Missouri.
Q. Where did you receive your collegiate education?
A. At the Missouri School of Mines.
Q. Did you do post-graduate work in mining engineer

ing?
A. No.
Q. During the course of your collegiate career, were you

offered and did you pursue courses in foreign languages?
A. No.
Q. Did you pursue courses in history?
A. Some.
Q. You took a deal of science?
A. Yes.
Q. Chemistry?
A. Yes.
Q. Metallurgy?
A. Yes.
Q. How long have you been a member of the school

board of Fort Smith?

250

A. Since September, 1944.
Q. You have been president also, I believe, for a two

year period?
A. Going on three years now.
Q. Are you president?
A. That is right.

[fol. 263] Q. The renovation and the allocation of funds
for renovation that you have testified to, constitutes some
thing that really does not now exist, isn’t that true?

A. That is not true, no sir.
Q. As to the buildings themselves?
A. No.
Q. Do they exist?
A. We have a brand new building out there, that How

ard building.
Q. We are conceding Howard, but as to the high school,

as to the Lincoln High School?
A. There is work in progress right there now.
Q. As to the shops out there at Lincoln High?
A. That building is finished but isn’t equipped yet.
Q. Do you have any facilities in the shops at Lincoln

High School?
A. What we don’t have will be secured.
Q. But there are not there today?
A. They weren’t two weeks ago; I haven’t been through

there since.
Q. So that, am I safe in asking that much of that to

which you have testified is in the future or on paper or
your plans?

A. Part of it only.
[fol. 264] Q. During the time you have been serving on
the board, have you had occasion to admit delegations of
Negroes asking for improvements in facilities in their
high school at various itmes?

A. I don’t know—I don’t recall, I will put it that way,
whether any of those delegations have met with the board.
They have met with Ramsey and I have met personally
with different ones several times.

251

Q. To refresh your memory, I w ill ask you specifically,
if on July 26, 1945, the attention of the board was called
to a petition presented by the colored citizens of the com
munity, relating to the need for improved facilities in the
Negro schools; they suggested that the Lincoln School
should be moved from its present location to a higher
ground due to recurring floods on the ground; at that
time the petition was discussed but definite action was
deferred to a later date. Isn’t that just about what hap
pened?

A. I don’t know the date. I know a petition was pre
sented, yes.

Q. Also on February 11, 1946, to refresh your memory,
at the annual mass meeting, was it stated that the last
building program was in 1928—’29 of the Fort Smith
schools?

A. I don’t remember what was stated in the report, but
that was true about the general building program, yes.
[fol. 265] Q. Was it also stated by, I believe Dr. Ramsey,
at the meeting and a recommendation made, that $750,-
000.00 should be appropriated—secured and appropriated,
for the following purposes: To overhaul the lighting
systems in the schools. 2. To erect new buildings to re
place the Belle Grove School, the Lincoln High School
and the Howard Grade School. Do you remember that at
that time?

A. You mean at a mass meeting?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. I am not sure; I just don’t recall that particular

thing. I don’t remember we ever discussed two new Negro
buildings. It may have been discussed but nothing
seriously considered.

Q. How old, to your knowledge, or if you are in posi
tion to testify, is Lincoln High School, the building?

A. The records that I have gone into indicate that it
was built originally in 1902, and rebuilt entirely and added
to in 1928.

Q. 1902, are you certain about that?
. A. No, I say that is my recollection.

252

Q. It was testified to by Dr. Ramsey in a deposition,
that it was built in 1893 or ’94 and rebuilt in 1928 or 1929.
That is possibly correct, isn’t it?

A. It may be.
[fol. 266] Q. Now, when was the Junior High School
constructed?

A. That has been constructed at different times. Now,
again I am not positive on some of these things but orig
inally, prior to that terrific tornado they had here, I be
lieve in 1893, because I know it got part of it.

Q. I believe on your direct examination you testified
that there had been several additions made to the Junior
High School?

A. Two, I think.
Q. And you further stated, I believe, that additions

may have been somewhat responsible for the poor condi
tion of the school, lighting, ventilation and so forth, is
that correct?

A. I don’t understand that, no.
Q. Did you not state that several additions have been

made to the Junior High School and yet it is in bad condi
tion?

A. Did I say several additions have been made? Two,
as I recall.

Q. And yet it is in bad shape?
A. Bad shape? What are you referring to?
Q. As to ventilation, light and sanitation.
A. Light, yes and sanitation no.
Q. Is it your opinion then, that the board did the best

it could at the time it made the additions to the Junior
High School with the money they had?
[fol. 267] A. I suppose it did. That goes back so many
years that I don’t know.

Q. Isn’t it also your opinion and impression that addi
tions to a building as old as the Junior High School, are,
unless the basic structure is reconstructed, will be unwise?

A. That depends on who it is. If it is a private in
dividual that might be. If it is a school board, they are
limited by their funds.

253

Q. If that is true, then any additions to the present
structure of the Lincoln High School would also be just
as unwise, wouldn’t it?

A. Not necessarily at all. By way of illustration, the
first building at the University built in 1870 is now being
rebuilt inside.

Q. Have you recently inspected Lincoln High School?
A. Recently, yes.
Q. Did you find it badly overcrowded?
A. I wasn’t there during a school hour. I know they

have got a goodly number there because they have had to
do certain things during the first semester of this year,
getting ready for this new building.

Q. Did you inspect it last year or any time within the
past three years?

A. I have been in it, yes, when school is in session and
[fol. 268] out.

Q. Did you find conditions at that time badly over
crowded?

A. No more so than practically every other building in
the entire system.

Q. Did you find classes held in the office and library?
A. I didn’t see them no.
Q. Did you find metal lockers for the children’s books

and clothing, cloaks and coats and so on.
A. I don’t recall that I saw any.
Q. Did you find drinking fountains near the steam

pipes which would make the water hot instead of cold for
the children to drink?

A. I don’t remember some of those things. I was more
interested in the general condition of the building.

Q. Did you find poor ventilation on the lower floor,
particularly in the shower room?

A. So far as the shower room is concerned—I mentioned
before, that is being eliminated and rebuilt now.

Q. Did you find oil and wax used on the floors?
A. No more so than other buildings throughout the

system.

254

Q. Did you further find an unvented stove used in the
science room?

A. I don’t recall that. I know we have 23 odd open
stoves that we are going to replace throughout the entire
system.
[fol. 269] Q. Did you find an insufficient chairs for the
students and those that are there, are in very poor condi
tion?

A. You will find some in poor condition in every school
of the system.

Q. That applies to all schools?
A. That is right.
Q. And it is not of course, any particular racial trait for

students to break up chairs?
A. That is right.
Q. Did you find some roof leaks in Lincoln High School?
A. We have roof leaks there and in several other build

ings.
Q. Did you find that they did not have fire extin

guishers?
A. I cannot answer that.
Q. Did you find that the heat control was inadequate,

that is, that the upper floor in order to be adequately
heated, would overheat the lower floor?

A. Nobody has told me that, no.
Q. Did you also discover—I believe you have already

testified that you are planning to have a cafeteria?
A. That is right.
Q. And that cafeteria is to be constructed from a

church building?
A. It is already in existence. It was built as. a church

and was bought by the school board.
Q. Brick or frame?

[fol. 270] A. It is frame, as I recall, one story.
Q. And it will provide facilities for about how many

students?
A. A ll that care to use it.

255

Q. But for as long as you have been on the board, there
have been no cafeteria provisions for the Negroes in Lin
coln High School?

A. That is correct.
Q. Now, the cafeteria for the white children in the

Senior High School is located in the basement, I believe.
Did you state that?

A. No, I didn’t say that with reference to the Senior
High. Some of the grade schools are located in the base
ment.

Q. The cafeteria in the white Senior High School is on
the first floor? %

A. I think that is correct.
Q. In one wing of the building immediately off from

the hall where the metal lockers are. Is that correct?
A. I think so.
Q. Now, when was that building constructed?
A. I believe that was in 1928.
Q. So that for 21 years you have been fully apprised of

the necessity for a cafeteria for all of the students and yet
Lincoln High School today, has not one. Is that true?

A. 21 years we have been in a depression or a war.
[fol. 271] Q. Let me say now, the war started in 1941, I
believe, in December, and the depression, we came out of
that around about 1938, but from 1938 to ’41 there was
nothing done with reference—

A. Still under a very low revenue, 18 mill limitation.
Q. From 1928 through 1931 were pretty bare years,

weren’t they?
A. School system is operated some two years behind on

taxation all the time, from a year to two years behind.
Q. The cafeteria which has been planned and suggested

for the Negroes is about 150 yards from the new Howard
school?

A. I can’t give you the exact distance, but it is in that
general locality.

Q. And about two and a half blocks from Lincoln High?
A. I just don’t recall the distance exactly.

256

Q. At any rate the cafeteria which you have mentioned,
is not on the campus of Lincoln High School?

A. Lincoln High School and Howard are close together
and it would be so located as to be much closer, regardless
of its location, than would be to go home for lots of young
sters.

Q. It will be necessary for the children, if they want to
have the vitamins that come from food, during the lunch
hour, during snow and rain, to go outside?

A. If they want to use it.
[fol. 272] Q. In your inspection of Lincoln High School,
did you observe that there is a crack in the wall from the
top to the bottom on the east side?

A. No, I don’t recall that. There are certain cracks,
but I don’t recall any specific one.

Q. You know there are certain cracks?
A. They are there in every old building.
Q. As an engineer, would you recommend additions

to a building which is constantly being undermined by
reason of these cracks in the walls?

A. What do you mean by undermined?
Q. Well, maybe I had better preface that. What

would, in your opinion, cause the cracks in the walls
ordinarily?

A. Perhaps settling or soil conditions.
Q. Would you then recommend additions to a build

ing that is settling so greatly that there are cracks in the
walls from top to bottom on the inside?

A. I have got one in my house and we are not moving
out.

Q. Would you recommend it though, for a school build
ing?

A. The fact that we are adding to that shows that we
do recommend it, yes.

Q. Are you familiar with the curriculum of the two
schools, the white High—

A. I don’t pretend to know much about curriculum.
That is beyond me.

257

[fol. 273] Q. I believe you testified already that the Jun
ior High School probably is older than Lincoln?

A. Part of it is.
Q. And some other parts are not. In the new Home

Economics building which is now on the Lincoln High
School campus, I believe you testified that part of that is
a renovation or is it a completely new building?

A. It isn’t completely new but I would like for any
body to be able to tell the old part from the new part.

Q. Has that been furnished with facilities at this time?
A. That, I believe is in use today.
Q. But it wasn’t there at the time this action was in

stituted?
A. No, it wasn’t.
Q. I believe there is a metal shop building also that

has about been completed there on the Lincoln High
School building?

Q. We refer to it as a vocational building. I presume
that is what you refer to.

Q. That has not been supplied with facilities at this
time?

A. That is my understanding.
Q. At the time this suit was instituted there was no

such building, such as you have now?
A. Not in existence, no. Contemplated, yes.

[fol. 274] Q. Now, since you have been a member of the
school board, you have had $1,400,000.00—at one time a
bond issue of $900,000.00, is that correct?

A. No, we have approval for the $500,000.00 but those
bonds have not as yet been sold.

Q. Well, you did borrow $900,000.00?
A. That is right.
Q. And that was in 1948?
A. Yes.
Q. Out of that $900,000.00 there was no attempt made

to increase or enlarge upon the facilities of Lincoln High
School?

A. No, not to enlarge it, no.

258

Q. Now, in September, 1949 an additional bond issue of
$500,000.00 was authorized. So far, I believe you say, you
have not capitalized upon it?

A. Haven’t sold the bonds as yet.
Q. Do you contemplate the sale of those bonds the erec

tion of a new Lincoln High School?
A. No.
Q. May I ask you to tell what your contemplation is,

your plans?
A. I mentioned before that it contemplates taking care

of the entire system; first of all, as regards sanitation and
health, including Lincoln, including every other building in
[fol. 275] the system. Then the protection and care of the
physical property in each building, new windows, new
frames painted where needed; and third, things that all of
us want. Whether we can have them or not depends on
the balance available after taking care of those two things
first.

Q. Out of the $900,000.00 which was approved in Jan
uary of 1948, I believe, and the allocation made in May of
1948, you also provided for repairs to all of the schools,
didn’t you?

A. No, just certain specific repairs. That was pri
marily for new buildings.

Q. New buildings were constructed?
A. Either have been or are in progress right now.
Q. Now, I believe something was testified here too

about the Washington School. Is that a school in the
suburbs?

A. That is correct.
Q. Was it taken into the system by annexation?
A. I don’t know how it came in. It has been there a

long time.
Q. I believe you stated that you do not have septic tanks

out there?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. And the drainage is bad, I believe, out there also,

[fol. 276] isn’t it?
A. I wouldn’t say the drainage was necessarily bad.

259

Q. Outdoor toilets?
A. Yes.
Q. Do they have a sewer system out there at all?
A. There is one—I can’t give you the exact location,

but it is within a reasonable distance. We hope it will be
extended; we don’t know.

Q. If it is not extended, what will prevent the board
from extending a main at public expense for the benefit of
health and sanitation?

A. Because it will be less expensive then to put in a
septic tank.

Q. No septic tank has been placed there?
A. No.
Q. In the submission of the various bond issues to the

electors in this county, did you make any representation, I
mean did the board, not you personally, make any repre
sentation as to the use of same toward the erection of a
Negro high school and the expansion of facilities for the
Negroes?

A. I don’t recall. I know we did not provide for any
new buildings in this last one voted on September 26th.
Lincoln was mentioned in connection with all the others as
needing repairs. It was primarily for repairs those bonds
[fol. 277] were asked. It is my recollection that in the
ones which were approved in January, 1948 and on which
plans had been made back in ’47,-’46, that all the way
through one new Negro building was contemplated.

Q. Is it possible under the policy and the custom of
the school board for the Negroes in Lincoln High School
or in any other publicly supported school, for Negroes to
use the stadium at the white school?

A. It was done at one time, I don’t remember; long be
fore I was on the board.

Q. Has it been done within the past 20 years?
A. I can’t answer that as to what the time was.
Q. Do you contemplate the erection of a stadium for

Negroes connected with Lincoln High School and the pub
lic school system for Negroes?

260

A. I can’t say that we do or do not. Now, if that comes
up and we are able to, why, anything along that line will be
considered.

Booker: If Your Honor please, no objection has been
made about testimony as to Junior College. We want to
get it into the record for final disposition by the Court on
their motion.

The Court: A ll right.
Q. During the time you have been a member of the

school board, various bills have been presented to and paid
by the Fort Smith School Board for the Fort Smith Junior
[fol. 278] College, have they not?

A. Some, yes.
Q. A ll of the utility bills have been paid by the board?

Have they not?
A. The utility bills are for the Senior High School,

which in turn, houses the Junior College.
Q. And the salaries also paid by the Fort Smith Special

School District?
A. Which salaries?
Q. Salaries for the Junior College?
A. Yes.
Q. And the books for the library for Junior College

have also been paid for by the Fort Smith Special School
District, have they not?

A. I suppose they have. I can’t answer that exactly.
Booker: That is all.
The Court: Booker, what is this Plaintiffs Exhibit 5—

industrial arts building? That is not the vocational shop
building, is it?

Booker: Let me see that, Your Honor. No sir, it Is not
now, Your Honor.

Tate: That building is now converted into the domestic
science building.

The Court:
[fol. 279] Q. This building is converted into the domestic
science building?

A. The Home Economics building.
Q. You mean Home Economics?
A. Yes sir.

261

Re-Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Orr, you stated that the salaries and expenses of

the Junior College were paid by the school board—by the
checks of the school board?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Out of what fund?
A. Out of general funds. Those of us on the board have

known all the way through, at least I have since my time,
that if we had spent more than the tuition brought in we
would have been subject and vulnerable to attack from
any taxpayer that desired to raise the issue.

Q. Isn’t it a fact that the school board has seen to it at
all times that the income from tuition paid by students of
the Junior College paid all the bills?

A. It is sufficient and has been to pay the out of pocket
cost.

Re-Cross Examination.
Booker:
Q. There is no provision made of a similar type for Ne

gro students to obtain education in Junior College and on
[fol. 280] the Junior College level in Fort Smith, Arkan
sas?

A. The demand hasn’t been there. There hasn’t been
enough involved.

Witness Excused.

Dr. Thomas Foltz, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. State your name.
A. Dr. Thomas Foltz.
Q. Where do you live?
A. Fort Smith.
Q. How long have you lived here?

262

A. Always. Since birth.
Q. What is your profession?
A. Physician and surgeon.
Q. W ill you state briefly your qualifications as a phy

sician and surgeon, what schools?
A. I graduated from the University of Missouri with an

AB degree; I then graduated from Tulane Medical School,
with an MD degree; took eighteen months rotating intern
ship; practiced as a general practitioner here.

Q. In Fort Smith?
[fol. 281] A. In Fort Smith, for six years. Then served
three and a half years in the navy. Following that I took
a year and a half post-graduate work at Los Angeles
County Hospital in Los Angeles and have been in practice
here since my return in August, two years ago.

Q. Do you occupy a position now on the school board?
Are you a member of the school board?

A. Very recently.
Q. Of the Fort Smith Special School District? How

long have you been?
A. Six weeks; just since the last election.
Q. Since the last election?
A. Since the last election.
Q. Dr. Foltz, have you had occasion to inspect the school

buildings of this district as a member of the board?
A. I have, sir.
Q. And evaluated them from the standpoint of health

and sanitation?
A. I have, sir.
Q. State what that inspection has consisted of and the

extent of it.
A. Primarily of the schools as a fire hazard and the

toilet facilities and the cafeterias.
Q. Are those the principal factors that you took into

consideration in evaluating the buildings from a stand
point of health and safety?
[fol. 282] A. That is right.

263

Q. Was Lincoln High included in that inspection?
A. That is right.
Q. Was the Junior High for whites?
A. Lincoln, Peabody, Du Vail, Junior High.
Q. And how about the other buildings?
A. I haven’t inspected those as yet.
Q. Are you prepared to give the Court a comparison

between Lincoln High, for instance, in that particular, the
particulars that you have mentioned?

A. Yes sir.
Q. And the other schools of the system that you have

examined?
A. I am, sir.
Q. What would you say as to the relative safety and

health?
Booker: I believe the doctor testified that he has not

inspected but about three schools.
Mr. Woods: I confined the question to those three

that he had examined.
The Court: Go ahead.
A. What was your question?
Q. My question was are you prepared to give the Court

a comparison between the Lincoln High School from the
standpoint of health and safety and sanitation, consider
e d . 283] ing these factors that you have mentioned, with
the white schools of the district that you have inspected?

A. I am, sir.
Q. What is that?
A. They are all inadequate.
Q. How is that?
A. They are all inadequate. None of them are as they

should be from the standpoint of sanitation and fire
hazards or light.

Q. What is the relative situation now between the
Lincoln High School in that respect and these white schools?

A. I think they are on a par. The facilities are cer
tainly inadequate at Lincoln High School. There is no

264

doubt about it. They are also woefully inadequate at the
Junior High School and at Peabody and Duvall. They
are typical, and I personally went to Duvall when I was
in grade school, and the same conditions obtain now as
obtained when I was a student there many years ago.

Q. Has that same situation existed at Peabody?
A. It does.
Q. Peabody and Duvall are the two largest white grade

schools in the system, aren’t they?
A. That is true. Both of which have very inadequate

sanitary facilities.
Q. Now, have you made a comparison between the

Lincoln High School facilities that you have mentioned
[fol. 284] and the Junior High School for whites, from
those standpoints?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is that?
A. They are both woefully, as I stated previously, woe

fully inadequate.
Q. Which is the superior?
A. Well, that would be a hard question to answer from

the standpoint of superiority. Neither is adequate and
both should be completely [renovised].

Q. Have you inspected the new work that is being done
at Lincoln High?

A. I haven’t inspected it. I know about it.
Q. Tell the Court whether or not that w ill remedy the

situation.
A. In my opinion the construction as has been ex

plained to me and the plans which I have seen—I haven’t
seen the construction, but I have seen the plans—it will
be adequate.

Q. Then what will be the comparison with Lincoln
High, in the particulars you have testified and the other
schools?

A. After these facilities have been added, it w ill be
superior.

265

Q. Dr. Foltz, there is a swimming pool in operation,
maintained and used at the Junior High for white children,
[fol. 285] is there not?

A. That is true.
Q. Give the Court your opinion as to the value or ab

sence of value of that from the standpoint of health
and safety of the children.

A. The first, of course, I have known about the swim
ming pool always, personally, but officially, two years ago
the Sebastian County Medical Society appointed a com
mittee consisting of Dr. Fred Krock, Dr. James Amos and
one other doctor whom I forget, to inspect that pool, and
an unfavorable report was given to the Sebastian County
Medical Society, that it was antiquated and unsanitary;
that in an indoor pool with the present system of merely
changing the water and scrubbing and adding chlorine, as
is done, that that type of indoor construction is unsanitary
and to some extent unsafe.

Q. That was the opinion of the committee; what was
your opinion?

A. I am of that same opinion.
Q. Do you agree?
A. A pool without proper filtration and other more

decent methods of sterilization are unsafe.
Q. Do you consider that pool a valuable asset?
A. I consider that pool a detriment.

[fol. 286] Q. How about indoor swimming pools in gen
eral?

A. If they are built correctly with enough—in other
words, if they are built correctly with modern sanitation,
I think they are an asset.

Q. Do you know anything about the expense of provid
ing a proper indoor swimming pool?

A. They are highly expensive, as you can know from
the Creekmore pool, what that pool cost.

Mr. Woods: Take the witness.

266

Cross Examination.
Booker:
Q. Doctor, I believe you have already testified that you

did your [Batchelor] of Arts work in Missouri?
A. University of Missouri.
Q. And as a physician, you of course, articulated upon

a deal of science?
A. That is true.
Q. Did you also blend some foreign language with it?
A. A year of French and a year of Spanish. Don’t quiz

me about it now.
Q. How is that?
A. Don’t quiz me about it now.
Q. I will not. Did you have some Latin also?
A. Yes. I had no college Latin. I had five years of

Latin in the local schools here.
[fol. 287] Q. Was your Latin of some benefit to you in
your courses in pharmacology?

A. Yes, I think so. That is not true now as much as
it used to be, I mean the pharmacopeia used to be based
mostly on Latin terminology. Within the past five years
much of that has been abandoned.

Q. Did you carry as a minor English during your col
lege days?

A. No.
Q. Did you take any extraordinary amount of English

—pursue those courses?
A. Only one course in English in college.
Q. Now, you have only been on the board six weeks?
A. That is true.
Q. And you have actually, as a board member, only

inspected three schools?
A. That is true.
Q. That is officially. The testimony which you give

here with reference to the swimming pool, was that based
upon an inspection which you made?

A. Not that I made, upon which a committee appointed
by the Sebastian—

267

Q. Were you a member of that committee?
A. I was not, but I was at the meeting when they re

ported.
Booker: If the Court please, we would like to move that

be stricken.
[fol. 288] The Court: He is not telling other than the fact
that the committee did report, and the fact that it reported
unfavorable. Objection overruled.

Q. That which you testified with reference to the
swimming pool is not based upon a personal inspection
but upon a report which you heard read?

A. Except that I have been familiar with that pool all
of my life practically and swam in it and have had any
number of parents who I have seen who have not per
mitted them to go into the pool. I have not officially in
spected the pool.

Q. You don’t undertake to testify that the swimming
pool is not of benefit to physical education, do you?

A. A proper swimming pool is a great benefit. I think
this one is not.

Q. Has it, so far as you have been able to ascertain,
has it ever been fit for use?

A. It has never since I have known of it, been a modern
type pool that the sanitation could be absolutely trusted.

Q. During the time that you were not a member of the
school board, do you recall whether the medical society
made such report to the school board?

A. That report was made.
Q. It was made?
A. I think. Now, can’t be positive about that, but I

[fol. 289] know they made it to the Sebastian County
Medical Society at the request of the school nurse, Miss
Maryella Clayton, through the local health unit. I believe
Dr. Johnson, who is the health doctor here, was the other
member of that committee and I know that report was
made to him, whether that report was made to the school
board, I don’t know.

Q. In your inspection since you have been a member of
the school board of the three schools to which you have
referred, you were inspecting them for health and safety?

268

A. That is true.
Q. And the toilet facilities?
A. That is true.
Q. And you had occasion also to observe other physical

benefits or detriments, didn’t you, or did you?
A. I didn’t particularly—I don’t know. I didn’t pay

any attention—
Q. Did you notice when you went to the Lincoln High

School that the conditions were badly overcrowded?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you also discover that they were holding classes

in the office and the library?
A. That, I don’t know.
Q. You didn’t see that?
A. No.

[fol. 290] Q. Did you discover that they had no lockers
whatsoever for books and cloaks?

A. Sure.
Q. That they had an old style cloakroom?
A. Yes.
Q. And no one there to watch or secure the valuables

for the children, did you notice that?
A. I did.
Q. Did you notice that the drinking fountain was near

the hot water pipes?
A. No, I don’t remember that.
Q. You don’t recall that? You did recall seeing the

drinking fountains there just immediately over a sink,
didn’t you?

A. I will admit very readily that all the sanitary con
ditions are not good.

Q. The sanitary conditions are woefully inadequate?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the safety conditions are also woefully in

adequate?
A. That is true.
Booker: That is all.

269

Re-Direct Examination
Mr. Woods:
Q. But they are on a parity with Junior High even in

the condition that they were in at the time of your in
spection?
[fol. 291] A. I w ill use the same terminology; they are
woefully inadequate.

Q. And the situation at Lincoln High is being remedied
while those at the Junior High is not?

A. That is my understanding.
Q. I believe in answer to counsel’s question that you

had specifically inspected three buildings, you mean four,
did you not?

A. Peabody, Duval, Lincoln and Junior High, four.
Q. Did you notice in Duval and Peabody that the same

situation existed with reference to lockers and so on, the
same situations existed at Peabody and Duval with ref
erence to the absence of lockers and things of that sort?

A. That is true. They are all overcrowded; all un
sanitary.

Witness Excused.

Ralph O. Mott, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. State your name, please.
A. Ralph Mott.
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Mott?
A. Fort Smith.
Q. What is your profession?
A. Architect.

[fol. 292] Q. State briefly your qualifications as an
architect, the schools and experience you have had.

A. Well, I graduated from Washington University with
the degree-—-

270

Booker: I believe we will admit his qualifications as
an architect.

Q. And how many years’ experience in the practice of
architecture have you had?

A. 25, of which ten or eleven were as an employee of
other architects and the remainder as a principal.

Q. What is the name of your firm here?
A. Haralson & Mott in Fort Smith and Haralson &

Horsman in Muskogee.
Q. That is a partnership?
A. Partnership.
Q. What are his initials?
A. J. J. Haralson.
Q. Mr. Mott, you have recently made an inspection of

the 20 or so school buildings in the Fort Smith school dis
trict?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the request of the school board or at my re

quest?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did that in company with Mr. Frank

Beckman?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is Mr. Beckman’s business?

[fol. 293] A. He is a contractor, general contractor.
Q. Residing in Fort Smith?
A. Yes.
Q. Tell the Court briefly, what inspection you made,

how much time you expended on it and the schools that
you actually visited and what you found.

A. We spent well, I would say, the equivalent of a full
day making the inspections, and we visited every school
building in Fort Smith and before starting out, we made
an outline of the things that we thought we should look
at in order to make a report. We decided that the things
we should look at would be fire safety, which might be
more properly in this case called “Exit safety” or
safety to life, from the standpoint of exits; heating, light-

271

ing, sanitary facilities, heating, constructions, state of re
pair, housekeeping and the general, well, design I would
say of the classroom facilities. By classroom I mean not
only classrooms but shops and other rooms used for class
purposes. We prepared for ourselves, a general outline
of what we thought should be found, or what we would
find in those various classifications and try to set up some
sort of a grading system, because we realized in looking at
some 20 buildings for as many features as that, that
memory at least, my memory is not to be trusted quite
as much as some sort of a record.
[fol. 294] Q. After you completed your inspections, I
will ask you if you and Mr. Beckman prepared a table
in which you rated all of the 20 schools in the Fort Smith
school district system?

A. We did.
Q. Is this the table which you prepared, the rating

table?
A. This is a copy which has been made by a drafts

man of the rough draft that we made.
Q. That is the table?
A. It is with one exception. There is one correction.

I find that should be made to this table. When I proof
read it, I find that there is one error. Under construction
with respect to Junior High School where this table shows
grade “B” , “A ” and “A ” , it should show “C” , “B” and
“ A ” ?

Q. “ C” , “ B” and “A ” ?
A. Yes.
Q. Junior High School?
A. That is right. Otherwise that is in accordance with

the rough draft which we prepared.
Mr. Woods: I would like to offer this in evidence as

Defendant’s Exhibit No. 1.
The Court: Mark your own exhibits, you know.
Mr. Woods: It is already marked.

[fol. 295] Defendants’ Exhibit No. 1 introduced in evidence.

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275

[fol. 297] Q. Now, Mr. Mott, what did you and Mr. Beck
man take into consideration in rating these buildings from
the standpoint of fire safety?

A. Well, I have with me some notes that we prepared
for that purpose. May I use those? That is better than
my memory.

The Court: Use it to refresh your memory.
A. Under fire safety to be classed in this report as Class

“A ” , a two-story building should be non-combustible con
struction and have enclosed stairways. Those would be
the outstanding features. In the same classification of “A ”
for a one-story building, the exits should be adequate and
reasonably close to the rooms to be evacuated. Under
Class “B” or grade “B” , for a two-story building, we ex
pected it to be of non-combustible construction, open
stairs. For a one-story building under the same grade “B” ,
we didn’t expect all non-combustible construction, and we
put in that classification those buildings that had their
exits so located to evacuate classrooms, it was necessary to
go through or pass by open auditoriums. Under Class
“C” , two-story buildings, we placed those buildings with
combustible floor and stair construction and open stairs.
Under Class “D” those three and four-story buildings with
[fol. 298] combustible floor or stair construction and open
stairways. We don’t mean to say these are grades given
by anybody else, but these were grades used by us in mak
ing this report and for fire safety, they are based upon
the general requirements of the building exits code.

Q. I notice you have only one building classified as
“D” , which would be the poorest showing from the stand
point of fire safety, and that is the Junior High School for
white children.

A. That is right.
Q. I notice under fire safety Lincoln High School has a

“ C” over an “A ” , can you tell what that means?
A. In all cases where we have given more than one

letter in the same space, the letters apply to different
parts of the building, or to different buildings having the
same name, for instance, in Junior High School the letter
at the top refers to the original or some section of the
building. The letter in the middle will refer to the second

276

part of the building, which is the center section and the
letter at the bottom refers to the newest portion or north
section of the building.

Q. That is just with respect to classrooms and con
struction; that has nothing to do with fire safety?

A. No, fire safety is necessarily rated for the entire
[fol. 299] building, because they are inseparable.

Q. Now, from the standpoint of fire safety, tell the
Court how you arrived at the “C” for a part of Lincoln
High and “A ” for the rest of it.

A. The “C” has reference to the main building of
Lincoln High School, both the original building and the
addition which was built some 20 years ago, because they
are inseparable. The “A ” has reference to the shop and
the Home Economics, I believe it is, building.

