Brown v. Board of Trustees of the Lagrange Independent School District Transcript of Record

    TRANSCRIPT OF RECORD.

U N I T E D  S T A T E S

C O U R T  OF A P P E A L S
FIFTH CIRCUIT.

No. 13,317

JULIUS BROWN,
Appellant,

versus

BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE LAGRANGE INDE­
PENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, ET AL.,

Appellees.

Appeal from the United States District Court for the 
Southern District of Texas.

(ORIGINAL RECORD RECEIVED JULY 8/50.)

' 0 0 - 8 T  C

Tl. L'E



INDEX
PAGE

Appellant’s Designation of Contents of Record on
A ppeal................   1

Caption ........................................................................ • 3
Plaintiff’s First Amended Original Complaint .......  3
Defendants’ First Amended Original Answer to First 
Amended Original Complaint .................................   12

TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE ...................................  18
Colloquy between Court and Counsel................... 21

Evidence for Plaintiff:
Testimony of Julius Edward Brown ...........  26
Motion of Defendants for Dismissal ...........  37
Testimony of George Scott ..........................  38

R. C. Hickman ......................  69
James C. Jackson ................. 105
R. C. Hickman (Resumed) . . 142
C. A. Lemmons .....................  154

Evidence for Defendants:
Testimony of George Matthews Page ........ 188

Evidence for Plaintiff:
Testimony of C. A. Lemmons (Recalled) . . 222

C. A. Lemmons (Resumed) .. 238

Evidence for Defendants:
Testimony of Hugh E. Gregg ......................  291

Evidence for Plaintiff:
Testimony of C. A. Lemmons (Resumed) . . 312

Julius Brown (Recalled) . . 414
William N. Farris................... 416
William N. Farris (Resumed) 421



INDEX—Continued
PAGE

Transcript of Evidence— (Continued):
Evidence for Defendants:

Testimony of Alvin Baumbach ...................  428
C. A. Lemmons ..........  435

Colloquy between Court and Counsel . . . . . . . .  436

Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law ............... 441
Final Judgment, entered 3/7/50 ................................  447
Notice of Appeal .......................................................... 449
Appeal B on d ...................................................................  450
Order dated 7/7/50 Transmitting Original Exhibits

to Court of Appeals ........................................... 456
Clerk’s Certificate .................................    461

II



APPELLAN TS DESIGNATION OF RECORD.

(Filed May 11, 1950.)

IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE UNITED 
STATES FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF 
TEXAS, HOUSTON DIVISION.

JULIUS BROWN,
Plaintiff,

versus

Civil Action No. 4223.

BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE LAGRANGE IN­
DEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, LAGRANGE, 
TEXAS, AND THE LAGRANGE INDEPENDENT 
SCHOOL DISTRICT, A BODY CORPORATE, L. 
D. BOELSCHE, PRESIDENT OF SAID BOARD 
AND C. A. LEMMONS, SUPERINTENDENT OF 
THE PUBLIC LAGRANGE, TEXAS, AND OF 
THE SAID LAGRANGE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL 
DISTRICT AND IN THEIR OFFICIAL CAPACITY,

Defendants.

Now Comes Julius Brown, plaintiff and appellant 
in the above styled and numbered cause, by and 
through his attorneys of record, and designates the 
following portions of the record, proceedings, and evi­
dence in the said cause to be placed in the record on 
appeal:

1. Plaintiff’s first amended original complaint.

2. Defendants’ first amended original answer.



2

3. All the evidence adduced upon the trial of the 
said cause.

4. Judgment of the Court.

5. Notice of appeal.

6. Findings of fact made by the Court and con­
clusions of law.

7. Appeal bond.
Respectfully Submitted:

U. SIMPSON TATE,
(U. Simpson Tate.)

W. J. DURHAM,
(W. J. Durham.)

BEN N. RAMEY,
(Ben N. Ram ey.)
Attorneys for Appellant.

I Certify that a copy of the above and foregoing des­
ignation of the record on appeal in the said cause has 
been served upon attorneys for Appellees by placing 
one copy in an envelope, bearing the proper amount 
of postage, and addressed to Mr. Miles Moff, Attorney 
at Law, LaGrange, Texas, and placing the same in 
the United States mail, and placing another copy in an 
envelope, bearing the proper amount of postage, ad- 
dresed to Mr. Douglass McGregor, attorney at law, 
Second National Bank Building, Houston, Texas.

BEN N. RAMEY,
(Ben N. Ramey.)



3

CAPTION,

In the United States District Court for the Southern 
District of Texas, Holding Sessions at Houston.

Julius Brown,
vs. No. GA 4223

Board of Trustees of the LeGrange Independent School
District, et al.

Be It Remembered: That in the Above Entitled and 
Numbered Cause, Lately Pending in Said Court, 
in which Final Judgment was Renedered at the 
Regular February 1950 Term of Said Court, To- 
Wit: On the 7th Day of March A. D. 1950, the Hon­
orable T. M. Kennerly, Judge of the United States 
District Court for the Southern District of Texas, 
Presiding, the Following Proceedings were had, 
To-wit:

* * * * * * * *

PLAINTIFFS FIRST AMENDED ORIGINAL COM­
PLAINT.

(Filed Nov. 22, 1949.)

(Title Omitted.)

To The Honorable Judge Of Said Court:
Comes now the plaintiff, Julius Brown, . and with 

leave of the Court first had and obtained, files this



4

plaintiff’s first amended original complaint, and for 
such amended original complaint, plaintiff alleges:

1. The jurisdiction of this Court is invoked under 
judicial Code, Section 24 (1) (28 U. S, C,, Section 41 
(1), this being a suit in equity which arises under 
the Constitution and laws of the United States, viz., 
the Fourteenth Amendment of said Constitution and 
sections 41 and 43 of Title 8 of the United Code, wherein 
the matter in controversy exceeds, exclusive of inter­
est and costs, the sum of Three Thousand ($3,000.00) 
Dollars.

The jurisdiction of this Court is also invoked under 
Judicial Code, Section 24 (14) (28 U. S. C., Section 41 
(14) this being a suit in equity authorized by law to 
be brought to redress the deprecation under color of 
law, statute, regulation, custom and usage of a State, 
rights, privileges and immunities secured by the Con­
stitution of the United States, viz., the Fourteenth 
Amendment to said Constitution, and of rights of citi­
zens of the United States, viz., Sections 41 and 43 of 
Title 8 of the United States Code.

2. Plaintiff shows further that this is a proceeding 
for a declaratory judgment and an injunction under 
Section 2740 of the Judicial Code for the purpose of de­
termining a question in actual controversy between the 
parties, to-wit: The question of whether the practice of 
the defendants in adopting; enforcing and maintaining 
the policy, custom and usage of the defendants, and 
each of them, in maintaining inadequate, unsanitary 
and inferior schools and school facilities for Negro 
children in the City of LaGrange and in the LaGrange 
Independent School District between the ages of six



5

(6) and Twenty-one (21), while maintaining modern, 
sanitary and superior schools and school facilities for 
white children in said City of LaGrange, Texas, and 
in the LaGrange Independent School District, consti­
tutes a denial of the right to the plaintiff and his child 
to the equal protection under the laws of the Four­
teenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

3. All parties to this action, both plaintiff and de­
fendants, are citizens of the United States and of the 
State of Texas, and are resident and domiciled in said 
State; that the defendant, the LaGrange Independent 
School District at all times mentioned herein was and 
is by law declared a body corporate, and that said 
defendant has a Board of Trustees, and that the de­
fendant L. D. Boelsche is Chairman of said Board of 
Trustees, and that C. A. Lemmons is an agent, servant 
and employee of said defendant, and are the principal 
agents of the defendants, upon whom service may be 
had for all purposes of this lawsuit.

4. That this plaintiff resides in the LaGrange In­
dependent School District and is a tax payer and prop­
erty owner, and that he has one (1) child, to-wit: 
Vivian Alpha Brown, who resides in the said La­
Grange Independent School District; and is between 
the ages of six (6) and twenty-one (21) years, to-wit: Six­
teen (16) years of age, and she has completed the 
tenth grade provided under the curriculum of the 
school in said District; and under the rules and regu­
lations promulgated by the defendant, LaGrange In­
dependent School District, has been promoted to the 
eleventh grade and is eligible to attend the high school 
provided for and maintained by the State of Texas in 
the LaGrange Independent School District; and that



6

this law suit is brought for the benefit of this plaintiff 
and his child, as well as all other persons similarly 
situated in the said LaGrange Independent School Dis­
trict. That the plaintiff and those whom he represents 
are persons of African descent and Negro blood; that 
the defendant, L. D. Boelsche, is president of the Board 
of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent School Dis­
trict, and that the defendant, C. A. Lemmons is Sup­
erintendent of the LaGrange City School maintained 
and operated by the State of Texas through the La­
Grange Independent School District; that the defend­
ants L. D. Boelsche and C. A. Lemmons are sued in 
their official capacities herein alleged; that the defend­
ant, LaGrange Independent School District is a body 
corporate by virtue of and under the general laws of 
the State of Texas, and said defendant is sued in its 
official capacity.

5. That the State of Texas has provided by consti­
tution and statutes for an efficient system of public 
free schools, Article 7, Section 1 of the Constitution of 
the State of Texas.

6. That the State of Texas, under its general laws, 
has declared and provided for a free public school 
system for the education of all children between the 
ages of six and twenty-one.

7. That the State of Texas, under its general laws, 
has provided for free text books for all children be­
tween the ages of six and twenty-one, Articles 2839 to 
2876J, Revised Civil Statutes of the State of Texas.

8. That under the Constitution and laws of the State 
of Texas, the defendants and each of them, are charged



7

with the duty of maintaining a general and uniform sys­
tem of public .schools where tuition shall be free of charge 
to the children between the ages of six and twenty-one 
who reside in the LaGrange Independent School District; 
that under the Constitution and laws of the State of 
Texas, defendants, and each of them, are charged with the 
duty of making available public school funds and public 
school facilities within the LaGrange Independent School 
District for the education of white and Negro children; 
that acting as administrative officers of the State of Texas, 
the defendants, and each of them, are in truth and in fact 
maintaining a public school system in the City of La­
Grange and in the LaGrange Independent School District 
which is supported by the levying, assessment and collec­
tion of taxes, including taxes from the plaintiff, imposed 
upon the resident citizens of the City of LaGrange and of 
the LaGrange Independent School District; and that the 
State of Texas has levied, assessed and collected taxes 
from this plaintiff and those similarly situated and for 
whose benefit this lawsuit is brought for the purpose of 
supporting the public free school system in the city of La­
Grange and in the LaGrange Independent School District; 
that such school system maintained by the LaGrange In­
dependent School District and the City of LaGrange, de­
fendants herein, is maintained on a separate, segregated 
basis with Negroes forced to attend one school exclusively 
and all other racial groups attending the other schools; 
that under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitu­
tion of the United States and the laws of the United States, 
the defendants, and each of them are required to provide 
educational facilities for said children without discrimina­
tion because of race or color of said children.

9. That the school which Negro children are required 
by defendants to attend is known as the Randolph Colored



8

High School, the same being a combination elementary 
and purported high school.

10. That the facilities, physical conditions, sanitation 
and protection from the elements in Randolph Colored 
High School, which is the only school the defendants will 
permit Negro children to attend are inadequate and are 
not furnished with the equal facilities and equipment as 
the schools provided for by the defendants for the educa­
tion and attendance of white students and pupils in that 
the schools provided by the defendants for the education 
and attendance of white students and pupils are equipped 
as follows:

Public address system; automatic electric signal clock; 
electric fire bell; central steam heating system; metal 
lockers in hall; a library consisting of approximately 3700 
volumes; a complete workshop and teachers in charge of 
workshop with modern equipment and housed in separate 
buildings; chemical laboratory, and equipped with mod­
ern equipments and housed in two rooms; 2 concrete ten­
nis courts; swings for play service on outside of building 
for pupils; a gymnasium; cafeteria provided with movable 
tables and chairs. Said gymnasium being equipped with 
showers and locker rooms for girls and boys; and a school 
band and equipments for such band.

And that none of the described facilities are furnished 
and provided in the school buildings and ground, provid­
ed and furnished for the education of Negro students and 
pupils in the school provided for the education of pupils 
and students of Negro blood and African descent; that the 
only library facilities, furnished for Negro students in the 
only school which they are permitted to attend, is approx­
imately 200 volumes, many such said volumes are merely



9

fill-ins and are not in current use in a standardized high 
school in the State of Texas and are of no value to the 
students.

11. That the defendants are now and have been for a 
long period of time prior to the date of filing this peti­
tion furnishing to the white pupils in the City of LaGrange 
and the LaGrange Independent School District, adequate 
facilities for education in a standardized high school, as 
provided for under the general laws of the State of Texas, 
and as hereinbefore described in this petition; and that 
the defendants have for a long period of time prior to the 
date of filing this petition, and are now refusing to fur­
nish such facilities to Negro pupils between the ages of 
six and twenty-one who reside in the City of LaGrange 
and the LaGrange Independent School District as herein­
before alleged.

12. That the policy, custom and usage of the defend­
ants and each of them have maintained inadequate, un­
sanitary and inferior schools and school facilities, as here­
inbefore alleged, for Negro children of the City of La­
Grange and the LaGrange Independent School District, 
while maintaining adequate, modern, sanitary and super­
ior school facilities for whites in the City of LaGarnge 
and the LaGrange Independent School District, as herein­
before alleged, constitute a denial of the rights of the 
plaintiff and his child to the equal protection of the laws 
under the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States 
Constitution.

13. That the plaintiff, Julius Brown, individually, and 
on behalf of his aforesaid minor child, and on behalf of 
the parents and all persons similarly situated, petitioned 
the defendants and each of them to cease their unlawful



10

custom, policy and usage of requiring Negro children to 
attend and use inadequate, unsanitary and inferior schools 
and school facilities, as hereinbefore alleged, while sup­
plying to the white school children of the city of LaGrange 
and the LaGrange Independent School District, safe, sani­
tary and adequate schools and school facilities, as herein­
before alleged in this complaint; that said petition was 
filed on or about the 5th day of December, 1947, and that 
such petition of the plaintiff has been ignored by the de­
fendants, and the defendants, and each of them, have con­
tinued and are now promulgating and enforcing their said 
unlawful practice, custom and usage.

14. Plaintiff alleges by virtue of such wrongful and 
illegal policy, custom and usage of the defendants, and 
each of them, that the plaintiff and his child of school 
age, and all Negro parents of children similarly situated in 
the City of LaGrange and the LaGrange Independent 
School District, are damaged; that they have no adequate 
remedy at law.

Wherefore, plaintiff respectfully prays the Court:
(1) That this Court adjudge and decree and declare 

the rights and legal relations of the parties to the subject 
matter here in controversy in order that such declaration 
and decree shall have the force and effect of a final judg­
ment or decree.

(2) That this Court enter a judgment, order or decree 
declaring that the policy, custom and usage of the defend­
ants, and each of them, in maintaining and furnishing 
schools and school facilities for Negro children between 
the ages of six and twenty-one in the City of LaGrange 
and the LaGrange Independent School District which are 
inferior to those furnished to white children in said City 
and District is a denial of the equal protection of laws



11

guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Consti­
tution, and is therefore, unconstitutional and void; and

(3) That this Court issue a permanent injunction for­
ever restraining the defendants, and each of them, and 
their successors in office from maintaining a policy, cus­
tom and usage of furnishing schools and school facilities 
for Negro children between the ages of six and twenty- 
one in the City of LaGrange and in the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District which are inferior to those fur­
nished to all other children of said age group in said city 
and district.

(S.) W. J. DURHAM,
(S.) BEN N. RAMEY,

Attorneys for Plaintiff.

State of Texas,
County of ............................

Before me, on this day personally appeared Julius 
Brown, who, after being by me first duly sworn, upon 
oath, states that he is the plaintiff in the above-entitled 
and numbered cause, and that the contents of said com­
plaint are within his knowledge true and correct.

(S.) JULIUS BROWN,
(Julius Brown).

Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 3rd day of 
December, 1948.

(S.) BOBBYE DURHAM,
Notary Public, Dallas County, 

Texas.

(Notarial Seal.)

I do hereby certify that I have this the 3rd day of Feb­
ruary, 1949, mailed to Messrs. McGregor & Sewell, Second



12

National Bank, Houston, Texas, and to Messrs. Moss & 
Moss, LaGrange, Texas, the defendants attorneys of rec­
ord, a true and correct copy of the above and foregoing 
amended bill of complaint.

(S.) W. J. DURHAM,
(W. J. Durham.)

DEFENDANT’S FIRST AMENDED ANSWER.

(Filed December 2, 1949.)

(Title Omitted.)

To the Honorable Judge of said Court:
Come now the defendants, LaGrange Independent 

School District, Fayette County, Texas, L. D. Boelsche, 
President of the Board of Trustees of said District, and 
C. A. Lemmons, Superintendent of LaGrange Independent 
School District, in their official capacities and answering 
the Plaintiff’s First Amended Original Complaint in this 
cause would respectfully show unto the Court the follow­
ing:

I.

The defendant, LaGrange Independent School District, 
denies that it is a body corporate of and by virtue of and 
under the general laws of the State of Texas, and alleges 
that it was created by a special act of legislature of Texas, 
effective April 2, 1921, with all the rights, powers, privi­
leges and duties of a town or village incorporated under 
the general laws of the State of Texas for free school pur­
poses only, having certain rights to manage and control



13

the public free schools within the LaGrange Independent 
School District in Fayette County, Texas.

II.

In answer to Paragraph Number 2 of the Plaintiff’s Com­
plaint, Defendants deny that they have or are adopting, 
enforcing or maintaining any policy, custom or usage in 
maintaining inadequate, unsanitary or inferior schools and 
schools facilities for Negro children in the City of La- 
Grange and in the LaGrange Independent School District 
between the ages of six and twenty-one, while maintain­
ing modern, sanitary and superior schools and school fa­
cilities for white children in the City of LaGrange, Texas, 
and in the LaGrange Independent School District. De­
fendants further specifically deny that there exists any 
question with reference to any such practice, policy, cus­
tom or usage as is alleged to exist. Defendants further 
specifically deny that Plaintiff or his children have been 
denied equal protection under the laws of the Fourteenth 
Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

III.

The defendants admit all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Numbered 3 of Plaintiff’s First Amended Orig­
inal Complaint.

IV.

In answer to Paragraph Number 4 of the Plaintiff’s 
Complaint, the Defendants admit that the Defendant L. 
D. Boelsche is President of the Board of Trustees of the 
LaGrange Independent School District in Fayette County, 
Texas, and that the Defendant C. A. Lemmons is Superin­



14

tendent of the LaGrange Independent School District in 
Fayette County, Texas, and that said school district is a 
body corporate by virtue of and under the special laws of 
the State of Texas, as alleged in Paragraph I above. The 
Defendants are without sufficient information to either 
admit or deny any of the other allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 4 of said Complaint.

V.

The Defendants admit all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 5 of said Complaint.

VI.

The Defendants admit all of the allegations contained 
in Paragraph Number 6 of said Complaint.

VII.

The Defendants admit all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 7 of said Complaint.

VIII.

The Defendants admit the allegations contained in Para­
graph Numbered 8 of the Plaintiff’s First Amended Orig­
inal Complaint to the effect that the defendants are 
charged with the duty of maintaining a general and uni­
form system of public schools where tuition shall be free 
of charge to the children between the ages of six and 
twenty-one, who reside in the LaGrange Independent 
School District, and the defendants further admit that the 
said schools heretofore referred to are maintained by 
taxes which have been levied, assessed and collected with­



15

in the district. All other matters of fact and legal con­
clusions in said Paragraph Numbered 8 are denied for the 
want of information and strict proof is demanded of same.

IX.

In answer to Paragraph Number 9 of the Plaintiff’s 
Complaint the Defendants deny that Randolph Colored 
High School is a purported high school and allege that on 
the contrary it is an accredited high school under the Laws 
of the State of Texas.

It is likewise alleged that this school is a combination 
elementary and high school.

X.

Defendants deny all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 10 of the Plaintiff’s Complaint.

XI.

The Defendants deny all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 11 of the Plaintiff’s Complaint.

XII.

The Defendants deny all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 12 of the Plaintiff’s Complaint.

XIII.

The defendants deny all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 13 of the Plaintiff’s Complaint.



16

Defendants deny all of the allegations contained in 
Paragraph Number 14 of said Complaint.

Wherefore, these Defendants pray that this Honorable 
Court enter its judgment and decree denying and refusing 
the permanent injunction requested by Plaintiff and find­
ing, decreeing and declaring that Defendants have not 
furnished and maintained schools and school facilities for 
Negro children between the ages of six and twenty-one 
years in the LaGrange Independent School District, which 
are inferior to those furnished white children in said dis­
trict; and Defendants further pray that the Court affirma­
tively find and decree that the schools and school facilities 
maintained and furnished Negro students within the La- 
Grange Independent School District are adequate and 
equal to the facilities furnished white students within said 
district; that defendants have judgment for their costs.

(S.) MILES L. MOSS,
(Miles L. Moss)

LaGrange, Texas.

(s.) d o u g l a s  w. McGr e g o r ,
(Douglas W. McGregor)

905 Second National Bank Building,
Houston 2, Texas.

Of Counsel:
MOSS & MOSS,

LaGrange, Texas.

McGr e g o r  & s e w e l l ,
Houston, Texas.

XIV.

File Kennerly 12/2/49.



The State of Texas, 
County of Fayette.

17

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this day per­
sonally appeared C. A. Lemmons, who, having been duly 
sworn, upon oath, states that he is one of the Defendants 
in the above entitled and numbered cause and that he is 
duly authorized to make this affidavit for and in behalf 
of the other defendants in said cause, and that the mat­
ters and statements of fact contained in the foregoing 
First Amended Answer of the Defendants are true and 
correct.

(S.) C. A. LEMMONS.
Subscribed and sworn to before me, this 30 day of No­

vember, A. D., 1949.
(S.) NORMA H. LOESSIN,

(Seal) Notary Public in and for Fa­
yette County, Texas.

(Rubber Stamp)
NORMA H. LOESSIN,

Notary Public, Fayette County, Texas.

Served on Durham by U. S. Mail.

(s.) d o u g l a s  w. m c g r e g o r .



18

TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE.

In the United States District Court, Southern District of 
Texas, Houston Division.

Julius Brown, Plaintiff,

vs. Civil Action 4223.

Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent School 
District, LaGrange, Texas, and the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School Districts, a body corporate, L. D. 
Boelsche, President of said Board, and C. A. Lem­
mons, Superintendent of the Public Schools System 
of the City of LaGrange, Texas, and of the said La- 
Grange Independent School Districts, and in their of­
ficial capacity, Defendants.

* * * * * * * *

Appearances:
For the Plaintiff:

Messrs. Mandell and Wright, State National Building, 
Houston, Texas, by Ben M. Ramey, Esq.

W. J. Durham, Esq., P. O. Box 641, Dallas, Texas.
U. Simpson Tate, Esq., Dallas, Texas.

For the Defendants:
Messrs. McGregor and Sewell, 905 Second National 

Bank Building, Houston, Texas, by Douglas W. Mc­
Gregor, Esq.

Messrs. Moss and Moss, LaGrange, Texas, by Miles 
L. Moss, Esq.

* * * * * * * *



19

The Court:
The case on call on which there was an announcement 

this morning is Civil Action 4223, Julius Brown versus 
Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent School 
District. The parties are still ready, I suppose?

Mr. McGregor:
For the information of the plaintiffs, there is one mat­

ter I neglected to state this morning. In assembling those 
records the duces tecum called for the various deeds in the 
possession of the School District.

We are unable to find such deeds and have resorted to 
the County Clerk’s records and photostated those that we 
can find. This district is the product of certain amalga­
mations and growth and some of those papers apparently 
have been lost. Now to that extent we have the photo­
stats from the County Court’s records of those deeds, but 
we do not have the deeds.

The Court:
Any comment?

Mr. Durham:
No, sir.

The Court:
On what pleading is plaintiff going to trial?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, on the plaintiff’s first amended complaint, 

petition.

The Court:
When was that filed?



20

Mr. Ramey:
It was filed, Your Honor, I believe, last week.

Mr. Durham:
November 22 is my recollection, Your Honor.

The Clerk:
That is correct.

The Court:
1949. And what pleading is defendant going to trial on? 

Mr. McGregor:
First amended answer filed December 2.

The Court:
December 6, did you say?

Mr. McGregor:
December 2.

The Court:
Do you want to have some witnesses sworn? Call all 

the witnesses on both sides and have them sworn.

Mr. McGregor:
May it please the Court, I prefer that the witnesses be 

called by name rather than a general designation, if you 
please.

Mr. Ramey:
Julius Brown, Otis Scott, C. A. Lemmons, Alvin Baum- 

bach, William Farris, J. C. Jackson, Mr. Hatch, R. C. Hick­
man, W. A. Kirk.



21

Mr. McGregor:
Mr. Morgan, Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Boelsche. I beg your 

pardon, that is pronounced Boelsche.

We have one other witness, perhaps two. They will be 
engineers, Your Honor, if we find that we need to use 
them. They are not here at the moment. And we may 
have other witnesses along that line, but I presume the 
Court will not force us to bring that type witness in at 
the present time.

The Court:
Any witness on either side may come in later if they 

are not here now.

Swear the witnesses.

(The witnesses were sworn.)

The Court:
Is the rule invoked?

Mr. McGregor:
The defendant invokes the rule.

The Court.
That means that the witnesses, other than the parties to 

the suit, will remain outside the court room but within 
call of the bailiff. You will find places out in the hallway 
to sit.

Mr. McGregor:
Mr. Boelsche, you are a party to the suit so you do not 

have to leave the court room, and Mr. Lemmons, you do 
not have to leave either.



22

The Court:
You may state your case for the plaintiff, please.

Mr. Durham:
If the Court please, jurisdiction is alleged under Sec­

tion 24, Title 28 of the United States Code and Section 41.

The Court:
Section what?

Mr. Durham:
Section 24, Title 28, and Sections 41 and 43 of Title 8, 

14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, 
and Section 274 D of the Judicial Code.

The Court:
You say Title 8 or 28?

Mr. Durham:
Title 8. And also 28, too, Your Honor.

The Court:
All right. I suppose there is no dispute about the juris­

diction?

Mr. Durham:
No. There are no pleadings attacking the jurisdiction, 

Your Honor. The cause of action is—

Mr. McGregor:
I might say that process has never been served on the 

defendant, but we will waive that because actually its 
agents are here.



23

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, the alleged cause of action is in the illegal 

discrimination in the operation of the LaGrange Independ­
ent School District in that certain educational facilities are 
furnished the students in the school maintained for whites 
and those same facilities or similar facilities or substantial 
facilities of the same character and kind are not furnished 
to the Negro students.

The allegation, the cause of action alleged is to the 
effect that there has been purposeful discrimination in the 
furnishing of facilities for the education of the negro stu­
dents in the LaGrange Independent School District and 
that certain subjects are taught in the white school which 
are necessary and required in an accredited high school. 
That those subjects are not taught and have not been 
taught for many years in the school provided for negroes.

That there are certain facilities, for instance, the lab­
oratory and an efficent library, work shop and facilities 
for playground and various other facilities set out in de­
tail which are furnished to students in the white school 
but are not furnished to negroes in what is known as the 
Randolph Colored School. And we allege that that sys­
tem of discrimination and refusal to furnish those facilities 
is based upon race and color. And we allege that the de­
fendants, as administrative officers or officers of the State 
of Texas, have been pursuing and intend to pursue that 
course in the future.

We ask for a declaratory judgment and for a writ of in­
junction enjoining and restraining the defendants, their 
successors in office from further illegally discriminating 
against the plaintiffs because of race and color.



24

The Court:
You are not complaining of segregation of the races? 

You are complaining that the negro race is not furnished 
with the same facilities and so forth as the white. Is 
that what you are complaining?

Mr. Durham:
I do not say we are not complaining of segregation. We 

say that the segregation statute as it is applied in this 
instance is unconstitutional, as it applies to this plaintiff.

The Court:
The reason I mention it is because you did not mention 

it in your statement.

Mr. Durham:
Yes, sir.

Your Honor, we say that the segregation statute is 
unconstitutional as it applies to this plaintiff, and the man­
ner in which it is applied.

The Court:
I see. The defendant may state his case.

Mr. McGregor:
May it please the Court, we in effect answer the allega­

tions as made by the plaintiff herein and as I understand 
his pleadings, there is no issue made here, certainly from 
his prayer, on the question that you asked, the segregation 
question.

In any event, we allege that under the laws of the State 
of Texas that such a system is set up in that separate 
schools are maintained in the state. We allege that it is 
a separate independent school district created by a special



25

act of the legislature of Texas in 1921, having the power, 
function, duties, of—that is, comparable to a town or vill­
age.

Further, we answer that the school facilities afforded 
the negroes in the LaGrange Independent School District 
not only in most instances exceed but in all instances are 
equal, taking the school facilities as a whole in the district, 
and we deny and allege affirmatively to that proposition of 
the plaintiff. That is the case.

The Court:
Any further statements?

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

The Court:
You may proceed for the plaintiff.

Mr. McGregor:
There is one thing, of course, that the plaintiff’s counsel 

failed to call the Court’s attention to in his statement that 
I want the Court to bear in mind. That is, that this is 
set up as a class suit.

The Court:
You mean the plaintiff claims it for himself and those 

similarly situated?

Mr. McGregor:
He so alleges, yes.

Mr. Durham:
Call Julius Brown.



26

JULIUS EDWARD BROWN, was called as a witness on 
behalf of the plaintiff and, having been first duly sworn, 
testified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. State your name, please.
A. Julius Edward Brown.
Q. How old are you?
A. Fifty-two years old.
Q. Are you married?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you the father of any children?
A. Father of seven.
Q. What is your youngest child’s name?
A. Youngest child’s name is Chloe Corine.
Q. How old is she?
A. Seventeen past.
Q. Where do you live? Where is your home?
A. Now?
Q. I say, where is your home?
A. My home is in LaGrange, Texas.
Q. Do you own it or—
A. I own it.
Q. Do you pay taxes in the LaGrange Independent 

School District?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you lived in the LaGrange Indepen­

dent School District?
A. I have lived there—I have owned my own property 

five years.
Q. How long did you live there before you owned your 

property?
A. I lived there 16 years.



27

Q. Did your children attend school in the LaGrange 
Independent School District up until the year 1948?

A. Well, excusing some time while I was on the edge 
of town, but after I got in the district my kids been going 
for the last 12 years.

Q. Are you employed now?
A. I am.
Q. Where are you employed?
A. I am employed at Port Lavaca.
Q. How long have you been employed in Port Lavaca?
A. Since June 5.
Q. Now, were you employed in Fort Worth a short 

time after and during 1948?
A. I was.
Q. Now, during practically all of the time that you 

lived in the LaGrange Independent School District have 
you worked away from LaGrange and lived in LaGrange?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you your household furniture now in La­

Grange?
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
I dislike to object to leading questions, but—

The Court:
Do not lead him, Counsel.

Q. State whether or not you have maintained the home 
in LaGrange Independent School District since you pur­
chased your home five years ago?

A. I have stayed there, yes, sir.
Q. Is that your homestead?
A. That is my homestead.
Q. Now where is your youngest child going to school 

now?



28

A. At Fort Worth.
Q. Now, before you went to Fort Worth did you know 

Mr. C. A. Lemmons, the superintendent of the LaGrange 
Independent School District?

A. I did.
Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. C. A. 

Lemmons as superintendent of the LaGrange School Dis­
trict with reference to certain subjects being taught your 
two children?

A. I did.
Q. What were the names of those two children?
A. Chloe Corine and Vivian Alpha.
Q. Were they then attending what is known as the 

Randolph High School for Colored in LaGrange?
A. They were.
Q. What subjects, if any, did you talk to Mr. Lem­

mons about?
A. Chemistry and biology were the two subjects.
Q. Were you familiar with the colored school at that 

time and the facilities therein?
A. I was.
Q. Was there a chemical laboratory in the school?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you talk to Mr. Lemmons about your child 

taking chemistry, or your children?
A. I did, my child.
Q. Tell the Court what you said to Mr. Lemmons as 

superintendent and what he said to you, if anything, with 
reference to the subject of chemistry being taught your 
child?

A. He asked me when I talked to him, was there any­
thing I had to say. I told him I did. He said what was it. 
I said, it seems they don’t have any convenience at the 
school now to teach my child. After they have dismissed 
their children in the evening would they mind to drill



29

my kid over her subjects which she is now neglecting, be­
fore she goes to Prairie View. He said, are you expecting 
to send her to Prairie View? I said I did. He said, what 
subjects are they? I said, chemistry and biology.

Q. Did Mr. Lemmons furnish a teacher or a laboratory 
for your children to be taught cheimstry?

A. Not as I know of.
Q. Well, was one placed in the school, the colored 

school?
A. A teacher was placed there.
Q. Was a laboratory placed there?
A. No, sir.
Q. Then in order to obtain a training for your children 

in chemistry, where did you send them?
A. To Fort Worth, I. M. Terrell School.
Q. Do you pay for that?
A. No, sir. We was to pay for it but since my wife 

would have to go there to keep from paying for it, we 
moved to Fort Worth temporarily to be with the children 
when they went to school.

Q. You did not want to send your children up there 
alone?

A. No, sir.
Q. And you intend, as soon as your child has com­

pleted school, to go back to LaGrange?
A. That is right.
Q. Now were you familiar with the playground of the 

Randolph Colored School?
A. I am.

Mr. McGregor:
May I ask this witness a question on voir dire for a 

moment?

The Court:
Yes.



30

(By Mr. McGregor):
Q. When was the last time you saw it, Mr. Brown? 
A. Last time I saw the playground?
Q. Yes.
A. This coming Wednesday will be three weeks ago.

Mr. McGregor:
All right, go ahead.

Q. Will you please describe the playground and what 
facilities, if any, are there on the playground and were 
there three weeks ago. Now, that is, the negro school.

A. Well, I never saw much. No more than the sand 
hills were there then and are there now, and what little 
playground they have must be back towards—there is a 
colored fellow has a home there—if any.

Q. Now have you had occasion in the last three or four 
weeks to go in the building?

A. I have not gone in there.
Q. You have not been in the building?
A. I have not, not yet.
Q. Now, do you know Vivian Alpha Brown?
A. Do I know her?
Q. Yes.
A. I ought to, she is my child.

Mr. Durham:
We pass the witness, Your Honor.

Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Where were you born, Mr. Brown?
A. In Fayette County.
Q. And where in Fayette County?



31

A. Well, I was born out about seven miles in the 
country from LaGrange.

Q. What year were you married?
A. I married in 1919 on the sixteenth day of February. 
Q. Where?
A. Married at Katy, Texas.
Q. And where did you live that year?
A. 1919?
Q. Yes.
A. I stayed half of the year in Katy, Texas, and lived 

the other half in Williamson County.
Q. Where did your wife come from?
A. Born in Winchester, Texas.
Q. Where is that?
A. About 16 or 18 miles from LaGrange, northwest. 
Q. Was her father a farmer?
A. He was.
Q. Did he own property in LaGrange, too?
A. He has.
Q. As a matter of fact, this house in LaGrange was 

given to your wife by her father, wasn’t it?
A. It was not.
Q. How did you buy that house?
A. With cash money. I bought it from Mr. Moorhouse. 
Q. The property is in your wife’s name?
A. At the time being, yes.
Q. But it was bought with your money?
A. With mine and her money and the childrens’ money. 
Q. When was it that you left LaGrange after this 

conversation with Mr. Lemmons?
A. I left there on the twenty-eighth of December, 

November, last year.
Q. As a matter of fact, you went from LaGrange to 

Texas City, didn’t you?
A. I worked in Texas City the whole while I was in 

LaGrange.



32

Q. Did you live down at Texas City?
A. I worked down there and had to stay down there. 

I couldn’t go backward and forward.
Q. Well, did you work there?
A. I worked there.
Q. Did you live there?
A. I do at the time being.
Q. Were your wife and daughter there with you?
A. My wife and daughter was staying at LaGrange.
Q. At that time?
A. That is right.
Q. When was it that your wife and daughter moved to 

Fort Worth?
A. Moved to Fort Worth in—I am not positive of the 

time but it was directly after school term opened up. About 
three weeks after this misunderstanding came in La- 
Grange.

Q. Now, in other words, they must have moved to 
Fort Worth sometime in January of 1948, is that correct?

A. I am not positive.
Q. Well, when did they move up there?
A. Well, I don’t know when.
Q. Well, did you move them up there?
A. No, I didn’t. We did not move up there, understand. 

They went up there and stayed with my son.
Q. I know you know the technical meaning of that 

now, but I just want to know when they went up there 
if you don’t want to say “moved up.”

A. I wouldn’t know positively.
Q. Who do they live with now?
A. We have a house rented now.
Q. You are now renting a house up there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how long did you work in Texas City?
A. I worked in Texas City better than three years.



33

Q. Were you working at Texas City before you had 
this purported conversation with Mr. Lemmons?

A. I was.
Q. You were. Now, after the conversation with Mr. 

Lemmons and after your wife moved to Fort Worth, how 
long did you work at Texas City?

A. I worked at Texas City from January to twenty- 
eighth—twenty-seventh of November.

Q. I will have to ask you to state that again. I cannot 
follow you. You worked when?

A. From January, some time in January till the twenty- 
seventh of November.

Q. Of 1948?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And where did you go from Texas City?
A. To Fort Worth.
Q. And have you been in Fort Worth since?
A. I have just left there two weeks ago.
Q. In other words, from September 27, 1948, up until 

two weeks ago you have been working in Fort Worth?
A. I don’t understand you.
Q. Well, I want to see if I understand you. You stayed 

down at Texas City till September 27?
A. No, sir. I said November.
Q. Twenty-seventh of November, 1948?
A. From January till November 27, 1948.
Q. And then you went to Fort Worth?
A. I went to Fort Worth.
Q. Who did you work for up there?
A. I worked for the—just in a minute. Give me a 

chance to think. I worked for Mr. Jack Weildman on 
North Main, used car lot.

Q. How long did you work for him?
A. I worked for him about a month, little better than 

a month.



34

Q. Well, you have been there now nearly 12 months. 
Where else did you work in Fort Worth?

A. I worked for Sandberg Motor Company. Started 
on January 3.

Q. Of this year?
A. This year and worked up until June 1. I left there 

and I went to Port Lavaca and got a job and worked at 
Port Lavaca since June 5.

Q. And you have been down at Port Lavaca since 
June 5?

A. I have been working at Port Lavaca since June 5.
Q. How many times have you been up to Fort Worth 

since June 5?
A. I imagine I have been up there six different times.
Q. Who are you working for at Port Lavaca?
A. I. G. Audish Construction Company out of Hous­

ton.
Q. This house in LaGrange, is it rented?
A. The house I own in LaGrange, my son is staying in 

it.
Q. What is his full name?
A. Julius Edward Brown.
Q. Same as yours?
A. Same as mine.
Q. Now, you said you took Vivian to Fort Worth and 

put her in school because she could not get chemistry at 
this school at LaGrange. Did she take chemistry at Fort 
Worth?

A. She must do.
Q. I am not asking what she must do I am asking if 

she does?
A. Yes, sir, she did.
Q. She took chemistry at Fort Worth?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You know that as a fact?
A. I know it as a fact.



35

Q. What was the other girl’s name?
A. Chloe. She was not presently ready for chemistry.
Q. Was she younger?
A. Yes, sir, was not the grade this other one was.
Q. And where is she in school now?
A. In I. M. Terrell School in Fort Worth.
Q. Do you own an automobile?
A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. Where have you got it registered?
A. In Victoria, Texas.
Q. How did you happen to register it down there?
A. I bought it there.
Q. You showed that you lived in Victoria on that 

automobile registration?
A. I bought it there. I can drive it there.
Q. I am asking you a very simple question. Did you 

register that car in Victoria?
A. I registered it when I bought it.
Q. You have got a certificate of title on it?
A. I have one but the man that loaned me the money 

holds the certificate of title until I pay him the money 
back.

Q. What did you say on that certificate of title as to 
where you live?

A. I showed that I live in Fort Worth.
Q. I see. Have you bought any furniture on the install­

ment plan lately?
A. I bought furniture in Fort Worth on the installment 

plan.
Q. Did you sign an installment plant contract for that 

furniture?
A. I don’t know what it was, but I signed a contract.
Q. Where did you show on your contract that you 

lived?
A. On the north side of Fort Worth, 3000 Prospect.



36

Q. I see. Who is George E. Brown?
A. My son.
Q. How old is he?
A. He is twenty-three past.
Q. I see. Where does he live?
A. He lives on Refugio Street.
Q. He lives at Fort Worth, 3113 Refugio Street, in Fort 

Worth?
A. Right, sir.
Q. Before you rented the house that you are living in 

now at Fort Worth, where did you live in Fort Worth?
A. Lived with my son George.
Q. At the address I have just recited?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you got a telephone in the house where you 

live now?
A. Not where I live now, there is not one in there.
Q. Not one in there. Did you pay your poll tax last 

year?
A. I didn’t pay that last year. I paid the year before 

that.
Q. Where did you pay the year before last?
A. In LaGrange.
Q, I see. You didn’t pay any last year?
A. Didn’t pay any last year.

Mr. McGregor:
I believe that is all.

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Do you intend to return to your home as soon as 

your girl finishes school?
A. As soon as the little one in Fort Worth finishes 

school I am hoping to return back to LaGrange.



37

Re-Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. You intend to remain in Fort Worth then until 

the younger one finishes school?
A. Until the younger one finishes school.
Q. What grade is she in now?
A. She is finishing tenth grade.

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. If Mr. Lemmons, the superintendent, had furnished a 

laboratory and teacher for chemistry for your child would 
you have moved temporarily to Fort Worth?

A. Never would have. I would have stayed in La- 
Grange.

Mr. Durham:
That is all.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Mr. McGregor:
At this time the defendants move for dismissal on the 

ground that this plaintiff, alleging that he has an interest 
in this litigation, alleging that he represents class, that 
the evidence now affirmatively shows that he has 
moved away from the district and has been gone more 
than two years therefrom. That he has testified that the 
one particular child that he requested a specific course for 
has now finished school. That the other child is now in 
school at Fort Worth where he intends to remain until 
she finishes that school. And because of the reason that



38

it is evident that this plaintiff does not have sufficient 
interest to support a class suit for the members of class. 
We move that the case be dismissed.

The Court:
Anything you want to say about it?

Mr. Durham:
No, sir.

The Court:
I will take the motion with the case.

Mr. Durham:
All right. Call George Scott.

GEORGE SCOTT, was called as a witness on behalf 
of the plaintiff and, having been first duly sworn, testi­
fied as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Mr. McGregor:

I object to this testimony being admitted here for any 
purpose because of the motion which I have just recited in 
the record.

The Court:
Well, I will overrule the objection.

Q. State your name, please.
A. George Scott.
Q. Where do you live?
A. LaGrange.



39

Q. Do you live in the LaGrange Independent School 
District?

A. Yes, sir. I live just out from LaGrange about nine 
miles in the rural area from LaGrange, but I am in the 
LaGrange District.

Q. Do you own any property in Fayette County?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Real estate?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you pay taxes on it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are a member of the negro race?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any children?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many?
A. You mean in school?
Q. Of school age?
A. Well, at this time, now, I have only two in school, 

this year.
Q. What are their names?
A. Doris.
Q. How old is Doris?
A. She is about 16.
Q. What is the youngest child’s name?
A. George, Jr.
Q. How old is George, Jr.?
A. I think he is about 13. My wife always keeps track 

of those. I cannot tell you exactly.
Q. Is he now attending the Randolph Colored School 

in the LaGrange Independent School District?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Scott, have you had occasion to go up to this 

school, the Randolph Colored School in the LaGrange In­
dependent School District recently?

A. Yes, sir, I have.



40

Q. When were you there last?
A. Well, it is about—week before last. I don’t know. 

Thursday or Friday night. They had a PTA meeting there.
Q. Have you had an occasion in the last week or ten 

days to observe and see the campus of this school, the 
Randolph Colored School?

A. Well, in part, yes, sir.
Q. Do they have a playground there for the children?
A. Playground is very poor.
Q. Well now, the Court does not know about “poor.” 

Will you describe to the Court the condition as you ob­
served it of the school campus or playground?

A. Well, they have a very small playground there for 
the children.

Q. Is it sodded or rough or smooth?
A. It is kind of rough.
Q. Do they have any facilities like swings or things of 

that kind for the children?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you had an occasion to observe the new 

Elementary School that has been recently built there for 
whites?

A. No, sir.
Q. You did not work on that school, did you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now have you been inside of the Randolph Colored 

School recently?
A. Nothing more than the gymnasium.
Q, Will you describe to the Court what is on the in­

side of the gymnasium at the Randolph Colored School?
A. Well, they have the kitchen in there.
Q. They have got a kitchen in there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What else do they have in the gymnasium?
A. They have what I would call it a balcony where 

they speak and one thing and another.



41

Q. A balcony?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do they have anything else in there?
A. Some chairs.
Q. Anything else?
A. That is about all that I seen.
Q. That is all that is in there. Now, your children are 

going to that school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, do you know whether or not the food is 

prepared there in that kitchen or is it brought from some­
where else?

A. Well, I understand that the children say it is 
brought—
Mr. McGregor:

I object to that.
Mr. Durham:

A. Otherwise I cannot answer.
Q. Now, do you know Julius Brown?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to Dallas with him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I believe that you and Julius Brown and several 

of the other colored citizens of LaGrange, Texas, came 
to Dallas and employed an attorney?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the name of that attorney?
A. I wrote it down but I don’t believe I have got it 

with me.
Q. What lawyer did you talk with when you got to 

Dallas?
A. Mr. Durham.
Q. You colored citizens came up to Dallas and 

employed a lawyer is that right?



42

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this lawsuit was filed by Julius Brown for the 

colored citizens?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the LaGrange Independent School District?
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Durham:
That is all.

Cross Examination.
By Mr. McGregor:

Q. May I have your full name, please?
A. George Scott.
Q. You have been living in Fayette County a long time, 

haven’t you?
A. Yes, sir, quite a while.
Q. Were you born there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you bom?
A. Out from-—down out from Ellinger.
Q. Which way?
A. Well—
Q. Toward the river or up country?
A. Well, it is south of LaGrange. Ellinger is south of 

LaGrange.
Q. I say, were you born right at Ellinger?
A. No, sir, it is about three miles—oh, must have been 

four and a half to five miles.
Q. From Ellinger?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Towards the river?
A. Well, it is towards the river.
Q. You leave the Columbus Road and go down to Ellin­

ger?



43

A. Going to Ellinger you leave the Columbus Road to 
the right.

Q. You go off the right of it there and go down towards 
the river?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to school up there when you were a boy? 
A. Yes, sir, I went to school there. Not at Ellinger, 

another school before at Halstead.
Q. And that is close to Ellinger?
A. No, sir, that is closer to LaGrange.
Q. That school is not in existence any more, is it?
A. No, sir. That is in the LaGrange District now. They 

have torn the school down.
Q. And all the pupils from down there where you used 

to go to school go to LaGrange, don’t they, all the colored 
people?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they are all brought in there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now do you live in the town of LaGrange now? 
A. No, sir.
Q. Where do you live?
A. I live at what they call Blackjack.
Q. Tell us where that is?
A. That is out on the old road between eight and 

nine miles.
Q. To the northwest of LaGrange?
A. I would call it northwest.
Q. Is that on the Giddings Road?
A. No, on the old Flatonia Road.
Q. Are you farming?
A. Yes, sir, just a little.
Q. Does the school bus come by your place?
A. It does now, yes, sir.
Q. I cannot hear you.
A. Yes, sir.



44

Q. Is that for negro children, the bus that comes by your 
place?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Pretty good bus, isn’t it?
A. It is now.
Q. Well, that is when we are talking about, now.
A. Yes.
Q. It is a good bus, isn’t it?
A. Yes, sir, I think so.
Q. And it is just the same as that used for the white 

folks?
A. Just the same.
Q. Yes. The same kind of bus, just exactly the same?
A. Oh, yes, sure.
Q. Are there any negro children in your neighborhood 

picked up by that bus?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they are picked up regularly and taken to 

school on time, are they?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now have you had occasion to go down to LaGrange 

in the last few days and see the Randolph Colored School?
A. Yes, sir. I have been past it often but I have not 

been inside of the rooms since—
Q. You have just seen the outside?
A. Yes. I haven’t been in anything but the gymnasium.
Q. As a matter of fact, that school has been under 

construction for the last 12 months?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The Independent School District has been building 

a new school for the negro children?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it has been quite a sizeable construction pro­

gram, hasn’t it?
A. Yes, sir. They have built a right good addition on to 

that school.



45

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce at this time an elevation of the school 

prepared by the architect at the time of the construction.

(The elevation of the school was marked as “Defendant’s 
Exhibit 1” and received in evidence.)

Q. Now I will ask you—you recognize that, don’t you, 
Scott?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is a picture of the Randolph Colored School 

now at LaGrange, isn’t it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know what grades are taught in that school?
A. Twelfth.
Q. What?
A. To the twelfth, I understand.
Q. You mean from the bottom to the twelfth?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They are all in there. By the way, when you were 

going to school there as a boy were all twelve grades in 
your school then?

A. We didn’t teach that far.
Q. You didn’t get that far?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now was it daytime or nighttime when you went to 

this gymnasium?
A. It was night.
Q. Were the lights on?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now they had big fine lights hung to the ceiling, 

didn’t they?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they were hung all over this magnificent 

gymnasium, weren’t they?



46

A. Yes, sir.
Q;. And those light globes were protected with big 

screens so that the basket balls couldn’t hit those globes, 
weren’t they?

A. I didn’t pay any attention to that.
Q. Well, you saw it before, didn’t you?
A. Yes, sir, but I don’t know, sir. I would not dispute 

that it isn’t. I didn’t pay that much attention. I was in a 
meeting anyway.

Q. Well, it was well illuminated in the gymnasium, 
wasn’t it?

A. Oh, yes, sir, it was fine.
Q. Did you go back behind the stage to the bath­

rooms on either side behind the stage?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know that in behind the stage on either side 

there are shower baths and toilets and lavatories for the 
boys and girls?

A. No more than what they tell me.
Q. Well, did you go and see?
A. No, sir, I didn’t.
Q. Did you go in the kitchen?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now the kitchen had sound proof ceilings, didn’t it?
A. Yes, sir, it was ceiled.
Q. Very finely finished, wasn’t it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Beautiful kitchen, wasn’t it?
A. Yes, sir, nice kitchen.
Q. And the wall was yellow pine, tongue and groove, 

V-jointed, wasn’t it?
A. Well, I can’t tell you that.
Q. Well, you saw that wall?
A. Yes, sir, but I don’t know the description of that. 

I am honest about that. That I didn’t pay any attention 
to, I will tell you.



47

Q. Well, it was a wood panel wall, wasn’t it?
A. Yes. I know it is painted but I am talking about 

that I didn’t pay any attention to tell you just exactly 
how that is, but I will say it is nice in there.

Q. And at one end they had a big deepfreeze, didn’t 
they?

A. Well now, I don’t know, sir, about that. I didn’t 
recognize that.

Q. And a large gas range on the other side?
A. I seen the gas range, yes, sir.
Q. And it had a big sink and dishwashing area on the 

other side of the room, didn’t it?
A. I don’t believe I went that far. I went as far as 

the kitchen.
Q. I mean inside the kitchen. Didn’t you see the sink in 

the kitchen and drying trays?
A. I don’t believe I did.
Q. Well, if you don’t remmeber, that is all right.
A. No, sir, I don’t really. Now I know that the part 

I seen in there I noticed there were flies in there. You 
know, that didn’t look so good. It wasn’t screened.

Q. Well, didn’t you go over and look in the corner 
and see the screens lying in the corner waiting to be 
put on?

A. No, sir, I didn’t see that.
Q. As a matter of fact, they are still working on the 

school building, aren’t they?
A. I don’t know, sir. I saw them the other day carrying 

some benches up there, but I don’t know where they were 
from.

Q. By the way, when your counsel asked you a while 
ago whether you worked on that job, you worked on jobs, 
didn’t you, once in a while?

A. Yes, sir, but I didn’t ever work on that. I had been 
sick.



48

Q:. What kind of work do you do on a job like that?
A. You mean to say like that job?
Q. Yes. Your counsel said to you that you didn’t work 

on that job. If you work on heavy construction what kind 
of work do you do? Are you a bricklayer, a cement man, 
a finisher, a woodworker?

A. No, sir. I can work cement.
Q. Are you a cement finisher?
A. I would not say I was a cement finisher.
Q. Can you lay the reinforcing iron cement?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you do general carpentry work?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you do any kind of steel work?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice what kind of floor there was in that 

gymnasium?
A. Well, it seemed to me like it is a hardwood floor. 

Now I would not say that for sure.
Q. It has got a pretty floor, hasn’t it?
A. It is a pretty floor.
Q. And that covers the whole area where the basket 

ball is to be played?
A. Yes, sir, it is all over that area.
Q. And that gymnasium is about 140 feet long, isn’t it? 
A. I don’t know just exactly how many feet, but it is 

a good long one.
Q. Plenty long?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it has a stage up at one end?
A. That is what I was talking about.
Q. That is what you called the balcony. That is the 

stage where the students can put on their plays?
A. That is right.
Q. And it has wings where the curtains can be put? 
A. It is fine.



49

Q. And it has places for the spotlight to illuminate the 
actors, hasn’t it?

A. I don’t know, sir, I didn’t see that.
Q. You are acquainted with this new modern kind of 

heating apparatus where they hang it on the ceiling and 
have a big electric fan to blow the heat down to where the 
people are?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. They have them blowing all over the place?
A. Yes. But they cut them off that night.
Q. And in the summertime they are better than the 

ordinary heating system because you can use the fans to 
cool the air.
Mr. Durham:

We object to that because there is no proper predicate 
laid.
The Court:

I think it is not improper cross examination.
Q. In the summertime all you have to do is turn off the 

heat and then your fans act as circulators?
A. Well, I haven’t used any of them and don’t know 

anything about them.
Q. Was it a cold night when you were up there?
A. It wasn’t so cold but they had the heat on and we 

couldn’t hear. Mr. Jackson went to cut it off.
Q. Did they have it on for heat or ventilation?
A. I don’t know. It wasn’t cold enough for heat.
Q. Well, they probably just had it on for ventilation?
A. Might have been.
Q. You did not feel any heat coming out of it?
A. No, sir.
Q. As a layman do you know that they could turn those 

fans on and use them as a simple air circulator in warmer 
weather. Do you know that as a layman?



50

A. Well, I have seen it done in stores.
Q. In what?
A. In stores. I have seen that.
Q. You had seen them used as circulators?
A. But I don’t know anything about that myself.
Q. I am asking if you ever saw them used as air cir­

culators in hot weather?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. George Livingstone has got one in his place, hasn’t 

he?
A. I don’t know about that, but I know Mr. Rosenstein 

has got one.
Q. Now that is a big nice entrance to this gymnasium 

over here, isn’t it, Mr. Scott? Over here on this side. 
That is a big nice double door recessed into the wall as 
you come into the gym, isn’t it?

A. Yes, sir. You mean on the side?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, sir. I seen two doors over there.
Q. You went in that door, didn’t you?
A. No, I went in the door there in the front.
Q. You mean the door from the school house side?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is another thing. You can get to that gym­

nasium from all the classrooms without getting out in the 
wet, can’t you? There is a roof over every one of those 
walks to the door?

A. I think it is, yes, sir, I think it is. I think this 
door on this far side you can’t get to do that. I don’t 
know. I don’t know, sir. I am afraid to say that. There 
is a roof around there, I believe, over that.

Q. You think there is one over there?
A. Yes, sir, but I didn’t pay that much attention.
Q. What kind of bricks is this school built out of?
A. Well, I cannot tell you that.



51

Q. Well, did you see it in the daytime?
A. Yes, I have. It seems to me like—what I mean, 

I can’t tell you what kind it was. It seems to me like it 
was brick, you know, with those holes in them, you know.

Q. This is a fully fireproof building, isn’t it, every bit 
of it, isn’t it?

A. I don’t know. I would not be able to tell you that. 
But I noticed those bricks.

Q. And the floors are all concrete and the walls are 
brick and masonry, aren’t they?

A. Yes, and that looks very nice, really nice.
Q. Now then, in this building there is another thing 

about it. Did you go inside and see that pretty patio 
between the two ells of the building, a little square place 
they have got inside where the outside corridors come 
all around it. Did you see that?

A. No, sir, I don’t believe.
Q. Did you walk into the school from the gymnasium?
A. No, sir. I went in—you mean into the gym? I went 

into the gym on this side door here and we went in there 
and just before they taken up the meeting we walked 
into the kitchen. From the kitchen we came back and we 
had the meeting.

Q. Did you, at any time during that meeting, go over to 
the classrooms and look at them?

A. No, sir. But one room we did go in, the one that has 
the moving picture machine and he had the machine and 
they wanted us to see it. It was in a big room. He opened 
the big room and got it out.

Q. You mean the place they call the library?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You had to go around this little square place inside 

there to get in, didn’t you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That garden like arrangement in there?



52

A. Yes, sir. We went right by that little garden like 
place at the time.

Q. And there was grass or it was seeded in there. 
Wasn’t there a sign on it which said to stay off of it?

A. I don’t know about the grass, but the teachers said 
they had some flowers.

Q. Now this library, did you go into it and look around?
A. No, sir. We was just standing in the runway there 

and they brought it out in that little opening, four or 
five feet of space, and we looked at it right there.

Q. Did you go in other classroom on this occasion?
A. No, sir.
Q. When was the last time you were ever in a class­

room at that school or have you ever been in one?
A. I haven’t been in these new rooms they built at all. 

I went to the school and went in there and went to the 
teachers—where the teachers was. Nice office, but I 
haven’t been in.

Q. You have not been in any of the new rooms then?
A. Not any of the new rooms except the gymnasium.
Q. Except the gymnasium?
A. Yes.
Q. When was the last time you were in any of the 

schoolrooms before. Now, by the way, these new school­
rooms are not entirely finished yet, are they?

A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. And so far as the present stage of completion that 

was just about finished in September, wasn’t it?
A. Well, let me see, I am going to tell you, I don’t 

know when that school was—-
Q. Well, did school open there this September?
A. Yes, sir. It was put off two weeks on account of—
Q. On account of what?
A. Picking cotton, but it was some time in September.
Q. But it was not put off on account of the building or 

anything. It was put off on account of picking cotton?



