Georgia NAACP v. Fayette County Board of Commissioners County Defendants' Statement of Additional Undisputed Material Facts in Opposition to Plaintiffs' Motion for Summary Judgement

    Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 57

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE OF 
THE NAACP, et al.,

Plaintiffs,
CIVIL ACTION NO. 3:11-CV- 

v. 00123-TCB

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et a l,

Defendants.

COUNTY DEFENDANTS’ RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION
TO PLAINTIFFS’ MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

I. INTRODUCTION

This Court should deny Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary Judgment and grant 

County Defendants’ Motion for Summary Judgment. Plaintiffs refuse to recognize, 

the controlling authority of Nipper and its requirement that a proposed plan must 

be capable of being ordered as a remedy. The reason for Plaintiffs’ stubborn 

refusal is clear: under the clear authority of Nipper, the Illustrative Plan proposed 

by Plaintiffs cannot be ordered as a remedy by this Court because that plan is a 

racial gerrymander.

1



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 57

Even if Nipper did not make it impossible for Plaintiffs to meet this first 

precondition of a successful Section 2 claim, they still must also show that the 

totality of the circumstances supports their claim. Because Plaintiffs cannot meet 

that test either, they present this Court with a mirage—something that looks real at 

a distance but cannot stand up to the facts. At root, Plaintiffs base their arguments 

with respect to the totality of the circumstances analysis not on facts but on how 

they perceive the world to exist and their feelings about that perceived world.

[Doc. 110-1, p. 50]. In short, Plaintiffs’ view of the world can be summed up as 

Plaintiff John E. Jones, president of the Fayette County NAACP expressed: those 

who do not support district voting for Fayette County hold “white supremacist 

views” and the word “conservative” in political campaigns is a coded racial appeal. 

Deposition of John E. Jones [Doc. 134] (“J. Jones Dep.”) 57:25-58:2; 82:17-25.

While County Defendants do not discount the passion with which Plaintiffs 

are pursuing their political goal of district voting, in that effort Plaintiffs have 

manufactured a Fayette County world that simply does match the facts which are 

relevant to an examination of the totality of the circumstances. Plaintiffs have been 

unable to identify any racial discrimination by Fayette County, any racial appeal by 

a Fayette candidate, or any particularized need of the African-American 

community that white citizens of Fayette County do not have. They have not

2



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 57

identified any need of the northern Fayette area that remains “unmet” at this point 

beyond a desire for increased government spending on Kenwood Park during an 

economic downturn, even at the expense of critical services like fire and police. In 

fact, the only “unmet” desire of Plaintiffs is their fervent political wish for district 

voting.

In the end, Plaintiffs do not and cannot provide this Court with the necessary- 

ingredients for a finding in their favor: undisputed facts and legal authority which 

requires judgment in their favor. On the other hand, County Defendants have 

provided both. Therefore, Plaintiffs' Motion for Summary Judgment should be 

denied and County Defendants' Motion granted.

II. ARGUMENT AND CITATION OF AUTHORITIES

Plaintiffs correctly state what they must show in order to establish a Section 

2 claim under Thornburg v. Gingles. 478 U.S. 30, 106 S.Ct. 2752, 92 L.Ed.2d 25 

(1986). As detailed in County Defendants' brief in support of their motion for 

summary judgment [Doc. 108-2], Plaintiffs cannot meet the first Gingles 

precondition. Even if Plaint iffs could meet that standard, they cannot demonstrate 

that the totality of the circumstances supports their theory that at-large voting has 

abridged their right to vote on account of their race. Instead, the undisputed

3



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 57

testimony of Plaintiffs themselves shows the totality of the circumstances weighs 

against their claims, and therefore Plaintiffs’ motion must be denied.

A. County Defendants Do Not Contest Plaintiffs’ Ability to Establish 
Prongs Two and Three of Gingles.

Although it is unclear whether the evidence of racial polarization in the 

Fayette County is due to race or politics, County Defendants do not dispute 

Plaintiffs’ ability to establish the second and third Gingles preconditions.1 

Plaintiffs recognize the absence of any dispute on those two prongs but, in arguing 

the points anyway, add a footnote that County Defendants must address. In that 

footnote, Plaintiffs cast the 2006 special election to the Board of Commissioners as 

a situation in which an “objectively not as qualified” white candidate defeated a 

number of qualified black candidates. [Doc. 110-1, p. 11 n.4]. Plaintiffs do not 

provide any basis for how they determined that Commissioner Horgan was 

“objectively not as qualified,” and conveniently ignore the testimony of other 

commissioners (past and present) that Commissioner Horgan was qualified and

1 County Defendants have not contested these points even though it is unclear 
whether the evidence of racial polarization in the county is due to race or politics. 
As Plaintiffs testified, most African-American voters in Fayette County vote for 
Democratic candidates in a largely Republican county. Deposition of Henry 
Adams [Doc. 130] (“Adams Dep.”) 39:16-24; Deposition of Terence Clark [Doc. 
131] (“Clark Dep.”) 47:12-16; 30(b)(6) Deposition of Ga. State Conf. of the 
NAACP by and through Edward DuBose [Doc. 132] (“DuBose Dep.”) 52:25-53:4; 
J. Jones Dep. 125:6-16; Deposition of Bonnie Lee Wright [Doc. 138] (“Wright 
Dep.”) 25:4-7.

4



Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 57

was supported in his election by the very-popular incumbent sheriff, providing a 

reasonable non-racial explanation for his success during a low-turnout special 

election. Deposition of Jack Smith [Doc. 121] (“Smith Dep.”) 66:7-17 (qualified); 

Deposition of Herbert Eugene Frady [Doc. 115] (“Frady Dep.” ) 49:9-16 (more 

qualified than others); Deposition of Peter Pfeifer [Doc. 120] (“Pfeifer Dep.”) 

24:6-25:6 (supported by sheriff). Plaintiffs’ subjective beliefs that Commissioner 

Horgan was not qualified do not prove that racial discrimination exists in Fayette 

County’s electoral system .

B. Plaintiffs’ Illustrative Plan Does Not Comply with Prong One of 
Gingles Because It is a Racial Gerrymander.

Inexplicably, Plaintiffs still refuse to acknowledge the existence of Nipper v. 

Smith, 39 F.3d 1494 (11th Cir. 1994). There is not a single reference to that case in 

Plaintiffs’ brief on summary judgment, even after this Court explained to 

Plaintiffs’ counsel that Nipper controlled in the Eleventh Circuit. [Doc. 85, pp. 

24:25-26:10], Although County Defendants have fully briefed the failure of the 

Illustrative Plan to comply with the first Gingles prong [Doc. 108-2], a full 

response to Plaintiffs’ brief requires specific rebuttal of several of the points raised 

by Plaintiffs.

5



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 57

/. The Illustrative Plan Does Not Comply with Traditional 
Redistricting Principles.

Plaintiffs launch immediately into a discussion of whether the Illustrative 

Plan meets “traditional redistricting principles.” [Doc. 110-1, p. 14]. Plaintiffs, 

however, do not appear to understand why a proposed plan must meet those 

principles. As this Court has made clear, a plan submitted for compliance with 

prong one must be a plan that the Court can order as a remedy. [Doc. 85, pp. 

24:25-26:10]; [Doc. 125, p. 2 n. 2], Analysis of such apian necessarily includes a 

review of whether it would be necessary to subordinate “traditional redistricting 

policies and allowing race to predominate,” but the purpose of the review is to 

ensure that the plan complies with prong one. Abrams v. Johnson, 521 U.S. 74, 91,

117 S.Ct. 1925 (1997); see also Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1530-31; Burton v. City o f  Belle 

Glade, 178 F.3d 1175, 1199 (11th Cir. 1999); Bush v. Vera, 517 U.S. 952, 1016- 

1017, 116 S.Ct. 1941, 135 L.Ed.2d 248 (1996). Plaintiffs must show that race did 

not predominate in the drawing of their remedial plan; if they fail to make that 

showing, they cannot satisfy the first prong of Gingles. Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1530-31.

This is not a new requirement. In a decision related to Georgia 1990s 

redistricting that was later upheld by the Supreme Court, the district court 

determined that Section 2 did not require the addition of a second majority- 

minority district; in making that determination, the district court looked

6



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 57

specifically at the geographic dispersion of the minority community and the 

inability to draw a majority-minority district without race predominating. Johnson 

v. Miller, 922 F.Supp. 1556, 1566 (S.D. Ga. 1995) a ff’dsub now. Abrams v. 

Johnson, 521 U.S. 74, 117 S. Ct. 1925, 138 L. Ed. 2d 285 (1997).

a. Compactness.

There is no objective compactness standard; instead, compactness is 

measured relative to other shapes" and districts. Deposition of William Cooper 

[Doc. 107] (“Cooper Dep.” ) 216:5-217:6; Deposition of John Bennett Morgan 

[Doc. 119] (“Morgan Dep.”) 67:16-68:1. Both Plaintiffs’ and County Defendants’ 

experts agree that using more than one compactness measure is helpiid because the 

two main measures of compactness (Polsby-Popper and Reock) “reward” different 

things."1 Declaration of John B. Morgan [Docs. 108-5, 108-6, 108-7] (“Morgan 

Report”) 1 32; Cooper Dep. 225:16-226:3.

Despite that admission by their expert, as well as his statement that the

Illustrative Plan is “not going to win a blue ribbon for compactness,” Cooper Dep.

" The shape of the district is created by the boundaries of the population the 
mapdrawer chose to include in the district.

For example, the Reock score looks at how well a district fills an enclosing circle, 
while the Polsby-Popper score takes the boundaries of a district and expands them 
to a circle to measure the area. Reock generates higher scores for districts that fill 
an area, while Polsby-Popper generates higher scores for districts that use less 
perimeter. Morgan Dep. 111:3-113:3.

7



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 57

135:9-10, Plaintiffs urge the use of only one compactness score in an attempt to 

illustrate the Illustrative Plan is somehow compact. [Doc. 110-1, pp. 17-20]. 

Plaintiffs’ argument that there is no “requirement” to use both tests ignores the 

testimony of both their own expert and Morgan that using both tests is useful in 

determining the relative compactness scores of various districts and plans.4 

Morgan Dep. 110:25-112:21 (“Well, I don’t think there’s a requirement that you 

would use both. But the reason I like to use them, and the reason that I think they 

make sense is they complement each other.”); Cooper Dep. 225:16-226:20 (“Well, 

it helps to look at different scores. Right.”).

It is undisputed that, when using the two compactness measures, the 

majority-minority district (District 5 on the Illustrative Plan drawn by Cooper) is 

the least compact district of any district drawn for Fayette County. Morgan Report,

35. Furthermore, by Plaintiffs’ expert’s admission, the district is less compact

4 Plaintiffs incorrectly claim that Morgan contended the Illustrative Plan is “not 
compact.” Morgan never made such a claim, but instead he repeatedly explained 
the lack of an objective “compact/not compact” standard to Plaintiffs’ counsel 
during his deposition. For example in response to a repeated theme in his 
deposition, whether a district was “compact enough” to meet his standards,
Morgan responded, “I wouldn’t characterize it as saying that a district is compact 
or is not compact, and I take issue with the way that that is phrased. I have tried to 
say several times that you can characterize a district as being more or less compact 
in comparison to another district.” Morgan Dep. 127:2-8; see also Morgan Dep.
113:4-24 (“I wouldn't make a general statement that a district is compact”).



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 57

than nearly all of the districts to which he compared it for state and county 

commission boundaries. Cooper Dep. 231:20-232:15; 236:17-237:2; 245:8-13; 

246:5-15.

After recognizing that a district has a relatively low or lower compactness 

score when compared with other districts, the next question is why that is the case. 

For example, Cooper noted that a lower compactness score sometimes can be 

explained by factors such as efforts to comply with Section 5 of the VRA (which is 

not an issue in Fayette County because it currently lacks a protected district). 

Cooper Dep. 235:13-17. However, Cooper was unable to explain the lack of 

compactness of District 5 of the Illustrative Plan by any geographic features of the 

county or maintaining political subdivisions, lending support to the conclusion that 

the plan was drawn primarily based on race.

Of course, Plaintiffs do not have to present the most compact plan possible. 

But they do bear the burden of demonstrating that the relative lack of compactness 

in the Illustrative Plan is not the result of race-conscious redistricting, something 

they cannot do. Miller v. Johnson, 515 U.S. 900, 917, 115 S.C.t 2475, 2489, 132 

L.Ed.2d 762 (1995); Hunt v. Cromartie, 526 U.S. 541, 547-548, 119 S.Ct. 1545, 

143 L.Ed.2d 731 (1999).

9



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 57

b. Population Equality.

Plaintiffs next argue that their plan falls within an acceptable population 

deviation from the ideal district size, i.e., ten percent. [Doc. 110-1, p. 21]. Plaintiffs 

cite Larios v. Cox, 300 F.Supp.2d 1320 (N.D. Ga. 2004) a ff’d, 542 U.S. 947, 124

S. Ct. 2806, 159 L. Ed. 2d 831 (2004), for that proposition. The Larios court, 

however, determined that there is no ten percent “safe harbor” for population 

equality. Larios, 300 F. Supp.2d at 1340-1341. Furthermore, when a court orders a 

plan as a remedy (the standard for review of the Illustrative Plan), population 

equality is the “overriding objective.” Larios v. Cox, 314 F. Supp. 2d 1357, 1360 

(N.D. Ga. 2004). Simply coming within ten percent is not the standard, particularly 

after Larios.

Still, the question is not whether the Illustrative Plan has an objectively “low 

enough” population deviation. The question is whether deviations from the ideal 

population size are justified by some state interest, such as maintaining precincts or 

other traditional principles of redistricting. Larios, 300 F.Supp.2d 1341-1342. 

Cooper was unable to identify any traditional principles of redistricting that drove 

the deviation from the ideal district size in District 5: not avoiding precinct splits 

(Cooper Dep. 191:14-25), not compactness (Cooper Dep. 236:17-237:2; 245:8-13),

10



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 57

and not maintaining communities of interest (Cooper Dep. 284:4-20; 284:23- 

285:7; 285:20-24; 286:16-24).5

Plaintiffs do not have to present a zero deviation redistricting plan. They do, 

however, bear the burden of demonstrating that the reasons for deviations from the 

ideal district size are not the result of race-conscious redistricting, something they 

cannot do with the Illustrative Plan. Miller, 515 U.S. at 917; Hunt, 526 U.S. at 547- 

548.

c. Precinct Splits.

As discussed at length in County Defendants’ Brief, Cooper was unable to 

draw a majority-minority district using only precincts. Cooper Dep. 191:14-25. 

Instead, he used the smallest level of geography (where the only things that can be 

known are race and population) and he had the African-American percentage of 

each block displayed on his computer as he drew District 5. Cooper Dep. 107:2-15.

5 Plaintiffs’ argument in a footnote that Cooper underpopulated District 5 based on 
growth patterns in Fayette County after the Census does not square with Cooper’s 
own testimony. There are no population estimates available below the county level, 
making it impossible for Cooper to know where in the county any growth is taking 
place. Cooper Dep. 278:10-19. Those county-level estimates did not appear in 
Cooper’s redistricting software, were not released until May 2012 (long after 
Cooper drew District 5), and Cooper performed no analysis of voter registration 
growth below the precinct level. Cooper Dep. 278:22-25, 279:23-280:3. Courts 
have also recognized that relying on growth trends as a reason for deviating from 
the ideal district size is not appropriate. Larios, 300 F.Supp.2d at 1345.

11



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 57

Plaintiffs are correct that the location of incumbents’ residences can be one 

of the factors that drives a lower compactness score or leads to more split 

precincts, but that factor does not explain all of the precinct splits here. Cooper 

claims the 11 split precincts on his plan were designed to protect incumbents, but 

he could only identity one such split and was unable to explain the purpose for any 

of the other 10 splits. Cooper Dep. 151:16-152:17.

But Cooper’s mapdrawing and testimony establishes that, without question, 

race was the reason for the precinct splits on the Illustrative Plan. In each split on 

District 5, Cooper always placed a higher percentage of African-American 

individuals into the district and always removed a higher percentage of white 

individuals. Supplemental Declaration of John B. Morgan [Doc. 108-8] (“Supp. 

Morgan Report”) 20. This is exactly the type of boundary segment analysis that 

demonstrates racial predominance. Hunt, 526 U.S. at 548.

Plaintiffs are not required to present a plan to this Court without any precinct 

splits, but they do have to present a plan that is not drawn primarily based on race. 

Miller, 515 U.S. at 917; Hunt, 526 U.S. at 547-548. The precinct splits in District 5 

demonstrate racial predominance in the drawing of the Illustrative Plan and cannot 

be explained on any other grounds.

12



Case 3 :ll-cv-0Q123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 57

d. Communities of Interest.

Although somewhat out of place, Plaintiffs argue in their discussion of Shaw 

that Cooper “accounted for communities of interest in developing the Illustrative 

PlanS  [Doc. 110-1, p. 27], This is a curious and completely unsupported assertion, 

in light of Cooper’s admissions that (1) he was unaware of the location or 

attendance patterns for any churches or civic organizations besides the NAACP 

when he drew the Illustrative Plan (Cooper Dep. 284:23-285:7; 285:20-24), (2) the 

Illustrative Plan ignored municipal boundaries (Cooper Dep. 284:4-20), and (3) the 

Illustrative Plan did not follow school attendance zones (Cooper Dep. 286:16-24). 

The only community of interest to which Cooper apparently paid any attention was 

a racial one, relying on his perception of the unity of the black population in the 

county. Cooper Dep. 184:13-185:6; 186:19-25; 136:25-137:6. Assuming that a 

population group is a community based solely on their race is not appropriate. 

League o f  United Latin Am. Citizens v. Perry, 548 U.S. 399, 433, 126 S. Ct. 2594, 

2618, 165 L. Ed. 2d 609 (2006).

To the extent Plaintiffs are arguing that Cooper accidentally included non- 

racial communities of interest in District 5, that argument is refuted by a 

comparison of the Plaintiffs’ testimony and the Illustrative Plan. Plaintiffs’ 

testimony indicates that there is a regional community in the northern portion of

13



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 57

Fayette County with shared interests in the North Fayette Community Association, 

lower crime and better education, and using the same recreation areas. [Doc. 110- 

1, P- 28].

That asserted community of interest, however, does not exist on the 

Illustrative Plan. Instead of being included or possibly explaining the shape of the 

district and its deviations from traditional redistricting principles, most of these 

regional communities of interest are in fact excluded from District 5 on the 

Illustrative Plan. The predictor of whether a particular area will be included in 

District 5 is not its regional character but rather its racial character. See Supp. 

Morgan Report, *h 20. School attendance zones in north Fayette are excluded from 

the district. Cooper Dep. 288:14-290:19. Municipal boundaries of cities in Fayette 

(like Tyrone) are divided by the district. Cooper Dep. 146:15-21. In spite of 

Cooper’s reliance on things he had been told by Plaintiffs’ counsel about church 

attendance and common interests (Cooper Dep. 52:9-23; 284:23-285:19), not one 

of the Plaintiffs could identify a single individual who attends church in a different 

part of the county than the part where they live. Adams Dep. 52:10-14; Clark Dep. 

74:7-14; DuBose Dep. 61:4-10; Deposition of Alice Matthews Jones [Doc. 133] 

(“A. Jones Dep.”) 61:10-13; J. Jones Dep. 85:9-86:20; Deposition of Daniel L. 

Lowry [Doc. 135] (“Lowry' Dep.”) 33:5-34:8. The only apparent common worship

14



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 57

area in the county is the one mosque located in Fayetteville.6 Deposition of Aisha 

Abdur-Rahman [Doc. 128] (“Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep.”) 80:6-10; Deposition of 

Ali Abdur-Rahman [Doc. 129] (“Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep.”) 41:10-12, 41:22-42:1. 

Not all Plaintiffs are members of the North Fayette Community Association. 

Wright Dep. 44:22-24.

Although some Plaintiffs claimed that there is an interest in shared 

recreation areas, one Plaintiff testified that recreation areas in fact are not primary 

communities of interest. Adams Dep. 54:23-55:3. Another Plaintiff testified that 

those who live in Tyrone go to parks in Tyrone, not to Kenwood Park in 

Fayetteville. Richardson Dep. 43:18-44:16; 46:3-9. According to two Plaintiffs, 

Kenwood Park is often used by individuals from outside Fayette County, further 

undermining Plaintiffs’ reliance on common recreation areas as proof of a 

community of interest of Fayette County residents. A. Jones Dep. 63:21-24; 

Adams Dep. 53:22-54:1.

6 Most of Plaintiffs attend worship locations that are located outside of Fayette 
County, further undermining Plaintiffs’ reliance on common church attendance as 
a community of interest sufficient to support District 5’s configuration. Adams 
Dep. 52:4-9; Clark Dep. 74:21-23; A. Jones Dep. 36:19-37:2; J. Jones Dep. 86:21- 
87:3; Lowry Dep. 33:21-24; Deposition of Leila Darlene Richardson [Doc. 136] 
(“Richardson Dep.”) 15:7-17; Deposition of Elverta Jean Williams [Doc. 137] 
(“Williams Dep.”) 35:16-25.

15



Case 3 :ll-cv-Q 0123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 16 of 57

In the end, Plaintiffs are left with three possible communities of interest to 

support the creation of District 5 on the Illustrative Plan: (1) membership in the 

NAACP; (2) frustration with the at-large electoral system; and (3) race. Plaintiffs 

have submitted no evidence that the boundaries of District 5 are driven by the 

locations of members of the NAACP. To the contrary, Cooper had no idea which 

civic organizations existed in the county or where individuals lived when drawing 

the plan. Cooper Dep. 284:23-285:7; 285:20-24. To the extent a common belief 

can even constitute a community of interest,7 Plaintiffs have offered no evidence of 

unanimous or even any support of district voting by individuals who are located in 

the proposed District 5, so this possible community of interest is not the reason 

behind its creation. Plaintiffs are left with the one community of interest in District 

5: race, which is an inappropriate consideration for this Court as part of a remedial 

plan.

Plaintiffs’ attempt to discredit Morgan’s finding that there are three separate 

population centers of African-Americans in the county is foiled by the testimony of

Plaintiffs cite no authority for the proposition that agreement on a single issue 
creates a community of interest for purposes of redistricting. Other “communities 
of interest” identified by Plaintiffs include senior citizens, card players, the 
Democratic Party, and people who have the same concerns and positions on 
regulations. Williams Dep. 36:16-37:2; A. Jones Dep. 64:8-14. Other Plaintiffs had 
no idea what a community of interest was. Clark Dep. 76:19-77:13; J. Jones Dep. 
88:17-19; Lowry Dep. 36:20-37:4; Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 62:13-19; Ali 
Abdur-Rahman Dep. 44:9-11.

16



Case 3:ll-cv-00123~TCB Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 17 of 57

Plaintiffs' expert and Plaintiffs themselves. Cooper admitted that Morgan is an 

expert in redistricting and demographics. Cooper Dep. 57:14-17. As Morgan 

explained, he did not base his analysis of the separateness of these three areas 

based on his drive through Fayette County but instead on his analysis of the 

demographics and population. Morgan Dep. 143:1-145:10. The intervening white 

population between the African-American population centers was the key to 

determining the geographic dispersion of the minority community. Morgan Dep. 

144:19-145:10. In addition, at least two Plaintiffs agree that African-American 

individuals in Fayette County do not all live in the same area. Williams Dep. 41:7- 

14; DuBose Dep. 60:12-61:3. Courts should look specifically at the geographic 

dispersion of the minority community as part of a Section 2 analysis, and Plaintiffs 

have offered no evidence to counter Morgan's conclusion. See Johnson, 922 

F.Supp. at 1566; Morgan Report *̂ | 24, 30-31.

Plaintiffs do not have to present a plan that perfectly represents all 

communities of interest, however defined, but the communities of interest 

Plaintiffs allege are the basis for the drawing of District 5 do not and cannot 

explain its shape. Plaintiffs' inability to explain the shape of District 5 on any 

grounds other than race yet again supports the finding of racial predominance in its 

creation.

17



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 18 of 57

2. Plaintiffs Misstate the Standard fo r  Determining a Racial 
Gerrymander.

Instead of considering the standard for determining a racial gerrymander, 

Plaintiffs base their entire analysis of the Illustrative Plan not being a racial 

gerrymander on Shaw v. Hunt, 517 U.S. 899, 116 S.Ct. 1894 (1996). Plaintiffs 

misstate the standard for determining a racial gerrymander: it is not limited merely 

to whether the mapdrawer intended to maximize the minority population or 

testifies that race did not predominate.8

Although Plaintiffs argue that the use of “traditional redistricting principles” 

rescues the Illustrative Plan from a Shaw violation, it does not. As Plaintiffs' expert 

conceded, even a plan that adheres to some traditional redistricting principles can 

be a racial gerrymander. The plan referenced by Plaintiffs drawn at 53.58% 

African-American VAP was drawn by Cooper to be a racial gerrymander. Cooper 

Dep. 176:2-16. That plan keeps precincts whole ( Cooper Dep. 177:1-178:21), falls 

within a ten percent population threshold (Cooper Dep. 178:22-179:9), and

g
Plaintiffs' reliance on comparing District 5 with the shapes of “Baldwin, Bulloch, 

and Newton” county districts [Doc. 110-1, p. 25] is inexplicable. Besides the fact 
that none of those counties neighbor Fayette County, Plaintiffs’ expert disavowed 
any knowledge of whether those plans that were attached to his report were 
currently in force, were drawn by a court or the General Assembly, followed 
precinct boundaries, were properly apportioned, had any protected districts under 
Section 5, or had any other local considerations that drove the shapes of the 
districts involved. Cooper Dep. 200:15-209:18.

18



Case 3:ll-cv-00123~TCB Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 19 of 57

otherwise follows some traditional redistricting principles (Cooper Dep. 178:12- 

21). Thus, Plaintiffs’ argument that, simply because the Illustrative Plan may 

follow some traditional redistricting principles it is not a racial gerrymander, does 

not even meet the standard enunciated by their own expert.

The method for determining a racial gerrymander focuses on whether race 

was the predominant factor in drafting the plan, and reviewing the Illustrative Plan 

in light of Supreme Court precedent leads to the inescapable conclusion that race 

was the predominant factor in drawing that plan. See [Doc. 108-2, pp. 12-17]. The 

low compactness scores, racial character of split precincts, and lack of any 

coherent community of interest beyond race (which, as discussed above is not 

appropriately a community of interest) makes the majority-minority district on the 

Illustrative Plan unexplainable on grounds other than race. [Doc. 108-2, pp. 12-17]; 

Hunt, 526 U.S. at 547-548.

3. Plaintiffs ’ Cannot Save Their Racial Gerrynnander by Claiming 
it is Necessary' fo r  Section 2 Compliance.

Undoubtedly recognizing their plan to be a racial gerrymander. Plaintiffs 

next propose that the Illustrative Plan can meet strict scrutiny because it is 

"‘necessary for Section 2 compliance.” [Doc. 110-1, p. 26], Plaintiffs, however, 

cite no precedent to support the idea that Section 2 requires the creation of a 

racially-gerrymandered majority-minority district, much less that creation of such a

19



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 20 of 57

district in an effort to comply with Section 2 is a compelling state interest. Indeed, 

the Supreme Court has consistently found that jurisdictions that use racial 

gerrymanders to comply with Section 2 were not interpreting Section 2 correctly. 

See, e.g., Shaw, 517 U.S. at 911; Miller, 515 U.S. at 921.

Such a theory also flies in the face of the clear rule in this Circuit that the 

prong one plan must be a remedy that can be ordered by the Court. Nipper, 39 F.3d 

at 1530-31. Courts cannot order racial gerrymanders as remedial plans. [Doc. 108- 

2, pp. 18-19]; Abrams, 521 U.S. at 90; Wright v. City o f  Albany, 306 F.Supp.2d 

1228, 1235 (M.D. Ga. 2003). Plaintiffs’ Illustrative Plan is a racial gerrymander 

and thus cannot be used to meet the first prong of Gingles. Nipper, 39 F.3d at 

1530-31.

4. Plaintiffs Are Not Entitled to Summary Judgment on Prong One 
o f  Gingles.

Plaintiffs have failed to carry their burden to provide this Court with an 

appropriate remedy to meet prong one of Gingles. Instead, Plaintiffs have 

conceded the exact opposite point: their sole reliance on a racial gerrymander 

requires summary judgment in favor of County Defendants.

20



Case 3 :ll-cv-0Q 123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 21 of 57

C. Plaintiffs’ Have Not Shown the Totality of the Circumstances 
Supports Their Claims.

If the Court determines that Plaintiffs cannot cany their burden on the first 

prong of Gingles, the analysis of their Section 2 claim ends. “In a § 2 case, only 

when a party has established the Gingles requirements does a court proceed to 

analyze whether a violation has occurred based on the totality of the 

circumstances.” Bartlett v. Strickland, 556 U.S. 1, 11-12, 129 S. Ct. 1231, 1241,

173 L. Ed. 2d 173 (2009).

However, meeting the Gingles test alone does not entitle Plaintiffs to 

summary judgment. This Court must still consider the totality of the circumstances, 

and a plaintiff may still fail to show a violation of Section 2 under the totality of 

the circumstances even after showing all three Gingles prongs. Johnson v. De 

Grandy, 512 U.S. 997, 1009-1012, 114 S.Ct. 2647, 129 L.Ed.2d 775 (1994);

Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1513-1514. Plaintiffs must show that the voting practice at 

issue— at-large voting—denies them access to the political process “on account of 

their race.” Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1523. Merely showing electoral defeat or even a 

tendency of racial groups in the county to support differing candidates is not 

enough; to support a Section 2 claim, those instances must be explained by “the 

interaction of racial bias in the community with the challenged voting scheme.”

21



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 22 of 57

Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1524. This heavy burden is not one that Plaintiffs can carry in 

Fayette County.

Plaintiffs correctly state the standard for the totality of the circumstances 

analysis. [Doc. 110-1, pp. 31-32], However, this Court should review all of the 

Senate Factors, not just the ones chosen by Plaintiffs, in order to determine 

whether the “social and historical conditions” in the county cause an inequality of 

opportunity. Gingles, 478 U.S. at 47.

1. Senate Factor 1: the extent o f  any history o f official 
discrimination.

The first Senate factor reviews the “the extent of any history of official 

discrimination in the state or political subdivision that touched the right of the 

members of the minority group to register, to vote, or otherwise to participate in 

the democratic process.” Gingles, 478 U.S. at 36-37. While the regrettable past 

discrimination in Georgia as a whole is not in doubt, Plaintiffs do not point to any 

specific examples of discrimination in the political subdivision at issue in this 

litigation: Fayette County.

The earliest any Plaintiff moved to Fayette County was 1989. Most Plaintiffs 

retired to Fayette County after concluding all or most of their working life. Adams 

Dep. 7:19-21 (moved to Fayette in 1990); Clark Dep. 7:7-9 (moved to Fayette in 

1993 from New York); A. Jones Dep. 7:13-8:6 (moved to Fayette in 1997; born in

22



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 23 of 57

Pennsylvania); J. Jones Dep. 7:13-15 (moved to Fayette in 1997); Lowry Dep. 

6:18-25 (moved to Fayette in 1989 from Washington, D.C.); Ali Abdur-Rahman 

Dep. 6:24-7:1 (moved to Fayette in 2005); Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 7:17-20 

(moved to Fayette in late 2004); Richardson Dep. 6:23-7:7 (moved to Fayette in 

2003 from Buckhead area); Williams Dep. 6:17-22 (moved to Fayette in 1998 from 

Minnesota); Wright Dep. 6:23-25 (moved to Fayette in 2002).

No Plaintiff has ever been denied the right to vote or prohibited from 

registering to vote or participating in the political process in Fayette County based 

on his or her race. Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 40:24-41:13; Ali Abdur-Rahman 

Dep. 29:6-13; Adams Dep. 34:21-35:3; Clark Dep. 43:20-44:1; A. Jones Dep. 

37:3-11; J. Jones Dep. 33:25-34:6; Lowry Dep. 21:16-22; Richardson Dep. 34:14- 

19; Williams Dep. 27:2-11; Wright Dep. 22:19-23:4; DuBose Dep. 48:4-18.

While Plaintiffs wish to make much of the “admissions” of the Board of 

Education Defendants, counsel for the Board of Education indicated to this Court 

that he worked hard to “conserve the resources of the school district.” [Doc. 85, p. 

42:22-25]. Settling on terms proposed by Plaintiffs was obviously part of that 

process, but this Court properly denied a settlement on those terms. [Doc. 70].

Furthermore, Plaintiffs’ own numbers, to the extent they mean anything, 

demonstrate that more than 10% of school districts in Georgia still use at-large

23



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 24 of 57

voting, [Doc. 110-1, p. 34 n.21]. Although repeatedly referred to as a 

"discriminatory method of election” by Plaintiffs, at-large voting schemes are 

neither per se discriminatory nor unconstitutional. U.S. v. Dallas County 

Commission, Dallas County, Ala., 850 F.2d 1433, 1438 (11th Cir. 1988). In short, 

Fayette County is far from the only county using an at-large voting system, and the 

mere use of the system does not meet the standard required of Plaintiffs under 

Section 2.

While voting discrimination is a fact of Georgia’s history, that is not the case 

today. There has been no showing by Plaintiffs that the at-large system was 

adopted in Fayette County as part of that history; that Fayette County has ever 

taken any steps to discriminate against voters based on race; or that any member of 

a minority group in Fayette County has ever had their rights to register, vote, or 

participate in the political process affected by the county. The first Senate factor, 

therefore, weighs against Plaintiffs.

2. Senate Factor 2: racial polarization in voting.

The second factor reviews “the extent to which voting in the elections of the 

state or political subdivision is racially polarized.” Gingles, 478 U.S. at 37. This 

factor is largely a restatement of the second prong of Gingles, something Plaintiffs 

must prove to reach consideration of the Senate factors. As noted above in Section

24



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 25 of 57

A, County Defendants do not dispute that Dr. Richard Engstrom’s analysis appears 

to show racial polarization in voting but leaves unanswered the question of 

whether the appearance of polarization is due to politics or race.

As the Eleventh Circuit recognizes, bloc voting is only one factor, and if a 

defendant can show '‘under the totality of the circumstances, that racial bias does 

not play a major role in the political community,” Plaintiffs cannot win even 

having proven bloc voting. Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1525 n.60. In addition, when 

partisan affiliation best explains divergent voting patterns, there is no racial bias 

that shows a Section 2 claim. Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1525.

3. Senate Factor 3: use o f  other discriminatory voting practices.

The third factor reviews “the extent to which the state or political 

subdivision has used unusually large election districts, majority vote requirements, 

anti-single shot provisions, or other voting practices or procedures that may 

enhance the opportunity for discrimination against the minority group.” Gingles, 

478 U.S. at 37.

First, and most importantly, not a single Plaintiff could identify any 

discriminatory voting practice used by Fayette County government other than the 

at-large system, which Plaintiffs erroneously believe is discriminatory. Adams

25



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 26 of 57

Dep. 41:18-21; Clark D ep.9 57:20-58:3; A. Jones Dep. 46:4-15; J. Jones Dep. 

36:12-18; Lowry Dep. 21:11-22:7; Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 51:6-11; Aisha Abdur- 

Rahman Dep. 46:18-25; Richardson Dep. 34:14-19; Williams Dep. 27:2-11;

Wright Dep. 22:17-23:4; DuBose Dep. 48:14-49:24.

Furthermore, Plaintiffs’ complaint that the Board of Commissioners districts 

were problematic because they were unusually large before being redrawn by this 

Court in 2012 is contrary to the efforts of five of these Plaintiffs to return the 

County to the malapportioned militia districts based on their affidavits filed in 

Lindsey v. Fayette County Board o f Commissioners, Case No. 3:12-CV-0040-TCB 

[Docs. 16-1, Tfij 17-18; 16-2, ^  17-18; 16-3, Hf 13-14; 16-4,^15-16; 16-5 ,^17- 

18].

Finally, there is no support for Plaintiffs’ position that the four listed 

practices are always discriminatory. This Senate factor requires instead that a court 

review the electoral structure of the jurisdiction as a whole. U.S. v. Dallas County 

Commission, 739 F.2d 1529, 1536-37 (11th Cir. 1984). For example, the lack o f a 

residency requirement in one case cited by Plaintiffs was shown to favor a finding

9 Mr. Clark believed that the county had a police presence at polling stations that 
could possibly be discriminatory, but could not remember any instance or election 
where this took place. Clark Dep. 59:16-21.

26



Case 3:ll-cv-00123~TCB Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 27 of 5/

of discrimination when combined with numbered posts. Lodge v. Buxton, 639 F.2d 

1358, 1380 (5th Cir. Unit B 1981 ).10

The first two items on Plaintiffs7 list, when combined, are not discriminatory 

based on Eleventh Circuit precedent. A residency requirement does not “provide 

probative evidence on the question of dilution7' when it is used with a mechanism 

like numbered posts. Dallas County Commission, 739 F.2d at 1537. While 

numbered posts have “potential effects77 that might be discriminatory, Dallas 

County Commission, 739 F.2d at 1536, Plaintiffs have not explained how such is 

the case in Fayette County.

Plaintiffs next complain about the use of staggered terms. It seems odd for

Plaintiffs to complain that this practice is discriminatory when Plaintiffs agreed to

a settlement containing staggered terms earlier in this litigation. [Doc. 54-8, p. 11].

In addition, the only Section 2 case Plaintiffs cite with respect to staggered terms

discusses the use of that practice as a way to defeat “single-shot voting,”

something which is not an option in Fayette County. See Jackson v. Edgefield

County, 650 F.Supp. 1176, 1202-1203 (D. S.C. 1986). The only other case cited by

Plaintiffs on this topic is not a Section 2 case but a preclearance case in which the

U.S. Supreme Court found that the lack of the ability to use single-shot voting

10 Decisions by Unit B of the Fifth Circuit are binding authority on the Eleventh 
Circuit. Stein v. Reynolds Sec., Inc., 667 F.2d 33, 34 (11th Cir. 1982).

27



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 28 of 57

made staggered terms not discriminatory under Section 5. City o f Lockhart v. U.S., 

460 U.S. 125, 135, 103 S.Ct. 998, 74 L.E.2d 863 (1983). Thus, under the authority 

Plaintiffs rely upon, the staggered terms in the County are not discriminatory 

because they are not in place in order to defeat single-shot voting. If Fayette 

County were to eliminate its use of staggered terms, then county commission 

elections would be held only once every four years. In addition, two Plaintiffs who 

were asked about the topic did not believe that eliminating staggered terms would 

help an African-American candidate. A. Jones Dep. 74:1-13; Adams Dep. 62:18-

20 .

Plaintiffs cite no cases in support of their argument that a majority vote 

requirement is a discriminatory practice and do not explain how its use is 

discriminatory in Fayette County. More importantly, most of the individual 

Plaintiffs do not believe a majority vote requirement is actually discriminatory. 

Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 46:1-14 (majority vote not discriminatory if used in 

districts); Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 32:15-21 (majority vote not discriminatory); 

Adams Dep. 40:25-41:12 (no opinion on whether majority vote is good or bad); 

Clark Dep. 49:8-15 (majority vote hinders minorities in at-large but not in district 

system); A. Jones Dep. 75:6-11 (not requiring majority vote not good public 

policy); Lowry Dep. 26:1-11 (candidates should get majority of the vote).

28



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 29 of 57

Other cases cited by Plaintiffs are irrelevant, not in accordance with 

Eleventh Circuit precedent, or simply not helpful in evaluating this factor. Dillard 

v. Town o f  Louisville, 730 F.Supp. 1546, 1549 (M.D. Ala. 1990) (approval of 

Section 2 settlement with city that included a majority-minority district that was 

non-contiguous); Dillard v. Crenshaw County, 640 F.Supp. 1347 (M.D. Ala. 1986) 

(ruling on preliminary injunction and res judicata on constitutional claims related 

to discriminatory intent); US, v. City o f  Euclid, 580 F.Supp.2d 584, 607 (N.D.

Ohio 2008) (finding numbered posts without residency requirements enhanced the 

discriminatory effect by concentrating elected officials in one area).

Plaintiffs have not shown that any of the four stated practices are in fact 

discriminatoiy or that any other voting practice or procedure affects the minority- 

community in Fayette County in any negative way. The third Senate factor weighs 

against Plaintiffs.

4. Senate Factor 4: candidate slating process.

The fourth factor reviews “if there is a candidate slating process, whether the 

members of the minority group have been denied access to that process."' Gingles, 

478 U.S. at 37. There is no candidate slating process and Plaintiffs do not argue 

there is any candidate slating process in Fayette County elections (see, e.g., Wright 

Dep. 25:22-26:2), so this factor does not weigh in their favor.

29



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 30 of 57

5. Senate Factor 5: bearing effects o f  past discrimination.

The fifth factor reviews “the extent to which members of the minority group 

in the state or political subdivision bear the effects of discrimination in such areas 

as education, employment and health, which hinder their ability to participate 

effectively in the political process.” Gingles, 478 U.S. at 37. Plaintiffs 

conveniently ignore this factor, perhaps because, as their expert recognized, “Both 

African-Americans and the non-Hispanic white population in the two cities and 

really in the whole county are very well off. I mean, this is not a desperately poor 

county. People are very prosperous.” Cooper Dep. 138:4-8; see also Deposition of 

Steve Brown [Docs. 112, 113] (“Brown Dep.”) 67:22-68:5 (“African-Americans in 

Fayette County are not that distinctively different from their white counterparts”).

Plaintiffs have not alleged that any member of a minority group in Fayette 

County bears any effects of discrimination in the areas of education, employment, 

or health. As Plaintiffs themselves stated (many of whom retired to Fayette County 

by choice), there are no effects of discrimination in the county that negatively 

affect the ability o f the minority community to participate in the political process. 

Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 50:25-51:8; Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 33:20-34:12; 

Adams Dep. 43:25-44:6; Clark Dep. 62:5-62:11; A. Jones Dep. 49:17-50:11; J. 

Jones Dep. 51:16-52:1; 56:15-18; Lowry Dep. 27:1-20; Richardson Dep. 39:11-

30



Case 3:ll-cv~00123-TCB Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 31 of 57

40:8; Wright Dep. 26:7-21; DuBose Dep. 54:5-22. Thus, Plaintiffs freely admit 

that past discrimination does not reduce participation or influence in political 

affairs in the county. See U.S. v. Marengo County Commission, 731 F.2d 1546, 

1567 (11th Cir. 1984) (purpose of past discrimination factor is that, where it 

occurs, it can “reduce participation and influence in political affairs”).

In fact, Plaintiffs went beyond just agreeing that no members of the minority 

group bear such effects—several Plaintiffs identified the education system of 

Fayette as having a good academic reputation and as a reason people move to the 

county. Clark Dep. 61:8-14; A. Jones Dep. 49:17-50:11; J. Jones Dep. 43:23-44:6; 

Lowry Dep. 26:12-17; Wright Dep. 26:7-21. While one Plaintiff made generalized 

allegations about isolated incidents involving students in schools that might have 

racial overtones, he also agreed that the incidents did not affect the ability of 

African-Americans to participate in politics.n J. Jones Dep. 45:18-52:1.

Indeed, Plaintiffs are not limited in their ability to pursue the political 

process. As they explain, they attempted to work directly through the Georgia

11 The generalized claims of racial problems made by Mr. Jones (who is also 
president of the local branch of the NAACP) involved private entities, a single 
anonymous letter, or generalized allegations for which he could not provide any 
specific infonnation about the incidents. See generally, J. Jones Dep. 45:18-56:14. 
Mr. Jones further identified the word “conservative” in political campaigns as a 
coded racial appeal, along with alleging that those who do not favor district voting 
hold “white supremacist views.” J. Jones Dep. 57:25-58:2; 82:17-25.

