Eaton v. James Walker Memorial Hospital Board of Managers Deposition of Dr. Joseph W. Hooper

    IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA 

WILMINGTON DIVISION
Civil Action No. 932

HUBERT A. EATON, et al,
Plaintiffs,

v.
THE BOARD OF MANAGERS OF 
JAMES WALKER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, 
a Body Corporate, et al,

Defendants.

DEPOSITION OF 
DR. JOSEPH W. HOOPER, JR.

W ild . y . J t a u . ,
Court Reporter

VJfMSC- nHwlVTOUO arfflf T



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ADDENDUM TO DH. EATON*S DEPOSITION

At the conclusion of the deposition of Dr. 
Joseph W. Hooper Jr. on December 13, 1965, at the Custom­
house, Wilmington, North Carolina, counsel for defendants 
agreed that counsel for plaintiffs might offer the 
following in rebuttal to Dr. Hooper's testimony:

p R . H U B E R T  A. E A T O N , having previously been 
duly sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as 
follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION IN REBUTTAL 

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Dr. Eaton, you heard Dr. Hooper refer to some 

splitting of fees by you in 195^ • Would you explain for 
the record what this was and why you had done this?

A Yes, Mr. Chambers, I'll be glad to do that.
I began practicing here in 19^3 with my father-in- 

lav;, Dr. Foster Burnett; and at that time I found that he 
had established a practice of sending back to a doctor 
who referred a surgical case to him, and who had consulted 
with him on this surgical case, what we call a referral 
fee. Just how many years he had been doing this, I don't



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know, but It became a part of our established practice, 
and we did It for three years prior to his passing in 
1945. Following his death, I continued in the same 
office until 1949* and then I built a clinic of my own; 
but I maintained the same type of practice, many of the 
same patients. So as various doctors would refer surgical 
cases to me, in Just about all Instances they would 
write a brief history of the patient with what treatment 
or medication they had given, and refer the patient to 
me for surgery. I considered this as a consultation fee 
and would send back to the referring doctor a fee of 
$10 or $15, $20 or $2 5.

Over the years up until 1954, I never had 
a white physician to send a check back to me, nor did 
any of these doctors ever express any opinion that this 
was a violation of their ethical or moral codes.

I had altogether about ten local white 
physicians, five of whom are presently on the medical 
staff at James Walker Hospital, who have accepted these 
checks over the years.

About 1950 when I began my civil rights 
activities here in this area, these referrals from 
white physicians suddenly dropped off, and I got very 
few referrals between 1950 and 1954 when this check that 
Dr. Hooper referred to was issued. As a matter of fact,



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In 1950 I had five referrals - these are from white 
physicians - and in 1951 I had one referral. I did not 
make an effort to ascertain the number of referrals for 
1952, ’53, or ’54, but I don't think I got hardly any 
at all.

In 1954 this case was sent down to me by 
Dr. Peedin, with a letter of consultation giving a history 
on the patient, what treatment he had givenj and, as I 
had done in previous years, I treated the patient, the 
patient got well, and then I sent him this check. I 
don't recall how much it was for. He sent the check 
back, but he sent my letter over to some of the doctors 
at the James Walker Hospital; and I have been aware for 
a good number of years that this letter was in their 
possession. However, since 195^ > I have not written a 
check to any white physician for the one or two cases 
that have been referred to me.

Q Was this the first occasion, Dr. Eaton, that 
you had to know of the rule in the white medical society 
about the splitting of fees?

A Yes, sir. From 1943 until 195^ I had established 
this pattern. And this had never occurred to me. I 
didn't actually call these checks "fee splitting"; it 
was a matter of referral fees, consultation fees, as we 
refer to them in our letter. We never refer to them as



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fee splitting
Q At that time were you a member of the New 

Hanover County Medical Society?
A At that time I could not have been a member of 

the county medical society, because it was restricted to 
white only.

Q Were you a member of the North Carolina 
Medical Society?

A No, sir. Membership in the North Carolina 
Medical Society was restricted to white only.

Q Were you a member of any of the colleges of 
medicine that Dr. Hooper referred to?

A No. Not only sun I not a member, I'm not 
familiar with siny of their rules or regulations or 
bylaws. I know very little about them, really.

MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions.
MR. HOGUE: I have no questions, but I will

dictate this for the record:
Present at the time this addendum was taken 

was C. D. Hogue Jr., representing the hospital; and 
it is stipulated that this shall be added at the end 
of Dr. Eaton's deposition dated the 7th of September, 
1965.

I certify that the foregoing is a correct 
transcript from the record of proceedings in the 
above-entitled matter. y

Notary Public,/ ---- ---
December 22, 1965



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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA 

WILMINGTON DIVISION
Civil Action No. 932

HUBERT A. EATON, et. al.,
Plaintiffs, 

v.
THE BOARD OF MANAGERS OF 
JAMES WALKER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, 
a Body Corporate, et. al.,

Defendants.

Deposition of Dr. Joseph W. Hooper, Jr., was 
taken by Mr. Cyrus D. Hogue Jr., counsel for defendants, 
before the undersigned Wilda Y. Hauer, Official Court 
Reporter and Notary Public, at 10 a.m. on Monday, December 
13, 1965, in the courtroom of the Unitea States 
Customhouse, Wilmington, North Carolina.