Q. And the new construction?
A. The new construction is rated “A ” and the original

building “ C” .
Q. Well, what factors did you consider in grading the

building from the standpoint of heating?
A. So far as I remember, we used just two letters there,

“A ” [fro] those buildings having a central heating
plant, either stem, hot water or warm air. We graded
as “D” those having open gas stoves or gas stoves of any
kind in the rooms, that is, unvented gas stoves or open
flame stoves in the room. We didn’t have occasion to
use any intermediate grades. We found only those two
conditions.

Q. Under that classification you found two Negro
schools with a “D” and seven white schools with a “D” ,
is that right?
[fol. 300] A. I don’t remember the number, but this re
port is correct in that respect.

Q. Now, in lighting, how do you arrive at your classi
fications and lettering?

A. Under lighting, those buildings that had adequate
artificial—■

Q. You can refer to the exhibit if you care to.
A. This will give me better—those that had adequate

lighting according to present day standards, we graded as

277

“A ” . Those that had new wiring and fixtures but not
what is or what I consider adequate lighting intensity, we
graded as “B” . There were a number of buildings that
had new wiring but did not have new fixtures. We graded
those as “ C” . And those that had inadequate light and no
provision yet made for improving the condition, we rated
as “D” .

Q. Now, in that classification and only one school, that
is, the Howard school, that is the new building, rates as a
full “A ” , is that correct?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, under lighting you have a double letter desig

nated for Lincoln High. What is the purpose of that?
A. The original building is rated as “D” because noth

ing has been done to bring it up to standard. The shop
building and Home Economics building, we rated as “A ”
[fol. 301] because we considered them to have adequate
light. In that respect, I should qualify the shop to this ex
tent, that the fixtures are not yet in place but the number
of outlets and the size of the panel board indicates that
they will be adequate when the work is completed.

Q. You have two Negro grade schools, Dunbar and
Washington, rated as a “D” , and ten white schools rated as
“ D” , is that correct, from the standpoint of lighting?

A. Yes.
Q. Now what factors did you take into consideration in

grading the schools from the standpoint of sanitation?
A. Those with modern plumbing fixtures and what we

considered first class rooms, we graded as “A ” .
Q. That includes the new Howard school and the Senior

High School for whites only, is that correct?
A. The new part of Lincoln, the entire Howard, the en

tire Senior High and entire Trusty. Under “B” , we listed
those buildings with modern plumbing fixtures but sub
standard rooms as “ C” ; those with modern plumbing fix
tures sub-standard rooms and rooms that could be entered
only from the exterior of the building.

Q. What does the letter “X ” designate?
A. Those with outdoor open pit toilets. We didn’t think

they deserved a “D” .

278

[fol. 302] Q. You have used the term sub-standard, Mr.
Mott. Just what do you mean by that term?

A. Generally speaking, we had occasion to use that
term where the floors were not in good condition, concrete
floors, many of them rough, and wood floors that it is not
possible to keep in a strictly sanitary and presentable con
dition. That might also be due to the fact that the walls
were not what they should be in order to keep those rooms
in the best of condition.

Q. Now, in grading the different buildings from the
standpoint of classroom facilities, what factors did you con
sider?

A. The classrooms were so varied in design and so
varied in purpose that we had to resort there principally
to our impression of those rooms with no fixed standards.
We had to rate those on our impression of them. I did, in
sofar as my general training and experience with school
rooms. I wouldn’t say that we found it possible to give
them an absolute grade in any case.

Q. Well, you have graded the new Howard school and
part of the Lincoln High School, you have given those an
“A ” rating with reference to class rooms. Why did you do
that? And the same thing applies to a part of Trusty and
to a part of Spradling. Just how did you arrive at that?

A. The rooms in the new wings at Trusty, the rooms in
the new wings at Spradling, all of the rooms in new How-
[fol. 303] ard, and the rooms in the newly constructed part
of Lincoln School, appear to me to be rooms designed in
accordance with the modem or current standard of school
room design.

Q. And they are the only ones that you place in that
category?

A. That is right. A ll the others are subject to change in
order to make them conform to what I consider to be pres
ent day standards.

Q. Now, a few of the schools, two or three, classified
in that respect, may be more than that, as Class “B” . How
did you arrive at that?

A. In some cases the natural lighting wasn't as good as
it could be. In other cases,, the chalk upon, or blackboards,

279

were not up to what I think are present day standards. It
might be due to inadequacy of bookcases or teacher’s
wardrobes or any number of things that go into the design
of the rooms. And Class “ C” would be those that fell
farther short of current standards.

Q. And Class “D” still further short?
A. Do we have some “Ds” ? Yes. Generally those “D”s

came about because of still poorer natural lighting.
Q. What do you mean by that? Windows?
A. Windows, the heads of which are below the ceiling

and don’t permit natural light to reach the far side of the
rooms; not enough window area.
[fol. 304] Q. Now, under the head of construction, tell the
Court what you took into consideration in arriving at these
grades.

A. Class “A ” , we used for non-combustible construc
tion, whether it be one or two-story buildings. Class “B” ,
masonry exterior walls and in the case of two-story build
ings, masonry, corridor partitions, plaster ceilings or their
equivalent. Under Class “ C” , masonry exterior walls and
in the case of two-story buildings, wood stud corridor par
titions. Class “ C” for one-story buildings might be either
masonry or stucco exterior walls, but an excess of com
bustible construction. Under Class “D” we put those build
ings of all wooden construction.

Q. Only one building in the system that comes under
that?

A. Dunbar.
Q. The two grades for Lincoln High School, “ C” and

“A ” , you make the same explanation for those two that
you did for the other grades?

A. That is right, the new and old parts. The new con
struction is “A ” and the old construction “ C” .

Q. Now, you have a heading here “ State of Repair” .
What factors did you consider in grading the buildings?

A. There again, that was based upon observation and
our judgment, because the buildings are so different in de
sign and so different as respects their needs for repair.
One building will need repair of one type and another
[fol. 305] building need repairs of other types. It was

280

simply a matter of judgment, based on our observation,
such as we could give in a limited period of time. I would
say to make an examination of the state of repair that
would be of more value would require a considerable
amount of time.

Q. Now, the only other factor that you appear to have
tabulated or considered in your tabulation is “ Housekeep
ing” . Just what do you mean by that designation?

A. That again, was based on our judgment of the man
ner in which the buildings were kept, both by the janitors
and by the students.

Q. You mean just the every day litter of floors?
A. Yes.
Q. Disarrangement of furniture and things of that sort?
A. Yes, and the general cleanliness of the building,

floors and walls; holes knocked in the plaster and that sort
of thing would come by use of occupancy of the building.

Q. Mr. Mott, as I analyze this table, in one factor of
housekeeping, it would appear that the white schools as a
whole rate higher than the colored schools, but in all other
factors, the rating is just about on a par, is that your con
clusion—was that?

A. That is the conclusion I reached. We discussed pos
sible means of bringing all of these factors to a common
[fol. 306] denominator and it was my opinion to attempt
to carry it to any finer degree than this would result in
getting at perhaps a figure that would perhaps be mean
ingless, because we found no way to reduce it all to a com
mon denominator.

Q. You tell the Court that you consider this a correct
characterization ?

A. Yes.
Tate: He is leading the witness.
The Court: I understand.
Tate: We would like for him to make his own conclu

sions.
A. They are my own conclusions.
Q. Can you tell the Court that they are correct as based

upon your idea?

281

A. This report, with the correction that I pointed out,
is a true report as to my knowledge and consideration of
these buildings.

Mr. Woods: Take the witness.

Cross Examination.
Booker:
Q. Mr. Mott, when did you start making these inspec

tions ?
A. We made our inspections on last Saturday afternoon

and on Monday morning of this week.
Q. You inspected 20 schools a half day Saturday of last

week and how much of Monday of this week?
[fol. 307] A. Half day of Monday.

Q. When did you go to Lincoln High School?
A. Saturday afternoon.
Q. Then the classes were not in session?
A. They were not.
Q. When did you go to the Senior High School for

whites?
A. Monday morning.
Q. Before or during classes?
A. During classes.
Q. Did you inspect all of the classrooms at either of the

places?
A. No. In no case did we go into every room, but we

did attempt to go into enough rooms to assure ourselves
that we were getting a representative condition in all
cases. In some cases on Saturday we were unable to get
into certain rooms, but our observation of all of the build
ings was that the same conditions that we found in one por
tion of the building obtained in general throughout the
building. And, of course, I have had some knowledge of
all of these buildings over the years.

Q. Have you been connected with and employed by the
school board as architect for the past several years?

A. Yes, at one time and another for the past fourteen
years for various types of work.
[fol. 308] Q. How much time did you actually spend at
Lincoln High School?

282

A. Oh, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of
a half hour.

Q. Then how much time did you spend at the Senior
High School, white?

A. Approximately the same amount of time I would
say.

Q. And how much time at the Junior High School?
A. Well, perhaps a little bit longer, being bigger and

harder to find our way around.
Q. It is more or a rambling structure?
A. Certainly is.
Q. Then your survey as to fire safety, heating, light

ing, sanitation, classrooms, construction, state of repairs
and housekeeping is not based upon the same conditions
in all of the schools, that is, at one time you went to
some schools when they had no classes and at other times
you went to another school at a time when classes were
in session?

A. That is true.
Q. So that that would unequalize your survey, wouldn’t

it?
A. No, it would not, because we didn’t consider our

selves requested or competent to judge as to the instruction,
or we didn’t look at the conditions so far as crowding or
that sort of thing was concerned. We were merely look-
[fol. 309] ing at the inanimate conditions that obtained
regardless of occupancy.

Q. How many fire extinguishers did you find at Lincoln
High School?

A. I don’t know that we saw any. In fact, we didn’t
consider that that was a point of any merit in their rating
as to fire safety.

Q. As to fire safety?
A. That is right. In our opinion the use of fire ex

tinguishers is only a matter pertaining to protection of
property. We were looking at the safety to.life feature
and the building should be evacuated before the fire ex
tinguisher is used and therefore, that would be of no
consequence.

283

Q. Did you look at the wiring?
A. We didn’t open up any boxes to look at wiring, but

I would say we have a general knowledge as to the condi
tion that obtained.

Q. Did you look at the general conduit as to the light
ing paraphernalia and fixtures and so forth as to whether
they were safe and unsafe as to all of these schools within
a half hour each?

A. We examined no individual outlets, but from the
design of the outlets, we know when they were installed
and under what standards. The standards of electrical
codes have varied some throughout the years, and at all
[fol. 310] times in Fort Smith I feel satisfied that they
have been installed according to the code that obtained at
the date of their installation. From the date of installa
tion we are able to judge what type of installation was
made, and the adequacy is apparent, or the adequacy or
inadequacy is apparent.

Q. If you were making a full and complete survey,
which you term physical survey of Fort Smith public
schools, would you and did you take into consideration the
crowded condition of classrooms as a measure of safety
or as an indication of safety or non-safety?

A. No, we didn’t take that into account. I wouldn’t
say that such crowding or lack of crowding would con
tribute materially to the safety or unsafety of the build
ings.

Q. You just confined your survey to the property dam
age in case of fire?

A. No, we confined it principally to safety to lives.
Q. You didn’t take into consideration the human

element, did you?
A. Yes, I would say that we did. Well, it depends on

the definition of human element. We looked at the build
ings to see whether or not it was reasonable to expect
that they could be evacuated safely. Well, the size of
stairways, the size of exits, the general location, but I be-
[fol. 311] lieve that the extent of crowding would be
limited to such percentages as would not change the classi

284

fication. For instance, a ten percent greater number of
people wouldn’t materially change the safety of the
building.

Q. You noticed the sad state of repair of the stairways
and staircases at Lincoln High School, didn’t you?

A. I wouldn’t say the sad state.
Q. But they are badly worn?
A. They are worn as many others are.
Q. Would you then say that in your survey that human

being, children, could be more quickly or as quickly
evacuated from Lincoln High School as they can from
Senior High School for whites?

A. I would like to see the report again. No, I would
like to see our report. That was my judgment, regardless
of what I might say now without it. (Here witness looks
at his report.) Senior High School we rated as “B” and
the old part of Lincoln we rated as “ C” . The difference
being that the corridors and stairways in Senior High
School are of non-combustible construction. Those in
Lincoln High School are combustible.

Q. Those at Lincoln are combustible?
A. The floors and corridor, that is, the stairs and the

corridor flooring.
[fol. 312] Q. And they are non-combustible in Senior
High School?

A. That is right.
Q. Then there is a degree of safety in Senior High

School that is above that of Lincoln, according to your
survey?

A. That is right.
Q. You did not attach to your survey terminology

given or the definition of the terms which you have ex
plained here, did you?

A. No, I did not.
Q. Nor the standard of measurement or scale?
A. No.
Q. Why didn’t you?
A. We found conditions so different, the design of

buildings so different that it would be impossible to set up

285

standards that would be meaningful to all that would in
vestigate them. After all, the whole thing is based upon
our knowledge and experience of construction and we had
to have some kind of standard for ourselves, but we didn’t
find it possible to put into words those standards so that
they would apply to every possible construction that might
be found in Fort Smith schools, 20 buildings.

Q. Do you mean to say by that that unless one had the
peculiar knowledge which architects and engineers would
have, it would be impossible for us to understand just
exactly what you mean from your survey?

A. No, I wouldn’t say that, because we have used the
letters “A ” , “B” , “C” and “D” to indicate the degree in
[fol. 313] which we held the various features of the vari
ous buildings. I think the whole thing is based upon our
experience and anyone else’s survey would be based upon
their experience.

Q. Then there is no standard by which one should go
on matters of this type, is there?

A. Yes, there are constantly changing standards, both
for fire safety, heating, lighting and all the other things.
Those standards have varied from year to year and I pre
sume they will continue to vary.

Q. Did you have occasion to inspect or even view the
boiler at Lincoln High School?

A. No, we did not.
Q. You didn’t go down there, whatsoever?
A. No, we weren’t able to get into that part of the

room.
Q. Then your survey as to Lincoln wasn’t complete?
A. I would say that our survey of the heating system

was a survey of the facilities afforded, but didn’t take into
consideration how efficiently that was operated. That was
impossible to ascertain without a very detailed study that
it would take a matter of weeks.

Q. That is what I am driving at.
A. I do know something about the installation of that

system.

286

Q. Then you will concede that this survey is not of suf
ficient importance for the Court to pass upon as to com-
[fol. 314] pleteness and adequacy and safety?

A. No, I wouldn’t concede that.
Q. Of heating, lighting, sanitation and construction and

so forth?
A. No, I don’t concede that at all. I would say that it

is. In my mind it is a good survey as can be had without
a study that would take a matter of months.

Q. But isn’t that because you are peculiarly qualified
for it?

A. That is right.
Q. If you were going to pass it on to somebody else,

wouldn’t it take you a much longer time so to as to give in
detail a survey and report?

A. Well, that depends on whether I am passing on
an analysis for someone else to judge or whether I am
passing on my conclusions. Here I am passing on my con
clusions based upon my experience.

Q. You were however, making that survey for the ben
efit of the school board, weren’t you?

A. Yes.
Q. Upon which they could and should act, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. At Lincoln High School, so far as the heating is

concerned, you only surveyed or inspected the outlets of the
heat; you didn’t go to the central system?

A. No, we inspected the nature of the installation,
[fol. 315] Q. Do you recall how many classrooms you
inspected in the Lincoln High School?

A. I would say about half of them.
Q. Did you go up to the third floor?
A. Yes. '
Q. By third floor, I presume you mean that little half

story up there?
A. No, didn’t go up into that.
Q. Did you see one floor that was completely torn up

there in the building?

287

A. No. I understood there were some repairs being
done or work being done that we didn’t get into that room.

Q. Did you go into the classroom where they have type
writers and chemical equipment both combined?

A. No, I think that was not opened for us.
Q. Did you notice that the library and the principal’s

office cannot now be used?
A. I guess that is on account of repairs.
Q. Do you know or did you notice?
A. I don’t know. Where repairs were being made, we

made no examination because the condition that would ob
tain after they were made wasn’t apparent.

Q. Now, at Lincoln High School, you have as to fire
safety “ C” over “A ” , or “ C” and “A ” . Is that because
there are two buildings that you saw?
[fol. 316] A. That is right.

Q. Which building received “ C” and which “A ” ?
A. The mainbuilding was “C” and the two other build

ings are “A ” .
Q. And the main high school so far as fire safety is

concerned, rated as “ C” ?
A. Yes.
Q. The other buildings are removed from, that?
A. Yes.
Q. They are new buildings?
A. One is new and the other is rebuilt.
Q. And they are of one-story construction?
A. Yes.
Q. And they are not yet in use?
A. My observation was that one was in use and one

is not.
Q. However, as to Senior High School, “Fire Safety” ,

you have “B” ?
A. Yes.
Q. There is a difference between the two?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, as to heating, I believe you have already stated

you didn’t make a complete survey as to Lincoln High

288

School. Did you make a complete survey as to the Senior
High School for whites?

A. No, made the same type in all buildings.
[fob 317] Q. Did you make the same type as to Junior
High School?

A. In all buildings. We gave the same consideration to
every building in the system.

Q. As to sanitation at Lincoln High School, you have
“ C” and “A ” ?

A. Yes. “ C” for the main building and “A ” for the
other buildings.

The Court: “ C” refers to the main buildings all the
way through there, he said.

Booker: Thank you, Your Honor.
Q. I believe you have stated that it would take a much

longer time for a dependable survey as far as laymen are
concerned, about six weeks, I believe you stated?

A. No. I would say that to make a better survey than
we did make, could only be made by expending consider
able time and it would be measured in many, many weeks
or several months.

Q. As to this exhibit, the survey which has been pre
sented here and from which you have testified, is it pos
sible for us to get information without the document which
you have there and from which you also testified in defini
tion of your survey?

A. Well, this is a matter of record, I believe.
Q. But the document from which you testified in ex

planation?
A. This is the notations upon which we based our sur

vey and which has been covered by testimony. I believe
[fol. 318] everything on here has been included in my
verbal testimony.

Booker: If the Court please, just for the matter of the
record, we would like to move to strike from the record,
the survey, on the basis of the testimony which has fol
lowed on cross examination.

The Court: Objection overruled.
Booker: Save our exception.

289

Mr. Woods: If the Court please, could we ask the wit
ness to make a penned correction of those letters that he
has testified about?

The Court: Yes.
A. Under the line of “ Construction” , for Junior High

School, reading from top to bottom should be “ C” , “B” and
“A ” .

Witness excused.
Mr. Shaw: Could we put Mr. Beckman on to get his

qualifications?
Booker: We will admit his qualifications.
Mr. Shaw: It will just take a moment.

Frank Beckman, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Shaw:
Q. What is your name?
A. Frank Beckman.

[fol. 319] Q. Where do you live?
A. Fort Smith.
Q. What is your business or profession?
A. Engineer and contractor.
Q. How long have you been such?
A. Been an engineer about 15 years and contractor four.
Q. Are you engaged in the contracting business here in

Fort Smith?
A. Yes.
Q. I w ill ask you whether or not you went with Mr.

Mott to make this survey of the school system?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. You have heard his testimony?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Would your testimony, if you went into detail, be

substantially that of Mr. Mott’s?
A. It would.

290

Q. Do you have anything to add to it or take from it at
all?

A. Not at all.
Witness Excused.

The Court: Court will be in recess until 1:30.
1:30 P. M. November 10, 1949 Court met pursuant to

recess.

Lewis Bolin, called as a witness on behalf of the defend
ants, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

[fol. 320] Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. State your name.
A. Lewis Bolin.
Q. You are a Negro citizen of Fort Smith?
A. I am. ' v
Q. How long have you lived here, Lewis?
A. A ll my life.
Q. How long has that been?
A. 75 years.
Q. Were you born in Fort Smith?
A. Born in Fort Smith.
Q. Did you attend the Fort Smith colored schools?
A. I did.
Q. What schools did you attend?
A. Howard.
Q. And did you attend Lincoln High School?
A. No sir.
Q. Was there a Lincoln High then?
A. No, it was not built when I finished school.
Q. When did you finish school?
A. 1892.
Q. What part of town do you live in, Lewis?
A. Tenth Street.

291

Q. How far is that from Lincoln High School and the
new Howard School, how many blocks, about?
[fol. 321] A. Four blocks, four and a half.

Q. How long have you lived there?
A. I live in the block I was born in.
Q. Have you been in a position during all of your 75

years, during your mature manhood, to observe the actions
and activities of the Fort Smith School Board and the Fort
Smith administrative officers in connection with facilities,
buildings, facilities and so on, supplied for the education
of the colored children of Fort Smith?

A. I think I can answer that correctly. Ever since 1888
they made a marked improvement. In 1888 I went out of the
grammar school to high school.

Q. What high school did you enter?
A. Howard.
Q. Did Howard maintain some high school grades at

that time?
A. Yes sir, four years.
Q. What year did you graduate?
A. 1892.
Q. You state that since that time and until now, you

have had occasion to observe the facilities provided by the
Fort Smith School Board throughout the years for Howard
and the other grade schools and Lincoln High School for
the colored children?

A. Yes sir, because I visited them all. I visit them all.
[fol. 322] Q. Will you tell the Court if you have at any
time, observed any act or custom or usage on the part of
any administrative officer of the Fort Smith School Dis
trict, and that includes the Board of Directors, in connec
tion or which would suggest to you any discrimination
against the Negro children in favor of the white school
children of the district?

A. I will answer that in this way. Now, I haven’t never
visited the white school to know what they possess as
working tools and all like that, but our schools, I have been
around those where they work, because my son was teach
ing out at Lincoln when he was a young man and I had
four children to graduate from Lincoln School, and I often

292

go to all of the schools, all the gatherings and things like
that, and I saw marked improvement. I thought it was
doing nice.

Q. Are you able to answer the question I asked if you
have had occasion to observe whether or not there has
been any discrimination against the colored children of
the district in favor of the white?

A. No sir, I never have discerned any discrimination.
Q. What is your answer?
A. No discrimination I have ever observed.
Q. Just tell the Court briefly what you have observed in

the manner of facilities furnished for the Negro children
[fol. 323] of the district, Lewis.

A. Well, back in the early days, of course, a person
would only know his surroundings, and when I went from
the grammar school to the high school there was only two
schools in town then and they sent the head people-—the
white people—as we call them, from their school at Belle
Grove down here to examine us to see if we was capable of
going into high school. We put four years in high school
and when we got ready to graduate, they came down to
examine us and see if we was capable. The school board
would always come around, Judge Rogers, Judge Youmans
and other prominent men would come among us. We felt
elevated because we was treated as people. I was brought
up above discrimination. I didn’t know anything about
discrimination when I was a young man.

Q. Do you know anything about discrimination now?
A. Yes, it is here now.
Q. In connection with the schools?
A. No, not only what I have heard.
Q. To your own knowledge?
A. No sir.
Q. Within the schools?
A. No sir.
Mr. Woods: That is all. _

293

Cross Examination.
Booker:

[fol. 324] Q. What did you say your occupation is?
A. I am a retired letter carrier.
Q. How long have you been retired?
A. 16 years the 30th day of September.
Q. And you have been living in Fort Smith all of that

time since retirement?
A. Born and reared here.
Q. You say you had a son who taught at Lincoln?
A. I did.
Q. How long?
A. Didn’t teach long because he didn’t like it. He went

to Tuskegee and finished and he went out into the world.
Q. He taught at Lincoln High but didn’t like it?
A. Because he wanted more money.
Q. Wanted more money?
A. Sure.
Q. Are you now employed in any capacity by any

body?
A. By myself.
Q. Just for yourself. I believe you stated you were

brought up without any discrimination?
A. I was, absolutely.
Q. And then you don’t know anything about people

who are discriminated against, do you?
A. Oh, yes, I read in the papers about it.
Q. That is your only source of information, that you

read some people are discriminated against?
[fol. 325] A. I see it. They won’t treat me now like
they used to.

Q. You personally are not discriminated against?
A. No, they don’t discriminate me.
Q. And you are testifying as one who has not suffered

discrimination?
A. Absolutely have not.
Q. Are you a member of the P. T. A. at Lincoln?

294

A. No sir.
Q. You are not?
A. Not a member.
Q. Are you interested in the schools?
A. Sure, I am interested in the schools.
Q. How do you evince your interest, how is it shown?
Q. How is that?
Q. How do you show your interest?
A. I contribute to them.
Q. How?
A. Why, when they ask me for donations I give it to

them.
Q. To the public schools?
A. To the members of the Parent-Teacher’s Associa

tion and I have been there and addressed them and all
like that. I am a busy man.

Q. You are busy as a retired man?
A. Absolutely.

[fol. 326] Q. With nothing to do, you are very busy?
A. I take care of my own interests.
Q. Have you visited Lincoln High School?
A. Sure, I have.
Q. Recently?
A. I have.
Q. Have you discovered badly overcrowded conditions

in that school? Now, just be fair and frank.
A. I have gone to the different rooms and I could see

quite a number of people, but I never seen no overcrowded
conditions.

Q. Have you observed that they held classes in the
office and in the library?

A. If you call it classes, I guess they did, but I have
gone there to see Mr. Greene often on account of my
grandson and there would be quite a number of people in
there.

Q. Then they were attempting to hold classes, that is
what you saw?

295

A. Looking at picture books, that is all I saw. That is
all those girls and boys was doing.

Q. Did you notice that they had a drinking fountain
down near the boiler?

A. Oh, yes. At the boiler, down in the basement.
Q. Down in the basement?

[fob 327] A. No, I don’t recall that.
Q. Did you notice the run-down and worn condition of

the stairway and staircases for these children to go up
and down or from room to room?

A. No, I haven’t observed that lately.
Q. Did you go to the east side of the building there

and notice that there is a crack in the east wall all the
way down from the roof to the ground through the entire
wall of the building?

A. I haven’t been out inspecting it.
Q. You haven’t observed that. What, if anything, have

you done to aid the Negro schools?
A. What have I done?
Q. Yes.
A. To aid?
Q. Yes. What have you done, if anything?
A. Oh, done?
Q. Yes, to aid Negro schools?
A. I finished school.
Q. A ll right, you finished Howard school?
A. Wait a minute. I finished school.
Q. High School?
A. Four years in high school.
Q. And after that you then went into the mail service?
A. No. Long time after.
Q. Long time after that?

[fol. 328] A. My father was in business and I stayed with
him and he sold out and I run a business for myself; quit
in 1899 and went to the postoffice—quit in April and
went there in May, 1912.

Q. You never did visit any of the white schools?

296

A. Only at public occasions like the school board call a
meeting. I go to the mass meetings.

Q. You go to the mass meetings but as to visitations
upon the school themselves to observe—

A. No.
Q. —the facilities you have not done that?
A. No, I never done that.
Q. Upon what ground then do you think you are in

position to testify that there has been no discrimination
if you don’t know the facilities that are offered in the
white schools?

A. Well, the only thing I could say is, I started to say
and you cut me off, that I have been a busy man all my
life. I take care of my own affairs and I have contributed
to the less fortunate. I have aided many a person to help
them though life. I have been in a position to do it.

Q, But back to the question.
A. You asked me what did I do.
Q. You did not visit the white schools and you do not

know their facilities?
[fol. 329] A. No, had no occasion to.

Q. How then would you say that the Negro facilities
are not lacking?

A. The Negro what?
Q. That the facilities in the Negro schools are not lack

ing?
A. I didn’t say they was.
Q. You didn’t say that?
A. No.
Q. You didn’t undertake to say it?
A. No.
Q. How did you happen to- come here today?
A. I was summoned here.
Q. By the school board?
A. No, the marshal out there.
Q. Well, the marshal notified you. You were sum

moned by the defendants?
A. Yes sir, by the defendants.

297

Q. Do you have any business relationship with any of
them?

A. None.
Q. Any member of the board?
A. None. Any business relation?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, let me see. Yes, Dr. Foltz; I knew his father

and grandfather. They lived there below me. Been to his
[fol. 330] house many a time, and Mr. Orr, I knew his
folks. Of course, Mr. Ramsey came in here some time
ago, and Mr. Woods, I knew his folks. A ll old timers.
We come up together, you know.

Q. That is the basis by which you happened to appear,
you are friendly?

A. No.
Q. I mean to say you have been?
A. I have done something, proud of it, you know.
Q. You have been brought up with them without dis

crimination, therefore, you are friendly to them?
A. Sure, I am. That is the only thing that helps keep

me alive, is to have friends.
Q. Then do you associate with Negroes at all?
A. Certainly. I am head of a big organization.
Q. Which one is that?
A. Masons.
Q. Which branch?
A. Widowson No. 3.
Q. Are you a master in that lodge?
A. Past master; 32 degree Mason, Royal Arch Mason,

and I am what I am.
Q. And that is the reason you are here?
A. Yes.
Q. You, of course, own an automobile?

[fol. 331] A. No. Give my automobile away. My chil
dren don’t want me to drive.

Q. Are your children here in Fort Smith?
A. My son is here.

298

Q. Is he engaged in business?
A. Works for himself.
Q. What type?
A. Carpenter.
Q. Does he work for the school board?
A. Yes, he works for them if they call for him.
Q. Is he working for them now?
A. No.
Q. He works for them when they call for him?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And you, by reason of your relationship and your

contacts and your influence, you are able to get him some
work with the school board?

A. Well, now he is just a carpenter; he is, no brick
mason nor nothing, but if any carpenter work would come
up and they would apprise me of it, I am satisfied they
would use him because he is competent. He is working
for the Government out in Washington.

Q. Were you in the court room this morning?
A. Yes.
Q. When Dr. Foltz testified?

[fol. 332] A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you hear Dr. Foltz say that the sanitary—
The Court: I think I understand all of his background.
Booker: O. K. Your Honor. I believe that is all.
Witness Excused

Mr. Woods: If the Court please, we have three other
prominent Negro citizens of Fort Smith, George Dean,
Walter Ferguson and Booker Harrison that we have sum
moned to be here, but their testimony would be cumula
tive to that of the witness that just left the stand, and we
would just like—-

Booker: Are they here?
Mr. Woods: Yes, they are here.. Unless you want to

examine them.
The Court: I don't see where that kind of testimony

adds anything to the case either way. It Is an expres-

299

sion of their opinion without being advised of the facts
in the case to determine whether or not there is discrim
ination existing. Now, in their opinion, it probably isn’t,
and they would probably testify to it because of their sta
tion in life and other conditions that would make them
testify to that. I don’t mean to infer that they would be
acting in bad faith. It is just their belief about those
[fol. 333] things, but if we go out here and go to belief,
you could summon 500 and then he could get him 500 and
five and then you would have to get some more and the
first thing you know, I would be sitting here like this with
opinions.

Mr. Woods: I just wanted to make that explanation to
the Court and give counsel an opportunity to cross exam
ine them. But we would like to call Walter Ruffin.

W alter Ruffin, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. State your name, please.
A. Walter Ruffin.
Q. You are a Negro citizen of Fort Smith?
A. Negro of Fort Smith.
Q. How long have you lived in Fort Smith?
A. 48 years.
Q. Were you born here?
A. No, I was born in the State of Mississippi.
Q. But you have lived here since—
A. Since 1901.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am a letter carrier.