31



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 32 of 57

General Assembly to achieve their political end of district voting but ultimately 

were not successful. [Doc. 110-1, p. 45 n.32].

Plaintiffs undoubtedly wish to avoid the Court’s review of this Senate factor 

because it heavily favors County Defendants. As Plaintiffs and their expert 

recognize, the affluence of the county extends across racial boundaries and 

African-Americans are not held back from full participation in the county’s 

political processes. Simply stated, there are no hindrances to Plaintiffs’ 

participation in the political process in Fayette County that are the effect of 

discrimination.

6. Senate Factor 6: racial appeals in campaigns.

The sixth factor reviews “whether political campaigns have been 

characterized by overt or subtle racial appeals.” Gingles, 478 U.S. at 37. The cases

cited by Plaintiffs (in a footnote) do not provide any direction or standard for this

12Court regarding campaigns characterized by racial appeals.

12 Johnson v. Hamrick, 155 F.Supp.2d 1355, 1377 (N.D. Ga. 2001) (plaintiffs 
failed to show third prong of Gingles; cursory review of totality of circumstances 
showed no evidence-of overt or subtle racial appeals); Cofield v. City o f  LaGrange, 
969 F.Supp. 749, 777 (N.D. Ga. 1997) (evidence that debate about consolidation of 
local schools was marked by racial appeals; no specific standard cited); Brooks v. 
State Bd. o f  Elections, 848 F. Supp. 1548, 1561 (S.D. Ga. 1994) appeal dismissed 
and remanded sub nom. Brooks v. Georgia State Bd. o f  Elections, 59 F.3d 1114 
(11th Cir. 1995) (noting that stipulation between parties did not address racial 
appeal issue); Jordan v. Winter, 604 F.Supp. 807, 813 (N.D. Miss. 1984)

32



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 33 of 57

The word “characterized” in this factor is significant in light of the fact that 

most of Plaintiffs said either that they had never seen a racial appeal in Fayette 

County elections or, if they had, could not identify any election where that took 

place. Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 53:12-22 (no racial appeals in elections); Ali 

Abdur-Rahman Dep. 34:18-35:18 (referenced 2010 midterm elections but could 

not recall candidates or appeal); Adams Dep. 44:14-45:14 (described a picture of 

candidate on signs as a racial appeal he could think of but could not recall any 

elections in Fayette using the same); Clark Dep. 63:2-7 (no racial appeals in 

elections); DuBose Dep. 54:23-55:11 (no racial appeals except possibly in 2006 

special election); Lowry Dep. 37:17-38:1 (no racial appeals); Williams Dep. 31:17- 

25 (racial appeals happen but could not recall any elections where this occurred in 

Fayette).

Plaintiffs reference three alleged racial appeals in the history of Fayette 

County: (1) the use of the word “heritage” by a candidate in a 2006 special 

election, (2) opposition to district voting in the same 2006 special election, and (3) 

references to not wanting to be like certain surrounding counties in unspecified 

elections. [Doc. 110-1, pp. 39-40]. Plaintiffs call these “racial” appeals based

(television ad featuring Confederate imagery and slogan “he’s one of us” was 
racial appeal).

33



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 34 of 57

13 isolely on their “understanding” of what certain comments meant but, 

interestingly, did not argue that other “understandings” of Plaintiffs constituted 

racial appeals, such as Mr. Jones’ understanding that the word “conservative” is 

such an appeal. [Doc. 110-1, pp. 39-40]; J. Jones Dep. 57:2-13.

Plaintiffs first argue that Commissioner Horgan’s comment in the 2006

special election about “heritage” to be inflammatory but ignore the context of

Commissioner Horgan’s explanation in the article quoted and never even asked

Commissioner Horgan what he meant by that comment. The unrebutted testimony

(beyond Plaintiffs’ imagination about what the comment might have meant) is that

Commissioner Horgan was referring to “the rural, neighborly character of the

county as opposed to being a metropolitan Atlanta county” and “related to the

traditions of the county and had no racial component.” County Defendants’

Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First Requests for Admission [Doc. 110-4],

13 This is not the first time Plaintiffs have applied a factually incorrect 
“understanding” to a statement of a Fayette official. For example, Mr. Jones 
reported that, in a meeting with then-Commissioner Greg Dunn, Mr. Dunn had said 
“that the blacks are getting agitated up there on the north side, that y ’all need to 
know that -  y ’all -  we just want you to pay your taxes and keep your grass cut.” J. 
Jones Dep. 63:20-24. But when Plaintiffs asked Mr. Dunn about this conversation, 
the actual comment was in response to a question of whether black people were 
welcome in Fayette County. Mr. Dunn’s response was that “yeah, if they pay their 
taxes and cut their grass, what do we care?” Mr. Dunn explained that by that 
statement he obviously was referring to “[b]eing a good citizen.” Dunn Dep.
140:24-141:5. Mr. Dunn strongly denied ever making a comment about the “blacks 
getting agitated.” Dunn Dep. 141:7-20.

34



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 35 of 57

No. 9; County Defendants’ Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First 

Interrogatories [Doc. 110-35], No. 9.

The comment made by Commissioner Morgan in his deposition is not a 

racial appeal in the context of an election, and the attempt to paint Commissioner 

Morgan as a racist (claiming Commissioner Horgan “exposed himself’) [Doc. 110- 

1, p. 39] flies in the face of the testimony in this case. Commissioner Florgan’s 

response about children came in response to a series of questions by Plaintiffs’ 

counsel about Commissioner Morgan’s personal relationships with people of color. 

Commissioner Horgan was naming a number of individuals including neighbors, 

social relationships, having minority visitors in his home, and having minority 

children play baseball on the same team with his children. Deposition of Robert 

Horgan [Doc. 117] (“Horgan Dep.”) 49:3-51:14. Commissioner Horgan has 

appointed several minority individuals to county commission boards. Horgan Dep. 

40:7-43:5. Commissioner Morgan’s comments were apparently not considered an 

issue at the time of his deposition, as Plaintiffs’ counsel did not even follow up 

after the complained-of comment. Horgan Dep. 49:19-50:8.

The second racial appeal alleged is that, generally, “single member 

redistricting has been a racially charged issue.” [Doc. 110-1, p. 39]. Plaintiffs 

provide no support for this statement or the idea that white voters only support

35



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 36 of 57

white candidates who oppose district voting. The testimony of at least one 

commissioner is that the NAACP and an African-American state representative 

turned the issue of district voting into a “politically racially-charged” issue in 

approximately 2006. Brown Dep. 32:4-33:13. There is no support for the idea that 

the debate in the county about whether to adopt single member districts shows that 

racial appeals characterize county elections, especially when current and former 

commissioners believe that most people in the county oppose district voting, 

regardless o f  their race. Brown Dep. 68:24-70:12; Frady Dep. 117:17-118:3; 

Deposition of Bennett Lee Hearn [Doc. 116] (“Hearn Dep.”) 55:13-56:2; Smith 

Dep. 58:7-19.

The final racial appeal alleged by Plaintiffs is that references to “not wanting 

to be like” surrounding counties, which have district voting, is a racial appeal. This 

is a curious assertion, especially when Plaintiffs themselves recognized the 

significant problems in governance in the surrounding counties, such as Clayton 

County, that were completely unrelated to race. Adams Dep. 46:15-47:12 (Clayton 

and Fulton); A. Jones Dep. 56:19-57:22 (agreeing Clayton county is “a mess”); 

Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 21:4-5 (wanting to control “out-of-county traffic” at 

Kenwood Park). As Commissioner Brown explained, he believes many of the 

governance problems in counties like Clayton County and counties like Gwinnett

36



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 37 of 57

and Coweta (which are not majority-minority) can be traced back to district voting. 

Brown Dep. 113:1-115:10.

Even assuming the comment at issue is somehow a racial appeal. Plaintiffs 

could not identify any election in which this kind of comment was made. Mr. 

Adams’ only reference to such a statement was that a fellow citizen said it at a 

commission meeting, not that any elected official or county official ever said this, 

let alone in the context of a campaign . Adams Dep. 45:15-46:14. Similarly, Ms. 

Jones’ only reference to such a comment was by a member of Congress, not a 

county official, in a commission meeting instead of a campaign. A. Jones Dep. 

56:1-6.

The undisputed facts show that not one of the statements cited by Plaintiffs 

is actually a racial appeal in the context of elections. Even assuming the 2006 

“heritage” comment could be construed as a racial appeal, Plaintiffs have identified 

one word out of the entire history of county commission elections, which have 

taken place every two years for decades. If one word in one election out of 

hundreds of years means that the electoral system in the county is “characterized” 

by racial appeals, “characterized” has lost all meaning. This Senate factor weighs 

heavily against Plaintiffs.

37



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 38 of 57

7. Senate Factor 7: extent o f  election o f members o f the minority 
group.

The seventh factor reviews “the extent to which members of the minority 

group have been elected to public office in the jurisdiction.” Gingles, 478 U.S. at 

37. Plaintiffs are correct that Magistrate Judge Charles Floyd is the only African- 

American elected to a countywide office, although Ed Johnson, a former president 

of the local NAACP chapter, was elected to the Fayetteville City Council in 2011. 

County Defendants’ Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First Requests tor 

Admission [Doc. 110-4], No. 11.

While Plaintiffs are quick to state their belief that this lack of electoral 

success is “a result” of the at-large election system, they are apparently exercising 

the age-old logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc.14 As the Eleventh Circuit 

recognized, “[e]ven consistent defeat at the polls by a racial minority does not, in 

and of itself, give rise to constitutional claims.” Lodge, 639 F.2d at 1362. This 

Court must determine whether the defeats were due to race or politics, and if the 

losses are attributable to partisan politics, Section 2 is not implicated. Nipper, 39 

F.3d at 1525.

14 “After this, therefore because of this,” the fallacy of “assuming causality from 
temporal sequence.” Black’s Law D ictionary, post hoc (9th ed. 2009).

38



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 39 of 57

Not surprisingly, the facts show that electoral defeats of African-American 

candidates in Fayette County have nothing to do with their race, despite Plaintiffs’ 

beliefs to the contrary. For example, Emory Wilkerson has run from many political 

parties (Brown Dep. 52:12-23, 53:17-21), Dave Simmons trumpeted his experience 

in Detroit which was politically unpopular in the County (Brown Dep. 52:24- 

53:16), Malcolm Hughes did not campaign for office when he ran (Brown Dep. 

53:22-54:2), and Charles Rousseau did not show up to events during his campaign 

(Horgan Dep. 76:6-10). When the 2006 special election was held, the African- 

American vote was split by four different candidates running, but black candidates 

received a total of 49% of the county’s vote. Deposition of Gregory Martin Dunn 

[Doc. 114] (“Dunn Dep.”) 40:22-41:19. Plaintiffs have not shown that the lack of 

electoral success is due to the race of the candidates who ran or even that white 

voters refuse to vote for black candidates—in fact, the undisputed testimony shows 

just the opposite.

In spite of this Senate factor’s requirement of electoral success, Plaintiffs 

engage in a discussion about African-Americans appointed to boards and 

committees by the members of the Commission. [Doc. 110-1, p. 41]. This is not an 

appropriate inquiry for this Senate factor, which focuses on elections, but even if 

this Court considers appointments, Plaintiffs do not provide any specifics about the

39



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 40 of 57

number of appointments. While Commissioners may not have appointed as many 

African-American individuals to various county boards as Plaintiffs wish, this is in 

part due to the lack of interest by some qualified individuals. Horgan Dep. 50:9- 

51:9. That fact is borne out by testimony from some Plaintiffs. Clark Dep. 66:19- 

24 (not interested in serving); Lowry Dep. 32:8-25 (applied, but was unable to 

serve on two different committees due to job responsibilities). In addition,

Plaintiffs have not identified how many openings have become available or which 

have been filled by white applicants as opposed to African-American applicants, so 

it is impossible to determine whether the Commission has actually appointed 

“precious few” individuals of color to Boards, as Plaintiffs allege.

Plaintiffs’ belief that the existing appointment process is designed to 

discourage African-American applicants is unsupported and is factually incorrect. 

Any individual can apply for an appointment position at the county offices. Brown 

D ep.l51:9-152:14. Although Ms. Jones has made open-ended public requests to be 

on a board, she apparently has never met with individual commissioners to discuss 

the opportunities. Horgan Dep. 52:2-10. Obviously, individuals who want to be 

appointed should pursue that involvement, like they would pursue employment. 

Plorgan Dep. 52:2-10. Other Plaintiffs have simply never applied or were unable to 

serve. Clark Dep. 66:19-24 (not interested in serving); Lowry Dep. 32:8-25

40



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 41 of 57

(applied, but was unable to serve on two different committees due to job 

responsibilities).

Because Plaintiffs are unable to demonstrate that the lack of electoral 

success in Fayette is caused by the at-large voting system, this factor weighs 

against Plaintiffs' claims.

8. Additional Factor: lack o f  responsiveness to needs.

In addition to the seven Senate factors, the Supreme Court stated the Court 

may also consider two additional factors that are raised by Plaintiffs. The first of 

these additional factors is “whether there is a significant lack of responsiveness on 

the part of elected officials to the particularized needs of the members of the 

minority group.’' Gingles, 478 U.S. at 37. Plaintiffs identify a number of alleged 

unresponsiveness to “needs," none of which support their position under this 

factor.

First, as almost all Plaintiffs agreed, there are no particularized needs of the 

minority community in Fayette County that are any different than those of the 

white community. Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 54:10-56:9 (only particularized need 

is district voting); Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 36:10-15 (all have the same needs); 

Adams Dep. 64:17-65:20 (only different need is need of self-worth); Clark Dep. 

64:7-65:16 (needs are the same regardless of race); DuBose Dep. 56:17-22 (needs

41



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 42 of 57

are not different); A. Jones Dep. 58:20-59:1 (same needs and desires); J. Jones 

Dep. 69:1-15 (needs are generally the same); Lowry Dep. 30:5-31:5 (needs mostly 

based on region); Richardson Dep. 46:10-47:6 (needs are not different; interests 

are same regardless of race); Williams Dep. 32:7-13 (needs are about the same); 

Wright Dep. 28:14-29:3 (doesn’t know of any different needs based on race). If 

there are no particularized needs, then there cannot be a lack of response to those 

needs.

Second, in order for the County to respond to any needs, there must be a 

request for a response. Most of the Plaintiffs have never contacted the county or 

contacted the county only once. Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 48:22-49:14 (never 

contacted commission about any issue); Adams Dep. 23:21-24:16, 30:7-20 (never 

contacted county about any issue besides district voting); Clark Dep. 34:15-18, 

37:1-15. (never contacted anyone at the county regarding maintenance issues; only 

time ever contacted county was regarding an odor in the water but was unsure 

whether county ran the water system); Richardson Dep. 33:16-34:10 (never 

contacted commission about anything); Williams Dep. 34:17-35:9 (never requested 

anything from county; only contact was in support of neighbor’s request for traffic 

light that was later installed); Wright Dep. 29:4-13 (never contacted county on any 

issue).

42



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 43 of 57

Third, Plaintiffs direct most of their fire at the Commission’s failure to adopt

a resolution in support of district voting. County Defendants readily acknowledge

that individuals have been requesting district voting in the county' for a long period

of time by appearing at Commission meetings, writing op-eds, and taking other

steps to make their political case.15 Plaintiffs apparently fail to comprehend that

individual voters in Fayette County make hundreds of requests during public

comment periods at Commission meetings. Deposition of Jesse Allen McCarty

[Doc. 118] (“McCarty Dep.”) 80:22-81:15. If Commissioners implemented

everything requested by every voter, the county would go bankrupt because voters

often request things like cutting all taxes in half. McCarty Dep. 92:1-22.

15 Plaintiffs’ complaint that County Defendants did not provide enough meeting 
minutes in discovery is baffling. [Doc. 110-1, p. 42 n.30]. As County Defendants 
advised Plaintiffs, meeting minutes are retained permanently. Letter from A. Lewis 
to R.'Haygood, April 25, 2012, attached as Ex. V. When Plaintiffs first requested 
meeting minutes for the twice-monthly meetings covering a 32-year period from 
1980-2012, County Defendants produced all minutes that were readily available— 
from 2001 to 2012, covering 3,699 pages (Bates numbers FAYETTE000011- 
003372; FAYETTE003376-003710). County Defendants then conducted an 
additional search and located minutes from the 1990s that included references to 
district voting and provided those to Plaintiffs. When Plaintiffs renewed their 
request for minutes for the entire 32-year period, County Defendants investigated 
and told Plaintiffs that the older minutes were not easily accessible because they 
were stored in the archives and the county’s IT department advised that fulfilling 
the request would fill more than 80 compact discs. In spite of these difficulties, 
County Defendants still offered to provide additional minutes if Plaintiffs would 
identity the specific dates which they desired. Ex. V. Plaintiffs did not respond and 
never filed a motion to compel production of those minutes.

43



Case 3:ll-cv~00123~TCB Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 44 of 57

Public officials obviously cannot meet every request by every voter, and 

Plaintiffs’ reliance on the Commission’s failure to adopt a resolution supporting 

their views does not demonstrate nonresponsiveness to the particularized needs of 

the minority community. Indeed, Plaintiffs have not shown that elimination of at- 

large voting is a need unique to African-American voters, that African-American 

voters unanimously support district voting, or even that a majority does so despite 

criticizing County Defendants for not conducting a countywide survey on the 

topic.16 It turns the analysis of the Senate factors on their head to have the question 

of responsiveness relate solely to the voting method at issue in the litigation. 

Plaintiffs have taken a political dispute to this Court, seeking to force a legislative 

victory they have been unable to obtain at the Commission, without any legal or 

factual basis for doing so.

Plaintiffs then turn to a litany of items that allegedly show the Commission 

responded “slowly” to the requests of African-American residents. Even if the 

County did not respond as quickly as Plaintiffs would have liked, Plaintiffs never 

claim that their requests have been gone unmet. Indeed, the delay in addressing

16 Contrary to Plaintiffs’ assertions that County Defendants never studied the issue, 
former Commissioner Smith testified he spent time researching the issue. Smith 
Dep. 32:18-33:19, 37:12-39:7, 84:3-85:8. Commissioner Hearn had personal 
experience dealing with both district and at-large voting systems. Hearn Dep. 
53:19-54:5. Commissioners considered Plaintiffs’ positions and did not agree.

44



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 45 of 57

their requests may be in large part laid at the feet of Plainti ffs, most of whom never 

contacted the Commission or else contacted the wrong entity of county- 

government. As former Commissioner Smith explained in his deposition about a 

Saturday meeting with the North Fayette Community Association, individuals 

present began to “pummel’’ him with statements such as “we don’t get any 

attention when we call,” “we get no response,” “nobody pays any attention to us 

when we contact the county commissioner office.” Smith Dep. 115:19-24. 

Commissioner Smith then said he had to know the specifics of what had been 

requested so he could address it in detail, because the broad statements were not 

helpful. Smith Dep. 116:1-6. He outlined the process that individuals should go 

through when they had a need from the county and asked for a letter outlining 

every request that had been made and promised personally to make sure it was 

addressed. Smith Dep. 116:7-118:2.

After a couple of weeks, he received a letter with seven or eight items on it. 

Smith Dep. 118:3-6. Commissioner Smith began to work personally with the 

county clerk to ensure every request was met. Smith Dep. 118:7-16. Several 

“unmet” requests were situations where members of the association were calling 

the wrong department of the county, such as calling Animal Control instead oi 

Public Works about dead animals on the side of the road. Smith Dep. 118:18-

45



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 46 of 57

119:7. Similarly, complaints about not cutting the grass on medians of particular 

roads were not handled by the county because the roads were state roads, not 

county roads, and the county was prohibited by law from maintaining the medians. 

Smith Dep. 119:8-120:18.

No allegedly unmet need in that letter was the result of negligence by the 

county. Smith Dep. 120:19-23. As Commissioner Smith stated, “There was 

nothing in that list that had any implication that that group was being underserved 

for any reason other than they just didn’t know the right path to follow.” Smith 

Dep. 120:23-121:1. That remains true about the list of allegedly unmet needs in 

Plaintiffs’ brief. For example, some of the complaints directed at the Commission 

about roads are inapposite because the public works department (not the 

Commission) creates the priority list for paving and brings that to the Board for 

approval. Frady Dep. 29:15-30:16. In addition, the County is not responsible for 

paving or repairing every single road that exists within its boundaries. Hearn Dep. 

54:19-55:12 (city and state roads; needs are addressed).

The complaints about Kenwood Park reflect a lack of understanding of the 

reality of the financial situation faced by the County after the 2008 economic 

collapse. Kenwood Park was the only park built by the County from the ground up. 

Brown Dep. 192:12-193:22. The park’s amenities rival the two other parks

46



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 47 of 57

operated by the County, as some Plaintiffs agree.17 Brown Dep. 195:3-196:4; Ali 

Abdur-Rahman Dep. 43:3-10 (used the park every morning). Original construction 

of the park required obtaining a state grant, which took some time and which Ms. 

Jones helped obtain. Brown Dep. 109:17-110:6. The first phase of the park was 

completed just before the economy collapsed in 2008. Brown Dep. 159:1-7. While 

there are county funds allocated to Kenwood Park waiting to be spent, spending 

has been frozen so the county can provide funds for its essential services like 

ambulances and the fire department. Brown Dep. 160:18-161:21. Despite this 

freeze, the County has still moved forward with some improvements at Kenwood 

Park. Brown Dep. 159:8-11.

General allegations about community centers are also unsupported by the 

facts. When Alice Jones requested a YMCA facility in Fayette County, the 

Commission undertook a detailed analysis and found the YMCA wanted the 

County to pay for construction costs of $32 million in their entirety and then turn 

over control of the facility to the YMCA. Smith Dep. 126:7-128:15. The 

Commission then undertook to review whether the County could build and operate

17 Regarding the amenities, Mr. Clark testified that no one requested a track in 
Kenwood Park (Clark Dep. 27:17-25) while Mr. Abdur-Rahman testified about 
how useful the track was (Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 43:3-10). Plaintiffs again 
unwittingly demonstrate that local government is tasked with meeting the 
conflicting desires of its citizens, even among Plaintiffs.

47



Case 3 :ll-cv-0 0 1 2 3 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 48 of 57

the center at a profit, Smith Dep. 128:16-131:16, but just as that review was 

completed, the economy collapsed and county tax revenue dropped precipitously, 

leading to the abandonment o f the idea. Smith Dep. 131:3-16.

Plaintiffs’ view of “nonresponsiveness” is best summed up by Mr. Jones, 

president of the local NAACP:

Q. But the County did eventually respond to those requests to pave the 
road? A. Yes. It just seems to take longer when we make requests for 
something.

Q. Is that based on just kind of your feeling, or do you have specific 
instances where it’s taken a shorter time when white residents make 
requests? A. It’s based on a feeling. But, you know, I don’t have any — I 
can't say that they act any faster on the southern side but — other areas.

J. Jones Dep. 73:22-74:7 (emphasis added). Plaintiffs do not allege their needs

have not been addressed by the County and cannot even claim that the County

responds more quickly to non-minority residents.18 Instead, they reflect a common

18 Other issues raised by Ms. Abdur-Rahman by Plaintiffs also do not support 
Plaintiffs’ allegations, in part because of Ms. Abdur-Rahman’s lack of contact with 
the County. See Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 18:24-20:7 (contacted commission 
staff once three years ago, but she never followed up after that); 22:12-25 
(contacted parks and rec department about maintenance of track at Kenwood Park; 
she never followed up with commission); 23:21-24:8 (contacted parks and rec 
department about out-of-county use of Kenwood Park; she agreed there was no 
solution to the problem); 27:17-30:17 (contacted county staffer about siren; only 
followed up once every six months and did not assist with obtaining grant funds 
that were required to install siren; county finally obtained grant funds and installed 
siren based on request); 33:2-12 (never contacted commission about police

48



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 49 of 57

desire by citizens that their government would act faster. That desire is not 

sufficient to rise to the level of nonresponsiveness by the jurisdiction for purposes 

of the totality of the circumstances for Secti on 2 purposes and especially has no 

bearing on whether such nonresponsiveness is due to race. As Mr. Jones admits, 

race has nothing to do with the response time, even if it is slow. J. Jones Dep. 

73:22-74:7

The allegations about confederate history and heritage month have nothing 

to do with the responsiveness of the county government. Instead, they are an 

offensive attempt by Plaintiffs to paint the County as a racist entity that does not 

recognize the historic work of a fellow Georgian, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and 

instead celebrates the confederacy.

These allegations are directly contrary to the facts, which are known to

Plaintiffs. First, any organization may present a proclamation to the Commission,

and proclamations are routinely adopted. Brown Dep. 184:1-11. In fact, the Board

adopts a number of proclamations presented by citizens on a regular basis. Brown

Dep. 184:6-11; Smith Dep. 155:21-23 (“We made lots of proclamations”).

Contrary to Plaintiffs’ unsupported allegation, the Board did not generate the

confederate history and heritage month proclamation— it was created by an outside

presence issue); 67:16-25 (has not contacted commission in three years about roads 
in subdivision; said only problem was uneven surfaces on the roads).

49



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 50 of 57

group.u Brown Dep. 184:12-14. No such proclamation has been presented since 

2008, and at least one Commissioner testified he would oppose such a 

proclamation in the future. McCarty Dep. 140:20-141:3 (no proclamation since 

2008); Brown Dep. 186:5-10 (no proclamation in two years he has been on Board); 

McCarty Dep. 142:1-4 (would oppose in future).

Second, the Commission has adopted proclamations celebrating Dr. King’s 

birthday when they are presented. Hearn Dep. 111:2-21; Smith Dep. 156:6-19; 

Dunn Dep. 136:17-24. Dr. King’s birthday is a county holiday. See 

http://www.fayettecountyga.gov/information/countv holidavs.htm (last accessed, 

September 28, 2012). There is a parade in Fayetteville on Dr. King’s birthday. 

Hearn Dep. 111:22-112:14. The county library system, which is funded by and 

reports directly to the Commission, sponsors a multicultural program on Dr. King’s 

birthday and recognizes Black History Month. Brown Dep. 184:22-185:10. 

Members of the Commission attend and speak at the celebration for Dr. King’s 

birthday held in Fayetteville. Brown Dep. 186:11-21; Smith Dep. 156:20-157:1; 

Dunn Dep. 136:25-137:14. The desperate attempt to argue that Fayette County

19 Georgia law recognizes Dr. King’s birthday as a holiday but identifies 
Confederate History and Heritage Month as an element of Georgia historv. See
O.C.G.A. §§ 1-4-1, 1-4-20

50

http://www.fayettecountyga.gov/information/countv_holidavs.htm


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 51 of 57

and its Commission is racist as a basis for requiring a change in the voting system 

of the county is a low blow and flies in the face of the undisputed facts.

Plaintiffs have not shown that the Commission or the County is 

nonresponsive to the needs of its minority citizens. In fact, the undisputed facts 

show just the opposite—that the needs of all citizens of the county are represented 

and addressed by the Commission. This factor weighs against Plaintiffs.

9. Additional Factor: policy fo r  use ofpractice is tenuous.

The final factor this Court can review and which Plaintiffs argue applies is 

“whether the policy underlying the state or political subdivision’s use of such 

voting qualification, prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice or procedure is 

tenuous.” Plaintiffs generally state that the rationale underly ing the use of at-large 

voting is tenuous, relying on comparisons with the lack of electoral success of 

minority candidates.

Each Commissioner explained a different, but equally valid, rationale for 

their support of at-large voting. Commissioner Hearn walked through his history 

working in public works for county governments that had district voting versus 

Fayette County and saw the at-large system led to better governance. Hearn Dep. 

53:19-54:10, 45:8-47:15. He also believes that getting to vote for all five 

commission seats helps address situations that arise under district voting when

51



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 52 of 57

citizens are prevented from voting out “four knuckleheads” because they are only 

able to elect one member. Hearn Dep. 46:12-20. Commissioner Brown originally 

supported district voting as a way to allow more local representation for 

municipalities before concluding that it would no longer be fair for the cities. 

Brown Dep. 35:1-36:5. Commissioner Frady believes that, if he’s spending the 

people’s money, those people should have the opportunity to vote for him. Frady 

Dep. 56:24-57:18. Commissioner Horgan sees at-large voting as a way of ensuring 

that everyone has a say in the issues addressed by the county, particularly in the 

road projects. Horgan Dep. 58:1-59:11.

None of the reasons espoused by the Commissioners is unreasonable, 

illegitimate, or tenuous. The reasons why the Commissioners continue to oppose a 

change in the voting structure of the county are all rooted in government spending, 

good government, and opportunities for citizens to influence the political process. 

In fact, Plaintiffs do not even argue that the Commissioners have some other, 

hidden reasons for their support of district voting and do not explain why they 

believe the reasons are tenuous beyond their disagreement with them.

Perhaps recognizing this fact, Plaintiffs again turn to their feelings and 

beliefs about district voting, rehashing earlier statements about what they believe is 

true about the voting process in the county. However, the discouragement allegedly

52



Case 3 :ll-cv-Q 0123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 53 of 57

felt by Plaintiffs seems manufactured by their counsel. As Plaintiffs’ expert 

recognizes, the county’s African-American population continues to grow. Cooper 

Dep. 94:12-24. In spite of this fact, no minority candidate has even run for 

commission for the past six years, even though several commissioners believe that 

a qualified African-American candidate would stand a very good chance of being 

elected. Hearn Dep. 47:16-48:2; Smith Dep. 73:24-74:17. Plaintiffs cannot show 

that this factor weighs in their favor, in part because citizen discouragement with 

government knows no racial boundaries.

Although Plaintiffs try their best to show deep racial bias in Fayette County, 

their own statements and the undisputed evidence in this case make clear that no 

such bias exists, except possibly in the minds of Plaintiffs. Because County 

Defendants have demonstrated that racial bias does not play a major role in Fayette 

politics and that, in the aggregate, the Senate factors do not point to vote dilution. 

Nipper, 39 F.3d at 1525 n.60, 1526, County Defendants are entitled to summary 

judgment in their favor. At the very least. County Defendants have shown a dispute 

of fact regarding the totality of the circumstances that defeats Plaintiffs’ claim for 

summary judgment.

53



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 54 of 57

IV. CONCLUSION

There are no disputes of fact on the issues that decide the outcome of this 

case. Plaintiffs improperly rely on a racial gerrymander to demonstrate compliance 

with the first precondition of Gingles. As there is no question that this Court is 

prohibited from ordering a racial gerrymander as a remedy, Plaintiffs’ claims fail 

to meet the very first hurdle they must pass.

Even if Plaintiffs had shown the three Gingles preconditions were met, the 

undisputed facts demonstrate that there is no basis for concluding that race plays a 

role in the dilution of minority voting strength in the county. The totality of the 

circumstances favors County Defendants and operates to defeat Plaintiffs’ claims.

This Court should deny Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary Judgment and grant 

summary judgment in favor of County Defendants.

CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE

Pursuant to L.R. 7.1(D), the undersigned hereby certifies that the foregoing 

COUNTY DEFENDANTS’ RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFFS’ 

MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT has been prepared in Times New 

Roman 14, a font and type selection approved by the Court in L.R. 5.1(B).

Respectfully submitted this 4th day of October, 2012.

s/ Anne W. Lewis 
Frank B. Strickland

54



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 55 of 57

Georgia Bar No. 687600 
Anne W. Lewis 
Georgia Bar No. 737490 
Bryan P. Tyson 
Georgia Bar No. 515411 
STRICKLAND BROCKINGTON 

LEWIS LLP
Midtown Proscenium Suite 2200 
1170 Peachtree Street NE 
Atlanta, GA 30309 
fbs@sbllaw.net 
awl@sbllaw.net 
bpt@sbllaw.net 
(678)347-2200 
(678)347-2210 (fax)

Counsel fo r  Defendants Fayette County 
Board o f  Commissioners; Herb Frady, 
Robert Morgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown 
and Allen McCarty, in their official 
capacities; Fayette County Board o f  
Elections and Voter Registration; and Tom 
Sawyer, in his official capacity

55

mailto:fbs@sbllaw.net
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 56 of 57

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE OF 
THE NAACP, et al.,

Plaintiffs,

v.
CIVIL ACTION NO. 3:11 -CV- 
00123-TCB

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al.,

Defendants.

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I HEREBY CERTIFY that I have this day electronically filed the within and 

foregoing COUNTY DEFENDANTS' RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO 

PLAINTIFFS’ MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT with the Clerk of Court 

using the CM/ECF system which will automatically send e-mail notification of 

such filing to the following attorneys of record:

Dale E. Ho, Esq.
Natasha Korgaonkar, Esq.
Ryan P. Haygood, Esq.
Leah C. Aden, Esq.
Phillip L. Hartley, Esq.
Neil T. Bradley, Esq.

56



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140 Filed 10/04/12 Page 57 of 57

This 4th day of October, 2012.

s/ Anne W. Lewis 
Anne W. Lewis 
Georgia Bar No. 737490

57



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 18

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE OF 
THE NAACP, et al.,

Plaintiffs,

v.

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al.,

CIVIL ACTION NO. 3:11-CV- 
00123-TCB

Defendants.

COUNTY DEFENDANTS’ RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS’ STATEMENT 
OF UNDISPUTED MATERIAL FACTS IN SUPPORT OF MOTION FOR

SUMMARY JUDGMENT

COME NOW Defendants Fayette County Board of Commissioners; Herb 

Frady, Robert Horgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown and Allen McCarty, in their 

official capacities; Fayette County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; and 

Tom Sawyer, in his official capacity (collectively “County Defendants") and, 

pursuant to Local Rule 56.1, hereby provide their Response to Plaintiffs' Statement 

of Undisputed Material Facts in Support of Motion for Summary Judgment, 

showing the Court the following:

1



Case 3 :ll-cv-0Q 123-TCB  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 18

Undisputed.

2 .

Undisputed.

Undisputed.

Undisputed.

3.

4.

5.

Undisputed.

Undisputed.

Undisputed.

6 .

7.

8 .

Undisputed.

U n d isp u ted .

9.

2



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 18

10,

Undisputed,

11.

Undisputed.

12.

Undisputed.

13.

Undisputed.

14.

Undisputed.

15.

Disputed. The 19.57% number refers to the voting age population of the 

county, not electorate as constituted by voter registration. Morgan Report [Docs. 

108-5, 108-6, 108-7], K 9.

16.

Undisputed.

17 .

U n d isp u ted .

3



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 18

18.

Undisputed.

19.

Undisputed, except as to the allegations regarding Paul Snowden and 

Carolyn Fludd. The cited references do not support those allegations and therefore 

they are disputed.

20 .

Undisputed, except as to the allegations regarding Frank Oakley and David 

Simmons. The cited references do not support those allegations and therefore they 

are disputed.

21 .

Undisputed.

22.

Undisputed.

23.

Undisputed.

24.

Disputed. The website address given does not contain the information 

specified in this paragraph. The charter for Fayette County and subsequent local

4



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 18

acts specify the services Fayette County is bound by law to provide. See 1821 Ga . 

Laws Vol 2 p. 44, Act 45; 1872 Ga . Laws Vol. 1 p. 196, Act 134; 1872 Ga . Laws 

Vol. 1 p. 418, Act 295.

25.

Disputed. The website address does not contain everything mandated by the 

county government. The charter for Fayette County and subsequent local acts 

specify the services Fayette County is bound by law to provide. See 1821 Ga . 

Laws Vol 2 p. 44, Act 45; 1872 Ga . Laws Vol. 1 p. 196, Act 134; 1872 Ga . Laws 

Vol. 1 p. 418, Act 295.

26.

Undisputed.

27.

Undisputed.

28.

Undisputed.

29.

Disputed. None of the sources cited by Plaintiffs support this statement. 

While the Fayette County Board of Commissioners may adopt a resolution on any 

topic, the Georgia General Assembly is free to change the charter of Fayette

5



Case 3 :ll-cv-0 0 1 2 3 -TCB Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 18

County, including its method of election, at any time through local legislation. See 

Ga . Const, art. Ill, § 5, t  VIII; O.C.G.A. § 28-1-14.

30.

Undisputed.

31.

Disputed. As County Defendants stated in their response, race can be 

considered if it is not the predominant factor in the drafting of the plan. County 

Defendants' Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First Interrogatories [Doc. 

110-35], No. 2.

32.

Disputed. As County Defendants stated in their response, there is a 

significant governmental interest in eradicating the effects of past discrimination, 

but County Defendants have already worked to eliminate that discriminatory past 

and there is no ongoing racial discrimination against any minority group in the 

County. County Defendants’ Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First 

Interrogatories [Doc. 110-35], No. 2.

33.

U n d isp u ted .

6



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 18

34.

Undisputed.

35.

Undisputed.

36.

Undisputed.

37.

Disputed. Plaintiffs’ Complaint does not allege that this where Plaintiffs 

reside and Plaintiffs provided different definitions of what constitutes the “north 

end” of Fayette County. See, e.g., Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 58:5-17 (basing 

definition on her own residence); Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 27:3-28:1 (anything 

north of Highway 54); Adams Dep. 51:19-52:3 (southernmost point is Highway 

92); Lowry Dep. 35:2-8 (no idea how to define northern part of county).

38.

Disputed. The sources cited by Plaintiff do not support this statement. The 

statements by Cooper and Morgan both indicate there are concentrations of 

African-American voters in parts of Fayette County but do not indicate that a 

majority of African-American individuals, let alone African-American registered 

voters, live in this part of the county. Cooper Report [Doc. 108-4], 20; Morgan

7



Case 3:ll-cv~00123~TCB Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 18

Report, 20-21. Cooper was unable to specify what he meant by referring to the 

“north end” of Fayette County. Cooper Dep. 90:4-24. Other testimony cited by 

Plaintiffs does not support the statement, contains guesses as to the location of a 

majority of A frican-American voters, or does not specify a majority lived in the 

northern end of the county. Pfeifer Dep. 39:12-18 (“probably” in the north end, 

defined as Highways 92 and 314 and county boundaries); Dunn Dep. 55:22-56:6 

(only responding to question about where largest concentration was located); 

Horgan Dep. 69:24-70:10 (no question or response about majority); Brown Dep. 

44:19-24 (only stating there are a “large number” of African-Americans in the 

north part of the county), 64:19-67:14 (no question or response about majority); 

Smith Dep. 53:9-25 (only question about where largest concentration was located); 

Clark Dep. 30:8-15 (“don't even know the percentages”), 31:15-20 (no question or 

response about majority); Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 58 (no question or response 

about majority).

39.

Undisputed as to the racial makeup of Tyrone and Fayetteville. Disputed as 

to the “north end of the County.” Morgan does not state where the cities are 

located. Morgan Report, 15-17. Although Cooper’s report includes this

8



Case 3:ll-cv-00123~TCB Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 18

statement, Cooper was unable to explain what he meant when referring to the 

“north end” of Fayette County. Cooper Dep. 90:4-24.

40.

Disputed. There are three separate concentrations of African-American 

individuals in Fayette County. Morgan Report, 14-17.

41.

Undisputed.

42.

Undisputed.

43.

Undisputed.

44.

Disputed. As Morgan testified, he drew plans that included a number of new 

majority-minority districts during the 2011-2012 redistricting cycle. Morgan Dep. 

100:24-101:9. The sections cited by Plaintiffs refer to specific questions about 

whether Morgan created any majority-minority districts on the county level that 

did not previously exist. Morgan Dep. 104:17-106:17. To the extent Plaintiffs 

claim that Morgan is not an expert, their own expert agreed that he was. Cooper 

Dep. 57:14-17.

9



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 18

45.

Disputed. Mr. Cooper developed an Illustrative Plan that included a 

majority-minority district, but Plaintiffs state a legal conclusion when they claim 

the district is properly apportioned. Morgan Report, 47 (race was guiding 

principle of Illustrative Plan).

46.

Undisputed.

47.

Undisputed.

48.

Disputed. To the extent this even is a factual characterization, Morgan stated 

clearly that no bright line rule exists. Morgan Dep. 71:3-10 (no bright line rule for 

deviation). But this is also a legal conclusion. Larios v. Cox, 300 F.Supp.2d 1320 

(N.D. Ga. 2004) a ff’d, 542 U.S. 947, 124 S. Ct. 2806, 159 L. Ed. 2d 831 (2004) 

determined that there is no ten percent “safe harbor” for population equality.

49.

U n d ispu ted .

10



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 18

50.

Disputed. Cooper was unable to identify any traditional principles of 

redistricting that drove the design of District 5—not avoiding precinct splits 

(Cooper Dep. 191:14-25), not compactness (Cooper Dep. 236:17-237:2; 245:8-13), 

and not communities of interest (Cooper Dep. 284:4-20; 284:23-285:7; 285:20-24; 

286:16-24). The only community of interest to which Cooper apparently paid any 

attention was a racial one, relying on his perception of the unity of the black 

population in the county. Cooper Dep. 184:13-185:6; 186:19-25; 136:25-137:6.

51.

Undisputed that such a district can be drawn, but only if race is the 

predominant factor in its creation. Morgan Report, 47-49.

52.

Disputed. The cited text does not say what Plaintiffs claim. Cooper indicated 

that 23 of the 125 districts, not 23 of the plans, scored the same or better on the 

Reock compactness score. Cooper Second Supp. Report [Doc. 108-9], 13-14.

But Cooper himself admitted that looking at more than one compactness score is 

useful. Cooper Dep. 225:16-226:20. In addition, Cooper admitted that using both 

compactness scores, the proposed District 5 was less compact than almost all the

11



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 18

plans in his sample of county school board and commission districts. Cooper Dep. 

231:20-232:15; 236:17-237:2; 245:8-13; 246:5-15.

53.

Disputed. The cited text does not say what Plaintiffs claim. Cooper indicated 

that his comparison was the Reock score of District 5, not of the entire plan, with a 

variety of legislative districts. Cooper Second Supp. Report, ^  8. In addition, 

Cooper indicated he was unable to state how many districts in the Georgia 

legislative plans had lower compactness scores due to compliance with traditional 

redistricting principles such deviation. Cooper Dep. 239:25-240:22.

54.

Disputed. Plaintiffs misstate what Cooper’s report says. As Cooper 

indicated, using both measures of compactness, District 5 is less compact than 

most districts to which he compared it. Cooper Dep. 231:20-232:15; 236:17-237:2; 

245:8-13; 246:5-15. In addition, Morgan indicated that plans he drew were not 

adopted in their entirety in the states named by Plaintiffs. Morgan Dep. 184:13-22;

185:1-4 (only drafted some districts in South Carolina, not entire plan). Even if this 

were correct, however, many local issues drove the compactness scores in those 

plans, such as a whole county and other specific constitutional requirements in 

North Carolina. Morgan Dep. 76:19-78:18.

12



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 18

55.

Disputed. Morgan did take compliance with the Voting Rights Act into 

account as one of the “understood” elements of redistricting and required by 

federal law. Morgan Dep. 150:9-24. That is distinct from traditional redistricting 

principles such as compactness, preserving political subdivisions, and contiguity. 

Morgan Dep. 151:20-152:2. While equality of population is not a “traditional 

redistricting principle,” it is at the heart of redistricting and required by the 

Constitution. Morgan Dep. 151:20-152:2.

56.

Disputed. Regarding the specific allegations made by Plaintiffs:

(1) Fayetteville and Tyrone residents attend different schools, Cooper Dep. 