Also present were Mr. Julius LeVonne Chambers, 
counsel for plaintiffs, and Dr. Hubert A. Eaton, one of 
the plaintiffs.

It was stipulated by and between counsel that 
objections, except as to the form of the question, be 
waived until time of trial. It was also stipulated that 
the signature of the witness be waived.

DEPOSITION OF 
DR. JOSEPH W. HOOPER. JR.



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I N D E X

Witness Direct Cross Redirect Recross

Dr. Joseph W. Hooper 3 12

E X H I B I T S

Number Page
Defendants' Exhibit No. 1 of Dr. Hooper's 
Deposition 3

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1 of Dr. Hooper's 
Deposition 14



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D R . J O S E P H  W. H O O P E R  J R ., having been 
duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q Your name is Dr. Joseph W. Hooper Jr., is that 

right?
A That's correct.
Q And where do you live, Dr. Hooper?

2600 Pannele Drive, Wilmington.
What type of medicine do you practice,

A
0,

Doctor?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q

Urology.
Where is your office?
410 North 11th Street.
How long have you been practicing in Wilmington? 
Since July of 1953.
Are you on the staff of James Walker Hospital? 
Yes, sir.
What staff are you presently on at the

hospital?
A The attending staff.
Q And what specialty do you practice at the 

hospital?



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A Urology.
Q At the time you were admitted to the staff of 

the hospital, what procedures were followed?
A In regard to what?
Q In regard to your admission.
A An application was submitted to the director

of the hospital who presented it to the Board of Managers 
who referred it to the medical staff for their recommenda­
tions.

Q Will you state whether or not you were voted 
on when you applied for courtesy staff privileges?

A Yes, sir.
Q Will you state how long you had courtesy 

staff privileges before you applied for attending staff 
privileges?

A Two years, I believe.
Q Would you state whether or not you were voted

on by the attending staff at the time you applied for 
attending staff privileges?

A Yes, sir.
Q Doctor, do you hold any other offices in New 

Hanover County other than medical?
A You mean political office?
Q Political office.
A Yes, sir.
Q What office is that?



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A Chairman of the Board of the New Hanover County 
Commissioners.

Q Now, are you familiar with the bylaw of the 
medical staff which requires applicants to the medical 
staff of James Walker Hospital to be voted on by staff 
members?

A Yes, sir.
Q Are you familiar with the Board of Managers of 

James Walker Hospital?
A You mean do I know them personally?
Q Yes, sir.
A Yes, sir.
Q How many of the members of the Board of

Managers are doctors, if you know?
A Two.
Q Do you recall when the Board of Managers :

two doctors placed on it first?
A I would say it was four or five years ago
Q Are the other members of the Board of Managers 

practitioners of medicine?
A No, sir.
Q Now, doctor, you say you are familiar with the 

bylaw requiring the voting by the staff on members for 
admission to the staff. Can you state for the record the 
for this bylaw?



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A The reason for the bylaw, as I understand It, 
is that a practicing physician on the staff is better 
able to judge an applicant's qualifications than a lay 
board.

Q Now, would you expound on that a little? Would 
this be medical ability, ethics, morals, or what are you 
speaking of when you speak of "better able to Judge" the 
ability?

A I think that can be divided into two parts:
(1) the medical qualifications of the applicant and (2) 
his ethical and moral qualifications as regards his 
practice of medicine.

Q Now, when you say he is better able to Judge 
the medical qualifications, can you state for the record 
why a doctor is better able to Judge the medical qualifica­
tions of an applicant?

A A physician has patients coming to him; he i3 
familiar with the practice of medicine, what constitutes 
good medicine, what constitutes graduate training. Ihis 
information cannot be properly evaluated by a lay board.

Q Now, in regard to the ethical and moral 
attributes of an applicant, why is the medical profession 
better able to Judge that?

A The medical profession is better able to Judge 
that because patients are coming into your office from



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time to time who have been seen by other physicians, and 
information comes to practicing physicians which is of 
a confidential nature which would not be general 
knowledge to lay persons in the community.

Q When you speak of information which comes to 
doctors of a confidential relationship, now, what type 
of information are you speaking of?

A Well, to be specific I am speaking of patients, 
who have been treated by other physicians, who come to 
you with complications resulting from such treatment.

Q Now, would you state whether or not this 
information is such that because of personal privilege 
it cannot be disclosed; that because of the patients' 
privilege it cannot be disclosed, is that correct?

A It could only be disclosed with the patient's
persmission.

Q With the permission of the patient?
A Permission of the patient.
Q Would you state whether or not you feel that 

this Justifies the use of the secret ballot in voting?
A I do.
Q Now, were you on the medical staff when Dr. 

Eaton's application was received?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you present at any meetings when it was



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discussed?
A No, sir.
Q Do you recall receiving ballots on two occasions 

with respect to Dr. Eaton's application?
A Yes, sir.
Q At the time you received those ballots, did 

you take any action with regard to them?
A I marked them and returned them.
Q Doctor, do you mind stating how you marked

them?
A No, sir.
Q How did you mark them?
A I voted against Dr. Eaton on both occasions.
Q Now, Doctor, will you state for the record 

what considerations led you to vote against Dr. Eaton 
on both occasions?

