Eaton v. James Walker Memorial Hospital Board of Managers Deposition of Members of Board of Managers

    IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA WILMINGTON DIVISION
Civil Action No. 932

HUBERT A. EATON, et al,
Plaintiffs,

v.
THE BOARD OF MANAGERS OF JAMES WALKER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, a Body Corporate,et al,

Defendants.

DEPOSITIONS OF MEMBERS OF BOARD OF MANAGERS andDR. DANIEL C. ROANE (See Index Page 2)

J

W ill. y.
Court Reporter 

823 Knollwood Street 
Winston-Salem, N. C. 
Phone: PArk 3-6000



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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA

inLMINGTON DIVISION
Civil Action No. 932 

HUBERT A. EATON, et. al.,
Plaintiffs, 

v.
THE BOARD OF MANAGERS OF 
JAMES WALKER MEMORIAL 
HOSPITAL, a Body Corporate, 
e t . al•,

Defendants.

Depositions of the following witnesses were 
taken by plaintiffs before the undersigned Wilda Y. Hauer, 
Official Court Reporter and Notary Public, on Tuesday, 
September 7, 1965, beginning at 10:00 a.m. in the court­
room of the United States Customhouse, Wilmington, North 
Carolina.

It was stipulated and agreed that the signature 
of the witnesses be waived.

APPEARANCES
For Plaintiffs:

Julius LeVonne Chambers, Esq.,
405^ East Trade Street, Charlotte, N. C.

For Defendants:
Cyrus D. Hogue Jr., Esq.,
P. 0. Box 1268, Wilmington, N. C.



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I N D E X

Witnesses Direct Cross Redirect Recross

M. E. Bullard 3 15 18

Allen A. Marshall 20 38 38
40 39

Marcus L. Goldstein 40 38 49 mm mm

0. 0. Allsbrook 50 58 58 —
Dan Penton 59 —
Raymond H. Holland 74 83 84 —

Dr. Joseph C. Knox 86 —
Rye B. Page 96 —
L. A. Raney 113 mm mm

Dr. Samuel E. Warshauer 121 —
Dr. Daniel C. Roane 125 137 146 —

E X H I B I T S
Number Page
D-l Resolution adopted by Board of 

Manager - June 2, 1964
16



3

At the time of the appearance of 
the first witness, Mr, Allan Marshall, Attorney 
at Law, and a member of 3he Board of Managers 
of James Walker Memorial Hospital was present 
In the courtroom, Mr. Chambers, attorney for 
plaintiffs, requested that Mr. Marshall be ex­
cused during the taking of the deposition of 
Mr. Bullard, at which time Mr. Hogue, attorney 
for defendants, stated that Mr. Marshall should 
be allowed to remain in the courtroom as he 
was a party to the suit.

M. E, B U L L A R D ,  having been duly sworn, testified 
as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Will you state your name.
A M. E. Bullard.
Q Mr. Bullard, are you presently a member of 

the Board of Trustees of the James Walker Memorial 
Hospital?

A That is correct.
Q How long have you been a member of the Board?



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A Approximately five years.
Q Were you serving on the Board at the time 

that Dr. Eaton made application for staff privileges at 
the James Walker Memorial Hospital?

A I was.
Q Would you state what was done by the Board of 

Trustees with this application?
A I'm not 3ure that the Board of Managers re­

ceived the application. I think it went through due 
process through the administrator to the credentials 
committee or to the staff. When I knew about it, the 
recommendation of the staff came back to the Board of 
Managers.

Q Did the Board consider the application before 
it was passed on to the staff?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q What is the procedure adopted or established 

by the Board for considering applications for staff 
privileges?

A I'm assuming that the application is made to 
the administrator]; then in turn it is passed on to the 
credentials committee and then to the staff, and their 
recommendation on the application is returned to the 
Board,

Q What happened after the application was returned



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from the staff to the Board with respect to Dr. Eaton*s 
application?

A As I recall, it came to the Board*s attention 
on two different occasions. Number one is when the 
staff made their recommendation not to recommend Dr,
Eaton as a member of the staff. The Board asked that 
the staff review their recommendation to the Board. Then 
it came back at a later date and the same action was 
taken. At that time the administrator was advised to 
write Dr. Eaton of the decision.

Q Why was the application returned the second
time?

A Not the second time, only the one time.
Q I mean, you stated that the Board received

recommendations from the staff to the effect that Dr. 
Eaton not be admitted to the staff.

A That*s correct,
Q And that the staff was asked to reconsider the 

application?
A Let's see, I ’m not sure —  "reconsider" —

I don't believe that is the word I used. We asked them 
to review it,

Q Why was the Board asked to review the 
application after it rejected it the first time?

A You mean why was the 3taff asked to review it?



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Q The staff, yes.
A I think we would have done it under any 

circumstances if the person had not been recommended to 
us.

Q 1516 Board in this instance followed the 
recommendation of the staff and rejected the application 
of Dr. Eaton?

A Ihat is correct.
Q Does the Board in your view have the power to 

either accept or reject the application (recommendation) 
of the staff?

A I would believe so.
Q And that would apply to the application of Dr.

Eaton?
A That is correct.
Q That is, that the Board could either reject or 

accept the recommendation of the staff?
A That would be correct.
Q In the instance of Dr. Eaton, the Board follow­

ed the recommendation of the staff without considering 
why the staff refused to recommend Dr. Eaton's admittance 
to the staff?

A Well, I'm sure we considered it by asking 
that it be returned to them on the first occasion to be
reviewed



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Q Did the Board make any specific inquires to 
determine why the staff rejected the application?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q The Board made no attempt to inquire as to the 

reasons for the staff's particular recommendation?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q Mr. Bullard, to set the record straight, the 

only thing that was done by the Board in this instance 
with respect to Dr. Eaton's application was to return 
the application after the initial rejection requesting a 
review by the staff; is that correct?

A That is correct.
Q And you made no investigation whatever to de­

termine the reason for the staff's recommendation?
A That is correct.
q  Would you state what the Board has done since

the ruling of the United States District Court in August 
of 1964 to comply with that order?

A Well, now, what would be the order? I'm not 
real familiar now with what you are talking about.

Q The order, as I understand it, requires that 
the Board cease discriminating against Negro patients 
and Negro physicians at the James Walker Memorial 
Hospital.

q  That is true. And I believe that it is



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determined that they have complied.
Q What steps did the Board take to comply?
A All the rooms, so far as I know, are completely

in compliance. So far as the physicians are concerned, 
we have had applications, they have been approved - 
with the exception of this particular one - like all 
applications have been approved.

The facilities - that is, the eating facilities 
have been completely integrated, and so have the waiting 
rooms. So far as I know at this time, everything has 
been complied with.

Q Were any specific directives adopted by the 
Board to order compliance with the court's order?

A Yes, I'm sure that there was. I believe it's 
on record to that effect.

Q What were these steps?
A The ones that I have Just mentioned.
Q What did you do with respect to physicians

or applications by Negro physicians for staff privileges?
A All staff privileges that were recommended 

by the staff were accepted with the exception of this 
one.

Q Did you adopt or change your by-laws with 
respect to staff admission?

A We did not.



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Q You have made no changes at all in your 
by-laws?

A To the best of my knowledge, we have not.
Q Then the by-laws you had regarding staff 

admission are the same as you had prior to the court's 
order?

A I think that is correct.
Q Did you take any steps to insure that the 

physicians who voted on the applications of the Negro 
physicians were not acting on the basis of race or 
color?

A I ’m not sure that we have contacted any of 
them a3 a Board. I Just don't see how they could have 
done that in the face of having recommended other 
Negro physicians to the staff.

Q The Board itself made no attempt to insure
that they did not, did it?

A 3o far as I know, we did not.
Q The staff, voting on the application of Dr.

Eaton, then followed the same procedure that they 
followed with respect to other staff admissions prior to 
the 1964 order?

A That is correct.
Q And the discretion allowed the staff in this 

instance by the Board allowed the staff to decide what



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Negro physicians to accept and what to reject, is that
correct?

A Well, let's say "all" physicians. I don't 
think that would be exactly fair.

Q It would permit them to reject any Negro
physicians that they wanted to?

A Or any other physician.
Q Or any other physician?
A That's right.
Q On any grounds they v;anted to?
A That is correct.
Q Even on the basis of race?
A That would be oorrect also.
Q And you made no determination at all to 

find out whether they did reject Dr. Eaton's application 
on the basis of race or any other subjective reason?

A Not to my knowledge, no.
Q The staff in this instance, then - that is, 

with respect to Dr. Eaton - might have rejected his 
application for any subjective reason they wanted to?

A For any reason,
Q If they didn't like the way he looked; if

they didn't like the color of his hair; or if they 
didn't like his race? Is that correct?

A That is correct.



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Q And If this were done in this Instance, the 
Board made no attempt at all to find out if that were the 
case?

A And I doubt If we could have found out.
Q It is true, isn't it, Mr. Bullard, that the

Board here has allowed the staff a very broad discretion 
in accepting or rejecting staff members?

A That is certainly true.
Q Are you aware of Dr. Eaton's participation in 

civil rights activities here in the community?
A May I answer this way: I am no more aware of 

that than I am his other activities in the community.
I was associated with Dr. Eaton for some four or five 
years, so I am very well acquainted with him.

Q It is true, isn't it, Mr. Bullard, that Dr. 
Eaton has been quite active In civil rights activities?

A Well, I'm not sure.
Q Are you aware of the fact that Dr. Eaton 

was instrumental in the school desegregation suit problem?
A No, sir, I'm not.
Q You are aware that he was Instrumental in 

the hospital suit problem?
A I beg your pardon?
Q I say you are aware that he was Instrumental 

in the hospital suit case?



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A That's true.
Q, Are you aware of Dr. Eaton's position on the

bond issue for the new hospital that is now being con­
structed ?

A I do not recall that.
Q Mr. Bullard, suppose the staff in this in­

stance had rejected Dr. Eaton's application because he 
had opposed the bond issue for the new hospital, would 
you say that that would be a valid basis for rejecting 
his application?

A Well, we would not have known why they rejected 
Dr. Eaton.

Q Suppose they were the reasons for the rejection 
of his application?

A Well, now, aren't we Just presupposing something 
now? I'm not sure that I could answer that question.

Q Well, let me ask you this: Would it be a
valid basis for rejecting his application that Dr.
Eaton was opposed to the bond issue ?

A Well, in my personal opinion that would not be 
a valid reason.

Q It would not be a valid reason?
A No,
Q Would it be a valid reason for rejecting Dr. 

Eaton's application that Dr. Eaton had brought this



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particular proceeding against the hospital?
A It would not, personally.
Q Or that he had served as the plaintiff in 

a suit against the school board?
A No, it would not.
Q Or that he had opposed Medicare or was in 

favor of Medicare?
A No.
Q Mr. Bullard, if the staff rejected Dr. Eaton's 

application because he was opposed to the bond issue, 
then the staff and the Board has rejected Dr. Eaton's 
application for an invalid reason?

A Well, if the staff rejected him for that 
particular reason and we did not know the reason, then 
I don't think this is a fair question to the Board - 
that we did it for an invalid reason.

MR. CHAMBERS: Would you read the answer,
please ?

(Last answer read by reporter.)
BY MR. CHAMBERS:

Q You stated, didn’t you, Mr. Bullard, that it 
would be an invalid reason to reject Dr. Eaton's applicatior 
because he opposed the bond issue?

A I stated that I, personally, would not have 
rejected his application because he opposed the bond



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Issue
Q Don't you think it is an invalid reason - 

that is, that he was opposed to the bond issue?
MR. HOGUE: I am going to object to these

questions, and I would like the objection in 
the record. Of course, we've got the right 
to object later. But in the interest of time, 
what this witness supposes or doesn't suppose 
is an invalid reason is what the court is to 
determine. I assume that these are conclusions 
which I do not know that this witness is 
qualified to answer. He's not a doctor, he's 
a layman.

MR. CHAMBERS: I will withdraw the ques­
tion.

Q Mr. Bullard, do you know of any reason why 
Dr, Eaton should not be admitted to the staff?

A I do not, other than the fact that we did not 
receive a recommendation from a group that is supposed to 
be qualified to pass on an application.

Q It is true, isn't it, Mr. Bullard, that Dr. 
Eaton's application was passed on favorably by the 
credentials committee?

A I wish I could answer that question. I might 
have heard that it was; I'm not sure that it is in the



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record that it was. Someone else possibly could answer 
it.

Q It is normal procedure for the credentials 
committee to pass favorably before it is sent to the 
staff?

A That is correct.
Q And in this sense it was sent to the staff?
A I understand that it was.
Q Mr. Bullard, I have Just a few more questions. 

Your present procedure provides for a secret balloting 
by the staff with respect to applications for staff 
privileges?

A I understand that is the by-laws of the staff.
Q Do you know of any steps presently planned 

to change this procedure?
A I ‘m not sure that I could answer that question. 

Possibly it has been under discussion. But as to whether 
steps have been taken to change it, I'm not sure.

MR. CHAMBERS: Your witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Mr. Bullard, I believe you are presently 

chairman of the Board of Managers?



A That Is correct.
Were you on the Board of Managers on JuneQ

22, 1964?
A That's correct.
Q I hand you this resolution adopted by the 

Board on June 22, 1964, and ask you to state whether or 
not chat is a true copy of the action taken by the Board 
as of June 22, 1964, with respect to the suit then 
pending between Dr. Eaton and the Board with respect to 
desegregation of the hospital?

A To ray knowledge that Is correct.

Document referred to above 
marked DEPENDANTS' EXHIBIT 
NO. 1.______________________

Q Mr. Bullard, with respect to that action of 
June the 22nd, is it your information that steps have 
been taken along the lines set out in that resolution 
to desegregate the hospital?

A That is correct.
q Now, Mr. Bullard, with respect to Dr. Eaton's 

application, isn't it true that it was handled in the 
same manner that other applications of white or Negro 
doctors were handled?

That is correct



EXHIBIT "A"

RESOLUTION
ADOPTED BY THE BOARD OF MANAGERS 
JAMES WALKER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

June 22, 1964

WHEREAS, on April 1, 1964, in the suit entitled H. A. Eaton, et al v. 
the Board of Managers of James Walker Memorial Hospital, it has been de­
termined by the fourth Circuit Court of Appeals that this Hospital is a
Public Hospital and subject to the restraints of the Fourteenth Amendment; and

WHEREAS, the Board of Managers has been advised by counsel that the 
decision is not appealable, and that in the opinion of counsel there has 
been such a change in the lav and in the atmosphere of the courts vlth 
respect to the metiers and things involved in such litigation that it is 
his opinion that this Hospital is subject to the restraint of the Fourteenth 
Amendment with respect to all Medical Staff members and patients of the 
Hospital; and

WHEREAS, since the decision of this case the Board feels it necessary 
to set forth its policy vlth respect to its status as a public corporation;

NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVEDt
1. That in determining the qualifications of applicants for the Medical 

Staff of the Hospital no consideration shall be given to the race or color 
of the applicant by this Board, the Credentials Committee, or by the Medical
Staff,

2. That with respect to the treatment of patients, all patlenta shall 
be assigned quarters in the Hospital upon admission in accordance vlth the 
vacancies available and shell be entitled to request new assignments in the 
event they are not satisfied vlth the assignment made to them upon entrance 
into the Hospital. In the event new room assignments ara requested, the 
Administrative Staff of the Hospital is Instructed to provide such room 
assignments aa may be aviilabl^ so long as it does not affect the health 
or safety of any other patient in the Hospital, and furthar so long as the 
patient la able to make the necessary financial arrangements.

3. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT A COPY OF THIS Resolution be furnished 
to the head of ecch Administrative Department, to the President, Secretary, 
and each Departmental Chief of the Medical Staff, together with a letter 
from the Director advising them that this policy will be adhered to by the 
Board.

2 DEFENDANT’S 
] EXHIBIT



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Q And isn't it true that three Negro doctors 
have been accepted on the staff?

A That is correct.
Q Now, Mr. Bullard, you are not a doctor; is

that correct?
A That is correct.
Q And would you say that it is a correct state­

ment to say that you, as a member of the Board, feel that 
the physician members of the staff are more able to pass 
upon the qualifications of applicants than the members 
of the Board?

A That is correct.
Q And the Board has relied upon their recommenda­

tions with respect to Dr. Eaton?
A That is correct.
Q And it relied upon their recommendation with 

respect to Dr, Roane, is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Who was a Negro doctor?
A Yes, sir.
Q And with respect to Dr. Wheeler who was a 

Negro doctor?
A That is correct.
q  And with respect to Dr. Gray who was a Negro 

doctor?



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A That 13 correct.
Q And all of those were accepted on the staff?
A ttiat is correct.

MR. HOGUE: I have no further questions.

REDIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Bullard, I have just a few. Is it true 

that prior to the order entered by the court to which 
this Defendants' Exhibit 1 refers, that Negro patients 
were placed in a building that was separated from the 
main hospital?

A I believe, actually, Mr. Martin would have
to answer that question. I might have heard about it, 
but to my knowledge I have not seen it.

Q Do you know of your own knowledge whether 
any whites have now been assigned to that wing?

A The administrator was directed to assign all 
patients to all parts of the hospital.

Q You do not know of your own knowledge whether 
this actually has been carried out, do you?

A No, I do not.
Q Do you know of your own knowledge whether 

any of the directives included in this Exhibit 1 of the



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defendants have been carried out?
A Now, the administrator has been directed to 

carry out all of them, and I am assuming that all of 
them have been carried out.

Q You have had no follow-up to this?
A There has been some follow-up, yes. He has 

made a report, a report at the last meeting, that all 
recommendations had been followed up and were now in 
effect.

Q But no independent investigation by the Board 
except through the administrator?

A Maybe by some members of the Board. I have
not.

Q Mr. Bullard, what do you feel is the purpose 
of the credentials committee of the staff?

A I would think to pass on the qualifications 
of an applicant.

Q And if it passes favorably on the qualifications 
of the staff, is this an indication that the applicant 
is qualified?

A I really do not know.
Q Do you feel that you should reject the 

recommendations of the credentials committee and accept 
the recommendations of the staff?

A We did not receive the recommendations of the



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credentials committee, only the recommendations of the 
staff, as I recall.

MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions.

A L L E N  A. M A R S H A L L ,  having been duly sworn, 
testified as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q State your name, please.
A My name is Allen A. Marshall.
Q Mr. Marshall, are you presently a member of 

the Board of Managers of the James Walker Memorial 
Hospital?

A Yes, sir.
Q How long have you been a member of the Board?
A Since about 1948 or '49. I do not recall.
Q You were a member of the Board of Managers at 

the time that Dr. Eaton's application for staff 
privileges was considered by the Board, is that correct?

A I was a member of the Board when his applica­
tion came to the Board of Managers from the staff and



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through the - that's the medical staff - through the 
director, in accordance with the procedure prescribed 
by the by-laws, rules and regulations, of the staff.

Q You participated as a Board member in the 
Board's consideration of his a plication?

A To the extent that I have just stated.
Q Dr. Eaton's application was first considered,

I think, by the Board in December 1964; is that 
correct?

A I do not recall.
Q It was before the Board on two occasions?
A My recollection is that it has been before

the Board on two occasions.
Q Will you state what happened to his application 

on the first occasion it was before the Board?
A I do not recall specifically. The minutes 

of the Board meeting would show.
Q What accounted for its being before the Board 

on a second occasion?
A I do not know.
Q Did you vote as a Board member when it was 

before the Board on the first occasion?
A I do not recall,
Q Do you recall whether you voted on the

second occasion?



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A I do not recall. The minutes of both meetings 

would show.
MR. HOGUE* I might enter into the record 

at this Juncture that the minutes of both of 
those meetings were furnished to the plaintiff 
or movent in our answers to their interroga­
tories which were dated April 12, 19^5•

MR. CHAMBERS* Those minutes, however, do 
not reflect the specific action of the witness, 
nor his understanding of the action.

BY MR. CHAMBERS*
Q Mr. Marshall, is it your understanding that 

the Board follows the recommendation of the staff with 
respect to applications for staff privileges?

A When you say "Board,” do you mean the Board 
of Managers?

Q, Hie Board of Managers.
A And when you say "staff," do you mean the

medical staff?
Q Hie medical staff.
A Yes, that is my understanding.
Q Do you know whether any steps were taken by 

the Board to determine the reasons for the particular 
recommendation by the staff?

A Not to my recollection.



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Q Were any steps taken on the occasion in which 
Dr. Eaton*a application was considered to determine the 
reason for the recommendation by the medical staff?

A Not to my recollection. My recollection is 
that his application was processed in the same manner 
in which all applications are processed, and that his 
application xuas treated in no way other than any other 
application.

Q No independent steps were taken by the Board 
to determine why the staff refused to recommend his 
admission to the staff?

A Not to my knowledge. And I have no recollec­
tion of any such action having ever been so taken by 
the Board of Managers.

Q, Is it your understanding that the court*s 
order of August 1964 enjoined discrimination with respect 
to Negro physicians for staff privileges?

A I do not recall whether I have read the 
order in its entirety. I perhaps have. But from hearsay, 
yes, I think that was probably my understanding.

Q You do not know, therefore, as a Board member 
whether the staff in rejecting Dr. Eaton's application 
acted because of race?

A No, other than what I have heard which, of 
course, is purely hearsay. I have heard a number of them



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say that Dr. Eaton’s race had absolutely nothing to do 
with the manner in which---

Q No independent steps were taken by the 
Board---

A Would you let me complete my sentence, please? 
(To reporter) Would you read that question and my answer 
there?

(The reporter) "Q - You do not know, 
therefore, as a Board member whether the 
staff in rejecting Dr. Eaton’s application 
acted because of race?

"A - No, other than what I have heard 
which, of course, is purely hearsay. I have 
heard a number of them say that Dr. Eaton’s 
race had absolutely nothing to do with the 
manner in which---"

A (Continuing) ---his application was handled.
MR. CHAMBERS s Let me cut off the witness 

there, I think we would prefer the witness 
explain that at some later time. He stated 
that that was hearsay and it wasn't information 
he gathered through regular procedures as a 
member of the Board. The witness has answered 
the question "No," he does not know, and I 
don’t think that the statements that were



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following his answer really serve to explain 
his answer to the question.

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Marshall, would you state what steps have 

been taken by the Board to follow or carry out the order 
of the court of August 1964?

A Such steps as have been recommended by counsel 
for the hospital.

Q Do you know of your own knowledge whether the 
hospital has ceased assigning only Negroes to the wing 
to which Negroes were formerly assigned at the hospital?

A No, I do not, of my own knowledge. The policy 
of the hospital is now a matter of record, and I should 
think that that speaks for itself.

Q, Mr. Marshall, if the staff acted for sub­
jective reasons on the application of Dr. Eaton, then 
the Board of Managers has accepted this recommendation 
without specific steps taken to determine that the 
Board’s action resulted because of some subjective 
reason; is that correct?

A Is that a question?
Q I ’ll rephrase it. I agree with you, Mr. 

Marshall.
Is it true that the Board took no specific

steps to determine the reason for the staff's



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A None to my recollection, as I have heretofore 
stated or undertaken to state. So far as I know, the 
application of Dr. Eaton was handled in the same way as 
all applications.

Q If no steps were taken by the Board, then 
if the staff acted because of some subjective reason, 
the Board would not know what the particular reason would 
be?

A I don't understand your question.
Q Since you took no steps to determine why 

the staff refused to recommend Dr. Eaton's admission to 
the staff, you do not know whether the staff acted 
because of some subjective reason?

A No more than any other recommendation by the 
staff. I am not certain that I understand what you mean 
when you use the word '’subjective.” So far as I am 
personally concerned, this application was handled in 
the same way as all other applications. To my knowledge 
that was the case. And I assume that the doctors were 
much better qualified to pass upon applicants, had 
valid reasons to themselves. And I respect our staff; 
we have an excellent staff. None of them, so far as 
I know, would have what you would call "subjective'' 
reasons, whatever they are. I would think, and I have 
relied upon their recommendations as being based on what



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they thought was in the best interest of the hospital, 
patients who are treated there, and doctors who practice 
there, it being, of course, the primary objective of 
a hospital to treat sick people and help them to get 
well. And the doctors are the ones who do that. I am 
not a doctor,

Q That's very good, Mr, Marshall, but if no 
steps were taken to determine why the staff acted as it 
did, you would not know of your own knowledge why the 
particular recommendation was made?

A No, I wouldn't know specifically, no,
Q It might have been, therefore, because of

race?

you?

A I don't say that it would, no.
Q You can't say that it was not either, can

No.A
Q It might have been because he was opposed to 

the bond issue?
I do not know.
It might have been?
Oh, well, we could speculate on a great many

A
Q
A

things, 
Q 
A

Since the Board does not know why---
I am not here to speculate; I am here to answer



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your questions, and I can't take myself within the minds 
of the people who passed on this application in accordance 
with the orderly procedure prescribed.

Q Do you consider as a valid reason to reject 
an application that the applicant was opposed to a bond 
issue for the construction of a new hospital?

A That would depend upon related factors. I 
couldn't say. It would have to come before me and I 
would have to know all of the facts.

Q Well, the fact that Dr. Eaton was opposed 
to the bond issue for the construction of a new hospital - 
do you consider that a valid reason for refusing his 
admission to the staff?

A I do not know, because I am not a doctor. I 
would have to take that in relation to all other 
factors which the doctors would consider.

Q Would that have anything to do with his 
medical competence?

A It might, and it might not. I don't know; I'm 
not a doctor.

Q Do you know the names of any white physicians 
who have been denied staff privileges at the hospital?

A No. But I understand there have been.
Q Do you recall any white physician being 

denied staff privileges during your time on the Board?



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Q Isn't it your understanding, Mr. Marshall, 
that practically all of the white physlcans in Wilmington 
are members of the Btaff of James Walker Memorial 
Hospital?

A No, it's not my understanding.
Q Or have been members?
A It's possible. 1 do not know.
Q Don't you consider it an important function 

of a surgeon to have privileges to practice in the 
hospital?

A I do not know.
Q It's essential for him to carry on his 

practice, is it not?
A I do not know.
Q Mr. Marshall, under the present procedure, 

the staff could reject an applicant for staff privileges 
for any reason, and the Board would not know why the 
applicant was being denied staff privileges; is that 
correct?

A That is correct.
Q Do you consider this a valid procedure?
A Yea. I think it's a highly desirable pro­

cedure. The members of the Board of Managers are laymen, 
with exception of alternating doctors who serve from time

A Not to my recollection.



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to time.
Q This procedure can be abused, can It not?
A Let me fini3h my sentence. The reason I 

think it's basically a sound procedure, I think I have 
stated before - at least I have alluded to It - the 
doctors are qualified, are the best qualified people to 
pass upon the qualifications of doctors] laymen are 
not. V/e are not there every day; we do not see all of 
the patients, so we do not know what the patients' 
problems are; we do not know what the doctors' problems 
are. We are not medical people. There are a great 
many factors that perhaps doctors would take into 
consideration in passing upon the qualifications or 
lack of qualifications of an applicant which might not 
occur to a layman. And so I think that it is basically 
a sound, logical, reasonable procedure, and one which 
I would not like to see changed.

And, of course, it is also true that when a 
doctor is admitted to the staff of any hospital, there 
arise certain responsibilities, duties, and obligations 
which are limitless in their magnitude. And I would 
not like to think that I, as a layman, would be burdened 
with the responsibility of passing upon the qualifications 
of a medical expert who will be treating sick people 
whose welfare would be in his hands, perhaps their



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life
Q Mr. Marshall, isn't it a fact that this 

power which you now vest in the staff can he abused - 
that is, that the staff can now reject an applicant 
for any reason it sees fit, constitutional or other­
wise?

A All power and authority can be abused. I do 
not accept, though, your implication that our staff has 
abused the power given it because, as I have heretofore 
said, they are very fine men and very fine doctors, 
very conscientious people. And I would like to think, 
and do think, that whatever their reasons were for 
voting against Dr. Eaton were sound and valid reasons 
to them as individuals and, particularly, as doctors 
who are members of Dr, Eaton's own profession.

Q You do not know of your own knowledge whether 
that was the case?

A No, of course I don't.
Q And, Mr. Marshall, you do not know whether 

the staff has rejected Dr. Eaton's application because 
of his race?

A No. But I would think that they did not.
q  But the Board took no steps to determine 

whether that was the case?
A No. Because, as I have told you before at least



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on three occasions, so far as I know Dr. Eaton*8 applica­
tion was processed In the same manner In which all other 
applications have been processed.

Q You, as a member of the Board, do not know 
whether or not the Board has carried out the court's 
order of 1964, do you, since you don't know whether the 
staff has now rejected his application because of 
race?

A I have said to you that it is a matter of 
record what the recommendations of our counsel were, 
and it is my understanding that those recommendations 
have been followed. I am not in the hospital every 
day* I do not know to what extent they have been followed 
or have not been followed; I am not able to tell you.

Q Mr. Marshall, what do you consider the 
function of the credentials committee is?

A Of the staff?
Q Of the staff.
A I do not know.
Q If the function is to determine the

qualifications of an applicant for staff privileges, and 
that credentials committee passes favorably upon the 
applicant, would you consider this as a favorable action 
on the part of the credentials committee that the 
applicant should be admitted to the staff?



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Q Why not ?
A Because X do not know the relationship between 

the credentials committee and the staff.
q X have stated that if the function of the 

credentials committee is to determine the qualification 
of the applicant, isn’t its action sufficient to de­
termine the qualifications of an applicant?

A No, No, it would not be to me.
Q What other factors should be considered?
A I do not know) I'm not a doctor.
Q Do you know of Dr. Eaton's activities in 

civil rights activities here in Wilmington?
A Only what I see through the paper.
Q Do you know that he has been involved in the

suit for desegregation of the schools here?
A Yes.
Q Do you know he has been involved in this 

particular proceeding?
A He's the plaintiff, is he not?
q  Do you know of Dr, Eaton's position on the

recent—
A Is he the plaintiff or one of the plaintiffs?
Q One of the plaintiffs.

Do you know that Dr, Eaton has been opposed to

A Not necessarily, no.



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the recently passed bond Issue for construction of a new 
hospital?

A I do not know whether he was opposed to it.
My recollection is that we met with Dr, Eaton and the 
other Negro doctors when the first bond issue was 
coming along, and we undertook to re-explore the crying 
need for additional hospital facilities in Wilmington 
for all people. And I think Dr, Eaton was there. And 
it was my recollection that there was no one there at 
that meeting not in accord with a view that a hospital 
was very badly needed. And I had assumed that all of 
the doctors in Wilmington, following that meeting, 
would come out actively and support the new hospital.

And I think it was said in that meeting that 
the new hospital would be operated in keeping with the 
requirements of the state and federal laws in all 
respects, and that all doctors who were qualified to 
practice there would be permitted to practice. And 
thereafter I had understood - and much to my shock and 
surprise, I might say personally, that some of the 
Negro doctors actively opposed it. I do not know 
whether Dr, Eaton was one of those Negro doctors or 
not.

