Boykins v. Fairfield Board of Education Multilith Record

    MULTILITH RECORD

IN THEUNITED STATES
COURT OF APPEALSFOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT

No. 25114

GEORGE ROBERT BOYKINS, ET AL,

A p p e l l a n t s

v e r s u s

FAIRFIELD, ALABAMA BOARD OF EDUCATION, ET AL,

Appe Uses,

Appeal from the United States District Court 
for the Northern District of Alabama.



I N D E X
Page No-

Plaintiffs' Objections To Defendants' Report
On Choice Period, Dated June 13, 1967 And
Motion For Further Relief--------------------  1

Memorandum Of Motions------------     5

Order On Motions -------- ------- -------------- - 10
Motion For Temporary Restraining Order — —  11

Notice Of Appeal---- *---------- --------------  13

Bond For Costs On Appeal------- -------------  14

Designation Of Record On Appeal------------- 16

Clerk's Certificate--- -------------- ---------  17

Transcript Of Proceedings -------------------- 18

George Virgil N u n n ---- ---- ------ ------ 18

James Woofter------------------------- -—  108
Janie Mae Jordan -------------------------  137

Henry H. Caldwell, Jr. 145



1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA

SOUTHERN DIVISION

GEORGE ROBERT BOYKINS X
as next friend of Tywanna 
Faye Boykins, et al X

PLAINTIFFS X
v s . X

FAIRFIELD BOARD OF EDUCATION \ 
et al

X
DEFENDANTS

civil action No. 65-499 

(Filed: June 27, 1967)

PLAINTIFFS' OBJECTIONS TO 
DEFENDANTS' REPORT ON CHOICE 
PERIOD, DATED JUNE 13, 1967 
AND MOTION FOR FURTHER RELIEF

Defendant, G. Virgil Nunn, Superintendent of the de­

fendant school district, by letter of June 13, 1967 addressed 

to this Court, enclosed a copy of defendants' report on 
choice period, pursuant to order of this Court of April 17, 
1967. Plaintiffs' herewith submit their objections to 

defendants' aforesaid report:
1. Contrary to this Court's Decree, defendants' 

report does not show percentage of pupils actually trans­

ferred or assigned from segregated grades to schools 

attended predominantly by pupils of a race other than 

the race of the applicant, for attendance during the 
1966-67 school year, with comparable data for the 1965-66 

school year.



2

2. The report on its face reveals, contrary to this 

Court's Decree, that not every student in the defendant 

school district exercised a free choice of schools,

3. Defendants' report shows that there are 

presently seven totally segregated schools in the defendant 
school district. The following schools have a totally 
white enrollment;

Glen Oaks Elementary School, Forest 
Hills Elementary School

the following schools have a totally Negro enrollment:

Robinson Elementary School, Englewood 
Elementary School, Interurban Heights 
Junior High School and Fairfield 
Industrial High School,

The following schools have both Negro and White pupils

Donald Elementary School, Fairfield 
Junior High School, and Fairfield 
High School.

Although in no school did all pupils exercise choice, 

defendants' report reveals that in all of the aforementioned 

seven segregated schools, no choice form was disapproved; 

in the three schools with desegregated enrollments, no 

choice form of a white student was disapproved but a total 
of 53 choice forms of Negro students were disapproved 

allegedly for various reasons out of a total number of 308 

choice forms returned by Negro students. In other words, 

approximately 17% of the choice forms filled out by Negroes 
were disapproved, while not a single choice form filled



3

out by a white student was disapproved.

4. Defendants' report assigns five grounds for dis­

approving the choice forms of various Negro students (non­

resident, poor grades, discipline, late filing choice 

form, choice form not signed). Plaintiffs allege, on in­

formation and belief, that these grounds have either not 

been applied to the choice forms of white students or, if 

applied, these grounds have never been used as a basis for 

rejecting the choice form of a white student. In addition, 
none of the grounds assigned by defendants for disapproving 

choice forms is sanctioned by this Court's Decree, In fact, 

one ground used by the defendants in disapproving the choice 

forms of Negroes is in direct conflict with this Court's 

Decree:
Defendants have disapproved one choice form of a 

Negro pupil at Donald Elementary School because that pupil 

did not sign the choice form; this Court's Decree speci­

fically provides that a choice may be made independent of 

a choice form, by submission of any other writing which 

contains information sufficient to identify the student 
and would indicate that he has made a choice of school.

Thus, it follows, a fortiori that a choice form only lacking 

a signature still sufficiently identifies the pupil for the 

purposes of identifying the student and his choice of

school.



4

Defendant G. Virgil Nunn, allegedly refused to grant 

choices to Negro students who live out of the city limits 

of Fairfield, Alabama, while all white persons choices 

were granted. Plaintiffs alleged, on information and be­

lief, that white students that lived out side the city 

limits have been granted their choice in the Fairfield 

Public Schools.

WHEREFORE, plaintiffs pray that the court enter an 

order approving the choice forms of all students, Negro 

and White, irrespective of whether defendants have approved 

said forms.
Respectfully submitted,

s/ Demetrius C. Newton

Demetrius C. Newton 
408 North 17th Street 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Jack Greenberg 
James M» Nabrit, III 
Norman C , Amaker 
Conrad K. Harper 
10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 1001.9
Attorneys for Plaintiffs

STATE OF ALABAMA 

JEFFERSON COUNTY

The foregoing motion having been presented to me, the 
same is continued for hearing of the 14th day of July, 1967 

at 1:30 P.M. at Birmingham, Alabama, and the United States 

Marshal is instructed to serve a copy of this petition and



5

order on the Board of Education of Fairfield, Alabama and 

G„ virgil Nunn, Superintendent of the Board of Education 

of Fairfield, Alabama, notifying them of this hearing

dated this 27th day of June, 1967.
s/ H. H. Grooms 
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE 

,.»oOo.»»

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FORALABAMA

CIVIL ACTION 

NO. 65-499

(Filed: July 18, 
1967)

)
FAIRFIELD BOARD OF EDUCATION, )
et al., )

Defendants )

MEMORANDUM OF MOTIONS
This case came on for further hearing upon the plain­

tiffs' objections to defendants’ report on choice period, 

dated June 13, 1967 and motion for further relief, and 
upon the motion of the United States for sundry relief, in- 

cluding the closing of the Englewood Elementary School.

THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF 
SOUTHERN DIVISION

GEORGE ROBERT BOYKINS, as next )
friend of Tywanna Faye Boykins, )
et al., )

)
Plaintiffs )

)
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, by )
NICHOLAS deB. KATZENBACH, )
Attorney General of the )
United States, )

Plaintiff-Intervener )
)



6

The defendants have approved 97 applications of 

Negro children to attend the formerly white Donald Elemen­

tary School; 65 to attend the formerly white Fairfield 

High School; and 108 to attend the formerly white Fairfield 
Junior High School. No white students have chosen to 

attend Fairfield Industrial High School, Interurban Heights 
Junior High School, Robinson Elementary School, or the 

Englewood Elementary School. No Negro students have chosen 

to attend Forest Hills Elementary School or Glen Oaks 
Elementary School.

Beginning in September 1967, based upon choice forms 
received, there will be 97 Negroes and 230 whites at the 

Donald Elementary School, 65 Negroes and 391 whites at 

Fairfield High School, 108 Negroes and 455 whites at Fair- 
field Junior High School.

Out of a total school enrollment of 3850, 3245 choice 

forms have been received. Fifty-three applications have 
been denied. Of those denied 14 were denied for non­

residency, 28 for poor grades, 6 for discipline, 4 for 

late filing of the choice form, and 1 for choice form not 
signed.

Englewood Elementary School has grades from one through 
eight. No other elementary school in the Fairfield system 

has in excess of grades one through six. Last year there 
was an attendance of 121 students at Englewood in the



7

eight grades. So far only 41 choice forms have been re­

ceived, However, the defendants expect as many as 121 to 

appear for enrollment at the school when the term begins 

in September, There are seven teachers at Englewood, The 

city has an investment of $104,145.76 in buildings, and 

$16,574.74 in equipment. The total investment, including 

lands, is $125, 953.92, The Englewood Elementary School 

was built approximately twenty-five years ago. It is con­

siderably below the standards. Dr. James Woofter of the 
Office of Education in the Department of Health, Education 

and Welfare rates the school at 21,6, Pictures have been 

exhibited to the Court of the exterior as well as the 

interior of the school building. From an examination of 
these pictures and from the evidence, it appears to the 
Court that many of the defects complained of result from 
poor housekeeping. It is estimated that to bring the school 

to above average would cost approximately $15,000.00. It 
is proposed to replace broken windows and to do the needful 

and to refurbish the plant temporarily for the opening 
of the school. However, this school is located in a pro­
posed urban renewal area of many substandard homes, and it 

is likely that the school will be closed entirely and 

demolished within the next two or three years. The Board 
of Education has a substantial investment in the school 

and to vacate the school at this time would likely mean 
that it would probably be destroyed by pillage and vandalism.



8

It may be that if no more than 41 students show up for the 

September session that the school should be closed. On 

the other hand, if the number anticipated by the Board 
appears for admission a different picture would be 

presented. The pupil-teacher ratio is one to seventeen 
at Englewood, and one to twenty-seven at Donald.

The Court’s corrected decree of April 17, 1967, pro­

vides in article II, section (1), "except with the approval 

of court in extraordinary circumstnaces, no choice shall 

be denied for any reason other than overcrowding," One 

of the objects of faculty desegregation is to raise the 

teaching standards in the schools. If a pupil is to be 

denied access to a formerly white school where the majority 

of the teachers are white because of his or her grades, 

the pupil will be denied the opportunity to improve such 

grades by having better teachers for instructional purposes, 
it being generally accepted that the white teachers as a 
whole are better qualified than colored teachers.

In the letter of May 1, 1967, forwarding choice forms 

it was stated that the forms "should be completed and re­

turned by June 1, 1 9 6 7... No one may require you to re­
turn your choice form before June 1 and no preference is 

given for returning the choice form early." Four choice 

forms were rejected because they were submitted on June 1.

In view of the quoted statements contained in the letter



9

of May 1, 1967, the Court is of the opinion that these 

pupils had through June 1 to submit the choice forms.

One choice form was not signed and had only the 

pupil's name and an X by the school the pupil desired to 

attend.
Fourteen students were denied admission because they 

were non-residents. The Court is not aware of any law that 
requires the Fairfield School System to accept non-resident 

students, and the evidence does not reveal that these non­

residents were rejected because of their race.
The motions will be granted to the extent indicated 

in the decree. Otherwise, they will be denied.
Only six students have chosen to enter the seventh 

grade and only two the eighth grade at Englewood Elementary 

School. If these two grades are closed out, then this 
school will have six grades as all the other elementary 

schools in the system have, and the closing of these grades 

should provide additional special purpose space. The 
release of any teacher will be governed by the provisions 

of article VIII, section (b), of the corrected decree,
Done and Ordered, this the 18th day of July, 1967.

(Seal) s/ H. H. Grooms
A TRUE COPY United States District Judge
WILLIAM E. DAVIS, CLERK 
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA,
BY; s/ Mary L. Tortorici 

DEPUTY CLERK
• « „ O 0 O *  <s e



10

ORDER ON MOTIONS

(Number and title omitted) (Filed: July 18, 1967)

Pursuant to the Memorandum filed herewith;

It is ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED as follows:

1. That the defendants accept the applications of 

all 28 pupils whose choices have been denied because of 

poor grades. The Court does not consider the poor grades 

as constituting "extraordinary circumstances,"

2. The defendants will accept the choice forms of 

the four students whose choices were received on June 1, 

1967,
3, The defendants will permit Reginald L, Brooks

to file a new choice form within ten days from the date of 

this order,
4, The defendants will eliminate grades seven and 

eight at Englewood Elementary School and will permit the 

students in those grades who have elected to attend that 

school to file new choice forms within ten days from the 

date of this order.
It is further ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that the 

plaintiffs be denied relief with respect to the fourteen 

non-resident applicants, and the six applicants who have 

been denied their choices because of disciplinary problems,

The government's motion to close the Englewood Ele­

mentary School is continued pending the opening of the new



11

school terra in September.
Done and Ordered, this the 18th day of July, 1967.

s/ H. H. Grooms
United States District Judge

(Seal)
A TRUE COPY
WILLIAM E . DAVIS, CLERK 
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 
BY: s/ Mary L. Tortorici

"d e p u t y CLERK
e . . OOO . . .

MOTION FOR TEMPORARY 
RESTRAINING ORDER

(Number and title omitted) (Filed: July 31, 1967)

Plaintiff moves this Court for a temporary restrain­

ing order, without notice, restraining defendants and each 

of them, their agents, servants, employees and successors 

from:
1. Discharging or threatening to discharge Mrs. 

Laquita S. Bell and two other teachers from the Fairfield 
School System, (see record of hearing in this case Made 

July 15, 17, 1967).
Instituting any proceedings to discharge, or further 

threatening to discharge any members of the class which 

plaintiff represent and
2. Discharging or threatening to discharge plaintiff 

and members of her class from the school system contrary to



12

the order of this court.

The plaintiff and other school teachers similarly 

situated be restored to duty and pay. That the defendants 

be required to restore these teachers to duty with back pay 
if due immediately.

Further unless this court acts immediately to restore 
plaintiff to duty and other teachers similarly situated 

and grant the temporary restraining order requested ir- 

repable injury will result to plaintiff and members of her 
class.

Defendants have until this day refused to file with 

this court and the attorney of record a report of teacher's 
dismissal as demanded by this court's decree and his HONOR'S 
request made in open court on July 17, 1967.

Therefore a temporary restraining order is required 
in order to preserve the rights of this plaintiff and 

other similarly situated pending the final resolution of 

the issues more fully raised by the complaint of the plain­
tiff.

Respectfully submitted,

s/ Demetrius C. Newton 
Demetrius C. Newton 
408 North 17th Street 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Norman C, Amaker 
Jack Greenberg 
10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019

Attorneys for the Plaintiff



13

This motion for a temporary restraining order having 

been presented to me and the contents noted the motion is 

hereby continued this 31st day of July, 1967 to September 

15, 1967 at 1:30 pm.
s/ H. H. Grooms 
United States District Judge 

...oOo.® «
NOTICE OF APPEAL

(Number and title omitted) (Filed: August 1, 1967)

Notice is hereby given that George Robert Boykins, 

one of the plaintiffs herein, hereby appeals to the United 

States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit from an order 

of the said United States District Court denying in part 

plaintiffs motion. Said order of the District Court being 
dated July 18, 1967 and from an order of the United States 

District Court dated July 31, 1967 failing to grant plain­
tiffs a temporary restraining Order on teacher's dismissal 

and setting the matter for hearing on September 15,- 1967.
DATED: August 1, 1967

s/ Demetrius C. Newton 
DEMETRIUS C. NEWTON 
408 North 17th Street 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

NORMAN C. AMAKER 
JACK GREENBERG 
10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019
Attorneys For Plaintiffs

...oOo..*



14

BOND FOR COSTS ON APPEAL

(Number and title omitted) (Filed: August 1, 1967)

KNOW ALL MEN BY THESE PRESENTS, That we, George 

Robert Boykins, as principal, and Demetrius C. Newton 

and Beatryce T. Newton, as sureties, are held and firmly 
bound unto The Fairfield Board of Education, and g „

Virgil Nunn, individually and in his capacity as Superin­

tendent of the Fairfield Board of Education, in the full 
and just sum of Two Hundred Fifty and No/100 ($250.00) 

Dollars to be paid to the said Defendants, their successors, 

administrators and assigns; to which payment well and truly 

to be made, we bind ourselves, our successors, assigns heirs 
executors and administrators, jointly and severally by 
these presents.

Sealed with our seals and dated this the 1st day of 
August, 1967.

Whereas, on the 18th day of July, 1967, in an action 
pending before the United States District Court for the 

Northern District of Alabama, Southern Division, between 

George Robert Boykins, et al, the Fairfield, and G. Virgil 

Nunn, individually and in his capacity as Superintendent 
of the Fairfield Board of Education. An order was made 

in denying plaintiffs in part the relief sought by their 

motion and an order dated July 31, 1967 denying plaintiffs 

a temporary restraining order and setting the matter for



15

September 15, 1967. George Robert Boykins, et al having 

field notice of appeal from the courts order of July 18,

1967 and July 31, 1967 to the United States Court of 

Appeals for the Fifth Circuit.
Now, therefore, the condition of this obligation is 

such, that if the said George Robert Boykins shall prose­

cute this appeal to effect and shall pay costs if the 

appeal is dismissed or the judgement affirmed, or such costs 

as the said Court of Appeals may award against the said 
George Robert Boykins, if the judgment is modified, then 

this obligation be void; otherwise to remain in full force 

and effect.
s/ George Robert Boykins 

GEORGE ROBERT BOYKINS 
s/ Demetrius C. Newton 

DEMETRIUS C. NEWTON 
s/ Beatryce T. Newton 

BEATRYCE T. NEWTON

Personally appeared before me George Robert Boykins, 

Demetrius C. Newton and Beatryce T. Newton, who are 

principal and sureties in the above-styled bond, who 

hereby certify to me that they understand the nature of 

this bond and that they are fully capable of meeting the 

financial penalty of said bond, that the above signatures
are genuine, and that they have signed said bond voluntarily 
and without coercion of any kind. s/ Agnes N. Studemise NOTARY PUBLIC

«.. O0O.. o



16

DESIGNATION OF RECORD 
ON APPEAL

(Number and title omitted) (Filed: August 11, 1967)

The plaintiffs in the above styled cause designates 
the following items to be transmitted to the United States 
Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit,

Plaintiffs objections to defendants report 
on choice period,

Plaintiffs motion for temporary restraining 
order.