53

A. Yes, sir, picking cotton.
Q. Now when you were up there the other night isn’t 

it a fact that between this entrance around here to the 
gymnasium and all down here there are still signs of 
excavating and digging along there in front of that build­
ing where the sidewalk is shown on here?

A. I haven’t seen any digging.
Q. You did not see any digging?
A. No, sir. It was nice, anyhow.
Q. Oh, it was nice. I see. Do you know what kind of 

heat they have got in that building, this one?
A. No, sir, no more than those heaters that they have, 

you know, up in the roof there. What you was talking about 
a while ago.

Q. You don’t know what they have in the rest of the 
school in the way of heat?

A. No, sir, I don’t. I surely don’t.
Q. Did you talk to any of the teachers while you were 

up there at the meeting the other night?
A. Yes, sir. We was all in the meeting there.
Q. Do you know anything about the teacher’s certifi­

cate, whether they have certificates of one kind or another? 
A. Well, I understand one of them—

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we—

Mr. McGregor:
I am asking if he knows.

The Court:
If you know of your own knowledge you may answer.

A. One teacher there didn’t have it.
Q. Who is that?
A. Miss Simms.



54

Q. What does she teach?
A. I don’t know, sir. She was teaching what you might 

say, exercises or something like that, but since one of 
the teachers got sick she been teaching her class, I under­
stand.

Q. Oh, you mean just temporary?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you mean “exercises,” Calisthenics?
A. Yes, sir, I think so.
Q. Oh, you mean she was the physical education 

teacher?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is what the big name is for it.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know any of the other teachers there?
A. Yes, sir, I know of them.
Q. Do you know of your own knowledge their quali­

fications?
A. Well, no, not too much. They have all got degrees, 

but I don’t know what a degree is.
Q. Well, you don’t know that of your own knowledge?
A. No, sir.
Q, Do you know what courses are taught in that school?
A. I don’t all together know that.
Q. Pardon?
A. No, sir, I don’t all together know that. You will 

have to get that information from somebody else. The 
teachers, I guess, could tell you that.

Q. Are you president of the Parent Teachers Associa­
tion?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Pardon?
A. We haven’t met but one night, but I do want to 

be a member of that.
Q. You are a member or an officer. I cannot understand 

you.



55

A. No, sir, I am not an officer. I am just a member.
Q. How long have you belonged to the Parent Teachers 

Association?
A. I just met them one night.
Q. That is the first time you have been there?
A. Yes, sir, since it was organized there this year.
Q. What was the occasion of it? This fine new gym 

where you could have a place to meet. Was that why you 
happened to get it organized this year?

A. Well, I don’t know, sir, all together about that. 
The fact of it is I think they organized it just before the 
gymnasium was finished. I think they did.

Q. Well, it was organized this year, wasn’t it?
A. Yes, sir, they organized it this year.
Q. And this school building has been under construc­

tion for more than 12 months, hasn’t it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you lay any plans at the meeting the other 

night to buy any books for your library?
A. No, sir, we didn’t get that far.
Q. Did you have any discussion of it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you lay any plans to buy anything at all for 

the school at that meeting?
A. Well, that meeting was called specially to see about 

buying a machine to have a picture show at the school.
Q. Buying a machine?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And there were groups there that wanted to buy a 

moving picture machine so you could have pictures at 
the school?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you decide to buy the moving picture machine?
A. Well, they didn’t that night, but—
Q. Have you since decided to buy it?



56

A. They haven’t called the next meeting yet.
Q. You are going to have another meeting to see about 

it?
A. Yes, sir. We are going to have another meeting.
Q. Now, was there any discussion of purchasing any­

thing else for the school by the Parent Teachers Associa­
tion?

A. Well, I did mention to the teachers that there was 
a whole lot that we could buy by putting on some en­
tertainment. I used to work for the Mothers’ Club of the 
white people there in LaGrange for a number of years, 
and I told them I learned a whole lot because they talked 
to me a whole lot about it. I used to wash dishes for 
them. I told them how they all would come and what they 
would have to sell and that way the money all would 
be clear, and I told the Principal that that would be a fine 
way to get at this, to do something for our school.

Q. In other words, you knew that the Parent Teachers 
Association in this white school over the years had bought 
many things for that school or schools?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And so you gave them the benefit of your experience 

with the Parent Teachers Association in the white school?
A. Yes, sir. I mentioned to them also that I think we 

ought not to sit down all the time and just wait for the 
white people to do everything. We could show appreciation 
of what they had done by we doing something ourselves. 
And that is some of the plans that I mentioned.

Q. Now this piece of ground that the school sits on, that 
is on a well drained hillside, isn’t it, Mr. Scott?

A. Well, that is around a pretty bad place there 
especially when it is raining. It is sloped there and stays 
pretty wet.

Q. Isn’t it a fact that in behind the school building 
there is a gradual rise of better than 5 or 10 per cent where 
the school grounds are well drained?



57

A. Yes, sir, but it drains right down to the school?
Q. Down to the school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. But all of the playground used by the children is in 

behind the school, isn’t it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that is on a slope and is well drained?
A. It is on a slope but all the drainage comes there, 

drains down towards the school and it is a wet place 
whe nit is wet. It is very wet there when it is raining.

Q. As a matter of fact, the grounds around the school 
at LaGrange are wet when it rains and the school grounds 
there at LaGrange is wet when it rains?

A. It is wet when it rains. I mean, it seeps. That gravel 
hill seeps to our school there.

Q. I see. How many acres does this school sit on?
A. Well, I don’t know, sir, exactly.
Q. Five or six acres there?
A. No, sir, I don’t think so.
Q. I see. Have you, within the last three months, 

walked around behind the school there, on the play­
ground side?

A. No, sir, I have not been around there.
Q. You have not been there in the last three or four 

months?
A. No, sir.
Q. You don’t know what steps are being taken by 

the LaGrange Independent School District to begin to 
improve the grounds surrounding the school?

A. No, sir.

The Court:
We will take a recess of ten minutes.

(Short recess.)



58

The Court:
Be seated.

Mr. McGregor:
May I proceed, Your Honor?

The Court:
Yes, sir, you may proceed.

Q. Now, Mr. Scott, do you know whether or not this 
landscaping has as yet been put in or not?

A. Whether it what?
Q. This planting, do you know whether that has been 

put in or not? Do you know whether it is there or not?
A. No, sir, there is nothing in front of it like that.

The Court:
Speak out. I can’t hear you.

A. No, sir, I don’t know. What is that, a wall?
Q. That is supposed to be, at liberty of stating what 

the picture portrays, that is supposed to be some shrubs. 
Are they there or not?

A. I don’t know.
Q. Were they there yesterday?
A. I wasn’t there yesterday.
Q. Were they there the night you were there?
A. If they were there, I didn’t see them. I see some 

shurbs or something in that open place there.
Q. And there are trees there, aren’t there?
A. I don’t think there are no trees in front of it.
Q. Now, this part of the walk is there, isn’t it, right in 

there to that entrance, the sidewalk?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this part of the walk back into this entrance 

is in there, isn’t it, the concrete sidewalk?



59

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you say yes?
A. Concrete sidewalk?
Q. Yes.
A. Oh, well, if you will allow me, it is a walk all the 

way. There is a porch across there.
Q. So that much of it is already there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And do you know what kind of roof is on top of this 

building?
A. No, sir. Tin, I think. I don’t know whether that is 

tin or not up there.

The Court:
Speak up.

A. I don’t know whether that is tin or not on that 
building.

Q. You don’t know whether that is tin or not of your 
own knowledge?

A. That is tin, yes.
Q. What you mean is, it is a metal of some kind?
A. Yes, sir, sure.
Q. And you don’t know what kind of roof is on that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you walked along in front of the building to 

see what kind of casements these are to hold these win­
dows?

A. I think it is steel.
Q. Do you know what kind of roof is on those two ells 

that come back here?
A. No, sir. I think that is a galvanized roof, I think, on 

that building.
Q. The ell part of this building is part of the old build­

ing?



60

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know when those two ells were built, the 

year?
A. I know when it was built, but I can’t just call the 

year.
Q. Suppose I suggested 1934 or 1935. Would that help 

you?
A. Yes, sir, somewhere back that way, since Professor 

Randolph was teaching there.
Q. Professor Randolph was a very eminent teacher, 

wasn’t he?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is what the present school is named for, old 

Dr. Randolph who taught there for years?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. These are classroom doors here, are they?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this entranceway here is an areaway where 

you can walk through to the other side, isn’t it? It is open.
A. Yes, sir, that is open there.
Q. It is a corridor that goes through there?
A. Yes, sir, sure.
Q. And that is what is called an outside corridor, isn’t 

it. Or do you know?
A. I don’t know what it is called. It is an opening going 

through there.
Q. Do you know anything about the entrance require­

ments to get into this school?
A. No, sir.
Q. This school has in the one plant both the Elementary 

Department of the LaGrange Independent School District 
for negro children and the High School Department, 
doesn’t it?

A. I think they are using those rooms in the front 
there for—



61

Q. That was not quite my question. This plant, this 
whole unit, has in it the Elementary School facilities and 
the High School facilities, too, for the negro children, does 
it not?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know what the requirements are to get into 

the high school section of it?
A. No, sir. No, sir, I don’t.
Q. At the Parent Teachers Association meeting the 

other night did you discuss the question of whether or not 
the school was being run on the State Plan?

A. No, sir.
Q. You did not discuss any of those things at that 

meeting?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know what the requirements are for gradua­

tion from the high school?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about the text books that are 

supplied there, who supplies them?
A. No, sir, I don’t know anything about that.
Q. Do you know now what is presently taught in the 

school. That is to say, as to whether or not it is the 
regular curriculum that is taught in all the schools there 
in the district?

A. Well, I don’t.
Q. Of your own knowledge now I am asking you?
A. No, sir, I don’t.
Q. You don’t know of your own knowledge. Do you 

know the way the work is supervised in the classrooms of 
your own knowledge?

A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about the number of books 

in the library here for this school?
A. No, sir, I don’t.



62

Q. Do you know how books in the library of the La- 
Grange Independent School District have been purchased 
prior to the school year 1949-1950?

A. No, sir. I wasn’t connected with that.
Q. You had no connection with that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you even driven a school bus for the LaGrange 

Independent School District?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know anybody who does?
A. Oh, yes. We have drivers there.
Q. They have drivers there. Are they regularly em­

ployed drivers?
A. Yes, sir. They are driving every day when school 

is on.
Q. Now this school plat that is there before you, 

that is all on one level. There are no classrooms on an 
upper story there, are there?

A. What do you mean by—
Q. It is a ground level school. In other words, every 

classroom is on the ground floor?
A. Oh, I think so. Yes, sir.
Q. In other words, there are no upstairs classrooms?
A. No, sir, no upstairs classrooms.
Q. And all doors open out on the ground level as well 

as all windows?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know how many teachers are employed in 

the negro plant of the LaGrange Independent School 
District?

A. Well, not exactly, no, sir, I don’t. I don’t. That iy 
not connected with—

Q. You have not had any discussions of the number of 
teachers in your Parent Teachers Association?

A. No, sir.



Q. Who is the present Principal of the Randolph 
School?

A. Professor Hatch.
Q. Hatch?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. A Mr. Kirk came to LaGrange on last Saturday a 

week ago and inspected the school facilities. Did you 
accompany him?

A. Mr. who?
Q. Kirk?
A. No, sir.
Q. A Dr. Christopher came to LaGrange Independent 

School District just about a year ago or maybe ten months 
ago and inspected the school facilities. Did you accompany 
him?

A. No, sir.
Q. On today a week ago Dr. Christopher came to La­

Grange and inspected the school facilities. Did you ac­
company him?

A. No, sir.
Q. Are you acquainted with Dr Christopher?
A. I don’t think so.
Q. Did you know Mr. Kirk?
A. I met him once, sir.
Q. Where did you meet him?
A. Waco.
Q. That is the only time you have ever seen him?
A. That is the onliest time I have ever met him.
Q. Did you ever see him in LaGrange, Texas?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever see him in Fayette County?
A. No, sir.
Q. At the time you were in the gymnasium, the other 

night, in the kitchen, and you saw the facilities there, did 
you have any occasion to test them. That is, by turning



64

on the hydrant or using the gas stove or anything like 
that?

A. No, sir.
Q. Did you examine the equipment to see if it was 

functioning?
A. No, sir.
Q. You did not?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were there tables and chairs in the kitchen portion 

of the gymnasium on the occasion of the other evening?
A. Chairs in there, and I think there was a table or 

two in there. I believe there was a couple of tables in 
there. I don’t know just exactly how many.

Q. What kind of stove was it that was in the kitchen?
A. What kind of stove?
Q. Yes.
A. I don’t know, sir, whether it was a gas stove or oil 

stove.
Q. You didn’t examine it closer than that?
A. No, sir. But they have a stove in there. I don’t 

know what—
Q. Yes. When you said there were no screens on the 

windows there in the gymnasium, where were those win­
dows located that you were speaking about?

A. We were in the kitchen then. Someone spoke about 
those flies on there. That is why I noticed that.

Q. Flies on what?
A. They was on the,—you know, the string or what­

ever it was that the light hangs on, what came down on 
the stove. And I think the reason I paid attention, I 
think Henry Jackson spoke and said he had told Mr. Lem­
mons about that and said he was going to screen them.

Q. But you didn’t actually see the screens over there 
in the other corner?

A. No, sir.



65

Q. Let’s go back to my question. Where were those 
windows you said had no screens on them. Were they 
in the kitchen you were speaking of?

A. In the kitchen next to the outside—that last room. 
Some man was working on the Frigidaire at the time.

Q. There was a mechanic working on the refrigerator 
at that time?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. That refrigerator was only just put in there, wasn’t 

it?
A. I don’t know, sir, but he was working on it.
Q. And those were ordinary outside windows about 

waist level in the kitchen?
A. Yes, sir. On the west side of the gym.
Q. That was a maple floor in that gymnasium, wasn’t 

it?
A. I don’t know what kind of floor it was.
Q. But you said you thought it was hardwood floor? 
A. It looked like a hardwood floor to me. It looked like 

a hard floor.
Q. I see.
A. I would rather say it was a hard floor to my 

judgment.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all.

The Court:
Any further questions?

Mr. Durham:
If it please Your Honor.



66

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. I believe you stated that when those blowers were 

turned on there was so much noise you couldn’t hear what 
was going on?

A. No, sir, you couldn’t.
Q. And you said the school site where the building is 

situated, in rainy weather the water drains from the other 
portion of the campus?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then the school building is sitting on the por­

tion of the campus where the water accumulates from the 
drainage?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now with reference to what has been introduced as 

Defendant’s Exhibit No. 1, I will ask you to tell the Court 
what portion of this entire building has been recently con­
structed?

A. The gymnasium and these front rooms.
Q. The gymnasium and these front rooms?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now the remaining portion of that building extend­

ing back behind the building, I believe it runs something 
like this. As this pointer comes to this board, is that 
right?

A. Yes, sir, in that direction.
Q. All right. Ngw, counsel asked you with reference to 

this outside corridor. I will ask you—state whether or not 
it is open on both ends?

A. Yes, sir, it is open.
Q. That is, no enclosure?
A. No, sir, that is open.
Q. I will ask you whether or not each of the class­

rooms opens out into this open corridor?



67

A. Yes, sir, they do. But I don’t know whether there 
is a top on that or not.

Q. All right. Now each of the classrooms in the portion 
which you say has been recently constructed, there is an 
open corridor with no protection on each end of the 
corridor. There are no doors, no enclosure?

A. No, sir.
Q. And in leaving the classroom and going to the next 

classroom you come out of the classroom into this 
open corridor?

A. Yes, sir, some of the rooms.
Q. Yes, sir. And you go into the next room, is that right 
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, counsel asked you if this building was fire­

proof. I will ask you whether a portion of these back 
rooms, these old buildings, if that is not wood, some por­
tion of it?

A. Some portion of it.
Q. I will ask you whether or not there is a complete 

frame building back behind this newly constructed por­
tion in which the agricultural subjects are taught?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I will ask you whether there is not a wood 

stove in that building for the purpose of furnishing heat?

Mr. McGregor:
I regret to have to object to leading questions but— 

The Court:
That is a leading question. Objection sustained.

Mr. McGregor:
It is continually leading.

Mr. Durham:
Thank you. I won’t do that any more, your Honor.



68

Q. State whether or not, if you know, there is a frame 
building in behind this newly constructed portion which 
is used and is being used now for classroom work?

A. Well, I don’t know exactly what class. They did 
teach class in there last year, but I don’t know whether 
they are teaching class there now or not.

Mr. Durham:
Thank you. That is all, Your Honor.

The Court:
Stand aside. Call your next witness.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, in order to save time, my associate coun­

sel was present when these exhibits were made. There 
are a number of exhibits we hope to introduce at this 
time and we will save time by letting him introduce them. 
He will take over.

The Court:
All right.

Mr. Durham:
Call Mr. Hickman.

Mr. Tate:
They are numbered, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
What are you going to prove by this man?

Mr. Durham:
That he is the photographer who took these pictures 

and that they are true representations.



69

The Court:
Don’t look at them, Counsel, until they are offered in 

evidence and marked as exhibits.

Mr. McGregor:
Excuse me, Your Honor. All right, proceed. Thank 

you, sir.

R. C. HICKMAN, was called as a witness on behalf of 
the plaintiff and, having been first duly sworn, testified 
as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Tate:
Q. Will you state your full name, sir?
A. R. C. Hickman.
Q. What is your business?
A. Photographer.
Q. And where do you live, Mr. Hickman?
A. Dallas, Texas.
Q. How long have you been in the photographic busi­

ness?
A. Better than three years.
Q. And did you acquire your skill by training or by 

experience?
A. By training and experience.
Q. Now, Mr. Hickman, did you have occasion to take 

some pictures of schools in LaGrange, Texas, on or about 
November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. All right, sir. I show you this picture. What kind of 

camera did you you use, Mr. Hickman?
A. Professional speed graphic camera.



70

Q. And what kind of film did you use?
A. Super double X  professional film.
Q. And that is the ordinary camera and film for 

taking professional pictures?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I show you Exhibit No. 1—•

The Court:
Counsel, you will have a record that is not understand­

able unless you have them marked as exhibits and state 
what the exhibit is.
Mr. Tate:

This is Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1 and that is the west end 
of the white high school.

(Photographs were marked as “Plaintiff’s Exhibits 1 
through 36,” inclusive, for identification.)

Q. Mr. Hickman, I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 
1. Will you identify that picture and tell the Court if you 
took that picture on the twenty-sixth day of November, 
1949, at LaGrange, Texas?

A. It is the picture I took at LaGrange, Texas.
Q. And what does the picture represent, sir?
A. It is the white high school.
Q. And is that the whole high school or a portion of it? 
A. No, not the whole.
Q. Just a portion of it?
A. Sure.
Q. And there is shrubbery at the end of that building. 

Did you get the impression that shrubbery had been 
recently put there?

Mr. McGregor:
I hate to object to leading and suggestive questions, but 

I must do it, and I must also—



71

The Court:
That is a leading question. Objection sustained.

Mr. Tate:
We offer this in evidence, Your Honor.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1” was received in evidence, and 
is as follows:)

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 2, Mr. Hickman. 
Tell the Court whether you took that picture on the same 
occasion?

A. On the same occasion I took this picture.
Q. And what does that picture represent, sir?
A. The white high school.
Q. That represents the white high school. Is that the 

whole high school or one side of the high school?
A. This is just an entrance. I presume the front en­

trance or the side entrance.
Q. On the right of that picture there I see some 

swings, some devices. What are those devices?
A. They are swings and see-saws, you know, for kids 

to play with.
Q. On that same day, Mr. Hickman, did you have 

occasion to visit the negro school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And while you were there did you have occasion to 

walk around the campus there?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you observe any swings and see-saws on the 

campus of the negro school?
A. No, not of this nature at all.
Q. I see. All right, sir. Thank you.



72

The Court:
Are you offering this?

Mr. Tate:
I am offering that in evidence, Your Honor.

The Court:
Have you seen it, Counsel?

Mr. McGregor:
Yes, sir, I have seen it.

Mr. Tate, you are going to get us all mixed up with 
two sets of marked exhibits.

Mr. Tate:
They are going in in the same order.

Mr. McGregor:
One'has the reporter’s mark and one does not.

Mr. Tate:
Those are the ones we are putting in evidence, the 

ones with the reporter’s mark.

The Court:
You are just offering those that have the reporter’s 

mark on them?

Mr. Tate:
Yes, sir.

( “Plaintiff’s Exhibit 2” was received in evidence.)'

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 3. What does that 
represent?



73

A. This is also the white school showing the volley ball 
court in the foreground, the walk leading to the school, in 
front of it, trees and shrubbery on the right and also 
courts for playing games. I presume tennis or what have 
you.

Q. Now, did you go on the campus—

Mr. McGregor:
I move that be stricken from the record. It constitutes 

a presumption that the witness has given for which he 
is not qualified and also it is not responsive to the ques­
tion.

The Court:
What particular matter are you asking to be stricken? 

Mr. McGregor:
In reference to a statement that he assumes it is for 

volley ball or some sort of games.

Q. Now, Mr. Hickman—

The Court:
Just a minute, Counsel. I doubt if that could be admissi­

ble, what his assumption is. Objection sustained.

Mr. Tate:
All right, sir.

Q. Now on the left on that picture you see two posts 
with a net stretched between them. That is what?

A. That is for playing volley ball.
Q. On the right of the walk you see a wire screen on 

some posts and a court laid with cement. What is that?
A. That is a tennis court.



74

Q. On that same occasion did you visit the grounds of 
the negro high school in LaGrange, Texas?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you see a volley ball net on those grounds?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you see a tennis court?
A. No, sir, I did not.

Mr. Tate:
All right. Thank you. I offer this in evidence, Your 

Honor.

( “Plaintiff’s Exhibit 3” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 4. Did you take 
that picture on the occasion of November 26?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. It is a corridor where lockers are and—
Q. Just tell me what it is.
A. It is a picture of the corridor, the hallway.
Q. In what school?
A. In the white school.
Q. In the high school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it the high school or the elementary school?
A. Well, there are so many of these, like, I wouldn’t 

just—to be frank about it I wouldn’t say whether it was in 
the high school or the elementary school, but I know it is 
the white school.

Q. And at the right of the hall there you see several 
metal pieces. What are those?

A. Those are lockers.
Q. Did you visit the negro school on that day?
A. Yes, sir.



75

Q. Did you go inside of the school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you walk along the hall?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any metal lockers in the negro high 

school?
A. Nothing like this, sir.
Q. I see. On the left hand wall there are some racks. 

What are they?
A. They are tennis racquets.
Q. Did you see any such devices in the negro school 

when you visited it?
A. No, sir.

Mr. Tate:
Thank you. Your Honor, I offer this in evidence as 

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 4.

( “Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 4” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 5. Did you take 
that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. A chemical—I mean a—
Q. It is a classroom, is that correct?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. And where was that classroom located, in the white 

school or the colored school?
A. It is the white school.
Q. Did you visit the colored school on that same day? 
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any similar classroom to that in the 

negro school?
A. No, sir.



76

Mr. Tate:
All right. Your Honor, I offer this in evidence as a pic­

ture of the book keeping room in the white school.
Mr. McGregor:

What was that exhibit number?
Mr .Tate:

No. 5, sir.
(“Plaintiffs Exhibit 5” was received in evidence.)
Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 6. Did you take 

that picture on that occasion, Mr. Hickman?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. That is a music room.
Q. And where was that music room situated, on the 

campus of the negro or the white high school?
A. White school.
Q. Tell the Court what you see in that picture.
A. I see a piano, I see drums, horns and another in­

strument there. A cello, I guess it is. You play it with 
sticks, I know.

Q. Did you visit the negro high school on that same 
day?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go all over the high school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any similar or corresponding room for 

the teaching of music at the negro high school?
A. No, sir.

Mr. Tate:
Thank you. Your Honor, I offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 

6, the music room in the white high school.
(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 6” was received in evidence.)



77

Q. I hand you Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 7. Did you take 
that picture on the occasion of November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that picture represent?
A. That represents the school or the front of it. I 

guess it would be the front of it.
Q. Is that on the campus of the white school or the 

negro school?
A. It is the white school.
Q- And is that a true representation of the object 

that was before you at the time you took that picture?
A. It is.
Q. Was it taken in a normal light?
A. It was rather windy and sand was blowing that 

evening when I took this picture, but it is a true picture.
Q. The outlines and detail of that building are not dis­

torted?
A. Not distorted, sir.

Mr. Tate:
Your Honor, I offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 7, the new 

elementary school and the white school at LaGrange.

( Plaintiff’s Exhibit 7” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 8. Did you take 
that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. This is a corridor also.
Q. In what building? Is that a building for white or 

negro children?
A. It is—I believe it is the negro school.



78

The Court:
Speak out. I cannot hear you.

A. It is pretty hard for me to remember exactly.

Mr. McGregor:
The answer, as I understood, Your Honor, was he be­

lieved it was for negro children. Is that what you said?

A. I am not saying anything.

Mr. McGregor:
I am asking if that is what you said?

Mr. Tate:
I will ask the question.

The Court:
I would like to know what the witness said. What did 

the witness say?

(The answer was read as follows: “It is—I believe it 
is the negro school.” )

Q. All right. That picture was taken in a school build­
ing in LaGrange, is that correct?

A. That is correct.
Q. I ask you if you found any corridor enclosed in the 

negro school?
A. They were open.
Q. Is that an open corridor?
A. It is a closed one.
Q. All right. Then I ask you to reconsider and tell the 

Court whether that is a picture of the white school or the 
colored school?

A. It is a picture of the white school.



79

Mr. Tate:
Your Honor, I offer this in evidence as the corridor of 

the elementary school for white children at LaGrange, 
Texas.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 8” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 9. Did you take 
that picture?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is there such a thing in photography as making a 

picture in reverse?
A. Yes, there is. It happened in this case.
Q. And that is a picture in reverse?
A. Well, the only difference in a picture in reverse 

and the correct side is that the emulsion side or that the 
negative is actually turned over on the side to the 
emulsion on your paper. It doesn’t make any difference as 
far as the picture is concerned. Had there been writing on 
here, why the writing would have been backwards. But 
as far as the true photgraphy, this is just like it is.

Q. And if you hold it this way up to the light you 
see a true and exact representation, is that correct?

A. That is correct.
Q. What does the picture represent?
A. I—

Mr. McGregor:
I object to what the picture represents because it is 

now shown obviously that the picture is not a correct 
print and represents nothing.

Mr. Tate:
All right. If it please the Court, I will not offer that 

picture in evidence.



80

The Court:
Objection overruled.

Q. Is that a picture of the negro high school or the 
white high school?

A. That is the negro school.

Mr. Tate:
All right. Thank you very kindly.

Mr. McGregor:
I object to it as it has been shown conclusively that it 

is a reversed photograph and cannot be a correct represen­
tation of the thing which it attempts to protray.

The Court:
Objection overruled.

Mr. McGregor:
Note our exception.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 9” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 10. Did you take 
that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And what does that picture represent?
A. That is the other end of the colored school, the 

front.
Q. It is the front view of the colored school, is that 

correct?
A. That is correct.



81

Mr. Tate:
If the Court please, I offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 10, 

which is the front of the Randolph School for Colored 
Children in LaGrange.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 10” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 11. Did you take 
that picture on the occasion of November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. It is a corridor of the colored school or an open—I 

don’t guess you would call it a patio or something like 
that, but open.

Q. But that is the corridor in the negro school at La- 
Grange, Texas, is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Tate:
If the Court please, we offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 11, 

which is the corridor in the Randolph School for negroes 
at LaGrange, Texas.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 11” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 12. Did you take 
that picture on the occasion of November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. A classroom.
Q, Is that a classroom or library.
A. Library is what it is.
Q. And on that picture do you see a lending desk for 

taking out books?
A. Yes, sir.



82

Q. And do you see a desk for a teacher in the room?
A. Yes, sir, on the left.
Q. Did you go in the library? Is that the library for 

white or colored students?
A. That is white.
Q. Did you have occasion to go in the library of the 

school for negroes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any similar equipment as you see in 

that picture?
A. I did not.
Q. Was there a lending desk?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was there a desk for a teacher?
A. No, sir.

Mr. Tate:
All right. I think you. We present the Plaintiffs Exhibit 

No. 12, the library at the Senior High School for white 
students at LaGrange, Texas.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 12” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 13. Did you take that 
picture on that occasion?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. It is a classroom for little children.
Q. In the white or colored school?
A. White school.
Q. Would you regard that as a classroom or a library? 

Mr. McGregor:
Well now, Your Honor, this is an effort to cross examine 

this witness and to elicit by leading responses desired by 
counsel.



83

The Court:
Leading question. Objection sustained.

Mr. Tate:
All right.

Q. Did you visit any other classrooms in the elemen­
tary school for white children at LaGrange, Texas?

A. Yes, sir, I did some.
Q. Does that look like the rest of the classrooms in that 

building?
A. No.

Mr. McGregor:
Well, just a minute.

Q. In what—-

The Court:
What is the objection?

Mr. McGregor:
I make none, Your Honor. I beg your pardon.

Q. In what sense does it differ from the rest of the 
classrooms?

A. The books on the shelves and the larger tables.
Q. All right.

Mr. Tate:
If the Court please, we present this as Plaintiff’s Ex­

hibit No. 13, which is the library at the elementary school 
for white in LaGrange, Texas.



84

Mr. McGregor:
I don’t know whether the record reflects that or not. 

Counsel keeps repeating what the exhibit is supposed to 
reflect and I object to that being put in the record in that 
fashion because the record should reflect what the witness 
states and not counsel.

The Court:
When you offer it you can say what the witness said 

it was.

Mr. Tate:
Yes, sir.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 13” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 14. Did you take 
that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What does that represent?
A. That is the white high school library, too.
Q. Where did you take that picture?
A. In the white grammar school, elementary, rather. 
Q. And did you take two pictures of that room show­

ing two different angles of that room?
A. That is correct, sir. This is the other end of it. 

I see what the whole thing is now.
Q. What is that picture now?
A. That is the library.
Q. In what school?
A. The LaGrange Elementary School.
Q. For colored or white children?
A. White children.



85

Mr. Tate:
I present that as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 14 as described 

by the witness.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 14” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 15. Did you take 
that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. This is the typing room, is what it is.
Q. In the white or colored school?
A. This is in the colored school.
Q. All right. And what else is there?
A. It is a mimeographing machine. I imagine that is 

what it is.

Mr. McGregor:
I object to incorporating in the record his imaginations 

and move it be stricken.

Mr. Tate:
He is looking at the picture.

The Court:
Imagination is not what we want. If he knows, he can 

say so.

Q. And along the walls do you see shelves there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are there books on the shelves?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go through the rest of the school, the negro 

high school?
A. Yes, sir.



86

Q. Did you see any other room in which there were 
library books and shelves and tables?

A. No, sir.
Q. What room is that in the negro high school?
A. It is the library.
Q. I thank you.

Mr. Tate:
We present Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 15, Your Honor, as 

described by the witness.

( “Plaintiff’s Exhibit 15” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 16. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 1949? 

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you take that picture? On the grounds 

of the white school or the colored school?
A. I don’t remember which school that was, to tell 

you the truth.
Q. All right. I will show you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 

17. Did you take that picture on the occasion of Novem­
ber 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. Is Exhibit No. 17 on the grounds of the 

white school or the colored school?
A. It is the colored school.
Q. Now, does that help you to identify Exhibit No. 

16?
A. That is right. It is the white school.
Q. And what do you see in that picture?
A. I see exhibits on the wall. I see loving cups and 

big racks and magazines and all types of pictures.
Q. On the wall do you see pictures of some pigs?
A. Pigs and—



87

Mr. McGregor:
I think the picture speaks for itself. That is the pur­

pose of introducing it. Therefore, I object to any fur­
ther description of it.

The Court:
I think he may question the witness about it, but the 

question, I think, was leading.

Does he identify this as in the white or in the col­
ored school?

Mr. Tate:
Answer the Court.

A. This is the white school here. 16.

The Court:
What number is that?

A. P-16.

The Court:
And what is 17?

A. 17 is the colored school.

The Court:
All right.

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 17. Do you notice 
certain pictures on the wall?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What pictures do you see?
A. I see a picture of a pig and a horse.



88

Q. Do you know whether or not while you were tak­
ing pictures in LaGrange you took pictures of the voca­
tional agriculture room in those schools?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Then in that picture, Plaintiff’s Exhibit 16, is 

that a picture of the vocational agriculture room in the 
white school?
Mr. McGregor:

That is obviously leading. It is an indirect way of 
getting in the evidence by building up a series of ques­
tions.
The Court:

I think that particular question is leading and it is 
overruled.
Mr. Tate:

If the Court please, we present this as Plaintiff’s 
Exhibit No. 16.

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 16”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I again call your attention to Plaintiff’s Exhibit 
No. 17. Will you tell the Court what that represents?

A. That is the colored school.
Q. What?
A. The agriculture department.
Q. The agriculture department. That is the voca­

tional agriculture department in the colored school, 
is that correct, sir?

A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tate:

If the Court please, we present item No. 17. 

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 17”  was received in evidence.)



89

Q. I present you with the Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 18. 
Did you take that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. The science department.
Q. Was that in the white or the colored school?
A. That is the white school.
Q. Did you have occasion to take a picture of the 

science department in the colored school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any similar laboratory for the teach­

ing of science in the colored school such as that?
A. No, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
Just a minute. The witness has not been qualified to 

answer that question. I object to it, and no predicate 
has been laid for it.

Mr. Tate:
All right, sir.

Q. Will you tell the Court what you see in that pic­
ture?

Mr. McGregor:
Are you withdrawing the question then, Counsel?

Mr. Tate:
Yes, sir, I am.

A. I see water connections here. I see drainage. I 
see all types of chemical jars that you store chemicals 
in, glass cases, you know, to store them in. I see



90

scales to weigh chemicals. I see tubing of all sorts and 
drawers.

Q. And I call your attention to an open door there 
and the area beyond that. What is that?

A. I will call it a storeroom for chemicals.
Q. Will you identify that picture to the Court now?
A. This is the science department for the white high 

school.
Q. And when you visited the science department 

for the negro school did you see any similar facilities 
for teaching science?

A. No, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
Same objection, no predicate being laid for it.

The Court:
I think that question is proper. Objection overruled. 

Mr. Tate:
We present Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 18 as identified by 

the witness.

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 18”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 19. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what is that picture?
A. It is a schoolroom.
Q. And is that a picture of a schoolroom in the 

negro school or the white school at LaGrange, Texas?
A. It is the negro school.
Q. All right. What do you see in that picture?



91

A. Well, I see here that they have some kind of 
chemicals—I mean, not chemicals but some scales 
here and another device that I don’t know what it is. 
It is used in chemicals, I am sure.

Q. You see a chart there?
A. I see a chart saying “ Zoological chart,”  and 

another chart saying “ Physiology chart, health, hy­
giene, safety and first-aid charts.”

Q. Then is that a picture, to your knowledge, of the 
room for teaching science in the negro school?

A. Well, this picture—no, sir. You mean teach­
ing science in the—
Mr. McGregor:

Well, just a minute. I would like to take the witness 
on voir dire for a moment.
The Court:

All right.
(By Mr. McGregor):

Q. Had you ever been to LaGrange School before? 
A. Not before I took the pictures.
Q. Had you ever been to that room before?
A. No, I had not.
Q. Was the room identified to you before you took 

the pictures?
A. No. We went in there and we—
Q. Who is “ w e?”
A. Sir?
Q. Who is “ w e?”
A. The Principal of the school.

Mr. Tate:
Point to the gentleman you want to identify.
A. It is the gentleman over there.



92

(By Mr. M cGregor):
Q. Is that where you got your information?
A. No. I am looking at the picture and giving you 

the information.
Q. How did you know what room that was?
A. We were told.
Q. Who told you?
A. That man over there.
Q. Mr. Lemmons?
A. Is that his name?
Q. The last gentleman there?
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
No objection.

Mr. Tate:
We present the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 19 as identified 

by the witness.

(Plaintiff’s Exhibit 19”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 20. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether that is on the grounds of 

the negro or the white high school?
A. It is the negro school.
Q. I present you the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 21. Did 

you take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what do you see in the Plaintiff’s Exhibit 

No. 21?



93

A. I see a few tools for teaching manual training, 
shop work.
Mr. McGregor:

Just a minute. I move to strike out the answer as 
not being responsive to the question. I also move to 
strike it on the ground that no predicate has been laid 
to show any experience, qualification and education.
Mr. Tate:

I withdraw all 'the questions and will re-ask them, 
Mr. McGregor.

Q. You have in your hand Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 
20. Did you take that picture on the occasion of No­
vember 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you tell the Court what you see in that pic­

ture?
A. I see devices for holding wood, I see chairs and 

a lot of tools, saws—
Q. Do you see any power driven machinery?
A. Yes, sir, in the back.
Q. Now, did you take that picture on the grounds of 

the negro or white high school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. That is the white high school.
Q. And what does that picture represent, Mr. Hick­

man?
A. The shop.
Q. On the grounds of the white high school in La- 

Grange, Texas, is that correct?
A. That is correct.

Mr. Tate:
Thank you. Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 20, if the Court 

please.

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 20”  was received in evidence.)



94

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 21. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And tell the Court what you see in that picture? 
A. I see two vices, a saw, a hammer, and a hat­

chet and plane.
Q. Was that on the grounds of the negro or white 

high school at LaGrange, Texas?
A. This is the colored school.
Q. And what does that picture represent?
A. A shop.

Mr. Tate:
All right, sir. We present the Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 

21.

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 21”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 22. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what do you see in that picture?
A. It is a gymnasium.
Q. And is that the gymnasium on the grounds of the 

white or the colored school in LaGrange?
A. It is the white school.
Q. All right. What does that picture represent now? 
A. Well, it shows the basket ball goal and some 

steps made there for seats.
Q. And what do you think that building is used for?

Mr. McGregor:
Well—



95

Mr. Tate:
I am sorry. Strike that, please.

Q. What, to your knowledge, is that building used 
for?

A. Playing basket ball. A gymnasium is what it is 
used for.

Q. And that is on the grounds of the colored or 
white school?

A. White school.

Mr. Tate:
All right. I offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 22.

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 22”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 23, Mr. Hick­
man. Did you take that picture on the occasion of 
November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And tell the Court what you see in that pic­

ture?
A. This is a portion of the gym.
Q. At the colored or white school?
A. Colored school.

Mr. Tate:
All right. Thank you. We present Plaintiff’s Exhibit 

No. 23.

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 23”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 24. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?



96

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that picture represent?
A. It is the other end of the gym.
Q. For the colored or the white school?
A. Colored school.

Mr. Tate:
Thank you. We offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 24.

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 24”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 25. Did you 
take that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you see in that picture?
A. It is a kitchen or cook stove and sink.
Q. And is that on the grounds of the negro or the 

white school in LaGrange, Texas? What school is it? 
A. It is the white school.

Mr. Tate:
All right. I present Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 25 as 

identified by the witness.

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 25”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 26. Did you take 
that picture on the occasion of November 26, 1949? 

A. I did.
Q. And what do you see in that picture?
A. I see steam tables. I see a ramp for passing— 

getting your food.
Q. And was that picture taken on the grounds of 

the negro or the white school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. It is the white school.



97

Mr. Tate:
All right. I offer Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 26.

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 26”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 27. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you see in that picture?
A. It is a lunchroom.
Q. And is that on the grounds of the negro or 

white school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. It is the white school.

Mr. Tate:
Thank you. Plaintiff’s Exhibit 27.

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 27”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 28. Did you 
take that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what do you see in that picture?
A. I see a stove and a sink and an ice box.
Q. And is that on the grounds of the negro or the 

white school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. It is in the negro school.

Mr. Tate:
All right. We offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 28. 

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 28”  was received in evidence.)



98

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 29. Did you 
take that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what is that? Tell the Court.
A. It is a classroom at the white school.
Q. In LaGrange, Texas?
A. In LaGrange, Texas.
Q. All right. To the right there in the wall there are 

three types of substances in that wall. Will you tell the 
Court what those three types of substances are?

Mr. McGregor:
I object to the testimony by counsel and move it be 

stricken.

Mr. Tate:
What is the basis of that?

Mr. McGregor:
You just testified there are three types of substances 

in the wall. I don’t know whether they are there or 
not. I don’t know that they are there.

A. I am fixing to tell you.

Mr. McGregor:
I renew the objection.

The Court:
I suppose he means it is a leading question. I think it 

is leading.

Mr. Tate:
All right. I will withdraw the question, if the Court 

please.



99

Q. On the right hand of that picture there is a wall. 
Will you identify as many substances in that wall as 
you can from your own knowledge?

A. The lower wall is a brick wall. In the center will 
be glass windows and at the top of the glass windows 
are glass blocks where light can come in, an even 
flow of light can come through that glass.

Q. Is that what is known as glass brick?
A. That is right.
Q. And that is a classroom on the ground of the 

negro or white school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. White school.

Mr. Tate:
All right. We offer Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 29.

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 29”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 30. Did you 
take that picture on November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that picture represent?
A. This is a classroom at the white high school. 

You have the same type of room that I just mentioned 
in the other picture, with glass brick at the top of the 
windows and the windows in the middle and the brick 
on the bottom. And you have another classroom 
going through a door where—that was a bathroom 
where either room could use it, and it shows, the pic­
ture shows, you can see the teacher’s desk through 
the doorway and that doorway led to a bathroom.

Mr. McGregor:
I am going to move this all be stricken out as being, 

first, not responsive to the question. Secondly, there



100

has been no predicate laid to qualify this witness as 
an expert on anything except photography. Thirdly, 
he has not been qualified on his ability to compare 
rooms in a school or any other type of educational in­
stitution, nor has he been qualified on materials or 
structures of any kind or character. I move it all be 
stricken.

The Court:
Read the question and answer.

(Question and answer read.)

The Court:
Objection overruled.

Mr. Tate:
Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 30, if the Court please.

( “ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 30”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 31. Did you 
take that picture on the occasion of November 26, 
1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. This is the colored school.
Q. Answer my question directly, sir. Is that a class­

room or what does it represent?
A. A classroom.
Q. And is that classroom on the grounds of the 

negro or white school in LaGrange, Texas?
A. Oh, this is the white school. No, wait a minute. 

I am getting mixed up.



101

Q. Now take your time and look at the picture and 
see if you can identify it as being on the grounds of the 
colored or white school in LaGrange, Texas.

Mr. McGregor:
I think the question has been answered by the wit­

ness saying he did not know which it is.

The Court:
Well, he is still looking.

A. This is the colored school.
Q. Colored school. Now, Mr. Hickman, tell the 

Court what you see in that picture?
A. I see desks, chairs.
Q. And that is for children or grown ups?
A. Children.

Mr. McGregor:
Objection to that. He has not been qualified as to 

furniture for educational institutions.

The Court:
Well, maybe he knows.

Mr. MeGregor:
Note our exception.

Q. But that is a classroom on the grounds of the 
colored school, is that correct? Mr. Hickman, I hand 
you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 32. Did you take that pic­
ture on the occasion of November 26, 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that picture represent?
A. A classroom.



102

Q. Is that a classroom on the grounds of the negro 
or the white school in LaGrange, Texas?

A. This is the white school. No, I have it wrong.
Q. Now will you answer the question again, please?

Mr. Tate:
Strike that question, please, m a’am.

The Court:
No don’t strike it.

A. After photographing so many pictures you can’t 
remember exactly until you look at them all at the 
same time.

The Court:
All right. Take your time.

Q. All right. Is that in the negro school or the white 
school?

A. It is the white school.
Q. All right. Will you look at the wall in that pic­

ture?
A. This one here?
Q. Yes, sir. Will you tell the Court what substances 

are in that wall?
A. It is just plain. Looks like it is wood.
Q. Just look at it and tell the Court.
A. You have windows going all the way to the top 

on this side.
Q. All right. You will see those chairs and on the 

left hand corner of the picture those chairs appear 
dull. On the right hand corner they appear light. What 
is the cause of the difference in the color of those 
chairs?



103

A. Oh, it is—you have the reflection of light com ­
ing through the windows which automatically adds 
to the amount of light I used in making these pictures 
and, consequently, it meant that more light was com ­
ing in nearer to the windows than from the other part 
of the room.

Q. Does that mean that sunlight was shining 
through the window?

A. That is what it is. That is what I refer to when 
I say light.

Q. Now, Mr. Hickman, I ask you whether or not 
that classroom is on the grounds of the colored or 
white school?

A. Colored.

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that as a repetition, obviously leading. 

He has asked him two times before and he has an­
swered two times.

The Court:
Objection overruled. I would like to have the pic­

ture identified. I don’t know which one he is talking 
about. He has two there.

Mr. Tate:
This is Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 32 and he identifies 

it as a classroom in the negro school in LaGrange, 
Texas.

Mr. McGregor:
On the third time.

Mr. Tate:
I offer Plaintiff’ s Exhibit Nos. 31 and 32.



104

( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibits 31 and 32”  were received in 
evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 33—

The Court:
Just a minute. The Court will adjourn until 9:30 in 

the morning.

(Adjourned at 4:30 p. m.)

December 6, 1949. 9:30 a. m.

The Court:
Be seated, gentlemen.

Are you ready to proceed in the case on trial? All 
right.

Mr. Tate:
Call Mr. Hickman.

The Bailiff:
He does not answer. He is not here yet.

Mr. Tate:
If the Court please, if he is not here could we come 

to another witness and put him on again later?

The Court:
Yes. Why isn’t he here?

Mr. Tate:
I don’t know, Your Honor. He was advised to be 

here.



105

The Court:
All right. Call another witness.

Mr. Durham:
Call J. C. Jackson.

JAMES C. JACKSON, was called as a witness on 
behalf of the plaintiff and, having been first duly- 
sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. State your name, please.
A. James C. Jackson.
Q. Where do you live?
A. Bay City, Texas. That is my home. I live in La- 

Grange now.
Q. Are you now employed?
A. That is right.
Q. Where are you employed?
A. LaGrange Independent School District, La- 

Grange.
Q. In what capacity?
A. Vocational agriculture instructor.
Q. How long have you been employed in the La- 

Grange Independent School District?
A. Going on two and a half years.
Q. And what subject or subjects do you teach and 

have you taught since you have been employed in this 
school?

A. Vocational agriculture, 1, 2, 3 and 4.
Q. Now, will you tell the Court what facilities, aside 

from the text books, you have for teaching vocation­



106

al agriculture in the LaGrange Independent School 
District?

A. We had the usual set-up on the classroom.
Q. Is that all?
A. We had some vices.

The Court:
Some what?

A. Vices.
Q. Will you describe the vices you say you have.
A. What I mean by a vice, it is something to hold 

metal or wood while we are working on it, and we 
have the clamps, the steel clamps to clamp wood­
work together or anything which you might want to 
hold as you work.

Q. Anything else?
A. I believe that is about all.
Q. Now, do you have any practice teaching, any 

lands or grounds for practice teaching in agriculture?
A. Practice teaching in agriculture?
Q. Yes.
A. Any lands or grounds?
Q. Yes, for the negro school?
A. I don’t know anything about it.
Q. Well, are you using any lands in connection with 

your teaching of the negro children?
A. Well, with the boy’s project, his parent’s land, 

we use that.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. That is, a boy might use a project in growing 

corn and his parents will agree with me to let this 
boy—that is, an agreement between the three, to let 
this boy use this land and that is practice as far as I
can see.



107

Q. Now I come back to my question. Does the 
school, as far as you know, furnish you any land or 
ground for the purpose of teaching practical agricul­
ture?

A. It has not been as far as I am concerned.
Q. Now are you familiar with the building used for 

the negro high school down in LaGrange Independent 
School District?

A. I am familiar, more or less, with the shop. I am 
more or less out there all the time.

Q. All right. What type of building is the shop 
housed in?

A. It is a frame structure.
Q. Is it a frame building?
A. Frame building.
Q. What kind of heat do you have in that? What is 

the heating system?
A. We have wood heaters now.

Mr. McGregor:
What was that last word, Mr. Jackson?
A. Wood heaters.
Q. I will show you here what has been introduced 

as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 16. I will ask you to examine 
that Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 16. I will ask you if that 
picture represents the physical objects and reflects the 
equipment that you have got in the agricultural room 
in the negro high school in LaGrange, Texas?

A. Well, may I get that question again, please?
Q. I will ask you—I will change it.

Mr. McGregor:
No, I object to his changing it and taking the ex­

hibit away from the witness when he has been ques­
tioned about it.



108

The Court:
He can withdraw his question if he wants to.

Mr. Durham:
I will withdraw the question, Your Honor.

The Court:
The record will reflect what happened.

Q. I will ask you to examine what has been intro­
duced as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 17. I will ask you now 
have you had occasion to examine it?

A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you if that is a picture of the room and 

if it reflects the equipment that is in the agriculture 
room in the negro high school at LaGrange, Texas?

A. Well, it is a portion. That is, you have two tables 
here—

The Court:
Speak out louder.

A. He has some tables here and a portion of our 
book rack and this reflects a portion of it. That is, the 
picture that he has here reflects that portion which he 
took.

Q. All right, thank you. Now, what is left out of the 
niture in the work shop of the negro high school in 
the exhibits?

A. Well, my desk, the bulletin board and, I think, 
some more of the lights, to be technical.

Q. All right. Now, with the exception of your desk 
and the bulletin board which is not shown in that pic­
ture, that is all of the equipment and furniture that is 
in the agriculture room which you use for teaching 
purposes?



109

A. That is right.
Q. Thank you. I ask you to examine what has been 

introduced as Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 21. I will ask you 
whether or not that represents the equipment and fur­
niture in the work shop of the negro high school in 
the City of LaGrange?

A. Well, I can’t answer that because you don’t have 
all of the equipment there.

The Court:
I can’t hear you.

A. I say you don’t have all the equipment appar­
ent here in this picture.

Q. All right. Now what other furniture or fixtures 
do you have in that room other than and except that 
as shown in that picture?

A. Well, we have quite a bit of woodwork tools in­
side of this place here that is not on here.

Q. All right. Now what are those tools?
A. Well, I don’t know just now.
Q. Do you handle the shop?
A. That is right.
Q. Well, are you familiar with the tools that you 

have there, Jackson?

Mr. McGregor:
I believe I will object to that as leading I believe 

he has answered that question.

The Court:
Overruled.

Q. I will ask the question again, Mr. Jackson. Do 
you know and are you familiar with the tools that 
you have to work with and teach with?



110

A. That is right.
Q. Now what tools, if any, do you have in that room 

that are not shown in that picture?
A. Well, we have end nipples, we have a lot of 

braces, end nipples, steel bits, spraying apparatus for 
spraying trees. We have—I will have to think now. 
We have several different types of saws. He has only 
the 8 point crosscut on here seemingly. We have some 
saws for pruning. We have pruning shears, four pair 
of those. We have a broad bit hatchet and any number 
of small 'things that are not indicated on the picture.

Q. As a teacher in the Randolph Colored High 
School in LaGrange, Texas, do you have occasion to 
use the library in that school?

A. I have occasion to send the students into the 
library.

Q. Don’t you go into the library?
A. That is right.
Q. And do you visit the library often?
A. Inasmuch as it is a part of the school I visit the 

whole place.
Q. Will you tell the Court approximately how many 

volumes are in that library?
A. I would not be able to.
Q. Now, I will point to what has been introduced as 

Defendant’s Exhibit No. 1, which purports to be a 
drawing of the school building at LaGrange? Does that 
appear to be a drawing of the school building there for 
negroes?

A. Well, it is. It appears to be to me from the—
Q. Now, can you identify from Defendant’s Exhibit 

No. 1 what is this portion, that is, the portion to which 
I am pointing, is used for?

A. Well, that is the face of the gymnasium, the 
brick structure of the gymnasium.



Ill

Q. What is in the gymnasium?
A. What do you mean, what is in the gymnasium?
Q. What do you find in the gymnasium?
A. We have a usual gymnasium, the stage, the hot 

lunch department there, the cafeteria we call it, and 
chairs, tables, lavatory facilities and so forth, and 
that is about all, I believe.

Q. You say you have a laboratory?
A. Lavatory.
Q. Lavatory, all right. Now what is the gymnasium 

used for?
A. The gymnasium is used for Physical Ed pur­

poses. I am not to familiar with what the principal’s 
program is on that.

Q. Well, you are familiar as a teacher with the 
facilities used in the gymnasium, aren’t you, Mr. 
Jackson?

A. Well, not necessarily.
Q. You have never used the gym in your school 

life?
A. I have used the gym for a program.
Q. All right. I will ask you whether there are any 

goals for basket ball in there?
A. I don’t know. I don’t believe there is.
Q. Is there anything else in that gym except the 

stage and a few chairs and the kitchen located in that 
gymnasium?

A. Well, you have asked me that question. I mean, 
you asked me to tell you what was in the gym and I 
told you there were tables and chairs and so forth.

Q. I thank you for that. I will ask you whether there 
is anything else in this gym except the kitchen, a 
few chairs and the stage?

A. The kitchen, a few chairs and the stage.
Q. And lavatory?



112

A. And tables. I believe that is all.
Q. That is all it is. Now, is the food prepared in 

this kitchen here or is the food brought for the negro 
children from  somewhere else?

A. The food is brought over.
Q. From where?
A. From the white school to the cafeteria.
Q. How is it brought over?
A. I haven’t noticed that too closely. All I know, it 

is brought over. I haven’t noticed, really, the facilities.
Q. Do you know how many times a day it is brought 

over?
A. I think they bring it around once a day.
Q. Do you remember what time of day?
A. I am teaching at that time. I hardly noticed.
Q. But no food is prepared in that kitchen, is that 

right?
A. That is right.
Q. Now, are you familiar with the laboratory in the 

negro school?
A. The laboratory?
Q. The laboratory?
A. I am not familiar with it.
Q. Is there a laboratory there?
A. Well, I don’t know. The science teacher told me 

he had one.
Q. You are teaching there in the school.
A. That is right.
Q. You have been teaching there about two years?
A. About two and a half years.
Q. And you are teaching agriculture?
A. That is right.
Q. The agricultural subjects, and you told the 

Court you don’t know whether there is a laboratory in 
the school where you are teaching?



113

A. Well now, the science teacher says there is a 
laboratory.

Q. I don’t mean to argue with you, but—
A. I understand.
Q. I am asking you, of your own knowledge, do you 

know whether or not there is a laboratory in the 
school in which you are teaching?

A. Well, I guess I don’t know.
Q. Well, how many rooms are there in the school?
A. I don’t know that.
Q. How many teachers are there?
A. I believe it is 18 teachers.
Q. Are you familiar with any portion of this build­

ing, the picture of which has been introduced as De­
fendant’s Exhibit 1? Are you familiar with the interior 
of this building?

A. Now which is Exhibit No. 1?
Q. This is Exhibit No. 1.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Have you ever been on the inside of 

that building?
A. Of course.
Q. All right. Now I will ask you if this portion here 

on the front of what has been introduced as Defend­
ant’s Exhibit No. 1, leading from the entrance here 
over to the extreme left, if that is not an open corri­
dor?

A. It is an open corridor.
Q. Now I will ask you if every classroom in this 

new portion does not open out into that open corri­
dor. Every classroom opens out into the open corri­
dor, doesn’t it?

A. I believe they do. I believe they do.
Q. And I will ask you to state whether or not it is 

a fact that students leaving the classroom, going from



114

one classroom to the other, must go out of the class­
room into this open corridor before they get into an­
other classroom?

A. That is right.
Q. That is true, isn’t it?
A. That is right. That is true.

The Court:
I cannot get the nod of your head. Speak up so coun­

sel and I can hear you.

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now with the exception of the restrooms for 

girls and boys in the gymnasium, you have two other 
restrooms in this school. That is correct, isn’t it?

A. That is right.
Q. One is for the boys on the extreme left here. 

That is at the back of the building?
A. It is at the back of the building, that is right.
Q. Now in leaving the classrooms here in front, in 

order to reach the restroom for boys, they must pro­
ceed through this open corridor and down back of the 
building?

A. That is right.
Q. And they are exposed to the elements and the 

weather in all weathers. That is true, isn’t it?
A. They must go into this corridor or go out to 

reach the—
Q. Which is open at both ends, and that restroom 

is on the back and they must go through an open 
space to get to the restroom?

A. That is right.
Q. And that is true for girls?
A. That is right.
Q. It is on the next end, is that right?



115

A. That is right.
Q. Now I will show you what has been introduced 

as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 23, and I will ask you whe­
ther that represents substantially the equipment that 
is in the gymnasium at the negro school?

A. It does represent the equipment in the gym.
Q. Thank you. Now, I hand you what has been in­

troduced as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 19, and I will ask you 
if that does not represent and reflect the equipment 
and furniture in the science room or laboratory in the 
negro school in LaGrange, Texas?

A. Let’s see. I don’t know whether this-—I really 
don’t know. We have one or two other rooms resembles 
this. Let’s see. This is the science room.

Q. All right. Now you say you have—
A. Supposed to be the science room, I believe.
Q. Thank you. Now you say you have one or two 

other rooms that resemble this room. Then you tell 
the Court that the laboratory in the negro school re­
sembles the ordinary classroom?

A. Well—

Mr. McGregor:
What was that answer?

A. I didn’t get his question.
Q. Then you tell the Court that the laboratory, the 

room used for the laboratory in the negro school re­
sembles the other classrooms?

A. I said we had some other classrooms—
Q. That resemble this one?
A. That resemble that.
Q. And this is the laboratory?
A. That is the laboratory. I see this back here and 

that is right.



116

Q. Then the laboratory in the negro school in La- 
Grange resembles some of the ordinary classrooms?

A. Some of our ordinary classrooms.
Q. Now what classroom does it resemble?
A. Well, it has indications of our shelves where we 

put our books and the framing in there. That is what 
I had reference to, the general building interior. That 
is what I had reference to.

Q. Now I present you here with what has been in­
troduced as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 24. I will ask you 
if in that picture the kitchen in the gymnasium, if it 
is not reflected in that picture?

A. The kitchen is reflected out of proportion.
Q. I present you what has been introduced as 

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 28 and ask you if that does not 
reflect correctly the interior of the kitchen?

