Raney v. Board of Education of The Gould School District Record

    RUFUS L. EDMISTEN
ATTOR'{EY GENERAL

fitate af $ort[ @urolina
pepartment of llustice

P. O.30x t2e
RALEIOH

27t[,2-{,l,,2a

January L7, 1983

Mr. J. Rich Leonard
Clerk of United States District Court
North Carolina Eastern District
Raleigh Division
Post Office Box 25670
Raleigh, North Carolina 276L1

Re: Cavanagh, et al. v. Brock, et al.
82-545-CrV-5

Dear lIr. Leonard:

Enclosed please find for filing the transcript
and exhibits from the deposition of Michael S. Michalec
on October 74, 1982.

fn accordance with Local Rule 3.09, Defendants
are filing these discovery materials for use in the above-
captioned matter.

Thank you for your usual cooperation.

Yours very truly,
RUFUS L.
Attorney

JVirJr.:rc
Enclosures

cc: Mr. J. Levonne Chambers
Ms. Leslie Winner
Mr. Jack Greenberg
Mr. James M. Ilabritt III
Ms. Lani Guinier
Mr. Arthur J. Donaldson
Mr. Robert N. Hunter, Jr.
Mr. Hamilton C. Ilorton, Jr.
Mr. llayne T. E1liot



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IN THE I,JNITED STATES DISIRICT COI,'RT.FOR 
T}IE EASTERN DISlts,ICT OF NORTH CAROLIM

RALEIGII DIVISION
82-545-crv-5

JOHN J. CAVAMGII , JOHN t{. FARE, JOHN M.
HESTER, RICHARD V. LINVILLE, I{ILLIAM W.
IINVILLE, JOHN HEI,IRY MLTRRAY, J. G. NEAL,
Iil. E. NEAL, CHARLES PIERCE, F:RANK E.
RHODES, H. cRAy SWAIN, ROBERT p. SI{ISI{ER
and I{. GRADY SWISHER,

Plaintiffs,
V8.

ALEX K. BROCK (Executlve Director. NorEh
Carolina Srate Board of Electlons), ROBERT

!_.__qPEApJ't4N, ffiS. ELLOREE M. B,WIN, l.[RS.
RtIfH T. SEMASHKO, I{ILLIAI.| A. I-|ARSH; JR.,
and ROBERT R. BROWNING (Mennbers, North
Carolina State Board of Electtons),

Defendants

The deposltion of ltrcHAEL s. MTCIIALEC was conducced

at 450 I'ICNB tsuildin5, \.linstou-Salen, lriorch Carolina, con-

mencing at 9:2L otclock B.ru. on }tonday, the 4th day of
October, 1982.

APPEARANCES OF COI.'NSEL

FOR ItlE PLAINTIFFS: Hamllton C. Horton, Jr., Esq., and
Thomas Worth, EBq., of the flro of
WHITING HORTON & HENDRICK
450 NCNB Butldlng
Winston-Salen, North Carolina 27LOL

FOR IlIE DEFENDAMS: James M. Wallace, Jr., Eeq.
Deputy Attorney General, and
Tiare B. Snl1ey, Esq.
Asslstant Attorney General
NC Department of Justlce
Post Office Box 629
Ralelgh, North Carollna 27602

Kathleen Heenan, EBq., of the flrm of
JERRIS LEONARD & ASSOCTATESI P.C.
900 17th Street, N.W. -

I{ashington, D.C. 20006

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 2

I N D.E X

STIPULATIONS 3

EXAMINATION

M8.

Mr.

Mg.

Mr.

Heenan

l{al1ace

Snlley

Horton

11,30,
4) 52

63, 75

67

70

ADJOI.'RNMENT

REPORTER CERTIFICATE

WITNESS CER,TITICATE

77

78

79

EXHIBITS

Exhlblt
Exhiblt
Exhlblt

1r 2
3
5

Defendants
Defendante
Defendants

tA
45
59

Identlfled

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 3

STIPULATIONS

PursuanE Eo coneent of the respectLve partles, the

deposltion of MICHAEL S. MICIIALEC was taken before Ctrarlotte

M. Perry, Notary Public and Court Reporter.

The deposltion was conducted at 450 NCNB Bulldlng,
Winston-Sa1em, North Carollna, beginnlng at 9:21 orclock

B.n. on Monday, the 4th day of September, 1982.

Forma1 notice of ttne and place and purpose of
takLng ah: deposltlon was walved. Formalltles wlth regard

to seallng and fillng Ehe deposltlon were walved, and lE is
stipulated that the orlglnal transcrlpt, upon belng certl-
fied by the undersLgned court reporter, ehall be flled in
the offlce of the Clerk of Unlted Scates Distrlct Court for
the Eastern Dlstrict of North Carolina, Ralelgh, DivLslon,

Raleigh, North Caroltna.

It ls further stlpulated that obJectlons to ques-

tlons and motlons to strike answers are reserved untll the

testimony, or any part thereof, ls offered for evidence,

except that obJection(s) to the form of any question shall

be noted on the record at the tlme of the taklng of the

test lmony.

Reading and signlng of the testlmony was requested,

sald testlmony to be subnitted to the wLtness and sub-

eequently flled wlth the court pursuant to the appllcable

rule(s) of clvll procedure.

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Mlehael S. Mlchalec Page 4

The wltneso, MICHAEL S. MICHALEC, belng flret duly

Bworn to Btate the truth, the whole truth and nothlng but

the truth, on hls oath testlfled aa follows:

19:2L or clock a.m.l

E)(AMINATION

BY MS. HEEIIIAN TO MICHAEL S. MICIIALEC :

Q. Mr. Michalec, ItE Kathleen Heenan, and I'm assoc-

iated with the State of North Carollna. If you would, BtarE

by statlng your fuII name for the record, and your address,

please.

A. Michael S. Michalec, and I live at 6229 Arden Clrcle

ln Clemmons, North Carollna.

Q. Mr. Michalec, what ls your educatlonal background,

lf naybe you could suemarize for us, Just Btartlng wlth ---
A. --- Well, I donrt know if you want all

Q. Secondary educatlon? Startl,ng wlth college and

go forward?

A. Oh, okay. I attended Syracuse Universlty for one

year in electrlcal engineeri.g, and Ehen I graduated fron

LeMoyne College in Syracuse, New York, ln economlcs ln 1960.

Okay?

Q. Okay. What ls your educatlonal background Ln com-

puEers?

A. Itve been ln and around comPuter work for over

twenty yearg.

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 5

Q. And when you say in and arorurd, le that on-the-job

type involvement and tralnlng?

A. Meaning wtrat? Even r*ren I was in college prlor to

thls tirne, I worked around ln a data-processing center.

I did not do systems and progranming work. However, I was

lnvolved ln adJunct firnctlonsl eccounts rece.lvab1e, thls
kind of thlng. And I worked aa en lnternal audi.tor for
a while and managed an accountlng department prlor to

gettlng lnvolved ln data proceseLng directly in 1953.

Q. Okay. Why donrt you Btart wich naybe L953

A. --- AIl rlght.

Q. In data processlng and glve us an enploynent

summary, golng forward from ---

A. --- Okay, ln 1963 I jolned General Dynanlcs Corpora-

tlon as a systems analyst, and left there ln 1966 as a

supervieor -- Bystems supervtsor.

From there I went to Eaton Corporatlon as data pro-

cessing Eanager of a dlvision of Eaton.

MR. HORTON: How do you spell that?

E-a- t-o-n?

THE WITNESS: E-a-t-o-n, rlght. From

there I moved to North Carollna with Arlsta Informatlon

Systens, which was out of Wlnston-Salernr 88 a proJect Ean-

ager, and progressed ehortly chereafter to becoming vlce

president of the company.

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Ml,chael S. Mlchalec Page 6

And ln 1978 I left Arleta, afrer the eleven or

twerve years that r wae there, and went lnto buslness for
nyserf ln the computer consurtlng, and have si.nce been that.

Thts last June I forned a partnership wlth anoEher

gentleman. He came lnto -- ln effect, he came lnto businese

wlth ne.

Q. Thls l,s Michalec & Jenklns?

A. Jenklns, rlght.

Q. Okay. Mr. Mlchalec, have you ever had any formal

tralnlng ln the area of redistrlctlng or reapportionlng?

A. Have not. No, I have noE.

Q. Have you ever drawn a redistricclng plan?

A. Have not; oor not prlor to thls tlme.

Q. Have you drawn one now?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you ever drawn a redlstrictlng plan Ehat encom-

passes an entlre state?

A. Not lf I had -- well, with thls one, y€Br but not

prior to this tirne r Do. .

Q. Okay. Are you famLllar wlth the computer data base

that was used by the legislature and the drafters ln the

North Carolina reapportlonment -- when I eay North Carollna

reapportionmenc, I referrlng to the one thatrs the eubJdct

of thls sult.
A. Okay, letr s be careful about using technical terme

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 7

lIke data base unress you know speclflcally ntrat data wetre

talking about. Okay?

Q. Okay.

A. Ue prLroarlly are using the cenaus data.

Q. Okay.

A. Okay? And letrs keep the conment to that, because

data base is a wlde, generlc term.

Q. Okay. I was referrlng to the cenaus

A. --- Okay.

Q. --- Which was the data base

A. --- Right, whtch ---

Q. --- Used by the ---
A. Is the data base that they provided to uB;

thatt s correct.

Q. Mr. Michalec, do you have any oplnion regarding the

accuracy of the ceneus data?

A. No. I have no basls to -- to dlspute the accuracy

of ttre data that was provlded to u8. I know that the -- the

data ln computer readable form that rras provided ls'exactly
the data that they gave us on printed form. Okay? At leaet
exactly as as much as I checked l-E, an)rway. Letrs put lt
that way.

Q. Okay. Have you any oplnion as to wtrat ought to be

done about the suppression problern ln the cenaue data?

A. Suppresslon problen?

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Mlchael S. Michalec Page 8

Q. Yeah.
' A. Uhat do you mean by that? your 11 have to cIarlfy.

Q. Ttre suppreeslon of Eome lnfornation in Bome geo-

graphlcar entitles or srnall geographlcal units nhere Ehe

cenaus bureau has suppressed lnformatlon to protect prlvacy
of eome lndividuals.

A. No, I don't -- do not have any opinton.

Q. Do you have an opinlon as to how a programmer ought

to dear wlth assigning populatlon when they splrt a brock?

A. Read that agaln, pleaee.

Q. Do you have an opinlon as to how a reapportioner

ought to assign populatlon in a spllt block?

A. No. I I -- you know, I I donrt understand the

purpose of the questlon Bo Ir11 say no, I donrE have any

opinlon.

Q. Mr. Micha1ec, are you famillar wlth sectlon flve of
the Votlng Rights Acr?

A. Probably not as much ae I should be, no. Apart from

knowing what counties in the State of North Carollna cnme

under the Voting Rlghte Actl no.

Q. Do you know what slgnlficance sectlon flve of the

Votlng Rtghts Act would have ln the overall task of reappor-

tlonment or redistrtctlng?

A. WeIl....

MR. HORTON: May I lnterpose; or not ao

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page

much an objectlon as a conment. I,ltry donrt you Juet aek hln
what he dld, becauser you know, here not a legal er(pert, and

we donr t tender hi.n as anythlng more than a person who can

handle the data that was provided and come up wlth appro-

priate results.
MS. HEEI'IAN: Could you read back the last

question? I rve forgotten lt already.

INext prevlous questlon read back by reporter]

Q. (t't. Heenan) Can you anawer that questlon?

A. Iln having a hard tlne r:nderstanding wtrat youtre

trying to get at, but baslcally I thlnk I ln -- ln -- one

in the lnterpretation, an) ray, rhat -- that I had with --
wlth the work in whlch -- that I wae dolng, I guese lt wae

the -- the point of one rDan, one vote. Ttlerefore, ln not

dllutlng -- or ln not dilutlng the votLng power of any par-

ticular group wtthln rhe state by using popuratlon densltles
g,reater for a partlcular Beat. Okay?

Q. (Ms. Heenan) Do you have an opinion on what ls
meant by dtlutlon?

A. Meanlng that you would have a greater nurnber of
people represented by one lndivldual than you would have in
another part of the 8tate, where you would have a lot fewer.

Okay?

Q. A11 rtght. Do you have an opinlon on whaE ls meant

by packtng?

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 10

A. No.

Q. Do you have an opLnion on the meanlng of raclal eub-

mersion?

A. I could guess, but I guess not, no; not ln thls
eaae.

Q. Do you have an opinLon on what Ls rneant by frag-
nentlng?

A. No. Not ln the context of thle1 no.

Q. Do you have an opinlon regardLng Ehe approach a

redlstrlctor ehould take tn determlnlng whether a partlcular
redistrlctlng plan dilutes or submerges black votlng

strength?