288:14-290:19;

(2) Fayetteville and Tyrone residents attend different places of worship, 

Adams Dep. 52:10-14; Clark Dep. 74:7-14; DuBose Dep. 61:4-10; A. Jones Dep. 

61:10-13; J. Jones Dep. 85:9-86:20; Lowry Dep. 33:5-34:8;

(3) Plaintiffs only identified one individual who lived in Fayetteville but saw 

a doctor in Tyrone, Wright Dep. 29:24-30:1;

(4) the only common civic organization among identified is the NAACP, 

which County Defendants do not dispute Plaintiffs are members of;

13



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 18

(5) the only references to fraternities and sororities in the sections quoted by 

Plaintiffs are (a) one Plaintiff identified some fraternities that might have members 

in the area, but provided no further details, J. Jones Dep. 87:4-11, (b) one Plaintiff 

indicated a fraternity brother of his lived in the same neighborhood, Adams Dep. 

12:1-3, and (c) speculation that there may be members of the same fraternities and 

sororities in the area, DuBose Dep. 62:13-23;

(6) the only references to shopping in the depositions cited are (a) that Mr. 

Abdur-Rahman shops at locations near Fayetteville, Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep.

43:15-44:8, (b) that Mr. Adams occasionally goes to Tyrone for shopping even 

though he wouldn’t go to a park in Tyrone, Adams Dep. 26:1-21, (c) that Mr. Clark 

would not go to Tyrone from Fayetteville for groceries, Clark Dep. 75:11-22, and 

(d) that Ms. Abdur-Rahman would go to Fayetteville or travel outside the county 

for groceries, Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 61:18-62:7; and

(7) County Defendants do not dispute that Plaintiffs have a common desire 

for district voting.

57.

Undisputed.

58.

Undisputed.

14



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 18

59.

Undisputed.

60.

The allegation is not supported by a citation to evidence.

61.

Undisputed that Georgia is a covered jurisdiction under Section 5 of the 

Voting Rights Act, but disputed that coverage is “because of its documented 

history of state-sponsored by sanctioned discrimination against the minority 

electorate.” Coverage is based on (1) maintaining a “test or device” on November 

1, 1964 and (2) voter turnout during the 1964 presidential election. 42 U.S.C. § 

1973b(b), 30 Fed. Reg. 9897 (1965).

CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE

Pursuant to L.R. 7.1(D), the undersigned hereby certifies that the foregoing 

County Defendants’ Response to Plaintiffs’ Statement of Undisputed Material 

Facts has been prepared in Times New Roman 14, a font and type selection 

approved by the Court in L.R. 5.1(B).

Respectful submitted this 4th day of October, 2012.

s/ Anne W. Lewis 
Frank B. Strickland 
Georgia Bar No. 687600 
Anne W. Lewis

15



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 16 of 18

Georgia Bar No. 737490 
Bryan P. Tyson 
Georgia Bar No. 515411 
STRICKLAND BROCKINGTON 

LEWIS LLP 
Midtown Proscenium 
1170 Peachtree Street N.E., Suite 
2200
Atlanta, GA 30309
fbs@sbllaw.net
awl@sbllaw.net
bpt@sbllaw.net
(678)347-2200
(678)347-2210 (fax)

Counsel fo r  Defendants Fayette County 
Board o f  Commissioners; Herb Frady, 
Robert Morgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown 
and Allen McCarty, in their official 
capacities; Fayette County’ Board o f  
Elections and Voter Registration; and Tom 
Sawyer, in his official capacity

16

mailto:fbs@sbllaw.net
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 17 of 18

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE OF 
THE NAACP, et al.,

Plaintiffs,
CIVIL ACTION NO. 3:11-CV- 

v. Q0123-TCB

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al.,

Defendants.

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I HEREBY CERTIFY that I have this day electronically filed the within and 

foregoing COUNTY DEFENDANTS’ RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS’ 

STATEMENT OF UNDISPUTED MATERIAL FACTS IN SUPPORT OF 

MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT with the Clerk of Court using the 

CM/ECF system which will automatically send e-mail notification of such filing to 

the following attorneys of record:

Dale E. Ho, Esq.
Natasha Korgaonkar, Esq.
Ryan P. Haygood, Esq.
Leah C. Aden, Esq.
Phillip L. Hartley, Esq.
Neil T. Bradley, Esq.

17



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-1 Filed 10/04/12 Page 18 of 18

This 4th day of October, 2012.

s/ Anne W. Lewis 
Anne W. Lewis 
Georgia Bar No. 737490

18



Case 3:ll-cv-00123~TCB Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 25

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE OF 
THE NAACP, et al.,

Plaintiffs,
CIVIL ACTION NO. 3:11-CV- 

v. 00123-TCB

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et a l,

Defendants.

COUNTY DEFENDANTS’ STATEMENT OF ADDITIONAL UNDISPUTED 
MATERIAL FACTS IN OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFFS’ MOTION FOR

SUMMARY JUDGMENT

COME NOW Defendants Fayette County Board of Commissioners; Herb 

Frady, Robert Horgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown and Allen McCarty, in their 

official capacities; Fayette County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; and 

Tom Sawyer, in his official capacity (collectively “County Defendants”) and, 

pursuant to Local Rule 56.1, hereby provide their Statement of Additional 

Undisputed Material Facts in Opposition to Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary1 

Judgment, showing the Court the following:



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 25

1 .

Most African-American voters in Fayette County vote for Democratic 

candidates in a largely Republican county. Adams Dep. 39:16-24; Clark Dep. 

47:12-16; DuBose Dep. 52:25-53:4; J. Jones Dep. 125:6-16; Wright Dep. 25:4-7.

2 .

Commissioner Robert Florgan was qualified for office when he ran in 2006. 

Smith Dep. 66:7-17; Frady Dep. 49:9-16.

3.

Commissioner Robert Florgan was supported by the incumbent sheriff when 

he ran in 2006. Pfeifer Dep. 24:6-25:6.

4.

There is no objective compactness standard; instead, compactness is 

measured relative to other shapes and districts. Cooper Dep. 216:5-217:6; Morgan 

Dep. 67:16-68:1.

5.

Using more than one compactness measure is helpful because the two main 

measures of compactness (Polsby-Popper and Reock) “reward” different things. 

Morgan Report ^ 32; Morgan Dep. 110:25-112:21; Cooper Dep. 225:16-226:3.

2



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 25

6 .

The Illustrative Plan is “not going to win a blue ribbon for compactness.” 

Cooper Dep. 135:9-10.

7.

Morgan never claimed the Illustrative Plan was “not compact.” Morgan Dep. 

113:4-24; 127:2-8.

8.

The majority-minority district (District 5 on the Illustrative Plan drawn by 

Cooper) is the least compact district o f any district drawn for Fayette County. 

Morgan Report, Tf 35.

9.

The majority-minority district (District 5 on the Illustrative Plan drawn by 

Cooper) is less compact than nearly all of the districts to which he compared it for 

state and county commission boundaries. Cooper Dep. 231:20-232:15; 236:17- 

237:2; 245:8-13; 246:5-15.

10.

Lower compactness score sometimes can be explained by factors such as 

efforts to comply with Section 5 of the VRA. Cooper Dep. 235:13-17.

3



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 25

11.

Cooper was unable to identify any traditional principles of redistricting that 

drove the lower compactness scores in District 5: not avoiding precinct splits 

(Cooper Dep. 191:14-25) and not maintaining communities of interest (Cooper 

Dep. 284:4-20; 284:23-285:7; 285:20-24; 286:16-24).

12.

Cooper was unable to identify any traditional principles of redistricting that 

drove the deviation from the ideal district size in District 5: not avoiding precinct 

splits (Cooper Dep. 191:14-25), not compactness (Cooper Dep. 236:17-237:2; 

245:8-13), and not maintaining communities of interest (Cooper Dep. 284:4-20; 

284:23-285:7; 285:20-24; 286:16-24).

13.

Cooper was unable to draw a majority-minority district in Fayette County 

using only precincts. Cooper Dep. 191:14-25.

14.

Instead of precincts, Cooper used the smallest level of geography (where the 

only things that can be known are race and population), and he had the African- 

American percentage of each block displayed on his computer as he drew District

5. Cooper Dep. 107:2-15.

4



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 25

15.

Cooper was only able to identify one split precinct designed to protect an 

incumbent and unable to explain the purpose for any of the other 10 splits. Cooper 

Dep. 151:16-152:17.

16.

In each split on District 5, Cooper always placed a higher percentage of 

African-American individuals into the district and always removed a higher 

percentage of white individuals. Supp. Morgan Report 20.

17.

Cooper was unaware of the location or attendance patterns for any churches 

or civic organizations besides the NAACP when he drew the Illustrative Plan. 

Cooper Dep. 284:23-285:7; 285:20-24.

18.

The Illustrative Plan does not follow municipal boundaries and divides 

cities. Cooper Dep. 284:4-20; 146:15-21

19.

The Illustrative Plan does not follow school attendance zones. Cooper Dep. 

286:16-24; 288:14-290:19.

5



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 25

20.

The only community of interest to which Cooper apparently paid any 

attention was a racial one, relying on his perception of the unity of the black 

population in the county. Cooper Dep. 184:13-185:6; 186:19-25; 136:25-137:6.

21 .

Not one of the Plaintiffs could identify a single individual who attends 

church in a different part of the county than the part where they live. Adams Dep. 

52:10-14; Clark Dep. 74:7-14; DuBose Dep. 61:4-10; A. Jones Dep. 61:10-13; J. 

Jones Dep. 85:9-86:20; Lowry Dep. 33:5-34:8.

22 .

Most of Plaintiffs attend worship locations that are located outside of Fayette 

County. Adams Dep. 52:4-9; Clark Dep. 74:21-23; A. Jones Dep. 36:19-37:2; J. 

Jones Dep. 86:21-87:3; Lowry Dep. 33:21-24; Richardson Dep. 15:7-17; Williams 

Dep. 35:16-25.

23.

The only apparent common worship area in the county is the one mosque 

located in Fayetteville. Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 80:6-10; Ali Abdur-Rahman 

Dep. 41:10-12, 41:22-42:1.

6



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 25

24.

Not all Plaintiffs are members of the North Fayette Community Association. 

Wright Dep. 44:22-24.

25.

Recreation areas are not primary communities of interest. Adams Dep. 

54:23-55:3.

26.

Those who live in Tyrone go to parks in Tyrone, not to Kenwood Park in 

Fayetteville. Richardson Dep. 43:18-44:16; 46:3-9.

27.

Kenwood Park is often used by individuals from outside Fayette County. A. 

Jones Dep. 63:21-24; Adams Dep. 53:22-54:1.

28.

Morgan is an expert in redistricting and demographics. Cooper Dep. 57:14-

17.

29.

Morgan based his analysis of the separateness of three population centers of 

African-Americans on his analysis of the demographics and population. Morgan 

Dep. 143:1-145:10.

7



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 25

30.

African-American individuals in Fayette County do not all live in the same 

area. Williams Dep. 41:7-14; DuBose Dep. 60:12-61:3.

31.

The Hypothetical Plan was drawn by Cooper to be a racial gerrymander. 

Cooper Dep. 176:2-16.

32.

The Hypothetical Plan keeps precincts whole (Cooper Dep. 177:1-178:21), 

falls within a ten percent population threshold (Cooper Dep. 178:22-179:9), and 

otherwise follows some traditional redistricting principles (Cooper Dep. 178:12- 

21).

33.

Plaintiffs’ expert had no idea whether plans for Baldwin, Bulloch, and 

Newton counties were currently in force, were drawn by a court or the General 

Assembly, followed precinct boundaries, were properly apportioned, had any 

protected districts under Section 5, or had any other local considerations that drove 

the shapes of the districts involved. Cooper Dep. 200:15-209:18.

8



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 25

34.

The earliest any Plaintiff moved to Fayette County was 1989. Most Plaintiffs 

retired to Fayette County after concluding all or most of their working life. Adams 

Dep. 7:19-21 (moved to Fayette in 1990); Clark Dep. 7:7-9 (moved to Fayette in 

1993 from New York); A. Jones Dep. 7:13-8:6 (moved to Fayette in 1997; born in 

Pennsylvania); J. Jones Dep. 7:13-15 (moved to Fayette in 1997); Lowry Dep. 

6:18-25 (moved to Fayette in 1989 from Washington, D.C.); Ali Abdur-Rahman 

Dep. 6:24-7:1 (moved to Fayette in 2005); Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 7:17-20 

(moved to Fayette in late 2004); Richardson Dep. 6:23-7:7 (moved to Fayette in 

2003 from Buckhead area); Williams Dep. 6:17-22 (moved to Fayette in 1998 from 

Minnesota); Wright Dep. 6:23-25 (moved to Fayette in 2002).

35.

No Plaintiff has ever been denied the right to vote or prohibited from 

registering to vote or participating in the political process in Fayette County based 

on his or her race. Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 40:24-41:13; Ali Abdur-Rahman 

Dep. 29:6-13; Adams Dep. 34:21-35:3; Clark Dep. 43:20-44:1; A. Jones Dep. 

37:3-11; J. Jones Dep. 33:25-34:6; Lowry Dep. 21:16-22; Richardson Dep. 34:14- 

19; Williams Dep. 27:2-11; Wright Dep. 22:19-23:4; DuBose Dep. 48:4-18.

9



Case 3:ll~cv-00123-TCB Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 25

36.

Not a single Plaintiff could identify any discriminatory voting practice used 

by Fayette County government other than the at-large system, which Plaintiffs 

erroneously believe is discriminatory, with the exception of Mr. Clark, who 

believed that the county had a police presence at polling stations that could 

possibly be discriminatory, but could not remember any instance or election where 

this took place. Adams Dep. 41:18-21; Clark Dep. 57:20-58:3, 59:16-21; A. Jones 

Dep. 46:4-15; J. Jones Dep. 36:12-18; Lowry Dep. 21:11-22:7; Ali Abdur-Rahman 

Dep. 51:6-11; Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 46:18-25; Richardson Dep. 34:14-19; 

Williams Dep. 27:2-11; Wright Dep. 22:17-23:4; DuBose Dep. 48:14-49:24.

37.

There is no candidate slating process in Fayette County elections. Wright 

Dep. 25:22-26:2.

38.

African-American and white residents of Fayette County are prosperous and 

not different economically. Cooper Dep. 138:4-8; Brown Dep. 67:22-68:5.

39.

There are no effects of discrimination in the county that negatively affect the 

ability of the minority community to participate in the political process. Aisha

10



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 25

Abdur-Rahman Dep. 50:25-51:8; Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 33:20-34:12; Adams 

Dep. 43:25-44:6; Clark Dep. 62:5-62:11; A. Jones Dep. 49:17-50:11; J. Jones Dep. 

51:16-52:1; 56:15-18; Lowry Dep. 27:1-20; Richardson Dep. 39:11-40:8; Wright 

Dep. 26:7-21; DuBose Dep. 54:5-22.

40.

The education system of Fayette has a good academic reputation and is a 

reason people move to the county. Clark Dep. 61:8-14; A. Jones Dep. 49:17-50:11; 

J. Jones Dep. 43:23-44:6; Lowry' Dep. 26:12-17; Wright Dep. 26:7-21.

41.

Mr. Jones identified the word “conservative” in political campaigns as a 

coded racial appeal, along with alleging that those who do not favor district voting 

hold “white supremacist views.” J. Jones Dep. 57:25-58:2; 82:17-25.

42.

Most Plaintiffs said either that they had never seen a racial appeal in Fayette 

County elections or, if they had, could not identify any election where that took 

place. Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 53:12-22; Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 34:18-35:18; 

Adams Dep. 44:14-45:14; Clark Dep. 63:2-7; DuBose Dep. 54:23-55:11; Imwry 

Dep. 37:17-38:1; Williams Dep. 31:17-25.

11



Case 3 :ll-cv-0 0 1 2 3 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 25

43.

Commissioner Horgan’s comment about “heritage” was referring to “the 

rural, neighborly character of the county as opposed to being a metropolitan 

Atlanta county” and “related to the traditions of the county and had no racial 

component.” County Defendants’ Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First 

Requests for Admission [Doc. 110-4], No. 9; County Defendants’ Objections and 

Responses to Plaintiffs’ First Interrogatories [Doc. 110-35], No. 9.

44.

Commissioner Horgan has appointed several minority individuals to county 

commission boards. Florgan Dep. 40:7-43:5.

45.

The NAACP and an African-American state representative turned the issue 

of district voting into a “politically racially-charged” issue in approximately 2006. 

Brown Dep. 32:4-33:13.

46.

Current and former commissioners believe that most people in the county 

oppose district voting, regardless of their race. Brown Dep. 68:24-70:12; Frady 

Dep. 117:17-118:3; Hearn Dep. 55:13-56:2; Smith Dep. 58:7-19.

12



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 25

47.

Clayton County and other surrounding counties have significant problems in 

governance that are completely unrelated to race. Adams Dep. 46:15-47:12; A. 

Jones Dep. 56:19-57:22; Aisha Abdur-Rahman Dep. 21:4-5.

48.

Many of the governance problems in counties like Clayton County and 

counties like Gwinnett and Coweta (which are not majority-minority) can be traced 

back to district voting. Brown Dep. 113:1-115:10.

49.

Comments about “not wanting to be like” surrounding counties have not 

been made in the context of any election. Adams Dep. 45:15-46:14; A. Jones Dep. 

56:1-6.

50.

Magistrate Judge Charles Floyd is the only African-American elected to a 

county wide office, although Ed Johnson, a former president of the local NAACP 

chapter, was elected to the Fayetteville City Council in 2011. County Defendants' 

Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs’ First Requests for Admission [Doc. 110-4], 

No. 11.

13



Case 3 :ll-cv-0Q 123 -TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 25

51.

Emory Wilkerson has run from many political parties. Brown Dep. 52:12- 

23, 53:17-21.

52.

Dave Simmons trumpeted his experience in Detroit which was politically 

unpopular in the County. Brown Dep. 52:24-53:16.

53.

Malcolm Hughes did not campaign for office when he ran. Brown Dep. 

53:22-54:2.

54.

Charles Rousseau did not show up to events during his campaign. Horgan 

Dep. 76:6-10.

55.

When the 2006 special election was held, the African-American vote was 

split by four different candidates running, but black candidates received a total of 

49% of the county’s vote. Dunn Dep. 40:22-41:19.

56.

Some qualified African-American individuals are not interested in serving 

on county boards. Horgan Dep. 50:9-51:9.

14



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 25

57.

Mr. Clark is not interested in serving on a county board. Clark Dep. 66:19- 

24.

58.

Mr. Lowry has applied for county board appointments but was unable to 

serve due to job responsibilities. Lowry Dep. 32:8-25.

59.

Any individual can apply for an appointment position at the county offices. 

Brown Dep.151:9-l52:14.

60.

Ms. Jones has never met with individual commissioners to discuss the 

opportunities to serve on county boards. Horgan Dep. 52:2-10

61.

There are no particularized needs of the minority community in Fayette 

County that are any different than those of the white community. Aisha Abdur- 

Rahman Dep. 54:10-56:9; Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 36:10-15; Adams Dep. 64:17- 

65:20; Clark Dep. 64:7-65:16; DuBose Dep. 56:17-22; A. Jones Dep. 58:20-59:1; 

J. Jones Dep. 69:1-15; Lowry Dep. 30:5-31:5; Richardson Dep. 46:10-47:6; 

Williams Dep. 32:7-13; Wright Dep. 28:14-29:3.

15



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 16 of 25

62.

Most of the Plaintiffs have never contacted the county or contacted the 

county only once. Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 48:22-49:14; Adams Dep. 23:21-24:16, 

30:7-20; Clark Dep. 34:15-18, 37:1-15.; Richardson Dep. 33:16-34:10; Williams 

Dep. 34:17-35:9; Wright Dep. 29:4-13.

63.

Individual voters in Fayette County make hundreds of requests during public 

comment periods at Commission meetings. McCarty Dep. 80:22-81:15.

64.

If Commissioners implemented everything requested by every voter, the 

county would go bankrupt because voters often request things like cutting all taxes 

in half. McCarty Dep. 92:1-22.

65.

Commissioner Smith spent time researching the issue of district voting. 

Smith Dep. 32:18-33:19, 37:12-39:7, 84:3-85:8.

66 .

Commissioner Hearn had personal experience dealing with both district and 

at-large voting systems. Hearn Dep. 53:19-54:5.

16



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 17 of 25

67.

At his request, Commissioner Smith received a letter with seven or eight 

items on it allegedly showing failures by the county to respond to needs. Smith 

Dep. 118:3-6.

68 .

Commissioner Smith began to work personally with the county clerk to 

ensure every request was met. Smith Dep. 118:7-16.

69.

Several “unmet” requests were situations where members of the association 

were calling the wrong department of the county, such as calling Animal Control 

instead of Public Works about dead animals on the side of the road. Smith Dep.

118:18-119:7. Similarly, complaints about not cutting the grass on medians of 

particular roads were not handled by the county because the roads were state roads, 

not county roads, and the county was prohibited by law from maintaining the 

medians. Smith Dep. 119:8-120:18.

70.

No allegedly unmet need in that letter was the result of negligence by the 

county. Smith Dep. 120:19-23.

17



Case 3 :ll-cv-0 0 1 2 3 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 18 of 25

71.

Commissioner Smith stated, “There was nothing in that list that had any 

implication that that group was being underserved for any reason other than they 

just didn’t know the right path to follow.” Smith Dep. 120:23-121:1.

72.

The public works department (not the Commission) creates the priority list 

for paving and brings that to the Board for approval. Frady Dep. 29:15-30:16.

73.

The County is not responsible for paving or repairing every single road that 

exists within its boundaries. Hearn Dep. 54:19-55:12.

74.

Kenwood Park was the only park built by the County from the ground up. 

Brown Dep. 192:12-193:22.

75.

The park’s amenities rival the two other parks operated by the County, as 

some Plaintiffs agree. Brown Dep. 195:3-196:4; Ali Abdur-Rahman Dep. 43:3-10.

76.

The first phase of Kenwood Park was completed just before the economy 

collapsed in 2008. Brown Dep. 159:1 -7.

18



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 19 of 25

77.

While there are county funds allocated to Kenwood Park waiting to be spent, 

spending has been frozen so the county can provide funds for its essential services 

like ambulances and the fire department. Brown Dep. 160:18-161:21.

78.

Despite this freeze, the County has still moved forward with some 

improvements at Kenwood Park. Brown Dep. 159:8-11.

79.

The Commission undertook a detailed analysis and found the YMCA 

wanted the County to pay for construction costs of $32 million in their entirety and 

then turn over control of the facility to the YMCA. Smith Dep. 126:7-128:15.

80.

The Commission then undertook to review whether the County could build 

and operate the center at a profit, Smith Dep. 128:16-131:16, but just as that review 

was completed, the economy collapsed and county tax revenue dropped 

precipitously, leading to the abandonment of the idea. Smith Dep. 131:3-16.

81.

Race has nothing to do with the county’s response time to requests of 

citizens. J. Jones Dep. 73:22-74:7.

19



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 20 of 25

82.

Any organization may present a proclamation to the Commission, and 

proclamations are routinely adopted. Brown Dep. 184:1-11. The Board adopts a 

number of proclamations presented by citizens on a regular basis. Brown Dep. 

184:6-11; Smith Dep. 155:21-23.

83.

The Board did not generate the confederate history and heritage month 

proclamation— it was created by an outside group. Brown Dep. 184:12-14.

84.

No proclamation regarding confederate history and heritage month has been 

presented since 2008, and at least one Commissioner testified he would oppose 

such a proclamation in the future. McCarty Dep. 140:20-141:3; Brown Dep. 186:5- 

10; McCarty Dep. 142:1-4.

85.

The Commission has adopted proclamations celebrating Dr. King’s birthday 

when they are presented. Hearn Dep. 111:2-21; Smith Dep. 156:6-19; Dunn Dep. 

136:17-24.

20



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 21 of 25

86.

Dr. King’s birthday is a county holiday. See 

http://www.fayettecountYga.gov/information/countv holidavs.htm (last accessed, 

September 28, 2012).

87.

There is a parade in Fayetteville on Dr. King’s birthday. Hearn Dep. 111:22- 

112:14.

88 .

The county library system, which is funded by and reports directly to the 

Commission, sponsors a multicultural program on Dr. King’s birthday and 

recognizes Black History Month. Brown Dep. 184:22-185:10.

89.

Members of the Commission attend and speak at the celebration for Dr. 

King’s birthday held in Fayetteville. Brown Dep. 186:11-21; Smith Dep. 156:20- 

157:1; Dunn Dep. 136:25-137:14.

90.

Commissioner Hearn worked in public works for county governments that 

had district voting versus Fayette County and saw the at-large system led to better 

governance. Hearn Dep. 53:19-54:10, 45:8-47:15.

21

http://www.fayettecountYga.gov/information/countv_holidavs.htm


Case 3 ill-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 22 of 25

91.

Commissioner Brown originally supported district voting as a way to allow 

more local representation for municipalities before concluding that it would no 

longer be fair for the cities. Brown Dep. 35:1-36:5.

92.

Commissioner Frady believes that, if he’s spending the people’s money, 

those people should have the opportunity to vote for him. Frady Dep. 56:24-57:18.

93.

Commissioner Horgan sees at-large voting as a way of ensuring that 

everyone has a say in the issues addressed by the county, particularly in the road 

projects. Horgan Dep. 58:1-59:11.

94.

Several commissioners believe a qualified African-American candidate 

would stand a very good chance of being elected. Hearn Dep. 47:16-48:2; Smith 

Dep. 73:24-74:17.

CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE

Pursuant to L.R. 7.1(D), the undersigned hereby certifies that the foregoing 

County Defendants’ Statement of Additional Undisputed Material Facts in 

Opposition to Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary Judgment has been prepared in

22



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 23 of 25

Times New Roman 14, a font and type selection approved by the Court in L.R. 

5.1(B).

Respectful submitted this 4th day of October, 2012.

s/ Anne W. Lewis 
Frank B. Strickland 
Georgia Bar No. 687600 
Anne W. Lewis 
Georgia Bar No. 737490 
Bryan P. Tyson 
Georgia Bar No. 515411 
STRICKLAND BROCK1NGTON 

LEWIS LLP 
Midtown Proscenium 
1170 Peachtree Street N.E., Suite 
2200
Atlanta, GA 30309
fbs@sbllaw.net
awl@sbllaw.net
bpt@sbllaw.net
(678)347-2200
(678)347-2210 (lux)

Counsel fo r Defendants Fayette County 
Board o f  Commissioners; Herb Frady, 
Robert Morgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown 
and Allen McCarty, in their official 
capacities; Fayette County Board o f  
Elections and Voter Registration; and Tom 
Sawyer, in his official capacity

23

mailto:fbs@sbllaw.net
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net


Case 3:ll-cv-00123~TCB Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 24 of 25

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE OF 
THE NAACP, et al.,

Plaintiffs,

v.
CIVIL ACTION NO. 3:11-CV- 
00123-TCB

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et a l,

Defendants.

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I HEREBY CERTIFY that I have this day electronically fded the within and 

foregoing COUNTY DEFENDANTS’ STATEMENT OF ADDITIONAL 

UNDISPUTED MATERIAL FACTS IN OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFFS’ 

MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT with the Clerk of Court using the 

CM/ECF system which will automatically send e-mail notification of such filing to 

the following attorneys of record:

Dale E. Ho, Esq.
Natasha Korgaonkar, Esq.
Ryan P. Haygood, Esq.
Leah C. Aden, Esq.
Phillip L. Hartley, Esq.
Neil T. Bradley, Esq.

24



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-2 Filed 10/04/12 Page 25 of 25

This 4th day of October, 2012.

s/ Anne W. Lewis 
Anne W. Lewis 
Georgia Bar No. 737490

25



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 17

EXHIBIT A

Cited Excerpts of Deposition of 
Aisha Abdur-Rahman



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman June 6, 2012
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE 
OF THE NAACP; FAYETTE
COUNTY BRANCH NAACP; HENRY CIVIL ACTION
ADAMS; TERENCE CLARK; FILE NO.
ALICE JONES, JOHN E. 3:11-CV-00123-TCB
JONES; DAN LOWRY; ALI
ABDUR-RAHMAN; AISHA
ABDUR-RAHMAN; LELIA
RICHARDSON; ELVERTA
WILLIAMS; and BONNIE LEE
WRIGHT,

Plaintiffs, 
v s .

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al.,

Defendants.

DEPOSITION OF 

AISHA ABDUR-RAHMAN 

4:59 p .m .

June 6, 2012
140 Stonewall Avenue, West 

Fayetteville, Georgia

Susan M. Pitts, CCR-B-1806, RPR

1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
2 On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
3 LDF

RYAN P. HAYGOOD, ESQ.
4 LEAH C. ADEN, ESQ.

99 Hudson Street, Suite 1600
5 New York, New York 10013 

(212) 965-2235
6 (212) 226-7592 (Facsimile) 

rhaygood@naacpldf.org
7 laden@naacpldf.org
8

On behalf of the Defendants, Fayette County Board of 
9 Commissioners; Herb Frady, Chairperson, in his 

official capacity; Robert Horgan, Vice-Chairperson,
1 0  in his official capacity; Lee Hearn, Commissioner, in 

his official capacity; Steve Brown, Commissioner, in
1 1  his official capacity; and Allen McCarty,

Commissioner, in his official capacity; Fayette
12 County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; Tom 

Sawyer, Department Head, in his official capacity:
13

STRICKLAND, BROCKINGTON, LEWIS, LLP
14 BRYAN P. TYSON, ESQ.

Midtown Proscenium, Suite 2200
15 1170 Peachtree Street, N.E.

Atlanta, Georgia 30309-7200
16 (678)347-2203

(678) 347-2210 (Facsimile)
17 bpt@sbllaw.net
18
19
20  
21 
22
23
24
25

1 
2
3
4
5
6 
7

9

10 
11 

12

13
14
15

16

17

18
19

2 0  
21 
22
23
24
25

2 4

1 DEPOSITION OF AISHA ABDUR-RAHMAN
2 June 6, 2012
3 (Reporter disclosure made pursuant to

j 4 Article 8.B. of the Rules and Regulations of the
5 Board of Court Reporting of the Judicial Council
6 of Georgia.)
7 (Exhibits 1 through 4 were marked for
8 identification.)
9 MR. TYSON: This will be the deposition of

1 o Aisha AbdurtRahman taken by the defendants
1 1  Fayette County Board of Commissioners,
12 Herb Frady, Robert Horgan, Lee Hearn, Steve
13 Brown, Allen McCarty, Fayette Board of Elections
14 and Voter Registration and Tom Sawyer, who are
is  referred to collectively in this litigation as
16 the county defendants for the purpose of
17 discovery and all purposes allowed under the
18 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the Federal
19 Rules of Evidence.
2 o All objections except those going to the
21 form of the question and the responsiveness of
22 the answer are reserved until trial or first use
23 of the deposition. Is that agreeable,
24 Mr. Haygood?
25 MR. HAYGOOD: It is.

INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS
Examination Page
Examination by Mr. Tyson 5
Examination by Mr. Haygood 70
Further Examination by Mr. Tyson 78

INDEX TO EXHIBITS 

Exhibit Description Page

1 Verification 37
1A Plaintiffs' Responses to Defendant 

Fayette County Board of Commissioners' 
First Interrogatories to Plaintiffs 37

2 Complaint 39
3 Plaintiffs’ Responses to Defendant

Fayette County Board of 
Commissioners’ First Request for 
Production of Documents 39

4 Map 62

(Original Exhibits 1 through 4 have been 
attached to the original transcript.)

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

mailto:rhaygood@naacpldf.org
mailto:laden@naacpldf.org
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net
http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-G 0123-TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman June 6, 2012

1 MR. TYSON: And does the witness wish to
2 read and sign?
3 MR. HAYGOOD: She does.
4 MR. TYSON: Please swear in the witness.
5 AISHA ABDUR-RAHMAN, having been first duly
6 sworn was examined and testified as follows:
7 MR. TYSON: I would just like to note for
8 the record that the board of education received
9 the notice of this deposition and is not

1 o present. Okay.
11 EXAMINATION
12 BY-MR. TYSON:
13 Q. Ms. Abdur-Rahman, my name is Bryan Tyson.
14 We met a few minutes ago. I'll kind of finish my
15 initial preamble things for the record. I represent
16 the Fayette County Board of Commissioners, along with
17 Anne Lewis from my office, who may be coming in a
18 little bit later.
1 9 The purpose of our deposition today is to
20 get some information about your claims against
21 Fayette County. My goal is not to try to confuse you
22 or ask you trick questions along the way. I have a
23 tendency to ask very long questions. So if you get
24 to be — if I get to the end of a question, and you
2 5 have no idea what I said, just let me know that, and

1 I'll rephrase the question. I also tend to get
2 rolling and talk quickly. So if I'm getting too
3 fast, just put up your hands and tell me to slow
4 down, and I'll do that.
5 For the court reporter's sake, it's best
6 for both of us to speak clearly and loudly enough for
7 her to hear us. She also can't record "uh-huh" or 
s "huh-uh" or nods of the head on the transcript, so 
9 "yes" and "no" is the preferred answer.

10 A. Okay.
n  Q. And in conversation, I know we tend to
12 talk over each other sometimes, but for the sake of
13 the transcript, it's easiest if I can finish asking
14 my question and then to have you answer. And so I'll
15 try to let you finish your answer before I pose my
16 next question, and we can keep a clean transcript
17 that way.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. If you need a break, just let me know
2 0 that. But my only request is that you answer the
21 last question I asked before we take a break.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. All right. So basically how I'm going to
24 go here is I'll start with some
2 5 background/biographical information about you. And

5 7
1 after we finish that section, we'll move into your
2 claims specifically about Fayette County. And then
3 we'll look at some documents in a little while.
4 So can you go ahead and state your full
5 name for the record, please.
6 A. Aisha Abdur-Rahman.
7 Q. And what is your address?
8 A. 110 Benson Circle, Fayetteville, Georgia
9 30214.

1 0  Q. Okay. And are you married?
11 A. Yes.
1 2  Q. And what is your husband's name?
13 A. Ali Abdur-Rahman.
14 Q. And he is also a plaintiff in this 
i s  lawsuit?
1 6  A. Yes.
17 Q. And I may already know the answer to this
1 8  question, but how long have you lived in Fayette
19 County?
20  A. Since the end of 2004.
2 1  Q. And prior to moving to Fayette County, did
22  you live in Fulton County?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And how long did you live in Fulton
25  County?

6 8
1 A. For about 12 months.
2 Q. And prior to living in Fulton County, am I
3 correct that you lived in Los Angeles, California?
4 A. Yes.

| 5 Q. I'll just use Mr. Abdur-Rahman's
6 information here. And was that from approximately
7 1996 to 2004?
8 A. Well, I actually moved there first.
9 Q. Oh, okay.

1 0  A. So I lived there from '95 to 2004.
n  Q. And then prior to that, did you live in
1 2  Brooklyn, New York?
13 A. Yes.
1 4  Q. And that was -- that's from approximately
15 '89 to '95?
1 6  A. Well, again, I moved there before my
17 husband.
1 8  Q. Okay.
19 A. So I moved there in 1988.
20  Q. Okay. And then where did you live before
2 1  Brooklyn, New York?
22  A. In Columbus, Ohio.
23 Q. All right. And what years did you live in
24 Columbus, Ohio?
25 A. 1972 t o - - well, I actually moved to New

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta Street 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman June 6, 2012
17 19

1 A. 1 would be a super voter. l  the county commission about those roads?

2 Q. Okay. Do you remember when you first 2 A. I've complained to the county commission

3 registered to vote? 3 maybe about three years ago.

4 A. In 1968, yeah. 4 Q. Okay. But you haven't contacted anyone in

5 Q. A lot was happening that year. 5 the last three years?

6 A. Uh-huh. 6 A. No.

7 Q. Do you hold any other licenses or 7 Q. Do you remember who you talked to three

8 certifications professionally besides the ones we've 8 years ago?

9 already discussed? 9 A. 1 remember there was a woman, and 1 want

10 A. No. 10 to say her name is Ann, but, you know, 1 couldn't

n  Q. Okay. Fiave you ever had to - - ever been n  swear to that without calling again and asking her

12 terminated from a job or resigned in lieu of 12 name. But 1 remember 1 spoke to her. She had asked

13 termination or have you always been able to leave on 13 if 1 could meet with the Post 5 commissioner. She

14 your own terms? 14 seemed to be the person who was, you know, traffic

15 A. 1 always left on my own terms. 15 control. And for whatever reason, 1 never was able

16 Q. All right. So what 1 want to do now is 16 to meet with that person, so 1 just expressed my

17 move into a little more about the specific case here 17 complaints to her.

18 in Fayette County. What made you decide to sue 18 Q. And was your inability to meet with them,

19 Fayette County? 19 was it just scheduling problems? What was the reason

20 A. 1 really think that I'm entitled as a 2 o why?

21  taxpayer here and as a citizen to be able to elect a 21  A. There was no -  1 mean, 1 never got a

2 2 candidate of my choice who will represent my 22 reason. 1 just put in the request, and the request

23 interests. 23 was never honored.

24 Q. And you believe that currently you can't 24 Q. Okay. So you just never heard back?

25 elect a candidate of choice; is that right? 25 A. 1 heard back from her a couple of times

18 20
i  A. Yes. i  that she would get back to me.
2 Q. And when you say that will represent your 2 Q. But then she just stopped getting back to
3 interests, what interests are those? 3 you at some point?
4 A. Whether it be improvements and the 4 A. Yeah, just stopped getting back to me.
5 conditions of the roads in my subdivision; s Q. And then you never tried to follow up
6 improvements in the condition of the provision of 6 again after that?
7 facilities, you know, that 1 can use and get to 7 A. No, 1 didn't follow up after that.
8 easily; you know, hearing me on an issue, you know, 8 Q. All right. You also mentioned facilities
9 if we need sirens in the north end of the county, you 9 that you can use and get to easily. Are you

10 know, 1 should be able to have an effect on getting 10 referring to Kenwood Park there or are you referring
1 1  those sirens up there and so forth. l l  to something else?
12 Q. Okay. So you talk about improvement in 12 A. Well, Kenwood Park would be an example,
13 roads being an interest for you. Are there examples 13 but also 1 like to swim. 1 like to swim a lot. I'd
14 you have where roads have not been improved that 14 like to be able to go to some place other than
15 should have been improved? 15 Peachtree City to find some type of public swimming
16 A. 1 believe the conditions of the roads in 16 facility.
17 my subdivision currently need to be improved. 17 Q. Do you know if the County currently
18 Q. And have you contacted-- 18 operates any public swimming facilities?
19 A. And I believe that the sewer system in my 19 A. 1 don't know. 1 just know they have an
2 0 neighborhood needs to be improved. 1 think that 2 0 aquatic center in Peachtree City. 1 don’t know who
21 Kenwood Park in my area needs to be completed. The 21 operates it, but 1 know it's a nice one. But I'd
22 build needs to be completed, and the facilities need 22 like something like that at our end of the county or
2 3 to be properly maintained. 23 even closer to me.
24 Q. Regarding the current status of the roads 24 Q. Any other facilities that you'd like to

: 25 in your subdivision, have you contacted any member of 2 5 see in your area?

VC

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman ___________________  June 6, 2 012
21

1 A. I'd like to see baseball facilities in
2 Kenwood Park. I'd like to see more pavilions for
3 people to have picnics. I'd like to see the track
4 maintained better. I'd like to see some control of
5 the out-of-county traffic that frequents the park.
6 I’d definitely like to see an improvement in the
7 water system in my subdivision. Water there smells
8 horrible, and it tastes horrible.
9 Q. And I'll come back to the water and sewer

10 here in a minute. So regarding baseball fields and
1 1  pavilions, if the rest of Kenwood Park is built
12 according to the various phases, will that add
13 baseball and pavilion facilities to Kenwood Park or
14 do you know?
is  A. From what I’ve been told, because I've
16 asked it, but only asked the person who attended some
17 meetings. Baseball facilities were requested before
18 the park was built, but never built. And 1 don't
19 know if there is any plans to build any now.
20 Q. Okay. Have you reviewed the master plan
21 for Kenwood Park to figure out if baseball fields are
22 on the agenda?
2 3 A. No, 1 haven't.
2 4 Q. Okay. Now, you say you want the track to 
25 be maintained better. Is the track something that

23
1 Q. You also mentioned that out-of-county
2 traffic in the park. What are you referring to
3 there?
4 A. There are a lot of people who use the park
5 who don't live in Fayette County. And so, you know,
6 if you’re trying to get the limited pavilions that
7 are there, you know, that's an issue because they're
8 occupied by people who don't --1 don't know if they
9 could institute maybe some type of pass or something 

10 like that to get into the park. 1 don't know, you
n  know, exactly how they might control that. But the
12 best solution to me would be to build some more
13 pavilions, b u t. . .
14 Q. And how do you know that the people who
15 are there using the pavilions are not from Fayette
16 County?
17 A. Because, you know, I've talked to them,
18 hi, how are you doing, or they may have a sign
19 so-and-so party or you know such-and-such reunion,
20 o r . . .
21 Q. And have you contacted the commission
22 about the out-of-county traffic in the park?
23 A. No, not the commission, but parks and
24 recreation.
25 Q. And what did parks and recreation tell

22
1 you use?
2 A. I have used it, you know, started walking
3 and using the track on several different starts. And
4 every time 1 start again, you know, it's worse than
5 the last time 1 started.
6 Q. When you say "it’s worse," does that refer
7 to -- is it uneven? What are the problems?
8 A. Uneven surfaces, you know, gravel sort of
9 coming up out of the --1 don’t know what the black

10 stuff is, but it seems like it’s disintegrating, in
11 other words.
12 Q. And have you contacted anyone in the
13 county commission about the maintenance on the track?
14 A. Parks and recreation, not the county
15 commission.
16 Q. And what did parks and rec tell you?
17 A. You know that those surfaces are improved
18 according to a schedule, and that will be approved
19 when it’s scheduled.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. And according to what budget is allocated
22 by the commission.
23 Q. But you haven't come to the commission to
24 ask them to set that budget apart?
25 A. No, 1 haven't. No.

24

1 you?
2 A. You know, that there is really no
3 effective way to control that, short of, you know, if
4 you have to scan your way in or something, scan your
5 way out, so . . .
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. 1 don't see any way to really come up with
8 a solution.
9 Q. You also mentioned one of your interests

10 is being heard on an issue of concern to you. Can
11  you give me an example or a situation where you
12 weren't heard on an issue.
13 A. On the issue of Commissioner Horgan,
14 particularly with respect to his conviction for
15 possession of marijuana and driving around the county
16 with it in his car. You know, 1 think that the
17 commission chambers were full of people from my
18 subdivision, myself included, and some other
19 subdivisions in other parts of the county to protest 
2 0 his continued service on the commission.
21 And not only was he not -  not only did he 
2 2 not resign, you know, which was asked of him, but he
23 was also not in my opinion appropriately or
24 meaningfully sanctioned. In fact, the commission
2 5 seemed to think it was the proper time to praise his

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 17

Aisha Abdur - Rahman_____________________________________ June 6, 2012
25 27

1 service on the commission right in the middle of 1 immediately when 1 lived here that whenever the
2 those hearings, which was a slap in the face of 2 sirens were said to be going off, we never heard them
3 everybody there. 3 where 1 lived. And so 1 eventually ended up talking
4 Q. At the meeting where the chamber was full 4 to Peter Nelms, who was from the fire department,
5 of people to protest Commissioner Horgan’s 5 and, you know, calling him over a course of a year
6 conviction, were there people of all races from 6 and a half or two years, you know, asking when were
7 Fayette County there? 7 we going to get a siren put in the north end, so we
8 A. Yes. There were predominantly minorities, 8 can hear when the siren went off.
9 but there were other people other than minorities 9 1 mean, there are several -- several

10 there. 10 subdivisions up there, and nobody could hear
11 Q. And what do you think would have been an 11 anything. And so finally there was a siren put on
12 appropriate sanction for Commissioner Horgan? 12 Ford Road, but it was done with, from what 1
13 A. Well, 1 think he should have resigned. 13 understand from him, it was never any money allocated
14 Q. Okay. Do you think the commission should 14 by the county for that. That money had to be gotten
15 have done something different, though? 15 from some place else, and that was why it took so
16 A. Yes. 1 think they should have -- they 16 long to get the siren.
17 should have sanctioned him with the most severe 17 Q. Now, you said you contacted Peter Nelms
18 sanction that they could mete out. 18 about it. Did you ever contact any county
19 Q. Do you know what that most severe sanction 19 commissioners about the siren?
20 would be? 20 A. 1 contacted the same woman that 1 was
21. A. 1 know that they had monetary options at 21 speaking of before, and she referred me to him.
22 their disposal. 1 don't recall right now what the 22 Q. Okay.
23 limits were, but the $200 that 1 believe they fined 23 A. So that's how 1 got his name.
24 him was certainly not the maximum. 24 Q. But you never spoke directly with any
25 Q. Do you know if Commissioner Florgan also 25 county commissioner about the issue?