All of plaintiffs exhibits in the Court hearing 
of July 14th and 17th, 1967

The Court order and findings of fact in the
hearing of July 14th and 17th, 1967.

The Court order on the motion for a temporary
restraining order.

Respectfully submitted,
s/ Demetrius C, Newton

Demetrius C. Newton 
Attorney for Plaintiffs

.,.oOo,..



17

CLERK'S CERTIFICATE 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA In-
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA \

I, WILLIAM E . DAVIS, Clerk of the United States 

District Court for the Northern District of Alabama do 

hereby certify that the foregoing pages numbered from one 
(1) to sixteen (16), both inclusive, comprise the original 

pleadings in this action and are herewith attached as a 

full, true and correct transcript of the record on appeal 
in the Matter of GEORGE ROBERT BOYKINS as next friend of 

Tywanna Faye Boykins, ET AL., Appellant, vs. FAIRFIELD 

BOARD OF EDUCATION, ET AL., Appellees, Civil Action No. 

65-499, Southern Division, as fully as the same appears 
of record and on file in my office.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed 
my name and affixed the seal of said 
Court at Birmingham, Alabama, in said 

District, on this the 14th day of 

August, 1967.
s/ William E. Davis 

WILLIAM E. DAVIS, CLERK 
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT.

(Seal)

...oOo...



18

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 
(Number and title omitted)

Birmingham, Alabama,
July 14, 1967 

HON„ H0 Ho GROOMS, JUDGE

MESSRSo DEMETRIUS C. NEWTON 
AND ORZELL BILLINGSLEY, JR,,

MR. .MAURICE F. BISHOP

MR. BARRY WEINBERG, U.S, 
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

U) PROCEEDINGS

(WHEREUPON, attorneys on both sides and the inter-
venor addressed the Court, and the following proceedings
were had and done:)

MR. NEWTON:

I would like to call Mr. Nunn.

EVIDENCE ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF 

GEORGE VIRGIL NUNN

called as a witness, being first duly sworn, was examined 
and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NEWTON:

Q You are Mr. George Virgil Nunn, superintendent
of the Fairfield Public Schools?

BEFORE:

APPEARING FOR THE 
PLAINTIFFS;

APPEARING FOR THE 
DEFENDANTS s

APPEARING FOR THE 
INTERVENOR:



19

A Yes.
Q Mr. Nunn, I would like to show you a letter, dated 

May 1, 1967, which purports to bear your signature, and I 

would like to ask if you are familiar with that letter 

and if that, in fact, is your signature?

A Yes, it is.
Q Mr. Nunn, I would like to call your attention to

paragraph three, the last sentence, "No one may require 

you to return your choice form before June (3) 1 and no 

preference is given for returning the choice form early,"

Is that statement given?
A That statement was written by the Court, and I put

it in the letter. Yes.

MRo NEWTON:
We would like to offer this as plaintiff's exhibit. 

(.Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1 received in evidence.)
Q Now* Mr. Nunn, I would like to show you a letter,

dated June 9, 1967, which purports to bear your signature, 

and ask you if, in fact, that is your signature, sir?

A Yes, that is my signature.
Q Now —  and I believe you said, in this letter, you

were disapproving that application because it was submitted 

to you on June 1st, is that correct?

A yes,
Q Now, I would like to ask you, Mr. Nunn, do you, on



20

the one hand, send parents a letter stating that no one 

may require you to return your choice form before June 1st, 

and, at the very same time, deny choice because it was 
brought to you on June 1st?
(4) MR. BISHOP:

We object to that.
THE COURT:

What is that?
MR. NEWTON:

The first letter, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1, states 

specifically that no choice form can be required to be re­
turned before June 1st.

The second letter, that I just gave Mr. Bishop, denies 
the child's choice because the application was not sub­

mitted during the month of May, in accordance with that 
letter.

THE COURT:

"No one may require you to return your choice form 
before June 1."

MR. NEWTON:

Yes, sir.
THE COURT:

and no preference is given for returning the 
choice form early."



21

MR, NEWTON:
This letter, which we would like to offer in evi­

dence as "Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2," denies this applica­

tion because it was brought on June 1st, according to the 

letter.

THE WITNESS:
Would you like for me to answer your question, Mr, 

Newton?
MR. NEWTON:

Yes,sir.

THE WITNESS:
You stated before this Court, during the first week 

in June, that May 31st was the cut-off date for receiving 

applications, Mr. (5) Newton, and if May 31st was the cut­
off date, then the one filed on June 1st was late.
Q But in your letter to the parents you told them they

had until June 1st, is that right?
A That no preference would be given after June 1st.

I believe that is what the Court said, what the Court 

order said.
Q Mr. Nunn, I show you this letter (indicating), which

purports to bear your signature, dated June 2, 1967, and 

ask you if that is, in fact, you signature and if you sent 

that letter?
A Yes.



22

MR. BISHOP:

If you have a series of letters -- 
MR. NEWTON:

I don't have but so many.
MR. BISHOP:

We have a different set of letters, and we would 
be glad to offer them all.
MR. NEWTON:

We would like to offer this as "Plaintiffs' Exhibit
3. "

THE WITNESS :

Are you going to give me an opportunity to comment 
on it, sir?

MR. NEWTON:

Yes, sir,

Q I notice you say in this letter that student would
have to repeat the fourth grade. Are you aware of the 
fact that this student was promoted to the (6) fifth 
grade?

A I am not. Her permanent record indicates she has

not passed sufficient work to pass her to the next grade. 

Q But you don't know if she was promoted to the fifth 
grade?

A i am not familiar with her on the report card.

Q Does a student have the right to rely on a report



23

card, duly issued by the school, as to promotion or lack 
of promotion?

A Certainly.

Q All right. Now, Mr. Nunn, have you answered choice 

forms made by students who live in the Birmingham area 
who applied to Negro schools in Fairfield?

Have you answered those letters?

A All that have been screened by the school principal 

and processed to my office, I have answered them.
Q You don't say that you have acted on all choice 
forms that were sent?
A I didn't say that.

Q Just those that the principal has turned over to
your office?
(7) A Yes.

Q Then it is possible that other parents will be 
getting letters in the future concerning choices made 

during the choice period?

A i would say that there is very little possibility 
any other letters would be sent out.

Q Have you ignored any?

A Not any that were brought to my attention.

Q Let's say that letters where they have made choices
outside the city limits and have sent those choice forms 
in and have not heard from them at all, where do they stand?



24

A I am assuming they are going to be accepted, if the
principal has not referred them to my office.

Q Have you left it up to the principal to determine 

whether or not the student would be accepted?

A They screen the choice forms, and any in question
would be sent to me for decision.

Q Those principals who were to screen the choice forms, 

were they to screen the choice forms where they were made 
to that school?

A Yes.

Q Now, that meant that all choice forms to be (8)

screened at previously all-white schools were screened by 
all white people?

A That is true, and previously all-Negro schools were 
screened by Negro principals.

Q Did you have any working agreement at that time with
the Birmingham Board of Education in regard to whites and 
Negroes who have attended Fairfield Public Schools?

A We have never had a working agreement concerning 

white students. We have an agreement concerning students 

that live in the two areas. One, we commonly refer to as 
the Vinesville section.

We have a map here (indicating), The students who 
live in the Birmingham and Vinesville area --



25

THE COURT:

Vinesville is in the city limits of Birmingham?
A Yes, sir.

Now, this is generally the Vinesville area, right 

here (indicating), Judge. And this (indicating) is the 
Fairfield Industrial High School, presently grades 10 
through 12 —  grades 9 through 12.

This (indicating) was Robinson Elementary School, 

which, at that time, was grades 1 through 8. Since that 

time, we have constructed a new (9) general high school, 
where we have grades 7, 8, and 9.

And the agreement with Birmingham was that these 
children could attend these schools, because they were 

so much closer to them than to have to go to Ensley for

elementary school-— this was in the fifties-- , or this

Parker High School, which was the high school. And that 

is the only agreement we had with Birmingham,,
This (indicating) represents Englewood High School, 

and there was a considerable amount of Negroes living 
in this general area. They were in a stones-throw of 

this school. Rather than children walking three or four 
miles to Ensley to attend this school, the Fairfield Board 

of Education consented to take these children for Englewood 
school and not for any other school.

These children who have applied to Donald Elementary



26

School walk right past the Charles Brown School, which 

is in the City of Birmingham, and, when they are applying 
to come to a Birmingham school -- 
MR. BISHOP:

Mark that with an "X," please.

(10) Q What about the students that live in this same 
area who are in junior high school?

A They are Grades 7 and 8.

Q What about Grade 9?
A They can go to Ensley.

Q There are also white folks that live in the area of

the hospital, in the area of the Lloyd Noland Hospital, 

who also live in the city limits of Birmingham, are there 
not?

A I don't know of any such limits.

Q Do you have white students --
MR. BISHOP:

May we have this marked?

(Defendant's Exhibit 1 received in evidence.)

Q Do you have white students who attended school in

Fairfield during the 1967 school year that live in Birmingham? 
A Yes.

Q Do you have any that made choices this year?
A I would assume so.

Q Have you accepted or turned down any of those
choices?



27

A I haven't had any applications referred to me

(11) for decisions.

q And the principals have made those decisions?

A Yes.
Q It is your assumption that the students are white

that live in Birmingham and continue to attend school?

A I have no such assumption.

Q Do you give your principals any instructions

about what to do about white students?
A I gave them no instructions different from the past.

Q Why was it that students that lived outside the city 

limits, Negro students, would get a letter from you —

MR. BISHOP:
We object to that. Argumentative.

MR. NEWTON:
I don't want to go through that whole list, but I 

can if Your Honor wants me to.

THE COURT:
I don't want you to go through anything not 

necessary.
MR. NEWTON:

This is entirely necessary. White students, that 

live in the Birmingham area, are going to Fairfield schools 

and are still going.



28

THE WITNESS:

Go ahead and prove it.

(12) MR. NEWTON:

We purpose to show that Negroes are always called 
to his attention.
THE COURT:

Have you got anything there to establish your con­
tention about the matter.

MR. NEWTON:

I can establish that all Negro students that live 

outside the city limits have been denied, other than the 

ones that want to go to the Englewood Elementary School. 

That is a Negro school.

Q Do you have any agreement with the Birmingham Board

of Education in regard to the Englewood School or any 

other school?

A The agreement is to permit students that live in
these two residential areas to attend the school nearest 

to them, or the school in the Englewood area.

Q I show you a letter dated June 15th. Is that your
signature (indicating)?
A Yes.

MR. NEWTON:

We would like to offer that as "Plaintiffs' Exhibit
4.



29

(Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4'1 

received in evidence.)

Q Mr. Nunn, reading from this letter written to Mrs. 

LaFaye Price:

"I am disapproving all of these applications.
(13) We have an agreement with the Birmingham 

Board of Education to permit students living 

in the Englewood area but on the Birmingham 
side to attend the Englewood School. Should 

you care to resubmit choice forms for the 

Englewood School, I will reconsider the matter."
May I ask you a question: Is the principal of the

Englewood School a Negro?

A Yes.
Q Are all members of the faculty of Englewood School

Negroes ?
A yes.

Q Are all staff members Negroes that work at Englewood

School?

A They don't have any staff members.

Q Janitors, lunchroom workers?

A Yes.

Q They are all Negroes?



30

A Yes.

Q Now, any student that lives in Birmingham, even

though they live out of the city limits of Fairfield, they 

are free to go to Englewood School, is that (14) correct?

A Yes. May I be given the privilege of commenting?
THE COURT:

Yes, sir.

THE WITNESS:

This agreement was reached with the Birmingham Board 

of Education solely for the benefit of little children, 

small children, attending the first and second grades, who 

could go across the street and attend the school, rather 

than having to ride a public bus, or other transportation, 

to go several miles to attend school, and it was out of the 

kindness of the Board of Education that they were given 

this privilege, and the same holds true for those that live 
in the Vinesville area.
THE COURT:

In other words, the understanding is based upon the 

proximity of the child to the school?
A Yes, sir.

THE COURT:

It looks like to me that this problem would be simpli­
fied if you wouldn't accept any transfer at all.

Q A student's house address would be 5300 Avenue H, in



31

Vinesville; would that not be nearer Fairfield (15) field 

High School than Fairfield Industrial High School, sir?

A No, that would not, to the best of my memory.

Q How many blocks, in your judgment, would it be

from 5300 Avenue I, Vinesville, to the Fairfield Indus­

trial High School?
(Thereupon, the witness ob­

served Defendants' Exhibit 1.)
THE COURT:

Fairfield?

MR. NEWTON:

Avenue I, Judge, would be a Birmingham address.

THE COURT:

Are you looking at the Birmingham address now?

A No, sir. This (indicating) is Fairfield.
MR. NEWTON:

I am contending that that is much closer to the 

Fairfield High School than it is to the Fairfield 

Industrial High School, where they go.
THE WITNESS:

You point out to me where 5300 Avenue I is, then I 

will try to intelligently answer the question.
MR. NEWTON:

All right, sir.



32

MR. BISHOP:

Mark Vinesville there, Mr. Nunn, (16) please.

MR. NEWTON:
This map shows Avenue H. Avenue H is a street that 

half of it is Fairfield and half is Birmingham.

The very next street to Avenue H is Court H, and the 

next street is Avenue I.
This street that shows on the map in green, half of 

it is in Fairfield and the other half would be Birmingham.

5300 Avenue I would be the very north end. Avenue 

I would run north and south, and it would be the very 

north end of Avenue I.
THE WITNEESS:

The question he is asking me, if your point is "closer 

to this school (indicating) than to this school (indicat­

ing) , I will say a lot closer.

My judgment tells me this point (indicating) is 

closer to Fairfield Industrial High School than it is to 

Fairfield High School.

MR. NEWTON:

Since Fairfield has no bus system, I can see it is 

at least two blocks closer to go to the Fairfield High 

School.

THE COURT:
If you take a beeline, it might (17) be closer, but



33

you have to consider the way the child has to go.

MRo NEWTON:
The child has to go directly by the school and down 

the hill.

MR. BISHOP:
We object. That is not a question.

MR. NEWTON:
This address I just gave him, the nextdoor neighbor 

would be a white person that lives in Birmingham.

I am saying that the white children that live in that 

area should go to Fairfield.

MR. BISHOP:

I object to it, Judge.
THE COURT:

The statement is not evidence. Whatever the witness 

says is evidence.

MR. NEWTON:
Your Honor, I don't want to take the Court’s time 

to go through all this. There's a series of letters.

The superintendent denies the applications.
THE COURT:

There seems to be an interpretation of this letter 

dated May 1st.

THE WITNESS:

I was merely copying the Court's order.



34

THE COURT:

I believe you missed it one day.

Excuse me. I have a call.

(18) (Thereupon, the Court left the

courtroom, and, upon his return, 

an off-the-record discussion 

ensued, following which the 

following proceedings were had 

and done:)

EVIDENCE ON BEHALF OF THE INTERVENOR 

BY MR. WEINBERG:

Q Mr. Nunn, have you rejected any applications for

the reason of overcrowding?

A No.

Q Have you made application to this Court for —  to

approve any of those rejections that were made? Did you 

bring up, with this Court, to disapprove any of those 

choice forms?

A I made a report to this Court.

Q Prior to disapproving the choice forms?
A No.

MR. WEINBERG:

Your Honor, I ask that, since this decree gives only 
the reason of overcrowding, and if there is any other 

reason, that the Court must approve any disapproving by the



35

school board of choice forms, that the defendant be re­

frained from disapproving any choice forms, other than what 

is written in the decree, and that they all be refiled and 

go through (19) the procedure that is written in the decree. 

MR. NEWTON:

I would like to introduce seven choice forms. These 
forms are denied for reason that the student was not duly 

promoted, for reason of proximity, and reason of failure 

in certain grades and certain courses in school, but most 

of them deny that the student was promoted to the grade 

applied for.

These students, everyone of them, are in the City 

limits of Fairfield, but they are denied because they 

failed last year, or because the teacher wrote something 

on their cards about they were had to get along with, 

and that is no reason to keep the child in the Negro 
school.

MR. BISHOP:

We are prepared to show the reason for the dis­
approval .

THE COURT:

He can pick it up the first thing Monday morning.

He can do it at that time.
MR. BISHOP:

We will be ready.



36

MR. NEWTON:

We will be ready to continue Monday morning.

The power of subpoena wouldn't be available to me, 

and I would like for the superintendent to (20) bring 

choice forms on white students. I think it is going to 

be crucial, Your Honor.

THE COURT:
Bring all those in, if you can locate them, Mr. Nunn 

9:00 o'clock Monday morning.

MR. WEINBERG:
And especially the white students now living in the 

city limits of the City of Birmingham.

THE COURT:
Well, do the best you can.

Court is adjourned until 9:00 o'clock Monday morning

(Daily Adjournment)

JULY 17, 1967 9:00 A.M

COURT RECONVENED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT

MORNING SESSION

THE COURT:
Gentlemen, we are ready to proceed. I believe Mr. 