A. No.

Q. Do you have an opinlon aa to wtrether the 1980 reap-

portlonment plans for the North Carollna General Assenbly

afford a falr opportunlty for blacks to elect candldates of
thelr choice?

A. No, I do not have an opinion about that.

Q. Do you have an opinlon ae to the allowable popula-

tlon devlatlon for a congresslonal redistrlctlng plan?

A. No. I dld not look at congressional.

Q. Do you have an opLnLon as to the allowable popula-

tLon deviatlon for a state legislatLve reapportlonment plan,

rneaning the Btate house and senate?

A. You mean an opinlon as to how much lt ought to be,

o82- rv-

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Mlchael S. MLchalec Page 1l

you mean? I

Q. --- Letrs say as to wtrat is allowab1e -- conatltu-

tLonally allowable or permlssible.

A. 1{e11, put -- you know, what we used were the aame

parameters that the Etate used ln arrl-vlng at thelr redla-

trlctlng plan; Ehe plus or mlnus flve percent of the average

population, dlvided by the number of representaclves allowed

by the state constltution.
E)(A}'IINATION

BY MR. WALI.ACE TO MICHAEL S. MIC}IALEC:

Q. Mr. Mlchalec, Irm ---
MR. HORTON: I gather that Ms. Heenan

l-s through wlth her questLons?

MR. WALLACE: Are you golng to requlre ue

to do lt that way? Ms. Heenan, I thlnk, would llke Eo look

at her questlons a ltttle blt longer and let me go lnto a

few other polnts whlle Bhe....

MS. HEEMN: Would that be okay?

MR. WALLACE: Do you have any obJection to

that?

I*fR. HORTON: WeIl, I think we can do lt

thls time, but usually ltrs better for us to go ahead and

complete one partyte questlons and then move to the next

one. But in thls case

MS. HEEMN: Since we all

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 12

MR. HORTON: --- Mike, do you have an

obJectlon to

THE I.IITMSS: --- lrle.

MR. HORTON: --- Double teanlng?

THE I.IITMSS: No .

MS. HEEMN: We donf t mean to do that.

Sometlnes there -- youlr€....

Q. (Mr. Wallace) I Just want to ask you flrst, Mr.

Mlchalec, were you able to draw -- did you say you drew

reapportionment plans?

A. Yes.'

Q. Okay. I{trat do you mean by that?

A. I{e took the same paramecers that the Bcate took ln

reapportloning the representatLon of the state for the house

and the Benate -- Btate senate, going county by county.

Okay? The -- the ground rules that we used were to not

split nonvoting rlghts applicable counties. Ttrat was the

only parameter, and Ehat was all we looked 8t.

Q. That was the only parameter?

A. I'hat was the only parameter that I was glven.

Q. A11 right, sir. Dld you nake an effort to Etay

withln a plus or mlnus ftve percent devlatlon?

A. Oh, absolutely, yes.

Q. And how many plane were you able Eo come up wlth

that stayed withln a plus or mlnus five percent deviatlon?

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A. I only attenpted lt once.

Q. You attenpted ---
A. --- Yes.

Q. --- To draw a plan one tine?

A. And I have that here.

Q. You have that plan there?

A. th-huh (yes).

Q. Does that plan bear any resenblance to any other
plan youtve ever seen?

A. The only other plan Irve ever aeen Ls the one that
the state flnalIy carne up with. That was the only one that
I looked 8t, and I really didnrt look at 1r that cloeely.

Q. You were never asked to check any other plans or Ehe

mathemaclcal accuracy of any other plans?

A. No, sir.

Q. No other proposed plans were brought to your atten-

tlon ---
A. --- NO.

Q. --- Other than che enacted ones?

A. No.

Q. Everythlng you dld you did from scratch?

A. Right.

Q. And you came up wl.th one plan?

A. Uh-huh, that I s correct.

Q. A11 rlght, elr. I donrt mean to ask rldlculous

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questions. Can you tell ne in a falrly sinple way how that
plan differs from the plan that was enacted by the general

asserubly with respect to Ehe houee of represenEatLvee?

A. (tlo response)

Q. By that, I assume -- let ne Btate firet, I assume

you returned two townshLps to Forsyth Cor.rnty when you ---
A. --- Thatr s correct.

Q. --- l{hen you -- I mean, would that not be ---
A. --- LIh-huh (yes).

Q. --- A fair assuroptlon?

A. t h-huh, yes .

Q. A11 rlght. Can you tel1 me r*trat you did to accom-

modate that change?

A. WeIl, I -- you know, naybe Ehe best thing would be

to show you what wetve done.

Q. Letr a -- thaEt s ---
MR. HORTON: --- Letrs do that.
MR. I{ALLACE: --- Fine. Just ao we can

get lt on the record, too, if thatts....
THE WITNESS: Letrs letrs take the

house. A11 rlght.
(Off-record dlscusslon)

MR. HORTON: Letrs see, yourve got thelr
houee, havenrt you?

THE WITMSS: Right, thaErs thelr houoe.

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Mlchael S. Michalec Page 15

Okay. This ls thelr -- their hor:se plan.

MR. HORTON: Ttrls ls the one thac wag

paesed by the State, and thls ls Mr. Mlchalect8.

THE I{ITMSS: Now, we have not drawn lt

out on a map -- all rlght -- whlch could very easlly be

done.

MR. I{ALLACE: Okay.

THE WITNESS: The first difference that

you w111 notlce aa you to through the house plan ls they

split a total of twenty-four countles; Bome of then three or

four different waysr ES you can aee over ln herei they epllt

them up. I{e spltt thlrteen. A11 were Votlng Rlghts Act

countles.

We made an attempt ln -- ln some cases let me say

thls, that we did split sone cor:nties that, ln reallty,

probably would not have had to have been splic, but rre dld

it for the sake of a geographlc area, meaning that the area

ln whlch we h,ere comLng up wlth for a house dlstrict was

very, very large in -- ln area -- space, and we felt lt wae

better to go ahead and take the split to cry to get lt Eo

lnto a more reasonable stze.

Q. (Mr. I{a1lace) llhat dld you do? Pull portlons of

large distrlcts lnto two large districta or ---

A. --- How -- whatever would -- whatever lt would take

to roake that lnto into two; you know, like especlally

il

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 16

dlvidlng a great big area lnto -- into two areae. Like take

the area ln Ehe eastern part of the stete nhere they have

one great btg area; we ended up splittlng thla lnto two.

Q. th-huh (yes).

A. Okay? By takLng a Voting Rlghts Act county -- or a

excuse -- yeah, a councy, and spllttlng lt and Ehen

naklng -- nakLng lt two uhere lt nade sense.

We dld attempt to keep the areas as relatlvely snall

as we posslbly could. Okay?

MS. HEEMN: I wonder lf I could look at

these?

THE I{ITNESS: Okay.

MS. IIEEMN: CouLd we cake a couple of

minutes Just to look at Ehls?

MR. HORTON: Sure. Why donr t we Juet ---

MS. HEEIiIAN: Itts kind of hard Just to

-- you know ---
tIR. HORTON: --- Why donr t we let h1n go

through it county by county?

MS. HEEMN: Okay.

THE WITMSS : Okay.

MS. HEEI{AN: Oh, that w111 be ftner oE

dLstrLct by dlstrlct, whlchever.

THE I.IITMSS: Okay, yeah. Ttle dlstrLcts

start the Bame as theirs do, Ln the eastern Part of the

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Michael S. Michalec Page 17

state, and go to the western part of the Btate. Ttrat le noE

MR. HORTON: --- I{hen you say thelrs r }ou
mean the offlcial Btate plan?

TttE I{ITNESS: The offlcial Btate plan,

okay. Thatts Just to keep the nrrmberln1 -- the baslcally

the Bame. Yourll aee Borue deviaEions. I waen't -- I wasnrt

always concerned about doing that ln that uay. Okay. Now,

letre take thls. L€ttB -- eince you have your copy over

there Irn going to read -- go over thts copy here. Okay.

Our flrst distrlct in Ehe eastern part of the Btate

only has one member one representatlve. Thelrs had two.

They comblned a lot of thlngs together, and they aleo

crossed the the sound, whlch we dld not do.

Q. (Mr. Wallace) Explaln that, lf you would.

A. --- Okay, the -- what ls lt? I{hat ls the sound?

MR. HORTON: Albenarle.

THE IIITMSS: I dontt even -- A1bemar1e

Sound, okay.

Okay. I dontt know -- I as I go through thls,

ltrs -- ltrs let me put it thls rray. Itre pretty old hat

to mer Bo yout 11 have to ask me Eo Btop or explaln someEhing

as we go through here.

MR. I{ALLACE: I{e11r BS long as I would

like thls put ln as an exhlbitr lf thatrs all rtght wlth

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 18

you.

MR. HORTON: Do we have any extra coplee?

THE IJITMSS: I donrt have any extra wlth
me todayl no.

MR. HORTON: We can fi.rrnlsh everybody

coples, I guess, eventually, lf you can make. coplee of them.

MR. WALI"ACE: I thlnk we can make coples.

Let me aek -- we have asked probably asked for a copy of
thls or somethlng sfuollar ln our lnterrogatorles to you. I
donrt remember. We didnrt ask for a copy of any plans or

anythlng Ilke that?

I{R. WORTH: No. You Just asked wheEher

plans had been drawn.

I{R. WALLACE: Okay.

MR. WORTH: To the best of my recollec-
tlon, 8t least.

MR. WALI"ACE: A11 rlght. Lthy donrt we

defer thaE judgment? Can you check wlthln those lnterrog-
atories? Do you nind doing that?

MS. SMILEY: Let ne see, I thlnk Irve got

them.

MR. WALLACE: Those are Just draft lnter-
rogatorles. Lette Just go through lt.

THE IJITMSS : Okay.

MR. TJALLACE: I think we can arrlve at an

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Michael S. MLchalec Page 19

agreement as to
THE WITMSS: --- Okay. I donrt know that

Bee be able to aee from here compared to
that the State came up with any -- you

the bat unless yourve worked with the BEa-

MR. WALLACE: --- lrh-huh.

THE WITMSS: --- Be able to aee anythlng

thatrs signlficant in -- in thls. rtte Just that as we go

through representatlve by represencatlve ---
MR. WALLACE: --- I.Je11, letrs donrt --

letre donrt -- do you rrant to go Ehrough ---
TIIE WITMSS: I dontt -- I dontc ---
MS. HEEMN: Ird like to go through

lt.

MR. HORTON: Okay.

MS. HEEMN: I meanr Bo qulckly, by ---
MR. HORTON: --- You mean dlstrict by dls-

trict?

black percentage

MS. HEEMN: Just dlstrlct by dietrtct.
THE I.IITNESS: Okay.

MS. HEEMN: I want a deviation ln the

in every distrlct, and I can go through lt

MR. HORTON: --- WeIl, why dontt you --

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MLchael S. Michalec Page 20

why don't ---
MS. HEEMN: --- And wrlte iE down.

I{R. HORTON: --- Why don't you go through

Lt and put each districte Mr. Dlichalec, and Bcate the devia-

tlon and the percentage of black populatlon?

MS. HEtIMN: And then the number of mem-

bers

MR. HORTON: --- And the number of mem-

bers.

MS. HEEMN: --- Because there wlII be

Bome -- Borue dlfferences.

THE WITMSS: Okay. Okay, Ehe flret dle-
trlct has a devlatlon of -- letrs see, how dld I put that --
.928 percent. ThatrB .928 percent, okay, whlch meana that
ltr s the actual deviatlon, the way I represented lt on

herer ls .00928. Okay? So Ir11 give iE co you in that --
in those termg.

MS. HEEMN: Yeah, if you would. Just

glve me a decinal

THE WITNESS: --- Just the decLroal polnt?

MS. IIEEMN: Yeah.

THE IIITMSS: Okay. Ttle percentage -- you

want the percentage, black populatlon?

MS . }IEEMN: Ye 8 .

THE WITMSS: 31.8 percent. 31.8.

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Okay, and the eecond dletrlct has a devlatlon of .04

excuse me, .O24L2, and che black populatlon le 49 per-

cent.

And the next dlstrict le a deviatlon of .02679 mlnus

thatt B a mlnus percenE -- and a black population of 29.9.

Okay, the next distrlct, distrlct nunber four, has a

percentage of .04168 minus and a black populatlon of 51.1

percent. And excuse rDe -- thoee are all one representa-

tlves, all the way Ehrough on thls. Okay?

DLstrlct nu-ber flve has a deviation of .03827

mlnus. Oh, youtve already got that?

MS. HEEI'IAN: Yeah.

THE WITMSS: Oh, okay. And a black popu-

lation of 32.7 percent.

MS. HEEIIIAN: Irm Jusc gotng to etand

:::t"a 
you Bo I can see the list of cor:ntles, lf rhat w111

THE I{ITMSS: --- 1'Ie11, I can turn 1E

around because I can read lt upslde-down, lf thatrs utlat

youtd llke. Would that -- wouldnrt that be easter?