26 28
1 paid a fine as a result of his conviction? 1 A. No. I've never been able to speak to any
2 A. 1 believe he did, according to the Fayette 2 county commissioner directly about anything other
3 County Daily Reporter. 3 than in the meetings.
4 Q. And is it your testimony that in the 4 Q. Beyond the situation three years ago when
5 meeting where people were present to protest 5 you tried to get in touch about your roads and your
6 Commissioner Horgan's conviction that other 6 subdivision and the siren situation, have you ever
7 commissioners praised his service at that same 7 tried to talk to a county commissioner otherwise?
8 meeting? 8 A. Not that 1 specifically recall.
9 A. Well, 1 believe the head of the commission 9 Q. And it's your understanding Mr. Nelms told

10 took that time to either read into the record or pass 10 you that the funds were not allocated by the county,
11 around a letter saying, you know, he had done a great 11 but instead came from some other source.
12 job on the commission. 1 believe that was -- 12 A. They had to get a grant or some type of
13 person's last name was Smith. 13 allocation from some outside source in order to get
14 Q. And Smith was the chairman of the 14 the sirens put up there.
15 commission at the time? 15 Q. And do you know if that was the way that
16 A. As far as 1 know. 16 Fayette County had funded all the sirens located in
17 Q. And you assume that would be reflected in 17 the county or do you have any idea?
18 the minutes of the meeting? 18 A. No, 1 don't have any idea about that.
19 A. 1 would assume so. So even if it was 19 Q. But today the siren is there; is that
20 appropriate for him to get such an accolade, it 20 right?

'21 certainly wasn't appropriate at that time. 21 A. Yes, it’s there now.
22 Q. You also mentioned sirens in the north end 22 Q. When did you first contact someone about
23 of the county. Can you tell me about that situation? 23 installing a siren?
24 A. Well, you know, they have sirens that 24 A. Probably had to be about -  let's see. 1
25 would go off, and 1 noticed, you know, almost 25 would say at least early 2006.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutlons.com

http://www.esquiresolutlons.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman ___  _____________  June 6, 2 012
29

1 Q. And when did the siren finally get
2 installed?
3 A. What is this? 2011.
4 Q. So it's five years?
5 A. Uh-huh.
6 Q. How many times do you think you talked to
7 Peter Nelms during that five-year period?
8 A. Oh, let's see. Maybe 10.
9 Q. Okay. So you called him basically once 

10 every six months?
n  A. Pretty much, and he would send me e-mails,
12 you know, sort of updates. And then when it finally
13 got installed, he sent me the notice to pass it
14 around to my -- to let people know in my subdivision
15 of when to call and what the sirens meant and so on
16 and so forth. So he was familiar with it.
17 Q. Are the sirens automatically activated if
18 there is a weather warning of some sort?
19 A. 1 don't know how they get activated,
2 o but -  you know, whether someone has to turn them on,
21 or, you know.
22 Q. And during this five-year period when you 
2 3 were trying to get it installed and contacting
24 Mr. Nelms, how many times did you attempt to reach
25 the commission? Did you just try one time and talked

31
1 fire hydrants, and that should improve it, but it
2 didn't. So 1 called back and said it was still about
3 the same.
4 Q. So is it accurate to say that the issues
5 you're having is with the water side o f things, not
6 with the sewer side of things?
7 A. Well, 1 don't know if the odor is coming
8 from -  well, we don't have -  we have septic tanks.
9 Q. Okay.

10 A. So 1 would probably have to say it's
11 water.
12 Q. So the county doesn't provide sewer
13 service in your area?
14 A. No.
is  Q. Okay. Is the water smelling and tasting 
is  unusual, is it intermittent or is it constant?
17 A. The taste is constant. The smell is
18 intermittent.
19 Q. And how many times do you think you've 
2 o contacted the water department about that?
21  A, Three or four.
22 Q. And over how long a period?
23 A. About two years.
24 Q. Okay. Do you know if that -  the water
25 department is operated by Fayette County, or it's

30
1 to this woman you spoke with previously.
2 A. Uh-huh. Once 1 was referred to him and he
3 responded, 1 just assumed he was the appropriate
4 person to be speaking to.
5 Q. Okay. So your initial contact 1 guess was
6 with the commission, and they referred you to
7 Mr. Nelms, and you just stayed in touch with him
8 after that?
9 A. Him and another person that he referred me

10 to who was supposed to be working on getting this
11  grant money.
12 Q. Okay. And did you do any work to help
13 assist get that -- getting that grant money?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you know the process that Mr. Nelms or
16 someone else went through to get the grant money?
17 A. No.
18 Q. All right. You also mentioned sewer
19 service in your subdivision. What’s going on with 
2 0 that?
21 A. Well, like 1 said, the water has a bad
22 smell and a bad taste. So 1 called the Fayette
2 3 County Water System Department, and they, you know,
24 have not sent anybody out to check or -- they sent -
25 they one time told me somebody came and flushed the

32
1 contracted with someone else?
2 A. 1 don't know that.
3 Q. And have you ever attempted to contact a
4 commissioner about the water issues?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Just to make sure I've got everything kind
7 of talked through here as far as the interests that
8 you want to see represented, we've talked about the
9 improvement in the roads in your subdivision;

10 facilities that you can use and get to easily;
1 1  Kenwood Park with its issues there with its
12 construction and with its maintenance; a swimming
13 facility that you would like to see built; being able
14 to be heard on issues like Commissioner Horgan and
15 his conviction; establishing sirens in the north end
16 of the county; and then the water issues you've had
17 in your subdivision. Is there anything else that's
18 not on that list?
19 A. You know, there are things that will come 
2 0 up from time to time that 1 would want to be heard
21 on. You know, 1 would want to feel that 1 could be
22 heard at any time by a commissioner that represented
23 me on any issue that should ever come up. Those are
24 some that are highlighted in my mind at the moment,
25 but 1 wouldn't say that's all that has ever been or

ESQUIRE
[ ; U ; 0 5 : ! t O N  S O t U H G N S

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman June 6, 2012
33

1 will ever be.
2 Q. Well, 1 am — 1 guess I'm just asking you
3 sitting here today you can't think of anything else
4 that comes to mind?
5 A. I'm also --1 have some concerns about
6 police presence in my end of the county. But again,
7 you know, I've directed those concerns to the
8 sheriffs department.
9 Q. Okay. Have you ever attempted to contact 

10 a county commissioner about the police presence 
u  issues?
12 A. No, not — no.
13 Q. How many times do you think you've
14 contacted the sheriffs department about police
15 presence?
16 A. Probably two or three, maybe four.
17 Q. Over how many years?
18 A. Four years.
19 Q. Anything else that you can think of
2 0 sitting here today? Obviously, 1 know there will be
21  other issues that come up along the way, b u t. . .
22 A. None that 1 can recall presently.
23 Q. Okay. And these were the primary issues
24 that motivated you to file this lawsuit; is that
25 right?

35
1 Q. And how did she explain that the -- what
2 the lawsuit would do? Did she explain it was a
3 Voting Rights Act lawsuit or it was about district
4 voting or was — or what the description was?
5 A. It was about at-large voting and, you
6 know, getting rid of that.
7 Q. Have you ever attended any Fayette County
8 Commission meetings?
9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Have you ever spoken at a Fayette County
11 Commission meeting?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And what did you speak about?
14 A. About Horgan.
15 Q. Okay. Besides anything about Commissioner
1 6 Horgan, have you ever spoken at any other public
17 meeting?
18 A. Not that 1 recall.
19 Q. So after Ms. Jones told you about this
20 lawsuit, you said you were interested, what happened
21 next? Had a lawyer contacted you or did Ms. Jones
22 give you somebody to contact?
23 A. 1 believe she gave me someone to contact.
24 Q. Okay. And do you remember who that was?
25 A. 1 want to say it was Wayne Kendall, but 1

34
1 A. No.
2 Q. Having those interests represented? I'm
3 sorry.
4 A. I'd say the primary issue is being able to
5 be heard by a commissioner of my choice. Having -
6 being able to elect one and being able to be heard by
7 one.
8 Q. When did you first learn about this
9 lawsuit?

10 A. 1 would say probably -  well, it was 
n  sometime before it was filed, but 1 don't remember
12 exactly the date.
13 Q. Okay. Do you remember if you contacted a
14 lawyer or if someone contacted you?
15 A. 1 heard about it through one of my
16 neighbors.
17 Q. Which neighbor, do you remember?
18 A. Alice Jones.
19 Q. And what did Ms. Jones tell you about the
20 lawsuit?
21 A. Without remembering specifically our
22 conversation, she just made me aware that, you know,
23 there was the possibility of a lawsuit being filed
24 and would 1 be interested in being a plaintiff if one 
2 5 was filed, and 1 said, yes, 1 certainly would.

36
1 can't say specifically who 1 contacted in what order.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. 1 know at some point 1 contacted him.
4 Q. And at the time you contacted Mr. Kendall,
5 had you decided to retain him as your attorney?
6 A. No. 1 think 1 was looking for
7 information.
8 Q. Okay. Did you have any conversations with
9 Mr, Kendall before you retained him as your lawyer?

10 A. Yeah, 1 did.
11 Q. And tell me about those before you made
12 the decision to talk to — retain him as counsel.
13 A. 1 don't remember specifically what we
14 discussed, just in general the possibility of this
15 lawsuit.
16 Q. Okay. Do you remember when you first
17 spoke with Mr. Haygood or Ms. Aden?
18 A. 1 want to say that we may have already
1 9 filed the lawsuit by then.
20 Q. Okay. Did you attend any meetings about
21 this lawsuit where there were not attorneys present?
22 A. No.
23 Q. And do you know if you have a fee contract
24 with Mr. Kendall or Mr. Haygood or Ms. Aden?
25 A. If 1 have one personally?

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman June 6, 2012
37 39

1 Q. Yes. l not pleadings in this case, things like that.

2 A. 1 believe -- no, 1 don't believe 1 do. 1 2 A. Not that 1 recall.

3 mean if 1 do, 1 don't recall. 3 Q. Okay. We will come back to Exhibit 1A

4 Q. Okay. That's totally fine. 4 then.

5 A. 1 don't recall. 5 Q. Let me hand you what we have marked as

6 Q. Like 1 said before, not remembering is 6 Exhibit 2 and ask if you recognize that as the
7 totally fine. It's not a test. 7 complaint filed in this case.

8 A. 1 know we -- there's documents, but 1 8 A. Yes.

9 don't recall -- 9 Q. And do you remember when you first saw

10 Q. Okay. 10 this document?
11 A. — if any of them specifically are fee 11 A. No, I don't remember when I first saw it.

12 arrangements. 12 Q. Do you remember reading this document

13 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've marked as 13 before?

14 Exhibits 1 and Exhibit 1A. 14 A. Yes.

15 A. Okay. 15 Q. And did you read it before it was filed or

16 Q. And that should be the verification -  or 16 after?
17 I guess I'll ask you first about Exhibit 1. Do you 17 A. I don't recall.

18 recognize that document as the verification you 18 Q. Okay. Ms. Abdur-Rahman, I'm going to hand
19 provided with the responses to the interrogatories? 19 you what we've marked as Exhibit 3. Do you recognize

20 A. Yes. 20 that as the request for production of documents and
21 Q. And is that -- 21 responses to those in this case?
22 A. I mean, I recognize my signature on this 22 A. That's what it says.
23 document, yes. 23 Q. Okay. If you don't mind for me just to
24 Q. Okay. And those are verification — was 24 clarify the question about documents, if you could
25 that a verification for Exhibit 1A which is titled, 25 just flip through after the pleadings in that

38 40
1 Plaintiffs' Responses -  Plaintiffs' Responses to 1 document, in Exhibit 3, there's some documents
2 Defendant Fayette County Board of Commissioners' 2 beginning with Plaintiffs 001 number down there. If
3 First Interrogatories to Plaintiffs? 3 you could look through that for me and see if you
4 A. Yes. 4 provided any of those documents. I don't want to go
5 Q. Okay. And do you recognize Exhibit 1 A? 5 through every single one if you haven't, but . . .
6 You can take some time to look through it, if you’d 6 A. Plaintiffs 0001. Let me give you that
7 like to. 7 one.
8 A. Yes, I recognize this. 8 Now, is the question did I provide any of
9 Q. Did you provide any information for the 9 these documents?

10 responses to interrogatories in this case that are 10 Q. Yes, that's the question.
11 contained in Exhibit 1A? 11 A. No.
12 A. Well, I'd have to read it from page 1 to 12 Q. Okay. And you don't have any other
13 the end to tell you. 13 documents related to this case in your possession, is
14 Q. Okay. 14 that right, that you have not provided to your
15 A. Because I can't tell you off the top of my 15 counsel already?
16 head, but I'm assuming that I did. 16 A, Be more specific.
17 Q. Okay. 17 Q. And I'm asking -- we served a number of
18 A. That would make sense. 18 document requests on your attorneys.
19 Q. Got it. Well, we'll walk through it iri a 19 A. Uh-huh.
20 minute then. Have you provided any documents to your 20 Q. Do you have any documents that you know of
21 attorneys related to this case? 21 that are responsive to those requests that you have
22 A. Things that I've been asked to sign maybe, 22 not provided to your counsel?
23 things like that. 23 A. No.
24 Q. And what I'm referring to is documents 24 Q. Okay. Flave you ever been prohibited from
25 related to district voting, at-large voting, that are 25 registering to vote based on your race?

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman______________________________________ June 6, 2 012
41 43

l  A. No. 1  A. There was --1 don't recall his name right
2 Q. Have you ever been prohibited from 2 now, but it was a black Republican candidate who was
3 participating in the political process based on your 3 a sheriff, 1 believe, in Detroit. And he was highly
4 race? 4 qualified, couple of masters' degrees, couple of sort
5 A. No one's told me that 1 couldn't 5 of big police commands, you know, very qualified
6 participate based on my race. 6 candidate who was preferred -  who was not elected
7 Q. And you've never been prevented -  you've 7 over the candidate who was elected with a high school
8 never been stopped in any way from participating in 8 diploma.
9 the political process? 9 Q. And do you remember the candidate that was

1 0  A. How far back do you want to go? 1 0  elected name?
i i  Q. Well, let me just limit it to Fayette l l  A. The one that's sheriff now.
1 2  County? 1 2  Q. Okay. Okay.
13 A. Oh, no. 13 A. Incumbent sheriff. Uh-huh.
14 Q. Okay. That will be easier because 1 know 14 Q. And so was this the election held after
15 you've had quite the experience getting arrested. Do 15 Sheriff Johnson retired?
1 6  you know what the term "racially polarized voting" 1 6  A. 1 don't know who Sheriff Johnson is -
17 means? 17 Q. Okay.
1 8  A. Yes. 1 8  A. -- so . . .
19 Q. Okay. And what does that mean? 19 Q. But it's your testimony that racial
20 A. That people of the same race would tend to 20 polarization happens in every election held in
2 1  vote for the same -  you know, in the same way. 2 1  Fayette County?
22  Q, Do you have any personal knowledge about 22  A. That's my belief.
23 racial polarization in voting happening in Fayette 2 3 Q. Okay. And what is that belief based on?
24 County? 24 A. Well, 1 -- because there’s never ever been
25  A. What do you mean by "personal knowledge"? 2 5 a black candidate that’s ever been elected to office

42 44
l  Q. Do you know of any situation, any election l  in this county since I've lived here. Although,
2 where that's happened, where racial polarization in 2 from, you know, just polling my neighbors and my own
3 voting has occurred in Fayette County? 3 opinion, 1 know that we've been desirous of having a
4 A. 1 believe it occurs in every -  every race 4 black candidate elected.
5 in Fayette County. 5 Q. And when you say "we," you're referring to
6 Q. Okay. So starting with the -  with the 6 the African-American community in Fayette County?
7 2010 elections, who was the candidate that was 7 A. Yes.
8 preferred by the black community in that election? 8 Q. Does Representative Virgil Fludd live in
9 A. Now, those were the elections fo r . . . 9 Fayette County, do you know?

1 0  Q. The county commission. I'm sorry. 1 1 0  A. 1 don't know where he lives.
l l  should have clarified. Yes. l l  Q. So if -  let me go back. Do you know if
1 2  A. Okay. 1 don't know who ran. 1 can't tell 1 2  Hispanic voters in Fayette County favor one race of
13 you election-by-election who ran. If you showed me 13 candidates over another?
1 4  the names, 1 might know. 14 A. No, 1 couldn't say. 1 don't know.
15 Q. Okay. But it's your testimony - 15 Q. In your opinion, do -  and based on your
1 6  A. 1 don't recall election -  the one that 1 6  experience, polling your neighbors, and those kind of
17 stands out most significantly was the sheriff's race 17 things, do African-American voters in Fayette County
1 8  that was conducted here. 1 8  generally vote for Democratic candidates?
19 Q. Okay. Do you remember what year that 19 A. 1 would say -  1 don't know that I'd say
20 happened? 20 that. I'd say that generally they'd want the most
2 1  A. It wasn't 2010. It wasn’t 2008, so I 2 1  qualified candidate.
22  believe it was prior to 2008. 22  Q. Okay. Do you think that partisan issues
2 3  Q. Okay. And who was the candidate -  do you 23 play any role in what might appear as racially
24 remember which candidate was preferred by the 24 polarized voting, as you've described it?
25 minority community? 25  A. That's possible.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman _______________________________ June 6, 2 012
45 47

1 Q. So it's possible that we have partisan l Q. Okay. And do you believe that at-large
2 polarization in voting that just looks like racial 2 voting is discriminatory in part because -  or 1 must
3 polarization as you've defined it? 3 say -- let me ask it this way: Why do you believe
4 A. That's possible, but given my experience 4 at-large voting is discriminatory?
5 particularly with the sheriffs election, 1 mean 1 5 A. Because 1 believe that people base -
6 would say that wasn’t true because he was a 6 engage in racially polarized voting here.
7 registered Republican, or he is a Republican. 7 Q. Do you think that people would stop
8 Q. Was the sheriff election you're referring 8 engaging in racially polarized voting if district
9 to, was it a primary election between two Republicans 9 voting was used?

10 or was it a general election between a Republican and 10 A. 1 have no way to know that, but 1 know
11 a Democrat? 11 that 1 would feel 1 was getting a fair shake to get
12 A. 1 believe it was -  1 don’t recall, 12 somebody in office to represent my district,.
13 actually. 13 Q. If an African-American was elected
14 Q. Okay. 14 countywide using at-large voting, would you still
15 A. 1 don't recall. 15 believe that at-large voting was discriminatory?
16 Q. Flave you ever looked at or studied black 16 A. Yes.
17 turnout in Fayette County? 17 Q. And why would you believe that?
18 A. No. 18 A. Because of the history of voting in this
19 Q. And you're aware, aren't you, that Fayette 19 county that I’ve experienced so far.
20 County uses a majority vote requirement, you have to 20 Q. And that's the history you've experienced
21 get 50 percent plus 1 to win office; is that right? 21 from 2005 to the present?
22 A. As far as I know. 22 A. Uh-huh.
23 Q. And is it your opinion that a majority 23 Q. And when you say "the history of voting,"
24 vote requirement is a good requirement? 24 are you referring to the fact that no
25 A. Say that again. 25 African-American has won office since you moved here

1
46

Q. Well, let me ask my question a different 1
48

in 2005?
2 way. Do you prefer a system where a candidate has to 2 A. in particular, county commission or school
3 get more than half of the support of the community to 3 board office.
4 be elected? 4 Q. Do you know of any African-American that’s
5 A. I would say generally speaking, yes. 5 been elected in Fayette County to a county office
6 Q. So as a general rule, you wouldn’t call 6 ever?
7 that a discriminatory system? 7 A. 1 mean, 1 don't know the history of
8 A. Not if the area that the person was being 8 Fayette County that much -  1 mean, that well to
9 elected for, that decision was being made by the 9 know.

10 people who lived in that area. 10 Q. Do you know how many African-Americans
11 Q. Okay. So if you were in a district voting 11 have run for office in Fayette County?
12 scheme, for example, you would support a majority 12 A. No, not specifically.
13 vote requirement? 13 Q. Do you know since you've moved here in
14 A. Yes. If you voted based on districts. 14 2005 how many opportunities you've had to vote for an
15 Q. Have you ever heard the term "anti-single 15 African-American candidate?
16 shot" provision? 16 A. 1 would say maybe in three elections, at
17 A. No. 17 least, 1 would say.
18 Q. Okay. Do you know of or can you tell me 18 Q. You don't vote for candidates by slate in
19 any voting practice or procedure that Fayette County 19 Fayette County, do you?
20 uses that discriminates against a minority group? 20 A. What do you mean by that?
21 A. I would say at-large voting. 21 Q. Where you vote for a slate instead of
22 Q. Okay. Besides at-large voting, does 22 individual candidates; you vote for a group of
23 Fayette County use any other practice or procedure 23 candidates together?
24 that discriminates against a minority group? 24 A. 1 don't. 1 vote for them individually.
25 A. Not that I know of. 25 Q. Okay. Can you tell me why you decided to

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman_____________________________________ June 6 , 2012
49 51

1 move to Fayette County instead of some other county l  education keeps African-Americans from participating
2 in the Atlanta area? 2 in Fayette County politics?
3 A. Because the house 1 wanted to buy was at a 3 A. No, that's not my experience. 1 mean, 1
4 good price. 4 don't believe that to be the case.
5 Q. All right. That's a very good reason. 5 Q. Does a lack of employment opportunities
6 Any other reasons? 6 keep African-Americans from participating in Fayette
7 A. That's pretty much all 1 knew about it at 7 County politics?
8 the time. 8 A. 1 don’t know that to be the case at all.
9 Q. Okay. Did most of your neighbors — or 1 9 Q. If 1 was to say a campaign was

10 may have asked you this: Are most of your neighbors 10 characterized by "racial appeals," would that — what
l l  African-American? l l  does that mean to you? Does that mean anything?
12 A. Yes. • 12 A. Ask me that again.
13 Q. Did most of them move here as adults or 13 Q. If 1 were to use the term a campaign was
14 did they move here — or did they grow up in the 14 characterized by "racial appeals," does that mean
15 county? 15 anything to you?
is  A. 1 have no idea. 16 A. Well, what that would mean to me is 1
17 Q. Have any of your neighbors ever told you 17 guess whoever was campaigning might be making
18 why they moved to Fayette County? 18 promises or making accusations or charges that they
19 A. I’m sure that they have, but 1 don't have 19 feel would influence one race rather than another.
20 — 1 couldn’t recite a specific conversation about 20 Q. And would — is it accurate to say based
21 that. 21 on your definition that when a campaign is making
22 Q. And 1 know you moved here after your 2 2 racial appeals it's asking voters to either overtly
23 children were older, but do you have any personal 2 3 or subtly vote for a candidate because of their race?
24 knowledge of whether there is any racial 24 A. 1 would say that's what that means to me.
25 discrimination in the education system in Fayette 2 5 Q. Okay. Have you ever personally seen a

50 52
l  County? i  campaign that was characterized by racial appeals in
2 A. Not from personal experience, no. 2 Fayette County?
3 Q. Anything you've heard about that topic? 3 A. Oh, okay.
4 A. Yes. 4 Q. Sorry. 1 don't want to reach all the way
5 Q, What have you heard? 5 back.
s A. That there are incidents of racial 6 A. Okay. All throughout the world? I'm
7 discrimination in the schools. 7 trying to be fair here. 1 would have to say because
8 Q. What kind of examples have you heard? 8 where 1 might have seen that would be the newspapers.
9 A. Just the — on how an African-American 9 1 can't say that 1 would then say that was the

10 student might be treated for an infringement versus a 10 candidate's choice to do that. But 1 could say that,
l l  non-African-American student. l l  you know, the newspapers seem to be slanted in one
12 Q. And do you have any specific examples that 1 2 direction here.
13 you are aware of? 13 Q. Okay. Can you give me an example of that,
14 A. 1 mean, 1 don't because my children -- 14 where that's occurred?
15 well, my daughter never attended school here 15 A. Well, the greatest example 1 can give you
16 because -- this is just things I've heard. 16 is when Barack Obama was elected President of the
17 Q. And who told you that? 17 United States. He was the first African-American
18 A. Various neighbors. 18 ever elected in U.S. history. The Fayette County
19 Q. Okay. Do you know any of their names? 1 9 Daily recorded — reported zero information about
2 0 A. Not that 1 can recall at the moment. 20 that. Never printed a single word about it.
21  Q. Okay. Is it your experience that a lack 21 Q. That's very unusual.
22 of education keeps African-Americans from 22 A. It's unusual to me.
2 3 participating in Fayette County politics? 2 3 Q. How about county offices; have any
24 A. Is it my - 24 campaigns for the board of commissioners presented
25 Q. Is it your experience that a lack of 2 5 any racial appeals or newspapers' slanted coverage in

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman ____________________________________June 6, 2 012
53 55

1 those types of races? 1 A. Well, of course, there are. But I'd say
2 A. To me, there -- some of the — 1 subscribe 2 by-and-large the majority of people in the area are
3 to the paper because, 1 mean, you know, keep your 3 minority.
4 friends close and your enemies closer. But 1 mean, 1 4 Q. And so the different needs you've
5 can say that the paper itself as a whole seems 5 identified between the minority community and the
6 slanted in my view. 6 white residents of Fayette County is really focused
7 Q. And slanted in which direction, toward 7 on access to services in a particular area, is that
8 Republicans or -- 8 right, like Kenwood Park?
9 A. Yes, toward Republicans. 9 A. Can you say that again?

10 Q. So really a partisan siant? 10 Q. Is it accurate to say that the needs of
11 A. Yes. 11 the minority community in Fayette County that are
12 Q. And you said you're not aware of any 12 different from the needs of the white community focus
13 candidates who are making racial appeals, just the 13 on access to services in particular places of the
14 reporting about them; is that right? 14 county, so like Kenwood Park in your area?
15 A. That's all 1 really have experience with. 15 A. I'm not sure what you mean by that.
16 just reporting about them. 16 Q. Okay. Let me try again. 1 asked about
17 Q. So you've never personally seen a 17 whether there were any needs in the minority
18 candidate make an overt or a subtle racial appeal? 18 community that are different from the white
19 A. No, 1 can't say that 1 have. 1 can say 19 community, and you said by-and-large they're the
20 that the absence of signs of certain candidates in my 20 same, but there could be specific ones like Kenwood
21 neighborhood might suggest that. But, you know, just 21 Park where there is a different need. And 1 guess my
22 maybe they didn't have enough signs to go around. 22 question is: How do you know that that’s a different
23 Q. And that also could be partisan, do you 23 need?
24 think? 24 A. Because Kenwood Park exists in that area
25 A. It could be partisan. It could be racial. 25 of the county.

54 56
1 It could be, you know, they ran out of signs. 1 have 1 Q. So it’s the location of Kenwood Park?
2 no way. 2 A. 1 would say the location and who uses the
3 Q. You don't know? 3 park primarily.
4 A. 1 can't explain it. 1 just know it's - 4 Q. But can you identify any other needs of
5 you know, that certain signs don't appear in my 5 the minority community that are different from the
6 neighborhood and other signs do. 6 white community?
7 Q. All right. 7 A. 1 mean, other than the need to be able to
8 A. Or if certain signs are put up in other 8 vote effectively for whoever, for the candidate of
9 neighborhoods, they may be taken down. 9 their choice, that’s the greatest difference.

10 Q. Are there any needs of the minority 10 Q. Do you know if the Fayette County
11 community in Fayette County that are different from 11 Commission has the power to change its method of
12 those needs of the white residents of Fayette County? 12 election from at-large to district voting?
13 A. 1 would say by-and-large, no. But with 13 A. I'm not sure if the commissioners alone
14 respect — for instance, to Kenwood Park 1 would say 14 have that ability. 1 know that they could agree to
15 that we need the park to be addressed. Now, maybe 15 do that.
16 residents who have parks in their area might also 16 Q. Is it your understanding and if they agree
17 need those parks to be there. 1 don't know. 1 can 17 to do that, that the method will be changed, or do
18 just speak to the park that's in my neighborhood. 18 you know if they have to go through any other --
19 Q. And is the need to have Kenwood Park 19 A. 1 don't know if they have to go through
20 addressed, is that the region of the county in which 20 anything else other than that, but 1 know they can
21 the park is located more than the race of the people 21 agree to do that.
22 in the area? 22 Q. Do you currently serve on any board or
23 A. Well, 1 think they are sort of synonymous. 23 commission that’s appointed by the board of
24 Q. So are there no white individuals in your 24 commissioners in Fayette County?
25 part of the county? 25 A. No.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta Street 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 17

Aisha Abdur-Rahman_____________________________________ June 6, 2 012
57

1 Q. Have you ever applied to serve on a board
2 or commission?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Do you have any interest in serving on a
5 board or commission?
6 A. No.
7 Q. And why is that?
8 A. Because I'm retired.
9 Q. I've heard that answer before. Have you

10 reviewed the report of William Cooper, expert, filed
11 in this case?
12 A. I've reviewed it, but 1 can't say I've
13 studied it.
14 Q. Have you reviewed the report that 
is  Richard Engstrom filed in this case?
16 A. I've reviewed it, but again, 1 can’t say
17 I've studied it.
18 Q. One of the comments made by one of your
19 experts is that people who live in Tyrone and 
2 0 Fayetteville share the same political interests.
21  What are those interests?
22 A. 1 think the primary one is to be able to,
23 you know, get somebody to represent them that they
24 want to represent them, and to have a system that
25 allows that to happen.

59
1 A. No, 1 don’t know really. I'm not really
2 familiar with the churches around here at all.
3 Q. No problem. One of the other things your
4 expert said is that people who live in Tyrone are
5 members of the same civic organizations as people in
6 Fayetteville. Do you know what organizations those
7 are?
8 A. Well, I'm a member of the Fayette
9 Democratic Women, and 1 know that the organization

10 has many women from Tyrone, as well as from
11 Fayetteville, the city, and Fayette County.
12 Q. Okay. Any other organizations that come
13 to mind?
14 A. I'm not — well, the NAACP, in which I’m
15 also a member of. And those are the only two
16 organizations that I'm a member of.
17 Q. One of the other things your expert says
18 is that people who live in Tyrone attend the same
19 schools as people in Fayette. 1 know you don't have 
2 o children in the school system, but do you know what
21 schools those would be?
22 A. Well, my experiences in the — in my
23 community, the homeowners association has always
24 asked me to be responsible for getting the sign
25 posted at the entranceway of the subdivision. It’s

58
1 Q. Okay. Any others that come to mind?
2 A. Political interests?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. Not that specifically come to mind.
5 Q. 1 should have asked this earlier, but what
6 would you define as the northern part of Fayette
7 County?
8 A. 1 would say, well, if you start at
9 Highway 85 and go north, the breadth of it would

10 be — well, let me think because I'm not real
1 1  familiar with the streets and everything. Let me
12 think of 85 if you went north.
13 Well, pretty much up straight, you know, a
14 path straight north from 85 up to where 1 live, which
15 is obviously where Evander Holyfield lives. 1 mean,
16 it would take you out to, you know, all the way over
17 to Tyrone. It would take you around that whole area.
18 Q. Okay. One of the things your expert says
19 as well is that people who live in Tyrone attend the
2 0 same churches as people in Fayetteville. Do you know
21 what any of those churches might be?
22 A. Well, 1 don't attend churches. I'm
23 Muslim.
24 Q. And 1 was just asking if you know of any
25 churches that people attend in the same area?

60
1 sort of a tradition here where they sort of post the
2 names of all the graduating seniors.
3 And, you know, it's a congratulatory
4 poster, and 1 -- they’ve always asked me to get that
5 poster made and, you know, hung. And I've done that
6 now for the last four years. And in the four years
7 that I've done it, every single senior that — whose
8 name has ever gone on our poster goes to Sandy Creek,
9 other than two. One went to Woodward Academy, which

10 is a private school, and the other student went to
11 Benjamin Mays, which is a school, you know, in Fulton
12 County. And the only reason they were at Benjamin
13 Mays is because they moved into our subdivision three
14 months before they graduated, and they didn’t want to
15 switch schools.
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. But other than that, across the board, you
18 know, everybody goes to Sandy Creek from Tyrone and
19 from north Fayette as far as 1 know.
20 Q. And do you know if people who live in
21 Fayetteville also go to Sandy Creek, or do they go to
22 a different high school?
23 A. Well, 1 don't know.
24 Q. 1 know we’ve talked a little bit already
25 about Kenwood Park. When was the last time you went

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 17

Aisha Abdur- Rahman ____________________  June 6, 2 012
61 63

i  to Kenwood Park? i  Q. Do you remember when you first saw that

2 A. Last week. 2 plan?

3 Q. Okay. What condition was it in? 3 A. Adate.no. 1 couldn't tell you.

4 A. 1 always call it the "dust bowl." 4 Q. Okay. Does District 5 on that plan

5 Q. The dust bowl? 5 include everything you would consider north of

6 A. Yeah. 6 Fayette County?

7 Q. What do you mean by that? 7 A. Well, I'd actually make it bigger, but

8 A. 1 mean, you know, the grass is missing in 8 certainly everything in here is north.

9 spots, and, you know, the volleyball court, which 1 9 Q. Okay.
10 don't even know why they put one there. The sand lot 10 A. If 1 had to draw it, 1 would make it

1 1  that they put there is in deplorable condition. And l i  bigger.

12 the pavilion, you know, our neighborhood homeowners 12 Q. Does that include the portion down -  the

13 association was having a meeting there. So, you 13 pink portion down there at the south part of

14 know, we had one pavilion, and there was 1 think only 14 Fayetteville? Would you consider that north Fayette

15 maybe one or two others. So, you know, again, 1 just 15 County as well?

16 noticed that there weren't very many picnic pavilions 16 A. Now, just to be clear --

17 there. 17 Q. And for the record, let me explain -

18 Q. 1 know you live off of Old National 18 A. Yeah. 1 don't know how -

19 Highway. If you need to shop for groceries or shop 19 Q. Let me just do it this way. The pink

2 o for just general household items, where do you 2 0 portion between Fayetteville East and Jeff Davis

21 generally go for that? 21 around Fayette County on Exhibit 4, do you consider

22 A. Probably, 1 would go say 50 percent Costco 22 that to be north Fayette as well?

23 and 50 percent maybe -- well, maybe 25 percent Publix 23 A. Yes, 1 would say so.

24 in Fayetteville and maybe 25 percent Kroger in 24 Q. Do you know how many parks Fayette County

2 5 Fayetteville. 25 operates within the county?

62 64
l  Q. Okay. And are those both along i  A. 1 know of two, but that's it.
2 Georgia 85? 2 Q, Okay. And is Kenwood Park one of those
3 A. Publix and Kroger are. Costco is in 3 parks?
4 Morrow, actually. 4 A. Yes.
5 Q. In Morrow, okay. Yeah. So Costco is 5 Q. Do you know if spending for parks has been
6 outside the county? 6 frozen or reduced in light of the economy?
7 A. Right. 7 A. 1 don't know.
8 G. I’m trying to encourage my wife to go to 8 Q. Do you know anything about the specific
9 Costco -- 9 funding for Kenwood Park currently?

10 A. Yes. 10 A. No, 1 don't.
l i  Q. - - as much as we can. Buy in bulk. n  Q. Are you familiar with the 2006 special
12 A. Good place. 12 election when Commissioner Morgan was elected?
13 Q. Absolutely. Do you know what the term 13 A. And when you say "do 1 know," do 1 know
14 "community of interest" means? 14 that it happened or do 1 -
15 A. 1 mean, 1 could guess at it. i s  Q. Do you remember anything about the
16 Q. Well, if you have a definition, you can 16 election?
17 share it with me. 1 don't want you to wildly 17 A. Other than that it was held, nothing in
1 8 speculate about what it might be. 18 particular.
19 A. Well, 1 have to speculate. 19 Q. Okay. So you don't know who ran or what
20 Q. Okay. Then we won't go there. No 2 0 the result was beyond the fact that Commissioner
21 problem. Let me hand what we've previously marked as 21 Horgan was elected?
22 Exhibit 4 and ask if you recognize this as the 22 A. 1 don't recall who else ran, no.
2 3 illustrative plan drawn by William Cooper in this 2 3 Q. I'm going to give you a list of names real
24 litigation? Have you seen that plan before? 24 quick and just ask if any of these ring a bell for
2 5 A. Yes. 25 you.

□ E P O S

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 16 of 17

Aisha Abdur- Rahman___________________  June 6, 2 012
65 67

l  A, Okay. l  remember from where or when.
2 Q.  Do you know who Frank Oakley is? 2 Q. Okay. And Laura Burgess is the last one 1
3 A. No. 3 have?
4 Q. If it sounds familiar, let me know. We 4 A. Yes. She ran for the school board.
5 can come back to it, so . . . 5 Q. And was she successful?
6 No? 6 A. No.
7 A. Frank Oakley doesn't sound familiar. 7 Q. Have you ever met Ms. Burgess?
8 Q. Okay. How about David Simmons? 8 A. Yes.
9 A. Well, he sounds familiar. 9 Q. And where was that?

10 Q. Okay. Do you remember in what context? 10 A. Fayette Democratic Women’s meeting.
l l  A. 1 just remember him as a candidate. l l  Q. Okay. And you don't live in Northbridge
12 Q. And a candidate for county commissioner or 12 [sic] or Westbridge subdivision, do you?
13 school board? 13 A. Northridge?
14 A. 1 believe he ran for commissioner. 14 Q. Northridge.
15 Q. Okay. Do you remember when? 15 A. 1 live in Northridge.
16 A. No. 16 Q. You live in Northridge. Okay. Have you
17 Q, And was he ultimately successful - 17 ever had any issues -- well, 1 know you mentioned
18 A. No. 18 previously you had issues with the subdivision roads.
19 Q. - - do you know? 19 Was it specifically a specific problem with the
2 0 A. Not that 1 know of. 20 roads? Potholes?
21 Q. Okay. Do you know who Emory Wilkerson is? 21 A. Uneven surfaces I'd have to say. Poor
2 2 A. 1 know the name, but 1 don't know who he 22 conditions of the road.
2 3 is. 1 don't specifically remember right now who he 23 Q. And you haven't contacted the commission
24 is. 24 in the last three years about that issue, correct?
25 Q. Do you know who Wendy Felton is? 25 A. No.

6 6 68
l  A. No, 1 don’t know who that is. l  Q. Do you have an opinion about whether
2 Q. How about Malcolm Hughes? 2 requiring candidates to live in a particular district
3 A. I’ve heard his name. 3 impairs black electoral success in board of
4 Q. Okay. Do you remember in what connection? 4 commissioner elections apart from the issue of
5 A. 1 know he ran for an office. 1 can't 5 at-large voting?
6 remember specifically when or what. 6 A. That's a lot you just said.
7 Q. And have you ever met Mr. Hughes to your 7 Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way: Apart from
8 knowledge? 8 the issue of at-large voting, do you have an opinion
9 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 about whether it's a good idea to require a candidate

10 Q. Do you know the name Charles Rousseau? 10 to live in a particular district to run for office?
13 A. No. l l  A. 1 think that's a good idea.
12 Q. How about Rod Mack? 12 Q. Okay. Do you think that staggered terms
13 A. 1 remember his name, but 1 don't 13 for the board of commissioners are a good idea where
14 specifically remember in what context. 14 the whole commission doesn't come up every four
15 Q. Do you know the name Paula Snowden? 15 years?
16 A. No. 16 A. 1 believe that's a good idea.
17 Q. How about Carolyn Fludd? 17 Q. Okay. I'm just going through my notes.
18 A. Well, I've met her. 18 I'm almost — 1 think 1 actually may be finished, so
19 Q. Okay. Where did you meet her? 19 let me make sure. 1 was going too far, and 1 was
20 A. At a Fayette Democratic Women's meeting. 20 going into somebody else’s deposition.
21 Q. Do you know if she ever ran for office in 21 Just going back to the racial polarization
22 Fayette County? 22 issue for just one moment, is it correct to say that
23 A. 1 don't know. 2 3 your belief that racial polarization in voting occurs
24 Q. Do you know the name Faith Hardnett? 24 in Fayette County is based on the fact that no
25 A. 1 remember her name, but again, 1 don't 25 African-American has been elected in the county; is

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-3 Filed 10/04/12 Page 17 of 17

Aisha Abdur- R a h m a n __________________ ____________ June 6, 2 012
77 7 9

1 discouraged from running for office because of the 1 sheriff race with Mr. Simmons and his loss to the

2 sense that they cannot win under an at-large 2 current sheriff in the county. Do you recall that?

3 election? 3 A. Uh-huh, I remember that

4 A. Yes, I've heard African-Americans say 4 Q. Okay. And 1 believe you said earlier that

5 that. 5 Mr. Simmons lost a primary election, is that right,

6 Q. You've heard potential African-American 6 because he was going against a Republican?

7 candidates say that? 7 A. No. You asked me, and 1 wasn't sure

8 A. Yes. 8 whether it was a primary or a general. Well,

9 Q. Earlier, Mr. Tyson asked you if it was a 9 ultimately, he was not the sheriff. So 1 might

10 lack of education that keeps African-Americans from 10 assume it was the general election, but 1 don't know

11 participating in county politics, 1 think was his 11 if he was disqualified at the primary level or not.

12 question. Would you say it was a lack of education 12 Q. And do you remember whether he ran against

13 that keeps African-Americans from participating in 13 another Republican or not?