Q Do you know why the Negro physicians opposed
the bond issue?



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A No. No, I can’t imagine why they wouldj I 
wouldn’t like to think.

Q Did you take any steps at that meeting to 
assure the Negro physicians that they would receive 
staff privileges at the new hospital?

A Yes. Yes, we did. At that meeting some of 
the Negro doctors - and I do not recall who they were - 
but some of them wanted a "guarantee" as one of them 
expressed it - and I don’t recall which one it was - 
that every Negro doctor be permitted to practice in 
that hospital regardless of his qualification; and, 
of course, no such guarantee could be given. It was 
said to them that if they were qualified, that they 
would be admitted to practice.

Q Mr, Marshall, at that time wasn’t it a fact 
that the James Walker Memorial Hospital did not admit 
Negro staff members?

A There were none on the staff, as I recall, at 
that time.

q  Wasn’t it also a fact, Mr. Marshall, that 
Negro patients were placed in a separate wing at the 
hospital?

A Some were.
Q In fact, only Negroes were placed in this

wing?



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Q Bie Negroes had a valid reason for fearing 
that the new hospital would carry on the same practices, 
didn't they?

A I don't know.
Q Would you consider it a valid reason for 

rejecting Dr. Eaton's application that he was opposed to 
the bond issue and had participated in civil rights 
activities here in Wilmington?

A I don't know.
Q Do you think this is a valid reason?
A I don't know.
Q Do you know of any reason why Dr. Eaton 

should not be admitted to the staff?
A I am not a doctor.
Q Do you know of any steps presently taken or 

planned to abolish the secret ballot system of the 
staff?

A No.
Q Mr. Marshall, I have one or two other questions. 

Is it a fact that the by-laws that you presently operate 
under with respect to staff admission are the same 
by-laws you followed prior to August of 1964?

A I don't know. I think they speak for them­
selves. Aren't the by-laws in this lawsuit as a matter of

A I don't know.



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MR. HOGUEi May I say this: that the 
by-laws have not been changed, but the policy 
has been changed by this resolution of June 
the 22nd which we have put in evidence. The 
by-laws didn't have to be changed; the policy 
is changed.

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Prior to August of 1964, you followed the 

procedure of staff physicians voting secretly on an 
applicant for admission to the staff; is that correct?

A 1 assume so. I have never attended a staff 
meeting in which applications were considered,

Q Biis same procedure 1b followed today?
A So far as I know.
Q And was followed with respect to Dr, Eaton's 

application?
A So far as I know. As I have said before, I 

know nothing that would indicate that Dr, Eaton's 
application was not handled in the same manner in which 
all applications were handled,

Q And under this procedure, am applicant can 
be rejected for any reason, and there is no way that 
the Board can determine that the applicant was not re­
jected because of race or some other invalid reason?

record?



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MR. CHAMBERS: Your witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Mr. Marshall, did Dr. Eaton's race have any­

thing to do with any action you may or may not have 
taken with respect to his application?

MR. CHAMBERS: Objection.
A None whatsoever.
Q Did you, as a member of the Board of Managers, 

interfere in any way with the procedures of the medical 
staff with respect to Dr. Eaton's application?

A I certainly did not. In no way*
MR, HOGUE: I have no further questions.

REDIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Marshall, while you state that race had 

nothing to do with your consideration of Dr. Eaton's 
application, you do not know as a fact that it did not 
have some bearing on the consideration by the staff?

A No, I don't know it as a fact any more than

A I don't know.



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any related fact which might have occurred, except as I 
have heretofore said in the taking of this deposition 
that so far as I know, it did not.

Q And it might have been a factor as well as 
other factors like his objection to the bond issue?

A If you want to get into the realm of 
speculation and surmise, you might possibly use the 
word ’'might" if you might like to use the word "might." 
But when you use the word "might," you are making many, 
many surmises and speculations - which is wholly beyond 
the realm of fact.

MR. CHAMBERS) Hiank you, Mr. Marshall.
MR. HOGUE: I have one question.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Mr. Marshall, the reasons for the staff 

recommending it might have been privileged reasons that 
the doctors themselves knew which they did not want to 
disclose; isn’t that correct?

A Absolutely.
Q And they could be based on sound medical 

reasons, couldn't they?
A Absolutely.



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Q Or ethical or moral reasons?
A Absolutely.

MR. HOGUE: I have no further questions.

REDIRECT-EXAMI NATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Marshall, whether that were the case or 

not, you do not know; Is that correct?
A I do not know how I could make myself more 

clear than I have heretofore. I think I have told you 
on several occasions that I didn‘t know.

MR. CHAMBERS: Thank you, Mr. Marshall.

M A R C U S  L. G O L D S T E I N ,  having been duly sworn, 
testified as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q State your name, please,
A Marcus Goldstein.
Q Mr. Goldsteip, are you presently a member of



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the Board of Managers of the James Walker Memorial 
Hospital?

A I am.
Q How long have yon been a member of that 

hospital board?
A Approximately eight years.
Q You were serving in that capacity when the 

application of Dr. Eaton was considered by the Boardj is 
that correct?

A Yes.
Q The application of Dr, Eaton was considered on 

two separate occasions, is that correct - that is, 
considered by the Board on two separate occasions?

A It seems to me that we got this application 
and it was unfavorable, and we asked the medical board 
to review it again.

Q Was it normal procedure for the Board to refer 
the application back to the staff for review?

A As a rule. Well, not as a rule, but on the 
two or three occasions that this has happened since I 
have been on the Board, it seems to me that we asked 
them to review it again.

Q Would you state what those two or three 
occasions were?

A No, I can't. I can't think of the doctors.



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Q You are stating that on two or three occasions 
during the eight years you have been on the Board that 
the Board has requested that the staff review an 
application when the staff has reported unfavorably on 
the application?

A No, I can'tj not on an application, no. I 
want to take that former statement back.

Q Is this the first such occasion that you re­
call where the Board referred the application back for 
reconsideration by the staff?

A Yes.
Q Is it your understanding that the Board can 

either reject or accept the recommendation of the 
staff?

A Well, no. I would think that we would go 
along with the staff. I think that is the way I would 
have to react.

Q Would that be your position if the staff had 
acted on the basis of race?

A I didn’t hear that.
Q I say would that be your position if the 

staff had refused to recommend the admission of a par­
ticular applicant because of his race?

A My position would be if the medical staff 
rejected a man, I would have to take the medical staff’s



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recommendation.
Q Even if the medical staff had rejected the 

man because of his race?
A If I thought deep in my heart that they re­

jected him because of his race, I think that I might 
vote no on it.

Q Then it is your position that the Board can 
either accept or reject the recommendation of the 
staff?

A Well, working it on that basis, that's 
possible, although I haven't had enough experience on 
this Board to run into all of these problems that you 
are raising.

Q Mr. Goldstein, of your own knowledge did the
Board take any steps to determine why the staff refused 
to recommend Dr. Eaton's admission to the staff?

A To my own knowledge I think there were 
questions raised at the Board meeting, and that is why 
it was sent back to the Board for review.

Q What questions were raised at the first 
consideration of the application by the Board?

A I'm not sure - and your records will tell 
you - if I was present at the first meeting.

Q You are stating that even if you were 
there, you don't recall what those particular questions



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were?
A Yes, I would say that.
Q Mr. Goldstein, after the application was 

returned to the Board a second time, what specific 
steps, if any, did the Board take to determine why 
the staff refused to recommend Dr. Eaton’s admission 
to the staff?

A Well, there were some questions asked back 
and forth. We got no answers except the fact that 
it was a secret ballot of the staff. Certain members 
who were pro Dr. Eaton did not like the secret ballot 
and things of this sort; but since it came from the 
staff to reject Dr. Eaton, since they did not approve 
of him, there was no alternative for the 3oard except 
to go along with the staff.

Q And you made no determination as to why the 
staff refused to recommend Dr. Eaton's admission?

A No.
Q The staff might have acted, therefore, out

of any subjective reasons it wanted to?
A That's problematical.
Q It might, in fact, have refused to admit 

him because of his race?
A (No answer.)
Q It might have refused to admit him because



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he was opposed to the bond issue?
A This I don’t know. I don't know that he was 

opposed to the bond issue.
Q If he were opposed to the bond issue, and if 

he has been active in civil rights activity, would you 
consider these valid reasons to refuse to admit him to 
the staff?

A No.
Q These would be too subjective?
A Would have nothing at all to do with it.
Q Mr. Goldstein, what specific steps to your 

recollection ha3 the Board taken to carry out the order 
of the United States District Court of August 1964, 
requiring that the Board cease discriminating against 
Negro patients and physicians?

A Well, I think the Board has gone along with 
it to quite an extent in that we have asked our ad­
ministrator to serve people on a first-come-first-serve 
basis, as they come in to take care of them, give them 
the area they want. We have gone along with it in 
the dining rooms, and the various other areas. I think 
we have gone along with it.

Q Do you know of your own knowledge, Mr. 
Goldstein, whether any white patients have since been 
assigned to the formerly all-Negro wing of the



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hospital?
A No, I don't.
Q It still might be predominantly Negro?
A I don't know.
Q Mr. Goldstein, you really don't know as a 

Board member whether you have denied Dr. Eaton's 
application because of his race, do you?

A No, sir, I don't,
Q And there have been no specific steps by

the Board to determine that this was not the case, have 
there ?

A That•s right.
Q Is it your understanding, Mr. Goldstein, 

that Dr. Eaton has been quite active in civil rights 
activities here in Wilmington?

A Not particularly.
Q Do you know that he has been a plaintiff in 

a suit here to desegregate the public schools?
A Yes.
q  And he is a plaintiff in this particular 

proceeding?
A Yes.
Q You stated a moment ago that you weren't 

familiar with his position on the bond issue?
A That's correct. I may have been at the time



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of the bond Issue, but I don't recollect it now.
Q Do you know of any reason why Dr. Eaton 

shouldn't be admitted to the staff?
A No, except for the staff question.
Q Mr. Goldstein, don't you feel that a

surgeon, particularly, would need a hospital to carry 
on his profession?

A A surgeon? Yes.
Q It's an essential to his profession, isn't

it?
A I would think so.
Q Do you feel that a surgeon or any physician 

should be denied staff privileges for purely subjective 
reasons ?

A Well, you would have to spell these subjective 
reasons out; and if you are saying "race," I'll go along 
with you,

Q, Race?
A I don’t think he should be denied.
Q Hiat he was opposed to the bond issue for the

construction of a new hospital?
A No, I don't think he should be denied.
Q lhat he has been active in civil rights

activities?
A No.



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Q Don't you feel that the secret ballot pro­
cedure permits the staff to deny a physician staff 
privileges for these things?

A Ihls is the staff. Now, this is the way 
they operate. I'm not the one to give you any yea or 
nay on what the staff wants to do.

Q But the secret ballot procedure permits--
A I think as Marcus Goldstein that it's not a 

good thing, but I can't speak for the Board.
Q You, personally, feel that it is a bad pro­

cedure?
A I think it's wrong, yes.
Q It carries these built-in infirmities - that 

is, it permits the type of abuse that we have described? 
That is, it permits the staff to reject an applicant 
for subjective reasons?

A Well, I think it's wrong. For lots of
reasons I think it's wrong.

MR. CHAMBERS* Ihank you, Mr. Goldstein.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE*
Q Mr. Goldstein, this procedure could result 

in wrong, but it could also provide a doctor a method of



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keeping someone off the staff if he had a valid reason 
which, for professional reasons, he did not want to 
disclose, couldn’t it?

A Yes, sir.
Q And in that sense, it might be a better way 

to do it, than having an open discussion of the matter?
A Yes, sir. I said if he spelled it out,

Mr. Hogue; and if we were talking of race, I think it 
would be wrong. And that is where I drew the line,
Mr. Hogue.

MR. HOGUE: I have no further questions.

REDIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Goldstein, I have Just one question here. 

Is it a fact that the Board has not changed the by-laws 
governing applications for staff admission except the 
resolutions that you adopted June 22, 1964?

MR. HOGUE: I will stipulate that, Mr.
Chambers. There's no need to go into that.
We have not changed those by-laws. We passed 
this policy statement on June 22nd.

MR. CHAMBERS: Thank you, Mr. Hogue. I
have no further questions.



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0. 0. A L L S B R 0 0 K ,  having been duly sworn, tes­
tified as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Would you state your name, please.
A 0. 0. Allsbrook.
Q You are presently mayor of the City of 

Wilmington?
A 'Boat's correct.
Q Mr. Allsbrook, are you also a member of the 

Board of Managers of the James Walker Memorial Hospital?
A Yes, sir.
Q And how long have you been a member of the

Board ?
A About eight years.
Q You were serving as a member, were you not,

when the Board considered the application of Dr. Eaton 
for staff privileges?

A I believe the Board takes their recommendation
from the staff of the hospital.

Q You were a member of the Board at that time?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall that the Board considered Dr.



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Eaton's application on two occasions, once in December 
1964, and again in February 1965?

A I believe that the Board follows the 
recommendation of the medical staff.

Q That is, in considering an application?
A That is correct.
Q Isn't it a fact, though, Mr. Allsbrook, 

that the Board considered Dr. Eaton's application on 
two occasions, first in December of 1964 and again in 
February 1965?

A I don't believe the Board did. I think it 
was probably turned back to the staff for review, if 
my memory serves me right.

Q Mr. Allsbrook, is it true that the Board, 
after receiving the recommendation of the medical staff, 
makes no effort to determine why the medical staff has 
adopted the particular recommendation?

A That, I don't know.
Q Is it a fact that the Board here made no 

investigation to determine why the staff recommended 
that Dr. Eaton not be admitted?

A I don't believe that that is the Board's 
responsibility because, as I understand, historically 
the staff does either reject or approve; and I know 
of no occasion when the Board of Managers has not upheld



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the staff.
Q Is it true that here the Board did not in­

vestigate to determine why the staff recommended that 
Dr. Eaton's application be denied?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q No steps at all were taken?
A Not to my knowledge, no.
Q The Board did not know, therefore, why the 

staff recommended that his application be denied?
A I don't think so.
q  Mr. Allsbrook, would you state what specific 

steps have been taken by the Board to comply with the 
District Court's order of August 1964, ordering that 
the Board cease discriminating against Negro physicians 
for staff privileges?

A I believe that the Board of Managers has 
fulfilled all of the civil rights actions; as far as 
I have been able to learn, that is correct. I know of 
no discrimination as far as the Board of Managers is 
concerned.

Q Mr. Allsbrook, it has been stipulated that 
the Board of Managers adopted a resolution on June 22nd 
regarding patients and physicians, and that the Board 
has not changed the by-laws in any way since the order



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of the court of August 1964. There have been no other 
steps by the Board to terminate or to require that race 

not be considered In staff privileges?
A I don't know.
Q You don't know of any other steps?
A (No answer.)
Q Mr. Allsbrook, since the medical staff does

either recommend or not recommend a particular applicant, 
and since the Board made no inquiry to determine *fhy 
the staff acted as it did or adopted the particular 
recommendation, the Board is not sure, is it, that Dr. 
Eaton has been denied staff privileges because of his 
race?

A My personal belief is that he was not denied 
on account of his race.

Q No particular inquiry was made to determine 
that that was the case, though; is that a fact?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q And it might have been, therefore, that the 

staff rejected Dr. Eaton because of his race?
A I couldn't answer that.
Q Or because he was opposed to the bond issue?
A I never heard of that.
q Or because he was active in civil rights 

activities?