A There were only two.
Q What were they, sir?
A (1) That in my opinion he did not meet the

medical standards of the staff, and (2) certain information 
had come to me that certain practices were unethical.

Q Doctor, do you know of any way that Dr. Eaton's 
application was handled which was different from any 
other doctor who applies for staff privileges at the 
hospital?



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A No, sir.
Q Would you state whether to your knowledge you 

know it was handled in the same manner as all white 
physicians' applications are handled?

A To my knowledge, it was.
Q Now, Doctor, you stated that your vote was 

based partially on certain practices which came to your 
attention. Did these practices come to your attention 
through the New Hanover County Medical Society?

A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall about when these practices came

to your attention?
A About 1954 a letter was submitted to the 

New Hanover County Medical Society, such letter having 
been written by Dr. Eaton to a referring physician. That 
letter is a part of the minutes of the meeting at which 
it was discussed.

Q Do you recall the approximate date of that 
meeting?

A Sometime, I believe, in the spring or fall of
1954.

Q Did you examine the records of the medical 
society and try to find that letter?

A Yes, sir.



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The following letter was offered as 
DEFENDANTS' EXHIBIT NO. 1 of Dr. 
Hooper's deposition.

"Burnett-Eaton Clinic 
"410 North Seventh Street 

"Wilmington, N.C.
"6 - 18 - 54

"Dr. James H. Peedin, Jr. 
"Hie Medical Clinic 
"Burgaw, N. C.
"Dear Dr. Peedin:

"Let me apologize for this delay in 
answering your letter of May 8th regarding Mrs. Allle M. 
Ringer. This patient came in to see me on the same day 
you sent her and my examination confirmed your diagnosis 
of acute appendicitis. She was immediately hospitalized 
and an appendectomy performed. At this time I found a 
very elongated appendix located retrocecally and extremely 
congested.

"Her post-operative course was uneventful 
and she has been discharged. I want to thank you for 
referring this patient to me and thank you for the brief 
but complete medical notes which you included in your 
letter which were so helpful.

"Enclosed find a check for $10.00 as the 
usual consultation fee I send to my referring Doctors. I 
would also like to say at this time that at any time you 
have Colored patients who would like to come to Community 
Hospital for surgery, send them down with a note and I 
will be glad to take care of them for you and send them 
back to you for follow-up treatment.

"Very truly yours,
(Signed) H. A. 
"H. A. Eaton, M

Eaton, 
. D."

M.C.

BY MR. HOGUE:
Q I hand you a letter which has been marked for



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identification Defendants' Exhibit 1 of Dr. Hooper's 
deposition. I ask you to state whether or not that is the 
letter to which you refer?

A It is.
Q Now, Doctor, would you state for the record 

what the ethical rule is among doctors with regard to 
splitting fees or having consultation fees split between 
doctors?

A The attitude of the medical profession - and 
this is absolutely endorsed by the American College of 
Physicians, American College of Surgeons, and the American 
Medical Association, and every national organization to 
my knowledge in this country - is that the splitting of 
fees is unethical.

Q Now, Doctor, what do you mean by "the splitting 
of fees"?

A If a referring doctor is paid directly in 
money by the physician taking care of the patient.

Q Would you state whether or not this is covered 
in the oath which a doctor takes for the practice of 
medicine?

A Yes, it is.
Q Now, Doctor, would you state whether or not 

you treat Negro patients?
A Yes, sir.



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Q What percentage of your practice would you say 
was Negro?

A About 30 per cent.
Q Have you from time to time treated patients

who were formerly treated by Dr. Eaton?
A Yes, sir.
Q Doctor, would you state whether or not in 

your opinion the procedures used at James Walker Hospital 
with respect to the selection of its medical staff have 
resulted in a high standard of medical care being 
maintained at the hospital?

A Yes, sir, it has.
MR. HOGUE: You may examine him.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q Dr. Hooper, you say you were admitted to the 

staff at James Walker in 1953?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have any Negroes then on the staff?
A No, sir.
Q Did you have a provision in your bylaws

preventing Negroes from becoming members of the staff?
A I can't answer that, Mr. Chambers.



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Q Isn't it true that you did have?
A I said I couldn't answer It; I don't know.
Q Do you know whether one had to be a member of

the New Hanover County Medical Association?
A He did.
Q Did you have any Negroes in the New Hanover 

County Medical Association?
A No, sir.
Q In fact, a Negro could not become a member of 

the New Hanover County Medical Association?
A To my knowledge, none had ever applied.
Q You had a bylaw in your constitution, did 

you not, preventing Negroes from becoming members of 
the association?

A Which constitution?
Q The New Hanover County Medical Society.
A Not to my knowledge.
Q You had a provision in your state medical

society?
A I believe that is correct.
Q And you operated pursuant to that, did you

not?
A (No answer.)
Q The New Hanover County Medical Association

operated pursuant to the State medical association?



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A Yes, sir.
Q And the state association prevented Negroes 

from becoming members?
A That is correct.
Q So a Negro could not become a member of the 

New Hanover County Medical Society and, therefore, could 
not become a member of the staff of the James Walker 
Memorial Hospital?