14 Fayette County politics as potential candidates? 14 MR. HAYGOOD: 1 think she answered.

15 A. No, 1 wouldn't say that. 15 MR. TYSON: I don't know if she's answered

16 Q. You would say -  you said previously that 16 that or not.

17 it's a sense they just can’t win under the current 17 THE WITNESS: 1 think 1 have, i think the

18 method of election? 18 sheriff is a Republican,

19 MR. TYSON: I'll object to that as 19 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) Okay If a candidate is

20 leading. 20 running in a primary election, is it true that

21 THE WITNESS: That's right. 21 Democrats -- if they are running in a Republican

22 Q. (By Mr. Haygood) You can answer. 22 primary, is it true that Democrats are not voting in

23 A. That's what 1 would say, that they don’t 23 that primary election?

24 run because they don’t feel they could win with the 24 A. As far as 1 know, the Republicans run

25 system in place. 25 against other Republicans, and Democrats run against

78 80
1 Q. Earlier, Mr. Tyson asked you, 1 other Democrats.
2 Ms. Abdur-Rahman, if it was partisan polarization 2 Q. If there -- not everyone in the county
3 over racial polarization that caused 3 votes in primary elections, correct?
4 African-Americans not to win under the at-large 4 A. Not everybody in the county votes in any
5 method of election. Is it your view that it’s 5 election. Some people don't vote
6 actually race and not partisanship that prevents 6 Q. The mosque you attend in Fayetteville, is

7 African-Americans from running? 7 it the only mosque in Fayette County?
8 MR. TYSON: Object to that as leading, but 8 A. As far as 1 know, the only mosque in
9_ you can answer. 9 Fayette County. It’s not the only one near me, but

10 THE WITNESS: 1 think it’s race. 10 it's the only one in this county.
11 Q. (By Mr. Haygood) And your example of that 11 Q. Mr. Haygood asked you about the sentiment
12 is the sheriffs race? 12 that "race trumps experience" in Fayette County. Is
13 A. That's -- that's --1 mean, there have 13 there anything other than the sheriffs election that

14 been African-Americans who are Republicans who have 14 shows you or that you rely on for the statement that
15 run for office. They have not been elected. There 15 "race trumps experience"?
16 have been African-Americans who were Democrats who 16 A. That's the one that sticks out in my mind
17 have run for office. They have not been elected. So 17 the most.
18 the common factor between those two people is that IS Q. But sitting here today, you can’t think of
19 they're black. Uh-huh. 19 another example; is that right?
20 MR. HAYGOOD: That's all 1 have. 20 A. 1 can't --1 mean, 1 can't specifically
21 MR. TYSON: Okay. 21 think of another example right this minute.
22 FURTHER EXAMINATION 22 Q. Is it correct to say that you were not
23 BY-MR. TYSON: 1 23 sure whether it's racial polarization in voting or
24 Q. 1 just have a couple more questions. 1 24 political polarization in voting in Fayette County?
25 Mr. Haygood was asking you about the race, the [ 25 MR. HAYGOOD: That doesn't reflect what

To!! Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 9

EXHIBIT B

Cited Excerpts of Deposition of 
Ali Abdur-Rahman



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 9

All A b d u r - R a h m a n ________________________________ June 6, 2012
1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE 
OF THE NAACP; FAYETTE
COUNTY BRANCH NAACP; HENRY CIVIL ACTION 
ADAMS; TERENCE CLARK; FILE NO.
ALICE JONES, JOHN E. 3:11-CV-00123-TCB
JONES; DAN LOWRY; ALI
ABDUR-RAHMAN; AISHA
ABDUR-RAHMAN; LELIA
RICHARDSON; ELVERTA
WILLIAMS; and BONNIE LEE
WRIGHT,

Plaintiffs, 
vs.

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al. ,

Defendants.

DEPOSITION OF 

ALI ABDUR-RAHMAN 

3:47 p .m .

June 6, 2012
140 Stonewall Avenue, West 

Fayetteville, Georgia

Susan M. Pitts, CCR-B-1806, RPR

3
1 INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS
2 Examination Page
3 Examination by Mr. Tyson 5
4 Examination by Ms. Aden 49
5 Further Examination by Mr. Tyson 51
6 
7

INDEX TO EXHIBITS
9

Exhibit Description Page
10
11 1 Verification 44
12 1A P la in tiffs 'R esponses to Defendant

Fayette County Board of Commissioners'
13 First interrogatories to Plaintiffs 44
14 2 Complaint 28 
is 3 P la in tiffs 'R esponses to Defendant

Fayette County Board ot
1 6  Commissioners' First Request for 

Production of Documents 4
17

4 Map 48
18
19
20  (Original Exhibits 1 through 4 have been 

attached to the original transcript.)
21 
22
23
24
25

2
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
2 On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
3 LDF

LEAH C. ADEN, ESQ.
4 99 Hudson Street, Suite 1600 

New York, New York 10013
5 (212)965-2235 

(212)226-7592 (Facsimile)
6 laden@naacpldf.org
7

On behalf of the Defendants, Fayette County Board of
8 Commissioners; Herb Frady, Chairperson, in his 

official capacity; Robert Horgan, Vice-Chairperson,
9 in his official capacity; Lee Hearn, Commissioner, in 

his official capacity; Steve Brown, Commissioner, in
10 his official capacity; and Allen McCarty,

Commissioner, in his official capacity; Fayette
11 County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; Tom 

Sawyer, Department Head, in his official capacity:
12

STRICKLAND, BROCKINGTON, LEWIS, LLP
13 ANNE W. LEWIS, ESQ.

BRYAN P. TYSON, ESQ.
14 Midtown Proscenium, Suite 2200 

1170 Peachtree Street, N.E.
15 Atlanta, Georgia 30309-7200 

(678) 347-2203
1 6  (678) 347-2210 (Facsimile) 

awl@sbllaw.net
17 bpt@sbllaw.net
18
19
20 
21
22
23
24
25

4
1 DEPOSITION OF ALI ABDUR-RAHMAN
2 June 6, 2012
3 (Reporter disclosure made pursuant to
4 Article 8.B. of the Rules and Regulations of the
5 Board of Court Reporting of the Judicial Council
6 of Georgia.)
7 (Exhibit 1A through 4 were marked for
8 identification.)
9 MR. TYSON: This will be the deposition of

1 0  Ali Abdur-Rahman taken by the defendants Fayette
11 County Board of Commissioners, Herb Frady,
1 2  Robert Horgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown, Allen
13 McCarty, Fayette County Board of Elections and
14 Voter Registration and Tom Sawyer, which
15 collectively referred to in this litigation as
16 the county defendants for the purposes of
17 discovery and all purposes allowed under the
1 8 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and under the
1 9 Federal Rules of Evidence.
2 0 All objections, except those going to the
21 form of the question and responsiveness of the
22  answer, are reserved until trial or first use of 
2 3 the deposition.
24 Is that agreeable to you, Ms. Aden?
2 5 MS. ADEN: It is. And in addition, we

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

mailto:laden@naacpldf.org
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net
http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 9

Ali Abdur-Rahman ___________________ June 6 , 2 012

1
5

request that Mr. Abdur-Rahman be allowed to read 1
7

A. Since 2005.

2 and sign the deposition. 2 Q. All right. And 1 meant to tell you by way

3 A ll ABDUR-RAHMAN, having been first duly 3 of — we go through some biographical questions

4 sworn was examined and testified as follows: 4 first, and then we kind of move into the case after

5 MR. TYSON: All right. 1 would just like 5 that. So before you moved to Fayette County in 2005,

6 to note for the record that the Board of 6 where did you live?

7 Education was sent the notice of this 7 A. 1 lived in Fulton County for a year.

8 deposition, but is not present at the 8 Q. Okay. And were you in the city of

9 deposition. 9 Atlanta?

10 EXAMINATION 10 A. No.

11 BY-MR. TYSON: 11 Q. What part of Fulton County?

12 Q. All right. Mr. Abdur-Rahman, my name is 12 A. College Park.

13 Bryan Tyson, and we met a moment ago. We kind of 13 Q. College Park. And then where were you

14 finished our initial formalities, but 1 represent the 14 before College Park?

15 Fayette Board of Commissioners and the Board of 15 A. Los Angeles, California.

16 Elections and Voter Registration, along with Anne 16 Q. And how long were you in Los Angeles?

17 Lewis, also from our firm. 17 A. Since '96.

18 And the purpose of the deposition today is 18 Q. Okay. Basically, '96 to 2004

19 just to get some information about your lawsuit 19 approximately?

20 against Fayette County. My goal is not to try to 20 A. Correct.

21 trick you or ask you trick questions or confuse you. 21 Q. And then where did you live before you

22 1 have a tendency sometimes to ask questions that 22 lived in Los Angeles?

23 don't make sense, or 1 get to the end of a very long 23 A. New York -  Brooklyn, New York.

24 question, and you have no idea what I'm asking. If 24 Q. And how long did you live in Brooklyn?

25 that happens, just tell me, and I'll rephrase the 25 A. From 1989 to '96 when 1 moved to Los

1
6

question. 1
8

Angeles.
2 A. Okay. 2 Q. All right. We’ll keep stepping back in
3 Q. For the court reporter's sake, it's best 3 time. Where were you before you were in Brooklyn?
4 if you speak up and speak clearly, and also she can't 4 A. Columbus, Ohio.
5 record a head nod or "uh-huh” or "huh-uh" on the 5 Q. Okay.
6 transcript, so saying "yes" or "no" is best. 6 A. From '69 until '89.
7 A. Okay. 7 Q. All right. And how about before that?
8 Q. And 1 know we often have this tendency to 8 A. Cleveland, Ohio.
9 talk over each other in conversation, but it will 9 Q. Okay. And were you born in Cleveland?

10 make her life much easier if 1 can finish my 10 A. Born in Cleveland.
11 question, and then you can answer; and I’ll try to do 11 Q. Okay. Have you ever given your deposition
12 the same so that we can have the transcript be clean 12 in a case before?
13 along the way. 13 A. Yes.
14 If you need a break at any point, just let 14 Q. Can you tell me about those cases? How
15 me know, but I'll ask that you answer the last 15 many times?
16 question 1 asked before we take a break. So take as 16 A. 1 worked for the City of New York, so 1
17 many breaks as you need along the way. 17 was deposed every time 1 had to go to court. So 1
18 So with that, can you go ahead and state 18 couldn't tell you how many times it was.
19 your full name for the record. 19 Q. Okay.
20 A. My name is Ali Abdur-Rahman. 20 A. 1 couldn't remember.
21 Q. And what is your address? 21 Q. And what was your position with the City
22 A. 110 Benson Circle, Fayetteville, Georgia 22 of New York?
23 30214. 23 A. 1 was a supervisor in buildings and
24 Q. Okay. And how long have you lived in 24 safety.
25 Fayette County? 25 Q. And so were the depositions that you gave

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresoiutions.com

http://www.esquiresoiutions.com


Case 3 :ll-ev-00123-TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 9

Ali Abdur - Rahman _____________________June 6, 2 012
25 27

l  A 1 couldn't tell you. l  A. Really not having a say on what goes on in
2 Q. Okay. Do you remember approximately when 2 their area where they live.
3 you started asking for it? 3 Q. Now, how would you define, first let's say
4 A. We probably had been in the house two or 4 northern Fayette County? What area of the county is
5 three years when the tornados came through the first 5 that to you?
6 time. So that would've been three — almost four 6 A. Describe it? It's just north end.
7 years ago. 7 Q. North end? North of 54, north of
8 Q. Okay. So 1 guess that would have been 8 Fayetteville, like, 1 mean is there a county line?
9 '08 - 9 A. Well, 1 live on Old National.

10 A. Yeah. 10 Q. Okay.
l i  Q. — approximately? And so it wasn't l l  A. And so 1 just -  that's the furthest 1
12 installed until just last year, or was that when — 12 think you can go on the north end of Fayetteville.
13 A. The end of year before last or the first 13 So that's how 1 look at it.
14 part of last year, if I'm not mistaken. 1 could be 14 Q. Okay.
is  wrong on those dates. Since I'm retired, dates don't 15 A. You know, 1 know people that live in the
16 mean a whole lot to me or time doesn't, so . . . 16 city. 1 know people that live on the fringe like at
17 Q. That’s a good thing. 17 almost at the Clayton County line, you know, that we
18 A. Yeah, it is. 18 associate with and different other areas that are
19 Q. Definitely. So were there any other 19 further up, east.
20 motivations? We talked about the storm siren issue. 20 Q. So beyond those, 1 guess, general areas,
2 1 We talked about the transportation between high 21 kind of on the borders of the county on the north
22 schools issue. Any other motivation that made you 22 end, border of Fulton, border of Clayton?
23 want to file this lawsuit? 23 A. Yeah.
24 A. No. Just, you know, get the districts 24 Q. That’s generally what you would call the
25 together where we can, you know, have more of a say 2 5 northern part of the county?

26 28
l  on who is in the district, and what district, even l  A. Right.
2 though 1 don't have any school-age children, you 2 Q. Okay. Do you know if you have a fee
3 know, where they go to school. 1 attend the center 3 contract with your lawyers in this case?
4 up here, Fayetteville, right by the courthouse. And 4 A. Fee contract? I'm not sure 1 understand
5 a lot of people, you know, from all over the county 5 what that means.
6 come here, and we, you know, play cards, and we 6 Q. All right. If you don't know, that's
7 socialize. 7 totally fine.
8 So 1 know a lot of people from the various 8 A. Okay.
9 areas, but, you know, we all seem to end up in the 9 Q. Let me hand you what I'm going to mark as

10 same place at the same meetings, attend the same 10 Exhibit 2 for consistency sake, and that should be a
l l  functions and things like that. So, you know, I'm 11 copy of the complaint that was -  that you filed on
12 close with a lot of those people that live in the 12 this case.
13 other areas. 1 mean, we just do a lot of things 13 A. Uh-huh.
14 together. 14 Q. Have you ever seen this document before?
15 Q. Is it accurate to say that 15 A. 1 think so, yes.
16 African-American voters in Fayette County have a lot 16 Q. Feel free to take a look at it if you want
17 of the same issues that the white voters have in 17 to.
18 Fayette County? 18 A. Yes.
19 A. 1 would say the ones 1 --again, I'm 19 Q. Okay. And do you remember when you first
20 active. 1 bowl a lot, so 1 talk with a lot of people 20 read this document or have you — I'm sorry. I'm
21 in the bowling league, and the complaints are 21 going to ask you first have you ever read the
22 basically the same. 22 document?
2 3 Q. And are the complaints based primarily on 23 A. I've read the document, but it's been some
24 the part of the county someone lives in, is that the 24 time.
25 primary motivator, versus their race? 25 Q. Do you remember when you first read it?

i-1 °

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 9

A l i  Abdur-Rahman June 6, 2012
29 31

i  A. No, 1 don't. i  very -  it was recent in the last five years.

2 Q. Do you know if it was before the case was 2 Q. And do you know specifically if white

3 filed? 3 voters voted for the white candidate, and black

4 A. 1 can't — 1 can’t honestly -- can’t 4 voters voted for the black candidate?

s answer that. 5 A. 1 would say so.

6 Q. Okay. That's totally fine. Flave you ever 6 Q. And what's that based on?

7 been prohibited from registering to vote based on 7 A. The fact that he didn't win the election

8 your race? 8 or didn't do well in the election.

9 A. No. 9 Q. Beyond this sheriffs race, are there

1 0  Q. Have you ever been prohibited from l  o other examples you can think of as racial

n  participating in the political process because of l l  polarization occurring in Fayette County?

1 2  your race? 1 2  A. Politically, you mean?

13 A. No. 13 Q. Yes, in elections. Sorry.

14 Q. Have you ever heard the term "racially 14 A. Notreally.no.

is  polarized voting”? 15 Q. Do you know if Hispanic voters in Fayette

1 6  A. Yes. 16 County tend to favor one race over another?

17 Q. What does that mean to you? 17 A. Don't know. Couldn't answer that.

1 8  A. That means that someone — the voting is 18 Q. Based on your conversations and experience

19 going in one direction. One group votes one way as a 19 and meeting people in the county, is it your opinion

20  group. 2 0 that black voters in Fayette County vote for

2 1  Q. Would it be accurate to say that the 2 1  Democratic candidates primarily?

22  whites are generally voting for a white candidate, 22  A. Primarily? 1 think so.

2 3 and the African-Americans are voting for an 23 Q. Have you ever looked at what the turnout

24 African-American candidate? 24 rate is for African-American voters in Fayette

2 5 A. Not necessarily, no. 2 5 County?

30 32
i  Q. Okay. Would that meet your definition of l  A. 1 looked at a mid-term election, and the
2 "racially polarized voting"? 2 percentage was -- was — well, the turnout in general
3 A. Yeah, 1 think so. 3 was not good, whites and blacks. It was about the
4 Q. Okay. Do you have any personal knowledge 4- same.
5 about that type of voting occurring in Fayette 5 Q. So the election you reviewed -- a mid-term
6 County, that the races vote for different candidates? 6 election, I'm assuming that would have been 2010 or
7 A. There was an election for sheriff, and 1 7 2006?
8 can’t remember if it was one of the city or county 8 A. 2010.
9 sheriffs. But the guy -- looking at the two 9 Q. 2010.. And in that election, white voters

1 0  different people that were running, one guy was a 10 and black voters were turning out about the same
l l  high school graduate, no military background, got l l  level?
1 2  elected as sheriff. 1 2  A. Right.
1 3  And here’s a guy that had -- was a sheriff 13 Q. Have you reviewed any other elections?
1 4  in some other city, chief of police in some other 14 A. No.
15 city, military background, FBI training, and he 15 Q. Now, are you aware that Fayette County
1 6  didn't get -  he didn’t get the position. And it 1 6  uses a majority vote requirement in its elections
17 made no sense. Now, the guy was — the guy with all 17 where you have to get 50 percent plus 1 to win?
1 8  the background and education -- college educated as 1 8  A. Yes.
19 well didn't get the vote. He was black. The guy 19 Q. And do you think that's a discriminatory
2 0 with the high school diploma got the job, and he was 2 0 requirement?
2 1  white. Now, to me that's -  that's ridiculous, and 2 1  A. 1 don't think so.
22  that’s "racially polarized voting." 22 Q. Are you familiar with the term
23 Q. Do you remember what year or what the 23 "anti-single shot" provision?
24 names of the candidates were? 24 A. Never heard of that.
25 A. 1 don't recall. 1 don't recall. It's 25 Q. Okay. Does Fayette County use any voting

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3:ll-cv~00123-TCB Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 9

All Abdur-Rahman________________________________________June 6, 2 012
33 3 5

l  p ra c tic e  o r p ro ce d u re  th a t d is c r im in a te s  a g a in s t a l  sh e riff . T h e re  w a s  a n o th e r  o n e , b u t 1 c o u ld n 't te ll

2 m in o r ity  g ro u p ? 2 y o u  e x a c t ly  w h e n  it w a s .

3 A . N o t th a t I’m  a w a re  o f. 3 Q . O ka y . A n d  y o u  sa id  th e  la s t m id te rm , w a s

4 Q . A n d  yo u  d o n 't v o te  fo r  c a n d id a te s  o n  a 4 th a t th e  2 0 1 0  e le c tio n  —

5 s la te  in  F a y e tte  C o u n ty , d o  yo u ? 5 A . Y es.

6  A . No. 6 Q . — yo u  lo o k e d  a t?

7 Q . W e  ta lk e d  a b o u t y o u  m o v in g  to  F a ye tte 7 A . Y e s .

8 C o u n ty  a s  an  a d u lt. D o  yo u  k n o w  if m o s t o f th e 8 Q . D o  yo u  re m e m b e r  w h o  th e  c a n d id a te s  w e re  in

9 A fr ic a n -A m e ric a n s  o r  d o  yo u  h a ve  a n y  p e rso n a l 9 th a t e le c tio n ?

10 k n o w le d g e  if m o s t o f th e  A fr ic a n -A m e ric a n s  w h o 10 A . N o, 1 don 't.

i i  c u rre n tly  live  in F a ye tte  C o u n ty  m o ved  to  th e  co u n ty l l  Q . D o  you  re m e m b e r w h a t th e  --  w h a t s ta te m e n t

12 a fte r  th e y  w e re  a d u lts  o r  w h e th e r  th e y  g re w  up  h e re ? 12 im p lie d  th a t yo u  s h o u ld  v o te  fo r  a c a n d id a te  b e c a u s e

13 A . W e ll, m y  a ge  g ro u p , I w o u ld  h a ve  to  sa y 13 o f th e ir  ra ce ?

14 th e y  a ll m o ved  h e re  b e c a u s e  m o s t o f th e  p e o p le  1 hang 14 A . N o , 1 d o n 't re ca ll.

15  o u t w ith  a re  re tire d , so  . . . 15  Q . A re  th e re  a n y  o th e r e le c tio n s  b e s id e s  th is

16 Q . A n d  base d  o n  y o u r  c o n v e rs a tio n s  w ith  o th e r 16 2 0 1 0  m id te rm  a n d  th e  s h e r if fs  ra ce  th a t h a ve

1 7  A fr ic a n -A m e ric a n s  in th e  c o u n ty , d o  th e y  — h a ve  th e y 17 in v o lv e d  ra c ia l a p p e a ls  th a t you  k n o w  o f?

18 g iv e n  yo u  re a s o n s  w h y  th e y  m o ve d  to  F a ye tte  C o u n ty? 18 A . N o t th a t 1 k n o w  o f, no.

1 9  A . Y o u  kn o w  w e  n e v e r had  th a t c o n v e rs a tio n . 19  Q . D o  yo u  k n o w  h o w  m a n y  A fr ic a n -A m e r ic a n s

20 Q . O ka y . D o  you  k n o w  if th e re  is a n y  rac ia l 2 0  h a v e  run  fo r  o ffic e  in F a y e tte  C o u n ty  fo r  a n y

21 d is c r im in a tio n  in th e  e d u c a tio n a l s y s te m  o f F a ye tte 21 p o s itio n ?

22 C o u n ty ?  A n d  1 kn o w  yo u  d o n 't h a ve  sch o o l-a g e 22 A . 1 c o u ld n 't te ll y o u  th e  n u m b e r.

23  c h ild re n , so  you  m ig h t n o t h a v e  a n y  p e rs o n a l 23 Q . S in c e  yo u  m o v e d  h e re  in  2 0 0 5 , h a v e  y o u  had

24  k n o w le d g e  a b o u t tha t. 24  th e  o p p o rtu n ity  to  v o te  fo r  10 o r  m o re ?

2 5  A . Y e a h , 1 d o n 't h a v e  a n y  p e rso n a l kn o w le d g e . 2 5 A . O h , no. N o.

3 4 3 6

i  Q . O k a y . D o e s  a  la c k  o f  e d u c a t io n  k e e p l  Q . S o  y o u  a ls o  d o n 't k n o w  h o w  m a n y

2 A fr ic a n -A m e r ic a n s  fro m  p a r t ic ip a t in g  in  F a y e tte 2 A fr ic a n -A m e ric a n s  h a v e  b e e n  e le c te d  to  p u b lic  o ffic e

3 C o u n ty  p o lit ic s ? 3 in F a y e tte  C o u n ty ?

4 A . 1 c o u ld n 't  a n s w e r  th a t. 1 d o n 't  k n o w . 4 A . 1 d o n 't k n o w  th a t.

5 Q . D o  y o u  k n o w  i f  th e re  is  a n y  ra c ia l 5 Q. D o  yo u  k n o w  R e p re s e n ta t iv e  V irg il F lu d d ?

6 d is c r im in a t io n  in  e m p lo y m e n t o p p o r tu n it ie s  in F a y e tte 6 A . I’v e  s e e n  h im .

7 C o u n ty  fo r  A fr ic a n -A m e r ic a n s ? 7 Q . D o  yo u  k n o w  if h e  live s  in F a y e tte  C o u n ty

8 A . D o n 't kn o w . 8 o r  not?

9 Q . A n d  so  y o u  d o n 't  k n o w  if th a t w o u ld  ke e p 9 A . 1 d o n 't k n o w .

10 a n y b o d y  fro m  p a r t ic ip a tin g  in  F a y e tte  C o u n ty 10 Q . O k a y . A re  th e re  a n y  p a rt ic u la r  n e e d s  th a t

l l  p o lit ic s ? l l  th e  m in o r ity  c o m m u n ity  in F a y e tte  C o u n ty  h a s  th a t a re

12 A . C o rre c t. 12 d if fe re n t th a n  th o s e  o f  w h ite  re s id e n ts  o f F a y e tte

13 Q . If  1 s a id  a  p o lit ic a l c a m p a ig n  w a s 13  C o u n ty?

14 c h a ra c te r iz e d  b y  " ra c ia l a p p e a ls ,"  w o u ld  th a t m e a n 14 A . 1 d o n 't th in k  th e  n e e d s  a re  a n y  d iffe re n t.

15  a n y th in g  to  y o u ? 15  1 th in k  w e  a ll h a v e  th e  s a m e  nee d s .

16 A . W e ll, c o m m e rc ia ls  o r  w h a te v e r  a re  ta rg e te d 16 Q . D o  yo u  k n o w  if th e  F a y e tte  C o u n ty

17  a t o n e  s p e c if ic  g ro u p  o r  a n o th e r  g ro u p . 17  C o m m is s io n  h a s  th e  p o w e r to  c h a n g e  its  m e th o d  o f

18 Q . H a v e  y o u  e v e r  w itn e s s e d  a c a m p a ig n  in 1 8  e le c tio n  fro m  a t- la rg e  to  d is tr ic t v o tin g  by  its e lf

1 9  F a y e tte  C o u n ty  w h e re  a c a n d id a te  — w h e re  th e 1 9  o r  d o e s  it n e e d  s o m e  o th e r g o v e rn m e n t b o d y  to  d o

2 o im p lic a t io n  o f  a m e s s a g e  w a s  to  v o te  fo r  a c a n d id a te 20 th a t?

21 b e c a u s e  th a t c a n d id a te  w a s  o f  a p a r t ic u la r  ra c e ? 21 A . 1 th in k  th e y  c a n  d o  it o n  th e ir  ow n .

2 2  A . Y e s . 22 Q . D o  you  c u rre n tly  se rv e  o n  a b o a rd  o r  a

2 3 Q . W h a t e le c tio n  is th a t? 23 co m m is s io n  th a t's  a p p o in te d  by  th e  F a y e tte  C o u n ty

24 A . T h e  la s t -  th e  la s t e le c tio n , th e  la s t 24  B o a rd  o f C o m m is s io n e rs ?

2 5 m id te rm s , a n d  th e  o n e  1 w a s  te llin g  y o u  a b o u t th e 2 5  A . No.

DtPO:: .

Toll Free: 800 .2 1 1 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 9

All Abdur-Rahman _____________________ ________ J une  6,  2 012
41 4 3

1 people from Fayetteville arid Tyrone that both attend 1 condition; is it in good shape?

2 that church? 2 A. Yeah, it's in good shape.

3 A. Yeah. 3 Q. How often do you go to Kenwood Park?

4 Q. And what name -  what's the name of that 4 A. Before 1 injured my knee, 1 was there

R church? 5 every morning walking.

6 A. 1 don't know the name of the church. It's 6 Q. And do you use the track there at the

7 off of 54 down here, by the post office - 7 park?

8 Q. Do you know of any - 8 A. That's primarily what 1 use.

9 A. -  the old post office, so . . . 9 Q. So that track is really useful for you?

10 1 don't attend churches. 1 just, you 10 A. Yeah, it is.

11 know, know people that attended the same churches. 11 Q. Do you know whether residents of Clayton

12 I’m a Muslim, so 1 go to the center here in town. 12 County also use Kenwood Park?

13 Q. Got it. 13 A. 1 am not sure. 1 think 1 may know one or

14 A. So people in Tyrone 1 see them at the 14 two people, but 1 couldn't really say.

15 mosque as well, but 1 don't go to the same church. 15 Q. Now, you said you live up on Old National

16 G. Do you know of any other churches, though, 16 Highway or off --

17 where people from Fayetteville and Tyrone attend? 17 A. Correct.

18 A. 1 know there are two different churches. 18 Q. -  of Old National Highway?

19 1 hear people talking about, you know, activities at 19 A. Correct.

20 churches, but 1 couldn't tell you the names of the 20 Q. Where do you shop primarily like when you

21 churches and where they're located. 21 go to shop for groceries o r . . .

22 Q. Okay. And is the center here in 22 A. 1 use three grocery stores. The one here

23 Fayetteville the only mosque located in Fayette 23 at the Southpoint.

24 County? 24 Q. Uh-huh.

25 A. Correct. As far as 1 know, unless there 25 A. And the two up here.

42 44

1 is another one someplace. i Q. Okay. And the "two up here" you're

2 Q. One of your experts also said that people 2 referring to -

3 who live in Tyrone are members of the same civic 3 A. Kroger and Publix. One at Pavilion and

4 organizations as people in Fayetteville, Do you know 4 the other one is -  the Kroger is not In any specific

5 what those organizations are? 5 shopping center.

6 A. 1 know the Democratic Women’s Association 6 Q. And those are up on Georgia 85; is that

7 and NAACP, and I'm not sure of any others. 7 right?

8 Q. Okay. And do you know if people that live 8 A. Correct.

9 in Tyrone attend the same schools as people in 9 Q. Do you know what the term "community of

10 Fayetteville -  their children 1 mean? 10 interest" means?
11 A. Yes. 11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. And do you know what those schools 12 Q. Okay. All right.

13 are called? 13 MR. TYSON: Go ahead and mark -  mark that

14 A. There's one school. Gee, what's the big 14 as 1.
15 sign out in front of my subdivision? What's the name 15 (Exhibits-1 was marked for

16 of that school? 1 can't remember the name of the 16 identification.)
17 school. 17 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) I'm handing you what we’ve

18 Q. If it comes to you later, that's fine. 18 marked as Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 1 A. And just first,

19 A. Okay. 19 just as far as Exhibit 1, is that the verification

20 Q. 1 know you mentioned a few minutes ago, 20 that you signed for the interrogatories in this case?

21 about Kenwood Park. We've heard several times in 21 A. It's my signature.
22 this litigation about it. Flow recently have you been 22 Q. Okay. And then directing you to

23 to Kenwood Park? 23 Exhibit 1A there, can you review that document and
24 A. 1 was there last weekend. 24 see if those are the responses that your counsel

25 Q. And what would you say is its current 25 provided to us in this litigation?

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta Street 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 : ll-cv-0012 3 -TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 9

Ali Abdur-Rahman ______________________________________ June 6, 2 012
45 47

1 A. It appears to be, yes. l Q. Okay. Do you live in -  your subdivision
2 Q. Okay. Did you assist in any way in 2 isn't Northbridge [sic] or Westbridge, is it?
3 helping provide answers for these responses? 3 A. No.
4 A. No. 4 Q. Do you have an opinion about whether
5 Q. Okay. Did you provide any documents to 5 requiring candidates to live in a particular district
6 your attorneys related to this case? 6 impairs black electoral success in board of
7 A. No. 7 commissioner elections?
8 Q. Okay. 8 A. Yes, 1 do.
9 MS. ADEN: Excuse me, Bryan. 9 Q. And what is that?

10 MR. TYSON: Sure. 10 A. If a candidate, you know, of your choice,
11 MS. ADEN: Do you have another copy of 11 you don't have the ability to vote them in. You
12 this so - 12 know, it's -- so you'd have to go with what the
13 MR. TYSON: Oh, I'm sorry. Sure do. 13 at-large community says.
14 MS. ADEN: Thank you. 14 Q. Okay. And 1 wasn't referring specifically
15 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) 1 want to read you a list 15 to district voting, but rather just to requiring
16 o f names and see if you are familiar with any of 16 candidates to live in particular districts?
17 these names. Do you know who Frank Oakley is? 17 A. Yeah.
18 A. No. 18 Q. Does that -- does that residency
19 Q. What about the name David Simmons? 19 requirement alone keep black individuals from being
20 A. No, not familiar. 20 elected?
21 Q. Emory Wilkerson? 21 A. No, 1 don't think so. But it would help
22 A. No. 22 if they lived there so they know the needs of the
23 Q. Wendy Felton? 23 people that live there more so.
24 A. No. 24 Q. Do you know if any current commissioners
25 Q. How about Malcolm Hughes? 25 live in the northern part of Fayette County?

A.
46

No. 1
48

A. 1 don't know.
2 Q. Charles Rousseau? 2 Q. Do you think that staggered terms for
3 A. No. 3 commissioners are a good idea?
4 Q. Did Malcolm Hughes ring a bell? 4 A. Hadn't thought about it.
5 A. You know, I'm not good with names, so 5 Q. Okay. Do you really have no opinion about
6 you — 6 it?
7 Q. Okay. 7 A. No.
8 A. You could read your name there, and I'd 8 Q. I'm going to hand you what we’ve marked as
9 say "no." 9 Exhibit 4, and that's the -  look at that. That

10 Q. Okay. Well, I'll just finish running 10 should b'e the illustrative plan drawn by Mr. Cooper.
11 through the list. 1 understand that. Ever heard the 11 And my only real question about this: Have you ever
12 name Rod Mack? 12 seen this map before? Do you recognize it?
13 A. No. 13 A. It does look familiar.
14 Q. Paula Snowden? 14 Q. Okay.
15 A. No. 15 A. Uh-huh.
16 Q. Carolyn Fludd? 16 Q. Do you remember the context in which you
17 A. No. 17 might have seen it?
18 Q. Faith Hardnett? 18 A. 1 looked at a couple of maps. One was the
19 A. No. 19 existing. One was the one that was, 1 guess,
20 Q. Laura Burgess? 20 presented to the board of education, and 1 can’t
21 A. No. 21 recall which one this is.
22 Q. Are you familiar with the 2006 special 22 Q. Okay. Have you ever contacted a county
23 election when Commissioner Florgan was elected in the 23 commissioner with a specific need for your area?
24 specia election? 24 A. Yes. And I couldn't -- 1 don't recall. 1
25 A. 1 don't recall, no. 25 believe it was the county commissioner in our area,

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-4 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 9

Ali Abdur- Rahman _____________________________  June 6, 2 012
49 51

1 and that was -  now, my wife -  1 didn't do it. She 1 FURTHER EXAMINATION

2 contacted them concerning the siren. 2 BY-MR. TYSON:

3 Q Okay. Besides the siren, have you ever 3 Q. Just one brief follow-up for you.

4 had reason to contact the county commissioner for any 4 Mr. Abdur-Rahman, 1 just -  1 just want to clarify

5 other issue? 5 and make sure we're totally dear on the answer then.

6 A. No. 6 So is it accurate to say, then, with the

7 Q. Besides the siren, is there any issue on 7 exception of at-large voting, which you believe is

8 which the county commission has been unresponsive to 8 discriminatory, you're not aware of any other

9 you or your requests? 9 practice used by Fayette County that is

10 A. Well, since 1 haven't made any 10 discriminatory to minority voters?

11 requests.. . 11 A. Not that I'm aware of.

12 Q. Excellent point. It's probably a very 12 Q. All right.

13 poorly phrased question, and I'm sorry. You just 13 (Deposition concluded at 4:40 p.m.)

14 said that you didn't contact them. Just give me just 14 (Pursuant to Rule 30(e) of the Federal

15 one second. 15 Rules of Civil Procedure and/or O.C.G.A. 9-11-30(e),

16 MR. TYSON: 1 don't have any further 16 signature of the witness has been reserved.)

17 questions. 17

18 MS. ADEN: Can we have a few minutes? 18

19 MR. TYSON: Absolutely. 19

20 (Recess from 4:33 p.m. to 4:39 p.m.) 20

21 EXAMINATION 21

22 BY-MS. ADEN: 22

23 Q. So, Mr. Abdur-Rahman, I'm going to circle 2 3

24 back to a question that Bryan asked you earlier in 24

25 your testimony where 1 believe you stated in response 25

50 52

1 to his question about whether the county currently 1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2 uses any policy or procedure that discriminates 2

3 against minority voters. 3 STATE OF GEORGIA:

4 You answered in the negative, and 1 want 4 COUNTY OF FULTON:

5 to ask you to explain that and to let me know whether 5
6 or not you wouid agree that you meant that there were 6 l hereby certify that the foregoing

7 no -  no current policies or practices with the 7 transcript was taken down, as stated in the

8 exception of at-large voting that currently 8 caption, and the questions and answers thereto

9 discriminates against minority voters? 9 were reduced to typewriting under my direction;

10 MR. TYSON: I'll object to that question 10 that the foregoing pages 1 through 51 represent

11 as leading, but you can answer. 11 a true, complete, and correct transcript of the

12 THE WITNESS: Well, 1 thought 1 was 12 evidence given upon said hearing, and I further

13 explaining that when 1 kind of toid the story 13 certify that I am not of kin or counsel to the

14 about the sheriff not getting elected. But to 14 parties in the case; am not in the regular

15 clarify that, that's -- that's where 1 was 15 employ of counsel for any of said parties; nor

16 going, that, you know, at-large -  a black voter 16 am I in anywise interested in the result of said
17 doesn't stand a chance or a black person running 17 case.
18 for an office, any office in this county. 18 This, the 18th day of June, 2012.

19 You know, with the majority whites 19
20 at-iarge -- every county -  every district in 20
21 the county gets to vote on who's going to govern 21 SUSAN M. PITTS, CCR-B-1806

22 my -- my section. So that's -- that’s to me - 2 2
23 that’s -  that’s at-large discrimination. 23
24 At-large voting is at-large discrimination. 24
25 MS. ADEN: 1 don't have anything else. 25

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 15

EXHIBIT C

Cited Excerpts of Deposition of Henry Adams



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 15

Henry Adams_______________________ ______________________ June 7, 2012
1

IN  THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE 
OF THE NAACP; FAYETTE
COUNTY BRANCH NAACP; HENRY C IV IL  ACTION 
ADAMS; TERENCE CLARK; FILE NO.
ALICE JONES, JOHN E. 3 :1 1 -C V -00123-TCB
JONES; DAN LOWRY; ALI
ABDUR-RAHMAN; AISHA
ABDUR-RAHMAN; LELIA
RICHARDSON; ELVERTA
WILLIAMS; and BONNIE LEE
WRIGHT,

P l a i n t i f f s ,
vs.

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, e t  a l . ,

D efendants.

DEPOSITION OF 

HENRY ADAMS 

10:36 a . m.

June 7, 2012

140 S tonew all Avenue, West 
F a y e t t e v i l le ,  G eorgia

Susan M. P i t t s ,  CCR-B-1806, RPR

3
1 INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS
2 EXAMINATION PAGE
3 Examination by Mr. Tyson 5
4 Examination by Ms. Aden 66
5 Further Examination by Mr. Tyson 70
6 Further Examination by Ms. Aden 72
7
8

INDEX TO EXHIBITS
9

i o  Exhibit Description Page
n

1 Verification 33
12

1A Plaintiffs' Responses to Defendant
13 Fayette County Board of Commissioners'

First Interrogatories to  Plaintiffs 33
14

2 Complaint 32
15

3 Plaintiffs’ Responses to Defendant
1 6  Fayette County Board of 

Commissioners' First Request for
1 7  Production of Documents 34
1 8  4 Map 56
1 9
2 0  (Original Exhibits 1 through 4 have been 

attached to the original transcript.)
21  
22
23
24
2 5

2
1 APPEARANCES OF CO UNSEL
2  On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
3 W AYNE B. KENDALL, P.C.

W AYNE B. KENDALL, ESQ.
4 1611 White Way, Suite 4 

East Point, Georgia 30344
5 (770)778-8810

(404) 228-2280 (Facsimile)
6 wbkendall2@yahoo.com
7 LDF

LEAH C. ADEN, ESQ.
8 99 Hudson Street, Suite 1600 

New York, New York 10013
9 (212)965 -2235

(212) 226-7592 (Facsimile)
1 0  rhaygood@naacpldf.org 

laden@naacpldf.org
11
1 2  On behalf of the Defendants, Fayette County Board of 

Commissioners; Herb Frady, Chairperson, in his
13 official capacity; Robert Horgan, Vice-Chairperson, 

in his official capacity; Lee Hearn, Commissioner, in
14 his official capacity; Steve Brown, Commissioner, in 

his official capacity; and Allen McCarty,
15 Commissioner, in his official capacity; Fayette 

County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; Tom
1 6  Sawyer, Department Head, in his official capacity:
17 STRICKLAND, BROCKINGTON, LEWIS, LLP 

ANNE W. LEWIS, ESQ.
18 BRYAN P. TYSO N , ESQ.

Midtown Proscenium, Suite 2200
19 1170 Peachtree Street, N.E.

Atlanta, Georgia 30309-7200
20 (678)347-2203

(678) 347-2210 (Facsimile)
21 awl@sbllaw.net 

bpt@sbllaw.net
22
2 3 Also Present:
24 Mr. Alex Galvan
25

4

1 D E P O S IT IO N  O F  H E N R Y  A D A M S

2 June 7, 2 0 1 2

3 (R ep o rter d isclosure m ad e pursuant to

4 Article 8.B . of the R u les and R egulations of the

5 Board of Court R eporting of the  Judicial Council

6 o f G eo rg ia .)

7 (Exhibits 1 through 4 w e re  m arked for

8 identification.)

9 M R . T Y S O N : This  will be the deposition of

i  o H enry A d am s taken by d efen d an ts  F ayette  County  

n  Board of C o m m issioners, H erb  Frady , Robert

1 2  H organ, Lee H earn , S te v e  Brow n, A llen M cC arty ,

13 F ayette  County Board of E lections and V o te r

14 Registration, Tom  S aw yer, collectively referred

15  to in this litigation as C o unty defendants.

16 This  deposition is being taken  for

17  purposes of d iscovery and all purposes allow ed

1 8 under the Federal R u les of Civil P rocedure and

19 Fed era l R u les of E v idence.

2 0  All objections except those going to the

2 1  form of the question and respo nsiveness of the

2 2  an s w er a re  reserved until the  first use o f the

2 3  deposition. Is that ag ree ab le , M s. A den?

2 4  M S . A D E N : It is.

25  M R . T Y S O N : And does M r. A d am s w ish to

ON S O L U T I O N *

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

mailto:wbkendall2@yahoo.com
mailto:rhaygood@naacpldf.org
mailto:laden@naacpldf.org
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net
http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 15

June 7, 2012
5 7

1 read and sign? 1 A. 51 years.

2 MS. ADEN: He does. Thank you. 2 Q. That's wonderful. I'm three years into

3 MR. TYSON: Please swear the witness. 3 that journey, so 1 hope 1 can make it to 51 years as

4 HENRY ADAMS, having been first duiy sworn 4 well. Do you have any children?

5 was examined and testified as follows: 5 A. I have two. I have a son and a daughter.

6 MR. TYSON: 1 would just like to note for 6 Q. How old are your children?

7 the record that the Board of Education received 7 A. My daughter is 51, and my son is 47.

8 a notice of this deposition and is not present. 8 Q. And do they live here in Fayette County?

9 EXAMINATION 9 A. No, they do not.

10 BY-MR. TYSON: 10 Q. They live In the Atlanta area?

11 Q, Well, Mr. Adams, 1 got my initial stuff 11 A. Yes, they do.

12 out of the way. My name is Bryan Tyson. I represent 12 Q. What part of Atlanta are they in?

13 the Fayette County Board of Commissioners and the 13 A. Northwest Atlanta.

14 Board of Elections and Voter Registration, along with 14 Q. There're up my way then. I'm in Cobb

15 Anne Lewis also from our office. 15 County.

16 And our purpose today in your deposition 16 A. Not quite that far.

17 is to get some information about your claims against 17 Q. Okay.

18 Fayette County. My purpose is not to ask you a bunch 18 A. They're near the Hightower train station.

19 of trick questions or try to confuse you. My goal is 19 Q. Okay. How long have you lived in Fayette

20 just to get some information from you. 2 0 County?

21 1 have a tendency sometimes to talk 21 A. Since 1990.

22 quickly, so if 1 talk too fast, put up your hand. 22 Q. And where did you live before you moved to

23 I'll slow down. If 1 get to the end of a question 23 Fayette County?

24 and you have no idea what I'm asking, just let me 24 A. I lived at 1445 Harbin Road, Atlanta,

25 know that, and I'll rephrase the question. 25 Georgia 30311.

