Status of Appearances
Public Court Documents
May 2, 1995
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Case Files, Bolden v. Mobile Hardbacks and Appendices. Appendix Volume II, 1978. ff11c55a-cdcd-ef11-b8e8-7c1e520b5bae. LDF Archives, Thurgood Marshall Institute. https://ldfrecollection.org/archives/archives-search/archives-item/d9bd5680-cd7b-4ee1-bec1-b05a2c5b6c7f/appendix-volume-ii. Accessed August 19, 2025.
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APPENDIX
VOLUME II -- Pages 306 - 620
IN THE
Supreme Court of the United States
OCTOBER TERM, 1978
No. 77-1844
CITY OF MOBILE, ALABAMA, et al.,
Appellants,
WILEY L. BOLDEN, et al,
Appellees.
ON APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES
COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT
JURISDICTIONAL STATEMENT FILED JUNE 27, 1978
PROBABLE JURISDICTION NOTED OCTOBER 2, 1978
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INDEX
Volume II
Page
Testimony of Lambert Mims. ..........oooerneneenenens 307
Testimony of Gary Greenough ............ovoveneneene: 396
Testimony of Lambert Mims (Resumed)................. 401
Testimony of Gary Greenough (Resumed)........... «+488
Testimony of James E. Voyles (Resumed) .........c.o.nvn. 500
Testimony of George Winstanley. ...........cooveeenee 518
Testimony of Earl Joyner.............couvvrnnrneenees 524
Testimony of Tom Peavy.........ccocviivinnrennnnnnns 540
Testimony of Jack Summerall ....... Sag TOO RL
Testimony of Marion Barnett ............oooveeenernens 546
Testimony of John A. Calamettl. oo vvdi sds dono vi B32
Court COMOQUY. ..u is ianranaias tos badass esspgnsnssivs 568
Plaintiffs’ Exhibits
No. 5 — 1973 Mobile Voter Registration for Selected
Wards ir i ih svi ne saa dean saan ete a eye ad 572
No. 6 — 1976 Mobile Voter Registration for Selected
Wards i NE ee eat a ie sR a rae eee Oa 573
No. 7 — Summary Mobile County Voter Registration. . ...574
No. 9 — Excerpts from Voyles Thesis: “ An Analysis
of Mobile Voting Patterns, 1948-70" ................ 213
No. 53 — Summary of Statistical Analyses.............. 591
No. 61 — Excerpts from File “Newspaper AAS... Janie 593
No. 62 — Newspaper article “Numerous Cross
BUMINGS «suave Samara arr venient ca wanasere ras 600
|
(ii) Th
|
No. 64 — Summary of City Committees ................ 601 i
No. 65 — File of Grand Jury Report and Newspaper ;
clippings from 1976 re: Police Brutality .............. 605 p THE COUR
No. 73 — Summaries of City Employment Data (1975)...611 i
No. 75 — Summary — City Streets .......... AER a ...614 MR. AREN
No. 111 — Sub exhibit N to Documents regarding
Utilization of Revenue Sharing Funds. .......... vise B15 :
: Mr. Doyl
: that the
a Thursd
| and thre
not note
making s
and it a
were con
So that
I! rather t
| to the e
correct.
1 1}
! THE COUR
I
| MR. AREN
I
|
| THE COUR
|
|
{
il
(RECESS)
THE COURT:
All right. You may proceed. MR. ARENDALL:
If your Honor please, during the noon recess,
Mr. Doyle checked his secretary's calendar and it appears
that the call from Mr. Clint Brown came in on April 8th,
a Thursday, sometime between eleven-thirty in the morning
and three-thirty-five in the afternoon, the exact time was
not noted, because he accepted the call without his secretary
making some notation that he had called at a certain time
and it appears that the meeting with some of those who
were concerned was held the next day, that is April 9th.
So that it could properly be referred to as a Friday meeting
rather than a Thursday meeting.
My understanding is that Mr. Blacksher's own notes, | to the extent that he has them, indicate that that is
correct.
{THE COURT:
Fine. Thank you. Are you through with the witness?
MR. ARENDALL: |
Yes, sir. |
|
THE COURT:
Whom will you have next, please? |
a Ss. TT
t
|
- ss 1
| 3
4 ' larly
Q Now, Mr. Mims, in your 1965 race for the City i
A 4 CA
Commission were there seven candidates including the then :
¥ ; and a
incumbent, Mr. Charles Trimmier? 3
§ | campa-c
A Mr. Trimmier was a candidate and I am sure that 3
£ Q
number is correct.
] A
Q I will ask you whether or not, in that election you i :
¥ : | was Sa
had a runoff between yourself and Henry Luscher, Jr., whose : |
) ¥ EQ
father had previously been a member of the Commission?
| any oO:
A This is correct. |
i A
Q In 1969, were you again opposed by Mr. Henry Luscher | Q
Jr., as well as Charles F. Cooper and were you re-elected ’
without a runoff? |
been -
A This is correct.
: Eo many }
Q In 1973 were there six candidates, including : in 19 : ‘ n 19
Alphonso Smith and Lula Albert, who were black? »
¥ | stand:
A This is correct. 4 |
¢ | it wa:
Q Did you win in that race without a runoff? b
3 1 black
A I did. § | : ; & I the e:
Q Mr. Mims, in that race did you seek black support? : Q
A I have always sought black support. L
3 to you
Q Did you have any blacks active in your political ; 11k
: e
campaign? £
| ¥ I the si
A Yes, I did. 5 :
| zg First
Q Could you identify any blacks who gave you particu-
“307 Tid tha
: :
825
p
—
' larly strong support?
{
i A Well, there was Reverand Tunstall, and Mr. Evans
3 3
i and a number of other blacks who played a good part in my
5 campaign for re-election.
i Q Did you visit the non-partisan voters league?
A Not in the '73 campaign. When I ran in 1965 I |
you i
: | was screened by the non-partisan voters league.
se I
HQ Did youpgo to the polls in 1969 and do you remember
! any of the activities of Mr. Beasley, at that time?
ye 1
! i A Yes, I do.
cher 5 |
7 Q Tell us about those. |
: | A Well, it has been my policy, every since I have |
4 | been involved in politics, on election date, to make as |
: | many polls as possible and, on that particular election day
3 in 1969, Mr. Beasley was, if my memory serves me correctly, |
1 | standing at the ward ten balloting place on Davis Avenue gid
’ it was my understanding that he was actually discouraging
; | black people from coming to the polls and participating in
; | the election process. |
? ] Q Mr. Mims, before we go into details with respect
: to your responsibility as public service commissioner, I would
i | like for you to outline for the Court the basic set up for
: | the supplying of various governmental services to Mobilians?
| 5 | Firat, Mobile Water and Sewer Board, what is that?
u- 3
of ig $ | i 308" 3 ee #4
| ?
|
|
i
- which are appointed to that board by the City Commission
and this board has the responsibility of providing water and
| government?
A Well, the Mobile Water and Sewer Board is an
entity separate from the City Commission. The members of
sewer service to the citizens of the City of Mobile.
Q ~~ Is it established by State law?
A This is correct,
Q Is Mr. Milton Jones a black, a menber of that board?
A He is.
Does that board handle City drainage matters?
Not storm drainage matters. vil
That is a function of the City government, itself?
>
LO
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This is correct and, under the specific duties of
the public works commission,
Q All right. Mobile County Health Department. Would
you give us the relationship of that unit to the City
A Well, the Mobile County Board of Health has
members who serve at the pleasure of the County Commission, 1
I am not mistaken. The City Commissioners do not appoint to |
this board.
However, by statute, by State law, each municipality
within the County, as well as the County, has to contribute
to the Board of Health and in the case of the City of Mobile |
309° —~—s ; |
we cont
law. I
two dol
actuall
Q
A
its fun
Mobile
Mobile
serving
Q
housing
regard?
i | “ah : ; 827
——t—826 |’
| we contribute far more than the amount that is prescribed by
law. I think we support the Board of Health at the tune of
of . two dollars and forty cents per capita when the State law
en | actually requires sixty cents, if I am not mistaken.
¥ 4nd Q Mobile Housing Board?
| A The Mobile Housing Board is also a separate entity and
| its function is to provide public housing for the City of
Mobile and the members of that board are appointed by the
oard? Mobile City Commission or more specifically the mayor, who is
4 serving, at that time. |
{ Q Is that the agency that has been charged of public
4 housing here and works with the Federal agencies in that |
1£7 § regard? |
of £4 A This is correct. They work for closely with HUD and
i the other Federal agencies and, in the past, had been
ould bi designated as our urban renewal agency in the City.
hh Q Was Mr. John LeFlore a member of the board?
A He was for a number of years. |
| Q Is there currently, on the board, Mr. John F. Grey, |
ion, 1 who is black? : oil
nt to | : NA He is black, yes.
I
i lla And he is on that board?
ality ] A This is correct.
bute I Q Mobile County Personnel Board?
elle aE ~ 310 :
| f
|
: |
EEE nS on A 1828 r
|
. 18 ope
| A Well, the Mobile County Personnel Board is certainly
. ' we nee
separate from the City Commission. In fact, in many cates
| that w
| has more power, in my opinion, than the City Commission, !
: with a
| because it tells us what to do.
|
| It is a three member board and these board members :
| * Person
I! are selected by a supervisory committee that is made up of ;
i . : ! 11st ha
| one representative from each of the participating governmental
h to do
, entities. :
' case,
Q That would be the City of Mobile has only one
names
member on the supervisory committee?
select:
A This is correct. And I think there are seventeen
. City,
members of that committee, and it has been a contingen of
| two apj
| the City government for a long time that there is a terrible
! : this wz
inadequaty that exists here inasmuch as we are called on to : |
| 5 8
| pay fifty-five percent of the operating costs of this board, A
| pe | but you
i! yet we only have one vote out of seventeen in selecting the #
® I A
| board members and, of course, the board members then select ;
: on the
| a director and they operate the program and screen all
; Q
| applicants for job opportunitites in the City as well as in %
i bS three,
| all of these other governmental agencies. 4
{
A
Ii Q When the City considers that it wants someone to -- “ I
| : % | ten nan
| or wants to fill a position on the City payroll, what procedure ¥
4 system
ii is followed? 5 |
k Il we take
| A Well, if we want a secretary, for instance, a position —
- SE — SS |
| We 5 5
829
18a ~fF- arr
f .
' is opened for secretary or a position has been vacated, and
-ainly
we need to fill that vacancy, we notify the Personnel Board
ces
that we need to fill this vacancy. They, in turn, furnish us
3, : :
with a certified list of qualified people. ‘
In other words, when we get the list from the |
Jers :
|
: Personnel Board we have the assurance that the names on that
» of
'! 1ist have been examined and screened and they are qualified
-nmental | |
to do whatever it is that we need to have done and, in this |
case, we are talkimg about a secretary. So, we have five
names on the list, say, and then we have the privilege of :
a selecting from the top three and every vacancy within the |
en 3%: i
Ee City, with the exception of the City Attorney and one or
& |
of ip
4 | two appointed positions, every one of them are handled j:=t
rible 5
3 | this way.
2 to 2
5 | Q I understand they give you a list of five names, |
»oard, a
ped | but you may only select from the top three?
= the |
f A Well, I just used the number five, there could be ten
sl ect
| on the list, we still can select only from the top three.
Q Out of curiosity, why do they give you more names than
18 in ’ |
{ three, then?
| A Well, these names move on up the list. Say there are
0 -- I
|
pS |i ten names on the list for stenographic secretary, within the |
sTocedure % |
# | system and the City of Mobile this week needs a secretary and
re I we take the one right off the top. Well, then, the number
=osition Li I . ERASER 8 SNA LA A
pl Ce 3 Ry DAR
Eo
4 ow fo] ——
| two person moves up to number one and say maybe the County percen!
might need & secretary and they can select from that top | standi
three. | actual.
Q © I see. Are there any other agencies that are actually Q
not part of the City of Mobile's government that perform A
important function in providing public services that I have Q
not asked you about? of the
| A Well, we have recently set up the Mobile Transit A
| Authority that handles the public transportation for the City | Q
and then we have an interim airport authority that assists | imov wi)
the airport commissioners and the City Commissioners in the : Plain:
operation of the airport. / Supple
Q Both of those established under State law? 4 ! commit
A Well, the transit authority is under State law and : | Facent
it is my understanding and we hope some day to have a perma- i | by one
nent airport authority, however, at this time, it is kind of |
J an acting authority, for lack of a better word.. We have el : State
| used interim airport authorities. ; ie A
Q Does the City subsidize bus service in Mobile? | Q
A We do to the tune of three hundred thousand dollars A
a year.
4 1 wants f
Q Would you give us any estimate as to the percentage E ' | to goo
| of blacks and whites respectively who ride the buses? ] oe allowec
A Well, I am sure I am correct in saying that the largest x ) 28 just
: TS 313 BSR. pe [57 |
aay {ral = 831
anty percentage of riders would be blacks and it is my under-
op | standing that only four percent of the people of Mobile
|
| actually use the service in any one given day.
i sctuslly Q That is both black and white?
A Right. | m
Rave Q Would it be fair to say that an overwhelming number
of the actual riders are black?
. A This is correct.
; 1 o ' |
e City Q Now, let's go to City committees, Mr. Mims. I don E)
SLs know whether you were present in Court or not, but the |
: |
tha : Plaintiffs have introduced as their Exhibit 64 a list
| :
i |
| supplied by us at their request of all the boards and
i !
9 | committees and so on that are or have been around Mobile rn
and & | recent years and I am just going to have to go down them one ;
eriia~ ® | by one. |
A: |
ad of fl I The board of adjustment, is that an agency required by
A | |
! State law? |
ve i |
; ! A Yes, and it is one of the more active boards.
Aq What does it do? |
Yara | A It rules on variances. For instance, if the person
| > |
Hag | wants to add on to his house and build a garage and it is going
F000
¢ Be to go over near the line closer than the six foot that is
age = :
: f allowed, then that person would come befere this board of
Yarigelt B. ; | adjustment and get a variance. |
ES - in ———— oo ——————— —————————n i ee oid
: i a EN | _ 314 »
Q Doesn't he first go to the City planning commission
and then to the board of adjustment or does he?
A No. I don't think so. The planning commission is
another planning function that I imagine we will get into
later.
Q All right. Of the seven members of that board, is
one of them black?
A ~ Yes, he is.
THE COURT:
Just one minute. Please state for me the function
of that board.
A Your Honor, the function of that board is to grant
variances.
THE COURT:
Zoning laws?
A Well, we have a zoning commission, too, that acts on
property of two acre plots and larger, but say you have a
plot that was smaller than two acres and you wanted to get a
special exception to put a special business or expand your
house beyond the normal limits or something like this, you
would come before this board of adjustment and ask for an
exception and they hear all of these cases and either grant
or deny your request.
THE COURT:
=
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£ Lb a 833
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Mr. Blacksher and Mr, Arendall, for quick reference
mission
for study in the future, if there is no objection, I am going
4 to make some pencil notations on the Exhibit, for instance,
on is
thio like board of adjustments set up by State law. Any objection
n :
to me doing that?
i : i
| |
{ “MR. DALL:
rd, is : Asa
|
No, sir.
|
|
‘ MR. BLACKSHER:
J No, sir.
i I
| FE: THE COURT:
ction ie Pa & |
| 32 : Let the record show that any notes on here will be |
ES ; |
grant i5 i made by me in pencil and if the attorneys have any ohjectiony
ped I when it is over with, I will hear from you. Go ahead.
A I Mr. Mims, the board of adjustment would also handle, |
: i would it not, what are called applications for exceptions |
acts on !
ve a from zoning ordinances as, for example, when jacinto port
co get a } wanted to put the fragnation plant out there on the jacinto |
=
§ your port property. They had to go to the board of adjustment |
2, you 1 to get a so called exception from the zoning ordinance, did
i they not?
>r an ot
| :
EF 3 iA I am sure this is correct.
- grant & | : |
Q The next on the list if the air conditioning board. |
| |
| Is that appointed by the City, iteelf?
tt [F] REIT
| A Yes. But there are some requirements that -- I don't board
have the srdinance in front of me. There are some specific : A
. regulations as to who goes on there. In other words, it has appli
i to be someone who is familiar with the air conditioning or to do
| refrigeration -- in other words, you don't pick someone who | is to
doesn't know anything ahout that. of bu
iQ What does this board do? | condi
| A Well, they screen the applicants for refrigeration and | the C
| air conditioning licences, as I understand it. F condi:
Q Well, let me read something to you and ask you if this is MR. BI
sounds approximately correct. i
The qualifications for membership on this would be ] condiy
one, air conditioning refrigeration mechanic who is mominated 4 MR. Al
| by the Mobile Chapter of Refrigeration Service Engineers &
| Society. One person whose principal business is registered ; Tell t
air conditioning and heating firm nominated by the Mobile | A
Mechanical Contractors Association. One who is nominated by | would
Mobile Air Conditioning Contractors Association. One | altera
independent practicing mechanical engineer registered in the | Hi distri
State of Alabama and one representative of the public. | f | and yo
Does that sound about right? : altera
A It sounds like it is. L assure
iQ Now, the next one is the architectural oiiuh i are co
THE COURT: 3 : ie Soci
> TE a
NORE SE Gn OE
lew |F
Wait a minute. I didn't get the function of that
don ' board.
fre | A That board, as I understand it, your Honor, screens |
has applicants for air conditioning licenses and what not, anything
a) to do with air conditioning and refrigeration. The purpose
"ho | is to make sure we have qualified people to come to our places
of business or your homes. In the event you call an air |
| conditioning man you can be assured, if he is functioning in
on and | | the City of Mobile, he is qualified to work on your air |
' conditioning and not flim-flam you, so to speak. |
E this i © | MR. BLACKSHER: |
k Your Honor, I don't think that guarantees my air |
e E conditioning work, does it?
ated : MR. ARENDALL: |
i The next on the list is architectural review board. |
[iA
ed ¢ | Tell us what that does. |
: | A Back to the architectural review board, the board |
1 by | would review the plans on any remodelling projects or any |
alterations to any building that might be in a historic |
the) ; | district. The City of Mobile has several historic districts |
| : and you have to go before this board before you can make any £
| alterations to a building in these districts and this is to |
3 :
Ad || assure that the district remains historic and all the buildings
8 | are compatible with the period, whichever period you may be |
EL | ON Ne NE A UN MS LT I AHR WR LER TE RB IRREP LL Tok Sena
eae Al | 318 |
| member of the audiotorium board?
| 836 5 |
i & — :
35 | A
dealing with, and again these members are from specific ( |
organizations such as the historic development commission hag po
a member. The preservation society and various other
neve
organizations make recommendations to us as City Commissioners
and we appoint to this board. i |
i
as G
Q The American Institute of Architects is also |
| | chat
recommended to you by the Mobile Association of Architects? | |
i the 1
A This is correct.
| bran
Q Next on the list is the audiotorium board.
I 2 |
A Well, the audiotorium board is an active board and HE |
| Te ! |
time
| it is set up to assist the Commissioner in charge of the i
| x I Mr.
| operations of the audiotorium as well as the City Commstanion |
|
L ll firs:
|' in the operation of the audiotorium that serves the entire I
commmity. | 9
I! | boarc
lL Q Of the twelve members are three black? i
5 | peop:
A I am sure that is right. 3
Ha t in pa
THE COURT: i
. : " appo1
That is what the Exhibit shows. Be
3 i A
A It varies, from tine to time. I think there have been | & |
Be l to bc
more and there have been less. i |
B | know,
MR. ARENDALL: E |
x. | know
There has been some reference in this case to Mr. Garly k I
| .
i 31 | perfc
Cooper who has testified. Was Mr. Cooper, at one time, a : iE Pp
A I serve
a si
. 819
836 # on die p21)
| A Yes, he was. I appointed him.
Q How did he happen to get appointed? |
n hag
{
A Well, Mr. Cooper walked into my office one day. 1 had
never seen him before in my life.
ionerns
He was tall, handsome, black man and introduced himself
| as Gary Cooper and I said, "I am glad to know you." We
; |, chatted for a few minutes. He said he had just returned from
ts
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
"
the military. He had been a major in the Marines or whatever
branch of the service he was in and we had a nice long chat.
He expressed an interest in civic affairs and the next
i : time an appointment came open on the board I appointed
¥ Mr. Cooper to the audiotorium board which, I think, was his
| 5 | first civic appointment after returning from the milit:.-v
i Q Mr. Mims, is it fair to say that on many of these
|
g | boards and committees it 1s difficult for the City to get
| people willing to serve and if someone will show some interest
S
T
Sr
SR
' in participation in civic affairs they likely can get
+ appointed to most anything they want to?
Il A This is correct. We look for people we can appoint
e been
|
| to boards and commissions. You just don't go out and, you
| know, reach in the sky and get a name of someone, you don’ know a thing about or don't know anything about their |
i & | performance or don't know that they even have a desire to
: il
Hi
| serve.
We try to put people on these boards that have an
interest in the particular area of responsibility and people
who are willing to serve.
Q What is the Mobile beautification board?
THE COURT:
Does the City appoint all members of the audiotorium
board?
A Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT:
All right.
A If I might add, we try to divide these between the
three commissioners. If there is twelve members on the board
then four would have been appointed by one commissioner and
four by the other and so on. You ask about another board?
MR. ARENDALL:
The Mobile beautification board?
A Well, the Mobile beautification board was set up several
years ago to do just what it says it does, try to beautify
the City and make it more beautiful and engage the community
in civic pride and clean up programs and things such as this.
Q Does it largely relate to shrubbery and things of
that sort, or what? A Well, it has had, as its projects on a number of
occasions, the planting of shrubs along various boulevards |
= | To. aed |
an { | in different sections of the City, yes. |
=ople . Q Mobile bicentennial..... |
fd THE COURT:
| I want to know who appoints these, each one of them?
E A The City Commission.
S>rium Fr THE COURT: |
} All right. Go ahead.
| | MR. ARENDALL:
: | Q Mobile bicentennial community committee. Who appoints
the A The Mobile City Commission set up this committee
board, for the specizl purpose of celebrating our bicentennial and
and & | they have been quite active during the past year and, :t
ard? : point, they are phasing out and cease to be after this year.
: | Q Central City Development Authority. What is that?
+ [A This is a fairly new organization that has been set
p saveral f up to try to rejuvenate the downtown area of the City as wall
ify y | as an area just west of the downtown corridor and it reaches
unity # | out to the loop area and it is very astive in trying to
this. ig ! restore a lot of the area that could. on the other hand,
of p | deteriorate.
: Q Mr. Mims, I notice from Exhibit 64 that at least, at |
£ | Be ! the time that we gave that information to the Plaintiffs,
|
: I dE.
rds | = i that committee only had one member. Has it gotten any more
|
since then or do you knew?
A Well, yes. There are several. In fact, one of the
members, I think, just passed away. The president of Gayferd
was on it, I know, and Mr. Van Antwerp is a member and Mr.
-- the man with Title Insurance.
Q ~ Goebil?
A Goebil is a member and I think the three City
Commissioners serve on this authority, also.
Q And the downtown Mobile Unlimited, as a director?
A Yes. He is on it.
THE COURT:
All appointed by the City?
A Yes.
MR. ARENDALL:
Q This, basically, is suppose to have representation of
people who have business interests in the central City?
A This is correct.
Q Board of examining engineers?
A Well, I don't have the Exhibit in front of me, but
this is another one of those similar to the air conditioning
board. There are specific requirements that go with these appointments. You have to have engineers and representatives
| I
of these various groups.
Q Membership is appointed by the City?
oe
11
on of
A Yes.
Q But it is with reference primarily for people getting
licenses to engage in the business of practicing electricity
here, doing electrical work, is that the purpose of it?
A Did you say electrical?
Q I am sorry. Engineers?
A This has to do with stationary engineers, I think.
THE COURT:
Stationary engineers?
MR. ARENDALL:
I see what it is. Would the qualifications for
membership on this be a practicing engineer having not less
than five years active experience in a management of staticaac,;
engines and boilers?
A Right.
Q I guess this is sort of a safety group, as far as
whatever stationary engineers are?
A Let me give you an example. The jail, we have boilers,
and we cannot operate those boilers unless a stationary
engineer is on duty and that is to keep the:thing from
|
blowing up. |
|
Q The next thing is the board of electrical examiners.
Is that appointed by the City?
A Yes, it is.
324. gs ie
842.
Q My notes indicate that the qualifications here are
appointed by the Mobile Electric and IBEW number five zero
five, which is a union and by Alabama Power Company; is that
right?
A This is correct.
Q : What do they do?
A Well, they examine applicants for electrician
licenses. In other words, we want to make sire that the
people who have a license to do business in the City of
Mobile are qualified and they have to go before this board
and they are questioned by people who know something about
electricity.
Q The next one on the list is Citizens Advisory Group
for the mass transit technical study. Is that appointed by
the City Commission?
A Yes, it is. That was in compliance with some State
' and Federal highway administration regulations and this
group is not active any longer, as I understand it.
Q That has been taken over, its function, I suppose,
have been taken over by this new transit authority that has
been established?
PA Well, not necessarily. This had to do with major
arteries and these people represented the community and looket
into the plans and did research and discussed the impact.
.. 925.
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This artery -- I think we are talking about the Congress
- Donald Street artery. n
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They talked about the impact it would have on the
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ee that community and so forth and so on. To the best of my know-
ledge, it has served its purpose and is no longer active.
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Q I am not sure, Mr. Mims, that I understand, because
—
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the next list on here, the next on this list is Citizens
AR
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Advisory Committee, Donald - Congress - Lawrence Street and
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Three Mile Creek freeway, is that the same group as the
Ve
4 | mass transit study technical group, are they the same? |
p : |
L |
A No. I had the two confused. The one I had talked |
1t |
h about, that had served its purpose. I am talking about the
i Congress, Donald group.
yup § :
5 i Q You had determined what the location of that freeway
y |
' would be and that kind of thing?
A Right. |
ate
h/ Q What about the other one, advisory group for the
+ |
Ed | mass transit technical study?
ry | |
HH tA Well, that is some of our staff people, if my memory!
3 AR I!
’ Ei |
i I serves me correctly. I think Mr. Peavy serves on that |
as x | |
i J committee and various technical staff people. |
i |
= Q The Exhibit indicates there are eight members of
- i re | :
x
; | whom three are black. Does that help refresh your memory
looked ge A |
5 ! on that?
: i
oe
: | #5 844 i
cont
) | A 4 couldn't tell you, to save my life, who they are. A
. |! So, you will have to pass on that one.. I am sorry. Q
Q The next one is the codes advisory committee. Is the
that appointed by the City Commission? ani
i Yes, it is, SOUR
| Q Does that committee relate to drawing up codes, as A
' far as building chdas are concerned? Q
| A - This is correct. Is t]
j Q Mr. Mims, I believe I am going to give you a copy of | A
| this Exhibit 64, if I may, so it might help you remember Q
| what each of these organizations are? A
| A Well, we often say we have fifty-seven varities here conn
on these boards. So, it is kind of confusing. for
| Q I will ask you if the qualifications for membership and 1
' on the codes advisory committee; an architect, one structural chang
| engineer, a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers. dealis
| one mechanical engineer, a member of the society of heating Nat te:
and refrigeration engineers, one electrical engineer, a
| member of the American Institute of Electrical Engineers and proble
i the engineer of the city of Mobile; one member of the Building need {1
Trades Council; one member of the Association of General Q
Contractors; one member from the Mobile Home Builders a Mobi
| Association; and one member from the Mobile Real Estate elsewh
| Association; and one member of the Mobile Air Conditioning
S32) Ee
£
| 843 : Eth Sie in ot ai EERE Re -
eR po
% , contractors. Does that sound about right to you?
e. 4 i A Yes, it does.
$ | Q Now, actually, these building codes normally follow |
gy ! the so called southern building code, as worked up in
v municipalities all over the south and perhaps all over the |
country, do they not?
|
8 i A This is correct. is i
A | Q The next on the list is the commission on progress.
: Is that appointed by the City Commission? |
of | A Yes, it is.
Q What is it? |
| A The commission on progress is actually a bi-racial |
ere | committee and that was the title or the name of the count :x25
| for many years, a bi-racial committee of the City of Mobile, |
ip | and it was at my suggestion a number of years ago that we |
ural & | change the name to Commission on progress, because wi were |
cers. i: | dealing with a lot of matters other than race oriented |
ng he | matters.
|
E Originally it was set up to deal with the race |
and 3 | problems in our commmity and, over the years, met a great |
1ding X need in the community,
i | Q Now, did it, for example, have anything to do with
a Mobile restaurant downtown being integrated before they Teh
%. || elsewhere in the State?
| oo as 1
A Yes, they were. o
MR. BLACKSHER: b
Your Honor, I object to counsel testifying.
MR. ARENDALL: 3
I think it was leading.
Q I will ask you, were there any informal discussions
and arCanpenents made that did lead to the integration of
downtown lunch counters? ;
A Yes.
Q At what point in time did that occur with reference
to other cities in Alabama? :
A Well, it was during the sixties when there were a
lot of turmoil not only in this community but in many
commmities and this bi-racial committee as it was known at
that time, worked long and hard to assure that black people
would have free access to any place they desired to go, not
only restaurants, but we had, one time, a man working to
see that blacks were hired in the banks and in the savings
and loan businesses and in the downtown businesses and we
put in these responsible places.
Q Those efforts have your personal support and assis-
tance?
A Well, absolutely.
329 went to a great deal of effort to see that black people were]
846
UBER J . 1/7 + em ee \ i eS me stg Sen eis 1 84
THE COURT:
2 Just a minute. Who appointed the code advisory,
4 the City?
: A Yes, sir.
bl THE COURT: |
ons bs Commission on progress, the City? |
33 3 A Yes.
MR. ARENDALL: :
i Q The next one is the educational building authority. |
ance | Who appoints it?
A This is no doubt a City appointed board, because if
a | I am not mistaken it is ome of these propositions where this
| board is used as a vehicle whereby financing can be obtainea
n at | for educational purposes. I am not sure if this is the |
ople | University of South Alabama group or which group, but we
not have several, if my memory serves me correctly that we
0 i appoint three to five members to this authority and then
ngs | bonds are sold and this educational facility retires those
we i bonds.
were | ! Q You think this must be one of the industrial zovens
| agencies where they get approval of the city and get themselves
gisg- incorporated and they sell tax exempt bonds in aid of a |
public welfare type of program?
A Yes.
330
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Q Mobile area public higher education foundation?
A This would be the same type of entity set up strictly
for -- as a vehicle where these funda can be obtained in
the facility built for public use.
Q Find Arts Museum of the South at Mobile. Membership
there appointed by the City Commigsion?
A Yes. And normally we appoint pepple who are interested
in fine arts, people who express interest in the museum and
in some cases, people who have made sizeable contributions
to art in the museum in Mobile.
Q This 1s the committee that is in charge of running
what we use to call the art gallery in municipal park; isn't
that correct? .
A This is correct.
Q Are the nominees for it submitted by the Mobile
Art Association, the allied arts council, the art partons
league, the art gallery board and the Mobile County
Commission and the City Commission?
A This is correct.
Q Fort Conde Plaza development authority. Is it
appointed by the city?
A Yes, it is, and this is an unusual arrangement. The
three City Commissioners serve on this authority as well as
four other people who represent the interests within that
331 ——
48
; i B40
at 848
plaza. In other words, some of the owners of property or
representatives of owners of property and, in one case,
rictly
Mrs. Bester Ward represents the Fort Conde Charlotte House,
n |
which is a historic museum within that complex. The purpose
of this authority is to promote that plaza area.
rship
Q And to get private industry and businesses to
% develop things that would be consistent with the historical
terested x ;
i | area?
and HE
THE COURT:
ons
This Exhibit only reflects four members. I assume |
: |
$ i then that you left off the City Commissioners that had |
ng
! membership?
isn't
oA Apparently, your Honor.
THE COURT: |
All right.
MR. ARENDALL:
|
ms |
Q Mobile Historical Development Committee. Is that |
appointed by the City? |
A Yes, it is. We have certain stipulations as to |
who goes on there. In other words, various groups make |
recommendations, normally people interested in historic |
| | i
| development. |
, The
Q Let me read some names to you and see if this sounds
|1 as
£ about right. The Allied Arts Council, the American |
1at ta
!
ece————— 4 332.
85
Association of University of Women, American Institute of Architects, Art Patrons League, Colonial Danes, Three
City Commissioners, County Board of Realtors, Mobile Jaycees),
Women's Architectural League, downtown Mobile Unlimited,
Fort Conde Charlotte House, Colonial Danes, Historical Mobilp
Preservation Society, Historic Mobile Tours, Ing., Jaycettes|
Junior League, Chamber of Commerce, County Board of
Commissioners, Oakleigh Garden Society and Richard's DAR
House, does that sound about right?
A Yes.
Q Independence Day celebration committee?
A Well, this is a committee that has been appointed by
the City Commission that started back in 1972 when we decided
we need to have an Independence celebration every year. This committee puts on the 4th of July celebration held at Ladd
Stadium.
Q How many people did you have this yest?
A We had thirty-five thousand people.’
THE COURT:
How many does that Ladd Stadium hold?
A About forty-six thousand, something like that.
MR. ARENDALL:
The next one is the Industrial Development board.
Is this another one of these financing arrangements?
333
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DAR
nted by
decide
*. Thi
Ladd
ard.
850
| 851
A Yes, it is.
Q The next is the Malaga Day Committee, is that .....
THE COURT:
If you don't mention who appoints them, I assume
the City appoints them.
MR. ARENDALL: Yes, sir.
Q Mr. Mims, unless the City does not appoint them, let
us know, otherwise I won't even ask you the question. We
will just assume the City appoints them.
A On this Malaga Day Committee, I am not sure that |
is even still in existence. It could be or could not be.
We have a sister city's program and Malaga, Spain
is one of our sister cities and we have had some celebrations
here called Malaga Day celebrations and I am not even sure
that committee is still funding.
Q If members were a group who went to Malaga in 1965
and got the sister city thing going..... |
|
|
{
A They have been the prime movers of this Malaga Day
program.
Q The Mobile Housing Board. Now, that is a highly
significant group, is it not?
A The Mobile Housing Board is one of the most important
boards that we have and simply because it provides public
3343 4
housing and meets the need of so many people in the
community. This is one of our most important boards.
Q And I asked you about that, of course, in my earlier
examination?
A Yes.
Q Next is the Mobile Medical Clinic Board - psychiatrig.
Is this another one of these internal revenue bond organiz-
-
ations?
A It is a vehicle for financing.
Q Yes. And the Mobile Medical Clinic Board, Tranquil
Aire, that was a vehicle for financing the building where
Tranquil Aire is located?
A Yes.
Q The Port City Medical Clinic Board. That is another
such organization, is it not?
A That is correct.
Q The next is Mobile Medical Clinic Board, Springhill.
A Yes. This is correct. If I might add here, your
Honor, the City Commission has very little, if anything, to
do with these boards once we make these appointments.
In other words, we have recommendations made to us
and we try to put responsible people on these boards and
once the financing is arranged then really there is nothing
— gad
more for us to do. So, we have a lot of -- it looks like
335 -—
|
sarlier
*hiatric.
yaniz-
inquil
ere
another
1ghill.
your
852
a lot of boards here, but some of them we don't have much
to do with.
Q Mr. Mims, I will ask you if this isn't a typical way, three doctors decide they want to start a hospital and
they want to arrange financing through tax exempt bonds and |
they come to the City Commission and say that three of us
are getting ready to build another hospital at such and such!
a place and we need one of these industrial revenue boards
created. Would you appoint the three of us or maybe they
say our accountants or our lawyers, some People to go in that
|
they designate and y'all do what they ask you to do? |
1
. This is the way that works.
Q The Medical Clinic Board of the City of Mobile
Medical Clinic Board, - second, that is the same kind of |
thing? |
A Right. |
Q The Mobile Medical Clinic Board, the same kind of |
thing? |
A Right, |
Q Now, we come to the Mobile Library Board. Is that
appointed by the City?
A Yes, it is, and it is with the Commissioner ‘in charge
of the operation of the libraries.
Q How much money does the City contribute to the |
853
796 Ga bu SHS
i
|
libraries here, do you know?
A Several hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't
have that figure in front of me, seven or eight hundred
\
\
thousand dollars a year.
Q Greater Mobile Mental Health Retardation Board. That
is another one of those industrial development bond boards,
is it not?
A Well, not necessarily. I think this is a require-
ment of the Federal government that we set up such a board
and these Federal funds are channeled down through this board
and then allocated to Mental Health and other things.
Q Does the City Commission appoint the members?
A Yes.
Q Is this the group that works in conjunction with the
rotary clinic or elsewhere? What agency.......
A Well, they work with the Mobile Mental Health Center
I know that, and I suppose any other organization that was
in this business of helping the handicapped and they would gt
to this board and clear any application or what-not that the
might have as far as federal funds are concerned, kind of
a screening board, as I understand it, to try to bring it in
Ha itis ine 3
J
altogether to keep things from going in every direction. If
I am not mistakened, this is a fairly new arrangement here.
Q Pier and Marina committee?
337
:
commis:
of the
today 1
that tc
some of
Q
fire ch
the pol
on it a
| |
i
|
| | 855
bo: sbiion | : |
|
:
|
A Well, at one time, we had wanted to build a public |
| marina over here just this side of the battleship and we had
on't |
! high hopes of it becoming a reality until we ran smack into |
i | |
| the EPA people and they put such a damper on us, you might |
say, that the committee has already served its purpose and
That i
| we didn't accomplish anything.
ards,
Q The Mobile Planning Commission?
A The Mobile Planning Commission is an important
ire- ;
A commission, because it has to do with zoning and the planning
board :
5 of the City and many of the improvements that are being made
.8 board a :
i || today in the City of Mobile are end results of planning |
: that took place ten years ago.
A Q All right. Policemen and fire fighters pension
|| and relief fund board?
[th the ,
4 A Well, this board, as I understand it, administers the
Fd funds and tries to get as much return on the money as they
Center), .
can so that they can meet the obligations of the fund.
Fr was 4 i
5 Q Is this created under State act?
sould go 5
1 A I am not sure about that. I really am not. I know |
hat they :
some of the people who serve on it, but I am not sure.
d of
Q I will ask you if this sounds right to you that the
g it in
fire chief is designated in an act creating the board and that
en. 1f :
the police chief is designated and that there are three bankers
here. | 5
3 on it and one man owning his business and one who has his | jo
ec Stas | a8,
own investment business, the basic purpose of this is to
see to the proper investment of the funds that are ultimately
to be paid out for pensions and relief for policemen and
fire fighters?
A This is correct.
Q Next is the Mobile Tree Commission?
A Well, this is an important commission. If you want
to get a tree cut, because you had better not cut one unless
you go through them. We usually try to put people on this
committee or commission that is interested in preservation of
trees and I think it is a good committee and they work awfully
hard to preserve the beauty of our City, namely our trees.
Q Next is the Neighborhood Improvement Council?
A Neighborhood Improvement Council, no doubt has done
as much or more than any other group to improve our neighbort
hoods. They go into the neighborhoods and have meetings,
encourage the property owners to upgrade their property, to
clean up, fix up, paint up, and it is quite an active group.
Q Mr. Mims, there has been some testinony here from
residents of various areas of the City with reference to
what they feel are inadequacies in City services in their
own areas?
A Yes. ; ;
Q Is this an agency that relates itself to that proble
_. 339
8 to
ltimatel
and
ou want
e unless
n this
vation of
rk awfully
trees.
aas done
neighbort
~ings,
=rty, to
Je group.
= from
~e tO
their
at proble
or not?
A Well, the neighborhood improvement council has
commmity meetings and they run articles in the medium and
in the newspapers. Usually they will have the community
that they are having the meeting in, the blow up of the map
-- say it is going to be the Dog River area where I live or
the South Brookley area, they would have a map of that area |
and they would they are going to have a neighborhood |
improvement meeting in that area and every citizen in that
area is encouraged to come and express themselves, at that
particular meeting, and they go into things like the code,
what you need to do to bring your house up to standard,
up to the code, and help people know how to improve the .:-
dwellings and their living conditions, and much has been
done in these communities because of the neighborhood
improvement council.
Now, they also, for instance, say they go into a
community and citizens complain about the lack of street
lights. Then Mr. Locke, who is the secretary of this
improvement council, he would come back and write me a memo
as public works commissioner in charge of the street lights,
and say last night we met in Cottage Hill, or wherever it
might be, and we found, in a certain area, the street
lighting, in our opinion, is not up to the City policy or
340 [
SRB— 3. 2
SA
Re
es
R
E
S
R
not lighted in accordance with our policy then we would,
the City standard. Then I would direct the electrical
superintendent to go and make a survey of this area, come
back then and give me his recommsndation and if the area was
as rapidly as we could, light the area in accordance with
the City's policy...
Q What is the City's policy?
A On street lights?
Q Yes.
A We have a light on every corner and every two hundre
and fifty feet down the street or mid-block, or at the
end of dead ends, which is adequate lighting, and we receive
an award last year as being one of the best lighted cities
in the United States.
Q Mr. Mims, I have references here to three different
organizations, the names of which appear to me to be somewhat
similar.
We have been talking about the Neighborhood
Inprovement Council that is headed by Mr. Joe Locke. There
is a community service group, is there not?