A. It does.
Q. Now I will ask you if that is all of the furniture, 

fixtures and equipment that is in the kitchen at the 
negro school and reflected by Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 
28?

A. That is right.
Q. I will ask you to hold Exhibit No. 24. I will ask 

you if the fixtures, furniture and equipment, includ­
ing the exterior of the kitchen, is not correctly re­
flected as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 24?

A. I have answered that. It is plainly—-
Q. Well, do you mind answering it again?
A. It is plainly reflected here, the true structure of 

the kitchen.
Q. Including the fixtures in the gymnasium?
A. That is right.
Q. And that is all that is there?
A. That is right.



117

Q. Now I hand you here what has been introduced 
in evidence and identified as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 
23. I will ask you to notice in such exhibit the tables 
across there. I will ask you if those tables are all of 
the tables used in connection with the cafeteria in the 
gymnasium in the negro school?

A. You say these are all of the tables that are 
used?

Q. Yes.
A. I don’t think so.
Q. Where are the other tables? Do you know?
A. I think they are on the other side.
Q. You think they are on the other side?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, all right. Now what type of heating sys­

tem is there in the negro school in LaGrange?
A. The type of heating system?
Q. Heating system?
A. Well, it is gas blowers. It is gas blowing stoves 

that have the fans in them and they blow the heat out. 
It is gas heating, you might say.

Q. Now, the high school and the elementary school 
is combined for negroes in the LaGrange Independent 
School?

A. It is one building.
Q. Now how many schools, do you know, do they 

have for white students, pupils in the LaGrange In­
dependent School? That is, how many plants, different 
plants?

A. I don’t know.
Q. You don’t know whether they have one or two?
A. I don’t know because I don’t know anything 

about these Christian schools and so forth.
Q. I am talking about the public school?
A. Public school?



118

Q. Yes.
A. Two.
Q. Do you know whether or not the high school and 

elementary school are housed together or are they 
separate?

A. They are separate.
Q. Now, is the negro school, elementary school, 

separate from the high school or is it a combination 
of elementary and high school?

A. It is a combination building.
Q. Now you teach in what school, the elementary or 

high school?
A. High school.
Q. How many rooms are used and occupied for 

work in the high school in the negro building?
A. I don’t know.
Q. You are housed off from the main building?
A. Yes, I am housed off from the main building.
Q. Were you in the school system when the repair 

work was started on the negro school?
A. I was.
Q. When was that work started?
A. I don’t know definitely.
Q. Well, what year?
A. I believe, I believe some part of 1948. I am not 

definite on that.
Q. I don’t mean the month and the day.
A. I say I don’t know definitely on that. I believe 

it was some time in 1948. I don’t know.
Q. Well, all right. Now, when were you first em­

ployed?
A. It was the second semester of 1948, I believe.
Q. Had the construction and the repair on that 

building started when you were first employed?
A. I don’t believe it was.



119

Q. And then you started on what date?
A. It was the second semester of 1948.
Q. And that was what month?
A. I believe February.
Q. February, 1948. All right. Now, what portion of 

this structure which appears, is shown in Exhibit No, 
1, Defendant’s Exhibit No. 1, was in existence at the 
time you started to work there in February, 1948?

A. It was the main building, that there, yes, the 
main building and the shop.

Q. The main building and the shop?
A. And the shop.
Q. Now, has anything been done to the shop, that 

is, where you worked, since the date you started there?
A. There have been improvements on the inside as 

to facilities, but the main building, no.
Q. All right. Now, what facilities did you have 

when you started there in February, 1948?
A. We had just the common desks and some few 

tools. From the pictures drawn on the walls it is indi­
cative that there were a lot of tools there, but when 
I came there were not many.

Q. Now, the equipment that you have testified to 
previously this morning was put there since you 
started teaching?

A. That is right.
Q. All right. Now what has been done, if anything, 

to the exterior of the building that was standing there 
when you first went there and before the construction 
started? That being, back of this building?

A. I don’t know. Let’s see. The exterior, the back 
of the main building you spoke of?

Q. That is right.
A. I believe it was something done on top of it 

once. They were painting or doing something and they



120

did some renovating or changing around the parti­
tions or something like that.

Q. Thank you. Now all of the structure that is 
shown and represented by Defendant’s Exhibit 1 is 
the same old building that was there except this por­
tion across the front and the gymnasium. That is true, 
isn’t it?

A. That is right.
Q. How many rooms are in this front, newly con­

structed portion?
A. There are four new classrooms in that newly 

constructed portion on the front.
Q. And in each of those classrooms the students 

must come out into an open corridor in order to get 
to the next classroom?

A. That is right.
Q. There is no heat in that open corridor out there?
A. There is not any heat out there.
Q. Now, you say you have been in the library once 

or twice since you have been there. Do you keep any 
books in the library, any reference books with refer­
ence to agricultural subjects?

A. There are some reference books.
Q. You never go in there to get any of them?
A. Of course, my boys do.
Q. You do frequent there, Mr. Jackson?
A. Sometimes.
Q. I show you what has been introduced and identi­

fied as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 15. I will ask you if that 
does not represent the physical facts, the equipment 
and furniture in the negro library in the Randolph In­
dependent School in LaGrange, Texas.

A. This just reflects a portion of the library.
Q. What portion is it that it does not reflect?



121

A. There are some more shelves housing more 
books, some more books and the teacher’s desk and I 
believe that is about all.

Q. Now you do remember the books now, don’t 
you. You remember there are some missing on that 
exhibit?

A. There are some missing. There are some shelves 
with books on them.

Q. All right. Now, tell the Court, please, approxi­
mately how many volumes are there now, the last time 
you were in there, in the negro library in the negro 
school in LaGrange, Texas?

A. How many volumes?
Q. Approximately. I know you just can’t count 

them.
A. What do you consider exclusive—inclusive as a 

volume?
Q. Strike that question. Do you know what a book 

is?
A. Of course.
Q. You know what a volume is? You know what a 

book is?
A. Yes.
Q. How many books in the—
A. Well—

The Court:
Well, is the book bound or unbound?

Q. Are those books bound in there?
A. They are.
Q. Now, how many bound books would you say?
A. I would say approximately about, better than 

200 .



122

Mr. Durham:
That is all.

Mr. McGregor:
Just a moment. I would like to ask you a few ques­

tions, please.

Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. How many students do you have in your agricul­

ture class?
A. I have about 38 students.

The Court:
Keep your voice up.

A. About 38 students.
Q. Do you have more than one period at which 

you teach them?
A. I have more than one period that I teach. Agri­

culture 1, two hours.
Q. In other words, you have two separate classes 

in that one subject?
A. Two separate classes in that one subject.
Q. Is that all that you teach, two classes, or do you 

teach other classes?
A. I teach other classes, Agriculture 3 and 4.
Q. In other words, the 38 students that you teach 

are divided between the four classes in agriculture?
A. That is correct.
Q. Now that course or those courses, rather, are 

given in a building which is in the back part of the 
campus of the negro school in LaGrange, I believe you 
stated. Is that correct?



123

A. That is correct.
Q. And you have been there some two years. I 

hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 17, which was exhibited 
to you a while ago, and I believe you testified that 
presently there is a wood stove there or wood heat 
which is supplied for the pupils. Is it a fact that there 
is a mechanical heater there on the premises ready 
for installation?

A. That is correct.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we object to any declaration of any 

facilities or equipment as being of no probative force 
on the issues in this case. The declaration as to what 
is there ready for installation is of no probative force 
as declaration of facilities and does not satisfy the 
mandates of the Constitution.

The Court:
Objection overruled. I am not passing on your legal 

question. I am simply overruling your objection to the 
testimony.

Q. Now, the building program that has been—

The Court:
I didn’t get his answer to that.

Mr. McGregor:
He said, yes, sir.

The Court:
There is other apparatus that has not been installed?

A. Yes, sir.



124

Mr. McGregor:
The answer was that there was a mechanical heater 

ready to be installed in the room but it had not been 
installed.

Mr. Durham:
I want to ask a question for the purpose of making 

an objection.

The Court:
All right.

(By Mr. Durham):
Q. You say there is another apparatus to install 

for heating.
A. To be installed.
Q. Now, do you have charge of installing?
A. I don’t have charge of installing.
Q. Do you know of your own knowledge that it is 

to be installed. Not what somebody told you, but your 
own knowledge?

A. Of my own knowledge that it will be installed?
Q. That is right.
A. It is in there purposely to be installed.
Q. Do you know of your own knowledge, indepen­

dent of what anybody told you that it is there to be in­
stalled?

A. Well, since I am under authority—
Q. Would you answer?
A. I can’t hardly answer.

The Court:
Let him answer like he wants to.



125

A. Since my superiors are the people in authority 
and say it will be installed, that is as much as I can 
do about that.

Mr. Durham:
We object to that as hearsay.

The Court:
How big an apparatus is it?

A. It is a large—oh, I guess about a four by six 
size mechanical heater, gas, to be installed.

The Court:
Is it new?

A. It is new. It is cased.

The Court:
About how big and heavy is it?

A. I venture to say maybe 90 or 100 pounds or 
better.

The Court:
I see. Objection overruled. I am ruling on testimony, 

not on any legal question.

(By Mr. McGregor):
Q. Now, in the examinations, Mr. Jackson, by 

Mr. Durham you were shown Plaintiff’s Exhibit 16. 
I will ask you if you have ever been in that room your­
self?

A. I have.



126

The Court:
What is that?

Mr. McGregor:
That is the picture of the room which was identified 

as the agriculture room in the school.

Q. Now, are you familiar with what is in these 
racks here in that room?

A. I am not.
Q. Now are you familiar with what these certifi­

cates or awards may be?
A. I believe I did check that once. It has to do with 

project achievements, I believe.

Mr. Durham:
We did not understand that, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
He said it had to do with project achievements, as 

I understood him.

Q. Do you know by whom those awards were 
given?

A. I do not.
Q. In Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 17, which has been identi­

fied as the agriculture room in the negro school, what 
is represented in the racks to the left?

A. Well, we have typical agriculture bulletins and 
some agriculture text books.

Q. Are those bulletins supplied by various agen­
cies?

A. They are.
Q. By what agencies?



127

A. A & M, and a building here in Houston, I come 
down here and pick them up.

Q. Do you get those bulletins free of charge?
A. Free of charge.
Q. Do you get any number you like for your school?
A. Any number.
Q. Now, by the way, Mr. Jackson, are you a gradu­

ate of some college or university?
A. I am.
Q. What college or university are you a graduate 

of?
A. Prairie View, A & M, Texas.
Q. What degree do you hold?
A. B. S. in agriculture.
Q. Do you hold any other degrees?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you hold a teacher’s certificate or certificate 

in the State of Texas?
A. I do.
Q. What certificate or certificates do you hold?
A. I have four years certificate now.
Q. What was the first certificate you ever received?
A. That was the same certificate.
Q. And what does that entitle you to do in the 

schools of Texas?
A. It entitles me to teach in the schools of Texas, 

school systems of Texas.
Q. What do you mean when you say you now have 

a four year certificate?
A. I have a four year—-the original certificate that 

I received was for four years and it is not expired yet.
Q- In other words, might I interpret that to mean 

that you now have to get it renewed?
A. It will have to be renewed for a permanent 

teaching certificate.



128

Q. For a permanent teaching certificate. Now, in 
the Plaintiff’s Exhibit 21, which I believe you identified 
as a portion of the shop, where is that room in rela­
tion to the room which is identified on Exhibit 17, 
Plaintiff’ s?

A. Where is that room?
Q. Yes.
A. It is an adjoining room to this classroom.
Q. I see. Now, in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 21 the south 

side of that room is not shown, is it?
A. South side?
Q. Well, let’s say the side next to the main school 

building is not shown?
A. It is not shown.
Q. Now this open door, what does that lead into?
A. That leads into the tool room, the tool room.
Q. And what did you keep in there?
A. General woodwork tools and the tools that I 

made mention to at other times.
Q. I see. In your teaching there in your agriculture 

courses, do you teach woodwork?
A. We teach woodwork.
Q. What else do you teach?
A. General agriculture, such as farm shop, farm 

maintenance, that is, mechanical maintenance.
Q. What does that cover, please?
A. That covers plows, the practical things that the 

average boy would have to work with on the farm.
Q. I see. There is still work under this improve­

ments system going on in this particular room in build­
ing and refurbishing that shop, isn’t there?

A. It is if we have reference to the installation of 
this heating system, as far as I can say.

Q. I see. Is the heating system to be in the room 
reflected in 21 or is it to be in 17?



129

A. I am not certain.
Q. You are not certain about that. You have 38 

students I believe you said. What is the average class? 
You have stated they were divided into four parts.

A. The average class is about 12 or something like 
that.

Q. About 12. Well, does that mean that your first 
year class is larger than your last one?

A. Well, the average, I might say that average is 
a little better than that because I have a second year 
group which comprises most students and the first 
year and third and fourth year combination.

Q. Then you must have more than 38 that you are 
actually teaching?

A. Well, I do have NFA members. It is a national 
organization of New Farmers of America studying 
agriculture. We cannot have an agriculture class com ­
prising 100 students but only, say, teach 50 NFA mem­
bers because of their qualifications to become an NFA 
member.

Q. I don’t understand you. Are you teaching 38 
students?

A. I am actually teaching more than 38 students.
Q. When you stated you were teaching 38 students 

did you mean students that were registered students in 
the school?

A. I had reference to NFA students.
Q. Where do the other students fall; what kind of 

classification?
A. They are in the school. They are being taught 

similarly but maybe I didn’t understand the question.
Q. Well, I am trying to get at how many you are 

actually teaching so far as the negro school is con­
cerned, your regular day-to-day students?



130

A. Regular day-to-day students is about 45, I be­
lieve. Somewhere like that. Day-to-day students about 
45.

Q. And those are the students that are going 
through the school all the time?

A. They are continuously going to school.
Q. And therefore your answer of about 12 to a class 

must have been about right?
A. About right.
Q. A good many questions were asked you about 

these outside corridors or passageways. There is a 
roof over all of these corridors, outside corridors and 
passageways, is there not?

A. There is a roof.
Q. And that roof runs from the extremity on each 

ell down to the portion of the building which crosses 
across here, does it not?

A. That is correct.
Q. So over each corridor there is a shelter?
A. Over each corridor there is a top.
Q. By the way, have you visited any of the new 

schools constructed here in Houston on the outside 
corridor principle?

A. I have not.
Q. Have you been to the new Wheatley High School 

here where all the corridors are outside?
A. Not as yet. I have not visited it as yet.
Q. The classrooms which go across the front of this 

building, I believe you testified, were all in use by 
the lower or what you would call the grammer school 
grades?

A. I did not.
Q. Well, do you know just what—
A. Well, there are.
Q. I see.



131

A. Used by the grammer school grades.
Q. By the grammer school grades. Now you are 

acquainted with the system up there. Actually, those 
grades don’t move from room to room, do they?

A. They remain constant.
Q. They remain constant in their rooms and do not 

go from room to room. Now, I believe you were asked 
as to how many plants the LaGrange Independent 
School District was maintaining and you answered 
two, if I recall your answer correctly. The one where 
the white school was and the one where the negro 
school is. Don’t they operate more plants than that?

A. Well now, the question I answered had reference 
to how many white school plants did they have and 
the negro school plants. I said two white and one 
negro, I believe.

Q. Where are the two white plants located?
A. I believe it is the old original building and then 

this new building.
Q. Well, doesn’t the LaGrange Independent School 

District also have two other plants, one at Ellinger and 
one on the road to Giddings?

A. No. In attempting to answer this question I had 
reference to his thinking of the schools within La­
Grange.

Q. Well that is the reason I am asking you about 
it now. As a matter of fact, they also operate a school 
at Ellinger, don’t they?

A. Operate a school at Ellinger?
Q. And they operate one on the Giddings Road?
A. I don’t know anything about the Giddings Road 

but I know about the one at Ellinger.
Q. Now, when you said they had two plants there 

m the City of LaGrange, as a matter of fact the school 
you call the old plant and the new plant there for the



132

white children, they are right adjacent to one another, 
aren’t they?

A. They are if you count about 50 yards or some­
thing like that as adjacent.

Q. Yes. I don’t mean they are connected. I mean 
they are right adjacent to one another.

A. That is correct.
Q. And this cafeteria and other equipment that was 

exhibited to you, Plaintiff’s Exhibit No.—

Mr. Tate:
25 or 26 or thereabouts.

Mr. McGregor:
I withdraw the question.

Q. Now, this Plaintiff’s Exhibit 15 which I under­
stood you to identify as the library in the negro school, 
the teacher’s desk is at this end of that room, I believe 
you said, and not reflected in the picture. Is that cor­
rect?

A. That is right. I said that. But I see that is ac­
tually reflected in the picture. I did not see the 
teacher’s desk there.

The Court:
Said what?

A. I said that but seemingly the teacher’s desk is 
reflected in this picture. I didn’t notice that.

Q. Well, the teacher’s desk is actually—at least 
one of them is there?

A. That is one of the teacher’s desks.
Q. It is reflected there. Now, there is another desk. 

Weren’t you right about it? Isn’t there another desk 
down at this end, at this end of the picture?



133

A. I can’t recall.
Q. You can’t recall?
A. I can’t recall. I remember this desk.
Q. Now, actually, this is where the teacher sits 

when she is actually librarian and checks out the 
books, isn’t it?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, do you know of your own knowledge how 

this library has been acquired and how come it is 
maintained? That is, where the funds come from ?

A. Well, I have a vague idea. I know—
Q. Well, I don’t want an idea. I don’t mean to stop 

you abruptly. I am trying to ask you if you know how 
the books are acquired and where the funds come 
from?

A. Well, I don’t.
Q. Now, there is, in the top of Plaintiff’s Exhibit 

15, what apparently is a heater hung from the ceiling. 
I will ask you if that is the type heater you were re­
ferring to a while ago that was to be hung in the shop 
where you are teaching?

A. That is the type of heater that I had reference 
to.

Q. I see. This particular room that is reflected in 
Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 15 is what is known, or rather, it is 
the old part of the present combined building, is it not?

A. It is in the old part of the present combined 
building.

Q. Yes. The galleries or corridors are all concrete 
in that building as well as in the new portion of it, are 
they not?

A. They are concrete.
Q. And these walls are all masonry walls in the 

old building as well as in the new part of the building, 
are they not?



134

A. This picture indicates that wooden structure 
there.

Q. Excluding for the moment the wainscoting?
A. The balance, with the exception of this wall in 

here, is masonry construction.
Q. This woodwork that is here, this beaded wall, 

that is a part of the trim and not a part of the main 
wall, is it not?

A. It is a part of the trim.
Q. Now, in this library they are supplied with 

certain daily newspapers, are they not?
A. I believe they do take the daily newspapers. I 

believe they do.
Q. Those are the daily newspapers that are re­

flected in the picture, are they not, in the racks pro­
vided for them in the left side of the picture?

A. It has papers reflected. I don’t know what they 
are.

Q. Now then, on the other end of the room and 
around the walls there are several shelves other than 
those that are reflected there?

A. That is right.
Q. Have you been in the kitchen at the negro gym­

nasium that is reflected by Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 28?
A. I have.
Q. This wall is 1 by 4 V-joint yellow pine paneling, 

is it not?
A. I don’t know now. 1 by 4 what?
Q. V-joined yellow pine paneling?
A. That is correct on that.
Q. And the kitchen is in that type trim all around, 

isn’t it?
A. Yes, all around.
Q. The ceiling is accomplished by this new com­

position sound-proofing material, is it not?



135

A. That is right.
Q. The windows are recessed and set in perpen­

dicularly to supply the largest amount of light, are 
they not?

A. They are set in perpendicularly to supply light. I 
don’t know how much does come in there.

Q. Now this picture does not show the other end of 
this kitchen which has in it a deepfreeze, does it?

A. It does not.
Q. And there is a deepfreeze in that end of the 

kitchen?
A. There is a deepfreeze in there.
Q. Plaintiff’s Exhibits 23 and 24 show from the 

back of the gymnasium first to one side and then the 
other side. That is correct? I mean that is the angle of 
the picture.

A. That is the back of one side and this is the 
back upon another side.

Q. Yes. In other words, 24 shows the method of 
setting in the kitchen on that side of the gymnasium?

A. It does.
Q. And this portion of the gymnasium is where it 

is set up and constructed for the playing of basket 
ball isn’t it?

A. Combination basket ball and auditorium pur­
poses.

Q. Dances and everything else you want to have?
A. That is right.
Q. What kind of floor is that, do you know?
A. It is a hardwood floor. It is a regular basket 

ball or conventional type.
Q. Do you know whether or not it is oak or maple?
A. I think it is oak.
Q. And it is beautifully finished and laid on the 

floor?



136

A. It is finished and laid on the floor.
Q. Now, these heaters that you find hanging here 

and here at the back and in the middle are also found 
on 23 on the opposite side of the room for the purpose 
of heating?

A. That is right, back, middle and front.
Q. And also there is another heater on each side 

at the back which is not reflected in either 23 or 24 
because they were behind the cam era?

A. There are any number of heaters, I mean three 
or four more heaters not reflected in this picture, 
Plaintiff’ s 24. And in this picture, four more heaters 
not reflected in 23.

Q. So between the two pictures there are four 
more of such heaters which are not reflected in either 
23 or 24?

A. That is right.
Q. Now, in the ceiling of this gymnasium there 

are numerous objects that appear to be lights, for the 
purpose of lighting the gymnasium. Is that what those 
objects are for?

A. These are lights and there are reflectors in 
the top. We have reflectors in the top and it cuts the 
sun rays and it helps the light, lighting purposes. But 
these are recent electrical lights put up.

Q. And they are all screened, are they not, so that 
they will not be damaged or broken up?

A. That is right.
Q. In 23 and 24 I see on the respective sides of the 

gymnasium tables which you, I believe, have pointed 
out and I will ask you what those tables are used for, 
if you know?

A. I have seen the tables used for different pur­
poses, eating purposes and classes. I see some teach­
ers—the physical ed teacher might take time out to 
have discussion around the table.



137

Q. But they are used for eating. Now, do you know 
about how many children are fed there every day at 
the negro school?

A. I do not.
Q. Have you ever been in the gymnasium where 

they are fed during the lunch hour?
A. I have.
Q. But you don’t know the daily average on the 

feeding?
A. I have never questioned it.
Q. I believe you stated that the food was cooked 

at the plant over where the old high school building is 
and the new grade school building is and brought to 
the negro school to be delivered to the children?

A. I think that question was “ prepared”  and 1 
think I said it was “ prepared.”

Mr. McGregor:
I withdraw the question.

Q. You say the food was prepared at that plant?
A. I think that was the question directed to me at 

that time.
Q. Do you know whether or not the kitchen in 

which it is prepared is in the old part of the building 
or in the new building?

A. I don’t know.
Q- You don’t know where that is. In Plaintiff’s 

Exhibit 19 which I believe you described as a science 
room or chemistry room there is in that room a series 
of what appears to be cabinets on the left side of that 
picture. Do you know what is in those cabinets?

A. I have seen on the table in back some glass­
ware by going through occasionally and the science 
teacher is in operation, but I don’t know. I think it is 
supposed to house scientific equipment.



138

Q. But what is actually in there you do not know 
of your own knowledge?

A. I don’t know.
Q. Where do you take your lunch in the daytime, 

Mr. Jackson?
A. It is variable. Sometimes in the cafeteria, 

sometimes home and sometimes in the little eating 
places outside of the campus.

Q. You do frequently eat in the cafeteria in the 
gym ?

A. Well, occasionally I do. Well, I would say three 
times out of a week I eat in the cafeteria.

Q. Now, you have seen the bus system that is 
used to bring the children to school at the negro 
school, have you not?

A. I have.
Q. And you have seen the busses that are operated 

for the white school, have you?
A. No technical observation, just to look over 

there and see the busses.
Q. Do they look about the same to you?
A. About the same.

Mr. McGregor:
No further questions.

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Jackson, there is no steam table at the 

negro school is there, in the kitchen?
A. There is not.
Q. Now, I believe you said with reference to 

Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 21 that you kept some of the 
tools in the work shop back in that little room, is that 
right?



139

A. The tools ?
Q. The tools, and you have got shelves back there 

on which you hang your tools?
A. That is right.
Q. And all of the tools that are in the little work­

room are on those shelves?
A. They are in the shop.
Q. That is what I mean.
A. They are in the tool room.
Q. Either in the shop or in the tool room?
A. That is right.
Q. And in the tool room you have constructed 

your shelves along which to place or hang them on?
A. That is correct.
Q. I will ask you to examine Plaintiff’s Exhibit 

No. 21 and tell the Court how many shelves you have 
got in that tool room?

A. I think—
Q. Look—pardon me.
A. I think I have approximately five shelves in 

that tool room.
Q. Now I will ask you to examine the exhibit with 

the door of the tool room open. How many shelves can 
you see?

A. From this picture it is only one shelf to be 
seen.

Q. How large is that tool room?
A. That tool room is about, I will say, 5 by 8, 5 by 

7 or 5 by 8.
Q. And the shelves are built along in front of the 

door. That is true, isn’t it?
A. They are not built along in front of the door. 

You mean on this side? The shelves are just about 
all over the place, narrow shelves and—

Q. All over the place. Now, how wide would you 
say that door is?



140

A. That door is a normal door size, about, I guess, 
about 4, about a 4 by 7 or 4 by 6, Something like 
that.

Q. And what would you say that the weight of 
that door is?

A. 4 by 6.
Q. And you said that the tool room is about 8 by 

5?
A. Yes.
Q. And the door is open and that gives a clear 

view of the tool room, doesn’t it?
A. That gives a clear view of that shelf.
Q. There is only one shelf there?
A. That shelf.
Q. Now, I believe you testified with reference to 

your academic training in agriculture?
A. That is right.
Q. Where did you get your high school training?
A. Hilliard High, Bay City, Texas.
Q. Did you have the benefit of a laboratory in the 

high school there?
A. I did not.
Q. Now were you taught science in the high 

school?
A. I was not. We were taught science, I mean, it 

was makeshift science.
Q. You did not have the benefit of a laboratory?
A. We did not.
Q. Now, when you got to college did you continue 

in your course in science?
A. Of course.
Q. What school did you attend?
A. Prairie View.
Q. In your studies in science in college, did you 

have the benefit of a laboratory?
A. Of course.



141

Q. Tell the Court whether or not you, as a student, 
received any benefit by having the benefit of a labor­
atory in connection with your science?

A. It is obvious that the fact that I had a labora­
tory to work with I could have been better trained and 
as a result I got more out of having a laboratory to 
work with.

Q. Now is it your opinion from your actual experi­
ence and study that in studying science that you are 
benefited or that it is of educational value to have a 
laboratory to work in?

A. Of course.
Q. And you have no laboratory in connection with 

the school down at LaGrange, do you?
A. I don’t know. I said the science teacher told 

me that he is satisfied with the laboratory.
Q. Yes, satisfied, thank you. Now in pursuing your 

curse in agriculture did you use the laboratory in 
connection with any of the studies in college?

A. In college, I did.
Q. Were you benefited by the use of the labora­

tory?
A. I have answered that, yes.
Q. Well, you don’t mind answering it again.
A. Of course not, no.

The Court:
Well, there is no use asking him if you have asked 

it once.

Q. You think that a laboratory in connection with 
instruction in agriculture is of educational value to 
the school?

A. I do.



142

Q. Now, do you have any other vocational teachers 
in LaGrange School except yourself?

A. We have the home economics teacher.

The Court:
What sort of teacher?
A. Home economics, homemaking.

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
No further questions.

The Court:
Stand aside. We will take a recess of ten minutes. 

(Short recess.)

Mr. Tate:
Bring in Mr. Hickman, please.

R. C. HICKMAN, resumed the stand and testified 
as follows:

Direct Examination (Continued)

By Mr. Tate:

The Court:
You were a little late this morning, weren’t you?

Mr. Hickman: 
Yes, sir.



143

The Court:
Don’t repeat that any more.

Mr. Hickman:
No, sir.

The Court:
All right, go ahead.

Q. Now, Mr. Hickman, yesterday we were work­
ing on some pictures that you took on November 26, 
1949. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 33. Did you 
take that picture on that occasion?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What does that represent?
A. This is the girl’s washroom in the gymnasium 

of the colored school.
Q. All right. Thank you very kindly.

Mr. Tate:
We offer this in evidence, Your Honor.
(“ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 33”  was received in evidence.)

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 34. Did you 
take that picture on that occasion?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. These are the grounds of the white school.
Q. And what is shown on there?
A. In the center of the picture it shows the sta­

dium. To the left it shows the buildings of the white 
school and to the right is a barn used for—I see a 
cow in the barn.

(“ Plaintiff’s Exhibit 34”  was received in evidence.)



144

Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 35. Did you take 
that picture on that occasion?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent, sir?
A. This also shows the remaining grounds of the 

white high school.
Mr. Tate:

Plaintiff’s Exhibit 35.
( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 35” was received in evidence.)
Q. I show you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 36. Did you 

take that picture on that occasion?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what does that represent?
A. This represents the grounds of the colored 

school.
Q. In LaGrange, Texas?
A. In LaGrange, Texas.
( “ Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 36”  was received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tate:
We pass the witness, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
Do you want me to use 37 out of your series, 

Counsel?
Mr. Tate:

We are not using 37.
Mr. McGregor:

We are going to use it. If you want me to take it out 
of your series I will, or the one you have loaned 
me.
Mr. Tate:

That is quite all right.



145

Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. I hand you a picture here which is marked 

Plaintiff’s 37, but which has not been introduced as 
Plaintiff’s 37, and ask that it now be marked as De­
fendant’s proper number, whatever it may be.

(The photograph was marked “ Defendant’s Exhibit
2. ” )

Q. It now being marked Defendant’s Exhibit 2 I 
will ask you to examine that and tell me, please, did 
you take that picture?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. You took that picture. Does Defendant’s Exhi­

bit 2 illustrate a close-up of Defendant’s Exhibit 34?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, Defendant’s Exhibit 34 has not been 

introduced in evidence.

Mr. McGregor:
I beg your pardon, Plaintiff’s Exhibit 34.

Mr. Durham:
I was just trying to follow you, Mr. McGregor.

Q- Is Defendant’s Exhibit 2 a close-up of Plain­
tiffs Exhibit 34?

A. It is a closer shot than the Plaintiff’s 34 shot. 
Q. And what is shown in Defendant’s Exhibit 2? 
A. The stadium and the grounds on which you 

play football. It is the stadium and the football field.



146

Q. Do you know from what direction that picture 
was taken. That is, whether from the east or the 
west?

A. I am not familiar with the directions in La- 
Grange.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendant’s Exhibit 2 at this time.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 2” was received in evi­
dence.

The Court:
That is the colored or—

Mr. McGregor:
I will get to that point later on. I think I may, with 

consent of counsel, state that it is used by both negro 
students and the white students.

Mr. Durham:
I think that is true, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
We will prove it if necessary, but I think counsel 

will stipulate that if we ask him to.

Mr. Durham:
That is true.

The Court:
This is a close-up of the view portrayed in the other 

picture?

Mr. McGregor:
Yes, sir.



147

Q. Now, did you take any pictures other than— 

The Court:
These two pictures you have just been talking about 

do not reflect the ordinary playgrounds immediately 
around the school. These are places where they play.

Mr. McGregor:
That is the athletic field, I think we would be safe 

in saying.

The Court:
For playing big games?

Mr. Durham:
Yes, but it does not reflect, as Your Honor says, the 

playgrounds adjacent to the buildings.

Mr. McGregor:
And that particular field is used by both colored 

and white.

The Court:
By big games, I mean games outside of the scope 

of the school.

Mr. McGregor:
No. I think we can stipulate they are used on inter­

mural games within the scope of the school.

The Court:
The point I am getting at is this, that when school 

turns out for recess these are not the playgrounds to 
which the children go.



148

Mr. McGregor:
No, sir, it is not that.

Q. Now other than the pictures that were intro­
duced here in the course of your examination did you 
take any other pictures in the LaGrange Independent 
School District?

A. I took a picture that didn’t show. In other 
words, it was a faulty film in it, nothing on it.

Q. But you have produced here today all of the 
pictures that you did take except the one that was a 
faulty picture?

A. That is right.
Q. And also except No. 9 which was not intro­

duced because the plate was reversed?
A. I saw that picture here in the Court.
Q. Well, I mean by that, that was one that you did 

take, too, but the plate was reversed?
A. It was reversed.
Q. I take it from that then that you did not take 

any pictures of the LaGrange Independent School Dis­
trict plant at Ellinger?

A. At where?
Q. Ellinger, at a place called Ellinger?
A. I don’t know where that is.

The Court:
Is that a white school or colored school?

Mr. McGregor:
It is a white school.

Q. You don’t have any pictures of that, you did 
not take any pictures of that?

A. Well, I don’t know whether I did or not. I am 
not familiar with the thing.



149

Q, Well, did you take any pictures of any other 
school other than the two plants that are reflected in 
these photographs?

A. No, sir.
Q. So if there are other plants in the LaGrange 

Independent School District you did not take any 
other pictures of them?

A. I don’t know them.
Q. I know, but you did not—I want to be sure you 

did not take any more pictures.
A. Other than what we have shown here in the 

Court room.
Q. All right. Now, Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 1 and Plain­

tiff’s Exhibit 2 and Plaintiff’s Exhibit 3, you saw them 
as I went through them, did you?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. All represent an older building at a site where 

there is now adjacent to it, some 50 or 75 yards 
away, a newer building, do they not?

A. I only did the photography work on the pictures 
on there. I don’t know anything about it.

Q. I will ask you then you have before you Plain­
tiff’s Exhibit 7 and I ask you if that building in Plain­
tiff’s Exhibit 7 was not adjacent to the building in 
Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1?

A. It was to the right. Let me see, the—
Q. I am not asking you now whether it was to the 

right or to the left. I am just asking you if it was right 
adjacent to it. I do not mean connected with it.

A. Well, it is the grammar school.
Q- I am trying to find out now, it is right adjacent 

to Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1, 3 and 2, isn’t it?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, Plaintiff’s Exhibit 6, what part of the 

ground is that particular room on that this picture 
was taken of?



150

A. You mean where is the room located?
Q. Yes.
A. It is in the white school, is all I know.
Q. Well, is it a part of either one of the buildings 

reflected in the—
A. It is in the building.
Q. You had better let me finish.
A. It is in the building of the white school.
Q. Well, is it in either one of the buildings which 

are reflected in Plaintff’s Exhibit 1 or in Plaintiff’s 
Exhibit 7?

A. Well, I wouldn’t be able to say which one of 
those buildings.

Q. Thank you. Now on Plaintiff’s Exhibit 11 do you 
recall in what direction your camera was facing when 
you took that picture?

A. It is the front of the picture as you see it. The 
picture talks for itself. It is the front of it and that is 
the end of it.

Q. I understand that now but was your camera 
facing east or west?

A. Well, I don’t—I don’t know the directions fac­
ing that way. This is the outside here and there is a 
house over there shown in the picture.

Q. Well now, on Plaintiff’s Exhibit 11 there is a 
corridor that comes in right here, isn’t that true?

A. This is another walkway or whatever you might 
call it going to the left right in there.

Q. Well, as a matter of fact, there are two of 
them, aren’t there? Isn’t there one on this side and 
then one on the other side?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn’t take pictures of those other two 

corridors?
A. No, sir.



151

Q. Now in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 36 there appears to 
be some substance playing across or going across the 
base of that picture. Do you recall what that was?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was that?
A. Smoke.
Q. And what did it come from, do you recall?
A. Burning leaves or trash. There was a man out 

there. As you can see there is a cart there or truck. 
He was burning trash.

Q. I see. Now in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 36 I see two 
wings or ells coming out towards the center of that 
picture and I will ask you to look at the center of 
Exhibit 1 and tell me if that is a continuation of the 
building that is shown by each of the eaves over the 
new portion of the Randolph School?

A. Well, I wouldn’t be able to say that. I only did 
the photography work and that is what I did, and I 
only know about that.

Q. On Plaintiff’s Exhibit 33 there is indicated there 
some destruction of one of the fixtures in that parti­
cular room. I will ask you if you know of your own 
knowledge when that destruction or deterioration or 
whatever took place there occurred?

A. When it occurred? I wouldn’t know that.
Q. I am asking you if you know, not whether you 

would know or not?
A. I don’t know when it occurred.
Q. Thank you. What day was it that you took these 

pictures, that is to say, the day of the week?
A. The day of the week was on a Saturday.
Q. And had you been there some ten months pre­

vious taking some pictures?
A. No, I didn’t.
Q. Do you know Dr. Christopher?



152

A.
him.

I have heard of that name but I don’t know

Q. Do you know Mr. Kirk?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he with you at that time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you back there on the Monday following

the twenty-sixth?
A. Back there on Monday?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir.
Q. You were not. At the time that you took the

picture reflected in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 20 was there
anyone in that room at the time you arrived there?

A. I recall our going down to that room, Mr.—I 
mean the principal of the school.

Q. I asked you one simple question. Was there 
anybody in the room?

A. Not when the picture was made.
Q. I didn’t ask you that. I asked you was there 

anybody in the room when you got there?
A. I didn’t see anybody in there.
Q. And so there was no one in there at the time 

you got there?
A. I don’t understand you.
Q. All right. Now, I exhibit to you Plaintiff’s Ex­

hibit 26 and Plaintiff’s Exhibit 27. You have shown us 
two pictures of structures on properties where they 
are adjacent to one another and which you have iden­
tified as the white school, and I will ask you where 
Plaintiff’s Exhibit 26 and 27 was taken, in respect 
of which building they were in?

A. This was in the white school. This is in the 
cafeteria and this is the steam table.

Q. Well, I say, what building were they in?



153

A. In the white school.
Q. Well, there were two buildings there adjacent 

to one another, weren’t there?
A. Yes, there were.
Q. Now then, which one of those buildings was 

this?
A. It was the newly constructed building.
Q. In the newly constructed building. Thank you.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all from us.

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, the plaintiff desires to call Mr. Lem­

mons, one of the defendants, under Rule 43-B.

The Court:
All right.

Mr. McGregor:
What is that rule, Counsel?

Mr. Durham:
43-B? The adverse rule.



154

C. A. LEMMONS, was called as a witness on behalf 
of the plaintiff and, having been first duly sworn, tes­
tified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. What are your initials, Mr. Lemmons?
A. C. A. Lemmons.

The Court:
How do you spell your name?

A. L e m m o n s .

The Court:
All right.

Q. Are you officially connected with the LaGrange 
Independent School District?

A. I am.
Q. What is your official connection, Mr. Lem­

mons?
A. I am superintendent of LaGrange Independent 

School District?
Q. How many schools are embraced in the La 

Grange Independent School District?
A. Do you mean separate plants?
Q. Separate plants, yes, sir.
A. There are five.
Q. How many of those plants are within the con­

fines of the city limits of the City of LaGrange or 
town of LaGrange?

A. Three.
Q. How many of those plants are used by negro 

students or pupils?



155

A. One.
Q. How many of those schools within the city 

limits of LaGrange, Texas, are used by white students 
or pupils?

A. Two.
Q. How many of those schools are elementary 

schools, Mr. Lemmons?

The Court:
You mean within LaGrange?

Q. Within the city limits of LaGrange.
A. You mean for white or colored children?
Q. Well, first, how many are elementary schools?
A. There is one elementary school and one com ­

bination elementary and high school.
Q. Now is the separate elementary school used 

by negro or white students?
A. It is used by white students through the first 

six grades. The white students from  grades 7 to 8 
are in the same building with the high school in the 
white school.

Q. How many rooms are there in the elementary 
school used by white students?

A. In the separate plants?
Q. In the separate plants, yes, sir.
A. There are 12 classrooms, a library room, a 

cafeteria, and a principal’ s office.
Q. Then there are 14—15 rooms?
A. Well, there are 12 classrooms.
Q. The library, the cafeteria and the principal’s 

office?
A. Yes.
Q. That would be 15 rooms in the plant used as 

a separate elementary school for whites. How recent 
is the construction of that building?



156

A. That plant was completed between the fifteenth 
day of August of this year and the first of September. 
I don’t know the exact date.

Q. The fifteenth day of August of 1949 and the 
first day of September 1949?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, was there a building, a plant, in the city 

limits of LaGrange, Texas, where white students, 
both elementary pupils and high school pupils at­
tended at the time this construction was started in 
August, 1949?

A. There was.
Q. Was it in operation?
A. Yes.
Q. And for how long, Mr. Lemmons, had that 

school plant been in operation?
A. I don’t know. The marker on the front of it 

indicates that it was completed in 1923 or 1924.
Q. Thank you. Now how many rooms did that 

plant have?
A. I will have to count them up. About 24 to 26 

rooms.
Q. About 24 to 26 rooms. How many classrooms 

did the building which is now being used as a high 
school and elementary school have on the date of the 
construction of the new elementary school for whites 
was started?

A. Same thing.
Q. Did they have 24 to 26 classrooms?
A. I believe so.
Q. Now was the principal’s office located there?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any other building upon this ground, 

I mean, in connection with this plant?
A. No. I included those other classrooms in the 

number I gave you to start with, I believe.



157

Q. 26.
A. I believe so.
Q. Now was the library housed in the building that 

was in existence and used by whites on the date the 
elementary school for whites was started?

A. Yes.
Q. How many volumes, Mr. Lemmons, did you 

have in the library in the old high school? Let me 
refer to it that way, please, for whites.

A. Do you mean books furnished by the State or 
books that have been bought and put in the library?

Q. Well, I am not particularly interested as to the 
source from which they came. I am interested in 
knowing the number in there.

A. Well, if you consider the books that are fur­
nished by the State Department of Education and 
those which have been bought from different sources 
and put into the Public Library there, I do not know 
how many it would be. Several thousand.

Q. Thank you. Now did you make a sworn report 
to the State Superintendent for the school year 1947- 
1948?

A. I did.
Q. And did you list in that sworn report the num­

ber of volumes that you had in the library?
A. I believe I did.
Q. Did you list in that report the value of the 

school property that the school district owns?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you list the amount of money invested in 

school property including furniture and equipment in 
the school used exclusively for whites?

A. I did.
Q- Did you list in that report the money invested 

by the School Board of LaGrange for property includ-



158

ing sites, building, equipment and furniture used by 
negro students?

A. I did.
Q. Now, you were requested in a subpoena duces 

tecum to bring a copy of that report.
A. That is right.
Q. Did you bring a copy of that report, Mr. 

Lemmons?
A. I did.
Q. May I see it at this time, please?

Mr. McGregor:
Counsel seems to have one. Why don’t we just use 

that?

Mr. Durham:
Well, we wanted to compare them, Your Honor. If 

he will identify this one, I have no objection.

Mr. McGregor:
All right, Mr. Lemmons, go and get it.

Q. May I see the report, Mr. Lemmons?
A. For 1947-1948.
Q. 1947-1948, please, sir. Now I believe you said 

that there were several thousand volumes or books 
in the library at the white high school. That is the one 
that was in existence at the time the construction of 
the new elementary school which is now used by 
whites was started?

A. Yes.
Q. Now after the construction and completion of 

the elementary school for whites was there a library 
established in that school?

A. In the new school?



159

Q. Yes, sir.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many volumes would you say, that is, 

bound volumes of books, Mr. Lemmons, would you 
say there are in the library for the new elementary 
school which is used exclusively by whites in La- 
Grange Independent School District?

A. I don’t recall. There is probably—there is not 
over, probably 75, 100 volumes in that library now.

Q. Now have you a laboratory in the white high 
school, in LaGrange?

A. Yes, I do.
Q. Now what is that laboratory equipped with, Mr. 

Lemmons?
A. It is equipped with the regular laboratory 

equipment that is used to teach general science, 
biology and chemistry.

Q. Is chemistry taught in the white high school?
A. It is.
Q. Is solid geometry taught in the white high 

school?
A. Yes. Let me correct myself there. I don’t be­

lieve solid geometry has been taught in the white 
high school for the past two years. It is offered. If we 
get a large enough number of students requesting it, 
we teach it.

Q. It is offered, though, in the white high school?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I believed you filed with the State Superin­

tendent of the State of Texas the list of courses that 
would be taught in the high school attended by white 
students in LaGrange and also the subjects that would 
be taught in the negro high school for the year 
1947-1948?

A. I don’t recall that.



160

Q. Will you check your records and see whether 
you did or not?

A. The State Department of Education does not 
require me to file a list of the courses you are going 
to teach.

Q. That you are offering, I mean?
A. No, they don’t do that.
Q. All right, thank you. Is trigonometry offered 

in the negro school in LaGrange?
A. It will be.
Q. I say, is it offered?
A. If we have a demand for it.
Q. Has it been offered this year?
A. Not this year.
Q. Is cemistry offered in the LaGrange negro 

school for the present term?
A. It is.
Q. Do you have a laboratory there?
A. I do.
Q. Will you tell the Court what is in that labora­

tory?
A. We have, let’s see. Last year we bought some 

five or six hundred dollars worth of laboratory 
equipment and we have transferred laboratory equip­
ment from the white school as it is needed until we 
have enough equipment to perform the elementary 
experiments over there.

Q. Will you give the Court in detail the instru­
ments and the chemicals that you have transferred to 
the negro school?

A. No, I can’t recall that.
Q. Now in making a transfer of school property 

from one school to another, you do keep a record of 
that, don’t you, Mr. Lemmons?

A. No, we don’t.



161

Q. You don’t keep a record of school property?
A. We do not keep a record of expendable prop­

erty, no.
Q. You make no record of any equipment that is 

transferred from the white school to the negro 
school?

A. No. We buy our equipment in large quantities, 
all of our equipment and supplies, and keep it in a 
central storeroom. When it is needed, it is trans­
ferred to the school in which it is to be used. For 
example, floor sweeps, tissue, paper towels, chemi­
cal supplies, text books and all of those things go 
into a central storeroom. They are checked in and 
checked out to the school that needs them.

Q. Thank you. And you don’t keep any record of 
the expenses including chemicals and necessaries 
to each school, do you?

A. Not an absolute breakdown because those 
chemicals are consummable and they are used as 
they are needed.

Q. Now I believe you made a sworn statement to 
the Superintendent of the Department of Education 
of the State of Texas listing the cost of operation of 
negro school separate from white, didn’t you?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now then, the chemicals and other things, floor 

sweeps and such items as those, you did not include 
them in your budget. Was that a part of the opera­
tional expense of the negro school?

A. It was. We estimate the number that are 
used in each school. We cannot keep a breakdown on 
every mop or broom transferred from one school to 
another.

Q. Well, how do you apportion their expenses if 
you keep no record up?



162

A. By matter of judgment. We cannot—we do not 
have a secretarial force large enough to keep a 
breakdown on the transfer of paper and chemicals. 
On large supplies like furniture, on those things, we 
keep a breakdown.

Q. Now, have you a teacher in the negro school 
teaching chemistry?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is the name?
A. Connie Brown.
Q. What certificate or certificates or degrees does 

he hold?
A. He has a Bachelor’s Degree.
Q. From what school?
A. Prairie View.
Q. I believe you were requested to bring a copy 

of the transcript of your teachers in the subpoena?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now, is physics offered in the negro school?
A. It is.
Q. Do you teach it?
A. No.
Q. Is physics offered in the white school?
A. It is.
Q. Do you have a teacher for physics?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have a laboratory to teach physics?
A. It is taught in the same laboratory that chem­

istry, biology and general science are taught in.
Q. Now I believe you offer mechanical drawing, 

unit 1, in the white school?
A. We do.
Q. It is not offered in the negro school?
A. It is offered but not taught because there is 

no demand for it.



163

Q. Have you a teacher?
A. No, sir.
Q. I believe shop work with two units is offered 

in the white school?
A. It is.
Q. I believe it is not offered in the negro school?
A. No, it is not being taught in the white school 

either. It is offered in both schools, but there is no 
demand for it.

Q. You have a teacher in the white school?
A. No.
Q. You don’t have a teacher eligible to teach shop 

work with two units?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And you don’t have one in the negro school?
A. I believe Professor Jackson is eligible to teach 

it.
Q. You believe Professor Jackson. That is the 

man that testified this morning?
A. I believe he is.
Q. Have you a teacher employed to teach shop 

work, two units?
A. No.
Q. I believe you have bookkeeping and it is a part 

of the curricula in the white school?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have a teacher to teach that subject?
A. I do.
Q. That subject is offered in the white school?
A. Yes.
Q- And it is not offered in the negro school?
A. I believe it is being taught over there this 

year. No, it is not being taught in there this year.
Q- It is not being taught there. Commercial arith­

metic is offered in the white school?



164

A. It may be offered. It is not being taught. It has 
not been taught for three years.

Q. It is not being offered in the colored school, is 
it?

A. Yes.
Q. Have you a teacher to teach it?
A. Yes. I have one who is qualified to teach it.
Q. What is the name?
A. I believe Mrs. Duvall.
Q. What subjects was she employed to teach?
A. She was employed to teach choral and type­

writing.
Q. Do you know what her academic training is in 

bookkeeping?
A. No, I don’t.
Q. You do not know whether she is efficient or 

not, do you, Mr. Lemmons?
A. I would if I had my transcript of credits here, 

but I have 55 teachers and I cannot remember the 
qualifications of each one of them.

Q. But as of now you do not know whether she is 
academically qualified, do you?

A. No.
Q. I believe they are offered secretarial training 

in the white school?
A. They are.
Q. It is not being offered in the colored school?
A. They are teaching typewriting and shorthand 

over there.
Q. All right. Thank you. Now we get back to my 

question. In the white high school there is secretarial 
training offered?

A. There is.
Q. You have a teacher who in your opinion is 

academically qualified to teach?



165

A Yes.
Q. That course is not offered in the negro school?
A. No. They requested typewriting and shorthand.
Q. Now, who do you mean by “ they?”
A. The students in the Randolph High School for 

negroes.
Q. Now how was that request made?
A. They make a request to the principal of the 

school at the end of the year for the courses they 
want to take.

Q. That is the report that the principal gives you?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, of your own knowledge, you don’t know 

whether the students made any request or not. Your 
information came from  the principal?

A. That is right.
Q. That is right, thank you. Music with four units 

including a band. Music is offered in the white 
school?

A. Yes.
Q. And you have a teacher employed, that in your 

opinion, from his transcript, is qualified to teach, is 
that right?

A. That is right.
Q. That same course is not offered in the negro 

school ?
A. It is.
Q. Do you have a teacher employed to teach band 

music?
A. He is.
Q- And music for four units?
A. He is qualified to teach four units of music.
Q- What is that teacher’s name?
A. Magruder.
Q- Was he employed to teach band music?
A. Band music and history.



166

Q. And history. Now, I believe safety education 
is taught in the white school?

A. It is.
Q. And you have a teacher employed to teach that 

safety who from your opinion, in his transcript, is 
qualified to teach it?

A. Yes.
Q. You don’t offer that course in the negro school?
A. Yes, we offer safety in the negro school.
Q. Have you a teacher employed to teach that 

subject?
A. Yes.
Q. What is his name?
A. He is the coach. That course is taught in con­

nection with physical education and his name is Les­
ter Eaton.

Q. All right. What is his academic training for 
safety education?

A. He has a Master’s Degree from  Prairie View 
College and he has three years teaching experience 
here in Wheatley School in Houston, and I don’t know 
exactly how many semester hours of work he has of 
physical education or safety education, but he is one 
of the best qualified teachers I have over there or 
in the whole system.

Q. Well, let me ask you this, Mr. Lemmons. A man 
may be qualified professionally to do certain work 
but unless he is academically qualified to do a par­
ticular job the fact that he is professionally qualified 
to do many things would not qualify him academi­
cally to do a particular thing, would it?

A. I don’t understand your question.
Q. Well, I will try to make it clear. If a man has 

a Doctor’s Degree in physics, science, he would be 
professionally prepared to teach science, wouldn’t



167

he? But if he was shifted to teach short hand, he would 
not be academically efficient to teach shorthand if he 
had none?

A, No. If he had not been trained in shorthand, he 
would not.

Q. Now the fact that the man you have just 
spoken about has taught in some other field, in your 
opinion that would not qualify him to teach such a 
subject as, say, safety education unless he was aca­
demically prepared to do that?

A. I do not know whether he is academically pre­
pared to teach safety education or not until I check 
his transcript.

Q. You cannot tell the Court at this time whether 
or not you have a teacher in the negro school who 
has the academic preparation to teach safety educa­
tion, can you, Mr. Lemmons?

A. I believe Mr. Jackson has it.
Q. You believe?
A. I mean, Mr. Eaton. I believe Mr. Eaton has it, but 

I would have to check the records.
Q. You would have to check the records. But you do 

know you have a teacher in the white school who has the 
academic qualifications?

A. He has.
Q. I will show you what has been introduced as Plain­

tiffs Exhibit No. 6, Mr. Lemmons. I will ask you if the 
instruments and furniture in that room reflect a portion 
of the wind instruments used in connection with teaching 
students in the white high school, teaching music, band 
music in LaGrange High School?

A. It does.
Q. Now do you have any room comparable, fixtures or 

equipment, in any room in the school to which Negro stu­
dents are permitted to attend?



168

A. They have a classroom which is similar to this one.
Q. I will ask my question again. I will ask you to ex­

amine that picture and the objects reflected in there and 
tell the Court whether or not you have any room in the 
Negro school comparable to that room, including buildings, 
instruments, equipment and furniture?

A. No, not including instruments. We have a room 
comparable to everything except the instruments,

Q. Now I will show you, Mr. Lemmons, what has been 
introduced as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 5. It has been testi­
fied that—I will ask you to examine that exhibit including 
the furniture, fixtures and equipment and I will ask you 
if that reflects substantially the equipment, furniture and 
fixtures in that room where bookkeeping is taught in the 
white high school?

A. It does.
Q. Now do you have any room equipped in the Negro 

school within the city limits of LaGrange, Texas, that is 
comparable to that room for teaching purposes including 
fixtures, furniture and equipment?

Mr. McGregor:
I am going to object to that question as being confined 

to the city limits of LaGrange, Texas. This is a suit 
against the LaGrange Independent School District.

Mr. Durham:
Well, I will change this question, if the Court please.

Q. Is there any room including fixtures, furniture and 
equipment, that is comparable to that room in the col­
ored school known and styled as the Randolph Negro 
School in LaGrange, Texas?



169

Mr. McGregor:
Object to that question as not being responsive to any 

issue in this case. The issue is whether there is subtan- 
tial equality between the facilities that are supplied for 
the Negro students in the LaGrange Independent School 
District and the white students in the same district.

The Court:
Objection overruled.

Mr. McGregor:
Note our exception.

A. Would you restate your question?

Mr. McGregor:
I see one of my witnesses in the court room. Mr. Page, 

did you just come in? Would Your Honor inform him 
that the witnesses are under the rule?

The Court:
Have him come around and let him be sworn.

(The witness was sworn.)

The Court:
The witnesses have been placed outside the court room 

under the rule but will remain within the call of the bai­
liff.

Q. I will ask you again. I believe you have testified 
that that room, that picture which is shown in Plaintiffs 
Exhibit No. 5, represents the room, the equipment and the 
furniture used in connection with teaching bookkeeping in 
the white high school in LaGrange, Texas, to which only 
white students are permitted to attend?



170

A. That is right.
Q. I will ask you if you have any room prepared in the 

Negro school known as the Randolph Colored School in 
LaGrange, Texas, with equipment including fixtures, fur­
niture and equipment comparable to that room?

Mr. McGregor:
Let the record show I am repeating that objection.

A. We do not have a room equipped with the type of 
desks over there.

Q. Now I will ask you that room that is used for short­
hand and typewriting in the Negro school, if it is not used 
for the library?

A. It is.
Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, you testified at the beginning 

of your testimony that there were how many schools in 
the LaGrange Independent School District?

A. I believe there are five. Five separate plants.
Q. All right. How many high schools have you in the 

LaGrange Independent School District?
A. Two.
Q. Where are they located with reference to the city 

limits of the City of LaGrange? Are they inside or out­
side of the city limits?

A. They are inside the city limits of LaGrange.
Q. All right. Now there are three schools in the La­

Grange Independent District located within the city limits 
of the City of LaGrange?

A. Yes.
Q. Now there are two located outside of the city limits 

then?
A. There are.
Q. What are the names of those schools?
A. One of them is Ellinger School. The other is the 

Warda School.



171

Q. Those are elementary schools?
A. They are.
Q, Are they used for colored or white people?
A. White people.
Q. Now I will hand you a copy of your report which 

you filed with the State Superintendent for the school 
year 1947-1948. Was that report for the entire Independ­
ent School District of LaGrange?

A. It was.
Q. Now I believe in that report you showed the daily 

average attendance of white students. Page 7, Mr. Lem­
mons.

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now at that time I believe you had three schools 

for white in 1947-1948, one in LaGrange and two outside 
of the city limits?

A. That was in 1947-1948.
Q. 1947-1948, two years ago?
A. Two years ago. Let me think now. No, there were 

three white schools that I can recall now outside of the 
city limits of LaGrange.

Q. It was three then?
A. It may have been more. I remember we closed one 

at the beginning of this school year and I don’t recall—
Q. Well, just your best recollection. You had at least 

three, in your opinion?
A. Yes.
Q. In the 1947-1948 school term?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have reported a daily average attendance 

of 600. What was the daily average attendance, I will ask 
you, for the white school?

A. 696.5.
Q. And .5. And you had three school plants for the 

white students on that date?



172

A. There were three or more.
Q. Now how many schools in the LaGrange Independ­

ent School District did you have for Negroes on that date?
A. Let me see. We had one at LaGrange—we had 

three or four.
Q. Three or four. Now, what was the daily average 

attendance of Negro students?
A. 343.7.
Q. Now in the beginning of that school year of 1948- 

1949, I believe you have testified that you had five schools 
in all in the LaGrange Independent School District?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Three in the city?
A. Yes.
Q. Now of those five, how many of the school plants 

were Negro students permitted to use?
A. The one, the Randolph School.
Q. And how many of those five school plants were 

white students permitted to use?
A. Four.
Q. Now taking your report for the school year 1948 

when we had five plants in the system, four for white and 
one for Negroes, what was the daily average attendance 
for white?

A. Let’s see. This is not my copy. For white?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. You have here 762.

Mr. Durham:
Well, Your Honor, I don’t want him to testify—

A. I would rather testify from my own, if you don’t 
mind.

Mr. Durham:
If the Court please, would you let him get his own?