1
6

For the court reporter's sake, it’s best 1 Q.
8

How long were you at Harbin Road?

2 if we both speak clearly and speak up. She can't 2 A. 25 years.
3 record a nod of a head and "uh-huh" or "huh-uh." 3 Q. That takes us back I guess to 1965 — is

4 Doesn't translate well on the transcript, so it's 4 that - n o ,1975?
5 best to say "yes” or "no." And then also if you need 5 A. No. It's longer than that.

6 a break at any point, just let me know that, and my 6 Q. Okay.
7 only request is that you answer the last question 1 7 A. 1 moved there in 1968.

8 asked before we take a break. So will that work for 8 Q. 1968. Okay. Sorry. Math is not my

9 you? 9 strong suit, as you can tell. Where did you move

10 A. Yes. 10 there from?
11 Q. And that's exactly what we want to do. 11 A. We lived in Allen Temple Apartments, which

12 Perfect. All right. What 1 want to do first is just 12 is up on Martin Luther King Blvd.
13 ask some background information, some biographical 13 Q, Also in Atlanta?
14 information about you, and then we'll move into some 14 A. Yes.
15 specifics about your claims. So can you first state 15 Q And were you born in Atlanta?
16 your full name for me. 16 A. No, I was not.
17 A. Henry Lincoln Adams. 17 Q Where were you born?
18 Q. Mr. Adams, what is your address? 18 A. Muscogee County, Georgia. Columbus.

19 A. 130 Briarlake Court, Fayetteville, Georgia 19 Q And did you grow up in Muscogee County?
20 30214. 20 A. Until I exited high school.
21 Q. And are you married? 1 21 Q And then after high school, is that when
22 A. Yes, I am. 22 you moved to Atlanta?
23 Q. What's your wife's name? | 23 A. Yes.
24 A. Louise Robertson Adams. | 24 Q My wife went to college at Columbus State

25 Q. And how long have you been married? i 25 University, so I was back and forth to Columbus.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495,0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-0 0 1 2 3 -TC B  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 15

Henry Adams______________________________________________June 7, 2012
9 11

l  A. That's when 1 left. i  part of background. I'm not asking you to offend you
2 Q. Back and forth to Columbus quite a bit. 2 by asking you them. Just part of the biographical
3 Have you ever given your deposition before? 3 information we have to ask. Have you ever been
4 A. Yes, 1 have. 4 charged with a crime?
5 Q. What was the -  how many times have you 5 A. No.
6 given your deposition? 6 Q. Ever been arrested?

7 A. Once. 7 A. No.
8 Q. And what was that case? 8 Q. Obviously, you've never been convicted of
9 A. Class action lawsuit, Ford Motor Company. 9 a crime. Have you discussed this case with anyone

10 It was 1 guess their 350 Econoline van, 15-passenger 10 other than your lawyer?
l l  van lawsuit. l l  A. No.
12 Q. Uh-huh. Do you remember where that 12 Q. Okay. Do you know any of the other
13 lawsuit was filed? 13 plaintiffs in this case?
14 A. 1 think in Pennsylvania, 1 believe it was. 14 A. Uh-huh.
i s  Q. Okay. And were you a class representative is  Q. Is that a yes?
16 in that case? 16 A. Yes. And I'm sorry.
17 A. Our church was. It was a class action 17 Q. Totally fine.
18 lawsuit. Churches across the United States were 18 A. 1 knew not to say "uh-huh."
19 suing Ford saying they sold us an unsafe vehicle. 19 Q. And how do you -  which of the other
20 Q. And you testified about your church's 2 0 plaintiffs do you know?
21  experience with the vehicle? 21  A. 1 know Dan Lowry, Alice and John Jones. 1
22 A. Right. 1 was the trustee in charge of the 22 know the Rahmans. 1 know attorney -  what's the
2 3 two Econo vans that we possessed or owned. 23 name?
24 Q. And do you remember what the ultimate 24 Q. Mr. Clark?
2 5 resolution from that suit was? 25 A. Yeah, Attorney Clark.

10 12
i  A. Haven't heard a word. l  Q. And how do you know Mr. Lowry?
2 Q. But it's still pending? 2 A. Mr. Lowry, we were fraternity brothers,
3 A. Don't know and really don't care, because 3 and we live in the same neighborhood.
4 1 find out only somebody that makes money is the 4 Q. Okay. How about Mr. and Mrs. Jones, how
5 lawyers in class actions. 5 do you know them?
6 Q. Do you remember approximately when you 6 A. They live in Northridge subdivision also,
7 gave your deposition in that case? 7 but they've been very active in the North Fayette
8 A. Been about four or five years ago now. 8 Homeowners Association.
9 Q. Besides that class action, have you been 9 Q. Are you a member of the North Fayette

10 involved in any other lawsuits as a party? 10 Homeowners Association?
n  A. 1 was sued back in th e '60s when 1 l l  A. Yes, 1 am.
12 rear-ended somebody. 12 Q. And how do you know the Rahmans?
13 Q. And was that in Fulton County? 13 A. They also live in my neighborhood, and
14 A. Yes, it was. 14 they are members of the North Fayette Homeowners
15 Q. And besides that car wreck case in the 15 Association also.
16 '60s and then your class action, you don't have 16 Q. And how about Mr. Clark?
17 anything else where you've been the party in a case? 17 A. Attorney Clark resides in north Fayette,
18 A. 1 don't know if 1 was a party in a case. 18 and that’s the only relationship 1 have.
19 Now, 1 sit on the board of some apartments that my 19 Q. Okay. Have you met him at civic
2 0 church owns. And the development authority, we call 2 0 gatherings in north Fayette; is that —
21 ourselves Allen Temple Development, Inc., we were 21  A. And in the North Fayette Homeowners
22 sued a couple of times. 22 Association meetings. We met at Northridge
23 Q. But I’m talking about you personally? 23 Homeowners Association meetings also.
24 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. And you live in Northridge
2 5 Q. Okay. And these next questions are just 25 subdivision?

Toil Free: 800 .2 1 1 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 15

Henry Adams_________ ____________________________________June 7, 2 012
21

1 ago. Why do you think a suit should have been
2 brought years ago, and why did you end up bringing
3 this suit?
4 A. There was a young lady who lived across
5 the subdivision in Dixie Leon who ran for the school
6 board, and 1 think she was the most qualified
7 candidate. She had a terminal degree and taught at a 
3 college campus, and she received a majority of the
9 votes in our Europe precinct; but countywide, she got

10 slaughtered.
1 1  Q. And so her loss in her race for the school
1 2  board is what motivated you to want to bring a
13 lawsuit?
14 A. That's one of the many reasons.
15 Q. Okay. Do you know what year she ran for
1 6  school board approximately--
17 A. I'm not quite sure.
1 8  Q. What are some of the other reasons that
1 9 motivated you to bring this lawsuit?
2 0 A. 1 see a lack of representation of some of
2 1  the needs that 1 perceive that we need on the north
22  end of the county that we have -  and first of all,
2 3 in my subdivision, it took us quite a while to get
24 our roads paved. And they gave us some excuse after 
2 5 other excuses saying that the weather, it wouldn't

23
1 A. 1 have to say yes.
2 Q. Okay. And you mentioned the roads being
3 paved. Do you remember which roads or what time
4 period the requests were made to have roads be paved?
5 A. 1 can’t remember right now.
6 Q. Okay,
7 A. They've been paved now 1 guess about,
8 what, five years.
9 Q. And do you remember approximately how long

1 0  it took the County to get out there before the end of
11 the five -  1 guess that would have been prior to
1 2  them being paved?
13 A. 1 mean it was probably a couple of years
14 before we finally got any action on it.
15 Q. Okay. And was it repair work on roads or
1 6  repaving over them or was it dirt roads that needed
17 to be paved?
18 A. Total resurfacing. They were paved
19 already, but they had started to develop cracks and 
2 0 potholes.
2 1  Q. Okay. Were some of those cracks and
22 potholes in your neighborhood?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And do you remember contacting anyone at 
2 5 the County about those issues?

2 2
1 permit it. It had to be a certain time of the year.
2 But they were paving other parts of the county.
3 Also, the Kenwood Park comes to mind, and
4 it's been up there now several years, but they still
5 have not gone past Phase 1. There are some other
6 things that should have gone into the park. And
7 certain things that we asked for specifically of
8 residents of the north part of the county, they were
9 not included in that. For instance, we wanted an

1 0  indoor pavilion on the property, so if weather was
1 1  inclement, we could go inside and still host
1 2 activities. But we only have open-air pavilions now.
13 Q. Let me ask you a couple of questions about
14 that. And you said that there -  you perceive a lack
15 of representation for needs in the north end of the
1 6  county. Are those needs the same whether regardless
17 of someone's racial -  regardless of the racial
1 8  makeup of the people who were requesting it on the
19 northern end of the county?
2 0 A. Rephrase that again.
2 1  Q. Let me try to phrase it again. You 
2 2 mentioned that there's a lack of representation for 
2 3 needs in the north end of the county. Are those 
24 needs shared by black and white residents in the 
2 5 north end of the county?

24
1 A. 1 was not the person who contacted, but
2 they were contacted. And at one of the public
3 hearings, that's when we were told that we would be
4  put online when the weather got -  had gotten better.
5 Q. And when you say one of the public
6 hearings, was that a meeting at the county
7 commission?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. You said that the County was paving other

10 roads at the same time. Do you remember what roads
1 1  they were paving at the same time they weren't paving
1 2  yours?
13 A. No.
1 4  Q, But you never contacted the County
1 5 personally about those issues?
16  A. No.
17 Q. You also mentioned Kenwood Park. Do you
1 8 know if the county -  let me go back for a second.
19 Is your primary complaint with Kenwood Park that it
20 took a long time to build?
2 1  A. Well, that's true. We had to really get
2 2 out and struggle to really put it up there. There
23 were no parks in the north end of the county, period.
24 And we felt that with the sufficient amount of taxes
2 5 that we pay Fayette County that we should have a park

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 15

Henry Adams______________________________________________June 7, 2012
25 27

1 in that end of the county, so that the citizenry of 1 Q. Smart. But you don't think she goes to
2 the north Fayette area would not have to travel to 2 Tyrone, do you?
3 the middle of Fayette County or even to Peachtree 3 A. I'm not sure.
4 City or Tyrone or anyplace else, Brooks, to get those 4 Q. Okay.
5 needs met. 5 A. I'm not sure. I'll have to ask her. If
6 And then once they did put it in the 6 they have a Kroger or Publix in Tyrone, she probably
7 budget, they reduced the budget -- they reduced the 7 would go.
8 moneys expended. But that's the -  lack of response 8 Q. And you also mentioned the lack of an
9 is one of the reasons. Seems like they should have 9 enclosed pavilion at Kenwood Park. Do you know if

10 -  representative should come and tell us why we're 10 any park in the county has an enclosed pavilion right
11 being put on the back burner. 11 now?
12 Q. Now, you mentioned that it was important 12 A. 1 don't think so.
13 for Kenwood Park to have a place in the north part of 13 Q. Okay.
14 the county. Is the -- are the needs in the northern 14 A. 1 think the only one that probably has one
15 and northeastern part of the county different than 15 that's not run by the Park and Recreation is
16 the needs of Tyrone? Is that why you didn't want to 16 Peachtree City. 1 think they have an aquatic park
17 travel over to Tyrone for a park? 17 and everything else indoors.
18 A. No. 1 think a park should be centralized 18 Q. And do you know if there's plans for an
19 located. This is a large county, and 1 don't think 19 enclosed pavilion in the future phases of Kenwood
20 you should have to travel -- there should be a park 20 Park?
21 within five nautical miles of anybody. 21 A. No.
22 Q. And do you know how many parks Fayette 22 Q. You mentioned that the money for Kenwood
23 County currently operates? 23 Park was put in the budget and then reduced. Can you
24 A. I’m not sure of the exact number, but I've 24 tell me a little bit about that?
25 been to the parks and recreation meetings. 25 A. 1 just know we had enough money to do

1
26

Q. And Tyrone is far enough away from where i
28

walking trails, develop walking trails. There
2 you live that you wouldn't want to travel there to go 2 should've been a lake and some other things that were
3 to a park? 3 included in there. And 1 don't know what the funds
4 A. Right. 4 -  the County 1 guess started having financial fiscal
5 Q. Okay. 5 problems, and they just couldn't expend it anymore.
6 A. It would be -  the way Tyrone is located, 6 But it's -  it's put in the budget for the Parks and
7 the roads situated, it would be easy for me to go 7 Recreation. And 1 don't know -  and 1 can't say if
8 down off of McDonough Boulevard, McDonough Road, 8 Parks and Recreation asked for it or not.
9 whatever it is over there. 9 I've done a lot of surveys online for the

10 Q. Do you go to Tyrone for anything normally? 10 Parks and Recreation Department, and they have the
11 A. 1 go shopping sometimes over that way on 11 question developed what you want to see in your park
12 Flighway 74. 12 system. And so 1 can't -  1 can't really answer and
13 Q. What do you go shopping for? 13 tell you why.
14 A. For various things. 1 know sometimes 1 go 14 Q. Okay. So you mentioned that the County
15 to Pike, and then 1 go -  I've been to the theater 15 has run into some financial problems. Do you know
16 over there, and I've been to eat over there on 74. 1 16 has the County been spending money on any parks in
17 know my wife probably does more shopping than 1 do. 17 the county that it operates, or is it unique to
18 1 don't do a lot of shopping. 1 go to Flome Depot. 18 Kenwood Park?
19 Q. And is there a Flome Depot closer to you 19 A. You said if it's spending any money. Yes.
20 than Tyrone? 20 I'm quite sure they can't operate unless the County
21 A. Yes. 21 gives them money.
22 Q. Do you know where your wife primarily 22 Q. Well, yes, and I'm referring specifically
23 shops for groceries? 23 to the parks. Do you know if they're spending money
24 A. That 1 don't know. She goes where the 24 in other -  the County is spending money in other
25 bargains are. 25 county-run parks?

Toll Free; 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3:ll-cv-Q0123-TCB Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 15

Henry Adams ______ ________________ ______________________June 7 , 2 012
29 31

l  A. What do you mean? For enhancements or i  filing of this lawsuit?

2 what? 2 A. Yes,

3 Q. Well, you've identified a number of 3 Q And how did you know Mr. Kendall?

4 improvements that you want to see at Kenwood Park. 4 A. We reside in the same neighborhood.

5 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. And did you have any conversations with

6 Q. Is the County currently expending funds 6 Mr. Kendall about this case before you retained him

7 for improvements at any other park in the county? 7 as your lawyer?

8 A. 1 don’t know. 8 A. No.
9 Q. And you don't know for sure the details of 9 Q. Have you ever attended a meeting — 1 may

10  the budget situation with Kenwood Park either? xo have asked this already -  with the other plaintiffs

1 1  A. No. l i  where one of your lawyers was not present?

1 2  Q. Okay. Mr. Adams, when you referred 1 2  A. No

13 earlier to the lack of representation for the needs 13 Q. Do you know if you have a fee contract

14 of the north end of the county, beyond the roads 14 with your lawyers?

15 being paved and the issues with Kenwood Park that 1 5 A. Do 1 know if we have a fee contract? No,

16  we've discussed, are there other issues or interests 16 we do not have a fee contract.

17 that you feel need to be addressed that aren't being 17 Q. 1 know earlier you raised a concern about

1 8  addressed currently? 1 8  being able to raise funds for bringing a lawsuit in

19 A. Informationally, there's a lot of that. 1 9 the past. Is that not an issue in this lawsuit?

2 0 And one comes to mind is that when the County decided 2 0 A. No, not -  somebody is going to have to

2 1  to go to new five districts, the people in north 2 1  pay, but 1 know the Legal Defense Fund is footing the

22 Fayette were not informed about this. The one day 2 2 bill now, and I'm not quite sure, you know, how they

23 they added -- one week they added to the agenda at 2 3 get their funds.

24 the end, and the next week on Valentine's Day they 24 Q. And when you talked earlier about a

2 5 came and voted. 1 don't think that was--1 don’t 2 5 lawsuit being filed before now, were you referring to

30 32
i  think that's fair to not only north Fayette, it was i  a lawsuit about at-large voting in the county?
2 unfair to the whole county to rush into a plan that 2 A. Yes.
3 quick without public input. 3 Q. And do you know why a lawsuit wasn't filed
4 Q. Do you regularly attend county commission 4 before this lawsuit was filed?
5 meetings? 5 A. Money.
6 A. 1 attend. I’m not a monthly rneeter. 6 Q. Mr. Adams, I'm going to hand you a
7 Q. And have you ever contacted the County 7 document we've marked as Exhibit 2, Keep our
8 regarding a specific need that the County didn't 8 numbering consistent. That should be the complaint
9 address or that you wanted addressed by the County? 9 filed in this case, and ask you if you can look at

1 0  A. Oh, 1 addressed about district-wide voting i  o that and see if you've seen this document before?
i i  publicly. n  A. Yes.
1 2  Q. And besides district voting, is there 1 2  Q. And is this the complaint that you filed
13 anything else that you've contacted the County about 13 in this case?
14 as far as a particular need? 14 A. Yes, it is.
1 5  A. Not personally. 15 Q. And do you remember when you first read
16 Q. Is it true that the only issue that you 16 this document or -  I'm sorry. Let me ask you first:
17 fee! the County has been unresponsive to you, to your 17 Have you ever read the document before?
1 8  personal requests regarding, is the issue of district 1 8  A. 1 read it after -  we received copies
19 voting? 19 after it was filed.
20 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. Did you review any drafts before it
21 Q. Mr. Adams, you also decided to retain . 2 1  was filed?
22 Mr. Kendall as your lawyer in this case; is that 22  A. No, 1 did not.
2 3 right? 23 Q. I'm finished with that one. Let me hand
24 A, Yes. 2 4 you what we've marked as Defendants' Exhibit 1 and
25  Q. And did you know Mr. Kendall prior to the 25 Exhibit 1 A, and I'll ask you first about Exhibit 1.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 15

Henry Adams June 7 , 2 0 1 2
33 35

l  Is that the verification you signed regarding the l participating in the political process based on your
2 responses -- 2 race?
3 A. Yes. 3 A. No.
4 Q. — to interrogatories? 4 Q. Do you know what the term "racially
5 A. Yes. 5 polarized voting" means?
6 Q. And if you would look at Exhibit 1 A, have 6 A. 1 have some — 1 have my own
7 you ever seen that document before, the responses to 7 interpretation. You can clarify it for me.
8 the interrogatories? 8 Q. Sure. I'm going to get your definition
9 A. Yes. 9 first, and then we can talk. Just your

10 G. And do you know if you reviewed that 10 understanding, if you have one?
l l  document before you signed Exhibit 1? ll A. Well, 1 mean, you said racial polarized
12 A. 1 can't remember in what order. 12 voting?
13 Q. Okay. 13 Q. Yes, sir.
14 A. But 1 know I've seen it. 14 A. To me that's when someone’s vote is being
15 Q. Did you provide any information to the is  diluted.
is  attorneys in this case that they used to prepare the 16 Q. Okay.
17 responses to the interrogatories? 17 A. And district-wide voting dilutes votes.
18 A. Well, 1 can't — guess we gave - all of us 18 It's not a one-man/one-vote concept.
19 gave an overview of what we felt about the lawsuit 19 Q. If 1 were to say that racially polarized
20 going forward. 20 voting would generally mean when white voters are
21 Q. Okay, And was that an oral overview to 21  voting for white candidates and black voters are
22 the lawyers, or was there something in writing you 22 voting for black candidates, does that sound like a
23 gave? 2 3 concept you've heard before?
24 A. No, it was oral. 24 A. Sure.
25 Q. We might come back to that in just a 2 5 Q. And have you ever witnessed incidents of

34 36
l  minute. Let me hand you what we’ve marked as Exhibit i  that happening in Fayette County?
2 3. It should be the request for production of 2 A. That's what countywide voting is about.
3 documents -- documents provided in this case. Do you 3 People in north Fayette tend to vote for black
4 recognize that document? You may not have seen it 4 candidates, and the rest of the three districts in
5 before. 5 the at-large, two at-large vote white.
6 A. 1 don't think 1 have. 6 Q. And how do you know that’s what's
7 Q. Okay. Did you provide your attorneys any 7 occurring?
8 documents that were responsive to document requests 8 A. 1 read the tabulation of the polls and the
9 in this case? 9 precincts when they come in.

10 A. No. 10 G. And do you do that after each election?
ll Q. Okay. And if you haven't, there's no ll A. Mostly.
12 reason to go through all those documents. You don't 12 Q. Do you remember a specific election where
13 have to worry about that. 13 you read the tabulation and saw racially polarized
14 A. I'm just trying to see if -  1 had 14 voting?
15 gathered some clippings, and 1 was trying to see if is  A. Same one when the first year Horgan ran
16 they were the same. 16 for county commissioner.
17 Q. So did you provide some newspaper 17 Q. And was that in 2006?
1 8 clippings to your attorneys? 18 A. I'm not quite sure when the other
19 A. No. 1 received some clippings, so --1 19 gentleman died, but it's when Horgan -  we had about
2 0 didn't provide anything. 20 four candidates, 1 think two Republican and two
21 Q. No reason to go through the documents 21 Democrats ran, and he beat all four of them.
22 then. Mr. Adams, have you ever been prohibited from 22 Q. And who did the black voters in Fayette
2 3 registering to vote based on your race? 2 3 County vote for in that election?
24 A. No. 24 A. Well, the votes were split among the black
25 Q. Have you ever been prohibited from 2 5 candidates.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 15

Henry Adams_______________________
37

1 Q. A nd  then is it yo u r tes tim ony tha t all the

2 w h ite  -  o r th a t a s ign ifican t num ber o f w h ite  vo te rs

3 vo ted  fo r C om m iss ion e r H organ?

4 A. Yes.
5 Q. A nd w ere  you able  to  de te rm ine  tha t from

6 the  p rec inct tabu la tions?

7 A. I w as ab le  to de te rm ine  th a t from  p rec inct

8 tabu la tion  and the  to ta l vo te . He got abou t

9 50-som eth ing  percen t o f all the  vo tes. And tha t's

10  w hy I say -  Mr. H organ d idn 't have a track  record  of

11 pub lic  se rvice , d id n ’t have education  qua lifica tions

1 2 e ithe r and, yet, still h is constituen ts  still pu t h im

13 in.
14  Q. Do you know  if any  w hite  vo te rs  in Fayette

15  C oun ty  vo ted  fo r any o f the  fo u r A frican-A m erican

16 cand idates w ho  ran?

17 A. I’m qu ite  sure  they did.

18 Q. So if w h ite  vo te rs  w ere  vo ting  for a black
19 candidate, w ou ld  th a t m ean th a t those vo tes w ere  not

2 0  rac ia lly  po la rized?
21  A. Y ou say if a w h ite  cand ida te  vo ted  fo r a

2 2 b lack cand idate?

2 3 Q. If a w h ite  vo te r vo ted  fo r a black

24 cand idate, w h ich  you sa id  yo u ’re sure  happened  in 

2 5 th a t e lection?

38

1 A. Well, it was not significant. Even if it
2 was polarized, it was not a significant amount of

3 votes for that black candidate anyway.

4 Q. Beyond this special election that we've
5 discussed with Com m issioner Horgan, are you aware of

6 any other specific elections where racially polarized

7 voting occurred?

8 A. I can say even the second time Horgan ran

9 it was polarized racially.

1 0 Q. Okay.
11 A. Because I believe in censuring. When

12  somebody has been convicted of possession of drugs,

1 3 they should have been put out of office. But he
14 still was overwhelm ingly returned to office w ithout a

1 5 very significant slap on the wrist.

16  Q. Has Com m issioner Horgan stood for election

17 since his arrest for marijuana?

18  A. I think he has — welt, I don't know if —

19 I think he's in his second term, I believe. I’m not 

2 0 sure.

21  Q. You're not sure if he's --

22  A. Yeah, I'm not sure.
23 Q. Can you think of any other elections that
24 are specific examples where racial polarization 

2 5 occurred?

_____________________June 7, 2 012
3 9

1 A. I believe when they -  the gentleman who
2 from the FBI, retired from the FBI, ran on the
3 Republican ticket, he was soundly defeated too when
4 he ran for sheriff.
5 Q. And was that an election that took place
6 in the Republican primary?
7 A. I'm not quite sure if it was just an open
8 race or what -  when -  it's when Commissioner ~

9 Sheriff -  what’s his name?
1 0  Q. Sheriff Johnson?
11 A. Yeah. Randall Johnson, when he left. But
1 2  I remember the gentleman from Peachtree City who ran,
13 he retired from the FBI.
14 Q. And he was African-American?
15 A, Yes.
16  Q. Based on your experience and knowledge
17 about Fayette County, is it your opinion that most
18  black voters in Fayette County vote for Democratic
19 candidates?
20 A. Yes.
2 1  Q. Do most black voters vote in the
22  Republican primary?
2 3 A. Do most black voters vote in the
24 Republican primary? Huh-uh. No.
2 5 Q. Do you know if Hispanic voters in Fayette

4 0

1 County favor one race of candidates over another?
2 A. I have no knowledge to base that.
3 Q. I know, Mr. Adams, you said earlier you
4 look at the tabulation of precinct results. Have you
5 studied what the African-American voter turnout in
6 Fayette County was maybe two or three years ago?
7 A. No, I don't keep those kind of
8 tabulations.
9 Q. Okay. So you don't have any specific

1 0  knowledge about turnout levels?
11 A. I can only speak about the polling place
1 2  where I vote.
13 Q. And what was the African-American turnout
14 like in Europe two years ago?
15 A. And this is hypothetical. I just see the
1 6  people when they come in to vote. I work at the
17 polling place.
1 8  Q. Thank you for doing that. I know they're
19 always needing workers for the polls. So you just
2 o see people who come in while you're a poll worker?
2 1  A. Yes.
2 2 Q. So you don't have any specific numbers of
23 turnout; is that right?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Do you favor a system where a candidate

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 15

Henry Adams_____________________________________________June 7, 2 012
41

1 has to get 50 percent plus 1 to win an election?
2 A. Haven't thought about that. Well, I've
3 seen it, and it can work adversely. See, you're kind
4 of young. I remember when Bo Callaway won the
5 governor's race but he didn't have a majority. So we
s ended up with Lester Maddox as the governor. So that
7 was when that came about.
8 And Georgia, one of the few states, would
9 not let a plurality of the -  get the highest vote to

10 win, you have to have a majority. Sometimes it's
11 good. Sometimes it's bad. 1 don’t have a preferred
12 opinion on either one.
13 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the term
14 "anti-single shot" provision where you're required to 
i s  fill out your entire ballot to have your ballot be
16 counted?
17 A. No, 1 haven't heard of that.
18 Q. Does Fayette County use any voting
1 9 practice or procedure that discriminates against a
20 minority group?
21 A. Not that 1 know of.
22 Q. You don't vote for candidates by slate in
23 Fayette County, right, you vote for each individual
24 candidate?
25 A. According to what election it is.

43
1 my wife convinced me she wasn't going to live in the
2 country with me still coaching basketball and coming
3 home all kind of hours at night.
4 And we looked at Dixie Leon. We looked at
5 Northridge. And there was a lot in there that was
6 available that our agent had gotten for us and to
7 make- - entice us to buy, he gave us two lots. So we
8 agreed to let him build.
9 And that's why we came. 1 wasn’t thinking

1 o about the politics. 1 wasn’t thinking about the
11 school system, anything, but my kids were already out
12 and gone. Place where 1 could retire.
13 Q. And Fayette County was a good place to
14 retire?
15 A. 1 won't say the county was a good place,
16 but my home was going to be a good place. I didn't
17 have the county in mind when 1 thought about buying.
18 Q. So when you looked at Fulton and Clayton,
19 it wasn't anything particular about the counties that
20 made you decide to not live there; it's just
21 availability of property and those types of things?
22 A. Right. And didn’t want to be in a big
23 subdivision. Wanted to be in one that was kind of
24 compact, that was just about built out.
2 5 Q. Is there currently anything that is

42
1 Q. So is there a time when you vote for
2 candidates by slate in Fayette County?
3 A. Something like a Democratic slate or a
4 Republican slate?
5 Q. I'm talking about a slate for everybody
6 basically. You pick one slate or the other. Do you
7 know if you use that in Fayette?
8 A. When you say "slate," now, in Atlanta, you
9 said different groups would put out a slate of

10 candidates to ask you to vote for them. I’ve never 
n  bought into that. 1 choose to vote the way my
12 conscious and my convictions are, not necessarily a
13 slate.
14 Q. And when I'm referring to a "slate," what
15 I'm asking about is something specific on the ballot,
1 6 not that someone is advocating for but something
17 specific on the election ballot. Have you seen that
18 in Fayette County that you remember?
19 A. Not that 1 know of.
20 Q. Why did you decide to move to Fayette
21  County?
22 A. Why did 1 decide to move to Fayette
2 3 County? It wasn’t just this side of Fayette County.
24 1 looked at Fulton County. 1 looked at Clayton 
2 5 County. And 1 was looking for acreage at first, and

44
1 preventing African-Americans from participating in
2 Fayette County politics?
3 A. We can participate in politics. No,
4 there's nothing preventing participation in politics.
5 The system in place that keeps us from getting a
6 chance to run for an election.
7 Q. And when you say "the system in place,"
8 you're referring to at-large voting?
9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So besides at-large voting, you don't know
11 of any barriers to African-Americans participating in
12 Fayette County politics; is that right?
13 A. None that 1 know of.
14 Q. Mr. Adams, if 1 said a campaign was
15 characterized by "racial appeals," does that mean
16 anything to you?
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. And what does -- is that a yes?
19 A. Yes.
2 0 Q. And what does that mean?
21  A. For instance, a candidate is running. He
22 has signs all over the county, no picture. Then his 
2 3 opponents will have it put in the paper, his picture,
24 so he can be identified as a black candidate. That 
2 5 has happened in this county.

O E f 'O S :  >I0 N s o t  t jTPONS

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 15

Henry Adams_______________________  June 7, 2012
45

1 Q. Can you give me an example of where that's
2 happened, specific election?
3 A. 1 can't say any specific election, but
4 it’s happened.
5 Q. So sitting here you can't remember any
6 specific election?
7 A. No, not --1 can't even think what year it
8 was.
9 Q. Are there other racial appeals you've

10 witnessed in Fayette County elections besides this
11 issue of putting a picture out?
12 A. Not in an election. I've heard statements
13 made at county commission meetings that 1 knew were
14 racial.
15 Q. Can you give me an example of a statement
16 made at a county commission meeting that was racial?
17 A. We don't want to be like Clayton County,
18 Riverdale, Fulton County, DeKalb County, when
19 district voting comes up.
20 Q. And why do you believe that's a racial
21 statement?
22 A. They refuse to clarify. 1 stood up and
23 asked the person to clarify what they meant we don't
24 want to be like those particular areas, which to me
2 5 they're mostly governed by blacks. Minorities have a

4 7
1 Q. Are you aware of any management problems
2 with Fulton County that are unrelated to race?
3 A. When you say "problems," all governments
4 are going to have some kind of problems, 1 don’t --
5 you’d have to clarify what you mean, what you mean
6 when you say "have problems."
7 Q. Are you aware or have you heard of
8 incidents of dissension on the Fulton County Board of
9 Commissioners that are unrelated to race?

10 A. No. The dissension that 1 know of is
1 1  concerning race with Fulton County, the north versus
12 the south.
13 Q. Have you ever heard anything else in a
14 commission meeting that you understood to be racially
15 charged?
16 A. None.
17 Q. Do you know how many African-Americans
18 have run for office in Fayette County while you've
19 been here?
20 A. It's been quite a few. 1 don't have an
21 exact number, 1 mean.
22 Q. And do you know how many African-Americans
23 have been elected to any office in Fayette County?
24 A. Only two. One was a Magistrate Judge, he 
2 5 died; and you just had Reverend Johnson, just was

46
1 significant input in their — the political process.
2 Q. And who is it that said, "We don't want to
3 be like Clayton County, Riverdale, Fulton County"?
4 A. Who is the lady's name?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. 1 don't know who she was.
7 Q. Was she an official with county
8 government?
9 A. No. She was sitting right over there in a 

10 room.
n  Q. She was a member of the public?
12 A. Uh-huh. But if you read some of the
13 articles that are in here, they back up what I'm
14 saying.
15 Q. You'd agree with me, wouldn't you, that
16 Clayton County has had some significant problems with 

i 17 its governance that are completely unrelated to race?
18 A. Yes. They can't control their -- one of
19 the things that has them -- problem is their
20 transportation system. That's not connected with
21 race.
22 Q. And you're aware of problems with their
2 3 education system also that are unrelated to race?
24 A. 1 know they had the dysfunction on the
25 school board at one time.

48
1 elected for the City of Fayetteville.
2 Q. And do you know Representative Virgil
3 Fludd?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And does he live in Fayette County as
6 well?
7 A. Yes, he does.
8 Q. Do you know how many times he’s been
9 elected to the General Assembly?

10 A. He has ever since he's first ran. He's
11 still sitting.
12 Q. Mr. Adams, do you know if the Fayette
13 County Commission has the power to change its method
14 of election from at-large to district voting?
15 A. They can recommend it, and it's left up to
16 the -- supposed to have been left up to the State.
17 Q. So the commission itself doesn't have the
1 8 authority to implement district voting?
19 A. Not on its own, but it has some entity.
2 0 If this lawsuit prevails, then they'll be forced by
21 an outside authority that can make them change it.
22 Q. Do you currently serve on any board or
23 commission that's appointed by the Fayette County
24 Board of Commissioners?
2 5 A. None.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 15

Henry Adams_______________________ __________________ ____June 7, 2 012
49 51

i  Q. Ever applied to serve on a board? l  here. People belongs to — they have to be from

2 A. No. 2 Tyrone to come up to our North Fayette Homeowners

3 G. Do you have any interest on serving on a 3 Association meetings. A lot of people are members of

4 board? 4 not only the NAACP, but sororities. My wife has a

5 A. Yes. 5 lot of sorority sisters who live all over the county.

6 Q. Which board would you like to serve on? 6 And we do get together from time to time if it's for

7 A. Probably Parks and Recreation. 7 death or celebration of the fraternity activities.

8 Q. And do you know if there are currently any 8 Q. And you mentioned the school system is the

9 African-Americans on the Parks and Recreation Board? 9 anchor. Do you know if children who live in Tyrone

10 A. I’m not sure i f - - I’m not sure if Alice 10 attend the same schools as children in Fayetteville?

n  Jones is on that board or not. They have an advisory l l  A. All of them go to Sandy Creek.

12 board? 12 Q. They go to the same high school?

13 Q. I'm really not sure. 13 A. Yeah, middle school and high school.

14 A. One of our neighbors is -  1 think he’s on 14 Q. And that includes children who live in the

is  -- oh, he's on the Kenwood Park Advisory Board. 15 city limits of Fayetteville, all of Fayetteville as

16 Q. Okay. 16 well?

17 A. That's not the countywide. 17 A. 1 don't know about that. 1 just know the

is  Q. Is that an African-American neighbor of 18 ones from north Fayette and Tyrone go to Sandy Creek.

1 9 yours? 19 Q. How would you define the northern part of

20 A. Yes. 20 Fayette County? You mentioned the North Fayette

21 Q. And he's on a board that helps make 21 Homeowners Association, the northern part of the

22 recommendations about Kenwood Park? 22 county. How would you define that?

23 A. Uh-huh. 2 3 A. Well, w e - - mostly we're bound by 314; 279

24 Q. Do you know what his name is? If you 24 back down to the Westbridge Road area.

25 don't know, that's fine. I'm just asking. 25 Q. How far -- what would be the southernmost

50 52

l  A. I'll have to think of Doc's name. i  point of your definition of northern Fayette County?
2 Q. If it comes to you later, you can let me 2 A. 1 have really no idea. I'm just saying
3 know. 3 that it comes down -  1 would say down to 92.
4 A. Okay. 4 Q. At 92. Okay. Mr. Adams, do you go to
5 Q. Mr. Adams, 1 know you’ve said you have a 5 church in Fayette County?
6 lot of documents in this case. Have you read the 6 A. No.
7 expert report of William Cooper in this case? 7 Q. Where is your church located?
8 A. I've read two reports. One is a 8 A. Okay. 1625 Joseph E. Boone Blvd., NW,
9 demographic, and the another one is --1 don't know 9 Atlanta 30314.

10 if Cooper is the one. But one of the gentlemen 10 Q. One of your experts says that people who
l l  graduated from Davidson College where my daughter l l  live in Tyrone attend the same churches as people who
12 graduated from. 12 live in Fayetteville. Do you know of any churches
13 Q. And it's actually two expert reports, 13 where that's the case?
14 Mr. William Cooper and Dr. Richard Engstrom. So 14 A. Not personally.
15 you've read both of those reports? 15 Q. When was the last time you went to Kenwood
16 A. Uh-huh. 16 Park?
17 Q. And one of your experts says that people 17 A. About two Saturdays ago.
18 who live in Tyrone have the same political interests 18 Q. And what did you do while you were there?

19 as those who live in Fayetteville. 1 9 A. We had a meeting.
20 A. Uh-huh. 2 0 Q. Was that a meeting of the North Fayette
21 Q. 1 was wondering if you can tell me what 21 Homeowners Association?
22 those interests are? 22 A. Northridge.
2 3 A. Well, the school system is the basis, the 2 3 Q. Northridge.
24 anchor. A lot of them are also fraternal-wise. 1 24 A. Had a picnic meeting.
25 have fraternity brothers that live in both Tyrone, up 2 5 Q. And is the park in pretty good shape?

: > t f o :

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 15

Henry Adams __________________________________________ Ju n e  7,  2 012
53

1 A. It's very clean, very well maintained.
2 Q. And do you know whether the County is
3 responsible for maintenance at the park or not?
4 A. Yes, they are.
5 Q. Prior to two Saturdays ago -- let me ask
6 the question a different way. Do you go to Kenwood
7 Park relatively regularly?
8 A. Quite often.
9 Q. And is it usually for meetings?

10 A. No. 1 just ride through there just to
11 observe.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Because 1 was concerned about the
14 basketball goals up there.
15 Q. Because you used to coach basketball?
16 A. 1 did, but 1 didn't really want basketball
17 goals to be in the first phase. That's another
18 quirk, because basketball is going to bring kids over
19 from Clayton County, b u t. . .
2 0 Q. I'm sorry?
21 A. No, I'm through.
22 Q. And do you know that -  whether kids from
23 Clayton County are currently using Kenwood Park?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. Is that a yes?

55
1 five-mile radius around it?
2 A. it's a thing of community of interest, but
3 it’s not the prevailing thing of interests.
4 Q. So in your mind the primary community of
5 interest Is the school?
6 A. Right. See, the reason you want about a
7 five-mile radius for a school, you don’t want your
8 kids to have to travel 15, 20 miles to a park. They
9 should be able to get on their bike and ride to a

10 park.
11 Q. Is the same true about traveling 15 to 20
12 miles to the school?
13 A. Well, that's the County decision. They
14 decided to draw the maps up, and they allocate the
15 size of the county where the demographics of the kids
16 are and which schools they should attend.
17 Q. And so you would defer to the County's
18 decision about that, as far as determining what the
1 9 community of interest is?
20 A. School board decision.
21 Q. Sorry. So the school board's decision--
22 and so if the school board determined that people in
23 Tyrone needed to start going to high school in
24 Brooks, would that still be a community of interest?
25 A. if they reverse it?

54
1 A. That's a yes.
2 Q. Do you know who was involved in the
3 planning that included basketball goals in the first
4 phase of Kenwood Park?
5 A. 1 do not.
6 Q. Have you ever heard the term "community of
7 interest"?
8 A. Well, 1 think that’s basically what you
9 asked me about Tyrone and north Fayette, community of

10 interest. That’s not the same kind of question?
1 1  Q. Well, how would you define "community of
12 interest?" Somebody who shares something similar
13 with you? How would you define it?
14 A. 1 would say if you're saying that by being
15 in the same high school and middle school, that’s
16 community of interest, because the school anchors the
17 neighborhood, the communities. People don’t want to
18 move to Fayetteville if the school system is not
19 exceptionally good. So that’s one of the anchors of
20 a community is the school system. So if Tyrone and
21 kids -- and north Fayette kids go to school together,
22 that’s a community of interest.
2 3 Q. And earlier you identified the importance
24 of having a park within five miles roughly of people.
25 Is a park also a community of interest, kind of that

56
1 Q. (Nods head.)
2 A. 1 can't really answer that question
3 because 1 don't know.
4 Q. Mr. Adams, I’m going to hand you what
5 we’ve marked as Exhibit 4 for your deposition and ask
6 you if you've seen that map before? This should be
7 the illustrative plan drawn by Mr. Cooper in this
8 litigation.
9 A. I'm quite sure 1 probably have. I've seen

10 maps drawn by both sides.
11 Q. Okay. So you've seen a lot of maps so
12 far?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What does the district in the northern 
is  part of the county look like to you in that map?
16 A. It has Sandy Creek area, Hopeful, Kenwood,
17 and Europe -  that's the polling place where 1 work
18 at — Oak Ridge and Blackrock. I'm not sure what
19 Blackrock is. I would have to look at -  that's 85
20 coming down 92. And Blackrock area that takes us
21 over there by Westbridge Road, I'm quite sure, in
22 that area.
23 Q. Do you know if you'd be in District 5 or
24 not on this plan?
2 5 A. 1 would be in District 5.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 ,495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta Street 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 15

Henry Adams June 7, 2012
61 63

l  A. Doesn't ring a be!!. Could have if they l  — you'd like to hear it.
2 were on the ballot, 1 might have voted for either one 2 Q. I'd love to hear it. What's your opinion?
3 of them, but! can't remember. 3 A. My opinion was Fayette County was
4 Q. Okay. That's fine. You mentioned that 4 demographically in the '60s and the '50s were
5 you supported Mr, Rousseau when he ran. Did you know 5 mostly -  almost about fifty-fifty black/white. And
6 Mr. Rousseau -- 6 then when they decided to bring Peachtree City into
7 A. No. 7 the scheme, it changed. And then the black ancestry
8 Q. -- at all before the election? 8 homes here sold out for the dollar, and they moved
9 A. No. 9 away. So that left a void.

10 Q. Did you ever meet Mr. Rousseau? 10 My wife started her first school right
l i  A. At a meeting. n  across the street over there, the big two-story
12 Q. And was that at a meeting of the North 12 wooden school for blacks, right across the street
13 Fayette Homeowners Association? 13 over there. And it was mostly blacks then. But
14 A. Yes. 14 since they -  when Peachtree City came and other
15 Q. Mr. Adams, you live in Northridge, is that 15 areas started developing, they sold out. White
16 correct, subdivision? 16 influx and moved in, and so that left a void.
17 A. Yes. 17 And then after Eastern Airlines folded,
18 Q. You mentioned the 2006 election when 18 all the blacks started moving into Fayette because
1 9 Commissioner Horgan ran for office. Do you remember 19 their homes became available. The pilots left and
2 o any racial appeals that were part of that campaign? 20 most of the -- in our subdivision, quite a few people
21 A. No. 21  were Eastern Airlines pilots.
22 Q. Do you have an opinion about whether 22 Q. And when you talk about th e '60s an d '70s,
23 requiring a candidate to live in a particular 23 are you talking about the 1960s and '70s when
24 district to run, kind of apart from the at-large 24 Peachtree City was first created or what time period?
25 voting system, affects the ability of 2 5 I missed that.

