Stout v. Young Men's Christian Association of Bessemer Alabama Record on Appeal

    I n  t h e

llnxUh ^tatrs Court of Appeals
Foe the F ifth Circuit 

No. 25894

Blevin Stout and Sammie B ibb, Jr., individually, 
and on behalf of others similarly situated,

versus
Appellants,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation 
of Bessemer, A labama,

Appellee.

APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA

RECORD ON APPEAL

Norman C. A maker 
Jack Greenberg

10 Columbus Circle 
New York, N. Y. 10019

Oscar W . A dams, Jr.
H arvey M. B urg

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Attorneys for Appellants



I N D E X
PAGE

Answer to Complaint ........... ..... ......... ..... ......................  7

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law ... ............. 10

Judgment ...................................       16

Amendment of Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law 
and Judgment ................................................................ 18

Notice of Appeal .............................................................. 19

Clerk’s Certificate..............................................................  21

Transcript of Hearing of December 11, 1967 ................  22

Designation of Portions of Record on Appeal.............  133

Certificate of Service ......................   135

T estimony 

(December 11, 1967)

Plaintiffs’ Witnesses:

Blevin Stout—
Direct .................................................................. 23
Cross .............................................. - ..................  25

Sammie Bibb—
Direct .............................................    29
Cross ............................................    31
Redirect .............................................................. 33

Complaint ......      1



Steven Cotton—

PAGE

Direct .................................................................  34
Cross .................................................................... 38

Cloyce Hurst—
Direct .................................................................  44
Cross ...................................................................  48
Redirect ..............................................................  53

Jason Dean—
Direct .................................................................. 60

E xhibits

Plaintiffs’ Exhibits:

1— Rent Receipt ........
2— Residence Application . 
3.—Dormitory Regulations

Offered Printed 
Page Page

. 35 64

. 36 65

. 36 67

4—Interrogatories to Defendant and An­
swers ..................................................  42 70

5— Deposition of Cloyce II. H urst.......  43 93
6— By Laws of Bessemer Y M C A ......... 56 128



In the

luttefr States Ststrirt (Emtrt
F ob the N orthern D istrict of A labama 

Southern D ivision 

Civil Action No. CA 66-715 
(Filed November 21, 1966)

Blevin Stout and Sammie B ibb, Jr., individually, 
and on behalf of others similarly situated,

vs.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of Bessemer, A la­
bama, a non-profit unincorporated association of Bes­
semer, Alabama,

Defendant.

Complaint

I
Jurisdiction of this Court is invoked pursuant to 28 

U.S.C. Section 1343 (3) and Section 1343 (4). This is a 
suit in equity authorized and instituted pursuant to Title 
II of the Civil Bights Act of 1964, 78 Stat. 243, 42 U.S.C. 
Sections 2000a et seq., and 42 U.S.C. Section 1983. The 
jurisdiction of the Court is invoked to secure protection 
of civil rights and to redress deprivation of rights, privi­
leges and immunities secured by (a) the Fourteenth 
Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, Sec­
tion 1; (b) the Commerce Clause, Article 1, Section 8, 
Clause 3, of the Constitution of the United States; (c)



2

Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 78 Stat. 243, 42 
U.S.C. Sections 2000a et seq., providing for injunctive re­
lief against discrimination in places of public accommo­
dations; and (d) 42 U.S.C. Section 1981, providing for 
the equal rights of citizens and all persons within the 
jurisdiction of the United States.

II

This is a proceeding for an injunction restraining the 
defendant from continuing or maintaining any policy, 
practice, custom and usage of withholding, denying, at­
tempting to withhold or deny, or depriving or attempt­
ing to deprive, or otherwise interfering with the rights 
of the plaintiffs or other similarly situated to admission 
to and full use and enjoyment of the goods, services, fa­
cilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations of the 
Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama, 
without discrimination or segregation on the ground of 
race or color.

III

Plaintiffs in this case are Blevin Stout and Sammie 
Bibb, Jr., citizens of the United States and the State of 
Alabama, residing in Hueytown, Alabama and in Besse­
mer, Alabama, respectively. Plaintiffs are Negroes and 
bring this action on their own behalf and on behalf of 
others similarly situated, pursuant to Rule 23 (a) (3) of 
the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. There are common 
questions of law and fact affecting the rights of other 
Negro persons to purchase and secure the goods, services, 
facilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations of 
the Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Ala­

Complaint



3

bama without discrimination and segregation on the ground 
of race or color, who are so numerous as to make it im­
practicable to bring them all individually before this Court. 
A common relief is sought and the interests of the class 
are adequately represented by plaintiffs.

IV
Defendant Young Men’s Christian Association of Bes­

semer, Alabama is a tax exempt, non-profit, unincorpo­
rated association operating and administering the services 
and facilities herein set forth at 1815—4th Avenue, North, 
Bessemer, Alabama.

V
A. Defendant Young Men’s Christian Association of 

Bessemer, Alabama, provides lodging to transient guests. 
It contains more than five (5) rooms for rent or hire at 
its building at 1815—4th Avenue, North, Bessemer, Ala­
bama. Its operation affects travel, trade, traffic, com­
merce, transportation or communication among, between 
and through the several states, the District of Columbia 
or foreign countries, territories and possessions.

B. Defendant Young Men’s Christian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama, operates a cafeteria and serves and 
offers to serve interstate travelers. The cafeteria is 
physically located within the premises of the Young Men’s 
Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama at 1815— 
4th Avenue, North, Bessemer, Alabama. Its operation af­
fects travel, trade, traffic, commerce, transportation or 
communication among, between and through the several 
states, the District of Columbia or foreign countries, ter­
ritories and possessions. A substantial portion of the 
food which it serves moves in commerce.

Complaint



4

V I

On November 17, 1965, plaintiffs Blevin Stout and Sam- 
mie Bibb, Jr., sought to secure the services and accommo­
dations of the Young Men’s Christian Association of Bes­
semer, Alabama. They told a person who said that he 
was the General Secretary of the Bessemer YMCA that 
they would like to secure rooms and that they would 
like to file application for membership at the Bessemer 
YMCA. They were told by the person who called himself 
the General Secretary that the Bessemer YMCA did not 
allow Negroes to file for membership and they did not 
rent rooms to Negroes nor did they serve Negroes at 
the eating facility in the building.

vn
Plaintiffs were and have been denied and deprived of 

services at the Young Men’s Christian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama because of defendant’s well estab­
lished and maintained policy, practice, custom and usage 
of excluding, refusing to serve and discriminating against 
Negroes in all of its facilities, services and accommoda­
tions at the Young Men’s Christian Association of Besse­
mer, Alabama, in violation of plaintiffs rights to full and 
equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privi­
leges, advantages and accommodations without discrim­
ination or segregation on the ground of race or color as 
secured by (a) the Fourteenth Amendment to the Consti­
tution of the United States; (b) the Commerce Clause, 
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3, of the Constitution of the 
United States; (c) Title II of the Civil Eights Act of 
1964, 78 Stat. 243, 42 U.S.C. Sections 2000a et seq., pro­

Complaint



5

viding for injunctive relief against discrimination in places 
of public accommodations; and (d) 42 U.S.C. Section 1981.

The racially discriminatory practices of defendant are 
in continuance of a long established and maintained pol­
icy of defendant in the operation of the Young Men’s 
Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama. The State 
of Alabama has no State law and the County of Jeffer­
son, and the City of Bessemer have no local law or ordi­
nance prohibiting the racially discriminatory practices 
complained of herein, or establishing or authorizing a 
State or local authority to grant or seek the relief prayed 
for herein. Plaintiffs have no plain, adequate or com­
plete remedy at law to redress these wrongs, and this 
suit for injunction is the only means of securing adequate 
relief. Plaintiffs are now suffering and will continue to 
suffer irreparable injury from defendant’s policy, prac­
tice, custom and usage as set forth herein until enjoined 
by the Court.

VIII

There is no State or local authority authorized to grant 
relief with respect to, the denial of access to establish­
ments covered by the provisions of Title II of the Civil 
Bights Act of 1964, 78 Stat. 243, 42 U.S.C. Sections 2000a 
et seq.

W herefore, plaintiffs respectfully pray this Court ad­
vance this cause on the docket, order a speedy hearing 
at the earliest practicable date, and upon such hearing to :

1. Forever enjoin defendant, its agents, successors, em­
ployees, attorneys, and those acting in concert with them 
and at their direction from continuing' or maintaining any 
policy, practice, custom or usage of denying, abridging,

Complaint



6

segregating, withholding, conditioning, limiting, or other­
wise interfering with plaintiffs and others of their class 
in the admission to and the nse and enjoyment of the 
goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages and ac­
commodations of the Young Men’s Christian Association 
of Bessemer, Alabama, on the basis of race or color as 
contrary to the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitu­
tion of the United States, the Commerce Clause, Article 1, 
Section 8, Clause 3, of the Constitution of the United 
States, Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 78 Stat. 
243, 42 U.S.C. Sections 2000a et seq., and 42 U.S.C. Sec­
tion 1981.

2. Allow plaintiffs their costs herein, including a rea­
sonable attorney’s fee and such other, additional, or alter­
native relief as may appear to the Court to be equitable 
and just.

Respectfully submitted,

/ s /  Oscae W . A dams, Je.
Oscar W. Adams, Jr.

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Jack Gbeenbeeg

N oeman C. A makee

CoNBAD H aBPEB
#10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019

Attorneys for Plaintiffs

Complaint



7

Answer to Complaint

(Filed January 5, 1967)

I n the

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

F oe the N orthern District of A labama 

Southern Division 

Civil Action No. CA 66—715

Blevins Stout, Sammie B ibb, Jr., R everend E dward Gard­
ner, Reverend John T. P orter, individually and on 
behalf of others similarly situated,

Plaintiffs,
vs.

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of Bessemer, A la­
bama, a non-profit unincorporated association of Besse­
mer, Alabama,

Defendant.

ANSWER TO COMPLAINT

Comes the Defendant and for answer to the Complaint 
assigns the following defenses, separately and severally:

First Defense

The Complaint fails to state a claim against Defendant 
upon which relief can be granted.



8

Answer to Complaint 

Second Defense

Defendant admits that it is tax exempt but says it is 
a non-profit corporation rather than an unincorporated 
association as alleged in the Complaint. Defendant oper­
ates and administers services and facilities at 1815—4th 
Avenue, North, in Bessemer, Alabama, but denies that it 
operates and administers the services and facilities alleged 
in the Complaint.

Defendant denies that it provides lodging to transient 
guests and denies that its operation affects travel, trade, 
traffic, commerce, transportation or communication among, 
between and through the several states, the District of 
Colmnhia or foreign countries, territories and possessions.

Defendant denies that it operates a cafeteria and that 
it serves and offers to serve interstate travelers.

Defendant admits that on or about November 17, 1965, 
two negroes came to its facilities in Bessemer, Alabama, 
and asked to be served food and asked for lodging. De­
fendant neither admits nor denies that these two persons 
were the plaintiffs, Blevins Stout and Sammie Bibb, Jr., 
as defendant does not recall the names of the two persons 
or whether they identified themselves. Defendant denies 
that its General Secretary told these persons that defen­
dant did not allow negroes to file for membership and did 
not rent rooms to negroes and did not serve negroes at 
the eating facility in the building.

Other than as herein admitted, Defendant denies all 
other allegations of the Complaint.



9

Answer to Complaint 

Third Defense

Defendant denies that it has violated any rights of 
Plaintiffs under the Constitution and Laws of the United 
States of America.

M cE niry, M cE niry & M cE niry 
H uey, Stone & Patton

By / s /  J. Patton, Jr.
Attorneys for Defendant

McEniry, McEniry & McEniry 
1721—4th Avenue, North 
Bessemer, Alabama, 35020

Huey, Stone & Patton 
Suite 414 Realty Building 
Bessemer, Alabama 35020



10

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law

(Filed December 13, 1967)

I n  t h e

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
F oe the N orthern D isteict of A labama 

Southern Division 

Civil Action No. 66-715

Blevin Stout and Sammie B ibb, Jr., individually, 
and on behalf of others similarly situated,

vs.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of Bessemer, A la­
bama, a non-profit unincorporated association of Besse­
mer, Alabama,

Defendant.

FINDINGS OF FACT 
AND

CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
This is an action filed by the plaintiffs, Blevin Stout 

and Sammie Bibb, Jr., individually and on behalf of others 
similarly situated, against the Young Men’s Christian As­
sociation of Bessemer, Alabama. Jurisdiction is invoked 
pursuant to 28 U.S.C.A. Section 1343 (3) and Section 1343 
(4). It is instituted under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, and pursuant 
to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 42 U.S.C.A.



11

§ 2000a, et seq. Plaintiffs charge a deprivation of civil 
rights, privileges and immunities secured to them by the 
laws of the United States. The Court has heard the evi­
dence orally and has carefully considered the deposition 
of Clyce H. Hurst.

F indings of F act

The Court finds the facts as follows:

1. Defendant, Young Men’s Christian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama, hereinafter referred to as YMCA, 
is a non-profit corporation incorporated under the laws 
of the State of Alabama. Its general secretary is Clyce 
H. Hurst. It is governed by a Board of Directors of 24 
members, the present chairman of which is Jason Dean. 
It is a member of the National Council of YMCA and 
the Southern Area Council of the YMCA, but is autono­
mous. It is supposed to pay three per cent dues and make 
a yearly report to the National Council. The only support 
that it receives from the National Council is in the wTay 
of literature and publicity.

2. It owns and occupies the building located at 1815 
Fourth Avenue, Bessemer, Alabama. This building is a 
three-story structure with swimming pool and exercise 
room in the basement. There is a civic room in which all 
the civic clubs in the city meet. The directors elect a 
caterer who serves several clubs for which the Associa­
tion receives 10  ̂ per plate. The clubs pay the cateress 
and the YMCA has nothing to do with these funds. There 
are offices for the general secretary and the physical di­
rector, reading room, T.V. room, boys room and a craft 
room. There are 46 dormitory rooms in which a total of

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



12

58 people can be accommodated. It has an athletic field 
under lease.

3. The YMCA has a program of activities for youth, 
girls and boys, and for men and women. It has classes 
in gymnasium. It has basketball and softball leagues 
which are church-supported. It has a swimming pool for 
boys and girls, an exercise room, football leagues and 
slimnastic classes for women. It has also a health club 
which is sustained by separate dues of $5.00 per year.

4. The income of the YMCA is derived from member­
ship dues, physical fees, dormitory rents, and the United 
Appeal, 53% or 54% of its income being derived from 
the latter source. It receives no public funds of any kind. 
Its gross income for 1966 was $74,154.04. It paid out to 
resident and non-resident suppliers for the same period 
$4,342.75. It has 18 employees.

5. The YMCA as such buys no food, nor does it serve 
any food on the premises. It has one candy and coke 
machine. Except for certain civic clubs which have a stand­
ing approval the caterer is required to secure approval 
before entertaining any club. No food is served to indi­
viduals at any time. For a while the Lions Club had a 
practice of having an oyster supper once a year to which 
the public was invited, but this has been discontinued.

6. The YMCA is located five blocks from the nearest 
U.S. Highway, No. 11. It does no radio, T.Y. or news­
paper advertising. There are no signs of any kind on 
any highways inviting the general public to enjoy its 
facilities. It does not hold itself out to transients. How­

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



13

ever, occasionally, it will rent a room to a person who 
may be normally classed as a transient. During the year 
1965 there were six individuals who stayed less than a 
week and during 1966 there were five. As far as the 
evidence reveals, all of these so-called transients were 
residents of the State of Alabama. There are one or 
two individuals whose addresses are not shown, but the 
rest of them are shown as being residents of the state. 
Most of its dormitory space is occupied by more or less 
permanent residents. There are a number of people who 
work in industry in Bessemer and who live at the YMCA 
more or less permanently, some going home on the week­
ends. It has a total of approximately 3,000 members in 
all categories.

7. The general dues are $24.00 per annum. As indi­
cated there is an additional $5.00 for a person wishing 
to join the health club. Persons who are not members 
are charged a membership fee of 50<j; per week. However, 
it appears that this 50  ̂ is collected on the first night’s 
lodging. A person wishing to join the YMCA files an 
application for a membership. This is reviewed by a 
committee, and before a person is elected to membership 
he is finally approved by the Board of Directors. The 
applications are screened by the membership committee, 
and it is rare that the Board turns down an individual.

8. The YMCA operates under a written constitution. 
This contains no restrictions with respect to color or race. 
However, the individual has to meet certain qualifications 
before he is eligible for membership. There have been no 
applications from Negroes prior to the last two years.

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



14

9. The plaintiff Blevin Stout, a Negro citizen who re­
sides in Hueytown, a municipality adjacent to Bessemer, 
and who is an employee of the Veterans Administration 
Hospital in Birmingham, along with the plaintiff Sammie 
Bibb, Jr., also a Negro citizen who resides in Bessemer,, 
Alabama, went to the YMCA on November 17, 1965. They 
asked for membership applications, and they were told by 
the secretary that they could not be admitted because they 
were Negroes. They tried to rent a room but also were 
refused. They also inquired about eating facilities and 
were advised there were no eating facilities available. 
They sat down in the reading room and began reading mag­
azines when the secretary “encouraged” them to leave.

The Court finds that they were denied membership and 
the use of the facilities because they were Negroes.

10. On December 7, 1965, Stephen Cotton, a white per­
son who now resides in Cambridge, Massachusetts but who 
at that time was living in Birmingham and was working as 
an employee of the Southern Courier, a Montgomery News­
paper, went to the YMCA in Bessemer and asked for a 
room. He was rented a room and paid $1.50. The receipt 
recites that 50  ̂ is for membership. He was assigned Room 
311. Shortly thereafter he attended the Lions Club oyster 
supper and was served along with others. A little later he 
went back to his room and took his baggage and returned 
to his home in Birmingham.

Conclusions of L aw

Based upon the foregoing Findings of Fact the Court 
concludes as follows:

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



15

1. That this Court has jurisdiction of the subject mat­
ter and of the parties to this action.

2. That the plaintiffs do not have a right to maintain 
this action based upon a violation of Title 42 U.S.C.A. 
§ 2000a, et seq., or other Civil Rights laws.

3. The activities of the YMCA do not affect commerce 
within the contemplation of the Civil Rights statutes, 
nor is the YMCA at Bessemer a place of public accom­
modation. Its facilities are not open to the public. NeSmith 
v. Young Men’s Christian Association of Raleigh, North 
Carolina, Inc. (E.D. N.C.), decided October 3, 1967.

It is not this Court’s understanding that the Civil Rights 
laws have done aw'ay with the right of choosing one’s 
associates in private clubs or organizations like the YMCA.

4. That the plaintiffs are not entitled to the relief 
sought.

5. That the defendants are entitled to a judgment dis­
missing this action with prejudice.

A judgment will be entered accordingly.

Done and Ordered, this the 13th day of December, 1967.

/ s /  H. H. Geooms 
United States District Judge

[ S e a l ]

A True Copy

W illiam E. Davis

Clerk, IT. S. D istrict Court

Northern District op A labama

B y / s/  M. Claire P arsons 
Deputy Clerk

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law



16

Judgment

(Filed December 13, 1967)

Ik the

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

F ob the Nobtheen D istkict of A labama 

Southern Division 

Civil A ction No. 66-715

Blevin Stout, Sammie B ibb, Jr., individually and on 
behalf of others similarly situated,

Plaintiffs,
vs.

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of B essemer, 
A labama, a non-profit unincorporated association of 

Bessemer, Alabama,
Defendant.

JUDGMENT
This cause came regularly on for trial before the Court 

without a jury, and was duly submitted for consideration 
and decision, and the Court, after due deliberation, having 
on this the 13th day of December, 1967, filed herein its 
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law;

Now, therefore, pursuant to said Findings of Fact and 
Conclusions of Law filed herein, it is

Ordered, A djudged and Decreed that the injunctive re­
lief sought by the plaintiffs be, and the same is hereby, 
denied, and that this action be, and the same is hereby, 
dismissed with prejudice.