MS. IIEEMN: Okay, if thatrs easler for
you.

THE WITNESS: I was an audltor for a wtrLle

learn how to read upslde-down ---
MS. HEIiMN: --- To read upslde-dolrn. A

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 22

great talent.
MR. I{ALI"ACE: He was that or a book ealee-

man; one of the two.

MS. IIEEMN: Okay, dlstrlct Blx.

TIIE WITNESS: Dlstrlct eix has a devlatlon

of .02550 and a black populatlon of 29.6 percent.

Okay, distrlcE number eeven has two representatlves.

It has a deviation of .04011 and a ---
MR. HORTON: --- Thatrs I minug.

THE I.JITNESS: Mlnus , rlght. And a black

populatlon of 18 percent.

Okay, distrlct number elghc has two rePresentatlves

also, and a deviatton of .00954 and a black populatlon of

35.3 percent.

And dlstrlct number nine has a devlatlon of .O45Ol

and a black populatLon of 43 percenE. One representatlve.

MR. HORTON: 43.4.

THE I.IITNESS: 43.4. Okay.

Distrlct number ten has two rePresentatlves and a

devlation of .00191 and a black populatlon of 42.3 percent.

Okay, distrlct number eleven has two rePresentaEives

also, has a devlatlon of .01512 nlnus and a black populatlon

of 45.9 percent.

You can aee I was runnlng out of paper r*ten I ran

thle. Ttratrs why the red ls on there. A11 rlght.

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MLchael S. Mlchalec Page 23

Dlstrlct number twelve has two representatlves and a

devlatLon of .04957. I thlnk thatt s our largest devlatlon,

minus-wise. And a black populatlon of 22.5 percenE.

And dlstrict number thirteen has a devlatlon of

.01085 and a 47.1 percent black populatlon. What was that?

That was thlrteen, okay

Dlstrlct fourEeen has thro representatlves, and ltrs

all of one county.

MS. IIEEIIAN: Tno?

THE IJITMSS: Rlght. And ao it has a

deviatlon of .00996 nlnus and a black populatlon of 32.6

percent.

Okay, dletrlct number fifteen has two representa-

tlves aleo, and tras a devlatlon of .02795 and a black popu-

lation of 36.5 percent.

Okay, now thLs one here, I had made a mlstake, and

we had noticed lt after we prlnted lt ouE, and I have not

been able to get back to Ehe conPuter to make -- make thts

change. I had just put the wrong dietrlct nu.mber on these

counties

MS. HEEMN: --- Oh, okay.

THE WITMSS: --- Or thLs of theee

townships of Onslow County. They belong ln a eeparate

dlstrlctr Bo we would have two and two here. We would h"r9

two dletrlcts -- or trro -- excuse me' trro rePresentatlves ln

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distrlct -- what ls thls, dietrlct ---
MS. HEEMN: --- Slxteen.

THE IIITNESS: --- Slxteen, rlghr. And

that would be two -- two countles conblned; would be Harnett

and Lee County, and I would have to recalculate the ---
MS. HEEMN: --- Okay

TllE VJITMSS: --- The percentage devia-

tion, but lt Ls not -- itrs not golng to vary greatly from

that.
MS. IIEEMN: Okay. And Ehese townshlps

are actually in dlstrlct forty-seven?

THE I{ITMSS: The -- thatrs wtlat Irn going

to make then ---
!lS. HEEMN: --- Okay.

THE WITMSS: Is dlstrlct forty-eev€o.

Okay? Only because if I dont t I have to renumber all the

other dletricts.
MS. HEEMN: A11 right.
TltE I{ITMSS: Okay? And ltrs Jusr e

clerlcal exerclse to do Ehat.

MS. IIEEMN: Okay.

THE WITNESS: Okay? But werre talktng

about the total for the rrtrole thlng of 2L.5 percent black

populatlon of both of those dlstricts together and a devla-

tl.on of , you knord. .. .

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MS . HEEMN: Okay.

TllE VJITNESS: A deviarlon of .02946.

MR. HORTON: Minus.

TltE I{ITMSS: Mlnue , rlghr.
Okay, thie le dietrict number Beventeen has three

representatlves, and lt hae a deviation of .00766 and a

black populatton of 27 and a half percent.

Okay, now, I suppose that that problen could have

been broken -- wellr may -- may or may not have -- Dor I
guess lt could not have been broken down more. You got a

numbers tane whenever youtre playing thls g8ne.

Okay, distrlct number elghteen tlas two representa-

tives and has a devlatlon of .03275 and a 27.1 percent black

populatlon.

And dlstrict number nlneteen has -- well, lt has one

counEy spllt ln here, Eoo. It has two represenEatlves and a

deviation of .01352 mlnus and a black population of 40 per-

cent even. I dontt even know what the etatewlde average ls.
Ird have to look at.

The -- distrlct nr:mber twenty ls all of one county;

all of Durham County, which has a deviatlon of .03904 and a

black populatlon of 36.3 percent.

And distrlct twenty-one has a deviatlon of .OO27S

minus and a black populatlon of 22.9 percent.

Dlstrlct number twenty-two has aeven representatlves

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 26

and lncrudes wake county, and a deviation of .oz43l mlnus

and a black populatlon of 22.3 percent.

MS. HEEMN: Okay.

THE WITMSS: And dlstrlct rwenty-three
lncrudes all of cunberland county, a deviatlon of .oo851 and

a black population of 30.6 percent

And district trrenty-four has arr of sanpson county,

and it i.s -- has a deviation of .0137r and a black popula-

tion of 33.7 percent. One representatlve, by the way; one

rePresentatLve.

MS. IIEEMN: Okay.

THE WITMSS: Okay, and rhls ls Ehe one

where we -- we found I had made a small error, pulllng the

wront -- r keyed the wrong nr:nber on the llet. Ttrie should

have been ten lnstead of ftve, and then thls should be

0-5, whatever -- however five comes out. Itn wrltlng
upslde-down, an)n ay, but r*tratever, tt 8t111 dld not change

ny the overall ching r*ren spllttlng one and four. But

nr:mber twenty-fl,ve has a deviation of .00854 and a black
populatLon of 37.3 percent.

And district twenty-stx has four representatlves and

has a deviatLon of .01209 and a black populatlon of 28.7

Percent.

MS. IIEEMN: Okay.

THE IIITMSS: And tl,enty-seven ls all of



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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 27

Moore Cor.urty all by itself, whlch ie a devlatlon of .03040

and a black population of 2L.2 percent.

And twenty-etght has Ewo rePresentatlves and ln-

cludes all of Alamance Corutty, and ls a devlatlon of .01315

and a black populatlon of 19.3 percent.

District twenty-nlne includes part of Gullford and

Rocklngham County and hae a devlatlon of .02441 and a black

populatlon of 18.2 percent and two represencatives.

Okay, now, I dld not choose to spllt Gull.ford any

more. It could have been -- easily have been spllt out more

by flndlng the contlguLty of the various townshlps vlthln

here and pulling lt out and naking thls a -- a little dlf-

ferent sltuatlon. There ts a GLLner Townshlp wlth 531000,

and, palred wlth another, could pull two rePresentatlves out

of here very easlly, buE I dtd not choose to do that at thls

polnt. I di-dntt feel lt was ny -- ny place to do that at

this polnt ln tlme. I waa not lnstructed to look at any

part of that klnd of sttuatlon. But we 8t11I, wlth six

representatives, came up wlth a very close devlati.on of

.00285 and a black -- total black Percentage of 26.6 Per-

cent.

MR. I{ALLACE: If we can Just Xerox these

and agreed upon the recordr I think we can stoP golng

through these aE thls polnt ln tlme.

MS . IIEEMN: Yeah .

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MR. I.IALLACE: Is that ---
MS. HEEMN: --- That would be flne, l-f I

can Just fIlp through ---
THE WITMSS : -- - Go ahead , yeah .

MR. HORTON: Yeah, thatrs fine.
MS. HEEMN: Thatre all rlght.
MR. WALLACE: I Just think !,eetre....

MS. HEEMN: Okay. I know thls ls time-

consuning, but this Ls the first time wetve Been thle.
MR. WALI"ACE: It w111 go on your machine,

wonr t lt?
t{R. HORTON: I think it it probably

w111.

MR. WALLACE: If we can Just etipulate

that what wetll get in response to these lnterrogatorles, if
we come to Ehe concluslon that we dtd ask for the plans,

w111 be the Bame, then I think --'I thlnk we can dispense

wlth golng through thoee ---
MR. HORTON: --- Yeah.

MR. WALI"ACE: --- And Kathleen ---
MR. HORTON: --- Right. Jim, youtre golng

to get then. l{e arenrt golng Eo give you any trouble with

Lt. My only concern is the expense of duplicatlng them on

these machines and all.
MR. I{ALLACE: Ttrese?

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 29

MR. HORTON: Yeah.

MS. IIEEMN: Thle w111 Xerox, won't tt?
MR. WALLACE: It, h^ppy wlth a Xerox, HaE.

It doesntt appear that itrs ao long lt wontt go on aXerox.

MS. HEEMN: Yeah, becauee I
MS. SI'IILEY: --- Turn lt sldeways on a

legal sheet.

THE WITMSS: ltrls ls thi-s ls legal

paper, yeah.

MS. IIEEMN: Irve Xeroxedr you know,

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prlntoute, and tt -- they Xerox nlce and cleanr 80

MR. I{ALLACE: --- l,lonr t cost you but a

dolIar. It cant t be that ---
MR. HORTON: --- Ir11 b111 you. You all

bllled us for Ehat doggone tape. Dldnrt they, Tom?

MR. WORTH: Yeah.

MR. WALLACE: Whlch Eape?

It[R. HORTON: The computer tape they took.

MR. WALLAC}j: Did they blll you?

THE WITMSS: Yes, $S+; somethtng llke

that.
MS. IIEEMN: Irm sorry to be Bo persnick-

ety about thls, but I have this odd theory about thts law-

sult, that the crrD( of lt ls where Ehe linee are drannr 80

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 30

thatre what Irrn tryLng to ftgure out. you know, I real1y do

hate to dwell on details, but

MR. IdALLACE: --- You all want to let me

go ahead and ask -- I donrt have that many Dore questlons.

You want to ---
MS. HEEMN: I think thls ls thls

Ls fine. I even got through most of che lmportant part.
You know, the western part of the Btate no onet B -- everyone

Btarts fllpptng very quickly wtren they get to Ehe weetern

part of the Btate. Okay. Yeah, Ehatrs good.

THE IIITNESS: Ttrat should natch rhe end of
yours.

MS. HEEMN: Rlght .

THE WITNESS: Ttre Bame thlng.
MS. HEEMN: lrh-huh .

THE I{ITMSS: Werre uslng the same Btatis-
tics. Maybe my percentages nlght be off by a tenEh or aome-

thing in there, but thatrs about all.
MS . HEEMN: Rtght . Okay.

THE WITNESS: Because I ror:nded all of
ml.ne.

E)(AMINATION

BY MR. I{ALI"ACE TO MICHAEL S. MIC}IALEC:

Q. So what wetve done ls Just go through, at least Lo

part -- ln large part, a part of Che one reapportlonnent

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec

plan you drew, wlth no varLatione above prus or mlnue flve
percent?

A. Thatrs exactly rlght.

Q. And with no counEies eplit other than votlng Righre

Act counties?

A. The program would have told us lf there were any ln
error and what the dlstrlct nu-bers rrere thaE were ln error,
that exceeded Ehat by plus or mlnus flve percent. ThaE was

ny worklng tool. I just left lt ln the progrFm.

Q. A11 right, slr. Were you able to come up with any

aenate plans thac ---
A. --- Yeg.

Q. Were you able to come up with any Benate plans that
brought you in at that plus or minus five percent ---

A. --- Yes. ItlI give you a copy ---
Q. --- Or below and spllt no counties

A. --- th-huh (yes).

Q. --- Not covered by the Votlng Rlghts Act?

A. Correct, correct.

Q. How many plans was tt?
A. Just one.

Q. Just one?

A. Thatrs all I was atternpti.ng to do.

Q. Was that an origlnal plan, to your knowledge?

A. Orlglnal by ne? YeB. '

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 32

q. To you.

A. Yes, uh-hutr.

Q. You created the plan?

A. Uh-hutr (yes) .

Q. !{as any other plan that achLeved thoee obJectlves

brought to your attentlon ---
A. --- !r{9.

Q. --- Prlor to your drawlng the plan?

A. No. ltre only thlng that Irve seen all the way

through thls are the BtaEe plans.

Q. Yourve Been no other plans for houee or Benate

purposes?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Do you have che figures on the senate plan

with you?

A. Yes, rlght here.

MR. I.IALLACE: Do you want to go through

those, Kathyr oE do you Just want to Eake lf we can JusE

agree to g,et those avallable to us . I mean r w€ can do that
ln the calm of the evenlng. Ttrerets no reason to slt here

and do that.