62 64
l  African-Americans to win board of commissioner l  A. Yeah. I'm talking about -- they were —
2 elections? 2 Peachtree City was probably developed about the early
3 A. Repeat your question again. 3 '60s -
4 Q. Let me ask it a little bit better. Do you 4 Q. Okay.
5 have an opinion about whether a residency requirement 5 A. -- when the man purchased all of that land
6 that requires a candidate to live in a particular 6 and built his own city. You know that brought an
7 district impairs black electoral success in board of 7 influx of people, then moved to Peachtree City, and
8 commissioner elections? 8 then they moved up in this area out on 54. And it
9 A. That has to be a "yes" because with the -- 9 just became a good area for middle-class Americans to

10 1 don't care where you live at. With at-large voting 10 live, but we came in the '80s and the '90s.
l l  it's going to be a disadvantage. n  Q. When you say "we," who are you referring
12 Q. So because of the at-large voting scheme; 12 to?
13 is that right? 13 A. The blacks.
14 A. Yes. 14 Q. The black population that currently lives
15 Q. That you believe the residency requirement 1 5 in Fayette County?
16 is a problem? 16 A. Right.
17 A. Yes. 17 Q. Are there any needs the minority community
18 Q. Do you think that staggered terms for 18 of Fayette County has that are different from those
19 county commission are a good idea? 19 of the white community of Fayette County?
20 A. 1 have no problem with that. 2 0 A. Well, 1 have to know -- 1 don't know what
21 Q. Do you know, Mr. Adams, if most of fhe 21 the needs of the whites, and 1 just know what our
22 African-Americans who currently live in Fayette 22 needs are, and -
23 County were born in the county, or did they come here 23 Q. I’m sorry.
24 as adults, or do you know? 24 A. That's the only thing 1 can say is what
25 A. I have an opinion. 1 don't know if it's 25 our needs are. Our needs are not being met.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 ,495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-5 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 15

Henry Adams_____________________________ ________________ June 7, 2 012
65 67

1 Q. When you say "our needs," are you 1 weren't going to waste their time and energy to run

2 referring to the items we discussed earlier about the 2 now under the present system.

3 roads being paved, Kenwood Park, budget issues and 3 Q. Do you remember any particular names of

4 informational issues with the commission? 4 people who said that?

5 A. Yeah. And one category 1 guess is the 5 A. I'm not at liberty to give you their

6 area of self worth, that, you know, if you desire to 6 names.

7 be something, you can't be it because there's a 7 Q. Okay. Were these people who had run

8 mechanism put in place to make sure you never get 8 before and had already been -

9 there. 9 A. No, these were new people.

10 Q. Can you think of any other specific needs 10 Q New candidates7

11 of the minority community that aren't being met 11 A. Uh-huh

12 currently? 12 Q. And you mentioned that Judge Johnson -

13 A. Quite sure 1 can come up with something, 13 not Judge Johnson -- Ed Johnson was a current elected

14 but 1 don't — 1 can't think of any right now. 14 black official for the City of Fayetteville?

15 Q. Okay. So sitting here today, you can't 15 A. Uh-huh.

16 think of any others? 16 Q. Was he elected countywide, do you know?

17 A. Uh-huh. Yes. That's a yes. 17 A. No.

18 Q. Yes, you can think of others; or no, you 18 Q. Can you also walk me through in more

19 can't think of others? 19 detail the various ways that you have publicly

20 A. No, 1 can't think of others. 20 requested district voting in front of the board of

21 Q. Great. 21 commissioners or from -- or to the board of

22 MR. TYSON: 1 don't have any further 22 commissioners?

23 questions. 23 A. 1 know at least three occasions that 1

24 MS. ADEN: 1 have a few. 24 stood up and 1 --1 didn't go up to the — 1 signed

25 / / / 25 up a couple of times and spoke on that issue that 1

66 68
1 EXAMINATION 1 believe that we should go to district voting. And 1
2 BY-MS. ADEN: 2 stood up, and 1 think they took ~ 1 didn't think we
3 Q. Earlier in your testimony, Bryan asked 3 had to come to the mike, but we were able to stand up
4 whether Fayette County uses any voting practice or 4 where we were and ask questions.
5 procedure that discriminates against minority voters, 5 And 1 was objecting to what some -- a
6 and you said, "No." Do you have an opinion about 6 couple -  there’s been a couple of times we've had
7 whether at-large voting is a current Fayette County 7 white residents let it be known, no uncertain terms,
8 practice or procedure that discriminates against 8 they didn’t want any part of countywide voting -- I’m
9 minority voters? 9 going to say district voting. They didn't want that

10 MR. TYSON: 111 object to that as 10 at all. And my question was, hey, this is probably
11 leading. You can answer. 11 the only area in the state of Georgia that’s still
12 THE WITNESS: Well, 1 thought 1 had 12 doing countywide voting, especially a county with a
13 answered that question. 1 told him at-large 13 hundred thousand people, and you're still going
14 voting did have an adverse effect on minority 14 countywide. It's makes me think we're back up in
15 voting. 15 north Georgia or south Georgia somewhere because you
16 Q. (By Ms. Aden) Okay. 1 wanted to clarify 16 can control the political process through district --
17 that. Do you have an opinion about whether -- do you 17 countywide voting.
18 think there is any apathy associated with candidates, 18 So 1 let that be known that my feeling --
19 in particular black candidates, running for office in 19 and I'm still feeling the same way, that I'd like to
20 this county because they know they can't win under an 20 see this in my lifetime. And 1 was feeling very good
21 at-large system? 21 when the board -  school board wanted to enter into a
22 A. That's a definite fact. 1 inquired of 22 consent decree, because 1 said it's going to happen
23 people running for school board when 1 heard that the 23 in my lifetime.
24 school board was going to settle, and they said they 24 I’m 74 years old, so ! know if it doesn't
25 would probably run after it became law. But they 25 get done until the next 1920 — 2020, ! might not be

f  = f t - ;

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3:ll-cv~00123-TCB Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 19

EXHIBIT D

Cited Excerpts of Deposition of Steve Brown



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN May 14, 2012
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 
NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE 
OF THE NAACP; FAYETTE 
COUNTY BRANCH NAACP; HENRY 
ADAMS; TERENCE CLARK;
ALICE JONES, JOHN E.
JONES; DAN LOWRY; ALI 
ABDUR-RAHMAN; AISHA 
ABDUR-RAHMAN; LELIA 
RICHARDSON; ELVERTA 
WILLIAMS; and BONNIE LEE 
WRIGHT,

Plaintiffs,

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al. ,

Defendants.

CIVIL ACTION 
FILE NO.
3:11-CV-00123 -

DEPOSITION OF 

STEPHEN BROWN

May 14, 2012

140 Stonewall Avenue, West 
Fayetteville, Georgia

Susan M. Pitts, CCR-B-1806, RPR

1
2
3

4

5

6
7

8 

9

10

11
12

13

14

15
16
17

18

19

2 0  

21

22
23
24
25

APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL 
On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
WAYNE B. KENDALL, P.C.
WAYNE B. KENDALL, ESQ.

1611 White Way, Suite 4 
East Point, Georgia 30344 
(770) 778-8810 
(404) 228-2280 (Facsimile) 
wbkendall2@yahoo.com 

LDF
RYAN P. HAYGOOD, ESQ.
LEAH C. ADEN, ESQ.

99 Hudson Street, Suite 1600
New York, New York 10013
(212)965-2235
(212) 226-7592 (Facsimile)
rhaygood@naaacpldf.org

On behalf of the Defendants, Fayette County Board of 
Commissioners; Herb Frady, Chairperson, in his 
official capacity; Robert Horgan, Vice-Chairperson, 
in his official capacity; Lee Hearn, Commissioner, in 
his official capacity; Steve Brown, Commissioner, in 
his official capacity; and Allen McCarty,
Commissioner, in his official capacity; Fayette 
County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; Tom 
Sawyer, Department Head, in his official capacity: 
STRICKLAND, BROCKINGTON, LEWIS, LLP 
ANNE W. LEWIS, ESQ.
BRYAN P. TYSON, ESQ.

Midtown Proscenium, Suite 2200 
1170 Peachtree Street, N.E.
Atlanta, Georgia 30309-7200
(678) 347-2203
(678) 347-2210 (Facsimile)
awl@sbllaw.net
bpt@sbllaw.net

2

3
4
5

6

7
8

9

10

11

12
13
14

16
17

18
19

21
22
23

24

25

Plaintiffs'
Exhibit

INDEX TO EXHIBITS 

Description Page

1 Notice of Deposition of Steve Brown 7
2 Article - Commission Brown denies NAACP

Ties 30

3 Article - 2010 Census: Minorities gain
in Fayette 41

4 The Short History of Fayette County,
Georgia 821-1977 58

5 Article - North Versus South 60

6 5/11/93 minutes 70

7 5/25/93 minutes 71

8 Article 4/4/96 - Activist wants county
to end at-large voting 73

9 Article 5/23/01 - Change County
Commission elections 75

10 Article 2/17/05 - Officials clash over
commission districts 77

11 Article 8/17/05 - Fayette Commission
should do the fair thing: Vote by 
district 83

12 Minutes of Special Called meeting
3/19/05 90

13 Minutes of Official Session meeting
2/9/06 93

14 Article - 2/16/06 - Legislature 2006 106
15 Minutes of Special Called Meeting on

8/20/07 110

16 Judith Moore statement 116

9
10
11
12

14
15

16
17

19
20

21
22

23
24
25

17 Letter 2/28/08 in re: Resolution No.
2008-119 117

18 Minutes of Official Session on
2/28/08 117

19 6/16/08, National Association for the 
Advancement of Colored People 118

20 Candidates Forum Format & Timeline
7/7/08 125

21 Minutes of Official Session meeting
6/11/09 125

22 Minutes of Official Session meeting
2/14/12 130

23 County Agenda Request 141
24 Resolution No. 2012-04 142
25 Minutes of Official Session meeting

11/3/10 143

26 Minutes of Official Workshop Session
meeting 5/4/11 145

27 Minority Appointees currently serving
on boards, committees, commissions, 
etc. 147

28 Minutes of Official Session meeting
5/11/06 157

29 Minutes of Official Session meeting
6/26/08 159

30 Minutes of Official Session meeting
9/25/08 163

(Original Exhibits 1 through 30 have been 
attached to the original transcript.)

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

mailto:wbkendall2@yahoo.com
mailto:rhaygood@naaacpldf.org
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net
http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN____________________________________________May 14, 2 012
29 31

1 year. !t was prior to my becoming Mayor of Peachtree 1 Q. This was in The Citizen. Can you read it

2 City. And 1 had a strong interest in making sure 2 for a quick second? 1 want to ask you couple of

3 that 1 knew what the issues were across the board and 3 questions about it.

4 sought opinions of African-Americans in the community 4 A. Yeah. Let me glance over this Okay.
5 and see what they thought about different issues. 5 Q. Have you read it?

6 Q. Okay. So how long were you a member? 6 MS. LEWIS: One moment. Let me ask a
7 A. 1 believe my membership ended in 2005. 1 7 question. Where on this does it indicate that
8 can't tell you when it started. It was before my 8 it appeared in the Fayette Citizen, and what

9 tenure as Mayor, 1 know that much. 9 date did it appear?
10 Q. So you were Mayor from 2002 to 2006? 10 MR. KENDALL: It's kind of -  you know.
11 A. Yes. 11 MS. LEWIS: Is it on there?
12 Q. So before 2002? 12 MR. KENDALL: Yes, it is. It's under the

13 A. Yeah. 13 top line. It's kind of faded, and it says, the
14 Q. So it's safe to say you were a member 14 citizen.com 4/15/2012.
15 three to four years? 15 MS. LEWIS: Okay. I'm going to ask that
16 A. Yeah, easily. 16 we get a better copy of that for the record.
17 Q. Okay. 17 MR. KENDALL: All right. All right. We
18 A. Easily. 18 can do that. We can get a better -  but it
19 Q. Probably longer? 19 appeared on April 15th, 2012, in The Citizen.
20 A. Probably longer. It was several years. 20 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) It says here that your
21 It was several years before 1 became Mayor of 21 membership status was recently called into question
22 Peachtree City. 22 because of the NAACP's voting lawsuit, and that you
23 Q. Were you an active member? 23 left the NAACP because the issue of district voting
24 A. Active by attending meetings? 24 became racially charged; is that true?
25 Q. Yes. 25 MS. LEWIS: Well, I'm going to object to

30 32
1 A. Yes. 1 that question. That's a compound question. If
2 Q. Do you recall who the president was at the 2 you want to ask him one question at a time -  I
3 time? 3 think there was about three questions in there.
4 A. Ed Johnson. 4 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. The last question
5 Q. Okay. And where did the NAACP meet at 5 I asked that you -- that this article reports that
6 that time? 6 you left the NAACP because the district voting issue
7 A. Flat Rock AME Church. 7 was becoming racially charged, and that's in the
8 Q. So you used to attend meetings at Flat 8 fourth paragraph.
9 Rock AME Church? 9 MS. LEWIS: What's -  wait for the

10 A. Correct. 10 question.
11 Q. Were you the only white member of the 11 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) So the question is: Is
12 NAACP at the time? 12 that truthful as to why you left the NAACP?
13 A. No. There was at least one other that 1 13 A. Yes, to a degree. I would say politically
14 know of. 14 racially-charged is a better apt description.
15 Q. Okay. Did you feel any way out of place 15 Q. Can you explain that?
16 being the only white member of the NAACP? 16 A. Representative Virgil Fludd was running
17 A. Not at all. 1 enjoyed working with the 17 for reelection, and he was, I think, using the issue
18 folks, and they were all great, hard-working 18 as a -  as a way to propel his reelection campaign.
19 citizens. 19 And he has a majority African-American district, and
20 (Plaintiffs’ Exhibit-2 was marked for 20 I think he was using that as fodder for trying to
21 identification.) 21 gain reelection.
22 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. 1 want to show 22 Q. But did he have any opposition during that
23 you what we have marked as Exhibit Number 2. So have 23 election?
24 you seen this article before? 24 A. I have no idea.
25 A. 1 haven’t. 25 Q. You're talking about the 2006 election; is

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresoiutions.com

http://www.esquiresoiutions.com


Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN___________________________________________ May 14, 2012
33

1 that right?
2 A. It'd be somewhere around there.
3 Q. And you don't know if he had any
4 opposition during that period of time?
5 A. No, 1 don't.
6 Q. But your reason for resigning your
7 membership in the NAACP was because Virgil Fludd, you
8 felt, was using the district voting issue to propel
9 his own reelection?

10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. Now, you were for district voting
12 at that particular time, were you not?
13 A. in a different sense, yes.
14 Q. When you say "in a different sense," what
15 do you mean exactly?
16 A. Well, 1 was looking at district voting in
17 terms of getting the various jurisdictions within the
18 county -- the municipalities more representation and
19 adequate representation. The cities had been
2 0 constantly barraged with lawsuits from the County.
21 And the district lines at that time were colonial
22 militia lines, which literally predated the city
23 of Peachtree City of which 1 was Mayor. So the city
24 was literally bisected by these militia lines, which 
2 5 had little bearing on population balance.

35
1 Q. Okay. So currently are you for or against
2 district voting?
3 A. No, I'm opposed to district voting.
4 Q. And why is that?
5 A. ! think the process was tainted badly,
6 like 1 said, with some of the inflammatory comments
7 and things like that that were coming out of it.
8 You know, the reason 1 was pushing
9 district voting was to try to gain representation for 

io  the municipalities and trying to make it fair for all 
n  the municipalities. And unfortunately, the process
12 went awry, and you couldn't fight that argument
13 anymore. It become a totally different argument.
14 Q. So you still think it’s a good idea for
15 the municipalities to be represented in districts?
16 A. Yes. 1 like the --1 presented a
17 redistricting plan, a rebalancing plan, that had
18 three districts. And it really embodied what 1 was
19 trying to do with the previous county commission.
2 0 Q. But that was an at-large system of —
21  still an at-large system of voting, a three member
22 plan that you presented, right?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. So that would not be the same as a true
25 district plan where the municipalities would have the

34
1 So in order for me to get a representative
2 from the County who would represent Peachtree City's
3 interest, 1 needed to get a district that represented
4 Peachtree City.
5 Q. So at that time when you were Mayor of
6 Peachtree City, you were for district voting because
7 it would have allowed more local representation from
8 — for Peachtree City?
9 A. That was my hope to getting — and 1 was

1 0 doing it for all the municipalities, not just
11 Peachtree City.
12 Q. Yes. But you were for it at that time for
13 that reason?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. So you've changed your position now: is
16 that correct?
17 A. Well, the voters overwhelmingly did not
18 like the district voting concept, and 1 was told that
19 on repeated occasions from people all over the 
2 0 county.
21 Q. Do you think your advocacy for district 
2 2 voting was a major cause of you not being reelected
23 to the mayorship of Peachtree City?
24 A. 1 would say, at best, it played a minor 
2 5 role.

36
1 authority to elect a person to the county commission
2 that represented those municipalities as you propose?
3 A. To a degree that is correct. But it would
4 ensure that 1 would have someone from Peachtree City
5 represented on the Board of Commissioners.
6 Q. Well, you've got that now, don't you? 1
7 mean, you, in fact, live in Peachtree City, and
8 you’re on the Board of Commissioners?
9 A. That was merely an at-large selection of

10 the voters.
1 1  Q. Yes. Herb Frady is from Peachtree City,
12 and he's on the Board of Commissioners?
13 A. No. Herb Frady does not live in Peachtree
14 City. He lives outside. He's in the county.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. That was one of the main problems. They
17 had so bisected the county with the city that you
18 could run outside the city limits and still be
19 Peachtree City's representative.
20 Q. But there's always been somebody from
21 Peachtree City on the Board of Commissioners. 1
22 believe Peter Pfeifer was on it from Peachtree City.
23 He was on the Board of Commissioners.
24 A. He was for a while, yes.
25 Q. Yes. So, 1 mean, there's never been a

Toll Free: 800 .2 1 1 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 19

STEPHEN B R O W N ____________________________________ May 14, 2012
— — ------— --------------— ----------------------------— — — ---------- --

41
1 A. Well, essentially, the rhetoric got
2 heated. Let's just put it that way, and he had held
3 some town hall meetings on the subject, and following
4 those town hall meetings, let's just say, the
5 discussion took a different dimension. It got more
6 racially charged than let's look at district voting,
7 and what the impacts could be.
s (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-3 was marked for 
9 identification.)

1 0  Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. 1 want to show 
n  you what we've marked as Exhibit Number 3. Again,
1 2  this is an article from The Citizen, and it was
13 published on March 18th, 2011.
14 MR. KENDALL: We will get a better copy
15 for you, Anne.
1 6  MS. LEWIS: Okay.
17 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) If you would take a look
1 8  at those numbers that are reported in that article, 1
19 just want to ask you a general question about it.
20 A. Okay.
2 1  Q. Before 1 get to that, 1 want to ask you
22  just generally speaking with regards to district
23 voting, do you subscribe to the view that district
24 voting would make it such that a particular district
2 5 commissioner would only look out for the persons in

4 3
1 interested in having somebody represent an area and
2 represent the people that put them in office, but you
3 have to take the larger picture into consideration,
4 and that’s even for at-large candidates.
5 1 mean, I'm a citizen of Peachtree City,
6 and 1 frequently bring up Peachtree City issues, but
7 1 also take the broader perspective of making sure
8 that everyone in the county is addressed.
9 Q. Okay. I'm just trying to understand and

1 o hone in on what your reasons for being opposed to
11 district voting are, particularly since, at one point
1 2  in time, you were for district voting?
13 A. It's largely unpopular.
14 Q. So you're against it because it's
15 unpopular with the masses in Fayette County?
is  A. Well, 1 think what the argument became, it
17 turned it into something that it wasn't.
1 8  Q. Right. And you're against it because
19 Virgil Fludd sort of tainted it from a racial
20 perspective-
2 1  A. Right.
22  Q. — is what 1 understand.
2 3 A. He was talking about actually, quite
24 frankly, racial demographics that just didn't exist,
25  Q. Okay. Well, let me understand your

42
1 that particular district and no other district; do
2 you subscribe to that view?
3 A. 1 will say it is very possible that that
4 could happen, and 1 have seen that happen in numerous
5 counties that have district voting where it becomes a
6 fiefdom. You know, you always hope that people could
7 rise above that, but it's not always the case.
8 Q. Do you think that would be the case, more
9 likely than not, in Fayette County?

1 0  A. You would have to ask that question on a
1 1  person-by-person basis in terms of who is elected.
1 2  It's all based on their personalities and their egos
13 and whatnot.
14 Q. Weil, I'm just asking your opinion. Do
15 you think that's going to happen in Fayette County?
1 6  You've lived here long enough to know who the --
17 A. It's solely dependent on who's in office.
1 8  1 have seen some of the best of the best in local
19 office in Fayette County, and I've seen some that 1 
2 o wish had never been elected.
2 1  Q. Okay* But you're not against district
22 voting for that reason?
2 3 A. For the central control of the district?
24 Q. Yes.
2 5 A. 1 would like to -- you know, 1 always am

4 4
1  understanding of the racial demographics that he was
2 talking about. What were they?
3 A. Well, at the time he said that we had the
4 ability to have an African-American majority
5 district.
6 Q. Uh-buh. And you don't think that was
7 true?
8 A. On paper, you couidn't make it happen.
9 Q. Okay.

1 0  A. You know, physically, there just were not
1 1  enough African-Americans in a concentrated area to
1 2  create a majority African-American district at that
13 time. It did not exist, and that's why 1 got
14 frustrated with the fact that he kept going in that
15 direction.
1 6  Q. Okay. You do recognize that most of the
17 African-Americans in Fayette County are concentrated
18 in the northeast portion of the county, do you not7
19 A. There is a large number of
2 0 African-Americans in the north part of the county.
2 1  Q. Would you say that's the predominant area
22 in which African-Americans reside in Fayette County?
2 3 A. 1 would say there's more there than the
24 southern part of the county, yes.
25 Q. Take a look at Exhibit Number 3. This

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3:ll-cv-00123-TCE> Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN___________________________________________ May 14, 2012
49 51

1 A. i think that's possible. We've become a 1 against a Republican in a county that the vast
2 very attractive site for African-Americans, and a lot 2 majority of the voters are Republican, how would that
3 of the African-Americans that live in the county that 3 change anything?
4 I've had personal contact with enjoy it immensely. 4 A. Well, you're assuming that all
5 So 1 would see it as an attractive site to continue 5 African-Americans are Democrat, which 1 think is a
6 to grow. 6 huge mistake, because I’m married to one
7 Q. Okay. So if that is the case, in that 7 African-American, and she's no Democrat, and a lot of
8 African-Americans that move to Fayette County are 8 African-Americans in this county are not Democrats.
9 like the ones that already live here, then this issue 9 But if you want to influence an election, they have

10 of representation on the Board of Commissioners is 10 every right as an American citizen to enter the
11 not going to go away; is that your feeling? 11 Republican primary and cast a vote. There is nothing
12 A. 1 don't have a feel on it one way or the 12 restricting them from going in there.
13 other. It won't go away if somebody keeps pressing 13 In fact, 1 will tell you 1 have had
14 it. 14 numerous Democrats personally tell me 1 was the first
15 Q. Well, 1 mean, do you think they're going 15 Republican they've ever voted for in their entire
16 to not keep pressing it? 16 life. So they walked into the polling place and
17 MS. LEWIS: I'm going to object to that 17 voted in a Republican ballot and selected me as
18 question. It calls for speculation. 18 their —
19 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 19 Q. These are African-Americans?
20 MS. LEWIS: You can answer if you want to. 20 A. African-Americans and whites.
21 THE WITNESS: No. 1 mean, you’re asking 21 Q. Okay. You would agree with me, would you
22 me to put myself in their position, and 1 don't 22 not, that every single office holder in Fayette
23 want to do that. 23 County is a Republican?
24 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. Now, how long has 24 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
25 the County used at-large voting? 25 Q. Okay. So then, 1 get back to my premise.

50 52
1 A. 1 don't know, to be honest with you. 1 African-Americans would have to vote as Republicans
2 Q. Do you feel personally that at-large 2 in order to make what you just suggested come true?
3 voting contributes to the inability of 3 A. Only in the primary. If they wanted to
4 African-Americans to select a person of their choice 4 vote in a Republican primary, they have every right
5 to the Board of Commissioners? 5 to do it. They could vote Democrat in the November
6 A. Actually, in all honesty, and 1 have said 6 election, general election, and vote for whomever
7 this to African-American leadership in the county, 7 they choose.
8 that if the African-American population actually got 8 Q. Now, you are familiar with
9 out and voted they could decide nearly all of the 9 African;Americans who have run for the county

10 Fayette County commissioners. 10 commission before, are you not?
11 Q. How so? 11 A. No, I’m not.
12 A. The sheer numbers, they don't come out to 12 Q. Well, you know about Malcolm Hughes and
13 vote. If they came out and voted, oftentimes the 13 Emory Wilkerson?
14 votes are so close from the non-African-American 14 A. 1 do know Emory has run for many posts.
15 voters, where you are looking at 49 percent for one 15 Q. Yes.
16 side and 51 percent for the other, that the 16 A. And never won any of them.
17 African-American vote could sway every election we 17 Q. Right.
18 have. 18 A. 1 think he is an anomaly of sorts.
19 Q. But in order to do that, they would have 19 Q. Well, he's a Republican, was he not?
20 to vote as Republicans, would they not? 20 A. He's been a Republican, he's been a
21 A. They could. That is one way to do it. 21 Democrat, and he might have even been a Libertarian
22 Q. I mean, that's the only way to do it; 22 at one time. 1 think he's — that's why 1 say 1
23 isn’t it? 23 think he's kind of an anomaly.
24 A. Not if there is a democratic opponent. 24 Q. Well, what about Dave Simmons?
25 Q. Well, if there is a democratic opponent 25 A. Yes. 1 know Dave Simmons personally. He

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 19

STEPHEN B R O W N _________________________________________ May 14, 2012
53 55

1  ran for sheriff. l  the Republican Party as the incumbent. And the Tea

2 Q. Right, As a Republican? 2 Party actually got behind Ed Johnson in Fayette

3 A. Uh-huh. 3 County, and he won by an overwhelming margin.

4 Q. And he didn't win? 4 Q. Is Ed for district voting?
5 A. He was from Detroit, Michigan, and people 5 A. 1 have no idea.
6 in the southern United States don't really think that 6 Q. You never talked to him about it?
7 someone who is the -- whatever position he was in the 7 A. He was when we spoke -  when 1 was the
8 police department in Detroit is really a shining 8 Mayor of Peachtree City.
9 example of the way we want our law enforcement to be 9 Q, He was for district voting?

io  conducted, and that was really the thing that shot io  A. He was.
l i  Dave down. i l  Q. Okay. How did Horgan get elected? He
1 2  It wasn't his African-American identity. 1 2  wasn't in the Republican Party.
13 It was the fact that he was bragging about being an 1.3 A. You'll have to ask Horgan that question.
14 officer from Detroit, and we don’t take the Detroit 14 Q. 1 mean, he wasn't in any party, was he?
15 culture and environment as something that we want to 15 A. 1 have no idea. ! don't know his party

1 6  emulate. 1 6  affiliation when he ran for office the first time. 1
17 Q. What about Emory Wiikerson? 1 mean, he's 1 7  have no idea.
1 8  not from Detroit. 1 8  Q. He didn't even vote, did he?
19 A. Emory vacillated so much from Republican 19 A. Couldn't tell you. Don't know, but I'm
2 0 to Democrat that neither the Republicans or the 20  sure you'll ask him.
2 1  Democrats liked him, and he caused his own demise. 2 1  Q. Now, how -  you mentioned Chuck Floyd.

22  Q. What about Malcolm Hughes? 22  A. Yes.
2 3 A. 1 don’t even think Malcolm Hughes was a 23 Q. Do you remember when he got appointed--
24 qualified candidate. 1 know Malcolm personally from 24 A. 1 do.
2 5 the NAACP. He did nothing to campaign, had no public 2 5 Q. -in itia lly?

54 56
l  presence. And don't show up for the election if l  A. 1 was actually part of that process.
2 you're not going to run. 2 Q. You were? So you know how he got
3 Now, 1 will tell you that Chuck Floyd, 3 appointed then, right?
4 African-American judge, lives in my subdivision; 4 A. Yes. The previous judge was making some
5 supported him wholeheartedly. He got elected. Ed 5 poorly chosen racial comments.
6 Johnson, NAACP president, personal friend of mine. 6 Q. Judge Melear?
7 Personally worked on his campaign for the 7 A. Melear, Kenny Melear.
8 Fayetteville city council; he got elected. 8 Q. What was he saying?
9 Q. Is he a Republican? 9 A. 1 think he was using the term "nigger"

io  A. He's a nonpartisan, 1 believe, in that 1 0  when he was talking to police officers in terms of
i l  race. 1 don’t think they declare a party. 1 1  getting warrants. And it was my police department in
1 2  Q. Well, 1 understand that, but is he a 1 2  Peachtree City that turned him in. 1 publicly went
13 Republican? 1 3 on the record in the newspaper and everywhere else,
14 A. You'd have to ask Ed Johnson. 14 that 1 would oppose Kenny Melear at every step of the
15 Q. Well, 1 thought I'd ask you since you 15 game. We went to the judge, Judge Tinsley, at that
1 6  worked on his campaign. 1 6  time, and he filed the complaint with the Judicial
17 A. It was a nonpartisan race. You know what 17 Qualifications folks, and we had him ousted.
1 8  1 will say. 1 had several people who are In 1 8  Q. Did the Judicial Qualifications Commission
19 conservative circles, and they said vote for the 1 9  put him out, or did he resign?
20 incumbent because he has affiliations with the 2 0 A. Weil, let's just say he was kicked in the
2 1  Republican Party. 2 1  butt really hard, and he resigned. Let's just put it
2 2 And 1 told them personally that 1 would 22  that way. Judges unfortunately have a separate legal
2 3 rather vote for the person who 1 thought had more 23 system that they adhere to. The rest of us go to
24 character and the person that 1 knew that would 24 jail. Judges just resign.
2 5 listen to the constituents than the joker we had in 25 Q. Okay. So you were instrumental in putting

Toll Free: 8 0 0 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN ________________________________________ May 14, 2012
61

1 MS. LEWIS: Asked and answered, but you
2 can answer.
3 THE WITNESS: As 1 said before, 1 haven't
4 seen anything that would tell me that.
5 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. All right. Now,
6 look over on the third page where -- about halfway
7 down the page on 048.
8 A. Uh-huh.
9 Q. It talks about Coweta County?

10 A. Yes.
n  Q. And Coweta County switched to district
12 voting in the mid '80s.
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. 1 know 1 may have asked you this before, 
is  but 1 want to get clarification on your knowledge of
16 Coweta County. Coweta is roughly the same size as
17 Fayette; is that right?
18 A. In land mass?
19 Q. No. In population.
20 A. Population?
21 Q. Yes.
22 A. Very close.
23 Q. And roughly has the same number of
24 minority population, right?
25 A. According to the documents you gave me. 1

63
1 questions before about Coweta County. But you
2 can answer it, if you can.
3 THE WITNESS: Sure. I'm just not sure you
4 can extrapolate the answer that you're wanting
5 to from the data that you're giving me. 1 think
6 if you look at the white population, 1 think it
7 went down, what? It was --
8 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) 2700.
9 A. 2700 people. 1 think you have to look at

10 overall population growth in general. Our overall
11 population growth, in general, is much slower than
12 Coweta County's. And we do that for a reason. We
13 keep rural estate lots, larger lots. We try to keep
14 -  we don't have sewerage in the unincorporated
15 county, so we have larger lots because of that.
16 It slows the pace of growth down, and
17 that's really the land plan and the type of thing
18 that draws people to Fayette County, both
19 African-Americans and whites. We tend to be a little 
2 0 more on the affluent side with African-Americans and 
21 whites, and it's the type of environment that we’ve
2 2 been able to create through these land planning
23 tools.
24 So, 1 mean, they’re growing in big
2 5 numbers, but so is Gwinnett County and so is Fulton

62
1 haven't --! couldn't speak to it personally.
2 Q. And they have district voting?
3 A. Uh-huh. Correct.
4 Q. All right. And also the document that 1
5 gave you showed that, and 1 don't know if 1 pointed
6 it out to you, but whites are moving into Coweta
7 County?
8 MS. LEWIS: Which document are you
9 referring to?

10 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Let's go back to Exhibit
11 Number -  1 think we marked it as Exhibit Number 2 or
12 3. Number 3. Look down on, let's see, one, two,
13 three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
14 A. Right. 1 see it.
15 Q. An increase of 34.3 percent in the white
16 population, okay, whereas Fayette has experienced a
17 decrease in white population. And Coweta has
18 district voting.
19 A. Uh-huh.
2 0 Q. So my question is: How is district voting
21 so bad for Fayette County and so good for Coweta
22 County when all of these whites are moving into 
2 3 Coweta County?
24 MS. LEWIS: I'm going to object to that as 
2 5 asked and answered. You've asked him these same

64
1 County and North Fulton, especially. But we don't
2 want to be any of those counties. We don't really
3 appreciate their lifestyle and their quality of life.
4 So, 1 mean, in essence, we’re creating
5 something that we appreciate. So if you look at the
6 overall growth rates, ours is going to be incredibly
7 slow compared to Coweta County's, but that’s the way
8 we want it. We're very selective.
9 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. Have you ever had

10 any black candidates to run against you?
11 A. Not against me personally, no.
12 Q. All right. Other than Linda Wells, has
13 there ever been a black woman that has been -- served
14 on the Fayette County Commission, to your knowledge?
15 A. Yes, there has been. I’m blanking out on
16 her name. Grace Caldwell from Tyrone.
17 Q. She served on the county commission?
18 A. That’s my understanding.
19 Q. Okay. Okay. Why is it that you think
20 Fayette County has or is so unreceptive to district
21 voting?
22 MS. LEWIS: I’m going to object as asked
23 and answered but --1 think he has answered that
24 several times. But if you can answer, you can.
25 THE WITNESS: 1 think, you know, for the

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 19

STEPHEN B R O W N _____________________May 14, 2012
65

1 reasons -- previous reasons I've given and the
2 fact that a lot of people moved here of every
3 ethnicity, moved here for specific reasons, and
4 people just don't want to see the system change
5 as it is because they appreciate so much what
6 they've got.
7 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) So you don't think that
8 it's a legitimate argument for African-Americans to
9 believe that they are unrepresented in the makeup of

1 o the existing county commission and, therefore, it
n  should be changed -  the system should be changed?
12 A. Well, like 1 said previously, 1 think if
1 3 African-Americans would show up at the polls, the
14 results would be markedly different than what you're
15 describing.
16 Q. What evidence do you have that they're not
17 showing up at the polls?
18 A. I've had several discussions with people
19 in the African-American community as to why we cannot
2 o get African-Americans out to vote. And
21 unfortunately, the numbers in that north Fayette area
22 tend to be fairly low.
23 Q. You've talked to the election board ~
24 executive director, Mr. Sawyer, about that?
2 5 A. No, 1 have not. 1 don't think that's his

67
1 Q. (By Mr. Kendal!) Well, just to test that
2 theory, how did most whites even come to know Ed
3 Johnson?
4 A. 1 told them, most of them.
5 Q. So you're saying they trusted your word?
6 A. Well, let's put it this way. 1 had talked
7 with people who are in the upmost conservative
8 circles, and they knew that Ed most likely voted for
9 President Barack Obama. And in those circles that

10 was about as oil and water as you could get. Those
11 same people supported Ed Johnson. He had a
12 distinguished naval career, he's an educator, he was
13 held in highest esteem as the NAACP president with
14 both the Board of Education and all the local
15 jurisdictions, and his character won the day.
16 Q. You mean to tell me as the president of
17 NAACP, he was held in high esteem by all of these
1 8 conservative people?
19 A. 1 don't hate the NAACP. I'm a
20 conservative. I'm just as conservative as they come.
21  I find people that 1 can work with and people who
22 have similar interests. The interesting dynamic is
23 that African-Americans in Fayette County are not that
24 distinctively different from their white
25 counterparts.

66
1 responsibility.
2 Q. i mean, you said the numbers are low, so
3 what have you looked at to --
4 A. Well, generally, when 1 was Mayor of
5 Peachtree City, we would always get the elections
6 figures. And it would show a breakdown, and we would
7 see what was available, what was out there.
8 The numbers in north Fayette, in general,
9 are low. 1 mean, that would lead me to conclude that 

10 even the whites who are living in that area are not 
n  voting.
12 Q. Do you think that the numbers would be
13 higher if they had persons that looked like them
14 running for office?
15 MS. LEWIS: I'll object to that as calling
16 for speculation, but you can answer, if you can.
17 THE WITNESS: I'll be very honest with you
18 and say 1 think over -- the majority of people,
19 1 don't want to whitewash the thing and say
20 everybody, but, 1 think the majority of people
21  in Fayette County look for somebody who they can
22 trust. And they look for somebody who they can 
2 3 counton. 1 think that's the reason that Ed
24 Johnson got elected over the white Republican 
2 5 incumbent. He was the guy you could trust.

68
1 If you look at education, income, you
2 know, career paths and opportunities, military
3 service, there are an incredible number of
4 similarities between the African-American population
5 and the white population in Fayette County.
6 Q. So are you saying most African-Americans
7 don't want district voting?
8 A. I'm not saying that.
9 Q. Do you believe that most African-Americans

10 do want district voting?
11 A. 1 won't say that either. 1 would have to
12 -  I would have to hold some sort of poll to
13 determine that.
14 Q. 1 mean, if you say they're not markedly 
is  different than white counterparts, and then you're
16 also saying that the overwhelming majority of the
17 white population in Fayette County is against
18 district voting.
19 MS. LEWIS: I'm going to object to that.
20 1 think that mischaracterizes his testimony. 1
21  don't recalLhim saying that, that the majority
22 of the white population in Fayette County 
2 3 opposes district voting.
24 THE WITNESS: No. 1 said the majority of 
2 5 the people that 1 have heard from of the

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN____________________________________________May 14, 2012
69 71

1 electorate overwhelmingly has been in opposition 1 or do you?
2 to district voting. 2 A. 1 don’t. I'm totally unfamiliar with
3 Q. (By Mr. Kendaii) Okay. So the difference 3 that.
4 is the people you've heard from? 4 Q. Do you know him, Ed Albrecht?
5 A. Yes. 5 A. The Albrecht name sounds familiar, but 1
6 Q. So do you think the people you've heard 6 can't place it.
7 from are representative of the entire population of 7 Q. Is he white or black? Do you know?
8 Fayette County? 8 A. 1 have no idea.
9 A. I'd say it's a good cross section. 9 Q. Okay. That's all 1 want to ask about

10 Q. Okay. So if we can assume that the 10 that.
11 majority of the people in Fayette County are white, 11 A. That predates my . . .
12 and the majority of people that you've heard from are 12 Q. Okay. Oh, the date on those is March 11,
13 representative of the people — the majority of the 13 1993; is that right?
14 people in Fayette County, then is it true, then, that 14 A. Correct.
15 the majority of the white people in Fayette County 15 MS. LEWIS: And I just want to point out
16 are against district voting? 16 for the record, this is just one page of the two
17 A. No. 1 said it is a good cross section. 1 17 pages of the minutes from March 11th of 1993.
18 mean, I’ve spoken to as many African-Americans on the 18 MR. KENDALL: That's right.
19 subject as 1 have whites. 19 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-7 was marked for
20 Q. And the African-Americans you've spoken 20 identification.)
21 to, are they against district voting? 21 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Now, also I want to show
22 A. Some are. 22 you Exhibit Number 7, have you take a look at that
23 Q. Name some. 23 one for me, please. Point you to the part of that
24 A. There is three ladies that come to the 24 that states, Redistricting of -  Redistricting of
25 Republican Party meetings religiously, and they're 25 County Commission Posts Discussion.

70 72
1 all opposed to the district voting. 1 A. Uh-huh.
2 Q. Who are they? 2 Q. On pages 51 through 52. Now, almost
3 A. 1 can't name their names. 1 don't know -- 3 through.
4 you can come to the next Republican breakfast. 4 A. I'm sorry. I'm on the same page.
5 They'll be there. 5 Q. Okay. Now, do you — under that section
6 Q. If you're guaranteed 1 won't be harmed in 6 starting on page 3751 under Redistricting of County
7 any way, I'll be there. 7 Commission Posts Discussion —
8 A. You know what's interesting. We have 8 A. Yes.
9 quite a bit of African-American representation in our 9 Q. -- do you know any of the persons that are

10 local Republican Party. It’s kind of a counter 10 mentioned there that made comments?
11 dynamic in what you see in most counties, which is — 11 A. I mean, Harold Goza is a long-time Fayette
12 this is the odd thing about this whole scenario. 12 County family. I know him only by name. Don't know
13 Q. Okay. All right. Moving on. 1 want to 13 him personally, but the Goza family has resided in
14 show you what -- let's see. I'm going to ask you 14 the county for a long time.
15 about some minutes coming up here, and 1 recognize 15 Q. Did he once hold office in Fayette County?
16 that you were not on the board at the time these 16 A. There have been many Gozas that have held
17 minutes were drafted. But 1 want to put these in the 17 office. I don't know about Harold in particular.
18 record just to show the dates upon which this issue 18 Q. Okay.
19 has been before the county commissioner. 19 A. They have been here for generations, but I
20 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-6 was marked for 20 don't know any — I mean, Commissioner Price, I know
21 identification.) 21 Commissioner Price. But all the other people who
22 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) The first one is Exhibit 22 spoke . . .
23 Number 6. And if you look up on that first page, 23 Q. What about Roger Marietta?
24 there's a person by the name of Ed Albrecht who made 24 A. I don't know him.
25 a public comment. You don't know anything about that 25 Q. Do you have any history of why, even those

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN May 14, 2012
109 111

l  Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Okay. Do you recall l  last two paragraphs where it starts with Judith

2 that there were five candidates in that race? 2 Moore.

3 A. 1 don’t recall the number, no. 3 A. Okay. Go over to page 5, too.

4 Q. Okay. Do you recall that four of the 4 Q. Yes.

5 candidates were black and one was white? 5 A. Okay.

6 A. 1 remember Wilkerson being in the race. 6 Q. Top of the first two paragraphs of page 5.

7 but the other ones, you know, 1 -  1 knew Malcolm had 7 A. Okay.

8 run, but 1 honestly couldn't remember if it was that 8 Q. Are you done?

9 race or another race. 9 A. Yeah.

1 0  Q. Okay. 10 Q. Do you know Ms. Moore?

l i  A. And the Russo fellow, that doesn't ring a l i  A. I know who she is. 1 don't know her

1 2  bell at all. 1 2  personally.

13 Q. Okay. Well, let me ask another question. 13 Q. Now, this was a meeting in '07?

1 4  This article talks about Kenwood Park on the bottom 14 A. Uh-huh.

is  of the first page. 15 Q. Before you were on the board?

is  A. Yes. 16 A. Y6S.

17 Q. Do you recall anything about Kenwood Park 17 Q. It dealt with the issue of the three

1 3  in the context of funding of that park by Fayette is  districts and their reapportionment. Do you have any

1 9 County? 1 9 independent knowledge as to where -  well, first of

20 A. 1 know a little bit of the history on it. 2 0 all, let me ask you this: Was anything done as a

2 1  Alice Jones was a very strong proponent of the park 2 1  result of this discussion about the reapportionment

2 2 and worked diligently on seeking some state funds. 2 2 back in 2007?

2 3 Q. Right. 2 3 A. Not to my knowledge.

