Exhibit F - Transcript of Cross Examination Re Calhoun County

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or Sims vs, Coffee County and ask that it be admitted into 

evidence. 

MR. BLACKSHER: No objection to any of the defen- 

dants' exhibits. 

THE COURT: It's admitted. 

MR. ROWE: That's all. 

THE COURT: Mr, Jones. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

BY MR, JONES: 

Q poctor, I need to ask you about Calhoun County, and I 

will try to do it very briefly. If you will look at Exhibit 

187, which is the printout on the various counties, Calhoun 

County is on the bottom of Page 2, and am I correct in under- 

standing that during the period about which you have re- 

searched it Calhoun County has had an at large county com= 

mission except for a period from 1923 to 19397? 

A That's what the statutes indicate. 

Q All right, sir. And according to your research, they 

converted to a single member district system in 1923, is 

that correct? 

A That's what the statute indicates they did. 

Q And then converted == well, Doctor, I will tell you, 

Calhoun County has no lawsuits, we have no referendum that 

you are not aware of. And then in 1939 they converted back 

to at large, is that correct?   
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A That's correct. 

Q Now, the 1939 decision to go back to an at large system | 

predates the trend that you have described that followed | 

world War II? 

A That's correct. 

Q Many counties I think you said began converting to an 

at large system then? 

A Yes. 

Q Are you aware of any state-wide event or any local event 

that you can tie this 1939 decision to? 

A No. 

Q You are not awars of anything that was going on state- 

wide? 

A No. 

Q And have you done any research in Calhoun County as 

you did in Marengo and Choctaw and 80 forth?   A No. 

Q so, therefore, you are not aware of any local decision? 

A That's correct. 

Q During your research on this subject, and let's take 

the period from the end of the Civil War until, or the end 

of the 1880's before the Populist movement, that period 

of time, who presided over the various county commissions in 

the state with regard, without regard to whether they were 

single member districts or at large districts?   
  

  

  

 



  

  

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A Who presided? Are you asking me about a presiding | 

officer? 

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Q Yes, sir. | 

A In many counties, though I don't believe in all, probate 

judges served as presiding officers. 

Q That was the typical Alabama situation during that 

period of time? 

I don't know for sure that A That was a common situation. 

it was dominant enough to be called typical, but it probably 

was. 

Q All right, sir. During the 1890's when there was a 

shift away from single member districts to at large dis- 

tricts did your research detect any change in the counties 

about who was going to preside over the county commission? 

A I didn't investigate that question specifically. 

Q Well, you read all the statutes =-- 

A Yes. 

Q -=- that were passed. And do you recall seeing any of   
  

them that changed their system of presiding officer? 

A I recall that there were some. I do not recall any | 

individual cases specifically. 

Q As a matter of fact, Doctor, during your research have 

  

you determined that there has been, at least in the more 

populous counties, a change from the probate judge to a 

chairman, a full time chairman? 

  

   

          
          

        
    
 



  

  

     
     
        

       
      
    

      
     
    
     
      
     
     
    

     
    

    
    
     
     
    
      
           
       
        
       

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A I don't know that it's in the more populous counties. 

I also am not sure that there's a trend because I haven't 

{nvestigated the question. But there probably is more 

frequent reliance on a presiding officer other than the 

probate judge in more recent decades, but I can not testify 

to that out of any knowledge, because I haven't investigated 

the question. 

Q All right. Based on your =< admittedly, you haven't 

made any in depth research on jt == but based on your ob- 

servations and, after all, these are all Acts that deal with 

the various county commissions and you have read then, 

have you detected any racial motivation in the legislature's 

choice of who is to preside over the various county com- 

        missions? 

A No, not in terms of who is to perform the function of 

presiding officer, no. 

Q You detect no trends Or any indication of racial bias 

on the part of the legislature in selecting presiding offi- 

cers for county commissions, is that correct? 

A You are asking me specifically about the choice of, 

say, a probate judge versus a president or a chairman and 

ROL we 

Q or how, whoever is to, if it's to be the license com= 

            missioner, whoever is to preside over the meetings of the 

| county commission, whatever his title is, have you detected 

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® ® 149 

any racial motivation in the method by which he is selected? 

8 Only in the sense that by electing a single individual 

on an at large basis, one does preserve that seat on the 

county governing body from district elections; whereas, 

some systems allow all the members to be elected by district, 

the presiding officer to be elected by the members who are 

elected under the district plan. But if you mean merely 

the choice of which at large person, which person elected 

on an at large basis =-- 

Q Yes, sir. 

A -- is to preside, there is no evidence that the leg- 

i{slature made one choice or another on the basis of racial 

discrimination, to my knowledge. 

Q Have you familiarized yourself with the Alabama statutes 

as they regard counties before the Civil war? 

A I have gathered the statutes. I have not incorporated 

them into this analysis because pefore the Civil War blacks 

could not vote, most of them were, in fact, the majority 

of them were slaves, and I have not included those antebellum 

statutes in the data pase in the interest of time. 

Q I understand, Doctor. prior to the, prior to 1865, 

blacks could not vote in this state? 

A Right. 

Q and would it be, therefore, fair to say that the leg- 

islature did not think about race one way or the other when 

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| they passed election statutes? 
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| A Yes. 

Q And are you familiar through your research, sir, that 4 

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A I'm sorry. I meant by my answer to respond yes in terms 

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| of the selection of the method of election, not election 

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| laws in general. I think that was your question. | 
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Q Well, you're right. 1 suppose there was a statute that 

said black people cannot vote. 

A Yes, it said only free whites could vote, only whites 

could vote. 

Q That is there. But in so far as otherwise regulating     
elections, race was not a factor in the legislature's deci- 

sion? 

A In terms of the choice of at large versus district     elections, and that sort of thing, that's correct.     Q And are you or have you become aware through your re= | 

search that it has been the general Alabama rule, and I | 

won't say universal, but the general Alabama rule at least 

since 1852 that the probate judge preside over the county 

commission? 

A I can't state that that's a general rule. I believe 

that the state-wide code provisions have throughout most of | 

that period provided such, There are many local exceptions | 

      to the code, let us say many local laws, that do not follow 

the methods specified in the code, so I am not sure what you     
 



      
  

  

a. a 151 

mean by the term "general" except to say that it's very 

common. 

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Q All right. It is common, and if you have any other sys- 

tem it's got to be by local Act? 

A Yes, 

Q All right, sir. And it is very common. And the pro- 

bate judge, of course, is an officer elected county-wide? 

A Yes, 

Q And he will preside and has presided even though his 

county commission may be selected by district? 

A That's correct. 

Q Doctor, in looking at 187 again, just looking through 

it generally, your first block on Page 1 I take it is just 

an example of how it is to be read? 

A No. 

Q Does that describe an actual county? 

n No, I'm sorry, the label "county" is misleading because 

the computer software sort of labeled that, had to label it 

one field or another, and what that block indicates is 

statutes that are general laws, Recall the column labeled 

"rype® and note that each of these statutes, as identified 

with a "G" next to it, what that indicates is that these 

are general laws, state-wide in application for the most 

part, and not specific to any county. 

For example, the two 1961 laws at the bottom of