173

The Court:
Yes, all right.

A. Average daily attendance for white, 762.
Q. And at that time you had four plants for the attend­

ance of 762 students on a daily average. Now for that 
same period of time will you tell the Court what the aver­
age daily attendance of Negro students was?

A. What page is that?
Q. Page 9.
A. 379.
Q. Now in the school year 1948-1949 you had plant 

facilities, four plant facilities to accommodate a daily 
average of 762 white students.

A. Yes.
Q. And for Negro students you had one plant to accom­

modate 379 students on a daily average?
A. In 1948-1949.
Q. 1948-1949.
A. No, at that time we were operating, I told you a 

while ago, we were operating one colored school in La- 
Grange, one at Plum and one at Holman. There were 
three of them in 1948-1949 in operation.

Q. How many are you operating now?
A. Only one.
Q. When did you cease operating the other schools?
A. They closed—at the close of the last school term, 

1948-1949 school term.
Q. How many schools did you have for Negroes in 

1948-1949?
A. Three.
Q. Now where were the other two located other than 

the Randolph School?
A- One at Plum and one at Holman.



174

Q. Now how many rooms were in the school at
for Negroes?

A. Three.
Q. How many teachers?
A. Two.
Q. How many rooms were at the other school?
A. Two.
Q. How many rooms?
A. Two rooms.
Q. And two teachers?
A. No, one teacher.

The Court:
When you closed those schools what did you do with 

the scholars? Did you send them by bus?

A. Yes, sir. We took them on busses and brought them 
into the Randolph School.

Q. Now the schools you were operating for whites out­
side of the city limits of LaGrange during the same period 
of time I have indicated to you, how many rooms were 
in each of those schools?

Mr. McGregor:
I have not objected to this but it seems to me the schools 

are closed and it is going rather far afield to go back that 
far.

The Court:
I will hear it.

A. Would you restate that question?
Q. The schools that were operated for whites, I mean 

the school plants outside of the city limits of LaGrange 
during the same period of time I have indicated to you,



175

that I have interrogated you about, the school years 1947- 
1948 and 1948-1949, how many rooms did you have in the 
schools for whites?

A. At the Ellinger white school I had four classrooms. 
At the Plum white school I had three classrooms.

Q. What about Warda?
A. One classroom at Warda.

The Court:
Court will recess until 2:00 o’clock.

(Recessed at 12:00 o’clock noon.)

Afternoon Session.

2:00 p. m.

The Court:
Be seated, gentlemen. 

You may proceed.

C. A. LEMMONS resumed the stand and testified as 
follows:

Direct Examination— (Continued).

By Mr. Durham:
Q- Mr. Lemmons, you are the same witness that was 

testifying when the Court recessed for lunch this morn­
ing?

A. I am.
Q- Now when were the repairs completed on the Ran­

dolph Colored School?



176

A. They were completed the same time that the con­
struction work was completed on the white school.

Q. That is about September 1?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Of 1949?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I am going to show you what has been intro­

duced as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 12. I will ask you to ex­
amine that instrument, please, that exhibit. I will ask you 
if that room, the objects shown in there, represent the 
equipment that is contained in the rooms used for a li­
brary in the Public High School used for white students 
in LaGrange?

A. It does.

Mr. Durham:
That is Exhibit No. 12.

Q. 1 will ask you now if you have a room equipped 
comparable for a library room in the Negro school?

A. We have a similar room. It is not exactly like that.
Q. Are the furnishings and the equipment and the 

volumes comparable to these?
A. The shelving is comparable. The number of vol­

umes is—there are more volumes in the white library than 
there are in the colored school library.

Q. Now you have a lending desk, I believe, shelf, in 
your library at the white school?

A. I do.
Q. I will show you what has been introduced as Plain- 

itff’s Exhibit No. 15. I will ask you if that does not rep­
resent the room designated as a library in the Randolph 
School for colored pupils?

A. It does.



177

Q. Now I will ask you this question. In your opinion 
as an educator is the library furnished and equipped in the 
high school in LaGrange Independent School District com­
parable in volume and equipment to the library room 
designated for Negroes?

A. There are not as many volumes in the library for 
Negroes as there are in the library for the white school.

Q. What about the other, the furnishings?
A. There is a teacher’s desk in the library for Negroes 

which is used as a charge-out desk. There is counter in 
the library for the white high school students which is 
used as a charge-out desk.

Q. Thank you. Now is it your testimony that the fur­
niture, fixtures and equipment in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 12 are 
comparable, in your opinion, to the fixtures, furniture and 
equipment shown in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 15?

Mr. McGregor:
I want to make the same objection. The issue in this 

case is whether or not they are substantially equal, not 
whether they are comparable.

The Court:
Objection overruled. I will hear it.

Mr. McGregor:
Note our exception.

The Court:
Of course, I am not passing on any question of law.

A. Will you restate the question, please?
Q- I will ask you, in educational value, you as an edu­

cator and superintendent of the public schools of the La- 
Grange Independent School District, for educational value



178

is the room equipped for the library in the Negro school 
equal substantially to the room equipped for the white 
school?

A. If the room in the Negro school had the same num­
ber of volumes in the library, it would be comparable.

Q. Thank you. Now in the absence of those volumes 
is it comparable?

A. No.
Q. Thank you. I show you here what has been intro­

duced as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 18. Will you please ex­
amine it?

A. I recognize it, yes.
Q. What do you recognize that to be, Mr. Lemmons?
A. This is a photograph of the chemistry and science 

laboratory in the white high school at LaGrange, Texas.
Q. Will you tell the Court what equipment is in there?
A. There are four students laboratory desks for the 

conduction of experiments. There is a storage cabinet 
alongside one wall. There is a small storage cabinet 
alongside of another wall and the door leading into the 
science or chemical supply room is open and you can see 
into the supply room.

Q. Do you see anything else in there you recognize?
A. Well, I recognize everything in there.
Q. I will ask you are there any faucets and running 

water in that room?
A. There is.
Q. Do you see anything else that you recognize in the 

laboratory for the white students?
A. Well, there is a Bunsen burner on the table. There 

is a brick on the table. There is a crucible on one table. 
There is a balance, a set of weights, a test tube holder 
with three or four test tubes in it and there are numerous 
other items of laboratory equipment that are stored back 
on the shelves and I cannot identify them.



179

Q. Thank you very much. I will ask you to examine 
what has been introduced as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 19. 
Do you recognize that room?

A. I do.
Q. What is that room designated as?
A. That is the science room at Randolph Colored High 

School.
Q. I will ask you as superintendent of the Independent 

School District of LaGrange, Texas, and as an educator, in 
your opinion, as those rooms are now equipped, are they 
equal or substantially equal for educational purposes and 
especially the teaching of physics and chemistry?

A. Well, this photograph, Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 19, 
does not show all of the equipment that is in the Randolph 
School, while that one shows much more of the equipment 
in the white high school laboratory.

Q. All right. Now what is deleted in that exhibit, 
what is not shown in Exhibit No. 19 that is actually in 
that room?

A. These cupboards alongside the wall are—contain 
quite a bit of experimental equipment and there is quite a 
bit of equipment contained in the storeroom to which the 
door is open there.

Q. Well, that in the storeroom is shown and the door 
is open?

A. Only part of it. There are shelves along three walls 
there which are not shown.

Q Thank you. Now is there any running water in 
that room?

A. No, there is not.
Q. Any faucets in that room?
A. No.
Q- Nowt in your opinion, taking into consideration 

what you said is not shown, in your opinion is this 
room as equipped—



180

A, No, it is not.
Q. No, I did not get my question finished. With all 

of the other items that you said were in this room that 
are not shown in this picture, in your opinion is that 
room as it is equipped now of the same educational 
value in teaching chemistry and physics as to equip­
ment, furniture and facilities in this room?

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that on the same ground as stated before 

as the issue in the case is whether or not it is sub­
stantially equal.

The Court:
Same ruling.

Mr. McGregor:
Exception.

A. It would be substantially equal if laboratory 
tables of the type that are shown in the photograph of 
the white laboratory were in the laboratory at Ran­
dolph Colored School.

Q. Now, since they are not in there, as they stand 
today, are they of equal educational value?

Mr. McGregor:
Same objection. Go ahead.

A. They are with that exception.
Q. Well, thank you for that, but answer this ques­

tion if you will. Now, as they stand, with those things 
not being there, are they of substantially equal edu­
cational value?



181

A. Well, the answer is still the same. If they were 
there, they would be equal.

Q. Well, thank you very much. But they are not 
there. But with them not being there are they of sub­
stantially equal educational value?

A. That is the only difference. Therefore, the an­
swer is no.

Q. Thank you. Thank you. Now, Mr. Lemmons, I 
believe you testified that a class was being taught in 
the room designated for the negro library. Is that 
right?

A. I did.
Q. There is no class being taught in the library set 

aside for the library in the white school?
A. No.
Q. Does that detract from the value of a library 

where a class is being taught and students are trying 
to study?

A. Will you state that question again, please?
Q. Does that detract from the value of that por­

tion of the building set aside for library purposes to 
have a class going on in the room which is a library?

A. It would.
Q. Mr. Lemmons, I will have to show you three ex­

hibits together for the reason that they represent, I 
think, one room. I show you Exhibit Nos. 25, 26 and 
27. Would you please examine them. Do you recognize 
those exhibits and what building that room is in?

A. I do.
Q. What room is that, Mr. Lemmons?
A. That is, two of them, 25 and 27 are—I beg your 

pardon, 27 and 26, are photographs of the cafeteria in 
the white school, and photograph No. 25 is a photo­
graph of the kitchen in the white school.

Q- Now what do you see in that kitchen?



182

A. I see two gas stoves, two sinks with drainboards, 
coffee pot, dish pans, pans and other cooking utensils.

Q. Now that is Exhibit No. 25?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I will ask you to examine Exhibit 26. Is that 

still a part of the cafeteria?
A. It is.
Q. What do we have there? What do you find there, 

Mr. Lemmons?
A. A steam table.
Q. Now in Exhibit No. 27 what do you find, please, 

sir?
A. It is a view of the serving area in the cafeteria 

at the Hermes White School.
Q. Now do you have a steam table in any room 

over at the negro school?
A. I do not.
Q. For what purpose did you install this steam 

table in the white school?
A. To keep the food warm as it is served.
Q. And do you think that is of benefit to the chil­

dren?
A. It is.
Q. Now, the food is prepared at the white school, is 

it not?
A. It is.
Q. And it is sent to the negro school?
A. Yes.
Q. What is the distance from where the food is 

prepared in the white school to the negro school?
A. I would judge about half a mile or possibly 

three-quarters of a mile.
Q. How is the food carried from the white school 

to the negro school?
A. In a pick-up truck.



183

Q. Is the food heated between the time it leaves 
the white school half a mile away before it is fed to 
the negro children?

A. It is.
Q. How is it heated?
A. On a gas stove.
Q. On a gas stove?

The Court:
Gas stove where?

A. In the cafeteria, of the negro school.
Q. Now have you ever been present when they 

were heating it?
A. I have not.
Q. And all you know about it is what somebody told 

you. You don’t actually know whether it was heated 
or not?

A. No. I instructed the cooks to heat it before it 
was served.

Q. But as to whether or not that was done you don’t 
know?

A. No.
Q. I hand you what has been introduced as Plain­

tiff’s Exhibit No. 28. Do you recognize that?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is that?
A. That is the kitchen at Randolph School.
Q. Now what type of heating system, Mr. Lem­

mons, do you have in the elementary school recently 
completed for whites?

A. We have a gas fired boiler system.
Q. What is known as a central heating system?
A. Yes, it is.



184

Q. It has ducts through which the heat comes into 
the room?

A. It does, in the classrooms.
Q. In the classrooms?
A. Yes.
Q. Now in each of the classrooms of the elementary 

school which was completed for whites about Septem­
ber 1, 1949, in passing from one classroom to the 
other there is a door leading out of those classrooms 
into the next classroom. That is true, isn’t it?

A. Yes.
Q. In the negro school which was repaired for the 

attendance of negro pupils, in order to reach one class­
room from the next classroom the negro students 
must pass out into the open corridor which is shown 
on Plaintiff’ s Exhibit No. 11, that is true, isn’t it?

A. Yes.
Q. And what is the teacher load with reference to 

number in the negro school?
A. May I refer to my notes?
Q. Yes, I will be glad if you will, Mr. Lemmons.
A. In the negro school we have 18 teachers and 

we have an enrollment of 439, and an average daily 
attendance of 363.

Q. Now how much load is that per student per 
teacher?

A. I don’t believe I have divided it out. I can—
Q. Well, is it about equally divided among the 

teachers?
A. Yes.
Q. Now is there any type of heating for this open 

corridor?
A. There is not.
Q. Now I believe these represent the doors on 

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 19. These are about the loca­



185

tions of the doors, are they not? The doors, is that 
about right?

A. That is right.
Q. Now what would you say was the distance from 

one door, say, beginning with the first door in this open 
corridor, to the next classroom?

A. About 32 or 34 feet.
Q. About 32 or 34 feet. Now both ends of this open 

corridor are open?
A. Yes.
Q. The children have no protection from cold wea­

ther in this corridor when they leave the classroom 
and go from one classroom to another?

A. They have protection from the rain but not 
from the cold weather.

Q. All right. Now what type of heating system do 
you have in the negro school?

A. We have individual gas heaters which are of the 
blower type with thermostatic controls on them.

Q. When a door remains open in a room where you 
have the blower type system of heating does the room 
chill quickly?

A. I don’t know what you mean by “ quickly.”
Q. Does it chill any quicker than steam heat, even 

heat?
A. I don’t believe it would.
Q. You don’t believe it would?
A. I don’t know.
Q. Now in passing out of one classroom into this 

open corridor these doors are required to remain open 
until that class passes out?

A. That is true.
Q- And it remains open until another class passes 

m> ^ another class is going into that classroom for 
that period?



186

A. Yes.
Q. And during that period of time the children are 

marching in the open corridor?
A. Yes.
Q. Are the white children required to leave the 

classroom and go out into an open corridor or is the 
corridor in the white school enclosed?

A. It is enclosed.
Q. It has both shelter and enclosure?
A. Yes.
Q. And it has heat in the corridor?
A. Yes.
Q. The same heat, the same temperature that is 

in the room?
A. Approximately, yes.
Q. Approximately, yes. Now, in traveling from the 

classroom to the gymnasium or the cafeteria, I be­
lieve in the negro school they are compelled to travel 
through this open corridor?

A. Yes.
Q. And the girls going to the restroom, coming 

from  classes now must go through this open corridor?
A. Yes.
Q. And out into the back of the building, out to 

the back of the school building?
A. Yes. The restroom is at the end of the open 

corridor.
Q. Yes. The boys likewise traveling from the class­

rooms going to the restrooms must travel through this 
open corridor and out into the back of the building, is 
that right?

A. Yes.
Q. Now where are the restrooms in the white ele­

mentary school?
A. They are located between the classrooms.



187

Q. Located between classrooms. And the heat in 
the restrooms in the white elementary school is ap­
proximately the same temperature as it is in the cor­
ridors and in the classrooms?

A. Approximately, yes.
Q. Approximately. Now where are the restrooms 

located in the white high school?
A. They are located on the first floor in a fashion 

which is known as gang toilets or restrooms where 
all the facilities are together in one place.

Q. Yes. Now do those restrooms have shelter over 
them and are they enclosed?

A. They are.
Q. And they have practically the same heating 

facilities that the classrooms and hallways or corri­
dors have. That is true, isn’t it?

A. Yes.
Q. And only the negro school pupils are required 

to travel through an open corridor passing from one 
classroom to another. That is true, isn’t it?

A. Now do you mean—
Q. In the City of LaGrange?
A. Within the City of LaGrange?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, there is no negro school in the district 

now except LaGrange School?
A. Yes.
Q. That is what I understood you to say.

Mr. McGregor:
May it please the Court, if I might interrupt for a 

second. I have Mr. Page, the architect from Austin 
who designed this building that I wanted to make 
proof of just a few technical matters and to prove up



188

one periodical, and he has been here since yesterday 
morning. The case is taking a good deal longer than 
plaintiff apparently anticipated and as I seem to have 
anticipated, too.

I wonder if I could have leave of the Court to with­
draw Mr. Lemmons for a few minutes and put Mr. 
Page on out of order and let him return to Austin. He 
is quite a busy man and I hate to keep him here.

The Court:
I don’t have any objection. Do you have any?

Mr. Durham:
We have no objection, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
Call Mr. Page, please.

GEORGE MATTHEWS PAGE, was called as a wit­
ness on behalf of the defendant and, having been first 
duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Would you state your name, please?
A. George Matthews Page.
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Page?

The Court:
I did not get the name.



189

A. George Matthews Page.
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Page?
A. Austin, Texas.
Q. What is your present occupation?
A. Architect.
Q. How long have you been engaged in that line 

of endeavor?
A. Since I graduated from school, University of 

Texas, in 1937.
Q. Did you go to any schools following the Univer­

sity of Texas?
A. No, I didn’t. I went to Europe and studied, but 

not in school.
Q. Not in the United States. How long did you stay 

in Europe?
A. I was just traveling for about five months, four 

to five months.
Q. I see. Are you licensed to practice architecture 

in Texas?
A. I am.
Q. Anywhere else?
A. No.
Q- I see.
A. Other than—pardon me—other than what li­

censes the Texas license will cover. Now, I can’t an­
swer that.

Q- I see. Now you have a firm?
A. Yes.
Q. What is it known as, Mr. Page?
A. Page, Sutherland and Page.
Q- Was your firm employed by the LaGrange In­

dependent School District to do some architectural 
work for that district, in the district?

A. We were.



190

Q. Can you recall approximately about when you 
were first consulted in reference to that work?

A. I would say approximately, oh, in the vicinity of 
July of 1948.

Q. Sometime around July, 1948?
A. That is just guesswork, but I believe that is about 

right.
Q. As part of that work did you design the addition 

to and the completion of and certain repairs to the 
Randolph Negro School in that district?

A. We did the four classrooms and the gymnasium, 
cafeteria.

The Court:
Little louder, please, sir.

A. We did the four classrooms and the combina­
tion gymnasium—cafeteria and auditorium.

Q. Was that a job that was partially attached to 
an old structure?

A. It was.
Q. Do you know about when the old structure had 

been constructed?
A. I would guess—I had nothing to do with the old 

structure.
Q. Well, if you don’t know—
A. Prewar, but I don’t know the date.
Q. When you say “ prewar”  you mean the recent 

war?
A. I would say somewhere around, guessing, 1935.
Q. Well—
A. 1935, but I don’t know.
Q. Well now, this elevation that I show you here, 

is that the elevation that you prepared to indicate the 
completed building?



191

A. That is the elevation we prepared and prior to 
going into the final working drawing.

Q. I see. Now whenever I ask if it is what you 
prepared, of course, I mean you and your staff. You 
have other men—

A. I prepared that sketch myself.
Q. You actually prepared this one yourself. Now 

this school is of what construction, this portion that 
was added to the old structure?

A. It is hollow tile construction.
Q. Is it a sort of brick type?
A. It is a masonry construction.
Q. What is the floor in front here, this floor here 

and the floor in the rooms? I am not talking about the 
woodwork now.

A. The floor is a concrete slab and in the class­
rooms, there are four new classrooms there, there is 
asphalt tile on the concrete slab.

Q. And what is the substance in this structure 
here?

A. That is hollow tile again with a 6 foot concrete 
wall that runs around the building, that lower sec­
tion.

Q. This lower portion?
A. Yes.
Q. That is a 6 foot concrete wall?
A. I believe it is 6 foot and it continues around the 

structure there.
Q- And what is the material that the domelike 

portion of this structure is constructed from?
A. Those are quonset huts.
Q- What is the material?
A. I believe they are galvanized iron. I would have 

to check that.
Q- A metal of some sort like that?



192

A. Yes.
Q. Now what is the floor inside of the gymnasium 

constructed of?
A. The floor in the gymnasium is a concrete slab 

and the basket ball area is maple floor on screeds.
Q. Maple floor on screeds?
A. On top of the concrete.
Q. Is the maple used there commonly called hard­

wood?
A. Yes.
Q. I show you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 23 and I will ask 

you to describe to the Court, please, the nature of its 
construction, whether it is steel, concrete, what it is 
here, what these steps are here, what its type heater 
is and the lighting, and just tell the Court generally 
about it.

The Court:
That is the negro building, is it?

A. That is the gymnasium-cafeteria combination. 
As I said, there is a concrete retaining wall that goes 
around this entire structure and it is what I believe is 
called quonset A, three section quonset, and these are 
steel columns and steel beams supporting there. This 
is your maple floor and on the other side of the 
columns you have a concrete floor. This area here 
around the prosoenium of the stage is Y-joint yel­
low pine which has been painted, and then the ceiling 
here, we have, I think, I believe, four panels that are, 
oh, I would say 3 by 8 and it is a sort of lucite ma­
terial. It is to admit lighting into the structure in the 
center of the area. It is a product that I believe has 
recently been taken in by the people that handle 
quonset huts and developed for that purpose.



193

Q, Now I don’t believe you described the heating 
unit,

A. The heating units are space heaters. I believe 
there are six of them. I have forgotten the exact 
make. They are space heaters with fans. Your air is 
heated and blown over a coil system and blown out 
and put in circulation by a fan.

Q. When it is not being used for heating can it 
be used for any other purpose?

A. You turn your fans on and, of course, you get 
ventilation.

Q. Now I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 24 and 
ask you if that is the other side of what you have just 
been describing?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this apparent construction here on that side 

of the gymnasium, what is that?
A. That is V-joint yellow pine, frame wall, stud 

wall and it has been painted. Behind that area is the 
kitchen.

Q. Did you describe what those beams are to the 
Court?

A. Steel I beams.
Q. That type building, in your experience and 

learning as an architect, what would be the reason­
able useful life of that type of building constructed out 
of the material and in the form it is there constructed 
from?

A. I would say with proper maintenance that it 
would be somewhere between 40 and 50 years, prop­
erly maintained.

Q- I see.
A. That is a guess on that. I think it would, though.
Q. Now I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 28 and 

ask you what that is?



194

A. That is the kitchen area.
Q. And how are those walls finished up?
A. These walls are, as I recall, we used a white 

rez.
Q. I don’t mean the painted covering.
A. Oh, they are Y-joint yellow pine. I believe they 

are knotted. I am not positive of that.
Q. What is this substance used to ceil the ceiling?
A. That is fibreboard.
Q. Why did you use that fibreboard in the ceiling?
A. Well, it is a material that is economical and as­

sembles easily and makes about, I would say, a ceil­
ing roughly comparable to sheetrock.

Q. I see. Now what is this over on the right hand 
side of the picture?

A. It is a counter and sink.
Q. I see.
A. Kitchen counter and sink.
Q. Now I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 22, which 

has been shown here in evidence to be a gymnasium, 
and I see here some sort of apparatus in the center 
corner there. What is that?

A. That is a form of space heater.
Q. Is that substantially equal to the type heater 

that is in the gymnasium at the negro school?
A. I would say it was, judging from the picture. I 

don’t recall the make or size or anything, but it is 
apparently the same type of thing.

Q. And does it use the same system to distribute 
heat?

A. It is a fan system, I would say, distributing the hot 
air.

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 32 and ask you if 
you recognize that?

A. Yes, sir. That is one of the new classrooms in the 
Randolph School.



195

Q. And this apparently is the back wall of that room, 
is it, Mr. Page?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what is this mechanical looking object there?
A. It is a space heater, space unit.
Q. I will ask you if that is a recent development, 

that type of heater? I mean by recent, 10 or 15 years.
A. I would say so. I don’t know the date it became ef­

fective.
Q. I will ask you if it is recent in its utilization in the 

schools in the various parts of the state?
A. I would say 15 or 20 years, if that is recent.
Q. Do you find it in your work in designing schools and 

experience of remodeling schools, a wide use of it amongst 
the various schools?

A. Yes, I think you find quite a number of them use 
them over the United States.

Q. Have you ever been in a school in the City of 
Houston where they are used?

A. Yes, I was in one this morning, in Bellaire, but I 
could not go into the classroom. They were conducting 
classes but I did notice apparently the same type of thing, 
a unit heater.

Q. Now those walls here in this building, does that 
have something on it or is that a masonry wall?

A. That is a cross partition and a frame partition.
Q. Is the other side of it, if a classroom is on the other 

side, is that wood all the way through or is there masonry 
in between?

A. No, there is wood on the other side. There is stud 
m between and wood on the one side and wood on the 
other side if there is a classroom on the other side.

Q- And if it is the end of the corridor it would be a 
masonry wall?

A. I believe it is masonry at the corridor ends.



196

Q. These walls, are they masonry?
A. Hollow tile.
Q. Any wood in there at all?
A. Not at all, except the window frames.
Q. And then the walls across the room, are they 

masory walls?
A. Masonry walls.
Q. Any wood in them?
A. Not any wood.
Q. I hand you Plaintiffs Exhibit 31 and ask you if 

that is the front of that or a similar room in the same 
school?

A. I would presume so. Yes, I would say it must be.
Q. Well, if you don’t want to say that it is the same-
A. Certainly a similar room.
Q. Is that one of the rooms in that school?
A. I would say it was.
Q. Your statement then in reference to that partition is 

just the same as to the other end of it depending on whe­
ther or not there is a classroom there?

A. That is right.
Q. Now these are wood casements or are they steel?
A. No, those are wood, double hung windows.
Q. And when you say “double hung” that means you 

can have ventilation from the top and the bottom?
A. Yes, both sections operate.
Q. A portion of this work here, according to that pic­

ture, there is a convector shape to be put there which has 
not been procured yet?

A. It is my understanding they intended to get a light 
baffle, if that is what you mean.

Mr. Durham:
Plaintiff asks that portion of the answer be excluded, 

that it is his understanding they expect to put it there, as 
having no probative force.



197

The Court:
I understand he is testifying that according to the plans 

it will be there.

A. Our plans did not include a baffle but it was under­
stood they planned to put a baffle in there.

Q. Now the floor there in that room is of what sub­
stance?

A. The floor is a concrete slab with asphalt tile.

(A photograph was marked as “Defendants’ Exhibit 3.” )

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 3 and ask you to 
examine it, please.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we object to any testimony with reference 

to the exhibit until it is shown what it is, if this 
witness knows what it is.

The Court:
He just handed it to him, I guess. We all saw it at noon. 

I know what it is.

Mr. Durham:
It is a defendants’ exhibit, Your Honor. I don’t under­

stand.

The Court:
Exhibit 3. It is the one that you did not offer and 

he offered and gave it another exhibit number.

Mr. McGregor:
No, Your Honor is mistaken, if the Court please. It is one 

that Mr. Durham had not seen before.



198

The Court:
Oh. Well, go ahead and identify it.

Q. I will ask you if this object in Defendants’ Exhibit 
3 in the center of the picture is an illustration of what 
you call a baffle?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
I now introduce that.

A. A light baffle.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce that now for illustrative purposes only.

(“Defendants’ Exhibit 3” was received in evidence.)

Q. Now in the diffusion of or the utilization of light in 
rooms does this type of baffle have any particular ad­
vantage, taking into consideration the type windows shown 
in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 3?

A. It is our opinion that it does have an advantage.
Q. Would you tell the Court what that advantage is?
A. The light baffle is a thing developed, I believe, by 

Dr. D. B. Harmon. The idea of the thing is to throw light 
to the ceiling and diffuse it and get your brightness ratio. 
In other words, your light to dark areas as close together as 
possible. In other words, a uniform lighting, as near as a 
uniform lighting in a classroom as possible and it also is 
aimed at throwing the light to the far side, the inside 
wall of the classroom.

Q. May the windows be utilized, the upper portion of 
the windows utilized when you have a baffle?

A. I can see no reason why they cannot.



199

Q. Ventilation then may still be obtained from the 
upper section?

A. I would say so.
Q. Now, Mr. Page, this building is constructed here 

with a passageway through here where the two figures 
are shown, a small figure and a large figure. A passage­
way through here and then down all the way there 
where you go into this gymnasium behind these classrooms 
and is what I believe the architects call an open corridor. 
Have I used the correct expression?

A. One of several correct ones, yes, sir.
Q. One of several. And inside what is part of the old 

building there is a similar open corridor which goes all 
the way back of this ell and over on this side there is 
another corridor that goes all the way back to the end of 
that ell. Is that correct?

A. Yes.
Q. You took those into consideration, those various 

corridors, when you were designing this addition?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now I will ask you, Mr. Page, if the open corridor 

type of school construction is an accepted form of archi­
tectural design and construction of schools in the south­
west?

A. They have built schools in the southwest with open 
corridors.

Q- Is it the practice presently and are there many of 
them in this area under construction with the open type 
corridor?

A. I would say that there are probably a fair number 
with an open type corridor although I just know of a few. 
I understand Seguin is using an open corridor on their new 
schools. I haven’t seen the plans but that is what it would 
have to be, and a school here in Houston, this one I men­
tioned, has an open corridor. And I understand that they



200

have several other schools. An architect told me that he 
thought there were two or three more.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we want to object to all this hearsay testi­

mony.

Mr. McGregor:
I have asked the question on the basis of, isn’t it well 

known in architecture that in Texas open type schools are 
being constructed.

The Court:
I rather think he is talking about a matter that is 

important in the case. Objection overruled.

Q. Go ahead, Mr. Page.
A. The open corridor really started with California and 

there are many schools of thought as to whether it is the 
best or not the best. There are many architects who feel 
that it is the answer, and there are others who feel that 
it is not. But there are schools in Texas with open corri­
dors designed deliberately that way.

The Court:
What are the advantages or disadvantages of the open 

corridors?

A. Well, sir, one of the advantages is the results from 
what I understand is the present curricula, and that is 
contrary to what it used to be, perhaps in my time. Child­
ren don’t change classes. For example, I went from geo­
graphy in one room to arithmetic in a different room. Now 
they do not move in an elementary school like they used 
to so therefore many architects contend that since the child



201

is going to be in the classroom most of the day that there 
is not a great disadvantage in having them go outside, 
say, to go to lunch or even to go home you must get out­
side.

Now, another big advantage of it is that it opens the door 
for what is called bilateral lighting in many cases. That is 
the case of windows perhaps from this side of the room 
and high windows above that cornice over there which 
lights that room, and there are many experts who think 
bilateral lighting is not good, and the disadvantage of an 
open corridor system is in that the child must go out in 
the weather and some people feel that it is not worth that.

Now add to that, too, the economics and this, once again, 
could vary with various bids. We feel that with an open 
corridor system you will end up costing more money than 
classrooms on each side of the closed corridor because in 
both cases you have to have your walls on each side of 
your classrooms, but where you have an inside corridor the 
corridor wall does not have to be as weatherproof. In other 
words, it can be of a fairly light construction, such as that 
wall right there, whereas this wall here is much heavier. 
Well, you use the same amount of walls but one can be 
lighter. Then, too, you are bound to add a great deal of 
corridor space.

Now there is a considerable argument about that, but it 
is our feeling that it is—the problem is that it would cost 
a little more money to build a single open corridor parti­
cularly if you do it in the construction.

Q. Are you all through?
A. Yes.
Q. Now this corridor here that I pointed out a moment 

ago where the small figure and the large figure seem to be



202

coming out, that corridor meets the open corridor going 
towards the gymnasium, does it not?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And affords access to the gymnasium there as well 

as on this side of the elevation?
A. Yes, there is a door to the gym on the other side.
Q. Now in the gymnasium, at the back—well, I be­

lieve that has been testified to. I won’t go into that. Now, 
Mr. Page, are you acquainted with the Architectural 
Forum magazine of building?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you to tell the Court, please, the position 

of this periodical in the architectural world as to re­
liability, disclosure of advancement in architecture and the 
development and construction of buildings as reflected by 
the periodical?

A. I think the Architectural Forum is almost com­
pletely conceded to be one of the three leading publica­
tions on architecture in the United States, the other two 
being Progressive Architecture and Architectural Record.

Mr. McGregor:
Would counsel like to examine the editorial—I mean, the 

statement page. Would you like to see the statement page, 
Your Honor?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we would like to have it marked so we 

can make our objections intelligently.

The Court:
Mark it as an exhibit and offer it, and I will hear the 

objection.



203

(The periodical Architectural Forum was marked as 
“Defendants’ Exhibit 4.” )

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 4—

Mr. Durham:
We object to the introduction of Defendants’ Exhibit 

No. 4 for the reason that on its face it is shown to be 
a printed periodical. The authenticity of the thing has not 
been shown. The witness has not been shown to have had 
anything to do with the composition of it. It has not 
been under his control or authority and is not by any act 
or effort on his part. The same is purely hearsay and it is a 
written periodical.

The Court:
Of course, he has not offered it yet, as I understand. 

If he wants to question the witness about it with a view 
to offering it later—is that what you intend to do?

Mr. McGregor:
That is correct.

The Court:
I will let him question the witness about it.

Q. I ask you to turn to page 103 of Defendants’ Exhibit 
4 and ask you to examine that page and tell the Court 
what is reflected in the drawings on that page.

The Court:
I don’t think you can offer it that way, Counsel. You 

will have to get him to identify it and then offer it in evi­
dence.



204

Q. I hand you herewith Defendants’ Exhibit 4 and ask 
you what the cover of that reflects it to be?

A. It is an issue devoted primarily to schools.
Q. What is the issue involved? What is the name of 

the periodical?
A. Architectural Forum.
Q. Is that the periodical you referred to a while ago 

as an established periodical in the architectural field?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you advise us where it is published?
A. It is published by Time, Incorporated, and has 

offices in New York, and I presume other spots. I will have 
to read it and see. It is published by Time, Incorporated.

Q. All right. Turn back to page 103. Now I will ask 
you to tell the Court what appears on page 103 in the—

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we object to the witness testifying as to 

the contends of the instrument that is not in evidence.

The Court:
Objection sustained. That is what I ruled a while ago, 

Counsel. If you want to offer it, you may do so, and I will 
rule on it.

Mr. McGregor:
All right, sir. I offer the periodical at this time.

Mr. Durham:
We make the same objection.

The Court:
Knowing that it had not been offered I did not charge 

my mind with your objection. Would you mind restating 
it.



205

Mr. Durham:
The plaintiff objected to the introduction of Defendants’ 

Exhibit No. 4, first, on the ground that it is purported 
to be a periodical in printed form. It is not certified 
to by the purported authorities or authors or publishers; 
that the witness is not shown to have had anything to do 
with the composition of it and the authenticity of the 
printed article is not known. That it is purely hearsay.

The Court:
What have you to say about that objection, Counsel? 

Mr. McGregor:
Well, Your Honor, I have no proof of authenticity.

The Court:
Let me see the particular thing you are offering. That 

is on page 103?

Mr. McGregor:
That is right, those designs there.

The Court:
I think this statement here could be purely hearsay and 

ex parte. I think the objection is good.

Mr. McGregor:
Very well, Your Honor, we will withdraw our offer.

Q- Now, Mr. Page, did you, at the same time that you 
constructed the Randolph School at LaGrange, design and 
construct a grammar school on another piece of ground?

A. We did.
Q- What type construction was that, Mr. Page?
A. Construction of the Hermes School is a concrete 

slab, the exterior walls are brick, what we call a cavity



206

construction. In other words, with an air space between. 
The roof is wood frame. The interior partitions, in other 
words, the corridor partitions, are wood frame partitions. 
The lateral partitions are also wood frame. In other words, 
the partitions across the back or front of the classrooms 
are wood stud with Y-joint pine and sheetrock.

Q. This roof on the Randolph School, is it a built up 
roof, too, just like the Hermes School?

A. They are both wood frame roofs, built up roofs.
Q. Now I hand you Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 29 and ask 

you what that represents?
A. It is a classroom at Hermes School.
Q. And this wall to the right of the picture there, what 

is the bottom portion under the windows?
A. It is a brick cavity wall.
Q. Is there wood in the cavity on that wall?
A. No.
Q. There is not. And what is this structure here at 

the top?
A. Those are directional glass blocks.
Q. And light can come through those blocks?
A. That is what they are there for.
Q. The window area, so far as ventilation is concerned 

in the summertime in the Hermes School, is greater or less 
than—

A. It is less than at this school, the window ventilation.
Q. In other words, it is greater in the Randolph School?
A. The window ventilation is greater in the Randolph.
Q. Where those glass bricks are used in that particular 

type of construction diffusers of light are not needed, are 
they?

A. They are not.
Q. But there is no way to use that space for ventilation 

once the glass brick is installed?
A. There is not.



207

Q. Have you been in one of these rooms since the Her­
mes School was finished and the desks put in?

A. I have.
Q. Do you know where they hang their coats in those 

rooms?
A. Yes. They hang them in that recess behind the 

board in that room, and in some cases it will be in front 
of the room, behind the blackboard.

Q. In both of these schools then the pupils hang their 
coats in the individual rooms, that is, so far as Hermes 
School is concerned and in the Randolph School?

A. They both hang their clothes in the classrooms.
Q. In the construction of schools, what is the trend 

in reference to the construction of schools and utilizing 
lockers for the hanging of coats and clothes while the 
children are at school?

A. Lockers prevail still in high school construction, but 
very, very few elementary schools, that I know of, of new 
design, are using steel lockers.

Q- I see. Now I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 8 and 
I will ask you if you recognize that?

A. That is the corridor of Hermes School.
Q. Now can you identify which one of those walls is 

the interior wall of the classrooms?
A. Both are.
Q- Both are. In other words, there is a classroom on 

each side of those corridor walls?
A. That is right.
Q- What are those walls constructed of?
A. These are wood stud walls here with solid sheeting 

on corridor side, solid sheeting and transite. On the 
interior there is V-joint pine.

Q. This picture, Plaintiff’s Exhibit 27, is that in the 
Hermes School?

A. This is the cafeteria.



208

Q. And that is part of the new Hermes School building, 
isn’t it?

A. That is right.
Q. What kind of heating unit do you see in that pic­

ture?
A. Space heaters.
Q. Is that the same kind of heater that is in the Ran­

dolph School?
A. The same idea, fan and heating coils.
Q. In other words, you don’t know whether it is the 

same brand or not?
A. Well now, I think on this, we used a boiler and used 

hot water instead of gas fired heating.
Q. But it is the same type of space heater?
A. That is right.
Q. Now you have two types of heating units then in the 

Hermes School?
A. Yes. You mean the classrooms, are they heated this 

way?
Q. Yes.
A. No. The classrooms in Hermes are not heated that 

way.
Q. They have a different type of heating system? 
A. They have a forced air heating system.

The Court:
We will take a recess of ten minutes.
(Short recess.)

The Court:
Be seated.
You may proceed.

Mr. McGregor:
You may take the witness.



Cross Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Page, the open corridors are now in the ex­

perimental stage, aren’t they?
A. I would say that is correct.
Q. They were first started in schools in a section of 

the United States where the climate was even almost all 
the year round. That is true, isn’t it?

A. They were first started in California.
Q. Yes. Now, in a section where you have extreme cold 

weather as in Texas, ice and snow, those open corridors 
could present a dangerous situation from snow and ice 
blowing in, couldn’t they?

A. I don’t agree with you on that for this reason: I 
think it can conceivably present a hygiene problem, but 
I don’t believe it presents a dangerous problem.

Q. Thank you. If wind is blowing, snow would blow 
in those corridors, that is true?

A. That is true if it is snowing.
Q. If that snow remained there overnight and it was 

frozen and the children were compelled to pass over it, in 
your opinion would it, as an expert, present a dangerous 
situation?

A. It could, yes.

The Court:
Which side of the building in this Randolph School is 

the corridor on?

A. I will have to get somebody to straighten me. You
m'ght ask Mr. Lemmons. I have forgotten my directions 
there.

The Court:
^ efl, you can ask somebody else.



210

The Witness:
(Addressing Mr. Lemmons) Charlie, what side does the 

new corridor face?

Mr. Lemmons:
Faces east and west.

A. The corridor is on the east side of the classroom. 

Mr. Lemmons:
It is on the northwest side of the new classroom.

A. On the northwest side.
Q. Now, the opening in the corridors is in what direc­

tion. North, south, east or west?
A. He stated, I believe, that the corridor is on the 

northwest side of the building.
Q. And the openings will be to the north and south? 
A. They will be to the north and south, yes, sir.

Mr. Durham:
Would you let me see that exhibit, it was No. 4, I believe, 

that I had not seen.

Mr. McGregor:
No. 3.

Mr. Durham:
I thought you said 4.

Mr. Ramey:
It was Defendants’ Exhibit 3.

Mr. Durham:
Defendants’ 3. Thank you.



211

Q. I hand you here that which has been introduced as 
Defendants’ Exhibit No. 3. Now I believe you stated that 
the objects you see above these windows is a light 
baffle?

A. That is right.
Q. That is for diffusing light?
A. Yes.
Q. Now this object you see there must be lowered or 

raised in an effort to adjust diffused light, is that correct?
A. That is right.
Q. Now was that type of baffle put in the negro school, 

the Randolph School over at LaGrange?
A. You mean in the old part or the new part?
Q. In the new part?
A. As I told you, it was—I understood that they in­

tended to put them in. We normally, you see, don’t put 
those in because they can be built on the job so much bet­
ter than you can buy these metal frames.

Q. And as an economical proposition you used those?
A. I don’t believe I understand that.
Q. I thought you said you could buy them cheaper?
A. I said you could make them cheaper than you could 

buy the aluminum frames.
Q. Thank you. Now, Mr. Page, I believe you acted as 

the architect for both the Randolph and the Hermes 
Schools?

A. That is right.
Q. And you drew the plans and specifications, did you, 

Mr. Page, as an architect?
A. For the four classrooms and the gymnasium, yes.
Q' y°u advised with the school officials in the
aGrange Independent School District with reference to
e construction of those buildings?
A- I did.

Q- With reference to the type of material?
A. I did.



212

Q. Now you continued in that capacity until the work 
had been completed?

A. Right.
Q. And I believe that work was completed about Sep­

tember 1, 1949?
A. I believe so.
Q. And you still have the blueprints and specifications 

for each of the buildings?
A. That is right.
Q. I believe that is the property of the architect?
A. That is right.
Q. Now, I believe you stated, in response to a ques­

tion from Mr. McGregor, that it was not customary now 
to put locker rooms in an elementary school?

A. I didn’t say that.
Q. Oh. Well, I understood you.
A. I said that it is not common practice to use metal, 

steel metal lockers in an elementary school.
Q. Now did they use steel metal lockers in the Hermes 

School?
A. We did not.
Q. What did you use?
A. We used an area, a recess occurring between the 

teacher’s closet and the toilets and we put the blackboard, 
if that came at the front of the room, the blackboard was 
placed in front of it, and if it was in the back, it was 
cardboard.

Q. Was that in each classroom?
A. In each classroom.
Q. Now did you put any lockers in the gym at the 

new school?
A. I don’t believe we put lockers in there.
Q. From your experience as an architect in the de­

signing and construction of school buildings, do you be­
lieve that is an asset to a school to have a locker placed



213

in a classroom as you have indicated they were placed in 
the elementary school?

Mr. McGregor:
I think there is a faulty premise in that question. He 

has stated there were no lockers in the classroom.

The Court:
Read the question.

(Question read.)

A. Which elementary school?
Q. I don’t want to misguide you. I understood you to 

say that in the white high school you placed the lockers 
behind the blackboard?

A. We placed the cloakroom areas.
Q. That is what I mean.
A. That is different. Lockers, I am thinking of steel 

lockers.
Q. Thank you.

The Court:
That is a place where they hang them on the side of 

the wall on hooks?

A- Yes, sir, with a shelf above it.
Q- Now did you put any cloakrooms in the negro 

school?
A. We used the rear wall for coats and a shelf.
Q- Now will you answer my question, please, sir. Did 

y°u put any cloakrooms there the same as you did in the 
white school?



214

Mr. McGregor:
I think counsel again interjects in the premise a state­

ment that the witness has not made, that there were cloak­
rooms put anywhere.

The Court:
I do not understand that they were cloakrooms. I under­

stand it was a place behind the blackboard where they 
put their clothes up.

Mr. Durman:
Thank you, Your Honor. I was misled.

The Court:
Yes.

Q. Now, the four rooms in the addition you made to 
the negro school were to be used, I believe you testified, 
for high school work. Is that right?

A. I did not say. I had no idea what they would be 
used for.

Q. Well, were any steel lockers put in those four rooms 
that you put in the negro school?

A. No.
Q. No lockers at all?
A. No lockers, no steel lockers.
Q. Now I will show you what has been introduced as 

Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 30. I believe there is a recess in 
back of the blackboard in the white school?

A. That is right.
Q. I will ask you to examine the room you built in the 

negro school?
A. That is right.
Q. Is there any recess there?
A. There is no recess there.



215

Q. No recess?
A. Because there are no toilets in there to give you that 

otherwise lost space.
Q. Were there toilets placed in each classroom in the 

white school?
A. Placed between each two classrooms.
Q. Were any toilets placed between the classrooms in 

the negro school?
A. They were not.
Q. Where were the toilets placed?
A. The toilets were—the present toilets were at the 

ends of these wings there.
Q. Then in the negro school in order for a child to reach 

the toilet or the restroom he had to leave the classroom and 
go to the back of the building?

A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. Now you had nothing to do with the 

construction of that white high school?
A. White high school?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Thank you. Now what kind of windows did you put 

in the negro school?
A. Projected, steel projected.
Q. That is the window similar to that window shown in 

Defendants’ Exhibit No. 3?
A. No, that is not the same window. That is a wood, 

double hung window.
Q. Oh, pardon me.
A. That is a wood double hung window also. Did you 

ask me about Hermes?
Q. No, in the colored school?
A. In Randolph all the windows are wood double hung 

windows.



216

Q, Thank you. What type of windows did you put in 
the Hermes School?

A. Commercial projected.
Q. Is there any difference in the cost of those windows?
A. Due to the difference in size I don’t believe I can 

answer that. It is quite possible they might be very close 
to the same cost because one is considerably smaller than 
the other.

Q. Now did you put glass brick in the Hermes School?
A. We did not.
Q. There was no glass brick put in the white elemen­

tary school?
A. There is directional glass blocks in the white 

elementary school.
Q. That is what I am talking about. Isn’t that the 

Hermes School?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. Now, for what purpose were those glass bricks put 

in there?
A. They are put in there for what we call natural day­

lighting. They are directional blocks and they throw 
the light and diffuse to the ceiling, and it is a form of light­
ing developed by Dr. Harmon whom I previously men­
tioned, which a great many of us feel is a very good form 
of lighting.

Q. Now in the fusion of light through glass brick there 
is no adjustment of the brick. They are stationary and 
the light is diffused in the same manner at all times. 
That is true, isn’t it?

A. I believe that is true.
Q. That is the theory that is accepted?
A. That is right, where it breaks the same each time. 

It depends on the angle from which the light strikes.
Q. So long as the light strikes it from the same angle 

the fusion of light is the same?



217

A. Yes.
Q. And the members of your profession agree, I be­

lieve, that possibly that is the best lighting system and 
the best fusion of lighting at this time. That is accepted?

A. That is right. Some of us feel that way.
Q. I believe, Mr. Page, the majority of the architectural 

authorities now agree on that theory of fusion of light, 
don’t they?

A. I wouldn’t think it is the majority. There is a great 
deal of wrangling between the bilateral system which I 
mentioned, bilateral and trilateral, against this Harmon 
system of lighting. California leans very heavily towards 
the other system.

Q. But I believe you testified you were inclined to 
lean—

A. I like the Harmon system.
Q. Then is it your opinion as an architect and an ex­

pert that the lighting system in the Hermes School is 
superior to the lighting system in the Randolph School 
with this glass brick? ,

A. The natural daylighting. The natural daylighting. 
There is a difference there. The natural daylighting of 
Hermes, I feel is superior to Randolph.

Q. And in your opinion is that advantageous to stu­
dents studying in school?

A. That is right.
Q. Thank you. I believe you stated with reference to the 

open corridor that the accepted theory was that the reason 
that the open corridor was of the better type by that 
school of thought which agrees on that proposition was 
that you had windows on the inside of the corridor and 
on the outside?

A. I said that is one of the reasons.
Q. That is one?
A. Just one.



218

Q. That is one. And I believe that is the theory upon 
which the majority of the architects and those people in 
your field, chosen field, accept the open corridor as pre­
senting the best fusion of light. Now were there any 
windows on the inside of this open corridor in the 
Randolph School?

A. There are not, and the building, present building, 
you see, would have formed a block against that.

Q. The truth of the situation is that this open corridor 
was built up against another old building, wasn’t it?

A. That is right. It was joined to the present—the then 
present structure.

Mr. Durham:
We pass the witness, Your Honor.

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. In answering the questions a while ago in reference 

to the lighting of those rooms did you, in all your answers 
in reference to those questions, have to do with day­
lighting?

A. We were speaking of glass blocks and I pointed out 
that I was speaking of natural daylighting.

Q. Both the Hermes and this Randolph school are 
suitably lighted for night use, are they not?

A. I believe, I am not quite certain, but I believe you 
will find them identical.

Q. I see. Now, the diffusion system that you stated 
was different from the glass brick, does that involve the 
fractionation of light by the type of shield that is shown 
in Defendants’ Exhibit 3?

A. Would you please state that question again.
Q. Well, you called it the diffusion of light a while 

ago?



219

A. Yes,
Q. Or fractionation of light. I am not quite sure. Is 

that other theory involved in the use of that light shield 
which you have there?

A. Yes, sir, that is right. It is to throw light.
Q. And one school is upholding that system and an­

other is talking about use of glass brick, isn’t it, in lay 
language?

A. No, not quite. That is used in many cases, but I be­
lieve that the same man developed both theories.

Q. In other words, it can be used—
A. Dr. Harmon, I believe, is responsible for the light 

baffle, and I believe he is responsible for what we call 
the Harmon directional glass block lighting.

Q. In any event, laying aside the discussion of the 
distribution of light by the glass block and by this frac­
tionation system, are these rooms in both the Randolph 
School and the old white high school and the Hermes 
School equally well lighted regardless of the glass 
brick and the fractionation implementation?

Mr. Durham:
We object to that question. It calls for a conclusion and 

opinion of the witness. He has joined the lighting in the 
old high school. The witness has testified he had nothing 
to do with the construction of that.

The Court:
Read the question.

(Question read.)

The Court:
Objection overruled. He may answer if he knows.



220

Q. From daylight?
A. From daylight? Well, it would certainly be my 

opinion that the daylighting of Hermes, not of the high 
school, of Hermes, would be somewhat superior to the 
other two. Of the high school, I have seen it, of course, 
I would say, both with light baffles, the two would be 
comparable.

In fact, I would say the colored school has more 
windows, I believe in some cases, then some of the class­
rooms in the white school although, as I say, I am not 
entirely familiar with the high school. I have been through 
it.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all.

Re-Cross Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q1. Now Mr. Page, I believe you stated that it is your 

opinion that the Hermes School, elementary white, is sup­
erior as far as the lighting system is concerned than the 
negro school which you designed?

A. The daylighting.
Q. Yes, I am talking about that. Well, is it your ex­

perience that the children go to school in the daytime?
A. Well, certainly, but you referred to lighting in the 

school when very often the lighting of the school is re­
ferred to as the electrical outlet. When we refer to the 
glass blocks—it is probably a nomenclature—you state 
“daylighting” so there may be some differentiation. I think 
that the Hermes is superior.

Q. All right. Now you advised with the Herne School 
Board with reference to your opinion as to the superiority



221

of the system of lighting as put in the elementary school, 
didn’t you?

A. Yes.

Mr. McGregor:
I move that the question and answer be stricken. I don’t 

know what Herne has to do with this case.

Mr. Durham:
Pardon me. I mean the Hermes School. I will get the 

record straight.

Q. Mr. Page, you did advise with the school officials of 
the LaGrange School District with reference to your opin­
ion as to the superiority of the lighting system placed in 
the Hermes School, is that right?

A. That is partially correct. I did tell them we con­
sidered that the best form of lighting. I don’t recall that 
there was any comparison set up. Certainly not that I 
recall.

Mr. Durham:
That is all. We are through.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Mr. McGregor:
Just a second. Would Your Honor wait just a second, 

please. That is all, Your Honor.

The Court:
Stand aside.



222

Mr. McGregor:
Now as I asked this witness to come in out of order, map 

I ask that he be excused so that he can return to 
Austin?

The Court:
You may be excused, Mr. Page. Call Mr. Lemmons 

back.

C. A. LEMMONS, was recalled and testified as follows: 

Direct Examination (Continued).

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, will you please take in your hand 

the annual—the superintendent’s annual report for the 
LaGrange Independent School District for the school year 
1947-1948?

A. Yes.
Q. And also for 1948-1949?
A. I have it.

Mr. Durham:
I want to mark them for identification, please.

(The documents were marked as “Defendants’ Exhibits 
37 and 38,” respectively.)

Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, you were requested in a sub­
poena duces tecum to bring with you the original letter 
and a petition filed by the plaintiff’s attorney dated De­
cember 5, 1947. Did you bring them with you?

A. I did.
Q. Would you let me see that, please?
A. It is in that box over there. May I get it?



The Court: 
Yes, sir.

223

(The document was marked as “Defendants’ Exhibit 
39.” )

Q. Mr. Lemmons, you hold in your hand the annual re­
port, a copy of which is filed with the State Superinten­
dent, for the school year 1947-1948 and marked as 
Plaintiff’s Exhibit 38.

A. Just a minute. What year was that?
Q. 1947-1948.
A. That is Exhibit 37.
Q. Was that instrument prepared by you or under your 

supervision and direction?
A. It was prepared under my supervision and direction.
Q. And as part of the permanent school records of the 

LaGrange Independent School District?
A. Yes.
Q- And the entries made in there reflected the correct 

listing of property owned by the LaGrange Independent 
School District?

A. In so far as the records which were available, yes.
Q. In so far as the records—and the collection and 

expenditures of money, disbursements, for school pur­
poses?

A. This report does not cover the disbursements. This 
report mainly has to do with child distribution throughout 
the system and it also carries a table of evaluations of 
school property on page 11.

Q. Now I will ask you to turn to—

Mr. Durham:
We offer in evidence, Your Honor, Exhibit No. 37. It is 

for the school year 1947-1948.



224

Mr. McGregor:
It is the one you prepared, Mr. Lemmons?

A. It was prepared under my direction, yes.

Mr. McGregor:
I have no objection.

Mr. Durham:
To save time we also offer 1947-1948, which is Ex­

hibit 37.

The Court:
You have just offered that one.

Mr. Durham:
I am sorry. I want to offer Exhibit No. 38, which 

is the superintendent’s annual report for the school 
year 1948-1949.

The Court:
That makes two that you are putting in, 37 and 

38?

Mr. Durham:
Yes, sir. I offer them in evidence.

Mr. McGregor:
Counsel, I have not seen the Exhibit 38.

Mr. Durham:
I did not know. I thought you had seen it.

Mr. McGregor:
May I ask the witness a question, please, sir?



The Court: 
Yes, sir.

225

(By Mr. McGregor):
Q. This Exhibit 38, is that signed by you?
A. No.
Q. Is Exhibit No. 37 signed by you?
A. I don’t believe that is my signature on that.

Mr. McGregor:
Are you offering a copy that you are producing?

Mr. Durham:
I am offering the one that he says was prepared under 

his supervision.

Mr. McGregor:
I have no objection to it.

Mr. Durham:
I want to offer the one Mr. Lemmons had.

A. This is the one right here and it has my signature 
on it.

Mr. McGregor:
No objection to that.

(“Plaintiff’s Exhibit 37 and 38” were received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Now both Exhibits 37 and 38 were prepared by you 
or under your direction?

A. Yes.
Q'. And those exhibits are part of the permanent school 

records of LaGrange Independent School District?



226

A. They are.
Q. And they accurately, as far as your records are 

concerned, reflect the daily average attendance of both 
negro and white students?

A. They do.
Q. And they also reflect the correct number or the 

total number of scholastic enrollments?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, to turn to page 

11 in Exhibit No. 37. Will you tell the Court what the 
total scholastic enrollment was for the scholl year 1947- 
1948 of white students in the LaGrange Independent School 
District?

A. Are you referring to table 19?
Q. Table 19, information about—
A. That information is about scholastics, and that re­

fers to the scholastic population of the district.
Q. That is right. The scholastic population of the 

district.
A. The scholastic of the LaGrange District for white 

was 1,073.
Q. What was the scholastic population of negroes for 

the same time?
A. 524.
Q. Now I will ask you to turn to the top of page 11 

on the same exhibit, No. 37. Will you tell the Court what 
the value of the buildings for elementary schools for 
white children was in the LaGrange Independent School 
District for the school year 1947-1948?

A. $10,000.00.
Q. What was the value of the school buildings for 

negroes for the same year?
A. $1,000.00.
Q. Will you tell the Court what the value of the build­

ings for school purposes owned by the LaGrange Indepen­



227

dent School District and furnished for white children was 
for the same period of time?

A. You mean the total value?
Q- No, the buildings alone. For Senior High School? 
A. For Senior High School, $175,000.00.
Q. And what was the value of the property furnished 

negro children for a Senior High School for the same year? 
A. $20,000.00.
Q. Now, for school sites and playgrounds for the same 

period of time, that is, the school year 1947-1948, what 
was the value for the school sites for elementary schools 
for white?

Mr. McGregor:
I am going to object to all this line of questioning. The 

dollar and cents value are not of issue in this case. The 
question is whether the facilities supplied are substantially 
equal to those that are supplied to the white children in 
the district.

The Court:
I think the dollars and cents value may throw some light 

on it, Counsel. Objection overruled.

Mr. McGregor:
Very well. Note our exception.

Q. What was the value, please?
A. Would you restate your question?
Q. What was the value of money invested in school 

sites and playgrounds for elementary schools for whites? 
A. $1,000.00.
Q. What was the amount invested for negro children? 
A. There is no figure entered there because that was 

a combination high school and elementary school.



228

Q. All right. Now, what amount of money was invested 
as of the year 1947-1948, school year, for school sites 
for senior high schools for white?

A. $10,000.00.
Q. And for negroes for the same period of time?
A. $2,000.00.
Q. Now, for school furniture and desks for white child­

ren during the same period of time, how much money was 
invested as of the year 1947-1948?