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A I have not heard of that either.
Q Tne point, Mr. Allsbrook, is that he could 

have been rejected for any reason by the staff, any 
subjective reason?

A That, I wouldn't know either.
Q Mr. Allsbrook, under the present procedure 

at least with respect to Dr. Eaton's application, the 
Board cannot be sure that it has carried out the 
mandates of the court - that is, to cease discriminating 
against applicants for staff privileges?

A Well, I believe that the Board of Managers 
has, to the letter, followed the recommendations of 
the staff.

Q If the staff has acted because of race, the 
Board doesn’t know about it, does it?

A No, air.
Q And it has accepted the recommendation of the 

staff without any question at all?
A That is correct.
Q Mr. Allsbrook, do you think a staff applicant 

should be denied staff privileges without any inquiry 
being made by the Eoard of Managers as to why he was 
denied these privileges?

A I would think, since that has been the pro­
cedure over the years, that the Board should not over-step



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to make any personal inquiry as to anyone.
Q Should it attempt to make sure that the 

staff has not acted in violation of the order of the 
court?

A I have no comment on that, sir,
Q Do you know of any present steps to change

this secret ballot procedure of the staff?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q Do you think it should be changed?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Allsbrook, do you know of any reason now 

why Dr. Eaton should not be admitted to the staff?
A Well, I am not a qualified medical man, and 

I couldn't---
Q Do you know of any moral reasons why he 

shouldn't be admitted to the staff?
A Personally, none.
Q Mr. Allsbrook, what do you consider the 

function of the credentials committee is?
A I must say that I have no knowledge of what 

their responsibilities are except, as I understand it, 
they make their recommendations to the staff.

Q Don't they determine whether an applicant is 
qualified or not for staff privileges?

A I assume that is what they are supposed to do,



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yes, sir.
Q And didn't they report favorably on Dr.

Eaton's application?
A I do not know.
Q Assuming that they did report favorably,

Mr. Allsbrook, do you know of any reason why Dr. Eaton 
should not be admitted to the staff?

A In my position as a layman, I wouldn't know,
Q I'm saying, Mr. Allsbrook, that if the 

credentials committee has passed favorably on Dr.
Eaton's application in determining that he was medically 
qualified for staff privileges, and you knowing of no 
moral reasons why he shouldn't be admitted, do you 
know why now he shouldn't be admitted to the staff or 
any reasons why he shouldn't be admitted?

A Well, there, again, I believe you've got the 
medical staff between the credentials committee and 
the Board of Managers; and that, I'm not in a position 
to answer.

q  Isn't It a fact, Mr. Allsbrook, that the 
Board of Managers can either accept or reject the 
recommendations of the staff?

A I think that is correct, yes, sir.
Q And if the staff has acted in violation of 

the court order or in violation of Dr. Eaton's rights



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here, would you recommend that the Board reject these 
staff recommendations?

MR. HOGUE: I object to that question.
BY MR. CHAMBERS:

Q you may go ahead and answer it, Mr. Alls-
brook.

MR. HOGUE: I don’t think It could be
answered.

MR. CHAMBERS: Certainly it could be
answered.

A No, It's pretty hard for me to answer, and 
I prefer not to.

Q My question simply, Mr. Allsbrook, is that 
if the staff has acted in violation of Dr. Eaton's 
rights, don’t you think the Board should now correct 
that violation?

A Well, I believe if the Board of Managers 
actually know that to be the case, perhaps so.

q  I«m saying that if the Board of Managers know 
that this is the case, shouldn't they now correct that 
violation and recommend that the staff recommendation not 
be accepted?

A I can only speak for myself.
Q Speaking personally then, what would be your 

feeling?



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A Well, I would think that If it was in direct 
violation, that it should be corrected.

MR. CHAMBERS: Your witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Mr. Allsbrook, you have no indication that 

the staff rejected Dr. Eaton by reason of his race, do 
you?

A None.
MR. HOGUE: That's the only question I

want to ask.

REDIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Just one question, Mr, Allsbrook. You don't 

know that the staff did reject his application because 
of race, do you?

A No. Knowing some of the staff members, I can't 
think that it was done for that reason.

Q But you don't know? But you don't know that 
as a fact?

A No, I don't.



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Q And twenty per cent of the doctors voting, 
can have an applicant rejected; is that correct?

A I don't know.
Q Isn't it a fact that in order to be favorably 

reported to the Board of Managers, the applicant must 
receive 80 per cent or more of the votes of the staff?

A I do not know.
Q If that Is the case, then a very small 

percentage of the doctors can recommend or have the 
staff recommend unfavorably on an applicant?

A That, I don't know.
MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions.

P A N  P E N T 0 N, having been duly sworn, testified as 
follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Would you state your name, please.
A Dan Penton.
Q Mr. Penton, are you presently a member of 

the Board of Managers of the James Walker Memorial



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Hospital?
A I am.
Q How long have you been a member of the Board?
A Approximately 25 years.
Q Were you serving on the Board at the time 

the Board considered the application of Dr. Eaton for 
staff privileges?

A I wa3.
Q Y/ere you serving on the Board at the time 

the Board considered the application of Dr. Eaton in
December 1964?

A I was.
Q And against in February of 1965?
A I was.
Q Do you recall what recommendations were made

by the Board in December of 1964?
A I do not.
Q Do you recall why the application was back 

before the Board in February of 1965?
A Only that it was a seoond application.
Q Mr. Penton, what is your understanding of 

the procedure followed by the Board in considering applica­
tions for staff privileges?

A We have in my opinion an excellent staff and 
have always had an excellent staff at James Walker Memorial



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Hospital. And it is ray understanding that since that 
hospital was organized, our Board of Managers have 
relied largely upon its medical staff for their 
recommendations in regard to all applicants. And, after 
all, we are laymen, we know nothing about the medical 
profession whatever, and we have to rely upon their 
recommendations as to a man's qualifications and 
character,

Q Is it a fact, Mr, Penton, that prior to 
August of 1964, the Board of Managers followed a policy of 
not admitting Negroes for staff privileges?

A No, sir, not to my knowledge.
Q Was it ever a policy of the Board not to 

admit Negroes for staff privileges?
A No, sir. Nothing in our constitution or 

by-laws, to my knowledge, regarding the matter.
Q Didn't you in fact, Mr. Penton, follow the 

procedure of excluding Negroes from staff privileges?
A I have no reason whatsoever to think that

we did.
Q Isn't it true that the court in August of 

1964 found that you did and ordered that you cease doing 
it’

A I do not know.
Q Are you familiar with the court order of



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August 1964 In this case?
A I am not.
Q If you were advised that the court found In 

August of 1964 that you did follow such a procedure, 
would your recollection be helped in any way?

A No, sir.
MR. HOOUEs May I interject a comment 

here? I feel that this line of questioning 
of this witness is not particularly fair, be­
cause prior to the order in August of 1964 
and prior to the second case, the hospital had 
been adjudicated to be a private hospital; 
and the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals and 
the Supreme Court had stated that we could deny 
on the basis of race. Wie second court order 
overruled the first decision. And the 
stature of the case, all along, on the plead­
ings was that we had a right to deny anybody 
for any reason, race included, being a private 
hospital.

In the order which is dated in August of 
1964, we were ordered to reconsider these 
applications and not to bar them from the 
hospital by reason of race. And it is our 
position that we did this.



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MR. CHAMBERS: My only point here, Mr.
Hogue, is to establish that the Board followed 
such a policy prior to August of 1964 of ex­
cluding Negro physicians because of race. And 
if you will stipulate that, we will go 
along.

MR. HOGUE: I'm not going to stipulate
it, because this resolution was passed in June 
of 1964 - before the court order - in which 
we adopted the policy of not denying by reason 
of race.

MR. CHAMBERS: Are you willing to stipu­
late that prior to June 22, 1964, that you 
followed such a policy?

MR. HOGUE: I will stipulate that prior
to the second Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals' 
decision we followed such a policy. Uiat was 
admitted in the pleadings in those cases.

MR. CHAMBERS: That the Board followed
the policy of excluding Negro physicians be­
cause of race?

MR. HOGUE: We had no Negro physicians on
our staff. Now, I don't say that they would 
not have let one, in the proper case, but there 
were none on there, I will stipulate that.



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I won't stipulate that they were denied 
by reason of race, but I will stipulate that 
there were none on there.

MR. CHAMBERS: The only thing that I was
trying to get is that you had an all-white 
policy. Now, maybe you had no applications 
turned down prior to that time. Ihe fact that 
I was trying to establish was that you had an 
all-white policy prior to that time.

MR. HOGUE: I am not going to stipulate
that, because I think the record pretty much 
speaks for itself.

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Penton, are you able to state whether you 

had an all-white policy in your by-laws prior to the 
second Fourth Court of Appeals opinion?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q It is true, though, that prior to the applica­

tions of the four Negro physicians in 1964, you had no
Negro physicians on the staff?

A Yes.
Q Is It also true, Mr. Penton, that the New 

Hanover County Medical Society had an all-white policy - 
that is, that it wouldn't admit Negro physicians?

A I know nothing about the New Hanover County



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Medical Society
Q

society?
You don't know anything about the medical

A No.
Q And you don't know whether they had an

all-white policy?
A No, sir. I'm not a physician.

Q Mr. Penton, do you know whether the Board
took any steps to insure that the staff was not refusing 
to recommend Dr, Eaton because of his race?

A No, sir.
Q No steps were taken by the Board to determine

that this was not the case?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q The Board in this instance relied entirely

on the recommendation of the staff# is that correct?
A Yes, sir, as it always has.

Q If in this instance the staff refused to
recommend Dr. Eaton because of his race, the Board would 
not know this, not having made an investigation to de­
termine what the situation was; i3 that correct?

A I don't see how it could.

Q I didn't get your answer.
A No, sir.
Q The staff might have refused to recommend Dr.



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A I cannot answer that, sir. 
q  You would not know whether it did or not?
A I am not a member of the staff] I do not

know.
Q It might have refused to recommend Dr. Eaton 

because he was opposed to a recent bond issue, is that 
correct?

A I have no way of knowing, sir.
Q It might have been because he has been active 

in civil rights activities?
A I have no way of knowing why the staff turned 

him down, sir.
Q Would you consider these valid reasons to 

reject an applicant?
A No, sir.

MR. HOGUE: What reasons were these?
MR. CHAMBERS: The reasons that I Just

stated - that is, civil rights activities, 
opposed to a bond issue, his race, etc.

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q These are not, you say, valid reasons for 

refusing an applicant staff privileges?
A That is a personal opinion, sir.
Q And it is your personal opinion that it is not

Eaton because of his race, then?



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a valid reason?
A Right, sir.
Q Mr. Penton, do you think the Board would have 

followed the court’s order if the staff has refused to 
recommend Dr, Eaton because of these reasons and the 
Board has accepted its recommendations?

A I cannot answer that. The Board will have 
to decide that after a court order.

Q Do you feel the Board should make some 
inquiry to determine that this was not the case?

A I do not.
Q Do you think that the staff should be able to 

refuse to recommend an applicant and the Board accept 
that regardless of the reasons why the staff has taken 
its position?

A I do.
Q Even if it happens to act because of the 

race of the applicant?
A I think the Board should always follow the 

recommendations of its staff.
Q Even if the staff acts on the basis of the 

race of the applicant?
A My answer is the same, sir.
Q And you have stated, have you not, that the 

staff might have here, although you have no way of knowing,



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A I did not say that the staff might have. I 
told you I did not know.

Q It might have acted on that basis?
A I told you I did not know, I have no way of 

knowing.
Q And you don't feel that the Board should 

make any investigation to determine why the staff
acted as it did?

A I do not.
Q My question, then, Mr. Penton, is do you 

think you have carried out the order of the court which 
enjoined you from considering the race, etc., of the 
applicant?

A It is my opinion that the applicant was 
considered on his merit with no regard as to race in 
any manner.

Q You do not know that, though?
A That is my belief.
Q You have not made any Investigation to de­

termine that that is a fact?
A No, sir.
Q Do you feel that the. staff should be able to 

act secretively without giving any reason for its action?

acted because of his race?



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A I do.
Q Even if It acts on the basis of race or any 

other subjective reason?
A I think for any reason.
Q Do you feel, Mr. Penton, that an applicant 

should be turned down for subjective reasons?
A For what ?
Q Subjective reasons.
A Explain yourself.
Q Because of race.
A No, sir.
Q Because of racial activities?
A No, sir.
Q Because of political activity?
A I think we should follow the law. And I 

think we are all firmly aware of the law as it stands 
today, and I think the law in all cases should be 
obeyed.

Q Do you feel that the procedure you have 
followed here has enabled you to follow the law?

A I do.
Q Wiere might have been some violations of Dr. 

Eaton’s rights, however, is that correct?
A I cannot agree with you.
Q You have no way of knowing?



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A No, I have no way of knowing except my own 
personal belief.

Q 13 it your understanding, Mr. Penton, that 
the Board can either accept or reject the recommendation 
of the staff?

A Yes, sir. But we never have.
Q What is your understanding of the function 

or purpose of the credentials committee?
A To make recommendations as to a physician's 

qualifications.
Q It determines that a physician is or is not 

qualified for the particular privilege he is requesting?
A Qualified as to his medical profession.
Q Do you know of your own knowledge that the 

credentials committee here reported favorably on the 
application of Dr. Eaton?

A I do not.
Q Assuming that it did, do you know of any 

reason why you should not follow the recommendation of 
the credentials committee?

A We followed the recommendations of the staff.
Q If the credentials committee reported favorably, 

do you know of any reason why you should not follow the 
recommendation of the credentials committee?

A Yes, sir. Because we follow the recommendations



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of our staff.
Q If the staff here has acted because of the 

race of Dr, Eaton or because of his civil rights 
activity, do you feel personally that you should accept 
or reject the recommendation of the staff?

A I feel that we would have to face that and 
make that decision at the time that we knew that for a 
fact,

q  And you don't think that you should find out 
if that is the case?

A I do not,
Q Assuming that that is the case, do you feel 

that the Board should reject or accept the recommendation 
of the staff?

A I do not feel that I can assume things,
Q If that is the case, would you recommend that 

the staff's recommendation be accepted or rejected?
A I have no reason to believe that is the

ca3e.
Q Mr. Penton, do you approve of the secret 

balloting procedure of the staff?
A I think that is their privilege.
q  You don't think that the Board has any 

responsibility in checking to see whether the staff violates 
the rights of the applicant?



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A I do not.
Q Do you know of Dr. Eaton's involvement in 

civil rights activities here in Wilmington?
A I know very little about Dr. Eaton myself, 

personally.
Q Do you know that he is a plaintiff in a suit 

here to desegregate the public schools?
A No, sir.
q  Did you know of Dr. Eaton's position on the 

bond issue for the construction of the new hospital?
A I know at one time he opposed it.
Q Would you consider his opposition to the

bond issue a valid reason for denying him staff 
privileges?

A I had very good personal friends that opposed 
the bond issue.

Q Would your answer be yes or no, then, that 
this would or would not be a valid reason for denying 
him staff privileges?

A I do not think that would affect the Board's 
decision in any manner.

Q You don't think it should affect the Board's 
decision?

A I do not.
Q Do you think it should affect the staff's



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decision?
A I have no reason to say what the staff should 

do as long as they comply with our rules and regulations,
Q If this were the reason for the rejection 

of Dr. Eaton’s application, do you feel that that would 
be a valid reason for denying him staff privileges?

A No, sir.
Q Mr. Penton, under your present procedure,

the staff can really pick the Negro physician that it 
would accept on the 3taffj is that correct?