[fol. 334] Q. Did you attend the Lincoln High School?
A. I attended two years at Lincoln when they moved

the high school out of Howard. When I started in to school

300

here, the upper school system and grade schools was all
combined in Howard School on North Eighth Street.

Q. What year was that?
A. That was in 1908.
Q. You didn’t attend Lincoln School as a separate insti

tution, housed in a separate building, or was two years
of it?

A. There was four years of high school but I didn’t
finish the high school part of it.

Q. Have you had any children to attend Lincoln High
School?

A. I have graduated five out of Lincoln High School.
Q. What years, about?
A. Well, it was in 1945 up through ’47, I believe it was.
Q. You say you are a letter carrier now?
A. Letter carrier.
Q. Where does your route run generally?
A. The north end of town, the scattered areas; a

mounted carrier. The areas that a footman cannot make
I make it in my car.

Q. Do you have occasion in your rounds to observe
some of the white schools of the system?

A. I have two of the white schools on my route, Trusty
and Spradling. Spradling here lately has moved off that
[fol. 335] section, but I have served Spradling up until
about six months ago.

Q. Have you had occasion to observe the other grade
schools of the system?

A. ̂ There is only one other and that is Belle Grove,
that is the old school.

Q. That is the old school down on Sixth Street?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Have you been in that building?
A. Well, it has been years since I have been in it, pos

sibly ten or twelve years since I have been inside of that
building.

Q. Have you been in any of the other white school
buildings?

301

A. I have been in Junior High, certain sections of it,
and the only part of the Senior High that I have ever been
in is the auditorium.

Q. What parts of the Junior High have you been in and
observed?

A. I carried mail there and I served through the office
there, and of course, I came in contact with three or four
of the rooms that was abutting to the office.

Q. What part of town do you live in Walter?
A. 820 North 9th Street.
Q. How far is that from Lincoln High School?

[fol. 336] A. It is five blocks away.
Q. About the same distance from the new Howard

School?
A. Same distance from the new Howard School.
Q. Have you gone through the new Howard School?
A. No, I haven’t. I was in it once but that was before—

before they had advanced to the stage of completion that
it is now in.

Q. About how long ago?
A. About four months ago.
Q. Was it far enough along that you could see the gen

eral plan?
A. See the general plan.
Q. And structure and layout?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you make such observations in the Junior High

School for whites as would enable you to compare it with
the structure of Howai'd School?

A. Well, in a general way, but of course, the Junior
High is completed. That school wasn’t completed. Only
seen the construction that was going into it; the plumbing
and the running in of the electrical services and all and
the general construction of it; and the floors being fire
proofed and all like that, I observed that in passing the
school and seeing the workmen there pouring the concrete
and putting the steel grading down for the floors.
[fol. 337] Q. Have you made an inspection of the Lincoln
High School campus recently since the construction work
has been going on there?

302

A. Well, I pass there daily. I observed what is going
on from the street. I haven’t been in the new construction,
but the old building I know it like a book because I have
worked in and out of that in civic work with the boys of
the city for the past 20 years.

Q. But you have not been inside of the new structure?
A. I haven’t been inside of those that are now being

completed.
Q. Have you been inside of the old structure since the

repair work has been going on inside of it?
A. Well, I was in there two weeks ago. We had a

meeting out there and of course, there is two rooms pretty
well torn up because there was plumbing in new fixtures
and fixing up the laboratory there and of course, it was in
a pretty torn up condition at that time.

Q. That was some two weeks ago?
A. Some two weeks ago, yes.
Q. Now, Walter, when did you first acquire any knowl

edge of the new construction program that was formulated
and is being carried into execution by the school board at
this time?

A. Well, I was out to a graduation exercise in May,
1947, and at the termination of that exercise—
[fol. 338] Q. At Lincoln High?

A. At Lincoln High. At the termination of that service,
a mass meeting was called there to present a petition to
the school board for improvements in Lincoln School and
to ask for a new Howard grade school. I was appointed on
that committee that waited on the school superintendent
and presented this petition to him.

Q. That was Mr. Ramsey?
A. That was Mr. Ramsey, and he received us most

graciously and said, after reading the petition, he said, “ I
don’t see anything wrong with this at all; you ought to have
a new grade school” .

Q. How long was that after this meeting that you had?
A. That was the following week after that meeting we

had at the school that this committee—
Q. A ll of this was in the latter part of May or June,

1947?

303

A. 1947, yes sir.
Q. Now, go ahead.
A. And he said, “Why, I don’t see anything wrong with

this petition; you do need a new grade school down there
and you need new improvements on Lincoln and I am glad
to see you people down there becoming interested in your
school system.” Those are the words, as I remember him
saying to us at that time. There was five of us on that
[fol. 339] committee.

Q. What else did he tell you? Did he tell you that the
school board was considering plans at that time?

A. Oh, yes. He said, “Well, now, we have got a bond
issue coming up” . The bond issue at that time had not
been voted. He said, we have a bond issue coming up and
the board, the school board, has planned in this bond sale
here to give you the things that you are asking for as far
as the funds will permit us to do it.

Q. Did he name any time within which—
A. He said, “Now, you people have got to be patient.”

He said, “ The bond issue hasn’t gone through, and we hope
to have this new Howard School for you by 1950.” Those
are the words at that time. That was about three years
ago. He said, “We have a building program planned. It is
going to take time to effect it because we are just starting
on it and you people are going to be given due consideration
in this building program.”

Q. He told you definitely that the new Howard School
was in the plans?

A. New Howard School was in the plans.
Q. And improvement of Lincoln High?
A. And improvement of Lincoln High. While we are

on that, sir, Mr. Corbin came out to a group of us at Lin
coln School here in February, I believe it was, of 1948, and
[fol. 340] at that time we gave him some of the facts of the
physical conditions of Lincoln School and some of those
conditions was that the—was the overcrowded condition
and he assured us, and he said “Well, when we get the new
Howard School built, we are going to pull the 7th grade
out of Lincoln High School and put it over in Howard, that
will give you one more available room. We are planning

304

on taking the Domestic Science Department out of the
main building and putting it in the new building.” And
then we brought up the point there that the vocational
building there was inadequate for our boys to get the
training that they needed in that and he said, “Well, that
will take some more planning to give you that.” But I note
that since they put the Domestic Science out of the main
building over into this old manual training building, why,
we got a new building going up back there to house the
manual training. He said, “ In doing those things, that
will eliminate the overcrowded condition that now exists
in this school. It will take two grades out, put 7th grade
in Howard; it will take Domestic Science out of the build
ing and put it out in another building on the campus and
that will give two more available rooms in the main part
of the Lincoln School to relieve the congestion.”

Q. Now, can you say whether or not all of that has now
been done or is in the process?
[fol. 341] A. It is in process of being done.

Q. A ll of that that you requested?
A. A ll of that. And we also made mention of the san

itary conditions there, and that was that in the auditorium
of Lincoln School the rest rooms were on the inside of the
building and they opened up into the auditorium, didn’t
have proper ventilation. I notice those two conditions
are being remedied by placing the rest rooms on the back
end of the building there and that will eliminate the of
fense of these rest rooms that come directly out into the
auditorium as it presently is.

Q. Did you finish the statement that you intended to
make that you started to make about Mr. Corbin when
he came to see you?

A. Yes, he asked us for suggestions on how we could
remedy some of these things. He said they didn’t know
just how much funds that they would have and he wanted
to get an idea from a cross section of the citizens, colored
citizens, of just their needs down there and the things that
was pinching us most, and he talked with us I guess about
45 minutes or an hour there and he asked for suggestions
in that meeting, of what we thought would give us relief
in the high school, because we had asked for and had been

305

promised a new grade school and at that time, we didn’t
feel that we could get both schools at the same time,
[fol. 342] and the grade school was the one that was suf
fering the most because it was the small children that
needed to be taken care of first. As they grow up and
older, they would be able to take care of themselves more
properly. So we asked that everything be centralized on
the Howard grade school.

Q. Now, do you think of anything else—any other
knowledge that you may have had about this building
program prior to the filing of this suit?

A. Of course, when we were meeting with Mr. Ram
sey—

Q. You are still talking about this meeting in ’47?
A. Yes. When we met with him, why, there was

nothing in our minds or that we knew about, that any
suit was going to be pending.

Q. I understand about that, but any action that your
group took, your committee took?

A. Oh, well, of course that was just a little foresighted
ness on our part. Mr. Ramsey, he suggested that we peo
ple accept a site for the school further out.

Q. The new school?
A. Yes. The new Howard school, possibly out in Mid

land Heights; he said, “Go out there and get five or ten
acres up there and put you up a real nice structure out
there.” We told him most of our children and residences
and businesses was down in the heart of Fort Smith and
we would prefer having it more centrally located where
[fol. 343] there wouldn’t be so much transportation or
children wouldn’t have to go so far to school. He asked
us, well said, “Where can we put it?” Well, the members
of that committee cited him to two sites; one was in the
1200 block on 9th and 10th Streets; there was a square in
there and it only had at that time two buildings on it. We
told him it was possible the school board could get the
control of that to put the new Howard School. That is in
the 1200 block on 9th running to 10th Street, a square in
there. We told him if that could not be acquired that there
was one in the same block, no, 1300 block on 8th Street there
was a square in the 1300 block where the new Howard

306

School now is, that we thought could be acquired by the
school board. And he said, “Well, we don’t have any
funds to buy any grounds or anything just now but we
will keep that in mind. Well, this club, the Colored Men’s
Progressive Club, of which I happen to be a member, why,
we were deeply interested in the school set-up here. And
we said, “We’ll tell you what we’ll do. To cinch the
deal, we’ll go ahead and buy the property there, and it is
possible the school board, if they ever get around to it,
and are going to put the Howard here in town, they will
need that, to keep it from being exploited by somebody
finding out about it.” The club, of which I am a member,
we made personal contributions to a fund which we went
[fol. 344] in and used and went in there and acquired
twelve lots in that area.

Q. All except two lots in the block?
A. A ll except two lots, I believe, in the block. On one

of those lots there was a church. They had a church
building on the southwest corner of it, and on the south
east corner, it was owned by an individual. And Mr.
Ramsey, incidentally, had a little trouble in getting that
lot on the corner there.

Q. Did the school board afterwards acquire the lot
from your club?

A. They acquired the whole square.
Q. As a matter of fact, I made that deal with you and

George Dean personally?
A. I wasn’t one of the trustees, but I was one of the

officers in that club, but George Dean and Buck Harrison,
I believe, were the trustees of this club and you made
that deal with them, wherein you bought the property
from us to put the new Howard School.

Q. Is it your understanding that the board also ac
quired the other two lots?

A. They own it. It is my understanding that the
church building which is a quonset type of building, with
a concrete floor in it, is to be used to convert it into a
[fol. 345] cafeteria for both schools. That is what we
were told.

307

Q. In May or June, 1947, you had faith enough in the
promises that the school board made, to go and buy those
lots and hold them?

A. We had faith enough, yes. We felt that Mr. Ram
sey, as a representative of the school board, he told us
that they were going to do things; we just had faith enough
to believe they were going to be done, and without any
coercion from him or anybody else, we jumped in and
bought this property. We said, “ If they want to put us in
Midland Heights, we could say, we have a site right here.”

Q. And what he told you, it has now been fulfilled?
A. It has now been fulfilled.
Q. How long have you lived down there in the neigh

borhood you live in now?
A. 45 years.
Q. During that time have you had occasion to observe

what the attitude, custom, policy, actions of the school
authorities, including the school board has been toward
furnishing facilities for the Negro children?

A. The school board, in my estimation, sir, has been
very considerate of the Negro school system. We know
this, that the school board is an elective office. Now, this is
my view of it. And that they have got to cater to the masses
of the people and they just can’t go out and arbitrarily
[fol. 346] do things that they have in their mind or heart
to do, but they have got to soften the people up and get
them ready for these things.

Q. Tell the Court whether or not you have ever ob
served or if you now observe, any action or policy or cus
tom on the part of the school board or any administrative
officer of the school system that suggests to you that there
has been discrimination practiced against the colored school
children in favor of the white school children in these
school affairs?

A. I have never had it expressed that there was any
discrimination.

Q. Have you ever observed any evidence of discrimi
nation yourself?

A. No. The school board has been very sympathetic
with us, and at different times we have gone and asked

308

them for changes in curriculum and asked them for this,
that or the other. They say, “ If you folks need it down
there, we will see what we can do! about it.”

Q. Have they usually done something about it?
A. Usually done something about it.
Q. I don’t believe this has been shown yet. You stated

that the center of the Negro population of Fort Smith is in
the area around those two schools, Lincoln and Howard
schools?
[fol. 347] A. Yes sir.

Q. Can you tell the Court what proportion of the Negro
population is down there in the immediate vicinity of those
two schools, or could you give that?

A. Well, I hadn’t given it any thought. Of course, here
is a condition that exists in Fort Smith here and that is
that our people are scattered all over Fort Smith. We
don’t really have what you might call a Ghetto, where we
are all housed up. We are scattered in some of the prom
inent sections of the town of Fort Smith. The town has
grown up around them. They are still there and still en
joying the privileges of their homes without being dis
turbed in any way by the elements that have grown up
around them.

Q. By and large, there are three centers of Negro pop
ulation in Fort Smith?

A. Yes sir.
Q. The large group around in the Lincoln-Howard neigh

borhood?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Then a small group around Dunbar?
A. That is right.
Q. Then another small group in the vicinity of Wash

ington School?
A. That is correct.

[fol. 348] Booker: Your Honor, we thought maybe by not
interposing an objection, that an end would soon come to
this. This really does not have any probative value what
soever.

Mr. Woods: It will before we get through.

309

The Court: That is all right to show what the center
of population is. That might be helpful.

Booker: A ll of this is incompetent, irrelevant and im
material.

The Court: Go ahead.
Mr. Woods: That is all. Take the witness.

Cross Examination.
Booker:
Q. I believe you stated you had five children graduated

from Lincoln?
A. Yes.
Q. Name them, please?
A. Walter Havis Ruffin.
Q. How old is he now?
A. He is 29.
Q. Where is he?
A. Seattle, Washington.
Q. He is not in Fort Smith?
A. No sir.

[fol. 349] Q. Name the next one.
A. The next one is Alma Leona Peet.
Q. She is now married?
A. She is.
Q. Where is she?
A. Richmond, California.
Q. Not in Fort Smith?
A. No.
Q. Next one?
A. Ella Vessa Black.
Q. Where is she?
A. Bedford, Indiana.
Q. Not in Fort Smith?
A. No sir.
Q. Name the next one.
A. Ferda Patsy Granger.
Q. Is she married?

310

A. Married.
Q. Where is she living?
A. Chicago.
Q. The next one?
A. The next one is a grandchild.
Q. No, I mean your children, you said you had five.
A. I had five of my immediate home, the grandchild in

my home.
[fol. 350] Q. Name the grandchild.

A. Her name is Peggy Gill.
Q. Where is she?
A. Chicago.
Q. A ll of your children who graduated, they have gone

north and east? Haven’t they?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And you are not interested in additional facilities

for these Negro boys and girls that are down here now,
are you?

A. I am deeply interested in every child, white and
black in Fort Smith.

Q. Did you know the facilities and conditions at Lin
coln High School are overcrowded now?

A. They are overcrowded from this standpoint.
Q. Just answer my question. Did you know it?
A. No. I will say no.
Q. You didn’t know it. A ll right. Did you know that

classes were held in the office and the library?
A. I believe you are right there, that I have gone out

there—the vocational classes that I attended, that I have
been in the school in the evening, I am never there through
the day, they have had some vocational classes there where
they have had these vocational trainees in the principal’s
office and the library.
[fol. 351] Q. Did you also know that there are no metal
lockers out "there for the books and cloaks and wraps of
those children out there at Lincoln High School?

A. Well, yes, I brought that up to Mr. Ramsey in our
meeting.

311

Q. You brought it up, didn’t you? When, in ’47?
A. Yes,
Q, Did you also know that the drinking fountain out

there was near steam pipes, which when heated, heated
the water that the children had to drink?

A. Well, one at the front end of the building—at the
front entrance there is near a radiator but the school has
acquired an electric drinking fountain that sits inside the
auditorium and is in operation every day.

Q. Is that the one that has the sink at the bottom of it?
It is right over a sink.

A. I didn’t see any sink there.
Q. Aren’t there three together?
A. No. This other is an electric fountain that sits—
Q. That was bought by the student council?
A. I am telling you what I saw. I don’t know who

bought it.
Q. Are you a member of the student council or your

children or great grandchildren?
A. No.
Q. You also know that the chairs and tables are old

and outmoded, aren’t they?
[fol. 352] A. The most of them are old and outmoded; the
desks are old and outmoded.

Q. You also know that on the east side of the Lincoln
High School building there is a crack in the wall from the
roof to the ground?

A. Yes sir.
Q. That is true, isn’t it?
A. That is true.
Q. And that to the right of that, there are some other

cracks up near the roof in the brick material which had
been covered over with cement?

A. That is true.
Q. You also know on the other side of the building

there are cracks and crevices?
A. I only noticed the east side.

312

Q. On the side where you say they put up this new
toilet. How do you know they are putting up new toilets,
is there anything there to indicate it?

A. Nothing but what I see on the ground there.
Q. You just see an excavation?
A. I see excavation and some pipes and I assume that is

going on back there.
Q. Now, you have been inside of the building often,

haven’t you?
A. Very often.

[fol. 353] Q. Have you been inside the Senior High
School, white?

A. No.
Q. You have not?
A. No.
Q. Have you been inside and made an inspection of

the Junior High School, white?
A. No.
Q. You have not?
A. No. I have been in the basement that contains the

swimming pool, and as I told you, I have carried mail to
the Junior High and have been to the office and I have ob
served two or three of the rooms that are adjacent to that
office.

Q. When you went there, you were carrying mail, you
were there on official business?

A. Yes.
Q. You were not there on an inspection?
A. No sir.
Q. Now, would you say you are qualified now to draw a

comparison as to facilities; now, just be honest about it.
A. I wouldn’t be.
Q. No, you are not, are you?
A. Not to draw a comparison between the two institu

tions.
Q. Now, I believe you stated that your club—no before

we get to that. In 1947 your club, the Business Men’s
[fol. 354] Progressive Club, is it?

313

A. Uh-huh.
Q. Composed of Negro business men of Fort Smith?
A. Yes.
Q. How many members?
A. At the present time there are thirty of us.
Q. No women?
A. No women.
Q. Are you connected with the National Negro Business

League?
A. No. We have no connection with any outside—
■Q. You have no connection with any Negro organization

of natural repute and standing?
A. No.
Q. At the time you had this meeting with Mr. Ramsey,

I believe, you didn’t go to the board meeting proper, did
you, with your petition?

A. We presented our petition to Mr. Ramsey.
Q. You took it to Dr. Ramsey’s office?
A. We took it to the Administration building.
Q. Now, I believe that was in ’47?
A. ’47.
Q. What month?
A. As I remember, it was at the close of school and it is

always in May, the end of May.
Q. Just before that time, you had had a school election

[fol. 355] in March of ’47, hadn’t you? It was in March at
that time, September now?

A. Yes, I believe at that time it was in the Spring.
Q. Did you participate in the school election of March

’47?

A. As I remember, I did.
Q. Did you have a conference with Dr. Ramsey or any

member of the school board with reference to any matters
to be presented to the voters in March of ’47?

A. No.
Q. Either by yourself personally or through your or

ganization?
A. No.

314

Q. Then when you had this conference in 1947, Dr.
Ramsey stated that they were going to submit a bond is
sue in 1948, $900,000.00 and it was submitted and you
worked for it, didn’t you?

A. Sure.
Q. Got out and got the people to vote for it?
A. No, I haven’t been in the service.
Q. Nothing wrong about it; did you or didn’t you?
A. I didn’t.
Q. You knew about it?
A. I knew about it.
Q. You knew Dr. Ramsey told you the purpose of it was

to erect schools and renovate and make things better?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 356] Q. Now, at that particular time then had you
already purchased these lots over there where Howard
School is now located?

A. Let’s see. I believe as near as I can remember we
had.

Q. You had already purchased them?
A. We had already purchased them.
Q. How much did you pay for them?
A. We paid $3500.00 for them.
Q. And you purchased them when?
A. Without the record—I hadn’t thought.
Q. That is all right.
A. I ’ll tell you what, then you can draw your own

conclusions.
Q. A ll right.
A. We bought the property and held it a year until the

school board bought it from us.
Q. Then the school board bought it from you in ’48?
A. ’48.
Q. And you paid taxes on it for the year’s time which

you held it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How much did you realize from your sale?

315

A. $5000.00.
Q. $5000.00?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Then you were not such a grand benefactor to the

school system and to the Negro children, were you?
[fol. 357] A. Well, I leave that to your discretion.

Q. You profited from it?
A. We will leave that to your discretion.
Booker: That is all.
Witness Excused

J. W. Ramsey, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. You are J. W. Ramsey who has heretofore testified

in this action?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And you are the superintendent of the Fort Smith

public school system?
A. Correct.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, I see you have with you some papers.

I will ask you if you have compiled some statistics and
placed them in the form of exhibits to be used?

A. I have.
Q. W ill you please sir, refer to the one which is num

bered 1 and is numbered Defendant’s Exhibit No. 2?
A. Yes.
Q. It is titled “ Federal Census” and appears on its

face to be a recapitulation of the Federal census figures
for Fort Smith, Arkansas, for the years 1930, 1940 and
[fol. 358] 1949. Did you prepare this exhibit?

A. I did.
Q. What was the source of your figures?
A. The 1930 and 1940 data came from a copy of the

Federal census publication entitled “ 16th Census of the

316

United States, Characteristics of Population” , prepared
under the direction of J. C. Capt, director of Federal cen
sus. And the data for 1949 appeared in a publication of
the U. S. Census [Brueau], “ Current Population Series,
dated June 15, 1949” . Numbered Series P-28, No. 381.
And supplementary to that an article on the front page
of the Fort Smith Times Record dated April 7, 1949 which
was a reprint of a release from Washington regarding the
1949 special census.

Q. The 1949 census was a special census conducted by
the Federal Bureau?

A. Yes.
Mr. Woods: We offer that as Defendant’s Exhibit

No. 2.
The Court: Have you furnished them a copy?
Mr. Daily: Yes sir.

Defendant’s Exhibit No. 2 Received in Evidence.

[fol. 359] DEFENDANT’S EXHIBIT No. 2

FEDERAL CENSUS

Fort Smith, Arkansas

Per- Per
centage centage

Year Total White Colored White Colored

(1) 1930 31,429 27,962 3,467 89.0 11.0
(1) 1940 36,584 32,383 4,201 88.6 11.4
(2) 1949 50,724 46,742 3,982 92.2 7.8

(1) 16th Census of the United States, 1940.
Characteristics of Population, Arkansas.
U. S. Department of Commerce, Jesse H. Jones,
Secretary.

(2) Current Population Series, Special Censuses,
June 15, 1949, Series P-28, No. 381.
Fort Smith Times Record, April 7, 1949.

$ ^

317

Q. Defendants’ Exhibit No. 3 is entitled “Average
Daily Attendance—Fort Smith Public Schools” , and is a
compilation or purports to be a compilation of the average
daily attendance of the high school, elementary, both
white and colored of the schools for the years 1930, 1940
and 1949. Did you compile that?

A. I did.
[fol. 360] Q. And what was your source of material, please
sir?

A. It was compiled from the cumulative records on file
in the board of education offices, which in turn, of course,
were reported by the principals of the individual schools
in the Fort Smith school system.

Q. You took it from the original records, permanent
records of the Fort Smith school system?

A. That is right.
Mr. Daily: We offer that, Your Honor, as Defendants’

Exhibit No. 3.
The Court: A ll right.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 3 Received in Evidence.

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No. 3

AVERAGE DAILY ATTENDANCE
FORT SMITH PUBLIC SCHOOLS

All White White Colored Colored

Year Schools H. S. Elem. H. S. Elem.

1930 6,131 2,117 3,444 252 318

1940 5,887 2,208 3,098 268 319

1949 6,845 2,335 3,910 271 329

Year Total

High School A. D. A.

Percentage Percenta
White Colored White Colored

1930 2,369 2,117 252 89.4 10.6

[fol. 361]
1940 2,476 2,208 268 89.2 10.8

1949 2,606 2,335 271 89.6 10.4

318

Elementary Schools A. D. A.

Percentage Percentage
Year Total White Colored White Colored
1930 3,762 3,444 318 91.5 8.5
1940 3,417 3,098 319 90.7 9.3
1949 4,239 3,910 329 92.2 7.8

* * *

Q. Now Defendants’ Exhibit No. 4 is captioned “Per
Capita Cost of Instruction, Fort Smith Public Schools” and
purports to be a tabulation of the annual per capita cost
m all schools, white schools, colored schools, and then
further broken down into high and elementary schools for
both races for the years 1945 through 1949, with the
tabulation of percentage increase or decreases. Did you
prepare that tabulation?

A. I did.
Q. And what was your source of material for it?
A. The financial records of the public schools on file

in the offices of the Board of Education.
Q. Kept and maintained under your direct supervision

and control?
A. That is right.
Mr. Daily: We offer Defendants’ Exhibit No. 4.

[fol. 362] Tate: We consent to this, Your Honor, if we
have the right—with the reservation that we will be able
to check these figures for accuracy and verity.

Mr. Daily: Yes.
The Court: Any of these exhibits may be checked if

it is done before the trial is ended, because when the trial
ends, it is ended.

Mr. Daily: They are all subject to correction for any
mathematical errors.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 4 Received in Evidence.

319

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No. 4

PER CAPITA COST OF INSTRUCTION
FORT SMITH PUBLIC SCHOOLS

All White Colored White White Colored Colored
Year Schools Schools Schools H. S. Elem. H. S. Elem.
1945-46 83.18 84.27 71.86 104.35 70.56 84.18 62.36
1946-47 94.30 94.57 91.54 116.84 78.66 107.32 79.12
1947-48 105.68 106.30 99.35 127.52 92.33 103.91 94.98
1948-49 105.40 105.68 103.14 134.89 88.25 124.88 85.23

Increase in per capita cost over previous year:

1946-47 13% 12% 27% 12% 11% 27% 27%
1947-48 12% 12% 9% 9% 17% —3% 20%
1948-49 — % — % 4% 6% —4% 20% --10%

[fol. 363] Q. Take up the next one, labeled Defendants’
Exhibit No. 5 which is entitled “Analysis of Enrollment,
Lincoln High School, 1949” , and appears to be a tabulation
of the number enrolled in the various grades in the school,
accepted as to those inside the district and those outside
the district. First, please sir, explain what is meant by
those two explanatory labels, inside and outside district.

A. Inside the district we mean the students who are
bona fide residents and patrons of the Fort Smith schools,
those living in the Fort Smith school district and by out
side the district, we mean those students who attend the
Lincoln High School but who live in other cities or other
counties, and incidentally, we have them from at least four
or five counties. I could enumerate them if you care to.

Q. Well, you do have according to this tabulation, 74
of a total of 323 enrolled students this year who are not
residents of this school district?

A. Correct.
Q. But attend the Lincoln High School on the day

school basis?
A. Yes, they do. Most of them are transported from

their communities. A few of them board here, two from
Fayetteville, for example.
[fol. 364] Q. These from Van Buren, Alma, and Hunting-
ton, they are not residents of the district?

320

A. No sir, they are transported.
Q. Do they pay a tuition?
A. The district pays a tuition for them.
Q. I w ill ask you whether or not those 74 are included

in the average daily attendance listed in Defendants’ Ex
hibit 3?

A. No, not these particular ones, because this exhibit
here has reference to the current season 1949-50 whereas
the figures in that exhibit you refer to there, were of the
previous year. Last year there were 82 out of the district.

Q. I w ill ask you were there non-resident students at
Lincoln High School last year?

A. Yes, more than there are this year.
Q. Were those students included in this average daily

attendance figure on Defendants’ Exhibit 3?
A. Yes.
Q. And were they included when the percentage cal

culation was arrived at in Defendants’ Exhibit 3 as to the
percentage of colored and percentage of white in the aver
age daily attendance in the white schools?

A. Yes, I am sure they were. I am sure of that.
Mr. Daily: We offer in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit

[fol. 365] No. 5.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 5 Received in Evidence.

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No. 5

ANALYSIS OF ENROLLMENT

Lincoln High School
1949

GRADES

7 8 9 10 11 12 Total
Inside District 58 40 50 48 32 21 249
Outside District 6 12 18 19 9 10 74

TOTAL 64 52 68 67 41 31 323
* & &

321

Q. If you will, take up please sir, Defendants’ Exhibit
No. 6 which is entitled “Value of School Property, Fort
Smith School District” , and purports to set out the valua
tion for the years 1948-49 of the property of the white
schools and of the colored schools and percentage of each,
and then figures on the same basis when the present build
ing program is completed. Did you prepare this compila
tion?

A. I did.
Q. What was your source of material, please?
A. The first line horizontally there showing the values

1948-49, are the figures, for example, the first column
there under “ white” , that represents the recorded value
in our books of the real estate, buildings, and equipment
[fol. 366] of the white schools, in the first column and the
colored schools, the second column. That is as of June 30,
1949. And, of course, the next two figures horizontally are
these first two reduced to percentages. The second line of
figures entitled “When present building program is com
pleted” has added to the figures immediately above the
following, in the case of the white schools $693,000.00 and
to the colored schools $300,000.00. That is roughly the dis
tribution—the expenditure that will occur out of the bond
issue that has been labeled here in the testimony as the
1948 bond issue.

Q. Now, is that new money that you have added in the
second column of each? Does that represent building im
provements presently under construction?

A. Yes.
Q. They are now in the process of being erected, it is

not some future plan?
A. That is right. It don’t involve bonds that are to be

sold that was authorized.
Q. You have this money and you are laying the brick?
A. Yes.
Mr. Daily: We offer in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit

No. 6.
Tate: We object to so much of this that has to do with

future plans. We contend the plaintiffs have the right to
[fol. 367] have their rights and relations determined be-

322

tween these parties as of the time the cause of action arose
and at the time this suit is adjudicated.

The Court: Objection overruled.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 6 Received in Evidence.

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No, 6

VALUE OF SCHOOL PROPERTY
FORT SMITH SCHOOL DISTRICT

Percentage Percentage
White Colored White Colored

1948-49 $1,991,071
When present

$124,511 94.3 5.7

building pro
gram is com
pleted $2,784,071 $424,511 86.8 13.2

❖ ❖ ❖

Q. Turn to Exhibit No. 7, please Mr. Ramsey and it is
labeled simply “Data on Fort Smith Public School Build
ings” , and it purports to be a listing, a descriptive listing
of the various schools within the system. I will ask you
please sir, if you prepared it?

A. I did.
Q. Now, would you explain please sir, to the Court

what it embraces.
ffol. 368] A. I might say that the caption is somewhat a
misnomer in that it doesn’t describe actually all of the data
that appears on the sheet. The first three columns there
to the left have to do with the enrollment, the number of
teachers employed and the teachers’ load. That is to say
you divide the number of enrollment in any given school
by the number of teachers employed, that gives you the
teacher load, so actually the chart has two items on it,
personnel factors, pupils and teachers, teacher load, and
then it has the remaining nine columns that have to do
with the buildings, the age of the buildings, the type of
construction, the type of sanitary facilities provided, heat
ing, water services, cafeteria services, if any, health, at-

323

tendance service, supervisory service. Those items I have
just read are listed horizontally and the school buildings
are listed vertically, so by picking out any item of the
school, you could find whether or not that facility or that
service was provided.