A. Are you referring to the elementary?
Q. Elementary school?
A. $500.00.
Q. What for negro?
A. There is nothing entered there.
Q. Now in the high school for white during the same 

period of time, how much money was invested?
A. $5,000.00.
Q. How much for negroes during the same period of 

time?
A. $2,000.00.
Q. Now, for a teacher’s home for high school teachers 

for whites, how much money was invested as of the year 
1947-1948?

A. $5,000.00.
Q. How much for negroes?
A. None.
Q. For equipment for teaching laboratory courses at 

the elementary school for whites, how much was invested 
as of 1947-1948 school year?

A. $100.00.
Q. How much for negro?
A. $50.00.
Q. Now in the high school how much was invested for 

the same period of time and for the same purpose?
A. The figure entered is $3,000.00.



229

Q. And how much for negro children?
A. $1,050.00.
Q. Now for the cost of public libraries for elementary 

schools for white children as of the year 1947-1948, how 
much money was invested?

A. $500.00.
Q. How much for negro children in the elementary 

school?
A. None.
Q. How much was invested in the white school for 

white children?
A. $3,000.00.
Q. How much for negroes?
A. $500.00.
Q. For equipment for teaching music, how much 

was invested for white children in the elementary school?
A. $200.00.
Q. How much for whites in the high school?
A. $800.00.
Q. How much for negroes in the elementary school?
A. None, because it all went into one building.
Q. And how much for the negro high school?
A. $500.00.
Q. Now was any money spent for audio-visual aid in 

the elementary school for whites as of that year?
A. $500.00.
Q. Any spent for negro children in the elementary 

school?
A. No.
Q. How much was spent in the high school for whites 

for audio-visual aid?
A. $500.00.
Q. How much for colored?
A. None.



230

Q. In your opinion, Mr. Lemmons, as an educator, do 
you think that audio-visual aids are of educational value 
in teaching in the schools?

A. They are.
Q. Now the equipment for playgrounds; how much 

was spent for whites as of the year 1947?
A. I believe that that term “spent”—
Q. Was invested?
A. No. These figures do not represent the amount of 

money spent during the school year.
Q. I don’t mean that.
A. Well—

Mr. McGregor:
Well, let the witness answer.

A. I am afraid I am giving misleading answers here. 
Q. All right.
A. These figures represent the value of the accumu­

lated property which is under the jurisdiction of the 
school. This does not represent the amount of money 
which has been spent during that year. For example, 
this teachers’ home that you are referring to there, that 
has been the property of the school district for a number 
of years and shows on every report. The school district 
didn’t buy that teachers’ home during this school year. 
You see what I mean?

Mr. McGregor:
In other words, it is just an inventory.

Mr. Durham:
I am going to object to counsel taking the witness on 

cross examination.



231

The Court:
Let Mr. Durham finish with the witness.

Q. That is, the figures which you are giving is the 
amount of money invested in plants and equipment for 
negroes and whites over a period of years?

A. Yes.
Q. And those figures represent property that is set 

aside for the use and benefit in the educational system in 
LaGrange School District for the negro race and for 
the white race?

A. Yes.
Q. All right. I will ask you to tell the Court how much 

money was invested in school buildings, school sites, 
grounds, teachers’ homes, equipment for teaching labora­
tory courses, for the public school library, equipment for 
teaching music and the other equipment which was in­
vested as of the school year 1947-1948 for the benefit of 
white children. What was the total of that property?

A. $250,950.00.
Q. What was the value of the property owned and 

used at that time for the use and benefit of the education 
of negro children?

A. This entry is not totaled right here. I will have to 
total it. $163,200.00.

The Court:
What?

Mr. McGregor:
Will you say it so we can all hear it, please, sir.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, I would like for him to add it again.



232

A. Let me add it. I made a mistake, Your Honor. I am 
sorry. These figures are out of line, Your Honor. I get 
$61,200.00.

The Court:
What is the other figure, for the whites?

Mr. Durham:
$250,950.00.

The Court:
Mr. Witness, does that include the matters that have 

been testified about that were finished in September 
of this year? That is, the new high school and the 
improvement there in LaGrange?

A. No, Your Honor, they do not.

The Court:
Those figures do not include those improvements?

A. No, sir.

The Court:
What is the date of your report?

A. June 17, 1948?

The Court:
June 17, 1948?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
Well now, you are figuring on 1948. He has not asked 

you the figures for 1948-1949 yet, has he?



233

Mr. Durham:
No, sir.

Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, I will ask you to check the 
figures on the instrument I hold in my hand with 
reference to the investment made in property for negroes 
and see if those figures represent the same figures that 
you have just added up, the same amount?

A. Yes. I believe I carried a $25,000.00 sub-total in as 
a separate entry on that. They are out of line and they 
are hard to figure. $36,200.00. I would like to correct my­
self there. I made an error in it. I added a $25,000.00 sub­
total into this.

Q. Then according to your figures as superintendent, 
as of the school year 1947-1948, the school board of the 
Independent School District of LaGrange had invested 
the sum of $250,950.00 for the education of white students, 
and $36,200.00 for negro students?

A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you, if you will, to figure the per capita 

investment. I believe you had 1,073 scholastic enrollment 
in the white school, potential, and 524 in the negro 
school.

A. Do you want that carried out in cents or just—
Q. Oh, no, no. Just round figures?
A. If I did not make an error in these figures, the 

per capita investment for white children was $233.00 and 
for colored was $69.00.

Q. Up until the school year of 1947-1948 this Indepen­
dent School District of LaGrange had invested, per capita, 
for whites $233.00 or approximately that, for each white 
child in the district, a capital investment for facilities and 
equipment?

A. Yes.



234

Q. And for the same period of time they had an 
investment of $69.00 or thereabouts, per capita, ac­
cording to your figures—

Mr. McGregor:
For what, Counsel?

Q. Capital investments for the education of negro 
children?

A. Yes.
Q. Now will you please pick up what has been in­

troduced as Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 38.
A. Yes.
Q. Will you turn to page 11 of Exhibit No. 38 and 

will you tell the Court what was the total capital in­
vestment for the education of white children in the 
LeGrange Independent School District?

A. $450,050.00.
Q. Now what was the total capital investment for 

the education of negro children as of the same date? 
A. $105,800.00.

The Court:
As of what time, now, is this?

A. This was up to June 21, 1949, Your Honor.

The Court:
I will ask the question I asked a while ago. Does this 

$450,000.00 include the improvements there in La- 
Grange?

A. Yes, sir.



235

The Court:
Which were completed in September of this year?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
And the $105,800.00 for negroes, does that include 

their improvements?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now I notice, Mr. Lemmon, on page 11, line 3 

of Exhibit No. 38 there is an item, grounds for work­
ing in agriculture, and under the high school, value 
$5,000.00. Will you tell the Court what that is?

A. That is a portion or a part of a tract of land 
that was donated to the school by Mr. William Hermes 
in LaGrange.

Q. The title is in the school board, is it not?
A. It is.
Q. And it is owned by the school board?
A. It is.
Q. Now for what purpose is it used?
A. It is used for—there are a number of barns that 

are equipped to take care of the feeding of beef cattle. 
They can feed four or five beef cattle out there at one 
time. There are four or five barns used to house hogs.

Q. It is used in connection with the teaching of 
your agricultural service, is it not?

A. It is.
Q. It is animal husbandry, I believe they call it?
A. We don’t go that far.
Q. In the agriculture department of the high 

school?
A. Yes.



236

Q. And it is used as part of the practice teaching 
of agriculture, is it not?

A. Well, it is used as a laboratory field.
Q. That is right, laboratory field. Now do you con­

sider it of any educational value in the instruction in 
the subject of agriculture?

A. It is of some value, yes.
Q. Now have you one for the negro school?
A. We do not.

The Court:
You say that was given to the LaGrange School Dis­

trict?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
Did he make any restriction about whether it should 

be used for whites or negroes?

A. He did not specify, I don’t believe.

The Court:
Go ahead.

Q. Now are negro pupils permitted to use that 
piece of land in connection with their instructions in 
agriculture?

A. They have never been refused the use of it.
Q. Have they ever used it?
A. No.
Q. Has it been prescribed as a part of their course 

in agriculture, in agricultural subjects?
A. They are required to conduct their projects 

just as the white boys are.



237

Q. I am talking about this particular piece of 
property.

A. No, it has not been prescribed that they work up 
there.

Q. And you have no piece of land, real estate, there 
in connection with their instructions in agriculture, 
similar to this?

A. No.

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

The Court:
I take it your examination will be longer than the 

three or five minutes which are remaining.

Mr. McGregor:
Your Honor, I imagine Mr. Lemmons’ examination 

will take about two hours.

The Court:
Very well. The Court will adjourn till 9:30 in the 

morning.

(Adjourned at 4:30 p. m.)

December 7, 1949. 9:30 a. m.

The Court:
All right. You may proceed.

Mr. McGregor:
Mr. Lemmons, take the stand, please.



238

C. A. LEMMONS, resumed the stand and testified 
as follows:

Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:

(Photographs were marked as “ Defendants’ Ex­
hibits 5 to 22,”  inclusive.)

Q. Mr. Lemmons, would you please tell the Court 
how many actual plants are in the LaGrange Indepen­
dent School District?

A. There are five.
Q. Five. Would you tell the Court where they are 

located, please, by name preferably?
A. There is a high school building for the white lo­

cated in LaGrange which has the high school and the 
seventh and eighth grades of the elementary school. 
There is an elementary school building for white lo­
cated in LaGrange which has the first six grades of 
elementary school. There is a negro high school lo­
cated in LaGrange in conjunction with an elementary 
school for negroes which is used by all the negro 
students within the LaGrange Independent School 
District. There is an elementary school located at 
Ellinger for whites, for white children, and there is 
the elementary school located at Warda for white 
elementary children.

The Court:
The Warda and Ellinger High School students, do 

thev go into LaGrange?

A. Yes, sir. They come in on the school bus.



239

The Court:
And all of the negro students throughout the dis­

trict come into LaGrange, both for elementary grades 
and high school grades?

A. That is correct, Your Honor.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 6, Mr. Lem­

mons, and ask you what that is?
A. It is a picture, it is a correct representation of 

the Ellinger white elementary school.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce this in evidence as Defendants’ Exhibit

6 .

Mr. Durham:
We have no objection.

The Court:
Have you seen it?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we have seen it.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 6”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Now, on Defendants’ Exhibit 6 would you tell 
the Court what view of that school that is, as to 
whether that is the front, back or side?

A. This is the front view of the building and the 
front playground.

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 7 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a side view of the same building, facing 
west.



240

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce 7 into evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 7”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I see on Exhibit 7 what appears to be a water 
tank on the right hand side. Is that the water supply 
for the school?

A. It is.
Q. And what are those cylindrical tanks here in 

the foreground?
A. They are butane gas tanks.
Q. I see. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit—

The Court:
Just one minute.

Mr. McGregor:
Yes, sir.

The Court:
This Exhibit, Defendants’ Exhibit 7, is the rear of 

the Ellinger School?

A. It is the side view, Your Honor.

The Court:
Side view?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
I see.



241

Q, I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 5 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is another side view of the Ellinger school 
system. I believe this one is facing east.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce this in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 5”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 9 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a side view of the Ellinger School show­
ing the water fountain.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 9 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 9”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 8 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a view of the west side of—correct re­
presentation of the west side of the Ellinger School 
System.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 8 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 8”  was received in evi­
dence.)



242

The Court:
This is still Ellinger?

A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 11 and ask you 

what that is?
A. That is a bookcase in a classroom in the Ellin­

ger School.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 11 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 11”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 12 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of the drinking fountain inside of the Ellinger 
school building.

Mr. McGregor:
We introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 12 into evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 12”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 14 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of a portion of the kitchen in the Ellinger lunch­
room at the Ellinger School.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 14 in evidence.



243

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 14”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 13 and ask you 
what that is?

A. That is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of a portion of the playgrounds at the Ellinger 
Elementary School.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 13.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 13”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 22 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of a classroom in the Ellinger Elementary School.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 22 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 22”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 21 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of the room in which the children at the Ellinger 
Elementary School eat their lunches.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 21.



244

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 21”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 20 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of the cook stove on which the lunches at the 
Ellinger Elementary School are prepared.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit 20.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 20”  was received in evi­
dence.)

The Court:
Is that a gas stove or butane gas stove ?

A. It is butane gas, Your Honor.
Q. I hand you Defendants, Exhibit No. 19 and ask 

you what that is?
A. That is another photograph of an elementary 

classroom in the Ellinger Elementary School and 
this is a correct representation of it.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 19 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 19”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 18 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph and a correct representa­
tion of the stage and the gymnasium in the Ellinger 
Elementary School.



245

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 18 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 18’ ’ was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 17 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph of a classroom in the Ellin- 
ger Elementary school, which is a correct representa­
tion of it, and it shows the rear view of the room and 
the gas heater.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 17 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 17”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 10 and ask you 
what that is?

A. That is another photograph of the Ellinger gym­
nasium and auditorium and it shows the stage and 
the basket ball goal. This is a correct representa­
tion of the building.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 10 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 10”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you herewith Defendants’ Exhibit 15 and 
ask you what that is?



246

A. This is a photograph of a portion of the boys’ 
restroom in the Ellinger Elementary School and it is 
a correct representation of the restroom.

Mr. McGregor:
We introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 15 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 15”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 16 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is another photograph of a portion of the 
boys’ restroom in the Ellinger Elementary School and 
it is a correct representation of it.

Mr. McGregor:
We introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 16 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 16”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Returning now to Defendants’ Exhibits 10 and 
18, the two photographs of the gymnasium at the 
Ellinger School, I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if 
there is any heat in that gymnasium?

A. No, sir, there is not.
Q. I will ask you if the gymnasium is lighted?
A. It is lighted with several small light outlets in 

the ceiling but there are no reflectors on them.
Q. I see. Now, on the back of Defendants’ Exhibit 

10 I see on the right hand side looking into the picture 
a door ajar. What is inside the room where that door 
is ajar?

A. That room is used for the kitchen, for preparing 
the meals for the children at Ellinger School.



247

Q. Is it inside that room where the stove is re­
flected on Defendants’ Exhibit 20?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. I believe you have identified this Exhibit 21 as 

being the place where the students eat their lunch 
at the Ellinger School, is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is the view in Defendants’ Exhibit 21 in 

reference to the place you have located the kitchen in 
Defendants’ Exhibit 10?

A. It is directly across the gymnasium from  the 
stage. It is located directly across the back side of 
the gymnasium, from  the point from  which this pic­
ture was taken.

Q. Is the gymnasium to the back of this building 
or to the front?

A. The gymnasium is to the back of it.
Q. And is the eating place to the back, the right, 

the left or in which direction?
A. It is to the front.
Q. In other words, this eating place is on the 

front of the building?
A. It is.
Q. About how far is it from  the kitchen to the 

place where the children eat?
A. Probably 80 or 90 feet.
Q. Now in Exhibit No. 11, Defendants’ Exhibit 11, 

you have identified that as a picture of a bookcase at 
the Ellinger School. I will ask you what those books 
represent in reference to the Ellinger School?

A. Those are the library books that are used by the 
children in the sixth, seventh and eighth grades.

Q. Is that bookcase and the library supplies that 
you have just testified to reflected in Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 17?

A. Yes, it is.



248

Q. In other words, the bookcase is found in Ex­
hibit 17. Is that your testimony?

A. Yes, I believe so.
Q. Is that in one of the classrooms?
A. It is.
Q. And by the way, Mr. Lemmons, up until the 

school year 1947-1948, how were books acquired for 
the children in the LaGrange Independent School 
District?

A. Some of the library books were bought by the 
Parent Teachers Association. The remainder of them 
for the high school were bought from library fees 
which were collected at the rate of a dollar per stud­
ent for every student in high school.

Q. In other words, no tax money went into the 
purchase of books prior to the school year 1947-1948?

A. No, sir.
Q. Since the school year 1947-1948 has the La- 

Grange Independent School District taken any steps—

Mr. McGregor:
May I withdraw that, please?

The Court:
Yes.

Q. This library fee and contribution to the library, 
first as to the fee, that fee, how was it exacted?

A. The fee was collected by the principal of the 
various schools and the books were approved in my 
office and ordered and we drew a check on the library 
account to pay the bills.

Q. Was there any compulsion to pay the fee?
A. There was.
Q. Was there any compulsion to pay the fee in the 

negro school?



249

A. Yes, there was.
Q. Were those fees paid?
A. Some of them were and some of them were not.
Q. Were the fees as paid in the negro school used 

to purchase books?
A. They were administered in the same fashion.
Q. And were all of the funds collected from the 

negro school as fees, library fees, used in purchas­
ing of books for the negro school?

A. There were.
Q. Was there, at that time, any requirement in 

the tax structure of the LaGrange Independent School 
District a requirement that any of the residents, citi­
zens or anyone domiciled in the LaGrange Indepen­
dent School District, had to pay that tax?

A. I don’t understand your question.
Q. I will frame it differently. Is there anything in 

the tax structure requiring a payment of the library 
fee?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, I want to make an objection. The tax 

structure, we object to it. This tax statute or pro­
vision in the Independent School District as to the 
requirements of these taxes, that tax structure, what­
ever it may be, would be the best evidence.

The Court:
You are right, but I think he is asking this witness 

what he knows about it. That would be the best evi­
dence and the only evidence I could follow, I mean, 
the law itself would be what I would have to follow. 
Go ahead.



250

Q. Were there any taxes exacted in the district and 
applied to the purchase of books?

A. No, sir.

The Court:
Well, this tax of $1.00 per student—

A. Yes, Your Honor.

The Court:
—a year, that was collected from the white students 
and the negro students?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
And were the funds of the two intermingled or kept 

separate?

A. They were kept separate.

The Court:
The negro funds were used for the negroes and the 

white funds for the white?

A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. Now in addition to this library contribution— 

The Court:
Just one minute. You said it was compulsory. What 

did you do if it wasn’t paid?

A. We held the grades for one semester. You know, 
we did not give the report cards for one semester. If 
we found the student couldn’t pay it, we gave them



251

the cards and there was no penalty attached. That 
was a local school rule and there is no law or statute 
concerning it.

Q. Now since the school year 1947-1948 have any 
additional provisions been made for the purchase of 
books?

A. Yes, there have been.
Q. Please tell the Court what those provisions are?
A. We appropriate $1.00 per student enrolled in 

each of the various schools to be used by the princi­
pal in buying library material for that particular 
school.

Q. Have you done that uniformly throughout the 
five respective institutions since the school year 1947- 
1948?

A. Yes.
Q. And have you utilized those funds per capita in 

the negro school in the same way that you have in 
the white?

A. Yes.
Q. Now in addition to the assessments of $1.00 per 

student that was utilized for the purchase of books, 
was there any other method of getting funds from  the 
library to purchase books with?

A. The fines which were collected on overdue 
books were used. The Parent Teachers Association 
bought a number of different volumes for the library.

Q. Which Parent Teachers Association?
A. The white Parent Teachers Association.
Q. Did the colored Parent Teachers Association 

buy any books for the school?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. I see. All right. Now then, these fines. Were 

fines collected at the negro school?
A. They were supposed to be collected.



252

Q. Well, did you ever receive any?
A. No. That fund was administered by the negro 

principal.
Q. Did he have the authority to purchase what­

ever books he desired out of that fund?
A. He did.
Q. The funds that were collected on fines in the 

white school, who administered that?
A. The librarian in the white school and the white 

school principal.
Q. What about the principal at Ellinger and over at 

Warda? Do they have equal rights to administer their 
funds that they collected on the fines?

A. They did.
Q. Now on Defendants’ Exhibit 21, on the right 

hand side, I see what appears to be a bookcase some­
what similar to the bookcase in Defendants’ Exhibit 
11?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that some more of the books of the Ellinger 

School?
A. It is.
Q. How many children for the year 1948-1949 were 

in the Ellinger School, Mr. Lemmons?
A. I have the present year, 1949-1950.
Q. All right. Give us the present school year, 1949- 

1950.
A. We have 44 children enrolled in the Ellinger 

School this year.
Q. In this Exhibit 17, Exhibit 19 and Exhibit 22, 

classrooms at the Ellinger School, I will ask you how 
many grades are in the Ellinger School?

A. There are eight grades, total, in the Ellinger 
School.



253

Q. And how many classrooms are actually used in 
the teaching of those eight grades?

A. Two.
Q. In other words, how are those grades assigned 

to use those two classrooms?
A. Well, the first four grades are combined in one 

room, and the last four grades are combined in the 
other room.

Q. I see. So at the Ellinger School you have four 
grades in one classroom and four grades in another 
classroom?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
How far is Ellinger from  LaGrange?

A. Thirteen miles, Your Honor.
Q. Now Defendants’ Exhibits 7, 8, 13, 5 and 6, those 

exhibits as enumerated give a composite view of the 
complete school plat at Ellinger?

A. Yes, they do.
Q. Are there any sidewalks around that school?
A. There is only one sidewalk.
Q. Where is it located?
A. It is located in front of the building and it 

forms a “ Y ”  and goes to two different doors.
Q. I see.
A. I believe that is the only sidewalk.
Q. Is that the one that comes in from  the street?
A. Yes, it is. It com es in from  the front street.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibits 15 and 16, 

which I believe you have identified as the boys’ lava­
tory and toilets. Is that the same type service or a 
similar service that is maintained for the girls at the 
Ellinger School?



254

A. It is.
Q. I will ask you if the facilities shown on these 

two exhibits are the entire facilities for the boys at 
Ellinger School?

A. They are.
Q. Is the like type facility maintained for the 

girls at Ellinger School?
A. Yes, sir, similar.
Q. Can you tell me approximately how many stud­

ents eat a day from your paid lunchroom at Ellinger, 
as a daily average?

A. There was an average of 39 during October.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if Defendants’ 

Exhibits 19, 17 and 22 are all of the same classroom?
A. Yes, I believe they are.
Q. I will ask you then if the other classroom is in 

anywise similar to this one?
A. It is similar, yes.
Q. In Defendants’ Exhibit 17 I see in the right hand 

corner an instrument which you have testified is the 
heater. What kind of a heater is that, Mr. Lemmons?

A. That is a Bronte. That is the trade name, 
Bronte. It is a Bronte heater with a thermostat control 
below it to control the temperature of the room and 
there is a fan behind it to circulate the air.

The Court:
That is a butane gas heater, too?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. In Plaintiff’s Exhibit 26 I see a heater in the 

right hand corner. I will ask you if the system of heat­
ing employed there is the same as in the exhibit, De­
fendants, No. 17, which is shown you?



255

A. It is similar. It operates on the same principle 
except on Plaintiff’s Exhibit 26 the heat is furnished 
from hot water instead of gas being burned.

Q. And I will ask you if on Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 32 
there is a heater in the right hand center corner of 
the portrait?

A. Yes, there is.
Q. And I will ask you if that operates on the same 

principle as the heater shown in Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 
26?

A. It does, except this heater on Plaintiff’s Exhibit 
32 is a gas heater, and this one on 26 is a hot water 
heater.

Q. Incidentally, Mr. Lemmons, where does this hot 
water come from  that operates the heater in Plain­
tiff’s Exhibit 26?

A. From a gas fired furnace which is in another 
part of the building.

Q. Does the same furnace supply the hot water for 
the kitchen of this—

A. No, it does not.
Q. It does not. Now we were about, a while ago, to 

go into the question of the steps the school district 
was now taking, that is, following the school year 
1947-1948, to build up the libraries in its respective in­
stitutions. I will ask you what the district has done, 
beginning with the year 1948, and what it is doing 
now in the procuring of a library fund and the building 
up of the respective libraries in its various plants?

A. We apropriate a dollar per student for each 
plant for the purpose of library books and library ma­
terial and other materials to be used in the mainten­
ance and operation of the library.

Q- In other words, then, it is a fund to do more 
than just purchase books. It is to maintain the what?



256

A. To maintain the library.
Q. In other words, to cover the entire maintenance 

of the library, furniture, fixtures and books?
A. No. It is just for the books and the supplies used 

to mend the books and charge-out cards and envelopes 
that go in the back of the books, and things of that 
nature.

Q. Those funds now that you are talking about, 
are those funds coming from the taxpayers of the dis­
trict?

A. Yes.
Q. Do you still collect the fines and the library fee 

of $1.00?
A. No, we collect only the fines. We do not collect 

the library fee from anyone.
Q. Have you abolished the library fee in all the 

schools attended by the whites?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you abolished the library fee in the negro 

school?
A. We have.

The Court:
They are fined when they keep a book out too long?

A. Yes, Your Honor, over five days.
Q. Now when did you start that allocation of that 

fine?
A. I believe we started that in the 1948-1949 school 

year.
Q. Since starting it has it been administered on the 

basis that you have just testified to?
A. Yes. The prinicpal submits a list of books which 

have been approved by his librarian in the various 
schools and then those books are ordered, and when



257

they arrive they are allocated to the various schools 
for which they were ordered.

Q. I see. Has there been a continuation of different 
people from  time to time giving the libraries books?

A. Yes. There have been quite a few books given 
to the white library. For example, PTA, the Parent 
Teachers Association, had a book drive at the begin­
ning of this present school year and various members 
bought books from  a number of books on an ap­
proved list and gave them to the library.

Q. I see. And those books that have been donated 
to the LaGrange white school there, are they a part of 
the some 3700 I believe you stated, or some 3000— 
my recollection is not accurate as to your state­
ments—are they a part of that number of books which 
you testified to on direct examination yesterday?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Scott testified here early in this case and 

you heard his testimony where they had a Parent 
Teachers Association meeting at the negro school. 
And you heard him testify that they discussed the 
possibility of buying a moving picture projector for 
the negro school. Do you know whether or not the 
Negro Parent Teachers Association has bought any 
books or given any books to the negro school?

A. I do not know of a purchase of books over there 
by the Parent Teachers Association.

Q. Can you testify then that so far as you know 
there has been no such purchase?

A. Yes, I can.
Q. Would it have cleared through your office and 

would you have known about it if such purchase had 
been made from  the approved list?

A. I believe I would.



258

(Photographs were marked as “ Defendants’ Ex­
hibits 23 to 30,”  inclusive.)

Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, in the examination of Mr. 
Jackson, the agriculture teacher at the negro school, 
he was asked what activities they were carrying on 
there and what he was teaching. And on yesterday 
you were asked whether or not one of the items on 
your 1947-1948 or 1948-1949, I don’t know from  which, 
but your report, indicated a donation to the school of 
some two thousand dollars worth of property and you 
were asked if that property was used as a demon­
stration area for agriculture work. I will ask you, 
first, from whom did that piece of property come?

A. That property came from Mr. William Hermes 
of LaGrange.

Q. And what was the purpose that it was donated 
for?

A. It was donated for use by the FFA boys. That 
is the Future Farmers of America, and that is part 
of a tract of land that he donated.

Q. Well now, I am asking what did he donate the 
tract of land for?

A. For that purpose and for the erection of the 
white elementary school only.

Q. Does that land lie contiguously with the tract 
of land on which the old school stands at LaGrange?

A. Yes, it does.
Q. And in asking you about the use of those build­

ings there you were asked whether or not there was 
any such activity at the negro school. I believe your 
answer was that there was not. I will ask you if in 
the preceding years there has been any similar ac­
tivity at the negro school?

A. There has been.



259

Q. What has been the nature of that activity?
A. There were several pens for hogs and hog 

houses built up there for the NFA boys to use.
Q. I see. I judge from  your statement that that 

has now been abandoned at the negro school?
A. Yes. It is not in operation this year.
Q. Was it in operation up until this year?
A. I believe it was.
Q. By the way, this piece of land that Mr. Hermes 

gave for the erection of the school, where does that 
lie in the City of LaGrange? It is in the City of La- 
Grange, isn’t it?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. And about how far is it from the tract of land 

occupied by the negro school?
A. Approximately one-half to three-quarters of a 

mile.
Q. And it is within the city limits of the City of 

LeGrange?
A. Yes.
Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit Exhibit 34 and 

call your attention to the right hand side of that where 
I see a shed and ask you if that is the shed that you 
had reference to yesterday as being utilized by the 
agriculture club?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Do they have any pigs in there now?
A. No, they don’t.

The Court:
That is at what school?

Mr. McGregor:
That is behind, at the end of the tract of land on 

the Hermes School and adjacent to the old high school 
building.



260

The Court:
This is Exhibit 34? It says 34 on the back.

Mr. McGregor:
Well, Your Honor, 'the back marking is the one to 

use.

Q. Now, as a part of your program at the La- 
Grange Independent School District how is it de­
termined what courses to actually teach in the school? 
Now mark you, I am not asking about the offering of 
courses. I am asking about how it is determined what 
courses should be taught.

A. We make a survey, either in the late spring or 
the first days of September, first day of school, to 
see how many children want any particular course 
which fits into the curriculum, and if we get a suffi­
cient demand for the course, we teach it.

(A document was marked as “ Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 31,”  for identification.)

Q. In other words, if you get sufficient demand for 
a course, you teach it?

A. Yes.
Q. When you say “ sufficient demand”  do you mean 

that the board—or what do you mean in reference to 
how the board determines whether or not there is a 
sufficient demand?

A. Ordinarily we require ten or more students. In 
some cases, we make an exception and teach a course 
for seven or five, but it depends on the particular situ­
ation.

Q. In other words, you have to determine the econ­
omic situation to ascertain whether or not it is wise



261

to spend the money to educate the number of children 
asking for the course, is that what you mean?

A. Yes.

The Court:
Of course, that does not apply with all courses, does 

it?

A. No. We teach the required courses, Your Honor, 
but that applies to the elective courses in high school.

Q. In other words, in all these institutions you give 
the required courses, is that correct?

A. Yes.
Q. But any other electives your answer applies to? 
A , Yes.

The Court:
Who requires it, the State law or what?

A. The State Department of Education.

The Court:
The State Department of Education has certain re­

quired grades?

A. Yes, sir, and we are required, we have some 
local requirements ourselves, but most of our require­
ments are based directly on State Department of 
Education requirements.

Q. Did you, at any time, in any of these institu­
tions, drop below the State requirements?

A. No.

Mr. McGregor:
Q. Your Honor, may I speak to the witness pri­

vately while Mr. Durham is examining that?



262

The Court:
Yes.

Q. I hand you, Mr. Lemmons, what has been 
marked as Defendants’ Exhibit 31 and ask you what 
that is?

A. That is a pre-registration sheet that is used to 
make the survey which I was speaking of.

Q. Is it sent to all of the plants in your Indepen­
dent School District?

A. Yes. This was used in the one plant in the 
spring of—late spring of the last school year, during 
the last three or four days of the school term, and 
in September I sent it to the colored plants for use 
over there in their registration.

Q. And has either that type or a similar type been 
in use before?

A. No, not a form like this, No, sir.
Q. Not a form like that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Well then, has there been such a system prior 

to this year in use?
A. Yes, there has, a general system.
Q. But not reduced to that type form ?
A. Not reduced to writing, no, sir.
Q. In prior years what method was utilized to de­

termine from the respective plants as to what courses 
would be taught?

A. The surveys were made in both schools on the 
first day of registration in the fall and we found 
that we could not anticipate the demand for elective 
courses that way so we started this plan to anticipate 
the demand for elective courses so we could get the 
teachers and the equipment ready to teach the 
courses.



263

Q. So Defendants’ Exhibit 31 is now sent to all 
the plants in the district?

A. Yes.

Mr. McGregor:
I offer in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit 31.

( “ Defendants Exhibit 31”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. When did you take—

The Court:
Just one moment. In electing courses did the stu­

dents have the aid of his teacher?
A. Yes, he has the aid of his teacher and he has 

the aid of his principal.
Q. That is true in both schools, for whites and for 

negroes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you take your present position with 

the LaGrange Independent School District?
A. In July of 1946.
Q. Did you begin serving in the capacity which 

you now occupy with that district at that time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In connection with the testimony of Julius 

Brown and the allegations in the plaintiff’s petition 
here, there is an allegation that one Vivian Brown 
applied for chemistry in the school year 1947-1948. 
To whom did she apply, if you know?

A. She applied to me.
Q. Do you rem em ber the time of year when that 

application was made?
A. That application was made on Decem ber 5.



264

Q. Nineteen hundred and what?
A. 1947, I believe.
Q. Was chemistry being taught that year in the 

negro school?
A. No, it wasn’t.
Q. Did you receive that year any other applica­

tions for the teaching of chemistry prior to Decem­
ber 5, 1947?

A. No, sir.
Q. Was chemistry, in the school year 1947-1948, a 

required subject or an elective subject?
A. It was an elective subject.
Q. Had Vivian Brown applied to anyone in the 

negro school for this course before she came to 
you?

A. I don’t know.
Q. Did you turn down her application for the 

course during the school year 1947-1948?
A. I did.
Q. On what grounds?
A. On the grounds that the application was made 

after the school year had been in progress for some— 
from September until December 5, some three 
months, and it was impossible to teach a full course 
of chemistry in the remaining time of the school 
year.

Q. Now, a while ago you testtified that it was 
necessary for the school board to determine as to 
elective courses when requests were made for them, 
whether or not there were a sufficient number of 
students applying for that elective course to make it 
economical to present it in that particular school. I 
will ask you if, since 1946, when you assumed your 
present position with the LaGrange Independent 
School District, up until September 1 of 1949, any



265

other person, male or female, has applied for a 
course in chemistry at the Randolph School?

A. You mean up until this present year?
Q. Yes, up to September 1 this year?
A. I don’t recall of anyone applying for it.
Q. So far as you know, has any other person or 

individual from the Randolph School, up until Sep­
tember 1, applied to you for that course?

A. No.
Q. I will ask you if, since you assumed your pres­

ent position with the Randolph School in 1946, up 
until September 1 of this year, if biology has been 
taught at that school?

A. I believe it has.
Q. Is it being taught at that school this year?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. I believe in the testimony of Julius Brown there 

was a statement that on the same occasion Vivian 
Brown applied to you for biology. I will ask you if 
on December 5, 1947, she made any such applica­
tion to you?

A. She did not ask for biology.
Q. I will ask you if, during the school year 1947- 

1948, biology was taught at the Randolph School in 
LaGrange?

A. Yes, it was.
Q. Therefore, if Vivian Brown, at the opening of 

the school, had wanted to take a course in biology 
there would have been no reason why she could not 
have taken it?

A. There would have been no reason. I believe 
she was enrolled for it at that time.

Q. You believe she was enrolled for it?
A. I believe she was. I am not positive, but I 

believe she was.



266

Q. During the school year 1949-1950, as one of the 
electives at the Randolph School in LaGrange, is 
chemistry being taught?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is this the first year, so far as you know, that 

chemistry is being taught at that school?
A. To my recollection, yes, sir.
Q. In any event, since you assumed your present 

position this is the first time that chemistry is being 
taught. Now what was the laboratory equipment in 
Randolph School used for prior to September of this 
year?

A. Biology and general science courses.
Q. I see. By the way, can you tell me how many 

chemistry students you now have enrolled in chem­
istry at the Randolph School?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
Is that elective or required?

A. It is an elective course, Your Honor. I have 
16 enrolled in chemistry.

Q. Is that one grade or is that divided into a num­
ber of grades?

A. That is one course, they are taught in one sec­
tion, one class.

Q. I see. How many years of chemistry is offered 
in the white school at LaGrange?

A. Only one year.
Q. In other words, you are offering one year of 

chemistry in the white school and you are offering 
one year of chemistry in the Randolph School?

A. We are.



267

Q. By the way, Mr. Lemmons, after you succeeded 
to the present position you hold with the LaGrange 
Independent School District there has been an ex­
tensive repair, new building and remodeling going on 
in the LaGrange District, has there not?

A. Yes, there has.
Q. There has been over that entire period, a con­

tinual increase of equipment and supplies in all the 
schools, has there not?

A. Yes, there has.

(A photostat was marked “ Defendants’ Exhibit 
32,”  for identification.)

Q. And would you tell me approximately when the 
present building program, that is to say, program 
that culminated in what is reflected on Defendants’ 
Exhibit 1 and what is reflected by Plaintiff’s—

Mr. McGregor:
I will change the form of that question. I do not 

have the exhibit right at the moment.

Q. Will you tell me about when the building pro­
gram found its most extensive improvement program 
in the construction of and the addition to and the 
repair of the Randolph School and the construction of 
what is now called the Hermes School. In other words, 
was it this year, last year?

A. It started year before last.
Q. And is any of the work still going on?
A. Yes. The landscaping work has not been com ­

pleted. The installation of various items of equip­
ment in both buildings, the laying of sidewalks and 
various other small jobs are yet to be done. The



268

buildings have been finished and the structure com­
pleted but we have to finish the sidewalks and the 
landscaping and the fencing and those things.

Q. In other words, it has taken about two years to 
do what you have gotten done so far?

A. That is right.
Q. Now as a part of this teaching of chemistry at 

Randolph School, you utilize a room which is reflect­
ed in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 19. That is correct, isn’t 
it?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. In the back of Plaintiff’s Exhibit 19 in what 

appears to be something of an alcove, I see what ap­
pears to be upended stools. What are those?

A. Those are stools for the chemical laboratory.
Q. Are they new or old?
A. They are new.
Q. Have they recently been put in the institution?
A. Yes, sir, within the past 45 days.
Q. Where did they come from ?
A. I bought them from the American Desk Com­

pany in Temple, I believe.
Q. And what is their purpose?
A. They are to be used in that room when the 

regular laboratory tables are installed.
Q. In other words, they are regular stools of the 

type that is used in a chemistry laboratory?
A. Yes. I bought 32 of them when I bought them, 

and 16 of them I transferred to the colored school and 
16 of them to the white laboratory.

Q. I see. And I believe you say you now have 
16 students in the chemistry course at the Randolph 
School?

A. Yes.



269

Q. Now also in the back of Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 19 
I see an open door. Where does that door go?

A. That goes into the storeroom, in the chemical 
laboratory or the science laboratory in Randolph 
Colored School.

(Photographs were marked as “ Defendants’ Exhi­
bits 33 and 34,”  for identification.)

Q. I hand you what is marked as Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 33 and ask you what that is?

A. That is a photograph of the interior of the 
storeroom in the science laboratory in Randolph 
Colored School.

Q. Is that the door that you referred to in Plain­
tiff’s Exhibit 19? I believe it is.

A. Yes, it is.
Q. And what is this equipment on the shelves here, 

Mr. Lemmons?
A. There are test tube racks, a balance, model of 

a steam engine, rings.
Q. All right. Generally then, what is it?
A. It is general science equipment or equipment 

for the teaching of science, chemistry and general 
science.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 33.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 33”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Now in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 19 at about the cen­
ter of the face of it I see some cabinets and I hand 
you Defendants’ Exhibit 34 and ask you what that 
is?



270

A. That is a photograph of the interior of the 
cabinets which you referred to.

Q. And what is shown, generally, in that photo­
graph?

A. Equipment for teaching science, particularly 
chemistry and general science.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 34.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 34’ ’ was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Now in connection with the stools in Plaintiff’s 
Exhibit 19 which you say you ordered sometime ago 
and which are reflected there as part of the new 
equipment for the teaching of science at the Randolph 
School, I will ask you if you ordered any other 
equipment?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Has it as yet arrived?
A. No, it has not.
Q. What was the other equipment you ordered?
A. Laboratory tables.
Q. I will ask you if you have in your possession a 

blueprint from which you ordered such tables?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Was it on that blueprint that you placed your 

order?
A. Yes. It is the blueprint from which I placed 

my order.

(A blueprint was marked as “ Defendants’ Exhibit 
35’ ’ for identification.)



271

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit 35.

(“ Defendants’ Exhibit 35”  was received in evidence.)

Q. Now I will ask you if you have in your posses­
sion an acknowledgment of that order?

Mr. McGregor:
I would like to tear this off up here. It is bound so 

tight that I don’t want any question about it being 
mutilated. Will that be satisfactory?

Mr. Durham:
That will be all right.

(A document was marked as “ Defendants’ Exhibit 
36” for identification.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 36 and ask you 
if that is the acknowledgment you referred to of this 
particular order?

A. Yes, it is.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit 35. I 

think I already introduced it. And I also introduce 
in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit 36.

(“ Defendants’ Exhibit 36” was received in evi­
dence.)

The Court:
We will take a recess of ten minutes.

(Short recess.)



272

The Court:
Be seated.

You may proceed.

Mr. McGregor:
Have I shown Your Honor Exhibit 36?

The Court:
Yes, I saw it.

Q. This is Exhibit 36 which I have introduced in 
evidence. Does that represent the specifications of 
the table which is illustrated in Defendants’ Exhibit 
35?

A. Yes, it does. It is the specification for table 
No. G-523.

Q. And that illustrates what this table is made 
out of. That is to say, whether it is wood or steel?

A. Yes, it does.
Q. And what is it made out of?
A. It is made out of wood with—well, the order 

is for two tables. Each table is 12 feet long and 3 
feet wide and 2 feet 7 inches high. Each table has a 
1-5/8 inch thick carbonized birchwood top, four steel 
spring rods in top—

Q. What are the four steel rods for?
A. They are to hold the laminated wood tops to­

gether.
Q. All right, go ahead.
A. One stone sink, 18 by 12 by 6 inches deep. Two 

single water cocks, two double gas cocks, 12 drawers, 
14 by 16 inches and 4 inches deep. Two drawers 
17-3/4 by 9 inches and 4 inches deep. Eight aluminum 
leg shoes. One lead trap assembly for each sink, and



273

the tables are built of select plain white oak and fin­
ished in school brown.

Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, on that Defendants’ Ex­
hibit No. 35 would you mark with the letter A, using 
it twice, the water cocks?

A. All right.
Q. Would you use the letter B, using it twice, and 

mark the two double gas cocks?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you mark one of the drawers with the 

letter C?
A. All right.
Q. Would you mark the aluminum leg shoes, one 

of them only, with the letter D?
A. Yes.
Q. And mark the lead trap assembly with the 

letter E.
A. All right.
Q. Have you so marked Defendants’ Exhibit 35?
A. I have.

Mr. McGregor:
I reintroduce it with the markings on it.

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’ s Exhibit 19, which I believe 
has been identified a number of times as the chem­
istry room in the Randolph School, and ask you if the 
tables reflected by the specifications and the blue­
print of Defendants’ Exhibits 35 and 36 are to be 
placed in that room?

A. They are.
Q. It has been testified that presently there are no 

water connections or gas connections in that room. 
Is that correct?

A. That is correct.



274

Q. When those tables are received will the gas 
and water connections be put in?

A. They will.
Q. I will ask you when you placed the order did 

you have any assurance as to when the tables would 
be received?

A. The order was placed, as I recall, about the 
fifteenth or seventeenth day of last August and the 
tables were to be delivered within 45 days.

Q. Have you made any effort to ascertain why 
they have not been delivered?

A. Yes, I have.
Q. Have you received any information as to when 

they probably will be delivered?
A. I received information that they would prob­

ably be delivered during the month of December.
Q. I see. Have you as yet received them?
A. I had not when I left LaGrange Monday morn­

ing.
Q. Is it an article that you can go into the open 

market and purchase?
A. It is not.
Q. I hand you, Mr. Lemmons, Plaintiff’s Exhibit 

18 and ask you what that is?
A. That is the chemistry laboratory or the science 

laboratory rather, in the white school building.
Q. Are there tables reflected in that picture?
A, There are.
Q. Do you know how old those tables are?
A. I believe those tables were bought in 1923 or 

1924.
Q. The tables that are reflected by Defendants’ 

Exhibit 35 and 36, how do they compare as to whether 
or not they are of more recent and accepted design?



275

A. I believe the tables on Defendants’ Exhibit 35 
are more practical and more useful than these older 
tables on Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 18.

Q. How many tables do you have for the science 
department, science laboratory there in the white 
high school?

A. We have four.
Q. Have you ordered any additional?
A. No, I have not.
Q. How many will this give you at the Randolph 

School?
A. Two.
Q. How many students are taking chemistry at the 

white school?
A. May I refer to my notes?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. There are 25.
Q. Twenty-five?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I believe you stated there are 16 at the 

Randolph School?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I hand you herewith Defendants’ Exhibit 32 and 

ask you if you recognize that as the ground plan 
of the Randolph School?

The Court:
As the what?

Q. Ground plan?
A. Yes, it is.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce this Exhibit 32 in evidence.



276

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 32”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. To the left of that Defendants’ Exhibit 32 I see 
a large square area which has the word “ Gymnasi­
um ”  in the center of it. Is that where the gymnasium 
is at the Randolph School?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. And within that large area is a smaller square 

area bounded by lighter lines. What does that repre­
sent?

A. That represents the wooden floor for the basket 
ball court in the gymnasium.

Q. Outside of those lighter lines and between them 
and the heavier black lines, what is that?

A. That is a concrete floor.
Q. And is that true on each side?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And is that true on this end?
A. No. The wooden floor extends to the end.
Q. To that extent then this line here is in error?
A. Yes, and the front line is also in error to the 

same extent.
Q. Does the wooden floor in this gymnasium area 

or the basket ball area extend all the way to the 
stage?

A. It does.
Q. In the area, in the middle left hand side, facing 

the picture, there are black lines coming down to a 
heavy partition, I mean, to the end, on the left hand 
side of that building. What is that area between those 
lines ?

A. It is a kitchen room in the gymnasium.
Q. And to the rear on the left side and the right 

side of the gymnasuim area are some rooms parti­
tioned off. What is in those rooms?



277

A. Those are dressing rooms. They are equipped 
with showers, hot and cold water showers, lavatories 
and commodes.

Q. Now at the opening to the—

The Court:
In that gymnasuim, I understand it is on a concrete 

slab. Is that right?

A. Yes, it is.

The Court:
So that wooden floor is made on the concrete slab?

A. Yes, Your Honor.

The Court:
On top of it?

A. Yes. It is recessed into the concrete slab and 
the finished floor, of course, is level with the other 
concrete slab.

The Court:
Yes.

Q. Now to the front I see what appears to be an 
entranceway between some classrooms and the gym­
nasuim. Is that an entranceway into the school?

A. Yes. It is one of the entrances.
Q. Is that particular entrance reflected in this el­

evation at this point?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. That is Defendants’ Exhibit 1 which I am point­

ing to. Now I see over on the other side of the front



278

of the school what appears to be another entrance­
way. Is that an entranceway?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Is that reflected on the face of the elevation 

of Defendants’ Exhibit 2, at this point?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Over both of those areaways the roof struc­

ture of the entire building passes, does it not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I see a shaded area behind what appears to be 

the four classrooms proceeding from east to west 
in this direction, and I ask you what that area is?

A. It is a covered walkway and has a concrete 
walk or floor and the roof of the classrooms extends 
over it.

Q. Is that concrete on the same level with the floor 
of the classrooms that are in the four drawings that 
are in front of you?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Is the entranceway concrete?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it on a level with the classroom floor?
A. It is.
Q. And is the entranceway on the left likewise on a 

level with the classroom floor?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Now inside the picture is an areaway that is 

labeled “ patio.”  I will ask you if that areaway is 
covered in any way?

A. No, it is not.
Q. That area has no roof over it?
A. No.
Q. That light looking passage up through here, is it 

similar to this passage?
A. Yes, it is.



279

Q. Does it have a roof over it?
A. It does.
Q. By the way, Mr. Lemmons, when you reach 

the point at this side of the patio, proceeding to the 
end of this building, do you go through doors here?

A. Yes, you do.
Q. And is this portion of that corridor enclosed?
A. It is.
Q. Is there a door when you leave this entrance­

way to proceed on out through this passage?
A. There is.
Q. And is that true on the left hand side of the 

picture as well?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. I see in each of the front classrooms what ap­

pears to be an opening onto the inside corridor at the 
rear and ask you if those are the openings into the 
corridor?

A. They are the openings from  the classrooms into 
the corridor.

Q. Now those rooms that I now point to in the 
middle of the two ells that proceed back, this room, 
this room, and this room, all open, do they not, into 
the enclosed areaway abutting the center portion of 
the ell?

A. Two of them do.
Q. Which two?
A. This room and this one. This room opens just 

outside of the door which goes into the closed pas­
sageway.

Q. I see. Then the patio where these three open 
corridors are situated is bounded on all sides by the 
completely constructed unit, is it not?

A. It is.



280

Q. It is not open in any way then, to the wind, 
except that this passageway proceeding to the east 
is fully open and this passageway, after it passes 
this structure, is fully open. That is correct, isn’t 
it?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Now, if you leave the series of rooms that join 

the two ells and proceed on to the rear, is this outside 
corridor covered with a roof?

A. It is.
Q. And is this outside corridor covered with a 

roof?
A. It is.

The Court:
Is that the old part of the building?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. Now, there have been—

The Court:
Was the roof there before these new improve­

ments or was it put there during the new improve­
ments ?

A. No, it has been there—

The Court:
All the time?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. By the way, I don’t recall whether I asked you 

or not, but can you tell us about when the old portion 
of this Randolph School was constructed?

A. That was built by the WPA or PWA project 
back in between 1934 and 1936.



281

Q. The exact year you are unable to state?
A. No, I cannot state at this time the exact year. 
Q. Now at the end of each of the parallel wings 

of the older portion of the building I see a smaller 
room. What are those rooms used for 

A. Those are restrooms for the boys on the left 
and the girls on the right.

Q. I see.

The Court:
Those restrooms, as I understand it, are just for 

the old portion or do they serve the whole building?

A. They serve the whole building.

The Court:
The whole building. And the entrance to them 

is from the outside covered walk?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

The Court:
“ Walks”  is not the word.

Mr. McGregor:
“ Outside corridors”  is the technical expression, 

Your Honor.

Q. There is also, in addition to these particular 
restrooms, these restrooms at the back of the gym 
which are available to the students, are there not?

A. Yes, there are.

The Court:
They can be reached from  the gym?



282

A. Yes. They can be reached from the gym or 
from exterior doors leading from the playground.

Q. In other words, if the children are outside, they 
can come in here without going all the way through 
here?

A. Yes.
Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, I will ask you what age 

children are taught in the lower grades of the La 
Grange Independent School District?

A. How many of the lower grades do you refer 
to?

Q. Well, what do you call the lower grades?
A. Well, the first eight grades are the elementary 

grades.
Q. You call those the elementary grades?
A. Yes, sir. The first grade children range be­

tween the ages of 6 and 7, and the eighth grade chil­
dren range between the ages of 13 and 15.

Q. Is there any material difference in the average 
age in the colored students and the white students?

A. Very little.
Q. Very little. They are well nigh of equal age 

so far as their school attendance is concerned, in 
years?

A. Yes.
Q. What is the average age of the students that 

attend the high school portion of the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District?

A. From 14 to 18 years old. Some of them are 
19, but that is the general—-

Q. Very rarely you ever have any over 19, I pre­
sume?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.
Q. Do you know whether or not you have now any 

over the age of 19?



283

A. I don’t recall. I don’t believe I do.
Q. The State of Texas has a compulsory law in 

reference to children going to school, doesn’t it?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And do you know of your own knowledge what 

that present age limit it?
A. No, I don’t. I believe it is from —
Q. That is all right. If you don’t know, you don’t 

know. Now so far as the entrance requirements in 
your primary school, is that requirement uniform in 
the LaGrange Independent School District?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Now so far as your entrance requirements are 

concerned in your high school section in the La- 
Grange Independent School District, is that require­
ment uniform?

A. It is.
Q. So far as the system of classroom teaching is 

concerned in the primary schools, is that uniform 
in the LaGrange Independent School District?

A. Generally, yes.
Q. System, I am talking about?
A. Yes, generally, yes.
Q. So far as the teaching is concerned in the high 

school portion of the LaGrange Independent School 
District, is that system uniform?

A. Yes.
Q. So far as the examination system, that is the 

requirements as to what examinations shall be given, 
the weight that is to be given to them and the usual 
things that the educator regards as of value in an 
examination system, is that uniform in those elemen­
tary and high school sections in the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District?

A. Yes. The system is uniform throughout.



284

Q. And the requirements are the same through­
out?

A. They are.
Q. Are the requirements for graduation, that is, 

as to number of credits, hours of study, hours of 
recitation and so forth, uniform throughout the La- 
Grange Independent School District, both as to the 
elementary and as to the high school?

A. They are.
Q. As to the text books used by the students in 

the elementary school and the high school, through­
out the entire LaGrange Independent School District, 
are they uniform?

A. They are.
Q. And the same text books that are used in one 

school are used in another, where appropriate?
A. Yes. They are furnished by the State of Texas.
Q. And you follow the requirements and the rules 

and regulations of the state in reference to the sup­
plying of those text books?

A. We do.
Q. And you have done that uniformly throughout 

the district?
A. Yes.
Q. How many teachers do you have at the present 

time in the Randolph School of the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District?

A. Eighteen.
Q. Are there requirements of the State of Texas in 

reference to the qualifications of teachers to teach 
in the respective public school systems of the state?

A. There are.
Q. In the selection of teachers in the Randolph 

School in the LaGrange Independent School District, 
speaking now of the combined school, have those 
requirements been observed?



285

A. They have.
Q. Have they been applied uniformly as they have 

in the white schools of the district?
A. Yes, they have.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, how do the quali­

fications, as far as certification is concerned, of the 
teachers now being employed by the LaGrange In­
dependent School District in the Randolph School 
compare with the qualifications of the teachers now 
teaching in the white schools of the district?

A. The training of the teachers in the Randolph 
School averages a fraction more than the training of 
the teachers in the white schools.

The Court:
What do you mean by training?
A. I mean by taking the number of years which 

they have attended college and striking the average 
from the number of years of attending college in the 
Randolph School, the sum total of the years the 
teachers in the white school have earned in college 
work.

The Court:
You mean it is greater in the negro school?
A. Yes, by a small fraction.

The Court:
Who selects the teachers?
A. The teachers are selected—first, they are ap­

proved by the principals of the various schools and 
then they are approved by me, and then they are 
officially employed by the Board of Education, the 
School Board.



286

Q. In other words, to teach in the Randolph School 
the teacher first must have the approval of the princi­
pal in that school?

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
And then he comes to you and then he goes to the 

Board?
A. Yes, sir. That is a general policy of the system. 

The Court:
Well, is that carried out in such a way that the 

principal has a voice in the selection of these tea­
chers?

A. Yes. He has a voice in the selection of these 
teachers because he works with them and he knows 
the assignments to which they are going to be as­
signed.

The Court:
I see.

Q. Now I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if at the pre­
sent time the prescribed curriculum for both elemen­
tary and high school portions of the Randolph School 
as prescribed by the State of Texas as being required 
is being taught in that school?

A. Yes, it is.
Q. So far as the Randolph School is concerned, as 

compared with the other white schools in the La- 
Grange Independent School District, can you tell me, 
first, how many students per teacher does the Ran­
dolph School have?

A. I don’t have those figures.



287

Q. Well, during the lunch hour will you please 
make that up.

Now, on your direct examination, Mr. Lemmons, 
you were asked where the food was cooked that was 
served at the Randolph School. Would you state that 
for the Court again, please?

A. The food is cooked in the cafeteria at the 
Hermes White Elementary building.

Q. Where is the lunchroom used by the students 
at the old white high school and the Hermes School 
located?

A. It is located—well, it is a part of the Hermes 
Elementary School building.

Q. In other words, both the students at the old 
high school and the students at the Hermes School eat 
at the same place, the high school students walking 
over?

A. They do.
Q. By the way, before the erection of the Hermes 

Building where were the elementary students taught?
A. In the old, in the building that is now being used 

for the high school.
Q. In other words, you had both high school and 

elementary in the same building?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Now at the time that the food is prepared, how 

is it ascertained how much food should be taken to the 
Randolph School?

A. Between the hours or the time of 8:45 and 9:30 
in the morning each teacher determines the number 
of children who are in her classroom who are going 
to take lunch at the cafeteria. That is throughout the 
whole system. That information is phoned to my of­
fice and my secretary takes it to the chief cook in 
charge of the lunchroom. Then he prepares his meals 
according to or based on that information.



288

Q. Now what has been the experience as to the 
average number of students and teachers that have 
been eating at the Randolph School cafeteria?

A. During the last month 43 children ate at the 
Randolph School. That is average of 43 throughout the 
month.

Q. Does that reflect the number of meals pre­
pared and served over there or does it reflect the 
number of children that ate?

A. That reflects the number of children that ate.
Q. If some of the faculty members ate there would 

be an additional figure?
A. There would be.
Q. During that month does it reflect that any of 

the faculty ate there?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. What is the average daily number of the facul­

ty that eat there?
A. I don’t have those figures but they average, as 

I recall, five or six of them eat there daily.
Q. I see. Now in that particular kitchen at the Ran­

dolph School the food can be prepared there and 
served there, can it not?

A. It could be.
Q. You have in that kitchen, according to these 

exhibits that have been introduced here, a stove and 
an ice box and a deepfreeze, sink, dish rack and 
other equipment, don’t you?

A. Yes, that is true.
Q. Why is it that you have deemed it expedient to 

prepare the food at the Hermes School and take it to 
the Randolph School?

A. Because we believe that we can save on the 
cost, the unit cost of preparing each meal in a central 
kitchen and carrying it out to the various schools for



289

serving. That procedure has been approved by the 
Lunchroom Division of the State Department of Edu­
cation.

Q. In other words, that procedure you are using 
here, at the Hermes and Randolph Schools, is that 
you have established a central kitchen which has 
been approved by the State authorities for the prepa­
ration of food and then taking it to the schools? 

A. It is.
Q. It is. Now then, the stove that you use at the 

Randolph School is for what purpose?
A. For warming the food.
Q. In other words, keeping it warm until it is 

served.
A. Yes.

The Court:
How long before the food is served does it leave 

the place that it is prepared?

A. They begin serving as soon as the food arrives 
at the school. They leave the kitchen between 11:30 
and 11:45 and they start serving immediately, as 
soon as the food arrives at Randolph.

The Court:
Well,how long does it take to get it over there?

A. Well, I would say ten minutes. It is only half to 
three-quarters of a mile.

The Court:
How is it protected between places?



290

A. It is placed in aluminum containers of the type 
that the Army used, closed containers, and carried 
over there.

The Court:
Well, is it hot or cold when you start out with it?

A. It is hot.

The Court:
And I guess in the summertime, why, it doesn’t 

get very cold going over, does it?
A. No, sir.

The Court:
In the wintertime if it does get cold, why you put it 

on the stove at the Randolph School. Is that the idea?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that about the way they serve the white 

people? About the same time?
A. Yes. They start about the same time.