Q. (Mr. I{al1ace) You say youtre vagueLy fanlllar wlth

the Voting Rlghts Act? I dont t want to tesrify for you,

but....
A. Well

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Mlchael S. Michalec Page 33

Q. --- Strike that, pleaee. Ilave you read the Votlog

Rlghts Act?

A. No, I have not.

Q. Have you read sectlon five of the Voting Rlghts Act?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you thlnk ---
A. --- l{ell, I I donrt remember rchat the number ts88.

lle went over lt. He dld read thaE to De whlle we were

slttlng here. Ham did read that to me.

Q. In your oplnLon, do you know anything of substance

about the Votlng Righte Act, other than the fact that c€E-

taln counties ln North Carolina nay be spllt for reappor-

tlonment purposes and certaln countles may not be split?
A. Other than the fact of the plus or mlnus flve per-

cent 1 oo.

Q. Okay. Let me ask you thls. Dtd you attenpt to draw

more than one plan that accomplished your obJectlves?

A. No, did not,.

Q. Let me ask you this, too. Were your objectives to
come in under plus or minus

A. --- Oh, absolutely.

Q. --- Flve percent?

A. Absolutely.

Q. Okay. You dld not attempt to draw but one house or

senaEe plan?

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 34

I a. Thatts correcE.
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I a. Is there anything that leads you ro believe that
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I plan ls any better than any other plan you could draw?
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I a. Ihat -- that I -- well, having been through rhe
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I exerclse oh, rrm sure wLth a IlttIe more work there could
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I be some otherr you know, plan presented that night be a
l'ss
| ltttle di.fferent. rtm not aure at thls polnt ln tlme, given
II the criterla r was glven, and glven r*rat r know about che
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I state of North caroIlna, rrm not aure that r could come up
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I with anythlng any -- any different or any ---
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I q - So you really dont t ---
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I a. --- Thatt s any better.
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Q. --- Know whether you could cone up with any other
plans or any other better plans or any other worse plane, ln
your oplnlon?

A. WeII, I certainly could come up wlth a loc more

worse plans, gure.

Q. Oh, thatrs kind of a ellly questton, isntt tt?
A. Yeah.

Q. All right. What crlterta dLd you follow?

A. Okay, basically I was told to only look at preparing

a plan for the houee and the senate where we dld not spllt
nonvoting rights applicable countles.

Q. lrh-hLrh.

A. That was the only crLterLa, and that was all I used.

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Michael S. MlchaLec Page 35

r have no knowledge -- r did not use any other crlEerlon at
all; Let rue put lt that way.

Q. E:<cept percentages?

A. t{e11, the plus or mlnus fLve percent. That -- that
because of, you know, what was ln Ehere and ntrat I was

told; thatr s correct

Q. A11 rlght. Are you aware of che guldelines or crl-
terla that rrere adopted by the general aesenbly ln tte reap-

portlonment efforts?
A. No.

Q. A11 rlght, Bir. So ln either covered or noncovered

countLes in North Carolina dlo you make any attenpt to avold

dllutlng the votlng strength of minority voters?

A. No, did not ---

Q. In any sense?

A. In any -- any aenae; no.

Q. A11 rtght, eir. Dld the figure fifti percent Eean

anythlng to you wlth respect to concentratlons of nlnorlty
voters ln distrlcte?

A. No, I did not look at anythlng.

Q. Did the figure fifty-one percent mean anything?

A. (!{ttness moved head from eide to slde)

Q. Did any percentage of black voters

A. --- Did not.

Q. --- Mean anythlng to you ln a dlstrict?

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A. Dld not.

Q. And even lf we to up to sixty-flve percent, thaE ---
A. I didnr t look at lt elther way.

Q. Dld that mean anything to you ln the covered

counties?

A. Dtd not Eean anything to me in the wtrole analyels

that I dld.

Q. In any county, covered or noncovered?

A. Thatrs correct..

Q. Is that correct?

A. Thatr e correct.

Q. All rlght, elr. Dld you attenpt to Bee to lt the

legislatlve dLstrlcte consisted of contlguous terrltory?
A. Absolutely, yes.

Q. So thatr s another crlterlon?
A. That was anoEher crLterlon.

Q. Were you coneciously following Ehat crlterlon?
A. Yes. Ttratrs what makes Lt more -- Eost dlfflcult;

not irnposslble, but difflcult.

Q. Did you attempt to make Ehose dLstricts as compact

as posslble?

A. Yes.

Q. So thatrs another crlterlon?
A. Right. We1l, lf you want to look at lt okay.

All right. That was

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Mlchael S. l'llchalec Page 37

Q. --- AI1 rlght.
A. --- That waa not gi.ven to me as a crlterla. Okay?

From -- ln ny dlrectlves

Q. --- Uh-huh.

A. --- When I was worklng wlth thle. That was a cri-
teria that I -- we used baslcally out of common 8ense.

Q. You were not at all aware of these reapportlonment

crlterla?
A. Which -- that and Ehe -- wlth che state?

Q. Ihe geireral assemblyts reapportlonnent crlterla ---
A. --- Oh; no.

Q. --- l{ere they brought to your attentlon 1n any

l::'".rr 
or were you lnformed trl any Eanner rhat rhey extsred

A. ___ [116.

Q. --- Or what they sald?

A. Oh, Itm sure we mentloned that there were Borne, buE

we dld not -- I dld not get lnvolved with then at all.

Q. You did not base your plans at all on thoee?

A. (Witness moved head from side to side)

Q. Except coLncidentally. Is that whaE ---
A. --- Except colncidentally.

Q. A11 rlght, ei.r, lf you would, please Irn golng to
backtrack ae llttle as poeslble. Wtrere are you fron?

A. Origlnally?

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 38

Q. Orlglnally.
A. Upstate New York.

q. And you moved to North Carollna when?

A. 1967.

Q. 1967. Have you traveled the Btate to any extent at
all ?

A. Not to really any extent except co being on the

coast at the beach and being in the mountalns and this klnd

of thlng.

Q. Have you had occaslon ---
A. I learned a lot durlng -- dolng thie, a lot Eore

than I

Q. --- So did I.

A. It I s very lnterestlng now. When thlngs llke l,Iarren

County comes up in Ehe nerf,s, I know where that ls nord, where

I didnr t know anyEhing about that before.

Q. WeIl, have you had occasion at all ro study the

hLstory of the etate?

A. No, no.

Q. You never studied the htstory of the scate?

A. (Witness moved head from side to slde)

Q. If I Bay anythlng to you about are you famlllar

wlth the geographlcal characterlstlcs of the state? Yourve

lndicated youtre aware that there are the beaches and the

mountains, and ---

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Mlchael S. Michalec Page 39

A. --- Thatts -- thatrs correct.

Q. Does your knowledge go any deeper than that about

the geography of the etare?

A. In wtrat way? I

Q. --- Well, I thlnk we have tdentifled the fact that
we all know Alberroarle sound enlsts, but are you generalry

on a county-to-colxrty basls fanlllar with the

A. --- No.

Q. Okay.

A. No. Ttre cor:ntles basically dontt -- donrt mean any-

thing to me from a geographical polnt of view.

Q. Okay. Do you ---
A. --- OnIy the general area.

Q. Are you at all farollLar with any polltlcaI concen-

trations tn Ehe Scate of North Carolina?

A. Just ln Forsyth County.

Q. Just ln Forsyth County?

A. (Witness moved head up and down)

Q. Yourve stated thaE you made no effort co accommodate

or -- I donr t wanE to testlfy for you.

A. A11 rlght.

Q. Correct me lf Irm wrong, but you did not ln any way

show advertence to minority concentraEions ---
A. --- No, I did not.

Q. --- IJhen you reapportloned. Dld you do so wlth

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Mlchael S. MLchalec Page 40

to any polltlcal partlee ---
--- We -- I dont t even have any -- any lnformatlon

reepect

A.

Q. --- You donr t know ---
A. --- About any -- about the repreaentatlon or the

voter concentratlon, lf you want to thlnk ln. those terme.

do not have any, except for Forsyth Cor-urty.

Q. All rlght, eLr. Did you conslder ar al1 the concept

of communiEies of interest throughout the State of North

Carolina when you reapportloned?

A. No, lt would have been very dlfflcult, eince I am

not that fanlllar wlth everything ln thls state. I juet
attempted to keep the areas aa srnall as possible, and, of
course, the contlgulty of the counties and the townehips

would -- I would hope would have provlded that klnd of sltu-
ation within the -- wlthln rhe distrlcts that were appor-

tioned. I could not an) dhere near guarantee that, though.

I have no -- no knowledge about that.

Q. All right, eir. Wellr you say youtre familiar with

Forsyth County wlth respect to polltlca1 concentratlona.

What do you know about the polltlcal concentratlons

of Forsyth Cor:nty?

A. Well, I know how -- approxlnately how -- how nany

voters there are here. I know from experience where the

heavlly Dernocratic vote from thls county w111 come from.

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 41

Q. Where is that?

A. East -- east Winston. I know basically eorne of the

ewing townships or preclncts wlthln the county. Other than

that, thatrs about all.

Q. Do you have any partlcular oplnlon about the polltl-
cal characterlstlcs of any of the cotrntles involved

excuse me, tornships involved ln thls litlgatlon?
A. Oh, the -- yee. I meanr you read -- lf you Just

read the papers you know enough about that.

Q. Let me ask you thls. Do you know whlch counties are

lnvolved ln thls lttlgatlon?
A. Which townships?

Q. t{hich cownships, excuse rre.

A. Belews Creek and Salem Chapel. Irm pretty 6ure

those are the two, yes.

MS. HEEMN: Kernersvllle?

THE WITNESS: WeIl, Kernersville, c,oo.

Q. (Mr. Wallace) Let roe read a Btatement to your lf I
cou1d, please, sir.

A. Okay.

Q. For the record, It, readLng paragraph five of che

reapportlonment criterla, which have been introduced lnto
the court.

Ttre paragraphs sayo: r'To the extent consLstent wlth
all of the above requirements, districts ehould be con-

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 42

structed ao as to recognlze Ehe Btatere hlstorlc communltles

and commonalltles of lnterest ylth respect to the inhabl-
tants and constltuencies wLthln such districts, provlded

such consideratione ehall not vlolate any of the prlnctples
listed in paragraphs one through four above.t'

Now, what wetve gone through i.n one through ln four

above are the questione Irve asked you abouE poIltlcal con-

centratlons, again, communitles of i.nterest, geographical

characterlstLcs ---
A. --- lJh-hutr (yes) .

Q. --- Of the state,
All right, slr.

w111 be done ln order to
tatn the lnterests that

Did you consider

possible voter confusion

reapportloned the state?

your plans.

and Ehe percentage deviatlons.
Paragraph ei.x says : tt . . . That thls
mlnimize voter confuslon and maln-

were set out, above.rt

the element of voter confuslon or

in 8ny rray whatsoever when you

And by that I mean when you drew

A. t{e11, in respect to keeping the areas -- keeplng ag

many countles tntact as possible, Ehe people of the stete

are used to votlng ln thelr county entities, and Eo pull aB

few townships out of one county to Join another colxrty ag

as posslble -- outside of chaE, and keeplng wtthln the other

guldelines abover Do, I dld not use any -- any other crl-
terla about voter confusion.

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Mlchael S. MLchalec Page 43

q. Okay. IJith respect to Ehe houee or eenate?

A. With -- wlth -- thatf s rlght. Ttratrs correct.

Q. In any plan?

A. (No response)

Q. l{e have been testifying or you have been testlfying
wLth respect to both plans, ln effect?

A. Right.

Q. All rlght, sir. Are you farollLar wlth rhe affldavlr
of 8111 Hale of June 14th, L982, whlch was lntroduced to the

court or flled wlth Ehe court, wlth respect Eo the remand

lssue?

MR. HORTON: I donrt know that I have

that.

TTIE WITMSS: No.

MR. HORTON: May I look ar 1r?

MR. WALLACE: I{e11, if you didnrt ger iE,
naybe you canrE respond to lt.

If you keep going down theret s one by Dan Long, and

following lt
MR. HORTON: --- Yeah.

MR. WALI"ACE: What lt ls, ltra the two

affldavits that went ln in response to your notlon to

remand.

MR. HORTON: Oh, yeah. Tttatts flne. If
youtd like, you can put them as exhtbits to thls depoeitlon.

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Michael S. Michalec Page 44

MR. WALLACE: Thatrs flne. For thaE

matter -- well, I stllI donrt know exactly what wetre golng

to do wlth these. Do you want to go ahead and mark them as

exhibits and }etrs worry about ---
MR. HORTON: --- Dupllcatlng then?

I,lR. WALI"ACE: Yeah. You want to do that?

A11 right, letts mark -- which ls your house

THE I{ITNESS: --- Thls ls the rhls ls
the house, here.