Q. Now, does this exhibit cover all of the schools in the
Fort Smith school district system?

A. Yes sir.
Q. White and colored?
A. That is right.

[fol. 369] Q. Now, you have referred to teacher load.
Just what does that mean?

A. That is the number of pupils per teacher in that
school. It is the average number of pupils per teacher. It
is very seldom true that in any given school every teacher
has exactly the same number of pupils, but the teacher
load is simply for a given building. Of course, the teacher
load for any one teacher is the number of pupils she has
in her room—the average for the building. The average
number of pupils each teacher had in her room, that is
arrived at by dividing the total enrollment by the num
ber of teachers.

Q. Are there any recommended standards, maximum
and minimum for that?

A. Yes, there are. I am not sure what authority I
would quote, but the current thinking on that is that any
load in excess of 30 would be more than a teacher should
have.

Q. Thirty is accepted as—
A. Yes. And in high schools 25 is the accepted stand

ard. Those standards, however, vary, and the tendency
has been in recent years to urge the reduction of the
teacher load on the theory that the smaller number of
pupils they have, the better training that will be provided.

Q. Now, what was your source of material for the first
three columns?
[fol. 370] A. That is current information. That is based
on the enrollment figures and the number of teachers
employed as of the first month, we will say, of the current
school year.

324

Q. Is that taken from the official school records in your
office?

A. Oh, yes.
Q. Now, the remainder of the columns having refer

ence to the physical characteristics of the various build
ings, what was your source of information in compiling
that part of the exhibit?

A. Part of it is based on official records. A good deal
of it is based on personal observation.

Q. When did you last make an inspection, a personal
inspection of the schools?

A. I have been in all of the schools this fall, since
school opened.

Q. You have personally inspected all of them since the
first of September?

A. Yes sir.
Mr. Daily: We offer Defendants’ Exhibit No. 7.
The Court: A ll right.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 7 received in evidence.

DATA m FORT SMITH PUBLIC SCHOOL BUILDIHGS *

School
Senior High
Junior High
Belle Grove
Belle Point
DuVal
Peabody
Sogers
Parker
Trusty
Mill Creek
Albert Pike
So.Ft.Smith

Spradling
Cavanaugh
Massard
Barling
Lincoln
Howard
Washington

Enroll- Ho. of Teacher Age of Type Sanitation Cafe. Health Attendance Supervisory
--aaa l.. Teachers ma&u. Constr. j a g a m a e Heating Water Service SeedSI ...S a n t o . . -Sgg&S&__

1126 45 25.0 21 Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
1573 48 32.7 36 & 50 Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
396 12 33.0 63 Bride Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
576 17 33.8 64 & a Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
393 11 35.5 61 & 38 Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
676 18 37.5 36 Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
456 11 41.4 30 Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
337 12 32.2 27 Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
567 17 33.3 21 & new Brick Modern Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
163 5 35.0 32 Stucco Modern Open

stoves
City Yes Yes Yes Yes

191 4 47.7 32 Stucco Modern Open
stoves

City Yes Yes Yes Yes

208 5 41.6 32 Stuceo Modern Open
stoves

City Yes Yes Yes Yes

287 3 35.8 32 & new Stucco
Asbestos

Modern Open
stoves

City Yes Yes Yes Yes

74 3 24.6 30 Brick Open
Privies

Open
stoves

Well Yes Yes Yes Yes

63 2 31.5 25 Brick Open
Privies

Open
stoves

Well Milk
only

Yes Yes Yes

102 3 34.0 20 Stone Open
Privies

Open
stoves

Well Yes Yes Yes Yes

323 15 21.8 21 & 50 Brick Modern Central City Partial Yes Yes Yes
325 8 40.6 Hew Brick Modem Central City Yes Yes Yes Yes
28 1 28.0 40 Brick Open

Privies
Open
Stoves

City Milk
only

Yes Yes Yes

23 1 28.0 30 Frame Modem Open
stoves

City Milk
only

Yes Yes Yes

* Compiled by J. W. Ramsey, Superintendent of Schools, on basis of official records on file
in his office, and on his personal knowledge of school district property.

Dunbar

327

[fol. 372] Q. Mr. Ramsey, you have there a group of photo
graphs and to facilitate their introduction, I w ill ask you
if you caused those photographs to be made? Did you
employ a photographer to make these?

A. I did.
Q. When, sir? In the last few days?
A. Yes, I would say within the last ten days, within

that period.
Q. Did you accompany the photographer when the

photographs were made?
A. I did.
Q. Were you present when they were made?
A. I was.
Q. And are you familiar with what is shown in each

of these photgraphs?
A. I am.
Q. Have you inspected each of these photographs?
A. I have.
Q. I find on each of them a caption or explanatory

label. I will ask you sir, who prepared those?
A. To the best of my knowledge, Mrs. Shelley, in our

office.
Q. Who dictated the information to her?
A. I dictated the information.
Q. You are responsible for these descriptive labels?
A. Yes sir, that is right.

[fol. 373] Mr. Daily: We offer, with that explanation,
Your Honor, Defendants’ Exhibits Nos. 11 through 95.

The Court: All right.
Defendants’ Exhibits Nos. 11 through 95 Received in

Evidence.
Reporter’s Note: Defendants’ Exhibits 11 to 95, in

clusive, being large photographs, not material for copying
or being attached to transcript, the same are filed with
the District Clerk under separate cover.
[fol. 375] Q. Mr. Ramsey, Defendants’ Exhibits 11 through
26 are different views of the new Home Economics build
ing at the Lincoln High School, is that correct, sir?

328

A. It is.
Q. Now, that building is completed and this equipment

shown in these photographs I understand is installed and
in use in that school this school term, at the present time?

A. That is right.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, are you personally familiar with the

equipment and facilities of the Home Economics Depart
ment in the Senior and Junior white high schools in Fort
Smith?

A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you please sir, to state how they com

pare with the new Home Economics department at Lincoln
High School and as depicted by these photographs?

A. The equipment in this building here, the new
Lincoln school, of course, is new, consequently more modern
and more up to date, and in consideration of all the
factors involved, particularly with reference to the size
of the student body served, I would say that this equip
ment and the facilities generally provided, are superior to
either the Junior or Senior high schools.

Q. Are they complete in every respect for a Home
Economics department?
[fol. 376] A. Yes sir. I should qualify what I am saying
to this extent, that some of the items of new equipment
that have been purchased for this have not arrived. It
will really be better when it is finally finished or furnished
than it is now.

Q. But the items that are in these photographs are in
use and in operation?

A. Yes sir.
Q. You mean to say there are others to come that have

not yet arrived?
A. That is right.
Q. If you will, please, sir, refer to exhibits 27 through

34. They are various views of the new vocational building
at Lincoln colored high school and they show on their
face a building under construction and uncompleted and
the working materials, construction materials are evident
in the pictures. There has been considerable testimony
with respect to that building and what it shall house. I

329

just want to make clear whether or not it is today under
actual construction.

A. It is, almost complete.
Q. When was the construction begun?
A. The early part of the summer. I couldn’t give you

the exact day but perhaps sometime in July.
[fol. 377] Q. And has work progressed without interrup
tion since that time?

A. Well, yes, barring just seasonal or shortage of
material occasionally there would be something like that,
but there has been no regular stoppage—been no change
in the plans.

Q. You were out there this morning?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And they were working?
A. They were.
Q. And your contract with the contractor, does it have

a penalty provision and a time limitation on its comple
tion?

A. I am not sure that it does. Most of our contracts
with builders do have such penalty?

Q. When do you anticipate completion of that build
ing?

A. So far as I can tell, it is practically complete. I
would say within the next two or three weeks, surely
within thirty days.

Q. How about the equipment to put in it?
A. We are going to use some of the equipment that

was in the old building. I have asked our vocational
supervisor and the instructor in this particular building to
work out for us, and they have their list compiled as I
understand, of the items of equipment that they need.
Part of it has already been ordered. We have some on
order now. We have been getting some from different
[fol. 378] sources and I will say that there will be sufficient
equipment installed when the building is ready for occu
pancy to put it into reasonably and substantial full use, but
it will probably be a period of two or three months yet
before it is entirely equipped because of the delay that we
usually experience in getting the equipment.

330

Q. You mean delivery after order of the equipment?
A. That is right.
Q. If you will refer now, please sir, to exhibits 51 and

52. They are exterior or I should say, are captioned “Ex
terior South Fort Smith White Elementary School” and
“Exterior Mill Creek White Elementary School” ?

A. That is correct.
Q. Those buildings appear to be of identical construc

tion. Are they of like construction?
A. Yes sir, similar floor plan, similar exterior and sim

ilar interior arrangements all around.
Q. Is there another building in the system of that same

like construction?
A. Yes, Albert Pike School originally was exactly like

it. Of course, it has been reworked recently on account
of the fire and there is some variation but I would say
Albert Pike is substantially the same, and Spradling School
was until an annex was built to it. There were four of
[fol. 379] those stucco buildings.

Q. These two are characteristic of those four?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And they are essentially the same in construction?
A. Yes.
Q. And Exhibit 54. is a class room in the South Fort

Smith School on the upper floor, and I will ask you if it
is typical and representative of the classrooms in that
group of schools of the same construction?

A. Yes. This particular room has the library shelves
and books that the others do not have, so it is not typical
to that extent, but with that exception it is the same. It
is really a better room than the others, I think, because it
has those books and so on in it.

Q. Exhibit 55 depicts a basement classroom in the
South Fort Smith elementary white school. Do each of
these four like schools have basement classrooms?

A. No, only two; Mill Creek and South Fort Smith
have basement rooms; the other two Spradling and Albert
Pike do not.

331

Q. Is that basement room typical and representative of
the basement rooms in the two?

A. It is similar to the one in the other building that
has a basement room.

Q. Now, Exhibit 53 shows a rear exterior view of South
[fol. 380] Fort Smith white elementary school and [di
closes] a sort of lean-to addition on the rear; what does
that house?

A. That is the lavatories that were installed this sum
mer and connected to the septic tank that was installed.
That was part of the program of improving the sanitation
facilities.

Q. Was a like addition made to South Fort Smith and
Spradling?

A. South Fort Smith and Albert Pike. The one at
Spradling was slightly different but for the same purpose,
of course.

Q. It is typical of those four?
A. Typical of those three. The one at Spradling would

not be quite the same.
Q. Now, is there an inside entrance from the school

into those lavatories?
A. No.
Q. Students must come outside to go to the lavatories?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Photographs 56 and 57, defendants’ exhibits, are

interiors of the lavatories at the South Fort Smith school.
I will ask you, sir, if those are typical of the like additions
at the other four similar schools?

A. That is right.
Q. If you will look at Defendants’ Exhibit No. 50, it is

[fol. 381] the commercial department of the Lincoln High
School, showing the typing room, typewriters on the desks.
There has been considerable testimony in the record about
the chemical laboratory table in that room and it is dis
closed in that photograph. Will you explain, Mr. Ram
sey, why it is there and how long it will be there, if it will
be there?

A. This room in which the commercial department is
now housed originally was the science room. In our plans

332

to expand the curriculum and enlarge the facilities, we
were to move this science equipment into the rooms that
were formerly occupied by the Home Economics depart
ment. Although we ordered the equipment for the chem
istry laboratory months and months ago, we have been
delayed on account of manufacturing delays in getting
the shipment. So when school opened we have the com
mercial equipment—we had the plans all worked out to
make the conversion of this room to the commercial de
partment SO' we put in the typewriters and the tables and
the facilities for the commercial work. Actually the pres
ence of the demonstration science table in that room is
not particularly an obstruction or in the way. It just
don’t look very nice but there are only 20 typewriter tables
in use and until such time as the other quarters are fin
ished, we just felt that it would be better to leave that
[fol. 382] science table there than it would be to take it
out and store it somewhere.

Q. Is that a temporary condition awaiting the comple
tion of the plumbing repairs?

A. Yes sir.
Q. The plumbing repairs that you have mentioned are

those—do they create the condition of which there has
been testimony as to holes in the floor in some of the rooms
there in Lincoln High School?

A. Yes, I think you won’t find those holes in the floor
today or tonight perhaps because the carpenters were out
there this morning completing the relaying of the floor
after the plumbing had been laid.

Q. Defendants’ Exhibit 91. That is a side view of
Cavanaugh white elementary school and it shows a stair
way, an outside stairway to the rear. To what does that
give access?

A. The second story.
Q. Is there no inside stairway to the second story?
A. No.
Q. That is the only entrance way into the second story,

is outdoors?
A. That is right.

333

Mr. Daily: If Your Honor please, I omitted three ex
hibits.
[fol. 383] The Court: 8, 9 and 10?

Mr. Daily: 8, 9 and 10.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, I will ask you if you have had prepared

by the school truant officer under your direction and
supervision city maps of the City of Fort Smith showing
the location of the homes of the enrolled students in Lin
coln High School as purportedly depicted on defendants’
exhibit 8 and the location of the homes of the enrolled stu
dents in the Fort Smith Junior High School, purportedly
depicted by defendants’ exhibit No. 9 and the location of
the homes of the enrolled students in the Fort Smith Senior
High School as depicted upon defendants’ exhibit No. 10?

A. I did.
Mr. Daily: We offer Defendants’ Exhibits 8, 9 and 10 in

evidence.
The Court: All right.
Defendants’ Exhibits 8, 9 and 10 Introduced in Evidence.
Reporter’s Note: Defendants’ Exhibits 8, 9 and 10, being

large maps, not material for copying or being attached to
transcript, the same are filed with the District Clerk under
separate cover.
[fol. 387] Mr. Woods:

Q. Mr. Ramsey, I don’t believe you have been asked
about your educational qualifications. What schools did
you attend?

A. I have a [Batchelor] of Arts degree from Ouachita
College, a Master of Arts degree from Peabody Teacher’s
College, and if you will let me brag a little, I have an hon
orary degree from Yale, L. L. D.

Q. Is that how you became a doctor?
A. That is how I became a doctor.
Q. How many years’ experience in the teaching pro

fession have you had, Professor Ramsey?
A. This is the 37th year I have been a school adminis

trator. I taught in rural schools prior to that. I would say
I have had approximately 38 or 39 years.

Q. How many years have you been superintendent of
the Fort Smith schools?

334

A. I have already served 26 years. I am now in my
27th year as superintendent.

Q. You have served continuously 26 years and are now
serving in your 27th year?

A. That is right.
Q. Is that right?
A. That is right.
Q. What are your general duties as superintendent of

the Fort Smith school system, Mr. Ramsey?
[fol. 388] A. It is difficult to describe it in detail. I might
say that it is both administrative and supervisory. By ad
ministrative, I have reference to the matter of finance, per
sonnel, physical properties and supervisory. I would desig
nate that there are such items as curriculum, professional
development of the staff and that type of activity.

Q. That applies to the whole system?
A. That does.
Q. Colored and white schools?
A. That is right.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not sure whether this is in the rec

ord or not, about how many schools are there in the Fort
Smith system, how many separate buildings, units?

A. I believe there are 20. There are 20. If you will
let me add them as I go along.

The Court:
Q. That is 20 plants?
A. Yes sir. Four colored and sixteen white, and the

colored are the Dunbar, Washington, Howard grade school
and the Lincoln High School.

Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Ramsey, some point has been attempted here in

regard to the absence of a Junior or Senior division of the
[fol. 389] colored high school. W ill you tell the Court,
please sir, the reason for that division in the high school
and the reason for the absence of it in the colored schools?

A. Ordinarily in communities where the enrollment in
the secondary grades, that is grades seven to twelve, in
clusive, is less than 600 I will say, it is customary to have:
just for practical administrative purposes, housing pur

335

poses and so on, the six grades under one administration,
in one building and where the number in the upper six
years exceeds the number I indicated, say 600 or 700,
something like that, it is more feasible, more practical to
have the division into what we call the 6-3-3 plan. Now,
the form plan I should have said is the 6-6 plan, where we
have six grades in the elementary schools and six
years in the secondary schools. Now, by repetition,
when the enrollment is relatively small, we have
the six years of the secondary schools in one building,
under one administrator, one principal and faculty, but
for example, in Fort Smith where the number of students
in the secondary schools, white, would be between 2500 and
3000, obviously it would be difficult to have that many
children in one school, and for a variety of reasons, which
I shall not delineate, it is more practical to divide them
into the 3-3 group, thereby having what we call the 6-3-3
[fol. 390] plan.

Q. Is that a standardized custom or system or policy in
the educational world?

A. Yes.
Q. Now, is that a State of Arkansas policy or would

you say it is a nation-wide policy?
A. Well, of course, there are a good many states, or I

will say there are a good many communities in the different
states that still have what we call the 4-8 plan. No, the
8-4 plan. The 8-4 plan, where the first eight grades are
in the elementary division and the grades nine to twelve
or the next four grades are in the secondary or high school
division but I would say in the last 25 years there has been
a gradual increasing number of schools that have gone from
the traditional 8-4 plan to the 6-3-3 plan, or the 6-6 plan,
depending upon the size of the community to be served.

Q. A ll right, in those jurisdictions, communities and
states where they have the 6-6 plan, as we have it in Fort
Smith, is that a standard policy to have the division take
place only when the school population or enrollment ex
ceeds some designated figure like 600?

A. That is right.
Q. And that applies to colored schools as well as white

schools?

336

[fol. 391] A. Yes.
Q. No distinction made as to color?
A. I don’t know of any.
Q. When did the division take place in the white schools

here, was that after you came here?
A. Yes. On account of the housing conditions, the

actual available physical facilities for many years, well,
for some six years after I came to Fort Smith we
had seven grades in the elementary schools and five in the
high school for the white schools, and the colored schools
we had eight in the elementary grades and four in the
high school, but in 1929 when we built the Senior High
School, reworked the old high school into a Junior High
School and rebuilt, substantially, Lincoln High School, we
went to the 6-3-3 plan for white schools and the 6-6 plan
for the colored schools.

Q. What was the school enrollment situation, Mr. Ram
sey, in 1928 when you built the Senior High School, the
white high school enrollment and the colored school en
rollment. What was the situation—relative situation in
those two schools?

A. Well, the enrollment in the six grades for the col
ored schools then was not much different to what it is
now. I saw some figures not long ago. I don’t recall the
[fol. 392] exact figures, but seems to me that the total en
rollment of the colored schools now is somewhat less than
it was at that time.

Q. Well, I am not asking you for a comparison of the
size now with the size then, but what ̂was the relative
situation as to enrollment in the white high school of 1928
and the colored high school of that same year, with refer
ence to overcrowding and the necessity for buildings, and
so on?

Booker: We are not making any contention about the
erection of a new Junior High School for Negroes.

Mr. Woods: You raised that question.
Booker: We only raised the question as to the facilities

offered in the Junior High School for white people and
the facilities offered in the Senior High School against the
combined facilities in the Lincoln High School.

337

The Court: I understand. The purpose, I know, is to
give an overall picture. What you are having him say now
is, did the percentage of the enrollment—

Mr. Woods: The purpose of that question—
The Court: Is to show the necessity.

[fol. 393] Mr. Woods: Show the necessity for building
a new white high school at that time.

The Court: Of course you have got to put it into the
record. I like to have said something I ought not to have
said. I know a few things myself, but you have got to
get it into the record. Go ahead.

Q. The enrollment of the high school in 1929; are you
talking about the white high school?

A. Yes sir, embraced the five grades. That is as nearly
correct as I can recall, but I know one year the enrollment
exceeded 1850.

Q. A ll in one building?
A. One building.
Q. Five grades, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the situation at Lincoln High, you say,

at that time?
A. At that time the present Lincoln building wasn’t

erected. You see we added some rooms there but at that
time it had only four grades, and this is rather a hazy
memory, but I think it would be a fair statement to say
that the Lincoln School was not as badly crowded at that
time as the old high school was.

Q. But even the Lincoln High School was enlarged at
that same time and as a part of the same program, 1928
or—

A. Yes sir.
[fol. 394] Q. 1928 or 1929?

A. Well, it was actually begun in 1927. I think we
occupied the building sometime in the fall of 1928.

Q. Now, your high school, as I understand, your white
high school consists of six grades, seven to twelve in
clusive. The lower three of which are housed in the build
ing which has been referred to as the Junior High School

338

and the higher three grades in the building referred to as
the Senior High School. Is that correct?

A. That is right.
Q. Whereas the colored high school which also consists

of six grades, numbered seven to twelve inclusive, are all
housed in one building, referred to here as the Lincoln
High School; is that right?

A. Well, of course, temporarily the seventh grade is not
actually in the building, but it is in a building adjacent
to it, but considered a part of the six year high school.

Q. The only difference is the fact that they are housed
in one instance under one roof and in the other, under
two roofs, with two separate administrative units?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, Mr. Ramsey, is there any difference in the

curriculum or the courses of study in the three lower high
school grades as between the colored schools and the white
[fol. 395] schools; that is, the grades seven, eight and
nine?

A. No, so far as I know, there is not.
Q. In the three lower high school grades, that is, seven,

eight and nine, the courses of study are fixed and stand
ardized with no electives?

A. There might be a slight variation in some of the
math courses, but I would say substantially they are about
the same.

Q. And the courses in those three grades are required
of students, they have no choice, have they, except to take
what you give them?

A. No. In the ninth grade particularly there is some
choice. There is no choice, I believe, in the seventh grade.
May be a slight choice in the eighth and somewhat wider
selection in the ninth.

Q. It is when you get to the tenth, eleventh and twelfth
grades in both schools, white and colored, that electives,
such as Spanish, Latin, Trigonometry and these things that
have been talked about in this trial, are permitted to the
students?

A. Yes sir.

339

Q. Now, I believe it was stated here by Professor
Greene yesterday that he had no classes in Spanish, Do
you know the reason why they have no classes in Spanish
at the Lincoln High School this year?
[fol. 396] A. There has been no request for those courses.

Q. Is the same thing true of Latin at Lincoln High,
have you had any requests for Latin from any students of
the Lincoln High?

A. No sir.
Q. Is the same thing true of Trigonometery?
A. No requests.
Q. Now, Professor Greene was also asked if they had

an advanced course in Algebra at Lincoln High, do you
know about that, the reason for that?

A. Well, I know that we offer a course in advanced
Algebra where there is a demand. I understood in talking
with either Mr. Greene or Mr. Corbin, I forget which, one
of those men told me that when they made up the sched
ule of studies this year for Lincoln High School, they pro
vided for a course in advanced Algebra but there were
no takers, no one enrolled for it and then they organized
another class of first year Algebra for tenth graders who
had not taken first year Algebra in the ninth grade.

Q. Are you prepared now to furnish advanced Algebra
to any student in Lincoln High that wants it?

A. I wouldn’t say we are at the moment because the
place on the schedule and the teacher’s allotted time for
that subject for this semester has been assigned.
[fol. 397] Q. Suppose next year there is a demand, are
you prepared to furnish it?

A. Yes sir.
Q. Is that same thing true of Spanish; suppose next

year some student in Lincoln High wants Spanish, will you
be prepared to furnish that?

A. Well, in keeping with our general plan, we do not
offer a course for just one student. That would be ob
viously impractical.

Q. How many students would it take to enable you to
justify, in your opinion, putting in a class of Latin?

340

A. I would say anywhere—in that school, anywhere
from eight to twelve to fifteen.

Q. And how about Trigonometry?
A. I would say the same would apply there.
Q. I believe it was also asked and answered whether

there was a course in commercial law offered this year at
Lincoln High. Do you know whether any demands or
any requests were made for that?

A. I am not acquainted with that.
Q. Did any requests reach you?
A. No, no requests reached me.
Q. And journalism, did any requests reach you for a

class in journalism?
A. No sir.

[fol. 398] Q. In one of the exhibits that counsel presented
to you this morning, there was a table of school values.
Do you have the source before you from which those
values were taken?

A. I presume those came from an annual report. There
is in my annual report, a page devoted to property values
and I have here—I am not sure which year. Would it
make any difference?

Q. Are you prepared to tell the Court what portion or
what part of those valuation figures consisted of the
value of the land—the cost of the land?

A. Yes, I can do that.
Q. Well, beginning with the Senior High School, what

did the land cost on which the Senior High School is
located?

A. I am reading from 1947-48 at page 32. I think this
is the report here. There wouldn’t be much difference in
any of those last two or three years because it is about
the same. It stands here at $87,500.00 plus, just a small
plus. Call it $87,500.00.

Q. That is the land alone?
A. That is the land.
Q. The land on which the Junior High is located, what

is that valuation?

341

A. $29,000.00 plus.
Q. What is that total?

[fol. 399] A. That would be $116,000.00.
Q. $116,000.00?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Referring now to the land on which Lincoln High

is located, what valuation is that given?
A. Listed here at $6,500.00.
Q. Now those figures, those three figures were in

cluded in the computation that counsel showed you this
morning—had you identify?

A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, will you tell the Court why the dif

ference between $6,000.00 land valuation for Lincoln High
and the $116,000.00 land valuation for the two white high
school units?

A. What I would say there would naturally be an
opinion. I am not a real estate man but I assume that the
location of property in the community—

Tate: We object to that. If he is not in position to know
land values. He admits he is not a real estate man.

The Court: I know. Objection sustained. You know
you put maps in here and have shown the location of the
schools, each one of them. I can’t keep from knowing
something about these schools, because I live here myself. I
am not going to testify. I am not going to let my judgment
[fol. 400] be influenced in anything about what I know,
but we all know the location, know the location of the
Junior High and the location of Senior High and know the
location of the Lincoln High, and naturally what he would
say would be an opinion. You might go out and get other
opinions that wouldn’t agree. I don’t think it is material.

Mr. Woods: Of course we know Your Honor knows as
much about the local situation as we do and probably
more, but. for the record we would like to show that, and
since Mr. Ramsey personally purchased a large part, if
not all of the site upon which the Senior High is located,
we think his opinion on that would have some weight.

342

The Court: The objection would go to the weight of it
anyway. Go ahead.

A. I would say that the location undoubtedly de
termines the value of property; the residence section as
contrasted with business section and so on. Specifically,
I would say the location determines the value.

Q. It is true, isn’t it, that the Senior High School is
located in a high value section of the city?

A. That is right.
Q. And is that true also of the Junior High?
A. Well, relatively so. I would say the property values

[fol. 401] in the vicinity of Junior High School are not
quite as high as they are in the vicinity of Senior High.

Q. As compared with the vicinity of Lincoln High, they
are substantially higher?

A. Yes, they are higher.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, something has been said here about

the North Central Association of Schools and Colleges. Will
you tell the Court what that is and what purpose it serves?

A. The North Central Association of Colleges and sec
ondary schools is a voluntary organization of school people,
both high school and college, for the purpose of—organized
for the purpose of improving the quality of instruction in
the institutions in which those persons work and which all
accredited members are a part. As I recall it, it embraces
20 states through the north central section. Actually, A r
kansas is one of the most southerly states that is a member
of the North Central Association. It extends from Mich
igan, Minnesota, as far west as Colorado, Oklahoma and
Ohio. 20 states through the middle part of the United
States. As I previously stated, the purpose of the organi
zation is to improve the—well, fundamentally, it is to im
prove the quality of instruction in the schools that are em
braced in the organization. That is done by improving the
[fol. 402] physical facilities, the curriculum, the laboratory
equipment and so on.

Q. State what it signifies for a high school to be ac
credited with this association or by this association.

A. Well, members of the North Central Association,
that is the secondary schools that are members of the
North Central Association—

343

Q. By secondary, you mean high schools?
A. High schools. Permit the graduates of those in

stitutions to enter practically any college or university in
the entire nation that does not require, say, a college en
trance examination. But by and large, most of the col
leges in the nation and especially throughout the north
central territory will admit without examination, a grad
uate of a high school from a north central school.

Q. That is accredited in that association?
A. That is right.
Q. What is required of a high school in order to be

received as an accredited member of the association?
A. That is a difficult question to answer. There are

several bases on which a school is selected for membership
or affiliation. In general terms I would say that it would
depend on the physical facilities; the richness or lack of it
of the curriculum—the breadth; the representation of the
[fol. 403] curriculum; the preparation and training of the
teachers. So we would say buildings, curriculum, fac
ulties. Those are the three primary bases on which a
school is selected.

Q. Adequacy of buildings?
A. That is right.
Q. Curriculum and faculty?
A. Yes. For example, the superintendent of the school,

the principal of the high school in a north central school
must have Master’s degrees and all the teachers and
faculty must have at least [Batchelor’s] degrees or equiva
lent. Then they must have a certain number of books in
the library and so many additions year after year. The
same thing is true of laboratory equipment. And the gen
eral breadth of the curriculum related to- the needs. that
would normally develop in the community represented by
that school.

Q. How is it determined when a school is eligible for
admission into that association? How do they find out
whether it is qualified or not?

A. Well, I w ill give you a little mechanics. In each
state there is what is called a North Central committee.
It is composed of the director of instruction of the State

344

Department of Education, a representative from the Col
lege of Education of the University of that state, and in
[fol. 404] this state three other persons. I had the honor
some years ago of serving on the committee. A superin
tendent from a small size system and a superintendent
from a large system and the principal of a medium-sized
high school. Now, those five persons.

Q. Who are the first two?
A. The first two are State Department of Education

representative and the University of Arkansas representa
tive, then those other three. Those five persons constitute
the North Central committee and it is in their hands, the
matter of selecting the members of member schools. An
application is filed with this committee setting forth the
various things that I have mentioned heretofore, adequacy
of buildings, faculty, curriculum and what not.

Q. Who is the present member in Arkansas from the
State Department of Education?

A. Dr. M. R. Owens.
Q. Is he here today?
A. Yes.
Q. How long has he held that position?
A. Oh, twenty odd years I know.
Q. Has Lincoln High School been admitted as a mem

ber of the North Central Association?
A. It has.

[fol.405] Q. Do you remember what year?
A. Yes, I do. It was 1938.
Q. And has it been a member ever since?
A. It has.
Q. Been inspected from time to time?
A. Yes. The principal is required annually to submit

a report. Every school must have an annual report and
personal inspection to keep accredited.

Q. Do you say that since 1938 and down to the present
time, that a graduate of the Lincoln High School is ac
corded the privilege of entrance to, generally speaking, to
the colleges of the United States without examination?

A. Yes.

345

Q. Is that true of the white high school here also?
A. It is.
Q. Equally true of both colored and white high schools?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now, yesterday the question was asked Professor

Greene if in 1948 he issued any academic diplomas, and his
answer was no. Do you know just what was meant by
that, Mr. Ramsey?

A. I gathered from the statement made there that an
effort was made to show whether or not they had the
same kind of differentiation of diplomas at Lincoln that
they had in the Senior High School. A t the Senior High
[fol. 406] School it was pointed out what they called an
academic diploma and a practical arts diploma, where at
Lincoln they had only a diploma.

Q. Just one high school diploma?
A. Yes sir, which was all inclusive. I believe he men

tioned, Mr. Green mentioned that this year with the en
larged and expanded curriculum that he was going to make
that differentiation. His statement to the effect that he
did not issue an academic diploma last year certainly did
not mean that the graduates were not eligible to enter col
lege.