Nunn was on the stand.
Go VIRGIL NUNN

thereupon resumed the witness stand and testified further

as follows:



37

DIRECT EXAMINATION- RESM'D „

BY MR. NEWTON:
Q Mr. Nunn, I believe we made a request on Friday

afternoon for some additional choice forms. Did you get 

a (21) chance to bring those, sir?

THE COURT:

What was the request?

MR. NEWTON:
We made a request on Friday afternoon Mr. Nunn bring 

some other choice forms with him, and I think the Court 

asked him to do that, and I want to know if he did have 

that.
A I have a statement of a number of choice forms that
have been received in the previously all white schools from 

students in the Birmingham area, and also in that same area 

from the previously all Negro schools.

Q All right, sir.

A (Handing document to counsel)
Q Now, Mr. Nunn, I notice this does ~  do you have any

information whether any of these choices were granted or 
not?

A it is to be assumed all of those were approved for

both the white schools and the colored school.

MR. NEWTON:

All right. I would like to, your Honor, offer this



38

as Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 received 
in evidence)

Q Then, Mr. Nunn, from this report that we have entered

in evidence, the board has accepted the students, the white 

students that live in the Birmingham, Alabama area, too?

A I didn't understand your question.

(22) Q From this report, the board has, in fact, 

accepted and transferred white students who live outside 

the Fairfield City Limits to previously all white schools?
A Yes, that is right.

Q And the board also has accepted some Negro students

who live outside the City Limits to previously all Negro 
schools?

A Yes, sir, approximately the same number.

Q The white students are 93, and the number of Negro
students are 84, to be exact?
A Yes, sir.

Q Mr. Nunn, have you, because of the desegregation pro­
cess, had to transfer or dismiss any teachers?

A No final decision has been made in that area.

Q Have any teachers been terminated, sir, already
by the board of education?
A Yes.

Q For those reasons?

A I beg your pardon?



39

Q Have any teachers been terminated at this time for

those reasons?

A I answered yes.

Q Did you make a report to this Court you anticipated 

(23) terminating a teacher for reasons of desegregation? 

MR. BISHOP:

We don't believe there is any testimony of termina­

tion. I believe it was a letter of resignation.

MR. NEWTON:
I believe he did testify he had terminated.

Q Did you make a report to this Court prior to your 
termination of any teacher or teachers?

A No; I did not.
Q Were you aware that a Court order required a report 

to be made prior to the termination of that teacher or 

teachers?

MR. BISHOP:

We object; calls for a legal conclusion.

THE COURT;

What portion of the Court order are you referring to 

MR. NEWTON:

A five day notice. I don't have it before me.

THE COURT:

Overrule the objection if that is in the Court order 

MR. NEWTON:

Yes, sir.



40
Q Were you aware of that, Mr. Nunn?

A I was not.
Q Now, Mr. Nunn, a series of these students, without
going into all of them who were not denied transfers be­
cause (24) they lived outside the City Limits, were denied 
transfers for other reasons, poor grades, disciplinary prob­
lems, and so forth; did you, sir, conceive that to be within 
the framework of the order as you understand it, that for

any reason other than overcrowding, you might deny students 
transfers?
A I am sorry I am not understanding your question, Mr.
Newton, but be specific.
Q Among these letters that I have are letters pointing

out that a child, for instance, failed arithmetic, or 

that a child had a disciplinary problem, or that a child's 

grades generally were poor. In many of those areas 

children or students were denied transfers based on those 

facts?
A Yes.
Q My question, was, sir, do you conceive that, under

the order which Fairfield Board operates, as a ground for 

denying a student as grounds for transfer, any of the 

reasons we just enumerated?
A I assumed the Court did at intend to lower the

quality of education.
Q Were you aware that the only grounds listed in the



41

Court order for denying a student his right to transfer 

was overcrowding?

MR. BISHOP:
I object to that. The Court order does (25) not so 

provide.

THE COURT:
There was something else, under extraordinary cir­

cumstances, wasn't there?
MR. BISHOP:

Yes, sir.

THE COURT:
What paragraph are you referring to?

MR. NEWTON:

Paragraph 2 (1).

THE COURT:

Preference in assignments?

MR. NEWTON:

Yes, sir.

THE COURT:
Let me read that so I can have it in my mind.

MR. NEWTON:
Yes, sir. This was the part which I was talking 

about. None of these students, according to the letters 
I have here were denied their gransfer because they weren't 
in the proper grade, or they did not apply for the proper



42

grade, or that they were not residents of Fairfield, these 

particular incidents, but rather they had had a disciplinary 

problem, and their grades were poor in certain areas, and 

our contention is that is not a basis for denying transfer. 
MR. BISHOP:

We have reported that certain students were denited 
transfer on the basis of disciplinary problems. We have 

so reported, and the report shows that affirmatively.

THE COURT:

Reported to this Court?

(26) MR. BISHOP:

Yes, sir.

MR. NEWTON:

Our contention is that is not a basis, and that is 
one of the reasons we are here.
MR. BISHOP:

We can meet that position headon. Our position is 

if a student is having serious disciplinary problems, and 

we are in position to show that, it is a ground for denial 

of the application to transfer, and the report was certain 
students were denied the application for transfer on the 

ground there are serious disciplinary problems. We are 

in position to go into the details if our adversary desires, 
and if the Court so desires.



43

THE COURT:
The decree required you, except under the provision 

for overcrowding, to report the matter to the Court.

A Your Honor, that was done.

THE COURT:
"Except with the approval of the Court in extra­

ordinary circumstances, no choice shall be denied for any 

reason other than overcrowding.

MR. NEWTON:
Yes, sir, and our contention is no one sought the 

approval of the Court and the choice forms were summarily 

denied.

MRo BISHOP:
Judge, the report forms that were filed with this 

Court show affirmatively as to each school the (27) number 

that were disapproved and also the reasons; paragraph number 

3 showing discipline, showing exactly the number that were 

disapproved on those specific grounds.
We conceive under our construction of the order this 

report form, would be adequate. If further details are 
necessary as to the reasons for disapproval, we would be 
glad to file them in this Court. We did not do so out of 

an abundance of reasons. I might say in fairness, one of 

which was that we do not wish to make a public and permanent 

record some of the serious disciplinary problems that these



44

children were denied in the hope they could rehabilitate 

themselves in the future, and not have that permanently 

recorded in a court record. If they prefer we do it, we 
will do so.

MR. NEWTON:

Our answer to that is simply this, disciplinary 

problems and those matters, we feel that the school 

board can adequately handle. If the child is in a public 

school, we don't see that leaving the child in a Negro 

school will solve any disciplinary problem. That has been 

the age old argument, but we don't think this has anything 
to do with this problem at this time.
MR. BISHOP:

Judge, that doesn't have anything to do with race. 

That is applied uniformly to white and colored. (28) If 
they have a serious disciplinary problem the rule is 

uniformly applied without any distinction whatever to race. 
THE COURT:

I notice a letter to Judge Lynne, and they have not 
been approved at this time; is that correct?

MR. BISHOP:

Judge, we assume they have been approved.
THE COURT:

There is no order?



45

MR. BISHOP:
We have no order.

THE COURT:

I don't know that the time is fixed when this is 

approved. I assume that the approval could be had at 

any time before the student actually entered the school 

or before the school term began, I am not sure.

MR. BISHOP:

Judge, I say with respect specifically to this dis­

ciplinary problem, that has nothing at all, no relation 

at all to race. We will be glad to go into each situation 

to each student but the rule is applied uniformly to white 

or Negro. It makes no difference.

MR. NEWTON:

There is one noteable exception to this here and that 
is in chambers your Honor promised me Yolande Dixon would 
be returned, and the Board has denied her this year.
MR. BISHOP:

The Board hasn't denied her anything. The Board 

has applied uniformly the issue. That child was suspended 
due to the circulation and possession in the (29) school 

she was then attending, some very salacious, to speak 

generously of it, literature. She has now filed an appli­

cation to transfer. So whether white or colored, such an 

application under the rules of the Fairfield Board would be



46

denied if the child had a serious disciplinary problem 

there. As a matter of fact, your Honor will recall that 

specific case, and since it is placed into issue, it 

involved the possession and circulation in the school 
literature which was as salacious as any we have ever read. 

THE COURT:

She was promptly re-admitted to the Negro school, 

and now she is asking to be transferred to another school? 

MR. BISHOP:
Yes, sir.

MR. WEINBERG:
Your Honor, may I make a point? We have been speak­

ing about transfers from one school to another, and as I 

understand it, the free choice plan has nothing to do with 
transfer. Transfer happens in the coming school year after 

a student has been assigned to a school. This is an initial 

assignment, and the fact that in previous court orders 

they were working under the transfer plan doesn't bear on 

this order here. Paragraph 2, Section B says that all 

students, both white and Negro shall be required to exercise 

a free choice of school annually. It says (30) nothing 

about any school that was out, or transferring in or out 
of any school.

Mr. Bishop keeps insisting he didn't want to make a 

public record of the discipline problems, and ignores the



47

fact that he rejected 53 applications, some which filed 

late choice forms. If Mr. Bishop would address himself to 

the reasons for the non-compliance of the order of dis­

approving children before he had approval of the Court -- 

MR. BISHOP:

I will be glad to address myself to that as I did on 

Friday when I assume that the representative of the depart­

ment was present. Those that were denied, by and large 

were on the basis of non-residency, which we discussed for 
some hour and a half last Friday, and which we have also 

discussed this morning.

THE COURT:
How many were involved on this date problem that we 

have here?

THE WITNESS:

Four.
THE COURT:

Just one?
MR. BISHOP:

Four have been, is that right, Mr. Nunn?

THE WITNESS:
Yes.

MR. BISHOP:

There were four, and may I point out over the recess 

we did check the choice form letter which was sent out by



48

the Fairfield School Board, and it follows (31) verbatim 

the choice form letter spelled out in the decree of the 

Court.

THE WITNESS:
It copied it word for word.

THE COURT:
However, I believe the letters went out from when 

the second letter denying the transfer on the ground of 

lateness. The letter itself said they did not have to 

file before June 1st. When the four of them came in on 

June 1st, they said they were too late. I believe that 

was an error sofar as those four were concerned.

MR. WEINBERG:
Judge, I direct your attention to Paragraph 2 (D) 

which says failure to exercise a choice within the choice 
period shall not preclude any student from exercising a 

choice at any time before he enters school.

THE COURT:
Except he has to go to the bottom of the line.

MR. WEINBERG:
After the first choice period, first come first

serve.

THE COURT:
Proceed.

Q Mr. Nunn, I show you a photograph and ask you if you



49

recognize the subject of what is shown on that photograph? 
A Yes.

Q What is that, Mr. Nunn?

A That is one of the buildings of Englewood Elementary
(32) School.

Q You think that is a fair representation of that 
building?

A Well, it is the building.
MR. NEWTON:

I would like to have this marked and introduced as 
plaintiff's exhibit.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 received 

in evidence)
Q Now, Mr. Nunn, I show you a second photograph and ask 
you if you recognize that, please?
A Yes.

Q Is that also a view of a part of a building that is
known as Englewood Elementary School?

A This is the same building I just identified, only
from a different angle.
MR. NEWTON:

We would like to offer this as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7.

(Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7 received 

in evidence)
Q Now, Mr. Nunn, I show you a third picture, sir, and



50

ask you if that is also a view of the Englewood School?

A Another view of the same building.
MR. NEWTON:

We would like to offer this as Plaintiffs1 Exhibit 8.

(Plaintiffs' Exhibit 8 received 
in evidence.)

(33) Q I show you a fourth picture and ask you if 
tha t —

MR. BILLINGSLEY:

We object to Mr. Bishop and Mr. Nunn talking while 
Mr. Newton is with the witness.

THE COURT:

He doesn't disturb me, but I don’t know whether he 
disturbs anybody else.

MR. BILLINGSLEY:

We think it is very improper he do it at this time.

He will have the opportunity to cross examine Mr. Nunn.
MR. BISHOP:

Since the statement was made, let the record show I 

made no statement to Mr. Nunn, and Mr. Nunn stated that the 
pictures were of the same building.

Q This is a view of the same building?
A No, sir.

Q Is that building also a part of the Englewood Elemen­
tary School complex?



51

A Yes, it is.

MR. NEWTON:
We offer this as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 9.

Q Mr. Nunn, how many such teachers have been dismissed

because of the decrease in enrollment due to the desegre­

gation process?
A To the best of my knowledge, three.

Q Are they all Negro teachers?

(34) A Yes.

THE COURT:
What was the question?

MR. NEWTON:
My question was how many dismissed -—  how many 

teachers have been dismissed because of the decrease in 

enrollment because of the desegregation process, and I 

believe his answer was three, and my next question was are 

they all Negroes.

A And my answer was yes.

MR. NEWTON:
I believe that is all.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. BISHOP:
Q Mr. Nunn, what were the circumstances with respect

to the dismissals?
A The state tenure law in Alabama requires that non­

tenure teachers be notified on or before the last day of



52

school if they are not to be returned the following year. 

It became very obvious as the choice forms were coming 

in that one school was going to lose some 50 students, 
and another school was going to lose 35 or 40 students, 

and since we are operating on practically a deficit 

budget during the current school year, we could not 

afford' to get caught with more teachers than we were 

authorized teacher units, so in exercising my judgment, 

in order to meet the dead line of the (35) teacher 

tenure law of the last day of school, I thought it was 

appropriate to release them, and the board approved two 

teachers from one school and one from another. Of course, 

we had no decrease in enrollment, that is previous de­

crease in enrollment in the white schools. There was no 

exodus of white students to Negro schools. The exodus 

was from Negro schools to white schools.
Q During this same period, have you had resignations

of white teachers?

A Not during that period.
Q During the past year or 18 months?
A Oh, yes.

Q Have those resignations been due, in any respect,

insofar as your reports disclose, to the integration 

process?

A In my opinion, yes.



53

Q And how many such resignations have you had?
A I recall one specifically.

MR. WEINBERG:

Your Honor, I object. That is irrelevant.
THE COURT:

Overrule the objection. Go ahead, Mr. Bishop.

Q Mr. Nunn, with respect to your various applications 

for transfer, would you please refer to your report that 

you (36) made to the Court at the Donald Elementary 

School. As disclosed in that report, did you approve 97 

applications for transfer of Negro students?
A I did.

THE COURT:

Where is that total given? You don't have the total? 
MR. BISHOP:

There were 97 applications approved.

Q Now, is the Donald Elementary school a formerly all
white school?
A Yes.

Q And is it a correct statement that as of the next
school year, based upon the applications for transfer 

approved, that 35 per cent of that studentbody of a formerly 
all white school would be Negro?

A Yes, sir.

Q Do you know, or does your investigation of all the



54

school systems in Alabama indicate any such high percentage 

in any other school in the entire state system?

MR. NEWTON:
Your Honor, I object to that unless he can show he 

has investigated every school district in the State of 

Alabama.

THE COURT:
Have you studied the enrollment of other schools?

(37) A In conversations with my fellow school admini­

strators I have their reports of integration.

MR. NEWTON:
If he does11 care to offer them in evidence, I object. 

THE COURT:
I will overrule the objection. We are arguing about 

something that I don't think has much weight.

MR, NEWTON:

We except.
A I don't know of any school in Alabama that has more

than a ten per cent.

MR, BILLINGSLEY:
We object to that.

THE COURT:
Sustain the objection. That is excluded.

Q Now, in connection with the Englewood Elementary

school, were there any applications for transfer denied?



55

A No.
Q At the Fairfield High School, did you approve appli­

cations for -- 65 applications for transfer?

A For Negroes?

Q Yes.
A Yes, sir.
Q And at the Fairfield Industrial High School, was

there a single application for transfer denied?

A No.
Q At the Fairfield Junior High School did you approve

(38) 108 Negro applications for transfer?

A I did.
Q At the Forest Hill Elementary School, was there a

single application for transfer denied?

A No.
Q Was there a single application for transfer denied

at the Glen Oaks Elementary School?

A n o .
Q Or at the Interurban Heights Junior High School?

A No.
Q Or at the Robinson Elementary School?

A No.
Q Mr. Nunn, did you receive any applications from

Negroes to transfer to the Glen Oaks Elementary School?

A No.



56

Q Or to the Forest Hill Elementary School?

A No applications for either school.

Q Did you receive any applications from any white

students to transfer to those schools -- transfer from 
those schools —  I am sorry, transfer to those schools?
THE COURT:

Glen Oaks was normally a white school?
A Yes, sir.

Q Did you receive any applications from white students

(39) to transfer from those schools to what was formerly an
all Negro school?

A No, sir.

Q Did you receive any application from any white student
of a formerly white school to what was formerly an all Negro 
school?

A To the best of my knowlege, no.

Q Mr. Nunn, in connection with Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1,
during the week-end recess, did you have occasion to check 

that letter with the choice form letter that was directed 
to be dispatched by the Court order?
A Yes; I did, and found it identical.

Q With respect to Plaintiffs' Exhibits 2, 3 and 4, did 
you mail those letters to the parents of the various 

students listed in that letter with respect to their 
applications to transfer?
A i did.



57

Q Have you caused to be -- did you mail a letter to 

the parents of all the students whose applications for trans­
fer were denied?

A Yes; I did.

Q Did you cause to be reproduced a copy of each of the 

letters dispatched and mailed to each of the parents out­

lining (40) in substance the reason for the denial, all 

of those applications except those that were denied for non­

residency matters?