' MR. WALI"ACE: A11 right, elr. And rhls
we'd mark lt....

MS. HEEMN: l{hy dont t we refer to thls as

MR. WALI"ACE: --- Defendantrs ---
MS. IIEEMN: --- Michalec House Plan, and

wet 1l nark 1t as Exhlblt A.

(Off-record discusslon)

[Defendantre Exhtblt 1 was
narked for the_ purpose of
identlficacionl

THE WITMSS: Okay. And then thls is the

senate.

MS. HEEMN: That would be 2.

[Defendantts B(hibit 2 wae
marked for the purpbee of
ldentlftcatlon] -

MR. WALI"ACE: Oh, the crtterla. I Bee no

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 45

Slnce

good

to put the crlteria ln tf ltts no difference to you.

MR. HORTON: Well, you can lf youtd like.
lt was referred Eo in Ehe depoeltlon tt nlght be a

idea.

I{R. WALLACE: Uh-hutr.

I{R. HORTON: Letts put that tn; thoae two

affidavits.

MR. WALLACE: If you would, please, mark

thls as -- why dontt we go ahead and make these Defendantrs

Exhlbits 1, 2, and 3.

(Off-record discussion)

[tlefendanrrB Exhlblts 3 and 4

3?'ioSiII?i"::I":T" PurPose

Q. (Mr. Wallace) A11 rlght, str. Let ne hand you

Defendantr s Exhiblt Number 4, and ask you to review thls
document.

IWltness examlned document]

A. Okay.

Q. A11 right, slr. Look at paragraph elghc of that, lf
you would, please, sir, the Hale affi-davlt.

A. th-huh (yes).

Q. Let me ask you lf -- well, letre donrt look at para-

graph eight right nor{. Letrs do thls flrst. And I donrt
know lf you have with you the flgures to refer to that wlll
allow you to answer these questlons or not. Let ne Just ask



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Michael S. Michalec Page 46

thern ---
A. --- Okay.

Q. --- For a few ninutes and Bee lf you do know.

Do you know whether, when you dld your computatlons,

you proceeded on the assumptlon that the populatlon of
Guilford County in 1.980 was 3L7 rl54?

A. Yes.

Q. You recall that?

A. I did pursue that, yes.

Q. A11 rlghc, elr. Do you agree Ehat the ideal of the

mathematlcally equal distrlcts ln the Btate ehould contaln,

in the house of representatives ideally -- 491015 people?

A. Thatr e correct.

Q. In your work did you determlne that Gullford County

rraa enEltled to aeven house representativee?

A. I am not aure that -- if I would divlde that out, I
could probably -- you know, I could figure that out, but

thatrs correct -- Dor thatre not correct. IE doesnrt

faII withLn that -- that range of numbers. Guilford Cor:nty

Q. --- Do you have Eoo few?

A. --- Would have to be spllt. Too few.

Q. Too few people?

A. Too few people; thatts correct.

Q. A11 rlght. Would you aBree that idealIy, uslng

ez -slc rv-s a

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491015 as our figure, the ldeal flgure would be 3431105 for
Gullford Cor.rrty?

A. Thatr s correct.
q. That means a shortage of alnost 261000 people. IB

that correct?

A. To to run it at exactly the nunber ---

Q. --- To hit the ldeal representati.on ---

A.

Q.

A.

--- Thatr s correcE.

--- Percentages

--- Uh-huh (yes).

Q. --- For Gullford County?

A. Thatt s correct.

Q. A11 rlght, elr, do you agree that the nunbere belng

as they are wlth the aeven percent -- oh, excuse tae, or wlth

aeventeen -- strlke that -- wlth the aeven representatlveg

from Gullford County, that thaE leaves us with a mlnus 7.56

percent devlation?

A. Ttrat could be. I would trave to divide that out.

Q. Can you do that?

A. Thatts correct. 7.56.

Q. All rlght, sLr. Do you agree that ln order to brlng

that relatLve devlation below flve percent yourre goLng to

have to conbine Ehe populatlone of portions of oEher coul-

tles wlth the populatlon -- or aE least one other county

wlth the populatlon of Guilford County?

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 48

A. No, I dontt agree wlth that. I think you can -- you

can spltt Forsyth -- or spllt Guilford county and comblne 1t

wlth other countles, the other way. Yourve tarked about

brlnging other countLes lnto Gullford. rrn talking about

epltttlng Gullford and puttlng lt rrith orher countles.

Q. Do you agree that Gullford County can -- the counEy

llne integrlty cannot be adhered to in Gullford county?

A. Thatrs correct.

Q. And come up wlth any better than a mlnus 7.56

A. --- That I s correct, utr-huh.

Q. --- Devlation. Is that correct?

A. (No responee)

Q. So the county lines, ln effecc, have to be fractured
eLther way for the sake of the numbere?

A. For the sake of the of coruplying with the Votlng

Rights Act of plus-or-mlnus -- with plus-or-mlnus flve per-

cent, thatr s correct.

Q. The plus-or-mlnus ftve percent consideratlons are a
votlng rights consideration to you?

A. Yeg.

Q. Do you mean Votlng Rlghts Act?

A. Yes.

MR. HORTON: Wel1, It, going to obJect to
that. Yourre askLng for legal conclusions, and here tes-
ttfled that he ls nor fanillar wlth the Voting Rlghts Act,

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other than Just having portlons of lt read Eo hlm.

Q. (Mr. Wallace) A11 rlght, sir. Utren you dLd your

calculatlons, dld you know that at that -- welr, ret me aek

you this.

when did you begln work on these plans? Ttre house

and Benate plans.

A. Sonetlme ln August.

Q. Sometlme Ln August. And you conpleEed then wtren?

A. About a week ago; week and a half ago.

Q. You coropleted the plans a week ago?

A. t h-huh (yes) .

Q. Are you arrare at this polnt that the Unlted Stateg

attorney general obJected to the dllutLon of nlnority votlng
strength in Bertie, Gates, hIlfax, Hertford, Martln, and

Northampton countles prlor to the last reapportlonment plan?

A. No.

Q. You were never anrare of that?

A. (Witness moved head from slde to slde)

Q. Let me read rhrough one paragraph of che Hale affi-
davit, if you would, please, elr, and Just tell me whether

you ag,ree or disagree wlth each of these statements, and I
donrt know whether theytre going to fall wlthrn the parane-

ters of what you dld or not.

Flrst, lf -- (quote) lf ln order ro bring rhe popu-

latlon figures for the Gullford dietrtcts into line with the

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conrnltteers relative deviation crl.terion Iend quoteJ -- you

can read along with ne Lf yourd llke. Irm 1n paragraph

elght. It may make 1t a llttIe easler.

Okay, beglnnlng agaln, ttlf ln order to brlng the

popuratlon flgures for the Gullford dietrLcts lnto llne with
the commltteer s relatlve devlatlon crlterlon., the general

asserobly had transferred townshlps solely from Rocklnghan

County lnto the Gullford dlstrlct, lt would have been

necessary to transfer certain caswell cor:nty townshlp8 to
the dlstrLct coroprislng Alaroance County and the remalnder of
Rocklngham County.rl

Are you able to express an opinion on the correct-
nesa of that Btatement, slr?

A. I donrt thlnk thatrs correcE. I

Q. --- Can you explaLn your answer?

A. I did not do that ln the manner ln ntrich Ehey have

instructed that it be done here in thls paragraph.

Q. In what manner have you done lt?
A. I conbined Caswell and Orange Counties to conprlse

one house distrlct, and I combined certaln townshipe of
Gullford and Rocklngham Cor.urty to -- to put into another

town-- or another dlstrlct, and also Alamance County wae

left all by ltself.

Q. All rlght, slr. Ttre next statement ln the paragraph

ls, ttBecause of the heavy concentratlon of black populatlon

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ln Caswell County, this would have firrther dlluted the bleck

votlng Btrength ln the new 22nd dlstrlct, and also wouLd

have neceseltated firrther transfers of townshlps lnto the

22nd dietrlct from other contiguous counties ln order to

conply with the relative deviatlon crlterlon of the com-

ml-ttee . rl

Do you have any opinion as co the truth of chat

statement?

A. No.

Q. You do not?

A. (Witness moved head from eide to etde)

Q. All rlght, slr. Were you ever arrare thac there was

a heavy black populatlon ln Caswell Cor.urty?

A. No, I was not.

Q. A11 rlght, eir. And wlth resPect to the senate,

have you determlned ntrat the ldeal dtstrtct should contaln?

A. 117r635 voters.

Q. A11 rlght. And you ---

A. --- Or, excuse tne, population.

Q. --- Okay, and you entltled ---

A. --- Because you cantt ---

Q. --- Gullford County -- or you determlned Guilford

County to be entlEled to how many senators?

A. Let me check ny -- they are ehort of -- letrs Beet

one, two, three -- short of three.

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Q. Ihey are short of three. So ln order to entltle
them ldeally to threer you would have to, agaln, fracture
county lines in Guilford County?

A. Thatr s correct.

Q. And that ls ntrat you dld when you drew the plan?

A. Ttratrs correct

Q. A11 right, slr. Let me get Ehis etralght absolurely

lnto the record.

When you fractured the Gullford Cor:nty li.nesr you

were, ln effect, were you not, advertent only to nrrmlsig of
peopLe?

A. That is correct.
MS. HEEMN: Mr. Horton, is lt okay lf I

just ask a few questlons, and then I thlnk that w111 be tt?
Do you nlnd rny double-tearolng the wltness?

MR. HORTON: That w111 be all rlght.

MS. HEEMN: Thank you. Just a couple

thlngs. e

H(AMINATION

BY MS. HEEMN TO MICHAEL S. MIC}IALEC:

Q. Mr. Michalec, when you were formulatlng these plans,

dld you ever corupute or lncorporate lnto your data votlng

age populatlon?

A. No.

Q. When you were forroulatlng your plan, did you have

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I any knowledge of r*here the lncumbent ---
I

I Ar --- No.
I

I Q. --- Leglslators llved?
I

I A. (No response)
I

I a. Mr. Michalec, have you ever studLed or looked at or
II been famllLar wlth Ln any way the reapportlonnent plane of
I'JE
I any other state?
I

I A. No.
I

I Q. Do you have any other baels or knowledge as to rstrat
I

I the population devLatlon or populatlon varlances are in
I

other Btates?

A. No, I do not.

Q. In your opinlon, is a Btate leglelatlve reapportlon-

ment plan of the type with r*trich wetre dealing, ls a popula-

tion deviation of -- let me strlke that for a Becond.

What are the overall devlation, from hlghest to
lowest, ln your plan?

A. I donr t have any ldea exact-- I donr E have thoee

figures rre went through.

q. --- Can you sort of ---
A. Itrs

Q. --- Not summarlze, but, you know....

A. We can do lt by Just gotng through ---
MR. HORTON: --- Why dontt you let hln

refresh hls recollection.

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MS. HEEMN: Okay, rhat would be fine.
THE WITMSS : Okay.

MR. HORTON: Off the record Juet " 
ror".ra.

(Of f- record discusslon)

MS. HEEMN: Back on record.

THE [{ITMSS: In the houee. .we had a range

of a minus 4.957 percent to a plus 4.454 percent.

Q. (Ms. Heenan) And how about the senate?

A. In the Benate we had a minus 4.974 percent to a plue

4.800 percent.

Q. Now, Mr. Michalec, ln your oplnLon, would you 8ay

Lt|s a fair Btatement to say that the more oEher crlterla
one consLders in addltion to the population equality, the

more factors you would try to lncorporate lnto your plan,
the nore difflcult lt would be to accommodste -- or to keep

the deviatlons if you try to accommodate other things,
does lt -- would you say it geEs more dlfflcult ---

A. --- Yes.

Q. --- To keep the populatlon down?

A. Sure.

Q. ReturnLng Eo the geneels of this plan that we have

ln front of us rtght nor{, nor{, thls ls the only plan youtve

drawn?

A. Thatr s correct.
q. Were there other plans in process that were refined

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or flne-tuned that led to thie?

A. Oh, there would have to be.

Q. Okay. Could you explaln that a Ilttle blt for ne?

r rn probably not aa famlllar wLth the computer process as r
should be.

A. I.IeIl, the way that you work Ehrough thls ktnd of a

situation le you begLn to lay out a pran, and then r wourd

try and let the computer telI ne wtrether that plan was golng

to fall wlthin the establlshed criterla or not. And if lt
did not, lt would report back to me where the deviatlons

were, and we would begln to work and try to work Ehose dev-

iatlons out wlthout causlng too much of a rlpple effect fron
there on out.

Q. Dld you ever actually draw a nap?

A. No.

Q. So you ueed the cenaus data and ---
A. --- And the rnap that the state provlded us with.

Thls map.