Q. It just simply meant that he was issuing one and
only one kind of diploma?

A. Yes, that is it.
Q. And this year he is issuing two kinds of diplomas

and he designates one of them academic and the other
practical arts?

A. That is what I understood him to say. I leave that
to his discretion.

Q. Something was said in evidence about mass meet
ings. Give the Court a history so far as you know of the
purpose, functions, and so forth of the annual mass meet
ings, school mass meetings held in Fort Smith.

A. It has been customary in this state—this school dis-
[fol. 407] trict, I should say many years, to conduct what
is called an annual school mass meeting. It was in exist
ence when I came here in 1923 and has been in existence
ever since and I understand it was back in early days. The

346

purpose of it had two or three things in mind, first, to make
a personal report to the citizens of the community relative
to the welfare of the school.

Q. To the local citizenship, black and white?
A. Yes. It is open to the public. The newspapers and

other media of communication, word of mouth, telephone
and what not, gives broadcast information that mass meet
ings are to be held. Everybody, irrespective of color, is
invited, to give reports to the people about the schools,
to recommend the millage that is needed to support the
schools, and in the last place to recommend for member
ship on the board persons to succeed the individuals whose
terms on the board expire that year. It is purely informal,
unofficial. Just an old Fort Smith custom. I know of no
other place in the state where such a custom is followed.

Q. Is it also a custom at that mass meeting to read and
file a formal report?

A. It is.
Q. Signed by the Board of Directors?
A. Yes sir.

[fol. 408] Q. I w ill ask you if you preserved those reports
as they were read and filed?

A. Yes. The secretary of the mass meeting which is
organized by those persons there, usually files with the
school board, the minutes of the meeting, including the
resolutions adopted and a copy of the minutes or of the re
port that is read.

Q. Mr. Ramsey, I hand you a paper here which is
marked Defendants’ Exhibit 97 and ask you to state if that
is a true copy of the report read by the Board of Directors
in the annual mass meeting held February 18, 1946?

A. Yes sir.
Mr. Woods: If the Court please, I want to introduce

into the record, not the entire report unless counsel desires
that the entire report be introduced, but I would like to
read into the record what was said on that date, 1946 about
a proposed building program.

The Court: Any objections?
Tate: No sir.
Mr. Woods: Shall I read it into the record?

The Court: Unless counsel wants to introduce the en
tire proceeding.
[fol. 409] Tate: We haven’t had time to study it to that
effect.

The Court: You go ahead and introduce what you
want and if they want to introduce it, they can.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 97 received in evidence.

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No. 97.

II. Future Planning

A. The last building program in Fort Smith was in
1928-29 when the Senior High School and new Trusty
School were constructed. The cost of these buildings was
underwritten by a bond issue of $575,000. In 1936 a ren
ovation program was carried out, and this included the
modernization of the sanitary facilities and heating plants
in a number of elementary schools, and the construction
of the Junior College-Stadium building. That program
cost a total of $150,000 of which $67,000 was a grant from
the Federal Works Administration and $83,000 was re
ceived from a bond issue. Manifestly there is now, and
will continue to be, a need for enlargement as well as the
continuous improvement of the physical plant. The city is
growing and the school district must be prepared at all
times to provide adequate educational opportunities for
its increasing population. In contemplation of these needs
over a period of the next five to ten years, the board has
[fol. 410] tentatively decided that during that time a
building program costing approximately $750,000 should be
undertaken. The tentative plan calls for the following
projects: (1) The complete overhauling of the lighting
system of practically every school building in the district.
The installation of modern sanitary facilities in the five
outlying schools. (2) New modern buildings to replace
the Belle Grove building, the Lincoln High School, and
the Howard School. The tentative plan calls for a single
building to house the Lincoln and Howard schools on a
new site outside the flooded district. (3) A new building
to replace the Albert Pike School designed to serve ade

348

quately the rapidly increasing school population in that
section. (4) A new elementary school building in the
southeastern part of the city to serve the rapidly growing
population there. (5) a new building to serve the require
ments of a trade school at the Senior High School-Junior
College plant. (6) In so far as possible, the Moderniza
tion of Peabody, Belle Point, and Duval schools with ade
quate provisions for auditorium and other needed facil
ities including provision for the safety and comfort of
teachers and pupils.

Your board does not believe that this building and im
provement program can be launched now for two reasons.
In the first place, the scarcity of building materials and
[fol. 411] equipment would render the cost prohibitive,
and, in the second place, our present debt service require
ment will not permit it.

$ ̂ $

Q. Mr. Ramsey, I hand you another document which
is designated Defendants’ Exhibit 98 and ask you to iden
tify that as the report made by the school board to the
mass meeting, annual mass meeting on February 18, 1947.

A. It is.
Mr. Woods: I would like to read into the record what

was said about the building plan for that year, under the
heading, “ Future Planning” .

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 98 received in evidence.

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No. 98

II. Future Planning

In the Board’s Mass Meeting report one year ago, the
following statement was made: “Manifestly there is now,
and will continue to be, a need for enlargement as well
as the continuous improvement of the physical plant. The
city is growing and the school district must be prepared
at all times to provide adequate educational opportunities
for its increasing population. In contemplation of these
needs over a period of the next five to ten years, the
[fol. 412] Board has tentatively decided that during that

349

time a building program costing approximately three
quarters of a million dollars should be undertaken.”

On December 18 of last year the Board published a
report in which was projected a five-year program which
provides that the budget of the school system should be
increased from $680,000, the amount this year, to $925,000
by the year 1951-52. Part of that recommendation reads
as follows:

“Based on the belief that the perpetuation of American
democracy requires a program of education fitted to the
abilities, interests, and needs of every boy and girl; that
social, civic, economic, spiritual and vocational compe
tency are as important as academic literacy; that the pro
gram of our schools should emphasize the worth and dig
nity of all essential work; that the QUALITY of our EDU
CATIONAL PROGRAM will be DETERMINED by the
QUALITY of the PERSONS WHO TEACH, the following
long-time program of the Fort Smith schools is submitted
for consideration.

“Briefly, the program has two main aspects: (1) In
crease in the number and the quality of our teachers; (2)
Enlargement and renovation of old buildings and con
struction of several new buildings. Both of these pro
grams will require a substantial increase in revenue.”

* ❖ ❖

[fol. 413] Q. Now, Mr. Ramsey, I hand you a document
which is marked Defendants’ Exhibit 99 and ask you if you
identify that as the report made by the school board to
the mass meeting held on February 17, 1948?

A. Yes, that is right.
Mr. Woods: I would like to read a short paragraph on

the building program.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 99 Received in Evidence.

DEFENDANTS’ EXHIBIT No. 99

Building Program—It is generally known that the board
has a definite building program in mind. On January 24

350

by a vote of more than 60 to 1 (735 to 12), the voters gave
the board authority to borrow $900,000 at an interest rate
not to exceed 3 per cent per annum for the purpose of
buying sites, building new buildings, and making badly
needed improvements and enlargements to existing build
ings. Bids for these bonds are to be taken Tuesday, March
2. The money should be available to the district within a
reasonably short time after the bonds are finally sold.
Architects have been working for months on plans and
specifications for the contemplated new buildings. It is
hoped that the improvement and construction program
may be started this coming summer. Necessarily the time
of beginning the new work will be predicated on the sale
[fob 414] of the bonds.

$ $ ^

Q. Now, Mr. Ramsey, are you familiar with the work
as it has progressed in accordance with the plans men
tioned in these reports?

A. Yes.
Q. And discussed by the school board?
A. Yes.
Q. How far along has the work gone toward the com

pletion of the new Howard grade school?
A. Well, I would say it is 98% complete, lacking only,

I believe, the installation of the light fixtures and the in
stallation of the furniture and perhaps some touching up
on the radiators, heating plant.

Q. Has the furniture been obtained and ready for
installation?

A. More than half of it has already been delivered to
the building. We had one shipment this week and we
were told some more would come yesterday but it didn’t
come. I would say certainly by the time the carpenters
and electricians get out of the building we will have the
equipment.

Q. Can you anticipate about when that will be?
A. I have been disappointed so many times about

predictions. I would say certainly by December 15th.
[fol. 415] Q. A little over a month from now?

351

A. Yes.
Q. Now, Mr. Ramsey, what kind of equipment has

been purchased and ordered for that school with respect
to adequacy, up-to-dateness?

A. Well, this being an elementary school—you mean
the equipment, as far as the teaching equipment—what
do you mean?

Q. Everything that goes into the equipment of the
Howard school, whether it is obtained now or on order?
Is it all to be new?

A. Yes. There will be no second-hand material at all.
None of the equipment in the old Howard building is to
be sent to the new Howard. We will have new desks,
tables and the books, probably most of them will be used,
but none of the furniture, I would say, in the present
Howard School will be sent to the new building.

Q. When that building is completed and equipped, with
the furniture and equipment that you have provided for
it, tell the Court what that building in its equipped state,
will be as to adequacy to provide or to answer the pur
pose for which it is provided.

A. In our judgment it will be a very modern building,
and more so than other building in the city with the ex
ception of the four rooms that we built at the same time
[fol. 416] out at Trusty. We added four extra rooms out
there and they are of the same quality, so it would be
safe to say that the new Howard School will be superior
to any elementary school in town with that single excep
tion that I mentioned.

Q. Now, we have heard quite a little in the testimony
today and yesterday about the condition of the toilet rooms
at the Lincoln High. Will you tell the Court whether or
not new toilet arrangements are being provided there?

A. Yes, they are under construction now.
Q. How many?
A. Well, of course, there is one for the boys and one for

the girls.
Q. Now far separated are they?

352

A. The width of the building—the width of the au
ditorium. They are separated that far apart. The num
ber of showers, I believe, is either four or five.

Q. Are you talking about the shower rooms or your
toilet rooms?

A. I am talking about—you are talking about this new
installation at the old building, aren’t you?

Q. Yes, your toilet rooms.
A. They are prepared to be adequate for the number

of students that would be served.
Q. Now, your shower facilities, what is being furnished

[fol. 417] in the way of shower facilities?
A. New showers—enlarged showers. There were some

showers installed in Lincoln High School years ago when
it was remodeled. They probably have been inadequate.
We have recognized that all along but we have never
been able to do much about it. In anticipation of some of
this new money which we hope to get on the new bond
issue, anticipate it to the extent that we are providing
what is regarded—

Q. How many shower rooms are you preparing?
A. One for the boys and one for the girls.
Q. How widely separated are those?
A. I would say thirty or forty feet.
Q. Different sections of the building?
A. Yes, they are in no way connected one with the

other.
Q. Now, some complaint is made about the absence of

a lounge room at Lincoln High. What do you mean by a
lounge room? What is a lounge room?

A. It is just a lavatory facilities, largely a rest room for
the women teachers.

Q. And is such a room being provided?
A. That is right.
Q. Adequate?
A. In our judgment it is.
Q. Adequate for the number of teachers?

[fol. 418] A. In our judgment it is.

353

Q. Mr. Ramsey, counsel for plaintiffs this morning in
troduced in evidence as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 72, the
Senior High School class schedule for the first semester
of 1948-49. Now, that was last year, wasn’t it?

A. Yes, it was.
Q. Is the class schedule for the first semester of 1949-50

which is the present semester that we are in, is that sub
stantially similar to this?

A. Yes, very little variation?
Q. Any material variation?
A. No, no material variation.
Q. So the Exhibit 72 introduced by the plaintiffs sub

stantially reflects your class schedule at the Senior High
as it now is this year?

A. Yes, I would say it would.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, I hand you a document which is marked

Defendants’ Exhibit 96 and ask you to identify that and
state what it is.

A. That is the class schedule for the Lincoln High
School. But it does not embrace the 7th grade which is
considered a part of this school, but for the moment is in
another building.

Q. That is the class schedule of what school?
A. Of the Lincoln High School.

[fol. 419] Q. Now, this present semester?
A. That is right.
Q. Does that correctly disclose the entire class schedule

for the classes that you mentioned?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. A ll of the classes?
A. Except the 7th grade.
Mr. Woods: We offer Defendants’ Exhibit No. 96 in

evidence.

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 96 Received in Evidence.

Lincoln High School
C, M. Greene, Principa l

Class Schedule 1949-50

Teacher 1 2 3 -. - __A ........... 5 .... -....-...........____6________________

Cox
W T B T
Home Ec

12 (12)
Home Ec

11 (15)
Home Ec

9 (11 )
.......Home Ec Conf _______

9 (19)
____Home.Ec.............

A. M ille r Draft
w

Shop
8 (12)
Shoo

11-12
T & I

11-12 (10)
T & T

11-12
T-&-X

l/ebster Study Home Ec
8 (15)
Home Ec

8 (29)
Phv Ed

9 (30)
___Phy Ed

10 (31)
™-_-Ehy_JEd---- --------

E. Harris

_ T _ g

A Mech
11-12
A Mech

11-12
A Mech

9 (16)
Shop Conf

9 (20)
Shop,----_____——

Bishop
1 W

G Math
“ l o W

Typing
11 (8)
Sfhand

11
Study

12
O ffice_______

(28)
_____Auci__ —-------- -

Fletcher
wr

English
“ T o f T S T

French Study O ffic e
8 (26)
English.-_____

11 (21)
__._EngLi.slx.--------- -

H. Harris Chem
9 (35)
Science

(26)
Biology

9 (30)
Science .........

10 (44)
Biology______ At hi. filin g— _

H illia rd Guidance Guidance Guidance
8 (23)
Phv Ed

9 (34)
___Phy .Ed_________

10 (33)
_Phy_Ed .

H. M ille r Library Study
12 (24)
English Library......

11 (25)
English-----------__ __ L. i hraj.-y

Slaughter
^TTTWr

History Study
10 (32)
H istory

11 (2 l )
H istorv

10-11-12
S t u d y _____

11-12 (19)
tf*Annmi f-»g---------- --

Sullivan
“TFTISj

Ehglish
10 (31 )“
H istory

9 (32)
English

12 (30)
Speech .......

8 (29)
Study

9 (35)
English---- ------------

Talton
9 (34}
Algebra

—inMr
Arithmetic

i f e ]
Algebra

10 ( 26)
Geometry .Study----------------

8 (25)
Arith

V/rice
8 (27)
H istory___

10-11-12 (24)
— Glee. Club-------- -- Study--------------

10-11-12
S tu d y ..

(18)
— Band___

8 ( 26)
H is to ry ----------------

357

[fol. 421] Q. Mr. Ramsey, there was introduced this
morning Defendants’ Exhibit No. 7 which is designated
“Data on Fort Smith Public School Buildings” . The third
column in that table is headed, “Teacher Load” . Just
what do you mean by teacher load?

The Court: That was explained awhile ago. He ex
plained thoroughly while Mr. Daily was examining him.

Mr. Woods: You may have the witness.

Cross Examination.
Tate:
Q. Dr. Ramsey, in your testimony on your direct ex

amination you made the statement that some of the stu
dents at the Lincoln High School were what you de
scribed as outside students and that they pay a certain
tuition for coming to school?

A. Yes.
Q. Do you have outside students in the white Junior or

Senior High Schools?
A. Not on the same basis. I think there are a few come

in, not many, maybe two or three, something like that.
Q. Now, doctor when they pay tuition what do you do

with it?
A. Well, it is deposited in the regular school funds as

all funds are.
Q. And it is treated no differently than any tuition that

[fol. 422] you would get, say from the Junior College, is
that correct?

A. Well, in the sense that it all goes into a common
treasury and it is commingled with all of our funds, it is
the same; yes.

Q. With respect to your pictures introduced, you do not
deny that the Howard School at this time is not a school
in any practical sense in that it is not the combination of
buildings and facilities, library, student and teacher, in
that sense it is not a real school today, is it?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, as to the Lincoln School, .where certain ren

ovations are being made, there are three rooms on the

358

second floor above the ground, two of those rooms as of
today are not fit for occupancy, are they? You were there
yesterday.

A. I was there this morning.
Q. Yes sir,
A. And they were not occupied at that time.
Q. That is correct, sir. There is a big hole in the floor

of the one to the rear and the floor is being put down in
the front room?

A. As I stated, the carpenter was there this morning
relaying the floor, so it is reasonable to assume they will
be ready for occupancy tomorrow or shortly.
[fol. 423] Q. Those rooms are not now occupied?

A. No sir.
Q. The typing room across the hall is still a sort of

hybrid chemical laboratory and typing room, is that cor
rect?

A. It is used only as a typing room, however, there is
some chemical-—there is a teacher’s demonstration desk for
chemistry in that room still attached, for the reason I ex
plained earlier.

Q. Downstairs in the principal’s office, which is a com
bination office and classroom, there is some scaffolding in
that room?

A. Yes.
Q. So that room is not an efficient room as of today?
A. There is that obstacle there in the way.
Q. And the library which is the next room to it on the

right hand side of the hall going toward the rear, there
is a sort of double criss-cross scaffold in there, so you have
to crawl in that to get into the library?

A. I didn’t go into the library this morning. I couldn’t
state positively, but I would assume inasmuch as there
was construction work there, that there was some ma
terial.

Q. So that room is not as of today an efficient room, is
it, sir?
|fol. 424] A. That is right.

359

Q. That has been largely the state of affairs all this
school year; you have been in the process of making ren
ovations all this school year, that is, since September when
your schools opened?

A. I think that is not quite correct. I think this in
stallation—the preparation for the installation of this
chemistry equipment has only been under way about two
weeks; I know it didn’t start with the opening of school,
and I might say in that connection, that we are having
that done now, so immediately on delivery of the science
or chemistry equipment, it can be installed and put into
immediate use without further delay. We are hoping to
conserve time. We might apparently be confusing time
but we hope to make it up by having things ready so it
could be installed immediately on delivery.

Q. And that beautiful building, and which you have
for domestic science, by transferring—making the transi
tion from a shop to a domestic shop building, that closed
your shop, didn’t it?

A. Yes.
Q. And you don’t have any shop now, do you?
A. Using part of it. I mean an unoccupied at the old

Howard School for one class. It is an improvised arrange-
[fol. 425] ment, I would say that.

Q. W ill you please answer my other question? At the
moment you don’t have any efficient shop, do you?

A. No, that is right.
Q. Now, the room that is being used for a shop in the

Lincoln High building, do you know where that room is,
sir? Would you mind if I refresh your memory on it? It
is the room in which coal is taken in or fuel or such ma
terial as go into the basement in the back of the building;
you go down a pair of stairs and go into a large space that
approaches the boiler room, and on one side is a group of
broken chairs and so on and on the other side is just an
accumulation of waste over 15 or 20 years or so. Is that
correct, sir?

A. I can’t say positively that I knew that. I knew
there were improvised arrangements, but just where they
were, I frankly didn’t know where they were.

360

Q. In that room sir, there are about two dozen folding
chairs, one hand saw, one hand plane, one square and a
large box which contains about 50 wrenches that are
about that long with holes in both ends to screw up, and so
forth, screws that are not square but are round, if the
Court please. Is that a correct description of your shop
as of today, sir?

A. I can’t answer that. I haven’t seen what you have
just described.
[fob 426] Q. But you don’t deny that it is?

A. No, I couldn’t say it is or isn’t.
Q. Now, with respect to your shop building, you are

constructing a shop building. As of today that shop is
not a real piece of school property, is it, in the sense
that we can talk again of land and buildings and students
and teachers and teacher material, in that sense it is not
a school building, is it sir?

A. Well, I will answer it this way. The building is not
occupied and in use as a teaching station at the present
time.

Q. Dr. Ramsey, as an educator with some 30 years of
experience, what will be the effect in terms of frustration
and loss of time and effort on all of the students who now
attend Lincoln School and who—some of whom must
graduate at next June? Have they suffered any real loss
and deprivation by this program?

A. That would be difficult to answer positively. There
will be some lost motion.

Q. I will put it this way, sir. Have they enjoyed the
same educational opportunities, privileges and advantages
as the white students in your Junior High School for
white children and your Senior High for whites?

A. During the same period of time?
[fol. 427] Q. Yes.

A. No. May I add this. Recently we had an elemen
tary school fire. It was necessary to transfer 200 children
to another school and put them on a half day session for
two or three or four weeks while that fire damage was
being repaired, and there was likewise some lost motion in
their development, but we think it is temporary and in a

361

reasonably short time it will be made up. The children are
young and have plenty of time ahead of them. I think the
same educational principle, growth and development would
apply here. That is purely a hypothetical statement I am
making and conjectural, but I do not think the loss you
refer to is irreparable and cannot recovered and recalled.

Q. And you are saying positively that these young stu
dents have suffered no irreparable loss?

A. Suffered some. Now the measure of it, of course,
would be a matter of opinion—relative.

Q. During the 27 years you have been in charge of the
schools here, how many new buildings have you con
structed?

A. Prior to the present building program, we have—
Q. Let’s say how many new buildings have you com

pleted and taken occupancy of?
A. Well, the new Senior High School, the new Trusty

School, and what we called then the new Lincoln School,
[fol. 428] Q. Now, I mean that is building from the ground
up—from the foundation up, sir.

A. Of course that building was torn down almost to the
foundation. It wasn’t entirely a new building.

Q. I mean only buildings that you have contracted for
•—that you have had an [architest] to draw and you have
contracted for and ordered construction and they have been
constructed and turned over to you by the contractors.

A. Well, I will say this: that at Lincoln we had an
architect. The gentleman who testified here this morning
and Mr. Mott were the architects for that building and it
was built according to contract and we paid the contractor
for it by an architect’s design. Going back to your ques
tion; Senior High School, Trusty School, Lincoln School at
that time. Now, that was in 1928-29. And as I recall the
only other building was the stadium building that was con
structed at the Senior High School in 1936. Those are the
only buildings that have been erected since I have been in
charge of the schools.

Q. Now, of that number of buildings that were con
structed, how many of those were for the use and enjoy
ment of Negro children?

362

A. One.
Q. And that was more or less of a renovation, wasn’t it?

[fol. 429] A. Well, it was a rebuilt building at least. It
was enlarged and improved.

Q. Well, if you go about it that way, then you could
also say that the Junior High School was rebuilt, couldn’t
you, because you did substantially the same thing to that,
didn’t you?

A. Of course, that was prior to my time. I don’t know
about the Junior High School. It was built in three sec
tions, in three different decades, so far as I know. Several
decades ago.

Q. Now, some discussion has been had about the Mill
Creek School. How long has that been a part of the Fort
Smith independent district?

A. I would imagine about 35 years.
Q. How long has the Albert Pike been a part?
A. Ever since it was constructed. I imagine it would

be about 30 years, at least.
Q. And the South Fort Smith School, how long?
A. I would say 30 to 35 years.
Q. Well, let me ask you this. Have you taken any new

area into the school district within the last five years?
A. Yes.
Q. What schools were they, sir?
A. We call them the same names that existed at the

time we took them in, the Cavanaugh School, the Massard
[fol. 430] School and the Barling School.

Q. Now, they were taken in within the last five years?
A. Yes.
Q. And were some of the pictures that were demon

strated—given to you today for identification, were some
of those pictures taken at the Cavanaugh, Massard or Bar
ling schools?

A. Yes.
Q. So they really aren’t a part of your system for com

parison in the sense that your other schools are, are they?
I mean you aren’t responsible by and large for the condi

363

tion of those schools, are you, because they haven’t been
under your administration?

A. We have been since they have been under our ad
ministration. We have made some improvement on them,
incidentally.

Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, you testified on the land value at
the Senior High School for whites and Junior High School
and the land value of the colored high school, and the in
ference was made that the land values were as they are
because of the locations. Now, in 1932-33—this is your re
port for those years. That is your report for those years,
sir?

A. Yes.
Q. Will you read the land values for the Senior High

School, sir?
[fol. 431] A. $57,653.00.

Q. Will you read the land values for the Junior High?
A. $20,611.00.
Q. And for the Lincoln School?
A. $6,000.00.
Q. That is the school for Negroes?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you got the 1947-48 report?
A. Yes.
Q. Let’s look at that, please sir. That is your report for

1947-48, is it, sir?
A. Yes. The Senior High School is $87,500.00.
Q. The Junior High School?
A. $29,000.00 plus.
Q. And the Negro high school?
A. $6,000.00 plus.
Q. The land value at the white high school increased

approximately $30,000.00, is that correct, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And the land value at the Negro high school in

creased $45.00, is that correct, sir?
A. According to those figures.

364

Q. Now, that does not then seem to reflect that the
reason for the differences in value were as to location, does
it?

A. You want an explanation of that?
[fol. 432] Q. Yes, sir I would like to have it.

A. The first figure of $57,000.00, that was before much
of the present campus was acquired. The values that are
listed in this report represent the actual number of dollars
that was spent to purchase the land that is now a part of
that school campus.

Q. That is just what I was coming to, sir. Those dif
ferences in value represent quantity more or less, don’t
they, together with the time of acquisition? Now, in your
report, you do not depreciate—of course, your land nat
urally wouldn’t depreciate, but you don’t depreciate your
buildings either, do you?

A. No.
Q. So that everything you have is set up at the acquisi

tion value?
A. Yes.
Q. And the fact that the Lincoln property was acquired

some 70 or 80 years ago, would make a considerable dif
ference, wouldn’t it?

A. Probably would.
Q. And then it isn’t really the location, is it, that

causes the difference in value?
A. Well, the location and the size together, would

certainly make a difference.
Q. Now, you gave some testimony that the showers in

the Lincoln High School, possibly that they were inade-
[fol. 433] quate when they were installed, but that you
were unable to do anything about it because of lack of
funds. Is that a correct statement roughly of what you
said?

A. Well, I made some general comment to that effect.
Q. Well, now going back to your report for September

2, 1949, the Defendants’ Exhibit No. 100, would you begin
to read this paragraph?

365

Mr. Woods: That was not introduced. That Exhibit
100 is not introduced. Would you like to introduce it?

Tate: I would like to or at least a portion thereof.
Q. Will you please read that paragraph along there,

sir?
A. Start here?
Q. Yes.
A. You want me to read it out?
Q. I want really what is on the other side. Start right

there.
A. “ It is important to remember that all the money

from the 1948 bond issue, and the Ballman gift has been
allocated for projects that are completed, or under way,
or will be under way very soon. None of the 1948 bond
money is available for vitally needed improvements of the
old buildings; money from the 1948 bond issue was avail-
[fol. 434] able in March of 1948, and part of that money
has been and is invested in Government securities.”

Q. So the school district did have securities at that
time which could have certainly provided showers for the
Lincoln School.

A. Well, the allocation of the money had been set up,
and the money invested in securities was regarded as a
trust fund. It had been set aside for another purpose.

Q. You would borrow money on bonds and had re
invested it so as to reduce your interest rate?

A. That is right.
Q. Dr. Ramsey, referring to Defendants’ Exhibit No. 7,

which is data on the Fort Smith public school buildings;
on Lincoln High School as to cafeteria service, you say
“Partial” . What do you mean by partial?

A. A few students, ever since we have had a cafeteria
at Howard, have been permitted to go to Lincoln, I mean
to Howard for cafeteria service, those who wanted to avail
themselves of that service.

Q. In the old Howard building now, there is a cafeteria?
A. That is right.
Q. Some of the Lincoln students go over there to use

that?

366

A. Yes.
Q. So what that is then, is a privilege to some children

to go over to the Howard building and not actually a
[fol. 435] cafeteria in connection with the Lincoln School?

A. That is right.
Q. Referring now to Defendants’ Exhibit No. 4, which

is your per capita cost of instruction for the Fort Smith
public schools. Do you have a copy of that before you,
sir?

A. No, I don’t. (Defendants’ Exhibit No. 4 is passed
to Mr. Ramsey).

Q. In the first column you have, “A ll Schools” . That
means, I suppose, the per capita paid per person in all of
your system?

A. That is right.
Q. Now for all schools the average is 83.18; for the

white schools it is 84.27 and the colored, 71.86. Which
shows that the whites are a little above the average and
the colored are considerably below the average. In 1946-
47 the average was 94.30 for all schools; for white children
it was $94.57, and for Negro children it was 91.54; 1947 to
’48 the average was $105.68 for all schools; for white
children $106.30, and for colored children $99.35; 1948-49
the all average was $105.45; for white children $105.68, for
Negro children $103.14. So over that period of years in
every instance the whites have been a little above the aver
age and the Negroes have been considerably below the
average. You knew that sir, didn’t you?
[fol. 436] A. After I figured this out. After I made this
table I could certainly know it.

Q. And you had the material by which you could have
compiled this quite some time ago, didn’t you?

A. Yes.
Q. Now, in the high schools, the average for white chil

dren was $104.35 and the Negro children $84.18, in 1945-
46. In 1946-47, for white children it was $116.84 and for
Negro children $107.32. In 1947-48 for white children
$127.52, for colored children $103.91. 1948-49, for white
children $134.89, and for colored children $124.88?

367

A. Yes.
Q. In every instance there, sir, your white high schools

per capita was higher than your colored per capita?
A. Yes.
Q. As to elementary schools in 1945-46, the per capita

on white children, white elementary children was $70.56,
on colored $62.36. In 1946-47, for whites it was $78.66 and
for colored children $79.12; for 1947-48, $92.33 for white
children and $94.98 for colored. And in 1948-49 $88.25 for
white children and $85.23 for colored. That shows sort of
a pattern, doesn’t it, in your opinion, sir, of spending less
as a general proposition on Negro children, particularly at
the high school level than is spent on whites?
[fol. 437] A. This particular table represents substantially
what you said with the exception of two years there, more
was spent on the colored elementary school than on the
white elementary school children, but in the other years
more was spent on the secondary.

Q. Of course, you will remember that we have con
sistently taken the position that we are concerned about
those above the elementary level?

A. Yes.
Q. This is the Defendants’ Exhibit No. 99 from which

you read for the defendants, and we now ask permission of
the Court to have you read a section into the record—an
other section. Will you begin on page 5, sir, read right on
down through there.

A. This relates to Instruction Program. “The board
believes that the real test of efficiency of a good school
system is the day-to-day performance in the classroom be
tween the teacher and her pupils. For that reason the
board is constantly seeking to secure the services of the
best trained teachers available. Emphasis is placed on a
mastery of the fundamental tools of learning along with
due attention to the cultural aspects of education. One of
the most important phases of the total school program is
that of the physical training and well being of the pupils,
[fol. 438] For years the board has maintained a minimum
health program through the employment of one school
nurse. As the school system continues to grow, it is be
coming increasingly important for these services to be ex

368

panded. The board is seriously considering the addition of
one or two more nurses, and also the establishment of a
dental clinic, primarily for the benefit of children from low
income families. A director of physical education, health,
and safety for the elementary schools will be added to the
staff beginning with the opening of school next fall. He
will be assigned primarily to the task of coordinating the
physical training program in the elementary schools, but
at the same time he will be available as a consultant on
health problems at other levels. Moreover, it is the policy
of the board to work toward the improvement of the phys
ical education and athletic programs of the high schools.
It is difficult to separate these two activities, but it is men
tioned here nevertheless because of the policy of the board
on the subject.”

Q. Dr. Ramsey, when these services which you de
scribed in that paragraph were provided, to what extent
did the Negro schools participate in the use of those serv
ices?