A That is correct.
Q Now, Dr. Hooper, you mentioned something

about unethical practice. Now, you 3aid, according to 
your knowledge, every medical association prohibits 
the "splitting of fees" as you call it?

A Yes.
Q Do you know about the Old North State Medical 

Society?
A Yes, I know something about it.
Q Do you know whether or not it prevents the

splitting of fees?
A No, sir, I do not. I would expect that it 

wouldn't.
Q That it would not?
A Yes, sir.

I
 Constitution and bylaws of 
the Old North State Medical 
Society marked PLAINTIFFS1 
EXHIBIT NO. 1 of Dr. Hooper's 
deposition.



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BY MR. CHAMBERS:
Q I want to show you a copy of the constitution 

and bylaws of the Old North State Medical Society and 
ask you to examine it.

A To which part do you have reference, Mr. 
Chambers? Is there any one particular part of it you 
want me to read?

Q Dr. Hooper, I have no specific provision in 
mind in that copy of the constitution and bylaws. I 
ask you if you would like to examine either the constitu­
tion or bylaws, both attached there, and ask you if 
you find any provision there that prohibits splitting 
fees?

A Well, you have given me about four or five 
pages. It will take a little time. You are saying 
that there is nothing in here that prohibits the splitting 
of fees?

Q That’s correct.
A Well, I would have to accept your word for 

it, unless you want me to read through it.
Q If you would like to--

MR. HOGUE: I will stipulate that you
can file a certified copy of the constitution 
and bylaws of the Old North State Medical 
Society in this record, and that it will speak



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for itself with respect to whether or not there 
is a provision in it against the splitting of 
fees. Is that all right?

(Discussion off the record.)
MR. CHAMBERS: I will Just ask and find

out.
Q Dr. Hooper, you said that splitting fees was 

something prohibited by all the medical societies with 
which you are familiar; is that correct?

A Yes, sir.
Q Now, which medical society are you referring

to, or societies?
A American College of Surgeons, American Medical 

Association, American College of Physicians, the American 
Urological Association, the North Carolina Medical 
Society, the Southern Medical Association; and I 
assume that the Old North State had the same provision, 
Mr. Chambers.

Q But having examined the bylaws and constitution 
of the Old North State, you are unable to find any 
provision that prohibits the splitting of fees?

A Then I would assume that they condone it, in 
its absence.

REPORTER: "'Then' I would assume . . .”?
A (Continuing) I find nothing in there.



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Q At the time that you refer to as receiving this 
letter or attending a meeting at which this letter of 
Dr. Eaton to Dr. Peedin was discussed, Dr. Eaton was 
unable to become a member of the New Hanover County 
Medical Society?

A That is correct.
Q And, therefore, was not bound by the bylaws 

or rules of the New Hanover County Medical Society; is 
that correct?

A I would assume so, yes, sir.
Q If his society, medical society - in fact, the 

only one to which he could belong - did not prohibit 
the splitting of fees, that would not make his practice 
in splitting fees, if he split fees, unethical; is that 
correct?

A I wouldn't agree with that, no, sir.
Q What rule or standard are you using to Judge 

his practice?
A Accepted standard of medical practice in this 

country.
Q Societies to which he could not belong?
A No, sir, I didn't say that.
Q Did you not state that he could not belong to

the New Hanover County Medical Society?



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A Yes, sir.
Q Did you not state that he could not belong to 

the North Carolina Medical Society?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, what society are you referring to?
A Membership in a society has absolutely nothing 

to do, Mr. Chambers, with the way a man practices 
medicine.

Q If one i3 going to adopt certain standards or 
be governed by certain standards, these would be 
standards established by his society, would they not?

A They would be established by society in 
gene ral.

Q How do you know that Dr. Eaton was familiar 
with any rule under the bylaws of the New Hanover County 
Medical Society that prohibited the splitting of fees?

A I believe Dr. Eaton is familiar with the 
Hippocratic oath.

Q Let's get to the Hippocratic oath. Where in 
the Hippocratic oath is one prohibited from splitting 
fees?

A Not in so many words. I do not have it here 
in front of me.

Q What are you referring to in the Hippocratic
oath?



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A If you would get a copy of it, I think it would 
be very clear.

Q I don’t have a copy of it. You referred to 
it, Dr. Hooper.

A There’s a copy in my office.
Q What provision in that oath prohibits splitting

fees?
A I don't have it in front of me, Mr. Chambers.

You may feel free to look it up.
MR. CHAMBERS: Mr. Hogue, will you stipulate

that we can submit with the deposition a copy 
of the Hippocratic oath?

MR. HOGUE: Yes, sir.
BY MR. CHAMBERS:

Q That is the oath to which you refer, is it not, 
Dr. Hooper?

A That is correct, yes, sir.
Q And it is your testimony that the Hippocratic 

oath prohibits the splitting of fees?
A That's my recollection of it, yes, sir.
Q Have you seen the Hippocratic oath recently?
A Recently? I have seen it within the last 

month. There's a copy of it in my office.
Q Now, Dr. Hooper, are you aware of any other 

instance in which Dr. Eaton has been accused of splitting



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fee 8?
A This is the only documented material that I have, 

Mr. Chambers.
Q The only documented material?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was in 1954?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, Dr. Hooper, is it your position that a 

person who splits fees on one occasion should not be 
admitted to the James Walker Memorial Hospital?