Q. So you ---
A. --- Which has the populatlon by countles ---
Q. --- Right.

A. --- Vislbly on lt.

Q. And by townshlps?

A. Plus you nade Ehe -- and by townshtps, yes.

Q. So you bullt the plan from the Btatlstlcs?

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A. llh-huh (yes) .

Q. And not on a map and then ---
A. --- No. ThatrB correct. Ttratts correct. I used

two different maps. r used one that -- where r had the

voting rights counELes underrLned tn red, and lt gave the

total population for each county, and I used. that aa a
magter, and Ehen this as a worktng tool, where we had alr
the lndividual townshlps.

Q. When you drew this plan, did you have any lnfor-
matlon available to you as to paet voting patterne or

Practlces?
A. No.

Q. Maybe lt would be easier lf r asked you to flnd thls
for me.

Can you tell ne wtraE distrtct nr:rnber ls Cunberland

County on your house plan?

A. Itrs on here. Cumberland County ts r:nder 23.

Q. Okay. Mr. Michalec, do you have any opinion as to
whether or not your confi.guratlon of a flve-member dLetrlct
ln Cumberland Corrnty adequately allows black voters an

opportuntty to elect ---
A. I have no opinLon.

Q. You dld testlfy earller that you began in the

eastern part of the staEe ln the nr.rnberLng?

A. No. Only ln the respect that I took the flnlshed

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plan and renunbered lE from that way back.

Q. Oh, okay.

A. I did not Btart ln Ehe eastern part of the state to

reapportLon.

Q. Where dld you begln your reapporElonlng?

A. Wlth the largest populatlon countles. flrst.

Q. Okay. And those would be? Do you remember offtrand?

A. MecklenburB, Forsyth, Wake, GuLlford; looklng at

those first.

Q. Now, you say you looked at thoee flrst. Dld you

draw or construct distrtcts i.n each of those placee?

A. ThaErs a llttle hard to eay ntrether I really d1d or

I dldnrt, because as thlngs work out, lt takes several

iterations through the data to determine rihether or not you

have the rlght populatlon to fall wlthin the percentages

the guidellnes.

To be honest wlth your I realIy donrt remember. I

-- whether or not rre actually apportioned some out or not,.

I thlnk the flrst look was to look at thoee countles, I

guess, to aee lf they would flt wlthln -- withLn the frame-

work of che nultl-nenbered districte, and Ery that, and then

go through the other counties and see whaE would work out.

But ltr s a matter of -- ltr s all lost ln the tech-

nLque. It --1t -- I realIy, I guess, cantt say Ehat I '

started aLl the tlme tn the sarne place, okay? Or that each

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tlne I took only Ehe largest counti.es. I took that aB my

flrst look at Ehe -- look at lt, but I nay have dlscarded

that very ear1y. I really donr t remember.

The way the whole thing was developed, Lt was deve-

loped over a perlod of tfune, and I dld not epend concen-

trated tlme on the thlng. I cantt -- you hgr, I am self-

ernployed, and I canrt afford to MLckey Mouse around wlth

thls foreverr you know, Ilke a forty- or slxty-hour weekr 8o

it was hard Eo say. I{e would I would work away at lt and

then come back, and then work away at lt and colue back at

lt, ao itrs a little hard to aay, exactly.

But I dld not do what they aPParently dld, whlch was

to starE aE the eastern part of the state and move west. I

did not do that. I'm not sure at what polnt I went to the

eastern part of the state or whatever.

There are some troublesome countles ln thle Etate

from a statistlcal polnt of view, and thoee were the oneg

thac took most of the wrestllng around Co deternine nhat to

do wlth them. You know, again, Ehe only crlterla -- the

crlterla I had was Eo see lf iE was possible to do tt.

Q. Tkris probably w111 ny last questlon. Maybe wer1l

mark thls. I have here the letter from the Department of

Justice to Mr. Brock, dated the 30th of Novenber 1981.

MS. IIEETIAN: And letre mark thle Defenee

Exhtbit, whatever wetre oo.

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Mlchael S. Michalec Page 59

[DefendantrB ExhlblE 5 was
marked for the purPooe of
ldentlflcatlonl

(Off-record dlecusslon)

Q. (us. Heenan) I.{r. Michalec, Ir11 ahow you Defen-

dantrs Er(hlblt 5 and ask you to read through that. l TtIe

flrsE couple paragraphs are the Eoat Pertlnentr buC ltre not

that long ao you may want to read through the r*ro1e thlng.

IVlltnees examlned docr:ment]

Q. Have you seen that leEter before or ---

A. --- lifg .

Q. --- Had an opportunltY Eo read lt?

A. (No responee)

Q. Dld you know that lt exlstedr oE a conmunlcatlon

conveylng that lnformation fron the Departnent of Justlce to

the state exlsted?

A. From newspapers, thatrs all. Just know wtrat they

\rere golng through down there, yeah. Thatrs rlght.

Q. Do you have an oplnion ae to ntrat ls meant by

deminimls?

A. No.

Q. Do you have an oplnlon as to wtrat ls neant by

rational state pollcy ln the context of redlstrlcting?

MR. HORTON: lilell, may I obJect to th.e

forn of Ehese questlons, because youtre asking an oplnlon of

an area that he is not quallfted tn and hasnrt purported to

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be quallfted ln.
THE WITMSS: No, I reaIly donrt have any

opinlon at alle no.

MS. HEEMN: Okay. I have no firrther
questlons.

MR. WALLACE: Do you have anlrthlng you

want to aek?

, MS. SI'IILEY: Why dont t we take a flve-
trinute break and Just and calk for ---

MR. WALLACE: --- Do you nlnd lf we do

that?

MR. HORTON: Not aE all.
Igrief recess]

Q. (Ms. Heenan) Ird llke to ask one partlcular quee-

tion. Norr, I dontt mean to be flshlng; this ls to satisfy
my curloslty. Now, lf I nlsstate your testlmony, I feel
sure that you w111 correct, me, ao leE me venture thls.

You sald that your crlterlon or at least the over-

riding concern was populatlon equaliEy, and thatr e'lihat

guided you ln bullding thie plan?

A. Thatrs correct.

Q. Okay. Now, I would asolxne that there are lnetances

where you would have more than one cholce ln rtrat to hitch
on to ln order to equalize the populatlon in a county uhere

theret B a Bhortager oE where you separated townshlps from a



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county by necesslty, and you have to hook them on eomerdtrere

e1se. Ttlere would ordlnarily be more than one optlon.
A. No, thatte not really true. If you look aE the con-

tlgulty of 'the countles r you -- you have to plck those ntrich

are contlguous to the next county -- the townshlps that are

contlguous to the next county

You really donrt have as matter of fact, there
are Bome counties ln the Btate Ehat you really -- you cantt
spllt. I mean, those there are three or four or flve blg
townshlps, and ltts very dlfflcult to spltt then, because

they Just send the next dlstrlct over, and very dlffi-
cultr Bo you have to look ln other dlrections.

If you were to look at the dlrectlon with ntrlch

yourre going to go, y€sr but by the time you Bet to -- have

to spllt a county, youtve already pretty much establlshed

your dlrectlon. Yourve decided wtrlch groups of cor:ntles or

whlch county Ls pretty rnuch golng to stand ln a -- on tte
oh,Tt.

Q. l{e11, what lnfluenced your cholce as to rfrrich coun-

tles would ---
A. --- Uould be ---

Q. --- Stay together and r*trLch would stand on lts own?

A. Strictly the way ln whlch the plan was put together,
rneanlng that there -- the crLteria was that lf I had to --
first of all, I trled not to spllt any county. All rlght?

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And what r was conlng to very fast was very large dlstrlcte
too large dLstrLcts, and we were golng to have to nake

spllts, even -- you know, ln the beglnnlng, even if you

ended up spllttlng -- letrs see, r sprlt thlrteen corxltleg
on the scate for the house. Ttrey split twenty-four.

Orlginally I was trying to get It --, get lt down to
a littre smaller group of cotrrtles that would be spllt, and

lt just wasnrt posslbre without lncreastng the slze of the

distrlcts. And Bo they became -- in ny Judgnentr 8t that
polnt ln.tlme they became too large -- geographicarly too
Iarge.

So wtrat happens ls that ntren you work -- 1f you --
lf you looked only at one way of golng acroas the state,
letrs say from east to west, then youtre -- you are -- you

may have Bome choices. However, that's not the way the plan

wes put together.

It was put together in varlous Bectlons and tn
lettlng those sectlons meet together. And then nhen we ran

lnto a problem, I mlght have had to move out 1n one dlrec-
tion or another dlrectlon, whlchever directlon really rooked

feaslble. So you cantt reaIly Bay EhaE there was always

more than one cholce. That depends on where you were at
that tlme. Okay?

Q. Was there ever more than one choLce?

A. No. Not in my oplnion, an) day, the way the plan was

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put together. Not f:om the baels from where I startede oo.

Okay?

MS. HEEMN: I thtnk thatte lt.

MR. I{ALLACE: Irve got JuBt a few more.

(Off-record dlscusslon)

E)(AMINATION

BY MR. WALI.ACE TO MICHAEL S. MIC}IALEC:

Q. Let me ask you thle, please, slr. AB you drew the

plans, dld you have a number of senators or representatlves

representing a glven dlstrlct, over rshlch you dld noE want

to go?.

MR. HORTON: I donr t understand the quee-

tion.
MR. I{ALLACE: All right. What Irn asklng

hlm is when he drew rnultl-member distrlctB, r{as there to hin

what he considered to be an unacceptable nr:mber of represen-

tatlves or aenators from any glven dlstrlct that he drew?

In other words, at what point, if at any polntr dld

they become unacceptably large for hfun ln terms of the num-

bers of representattvea or aenators coming to Ra1e18h?

THE $JITMSS: No. It was more the total

geographlc area than lt was the nr:mber of senaEoEs. You can

Bee that we dld leave Mecklenburg Cor:nty Lntact wlth elght

representatlves, and because the crlterLa was not to epllt a

non-Votlng Rlghts AcE ---

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Mlchael S. Mlehalec Page 64

MR. UALLACE: --- Rlght, rtght.

TttE WITMSS: --- Appllcable county, tleck-

lenburg would have had to sEay lntact- However, ltre not

that large a geographlc area.

Q. (Mr. Ilallace) A11 rlght. I)o you know what county

or what dlstrlct that encompasses the naJorlty of the PoPu-

latlon of a county ls represented by the moet aenatorat ln

your plan?

A. Wellr Bo over that agaln, s1owlY.

Q. I nay have to -- do you know r*trat counEy, lf you

etayed wlthin colxlty boundari.es, or r*tat dtstrlct that

encompasses the naJorlty of the populatlon of a county that

eends the nost aenators to the general assenbly, under your

plan?

A. Itd have to look at look at the plan to aee lf I

could flnd that out.

Q. WeII, to do that, Iou would have to go through your

computer printoute Ehat wetve ---

A. --- Thatrs right.

Q. Introduced as E:<hiblts 1 and 2

A. --- Thatr s correct.

Q. --- And thac lnformation ls contalned.

A. --- llaybe I ought to say somethlng. Maybe youtve

Just never dealt wlth people llke me before, but I forget

all the data that I ever worked wlth. I mean, I work wlth

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 65

financlal BtateEents wlth ny cllents alL the tlme, and you

have a hablt of always forgetting that on purpose, whlch le

why I cant t rememb€r ---

Q. I thlnk ltrs pretty adnlrable how much you're

rememberirg, for Ehe record. I Just....
A. I remember the crlterla alwaysr oE the parameters,

and I ntght remember certaln partlcular aspects of prograns

or systems ln general, but the data that operates wlthln

thoee is generally lost.
q. Dld you make eny attempt to draw nultl-member as

oppoeed Eo slngle-member dlstrlcts, or slngle-member ag

opposed to multl-member, or dld it natEer to you at all?

A. I trled to ---

Q. --- Staylng withln county llnes.
A. Staylng withln corxlty llnee as much as poeslble,

to draw slngle-nember as much as posslble.

Q. l{try dtd you do that?

A. I Juet felt that lt thatr s Just ny partlcular

Judgnent on whecher or not -- Ehat just made more oense.

Q. Why dld lt make more aense to you?

A. Because of the total generally the Eotal geo-

graphlc area lnvolved.

Q. WeLl, how dld single-rnember dietrlcts relate to the

totaL geographlcal area involved?

A. If you take -- e8peclally ln Ehe western part of the

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 66

Btate, where you take all of the countles dosn tn the moun-

talns and you make -- they all baslcally -- you can take

that whole plece of the booE down there and take all of then

together and make two -- two members or two aenatorsr oE

four members, this klnd of thlng.

a. Uh-hutr

A. But itrs a very wide geographic area, and I tended

not to do that.

Q. So you employed ln your reapportionment plans a Pre-

ference for slngle-nember dlstrtcts?