A I did, and, as a matter of fact, I included those for
non-residency also, so that is a complete file.

Q Is the file you have indicated a copy of the 53

letters you mailed to the parents of the students who 

applied for transfer whose applications were denied?
A That is correct.

Q And do these letters set out basically and in sub­

stance the reason for the denial?

A They do.
MR. BISHOP:

We offer the file collectively as the defendants' 

next exhibit.
(Defendants* Exhibit 2 received 

in evidence)

THE COURT:
How many application altogether were denied?



58

MR„ BISHOP:

Fifty-three,

Q That was 53 denied out of a total of 3,850 students?
A Yes, sir,

Q I am sorry, 3,245, I believe, applications received?

A Yes, sir, 3,850 is the estimated enrollment.

Q Yes, you received 3,245 applications?
(41) A Yes, sir.

Q And that leaves approximately 600 from whom you
received no applications?

A Yes, sir.

Q And of the total making application for transfer, you 
denied how many?

A Fifty-three.

Q How many students attended the Englewood School last
year?

A 151.

Q How many do you anticipate would be scheduled to at­
tend this coming year?

A We were planning on approximately the same number,

assuming we would have a similar number of first graders 

to enroll as the ones who were being promoted to the 
next higher grade.

Q How many teachers did you have at Englewood last
year?

A Seven.



59

q How many have you scheduled to have the coming year?
A Seven.
Q How many students attended the Donald Elementary

School last year?

A 274.
(42) Q And how many teachers did you have at the Donald 
Elementary School?
A Ten, including the principal.
Q I calculate that to be a teacher-pupil ratio of one

to 27, approximately.

A That is correct.
Q How many classrooms do you have at the Donald

Elementary School?
A We have ten. We have 10 rooms designated as classrooms. 

Q How many classrooms do you have at Englewood School?

A Eight.
Q Mr. Nunn, will you point out, by referring to Defend­

ants' Exhibit 1, the map, the location of the Englewood 
School, and the residence of the non-residence of Fairfield 

that there has been service given to historically?
A This is the Englewood School here shaded in blue, and 

the Birmingham area in question is this area here with a 

roughly drawn circle around it.

Q And showing Englewood.
A This is the Birmingham side of the city limits.



60

Q Now —

A The heavy black line.

(43) Q If those students were not permitted to

attend the Fairfield Englewood School, what would be the 

next closest elementary school that would be available 

for them to attend?

A Over in Ensley, which is in this direction, and I

would estimate that to be three or four miles.

Q Now, if they were not permitted to attend the Fair-

field Englewood School, is there any other elementary 

school in Fairfield that could accommodate the number of 

students residing in Birmingham who have formerly attended 

the Englewood school?

THE COURT:
That is an elementary school. Where is your closest 

elementary school?
A Donald.

Q Is that the one where the teacher-pupil ratio is

already one to 27?

A Yes.

MR. NEWTON:

May I have a question on voir dire?

THE COURT:
Yes.



61

MR. NEWTON:
Are you familiar with a school called Wellington 

School located in Wylam which is beyond the city limits 

of Fairfield?

A No; I am not.

MR. NEWTON:
Negro elementary school?

(4 4) a No; I am not.

MR. NEWTON:
Then can you say the nearest school to Fairfield is 

three or four miles?
A I made reference to the school in Ensley, and I was

of the opinion that is where they would have to go. If 

they had to go to Wylam which is in this area, that is still 

a long way to go.

MR. NEWTON:
The particular section of Wylam I refer to is just 

out of the city limits.
A Here is the city limits on this side, so it has to

be in this area.

MR. NEWTON:
I mean the city limits going toward the old No. 8 

Section, so to speak.
A No. 8 Section, so to speak is five or six miles from

here. Here are the wireworks, it is back out in this 

direction.



62

MR. NEWTON:

No, that is going in the opposite direction.

A The tin mill, the tin mill is located over here, and

it is in the vicinity of the old No. 8 commissary.
MR. NEWTON:

The school to which I refer would be about four blocks 
from the old coal yard.

A I don't know of any such school.

(45) THE COURT:

Go ahead.

Q By referring to Plaintiffs' Exhibit 5, what would be

the effect on the white students you have listed, there 

being 93 white students who reside in Birmingham, and 84 
Negro students who reside in Birmingham, if the Fairfield 

system was required to accommodate them in schools other 

than those they actually have attended; how could you work 
it out, what would be the results?

A If I understand your question, and I want to be sure

before I answer it, you are asking me if these students 

could not or did not attend the Fairfield schools, what 
effect would it have upon them?

MR. NEWTON:

I didn't understand the question that way. We might 
need the reporter to read it.

THE COURT:

Re-phrase your question.



63

q What would be the effect on those students if they 

were not permitted to attend the Fairfield school?

THE COURT:
By the way, do all of these students live in the 

neighborhood of the Englewood school, or other places?

A No, sir. Speaking of the ones from the colored

community, some of them live in the Englewood community, 
and some of them in the Vinesville community.

(46) THE COURT:

All right, go ahead.

A First of all, I would say that those students who

are juniors and seniors probably would not be able to meet 

graduation requirements in the time that is ordinarily 

left for them to graduate, for many reasons.

MR. WEINBERG:
What are you reading, Mr. Nunn?

A I am reading from some notes I have made.

THE COURT:
Don't interrupt the witness unless you as the 

Court's permission.
MR. WEINBERG:

Excuse me.
A Each high school has its own requirements for

graduation, and the requirements, depending on the course 

the student is taking, whether it is a commercial course, 

or general course, or college prepatory course; and I would 

say it would be very likely a student having been enrolled



64

for two years in one high school would have difficulty 

meeting the graduation requirements of another high school 

if he had to transfer for the last year or two.

I would also like to say, for the benefit of senior 

athletes, they would not be able to participate in the 

athletic program of the school to which they were transferred, 

because the Alabama High School Athletics Association re­

quires the student to be in residence one year before (47) 

participating, unless the family itself moves its residence, 
and we are assuming in this case there will be no moving 

of families, rather moving of students.

Q Mr. Nunn, Does Englewood school have a lunch room,
and if so, please describe it very briefly to the Court?

A Yes, sir. But may I make one other point in answer

to your other question before we leave that?
Q Please do.

A I have spoken of the effects on the students. It

must be remembered there would be effects upon the school 

system. If we were to lose 93 and 84, 177 students this 
time of year, this is roughly five teacher units, so teachers 

would be involved in this transfer also, and this would 

mean a loss of approximately $25,000 in revenue to the 

Fairfield School System for the next year since we get paid 

on the basis of daily average attendance.

Q Mr. Nunn, while we are on that subject, in your



65

report to the Court in response to the Court order, you 

outlined that certain choice forms or applications for 

transfer were denied on the basis of poor grades. Was 

that regulation applied equally to white or Negro 

students, regardless of which one?

A Yes, sir. That regulation as I have stated, has

been (48) applied down through the years. The board of 

education has a rule we will not accept a transfer 

student unless that student is in satisfactory standing 
from the school from whence he has come.

Q Did that have any application to the race?

A No.

Q Either the formation of the ruling, the application 

of the rule, or the verbage thereof?

A No, sir.

Q In connection with the choice forms that were dis­
approved, or the transfer applications that were dis­

approved for discipline reasons, did those disapprovals 

have any relation to race, either white or Negro, either 

in its verbage or in its adoption or application?

A No, sir.
Q Is the same situation true with respect to the late 

filing of choice forms, and choice forms that were not 

signed?
A That is true. I would like to say about the one



66

choice form that was disapproved because it wasn't signed, 

and I would like for that to be introduced in evicence.

May I leave the witness stand in order to get it?

Q Yes.

(49) A (Witness leaves witness stand and returns with 

document).

Q If you will give me that, please.

Mr. Nunn, I show you a piece of paper which is a 

choice form. When that was received by the Fairfield 

Board of Education, please point out to the Court what it 
had on it?

A All that was on this choice form was the student's

name, Reginald L. Brooks. He had no address, no indica­

tion of who the parents were. He did not state the grade 

the child was entering, nor the school from whence he was 

coming. All of that information had to be supplied from 
his enrollment card, a copy of which I had in my office. 
MR. BISHOP:

We offer that form in evidence as the defendants' 
next in order.

A And it is not signed.

(Defendants' Exhibit 3 received 

in evidence)

MR«, NEWTON:

Was the "X" there?



67

A Yes, sir, but I had no way of knowing but what a

child was playing a prank on this student. It didn't list 

the parents' name, to say nothing of the signature.
Q Did you write to the child's parents in June 6, 1967, 

explaining to them the reason for that declination?
A Yes, and a copy of this has already been submitted

(50) as an exhibit.
Q Mr. Nunn, did the Fairfield Board retain the envelopes

in which applications for transfer were made during the 1966 

school year?

A Yes, sir; I did.
Q Do you have those envelopes?

A There are the envelopes, I believe.
Q Now, as a matter of fact, were all of the applications 

for transfer that the Fairfield Board received for its 1966 

school year received in envelopes with the return address 
of Attorney Demetrius C. Newton, or the return address of 

Mr. Neal and Mrs. Josh Freeman?

A All that came through the mail.
Q With one exception; is that correct?

A Yes.

MR. BISHOP:
We would like to make a count of them and tender one 

rather than encumber the record.



68

THE COURT:

These were --

A These were choice forms that came to me by mail from

Attorney Demetrius Newton.

MR. NEWTON:

I object to that unless he can show I sent him those 

choice forms, and as an officer of this Court I can say 

I have never sent any choice forms to Mr. Nunn. (51) They 

may bear my signature -- they may bear my return address, 

but I will say I have never sent him a choice form in my 

life, so I don't know —  I don't want him to say they came 
from me.

THE COURT:

You are saying they have his return address?

A Yes, sir; and I had to send a signed statement back

to him I did receive them.

MR. NEWTON:

I think the record will show they bear my return 

address, but they don't bear my signature. As an officer 

of this Court, I will say I never sent him a choice form.

A I believe I said I received them through the mail.

MR. NEWTON:

Yes, sir, but I believe you also said you received
them from me.



69

MR. BISHOP:
We would offer them in evidence.

THE COURT:
What is the signficance of this?

MR. BISHOP:
All choice forms were received from the return 

address of two sources, and receipts for certified mail 

were mailed back to those persons who were making the 

solicitation. We would offer one of each and put the 

number in rather than encumber the record.

MR. WEINBERG:
I am not clear on this.

(52) MR. BISHOP:
We offer as the exhibit next in order one of the 

representative envelopes and state that —

MR. WEINBERG:
I object to that, unless Mr. Bishop will tell me what 

the significance of these envelopes is.

MR. NEWTON:
I would object to any of them as being introduced in 

evidence as being sent by me. If he wants me to testify,
I will testify, but as an officer of this Court, I state 

to your Honor I have never sent him a choice form, and 
if they bear my return address, and I did receive some of 

the statements for registered mail, but I object to those



70

being introduced as having been sent by me because none 
were.

MR„ BISHOP:

They are offered for the purpose of showing the 

Fairfield Board of Education received 24 certified letters 

exactly duplicating Defendants' Exhibit 4 with the return 

address of Attorney Demetrius Newton, 408 North 17th 
Street, Birmingham, Alabama.

MR. WEINBERG:

That doesn't satisfy my objection. What difference 
does it make?

THE COURT:

I asked him that a while ago, I am going to let him 
make his offer and then I will rule.
MR. BISHOP:

That the Fairfield Board of Education received 30 
certified letters with the return address of (53) Dr.

Neil and Mrs. Joyce Friedman, as shown by Defendants' 

Exhibit 5, all being addressed either to Dr. Oliver, 

Principal, or Mr. Craig, Principal; and that the only other 
choice form received by mail was one which we request be 

identified as Defendants' Exhibit 6.

The purpose of these offers is several-fold. Number 

1, to show that with one exception those received by mail 

apparently were solicited or influenced by persons as



71

shown on the envelopes. The order of this Court says no 

student is to be influenced. That applies uniformly to 

all parties, we assume, and obviously these persons were 

not only influenced, but they were solicited in that the 

choice forms were transmitted by the persons whose return 

address is indicated on the very envelopes.

MR. NEWTON:
These are choice forms prior to the Court order to 

which he refers. These were choice forms from the last 

school year. My second objection is a very serious one, 

because he admits he is offering them as being solicited 

from the persons from whom they were sent, and I have not 

sent a choice form, and for that reason I streneously 

object to any suggestion I sent one.

MR. BISHOP:
I would say by or on behalf of.

MR. NEWTON:
They weren't sent on behalf of me.

(54) THE COURT:
Don't argue about that any more. These were last 

year before the Court order.

MR. BILLINGSLEY:
But for Mr. Bishop to say these were solicited is

a conclusion.



72

THE COURT:

I will sustain the objection. These went out a 
year ago.

Q Mr. Nunn, in addition to the pictures already in

evidence with respect to the Englewood School, may I show 

you a series of five other pictures and ask you if those 

are additional photographs of Englewood School, and if 

they accurately portray the condition of that school?
A Yes, sir. This is an outside view.
MR. BISHOP:

May we mark those as the defendants' exhibits next 

in order, and you can refer to them by exhibit number.

(Defendants' Exhibits 7, 8, 9, 10 

and 11 marked for identification) 
A Defendants' Exhibit 7 shows both buildings at
Englewood Scholl in perspective.
MR. NEWTON:

Are you testifying those pictures represent the con­
dition of the school as it now exists?

A Yes, I am. Of course, in all school buildings there

are broken windows occasionally, and this school has a few

(55) broken windows at the present time, but so does any 
other school in the system.
MR. NEWTON:

What I want to know, Mr. Bishop prefaced his question



73

as the way it now exists. I know when the pictures were 

taken that I offered in evidence, but I don't know when 

these were.

MR. BISHOP:
I was fixing to ask him.

Q Mr. Nunn, when was those photographs taken, please?
A These pictures were taken, and were available for

exhibiting in the Court, it must have been about two years 

ago.
Q Is the school substantially in the same condition

with the exception of broken windows you have related?

A That is the only difference.
Q Is there anything unusual about having broken windows

during the summer months at this particular school?

MR, NEWTON:

We object.
THE COURT:

Overrule the objection.
A Just as in other schools, it is nothing unusual.

We have broken windows in every school.
Q Are they replaced before the commencement of the 

Fall term?

A Yes.
(56) Q And is that a uniform practice of the Fairfield

Board?



74

A Yes, sir.

Q Will you please proceed with a brief description of

Englewood School as it now exists?

A Exhibit 9 is a picture showing a complex of two

rooms with a folded partition which can be opened and can 

be used for a small auditorium, sufficiently large to 

accommodate all the children in the School.

Exhibit 10 is a Exhibit 10 is a photograph of 

the lunchroom indicating that we have adequate and modern 

equipment for the storage and preparation of food.
MR. BILLINGSLEY:

We object to that and ask that the answer be stricken. 
He is using the word adequate.

THE COURT:

The photograph speaks for itself. I will sustain 
the objection.

A No. 8, I evidently overlooked it, but this is a

typical room equipped with furniture, the chair-desk type 
of furniture.
THE COURT:

Do you have flourescent lighting in all classrooms?
A Yes, sir.

THE COURT:

And Ceiltex ceilings?

(57) A Yes, sir. Exhibit 11 shows the toilet area.



75

They have modern plumbing and facilities.

Q Mr. Nunn, what is the present audited investment of 
the Fairfield School Board in buildings, equipment and land 

improvements of the Englewood School?

A The value of the land and improvements is $4233.42.

The value of the buildings if $104,145.76. The fair value 

of the contents and equipment and and_ so forth, $16,574.74, 

for a total value of $125,953.92 as certified by the 

accounting firm of Franklin, Turner & Williams.
Q Can you give us the amount of insurance presently 
carried on these buildings and improvements by the Fair- 

field School Board?
A Yes. The amount of insurance carried on the building 

at the present time is $90,000, on the contents $5500, mak­

ing a total of $95,500 of insurance coverage.

Q Mr. Nunn, do you have available the published
statistics and records showing the number of teachers in 

the various elementary schools within the State of Alabama 

system?

A Yes, sir.
Q How many elementary schools are there in Alabama

with fewer teachers than the Englewood School, and please -

(58) MR. NEWTON:
I object to that as immaterial and irrelevant.

Q —— and please give the reference of your response



to that question.

MR0 BILLINGSLEY:
We object to that.

THE COURT:
This works both ways. If the school is being 

maintained, even though the pupil teacher ratio is very 

low, for the purpose of segregation that would be very 

matieral. On the other hand, from the standpoint of 

good education, it might be material on the other aspect.

Overrule the objection.

MR. NEWTON:

We except.
A According to the Annual Report, 1965, State Depart­

ment of Education, which is the latest report they have 

compiled, on page 17 it shows there are 559 schools in 

the State of Alabama with five teachers or less. Engle­

wood has seven teachers.
Q Mr. Nunn, with respect to all of the choice forms,

what was the policy followed by the Fairfield Board of 

Education and your office as superintendent, insofar as 

the filing or processing of this applications is concerned 

A Each school was responsible for processing its own

choice forms. Principals were instructed to screen those

(59) and to submit to me any and all choice forms which 

they questioned, and I would make the final decision on



77

behalf of the Board of Education.

Q Let's take by way of example, the Donald Elementary 

School. If the students who attended Donald Elementary 

School last year and who, of course, had a choice form, 

where would they normally file that choice form?
A At Donald Elementary School.