A Well, no.. There may be a service community group,
but you may have that confused with a program that I
{nstituted a number of years ago that I call community
’
service meetings. ;
dex
4
_. 941
a Ea ee 2 i 1nse
eis 43% fT)
4 q What is that?
al 5 .
g [A Well, this is a program whereby I go into the
, come 4
3 neighborhoods with members of my staff, primarily, and on
area was & ;
1d % : occasion we take someone répresenting the police and
Du " = i .
Ltn 4 : fire department and the parks department and other depart-
e wit i |
| ments, but primarily people from public works and we go
ss !
. |
Ei) into the communities and have a meeting at a school or parks
building or community building, somewhere centrally located |
o |
as we could in the community and invite the public to these
; |
wo hundred meetings and try to get input from the public and then go |
th back and try to respond as rapidly as we can to the requests
e
i
f the people.
re received Of:the people
| cities 3 Q What is the difference between the neighborhoc-
c & ;
: improvement council and your community service meetings or |
E do they just overlap?
jifferent 4
|
mewhalt g A Well, they could overlap, but the neighborhood
ye BO y h |
improvement meetings are -- they deal primarily with the
upgrading of the homes, of the residences in a given area : |
.. There ] where the community service meetings deal mostly with the |
: needs from a public works standpoint. |
2iolp ‘ In other words, the drainage problems, the lighting
1 E problems, the street problems, sanitation services and Sings
atey like this. What I was trying to do when I initiated this
program several years ago was to get input from the people,
11k EA a
|
oh% ad ai
because it has been my sincere desire all along to meet the ward n
; | need of this community regardless of who they are or where and nc
they live. The only way to know the needs is to get out
in the community and hear from the people. area ‘c
The television people and more specifically, WKRG, | weeks
| for a period of a year or two, went to everyone of these | Q
feet iis and taped these meetings and played a portion of A
| the meetings back at a later date and they were not only few we
viewed, -- the programs were viewed by the whole community. have t
In other words, if we met in Toulminville, for instance, the la
then the next Sunday ' or whatever, the whole area could see comm
that we had had a meeting. And I might say, speaking of the it ap
| Toulminville meeting, if I might, we have a swimming pool 1s gol:
at Gorgas Park today and it is solely because of the idea that 4 Q
was brought up at one of these commmity service organization simila:
| meetings and I came back to the City Commission with the 4 A
idea and the City Commission approved it and, today, the City o:
i kids are out there swimming this afternoon because of that. x organi:
| Q Do you have these meetings, then, in the black areas $ We are
| as well as in the white? 4 develor
| A Yes. It has been my policy to have them in every g
| area of the City. In fact, we took the old ward map and | 1 called
tried to put about three wards together and have a meeting | 1 ments
in an area that would cover about three wards and then the &
| gg? 5 a
of the
pool
860
idea that
nizatio
the
the
that.
k areas
n
861
ward map was changed and so we quit using the old ward map
and now we just go to different areas.
Last week I made Trinity Episcopal Church in an
area called the Chapman Improvement area. Three or four
weeks ago I met with a group out in the Carver Court area.
Q That is a black area?
A Which was a predominantly black area and then, a
few weeks prior to that, we met with another group -- I will
have to get my records to tell you where I have been over ;
the last months, but we have periodic meetings out in the
community with the people and, in addition to that, I make
it a point to ride in these commmities myself to know what
is going on.
Q As long as I am asking you about things with somewhat
similar names, what is the community development program? |
A Well, the community development program of the |
City of Mobile is certainly not to be confused with another |
organization known as the community development project.
We are talking about now the City of Mobile's community
development program.
This is a program set up and we have a committee
called the community development committee to make improve-
ments in the communities throughout Mobile, taking advantage
_ 34a
862
of Federal funds.
Now, these Federal Funds, at one time, were designated.
You would get so many millions of dollars for this and so
many for that. Congress changed all of that and now they
send the money down in a block, one lump sum, and then we,
as public local officials, have to make a decision on where
these monies are to be spent.
Now, in order for us to set priorities as three :
elected commissioners, we have established this community 5 -Q
development committee that holds meetings in the various 2 back t
neighborhoods and we have set some priorities on these
funds. So, this is what the community development program board.
is. THE CC
Q That is the program that is headed by Mr. Barnett, 3
is it not? 3
A He is one of the members of the committee. I think | 2 counci
Jimmy Alexander may be is the chairman. 4 or sor
Q The Housing Board man? : ; 1 with r
A Yes. f : state
What we did, if I might add, we put the planner, : A
Mitch Barnett, the public words director, the Housing 3 THE COr
Authority Executive Director, the finance director, as well
as the building inspection department head on this to ask
committee. 4 to thos
~ 345 13
20 ge oe em ER hr io mei ie a i BOF:
We felt like we had a cross section of the people
signated who were going to actually get the work done once we initiated
| s0 it. These people are going to be held to be responsible
hey for carrying out these projects.
we, I am sure you have the map showing where all of
where these projects are and where this money is going to be
spent and I am sure that will be introduced later on during
|
e | this trial. i
ity -Q All right. I think I left out here and let's go |
us back to it. :
I believe we are now on the plumbers examining
gram board. |
$ | m= cour:
ett, E Just a minute. Let me ask him a question.
4 With reference to this neighborhood improvement
think i council, I understand there is some ordinance or regulation
1 or something in a city with reference to requiring people --
1 with reference to their homes to keep them in a certain |
state of repair and painted; is that correct?
r, A This is correct.
THE COURT:
well 4 Now, if that is correct, then the question I want
to ask you is this nelghiorhsod improvement council related
i to those matters?
iw aR | 336" gs a
A Yes, it does, your Honor. : A
MR. ARENDALL: £ Q
The plumbers examining board. I will ask you if | A
these qualifications sound about right. The chief plumbing Q
inspector, one master plumber, a member of the mechanical | A
contractor's association, one master plumber, a member of what
the faster plumber 's association, one journeyman plumber and Tt §
one representative of the publje? an a
A This sounds correct. comm
Q And this is with reference to the licensing of 4 Om;
plumbers?
:
A This is right. : Mobi -
Q The recreation advisory board. 1 see from Exhibit of Oe
64 that members of that board's term expired in 1974 and and,
they were not re-appointed. What was the purpose of that :
board and what was the thinking about not te-appointing it? 4 are m
A 1f my memory serves me correctly, the Commissioner 4 planr
in charge of recreation, at that time, proposed this : other
advisory board and if I am not aisvikenee, he recommended E THE C
these names to the City Commission and we appointed them E |
and they were to help him with his recreation program. Now, 4 right
I did not come in contact with these people. A
Q So, you think I had better ask Mr. Greenough about 3 MR. A
that? ]
ou: F Ii
RR BE TT Sa SRE Sr yi beh ls hr el pit mn mick BES
A I think you had better asked Mr. Bailey about that.
Q Mr. Bailey was the one?
n if | A Yes, sir.
lumbing Q The South Alabama regional planning commission?
nical A The South Alabama regional planning commission is
er of what it says it is. It is a regional planning commission.
mber and It is a three county operation and local officials, as well
as appointed officials, serve on the regional planning
commission and every application for Federal funding
of comes through this regional planning commission.
Now, what we have done, as far as the City of
Mobile's government is concerned, we have appointed members
xhibit of our regular City planning commission to this commission
. and and, of course, you see the number there.
that It says one black and six total members, but there
ing it? are many blacks who serve on the South Alabama regional
ssioner planning commission from the other cities and from the
x other counties that are represented on this commission.
mended THE COURT:
them Total members of Mobile, though, is six; is that
am. Now, right?
A This is correct, your Honor.
n. about MR. ARENDALL:
RE I believe I have already asked you about the board
Sioa 338
866
of water and sewer commissioners.
Now, the employees insurance advisory board.
A This board was set up to help the City Commissioners
select the right kind of insurance program for our
employees. We selected persons from the various departments
to serve on this board and to screen all insurance programs
before these programs are presented to the City Commission
for approval.
For instance, if xyz company were to come to my
office this afternoon and say, look, we have a fantastic
plan and it is going to cost three dollars a month and
blah blah blah, and we want to put it on payroll deduction
and we would send this xyz company before this board and
let this board screen them and then if the board, representi
all of the emplcyees, thought that this was a fantastic
deal and they wanted it and they would bring it to the City
Commission and say we think this is great and we know these
'
ng
people can get more than the amount required. We have to have
three hundred before we put anything on payroll deductions.
And we say, okay. The committee approved it. You go out
and get your three hundred and dom't come back until you
have your three hundred, because we are not going to put
it on payroll deduction.
THE COURT:
_ 349
housir
impor#
City c
black
THE CC
carees
A
and s=
Soke : 867
I lost out on the board of water and sewer
commissioners.
ssioners MR. ARENDALL :
1 guess we can come back to that, Judge. This is the
Rrtments organization established under state law, which runs sani-
EOgrams tary sewer and water for the city and, indeed, some outlying
ission areas, doesn't it?
A This is correct. I might add, in addition to the
my housing board, this is, without a doubt, one of the most
Stic important boards that we have, because every family in the
nd City of Mobile 1s affected by this board and we could have one
muetion black gentleman on this board.
ahd THE COURT:
presenting | Although it is established by state law, does the
tic City make the appointments?
he City A Yes, sir. We make the appointments.
W Shee] THE COURT:
ve to have All right.
ctions. MR. ARENDALL:
o out This is the board that Mr. Von Sprecken is chief
you career man on; isn't it?
put A That's right. He is the superintendent of the water
and sewer board.
fos
T co J50 1
MR. ARENDALL:
We expect to have him here, Judge.
All right. The next one is Mobile County Hospital
Board and I have some notation on my copy of this Exhibit --
I am not sure it is on the original. It looks like your
typing and it says "Owned by University of South Alabama.
City ‘has no connection" .
A I am not sure that this board. even functions any
longer. You know, we turned the hospital over to the
university and they operate it. We have no connection with
it any longer.
Q I see. Frank S. Keeler Memorial Hospital?
A I think they are out of business, also.
Q The Arts Hall of Fame committee. Do you know what
that is?
A Well, it looks like one member and I am not sure who
that is unless it is the recreation commissioner.
Q See if this sounds like a 1971 state act under which
persons are to be elected to the State Arts Hall of Fame and
|must have background in arts and the City Commissioner has
appointed a representative of the Mobile Art Gallery Board; does that sound about right?
A It sounds about right to me.
85%
|
|
o The next is Public Education Building authority. Is
|
|
868
that ar
of emp]
further
co-opez
might
employe
Jones w
law, or
City Co
then wo
in what
have to
three y
money oO
screen
with
1at
> who
Is
i
n
a
SE
S
A
S
SL
“a
R
E
E
A
A
R
a
T
H
Ly
869
that another one of these industrial revenue bonds?
A Yes. It is strictly a financing thing.
Q And the educational board?
A ~The educational board, no doubt here, is the group
of employees that we have that screens the applicants for
furthering their education. In other words, we try to co-operate with our employees as much as we can so that they
might further their education.
In fact, the City Commission pays a portion of
employees tuition, say, at the University and, say, patrolman
Jones wanted to go to school at night and take up criminal
law, or whatever, and he would make his application to the
City Commission through this educational board and the boara
then would screen this applicant and make sure he is sincere
in what he is trying to do and we have requirements that you
have to stay with the City "x" number of years. I think it ia
three years after you get your degree or after you use this
money or else you have to refund the money, but these boards
screen these employees. : '
Q Members of that board are largely employees of the
City, members of the public, or what type of persons?
A As I recall it, they are employees, department heads,
and maybe someone from the personnel board on here.
Q Now, Mr. Mims, there has been a lot of testimony in
302
p Sy gs Ta Se le lS os | 870
here about surface drainage in Mobile. the Va
THE COURT: ,
Why don't we take a break right here. Take about a E soils
fifteen minute break.
# "|| course
(RECESS) draina
THE COURT: 4 centur
All right. You may proceed, & built
MR. ARENDALL: «|| here n
If your Honor please, I would like to apologize to i
the Court on an error in judgement that I made. Mr. Mims had 5 | proble
told me that at four-thirty that he had to leave here in order 4 tremens
to get to Santa Rosa Island to speak to some three or fous and th
hundred people. I told him that I thought we could have : areas ;
completed the examination and cross-examination. I have | . of the
taken so long with my direct today that I doubt if we make it 4
THE COURT: EN nas be
Just go ahead and let him finish up tomorrow. § but thi
MR. ARENDALL: | recent.
Thank you, Judge.
Mr. Mims, your department has charge of Mobile drainage materia
problems? my mair
A That is correct. existec
Q. Tell us generally about them and what you have done some ki
and indicate whether or not you have sought to treat fairly
__ 333
bout a
ze to
Mims had
in order
four
ave
ave
make it
e drainag
870
je
871
the varios black areas.
A Well, under the supervision of the public works
commissioner, comes the general heading of drainage and, of
course, the City of Mobile has been plagued with severe
drainage problems for not only decades, but I would assume
centuries. The ground or the topography here, the City is
built on the river, as you know, and it all started right
here near the river and moved westward.
It is very low lying areas and we had Gremendous
problems in the old part of Mobile with drainage. We have |
tremendous problems in the new part of Mobile with erosion |
and the sand washes down off of the hills into the low lying |
areas and clogs up the drainage systems in the old sections |
of the city. |
So, for centuries we have had drainage problems. Thete
has been a lot of talk about drainage for a number of years, |
but there was not an awfully lot done about it until
recently. : i |
When I first ran for office in 1965 and my advertising
material and my brochures will substantiate this, that one of |
my main concerns was drainage and alleviating the problems that
existed. So, the first thing I did was to try to establish
some kind of systematic maintenance program and we gave
|
|
| |
|
|
872
instructions to the public works superintendent and to all
drainage personnel that these drainage easements were to be
maintained on a periodic basis. We bought some of the finest
sgutpiatt. ena can be bought to clean catch basins and to clean
storm drains. Some of the most modern equipment to clean
ditches like Three Mile Creek and One Mile Creek and Bolton's
Branch and Saltwater Branch and the various others -- what
we call unimproved drainage easements and it has been our
policy, over the last ten years, to maintain these easements
on a regular basis and testimony here during this trial has
indicated that the city has cleaned these drainage easements
on a periodic basis.
In addition to the maintenance program, the cleaning
of these drainage easements, we have entered into what we
call the master drainage program of the City of Mobile. For
a number of years we tried to get into this and finally came
to the conclusion that we were not going to ever get this
drainage corrected until we just, you might say, go into it
headlong and try to find the money and sell bonds and get the
revenue or the bonds to do the projects.
So, in 1972 the City Commission met and agreed to
the master drainage program. We have sold bonds, millions of |
dollars worth of bonds, to be paid over to the next number of
years and we are making many improvements in areas of both |
TUES T=
white an
years, {i
citizens
the reson
a long ws
drainage
and prome
Q ):
program?
A Ta
I imagine
THE COURT
| |S
A |=
and other
to the pr
MR. ARENDm
you with
A W
engineeri-
engineers
three wate
812 : AR 873
all 4 white and black where problems have existed for over a hundred
to be PE years, in some cases.
finest I have gone into these communities and talked to our
to clean ¢ || citizens, both black and white, about the problems and with
ean : the resources available, I think the City of Mobile has come
olton's a long way in improving the drainage in our city. Our master
what : deatnage program, as far as I am concerned, has been initiated
our and promoted without regard to race, whatsoever. |
-ements Q Let's see, what is the total estimated cost of that
1 has E 1 progres
ements | 4 A Well, we started out with about twenty million, but
i. I imagine, by 1980, we will have spent thirty million dollars|
_eaning ; THE COURT:
— we | What do you mean you started out?
=. For 1 A Well, that was our projected program, but inflation
-y came 3 and other things have caused prices to go up and we had added
his ] to the project and .......
to it | : MR. ARENDALL:
get the Do you have outside engineering consultants to advise
you with reference to that, or is this done by city personnel?
1 to 3 A Well, when we went into this program we assigned three
dions of engineering companies to this master drainage program and thege
amber of] 1 engineers have certain water sheds assigned to them. We have
Poth | > 3 three water sheds in Mobile; the Three Mile Creek water shed,
Th gO
————
The Dog River - Eslava Creek water shed, and the Mobile River
water shed. Every drop of water that falls into Mobile, goes
into one of these three water sheds.
Each one of these engineering firms, Polyengineering,
David Volkhert and J. B. Conversing Company, have one of these | water sheds assigned to them and they are doing the designing
bi
of the storm water system in these areas. We have made a
| great deal of progress.
| but what you can't see some of the progress that has been
There is not an area in the City
brought about because of this drainage program and, in the
years between now and 1980, the program that can be presented
here shows our projected projects.
0 Has some work been done in each of the three water
|
| shed areas?
A Yes. This is true. HQ Approximately how much money have you spent so far on
| actual out of pocket expenditures, to date? Could you give
i
| us that figure? :
tl
!
|)
A I can't recall, but it would be more than ten million
\
{dollars has been spent already on the master drainage program.
i
|Q Do the engineers tell you that once it is completed
|that Mobile will then be adequately drained?
1
A Well, I don't think you would ever find an engineer
357 | =
| 8%
or politician, either, that was in his right mind that would |
say yc
situat
dously
have w
whole
comple
Q
proble
specif
A
right
been t
been t
Vers b
Q
A
area a-
with s
mentio:-
to adm
governs
dollar:
need ha
THE COR
ile River
ile, goes
rineering,
1e of these
designing
pade a
> City
3 been
in the
presented
p water
so far on
vou give
en million
ge program.
pmpleted
engineer
hat would |
ob I
875
Jn a ——
}
say you would always be protected from a storm or flooding
situation. Normal flooding conditions will be eased tremen-
dously when this entire program has been completed, but if yo
have what they call a hundred year flood come, you know, the
whole area could get under water. We can't protect the area
completely from God's floods, you know.
Q You mentioned some white areas that have had this
problems and I would like for you to mention some of those
specific locations, if you will, please.
A Well, there is one project that we have under way
right now that has -- where there is a need and the need has
been there for a hundred years, I am sure. I know it has
been there for over fifty years, because I know people who
Vere born there fifty years or more ago.
Q Where is that?
A This is in the Laurel - Devitt - Monterey Street
area and I might add that “we had a community meeting there
with some people, including Mr. Brown, whose name has been
mentioned here and other testimony and I think he would have
to admit that he got mighty good response out of the City
We're spending over a million government in this project.
dollars This in the Monterey - Laurel - Devitt Street area.
need has been there, as I said, for low many years.
THE COURT:
| | |
ass
I am familiar with Monterey Street, which is between
Springhill Avenue and Government Boulevard. Is that the
Monterey area you are talking about?
A Yés, your Honor. | THE COURT: Does it go also south of Government Street?
A Monterey does.
| MR. BLACKSHER:
Yes, sir. One block.
1
| THE COURT:
|B! |
The area you are speaking of is north of Government?
A Yes, sir.
|
| THE COURT:
| All right.
| MR. ARENDALL:
i
Now, let's talk about drainage and some of these other
if A
| areas that there has been some testimony about. There has bepn 48
|
&
| some talk here about Trinity Gardens, that area came into the | Q
; gE || Mi
| city only in 1961, did it not? $ :
| : & prob:
HA I believe that is when the vote was taken by the
A
people in that area. It was in 1965, I believe, that services ;
| ., you .
were provided and the people began to pay taxes. gt
: i i
; E extrs
Q Just in a general way, would you tell us what the 5
FE end
basic problem is there, as you understand it, with reference [O S 1
— = EF of de
oe |
876
between
_ the
sernment ?
these other
ere has bepen
e into the
y the
at services
at the
|
reference ko
87
drainage?
A Well, I will be happy to, because I have been in the
Trinity Gardens area many times and must confess that the
problem there is an unusual problem and it is mainly because
the area lies between some railroads and down in kind of a
low land or flat land that has been described here, in Eesti
mony, that was like a saucer, which is a good way to describe
it, because it is going to take an awful lot of drainage to |
get the water out of the area and we have been working on it
over the years and, with our community development program
that we mentioned here earlier, we should be able to drain
this area and then we can move on into the paving of the
streets.
2 When it gets drained, where does the water go? On
what water shed is it located?
A This goes into the Three Mile Creek water shed.
Q Isn't that going to compound your problems on Three
Mile Creek that you heard testimony here about, the Crichton
problem? Wouldn't that compound your problem?
A Any time you put more water into a stream, I guess
you compound your problems. However, we have worked
extremely hard to get Three Mile Creek cleaned out on the
end near the river and we have spent thousands upon thousands
!
of dollars dredging Three Mile Creek and we feel that, with
360
an as | §:
these improvements, as well as the study that is being made : SEAL
now by the Corp of Engineers and, incidentally, this bill wag pavii
just passed whereby a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in A
planning money for the Corp of Engineers was set aside. oS
The Corp of Engineers fit into this Three Mile Creek, §
because Three Mile Creek runs into Mobile River and Mobile b igh
%
River is part of the Tennessee, Tom Bigby program. Anyway, £ ve
we have a hundred and fifty thousand dollars planning money i ee
and the Corp of Engineers is going to help us with the
drainage on Three Mile Creek.
Q There has been some talk, also, about drainage
problems in the Plateau area.
On what water shed is that?
THE COURT:
Where does Three Mile Creek run into Mobile River?
A Well, it crosses Telegraph road north of here where
5 prob]
the little bridge is where you see some little tugboats E
sitting there, right north of the State Docks, to be more 4 i
fe * C ty
specific.
| Trin#
THE COURT:
area
All right.
MR. ARENDALL: #
Going back to Trinity Gardens for just a moment. 3
probl
I understood you to say as soon as you could get your
A ae Pe 4
361
ann | §: vo 8178
ing made § drainage worked out there, then you would go in with street
S bil) wad gE .paving; is that right?
lars in A This is correct and, if I might say this, one of
id . Bx i
2 A my concerns naturally has been the streets of Mobile and the!
ils Crees, 14 only unimproved streets we have left within the city, you
Mobil bi |
9 S 8 might say, are located in the Trinity Gardens area. We have |
Anyway, E: |
ynay g paved dozens of miles of streets in the last ten years in
ng money 4
fi Mobile and we have a few left in Trinity Gardens.
the &
£ It is absolutely impossible for us to pave these
) E
| streets until we drain the area. We have paved some streets | fo E |
age
8 in Trinity Gardens,the ones we felt like we could pave and,
you know, get by with, so to speak. Because it is absolutelw
E money thrown away to go out and put asphalt in an area that |
2 you can't dry out and the streets will stay torn up all the i
River? 8 |
T time and fail and you will have a problem, sure enough
re where 3 |
io problem, on your hands. - |
oats x |
8 So, we have just about paved every street in the |
e more §
4 City of Mobile with the exception of those right there in
J Trinity Gardens which we hope to get as soon as we get the |
R
!
E area drained as with these community development funds.
4 Q Now, there has been some talk about Plateau.
4 On what water shed is it, or does it have a drainage
ment. 4 : |
problem?
d get your ; .
CAS atte) | A Not what you would call a general drainage problem
= az |
i Fe AY ry ~-+--. 889
like Trinity Gardens. I doubt if you could point to any place=
community in the City and say it is completely free of all
drainage problems. flash
But Plateau does not have the general problem as doeg As fas
Trinity Gardens. Q
Q There was some talk here about dead bodies getting in tha
washed away. Would you tell us about that, if you know | A
anything about it? | To my
Av I think that was an exaggeration. It was called to but tE
my attention a year or so ago that there was a problem with vhat ¢
a cemetary. We did some work around this cemetary and some Shopp:
of my staff people can elaborate on that more than I and get arose
into detail on it, but we did do some work around the cemetary. Creek.
I understand that this area was being used as a burying place ated. c
down off the side of a hill and on down into what you might sod fi
call a slew or spillway or drainage easement and I am sure
| that in case of a flash flood or something of this sort, the the os
whole area was covered with water and it is very likely that ate a}
some of the grave sites were covered with water, because the millic
| people are buried right on down into the low land. masta
| I don't know where the health department has been, on a .
whoever is supposed to regulate the cemetaries, but whoever ils 1 thin
supposed to inspect cemetaries and regulate them, spparenely; Q
were not stopping the burying of people down in these low
T7363 Lai
—- TT NSH EURIIERS R— SO —— ee
places.
I think you could safely say, in some places, when a
flash flood came that the water, perhaps, covered the graves.
1
en as doed As far as bodies floating around, I think that is an exaggeration.
Q There has also been some complaint about the drainage
getting in the Crichton - Liberty Park area?
know | A Yes. There is a tremendous problem in that area.
| To my knowledge, it doesn't present any flooding problem, i
called to but there is a big ditch that comes down through Crichton |
lem with that originates up ‘about Pages Lane or back of Delchamps |
and sone Shopping Center there and goes down by Nall Street and |
I and get across Bayshore and Mobile Streets and on into Tpree Mile |
he c .
engtany Creek. It is a huge drainage easement. The people in the
Ying place area continuously are filling it with old tires and litter
ou might and furniture and the maintenance problem is tremendous.
RI Sure Some homes have been built right up on the edge of
SOREL: Ihe the creek. - We are aware of some of these problems, but we
kely that |
| are also aware of the fact that it is going to cost several
~ause the |
s been, orf
millions of dollars to correct this problem. - It is in our
]
master drainage program and it will be taken.care of, but,
as I say again, with the resources that we had available,
whoever te
|
=e low |
gs
|
I think we have done a fantastic job with our drainage program.
tl ; sparent.y Q Mr. Mims, earlier in the trial I introduced, as Exhibit
264
ERERARIR 8 ENE er SE FL RR TS RA 0 SE A BE 1 a 3 |
80, a news release that you had issued on March 16, 1970. : lar a
Would you hand him a copy of that, please? 1 me ba
I believe his Honor inquired as to whether this fifty
million one hundred and forty-one thousand three hundred and 4 A
seventy-four dollars that is stated on the second page to have provi
been the total expenditures between October, 1965 and March | the a
16, 1970, was all spent in an effort to do something about | in 19
the problems in Trinity Gardens? | these
A This is correct. | time,
Q And is it fair to say, too, that during that period THE C
of time Trinity Gardens had produced only twenty-seven
thousand dollars in property taxes for the City? ; provi
A I had our revenue people develope these figures and 5 to re
I am sure they can be substantiated. 2 A
THE COURT: 3 every
Mr. Arendall, are you suggesting that when an area § MR. A
of the city doesn't produce certain revenue, they are not E
entitled to certain services? ; 4 refer
MR. ARENDALL: J a not
No, sir. I am not. What I wanted to do was to ask | 4 feder
him this next. 1 porti
Mr. Mims, does not this demonstrate that the policy |
of the City of Mobile, with reference to the expenditure of E had u
public funds has been dictated by a desire to help a particu- 1 Water
- | e Sel R
| L389. |
> ape : EEARRAT IE Ae Sa | 883
1970. lar area that needs them as distinguished from just giving
me back fifty dollars a year in services if I pay the City
this fifty dollars in taxes?
adred and A Well, I can say emphatically that we have tried to
age to have provided these services in the Trinity Gardens area, because
1d March | the area became taxable right after I was elected to office
> about | in 1965 and I began, as public works commissioner, to provide
| i these services in the Trinity Gardens area. Prior to that
i time, they didn't have any service at all.
: period 3 THE COURT:
&
ren | I take it that your contention that the City
4 provides services according to needs rather than according
ires and 4 to revenue? | |
a A Yes, sir. If I might add we can't always do everything
1 everybody wants done in any given community.
n area 4 MR. ARENDALL:
'e not 1 Now, I notice on the second page here, there is a
4 reference to sewer installation and water installation and
| 1 a note that two hundred and fifty-eight thousand dollars of
to ask | | federal funds had been secured and a further note that a
| f portion will be returned over a ten year period in assessments.
policy | 4 Taking, first, the item of sewer installations, I
ture of | : had understood from your prior testimony that the Board of
particus 1 Water and Sewer comalssioners were in charge of the sanitary
| ] 366.
sewer development for the city in this area.
Would you explain how it came about that the City
itself was in the picture here?
A Well, the water and sewer board was established, to
begin with, in order that that entity might sell bonds and
provide these services for the people. Over a period of
years the board of water and sewer commissioners apparently
reached their debt limit and they could not sell any more
bonds. Then the citizens of Mobile, these in particular,
Trinity Gardens, as well as thousands of others, came to the
board of City Commissioners, at that time, and said, look,
we want these services. We are in the city and we want these
services. These people in Trinity Gardens came into the City
and began to pay taxes in '65 and said we want these services
and we go to the water and sewer board and say, look, you are
88
suppose to provide these services and they say we can't provide as far as debt
|
the service because we are at our limits,
is concerned.
The City Commission turned around then and sold bonds
|
and made these improvements and assessed part of the cost |
against the property owners and this is the only way these
improvements could have been put in, at that time. I think
it was a case of a city government responding to the needs
of the people.
A
re ———————————
367
88s | i av 885
Q That would be true of the momey as indicated here
, City for water installation, I take it?
i A Yes. They were both installed at the same time.
shed, to Q Now, you have mentioned briefly, among your duties
ds and as public works commissioner, is that of paving and you have
yd of spoken about that generally. Let me ask you a few general
arently questions.
ry more A Where a subdivider desires to take a rather large |
lar, : piece of property and turn it into a lot sales venture, who |
we to the : puts in the streets?
look, : A The developer. :
;ant these 1 Q Does' he have to do that in accordance with City
y the City a specifications as to the nature of the street and the
s sarvice) E underground drainage and things of that sort?
¢, you are i A Yes, he does, and then he turns them over to the
n't provide 4 City when he has completed the project.
debt 4 Q Once they are inspected and approved by the City, they
4 then become City streets, but it is the developer who puts
sold a 1 them in; is that correct?
. CORL | i A This is correct. :
4
v these | 4 Q Would it be fair to say that since the basic growth
1 think E of the city has largely been to the western section of the
e needs City that many of the streets in that area have been paved
i by private individuals as distinguished by the City?
iE 868
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—
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A Well, this is absolutely correct.
Q Then in those areas, however, where there have been
no real estate developments in recent years the City, itself
has been the one to do the paving; is that right?
A On all unimproved streets where there were residences
the City has gone in on an assessment basis and improved the
streets and, as I said a moment ago, we have just about
taken care of every one with the exception of some in Trinity
Gardens.
Q Now, there was a lady here earlier in the case who
-- no, a gentleman, Mr. Pettaway, who was talking about
Lincoln Street.
I understood him to say that the people out there had
always been willing to pay for an assessment for street
improvements and then I introduced Exhibit 81 on that subject.
Do you recall the Lincoln Street situation?
A I recall Lincoln Street quite well, because I set
on a Reverand Mr. Smith's porch in 1965 and discussed the
problem with him. I discussed it a number of times after
that date with him.
It was not until about a year ago -- I don't recall
the dates, that we first learned that these people were
willing to pay an assessment. Prior to that time they wanted
|
the City to put the streets in because they had problems and,
369 2
ave been
'y, itself]
residencer
yroved the
bout
in Trinity
ase who
bout
- there had
“reet
1at subject.
> 1 set
sed the
3s after
't recall |
were |
they wanted
|
oblems and,
i S—
the Lincoln Street project was not a high priority item,
to the best of my recollection, they never indicated that
they wanted to pay or would be willing to pay any portion
of it. My position was that it was a hard surface paved
street at the time and we had much greater needs in other
areas and our responsibility is an awesome responsibility,
when you try to establish priorities, and, in my opinion,
but when the people decided that they wanted to have a part
in it and pay the assessment, then the City Commission moved!
ahead with the improvement program and it is under gg
tion right now. : |
THE COURT:
What is the distinction about when the City pays
for it? I assume when you say certain high priority areas
where you do paved work without assessment, what makes the
|
|
|
determination where you pave without assessment and where |
:
you don't? |
A We don't assess, your Honor, on major streets. Take
Airport Boulevard, for instance, that is a major street.
Normally we try to get some federal or state and county
participation in a project such as this. On all residential
streets that we improve, whether it be low cost or regular
curb and gutters and underground drainage, we do it on an
assessment basis.
370
THE COURT:
Are all the streets in the area -- is Lincoln Street
a residential section?
A Yes, sir. And as I said, it was not until they agreed
to the assessment program -- let me explain the assessment
program. We could go out and say we are going to assess part
‘of this project to the property owners. We assess one-sixth
of the cost of the project to the property owner. So, it
still costs, out of the treasury of the City of Mobile, many
thousands of dollars on most any kind of project, because one-
sixth on each side of the street would be actually one-third.
If a project costs ninety thousand dollars, sixty
‘thousand comes right out of the treasury where thirty thousand
comes out on either side of the street.
0 What is your policy with reference to the construction of sidewalks? A number of black witnesses have complained
I
because they don't have sidewalks.
a Well, it has been our policy to install sidewalks
in any area where the people petition the City Commission for
sidewalks, because we assess the cost of that improvement
against the property. Our policy on new subdivisions is that
t hey install the sidewalks. So, if a new subdivision goes in,
before we accept the subdivision, the developer places the
sidewalks on the property.
GF
over {
commur
the nt
and tk}
hearin
MR. AR
thousa-
many h-
and in
Commis.
keep on
land as
resur fz
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tion tt
referer
matters
} Street
1ey agreed
isment
ess part
ie-sixth
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-ause one-
ie-third.
ixty
* thousand
gStruction
ained
*alks
sion for |
-ment
is that
: goes in,
-s the
over the two-thirds or three-fourths of the people in the
community to please the one-fourth or one-third.
Our normal way of handling it is for a community,
the number of people -- ever how mamy to request the sidewalks
and then we would try to initiate the program and have the
hearing and move on with it.
MR. ARENDALL:
That probably is clear, but you would not’, for
example, assess for repaving Government Street, would you?
basis. That is 3 maintenance problem.
We spend about two hundred and fifty to three hundred
thousand dollars a year on resurfacing. Right now we hz e
many hundreds of miles of streets that need to be resurfaced
and in the not too distant future I will be coming to the
Commissioners on my knees with hat in hand, so to speak, to
keep our streets in good repair.
That comes right out of the general fund of the City
land as a maintenance expenditure. We don't assess for
resurfacing. |
Q Do you believe, Mr. Mims, that under Sore administra-
tion that the black communities have been treated fairly with
reference to drainage, paving, sidewalks and -- well, those
3V2~ |
A No resurfacing programs are not done on an assessment |
matters? |
893
———— ———————————
I don't think I have ever -- in A I most certainly do.
fact, I will be emphatic and say I have never denied any
citizen a service that he expects with his tax money because o
a certain color or social standing.
Q Now, there has been some testimony here about weeds and underbrush on large tracts, specifically about some
What is the policy of the City with reference to large |
tracts?
A We have a state law and I am not familiar with the
|
number and what not, but I know it is a state law that deals ‘with noxious weeds. ' This law allows us to post a lot and SY |
!
lit if the property owner does not cut it and assess it against
|
his property. Our policy on large tracts of land, if we get
I
la complaint from Mrs. Jones, who lives next door to this
i
large tract of land, our policy is to go out and post a i
[fifry foot strip around this ten acre tract or whatever it
1
i
might be, and give the property owner who lives next door to |
i
i
ithis tract at least a clearing between them and the underbrush
land the wooded area, so to speak.
i
|
Now, normally this is sufficient and most people are |
appreciative of the fact that they can get this strip cut next
to their property.
your ca
A
things
the Uni
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from an
THE COU
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901.
A Well, not officially.
A No, but on occasion Dr. Tunstill has been present
with these other people to give me advisement.
THE COURT:
If I understand you correctly, you haven't formalized
your campaign into committees?
We had people doing a lot of |
When I ran for
the United States Senate, Dr. Tunstill was a part of it and |
things in every campaign I have ever been in.
he was right there, but in these City races we welcome help
from anyone of any color or any standing.
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
MR. BLACKSHER:
I didn't really understand your answer to the Judge's
question, but I will move on to the next one. |
|
|
Did you regularly, in all of your campaigns, have a
campaign headquarters that was staffed by people during Faatefer
hours you kept? |
A Yes, we have.
Q Tell me the names of the black people who have
staffed your campaign headquarters?
A We did not have black people in the campaign head-
quarters. My brother is my clitpatn chairman and he is very
particular about who sees our list of supporters and people
: 373
NR SE 902
who are helping us. He runs the campaign and I try to run
the office after I get elected.
Q Jeff Mims is your brother?
A This is correct.
Q And he is chairman of the County Democratic Executive
Committee?
| A This is correct.
Q Now, about all of these boards and committees,
Mr. Mims, would the Clerk please show the witness Plaintiff's |
Exhibit number 64.
How many of these -- can you point out the boards
and committees on this list which, I presume, is comprehensive,
to your knowledge, right, and contains all the boards and
committees that the city has any appointing power to?
A So far as I know, yes.
i Q How many of them, to your knowledge, are set up under |
State law as opposed to being established by city ordinance?
1
A I could not answer that.
|
i
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|
|
'Q What about the board of water and sewer commissioners?
|
That is established under State law, isn't it?
|
n It is my understanding that it is.
Q Do you have any idea of how many of these or which of
these boards and committees are subject to the control of the City Commission to the extent that the City Commission can
. 4375 |
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THE COUR
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THE COURT:
change the ground rules about what it is suppose to do, who
it's members are and so forth?
A No, I don't. As far as I know, the water and sewer
board, for instance, is charged with the responsibility for
providing sanitary sewers, water service for the City of
Mobile and I don't have anyone who would want to change that.
According to my notes only two were established by |
State law, the boards, the South Alabama Regional Planning |
Commission, I assume, was established by either the State or
some federal regulation, and that is the only ones that I
have that indicate, besides the City establishing them --
well, is that true, the board of adjustment, the board of
water and sewer commissioners, and the South Alabama Regional
Planning Commission?
A Well, I think you would find the Housing Board would
be -- has to be a State act that would allow a housing
authority.
THE COURT:
Just one minute. What number is that?
MR. ARENDALL:
If I may, we have not researched this and I am really
not sure. I believe all of these boards that will relate
to licensing people are probably under some state law which
36
says that the various municipalities shall do such and such a numbe
in order to issue licenses for contractors and electricians well an
and plumbers and so on. We have not researched and I cannot eomplal
make Hint ststeneht. i But Mr.
THE COURT:
been re
All right. Q
; MR. BLACKSHER: A
Ii | Well, concerning the board of water and sever Q
| | conmissioners, Mr. Mims, have you made any appointments to thdt a membe
board personally? A
A Yes, I have. Q
Q How many? A
A Well, I regret to say that I think I have one was bla
appointment in all the years. It has worked around where I THE COU
have one man on there, Mr. Dennis Moore. I have been in
office eleven years and Mr. Moore is my one and only for tha
appointment. A
There was some mix-up, if I might add, because of ; known b:
some people dying and some particular person appointed them i time.
and they felt that they should replace that person or fill that b MR. ARE]
vacancy. Many of these people I have known and certainly Revd {
concurred in their appointment. 1 prepares
The late Bishop Phillips was a very close friend of ¢ THE COUS
mine and served ably on the water and sewer commission for
AE ar d
such : a number of years and some of the other people I know quite
vians : well and have utmost confidence in them. So, I am not
ANOLE v complaining because I can't, you know, appoint but one person,
. { But M2. Moore I appointed a number of years ago and he has
{ been reappointed at least once since then or maybe twice.
: Q Mr. Moore is white, isn't he?
A Yes, he is.
Q I thought we established that Milton Jones is currently
3 to that 2 nenber? .
A Yes. He is and Mr. Jones is black. |
Q ~ And you were saying that Bishop Phillips was also?
A He was on there prior to Mr. Jones. Bishop Phillips
was black. |
te 1 THE COURT: |
n This shows no prior black members. Can you account
for that? ; |
A I did not prepare this. Reverand Bishop Phillips |
of known by everybody around Mobile, was on there for a long |
them i gige.
111 that : MR. ARENDALL: :
11y have { Judge, we had this prepared by Irene -- no, Mr. Menefée
3 prepared this. We gave some basic information to Mr. Menefee
od of : THE COURT:
for Counsel for Plaintiff?
Les Fs
MR. ARENDALL:
THE COURT:
| THE COURT:
A
| .
Yes. Mr. Menefee prepared this and I will be frank
to say that I didn't check it.
All right. I am going to put one in parenthesis by
that, prior black members.
Do you know whether or not you gave the information
that Mr. Phillips previously served on that board?
MR. BLACKSHER:
| Bishop Phillips and Mr. Menefee informs me that
Mrs. Quinn identified the persons on this list who were
black and failed to jdentify Bishop Phillips.
All right.
MR. BLACKSHER:
So there are actually two out of the twelve people
o
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that have been on that board that have been black?
I don't have that information before me.
I believe you testified, Mr. Mims, that you had some
A
Q
difficulty finding citizens to serve on these various boards.
Have you had difficulty finding people to serve on
these boards?
On the water and sewer board?
Yes, sir.
379
|
|
one apr
have nc
walked
partici
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A
Q
qualifi
you jus
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in blacl
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door is
Wednesd:
whites &
communi t
907
L A Well, as I indicated a moment ago, I have only made
frank : one appointment that I could point to and that is Mr. Moore.
4
Q Did you have any difficulty locating someone?