A They can pick all, white or colored.
Q They can pick anybody they want?
A Yes, sir.
Q And turn anybody down they want?
A Yes, 3ir.
Q For any reason they want to?
A Yes, sir.
Q And they followed that same procedure with 

Dr. Eaton's application?
A And it has been done not only with his, but 

it has been done with others, white included, in the 
past.

Q And they could accept or reject it for any 
reason they want to?

A Yes, sir.



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Q Specifically Dr. Eaton*s application? 
A Any.

MR. CHAMBERS* I have no further 
questions.

MR. HOGUE* I have no questions.

R A Y M O N D  H. H O L L A N D ,  having been duly sworn, 
testified as follows*

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS;
Q State your name, please.
A My name is Raymond Hardy Holland.
Q Mr. Holland, are you a member of the Board of 

Managers of the James Walker Memorial Hospital?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q How long have you been a member of that

Board ?
A Something a little over twenty-five years. I 

think between twenty-five and twenty-seven years.
q  Were you serving as a member of that Board 

when the Board considered the application of Dr. Eaton



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for staff privileges?
A Yes, I was.
Q Were you present when the Board considered 

his application in December of 1964 ?
A Yes, I was.
Q Do you recall what was done at that time?
A My recollection is that we had a recommendation

from the medical staff that the application be denied, 
and the Board did at that time deny the application.
That is Just my recollection.

Q Isn't it true that the Board also requested 
that the staff reconsider Dr. Eaton's application?

A No, I think they asked the staff to review 
it, not to reconsider it but to review it,

Q Did you, Mr. Holland, attempt to get some 
reasons for the staff's recommendation at that time?

A Not to my knowledge. We asked them to review 
it, but I don't recall asking for any reasons.

Q Did you at any time, Mr. Holland, attempt to 
get some idea or reasons for the staff's action?

A As a member of the Board?
Q Yes, as a member of the Board, and the Board

itself.
A No.
Q You accepted the staff's recommendation without



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any investigation at all?
A We accepted the staff's recommendation to 

deny the application for staff privileges, yes.
q  Is that true for the Board'3 consideration in 

December of 1964 and again in February of 1965?
A To the best of my recollection, yes.
q  In other words, Mr. Holland, you have not 

sought at any time to determine why the staff recommended 
that Dr. Eaton not be admitted to the staff?

A That is right.
ft Mr. Holland, if the staff refused to 

recommend Dr. Eaton for staff privileges because of his 
race, do you feel the Board should have accepted the 
staff's recommendation?

A I do not think so.
q  Would the same thing follow if the staff

refused to recommend Dr. Eaton because he had opposed 
the bond issue for construction of a new hospital?

A Yes, I would apply that.
ft Do you feel, Mr, Holland, that the Board should 

make some investigation to determine whether the staff 
was refusing to recommend the applicant because of his 
race?

A No, I don't.
ft If the staff acts because of race, you don't



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feel that you should try to find out and vote accordingly?
A Yes, I think we should. Whether I should 

tell you - I personally had talked to physicians voting 
against him, and they told me it was not due to the 
race.

Q This was not an official action by the Board, 
is that correct?

A That is right.
q  Mr. Holland, are you saying that you feel that 

the Board should make an investigation to determine why 
the staff votes as it does?

A As a Board member, their recommendation to me 
was sufficient grounds for me to vote to deny him 
membership on the staff.

q  Did it enable you to determine whether you were 
acting pursuant to the court order or in violation of 
the court order?

A I think I voted according to the court order.
I do not think I violated the court order when I voted 
against Dr. Eaton.

Q You accepted the staff's recommendation without 
knowing why the staff voted as it did, is that correct?

A That's right.
Q And it might have acted in violation of the 

court order, that is, the staff; is that correct?



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MR. HOGUE: I object to what it "might
have."

A I wouldn't say that was right. That's your 
interpretation and not mine.

Q You cannot be sure that it did not, is that 
correct?

A Oh, no, I wouldn't make an affidavit that it 
was not.

Q Are you aware of Dr. Eaton's involvement in 
civil rights activities here in the community?

A To the extent that I have read it in the 
papers and heard it. Not actively* I have never discussed 
it with Dr. Eaton.

Q Do you know that he is a plaintiff in a suit 
pending here for desegregation of the public schools?

A Frankly, I did not.
Q Did you know that he was opposed to the 

recently passed bond issue for construction of a hospital?
A I am not sure. I know that he was opposed to 

their original bond issue that failed to pass. I do not 
know about this one.

Q You know that he is a plaintiff in this suit 
pending here’’

A I know that, yes, sir.
q Would you consider as a valid reason to deny



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Dr. Eaton's application the fact that he was opposed to
the bond issue or was involved In civil rights
activity?

A Mot at all.
Q If the staff had acted on this basis in 

refusing to recommend Dr. Eaton, would you recommend, 
as a Board member, that the Board not follow the staff's 
recommendation?

A I can't answer that. It would depend on the 
circumstances. If it comes up, I would have to then 
decide how I would vote, but I wouldn't be able to 
answer that now.

Q Do you think the Board should make some in­
vestigation to determine whether that was the case - 
that is, that the staff refused to recommend Dr. Eaton 
because he was opposed to the bond issue or was involved
in civil rights activity?

A I'm not in a position to give my opinion on
that now.

Q i'm asking, Mr. Holland, if whether the Board 
should attempt to find out whether the staff acted the 
way it did because of Dr. Eaton's involvement in these 
matters?

A I have no definite opinion on that at this
time



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Q You don't think it should?
A I say I have no definite opinion on that at 

this time. It's a little hypothetical question I 
think.

Q That*s not hypothetical, Mr. Holland.
You stated initially that you felt that if 

the staff recommended that Dr. Eaton not be admitted 
because he was opposed to the bond issue that this would 
be an invalid reason.

A I said I thought it would.
Q And that it would be an invalid reason if 

the staff acted because of Dr. Eaton's involvement in 
civil rights activity.

A X said I did not think that would be a valid 
reason.

0 My question, then, is should the Board make 
an investigation to determine that the staff did not 
act because of these matters?

A You are asking me did it?
Q Should it.
A To my knowledge, no.
Q Should the Board make an investigation to 

determine that thi3 was not the case?
MR. HOGUE: We object to that. That is

pure argument.



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MR. HOGUE: Argumentative, a conclusion.
The witness has stated he had no opinion on 
it.

Now, with that in there you can answer the 
question, if you can.

THE WITNESS: My answer was that I do not
have any opinion on that at this time.
BY MR. CHAMBERS:

Q Mr. Holland, what is your understanding of 
the function of the credentials committee?

A Vaguely, I think the credentials committee is 
to pass on the medical qualifications of an applicant 
only. That's Just my personal opinion.

Q It decides whether the applicant satisfies 
the medical requirements for staff privileges?

A That Is right.
Q What purpose does the staff serve after the 

credentials committee has recommended or not recommended 
favorable action by the staff?

A Well, they would assemble; I imagine they 
would discuss it; they would vote on whether they would 
recommend to the Board whether he should be accepted for 
courtesy privileges, or recommend against it. As to the 
mechanics of it, I am not aware.

A I can't answer that.



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q  You don't know of any written standards or 
criteria to govern their conduct - that is, the staff's 
conduct?

A No, sir.
Q Do you know of any reason why Dr* Eaton 

should not be admitted to the staff?
A I can't answer that.
Q Mr. Holland, you stated earlier that you 

personally talked with some physicians who told you 
they didn't vote against Dr. Eaton because of his race?

A That is right.
Q What physicians were those?
A Beg your pardon?
Q Who were they?
A It was not official; it was a personal conversa

tion, and I would not divulge it.
Q Did they give you any reason for their vote 

against Dr. Eaton?
A Yes.
q  Did you stop to ask them why they voted as they

did?
A I did discuss it personally and in confidence 

with several.
q  Did they come to see you, or you went to see

them?



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both.
Q Were you at your office or at the hospital?
A I don't have an office.
Q Were you at the hospital when you discussed

it?
A On some occasions, yes.
Q Did you consider it your duty to go around and

ask the physicians why they voted as they did?
A Not necessarily my duty. Possibly curiosity.
Q You don't think the Board should have this

same curiosity?
A That, I don't know.

MR. CHAMBERSi Your witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Mr. Holland, isn't it true that three Negro 

physicians have been taken on the courtesy staff of the 
hospital since August 1964?

A Yes.
MR. HOGUE: I have no further questions.

A I can't be sure. Possibly both, some of



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REDIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Mr. Holland, under the procedure followed by 

the hospital, the staff could pick whatever Negro 
physicians they wanted to for staff privileges, couldn't 
they?

MR. HOGUE: Objection.
A I don't know.
Q You have no way of determining why they act as 

they do? They might have a grudge against Dr. Eaton and 
reject him because of that? Is that correct?

A Could be.
Q They might not like his active involvement in

civil rights activities, is that correct?
A Could be.
Q You have no way of checking; the staff has 

the absolute discretion in picking the Negro physicians 
they want to for staff privileges; is that correct?

A To the best of my recollection, we did not
check.

Q Do you know of any steps now to change the 
secret balloting procedure of the staff?

A It has possibly been discussed, but I know of 
no action that has been taken or no recommendation that has



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been made.
Q I understand It is your personal opinion that 

it should be changed, is that correct?
A No, that is not correct.
Q You would recommend the continuation of this 

policy?
A You mean the secret ballot? Yes, sir, I am in 

favor of it.
q  Even though it gives this absolute discretion 

to the staff?
A I won't answer that. I'll merely say that I'm 

in favor of the secret ballot by the staff.
Q Mr. Holland, I'm not sure whether I asked you 

this, but I will ask once more to be certain: Do you
know of any reason why Dr. Eaton should not now be 
admitted to the staff?

A I told you I couldn't answer that. You asked 
me, I think.

Q You don't know of any reason right now, is that 
correct?

A I said I would not answer that.
MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions. Thank

you, Mr. Holland



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p r . J O S E P H  C. K N O X , having been duly sworn,
testified as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q State your name, please.
A Dr. Joseph C. Knox.
Q Are you a practicing physician?
A Yes.
Q With a specialty?
A Yes.
Q What specialty is that?
A Pediatrics.
Q Dr. Knox, are you presently a member of the Boarc 

of Managers of the James Walker Memorial Hospital?
A Yes.
Q How long have you been a member of that Board?
A Two years September 30th.
Q Were you serving on the Board at the time it 

considered the application of Dr. Eaton for staff 
privileges?

A Yes.
Q Would you state what happened at the Board 

meeting on the first consideration of Dr. Eaton's



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application in December of 1964?
A I couldn't answer that without some refresh­

ing. I don't recall.
0 Did the Board recommend that the staff again 

review or reconsider Dr. Eaton's application?
A I think that's true, yes.
Q The first report of the staff was an unfavorable 

one on Dr. Eaton's application, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And the Board requested that the staff again 

review or reconsider Dr. Eaton's application?
A Yes.
q  Do you know why the Board took this action?
A No, I don't know why.
Q Is it a general procedure?
A Not necessarily, no. It has been done before,

but it isn't necessarily a usual procedure.
Q The report of the staff at the February meet­

ing was also unfavorable, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And the Board recommended that Dr. Eaton not 

be admitted to the staff?
A I think that is the way; at least, that he 

was not admitted for that reason.
Q The Board Just accepted the staff's recommendati



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without any inquiry at all into the reasons for the 
staff’s action, is that correct?

A That’s correct as far as I know, yes.
Q Were any steps at any time made by the Board

to determine why the staff refused to recommend Dr. 
Eaton?

A No, not to my knowledge.
Q The staff might have been acting for purely 

subjective reasons, then?
A Well, why they vote like they do, that’s 

never questioned as I know of.
Q It might have been because of Dr. Eaton’s

race?
A I don’t know why.
Q It might have been because he was opposed to 

the bond issue for the hospital, is that correct?
A I don't know that. I don’t know why they

voted against him or for him for that matter.
Q It might have been because he was involved in 

civil rights activities?
A I don't know,
Q Do you think any of those three reasons would 

be valid reasons for rejecting Dr. Eaton's application?
A Personally, no.
Q Do you think it would be a valid reason to



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reject his application that he was opposed to the bond 
Issue and spoke out against it?

A No.
Q Or that he was involved in civil rights 

activities?
A No. That is his privilege. I wouldn't deny 

him that.
Q These are purely subjective reasons with no

valid basis at all, is that correct?
A I don't know, now, about the validity of it. 

I think you used a word there that I couldn't agree on 
there, no. I don't know what their reasons were, but 
I would not accuse them of using a non-valld reason.

Q No, I'm saying that these would be purely 
subjective reasons?

A Now, I don't know that they are subjective.
Q I thought you stated that it wouldn't be a 

valid reason to deny his application because he was 
opposed to the bond issue?

A That's true.
q  Or was involved in civil rights activity?
A Ihat's true.
Q And I say these would be subjective reasons

with no validity?
A Well, that may be true, yes.



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Q And if the staff acted because of these 
reasons, do you feel that the Board should follow the 
staff*s recommendations?

A Well, now, we don't know why the staff 
didn't approve it.

Q I say if the staff acted because of these 
reasons, that is, his racial activities or his opposition 
to the bond issue, do you feel the Board should follow 
the staff's recommendations?

A I think the Board should follow the staff's 
recommendaticxi on all applications or admissions to the 
hospital.

Q Even if it voted because of Dr. Eaton's
race?

A Even if it did, yes.
Q Or because he was opposed to the bond issue?
A Yes. Any of those.
Q Would be valid reasons for the Board's re­

jection? if
A I didn't say that. I say/they should reject 

i t . What I am saying there is that the Board has never 
yet overridden the staff in their recommendations.

q  You have authority to override the staff, 
don't you?

A They have the authority, yes.



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Q You can either reject or accept the staff's

re commendations ?
A Yes, that’s the privilege.
Q And if the 3taff acts on what you consider to 

be an invalid reason - because of Dr. Eaton’s race, 
let us say - you feel that the Board should still accept
the staff’s recommendation?

A Phrase that again, will you?
Q If the staff refuses to recommend Dr. Eaton 

because of his race, do you feel that the Board should 
follow the staff's recommendation?

A Yes.
q  Even if it acts because of his race?
A Yes, if they don't recommend them. I don't 

know why they don’t. But I know of no reason why we 
should not follow their recommendation.

Q Do you feel you would be carrying out the 
court's order if you accepted the staff's recommendation 
In that case?

A Not if that was true; but I don't think it's

true.
Q Well, if the Board---
A That's a hypothetical question. You're saying 

"If” those things and assuming they are true. And I go 
along and say "if” they were true, then such-and-such



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would be the instant case. But I don't know that those 
are true,

Q Do you mean that if this were true here - 
that is, if the staff refused to recommend Dr, Eaton 
because of his race, that the Board should either follow 
or not follow the staff? What are you saying?

A I'm saying that we follow the recommendations
of the staff.

Q Regardless of why it acts as it does?
A Yes. We don't know why,
Q Even if it might act because of race?
A Because of race? Well, it is the privilege

of those men to vote as they please, and so I would have 
no way of knowing that that is true.

Q Don't you feel, Dr. Knox, that the Board ought 
to make some inquiry to determine why the staff acts as 
it does?

A No.
q  You don't think it has to?
A No.
q  You don't think it should?
A No.
Q You think you should give absolute discretion 

to the staff to reject an applicant for any reason it 
wants to?



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A That's their privilege. That's the way it 
works, yes.

Q What steps did you take to comply with the 
court's order, ordering that you cease denying staff 
privileges because of race?

A Well, we've got colored, Negro physicians, 
on that staff. We haven't denied them for that, so 
we assume it is for some other reason.