17

Judgment

It is further Ordered that the defendant recover its costs. 
Done and Ordered, this the 13th day of December, 1967.

/ s /  H. H. Grooms 
United States District Judge

[Seal]

A True Copy

W illiam E. D avis

Clerk, TJ. S. District Court

Northern D istrict of A labama

By / s/  M. Claire Parsons 
Deputy Clerk



18

(Filed December 20, 1967)

Amendment of Findings of Fact, Conclusions
of Law and Judgment

I n  THE

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
F oe the Northern D istrict of A labama 

Southern D ivision 
Civil A ction No. 66-715

B levin Stout, Sammie B ibb, Jr., individually and on 
behalf of others similarly situated,

Plaintiffs,
vs.

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of B essemer, 
A l a b a m a , a non-profit unincorporated association of 

Bessemer, Alabama,
Defendant.

AMENDMENT OF FINDINGS OF FACT, 
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND JUDGMENT 

The Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Judg­
ment entered herein on December 13, 1967, be and they 
hereby are amended by striking therefrom wherever they 
appear the words, “with prejudice.”

Done and Ordered, this the 20th day of December, 1967.

/ s /  H. H. Grooms 
United States District Judge

[ S e a l ]

A True Copy

W illiam E. Davis

Clerk, U. S. District Court

N orthern District of A labama

By / s /  Mary L. T ortorici 
Deputy Clerk



19

Notice of Appeal

(Filed January 10, 1968)

I n  t h e

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
F ob the Noethebn Distbict of A labama 

Southebn Division 

Civil A ction No. CA 66-715

B levin Stout, Sammie B ibb, Jb., individually and on 
behalf of others similarly situated,

Plaintiffs,
vs.

Foung Men ’s Chbistian A ssociation of B essemeb, 
A labama, a non-profit unincorporated association of 

Bessemer, Alabama,
Defendant.

NOTICE OF APPEAL

Notice is hereby given that Blevin Stout and Sammie 
Bibb, Jr., individually and on behalf of others similarly 
situated, the plaintiffs herein, hereby appeal to the United 
States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit from an 
Order of the United States District Court for the Northern 
District of Alabama, Southern Division, dismissing plain­
tiffs’ complaint, said Order dated December 13, 1967 and 
filed on that date in the Clerk’s Office.

This notice dated January 10, 1968.



20

Notice of Appeal

/s /  H arvey M. B urg

A dams & B urg

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Jack Greenberg 
Norman C. A maker 
Conrad H arper

#10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019

Attorneys for Plaintiffs



21

Clerk’s Certificate

U nited States of A mebica 
N orthern District of A labama

I, W illiam E. Davis, Clerk of the United States District 
Court for the Northern District of Alabama do hereby 
certify that the foregoing pages numbered from one (1) to 
twenty-one (21), both inclusive, comprise the original plead­
ings in this action and are herewith attached as a full, 
true and correct transcript of the record on appeal, in the 
Matter of B levin Stout and Sammie B ibb, Jb., individually 
and on behalf of others similarly situated, Appellants, vs. 
Y oung Men ’s Cheistian A ssociation of B essemeb, A la­
bama, a non-profit unincorporated association of Besse­
mer, Alabama, Appellee, Civil Action No. 66-715, Southern 
Division, as fully as the same appears of record and on 
file in my office.

I n W itness W hereof, I have hereunto subscribed my 
name and affixed the seal of said Court at Birmingham, 
Alabama, in said District, on this the 12th day of Feb­
ruary, 1968.

/ s /  W illiam E. Davis

[ S e a l ]

W illiam E. Davis, Clerk 
United States District Court



22

Transcript of Hearing of December 11 , 1967

(Filed January 29, 1968)

I n the

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
F ob the Southern District oe A labama 

Southern D ivision 

No. 66-715

Blevin Stout and Sammie B ibb, Jr.,
Plaintiffs,

vs.

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of Bessemer, 
A labama, etc.,

Defendant.

Caption

T he A bove E ntitled Cause came on to be heard before 
the Hon. H. H. Grooms, Judge, beginning at 9:00 A.M., 
December 11, 1967, when the following proceedings, among 
others, were had and done:

A ppearances

Messrs. Oscar W. A dams, Jr. and H arvey B urg, appear­
ing for the Plaintiff.

Mr. J. A lbert M cE niry and W illiam Patton, Jr. ap­
pearing for the Defendant.



23

Blevin Stout—Plaintiff—Direct 

P r o c e e d i n g s

The Court: Gentlemen, we have here this morning for 
trial the case of Blevin Stout and Sammie Bibb, Jr. versus 
Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama. 
What say the plaintiffs?

Mr. Adams: We are ready, your Honor.
Mr. McEniry: We are ready, your Honor.
The Court: All right.
Mr. Adams: I would like to make an opening statement.
(Whereupon, counsel for the respective parties stated 

the case to the Court, following which the following oc­
curred) :

The Court: Does either side wish the rule?
Mr. Adams: Yes, sir.
The Court: We will swear the witnesses first.

(Witnesses sworn, rule invoked.)
The Court: All right. Call your first witness.
Mr. Adams: Blevin Stout.

Blevin Stout, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: 

Direct Examination Toy Mr. Adams:

Q. State your name, please? A. Mr. Blevin Stout.
Q. Mr. Stout, where do you live? A. At 1486 Huey- 

town Road.
Q. And that is in Hueytown, Alabama? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. Lifetime.
Q. Where are you employed, Mr. Stout? A. Veterans 

Administration Hospital, Birmingham, Alabama.
Q. Mr. Stout, have you been to the premises of the 

Bessemer YMCA located in Bessemer, Alabama? A. Yes.



24

Q. And can you tell us when that was, Mr. Stout! A. 
That was on November 17, 1965.

Q. Were you with anyone else, Mr. Stout! A. Yes, Mr. 
Sammie Bibb.

Q. Who is Mr. Bibb! A. That is Mr. Sammie Bibb 
sitting in the chair down below me.

Q. Are you a member of the Negro race! A. Yes.
Q. Is Mr. Bibb a member of the Negro race! A. Yes, 

he is.
Q. And on November 17, 1965, you state you went to 

the premises of the Bessemer YMCA! A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you state what you did when you got to the 

Bessemer YMCA when you got on the premises! A. On 
November 17, 1965,1, Blevin Stout, along with Mr. Sammie 
Bibb, entered the Bessemer YMCA. We asked Mr. Hurst 
to fill out a membership application; and he said, no, we 
can’t let you fill out a membership application.

I asked him why. He said because of your being a 
Negro, and I further questioned him. I said, what about 
the eating facilities. He said, no, we can’t serve you. I 
asked him why, and he said the same purpose.

I went on to ask him about renting rooms there, and 
organizations, because we planned to use some organiza­
tions there. He said the same thing, the same applies 
because it is not open to Negroes, any facilities here, no 
facilities here are open to Negroes.

Q. Mr. Stout, did you ask him whether you and Mr. 
Bibb could rent a room at that time at the Bessemer 
YMCA! A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you tell the Court again what he said! A. He 
said because of your race you are denied.

Q. Did he say anything, Mr. Stout, about taking the 
matter up with the board of directors! A. Well, he said

Blevin Stout— Plaintiff—Direct



25

it wouldn’t do any good to file any application, or fill any 
application out or take it up with the board of directors 
because they were going to deny it; and we sat there in 
the lobby reading a magazine, and he told us we might as 
well leave; and he encouraged us to leave anyhow because 
we weren’t going to receive any applications or let us use 
any facilities there.

Q. Did you leave? A. Yes; we left.
Q. Mr. Stout, where is the Bessemer YMCA located, do 

you recall? A. It is between 18th and 19th Street, I be­
lieve that is right.

Q. In Bessemer, Alabama? A. In Bessemer.
Q. Now, at the time you went there on the 17th, was 

there anyone else there, police officers, FBI, or anything 
like that? A. I didn’t notice the FBI. I don’t recall as to 
whether the police officers were there at that time or not.

Q. Did you notify the FBI you were going there? A. 
The FBI—they were informed at that time we were using 
facilities in Bessemer, and I am sure they were aware of 
this.

Q. You had generally informed the FBI you were going 
to try to use facilities in Bessemer, is that what you are 
saying? A. Yes.

Mr. Adams: No further questions. Answer his 
questions.

Cross Examination by Mr. McEniry:

Q. Mr. Stout, Mr. Hurst did not threaten you, or do any 
bodily harm, or threaten to do any bodily harm to you, 
did he? A. Not any bodily harm, no.

Q. He didn’t threaten to shoot you, or kill you, or throw 
you out, or anything like that, did he? A. He just told 
us to leave.

Blevin Stout—Plaintiff—Cross



26

Q. There was no reason for any police officer to be there, 
was there! A. Well, under the circumstances, I would 
rather there have been police officers there with the tense 
situation at that time.

Q. Was there anything went on at this time out of the 
way at all at the YMCA! A. Well, I can’t say there 
wasn’t, because the klansmen had been following us around.

Q. I asked yon in the lobby at the YMCA, did Mr. Hurst 
or anybody make any threats or do anything against you 
at that time! A. Mr. Hurst didn’t.

Q. Did anybody else! A. Not bodily harm.
Q. Now, what time of day was it you went there! A. 

Oh, I guess it was before 12 o’clock. I can’t be too spe­
cific about that, but I think it was before 12 o’clock.

Q. Shortly before 12 o’clock, or about 12 o’clock, or what! 
A. The only thing I can say about that, it was before 
1 o’clock. I wouldn’t say just what hour, really.

Q. Closer to 10? A. It could have been. I just wouldn’t 
say. I know it was before 12 o’clock.

Q. What eating facilities were you wishing to use? A. 
Any eating facilities that where there available.

Q. Were you told there were none available? A. Told 
us we could not use them.

Q. Were you told there were none available? A. They 
didn’t tell us that.

Q. The ones you wanted to use were the ones available, 
and they told you there weren’t any, didn’t they ? A. They 
didn’t say that.

Blevin Stout— Plaintiff—Cross



27

Mr. Adams: I object. It doesn’t appear who told 
him.

Q. I am talking about Mr. Hurst. A. He didn’t tell me 
there weren’t any facilities available.

Q. To your knowledge, is there a restaurant that oper­
ates at the YMCA! A. I don’t know.

Q. You don’t know anything about any restaurant at 
the YMCA? A. The only thing I know, he said no fa­
cilities are available to Negroes there. This is what he 
told me.

Q. Now, you asked about organizations! A. Yes.
Q. What did you ask about organizations! A. I asked 

—we would like to register as an organization because we 
were interested in some organization meetings there, ex­
ecutive body.

Q. What organization did you tell Mr. Hurst you were 
interested in meeting there! A. I didn’t name any spe­
cific organization.

Q. Were you and Mr. Bibb sent there by any organiza­
tion! A. No.

Q. You and Mr. Bibb went there on your own! A. We 
did.

Q. Did anybody send you! A. No.
Q. Do you know of any other Negroes in the Bessemer 

area that asked you to go for them! A. No.
Q. In other words, you were there strictly on your own! 

A. That’s right.
Q. At that time! A. Yes, sir.
Q. As far as you know, is the same thing true with 

Mr. Bibb! A. Right.
Q. Has there been any conversation in any of the Negro

Blevin Stout— Plaintiff—Cross



28

organizations that you remember leading up to a general 
use of the YMCA! A. Ask that again, please.

Q. Has there any conversation occurred, or plans, or 
actions taken in any of the Negro organizations in the 
Bessemer area regarding the use of the YMCA! A. No.

Mr. Adams: I object; I don’t see the relevancy.

Q. I believe you answered no. A. Yes, sir.

The Court: If he knows anything about it, this 
is, of course, a class action, and I presume that is 
directed as to whether or not he represents a class. 

Mr. McEniry: Yes, sir.

Q. Is the answer to that no! A. The answer is no on 
that.

Q. Mr. Hurst did not give you an application to fill out! 
A. No, sir.

Q. Consequently, you did not fill out an application! A. 
No.

Q. You sat in the lobby and read magazines and finally 
he suggested you might as well go on! A. That’s right, 
he told us to leave.

Q. And then you left! A. And we left.

Mr. McEniry: That is all.
The Court: Anything else!
Mr. Adams: No further questions.
The Court: All right, you may come down.
(Witness excused).

Mr. Adams: Mr. Sammie Bibb.

Blevin Stout-— Plaintiff—Cross



29

Sammie B ibb, Jb., being first duly sworn, testified as 
follows:

Direct Examination by Mr. Adams:

Q. State your name, please? A. Mr. Sammie Bibb, Jr.
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Bibb? A. 937 Burwell Street, 

Bessemer, Alabama.
Q. Bessemer, Alabama? A. Bessemer, Alabama.
Q. Mr. Bibb, are you presently employed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is your—what job do you perform? A. I am 

Assistant Manager for Booker T. Washington Insurance 
Company.

Q. Is that in Bessemer? A. In Bessemer.
Q. I call your attention to November 17, 1965. Did you, 

in the company of Mr. Stout, go on the premises of the 
Bessemer YMCA? A. Yes, sir, we did.

Q. Will you tell the Court here, Mr. Bibb, exactly what 
you and Mr. Stout did when you got on the premises of 
the Bessemer YMCA? A. We went into the YMCA. At 
this time Mr. Stout was in front of me, and Mr. Hurst 
identified himself as Mr. Hurst, at least the gentleman 
said his name was Mr. Hurst, confronted us and Mr. Stout 
asked him about a room, and he said that we could not 
get a room. So he asked him why, and he said because 
we were Negroes.

At that time Mr. Stout asked him about using the dining 
room facilities for organizations or—and he said no, and 
we asked for an application, and he said no, for the same 
reason, because we were Negroes, and we had a seat on 
a little sectional couch or something he had and started 
looking at a magazine. He asked us to leave, at which 
time he still wouldn’t give us an application for member­
ship, and we got up and left.

Sammie Bibb, Jr.— Plaintiff—Direct



30

Q. Let me ask you this, Mr. Bibb. Did Mr. Hurst state 
these words to you, “Well, if you are waiting for member­
ship, you might as well go, because we can’t let you file 
application for membership in the Y” .

Did he say that! A. He said that.
Q. Did he also say if you apply I will have to—it will 

have to be approved by the board of directors!

Mr. McEniry: We object to him leading the wit­
ness and putting words in the mouth of the witness.

The Court: You ought to rephrase your question 
and ask him if he remembers what was said. You 
might need to refresh his recollection.

Q. Do you remember precisely what Mr. Hurst said 
to you on that occasion? A. After hearing part of it, I 
do. He said there Avould be no need to fill out an appli­
cation because the board would reject it, and at that time 
he was asked why, and he said simply because you are a 
Negro.

Q. Did you have any conversation or discussion with him 
about the cafeteria? A. This was pertaining to using it 
for a group and so forth, eating in the cafeteria, and he 
denied use of that too, but he said you had to be a mem­
ber most of the time, but he always said you couldn’t 
get an application to fill out because the board would 
approve it.

Q. Did he ever say anything about whether he did or 
did not have rooms available though? A. Well, I can’t 
remember exactly whether he said he had any available 
or not, because he kept saying we couldn’t use them be­
cause we were Negroes.

Sarnmie Bibb, Jr.— Plaintiff—Direct



31

Mr. Adams: That is all. Answer Mr. McEniry’s 
questions.

Cross Examination by Mr. McEniry.

Q. Now, Mr. Bibb, have you ever been in the dining 
room of the YMCA? A. Not the one in Bessemer.

Q. Do you know its operation? A. No, sir, I didn’t.
Q. At the time you went there, did you know its opera­

tion? A. No, sir, I didn’t.
Q. At the time you went to the YMCA did you know it 

didn’t serve, under any circumstances, individuals? A. 
No.

Q. Did you know it only served organizations? A. No.
Q. And yet you tell the Court you asked could an organ­

ization meet there? A. Yes.
Q. Isn’t it a fact that is not so, but the first time you 

found out about that is after the depositions, and after 
the lawyers representing you told you it only served or­
ganizations and does not serve people under any circum­
stances? Isn’t that the first time the word organization 
came into this matter regarding eating there? A. No.

Q. You say you didn’t ask to eat yourself? A. We 
asked to eat in the dining room.

Q. For yourselves or for an organization? A. For an 
organization.

Q. You didn’t ask to go down and eat then yourselves? 
A. I didn’t see any use. He kept saying it wasn’t open 
to Negroes.

Q. You didn’t ask for it? A. No.
Q. Then what Mr. Stout has testified is in error? A. 

I can’t say that. I know what I heard him ask.
Q. You didn’t ask, and you didn’t hear him? A. I 

didn’t hear him.

Sammie Bibb, Jr.— Plaintiff—Cross



32

Q. But you did ask for an organization! A. I heard 
that.

Q. What organization were you interested in! A. We 
didn’t name an organization.

Q. Did any organization send you there to arrange for 
the dining room! A. No.

Q. Isn’t it a fact that Mr. Hurst told you that the 
dormitory was absolutely full on the day you went there! 
A. It is a fact he said I couldn’t use the facilities because 
I was a Negro. That is all he told me. He didn’t tell me 
anything about it being full.

Q. That is all he told you! A. That is what he kept 
repeating.

Q. Did you order a room or did you want a room that 
night! A. If I could have gotten one, I probably would 
have stayed.

Q. How long would you have stayed! A. All of the 
night until the next morning when I had to go to work.

Q. Did you have your clothes with you! A. I had 
some on.

Q. Did you have any pajamas or shaving cream! A. 
No.

Q. Did Mr. Stout have any pajamas, or shaving cream, 
or anything! A. No.

Q. Were you at work on that day! A. Yes.
Q. And you took off from work to go there! A. Yes.
Q. Where is 933 Burwell Street! A. It is in Bessemer, 

a section called Hillman Estates.
Q. I am not familiar with it. Is that out on the old 

South Bessemer Boad! Is it in the Hillman Gardens! A. 
It is in that general area.

Q. Past Lipscomb! A. Yes.

Sammie Bibb, Jr . — Plaintiff—Cross



33

Q. This is a matter of three or four miles from down­
town Bessemer? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you still say you went there to get a room to 
stay that night? A. Yes.

Q. And you were planning on staying that night if the 
room had been given to you? A. Yes.

Q. When did you and Mr. Stout first get together on 
that day? A. I reported to work, and reported out about 
10, I suppose, or 10:30.

Q. What time did you go to the YMCA? A. Shortly 
thereafter.

Q. When did you all first plan among yourselves to go 
to the YMCA? A. That I don’t recall.

Q. I will ask you whether or not there was any plan 
made to go to the YMCA the day before you went? A. 
I don’t think so. I think we planned it that morning, he 
called me at work.

Q. He called you at work that morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this was just an impulse of yours and Mr. 

Stout’s? A. Yes.
Q. Now, Mr. Stout lives in Hueytown which is immedi­

ately adjacent to Bessemer also! A. Yes.

Mr. McEniry: I believe that is all.
The Court: Anything on redirect?
Mr. Adams: Very briefly, your Honor.

Redirect Examination by Mr. Adams;

Q. Mr. Bibb, did Mr. Hurst ask you whether or not you 
really wanted to use the room at the Y or not? A. No.

Q. He didn’t question you about that, did he? A. No.
Q. On the occasion that you went to the Bessemer 

YMCA, was that during the period that you and Mr.

Sammie Bibb, Jr.— Plaintiff—Redirect



34

Stout and others had gone to other facilities seeing whether 
you could use the facilities! A. Yes.

Mr. Adams: That is all.
The Court: All right. You may come down.
(Witness excused)

Mr. Burg: Steve Cotton, please.

