Northern District of Georgia - Witnesses - Harris, Welcome

    WITS Welcome ani? 
  

  

L — “U.S Ovdtvid Loud 

ob J 1987 

  

  

; ow ay  



  

Sd
 

ga
 

© 

10 

  

| MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE HAVE A PHONE NUMBER WHERE WE CAN REACH 

  
  

190 

THE COURT: IM GOING TO EXCUSE YOU NOW. IF EITHER 

STATES COUNSEL OR PETITIONERS COUNSEL NEED YOU TOMORROW, 

YOU. WE WILL DO QUR BEST TO LET YOU GET SOME SLEEP BUT WE ARE 

TRYING TO WIND THIS THING DOWN IF WE CAN. SO WE MAY HAVE TO 

ASK YOU BACK BUT WE WILL TRY NOT TO. 

ALL RIGHT. CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS. 

MR. BOGER: DETECTIVE HARRIS. 

THE CLERK: PLEASE COME IN FRONT OF THE PODIUM AND RAISE 

YOUR RIGHT HAND.   YOU [0D SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU SHALL GIVE 

IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THE COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, 

THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. S00 HELP YOU GOD. 

THE WITNESS: I DO, 

  THE CLERK: BE SEATED ON THE WITNESS STAND. STATE YOUR | 

FULL NAME. | 

THE WITNESS: OKAY. MY NAME IS INVESTIGATOR WELCOME HARRIS 

JR. IM EMPLOYED BY THE CITY OF ATLANTA, BUREAU OF POLICE | 

SERVICES, HOMICIDE SQUAD. 

WELCOME HARRIS, JR. 

| BEING FIRST DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

| BY MR. BOGER® 

| o. DETECTIVE HARRIS, WHEN DID YOU FIRST BECOME INVOLVED WITH 

THE WARREN MCCLESKEY CASE? 

 



  

E
N
 

© 
S
e
l
 

S
e
 

B
e
 

  

  

  

A. OH, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY WHEN IT HAPPENED, WHICH WOULD HAVE 

BEEN APRIL —— IT WILL BE APRIL THE 13TH, 78, | 

ol. “78. 1 BELIEVE THE RECORD WILL PROBABLY SHOW —- 

A. MAY. YEAH. 

o. DO YOU HAVE WITH YOU A FILE? 

A. I HAVE WITH ME. YES. SIR. 

@. AND WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THAT FILE? 

A. THIS IS THE FILE ON OFFICER FRANK R. SCHLATT. 

Q. WHOSE FILE IS THAT? 

A. WELL, THATS OUR OFFICE FILE. 

Gl. OKAY. WHO WITHIN THE OFFICE MAINTAINS THE FILE ON THAT 

CASE? 

A. WELL, WE HAVE —-- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FILE CABINET WE KEEP 

THEM IN BUT THESE HERE CONTAIN A NUMBER OF ORIGINALS I WOULD 

SAY. SOME OF THEM ARE REPRODUCTIONS BUT —— I DON‘T KNOW WHERE 

THEY GOT THESE FROM THIS MORNING. I“M THINKING THAT THEY GOT 

THEM FROM THE RECORDS SECTION DOWNTOWN. THE CITY OF ATLANTA. 

Gr. I SEE. YOU! DIDNT BRING THOSE DOCIIMENTS YOURSELF? 

A. THEY WERE BROUGHT HERE BY SERGEANT MCCLURE. WHO CAME OVER | 

HERE WITH ME. 

QR. ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE WILL WANT TO REVIEW THEM OR IF MY 

CO-COUNSEL IS BACK AT THE TABLE OR WHEN HE COMES BACK REVIEW 

THEM DURING THIS PRESENTATION. IF ITS POSSIBLE WE CAN, YOU 

KNOW, MAKE IT SHORTER. IF WE DO THAT, BUT ILL HAVE QUESTIONS 

| TO ASK OF YOU WHILE WE ARE CONTINUING WITH THAT FROCESS. 

  

  

  

  

 



    

  

    

198 

MR. BOGER: IF I MIGHT APPROACH THE WITNESS? 

THE COQURT: YOU MAY. 

THE WITNESSt I WILL NEED THEM TO REFER TO CERTAIN 

DATES AND THINGS. OKAY.   BY MR. BOGER: 

Q. DO LET ME KNOW IF YOU DO NEED THEM. WERE THERE OTHER 

QFFICERS IN THE ATLANTA BUREAU OF POLICE SERVICES THAT WORKED 

WITH YOU ON THIS CASE? 

A. YES. SIR.   
Q. WHO WERE THEY? 

A. WILLIAM JOWERS, SIDNEY DORSEY. AND J. A. WALKER. JR. 

THERE WERE SEVERAL OTHERS. I THINK THATS ALL THE 

INVESTIGATORS. 1 BELIEVE SERGEANT MCCONNELL WHO IS NO LONGER 

EMPLOYED BY THE BUREAU OF POLICE SERVICES: R. F. WILLIAMS, WHO 

  IS NO LONGER EMPLOYED BY THE BUREAU OF POLICE SERVICES. AT 

THE TIME ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE EMPLOYED IN HOMICIDE AND WORK i 

AND THIS WAS A CASE THAT WE WORKED ARQUND THE CLOCK AS A 

MATTER OF FACT. ALL THREE SGUAD WERE INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, 

. WELL, THATS WHAT I WANTED TO ASK. WHATS THE 

RELATIONSHIP OF YOU TO THE OTHER TWO OFFICERS OR DETECTIVES 

YOU MENTIONED? 

A. I WOULD SAY THAT I JUST CARRIED THE BRUNT OF THE 

INVESTIGATION FOR THE MOST PART. JUST THE ONLY THING I CAN 

TESTIFY TO LIKE I HAD BEFORE, JUST WHAT I DID IN THE 

INVESTIGATION. I DON‘T GUESS IM NO BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE. 

 



  

~N
 

  

| Qu 

  

I JUST DID MY JOB. 

19% 

WERE YOU AND MR. JOWERS OR DETECTIVE JOWERS ON DIFFER 

  

  

af 

  

SHIFTS? C ! Jd 

| A. WE WERE ON THE SAME SHIFTS. NOW, WE WERE PARTNERS DURING 

THAT TIME. YES. SIR. 

@. MR. DORSEY OR DETECTIVE DORSEY, WAS HE ON A DIFFERENT 

SHIFT? 

A. NO, I BELIEVE HE’S WORKING DAY WATCH AT THAT TIME. 

Q@. SO THE THREE OF YOU WORKED TOGETHER ON THE CASE? 

A. OFF AND ON, ILL PUT IT THAT WAY. BUT MY PARTNER AT THAT 

TIME WAS DETECTIVE JOWERS, OKAY, BUT DORSEY DID WORK ON IT 
  

  q—— 

de 

ALONG WITH OTHER OFFICERS. 

OKAY. DID YOU MAKE ANY CONTACT AT ANY POINT WITH OFFIE 
  

  

THAT WAS ON -- I BELIEVE THE DATE IS JULY THE 12TH. 
  

WELL. I SAW IT -—- FOR THE RECORD I HAD TO REVIEW IT. 

  

  

SO IN OTHER WORDS YOU HAVE REVIEWED SOME OF THE RECORDS? 

NOT THAT. IT WAS ON A LEGAL PAD, ON A PIECE OF PAPER 
  

MR. PARKER HAD. THATS WHERE I GOT THE DATE FROM, RIGHT. 
    MR. PARKER SHOWED YOU AND YOU ALL SHARED THAT DOCUMENT? 

EVANS? 
—— 

A. OFFIE EVANS, YES, I DID. 

2. WHEN WAS THAT, THE FIRST TIME? 

A. 

QR. AND WHAT MAKES YOUU REMEMBER THAT DATE? 

wg 
IT’S BEEN NINE YEARS. 

N= 

A. 

THAT 

@. 

A. RIGHT. 

  

 



  

146 

24 

25 

  

  

  

194 

2. HAVE YOU USED THAT DOCUMENT TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION 
  

| OF THOSE EVENTS? 

A. YES. SIR. AS FAR AS THE DATES 1% CONCERNED, YES. 
— 

G0. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER FILES OR RECORDS THAT WOULD HELP 

  

  

FRESH YOU AS TO WHEN YOU FIRST TALKED WITH MR. EVANS? 

A. NO, SIR. TO MY RECOLLECTION THAT IS IN FACT THE FIRST 
  

  

Cl. HOW DID YOU COME TO SPEAK WITH HIM? 

A. WITH MR. EVANS? 

. MR. EVANS. 

A. GOTTEN INFORMATION FROM THE FULTON COUNTY DEPUTY. I 

BELIEVE HIS NAME WAS HAMILTON. THAT'S THE ONE I SAW IN THE 
  

HALL. WHEN I CAME THIS MORNING. AS A MATTER OF FACT. THAT'S 

THE FIRST TIME I HAD SEEN HIM IN NINE YEARS. 

A. WHAT WAS THE INFORMATION YOU RECEIVED? 

A. HE TOLD US THAT HE HAD AN INMATE OUT THERE WHO HAD SOME 

INFORMATION CONCERNING THE SCHLATT CASE AND THE ROBBERY OF THE 

FURNITURE STORE. 

(AS AT THAT TIME DID HE TELL YOU WHAT THE INFORMATION (as) 
  A 

A. NO. TI THINK =- MY FIRST CONTACT I BELIEVE WITH HIM WAS 
  

OVER THE TELEPHONE, IN QUR OFFICE, AND I THINK THEN MY NEXT 
  

  

CONTACT WAS WITH —-— THE NEXT PERSON I TALKED TO WAS A —~ WAS 
  

ASSISTANT [DA RUSS PARKER. AND AT THAT TIME RUSS AND I WENT 
  

OUT ~- LATER ON WE WENT QUT AND TALKED TO HIM THAT MORNING, 

THATS WHY I SAY IT WAS THE 12TH. 