Q You don't know whether Dr. Eaton was denied 
because of his race, do you?

A No, sir, I don't know that.
Q And if he were denied by the staff because 

of his race, you wouldn't have followed the court's 
order, would you?

A No, if that were true.
Q And you don't make any inquiry to determine 

whether that is the case, do you?
A Not as a Board of Trustees, no.
Q And you don't find out whether the staff 

refuses to recommend him because he was opposed to the 
bond issue, do you?

A No.
Q It's your opinion that you don't have to, is 

that correct?
A We did not.



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Q You did not?
A No. We take the recommendation of the staff, 

and we follow through on that.
Q Dr. Knox, do you know of any reason why Dr. 

Eaton shouldn*t be admitted to the staff now?
A Do I know, of my own knowledge?
Q Of your own knowledge.
A Personally, no.
Q You know of no reason at all why he should 

not be admitted to the staff?
A Well, I think the staff —  I consider the staff 

has an obligation and a privilege to upgrade, always, 
the caliber of that staff; and I think it is not only a 
duty, but an obligation.

Q Under your procedure, though, the staff could 
act to exclude a member for any reason it wanted to?

A That's true.
Q Whether it would be in the best interest or 

not of the hospital, is that correct?
A That's true. And it has been done.
Q It has been done?
A It has been done - both white and colored.
Q And it might have been done in Dr. Eaton's

case?
A I don't know. I don't know that



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q Are you familiar with Dr. Eaton’s Involvement 
in civil rights activity?

A Only by newspaper accounts.
q  Are you familiar with his involvement in this 

school desegregation suit?
A Except by newspaper.
Q Are you familiar with his position on the 

bond issue here in Wilmington?
A By newspaper accounts, yes.
Q Is it your understanding that he was 

opposed to the bond issue?
A I believe that’s true.
Q And several physicians on the staff at James 

Walker were in favor of the bond issue?
A Yes. And some were against it, too.
q  Including some of those who voted on Dr.

Eaton’s application?
A I'm sure.
Q And you know, of course, that Dr. Eaton is 

the plaintiff in this suit?
A Yes, I see that by the document that I re­

ceived.
Q Dr. Knox, do you know of any steps now to 

eliminate the secret balloting procedure followed by the 
staff?



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A No
Q Do you feel that this procedure gives the 

staff too much discretion in considering applicants for 
admission to the staff?

A Gives them what? Too much?
Q Discretion.
A No.
Q It does permit them to deny or accept a 

physician for any reason it wants to?
A Yes.

MR. CHAMBERS: Your witness.
MR. HOGUE: I have no questions.

R Y E  B. P A G E ,  having been duly sworn, testified as 
follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q State your name, please.
A Rye B. Page.
Q And your occupation?
A I am a newspaper publisher.



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Q Are you a member of the Board of Managers of 
the James Walker Memorial Hospital?

A 1 am.
q  How long have you been a member of that Board, 

Mr. Page?
A Six or seven years, maybe longer; I'm not

sure.
Q Were you a member of the Board at the time the 

Board considered the application of Dr, Eaton for staff 
privileges?

A I was.
Q Did you vote as a Board member on the occasion

the application was considered by the Board?
A No.
Q You did not vote?
A No.
Q Did you participate in the meeting?
A Yes.

MR. HOGUEt Excuse me a minute. He said 
he was present. But the minutes of the meeting 
of January 25th show that he was present at 
the time that it was referred back; but the 
minutes of February 15» when it was finally 
voted on by the Board, do not show that he was 
present.



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THE WITNESS: I was present at one of
the discussions that I did not vote in.

MR. HOGUE: You were present at the Janu­
ary meeting but not the February meeting. You 
did not vote because you were not present at 
the time.

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Do you recall the discussion of the Board at 

the meeting you did attend?
A Some of it.
Q Would you state what was discussed or said?
A That Dr. Eaton had made an application to the 

hospital; that it had been referred to the medical 
staff. That’s as much as I remember on it.

Q Do you recall what action was taken by the 
Board at the meeting you attended?

A I think no action was taken by the Board at 
the meeting that I attended.

Q Is it your understanding, Mr. Page, that the 
Board at its last meeting rejected the application of 
Dr. Eaton?

A I would have to look at the minutes to re­
fresh my memory on that.

Q Vfell, it is true, isn’t it, Mr. Page, that
Dr. Eaton isn’t on the staff at the present time?



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A
Do you understand the purpose of this proceed-
It is my understanding that he is not.

Q
ing here?

A Yes.
Q That it is an attempt by Dr. Eaton to gain 

staff privileges?
A Yes, I understand that.
Q Do you understand what Dr, Eaton has alleged 

in the pleadings?
A I have not read the pleadings,
Q Do you understand that he is contending that 

he was denied staff privileges because of race or other 
subjective reasons?

A I stated that I have not read the pleadings, 
so I understand nothing until I have read the pleadings.

Q You haven't had occasion to discuss this 
matter with members of the Board?

A I have not.
Q And you haven't attended a Board meeting in 

which this matter was discussed?
A I have heard it discussed at several Board 

meetings, or at the Board meeting that I attended. But, 
as I repeated to you, until I go over the minutes of 
the meeting, I am not sure what was discussed or vftiat 
my participation was in the discussion.



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Q Were the meetings you attended, to which you 
refer, subsequent to the denial of Dr. Eaton's applica­
tion?

A Yes, I think It was subsequent.
q  And at that time the Board had rejected Dr, 

Eaton* s application, Is that correct?
A Ihere again, I would have to refer to the 

minutes.
Q Did you discuss at that time the motion that 

was filed by Dr. Eaton to gain admission to the staff?
A I would still have to refer to the minutes 

before I can give you, without any records whatsoever, 
what was discussed or what was not discussed.

Q Is it your understanding, Mr. Page, that the 
Board acted in rejecting Dr. Eaton*s application, on 
the recommendation of the medical staff?

A My recollection is that the medical staff did 
not pass upon the application favorably, and that the 
Board, as it has done many times in the past, accepted 
the recommendations of the medical staff, and then took 
their action.

Q Since the staff refused to recommend Dr.
Eaton, the Board also refused to permit his admission 
to the staff; is that correct?

A Biis is ray understanding, based on past policy



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of many years.
Q Did the Board make any independent investiga­

tion to determine why the staff refused to recommend Dr. 
Eaton?

A This, I do not know.
Q Is it the practice to make an investigation?
A I do not think so. I*m not sure, but I do 

not know this.
Q You never know, then, why the staff refuses 

to recommend a particular applicant; Is that correct?
A It is my understanding that we do not know 

or do not ask for it.
Q Do you feel that the Board should make an 

investigation?
A Any feelings that I would have would be that 

of an invididual member and would have no bearing on 
what the Board did.

q  Well, as an individual member do you feel that 
the Board should Investigate to determine why the staff 
refuses to recommend an applicant?

A No, not on the first recommendation of the 
staff. I feel like if there has been some injustice 
committed, that it will go further than the staff, as 
it has in this case.

q  Are you saying that one would need to bring a



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lawsuit in order to get on the staff?
A Isn't that what the courts are for?
Q Do you feel that the Board has an obligation

in this matter?
A The Board has an obligation to run the hospital 

to the best of its means.
Q Is that also in the requirements of the law?
A I don't follow your question.
Q Does the 3oard have an obligation to run a 

hospital within the requirements of the law?
A Why, naturally it does.
Q With respect to staff admissions and every other 

aspect of the operation of the hospital?
A I would feel that the Board would have to run 

the hospital, as it has in the years past - to run it to 
the best of its ability. And one of the requirements has 
been that the staff act upon any application to the 
staff. And it would seem to me that If the staff did 
not recommend somebody, the Board would be in a poor 
position to try and overrule the staff on it; this I 
do not think would be good management.

Q Even if the staff refused to recommend someone 
because of race?

A I don't recall that race has anything to do with
this matter.



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Q If it does have anything to do with it, do you 
feel that it would be a valid basis for denying the 
application?

A I said I don't recall that it does. I think 
you are making an allegation that you are asking me to 
give an opinion on that doesn't have anything to do with 
it.

Q Wasn't it a policy prior to 1964 to exclude 
Negro physicians from the staff?

A I don't recall that it has ever been a written 
policy, or a policy.

Q You had no Negro physicians prior to that
time ?

A We might not have had any that were capable 
of applying.

Q You had a policy of not admitting them, did you
not?

A I don't recall any policy of that kind.
Q Are you familiar with the court's order of

1964?
A Yes, I ’m familiar with it.
Q Are you familiar with the provisions there or 

discussion in the opinion dealing with the racial problems 
of the hospital?

A Not completely on that, no.



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Q You do not know whether the staff refused to 
recommend Dr. Eaton because of his race, do you?

A As I told you before, I think race has nothing 
to do with this matter.

Q You do not know that it did not have anything 
to do with it, do you?

A No. But I don't think that it does, as I, 
personally, feel it has nothing to do with it.

Q You made no investigation to find out whether 
it had anything to do with it, did you?

A I have no reason to believe that it had some­
thing to do with it. So why should I make an investigation 
of it?

Q “Rie Board made no investigation of it, did it?
A I don't know whether the Board did or not.
Q Would you consider race a valid reason for 

denying an applicant staff privileges?
A To go right back, I don't think race has any­

thing to do with this. So why should I make a comment 
on it?

Q Do you feel that race should be a valid reason 
for denying an applicant staff privileges?

A No.
Q Do you feel that one's opposition to a bond 

issue for construction of a hospital would be a valid



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reason?
A Are you asking me for a personal opinion about

this?
Q Yes.
A I wouldn't see how a man that had fought so hard 

against something could give his be3t services to the 
group that he had fought against.

Q And you feel that that would be a valid reason 
for denying him staff privileges?

A I think it would have something to do with it,
yes.

Q Do you feel that one's involvement in civil
rights activity would be a sufficient reason for denying
one's admission to the staff?

A I don't follow your question.
Q If Dr. Eaton has been active in civil rights

activity, do you feel that that would be a valid basis
for denying him staff privileges at the James Walker 
Memorial Hospital?

A No.
Q If the staff acted on the basis that he had 

been involved in civil rights activity, do you feel that 
the Board has followed the court's order of August 1964 
in denying his application?

A Not knowing why the staff didn't recommend Dr.



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Eaton, I couldn’t answer that question.
Q Don't you feel that the Board should make an 

investigation to determine whether the staff acted be­
cause of this?

A I think if the Board felt that they should make 
an investigation, they would make an investigation.

Q Don't you feel that you should make an inves­
tigation?

A Not in this case, no.
Q You don't feel that you have any duty at all 

to Dr. Eaton in this regard?
A I feel that our duty is to the hospital.
Q And not to a private physician?
A I don't see that our concern is with the

private physician. He makes his application according 
to the policies that have been of long-standing} and if 
the Board sees fit to turn it down, then I don't see 
that the Board of Managers should overrule them.

Q You mean that if the staff sees fit to turn it
down?

A That's correct.
q Even if the staff 3ees fit to turn it down be­

cause of race?
A I don't know why they turned it down, and I 

told you that I don't feel it was because of race.



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q I'm asking, though, If it were because of race, 
do you feel that this would be a valid reason for the 
Board now turning down his application?

A If that were the only thing, yes.
Q That it would be or would not be a valid reason

for turning down his application?
A If race were the only question involved, I 

think it would not be a valid reason for turning him 
down. But I feel that there must be other reasons that 
he was turned down, because I have stated that I don't 
think race has anything to do with it.

Q But you don't feel that the Board should make 
an investigation to determine whether it was the only 
reason, is that correct?

A Not at this point, no.
Q And you don't know whether it was the only 

reason, is that correct?
A I don't know the reasons for the staff, be­

cause I haven't talked with the staff.
Q Do you know of any steps taken by the Board to 

comply with the court's order of 1964?
A Yea.
Q What were they?
A Upon the application of Dr. Wheeler and Dr. 

Gray, was it? That they were admitted to the staff.



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Q The discretion you allow the staff permits it 
to accept or reject any Negro it wants to?

A I don’t think whether he is a Negro or a
Chinaman or what he is has anything to do with this.

q  Tt\e staff has absolute discretion in this
area?

A They have to work with these other doctors, 
so they should have discretion in this area.

Q So they can reject or accept a man for any 
reason they want to, is that correct?

A That's correct.
Q Race included?
A Naturally race has to be included, because a 

man is either of one race or another, so that it has to 
be stated in there of what race he is on his application.

Q And also one's opposition to a bond issue 
could have been a factor here?

A Whether he shaved on the left side of his 
face before he shaved on the right side of his face could 
also be in there, the way you are making allegations.

Q My point is that the staff has an absolute 
discretion here?

A I have already answered that.
Q And are you saying that that is true or not

true?



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A I thinlc that the staff has discretion to accept 
or reject anybody they please.

Q For any reason they want to?
A Based on their own reasons. rihis is a policy 

that has been going on for many years at James Walker.
Q And that was the policy followed here with 

respect to Dr. Eaton's application?
A As far as I know, that's true.
q  And the Board made no investigation to find out 

what it was, is that correct?
A I don't know whether they did or not.
Q Do you know of Dr. Eaton's Involvement in the 

civil rights activities here in Wilmington?
A I know some of it, yes.
Q Do you know that he has been a plaintiff in a

suit to desegregate the public schools?
A Yes, I am familiar with that.
q, And you know that he is a plaintiff in the 

present suit against the hospital?
A Yes.
q  Do you know of his opposition to the bond 

issue for construction of a new hospital?
A Yes.
Q He has been rather active in the overall civil 

rights movement here in Wilmington, is that correct?



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A He is an active person.
Q Of your own knowledge, do you know of any 

reason why Dr. Eaton should not now be admitted to the 
staff?

A No, not of my own knowledge, I do not.
Q Do you know of any steps now to change the

secret balloting procedure of the staff?
A I don't know what procedure that they use.
Q They follow a secret procedure, don't they, 

in casting their ballots?
A I'm not a member of the staff, so I can't tell 

you how they vote or how they do not vote.
Q Do they report to the Board why they vote as 

they do?
A Not that I know of.
Q Do they report to anybody why th$r vote as they

do?
A Not that I know of.
Q Are they privileged not to reveal how they 

voted and why they voted as they did?
A I believe that they are privileged.
Q What is your understanding of the function of 

the credentials committee?
A To investigate whether or not a doctor is 

professionally capable of holding a position on the



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staff.
Q, Is it your understanding that the credentials 

committee reported favorably on Dr, Eaton's application?
A That's my understanding,
Q Do you feel that that would be a sufficient 

reason for the Board to accept Dr, Eaton's application?
A I am afraid I don't follow your question,
Q Since the credentials committee has reported 

favorably on Dr, Eaton's application, don't you feel 
that this would be a sufficient reason for the Board to 
now accept Dr. Eaton's application?

A No, I do not, not Just based on the credentials
committee report.

Q Why not ?
A Well, in my own business I can find plenty of 

capable people that are capable of doing the work that 
might not be compatible with the other people that are 
doing this work. You have to take many things into con­
sideration before you allow people privileges to do 
things, whether you accept them in your employment or 
whether you give them the right to participate on the 
staff of this hospital. And I think that everything 
should be taken into consideration.

Q Even if one is objected to because of his race?
A I don't think race has anything to do with it.



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Q I'm saying that the staff would be permitted 
to exolude one from the hospital because they don't 
like his race,

A If that were the only reason, I don't think 
that that would be a valid consideration in this.

Q That is a possibility here, though, Isn't it?
A Anything is a possibility.
Q Is it your understanding, Mr. Knox, that the 

Board can either accept or reject the recommendation of 
the staff?