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Direct

Steven Cotton, being first duly sworn, testified as fol­
lows:

Direct Examination by Mr. Adams:

Q. State your name to the Court, please! A. Steven 
Cotton.

Q. Where do you live, Mr. Cotton! A. In Cambridge, 
Massachusetts.

Q. Are you attending school at Harvard! A. Yes; I 
am a senior at Harvard College.

Q. Have you ever lived in Birmingham, Alabama! A. 
Yes; I have.

Q. What was the occasion for you living in Birmingham! 
A. I was working as the Birmingham correspondent of 
the Southern Courier which is a weekly style newspaper 
house in Montgomery.

Q. Do you know where the Bessemer YMCA is located! 
A. Approximately, yes. I have been there.

Q. I direct your attention to December 7, 1965. On that 
occasion did you go to the Bessemer YMCA! A. Yes, sir, 
I did.

The Court: December 27th!
Mr. Adams: December 7th.



35

Q. Tell the Court just what you did on December 7, 
1965, at the Bessemer YMCA? A. I entered the Besse­
mer YMCA and went up to a desk and asked the clerk 
if I  could spend the night there. He said, yes, and pro­
ceeded to write me out a slip of paper, charged me, as 
I recall, about $1.50 and handed me the receipt and di­
rected me to my room.

Q. Is this the receipt that was given you on December 
7th by a person working at the YMCA in Bessemer! A. 
Yes, it was.

Q. Can you tell us, by looking at that receipt, how much 
you paid for the room? A. Well, a total of $1.50. The 
room rent itself was $1.00, and he charged me 50 cents 
for a membership fee.

Q. What room was rented to you? A. Boom No. 311, 
a third floor room.

Mr. Adams: I would like to offer this as plain­
tiffs’ exhibit 1.

(Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 1 received in evidence.)

Q. I would like to ask you, Mr. Cotton, did anyone 
there give you any forms to fill out in connection with 
getting a room at the Bessemer Y? A. No, no one gave 
me anything to fill out. I simply got the receipt that he 
filled out, and he directed me to my room.

Q. Was this a man? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did anyone ask you whether you were a member of 

the YMCA? A. No; they did not.
Q. Did anyone show you a form like that? A. No. I 

have never seen this form before.

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Direct



36

Mr. Adams: We would like to offer this residence 
application as Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 2.

(Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 2 received in evidence)

Q. Were you ever give any dormitory regulations or 
anything of that nature? A. No.

Q. Did you ever see a paper like that? A. I was never 
shown this paper.

Mr. Adams: We would like to offer this as Plain­
tiffs’ Exhibit 3.

(Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 3 received in evidence.)

Q. Did anyone ask you about your church affiliation? A. 
No; they did not.

Q. Or what religion you professed interest in? A. No; 
they did not.

Q. Now, as a matter of fact, did you go and use the 
accommodations at the Bessemer YMCA, the room that is? 
A. Yes, I did.

Q. Just tell the Court what you did after you—did you 
pay your $1.50? A. I paid my $1.50, and that was at 
the time he gave me the receipt. He showed me to my room 
and left me there.

Q. Was this a single room? A. Yes; it was.
Q. That is on the third floor? A. That’s right.
Q. And on that particular day did you attempt to use 

the cafeteria facilities? A. I did.
Q. Will you tell the Court just what you did after you 

got your room at the Bessemer YMCA? A. After get­
ting my room and entering it, and unpacking my valise, 
I went downstairs, went outside and through a side en­

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Direct



37

trance to the cafeteria. I had seen a sign outside adver­
tising dinner in the cafeteria. I went in there and went 
to the back and purchased a dinner that night.

Q. Now, do you know who was in charge of this dinner! 
A. It was a dinner, there were a half dozen men there 
dressed in yellow vests that said, as I recall, Lions Club, 
on it, and it turned out to be some sort of Lions Club 
benefit. They were selling box dinners, I believe, for 
about $1.25.

Q. You were served as a person getting a box dinner 
through the Lions Club; is that correct! A. As I recall, 
yes. It was served to me, they were very solicitous, they 
served me a dinner and brought my beverage to me.

Q. After you were served, what did you do! A. After 
I was served and paid for the meal, I returned and looked 
around the Y a little hit, and returned to my room and 
laid down and had a nap.

Q. I believe you left after spending some few hours 
there; is that correct! A. That’s right.

Q. Now, have you been to the Bessemer YMCA since 
then any time! A. Yes, I have. I returned, as I recall, 
in September, 1966, just for the purpose of seeing whether 
I could get a meal there.

Q. And could you get a meal there! A. When I re­
turned in September of ’66, I could not. I returned to the 
cafeteria area. It was set up, as I recall, table cloths 
and china as if for some banquet, and I asked if it was 
possible to get a meal on that occasion, and they told me 
it was not, another group had the cafeteria and they 
were not serving meals to just anyone off the street.

Q. Did you attempt to use the dormitory facilities at 
the Y on that occasion! A. On that occasion, I did not.

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Direct



38

Q. Was your purpose in going to the YMCA on the 
7th to see whether you could get a room, in fact, without 
an application? A. That is December 7, 1965?

Q. Yes. A. Yes, it was.
Q. You actually were living here in Birmingham on that 

occasion; is that correct? A. Yes. I had an apartment 
in Birmingham.

Mr. Adams: I believe that is all.

Cross Examination by Mr. Patton-.

Q. Mr. Cotton, where do you live, please? A. I live in 
Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Q. You are a student at Harvard? A. Yes. I am a 
senior at Harvard College.

Q. Where is your residence, where do you live? A. My 
permanent address is in Chicago.

Q. In December, 1965, you were living in Birmingham? 
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you attending any school at that time? A. 
No; I was not.

Q. Where did you live in Birmingham? A. I had an 
apartment on 28th Street South.

Q. And you were working for some newspaper? A. 
Yes; I was working for a weekly newspaper.

Q. What was the name of the paper? A. The Southern 
Courier.

Q. What was your job with the newspaper? A. Bir­
mingham correspondent for the newspaper.

Q. At whose request did you go out to the Bessemer 
YMCA on the 7th of December, ’65? A. At the request 
of Attorney Adams.

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Cross



39

Q. Attorney Adams sent you out there? A. Yes.
Q. You say this was a single room you were in? A. It 

was a room, as I recall, with one bed in it.
Q. What was the room number? A. As I recall, it was 

311.
Q. Does it show on your receipt? Does that give your 

room number on the receipt? A. Yes; it does.
Q. Room 311 is the room you were in? A. Yes.
Q. It had one bed in it? A. As I recall, yes, sir.
Q. Now, you said that you ate dinner there at the 

YMCA on that night? A. On that night, yes.
Q. Where was this sign you saw? You said you saw a 

sign that said restaurant or cafeteria, where was it? A. 
It didn’t say restaurant or cafeteria. I believe it said 
something on the order of shrimp dinner.

Q. You did not see a sign— A. No, this was some sort 
of make-shift sign that pointed to the side entrance of the 
cafeteria.

Q. Had you known before you went there they were 
having some sort of dinner that day? A. No.

Q. You said there was some men in yellow coats? A. 
Yellow vests.

Q. Do you know whether they were members of the Lion 
Club? A. As I recall, I believe they said Lions Club.

Q. Was that a shrimp or oyster supper? A. I believe 
it was shrimp.

Q. Were the Lions doing the serving? A. Lions in these 
vests were doing the serving, and there were also some 
women sitting at a cash box with no vests on. I have no 
idea whether they were affiliates of the Lions Club or 
employees of the Y.

Q. What time of day did you get out there to get the 
room? A. Late afternoon or early evening.

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Cross



40

Q. About what time? A. I would say on the order of 
5 o’clock. I would say 5 o’clock, give or take an hour.

Q. Did you have any luggage with you? A. Yes, I had 
one valise.

Q. Do you remember who you first saw when you went 
there? A. I remember all I did, I walked up and this 
was upstairs into the Y and around to the clerk’s desk.

Q. Was it a man or boy, what age person was he? A. 
He had gray hair. I couldn’t remember what age he was, 
but he was a grown man.

Q. Did they ask you any questions about where you were 
from? A. Not as I know of.

Q. You deny signing or filling in an application? A. I 
don’t deny it. I simply say he did not give me an appli­
cation.

Q. How long did you stay in your room? A. I stayed 
in my room for about a half hour before going down­
stairs to see about the cafeteria and getting some dinner.

Q. Then you came back to your room after that? A. 
Yes, I did.

Q. How long did you stay there then? A. It is hard 
to say, but I lay down and had a nap, and stayed there 
for two or three hours.

Q. And left; you didn’t spent the night there? A. At 
that point I knew I could spend the night. That was my 
room for the night. I was very uncomfortable in the 
room; it was very hot in that room, and there was no 
point in spending the night, and at that time I checked out.

Q. You went back in September of 1966, and at whose 
request? A. Frankly, I don’t know. I do recall telling 
Mr. Adams what happened the first time, and pointed 
out to him there seemed to be some special function in the 
cafeteria. I really don’t recall whether he specifically re­

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Cross



41

quested from me to go back and return again, or I simply 
told him at my earliest convenience I would return to 
see whether on a night that doesn’t have a special func­
tion they do use the cafeteria.

Q. Where were you living in September, ’66! A. In 
the same apartment I had.

Q. In Birmingham! A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Patton: I think that is all.
Mp\ Adams: No further questions.
(Witness excused)
Mr. Adams: Your Honor, at this time we would 

like to introduce the interrogatories that have been 
answered in this case. We filed interrogatories 
several months ago, and we filed additional inter­
rogatories which all have been answered, and we 
would like to introduce those into evidence.

The Court: What is the significance in the inter­
rogatories! Is there something significant you want 
to direct the Court’s attention to!

Mr. Adams: The entire interrogatories, the an­
swers thereto, and I want the Court to look at them.

The Court: I don’t know whether the answers 
have been put on file.

Mr. McEniry: The answers to the second group 
are actually not due until tomorrow. There they 
are. We have them, but they were served on the 
day after Thanskgiving. I think they were put in 
the mail prior to that time, but the bar association 
closes from Wednesday until the following Monday.

The Court: I don’t see the interrogatories in the 
file.

Steven Cotton—for Plaintiff—Cross



42

Colloquy

Mr. Adams: We have a copy which we can use.
The Court: All right.
Mr. Adams: Do you have the additional answers?
The Court: Yes, they are here.
Mr. Adams: I would like at this point to ask 

that the plaintiff’s exhibits and the answers be re­
ceived.

The Court: They will be admitted.
Mr. Adams: I would like to call Mr. Hurst who 

is the general secretary for the Y as an adverse 
witness.

The Court: All right.
Mr. Adams: First of all, I would like to offer 

the deposition of Mr. Hurst which has been taken 
and filed of record here, into evidence.

Mr. McEniry: May it please the Court, parts of 
that are objectionable. Parts of it are in error. We 
went over the answers. We did not agree it be 
submitted without reading it. We have read it, 
and there are some answers that are in error.

There is an answer which says 10 per cent per 
plate from the cafeteria, and I think it should be 
ten cents; and there is another place where he says 
the fees are $5.00 a year for the health club, and 
$24.00 a year for the YMCA, and that is in error.

Mr. Patton: The witness is here, your Honor.
The Court: They can correct those matters. Of 

course, he is managing agent for the defendant, 
and the deposition is admissible in evidence, but 
we don’t want to duplicate the matter by introduc­
ing it in evidence.

Mr. Adams: That is why I wanted to put it in.



43

Colloquy

The Court: Have you covered everything? Is 
there something else that you want to ask him? If 
you offer it, the Court will have to read it. If 
there is anything you haven’t covered in here, and 
you want me to read this, you can ask him and 
supplement this deposition, but I don’t see any need 
to go over it again.

Mr. Adams: I am familiar with that. I just want 
to introduce it.

The Court: It is admitted.

(Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5 received in evidence)
Mr. Adams: I understand Mr. McEniry reserved 

the right to go over it and I thought he had gone 
over it.

Mr. McEniry: It was given to me Thursday after­
noon, and asked me to read it and return it Fri­
day. I took it home Thursday afternoon and read it.

Mr. Adams: If there are some substantial points 
he says are not right—

The Court: You can ask him right now. Do you 
want to ask him any questions?

Mr. Adams: Yes, sir.
The Court: Proceed, and he can correct the depo­

sition on cross examination. You can correct it on 
direct, if you wish.

Mr. Adams: Let me ask Mr. McEniry, is there 
any question about the accuracy of Mr. Hurst’s 
statement concerning the dormitory facilities?

Mr. McEniry: No.
Mr. Adams: That was one of the main points I 

was concerned about.



44

Cloyce H urst, being first duly sworn, testified as fol­
lows:

Direct Examination by Mr. Adams:

Q. Your name is what? A. Cloyce Hurst.
Q. You are the General Secretary of the Bessemer 

YMCA? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I believe at page 32 of your deposition you 

state that 53 to 54 per cent of your budget comes from 
the Jefferson County Community Chest; is that correct? 
A. Somewhere near there. I don’t know exactly what the 
amount is. It is a little over 50 per cent.

Q. Would you tell the Court, Mr. Hurst, just what the 
Jefferson County Community Chest is?

The Court: It is the United Appeal.
A. It is the United Appeal.

Q. For the record, I am sure the Court knows, but for 
the record, how does the Jefferson County Community 
Chest derive its funds? A. From the general public as 
people care to give to the United Fund.

Q. How did they determine how much is given to, say, 
the Bessemer YMCA? A. We have a Budget Committee 
that works out a Budget and they have a budget team 
that comes out to Bessemer and meets with the Budget 
Committee, and the budget team goes back to the full 
committee and approves or disapproves the budget.

Q. I think the amount of your budget for the last two 
years is in your deposition; is that not correct? A. I beg 
your pardon.

Q. I say the amount of the budget for the Y  has al­
ready been stated by you; is that correct? A. Yes; it is 
in there.

Q. And do you know whether, say, the United Appeal

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Direct



45

has authority to solicit for the City of Bessemer and the
City of Birmingham for those in this area?

Mr. McEniry: I object to that.
The Court: I think the Court would take judicial 

knowledge of the fact. It is a county-wide solicita­
tion.

A. That is correct, a county-wide, Jefferson County.

Mr. McEniry: The question was, so it doesn’t get 
into the record, is whether they have permission 
from the City of Bessemer and the City of Birming­
ham. I don’t think they have to have permission.

The Court: I don’t think so either. Have you 
had to have permission?

A. No.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Direct

Mr. Adams: You are referring to who?
The Court: The United Appeal.

A. I don’t have anything to do with the United Appeal.

The Court: You don’t solicit funds?

A. No.
Q. You get money from them? A. Yes.

The Court: They simply help meet your budget ?

A. That’s right, that is all they do.
Q. Mr. Hurst, do you recall the plaintiffs, Sammie Bibb 

and Blevin Stout talking with you on November 17th, 
1965? A. Yes, sir, I remember.



46

Q. Did they ask you for an application for member­
ship? A. No; they did not.

Q. Did they ask you to allow them to have rooms at 
the Bessemer YMCA? A. They asked for a room, yes.

Q. Did they ask yon to let them use the cafeteria facili­
ties? A. I told them we didn’t serve the general public. 
That is the first thing they wanted to know was. about the 
meals.

Q. Now, Mr. Hurst, I will ask you whether or not you 
stated to Mr. Stout and Mr. Bibb, said if you are waiting 
for membership, you might as well go because we cannot 
let you file application for membership at the Y. A. I 
don’t recall saying that statement at all.

Q. What did the plaintiffs say about rooms to you? A. 
They asked for a room, and I told them we served only 
permanent residents, when they lived there, worked in 
businesses and plants; we did not serve itinerants.

Q. But, as a matter of fact, yon do serve itinerants, 
is that right? A. Well, we do occasionally, but we don’t 
have many rooms, and the rooms we have are usually full, 
and it is occasionally that we do have a room we rent. 
We do not keep rooms for itinerants. We tell them to 
go to Birmingham for usually our rooms are full.

Q. You do state you have rented rooms to itinerants? 
A. Occasionally.

Q. And you rented a room to Mr. Cotton, didn’t you? 
A. I am not aware of the fact, but I think our business 
secretary did rent one, according to the receipt he had.

Mr. Adams: Judge, I don’t want to go into all 
of these things because they have been covered in 
the deposition.

The Court: All right, I will have to read the 
deposition. It will save time.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Direct



47

Mr. Adams: There is one correction I think we 
can make now on the deposition.

Q. In questioning you at page 6, you stated in answer 
to the question: “Q. How many dormitory rooms are 
there?” A. Forty-six is what it is supposed to be. We 
have 12 doubles and 34 singles.

The Court: What page is that on?
Mr. Adams: Page 6.
The Court: The answer is “We have 27 rooms.”

A. We have 46 rooms in the building, and we have 58 
beds. We have 12 doubles and 34 singles.

The Court: Forty-six rooms?

A. Yes, 12 doubles and 34 singles.
Q. Mr. Hurst, I believe you have stated in your deposi­

tion that the application for membership must be approved 
by the Board of Directors of the Y, and you said also 
in your deposition usually you hear from that within 
about a month, and you also stated some mechanics for 
filing application for membership.

I will ask you, Mr. Hurst, what happens to the appli­
cations in the event and after they are submitted to the 
board of directors? A. First the application is filled in 
and turned over to the membership committee. The mem­
bership committee then goes over the membership, and 
if there is anything, then they bring it before the board 
of directors. They have a meeting once a month.

Q. After they go over the application, how do you know 
whether they have been accepted or not? A. The com­
mittee or the board approves it or disapproves it.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Direct



48

Q. They notify yon? A. By the hoard, yes.
Q. On page 27 of your deposition you state that Negroes 

have applied in 1966 and 1967. What has been the result 
of those applications? A. The membership—I turned it 
over to the membership committee, and they haven’t been 
back to see if it was approved or not.

Q. Have you heard anything from the membership com­
mittee, or the board of directors about the application for 
Negroes in 1966 for membership? A. As far as I know, 
it is still in the membership committee.

Q. You haven’t heard anything, whether they have been 
accepted or rejected? A. No, sir. It is in the member­
ship committee.

Q. Have you received some answers from other appli­
cations for membership since Negroes applied for mem­
bership? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you usually hear from the board within 30 days 
after you submit the application forms? A. As a rule, 
the membership committee submits it to the board of 
directors and once a month we have a monthly report, a 
regular monthly meeting.

Q. Do you see that report? A. Yes, sir; we do.
Q. Have you seen anything with reference to those Ne­

groes’ applications for 1966? A. No, sir.

Mr. Adams: I have no further questions, your 
Honor.

The Court: Do you have any questions?

Cross Examination by Mr. McEniry:

Q. Mr. Hurst, first, on the cafe or cafeteria, the eating 
establishment that is run at the YMCA. Is there a room 
downstairs on the basement level, we will call it, where 
groups or clubs meet? A. Yes, sir, there is.

Gloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Cross



49

Q. Has the YMCA ever, under any circumstances that 
you can think of in the past five years, ever served meals 
and sold them to the general public? A. No, sir.

Q. That is run by a caterist? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And she serves organizations, civil clubs? A. That’s 

right.
Q. This caterist does not serve individuals who come in 

for a meal? A. That’s right.
Q. In other words, no individual can walk in there and 

be served? A. That’s right.
Q. The Lions Club, once a year for the past two or three 

years has on one night served an oyster supper? A. Yes, 
sir.

Q. Is that the only occasion when the public can go in 
and order a meal? A. That’s right.

Q. That happens one time a year? A. Yes.
Q. And the Lions Club is no longer using the YMCA 

for that? A. No, sir; they are not.
Q. The only connection that the YMCA has with this 

restaurant is that it is run in the YMCA and we are paid 
10 cents a plate by the caterist to cover purchase and re­
placement of the kitchen hours? A. Yes, sir.

Q. If we come to the physical layout of the YMCA, the 
first floor has this place, the Civic Eoom, it is called? A. 
Yes, sir.

Q. And in addition, it has locker rooms and a health 
club? A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Adams: Judge, I don’t want to interfere 
with Mr. McEnirv. We could have gone into that, 
but that is in the deposition.