  

  

 



  

  

195 

He OKAY. SO THE TWO OF YOU WENT OUT THERE. WHEN YOU GOT TN 

THE JAIL WERE YOU JOINED BY ANYONE? 

A. I BELIEVE IT WAS THREE OF US THERE. LIKE I SAY, IM NOT 
/ - 

i SURE. I KNOW THERE WAS RUSS PARKER AND MYSELF AND I RELIEVE 

  

  

IT WAS DORSEY. I AM NOT SURE. 
——   

Q. OKAY. WAS ANYBODY ELSE PRESENT WHEN YOU HAD YOUR 
  

7 

{ INTERVIEW? 

A. WITH EVANS? 
B., 

do. RIGHT. 
EE 

A. I DON“T RECALL. MIGHT HAVE BEEN. I CAN‘T SAY. 

  

  

  

    a——— 

Wo. DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER THE DEPUTY HAMILTON WAS PRESENT 

  OR NOT? 

A. I DON“T -- HE COULD HAVE BEEN. I‘M NOT SURE. 

\ J. BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DON’T REMEMBER? 

\ Re I JUST DON’T REMEMBER, NO, SIR. 
  

\ cm 

Ao ne WHAT TIME OF DAY WAS IT? 

Ae THE ONLY THING I CAN TELL YOU, SIR, IT WAS BEFORE NOON. 

  50 IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETIME THAT MORNING. I‘LL SAY 

  EE Tee {OUGHLY ANYWHERE BETWEEN $3100 AND 10100 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT 
  

  

  

  

BUT BEFORE NOON.   

  

SH WERE YOU ALL TOGETHER IN THE ROOM? 

AW YES, SIR. I BELIEVE THE ROOM —- I BELIEVE WE WERE IN A 

     Hi a CORRE    E———R00M THAT WAS OCCUPIED BY A CAPTAIN, AND I DON’T THINK —— HE‘S   

TEEEEETEEEEEEEENO LONGER EMPLOYED QUT THERE. © THINK HIS NAME IS WORTHY BUT 

  IT WAS CAPTAIN WORTHY’S OFFICE. 

  

  

  

 



  

NN
. 

bh 
J
E
 

SE
 

BE
E 

E
E
 

BE
E 

W
R
 

T
s
 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

23 

  

  

126 

Q. WAS CAPTAIN WORTHY THERE? 

A. NO, SIR, I“M SURE HE WASN’T. YOU KNOW. 

Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY TYPIST OR ANY PERSON THERE TO TAKE A 

STATEMENT FROM MR. EVANS? 

A. NO JUST OTHER THAN NOTES THAT RUSS TOOK, MR. PARKER TOOK. 

Q. DID YOU TAKE ANY NOTES? 

A. I DONT RECALL. I MIGHT HAVE. I DON’T RECALL. SIR. 

Q. HAVE YOU LOOKED FOR THOSE NOTES? 

A. WELL, YOU HAVE EVERYTHING I HAVE RIGHT THERE. 

Q. OKAY. 

A. IF I HAD ANYTHING, I —- YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAY, I DON‘T 

RECALL TAKING ANY. 

Q. YOU DON“T KEEP A SEPARATE FILE? 

A. WELL, NORMALLY I WOULD BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN HE WAS 

TAKING THE NOTES S0 -- AND AT THAT POINT, IF MEMORY SERVES ME 

CORRECTLY. THAT PARTICULAR CASE IS IN THE HANDS OF THE 

DISTRICT ATTORNEY AT THAT TIME. YOU KNOW, WE WERE STILL 

WORKING IN CONJUNCTION WITH EACH OTHER. 

Q. BY THAT YOU MEAN WHAT? 

A. BY THAT I MEAN BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THE DEFENDANTS 

AT THE TIME WERE IN THE FULTON COUNTY JAIL. THEY HAD ALREADY 

BEEN BOUND OVER AND INDICTED. 

i. OKAY. DO YOU KEEP A PERSONAL DIARY OR RECORD OR LOG OR 

ANYTHING THAT WOULD CHART YOU? 

A. OTHER THAN —-— YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN WHAT WE CALL A CRIME 

  

 



  

>
 

g
D
 

O
0
3
 

» 
O
W
N
 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

23 

  

  

197 

SCENE NOTEBOOK, IF I HAD ONE. I KNOW I WOULD HAVE HAD ONE 

DURING THE TIME THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS INITIATED. NOW, 

YOU KNOW, WHERE IT IS NOW I COULDN‘T TELL YOU. 

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY —-- DO YOU HAVE ANY DOCUMENTS THAT YOU ARE 

REQUIRED TO FILE, SAY A DAILY LOG WITH THE DEPARTMENT THAT 

WOULD SAY THE 2ND OF JULY WENT TO THE FOLLOWING PLACE? 

a. OTHER THAN THE FACT, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD MAKE 

SUPPLEMENTS. 

Q. SUPPLEMENTS TO -- 

A. SUPPLEMENT TC THE ONGOING INVESTIGATION. 

THE COURT: YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT IT FROM AN 

INVESTIGATIVE FILE STANDPOINT. I THINK WHAT HE’S THINKING 

ABOUT IS KIND OF LIKE LAWYERS KEEP TIME SHEETS TO SHOW WHAT 

YOU DID. 

THE WITNESS: NO. SIR, WE WEREN’T DOING THAT. 

THE COURT: YOU DO AN ACTUAL TIME -- 

THE WITNESS: WE WOULDN‘T HAVE AN ACTUAL TIME, NO, 

SIR. WE DIDN‘T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THEY STARTED THAT 

AND THEN THEY SUSPENDED THAT AFTER THAT TIME. NO, WE DIDN’T 

HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. NOW, WE HAD A LOG SHEET IN UNIFORM 

BUT NOW BEING IN GENERAL INVESTIGATION LIKE I WAS IN AND I 

STILL AM IN, NO. | 

BY MR. BOGER! 

XQ. DO YOU HAVE ANY DIARIES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD SHOW 

NOT WITH RESPECT TO THE INVESTIGATION BUT DAY BY DAY? 

  

  
    

 



  

Ng
 

© 
NN

 
OC
 

A 
Dd

 
W
N
 

A
 

p
d
 

A
 

pa
 

pa
 

4 
Ww

 
N
 

ps
 

eo]
 

be
t A 

16 

17 

24 

23 

  

  

198 

A. PERSONAL DIARIES, NO, SIR. 

Q. SQ YOU GOT TO THE MEETING. WHAT HAPPENED? 

A. WELL, WE LISTENED TO HIM. HE BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT THE 

FACT THAT HE HAD OVERHEARD A DISCUSSION BETWEEN MR. MCCLESKEY 

AND A GUY BY THE NAME OF BERNARD DUPREE. 

Q. DID WHAT HE SAY COINCIDE WITH WHAT DETECTIVE OR DEPUTY 

HAMILTON HAD TOLD YOU? 

A. WELL. HAMILTON DIDN‘T GO IN DEPTH. HAMILTON JUST CALLED 

US. HE FELT LIKE ONCE HE RECEIVED THE INFORMATION AND AS NEAR 

AS I CAN RECALL THE GUY SAID HE WANTED TO TALK TO THE POLICE 

AND HAMILTON GOT US IN TOUCH WITH HIM. NOW, I DON‘T THINK 

HAMILTON WENT IN DEPTH. OTHER THAN SAYING THAT THIS GUY 

POSSIBLY KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THE ROBBERY OF THE DIXIE 

FURNITURE STORE AND THE SHOOTING OF THE OFFICER. 

Q. DID HAMILTON EVEN TELL YOU THAT HE HAD A FEELING WHY HE 

KNEW IT, THAT HES NEXT DOOR TO MCCLESKEY? 

A. NO, I THINK HE WAS JUST DOING HIS DUTY, JUST THOUGHT 

MAYBE HE SHOULD CONTACT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE 

INVESTIGATION. 

a. BUT IT PROMPTED YOU AND DETECTIVE PARKER TO IMMEDIATELY 

  

  
GET IN THE CAR AND GO OUT THERE. DID YOU LEARN BEFORE YOQU GOT | 

TO THE SCENE THAT EVANS WAS NEXT DOOR TO MCCLESKEY? 

A. I DON'T THINK SO. I DON‘T THINK WE KNEW THAT UNTIL WE 

GOT QUT THERE AND I THINK THAT WAS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION RY 

DEPUTY HAMILTON. 

  

 



  

Pa
y 

vv
 

0 
NN

 
>>

 
a 

Pp
 

Ww
W 

NW
N 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

  

  

199 

| 0, DID MR. EVANS GO INTO GREAT DETAIL WITH YOU ABOUT THE 

NATURE OF THE DISCUSSIONS WITH MR. -- 

A. OKAY. OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD YOU WANT TQ KNOW --— WELL, 

HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT —- HE WANTED TO KNOW WHY DID -- HE. 

MEANING MR. MCCLESKEY, HAD PUT HIS NAME AND THIS DUPREE. THEY 

QUESTIONED EACH OTHER BACK AND FORTH. THERE WAS SOME 

UTTERANCE -- SOME UTTERANCES ABOUT TWO STATEMENTS THAT HAD 

BEEN MADE, ONE IN COBB COUNTY AND ONE IN FULTON COUNTY WHEN HE 

ARRIVED AT THE ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT. 

a. LET ME INTERRUPT YOU JUST ONE MINUTE. DETECTIVE, TO ASK 

YOU WHETHER YOU ARE NOW TESTIFYING FROM YOUR PRESENT 

RECOLLECTION? 

A. I‘M TESTIFYING BASED ON: SIR, BASED ON RECOLLECTION, ALSO 

BASED ON OTHER ITEMS THAT I SAW ONLY FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS 

MORNING. BUT NOW I DO RECALL THOSE EVENTS. THAT THEY 

TRANSPIRED AFTER READING -- LOOKING AT SOME OF THE THINGS THIS 

MORNING. 