A No. I did not, because I appointed Mr. Moore and I
is by i have not had an opportunity to appoint anyone else since.
Q You have given us an example of how Mr. Gary Cooper
nation % walked into your office one day and said that he wanted to
participate and I believe you said that you had never seen
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him before and that provided you an opportunity to appoint
at him to some board.
re A To the audiotorium board.
Q Isn't that a general problem you have in finding
qualified black persons to serve on these boards is that
you just don't know that many black persons personally, like
you do the white people that live in your immediate yeople community? A I know a lot of black people, personally. I speak
in black churches. I go to black meetings. I know a lot
of black people.
You have to have people that express interest. My
4 door is open to people. I have a meet the mayor day every
Wednesday and I have people coming and going, blacks and
whites and unless people express an interest in serving their E
He aA : community on a specific board or in a specific area then it is
| ; ~ 380
not my policy to go out and pick people, you know, and put
them on a board unless I know they want to serve and unless
I know they have some interest in a particular area.
Q Are you saying that you have never appointed anyone
to a board at your own initiative or at your own invitation,
but have only responded to requests that were made in the
first instance by other people?
A I have requested certain black leaders to provide
me black lists of black people that would be willing to
serve on boards. I know a lot of black people, but to have
them say I want to serve or I will be willing to give so
many hours a month, a very few of them have done this. I am
going to be frank with you about that.
Q Who are the hlack leaders you requested to provide
a list?
A Various people, ministers and various leaders in the
community.
Q Name one.
A Well, the Bishop that I just mentioned awhile ago
has provided some names over the years.
Q Bishop Phillips?
A Yes.
Q Who else?
A Reverand Tunstill;, and Mr. LeFlore use to provide
- 908
134
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you rec
A
serious
black f
serve c
because
qualifi
Q
wheneve
communi
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A
Q
well it
board a:
and ask
|
| 908
909
d put | some names.
unless 3 Q Mr. LeFlore?
| A And others.
anyone : Q And others? Others that you can't recall, now?
tation, : A | No. I can recall. I just mentioned Dr. Carroll.
the Sa fact, of the business, I helped to get Dr. Carroll appointed
; to a state position.
vide r Have all of these people provided you with a list that
to [vou requested? |
© have A They would give me a name now and then. I doubt eis
Bo | seriously if aSbody has given me a list of names. I rely on]
Len black people I know to tell me if a certain person wants to |
serve or will serve or is qualified to serve. I don't think
ovide because a person is black or white makes him necessarily |
! qualified to serve in a given area. |
in the 4 Q You have requested, you say, a list of names, but
: whenever you have had a chance to want to approach the black
y community you have gone to one of these black leaders that
ago ‘ ) | you knew and ask them for a name, is that what you are saying?
: A Well, yes.
“ Q So, what kind of occasions would prompt you to say
A ( well it is time for me to consider a black person for this
| board and I will see one of my friends, who is a black leader,
vide oe ; |land ask him for a name.
._ 383.%
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. various boards and committees and groups. They send in these
I
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, opening coming up and it is important to me to make the
i
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ir
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' appointment, then I will look over the list of people that
i that you have confidence in?
LA 1 have friends that I have confidence in and I have
friends that I don't consult for advice and then I have a lot
| of acquaintances and I am sure that every individual, whether!
"he is in politics or not, has close associates, friends and
T
E
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—
—
A What kind of an occasion?
Q What time would you do that? Everytime you had an
appointment would you request the name of qualified blacks
that you ‘ould ‘consider along with other people or just
certain occasions when this would come up?
A ~ Well, on some of these boards, as it has already
been indicated, you have to have engineers and architects and
>
things like this and you get these recommendations from these
recommendations.
On others, like the audiotorium board, if there is an
1 have confidence in and I might call.
Q You have a list that you keep at your desk of people
acquaintances. So, if I were looking for a person to put on
a board this afternoon I would call somebody that knew people
Q Out in which community?
9 383:
out in that community, both black and white. |
pe
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board w
that th
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afternos
mind whe
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and tres
appoint
of them
Q
you must
910 J%. 911
A In whatever community I was trying to find or whatever
d an 3 area I was trying to find an appointment in.
acks i Q Well, I guess that is what we are trying to get at
It 3 is to figure out how you zero in on 2 community when you
find out there is a need for an appointment?
dy A Well, if one of my appointments on the audiotorium
cts and 3 board were to resign this afternoon and .it was determined
ym these : that this person was my appointment and -- incidentally,
In these] : I appointed the first black to that board and appointed the
: first woman and the first woman black I appointed to that
re is an E board and so if that opening were to come about this
he afternoon, then I would start researching within my own
that PF mind who I could fill that vacancy with and it might be tnac
% I would call a white person or it might be that I call a
people EF black person and ask for a recommendation, someone that
3 was qualified to serve and someone in whom I had great
I have i confidence.
ve a Joe ¥ I have not made it a great practice calling up these
whether | . people after they got appointed to a board and pull strings
ds and x and treat them as a puppet. That is not ny policy. I
) put on | 5 appoint people I have confidence in and on occasions some
w people } of them have disappointed me.
| % Q You said that there are a number of committees where
aan you must select persons nominated by boards of architects or
; 384
|
engineers and what else did you mention?
A Well, some of these you have to have someone familiar
with air conditioning, for instance, and air conditioning
professional groups. I don't even remember what they are call, but they make these recommendations. I can't help it,
because they don't have a black air conditioning engineer that they recommend to us.
o Let's get something straight. You are not saying that
‘there are no qualified black engineers or air conditioning
H
people or whatever; you are not saying that?
A I am saying that I have tried to find a black civil
engineer for eleven years and I don't have one yet on my staff
h There are no black civil engineers in Mobile?
A I have not been able to locate them.
i
n Okay. Where do you look when you are looking for a
black civil engineer?
A I have been told a number of engineers, including
I have talked to
people in other parts of the country who are in the public
rhe engineering school at South Alabama.
works field and I have talked to the commissioner of public
works in Atlanta, who is a black man, and who is a civil
engineer and he confesses he can't find black civil engineers
and I have let the personnel board know that I would like to
have a black engineer on my staff.
| 912
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We go into every area of the City and deal with all of
the people and I would like to have a black representative on
my staff, but I have not been able to locate a black civil
ngineer.
Does that hold true also for architects?
p The only black architect I know is Mr. Jones, who is
bn the water and sewer board.
|
D Do you know of any black architects employed with the
Corp of Engineers?
h I think that is the problem, the federal government
takes them all.
Just because he was employed at the Corp of Engineers
oard?
No. You miss the point.
|
R
pe stop you from appointing him to the water and sewer :
|
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nN I am sorry, give it to me again.
I am talking about as a staff person, now. I have
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THE COURT:
You mean a full time employee? "
A Yes, your Honor. I have looked for a black civil
engineer to put on the staff full time with the City of Mobile
hnd I have not been able to locate one.
MR. BLACKSHER:
P
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—
—
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—
—
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We were talking about boards and committees.
A Well, if I can't find one to hire, I certainly don't
know if I could find one to appoint to a board.
0 Well, you find an architect that you couldn't hire
that you probably could have appoint to a board.
A He is the only black architect that I know and I am
not trying to be smart. He is serving on our water and sewer
‘board and he works for the Corp of Engineers and I imagine
makes more money than he could working for us.
Q If I told you there were two other black architects
working for the Corp of Engineers alone, wouid that surprise
you?
A No. It wouldn't surprise me. I just don't know these
gentlemen.
Q This Mobile Transit Authority you said was recently
established and that is not on the list, is it?
A No. I don't think so, because it is fairly new.
Q How many members are on the authority and how many of
than are black?
A Well, I have two appointments and I think the other
two commissioners have two appointments and one of mine is
white and one of them is black.
Q I am sorry, run that by me again.
THE COURT:
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THE COURT
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THE COURT
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MR. BLACK.
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percentage
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A Si
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have done.
RQ I
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What is the total number?
A Six, your Honor. Each commissioner has appointed
two.
{|THE COURT: 3
How many total blacks?
A One.
THE COURT:
That was your appointment?
A Yes.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Who was that black person you appointed, Mr. Mims?
A Marshall Robinson.
percentage of the patrons of the transit system. I mean, did
that occur to the commissioners when they were appointing?
A Sir, I can only speak to myself. I put one black and
one white out of the two. I don't know what else I could
have done.
Q I think we have talked about this the last time we
popesred in the Court together. One of the facets of the
City Commission is that you are only responsible for you and
not responsible for the others?
A I am responsible to the people of Mobile and I think
I have met those responsibilities quite well.
95.
| 0 And yet the black citizens of Mobile are the overwhelming
388.
i
1 +
0 By the way, concerning the transit authority, is it ; light at the
a fact that there are just aren't any bus routes that go north : A I tl}
and south between the north end of town and the south end of I think Mr.
town, you know, through Government Street? Don't they all have | 0 Mr.
ito go down to the foot of Royal Street and transfer there and A No.
go all the way back out again in one direction or the other? 0 Oka:
A | Well, the City of Mobile is so laid out to the core, looks like
that the central core is by the river and, over the years, the sixteen tot.
routes have all been designed to come into the central core. ins not any mor:
Now, studies have been made by the new operators of Li board?
the system and we have a professional operator who is helping i Is
the authority. They have some new route configurations kill; or s-
asimed. As far as them going right straight down from I ds
Prichard to Naveco, I doubt very seriously if that will ever be he board o
In this business I have found we have more expert traffic ole, becau
engineers and more expert civil engineers and more experts than “ awful lo
you can shake a stick at and everybody says why don't we have rhambers an
a bus to run from Trinity Gardens to Navco interchange. That # D Wha
oesn’s mean that people are going to ride just because eR Wel
somebody thinks that ought to be. This is like testimony Ei somebody th
piven here earlier today that a traffic light ought to be a: to all of t
At their corner, but it doesn’t mean it is necessarily justi- What goes o
fied. | ) Are-
es
R Who was that that said everybody wanted a traffic oy ynwilling t=
| © 389
a S18. 5 | 917
s it light at their corner?
> north ; A I think it was brought out earlier in the testimony,
=d of I think Mr. Doyle said so.
mll have | Q Mr. Doyle wanted it?
—e and A No. He didn't say he wanted one.
—her? $iRA | ¢ Okay. We have this board of adjustment, number one,
=ore, looks like it is -- we have one black out of a history of
—s, the sixteen total members. Do you know any reason why there were
—ore. si not any more blacks than that appointed to this particular |
3 of a board? |
=21lping k Is it a question of availability of some particular
i skill; or something of that sort?
mn 5 A I do not know the answer to that question. I do know
2ver be} the board of adjustments membership on that is not an easy
ic role, because these people, whether black or white, come under
—=ts than = Lh awful lot of pressure when you have a hundred people in the
= have He rhambers and fifty-four something and fifty against it.
That : N What has that got to do with my question?
A Well, it has a lot to do with the question. Getting
ny ri | omebody that wants to take that pressure and strain ahd listen
be rE o all of that static and any member of the press can tell you
Justi- be hat goes on in a board of adjustment meeting.
| Are you inferring that there have been black people
|
ic i pnwilling to take that pressure?
SHE RL TL Jan i
§
f
i
| :
A No. I didn't infer black or white. A lot of people
wouldn't take that pressure.
0 You are not saying that there are not qualified black
citizens in Mobile who were able to serve on the board of
adjustments? A No. We have one on there.
0 Te he the only qualified person?
A I did not say that. I have not implied that there wer
not qualified blacks.
0 What about this air conditioning board? This is the
board that screens applicants for licenses for people who want
to do air conditioning work?
p - As I understand it, yes.
Q As a matter of fact, there is a lot of air conditioninj
mechanic type courses in the local trade schools, isn't there?
HA So far as I know.
Jt
9) Southwest Technical State, Carver State, I think both
have courses, don't they? |
A I am not familiar with that.
R You are not saying that there are no black persons in
this community who are qualified to serve on that board, are
you?
In No. But we have not received recommendations from
these various agencies that make the recommendations.
Ww
W
39%
| -
Q 1
A W
know whet
Mr. Smith
Q A
serves on
A T
and we ap
Q Y
is that c
A I
ordinance
making th
MR. BLACK
I
marked, b
City indi
by a city
MR. AREND.
W!
research
MR. BLACK:
In
it shall |
El 919
——l-318.. #
ig Q The air conditioning contractors?
ople 4
i A When those recommendations come up to us, we don't
bl Yk #. ||know whether they are black or white. They recommend Mr. Jones,
ac $e.
£ "4 Mr. Smith or whoever.
‘4 Q And it is these private agencies that control on who
8 serves on the board?
f A They make their recommendations to the city commission
4 and we appoint them. |
re were &
§ Q You are powerless not to appoint their recommendations;
= is that correct?
the gt :
A I think these requirements are specified in the
0 want 3
A ordinance of the state's statute and these people are rightfully
: making these recommendations to us. :
§ [MR. BLACKSHER: |
tioning
I believe, your Honor, we could have this document
there? 3 |
& marked, but the information was turned over to us from the
3 |
both City indicates that the air conditioning board is established
by a city ordinance. Do you want to stipulate to that?
MR. ARENDALL:
1s in Whatever it shows, Jim. I have really done no
research on these things.
are
MR. BLACKSHER:
In fact, the air conditioning board ordinance says
om
4 it shall be composed of five members appointed by the City
pe GUUSESD | _ 92
SA By 1 Ls
any blacE
Commission. It shall consist of the following members; one
A =
air conditioning refrigeration mechanic, one business principal
: begin wit
of a registered air conditioning and heating firm; one
; because =
principal of a registered air conditioning and heating firm
bicentenr
that is primarily engaged in installing heating and air
would say
conditioning systems and residences and one independent
’ know, inv
practicing mechanical engineer, a registered engineer in the
! on the bi
State of Alabama, and one representative of the public.
adding ar
.So, it appears that no one makes recommendations to :
i |Iforty-six
that board. Does that come as a surprise to you? 3
City Hall
A No, it doesn't come as a surprise. We have forty-six
i bout twe
different boards and commissions here and I think it would be
nd grew
impossible for me to be familiar with every ordinance and
: give you.
state statute. I can say emphatically that no black person
D T
has ever come to me and said, "Mr. Mims, we would like some
wanted bl
representation on the air conditioning advisory board." I have
joining t
had no complaints in the eleven years that I have been in
A W
office. |
: ps much 1
Q Have white persons come to you and requested
in our In
representation on the air conditioning board?
thirty-fi
A No.
had seven
Q Now, this Mobile Bicentennial committee. Is there any)
citizens
reason why there are three out of forty-six members that are
nd enjoy
black? Are there any qualifications that you felt ruled out
_. 393
r 921
—e 1.920
any black citizens in substantial numbers to that board?
; one
A We appointed some blacks to this, ever how many to
principal
begin with, and then this committee kind of grew on us,
because a number of people expressed interest in the
firm
bicentennial celebration and, as a civic club, well, they
r
would say you ought to put Mr. Jones on here. He is, you
E
know, involved with the ROTC, or whatever, and he ought to be |
In the
on the bicentennial committee and the City Commission kept |
adding and adding and we wound up with whatever it says here, |
18 to |
|fforty-six members, but go back and research the records at |
City Hall and you will find out that we started off with
ty-six :
bout twelve members, three of which were black, and it grew
puld be
nd grew and grew and that is the only explanation I can :
ind |
: {
give you.
rson
|
D The explanation, as I understand it, being.they just |
some .
L wanted black groups like white groups expressed interest in
I hav
joining the committee, is that what you are saying?
in
A Well, yes, and also the blacks have not expressed
as much interest, as I would like to have seen them express,
In our Independence Day celebration. Every year out of
thirty-five thousand at Ladd Stadium I doubt seriously if we
had seven hundred blacks and it was a free program for all the
ere any |
citizens of Mobile and we have encouraged everyone to come
t are
pnd enjoy this program.
d out a
To __J94
Q | By the way, I attended the program and you say there
were seven hundred black people in the audience?
A This would be my estimation.
Q I guess you were counting the people sitting in the
end zone stands, mostly?
A No. I tried to look over it as I made a circle around
the field and on the stage and I just did not see many black
people present at that bicentennial or that Independence Day
celebration.
Q In point of fact, I didn't see any black entertainers
and I thought that was regretable,
THE COURT:
Well, you ask questions and don't get into an
argument,
MR. BLACKSHER:
Were there any black people, entertainers, besides
the black people in the marching band?
A No.
Q We have the item seven, which is the center city
development authority which is, as my notes say, is suppose
to rejuvenate or help rejuvenate the inner city out to the
Loop; is that correct?
THE COURT:
Let's don't get into another subject here. We will
A
that pa:
they us
or spec:
Q.
A
in the (
Q
controll
A
Q
have on
A
executivy
but we v
So, that
three co
Q
opposed
A
Q
A :
0 \
A 1
335
: 926
Reta 1. 4 1
habe A Its basis of funding is from the member governments
that participate and contribute on a per capita basis and
they use that funding to match certain federal and/or state
the or special agency programs.
Q What agencies in Mobile County participate?
around A I am not sure, but I think all of the municipalities
sank in the County government are members.
» Day Q Is the South Alabama Regional Planning Commission |
controlled by the Mobile City Commission?
Ror s A No, sir.
Q To what degree does the Mobile City Commission input
have on any influence on its operation?
A Only as voting members. We are members of the
executive committee and various aspects of the organization,
but we vote -- their voting is on a per capita formula basis.
a5 So, that whatever our proportion of our population is to the
i three county area, that is what our voting is.
4 Q Now, Mr. Greenough, in your 1973 election, you were
opposed by a Mr. Bailey, you were not? |
Bsa A Yes, sir. .
he Q Were there any other candidates in that election?
A Yes. There were two others.
0 Who were they?
411 A Mr. Bridges, Earl Bridges, and Mr. Ollie Lee Taylor.
El 336 !
>
Q
A
Q
A
through
Q
A
0
percent
A i
i
!
&
i
i
it
a |
A
Q
Mr, Ollie Lee Taylor was black?
Yes, sir.
How did the first election come out?
Mr. Bailey and I were in the runoff.
Who was ahead?
I think Mr. Bailey was.
Did you make any efforts to get black support in the
original election?
I did from the outset of my campaign and all the way
the runoff.
Is it fair to say then thit you were not concerned
about being tagged with the black vote?
1 was looking for every vote I could get.
Bailey actually got some forty-eight point one
of the vote in the original election, did he not?
Yes, sir.
And you were the decided underdog at that stage?
I think everybody had that opinion, yes.
Did you go back to the black community and seek their
active support in the runoff?
Yes, sir. 1 did.
Were you successful?
I think the statistics would reveal that, yes.
Do you believe that the black vote or the vote of blac ks
IS Cnt
Jar
in the b
A :
thold all
1]
|
but I th:
Ithink tha
|
i
iprocess,
iprobably
{
IQ
i
'substant-
than you
sometimes
in suppor
Q C
A 12
many othe
member of
public s1=
whom I has
others.
: Jat
97
in the black areas constituted the swing vote in that election?
a That is awfully hard to answer. I presume, if you
thold all other votes in isolation, the answer would be yes,
|
I
but I think this is a rather static way to look at it. I
| think there is much more dynamics involved in the election
f
process, but actually I would have to say that generally,
iprobably, yes.
[In the ; H
1 In any event, you did, in the runoff, secure a
i
substantially larger percentage of votes in the black areas
ne way
a
hr
po
HE
than you did in the initial race, did you not?
A To my recollection, yes.
ried
Q Did you have any assistance from leaders of the black
community in connection with that campaign?
A Fortunately, yes. |
Ee Well, I should say the younger element that has
ot? 4 sometimes been described as the young turks, tended to be :
in support of my candidacy.
e2 Q Could you identify some of these?
A Well, there are some well known names and there are
k their
many others not well known, probably, but one who is now a
EB member of the Alabama House, Gary Cooper, was a very strong
| 4 public supporter of mine. Milton Joiner, a young man with
whom I had gone to the University of South Alabama, and many
others.
. of blacks
EE I | | 398
and I think Mr. Mims has discussed the representation or
lack of it of the City of Mobile on the supervisory
commission. I have neglected or did neglect to ask him, but
is there currently pending some effort to get that changed
by legislation?
A Yes, sir. Representative Gary Cooper has introduced
a bill which would accomplish several things. I am not
intimately familiar with it, except the essence of it is
to allow for a broadened base of representation on the board,
itself, as well as the board selection procedures and, thus,
I guess the supervisory committee.
I think that I would have to say, to my recollection,
I did publicly and I think my two fellow commissioners
both herald this as a positive step in the right direction,
although I don't think any one of the three of us saw this
as the ultimate cure and, again, I say I think representative
Cooper realizes these sorts of things must be taken one step
at a time. :
0 Mr. Seales testified about the absence of a park in
the Texas Street urban renewal area and that is under your
jurisdiction.
Can you tell us briefly about that?
A Yes, sir. With the proper difference to our present
company, the delay in that whole program is traceable to the
399
L
as follow
THE COURT
A
cross of
BY MR. BL
0 Me
Exhibit 6=
P=
A :
Q A city deve
of author
city out
duced
.8
board,
thus,
resent
go the
of =
oe
¥
i
vo
3 i,
et
5
>
ax
Ad | ">
MORNING SESSION
0 o'clock, | July 20, 1976 9:0
i A.M.
THE COURT:
I
All right. Is Mr. Mims back?
. MR. ARENDALL:
Yes, sir.
LAMBERT C. MIMS
as follows:
THE COURT:
All right. Gentlemen, you may continue with the
cross of Commissioner Mims.
CONTINUED CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. BLACKSHER:
0 Mr. Mims, I direct your attention to Plaintiff's
Exhibit 64, again.
Do you have it in front of you?
A Yes. :
Q And in particular, to committee number 7, center
of authority that is designed to help rejuvenate the inner
city out to the Loop.
the witness, resumed the stand and testified further,
city development authority, and I understand that is some sort
400. |
|
|
|
Would you be more explicit about what that authority
does?
A Well, this is a new authority that has been created
in recent months and the idea is to preserve what would be
called the older section of Mobile to make sure that it doesn|t
deteriorate and that it is restored and refurbished and
rejuventated, so to speak.
0) You mean the older residential section or the older
business section?
A Both.
Q "The city has only one appointment to that committee
or to that authority?
A No. This is in error as we brought out earlier.
There are several persons on this authority, including the
City Commissioners and if I am not mistaken the mayor, whoever
serves as mayor at the time, is the chairman of this
authority and it includes people who are connected with the
downtown Mobile Unlimited program, as well as other business-
men and property owners in the area.
Are there any Q Businessmen and property owners.
blacks on that authority and, if so, why not?
A There are no blacks.
Q | I asked why not?
A I could not answer that.
942
401
OH
e
B
Sa
E
O
E
e
A
Ja
de
)
goi
n
4
5
Q Tt
correct?
THE COURT:
1f
five was t
|
A I
THE COURT:
Ar
A If
mayor is c
Yc
are on the
|THE COURT:
Al
“IMR. ARENDA
If
of that cc
THE COURT -
Ye
MR. ARENDA
Th
dated Marc
date of th
James Van
- | | 943
| 862
ority Q They are appointed by the City Commission; is that
correct?
mted THE COURT: |
be If I recall correctly, your testimony yesterday was
doesn it five was the number including yourselves on that?
a I believe that's right, your Honor .
THE COURT:
lder Are there any other commissioners on that?
A If I am not mistaken the commissioner serving as
mayor is on there.
tee Your Honor, I am not sure if the other two cottiishionges
are on there or not. |
THE COURT:
the All right.
whoevexy 4 MR. ARENDALL:
If your Honor please, I have here a list of the members
the of that committee. Would you like that?
iness- THE COURT:
Yes.
MR. ARENDALL:
k This is dated March 25th -- no. The ordinance was
] dated March 25th, 1975. I am not sure as to the precise
} date of these, but members are all three commissioners, Mr.
James Van Adltneth. Jr., vice chairman of the committee;
: 4021
Mr. Ken L. Lott, who 18 an officer of the Merchants Bank;
Mr. Don Henry, and I don't know what he is. Mr. H. J.
Goubil, who is with Title Insurance Company.
THE COURT:
How do you spell that last name?
MR. ARENDALL:
G-o-u-b-i-1l.
THE COURT:
| Well, that gives seven, then, instead of five; three
commissioners and four businessmen.
MR, ARENDALL:
Yes. I understand, Judge, from Mr. Greenough, he
had something to do with the appointment of this and he can
testify about ‘it perhaps and knows more about it than
Mr. Mims does.
|
THE COURT:
« All right,
MR. BLACKSHER:
Mr. Mims, you are not suggesting, are you, that there
are no black businessmen or property owners who are not
interested in downtown liobile?
A Absolutely not.
Q By the way, is there a similar authority or committee
that has, as its purpose, the rejuvenation of the black
403
busin:
A
area
excep!
recom
nk;
three
can
there
mittee
bissiness districts of Mobile?
A This particular authority is interested in the entire ares from the water front to Government Street Loop, without
+ exception to race or color.
0 Yes, sir. I am speaking about the area from Broad
Street out Davis Avenue, north of the Prichard City limits,
which is where the black busines§ district is, traditionally.
A There is no authority set up with the responsibility
for that specific purpose, no.
Q Can you direct your attention to number nine, board
of electrical examiners which there have been nn blacks out |
of a total of seven members, over the years, and I believe
you said that various contractors, the IBEW, Alabama Power |
Company nominate people for this board? |
A It is my understanding that people who are posoeiated!
) |
with the electrical profession, for lack of a better word, ath
|
|
the ones who are appointed to this electrical examining
board.
Q Once again, I want to make sure that the record is
clear that the City is not bound by ordinance or otherwise
to accept the recommendation of these private agencies,
is it?
A I would not think so. However, we abide by the
recommendations of these various groups.
464
Q Whoever they recommend, you as a formality, go ahead
and approve?
A Normally that is the procedure.
Q You are not suggesting either, are you, that there
are no black qualified electricians in the City of Mobile?
A No, sir. We have a very fine electrician working
for the City. In fact, he is head of the electrical
inspection department.
Q Item ten, citizens advisory group for the mass transit
technical study, which shows that three of the eight members
are black.
Isn't it true, Mr. Mims, that the federal government,
in an attempt to meet the Title six requirements, expressly
required the City to appoint the divas blacks to that
committee?
A I do not have knolwedge of that requirement.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Would you mark this, Mr. O'Connor. !
(Plaintiff's Exhibit 103 received and
marked, for identification.)
MR. BLACKSHER:
This 103 will be two documents. Actually, one is
the list showing the members of this committee, citizens
advisory group for mass transit technical study, and attached 405:
= a
Be
S
A
I
N
vs
S
d
bottor
Alabar
of the
appoin
two mi
eight
person
opinion
ahead
ere
le?
ng
transit
nbers
ment,
3sly
ached
F
R
A
W
A
T
E
R
0s
5
LER
!
!
|
{
to it is a letter to Mayor Greenough from the South Alabama
Regional Planning Commission dated January 20, 1975.
THE COURT:
What is the number of that, please?
MR. BLACKSHER:
103. Look at the list that I referred to at the
bottom of the first page and you will see where the South
Alabama Regional Planning Commission, pursuant to Title 6
of the Civil Rights Act, is recommending that people be
appointed. I believe there are two non-minority female,
two minority female and the same for males, right?
A This is correct.
Q In point of fact there appear to be only three blacks]
as one of the other eight committee members, a minority od
other than a black to act for the four that the Federal
government asked be appointed?
A Are you asking if they are a minority?
Q Yes, sir. I am asking if one of the remainding
eight members other than the three blacks is a minority
person? \
A I imagine you could call Mr. Briskman a minority.’
He is a jew. Mr. Zoghby is a Syrian.
Q One of those would classify as a minority, in your
opinion?
947
- 406
ERA
| 94 heii
A I would think so.
Q Let's talk a little bit about the item eleven, the on the
citizens advisory committee on the Donald Street freeway in locate
which eleven of fifteen members are or were black. A
Do I understand you to say it is defunct, now? \ lookec
A I think perhaps it has already served its purpose i Some E
to try to establish this corridor through this area of the | where
city. 0
0 . Why were there so many blacks on this particular did yc
committee, Mr. Mims? A
A = 1 my memory serves me correctly, one of the require- recall
ments by the federal highway administration and others was my. apt
that there be people from the area that is being affected 0
and, of course, this road was going out Congress and Donald on thi
Streets through Toulminville and my answer would be it went : A
through this area where many of these people lived. Q
Sh It is a predominantly black residential area? A
A I would say so, yes. for th
THE COURT: they b
What number was that? meetin
A Number eleven. Q
THE COURT: commit
Okay. A
MR. BLACKSHER: come.
~A07 gi
f
|
|
|
A According to Mr. Joiner, who was our liasion..........
1Q Milton Joiner? |
A Earl Joiner, public works engineer, served as liasion
for the City Commission. According to Mr. Joiner sometimes
; some people who were interested or would be interested in
949
How did you locate the black people that served
on that committee, Mr. Mims? How did the commissioners
locate them?
A If I recall the particular meeting, we sat down and
looked at the area that was being affected and tried to get
where the road went.
|
0 Yes, sir. I understand that. My question is, how
did you get the people? |
A Well, sir, I look at a list of people and try to
recall who lives in what ward and what area of town and make
my appointments.
Q Did you have any difficulty in getting people to serve
on this committee?
they had very high attendance of people who attended the
meetings. :
Q No, sir. I asked about getting people to serve on the
committee?
A I thought we were talking about serving. Persons don’
come to the meeting they are not serving.
408:
THE COURT:
The thrust of his question is in finding people to
make the appointments?
A Your Honor, I don't recall that specific point.
MR. BLACKSHER:
All right, sir. I next direct your attention to
number twelve. I think I have not moved the introduction
of Exhibit 103 and I so move.
THE COURT:
Let it in.
(Plaintiff's Exhibit number 103 received
and marked, in evidence)
MR. BLACKSHER:
Item number twelve, the codes advisory committee tard
there have been no blacks.
| Why is that, Mr. Mims?
| ‘ I could not answer that.
Q Architects, structural engineer, mechanical engineer,
electrical engineer, member of the building trades, a
general contractor, home builders, real estate -- this is a
body that passes on what building codes will be adopted and
ntaiced by the City of Mobile; is that correct?
A This is correct.
THE COURT:
409
MR. BI
THE CC
MR. BI
’ 951
Cran 0G. 11 :
Does that imclude residences?
£5 | A All buildings, sir.
| THE COURT:
All right.
. BLACKSHER:
5 | In point of fact, Mr. Mims, not all or very few of |
i the people on this list, and I have that list before me, |
a very few of them are actually recommended by an outside :
agency; isn't that correct, or do you krov? |
A I do not have the list before me. |
MR. BLACKSHER: |
I think we will introduce this into evidence, your
Honor. This is the list and the ordinance that creates this |
whera particular committee. Perhaps 18 witlve useful to have all |
| of these in the record. ; :
| (Plaintiff's Exhibit number 104 received
and marked, in evidence.)
eer, | MR. BLACKSHER:
| I will go on to the next one, your Honor.
4 | I move the introduction of 104. .
id | THE COURT:
It is admitted. Go ahead.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Item thirteen is the commission on progress.
410 +
As I understand it, that is a committee that you
personally had some responsibility in forming?
A This commission was in existence when I assumed office
in 1965. It was called a bi-racial committee. It was at my
suggestion, after the racial strife of the sixties and we
moved on to trying to make progress in other areas, that we
changed the name to commission on progress, because the
group was considering matters other than race related matters
and matters that dealt with things other than race, but I have
had close association with this committee or this commission
over the years that I have been in office and this committee
has done a good work fer the people of Mobile.
Q There was a conscious effort to insure there were a
repetitive number of black people on this committee, I take
it?
A Yes. It was established as a bi-racial committee
from, the very beginning.
Q What was some of the other areas that this committee
got into that caused you to change its name?
A Well, economic -- in the area of economics. In other
words, trying to obtain jobs for people and see that every
one could get a good job in Mobile. We have put forth every
effort down through the years.
This committee has also discussed problems as they
411 °
reeset emm—_-E
: 953
related to police in public works and other functions of
you
city government. So, at their meetings, many many different
matters have been discussed, parks and playgrounds and
ed office
public work matters and police matters and general govermmental
18 at my 4
4 services, all of these things have been discussed by this
d we
committee.
hat we
. Q It sounds like it was duplicating the function of
he
| a number of other bodies that we have been talking about?
. matters i |
A Well, I am sure there would be some overlapping in
ut I have
a number of areas.
mission
Q The important thing is that it had a bi-racial
mmittee
composition, as I understand it, that was intended to create
a sign of unity in the community on these issues?
were a :
A I think it did create unity and created much more
I take
unity than maybe it was given credit for having created.
Q You nevertheless thought the term bi-racial committee
ttee
was not an adviseable thing to have during the last part of
the sixties?
mmittee
A During the late sixties it was known as a bi-racial
| committee and then, at some point in time and I could not
In other
| tell you when the name was changed, but it was, at my
every
recommendation, and I made a newsrelease on it and it is
h every : :
all a matter of record. We did recommend to change the name
because it was dealing with matters other than purely race
fey 412:
954
related matters.
Q Have you had any trouble finding black people to
serve on this committee, Mr. Mims?
A We, as far as I know, have been able to get people
to serve, not every one has one hundred percent-attendance.
It is spasmodic, as far as attendance is concerned, on both
the black side and the white side.
Q Okay. I next direct your attention to iten fourteen,
the educational building authority.
As I understand it, this was some sort of authority
established to enable city bonds to be sold to finance
capital improvements on some aducational facilities; is that
correct?
A So far as I know. You will have to refresh my
memory with some of these authorities, if you don't mind.
Q You don't happen to know which educational facllitied
received the benefit of these bonds, do you?
A On this particular authority I could not tell you,
to save my soul.
Q It wasn't the Mobile County Board of school commissid
the public school system, was it?
A I do not know.
Q Could it have been some private schools?
A I just said I do not know, counsel,
ners, 413
mistal
THE C(
3: i 955
A Q Who would know, Mr. Mims?
he
3 A Well, I assume that Mr. Arendall has the file with
to we g
4 the functions of these various authorities. I am sorry,
5
& your Honor, I didn't bring all of this up here with me and
eople a
& I hope the Court will understand that I can't remember all
dance. $e
ig of this.
n both he 3 :
w As we indicated yesterday, we set these authorities
& up and they serve as a vehicle for financing and we have
ourteen, ®
very little to do with it once the group comes to us and
asks us to form this committee or this authority. They go
hority : :
on with the function and provide the buildings for public
p
use. So, I really -- I have been too concerned with drainage....
Is that : 12
MR. ARENDALL:
If your Honor please, we have furnished to ‘the
y :
plaintiffs a list of the membership of each of these‘'various
Ind.
| commissions and boards and indications of by whom they were
~ilities
! appointed or recommended and the copy of the ordinance under
which they serve. I see, as to this particular one -- and
you, .
I don't know this adds anything or will trigger anything
in Mr. Mims's mind, but this says it was the.,application of
>mmissigners,
Messrs. C. T. Cartee and Guy W. Reynolds and so forth.
A I remember a Dr. Thomas, a lady, if I am not
mistaken.
THE COURT:
eee st 414: '
| :
k sib vine i a ti ol
Does that trigger what they came to you for in the
purpose of the authority?
A They came to be able to raise funds to promote an
educational facility.
THE COURT:
Was it a private school?
MR. ARENDALL:
Was it a private school?
A . I know Dr, Thomas is associated with a private school
So help me, I do not know what the ordinance says.
MR. ARENDALL:
It doesn't identify the school location or anything.
What is the name of the private school that Dr. Thomas is
associated with, Mr. Mims?
A: It is my understanding that the school is located
on Government Street.
THE, COURT:
Do you know the name of it?
A No, sir.
MR. ARENDALL: :
Whereabouts on Government Street?
A The school is located across from Constantines
Restaurant.
MR_. BLACKSHER:
415
956
5
=
A
exerc
MR. B
not?
A
Q
there
A
exerc
Q
publi
doesn
A
Q
Mr. L
A
progr
MR. A
MR. FB
2» the
» gchool.
rthing.
ted
| 956
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a
957
A
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A
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a
Te
a
x
oped
i
N
i
Gulf Coast Academy?
A That is correct. I spoke at their graduation
exercise not long ago and I could not remember the name.
MR. BLACKSHER:
That academy has an all white enrollment, does it
not?
A I could not testify to that fact.
Q Did you see any blacks in attendance when you spoke
there?
A I don't recall any blacks being at the graduation
exercise.
Q Okay. The next one is item fifteen, Mobile area
public higher education foundation,
This has to do with the University of South Alabama,
doesn't it?
A I do not have the record in front of me.
Q Mr. Cleverdon is on the committee, Mr. Herron,
Mr. Little and Mr. Crowe.
A That sounds like the University of South Alabama
program. .
MR. ARENDALL:
And Mr. Langan.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Right. Mr. Langan, Mr. Smith and others. I won't
4165
read this into the record.
Is there any particular reason why there were no
blacks, to your knowledge, appointed to this particular
committee?
A No. TI do not know that. I think perhaps that was
set up before my time at City Hall.
Q : Well, yes. It was set up, apparently, in June of
1962. The appointments ranged though from -- well, except
for one year in 1962, they ranged from 1970 up to 1976.
A Well, normally......
MR. ARENDALL:
May I call your attention that according to this
apparently the only appointment has come up on this board
since Mr. Mims-came up on the commlsaton was Mr. Joe Langan’
original appointment must have expired and he was re-appoint
on September 30, 1974, and that is the only appointment the
City Commission has had since that time.
THE COURT:
The city has one appointment to that board?
MR. BLACKSHER:
I will put this in evidence. It indicates to me the
original appointments were 10/1/70 and others in '70, '72
and one in '74.
MR. ARENDALL:
4
MR. BL
THE COI
THE CO\
appoint
THE COIl
MR. BL!
417
i IIR
was
of
cept
is
ard
sl
point
> the
E
T
L
I beg your pardon. I see they were originally
appointed in 1970. TI apologize to you. I misread it.
THE COURT:
Who are the other appoluting authorities?
MR. BLACKSHER:
Do you know, Mr. Mims?
A I am sorry. It does say on the list.
MR. BLACKSHER:
There are sbme county appointments.
THE COURT:
How many?
MR. BLACKSHER:
Five.
THE COURT:
County appointments?
MR. BLACKSHER:
Yes, sir. And there are some school board
appointments numbering six.
THE COURT:
That is the county school board? R
MR. BLACKSHER:
That's all we have.
MR. ARENDALL:
Jim, it could be that the Cleverdon was also a county!
318”
- 960
appointment. Apparently, the city has six and the school
blacks
board has six -- that is, the county has six.
A
THE COURT:
3 ; interes
So there are ten members rather than six members of
: make co
that board.
raise f
MR. BLACKSHER: |
| improve
More than that, your Honor.
: in the
MR. ARENDALL:
from th
It would be at least six and six is twelve and six
Q
more would be eighteen.
communi
THE COURT: : .
A
Okay.
: Q
MR. ARENDALL:
sevente
Assuming that Mr. Cleverdon was appointed by somebody
and he is on it.
three C
MR. BLACKSHER:
is that
’ We offer this. .
f (Plaintiff's Exhibit number 105 received 2
| and marked, in evidence.)
k area?
MR. BLACKSHER:
5 A
Next I will direct your attention to number sixteen,
: area.
fine arts museum of the south at Mobile, which indicates there 3
have been two blacks out of a total of forty-one members over
; : there?
4 the years.
b TH 9
£
-— >
4
»]
zs of
six
xebody
een,
; ther
961
Do you know why there have not been any more
blacks than that on this commission?
A As we indicated previously, normally peosta who are
interested in arts are appointed to this board, people who
make contributions and go out in the community and try to
raise funds that would help operate it and make capital improvements. People who express a great deal of interest
in the arts have been appointed and recommendations have come
from the various groups.
Q There are a substantial number of blacks in this
community who are interested in the arts, aren't there?
A I am sure there must be. |
Q Fort Conde plaza development authority, number
seventeen. There have been no blacks on that committee. |
I believe your testimony was that it consisted of |
three City Commissioners and property owners from t hat area;
is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Are there no black property owners in the Fort Conde
area? :
A I have no knowledge of any blacks owning land in ‘thst
area.
Q There are some black theidenrs of that area, aren't
there?
450 |
A Absolutely not. No residents at all in that area,
at this point.
THE COURT:
He means the immediate adjoining area.
A Well, your Honor, this authority has to do with
the property located within the interchange.
THE COURT:
Well, limit ours to that area.
A . Well, that was what I was talking about. No, sir.
Not that I know of.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Eighteen is the Mobile Historical Development
Commission of which there have been a total of one hundred
and thirteen members over the years. None of whom are black.
Can you explain that, Mr. Mims?
A Only that we indicated yesterday that we received
recommendations from the various agencies that concerned
themselves with historic preservation and development and
we accept these recommendations as they come to us. Normally
they will give us, number one and number two, and we normally
select the number one recommendation on the list.
n Well, this would certainly indicate that there aren't
any blacks who are interested in the historical development
of Mobile. You don't think that is true, do you?
r
321 -
A
heard fr
Q
basinks
by the S
excuse m
this par
basic va
from the
settling
ise the
had sett
were in
pr thodox
living h
The few
Jatin va
ppproxim
}ndtan o:
on the v.