The Court:
Gentlemen, I missed my Rotary attendance last week 

and I want to make it up today. I think it will be nec­
essary for me to leave in about five minutes from 
now to get out there, so with your permission I am 
going to recess Court until 2:00 o ’clock.

(Recessed at 11:40 a. m.)

Afternoon Session, 2:00 P. M.

The Court: 
Be seated.
You may proceed.



291

Mr. Durham:
If it please Your Honor, the photographer, Mr. 

Hickman, I talked with Mr. McGregor and I do not 
think we will use him any more and we wanted to 
ask the Court to excuse him.

The Court:
He may be excused.

Mr. McGregor:
May it please the Court, I told the Court this morn­

ing I would ask a technical witness to be here at 2:00 
o’clock and in the absence of objections from counsel 
I would like to use him now so he may be excused, 
if the Court will let me interrupt my examination of 
Mr. Lemmons.

The Court:
That is all right.

HUGH E. GREGG, was called as a witness in be­
half of the defendants and, having been first duly 
sworn, testified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Please state your name to the Court.
A. Hugh E. Gregg.
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Gregg?
A. Milcombe Boulevard, Houston.
Q. How long have you lived in Houston, Texas?
A. I came here in 1938.



292

The Court:
Speak out a little louder, please, sir,

Q. Where were you born and raised, Mr. Gregg?
A. In Dallas.
Q. What is your profession?
A. I am an architect.
Q. Where did you receive your education?
A. At Rice Institute.
Q. Did you go to any other schools or colleges?
A. John Tarlton.
Q. Where is that?
A. Stephensville.
Q. Did you get a degree from that school as well?
A. It is Junior College.
Q. Are you licensed to practice architecture in 

Texas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you hold a license of any other kind from 

the state or Government or any other organization?
A. No, sir.
Q. Are you a member of any national association 

of architects?
A. American Institute of Architects, Texas Society 

of Architects.
Q. How long have you been actively practicing 

architecture?
A. I had my license to practice architecture just 

about a year ago.
Q. Just about a year. With whom are you asso­

ciated?
A. Stayton Nunn.
Q. And is Mr. Nunn an architect?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And where is his place of business?
A. 2425 Ralph Street.



293

Q. In the City of Houston?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Gregg, if Mr. Nunn is the 

architect for the Houston Independent School Dis­
trict?

A. He is co-ordinating architect for the Houston 
Independent School District.

Q. What do you mean by co-ordinating architect?
A. He handles all of the schools boards’ architec­

tural work. Instead of having—say we have 50 dif­
ferent school projects going on, instead of having 50 
architects come to the School Board with their prob­
lems, they go to Mr. Nunn. He starts out by making 
a schematic layout for a school job and turns that 
over to the project architect, and the project archi­
tect takes that schematic layout and will make work­
ing drawings from that.

Q. How long have you been working for Mr. Nunn?
A. A little over two years.
Q. And when did you finish Rice Institute?
A. I got my first degree in 1941.
Q. Then where did you go?
A. I had two more years at Rice, got a B. S. and 

Master’s.
Q. Then what did you do?
A. Went to work for Wilson, Morris and Crain.
Q. Are they architects?
A. Yes, sir,. Before that I was in the Navy.
Q. How long were you in the Navy?
A. Four years.
Q. And you came back here in 1946?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And who did you go to work for in 1946?
A. Wilson, Morris and Crain.
Q. And you stated that you stayed with them until 

a little over a year ago?



294

A. I was with them until a little over two years 
ago.

Q. Now in the course of your work there with Mr. 
Nunn, have you had under your supervision and as a 
part of your work, planning of the schools here in the 
Independent School District of Houston, Texas?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Gregg, if you are familiar 

with what is known as the open corridor?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I will ask you if within the course of your 

work over the past two years you have designed any 
such open corridors?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you if in this particular locality cov­

ered by the Houston Independent School District are 
there any schools which have what is known as the 
open corridor?

A. Yes, sir, there are 12.
Q. There are 12?
A. Yes, sir. We have 12 we are working on now.
Q. That you yourself have actually worked on?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you describe for the Court generally what 

is the scheme used in the construction of the open 
corridor in the public schools. General scheme I am 
asking for.

A. Well, where you have a covered, a roofed over 
passage on the side of your classrooms which you use 
for going from classroom to classroom where one 
side is closed by the wall of the classroom and the 
other side is open to the exterior.

Q. Is that a new method of constructing schools in 
so far as the trade is concerned in the building of 
schools?

A. No, sir.



295

Q. How many years would you say it had actually 
been in use?

A. The particular school in Houston here, East- 
wood Elementary School, it is 15 years old or more.

Q. You have actually seen that school yourself?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are there any other older schools here in this 

community that have the outside corridor?
A. I believe Montrose Elementary School.
Q. And you say at the present time you have 

some 12 schools under construction here or which 
have been finished that have the outside corridor?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now—
A. I have a list here of them. Would you like the 

names of them?
Q. Did you bring a list of them from your office?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Read off those in the district.
A. New schools, Oak Forest Elementary, Berry 

Elementary School. Oak Forest is being occupied, 
Berry is under construction.

Horn Elementary School is occupied.

Aldine Westfield is under construction.

San Felipe Post Oak School is under construc­
tion.

Braes Height School is under construction.

Then there is Wesleyan Road.

Eastwood is a school that is being rehabilitated and 
added to.



296

Trinity Gardens is a new school.

Garden Oaks is an old school that there are some 
additions being made to.

Curry Road Area School is in the planning stage.

South Park Addition School is in the planning 
stage.

Q. You have actually been to the sites of all those 
that are finished or are under construction?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. By the way, Mr. Gregg, are there certain trade 

journals in use in the architectural trade showing de­
velopments and applications of procedures to which your 
concern subscribes?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you if the trade journal is known as 

Progessive Architecture is commonly accepted in the 
trade and if from such journal ideas and other 
adaptable suggestions are utilized by the trade from 
that?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. I asked you to bring an issue of that. This is 

the issue of April, 1949, and I ask you if it has a design 
of the open corridor school in it which you can illus­
trate your testimony with?

A. Yes. There is one right here.
Q. And would you tell me what page that design 

is on, Mr. Gregg?
A. Page 54.
Q. Now are you able to illustrate your testimony 

from that design?
A. Yes, sir, It is—



297

Mr. McGregor:
Just a moment. At this time I would like to intro­

duce the design for the purpose of enabling the wit­
ness to illustrate his testimony in reference to the 
construction of the open corridor school.

The Court:
All right. Have it marked.

(The design was marked as “ Defendants’ Exhibit 
37”  for identification.)

Q. I now hand you what has become Defendants’ 
Exhibit 37—

Mr. McGregor:
I am introducing it. Of course, only this design and 

what is there is all that I am introducing, not the 
reading.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 37”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Would you take a pencil, please, and explain 
to the Court the layout there, where the walls are 
solid, where there are doors and where the outlets 
are and the general condition there in that particular 
open corridor school?

A. Here you have what they call a covered corri­
dor. That is, roofed over. You have walls on this 
side of the classrooms and windows on this side. This 
is all open through here where you have, you just 
have what they call a covered corridor.

Q. Where are the toilets?
A. The toilets are at this end and here, girls and 

boys toilets.



298

Q. Now at my request you brought a June, 1949, 
issue of Progressive Architecture and I ask that this 
now be marked.

(The instrument was marked as “ Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 38,”  for identification.)

Q. I ask you if this is another design indicating the 
type of construction of the open corridor type school?

A. Yes, it is. Here is—
Q. Just a moment. Would you be aided in illus­

trating the type of design it is by looking at that 
design?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
I will introduce the Exhibit 38 then in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 38” was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Now will you tell the Court what that particular 
type of design shows, just as you did on Exhibit 37?

A. Covered passage down this side of the build­
ing, doors into the classroom here, windows down 
this side. Toilets at the end here. In this particular 
one you will notice it says: “ Mention: Class 1.”  It 
won a prize—

Q. I don’t know whether they might object to that 
or not. Now then, this type of school, is that the type 
as is shown on Exhibit 38, of any of those that you are 
constructing in the Houston Independent School Dis­
trict?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is also the type that is refused in Exhibit 37 the 

type that is being constructed here. I mean by that,



299

are there, upon occasion, variations put into the de­
sign?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, Mr. Gregg, you have been born and 

raised in Texas and as an architect I will ask you if 
you can tell me what portions of the State of Texas 
you think might be suitable for this type of open 
corridor school construction?

A. I believe that most anywhere except possibly 
in the Panhandle, getting north, where you have se­
vere cold. It could adapt itself very well.

Q. Other than in the Panhandle?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Gregg, if one of the accepted 

trade journals in the architectural profession is the 
Architectural Forum?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it used and resorted to by the architects in 

their regular course of daily business in the expansion 
of their ideas and for the procurement of ideas and 
extension of their own ideas?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you to turn to page 106 of the Octo­

ber, 1949, issue.

(The instrument was marked as “ Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 39,”  for identification.)

Q. I show you what has been marked as Exhibit 
39 and referring only to the picture I ask you if that 
picture is an illustration of the open corridor type 
school construction?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I will ask you if in that particular illus­

tration the school buildings completely surround the 
grounds?



300

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what would you call that area in the 

center here? Would there be any particular name for 
it?

A. Court.
Q. Or any other similar name?
A. Yes.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Exhibit 39 in evidence.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 39”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Now, Mr. Gregg, there are many was to—

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, I wou’t object to it if it is introduced 

for a limited purpose. I don’t know—

The Court:
I understood it is limited to the purpose of aiding 

the witness in illustrating his testimony.

Mr. Durham:
The other was, but in the introduction of this it was 

not so limited.

Mr. McGregor:
I thought I limited it, but if I did not, I meant to.

(An instrument was marked as “ Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 40,”  for identification.)



301

Q. Now from the same trade journal, Architectural 
Forum, I exhibit to you Defendants’ Exhibit 40 and 
with that before you I will ask you, Mr. Gregg, if 
there are not many ways that this type open corridor 
school may be constructed?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Yes. Defendants’ Exhibit 40 has No. 1, 2, 3, 4 

and 5 and Defendants’ Exhibit 40 is only for the pur­
pose of illustration. Describe to the Court the differ­
ent methods of constructing the open corridor school?

A. Well, in No. 1 you have what you call here the 
finger plan, where you have line-ups of buildings with 
the corridor down one side, covered passage, with the 
classrooms on the other.

In No. 2 you have here what you call a double load­
ed corridor where you have classrooms on both 
sides.

In No. 3 it is a similar situation where you have a 
double loaded corridor, classrooms on both sides but 
it is varying here.

And in No. 4 it is rather an experimental thing 
where he is experimenting with a round type school 
with the corridors around a central auditorium.

No. 5 is again a variation of the single type where 
you have a covered passage serving classrooms off to 
the side.

Q. Do any one of those, Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, illus­
trate the type that has been adopted in this com ­
munity ?

A. I think you can find examples of all, possibly 
except No. 4 here.

Q. You can find examples of all of them except 
No. 4. When you say No. 4, you mean No. 4 within 
Exhibit 40?

A. Yes, sir.



302

Mr. McGregor:
I now introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 40.

The Court:
For the same purpose?

Mr. McGregor:
For the same purpose, to illustrate.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 40”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. Mr. Gregg, I hand you here Defendants’ Ex­
hibit 32, which is already in evidence and which pur­
ports to be a ground plan of the school that is illustra­
ted by Defendants’ Exhibit 1 on this elevation. I show 
you here what has been testified to as being a gym­
nasium and a covered corridor through here, this 
being the entrance of Defendants’ Exhibit 1 where 
the small figure and the large figure are coming out, 
the balance of this area being covered by the open 
corridor proceeding on across. Also, the entrance 
here which is shown on Defendants’ Exhibit 1 and 
this opening here. Then the parallel corridor like lines 
being the covered or outside corridor proceeding 
back adjacent to each of the buildings represented by 
the eaves of the roof which you see projecting over 
the elevation. I will ask you if, in your experience and 
in your judgment as an architect, if that is represen­
tative of a typical open corridor type school?

A. It is.
Q. You will see in the center of that drawing a 

space marked “ patio.” I will ask you if that would 
indicate, if that would be an area comparable to the 
type area illustrated in Defendants’ Exhibit 39?

A. Yes.



303

Q. I am not asking you, of course, if it is exactly 
the same size or the same width, height and so forth. 
Now it has been testified here that in this area at the 
back of this long ell and at this area here at the back 
of this long ell are the toilets respectively for the 
girls and the boys. I will ask you whether or not you 
are able to state from your experience as an archi­
tect whether or not that is common and accepted 
practice as to the placing of toilets in that type of 
open corridor school?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I will ask you if, in your judgment, it is 

desirable that they be so placed at the ends of the 
ells?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. In each of those illustrations that were put in 

evidence to illustrate your testimony were the toilets 
in those respective illustrations entered from the cov­
ered walkways?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And from the predicate that I have shown here, 

that these are covered walkways, the same situation 
would exist here, would it not?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all. No further questions.

The Court:
You may cross examine him.

Cross Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Gregg, I believe each of the exhibits that 

have been introduced in evidence by the defendants



304

in the trade journals, Exhibits Nos. 37, 38, 39 and 40, 
showing the buildings and figures which you have tes­
tified about, are constructions shown to be in the State 
of California?

A. I believe that is right.
Q. I believe you stated that in your opinion that 

this open corridor type building was as substantial 
as the enclosed corridor provided the weather was 
fair?

A. I don’t believe I used the word “ substantial.”
Q. Well, what did you use. Maybe I misunderstood 

you.

Mr. McGregor:
Well, I think I will object to that as calling on the 

witness to speculate as to what he said without any 
predicate being laid in any question as to what he may 
have said.

The Court:
Well, the witness said he didn’t say what counsel 

suggested he said. If he can remember, he can an­
swer it.

A. I am sorry. I don’t remember exactly the word 
that I used. I don’t think I said “ substantial.”

Q. Well, I will ask you if you did not say, in re­
sponse to a question from Mr. McGregor, that you 
felt that where the weather was favorable that these 
open corridors were as good as the enclosed corri­
dors?

A. Well, I believe I—if you would ask me, I would 
say I think they are better.

Q. You think they are better. All right. Now, with 
regard to Defendants’ Exhibit No. 37. The figure that



305

you were testifying about on direct examination has 
nothing to prevent water, during a rain or blowing 
rain, from coming upon the walk under the shelter of 
the corridor?

A. That is right.
Q. There is nothing to prevent snow if it is in the 

area where they have snow occasionally from coming 
up on the walk?

A. That is right.
Q. Would you consider that type of corridor in a 

section where they have frequent rain, snow occa­
sionally, to be as safe for school children to pass 
over as a corridor which is enclosed which prevents 
rain and snow from accumulating there?

A. I believe I said that we were doing quite a bit 
of that in Houston and certainly we have quite a bit 
of rain here and occasionally snow. There just haven’t 
been complaints about it at all.

Q. Thank you. Now will you answer my question. 
In your opinion would you say that you consider it 
as safe for school children, in an elementary school, 
passing over that corridor during the condition of 
weather such as I have described to you?

A. Well, tell me again now. Let me ask you a 
question.

Q. I will be glad to. Yes, sir. You may ask me if 
the Court permits.

A. Now I want you to ask me the question again.
Q. I believe you testified that there is nothing to 

prevent rain, if there is rain, blowing rain, from 
getting upon the walk where the children must pass 
in the open corridor from one classroom to another?

A. You have a considerable overhang. You have 
your roof there.

Q. Well, aside from the roof?
A. No, it is open on the side.



306

Q. And likewise it has nothing to prevent snow 
from driving or blowing upon the walk?

A. That is right.
Q. Now in your opinion as an expert, where an 

open corridor is in a position to have water, snow to 
accumulate upon it and children passing over it from 
one classroom to another, would you in your opinion 
as an expert consider that corridor as safe as an 
enclosed corridor?

A. If the conditions were as you stated, if you had 
snow and rain there, I would not think so.

Q. Now, each of the figures that you testified about 
are outside corridors, aren’t they, Mr. Gregg?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many schools have you planned, super­

vised or aided in planning and supervising with an 
open corridor in a building such as counsel has de­
tailed to you on figure 1, this instrument here which 
has been introduced as Defendants’ Exhibit No. 1?

A. How many schools have I—
Q. Planned, drawn a figure for or aided in draw­

ing where the corridor in that building which you 
drew was similar to the corridor in this building?

A. Oh, you mean a covered passage?
Q. No, I was asking about this building.
A. Well, that is what you are talking about in this 

building, a covered passage.
Q. No. I am afraid I might be misleading you. It 

has been testified here that there are four rooms 
across here and the front of this building here it has 
ben testified is a gymnasium?

A. Yes.
Q. That there were old buildings behind here, 

this new structure, and that a corridor, an open cor­
ridor was built between these buildings up against



307

that old portion of the building which was then stand­
ing. Now, how many school plans or drawings, ar­
chitectural drawings, have you drawn or participated 
in drawing of a similar nature to the one here. Give 
those facts.

A. Where I have added on to an existing school 
building with an open type corridor? Eastwood Ele­
mentary School.

Q. Now what type of building was it in the back?
A. I beg your pardon?
Q. The original construction at Eastwood School?
A. It is a masonry building.
Q. All right. Now in the Eastwood building are the 

students compelled to go out of the classroom to reach 
the next classroom?

A. Yes.
Q. Is there any heat in there?
A. In the classroom?
Q. Yes.
A. In the classroom?
Q. In the restrooms and classrooms or between 

the classrooms?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is that a high school or elementary school?
A. Elementary school.
Q- How many combinations of high school and 

elementary schools have you drawn plans for or 
aided in the drawing of plans where there was an 
elementary and high school combined with open cor­
ridor?

A. I may be mistaken but I don’t believe that 
this district has that type combination.

Q- I will ask you if it is not true, Mr. Gregg, that 
the open type corridor is usually used for smaller 
children, getting exercise, and in climates where 
it is tropical or semi-tropical?



308

A. Well, I don’t get your connection between small 
children and climate.

Q. I am talking about where they are of a tender 
age and in such a part of the country where the 
climate is tropical or semi-tropical?

Mr McGregor:
I think there are two questions in one there and I 

object to it. It is misleading to the witness to com­
bine the age of the children and the climate to­
gether. It seems to me it is confusing.

The Court:
He may answer if he can. I don’t know whether he 

can or not.

A. I think that the governing thing there is the 
size of the building. You have several elementary 
schools to one high school. Well now, if you were to 
take a high school which required a larger number 
of rooms and put it out on an open corridor basis, 
then you have to string it considerably all over the 
country, where you can get by with a smaller number 
of rooms with an elementary school. I don’t think 
that the age of the children has anything to do with 
the idea that it is an open corridor school or whether 
it is not an open corridor school. I think it is the 
size of the building required. See, where you have 
several elementary schools serving the feed into one 
high school; you have an area where you have eight 
elementary schools and the children may leave that 
elementary school and go to one high school. That 
one high school has to be big enough to absorb all 
the children from the eight elementary schools. So, in 
turn, it has to be a much bigger building and for it



309

not to be a double loaded corridor or, rather, to be 
a double loaded corridor, it would be too big a build­
ing to have open type corridors.

Q. Now have you, since you have been engaged 
in your profession, ever aided or ever drawn an open 
corridor sketch for a high school?

A. No.
Q. I believe you said in the open corridors you 

have heat in the rooms?
A. Yes.
Q. And the students passing out into an open corri­

dor where it is cold and the heat has been brought up 
to a certain temperature in the room, does that cause 
the temperature to drop in the classroom?

A. Well, naturally.
Q. In the—
A. Wait a minute.
Q. Oh, pardon me.
A. You mean by having a door open out into the 

corridor?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Well, yes. You load your heating more if you 

have a heating element that is capable of taking care 
of that.

Q. What kind of heating element would you use to 
hold the temperature at the same level with the door 
open?

A. They have, well, they have space heaters and 
radiators and things that are controlled by thermo­
stat, and when the temperature drops to a certain 
minimum it throws on the heat.

Q. But that doesn’t hold it at the same level, 
does it?

A. No, no.



310

Q. I don’t believe we have invented any instru­
ment yet—

A. No.
Q. —that will hold the temperature in the room at 

the same level in cold weather with the door open?
A. No.
Q. Do you think the change of temperature for 

children moving from one room to another suddenly 
with the door open will harm the child?

A. I would think so, although I would like to qual­
ify that if I may. I have already stated that our cli­
mate lends itself to this type of building and the 
occasion for cold weather is insignificant enough, I 
believe, that it is better, that the open corridor gives 
you a better building.

Q. You are speaking of Houston, aren’t you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What about LaGrange?
A. Well, it is close enough. I would consider that.
Q. Does it snow in LaGrange?
A. I believe it does. It snows in Houston.
Q. Mr. Gregg, in your opinion as an expert, a 

child leaving a room that had been heated to a certain 
temperature, the room was warm, would leave that 
room and go out into an open corridor without his 
wrap on, passing from one classroom to another, do 
you think it might affect that child?

A. I believe—why wouldn’t he have his wrap on?
Q. If he was required to get his wrap and put it 

on and take it in the other room and unwrap would 
that, in your opinion, consume some time?

A. Well—

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that. Mr. Gregg has only been qualified as 

an architect and he is not presented here to testify



311

as to any physical or other happenings to children 
that might affect their health.

The Court:
I don’t believe it is improper cross examination. 

Objection overruled.
Q. Will you answer the question?
A. Would you mind repeating it?

(Question read.)

A. I don’t believe so.
Q. You think it would not hurt a child to go out 

in the open from a warm room in cold weather with­
out a wrap?

A. No, I said—I understood your question to be, 
would it take some time for him to get his wrap.

Q. Oh. Assuming a child was leaving a classroom 
such as you have described without his wrap and it 
was cold on the outside and he would pass out in the 
cold without his wrap into the next classroom, do you 
think that would affect the child?

A. It might.

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Mr. Gregg, you have stated that you have not 

designed the open corridor plan high school. Presum­
ing that you had anywhere up to 50 or 200 students 
for a high school, reducing the matter to a size below 
that which would be bulky for the plan as you sug­



312

gested, would there be any reason why the open 
corridor plan would not be just as adaptable to the 
high school as to the grade school?

A. No.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all.

The Court:
Are you through with Mr. Gregg?

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all, sir.

The Court:
You may be excused.

C. A. LEMMONS, resumed the stand and testified 
as follows:

Cross Examination (Continued).

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, this is Exhibit 32 I am showing 

you. On that exhibit these rooms across here are for 
the primary students?

A. Yes, they are. Those are the new rooms.
Q. Do those children change rooms or stay in the 

same room all day?
A. They stay in the same room all day except, of 

course, for lunch and recess.



313

Q, Now you testified this morning, as I recall, that 
you had one other school plant in the district known 
as War da?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 29 and ask 

you what that is?
A. This is a photograph of the front of the Warda 

Elementary School and it is a true representation of 
it.

The Court:
Have you seen these pictures?

Mr. Durham:
We have not, Your Honor. I don’t know. Have we? 

Mr. McGregor:
Oh, yes, Mr. Durham. You saw them this morning. 

Mr. Durham:
Oh, yes, we have seen them, Your Honor.

The Court:
All right.

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 30 and ask 
you what that is?

A. This is a photograph of the side of the white 
elementary school building.

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 28 and ask you 
what that is?

A. This is a photograph of the other side of the 
white elementary school.

Q. And I hand you Exhibit 27 and ask you what 
that is?



314

A. This is a photograph of the rear or the back of 
the Warda Elementary School.

The Court:
You are offering them?

Mr. McGregor:
I am offering those in evidence, Your Honor.

The Court:
All right.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 27, 28, 29 and 30” 
ceived in evidence.)

were re

Q . How many grades are in that school, Mr. Lem
mons ?

A. There are four.
Q . And how many rooms?
A. One.
Q . And how many teachers?
A. One teacher.
Q . How many students?
A. Twenty-four enrolled in the white school.

The Court:
How far is that school from LaGrange?

A. It is approximately 10 miles north of LaGrange, 
Your Honor.

Q. What road is it on?
A. It is on the highway leading to Giddings, about 

midway between LaGrange and Giddings.
Q. On Exhibit No. 29, to the right, I see an out­

building there. What is that outbuilding?



315

A. That is a toilet building.
Q. Is there a similar one which is obscured by 

the school?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. Are they ordinary outdoor toilets?
A. They are the ordinary outdoor pit toilets.
Q. One for the girls and one for the boys?
A. Yes.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 26 and ask you 

what that is?
A. That is the classroom in the white school, view 

of the classroom of the Warda School.
Q. And I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 25?
A. That is another view of the—
Q. The same classroom?
A. The same classroom.
Q. And I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 24?
A. That is a view of the drinking fountain in the 

Warda School.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibits 24, 25 and 26.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 24, 25 and 26” received in 
evidence.)

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 6, Mr. Lem­
mons, and ask you where that building is which has 
been identified as the band building?

A. This building is located about midway between 
the white high school building and the new elemen­
tary building.

Q. What is the nature of the building as to con­
struction? What is it built out of?

A. It is a wooden building. It is a regular—I be­
lieve they call it drop siding on the outside and it is



316

a stud wall on the inside, is finished with V-joint pine 
wainscoting and a celutex fiber wainscoting.

Q. Now in your examination in chief you were 
asked about music expenditures. As I recall, you 
stated from your 1948-1949, I believe it was, expendi­
ture sheet, that there was in the inventory how much 
on your music expenditure for the white school?

A. For the white it was $200.00 in the elementary 
school and $800.00 in the high school.

Q. And for the point negro school how much was 
there?

A. $500.00.
Q. In other words, $500.00 to $1000.00?
A. Yes.
Q. These band instruments that are in this picture 

here, how were those instruments procured? That is 
to say, where were the funds received from that aided 
in buying those instruments?

A. The band club that is composed of the parents 
of children who are in the high school band accumu­
lated quite a bit of money used to buy these instru­
ments. In fact, they accumulated all of the money 
that has been used except $500.00.

Q. Do you recall what the total expenditure was, 
roughly?

A. Considering those instruments shown there and 
the other instruments which we had and the uniforms 
which we bought the expenditure ran over $5,000.00.

Q. Now all of that fund was contributed except the 
$500.00, is that correct?

A. Yes.
Q. Now on Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 8, which has 

been identified as the corridor in the Hermes School, 
I will ask you what is on either side of those corri­
dors?

A. There are classrooms.



317

Q. And these are partition walls that are shown 
down that corridor?

A. Yes, they are.
Q. There has been introduced in evidence Plain­

tiff’s Exhibit 11, which shows the outside corridor at 
the Randolph School running east to west.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit No. 41.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 41’ ’ was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 41 and ask if 
you can tell me and show the Court approximately 
where this corridor crosses the corridor in Plain­
tiff’s Exhibit 11?

A. This corridor—which is this?
Q. Defendants’ 41.
A. The corridor on Defendants’ 41 crosses the cor­

ridor on Plaintiff’s 11 just in front of the last door 
which is shown.

Q. In other words, in Defendants’ Exhibit 1 it 
would be the corridor proceeding through this en­
trance?

A. It would.
Q. It would. And there is a ceiling over it and 

walls on either side?
A. There is.
Q. Now in your testimony a few minutes ago you 

testified that Defendants’ Exhibit 32, that when this 
corridor reached this point there were doors?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you see in Defendants’ Exhibit 31 those 

doors and point them out to the Court?



318

A. There are the doors that you see at the end of 
the open area.

Q. And where would they appear on Defendants’ 
Exhibit 32?

A. Right here.
Q. Now is that same condition in existence at this 

other corridor, at this end where it runs down the 
other side of the ell structure?

A. It is.

Mr. McGregor:
I don’t believe I handed that to the Court.

(The photographs were marked as “ Defendants’ 
Exhibits 42 to 54,” inclusive, for identification.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 42 and ask you 
if this opening reflected there is shown on the ele­
vation, Defendants’ Exhibit 1, as the place where the 
small and the large figure are coming out?

A. It is.
Q. And through that corridor there is the roof ex­

tending from the outside and entirely through the cor­
ridor to the width of the classrooms and walled on 
either side, is there not?

A. Yes, I believe there is.

Mr. McGregor:
We introduce that as Defendants’ Exhibit 42.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 42”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce in evidence Defendants’ Exhibit 43.



319

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 43”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I ask you if that is the other opening or corri­
dor which is illustrated also by Defendants’ Exhibit 
41?

A. It is.
Q. The sidewalk has not as yet been put in there, 

has it, Mr. Lemmons?
A. No, it has not.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 44 and ask you 

which end of the building that shows?
A. That shows the front of the gymnasuim and 

part of the west side as is shown on the left hand side 
of this Exhibit No. 1.

Q. The property here on this side of the picture, 
on this side of the picket fence, that is not a part of 
the school property, is it?

A. No, it is not.

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendant’s Exhibit 44. I now also in­

troduce in evidence Defendants’ Exhibits 45 and 46.

(“ Defendents’ Exhibits 44, 45 and 46,”  inclusive, 
were received in evidence.)

Q. I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if that picture, 
Exhibit 45, illustrates what classroom and in which 
school?

A. That illustrates a portion or a part of the voca­
tional agriculture classroom in Randolph Colored 
High School.

Q. Which part?
A. It is the north and west wall, I believe.



320

Q. And what is Defendants’ Exhibit 46?
A. It is another view of the same classroom.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Of the vocational agriculture room in Randolph 

Colored School.
Q. Well, is it a side view, the other end or what?
A. It is a photograph of the west wall and south 

wall and the space in between and it shows the tables 
and the desks and the places for the boys to put their 
books.

Mr. McGregor:
Now I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 51.

( “ Defendants’ Exhibit 51”  was received in evi­
dence.)

Q. I hand you with it Plaintiff’s Exhibit 33 and I 
ask you if they are photographs of identical rooms?

A. They are.
Q. Now in Plaintiff’s 33 there appears to be a wash 

basin lying on the floor. Did you see that wash basin 
lying on the floor?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you see it actually in the building?
A. I saw it on the floor when this photograph was 

made.
Q. You went there with the man who made the 

photograph?
A. I did.
Q. Had you ever seen it on the floor before?
A. I had not.
Q. Did you have it repaired as soon as you dis­

covered it?
A. I saw this wash basin on the floor on Satur­

day, and I had it repaired Tuesday afternoon. That



321

was as soon as I could get a plumber up there to 
make a connection.

Q. When was the last time you had inspected the 
facilities there to see they were all in working order?

A. Probably it was two days before we recessed 
for the Thanksgiving holiday and this photograph of 
the wash basin on the floor was made the Saturday 
following the Thanksgiving holiday.

Q. Every time you had inspected it prior to the 
morning you went there and found it in that condi­
tion had it been in its proper place?

A. It had.
Q. Had it been working?
A. Yes.
Q. Are the plumbing fixtures of the latest and most 

modem design in this washroom and toilet room?
A. They are.
Q. By the way, were you present when that picture

was actually taken?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. And was the taking of that picture after the taking 

of the picture which is represented by Plaintiff’s Exhibit 
33?

A. That is right.

The Court:
I think we will take our recess now. Recess of ten 

minutes.

(Short recess.)

Mr. McGregor:
I ask leave of the Court to cross examine the witness 

with reference to certain cost figures subject to my ob­
jection as to costs.



322

The Court:
All right.

Q. Mr. Lemmons, what was the bid cost on the two jobs 
there in the LaGrange Independent School District. First, 
the amount of the bid cost on the additions to the Randolph 
School and whatever refurbishing came out of that bid 
cost?

A. The bid cost by the construction company on the 
Randolph School which included the gymnasium and the 
four classrooms was $63,733.00 and we add to that extras 
which amounted to $670.72, which, I believe, makes a total 
of $64,403.72.

Q. And what was the bid cost on the Hermes School?
A. The cost of both schools, the Hermes and the Ran­

dolph School, was $173,334.25. Therefore the cost of the 
Randolph School should be subtracted from the last figure 
I gave.

Q. In other words, the Hermes School was roughly 
$110,000.00 and the additions to the Randolph plant were 
roughly $64,000.00?

A. Yes, from Fulcher-Berger Construction Company.
Q. Now in the primary department of the Randolph 

School each one of those roms has how many grades in it?
A. In the elementary division?
Q. Yes.
A. They have one grade to the room.
Q. Is that true in the Hermes School?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. How many rooms are there in the Hermes’ addition?
A. Twelve.
Q. Twelve. I believe I started to ask you just before 

lunch what was the pupil load per teacher on the average 
daily attendance. Have you figured that for me?

A. Yes, I have.



323

Q. What is the teacher load in the elementary school 
at Randolph?

A. I have the teacher load figure for the white system 
as compared to the whole colored system.

Q. All right. Changing the question to apply to the 
whole system, what is the load per teacher at the Ran­
dolph School?

A. Rased on average daily attendance it is 20.1 child 
per teacher.

Q. And what is it in the white system?
A. 22.6 children per teacher.
Q. What is the actual scholastic registration in the dis­

trict in percentages between the negroes and the whites?
A. On the census, the latest census report which I 

have, 1218 white and 516 negroes.
Q. And how does that figure out percentage-wise, 

roughly?
A. It figures roughly 70 per cent white and 30 per cent 

colored.

The Court:
That is a census taken when?

A. Last April, Your Honor. That is a census which we 
are operating on this year.

Q. Now when the Hermes School was open where did 
the pupils come from that were put in the new Hermes 
School?

A. Part of them came from classrooms in the old school 
building. Part of them came from outlying rural schools 
which have been transported in.

Q. In other words, some of the elementary school pupils 
that are now in Hermes came from schools which had been 
previously maintained in outlying localities?

A. Yes, sir.



324

Q. Does the School District still own those outlying 
pieces of lands that their schools were on?

A. We own parts of them. We have sold parts of them.
Q. You have sold parts of them. Where were the stu­

dents that are now in the elementary portion of Randolph 
before the construction of the addition to the Randolph 
School?

A. Some of them were housed in the old portion of the 
Randolph School. Some of them came from outlying schools 
which are now closed.

Q. The cost figures that you gave a while ago in re­
ference to the two buildings, did that include the archi­
tect’s fees?

A. It did not.
Q. Did it include the equipment, the interior equipment 

of the building?
A. No, it did not.
Q. Mr. Lemmons, there is an exhibit which I will ask 

the reporter to give me a tag number for sitting on this 
table.

(The school desk was marked as “Defendants’ Exhibit 
55.” for identification.)

Mr. McGregor:
In the absence of objection I will now introduce this 

in evidence.

(“Defendants’ Exhibit 55” was received in evidence.)

Q. I will ask you what it is, Mr. Lemmons?
A. It is a classroom arm chair with a book compart­

ment in it.
Q. I will ask you if that has been approved by the 

State Board of Education, by the State of Texas?
A. It has.



325

Q. I will ask you if that comes in varying sizes?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. Now you have put on new primary rooms at the 

Randolph School and I will ask you if you have equipped 
those rooms for the pupils with this type of seating accom­
modation?

A. Yes, we have.
Q. Is every room so equipped with that type of seating 

accommodation ?
A. Yes. We bought, I believe, 180 of those chairs and 

they are in the new rooms at the Randolph building.

The Court:
In the new rooms as well as the old rooms?

A. No, they are in the new rooms at the Randolph 
School.

Q. Now that size chair comes from what room?
A. That came from the first grade room.
Q. And you are using that new equipment through 

what grades?
A. Through the first four grades.
Q. What is the opening on the side of Exhibit 55 for?
A. It is for a book compartment for the children to 

place their books and pencils and paper.
Q. I see in front of Exhibit 55 a table like plane struc­

ture. What is that used for?
A. That is used as a desk or a writing surface for 

either reading or writing.
Q. Is that desk arm adjustable?
A. It is. It is adjustable in height and also the angle 

may be adjusted on it, the slope.
Q. In Plaintiff’s Exhibit 30 which has been identified 

as coming from the Hermes School, I will ask you if that 
is the same type desk and chair or if it is a different type 
desk and chair?



326

A. It is a different type desk and chair.
Q. Please tell the Court the difference.
A. The seating equipment in Hermes School is made 

up in units with a desk in front of a chair. The two are 
connected by a cross bar which runs along the floor and is 
supported by four short legs.

Q. The desk itself has four short legs?
A. The whole unit is made up in one unit. There are 

two legs for the desk and two legs for the chair and the 
two are connected by a bar which connects the two leg 
units.

Q. I see. Does this desk adjust out as this desk will 
adjust?

A. No, it does not.
Q. It is therefore a fixed desk?
A. No, this desk has an adjustment on it. You can ad­

just the height of the desk as you can adjust the height of 
the writing service on this chair. You can also make a flat 
plane top on the top of this desk but you do not have the 
degrees of adjustment that you have in that writing arm 
there.

Q. Now this seems to be a bulbous sort of desk there. Is 
that a storage compartment there?

A. It is.
Q. In other words, instead of storing books in this type 

desk in Exhibit 55 in here (indicating under seat) there is 
a storage space underneath the surface of the desk for 
the books?

A. There is.
Q. The desk in Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 30 requires the 

pupil to raise the lid or open the top of it to get his sup­
plies from that desk, is that right?

A. Yes, it does.
Q. I will ask you if this is also an approved desk by 

the State Board of Education?



327

A. Yes, it is.
Q. Now I believe you stated this morning that this land 

was given to this school by Mr. Hermes and that was the 
reason it was named for him?

A. That is correct.
Q. And I will ask you if Mr. Hermes supplied any other 

funds for the erection of this school?
A. He did. He supplied $10,000.00 in cash and stipu­

lated that it be used in building and equipping that school.
Q. And has it been so used?
A. It has.
Q. Now there has been testimony here that you had 

a home economics room in both the negro school, the 
Randolph School, and in the white high school. I will ask 
you if they are equipped with stoves?

A. They are.
Q. Do you recall how many in each?
A. There are four stoves in each.
Q. I will ask you how frequently those stoves are 

replaced?
A. Those stoves are replaced with each model change. 

When the manufacturer changes the model and produces 
a more modern stove. The old stoves are removed and new 
stoves put in.

Q. And is that true in the Randolph School as well as 
in the white school?

A. It is. We obtain the stoves on the same contract 
from the gas company.

The Court:
You use natural gas there?

A. Yes, Your Honor.



328

The Court:
Where does it come from?

A. The gas?

The Court:
Yes.

A. United Gas out at Schulenberg.
Q. Mr. Lemmons, there is some testimony here, I be­

lieve, by the witness Scott in reference to seeing flies in 
the kitchen on one evening when he was there at the PTA.
Are there screens for the gymnasium at the Randolph 
School?

A. The screens for the cafeteria have been delivered 
and they were to be installed this week.

Q. Have they been installed as yet?
A. I don’t know. I have not been there since Monday.
Q. As a matter of fact, there is still some work going 

on in the gymnasium, is there not, in bringing it to full 
completion?

A. Yes, there is. The basket ball goals are being in­
stalled and the screens are being installed.

Q. On the side of the gymnasium at the Randolph 
School shown in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 23, on the right hand 
side there are presently some tables there and it has been 
testified that that is where the students eat. There has 
been introduced here in evidence a picture of a gymnasium 
at the white high school and on one side of it is shown 
some stands which may be used as bleachers, I presume, 
or on which chairs may be placed. What are the plans in 
reference to placing bleachers in this new gymnasium?

A. It is our plan to place bleachers along one side of 
the gymnasium at Randolph School.

Q. You are not going to do it on the other side?
A. No, because the kitchen is on the other side.



329

Q. This side of Exhibit 24 shows where the kitchen is?
A. That is correct.
Q. And so the bleachers will not be placed on that 

side?
A. No.
Q. By the way, Mr. Lemmons, how many students are 

there in the high school portion of the Randolph School?
A. I believe 98 are enrolled in that high school division.
Q. And how many students are there in the high school 

portion of the white high school?
A. 232.
Q. In other words, 98 to 232. Now there are none of 

these new desks in the white high school, are there, Mr. 
Lemmons, Exhibit 55?

A. There are not.
Q. And there are none of the new desks of the type 

exhibited in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 29 in the new white high 
school, are there?

A. There are not.
Q. As to the desks that are in the older portion of the 

Randolph School where they now have the high school, 
please state in your judgment as an educator if they are 
substantially equal to those in the rooms at the Randolph 
High School?

A. Yes, they are. Some of them are as good or better, 
and some of them are worn more. They vary from room 
to room and desk to desk.

Q. Would you say that they are on average about the 
same?

A. I would.
Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 48 and ask you if 

that is a room in the white high school?
A. Yes, it is.



330

Mr. McGregor:
I introduce Defendants’ Exhibit 48.

(“Defendants’ Exhibit 48” was received in evidence.)

Q. I hand you Defendants’ Exhibit 3, which has been 
previously introduced, and ask you if that is a room in 
Randolph School, a portion occupied by the high school?

A. It is a room in the Randolph School. I don’t know 
whether it is one of the rooms occupied by the high 
school or not because it is just a portion of it and I can­
not identify it as a high school room. It is either high 
school or junior high school.

Q. The desks reflected there, are they comparable to 
the desks reflected in Defendants’ Exhibit 48?

A. Yes, they are comparable. They are a different style, 
but they are just as usual.

Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 5 and ask you if that 
is a room in the white high school?

A. It is.
Q. Can you tell me roughly about how old those desks 

are?
A. Those desks are roughly 20 and 25 years old or 

possibly older. I base my opinion on the style of the desk 
and the material from which it is made.

Q. Is that style desk used any more in school?
A. I haven’t seen one for sale.
Q- Is the raised portion of any utility in the modern 

school?
A. Not to my knowledge.

The Court:
Where are those, in the white school?



331

A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. I hand you, Mr. Lemmons, Plaintiff’s Exhibit 36 

and ask you what that picture portrays?
A. That portrays the playground in the rear or back of 

the Randolph Colored School.
Q. And what is the white building to the left of the 

picture?
A. That is the vocational agriculture classroom and 

farm shoproom.
Q. I will ask you what the nature of this land is, as 

to whether or not it is flat or rolling or just what it is?
A. It slopes from the back of the lot down towards the 

gym. We have cut a broad drainage ditch or water pit 
there to carry the water off the playground.

Q. To which direction?
A. To the west of the gymnasium we have cut a drain­

age ditch along the west side of the gymnasium to carry 
the water into the city storm sewer at the end of our prop­
erty.

Q. At the end of the property?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. To the west?
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
I think Your Honor has already seen that.

Q. Now the landscaping that is reflected in Defend­
ants’ Exhibit 1, that has not as yet been done, has it, Mr. 
Lemmons?

A. No, it has not.
Q. Why?
A. Because the landscaping engineer who was doing the 

work told me that it would be better to wait until the fall 
of the year and reset those plants during the dormant



332

stages rather than set them up in September when it 
was still hot, and we would get better results if we 
waited till fall.

Q. Is there any planting planned within the patio 
or behind the building?

A. The patio has been landscaped and planted with 
shrubbery, ivy and grass.

Q. Is there any planting planned presently for the 
back of the school?

A. There is some planting planned alongside the open 
corridor between the gymnasium and the old building

Q. I see.
A. And we are planning to grade the playground in 

the rear of the building.
Q. That area that you just heretofore referred to is 

between this ell and the old building and this portion of 
the gymnasium?

A. For the planting?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, but it would be on the other end of the gym 

right alongside the walkway.
Q. I see. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 20, Mr. Lem­

mons, and ask you if you recognize that?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is that room used for?
A. This room is used for two purposes. The back 

portion of the room is used for a bus repair shop where 
the school mechanic repairs the school busses. The other 
portion of the room is used to refinish school furniture.

The Court:
At the Randolph School?

A. No, sir, that is at the white high school. That is in 
a separate building between the white high school and 
the Hermes School.



333

Q. Is it on the grounds of the old high school property 
or is it on the grounds of the property given by Mr. 
Hermes for the Hermes School?,

A. It is on the ground of the old high school property.
Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 16 and point out the 

framed matter on the wall there, facing the camera, 
and ask you what those are?

A. Those are photographs. Some of them are photo­
graphs of prize winning hogs and the bulletin board also 
has the ribbons and the awards and the pennants which 
were won by the boys who entered the hogs in various 
local shows.

The Court:
What school is that?

A. This is the white school building, vocational build­
ing.

Q. In other words, those are the things that the boys 
or students themselves won or put there?

A. Yes.
Q. They were not put there by the LaGrange In­

dependent School District?
A. No.
Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 3 which purports to 

be a picture of the white high school and ask you what 
this is in this picture?

A. That is a volley ball court, net and upright posts.
Q. Do you have a volley ball net for the Randolph 

School?
A. Yes, we do.
Q. Where is it?
A. It is located on the playground directly to the back 

of the gymnasium.



334

Q. And what is this over here to the right in that pic­
ture?

A. That is a part of the tennis court.
Q. Is there more than one court there or just one?
A. There are two courts there.
Q. What are they built out of?
A. Concrete.
Q. Are they the only two courts in the whole system?
A. Yes, they are.
Q. I hand you another view of the white high school 

and ask you what this is here?
A. That is an old bench laid across a frame or an up­

right pipe structure which was formerly used for a seesaw.
Q. I see. And what is this?
A. That is a swing.
Q. One seesaw and one swing. Is that all that there is 

on that yard, on that school grounds?
A. Well, there are a number of trees.
Q. I mean of that type equipment?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. There is not anything else like that on any part 

of that ground?
A. There are—you mean the grounds shown in the 

photograph or the—
Q. The white ground?
A. Yes. There are a series of swings. The leg of one 

of them is shown right here in the lower left hand corner 
of this photograph.

Q. How many are in that series?
A. I believe there are six.
Q. So you have seven swings on that ground. Are there 

any more than that?
A. That is all that I know of, I believe.
Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 4, which has been 

testified to as being a corridor of the white high school,



335

and on the right hand side of that corridor I point out to 
you some objects which have been testified to as being 
steel lockers. What is the present thinking in the use of 
steel lockers in public schools?

A. We have found that it is more practical for the 
children to hang their clothing and their other—well, their 
hats and their shoes, in the classrooms on hooks where 
they will be open and so we get ventilation on them and 
dry them out if they are moist, wet.

Q. What happens to them if they are put in lockers?
A. Well, they remain wet all day because there is 

very little ventilation in a steel locker. They build up an 
odor over a period of time until it creates more or less 
an unsanitary condition and surely an odor which is not 
pleasing to have in a school corridor or school building.

Q. In all your new construction are you putting in 
any such type locker?

A. We are not.
Q. Are any of your plans for any future improvements, 

betterments or construction, do they include for either 
the white schools in the district or the colored school in 
the district the acquisition of such a type locker?

A. Not a steel locker, no.
Q. And that is true, is it, Mr. Lemmons, whether it is 

elementary or high school?
A. Yes.
Q. I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 21 and ask you what 

that is?
A. That is a part of the farm workshop at the negro 

high school.
Q. And I will ask you what that closet there contains?
A. That contains tools and equipment which is used by 

the students taking vocation agriculture in this school.
Q. What type tools are supplied for that course in 

the Randolph School?



336

A. They are supplied with all of the hand tools which 
are needed to do repair work to build simple houses and 
gates and feeders that are used on the farm.

Q. Is a similar course given in the white high school?
A. It is.
Q. And where is it given?
A. It is given in a separate building, vocational agricul­

ture building, on the grounds of the white high school.
Q. Do they have similar tools?
A. Their tools are not as new as these and they do not 

have as many of them. I bought, or the school district 
rather, bought these tools that are used by the colored stu­
dents last spring, I believe. They have not been in use but 
three or four months and at that time we bought all of 
the tools which the vocational agriculture teacher in the 
negro school needed, which he said he needed.

Q. In other words, you filled the requisition that he 
sent to you?

A. Yes.
Q. I hand you Plaintiffs Exhibit 17 and ask you what 

room that is a part of?
A. That is a part of the classroom for teaching voca­

tional agriculture in the Randolph Colored School.
Q. Now, on yesterday Mr. Jackson, the teacher of that 

course in the Randolph School, testified that there was 
a circulating heater there of some type similar to that 
which is found in the gymnasium at the Randolph School 
to be installed in that room and to do away with the type 
of heating that is there now.

Now I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, as being in charge 
of the LaGrange Independent School System, if there 
is a heater to be put in that room?



337

A. There is.
Q. And if it is to be installed in the near future?
A. Yes, it will be.
Q. Is it just one of those items that you have not 

gotten to?
A. That is correct.
Q. Mr. Lemmons, during your present school year, how 

many students do you have taking typewriting in the 
Randolph School?

A. I have 18.
Q. Divided into how many classes?
A. Two classes.
Q. How long is each class?
A. One class period is a 45 minute class period. The 

other class period is an hour class period.
Q. Now what time of day is the first period in type­

writing?
A. From 8:15 until 9:00 o’clock.
Q. When is the other one?
A. The second one is from 1:30 until 2:00 o’clock. I 

beg your pardon, from 1:50 until 2:50.
Q. I see. And the typing class uses the room which is 

shown in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 15?
A. Yes, sir, they do.
Q. And that also is the room utilized for the library?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time does the elementary school take up in 

the morning, Mr. Lemmons?
A. About 8:30 or 8:40. I have forgotten which.
Q. And what time does the elementary school let out 

in the afternoon?
A. About 3:45 in the afternoon.
Q. Do you divide up your high school work into library 

periods for the students in the high school portion of the 
work at Randolph?

A. Yes, it is.



338

Q. Does the use of the room there for the two typing 
classes at the time you say prevent you from getting in 
the necessary number of library periods for the 90 high 
school students?

A. No, it does not.
Q. There was handed to you what has oeen marked as 

Plaintiff’s Exhibit 39 which seems to be a letter from Mr. 
W. J. Durham with some sort of instruma it attached. 
That was never inquired about, was it, Mr. Lemmons?

A. No.
Q. Now on yesterday you were asked about the value 

of school property which was recapitulated on what seems 
to be page 11 of your 1948-1949 school year report. I will 
ask you if that is not in the nature of what is called a 
running inventory?

A. It is.
Q. In other words, this does not represent current ex­

penditures on page 11 at all?

Mr. Durham:
Now, Your Honor, we object to that as being leading 

and suggestive. That is an intelligent witness and—

Mr. McGregor:
This is cross examination.

Mr. Durham:
He is an adverse witness, Your Honor.

The Court:
I think that is leading.

Mr. McGregor:
Very well, Your Honor.



339

Q. On page 11 of Plaintiff’s Exhibit 38 I will ask you 
to look at column No. 1 and advise me whether there 
are any current expenditutres represented on there?

A. There are not. That represents an accumulation of 
expenditures over a long period of years.

Q. An accumulation of expenditures, you say?
A. For property that represents the cost or the value 

which has been assigned to the property over a long period 
of years. These figures are inserted each year by re­
ferring back to the last year’s report and being brought up 
to date.

Q. Well, for example, here, this item $2,000.00, column 
No. 1. Do you personally recall what that item was put 
in there to cover?

A. No, I don’t.
Q. The item $10,100.00. Do you know what that item 

was put in there to cover?
A. No. It covers part of the, probably, some of the old 

furniture which was already in the plants and probably 
some of the new furniture which was bought.

Q. May it also represent donations to the school?
A. It could.
Q. Would they be included in those totals had there 

been donations?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, we object to this type of testimony as 

being speculative. It may have been or may not have 
been. It has no probative force as to what it could be or 
may have been.

The Court:
I think he may answer it if he can.

A. Would you repeat the question?



340

Mr. McGregor:
Would you read the question, please?

(Question read.)

A. That all depends on what the donation was for. If it 
were for property which would be used year in, year out, 
durable property, it would appear in there, but if it was 
for property which would be consumed in a year or so, 
like a library book or something that would be used up in 
a short time, it should not appear in that column.

Q. In other words, if you received donations of books 
to your library would you or would you not put that 
in one of these columns?

A. I don’t believe I would put them in one of these 
columns.

Q. Now in item 22 on page 11, Exhibit 38, I see item 
No. 1, number of school desks and what is shown in refer­
ence to the number of useful desks?

A. 750 for white and 500 for colored.
Q. There was introduced on yesterday Plaintiff’s Ex­

hibit 37 and on page 11 of this Plaintiff’s Exhibit 37 
the same type of columns are shown.

A. They are.
Q. And they represent expenditures over the years or 

acquisitions of property over the years as you testified in 
reference to Exhibit 38?

A. Yes. They represent the property inventory which 
is accumulated over a period of years.

Q. What else does Exhibit 37 contain on its other 
pages?

A. It contains a listing of the teachers, their salaries 
and training in the white school. A listing of the certifica­
tion of the teachers in the white school. The experience 
and tenure of white teachers. Grade distribution of the



341

children in the white school. The attendance table for 
children in the white school and the colored school. 
Teacher’s position, salaries and training for colored 
teachers, certifications of colored teachers, the experience 
and tenure of colored teachers, grade distribution of 
children in the colored school and the attendance report 
of children in the colored school. A listing of buildings in 
use, listing of private schools and enrollments in schools 
in the Independent District.

Q. Now do you have the salaries there of the white and 
colored teachers?

A. No, I don’t have that with me.
Q. Before the Court meets in the morning, will you 

get the salaries of the white and colored teachers and aver­
age those salaries up and be prepared to testify as to how 
the salaries of the teachers compare.

Now does this report show the number of students 
graduated from the negro high school in the year 1947- 
1948?

A. Yes, it does.
Q. How many were graduated?
A. Eleven.
Q. How many actually attended this senior class of 

the high school that year?
A. I believe only 11 attended that year.
Q. And they all graduated?
A. I believe so, yes.
Q. How many attended the senior class of the white 

high school that year?
A. Fifty-five.
Q. How many graduated?
A. Fifty-five.
Q. In the school year 1948-1949 how many attended 

the senior class in the colored school?
A. Fourteen.



342

Q. How many graduated?
A. Well, there were 14 enrolled and 13 were graduated. 
Q. And how many attended the senior class at the 

white high school during that year?
A. Fifty-one were enrolled throughout the year.
Q. And how many graduated?
A. Thirty-nine.
Q. Thirty-nine graduated out of 51?
A. That is right.
Q. Can you tell me how many are enrolled in the 

senior high school at LaGrange, Randolph High School, this 
year in the senior class?

A. No. I don’t have those figures with me.
Q. Will you bring them in the morning, please?
A. I believe I can get it.

The Court:
Do you have any idea about how many of white 

graduates for this year, for instance, and how many of the 
colored graduates went on to college, University or some 
higher schools?

A. In the white school there were about 35 per cent 
of them, Your Honor, and I am not familiar with the 
number in the colored school because the principal sends 
those transcripts out. I don’t know how many of them 
went to college.

The Court:
Do you know whether any of them did?

A. Yes, I am sure that—I believe three that I know of.

The Court:
I see.



343

Mr. McGregor:
You are referring, Your Honor, to the year ending June, 

1949?

The Court:
Yes, sir.

Q. Perhaps you could have that information for us 
tomorrow?

A. I believe I can.

The Court:
Well, it is not of any great deal of importance, but I was 

just wondering. One important feature about an educa­
tion, about a school, is how many go on and finish their 
education.

Mr. McGregor:
Excuse me just a second, Your Honor.

May I have the Plaintiff’s first amended petition, please. 
May I have leave of the Court to mark Plaintiffs first 
amended original complaint as an exhibit?

The Court:
You can, but the instructions to the Court reporter 

would be not to take it out of the clerk’s possession.

(Plaintiff’s first amended original complaint was marked 
as “Defendants’ Exhibit 56,” for identification.)

Mr. McGregor:
Yes, sir.



344

Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, Defendants’ Exhibit No. 56, the 
first amended original complaint of the plaintiff herein 
states that there is a public address system supplied in 
the white school at LaGrange. Is that true?

A. It is.
Q. And just what does that system do?
A. That system has a radio, a phonograph and a public 

address system assembled in one unit in my office with 
speaker outlets in each of the rooms in the old high school 
building and the gymnasium and the shop building. It 
has an extension microphone which is installed in the 
auditorium, gymnasium out there, and I believe it has 33 
outlets in the various rooms. We can put a radio program 
on or phonograph music or anything from a phonograph 
record into any one or all the rooms at one time. We can 
use it for a call system, that is, a public address system or 
anything of that nature.

Q. How did the LaGrange Independent School System 
acquire that?

A. That was donated to us by Mr. George Lauderstein 
of LaGrange.

Q. Exhibit 56 states there is an automatic electric sig­
nal clock at the white school at LaGrange. Is there an 
automatic electric signal clock in the Randolph School?

A. There is.
Q. Is there one in the white school?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. Plaintiff’s Exhibit 56 says that there is an elec­

tric fire bell in the white school at LaGrange. Is 
there an electric fire bell?

A. There is. Not.
Q. Defendants’ Exhibit 56 in stating that there is 

an electric fire bell in the white school does not 
state what kind of a fire warning system there is in 
the Randolph School. What kind of fire warning sys­
tem is there in the Randolph School?



345

A. There is a gong which has been made by taking 
the hub from an automobile tire or automobile wheel 
rather, and mounting it on the wall, and a hammer 
which has been made by taking a large nut and 
attaching it to a wooden stick to make an arrange­
ment very similar to a hammer. It is attached to the 
assembly so it will stay right with the assembly 
with a chain, I suppose, about two feet long.

Q. And how would you operate that fire alarm?
A. You would take your hammer and hit the 

gong or the drum.
Q. That is a drum instead of a hub?
A. Yes. It is really a brake drum.
Q. That is the same thing as you have got in the white 

school, is it, Mr. Lemmons?
A. That is true.
Q. I asked you this morning if during the time that 

you had been at the LaGrange Independent School Dis­
trict in your present capacity whether or not you had de­
clined to give any students other than Vivian Brown a 
course which was requested of you. As I recall, your an­
swer was that you had not?

A. I believe at that time you were referring to colored 
students who made requests for courses.

Q. You are absolutely right. And was your answer 
that you had not?

A. That is right. I never did.
Q. Since the application of Vivian Brown for the 

chemistry course on December 5, 1947, have you received 
any other application of any kind or character for a course 
in the Randolph High School by any Negro child?

A. No, I have not.
Q. Has it been necessary from time to time in the Ne­

gro high school to decline to give what are known as the 
elective courses?



346

A. I don’t recall declining to give one of those courses. 
The application of Vivian Brown was the only application 
that has ever come to me from a student in the Randolph 
Colored School.

Q. Well, I have gone over now to the white high school. 
Have you ever declined an application for one of the elec­
tive courses?