Q. SO YOU HAVE A PRESENT RECOLLECTION? 

A. YES, SIR, I“M JUST TELLING YOU THE BEST I CAN. 

a. FINE. OKAY. 

A. AND THE FACT THAT THE OFFICER WAS SHOT. NOW. I“M JUST 

PARAPHRASING IT. THE OFFICER WAS SHOT AND WHO SHOT THE 

OFFICER. AND I THINK -—— NOW, LIKE I SAY, I DON’T RECALL 

LOOKING AT THIS, THIS MORNING, JUST SKIMMING THROUGH. I THINK 

THERE WAS SOMETHING SAID ABOUT DUPREE THREATENING TO TELL THAT 

  

 



  

aA
 

> 
Ww
W 

N 

24 

23 

  

  

200 

MR. MCCLESKEY IS THE ONE WHO ACTUALLY FIRED THE SHOT THAT 

KILLED THE POLICE OFFICER. 

Q. DID MR. EVANS EXPLAIN, HIMSELF, ABOUT WHY HE“S DOING 

THIS, ABOUT WHY HE’S COMING FORWARD TO TALK? 

A. NO, BUT —- I COULDN’T TELL YOU THAT. 

Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU HE HAD EVER SERVED AS AN INFORMANT 
SESNISENE 

BEFORE? 

  

  

A. I DON’T RECALL HIM INDICATING THAT TO ME. THAT’S MY 

FIRST MEETING WITH HIM, FIRST TIME THAT I EVER SEEN HIM. 

  

  

a. I UNDERSTAND THAT WAS YOUR FIRST MEETING BUT DID HE AT 

THAT TIME SAY I HAVE GIVEN INFORMATION BEFORE? 

A. THAT 1 DO NOT RECALL. I DO NOT RECALL ASKING HIM THAT. 
  

I DON’T KNOW WHETHER RUSS ASKED HIM THAT. I DON’T RECALL 

ASKING THAT. MYSELF. 

EXAMINATION 

BY THE COURT? 

XR. AT THE TIME YOU WENT OUT THERE DID YOU KNOW HE HAR BEEN 
  — 

AN INFORMANT? _ 
  

Fra NO, SIR, I DIDN‘T KNOW. I REALLY DIDN’T. THAT’S MY 
aan   

FIRST TIME, YOUR HONOR, EVER SEEING THE MAN. 

QR. FROM JUST HEARSAY OR FILES? 

A. FROM HEARSAY I COULDN’T ~— I DIDN’T KNOW. 

BY MR. BOGER? 

Q. DID HE TELL YOU AT ANY TIME DURING THE CONVERSATION, 

THOUGH, THAT WHAT HE HAD DONE IN THE PAST IS BE AN INFORMER OR 

  

 



  

p
I
 

T
O
L
 

NE
EL
 

E
d
 

TR
 

Ww
 
N
e
 

p
a
 

poe
t 

N 
el
 

(®]
 

Py
 

Ww
 

14 

135 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

23 

  

| 

i 

| 

  

HELP PEOPLE QUT? 

A. OKAY. NOW, MAYBE IF I HADNT SAW IT IN WRITING OR 

SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IN STATEMENT FORM THAT HE MADE. MAYBE I 

COULD SAY "YES" BUT I DON‘T RECALL HIM SAYING ANYTHING LIKE 

THAT, 

Q. LET ME GIVE YOU A DOCUMENT THAT MAY HELP YOU TC REFRESH 

YOUR RECOLLECTION. 

A. OKAY. OKAY. ANY PARTICULAR PAGE? 

Q. THIS IS A DOCUMENT THAT’S PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS 

PETITIONER’S EXHIBIT 9. DID YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT, 

DETECTIVE? 

AR. WELL, LIKE I SAY, THESE ARE THE PAPERS 1 SAW THIS 

MORNING, OKAY. 

Q. NKAY. 

A. AND I KNEW THAT HE WAS TAKING NOTES AT THE TIME WE WERE 

OUT THERE. 

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER REASON TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY 

ARE CONTEMPORANEOUS NOTES OF MR. PARKER? 

A. THAT THEY ARE NOT? THESE ARE —- I BELIEVE THESE ARE THE 

SAME ONES HE HAD. 1 ALSO -- WELL, AS FAR AS I KNOW THESE ARE 

THE SAME ONES HE HAD. 

Q. DID YOU WATCH HIM DURING THE COURSE OF TAKING THESE 

NOTES? 

A. DID I WATCH? 

Q. DID YOU WATCH HIM IN THE COURSE OF TAKING THE NOTES? 

    
  

 



—
 

vv
 

© 
N
O
 

A 
P
w
 

WN
 

  

  

| A. WELL. YEAH, HE WAS IN PLAIN VIEW OF ME WHERE I COULD SEE 

HIM. WE WERE SITTING IN THE SAME ROOM, RIGHT. 

Q. LET ME TURN TO PAGE 4 OF THE LONGER PORTION OF THE 

STATEMENT, THE EIGHT AND A HALF BY THIRTEEN PORTION. AND 

DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION HALF WAY DOWN DOWN THE PAGE. THERE‘S A 

SERIES OF STATEMENTS THAT SAY "HALFWAY HOUSE. 1 WAS A TRUSTEE 

AT." THEN IT HAS THE NAME OF FRANK KENNERBREW, CTC DIRECTOR. 

THEN IT HAS TWO PERSON‘S NAMES, LIEUTENANT GOULD. LIEUTENANT 

WHITMIZE, PAREN, COUNSELOR. DO YOU RECALL HIS CONVERSATIONS 

ABOUT THOSE TWO INDIVIDUALS? 

A. NO, I DON“T. NO, I REALLY DON’T. 

RQ. TO THE RIGHT OF THAT THERES A SIGN AND THEN SOMETHING 

THAT SAYS "CAN VERIFY -- " IT LOOKS LIKE NUMBER HERE, "HELPED 

THEM. THAT’S WHY I WAS PUT IN “S.“" DO YOU REMEMBER? 

A. I DON‘T SEE THAT. WHERE IS THAT, ON THE SAME PAGE? 

Q. RIGHT BY THE NAMES LIEUTENANT GOULD AND LIEUTENANT 

WHITMIRE? 

A. OKAY. TO THE RIGHT OF THAT. OKAY. 

Jd. YEAH. "HELP THEM." 

A. NO, LIKE I SAY, I DON‘T RECALL. THE ONLY THING, I’M 

SEEING IT HERE NOW. 

Q. DID HE DISCUSS WITH YOU WHY IT WAS HE WAS IN SOLITARY 

CONFINEMENT? 

A. NO. BUT ILL TELL YOU WHAT NOW. I DO REMEMBER SOMETHING, 

IF YOU GET BACK HERE TO THE NAME FRANK KENNERBREW. NOW, I DO 

   



  

24 

295 

  

  

BELIEVE SOMEBODY NAMED KENNERBREW IS A -- AT THE FEDERAL 

PRISON I THINK. IM NOT SURE. I THINK THAT NAME —— LIKE I 

SAY NOW, IF WE TALK ABOUT IT DIFFERENT THINGS COME BACK TO ME. 

I DO REMEMBER THE NAME KENNERBREW NOW. 

@. THAT‘S WHAT REFRESHING RECOLLECTION IS ALL ABOUT. 

A. I THINK KENNERBREW IS A GUY THAT WAS WORKING AT THE —- 
FOR THE U.S. PENITENTIARY SYSTEM AND WAS STATIONED OUT ON 
MCDONOUGH BOULEVARD AT THE U.S. PRISON. 1 THINK THAT. I 

THINK THAT’S WHO THAT IS. 

@. WHAT DID MR. EVANS TELL YOU ABOUT MR. KENNERBREW AND HIS 

RELATIONSHIPS WITH HIM? 

A. THAT I DON’T KNOW. NOW. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I DO NOT 

KNOW BUT 1 SAY THE NAME —-— THE NAME, AFTER I LOOK AT THE NAME, 
1 SEE CTC DIRECTOR. I‘M THINKING ABOUT A GUY NAMED 

KENNERBREW. A TALL GUY. 

THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW LIEUTENANT GOULD OR 

LIEUTENANT WHITMIRE? 

THE WITNESS! NO, SIR. I DON’T. I DON’T RECALL ANY 

OF THAT. 

BY MR. BOGERS 

@. DID YOU AT ANY POINT AFTER THIS JULY 12TH INTERVIEW MAKE 
ANY EFFORT TO DETERMINE MR. EVANS’ RELIABILITY? 

A. I DON’T RECALL DOING ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY AFTER RUSS GOT 
THE NOTES, AND LIKE I SAID SEVERAL OTHER THINGS WERE GOING ON 

AND ASKED ME WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE. I DON’T KNOW BECAUSE IT 

  

 



  

  

  

204 

WAS PRETTY HECTIC AROUND THERE THEN. BUT THE ONLY THING I CAN 

TELL YOU, THE NEXT ENCOUNTER I HAD WITH EVANS WAS ON, 

ACCORDING TO THE INFORMATION THAT —- I LOOKED AT THE STATEMENT 

THIS MORNING —-- WAS AUGUST THE 1ST, AS FAR AS I KNOW, WHEN WE 

GOT THE TYPEWRITTEN STATEMENT FROM HIM. 

Q. WELL, DID YOU CHECK WITH MR. KENNERBREW TO FIND QUT 

WHETHER OFFIE EVANS HAD PREVIOUSLY HELPED HIM OUT? 

A. I RECALL MAYBE GOING BY THERE. I DON’T KNOW WHETHER I, 

MYSELF, SPECIFICALLY WENT IN THERE AND TALKED WITH HIM OR NOT. 

I BELIEVE I DID TALK WITH HIM BUT I DON’T KNOW -- I WILL SAY 

THIS. IF I WENT AND TALKED TO HIM, I AM QUITE SURE THAT I 

ASKED HIM ABOUT EVANS. I“M QUITE SURE OF THAT. 

Q. WOULD THERE BE ANY WRITTEN NOTATION THAT WOULD REFLECT 

THAT CONVERSATION? 