A I would have to be assured before I would 
support such a person, Mr. Chambers, that the practice 
had not continued.

Q Now, did you seek such assurance from Dr.
Eaton?

A No, sir.
Q Did you attempt in any way to ask him whether 

he had continued or had done this on another occasion?
A No, sir.
Q You Just assumed that this was sufficient, and 

voted against him for this reason?
A That was one reason, Mr. Chambers.
Q And that one reason played an important factor

in your vote against Dr. Eaton?
A Yes, sir.



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Q And you at no time attempted to find out 
whether this practice had continued or was practiced at 
the time that he made application for staff membership?

A No, sir.
Q Now, is it your position, Dr. Hooper, that if 

one is a member of the staff of James Walker Memorial 
Hospital who splits fees or accepts a payment by a 
physician to whom the staff member has referred a 
patient, that he should be dismissed from the staff?

A Yes, sir.
Q That is your position?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know whether any member of the staff

presently of James Walker Memorial Hospital has received
payment for referral of patients to another physician?

A Not to my knowledge, no, sir.
Q Would it be your position that if such

physician did receive payment, he should be dismissed from
the staff?

A That would be my position, yes, sir.
Q Now, Dr, Hooper, you stated also that the 

other reason for your vote against Dr. Eaton's application 
was that he didn't meet the medical standards of the 
staff?

A Yes, sir.



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Q Now, what medical standards are you referring
to?

A That was based, Mr. Chambers, on privileged 
information that had come to me from patients he had 
treated.

Q What do you mean?
A I cannot give you that information without 

the permission of the patients.
Q You were not referring to his not being a member 

of the American College of Surgeons?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q Nor to any extra training of his beyond medical 

school?
A No, sir. That was based on the results I have 

seen of some of his work with patients that have come to 
m e .

Q Now, would you give us the names of these 
patients?

A Not without their permission, no, sir.
Q How many such patients are you considering?
A Two or three every year.
Q Two or three every year. And it is your

opinion from treating these patients that Dr. Eaton is 
unqualified to practice medicine?

A Yes, sir.



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Q Anywhere.
A Anywhere?
Q Yes, sir.
A In any institution that I've got anything to do 

with the standards of, yes, sir.
Q Now, Dr. Hooper, is it true that as chairman 

of the county board of commissioners you are a member of 
the board of the Community Hospital?

A Yes, sir.
Q Now, do you have anything to do with that 

board ?
A I'm on It, yes, sir.
Q You are a member of that board?
A Yes, sir.
Q Have you sought at any time to relieve Dr.

Eaton of his practice there?
A No, sir. That is a province of the medical 

staff of that institution.
Q The board has nothing to do with the staff 

practices?
A In my opinion the province rests with the 

medical staff, Mr. Chambers.
Q Isn't it true, Dr. Hooper, that the Board of 

Managers of the Community Hospital has authority to 
determine whether a person is to continue practice as a



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A That Is correct, yes, sir.
Q And as a member of the board, you would have 

authority to raise the question if you felt Dr. Eaton 
unqualified?

A Only if that were initiated by the medical 
staff.

Q Why do you feel it could not be initiated by a 
member of the board?

A Because I feel that the medical staff is best 
able to Judge a physician's qualifications.

Q Dr. Hooper, you are a practicing physician, 
are you not?

A Yes, sir.
Q And you stated that you had formed an opinion 

about Dr. Eaton's practice?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you are a member of the board of the 

Community Hospital?
A When I sit on that board, Mr. Chambers, it is 

not as a physician.
Q You sit there as a member of the board?
A That's correct.
Q And any member of the board has the authority 

to raise the question about the qualifications of a staff

staff member?



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A That is correct.
Q Dr. Hooper, we have gone over the part of the 

provision in the bylaws of the hospital prohibiting 
Negro physicians from becoming members. Did you at any 
time do anything to change this provision in the bylaws 
of the hospital?

A Did I as an individual, sir?
Q Did you as an individual?
A This was brought before the staff as I remember, 

I believe it was 1958, and a committee was appointed to 
rewrite the bylaws. I was not on that committee.

Q Did you attempt in any way to institute pro­
cedures to remove the provision barring Negro members?

A Not as an individual, no, sir.
Q Now, Dr. Hooper, you stated that you thought 

the provisions of the bylaws of the hospital regarding 
staff admission were good for the maintenance of high 
standards of the hospital; is that correct?

A Yes, sir.
Q Now, isn't it true that the provisions

presently permit a physician or physicians of the staff 
to discriminate against a Negro applicant for any reason 
they see fit?

A Any applicant.

member of the hospital?



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Q Any applicant. They can discriminate against 
any applicant for any reason they see fit and give no 
account to anybody for it?

A I would not personally feel, Mr. Chambers, 
that a physician or a lawyer or a professional man would 
discriminate against someone because of the suit he 
wore or the color of his skin.

Q Regardless of how you feel, Dr. Hooper, it is 
possible under your present bylaws for a person to 
discriminate against an applicant for any reason he 
sees fit; is that correct?

A I don't feel that a professional man would do
that.