Poreni snl
developm
rea,
sir.
»rmally
is
Hd [Were in strong contrast to the educated, conservative and
\
963
A All I can do is speak from experience. I haven't
heard from too many who were interested in it.
9) I am reading now, Mr. Mims, from Exhibit 76, Plaintiffs
Exhibit 76, which is this neighborhoods of Mobile published
by the South Alabama Regional -- City Planning Commission,
excuse me, page three. Says the essential -- the topic of
this paragraph, "People, values and a swelling tone".
"The essential population characteristics and broadly
basic values of today existed at this latter time. Migrants |
from the eastern seaboard, scotch, irish, and english, were
: [settling as farmers in northern Alabama and were the first to
|
ise the Tombigbee and Alabama rivers for transportation. Many
had settled in Mobile; their uneducated, rough and tumble way.
|
prthodox habits of the former New England traders and merchant
living here. Yet, eventually there was merger of divergence.
w
i
r
e
s
rhe few remaining french and spanish families contributed
Jatin values to those of the two major groups. Although
approximately one-third of the population at this time was
indian or negro, these two minorities had little direct effect
bn the value structure found in the city."
So, according to this report of Mobile Planning
Comission, negroes have had little to do with the historic
evelopment?
Ta LER dc’
A They have had little to do with it.
n " Would you agree with the statement?
THE COURT:
I believe the statement is little effect.
MR. BLACKSHER:
I think you are right, your Honor.
THE COURT:
I just listened to what you said.
IMR. BLACKSHER:
It says they have had little effect on the value tructure found in the city. Would you agrée with that?
Well, that is a document of the City of Mobile and I
upport the document.
0} Okay. I next direct your attention to number nineteen,
he Independence Day celebration committee.
Is that the committee that plans the fair at Ladd
tadium ort the 4th of July?
This is correct.
* I see it has only one black person out of fourteen
embers. Can you explain that?
Well, I can't explain the ratio, one to fourteen, but
I didn't understand your answer.
J} can say that all fourteen of these are not active.
I said I could not explain the ratio of one to
423
fourteen.
been acti
mistaken
evidence.
¢
MR. BLACE
>
black mem
C
you saw a
lat that e
A =
I don't t
R C
recently
band and
floats we
A rT
who gave
- : 965
fourteen. However, I could say that all fourteen have not
been active. The black member has been activer If I am not
mistaken it is Mr. Leroy Davis, a very fine businessman..
Q And he was appointed by you, in fact?
A I think that's right.
0 I think I will introduce this list of members into
evidence. For the record it shows who appointed them and when,
(Plaintiff's Exhibit number 106 received
and marked, in evidence)
MR. BLACKSHER:
Mr. Doyles and Mr. Greenough have not appointed any
black members to that commission.
1-1
Do you suppose that might have anything to do with whv
you saw a smaller turn out than you expected of black people
pteen A ’ $0 lat that event?
A No. I don't think that has anything to do with it.
ih I don't think the membership on the committee has a thing
in the world to do with the number of people who turned out.
R Could we talk about the event that we all witnessed here
recently just a second? Now, it started out with a marching
band and then there were some floats that came out. Among those
but floats were there any blacks riding those floats?
A I think there was a black lady on one of the floats
.
who gave the pledge to the flag.
A — - Sr ——— i ——————————— x | | TARE
- lat 966
question.
Q You are absolutely correctr She was the only black
Q T
person on the platform, as I recall,
a very fi
A ~ Well, that might be true, but I call your attention to
; style of
the previous years when we had black ministers on the platform
culture,
and on a number of occasions have had black people on the
A I
platform. This year, maybe one was on the platform, but that
| christian
|has not been the case every year. I know the first year we
| : ill feeli
had it we had the bishop, I think it was a black man from
be a fact
New Orleans, came here and gave the invocation and other
Q I
blacks have been on it, too. I think Bishop Smith has been
tired of
on it and other blacks in years passed. I am.sure the
to that e
committee, when they were ........
A W
Q Well, what happened this year? There was a
| Q A
conspicuous absence of blacks on that field this year and
Brass.
'I wondered what happened.
I A A
iA Well, I am not a member of that planning committee. ;
| |
iQ Ww
Mr. locket is chairman of that committee and they have worked
y one rousi
extremely hard to put on a good show for all of the people
A w
lof Mobile every year and we run ads in the Beacon and run
: major sta
ads in the Mobile Press Register and we encourage people
Q A
land I have been on the radio time and time again on all
|
A . W
'stations encouraging people to come to the Independence Day
stand, bu
celebration. We can't make people come to the stadium to ;
to be fra
celebrate the birthday of our nation. I can't answer. ‘that
at
er
t
i iin 967
question.
Q The two principle entertainers were Mr. Jerry Clower,
a very fine comedian. I think you would have to adfite that hip
style of humour was not ethnicly aligned with the black :
culture, would you?
A I didn't look at it that way. Mr. Clower is a fine
christian man and I know he doesn't have any animosity or
|
F i
|
ill feelings toward any race or nationality. I think that to ;
be a fact. |
Q In point of fact, he made one joke of how he was
tired of shiftless people who weren't working or something
to that effect.
A Well, of course, if the shoe fits you have to wear it.
Q And the second major entertainer was the Nashville
A A very fine group of entertainers, yes.
"ad lq Who played a number of excellent songs, including
one rousing rendition of Dixie, as I recall.
A Well, that is correct and I was amazed that a black
major standing right in front of me stood up.
Q Along with everybody else, at that point?
A Well, if you were watching me, I was reluctant to
stand, but I am an American and I believe in our country and, to be frank with you, I am a little reluctant to stand to
426
a
w
—
; : 968
anything other than to Amazing Grace and the Star
Spangled Banner. .
Q I appreciate that, Mr. Mims. Let's move on to the
next one. ~ The industrial development board is number twenty
and there have been no blacks out of a total of fifteen
members. The industrial development board, the ordinance
does not tell us what use is going to be made of the monies,
the capital monies, that will be raised through these municipal
bonds. I take it that is what it was for, wasn't it?
A The industrial development board is a vehicle whereby
industries can obtain funds to expand or develop new industries
that create jobs and, over the years, many nendeads and even
thousands of jobs have been created because of this board's
involvement and because it can be used to obtain the funds
for industrial development and, of course, we have blacks and whites in all segments of the community working at these
|
industries that have been provided because of this industrial
development board.
| businesss
0 According to the list here, every one of the members
cular boa
has been recommended by the Mobile Chamber of Commerce?
A :
A I am sure this is correct.
Q F
0 And to get back to my last question, which really
Mobile tH
wasn't answered. Can you tell me some of the plants, factoriep
: A G
or businesses that have benefited from these bonds?
— board anc
427
nty
Pet
e
0 fe
o
Po
Fi
pial
ner S
969
A Well, a number of them. I think both of the paper
mills have benefited from these bonds, the new paint company
going in down at the Theodore Industrial Complex. I don't
have the list, but a number of firms have benefited and the
community has benefited.
Q Smith's Bakery?
A It is my understanding that Smith's Bakery used
industrial development bonds, yes.
Q And Coca-Cola Company, Delchamps?
A Well, there are a number of them and all of them mean
an awfully lot to this community. They have big payrolls.
MR. BLACKSHER:
We offer this.
(Plaintiff's Exhibit number 107 received
and marked, in evidence)
MR. BLACKSHER:
Wouldn't you think there were a number of black
businessmen that would be interested in serving on that parti-
cular board?
A I do not know. '
Q Do you have any boards or committees for the City of
Mobile that provide development bonds for minority enterprises?
A Well, anyone has an opportunity to come before this
board and seek funds or seek a bond program that would generate
428:
970
funds without regard to race. So, I would suggest that
minority groups or anyone else who would be interested would
come before this board.
Q De. $6i know whether or not any minority groups have,
in fact, used it?
A I do not know.
Q I am going to skip over a number of these and try to
make these move along a little faster, Mr. Mims, unless there
is something you would like to say about any of them.
You said, at this point in your direct testimony, that
the City Commission has little to do with these boards after
the members are appointed; is that correct?
A These boards that are set up on these authorities that
are set up for strictly financing, we have very little to do
with it. Now, I am not saying that we have very little to
do with all of these boards, because you skipped over one of
the mést important ones.
0 The Housing Board? |
A That's right. A very important board and we do make appointments to this board and we do have close relationships
with this board.
W finance a lot of projects. The city of Mobile has
expended millions upon millions of dollars of urban renewal
funds that have cleaned out slums and provided better housing
429,
2
been bu:
have als:
correct’
A
sections
THE COUF
MR. BLAC
Commissi
function
A -
ould
ave,
y to
here
970
for our people.
0 You will admit that the majority of the clientale
for the public housing board are black?
A This is correct.
Q And concerning the public housing projects that have
been built by the City of Mobile it is also a fact that they
have also been located in black neighborhoods; isn't that
correct?
A Well, they are located in predominantly the older
sections of the city, because this is ........
THE COURT: |
Well, are they predominantly black?
A Your Honor... coves
. [THE court:
I am speaking of where the work was taking place.
A Well, yes. I would say so.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Back to my point about the involvement, of the City
Commissioners once these boards are appointed.
Was it my understanding that they pretty much
functioned on their own once they are set up?
A Well, this is true and, as I testified earlier, I
450°
972
appoint people to these committees and boards that I have
confidence in and I don't pull strings.
puppets on the string for Lambert Mims when I appoint them.
We depend upon these people to run these operations.
Now, that doesn't mean we don't have close communication or
close association with these people. We have one of our
own City Commissioners serving on the water and sewer board.
Well, certainly we discussed water and sewer board
problems and we have these people serving on the housing
board and we discuss problems as they relate to the
community.
THE COURT:
Now,
them rather are established for a specific purpose and, after
that purpose is accomplished, some of them become dormant.
I am not sure about the Mobile Housing Board.
members salaried members who function day to day or is this
an advisory board that just advises the Mobile Housing
Board?
A Your Honor, the Mobile Housing Board is more than an
advisory board.
THE COURT:
First, is it a full time job?
A No.
it seems most of these boards are ~-- many of
These businessmen are appointed.
/ /
It is an operating board.
They are not
Are these
431:
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A
instruc
a full
THE COU:
contact
the mem"
set the
them ou-
commiss
MR. BLA=-
972
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at.
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973
THE COURT:
These are advisory people to whom?
A No, sir. These men serve as a board and they give
instructions to the director, the executive director, who is
a full time man and he has a staff.
THE COURT:
That is what I wanted to know.
A But this is a very responsible group of people and
they handle millions of not only local, but federal monies.
THE COURT:
About how often does the board meet?
A I think it meets twice monthly, your Honor, and
then on call as needed.
THE COURT:
Some function -- I realize the comparison is not
exact, but something like a board of directors of a business
institution?
A This is correct. If I might add, we have more
contact with the executive director than we do actually with
the members of the board, because the members of the board
set the policies and the executive director then has to carry
them out and he communicates quite frequently with all three
commissioners and with the board of commissioners.
MR. BLACKSHER:
= 43317
i
|
ped
That is Mr. Jimmy Alexander?
A That is correct.
Q Who, for the record, is white?
A White color or named white?
0] Race.
A Well, Mr. Gray is a black man on the board. The wise
MAN. «+o ss
THE COURT:
Well, all right. We are going through them and I
would like to know something of their -- not a lot, but is
he a business man or social worker or government employee,
or what?
A No, sir. Wholesale supplies of some kind, flooring
IA All right. Let me take them one at a time, your
|
Honor. Mr. Gray is a black man on the board and he is with
five Mobile County Public School system and, if I am not
|
mistaken, he is an assistant principal at Shaw High School.
| |
THE COURT:
All right.
A Mr. Norman Cox is the president of the Patterson
Company.
THE COURT:
Is that a lumber company?
hnd things such as this.
433. ..
THE COURT:
Al
A An
Mobile Rug
THE COURT:
Al
A Th
or superin
THE COURT:
Al
A An
THE COURT:
Al
MR. BLACKS
Yo
Mr. Mims he
E COURT:
Al
(P
a
MR. BLACKS
By
by either
ied
978
THE COURT:
All right.
A And then Mr. David Frielander who is president of
Mobile Rug and Shade Company.
THE COURT:
All right.
A Then there is Mr. Howard Adair who is the supervisor
THE COURT:
All right.
A And then there is a Mr. Gary Ellis who is the owner
pf a drugstore and he is a pharmacist.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Your Honor, I am introducing, as 108, the list that
Mr. Mims has just gone through.
E COURT:
All right.
(Plaintiff's Exhibit 108 was received
and marked, in evidence)
MR. BLACKSHER:
By the way, Mr. Mims, Mobile Rug and Shade is owned
by either you or your brother; is that correct?
or superintendent with the South Central Bell Telephone Company.
434
976
A Absolutely not. I wish it were.
Q You are not connected with it?
A Absolutely not, Mr, Friedlander is the owner of
Mobile Rug and Shade Company.
0 All right. In any event, what is your explanation
for why there aren't more blacks on this board that affects
the lives of so many black citizens of this community?
A I think the black community is teprasarived and it has
been represented by Mr. LeFlore, who served on this board and
served ably, and as far as I am concerned, the blacks have
representation with the white members.
Q So you think they are adquately represented now?
A Yes, because I know that these men that I have
appointed to this board are just as interested in the blacks
as they are the whites.
Q Now, sir, we will go to item thirty, which is the
Mobile Library board which has had two black members out of
a total of twenty over the years. :
You wouldn't suggest, would you, that black citizens
of Mobile are not interested in the public library?
A Not at all.
Q Can you explain why there have been so few blacks
appointed to this board?
A Not really. This board is more or less an advisory 435
board
the bo.
librar:
why th
this p:
who are
many b!
and sa:
library
interes
A
g
kay bla
A
is a fa
the lis
acks
.zens
ory
977
the list before me, but these people are vitally interested
board to the commission and in charge of the libraries and
the board of commissioners. The personnel who works for the
library board is under civil service and I could not tell you
why there is a two to fourteen ratio.
We, again, try to appoint people who are interested in
this particular phase of our community activity and people
who are willing to devote time to it. So, perhaps not too
many blacks have shown an interest in it or have come forth
and said we would like to have a part in the operation of the
library system.
Q Now, I take it that you haven't gone out and actively
sought black participation on this board then?
A No. I haven't personally, no.
Q Similarly the next one, trom thirty-one, the greater
Mobile Mental Health Retardation Board indicates that there
fare no black members.
You would not suggest, would you, that blacks aren't
interested in mental health and retardation in Mobile?
A No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't suggest that at all.
9) Do you have any explanation for why there haven't been
any blacks appointed to this board? :
A As I indicated yesterday, if I am not mistaken, this
is a fairly new board and these members -- and I do not have
© 436
and have expressed great concern for mantal health and
retarded children and retarded people. There are some people
who are more interested than others and I have found people
who have members or people of their family affected in these
areas are more apt to press for these needs than others.
Q Well, once again, I will ask you if there have not
been saris black citizens of this conenity who have expressed
interest in the mental health problems of the community?
A I can't recall any blacks belns in any meetings with
reference to mental health problems. Now, there may have
been. I am not saying there haven't been, but to the best of
my recollection, as citizens and we have had a number of group
who have come to City Hall with reference to the mental
health program, interested citizens, and to.the best of my
recollection there have been no blacks among those who come
seeking funds or support for mental health.
0 i Are you familiar with, Mr. Mims, with the Searcy
Hospital Human Rights Committee that was appointed by the
Federal Court in Montgomery?
A Just what I have read in the media is all I know about
ie.
D .You are aware that there are black members on that
rommittee, aren't you?
A I am not aware of the make-up of that committee.
43%
Q
Mobile
import
are on
to both
is not
of char
Q
one bla
tion of
A
represer
color, w
I think
Q
not
ressed
7?
my
come
he
wv about
1at
=
Pn crm mca —————-
Q I think you said, concerning numbar thirty-three, the
Mobile Planning Commission, that it also is one of the most
important commissions of city government; is that correct?
‘A I would say so, because it has to do with Planning
and zoning.
Q Do you have any explanation for why there have been
A No. I know the gentleman who is on there now and the |
one who was on there prior to this gentleman being on, but
I could not tell you why the ratio is one to seven.
Again, this is one of those things where you really
are on the hot seat and you have to spend long hours listenir~
to both sides with their arguments and presentations, and it
is not easy to get people who will take this pressure, free
of charge, to be quite frank with you.
Q Are you suggesting that the Presence of one member,
one black member on this commission, is an adequate representa-
tion of black citizens of this community?
A Well, I would think all seven of these members
represent the community adequately, regardless of a person's
color, when he comes before the commission for a zoning matter.
I think they are represented adequately. Q Well, let's talk about zoning for a moment. Can't you agree with me that the white members of the
no more than two of fifteen blacks on that planning commission?
979
_ 438* vo
o
n
Rt
ck
a
a
SN
Co
S
C
N
A
S
£
m
committee are going to be less familiar with the black resider
nnd business areas of a city?
A No. I cannot agree with that because simply the
chairman of this commission, at this time, every week before
these matters come before the commission gets with the member
of the planning staff at his own expense and on his own time
and he visits every one of these sites that is coming before
that planning commission the next day .or the next week. He
goes out into the communitites on hiw own at his own expense
and familiarizes himself with these matters that are coming
before that commission.
Q Mr. Mims, I said my point was that one can go out
and inspect the various sites that are the subject of the
attention of the planning cormisoton, but unless one lives
in the area one is not going to know what the sentiments of | the residents or the peorle of the community are about how
that land is being used; would you agree with that?
a No. I would not agree with that.
0 Well, you have appointed Mr. John L. Blacksher to that
commission, have you not, the planning commission?
A Yes.
Q And is that the same Mr. John L. Blacksher about whom
we heard complaints earlier that owned a lumber company in
the Maysville area that was causing a nuisance?
_ 439:
980
tial
Q
feelir
zoned
— 1 380 Ta mb ; 1.981
residentia] A Yes.
Q Do you think Mr. Blacksher is familiar with the
$e feelings and sentiments in that area about the way it is
before zoned and planned?
Beuber A I think Mr. Blacksher is, because Mr. Blacksher has
Ri; tive met with the citizens of that area when they had a complaint
Before about his company. He went and met with them at one of the
ie local churches right next to his place of business and, as
ipense far as I know, Mr. Blacksher, with the exception of the lady
ming who testified here the other day, has good raport with his
neighborhood.
out Q Does Mr. Blacksher live im that same neighborhood?
Ehe A No. Mr. Blacksher doesn't live there.
yes Q His address here is Tuthill Lane. Is that in
ES of Springhill, the western end of town?
id A Yes.
Q Item thirty-four is the policeman, fire fighters
pension and relief fund board and has had seven members over
fo thel the years -- excuse me, has had ten members over the years,
seven at present, none of whom has been black,
| Now, I agree that there are relatively few, but there
it hon are some black policemen and fire fighters; is that correct?
Ch A Y think the record will prove that we have Black
jy : policemen and fire fighters; yes, sir.
_ 440
Q Is there any reason why none has been appointed to
this particular pension and relief fund board? :
A Well, I think it was brought out yesterday that most
of these members of this particular board are people who are
familiar with banking and people who are familiar about
financial matters and the whole idea is to try to get as much
interest as you can from the money that you have available in
the fund so that it will be able to pay the pensions of both
black and white people when they retire.
Q My notes indicate, on direct, that you said or
Mr. Arendall said that three bankers, one business man, one
investment businessman, the fire chief 2nd he police chief?
A I think that is correct.
Q You are not suggesting that there aren't any black \business men or bankers?
A Well, I have appointed a black banker or a savings
land loans man, a Mr. Davis, to various committees and have
ved him as an advisor on a number of occasions. I have a
high respect for Mr. Davis who is a savings and loan man, but
Mr. Davis happens not to be on this particular board.
{
Q You say Mr. Davis is the only black banker or business
man that you know?
A I didn't say that.
Q There are plenty of others?
you, that
Mobile?
A W
who have
don't kno
tree comm
A
to serve.
Mobile an.
desire to
I wouldn':
run three
of their c
Q Ax
Just haver
demonstrat
A I
people haw
should haw
Q It
council.
431
-
982
most
> are
3 much
>le in
both
one
1ief?
ack
18iness
od Mobile and public works commissioner is because I had a sinc
983
A I don't know that many black bankers, no, but I know
a lot of black businessmen, certainly.
Q You are not suggesting or you wouldn't suggest, would
you, that blacks aren't interested in where trees are cut in
Mobile?
A Well, let me say this, I don't know of any blacks
who have expressed a great deal of opinion about trees. I
don't know of any who have expressed a desire to serve on the
tree commission.
As far as I am concerned, people have to have a desirs
to serve. The only reason I am sitting here today as mayor of
desire to serve the people. If I hadn't have had that desire
I wouldn't have offered myself to run and I wouldn't have
run three times. So, people have to have a desire regardless
of their color.
Q Are you inferring that black people in this community
just haven't had the desire, get up and go that you have
demonstrated?
A I am saying that I do not believe that the black
people have expressed the interest in the community that they
should have. I will say that emphatically.
Q Item thirty-six is your neighborhood improvement
council. It goes around various neighberhoods holding meeting
ire
8,
_ 442
encouraging paint up, fix up, clean up.
THE COURT:
What number is that? Mine is stapled together here.
A Thirty-six, your Honor,
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. BLACKSHER:
For example, problems with street lights, chairman of
the committee, when he hears a complaint, will write you a
memo personally that you can take action on. There have only
been six of forty-nine blacks on that council.
Surely black citizens in this comiunisy, I think from
the testimony, are interested in their neighborhoods. Do you
have any explanation for why there are no more blacks than that
represented?
A I could not answer that specifically, but it would be
interesting to know if some of these blacks who have testified
in this Court have been to these neighborhood improvement
council meetings and have expressed themselves there. They
certainly haven't expressed themselves to me as public works
commissioner. In fact, I have met people here in this Court
that I have never seen before.
R Well, let's see, what was this other group, community
pervice meetings that you mentioned along this point, in your
= 343 een ———————————
direct t
improvem
improvem
A
all tryi
Q
the neig
through
A
improvem
la practi.
meeting.
Q 1
through 1
A Y
n A
needs of
A ¥
brought t
gone intc
because t
here.
han that
uld be
estified
nt
They
works
Court
985
a practice to attend every neighborhood improvement council
© - |Imeeting.
direct testimony, what is the relationship to the neighborhood
improvement council?
A Well, the community service meetings that I initiated
a number of years ago were primarily for ........ Q No. What is its relationship to the neighborhood
improvement council?
A There is no relationship with the exception we are
all trying to meet the needs of the community.
Q So you don't go into the neighborhood meetings through
the neighborhood improvement council, but you have gone in
through these community service meetings? A This is correct. I have attended neighborhood
improvement council meetings in the past, but I don't make it
Q You say you have tried to go into all of the communitil
through these commmity service meetings?
A Yes. .
n And it is the only way you know of of finding out the
needs of the commmities? :
A Well, let me say this, many of the needs have been °
brought to the City government's attention, because we have
gone into the communities and many of the needs have been met
because they were called to our attention at a community servi
es
bd HN ~ 4430
—
ed 9
meeting in a given neighborhood and so, I say without any guarde
hesitation, that the community service meetings have been
very beneficial to the people of Mobile and they have allowed Nobody
the establ Latent of a relationship or rapport between the |1ike tI
people and the city government that was sorely needed here. /n
Q You testified that you have been to meetings in black there,
areas , too? A
A Oh, absolutely. THE COl
Q Is that what you said in your book, Mr. Mims?
A: Well, I think you are referring to some meetings that black f
were held during the Reighth of racial trouble here in our strife
city and I happened to have a copy of the book right here and MR. BLA
I can quote you page and chapter where Mr. Outlaw and
Mr. Langan, who was revered by the blacks and I went to the A
Davis Avenue community center and we had ministers and preachers because
and priests and black leaders from all over the place who THE COU
booed, us and called us all kinds of names and called Mr. Langah,
who was supposed to be the great hero for black people, they MR. BLA
called him just as many names as they did me and so, in that
kind of a situation, at char particular time, we did not go THE COU:
back into any communities during those months when Beasley
was marching in the streets and Rap Brown and Stokley Carmichael to some
were making so much noise over the country and we had fire A
bombings and there were times when I had to have my house we went
a _ 445
any
pen
11lowed
the
ere.
1 black
8 that
our
re and
the
preachers
ho
armichael
Cl mien in : : 987
guarded at night because of threats.
We did not go back after we were treated so rudely.
Nobody but a crazy person would go back after they treated us
| 1ike they did. I will be frank with you about that.
Q Well, there were a lot of people that stayed right
there, the people that reside on Davis Avenue, right?
A Sir, I don't know.
THE COURT:
I think we are beating a dead horse here. There were
black people undoubtedly who stayed and it was a time of racial
strife is his point.
MR. BLACKSHER:
|
You were going to quote page and verse?
A Well, I had heard you were going to call me a racist,
because of my book.
THE COURT:
Let's don't get into an argument.
MR. BLACKSHER:
You heard what?
THE COURT: :
Let's don't get into an argument. If you want to refar
to some page, go ahead.
A Your Honor, I was going to refer to the incident where
we went to Davis Avenue and were treated rudely and it is in
= ~a46T —
my book.
of ext:
THE COURT:
not exj
Did you want him to........
MR. BLACKSHER:
is ence
The name of the book is "For Christ and Country", by HB. BL
Lambert C. Mims and published in 1969; is that right? Le
A | Yes.
introdt
Q On page sixty-one -- well, it starts on page sixty
THE COt
and you talk about going into the various communities and one
of the first communities we visited we found a disturbing MR. BLA
situation. In addition to the people of the neighborhood who
came to the meeting there was a large number of outsiders.....
were fr
THE COURT: :
many we
Mr. Blacksher, I really don't see any reason to that
and nun
It is like asking a black person to go to some extremist white to int
meeting at a time of strife. I don't think that will
5 seen su
particularly help us. J ed ghbo
MR. BLACKSHER: )
| The book doesn't indicate they are extremists. Let
confere
me read from his book.
I made
THE COURT: 1 ’
= eeting
. The question is, you may offer testimony on what 4 oti Lean
h EE e says was his ensuing Sonduct ang whether it was safe to go & Matermt:
back or not. We all know there was a time back in the sixtie 3
believe
_ 447
Y . by
sixty
and one
‘ng
rod who
BS vo 00
to that].
t white
Let
nat
to go
sixties
| 988
SEEN
989
{land nuns.
of extremes strife in this coumtry and thank goodness it is
not expressing itself in those over actions now.
And I think we are getting off into something that
is encouraging arguments, so forth and so on.
=. BLACKSHER:
; Well, for whatever impeachment value, I will
introduce a copy of this.
THE COURT:
Go ahead, Mr. Blacksher. You may do as you wish.
MR. BLACKSHER:
"Some wets from other parts of the City and some
were from far away. Most of these were militant blacks, but
many were clergymen, protestant ministers, catholic priests
to intimidate their City fathers. Never in my life have I
seen such abuse of public officials. We discontinued the
neighborhood meetings.
Recently I was asked, during a television news
conference, whether we were going to resume these meetings.
I made the statement that I do not intend to go back to a
meeting like that, again. To be abused and harrassed by
militant irresponsibles whose aim, as far as some of us could
determine, is simply to disrupt the whole City. I do not
believe that the people who elected us to the City Commission
|
For nearly three hours these people accused and tried
448:
990
would endure this kind of thing and neither will we."
And by the people that elected you, Mr. Mims, I
take it you were talking about the people in the suburbs?
A Well, I am talking about the City electorate, as a
whole. I don't think any sane person, as I said a moment ago
would go back and willingly present himself for this kind of
persediition and this kind of ridicule.
These paragraphs you have read, or this paragraph you
are lifting out of this book that has many, many paragraphs
that are all together different from this that talks about the
harmony that we have and all the good we are doing in the
commmity. You are lifting from this book, for Christ and
Country, which has a lot of good things in it. You are lifting
this out of context. This did not mean .......
THE COURT:
I hate to keep pursuing it. I want to make a
anda,
We recognized that Lyndon Johnson had'to limit his
visitations during those periods of strife and, for a period
of time, according to the news reports, his main appearances
were at military bases and so forth. Let's get on to something
more productive, gentlemen.
n Well, let's talk about plumbers, Mr. Mims. Item
thirty-seven, Plumber's Examining Board. No blacks have ever
449:
been =
examin.
appoin
know o:
there r
plumbes
Q
thirty-
it now
Mr. Bai
recomme
of the
A
ment to
rT ecomme:
persona
990
Lifting
his
-iod
ces
~ethin
mever
B
991
been appointed to that board.
Can you explain why?
A According to the, as I understand it, ordinance,
the people on this board would be people who know something
about plumbing. For instance, I would not be very good on
this board because I don't know much about plumbing. So, as I understand it, these people on this board
examine applicants for plumbers' licenses and so we have
appointed, in accordance with the ordinance. I do not persona
know of a black master plumber in the City of Mobile. Now,
there may be some. I do now know personally a black master
plumber, for instance.
q What about the recreation advisory board, item
thirty-eight. There is one black person out of twenty-two?
A Hasn't that board already served its time and isn't
it now non-existent?
Q My notes indicate that it was proposed by
Mr. Bailey. They were not reappointed in 1974 and that Mr. Ba
recommended all the names and you want Mr. Bailey to take all
of the responsibility for it; is that it? :
A Well, sir, I don't recall having made one appoint-
ment to this board, personally. I concurred with Mr. Bailey's
recommendations at the time, I am sure, but I don't recall
personally making one of these appointments and I couldn't
i
ly
iley
~ 350 —
tell you, to. save my life, who was on it.
Q Well, you certainly will agree, wouldn't you, that there are many more blacks than indicated by this representa-
tion that ave indicated in recreation in the City?
A I certainly do. The black people certainly utilize
the recreational facilities as much as anyone else in the
community, but this is something Mr. Bailey brought up. What
reason he wanted it for, I really do not now, and I could not
recall. I am sure I concurred in it. I don't know whether
the records shows I voted for it or not. It takes two to make
a Rajorisy on a three man team, ;
Q South Alabama Regional Planning Commission, item
number thirty-nine. This commission has the same members, the same terms as the Mobile Planning Commission; is that correct?
A This is right.
} ‘ The Board of Water and Sewer Commissioners, item
Jforey. One black out of twelve over the years.
| Can you explain why there haven't been any more
[blacks on that board, Mr. Mims?
A Well, I think the blacks and the whites have suffi- |
cient representation. As I said yesterday I have made one
appointment to that board, Mr. Moore, and somehow it was
worked around where he was the only one I can lay claim to,
“a51
992 _
because
commiss
they hm
remembes
board.
MR. BLA
THE COU
column?
MR. BLA
educati
that th
I presu
A
boards
for som
that
enta-
2m
£Fi- i
993
because of deaths and because of vacancies and other
commissioners would feel that this was their appointment and
they have, therefore, replaced these people as they vacated
the position and I can claim only Mr. Moore, who served as
chairman, and I think does a fantastic job as chairman.
MR. ARENDALL:
Mr. Blacksher I will call your attention that you
remember that Bishop Phillips was formerly a member of that
board.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Two bLadhy out of twelve.
MR. ARENDALL:
Yes.
THE COURT:
So that should be one over in the prior black member
column?
MR. BLACKSHER:
All right. Mr. Mims, skip down to item forty-six,
educational board. I understand your direct testimony to say
that this was a board furthering the employees' education.
1 presume you mean the employees of the City of Mobila?
A As I understand this board, there are so many
boards here that this could be some other board to get funds
for someone. I do not know, but as I understand it, this is
—
452 +
]
BRS
o
h
e
a
t
a L
C
C
R
sic
S
e
e
the board whereby City employees are screened, those who
want to further their education, and who are seeking City
funde for their tuition.
Q And this board is made up of department heads of
the City of Mobile?
A : As I understand it. I do not have that list before
i And one member elected at large?
A If that is what the ordinance says.
Q Or appointed from among the citizenary, I should
say? | .
A Yes.
Q I guess that explains why there is no blacks on that]
board since there are no black department heads?
A You said it. Is that a question?
THE COURT:
§ ‘ Mr. Blacksher, let me see if I can get the thrust of
your questioning. Let's see what your contentions are.
Is it your contention that there should be a pro-
rata membership on the boards of whites and blacks or what is
your contention?
MR. BLACKSHER:
Your Honor, our contention is that responsiveness in
the contexts of the voting rights cases has to do with the
| 433
994
wr
access
tion ix
THE COI
be on a
MR. BL4
number
to the
THE COL
myself,
as air
electri
that cc
and I t
evidenc
statist
and we
is a ma
of blac
of how
to peop
Ao REO SE FU Ni et VA 0 ln ol ahh Did: Svat wie} IY
access of particular segments of the community to participa-
tion in the government
THE COURT:
I asked you a question. Do you contend that must
o£
; be on a quota basis?
MR. BLACKSHER:
s fore
Absolutely not. I do not contend, over a large number of boards or a large -- there has to be weight given
to the fact that blacks are present.
THE COURT:
Let me ake this observation. I cannot address
myself, in the opinion, too many details. On such things
that as air conditioning boards, architectural review boards,
electrical examiners, plumbing examining boards -- and I note
that counsel for Plaintiffs are all whites. In Title 7 cases,
and I think I should take somewhat judicial knowledge of
St of ; evidence that has come to the Court on these matters that
statistics have been offered to show that in skilled places,
and we know somewhat, for instance about lawyers, that there
tts is a market lack of blacks who are attorneys and a marked lack
of blacks who are in skilled positions.
Now, that may address itself to the whole structure
bs $n of how it came about, but I don't think it addresses itself
: to people placed on a certain number of these boards. I only
imi Rana 1 1
it 996
speak with reference to those, though, that call for some say the
special talent in placing people on boards. I think we have came ab
to be cognizant of where there ate special talents that there address
must be sone pool from which they can reasonably be drawn. MR. BLA
I will give you an opportunity to say anything about those
remarks that you desire. a situa
MR. BLACKSHER: particu
All I would say, your Honor, is that in every case THE COU
there has been no evidence that there are not blacks neverthe-
less availahle for these occupations. The point of fact is require
most of these boards-where some special skill is required, the MR. BLAS
City Commission adopts the recommendations made by private
industry. like lie
THE COURT: THE COUR
Wouldn't the same thing apply to you? There are
some skilled black lawyers. Why aren't they here at your who has
table? | black ox
MR. BLACKSHER: | was blac
I don't know how to answer that. : MR. BLAC
THE COURT: :
They very seldom appear in these cases. You are th with rem
lead counsel in this case, and, in most of these cases you " plumbers
lead counsel. Why there may be some, you have to look at it | cians, =
overall and then we run into a very difficult area. Like I that the
_ 455
are
hb
a
g
e
s
Sh
ia
R
e
PO
~~
say there may be, so far as the structure and how these hing
came about, that is one thing, but I don't think those things
address itself to this Court in this case.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Well, another point we would make, your Honor, in
a situation where the entire citizenary has to depend on these
particular boards and agencies for their livelihood.
THE COURT:
I am not talking about the other boards. These that
require special skills are those to which I refer.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Yes. Those boards pass on applications for things
like licenses and permits.
THE COURT:
Well, would you contend that you should put a person
who has no knowledge in that position just because they are
black or would you fly in an airplane with a pilot because he
was black and not qualified?
MR. BLACKSHER:
I would say, in the light of testimony of Mr. Randoly
vith respect to difficulties for blacks getting permits to’ be
plumbers where there are qualified black plumbers or electri-
cians, a responsive government would make some effort to see
that they are represented on these boards.
bh,
456.
MR. ARENDALL:
| If your Honor please, I don't recall any testimony
being given as to mistreatment by any of these boards.
THE COURT:
Go ahead. I will let you gentlemen make further statements. Like I say, this is my only forum to make such
:
comments and make my views known. It is impossible to go
into details on any decree, whichever way the case goes, one
way or- the other.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Mr. Mims, I would like to talk about your testimony
concerning the master drainage project. You say that began
in 1972 and was approved or what?
A If my memory serves me correctly, it was presented
by the public works commissioner to the board of commissioners
in 1972 and was improved and we began to try to program funds
for this massive drainage program.
Q What is it going to accomplish? '
A Well, it is going to alleviate flooding and correct
erosion problems in many areas of the city.
Q What work is being done, now? Is it all being done
by engineers somewhere in an office?
A Well, Mr. Blacksher, I would like for you to get
in a car with me and I will drive you over the City.
THE COL
A
Toulmin
communi
off of
million
souther
I usual
people
underwa
Branch.
one in -
We just
inciden:
Arnold 1}
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A
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. 457
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99
THE COURT :
No, let's don't engage in that kind of answer.
A Well, we completed one not too long ago in
Toulminville. We have one underway in one of your law firms'
communities at Laurel and Devitt. We have a saltwater branch
off of Dauphin Island Parkway. We have completed a two
million dollar project called the Southern Drain in the
southern part of the City here.
I have a list of projects that are being built now.
I usually carry a list in my pocket so I will know where
people are working and big stickney, for instance, has been
underway and that is the one I just referred to, Saltwater
Branch.
Here is community development project and here is
one in the Texas Street area. The Zeigler Boulevard culvert.
We just awarded a contract this morning at seven-thirty,
incidentally, when we met for conference. Alba Club Road,
Arnold Road -- they are all over the city. Icehouse Branch,
Claridge Road, Bolton Branch, Broad Street widening and
drainage project.
.
0) Is this master plan spelled out in one document
somewhere? '
A Yes. We have a brochure or folder or master drainagg
program. We have some projects that are being done on master
p -
458
1000 : Cae
drainage and some prajects being done under capital projects THE con
and capital improvement funds and under the community develop-
ment fumds. So, we have four major funds that we are talking MR. BLJ
about, plus we do a lot of drainage work out of the operating
budget through the regular public works forces. to say,
Q What about the Three Mile Creek drainage project, you sal
Mr. Mims? What is happening on that? to make
A Well, I testified earlier that we had met with the what we
orp of Engineers and because the Three Mile Creek runs into to ests
Mobile River and that is part of the Tennessee-Tombigbee culture
system, we are going to be able to get assistance from the have df
Corp of Engineers and from the Federal government in the people
improvement of this major stream that runs all the way across wanted
the city from the western city limits all the way to the THE COU
eastern city limits, you might say, or to the Mobile River.
This is a major drainage system and it will be improved and said abe
is being improved. We have dredged it on a number of occasions black ==
nd we have a regular maintenance program of Three Mile Creek Commi ss:
nd we plan to make other improvements as we receive the The cou
recommendations from the Corp of Engineers. black p
THE COURT: Just pr-
All right. Let's take a fifteen minute break. some re=
this is
(RECESS) MR. BLA-
_ 459
; |
in OG 4 pase = oman sinister OL
ects THE COURT:
velop- All right. You may proceed.
alking MR. BLACKSHER:
ating Before we get back to drainage, Mr. Mims, I wanted
to say, for the record, that with reference to the remarks
ct, you said earlier -- I mean, this sincerely, I am not trying
to make you out a racist. I think the Court understands
the what we are trying to show, what the Plaintiffs are trying
into to establish, that white people who live in a different
culture from black people who live in different meighborhoods
ho have difficulty relating and responding to problems of black
people and that is all I am trying to demonstrate and I
CcrO8s wanted to make sure you understood that.
. THE COURT:
rer Let me make these remarks in relation to what I
and said about the boards and what census figures show about
.casion$ black skilled workers. I do not mean for the City
Creek Commissioners to take from that, that they don't have any duty.
. The courts frequently required affirmative action to recruit
black people. So there won't be any misunderstanding, I was
just probing the Plaintiff's position and then there were’
: some remarks that I indicated that I wanted to make, because
this is my only forum. Go ahead.
MR. BLACKSHER:
— 460.2.
We were talking about the master drainage project.
I wanted to ask you, particularly, about the Three Mile
Creek drainage project, Mr. Mims,
You said there were three water sheds in Mobile;
Three Mile Creek, Dog River and one other, right?
A The Mobile River.
Q What is going to happen -- what kind of work are you
drainage service for the community it serves like I saw it
starts over in west Mobile. The complaints we have heard
to date have been from Trinity Gardens, Crichton, right down
on Davis Avenue where the Roger Williams project are all
frequently flooded and what other areas?
THE COURT:
Just one moment. Did I leave something out that
you wanted to comment on?
A Well, let me say this. The area that has complained
the most is in the vicinity of Stanton Road and Tonlours and
in this area than any other area along Three Mile Creek since
I have been in office.
I know, for a fact, that water has gotten up into
houses along the area of Shadowgay, which is just off of
Stanton Road.
going to do to make the Three Mile drainage project an adequate
Shadowgay area. They have had more flooding and more complaints
461:
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falls in
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evidence
certain
an obstr
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We have
and blac
under gr
that are
when the
City anc
funding,
i
was a 1003
1002
Q Is that a white community, Shadowgay?
i A Yes.
E Q Tonlours is a changing commmity?
= ; A It has changed, is my understanding.
; 3 Q It is now a majority black?