A. YEAH: I SHOULD HAVE. 

XQ. SO IT SHOULD BE IN THAT FILE? 

A. RIGHT. IF ONE WAS MADE, RIGHT. 

Q. OKAY. 

A. IF ONE WAS MADE. RIGHT. 

Q. WOULD YOU HAVE SOME VAGUE SENSE THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE 

TALKED WITH HIM? 

A. I MIGHT HAVE TALKED TO HIM. I MIGHT HAVE JUST FILED IT 

AWAY MENTALLY. I DON‘T KNOW BUT I DO -- LIKE I SAY, I“M 

SITTING BACK HERE GETTING A MENTAL PICTURE OF THIS GUY 

KENNERBREW. I VAGUELY REMEMBER WHO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW 

  

 



  

p
n
 

Qe
 

@D
 
N
O
 
A
d
 

N
 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

23 

  

  

20% 

WHEN YOU SAY KENNERBREW. I“M PRETTY SURE THATS GOING TO BE 

THE SAME PERSON. 

Q. DID YOU DISCUSS WITH MR. JOWERS OR DETECTIVE JOWERS OR 

MR. PARKER WHETHER OR NOT YOU COULD RELY ON THE WORD OF MR. 

EVANS PRIOR TO AUGUST? 

A. WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD RELY ON HIM? 

Q. DID YOU BELIEVE HIM? 

A. WELL, YOU SET BACK AND TAKE CERTAIN THINGS INTO 

CONSIDERATION, ESPECIALLY THINGS THAT YOU OBSERVED ON THE 

SCENE I GUESS, AND YOU WOULD SIT BACK AND TRY TO WEIGH IT AS 

TO WHAT HE SAID. BUT I’M THE KIND OF PERSON LIKE THIS, I 

DON’T TAKE EVERYTHING ON FIRST -- YOU KNOW, FIRST COME. FIRST 

SERVE: BASIS. IT TAKES A TIME. IT TAKES AWHILE. I HAVE TO 

BE ABLE TO CORROBORATE WHAT HE SAYS OR ANYBODY ELSE SAYS WITH 

WHAT 1 FIND ON THE SCENE OR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY 

ABOUT A PARTICULAR INCIDENT. 

SO I CAN‘T SAY —- I“M PRETTY SURE AT SOME POINT IN 

TIME WE WERE ABLE AT SOME POINT TO VERIFY HIS RELIABILITY AS 

TO CERTAIN THINGS THAT HE WAS TELLING US. | 

@. HE WENT BACK TO THE CELL AFTER YOU FINISHED SPEAKING WITH | 

HIM, IS THAT RIGHT? 

A. YEAH, BUT YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE ME A DATE ON THAT. 

WENT BACK TO THE CELL ~-- 

Q. THE SAME DAY YOU HAD THE FIRST INTERVIEW? 

A. I WENT BACK TO THE CELL. 

  

 



  

 
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
 

Q
i
 

B
N
 
O
D
 

24 

235 

  

  

206 

Gl. NO, HE WENT BACK TO THE CELL. MR. EVANS? 

A. WELL, WE LEFT HIM WITH THE DEPUTY. I ASSUME HE DID. 
  

  
  

Q. YOU ALL LEFT TOGETHER? 

A. RUSS PARKER, I. AND 1 BELIEVE DORSEY. WE ALL LEFT 

TOGETHER. WHOEVER THE THREE WERE THAT WENT OUT WITH ME, WE 

LEFT TOGETHER. 

Q. YOU INDICATED MR. —— OR DETECTIVE DORSEY HAD ARRIVED 

SEPARATELY OR AT LEAST HE HADN‘T GONE -- 

A. NO, WHAT IM SAYING IS I KNOW THAT RUSS PARKER AND I WAS 

THERE. I HAD TO — HAD A TYPE OF VAGUE RECOLLECTION AS TO WHO 
  

THE THIRD PERSON WAS BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS DORSEY. I THINK 1 
EE 

SAID THAT. I BELIEVE IT WAS DORSEY. 

  

RQ. OKAY. DID YOU GET BACK IN TOUCH WITH MR. EVANS BEFORE 

THE 1ST OF AUGUST? 

A. I DONT RECALL GETTING BACK IN TOUCH WITH HIM, NO, SIR. 
  

@. YOURE NOT SURE ABOUT THAT? 

A. 1 SAY I DON’T RECALL GETTING BACK IN TOUCH WITH HIM UNTIL 

THE 1ST OF AUGUST AND I THINK IT WAS -— WELL, I KNOW IT WAS 

RUSS, MYSELF. AND I THINK ONE OF THE INVESTIGATORS, GRADY 

ESKEW. THE ONE THAT TOOK THE STATEMENT FROM EVANS, AND THAT 

WAS ON AUGUST THE 8TH. I MEAN, I‘M SORRY, AUGUST THE 1ST I 

BELIEVE, 8-1-78. 

@. SO GRADY ESKEW WAS THE ONE WHO TOOK THE STATEMENT. BY 

THAT YOU MEAN —-— 

A. NO, WHAT IM SAYING BY THAT IS THAT IT WAS A JOINT THING, 

  

  

 



  

T
y
 

o
a
 

O
N
 

23 

24 

  

  

207 

A JOINT EFFORT. WHAT I‘M SAYING IS THESE PEOPLE WORK FOR THE 

DAS OFFICE. I WORK FOR THE CITY OF ATLANTA AND THAT“S THE 

WAY -- AND RUSS PARKER WAS THE PROSECUTING ATTORNEY. AND IF 

I’M NOT MISTAKEN GRADY ESKEW AT THAT TIME WAS HIS ASSISTANT, 

HIS AIDE OR INVESTIGATOR. 

ol. OKAY. SO ON THE 1ST OF AUGUST YOU SAW MR. EVANS AGAIN? 

A. YES, SIR. 

a. AND WHERE WAS THAT? 

A. I BELIEVE THAT WAS TAKEN AT THE COURTHOUSE. 

XQ. THE COURTHOUSE? 

A. YEAH. I BELIEVE AT THE FULTON COUNTY COURTHOUSE. I 

BELIEVE THAT’S WHERE WE CARRIED HIM AND GOT THAT STATEMENT, 

FULTON COUNTY COURTHOUSE. | 

Q. WHO BROUGHT HIM OVER? 

A. I DONT KNOW WHETHER WE -- I“M SURE WE DIDN‘T TRANSPORT | 

HIM. I THINK HE WAS TRANSPORTED BY A COUNTY AUTHORITY, BY THE | 

FULTON COUNTY AUTHORITIES. 

Q. DO YOU RECALL THEN WHERE IN THE COURTHOUSE YOU MET WITH 

HIM? 

Ae THE ONLY THING I CAN TELL YOU IT WAS AN OFFICE. I 

BELIEVE IT HAD TO BE ON THE THIRD FLOOR IN ONE OF THE DA‘S 

OFFICE UP THERE. I COULDN‘T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT OFFICE NOW 

BUT wwe 

  

Q. HAD ANYBODY IN THE INTERVENING PERIOD, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, 
— 
  

GOTTEN BACK IN TOUCH WITH HIM. I MEAN -- 
eo   

  

 



  

pt
t 

g
H
 

O
R
S
 

W
N
 

= 
= 

S
E
 

= 
S
E
 

I
 

A
R
 

»
 

WW
 
N
e
 

oO
 

16 

17 

24 

23 

  

  

2093 

A. HIM, WHO? 

QA. MR. EVANS, RIGHT? 

A. NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. LIKE I SAY. YOU ASKED ME WHILE AGO 
  

DID I GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM. I DIDN‘T GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM. 
  

  

A ————— — 

I DON’T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF ANYBODY ELSE GETTING IN TOUCH 

WITH HIM. 

a. WHEN YOU GOT HIM INTO THE ROOM ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE 

COURTHOUSE ON THE 1ST OF AUGUST. WHAT DID YOU DO? HOW DID THE | 

TAKING OF THIS WRITTEN STATEMENT OR THE WRITTEN STATEMENT IN 

THIS CASE OCCUR? 

A. WELL, I THINK IT JUST —- BASICALLY, HE JUST STARTED 

TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE KNEW AND WHAT HE HAD OVERHEARD. 

@. LET ME JUST -- SO THAT EVERYBODY HAS THE SAME DOCUMENTS 

IN FRONT OF THEM, GET A COPY OF PETITIONER’S 8 I BELIEVE AND 

SHOW IT TO YOU. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT DOCUMENT? 

A. YES. SIR. 

@. WHAT IS THAT? 

A. THIS IS THE STATEMENT OF OFFIE EVANS. 

@. OKAY. 

A. OFFIE GENE EVANS. 

Q@. IS YOUR SIGNATURE THE ONE THAT’S THE SECOND ONE? 

A. MINE WOULD BE THE SECOND ONE, YES. SIR. 

@. LET’S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THIS STATEMENT GOT 

TAKEN IN THAT ROOM ON THAT DAY. YOU SAY MR. EVANS WHAT, BEGIN | 

TALKING OR DID YOU ASK HIM QUESTIONS? 

  
  

 



  

Fa
y 

Nv
 

@®
 

NN
 
O
A
 

Pd
 
W
N
 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

1a 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

  

  

A. WELL, HE KNEW -- OKAY, BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT 

HAMILTON HAD CALLED US OUT TO THE JAIL. HE KNEW THE REASON WHY 

HE WAS THERE. THAT WAS TO GIVE A STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT HE HAD 

OVERHEARD, THE CONVERSATION HE HAD HEARD BETWEEN MR. MCCLESKEY 

AND MR. DUPREE. 60 HE JUST, YOU KNOW, HE STARTED —- IT WAS 

NOT COERCED BY US. 

WE TOLD HIM TO JUST TELL IT THE WAY HE HEARD IT AND 

HE STARTED QUT WITH, "I AM A FULTON COUNTY -- " YOU KNOW, “I 

AM IN FULTON COUNTY JAIL. CELL NUMBER ONE, NORTH 14." HE 

STARTED THAT WAY. NOT AT QUR ASSISTANCE. THIS WAS HIM 

SAYING. HE JUST STARTED TALKING. 