A. t{Lthout spllttlng county lines, yes.

Q. A11 right, Bir.
A. Okay.

Q. Are you alrare of the percentage of registered votere

ln the state who are reglstered as Republlcans?

A. No, only ln Forsyth County.

Q. OnIy ln Forsyth County. You do know the nunber of

regletered Republlcans and Democrats ln Forsyth County?

A. Approxirnately, yes.

Q. All righE. Have you ever made any attemPt to deter-

mlne what effect the slngle-member dlstrictlng -- these

slngle-member distrlcting or Forsyth Corurty would have ln

terms of the Republican ParEyr e effort to elect Eenators or

representatives to the general assernbly?

A. No.

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 67

Q. Are you a reglstered voter?

A. YeB.

Q. And how are you regletered?

A. Irm a regletered Republican.

Q. Okay. Have you ever done that wlth respect to any

part of the state?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever heard from any source that ln anyonet e

opinlon the Republtcan Party could derlve benefLt from the

existence of single-nember dLstricte in the noncovered

netropolltan areas of the state?

A. No, Irve never ---

a. --- You have never heard that?

A. Irve never heard thatl DO.

Q. Has thaE ever lndependently occurred Eo you?

A. No, because Irve Just to be honest wlth your

donr t have the tlme to think about that klnd of thing.
MR. WALLACE: I have no further questions.

MS. IIEEMN: I have no further questLons.

MR. HORTON: Let me ask Just one or two,

then.

MR. WALLACE: Do you wanc to ask anythlng?

MS. SIIILEY: I was Just curlous . . . .

EXAI.{INATION

BY MS. SMILEY TO MICHAEL S. MIC}IALEC:

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 68

Q. Where else was too large geographically, and

speclflcally, did you flnd any place ln the east that ya8 --
when you Bay whacrs too large geographlcally, could lrou

ldentlfy Bome other areas

A. --- tJell

Q. --- And gLve us a llttle more ---

A. If you take an exarnple of thelr dlstrlct number

2 I thlnk thatr e 2 rlght -- ln the eastern part of the

Btate, where lt covers Currituck, Canden, Pasquotank, Per-

qulmans, .Chowan, Washlngton, \rrreIl, and Dare, thaEtB an

awful big area.

If I were runnlng for publlc offlce down there, I
would flnd it awfully difffcult to cover all of that par-

ticular general arear oE to represent -- I guess represent

those people.

Therer s another -- wheret s the therer a one tn the

senate, too. TtreretB a very, very large aenate dlstrlct

here. Letrs see -- what -- excuse E€r here lt ls. Here lt

le. Here lt ls here.

In the senate, district number 1, aleo ln the

eastern part of the Btate, goes all the way down to Panllco

from CurrLtuck. Thatrs an awful, awful large area, at least

to me, Just looking at the rDap.

And out Ln the hrestern part of the Btate, thelr --
thelr dlstrlct number 29 ln the Benate covers an awful large

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 69

erea for -- wlth two repreeentatlvee. Ttratre awful motll-

talnous country, too.

And I rm not aure -- I rve not been donn tn that

eastern part of the state down there, but I donrt know how

many roads are down there, but lt would be awful hard to get

acro8s some of that....

MR. HORTON: You need ferrLes.

THE WITNESS: Yeah, across the Bound.

Q. (Ms. Smlley) Oh, ao ln the east dld you look at

brldge access and

A. --- Did not.

Q. --- Ae for contlnulty contlgulty ---

A. --- Dld not. Contlgulty?

Q. Yeah, contlgulty.
A. No, I dtd not. I have trouble with that worde too.

No, I dld not.

Q. And so mostly, in terms of too blg geographically'

youtre talklng about the far east and the far west?

A. Ttratts -- wel1, thatrs correct. Some ln the --

toward the center of the state, but there are less ln the

center of the staEe, I thlnk, EhaE ---

Q. --- l,Ihere in the center? l{ould you ldentlfy nhere

you ended up wlth what you felt were too blg and had to do

Bonethlng? /

A. Well, I donrt remember. I would really have to....

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 70

Q. Would Lt have been covered corrnties ln the north-
eastern sectlon or tn the eastern Bectlon ---

A. --- No, most of then were ln the south, aouth

central.

Q. South and south central?

A. (wltness moved head up and down)

MS. SIIIILEY: Thatt e all. I was Just.. . .
MR. WALLACE: Are you through?

MS. HEEMN: lIh-hutr.

E)(AMINATION

BY MR. HORTON TO MICHAEL S. MICIIALEC:

a. Mr. Michalec, Iet me ask jusE one or two questlons.

They nay be redundant ln the sense, ln effect, they nay have

been asked before, but I would like to Bort of encapsulate

your testlmony lf re may.

FLrst, throughout your deposltton you have used

thelr map or thelr plan, and lt1l ask you, just for the

record, when you refer to thelr plan, do you mean the offl-
cial plan adopted by Ehe general assenbly that ls supposedly

in effect now?

A. Yee, I do, uh-hutr.

Q. A11 rlghE. And when, of couraer you said your plan

or our planr you meant the one that you yourself prepared?
' A. RLght.

Q. Where dld you obtatn the data that you ueed ln

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Mlchael S. Hichalec Page 71

rnaklng your calculatlons and comlng up wlth yorrr plane Mr.

Mlchalec?

A. It came from the State of North Carollna, the offlce

of legislatlve services. I guess thatrs wtlere 1t calne from.

They provlded us wlth a magnetic taPer comPuter readable

form, of the census data

Q. And did you take Ehat magnetlc tape and run lt off

and put lt lnto a form that you could use?

A. Yes . Yes, I dld.

Q. [Jas any of the data changed in this process?

A. No, fIO.

Q. Did you use in every event Ehe same data that you

rrrere advised the state had used?

A. Yes.

Q. What instructions were given you by me when I asked

you to asslst ln thls matter?

A. Number one was to not spllt -- to see lf it could be

done without splitting non-Voting Rights Act applicable

counties. Ttratts baslcally the only criterla. Everythlng

else was judgmental on mY ParE.

Q. A11 right. And utrat results did you achieve wtren

you attempted to redistrict the state wlth respecE to these

instructions?

A. We were auccessful withln the -- within the realm of

the parameters of non-voting rights countles not belng epllE

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 72

and the plus-or-mlnus flve percent ntrlch ls dlctated ln both

plans.

Q. A11 rlght. Now, are you saylng, then, that you have

demonstrated in your plan that the Btate can be redlecricted

wlthout spllttlng non-votlng rights cotmtles?

A. Yes.

Q. Dld you attempc to eubdlvlde counties, multl-aeaE

countles?

A. No, I dld not. No, I dtd not.

Q. Thls ls not to ssyr I gather, Mr. Michalec, that

they could not be spllt?

A. No, thatrs Erue. Thatrs true. They could be spIlt.

I -- we had already Ealked about a sectlon of Gr:llford

County that was that Ehere was a poeslbillty for.

Q. Now, from the standpolnt of sfuople computer elcPer-

ience and logtc or r*tatever, how difflcult a comPuEer task

did this present?

A. We1I, I dld not use the comPuter to actually make

the redlstricting plan. What we dld was to formulate the

redlstrlctlng plan and use Ehe comPucer to Prove whether we

were rlght or wrongr oE to gLve us tnterlm evaluatlone of

the plan that we that lre lrere dolng.

We did not use -- one of the problems that you have

ls the contigulty of countlee and townehi.ps. Your d have to

have all that programmed into the comPuter, and I really

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 73

dldnrt have the tlme to go through and do all that.

Q. llhen you lnspected the Btatere plan, dld you con-.

clude whether they had cranked Lnto their plan contlguLty

data?

A. No, I as far as I know, what -- wlth the prograrns

thet I looked at, they dld not.

Q. Cou1d you teIl, looking at thelr program, nhether

they had cranked into it any raclal dlluElon factors?

A. As far as I know, they did not.

Q. Dld they crank ln any economic factors?

A. No.

Q. Did they crank ln any geotraphlc factors?

A. No, not as far as I know. Not -- not as far as utrat

-- what I reed ln theLr programsl no.

Q. And did they crank into cheLr program any provlelons

for protectlng lncumbents?

A. No.

Q. Are you saying, Ehen, that thetr plan was slnpLy a

mathematlcal or calculatlng asststance, ln which they used

census daca to help them wlth calculatlons?

A. That would be ny oplnion aE chle point ln tlme.

Thatr s correct.

Q. In your planr 8s you completed 18, Mr. Mlchalec, dld

you succeed ln naking more compact distrlcts than the plan

adopted by the general assembly?



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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 74

A. I think so, uh-hutr (yes).

Q. Did you eucceed ln spllttlng less counties than Ehey

epI lt?
A. Oh, absolutely, uh-huh (yes).

Q. How many counties dld you spllt ln the senate?

A. I spllt elght, and Ehey also spllt elghr ln the

aenate. Oh __ yeah.

Q. Did you split aeven or eight?

A. Seven. I thlnk I split aeven. D<cuse rne.

Q. So you split one less county in the senate than they

spI lt?
A. LJh-huh (yes) .

Q. How many counties dld you spllt ln the houee?

A. Ttrirteen, and they spllt twenty-four.

Q. A11 right, slr. DLd you succeed ln not dlvldlng any

non-votlng rlghts countles?

A. Yes, I did eucceed ln not dolng -- ln not divldlng
non-voting rtghts counties.

Q. And ln comparlng the deviations between the higheet,

and lowest of thelr counties, could you teIl us with respect

to the houser sa1 whether you succeeded ln havlng a lower

range of devlatlon from the norm?

A. Yes. In the house I dtd -- I was successful ln

achlevlng a lower range. In the Benate I was not. I wae

sLxteen-hundredths of a percentage polnt hlgher.

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 75

Q. Thatt s alxteen-hundredthe of one percentage polnt?

A. Thatr s correct.

Q. In the senate. And what was the dlfference tn the

house, ln terms of percentage polnts?

A. Letre Bee, we were abouE divide and subtract thaE

ouE thirty -- about four-tenths of a percent lower.

Q. That le, Iower than Ehelr devlatlon?

A. (Wltness moved head up and down)

: MR. HORTON: I belleve thatr s all I have.

MR. WAIJACE: I have a few more nord.

E)(AMINATION

BY MR. WALI"ACE TO I'IICHAEL S. MIC}IALEC:

Q. Irm very confused, sLr, about at least an inplica-
tlon in your teetlmony. Irn golng to let you help ne

stralghten that out, lf you wou1d, please.

You say Ehat you recelved computer lnfornatlon in

the form of a tape

A. --- Right.

Q. --- From the leglslatlve servlces offlce.

A. Lrh-huh (yes) .

Q. Is that correct?

A. Thatr g correct.
q. AlI rlght. Now, you took from that tape the censug

data for the State of North Carollna?

A. Thatr s correct.

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Mlchael S. Mlchalec Page 76

Q. All rlght. Nowr you responded to one of Mr. Hor-.

tonrs questions -- and Irm not Bure -- I donrt thlnk for

Bure I can even paraphrase lt but by the time you

answered lE I got the dlstlnct lnpreselon thaE fron uslng

the tape only lt was apparent to you that no other consider-

ation other than mathematlcal equallty had been used by the

leglslature ---
A. --- No.

Q. --: In drafting lts reaPPortlonment plan?

A. Walt a mlnute. Ttrat lsnrt -- the questlon -- his

question was ntrether or not the comPuter Programs used any

more daca.

Q. OkaY.

A. Okay?

Q. Okay.

A. Ttre computer Programs, to the best of ny knowledget

did not.

Q. But lt would be entlrely possible for all of chese

other factors

A. --- Oh, Ehatrs absolutelY true.

Q. --- To be consldered by someone in drawlng a plan

and then rr:n lt on the comPuEer to check for sccuracy.

A. Thatr s correct.

Q. Ie that correct?

A. llh-huh (yes) .

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Michael S. Mlchalec Page 77

Q. And the essence of the teetlnony today ls that you

dld not lncorporace those factors prlor to checklng your

plans on the cornputer?

A. Thatr s correct.

Q. AlL rlght. You have no way of knowlng, do you,

whether the leglslature considered all of those other

factors?

A. Ttrat r s rlght, utr-huh.

MR. WAIJ.ACE: I have no further questlone.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

MR. HORTON: Thatrs lt then. Mike, thank

you so much.

MS. HEEMN: Okay. Ttrank your Mr. Mlch-

alec.

THE VIITNESS: Okay.

WI{EREUPoN,

at lLtL2 orclock B.ID. the deposltlon lras adJourned

on the s&me day it was begun.