5 A It is now changing. I don't know what the percentage
: g would be. As I indicated earlier, this is a major pier
ES I : or drainage easement and a great portion of the water that |
—lequatie :
falls in the City of Mobile, sooner or later, comes out of
Rt Three Mile Creek up here on Three Mile Creek north of the
docks. The Corp of Engineers, in their study, will present
ava evidence as to certain culverts that need to be replaced or
certain bridges that need to be replaced that might be causing
an obstruction, things such as this.
It is very doubtful that the Corp of Engineers wld
BE ever recommend that Three Mile Creek be paved from one end to
the other. You know, there is just some things you don't do.
51ned We have had recommendations from some citizens, both white
an and black that we, you know, pave Three Mile Creek or put it
sda under ground or put it in a culvert and things such as this
2ince i that are absolutely not feasible. So, we are saying that
when the Corp of Engineers presents its recommendations to the
te ; City and hopefully, at that time, we will get some Federal
funding, because the Corp is involved and then we can make the
i ie pn | 462
improvements that would be necessary to provide good
drainage. It will not necessarily mean it will be a paved
improvement or a covered improvement or some exotic looking
drainage system. It may still be a hundred years from now
an open creek. The idea is to provide drainage to keep areas
from flooding.
Q Do I understand that you, at the present time, do
not know for sure what you are going to do about the overall
fhree Mile Creek drainage project. You are still waiting
on something from the Corp? |
A As far as Three Mile Creek itself is concerned,
we are making improvements to various tributaries going into
Three Mile Creek like the big Stickney, the little Stickney,
the Trinity Gardens Drainage, much of it will go into Three
Mile Creek. :
Q What are you doing in Trinity Gardens right now?
A ; That is included in the community development
monies that will be, I am sure, presented later in this trial
by some of our staff people. The whole program will be
presented, but we have plans to try to drain Trinity Gardens.
So we can get on with the paving of the streets like we wanted
to do these low many years.
Q Those are still in the planning stage, the drainage
projects for Trinity Gardens?
463
Crichtos
solved :
A
making i
necessar
made fre
time, mas
works cr
the drai
be a mis
had to £
so low.
definite
be put ur
program °
ow?
trial
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wanted
ainage
1005
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—
—
—
A © Well, I consider anything in the planning stage
until you start turning the earth. But we do have definite
plans and, as I said, these will be presented by technical
people and members of our staff later on in this trial, I
am sure.
Q Can you give the residents of Trinity Gardens and
Crichton some word about whet the drainage problems will be
solved for their neighborhood or will be improved?
A Well, of course, we have been in the process of
making improvements all along. All improvements are not
necessarily from capital expenditures. Many improvements are
made from a maintenance standpoint and we have, from time to
time, made corrections here and yonder with our local public
works crews. For someone to say that we have not improved
the drainage in Crichton and Trinity Gardens I think would
be a misstatement. It has been improved.
The first time I went to Trinity Gardens you almost
had to fly over the area, to be frank with you. It is
so low. We have made improvements.
We have not reached utopia there, but we do have
definite concrete plans and hopefully some of this work will
be put under contract in the very near future.
As I said, I do not have the community development
program before me. Neither do I have the master drainage
—-
464°
program, but all of this has been programmed.
Q Will the community development program that will
have a time table in it that will answer my question?
A ‘Yes. With appropriate maps and everything.
Q Have you calculated and will we be presented
evidence on how much money has been spent by the City of
Mobile on the Three Mile Creek drainage project and the other
drainage projects.
MR. ARENDALL:
Mr. Blacksher, the answer to that question is that
we have never asked anybody to compile an itemization of
expenditures related directly to Three Mile Creek, but we will
have the staff people to give you the details about what is
projected for it.
MR. BLACKSHER:
The reason I anked Mr. Mims, of course, is the
little we have to go on -- this October, 1973 newspaper
article that indicates that the public works department, which
is your area, was allocated some eight hundred and ninety-
eight thousand dollars for Three Mile Creek area drainage
programs; four hundred and sixty-two thousand dollars for
downtown area drainage program and some nine hundred and
Sg
}
forty-nine thousand for the Dog River area drainage program.
It is things like this that have given rise to the
465
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of
he other
is that
of
+t we will
hat is
the
eT
nt, which
nety-
nage
for
and
—ogram.
to the
question, in our minds, about where most of the money is being
spent. Do you see the Dog River project or the Dog River
drainage problems as being more difficult to solve or warranting
more expenditures of money than the Three Mile Creek project?
A Well, the reason that some of these projects moved
ahead faster than others was because some of the plans were
more complete, at that time, Now, I don't have that article in front of me, but we run into all kinds of problems as
you start planning and designing, not only drainage projects,
but road projects or anything else.
You run into rights-of-way problems. You run #nto
things that sometimes are beyond your control and so if you
have "x" number of millions of dollars allocated for each
year's program you go ahead with the projects as you have, you might say on the shelf, the design and everything you havd
on the shelf, and you go ahead with it.
Now, in that particular instance, apparently the
plans by the Volkert Company, now, they handle the Dog River
drainage easement or watershed. Apparently those plans were
ready to roll and so we proceeded. That does, not mean that
the Three Mile Creek watershed is taking any lesser priority.
It may mean that converse, who is the engineer on that water-
shed, may not have had their plans ready or there might have
been easement problems.
466
1008
i
We find a lot of people are quick to complain, but i prepare
when you go out to try to get an inch of their land to get aterst
the improvements on and then you have to take them to Court, i So, tha
too. : THE COU
Q Have you been to Court over the Three Mile drainage i
project? ¢ develop
A I canndt say specifically, but I do know on many, i A
many of these projects we have problems after we have worked THE COU.
hard to try to get the money allocated and after we have the ;
plans prepared and after we have the light on green and ready : A
to go and then we run head in to property owners who do not certain!
want to co-operate, as far as the right-of-way is concerned. ° commiss:
That is a problem not only in black areas, but in white areas i Mile Cre
in every area of the commmity. | | | Jlour city
Q You don't know whether they have more problems with § prbyeats
that in the Three Mile Creek area than the Dog River area? .
A: No. I can't answer that, between
Q Do you know specifically why the Dog'River plans : of work
were advanced more quickly than the Three Mile Creek plans? sure.
A I just tried to explain that. We have three MR. BLAC
engineers, Converse on Three Mile Creek, Pollyengineering on
the dewntown river system and David Volkert and Associates direct t
on the Dog River project or Suen and all three of these million .
engineering companies are studying their watersheds and their twenty-s:
46'7
with
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prepared plans on these various projects related to those
watersheds and some plans are more advanced than others.
So, that is the best I can answer that question.
THE COURT:
I take it your answer to be the Dog River plans were
developed earlier than the Three Mile Creek plans?
A I would say so, your Honor.
THE COURT:
All right.
A Let me say, for the record, if I may, that there
certainly has been no reason on the part of the publie works
commissioner or the city commission to hold back on Three
Mile Creek watershed, because it does affect a huge area of
our city and it is our desire to try to get all of these
projects done as quickly as possible.
I wish that I could snap my finger and do all of them
between now and the first day of August, but it is just a lot
of work involved as our people will try to show you, I am
sure,
MR. BLACKSHER: |
While we were talking about Trinity Gardens in the
direct testimony, you recall the point being made that a
million dollars being spent in the Trinity Garden area and
twenty-seven thousand dollars in collected taxes and I want
3
468:
to clarify this point, however, Do property taxes provide
a very large share of the City of Mobile revenue income from
its citizens?
A "Not necessarily, no,
Q In fact, most of the revenues of the City of
Mobile comes from other kinds of taxes; isn't that correct?
A | Well, sales tax would be our main source of revenue}
Q And, of course, there is no way for you to know
how much of that was attributed by residents of Trinity
Gardens?
A Well, I don't think anyone, even the best of
experts, could tell you exactly how much soney came out of
Trinity Gardens.
Q I agree with that. with respect to street paving,
now, we have these -- this information that was turned over
to us by your people, a Mr. Chapman, which is Exhibit 74 and
whioh we have summarized in Exhibit 75 and when we intro-
duced it, Mr. Arendall made the point that a number of some of
the streets are paved by private developers and I think you
re-affirmed that on your direct testimony.
Have you sorted out the number or miles of streets
that were paved by private developers as opposed to by those
that were paved by the City, of Mobile?
A No. I have not and I have not seen your Exhibit.
1010
469
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was pave
and we a:
so 1010 | : 1011 !
de i MR. ARENDALL:
from i Mr. Blacksher, we expect to put Mr. Summerall on
| who knows whatever there is to know about that. He is the
! paving man.
; MR. BLACKSHER:
ct? ! You did testify about resurfacing, Mr. Mims, didn't
venue : you? I think you said resurfacing is not assessed to the
Ww property owners?
A Resurfacing is out of the general fund budget.
Q This Exhibit by Mr. Chapman says, at the bottom,
that the information contained herein includes the miles of
of gutters, paving and also includes resurfacing of streets that!
was done by the city both before and after 1970, but you are
ing, not familiar with this Exhibit and you haven't apprised yours 1f
ver of exactly how many miles have been developed. repaved or
and r resurfaced in the various neighborhoods?
- | A Well, I am not familiar with your Exhibit. I say
ome of 3 emphatically we do not charge for resurfacing.
you Now, on a street like Lincoln Street, which was
a pars surfaced paved street, in my opinion, testimony previous
eets | in this Court indicated that that person did not think it
hose 1 was paved, but it was paved, as far as I am concerned.
Now, we are going out aid tearing up a paved street
it. and we are putting down underground drainage and curb and
ATT
gutters and that is an assessment program. If we go down
St. Joseph here on Dauphin Street or Gill Road or Dogwood
Lane or whatever it might be, we resurface the street at no
cost whatsoever to the property owners. It comes out of the
general fund, our operating budget of the City of Mobile or
capital outlay from the capital budget for the purpose of
re-surfacing. There is no assessment.
I don't know what Mr. Chapman has said there. I
haven't seen that. If he said we are charing for re-surfacing
he is in error.
Q Why couldn't you re-surface the Lincoln Street?
A Well, sir, I have tried to say all the time that
Lincoln Street was a surfaced street. It had a hard surface.
It was a paved street and ..........
Q 1 am asking 1f it was paved why couldn't you just
re-surface it?
At Because there were a drainage problem. This was
a complaint that people had built down on the lower side of
the street and I am very familiar with Lincoln Street. I
have been there many times. On the north side of the
street the houses were built in many cases lower than the
crown of the paved Lincoln Street. Therefore, the water would
po off of Lincoln Street down into the yards and under the
houses and, in one case, the person who was complaining had
re
g
47%
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ve put
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A
occasio-
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and had
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A
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» had
1013
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a big long limousine type of an automobile and we suggested
we put a curb up there or berm to keep the water from going
into his yard and that would affect him from getting in and
out of his driveway. When they came to the place where they
were willing to pay part of the construction costs of what
you might say is a new street and that is what is going to be
when they finish, then we proceeded with the project. So, I
am sure, over a period of years, Lincoln Street was re-
surfaced.
In fact, I am positive that Lincoln had a new
surface put on it, from time to time, over the years.
Q Concerning this assessment question, how is it
that you know until recently the residents weren't willing
to bear the assessment?
A Well, sir, I had met with a Reverand Smith on many
occasions. In fact, in 1965, prior to my first election, I
sat on Reverand Smith's porch and also he has indicated to
the contrary, but I promised him I would look into it and
I did look into it and I had looked into it a number of times
and had talked to Reverand Smith on a number of occasions and
Q And Reverand Smith told you that people would not
bear the assessment?
|]
A Reverand Smith, to the best of my recollection, forever
47%
we
o
o
—41014
made demands. Number one, that he was a taxpayer, which I
understood quite well; and, number two, the City ought to
a
c
a
r
a
>
come out there and do something about his problem and my & be will
contention was that we ought to be doing something about the 4 THE COU"
dirt streets and the unimproved areas of the city first and :
then, as money and resources were available and as people 1 A
wanted to participate, then try to correct some of these other THE COUN
problems of long standing and so it was not until about a year
ago or whatever dates the documents show that they agreed to
pay an assessment on Lincoln Street and it was, at that time,
that the City Commission moved forward with the project
taking two-thirds of the money out of the City treasury and
one-third of the money will come back from the project. Over
a ten year period, we will get one-third of it back from the E necessit
property owners. 4 A
It was not until they expressed a desire to share E you are
in the cost of it that we went ahead with the project. 4 stood th
Q So the answer to my question was no? 4 I am sur
A Well, I don't know what the anentich was now. 4 THE COUR
MR. BLACKSHER:
Would you read it back? 1 of commos
THE COURT: El atl to +
He wanted to know back in the beginning whether or It A
not he refutes or the property owners refused to be assessed. ¥ understar
473
at the
- and
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a year
ed to
time,
and
Over
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1015
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—
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A Your Honor, they did not indicate that they would
be willing to pay.
THE COURT:
Did they indicate that they wouldn't?
A That they would not pay?
THE COURT:
Yes.
A They did not indicate that they would pay. It was
more a demand that we come out and do something, because he
was a taxpayer and the most vocal one was Reverand Smith.
THE COURT:
In those discussions, did you inform them of the
necessity of property assessments?
A I could not say, under oath, your Honor, that look
you are going to have pay so much a foot, but it was under-
stood that everyone paid an assessment on street improvements
I am sure that was during our comments.
THE COURT:
When you say everybody understood, is that a matter
of common knowledge or from your discussions, he could not
fail to understand it?
A I think from our discussions he couldn't fail to
understand it. Somebody had to pay for it.
»
474
1016
THE COURT:
No, no. Somebody having to pay it and whether a
citizen has to pay it are two different things.
him there was a property assessment?
A Your Honor, I couldn't specifically say that I told
him he had to pay so much. I thought it was specifically
enderatood that everybody had to pay.
THE COURT:
Go ahead, Mr. Blacksher.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Mr. Mims, would you agree that black citizens in
Mobile do have particular rised interests peculiar to them?
A : No. I could not say that they have particularized
interests. The whole comunity has interests.
Q ~~ + Well, since you have your book, for Christ and
Country before you, the kind of thing I am talking about is
discussed on pages sixty-seven and sixty-eight.
to read these sections, if the Court will permit.
THE COURT: |
Go ahead.
MR. BLACKSHER:
"We can no longer live in the days of our forefathers.
Negroes no longer live down the lane and pick cotton. The
black man has been thrust into society. It matters not Whether
Did you tell
I would like
475
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be fac
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issue.
totally
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needs -
to be ae
go throu
Mr. Mims
particul
A
what I w
that rea
able Ame;
of course
book was
1016 I ——
3012
ERE Vota |
; we like this fact. There is no escape. This problem must
er a v be faced."
ou tell i Then over on the next page -- I am skipping, but
a you can fill me in any tine you feel like there is something
I told : you want heard. '"Reasonable white men must alse realize the
lly predicament of the blacks. Since the 1954 Civil Rights
decision, the American negroe has made much progress, and
many white men have changed their atitudes toward the race
issue. However, many thousands of negroes find themselves
totally unprepared: to assume their places of responsibilities
8 in in society,
them?
Reasonable white men must realize that the negroe
irized needs training and education, and that in many cases he needs
to be advanced culturally. Reasonable white men must patiently
d go through this period of adjustment,"
it is That is the kind of thing I am talking about
d like Mr. Mims. Don't you agree that those kind of interests are
particular to black citizens of Mobile?
A Well, I think the whole community has needs and
what I was trying to do in this chapter of my book was to show
that reasonable white men and reasonable black men and reason!
efathers. able Americans could work out the problems that we have and
The of course, you have to take into consideration that this
whether book was published in the fall of 1969 right on the heels of
_ 476
all of the racial trouble that we had had in this country.
Q Well, now, concerning reasonable men, and let me
ark you, your views on this part at tha bottom of page
sixty-eight, ‘will you say that the "negroes also must be
reasonable. They will have to realize that the events of
a hundred years cannot be changed in the snap of a finger.
The nilivant negroes want everything now. This is impossible,
The businessman starts small and grows. The farmer plants
a seed and cultivates before he gets a harvest. And it is
my firm conviction that the shouts and demands of the negroe
that the position of the negro race as a whole be changed now;
will never get the job done, If those who: shout "now" would
spend half their energy trying to help the negro advance, they
would accomplish far more."
Do you still feel that way about the so called
negro problem?
A No, because you have a period of what, seven years
now, of basically harmony among the races in our community
and, at that time, as I said a moment ago, this was right on
the heels of the marches, right at the time where there was a
group, incidentally, called NOW when there were burnings and
there were threatenings and all kinds of things going on and
turmoil in the community and people were demanding and shoutirn
and marching on City Hall and marching on the city audiotoriun
12
i
477
-
ack
o
and ha
point
publiis
able b
are go
at han
that tl
people
there a
over se
meaning
I will
Q
reasonal
a promi:
agitatic
folley,
privileg
and cons
It is im
.
1 1019
ry. and Aad demonstrations in the streets. What I am trying to
. me point out in this particular chapter of this book that was
published in 1969 was that reasonable white men and reason-
® able black men are going to have to sit down and white men
of are going to have to realize that there is a responsibility
er. at hand and the black People are going to have to realize
ssible| that they have responsibility also.
nts So, my main point here was to Prove as reasonable
is people set down they could work these things out. Of course, |
egroe there are other things that you skipped over. You skipped
ed now over sections of this chapter that -- all of it is very
would meaningful. For instance, you can read some of the things.
e, the] I will not go ineo it.
Q Let me ask you one more question on this what is
d reasonable. I would like to read you a statement Rade by
a prominent black politician and ask you if this is reasonable.
years "The wisest among my race understand that the
ity £ agitation of questions of social equality is the extremest
ht on : folley, and that progress in the enjoyment of all the
was a F privileges that will come to us must be the result of severe
s and ] and constant struggle rather than of arifificial forcing.
a and It is important and right that all Privileges of the law be
shouting | ours, but it is vastly more important that we be prepared for
ytorium 4 the exercises of these privileges. The apportunity to earn a
| Tas 1
1020
dollar in a factory just now is worth infinitely more than
the opportunity to spend a dollar in an opera house."
Would you say that is a reasonable attitude for
i a black politician to take?
A I would say that is reasonable. I would have to
digest that sentence by sentence.
Q ~ Let me point out that this statement was made by
Booker T. Washington, September 18, 1895 at the Atlanta
Cotton States and International Exposition and, of course,
what I have reference to is that your point about the things
that can't be changed in a snap of a finger, that occurred
over a hundred years ago. That was four generations ago,
Mr. Mims,
A Well, sir. I can't help what my father did or what
my grandfather did. In 1965 I saw a great need in this
community for some leadership and I was very happy in
business, but I saw a great need for service and I offered
myself as a candidate for the Mobile City Commission and for
eleven years my sincere desire has been to meet the needs
of this entire community,both black and white, and I have
devoted eleven years of my life to this task and the record
is there and you can search it from 1965 on, on October 4th,
until this day, and if you would be reasonable you would say
that Lambert Mims has tried to meet the needs of this community.
479
Q
asked Ci
equal er
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Q Let me ask you, then, sir, the same question I
asked Commissioner Dayle about City ordinances for fair or
equal employment opportunity, for open housing, for public
accomadation, and the cross burnings legislation. Would you
be in favor of city ordinances on those issues?
A Well, on some of those matters they are covered by
federal laws and regulations that would supersede anything
we do anyway. So, it would be a waste of time and effort oy
paper for the city to pass an ordinance about open housing.
I think people should live wherever their economic situation
will permit them to live.
If you can afford a forty thousand dollar home you
ought to be able to buy a forty thousand dollar home wherever.
it is. If you can't afford but a twenty thousand, well, a lot
of people can't afford but a twenty thousand. I am not
opposed to people living where their economic situation will
allow them to live.
I see no need for a city ordinance for that. I
think, as an American citizen, you have that right.
On the cross burnings, I deplore rons burnings. I
do not condone that in any shape, form or fashion. I brought
the two reverands who wrote me, Reverand Stokes and McCree and
sent copies to everybody and his brother and said silence
might mean that you condone or something like this. I wrote
_ 480 -
1022
those bretheren back -- and I think Mr. Arendall has a copy
of a letter and told them, "You men know me better than to say
that I condone such things as this." What a person does on
his personal property, as long as he complies with the Board
of Health regulations and the fire codes and what not, I don't
think I ought to get involved in telling him what he is doing
on his property. If he wanted to fly a red flag on his propexty,
then that is his business.
Now, I would have no reason to oppose an ordinance
that would make it a fine or make it an offense against the
city to burn a cross on public property, on the right-of-ways.
I imagine that that would be already included in one of
our ordinances. If it is not, I certainly would not oppose
an ordinance that would make that a” offense against the
city. :
Q Are you going to investigate whether or not it is
already on the books? If not, are you going to propose such
an ordinance?
A I would be happy to propose such an ordinance. I,
you know, have not had reason, up to this point, to pursue it,
but I think it should be an offense against the city to pry
anything on the City's right-of-way, crosses, boxes or trash.
In fact, I wish some people would quit burning their trash
in the curbs or gutters. Some people burn that and push it
481
PE;
-—
into tl
proble:
Q
book.
thirty-
City Co
was the
support
cost to
A
thirty-
money f£
amount
the opp
Q
A
that, be
of the I
son of a
a farm b
know, an
only in
the cott
D say
ropexty,
Jays .
Ls
ach
1023
into the storm drains and that helps with our drainage
problems.
Q Just a couple of other points, Mr. Mims.
One last point about something you said in your
book. You mentioned, I think, in there that it cost you
thirty-five thousand dollars in your first campaign for
City Commission. I think that is on page seventeen. That
was the first indication I have had of firm evidence in
support of what has already been said here about what it migh
cost to run a City Commission campaign?
A Well, : believe I said we actually spent more than
thirty-five thousand dollars and although this was a lot of
money for a political novice to raise, it was probably a smal
amount as to probably what some people were spending. In fac
the opposition, at that time, perhaps Spent ...... 0.
Q Nineteen sixty-five?
A Yes. The opposition, perhaps, spent far more than
of the Democratic committee, at that time, and so was the
son of a former mayor who was a well known man and here I am
a farm boy from Monroe County came down to Mobile and, you
know, and had an opportunity to run for City Commissioner and
only in a free country like America could a guy come out of
the cotton patch to Mobile and get elected.
that, because an incumbent was runnimg and so was the Shalom
482
1024
It was because of hard work and shoe leather and
getting people. to help you and then getting people to help
you I was able to beat all of the odds, according to all of
the political prognosticators, You know, this guy, Lambert
Mims, who is he? I had God on my side. I feel he led me
into the field of politics and I feel he put me where I am
today :
Q Yes, sir. So you would say, at the present time,
it would probably cost more than thirty-five thousand dollars
to run a successful campaign on the City Commission?
A I wouldn't be surprised what with advertising and
media costs that it would be far more than that,
Q Mr, Mims, isn't it true that you are responsible
for Senator Perloff blocking this Roberts bill that would
change the form of government?
A That has been rumoured in the media, but that is
not «true,
Q You haven't spoken to Meyer Mitchell about it,
have you?
A I speak to Meyer Mitchell about many: things, but I
have not spoken to Mr. Ferloff about it.
Q I asked you if you had spoken to Mr. Mitehell about
this bill?
A Mr. Mitchell and I have discussed the form of govern-
40539
ment in |
a very s
He opera
form of |
Q
form of ;
A
responsi
have. I
nine comn
responsis
courtesus
a thoroug
and the f
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that have
they need
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Q
have test:
could not
1024
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3
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1025
ment in Mobile on many occasions, In fact, Mr, Mitchell is
a very strong proponent of the commission form of government.
He operates in many cities and he says this is the strongest
form of government.
Q You are also a strong proponent of the comalssion
form of government?
A I believe with all of my soul it is the most
responsive form of government that the people of Mobile could
have. I do not know how any mayor, any nine councilmen or
nine commissioners or nine aldernmen could be any more
responsive than this City Commission is being, at this time.
My policy is to try to treat everybody with a
coubreoty-varly dnd to move with a quick response and to have
a thorough follow through and I attribute that to my success
and the fact that I have been re-elected three times to this
office that I am privileged to hold.
I think we are responsive and some of these people
that have testified in this trial that they wanted this and
they needed that and 80 help me, many of these people have
never crossed my threshhold into the office of tha public
works commissioner of this city.
Q Mr. Mims, do you disagree with the other people that
have testified that, in their opinion, that a black person
could not be elected in a city wide race for the City
484
Comisaton?
A I don't necessarily subscribe to those feelings.
People said a country boy from Monroe Cétmty couldn't get
elected * the Mobile City Commission because of the nature
of the politics in Mobile, but we proved them wrong.
a person who is qualified, number one, a person who is willing
and a person who is willing to put forth an effort, the
effort it takes and a number of things to win an ‘election.
It takes a willing hard working candidate and he must be
qualified and it takes people to help.
You can't do-it by yourself and it takes some money
and you have to go out here and not be bashful and ask Suowts
to contribute to your campaign.
Q Are you saying all things being equal that a black
candidate would have as much chance to win, at large, as a
white candidate?
A * 1 think the right black candidate that would
present himself as an American citizen qualified to hold
whatever office he is seeking would have a chance to be
elected in Mobile, Alabama.
Q My question was, the same chance as an equally
qualified white candidate?
A Well, yes. I think a black person who presented
himself as a businessman or as a qualified person who got
I think
3 i
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the people
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. 485.
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¢ | that the black candidate would have as good a chance as a
Il this commmity who could run for any office and stand as good
out and worked and sold himself on the fact that he was
to any office if he presented himself or herself, not as a
colored person, not as a black person, not against white
people, not for white people, but to go out and present
themselves on the fact that they are qualified and they were
sincerely interested in serving this commmity. That is what
the people want, somebody sincerely interested, not who is
the whitest or I am the blackest or I am the richest or
the poorest. They want somebody who is dedicated or sincere
in their efforts.
Q Can you point to any evidence that would support
white candidate, .a2ll other things being equal?
A I am saying that there are some black people in
a chance of being elected as I stood in 1965 when I ran for
office the first time, probably better.
Q What evidence do you have to support that opinion?
THE COURT:
Why don't we go onto something else?
MR. BLACKSHER:
this opinion you are expressing and, I take it you are saying
qualified, I believe he would stand a chance of getting elected
Yes, sir. So, you are not in favor of City government
_ 486 -
i
f
i
e
d
To
b
baing elected cut of single member districts?
A I stated that I was a firm believer that the
Mobile City Cormission or the Commission form of government
for now sixty-five years has responded and is responding
more and has responded more in the last decade than ever
before to the needs of this commmity and the record proves
it.
MR, BLACKSHER:
I have no further questions, your Honor,
THE COURT:
Mr. Arendall?
PFDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. ARENDALL:
Q : Mr. Mims, may we have your book that there has been
20 much talk about? I think we had better offer it all in
evidence.
MR. BLACKSHER:
I didn't offer mine, your Honor. It was
Menefee's and he »nuldn't let me offer it. §
MR. ARENDALL:
I offer, in evidence, for Christ and Country.
THE COURT:
Thank goodness it is a little book.
. 487
MR. AR]
Q
examine
ask you
the Cit
A
collect
seventy
trash p
cleanin
A
about fi
assigne:
are swe)
area as:
race or
1029
(Defendant's Exhibit number 86 received
and marked, in evidence)
ronment ; | MR. ARENDALL:
Ing Q Mr. Mims, I overlooked asking you on direct
examination about a couple of things that I would like to
roves NM ask you about very briefly.
ge Would you state generally what the current policy of
the City of Mobile is with reference to garbage collection?
A We collect refuse. We call it our solid waste
i collection division. That division collects refuse from about
seventy thousand residences, twice per week, and we furnish
trash pick up with another division once a week.
= Q Is that policy applied equally over both white and
black areas?
as Dosa i A Absolutely. :
1 in 3 Q What is the City's policy with reference to street
cleaning?
A Our city is divided into -- if I am not mistaken,
5 about fourteen different areas and we have a street sweeper
assigned to each area and the streets in thosé particular areas
are swept on a regular basis. |
: Each piece of equipment and each operator has an
area assigned and these areas are assigned without regard to
race or color or community or any other thing.
ee TIE 488
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—
1030
Q All right. Now, we have had an awfully lot of talk
I would like to ask you a few more questions.
TIE COURT:
If you will give the number when you refer to a
board.
MR, ARENDALL:
Judge, I propose, in an effort tao sava time, to go
ahead and introduce such material as we have on edeh of these
boards and commissions as to which Mr, Blacksher has asked
any questions. I don't know any better way to do it.
What basically we have, as to each, is a statement
of members and a copy of the applicable ordinance and I don't
propose to ask any questions about most of these. But they
have not been marked, because we had not contemplated that it
might be desirable. to put them in. I suppose the best thing
for pre tO do ...0.
THE COURT: :
I really think it would be helpful to make it part
of the Exhibit 64 and then it will be altogether and can be
considered together.
MR. BLACKSHER:
I certainly have no objection, your Honor. It was
just a huge volume of material.
about commissions, boards and so forth. For about ten minutes,
T
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1030
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THE COURT:
Let's make it part of Plaintiff's 64. .
MR. ARENDALL:
May I ask a few questions and then give them to
Mr. O'Connor?
THE COURT:
Surely.
MR. ARENDALL:
Now, I have not got, in this bundle of them, I have
only selected those that I understood Mr, Blacksher asked
questions about.
THE COURT:
I understood that.
MR, ARENDALL:
Mr. Mims, I notice that on the board of adjustment,
one of the members is Dr. R. W. Galliard.
Do you consider him ready, able and willing to
speak on behalf of black interests and the N.A,A.C.P.?
A Yes, I do.
Q On the audiotorium board, let me run these names
‘
out and I wish you would stop me when I get to a black, if
you would? Charles Bedsole, William Ladner, Joseph Baker,
Robert Brazier.
A He is black.
|
430
Thomas J, Gengo; Mrs. W. L. Russell? Q
A She is black.
Q John H. Castle; Taylor Hodge?
A | He is black.
Q Pr. W. A. Ritchie; Mrs, Shepherd Jerome; Thomas
Bryant, Jr.; Richard A. Rowan,
| Do you consider the blacks who are on there, such
as Mr. Taylor Hodge and others are fully capable of speaking
up for the black interests?
MR. BLACKSHER:
Are those presently on the audiotorium board?
MR, ARENDALL:
I am told by Mr, Greenough that they are,
The center city development authority is one of
the authorities that does not appear to have any blacks on
it, but I would like for you to identify, for me, Mr. James
Van.Antwerp, Jr.? Is he not a member of a family that owns
a great deal of downtown real estate?
A He is,
Q Mr. Ken L. Lott is president of the Merchants
National Bank, which also owns downtown real estate?
A He is.
Q Who is Mr. Don Henry?
A He 1s manager of Gayfer's downtown store.
491
B
A
S
R
E
y
stand
of fac!
an
nes
ns
1037
Frank Schmidt; Gerald E, Williamson and Ted Hackney, secretary
of the chamber of commerce.
Do you regard each of these gentlemen to be out-
standing business men in the city of Mobile?
A All of these men are outstanding business men.
Q All right. Now, until the recent formation of a bank that I believe is called the Commercial Bank --
| Commonwealth Bank, a minority black financed and organized |
|
institution, was there such a thing as a minority bank in
Mobile? |
A Not to my knowledge.
Q I will ask you if it is a fact that a white woman |
is president of that bank?
A Yes. She is.
Q The members or the bankers on this committee are
the chief executive officers of the four largest banks in the
City, are they not?
A That is correct,
Q There has been some talk here, Mr, Mims, about the
library. Does the Mobile Public Library oéfer its services
or facilities to all citizens of whatever color?
A Yes, it does. Q By virtue of change in housing patterns, as a matter
|
of fact, the main building is now in a black or certainly highly
|
492 |
1038 |E
¢ Q
integrated area, is it not? 1 A
MR. BLACKSHER: E Q
I object, your Honor, There is no evidence that it ; A
is and I would disagree, L 2
THE COURT: ¥ 24a sea
I will let him give an opinion. a black
MR. ARENDALL: :
Maybe it isn't. I will ask you, do you consider ] Langham.
the location in a black or white part of Mobile? 3 A
A In my opinion it is a mixed area and predominantly A Q
black, ; : E James C.
Q Are you familiar with the location of the various | 3
i
branches of the library? E are whit
A Yes. E A
Q Would you identify each and state where each is 4 Q
located and indicate whether the area is predominantly black | willing
or vhite? § any, bla
A Well, we have a very fine branch in Toulminville Commi shi
that is predominantly black. We have a branch on Davis : A
Avenue that is predominantly black. Dauphin Island Parkway, { Q
down in the area where I live, that is about Ewenty percent : fire fig
black, I would say, at South Brookley. We have a branch in J the memls
Cottage Hill. Black people live all around the Cottage Hill
library.
_ 4383
1t it
tly
1s
nck
wv
ly,
1039
| willing to speak for whatever particularized interests, if
any, blacks may have in regard to the Mobile Planning
Q That is a predominantly white area?
A That's right, and there is a branch in Springhill.
Q That is the Moorer Branch?
A Yes.
Q Mobile Planning Commission, the membership is,
and again, I would like for you to interrupt me when I get tq
a black member.
John L. Blacksher; Joseph M. Courtney; George L.
Langham,
A He is black.
Q Robert H. Massey; E. Allen Sullivan, Jr.; and
James C. Van Antwerp.
Now, with the exception of Mr. Langhan, all of thes
are white, are they not?
A Yes.
Q Do you regard Mr. Langham as being ready, able and
Commission matters? -
A I do.
Q Mr. Blacksher got after you about the policemen and
fire fighters' pension and relief fund board and let me read
the membership of this to you.
Dwayne Luce, is vice chairman of the board of the
434
adjacent to Williamson High School that there was testimony
about yesterday.
THE COURT:
"Is that predominantly black or mixed?
A I would say predominantly black.
Q Ward thirty-two, Trinity Gardens?
A Up here,
Q All right, Mr. Greenough,if you would get back on
the stand for a minute, please,
I would like an expression from you as to whether
you consider the parks and recreation program of Mobile
is operated in a fair gr unfair amount insofar as blacks and
black areas are concerned? |
A Well, I would have to say that on that balance we
probably have committed a larger proportion of our resources
to parks and recreation to the black population than we do
to the population of the City generally. I think that is
fairly obvious if you look over the dispersion of the parks
and the major recreation centers.
One thing that is a burden to us in Mobile, we
operate a pre-school program, because the Alabama Legislature
has not seen fit to provide one for the citizens of the state
in the public sector and we recognize that this is a need.
So, we provide one through the city recreation department
1084
498.
which
We woL
recres
to act
rate,
activi
are de
contre
aspect
that te
techni
youngs
away f
THE CC
moment
1085
ony which consumes roughly fifty percent of our staff resources,
We would like to be able to devote those resources to other
recreation programs, but until the legislature sees fit
to act in that regard, we will have to continue.
I think that we are very fair, try to be, at any
rate. We recognize that particularly in parks and leisure
activity, it is basically voluntary, particularly when you
ck on are dealing with people's children, There is probably more
controversy there among people than other normal business
aspects of life, but on that balance, I would have to say
ther
that we are very fair.
Q You refer to pre-school programs. Precisely what
8 and
is that, for what age children does that attend to?
A It varies, but generally speaking it is somewhere
2 we
between the age of four and six and seven, depending on the
1Irces
particular program and the particular location. It is sort
do
of like kindergarden.
8
We don't have licensed teachers. So, we are not
rks
technically giving classroom instruction, but we do teach the
youngsters how to get along with one another'and getting
away from their parents at an early age.
ature
THE COURT:
state
You made some statement that I missed a few
i.
moments ago. I thought you made some statement with reference
8%
to the amount of revenue with reference to the races?
A Yes, sir. I said I would have to say that on net
balance we spend probably a higher proportion of our
resources on parks and recreation for the black population
than the black population represents as a proportion of the
general population.
MR. ARENDALL:
‘Are all of your facilities integrated?
A Yes, sir,
Q Is your pre-school program integrated?
A Yes, it is.
Q Mr. Greenough, you have been a commissioner now
for what, three years?
A Two and-a-half, almost three years.
Q Do you consider you have been responsive to the
needs of all citizens, both black and white, to the best of
your ability?
A I certainly hope that I have, yes.
| MR. ARENDALL:
No further questions,
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR, STILL:
Q Mr, Greenough, are you in favor of the continuation
497
divis:
revies
involx
Q
that jy
opport
A
propos
CETA p
n net
~ion
- the
he
tt of
mation
uN Well, I think I would -- I know my attitude and
the adoption by the City of Mobile of an equal opportunity
job ordinance which would apply to businesses which were
smaller than fifteen members?
I think it is fair to attribute to my fellow commissioners
that our attitude is performance rather than promises or ordinances unless they are enforceable and meaningful. There
is not any point in having a great bunch of clamor and
discussion that is not going to produce anything.
We provide, in all of our contracts and require
of people that do business with the city government, equal
employment regulations and so forth,
Q Does the city make any effort: to make sure that
is enforced?
A Yes, we do. We don't have a particular enforcement
division, however, it is required of our staff people to
review these things just as the prevailing wage rate is
involved in most of our contracts and things of that nature.
Q All right. But do I understand you correctly
that you oppose the adoption of an equal employment
opportunity ordinance because it would be unenforceable?
A I didn't say I opposed it. If we vigorously
proposed it, it would harm blacks, particularly in the
CETA program.
498:
Q I am talking about private programs in the City
of MObile,
A We don't run private employment in the City of
Mobile, |
Q If you adopted an ordinance regulating private
employment to provide that it had ‘to be on a fair basis,
equal employment opportunity, are you for or against such
an ordinance?
A : Well, I don't think that I can answer the
question put that way. Let me respond this way, I think
that our businesses in our nation have enough regulations
now and just because you pursue a single oHEBOaR goal you
can pursue it to the point that it 1s counter productive
and I think that is what results in what you suggest,
in my opinion. It is a matter of judgment, I suppoRe.
Q Would you favor the adoption of an equal
oppbrtunity housing ordinance of any sort?
A I think that the laws of the United States are
sufficient to pursue that goal. What I am trying to say to
you is I don't see where anything of substance or anything
meaningful, in our community, would be gained by going
through such a process,
Q Now, have you made any sort of an analysis,
either as a City Commissioner or at the time you were with
perce:
begin.
and r
the 1
Q
vote
will |
Suppo:
who ri
a5"
Lty
>f
ith
1112
1128
Q The difference then being economic level of the
group shown on the second page of this graph is higher than
on the first page; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Would you comment on that?
A Well, again, we have the same phenomena. This is
the data that appears on one twenty of my desertation, again
with 1973 added.
Roughly, the same in 1953 we had a rather low
percentage difference between the two racial groups and it
begins to increase in '57 and, in the 1950's it really peaks
and really so in 1965 and in 1973 dropping down almost to
the 1953 level.
Q Would seu be seated again, please?
Dr. Voyles, Exhibit 28 reflects the ward by ward
vote Gr each of the candidates in the 1973 election. I
will ask you if the opinions that you have expressed are
supported in any respect by the returns there for the blacks |
who ran?
A Well, I think it is supported tathat well by the
returns for the blacks in that particular election.
Q Did black voters support white candidates over
those in their own race in that campaign, in that election?
A For the most part, yes, they did.
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that Mr, Bailey's mean in these black wards was forty-three
point three three percent of the vote in the first election
and Mr. Taylor's was thirty-eight point one seven; is that
correct?
A Yes. This is correct,
Q And that in the Mims - Smith race, Mr. Mims's
vote was forty-three point four three percent and Mr.
Smith's was forty-one point five zero percent; is that
correct?
A Yes,
Q And now, looking at the third of these summaries,
would you tell us, that is headed summary of data, shift of
the black swing vote to Greenough in 1973 runoff, would you
tell us what this reflects?
Rs Yhe first section -- again, it is the listing
of the wards by groups showing the returns for Mr, Bailey
and, Mr. Greenough giving the means for the low income
black wards, the low middle income black wards and then
the total mean which would be the combination of the two.
As you can see, as a total mean of the wards we
classified black, Mr. Bailey received forty-three point
three percent and Mr, Greenough fifteen point three nine
percent in the first race and then, in the second race,
below that ...ieeove
Gary G
Mobile
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1134
Q In the runoff, how did it come out?
A In the runoff, we did the same thing, which is
the second group of figures. Mr, Bailey received fifty-nine
point three percent and Mr, Greenough forty-three point
two percent,
Q What effect, in your opinion did this shift in the
vote in the black wards have on the Bailey - Greenough
runoff?
A Well, it was very significant in the election of
Gary Greenough as finance commissioner of the City of
Mobile. As you can see by the figures, Greenough gained
substantially more between the first race and the runoff
than did Mr. Bailey.
Now, particularly when you consider that Bailey
received -- oh, Soughls forty-eight point one percent of the
vote the first time, Mr. Greenough had his back to the wall
pretty much in the runoff and this was a very significant
shift in the vote.
MR. ARENDALL:
I offer, in evidence, these three susmaring
which I would like to have marked under one number and as
A, B, and C, respectively.
(Defendant's Exhibit 88A, B and £# were
received and marked, in evidence)
S02
MR, ARENDALL:
Dr. Voyles, did you notice any comparison or
make any comparison between the vote of black groups of
differing economic levels and so far as voting for black
candidates is concerned when compared with black and white
groups of similar economic levels voting for the eventual
winners?