Q. NOBODY SAID. OFFIE. WE ARE HERE TO TAKE THE STATEMENT IN 

WRITING? 

fe IM SURE -- YOU KNOW. THE TYPEWRITER IS SITTING -- HE’S 

SITTING THERE BEFORE A TYPIST. HE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE 

TAKEN DOWN. 

| 

{ 
i 
! 

Q. IS THIS A VERBATIM STATEMENT? I MEAN. IN OTHER WORDS. OR 

WERE THERE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS AND THE SORT OF SHAPING OF 

SOME OF THIS? DID YOU ALL INTERVENE OR DID YOU JUST LET HIM 

GO AND TAKE THE DICTATION IN EFFECT? 

A. HE ~— TO MY RECOLLECTION. HE JUST STARTED NORMALLY LIKE, 

YOU KNOW —- IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU‘RE TAKING A STATEMENT, IF 

I INTERCEDE IT’S NOT HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS HIS STATEMENT, 

NOT BY MY ASSISTANCE. HE KNOWS WHAT I WANT IT FOR, WHAT HE 

KNOW, WHAT HE OVERHEARD. THAT’S ALL I WANT, THE TRUTH. IN 

  

 



  

M
o
m
 
N
A
 

D
W
N
 

es
 

1.
 

Oo
 

pu
b 

-
 

12 

13 

24 

23 

  

  

OTHER WORDS, AS FAR AS ME INSISTING THAT HE SAY CERTAIN 

THINGS, NO,» SIRs I DIDN‘T PUT WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH. NO. 

@. WELL, WHO WAS ACTIVE AS YOU ALL TALKED THROUGH IT, 

THOUGH? YOU SAID MR. ESKEW WAS INVOLVED. WAS MR. PARKER 

THERE? 

A. WELL — OKAY. RUSS PARKER WAS THERE. I THINK IF YOU LOOK 

BACK HERE ON ONE OF THESE PAPERS YOU SEE WHERE A QUESTION AND 

ANSWER SESSION. I DON’T KNOW WHETHER WE CONDUCTED ONE. I’M 

PRETTY SURE WE DID BECAUSE THAT’S BASIC PROCEDURE. 

@. I THINK ON THE LAST TWO PAGES THERE IS SOME QUESTIONS? 

A. BASICALLY, WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IS -- OKAY. 

@. NOW.» YOU TALKED ABOUT HIS TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE 

OVERHEARD. AS I LOOK THROUGH THIS STATEMENT. THERE APPEAR TO 

BE SOME STATEMENTS RIGHT AT THE VERY BEGINNING ABOUT WHAT HE 

OVERHEARD FROM THE PIPES BETWEEN HIMSELF. BETWEEN MR. 

MCCLESKEY, AND MR. DUPREE, BUT THEN HE TALKS ABOUT ANOTHER | 

SERIES OF OCCASIONS IN WHICH HE COMES AND TALKS WITH WARREN | 

MCCLESKEY AND INTRODUCES HIMSELF AS BEN WRIGHT“S UNCLE, AND 

SAYS HIS NAME IS CHARLIE AND THAT HE KNOWS WHATS GOING ON. 

SO THATS REALLY NOT WHAT HE OVERHEARD, THAT PART AT LEAST. 

THATS —- 

A. THAT’S DIRECT CONVERSATION BETWEEN HE AND MCCLESKEY I 

GUESS. | 

@. RIGHT. DID HE EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY HE BEGAN THOSE 

CONVERSATIONS AND WHY HE SAID HE WAS MR. WRIGHT’S UNCLE? 

  

 



  

di,
 

d
e
 
B
C
 

SR
 

a
e
 

I 
e
R
 

IY
 

  

  

211 

CA. I THINK IT WOULD BE SAFE TO ASSUME THAT ANYBODY THATS IN 

| JAIL WOULD, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT SOMEBODY TALKING, YOU ARE JUST 

| MAKING INQUIRIES, JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT HE CAN FIND OUT 

FOR WHATEVER REASONS. I COULDN‘T TELL YOU WHAT HIS MOTIVES 

WERE. 

Q. BUT YOU SAID HE UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS INFORMATION WOULD BE 

USEFUL TO YOU ALL? 

A. WELL, THATS COMMON KNOWLEDGE, THAT IT WAS DEFINITELY -- 

YES, SIR, WE WANTED THE INFORMATION, YEAH. BUT NOW I‘M SAYING 

THAT INFORMATION EVIDENTLY WAS GOTTEN BEFORE. YOU KNOW, BEFORE 

HE CONTACTED US. 

. OKAY. SOME OF THE STATEMENTS IN HERE HE SAYS RELATE TO A 

TIME BEFORE HE SPOKE WITH YOU ALL ON THE 12TH. HE TALKS ABOUT 

THE JULY THE 8TH, JULY THE 9TH, JULY THE 10TH, AND SO FORTH. 

AND THEN LATER ON HE SAYS THERE‘S A PERIOD WHEN HE AND 

MCCLESKEY ARENT TALKING TWO OR THREE OR FOUR DAYS, AND THEN 

HE SAYS LATER ON THEY BEGIN TALKING AGAIN. 

DID YOU ASK HIM TO SEPARATE OUT THE INFORMATION HE 

LEARNED BEFORE HE SPOKE WITH YOU) THE FIRST TIME FROM THAT 

WHICH HE LEARNED LATER OR DID YOU ASK HIM JUST TO TELL IT IN A 

STRAIGHT CHRONOLOGY? 

A. I HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT. I JUST TOLD HIM TO TELL ME 

WHAT HE HAD -- WHAT HE KNEW. I JUST LET HIM -- LIKE I SAID, I 

DIDNT COACH HIM OR ANYTHING. I JUST LET HIM START TALKING. 

Qa. RIGHT. 

  

 



  

-
 

vv
 

0 
«N

N 
0
0
 
G
R
O
W
N
 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

23 

  

  

212 

A. JUST LIKE I DID —- LIKE I SAY. HE STARTED OUT WITH THE 

FIRST WORD, "I AM," 

eo. RIGHT, BUT HE HAD OBVIQUSLY STAYED ALERT AT THE TIME 

AFTER HE HAD MET WITH YOU ALL ON THE 12TH OF JULY. I MEAN HE 

HAD ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. ISN‘T THAT CORRECT? 

A. DID HE DO WHAT NOW? 

Q. AFTER HE HAD GONE BACK TO THE CELL ON THE 12TH OF JULY HE 

HAD KEPT HIS EYES AND EARS OPEN. HE HAD ADDITIONAL | 

INFORMATION HE HAD LEARNED FROM MR. -- FROM MR. MCCLESKEY AT 

THAT TIME? 

A. WELL, THAT I COULDNT SAY. 

Q. WELL. YOU HAD HEARD THE FIRST INTERVIEW? 

A. I HAD HEARD THE FIRST INTERVIEW. IT SEEMED LIKE TO ME IT 

WAS BASICALLY THE SAME THING. NOW. IF HE HEARD ANYTHING ELSE 

I CANNOT SIT HERE AND TELL YOU THAT HE TOLD ME. SAID, WELL, 

SINCE I HAVE TALKED TO YOU ON THE 12TH I HAVE FOUND THIS OUT. 

I DON’T RECALL HIM SAYING THAT. HE JUST GAVE US A COMPLETE 

STORY AS BEST HE COULD TELL IT I GUESS. 

ol. WELL, IN HIS TESTIMONY -—- I MEAN IN HIS WRITTEN 

STATEMENT, THOUGH, HE IN FACT SAYS THERE'S SOME EVENTS THAT 

TOOK PLACE AFTER MY INTERVIEW. LET ME JUST SHOW YOU AN 

EXAMPLE. LET“S LOOK ON PAGE 14, HE TALKS ABOUT THE TELEPHONE 

NUMBERS? 

AR. oKAaY. WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT NOW? 

Ble TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. READ ON PAGE 14 FOR JUST A MINUTE. 

  

 



  

  

| 
| 

| 
1 

  

ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN HE SAYS -- HE TALKS ABOUT PIECES OF PAPER. 

| THIS IS THE SAME PIECE OF PAPER THAT I GAVE TO DETECTIVE 

HARRIS, DETECTIVE DORSEY, AND DISTRICT ATTORNEY PARKER, WHEN 

THEY CAME TO INTERVIEW ME. 

A. UH-HUH (AFFIRMATIVE). 

Qo. THERE WERE TWO PIECES OF PAPER AND HE MENTIONS HE TRIED 

| TO CALL WHILE YOU WERE THERE BUT COULDN’T REACH THESE TWO 

PEOPLE FOR MR. MCCLESKEY. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT ON THE 12TH? 

A. UH-HUH (AFFIRMATIVE). 

Q. YOU REMEMBER THAT TELEPHONE CONVERSATION? 

A. I REMEMBER. 

eo. THERES NO CONVERSATION. HE DIDN‘T MAKE CONTACT? 

A. YES, SIR. 

Q. AND THEN IT SAYS WHEN I GOT BACK TO THE CELL I TOLD 

MCCLESKEY IN EFFECT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND HE SAID. OKAY, SHE 

WILL PROBABLY BE OUT HERE SUNDAY. THEN ON THEY GO. THAT’S 

OBVIOUSLY INFORMATION THAT HE LEARNED AFTER HE TALKED WITH YOU 

THE FIRST TIME. AT LEAST THAT’S WHAT HE SAYS. 

A. OKAY. A NOTE WITH A TELEPHONE NUMBER ON IT. 

Q. RIGHT. 

Q. NOW, I SUPPOSE THE STATEMENT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, DETECTIVE 

HARRIS, BUT PLAINLY HE IS RECORDING EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE 

AFTER YOU AND HE SPOKE ON THE 12TH FOR THE FIRST TIME. AT 

LEAST THATS WHAT HE SAYS. 