A. Actually all the addition that came out of that rec
ommendation was the addition of the services of our Mr.
[fol. 439] Charles, who is director of physical education for
the school system, with special emphasis on the elemen
tary schools. He is available in a supervisory basis—ca
pacity. He is available on a consultive basis for the col
ored schools as well as the white schools. That paragraph
that I read, may I explain, was more or less on an ideal
basis. It hasn’t been realized—just that one phase of it.

Q. And at that same time you reported that the board
was committed to a well-rounded athletic program in all
sports. Is that correct, sir?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, does the Negro high school have any football,

team or anything or that sort?
A. It doesn’t have a football team.
Q. Does it have a basketball team?
A. No, not so far as I know of.
Q. And to what extent have you devoted your time to

seeing to it that the health program in the Negro high
school was brought up to par? The health program you

369

say here, is of vital concern to the school children. Now,
what have you done to see that the health program has
been expanded and increased in the Negro schools?

A. Well, I have given the principals and the teachers in
charge of the physical education program, my support and
[fol. 440] counsel and have depended upon them to work
out what they considered. I haven’t personally given a
great deal of attention to it, but I have always been avail
able for counsel and advice and have certainly encouraged
them to expand their program in physical education.

Q. You heard Professor Hilliard testify for a number
of years he had taught the only course in physical educa
tion that was given at the Negro high school and that as
such he taught the Negro girls in their physical education
program?

A. Yes.
Q. And in his own opinion, that that was pretty poor

bit of teaching. You knew he was the only teacher the
school had, didn’t you?

A. Yes.
Q. You heard the athletic teacher from the Junior High

School say that in her opinion a man could not do a very
efficient job teaching athletics and physical education to
g'irls?

A. That is right.
Q. All the time you knew that Mr. Hilliard, a man, was

teaching these girls and certainly with your educational
experience, you knew he couldn’t do a good job?

A. I knew it would be better if we had a woman teacher
to handle that subject, but that is one of the difficulties
ffol. 441] inherent in a small school, where you want to
offer a wide curriculum you are limited in offering that
curriculum on account of the small number of persons on
the faculty and frequently due to the limitation of their
training and preparation and experience in the various
fields that you want to offer.

Q. Dr. Ramsey, just leaving out the cause of all these
things. Don’t you want to admit now that these Negro
children have been discriminated against in their educa
tional advantages and opportunities in the Lincoln High
School as over and against those in the white school?

370

A. No.
Q. You don’t want to admit that?
A. No.
Q. Some comment was made about the proposed build

ing program, and some material was taken out of your re
port of February 11, 1946. I call your attention now to a
meeting of the board on July 1, 1946 in which or at which
substantially this report was made. “The bonded debt of
the school district was $513,000.00. He (that is, the super
intendent said) said that by 1953, the debt will be reduced
so that during, or shortly prior to that year, 1953, this pro
gram may be launched.” Do you recall that as a correct
account of what went on at that board meeting?
[fol. 442] A I would assume that is correct.

Q. So then, in these reports that you made, when you
read those elaborate plans, that did not mean that the
board was committed to do these things, did it?

A. Not specifically as to time, but eventually as a part
of an overall expansion program.

Q. You have known for a long time that the Negro
buildings in the system were generally sub-standard,
haven’t you?

A. Well, I knew that many of the buildings in the
school system were sub-standard, including the colored.

Q. You have been sort of putting it off from year to
year, and as a general rule, those that were put off were
the Negro projects, weren’t they?

A. I wouldn’t say that, because in 1936 when we im
proved the plumbing, sanitation facilities of a number of
schools, we spent several thousand dollars on old Howard
School, putting it in good condition, and improved the con
dition.

Q. Now, I show you Defendants’s Exhibits 56 and 57.
Those are the lavatory facilities for the white children,
South Fort Smith for girls and boys?

A. Yes.
Q. To your own knowledge, are there any such facil

ities equal to those in the Lincoln High School for Negroes,
for either boys or girls?

371

[fol. 443] A. No, for these reasons; these were put in in
1949 and the ones in Lincoln High were put in in 1929,
twenty years ago.

Q. This exhibit was put in for the purpose of showing
some of the poor conditions in some of the white schools
and I presume this is some of the worst that you have?

A. There are some worse than that.
Q. I show you the Defendants’ Exhibit No. 55, which

is a classroom at the South Fort Smith School, and I sup
pose that is put in to show the low quality of some of the
classrooms in some of the white schools. I will ask you,
sir, if to your knowledge, there is any furniture in the
Lincoln High School today equal or equivalent to that?

A. These are steel frame chairs I purchased four years
ago, I think 250 or 300 chairs, folding chairs for the audi
torium of the same quality, made by the same manufac
turer, and I would say same quality.

Q. These are not folding chairs, these are stationery
chairs, metal chairs with leather seats and leather backs.

A. No, not leather seats.
Q. Aren’t they leather?
A. No. They are wood. That is substantially the same

type of chair that is represented by those folding chairs,
[fol. 444] Q. But there are no chairs like this at the Lin
coln High School to your knowledge?

A. Not so far as I know.
Q. This is an example of the poor equipment in some

of your white schools?
A. (No answer.)
Q. Dr. Ramsey, just one or two more questions, sir.
T'ate: During the pendency of this trial, Your Honor,

we served an interrogatory on the defendant to which
Mr. Ramsey made answer, and I would like for certain
portions of that to be read into the record, if you please.

The Court: I ’ll tell you what I might do. Do you have
the interrogatories there?

Tate: Yes sir.
The Court: I have read those interrogatories yester

day, just let Booker designate it and you go ahead, unless
there is some questions you want to propound.

372

Tate: A ll we want to do is get Mr. Ramsey’s answer to
interrogatory 1, 2, 3, 4, 4b, 5, 15, 16, 53, 54 and 55 made a
part of the record.

The Court: Just let them be considered read and they
will go into the record.

Mr. Woods: Two or three of those, Your Honor, have
[fol. 445] to do with the Junior College and we object to
that.

The Court: I understand.
(Reporter’s note—At a later time in the trial of the case,

attorneys for defendants asked that all interrogatories
propounded to Dr. Ramsey and his answers thereto, be in
serted in the record. Tnerefore, all interrogatories and
answers thereto are copied into the record here.)

INTERROGATORIES PROPOUNDED TO J. W. RAMSEY

Int. No. 1. Is there provided, operated and maintained
by the Board of Education of Fort Smith, Arkansas and
the Fort Smith Special School District, a Junior College
for the benefit, use and enjoyment of white persons be
tween the ages of six and twenty-one years?

A. There is provided and operated by the Board of
Directors of the Special School District of Fort Smith,
Arkansas, a Junior College. The same is housed in the
Fort Smith Senior High School and is maintained and sup
ported by private tuition paid by the students enrolled
therein, and not by public funds. There are no age limits
or residence requirements for attendance.

Int. No. 2. Is the said Junior College for white persons
of public school age in the Fort Smith Special School Dis
trict provided, operated and maintained from and by
taxes levied, assessed and collected from resident cit-
[fol. 446] izens of Arkansas and the Fort Smith Special
School District?

A. No.

Int. No. 3. Are the following courses, inclusive but
not exclusive, provided at said Junior College for white
children of public school age, as aforesaid, at Fort Smith,,

373

Arkansas and within the Fort Smith Special School Dis
trict:

Art. 13b, Business Law; Biology 13b; Band Music 13b;
Accounting 13b-14b; Chemistry 13b; English 13b-14b;
French 13b; History 13b-14b; International Relations 13b;
Journalism 14b; Economics 13b-14b; Mathematics 13b-14b;
Office machines 14b; Psychology 13a; Typewriting 13b-
14b; Shorthand 13b-14b; Production Printing; Voice 13b-
14b; Violin 13b-14b; Spanish 13b; and Swimming 13b?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 4. Are Negro persons of public school age, as
aforesaid, in the Fort Smith Special School District per
mitted by defendants herein to attend classes and receive
instruction in the said Junior High School which is op
erated and maintained by said defendants for white per
sons of public school age at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. I assume that the drafter of this interrogatory in
advertently used the words “ Junior High School” instead
of the words “Junior College” . In any event, the answer
is no.

[fol. 447] Int. No. 4b. If the answer to question No. 4
herein is in the negative, state why Negro persons of
public school age are denied these privileges of opportuni
ties?

A. Assuming again that this and the preceding inter
rogatory pertain to the “Junior College” , I state that there
has been no denial of such privileges and opportunities
to Negro persons. There is not provided and operated a
Junior College at Lincoln High School for the reason that
there has never been a demand or application therefor on
the part of any Negro student.

Int. No. 5. Does the said Board of Education of Fort
Smith, Arkansas and the Fort Smith Special School Dis
trict provide, operate and maintain for the benefit, use
and enjoyment of Negro persons of public school age, as
aforesaid, any educational opportunities, facilities and ad
vantages for Junior College training and instruction at

374

Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the Fort Smith Special
School District?

A. No.

Int. No. 6. Does the Board of Education of Fort Smith,
Arkansas and the Fort Smith Special School District pro
vide, operate and maintain for the benefit, use and enjoy
ment of white persons of public school age in the said
Special School District a Senior High School?

A. Yes.

[fol. 448] Int. No. 7. Is the said Senior High School for
white persons of public school age operated and maintained
from and by taxes levied, assessed and collected from
resident citizens of Arkansas and of the Fort Smith Special
School District?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 8. Is there provided, operated and maintained in
connection with said Senior High School for the use and
enjoyment of white pupils of public school age, as afore
said, an athletic stadium?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 9. Has the said stadium been in the past or is
it now available for the use and enjoyment of Negro pupils
of public school age, as aforesaid, in the said Special School
District?

A. In the past and when there has been a demand
therefor the said stadium has been made available to
Negro pupils for their athletic contests with other Negro
schools.

Int. No. 10. Have the defendants provided, in the past
or are the defendants now providing, for the Negro children
of public school age, as aforesaid, in the Fort Smith Special
School District, any athletic stadium in connection with
the Lincoln High School for Negroes?
[fol. 449] A. No, for the reason that there has never ap
peared to be a demand therefor. Playgrounds and tennis
courts and other recreation facilities have been furnished

375

and they are adequate for the small enrollment at Lincoln
High School.

Int. No. 11. Are the following courses offered and taught
at the Senior High School for white children of public
school age in the Fort Smith Special School District, to-
wit:

Accounting; Band; Business Law; Commercial Law;
Chemistry; Commercial Geography; Distributive Educa
tion; Journalism; Latin; Linotype operation; Printing press
operation; Metal trades; Office Machines; Physics; Spanish;
Sociology; Shorthand; Typewriting; inclusive but exclu
sive of others?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 12. Have the following courses been offered and
taught or are they now being offered and taught at the
Lincoln High School for Negro children of public school
age in the Fort Smith Special School District, to-wit:

Accounting; Band; Business Law; Commercial Law;
Chemistry; Commercial Geography; Distributive Educa
tion; Journalism; Latin; Linotype operation; Printing press
operation; Metal trades; Office machines; Physics; Spanish,
Sociology; Shorthand; Typewriting; inclusive but ex-
[fol. 450] elusive of others?

A. Of the courses listed herein, only sociology and some
aspects of commercial geography are being offered and
taught at Lincoln High School.

Int. No. 13. Are Negro children admitted to the above
courses at the Senior High School for white children at
Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. No.

Int. No. 14. At what value is machinery and equipment
in the printing trades shops in the Senior High School for
white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas carried in the
records of the Fort Smith Special School District?

A. The approximate first cost was $30,000.00. The
District maintains no system of depreciation.

Int. No. 15. Is there a printing trades shop at the Lincoln
High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

376

A. No. The course of study at Lincoln High School has
been adapted to the opportunities open to Negro students
in this community after they leave Lincoln High School,

Int. No. 16. Have the Negro children of public school
age, as aforesaid, at Fort Smith, Arkansas, and within the
Fort Smith Special School District, in the past or are they
now permitted by the defendants herein, to use the printing
trades equipment and machinery at the Senior High School
for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the
[fol. 451] Fort Smith Special School District for educa
tional purposes?

A. No.

Int. No. 17. If the answer to question No. 16 herein is
in the negative please state why Negro children are not
permitted to use the equipment and machinery mentioned
in question No. 16 herein.

A. No. This interrogatory has been answered in No. 15
above.

Int. No. 18. Is there a two-room faculty lounge provided
for the use and enjoyment of female teachers at the Senior
High School for white pupils at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 19. Is there a faculty lounge provided for the
use and enjoyment of the female teachers at the Lincoln
High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. No. Lounge facilities are not generally provided in
the District for the smaller faculties. There are only 6
female teachers on the Lincoln High School faculty.

Int. No. 20. Is there a cafeteria provided for the use
and enjoyment of the students and teachers at the Fort
Smith Senior High School for white children?

A. Yes. The volume of business is sufficient to make
the operation of a cafeteria at the Senior High School
practical and self-supporting.

[fol. 452] Int. No. 21. Is there a cafeteria provided for the
use and enjoyment of the students and teachers at the
Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

377

A. No. The volume of business at Lincoln High School
is not sufficient to make the operation of a cafeteria there
practical and self-supporting.

Int. No. 22. What is the procurement value of the equip
ment and machinery in the metal trades shop provided and
maintained for the use and enjoyment of white children at
the Senior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas.

A. Practically all of the equipment and machinery in
the metal trade shop of the Senior High School was do
nated by the Federal Government at the beginning of
World War II without cost to the District. I judge that the
approximate procurement value of this equipment would
be not less than $25,000.00.

Int. No. 23. What is the procurement value of the equip
ment and machinery in the metal trades shop provided and
maintained for the use and enjoyment of Negro children
at the Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort Smith,
Arkansas?

A. The procurement value of the equipment and ma
chinery in the general trade shop (mostly woodworking)
at Lincoln High School was approximately $3500.00, all of
[fol. 453] which was bought and paid for by the District.

Int. No. 24. Is the equipment and machinery in the
metal trades shop provided and maintained at the Lincoln
High School for Negroes in use and in good working order?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 25. Are there now and have there been pro
vided in the past courses in metal trades at Lincoln High
School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. Only in a minor way in connection with the general
shop operated at the Lincoln High School.

Int. No. 26. Is there a teacher for metal trades instruc
tion employed at the Lincoln High School for Negroes at
Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. The general shop teacher at Lincoln High School has
a general knowledge of the metal trades and his instruc
tion at the general shop necessarily include some aspects
of metal trade instruction.

378

Int. No. 27. Are there provided metal lockers for the use
and enjoyment of white children at the Senior High School
for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 28. How many metal lockers are provided for
the use and enjoyment of white children at the Senior
High School for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas,
[fol. 454] A. Approximately 1000.

Int. No. 29. What was the total procurement cost of all
metal lockers provided for the use and enjoyment of white
children at the Senior High School for white children at
Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. $7,437.20.

Int. No. 30. Are metal lockers provided for the use and
enjoyment of Negro students at Lincoln High School for
Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. No. Lockers are not provided for any of the schools
of the District with relatively small enrollments.

Int. No. 31. What provisions are made at the Lincoln
High School for Negroes for the safe keeping of the per
sonal property and clothing of Negro students?

A. Adequate coat racks and hangers similar to those in
all the other smaller schools in the School District with
comparable enrollment are provided.

Int. No. 32. What is the procurement value of the books
and equipment provided for the use and enjoyment of the
white students at the Senior High School for white chil
dren at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. There is no present inventory of the procurement
value of books and equipment at the Senior High School
library. However, it has been the practice of the School
Board to expend an average of $1.00 per year per pupil for
library services there.

[fol. 455] Int. No. 33. Are the books and equipment in
the library of the Senior High School for white children
at Fort Smith, Arkansas the property of the Fort Smith.
Special School District.

A. Yes.

379

Int. No. 34. What is the procurement value of the books
and equipment provided for the use and enjoyment of Ne
gro students at Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort
Smith, Arkansas?

A. There is no present inventory of the procurement
value of the books and equipment in the Lincoln High
School library. However, it has been the practice of the
School Board to expend an average of $1.00 per year per
pupil for library services there.

Int. No. 35. Are all of the books and equipment in the
library at the Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort
Smith, Arkansas, the property of the Fort Smith Special
School District?

A. No. (Part of the books in the Lincoln High School
library are supplied by the Carnegie Library Board inas
much as the Lincoln High School library is used to some
extent in off school hours by the adult Negro citizens of
the community.)

Int. No. 36. Is there an auditorium provided for the use
[fol. 456] and enjoyment of the white students at the Sen
ior High School for white children at Fort Smith, A r
kansas?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 37. What is the seating capacity of the audi
torium which is provided for the use and enjoyment of
white children at the Senior High School for white chil
dren at Fort Smith, Arkansas?
. A. Approximately 1000.

Int. No. 38. Is the auditorium in the Senior High School
for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclu
sively as an auditorium?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 39. Is there an auditorium provided for the use
and enjoyment of Negro children at the Lincoln High
School for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 40. What is the seating capacity of the audi
torium provided for the use and enjoyment of the Negro

380

students at the Lincoln High School for Negroes at Fort
Smith, Arkansas?

A. Between 350 and 400 with safety.

Int. No. 41. Is the auditorium at the Lincoln High School
for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclusively as
an auditorium?

A. No.

[fol. 457] Int. No. 42. Is there a gymnasium provided for
the use and enjoyment of white students at the Senior High
School for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 43. What is the seating capacity of the gym
nasium provided for the use and enjoyment of white stu
dents at the Senior High School for white children at Fort
Smith, Arkansas?

A. 700.

Int. No. 44. Is the gymnasium in the Senior High School
for white children at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclu
sively as a gymnasium?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 45. Is the gymnasium in the Lincoln High School
for Negroes at Fort Smith, Arkansas used exclusively as a
gymnasium?

A. No.

Int. No. 46. I f the answer to question No. 45 is in the
negative, please state for what other purposes the gym
nasium at the Lincoln High School for Negroes is used?

A. As an auditorium. (When the combination audi
torium-gymnasium is used as a gymnasium there is seat
ing space for approximately 200 spectators.)

Int. No. 47. Is there operated and maintained by the
Board of Education and the Fort Smith Special School
District, a Junior High School for white children at Fort
[fol. 458] Smith, Arkansas?

A. Yes.

381

Int. No. 48. Is the said Junior High School operated and
maintained by taxes levied, assessed and collected from
resident citizens of Arkansas and the Fort Smith, Arkansas
and the Fort Smith Special School District?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 49. Is there provided, operated and maintained
a swimming pool for the use and enjoyment of the stu
dents at the Junior High School for white children at Fort
Smith, Arkansas?

A. Yes. The swimming pool at the Junior High School
was constructed in 1913. This is the only swimming pool
in the Fort Smith Public School system and its operation
poses a constant administrative and health problem. Dur
ing the last 15 or 20 years various school boards have con
sidered discontinuing the use of the swimming pool and
converting the space occupied by it into [ther] facilities. The
present school board still has under advisement the ques
tion of converting the swimming pool space to some other
use. Based on its experience with the swimming pool in
the Junior High School, the school boards of this District,
past and present, have been convinced that a school swim
ming pool is of questionable value.

[fol. 459] Int. No. 50. Is there provided, operated and
maintained a swimming pool for the use and enjoyment of
Negro students at the Lincoln High School for Negroes at
Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. No.

Int. No. 51. Is there provided, operated and maintained
for the use and enjoyment of white children at the Junior
High School for white children, an auditorium?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 52. What is the seating capacity of the largest
auditorium provided and maintained for the use and enjoy
ment of white children at the Junior High School for white
children at Fort Smith, Arkansas?

A. 1531.

Int. No. 53. Are the facilities of the said auditorium in
the Junior High School for the white children open to and

382

available for the use and enjoyment of Negro students in
the City of Fort Smith and within the Fort Smith Special
School District?

A. No.

Int. No. 54. Are the facilities of the said auditorium in
the Junior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas open to and available for the use and enjoyment
of groups and organizations of adult white persons?
[fol. 460] A. Yes.

Int. No. 55. Are the facilities of the said auditorium in
the Junior High School for white children at Fort Smith,
Arkansas open to and available for the use and enjoyment
of other groups and organizations of adult Negro persons?
A. No.

Int. No. 56. Is there provided a Junior High School at
Fort Smith, Arkansas for the use and enjoyment of Negro
children of public school age, as aforesaid?

A. Yes. At Lincoln School there are 6 grades, 7 to 12
inclusive. Grades 7, 8 and 9 constitute the Junior High
School Division and grades 10, 11 and 12 constitute the
senior division. The junior high school division has an
enrollment of 202 this year, and the senior high school
division has an enrollment of 118 this year. In schools
with a combined enrollment no greater than at Lincoln
High School, it is the customary practice throughout the
State to operate the junior high school and the senior high
school on a combined basis.

Int. No. 57. How old, in terms of years, is the Senior
High School Building operated and maintained for white
children at Fort Smith, Arkansas and within the Fort
Smith Special School District?

A. 20 years.

[fol. 461] Int. No. 58. How old, in terms of years, is the
Lincoln High School Building operated and maintained
for Negro children at Fort Smith, Arkansas and within
the Fort Smith Special School District?

A. The original Lincoln High School building was con
structed in 1893 or 1894. It was enlarged, reconditioned
and largely rebuilt in 1929.

383

Int. No. 59. Did you, on February 26, 1949, conduct a
tour of inspection of the Junior College for white children;
the Senior High School for white children; the Junior
High School for white; and the Lincoln High School for
Negro children, all in Fort Smith, Arkansas and within
the Fort Smith Special School District?

A. Yes.

Int. No. 60. Was there present on said tour of inspec
tion Donald Jones, Regional Secretary of the Southwest
Region of the National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, Dallas, Texas?

A. Yes.
H* Jie ❖ ❖

Q. This morning, we were talking, Dr. Ramsey, and
you said that in making up your program for Negro and
white schools, you considered the future needs of the
Negro and white children. In your experience are their
needs the same or are they different?
[fol. 462] A. They are different in the sense that the op
portunities for placement in the community in gainful oc
cupations are of a narrow opportunity, not as wide an op
portunity as they would be for the whites because pre
ponderantly a white community would have naturally,
more opportunities open, wider variety.

Q. You heard one of the gentlemen who testified here
this morning as a witness for the defendants, a Negro
man who is in the postal service and who says he has
five children who have graduated from the high school
here, and as he accounted for them, every one of them,
are living in another community; one in California and he
named the different places. Don’t you have to consider
the possibility of these people migrating when you train
them? Do you consider that they will just have to stay
here to use their skills?

A. Well, we know that the mobility of the population
of this country is such that there is a good deal more com
ing and going, transferring to other sections than was true,
say, a generation ago, but we are concerned primarily with
the education of the children in this community for this
community.

384

Q. For the 27 years that you have been here as super
intendent, you have used that as a guide in setting up
your courses, is that true?
[fol. 463] A. I would say that is the principal basis, one
of the principal bases which has guided us in the projection
of the curriculum.

Q. Now, Dr. Ramsey, where there are segregated
schools, one of the conditions on which those schools might
be segregated is that they might be separate but equal.
Now, that is a declaration by the Legislature of the State
of Arkansas which is expressive of the public policy of
Arkansas. Is that right, sir?

A. If I understand it, that is the law.
Q. Have you undertaken to substitute your judgment

for that of the Legislature?
A. No, I wouldn’t say that I have.
Q. You haven’t followed the Legislative mandate, you

admit that, don’t you, sir?
A. Well, in the sense that you place it, I suppose you

would interpret it that way.
Q. Then you have acted in violation of the law of

Arkansas?
A. No, I wouldn’t say that. I don’t think that would

be a correct statement. I haven’t knowingly violated the
statutes of the state.

Tate: We pass the witness.
Mr. Woods: I think Your Honor, that the defendants

want to offer in evidence the remainder of Dr. Ramsey’s
answers to the interrogatories.
[fol. 464] The Court: Just let them all go in.

Mr. Woods: Reserving our objection to those—
The Court: I understand.

Re-Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Ramsey, your cafeteria service that has been

discussed here, how is that financed?
A. Through the sale of it. From the sale of meals, in

the elementary schools. The elementary school cafeterias

385

are financed from the sale of meals to pupils and in addi
tion, certain subsidies from the Federal Government.

Q. Is any part of that expense paid out of school funds
•—tax funds?

A. No sir.
Q. Is cafeteria service supplied to all schools of the

system?
A. A ll except—I believe there are three elementary

schools that have a modification of a cafeteria service,
that milk is furnished only, one and two-room schools
where it isn’t practical to have a cafeteria. Lincoln
School, we do not have a cafeteria there.

Q. Tell why.
A. Those few that desire cafeteria—the reason we don’t

have a cafeteria at Lincoln there is not sufficient demand
[fol. 465] on the part of the pupils to make any provision
for it. We have over the years discussed the matter
with the principal and have been repeatedly told that
there wasn’t sufficient demand to warrant making provi
sion for it.

Q. Now, certain employees of the district serve both
schools, isn’t that a fact? You stated in reply to a ques
tion of counsel a moment ago that Mr. Charles, who is the
physical training director—is that his title?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. That he serves all schools, colored as well as white?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that same thing true of the nurse’s services?
A. Yes.
Q. Of the system?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that true of the attendance officer?
A. It is.
Q. The question was asked Professor Greene by coun

sel if dentist service was provided for the colored schools.
I will ask you if a dentist service is supplied for the white
schools of this district?

A . N o.

386

Q. Mr. Ramsey, the colored schools here, both high
school and the three grade schools, all of the teachers, in
cluding Principal Greene, are all members of the Negro
[fol. 466] race, are they not?

A. Yes.
Q. And that applies to janitors and others?
A. That is right.
Q. Other employees serving the schools directly?
A. That is right.
Q. Exclusively?
A. That is right.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

[fol. 467] Witness Excused.
5:00 o’clock Thursday November 10, 1949, the Court

recessed until 9:00 o’clock November 11, 1949.
Friday morning November 11, 1949 at 9:00 o’clock, Court

met pursuant to adjournment.
Mr. Woods: I believe, Your Honor, I w ill ask counsel

if it may be stipulated as to location—the relative loca
tion and juxtaposition of the blocks on which Howard
School and Lincoln High are located.

Booker: That is true. That is correct.
Mr. Woods: I will state it. It is stipulated that the

Lincoln High School occupies an entire block, and that
the new Howard School likewise occupies an entire block,
and that Howard School, the new Howard School occupies
a block which is diagonally across N Street from the block
occupied by Lincoln High. In other words, the southwest
corner of the block occupied by Lincoln School is just
across M Street from the northeast corner of the block
occupied by Howard School.

Booker: That is correct.
Mr. Woods: See if we can stipulated as to the location

of the cafeteria that has been described. It is further
stipulated that the cafeteria which has been described in
evidence as designed to serve both the new Howard School
[fol. 468] and Lincoln High School is located on the block
occupied by the New Howard School and at the intersec
tion of M Street and North Seventh Street, which is the

387

southwest corner of the block occupied by the new Howard
School.

Booker: That is correct.
Mr. Woods: There are just one or two questions we

would like to ask Mr. Ramsey.

J. W. Ramsey, a witness for the defendants, being recalled:

Re-Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Ramsey, it has been stated in evidence that the

tennis courts formerly in use on the Lincoln High School
campus have been eliminated by reason of the construc
tion of the new buildings on that campus. State what
program, if any, is process of completion for the replace
ment of tennis courts for the Lincoln High School.

A. We have drawn plans to relocate the tennis courts.
The matter of the exact location, whether they will be
north of their original location or east of the main build
ing is now under consideration.

Q. Are the tennis courts on the Lincoln High School
campus to be rebuilt?

A. Yes.
[fol. 469] Q. The same number that were there originally?

A. Yes sir.
Q. How many?
A. Two.
Q. And what type of construction?
A. Well, it w ill be a cement base.
Q. You mean concrete?
A. Concrete. With proper back stops and all other

facilities that go with it.
Q. Is that the same type of tennis courts that you have

provided for the Senior High School for whites?
A. It is.
Q. How many tennis courts have you provided there

for the white Senior High?
A. There are two.

338

Q. And you will have the same number?
A. That is right.
Q. For the Lincoln High?
A. That is right.
Q. And the same type of construction?
A. That is right.
Q. Mr. Ramsey, the question was asked and answered

that no training in certain games, such as volley ball, soft-
ball and gaes of that sort are available at the Lincoln High
School. Are such things as that available at the white
[fol. 470] high schools?

A. Yes, and they are also available at Lincoln School
on requisition by the instructor of the necessary equip
ment.

Q. Is there any reason why the instructors, the physical
science instructors at Lincoln High could not have
these same facilities, balls and nets and things of that
sort that are provided at the Senior High?

A. No.
Q. Or Junior High?
A. No.
Q. Are there special facilities necessary for those games

other than balls and bats and nets?
A. So far as I know there is none necessary.
Q. Are there any special facilities for those things pro

vided at the white schools other than balls and nets?
A. No.
Q. And paddles and bats and things?
A. No.
Q. Would they be available to the Lincoln High School

and Negro schools upon request?
A. They would.
Q. It has also been stated in evidence that no arrange

ments for football are provided at the Lincoln High
School. Have they ever had football, competitive football
at the Lincoln High?
[fol. 471] A. Yes.

389

Q. Just tell the Court when and for how long it lasted
and why it was discontinued, if you know.

A. It has been some time since they had regular
organized football. I think perhaps eight or ten years
ago the football team was unable to make both ends meet,
so to speak, and due to financial difficulties had to
abandon its activity.

Q. Was there any other reason why it was abandoned?
A. So far as I know none.
Q. How about the number of students participating?
A. That probably contributed to the fact that it couldn’t

have a credible team due to the small number of students
that participated.

Q. During that time and now there are fewer than a
hundred male students in the three upper grades of
Lincoln High School, isn’t that a fact?

A. Yes, that is right.
Q. Should Professor Greene and his staff at Lincoln

High now recommend the restoration of football as a
competitive sport, would you be prepared to cooperate
with them in providing such a sport for the school?

A. I would. They have considered the matter and are
always willing to cooperate in any kind of activities for
any of the schools.
[fol. 472] Q. Is there any reason why Lincoln High
should not be accorded the privilege of maintaining com
petitive games if the staff of that school recommended it
or asked for it?

A. No.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

Re-Cross Examination.
Tate:
Q. Just one question. Dr. Ramsey, you do maintain a

system of schools for white children, sir, don’t you?
A. We do.
Q. And a system for colored children?
A . W e do.

390

Q. If any member of the white race, regardless of his
national origin, were to present himself for admission to
the white schools you would admit him, would you?

A. Yes.
Tate: Thank you.

Re-Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Mr. Ramsey, I forgot to ask you. During the period

when the Lincoln High operated a football team or had
a football team, what stadium did they use or what field
facilities did they use for their competitive games with
other schools?
[fol. 473] A. On several occasions they used the Grizzly
football stadium.

Q. Was the privilege of playing on that field accorded
them every time they asked for it?

A. So far as I know it was, yes sir.
Q. What is the Grizzly stadium?
A. That is the name of the stadium for the white high

school.
Q. At the Senior white high?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long has that been in existence?
A. I believe it was used first in the fall of ’36—1936.
Q. Prior to that time what facility did the white Senior

High School football team and athletic sports use?
A. It used the city park, better known as Andrews

Field.
Q. Which is not a school operated facility?
A. That is right.
Q. Or a school owned facility?
A. That is right.
Q. Why was the Grizzly stadium in 1936—Is that the

year you said?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Why was a stadium provided for the whites in 1936?