A I am not for sure I follow your question.
Q Yai I will ask you whether or not the difference
between black greups of different economic levels is greater
in voting insofar as voting with black candidates is
concerned than it was between black and white groups in
similar economic levels in voting on the eventual winners?
A Yes, I believe it was,
Q : ‘I believe it has already been testified to, but
i
is it a fact that ward ten was split fifty fity in the Baile
- dreenough runoff?
A Yes. Exactly each of the candidates got the same
number of votes.
Q Dr. Voyles, as a political scientist, how do
you value the importance to the fact that this improvement
of the black vote for Greenough &nd the results of that 1973
election is in the overall voting patterns and political
picture in Mobile?
non-pa
dimini
dimini
o03
reater
same
A Well, I think we are running, throughout the
south, Mobile included, to more normal voting patterns,
a situation in which race will not be a major political
issue.
Certainly not tb the extent that it was in the
Q In your opinion, during the 1960's was the black
vote very cohesive?
A Yes. I think it was and even prior to the 1960's.
Q Is it fair to say that the non-partisan voter's
league, for a able, played a part in that cohesiveness of
the black vote?
A Yes. I think they played a very significant
Q In your opinion, the 1973, had the impact of the
non-partisan voter's league pink sheet endorsement substantia
diminished and had black cohesiveness substantially
diminished?
A Yes. I think it has, I don't want to imply that
endorsement by the non-partisan voters league is not
important, because it is, However, I think it is destined
to happen once you get a larger block of voting that is
more voters, it becomes very difficult for any one group
to represent their total interest. As blacks become more
lly
004: —
assimilated into the political system, endorsement groups
are going to become less a factor, following somewhat the
same pattern as the labor unions, but as we know, labor
union endorsement in Mobile is not worth a great number of
votes. All members do not vote the way their people
endorse candidates.
Q Would you expect this trend of individual
voter decision by blacks to continue?
A Yes, I think it wouldy I think individual is
a good word, but I think also there is diverse interest in
the black community that are going to be continued to be
represented by other groups other than one nominating
group. I think testimony by the non-partisan voters
league members earlier indicated that they think this is
true also,
Q What is your opinion as to whether the future
sees white candidates appealing more openly and diligently
for black support than in the past?
MR. BLACKSHER:
Is this a hypothetical question, your Honor?
If not, I object, because there is no evidence in the
record.
MR. ARENDALL:
It is asking him for his opinion as a political
scient
MR, BI
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2035
1138
scientist,
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MR, BLACKSHER:
the
Is the predicate hypothetical or not?
r
THE COURT:
r of
That is a hypothetical, giving an opinion.
MR. STILL:
The question is white candidates appealling more
openly for black votes?
THE COURT:
is
I understood. That is what he would see in the
t in
future and that is the question and you may answer,
be
A Yes, I think they will, I see no reason why not
to.
MR. ARENDALL:
is
In your opinion, if there is cohesiveness or to
whatever degree there is cohesiveness of black votes, the
e
power of the blacks would be represented by that cohesive
ntly
vote, would it not?
A Yes. I think that hypothetically or practically,
whichever way you want me to answer this thing, it ends up
the same way. I think that any group that has cohesion in
the Mobile community, and I believe the black community
; .
still does, will be able to represent a great deal of the
electoral power on election day from the fact that the others
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1139
vote, as witnessed in the '73 race and also in the '76
county commission race, the other vote is split. The
elections are very close dnd the white community has been
very well split.
Anybody that can put together a block of votes
has a very strong bargaining position in the community.
Q | And to such extent as cohesiveness diminishes
through the lessening of what is apparently called polariz-
ation, will that not require even greater effort on the part
of white candidates to address themselves to matters of
concern to blacks?
A Oh, yes, definitely. Because as the group becomes
less cohesive, it is going to change the campaign style of
white candidates in the black community, They are going to
have to appeal to more interest through different ways, I
expect, in the black community,
0, Now, Dr. Voyles, I would like to pass to the
1976 elections.
Did you have anything to do with that election?
A Yes. My firm provided the professional services
for the Dan Wiley campaign. He was successful in winning
the county commission, place one, the position filled by
Mr, Yeager.
MR, ARENDALL:
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I offer in evidence voting place count and turn
out and votes for Bridges and Wiley in that election.
A I might add for the Court, these are the new
wards. I believe these are the first Exhibits with the
new reapportioned wards.
THE COURT:
So they have no correlation to these wards on
this man here, which is Defendant's Exhibit -- what is the
number of that -- those wards are not the same wards: is
that correct?
MR. ARENDALL:
That is correct.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. ARENDALL:
Then I offer Exhibit 32, which shows additional
data with reference to that Wiley - Bridges race.
(Defendant's Exhibits 31 and 32 received
and marked, in evidence.)
MR. ARENDALL: :
Dr. Voyles, in connection with your activities
on behalf of Mr. Wiley in that race, did you have any
|| occasion to determine whether or not the various candidates
were seeking black votes?
508
1141
A To my knowledge, each of the candidates in the plac
one race sought the black endorsement through the non-
partisan voters league and also launched very vigorous
advertising campaigns in the black community.
Q There has been some talk here about the cost of
elections in house districts and comparison with at large
city slettions.
In your opinion, how much cheaper, if any, would
it be for one to launch a vigorous campaign in a contested
election in a house district race in relation to the cost
of a city commission, at large, race?
A. I think it would be very little difference between
campaigning, at large, and campaigning in single member
districts. If it was a vigorous campaign fought by two
candidates that wanted to campaign hard. The reason I
say that, the big expense in campaigning, regardless of
the, size of the district, is the media and the media rates
are the same regerdless of the audience you are trying to
reach,
For instance, we go down and buy a thirty minute
spot on the T.V. and we have to pay the same rate, :
THE COURT:
But do the district candidates address themselves
to the same thing?
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209
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how can they be a pivotal vote?
A Not to the same degree. They still have cohesivene
but you were doing a comparison thing. I don't think, for
example, we are going to see in the 1970's returns from the
black areas where one candidate has received ninety percent
of the black vote as once was the case in Joe Langan's races.
I think we are going to see or we did see in the 1973 - 1976
race simple cohesiveness within the black community, but
nothing like it was in the 1960's.
Q Did you examine Lonia Gill's race for the school
board $a 19747
A No. I have not.
Q And have you examined the data that we introducea
into evidence in this case regarding Mrs. Lonia Gill's, the
vote she received?
A No. I have not, but you are talking about the
school commission race there where I think should be distin-
guished from the City Commission, county commission races.
Q Why is a school board race different than a
county commission race? If we are talking about racial
polarization within the city of Mobile?
A We are talking about elections that are on different
levels. A school board race simply does not attract the
attention nor the finances, the money being spent, as a
"530:
1171
city commission, county commission race.
As a result, it is my belief that races like
school board Fachs, license commissioner races and things
of this nature depend more upon the personality or the
neighborhood that a person happened to come from, name
identification that they have gained through some other
way than say a city commission - county commission race.
There are no issues in school board races. 4
Q Except perhaps whether you want the schools
integrated or not?
A I don't think anyone really brought that up this
last time with the exception of Mr. westbrook, who ran last.
Q Let me understand this, are you saying that certain
elections, certain types of elections, are so qualitatively
different that they cannot be feasibly compared with a
Mobile City Commission election to tell us the voting
behavior of city voters?
A : Yes. I think so.
0 Or is a presidential election primary in another
state qualitatively different or qualitatively the same as
the Mobile City Commission race?
A I don't know that I can really answer that other
than we see the voting patterns. There it is, an election
that gets a deal of attention.
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Q ea Your running?
A : But you also spend a lot of money and get a lot
of name identification that does not occur in these minor
races like the school board.
Q well, is it the amount of money or is it the kind
of issues that are raised?
A I think the amount of money determines a great deal
the kind of issues that are raised. If you can spend -- let's
take a figure of forty thousand dollars on a race. You are
able to penetrate the voting market much better than you are
say in a school board race where you are going to spend four
or five thousand dollars.
Thus, a candidate running for a major office upendin:
this type of money can start with very little name identifi-
cation and build it in all segments of the. community; whereas)
you are going to run for the school board and say spend four
thousand dollars and a person cannot afford to flo that. That
will not buy you very much time on the media. There are
probably some factors involved.......
THE COURT:
Let's take a recess right here. Take a twenty.
minute recess.
THE COURT:
1177
I make for political races and it'is my belief that race theref:
is no longer an issue to the extent it was in the 1960's. policis
A candidate that would raise that kind of issue today would
cost himself as many votes as he would gain, if not more, A
Q Are you familiar with Alexander Heards! book, represe
"The New Negro Politics"? Q
A | Yes, least,
£
Q He makes the statement, let me read you a . 1 we have
statement and lét me ask you whether you agree with it, | about,
"The two elections -- that he has just talked A
about =-- suggest the important conclusion that cohesiveness and img
among negro voters lessens when their right to vote is not Q
challenged, and when white candidates solicit their votes is not
with the same impartiality that they solicit white votes, because
Certainly such as the experience in the upper south and in A
northern cities," is a ce
A Yes. { to that
Q would you agree with that? and com
A Yes, ; It is =
Q He goes on further, "while the importance of one | issue =z
basis for block voting among negroes will decline as negro F
sufferage becomes better established, another basis for unity | don't F
in negro voting exists. Thoughtful negroes hold a remarkably black.
uniform view; most negroes are under privileged, They should It THE COU
013
i
one
gro
unity
rkably
should
1178
therefore support candidates advocating ocinomie and social
policies benfecial to the mass of under privileged citizens",
Do you agree with that statements
A I think that is probably the case that blacks do
represent a certain segment of the economic community.
Q Now, 1973 and in 1976 we have evidence that at
least, in those elections and at least in the ones that
we have talked about, the particular races we have talked
about, that black votes were sought impartially?
A No. The races that I was involved in, yes, openly]
and sipariially, 1 think.
Q Now, you are saying that you can tell that 1973
is not a deviating election from a racial polarized pattcrn,
because it was reaffirmed in 1976?
A That is part of it, Mr. still. I think algo there
is a certain amount of intelligence and logic we have to put
to that. All we have to do is to watch the nightly news
and compare what we were watching in 1965 and '66 and so on.
It is a simple fact that race is not a major news getting
issue as it was in the 1960's. ‘
We don't have people marching in the streets. We
don't have the situation of the conflict between white and
black.
THE COURT:
ola |
1187
ture in that field, didn't you?
A Yes, I did.
|
Q All right. in preparing the extension into Now,
1973 which you have shown us on the chart that you have
presented in this case, what elettions did you look at to
come to the conclusion that you presented to the Court in
your direct testimony?
A Nineteen geventy-three City Commission and the
1976 County Commission races.
Q All right. Now,
primary in the State of Alabama?
A Yes.
a Excuse me, that was "74 and in '72 there was a
*76 there has been a Presidentia Presidential election and in
primary, but you didn't look at any of those for the extensio
of the analyses?
Bt Ro, I &idn't,
Q But you did look at that kind of election when
you were doing your thesis, didn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, in doing your thesis you looked at all
elections in which blacks had run, including school board
elections, but in the extension of your analyses, you did not
look at the 1974 school board race in which Mrs. Lonia Gill,
in 1972 there was a governoratoripal
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1189
Q So you have to look at some background facts.
You can't just look at the computer print-outs?
A That is what my committee told me when I first
presented that.
Q I see. Now, have you taken into account the 1972
Presidential race, the 1974 school board race, the 1974
governoratorial race in coming to your conclusion that you
have made here in the Court about the 1970's?
A No. I have not and, to explain why, if I may,
the last Prasitential race I think would have no bearing-on
it any more than the 1964 Presidential race would; that is,
that it was an extraordinary race because of the candidac
of Goldwater in '64 and McGovern in *72. is
I included the Goldwater race in the desertation
because it chronologically fell in where I was talking about.
The school board race, again, I do not think that those type
of races have a particular bearing on the type of case we
are talking about here. I think they are all together
different, because of the name identification factor.
Simply put, there are no issues ih a school board
race. You win simply because of name identification and
it is logical for the voters to do this in the school board
The governoratorial primary, I did not look at that.
Q You also did not look at the 1970 County
016:
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1190
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Commission race in which Joe Langan ran, did you?
A No, I didn't.
Qu. Why did you exclude that?
A © I didn't do county races in the desertation.
Q But you have included as an example of a supportir
example for your .conclusions about the 1970's, the 1976
race.
A Again, still the fact that Mr. Langan involved
in the race is going to escue the race somewhat, the 1970
County Commission race, the fact that he was highly identi-
fied with the black vote,
Q If Joe Langan had run in 1976 for the County
Commission, do you think the results would have been the
same?
A ; I don't know. He had a lot of things against
him besides the race. He had been out of office for an
awfully long tine. I think Mr. Langan could have won in
1970 if he had run the right kind of campaign.
Q Now, your thesis covered the City Conminsing
election or elections from 1953 through 1969?
A Yes, sir.
Q Isn't it true, if we are going to do any type
of political analyses like this, we cannot use one isolated
election, but instead, we have to look at a trend over a
19
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121
it would be difficult for a black person to win the race.
I don't think it would be totally impossible.
Q But it would be more difficult than it would be
for a white candidate?
A I think it would be. I think blacks are somewhat
in the same position now that Catholics were in the Al Smith,
John Kennedy races. Someone has to win nationally to solve
this issue.
Q Now, you have told us that the 1973 races indicateg
a return to the type election we had in 1953?
A To a more normal period, yes.
Q How many blacks were registered to vote in
1953?
A I have no idea. It would be very slight.
Q It was probably less than a thousand, wasn't it?
A I really don't know, I think I gave the figures
to you. I don't have them up here.
Q As a matter of fact, those figures are in your
desertation in a chart, aren't they?
A They may be.
Q Dr. Voyles, you might want to step over here so
we can look at this chart close up. I am referring to
Plaintiff's Exhibit number 56.
Now, as you remember, this chart shows a
|
518
— -1213
A Yes. I believe I did. still
Q And the R, the Pearson's R, for place one, the mean?
Bailey - Greenough race, according to your figures was a By: A
seven nine, wasn't it? Q
A I don't have it, but I trust that 1s Vat it is. in '69
Q Now, didn't you describe that in your deposition A
as being a medium high correlation? Q
A Yes, it is, A
Q As a matter of fact, it explains about sixty-two Q
percent of the vote in terms of race, doesn't it? on gra
A Of the difference between the groups, yes. that t
Q All right. Now, for the Mims cletion. I believe 1961 I
the R is a point seven one? A
A Yes. figure
Q And that explains just about fifty percent of the Q
vote for Mr. Mims? that y
A’ Yes. { A
Q Or for or against Mr. Mims in terms of race, doesn't : Q
it? | yester
A Yes, except Mr. Mims did so well in all the wards |
and is really kind of meaningless in terms of politics. | a mayec
Q Now, the Pearson's R for race for Mr. Langan in the I A
'53 election was point four one and '57 it was point five | same &
two; in '61 is point seven one, which is -- all of those are | that 1
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still less than what Mr. Greenough got in '71 -- '73, I
mean?
A Yes. I agree with that.
Q And in '65, Mr. Langan's was point nine three and
in '69 it was point nine one?
A Yes.
Q Which those were the two peaks?
A Yes. |
Q Now, looking at these figures, rather than just
on graph, if we just look at these figures, wouldn't we say
that the Bailey - Greenough race in 1973 was more like the
1961 Langan race if we looked only at those figures?
A Yes. That is why we don't look only at those
figures. It would be quite misleading. ;
Q Sc instead we look at these figures and the chart
that you have given us, right? . i
A I think so and the voting returns.
Q Now, you went over some of the relative merits
yesterday of the commission system of governhent
What would you say are the relative good points of
a mayor-council system of government? }
A I think the relative good points are somewhat the
same as Mr. Langan described when he was giving his testimony
that is, you have a centralized administrative authority and
y -
520
1215
one person, who is responsible back to the voters and you
have separate legislative authority through the council,
which is also responsible back to the voters. It is much
easier, I believe, to pinpoimt responsibility in a mayor-
council system than it is in a commission form of government.
I think this is some advantage.
Q Don't you get wider representation around the
city?
A I assume it depends on what you mean by how it is
divided and drawn.
Q Now, yesterday you were asked on direct examination
about the number of white people who would be located in
predominantly black wards and the number of black people that
would be located in predominantly white wards and the point
was made, I believe, at that time, that if there was a return
to racial polarization that the white people living in
predominantly black wards would be essentially unrepresented.
Their votes would be diluted?
A Yes. We say that if we took it to an extreme of
polarization.
Q Isn't that what is happening right now with the
sixty-five thousand black people in this City that if racial
polarization resumes that their vote won't count for anything
A If there is racial polarization to that extreme,
-J
yes, t
yester
A
black .
the po
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thing 1
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Q
why mul
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87
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Br yes, that would happen. I don't think that is the case.
For example, my legislator happens to be black and
sh I don't think I am just disinfranchised or don't have access
" to him.
She ) Q If we go to the same hypothetical you were offering
i yesterday?
A Oh, yes. If we go to extreme polarization between
i black and white, unless the black community could get into
: 1s the position of playing coalition politics to influence
i elections very drastically, it would be a very difficult
sation i thing to anticipate. They have been able to be in that
: position before.
2. that Q Now, also yesterday you gave us a list of reascns
sing why multi-member districting might be preferential to single
ce Euer 4 member districts. |
Do you remember those reasons? You don't have to
nted. | go over them. I want to see if you remember what you said?
A I am not sure I know what you are referring to.
of | Q Weil, I believe you were talking about the techno-
logical problem of districting? AT
ts ; A I am with you.
cial Q Special interest groups and that sort of thing?
thing? | A Yes.
eo, | Q Are any of those peculiar to Mobile as opposed to
522
1246 5
:
Q Captain, is it the policy of the planning division,
as it advises. the chief of police to provide adequate protec- i 90!
tion to all citizens as the resources are available? ! of
A Yes, sir, ie
Q Irregardless of race? ;
A Yes, sir, : iki
MR. BEDSOLE: :
I have no further questions. : of
THE COURT: ] wou
You may cross him. pod
A
CROSS EXAMINATION Ott
BY MR. BLACKSHER: Q
Captain Winstanley, you have explained to us the gon
system you used to assign the number of patrol cars to given A
patrol areas and the size those patrol areas will be geograph- Q
| scaly; is that correct? | fee
A Not necessarily the size. It is on the amount of A
crime in an area, not necessarily -- as I just pointed out, t Riv
you can take patrol area fifteen in a predominantly black : Q
area and that would go about twenty times in thirty-nine, : A
a predominantly white area. Therefore, size is -- we try to | Q
consider it when we can, because a car has to come from one i whi
side of his territory to another to answer a call, but the bid
od
§
1246 8
i
sion,
southern water shed in the southern and southwestern part
ptec-
: of the City of Mobile.
: THE COURT:
f
4 All right.
MR, BEDSOLE:
Mr. Joyner, I believe we have got the color
of green indicated completed or perhaps just started. I
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A would like to look at the various areas using the
i pointer. where is the westlawn.project located?
A The westlawn project is located centrally in the
City of Mobile at this point here.
Q Would that be the east of the Springdale Plaza
vo 1 ‘complex?
ven } A It would be north of Springdale Plaza.
raph Q Would you indicate which water shed that would feed into?
P
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of : A That would feed into the Eslava Creek or Dog
at, ¢ River water shed.
: ; Q Where is the east Toulminville project?
: : A It is located in the northeast section of Mobile.
i
- to | Q And I believe that you have prepared a chart
ne : which we will offer in evidence as an Exhibit, but this a AS ——~,
e bid opening took place January 16, 1973?
| 5"
1254
A That is correct. It was one of the first. The
westlawn and Springhill Avenue were the first projects let.
Q And the east Toulminville project affects a
primarily black neighborhood; is that correct?
A Yes, sir, As far as I know,
Q And Springhill Avenue project?
A . Well, it was considered an emergency project for
¥
years. There had been complaints about ambulances not being
able to get in and out of Providence Hospital. That was
the reason for initiating the ones gn Springhill Avenue
First.
Q Before we go any furthey, relate to ug the
priority that you have in your major drainage projects? By
that, I think you have sndivated emergency and so forth,
would you relate the hierarchy of your scheme?
A when this program first started out, it was set
up And we tried to catch emergencies first and then ve would
catch the drains that served the greater number of people
second and then individuals third. That is the way the
program was started and, Lf I may, I would like to get into
a little background about the program, with the Court's
permission?
THE COURT:
All right.
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help to serve the drains for the Dauphin Street thorough
fare?
THE COURT:
Are you speaking of the extension?
MR, BEDSOLE:
Yes, sir.
A No, sir. I don't think you could say it weuld
affect the Dauphin Street.
Q Moore's Creek, phase one?
AR... This is Moore *s Creek, phase one, in an area of
Kite $nepherals Soncel, St. Ignacious School, and .......
Q Big Stickney drainage next to Mobile Infirmary?
A This is Big Stickney here. It was necessary to
put this one on in to help with the Springhill Avenue
drainage problem in front of the Providence Hospital.
Q That was also on an emergency type of need?
A | It was. It was outfall for Springhill drainage.
Q Texas Street area, southern drain?
A That is this drain right here in the Texas urban
renewal area, \
Q I am going on and on, Let us go into some of the
ones that we have the plans drawn and that is indicated by
the yellow, I believe, sir,
A That is correct.
BEG TC
1266
with the map.
There has been Some testimony in this case,
Mr. Joyner, about the problems with Three Mile Creek and the
fact that perhaps some of these projects that led into it
will cause water to be dumped into the Three Mile Creek
and won't help alleviate anything until we get the Three
Mile Creek problem corrected.
Can you address yourself to the problem of the
Three Mile Creek drainage?
A well, I would certainly have to say it is a big
problem, If you wanted to put it into some sort of an
equation, I think you might say that Three Mile Creek is
to the City of Mobile as the Mississippi River is to the
United States. Sure, if you dump water into it, it is
going to affect jit, but Three Mile: Creek has flooded in the
past and I suspect that it will flood in the future and I
would almost be willing to bet on it.
Q What sort of requests has the city made to
various agencies for help with Three Mile Creek problem?
A well, we have had one meeting that I recall with
the Corp of Engineers about Three Mile Creek. Wwe realize
that it is a big problem and we want to do something about
it, but we are talking about millions of dollars, not just
something like the three or four million that we referred
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to here as a typical drain in our major drainage program.
We are talking about -- I don't have a figure and
I wouldn't even want to guess, but we are talking about a
lot of millions of dollars to control Three Mile Creek. Wwe
approached the Corp of Engineers for some help on this and
for ome advice and we met in Colonel Wilson's office about
a year ago. I don't remember the date, but it occurs to me
it was about 2 vest ago and, at that meeting, we asked for
help. The city commission did, oF Commissioner Mims, and
later on we received a letter from Congressman Saiards that
he ald toy to set Eads up on it, on the oncoming budget,
to Pelp with the study, to give the: doth funds to make a
study of Three Mile Creek,
Q | 1m your pinion, ad an engineer, Mr. Joyner, is
the Three Mile Creek drainage problem, taking the regources
of the City of Mobile, is it one that the city itself can
cope with?
A No, sir. I don't think so.
Q There have been discussions that perhaps a concrets
culvert type of thing be placed in Three Mile Creek. would
this be feasible?
A If you are talking about the normal flows within
Three Mile Creek and the water that is just between bank to
bank, you could probably safely say well this would be fine
1267
0x8
1278
couldn®*t acquire the right of way there or easement.
Q Have you talked about all of the completed
projects now that were built under that second priority?
A "In fact, most all of them fall under the prioriti
of serving the biggest number of people. I don't think
there would be a single ona on here that would be classi-
fied as an individual. It would either have to be an
emergency or a greater number of people.
Q : Okay. I think you said, Mr. Joyner, that the
first one that was completed was the westlawn project?
———
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A I don't have the dates. They all were let within
the same month or two wesks apart.
Q Westlawn, east Toulminville and Springhill
Avenue?
Ac That's right. That was in January of ®*73. Those
were our first starts on the major drainage program.
Qe That was in 1973.
What kind of expenditures did the: City of
Mobile make before 1973 for drainage? '
A I don't have any knowledge of how much trey spent
prior to that. I haven't been with the City all that long.
Q You are giving us a chronology of events, to your
personal knowledge?
A Yes, sir.
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MR, BLACKSHER:
Have you compiled any figures, Mr. Joyner, that
would tell us how much money has been spent on drainage
projects in each of the three major water sheds, broken
down by water shed?
A No, sir. I don‘t have those figures,
Q Is there something in the record already in these
Exhibits that will mallow us to look at them and make that
computation?
A Yes, sir. These Exhibits would reflect the
amounts in relation to the plat and sums.
Q 7 ‘Would those Exhibits tell us each water shed the
projects drain into?
A No, 'sir: The Exhibit won't reflect that. I
think the only way you could do that would be to look at the |
|
|
map and see which one of the creeks it drains into. |
Q well, real quickly, just show the Court which
of those projects that are already completed drain into
|
Three Mile Creek?
A Starting at the Three Mile Creek area we have the
east Toulminville drainage draining into the Three Mile,
Creek area. We have a drain located just south of the Mobile
General Hospital that is draining into Three Mile Creek
area. We have a small drain out at Carrie Drive east that
530 . Cam aE
1280
20
“© mr —— 1281
drains into the Three Mile Creek area.
Q ve have two?
A Park Forrest drains -- that drains into the
Three Mile Creek, |
Q Is that Forrest Park or Park Forrest?
A Park Forrest, I believe, I am sorry, if I got
it backwards. Then there are two drains located in the
west Border Drive area in Sountey Club Village that drains
into Three Mile Creek that are completed.
The Broad Street drainage, which is a project
funded by federal, state and city, drains into Three
Mile Creek. That is the only ones, at this time, that I
can pick out that drains’ into Three Mile Creek,
Q Just for the record, now, are all the green indicated
projects completed since 1973?
A Yes, sir, with one exception. I think that there
is’ one here on South of the Mobile General Hospital that
was either completed in the first part of '73 or just prior
to '73.
Q Now, the problems, as I understand it, from all
of this testimony with Three Mile Creek is that it serves
such a wide area of Mobile west of the river?
A Yes.
Q And that a number of tributaries drain into it
931"
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and by the time you get down closer to the river in the
inner areas of the city, the banks swell; am I correct?
A Any time that you increase the velocity of these
drains on the side you have the water, to the river, faster
than you would have a tendency......
THE COURT: He talking about the basic problem, as I understand
it, not what steps you were taking to relieve it. He is
talking about why Three Mile Creek creates the flooding
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conditions that it does?
A - Well, the Three Mile Creek carrying the volume |
of water, it expands its boundaries and floods. |
MR, BLACKSHER:
It is going to be very expensive, because you rave
to some how widen the drainage area particularly as it gets
close to the river and that is why you have to call the
Corp of Engineers for help.
A I am not sure widening would solve the problem.
Q My question to you is I don't understand why you
would want to build all of these drainage projects that are
further away from the river first, which seems to me would
932
to work from the other end.
tend to swell the amount of drainage that you would get
closer to the river. It seems to me that you would want
A ; wa are definitely talking about some swelling.
I am not sure wa are talking about much more than maybe
a half inch or an inch of swelling, but due to the improve-
ments we are making .esee
~ -
Q when Mr. Mims was on the stand, he was telling
us that it would not be wise to pave the streets in Trinity
Gardens or to build further drainage projects in Trinity
Gardens until Three Mile Creek could be reinforced or
fixed somehow to accept this greater drainage; is that
correct?
A well, I don't know hak to say about that other
than if we get to talk about the project of drainage in
Trinity Gardens it is a real flat area. There is no place
mych for the water to go and it is our aim to try to
provide some outlets for this water in the Three Mile
Creek =-- into Three Mile Creek from Trinity Gardens and
that is the only place it can go.
Q Having consulted with the Corp of Engineers,
Mr. Joyner, does the city have any proposal in mind to
solving the problem of the Three Mile Creek drainage
project? Your testimony is pretty pesimestic that there is
1283
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t { no solution.
ant E A tf you talked to hydraulic experts and all, they
H hate to jump to hasty conclusions about what to do to solve
2g. ; that problem right now. That is the reason we have asked
e for a study and asked help from the Corp for a study on
SY ove : Three Mile Creek.
i
7 We have tried to dredge it and let me bring out,
ng t if I may, Three Mile Creek starts out here at Cody Road
-inity and it is probably forty or fifty feet above sea level.
ty Down here, close to the Mobile River area, it is at sea
level. '
3 THE COURT:
i well, now, that is the question I wanted to ::sx
her 2 you. What is the highest sea level in the Mobile area that
A £ these water sheds affect; is it foeey, the highest?
lace ig A No, sir, I live a hundred and forty feet above
5 sea level and water off of my yard runs into Dog River.
t The whole western part of town here, primarily -- well, I
a : would say from right along in here on up-to: fers, all of
i this drains into Three Mile Creek, the whole northern half
i of the city drains into Three Mile Creek’
: THE COURT:
And that runs from sea level near the Mobile River
are is to what? G
pa a34
1285
A well, I was fixing to say from Mobile River to
Staton Road is sea level and from Staton Road on up to
Cody ROAA. vee ses
THE COURT:
That is out close to the Providence Hospital?
A It is out past the Mobile Infirmary.
THE COURT: | :
It is sea level that far?
A ; Yes, sir. And we have to have permits to drain
into that, because it is affected by the tide.
THE COURT:
All right. what is the outer most limits of the
city?
A From there on out to the outer most limits --
I don't have a quad sheet or anything to refer to, but I
am sure it exceeds fifty sixty feet on out to the western
limits.
what I was about to say there, out here you get
a lot of velocity in your stream. It picks up soil erosion
off of yards and along the banks and everything and it has
a tendency to deposit this silt from stanton Road to the
Mobile River, We have gone in there and dredged and in
researching the records, we otabked dredging Three Mile
Creek in 1958.
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1285
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In 1958 you could take the material out of that
creek and put it up on the hmks and give a larger capacity,
you might say, for the creek without any problem, but now
days to dredge this body of water we have to have permits.
People don't particularly want us to put the soil on their
property and the three areas that we do have places to placs
spoil, when we put it up there we have to haul it off. So,
-
we do try to keep Three Mile Creek dredged and opened up
to handle all the water it can, but we have problems
with that.
MR, BLACKSHER:
You say you have to get permits other than
2) v
land owners'? Do you have the United States government
to deal with?
correct. A That is We ask them for the permit
and they take the application and circulate it. It goes
through the water improvement commission, EPA and various
other agencies,
MR. BLACKSHER:
why is it, Mr. Joyner, that the city has not
‘ ) :
approached the fundamental problem of the Three Mile Creek
drainage situation until 1975 when you went to the Corp
of Engineers?
A well, the Three Mile Creek area has flooded, you
936:
er pm ———
1287
know, all the way back as far as I know and all of a sudden
everyone becomes conscious about trying to do something
about the drainage. I think that would be in *72.
In *75 was the time in which we were approached
and in which wa asked for help on it.
Q You can't say what is going to happen on Three
Mile Creek?
A I hope that there will be some means in which
we can help control it, but I don't think that we will
ever master it.
Q Just a couple of other questions here.
Among the completed drainage projects, you
mentioned the Texas Street southern project in the urban
renewal area?
A . Yes, sir.
Q Was that financed in any part by federal funds?
A. I don't have any knowledge of how the financing
was set up on the project. I understand that sometimes tha
they have revenue sharing involved in them, but I don't
know the amounts or how much.
THE COURT:
Are you going to be with him much longer?
MR, BLACKSHER:
Just one more question.
837
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BY MF
4 1288
1287
1dden You said that the west Toulminville drainage
project, which will provide relief for Trinity Gardens is
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eligible for community development funds.
i
ed : why is that particular project eligible?
A when you gtart looking at sixty miles of drains
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18 and you are limited in funds, you start searching and
looking for everybody that is willing to contribute or
help out with it and these community development funds
were there,
Q Are the other projects also eligible for
community development funds?
A No, sir.
an Q Y am trying 0 cee éavee
MR, BEDSOLE:
We will have a witness testify about the
community development program.
MR, BLACKSHER:
You don't know the answer to the question?
A No, sir.
MR. BLACKSHER: : All right. Your Honor, I said one more and I am
ve
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REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR, BEDSOLE:
838 +
1289
Q Mr. Joyner, as relates to the Trinity Gardens
area, is it necessary to lower any creek to drain this?
Is it necessary to lower the drainage as it comes out the
Trinity Gardens like a saucer?
A Well, Trinity Gardems is flat and everybody knows
that if you have a flat surface like that and water gets on
it and you can't get it off readily, if you will put a
grade to it and give it a tilt you.can carry water off from
an area, . That is what we are attempting to do is grade
it out to Three Mile Creek.
MR, BEDSOLE:
That's all,
THE COURT:
All right. Gentlemen, be back at one-thirty-five.
(LUNCHEON RECESS)
4
THE COURT:
All right, whom will you have next?
MR, BEDSOLE:
Tom Peavy.
TOM PEAVY
the witness, called on behalf of the Defendants,
and after having first been duly sworn to tell the truth,
—539"
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THE COURT:
Yes.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. STILL:
Q I would like to show you what has been marked, for
identification, as Plaintiff’, s Exhibit ‘sumber 111, ‘which are
documents fecaived from fhe office of revenue sharing
{
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|
concerning the 2onrlaiat issued or tritiated by the N.A.A.C.P.
As you. can see, the lecter marked dev, to the
Honorable Lambert c Mims, 1s from the local branch of the
N. A. A C. , Ie is a three page letter signed by Dr. Gaillaird.
I call your particular gttention to the document labellc:
in which is a memo or a memorandum to the file from Robert
Murphy 2nd several other people.
Mr. Miarphy was one of the people that you met with; is that correct? |
A Dr. Murphy, sos.
Q Now, among the things ehat you looked at during
that compliance Eoview trip here to Mobile was * Herndon
Park and Gorgus Community Center that you looked at?
A I did Bot attend those trips with them concerning
the parks. I hao nothing to do with them.
Q All right. I call your attention to the statement
540.2
on page two of this memorandum which says, "Pictures of
these two parks clearly show that Herndon Park, which was
in the white community, is in better condition than Gorgus
County Center. Furthermore, the swimming pool in the
center is not operative and is in dire nesd of repairs."
Is that a correct statement from this?
A I am not familiar with_the condition of the parks;
no, sir.
Q "All right. And did not they say on page three of
this memordandum that even though they found no discriminatio
that they recommended that there be a follow-up to see that
the pools in minority areas are constructed and renovated
in time to be used by the beginning of next summer?
A It was my understanding that these pools have been
done, not by the next summer, but they have bean done as of
this date.
o This memorandum is dated 8/31/73, I believe.
Now, the next section of the report 'deals with
paving, resurfacing and drainage and begins on page four
of the memorandum.
On page five there is the following statement,
"However, it is quite evident that these areas, to a very
large degree, talking about paving here, with the exception o
Trinity Gardens and the Bay Bridge area are being used for
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commercial and commuter traffic, such as Davis, Stanton,
Donald and Summerville Streets rather than for use of
citizens in more generalized residential areas."
The yellow areas noted on the map indicate that
resurfacing Peb3eiis have bosh concentrated on the main
streets of the white netghborhoods. There is clear evidence
that the resurfacing projects were not performed on an
equitable basis of the neighborhoods.
A I would have to disagree with that.
Q You dosages with that?
A it Yes, sir. |
Q | But if you take a look at your map, wouldn't you
say that the yellow lines are primarily in the white
neighborhoods?
A I seem to see yellow lines all over that map.
Q The report goes on to state, "The complainant
elso provided several photographs of areas which had poor
drainage, such as Chien and Persimmon Street which were
caused by the dike built by the city to retain the water from
the river. The city has now agreed to cut a hole in the
dike so that the accumulated Warer can filter into the
river."
The total allocation of revenue sharing funds,
approximately one million one hundred and seventy-six thousand!
042:
1317
dollars, for the installation of drainage systems has been
limited to the neighborhoods of: Riverside, Beichleiu,
Mertz, Maryvale, Maysville, Rolling Acres, Jackson, Bolton
and Airmont. Some of these neighborhoods are shown as areas
with drainage problems, but others are indicated as having
adequate drainage. All of these neighborhoods are predomi-
nantly white. or
Those areas which were considered with adequate
drainage were included in the revenue sharing budget, when
those in the black neighborhood listed as poor drainage were
not. Also, we noted that the city's capital budget shows
that seven hundred thousand dollars was allocated for a
drainage project along the Dog River area which is also
predominantly white. We did note, however, that the
City of Mobile has allocated approximately one million dollars
for the drainage system along the Three Mile Creek area and
the ‘downtown section, which is predominantly black."
Did they bring that to your attention when they
made the audit?
A No. I have never seen this letter.
Q Now, I call your attention finally to within this
larger document, a letter labelled, at the bottom, H.H., and
it is a letter dated September.23, 1974, and sent to Mayor
Greenough.
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) 1318
Is that a copy of a letter that you have seen
before?
A Yes, sir. I have seen this.
Q All right, In that they specifically request that
if you will follow up on the things that they mentioned in
some earlier conversation with you, then you will have
demonstrated compliance with the act; is that correct?
A That is correct.
sate MR. STILL:
when Your Honor, we offer Exhibit -- Plaintiff's
3, Were Exhibit number 111.
dod Now, so we can understand this very clearly,
: ‘normally low cost paving or curb and gutter paving is done
g on an assessment basis, is it not?
A That is correct.
dollars Q And sidewalks are done on a one hundred percent
and basis; aren't they?
A That is correct.
ey ; Q I believe with curb and gutter streets and low
3 cost pavement, one-third of the cost is born by the local
i residents?
this A That's right. It makes it come out one-sixth to
, and each property owner.
044 yor 3 “11 Q To each side of the street?
&
1338
as to Defendant's Exhibit 60- D, which breaks the streets
down by the ward groupings, why didn't you break that down
reflecting which streets were paved by private developers,
which was done under low cost and which were done by venturef
A I was not asked to do that, sir.
MR. MENEFEE:
Okay, sir. No further.questions.
THE COURT:
You may come down.
Whom will you have next? -
MR. BEDSOLE:
Just one further, Mr. Summerall, isn't this map
number 60-E, does it reflect that done by the city in red,
either by the venture system and that done by private
developers in the green?
A Yes, sir. That's right.
Q : But is it not done by ward group?
A No, sir,
Q Based on your observations as to the red and green,
Mr. Summerall, has most of the work that has been done by thd
developers been in the western section of the city?
A Yes, sir.
MR. BLACKSHER:
Objection, your Honor. That is an observation
JST: 1
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1338
green,
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figure. It was, at one time, one million nine something.
The second year was two million seven hundred and sixty-
two thousand dollars and the third year estimate was four
point six million and I think the figures will remain
four point six million, at least that is the published
and for the remaining three years, four point six, four
point six, et cetera.
Q I will ask you this, Mr. Barnett. Taking your
study -- let's say the base study, the 1966 neighborhoods
of Mobile, and the up date, the 1975 housing demand and
needs analysis. Your city planning commission makes
studies of it and classifies houses in these various
neighborhoods, does it not?
A Yes, it does.
Q Take, for example, the Trinity Gardens
neighborhood. Can you give us the comparative housing
standards and the numbers since 1966? I believe you have
them broken down in classifications of some sort?
A Yes. The standard and depreciating and sub-
standard and then we have vacant. In 1966 there were thirteen
hundred and ninety-five dwelling structures in Trinity
Gardens. Fifty-two of them were not occupied. Of this
thirteen hundred and ninety-five, two hundred and fifty
seven were listed as standard and three hundred and sixty-three
546
£1
=:3
+ 1 2
cd
3 a i
as depreciating.
This depreciating is a term we use to say that
the house is not standard, but it can be fixed up and it
deserves to be. It isn't a shack and it isn't that run
down.
Seven hundred and twenty-three were listed as
sub-standard and should be either destroyed or completely
rebuilt. Fifty-two were rebuilt. In 1975 you wanted a
comparison?
Q Yes, sir.
A Two hundred and fifty seven listed as standard,
had risen to nine hundred and seventy-two standard structures
and the depreciating number didn't change appreciably, but
the standard dropped from seven twenty-three to twenty-six
leaving about four hundred units in Trinity Gardens that
needs some attention as opposed to one thousand units in
1966. The figures completely reversed and interestingly
enough there are less houses,only thirteen hundred and
sixty-four, and still about thirty-four vacant. Most of
this is caused by code enforcement by the city since they
started a comprehensive program in 1965 and 1966.
Q That is known as the neighborhood improvement
program?
A That is just a part of it. They go out and hold
T
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es
so
e,
meet i
homes
od
3
ob 1388 F_ 1359
; meetings also and try to encourage people to fix their
§ homes up.
The inspection department will then go out and
give the house an inspection and tell the people exactly
what is wrong with it and neighborhood improvement would
guide the people as to just how to get the best deal to
fix the house up, give them guidance. Better Business
Buearu is there. A lot of neighborhood leaders, city
leaders and experts in the field to tell these people how
and the best way to get their house fixed up.