Q If the application was rejected for any reason, what

would happen to the application prior to its actual re­

jection?

A The principal would refer it to the superintendent's

office.

Q In addition to having examined it by the principal, 

did your office also examine all choice forms which were 

finally rejected for any reason?
A Yes; and we secured the student's permanent record

file before making any decision of rejection.
Q You have testified based upon those applications

approved by the -- approved that at Donald Elementary School 

the school body would be 35 per cent Negro; is that correct? 

A Yes, sir.

Q Was that formerly an all white school?

A Yes.
(60) Q What would be the percentage of Negro students 

at the formerly all white Fairfield High School?

A Fourteen per cent.



78

Q And what would be the percentage of Negro students

in the formerly all white Junior High School?

A Twenty-two per cent.

Q What is the elementary school nearest to the Engle­
wood School in the Fairfield system?

A Donald Elementary School.

Q And have you shown in the report to this Court, so-

far as the Donald Elementary School is concerned, the 

enrollment of that school during the past school year?
A Yes. The Court is aware of that.
THE COURT:

274?

MR. BISHOP:

Yes, sir.

Q Where is the — - what is the nearest Birmingham

elementary school to the Englewood school, insofar as you 

know? Is that the Ensley school you have described?
A Yes.

Q What is the Charles Brown school?

A That is an elementary school in the City of
Birmingham.

Q Is that the elementary school in the City of Birming

ham closest to the Englewood school with the exception of

(61) the Ensley School you have previously described?

A No, there are two elementary schools in Ensley main­

tained previously for predominately all white students



79

that, as a matter of fact, are only five or six blocks 

from theis elementary area, the Baker Elementary School 

and the Bush Elementary School.

THE COURT:
Do they operate all grades?

A One through eight.

THE COURT:
They are five or six blocks from the Englewood area?

A Yes, sir.

MRo WEINBERG:
I didn't understand that. What is the one through

eight?

THE COURT:
Grades one through eight.

MR„ WEINBERG:

Where is the school?
A Bush Elementary School in Birmingham generally in

this direction from the Englewood community.
Q Mr. Nunn, as of this date, has the Fairfield School 

entered into any formal agreement with the Birmingham 

City school system with respect to the accommodation or 

unaccomodation of residents of Birmingham coming into the 

Fairfield School system this year?
A No. We have been working under a mutual agreement

(62) for the past number of years.



80

Q Is that the same agreement you referred to Friday

in your testimony?

A Yes.

Q Insofar as you know, is that the present status of

the agreement between Fairfield and the City of Birmingham? 

A Yes.

Q Does Exhibit No. 2, which is the collective group

of 53 letters, outline in substance the reasons for the 

refusal of the choice forms or transfer applications that 

you board has received that were rejected?

A That's correct.

Q Do you have available in the court room the under­

lying documents which would be in greater detail the reasons 

for that rejection, and which are available to the Court 

or to any party that desires?

A Yes; I do.

Q With respect to those rejections, specifically on

the grounds of poor grades and discipline, do you have 

those records available in the court room for inspection 

or examination by the Court or any counsel if they so 

desire?
A Yes; I do.

Q Mr. Nunn, according to my count, there were 300 and

(63) and not 318 applications returned by Negro students 

seeking to attend three integrated schools. Is that court

accurate?



81

A I believe it is, Mr. Bishop. I would have to do

some figuring. That information is available on the re­

port submitted to the Courtc

q Approximately 84 per cent of those were approved?

A Yes.

MR. BISHOP:
I believe that is all we have.

THE COURT:

318 you said?

MR. BISHOP:

308 I believe is correct.

A According to my figures, Mr. Bishop, there were 270 

approved and 53 disapproved. That is out of a total of 323. 

MR. BISHOP:

323, 270 approved and 53 disapproved?

A That is correct.
MR. BISHOP:

We offer in evidence defendants' exhibits 1 through 

11 inclusive.
MR. NEWTON:

The judge denied those envelopes, those exhibits, 

whatever number they were.
THE COURT:

Four, five and six.



82

MR. BISHOP:

We offer I though, through 11. I understand all were 
received except 4, 5 and 6; is that correct?
THE COURT:

Yes, sir,

MR. BISHOP:

Of course, we except to the rejection of (64) 4, 5
and 6.

That is all we have. Thank you so much, Mr. Nunn.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NEWTON:

Q Mr. Nunn, according to your report, it is a fact

no white student was denied his choice; is that correct, 
for any reason?

A No; I don't think that statement is correct.

Q All right, sir. Does your report show any rejection
of any white student for any reason?

A I have made no search, but I have one—

Q I am talking about your report you turned in to Court
of which I received a copy. Does that report show any 

rejection of some or any white student for any reason?
A No.

Q Mr. Nunn, I would like to ask you what is the total
value of Donald Elementary School?

A The total value of the buildings?



83

q No, sir, using the same total figures you used for

Englewood.

MR. BISHOPt
He is breaking it down.

A I will start with land and improvements.

Q All right, sir.

(65) A $47,010.65. Buildings, $275,474.20, equipment 

and contents $65,126.44.

Q The total?

A I don't have the total.

Q You only have the total of Englewood?

A I can arrive at it.

Q How about the same figures for Glen Oaks School?

A Land and improvements, $7,466.54; buildings,

$92.742.34; contents and equipment, $29,675.42, both 

estimate figures provided by the accounting firm of 

Franklin, Turner & Williams.
Q Now, how about those same figures for Forest Hills

Elementary School?
A Land and improvements for forest Hill, $11,374.71; 

buildings, $229,889.39, contents and equipment, $42,600.14. 
Q Now, Donald Elementary, Glen Oaks Elementary and

Forest Hill Elementary Schools are all previously all white 

schools, are they not?

A Yes.
Q Now, Englewood is the only school -- I mean am I



84

correct in saying that Englewood is the only elementary 

school in the City of Fairfield that has grades one 
through eight?

(66) A Yes.

Q And Englewood is a previously all Negro school; is
that correct?
A Yes.

Q Mr. Nunn, the total student body and faculty at

Englewood as of this time is still totally Negro; is that 
correct ?

A Yes, still totally Negro.

Q Now, Mr. Nunn, those percentages that you gave on

cross examination for Mr. Bishop about the percentage of 

Negro pupils in certain schools, I believe specifically, 

Donald, Donald Elementary, you named, I believe, Fairfield 

High School, are those percentages based on choice forms 

received to date, or are those percentages based on ex­

pected enrollment next year?

A This per cent is based on what per cent the number

of choice forms which have been approved from or for Negro 

students have been received for enrollment in a previously 
all white school.

Q Did you use as part of your calculation, the enroll­

ment or choice forms received for white this year? Did you 

use last year's entrollment for last year?



85

A I had no choice but to use it, the enrollment at 
the (67) close of the school in May.

Q So, in fact, you are talking about an increase in

the number of Negroes who have exercised choice forms 

based on the last year's enrollment of these schools 

which were predominately white in arriving at these per­
centages ?

A Yes, but these schools last year all had Negro 
enrollment.

Q You don't suggest to this Court Donald Elementary
had anything like 35 per cent last year, do you?
A No.

Q Well, will the Negro students who have been accepted

in previously all white schools be permitted to participate 

in all school activities, extra-curricular activities?
A To the best of my knowledge. There is one on the 

football squad at the time being, there were two on the 
track team last year.

Q Was it called to your attention in May of 1967 the 
white students had a dance and the Negro students came to 

the dance to find there was no dance for the Negro?
MR. BISHOP;

I object to that. That is no extracurricular
activity.

Q I am talking about school dance?



86

A The Fairfield Board of Education has a rule against

(68) sponsoring dances at the Fairfield School or in the 

Fairfield School system. If the PTA or some other allied 

organization comes in and sponsors a dance, it is done 

under their supervision, and the school has nothing to 
do with it.

MR. BISHOP:

I would like to inquire of the parties and the 

Department of Justice whether it is their position the 

PTA or some other outside organization sponsoring a dance, 

it is their position the Negro students are entitled to 

attend as a matter of constitutional rights?

MR. NEWTON:

We are not talking about that.

Q I preface my question with school activities, and

I ask Mr. Nunn if the Junior-Senior Prom was a school 

activity?

A It was not.

Q Now, I would like to ask Mr. Nunn if under the auspices

of the school system the formerly all Negro schools have 

dances held in the school building, today, in 1967, Junior 

and Senior Proms?

A It is not sponosred by the Board of Education,

Q Does the Board give the PTA, or whoever sponors it,

the right to hold such a dance?



87

A Yes, equally true to all schools.

Q You are saying the Junior and Senior Proms at the 

Fairfield Industrial High School is sponsored by the PTA 
or (69) someone else?

A I didn't say that.

Q In May, 1967, was the Junior-Senior prom at the

Fairfield Industrial High School sponsored by someone 
other than the administration?

A I do not know. I do not get associated with proms 
and dances.

Q Has it been called to your attention in July, 1967, 
there is only one rest room available at Englewood 
School for one sex only?

A There is a rest room for each of the two sexes.

Q I mean in working order at this time, has it been
called to your attention?

A They are both in working order at this time.

Q In other words, you can say as of today, or last

Friday there were two rest rooms in working order for 
both sexes?

A Yes.

MR. NEWTON:

I believe that is all.
RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. BISHOP:

Q Do you have available the number of Negro students



88

who attended Donald, Fairfield High and Fairfield Jr.

High (70) last year?
A I had that information with me in court.. As a

matter of fact, we do not maintain separate records, Mr. 

Bishop. They are students as far as we are concerned.

Q And has that policy been in effect since the original

Court order in this proceeding?

A Yes; it has. That could be ascertained by going

into each teacher's register and searching out the infor­

mation , but that is the only way it could be determined.

MR. BISHOP:

That is all we have.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. WEINBERG:
Q Mr. Nunn, did you say previously on that report

that you handed us this morning on how many children

from the Birmingham area, this was parked Plaintiff's Exhibit

5, were for Englewood Elementary School, there is an

estimated 15 students from the Birmingham area; is that

correct?
A Yes, but let me explain why it is an estimate. The

principal is in school this summer, and is not available, 

and I did not have access to the records, but I think 

this is a conservative figure.

Q Can you tell me how many students presently have made

choice for Englewood Elementary School?



89

(71) A That is shown in the report to the Court.
Q I think it is shown as 33.

A It looks to me like 41.

Q I am speaking of the elementary schools, not 7th
and 8th, grades one through six.

A Thirty-three would seem to be correct.

Q Of your estimate of those 33 elementary students,

15 are going to be from the Birmingham area?

A Yes, that is my estimate. If you were familiar with
the large number of houses in that vicinity in the City 

Limits of Birmingham, I think you would understand.

Q In other words, would I be correct in saying
right now you have approved enrollment for 18 children 

from the Fairfield area, in the City of Fairfield?

A No, sir, because you are not considering the families 

who have declined to make a choice.

Q I said as of right now.

A My figure of 15 —

Q Based on your estimate?

A Would be based on September enrollment, I would think. 

Q In other words, those are not choices?
MR. BISHOP:

I believe the question is answered. I believe he 

said you were not including the enrollment of (72) some of 

those who did not exercise a choice form.



90

MR. WEINBERG:

I asked him if it was correct to say at the present 

time, as of today, based on the choices, there will be 18 

elementary students from the City of Fairfield in that 
school.

MR. BISHOP:

He has answered that.

MR. WEINBERG:

I haven't heard it. Will you repeat the answer.
A Re-phrase the question.

Q If based on your report we have right there, is the

total elementary grades one through 6 enrollment from the 

City of Fairfield in the Englewood Elementary School, 18 
students?

A These forms that have been approved, I am not prepared
to break those down.

Q Mr. Bishop just siad you answered the question, and
I didn't hear it.

A Your question is really confusing to me, Mr. Weinberg,
I am sorry.

Q How many students presently have made choices to

the Englewood Elementary School, these students living and 
residing in the City of Fairfield?

A We have approved 41. I do not have that broken down

(73) on the report as to where they live.



91

q In other words, you are not willing to say, comparing

your exhibit five and the report you submitted to this 

Court, living —  that the answer would be there are 18 

children living in the City of Fairfield now presently 

accepted in Grades 1 through 6 in the Englewood Elementary 
School?

A It is not that I am unwilling, I just do not have 

the information to break these figures down as to where 

the children live.

Q I am speaking of what you gave us, based on your 

estimate and realizing it is an estimate. Well, let's go 
on.

I would like to know, Mr. Nunn, if you could tell me 

how familiar with the order under which your board is operat­

ing. Have you read it?

A Yes.

Q And were you aware before Friday the only ground for 

rejecting children was overcrowding, except under exceptional 

circumstances?
A Yes, but I would like to comment on that. I would

assume the Court would know there would be other reasons

for disapproval or else they would not ask me to submit 

it to the Court.
(74) q why would you assme that?

A They asked me to submit the reason.



92

Q It was your understanding you could go ahead and

disapprove outside of overcrowding, with the approval of 
the Court?

A I am assuming that this has been approved,
TEE COURT :

It is in the court file. The Court hasn't passed 
on it yet.

Q Mr. Nunn, are the elementary schools in the State

of Alabama, as far as you know, going to be accredited soon? 

A There is no state-wide program on accreditment to 
elementary schools in the State of Alabama.

Q Will the elementary schools in the City of Fairfield

be accredited soon, or will there be standards by the state 
board?

A I don't know what the board will do.

Q Have you not received any notification?

A I think there have been some communications, but no
order or directions.

Q If I were to show you this which is a copy of the

policy and standards for accreditation of elementary schools, 

could you tell me whether you have ever seen a document like 
that before?

(75) MR. BISHOP:

Are the question with respect to accreditation 

addressed to elementary schools?



93

MR. WEINBERG:
That's right.

A I don't remember seeing this report.

Q Have you received a communication from Mr. Stone 
bearing on accreditation?

A I don't recall anything relating to instructions for 
accrediting elementary schools.

Q Are there any suggesting elementary schools would be 

accredited?

A I am sure they will be in due course of time, but 

there are no standards at present as there are for senior 
high schools.

Q I wasn't trying to equate them with standards for 

senior high schools, I was wondering if there any standards 

at all, no matter what they are according to, just existing 

that you know of?

A There are some standards. For instance, teachers

have to be properly certified. We have to follow a course 

of study which is pub1icshed by the state. Those are the 

two primary considerations.
Q Are you familiar at all with the standards used by 

the University of Alabama in their surveys of various 

school (76) districts?

A Probably.
Q Are you familiar with a suggested minimum number of



94

students and number of teachers per every elementary
school?

A I don’t know what those figures are.

Q Have you ever heard of standards of 175 children

per school, and one teacher for every grade?

A I don't recall.

Q You said previously there are seven teachers last

year and there will be seven this year or next year at 

Englewood school; is that correct?

A We haven't made any plans to change that.

Q How many grades are currently taught in the whole
school there?

A Are you still referring to Englewood?
A That's right.

Q Eight grades.

Q There are seven teachers?
A Yes, sir.

Q Does that seven teachers include the principal?
A Yes, he is a teacher-principal.

Q Is he a full-time teacher?
A Yes.

(77) Q How do you get seven teachers for eight grades? 

A What do you mean how do I get?

Q Is there ever a grade that is going without a

teacher?



95

A No.

Q How does it work?

A It means we have a grade with seven students and one

with six, one teacher will take both grades, a very common 
practice in Alabama.

Q I am speaking of the City of Fairfield. Do you do

that in any other elementary school in the City of Fairfield? 
A It has been done, yes.

Q Last year?

A No.

Q The year before?

A Not within the last few years.

Q The last five years?

A We have been very proud of that fact.

Q In other words, Englewood Elementary School is the 

only school existing that you are planning to combine two 

grades on one teacher?

A Yes, but that is not much of a point. The 7th and 
8th grades are departmentalized, and a teacher will teach 

English and social studies, and another will teach science
(78) and math.

Q Students in the 7th and 8th grades will get the same 

course at the same time?
A Not necessarily. The teacher can arrange her own

schedule.



96

Q How many students were in the 7th grade at Englewood
last year?

A I don't believe I have those figures. The enroll­

ment at the end of the school in the 7th grade was 14, and 
in the 8th Grade was 10.

Q How many choices have been made to those two grades
this year?

A Eight.

Q How many to the 7th and how many to the 8th?

A Six to the 7th and two to the 8th,

Q If there are no more choices, will you maintain those
grades for those students?

A Let me amend that statement. These are the number
that have been approved.

Q I understand,

A There may be some that have been disapproved.

Q No, I don't know that there were any children dis­
approved for enrollment at Englewood.

(79) A The answer is six and two.

Q If there are no changes in enrollment, and I mean

for those two grades, will you maintain those grades for 
that number of children?

A Yes; we will.

Q Do you remember giving a deposition in the trial of
this case two years ago?

A I didn't understand the question.

Q Do you recall giving a deposition in the trial of this



97

case two years ago?

A Yes.

Q Is there any other school in the Englewood system 
that has grades 1 through 8 in it?

A I don't understand your question about the Englewood 
system.

Q In the City of Fairfield School system that has 
grades 1 through 8 in it?

A No, but there was until a couple of years ago.
Q How long ago?

A A couple of years.

Q Two?

A A couple is two.

Q All right. How long ago was it that the 1 through

(80) 8 grade school stopped in the formerly white schools 
in the Fairfield system?