A As far as I know, thi3 is true.
Q It can accept it or it can reject it?
A That is my understanding.
Q And If the staff acts for invalid reasons, 

the Board can accept or reject it; is that correct?
A Ohat is my understanding.
Q if the staff in this Instance has acted on the 

basis of Dr. Eaton's race, the Board can refuse to follow 
the staff's recommendation?

A Yes.
MR. CHAMBERS: Your witness.
MR. HOGUE: I have no questions.



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L. A. R A N E Y , having been duly sworn, testified as
follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Will you state your name, please.
A L. A. Raney.
Q Mr, Raney, are you a member of the Board of 

Managers of the James Walker Memorial Hospital?
A Yes.
Q Hew long have you been a member of the Board?
A Fifteen years, I believe, fifteen or eighteen, 

somewhere along there; I don't know exactly.
Q Were you serving as a member at the time the 

Board considered the application of Dr. Eaton for staff 
privileges?

A What date was that?
Q In December of 1964 and in February of 1965.
A I don't remember, if I was a member of the

Board, whether I was present or not. Along about that 
time I had a heart attack, and I was not attending the 
meetings regularly, and I Just don't remember definitely. 
I do know that he made application.

Q You understand, also, that the Board has



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rejected his application?
A I think so, yes.
Q Is it your understanding that the Board in 

rejecting Dr. Eaton's application relied upon the 
recommendation of the staff, the medical staff?

A Yes.
Q And the recommendation of the medical staff was 

unfavorable ?
A I didn't quite understand your question.
Q The recommendation of the medical staff was 

that Dr# Eaton not be admitted to the staff?
A Yes.
q Did the Board make any investigation to de­

termine why the staff recommended that Dr. Eaton not be 
admitted?

A I'm not familiar with the details, because since 
that time, for the last year or more, I haven't been 
regularly in attendance, and I rely mainly upon the 
superintendent and the executive committee on that. If 
I was present, I voted according to what they recommended.

q Is it the normal procedure of the Board to 
accept the recommendation of the staff without any in­
vestigation?

A Yes.
Q Do you feel that the discretion allowed the



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staff in considering an applicant permits the staff to 
reject an applicant for any reason it sees fit?

A Well, I can't say for that, because I don't
know,

Q You don't normally make an investigation to de­
termine whether or what reasons the staff has used in 
rejecting an applicant, do you?

A No, I don't know what would be their —  

whether that would be -- I Just don't know.
Q Mr, Raney, don't you feel that a hospital is 

essential for a surgeon to carry on his profession?
A Well, that would be a matter for a doctor's 

decision and not for mine, X think,
Q As a layman, though, you can state that a 

surgeon wouldn't be able to practice medicine unless he 
had some type of hospital privileges, would he?

A Well, that would be a matter for the doctors 
to decide, I think. I don't think I would be capable 
of making a definite statement on that.

Q You don't know of any other place where a 
surgeon could practice surgery except in a hospital, do 
you?

A No.
Q Do you feel that a physician should be turned 

down or rejected for staff privileges for any reasons that



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the staff sees fit?
A Well, I think that would be a matter for the 

staff to determine and not for me.
Q Do you feel that the staff should be permitted 

to reject an applicant because of his race?
A No, I don't think that.
Q Because of political reasons?
A No.
Q If the staff did reject an applicant because of

his race, do you feel that the Board should follow the
staff's recommendations?

A Well, I don't know that they have done that;
I don't think so.

Q If the staff did, do you feel the Board should 
follow the staff's recommendations?

A Well, I can't anticipate what they would do, 
you know.

Q If the staff rejected an applicant because of
his political activities, do you feel that the Board 
should follow the staff's recommendations?

A Well, I think we have relied entirely upon the 
staff on admitting, and I would base my decision on 
what they recommended.

Q It is true, isn't it, that the staff might 
have rejected Dr. Eaton here because of his race?



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A I don't think so.
Q You have no way of knowing?
A No.
Q It might have rejected him because of his 

political views?
A I don't know about that.
Q You have made no investigation to determine why 

the staff voted as it did?
A No. I wouldn't venture to guess what they 

would do.
Q Do you know of Dr. Eaton's involvement in 

civil rights activities?
A No, I know very little about it.
Q You know that he is a plaintiff in the present 

suit against the hospital, don't you?
A Yes.
q Do you know of Dr. Eaton's position on the 

bond issue, the bonds for the construction of a new 
hospital?

A I didn't get that.
Q Do you know that Dr. Eaton opposed the bond 

issue for the construction of a new hospital?
A I don't know how he voted on it or whether he 

opposed it or not; I don't know.
Q Do you feel that it would be a valid reason to



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reject Dr, Eaton because he opposed that bond issue?
A No, I don't think so.
Q If the staff voted against Dr, Eaton because 

of that, do you feel that the Board should follow the 
staff's recommendation?

A Well, I can't tell what basis they based their 
opinion on. We followed their recommendation, and I 
don't know what —  I just couldn't answer that question.

Q If they did act on the basis of his opposition 
to the bond issue, do you feel the Board should follow 
the staff's recommendation?

A I don't know about that.
Q Mr. Raney, do you know of any reason why Dr. 

Eaton should not be admitted to the staff now?
A I don't know personally, no.
Q Is it your understanding that the credentials 

committee determines the medical qualifications of am 
applicant ?

A I think it's left with the committee of the 
doctors and not with the Board; we follow their in­
structions on that.

Q I'm talking about the credentials committee 
set up by the staff.

A I don't know who the committee is, and I don't
know what they would do.



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q  If the credentials committee voted favorably 
on Dr. Eaton's application, do you feel that this would 
be sufficient for the Board to accept Dr. Eaton's 
application?

A If they recommended it, I would vote for it.
Q Would that be true even if the staff later

voted against Dr. Eaton's application?
A I wouldn't vote for it.
Q If the credentials committee voted favorably 

and the staff voted unfavorably, what would be your 
position as a Board member?

A Well, we follow the policy of following the 
recommendation of the Board, and I would vote against it 
unless they recommended it.

Q Unless the staff recommended it?
A Yes.
Q Would that be true if the staff acted on the 

ba3is of Dr. Eaton's involvement in civil rights 
activity?

A Well, I would rely on that entirely.
q you wouldn't make any investigation to determine 

whether the staff relied or acted upon Dr, Eaton's 
Involvement in civil rights activity?

A No, I'm not opposed to it on that basis.
Q If the staff acted on that basis, would you



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recommend that the Board accept or reject the staff's
recommendation?

A I would vote for him in case the medical board 
recommended it. If they didn't recommend it or refused 
to recommend it, I would vote against it.

Q Even if the staff acted on the basis of Dr. 
Eaton's involvement in civil rights activity?

A Well, I think I have answered that; that's 
the same thing previous. I depend entirely upon their 
recommendation, and I would vote for whatever they would 
recommend, otherwise I would not vote for It.

Q And for whatever reason?
A And I wouldn't attempt to select any particular

thing for the reason.
Q And you wouldn't attempt to find out why the

staff voted as they did?
A Well, I would depend upon their decision.
Q Do you know of any present steps to change the 

secret balloting procedure of the staff?
A No, I know nothing about how they arrive at

it.
Q Do you feel it should be changed?
A I beg your pardon? I didn't understand you.
Q Do you feel the staff should report to the

Board why it voted as it did?



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A No, I don't think it's necessary.
Q Even if they might have acted on some unconstitu­

tional basis?
A Well, I don't know anything about that. I'm 

not going to try to debate that part of it.
Q You wouldn't care to find out?
A Well, I have stated ny vote in reference to 

accepting the applications upon the advice and recommenda­
tion of the medical staff's committee, and that’s what 
I would do.

MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions.
MR. HOGUE: I have no questions.

p r „ S A M U E L  E. W A R S H A U E R . having been duly 
sworn, testified a3 follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
q  Dr. Varshauer, I wish to apologize for the 

fact that I have to keep bringing you down here. I think 
this will be the last time.

Would you state your name for the record.



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A Samuel E. Warshauer.
Q Dr* Warshauer, are you presently a member of 

the Board of Managers of the James Walker Memorial Hos­
pital?

A Yes.
Q And you have been a member for how many years?
A Since October 1st 1963,
Q Dr. Warshauer, you attended the meetings of 

the Board at the time it considered the application of 
Dr. Eaton for staff privileges?

A Yes.
Q And the Board at no time, to your knowledge, 

made any investigation to determine why the staff 
recommended that Dr. Eaton not be accepted for staff 
privileges?

A The Board asked me to see if I could find out 
any reasons.

Q Was that at the time of the first consideration 
by the Board or the second consideration?

A 3*ie first.
Q Were you able to find out why the staff 

rejected Dr. Eaton's application?
A Not really.
Q The staff's recommendation might have been

based, then, on some purely subjective reasonj is that



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correct?
A I don't know the reasons for the various members' 

voting.
Q Do you feel, Dr. V.'arshauer, that the Board shew Id 

make an investigation to determine why the staff acts 
or votes as it doe3?

A I don't have any strong feelings in the 
matter.

Q If the staff rejects an applicant because of 
his race, do you feel the Board should try to find out 
if that is the case?

A I don't know of the staff rejecting anybody 
because of his race.

Q Do you feel the Board should investigate to 
find out if that were the case or is the case?

A I think it's the Board's duty to inform the 
staff that they are not to vote on applicants or reject 
applicants because of the applicant's race; and the 
Board told the staff and the adninistration that that 
would no longer be a consideration for membership on 
the staff.

Q Was there any follow-up by the Board to determine 
whether the staff followed the Board's recommendation or 
directive?

A I wouldn't know how the Board could do that.



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Q In this Instance the Board left the matter 
entirely to the discretion of the staff, is that correct?

A Uiat's the normal way for the Board to
handle applicants for staff membership, and it does it 
in every instance.

Q And it did on Dr. Eaton's application also?
A Yes.
Q Dr. Warshauer, if the staff acted here on the 

basis of Dr. Eaton's opposition to the bond issue, do 
you feel that this would be a valid reason for denying 
his admission to the staff?

A No.
Q If it acted on the basis of Dr. Eaton's 

involvement in civil rights activity, would you feel 
that this would be a valid reason?

A For what? Keeping him off?
Q Rejecting Dr. Eaton's application.
A No, I don't.
Q Under the circumstances here, Dr. Warshauer,

we don't know whether the staff did reject Dr. Eaton's 
application because of those reasons, do we?

A We do not know why the staff rejected Dr. 
Eaton.

Q Do you of your own knowledge, Dr. Warshauer, 
know of any reason why Dr, Eaton should not now be



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admitted to the staff?
A I don’t have any firm Information which would 

lead me to believe that he should not be admitted.
MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions.
MR. HOGUE: I have no questions.

p r . D A N I E L  £. R O A N S ,  having been duly sworn, 
testified as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q, Would you state your name for the record?
A Daniel C. Roane.

MR. CHAMBERS: I would like to state for
the record that in the notice filed by the 
plaintiff in connection with the taking of 
this deposition that Dr. Roane's first name 
was spelled R-o-n-a-l-d, and that his correct 
name is Dr. Daniel Roane; and that counsel for 
the defendant waives any irregularity in 
connection with the notice.

Q Dr. Roane, are you a practicing physician?



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A I am.
Q How long have you been practicing here in 

Wilmington?
A I have been practicing in Wilmington since

1938.
Q Are you a member of the staff of any hospital

here in Wilmington?
A Yes. I am a member of the Community Hospital 

staff and also of the courtesy staff of the James Walker 
Memorial Hospital.

Q Are you practicing any specialty here in Wil­
mington?

A Specialty not in regard to Board specialty, 
but I am practicing in a specialty a3 far as OB/GYN 
is concerned.

Q Is that true both at Community and at James 
Walker Memorial Hospital?

A Yes, it is.
Q Dr. Roane, do you know Dr. Eaton?
A Yes, I know him well.
Q How long have you knovm Dr. Eaton?
A I have known Dr. Eaton, I believe, since he

came to Wilmington. I'm not so sure whether it was 
around *38 or *40.

Q Have you participated with Dr. Eaton in



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community affairs? •
A Very much so. We have been together in a number 

of community affairs.
Q Have you had occasion to observe Dr. Eaton in 

his profession?
A Yes, I have.
q Have you had occasion to work with him pro­

fessionally?
A I have had numbers of occasions to work with 

him professionally.
Q You are a plaintiff in the suit of Eaton v.

The Board of Managers of James Walker Hospital, is that 
correct?

A Yes, that's correct.
Q Have you joined in as a plaintiff with Dr.

Eaton in any other litigation?
A I believe I can say yes and then qualify it 

by saying that I was originally a plaintiff along with 
him in the school desegregation suit, the bond issue, 
and other affairs here in Wilmington.

Q Would you say, Dr. Roane, that your contacts 
with Dr. Eaton enable you to express an opinion about 
Dr. Eaton's character and his professional ability?

A Definitely so.
Q And about his standing in the community?



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A Yes.
q Is It true. Dr. Roane, that Dr. Eaton has 

been quite active in civil rights activities in Wilmington?
A Yes, he has, definitely.
Q Is it true that he is recognized as a leader 

in this area in the community?
A He is recognized as such, and he has done a 

mammoth Job in leadership capacity.
q  Is it true that Dr. Eaton has been more prominent

than others in this particular area?
A He has been more prominently before the public.

I would say this, qualifying: that in most of the ventures 
that we have associated ourselves in he has been no 
greater individual than some of the rest of us, myself 
included, because we have sat down and discussed the 
matters and come to a conclusion. He has a gifted talent 
of being a spokesman, a speaker, and we have always 
decided to put our best foot forward and, In so doing, 
have elected him to leadership capacity as spokesman 
for groups in most of these ventures.

Q And while each of you have participated in 
civil rights matters, because of your election of Dr.
Eaton to various leadership capacities he has been slightly 
more prominently portrayed than others who were working 
right along with him; is that correct?



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Q Is it true that he occupied this position in 
the fight against the bond issue here in Wilmington?

A He occupied a similar position.
Q Would the same be true with respect to this 

lawsuit against the hospital?
A Yes, it was also.
Q Would the same be true of the suit against 

the school board?
A You mean the desegregation suit?
Q Desegregation of the schools, yes.
A Yes, it was.
Q In your opinion, Dr, Roane, do you feel that 

Dr. Eaton was denied staff privileges because of his 
more prominent role in these matters, or civil rights 
activities, or opposition to the bond issue?

A I couldn’t say definitely, but in my opinion 
I believe that that contributed in some respect to it.
He has been always outspoken in his manner of talk and 
presentation.

Q In your opinion would this account for Dr.
Eaton being rejected for staff privileges and other 
Negro applicants being accepted?

MR. HOGUE: I want to object to that ques­

A Yes, It's correct.

tion. It is hypothetical



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BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q You may go ahead and answer It.
A In a way it could reflect itself in that res­

pect because of the fact that leadership capacity some­
times in that phase creates a matter of Jealousy and 
envy, and in so doing it might have been a part or a 
factor insofar as he is concerned.

Q Do you know of any other reason, Dr. Roane, 
that would account for his rejection by the Board?

A Unless it would be a matter of envy or 
Jealousy as far as surgeons are concerned. He is 
prominent in the field of surgery in Wilmington more 
so than any of the rest of us Negro physicians. It might 
be a matter of conjecture, but I say that possibly could 
have added to some envy as far as other colleagues 
are concerned.

q  Do you know of any legitimate reason, Dr,
Roane, that would Justify the Board in denying Dr. Eaton's 
application for admission to the staff?