Q It is possible under your bylaws for him to do
that?

A If that Is your interpretation, yes, sir.
Q And he has to give account to no one for that

discrimination?
A He has to give account to no one for the way 

he vote8.
Q Nor why he voted the way he did?
A I would assume so, yes, sir.
Q And it is possible in the voting on the 

application of Dr. Eaton that the physicians discriminated 
against him because of his race; isn't that correct?



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A In my opinion that is incorrect.
Q It's possible; is that correct?
A It's incorrect in my opinion.
Q Why is it incorrect, Dr. Hooper?
A Because I feel that the physicians voted 

against Dr. Eaton for the reasons I stated to you.
Q It is possible that they voted against him be­

cause of his race, though; isn't that correct?
A In my opinion, no.
Q Dr. Hooper, suppose one of the physicians 

voted against Dr. Eaton because he was in favor of the 
Medicare Bill.

A Do you say "suppose" they did?
Q Yes. In your opinion would that be a proper 

reason for voting against Dr. Eaton?
A No, sir.
Q Suppose a physician voted against Dr. Eaton

because he was instrumental in filing a suit against 
the hospital, would that be a proper reason for voting 
against Dr. Eaton?

A In my opinion, no, sir. I stated to you, Mr. 
Chambers, the only two reasons, and it's in the record.

Q That's the only two reasons you voted against
him?

A In my opinion that's the only two reasons any



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professional man would oppose any man applying for mem­
bership on the staff.

Q Now, if a member of the staff of James Walker 
has testified that he voted against Dr. Eaton because he 
thought he was opposed to the "human race" or detrimental 
to the "human race," would that be a good reason for 
voting against Dr. Eaton?

A That would be his way of presenting it, I 
would think, Mr. Chambers.

Q And if his determination of Dr. Eaton's being 
detrimental to the human race were based on the fact 
that he was in favor of the Medicare Bill?

A I couldn't say that is what he meant, no, sir.
Q I say, though, that would be an improper

reason for voting against Dr. Eaton?
A What would be an improper reason?
Q That he was in favor of Medicare.
A Well, I answered that a minute ago, that I

did not feel that that was a proper reason.
Q Would it be a proper reason to vote against 

Dr. Eaton because he was opposed to the new hospital that 
was planned?

A No, sir.
Q That would not be a proper reason?
A In my opinion it would not.



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Q And if a physician stated that he was opposed 
to Dr. Eaton's application because he was opposed to the 
new hospital, you would say that he voted for an improper 
reason?

A In my opinion, yes, sir.
Q Now, Dr. Hooper, is it your opinion that Dr. 

Eaton, other than the reasons you have stated about his 
treatment of some patients you have seen and the 
splitting-fee problem you referred to in 195^* is other­
wise qualified to be a member of the James Walker 
Memorial Hospital?

A That testimony would preclude him being 
qualified, in my opinion, Mr. Chambers.

Q I say other than the two reasons you refer to.
A Yes, sir. But that covers a mighty big area - 

those two reasons.
Q That's true, Dr. Hooper, but these are the 

only two reasons you gave. And I assume other than these 
two reasons, he would otherwise be qualified to be a 
member of the staff?

A In my opinion, yes, sir.
Q Do you feel, Dr. Hooper, that you should be 

required to give more reasons for your determination of 
his failure to practice high standards of medicine than 
that you do not wish to disclose client-physician



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relations?
A I don't mind disclosing client-physician re­

lationships with the patients' permission, Mr. Chambers.
I have no objection whatsoever to doing that.

Q Would you be able to supply the court, Dr. 
Hooper, with the names of these patients?

A With their permission, yes, sir.
Q With the patient's permission?
A Yes, sir.
Q We would be unable to discover the patient's 

name without knowing the patient?
A That's correct.
Q And how would we get the patients' names?
A Only if they gave me permission to furnish

it to you.
Q And you refuse at this time to give us the 

name of the patients?
A Only unless I have their permission, yes,

sir.
Q And you refuse at this time to give us your 

reasons for determining that Dr. Eaton doesn't practice 
high standards of medicine, without the patients' 
permission, is that correct?

A State that again, please, sir.
Q You refuse at this time to give us your reasons



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for saying that Dr. Eaton doesn't practice high 
standards of medicine, without the patient's permission?

A Yes, sir.
Q Dr. Hooper, have you ever observed Dr. Eaton 

in his practice?
A Elaborate on that, Mr. Chambers. Do you mean 

have I ever seen him operate?
Q Have you ever seen him operate?
A No, sir.
Q Have you ever read one of his medical charts?
A Yes, sir, I believe I have.
Q Was it in proper order?
A It has been several years ago, but my 

recollection is that it was.
Q That it was?
A Yes, sir.
Q Have you heard any complaints of Dr. Eaton

at Community Hospital regarding unethical practices 
or failure to practice high standards of medicine?

A Yes, sir. Some I have discounted considering 
the source.

Q Have you any reasons other than what you have 
referred to for the determination that Dr. Eaton doesn't 
practice high standards of medicine?

A No, sir.



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Q Now, Dr. Hooper, If Dr. Eaton has offered to 
split fees on only this occasion in 1954 - and that's 
the only one you say you can refer to - that would 
eliminate, would it not, according to your testimony, 
the second reason you gave for voting against Dr. Eaton?