A i don't remember the exact year, but it was three or 
four years ago.

Q Sir, in August of 1965 you were asked in the white 
schools in Fairfield you use what is commonly referred 

to as the 6-3-3 system; is that correct, and you said, that 

is correct, we have just begun that system, only been in 

operation two years.

^ That would date back then to 1963.

Q Right. Now, you were also asked, sir, about the



98

advantages of the 6-3-3 system, and the question was;

"What was the reasons for changing from an 8-4 system to 

a 6-3-3 system"? And your answer was; "We think it is 

better to keep children of the same age group together 

for shocial reasons because it is during the important 

adolescent period of their young lives, and it is felt 
their needs can best be administered to under such an 

organization"*

Do you still agree with that?

A Yes. I think that is ideal.

Q Do you think if there are no more than 2, 6 or 14

children in grades 7 and 8, where there are other junior 

high schools existing, you are keeping them grouped to­

gether (81) for social reasons, etcetera, that you said 

two years ago?

A In that particular school, yes, we keep them together.

That is why they are separated by grades.

Q Keep them together? Are you saying keep the two people

in the 8th grade together?

A Well, in the school business, you have to make the

best of what you have.

Q Sir, you —  is teacher-pupil ratio the most important

thing to you in your school administration?

A No,

Q What is?



99

A The qualifications of the teacher in the classrooms.

Q In other words, if you had a low pupil-teacher ratio, 
that would not necessarily be a good thing sometime, alone 
without any other factor?

A I think it would be an excellent thing for a teacher 
to have a small number of pupils.

Q First grade, second grade?

A Any grade you name.

Q What are the main advantages in education in the 
first four or five grades?

A Teaching children to communicate.
Q To whom?

(82) A To themselves and to others.

Q How many others? If you have three children in a 

grade, is that teaching them to communicate with others?

A They will be associated with others at various 

time during the day on the playground and in the lunch 
room.

Q Is that keeping children of the same age group to­
gether for social reasons?

A Yes; they are largely kept together by grades.

Q In other words, you are saying once again the system

you have presently, according to the basis made at Englewood 

Elementary School corresponds with all of the standards you 

have set up for good elementary education?

A Yes; I do. I think we are doing the best we can 

under the circumstances.



100

Q And what are the circumstances?

A Trying to establish community schools and at the

same time provide good educational opportunities for the 

youth.

Q How many openings in the other elementary schools,

based on school classification, do you have there at the 
present time?

A Would you mind facing me and asking the question?

I don't understand you.

(83) Q I said how many openings in the elementary schools 

in the Fairfield City system, all elementary schools in the 

City of Fairfield, based on choices made, or based on 

last year's enrollment, we will take it first based on 

choices made, do you have at this time?

A 1 do not have statistics how many teachers to answer

your question, I don't believe. I don't have building 

capacity.

Q Can you tell me how far below capacity was enrollment

in elementary schools at the end of last year, and how many 

openings you had, based on your capacity as determined by 

you?
A I don't understand what you mean by how many openings

I had.

Q Based on the capacity of the school, the school

has a capacity of 280 children, and there are 41 going, you



101

have so many openings left in that school. I don't want 

to get into filling any school up with children for you,

I just want to know if you are aware of those?

A I don't have that information.

Q Well, sir, I took the liberty of adding up some

figures, and you tell me if you can if this sounds too far 

out of line. I first allocated the capacity of Englewood

(84) Elementary School, then I subtracted the number of 

children enrolled last year in all of the elementary schools, 
including the enrollment in Englewood, but without using 

Englewood's capacity, and I came up with 459 openings at 

the close of the last school year. Does that sound far 
out of line?

A i really don't know where you got your figures.

Q I got my figures from the enrollment from your report

as submitted to the Court on June 13th, and the capacity 

as listed in the trial of this case.

MR. BISHOP:

I don't see the meaning of the figures unless you 

do so on an assumption that everybody that went to school 

last year isn't going to return.

Q Based on the choices made sofar, again without 

Englewood, there are 858 openings right now. Does that 

sound out of line?
A I just really don't know.



102

THE COURT:

We will take a 20 minute recess at this time. 

(Mid-morning recess)
MR. WEINBERG:

I would like to ask leave of the Court to suspend 

the questioinq of Mr. Nunn —

THE COURT:

The Court can't go on with this case indefinitely

(85) we have so many other matters.

MR. WEINBERG:

No, sir, but he is an expert in the field of school 

plants and education, and because of the rail strike, he 
has to make a plane.

THE COURT:

Are you about through with Mr, Nunn?
MR. WEINBERG:

I just have a few more questions.
MR. BISHOP:

Can we finish with him first.
THE COURT:

Let's finish with Mr. Nunn if we can.

B. VIRGIN NUNN

thereupon resumed the witness stand and testified further
as follows:



103

CROSS EXAMINATION-CONT'D .
BY MR. WEINBERG:

Q You testified the state tenure law required you to 

release some teachers under some circumstances; is that 
correct?

A I don't believe so. I believe I testified if teachers
were released certain things had to be prescribed to.

0 Is there any state law that prescribes giving of
funds based on average daily attendance?

A Well, the number of teacher units for a system is 

authorized —  which a system is authorized is based upon the 

average daily attendance of that system for the previous
(86) year.

Q Are you familiar with the Court order requirements 
as far as releasing teachers?
THE COURT:

About which?

MR. WEINBERG:

Pardon, sir.
THE COURT:

I didn't understand your question.

MR. WEINBERG:
I asked Mr. Nunn if he was familiar with this Court's 

order as far as letting teachers go.
A I believe that question was asked to me previously



104

and I indicated I was not aware of the fact that I had to 

report.

Q You previously testified you had read the Court's

decree and are familiar with it. Can you tell me, so we 

can narrow the question down, which parts you read and 

which parts you are familiar with?

A Of course, I read the entire Court order, but still

the human element can enter in,

Q I understand that.

A I don't have a photographic mind.

Q I understand. You recited percentage of Negroes in

formerly white schools; is that correct? I am not asking 

you right now what they are.
A I believe I stated 1 did not have the percentages for

(87) last year or the year before, We have an exhibit,

we were required to submit that information which showed 

the percentages for '65-'66, '66-'67.
q Didn't you say that there were 35 per cent or 30

something percent in Donald Elementary that were Negro 

students?
A That is for the year coming up.

q Can you tell me what significance that has as to

maintaining Englewood School?
A I don11 see any significance in those figures. Very

few of those are from the Englewood community. The majority



105

of them are from the Interurban Heights area.

Q Who is responsible for improving physical parts of 
the Englewood Elementary School?

A The Fairfield Board of Education.

Q And how much improvements have been made within the 
last two years, since the trial in August of '65?

A Normal routine maintenance, no major capital improve­
ments .

Q In other words, most things that were wrong, are 
still wrong?

A i don't believe I said that.

Q Well, what is a major capital improvement?

(88) A Normal maintenance of a building, we call 

it fair wear and tear, ordinary maintenance, breaking out 

of windows, and the breaking of a leg off a table, or 

knocking out a light globe, repairing a Venetian blind.
THE COURTS

Do you have trouble in all the schools with window 
panes being broken?

A That is a common problem, Judge.
THE COURT s

How much does it cost the Fairfield School System 

to replace broken panes on windows?

A I would say our maintenance repair bill for windows 

alone during the last two weeks in August, and that is when



106

we concentrate on windows, would approximate three or 
four hundred dollars.

THE COURT:

It is not confined to just Englewood?

A No, sir, the the nine schools in the system.

Q How many schools in the system have clogged urinals
in the boys' bath room?

A I only know of one.

Q How long has that condition existed?

A Oh, at least a couple of years.

Q How many schools in the system have doors missing

from the stalls in the girls' rest room?
A I don't know.

(89) Q Do you know if Englewood does?

A No, sir, I don't know.

Q Do you know whether Englewood had doors missing from

the stalls of the girls' rest room two years ago?

A I don't know the answer to your question. In school

building construction they are not necessarily putting 

doors on the stalls to the girls' rest rooms.

Q How would you describe the physical condition of

the Englewood Elementary School?

A I would say the building is in a fair state of re­

pair, and it would be in much better state of repair by 

the 1st of September, comparable to any other schools in



107

this same county, I think it is comparable.

Q How about those in the city school system, sir?

A Well, I can assure that the city has school buildings
that date back to the turn of the century.
Q I understand that.

A Whereas this building is of modern construction; it 

is fire-proof, and that building is approximately between 
25 and 30 years of age.

Q Is there any other elementary school that was built 
before Englewood?

A Yes, the Robinson Elementary School, one building of
(90) it was built before Englewood.

Q Is that also a Negro school attended entirely by
Negroes?

A Yes, sir.

MR. WEINBERG:

In the interest of time, I am just going to stop 
with Mr. Nunn.

RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. BISHOP:

Q Mr. Nunn, you identified, I believe on Friday, two
documents showing the percent of integration by grades in 

1965-1966 and 1966-1967 school years. Are those the 

documents you identified either on or off the record?

A Yes.



108

Q This on the top column, PWS and PNS, what does that 
mean?

A Predominately white school or predominately Negro 
school.

MR. BISHOP:

We would ask that these be made a part of the record 
as exhibits next in order being 12 and 13 with number 12 

being the 1965-1966 and 13 being 1966-1967.

(Defendants' Exhibits 12 and 13 
received in evidence)

MR. BISHOP:

That is all I have.

MR. WEINBERG:

I have nothing else at this time.

(91) (Witness excused)
MR. WEINBERG:

I would like to call Dr, James Woofter.

JAMES WOOFTER
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WEINBERG:

Q Will you state your full name, please?
A James Woofter.

Q What is your age, Dr. Woofter?
A Forty-eight,



109

Q And where is your residence, please?

A Silver Springs, Maryland,

Q By whom are you employed?

A United States Office of Education, Department of 
Health, Education & Welfare.

Q How long have you been employed by them?
A Since December, I95O .

Q And in what capacity were you employed since 1950?

A First as School Facilities Survey Representative in 

the Division of School Houses, and since —  and second, as 

Field Representative in the School System in Atlanta, 

and third as Regional Representative of School Systems in 

Charlotteville, Virginia, and since 1962, Division of (92) 
Schools, Field Branch, Washington.

Q What are your present duties?

A We coordinate the facilities of school staffs situated 
in nine regional offices in the United Stat es whose respon­

sibility is to submit such reports and information as the 

division may need to make determinations under Public Laws 

874 and 175 for the construction and operation of school 

facilities in some 4300 applicant districts in the United 

States.

Q What is involved in making those surveys and reports?

A This involves visiting school districts, going

through buildings, analyzing buildings, making reports on



110

capacity, making reports on conditions of buildings, any

information of this type.

Q Did you have any job in the school area prior to your
employment in 1950?

A I was for about four months with the New York State

Commission on school buildings. Prior to that for about a 

year I was with the Institute of Field Studies, Teachers 

College, Columbia university.

Q Will you state your educational background?

A AB Degree, Glenville State College, Glenville, West

Virginia; Masters Degree, University of Alabama, Doctor of

(93) Education, Colubmia University.

Q Will you tell the Court in what area your Master's

Degree was in?

A General School Administration.

Q Are you familiar with the texts and current professional

writings in this area?

A I am.

Q What professional organizations exist in the area of

school planning?

A Primarily the National Council of School System

Construction.

Q Are you a member of that organization?

A I am.



Ill

MR. WEINBERG:

Sir, I would like to qualify Dr. Woofter as an 

expert in this field.

THE COURT:

I think you have probably covered the area suf­

ficiently.
Q Dr. Woofter, where were you this morning?

A Beginning at approximately 8:15, I was at the

Englewood School.
0 And what were you doing there?
A I went there to make an evaluation of the building

and the site.
(94) Q On what basis did you evaluate the building and 

the site?
A I evaluated those on the basis —  what is known in

the trade as Lynne-McCormick Rating Form. It was a form 

developed for the purpose of rating school facilities.

Q Is that the same rating system that was used when

another member of the United States Office of Education 

rated the school system in the City of Fairfield in 1965?

A it is.
Q Now, at that time we heard percentages given --

percentage ratings given to all the schools in the City 

of Fairfield and they appear at page 129 of the transcript 

of that trial proceeding. At that page it lists Englewood



112

School as being rated 35.

MR, BISHOP:

I have transcript page 129 and I don't find it.

THE COURT:

You are looking at the printed transcript and he 

is looking at the court reporter's transcript.

MR. BISHOP:

We move to exclude what it shows.

THE COURT:

That is already in evidence. It has been admitted 

here. I don't know what you propose to ask him about.

MR. WEINBERG:

What the rating is today.

(95) A I gave the school a rating of 21.6.

Q How many schools have you rated according to this

system?
A I couldn't make any estimate of that, Mr. Weinberg.

I have been doing this since 1948. I would not have any 

way of estimating it, many schools, but I wouldn't even 

assign a number.

Q What was the lowest school, since 1948, the lowest

rating given to any city school?

MR. BISHOP:

Just a second. We object to that. I don't see the

materiality.



113

THE COURT:

What city school? You mean anywhere in the United 
States?

MR. WEINBERG:
Yes.

MR. NEWTON:

I think it has the same relevance -- 
THE COURT:

Overrule the objection.

A The lowest school I can recall rating, and here I 

am drawing on my memory, would be around 22 per cent. That 
was a school in Natchez, Mississippi.

Q Now, you said you gave Englewood a rating of 21.6 
per cent?

A That is what I did this morning.

Q Could you tell us what you looked at, and how you 

^96) classified those things to get that rating?

A I went through the entire building, each room, and 

each room I rated in the building on the basis of its size, 

the building structure, the heat and ventilating system, 

the fire protection system, artificial illumination, 

electric system, toilets and water supply, storage, class 
rooms, general rooms, administration rooms, and special rooms. 

Q What is a special room?
A Special rooms are rooms for arts and crafts, and



114

shopwork and homemaking, and things of this nature,

Q What did you find there?

A I did not find any.

Q None?

A No, sir.

Q Can you tell me, Dr. Woofter, if special rooms are

generally known to appear in schools containing junior high 

school grades?

A Yes, sir; they are.

Q For what purpose?

A They are provided to enable the student to have a

diversified curricular opportunity, to take basic courses 

in science, elementary industrial arts, elementary home 

economics, and things of this nature before going to high 
school.

(97) Q Now, you listed several factors that you looked

at. Could you briefly describe the condition of each 
factor?

A Yes. We looked at the site. Mr. -- I don't recall

his name. There the gentleman is sitting there. What is 
is name?

Q Is it Carswell?

A Mr. Cardwell, made an approximation of the site, the 

size of the site, estimating it to be in the neighborhood 

of 1.7 acres. It fronts on an alley. It faces on an 

alley, or practically -- rather the school building



115

practically abutts on an alley in one instance, and it is 

a few feet from the street on the other side. It probably 

stands 40 to 50 feet from a third street of some type which 

is near an open water ditch.

Then there is a small play area at the other end of 

the building. The site is completely unimproved. I 

didn't see any evidence of any facilities on the site 

other than a few swings and things of that nature. The site 

is unduly small. The national recommends a school site of 

10 acres for an elementary school, plus one acre for each 

100 pupils enrolled.

The building structure is concrete block. It is 

broekn up somewhat in design. You have one unit of four

(98) classrooms separated by a covered walkway, and another 

unit of four classrooms and a cafeteria and two toilet 

facilities and a storage room.
The corridors are in a zig-zag pattern in one unit.

Heating is by panel ray units in the classrooms, that 

isn't gas fired. They don't tend to distribute heat evenly 

over the room, in my judgment. I think it is sort of like 

the old first heating unit —
MR. BISHOP:

We object unless he made some check of it.

MR. WINEBERG:

Pardon?



116

MR. BISHOP:

I don't know how he could determine how they heat 

if he hasn't tried it.

THE COURT;

Overrule the objection.

A The building appears to be ventilated by window

ventilation only. There is no mechanical controls on 

ventilation.

Fire protection,, there are two soda ash fire ex­

tinguishers in each unit, making four in total that I saw. 

There is no panic hardware on the doors. I saw no signs 

indicating where the exits were, and the students would 

have to know where they were. I did not see any fire 

hose type of protection or anything of that nature.

Artificial illumination, I thought, was very weak.

(99) This was compounded by the fact that floors were dark, 

and the ceilings were dirty and the rooms generally were not 

too kempt. There was a shortage, I think, of the amount 

of light fixtures you would need to have adequate light 

in the classrooms.

Q Excuse me. Previously while you were out, the de­

fendants introduced some photographs of the school structure 

as it existed two years ago. These are defendants' exhibits 

six through -- these are plaintiffs' exhibits six through 

nine, and defendants' exhibits seven through 11. Could you



117

look at these photographs and let me ask you what they 
represent?

A This is a classroom. You can probably see some of 

the discoloration in the ceiling here. Also we noted in 

going through that the ceiling has a tendency to sag. In 

some cases the molding yas falling off from the edge of 

the ceilings. This is the classroom equipment; this is the 

teacher's desk, this is the blackboard, tack board, the 

teacher's storage cabinet.

Q Does this picture represent the school as you saw it 

this morning, a class room as you saw it this morning?

A In general, yes.

Q All right.

(100) A This is the boys' toilet. These are three

stand-up toilets.

Q Could the record show Dr. Woofter is looking at De­

fendants' Exhibit 11.