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CERTIFICATION

I, Charlotte M. Perry, Notary Publlc and Court

Reporter ln and for the County of Forsyth, State of North

Carollna, do hereby certlfy:
That there appeared before me

in the above-entltled cause;

Ehe foregoLng witness

That the sald depoeltion was conducted
)

at the tlme

and place herein aforementioned;

That the sald witness, MICHAEL S. MICHALEC, w8s arrorn

by ne and examlned to state the truth, the whole truth, and

nothlng but the truth, in sald cause;

That the testlmony was taken by ne and recorded by

Stenomask, and thereafter reduced to typewrlting tmder my

dlrect supervlsion, and the foregolng (77) pages are a

complete and accurate record of all the testlmony glven by

sald wltness at sald tlne;

That the underelgned, Charlotte M. Perry, ls not of

kin, nor in anywlse assoctated wlth any of the partlee to

sald cause of action, nor thelr counsel, and that L an not

lnterested ln the event(s) thereof.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have

78

seal, thls the 10th day of

hereunto

October

set my hand and

, 1982.

27L04

1n-L-9,'

I
W N"'o*tc:i"','Jt 

l,o"l]Jlrcenorrxe I
ily Commlrlon Expiro Novrmbrr 9, 1985 !

nt'
DeposLtl-on Servtces,
4825 Gladwyn Drive
Wlnston-Salem, N.C.

Depoaltlon Servlce8, Ioc.



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I{ITNESS CER.TIFICATION

I, MICHAEL S. MICHALEC, do hereby cerrlfy:
That I have read and examlned the contents of the

foregolng (7t1 pages of record of testlmony as glven by ne

at the time and place hereln aforementioned;

And that to the besr of ny knowledge. and belief, the

foregoing (77) pages are a complete and accurate record of
all the testlmony glven by ne at sald tLme, except as rrhere

lchalec

,' Notary Publlc for the

County of ate offl*aP,C,^o -, ,

do hereby certlfy:
That MICHAEL S. MICHALEC personally appeared before

personally wltnessed the executlon of

the lntents and purposes hereln above

me thls *" //aaay of ((' - , tg(Li
And that I

thls docr:ment for
descrlbed.

My Commlsslon Expires:

(sEAL)

OFF'CIALSEAL
Nolrry PuD[c,-Nortn Cirottnf

Depoat tlon Servl.cea 1 Inc . l0-4-82



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REAPPORUONMENT CRITERIA

The legislative staff assigned to the projeet, of redis-

tricting North Carolinats General Assembly, together with the

statistlcians retalned by the General .Assembly to assist the

legislative staff shall be guided by the following standards

ln the development of the plans for the House and the Senate.

1. Each legislative district shall in accordance with

the reguirements of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of

the United States be drawn so as to conEain 481954 people per

House member and 117r489 for each Senate rnember. The populaElon

ofeachdistrictsha11n:..varyfromtheabovefiguresbymore
than a + 58 and the average deviation for each House shaIl not,

exceed 3.25t. .

2. In order to avoid the dilution of the voting

rights of racial minorlties as protect,ed by the Votlng

Rights Act of 1965 and the 14th and 15th Amendments to t,he

United States Constitutionr o District shall be created

wherever there are concentrations of racial minorlties
' that can, without affirmative gerrymandering, contain 50t

' or more of such racial ninority and where praeticabLe,

such district shall be constructed ao that such racial

. minorities sha]l constitute 65t of the population in such
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'districts. -

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3. All leglslatlve distrlctB shall eonslst of contlguous

terrltory aE requlred by the North Carolina Constitutlon and shall

be as comPact as ls practicable consistent wlth reguirements 1 and

2 above.

4. No county shatl be subdivided nor shall a count'y line

be broken unless necessary to meet the requiremenbs of l and 2 above'

5. To the extent consistent with all of t,he above require-

rnents, districts should be constructed so as to recognize the

stat,ets historic conmunlties and conmonalities of interests with

respeet.to the inh.abitants and constituencies within such districts

provided such consideration shaII not violate any of the principles

listed ln paragraphs I through 4 abovet '

6, To the extent not ineonsistent with all of the above

standards and in order to minimize voter eonfusiOn and maintain

the lnterests set out, in paragraph 5 abovel present legislative

district lines shall be preserved'

7. During the Course of its work, legislative stafi

assigned t.o the reapPortionment Process sha1l consult with the

Attorney General and retained counsel wit'h resPect' to any legal

issues anq shal1 meet regular).y with the committees of the

House and Senate appointed for this PurPose'



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S.Thestaffshallcornpleteltsworktotheendthat

alegislatlveproposalispreparedforeachcommittee.tohold
publichearlngsontherespectiveplanstheweekofFebruary
},lgE2.Thecommitteestaffshall,inconsultationwith
the committee and counsel, prepare a rnailing notifying

interested individuals and organizations throughout tha

staEeofthedateandt,imeofsuchpublichearingsand
shallalsocauseapproprlat'epressreleasestobeprepared
for the media. The staff shalI also Prepare such notices

for publication in the 1egal notices section of approprlate '

newsPaPers.

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9. After the

respective committees

Attorney General and

priate and PrePare a
\

Legislature the week

public hearings have been held the

shall seek such oPinions from the

retained counsel as t'hey deem aPpro-

report to be acted uPon bY the

of FebruarY 8, 1982'
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AFFIDAVIT

tp; €* 4

tJilliam Kenneth HaIe, being duly swgrn, deposes and says

1. .I am ur attorney licensed in the State of tbrth Carolina and an employed

by the North Carolina General Assemb'ly. I have served as staff counse'l to.the

House Legislative Redistricting Corrnittee since January 1981.

2. In October 1981, the North Carolina General Assembly adopted a redistrict-

ing ptan for the North Carolina House of Representatives that did not contravene

the North Carolina constitutional provislons prohibitlng the divislon of countles

in the formation of districts and that had an overall range of deviation from'the

ideal population for representative districts of 15.61X, (The first redistricting

plan for the House passed by the General Assemb'ly in July 1981, hul a'lso fo'llowed

the constitutional provisions prohibiting the division of counties and had an

overall range of deviation of 23.61.) The October plan was submitted to the United

States Department of Justice for preclearance pursuant to Section 5 of the Voting

Rights Act of 1965, as amended, (42 U,S.C. $1973, et seq.).

3. Pursuant to the Voting Rights Act of 1965, 40 of the 100 counties in the

State of North Caro'lina are covered by the Act, rfiich requires the counties to'sub-

mit any change in voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard,

practice, or procedure to the United States Attorney General for prec'learance prlor

to any such change becoming effective as'law. (Approval of such changes may also

be obtained by seeking a declaratory judgment in the United States.District Court

for the District of Columbia.) In 1968, Article II, S3(3) and 55(3) of the North

Caro'lina Constitution had been amended to prohibit the division of counties in the

formation of Senate and Representative districts, Although these amendments l{ere

subject to the preclearance provisions of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, they

were not submitted to the United States Department of Justice until September 1981,

The Attorney General interposed an objection, by letter dated 30 November 1981, to

the constitutiona'l amendments insofar as they affected the covered counties. The

objection letter noted that the prohibition agai,nst dividing the 40 covered

counties in the formation of Senate and House distrjcts predictably required, and

had led to the use of, Iarge multi-member districts. The letter noted further,

that the use of such multi-member districts necessarily submerges cognizable

minority population concentrations into larger white electorates.



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4. By letter dated January 20, Lg82, an objectlon was lnterposed by the

Attorney General to the October House plan because it rould have resulted in a sub-

merge;lce of black rroting strength. me oiiection letter noted that the House plan

had employed targe nrlti<nmber districts r*rich effectively submerged sizeable

concentrations of black population into amajority ntrite electorate and which rvere

apparent'ly a conseguence of the State's adherence during redistricting to the 1968

constitutional anendment, The objection letter also specifica'lly noted that the

use of a county-wide district in Guilford County submerged a significant conceni.a-

tion of Ulaik citizens in the city of Greensboro *rere black persons comprise over

one-third of ine city's popu'tation. Cumberland County was also pointed out as an

area where concentrations of black citizens likewise suffered a submergence of

i,treir voting strength as a result of large multi-member districts. The objection

letter also specifically pointed to the northeastern counties of Bertie, Gates,

Halifax, Hertford, Martin and Northampton (previously District 5 under the 1971

p'lan), n'here the black popu'lation. percentage of 57,51 in the 1971 three-member

district had been reduced to 51.7f,, wirich appeared to be a retrogression in the

position of racia'l minorities with respect to their effective use of the electoral

franch I se .

5. The House Legislative Redistricting Committee (here'inafter the Committee)

on Janirar! ?8, 1982, adopted a set of criteria, based on federa'l and State redis-

tricting requirements, to guide them in creating representative districts for the

North Carolina General Assembly, (A copy of these criteria is attached hereto as

Hale Affidavit Exhibit A and is hereby incorporated by.reference as if fully set

forth herein. )

6, In'light of the objections interposed by the Civil Rights Division of the

United States Department of Justice, and upon examination of the census population

figures for the counties and townships in the State of North Carolina, it is my

opinion that it is necessary in order to create representative districts for the

General Assembly to divide counties that are not covered by the Voting Rights Act,

More specifically, Guilford County was one of thd counties identified in the objec-

tion letter received by the State. Guilford County'has a population of 317,154

under the 1980 census. For purposes of "one person, one voten considerations, an

ideal representative district should contain 49,015 people. Under the 1971 House

district plan, Gui'lford County was allocated seven representatives. Under the 1980

census, rne roeai poputatron for an area comprising seven representatives ls 343,105,

Under these circumstances, if the Guilford County llouse district was not changed,

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,ts popu'lation wouliJ have been 25,95L people less than the ldeal poPulation, wttich

would y'ield a relative deviation of -7.561. In order to bring the relative

deviation for the Guilford districts unddi 5I, utrich nould satisfy the deviation

criterion established by the Cormittee, it was necessary to corobine townships of

another county or counties with Guilford County townships. The only two counties

contiguous to Guilford that are also covered by the Voting Rights Act are

Rockingham and Caswe'lI Counties.

7. Next, looking at the northeastern counties of North Carolina, almost all

of wtrich are covered by the Voting Rights Act, the Attorney General had objected

specifically to the dilution of minority voting strength in Bertie, Gates, Halifax,

Hertford, Martin and Northampton Counties. In order to give cognizance to the

significant concentration of black citizens in the northeastern counties, the

Genera'l Assembly created predominantly black House Districts 5 and 7, with b'lack

population percentages of 61I and 62I respectively. (These districts were ulti-

mately approved by the Attorney General under the Voting Rights Act as giving black

voters a reasonable opportlunity to e'lect candidates,of their choice')

In creating these districts so as not to reduce or dilute the voting

strength of b'lack citizens, it was necessary to transfer out of District 7 and into

the new District 22 (comprising CaswelI, Person, Granville, Vance and portions of

I'larren and Halifax Counties), the predominantly wtrite population of the Halifax

County township of Roanoke Rapids. Correspondingly, it was necessary to transfer

from District 22 and into District 7 the predominantly black townships of Fishing

Creek, Ford, Sandy Creek, Shocco, and }larrenton. This resulted in a lowering of

the black population percentage in District 2?, rthich district is primarily made up

of counties also covered by the Voting Rights Act and its protections against the

di'lution of the effectiveness of black voting strength.

@ 
If, in order to bring the population figures for the Guilford districts

into'line with the Conmittee's re'lative deviation criterion, the Genera'l Assembly.

had transferred townships solely from Rockingham County into the Gui'lford district,

it wou'ld have been necessary to transfer certain"laswell County townships to the

district comprising Alamance County and the remainder of Rockingham County.

Because of the heavy concentration of black popu'lation in Caswell County, this

would have further diluted the black voting strength in new District 22 and also

would have necessitated further transfers of townships into District 22 frqn other

contiguous counties in nrrler to comoly with the relative deviation criterion of the

Cormittee, 0bviously, the trdnsfer of any particular township from one district to

another .will have a 'ripple' or 'itominoo effect on surrounding counties and districts.

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g. similarly, combining caswell county townships' instead of Rockingham

county townships,'with Guilford county townships to bring the relatiYe deviation of

the Guilford districts into line with the.criterion, would not only have the same

minority dilution effect on Distri ct 22, as rentioned ln paragraph 8 above, but

rould leave the four-member district consisting of Alamance and Rockingham Counties

13,315 persons short of the ideal population, with a relative deviation of -6.7t1'

10. But for the existence of the voting Rights Act and the necesslty for

approval or preclearance by the Department of Justlce, lt would have been posslble

to draw redistrlcting'plans for the House wtrlch dld not cross county llnes or

divide any county. It appears that it would not havb been possible.to gain

approval by the Department of Justice without drawing the representative districts

as they are noy, drawn, or drawing some other plan wtrich would have also required

crossing some county lines in uncovered as well as covered counties'

l|li'lliam Kenneth Hale being duly sworn, states that he has read the foregoing

Affidavit subscribed by him, and that the contents th'ereof are true to the best of

his know'tedge, information and be'lief.

Sworn to and subscribed

,nrt f 4* dav or

ArtUl,,^*,W
,1982.

My Conrni ssion Expires {,t 
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