A I believe, Mr. Chambers, that the letter 
stated that this was his "usual" fee.

Q And that was in 1954?
A And that would indicate to me, if this were 

the usual fee, that this didn't happen on one occasion 
only.

Q Well, if it happened on several occasions, 
and the practice is not now continued, or if you know 
of no other practice than the one you referred to, this 
would eliminate the second reason you gave for voting 
against Dr. Eaton?

A I would have to be assured that the practice 
had ceased and when it ceased.

Q Now, Dr. Hooper, Dr. Eaton still is not a 
member of the New Hanover County Medical Society; is that 
correct?

A I believe that is correct, yes, sir.
Q And he is still not a member of the North

Carolina Medical Society; is that correct?
A As far as I know, yes, sir.



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Q In fact, you only this year changed your 
policy that would permit Negroes to become members; Is 
that correct?

A Pull members, that's correct.
Q Dr. Hooper, are you familiar with Dr. Eaton's 

participation in civil rights activities in New Hanover 
County?

A Yes, sir.
Q Have you attempted in any way to assist in 

the process of integration in New Hanover County?
A Specifically what?
Q Either in your capacity as an elected official 

or in your capacity as a physician.
A Yes, sir.
Q In what way?
A For about a year I have been on the Good 

Neighbor Council, and I have attended approximately 
two-thirds of their meetings. Some of the appointments 
made by the county commissioners have been members of the 
Negro race.

Q Are these the only instances?
A Yes, sir, the only instances that come to mind

right now.
Q Are you referring to the North Carolina

Good-Neighbor Council?



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A No, sir. I am referring to the New Hanover 
County Good Neighbor Council, of which Mr. Kingoff was
the chairman.

Q Dr. Hooper, do you know Dr. Warshauer?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you consider him ethical?
A YeB, sir.
Q Do you know Dr. Reynolds?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you consider him ethical?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know Dr. Black?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you consider him ethical?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know Dr. Knox?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you consider him ethical?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know Dr. Crouch?
A Which one?
Q Auley Crouch Jr,9
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you consider him ethical?
A Yes, sir.



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Q Do you know Dr. H. A. Codington, Sr.?
A He is deceased.
Q Did you consider him ethical?
A He was out of practice for practical purposes

when I began practice. To my knowledge, yes, sir.
Q Do you know Dr. William Dosher?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you consider him ethical?
A He, again, is in the classification of Dr.

Codington, Mr. Chambers. He for practical purposes was 
out of practice in this community when I came here. To 
my knowledge, yes.

Q Do you know Dr. Robert Rodman?
A Yes. That's the same situation.
Q Dr. John Hoddard?
A He wa3 not in active practice.
Q When you started practicing.
A Yes, sir.
Q Dr. Hooper, have you ever treated a Negro

patient or a patient at Community Hospital? 
A Yes, sir.
Q When was that?
A The last patient was the director, Mr. Butler,

E. M. Butler, about two months ago.
Q Who else have you treated there, Doctor?



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A That was the first patient, Mr. Chambers, that 
I had treated over there In eight or ten years.

Q Have you sought membership at the Community 
Hospital?

A Yes, sir.
Q Staff membership?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are you presently a member of the staff?
A The application for attending staff has not

been acted on to my knowledge.
Q Has not been acted upon?
A That's correct.
Q When did you apply, Dr. Hooper?
A Mr. Chambers, it has been some time in the 

last few months. I can't give you the exact date. I
was at one time on the staff over there.

Q You were at one time?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you resign?
A Yes, sir.
Q Why did you resign, Dr. Hooper?
A I found that I could not do justice to patients

in two hospitals at that time.
Q Dr. Hooper, do you know Dr. Wheeler?
A Yes, sir.



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Q Did you vote on his application?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have reason to believe him unqualified 

to practice good medicine?
A No, sir.
Q Did you have reason to believe him unethical?
A No, sir.
Q Did you vote on the application of Dr. Roane?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have reason to believe that he was un­

qualified to practice good medicine?
A No, sir.
Q Did you have reason to believe him to be un­

ethical?
A No, sir.
Q Dr. Eaton is the only physician you believed to 

be unethical and the only one you believed to practice
poor medicine?

A With the information that I have, yes, sir.
Q Did you know Dr. Gray?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have reason to vote on his application? 
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have reason to believe him unqualified

to practice medicine?



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A No, sir.
Q Did you have reason to believe him unethical?
A No, sir.
Q Of the Negro applicants who applied for member­

ship in the James Walker Memorial Hospital, Dr. Eaton is 
the only one you believed to be unethical and unqualified 
to practice good medicine?

A With the information that I have, yes, sir.
(A five-minute recess was taken at this 

time.)
BY MR. CHAMBERS:

Q Dr. Hooper, I have Just one or two other ques­
tions. You have stated that you would be unwilling to 
give the names of these patients to whom you refer. Would 
you be willing to state the conditions of these 
patients?

A The condition of the patients is satisfactory
now.

Q Would you state what medical treatment you 
performed or what medical treatment was necessary?

A Some of them had operationsj some of them had 
antibiotics. I can't be specific without taking up 
each case, Mr. Chambers.