Q : So it would be a voluntary program?
A Yes. The only thing you might say compulsory
about the whole thing is that the City did go out there and
tear down and condemm most of the vacant rundown shacks.
MR. BEDSOLE:
I have no further questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MENEFEE:
Q Mr. Barnett, the figures you wate ‘yusE giving us
on the changes and housing conditions, what does that come
from?
A That comes from our survey and the original figures
came from our survey using the same criteria.
048
2 eR : | 1360 PE
i one t
Q What is the original, the neighborhoods of 5
: Ee eight
Mobile?
stanc
A Original -- in the neighborhoods of Mobile, I ha
: d
combined two neighborhoods there and call it Trinity
Lat three
Gardens. In the neighborhoods of Mobile they are called kr
E twent
Nelly and Summerville and you have to add the two figures
falle
together to get the thirteen nimety-five. I did that quickly,
: ; seven
but that is approximate, very, ver close. :
Q ; Well, the figures from your up date on the
The o
housing, that is a reflection of 1970 figures?
stand
A 1975. I have 1970 figures. I have them. I didn't
hundr
read them.
six 1
They are also listed, the 1970 figures are listed :
way, 1
in this Exhibit on housing demands and needs analysis under 1570
: :
Trinity Gardens, Nelly, Summerville and Trinity Gardens.
change
MR. BEDSOLE: ;
1966 |
Defendant's Exhibit number 90.
A The 1970 figures. Now, you would have to add these h
1 doesn’
figures, because Trinity Gardens is actually two neighbor- a ;
- or vac
hoods. It is called Nelly and Summerville in that publica- x
ke that.
tion.
demand
For instance, in the Nelly neighborhood, which is
Q
everything north of the railroad that cuts through the
achiev
middle section of Trinity Gardens, the figure had jumped from
243
iickly,
iidn' AL
J
ited
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is
from
one hundred and ninety-two standard to four hundred and
eighty-seven standard and then to six hundred and seven
standard in 1975, just for that portion, and the depreciating
had jumped from two hundred and seventy-two in '66 to
three hundred and sixteen in 1970, to three hundred and
twenty-six in 1975 and the number of substandards had
fallen from five hundred and forty to two hundred and
seven, in 1970 to twelve in 1975.
Now, that is just a portion of Trinity Gardens.
The others are in the Summerville neighborhood. It had
standard which jumped from sixty-five standard to two
hundred and forty-one in 1970 to three hundred and twenty-
six in 1975. The depreciating numbers changed this
way, ninety-one in 1966 and it dropped to eighty-two in
1970 and it dropped to forty-six in 1975. The sub-standard
changed from one hundred and eighty-three sub-standard in
1966 to ninety-three in 1970 down to sixteen in 1975.
The figures that are missing from there, that
doesn't add up to the thirteen ninety-five is the number
of vacant. I think that is about thirey or something like
that. So, they are in that -- whatever that housing :
demand and needs analysis is.
Q Is this a consistent result thatyou have
achieved throughout the black neighborhoods in the city?
250°
A Not that dramatic in most of the other areas, but if
is very consistent with the city as a whole.
Dramatic results have been achieved in the city
through code enforcement as evidenced by publications from
HUD, "Challenge", a report put out by Mr. Papageorge in the
HUD, complimenting on the success of code enforcement in the
City of Mobile, eiting it as one of the best in the nation.
He cited figures in there in 1962 using census figures.
I think they extended from sixty -- there were nineteen
thousand sub-standard units listed in the City of Mobile.
In his report he said they had come in and sheourazed the
city to start enforcing the codes and so forth and not be
re-certified in its program,
Since that time, he sade a survey and found that
by 1970 those figures had dramatically dropped to less than
three thousand sub-standard and depreciating homes. He
coutited the ones that were brought in compliance.
We now estimate that figure is sixty-five hundred.
He didn't count the ones going bad, but that is a city
wide -- that is a reduction of thirteen thousand from a
high of nineteen thousand.
Q This article you referred to is in the back?
A It is in the back of the housing demands and
needs analysis.
et
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136
Q Could we turn to that, please, sir?
A Yes, sir. It is George Papageorge, yes. Here is
the big drop, nineteen down to that.
Q Yes, sir.
A And he attributes it to strong code enforcement.
Q I am reading from the first page of the article.
It says, "Federal statutory requirements were a major factor
in bringing about a change'?
A That is the requirements that we enforce our
codes.
Q The Federal government requires that these codes
be enforced?
A You are required in re-certification of your
workable program, back in those days, to have codes or you
weren't eligible to receive urban renewal money. The reason
for that, the Federal government didn't want cities to have
money that were allowing housing to go bad. They insisted
that each year and then it changed to eighteen months that
the city certify its workable program. That is a term where
you go plead your case and say look, we have done our job,
enforced our codes, and now this should make us eligible
with urban renewal and it did. We never have lost our
certification.
Q | The community development program has a rather
1365
Mr. Walsh about the budgeting process for the city that the
'75 budget did not reflect revenues from the community
development funds?
A Well, I couldn't swear -- I know that this is --
we just got our new one approved. We have sent in two.
You do one a year. I may have my math wrong, maybe
'75 and '76. Yes, I think that's right, and the third year
will start in '77. :
Q Ah your neighborhoods of Mobile and again in your
updated study, your housing.......
A It is the housing study.
Q The housing study, you went through the neighborhoods
and ropented the -- to a substantial extent, re-identified
those areas which were the most blighted; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q One criteria was indices of social blight and
shothar indices of physical blight; is that correct?
A Right.
Q Would it be fair to say that there is a high
correlation between indices of social blight and the blackness
of the neighborhood, racial composition?
A To a large degree, yes. That was pointed out in the
original study. We did not redo all of the original in this.
This was more or less housing, but if you will look
203
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A Yes, more limited. It is dealing with housing.
-- if you would grsph all of those things they would be
predominantly in those areas social problems as well as
housing problems. They overlay over each other.
Q Would that also be true for indices of physical
blight?
A That is correct.
Q This neighborhood of Mobile study, which I
understand is based on some data from 1966, but was finally
|
put together and published in 1969, is the most comprehensive
|
analysis your department has undertaken in recent years; is
: |
that a fair assessment?
A Well, I like this new housing study for what it
is. It is much more comprehensive. We didn't do the land |
use in here, but describing the problems in the neighborhoods |
I think this new housing demands is more complete.
Q But more limited?
We did, as you mentioned, show overcrowding, got into the
concentration of how many people lived in the black neighbor-
hoods, where they are, and we found, for instance, ninety-five
percent of the blacks live in about fifteen neighborhoods and
that almost every one of those were the same as the seventeen
or eighteen most blighted neighbortioeds.
Q So, it was almost a perfect correlation between the
Sod:
21 step
most blighted neighborhoods and the black neighborhoods? hs "
4] reta
A Yes. I think that is what the study points out. po n
= the rt
That is why we picked the seventeen neighborhoods in there. :
MR. MENEFEE :
i tion
No further questions, your Honor. be
& A
THE COURT:
‘
north
You mentioned in the housing needs study -- did you
: : area,
say sixteen thousand persons or sixteen thousand families
black
that could not buy or rent?
we se
A Families. That is based on their income and the
Garde
average cost of a2 new home,
Dauph
THE COURT:
distr
When you say rent, is that with reference to any .
type of housing, including private? ie. 8
KR This is in the private sector. It does include ;
admit
all of the people that are in public housing, because they
: mony.
autbmatically couldn't afford to rent.
THE COURT: 2
5 pleas.
Well, the term "rent', you apply that as to the ’, 5
private sector, because public housing is a subsidizing pi a1
: str:
form of housing?
Parkws
A Well, I have better clear that up. For instance,
Parkws
when you take the thirteen thousand figure ...... :
which
THE COURT:
. 909
Are .
.d you
Ce,
137
¥
3
lA We have here district one which is basically the
step over here and I will ask you a few questions and you can
retake the stand for some other questions, please, sir. Take
the pointer and stand over there so the Judge can see.
Would you explain to the Court the various recrea-
tion districts of the éity.
northern part of the city. This includes the Toulminville
area, Plateau. It is the area that is one hundred percent |
black in its composition of playgrounds and neighborhoods chak
we serve, It goes out -- it also includes the Trinity
Gardens area and == well, it does come down to Sage and
Dauphin, but basically it is the area that we refer to as
district one.
Q Let 5% interrups you ust one moment, please,
Mr. Calamettl. This is map number 2-D, which has been
admitted in evidence previously with Mr. Greenough's testi-
mony.
You may continue, then, with the various districts,
please, sir.
A District number two is basically the southern
district that we have. It extends down Dasiin Island
Parkway. It serves both sides, of course, of Dauphin Island
Parkway, and does include these facilities at Taylor Park,
which is Baltimore, the Crawford Park area and the areas around
956.
Government Street out around the loop area, the area around
Duval Street and in that particular section of the city.
District three, this is the western section of
Mobile and this is the section west of I-65. It is a very
large district in area, although we do not have too many
centers out there. This is the area serving the municipal
park or Langan Park area, Cottage Hill, Springhill and over
into the area off of the western section of Moffat Road
out that way. That is three sections of the city, at this
time. ;
0 If the clerk would hand me, please, Exhibit 62-A,
a Defendant's Exhibit.
You can retake the stand, please, Mr. Calametti,
Your Honor, Exhibit 62-A was previously introduced when
Mr. Greenough was testifying. It has the various recreation
centers and parks broken down by Dr. Voyles's groups and
by warious wards.
Mr. Calametti, do you have a copy of Exhibit 62-A?
A Yes, sir.
Q I will ask you, briefly, Mr. Calametti, in district
one, which is the northern part of the city, did you compile
some figures as to the number of facilities, the number of
personnel and the payroll expenditures?
A In district one, yes,
907 |
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1373
Q Let me ask you this, Mr. Calametti, did you do so
at my request yesterday?
A Yes.
Q The number of facilities that -- now, let's make
a distinction, please, sir. You are the recreation director;
is that correct? |
|
| A Right.
Q You are not the parks' director?
A No. You have a separate parks depatiuent, |
Q All right. Would you please, then, outline.....
THE COURT:
Tell me the differende.
MR. BEDSOLE:
That is what I am trying to do, please, sir.
What is the difference, Mr. Calametti, between the |
recreation director and the parks department? |
A Basically, the recreation department is responsible
for the programming on the parks and in the centers. The |
parks department is responsible for the physical facilities, |
the maintenance, upkeep and that sort of thing. |
THE COURT:
Just a minute.
MR. BEDSOLE:
Mr. Calametti, at my request, did you compile some
268 :
i 1.
figures as to the number of personnel you have working
under you and the number of facilities that the recreation
department is involved in, im the various districts?
A Yes.
Q Please, sir, in district number one, how many
facilities do you have under your supervision?
A Eleven.
| Q That is involved in a recreation program of
| some sort?
A ‘That's right.
Q How many full time personnel do you have employed?
A Well, we have sixty-six personel in that area.
Q In that area; is that correct? Well, you said
eleven a minute ago. What do you mean vy leven and now
| sixty-six?
| A Eleven facilities, your Honor, and sixty-six persons.
| THE ‘COURT:
Fine,
MR. BEDSOLE:
So, you have eleven areas where you are operating
and then you have sixty-six full time personnel working
for you?
A They will be full time and part time, counsellor,
some would be part time.
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Q Part time would include an individual that might
come after school?
A Yes. The athletic program is basically after
| school from three-thirty to six-thirty and some of the center
are open until ten o'clock at night and we have some people
! say working from seven to ten. Q In district two, how many centers are involved
in the recreational program?
A Ten. |
Q Mr. Calametti, is this in the southern area of |
the city? |
A District two, yes.
THE COURT:
One is really the northeast and district two is
the southeast?
A Yes.
MR. BEDSOLE:
In district three, which is the western section
west of Interstate......
THE COURT: :
You didn't get the number of persons in two.
MR. BEDSOLE:
How mahy personnel do you have under your direction
in district two?
|
|
|
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060.
11375
A Forty-two point three.
Q I believe you have taken your records, Mr. Calamett;
A Fifty-five.
Q All right, sir. District three, Mr. Calametti,
which is basically, I believe, west of I-65;is that correct?
A Yes.
Q The number of facilities that are involved in the
recreation program are what?
A Six.
Q How many people do you have working under you in
district three?
A About thirty-five.
Q All right. TI believe that you have made some
percentage figures on some of these for us at my request,
did you not?
A Yes, sir,
Q | Looking back at district one where we have eleven
facilities, percentage of the total number of facilities
tnvelved in the recreation program, what is the percentage
of the facilities in district one, please, sir?
A Forty-one percent.
Q And the number of personnel in district one out
of all the personnel that you have working in all three
districts, what is that percentage?
atl
F
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10% i Ps 1377
and compiled some payroll expenditures for me; is that
correct?
et? | A Yes, sir.
Q Now, in district number one, which is the northeast
he | part of the town, what have been your payroll expenditures
over what period of time, Mr. Calametti?
A That would be 1974-'75, The figure that we have
W | here is a hundred and ninety-seven thousand six hundred
| and fifty dollars.
: Q All right, sir.
3 A That is about forty-two percent.
¥ Q .... -Forty-two percent?
i A v.-Y@8,
| Q District two, what were your payroll expenditures
yon in the year 1974-'7517 :
A A hundred and sixty-one thousand five hundred
ve and ten dollars.
: | Q And in what percentage of that is the total?
: A About thirty-four point Tout.
= Q In district three, the western section of town,
Mr. Calametti, what was your payroll expenditure in that
area?
A A hundred and ten thousand eight hundred and
forty dollars.
i
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2 What was the percentage of that?
A Twenty-three point six.
4 All right, sir. Let me ask you this, Mr. Calametti|
Did you compile any figures as to your year around staff,
total number, please, sir?
A Yes. This is full time?
2 Yes, sir,
A Full time and then part time, eighty-three.
Q 4 ANY right, sir. Is that full time or part time?
A That is both.
Q Mr. Calametti, I believe you have related to me
the basic use by school children or youngsters -- of course,
there are some older people, adults, that use the recreational
facilities, but basically where is the greatest use of the
recreational facilities, in what district?
A One.
9) And have you been out and visited those various
recreational facilities?
A Yes.
0) Would the population or the school children or
people that use the recreational facility, what is their
racial make-up of district one, in your opinion, as you
observed the program?
A It is very heavily predominantly black.
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Q What sort of generally -- what sort of programs
' do you provide at your recreational facilities?
A Well, during the winter, it would be -- they have
play school programs, basically in the morning, when school
is in session. They have various programs for the housewives or the adults who are available at that time of day.
j In the afternoon, before school is out, after
lunch, then you have other programs for adults or young
adults who are available to take part, at that time of day,
and from three-thirty and on when the school is out, then
the program is, of course, geared for the children between
then and seven o'clock at night.
Athletic programs, arts and crafts, music, games, little tournaments, almost any type of activity they prefer
to have.
THE COURT:
Let's take a ten minute break.
(RECESS)
THE COURT:
| All right. You may continue. : |
MR. BEDSOLE: |
Mr. Calametti, in order to clear up a matter, the
figures that you gave me earlier divided by districts, do
those figures of personnel include people that might be
o64:;.
employed in the summertime?
A Yes. Those were from 1974 - '75. We have a very
large number of people that come to work in the summer only.
Q : Would that be high school students?
A That could be, and could be a lot of teachers and
coaches.
THE COURT:
Would that be included in the original figures?
A Yes, sir.
¢ 1 THE COURT:
All right.
MR. BEDSOLE:
Mr. Calametti, where are, primarily, the facilities
-- I guess we would call them indoor facilities or gymmasiums
where are those primarily located?
A The city has gymmasiums at the playground
facflities in the Roger Williams housing project.
] In what district is that located, Mr. Calametti?
A That is in district one.
2 All right.
A They have gyms at the Josephine Allen Ronrtag
project, which is also in district one. They have one at
Lesley Busky Center, which is also in district one.
They have a gym at the Joe Radford Thomas center,
565
S
E
which is on Davis Avenue, which is in district one. We have
a gymnasium at the Springhill Avenue recreational center
on Springhill Avenue, which is also in District one. We hav
a gym at the Taylor- Plaza center on Michigan Avenue which i.
in district two.
g Q Let me ask you this, Mr. Calametti, to interrupt
A you a moment. All of these gym facilities, in your
| opinion, as a recreational director, what race primarily
uses those gymnasium facilities?
|
| A Primarily the blacks. £
Q You may continue.
A We have another gym at the Harmon recreaticnai
i | center in Maysville, which is also in district two.
idk Q Is that predominantly black?
| A Yes. Those are the only gyms that the city
| operates.
'Q Where are the swimming pool facilities located, : i
t | Mr. Calametti, and in what district ard, if you can indicate,
| based on your experience as a recreational director, which
race primarily uses those pools? '
A Well, we have a pool at Taylor Park, which is on
Baltimore Street and that is in district two. That is
predominantly black and there are some whites that use that | pool.
| S66
remeron ——
1382
We have a pool at the Kidd Playground which is in
Plateau, Alabama, and that is predominantly black. We have
a pool at the Joe Radford Thomas center on Davis Avenue
and that is very predominantly black and we have a pool at
the Gorgus playground in Toulminville, which is in a predomi-
nantly black neighborhood, yes.
9) Mr. Calametti, do you have supervisory personnel...|
THE COURT:
Is that all the pools in the city?
A Yes, sir.
THE COURT:
So, all the pools are in black neighborhoods?
A Yes, sir.
MR. BEDSOLE:
Mr. Calametti, then all the pools, publicly
operated under your recreation department and all the
gymiasiums are in predominantly black neighborhoods; is
that correct?
A Yes,
MR. BEDSOLE:
I have no further questions.
THE COURT:
You may cross him.
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to give you an opportunity to point out everything and
then some things I want to see.
- MR, ARENDALL:
Yes, sir. We will make the arrangements.
i THE COURT:
Now, I am sure, with reference to remarks that I
have heretofore made, I am sure that you think you heard
and think you understood what I said, but I am not always
sure that you understood what I meant by what I said. Let
me state that I have not come to any conclusion in this
case and I make that statement particularly in the light of
the next statement I am going to make.
This case was filed in May of last year. 1I beg
your pardon, June 9th of last year. I have stated that I
wanted to decide this case together with the county and board
of education -- the County Commission and try to come out at
the same time. In the event, and I emphasize again, I have
not come to a conclusion, but I am concerned about time
schedules and about time consumed. In the event that I should
decide for the Plaintiffs, it will be nothing but fair to
give the Defendants an opportunity to present some plan,- as
I required by the pre-trial order of the Plaintiffs to give
and so I would like for the city to have prepared, at the
time that arguments are made and I would like for them to be
S68
1415
furnished not less than two weeks ahead of that time -- I
ion't have my diary. I believe it is about the 13th of
Saptember that the County case is set, Then we will say that
by the Lat of September, Labor Day, comes on the 6th of
September, by the lst of September I would like for the
Court to be furnished the City plan or alternate plans and
furnish it to council for the other side.
MR. STILL:
Your Honor, also, if we could present an additional
plan. As you noticed our plans follow sensus districts,
I think, in the intervening plan.
THE COURT:
You may do ©, but don't inendate me with too
many.
MR. ARENDALL:
Are those plans to be restricted to a division of
he city or also, for example, to prescribe the suggested
powers of somebody? |
THE COURT:
That is a good question, As I understand it,
under state statutory provisions, the alternative power in th
statute, the code section as presented in the last part of
yours, that the city can change its own form of government,
isn't that correct, and go to certain mayor aldernman plans
569
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and so forth?
: MR. STILL:
Yes, sir. There are certain forms established.
THE COURT:
I understand those statutory plans have been referre
to as a weak mayor council plan. There has been quite a bit
of testimony as to the undesirability, almost overwhelming
testimony or almost uncontradicted testimony and what
concerns me is the details, how much detail we are going to
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get in. I would say, yes. I would like to have some powers,
but I would like for us to somewhat follow the wisdom of the
founding fathers with reference to our constitution as
contrasted to the 1901 constitution of Alabama, which is so
i long.
But, with reference to what has been determined
a weak mayor council plan and a strong mayor council plan
| and, don't get into too much detail, yes. I would like for
that; I am going to set up schedules for plans for both
parties before trial date in September. Why don't you do
this, let's keep the dates -- I like to keep everybody under
the gun and then it gives me time. If you need a little:
more time to come back and explain, okay.
| MR. ARENDALL:
We will do our best to have it by September 1st.
S70
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1417
Does your Honor what any supplemental briefs?
THE COURT:
2 will leave that up to you gentlemen. They have
been well briefed and I have studied your brief. If you
want to, I am not going to require it.
You both have extensively briefed it and very ably
and since I say that to both of you, I don't want you to
say -- if I ever received a learned trial judge, I knew I
was reversed, so I don't say that in that sense. I think
it has been exhaustively briefed.
If you want to add supplemental briefs, y'all
can exchange briefs and get those in by the lst of
September.
MR. STILL:
Yes, sir,
THE COURT:
4 Any other questions you have to ask me?
MR. STILL:
No, sir. I don't believe so.
MR. ARENDALL:
You want us to meet at your office with a lawyer
and an. expert and a van?
XHE COURT:
Yes. All right, gentlemen, thank you. i
ar gv Re a |
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683 1419
Plaintiffs Exhibit 5
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VOTER REGISTRATION
MOBILE - 1973
F
P
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PREDOMINATELY BLACK WARDS
WARD % BLACK VAP REGISTERED VOTERS
VAP AS OF JULY 9, 1973
1 95.3% 1878 963
2 95.2% 4639 2876
: 3 95.9% 6679 4558
10 99.5% 6285 4192
20 96.0% 1817 1251
i a 94.77%, 1771 1152
32 99.9% 2883 1478
Totals 7 Black Wards 2,5952 ; 16,470
Black Registered
Voters 63. 1
PREDOMINATELY WHITE WARDS
4 2% 2742 2720
6 2.1% 5685 5035
15 2.7% 3893 3324
16 .09% 2167 2077
17 : .00% 4846 4465
18 2.1% 6342 6363
| : 35 4% 2915 2336
| i 36 08%, 5362 3140
37 6% 4058 3140
Totals 9 White Wards 38,010 34,086
Voters 89.6%
Sra
% White 3 gi
PLAINTIFFS EXHIBIT 6
VOTER REGISTRATION
MOBILE COUNTY - 1975
PREDOMINATELY BLACX WARDS
% White Registered
' Voters 65.18%
ARDS % Black POPULATION REGISTERED VOTERS
MARCH 23, 1976
33-91-1 917% 12,709 5.584
33-99-2 3 95.4% 8,664 3,149
33-99-3 : 90.6% 4,510 1,808
33-99-4 99.7% 5.536 1,712
35-103-1 99.5% 8,946 2,784
Totals 5 Wards 40, 365 15.037
% Black Registared
Voters 37.14%
PREDOMINATELY WHITE WARDS :
34-100-4 0.6% 7,760 4,631
34-101-1 0.7% 7.310 3,807
© 34-101-2 2.6% “4,196 4,177
34-101-3 0.4% 5,520 4,141
34-102-3 1.0% 4,244 2,831
34-102-4 0.3% 2,704 2,052
34-102-5 0.0% 6,914 4,460
35-104-4 0.8% SU is.0m 3,330
Totals 8 Wards 44,677 29,229
Sources: 7% Black - computed from census data by Anthony Parker.
Population - computed from census data by J.E. Voyles.
Registered Voters - taken from official Board of
Registrars records.
073
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i Plaintiffs Exhibit 7 . :
t
: VOTER REGISTRATION - MOBILE COUNTY
-Years- Bute
1956 1966 1968 1973 19761/
i % White Registered 88.4% 947% 89.6% 62.2%
§ © % Black Registered 14% 48.8% 64% 63.4% 36.5%
i Difference 39.6% 30% 26.27% 25.7%
Difference
i State at Large 36.9% 25.87%
it 1/ :
H ~ As a percentage of population rather than voting age population
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CIIART I
VOTER REGISTRATION IN MOBILL,
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Thz ntiltude in iobile County toward Negro suffreoge ‘
1:25 heen lzss restrictive thon in some other aveas of Alabama,
such as rany black belt counties where few, if any, Negroes
vere registered prior to 1965. An assessment of a kegro's
Yreedom to register in Mobile is difficult, but it is
nrobably safe to speculate that, at least since 1965, Negroes
Ihave been able to register and vote in Mobile with a mini-
mun of difficulty,
The latest reliable figures on registration by race
are those of 10684, since race is not designated on resis-
tration forms zfter that year. Any projection from 1964 to
¢nte is Cifficult; the Justice Dopartment estimates are by
rtate only and are not broken down by county. Luckily. the
Sovihern Regional Council in Atlanta does publish registra-
tion fimures by race and by county.” Using these figures
ond census data projections frcem the Southern Regional Flan
rinm Cormission, it is possible to project reliable figures
cn lohile registration by race and by ward, These sare
rresented in Table I (page L435) and ere reflected in Chart I
{p2:e 37), which shows the growth of Negro registration in
Mobile frem 1948 to the prasent.
Registration is tut one side of the coir, To register
-~
is crix part of the action of voting, and data reveals that
Lerraes do not exercise the right to vote in as high a per-
cor ce z= do whites in Mosile. For example, in the 1968
rrenidenncrl ajaciion, a rrent-danl of el'rtort was nade to get
Yomrses to tne polls, in an idealistic hope of preventing
976
688
Wallace, rt Jeust, from receiving a walority in Alabama.
Tn OL: Seunty, the turnout for Illumphre,; in the black
waras wns sizeible, as will be discussed in a later section
of this paver, but the falloff between the vote for presi-
dent and the vote for congressian was significant, as is
y
indicated by Figure I. The fzlloff is even more extra-
ordinary when one considars that Nobel Beasley, a Negro, wae
a candidate for Congress on the Rational Derocratic Party of
abana ticket.
Ficinn 1
Regro Voter Turhout . =
1968 Presidential and Coungressicial Races
Total Presidential Congressional
Reyisiered Votc Vota
Ward 1 729 492 163
.aréd 10 2453 2383 751
Source: Qicieln) Coven, Fahmlnk ioe ooo poel enti
GT Dronlcort in) puri Con arnernil Bees Leloodny ohio CL En Ef Li LR eR Ee a Ln ESR ll LR BIR a
Count, loan, 147.0.
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H. CT. Price observed the phenomenon of "falloff" in
black veating across the South, and he suggested some ex-
planaticns for its occurrence:
Many whites vote at least partly becausc they
rcgard it as a duty and as part of being a
good citizen. Once at the polls, they usually
take the trouble to indicate a choice in most
of the contests on the ballot. 'Negroes, how-
ever, have not been subjected to decades of
civic exhortation on the virtues of voting per
se. In fact, their very right of participating
in elections at all is still politically con-
troversial even though legally scttled. As a
result, most Negro vcters go to the polls only
when there is a contest that presents a choice
of direct meaning to them. And once in the
voting booth, lleagro registrants are still auite
likely to indicate a choice only in the contest
or contests that have particular interest to
them.® Pi
Price's observations scem to be valid in Mobile, and cer-
tainly falloff and poor turncut dilutes black voting powc:.
The 1967 tax proposition referendum is another exannle
«.f the relatively poor turnout in black wards when elections
of minor attention are held. In the fall of 1967, & tax
proposition was placed before the citizens of Mobile County
r} to cstablish a temporary adaitional property tas to support
vps ata ~
278
690
74
the $.T.A.0.D. organization is still alive aki well in
Nobile, Prosper ine on attention accrued in its stand against
Lusing. As this is being written, Westbrook has again filed
to run for a seat on the school board.
Atso in 1969, the Republican party felt strony. shah
to demand representation in the county's legislative delc-
gation. A Xoenl attorney, Bert Nettles, filed for onc of
two vacant seats in a special 1969 legislative contest.
1c Democratic party in the county had a candidate who was
supported by George C. Wallace, Sage Lyons, whom thev wanied
elected at any cost. Since two black candidates ware fil-
ing--one for each seat--it was feared that a head-on >
confrontation between Nettles and Lyons would result in a
plurality for a black in one of the elections. Thus an
agreement was reached: Lyons would run for onc place;
Rettles for the other. In return, the Democratic County
Comrvittee agreed that Nettles would face no strong opposition
in his contest. Since this wae a special clection, the Lomo-
cratic County Committee certified the Domocratie candicilces
|
vidhout nrimary elections and could keop their promise rod
Laorun a cinlicdate against the Republican, Bert Nettles.
vie? Taig. Lrriacerent, Towever, could act have hoon wade had
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a sizel.le number of the County Democratic Exccutive Com-
mittee suzrorted Nettles, Thus, the election of both Nettles
and Lyons vas insured,
The voting fell into racial divisions, with Montgomery
and Bell receiving majorities in each of the black wards.
It will be noted, however, that Bell ran considerably bahind
HAL uOAnYY in each of the black regions, indicating the
strength of Beasley's opposition to his candidacy. Lyons
ren well ahead oi Kettles in the race, showing especially
his strength in the leower-iniddle income white wards. But,
both Lyons and iicttles did quite well in all arcas of the
city except the black regions, proving it possible for a
Republican to win a seat in the Alabama legislature, a feat
dcemed impossible until after 1969.7
This examination of voting in Mobile reveals that the
turnout patterns here follow socioeconomic lines in about the
siune manner as studies in other aveas have revealed. Ucing
10
Scamnion's words, "the unblaclk, the unpoor, and the unyouna,® Pp S
9 7
Ihad.
JO. - ve am ~ SEED ss Ye - (FAM » | sandr ron and Pon J, Wiktiorowmg, Too Rood
x), Dp, dH=01x
o80
: 118
692
. The DPeursen computation again reveals the racial im-
plication of the voting. A coefficient of -.92 indicates
an almost perfect negative corrclation of the number of
Negroes in a ward and the vote for Wallace. The econonic
Lreakdown is peripherally high at -.43, indicating that
Wallace did better in the upper-income areas than in the
poorer wards. This is, however, misleading. When thea black
wards are removed from consideration, a truer picture is pre-
sented. A coefficient of .B4 is computed, showing that, in
the white wards, Wallace did Botear in the lcwor-incore
arcaz than in the more affluent districts. This is no doubt
a reflection of the traditional loyalty of tre white nidalo-
class to the Republican party. In any BTL, lallace go
overwhelmed his opposition in Mobile that the scattered vote
for Numphrey and Nixon is virtually meaningless, except in
the Negro wards, where Rumnhrey did very well.
Presidential elections in Mobile have gone in the name
direction as have other elections: race his ercrged as the
greatest issue. To better dramatize thst proposition, a
closer look will be given to two hypoliesos:
v1. Negroes have declined in politic:l power in
Nobile since th: 10a) 'n,
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2. in alliance of the "have-nots" against the
Faves” hat not resulted from larger Hegro
regyistraticn, as V. 0. Key suggested might
occur.
Figure XVil presents a percentage comparison of the
vote in the Mobile elections discussed above, arranged to
1
test the above hypothieses. The percentage difference be-
tween votes cast for the winning candidates in the lower-
income black wards and thie lower-income vhite wards is
indicated. Likewise, this statistic is used to compare the
votes coast in the P=
cw-iriidle income black and vhite wards
(oinps three and fcvr). Since the income of these Groups
is relatively the same, 2 high percentage difference will
shor a voter choice nude on the basis of race, rather thon
CCONCRicCS.
Hypothesis two is difficult vo teat, since the re-
lationship between racial couposition of the wards and
econonic level of the area is so closely aligned in Mobile.
Figure XVIII, however, presents a conpariscn of vote betwaen
the lower-incoure viite wirds and thi: higher-income white >.
2
rd, By eliminating black wards “rom consideration, the
inilvence of race as a factor in tho cueperizon is held al
iy inone, The vliatdet os wrerenion: tv Figura YVIT support
pier einen otearal Lirenath hos docyontied
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SR EA Ry RR A Cer AS
FIGU
Cemparison of Black/White Voting in Selecteé Economic Groups
Low White
53.30
68.30
59.10
54.31
64.28
53.31
46.41
45.04
46.56
43.29
49.75
82.60
53.563
56.51
87.15
33.58
45.70
43.90
l.ow=-Mid Black
47.50
60.10
53.30
55.24
75.22
52.1%
91.30
22.5
31.44
87.438
12.30
27.00
5.51
19.11
283.17
82.19
37.313
36.00
3.71)
1.24
Low-Mid White
48.67
67.37
51.46
65.64
84.869
30.24
. 55.67
53.26
45.73
51.02
78.90
65.85
4.12
81.40
79.82
“54.21
52.861
54.14
73.03
Go RAR RI SOR SAAT Le SR SR AC
¥6
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Source:
AER Se SAR Hp
FIGURE XVI: (continued)
BSrroentogon ol Yinnars
Low Black Low White Pifs. Low-Mid Black Low=Mid White DifZ=,
80.96 78.60 2.36 80.50 78.42 2.08
43.74 49.CO 5.26 39.40 55.18 ¥5.378
45.73 51.10 3.37 42.29 58.37 15.17
73.26 57.15 Ne. ll 58.90 53.27 5.63
9.31) 84.60 edd 3.01 75.91 74.90
8.10 85.80 77.70 1.13 74.90 73.77
Prohate Court Records
[=
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122
since the 1230's. The obzcervation is clear: with the ex-
ception of city commissioner Joseph Langan, no candidate who
has won a majority in the black wards of Mobile has also
carried a majority in the entire city since 1960. As the
Figure indicates, before 1950, the difference between black
’
and white voter choice is not greatly significant in most
races when eoengiie level is held constant. While the Blac
vote was Siohrerubionatoly small compared to the nuader of
Negroes residing in Mobile, their votes vere often important
enouyin Lu be suugi:t. Since 19606, this bax not been crue;
identification with the black wards is the "kiss of death”
for an cffice-scoier in Mobile, The blatk voters constitute
such a visible and emotional issue to Mobile's white voters
that any identification with blacks in Mobile will produce
a rcaction by vhite Vilas. nid defcat the black-supported
candidate. Thus, while the nunbers of blacks voting has in-
creased, the relative importance of the blac) volte is less
thin befcre the civil rights movement of the 1950's.
Race is pori.aps the reuson that there is little devi-
|
ation in veting Lov whites regardless of econonic level in the
IE SE SEY rR IE A be 1 SEINE BL Bi + ied 101 2 Ur RY cam rrivon of tho
vote hoyn-on the lowent incosa and the highest incon vhite
A
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PR Phe Foy IPT IR Fs NOV PAT AW NAN UR RO
* an. yy pia Cds J
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FIGURE XVIII
Comparison of Low/High Income White Wards in Mobile Voting
airy - Bercentagss of Winners
City Cormission : Low White High White Diff,
193; ‘lace Ona (Finance) 53.30 52.40 99
SH onwy orks 68.30 65.80 2.50
Three (Pclice) 59.10 53.15 3.25
1957 i‘iace One 54.31 51.13 3.18
Place TO 64.338 66.83 2.45
Place Trhroo 52.31 33.41 13.20
19451 Place Onno 46.41 51.062 5.21
r 710 456.04 63.14 17.10
Three 46,56 61.75 15.12
L6
9
ons. 43.29 44.63 1.34 1653 place
3 Place Two ‘49,75 . 54.70 4.95
Place Three 83.60 73.86 3.74
1969 lace Cre 53.53 50.78 2.85
Place Two 56.91 . : 56.20 +0)
Place Three 87.15 74.13 12.02
Gubernatorial [9]
1934 83.58 77.84 5.74
N
Ww
Tlact ic
Culavnainrin
1938
(0
)
oy
On
/ FIGURE XVIII (continued)
Porcentages of Winners
Low White High White Difs.
45.70 39.12 13.42
43.90 40.20 3.00
61.05 52.11 : 8.94
856.31 ¢8.98 17.33
78.60 75.25 3.35
49.00 53.40 4.40
51.10 55.60 4.50
57.13 39.06 28.09
34.60 73.14 11.46
85.80 67.16 18.64
Probate Court Records
EE SN Tp = Fr ARI AIRED TT TE ATM Nb YORI MNT TT BRET ——
699
125
R
e
wards. Thz figures presented here indicate that there is
no major Cifference in voting patterns between low and high
income wiiite arcas in Mobile.
4
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Except for the 1957 and 1961 city commission races for
N
Place Three (Public Works Commissioner), and the 1964 Place
Two (Police Commissioner) race, there have been no major
ss
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1
differences in voting between the groups in city conmission
races. Both of thesc races involved Commissioner Hackmeyer,
who, as previously mentiened, attempted a low-income black
and low-income white alliance. He was successful, as figures
indicate, in gaining support from this alliance, but it did
not produce enough votes to keep him in office after the
1957-1951 term.
The 1961 Police Commissioner race (Place Two) also
shnws some variation between groups (17.10 percent). This
/
can most likely be explained by the candidacy of McNally, a
Republican, who drew disproportionate strength from the tra-
ditional Republican arcas--the upper-income wards. After
1961, the local elections show no major difference in white
wards of high or low income. 7This indicates that the choice
| of voters was determined by something other than economics.
o853
700 126
J
The gubernatorial and presidential contests show little
aifforcroa in economic level after 1960. True, the Democratic
ticket in 1960 (Kennedy) and in 1968 (Wallace) did fare beiter
in the low-income white wards than in the upper-income white
areas, but this can.be explained by the traditional support
for the Republican presidential candidate in these areas.
The 17.33 percent difference in the 1970 gubernatorial pri-
mary is due probably to the Wallace appeal to race, which
had more support in the-low-income arcacz thinn in the high.
But, even in the upper-income areas, Wallace won a landslide
68.98 percent of the popular vote.
Thus, this examination of the voie reo cals that an
8
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alliance of the "have-nots," cutting facrosc racial lines,
against the "haves" has not materialized in Mobile, nor is
one likely. Likewise, the position of the black vote in
Mobile is becoming more and more tenuous. Presently,
identification with the black vote spells cxfeet for any
candidate ir. Mobile. In practical terms, this mcons that
blacks have less influance than they had before the 1960's,
and that candidates for office are able tho Ignore black
interests and still be clected., It 3s ironic that the
089
127
5
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civil ri ts movement--vhich intended to increase black
political power in the South--has had the reverse effect in
Fobile.
k
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290
CITY COMMISSION
includes thane tests
Voyles Pearsons ¢
1953 1. Langan 2. Luscher Sr.
Income 38 52
Race 41 . 69
1957 1. Langan 2. Luscher Sr.
Income .6 .89
Race .38
1961 : Langan 2. McNally
Income 3 .43
Race J1 .81
1965 ; Laggan 2. Mims
Income 4 .93
Race .93 .96
1969 1. Lengan 2. Mims
Income : .90
Race 35
1973 1. Greenough/Bailey
Race .79
Ld 4+ Roca vests
Regreesion - thenumbers are circled on the chart. of
1963 Wo. Candidate
1 Langan
2 Mims
3 Outlaw
1 Langan
2 Luscher
1969
1 Langan
2 Luscher
3 BoTLa cme -off)
1 Bail
1973 .
1 Bailey (run-off)
Smith
Taylor
Albert
1 Greenough
Referendum
1963
1973
School Roard
1970 Jacobs (runoff)
Jacobs (
1972 Koffer ( " )
1974 Gill (runoff)
Bg LY
Fleintiffe Exhibit $3
3. Hackneyer
41
-34
3. Rackneyer
.84
.25
3. Trimerier
.81
.82
3 Outlaw v
.43
.92
3. Doyle
.41
.87
2. Mims
71
Data Base
Ours
Qurs
Ours -
Voyles
Foytes Oars
Ours
Ours
Ours
Voyles
Ours
Ours
Curs
Ours
Voyles
Our
Voyles 1960 Data
Clarence Montgomery - legislative race 1969 not included - race
tested at .85
021
a
d
F
A
G
A
N
CI
A
C
ry
Fi
e
iy
S
E
ME
N.
i COUNTY COMMISSION
Regression Candidate Coef. Data Base
& 1968 :
: All Wards 1 Yeager 46 Ours - Cen.Elec.
1" 2 Smith AT " "
" 3 Stevens .06 n x
City Wards 1 Yeager +51 i ”
3 2 Smith . 10% " y
" 3 Stevens .08 » »
1 All Wards '68 Run-off 1 Yeager .78 Voyles Primary
]
”" ” ”" 2 Smith .13 ” "
i " v i" 3 Stevens .90 ” »
E 1972
: All Wards 1 Yeager .31 Ours Gen.Elec.
: " 2 Smith .83 " »
3 "” 3 Haas .81 n n
3 City Wards 1 Yeager a3 " n
# Tey 2 Smith .84 vi "
£ o 3 Haas .82 “ x
3 All Wards Langan .85 Voyles Primary
§ " Mrs. Stevens .33 : "
: " Capps .66 " .
i
8
Additional School Board Races
§ 1962 t Run-off Goode .83 Voyles
¥ 1966 Run-off Russell .95 Voyles
* Testing Income
092
f
a
704
JOHN LeFLCRE GERRE KOFFLER
» WHO WILL RUN YOUR SCHOOLS?
GERRE KOFFLER FACTS:
RUNNING FOR PLACE NO. 3, SCHOOL BOARD COMMISSION, MAY 30th.
i 1. SIGNED AGREEMENT WITH NAACP TO ACHIEVE TOTAL
! INTEGRATION WITH TOTAL BUSING.