391

A. Well, because it was closer to the school and it
seemed more feasible to have it adjacent to the school
building.
[fob 474] Q. Did the increased number of spectators of
those games have anything to do with it?

A. Yes. I will give you a brief explanation. The
Andrews Field, it is a baseball field, and it is very difficult
to play a football game on a baseball field. The spectator
arrangement is poor and there was some complication be
cause of the organized baseball teams that used it. There
was constant conflict between the two sports, and that
was one factor. Of course, we had difficulty attracting
sufficient crowds at Andrews Field to pay for the sport.

Q. Is football supposed to be self-sustaining, more or
less?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. From the gate receipts?
A. That is right.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness Excused

Dr. M. R. Owens, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as fol
lows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. State your name, please.
A. M. R. Owens.
Q. W ill you state where you live and what your pro

fession is?
[fol. 475] A. I live in Little Rock. My position is direc
tor of the division of instruction in the State Department
of Education. I am also chairman of the Arkansas state
committee of the North Central Association, and chairman
of the commission on secondary schools of the North Cen
tral Association of Colleges and secondary schools.

Q. How long have you held those various positions?

392

A. I have been in my position in the State Department
of Education since 1925 and during that same period of
time have been chairman of the Arkansas state committee.
I am now in my second year as chairman of the commis
sion of secondary schools of the North Central Associa
tion.

Q. Now, what in general, are your duties with refer
ence to the secondary schools of the State of Arkansas?

A. General supervision, including [accredation],
Q. You mean [accredation] with the North Central As

sociation of schools and colleges that has been described
here?

A. According to our organization, the division of in
struction is responsible for general supervision of the white
schools. The supervision of Negro schools is vested in
the division of Negro education. A ll high schools, whether
white or Negro applying for membership in the North
Central Association or already members of the North Cen
tral Association come under my supervision as chairman
of the state committee of the North Central Association,
[fol. 476] Q. Who is head of the service similar to yours
with reference to the colored schools?

A. Dr. McCuistion.
Q. Dr. Owens, did you hear the testimony of Superin

tendent Ramsey on yesterday in which he described the
purposes and functions of the North Central Teacher’s As
sociation?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Do you have anything to add to what he said that

you think might be helpful to the Court?
A. His statement was substantially correct. A ll the

statements that he made were correct. I don’t know of
any particular significance that needs to be added to what
he said.

Q. I will ask you this in connection with that. Does the
North Central Association of schools and colleges prescribe
or recommend any particular or any uniform curriculum
for the high schols of the state?

A . I t d o es n o t .

393

Q. Who does that—who prescribes the courses of study
for the high schools?

A. That is done by the local school authorities.
Q. Local school authorities?
A. Yes. The North Central Association has only this

requirement with respect to curriculum, that the curric
ulum should so far as possible be designed to meet the
[fol. 477] needs of the youth and the community served
by the school.

Q. Dr. Owens, state whether or not there is any direct
connection between the enrollment in any given high school
and the number and variety of courses made available to
the students of that particular school.

A. There is a very definite relationship between enroll
ment and the variety of courses that can be offered. The
larger the school, that is enrollment, the more faculty
members employed and the greater the variety of courses
to be offered.

Q. Now, why is that? What is the fundamental reason
for that?

A. Well, I would say there are two fundamental rea
sons. One is a matter of finance and the other is a matter
of educational policy. A school district can ill afford to
offer courses unless the needs and demand for sufficient
number of pupils justify it.

Q. In other words, there is no point in offering a course
if there are no students desiring to take that particular
course?

A. That is correct. We would rather criticise any
school, regardless of color, for offering courses for too
small number of students.
[fol. 478] Q. Doctor, have you seen the exhibits that have
been introduced here? I will hand you Defendants Ex
hibit No. 96, which is in evidence. I will hand you Defend
ants’ Exhibit No. 96, which is designated as “Lincoln High
School Class Schedule for 1949 and 1950.” Does that rep
resent the courses of study offered by the Lincoln High
School for the designated year? Is that what that is?

A. Yes.
Q. Have you had a chance to look that over?

394

A. Yes.
Q. Have you examined it?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you tell the Court please, considering the en

rollment—Do you know what the enrollment is at the Lin
coln High School?

A. The enrollment in the Senior High School depart
ment, I believe, is 139.

Q. What is the total enrollment of Lincoln High?
A. I believe the enrollment in the Junior High School

department is about 184—approximately 184.
Q. I believe that is right. 184 and 139. Now, assum

ing that the enrollment in the three lower grades of Lin
coln High School, that is, the 7th, 8th and 9th is 184, and
that the total enrollment in the upper grades, that is, the
[fol. 479] 10th, 11th and 12th, is 139. Will you tell the
Court please, if in your opinion the course of study as out
lined in the exhibit which you now have before you is
adequate?

A. I would say yes. The program of studies listed and
the schedule of classes here is considerably more exten
sive than we expect to find in a high school with that en
rollment.

Q. Now, are you confining your statement to Negro
high schools?

A. My statement applies to all high schools in Arkan
sas, white and Negro.

Q. That is, any high school in the State of Arkansas
with an enrollment of that size, you would consider that
an adequate schedule of courses offered?

A. Yes, I would.
Q. Now, have you examined an exhibit that was intro

duced by the plaintiffs yesterday; it is Plaintiffs Exhibit
72, which Mr. Ramsey testified, although this is the class
schedule of Senior High School for 1948-49, and not this
year, but which he testified was practically identical with
the schedule for the first semester of 1949-50. Have you
examined that?

A . Y es, I h a v e lo o k e d t h a t o v e r .

395

Q. Now, doctor, comparing those two schedules—What
[fol. 480] is the first exhibit?

A. 96 and 72.
Q. Defendants’ Exhibit 96 and Plaintiff’s Exhibit 72,

and comparing them, and assuming that the enrollment at
the Lincoln High is 184—Well, let’s eliminate the lower
classes there. We will just make the comparison there—
That the enrollment in the upper three grades of Lincoln
High, that is, 10, 11 and 12 is 139 and that the enrollment
in the Senior High School which comprises the three upper
grades, high school grades, for white students, that is
grades 10, 11 and 12, that the enrollment in those three
grades is approximately 1150. Now, taking those facts into
consideration and comparing those two schedules, will you
tell the Court please, whether or not those two schedules
are substantially equal?

A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, what is the [accredation]—Is that what you

call it— [accredation]—is that the correct word?
A. That is correct.
Q. Was the [accredation] of Lincoln High made under

your jurisdiction?
A. It was.
Q. About 1938?
A. That is right.

[fol. 481] Q. Has the Lincoln High School remained a
member in good standing of the North Central at all times
since 1938 and is it now a member in good standing?

A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, tell the Court whether or not at all times

since 1938, a student completing the course of instruction
offered at Lincoln High School is qualified to meet the en
trance requirements without examination of all college
members of the Association which admit Negro students?

A. The diploma from Lincoln High School is recognized
in all of the North Central Association territory, due to
reciprocal relations would be accepted anywhere in the
United States where high school graduates are admitted
to college on the basis of graduation. Now, to be more

396

specific in answering your question. There are two re
quirements to be met by high school graduates who apply
for admission to college. One is graduation from an ac
credited high school and two, is to present a transcript of
credit that meets the course requirements for admis
sion to the college. Lincoln High School, throughout its
membership, in the North Central Association has offered
a college preparatory course that would meet the admis
sion requirements of accredited colleges and universities,
[fol. 482] Q. Doctor, will you tell the Court whether or
not there is a direct connection between the enrollment of
a school, whether high school or grade school and the
recommended seating capacity of an auditorium provided
for the school?

A. Yes. We don’t have any regulation on that point,
but our recommendation is that the seating capacity be
adequate to [accomodate] the student body.

Q. It is not the recommendation and the usual practice
in the state for a school district to provide a public audi
torium for the citizenship generally?

A. That is not a requirement, no.
Q. Well, is it a custom?
A. Well, in many instances yes and in many no.
Q. Where provision is made for public auditoriums at

the expense of a school district?
A. No. What I am saying there is that usually the

school auditorium is open for public meetings, subject to
the approval of the Board of Education.

Q. Yes. A ll right. Doctor, quite a little was said yes
terday in the cross examination of Mr. Ramsey about a
stadium—the absence of a stadium at Lincoln High School.
Will you tell the Court what a stadium is?

A. Well, a stadium is a facility for athletic contests.
In this state usually football, providing a playing field,
[fol. 483] seats for spectators and usually enclosed by a
wall fence.

Q. The stadium part of it particularly is that of a facil
ity provided primarily for the benefit of the students of a
school or for spectators who come to see a competitive
game?

397

A. Well, both.
Q. Now, doctor, state whether or not there is any di

rect connection between the enrollment in a high school
and the presence there of organized sports, such as foot
ball?

A. Oh, yes, there is a very close connection.
Q. Explain what you mean by that answer.
A. Well, for example, in order that a school may have

a football team that can engage in competitive athletics,
there would have to be a sufficient enrollment to provide
the talent or those who are interested in playing football.

Q. And what is the situation with reference to a small
enrollment, not more than 50% of which consists of male
students ?

A. Well, in this particular instance, I believe the en
rollment in the Senior High School grades is 139. I don’t
know what the percentage of enrollment by boys may be,
but it would certainly be less than half, according to the
pattern for the state, so it would be somewhere between
[fol. 484] 60 or 70 boys. That is an approximate estimate.

Q. Is it customary for the high schools of the State of
Arkansas with a male enrollment of not more than 60 or
70 students to engage in competitive football?

A. Some of them try it, usually it doesn’t succeed very
well.

Q. Now, doctor, have you in company with Dr. Mc-
Cuistion visited the new Howard Grade School here in
Fort Smith?

A. Yes sir.
Q. When did you do that?
A. Yesterday morning.
Q. Did you go through the building and observe the

arrangements, the classroom arrangements?
A. We went all through it.
Q. And the facilities and so forth?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Tell the Court whether or not in your opinion, that

building as now equipped and to be equipped as you under
stand it is to be done, is adequate for the purpose for which
it has been provided?

398

A. One of the very best in the state.
Q. When you say one of the very best in the state, are

you confining that statement to Negro schools?
A. No, I am including both Negro and white.

[fol. 485] Q. And are you confining your comparison to
grade schools only or to schools of all kinds?

A. I would say schools of all types.
Q. High schools and grade schools?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, doctor tell the Court whether or not you have

made a similar inspection of Lincoln High School, includ
ing the new buildings and facilities, either completed or
in the course of construction or installation?

A. I have.
Q. When did you do that?
A. Yesterday morning.
Q. Did you make that inspection in company with Dr.

McCuistion?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Tell the Court whether or not, the building when

completed, according to what you saw will adequately
serve the purpose for which those facilities are intended.

A. It will.
Q. Doctor, have you been in or inspected or what do

you know about the facilities provided at the Senior High
School for whites?

A. I have visited the white school.
Q. And have you also visited the Junior High School for

[fol. 486] whites in Fort Smith?
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, if you can, I wish you would tell the Court

how Lincoln High School, when the program that you
saw is completed, how that will compare in an overall
way with the aggregate facilities provided by the Senior
High School and Junior High School for whites?

A. I would say in an overall way, in terms of adequacy
for the educational program that will be offered, and con
sidering the number of pupils served, that is substantially
equal to the white schools.

399

Q. Substantially equal to the facilities offered by the
two white high schools?

A. Yes sir.
Mr. Woods: That is all.

Cross Examination.
Tate:
Q. Dr. Owens, you have given a general description of

what the duties of your office are, and I think that they
might be described in a more detailed way in Section 11,
453 of the school laws that is entitled “Functions of Board” .
That is a sub-head under the title “Duties of the Board
and Commissioner of Education” , that is the office out of
which you work, isn’t it?

A. That is correct.
[fol. 487] Q. I read from the law: “ The Board shall have
general supervision of the public schools of the State;
prepare and distribute plans and specifications for the
construction and equipment of school buildings, and ap
prove plans and expenditures of public school funds for
all new school buildings; recommend courses of study
for the public schools and teacher training institutions;
prescribe rules and regulations for the sanitary inspection
of all buildings, and for the examination of pupils to de
tect contagious and infectious diseases and physical de
fects; issue certificates based upon credentials presented
by applicants for certificates to teach in the public schools
of the State; qualify and standardize public schools and
prescribe requirements for accrediting and grading public
schools; supervise the operation of school district budgets;
supervise the purchase and distribution of textbooks; take
such other action as it may deem necessary to promote the
physical welfare of school children and promote the
organization and increase the [efficienty] of the public
schools of the State; and perform all other functions which
may now or hereafter be delegated to the State Board of
Education by law, provided however that nothing in this
act shall prohibit the State Board of Education and the
Department of Education from issuing teachers Certifi-
[fol. 488] cates upon the results of teacher’s examinations

400

as now provided by law.” That is a statement of your
duties, is that right, sir?

A. That is an overall statement defining the duties and
responsibilities of the entire State Department of Educa
tion. My division is just one of the several divisions in
the Department of Education.

Q. Now, you stated also that your department works
under the desire and mandate to create such courses of
study as will meet the needs of the youth and serve the
community best in which the school is located. Is the
roughly what you said?

A. That don’t mean that the courses of study are neces
sarily prepared in our office.

Q. You approve those?
A. We approve them, yes.
Q. Now, nowhere in the law is there made any dis

tinction as to race in providing courses, is there?
A. That is correct.
Q. So that when you design courses, you design them

for all the youth, don’t you?
A. We do not design courses. We approve courses.
Q. When you approve courses, you approve them with

the understanding that those courses are provided for all
the youth in the community which the school serves,
ffol. 489] don’t you?

A. We would not expect, in fact we would not approve
uniform courses at the Senior High School level for all
students.

Q. No, but I mean in the particular community.
A. I am not making a distinction between the races

there.
Q. You aren’t authorized to do that, are you?
A. We would be opposed to it even if we were au

thorized to do it. It is not educationally sound.
Q. It is not educationally sound?
A. That is right.
Tate: Thank you very kindly. We pass the witness.
Witness Excused.

401

Ed McCuistion, called as a witness on behalf of the de
fendants, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.
Mr. Woods:
Q. Will you state your name, please?
A. Ed McCuistion.
Q. Mr. McCuistion, where do you live and what is your

profession?
A. I live in Little Rock and serve as director of the

[fol. 490] division of Negro education in the State De
partment of Education.

Q. How long have you held that position?
.A. Since it was created.
Q. When was it created?
A. About four years ago.
Q. Were you with the Department of Education prior

to that?
A. I have been with the Department for 20 years.
Q. What were your duties before the division of Negro

education was organized—put into effect?
A. When I came to the Department of Education I

worked jointly with the—at that time the department of
instruction headed by Dr. Owens and the department of
Negro education by Dr. Irby.

Q. Well, I thought you said that the department of
Negro education was just organized four years ago?

A. The division. We established divisions in the de
partment four years ago.

Q. I see. Now, what are your duties in your present
position?

A. Pardon me. There was one other service that I
render, director of teacher education and certification. I
had charge of that program for six years.

Q. Prior?
A. Prior to becoming director of division of Negro

education.

402

[fol. 491] Q. Now, as director of the division of Negro
education in Arkansas, just state briefly what your general
duties are.

A. Well, for Negro schools I perform a similar func
tion that is performed by the white schools by Dr. Owens.
I have general administration, supervision and direction
of the elementary and secondary schools for the Negro
separate schools of the state.

Q. What is the purpose of your division? What is
that you attempt to do?

A. To render the same type of service from our depart
ment to the Negro schools that the similar division renders
for the white schools.

Q. A ll right. To advance the Negro education in the
state, is that the idea?

A. That is right. To help guide and foster the develop
ment, operation and elevation of an effective Negro
schools in the state.

Q. Now, are you familiar with the administration and
physical facilities and all of the Lincoln High School for
Negroes in Fort Smith?

A. I am.
Q. Iiow long have you been familiar with those things?
A. Well, I think the first time I went through both the

Negro and white systems of the Fort Smith schools, was
[fol. 492] in cooperation with Dr. Owens ten years ago.

Q. Was that about the time the school was admitted to
membership in the North Central Association?

A. I think it was the year following.
Q. You heard the statement of Dr. Owens today and

the statements of Mr. Ramsey on yesterday with reference
to the purpose and functions of the North Central Associa
tion of schools and colleges?

A. I did.
Q. Do you have anything to add to what they said that

you think might be helpful to the Court?
A. Well, I would like to add that one of the first things

I noticed in this school system, was that the Negro
principals met in council with the white principals and

403

superintendent in planning an overall effective program
for the entire city, and to me that was the first time I
had made that observation in any sizable school system
operating a dual program.

Q. That is the custom in Fort Smith?
A. That to me was an observation that I made there

and have noted since in visiting in the schools of the city.
Q. Anything else that you want to add to what they

have said with reference this association and the Lincoln
High School connection with it?

A. I believe not.
[fol. 493] Q. Now, doctor, something has been said in
evidence here and I didn’t ask Dr. Owens this, I don’t be
lieve, but something has been said about class “A ” , “B”
and “ C” high schools in the State of Arkansas. Will you
tell the Court what that is, what is meant by that?

A. Well, in our supervisory functions in the state, we
have set up the “A ” , “B” and “C” gradation of schools to
indicate development of effective school practices.

Q. Is that a state grade?
A. That is a state program that has been recommended

by the advisory staff to the state board and adopted as
their policy with a minimum standard for admission of
a school to the “ C” grade grading, and after a period of
[proficienty] there they go to the “B” , and when found
effective there they can go on to the “A ” , and they must
go through that gradation and be classified as an “A ” school
before eligible for application and admission to the North
Central Association.

Q. In other words, a school must come up to the stand
ard of an “A ” rating under the Arkansas program before
it is eligible for admission into the North Central Associ
ation that you have been referring to?

A. That is correct. There is a period of cultivation we
feel that is essential in order to give the quality neces
sary to maintain the standards held up by the North Cen-
[fol. 494] tral.

Q. Does that mean that the Lincoln High School has
been classified under the state department’s set-up as an
“A ” school since 1939?

404

A. Lincoln High, like any school, is under the immedi
ate direction of the local school authorities and they apply,
voluntarily, for admission to these various gradations, and
if found that they meet them they are admitted.

Q. Well, that don’t quite answer my question. I asked
if Lincoln High School has been admitted to an “A ” grada
tion by your department?

A. They were previous to becoming North Central.
Q. And are they now listed in the gradation of “A ” ?
A. They are not. A school that goes from “ C” to “B”

is no longer listed in the “ C” , and from “B” to “A ” is
no longer listed in the “B” .

Q. How is Lincoln High School rated now?
A. They are not rated now as either “A ” , “B” or “ C” ,

because they have graduated from that gradation.
The Court: They are just simply members?
A. They are just simply members of the North Central

Association.
Q. Now, doctor, I will ask you to examine Defendants’

Exhibit No. 96, which is the schedule of subject offerings
[fol. 495] for Lincoln High School for Negroes for the
first semester for 1949-50 school year. Have you exam
ined that heretofore?

A. I have not.
Q. Will you please examine it, sir? Have you exam

ined it now to your satisfaction?
A. Yes sir, I think I recognize what I have seen in

visiting each of the several rooms that are operated in
Lincoln High.

Q. Now, doctor, considering that the enrollment in the
Lincoln High School for which that program of studies is
provided, has an enrollment in the three lower grades,
7th, 8th and 9th, of 184, and in the three upper grades,
the 10th, 11th and 12th, have an enrollment of 139, and
tell the Court whether or not in your opinion that course
of study prescribed there is adequate.

A. It is in my opinion.
Q. I will ask you to examine Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 72,

which has been identified as class schedule for the Senior

405

High School for whites for the school year 1948-49, and
which Mr. Ramsey testified is substantially the same pro
gram as that offered in the first semester this year. 1 will
ask you to examine that, please sir. (Witness looks at
paper). A ll right, have you examined that schedule to
your satisfaction?
[fol. 496] A. I have seen all the items that are listed
here. Yes sir.

Q. Now, doctor, assuming that the three higher grades
in the Lincoln High School, grades 10, 11 and 12, have a
total enrollment of 139, and that the Senior High School,
which consists of grades 10, 11 and 12, the same grades to
the white students, has an enrollment of approximately
1150, tell the Court whether or not those two schedules,
that is the schedule for the Lincoln High School and the
schedule for the Senior High School for whites are sub
stantially equal.

A. Well, it seems to me there that I would want to
divide the number of students in this curriculum at Lin
coln High by the number of offerings or units, high school
units offered, and do a similar thing of the Senior High
class schedule for the semester indicated at the white
high school; divide the total student body, taking that
curriculum by the units of credit offered to get a factor
there that would give the relative number of students per
unit.

Q. When that is done—when you do that, tell the Court
whether or not you find that those two schedules are on
a substantial equality?

A. It would be my estimate that there would be a
greater number of students allocated to the courses listed
at the Senior High School than you would find in the
[fol. 497] smaller enrollment at the Lincoln High School.

Q. I don’t know whether that quite answers my ques
tion or not. Do you mean by that that a better schedule
is offered considering the number of students—a better
schedule offered at Lincoln High or a better schedule
offered to Senior High for whites?

A. It would indicate that according to the people to
be processed by the course of study at Lincoln High, there

406

are a greater variety of courses than there are at the
Senior High School.

Q. Doctor, have you inspected the new school—the
new Howard School for Negroes here in Fort Smith?

A. I have. I was here when it was being located and
while it was in process of building and I went through
it again yesterday morning.

Q. In company with Dr. Owens?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you visit the different rooms and observe the

different facilities?
A. Yes sir. I have been in all the rooms.
Q. Doctor, tell the Court whether or not in your opin

ion, that building is adequate for the purpose for which
it is provided?

A. I think it is very much so.
[fol. 498] Q. Tell the Court how that school, that facility,
compares generally with other schools in your jurisdiction
throughout the state.

A. Well, as local school units have made money available
to the school board—

Q. Just answer the question. How does that compare
with the other school facilities throughout the state?

A. As a new facility, I would rank it as the best ele
mentary school for Negroes that I have been in.

Q. Compare that facility, the new Howard School with
similar facilities for white students throughout the state;
what is the comparison?

A. Well, I have been in a number of new elementary
facilities and it compares very favorably for the size stu
dent body to be served, very favorably.

Q. Do you know of any facility for whites that is su
perior to that?

A. I do not.
Q. In the State of Arkansas?
A. I do not.
Q. I will ask you if you made a similar inspection of

the Lincoln High School, including the new buildings and
facilities that have been completed or in process of con

407

struction and installation; if you have made a recent in
spection of that?
[fol. 499] A. Yes sir, I have.

Q. When was that?
A. My most recent was yesterday morning.
Q. In company with Dr. Owens?
A. Correct.
Q. Doctor, will you tell the Court in your opinion of

the facilities, the facilities provided there at this time and
in course of construction and completed, are adequate for
the purpose for which they are being provided?

A. I would say at this time they are not. They have
not on my inspection at any time been adequate. They
are in process now of completion of what I think would be
adequate.

Q. In other words, the construction work and installa
tions now being completed, will render the facility ade
quate for the purpose for which they are intended?

A. I believe so.
Q. You are not in position to compare that facility with

the white schools, are you?
A. Well, not in recent years. I have inspected both

the Junior High and Senior High in years past, but I am
not at present.

Mr. Woods: That is all.

Cross Examination.
Tate:

[fol. 500] Q. Now, Dr. McCuistion, you have before you
the schedule of courses at the Lincoln High School for
Negro students in Fort Smith and you have described that
as an adequate course. Now, there has been testimony in
this lawsuit that the Lincoln High School is prepared by
all of the facilities necessary to a school to issue various
types of diplomas, including an academic diploma. Now,
1 am reading from the requirements for graduation of the
Fort Smith high schools and under the requirements for
an academic diploma, it requires that there be two units
in algebra. Now, looking at this schedule, could you tell
whether or not a student would get two units in algebra?

408

A. The schedule lists algebra at two places for the 9th
grade in the first column, in the line next to the bottom,
and in tiie third column in the line next to the bottom.

Q. So then from that, you gather that there would be
two units?

A. From that I would gather that there are at least two
classes in algebra. Any given schedule for any given year
may have one unit of Latin, say given that year, and the
second unit given the second year, alternating.

Q. What I am asking you now is, can you by looking
at this schedule tell that that is the same course offered in
both the 9th and 10th grades, just by looking at this sched-
[fol. 501] ule, can you tell that?

A. By looking at the schedule, it has a 9 in front of the
first column and a 10 in front of the third column there
with algebra, and I would infer from that that it is algebra
in the 9th grade and algebra in the 10th grade.

Q. You have make an inference to do that, you can’t
tell from the schedule, can you?

A. Well, I can tell that as much as I can any other item,
in there.

Q. If you will refer to the schedule for white students,
you wili see that algebra is described as Algebra I, Algebra
II, Algebra III, and so on; juatin I, Latin II, and Latin III,
which indicates a progression of courses, but here you just
have the blank word algebra, don’t you?

A. My answer would have to be there, in preparing
curricula for any given school or a number of schools in a
district, the local school authorities may prepare different
curricula to meet the different needs as brought out by the
student body to be served in the various sections of a city
with or without regard to color.

Q. Now, sir, will you answer my question? I put the
question to you again. Looking at the schedule, can you
tell whether those are two different courses in algebra?

A. They so appear to me.
[fol. 502] Q. It now becomes your opinion that they are;
is that correct, sir?

A. My judgment that they are.

409

Q. A ll right, sir. Thank you. Now, it is your duty in
the school system to render the same type service to the
Negro schools that Mr. Owens renders to the white schools,
is that correct, sir?

A. That is essentially and generally correct. Yes sir.
Q. That indicates then that there two separate school

systems in the State of Arkansas, doesn’t it, a system for
whites and a system for Negroes, don’t it?

A. As I understand it, we have a dual system set up
provided by law which we administer.

Q. You operate under the theory of school provision
which is known as the separate but equal system, don’t
you?

A. I have heard it so described; yes sir.
Q. That means then that it is your duty to provide equal

educational opportunities for Negroes as those provided
for whites by Mr. Owens?

A. It does not. It is my duty to supervise the Negro
part of the dual system as provided at the separate state
units represented over the state.

Q. Now, in appraising a school, Dr. McCuistion, what
are all the elements that you consider in appraising the
quality, the value of a program? What things do you eon-
[fol. 503] sider? May I withdraw that question? We
withdraw it. In order to have a school, you must have [ac
comodation] of buildings, teachers, pupils, books and teach
ing material. Is that correct?

A. Yes.
Q. Now, you have made an evaluation of the Howard

School for Negroes here in Fort Smith. Have you visited
that building lately?

A. I have visited the building, the old building.
Q. No sir, the new building?
A. I have.
Q. When did you visit that last?
A. I visited the Howard School yesterday morning.
Q. Did you find a building there, sir?
A. I did.
Q. Did you find any school furniture there?

410

A. I did.
Q. Did you find every room in the building equipped

with furniture?
A. I did not. I judged it to be in process.
Q. So that as of today, there is no Howard School func

tioning, is there, for Negroes in Fort Smith, Arkansas?
A. There is a Howard School functioning at the old

school.
Q. But not at the new?
A. It is not functioning in the new building.

[fol. 504] Q. Did you visit the grounds of the Lincoln
School?

A. I did.
Q. You saw a building under construction on the

campus there, did you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that building I believe, is referred to as a shop

building?
A. Vocational educational building was the term I used.
Q. Were the rooms in that building equipped for teach

ing?
A. That building is in process of completion—of con

struction now—and the equipment was not placed.
Q. Did you see any operating shop on the campus of

Lincoln School?
A. I did not.
Q. So that, would you say then that they do have a

shop as of today?
A. I understand that they do have from testimony

yesterday by Dr. Ramsey that they do have a temporary
shop in operation.

Q. And you visited that school for the purpose of see
ing what they had, didn’t you?

A. I visited the school primarily at this time to see
what additional facilities have been placed or are being
placed since my last visit of a month ago.

Q. Did you concern yourself with seeing what had
been displaced or discontinued?

411

[fol. 505] A. Well, it is practically impossible to build
new facilities on a campus—-

Q. That isn’t my question. Would you answer my
question?

A. I will be glad to if I understand it clearly.
Q. I said, did you concern yourself to see whether any

of the services that once existed there have been discon
tinued?

A. I did.
Q. And did you find that the shop had been discon

tinued as a functioning unit?
A. I did not.
Q. Will you tell us where the shop is?
A. I do not know. According to the testimony given

here yesterday, it is in another room, temporarily func
tioning.

Q. I am asking you as to your own experience, Dr.
McCuistion. Did you see a shop there?

A. I said that I did not.
Q. Yes sir. Thank you. Now, I believe you testified

that the Lincoln School as an entity now is not an adequate
school. Did you testify that just a moment ago?

A. I did.
Q. If that was true then, it was not an adequate school

on December 10, 1948, was it?
A. Since I visited it, I have felt that it was not an

adequate school in a number of details.
[fol. 506] Q. Yes sir. Thank you very kindly, sir.

Tate: That is all.
Mr. Woods: That is all.
Witness Excused.

Mr. Woods: That is all, if the Court please, except on
yesterday over our objections the Court permitted an
amendment to be filed by the plaintiffs, an amendment to
their complaint, and we would like at this time to file
a motion to strike that amendment.

The Court: Just let the motion be filed and I will not
pass on it right now.

412

Mr. Woods: Yes sir. I assume that the Court would
want to pass on it when he—

The Court: I will pass on it later.
Mr. Woods: Now, attached to the motion are the au

thority upon which we rely. Now, if the Court please,
without waiving the motion and reserving all of our rights
under it, we would like at this time to file an answer to
the amendment to the complaint—file an answer to the
amendment to the complaint.

The Court: A ll right.
Mr. Woods: Now, just one other statement that we de

sire to make for the clarification of the record. I don’t
[fol. 507] think there is any confusion there, but counsel
have referred throughout the trial—they have used the
word “ Stipulation”—there is a stipulation that the grade
school situation is not involved in this case. There is no
stipulation to that effect. The Court understands our
attitude.

The Court: I understand the situation, that is, they are
just simply making no contention.

Mr. Woods: That is right. We don’t want the record
to be confused in that respect.

The Court: There isn’t any confusion about that.
Mr. Woods: That is the defendants’ case.
The Court: Have you any rebuttal?
Booker: None, Your Honor.
This Is A ll the Testimony Introduced in the Case.

(Oral Opinion of the Court.)

This case is of such importance that if the Court thought
that he could add anything to the literature and to the
logic and reasoning of the various decisions that are now
in our law books I would defer determination of the case
and write a formal opinion in order that a full statement
of my reasons for the conclusions that I have reached might
appear in the books, but I do not think any useful purpose
would be served by writing an opinion—a formal opinion,
[fol. 508] Of course, I know that before any judgment is
entered, formal findings of fact and conclusions of law,

413

separately stated, must be prepared and filed, but since the
case has been well and thoroughly tried by both sides, I
think it can be disposed of at this time. I congratulate
all of you upon the manner of handling the case. I think
you have done an excellent job on both sides. I think all
of you have a clear understanding of the law. The only
question in dispute or real conflict between the plaintiffs
and defendants is their construction or application of the
law to the facts as they view them. It could not be ex
pected that after a suit like this has been filed and tried
that the parties would be in agreement upon the facts.