A I know of no reason, no, because he is 
well-prepared in surgery and is a capable, eminent 
doctor and has a vast following as far as his clientele 
is concerned.

Q In your opinion, professionally and morally 
Dr. Eaton is qualified for admission to the staff?



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Q Dr. Roane, have you performed surgery at 
Community Hospital?

A Yes, I have, and am doing surgery there.
Q Major surgery?
A Major surgery.
Q Have you performed surgery at James Walker 

Memorial Hospital?
A Up to this time, I have not.
Q Is it your opinion that you have privileges to

perform surgery at James Walker Memorial Hospital?
A It is my opinion. I have not been informed to 

the contrary.
Q Did you apply for such privileges in your 

application for staff membership?
A Yes, I did.
Q Were there any indications in the letter of 

acceptance from the Board that your privileges were in 
any way curtailed?

A No, there were not.
Q Have you observed Dr. Eaton In performing 

surgery at Community Hospital?
A Yes, we have worked together in a number of 

instances.
Q In your opinion do you feel that Dr. Eaton has

A Y e a .



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performed competently in his surgical practices?
A Very much so. And to that extent he was elected 

chief of surgery at our hospital and, I think, at the 
present time occupies that same position.

Q Have you had occasion to observe his charts?
A Yes.
Q Did you find those to be in proper order?
A Yes, they are, definitely so.
Q Dr. Roane, have you had occasion to visit the

James Walker Memorial Hospital following your admission?
A Following my admission?
Q To the 3taff.
A Yes. I have had patients there. I haven't had 

any admission of patients in the hospital since about 
May of this past year, though.

Q You had occasion to visit the hospital in May 
of this year?

A Yes. I think it was May as far as I can re­
call.

Q Did you have occasion to observe then whether
any major changes had been made in the assignment of 
patients to the formerly all-Negro wing?

A Well, at that time I had a patient myself in 
that wing, and at that time it was all Negro patients 
in the wing.



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Q You didn't see any whites in the wing at all?
A No.
Q That wing, I believe, is separated from the 

main part of the hospital, isn't that true?
A Yes, it's separated from the main part of the 

hospital.
Q Dr. Roane, have you had occasion to observe 

Dr. Eaton in his capacity as chief of surgery?
A Yes, I have.
Q Is that chief of staff of surgery or chief of 

the department of surgery?
A Chief of the department of surgery.
q Have you on any occasion observed any infraction 

of Dr. Eaton in the performance of surgery or in the 
carrying out of his professional duties?

A No, I have not.
Q Have you heard of any?
A I haven't heard of any.
Q Is the Community Hospital presently accredited?
A It was last year. Now, whether or not it 

still continues its accreditation, I don't know.
Q Dr. Roane, do you have a problem there of 

securing enough physicians to carry on the practice of 
medicine in Community Hospital?

A We do, definitely. Not only that, as an example



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In my own particular department I am chief of obstetrics 
at Community Hospital, and I have a problem of not being 
able to get other doctors to help me to carry on the 
service; and I think for the past twelve years I have 
had to carry it on by myself, and for each month of 
those twelve years I have been on call on service.

Q Has the hospital to your knowledge made any 
efforts to get physicians from the James Walker Memorial 
Hospital to give some assistance to those at Community?

A I can say that that has been done; and at 
times we have looked with anxiety to getting some help, 
and maybe they would come over for a few times and after 
that we wouldn’t see them any more, and soon after that, 
possibly we would get their resignation from the staff.

Q Has that been true of the surgery department 
as well as the other departments?

A In some respects; not as greatly as on OB.
Q Under the circumstances, Dr. Roane, do you

feel that the hospital, that is, the Community Hospital 
could establish a clinic for indigent patients, with 
the shortage of doctors you refer to?

A I don't see how it could staff a clinic for 
indigent patients. I have not attempted to do so on 
OB because of that same reason. If I established a 
clinic, I would have it all to do by myself; and I think



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the same thing is true as far as surgery is concerned.
With the shortage of doctors on the staff, it's impossible 
to run a well-regulated clinic, because it has to be 
staffed,

q  Dr. Roane, you stated that you had been accepted 
to the courtesy staff of James Walker Memorial Hospital, 
is that correct?

A Yes.
Q Does that position entitle you to vote on 

applicants for admission to the staff?
A No, it does not. It carries no voting 

privileges.
Q Has any Negro been accepted to any position 

higher than a courtesay staff position?
A Not to my knowledge.
q The next highest position would be an attendant 

staff position, wouldn’t it?
A Yes.
Q Are there any Negro attendant staff officers 

or physicians there?
A I know of none.
Q Is it your understanding, Dr. Roane, that the 

attendant staff has the opportunity or privilege here 
of accepting or rejecting an applicant for staff 
privileges for any reason it desires?



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A It appears that way.
Q And no efforts, to your knowledge, are made by 

the Board to correct any possible subjective activity 
or action on the part of the staff?

A I wouldn’t know of any.
q If the staff in considering Dr. Eaton's 

application acted because of Dr. Eaton's race, you know 
of no corrective steps taken by the Board to avoid this 
particular action, do you?

A I would not be in a position to know if any 
step had been taken in that regard.

Q If the staff acted because of Dr. Eaton's 
opposition to the bond issue, you know of no steps taken 
by the Board to correct this, do you?

A It would be impossible for me to know of any 
steps that they would have taken.

q In your opinion because of Dr. Eaton's more 
prominent role in the opposition to the bond issue and 
the civil rights litigation, do you feel that the staff 
acted here to prevent Dr. Eaton's admission to the 
staff because of his activity in opposition to the bond 
issue, and civil rights litigation?

A Ihat could be a possibility. But I think I can 
say this much: that I think I was as much in the fight 
as he was, other than the fact that he was more outspoken;



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and whether Individuals know it or not, I was as much in 
the fight as he was.

Q Your name was not as prominently portrayed as 
Dr. Eaton's?

A No, it was not.
Q Nor did you participate in the television 

program in opposition to the bond issue?
A I did not, nor the radio program either.

MR. CHAMBERS: Your witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Dr. Roane, with respect to the bond issue, we 

are speaking of the bond Issues for the construction of 
the new New Hanover County Hospital; isn't that correct? 

A Yes.
Q And isn't it true that advertisements were 

run in the Wilmington Journal signed by you, Dr. Eaton, 
and perhaps other Negro doctors opposing this bond
issue?

A I don't recall whether or not it appeared in 
the Journal. I did not make any effort to keep my 
name out of it, so it could have appeared there. I 
don't recall now the circumstances as to whether or not



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it was there.
Q You don't recall whether it did or did not?
A We ran, I believe, an ad in the situation;

1 think we ran an ad in the Star News as Tar as that 
is concerned; but as to whether or not my name 
appeared---

Q Isn't it true that your name and Dr. Eaton's 
and perhaps others' names appeared in this advertisement; 
isn't that correct?

A That's what I say, that I don't recall now 
actually whether or not it appeared.

Q Now, if copies of those ads are furnished and 
your name does appear, you wouldn't have any objection 
to their going into this record, would you?

A If they were the bona fide copies that we paid 
for as certified advertisements.

Q Now, you spoke of last having a patient in 
James Walker Hospital in May of 1965. Have you ever 
had a patient in the hospital who has been assigned to 
a room or wing other than the one that Mr. Chambers 
talked about?

A Yes. I have had a patient in the intensive 
care ward, and 1 have also had patients on obstetrics.
But let me say this much: that the patient on obstetrics 
at the time - and I don’t recall the exact month or day -



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was delivered in the delivery room and then assigned to
a part of the obstetrical department, but a room where 
all the individuals there were Negroes.

Q Well, now, at the time in May of 1965 when you 
had a patient in the Sprunt wing, did you check the 
hospital to see if all facilities were full?

A Yes. I made a request for another portion of 
the hospital, and I was informed by the admitting officer 
that that was the only place available at that time.

q You were informed that the hospital was full, 
weren't you?

A That that was the only place available. I 
don't know about its being full.

Q Now, isn't it true that after the delivery of 
a child, all babies are kept in the same ward for 
babies?

A I don't know that.
q  You never go to check on what happens to that 

baby after you bring it out, is that right?
A For the most part, I don't. I leave that to 

the pediatricians.
q  And you have had patients in other parts of 

the hospital?
A Yes.
Q Now, at Community Hospital how many operating



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rooms or suites do you have?
A We have at the present time one major and one

minor operating room.
Q How long does it take, generally, from the time 

you schedule an operation to the time that you are able 
to do it?

A It depends on the other physicians' schedules
that come in before; it all depends on how many are 
scheduled before. We have to take our turn unless it's 
a dire emergency and life is threatening; then, of 
course, that type of scheduling takes precedence over 
the regular routine schedule,

Q Wouldn't you say that generally speaking it's 
true that hospital facilities in Wilmington and New 
Hanover County are quite crowded?

A I can't say that definitely as far as Community
is concerned.

Q You can say that?
A I cannot say that.
Q How about as far as James Walker is concerned?
A I don't go in there often enough to give you

an opinion on that which would be comparable.
Q Would you say that both the facilities of 

Community and James Walker Hospital are somewhat anti­
quated?



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A I would say that, yes.
Q And would you say that the building of this 

new hospital was a step forward with respect to medical 
progress?

A The building of the new hospital will modernize 
the present facilities. I don’t say so much so a greater 
3tep forward because the bed capacity, I understand, is 
not going to be any greater than what it is now.

Q But it will provide m o d e m  medical facilities 
for the people in New Hanover County, won’t it?

A Modernization. That’s what I stated.
Q And those should be better facilities than 

those presently, shouldn't they?
A It should be more adequate.
Q Well, now, tell me, Dr. Roane, why did you and 

Dr. Eaton oppose this new hospital if it was going to 
provide better medical facilities?

A Well, Mr. Hogue, let me say it like this:
We looked over the situation as it was proposedj we also 
looked over the component members of the anticipated 
board of directors or managers of the proposed new 
hospital, and for the most part the board that was 
already constituted as the James Walker Memorial Board 
was there as members of this proposed hospital board.
And if we could not get sufficient recourse and redress



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from the Board, having had to sue them over a period of 
ten years for privileges, I Just couldn't see how we 
could show good faith with them when they hadn't shown 
good faith with us by allowing us privileges in the 
old hospital, the James Walker, without our having sued 
them. This suit, you know, took a--

Q Let me interrupt you there. Which members of
the James Walker Board were, at the time you opposed the 
new hospital, members of the new hospital board?

A I couldn't say right off and call the names, 
but, as I remember, I believe that as many as thirteen 
or fifteen of them were supposed to have been members 
of the proposed new hospital board. Now, I might be 
wrong with the number, but a goodly portion of them.

Q You don't know whether they were or not, do
you?

A Well, I can't 3ay definitely that they are at 
the present time; I would have to check the records.

Q Now, you know, don't you, that Mr. L, A.
Raney is not a member of the new hospital board?

A No, I don't know that. I don't know the con­
stituents of the new hospital board.

q You know that Mr. Allen Marshall is not a member 
of it, don't you?

A No, I don't know that.



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Q
of it0

You know that Mr. R. H. Holland is not a member

A I do not know that. I do not know the 
constituents of the present board.

Q Well, now, which of these present members - 
and you were here this morning - which of those are on 
the new hospital board, if any?

A I do not know.
Q Is Mr. Page on it?
A I don't know.
Q Is Mr. MacRae on it?
A I do not know.
Q Is Dr. Knox on it?
A I do not know.
Q Is Mr. Holland on it?
A I don't know.
Q So the truth of it is you don't really know

whether any of the present members of the James Walker 
Hospital Board are on the new hospital board?

A It would be impossible for me to carry the 
members of a board of such a constituency as that in 
my memory as far as that's concerned, and I am only going 
by my recollection when I tell you the number of indivldUi 
who were on the proposed board to start with. I think 
that the records would show.



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Q Would It surprise you to know that only one 
of them is on it?

A Yes, it would surprise me.
Q It would surprise you?
A It surely would.
Q So it may have been that your reasons for 

opposing the bond issue were incorrect, is that correct?
A No.
Q *niey could have been based on erroneous 

suspicion?
A No, there was no erroneous suspicion about it.
Q Isn't It true that you were assured that staff

privileges would be granted you at the new hospital?
A We were not assured, no, because in the 

final analysis at that time we were fighting for staff 
privileges ourselves in the courts.

Q Do you maintain staff privileges at Cape Fear 
Hospital?

A I do not.
Q Have you applied for staff privileges there?
A I have not.
Q How about Babies Hospital?
A I have not.
Q Have you applied there?
A I have not.



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Q Ohey are hospitals In New Hanover County?
A I understand they are.
Q Your application to the courtesy staff of 

James Walker Hospital was granted?
A Yes.
Q And you have practiced there?
A Yes, I have.
Q So any activity which you had had in civil 

rights matters did not prevent you from getting on the 
staff at James Walker Hospital, did it?

A As far as I know; I assume that they did not.
But they might not have been known to those who voted 
for me.

Q Dr. Roane, as a member of the staff at Community 
Hospital do you all have staff meetings?

A Yes, we have staff meetings.
Q How often do you have staff meetings?
A Staff meetings are held once a month - medical 

staff meetings.
Q Do you discuss cases at these meetings?
A They are discussed.
Q Do you have audit committees for auditing

surgical procedures?
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Q Who is on the audit committee for surgical



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procedures?
A I do not know.
Q How many doctors are on your staff there?
A I couldn't tell you that right offhand. I 

know it's a dwindling number, I could tell you that.
MR. HOGUE: I have no further questions.

REDIRE CT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Dr. Roane, how many patients have you had 

admitted to James Walker Hospital and placed in rooms 
other than the formerly all-Negro wing?

A I have had only about four or five altogether, 
and two of those were in the all-Negro wing, and the 
others were in Intensive care and obstetrics, I believe.

Q Were there any special circumstances surround­
ing the one in intensive care?

A Yes. What do you mean? As far as his being 
necessary to be placed in intensive care? Yes, he 
merited it on the basis of a potential cerebral or head 
injury.

Q And the one being placed in obstetrics, were 
there any special circumstances there that warranted the 
patient's admission to the other part of the hospital?



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A All obstetrical patients are kept in the depart 
ment, as I said before. But this patient - and, of 
course, that’s not recent - but this patient was placed 
in a room on the obstetrical floor, but a room which 
contained other Negroes. And all Negroes at that time 
were on this floor. I don't know whether or not that 
is the policy now, because I haven't had an obstetrical 
patient over there recently.

Q You say all Negroes were on this floor?
A They were all in this one room.
Q All, only Negroes?
A Yes, sir.
Q Vias this true of the patient in intensive 

care alBO?
A No, it was not.

MR. CHAMBERSi No further questions.



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STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA 
COUNTY OF WAKE

SS

I, Wilda Y. Hauer, a Notary Public in and for 
the State of North Carolina at Large, hereby certify that 
the foregoing witnesses were duly sworn by me prior to 
their giving testimony in the foregoing cause;

Uxat the testimony of said witnesses was taken 
by me in stenotypy and also by means of electronic record­
ing and thereafter transcribed and reduced to typewriting
under my supervision and direction;

That the foregoing 147 pages contain a full, 
true and correct record and transcription of all interroga­
tories propounded to each witness and of the answers given 
by him;

I further certify that I am an Official Court 
Reporter for the United States District Court, Eastern 
District of North Carolina, am not related by blood or 
marriage to any of the parties, am not an employee or 
agent of any of the parties, nor am I interested directly 
or indirectly in the event of said action.

Witness my hand and seal this day of
October, 1965.

u m p a r y m e n s

My commission expires 
May 28, 1966.



L A W Y E R ’ S N O T E S