A Two of these standing urinals are concreted out which 

has the effect of leaving only one standing urinal available 

for use. There are five of these water closet stools only 

four of which have water closets in them, one is vacant.

This is a lavatory which has only cold water. This is a 

center floor drain, this is a ceramic tile floor. This 
light fixture has no bulb and no globe. The only light 

available is through windows. This room is ventilated by



118

window ventilation only which is an unsanitary thing. These 

walls are generally unkempt and not very clean. This is 
unsanitary.

MR. BISHOP:

We object to going through pictures. They speak 

for themselves, building up a long record and further 
expense.

THE COURT:

Overrule the objection.

Q Will you please read the exhibit number?

A Exhibit 10 is the lunch room part of the cafeteria. 

This is the serving line, these are the seats, this is 

a heating unit up here. These are refrigerators, that is

(101) your ice cream stands. This is just a common ordinary 
cafeteria.

Q Is that substantially as it is now?

A i would say it is, yes.
Q OK.

A This is a double classroom. This partition is fold­

ing, and can be drawn together to provide two classrooms, 

This piano was not in the classroom. It was in the 

cafeteria this morning. This is, in general, the same type 

of classroom we saw, and this is Exhibit 9, this is the 

same type classroom we saw in Exhibit 8,



119

This is Exhibit 7 so this shows the school, I believe 

this is the portion facing on what was defined to me as 

Court G. I asked the name of the street, and was told it 

was Court G. That is all I can define it as. These are 

ventilating units for the panel ray heating units in the 

building. These windows here in the classrooms, I would 

say, comprise about 50 to 55 or 60 per cent of the window 

wall area. There is no -- I stepped this off, I think it 

is roughly 24 feet from the edge of the street to the edge 

of the building. There is a little bit of a jog here so 

that you have a little bit more area from the street to 

the second unit, and 6, this is an open water ditch.

(102) Q Can the record show Dr. Woofter is pointing 

to the right edge of Defendants' Exhibit 7.

A Do you want me to look at these pictures.

Q Only if you can find something in the plaintiffs'

exhibits.
A This is also the right edge from another location.

Q Plaintiffs' Exhibit 9, only if there is something

that is different from what you saw this morning.

A This is the same thing, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 8, this 

shows the sidewalk leading into the two units, they are 

separated by a covered walkway.
This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7. This shows the small 

play area which is adjacent to the —  I would think this



120

is the cafeteria area. These are some small swings over 

here,,

This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 6 which is just a street 

view of the building showing the distance of about 24 feet 

from Court G to the edge of the building.

Q Is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 6 substantially as you saw

the building?

A Yes; I would say it was.
Q Now, there is quite a number of broken windows there.

A That is true. I counted the number of broken windows

in the first three classrooms and then I quit counting the

(103) number. I also noticed the windows and the exit 

doors from the corridors were broken, and in at least 

two instances the corridor doors were boarded up with what 

looked like three-quarter inch plywood.

Q Could you comment on whatever areas you haven't

covered sofar? I think you have gone through the fire 

protection.

A Going down the list, electric system. We looked at

that and saw no public address system. We noted usually 

one wall receptacle in each classroom. This was all they 

had available for the use of audio-visual aids and 

things of this kind if they had them to use.
Toilets and water supply, I think we have talked 

about toilets. I noticed no hot water in the building



121

except in the cafeterial.

There were no pupil lockers as such in the corridors. 

There were some room having wooden lockers in them,, others 

had just a storage area across the back with hooks for 

students to hang their coats on.

Classrooms, I think we talked about that. The floors 

were dark, ceilings discolored, the walls were dirty, 

illumination was poor, the artificial lighting was weak, 

and the light was much too small for school rooms.

(104) The general rooms, there just practically weren't 

any general rooms, you might as well say, except the 

cafeteria.
Administration rooms, there was a small general office 

and small principal's office separate from the general 

office by a glass panel.
This is all the area I noticed. There was no vault 

storage anywhere in the building to prevent loss of students' 

records.
Q Could you comment on the extent of improvement s that

would have to be made to bring this school up to what you 

use as an acceptable elementary school?

A I wouldn't know how to start on that.

MR0 BISHOP:
We object to it, then, may it please the Court.



122

THE COURT:

Overrule the objection.

A You would probably have to -- well, first, you would 

have to decide what you are going to use it for. What are 

you going to continue to use it for, combination elementary- 

junior high school? You would have, if you are going to 

use it for junior high school, you would have to build 

additional facilities. You would have to build additional 

facilities to use it for elementary. It has no library, 

no multi-purpose (105) room, no medical facilities, it has 

no teacher rooms, it has only two toilets and the are 

rather unhandy for a few or some parts of the building.

You would have to relight the building, do something to 

the floor, put asphalt tile or put something on the con­

crete floor to increase your light. You would have to see 

that -- you would have to do a major remodeling -- you 

would have to do something with your blackboards. You 

would have to do a major remodeling job on the school, and 

how much that would cost, I wouldn't even make an estimate.

Q Did you judge the capacity of the rooms?

A Yes. I rated the building as having an optimum capa­

city of 200 pupils. The rooms are, in general 25 by 75 

feet in size. In an emergency capacity, I would rate it as 

being 240.

Q What about the size of the corridors?



A The corridors were narrow. Some parts of the

corridors were 7 feet in width, and some were six feet.

If you had pupil lockers in the corridors this would 

further restrict the size of the corridor. They are such 

now you couldn't put any in them.

Q Under what circumstances would you put lockers in

the corridor?

(106) A This is normally where you put lockers for
students„

Q For elementary students?
A Yes.

Q What would be the effect, in your opinion, of main­

taining a school such as this —  you said it was a junior 

high section, is that correct?

A I am speaking from hearsay on this. I did not see

enrollment records, I am speaking now from what has been 
told me. My understanding is from some figures I saw that 

they had —  that the school did maintain grades 1 through 

8 last year. I am told they expect to maintain —

MR. BISHOP:

May we inquire who gave him this information, I 

understand it is hearsay.
A i got that from Mr. Weinberg. I did not have any

school records available to me, I didn't have time to look 

that up this morning.



124

Q Do you remember from those records I showed you how 

many students were enrolled for grade 7 and 8?
A Last year?

Q On the basis for this year, the choice forms?

A The figures you showed me were six in grade 7.
MR. BISHOP :

We object on the ground that the information pre­

vious transmitted on that disclosed by this record (107) 
is in error.

MR. WEINBERG:

The enrollment in grades 7 and 8?

MR. BISHOP:

The information you gave this witness is in error 

with respect to grades 1 through 8. We object to any 

further information you might have communicated to the. 
witness.

MR. WEINBERG:

Could you tell me again what information you are 
objecting to, the number of years?
MR. BISHOP:

I am objecting to the last question you propounded 
to the witness.

THE COURT:

Sustain the objection. Any information he got from 

you would be secondhand and hearsay.



MR. WEINBERG:

May we see the Court's copy of the report on the 

choice period. Would you agree this is the —
MR. BISHOP:

I don’t know. We haven't offered it in evidence.
MR. WEINBERG:

It is hard to locate right now.

Q Dr. Woofter, these figures represent the number of 

pupils enrolled last year, and the number of choices made 

and choices accepted for enrollment last year.

A This is essentially the information you showed me,

I believe. As I stated a minute ago, my recall was there 

was six in the 7th grade and 2 in the 8th grade, and that 

(108) is what this shows. We have a total pupil enroll­
ment projected.
MR. BISHOP:

We object to what is projected, what his projected 

enrollment is because obviously the doctor isn't familiar 

with the number of persons who filed no choice forms.

A I am speaking only from this page.

MR. BISHOP:

We object.
THE COURT:

Sustained. It speaks for itself.
Q Could you tell us, please, from your information and



126

your familiarity with publications in the field, the 

effect of having this number of people enrolled in the 7th 

and 8th grades, and the number corresponding from the choices 

made sofar?
A It would have a number of effects, I should think.

One, it would be extremely costly to operate a school on 

that size enrollment spread through that many different 

grades.
Two, it would seem to me like the curricular offered, 

particularly for grades 7 and 8 would be very restricted 

due not only to the number of teachers required to offer 

the courses, but due to the lack of facilities in which to 

put them in. You have, it seems to me, restrictions in the 

advantages available to elementary school children, like 

the multi-purpose room, lack of play area, lack of library 

facilities, and this type of thing.
Q What about the enrollment in the elementary grades?

A The National School Council -- the National Council

of School House Construction in its publication, Planning 

School Plants, recommends that elementary schools have at 

least one teacher per grade, and preferably two; that 

minimum enrollment be somewhere near 300, that you have 

optimum enrollment as somewhere between 3 and 500. When 

you get above 500, you fail to gain anything for the 

economic advantages commensurate with the additional



127

educational disadvantages due to the sixe of the school.

It seems to me if you go much below 300 it is self- 

evident that you have to shorten your program or run into 

high economic costs due to the improvement in employment 

of teachers, maintenance and operational costs and so 
forth for a small enrollment.

MR, WEINBERG:

I have no more questions for this witness at this time. 

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. BISHOP:

Q Doctor, did I correctly understand you to say you

(110) are with the HEW, Health, Education and Welfare?

A Yes, sir, with the office of education with -- which 

is a sub-unit within the department.

Q Is your office audited or checked at any time by 
General Accounting Office?

A Yes. You have various programs throughout the 

government which are checked by the government accounting 
office.

Q Are the expenditures of your department checked by 

the accounting office?

A I would not be able to answer that question. I think 

the geneal accounting office primarily does auditing of 

Programs and not departments. I may be wrong.

MR- WEINBERG:
I object to this line of questioning unless we can



128

show the materiality.

MR. BISHOP;
We are going to connect it. I think it would be 

a matter in which the government either is or should be 

vitally interested in doing that, auditing the various 

expenses of the government, including this department and 

the Department of Justice.
A I would not be able to give you a definitive answer.

Q Who first contacted you with reference to making an

examination of the Englewood School?

A I was contacted by Mr. John Rosenberg.

(Ill) Q And when?
A Of the Department of Justice.

MR. WEINBERG;
I object to this whole line of questioning unless we 

can see the materiality.

THE COURT;
Overrule the objection.

Q When were you contacted?

A I will describe it this way --

Q Just tell me when you were contacted?

A 1 will have to describe it this way. I was in a

committee meeting on Friday afternoon. I come out of the 

committee meeting at 20 minutes till six. I returned to 

my office, and I was advised by my secretary I had had a



129

call from Mr. Rosenberg and would I please call him back, 

This was at 10 minutes past the closing hour of the office.

I called Mr. Rosenberg back immediately. What time Mr. 

Rosenberg placed his call to me originally, I don't know.

Q Your answer is —

A Sometime in the afternoon after 3 o'clock.

Q So the answer is sometime after 6 o'clock you first

talked to Mr. Rosenberg?

A I would say about 15 minutes till six.

Q Is Mr. Rosenberg connected with the Department of 

Justice?

(112) A I believe he is.

Q Did Mr. Rosenberg at that time tell you the Department 

of Justice had filed a petition and wanted to close the 

Englewood School and wanted you to come down over the 

weekend to make an examination or inspection of the school 

to support their position?
A Mr. Rosenberg asked me if I would come down and make 

an evaluation of the school in my capacity as a person 

trained to do this type of thing. He did not inform me 

of the purpose.
Q After you got the call on Friday afternoon, did you 

make your arrangements to make the trip down to Birmingham?

A Mr. Rosenberg made the arrangements.

Q When did you get into Birmingham?



130

A 10:20 on Sunday night.

Q Then you went out and made your inspection from about

8:15 until about what time?
A 9:20.

Q Before you left Washington and incurred this taxpayer
expense, before you came to Birmingham, before you went 

out there, did you call any representative of the Fairfield 

School System or make any inquiry as to what they planned 

to do with this school?

(113) A No, sir.

Q Did you ask Mr. Rosenberg, or did you ask counsel for

the government when you came down to Birmingham, did you 

ask them whether any of them had made any inquiry to deter­

mine what the Fairfield School Board planned to do with this 
school?

A No, sir.

Q Have you, until this time, made any inquiry as to

what plans were made for the Englewood School in Fairfield? 

A No, sir; I have not.
Q Well, is that the usual procedure that is followed by

your office?

A Yes, sir, I am requested in this type mission, sir,

to come down and perform a sevice, I have performed the 

service,

Q Well, do you not — ■



131

A I do not ask why I am asked to perform the service,

Q Did you inquire ■—  is it a usual and standard pro­

cedure when a representative of the Department of Justice 

calls you and asks you to check a school, is it your usual 

procedure to go ahead with that without making inquiry 
either of the department or the school system involved with 

respect to the plans of that school?

(114) A The procedure is, for this type of thing, that

the Department of Justice, through its channels, makes a 

request to the Department of Health, Education and Welfare 

which comes down through the bureau director, and the 

bureau director assigns someone within the bureau to come 
and do this job. There are a number of people in the bureau 

who are qualified to do this. I don't know when I am going 

to be assigned to do this work by the bureau, I may be 

assigned almost any time.

MR0 BISHOP:
Will you read the question back.

A And I do not make inquiries. I am directed by my 

superiors to come and do the work to make a physical plant 

rating. This is what I do.
Q Well, my question, Mr. Woofter, though is it the 

normal procedure of your agency of the government to do 

down and make a trip such as this without making any inquiry 

of the department or without any inquiry of any representa­

tive of the school board as to what the plans are with



132

respect to that particular school?

A In this kind of activity this is what we do,

Q Is that the normal operating procedure?

MR. WEINBERG:

We object to that.

A I think the normal operating procedure might very de­

pending (115) on the type of activity,

Q This activity of making inspections of the school at

the request of the department, do you make any such inquiry 

as I have suggested?

A I do not,

Q Prior to making any such inspections?

A I mean on this kind of assignment I am employed on

loan to the Department of Justice. I operate under their 

directions.

Q Sofar as you know, is that the customary procedure

followed in every case?

A I would assume it is,

Q Have you made any recent inspections of any other

schools in the Fairfield system, Birmingham system, or 
any other system in the county?

A No; I have not.

Q Have you made any other inspections of any schools in

the State of Alabama?
A I have not,



133

q How many schools have you inspected in Mississippi?

A I have worked in two counties in Mississippi.

Q How many schools did you inspect?

A I inspected the entire school system of Natchez. I

(116) think that is Natchez - Adams School District, and 

Amite County. I inspected the complete school plant.

Q Did you find any schools in the Natchez-Adams or 

in the Amite County School System that came up to what you 

would call standard?
A in -- Yes, I found some very good schools in those

systems, I sure did.
Q How many schools did you examine in the Natchez-Adams 

District ?

MR. NEWTON:
I object to that line of questioning.

MR. BISHOP:
I think the objection should be sustained, and I 

don't insist on it.

THE COURT:
Let's go ahead on to something involved here.

MR. BISHOP:
That is all we have with this gentleman,

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. NEWTON:
Q Dr. Woofter, I would like to ask you one or two

questions.



134

Assuming that this school intends to operate in

the year 1967-1968 grades 1 through 8 for approximately 34 

students, would you think this school, its present site, 

the conditions which you noticed today, would be adequate 
to do (117) that job?
MR. BISHOP:

We object to that; invades the province of the
Court.

THE COURT:

Approximately 34 students?
MR. BISHOP:

Contrary to the evidence; invades the province 
of the Court.

MR. NEWTON:

I don't think if is contrary. I assume every child 

will have to make a choice, that choice period has ended 

and the choices have been made. The superintendent has 

testified he intends to operate grades o through 8, and 

so far there are approximately 34 choices made.
THE COURT:

I count more than that. There are 41 in here that 
have been made,

MR. NEWTON:

Forty-one students, sir.



135

MR. BISHOP;

We object to that question because the undisputed 

testimony is the anticipated enrollment well exceed 120.

THE COURT;

I don't know what it is going to be. Of course,they 

are supposed to fill out the choice forms and they haven't 

done it. Why did not they do it?

MR. NEWTON;
They didn't do it, but I think we can only anticipate 

what they have done. Every student was required to make 

a choice, and the choice period is over, (118) and 41 
students have made a choice. If school was opening today 

we would have 41 students.

MR. BISHOP*
We have 120 people that have to be accounted for.

MR. NEWTON:

Maybe none of those 120 want to go to Englewood.

THE COURT:

They would have had to make a choice to some other 

school. They apparently haven't made a choice and the 

decree provides for that. They will have to go to the 

bottom of the line.

MR. NEWTON:
We don't know where they are going to school, but 

right now we have 41 people at Englewood School.



136

THE COURT:

Go ahead with the interrogation,

Q Could that school adequately serve 41 people in grades

1 through 8 in the condition which you have testified about 

today?

MR. BISHOP;

We object,

THE COURT;

Overrule the objection,

Q Could it?

A Not in my judgment.

Q One other question, Dr. Woofter. Is that school

adequate to serve 200 students grade 1 through 8 in its 

present condition?

(119) A In my judgment, no, sir.

Q Sir, is that school adequate as a combination

elementary school and junior high school for a large number 

of students at this time?
MR. BISHOP;

I object to that question.

MR. NEWTON;

That is very material.

THE COURT;

Overrule the objection.



137

MR. BISHOP:

Except.

A No, sir.
MR. NEWTON:

I believe that is all.

MR. BISHOP:

No further questions.

MR. WEINBERG:

No further questions.

THE COURT:

All right, you may come down.