A. OKAY. 

  

 



  

oo 
BR
E 

B
E
 

x 
SE

 
D
E
 

a 
vv

 
© 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

  

  

214 

THE COURT: WHERE ARE YOU? 

MR. BOGER: I“M STILL ON PAGE 14, YOUR HONOR. 

BY MR. BOGER? 

Q. SO YOU SIMPLY DIDNT SORT THAT OUT. YOU LET HIM SAY WHAT 

HE HAD TO SAY? 

A. RIGHT. I JUST LET HIM SAY WHAT HE HAD TO SAY. 

Q. OKAY. WHEN YOU DID ASK HIM —-~ HE GETS TO A PART WHERE HE 

HAS TALKED AT GREAT LENGTH ON PAGE THIRTEEN, AND THEN THERE‘S 

A WHOLE CHANGE IN THE STRUCTURE OF THE STATEMENT. HE SAYS, 

"SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT MCCLESKEY AND DUPREE SAID 

DURING THEIR CONVERSATIONS WERE, A," AND THEN HE GOES ON AND 

HE DOESN‘T HAVE A B OR A C BUT THERE’S SOME LITTLE STARS. 

LIKE ON PAGE 15, THERE’S SOME STARS. AND PAGE 14 THERE’S SOME 

STARS, AND 17. 

HOW DID THAT PORTION OF THE STATEMENT GET WRITTEN? 

DID HE SAY.» "PLEASE PUT THREE STARS ON THE LEFT" OR AT SOME 

POINT DID HE SORT OF STOP HIS INITIAL NARRATIVE AND YOU START 

ASKING HIM SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? 

A. NO, I DON‘T THINK WE DID THAT. JUST LIKE HE SAID RIGHT 

HERE, SOME OTHER THINGS THAT MCCLESKEY AND DUPREE SAID DURING 

THAT CONVERSATION. I TOOK IT TO MEAN THAT THESE WERE 

CONVERSATIONS THAT HE -~- OTHER THINGS THAT HE HAD OVERHEARD, 

OKAY. PRIOR TO US BEING CALLED QUT THERE. NOW, AS FAR AS 

THESE LITTLE STARS OUT HERE, I DON’T KNOW OTHER THAN THE FACT 

I DON’T KNOW. I COULDN‘T TELL YOU THAT. YOU HAVE GOT FOUR   
  

 



  

24 

23 

  

  

215 

AND YOU HAVE GOT THREE. 1 DON’T KNOW. 

a. SO YOU DON’T KNOW WHY —- 

A. I'M SURE —-— I DON’T KNOW WHETHER HE TOLD US TO STOP AND 

PUT THE STARS THERE OR NOT. I DON’T RECALL HIM SAYING 

ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 

Q. DID HIS NARRATION GO UNBROKEN FOR TWO HOURS, UNTIL THE 

QUESTIONS AT THE VERY END? 

A. WELL, I IMAGINE, SIR, DURING THE TIME THAT HE WAS TALKING 

I IMAGINE HE STOPPED AT SOME POINT. 

2. AND DID YOU ALL THEN INTERVENE WITH QUESTIONS AND 

COMMENTS? 

A. I‘M PRETTY SURE WE HAD CONVERSATION BUT LIKE I SAY I 

DON’T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS ABOUT. BUT IT WAS NOT A LENGTHY 

CONVERSATION BETWEEN US AND HIM, OTHER THAN THE THE FACT THAT 

HE WAS GIVING US A STATEMENT. BECAUSE ONE THING, WE DIDN‘T 

WANT TO INTERRUPT HIS TRAIN OF THOUGHT. 

Q. WELL, IT LOOKS AT SOME POINT AS IF HIS OWN TRAIN OF 

THOUGHT GETS STOPPED AND THINGS START BACKWARDS. IS IT 

NATURAL TO ASSUME THOSE ARE THE PLACES WHERE MAYBE HIS TRAIN 

OF THOUGHT DID SLOW DOWN AND YOU ALL MAYBE HAD CONVERSATION 

AND THEN THINGS MOVED BACK ALONG? 

A. I THINK IT’S SAFE TO SAY THAT MAYBE HIS TRAIN OF THOUGHT. 

CONCENTRATION, MIGHT HAVE BROKE AT SOME POINT. THEN HE HAD TO | 

SIT BACK AND REFLECT, HIMSELF. THAT’S ALL I CAN TELL YOU. 

BUT AS FAR AS US DELIBERATELY STOPPING HIM OR ANYTHING LIKE 

  

 



  

P
N
 

© 
N 

Oo
 

G
A
»
 

W
N
 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

235 

  

  

THAT, I COULDN’T SAY THAT, FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE 

CONVERSATION. 

THE COURT: MR. BOGER, WE ARE GETTING A LITTLE LATE 

HERE FOR THESE FOLKS WHO HAVE TO GO BACK TO JACKSON. ARE YOU 

ABOUT THROUGH WITH THE BREAD AND BUTTER THAT YOU CAN DO RIGHT 

NOW? 

MR. BOGER: QUITE CLOSE. I WANTED TO CHECK WITH MY 

CO-COUNSEL. BUT LET ME DO THAT FOR A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. 

YOUR HONOR, MR. STROUP HAS TOLD ME THAT HES THROUGH 

ONE BUT NOT TWO OF THESE FILES. THERE COULD BE SOME 

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THAT WOULD HAVE —-- IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL 

IF WE COULD HAVE THE SAME ARRANGEMENT WITH THIS —- 

THE COURT! I EXPECT IT. 1 WAS JUST -- I WANTED YOU 

TO GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER NOW EXCLUSIVE OF HAVING A 

CHANCE TO REVIEW THE DOCUMENTS, AND I GATHER FROM THE TONE OF 

YOUR QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ESSENTIALLY DONE THAT AS WELL AS YOU 

CAN DO IT. WITHOUT HAVING LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AT THIS 

TIME, IS THAT RIGHT? 

MR. BOGER: THERE‘S ONLY ONE OTHER LINE OF INQUIRY 

THAT I NEED TO GO INTO AND IT’S PROBABLY NOT AT THE HEART OF 

THE MATTER. BUT I -— AT SOME POINT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE 

DETECTIVE ABOUT WIRING AND SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES THAT HE MAY 

BE AWARE OF. 

THE COURT: YOU MAY DO THAT IF WE RECALL HIM. LET’S 

JUST ASK ONE QUESTION. 

  

  
  

   



  

vv
 

© 
NN

 
O
A
D
 

W
O
N
 

S
E
 

~ 
SE
 

© 
SE
 

pa
 

A
 

& 
W@
W 
N
r
 

Qo
 

24 

23 

  

  

214 

TONIGHT UNTIL 9130 IN THE MORNING. AND IF THEY NEED TO RECALL 

YOU AND THEY NEED YOU AT 9:30 THEN I‘LL NEED YOU AT 9130. 

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, I UNDERSTAND. 

THE COURT: MAKE SURE YOU ARE WHERE THEY CAN GET 

HOLD OF You, 

THE WITNESS! YES. SIR. 

THE COURT! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO OBTAIN INFORMATION 

ON THE PROCESS THAT LODGED -- 

MR. BOGER®: I“M SORRY, THE PROCESS THAT -- 

THE COURT: WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT YOU HAVE 

THOUGHT OR THATS IN THE RECORD ON THE PROCESS THAT -- RY 

WHICH THE SHERIFF OF FULTON COUNTY HAD LAWFUL CUSTODY OF MR. 

MCCLESKEY. IN OTHER WORDS, SHERIFFS DON’T TAKE CUSTODY OF 

FOLKS JUST TO BE NICE. THEY USUALLY INSIST ON HAVING SOME 

PAPER THAT SHOWS THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE HIM. HAVE 

YOU SUBPOENAED ANY SUCH DOCUMENT? 

MR. BOGER: I DON’T BELIEVE SO. I THINK HE WAS A 

FULTON COUNTY -- I MEAN HE WAS A FULTON COUNTY PRISONER 

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE, TO MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT, PEOPLE WHO 

HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES IN FULTON COUNTY ARE HOUSED PENDING 

TRIAL. 

THE COURTS SO YOU’RE CONTENDING -— DID I ASK ABOUT 

MCCLESKEY? 

MR. BOGER: YOU SAID MCCLESKEY. 

THE COURT: I‘M SORRY, EVANS. 

  

  
  

 



  

a 
Harn 

whi oh Ar lis — 

BE £7 an ol 
A 2 iy of | 

© LG 

ert No Fart
] 

a 

Er I a 
7l 

20L pie
 ult 

ey i 4 £19) 

] rooke 

  

  

(© but k 
pf fos Go infiw 

: 00 fri
 Hwa 

© bi writ 

Eg 
Siri ; 

Digpa
vre 

pz 

© ghost a 
/ Bub. 

ns ol one Fi od 
| (1207 

w— 207) 

0 Wp of Hh 9 
Eller ¢— Jnoorr 

 Dpfbles 

(ffi Een w
i 

     



  

‘Hawi s — PN (activ, 
  

T1195 Rubus of Joe 

leds i : rE mbt of Ze La 

123- Had bo evitn) ik - 115 bea 

194 — Ueed veka, fo vefrssh recolloa A ye 

9¢ Fist cotiitof Hamil Jz pm 
104 (point ir ada Elms = 

  

  

  

   

  

Res vod 
Se igus valk. §) Dosey gusence 
2 Dh wath adh gh, ol bib. wld i 

SE 
oir 1 re) gle id 

Crrshnt al He bine. 

15 - Np ry Jk. J s= S/ . 

  

SH pe Hibs) 

 



  
24 

25 

  

  

  

Ue 

r. TT 
THE COURT: I'm going to break long 

enough to make a phone call -- why don't you 

all come in the chambers, you're welcome to 

be there -- to see what can be done to get 

that working. 