Mr. McEniry: I never asked a question on the 
deposition, and I think I had possibly better cross

Gloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Cross



50

examine and straighten some of these mis-impres- 
sions in here that are not clear. I didn’t ask a ques­
tion on the deposition because I was planning on 
him being at the hearing.

Mr. Adams: He had opportunity to ask.
Mr. McEniry: I am not precluded from asking 

other questions, I don’t believe.
The Court: No, if you didn’t interrogate him 

then.
Mr. McEniry: I did not. Mr. Patton nor I asked 

a single question on this.

Q. The downstairs has the locker room and the health 
club? A. Yes.

Q. The health club is a separate organization of the 
YMCA? A. Yes.

Q. To he a member of the health club, you have to join 
the YMCA and the health club? A. Yes, sir.

Q. In order to come into this health club, you must be 
recommended by one of the members and pass the health 
club committee; is that correct? A. Yes, sir.

Q. There are what, some 70 members, did you testify 
some 70 to 80? A. Somewhere along there.

Q. On the second floor of the YMCA there is the gen­
eral lobby, the boys, where they play, some pool tables 
and the gymnasium? A. Yes.

Q. There is a pool on the bottom floor? A. In the 
basement.

Q. Above that, what would then be the third and fourth 
and second and third floors, are the residence rooms? A. 
Yes, sir.

Q. I believe you have testified as to the number of 
singles and doubles that there are there? A. Yes. sir.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Cross



51

Q. Mr. Hurst, have you run back the number of people 
who stayed in the Bessemer YMCA during the year 19651 
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell me how many people stayed there for less— 
first, did you do that to determine how many people 
stayed there for less than one week? A. Yes.

Q. How many? A. I think there was six.
Q. Six people during the entire year 1965 stayed there 

for less than a week? A. Yes.
Q. Your normal resident there, what is his occupation; 

does he work in Bessemer? A. Yes. They work at the 
Pullman Plant, and pipe shop, National Bridge and TCI. 
We have one or two that are retired that lived there 
permanently, and we usually—most of the time most of 
them are ones that work in Bessemer and live there.

Q. That is the purpose of that dormitory? A. That’s 
right.

Q. Is there a sign on any road, federal, state, or county, 
leading into Bessemer indicating that the YMCA has rooms 
to rent? A. No.

Q. Is there any sign on any road to Bessemer indicating 
that the YMCA has any food facilities? A. No.

Q. Did you also run that same study for the year 1966? 
A. That is five.

Q. You had five that stayed there for less than a week? 
A. That’s right.

Q. The five or six that has been in the past two years, 
would they just drop into the YMCA, just hunting that 
YMCA? A. They came there hunting for a room.

Q. I will ask you if it isn’t a fact many of those are 
visiting people in Bessemer and they don’t have a room 
for them to sleep in and they come in there? A. Yes, sir.

Q. It is unusual, to the furtherest degree, for a traveler,

Gloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Cross



52

the man on the highway, to come in and stay at the Besse­
mer YMCA?

Mr. Adams: I don’t think he would know that.
The Court: I think he would.

A. We don’t have any rooms available, and we don’t keep 
itinerant rooms. We try, if there are rooms available, we 
try to send them to the Birmingham Y. As that boy can 
testify, our rooms are not very good rooms. They are 
small rooms and old rooms.

Mr. Adams: I object to the unresponsive answer 
to the question, and giving an opinion.

The Court: Sustain the objection.

Q. On the occasion that Mr. Stout and Mr. Bibb came 
in there, was or not the YMCA full to capacity? A. It 
was.

Q. Every room was taken? A. That’s right. We had 
five waiting on our waiting list to get a single room.

Q. At that time? A. At that time? Yes, sir.
Q. Now, you have heard the testimony? Did they ask 

anything about organizations? A. They did not.
Q. Did they ask anything about food? A. They asked 

to be served. I was down at the Kiwanis Club, and I was 
down eating, and it was between 12:30 and 1 o’clock, and 
they came and called me. I came upstairs, and the first 
thing they asked was to be served to eat. I told them 
we did not serve the general public, and they asked about 
the dormitory rooms.

Q. They did not say anything about any orgnization? 
A. They did not even mention the organization.

Q. Boom 311, do you know Room 311? A. Yes.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Cross



53

Q. Is it a single or double? A. It is a double room, 
two beds in it.

Q. Two beds in Room 311? A. That’s right.
Q. I believe you testified you had never seen Mr. Cotton 

before? A. I haven’t seen him before.

Mr. McEniry: I believe that is all, Judge.

Redirect Examination by Mr. Adams:

Q. Mr. Hurst, is the Y listed in any National Directory 
of the YMCA, the Bessemer Y? A. Yes, it is.

Q. And you say, I believe, there have been six vacancies 
rented to itinerants in the year 1965? A. Yes.

The Court: ’65 or ’66?

A. ’65. We had six, I believe in ’66. We have had 11 in 
about two years is about what I said.

Q. Did you inquire as to whether or not they were mem­
bers of the Y when they rented a room? A. No, sir.

Q. Did you rent the room to all of these particular 
people? A. No, sir; I didn’t rent any of them. They 
are supposed to fill out an application. Everyone that 
comes there, they are asked to fill out an application.

Q. But you don’t know whether they do or do not fill 
out such application, do you? A. No, sir; I do not.

Q. And you don’t know whether or not they are local 
people or somebody from out of the state, do you, your­
self personally? A. After they rent a room, then we 
have a record of it, of the people that stay there, but 
when they make the application, I don’t know.

The Court: These 11 people, do you know where 
they are from?

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Redirect



54

A. Yes; we have the list there somewhere. I don’t believe 
we have a single one of them out of the state.

Q. Do you know whether you complete an application 
form for everybody? A. Supposed to, yes.

Q. You don’t know that you do it, do you? A. I do 
not know for sure, no.

Q. You heard Mr. Cotton testify he didn’t fill out an 
application form? A. He was supposed to. We have 
orders for everyone to fill out an application. That is 
the rule.

Q. But the rule does not necessarily hold at all times? 
A. It is supposed to.

Q. How did you make a determination, Mr. Hurst, as 
to how many people rented rooms? A. By the cards.

Q. By the cards? A. When they put a card in the file 
when they use it, I have a file there, and when we rent 
a room, we put it in the directory.

Q. When you rent a room, you put a card in there; is 
that right? A. That’s right.

Q. What is that card called? A. The date, the pay and 
where they work, the name and address.

Q. Do you have a card in there for Mr. Steve Cotton? 
A. Yes, sir; supposed to have one in there.

Q. Do you have one in there? A. I don’t know. I 
couldn’t tell you. We were supposed to have one for 
every man that comes in there.

Q. But you say you do not ask them whether or not 
they are members of the Y or of a Y? A. No.

Q. I believe you said in your deposition, Mr. Hurst, 
that you have to usually be recommended by a friend, or 
brought in by a friend before you let a person have an 
itinerant room? A. No, sir; I  didn’t say that.

Cloyce Hurst— for Plaintiff—Redirect



55

Q. You didn’t say that? A. No, sir; I  sure did not, 
not an itinerant room, I didn’t say that.

Mr. Adams: That is all.
The Court: If there is nothing further, you may 

come down.
(Witness excused)

The Court: Do you have a list of the individuals ?
Mr. McEniry: Yes. It is just in writing, Judge.
The Court: That will be all right. All of them 

appear to he residents of the state.
Mr. McEniry: Yes, sir.
The Court: Do you have any further evidence to 

offer?
Mr. McEniry: No, sir.
The Court: We are about to take a recess, and 

I didn’t want to keep you over the recess.
I can’t tell what some of them are on the ad­

dresses.
Mr. McEniry: We have some that just indicate 

the name and one night only written on the card.
Mr. Adams: Judge, we would like to ask him 

one more question if there is going to he a recess 
and he can he brought hack.

The Court: We will take a 20 minute recess at 
this time.

(Mid-morning recess)

The Court: All right.
Mr. Adams: If the Court please, we want to ask 

Mr. Hurst another question or two.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Redirect



56

Cloyce H urst, thereupon resumed the witness stand and 
testified further as follows:

Redirect Examination— Cont’d.

Ry Mr. Adams—Resumed:
Q. Mr. Hurst, is there a constitution and by-laws of the 

Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama? 
A. Yes, sir, there is.

Q. Is this a copy of the constitution? A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Adams: I would like to offer this as plain­
tiffs’ exhibit.

(Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 6 received in evidence)

Q. There are no restrictions, so far as race is concerned, 
in your constitution and by-laws for membership? A. No, 
sir.

Q. The Bessemer YMCA is a corporation, is it not? A. 
Yes, sir.

Q. What is the name of the corporation? A. Young 
Men’s Christian Association.

Q. Incorporated? A. Incorporated.
Q. Is it part of the title of Bessemer, Alabama? A. I 

really couldn’t tell you.
Q. I believe it says, Constitution and By-laws of the 

Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama, 
Incorporated, is that correct? A. I  would say so.

The Court: It would more or less have to be, be­
cause the Y’s are incorporated throughout the state. 

Mr. Adams: I  would like to amend my complaint. 
The Court: It will be considered as amended.

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Redirect



57

Q. On page 14 in your deposition, Mr. Hurst, you said, 
“We don’t have any transients at all. They are usually 
here for the winter to live in the building and work in the 
local factories and businesses” . A. Did I say winter! I 
don’t think I said winter. I don’t know why I would say 
winter. I did not say it. I haven’t read it. If I said it, I 
don’t believe I said it, hut it must have been misunderstood. 
I didn’t mean to say winter.

The Court: What page is that on?
Mr. Adams: Page 14.

A. I don’t know why I would say that. I said they usually 
stay there permanently. I didn’t mean for the winter 
months. They stay there the year round.

The Court: The words “ for the winter”—

A. I don’t remember saying that.

The Court: It is down here, but you didn’t mean 
to say it?

A. I don’t believe I said it.

The Court: You state this: “We don’t have any 
transients at all. They’re usually here for the win­
ter” .

A. I didn’t say that. All I said was as a rule we don’t have 
any transients.

Q. Do you know whether or not you have residents that 
you call permanent residents located at the Bessemer 
YMCA that are from out of town? A. Well, they work

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Redirect



58

there, they have a home, probably, in Gadsden, or some­
where else. They work at Pullman or National Bridge, 
they have a home somewhere else. They stay there and go 
home on weekends, but what we call transients are ones 
that stay less than a week.

Q. What is the average period of time, would you say, 
people live at the Y? A. The biggest majority of them 
stay as long as they have jobs at Pullman. The biggest part 
of our transients work at Pullman, or IT. S. Pipe, or Na­
tional Bridge, and when the job is cut off, they leave.

Q. You have a large percentage of your people working 
at Pullman? A. That’s right. Seventy-five per cent work 
at Pullman.

Q. You say most of them live in some other place in the 
State of Alabama? A. That’s right.

Q. And they go home on the weekend; is that right? A. 
That’s right.

Q. You also testified, I believe, or you stated in your 
deposition, you had 38 rooms rented as of the first of the 
month? A. I said approximately, I don’t know just how 
many we had, somewhere along in there.

Q. You wouldn’t say you did not say that? A. No, sir, 
I said approximately 38. I didn’t know for sure how many- 
we had.

Q. And you have 47 or 46 rooms? A. We have 46 rooms.
Q. Now, have you instructed the personnel who rent 

rooms when you are not present, to accept or not accept 
people when they come in if rooms were vacant? A. If a 
person comes in drunk, or out of character, we would, of 
course, turn them down. If there is any question in the 
normal procedure, we take the application and pass on it.

Q. If the room is vacant, Mr. Hurst, and the person that 
comes in is not drunk, then is it not correct the room would

Gloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Redirect



59

be rented to that person? A. If it was normal procedure, 
we would.

Q. You don’t require transient people to go through the 
board of directors before they could get a room there? A. 
No. They are supposed to fill out the application, and if 
there is any question about it—

Q. But if nothing unusual, you rent the room? A. That’s 
right, if it is available.

Q. And you don’t inquire as to whether or not they live 
in the State of Alabama or out of the state, do you? A. 
No, sir; we do not.

The Court: Is there a colored YMCA in Bessemer? 

A. No, sir.

Mr. Adams: No colored YMCA or YWCA either.

Q. Is that right? A. No, there is not.
Q. So your YMCA is the only Y there, is that not right? 

A. That’s right.
Q. Is there anybody here from the board of directors of 

the Bessemer Y? A. Yes, sir, the president of the board 
is back there.

Mr. Adams: That is all.
The Court: I notice in here one place you said you 

had 3,070 different membership applications in 1966. 
Are those health club or Y?

A. No, sir, that is total membership, boys and girls, men 
and women, everything. That includes the dormitory.

The Court: Do they file a new application every 
year?

Cloyce Hurst—for Plaintiff—Redirect



60

A. When they come in they put the application in.

The Court: It sounds like a lot of applications.

A. We have to sign them up when they first come in, get 
their name and address and telephone numbers.

The Court: All right, gentlemen, do you have any­
thing further!

Mr. Adams: I would like to ask one question of 
the president of the board.

The Court: All right. You may come down.

(Witness excused)
The Court: Who is your witness!
Mr. Adams: The president of the board.
Mr. McEniry: Come around, please, Mr. Dean.

Jason Dean—for Plaintiff—Direct

Jason D ean, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Mr. Adams-.

Q. State your name, please, sir! A. Jason Dean.
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Dean! A. Bessemer.
Q. And your address is what! A. 118 Woodland Hoad. 
Q. Do you have any official connection with the Bessemer 

YMCA! A. At the present time I am Chairman of its 
official board.

Q. How long have you been chairman! A. The year 
1967.

Q. Have you been a member of the board before that 
time! A. Yes.

Q. How long have you been a member of the board! A. 
It is a three year term. At the present time I am in the



61

second year of a three year term. Board members are 
elected for three years.

Q. Mr. Hurst has testified that in 1966 Negroes applied 
for membership, and in the normal course of events the 
membership committee would submit it to the board of 
directors. Have you received any such applications as a 
member of the hoard of directors, as chairman? A. These 
memberships are presented to the boards and acted on by 
the board as a recommendation to the committee, the mem­
bership committee.

Q. How quickly do you act on the membership applica­
tions, usually? A. It is on a 30 day basis.

Q. In other words, the membership application is sub­
mitted to you and either accepted or rejected on a 30 day 
basis; is that correct? A. On any recommendation made 
by the membership committee is acted on.

Q. Have you ever turned down any memberships that 
have been recommended by the membership committee? 
A. We have turned them down.

Q. Have you received any applications for membership 
of any Negroes? A. I am not familiar with the particular 
race. It comes to us on a name basis.

Q. The race of the person is not in the application? A. 
Not presented to the hoard as such.

Q. Has the question of whether a Negro can or cannot be 
a member ever been discussed in a board meeting? A. It 
has been discussed.

Q. Was any decision reached one way or the other? 
A. No.

Q. Has there ever been Negro members of the Bessemer 
YMCA? A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Have you seen any Negroes participating in any of 
the programs of the Bessemer YMCA during your time that

Jason Dean—for Plaintiff—Direct



62

you have knowledge of what was going on ? A. In general­
ities we have helped out colored programs.

Q. Would you tell us what you mean by that? A. The 
Y Staff, the Physical Ed Director, and I as a member of 
other boards, have helped in lining up—judge, if it be in 
order, I think I might cite an instance in one of the more 
recent happenings.

We meet with the Museooda Employment Association. 
We had three colored ladies who came to our Y in the past 
month asking for help and any help we might give them in 
setting up a program. They have a building and general 
secretary, and our youth director met with these people and 
went to their clubhouse, and we brought them around to 
the Y, and we made some contributions and offered any as­
sistance that our staff could give in setting up a program, 
and made recommendations to them. That is the line in 
which we have been more active.

Q. But they have not participated directly in any of the 
Bessemer YMCA programs? A. No, sir.

Mr. Adams: That is all.
The Court: You may come down.
(Witness excused)

The Court: Any other evidence?
Mr. Adams: That is our case, your Honor.
Mr. McEniry: No, sir.

T he F oregoing W as A ll the T estimony

Jason Dean—for Plaintiff—Direct



63

C E K T I F I C A T E

State of A labama)
Jefferson County(

I hereby certify that the foregoing pages contain a full, 
true and correct transcript of the proceedings had on the 
trial of the matter set out in the style hereof.

/ s /  T homas P. M eador 
Official Court Reporter



64

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 1 

(Receipt to Stephen Cotton)

A No. 531

YOUNG MEN’S CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATION
B essemer, A labama

Name: Stephen Cotton Date 12-7-1965

Address.......................................................... A g e ....................
Men □  Boys □  Women □  Girls □  H. C. □  Family □

Membership Fee .............................................................50
Room Rent No. 311 From 12-7 to 12-8..............  1.00

Deposit, Towel & Key □
New □  Renew □  Cont. □  ...................................
Received Payment.................................. T ota l.......  1.50

R. D.
For Treasurer



65

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 2

(Residence Application of YMCA of Bessemer)

YOUNG MEN’S CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATION 
Bessemer, A labama

Rents and Memberships Payable in Advance

RESIDENCE APPLICATION

I hereby apply for a room in the Y.M.C.A. of Bessemer, 
Alabama, on the understanding that I am in hearty sym­
pathy with the principles and policies of the YMCA; that 
all applications be made subject to the approval of the 
Board of Directors, and that the right is reserved by said 
Board to refuse any application without giving reason 
thereof.

If admitted, I agree to actively co-operate in forwarding 
the interest of the YMCA of Bessemer, Alabama. I further 
agree to abide by all rules and regulations of the YMCA 
Dormitory rules as may be made by said Board of Directors 
from time to time.

Date of Application.............................
Pull Name ....................-............................... Age ..............
Present Home Address...........................................................
Business Address........................... Name of Firm ................
Nature of Business.......... ...............Your Position...............
Single or Married............................... Nationality......... ......
What is your Religious Denomination .................................
Do you attend church Regularly...........Where ....................
Have you ever lived in a YMCA dormitory before.......... .
W here..................W hen....................How long ...................



66

Name of person whom we should notify in case of illness 
or accident,
Name..........................................................Tel. No...................
Address.................................  C ity ..............  State ..............

REFERENCES

Give as reference one man whom you have known during 
the past year in business relations, and one you have known 
in social relations.
Name ...................................  Address ...................................
Name ...................................  Address ...................................
Rents must be paid at least one week in advance or room 
will be declared vacant.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 2



67

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 3

(Dormitory Regulations of YMCA of Bessemer)

DORMITORY REGULATIONS
1. I am in hearty accord with the purpose of the Young 

Men’s Christian Association.

2. The application is made subject to approval by the 
House Committee of the Y.M.C.A. Board of Di­
rectors.

3. Room rents are payable in advance on a weekly or 
monthly basis as set forth by the Board of Directors, 
or room will be declared vacant. Receipt given is 
only evidence of payment.

4. A key deposit of $1.50 and towel deposit of $1.00, 
which deposit is to be refunded upon surrender of 
key and towel.

5. When deemed necessary, tenants will be moved from 
one room to another at the discretion of the Dormi­
tory Secretary.

6. INTOXICATING LIQUORS MUST NOT BE 
BROUGHT INTO THE ROOMS OR ANY PART 
OF THE BUILDING. PROFANE OR OBSCENE 
LANGUAGE UNBECOMING A MEMBER OF 
THIS ASSOCIATION IS STRICTLY FOR­
BIDDEN. GAMBLING IN ANY FORM OR 
PLAYING CARDS IN ROOMS OR IN PART OF 
THE BUILDING IS ABSOLUTELY PROHIB­
ITED. CHECKS IN ROOMS OR IN ANY PART 
OF THE BUILDING WILL BE MADE AND IF 
INTOXICANTS IN ANY FORM ARE FOUND, 
THE ROOM WILL BE DECLARED VACANT.