A. Oh, yes. Yes, sir.
Q. In the white high school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I am sorry, I confused you. Then there have been 

occasions in the white high school where you have de­
clined to supply elective courses to a pupil because it was 
not, or whatever the reason was that you could not give 
that pupil that course?

A. Yes. I declined to give a course in first year Ger­
man, to, I believe, five or seven students in the white 
school this year because the class was too small to be, 
well, economically feasible.

Q. Now how many janitors do you have for the unit 
over at the white school?

A. I have two full time janitors and two part time 
janitors.

Q. And when do the part time janitors work?
A. One of them comes to work at 9:00 o’clock in the 

morning and works until 3:30, and the other one comes 
to work at 4:00 o’clock in the afternoon and works till 6:00 
or 6:30, or until he finishes sweeping.

Q. How many do you have at the Randolph School?
A. I have two full time janitors at the Randolph 

School.

Mr. McGregor:
Take the witness.



347

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, in 1947 and 1948 you required the 

Negro school teachers to do the janitor work, didn’t you?
A. For two or three months at that time we did.
Q. And I believe during that period of time you paid 

out for janitorial service at the white school, that year, 
$1,500.00 for the janitorial service in the white school, and 
$180.00 for the janitorial service in the Negro school?

A. That is probably right.
Q. Did you ever require, during that period of time, 

the white teachers to do janitorial service in order to hold 
a job?

A. Yes.
Q. And you had white teachers serving as janitors 

down in the white school?
A. In all of the outlying schools the white teachers 

were charged with the responsibility of keeping the school 
clean.

Q. I will confine my question to the city limits of City 
of LaGrange.

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that question. This is a suit against the La- 

Grange Independent School District.

The Court:
He can inquire as to any one part at a time.

Q. Now, confining my question to the schools located 
within the confines of the city limits of LaGrange, did you 
require white teachers to serve as janitors in order to hold 
their jobs?

A. If I recall, the yare required to supervise the pick­
ing up of paper on the playground, supervise the picking



348

up of paper in the classrooms and keeping the buildings 
and grounds up.

Q. Now, as an educator, in your mind, is there any dis­
tinction between the teacher in school and the janitor?

A. Well, yes. They have got to work together, though, 
to operate an efficient school system.

Q. Now, the same white persons that you have em­
ployed as janitors in the white school, did you have them 
employed as teachers?

A. Of course not.
Q. Now the same persons you had employed in the 

Negro school, you directed those to do the janitor service, 
didn’t you?

A. I did not. I had them supervise the picking up of 
paper by the Negro children.

Q. Now did you have any other persons to clean up 
the playground in the Negro school during the same 
period of time except the Negro teachers?

A. No, we didn’t have any.
Q. And that includes the buildings, too, that were used 

for the Negro school?
A. Sure. They operated just like the outlying white 

schools did.
Q. Now you testified that there was a school located 

for white students, pupils, at Ellinger I believe?
A. I did.
Q. Negro students are not permitted to attend that 

school?
A. No.
Q. Solely on account of their color?
A. On account of the constitution of Texas.
Q. I say, no Negro student is permitted to attend that 

school?
A. No.



349

Q. And he is refused the right to attend that school 
because he is a Negro?

Mr. McGregor:
Well, I think that is a conclusion of law which is sup­

ported by the constitution and the statute. The question 
is argumentative.

The Court:
He can answer it if he can.

A. I have answered it twice, Your Honor. No, they 
are not allowed to attend the white school.

Q. Thank you. Now at the time the Negro rural schools 
were abolished, did any Negro pupils or students live in 
the rural area?

A. Yes.
Q. Did any live in the Ellinger community?
A. I believe that when that school was closed there 

were only 12 or 14 attending that school.
Q. Twelve or 14 Negro children?
A. Yes.
Q. Attending the rural school?
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. Now what became of those children?
A. They were furnished bus transportation from their 

homes to the Randolph School in LaGrange.
Q. And the white children, those in the elementary 

grades from the first grade on to the eighth, were permit­
ted to attend a school there at Ellinger?

A. The white children?
Q. The white children?
A. Yes.
Q. The bus that picked them up at their homes had 

regular schedules for picking them up, did it not?



350

A. It did.
Q. And the children had to go to the highway and wait 

for the bus, that is, the Negro children?
A. No. The bus which transports the Negro children 

starts on his route down below Ellinger right near the 
center of that colored community down there and he picks 
up most of the children near their homes.

Q. That is what I say. They come to a point for the 
bus to pick them up?

A. They come to a point closest to the road.
Q. Closest to the road. Now did you build any shel­

ters for the children to protect them from the elements, 
the weather, during the rainy season at the points where 
the busses were to pick them up?

A. No. They are picked up at their individual gates.
Q. And during the rainy season there is no shelter or 

protection furnished by the Independent School Board 
for the protection of those children from the elements or 
the weather while they are waiting on the bus, the Negro 
children?

A. That is correct. There are none.
Q. The white children in that same vicinity are per­

mitted to go directly to a school located in that paritcular 
vicinity for white children?

A. Yes.
Q. Now the Negro children from the Ellinger commu­

nities, they are compelled to travel approximately 11 
miles to LaGrange in order to reach a school?

A. That is right.
Q. To which they are permitted to go?
A. That is right.
Q. Thank you. Now there were Negro children in the 

Warda community, too, weren’t there, Mr. Lemmons?
A. No, there was never a Negro school out there to my 

knowledge.



351

Q. Well, there were some Negro citizens living in that 
particular area?

A. I believe so. I believe there were only four or pos­
sibly six students of scholastic age out there. I am not 
sure of the number.

Q. To be exactly correct, to refresh your memory, 
weren’t there six children out there?

A. It may be six. Four or six. A small number.
Q. Now the Warda School that you have testified about 

is operated out of tax money and by the Independent 
School District?

A. Yes.

The Court:
I think we will adjourn until 9:30 in the morning.

Mr. McGregor:
May it please the Court, may I ask leave of the Court to 

permit me to examine Plaintiffs Exhibits 37 and 38 over 
tonight?

Mr. Durham:
That will be fine.

The Court:
That is all right.

(Adjourned at 4:30 p. m.)

December 8, 1949, 9:30 A. M.

The Court:
Be seated, gentlemen.

You may proceed in the case on trial.



352

C. A. LEMMONS resumed the stand and testified as fol­
lows:

Re-Direct Examination— (Continued).

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, you are the same Mr. C. A. Lemmons 

that was on the witness stand when the Court adjourned 
yesterday?

A. I am.
Q. I believe you testified that there were six Negro 

students in the Warda School at the time the Negro 
school was abolished?

A. No. I believe I testified that there were six Negro 
students out there now. The Negro school in the Warda 
Common School District was abolished before the Warda 
Common School District became a part of the LaGrange 
Independent School District.

The Court:
What was that again?

A. The Negro school in the Warda Common School 
District was abolished before the Warda Common School 
District was consolidated and became a part of the La- 
Grange Independent School District.

The Court:
There is no school there at all you mean?

A. There was no colored school there when it became 
a part of the LaGrange Independent School District. It is 
now a part of the LaGrange Independent School District.

Q. After the Warda Common School District became a 
part of the LaGrange Independent School District I be­



353

lieve you continued and you are continuing now a school 
building and school facilities in the Warda School area for 
white children between the grades of 1 and 8 or 1 to 8?

A, No. That is between the grades of 1 and 4.
Q. 1 and 4, thank you. Now there are not any school 

facilities in the Warda community for the six Negro chil­
dren?

A. No.
Q. I believe a bus picks those children up?
A. It does.
Q. And it takes those children to a school located 

within the city limits of the City of LaGrange and known 
as the Randolph School?

A. It does.
Q. Approximately what distance is it from the Warda 

community and where those Negro children live to the 
Randolph School located in the city limits of the town of 
LaGrange?

A. I believe it is about 13 miles.
Q. Approximately 13 miles?
A. Approximately 13 miles.
Q. Now does the bus go out in the morning and pick 

up the children?
A. The bus driver lives at the end of the line. Four of 

those children are his children. The bus leaves his house 
in the morning and then proceeds to LaGrange.

Q. And it picks up two other children?
A. It does.
Q. Now those children go over to the road or highway 

where the bus passes?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there any shelter to protect these children from 

rain, snow and cold weather?
A. No, there is not.



354

Q. And does it rain during the school season down 
there?

A. Yes.
Q. You have snow occasionally?
A. We have had snow twice in the past three years.
Q. Twice in the past three years. What time does the 

bus leave down at the Warda community in the morning, 
Mr. Lemmons?

A. I believe it leaves between 7:15 and 7:30 o’clock in 
the morning.

Q. Just approximately that is?
A. Yes.
Q. The school opens in LaGrange at what time, the 

Randolph Colored School?
A. At 8:30.
Q. The children are brought in to the school in the 

bus?
A. They are.
Q. In the evening, what time does the bus leave La- 

Grange going back?
A. Approximately 3:45 in the afternoon.
Q. What time does school dismiss in the afternoon at 

LaGrange?
A. At 3:45.
Q. Then the bus is standing waiting for the children to 

come out of the school?
A. Yes.
Q. And it takes them home over the same route?
A. Yes.
Q. Was the construction started on the Hermes Ele­

mentary School before the repairs were started on the 
Randolph School?

A. No. We started the repairs at the Randolph School 
in the summer of 1948, I believe, when we remodeled the 
interior of the school and repainted all the walls and the 
ceilings and repainted the partitions in the rooms.



355

Q. When the repairs were started in the Randolph 
School I believe the other Negro schools over the country 
were abolished?

A. No. Some of them were left in operation until the 
close of the past school year.

Q. Until the close of the past year, 1947-1948?
A. No, 1948-1949.
Q. All right. Now I believe you testified yesterday, 

Mr. Lemmons, that the selection of the books in the li­
brary for Negro students, that is, in the Randolph School 
was done by the principal?

A. Well, that is done by the teachers. The teachers 
make their recommendations to the principal and, of 
course, the librarian in the high school makes her recom­
mendations based on the information she has from the 
State Department of Education, and he assembles an order 
and brings it to me.

Q. Now that is done for each school?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have a librarian in the high school known 

as the LaGrange High School for white?
A. Yes.
Q. Full time librarian?
A. She is a part time librarian and part time study 

hall keeper. She keeps all the study halls except one 
period a day and during that period she teaches girls 
physical education.

Q. And you have examined into her credentials to de­
termine her qualifications as a librarian?

A. Yes.
Q. And it is your opinion that she is fully qualified 

academically as a librarian. That is in the white school?
A. No. She is as well qualified as I could find at the 

particular time when we organized our library and put 
on the modern library practice which we follow in our



356

schools. She does not have a high school certificate. She 
is teaching on an elementary certificate but she has some 
library science and the State Department of Education has 
given me permission to use her until such time as she can 
go to school in the summer and meet the requirements.

Q. Yes. Now she has had some training in library 
science?

A. Yes.
Q. Now as to the Negro school, the Randolph School, 

is there any librarian?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that?
A. There are two women over there who are qualified, 

I believe. The one now serving is a Mrs. Duvall.
Q. Mrs. Duvall?
A. Yes.
Q. You have examined her credentials?
A. I have.
Q. Now has she had any training in library science?
A. I don’t recall whether she has or not. She is work­

ing with a Miss Moore who has had training in library 
science.

Q. And Mrs. Duvall is the librarian over there?
A. They are working together. I don’t know which 

one is designated as the librarian. They change from 
period to period. It is a smaller school and when one of 
them is in the classroom the other takes care of the li­
brary.

Q. Thank you. Now as superintendent of the LaGrange 
Independent School District, don’t you have a record of 
the assignment of the teachers as furnished you by the 
principal?

A. I do.
Q. Can you tell me now from that assignment which 

teacher you say has been assigned as a librarian in the 
Negro school?



357

A. Roberta Moore is assigned to the library in the 
Negro school.

Q. And it is not Mrs. Duvall?
A. No. She keeps study hall in there and checks out 

books for Miss Moore when Miss Moore is not in there.
Q. What other assignment is given Miss Moore?
A. She teaches English in the high school.
Q. How many hours does she give to classroom work?
A. Four hours.
Q. How many hours does she give to library service?
A. Two.
Q. Two hours. Now during the time she is in the class­

room is any librarian or the service of any librarian fur­
nished the children in the Negro school?

A. From 11:00 to 12:00 o’clock Mrs. Duvall is assigned 
to the office and takes care of the library and from 12:50 
to 1:50 o’clock she is on the same assignment.

Q. Thank you. I believe, Mr. Lemmons, that it is 
necessary, in order that the child gets the full benefit of 
library service, that the library be available to the stu­
dents at all times during school hours?

A. Not necessarily. The children can go to the library 
when it is open and check out whatever books they need 
for their particular study.

Q. It is of educational value for the child to have the 
benefit and advice of a librarian in even selecting the 
reading matter. Isn’t that true, Mr. Lemmons?

A. It would be, yes.
Q. Yes. I will ask you if in the library it is not a fact 

that you have reference books that cannot be taken out 
and must be left there for the benefit of the entire school 
body and must be available at all times?

A. Yes. There are encyclopedias and dictionaries 
which are not checked out to be taken home. However,



358

the teachers may check them out to be used in their 
rooms for classroom reference work.

Q. The children in high school, they use the library 
not when they are in the classroom, for reference work, 
don’t they?

A. In some instances, yes.
Q. Now if a class is being taught and I believe you 

have testified there is a class taught in the room desig­
nated for the Negro library?

A. Yes.
Q. Do you think that interferes with the free use of the 

library for the Negro children?
A. Yes. It is not used during those periods.
Q. Then the Negro library is not open at all times to 

the students?
A. No.
Q. And there is no class had in the library of the white 

school?
A. No, but there is study hall kept in it for every 

period.
Q. And that study period is where students can go in 

and use the facilities of the library?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you believe that the free use of a library where 

the students can come in and have a study period at any 
and all times of the day and especially during class 
periods, is that of any educational value?

A. It is in a large system where you have two or three 
or four hundred students, but you only have 50 to 100 or 
possibly 125, and the volumes are available to them 
enough so that it does not make a material difference.

Q. Well, you have got more than 300 students in the 
Negro school, haven’t you?

A. Not in the high school division.



359

Q. Well, do the elementary school students use the li­
brary at all?

A. I believe Junior High uses it, but in the elementary 
division the teachers have library book shelves in their 
particular rooms and they take the books to the rooms 
and supervise the use of them in the elementary classroom 
work.

Q. Is that done in the white school?
A. It is.
Q. You also have a library in the white elementary 

school, known as the Hermes School, don’t you, Mr. Lem­
mons?

A. Yes, we do.
Q. I believe yesterday you said that the library in par­

ticular was built up or supported by a per capita assess­
ment on the student body up until about a year ago?

A. That is right.
Q. I believe you further said that the money was col­

lected by the principal of each school?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was kept separate. Now, after you collected 

the money and before you spent it, where did you keep 
it?

A. For the white school it was kept in the First Na­
tional Bank at LaGrange.

Q. Have you got the deposit slip or book?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Would you get that, please, and also where you kept 

the money collected from the Negro school?
A. That was kept by the Negro principal. I don’t know 

where he kept it.
Q. That is, the Negro principal kept the money?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what he did with it?
A. He was instructed to buy library books with it.



360

Q. Did he do that?
A. I know of my own knowledge he bought some 

books. He never gave me an accounting of expenditures.
Q. You don’t know what he spent the money for?
A. No.
Q. But you do supervise the spending of the per capita 

money from white children and you saw that the books 
were actually purchased with the money raised?

A. Yes.
Q. And as far as you know now the money that was 

collected from the children under your direction as super­
intendent for the purpose of buying library books in the 
Negro school, you don’t know whether it was spent for 
that purpose?

A. I know some of it was spent for it. I have seen 
books come in, have checked the lists. But the colored 
school principal wanted to buy the books and check them 
in so I let him go ahead.

Q. But you didn’t check to see whether or not the 
money was actually spent for the books as collected?

A. Well, not penny for penny, no.
Q. And you don’t know what books were purchased, if 

any?
A. Not without referring to the files kept in the li­

brary.
Q. Did you keep a list of the books purchased by the 

white library?
A. The white librarian keeps that list.
Q. Is that under your supervision?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you keep a record and how do you know 

now the volumes that are in the Negro library when you 
kept no record of it?

A. The Negro principal keeps the record and on his 
principal’s report to me at the end of each year he shows 
the number of volumes which are in his library.



361

Q. But as far as your own knowledge is concerned you 
don’t know whether they are there or not, do you?

A. I have not counted them.
Q. Then when you testified with reference to the num­

ber of volumes in the Negro library that is based solely 
upon what the Negro principal told you?

A. Yes.
Q. The item on Plaintiff’s Exhibits No. 37 and 38, 

which are the annual reports that you filed with the State 
Superintendent the number of volumes in the Negro li­
brary is listed in those exhibits and that number was 
based upon the same information as you have testified you 
got from the Negro principal?

A. Yes. He sent me that information on his report.
Q. During the period of time that you were collecting 

this money and directing it to be collected from Negro 
students, you were acting as the superintendent of the La- 
Grange Independent School District?

A. Yes.
Q. And you were acting under orders of the Board of 

Trustees?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, if you will, will you get us the deposit slip, the 

bank book, showing the deposit of money that you ac­
quired per capita for library facilities?

Now, Mr. Lemmons, do you have the years listed there 
and the amounts collected each year?

Mr. McGregor:
Well, Counsel, I understood you restricted your inquiry 

to after 1946.

Mr. Durham:
That is right. I said 1946.



362

A. These are for 1947 and 1948.
Q. All right. Will you tell the Court how much money 

was collected for the white school for the school year 
1947-1948 and deposited in the bank?

A. Excuse me, Your Honor. I have got to get this 
straight. I have a deposit slip here for May 17, 1948, for 
$10.90. I have one for May 25, 1948, for $2.98.

I have one for April 14, 1948, for $26.00. I have one for 
October 17, 1947, for $8.00. I have one for October 15, 
1947, for $2.00. I have one dated October 15, 1947, for 
$59.00. I have one dated October 8, 1947, for $46.00. I 
have one dated October 7, 1947, for $93.00. I have one 
dated for March 2, 1948, for $3.95.

Q. Now is that all, Mr. Lemmons?
A. I believe it is.
Q. Thank you.
A. There might be another slip out, but I haven’t 

checked it against the bank statement.
Q. In your opinion there may be one out?
A. There may be.
Q. Do you think there is more than one out?
A. I don’t believe there is.
Q. And in your opinion, just judging from the records 

that you have, approximately how much would that de­
posit be, Mr. Lemmons?

A. I believe it would be between $200.00 and $225.00.
Q. Now will you go to the school year 1948-1949?
A. This is 1947-1948 and during 1948-1949 we did not 

collect.
Q. You did not collect. All right. Thank you. Now 

please get me the list of books that was purchased for the 
white library during the school year 1947-1948. I believe 
you testified that you had that?

A. I testified that the librarian at LaGrange keeps that 
list.



363

Q. Well, I believe you were asked to bring the vouch­
ers and the contracts and bids for all contracts, supplies, 
including canceled checks for the Negro school and for 
the white school?

A. I have those.
Q. All right. You have the checks issued for the vol­

umes in the library, don’t you?
A. They are not separated. I did not have time to 

separate them.
Q. Well, you will separate them for us?
A. I will if I have time, yes. It will take some five or 

six hours to go through those.
Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, I believe you testified a few 

minutes ago that you saw books being brought into the 
Negro school for the library?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What year was that? >
A. That was—well, I believe I have seen them go in 

every year.
Q. Did you see any go in in the school year 1947-1948 

while you were collecting this per capita amount?
A. I believe I did. I cannot remember specifically that 

far back.
Q. Well, I believe you testified a few minutes ago that 

the money was left with the Negro principal and that you 
saw during that time, books coming in and he furnished 
you a list of them?

A. I don’t believe I testified to that.
Q. Well, what did you testify to then about your see­

ing the books coming into the school?
A. I testified that from time to time I see the books 

coming in and that I supervised the library over there, 
and that the Negro principal and Negro librarian keep a 
list of the books in the library.



364

Q. All right. Did you see books added to the Negro 
library each year while that per capita tax was being col­
lected?

A. I believe I did to the best of my recollection.
Q. Have you seen books added each year since it has 

been abolished?
A. Yes.
Q. And you saw them go into the Negro school?
A. Yes.
Q. In Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 37, which was the report 

filed by you with the State Superintendent of Education 
for the school year 1947-1948, you filed a report under 
oath that there were 579 volumes in the Negro library. 
That is correct, isn’t it, Mr. Lemmons?

A. Yes.
Q. And 2988 in the white library?
A. Yes.
Q. The following year you filed what has been intro­

duced as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 38. According to your re­
port had any volumes been added to the Negro library?

A. The number is the same. There were probably some 
replacement volumes on various books. That number 
could be in error because that is the number that the prin­
cipal furnished me and it is possible that he went back 
to his last report and copied it.

Q. As a matter of fact, you don’t know whether there 
were any additions there, do you?

A. I know there were two sets of encyclopedias pur­
chased for that school during that period and there was 
one unabridged dictionary purchased, and several other 
volumes.

Q. In seeing to the facilities in the white school you 
check those personally and keep the records and you knew 
they were there?

A. No. I took the librarian’s report just as I took the 
Negro librarian’s report. Now the State Library Super­



365

visor has started a process which they call their weeding 
out process, whereby they go through these books and pull 
out old volumes, torn volumes, and obsolete volumes and 
recommend that we replace them to keep our libraries up 
to date.

Q. And you tell the Court it is your opinion they pull 
out the exact number each year and replace the exact 
number each year?

A. No. I don’t mean to leave that impression. The 
figure may be in error. I don’t know. It is a figure that 
was furnished me and I sent it in.

Q. Well, did you leave it up to the white school prin­
cipal to collect money from the white students and put 
the money in deposit in some bank you didn’t know any­
thing about and make such purchases as they thought, 
such supplies as they thought ought to be used for white 
schools?

A. No. The white principal collects the money and 
they issue their receipts for it. The money was turned 
over to my secretary who deposited it in the bank. When 
the books were bought they were bought on the recom­
mendation of the librarian or the teacher.

Q. Thank you. I believe, Mr. Lemmons, you say that 
each year, spring, I believe, if I am correct, you have the 
principals make a survey to determine the number of stu­
dents who want elective subjects offered?

A. We did that in the white school the past spring.
Q. What did you do in the Negro school?
A. We did not make a survey in the Negro school un­

til September.
Q. You never made it until September. Why did you 

make it in the spring for white and didn’t make it until 
September for Negroes?

A. We just didn’t get around to it. We had a building 
program going on over there, and remodeling program, 
and we just didn’t get it done.



366

Q. I believe you stated that in having this survey made 
that the principal was instructed to ascertain such facts 
with reference to Negro students?

A. Ascertain what?
Q. The facts, that is, who wanted to take elective sub­

jects?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I believe you testified the first day you were 

on the stand that there were a number of elective sub­
jects offered in the white school that were not offered in 
the Negro school?

A. Yes.
Q. Now as to those subjects the Negro principal would 

not be able to offer those subjects as elective subjects, 
would he, because they were not offered in the Negro 
school?

A. We offered them.
Q. You offered a subject that was not offered in the 

Negro school to Negro students?
A. He could offer the subjects and if a student wanted 

it or a number of students wanted it, it would be put in 
the curriculum.

Q. Did you offer the subjects in the spring to white 
students?

A. Yes.
Q. And not to the Negroes?
A. Well, we just didn’t get around to it. We offered 

the same subjects to them, but when school opened in the 
fall.

Q. Well, I believe you testified the other day for the 
school year 1947-1948 and the school year 1948-1949 that 
the following subjects were offered in the white school 
but were not offered in the Negro school: Solid geometry, 
trigonometry, German, chemistry, physics, mechanical 
drawing, workshop tool units, bookkeeping, commercial



367

arithmetic, secretarial training, Jr. business training, 
music including four units and band, safety education. 
Now those were the subjects you said the other day were 
not offered in the Negro school but were offered in the 
white school?

A. No. I testified that they were taught in the white 
school and not taught in the Negro school. Had there 
been a demand for them, they would have been taught, 
but there was no demand, therefore there was no reason 
to pay a teacher $2,400.00 to stay over there and do noth­
ing.

The Court:
Were they offered in the Negro school as well as the 

white?

A. Yes. All of those courses were not taught in the 
white school either. Commercial arithmetic has not been 
taught in the white school for a number of years. Shop 
work was not taught in the white school last year. We 
just discontinued that.

Q. Now you did list the subjects taught in each school 
with the Department of Education, didn’t you, in order to 
be accredited?

A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you to examine the Standards and Activi­

ties of the High Schools in Texas on page 138 and tell the 
Court what subjects were listed with the Department of 
Education in the State of Texas as being offered in the 
LaGrange white school.

Mr. McGregor:
May I see that a moment?



368

Mr. Durham:
I will be glad, as soon as I get it marked, Your Honor, 

to give it to Mr. McGregor.

The Court:
Well, I think when you go to question the witness about 

a document that both counsel are entitled to see it.

Mr. McGregor:
May I ask a question, Your Honor, on voir dire?

The Court:
Yes.

(By Mr. McGregor):
Q. Is that an official publication of the State of Texas, 

Mr. Lemmons?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Is it the one you use in your school district?
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
Very well.

(By Mr. Durham):
Q. Now, will you read to the Court the subjects listed 

as having been offered in the LaGrange School for whites, 
first.

A. Well, these are not the subjects being offered every 
year. These are the subjects in which we have accredita­
tion.

Q. Thank you. Will you now answer my question?
A. Well, I just answered your question, because all of 

these courses were not taught last year.
Q. Were they offered the year before?



369

A. Some of them were.
Q. Will you read what was listed and filed by you with 

the Superintendent of Public Education in Texas as to 
subjects?

A. All right. English, 4 units; world history, 1 unit; 
American History, 1 unit; Texas history, half a unit; civics, 
half a unit. General mathematics, 1 unit; algebra, 2 units; 
plain geometry, 1 unit; solid geometry, half a unit; trigo­
nometry, half a unit. German, 2 units general science, 1 
unit; biology, 1 unit; chemistry, 1 unit; physics, 1 unit. 
Vocational agriculture, 4 units; homemaking, 4 units; me­
chanical drawing, 1 unit; shop work, 2 units. Bookkeeping, 
1 unit; commercial arithmetic, half a unit; typewriting, 1 
unit; secretarial training, 2 units. Jr. business training, 
1 unit. Music, 4 units; safety education, 1 unit.

Q. Will you read the subjects offered by you in the 
Negro school?

A. Well, again, your question is misleading. These are 
not the courses offered. These are the courses which have 
been taught and accredited.

Q. All right, the ones taught.
A. English, 4 units; American history, 1 unit; Negro 

history, Texas history, 1 unit; civics, 1 unit. General 
mathematics, 1 unit; algebra, 2 units; plain geometry, 1 
unit; general science, 1 unit; biology, 1 unit. Homemak­
ing, 2 units, vocational agriculture, 3 units, and typewrit­
ing, 1 unit.

Q. Thank you. Now I believe you stated that at the 
close of the school term of this past year, that is, 1948- 
1949, you made a survey to determine the number of white 
students that desired elective courses?

A. Yes.
Q. And you waited up until the opening of the school 

in September to determine what Negro students wanted 
in elective courses?



370

A. That is correct.
Q. I believe you testified the other day that you did 

not have a Negro who had the academic traiinng to con­
duct classes in junior business training?

A. No. That course, I don’t believe I have one.
Q. And you have one in the white school?
A. Well, the course offered—let me think. Yes, we 

have one qualified teacher.
Q. And I believe you said that you did not have a 

teacher who had the academic training for secretarial 
teaching in the Negro school?

A. I believe that is right.
Q. And you did have one in the white school?
A. Yes.
Q. And the other subjects we discussed the other day, 

is that correct?
A. You mean including all the subjects you listed the 

other day?
Q. No, those subjects you testified the other day you 

did not have a teacher for, you still say you do not have 
them now?

Mr. McGregor:
I think that question is so indefinite.

Mr. Durham:
I will change it.

Q. I believe you testified the other day you did not 
have a teacher who had the academic training in the Ne­
gro school to teach mechanical drawing?

A. That is right.
Q. You had one in the white school?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Lemmons, in your opinion as an educator, is it 

any advantage to a child to offer at the close of one term



371

of school the elective subjects from which he might choose 
instead of waiting up until the first day of school term 
in which to offer him that opportunity?

A. There may be some difference, but there is a dif­
ference in the two schools. When the Randolph School 
opened this year there were very few colored students 
who enrolled at the beginning of the year. We did not 
employ one teacher. So that if somebody wanted some of 
the elective courses we could search for that teacher, you 
see. We employed that teacher some two or three weeks 
ago. But had there been a demand for any of these elec­
tive courses, we would have had one teacher, a place for 
one teacher so that we could have gone out into the field 
and satisfied the demand and offered the course in Ran­
dolph School.

Q. Thank you. But the same privilege was offered the 
white students in May or the close of the previous school 
year without any demand, wasn’t it?

A. Well, they were given the same list to select the 
courses from and all of those courses were not being 
taught in the white school either, because there was no 
demand for them.

Q. But answer my question now. The white students 
were not required to make a demand. They were given 
the elective subjects at the close of the school year and 
given until the first of the year to make the selection.

A. No, that is not right. That is a pre-registration 
sheet, and when a child selected the course that he was 
going to take, the courses, those are the courses he has 
taken this year unless there was some specific reason for 
changing them. By that I mean a reason that was logical, 
not just because he wanted to change courses, but because 
of a change of curriculum or a change in his mind as to 
whether or not he was going to college.



372

Q. All right. How soon after you gave the applications 
to the white students was it before they were required to 
make their choice as to the elective subjects?

A. I believe they had two days.
Q. They had two days?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. From the day they were given?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Then you made preparations for that 

class to be taught?
A. Yes.
Q. Within two days after it was given?
A. No, no. We made the schedule, made the skeleton 

schedule for the coming school year so we could determine 
what classes would be demanded and what classes would 
be taught.

Q. Yes, I follow you.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, after you made that schedule you gave to the 

white students the subjects that would be offered at the 
close of the school term in 1948-1949 from which to select. 
That is true?

A. Yes.
Q. And the white students had two days from the date 

he was given the application and after the assignment had 
been made up for the next school year in which to make 
his election?

Mr. McGregor:
I think the predicate in the question does not reflect the 

testimony and is misleading. It incorporates the making 
up of the courses for the next year, and I don’t think the 
witness said that.



373

The Court:
The witness may answer if he can.

A. Will you restate it, please?
Q. I will try. I believe you testified that the subjects 

to be offered, the tentative, the subjects to be offered, not 
those to be taught, were made up first for the next school 
year?

A. Yes, for the whole system.
Q. All right. After that, your curriculum is made up, 

then you offered to the white students or you did offer to 
the white students what has been introduced as Defend­
ants’ Exhibit 31?

A. Yes.
Q. And that contained the subjects that were to be of­

fered at the subsequent school term?
A. Yes.
Q. Now after a similar blank as the blank introduced 

as Defendants’ Exhibit 31 had been given the white stu­
dent, he was given two days from that date in which to 
make his selection from the elective subjects?

A. Well, some of them were, yes. It took about two 
days for the principal to interview all the high school stu­
dents and make out the list. Some of them had two days 
and some of them probably half a day.

Q. Now in the selection and choice given the students 
from among the elective subjects he had the advice of the 
principal and his teacher in making this election?

A. He had the advice of the principal only.
Q. He had the advice of the principal. Now, when he 

had exercised his choice this was turned in to the superin­
tendent?

A. No. The principal made the schedule.
Q. And it finally reached the superintendent?
A. Yes, in final form.



374

Q. In final form it finally reached the superintendent. 
Now you knew at the close of the term of the white school 
what students desired to take elective subjects, didn’t you?

A. Yes.
Q. In the Negro school you waited up until opening 

day, which was what day in September?
A. I believe that was about September 5 or 6. It was 

the first Tuesday in September after Labor Day.
Q. Before the Negro students had the privilege of 

making a choice from the subjects offered. That is true, 
isn’t it?

A. Yes.
Q. I believe you said you had only one teacher em­

ployed in the Negro school on opening day?
A. No, I didn’t say that. If I did, I didn’t mean to. I 

said that we had one vacancy or a place on the budget to 
employ one extra teacher so that if there was a demand 
we could possibly meet it with the teachers which we had 
on hand.

Q. Now, when the white student exercised his choice 
in May or June at the closing of the last term the United 
States Superintendent along with the trustees made prep­
arations and provided facilities for the teaching of those 
classes, didn’t you, Mr. Lemmons, in the white school?

A. Yes. We had the facilities.
Q. Now when a Negro student made his election on the 

opening day of school you had to still make provisions for 
the teaching of that class?

A. Yes.
Q. And the class, if it was in chemistry, and you didn’t 

have a laboratory, then you had to install the facilities 
for teaching it?

A. Yes.
Q. And yet you waited up until the first day of the 

school term?



375

A. Yes.
Q. And you did that this school term?
A. Yes, because at the end of the first week of school 

the enrollment was so low. It is always low and I think 
we dismissed the colored school for three weeks to get 
the children back into the classes. The time was being 
made up during the holiday and the school will be extend­
ed at the end of the year to give them the same number 
of days in schooling as the white children get, but during 
the fall of the year they did not attend school because they 
had left the county and gone out to different places to 
work. Therefore we had three weeks after enrollment in 
which to make arrangements for them.

Q. But you provided the facilities for the teaching of 
those elective courses in the white school as of the first 
day of school. That is true, isn’t it?

A. All of them that we could, yes.
Q. But you waited until the first day of the term of 

school for Negroes to get ready to provide for them, didn’t 
you?

A. Well, yes.
Q. Nov/ I believe you said that you have got an agri­

culture teacher over at the Negro school who is teaching 
the class in the Future Farmers of America. That is Jack- 
son?

A. I believe they call that organization the New Farm­
ers of America, NFA.

Q. Does it embrace the same subjects as the Future 
Farmers?

A. Yes.
Q. I believe you said you put a pig pen on the Negro 

school campus?
A. I believe they have two hog houses.
Q. It was back of the playground?
A. Yes.



376

Q. In fact, it was on the playground, wasn’t it?
A. It was on the extreme side of the playground.
Q. I say, it was on the extreme side of the playground?
A. Yes.
Q. How many pig pens did you have there?
A. I believe we had two hog houses there.
Q. Did you keep hogs in them?
A. They brought them in from time to time, yes. They 

didn’t keep them in there continuously. They brought 
them in and took them out.

Q. They kept hog pens on the playgrounds and put 
hogs in them from time to time?

A. Yes.
Q. Now I believe the hog pens and cow pens and barns 

for teaching agriculture in the white school are on this 
tract of land Mr. Hermes gave?

A. Yes.
Q. Some distance from the school?
A. No. The playground runs right up to that. They 

are on the edge of the playground, too.
Q. Do you have a pig pen on it?
A. Yes, I believe there are four there.
Q. On the edge of the playground of the white school?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was principal of the Negro school, that is the 

Randolph School, during the school year 1947-1948?
A. I believe William Farris was the principal for the 

first half of the year.
Q. That is W. R. Farris?
A. William Farris, and then William Drisdale was 

principal for the last part.
Q. Was a class in chemistry being offered in the white 

school at the beginning of the term—



377

Mr. Durham:
Strike that. I believe you have testified about that.

Q. You testified that you refused to give the plaintiff 
in this case, Vivian Alpha Brown, chemistry during the 
school term of 1947-1948, did you, Mr. Lemmons?

A. Yes.
Q. Now you had a chemistry class, there was a chem­

istry class being taught to white students in the white 
school that year, wasn’t there?

A. Yes.
Q. And there was a chemistry class started in the 

white school on the first day of term in that year?
A. On the first day of term.
Q. Whatever day it was in September?
A. Yes.
Q. And I believe you testified that no Negro teacher 

had been hired in the Negro school to teach physics, chem­
istry, during the school term 1947-1948?

A. I believe that there was a teacher over there who 
was qualified to teach it. I believe a teacher named 
Moore was qualified to teach it, but there was not a class. 
That is my recollection. I think that Moore had either 12 
or 18 semester hours in chemistry from Prairie View.

Q. Now in December, 1947, I believe most of the Ne­
gro teachers had been fired?

Mr. McGregor:
Had been what?

Mr. Durham:
Fired.

Mr. McGregor:
How is that relevant to any issue in this case? I object 

to that as irrelevant and immaterial.



378

Mr. Durham:
I think it is very relevant. If there were no teachers 

available to teach my client and there were teachers in 
the other school teaching the same subject, I think it is 
very material.

Mr. McGregor:
I am not objecting to the proposition of showing wheth­

er or not there were not any teachers available to teach 
the students, but what I am objecting to is the relevancy 
of hiring or discharging as far as conduct is concerned as 
it is not relevant to any issue as to equal facilities.

The Court:
Objection overruled.

Mr. McGregor:
Note my exception.

Q. I believe a portion of the Negro teachers had been 
dismissed from the Negro school at the time Brown came 
up to you and asked that his children be instructed or fur­
nished instruction?

A. I believe there had been three teachers discharged 
at that time.

Q. And one of them was Moore?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is the same teacher you say was eligible 

to teach?
A. At the beginning of the year he was eligible to 

teach.

The Court:
I want to know why they were discharged?



379

A. They were discharged for driving the school bus 
at an excessive rate of speed up and down the highways.

The Court:
Three teachers were driving the school bus?

A. Two of them were, Your Honor.

The Court:
What was the other one discharged for?

A. He was discharged by the School Board be­
cause of a student strike that occurred at the negro 
school, and after the School Board’s investigation they 
discharged him.

The Court:
All right.

Q. Now, on the opening day of the school term of 
1949-1950, there was no running water in the room 
that is designated in the Randolph High School for 
negroes as the laboratory?

A. No.
Q. There was no heat, jets or plugs there furnish­

ing heat in the room designated as the laboratory in 
the negro school, known as the Randolph High School 
in LaGrange?

Mr. McGregor:
I object to all this repetition. It has been gone over 

on direct and cross examination, too.

The Court:
I think it has, but go ahead, I will hear it.
A. Would you restate your question, please?



380

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, may I say this—

The Court:
I said you can go ahead.

Mr. Durham:
Oh, thank you. In the interest of time, if it is ad­

mitted that those things were not in there at the be­
ginning of the school term—

The Court:
I did not understand it as an admission of anything. 

You are raising questions that have been gone into 
heretofore, but I will let you do it again if you want 
to.

Q. The facilities that are in the library at the high 
school used exclusively for whites in LaGrange and 
in particular those facilities that are in the library at 
the white school and those similar facilities in the ne­
gro school, are denied to negro students solely be­
cause of color and race. That is true?

A. I don’t understand your question.
Q. All right. There are certain facilities in the 

white library that you have testified about, in the 
library of the white school which is used exclusively by 
whites?

A. You refer to those volumes bought by the 
white people?

Q. No, sir, I refer to everything in the white li­
brary that is not in the negro library?

A. All right.
Q. The negro students are denied the right to use 

it because they are negro?
A. That is right.



381

Q. Now the facilities in the laboratory in the white 
school which are not in the negro school laboratory, 
the negro students are denied the right to use those 
facilities. That is, the running water and the test 
tubes that they do not have in the negro school?

Mr. McGregor:
Now just a minute. I object to that.

Mr. Durham:
Well, I will strike the question.

Mr. McGregor:
I object to the question because it incorporates a 

predicate not substantiated by the evidence. On the 
basis that the record is devoid of any evidence to 
show that there are no equipment or supplies in the 
negro school room that are supplied in the white 
school room.

The Court:
Let him answer it in his own way if he can.

A. Would you repeat the question, please?

(Question read.)

A. I can testify to this, that the negro students 
are not allowed to use the white laboratory because 
we have separate schools for them. Some of the facil­
ities in the white laboratory are found in the negro 
laboratory. Some of them are not. Some of the facil­
ities in the negro laboratory are not found in the 
white laboratory.

Q. Now this—



382

A. May I finish, please?
Q. Pardon me.
A. And some of the facilities are used for both. For 

example, the miscroscopes are used for both the 
white biology class and used by the colored biology 
class. Some of the specimens and microscopic slides 
are transferred back and forth. The chemical sup­
plies are transferred back and forth as they are 
needed. There is no reason to have two or three sepa­
rate store rooms when we can operate out of a central 
store room at a more economic cost and give better 
service to the students.

Q. Thank you. I believe you stated there are some 
facilities in the white laboratory that are not in the 
negro laboratory.

A. There are some.
Q. What facilities are those?
A. Those laboratory tables we referred to.
Q. And is there water in the negro laboratory?
A. No, there is no water in the negro laboratory.
Q. Any gas?
A. No.
Q. Now the facilities that you have just testified to 

that are in the white laboratory and not in the negro 
laboratory, the negro students are not permitted to 
use those tables, running water and so forth which 
are now in existence in the laboratory in the white 
school, solely because they are negroes. That is true, 
isn’t it, Mr. Lemmons?

A. That is true.
Q. Thank you. Now I believe the landscaping at 

the white elementary school is complete?
A. Part of it is.
Q. And that school was started after the repairs 

were made at the negro school?



383

A. Yes, it was started after the repairs were 
made. Both the negro building job and the Hermes 
building job started with the same contractor at about 
the same time.

Q. Now, Mr. Lemmons, I believe you stated that 
you have made—

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, I want to interrogate this witness 

with reference to his testimony as to what he intend­
ed in the future without waiving our objection.

The Court:
All right. Go ahead.

Mr. Durham:
Thank you.

Q. I believe you stated that you had made some 
application for some other facilities for the negro 
school. Is that right?

A. Yes.
Q. You introduced in evidence what has been 

marked as the Defendants’ Exhibit No. 37. Now when 
did you make the order for these supplies 

A. I made that order, I believe I testified, between 
the fifteenth and seventeenth of August, as best I 
recall.

Q. Have you a copy of your correspondence?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And it was your opinion that it was between the 

fifteenth and seventeenth?
A. That is right.
Q. The negro school was to open on the fifth of 

September, 1949?



384

A. About that date.
Q. And you waited until between the fifteenth and 

seventeenth of August to order the supplies?
A. To order these tables, yes.
Q. Now I believe you told Mr. McGregor yester­

day that you knew it was difficult to obtain such 
equipment for a chemical laboratory for they had to 
have special attention, is that right?

A. I did.
Q. All of the facilities including these tables for the 

negro laboratory, as far as you know, are still in the 
warehouse of the manufacturer?

A. No. All of the facilities which I ordered during 
August have arrived except these tables.

Q. I don’t think you understood my question. 
I said all those you have not received, as far as you 
know, are still in the warehouse?

The Court:
Which warehouse?

Mr. Durham:
The manufacturer’s warehouse.
A. I believe that these tables are being made up 

on special order. It seems they make them up and 
ship them out. I don’t know where they are.

Q. But as far as you know, that is, of your own 
knowledge, those tables are still in the manufac­
turer’s possession?

A. Well, I don’t know because I received a tele­
gram from them on my last inquiry that they would 
be shipped during the month of December, and I 
don’t know if they have been shipped or not.

Q. Well, all right. Up until today, you, as Super­
intendent of the Independent School District of La- 
Grange, have not received those tables?



385

A. They had not been shipped to LaGrange when 
I left LaGrange Monday morning.

Q. You have never seen them?
A. I have not.
Q. They have never been delivered to you?
A. No.
Q. They have never been placed in operation as 

any equipment or facilities of the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District?

The Court:
That is argumentative, counsel, and takes time. 

Everybody understands that these tables have not 
arrived yet.

Q. How many students did you say were being 
taught chemistry in the LaGrange negro school?

A. I believe sixteen or seventeen.
Q. And all the laboratory facilities that you have 

got for teaching those subjects to the negro students 
are what you have testified about, in the negro 
school?

A. Yes. The facilities that are shown on these 
photographs that I saw the other day.

Q. Now I believe you stated there are eighteen 
negro students taking typewriting?

A. I believe there are sixteen or eighteen.
Q. How many typewriters do you have for ne­

groes?
A. I believe there are eight.
Q. How many for whites?
A. Twenty-four or twenty-six.
Q. How many white students are taking it?
A. Twenty-six, I believe.
Q. And you have twenty-four or twenty-six type­

writers?



386

A. Yes, I have twenty-six typewriters, I believe. 
Last year I had one hundred students taking type­
writing and the same number of typewriters. Last 
year we had typewriting in the white school but 
we had about one hundred students with the same 
number of typewriters, twenty-six.

Q. I believe you stated you had two or three ten­
nis courts, concrete tennis courts for white?

A. We have two.
Q. Do you have any for negroes?
A. No.
Q. Are those courts used in connection with the 

playgrounds and activities of the white students?
A. They are.
Q. And negro students are not permitted to use 

those?
A. Well, they have never been refused. I have 

never seen any of them over there, but those play­
grounds are used all week—I mean, over the week­
end.

Q. I believe you testified yesterday, Mr. Lem­
mons, that the ratio or percentage of negro popula­
tion was about twenty-four per cent?

A. No, I believe I testified that it was about 
seventy per cent white and thirty per cent colored.

Q. I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if it is not a fact 
that in the entire scholastic enrollment population of the 
Independent School District of LaGrange, Texas, if 
the negro population does not represent forty-two and 
nine-tenths per cent of the entire enrolled school 
population?

A. Well, I don’t know about the enrolled school 
population. My figures come from, the scholastic cen­
sus which represents all of the children living within 
the confines of the district.



387

Q. Now I believe you stated that that was twelve 
hundred and some odd white students?

A. I believe there were 1,218 white students.
Q. And how many negroes?
A. 516.
Q. 516. Now, Mr. Lemmons, I believe you testi­

fied yesterday that the school building, the repairs 
done to the school building for negroes, cost approxi­
mately $69,000.00?

A. Yes.
Q. And the new school building, that is the ele­

mentary for whites, cost $110,000.00?
A. Yes. Between $110,000.00, and $120,000.00.
Q. Somewhere in that neighborhood?
A. Yes.
Q. Now did you build any other elementary 

schools during the school year 1948-1949?
A. No.
Q. And those were the only two schools you built 

during the school year 1947-1948?
A. We didn’t build.

Mr. McGregor:
I must object to continuing to put false premise 

in questions, Your Honor. He just asked the ques­
tion, 1948-1949, and then inserted the premise 1947- 
1948 in the next question, calculated to confuse and 
mislead the witness.

The Court:
The witness was about to answer.

A. Would you repeat the question.
Q. During the school year 1947-1948, I believe you 

did not build any elementary schools for either 
negroes or whites?



388

A. As I recall, we remodeled the old Randolph 
building. We spent about $5,000.00 or $7,000.00 on it. 
I have forgotten.

Q. $5,000.00 or $7,000.00. Now, how much equip­
ment did you buy for the elementary school, white, 
the Hermes School during the school year 1948-1949, and 
after you had filed your report for the school year 1947- 
1948?

A. I don’t know.
Q. Have you got a list of it, Mr. Lemmons?
A. I don’t have it with me. I have the invoices, sir. 
Q. Would that show the amount?
A. It would take three or four hours to get together, 

yes.

The Court:
We will take a recess of ten minutes.

(Short recess.)

The Court:
Be seated.

During the recess when I was in chambers some 
one of the counsel who have another case set for 
Monday asked me if this case would run over into 
next week. Apparently, he had been talking to you 
gentlemen. What did you tell him?

Mr. McGregor:
I told the young man, Harbin, I believe it was, 

that there was an indication from the plaintiffs that 
this would be the last witness and if that were true 
in all probability this might be my last witness.



389

Mr. Durham:
We expect to recall Brown, the plaintiff, and 

I don’t think it will take us over fifteen minutes with 
him, and then one other witness. I am positive, as 
far we are concerned, it won’t take us but ten min­
utes, with him.

The Court:
Well, I am not complaining, but I just wanted 

to get an idea.

All right proceed.

Q. Mr. Lemmons, in an elective subject, how 
many students, the minimum number of students, 
must make request before you will give an elective 
subject?

A. That depends, as I testified yesterday, I be­
lieve, on the grade level at which the subject is 
offered and the situation at the particular time when 
it is offered. Ordinarily, we require ten to take it but it 
might be a course like solid geometry or trigonometry 
and we will open a class for seven.

Q. For seven?
A. Yes.
Q. All right.
A. But we have refused to teach German I to 

seven freshmen because they have an opportunity 
to get it further along in their school career.

Q. In a subject where the minimum number is 
seven, what is the maximum number allowed in each 
class? What is the maximum load per student?

A. Per student?
Q. Yes. The number of students that can enter 

a class.



390

A. Well, that again varies with the subject that 
is being taught. Do you mean on the high school 
level, or—

Q. Yes, sir. I mean on the high school level.
A. Oh, in the white school we have thirty-five, 

thirty-six in the English class and the history classes 
are large.

Q. Then it would range from a seven student 
minimum up to thirty six or thirty-seven load?

A. That is right. Of course, as I stated before, 
the situation can change at any time. There is no 
set rule on it. It is just the way it has been operating.

Q. Would you give an elective course to one stu­
dent?

A. That depends on the particular situation.
Q. The particular situation. I believe yesterday 

you testified that the school, elementary school 
known as the Hermes School, cost $110,000.00 for con­
struction. In what has been introduced as Plaintiff’s 
Exhibit No. 37, at the time you filed your annual 
report for the State Superintendent as to the value 
of the grounds for elementary schools in the La- 
Grange Independent School District during the school 
year 1947-1948, you showed a value of school build­
ings for whites in the sum of $10,000.00. I believe that 
is true, isn’t it, Mr. Lemmons?

A. Yes, if this is a true copy.
Q. Well, let me get your copy.
A. That is all right.
Q. I think if we get your copy it will be all right, 

Mr. Lemmons. Let us have your copy.
A. That is correct.
Q. That is correct?
A. That is correct, yes.



391

Q. Now in the subsequent year, will you take your 
copy, that is as shown by Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 38, 
you show school buildings for elementary schools 
for whites in the LaGrange Independent School Dis­
trict have increased from $10,000.00 to $188,000.00?

A. Yes.
Q. That is right?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. You spent only $110,000.00 on this 

elementary school, I believe you stated, the building 
of it?

A. Approximately that. $110,000.00 to $125,000.00, 
approximately, I believe.

Q. All right. Say $125,000.00. What did you spend 
the difference between the $125,000.00 and the $178,- 
000.00 on, shown to have been spent on elementary 
schools for that year?

A. Not this figure, $188,000.00, does not represent 
an expenditure as I testified yesterday or the day 
before. During this period of time there were several 
schools annexed or consolidated with LaGrange 
School District, and the value of their property goes 
down with this figure also. I don’t remember how 
many schools. There were three or four annexed 
during the school year. They were common school 
districts and Warda was one of them, I believe, and 
the school district in that area of the county.

That does not represent an expenditure. That is 
just an inventory of values assigned to the properties 
from various sources. It is not an account from a set 
of books because no books have been kept on any of 
those schools.



392

The Court:
Has there been any evaluation placed by the School 

Board in the City of LaGrange? Has any one evalu­
ated those properties?

A. No, sir. They have not been appraised, Your 
Honor.

The Court:
Where in LaGrange do you regard as the center 

of the city and would that be the most valuable 
property in the downtown section?

A. I believe it would, Your Honor.
Q. How far is the white school and how far is the 

colored school from the downtown section?
A. The white school is about six or eight city 

blocks from the square, Your Honor.
Q. In what direction?
A. East.

The Court:
By “ square” you mean where the Court House is?

A. Yes, Your Honor. That is the business area 
of the town around the Court House Square.

The Court:
How far is the white school from that?

A. Six or eight or maybe ten blocks. I don't be­
lieve it is—

The Court:
East?

A. Yes.



393

The Court:
Does that throw it out in the residential section?

A. Yes, it does.

The Court:
And there are no businesses out there?

A. There are new business houses being built 
there. There are business houses directly across the 
street from it and there is a smoke drying plant across 
another street west from the school building.

The Court:
Where is the colored school located?
A. It is about half a mile northeast from the white 

school, probably eight or ten blocks north of the 
white school, Your Honor.

The Court:
How far from the business center of town?
A. I judge it will be twelve or fourteen blocks.

The Court:
Is that in a residential or business section?

A. It is predominantly residential, Your Honor. 
There is one barber shop and cafeteria across the 
street from it, or cafe, rather.

The Court:
Well now, that residential section around the white 

school, is that occupied by white folks?
A. Yes, they are.



394

The Court:
Largely or entirely?

A. Entirely, Your Honor.

The Court:
And around the colored school by whom is it 

occupied?

A. By colored people predominantly.

The Court:
In point of blocks, I am not talking about buildings 

now, but I am trying to get a picture of the land itself, 
from point of area, which is the larger; the land 
occupied by the white school or the land occupied by 
the colored school?

A. The land occupied by the white school.

The Court:
How much larger?

A. The land occupied by the colored school, I 
would judge, is between three or four acres and the 
land occupied by the white school is between ten 
and twelve acres.

The Court:
Between ten and twelve acres. As I understand it, 

both schools are within the LaGrange City Limits as 
well as in the free school limits?

A. Yes, Your Honor.



395

The Court:
In what direction does that school district extend in 

LaGrange?

A. Well, the school district extends to—well, it 
extends northwest to beyond the town of West Point.

The Court:
You go up past West Point?

A. Yes, Your Honor.

The Court:
How far is West Point?

A. It is about twelve miles, I believe.

The Court:
I see.

Q. And then the district extends back southeast to 
below Ellinger.

The Court:
Is Ellinger southwest of LaGrange?

A. It is southeast of LaGrange. It extends to the 
County Line, I believe, towards Ellinger, and then 
to the east it extends out to the County Line, Ruters- 
ville, about six miles, and then it extends west to 
about six or eight miles. It is quite an oblong district 
and the boundaries are very irregular because it 
is composed of the smaller school districts which have 
been added on.



396

The Court:
How far is LaGrange—or is it in the center of the 

district?

A. It is approximately in the center, Your Honor. 

The Court:
Has it been customarily with the schools generally 

to reach out and take in territory of that kind? That 
is, for a school district in a town to reach out and 
take in farmer territory, farming communities?

A. Yes, sir, it is.

The Court:
Is there any other school district of that kind in 

the county?

A. Yes, there are, I believe, four more, Your 
Honor.

The Court:
Do they have, as you have, a system of bringing 

the children in by bus?

A. Yes, Your Honor.

The Court:
Does that prevail in any other county up in that 

country?

A. Yes, it prevails in almost all of the rural areas 
of the state, I am told.



397

The Court:
In other words, they are sort of doing away with 

the old country schools and instead of having those, 
they are hauling the children in to the towns and 
villages and cities for educational purposes?

A. Yes, Your Honor.

The Court:
I believe that is all.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, that is all.

Re-Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, you were asked yesterday—

The Court:
You had him then, counsel. Don’t take up too much 

time.

Mr. McGregor:
I am not going to, Your Honor. There are some 

fields I want to inquire into that he opened up.

The Court:
All right.

Q. Now, this Bulletin 507 that you were inter­
rogated about in reference to accrediting of certain 
courses. It has not been marked as an exhibit but as 
I recall you were interrogated about it. Would you 
tell the Court, please, how the course gets accredited 
in here?



398

A. To accredit the course on the high school level, 
the course must be taught in the high school for one 
year and during that year the teacher accumulates 
certain exhibits, that is, examination papers, note 
books, scrap books, and other pieces of information 
which would give the State Department of Education 
a sample of the work being done in that class for a 
year. If that work meets the standards set forth by 
the Accreditation Division of the State Department 
of Education then the course is accredited and the 
course is entered on the accredited list. If the 
course is not taught for a number of years the sym­
bol is removed from the accredited list.

Q. Then does the accrediting list that you talked 
about there have anything to do with the offering 
system which you have testified about?

A. It does not.
Q. Now on this Exhibit 31, I believe it is, do you 

have that here?

Mr. Durham:
He has it, I believe.

Q. On this Exhibit 31 that you were asked about 
a while ago, are those the courses that were given, or 
those that were offered?

A. Those are the courses that were offered.
Q. When was the first year that system was in­

stituted ?
A. This past year, the year that is now in pro­

gress.
Q. Before that system of consulting with the stu­

dents was there any fixed system?
A. Yes. The schedule was made and then the stu­

dents were told to select the courses from a schedule 
which was given them. This way, by taking the new



399

method, we can give a wider choice or a wider selec­
tion of elective courses to the student and we feel 
that we can give give them a better education in 
that manner.

Q. I believe I asked you when I had you first 
on cross, but now this has come in, I won’t bother 
about it. Has there been any one requesting one of 
these elective subjects under this system that has 
been denied?

A. Do you mean from the colored school or from 
the white?

Q. Well, from the colored school?
A. No, not to my knowledge, there have not.
Q. You were asked a little while ago or rather late 

yesterday in reference to the Ellinger school, if the 
colored pupils were picked up in that area and taken to 
the Randolph School?

A. Yes.
Q. Are the white pupils in that area picked up and 

taken to the white school in the downtown area of 
LaGrange?

A. The white pupils in the elementary grades of 
Ellinger School are picked up and unloaded at the 
Ellinger School. Then the high school students are 
taken on to LaGrange.

Q. Are there any shelters or facilities supplied for 
the white students such as you were interrogated 
about to protect them from the weather?

A. There are no facilities furnished by the school 
district. Some of the parents have built shelters for 
them, but they are built on their own land.

The Court:
Where were you raised, Mr. Lemmons?

A. I was raised in Hamilton County, Texas.



400

The Court:
Hamilton County. Where is that?

A. It is about midway between Waco and Brown- 
wood. It is up near Stephenville.

The Court:
Were you raised up in the same community with 

negroes?

A. No, I was not.

The Court:
Have you lived in the same community with them?

A. I have lived in LaGrange since 1936, Your 
Honor.

The Court:
Well, what I am getting at is whether you, as Sup­

erintendent of the schools there, have got in your 
heart below your vest pocket any prejudice or hos­
tility to the negro race?

A. I don’t believe I have, Your Honor.

The Court:
I was raised up with them. I have never mistreated one 

in my life. Can you say that?

A. I don’t remember ever mistreating one.

The Court:
What I was getting at is whether your operations of 

the schools there, as Superintendent, where you have



401

those children of both races under your charge, whether 
you have in your mind and a heart a feeling that you 
want to discrminiate or to mistreat the negro race?

A. I don’t believe I have, Your Honor.

The Court:
All right. I just wanted to get your feelings.