Wae'li be in recess for about five 

minutes. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

THE COURT: All right. For the record 

I've spoken with Ms. Kearns, who has agreed 

to send an attorney and an investigator to 

assist counsel. I1 will break when they 

arrive to let you give them their missions 

if you need for me to break. If one of 

you can give them a mission while the 

other is examining a witness, obviously 

that's preferable, but just tell me what 

you need. 

Call the witness, please, sir. 

MR. BOGER: Detective Harris. 

Whereupon, 

DETECTIVE WELCOME HARRIS, 

having been previously duly sworn, was examined 

and testified as follows: 

TAR de 

  

  

 



  

N
N
 

oO
 

24 

25 

  

  

EXAMINATION - 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q Good morning, Detective Harris, 

A Good morning. 

Q When our testimony concluded yesterday 

you had indicated, I believe, that the name 

Kennebrow may have meant something to you as a 

person you may have gone to see over at the 

Federal Penitentiary. 

A Kennebrough. 

Q Kennebrough, excuse me. 

A Uh-huh. 

Q Let me ask you about a few additional 

names and see if they refresh your recollection 

at all. Does Lieutenant F. W. Grouse mean any- 

thing to you? 

A No, sir. 

THE COURT: Or Gould? 

MR. BOGER: Pardon? 

THE COURT: You've got your notes in 

front of you, but I thought it was Gould. 

MR. BOGER: I have another set of 

notes, Your Honor, that suggests it may 

be Grouse instead of Gould.   
  

  

 



  
24 

25 

  

  

BY MR. BOGER: i 

Q Does Gould mean anything to you? 

A No. These are the names on the right 

side of the piece of paper on the fourth page, 

right, what I looked at yesterday? 

Q Well, that =-- 

A I don't -- no, sir. It doesn't mean 

anything to me. 

MR. BOGER: I have another document 

if I could confer briefly with counsel for 

the State. 

(Whereupon, a discussion ensued off 

the record.) 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q I'd like to show you a document that 

actually has not -- 

MR. BOGER: Perhaps we need to mark 

it for identification. 

M8. WESTMORELAND: Can we use a copy 

as well of the document? I believe I 

gave copies to counsel. 

MR. BOGER: Yes, you did. 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q Do you recognize that document? 

A NO, 8ir. I've never seen it before 

    

 



    

a)
 

0
 

3
 

24 

25 

  

  

that I can recall. - 

Q Do you recognize the handwriting? 

A Well, it looks like the same 

handwriting that you gave me yesterday, if that's 

any ‘indication, I guess Mr. Parker's. 

| Q But you dont know that directly, you 

know that through -- 

A Other than it looks similar to the 

handwriting I saw yesterday. 

Q Let's examine that document for a few 

moments, 

MS. WESTMORELAND: Your Honor, at this 

Point I will have an objection. If Mr, -- 

Detective Barris had seen this document 

before I would have no objection to him 

making some reference to it. Ag he's 

never seen it before, he did not prepare 

the document, has no knowledge of its 

contents, I would object to any questions 

of Detective Harris regarding this docu- 

ment, 

MR. BOUGER: 1'm trying to use the -- 

THE COURT: Wait just a second. 

I don't think he has to have ever seen 

it before to have his recollection refreshed 

  

  

  
i 
1 

 



    

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

  

  

  

by it, but counsel has not asked him any 

question that he {indicates a lack of 

personal recollection about. 

So in essence, I'm sustaining your 

objection but not for the reason you've 

gtatead. 

BY MR. BOGER: 
— 

~~ 0 Detective Harris, do you have any 
  

recollection of learning that Mr. Evans at any 

time was a good informant, that he had provided 

information to other authorities? 

  

  

A Not to my knowledge. I think -I 
  

answered that yesterday. No, sir, not to my 

knowledge. I haven't had any previous dealing 
  — 

with him and I haven't heard anything about it, 
  

  

So, like I said, that's my first meeting with 

him, 

Q But after that time? Did you find out 

subsequently, either directly or through Mr. 

Parker, that he had worked with the Georgia 

Bureau of Investigation? 

A No, sir, I don't recall hearing that. 

Q Or that he had worked with the Atlanta 

penal officials to -- 

A 1 don't recall hearing that.   
        

  

  

 



  

        

  

  

Q Did you have any investigative follow- 

up responsibilities with respect to Offie Bvans? 

A As far as the background on him? 

Q That's right, 

A No, sir, I didn't. 

Q Who didvz 

A Other than ~-- well, I would say other 

than the fact that we talked about the name 

Kennebrough. For some reason I went out there 

and, you know, that could very well have been the 

reason, I'm not sure. I don't recall any 

specifics about dealing with Kennebrough. 

Now, if I'm allowed to Say this, {if 

memory serves me correctly, the only thing I 

Temember Frank Kennebrough saying, and we're 

talking about the same person, he at some point 

had played football with Warren, with Mr. 

McCleskey, and I think he made mention of the 

fact that he was an excellent football player and 

I think words to that effect. And I see 

Bomething on here that indicates that. 

Q Did this document help refresh your 

recollection about that point or did You remember 

that -- 

A Just about -- just going from reading 

  
    

 



  

®
@
 

N
N
 

O
N
 

n
n
 

a
 

  

  
EE 

that, just about that right there, 1 see down 

here at the bottom where it say he Played 

football, was an excellent running back. 

Q Okay. 80 you're refreshed about him 

talking about being a football player, but you 

don't remember anything about Offie Evans? 

A Anything being discussed about Offie 

Evans, no, I really don't. 

Q Because obviously you didn't go out to 

talk about whether Warren would make the team in 

person. 

A No, I'm saying Kennebrough brought this 

up. 

Q Right, 

A I don't recall -- I say it could have 

been for that particular reason, but I just don't 

really recall the specifics of the conversation. 

Q Did you make any police report, a 

supplementary homicide report of any sort about 

your conversation with Mr, Kennebrough? 

A No, because basically I didn't see 

where it was really anything that would have any 

bearing on anything at that time. As far as 1 

remember, now, Like I say, I don't have any 

notes and I don't think it's anything contained 

  

     



  

n
N
 

&
 

Ww
W 

O
N
 

  

  

in the folder that you have over -there. 

Q Okay. 

A The one that we had yesterday. 

Q Did you -- after you met with Mr. 

Kennebrough did you report back to anybody, did 

you report to Mr. Parker? 

A NO, not really. Not that I recall. 

Q Were you simply acting as an 

independent agent? 

A I'm not -- no, I was working for the 

police department, not acting as an independent 

agent, but by the same token, I'm not under 

constant supervision, you Know, 

Q No, I understand, 

A And I can -- and there is a possibility 

that I did talk Russ about going out and talking 

to Mr. Kennebrough, I'm pretty sure that I did, 

But I'm saying ~-- I can't give you a date and 

time when I actually did that, but I'm pretty 

sure I might have something to him about 

Kennebrough. 

Q You had indicated yesterday that by 

this time the case had really passed into the 

hands of the District Attorney. It has passed 

the indictment stage and they had really taken 

  
  

  

  

 



    
24 

25 

  
    

over the principal responsibilities; is that 

correct? 

I'l} 
A Well, {it was a combined effort, 

put {t that way. We were still working on it 

actively in the police department and the 

District Attorney's office was also working on 

Q So you say your recollection now is 

that it's likely, indeed you think you did talk 
_— 

    
with Mr. Parker about going out to Mr, eS his 

Kennebrough? 

  

  

      

  

A Well, we had constant communications 

all the time. 

ps @  OKay: 

p— A 850 -- 

Q §o if you learned anything from Mr. 

Kennebrough when you were out there, it's likely 

that you passed that back to -- 

A Yes, right, Yes, sir. 

Q == Mr, Parker? 

A Right. 

Q Do. you know whether when you spoke with 

him when you got back from speaking with Mr. 

Kennebrough he made notes of your conversation? 

You recall, do you remember, on July   
  

   



  

v
i
 
o
e
 W
w 

24 

25 

    

the 12th that you watched him take notes? 

A I saw him taking notes, right. 

Q Did he take notes when you came back 

from speaking with Mr. Kennebrough? 

A I don't know whether I had actual 

Person-to-person contact with him or whether I 

talked to him on the telephone. Like I say, I 

couldn't tell you a specific date when I went 

back and talked with him, if I talked to him at 

all about this. 

THE COURT: Is there any possibility 

he went with you? 

THE WITNESS: Sir? 

THE COURT: Is there any possibility 

he went with you? 

THE WITNESS: No, sir. NO, Bir. No, 

8ir, Buh-uh, 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q Now, through your conversation with Mr. 

Kennebrough, though, did you obtain any judgment 

about whether Mr. Evans was reliable as a 

witness? 

A Well, like I stated before, you asked 

me whether or not I went out there to discuss 

Offie Evans. I went out there for some reason,   4 -"18"~ | 
  

  

 



  

    
  

That could have very well been the reason. 

Now, are you asking me whether or not 

he knew Offie Evans or what? 

Q I'm asking you whether you obtained any 

information from Mr. Kennebrough that made you 

balieve that Mr, Evans was a reliable witness? 

A Not really, because I just don't recall 

it, Huh-uh. I don't recall him telling me 

anything that -- I don't recall him telling me 

anything that would make me think that -- I don't 

recall him telling me anything about him. 

Q But you weren't sure after you talked 

with him whether he might be an unreliable 

witness? 

A No. 

Q Okay. One final set of questions. 

You said that you didn't make any 
. 

      by 20 

follow-up visits to Mr. Evans between July the 
      

(—— ER 

12th and August the 1st; 19787? 
a 

  

  

  

A Not that 1 can recall, no, sir. 
a ———e esd 

id Q And yet in the intervening period you 

Obviously knew, as did the other folks who 

interviewed him, that he was sitting there in the 

call right next to Warren McCleskey; that's 

correct?   
  

| 

 



  

v
i
 

a
 

Nn
 

24 

25 

  
  

rem me ea 

A I would think so, yes, -sir. 