68

7. Quiet must be observed between the hours of 10 
P.M. and 7 A.M. at all times. Use of radios, musical 
instruments and record players must be such that 
other will not be disturbed.

8. The room shall not be sub-let by tenant and no 
other person is to occupy same without permission 
from office.

9. The use of electric current has practical limits, due 
to the overloading the wiring. Under no circum­
stances is cooking in the rooms or other appliances 
permitted.

10. No women visitors shall be allowed in the dormitory 
at any time.

11. Residents are requested to keep their rooms locked. 
The Association will not be responsible for the loss 
of or damage to the property of a resident by fire, 
or theft or any cause. Valuable may be left tem­
porarily in the safe at the office.

12. Residents are required to observe City ordinances 
and State statutes for smoking in bed or throwing 
anything from windows of the building.

13. Lights must be turned out and windows closed dur­
ing absence from room.

14. No nails shall be driven in rooms. Loss or damage 
beyond ordinary wear shall be paid by tenant. No 
obscene pictures allowed on walls.

15. No solicitors of any kind, nor any deliveries, are 
allowed on residence rooms.

16. C. 0. D. packages will not be accepted unless money 
is left at office to cover charges.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 3



69

17. The night watchman and other employees of the 
Association will report violations of these rules.

18. In any event of the violation of any of these provi­
sions of the above rules, the Association reserves 
the right to terminate the occupancy of the room 
and require the vacating of same. It may also at 
its discretion, refuse to give a reason for such can­
cellation. Upon failure of the resident to vacate the 
room within twenty-four hours, the Association will 
take possession of the room and treat it vacant. In 
any such event, any property remaining in the room, 
belonging to the resident, may be removed and 
stored by the Association and kept (60) sixty days. 
After this period said possessions will be disposed 
of at no risk to the Y. M. C. A.

19. As long as you live here, we expect your cooperation 
in making this the kind of home you would want 
your home to be.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 3



70

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4  

(Interrogatories to Defendant and Answers)

I n the U nited States D istrict Court 

F or the Northern District of A labama 

Southern D ivision 

Civil A ction No. CA 66-715

B levin Stout, et al.,

vs.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of 
B essemer, A labama,

Defendant.

I nterrogatories 

(Filed January 24, 1967)

To: Mr. J. W. Patton, Jr.
Hney, Stone & Patton 
Attorneys at Law 
Suite 414 Kealtv Building 
Bessemer, Alabama

Plaintiffs request that defendant, Young Men's Christian 
Association of Bessemer, Alabama, answer under oath in 
accordance with Buie 33 of the Federal Buies of Civil
Procedure, the following interrogatories:

L List all licenses which have been obtained relative to 
the operation of Young Men's Christian Association of 
Bessemer. Alabama.



71

2. List all local, regional, national or international trade 
associations or organizations to which your establishment 
belongs and state:

a. the nature of the association or organization
b. the address of its headquarters

3. Give dates and places of all advertising of Young 
Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama, on 
radio, television or in newspapers during the last twelve 
months.

4. State the annual gross income of your establishment 
for each of the last two years.

5. State whether or not each of the following items is 
served or sold at your establishment and for each item 
give the brand name or names and the quantity purchased 
by you in each of the past two years:

a. salt
b. pepper
c. coffee
d. tea
e. chocolate
f. beef
g. sea food
h. tobacco
i. chewing gum
j. soft drinks
k. ice cream
l. milk

m. hot chocolate
n. candy

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



72

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

o. clieese
p. sugar
q. spices
r. olives

6. State the name and location, if known, of the manu­
facturer or producer of the above-listed (5a-r) items which 
are served or sold in Young Men’s Christian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama.

7. State the names and post office addresses of all sup­
pliers and wholesalers with whom you do business:

a. situated outside the state of Alabama
b. situated within the state of Alabama

8. With respect to the in-state suppliers and wholesalers 
listed in the answer to interrogatory No. 7, state:

a. the goods or products which you purchase
b. the quantity purchased in each of the past two years

c. the amount spent with each wholesaler or supplier 
in each of the past two years

d. the state from which the goods or products were 
purchased by the wholesaler or supplier with whom 
you do business, if known.

9. State the total amount paid to all suppliers and whole­
salers both in-state and out of the state for each of the 
past two years.

10. State:

a. the number of stools located inside Young Men’s 
Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama on



73

which customers may sit while being served food, 
beverages, and other products

b. the number of tables located inside Young Men’s 
Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama which 
are used for the service of customers or which 
customers may use in the consumption of food, bev­
erages, and other products

c. the number of counters located inside Young Men’s 
Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama at 
which customers may purchase food, beverages, and 
other products for consumption

11. State the names and addresses of all employees of 
the Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, 
Alabama.

12. State the location of your establishment with respect 
to the nearest United States Highway.

13. State whether your establishment has served food 
or beverages or sold other products to interstate travelers.

14. State whether you have ever inquired of your cus­
tomers whether they were interstate travelers.

15. State whether you have ever directed your employees 
to inquire of your customers whether they were interstate 
travelers; if so, when and in what manner.

16. State whether you have ever posted or displayed any 
placard or sign outside or inside your premises purporting 
to limit service at your establishment or elsewhere on the 
premises to persons who were not interstate travelers. If 
so, state:

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



74

a. when this occurred
b. whether such placard or sign was posted or dis­

played on Young Men’s Chiristian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama.

c. whether such placard or sign is still posted or dis­
played on Young Men’s Christian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama.

17. State whether you have ever posted or displayed 
any placard(s) or sign(s) anywhere on the premises of 
Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama 
designating a particular area or facility for the exclusive 
use of white persons. If so, state:

a. the particular area(s) or facility(ies)

b. when such placard(s) or sign(s) was posted

c. whether such placard(s) or sign(s) was posted and 
displayed on Young Men’s Christian Association 
of Bessemer, Alabama

d. whether such placard(s) or sign(s) is presently 
displayed

18. State whether you have ever posted or displayed 
any placard(s) or sign(s) anywhere on the premises of 
Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Alabama 
designating a particular area or facility for the exclusive 
use of Negro or colored persons. If so, state:

a. the particular area(s) or facility(ies)

b. when such placard(s) or sign(s) was posted

c. whether such placard(s) or sign(s) was posted and 
displayed on Young Men’s Christian Association of 
Bessemer, Alabama.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



75

d. whether such placard(s) or sign(s) is presently 
displayed

19. On what date did Young Men’s Christian Association 
of Bessemer, Alabama begin its business operation?

P l e a s e  t a k e  n o t i c e  that a copy of such answers must be 
served upon the undersigned within fifteen (15) days after 
service upon you in accordance with Rule 33 of the Federal 
Buies of Civil Procedure.

/ s /  Oscae W . A dams, Je.
Oscae W . A dams, Je.

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Jack Geeenbeeg

N obman C. A makee

#10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019

Attorneys for Plaintiffs

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that a copy of plaintiffs’ Interrogatories 
was served by United States mail, postage prepaid, di­
rected to Mr. J. W. Patton, Jr., Huey, Patton & Stone, 
Suite 414 Realty Building, Bessemer, Alabama attorney 
for defendant, Young Men’s Christian Association of Besse­
mer, Alabama, this 24th day of January, 1967.

/ s /  Oscae W. A dams, Je.
Attorney fo r Plaintiffs



76

In the U nited States D istrict Couet 

P oe the Northern D isteict of A labama 

Southeen D ivision 

Civil A ction No. CA-66-715

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

Blevin Stout, et al.,

v.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung M en ’s Christian A ssociation 
of Bessemer, A labama,

Defendant.

A dditional I nteeeogatoeies 

(Piled November 22, 1967)

T o : Mr. J. Howard McEniry, Jr.
McEniry, McEniry & McEniry 
1721 Fourth Avenue 
Bessemer, Alabama

Plaintiffs request that defendant, Young Men’s Christian 
Association of Bessemer, Alabama, answer under oath in 
accordance with Buie 33 of the Federal Buies of Civil Pro­
cedure, the following interrogatories:

1. State whether or not the Young Men’s Christian 
Association of Bessemer is a member of the National Coun­
cil of Young Men’s Christian Associations of the United 
States of America.

2. State whether or not the Bessemer Young Men’s 
Christian Association is listed in the official roster of the



77

National Council of Young Men’s Christian Associations of 
the United States.

3. A) If the answer to Interrogatory No. 1 is in the af­
firmative, state whether or not the following are conditions 
and requirements for membership in the National Council 
of Young Men’s Christian Association of the United States:

1. Designation as a Young Men’s Christian Associa­
tion.

2. Organization in conformity with standards estab­
lished by the National Council.

3. Acceptance of the Constitution of the National 
Council.

4. Certification that in spirit and practice the member 
conforms to the Statement of Purpose of the Young 
Men’s Christian Association of the United States.

5. Certification that voting members and members of 
the Board of Control are in accord with the pur­
poses, ideals and spirit of the Young Men’s Chris­
tian Association.

6. Annual payment to the National Council of the mem­
ber’s share of the expenses of the Young Men’s 
Christian Association.

7. Annual submission to the National Council of such 
reports as are specified from time to time.

8. Qualifications of the Chief Employed Officer for 
listing in the official roster of employed officers as 
determined by the National Council from time to 
time.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



78

B) Briefly describe any conditions and requirements 
listed above.

4. Briefly describe tbe goals and purposes of the Besse­
mer Young Men’s Christian Association.

5. Briefly describe the activities of the Bessemer Young 
Men’s Christian Association and the manner in which such 
activities fulfill the goals and purposes of the Bessemer 
Young Men’s Christian Association.

6. List the address of every building owned, operated, 
or leased by the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Associ­
ation in Jefferson County, Alabama.

7. State whether or not the lodgings are available to 
transients at the Fourth Avenue Building of the Bessemer 
Young Men’s Christian Association and indicate the num­
ber of rooms for rent or hire.

8. State whether or not membership is available to the 
general public at the Fourth Avenue Building of the Besse­
mer Young Men’s Christian Association, including Negroes.

9. State whether or not the facilities of a restaurant or 
cafeteria are available to persons lodging at the Fourth 
Street Building and describe the location in the building of 
such restaurant or cafeteria.

10. State whether or not the facilities of any restaurant 
or cafeteria indicated in the answer to the previous Inter­
rogatory (9) are available to all persons residing in Besse­
mer, Alabama, and if available, the terms on which they 
are available.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



79

11. State whether or not all persons including Negroes, 
using any restaurant or cafeteria at the Fourth Avenue 
Building are eligible to rent or hire rooms at the Fourth 
Avenue Building. If not, explain.

12. Estimate the portion of the food and other products 
served at the Fourth Avenue Building restaurant or cafe­
teria which has moved in interstate commerce.

13. Generally describe the recreational and health facili­
ties available at the Fourth Avenue Building.

14. State whether or not the recreational and health 
facilities of the Young Men’s Christian Association of Bes­
semer are available to all persons residing in Bessemer, 
Alabama, and if available, the terms on which they are 
available.

15. If recreational facilities at the Fourth Avenue Build­
ing are available to all persons residing in Bessemer, Ala­
bama, state the procedure followed by local residents to 
become eligible to use said facilities.

16. State whether Blevin Stout and Sammie Bibb, Jr. 
sought membership application blanks or membership cards 
to the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Association, Fourth 
Avenue Division on November 17, 1965.

17. State whether Blevin Stout and Sammie Bibb, Jr. 
sought access to the cafeteria or restaurant and room ac­
commodations of the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian As­
sociation, Fourth Avenue Division on November 17, 1965.

18. If answer to Interrogatories 16 and 17 are in the 
affirmative, state the reason said membership blanks, ser­

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



80

vices and accommodations were denied, if same were de­
nied.

19. State whether or not the Bessemer Young Men’s 
Christian Association excludes persons of the Negro race 
from food, lodging, recreational or other goods, services, 
facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of 
the Fourth Avenue Building.

20. State the number of members of the Bessemer Young 
Men’s Christian Association, Fourth Avenue Division for 
the years 1964, 1965.

21. State the number of members who are of the Negro 
race.

22. Indicate whether or not there are any provisions in 
the by-laws or rules and regulations of the Bessemer Young 
Men’s Christian Association, the Fourth Avenue Division, 
which in any manner pertain to the race of persons to be 
admitted, accepted, or served by defendant Bessemer Young 
Men’s Christian Association or any of its branches. (At­
tach By-laws, Buies and Regulations if convenient).

23. List for each restaurant owned, operated, or fran­
chised by the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Association 
the following:

a. name and address;
b. licenses which have been obtained relative to the 

operation of said facility;

c. annual gross income for the years 1964, 1965;
d. manager of said facility.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



81

24. List all advertisements placed during the last 12 
months by Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Association 
indicating the place, dates and purpose of such advertise­
ments.

25. State the names and addresses of all suppliers and 
wholesalers who have supplied goods and products during 
the years 1964 and 1965 which were sold at the restaurant 
or cafeteria at the Fourth Avenue Division and state the 
general character of goods and products supplied by each.

26. State whether or not each of the following items is

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

served or sold at the restaurant or cafeteria in the Fourth
Avenue Building:

a. salt;
b. pepper;
c. coffee;
d. tea;
e. shrimp;
f. fish;
g- cigarettes;
h. cigars;
i. smoking tobacco;
b chewing gum;
k. sugar;
1. beef;

m. oranges;
n. pineapple.

27. Are contributions to the Bessemer Young Men’s
Christian Association exempt from federal taxes?

28. Is the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Association 
exempt from taxes levied by the state of Alabama?



82

29. Is the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Association 
exempt from taxes levied by the city of Bessemer, Alabama?

30. State the total income of the Bessemer Young Men’s 
Christian Association from all sources for 1964 and 1965 
and itemize the income from each general source, including 
but not limited to :

a. room rentals;

b. food sales;

c. Membership fund.

31. State the following in reference to the Fourth Avenue 
Division of the Bessemer Young Men’s Christian Associa­
tion:

a. the total number of applications received for the 
years 1964 and 1965;

b. the names of all Negro applicants for 1964 and 1965;

c. the names of the applicants whose applications were 
denied for 1964 and 1965.

Please take notice that a copy of such answers must be 
served upon the undersigned counsel for plaintiffs within 
fifteen (15) days after service upon you in accordance with 
Buie 33 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



83

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4 

Bespectfully submitted,

/ s /  Oscar W . A dams, Jr.

Oscar W . A dams, Jr.
H arvey M. B urg

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama

Jack Greenberg 
Norman C. A maker 

10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019

Attorneys fo r Plaintiffs

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that a copy of plaintiffs’ Interrogatories 
was served by United States mail, postage pre-paid, di­
rected to Mr. J. Howard McEniry, Jr., McEniry, McEniry 
& McEniry, 1721 Fourth Avenue, Bessemer, Alabama, at­
torney for defendant, Young Men’s Christian Association 
of Bessemer, Alabama, this 22nd day of November, 1967.

/ s /  Oscar W . A dams, Jr.

Oscar W . A dams, Jr.
H arvey M. B urg

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Attorneys for Plaintiffs



84

Ik the U nited States D istrict Court 

F or the N orthern D istrict oe A labama 

Southern D ivision 

Civil A ction N o. CA 66-715

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

Blevin Stout, et al.,

vs.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation 
of B essemer, A labama,

Defendant.

A nswer to Interrogatories

(Filed December 11, 1967)

To: Oscar W. Adams, Jr.
1630 Fourth Avenue, N.
Birmingham, Alabama 25203

The following are the answers to the Plaintiff’s Interroga­
tories numbered 1-19, directed to the Defendant pursuant to 
Buie 33 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

1. None.
2. National Council of YMCA,

291 Broadway,
New York, New York.
Southern Area Council of YMCA’s,
1611 Kindler Building,
Atlanta, Georgia.

3. We do not advertise on radio, television or newspaper.



85

4. Gross income for calendar year 1965 ..............  $72,041.57.
For calendar year 1966 ...................................  $74,154.04.

5. For answer to # 5  the Defendant would show that a 
cateress supplies a dining room only for civic clubs and 
that no food is sold to the public. Each of the clubs pay 
to the cateress for the number of meals furnished to that 
club. The YMCA does not buy any food items.

6. Answered in 5 above.
7a. Wholesalers and

suppliers Outside of Alabama

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

Association Press 
National Council 

of YMCA’s
United States Pencil Co. 
West Chemical Company

YMCA of Los Angeles 
Franklin
American Trophy and 

Supply Co.
American Handicrafts 
Economy Handicrafts 
Redi-Cut Crafts 
American Knitwear & 

Emblem Co.
R. L. Polk & Co.
Misheks
Brookline Shade 
Central Atlantic Area 

Council YMCA’s
7b. Wholesalers and 

suppliers 
Lassitter and Co.
Guyton Printing Co.

Thomas Sporting Goods 
Bradley Grain &

Grocery Co. 
Long-Lewis Hardware 
J. C. Curry 
Loftin Tire Co.
Fountain Building & 

Supply Co.

291 Broadway, New York

291 Broadway, New York 
100 Fifth Ave., New York 
P.O. Box 8206 Station F.

Atlanta, Ga.
715 South Hope Street
200 Ottley Drive, Atlanta, Ga.

303 Canal St., Providence, R.I. 
410 Peachtree St., Atlanta, Ga. 
Box 210 Little Neck, N. Y. 
2814 N. 48 St. Milwaukee, Wis.

Pliestow, New Hampshire 
P.O. Box 1324, Richmond, Va. 
RR No. 4 Waseca, Minn.
444 West 79 St., Chicago, 111.

P.O. Box 508, Princeton, N.J.

Within Alabama
308 No. 18th St., Bessemer, Ala.
2029 Carolina Ave.,

Bessemer, Ala.
1817 2nd Ave., Bessemer, Ala.

401 N. 20th St., Bessemer, Ala. 
2014 2nd Ave. N., Bessemer, Ala. 
501 20th St., No. Bessemer, Ala. 
614 N. 20th St. Bessemer, Ala.

1924 7th Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala.



8 6

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

Wholesalers and
suppliers
Hury Auto Parts 
Hurd Auto Parts 
Brooks Hardware 
Bessemer Typewriter Co. 
Davis Office Machine Co. 
Sokols Dept. Store 
Norrell Heating &

Air Cond.
Smithson Refrigeration 
Bessemer Auto Parts 
Crawford, Inc.
Southern

Disinfectant Co. 
Perfection Bedding Co. 
Clarks Co.
Office Outfitters 
Pittsburgh Glass Co.
The Advance Co.
James A. Head Co.

Within Alabama
1829 5th Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala. 
1912 7th Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala. 
213 N. 19th St., Bessemer, Ala. 
310 N. 20th St., Bessemer, Ala. 
120 N. 19th St., Bessemer, Ala. 
1907 2nd Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala.

2114 3rd Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala. 
1915 3rd Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala. 
630 N. 20th St., Bessemer, Ala. 
1819 2nd Ave. N. Bessemer, Ala.

3119 Jefferson Ave. Bham., Ala. 
P.O. Box 872, Bham., Ala.
710 N. 26th St., Bham., Ala. 
2201 2nd Ave. So., Bham., Ala. 
915 N. 18th St., Bham., Ala. 
312 N. 24th St., Bham., Ala. 
2013 1st Ave. N., Bham., Ala.