(Witness excused)

MR. NEWTON:

Mrs, Jordan,

JANIE MAE JORDAN

being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR .NEWTON:

Q State your name, please, ma'am.
A My name is Janie Mae Jordan.

Q Where do you live?

A 5408 Avenue I, Vinesville.
(120) q Mrs. Jordan, how many school-age children do 

you have?
A Three.



138

Q What are their names, and what grade are they in?

A I have Walter Earl Jordan.

Q What grade is Walter in?

A He was promoted to the 12th, and I have a girl,

Loraine Jordan,

Q What grade is Loraine in?

A 10th.

Q All right,

A And 1 have another boy, Dwight Jordan.

Q What grade is Dwight in?
A 9th.

Q Have you exercised, during the month of May, choice

for all three of these children to schools in Fairfield?

A Yes; I have.

Q What choice did you exercise for your son Walter?

A I exercised to go to Fairfield Industrial High School.

Q Fairfield Industrial High School is at this time a

hundred per cent Negro school; is that correct?

A Yes, sir.

Q Now, have you heard from the Board of Education

about Walter's transfer to that school?

(121) A No; I haven’t.

Q Did you make that transfer at the same time you may

have made one for your daughter Loraine?

A Yes, sir.



139

Q Did you hear from hers?
A Yes, sir.

Q What did the board say as relates to Loraine?

A The Board said Loraine would not be accepted because
she was in the Birmingham District.

Q Loraine has traditionally for the last year or two

gone to a previously all white school; is that right?
A Yes, sir.

Q Did you make a choice for your son Dwight?
A Yes.

Q Where did you request Dwight go to school?

A Fairfield Interurban Junior High School.

Q Interurban is a hundred percent Negro school?
A Yes, s ir.

Q Have you heard from the board of education with --
from Dwight's application?
A No, sir.

Q Out of the three children, two of which want to attend

previously and currently Negro schools, one of which wanted

(122) to attend a previously all white school, the only 

one you received an answer from the board of education on 

was one you requested a previously all white school?

A Yes, sir.

Q Now, Loraine is currently and has curently attended

the same -- Loraine currently is attending the Fairfield



140

Jr. High School; is that correct?

MR. BISHOPs

Don't lead her too much. I object to it as leading. 

THE COURT:

Sustained,

Q Where did Loraine attend school last year?

A Fairfield Jr. High School.

Q Was Fairfield Jr. High School a previously all white

school?

A Yes, sir.

Q Where did Loraine attend school year before last?

A Fairfield Jr. High School.

Q And that is the same school you testified was a pre­

viously all white school?

A Yes, sir,

Q During and at the time you submitted choice forms

for all three of your children to Fairfield schools —

A Yes, sir.
(123) Q — - Loraine, who requested a previously all

white school was the only student who was denied?

A Yes.
Q All of your children live with you in the Birmingham

part of Vinesville; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.



141

MR. NEWTON %

I believe that is all.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. BISHOP:

Q You live and have you lived for the past several years
at 5408 Avenue 1, Birmingham?
A Yes.

Q Do you understand if you received an application and 

choice form and received no response, it would be approved 

or disapproved, or what is your understanding?

A I assumed it would be approved.

Q What is it you are complaining about, or are you 
complaining about anything?

A Yes; I am complaining Loraine wasn't accepted to go
back to the Fairfield school.

Q Is that what you are complaining about?
A Yes.

Q Who contacted you with reference to the complaint?

(124) A The complaint?

Q Yes, who contacted you about it?
A Well, I received a letter from Mr. Nunn that she 

wasn’t eligible for going back to the school.

Q You mean was not eligible to go back to the Fairfield

Jr. High School?

A Fairfield High School this year,

Q At the time you.filed your application —  did you file

an application for Loraine Jordan?



142

A Yes , sir.

Q Did you sign it?

A Yes, sir.

Q And what did you do with it?

A A choice form was taken to Loraine and given to the
teacher.

Q You gave it back to Loraine?

A That's right,

Q And at the time you filed that form, and at the

present time, you live in the City of Birmingham?

A That's right, yes, sir.

Q Have you filed any application to attend any

Birmingham school?

A No, sir.

(125) Q Have you made any application on behalf of 

Loraine to attend any school in Birmingham?

A No, sir.

Q I understand you don't have any complaint about any­
thing pertaining to Walter Earl or Dwight?

A That is the school they wanted to complete.

Q You don't have any complaint at all?
A No, sir.

Q And your only complaint is with respect to Loraine?
A That's right.

Q You filed no application to have her go to any

Birmingham school?



143

A No, sir,

MR. BISHOPi

That is all,

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NEWTON:

Q Did anybody ever tell you that they would not accept

your child»df it was a Negro school you chose?

A No, sir,

Q Were you expecting an answer on those applications?

MR. BISHOP:
We object.

THE COURT:

Does the decree require an answer except where it is 

denied?

(126) MR. BISHOP:

No, sir,

MR. NEWTON:
I understand that. I am assuming this witness is 

not familiar with the Court's decree.

THE COURT:
I don’t think it requires an answer except where 

they deny the application, then they have to give notice. 

MR. BISHOP:
That is the policy that the board has pursued. It 

has given no answer in any case except a denial.



144

MR. NEWTON;

I am wondering, your Honor, and the only reason 
for that question was simply this, as of this time 

since the Court order, and I am aware of the fact that 

it does not require an answer and none has been give, 

and of course, I personally did not know myself until I 

arrived today that no news was good news, I didn't know 

that. I am wondering if this witness knew her children 

were accepted, I wonder if she knew where they were going 
to school next year,

MR. BISHOP;

Let's find out if she asked anybody, like this man 

that came down from Washington and wasted all of this tax 
money,

Q Mrs. Jordan, do you know whether your sons, Walter
and Dwight were accepted in any school?
MR. BISHOP;

We object to that.

(127) THE COURT;

You haven't received any notice, and you don't 

know whether they have been accepted or not, but you 

haven't heard from the people.
A No, sir.

THE COURT;

All right.



145

Q All three of your children live in Birmingham,

don't they?

A All three of them.

MR. NEWTON:

I believe that is all.

MR. BISHOP:
No further questions.

(Witness excused)

MR. NEWTON:
The plaintiffs rest.

MR. BISHOP:

Mr. Caldwell, please.
HENRY H. CALDWELL, JR.

being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MRo BISHOP:
Q Please state your name, and in what business or

profession you are engaged, and your address?

A Henry H. Caldwell, Jr., an architect. My address
is 15 South Plaza, Fairfield, Alabama, Zip Code 35064.

Q Mr. Caldwell, how long have you been engaged in your

profession as an architect?
(128) A Twelve years now I have been practicing as an

individual„
Q During that period of time or a portion of that time,



146

have you served as the official architect of the Fairfield 
School Board?
A I have.

Q Are you familiar with the Englewood School?
A Yes, sir,

Q Do you hold any positions in an official capacity 
of the City of Fairfield?

A Yes, sir, Chairman of the Fairfield Planning and
Zoning Board,

Q How long have you been engaged in that capacity?

A Sir, as chairman for approximately three years,
and as a member for about six years, I would say,

Q Mr, Caldwell, are you familiar, both in your

capacity as architect for the Fairfield School Board, 

and in your capacity as Chairman of the Planning Board, 
with the Englewood School?

A Yes; I am,

Q How long have you been familiar with the school?

A I have been familiar with the school and general

area ever since 1 have lived in Fairfield,

(129) Q In your opinion, what is the reproduction cost 
of that Englewood School?

A Approximately $150,000.

Q In your opinion, what would it cost them to put

that school in good condition at the present time?



147

A I would say it would probably be anywhere from 15
to $20,000, or maybe more.

Q By that I mean above average school?

A That would be raising it up to above average school.
Q About $15,000?
A Yes, sir.

Q Now, as Chairman of the Fairfield Board, and as

architect, are you familiar with any plans for the 

Englewood School, and the area immediately surrounding 

that school; and if so, briefly state for the Court and 

the record what they are, the status of such plans and 
program?

A For a number of years it has been recognized the

Englewood section was a blighted section, that there 

are approximately over 90 per cent of the housing in there 

is sub-standard. There are some bad conditions such as a 

tar ditch in addition to the sub-standard houses that have 

need to be corrected or torn out or some disposition made, 
or brought up to living standards, because currently very 

few of the (130) houses in that section now are minimum 

code, house code, for the City of Fairfield.

Q Has any action been taken with respect to eliminating 

this condition that you have described in the area imme­

diately surrounding the Englewood School?

A Yes, sir. This at one time was — • a number of years 
ago ~



148

Q Please bring us up to date.

A There has been a considerable amount of discussion 

with the Housing and Urban Department in Atlanta concern­

ing making this into an urban renewal area. This has been 

discussed, like I say, ever since I have been in Fairfield. 

Q Has an application been filed with the housing

urban renewal to make this an urban re—development project? 

A It has either been filed or is in preparation. They

are working on this. We have had a number of interviews,

I have made a couple of trips to Atlanta to discuss with 
them.

Q Have the plans been formulated?
A Yes, s ir.

Q Has the application been prepared or in the process
of being completed and filed?
A Yes.

(131) Q Have you received any commitments, or in­
dication of commitment from Housing Urban Re—development 
Agency?

A To my knowledge the City of Fairfield has received 

an allocation of 250 dwelling units to be constructed within 
the Fairfield Area.

Q Mr. Caldwell, do those plans for urban development •—

first, has it been approved by the Fairfield Council?
A That I can't answer,



149

Q Have you had your public hearing in Fairfield?
A I can't answer that.

Q Does this plan for urban re-development of this area
include the Englewood School?

A It includes the Englewood School, yes, sir.

Q And upon approval of this plan, would most houses

in the area and the Englewood school be removed?

A They would, sir.

Q Is the plan contingent and conditioned upon the re­

location of the houses within the area?

A Re-location of the families within the area, yes, sir.

THE COURT:
The new houses would not be in this area?

A That has not been determined, your Honor, what will

happen. What will happen is the City of Fairfield will 
make (132) an application for an urban renewal arrange­
ment. The City of Fairfield has taken the position before 

anything would be done on this, of course, there has to 

be a public hearing, we would have to have the definite 

approval of the Citizens' Advisory Committee to review 

the plans and everything on this. After everything was 

decided that this was the area we have already tentatively 

decided on the boundries for our urban renewal project, 

then the whole area will be gone in and cleaned out. The 

government says before you go in and clean out an area, they



150

will have to have positive plans for the disposition of
the residents in that area,

Q Have those plans previously been formulated and are
they in the process of being accomplished?

A They have been previously formulated. They are still

in the process of being accomplished, to my knowledge. We 
have received a definite allocation of 250 units.

Q In your opinion, would it be feasible or prudent

for a school board to spend $15,000 of taxpayers money 

in view of the immense work plan of the Englewood school?
A No, sir.

Q Did anybody from the Justice Department contact you

or any of your subordinates with respect to the plans for 
the Englewood School?

(133) A No, sir. The only one that has contacted 
me was Mr. Virgil Nunn,

Q Has anybody from the HEW contacted you?
A No, sir.

Q How long, in your opinion, will it take you to re­

locate the families within this area and to accomplish 
the plan you have described?

A it can take anywhere from one to two years.

Q In your opinion, is the Englewood School suitable

and adequate in every respect to accommodate the pupils 

who have attended the Englewood School for that period of
time?



151

MR. WEINBERG;

We object to that.

THE COURT:

I will sustain the objection.

Q From the building standpoint, from the safety stand­

point, architecturally and sanitation standpoints?

A Basically, the school meets the requirements as set 

up by the State of Alabama for school construction.
MR. NEWTON:

Same objection.

THE COURT:

Do you know those requirements?

A I have part of them here, your Honor, and I have

been doing schools and have had them approved by the state 

building commission and by the State Department of Educa­

tion. I am architect also for the Jefferson County Board 
of Education (134) as well as for the Fairfield School 

Board.

THE COURT:

Overrule the objection.

MR. BISHOP:
That is all we have. Thank you, Mr. Caldwell.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. NEWTON:
Q Mr. Caldwell, at one time you and I, I believe,



152

served on the Citizens Advisory Committee to which you 
referred on your direct examination?
A Yes, sir.

Q Is it a fact that the Citizens Advisory Committee

as of this date still has not now approved the plan as far 

as re-location, and that is one of the problems you are 
having, re-locating these families?

A Re-location is to be considered, yes,

Q As a matter of fact, the rules as required by the

At1ants Regional Office state you have to re-located these 
people in the City of Fairfield?

A That has not been determined,

Q As a matter of fact, are you familiar with the fact

that the mayor of the City of Fairfield a few weeks ago 

passed a notice to these people in this area asking them 

to sign this form saying they would not be -- they would 

not object (135) to being re-located elsewhere?
A I am not familiar with that,

Q I would like to ask you if, in fact, the proposal

to the Atlanta Regional office has not been refused, and 
a new proposal has to be re-submitted?

A I am not familiar with the City of Fairfield's
operation as far as the status goes,

Q What is the City of Fairfield doing with that part

of Englewood that will be equally as blighted in the City 
of Birmingham?



153

A You were present, and are still a member of the

committee and you are aware of the fact that the only 

thing we have been concerned about in that part is that the 

City of Birmingham —  in the City of Birmingham, was that 

there was a preliminary discussion with the City of 

Birmingham officials concerning the annexation of that por­

tion there into the City of Fairfield in order to have a 

homogeneous demolition plan of the whole area.

Q Mr. Caldwell, would you say or would not you say 15

to $20,000 in order to put that school in a better than 

average shape is a very, very moderate figure on that 

school as it stands this morning?

A No,* I don't think so.

(136) Q Would that school, with $15,000 be anywhere near 

Donald Elementary School.

A The main thing that that school needs is a little

elbow grease.

Q What do you mean by that?

A i mean some people that are in the school taking

care of it with some soap and water.

Q You want the students to be the janitors?
A The main thing wrong with that school as it stands

right now is the mis-use by the people that are using the 

school, it is abused, dirty, filthy walls that the school 

does not put on, dusting of the light fixtures. That is 

why we don't get any lights is because the fixtures are 

dirty.



154

Q I understand that. Why is it that none of the Negro

schools get their grass cut and all the white schools do? 
THE COURT;

I don't believe he is qualified to answer that.
MR. NEWTON;

He knew all about who dirties the walls and whether 
there are bulbs.

THE COURT:

I understand him to say there has been poor house­
keeping.

Q What about that unsanitary ditch; should they cover 
that up?

(137) A Yes, sir. That is what we are trying to take 
care of with the urban renewal.

Q What about those urinals that have been cemented up 
and what should they do with those?

A Actually, now that you have brought that up, your 

Honor, generally when we go into planning a school, the 

urinals and number of water closets are specific require­

ments set up by the state, for every so many students 

you need a urinal. Generally, if there is a student 

boy of say a hundred students, in our planning we generally 

say half are boys and half are girls. If we have a hundred 

students we will see how many water closets we need, and 

the state says for every 50 boys you nead one water closet.



155

You have four water closets. The state says for every 
40 boys you need one urinal. Actually, we have one 

urinal in operation, and two are clogged up because slag 
was put into the toilet.

For the lavatories, the state says for every 60 
boys you need one lavatory and the boys toilet we 
presently have one lavatory.

Q Mr. Caldwell, may I interrupt you just one moment. 

How long has that slag remained there, do you know?

A I don't know. The only thing I can tell — -
Q Could this mean —

(138) MR, BISHOP:

Let him finish his answer.
THE COURT:

He said he didn't know.

Q You went this morning, like the expert who just left,

for the first time in a number of years; is that right?
A Yes, sir.

Q As an architect, did it look like it was just

recently done?

A No; it wasn't.

MR. NEWTON:

I believe that is all.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR, BISHOP:
Q Mr. Caldwell, you were asked on cross examination



156

something about a re-location problem?
A Yes, sir.

Q Are you familiar with that problem?
A Yes, sir.

Q Will you briefly explain that to the Court and point
out on the map what the problem is?

A Well, basically it is as simple as this. Fairfield 

is running out of land. We have a blighted area down here 

which everyone, colored and white, recognizes that it is a 
blighted area, and something needs to be done.

Q Briefly, have there been any objections to the

residents (139) of this area being placed in any other 
section of Fairfield?

A To some of the residents, yes, there has been severe
obj ections»

Q That is another section I have reference to where they 
are predominantly Negro or White?
A Negro.

Q What is the objection of the other Negro section -- 

what objection have they expressed in connection with the 

re-location problem of having the residents surrounding 
the Englewood School?

A That is basically the same problem they ran into

with the other section, just a problem of this class of 
people.



157

MR. NEWTON:

I object to the use of the word class of people.
MR. WEINBERG:

I object to the whole thing about re-locating them. 
THE COURT:

You mean different classes of colored people?
A Yes, sir.

THE COURT:

They objected to these people coming in there?
A Yes, sir.

(140) Q Is that the re-location problem?

A Yes, sir.

MR. WEINBERG:

I object to this line of questioning. It is 

totally immaterial.

THE COURT:

We are getting a little afield.
MR. BISHOP:

That is all I have, Judge. Thank you, Mr. Caldwell.

(Witness excused)

THE COURT:
Is that all everybody has?

MR. BISHOP:

Yes, sir.



158

MR, NEWTON:

Yes, sir.

THE COURT:

We have reached recess time. I will hear you 

after 1:30 when we come back from lunch.

(The foregoing was all 

the testimony in the case)

0O0



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