Q Yeah. When you finished your initial 

conversation with him, you must have realized 

that he was the direct witness who would say that 

McCleskey had confessed to the shooting; is that 

  right? 

A Well, overheard a conversation, yeah. 

Q Tnoat's right. 

A Between Warren McCleskey and and | 

Bernard Dupree, yeah. Yes, Sir. 

Q Did you have any other witnesses like 

that, except perhaps co-defendant, Mr. Wright? 

A None that I met, no. 

Q Okay. At the time of the trial nobody 

else came forward that said McCleskey's confessed 

to this crime? 

A Not to my knowledge,   
Q 50 Mr. Evans was plainly an important | 

witness on the question of who was the trigger 

person, at least? | 

A What he heard, right, 

Q Right. SO here you have an important 

witness sitting in the Fulton County Jail -- 

A Right. 

Q -- why didn't you immediately take down   
 



  
24 

25 

      

  

a statement from him? If I were .2a lawyer 1 -~-- 

A I think that would be a problem with 

the logistics at that point. We didn't have any 

-~= we didn't have a typist. Like I say, we 

talked to him at the Fulton County Jail in 

Captain Wocrthy's office. Captain Worthy made hie 

office available to us and Mr. Parker, like I 

indicated before, took down the notes. 

Q Oh, 1 understand that, but you've told 

us that you all were working night and day and at 

one point you said -- 

A I'm not saying we worked around the 

clock. I'm saying several -- you had several 

investigators working on it and different shifts. 

We work three shifts. 

Q And you finally came up with a person 

who can say McCleskey's confessed the shooting to 

me, and you go from July the 10th until August 

the lst == 

A When I say -- 

Q -=- "and. nobody can get back out to take 

down a statement? 

MS. WESTMORELAND: l believe it's July 

the 12th, 

BY MR. BOGER: 

  

 



ape 

  

vi 

®
 

N
N
 

ON
 

24 

25 

    

Q Excuse me, July the 12th. 

A Uh-huh, July 12th, Like I £¢til}] say, 

it must have been a problem with logistics and 

I'm saying Mr. Parker had his notes. He is the 

one that was going to prosecute the case. 

Q You were pretty confident, though, that 

during that period between July the 12th and 

August the 1st that Mr. Evans wasn't going to 

change his story, weren't you? 

A That I was confident? No, I was not 

confident, I wouldn't believe it until I saw it 

on paper, and that way I know for a fact that 

it's there, we have it on paper. But I mean, you 

know, people have a right to change their ming 

and when you're talking about a situation like 

this, people do change their minds. People lie, 

I understand that. 

Q But when you have an important -- like 

a key witness in a cop killing such as this -- 

A Yes, sir. 

Q == dO you normally wait a month or two 

before going back to get the statement? 

A Sir, we're talking about circumstances. 

I don't know, just certain circumstances did not 

dictate at that particular time that we do 1¢v.,.1   

  

  

 



  
24 

25   

  

guess, But: like I still say, beazr in mind that 

you got an effort being -- a combined effort 

between the City of Atlanta Police Department and 

the Fulton County District Attorney's office, and 

the Assistant D.A. was there present when the 

firat interview with Evans was conducted. That's 

all I can tell you about it. 

Q Did Mr. Evans make any statements to 

you during that July 12th meeting that gave you a 

sense that he would stick by his story? 

A Well, I guess we had to go on the 

assumption, you assume he would. 

Q All right, Did you ask him at that 

time, if we come back and ask for a statement, 

will you give us a statement in writing? 

A I believe that was asked. I believe 

that would be safe to say. I can't say 

specifically I say it but to me it's common sense 

to ask a question like this. 

THE COURT: Well, that's beside the 

point. Let's move on ahead. 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q And you told him obviously to go back 

to the cell and continue his conversations with 

Mr. McCleskey? 

  
 



  

  

  

  

  

  

    

  

    

  

M56. WESTMORELAND: Your Honor, that 

question states facts that are not in 

evidence before this Court and certainly 

does not reflect the testimony that's been 

given by this witness. 

MR. BOGER: I didn’t say he'd 

previously testified to that, Your Honor. 

THE COURT: Overrule the objection. 

BY MR. BOGER: 

[=o You told Mr. McCleskey -- Mr. Evans, 

obviously, to go back to the cell, keep his eyes 

and ears open for whatever Mr. McCleskey might 

tell him? 

A You're asking me did I tell him that? 

No. I didn't hear anybody else tell him to go 

back and Keep His eyes 252 eats open. 

Q Did you tell him not to continue 

conversations with Mr. McCleskey? 

A I didn't make any suggestion to him at Ere, as i ——— 

Q Did he- ask you what he should do? 

A He did not ask me, as far as I recall. 

what he should do. 

Q Did you express appreciation for the 

evidence that he had already brought to you?   
    

  

   



  
24 

25 

      
    

A Did I say thank you? Yes. 

Q Yes. 

A I.did, 

Q Did you tell him You appreciated 

getting that information, it would help the cage? 

A Yes, gir. 

Q Okay. Did you make clear to him that 

his evidence was an important part of the case? 

A I didn't go into detail like you're 

saying right now. I was not as, maybe as 

eloquent as you are, I said thank you, like I 

said before, thank You for your information. 

Q But it was plain between Mr, Evans 

and -- 

A That we appreciated his help, yes. 

Q Okay. And it was plain that you were 

going to be back on some Occasion to take the 

Statement or at least would have him in the 

Atlanta Police Department to take the statement? 

MS. WESTMORELAND: Your Honor, I'm 

going to have to object. Mr. Boger has 

asked the same question numerous times, 

simply phrased it in di2Ferant ways, and 

I believe Detective Barris has answered -- 

THE COURT: Sustain the Objection to   
    

  
         



  
24 

25 

  

  Ln Le 

asked and answered. i 

Mr. Boger, where we are right now is 

that Mr. Parker's contemporaneous notes 

show that the piece of evidence that you 

are challenging was in the hands of the 

police officers on the 12th. That's what 

you've got to deal with. 

MR. BOGER: I'm aware of that, Your 

Honor. What I'm trying to do is to 

establish a different but related point. 

THE COURT: If he came back on August 

the lst and told him the same thing all 

over again and McCleskey had said it again, 

all over again, and {f they had put nim 

back in the cell as a snitch after the 

12th, it don't make any difference because 

I can suppress that evidence and the 

evidence is still in the hands of the 

District Attorney. 

Do you see what I'm saying? I mean 

that's the problem, You're a smart lawyer, 

I know that, but let's don't take up 

precious time with things that are really 

Off the mark. 

The problem you've got, let's face it, 

  

  

 



  

  
  

    

here right now, i8 Ms, Westmoreland has let 

You go into the ab initio issue and then 

you've got to deal with that July the 12th 

memorandum, What happened after that -- 

I mean even if they violated -- where the 

evidence 18 right pow it don't matter if 

they violated it after July the 12th. 

MR. BOGER: All right, Your Honor. 

I don't have any further questions 

of this witness. 

Oh, forgive me. 

(Whereupon, a discussion ensued off 

the record.) 

MR. BOGER: One final question. 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q Do you know of an F.B.I. agent named 

Rick Kelsey or Dick Kelsey? 

THE COURT: David Kelsey. 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q Excuse me, David Kelsey? 

A NO, 81ir. 

Q Did you have any contact with him in 

19787 

A Not that I recall, huh-uh. 

THE COURT: About your build and as 

  

 



  

24 

25 

      

  

I remember very blond-headed with receding 

hair? 

THE WITNESS: No, s8ir. 

BY MR. BOGER: 

Q Do you know any F.B.I. agent named Rick 

| Barry? 

A I've met him, I've met him. 

Q At what time? 

A Oh, God, years ago. I'm saying -- I'm 

saying when I first met Rick -- I don't him -- 1I 

called him Rick because he used to come to the 

station all the time, it must have been around 

73, 124, 

Q Did you have any contact with Agent 

Barry in this case? 

A Not that I can recall. 

Q Did you ever speak with him about Offie 

Evans? 

A Not that I can recall. 

Q Why was Mr. Barry's card in your file 

then in this case that you let us have -- 

A Well, I mean, let's go back to what 1} 

was saying before, Several people worked on it 

other than me. Couldn't somebody else have put 

1t in there besides me? 

  

  

 



  

  

Q But your testimony is that you didn't 

A I'm saying that I don't recall putting 

it in there. I don't recall discussing Offie 

Evans with Rick Barry, no, sir. 

Q Did you discuss the McCleskey case 

generally with Rick Barry? 

A l don't tecall, sir, I don't believe I 

aid, Me personally, 1 don't believe I did. 

MR. BOGER: Okay. No further questions 

of this witness. 

THE COURT: All Tight, Thank you, sir, 

Are you going to need to cross him? 

MS. WESTMORELAND: Your Honor, we're 

not going to have any questions of 

Detective Harris, 

THE COURT: All right, You're excused. 

Thank you, sir. 

(Whereupon, the witness was excused 

from the witness stand.) 

TBE COURT: Call your next witness. 

1 believe this lady is trying to get 

your attention, Mr. Stroup, 

MR. STROUP: Your Honor, l'm sorry, 

(Whereupon, a discussion ensued off   
Reinet ———— So ——————— 

  

 



  
24 

25 

    

the record.) 

MR. STROUP: All right. We'll call 

Detective Jowers, 

THE COURT: All right. Have your 

Assistants arrived? 

MR. STROUP: I'm not aware that they 

have. 

Whereupon, 

OFFICER W., K. JOWERS, 

having been first duly sworn, was examined and 

testified as follows: 

THE CLERK: Have a seat and state your 

full name. 

THE WITNESS: My name is Officer W. K. 

Jowers. 

EXAMINATION 

BY MR. STROUP: 

Q Officer Jowers, my name is Bob Stroup. 

We haven't had a chance to talk previously, I'm 

here representing Warren McCleskey. 

You're presently employed with the 

Atlanta Bureau of Police Services? 

A Yes, Bir. 

Q And how long have you been employed 

there?