Name of Company Items Purchased Amount Amount

Caine Whitstone Corp. Section for boiler
1965

306.05
1966

Indurall Paint Paint 25.38
Laundry Cleaners and 

Supply Valve and brushes for motor 16.20 63.50
City Fire Equip. Co. Fire Extinguisher pts. 51.02
Pate Supply Co. Radiator Valve 20.24
City Paper Co. Toilet Tissue, paper towels, 

add. mach. tape 224.26 134.51
Wittichen 

Chemical Co. Chlorine, laundry soap, 
alcohol 757.20 900.68

The Feldstein Co. Sheets and towels 93.96 415.24
Noland Company Flush Valve 12.96 24.65
Taylor Glass Co. Glass door 150.00
McKesson & Robbins Mineral oil, band-aids, 

aspirin, etc. 42.34 24.28
Saunier Wilhem & Co. Billiard balls, tips, cues, 

bed and rail cloth 191.99 30.85
A.B.C. Supply Parallel Bars 300.00 44.59
Brookline Shade Co. Shades 204.36
Lasseter & Co. Ink, paper, pens, adding 

mach. tape, etc. 12.82 13.89
Guyton Printing Co. Basketball contracts,

letterheads, envelopes, etc. 34.38 95.28



87

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

Name of Company Items Purchased Amount Amount
1965 1966

Thomas Sporting
Goods Softballs, bases, scorebooks,

trophies, T-Shirts & 
uniforms 755.24 756.23

Bradley Grain & Gro. Mops, brooms, ajax, 
steelwool, etc.

Cement, mineral spirits,
95.18 58.95

Long-Lewis Hdw. Co.
paint, etc. 338.86 288.56

J. C. Curry Brooms, mops, ajax, etc. 24.88
Loftin Tire Co. 
Fountain Bldg.

Tires 25.85 39.82

& Sup. Repair work, paint, locks,
caulking, etc. 101.56 130.63

Hury Auto Parts Altenator 17.38 25.66
Hurd Auto Parts Auto paint and bonds 23.51 21.67
Brooks Hdw. Co. Tubing, buzzers & buttons 15.79
Bess. Typewriter Co. Repair typewriter 13.89
Davis Office Mach. Adding Machine 100.00 14.20
Sokols Dept. Store 
Norrell Heating &

Bedspreads 66.15

Air Cond. 
Smithson

Vent pipe for pool heater 14.00

Refrigeration Service to water cooler 16.81
Bessemer Auto Parts Copper tubing, ells hose, 

unions, etc.
Books & paper

23.51
Crawford, Inc. 10.87
Southern Disinfectant Pipe cleaner, soap,

disinfectant, brushes, 
wax, etc. 610.71 538.95

Perfection
Bedding Co. Five lounge chairs 200.00 200.00

Clarks Company Memo-ink, screen and drum 36.65
Office Outfitters Stool 33.44
Pittsburgh Plate Glass Glass for desk 16.34
The Advance Co. Receipt books 35.46
James A. Head Co. Ink, repair, Memo-machine 22.00 5.60
Wenhby-O’Brien Boiler 350.00

9. Total paid in 1965 ....................................  $3,145.97
Total paid in 1966 ....................................  $4,342.75

10. None.
11. C. H. Hurst 2023 Clarendon Ave., Bessemer, Ala.

James 0. Lee 205 Ray Street, Bessemer, Ala.
Wayne Chapman 405 Selma Road, Bessemer, Ala.
Williard Short 131 3rd Ave., Bessemer, Ala.



8 8

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

J. D. Marston 
William C. Hand 
Hamilton Franklin 
George Smith 
W. J. Pearce 
Chad Ricci 
William D. Morrow 
Herman Rush 
Robert Tillie 
Eddie Turner 
James Tillie 
Iwilla Cunningham 
Tommy Lee Lacey 
Earla Johnson

Y.M.C.A., Bessemer, Ala.
1003% N. 19th St., Bessemer, Ala. 
Y.M.C.A., Bessemer, Ala.
520 N. 17th St., Bessemer, Ala.
1925 Berkley Ave., Bessemer, Ala.
552 Selma Road, Bessemer, Ala.
514 Inglebrook Drive, Hueytown, Ala. 
Rt. 4, Box 621, Bessemer, Ala.
201 2nd Ave., Bessemer, Ala.
2403 10th Ave., Bessemer, Ala.
201 .10th Ave., Bessemer, Ala.
1930 9th Ave., Bessemer, Ala.
1605 24th St., Bessemer, Ala.
Route 4, Box 762, Bessemer, Ala,

12. The Y.M.C.A. building is located 5 blocks from U.S. Highway 11.
13. No.
14. No.
15. No.
16. No.
17. No.
18. No.
19. First Board of Directors was elected January 29, 1920; the incorporation 

papers show it was incorporated July 1, 1920.
Y.M.C.A. o p  B e s s e m e r

By: Cloyce H urst

General Secretary
State of A labama)
Jefferson County (

I do hereby certify that I am the General Secretary and 
agent of the Bessemer Y.M.C.A., a non profit corporation, 
for the purposes of answering these interrogatories.

I further certify that the answers given herein are true 
to the best of my knowledge and belief.

/ s /  Cloyce H. H urst

Sworn to and subscribed before me this the 8 day of 
February, 1967.

/ s /  John H. M cE niry, Jr.
Notary Public



89

[ s e a l ]

In the U nited States District Court

FOR THE

N orthern District of A labama 

Southern Division 
Civil A ction No. CA 66-715

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

Blevin Stout, et al., 

vs
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation 
of Bessemer, A labama,

Defendant.

A nswer to A dditional Interrogatories 

(Filed December 11, 1967)

To: Oscar W. Adams, Jr.
1630 Fourth Avenue, N.
Birmingham, Alabama 25203

The following are the answers to the Plaintiff’s Addi­
tional Interrogatories numbered 1 through 31, directed to 
the Defendant pursuant to Rule 33 of the Federal Rules of 
Civil Procedure.

1. Yes.

2. Yes.



90

3. The conditions for membership in the National Coun­
cil generally only require that the Association be in spirit 
and practice and conform to the purpose of the Young 
Men’s Christian Association. There is no organizational 
standard established by the National Council and the con­
stitution of the Bessemer YMCA has been accepted for a 
long number of years.

4. The purpose of the YMCA, we regard as being in its 
essential genius a world-wide fellowship, united by a com­
mon loyalty to Jesus Christ, for the purpose of developing 
Christian personality and building a Christian society.

5. We try to fulfill this purpose and good by providing 
a program of spiritual, intellectual, social and physical ed­
ucation for its members, hoys, girls, men and women, 
through its wide and varied program.

6. 1815 Fourth Avenue, Bessemer, Alabama.
7. No.

8. There is nothing in the By-Laws or Constitution pro­
hibiting anyone from being a member of the Association as 
long as they meet the standards required for membership.

9. There is no restaurant or cafeteria in the YMCA 
building.

10. See answer to No. 9.
11. See answer to No. 9.
12. See answer to No. 9.

13. A gymnasium and usual health facilities available in 
YMCA buildings.

14. The facilities are available only to members of the 
Bessemer YMCA.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



91

15. See answer to No. 14.
16. I do not recall.

17. See answer to No. 9 above.

18. As stated above, there was no restaurant and no 
rooms were available.

19. There is nothing in the constitution, rules, by-laws, 
or regulations to exclude anyone on basis of race.

20. 1964—3,070; 1965—2,913.
21. None.

22. There are no provisions pertaining to the right of 
persons to be admitted, accepted or served.

23. See answer to 9 above.
24. None.

25. See answer to No. 9 above.
26. See answer to No. 9 above.
27. Yes.
28. Yes.
29. Yes.

30. 1964 Total income: $66,449.74
a. 12,606.75
b. —o—
c. 11,890.00
Other income—41,952.99

1965 Total income: $68,955.84
a. 13,603.00

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4



92

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 4

b. —o—
c. 11,672.00
Other income—43,680.84

31. a. 1964—2,913; 1965—3,070
b. None
c. I do not keep a copy of the names of persons who 

were rejected.

YMCA of Bessemer
By: / s /  Cloyce H. H urst 

Cloyce H. H urst 
General Secretary

State o f  A labama ^
Jefferson County ^

I do hereby certify that I am the General Secretary and 
agent of the Bessemer YMCA, a non profit corporation, 
for the purpose of answering these interrogatories.

I further certify that the answers given herein are true 
to the best of my knowledge and belief.

/ s /  Cloyce H. H urst

Sworn to and subscribed before me this 11th day of 
December, 1967.

/ s /  John H. M cE nxry, Jr. 
Notary Public



93

I n the U nited States District Court 

F or the N orthern District of Alabama 

Southern D ivision 

Civil A ction CA 66-715

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5

(Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst Taken December 4, 1967)

Blevin Stout, et al.,

vs.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation of B essemer, A labama,

Defendant.

S t i p u l a t i o n

It is stipulated and agreed by and between the parties 
through their respective counsel that the deposition of 
Cloyce H. Hurst may be taken before Arnold Goldner, 
Commissioner, at the law offices of Huey, Stone & Patton, 
Bealty Building, Bessemer, Alabama, on the 4th day of 
December, 1967.

It is further stipulated and agreed that it shall not be 
necessary for any objections to be made by counsel to any 
questions, except as to form or leading questions, and that 
counsel for the parties may make objections and assign 
grounds at the time of trial, or at the time said deposition 
is offered in evidence, or prior thereto.

It is further stipulated and agreed that notice of filing 
by the Commissioner of the deposition is waived.



94

Civil A ction CA 66-715

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst

Blevin Stout, et al., 

vs.
Plaintiffs,

Y oung Men ’s Cheistian A ssociation of B essemee, A labama,

Defendant.

Befoee:

Arnold Goldner, Commissioner.

A ppeabances :

Mr. Harvey Burg, of the firm of Adams & Burg, 1630 4th 
Avenue, North, Birmingham, Alabama, appearing for the 
Plaintiffs.

Mr. J. Howard McEniry, of the firm of McEniry & 
McEniry, 1721 4th Avenue North, Bessemer, Alabama, ap­
pearing for the Defendant.

Mr. William Patton, Jr., of the firm of Huey, Stone & 
Patton, Bessemer, Alabama, appearing for the Defendant.

I, Arnold Goldner, Official Court Reporter/Commissioner, 
Jefferson County, Alabama, certify that on this date as pro­
vided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure of the United 
States District Court, and the foregoing stipulation of 
counsel, there came before me at the law offices of Huey, 
Stone & Patton, Realty Building, Bessemer, Alabama, be­
ginning at or about 10:00 A.M., Mr. Cloyce H. Hurst, wit­
ness in the above cause, for oral examination, when the 
following proceedings were had and done:



95

Cloyce H. H ijhst, being first duly sworn, was examined 
and testified as follows:

Examination by Mr. Harvey Burg:

Q. For the record, will you state your name! A. Cloyce 
H. Hurst.

Q. What is your position with the Y.M.C.A. in Bessemer! 
A. General Secretary.

Q. How long have you been General Secretary! A. 21 
years here in Bessemer.

Q. As General Secretary of the YMCA in Bessemer,— 
what does that mean you’re General Secretary over! A. 
In charge of the whole YMCA program.

Q. Of the Bessemer activities! A. Yes, and staff.
Q. Do you have knowledge of the day to day activities 

of the Y, personal knowledge of the “Y” activities! A. We 
have three secretaries—of course, I don’t know everything 
that goes on. We have a physical director, and a Youth 
Director.

Q. What are their names! A. The Physical Director 
is James Lee. At the time this case came on, we had three; 
we don’t have three now. James Lee was Physical Director 
and Wayne Chapman was an Assistant and there was 
John Harris.

Q. You’re saying Physical Director! That means gym 
activities! A. Yes, physical activities not only in the 
building, but outside too.

Q. How many buildings do you have in this area! A. 
One building.

Q. And that’s located where! A. 1815 Fourth Avenue.
Q. Do you have any fields or any other property! A.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



96

Yes, we have an athletic field—soft ball—one of these is a 
football field combined with the soft ball field.

Q. Owned by the YMCA? A. Not owned, but we have 
a lease on the property.

Q. Do you own any restaurant facilities within the City 
of Bessemer or the county? A. No. We have in the build­
ing—Now, we don’t call it a cafeteria, we don’t serve the 
general public.

Q. Do you have any other structures or lands that you 
own outside of what you have just described? A. No, that’s 
all.

Q. Could you briefly describe the activities of the YMCA? 
Could you sort of list them, what the YMCA does in the 
community? A. We have a program of activities for our 
youth and boys and girls and men and women. We have 
classes in the gymnasium; basketball leagues, church sup­
ported ; and a swimming pool for boys and girls; and health 
club. We have an exercise room and we have soft ball 
leagues and football leagues; soft ball leagues for church 
supported teams, and football leagues for small boys.

Q. What kind of classes do you have? A. Slimnastic 
classes for women, and for boys and girls we have gymnas­
tic classes and for both men and boys, basketball and foot­
ball leagues.

Q. Outside of the physical education program, do you 
run or conduct classes with regard to any other activities? 
A. No, just for our members.

Q. Will you describe for me the physical plant, the build­
ing at 1815 Fourth Avenue. What do you have—how many 
stories? A. Three stories. We have a basement, civic 
room where all civic clubs meet; restaurant or caterer that

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



97

serves all the service clubs and groups by appointment, 
and a small gymnasium and a pool.

Q. All in the basement? A. No. In the basement we 
have a swimming pool and health club and exercise room. 
On the second floor, we have offices for the General Secre­
tary and Physical Director, reading room, TV Room, boy’s 
room, craft and meeting room, and gymnasium.

Q. On the first floor? A. Yes. And the dormitory rooms 
are above.

Q. How many dormitory rooms are there? A. We have 
27 rooms.

Q. How many people do they accommodate? A. 58.
Q. Is the Bessemer YMCA part of the national or inter­

national organization. A. Member of the National Council 
of YMCA’s.

Q. Can you tell me your affiliation with them works— 
what is the nature of your affiliation? A. We are members 
of the National Council. Of course, they have their rules 
and regulations—I can’t name all of them, but we’re sup­
posed to pay 3% dues and send in a yearly report every 
year, and of course, you have to abide or comply with the 
National Council constitution.

Q. I see. What support, if any, do you get from them? 
A. Don’t get any at all; we support them.

Q. Do you get support in the way of literature and pub­
licity? A. Yes, and of course, literature mostly and things 
like that. They give us help from the southern area hut 
nothing from the national area except literature.

Q. When this Y was started, was it started by the Na­
tional Council? A. No, locally.

Q. How come the local group decided to he a “Y” and 
become affiliated? A. You have to be if you’re a. YMCA.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



98

Q. What is the advantage of being a YMCA? A. I 
couldn’t tell you—I wasn’t here. It was organized in 1920.

Q. What are the advantages now of being a member of 
YMCA National Council; as being identified as a YMCA? 
A. We get the literature and national publicity and all 
that goes with it; help from different groups and things 
like that, but we don’t get anything from the National 
other than literature mostly. That’s all that we have gotten 
from them.

Q. You have talked about help from other groups—-what 
kind of help? A. The Southern Area Council. There are 
men that come and help us, but the National—the Southern 
is part of the National Council.

Q. Where is the Southern Area Council based? A. 
Atlanta, Georgia.

Q. Your particular YMCA Board, is the structure of that 
Board dictated by the National Constitution? You just 
stated you had to comply. Is there a National Constitu­
tion of the Council of YMCA’s? A. Yes.

Q. And does your board structure and organizational 
structure conform? A. Yes.

Q. Is that the same kind of structure that every other 
YMCA conforms to? A. Yes.

Q. Would you outline the structure of your YMCA? 
A. You mean, the constitution or what?

Q. I mean the operating structure. A. Well, each local 
“Y” is it’s own autonomy. We are spearate and apart from 
the National. They don’t tell us how to operate. As far 
as the Board of Directors, we have self-autonomy.

Q. Do you have to have a secretary or have an individual 
in charge of these facilities. A. No. They tell us we need

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



99

to have a person at the head of the organization, a quali­
fied person as head of the “Y” .

Q. And other than that, you may do as you please? 
A. Yes, have our own Board of Directors and make our 
own policies.

Q. How many members of the Board are there? A. 24.
Q. How are these individuals selected? A. We have a 

nominating committee appointed by the Board of Direc­
tors, and are elected through the Board of Directors by 
ballot.

Q. Are there any qualifications to he a hoard member? 
A. Yes. Actually, we haven’t written them down but we 
know they have to be men of good character in the com­
munity.

Q. I see. Who is the president of the Board? A. Jason 
Dean.

Q. Is he a resident of Bessemer? A. That’s right.
Q. With regard to your swimming facilities and basket­

ball facilities, do you ever have exhibitions there by pro­
fessional teams or touring teams? A. No.

Q. Do you have tournaments? A. No. We have had in 
the past basketball “Y” tournaments, but not for the last 
four or five years. Our gym is too small.

Q. Do teams from the “Y” participate in state tourna­
ments? A. Yes.

Q. In which sports? A. Basketball.
Q. Any other sports? A. No, sir.
Q. Swimming or football or baseball? A. No.
Q Are these tournaments regional tournaments? A. 

No, State.
Q. In other words, the “Y” doesn’t have one. A. They 

have, but we haven’t competed.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



100

Q. For what reason have you not reached that state? 
A. Usually, the ones that win go to the region, but we 
haven’t had a tournament—it’s money and other things. 
The local can participate in the regional, but we have never 
done it.

Q. Have any of the other Alabama “Y’s” done it? A. 
Maybe, but I ’m not sure; I ’m not aware of which teams 
have done it.

Q. With regard to this constitution of which you have 
been talking, do copies of that constitution exist which 
someone might obtain? A. I believe we have one here.

Q. Could I obtain a copy from you? These are by-laws— 
will you have any objection to us having a copy of that— 
of the by-laws? You have in your possession which you 
have been representing as by-laws of the YMCA. Would 
you have any objection to us having a copy of these by­
laws? A. That would be alright.

Q. Thank you. That will help us look more clearly at it’s 
structure and it will save time.

Let me ask you this, how does one become a member of 
the Bessemer YMCA? A. They have to make an applica­
tion for membership.

Q. I see.
Who is the application made to? A. Made to the secre­

tary in charge.
Q. That would be to you? A. Not necessarily. We have 

a youth director and a physical director that could take 
applications.

Q. What does this application form consist of?—-What 
kind of information is asked on the application form? A. 
The name and address and telephone number and about the 
parents and, I don’t have one with me—I should have

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



101

brought one, but general information about the person.
Q. I see. For example, can you be more specific?
Can you tell me the answer, be more specific with the 

answer to this question to the best of your recollection. 
A. The name and address and telephone and mother and 
father’s name and occupation of the father and I think 
that’s the general questions that we ask.

Q. Are there any other questions that are asked? A. I 
don’t know.

Q. What is done when one of these cards is submitted? 
A. Turn it over to the membership committee.

Q. Of whom is the membership composed? A. Chair­
man of the committee and members of the committee ap­
pointed by the board of directors.

Q. Are these individuals on the Board of Directors? A. 
Yes, members of the Board of Directors.

Q. Then, what do they do? A. Turn it over to the 
committee and act on it and pass it on to the Board of 
Directors.

Q. For approval? A. Yes.
Q. Does the Board follow the recommendations of the 

membership committee? A. Yes.
Q. Who is the Chairman? A. 0. C. Gibson.
Q. How long does it take from the time somebody applies 

to the time they receive any notification of membership? 
A. We usually turn it over to them and they’re approved 
once a month by the board of directors.

Q. Can you tell me approximately how many individuals 
applied for membership in, say, the last year? A. Well,—

Q. Or, if you have a break down on that? A. I don’t 
have it with me. I couldn’t say off-hand.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



102

Q. Do you have any recollection! A. Yes, I can tell 
you, exactly—I can tell you for the year 1966.

Q. All right, 1966. A. We had 3070 different member 
applications, and then we had 193 that had joined the first 
of the month and came back in the fall that weren’t passed 
on.

Q. I see. Of the number—you said 3000 people in 1966, 
approximately, applied for membership! A. That’s right.

Q. How many were accepted! A. All these were ac­
cepted.

Q. In 1966, then, nobody was rejected! A. As far as 
membership applications, we had some on our dormitory 
residence applications that we turned down but not on this. 
I take it back—this is also the dormitory residence too. We 
turned down four on the dormitory applications.