Q Would you be willing to state why you felt that 
Dr. Eaton was unqualified to practice?



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A Sir, I stated that on the basis of the results 
in these patients.

Q Could you be more specific about that?
A Only with the patient's permission.
Q Would it be a matter over which physicians 

would disagree as to whether Dr. Eaton had properly 
treated these patients?

A I don't think so.
Q Could you state why they would not disagree?
A Because I think you could look at the result

and see that it wasn't satisfactory. It speaks for it­
self.

Q The conditions you refer to as causing you to
form this opinion, would they be similar to some of the
patients you have seen who have come from white physicians?

A I have seen similar cases from white physicians, 
yes, sir.

Q Are these white physicians members of the 
staff of Jaimes Walker?

A No, sir.
Q Where are they practicing?
A In surrounding counties.
Q You have never seen a similar case with a 

physician practicing at James Walker?
A One particular case I have.



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Q On one particular occasion. I assume, Dr.
Hooper, that these patients had urology problems, since 
your specialty is urology?

A That is correct.
Q One other thing, Dr. Hooper, isn't it true 

that Dr. Eaton's application came before the board on 
two separate occasions?

A Mr. Chambers, I don't know that for a fact.
Q Did you have occasion to vote on this

application twice?
A Yes.
Q Is this the practice that is followed by the 

staff on every occasion?
A To my knowledge this was the only time that 

this had happened.
Q Do you know why it happened this time?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q Do you know why the board referred the matter 

back to the staff for a second vote?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q Dr. Hooper, is it true that a physician to be 

licensed to practice medicine in North Carolina has to 
pass an examination?

A Has to pass the State Board examination, yes,
sir



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Q Do you feel that the State Board is qualified 
to determine whether an applicant is qualified to practice 
medicine?

A Mr. Chambers, if a man passes the State Board, 
my understanding is that that gives him the opportunity, 
if he can obtain hospital privileges, to do anything 
within the realm of medicine.

Q The question was, Dr. Hooper, do you feel that 
the State Board of Medical Examiners are qualified to 
determine whether an applicant is qualified to practice 
medicine?

A General practice, yes.
Q You feel that it is qualified to determine 

whether one is able to practice general medicine?
A General practice.
Q General practice of medicine?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, it is true that Dr. Eaton has been 

licensed to practice medicine?
A Yes, sir. I assume he has. I have never seen 

his certificate. I'm sure that he has if you so state.
Q Now, was it your objection, Dr. Hooper, that 

you felt that Dr. Eaton should not be practicing urology?
A No, sir.
Q Do you feel Dr. Eaton capable of practicing



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surgery?
A I have never seen him operate; I am not familiar 

with the postgraduate training he has had.
Q Did he apply to James Walker to practice 

urology?
A No, sir.
Q Your opinion was formed in the area of urology?
A No, sir.
Q What area?
A Urological complications of general surgery.
Q And your opinion, then, would apply to his

application for the practice of surgery at James Walker?
A Would apply to the practice of medicine in 

James Walker, Mr. Chambers.
Q The practice of medicine?
A General medicine, yes, sir.
Q You feel that Dr. Eaton, because of the com­

plications you refer to, is unable to practice general 
medicine?

A General medicine to include surgery and all 
facets of medicine.

Q Do you think Dr. Eaton should be disqualified 
to practice medicine?

A I couldn't answer that, Mr. Chambers.
Q Your opinion of Dr. Eaton's practice would



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prevent him from serving on the s^s^l’ at James Walker. 
Isn't it true that a physician practicing surgery needs 
a hospital in which to practice?

A Yes, sir.
Q And if he has no place to practice a specialty 

like surgery, he would be unable to practice, period; 
isn't that correct?

A Yes, sir.
Q So you feel that Dr. Eaton should not be able

to practice?
A No, sir.
Q You think he should be permitted to practice?
A Dr. Eaton has a place to practice.
Q At Community Hospital?
A Yes , sir.
Q And you feel him qualified to practice at

Community Hospital?
A Ihat rests with the medical staff of the

Community Hospital.
Q Do you feel that he is qualified to practice 

at Community Hospital?
A I am not on the medical staff and, consequently, 

would not have an opinion.
MR. CHAMBERS: No further questions.
MR. HOGUE: I have no further questions.



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STATE OP NORTH CAROLINA 
COUNTY OF WAKE

I, Wilda Y. Hauer, a Notary Public in 
and for the State of North Carolina at Large, hereby cer­
tify that Dr. Joseph W. Hooper Jr. was duly sworn by me 
prior to giving testimony in the foregoing cause;

That the testimony of said witness was 
taken by me in stenotype and also by means of electronic 
recording and thereafter transcribed and reduced to 
typewriting under my supervision and direction;

That the foregoing 43 pages contain a 
full, true and correct record and transcription of all 
interrogatories propounded to the witness and of the 
answers given by him;

I further certify that I am an Official 
Court Reporter for the United States District Court, 
Eastern District of North Carolina, am not related by 
blood or marriage to any of the parties, am not an em­
ployee or agent of any of the parties, nor am I interested 
directly or indirectly in the event of said action.

Witness my hand and seal this 22nd day of December, 1965.

Notary Public£
My commission expires 
May 28, 1966.