In order that all of you may know the manner in which
I have approached the case, and I think you are entitled
to know that, I want to review briefly the issues that are
involved under the pleadings in the case.

The amended complaint was filed July 9, 1949, and
clearly defines the allegations and the issues from the
standpoint of the plaintiffs, and that complaint and the
answer makes the issues. In paragraph 2 of the amended
complaint the plaintiffs allege: “Plaintiffs show further
that this is a proceeding for a declaratory judgment and
injunction under Section 274 D of the Judicial Code for
the purpose of determining a question of actual con-
[fol. 509] troversy between the parties, to-wit: The ques
tion of whether the practice of the defendants in adopting,
enforcing, and maintaining the policy, custom and usage
of the defendants, and each of them, in maintaining in
adequate, unsanitary, unsafe and inferior schools, school
facilities and curricula for Negro children in the
City of Fort Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, between
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21), while maintain
ing modern, sanitary, safe and superior schools, school
facilities and curricula for white children in said Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, constitutes a denial
of the right to the plaintiffs, their children and those
in whose behalf this suit is brought to equal protection
of law and of privileges guaranteed to plaintiffs under
the Fourteenth (14th) Amendment to the Constitution of
the United States.”

Then follows other allegations which amplify that thought
and contention which it is not necessary for the Court to
state.

414

You will find that I have underscored these allegations
in the complaint in my consideration, but after all is said
and done the further allegations are, as I say, merely an
amplification of that principle to which I have referred.

The prayer of the complaint is divided into two divi
sions. The first is: “ That this Court adjudge, decree and
[fol. 510] declare the rights and legal relations of the
parties to the subject matter herein in controversy in order
that such declaration and decree shall have the force and
effect of a final judgment and decree: ” Second: “ That
this honorable Court enter a judgment, order and decree
declaring that the policy, custom and usage of the defend
ants and each of them, in maintaining and furnishing school
buildings and school facilities for Negro chldren between
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years in Fort
Smith, Sebastian County, Arkansas, which are unsafe,
unsanitary, unequal and inferior to those furnished to
white children of school age in said City of Fort Smith,
Sebastian County, Arkansas, is a denial of the equal pro
tection of laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth (14th)
Amendment to the Constitution, and is therefore, uncon
stitutional and void;” then the third and fourth para
graphs of the prayer are for permanent injunctions en
joining the defendant school board and its successors from
discriminating against the negro schools and to require the
board to carry out the decree of the Court in accordance
with the rights and duties declared in the first two divi
sions of the prayer.

The personal status of the plaintiffs as alleged in the
complaint is admitted. They base their action primarily
[fol. 511] upon this provision of the 14th Amendment to
the Constitution of the United States. It is Section 2 of
the 14th Amendment: “No State shall make or enforce
any law which shall deny to any person within its juris
diction the equal protection of the laws.”

There isn’t any direct assault made upon the laws of the
State of Arkansas, although implicit in the complaint may
be: found an attack upon segregation provided by the laws
of Arkansas, but I do not consider that the contention is
urged with the intention of questioning the constitution
ality of the laws of Arkansas,,

415

Article 14 of our State Constitution reads this way: “ In
telligence and virtue being the safeguards of liberty and
the bulwark of a free and good government, the State shall
ever maintain a general, suitable and efficient system of
free schools whereby all persons in the State between the
ages of six and twenty-one years may receive gratuitous
instruction.” Then follows a provision which provides for
the supervision of the public schools and execution of laws
and regulating them by such officers as may be provided
by the Legislature. Arkansas by statute has vested the
management of local schools such as this and all other
independent school districts in a board of directors. The
statute of Arkansas is found in the Statutes of 1947, section
80-509, and requires the board of directors of school dis-
[fol. 512] tricts to “ establish separate schools for white
and colored persons.” Now, as I say, I do not consider
the constitutionality of that statute directly involved in
this proceeding. Similar statutes are being attacked in the
Supreme Court of the United States in cases on certiorari
from the State of Texas and the State of Oklahoma. It
will be soon enough to discuss that when the Supreme
Court has made its pronouncement, and regardless of what
my opinion might be as to the constitutionality of the
Arkansas statute, I think it is beside the point at this time.
Thus, you find under the constitution and laws of Arkan
sas, negro students are entitled to school facilities equal
to those furnished to white students. It is recognized, how
ever, that administration of the laws at the local level may
be such as to discriminate against one of the races in viola
tion of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment
even though the laws themselves are, as here, fair and non-
discriminatory on their face. So, accepting the law of
Arkansas as it is written, the question whether or not the
enforcement of these laws, as they are, and the constitu
tion, as it is, at the local level in the defendant school
district is such as to bring the action of the defendant
school board within the ban and provision of the 14th
[fol. 513] Amendment to the Constitution of the United
States and whether there is in fact such discrimination.

Counsel refer to the case of Maddox, et al. v.
Neal, et al., 45 Ark 121, decided by Chief Justice Cockrill
of the Supreme Court of Arkansas in 1885. That opinion

416

is one of the best statements, not only of the law then but
of the law now, that I know of, regardless of the many,
many decisions by other courts. He said this:

“A ll the provisions of the law in relation to schools, in
conformity to the constitutional mandate, are general, and
the system, as far as the statute can make it, is uniform.
No duty is imposed upon, or discretion given to the direc
tors about schools for one race that is not applicable to
the other. It is the clear intention of the constitution
and statutes alike, to place the means of education within
the reach of every youth. Education at the public expense
has thus become a legal right extended by the laws to all
the people alike. No discrimination on account of nation
ality, caste or other distinction has been attempted by the
law-making powers. The boards of directors are only
the agents, the trustees appointed to carry out the system
provided for. Their powers are no greater than the au
thority conferred by legislation. They can do nothing
they are not expressly authorized to do or which does not
grow out of their express powers. In treating of this sub-
[fol. 514] ject a learned author says: ‘The general prin
ciples of constitutional law, undoubtedly govern the di
rectors’ actions as they do the actions of higher authorities,
and whatever would violate those principles would be an
excess of power on their part.’ Cooley Torts 289. The op
portunity of instruction in the public schools, given by the
statute to all the youths of the state, is in obedience, as
we have seen, to the special command of the constitution,
and it is obvious that a board of directors can have no
discretionary power to single out a part of the children by
the arbitrary standard of color, and deprive them of the
benefits of the school privilege. To hold otherwise would
be to set the discretion of the directors above all law. If
they may lawfully say to one race you shall not have the
privilege which the other enjoys, they can abridge the
privileges of either until the substantive right of one or
both is destroyed. The separate education of the two
races in accordance with the terms and spirit of the law
is no wrong to either. In the absence of express legisla
tion the subject, the directors might have provided for
this under their general powers.. (Citing cases.)

417

“But it is universally held that this discretion cannot
be exercised so as to produce undue inequality in the
[fol. 515] educational advantages offered.” (Citing cases.)

That is one of the clearest statements of the law in
reference to the maintenance of separate systems of
schools that I know of. I don’t think anything can be
added to it. I don’t think anything has ever been added
by any court to that statement by Chief Justice Cockrill,
fixing the rights and liabilities in such a case as the one
now before the Court.

There has been a great deal of litigation in these cases
because boards of directors, and I say this without criti
cism of boards of directors, sometimes have failed to real
ize that they are confronted with a reality in which their
discretion cannot be exercised in the sense that their in
dividual impulses or opinions or beliefs cannot supersede
the law, but that they are confronted with a law, a man
date, a requirement of substantial equality as nearly as
that equality can be obtained and can be retained through
out the entire school system over the years.

I do not think anything need to be said about the Gaines
v. Canada case that went up from Missouri, or the case
that went up from Oklahoma, or the other various cases
that have been before the Federal courts all over our land,
because after all is said and done it goes back to the ques
tion that it is the duty of the board to maintain schools
of substantial equality—I mean, systems of substantial
[fol. 516] equality.

Of course, we know and everyone knows that absolute
parity cannot be provided. If it were attained in two
systems it could probably never be maintained consist
ently at all times, but the law doesn’t look at trivialities,
it looks at the substance of the question. As was said
by the Supreme Court of Arkansas in 1938, Krause v.
Thompson, 138 Ark. Page 571, Chief Justice McCulloch
made this statement:

“School facilities must, of course, be afforded where
taxation for the maintenance of the schools is imposed, but
precise equality and uniformity is unattainable, especially
in the matter of furnishing school facilities, for the reason

418

that necessarily the location of rural schools is more acces
sible to some of the patrons than to others. Approximate
equality and uniformity is all that is expected or required.”

I think that is the law. That approximate equality and
uniformity is all that is expected and required. I think
you could search the decisions of every court in the coun
try and you would find those principles are sound.

The question before the Court whether the policies,
usages and customs of defendants actually discriminate
against the plaintiffs and others similarly situated on
account of their race or color is a factual one. If discrim-
[fol. 517] ination is shown to exist and if the Court finds
that discrimination exists, since this is a suit in equity,
then the nature and extent of the discrimination should be
considered by the Court in the exercise of that judicial
discretion of a court of equity in determining what relief
is proper and the time within which relief must be af
forded.

With that approach the Court now proceeds to determine
what the facts are in this case. The question of fact pre
sented by the allegations of discrimination and the testi
mony introduced in support thereof are the prime ques
tions in the case. This suit was originally filed in De
cember 1948. They contend that the discrimination was in
existence then and that it continues to exist now. I would
like in approaching that question to approach it from a
practical standpoint, bearing in mind all of the facts that
have been introduced in evidence here as to the locations
of the schools, the physical facilities, the enrollment in the
schools and the persons in charge of the schools. I think
you have to consider to a certain extent the personal
equation in those matters, although the personal equation
should never be considered to the extent of permitting
the discretion of the personnel in charge of a school to
violate the law. I don’t think it is necessary for the Court
to say that there has been discrimination in the schools'
[fol. 518] or has not been discrimination in years gone
by, because this Court is confronted with the problem of
today—what is the situation today—what are the facts
today? That is what the Court is confronted with now
and what the Court is concerned with.

419

Judge Lemley in deciding the DeWitt School case
pronounced words of wisdom when he said:

“ In the last analysis, this case and others like it present
problems which are more than judicial and which involve
elements of public finance, school administration, politics
and sociology. The right of Negroes to educational facili
ties substantially equal to those furnished to whites is
now almost universally recognized; but it must finally
depend for its vindication and realization upon the en
lightened public opinion of the people. The Federal courts
are not school boards; they are not prepared to take over
the administration of the public schools of the several
states; nor can they place themselves in the position of
censors over the administration of the schools by the duly
appointed and qualified officials thereof, to whose judg
ment and good faith much must be left. Neither can the
Federal courts properly endeavor to formulate or alter the
public policies of the several states, nor should they, except
in the most extreme instances, try to interfere with the
[fol. 519] mores and customs of the people in a
matter as delicate and potentially explosive as race re
lationships. In such matters the courts ought to proceed
slowly and with great care.”

I have read those words because they are words of one
of the judges of the Western District of Arkansas. I have
read them to emphasize, if I might, my appreciation of the
question that is here.

As I said, I don’t think it is necessary to pass upon
whether or not there has been discrimination in the past,
because that is water over the dam. I can’t see any useful
purpose that would be served by declaring that there has
been discrimination in the past. If there is discrimina
tion here today, then a declaratory judgment should be
entered finding discrimination today. We know—every
body knows—that in a school district the size of Fort
Smith, operating approximately twenty school plants, for
all grades, it is necessary to take the overall situation and
consider it, although the plaintiffs center their attack upon
the inadequacy from a curricula standpoint and from
physical facilities on the high schools. The board answers

420

back that the high school, Lincoln High School has a pro
gram of improvement there which while not admitting
any present discrimination or not admitting any past dis-
[fol. 520] crimination, say, in effect, that if and when that
program is carried out any question of discrimination will
be removed. And to that end testimony has been intro
duced, and I don’t think there is any dispute about the
extent of the improvement that is being made. I think
it is all appreciated. I think it is nothing more than
should be done and I think the board is not doing any
more than their constitutional duty. Take, for instance,
the testimony of Dr. Foltz on the question of sanitation
and health. He says they are woefully inadequate in
Lincoln as well, I believe he said the Junior High—the
white Junior High. Those are matters that I know the
board would like to have corrected years ago. I think any
board would, white or colored, would have liked to have
done that. But the question of finance from a practical
standpoint must be considered, not as an excuse for dis
crimination or not as a defense to discrimination, but
nevertheless from a practical standpoint you cannot re
frain from considering the financial condition.

The last building program in this district was in 1929,
except the stadium that was built at the Senior High in
1936. Naturally the ravages of time and vandalism of
students—probably that is a little stronger word than
should be used—the mischievousness of students—and
that applies to black and white alike, take their toll and
[fol. 521] destroy facilities. A ll of them are destructive
little creatures. That is just the nature of a boy or girl.
But the ravages of time and occurrences naturally create a
considerable deterioration in schools. I think the Court
would be justified in saying from the testimony that with
the inauguration of the present building program of $900,-
000.00 which has already been provided and $500,000.00
which will be provided, plus the raise in the assessments
of the property, plus the increase in the millage, no dis
crimination will exist if it has ever existed. I do not mean
by that to say that persons cannot take the curricula of
the Lincoln High, and the white High School and find on
paper some unsubstantial discrimination. I think that

421

could be done in any school. I think it could be done in
the comparison of any two objects or any two situations,
you can always find apparent inequalities in them, but
I ’m talking about substantial equality.

What have you here? Out of this $900,000.00 that was
available you have the board evidently not exercising
a discretion but in recognition of a constitutional right
trying to place on parity the school system. In their
judgment the money was allocated to various projects
and to various schools in an effort evidently to create a
parity between the two systems as well as a parity between
the schools within the system. I think the boy or girl
[fol. 522] that lives out in the suburbs is entitled to
good facilities the same as a boy that lives on Main Street,
and I think the school board is to be commended in look
ing after that segment of our school population. The
program calls for the building of certain buildings on the
Lincoln High campus. It involves certain work there.
Whether or not those facilities will be comparable or will
be substantially equal when the work is done can only be
determined by the testimony. From the testimony of the
witnesses in the case, including that produced by the
plaintiffs and that produced by the defendants, the Court
is of the opinion that there will be a substantial equality
of facilities, a substantial equality of physical facilities in
everything that is required there for a substantially equal
high school education. Take the testimony of Mr. Mott.
He made an inspection of the schools as they exist now.
His testimony cannot be disregarded. Mott is an archi
tect, a man of a great many years’ experience. I think
his very manner of testifying on the witness stand is such
to convince anybody that he is not a man of prejudices.
He isn’t a man of deep emotional impulses. The table
that he has made here has been helpful. But, as I say,
I don’t think it is necessary to bottom the decision of this
case upon that testimony, because I don’t think there
[fol. 523] is any doubt that the school board has shown
here its determination to, if a discrimination has existed,
to remove that discrimination. And I think the people
who brought this law suit had that information at the time
it was brought, while I am not criticising the bringing of

422

the law suit at all. That is a right that they have and
it is a right that is always present. The courts are al
ways open. I am not minimizing the effect of the suit
while Mr. Orr said that the filing of this suit didn’t have
any effect upon the action of the board, and I ’m sure that
Mr. Orr is absolutely correct on that, but we are all
alike, a little stimulant sometimes helps us all. I am not
criticising the bringing of this lawsuit, but there has
crept out into this case somewhat of a difference in
philosophy. You take Walter Ruffin who testified here.
I think Ruffin’s testimony discloses a spirit of cooperation
that is exceedingly commendable.

So I think and I find as a matter of fact that under the
program that is now being followed and fast coming to
completion that there is no discrimination of a substantial
nature in the school facilities, in the physical facilities,
and that no useful purpose would be served in issuing an
injunction to restrain the school board from spending
money on any school, regardless of the circumstances or
conditions until the Lincoln High had been brought up to
[fol. 524] what the plaintiffs assert to be a substantial
equality. I think it will be brought up. I think it is just
a question of time until it is, if it is not now of such
equality.

I am well aware of the fact that counsel has interro
gated witnesses and has seemed to find complaint and ob
jection to the fact that because the work is being done
there now they are being deprived and discriminated
against—because some of the rooms were torn up. Well,
I guess it would have been better if they could have done
the work during the vacation, but they couldn’t do the work
during the vacation since they didn’t have the money and
it has to be done now. It is inconvenient for a man to
paper a room or house and live in the house at the same
time and yet we do it. But those things are purely of a
temporary nature.

Now a word about the curricula. It is important and
vital. I think that Professor Greene and his staff if given
the proper cooperation of the citizens—-and I ’m not saying
that he doesn’t have it—I think he does—has the interest
of the negro students upon his heart the same as anyone

423

else. He is evidently a man of education and a man of
culture. He has a Master’s degree from Columbia Uni
versity. I was impressed with his testimony. I was im
pressed with the testimony of their Counsellor and their
[fol. 525] instructors and such members of the staff that
came here. They are evidently well qualified. They evi
dently know the situation and the needs of the students at
Lincoln High School. The degree of cooperation between the
board and those men is rather outstanding and remarkable.
Let me say further to you about the curricula. There may
be some discrepancies, but you must bear in mind the
number of students in the two systems—in the two schools.
You must bear in mind the practical situation. They say
Latin is not taught and trigonometry is not taught or of
fered. It will be time enough to raise that question when
the situation demands action. Suffice it to say, when
those situations arise the board can’t determine it from a
standpoint of discretion, they must determine it from a
standpoint of need and equality. This school is a school,
one of the three Negro High Schools in this state that is
a member of the North Central Association. That is no
little distinction. I think the board and the citizens, black
and white, are entitled to commendation. When you
consider all the high schools in the State and all of the
different segments of negro population here and yonder,
and find only three accredited high schools in the State,
and for Fort Smith to have one of them, I think it is a
matter that can’t be too lightly considered. It puts the
stamp of educational approval on it. You may say that
[fol. 526] stamp of approval does not mean anything. It
does mean a lot. The men in our State educational sys
tem are devoting their lives to the task of improving our
schools, white and negro. You do not get a school ac
credited just by desiring it. You have to meet the require
ments. I don’t think the Court ought to say that that is a
sham or that that is something that is not deserved. If
it is deserved, and it is, it is a fact that cannot be disre
garded in considering whether it is substantially equal to
the white high schools.

This brings the Court to the question of the Junior Col
lege and to the amendment to the complaint which I per

424

mitted to be filed. I don’t think the testimony shows
that the Junior College is operated by public funds, but
I ’m not going to strike the amendment. However, I find
that it is not operated by public funds and is, therefore,
not to be considered in the determination of the question
raised here.

The complaint and the amendments thereto will be dis
missed on the ground that there is no discrimination ex
isting at this time; that it is not necessary to pass upon
past discriminations; that no useful purpose would be
served by the issuance of an injunction enjoining the
board to comply with the law; that the board is making
a bona fide effort and attempt within the funds available,
and that will in fact remove any discrimination if it has
[fol. 527] existed in the past; and that the physical facil
ities and curricula, if not now, will upon the completion
of this program be substantially equal.

The attorneys for the defendants will prepare and sub
mit findings of fact and conclusions of law in accordance
with what I have said, except to elaborate more upon some
of the technical matters. When those findings of fact and
conclusions of law are made, judgment of the court will be
entered thereon in accordance therewith.

Counsel for plaintiffs, if you desire—you don’t have to
of course, as you know—may submit proposed findings of
fact and conclusions of law so that I could act upon them.
But it is not necessary that you do so to preserve your
record.

[fol. 528] (Findings of Fact and Conclusions
of Law.)

Having heard the evidence and having considered the ad
missions made by the pleadings and the admissions made
in open court by the parties, the Court finds the facts and
states the conclusions of law as follows:

425

Findings of Fact

1. A ll of the Plaintiffs are citizens and residents of the
Special School District of Fort Smith, Arkansas and are
duly enrolled students either in the elementary schools or
the high school maintained and operated by said District
for negro children.

2. The Fort Smith Junior College is supported and
maintained from the tuition and fees paid by the students
enrolled therein, and not from public tax funds.

3. The negro population of the Special School District
of Fort Smith, Arkansas is less than one-tenth of the total
population of the District, and the enrollment in the negro
schools of the District is less than one-tenth of the aggre
gate enrollment in all schools of the District.

[fol. 529] 4. The Defendant School District operates 17
elementary schools, 3 of which are operated exclusively for
negro children and 14 of which are operated exclusively
for white children. The Defendant School District also op
erates separate high schools for negro and white children.
The high school for negro children is operated as one unit,
known as Lincoln High School. The high school for white
children is operated as two units, known respectively as
Junior High School and Senior High School. In the Junior
High School instruction is given in the three lower high
school grades, the 7th, 8th and 9th. In the Senior High
School instruction is given in the three upper high school
grades, the 10th, 11th and 12th. The present enrollment at
Lincoln High School is 328 students, 139 of whom are en
rolled in the three higher grades, the 10th, 11th and 12th.
The present enrollment at Junior High School is 1573.
The present enrollment at Senior High School is 1126. The
operation of Lincoln High School as a single unit is educa
tionally sound and is the standard method of administra
tion in high schools with enrollments no larger than that
at the Lincoln School.

5. During the period between 1928 and 1948 the Defend
ant School District was unable for the lack of available
revenue to supply needed improvements in the way of
buildings and other school facilities, and during said period,

426

without fault of the Defendant Directors or their prede
cessors, the physical facilities of the District, those pro
vided for white children as well as those provided for negro
children, deteriorated substantially.

6. Beginning in the year 1946 and continuing until early
1948 the Board of Directors of the Defendant District for
mulated plans for the improvement of the District’s phys
ical facilities. Such plans included new buildings and re
pairs to existing buildings to serve both the negro and
white school systems. Said plans took definite form in
early 1948 when a larger revenue became available and a
bond issue was voted by the electorate of the District.

[fol. 530] 7. From the proceeds of the bond issue and
other monies which became available for buildings and re
pairs the School Board allocated more than one-fourth of
the whole to the negro schools. As a result of such alloca
tion there has now been practically completed and ready
for occupancy a new negro elementary school to take the
place of the negro elementary school known as Howard
School. This building is strictly modern in construction
and equipment. It has no equal among the white elemen
tary schools of Fort Smith now in use and has no superior
among the elementary schools of the State of Arkansas,
white or negro, and is fully adequate in size to house the
present negro elementary school enrollment and provide
for any prospective increase for many years to come. All
of the equipment in this building is new. The major por
tion of it has been purchased, paid for and delivered, and
all of the rest is on order. The present plan is that said
building will be fully occupied within thirty days.

8. In addition to said amounts, additional funds have
been allocated and are being expended for two additional-
buildings at Lincoln High School. One of these buildings
is now complete and is fully and adequately equipped to
house the Home Economics Department of Lincoln High
School. Its equipment is new and modern, and it is of
sufficient size to adequately house the Home Economics De
partment. It is now in use by this department. It is equal
in every respect to the Home Economics Departments of
the Junior and Senior High Schools for whites.

427

The other building was designed for and is intended to
house the industrial arts department, including metal arts,
woodwork, machine shops and auto mechanics. This build
ing is substantially completed and is modern in design and
adequate in every respect. Much of the equipment for this
building is on hand and the remainder is on order. It is
contemplated that the building will be occupied, fully
equipped, in a maximum of sixty days. This department
of Lincoln High School will be equal to and in many re-
[fol. 531] spects superior to the industrial arts depart
ment maintained at the Senior High School for whites.

Both of these buildings are of brick construction.

9. Funds have been allocated for additions to Lincoln
High School to provide adequate showers and dressing
rooms for the use of the students in connection with the
gymnasium, to replace the old showers now in use, and to
provide a powder room for use of the female teachers. A
contract has been let for this work under the supervision
of a licensed architect, and said work is progressing steadily
to completion. With this installation and with the addi
tional toilet facilities already available in Lincoln High
School, the toilet, shower and sanitary conditions at Lin
coln High School will be above the average in the School
District, and fully as adequate as those provided in the
Junior and Senior High Schools for whites.

10. To replace the old cafeteria facilities at Howard
School, a substantial frame building has been purchased
and included in the campus of Howard School. This cam
pus consists of a city block and lies adjacent to the city
block upon which is located the Lincoln High School. This
cafeteria building is designed to furnish cafeteria facilities
for both Howard School and Lincoln High School. Much
of the cafeteria equipment is now on hand ready for in
stallation, and the remainder on order. It is the plan of the
directors that this cafeteria will be in operation within a
maximum of sixty days. When completed it will be ade
quate and modern in every respect, and equal to the facil
ities provided at the Junior and Senior High Schools for
whites.

428

11. During 1949 the Directors of the School District pro
posed an additional bond issue which was authorized at the
October, 1949, school election. Funds from this bond issue
will be available early in 1950 and will be used for the pur
pose of providing lighting, heating and general repairs to
all of the buildings in the District, both white and colored,
[fol. 532] where needed. This repair work will be com
pleted in accordance with a survey made by competent
architects and contractors, and includes an adequate allo
cation for such work at Lincoln High School and at Dunbar
and Washington negro elementary schools.

12. The improvements and additions to the school
system are the result of the planning on the part
of the Board of Directors of the Defendant District be
ginning in 1946, and have progressed steadily since that
time. A ll of the work on the unfinished projects is going
forward steadily and utmost good faith is evident on the
part of the Directors of the Defendant District to complete
all of the contemplated repairs and additions not now
complete.

13. The allocation of monies to the schools operated for
negro children was made by the Directors in good faith and
with the intention of preserving a condition of substantial
equality between the negro and white schools.

14. The courses of study provided for the negro ele
mentary schools are identical with the courses provided
for the white elementary schools of the Defendant District.

15. The Lincoln High School in which the standard six
high school grades are taught affords the students therein
enrolled substantially the same educational advantages
enjoyed by the white students enrolled in the Junior and
Senior High Schools. Both the Lincoln High School and
the Senior High School enjoy equal standing in the North
Central Association of colleges and Secondary Schools,
and students from either school can enroll in any member
college or university of said North Central Association
without any scholastic deficiency.

16. The Physical Education Department of the Lincoln
High School is comprehensive in its scope, both for male

429

and female students. A woman teacher is provided for
the girls physical education classes and a man teacher is
provided for the boys classes. The equipment for these
classes is left largely to the respective instructors, and all
requisitions for such equipment for the physical education
department have been promptly and fully filled by the
Board of Directors. The uncontradicted evidence shows
[fol. 533] the Defendants able and willing to furnish ade
quate athletic equipment for the use of the students of
Lincoln High School upon request and requisition of the
principal and faculty of that school.

17. The faculty members of the negro elementary and
high schools in the Defendant District are on a par with
the faculty members of the white elementary and high
schools of the District with respect to educational train
ing and qualifications, experience and salaries paid.

18. Considered as a whole the buildings and other phys
ical facilities provided for the negro school children of
the Defendant District are not inferior to the buildings
and other physical facilities provided for the white children
of the District.

19. The buildings and other physical facilities at the
Lincoln High School, upon the completion of the buildings
and new installations now almost ready for occupancy and
use, will be superior to the buildings and appurtenant
physical facilities at the Junior High School and will be
on a substantial equality with the combined Junior and
Senior High School buildings and appurtenant physical
facilities.

20. The courses of study made available to the students
of the Lincoln High School are substantially equal to the
courses of study made available to the students of the
Junior and Senior High Schools.

21. There is no discrimination, existing or imminent,
against the children of the negro schools of the Defendant
District in the matter of curriculum or courses of study.

22. There is no discrimination, existing or imminent,
against the children of the negro schools of the Defendant

430

District in the matter of buildings and appurtenant physical
facilities.

23. There is not in existence or imminent any policy,
custom or usage in the Special School District of Fort
Smith, Arkansas under which the negro school children
of the District are discriminated against in favor of the
white children of the District.

[fol. 534] Conclusions of Law

1. Under the provisions of the Fourteenth xAmendment
to the Constitution of the United States the Defendants
are prohibited from discriminating against the negro chil
dren of the Defendant School District in the matter of
providing school buildings and appurtenant physical
facilities and curriculum or courses of study.

2. Under both Federal and State law it is the duty of
the Defendants to provide buildings and appurtenant phys
ical facilities and curriculum or courses of study for the
negro school children of the District which are substan
tially equal to the buildings and appurtenant physical
facilities and curriculum or courses of study provided for
the [chite] school children of the District.

3. With reference to the Fort Smith Junior College
the Plaintiffs have been denied no rights or privileges
guaranteed to them by the Federal or State Constitutions
or by Federal or State laws.

4. The office of injunction is to enforce a right which
is presently being denied, or to prohibit the continuance
of a presently existing wrong, or to prevent the occurrence
of an imminent wrong. The office of a declaratory judg
ment is limited to the remedying of a presently existing or
impending evil.

5. The Plaintiffs have failed to sustain the allegations
of their complaint.

6. A decree should be entered dismissing the complaint
for want of equity.

431

Filed November 19, 1949, in United States District Court,
Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division.

[fol. 535] (Notice of Appeals to the Circuit Court
of Appeals Eighth Circuit.)

Notice is hereby given, that Charles L. Brown, Infant
age 12 years by his Step-father and next friend, Arthur
Bouser; Allen Black Jr, Infant age 15, by his father and
next friend Allen Black, Sr; Ruth Neioma Byrd Infant,
age 16 by her father and next friend Otto Byrd; Earnie
Randolph Chaney Jr, Infant aged 14, by his father and
next friend, Earnie Chaney, Sr; Henrene Davis, infant age
9, by her father and next friend, Thomas Davis; Sherley E.
Edwards, Infant age 15, by her father and next friend,
Percy Edwards; Charlie Mae Hartgroves, Infant age 9, by
her father and next friend, Charlie C. Hartgroves; Robert
Lee Henry, Infant age 8, by his father and next friend
Rev. Ernest A. Henry; Elmer Perry, Jr, Infant age 16, by
his father and next friend Elmer Perry Sr; John T. Smith,
Infant age 8 years, by his father and next friend Calvin
W. Smith; Shirley Marie Wesley, Infant age 11, by her
father and next friend, Alford Wesley, Samuel R. Williams,
Infant age 14, by his father and next friend, Emanuel
Williams all of Fort Smith, Arkansas on behalf of them-
[fol. 536] selves and others similarly situated as Plain
tiffs in the said cause and hereinabove named, do hereby
appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth (8th)
Circuit, from the final judgment based upon the Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law, entered in this action on
November 19th, 1949.

Filed December 15, 1949, Ft. Smith, Arkansas, Division,
Western District of Arkansas United States District Court.

432

[fol. 537] CERTIFICATE

I, Ben Mosley, Court Reporter for the United States
District Court, Western District of Arkansas, do certify
the foregoing 361 pages contain a true and correct transcript
of the testimony introduced in the case of Charles L. Brown,
Infant, by his Stepfather and next friend, Arthur Bouser,
et al., plaintiffs, v. J. W. Ramsey, Superintendent of
School, et al., defendants, the same being Civil Action No.
798, tried on November 9, 10 and 11, 1949.

This February 16, 1950.
Ben Mosley

Court Reporter.

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Brown v. Ramsey Abstract of Record

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