Q. Tell me how this operates, these dormitory applica­
tions. A. It’s turned in by the residence secretary, checked 
on—the application is filled out and references that they 
know some person and they check them to see if it’s some­
body that we feel like would qualify.

Q. These individuals apply to live in the dormitory for 
some length of time! A. We don’t have any transients at 
all. They’re usually here for the winter, that live in the 
building and work in the local factories and businesses.

Q. But you do give lodging to transients on occasions! 
A. No, no room for transients.

Q. Have you not boarded some! A. Sometimes—we 
usually don’t have singles available for them.

Q. But, you have in the past lodged some individuals? 
A. Yes, less than a week’s membership.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



103

Q. Then they can join the “Y” for less than a week, for a 
particular period? A. Not for membership; the dormitory 
is different. The application for dormitory and member­
ship is a different application entirely.

Q. And the application that you were telling me about, 
that was the membership application for the “Y” ? A. 
That’s right.

Q. Now, can you tell me about the application for the 
dormitory facilities ? A. I don’t have a copy of it—Did you 
bring a copy?

Mr. McEniry: No, I don’t have that with me.

A. It has the name and age and business address; where 
they work and if they have attended church regularly; if 
they have been a member of a YMCA before and if they 
have a church preference and they have to give two refer­
ences and sign that they will abide by the rules and regu­
lations.

Q. What about an individual that seeks lodging in a room 
that’s available? Do they fill out the same application? A. 
Yes, everybody fills out the same up there.

Q. With that individual, I ’d assume you wouldn’t have 
a chance to check him out, would you? A. We do if we 
need to. Usually, when they come in like that, they’re sent 
in by a friend and, of course, if they bring them in, we don’t 
have to.

Q. I have used the “ Y” facilities half way around the 
world as well as in the country and I recall making applica­
tion to the “Y” , and in addition, I was assessed certain 
fees for membership and for use of the health club facili­

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



104

ties if I wanted to use them. On your application for indi­
viduals coming in as transients, is there a place on the ap­
plication for membership fees ? A. No.

Q. Is there a place on the application for use of the 
health club facilities? A. No.

Q. Can you tell me if an individual who just wants to 
stay for the night or for a week, if he must become a member 
of the “Y” ? A. We charge a membership fee of 500 for 
that membership.

Q. Of whatever your fee is for the room? A. Yes.
Q. So, they do have to become members? A. Not to sign.
Q. But this is on the side, something separate or a re­

ceipt? A. As you write them up, you charge 500 for mem­
bership and the other part is for the dormitory.

Q. I see. How long is that membership good for? A. 
For the week, for the time they’re there if they pay for the 
week. Fifty cents is for membership for that week.

Q. Would it be more for a month? A. We charge $2.00 
if they pay by the month.

Q. $2.00 per month? A. Yes.
Q. What would a membership cost for the year? A. 

$24.00.
Q. $24.00 a year? A. Yes.
Q. And what is the nightly fee? A. We don’t have any 

nightly fee; membership fee is on a weekly basis.
Q. I mean, if somebody uses a room for the night. 

A. They don’t have membership privileges. We don’t 
charge anything for membership for one night.

Q. You don’t charge the 500? A. No, 50  ̂ is by the 
week.

Q. But that fee is not charged to anybody that comes 
in as a transient? A. No, just the $2.00 dormitory fee.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



105

Q. Can you give us an idea how many transients you 
had for 1965, or 1966? A. We had 6 I believe last year— 
6 or 7 last year.

Q. I see. Where were the records for the number of 
transients be kept? A. We have them at the “Y”.

Q. These are regular business entries that you’ve kept? 
A. Yes.

Q. And for 1967, how many? A. Transients, I couldn’t 
tell you—very few.

Q. Is your dormitory presently occupied to capacity? 
A. No.

Q. Could you tell me how many of the 47 roms are oc­
cupied? A. No.

Q. Can you tell me how many individuals now are dormi­
tory residents. A. I couldn’t tell you this morning.

Q. OK. How about as of last week? A. We had, 38 I 
believe, at the beginning of the month.

Q. How many rooms were occupied at the beginning of 
the month? A. I couldn’t say—the resident secretary 
makes that out, I don’t recall. Up until this year, we have 
been full on our single rooms and we had a waiting list 
for single rooms.

Q. How many single rooms do you have? A. We have 
36.

Q. And the other 11 are doubles? A. Yes. We usually 
let them go into a double room and they can ask for a 
preference for a single room and if they’re available, we 
give them a choice.

Q. Do any transients that come in usually get a double 
room? A. No, we don’t rent double rooms to transients.

Q. What happens when a transient comes in? A. He’s 
placed in a single room, if available.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



106

Q. Can you tell me to the best of your knowledge for the 
year 1965 and 1966 how many transients you turned away? 
A. I couldn’t tell you.

Q. Do you have any records? A. We just tell them we 
don’t have a room available. We have a large number that 
want rooms, but we don’t keep a record of those that are 
turned away.

Q. Now, you tell me there are basically two types of 
memberships in the “Y” , regular “Y” membership, which 
are people that live outside of the “Y” and use the health 
and athletic facilities—or is the Health Club separate than 
the general “Y” ? A. You have to make application to the 
Health Club and it’s a different fee and you have to be over 
21. It’s a little higher and you have to be 21 years of age 
before you can be a member of the Health Club and must 
be passed by the Health Club committee. It’s different than 
the other memership.

Q. On what grounds would they be rejected, members of 
the “Y” ? A. They have it in the constitution that you can 
reject for cause.

Q. What is that? A. If they don’t live up to the rules 
and regulations.

Q. Are they already “Y” members when they apply? A. 
No, they apply separately for the Health Club.

Q. For the years 1965 and 1966 and 1967, this present 
year, can you tell me how many people applied for mem­
bership in the Health Club? A. No.

Q. Do you have those figures anywhere? A. I have 
them at the Y, but not with me.

Q. Can you tell me how many people were rejected for 
membership? A. No, but there were some, but I don’t 
know how many.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce E. Hurst



107

Q. Would you make a rough guess as to how many ap­
plications were taken for the year 1966? A. I imagine, 
around 80 something. I wouldn’t know off hand.

Q. What is the difference between the price of the regu­
lar Y membership and the Health Club? A. Five dollars 
for the Health Club and twenty-four dollars for the regular 
membership.

Q. That would give you some spread. Of those, you say 
there was about 80 for the Health Club? A. Yes, some­
where along in there.

Q. Would you say that more than ten people were re­
jected? A. Less.

Q. Less than five? A. I would think around five or be­
low. We haven’t had too many rejected, but some.

Q. Do you have personal knowledge of the reason for 
any of the rejections? A. No.

Q. Did you participate in any of the decisions? A. No, 
the Health committee.

Q. And you didn’t participate? A. No, I didn’t.
Q. When one fills out an application form, can one im­

mediately begin to use the facilities, or must you wait? Do 
you have a trial membership while the committee is passing 
on it? A. Yes, unless there’s some reason we feel like they 
won’t, but other than that you normally would allow them 
to use the facilities pending the committee ruling. We have 
a guest card that we let them use, recommended by one of 
the members of the Health Club.

Q. What about the other Y membership, the Y member­
ship for the, I guess, which entitles a child or adult to use 
the gym or participate in the leagues? A. They usually 
sign an application or contract through the churches and 
are passed on before they play.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



108

Q. I see. This is done before they play in the league? 
A. Yes, the contracts show they are members.

Q. You mean, this Y application? A. Yes, application 
and contract for these leagues. We have a contract, too, 
that they have to sign and it’s through the church council 
and leagues that pass on it and those names are turned in 
each week to see that they are qualified to play.

Q. Suppose I wanted to join with my family. As soon 
as I gave you the twenty-four dollars and filled out the ap­
plication that was for my membership, could I shoot some 
basketball and swim? A. Yes, we usually let them do that 
until passed on.

Q. Pending the determination of their status? A. Yes.
Q. With regard to the membership, does the National 

Council or the Southern Area Council in any way spell out 
the steps for membership or regulations with regard to 
membership? A. No, other than to serve everybody.

Q. Do they provide application forms or printing? A. 
No, each local Y is separate and apart.

Q. Are there receipt books? A. They’re different.
Q. Do they spell out the kind of records to keep? A. 

Yes, the kind of records to keep, but as far as members, we 
are to serve everyone, that’s what they tell us.

Q. They indicate for you to serve everyone? A. That’s 
right.

Q. Where is that stated? A. In what -way?
Q. You said the records from National Y. Is that the 

constitution of the National Council? A. Yes.
Q. I see. Does this mean to serve everyone irrespective 

of race, creed, or coloi*, or origin? A. That’s right.
Q. Do you follow that? A. There is nothing in cmr

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



109

rules or regulations that precludes the membership of any­
one, regardless of color.

Q. I see.
Do they in the National Constitution permit you to make 

such preclusions?

Mr. McEniry: He said there are none. I ’ll object 
to that.

A. There is nothing in the rules or regulations—we don’t 
preclude anybody.

Q. Can Negroes become members of the Y in Bessemer? 
A. If they apply for membership like anybody else.

Q. Can they use the gym facilities? A. The member­
ship committee passes on all of them.

Q. On the assumption that they become, or can Negroes 
use the swimming pool at the Y? A. No, they can’t.

Q. If they’re members, can they use the swimming pool? 
A. Yes, if they’re members. We serve all members.

Q. I see.
Then, the National policy then is to serve everyone and 

not to preclude anyone from membership in the Y M C A? 
A. That’s true.

Q. Is that the policy of the Bessemer Y M C A? A. 
Nothing in our policy that would preclude anybody.

Q. I ’ll ask you the question again and you can answer 
yes or no. Is it the policy of the Bessemer Y M C A to the 
best of your personal knowledge that everyone, regardless 
of race, creed, or color, or national origin, is entitled to 
become a member of the Bessemer Y M C A? A. Yes.

Q. This is your policy? A. Nothing in there precludes 
anyone. Our policy is they can make application for mem­
bership like anyone else.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



110

Q. Can Negroes become members of the Y  in Bessemer? 
A. If the membership committee and board approves.

Q. Is their race a bar to membership to the Bessemer Y 
of yonr own personal knowledge? A. There is not any­
thing in our policy that says we can not take members.

Q. That’s not my question.
To the best of your personal knowledge, is race or being 

a Negro a bar to becoming a member of the Bessemer 
Y M C A?

Mr. McEniry: Objection, on the ground that he has 
stated that there is no policy of the board that re­
fuses any man membership because of race, creed, 
or color, or national origin, and that is all he can 
answer.

Mr. Burg: I ’m going to strongly except on the 
ground that the question I ’m asking is one out of 
personal knowledge. This gentleman has been with 
the Y  some twenty odd years and is the chief execu­
tive of the Y. What I’m asking is in regard to the 
actual policy.

Mr. McEniry: You don’t have to answer that 
question.

Mr. Burg: Exception.

Q. To your personal knowledge, has a Negro ever been 
a member of the Bessemer Y  M C A ! A. No.

Q. And this is during the entire period of time that you 
have been working with this Y for how many years! A. 
Twenty-one years.

Q- And yon answer, no- to that? A. That's right.
Q- To your personal knowledge, has a Negro ever applied

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



Ill

for membership! A. They have not applied in 1964 or 
1965. There was not a single application in 1964 and ’65.

Q. To your personal knowledge, has any Negroes ever 
asked for application forms or have come in and inquired 
how they might become members or use the Y facilities! 
A. They have in 1966, and in 1967, we’ve had several ap­
plications.

Q. Individuals have made applications in 1966 and 1967! 
A. Yes.

Q. Have any of them been accepted! A. No. The ap­
plications have been turned over to the membership com­
mittee.

Q. Have any of them been accepted! A. They are the 
property of the board.

Q. Do you have any personal knowledge of this! A. 
No, I turned them over to the membership committee.

Q. This is normal procedure for the delay! A. I turn 
them over to the membership committee and let them handle 
it.

Q. To your personal knowledge, have Negroes ever used 
the swimming pool or gym facilities! A. No.

Q. Or, you call it the cafeteria or catering facilities! 
A. We don’t serve the public at all.

Q. Have any Negro groups used the dining facilities! 
A. No, they have not.

Q. Who, with regard to your particular structure here in 
Bessemer, determines or would determine the policy as to 
whether or not Negroes would be admitted! A. The board 
of directors.

Q. I see.
Does it say anywhere in the National Constitution that 

the local Y shall provide dormitory or rooms for transients

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



112

or accommodate them! A. No. Where there are rooms 
where people stay, there is autonomy. Each Y has different 
practices and they don’t conform to the same thing. We 
just don’t have room available for transients. We try to 
serve the Bessemer area only.

Q. But my question is, is this a more or less custom that 
every Y  shall provide this type of service? A. If they 
have rooms available. We don’t have enough rooms avail­
able for transients.

Q. When you originally set up a Y, are there models of 
an ideal type of Y to set up? A. As far as I know, there 
is not.

Q. What kind of problems does this man from the re­
gional Y, from the Southern Area Board, what kind of 
problems does he help you with? A. They make studies 
of your program and come over for conferences, mostly.

Q. I see.
What are these conferences about? A. I ’m talking about 

the boys and girls conferences. We haven’t had any staff 
conferences.

Q. What are these conferences? A. We have the boys— 
the state conference for boys and girls; Hi Y, boys and 
girls; Youth League and Blue Bidge Summer School.

Q. What is that? A. Blue Ridge, that’s where these 
boys and girls from Tri Hi Y go each summer.

Q. What is that? A. Blue Ridge, North Carolina.
Q. Is that a camp? A. No, a conference ground.
Q. How long do they go for? A. A week.
Q. And does the Y, or does this Y participate in any sum­

mer camp for kids? A. We participate with the Birming­
ham Y. We don’t have one and go to the Birmingham Y.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



113

Q. Where? A. Camp Cosby, 18 miles up from Birming­
ham.

Q. I see.
Do your young people participate in any region or na­

tional conventions of Hi Y? A. No, just in the Southern 
Area Y.

Q. Have they ever participated in any conferences or 
conventions outside of Alabama? A. We have gone to 
Atlanta, in the Southern Area.

Q. I see. A. That’s fully integrated, and the boys state 
conferences are integrated.

Q. Is there a Negro Y M C A here in Bessemer? A. No.
Q. I see. A. We did have one, had a branch here when 

I first came to Bessemer in 1947. We had a Negro principal 
or teacher that had some Negro activities in the schools, but 
the next year the Park and Recreation Board came into be­
ing and took over the activities of the colored through their 
park and recreation program.

Q. All through our discussion you have alluded to the 
relationship between the Y and what I assume are the 
local churches. Can you enlarge on that; what relation 
does the Y have with the churches? A. When I first came 
to Bessemer, I felt we had a Christian relationship, a close 
relationship and in 1948 we formed a Y Council composed 
of all the churches with representatives from each and 
started on a program, a recreational program for the 
churches and we’ve had a large program; softball and 
basketball and handball and football.

Q. In other words, teams from these churches partici­
pated in the leagues that you have organized? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And use your facilities and by and large in carrying

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



114

these programs out? A. Yes, the church council directs 
that.

Q. I see.
Where does your Y obtain its finances to run it? A. 

From membership, dormitory, physical fees and from the 
Community Chest.

Q. What percentage of your operating expenses come out 
of the Community Chest? A. Around 53 or 54%. I don’t 
know the exact amount, but it’s over 50%.

Q. Is that from the Bessemer Community Chest? A. 
No, Jefferson County Community Chest.

Q. Do the churches, the local churches support you any 
financially? A. Yes. We charge a physical fee for the 
churches for participation and also they pay their mem­
bership dues like anybody else.

Q. Does the City of Bessemer or Jefferson County pro­
vide you with a subsidy? A. No.

Q. Do they in any way provide you with land? A. No, 
they don’t.

Q. Do you pay property taxes? A. No.
Q. You’re tax exempt? A. Yes.
Q. You’re also a non-profit organization? A. Yes, that’s 

right.
Q. At this time, I ’d like to ask you some specific questions 

about your major facilities. First of all, take the gym facili­
ties. Are they open only to members? A. That’s right.

Q. But they are also open to affiliated teams of the Y? 
A. No, every team that plays at the Y are members of the 
Y.

Q. So, a young man who is affiliated with the First Bap­
tist Church, a young man from that church would also

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



115

have to become a member of the Y? A. Yes, they have to 
be members of the Y to participate.

Q. That’s in addition to the affiliation that the church 
has with the Y? A. That’s right.

Q. Do teams ever play in the gym who are not affiliated 
or not in the Y Leagues? A. No, nobody but members.

Q. I see.
How about the Health Club—does that operate in a sense 

that only members can use it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can an individual passing through town use it? A. 

No.
Q. How does one obtain a guest card? A. By a member 

of the Health Club, but they have to be approved by the 
general secretary. We don’t usually have a transient that 
comes through who uses our Health Club. We don’t give 
them that privilege.

Q. Not even once in awhile? A. No.
Q. You said that an individual who makes an applica­

tion, while his application is pending, he might use the 
facilities unless there is some objection? A. Well, they 
have to be recommended by one of the Health Club mem­
bers.

Q. And he may use a guest card while his application is 
being passed on? A. Yes, sir, and if we feel they’re are 
not likely ones that we don’t want; we would honor it.

Q. Are there any activities that go on in any physical 
ed area that involves teams? A. Baseball or football.

Q. How about swimming? A. No, no teams.
Q. Just teaching and classes? A. That’s right.
Q. Now, about these dining facilities. Can you explain 

very briefly how one might use them? A. Well, the group 
—of course, we have a caterer that takes care of all groups.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



116

Q. Who is the caterer? A. Mrs. Spain is right now.
Q. How do yon select a caterer? A. The board of direc­

tors selects them.
Q. And is she employed then by the board to operate this 

particular area? A. That’s right.
Q. Can you tell me how large an area is this? A. Good­

ness, about 20 feet wide.
Q. How many people will it serve? A. We serve com­

fortably around 75 to 80. We can serve more, but not com­
fortable. It’s not large at all.

Q. How does one go about obtaining the use of this 
facility? A. They have to be passed on by the board of 
directors.

Q. What is the normal procedure? A. The regular 
groups that meet all the time—The Kiwanis Club, The 
Rotary Club, Pilot Club and Business and Professional 
Club and The Industrial Management Club, and, of course, 
any other groups that meet would have to be passed on by 
the board.

Q. In other words, any other group? A. That meets 
regularly would have to be passed on by the board.

Q. Do you know of your own personal knowledge if that 
power is delegated to any individual? A. Of course, if 
there is a group that comes in there and the caterer wants 
to serve them, we let her do that.

Q. I was wondering if one had to wait, say a month? 
A. If they eat there regularly, they have to be passed on 
first by the board.

Q. Otherwise, they can contact her and if the facilities 
are open she can let them eat? A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell me what percentage of the Y revenue you 
receive from this caterer? A. Very little. We don’t make

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Durst



117

enough to carry it on; we get 100 a plate and we furnish 
all the equipment and lights and all that. That’s all we get, 
10̂ 5 a plate from Mrs. Carrie.

Q. I see.
Has this dining room facility been self supporting for 

any of the last three years? A. No.
Q. Do you recall what the deficit was? A. We don’t 

keep it separate. The Y pays for the lights and gas and 
all that, and, of course, we don’t keep it separate.

Q. You just keep it on? A. Yes, but as far as the buying 
of dishes and all that, the 10  ̂ pays for that, but as for the 
wax and cleaning and lights and gas, that’s not kept sepa­
rate.

Q. With regard to this dining facility, in a given month, 
how many days of the week would you say that it’s in use? 
A. Oh, about three days—two days actually, every week. 
Now, and then one night a week for the ladies club is all.

Q. And then in addition to that, if some other groups are 
booking it? A. Yes, but we don’t have too many of those.

Q. Do you have two separate rooms? A. One large 
room, Civic Room and a small room that we can accommo­
date twenty to thirty people.