2. VERY ACTIVE IN THE MILITANT ORGANIZATIONS ACT, NAACP,
NOW, NON-PARTISAN VOTERS LEAGUE, LEAGUE OF WOMEN
VOTERS.
3. HAS ENTERTAINED BLACKS IN HER HOME.
4. HAS BEEN SEEN AND PHOTOGRAPHED IN COMPANY OF BLACK
MALES.
5. UNDER INSTRUCTION OF ALBERT J. FOLEY IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS
SCHOOL CURRENTLY.
6. POLLED 92% OF BLACK VOTE IN MAY 2, PRIMARY.
MAY 2 BLOCK VOTE
WARDS Koffler Sessions Langan , McConnell
3
Ww STANTON ROAD "8 170 1,071 49
10
DAVIS AVE. 529 123 | 820 87
31
PLATEAU 270 2 282 10
32
* TRINITY GARDENS
PLEASE VOTE FAY 30
OFFICIAL C.B. 1. REPORT DATE LINED MOBILE, ALA.
£QN
eras LY
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i HT iT i Ne iE yh
Reg ce STAM TH A] Te) Ce AAD LB CE RAT md oN RA TD WV pre ———— wre
REMEMBER...it takes only a simple plurality to win.
BLACK TUESDAY
«**" THE CHOICE IS YOURS
A These people seek to destroy George Wallace and the Wallace Team
Bill Sellers-The State Of Politics Mode, Sunder, Mey 14, 1970 Press Register—3-A
Wallace Popularity Assessec
were
ident, many others hers in big flops.
- Alabama feel he will have a
|) Gifficukt time winning another Wallace insiders report that
% or ts 1974, be is having a rough lime try-
Sm". ing to raisy momey in ether oe
The latier assessment is iales and is herefers Raving ;
" based om some recent signe of W lun wavly W Alsfans The third
] a Wallace popularity siippage, for the f suns aoeded P
coupled with an aimost cere !o keep his chow on the read. on phn
SHIN ANIL 4 So nu 4 Sonia of the Wallace fund
sext gw gamarating
barnatorial campaign. Thigers ag some fl iy
Sen. The = wag larly
Wide be when With contributors Bat ©
fund-raising dincers ware heid Sees with a vu
aR esd
gomery. Several handred tich- Wallace jeavis; state
ois were sold la Mobile and aeglected f
shout $909 to $7200 was sppeintment lo
raised for the Wallace cam- These made by the
peigs, according lo sewrces loud Alabama.
WAS IT MCN’ OR PROMISES THAT SECURED THIS BLOC YOTE?
BEAT THE BLOC! You: ind the Choice is Yours! Don’t Vote and the Choice is Theirs!
FA ADV. SY Chum } we SOTRIN, (homed,
x)
HARRY ©
MCCONNELL
|S CONCERNED
WITH ISSUES,
NOT RECORDS,
ts. 15
SPEAKING OF RECORDS .
- oo. i mi Hl ALE Fag
fLangan favors ot least 40 A rs arty ‘tax on
* all County property. Langan said, "However,
{just 40% tax would bei enough- wo Ee
fred dy at 2 : 7h + (Mobile Pros ond Regierer, April 22, 19441
; RS, ps ae
“Langan received following votes in the pre-
~-dominately black words. Sa
: LANDAN MeCONNELL
ls WARD 1 (Stimrod Rd) «o.oov.... 250 13
5 WARD 2 (Toulminville) ....... a ; 55
I WARD 3 (Stanton Rd.) sire ente JO7Y. 4»
an opened ro 220 87
+ WARD 20 (Harmon Park Belfast) ei. 340 10.
WARD n (Mobile Co. Training-
tse PINAY) aes icenrvsene 282 10
“+ «WARD 32 (Trinity Gardens) . ....... Kop) |
ne =m PCT, 11 (Shepard Loke) ov. iv. 98 8
A. re 3738 270
"". PERCENT OF VOTE (93.2) (6.3)
"*% rom official Mobile Cownty Democratic Primary Convoss signed by Jeii C.
Mims, Chairman of Mobis County Democranc Exacwhve Commireel
Longan was a City Commissioner the last
time YOUR city soles tax was raised.
: 3 [October |, 19633
be Y
BELIEVE ALL THE PROMISES YOU WANT
THESE ARE THE FACTS!
ON MAY 10...VOTE TO PROMOTE McCONNELL
. PLACE 3 MOBILE COUNTY COMMISSION
PD. POL ADY. BY GEORGE A. TOUIMIN, MOBILE, ALA.
295
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Las ST AISS pig 1954-1969 > ? Mores By Langan To Mobile Housing Baord
T THIS PAIR RUN |
NOTHER 4 YEARS? - th a 25d ALY ties
DBI EERANKS HH AMO Ti NATION'S CITIES IN MORTGAGE FORECLOSURES,
13 BANKR BICY:PROCEEDINGS, DEBT AND CRIME AND ARSON RATE! Pik host 1S THAY PROGRESS? :
Yr dc
CHANGE. Ji: eran GET BEHIND oB Al LEY: FOR NEW LEADERSHIP & REAL PROGRE SS
AMF Mera RIL re i mae wae 3 c
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—
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3714
JOE LANGAN'S EPISTLE TO THE VOTERS OF WARD 10
"Then the voters were herded into the voting booths to be counted, the blind,
the mutes, the dead, and the illitrates. And lo, 99% bore the brand of
Joe Langan."
Then the FAITHFUL REJOICED. And they swarmed in the recreation center holding
their Ward Tabulations aloft and crying out in a loud voice. "See how I
delivered my ward." There is no Commissioner but Joe langan and my cousin,
Teddy, is his president.”
The results were confirmed and the computers had ceased to compute, the h
politicians started forth on their pilgrimage to the Avenue... to veceive
the blessings of the chief politician and to pluck the sacred fruit of the
tree of patronage. .
But when they arrived they found Joe sitting disconsolately on a mountain of
morning papers. And the music was stilled, no songs filled the air, and only
the mournful howl of a few was heard in the land.
Then the ward heelers drew around apd questioned him saying, "Wherefore art
thou sad? Thou has overwhelmed thine enemies, yea even unto 99 percent in
the colored wards.
But General Joe answered them saying, "BUT WHAT OF THE 17 WHO AMONG YOII HAVING
LOST A SHEEP FROM HIS FLOCK, does not leave the 99 and go in search of the one
that is lost,
Then Mr. !=tro spoke in the voice of thunder saying,”I shall build my cousins
Creat Socisty fn which there will be no percentages, no poverty, and no vehicle
inspection stations, but possibly a 200. :
Where the humblest citizens will have the same opportunities as Mr. Bill Crane,
and Mr. Floyd Pate. Where the last ghall be first, and the first shall be
first and all others before and after him shall be first and Mobile County shall
have 50 parks, 300 fire stations, 10 thousand miles of streets, 20 libraries, 6
tunnels, and 10 airports, and we shall receive 200 million dollars in poverty
funds from my cousin, Teddy. WE SHALL EMBRACE ALL MEN AND WOMEN, BLACK OR
WHITE, REGARDLESS OF PREVIOUS POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS."
But the ward heelers murmured against him for they feared if all partook, the
Pork Barrel would soon be empty and they might be forced to help pay for the
filling of it again, Then Mr. Metre knowing rheir thoughts, spoke to them
saying, "OH, YE OF LITTLE FAITH, did ] not cause the NAACP to lie down with
the SILK STOCKING WARDS? Pid I not eenvince the pedple of Mobile County that
my TAX AND SPEND POLICY is the best way to balance the hudget and not add any
NEW TAXES and yet still have more PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS. All these miracles
of PROGRESS I have perfprmed and YET YOU STILL DOUBT? COME LET US REASON
TOGETHFR OR ELSE!!!!
293
Yor
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—
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J REGIS THR
d the Nation Since 1813
INLAND. ALA |. FRIDAY MORNING. JUNE 25, 1976
{ Numerous cross
~ burnings spread
10c DAILY. 80c WEEKLY. PLUS TAX
across Coast area
A rash of cross burnings Wednesday
night in predominantly black
noighborhoods from Mobile to Pen
sacola. Fla. brought a promise from
Baldwin County Sheriff Thomas
"Buck" Benton “to stop it one way or
another
“Burning crosses is the most
cowardly thing | know of— | just
deplore it,” Benton said, adding, "J
plan to take some action.” He added
that anyone caught burning crosses in
Baldwin County would be prosecuted
State Troopers reported at least 25
crosses were sel alire mn the two
southernmost Alabama counties
Mcanwhile, at least seven crosses
were reported bummed in Escambia
County, Fla. in front of black churches
and organizations.
The Escambia County burnings
came within hours of a school board
decision relating to the mckname for
“acially-troubled Ewambia County
High School
Henton said one inc ident also involv-
rd <hots being fired into the air, and
0): cross was burmed mn front of the
home of a white family living in a
predominantly black neighborhood
Henton said he wa unsure whether
ar not the Ku Klux Kian was involved
in the cross burnings, but he said the
incidents were apparently a “show of
strength’ by some elements in the
area
Nn arresicx or injuries were
reported Officials sard they are
hampered because there 1s no law
prohibiting cros: burmings in
Alabama
Most of the crosses, reportedly four
in hive fect tall. were wrapped in
burlap and douxed with kerosene
before they were set ablaze
Reports placed the burnings at
Fairhope. Tensaw, Whitehouse Forks,
t'rossroads, Clay City, Marlowe
Foley, Beulan Heights. Magnolia
Springs and Mullet Point Park in
Baldwin County. Mullet Pmnt 1s an
F.istern Shore public heach papular
among Baldwin's bla ke
Mobile police said one cross was
hurned on Avenue A off Cottage Hill
Road in front of a black man’s house.
In Pensacola. targets included
churches, schools, offices of the
Southern Christian Leadership
Conference(SCLC), the studios of
television station WEAR-TV, and the
home of a WEAR reporter.
The reporter, Ken Larson, and a
black cameraman were reportedly
refused admission to 2 Ku Klux Klan
meeting recently
Earlier Wednesday, the Escambia
County School Board ruled it could
change the nickname or symbol of the
high school if it felt such action would
be in the public interest. Once the
name or symbol was adopted. only the
«hool board could change it.
The school nickname first was an
1ssue in 1975 when black students ob-
jected to the name Rebels and the
Unniederate Mag as the school symbol.
A federal judge's order banning the
name was appealed by the school
hoard, and racial disturbances ensued
wn the arca
Meanwhile, students voted fo
change the name to Raiders, which
stuck until an appellate court over-
turned the original ban. Another stu-
dent vote retained the name Raiders,
but racial disturbances which follow-
ed injured several students
_ The school buard. in emergency ac-
tion, changed the name to Patnots m
March, and the decision Wednesday
solidified that chioce of nicknames
e Brooks, an SCLC spokesman
in Atlanta, called Pensacola “one of
the most racist cities in America’ and
claimed that local officials condoned
the cross burnings
“It's a tragedy that this kind of
thing would go on in 1976. and the only
group I've ever known to burn crosses
1s the Ku Klux Klan,” Brooks said
A Klan spokesman denied any ad-
vance knowledie of the cross bur-
nings
Ihe Southern Christian Leadership
Conference asked for an FHI]
investigation of the cross-burning
Wednesday in front of the civil rights
group's office in Pensacola
“We consider this act a blatant
attempt by racists in Pensacola and
Escambia County to intimidate and
harass our chapter officials and the
black community,” SCLC presicent
Ralph Abernathy said in Atlanta in a
telegram sent Thursday to US Auty.
Gen. Edward Levi.
Brooks said Pensacola SCLC
chapter president FL Henderson saw
three white men setting fire to a cross
as Henderson approached the
building. but the men fled before he
got there
CY TY
COMMITTEES 10
9 PLAINUIVFS' EXKIIBIT
Plaintiffs Exhibit 64 COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Total Total Prior Prior Black .
Black Members; Mcombers Mambers
1 | BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT % 1 7 9 0
2 | AIR CONDITIONING BOARD -T' 0 5 2
3| ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD 0 5 6 9
4 | AUDITORIUM BOARD 13 12 9 2
5 ! voBILE BEAUTIFICATION BOARD nh 3 28 17 0
6 | MOBILE BI-CENTENNIAL COMMUNITY COMMITTEE 3 46 0 0
7 | CENTER CITY DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY 5 0 1! 0 0
8 | BOARD OF EXAMINING ENGINEERS 0 3 0 0
9 | BOARD OF ELECTRICAL EXAMINERS 0 4 3 0
10 | CITIZENS ADVISORY GROUP FOR THE MASS TRANSIT TECHNICAL STUDY afl og 8 0 0
11 | CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE - DONALD-CONGRESS, LAWRENCE ST. & THREE MILE i
CREEK FREEWAY . = 11 15 0 0
1° | CODES ADVISORY COMMITTEE 0 17 0 0
13 | COMMISSION ON PROGRESS : 9 21 0 0
14 | EDUCATIONAL BUILDING AUTHORITY, INC. 0 3 0 0
15 | MOBILE AREA PUB HIGHER EDUCATION FOUNDATION INC. 0 6 0 0
16 | FINE ARTS MUSEUM OF THE SOUTH AT MOBILE 1 21 20 1
17 | FORT CONDE PLAZA DZVELOPMENT AUTHORITY 0 4 1 0
18 | MOBILE HISTORIC DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION 0 52 61 0
19 | INDEPENDENCE DAY CELEBRATION COMMITTEE : 1 “ 14 0 0
| :
‘
i Ee EE EE EES Fre 2 porn wr RR
CITY
COMMITTEES 2
20
21
22
2r
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
k} |
32
33
34
3s
36
37
38
4 3 J
INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT BOARD gl
MALAGA DAY COMMITTEE fuer! Nat
MOBILE HOUSING BOARD *~ ©
) MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - PSYCHIATRIC ~~
“a
MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - TRANQUILAIRE vf
PORT CITY MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD
MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - SPRINGHILL
MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD OF THE CITY OF MOBILE
MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - SECOND
MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD
MOBILE LIBRARY BOARD
g ©
GREATER MOBILE MENTAL HEALTH-RETARDATION BOARD
t
PIER AND MARINA COMMITTEE ~~~ p="
go
MOBILE PLANNING COMMISSION --%
POLICEMEN AND PIREPIGHTERS PENSION AND RELIEF FUND BOARD
bows?
MOBILE TREE COMMISSION
AS
NEIGHBORROOD IMPROVEMENT COUNCIL
PLUMBERS EXAMINING BOARD : ~~
RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD ‘ * ..
C
O
O
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©
0
©
OO
+
Oo
©
©
$d
©
0
m
OO
©
wm
pe
t
PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT
COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Total
M
15
29
22
n
u
Ww
®
OO
oO
oo
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0
0
©
.
©
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PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT
op CITY
¥ COMMITTERS COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Co . Total Total Prior Prior Bla
Black Members Members Mamhers
1 s 0 0
39 SOUTH ALABAMA REGIONAL PLANNING oS
aC, [
/i
40 BOARD OF WATER & SEWER COMMISSIONERS ~*~ 3 5 7 0”
41 EMPLOYEES INSURANCE ADVISORY BOARD zy 0 10 0 0
>
-
42 | MOBILE COUNTY HOSPITAL BOARD ~~ 1 3 0 0
a
43 FRANK S. KEELER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL el 0 2 0 0
44 | ARTS HALL OF FAME COMMITTEE ot 0 1 0 0
»
vr
45 PUBLIC EDUCATION BUILDING AUTHORITY | 0 3 0 0
46 | EDUCATIONAL BOARD ¢ -~* 0 9 0 G
TOTALS 47 461 179 6
> 5
= ’
3 av
SUMMARY: =~ 10.1% of present appointments are black. -
- =~ B.2% of all appointments to active committees are black. 12
- 7.5% of all appointments to active and inactive committees are black.
- If 2 committees, numbers 11 and 13, are excluded the other 44 active
committees have 6.32 black members.
- 29 of 46 committees (63%) have no blacks.
~ Only 3 of 46 committees, numbers 4, 11 and 13, have blacks as 25% or
more of their membership.
RR - a Er pe L3 ww
SAA dpi pc pa
PU el ne Pe PHA gi nel
PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT rp ————————
Vo RSL INACTIVE COMMITTEZE MEMBERS
Total Total Prior ‘Prior Black
Black Members Members :
A | AMBULANCE ADVISORY comMITTER 0 5 0 0
B | ANIMAL SHELTER BORD 0 ) 0 0
C | CHILDREN'S THEATR: ADVISORY COMMISSION 0 9 0 0
D | MAYOR'S COMMITTEE ON RECIPROCAL SWITCHING 0 6 0 0
BR / MOBILE AiRPORT PLANNING ADVISORY COMMITTEE 5 120 0 0
: P | MOBILE COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT PLANNING AGENCY SUPERVISORY BOARD 0 2 0 0
G | MOBILE INSURANCE ADVISORY BOARD 0 12 0 0
~J
: a.
TOTAL 5 163 0 0 0
891
PN | TW Tuk 3 ¥ pi ’
. . ae . fone © B : * . ¢ . Fo : 7 SR . A pi os 3
IN THE cIrcuzT cour OF oe X: ‘spECIAL REPORT! ‘oF THE. ht
MOBILE county, ALABAMA or Y. MARCH, - APRIL, 1976
i i GRAND JURY oF’ ‘HOBILE ‘County’
Aa
We the March’ - - hertl, 1976 Grand Jury of 1 Mobile
county, Alabama, after having been recalled ‘specially to’
consider evidence gathered by the Mobile county. District
‘Hetorney’ s office regarding eight ®)’ City of! Mobile 5
Policemen and Glenn L. ‘Diamond, do hereby submit to the court
our special 'Yeport and band to the Court 1 {ndictments.
. On April 224 - 1976, this Grand Jury was ‘called into
session by the Honorable Robert t. ;Hodnette; Circuit Fudge,
and ordered to report. on April 23, i976 at 10: 00. A.M.
"At that time Judge Hodnette instructed this Grand Judy -
£1; consider and delve into evidence ‘presented to us by
the Mobile County District Attorney. The plateice Attorney
has presented to us the result of a diligent and honest
investigation into the facts and circumstances surrounding
" the incident. After carefully and conscientiously considering’
all of the evidence from Glenn L. Diamond, his companions
and the accused police officers, we feel compelled and have
the responsibility to make certain observations, suggestions,
and recommendations to the Courts and'to the governing body
of the City of Mobile, particulary the Mobile City Police 4
SA, 4
Department. : righ Ll, i
: The law abiding citizens of this community cannot
condone the event which erzupted on the night of March
28, 1976. We feel that in these dave and times where
crime runs rampant a strong, tough approach must be taken
to asprénend ths criminal eletent. Equally thbortant
la? enforcement officers must deal with the criminal
in a professional manner.
€0o
892
ve. want to ma it clear’ that we feel’ the ‘the *, 3
oN ATELY CURT IL ani EE
: vast majority of our! county" s daw enforcement ‘officers’ >
. H FR -¥"
s JER ; : dedicate their lives to professional and conscientious
work in protecting our’ ‘citizen’ 8 ives, and property. | 51
F
R
. This incident An our’ opinion represents the ‘deeds of aa
a Yery small, small group of men who exceded their
Tawtul authority. ‘and. ‘acted in a. totally. trresponsible Ga
‘manner. They not only did not uphold the Law but ei
: & apparently violated fhe very law that “they swore to uphold.
This incident shoula not. reflect An any; manner on all of i
he ry 0
t: Taw enforcement. As ‘a matter of: fact, we Jagatn recognize
Vey woe
[ana commend the overvhelning majorite ot our aw enforcement AY
R
w
officers. The activities which occurred on the night of. March
3 Tm *% Tart
Fas, 1976, have. stained ‘the very uniform. of Conscientious LR
law, Snforcement officers. our’ Communi ty mist, not - let: these
; acts An any vay affect their codpuration ad support. of
law enforcement. Thy.
. “We. feel that the gone public should realise “that
the men charged are not supervisors.’ They are patrolmen
out on the beat. We heard evidence’ from both the victim and
&: nonbee’ of the, “\ accused police officers. The officer's
' 3 tnaicates to us that their illegal actions were
not random, spur of the moment acts ‘taken in violation of
: their supervisor’ 8 orders. On the contrary; these men
Rk have indicated to us that their supervisors not only accepted but urged these patrolmen to commit these improper, irresponsible
acts. We feel these few policemen would not have followed i
© this {rresporaible course of action ‘had they not been :
encouraged and at times compelled to commit the assault by
certain very few supervisory offiers. Although we the Grand
Jury feel that this unfortunate supervisory problem cannot
excuse individual illegal misconduct, we feel that these officers
hd . ] .
. would not have engaged in these activities if their supervisory
893
To solve this deplorable situation and. to insure that
future illegal acts ‘do not occur, we recommend and urge
that the city Commission thoroughly investigate the
police department, particulary the patrol division. This
investigation should be made by officers who are charged
with one duty: to seek the truth, b
Also, we heard testimony from the accused officers
that many supervisory vacancies exist. They must be filled
by qualified, dedicated law enforcement personnel. For that
reason, we suggest that- the City of Mobile request the
Mobile County Personnel Board to aininiotad: the appropriate
examinations and to hire .0xr promote the most: qualified
individuals. to ‘the available Jobs. Possibly ‘better supervision
Fond have prevented ‘the actions of these’ few men on "that :
fe: particilar: hight.: ga od tion
vy a grand Jury we are well aware that our dity is not
only to indict the guilty but also. to exonerate the innocent.
After hearing’ all the "evidence r. we believe that three of
the suspended patrolmen are svdely not guilty. These men
were not involved in this anfortunate event. They wets
victims of circumstance. _ They not only did not participate
in it bist they reported the incident to thats supervisors.
Therefore we recommend that the city Commission end their
suspension and reinstate. them as patrolmen. Also we believe
hey should recede » back pay to cover the period during which
they were ‘suspendsa.. ;
i .
As “the Grand’ Jury , we are charged v with the Quty of
Ya wg.
considering all the evidence. We feel we have put aside all
preconceptions we had while considering this evidence.
ny ord : ,. Wis eh
Furthermore | “we mist, say that this case constituted the
GLE Teg a %
. bar, 30 =.
most, trying : and alegicue days of our term as Grand Jurors.
: i } 07 : ie
as ~. . ra ’ "
l
l
K
E
S
1
tc
Finally we wish to commend the District Attorney and his
: staff for taking the sift, immediate, and decisive action
to honestly and objectively uncover, develop and present
the hard cold facts.
We wish now to be put into recess until recalled by .
this Court or until another Grand Jury is empanelled.
frunetl J Brace
FOREMAN 2
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NEWS
OCA LY LCT Al | A US IN
ng the South and
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a i CHICKASAW. SARALAND.
LEPHONE 4131881 I
Ci ity searching;fe
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By DAVID SPEAR
Press Register Reporter
In the wake of the worst officer accountability crisis
in the history of the Mobile Police Department, city of-
ficlals Friday began searching for means to rebulld
the devastated and disgruntled 300-man force.
A total of 16 officers have been disciplined in the last
50 days and Police Commissioner Robert B. Doyle Jr.
and Police Chief Don Riddle conceded Friday that
department morale "has never been worse."
“We know the men are upset, unhappy and con-
fused,” Doyle said, “This has been a very hard time
for all of them and all of us. The original disciplinary
action in April (in which one officer was fired and
seven suspended) was difficult enough and this (Thurs-
day's firing of two officers and the suspension of six
others) have just made a bad situation worse."
“But as tragic and distasteful as it has all been,”
Doyle continued, ‘‘it had to be done and it has been
done. Now, we have got to get the department moving
again.”
The embattled Riddle, wis was a close personal
friend of several of the men he was forced to censure,
echoed Doyle's remarks,
“You don't know how badly I hate all of this,” Riddle
sald, "but what has happened, as bad as it Is, is over
ind now, we've got lo address ourselves to the present
situation and make every effort to regroup as quickly
4 possible and begin doing our jobs again.”
Earlier Friday, Doyle made public the reasons Thur-
day's firings of Sgt. Ronald K. Mair and Patrolman
{enry J. Booth and suspensions of Lts. Walter Milne
'nd Clarence J. Lund, Sgt. Thomas Lee, and
‘atrolmen Robert Duff, Leroy Steck, and John Boone.
F pe
Lf SR
Maly _was. Jired for nl resort abusive treat.
ment of a citizen by Boone, for,improper supervision,
violations of citizens’ constitutional rights, neglect of
duty, and encouragement o 1 Jegal actions by men In
his command. “ad
Booth was dismissed for atnitnt of citizens on
several occagions from December, 1974, until last
January, ‘and for an incident in April In which he
reportedly took persons into ‘custody, transported
them to an {zolated area, and. left them.
+ Milne’ drew a 30-day suspension for falling to take |
disciplinary action in connection with abusive treat-
ment of a citizen by Duff and, on another occasion, by
an unnamed officer. -%
Lund was suspended for EY) days for reporting for
* duty gn several occasions “with the odor of alcohol on
your: breath,’ for failing ‘to provide proper super-
“vision, and’ for Sneciraging illegal actions by men in
his om ¥ 0 g TL
USL “3
Leo ‘wid ironically Is the Mobile and Alabama
Jaycees’ “‘Quistanding Law. Enforcement Officer of
the Year” and the Mobile Exchange Club's *'1978
Policeman of the Year," was suspended for 20 days for
failing to report an incident Inyolving Boone, and for
parlicipation in the probable ‘yiolation of a citizen's
constitutional rights immedistely following that In-
cident, *
Duff drew a 13-day ARIA fo for mistreating a
person he had taken into custody last month.
Sieck was also suspended for 15 days for participa-
tion In the incident involving Booth.
"Finally, Boone drew a 15-day suspension for an Inci-
dent involving Mair, Lee, and himself.
album
oe TE
which Mair
The grand
t Mairand Lu
- to do anythi:
Both men
All of the
i Patrol Divis:
®t ———"
TTR ART
: SFP oa N
5 Ki
yuth and
SARALAND,
ce
ive treat. ;
pervision,
lectof + [is LEE A i : Seglental A “.Speailics of the i Soents wer ier setealod bot oil Br sy men In
itizens on
anti] last
which he
ansported
7 to take
ve treat-
-aslon, by rting for
lcohol on
=r super-
¥ men in
#\labama
sficer of
's "1976
days for
_ and for
«citizen's
that In-
-
mating a
articipa-
an Inci-
¥ “\Ews
aa
the wake of a alleged mock lynching on March 28 of a
o
r
p
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e
1 Coley, were all suspended for 15 dayy~
* Patrick, Strau, Powell, Williams,
§- on assault and batte
i incident, In which &'looped rope was placed around the,
k' neck of 27-year-old Glenn Diamond. Fold
£ All five are awaiting trial and the wispensions of the”
a
came: to light during-a departmental Investigation of x
police conduct that yas launched two months ago In}
black robbery
Shortly after tha incident came Fo ght: In early
April, the just uded Investigation began and ex,! -
panded to include qther alleged misconduct and the +
by eight other licens, all o
+ original eight officers were themselves disciplined FY
. Patrolman," Michgel Patrick was fired and
‘Patrolmen Vernon .§traum, Kenneth. Powell, Wilbur.
Williams, Danny E. Buck, and Everett Alan Brown, and B
Patrolmen First Class Roy Adams and James R,
Bint wees
y a Mobile: County grand jury iX
y charges in
subsequently indicts
four indicted: wht? Patrick have - been ‘continued
indefinitely. - ;
The men were all warhbity of the Patrol Division's
“800 Squad,” a special robbery-burglary
which Mair and Lund were supervisors.
The grand jury was {old by some of the officers that
Mair and Lund knew of the iyncing mattar, but | falled
to do anything abou, n. Af 3 VL ,
Both men have denied the charge.
All of the policemen disciplined Thursday were also
Patrol Division members, many with long, virtually
ws pd a
id”
with ba %
a
detall of
_ i= department,” he said, "It has a good record and It has
‘great majority of the men do an excellent job and the x
community can be proud of them." rat
blemished 3 service records. Four were superisory
personnel. .
+ * None of the men were available for comment, but |
“several are expected to appeal
" Mobile County Personnel Board.
8 Censures ta the.
eines 7132
A total of 54 officers and 60 ras citizd ere
questioned during the departmental investigation *
which was directed by Riddle and City Attorney Fred
Collins. * = LE Re
Fifteen officers took polygvah le detector) tests. .
* Doyle, in looking back over the last two months, said’ “4
Friday afternoon that he believes a lack of proper
training of the men, particularly supervisors, was "Aq
chiefly responsible for the misconduct.
‘Consequently, several new trainin: programs’ Ha :
established, including efforts to teach supervisg
“detect undue tension and strain within their”
Also, an outside agency is expected to be petal
for a masiagément and effectiveness dy of the. eo-
tire department.
Finally, an Internal Affairs Division that will, 1a:
effect, police the police department is being er |
tablished.
Doyle sald Friday that the Investigation Ww dis- 3
ciplining is an Indication the police department willi {
“clean its own house,” and he ade the S Qornmeniy r i
should not abandon the police. ~ f
The Mobile Police Department. Is a good’
some of the most dedicated men and some of the [inest
men of any police department in the country . .. The
— ——
Plaintiffs Exhibit 73
SUMMARY
The City reports 1369 white employees and 489 black,
employees, i.e. 26.3% black. If the lowest job classification,
Service/Maintenance, is removed the percentage of black efiplovess
falls to 10.4%. If the lowest salary classification is removed,
§ less than $5,900/year, the percentage of black employees falls
to 13.87.
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PLAINTIFFS’ EXHIBIT
oO
cITY f1 Pin. #2 Streets #4 9 #6 Hat. #9 £10 Community #12 Utilities #13 Sant.& #15 Totals 4
1975 Admin. Highways Police Fire Res.&Parks Housing Development &Transp. _Sewage Misc. Black
Officials . Administrative 13 1 i. 9-6. 138 1 a Ta . Veg ge 6. ~ Sig 10%
Professionals $e th 15 116. Li 2.0. . i 0. ~ s§ 1 1.72
Technician no. & om 86° = BS ye, 2 1 ho. ith 1. 9 - 2201 42
Protective Service . i 7 BIS ae aim =. 2 a ow - - 432 4 11.12
Para.Professional -- - - wma bie OY SY - = - - - - Po o~- 25:3" 67:53 44.12
Office Clerical 3 iw 08 A miigy oy & 3 J 6. = 2 - 131 45 11 7.02
Skilled Craft REA Te owe Ci oli 8.1 72 78 9 108 14 11.4% 0
Service/Maint. «= 20 10 8. 2. = wi YA -iiw hin 46 33 S4 124 33 21 166 48 67.7% aN Totals 80 2.47 108 1708*6 42d45 8d 122 23 2 1 66 35 75"126 184 34 1248 487
vos Veer nagisaigl wl uy ig vB vB Vv oB vs. Ww. 3
3
W = White
* Individual statistics do not match EEO-& totals.
. B = Black
1/ Includes 15 denominated "other" as white.
1 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT
SUMMARY ANALYSIS
Fo p . CITY OF MOBILE EMPLOYMENT - 1975
BY RACE, SALARY AND JOB CLASSIFICATION.
pt SOURCE: STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT
co INFORMATION (EEO-4) SUBMITTED TO THE
EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION
Annual Salary Financial Streets & Police Fire Natural Resources Housing Community Utilities Sanitation Misc. Total 4
in Thousand $ Admin. Highways & Parks Develop, & Transp. & Sewage Black
0-5.9 19 13 = 90 26 2 2 - 28 83 3. .'~- -lim 1:9 37 9% 51 21 186 299 61.62
6.0-7.9 4 {dh 19 15 42 6 2 - 30 37 1-7} - oo. 46 25 26.3) 48 9 241 125 34.12
8.0-9.9 41 10 1 108 37 309 15 8 1 3 EE 3. = 5 2 3 1 S58 4 531 61 10.3% ©
10.0-12.9 15. = 4 - 32 1 A072. - 6 - al 3. 6 = 1 - 16 = 234 2 .82 ps
13.0-15.9 8 - - - SE i= 3 1 2 = Qi - = - - 3 - 35: 1 2.12
16.0-24.9 yp 1 - 2 - 2 - 2 - wil 2 im 2 =~ - - 3 - 21 0 0.0%
* 1{ * « *
Totals 98. 22 47 106 370 46 420-15 80 122 28. 2 BS 66 35 75 126 184 34 1248 487
Ww B Ww Bl Ww B WB LJ B Ww B Ww B w B w B w B w B
* Individual statistics do not match EEO-4 totals. W = White
B = Black
1/ Includes 15 denominated "other" as white.
918
Plaintiffs Exhibit 75
Total % % %
Streets Unpaved Paved % Paved
Group (Miles) Since 1970 Unpaved Since 1970
1 117.78 .85 15.9
2 350,06 2.6 13.0 2.8 15.6
3 147.61 4.7 al.8
4 35.56 1.4 23.7 - -
5 72.31 .9 5.8 6.5 9.7
6 85.72 13.8 r34.8
Miles of Miles unpaved Miles paved since
% of Paved per per 1% of 1970 per 1% of
- 3 Group City Voters 1% Voters Voters : Voters
3 1 : 9.3 12,55 .10 1.97
; 2 42.5 8.01 hy A 1.07
3 14.7 1:-g.58 .48 e3s
4 2. 11.68 +17 : 2.81
5 11,5 6.22 . 06 ; . 36
6 9.3 5.16 .82 .88
Miles paved
% of Miles paved Miles unpaved since 1970 %
Group City Voters % of Voters % City Voters of City Voters
1, 115 111 668.5 8.99 .26 1.44
Vv & VI 20.8 Bel .40 «59
614
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Mar oa FOITION
GLA ODN. REA NO. MY
. UNIVED STATES GO'Y' “NMENT 965 The ™-nartment of the Treasury
Memorandum
10
FROM
SUBJECT:
~~ Washington, D.C.
‘The File DATE: ®-3/- 73
RobertjMurphy, Malaku Steen, Paul Landry and Elliott Clark
Compliance Trip to Mobile, Alabama
BACKGROUND
The Office of Revenue Sharing received a complaint from
the Mobile, Alabama-Branch of the Mational Association for
The Advancement of Colored People, charging the City of Mobile
with discrimination in the distribution of Revenue Sharing
Funds. The two (2) main areas of concern are related to pav-
ing or resurfacing ventures and city operated re¢reational
facilities. oder
During the period August 15%, 1973, the Compliance
Manager of the Office of Revenue Sharing, along with an Equal
Opportunity Specialist, an Auditor, and a representative from
the Department of Justice were in lobile, Alabama investigating
the complaint of discrimination. The investigation involved:
1) meeting with City Officials (tke Mayor, Finance Commissioner,
City Planning Director, Senior Engineer for Public Works, etc.):
2) meeting with the complainant and other representatives of
the Black community (President, Motile, Alabama Field Director
bY the NAACP, the Pastor of a Baptist Church, etd.) 3) making
site inspections of the alleged discriminatory areas and other
Buy U.S. Savings Bonds Regularly on tle Payroll Savings Plan
615
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areas in the C._ 7 of Mobile; and 4) exam. _.ng records of a
financial nature to determine where Revenue Sharing Funds have
been expended, obligated and budgeted.
For the period October 1, 1972 to September 30, 1974,
the City of Mobile anticipates receiving $12,226,000 of Revenue
Sharing Funds. Of this amount $7,452,900 is planned for Public
Works (paving, drainage, resurfacirg various streets, culverts,
purchasing specialized vehicles, etc.), and $1,572,000 is
planned for Parks (swimming pools, recreation center, etc.).
See Exhibit "A" attached for details. As of July 31, 1973
approximately $1,950,000 had been expended and approximately
$950,000 had been encumbered for a total of approximately
$2,900,000. See Exhibit "B" attacted for details.
FINDINGS AND CONCLL SIONS
Recreational Facilities
The meeting with the members cf the Black community focused
primarily on two recreational areas - Herndon Park, which is
in a white area, and Gorgas Community Center; which is in a
Black area. In addition, the NAACF, Mobile, Alabama Branch,
took issue "with the near million collar planned expenditure
on a golf course".
Pictures of the two parks cleszrly show that Herndon Park
is in better condition than Gorgas Community Center. Further-
more, the swimming pool in the Center is not operative and is
in dire need of repairs. The Reverue Sharing Budget for Parks
.. 616
967
(Page No. 13, budget Number 432) stows thaw $119,400 was
" pudgeted for the Gorgas Park pool for Fiscal Year 1972-1973.
We were advised by City officials that the pool situation at
Gorgas will be rectified before next summer (plans call for a
new pool to be huilt). a
Another areca mentioned by the NAACP in their complaint to
the Mayor of Mobile was the Joe Rauford Thomas Center. Reno-
vation of the pool in this Center is included in the Revenue
Sharing Budget (#433) in the amount. of $73,200 for Fiscal
Year 1972-1973. It is anticipated that the renovation will be
completed by next summer also.
Regarding the golf course, we found a proposal to the
United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Outdoor
Recreation, requesting 507% Federal assistance, namely, $265,953
(the balance to come out of the City of Mobile's Capital Fund -
not Revenue Sharing), for a 9-hole golf course, driving range,
etc., in Miller's park. City officials confirmed that there
were no plans to use Revenue Sharirg Funds for constructing
a olf course.
Regarding recreation, we conclude that the claim of dis-
crimination is not supported by the facts. We should follow-
up to see that the pools in minority areas are constructed or
renovated in time to be used by the beginning of next summer.
City officials ndvised that the delay was partly due to the
fact that the City was caught in a bind with the contractors
due to the additional amount of work generated by the receipt
617
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40 968
of Revenue ‘Shai-ng Funds,
Paving, Resurfacing and Drainage
Our review did not substantiate the charge of discrimination
rclating to the assignment of priorities for paving, resurfacing,
and drainage of the various city streets of Mobile. In many
cases, resurfacing and drainage prcjects are already in process
in certain areas of the Black and White neighborhoods.
We were informed by city officials that the areas selected
were in conformance with the overall Mayor Street Plan of 1968,
which was accelerated due to receipts of the Revenue Sharing
Funds. Areas such as those locatec in the vicinity of the \
Mobile General Hospital were cited as having higher priority
because of the floods which cut off ascess to the hospital. The
city also maintains that the areas selected for drainage were
selected because of the topography which necessitates doing
certain areas first.
The complainant provided several photographs to support
his allegation of discrimination ir the assignment of priorities,
but it appears that the complainant was not aware of the city's
criteria used for establishing pricrities.
Examples of some of these streets cited by the complainant
as needing resurfacing were Summerville Street intersecting
at Joy Lane, Stanton Street, and tle Old Shell Road from
Buy Shore Avenue to Martin Street vhich has open ditches. Two
oI these were mentioned in the Mobile Newspaper as slated for
“618
969
resurfacing and are now in process. The Old Shell Road area : i
has not been considered for repairs within the period of the
two-year program, but later discussions with Mobile City
Officials indicated that this area will be repaired during the
2nd year of the program. A review of the two-year budget for
the Revenue Sharing Funds, and the areas outlined on a map
provided by the city, disclosed thet plans do include areas of
—
—>/the Black communities. However, it is quite evident that these
| areas to a very large degree (with the exception of Trinity
j Gardens and the Bay Bridge Area) are being used for commercial
» / and commuter traffic, (such as Davis, Stanton, Donal, and
i Summerville Street,) rather than fcr the use of citizens in more
i generalized residential areas. The yellow areas noted on the
. map indicates that resurfacing proiects have been concentrated & : or. many of the main and side streets of the White neighborhoods.
i se ead ——
— |
— | Tohere is clear evidence that the resurfacing projects were not treason SAAS teat See eee ——————. EE ee ee me ett ee eee.
; performed on an equable basis among. the neighborhoods.
-— TT winiieiismiom————————"
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sis
The complainant also provided several photographs of areas
wnich had poor drainage, such as Chisam and Persimmon Street
wiiich were caused by the dike built by the city to refdain the
water from the river. The city ha: now agreed to cut a hole in the dike, so that the accumulated water can filter into the
river,
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-5- 619 3
970
a
v The total -.1location of Revenue Shar».g Funds (approxi-
mately $1,176,000) for the installetion of drainage systems has
the i bcen limited to the neighborhoods c¢f; Riverside, Beichleiu,
or Murtz, Maryvale, Maysville, Rolling Acres, Jackson, Bolton and
Airmont. Some of these neighborhocds are shown as areas with
of : drainage problems, but others are indicated as having adequate
rise dranage. All of these neighborhoocs are predominantly White.
. ————
Those areas which were considered with adequate drainage were
included in the Revenue Sharing Bucget, when those in the Black
al
neighborhood listed as poor drainage were not. Also, we noted
more that the city's capital budget shows that $700,000 was allocated
e for a drainage project along the Dcg River ares which is also
ed i predominantly White. We did note hcwever, that the city of
as : Mobile has allocated approximately $1,000,000 for the drainage
ot i system along the 3 mile Creek area and the Downtown section,
T b Vaieh is predominantly Black. ra ny
pas ks General
{ Pointing out specific areas where streets have poor drainage
e : where there are open ditches, pot-holes, etc., does not of
in itself prove discrimination.
i
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5-620