Q. Now you were asked a little while ago this morning 
as to whether or not the Randolph School was opened at 
the same time that the white school was opened in the 
district, or white schools, and you answered that it opened, 
I believe you stated, on September 5, but that some of the 
children left the county. I think you stated they went to 
pick cotton or went to other counties or something like 
that. Is that a matter that the School Board has any 
control over?

A. No. It is not.
Q. You were asked late yesterday afternoon in refer­

ence to whether or not you have full time janitor service 
at the Randolph School and in the course of that inter­
rogation I was unable to understand whether or not that 
was full time janitor service. Is it?

A. Well, we have two full time janitors employed at 
the Randolph School.

Q. Are they employed for the purpose of taking care 
of the entire premises?

A. Yes.

The Court:
I don’t have a remembrance in my mind about what 

you told us yesterday about certain conditions of teachers 
doing the janitor work. Was that at Randolph School?



402

A. That was in Randolph School in 1947-1948, Your 
Honor, and in all the outlying schools.

The Court:
Well, why did you have the teachers doing the janitor 

service?

A. The students had strewn paper and other rubbish 
all over the school grounds and the teachers apparently 
made no attempt to have it picked up or cleaned up and 
the janitor who was employed at that time couldn’t keep 
it cleaned up, so I had them clean it up.

The Court:
I see. Were they men or women?

A. Part of them were men and part of them were 
women.

The Court:
Do you mean just the yard, or did they have to scrub 

the floors of the school?

A. No. They didn’t scrub the floors. They just picked 
up the paper and swept the class rooms out and cleaned 
them up.

Q. But at this time you have two full time janitors for 
the Randolph School?

A. I do.

The Court:
Do you have colored men at the white school as janitors, 

or are they white?



403

A. They are white, Your Honor.
Q. Now you were asked yesterday afternoon about this 

barn and the stock on the edge of the playground at the 
Hermes School. Is that stock owned by the students or by 
the School District?

A. The stock is owned by the students.
Q. On Plaintiff’s Exhibit 38, you were asked yester­

day as to the item on the side where you list teachers’ 
homes, $10,000.00. Will you tell me what that inventory 
covers?

A. That covers two homes. One of them is the home 
which I live in, and the other is the home in which the 
white vocational agriculture teacher lives in.

Q. How were those buildings acquired?
A. They were given to the School District.
Q. By whom?
A. They built the house in which I live—it was given 

to the School District by a club, I believe it was the 
Ateria Club. And the one in which the vocational agricul­
ture teacher lives was given by Mr. William Hermes.

Q. Do you pay rent for your house?
A. I do not.
Q- Is that a part of your compensation?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Is the other house given to a teacher or teachers, 

or is it rented to them?
A. It is rented to him.
Q. Now, the Court has asked you something about the 

extent of the District and on yesterday afternoon, in 
interrogating you, you were asked how far the students 
at Ellinger were carried by bus to the Randolph School, 
and I believe you stated eleven miles. Are there other 
areas in the district that require the transportation of 
students by bus for as much as that distance?

A. Yes, there are.



404

Q. And are both white and colored children carried that 
distance?

A. They are.
Q. I will ask you if the buses supplied by the LaGrange 

Independent School District are equal and uniform as 
to the white and colored children?

A. Yes, they are.
Q. Now is the Winchester area in the LaGrange In­

dependent School District?
A. It is.
Q. And about what is that distance in to the downtown 

plant?
A. From the further side or the back side of the Win­

chester district, it is approximately sixteen or eighteen 
miles to the downtown plant.

Q. Are both colored and white children brought in by 
bus to that area?

A. Yes, they are.

The Court:
Do you remember offhand how many children there are 

at Winchester? That is north of the river, isn’t it?

A. Yes, sir. That is across the river from West Point. 
We run two buses out there, one white bus and one colored 
bus and they bring between thirty-eight and forty-five 
in each bus.

The Court:
Where is it across the river?

A. They don’t cross the river because the school is on 
the same side of the river that Winchester is on



405

The Court:
West Point is on the other side of the river, isn’t it?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 38, on yesterday you 

were asked about the item on Line 2 under Column 1, the 
$2,000.00 figure. What does that represent?

A. That represents elementary playgrounds which is 
a part of the consolidated or annexed school district, the 
outlying school districts which have been consolidated into 
the LaGrange plant.

Q. Does it represent a purchase?
A. No, it does not.
Q. On yesterday you were asked about the item of 

$188,000.00 which appears on Line 1 as being the poperty of 
the white school area. I will ask you if that includes plants 
other than the plant within the downtown area?

A. Yes, it does.
Q. On Line 10 of the same exhibit, you were asked 

about the $500.00 item under visual aid. I will ask you 
what that is.

A. That is a motion picture projector which we used 
in the white school.

Q. Who purchased that?
A. The Parent-Teachers Association.
Q. The white Parent-Teachers Association.
A. Yes.
Q. They gave it to the school?
A. Yes.
Q. Now on Line 1 you were asked about this figure 

$85,000.00 in Column 7 of Page 11 of Exhibit 38. I will 
ask you what that table includes?

A. That includes the negro high school building and 
plant.

Q. As re-done as shown by Defendants’ Exhibit 1?



406

A. Yes.
Q. Are there any funds omitted from the $85,000.00 

total?
A. In my opinion there is another figure that should be 

added to that.
Q. And what is that?
A. When the old building was built, the one which ap­

pears behind the front of this new building, it was built 
on a PWA work project and the old superintendent’s report 
only carried $8,000.00 which was just the material and 
did not include the labor and which was never entered on 
the books.

Q. So to that extent, the figure is short?
A. Yes. It is in error.
Q. How much should be added to that figure, roughly?
A. I would judge $25,000.00 or $20,000.00.
Q. You were asked on yesterday about Item No. 1 on 

Line 8, cost of equipment. Do any of those items across 
Line 8, either in Column 1 or in Column 7, include any 
books?

A. No, they do not. This includes the furniture and 
fixtures, the chairs and the tables, the filing cabinets and 
the card indexes for the library.

Q. I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if the library here 
that you have at the Randolph School has been approved 
by the State Board of Education?

A. It has.
Q. Has it been approved by any other authorities?
A. Yes, it has.
Q. What other authority?
A. It has been designated as a demonstration library 

for the colored schools in Texas.
Q. And who so designated it?
A. The State Supervisor for Colored School Libraries 

at Prairie View College.



407

Q. How many such demonstration libraries are there 
in Texas?

A. There are only four.
Q. Mr. Lemmons, how many people are there on the 

LaGrange Independent School Board?
A. Seven.
Q. How is that Board selected?
A. It is a seven-member Board and the members—
Q. Well, I don’t mean the mechanics of getting them 

on as to the—I am asking how they got on the Board?
A. The are elected—
Q. They are elected?
A. —by the people.
Q. How often is the election held?
A. There is an election held each year on the first 

Saturday in April. At that time they are elected by 
regular voting procedure.

Q. And who votes in that election?
A. All the qualified voters in the LaGrange Indepen­

dent School District are eligible to vote.
Q. And who can run for membership on the board?
A. Any qualified voter within the district.
Q. In these elections do the negro qualified voters of 

the LaGrange Independent School District vote?
A. They do.
Q. Now on yesterday the Court asked you in reference 

to the graduation, as I recall, and you testified some eleven 
students graduated from the negro high school, the Ran­
dolph High School, and at the white high school there 
were some thirty-five or thirty-nine. Did you look up the 
figures so you could tell the Court approximately how 
many of those students went to college?

A. Approximately thirty-five per cent of the white 
students went on to college and I believe all of the colored 
students except one or two went to college.



408

The Court:
What year was that?

A. That is the past year.
Q. Wait, Mr. Lemmons. Do you mean this past school 

year, or the past calendar year?
A. Past school year.

The Court:
That is the year closing in May or June of this year? 

A. Yes, sir.

The Court:
Give me those figures again. Thirty-five per cent of the 

white graduates went on to college and all the negro 
students?

A. All except one or two. I asked the Principal this 
morning and he told me all except the one.

The Court:
Is it encouraged in the school that the student should 

go to college?

A. Yes, Your Honor.

The Court:
Both schools, white and negro?

A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. I hand you, Mr. Lemmons, Defendants’ Exhibits 32 

and 6.



409

Mr. McGregor:
I will admit, Your Honor, this is a little bit repetitous 

but there is an omission here I think should be cleared up.

Q. On that exhibit, Mr. Lemmons, I see a room on the 
right-hand side in the portion of the old wing, what seems 
to be a room, and I will ask you if it has a partition in it 
similar to the one over on the left-hand side?

A. Yes, it does.
Q. So there is one in there, one extra room over on that 

side rather than are now shown?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Lemmons, if you would take your 

pen and draw a line across that exhibit at approximately 
where that partition is so that the exhibit will be a true 
representation as to the number of rooms in the school 
plant.

A. (The witness complied.)

Mr. McGregor:
Now, I reoffer Exhibit 32.

Q. There is one other omission and I think I can ask 
you without the exhibit. In testifying in reference to the 
gymnasium at the Randolph School, I believe you testified 
that there was heat in the dressing room and the showers 
and the toilet facilities. I will ask you if in the present 
rooms at the gymnasium of the white school there is heat in 
those quarters?

A. No, there is not.
Q. I believe you testified that on the site of the Hermes 

and the white high school plant there is some two or three 
hundred feet between the place now used for the white 
high school and the Hermes plant?

A. Yes, there is between four and six hundred feet.



410

Q. Oh, between four and six hundred feet. And I 
believe you testified that the students from the high school 
had to go over to the Hermes plant for their lunches?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is there a covered walkway between the premises? 
A. No, there is not.

Mr. McGregor:
No further questions.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, I have just one or two questions. 

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, there is no school for either colored or 

white in the Winchester District?
A. No. Both of those schools have been abolished.
Q. They have been abolished and there is no school? 
A. Yes.
Q. Now in the Ellinger school area no white pupil in 

the grades taught in that school out there is required to go 
to LaGrange. That is true?

A. No, they are not required.
Q. Only negro students?
A. Yes.
Q. The white students, they are required to go to the 

high school?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, over in Warda no white pupil who is below the 

fourth grade is required to make the trip?
A. No.
Q. But all negro students below the fourth grade are 

required to make the trip?



411

A. Yes.
Q. Now there is one other question. You stated that 

there should be $25,000.00 added to the value given to the 
negro school. Now you said that you have got an $8,000.00 
charge there on the material?

A. Yes.
Q. And the work was done by the WPA?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was not any money for the labor spent by 

the School Board, that was spent by the Government?
A. No. That was spent by the Government.
Q. And you think that expenditure by the Government 

should be added to that figure as an expenditure?
A. I am of the opinion, in my opinion, I think it should 

be.

The Court:
Why do you maintain these schools at Ellinger and 

Warda and why haven’t you closed those like you have 
Winchester and West Point?

A. Your Honor, the State Law requires that the aver­
age daily attendance in one of these outlying elementary 
schools must fall twenty children in average daily attend­
ance for one year before you close them and that has 
not occurred as yet. Now the average daily attendance in 
Warda is about seventeen and five-tenths children for the 
first five months. In Ellinger, of course, it is higher, but 
probably Warda will be closed next year.

The Court:
I see. Then in these other places like Winchester you 

are permitted under the State Law to close them because 
of the drop in attendance?

A. Yes, sir.



412

Mr. McGregor:
There was one other question.

Re-Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. I think I asked you, Mr. Lemmons, on yesterday, two 

or three questions about the teachers that I omitted ask­
ing about just now. I asked you, Mr. Lemmons, on yester­
day, I think, to bring to the Court this morning the aver­
age pay on a comparative basis between the teachers in 
the white portion of the school and the Randolph School 
as of this year.

A. As of this year the average pay for the white 
teachers in the LaGrange school system is $2,856.06. For the 
colored school, it is $2,913.18.

Q. Was there any other analytical data that I asked you 
to bring?

The Court:
Just a minute. I didn’t get that. What do you mean by 

average pay?

A. By taking the total payroll to all of the white teach­
ers and dividing by the number of white teachers teaching. 
Then take the total payroll to the colored teachers and 
dividing it by the number of colored teachers teaching.

The Court:
That gives the white how much?

A. $2,856.06, and for the colored, it is $2,913.18.

The Court:
Well, now, that is strictly teachers. That doesn’t include 

janitors or anything like that?



413

A. It does not include janitors or my salary or any­
body except classroom teachers.

Q. Now was there any other statistical data I asked you 
for?

A. I believe that is all.

The Court:
Are you through with the witness now?

Mr. Durham:
In view of those questions I have got to ask one more, 

if the Court will permit.

Re-Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. During the school year 1948-1949, what was the aver­

age salary for whites?
A. I do not know. These figures do not reflect the 

average.
Q. I will ask you this question. What was the highest 

salary paid? That is on Page 12, Exhibit 38. What was the 
highest salary paid a white teacher?

A. $3,696.00.
Q. What was the highest salary paid a negro teacher? 
A. $3,655.00.

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.

The Court:
Are you through with this witness?

Mr. Durham:
We are through with him.



414

The Court:
All right. You may call your next witness.

Mr. Durham:
I think we can finish with him this morning.

The Court:
We will recess at 12:00, but maybe you will have time 

to ask him some questions.

JULIUS BROWN, was recalled as a witness in behalf 
of the plaintiff and testified further as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Your name is Julius Brown?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You testified the first day this case started?
A. Yes, sir.
Q1, Now who was the Principal of the colored school, 

Randolph School, in LaGrange in September, 1947?
A. Professor Collins.
Q. Now did you talk to Mr. Collins about chemistry for 

your child before the school started?
A. I did.
Q. What did he say?
A. Professor Collins told me—

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that as hearsay.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, the testimony here shows that the Principal 

was appointed—



415

The Court:
I will hear it. Objection overruled.

Mr. McGregor:
Exception.

A. Professor Collins told me he was able to teach 
chemistry but they did not have sufficient to teach it with. 

Q. He told you your child could or could not get it?
A. He told me she could get it but they didn’t have 

sufficient. He stated they didn’t have sufficient things to 
accomplish their needs. That was my understanding.

Mr. McGregor:
I move this question be stricken.

The Court:
I will hear it.

Mr. McGregor:
Note our exception.

Q. Now I will ask you if Mr. Collins left the school 
without saying anything about why he left? Did he finally 
leave the school after it opened?

A. Yes, sir, he did.
Q. Was that before you went to Mr. Lemmons on the 

fifth of December?
A. He left before I went to Mr. Lemmons on the fifth 

of December.
Q. After he left, you then went to Mr. Lemmons?
A. I went to Mr. Lemmons.

Mr. Durham:
That is all, Your Honor.



416

Mr. McGregor:
No questions.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Mr. Durham:
We have got one more, and if the Court wants to hear 

him now we may get through with him.

The Court:
Bring him in.

Have you been sworn?

Mr. Farris:
Yes, sir.

WILLIAM N. FARRIS, was called as a witness in 
behalf of the plaintiff and, having been first duly sworn, 
testified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
Q. What are your initials, Mr. Farris?
A. William N.
Q. Where do you live?
A. Houston, Texas.

The Court:
How do you spell that name?

A. F-a-r-r-i-s.
Q. Were you ever employed in LaGrange, Texas?



417

A. Yes, I was.
Q. By whom were you employed?
A. The Superintendent.
Q. That is Mr. C. A. Lemmons?
A. That is right.
Q. Was that in the Randolph Colored School?
A. It was.
Q. In what capacity?
A. As the Principal.
Q. When did you start work there?
A. September 1, 1948.
Q. When did you resign?
A. The latter part of January, 1949.
Q. 1949. Did you resign of your own accord?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. After you left the school, where did you go to work? 
A. Here in Houston.
Q. In what capacity?
A. As a postal clerk in the Post Office Department.
Q. Now have you had any high school training?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. What high school training?
A. Four years of academic training at the Denison 

Colored School.
Q. Is that an accredited high school?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What college training have you had?
A. Four years of standard courses at Prairie View 

Industrial College.
Q. At the time you went to the Randolph High School 

as the Principal in the LaGrange District, are you familiar 
with what was in the room designated as the laboratory, 
when you first went there?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was that?
A. There wasn’t anything by the way of a laboratory.



418

Q. Are you familiar now with what was there when 
you left in January, this year, 1949?

A. When I left?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, I am.
Q. What was that?
A. They had ordered and delivered about $600.00 worth 

of glassware to be used in the laboratory. They had 
ordered approximately thirty some odd chairs with the 
hand-arm rest. I was on some charts for biological de­
monstration. That is as far as I can go.

Q. Thank you. Was anything else in the laboratory 
when you left there in January, as Principal, 1949, ex­
cept what you have testified about?

A. Not that I recall.
Q. Now did you make a written requisition to Mr. 

Lemmons, the Superintendent, for supplies and equipment 
for the laboratory in the negro school in LaGrange?

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that unless it is confined to some particular 

time.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, I am showing that Mr. Lemmons, if I 

followed his testimony right, said that the negro supplies 
and equipment were furnished for the asking and they 
kept no record of it.

The Court:
I will hear it. Objection overruled.

Q. Did you deliver that written requisition or request 
to Mr. Lemmons?

A. In person.
Q. In person. Now, what did you ask for?



419

The Court:
When was this?

Q. About when was that, Farris, when you talked to 
Mr. Lemmons and delivered the written request?

A. I cannot recall the exact date but some time after 
the school session started in the early part of the year.

Q. You don’t know the date. It was the early part of 
the session?

The Court:
What session do you mean? September, 1948?

A. 1948-1949.
Q. What did you request for the laboratory in the 

negro school, as near as you can remember?

Mr. McGregor:
I object to that. The request itself would be the best 

evidence.

The Court:
I think it would.

Mr. Durham:
We have requested it before, and we make the request 

again that it be produced.

Mr. McGregor:
I don’t recall any denial of any request, Your Honor. 

Mr. Durham:
I may be mistaken, but I think Mr. Lemmons testified 

that in the negro school there was no written record 
kept on it and all they had, all they did, the Principal



420

asked for it, and he sent it down. This man was the 
Principal, and—

The Court:
The matter I am ruling on is that if there was a written 

request, it is the best evidence, but if there wasn’t, why, 
then—

Mr. McGregor:
I understood the witness to testify he made a written 

request.

The Court:
I think that would be the best evidence.

Mr. Durham:
Do you have a copy of the original?

A. I left all my records in LaGrange with the Super­
intendent who succeeded me.

Q. Do you know whether you can get a copy of it now?

The Court:
If it is here among all those papers, why, of course, 

I want them to produce it. I am going to recess until 2:00 
o’clock, and you can have it looked up.

The Court will recess until 2:00 o’clock.

(Recessed at 12:00 o’clock noon.)

Afternoon Session 2:00 p. m.

The Court:
Be seated, gentlemen.



421

Mr. McGregor:
Before the plaintiff rests, Your Honor, I want to tender 

Dr. Boelsch, the President of the School Board, the Assis­
tant Secretary, and Mr. Baumbach, the Secretary, if 
they desire to use them. They are here in Court.

The Court:
All right, you may proceed.

WILLIAM N. FARRIS, resumed the stand and testified 
further as follows:

Direct Examination (continued.)

By Mr. Durham:
Q:. I believe you testified this morning that you started 

working as Principal in the LaGrange Independent School 
District, and Principal of the Randolph Colored School in 
September, 1948?

A. That is correct.
Q. Will you tell the Court what was in the room that 

was designated as the library in the Randolph Colored 
School, LaGrange Independent School District, when you 
went there?

A. There wasn’t anything in there.
Q. Were any volumes put in there after you went 

there?
A. Yes, there were.
Q. What was put in there, Mr. Farris, please, sir?
A. I recall at least two sets of World Encyclopedia and 

at least two full volumes of dictionaries.
Q. Now when you left there in January, 1949, this 

year, had any additional volumes been put in that room 
designated for the library?



422

A. Not that I recall.
Q. Will you tell the Court what was in the room 

used and designated for teaching vocational agriculture 
when you went to the school in September, 1948?

A. Some ordinary desks and a few hammers and saws 
and miscellaneous tools.

Q. When you left in January, 1949, what had been 
added, if anything?

A. None that I know of.
Q. Did you graduate in a high school in the State of 

Texas?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Was it a separate or segregated high school?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Where was it located?
A. At Denison, Texas.
Q. Did you take science and particularly the subjects 

of physics or chemistry in your high school work?
A. I took physics.
Q. Was that school equipped with a laboratory for 

teaching science?
A. It was.

Mr. McGregor:
I don’t see how that is relevant to any issue in this 

case. It is going far afield.

The Court:
What do you say to the objection?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, my position is that here is a man who 

was trained in the schools with a laboratory. Without 
getting opinion evidence I think the testimony, if the 
Court will permit me, and which I think the witness



423

will answer, that he got his training in a high school with 
a laboratory better than the one that was provided here, 
and that he got water, heat, and the chemical tables and—

The Court:
I will hear it. Objection overruled.

Mr. McGregor:
Note my exception.

Q. In the high school at Denison, did they have 
running water?

A. No, they didn’t.
Q. Did they have regular chemical tables for experi­

ments?
A. No, they didn’t.
Q. Brunson burners?
A. Yes.
Q. After you left high school, did you continue your 

studies in college?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you continue in science and especially the sub­

jects of chemistry or physics?
A. In both.
Q. In what school did you pursue your college work? 
A. Prairie View.
Q. Did the Prairie View Institute have a chemical 

laboratory?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. Was it equipped with the usual tables that are 

used in the science laboratories?
A. Yes, they were.
Q. Did they have running water?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. Did they have Brunson burners?
A. Yes.



424

Q. Test tubes?
A. Yes.
Q. Now in your effort at study and understanding those 

subjects were you benefited by having running water, 
regular laboratory tables, Brunson burners; were you bet­
ter able to understand the subject?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it of any benefit, such a laboratory as I have 

asked you about that they had in Prairie View, in con­
nection with your subjects over the type you had in the 
high school?

A. Yes, it was.
Q. Now as a teacher, in your opinion, does a laboratory 

with running water, Brunson burners, laboratory tables, 
test tubes, have any educational value to the student 
studying chemistry or physics?

A. It does.

Mr. McGregor:
Your Honor, that is repetitious. It has all been gone 

into with Mr. Lemmons. He testified it was of benefit. 
The evidence shows it is in the process of being installed 
in the school there. It seems to me this is just extending 
the evidence.

The Court:
I will hear it. Objection overruled.

Mr. Durham:
You may have the witness.

Cross Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Where do you live now, Mr. Farris?
A. Houston, Texas.



425

Q. And you have lived here, have you, since you left 
the Principal’s office at LaGrange, Texas?

A. I have.
Q. You were in the Randolph School when you were 

there?
A. I was.
Q. Were you the Principal of not only the high school 

section but the grammar school section, too?
A. I was, insofar as I know.

The Court:
What is the answer?

A. I was, insofar as I know.
Q. Was the grammar school section being taught at 

Randolph at the time that you were there?
A. It was.
Q. How many grades or classes did you have there at 

the time?
A. From the first through the twelfth grade.
Q. And do you know how many students there were 

together in the school while you were there?
A. I can only approximate it.
Q. What is your rough estimate of it?
A. About 425.
Q. Do you know how many there are now?
A. No, I don’t.
Q. When you were the Principal of that school you had 

the duty of collecting the library fees, did you?
A. No, I didn’t.
Q. Did you ever make any effort to collect library 

fees?
A. No, I haven’t.
Q. Were you told it was your duty to collect them?
A. No.



426

Q. Nobody told you that was your duty?
A. No, they didn’t.
Q. Did you collect the fines for the keeping of books 

overtime?
A. I have not collected them.

The Court:
He did not come until September, 1948, did he?

A. No, sir.

Mr. McGregor:
That is right.

The Court:
I thought the School Superintendent testified that was 

done away with before that time, that dollar.

Mr. McGregor:
Your Honor is correct. I was a year off.

Q. You are now employed by the Postal Department, 
you say?

A. Yes, I am.
Q. Did you take a Civil Service Examination for that 

position?
A. I did.
Q. When did you take it?
A. December, 1947.
Q. In December, 1947. Where?
A. In Houston, Texas.
Q. When did you file your first application for it? 
A. I don’t recall the exact date.
Q. Was it some six months or a year before?
A. Maybe.



427

Q. I see. Had you planned for some time to take that 
examination?

A. Only when it was announced.
Q. Well, do you recall when it was announced that you 

could file your application for it?
A. No, I don’t.
Q. Well, you say it was some six months or a year 

before you took it?
A. I didn’t say it was a year. I said it was some time 

before I don’t know how long.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all.

Mr. Durham:
That is all.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Mr. Durham:
Plaintiffs rest, Your Honor.

Mr. McGregor:
At this time, Your Honor, we move for judgment on 

the pleadings as submitted and on the evidence that is 
in, on the grounds that: One, there is no plaintiff shown 
here qualified to maintain such a class suit that is here 
filed.

Because there has been a failure to show sufficient in­
terest and an adequate representation of the class.

And for the additional reason that the main plaintiff 
has not resided in the particular locality for more than 
two years.



428

As an additional ground for the motion for judgment, at 
this time, we move that the Court enter judgment for 
and in default of having a real plaintiff with a substantial 
interest for the application of declaratory judgment.

For the reason it is shown clearly, we think, by the 
proof, that there was not a suitable and timely application 
for the course of which the student was alleged to have 
been deprived and that it must be obvious from the evi­
dence that the case is therefore a moot case in a situation 
which has been supplied as a predicate for the case.

The third proposition, we move for judgment on the 
ground that the plaintiffs evidence, if the plaintiff is 
properly before the Court, wholly fails to show that there 
is any substantial inequality in the educational facilities 
furnished for the negro children in the LaGrange Indepen­
dent School District.

The Court:
I will take the motion with the case.

Mr. McGregor:
Call Mr. Baumbach.

ALVIN BAUMBACH, was called as a witness in be­
half of the defendants and, having been first duly sworn, 
testified as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Your name, please, for the Court. 
A. Alvin Baumbach.



429

The Court:
How do you spell your name?

A. B-a-u-m-b-a-c-h.
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At Halstead.
Q. Is that in Fayette County?
A. Yes, it is in Fayette County, about six miles east 

of LaGrange.
Q. Is that in the LaGrange Independent School District? 
A. It is.
Q. Where were you born, Mr. Baumbach?
A. In Fayette County, near Fayetteville, Texas.
Q. Have you lived in Fayette County all your life? 
A. Yes, except in 1917, I was out of the county.
Q. Where were you then?
A. In the Army.
Q. What is your present business or occupation other 

than being on the School Board of the LaGrange Indepen­
dent School District?

A. Merchant.
Q. Do you have an establishment or a place of business 

where you conduct your merchandising business?
A. I have.
Q. Where is it?
A. Halstead, Texas.
Q. Where is that, in reference to what highway it may 

be on?
A. It is about a quarter of a mile off of Highway 71. 
Q. And what town or village is it close to?
A. Well, LaGrange is the closest.
Q. And is LaGrange on the east or the west side?
A. West side.
Q. And what is the first town to the east?
A. Ellinger.



430

Q, Ellinger has one of the schools that are in the 
LaGrange Independent School District?

A. That is right.
Q. When did you first run for a position on the La- 

Grange Independent School District?
A. I had been appointed to fill an unexpired term in 

1945, and I think it lasted one and a half years. And the 
next April, I had been elected.

Q. Next April, you had what?
A. I don’t remember. It would be three years now, next 

April, that I have been elected to the position. I mean, as 
a Trustee.

Q. In other words, you have first had an appointed 
term and then you—

A. Run for re-election.
Q. You were re-elected?
A. That is right.
Q. When was the present improvement program, that 

is to say, what year was the present improvement pro­
gram actually begun, or when did it have its inception in 
the Board?

A. The Minutes show it, but I just exactly don’t know.
Q. Would you like to look at the Minutes for the 

purpose of refreshing your recollection on the date?
A. Yes. There was an old building at the colored 

school which was a fire hazard. Two-story building. We 
had a condemnation suit to get that away from the pre­
sent school site. That was July, 1946.

The Court:
What happened in July, 1946?

A. That is when the suit was brought to get an old 
building away from the colored school. It was a fire 
hazard. An old wooden building we had to clear out and



431

get more grounds for the school.
Q. In other words, you began the improvement pro­

gram on the colored school by removing an old building 
from the grounds?

A. That is right.
Q. Did the District already own the old building?
A. You mean the School District?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Did they own the grounds that building was on?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you have that condemnation suit?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you acquire the old building and the grounds?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Is it the grounds that are now a part of the Ran­

dolph School grounds?
A. It is.
Q. Now, were the present buildings in the improve­

ment program financed through any special means of fin­
ancing?

A. I don’t quite understand.
Q. Well, now did you get the money to go ahead with 

the program?
A. Bond issue.
Q. And do you recall what date you first considered 

the bond issue in the Board?
A. The Minutes show it. I just can’t recall.
Q. Would you like to refresh your recollection on that?
A. Yes. On May 12, 1947, sir.
Q. And was it decided at that time to begin the im­

provement program?
A. It was.
Q. Now after you decided that, did you take any steps 

with financial people to issue the bonds?
A. We did.



432

Q. Were there later on further steps in reference to 
this bond issue?

A. I think there was. We had the bond people come 
over.

Q. Would you refresh your recollection as to the next 
meeting in which the bonding people appeared?

A. November 12, 1947.
Q. Now was it necessary to have an election to pass 

these bonds?
A. It was.
Q. When was the first step taken in reference to hav­

ing the election to pass the bond issue?
A. In January, the thirteenth, 1947—1948.
Q. Now did you have further conversations with bond­

ing representatives?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you to refresh your recollection as to 

what date that was?
A. January 14.
Q. What year?
A. 1948.
Q. Now was there such an election, that is, bond elec­

tion ordered?
A. It was.
Q. Would you refresh your recollection as to the date 

it was ordered?
A. On January 15, 1948.
Q. Was the bond issue passed?
A. It was.
Q. Then after the passage of the bond issue were any 

steps taken by the board to improve the school facilities?
A. It was.
Q. Was one of those first steps the employment of an 

architect?
A. That is right.



433

Q. Can you tell us about the date?
A. April 8, 1948.
Q. Now can you tell us about when the architect’s plans 

and specifications were accepted
A. On September 21, 1948.
Q. After the acceptance of the plans and specifications, 

was the contract let?
A. It was.
Q. You have heard this testimony about the con­

struction. Was that the result of this contract?
A. It was.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Baumbach, if the School Board 

that you are now on is the same one that started this 
improvement program? *

A. It is.
Q. Has there been any change in the membership?
A. One, maybe, or so.
Q. A new member, or—
A. Let me see. Yes. It is one new member.
Q. One new member?
A. Yes.
Q:. Has the policy of the Board to continue these im­

provements in the LaGrange Independent School District 
remained the same since 1946 to the present time?

A. It has, and it is still continuing.
Q. What is the policy of the present board in refer­

ence to the maintenance and preservation of that policy?
A. Same thing, to improve, for the improvement.
Q. There were many improvements needed in the 

District, weren’t there?
A. That is right, and there are still some needed.

Mr. McGregor:
Take the witness.



Cross Examination

By Mr. Durham:
Q. Mr. Baumbach, at each of these meetings you say 

you discussed the bond issue. Did you discuss a bond issue 
for the construction of the elementary school for whites? 

A. Well, all of it was discussed.
Q. They were all discussed. It was not necessarily 

bonds for the negro school, it was for the purpose of im­
proving the District?

A. For the purpose of improving the School District. 
Q. Now you say your policy has at all times been to 

improve the school facilities?
A. That is right.
Q. And is it your policy in the future to improve the 

school facilities in the LaGrange Independent School Dis­
trict on the same pattern you have been improving them 
since you have been Trustee?

A. Yes, to improve.

Mr. Durham:
That is all.

Mr. McGregor:
That is all.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Mr. McGregor:
Come around for a minute, Mr. Lemmons.



435

C. A. LEMMONS, was called as a witness in behalf 
of the defendants and, having been duly sworn, testified 
as follows:

Direct Examination.

By Mr. McGregor:
Q. Mr. Lemmons, in reference to testimony of yours 

here this morning on the salaries, you gave a top salary 
in the white school of some $3,000.00. Was that a teacher’s 
salary, or your salary?

A. That was my salary.
Q. And I believe that was for the school year 1948-1949?
A. Yes, I believe so.
Q. The averages that you gave me between the school 

teachers in the Randolph School and in the other schools 
in LaGrange was an average based on the salaries being 
paid this year?

A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. And when I say “this year” I mean the school year 

1948-1949. Is that what you intended to mean in your 
answer?

A. No. I meant the salaries that are being paid now for 
the school year 1949-1950.

Mr. McGregor:
All right. That is all.

Cross Examination.

By Mr. Durham:
G. Mr. Lemmons, the school year 1949-1950 is the first 

school year that started operating under the Gilmer- 
Aiken Bill?

A. Yes.



436

Q. And under that law it is mandatory that teachers 
be paid similar salaries based upon experience and tenure?

A. Yes. The same provisions are contained in the law 
we operated on last year, known as the Equalization Law, 
and they were then paid on experience and tenure.

Mr. Durham:
That is all.

The Court:
Stand aside.

Mr. McGregor:
Defendants rest and would like to renew their motion. 

The Court:
The motion will be taken with the case.

Mr. Durham:
Plaintiffs rest, Your Honor.

The Court:
Do you gentlemen want to argue the case?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, if the Court desires argument, we can 

present the Court memorandum briefs, if the Court 
agrees, in order to preserve the time of the Court. We have 
taken up considerable time.

The Court:
I was going to leave that to counsel, whatever counsel 

prefer.



437

Mr. Durham:
In view of the time taken, Your Honor, it is my view 

that we should present memorandum briefs instead of 
taking up further time of the Court.

The Court:
What is your position?

Mr. McGregor:
Will the Court give me just a second?

The Court:
All right.

Mr. McGregor:
Defendants waive argument.

The Court:
How long before you can present briefs?

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, if the Court can give me about eight days, 

I have got a matter, I am compelled to go to trial 
in the State Court on Monday in Dallas. I hope to be 
through Wednesday, and I will start right on the brief.

The Court:
How much time do you need?

Mr. McGregor:
Well, I had rather not start on mine until I get the 

plaintiff’s. I will get up my skeleton but I would like to 
have not less than five days after I get his.



438

The Court:
In view of the Holidays intervening, I would just as soon 

give you until the first of January.

Mr. Durham:
I will appreciate it.

Mr. McGregor:
I will have mine ready then, but can I have the five 

days, Your Honor.

The Court:
How long before you can get yours in?

Mr. Durham:
I can give Mr. McGregor a copy of mine within two 

weeks.

The Court:
That will be all right. Briefs to be submitted January 1.

On that point, I was just thinking. Ordinarily, I can re­
member testimony sufficiently to decide a case unless it 
is a case such as we have here. For instance, I did not 
make any memorandum, and I have not any way of check­
ing up on those figures, checking which of those figures 
is which. Of course, the record shows that. Another thing, 
there is a good deal of evidence about the condition of one 
school and the facilities of another. I was just wondering 
whether I ought not to have the record written up.

Mr. McGregor:
Would Your Honor like to hear this case argued? I can’t 

help but have the feeling the Court wants to hear this case 
argued?



439

The Court:
No, no. I will take it on briefs.

Mr. McGregor:
We will agree to split the costs of the record if the Court 

wants it written up.

Mr. Durham:
We will agree, Your Honor.

The Court:
I will make this notation then. Submitted, briefs by 

January 1, next, 1950. The record will be written up, 
costs taxed fifty-fifty.

Mr. Durham:
Your Honor, may I inquire of the Court that the ex­

hibits might be attached in original form?

The Court:
Yes, put the exhibits in the record.

Mr. McGregor:
Now, inasmuch as there is going to be this factual 

delineation I will have to wait until I get plaintiff’s 
brief. I think I can do it in five days, but I might want 
to ask the Court for a few days more because I have cases 
set every week.

The Court:
I want to suggest to counsel on both sides that we have 

some briefing rules in the District which may not seem 
to counsel to be important, but they are of a great deal of 
importance to the Judge when he goes to read the briefs. I 
suggest you get a copy from the rules and you will find



440

some new ones in the Clerk’s office, and you can follow 
the outline of the briefs. It is very much like a Circuit 
Court of Appeals case.

Mr. Durham:
If the rules require a reference to the page of the re­

cord—

The Court:
No, it does not.

Mr. Durham:
Well, I was thinking I might have to ask the indulgence 

of the Court until I get this record, if it requires that.

The Court:
No, it does not require that.

The rules require you to state your preposition of law, 
your facts, and then point out what the witnesses said, if 
you like. In fact, I am carrying everything in my mind 
except the details of what the situation is in the chemistry 
room in one place, and one room in another place. There 
is so much of it, I haven’t got it in my mind, but I will get 
it from the record.

All right. The Court will adjourn.

(Adjourned at 2:30 p. m.)



441

FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS 
OF LAW.

(Filed February 17, 1950.)

(Title Omitted.)

Statement of the Case:
Plaintiff, a negro, claiming to be a citizen of the 

United States, and a resident domiciled in La Grange, 
Fayette County, Texas, in this District and Division, 
and living within the LaGrange Independent School 
District, and claiming to be a property owner and 
taxpayer in said County and School District, and the 
father of two children entitled to attend the free pub­
lic schools of such District, brings this suit for him­
self and on behalf of others similarly situated, against 
Defendants, complaining of discrimination against the 
negro school children or pupils of the District in the 
matter of school facilities. He claims that there is 
jurisdiction here under the Fourteenth Amendment 
of the Constitution of the United States and under the 
Judicial Code. He prays for Declaratory Judgment 
and for Permanent Injunction, restraining Defen­
dants from further discrimination.

Defendants have answered, setting forth that Plain­
tiff does not have sufficient interest in the subject 
matter of the suit to entitle him, or any of the class 
he represents, to any relief here. Defendants also 
say that the Constitution and Statutes of Texas re­
quire the establishment, maintainance, and opera­
tion of separate schools for negro children and white



442

children; that there is no discrimination in the oper­
ation and maintainence of the schools of such Dis­
trict; and that the separate schools operated and 
maintained for the negro children are substantially 
equal to those maintained and operated for white 
children.

After careful consideration of the evidence offered 
and in the light of the Law applicable, I find for De­
fendants. Missouri v. Canada, 305 U. S. 339. Sipuel v. 
Oklahoma, 332 U. S. 631.

Findings of Fact:
(a) The Defendant, LaGrange Independent School 

District, was established in Fayette County, Texas, 
in this District and Division, by virtue of a Special 
Act of the Texas Legislature, effective April 2, 1921. 
Such Act was designed to, and does, give to such 
District, its Trustees, and other officers, certain 
privileges and powers, and prescribes certain duties. 
All point to a material and permanent improvement of 
the public schools of the District. Reference is made 
to such Act. New territory has from time to time 
been added to that described in the Act until at the 
time of this trial a large area of Fayette County was 
included in such District, with LaGrange the central 
point.

(b) One of the first plans or movements was to 
gradually abolish all the smaller schools of the Dis­
trict, and to establish two large and efficient schools 
in LaGrange, one for the white pupils and one for the 
negro pupils, and to daily transport the pupils to and 
from these two schools by bus. This is being done



443

by many similar Districts in Texas. This plan has 
been carried out, except that there is still a school 
for white elementary pupils at Warda and another for 
white elementary pupils at Ellinger.

The evidence with respect to such centralization 
plan shows no discrimination against the negro pu­
pils. Negroes and whites have had and are having the 
same treatment.

(c) All of the negro pupils of the LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District now attend the Randolph 
School, a combined High School and Elementary 
School situated in the town of LaGrange. This school 
is constructed of masonary. It is of the one story 
type and is fireproof. The original portion of this 
building was erected in 1934 or 1935, and the additions 
were completed in 1949. Certain fittings and furnish­
ings of the addition, landscaping and sidewalks re­
main to be added, but the plant is substantially com ­
plete. Except in size, this building compares favor­
ably with and is as good and useful as the buildings 
used by the white pupils. The difference in size is 
due to there being more white pupils than negro 
pupils.

(d) Each grade at Randolph School has a sepa­
rate classroom, a teacher, as we do the school for the 
white pupils. They have the same electric lighting, 
good “ day-lighting,”  adequate and approved seat- 
ings, and comparable (although in part different) 
heating as the school for white pupils. The gymnasium 
is constructed of the best materials and is modern. 
In fact, the Randolph School Plant is modern and of 
the latest design, and as stated is as good as the



444

building used in LaGrange for the white pupils. It is 
far superior to the buildings and equipment used by 
the white pupils at Warda and Ellinger. I am not 
impressed that Plaintiffs complaint with respect to 
the open corridors is meritorious. Whatever differ­
ence there may be as to the value of the respective 
sites and buildings therein arises in part by reason 
of their distance from the center of the town.

(e) The faculty of the Randolph School is com­
posed of teachers with a higher rating than those in 
the white schools. It has an average pay scale higher 
than the white schools, and a student load less than 
the white schools. The student load is 20.1 child per 
teacher in the negro school and 22.6 child per teacher 
in the white schools.

(f) The curriculum of the Randolph School is that 
prescribed and required by the State with the same 
electives studies or subjects submitted to the negro 
pupils as those submitted to the white pupils. The 
only negro child shown to have been denied an elec­
tive study or subject was the daughter of the Plain­
tiff in this case who applied for chemistry (not a re­
quired subject) on December 5, 1947, too late for 
such a class to be organized for that year. Whatever 
delay there was in giving the negro pupils the right 
to take the elective studies was due to the fact that 
the negro school is delayed in getting started two to 
three weeks every year because of the negroes leav­
ing the county and returning late—probably follow­
ing cotton picking work.

(g) The white pupils have a better library than 
the negroes. The libraries of the District first became



445

supported by the public funds of the School District 
in the School Year 1948-1949 and the Randolph School 
has been receiving its proportionate share of additions 
since that time. It is equipped with the usual book­
shelves and a teacher with a check out desk. Previous 
to the school year 1948-1949, the respective libraries 
were maintained by donations from individuals, par­
ent teachers associations, and there were few dona­
tions to the negro schools. Also by fines and a fee of 
$1.00 per pupil which ordinarily were not collected 
at the negro school.

(h) The entrance requirements, the teaching sys­
tem, the examinations, the graduation, and all other 
similar requirements of the negro schools and white 
schools are not only substantially equal but are iden­
tical.

(i) Further discussion would unduly prolong these 
findings. It is sufficient to say that while the two 
schools (negro and white) are not identical and while 
the white schools may excel in some respects and the 
negro schools may excel in some respects, they are 
substantially equal. The disposition of the school au­
thorities is shown by the evidence to be to continue 
to improve the schools for both races.

Conclusions of Law:

1:—The establishment, maintainance, and opera­
tion of separate schools for negro pupils and white 
pupils in the LaGrange Independent School District is 
not unlawful under the Constitution and other Laws



446

of the State of Texas, nor does it violate the provi­
sions of Amendment XIV to the Constitution of the 
United States.

2:—The separate schools maintained for the negro 
pupils in the LaGrange Independent School District 
are substantially equal to the schools maintained for 
white pupils. In fact, the schools maintained at 
LaGrange in such District for the negro pupils are 
superior to those maintained at Warda and Ellinger 
for the white pupils.

3:—While the matter is not free from doubt, I 
think that Plaintiff in this case has shown sufficient 
interest to permit him to prosecute this suit and to 
represent others similarly situated in the LaGrange 
Independent School District. I think the Court should 
be liberal in its holdings in this kind of a suit.

4:—Plaintiff is not entitled to an Injunction, but 
Declaratory Judgment will enter in accordance with 
these Findings and Conclusions.

T. M. KENNERLY,
Judge.



447

FINAL DECREE.

(Filed March 7, 1950.)

In The District Court Of The United States For The 
Southern District Of Texas, Houston Division.

Julius Brown, Plaintiff,
vs. Civil Action No. 4223. 

Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent 
School District, LaGrange, Texas, and the La- 
Grange Independent School District, a Body 
Corporate, L. D. Boelsche, President of said 
Board and C. A. Lemmons, Superintendent of the 
Public School System of the City of LaGrange, 
Texas, and of the said LaGrange Independent 
School District, and in their Official Capacity, 
Defendants.

Came On before me on the 5th day of December, 
1949, The LaGrange Independent School District by 
and through its duly authorized and constituted offi­
cials and Julius Brown, appearing for himself and 
on the behalf of others, similarly situated, as alleged 
in the said Julius Brown’s petition, and upon hearing 
the pleadings read and the evidence introduced, the 
Court entered on the 16th day of February, 1950, its 
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, which said 
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law are referred 
to for all purposes and by reference are made a 
part hereof, and incorporated hereinfor all purposes.

The plaintiff’s plea for an Injunction is denied and 
further It Is Ordered, Adjudged, Decreed, Deter­
mined and Declared that the establishment, main­
tenance and operation of separate schools for negro



448

pupils and white pupils in the LaGrange Independent 
School District is not unlawful under the Constitution 
and other Laws of the State of Texas, nor does it 
violate the provisions of Amendment XIV to the Con­
stitution of the United States.

It Is Further Ordered and Declared that the sepa­
rate schools maintained for negro pupils in the La- 
Grange Independent School District are substantially 
equal to the schools maintained for white pupils.

It Is Further Ordered and Declared that the plain­
tiff, Julius Brown, has shown sufficient interest to 
permit him to prosecute the within action.

All costs herein are adjudged against the plaintiff.
Done at Houston, Texas, this 7 day of March, 1950.

(S.) T. M. KENNERLY,
Judge.

(S.) BEN N. RAMEY,

Approved As To Form:
(S.) W. J. DURHAM,

(W. J. Durham),
Attorney for Plaintiff.

(S.) MILES L. MOSS,
(Miles L. Moss),

(S.) DOUGLAS W. McGREGOR, 
(Douglas W. McGregor), 

Attorneys for Defendants.



449

NOTICE OF APPEAL.

(Filed April 6, 1950.)

In The District Court Of The United States For The
Southern District Of Texas, Houston Division.

Julius Brown, Plaintiff,
vs. Civil Action No. 4223. 

Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent 
School District, LaGrange, Texas, and the La- 
Grange Independent School District, a Body 
Corporate, L. D. Boelsche, President of said 
Board and C. A. Lemmons, Superintendent of the 
Public School System of the City of LaGrange, 
Texas, and of the said LaGrange Independent 
School District, and in their Official Capacity, 
Defendants.

Notice Is Hereby Given That Julius Brown, plaintiff 
above-named, appeals to the Circuit Court of Appeals 
for the Fifth Circuit from the final judgment of the 
Court entered in this cause on the 7th day of March, 
1950, denying the relief sought by plaintiff as more 
fully set out in said judgment.

Dated this the 6th day of April, 1950.
W. J. DURHAM,

(W. J. Durham),
2600 Flora, P. O. Box 641,

Dallas, Texas.
U. SIMPSON TATE,

(U. Simpson Tate).
1718 Jackson Street,

Dallas, Texas.



450

Copy of the above Notice of Appeal has been this 
day delivered to the office of Douglas McGregor, 
Second National Bank Bldg., Houston, Texas, Attor­
neys for Defendants.

(Signature Illegible),
Acting for Attys for Plain­

tiff.

BONDS FOR COSTS OF APPEAL.

(Filed April 6, 1950.)

(Title Omitted.)

Know All Men By These Presents, that we, Julius 
Brown as principal and E. E. Ward and Pearl Carina 
Anderson as sureties, are held and firmly bound unto 
the Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent 
School District, LaGrange, Texas, and the LaGrange 
Independent School District, a Body Corporate, L. D. 
Boelsche, President of said Board and C. A. Lem­
mons, Superintendent of the Public School System of 
the City of LaGrange, Texas, and of the said La­
Grange Independent School District, and in their of­
ficial capacity, in the full and just sum of Two Hun­
dred and fifty ($250.00) Dollars to be paid to the said 
Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent 
School District, LaGrange, Texas, and the LaGrange 
Independent School District, a Body Corporate, L. D. 
Boelsche, President of said Board and C. A. Lem­
mons, Superintendent of the Public School System of 
the City of LaGrange, Texas, and of the said La­
Grange Independent School District, and in their of­



451

ficial Capacity, their successors, executors, adminis­
trators and assigns; to which payment, well and 
truly to be made, We bind ourselves, our heirs, exe­
cutors and administrators, jointly and severally by 
these presents.

Sealed With Our Seals And Dated This 4th day of 
April, 1950.

Whereas, on February 16, 1950, in an action de­
pending in the United States District Court for the 
Southern District of Texas between Julius Brown as 
plaintiff and the Board of Trustees of the LaGrange 
Independent School District LaGrange, Texas, and 
the LaGrange Independent School District a Body 
Corporate, L. D. Boelsche, President of said Board 
and C. A. Lemmons, Superintendent of the Public 
School System of the City of LaGrange, Texas, and 
of the said LaGrange, Texas, Independent School Dis­
trict, and in their official capacity as defendants, a 
judgment was rendered against the said plaintiff, 
to-wit:

Came on before me on the 5th day of December, 
1949 The LaGrange Independent School District by 
and through its duly authorized and constituted offi­
cials and Julius Brown, appearing for himself and on 
the behalf of others, similarly situated, as alleged in 
the said Julius Brown’s petition, and upon hearing 
the pleadings read and the evidence introduced, the 
Court entered on the 16th day of February, 1950, its 
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, which said 
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law are re­
ferred to for all purposes and by references are made 
a part hereof, and incorporated herein for all pur­
poses.



452

The plaintiff’s plea for an Injunction is denied and 
further It Is Ordered, Adjudged, Decreed, De­
termined and Declared that the establishment, main­
tenance and operation of separate schools for negro 
pupils and white pupils in the LaGrange Independent 
School District is not unlawful under the Constitution 
and other Laws of the State of Texas, nor does it 
violate the provisions of Amendment XIV to the Con­
stitution of the United States.

It Is Further Ordered And Declared that the sepa­
rate schools maintained for negro pupils in the La- 
Grange Independent School District are substantially 
equal to the schools maintained for white pupils.

It Is Further Ordered And Declared That the plain­
tiff, Julius Brown, has shown sufficient interest to 
permit him to prosecute the within action.

All costs herein are adjudged against the plaintiff.

Done at Houston, Texas, this 16th day of February 
1950.

(S.) ..........................................
Judge.

and the said plaintiff, Julius Brown, having filed a 
Notice of Appeal from such judgment to the United 
States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Fifth Cir­
cuit;

Now, the condition of this obligation is such that if 
the said plaintiff, Julius Brown, shall prosecute his 
appeal to effect and shall pay costs if the appeal is 
dismissed or the judgment affirmed, or such costs 
as the said United States Circuit Court of Appeals



453

may award against the plaintiff, Julius Brown, if the 
judgment is modified or in any other event, then this 
obligation to be void; otherwise to remain in full 
force and effect.

JULIUS BROWN,
Principal.

E. E. WARD,
Surety.

PEARL CARINA ANDER­
SON,

Surety.

State Of Texas,
County Of Dallas.

Before Me, the undersigned authority, a Notary 
Public in and for said State and County on this day 
personally appeared E. E. Ward, to me well known, 
and known to me to be a creditable person, who, after 
being by me first duly sworn, on oath, deposes and 
says as follows, to-wit:

That the affiant desires and proposes to become 
a surety on the appeal bond of Julius Brown in Civil 
Action Number 4223 and styled “ Julius Brown vs. 
Board of Trustees of the LaGrange Independent 
School District, LaGrange, Texas and the LaGrange 
Independent School District, A Body Corporate, L. D. 
Boelsche, President of said Board and C. A. Lem­
mons, Superintendent of the Public School System of 
the City of LaGrange, Texas and the said LaGrange 
Independent School District and in their official ca­
pacity”  filed in the Federal District Court for the 
Southern District of Texas, Houston Division, and in 
order to induce the District Clerk of the Southern 
District of Texas and the official charged with duty



454

of accepting said bond, to accept the bond of Julius 
Brown with the affiant and another or others as Sure­
ties thereon, make the following statement concern­
ing the affiant’s financial condition and with refer­
ence to properties owned by affiant, to-wit:

That affiant is the sole owner of the following de­
scribed properties; that each piece of the same is 
presently of the market value set opposite each piece 
of the same; that the same is encumbered only to 
the extent and in the amount set opposite each piece 
of said property, and that each piece of the same, 
after deducting the amount of the encumbrances 
shown from the present market value thereof, has 
the net value set opposite each piece thereof, to- 
wit:

Location & Description:

Situated in the County of Dallas, State of Texas, and 
being Lot 2, Block c/598, Simpson and Clark’s Addi­
tion to the City of Dallas, Texas, as per map or plat 
thereof, Recorded in the Map Records of Dallas Coun­
ty, Texas.

Encumbrance Net Value
None $25,000.00

That none of the property above described is affi­
ant’s homestead, and that the affiant is not using and 
does not intend to use, the same, or any part thereof, 
for any homestead or business purpose. That no part 
of said property is exempt from force sale under the 
laws of the State of Texas; that no part of said prop­
erty is involved in litigation of any kind or charac­
ter; that the title to the above described property in



455

good of record and in fact in the affiant; that the af­
fiant has never heard of his title to any part of said 
property questioned by any person or corporation 
whomsoever, and that no part of the same is occupied 
by any person or corporation claiming adversely to 
the affiant.

Dated this the 27th day of March, 1950.
E. E. WARD,
(E. E. Ward), 

Affiant-Surety.

State Of Texas,
County of Dallas.

Before me, the undersigned authority, a Notary 
Public in and for said State and County, on this day 
personally appeared E. E. Ward known to me to be 
the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing 
instrument, and acknowledged to me that he executed 
the same for the purpose and consideration therein 
expressed.

Given under my hand and seal of office on this the 
27th day of March, 1950.

BOBBYE DURHAM,
(Bobbye Durham),

Notary Public in and for 
Dallas County, Texas.

(Seal)



456

ORDER SENDING UP ORIGINAL EXHIBITS.

(Filed, July 7, 1950.) 

(Title Omitted.)

This The 7 Day of July, 1950, came on to be heard 
the motion of plaintiff Julius Brown in the above 
styled and numbered cause to have certain exhibits 
not included in the Transcript of Evidence furnished 
by the Court Reporter forwarded in the original to 
the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals as part of the re­
cord on appeal in the above styled and numbered 
cause; and the said motion having been considered, 
and the Court being of the opinion that it ought to be 
granted, it is, therefore,

Ordered that the following exhibits not included in 
the Transcript of Evidence furnished by the Court 
Reporter be forwarded in the original to the Fifth 
Circuit Court of Appeals as part of the record on 
appeal in the said cause;

Plaintiff’s

Plaintiff’s

Plaintiff’s

Plaintiff’s

Plaintiff’ s

1, Photograph;

2, Photograph;

3, Photograph;

4, Photograph;

5, Photograph;

Plaintiff’ s 6, Photograph;



457

Plaintiff’s 7, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 8, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’ s 9, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 10, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 11, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’ s 12, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’ s 13, Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 14 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 15 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 16 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 17 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 18 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 19 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 20 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’s 21 Photograph; 

Plaintiff’ s 22 Photograph; 

Plaintiffs 23 Photograph;

Plaintiff’ s 24 Photograph;



458

Plaintiff’s 26 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 27 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 28 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 29 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 30 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 31 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 32 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 33 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 34 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 35 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 36 Photograph;

Plaintiff’s 37, Superintendent’s Report 1947-1948; 

Plaintiff’s 38, Superintendent’s Report 1948-1949; 

Defendant’s 1, Elevation of School, plat; 

Defendant’s 5, Photograph;

Defendant’s 6, Photograph;

Plaintiff’ s 25 Photograph;

Defendant’s 7, Photograph;



459

Defendant’s 9 Photograph;

Defendant’s 10, Photograph;

Defendant’s 11, Photograph;

Defendant’s 12 Photograph;

Defendant’s 13 Photograph;

Defendant’s 14 Photograph;

Defendant’s 15, Photograph;

Defendant’s 16, Photograph;

Defendant’s 17, Photograph;

Defendant’s 18, Photograph;

Defendant’s 19, Photograph;

Defendant’s 20, Photograph;

Defendant’s 21, Photograph;

Defendant’s 22, Photograph;

Defendant’s 31, Pre-registration Sheet for Survey 

Defendant’s 32, Ground Plan;

Defendant’s 8, Photograph;

Defendant’s 33, Photograph;



480

Defendant’s 35, Blue Print;

Defendant’s 36, Acknowledgment of Order;

Defendant’s 37, Design in Progressive Architecture, 
April 1949;

Defendant’s 38, Design in Progressive Architec­
ture, June 1949;

Defendant’s 39, Design in Architectural Forum, 
October 1949;

Defendant’s 40, Design 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, Architec­
tural Forum;

Defendant’s 41, Photograph;

Defendant’s 42, Photograph;

Defendant’s 43, Photograph;

Defendant’s 44, Photograph;

Defendant’s 45, Photograph;

Defendant’s 46, Photograph;

Defendant’s 48, Photograph;
Defendant’s 51, Photograph;
Defendant’s 55, School Desk.

(S.) T. M. KENNERLY,
Judge.

Defendant’s 34, Photograph;



461

CLERK’S CERTIFICATE.

United States Of America,
Southern District Of Texas.

I, HAL V. WATTS, Clerk of the United States Dis­
trict Court for the Southern District of Texas, in the 
Fifth Circuit and District aforesaid, do hereby certify 
the foregoing to be a true and correct copy of the 
record and all proceedings had in the case, as called 
for in the Designation for Contents of Record, Page 
1 of this Transcript, in Cause No. 4223, on the Civil 
Action Docket of said Court at Houston, entitled Ju­
lius Brown vs. Board of Trustees of LaGrange Inde­
pendent School District, et al., as the same now ap­
pears on file and of record in my office.

And that in accordance with the Application to send 
up certain of the Original Exhibits and the Order 
thereon, which said Order appears on Page 544 of said 
Transcript, the Original Exhibits referred to in said 
Order are herewith transmitted as a part of the 
Transcript.

To Certify Which, Witness my hand and the Seal of 
said Court at Houston, in said District, this the 7 day 
of July A. D. 1950.

HAL Y. WATTS,
(Hal V. Watts),

(Seal) Clerk, United States Dis­
trict Court, Southern Dis­
trict of Texas.



E. S. TIPTON PRINTING CO.. NEW ORLEANS —  99573