Q. I see.
Can you tell me what kind of foods are served at these 

dining facilities? A. Regular plate—what: do you mean?
Q. In other words, it’s cooked there? A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any equipment, such as a soda machine 

or anything like that? A. No.
Q. Do you serve soft beverages? A. No.
Q. How about coffee or tea? A. Yes, that’s all.
Q. I might as well ask you this—do you serve alcoholic 

beverages? A. No.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



118

Q. Can the dormitory residents eat in the Y M C A? A. 
No, I don’t even eat there.

Q. These residents at no time are accommodated even 
with coffee or tea? A. No. In other words, I don’t even 
eat there. All those that eat there are groups that are 
served.

Q. Is that room open to all groups, or is the use of those 
dining facilities subject to the pleasure of the board? A. 
Yes, that’s right.

Q. To your knowledge, has a Negro group ever used 
these facilities? A. No.

Q. To your personal knowledge, is there a policy against 
Negro groups using these facilities? A. No.

Q. You have no knowledge of that? A. That’s right.
Q. Is there a special application form by which an indi­

vidual or a group can apply for the use of those particular 
facilities? A. No, they just ask for one.

Q. Whom do they ask? A. Usually ask me.
Q. I see.
And do you ever make decisions on your own with regard 

to who can use these facilities? A. Yes, if it’s a regular 
one, usually take it to the board.

Q. If someone was to use it regularly? A. Yes.
Q. Suppose it’s for one single time? A. We check with 

the caterer.
Q. And if they are free, you allow them. A. Yes.
Q. Has a Negro ever requested the use of those facilities? 

A. No.
Q. Would you deny a Negro the use of them? A. I ’d 

have to pass it on to the board of directors.
Q. Do you have a directive from the board that if it in­

volves an application on behalf of Negroes, that you must

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Gloyce H. Hurst



119

go before the board! A. Anything like that, we carry 
before the board. Of course, the caterer would be the one 
to see if she can serve or not. The caterer would be the 
one. It’s up to her who she’ll caterer to.

Q. If the board passes on a group, what happens then? 
A. We don’t make her serve anybody. It’s up to her to 
decide whether she will serve anyone outside of these 
groups. If a group wants to come, they have to go through 
the caterer first and be approved.

Q. When does it get to you? A. Then, she calls in to 
see if that date is open.

Q. And you keep the calendar? A. Yes, on our desk and 
see if the date is open, but it has to be through the caterer 
first.

Q. Suppose the date is open and she says she has a 
Negro group making an application, can they use those 
facilities? A. I think the caterer would serve them, I 
imagine, if the board would approve. There’s nothing in 
the policy that we can’t serve anybody. It’s up to the board 
of directors.

Q. And would you personally send that application to 
the board? A. I certainly would.

Q. Would you personally have any objection to serving 
any Negro groups at the Y?

Mr. Me Eniry: Objection. You don’t have to 
answer that question.

Mr. Burg: Exception.

Q. Do you in any way advertise or publicize these partic­
ular dining facilities, except to serve these groups? A. 
No.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Gloyce H. Hurst



1 2 0

Q. Have you ever in the past? A. No.
Q. How have different groups known about these facili­

ties? A. They have asked for it, but we don’t advertise.
Q. Was it by word of mouth? A. Well, we don’t even 

tell people they can eat there.
Q. Now, in the building itself, do you have any kind of 

snack machine? A. No, we do not.
Q. I ’m talking about in the Y? A. No, we don’t have 

any in the building at all; no snack machine at all.
Q. No soda or candy machine? A. We have a candy and 

coke machine, but no food. We have candy and coke, but 
that’s all.

Q. Anything else? A. No, just candy and coke.
Q. From your personal knowledge, if a Negro made an 

application to become a member of the Y M C A  in terms 
of the general membership, and if he met all the require­
ments of good character and so forth, would his race be 
a factor in determining whether or not he would become 
a member? A. That’s up to the membership committee or 
board. There’s nothing in our policy that precludes them.

Q. To your personal knowledge, has race ever been a 
factor in passing on an application by a Negro? A. I have 
always turned them over to the committee.

Q. To your personal knowledge, has race ever been a 
factor in their actions with regard to their application?

Mr. Patton: I ’m going to object to that. I don’t 
know that he could have an answer for that, what 
the membership committee might do. A. I can’t 
tell you what the committee might do.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



121

Q. My question is, to your personal knowledge has race 
ever been the factor in passing or not passing or holding 
up an application; in figuring in the calculus in accepting 
anybody?

Mr. Me Eniry: I’m going to object to that. I don’t 
see how he can answer that. Each person is an indi­
vidual and he can’t be expected to know what went 
on in the minds of the board of directors.

Q. If, in fact, they kept that to themselves. If they have 
expressed that as a factor, he naturally would have knowl­
edge of that and it would be important to this. The ques­
tion only goes to his personal knowledge.

Mr. Me Eniry: I’m going to object to his answer­
ing the question.

Mr. Burg: And I’m going to strongly except.

Q. I don’t recall if I asked this question in this way 
before, but to your knowledge is race a factor or will race 
preclude an individual from becoming a member of the 
Y  M C A and using it’s facilities f

Mr. Me Eniry: I ’m going to object. We have been 
over this 14 times and I’m going to object to the 
question.

Mr. Burg: Exception.

Q. Do you personally make any decisions with regard 
to who may use the facilities or participate in the Leagues 
or other activities of the Y M C A? A. Would you ask me 
that again?

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyee H. Hurst



122

Q. Do you personally make any decisions as to who may 
use certain facilities at the Y, from the dormitories to the 
gym to the swimming pool! A. Members use the facili­
ties ; only members can use the facilities.

Q. Do you personally have power to make any decision 
with regard to anybody being extended the use of them? 
A. No, only the members use the Y ; don’t let anybody 
except members.

Q. In other words, if I came as an outsider and you knew 
me from somewhere and I asked to use the facilities or had 
a recommendation, but we were not friends and I had 
nobody to give me a guest card, you couldn’t allow me to 
use the facilities? A. No, unless there was a guest card 
by a member.

Q. Do you personally pass on which church or team 
will be acceptable for a given Y M C A League? A. The 
church council does this, the physical director in charge.

Q. So, you as a director make no decisions with regard to 
the entire spectrum of activities of the Y in Bessemer as to 
who may use and take advantage of these activities? A. 
As far as the church council, all leagues are approved by 
the church council with the approval of the physcial direc­
tor.

Q. I’ll ask you again, do you make any decisions, person­
ally, or do you have the power to decide? A. No. If it’s 
a membership application, I turn it over to the member­
ship committee.

Q. You’re nothing but an intermediary? A. Yes.
Q. And you have no decision making power with regard 

to who may use the facilities ? A. Only as to the policy set 
forth by the board of directors.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



123

Q. Do they delegate the power to make any decisions 
with regard to the use of the facilities or participate in the 
Y activities? A. Well, if they’re members and if are 
passed by the church council and if the physical director 
or youth director approves or that we ought to do it but 
it’s for members only.

Q. I see.
But if the individual or group that wants to use the 

facilities are not members, you have no power or decision 
making power to decide whether they can use it for a day 
or an hour or longer? A. We have a policy that only 
members use the Y M C A  and we stick to the policy of 
members only using the Y.

Q. And so yon have no power to deal with anybody that 
is not a member? A. That’s right. We tell them they have 
to be a member of the Y.

Q. What about groups that want to use the dining facili­
ties? A. They are not members of the Y—the groups that 
use the dining room are not members of the Y.

Q. And I think you stated you have the power to accept 
them or not? A. As far as the use of the dining facilities 
only. They eat in the dining room and it’s not in the mem­
bership part of the building. It’s in the civic room. They 
are not members of the Y and do not participate in any 
activities.

Q. Would you have any objection to Negro groups 
using that facility? A. As I told you, it would be up to 
the board of directors.

Q. You told me you had the power to decide? A. I 
can’t do anything except what is the policy of the board.

Q. Has the board told you anything with regard to 
Negroes using the facilities? A. No.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



124

Q. Would you have an objection to accepting a Negro 
group? A. I can not tell what the board will do.

Q. You told me you had the power to accept? A. No, 
I didn’t say that.

Q. I thought I heard you say that you could accept 
groups? A. I told you a while ago that the board of direc­
tors pass on the groups that meet there regularly and the 
caterer. Of course, there might be a certain group that 
would have to be passed on prior by the board of directors.

Q. But other groups, you might accept for a day engage­
ment or a luncheon. When the caterer telephones you, you 
might say, “ Go ahead, that’s fine.” Is that correct? A. 
Yes, for certain groups; church groups, we don’t serve 
other than church groups and the civic groups. That’s all 
we serve, church groups and civic groups.

Q. Do you have any objection to a Sisterhood from The 
First African Church using the dining facilities ? A. That 
would be up to the board of directors.

Q. You wouldn’t pass on the question because of the 
nature of it? You’d pass it on to the board of directors? 
A. Yes.

Q. I see.
With regard to your dining facilities, has that always 

been the policy? A. Yes, since I ’ve been there.
Q. Have you ever had a cafeteria? A. No.
Q. Have you ever served dormitory residents? A. No.
Q. Have you ever served members? A. No.
Q. Would you say that membership is open to the general 

public? A. That’s right.
Q. Do you know, or do you have the figures there for the 

number of members for the years, say, 1964, 1965, 1966, 
and for the present year? A. No, I don’t have those. You 
asked for figures for 1964 and ’65-—

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



125

Mr. Me Eniry: They’re in the neighborhood of 
three thousand.

Q. Has it been more or less a steady membership figure? 
A. I gave you a 1964 and 1965—I thought I had that figure 
—here it is. 1964 was two thousand-nine hundred and thir­
teen, and for 1965 it was three thousand-seventy, and the 
ones that have been members before and have returned back 
again, we call that continuous membership; joined in Janu­
ary and then come back in December. In 1964, we had two 
hundred-seventy and in 1965, one hundred and ninety- 
three.

Q. With regard to your dormitory operation, has it 
changed any the last ten years? A. What do you mean?

Q. Has it operated the same way in the last ten years? 
A. Yes, the same way since I came; not many changes.

Q. To your personal knowledge, is this similiar to the 
procedure followed by the Ys throughout the country? A. 
Yes, it was originally taken from the Birmingham Y. I 
think all the Ys have the same applications.

Q. Who does the printing of your application forms and 
receipt forms? A. Well, we get it done by a local person 
in Bessemer, Guyton Printers.

Q. I see.
In Bessemer, is there a Y W  C A? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you run any activities for women? A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me what activities you do run? A. We 

have what we call a slimnastic and swimming class for 
women.

Q. And can women be members? A. Yes, they can be 
members of the Y.

Q. I see.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst



126

So, the YMCA has women as members in Bessemer? A. 
Yes.

Q. And may use the facilities at limited times? A. 
That’s right.

Q. Do you have a special membership program with 
regard to summer activities as opposed to winter? A. Yes.

Q. Will you explain that? A. We have three days for 
the girls and three days for the boys and in the morning 
we have swimming classes for boys and girls and craft 
and gym classes for boys and girls; trips for boys and 
girls.

Q. Where do these trips go? A. Locally, around to 
different points of interest.

Q. You don’t have craft during the year? A. No, just 
in the summer. We have family membership in the summer.

Q.Would you explain that? A. We have the member­
ship for husband and wife and two children and they have 
access to the general membership, but do not have access 
to the Health Club, but to the general membership.

Q. For what period? A. Three months, June, July and 
August.

Q. Do you have any outdoor swimming facilities? A. 
No, just what’s in the building, the swimming pool in the 
building.

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 5
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst

Mr. Burg: Thank you very much, Mr. Hurst. No 
further questions.

(F urther, D eponent Saith Naught.)



127

Plaintiff s’ Exhibit 5 
Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst

C E R T I F I C A T E

State of A labama)
Jefferson County(

I  hereby certify that the above and foregoing deposition 
was taken down by me in stenotype, and the questions and 
answers thereto were reduced to typewriting under my 
supervision, and that the foregoing represents a true and 
correct transcript of the deposition given by said witness 
upon said hearing.

I further certify that I am neither of counsel nor of kin 
to the parties to the action, nor am I in anywise interested 
in the result of said cause.

/ s /  A rnold Goldner

Commissioner



128

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 6  

(By-laws of Bessemer YMCA)

The Young Men’s Christian Association of Bessemer, Ala­
bama, Inc. Persuant to the Sixth section of the Articles 
of Incorporation of “The Young Men’s Christian Associa­
tion of Bessemer, Alabama, Inc.” , the following By-Laws 
for the corporation are hereby adopted in the manner and 
form as authorized by law.

Article I
Member Association in G-ood Standing

Section 1. To maintain its affiliation in good standing, in 
accordance with the provisions of the National Council 
of Young Men’s Christian Association, this Association 
shall annually certify that in spirit and practice it con­
forms to the purpose of the Young Men’s Christian Asso­
ciation of the United States; shall annually report to the 
National Council concerning such matters as the Council 
may specify from time to time; and shall annually pay to 
the National Council its share of the expense of the Na­
tional Council in accordance with the standards of support 
mutually agreed upon between the National Council and 
the Southern Regional Council.

Article II 

Membership
Section 1. Any man, woman, boy or girl of good moral 
character, who is in sympathy with the purpose of Chris­
tian Association and fellowship may become a member of 
this association upon complying with the regulations pre­
scribed by the membership committee of the Board of 
Directors for his or her participation or use of facilities.



129

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 6 

Article III

Election of Board of Directors
Section 1. Each year the Board of Directors shall in De­
cember elect six new members of the Board who shall 
replace the six members whose term expire on December 
31. The new members of the Board shall take office Jan­
uary 1 following their election in December and shall serve 
for three years.

Section 2. The Board shall consist of 18 members of which 
6 shall be elected each year.

Section 3. No member of the Board may serve two suc­
cessive terms, hut after serving a 3 year term, he must 
remain off of the Board for one year before he may he 
again elected to the Board.

Article IV
Section 1. The regular meeting of the Board of Directors 
shall he held on the first Monday of each month. One half 
of the membership of the Board shall constitute a quorom.

Section 2. Special meetings may be called by the Recording 
Secretary, at the request of the President, or upon written 
request of three directors.
Section 3. All regular meetings of the Board shall be 
opened with prayer and the order of business shall be as 
follows:

Roll Call
Reading minutes of previous meeting 
Report of the finance committee 
Report of the General Secretary and his staff 
Report of standing committees



130

Report of special committees 
Unfinished business 
New business 
Adjournment

On motion any item may be taken up out of tbe regular 
order of business.

Section 4. The Board of Directors shall have authority to 
deal with all cases of misconduct or violation of rules and 
regulations of the Association on the part of any members, 
employee, or other person.

Article Y

Duties of Lay Officers
Section 1. The President shall preside at all business 
meetings of the Association and of the Board of Directors; 
he shall make a full report of the Association’s work for 
his year in office at the January meeting of the Board and 
the report shall he filed in the Association’s records; he 
shall appoint all standing committees of the Board and of 
the Association and shall designate the chairman thereof, 
subject to the approval of the Board of Directors; he shall 
sign all legal papers of the Association authorized by the 
Board of Directors.
Section 2. The Vice-Presidents in the order of their desig­
nation shall, in the absence of disability of the President, 
have the power and perform the duties of the President.
Section 3. The Treasurer shall receive all moneys of the 
Association, and shall disburse them under the order of 
the Board of Directors; he shall keep a full account of all 
moneys received and paid out, and report the same to the

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 6



131

Board of Directors when directed. He shall keep all funds 
of the Association and promptly deposit them in such de­
positaries as shall be designated by the Board of Directors.
Section 4. The Recording Secretary shall keep a record 
of the minutes of all meetings of the Board of Directors 
and of the Association and shall attest the minutes with 
his signature; he shall notify all officers of their election 
and all committees of their appointments; he shall notify 
all officers and directors of all business meetings of the 
Association and of the Board of Directors; he shall he 
custodian of the seal of the Association and of the record 
of the minutes of all business meetings.

Article VI

Employed Officials and Staff

Section 1. The General of Executive Secretary shall be 
employed by the Board of Directors and paid such salary 
as may by the Board be from time to time fixed. The 
Executive Secretary shall execute the policies given to him 
by the Board. It shall be his duty to submit to the Board 
of Directors a plan and program for the work of the Asso­
ciation at the beginning of each quarter and when ap­
proved shall constitute the policy of the Board. He shall 
ex officio be a member of all committees unless otherwise 
directed by the Board. He is in General charge of all of 
the Association’s property and its program and shall di­
rect, co-ordinate and administer the property and program 
as directed by the Board of Directors.
Section 2. The General Secretary shall have to assist him 
in the discharge of his duties as Program Secretary, a 
Physical Director, and such other assistants as may be

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 6



132

from time to time authorized by the Board of Directors. 
Such employees shall carry out the duties assigned to them 
by the General Secretary.

Article VII 
Committees

Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 6

Section 1. The President with the approval of the Board 
of Directors shall appoint a chairman and members to the
following standing committees:

Finance Physical Nominating
House Camp Personnel
Membership Church
Publicity Program

Section 2. The chairmen of the committees shall call meet­
ings and the committees shall carry out such programs and 
policies as directed by the Board of Directors when given 
the power to act and shall make such reports to the Board 
of Directors as they may request.

Article VIII
Section 1. These By-Laws may be amended at any regular 
meeting of the Board of Directors by a two-thirds vote of 
all members present.

Adopted this 10th day of September, 1951.

President
Attest:
Recording Secretary



133

In the

UNITED STATE COURT OF APPEALS 

F oe the F ifth Circuit 

No. 25894

Designation of Portion of Record on Appeal
to Be Printed

Blevin Stout and Sammie B ibb, Jr., Individually, and on 
behalf of others similarly situated,

Appellants,
v.

Y oung Men ’s Christian A ssociation 
of B essemer, A labama,

Appellee.

Appeal from the United States District Court 
for the Northern District of Alabama

Designation of Portion of Record 
On  A ppeal to be Printed

Appellants herewith designate the following portions of 
the record on appeal for printing:

1. Complaint
2. (Omit Motion to dismiss (December 12, 1966))
3. (Omit Order Overruling Motion (December 21, 

1966))
4. Answer
5. (Omit Certificate of Service attached to Answer)



134

6. (Omit Pret-trial Order)
7. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law, etc.

8. Judgment
9. Amendment of Judgment

10. Notice of Appeal (omit certificate of service)

11. Clerk’s certificate
12. Transcript of Hearing of December 11, 1967 (all)

13. Plaintiffs’ Exhibits 1-6:
a) Exhibit No. 1—Receipt to Stephen Cotton
b) Exhibit No. 2—Residence application of YMCA 

of Bessemer
c) Exhibit No. 3—Dormitory Regulations of YMCA 

of Bessemer
d) Exhibit No. 4—Interrogatories to defendant and 

answers
e) Exhibit No. 5—Deposition of Cloyce H. Hurst 

taken December 4, 1967
f) Exhibit No. 6—By-laws of Bessemer YMCA

(Omit certificates of service and other formal parts 
of pleadings)

Designation of Portion of Record on Appeal
to Be Printed

14. This designation



135

Original Signed b y :

N orman C. A maker 
Jack Greenberg

10 Columbus Circle 
New York, New York 10019

Oscar W. A dams, Jr.
H arvey M. Burg

1630 Fourth Avenue, North 
Birmingham, Alabama 35203

Attorneys for Appellants

Designation of Portion of Record on Appeal
to Be Printed

Certificate of Service

I hereby certify that on this 16th day of April, 1968, a 
copy of the foregoing was served on J. Howard McEniry, 
Esq., 1721 Fourth Avenue, North, Bessemer, Alabama and 
J. William Patton, Jr., Esq., Huey, Stone & Patton, Realty 
Building, Bessemer, Alabama, by United States Mail, air­
mail postage prepaid.

Original Signed b y :

N orman C. A maker 
Attorney for Appellants



MEILEN PRESS INC. — N. Y. C.«gig*>219