24 A. And at that time there was a gentleman, 24 Q. Because you guys just recently dealt with

2 5 and he lived in -  he did not live in our county, but 2 5 that issue?

110 112

i  he had part of the county's -  our district, and I'm 1  A. Correct.
2 blanking out on his name. He's a white gentleman, 2 Q. That's what prompted you to submit this

3 Democrat, 1 want to say out of Clayton County. But 3 three-district plan?
4 anyway, he secured the funding for the park and then 4 A. Correct.
5 for the state, and then the County had to put in some 5 Q. And those previous three districts --

6 matching funds and what not. 6 residency districts were very badly mal-apportioned

7 Q. Is that Darryl Jordan? 7 before you adopted this recent plan?

8 A. No. No. 8 A. Yes, 1 would say so.

9 Q. Okay. 9 Q. All right. And also on the top of page 5.
1 0  A. I’d know it if 1 heard it, but he's no in  A. Uh-huh.
l l  longer in elected office that I know of. But anyway, l l  Q. Alice Jones makes comments again in '07 as

1 2  they created a park, acquired some agricultural land 12 she had done previously in years past. And you know

13 on the north side of Fayette County and have been 13 Ms. Jones, right?
14 implementing a plan for the park. 14 A. 1 do.
15 Q. Okay. All right. All right. Let's go to 1 5  Q. And she asked to - - essentially that the

16 the next document. 1 6  board adopt the single-member district plan; is that

17 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-15 was marked for 17 right?

1 8  identification.) 1 8  A. Correct. As stated in the minutes here.
19 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) We're going to mark this 1 9  Q, Okay. If you would, very quickly, turn

2 o one as Number 15. If you would take a look at that, 2 0 over to page 7 where it says Commissioner Maxwell.

2 1  please, sir. 2 1  A. Okay.
2 2 A. Okay. I'm going to ask you about -  the 22 Q. Can you read that paragraph?

2 3 last document. I'm going to ask you about page 23 A. Yes. Do you want me to read it aloud?

24 number 4. Okay. 24 Q. No. Just read it to yourself.

2 5 Q. Where it’s talking about -  down in the 25 A. Oh, okay. I've read it.

0 P O 1

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-0 0 1 2 3 -TC B  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN_____________________ _____________________  May 14, 2012
113

1 Q. Okay. The comments that Mr. Maxwell makes
2 about not wanting Fayette County to be like Clayton
3 County, you've heard that before, haven't you?
4 A. 1 have.
5 Q. What does that mean?
6 A. 1 think Clayton County is having some very
7 difficult times. You know, they've had some
8 political explosions related to the sheriff, the
9 school board, lost its accreditation, the -  some of

10 the municipalities within Clayton have seen hard
11 times. And 1 think that's what they're referring to.
1 2  Q. Why does it only come up when people are
13 talking about district voting? 1 don't see that -
14 I'm trying to understand the nexus.
15 A. Well, it comes -  1 would say it comes up
1 6  in a lot of issues. It comes up in land planning
17 issues and transportation issues even from time to
1 8  time.
19 Q. Okay. And it doesn't have anything to do 
2 o with race, the fact that Clayton County is
2 1  predominantly a black county?
22  A. It used to not be.
2 3 Q. Well, 1 know that, but it is now.
24 A. Yeah, 1 mean, 1 think -  we don't want to
25 be like Gwinnett County either. We don't want to be

115
1 want to be like Clayton County, predominantly black
2 counties. So the question is --
3 A. I would offer this: 1 talk about Coweta
4 County all the time. There are various things about
5 Coweta County, from a land planning/transportation
£ perspective, same analogies 1 gave you, that 1 do not
7 like. And matter of fact, I'm giving a presentation
8 tonight in Flenry County to talk about transportation
9 issues that involve the entire region, most of which

1 0  1 don't care for.
11 Q. So you're against the regional
1 2  transportation plan that's up for a vote?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. So you don't see any racial nexus
15 between these comments like the one 1 just pointed
1 6  out with Maxwell?
17 A, 1 would have to be inside Eric Maxwell's
1 8  head to know if he's making a racial connotation or
19 not.
20  Q. 1 mean --
2 1  A. And 1 don't want to go there.
22  Q. You've spoken to him before, haven’t you,
23 about--
24 A. No. I've actually been a very staunch
25 political adversary of Eric Maxwell, and we don't

114
1 like South Fulton and several other counties.
2 The unique thing about Fayette County is
3 we have a particular niche. We're the only county in
4 the 10-county metropolitan Atlanta district that does
5 not have direct access to an interstate highway.
6 That was actually very beneficial to
7 Fayette County in that no one wanted to come here for
8 years and years and years. There was not all what we
9 call "sprawling development” that occurred along the 

1 0  interstates in our county; thus, you had a
n  well-preserved rural atmosphere.
1 2  It turns out, that was exactly the
13 environment at the time in the late -  mid-to-late
14 '90s, early 2000s, where people were looking to get
15 away from things, and that includes African-Americans
1 6  and whites alone. And we were able to keep a pretty
17 high price point and attract the fluent residents of
1 8  all races.
19 Q. Mr. Brown, what I'm getting at is, 1 don't
2 0 hear anybody saying or read in these minutes where
2 1  any of the former commissioners say we don't want to
22  be like Coweta County or we don't want to be like
23 Douglas County or we don't want to be like Spalding
24 County, predominantly white counties. It's always we
25 don’t want to be like Fulton County, and we don’t

116
1 speak at all.
2 Q. Did you take his seat?
3 A. 1 actually took Jack Smith's seat.
4 Q. Jack Smith's seat.
5 A. But 1 certainly helped the person who did
6 take his seat.
7 Q. McCarty?
8 A. Yes.
9 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-16 was marked for

1 0  identification.)
11 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) I'm going to mark this
1 2  as 15. This is a -  actually, 16. This is actually
13 part and parcel of the minutes from August 20th,
14 2007. It's Attachment 1. That's the statement that 
is  was included in the minutes by Judith Moore.
1 6  So I'm going to -  1 don't need you to
17 comment on it unless you've just got something you
1 8  want to say about it.
19 A. No. 1 think this is the one she gave on
2 o Facebook. I’ve seen the Facebook -  not Facebook,
2 1  but YouTube.
22  Q. YouTube, the video?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Yeah. 1 think so. Okay. We will mark 
2 5 that as Number 15.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN___________________________________________ May 14, 2012
149

1  A. Six.
2 Q. Correct. Five different people — Darryl
3 Hicks holds two appointments.
4 A. Oh, okay I'm sorry. Yes. You're
5 correct.
6 Q. He holds two seats, one seat on the Board
7 of Elections and one on the Recreation Commission.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. So that’s six positions that are being 

1 0  held by five different African-Americans or
n  minorities, 1 would say, because this doesn’t say
1 2  African-Americans, it just says minority appointees.
13 Let's assume there are 80 total positions,
14 and let's also assume that the African-American
15 population in Fayette County is 20 percent and
1 6  Hispanic population is about 3 or 4 percent — 4
17 percent, let's call it. And there are 80 positions
1 8  and only 5 minorities, well, 6 minorities -- 6
19 positions. Would you say that's overrepresented,
2 o underrepresented, or about right?
2 1  A. Well, by the nature of these being
22  appointed positions, you would have to have minority 
2 3 applicants, and if you don't have any minority
24 applicants, you know, 1 think that would be the
25 better judge of, you know, whether you are getting a

151
1 those, 6 were selected. And then you have a problem.
2 But unfortunately, you don't have a problem because
3 you don't know how many people are actually
4 interested in participating in those positions.
5 Q. 1 guess the problem 1 have with what you
6 just said is that you keep talking about
7 applications, but there is no application process.
8 A. Right.
9 Q. So you're saying that because there is no

1 0  application process, you don't really know if this is
11 underrepresented or not?
1 2  A. Well, for the record, 1 will say any
13 citizen of the county can come to the county
14 administration building here at any time and inquire
15 about positions that are open and fill out an
16 application.
17 The problem that 1 have is that we don't
1 8  publicly advertise those positions. There is a
19 distinct difference between, you know, not allowing
20 people to apply and not publicly advertising. They
2 1  can come to the building and advertise -- and apply.
22 They’re just not advertised spots.
23 Q. Well, how would they ever know when there
24 is a vacancy?
25 A. They could come and inquire at the

150
1 fair distribution. Now, the line is how many
2 minorities actually applied for these positions.
3 Q. Well, 1 thought you just told us that
4  there is no application -- there is no advertisement
5 of the positions, it's kind of -  in fact, you
6 characterize it as, you know, we just ramble around
7 trying to find somebody, is, 1 think, what you stated
8 in some minutes that I've read.
9 A. No, rummage.

1 0  Q. Rummage. Okay. You rummage around. So, 
n  1 mean, there is no application -- it's just, you
1 2  know, the existing commissioners just rummage around
13 and get their buddies and seems like their relatives?
14 A. Well, 1 mean, six of their buddies are
15 African-Americans because they are in these spots,
1 6  but I'm just saying, essentially, 1 don't agree with
1 7 the process of how they're selected.
1 8  Q. You don't think it's representative, do
19 you, of the cross section of the community?
20 A. Well, 1 would say you’d have to see the 

. 2 1  number of applicants that would apply for the
22 position. Because for appointed positions, unless 
2 3 you have people who show an interest, you really
24 can't gauge the distribution. You would have to say
25  1 had 150 people who were interested, and out of

152
1 administrative building. You know, this is not —
2 put it this way: It's not uncommon for people to
3 call into the administrative office and inquire on
4 any number of subjects, 1 mean, anything from what
5 the library hours are to what the public works
6 schedule is to repairing my street, to when are the
7 meetings for the planning commission.
8 1 mean, we get thousands and thousands of
9 calls coming in of people inquiring about various

1 0  things. So, 1 mean, it's not out of the realm of
11 possibility that somebody could call and inquire
1 2  about these positions. 1 would dare say that's
13 probably how some of these people got these positions
14 on this list, Exhibit 27, that you gave me.
15 Q. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Weil, 1 noticed one
16 of the things you say here on page 5, is that -
17 MS. LEWIS: Which exhibit are you on?
1 8  MR. KENDALL: On Number 26, page 5.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay.
20 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) And in the first
2 1  paragraph down, section 6, you say the issue -  in
22 the middle of the paragraph, the issue brought it to
23 his attention that available appointment positions
24 were not advertised, which is -- it starts in the
25  center, he reminded the board, talking about you,

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN __________________May 14, 2012
157

1 Q. All right. Thank you.
2 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-28 was marked for
3 identification.)
4 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Number 28 is the minutes
5 from May 11, 2006. I want to point your attention to
6 page 6, Discussion of Phase I Facilities At Kenwood
7 Park.
8 A. Okay. Carry on to page 7?
9 Q. No. Just the first paragraph there.

1 0  A. Okay.
1 1  Q. Are you familiar with the recreational
1 2  facilities that Fayette County provides?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. Can you identify the public
15 facilities that the county provides to its citizens?
1 6  A. There are a number of parks, Kiwanis Park.
17 There is the soccer complex that's used on —
18 Q. Highway 54 East?
19 A. Yeah. McDonough -  I'm forgetting the
20  name of the street. I'm sorry.
2 1  Q. McDonough Road?
22 A. McDonough Road. Thank you. We use
23 several gymnasiums through the board of education.
24 They allow us to use those for the basketball
25 program. There's Kenwood. There's Lake Horgan.

159
1 A. There are currently some funds set aside
2 for the park. They are frozen right now with a lot
3 of the recreation funds because of the economy.
4 There have been some reductions in the amount of
5 funding for the park, but 1 would dare say that's
6 been across the board because of the revenue plunge
7 that we have experienced with the economy.
8 We will be moving forward with a parking
9 lot, additional parking capacity at that park. That

1 0  was done at my insistence, and that will be
11 implemented sometime this summer.
1 2  Q. What about actual recreational amenities?
13 A. They have many of the things listed in the
14 Phase 1 already.
15 Q. What about things listed in Phase II?
1 6  A. 1 don't believe Phase II is coming out of
17 the ground yet.
1 8  Q. Okay. All right.
19 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-29 was marked for
20 identification.)
2 1  Q. (By Mr. Kendall) All right. Let's move
22  on to the next one. Exhibit 29. Okay. If you will
23 look over document 29, what we've marked as Number
24 29, on page 3.
25 A. Okay.

158
1  There’s Lake Kedron. They all have fishing and
2 non-motorized boating. You know, various other
3 things. There is the recreation headquarters, which
4 they do classes out of.
5 Q. Okay. And the only one that's located in
6 the northern part of the county is Kenwood Park; is
7 that right.
8 A. Yes, 1 believe, that is correct.
9 Q. And it was first approved back in '06, is

10 that right, pursuant to this motion?
11 A. Yeah. 1 would have to sa y - - 1 don't know
1 2  the exact dates, but if it is stated on these
13 minutes, then 1 would go with that, but . . .
14 Q. And this is the Phase 1 budget, right,
15 that was being approved here?
16 A. Yeah. It says discussion of Phase 1.
17 Q. Do you know when that park came on line?
1 8  A. 1 couldn't give you the exact date. 1
19 wasn't on the board at the time.
20 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the fact that
2 1  the County has eliminated any further funding for the
22  park since this Phase 1?
23 A. Funding has not been eliminated totally.
24 Q. So what is the status of funding of
25 Kenwood Park?

160
1 Q. 1 think like the third paragraph starts
2 with Alice Jones commenting.
3 A. Okay. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. So you stand by your comments that
5 the money has not been zeroed out?
6 A. Yeah. There's a difference between not
7 funding and not spending. The County has set aside
8 funds in previous budgets for that park. It's part
9 of the Community Improvement Program. So there have

1 0  been allocations of funding, even in this year, for
1 1  that park. What 1 think Ms. Jones is referring to is
1 2  the fact that the money was not being spent as fast
13 as she wanted it to.
14 Q. Well, she is saying that no money was
15 appropriated for Phase II?
16 A. 1 can tell you there is money in the
17 budget. 1 saw it last week in the budget book.
18 Q. Okay. So you say it's being frozen, you
19 mean the money just sits in a bank account somewhere?
2 0 A. Well, essentially. When you are in an
2 1  economy like we are and service costs continue to
22 escalate, and your revenues are dropping
2 3 precipitously, you better freeze every nonessential
24 service you've got, and recreation is a nonessential
25 service.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN___________________________________________ May 14, 2012
161 163

1 mean, I've got to make sure an ambulance 1 hit you and not defend yourself.

2 gets to your door or a fire truck makes it to the 2 Q. Okay. All right.

3 scene before I do recreation. And right now we have 3 A. We're trying to not initiate any lawsuits,

4 -- we're doing an early retirement program. We have 4 so on that end, we're doing a pretty good job. And 1

5 released dozens of positions in the county. We have 5 will say — just let me add one thing.

6 not spent on maintenance equipment and heavy 6 Q. Sure.
7 equipment that we need to do our daily activity for 7 A. ! have worked with the north Fayette

8 roads and public works. So, you know, in that 8 Homeowners Association. Alice Jones, she heads up --

9 environment -- and this is something that every 9 she is one of the key principals in that group, and

10 county in the state is doing. 10 I've worked specifically with them on Kenwood Park.

11 Q. So you're saying the money is there, but 11 And they are creating a nonprofit association that

12 you're just holding onto it just to make sure you've 12 looks at generating revenue if that park -  it helps

13 got enough money to -- 13 to pay for some of the things in the park.
14 A. Well, we’ve actually -- 14 I’ve been part of an association that has
15 Q. -- take care of essential functions? 15 done that with a 501(c)(3) and totally funded a
16 A. 1 will tell you, we have had to pull money 16 municipal park without city assistance, and I'm
17 away from the park to help fund vital services. 17 getting them to look at ways that they can do that as
18 There's still funding in for that park, but we've had 18 well.
19 to pull some of it away to be able to supply our 19 Q. Ail right.
20 citizens, including citizens of north Fayette, with 20 A. And they are in the process of doing that.
21 vital services. 21 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit-30 was marked for
22 Q. How much money is in the budget that you 22 identification.)
23 just saw last week for Kenwood Park? 23 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) If you would, please
24 A. 1 want to say it was over a million 24 look at document Number 30.
25 dollars. 25 A. Is there a section here?

162 164
1 Q. And what would it take to trigger spending 1 Q. Yes, page 4.
2 that money on Kenwood Park? 2 A. Okay. Under the Public Comment section?
3 A. A sharp reversal in the economy. 3 Q. Yes, Public Comment on page 4.
4 Q. So it's just going to sit there until the 4 A. Okay.
5 economy reverses? 5 Q. Question: Is the County utilizing Kenwood
6 A. Well, like 1 said previously, we have 6 Park on its regular little league schedule and other
7 actually used some of that money to provide vital 7 schedules for youth recreation?
8 services, so we've actually had to withdraw some of 8 A. Not that 1 know of.
9 that money. 9 Q. Why is that? Why is it not?

10 The problem is we've lost over a billion 10 A. Well, the key ingredient in having an
11 dollars in property valuation since '07. Those are 11 official little league program is parent
12 serious, serious ad valorem tax numbers, and it's 12 participation. And unless you get parents to lead
13 causing some serious service delivery problems. 13 the charge, every association, whether it be soccer
14 And if you ask the public, would you 14 or softball or, you know, baseball, has parents who
15 rather have the ambulance, the fire truck or the 15 are heading up nonprofit associations that run those
16 deputy show up to your house or have another tennis 16 sports.
17 court, that choice is a pretty easy one to make. 17 That's one of the reasons why I'm trying
18 Q. Okay. Have you frozen any money in the 18 to form the association with Kedron Park to actually
19 litigation budget? 19 get people in that community involved in that park,
20 A. Don’t really have a litigation budget per 20 and that is readily open to them as an option. If
21 se. We generally bring that money out of the general 21 they want to form the association, they can do that.
22 fund when it’s required. 22 THE REPORTER: Did you say "Kedron" or
23 Q. So that's an essential function? 23 "Kenwood"?
24 A. Well, when you're being sued, you have to 24 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, Kenwood. I'm
25 defend yourself. Don't lay waiting for a lawsuit to 25 might have said Kedron, but I'm sorry, Kenwood.

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 16 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN - Volume II May 15, 2012
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 
NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE 
OF THE NAACP; FAYETTE
COUNTY BRANCH NAACP; HENRY CIVIL ACTION 
ADAMS; TERENCE CLARK; FILE NO.
ALICE JONES, JOHN E. 3:11-CV-00123-TCB
JONES; DAN LOWRY; ALI
ABDUR-RAHMAN; AiSHA
ABDUR-RAHMAN; LELIA
RICHARDSON; ELVERTA
WILLIAMS; and BONNIE LEE
WRIGHT,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al., 

Defendants.

CONTINUATION OF THE DEPOSITION OF 

STEPHEN BROWN 

VOLUME II 

12:09 p.m.

May 15, 2012

140 Stonewall Avenue, West 
Fayetteville, Georgia

Susan M. Pitts, CCR-B-1806, RPR

174

10
11

13
14

15
16

17
18
19
20 
21 
22
23
24
25

INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS 
Examination Page
Continued Examination by Mr. Kendall 175
Examination by Mr. Strickland 191

INDEX TO EXHIBITS
Plaintiffs'

Exhibit Description Page

31 Official Session Meeting Minutes
4/10/08 - Fayette 2395-2399 179

32 Official Session Meeting Minutes
2/26/09 - Fayette 2608-2613 180

33 Official Session Meeting Minutes
5/28/09 - Fayette 2666-2677 182

34 Official Session Meeting Minutes
3/13/08 - Fayette 2365-2370 183

35 Official Session Meeting Minutes
11/10/11- Fayette 3306-3311 187

(Original Exhibits 31 through 35 have been 
attached to the original transcript.)

n
12

13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20

22
23
24
25

APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL 
On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
WAYNE B. KENDALL, P.C.
WAYNE B. KENDALL, ESQ.

1611 White Way, Suite 4 
East Point, Georgia 30344 
(770)778-8810 
(404) 228-2280 (Facsimile) 
wbkendall2@yahoo.com 

LDF
RYAN P. HAYGOOD, ESQ.
LEAH C. ADEN, ESQ.

99 Hudson Street, Suite 1600
New York, New York 10013
(212)965-2235
(212) 226-7592 (Facsimile)
rhaygood@naacpldf. org
laden@naacpldf.org

On behalf of the Defendants, Fayette County Board of 
Commissioners; Herb Frady, Chairperson, in his 
official capacity; Robert Horgan, Vice-Chairperson, 
in his official capacity; Lee Hearn, Commissioner, in 
his official capacity; Steve Brown, Commissioner, in 
his official capacity; and Allen McCarty,
Commissioner, in his official capacity; Fayette 
County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; Tom 
Sawyer, Department Head, in his official capacity:

STRICKLAND, BROCKINGTON, LEWIS, LLP 
FRANK B. STRICKLAND, ESQ.
BRYAN P. TYSON, ESQ.

Midtown Proscenium, Suite 2200 
1170 Peachtree Street, N.E.
Atlanta, Georgia 30309-7200
(678) 347-2203
(678) 347-2210 (Facsimile)
fbs@sbllaw.net
bpt@sbllaw.net

175
1 DEPOSITION OF STEPHEN BROWN
2 May 15,2012
3
4 (Reporter disclosure made pursuant to
5 Article 8.B. of the Rules and Regulations of the
6 Board of Court Reporting of the Judicial Council
7 of Georgia.)
8 (Plaintiffs’ Exhibits-31 through 35 were
9 marked for identification.)

10 CONTINUED EXAMINATION
11 BY-MR. KENDALL;
12 Q. Mr. Brown, I want to remind you that you
13 are still under oath, okay?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Yesterday when we left off we were talking
16 about recreational issues, we were talking about the
17 Kenwood Park situation. In fact, Alice Jones had
18 been instrumental in trying to secure funds for that.
19 We were also talking about the lack of activities
20 there.
21  And I wanted to, in that regard, kind of
22 start back with that and ask you; As far as you
23 know, what is the status of the initiatives that have
24 been made by you and others to start using that park
25 with more regularity, as far as you know?

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

mailto:wbkendall2@yahoo.com
mailto:laden@naacpldf.org
mailto:fbs@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net
http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 17 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN - Volume II_______________________________ May 15, 2012
184 186

1 A. 1 don't. 1 do know there is a -- there's x which is, you know, two years.
2 an organization, Sons of the Confederacy or something 2 Q. Is this proclamation for Confederate
3 of that nature, that's in the county. And they 3 history month done on an annual basis?
4 practice a lot of Confederate history and things of 4 A. 1 have no idea.
5 that nature. 5 Q. Has it been done in the two years that you
6 But 1 will say 1 don't think that 6 were -
7 necessarily reflects the position of the board, even 7 A. No.
8 though i wasn't on the board at that time, because 1 8 Q. -- period of time that you've been -
9 do know that almost any organization can come forward 9 A. 1 don't believe so. 1 don't recall it.

10 and have a proclamation put before the county 10 Q. All right.
11 commission. It's routine. 11 A. And last year, just to let you know, too,
12 Q. So this is generated by an outside group; 12 1 did participate in the MLK Day festivities
13 is that what you are saying? 13 sponsored by the NAACP. And 1 spoke at that
14 A. Correct. 14 presentation.
15 Q. Have you ever known the county to have a 15 Q. Which presentation was that?
16 similar presentation of proclamation for Martin 16 A. It was the Martin Luther King Day
17 Luther King's birthday? 17 celebration and parade at the --
18 A. We did in Peachtree City every year 1 was 18 Q. Sams Auditorium?
19 in the city government. We do have a Black History 19 A. At Sams Auditorium.
20 Month recognition as well. 20 Q. You spoke?
21 Q. In Peachtree City? 21 A. Yes, on behalf of the County.
22 A. Yeah. Well, in Peachtree City, but in the 22 Q. Have you ever attended the NAACP dinner in
23 county as well. 1 do know that the library sponsors 23 October?
24 a multicultural program on MLK or 1 should say the 24 A. Many times.
25 month of Black History Month. 25 Q. Have you spoken at that?

185 187
1 Q. The library? 1 A. I've given some proclamations. And that
2 A. Which is a Fayette County entity. 2 was as a representative of Peachtree City, obviously.
3 Q. Okay. But that's run by a different 3 Q. Were you there last year?
4 organization than the County? 4 A. 1 couldn't make it. 1 had a schedule
5 A. No. It's -- 5 conflict.
6 Q. Well, 1 mean, it's got a library director, 6 Q. Did you know that all the county
7 and -  it's not a part of the county commission per 7 commissioners were invited and none attended last
8 se? 8 year?
9 A. Well, it is. It's under the direct 9 A. 1 would say that’s not uncommon. All the

10 report - 10 events we are invited to, rarely is there more than
11 Q. It's funded by the County, but it's not 11 one person. And generally I'm that one person.
12 run by the County; is that right? 12 Q. Let me give you what we have marked as
13 A. It is. It's run -- well, no, it's run -- 13 Exhibit Number 35. And if you would look over on the
14 that library is totally run by the County. We are a 14 second page under Public Comment.
15 part of the Flint River library system, but that's 15 MR. STRICKLAND: Let's identify what it is
16 just merely a book exchange and some other services 16 before he gets to that.
17 that are provided by the State. But all of those 17 MR. KENDALL: Thank you, Frank. This is a
18 employees are County employees on our payroll out of 18 set of minutes from the Board of Commissioners
19 the general fund. 19 dated November 10th, 2011.
20 Q. Okay. What I'm asking you about now, when 20 THE WITNESS: And I'm sorry, what are we
21 1 mention about Martin Luther King's birthday, I'm 21 referring to?
22 talking about the county commission itself. Have you 22 Q. (By Mr. Kendall) Page 2, bottom of the
23 had any sort of a proclamation or recognition of 23 page, under Public Comment.
24 Martin Luther King's birthday? 24 A. Okay. Yes, I've read it.
25 A. Not since I've been on the commission, 25 Q. You were on the board at the time that

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 18 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN - Volume II _________________________ May 15, 2012
192 194

1 I'm assuming you are talking about changes to the 1 of a voice of what's going on in that park and
2 charter -- 2 actually get the neighbors in that area involved,
3 Q. Yes. 3 which has not been done with any park ever in Fayette
4 A. -  charter changes? You would have to do 4 County.
5 that through the State. 5 So I'm trying to create a process where
6 Q. So that would take an action of the 6 you have probably the highest level of local input in
7 General Assembly? 7 terms of the people living in that general area in
8 A. Correct. 8 terms of what they want to see in that park. So it's
9 Q. Is Representative Virgil Fludd a resident 9 specifically tailored to what it is they want. And

10 of Fayette County - 10 you know, as that group finds its way through and
11 A. To my knowledge he is. 11 they start coming up with some of these items that
12 Q. -- to your knowledge? There has been some 12 they want to implement, we will start looking at it.
13 discussion about county parks and in particular 13 The parking lot was one of the big things
14 Kenwood Park. In your opinion how does Kenwood Park 14 they were asking for immediately. There were some
15 compare with other parks in the county in terms of 15 fencing issues that we put in, some fencing issues.
16 the amenities and options available for citizens in 16 two years ago, 1 believe it was, that -  1 think we
17 that park? 17 finished the funding last year for that. Security
18 A. Well, 1 think you need to look at the 18 has been an issue, so we've looked at closing the
19 history of the Fayette County recreation system, to 19 park up at the beginning. There's a gate at the
20 take a look back, when you are doing that comparison. 20 front now so we don’t allow people on there during --
21 For example, Kiwanis Park, which is a nice, fully 21 it's open dawn to dusk. So we try to keep people off
22 furnished park was not built by the City, it was 22 the park grounds in the evening to enhance the
23 built by the Kiwanis Club, and they later turned it 23 security.
24 over to the City so that they could have the 24 So we have tried to take care of some of
25 maintenance -- incur the maintenance cost and 25 the immediate needs that they have and we want to

193 195
1 whatnot. That land and all of those operations were 1 give them the ultimate voice in what happens in their
2 run by the Kiwanis Club for years because there was 2 park.
3 no county recreation program. 3 Q. How about --1 don't know whether you ever
4 So you've got some parks that look like 4 got to -- the point of the original question was how
5 they are readily established parks, but they were 5 Kenwood -- the amenities at Kenwood, how do those
6 established by organizations other than the County. 6 amenities and options for citizens compare to other
7 On a cost basis, you know, Kedron [sic], 7 parks in Fayette County?
8 it was quite an expense in terms of the land 8 A. 1 would say they are compatible. 1 mean,
9 acquisition, the implementation of Phase 1. 9 in terms of the track, we don't have a track on any

10 We'll be actually adding another parking 10 other area so that's an amenity they have that the
11 section coming up this summer to accommodate the 11 others don't.
12 parking. 12 They want to try to do some youth sports.
13 MR. KENDALL: You said Kedron. Did you 13 And as part of the discussion in the deposition from
14 mean Kenwood? 14 yesterday, 1 explained that youth sports
15 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. There is Kedron 15 organizations are not created by the County
16 in Peachtree City and Kenwood in north Fayette. 16 government themselves. You have to have parents come
17 I’m sorry. My Peachtree City Mayor days are 17 forward who are willing to participate under the
18 coming back. 1 can't get that out of my head. 18 auspices of these either national or state youth
19 Q. (By Mr. Strickland) But you are talking 19 associations and create that level of sports. And we
20 about Kenwood Park right now? 20 need the parents to come forward.
21 A. I'm sorry. I'm talking about Kenwood. My 21 The tennis courts are just as nice as any
22 apologies. But we are actively working with the 22 tennis courts in the county. The basketball courts
23 Kenwood neighbors surrounding that through the North 23 are used continuously. And in the summer they are
24 Fayette Homeowners Association, and we’re creating an 24 used until the marshal's deputies run everybody out
25 association of 501(c)(3) non-profit to give them more 25 because it's too dark to play.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-6 Filed 10/04/12 Page 19 of 19

STEPHEN BROWN - Volume II_______________________________ May 15, 2012
196 198

1 So in terms of the quality of the 1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 pavilions and the walking trails and the sports 2

3 athletic facilities that we have, 1 would say they 3 STATE OF GEORGIA:
4 rival anything in the county. 4 COUNTY OF FULTON:
5 Q. is it a regular item on the county 5

6 commission's agenda to have public comments? 6 1 hereby certify that the foregoing
7 A. It is. 7 transcript was taken down, as stated in the
8 Q. At each meeting? 8 caption, and the questions and answers thereto
9 A. Yes. 9 were reduced to typewriting under my direction;

10 Q. How often does the commission meet? 10 that the foregoing pages 172 through 197
11 A. On the meetings where we allow public 11 represent a true, complete, and correct
12 comment, it's two Thursdays every month. There's a 12 transcript o f the evidence given upon said
13 workshop meeting, but there's no public comment at 13 hearing, and I further certify th a t! am not of
14 the workshop meeting. 14 kin or counsel to the parties in the case: am
15 Q. And 1 take it, is there any action taken 15 not in the regular employ of counsel for any of
16 at a workshop meeting? 16 said parties; nor am I in anywise interested in
17 A. Rarely. There may be something that we 17 the result of said case.
18 need to have an emergency action on or something like 18 This, the 18th day of May, 2012.
19 that, and that will be announced to the media at the 19

20 time. 2 0

21 Q. Is it the case that a federal court 2 1 SUSAN M. PITTS, CCR-B-1806
22 recently changed the three residency districts to 2 2

23 five residency districts? 23

24 A. That is correct. 24

25 Q. Okay. That's all we have. 2 5

197 199

1 MR. STRICKLAND: Anything else? 2 COURT REPORTER DISCLOSURE

2 MR. KENDALL: No, nothing else. Pursuant to Article 10.B. of the Rules and
3 (Deposition concluded at 12:40 p.m.) 4 Regulations of the Board of Court Reporting of the 

Judicial Council of Georgia which states: "Each court
4 (Pursuant to Rule 30(e) of the Federal 5 reporter shall tender a disclosure form at the time
5 Rules of Civil Procedure and/or O.C.G.A. 9-11-30(e), 6

of the taking of the deposition stating the 
arrangements made for the reporting services of the

6 signature of the witness has been reserved.) certified court reporter, by the certified court
7

7 reporter, the court reporter's employer, or the 
referral source for the deposition, with any party to

8 the litigation, counsel to the parties or other
entity. Such form shall be attached to the

9 9 deposition transcript," I make the following 
disclosure:

10

11
10

I am a Georgia Certified Court Reporter. I am
11 here as a representative of Esquire Deposition

12 Solutions. Esquire Deposition Solutions was
13

14

12

13

contacted to provide court reporting services for the 
deposition. Esquire Deposition Solutions will not be 
taking this deposition under any contract that is 
prohibited by O.C.G.A. 9-11-28 (c).

15

1 6

14
Esquire Deposition Solutions has no

15 contract/agreement to provide reporting services with 
any party to the case, any counsel in the case, or17

16 any reporter or reporting agency from whom a referral
1 8 might have been made to cover this deposition.
1 9

17 Esquire Deposition Solutions will charge its usual 
and customary rates to all parties in the case, and a

2 0 18 financial discount will not be given to any party to 
this litigation.

2 1 19

2 2 20
21

23 SUSAN M. PITTS, CCR-B-1806
24 23

2 5 24
25

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 1 of 15

EXHIBIT E

Cited Excerpts of Deposition of Terence Clark



Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 2 of 15

Terence Clark_______ ____________________________________ June 6, 2012
1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 

NEWNAN DIVISION

GEORGIA STATE CONFERENCE 
OF THE NAACP; FAYETTE
COUNTY BRANCH NAACP; HENRY CIVIL ACTION 
ADAMS; TERENCE CLARK; FILE NO.
ALICE JONES, JOHN E. 3:11-CV-00123-TCB
JONES; DAN LOWRY; ALI
ABDUR-RAHMAN; AISHA
ABDUR-RAHMAN; LELIA
RICHARDSON; ELVERTA
WILLIAMS; and BONNIE LEE
WRIGHT,

Plaintiffs, 
vs.

FAYETTE COUNTY BOARD OF 
COMMISSIONERS, et al.,

Defendants.

DEPOSITION OF 

TERENCE CLARK 

11:08 a .m .

June 6, 2012
140 Stonewall Avenue, West 

Fayetteville, Georgia

Susan M. Pitts, CCR-B-1806, RPR

3
1 INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS
2 Examination Page
3 Examination by Mr. Tyson 5
4 Examination by Ms. Aden 88
5 Further Examination by Mr. Tyson 91
6 Further Exam ination by Ms. Aden 93
7

INDEX TO EXHIBITS
9

Exhibit Description Page
10
11 1 Verification 80
1 2  1A P la in tiffs 'R esponses to Defendant

Fayette County Board ot "Commissioners'
13 First Interrogatories to Plaintiffs 80
14 2 Com plain! 25”  
is  3 P la in tiffs 'R esponses to Defendant

Fayette County Board of
1 6  C om m issioners 'F irst Request for 

Production of Documents 87
17

4 Map 77
18
19 (Original Exhibits 1 through 4 have been 

attached to the original transcript.)
2 0 
21 
22
23
24
25

2
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
2 On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
3 LDF

RYAN P. HAYGOOD, ESQ.
4 LEAH C. ADEN, ESQ.

99 Hudson Street, Suite 1600
5 New York, New York 10013 

(212) 965-2235
6 (212) 226-7592 (Facsimile) 

rhaygood@naacpldf.org
7 laden@naacpldf.org
8

On behalf of the Defendants, Fayette County Board of 
9 Commissioners; Herb Frady, Chairperson, in his 

official capacity; Robert Horgan, Vice-Chairperson,
10 in his official capacity; Lee Hearn, Commissioner, in 

his official capacity; Steve Brown, Commissioner, in
11 his official capacity; and Allen McCarty,

Commissioner, in his official capacity; Fayette
12 County Board of Elections and Voter Registration; Tom 

Sawyer, Department Head, in his official capacity:
13

STRICKLAND, BROCKINGTON, LEWIS, LLP
14 ANNE W. LEWIS, ESQ.

BRYAN P. TYSON, ESQ.
15 Midtown Proscenium, Suite 2200 

1170 Peachtree Street, N.E.
1 6 Atlanta, Georgia 30309-7200 

(678) 347-2203
17 (678) 347-2210 (Facsimile) 

awl@sbllaw.net
18 bpt@sbllaw.net
19
20 
21 
22
23
24
25

4
1 DEPOSITION OF TERENCE CLARK
2 June 6, 2012
3 (Reporter disclosure made pursuant to
4 Article 8.B. of the Rules and Regulations of the
5 Board of Court Reporting of the Judicial Council
6 of Georgia.)
7 (Exhibits 1 through 4 were marked for
8 identification.)
9 MR. TYSON: Well, this will be the

10 deposition of Terence Clark taken by defendants
11 Fayette County Board of Commissioners, Herb
12 Frady, Robert Horgan, Lee Hearn, Steve Brown,
13 Allen McCarty, the Fayette County Board of
14 Elections and Voter Registration and Tom Sawyer,
15 who are collectively referred to in this
16 litigation as the county defendants, for the
17 purposes of discovery and all purposes allowed
18 under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and
19 the Federal Rules of Evidence.
20 And all objections, except those going to
21 the form of the question and the responsiveness
22 of the answer, are reserved until the first use
23 of the deposition. And is that agreeable to you,
24 Ms. Aden?
25 MS. ADEN: It is.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 ,495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

mailto:rhaygood@naacpldf.org
mailto:laden@naacpldf.org
mailto:awl@sbllaw.net
mailto:bpt@sbllaw.net
http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 3 of 15

Terence C l a r k _______________________June 6, 2 012
5

1 MR. TYSON: Have you discussed signature?
2 MS. ADEN: Yes. We request that he be
3 allowed to read and review the deposition.
4 MR. TYSON: Okay. Request to read and 
s sign. Please swear the witness, please.
6 TERENCE CLARK, having been first duly sworn
7 was examined and testified as follows:
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY-MR. TYSON:

10 Q. Mr. Clark, my name is Bryan Tyson. We met
11 a moment ago. And 1, along with Anne Lewis from our
12 office, represent the county defendants in this case.
13 And our goal today in your deposition is to just get
14 some information from you about your case against the
15 County. My goal is not to try to confuse you--
16 A. Sure.
17 Q. ~ or ask you trick questions along the
18 way. 1 do have a tendency to ask very long
19 questions.
2 0 A. Okay.
21 Q. So if 1 ask you a question, if at the end
22 you have no idea what I've said -
23 A. Sure.
24 Q. ~ let me know that, and I'll rephrase it.
2 5 A. Okay.

7
1 T-e-r-e-n-c-e.
2 Q. And you go by Terry; is that correct?
3 A. Terry is fine.
4 Q. Okay. What's your home address?
5 A. 205 North Drive, Fayetteville, Georgia
6 30214.
7 Q. And how long have you lived in Fayette
8 County?
9 A. Since'93, so that's 19 years.

10 Q. And where did you live before you moved to
11 Fayette County?
12 A. New York.
13 Q. What part of New York?
14 A. When 1 moved, 1 was in Manhattan, yeah.
15 Grew up in Brooklyn.
1 6 Q. So have you lived anywhere else besides
17 New York and Fayette County, Georgia?
18 A. New Jersey, way before that.
19 Q. All right. Maybe we should go
20 chronologically. S o '93 you moved to Fayette County.
21 How long were you in New York before '93?
22 A. Okay. That gets tricky because 1 moved
2 3 between New York and New Jersey several times.
24 Q. Oh, okay.
25 A. I'm talking 30 years ago.

6
1 Q. 1 also warned Ms. Pitts, 1 do have a
2 tendency to get going and talk fast.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. So if you need me to slow down, just wave
5 your hand, that'll be good. For the court reporter's
6 sake, it's best that you speak clearly and speak up,
7 and also that you use "yes" and "no" instead of
8 "uh-huh” or "huh-uh” or nodding your head. We can't
9 see that on the transcript. It would be best for her

10 sake.
11 If you need a break at any point, let me
12 know. 1 don't think we're going to be here too long,
13 but 1 only request that you answer the last question
14 1 asked before we take a break, and then we can take
15 a break after that.
16 A. Okay.
17 MR. TYSON: And 1 would just state for the
1 8 record as well that the Board of Education was
1 9 notified about the deposition but is not present.
2 0 All right, then.
21 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) Mr. Clark, first of all,
22 what we do is, there's going to be some background 
2 3 questions basically to get some history from you.
24 Can you please state your full name for us, please?
25 A. Sure. Terence Clark. That's one R.

8
1 Q. Yeah. Okay.
2 A. Long time.
3 Q. So somewhere from 1 guess '80s through
4 '90s, you lived between New York and New Jersey?
5 A. Yes. Yes. My wife went to school in New
6 Jersey, and we lived there for a while, and we moved
7 back. 1 was born in New Jersey and grew up in
8 Brooklyn. So New Jersey and New York residency went
9 back and forth.

10 Q. And then you grew up in that area prior to
1 1  starting that back and forth; is that right? Did you
12 live anywhere prior to —
13 A. No.
14 Q. No. Okay. Have you ever given your
1 5 deposition before?
16 A. Not that 1 remember.
17 Q. Okay. And have you ever testified at
18 trial before?
1 $ A. No.
2 0 Q. Have you ever been party in a lawsuit 
21 before?
2 2 A. Party in a lawsuit? Car accident case.
23 Actually, it was my wife's car accident case, so
24 nothing -  nothing significant.
25 Q. Right. And then do you remember

ESQUIRE
■ > £ ? o :■ i t i a n sol u ■ > o o s

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-Q 0123 -TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 4 of 15

Terence Clark __________________________________ June 6, 2 012
25

1 Q. So I'm going to hand you — go a little
2 bit out of order and hand you what's been marked as
3 Exhibit 2 previously and ask you if you've seen that
4 document before?
5 A. Is this the initial complaint?
6 Q. Should be, yes.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. See if you've seen it before?
9 A. Yes, 1 have.

10 Q. Okay. And do you remember when you first
11 saw this document?
12 A. No.
13 Q, Have you ever read the entire complaint?
14 A. When 1 first saw it, 1 looked at it, yeah.
15 1 did read it.
i s  Q. Okay. And do you know if that was before
17 the case was filed or after?
18 A. I'm sure it was before. 1 mean, well, let
19 me — let me -- this specific document like this, 1
2 0 can't pinpoint exactly when 1 saw this. Obviously,
21 there was discussion of the contents prior to it
22 being filed.
2 3 Q. And probably drafts?
24 A. Possibly, yeah. But 1 can tell you our 
2 5 attorneys have been very good at making sure we

27
1 honest with you.
2 1 was eager to get on the record and happy
3 that this, you know, sort of opportunity came along,
4 that there were other people that really wanted to do
5 this. But for me, that was really my main concern.
6 Am 1 going to put my name on a document, and, you
7 know, somebody going to see that and all of a sudden
8 my taxes go up or something, you know.
9 Q. You mentioned that you said the problems

10 were well-known. What problems are you referring to
11 there?
12 A. Well, the biggest problem was dealing with
13 the whole park issue. And, 1 mean, Alice is much
14 more well versed in that. She's been the
15 standard-bearer for that, but we wanted that for a
16 longtime. We wanted something.
17 And then we kind of got the park, and then
18 it was sort of like a trojan horse kind of thing.
19 That’s probably not a good example. But, you know,
20 you kind of get it, and then you don't get it. You
21 know, there were problems with it. We got this big
22 track in the middle of it. Who in the hell wanted a
23 track? 1 mean, 1 don't know who made the decisions
24 on what was going to be in the park. But, you know,
25 you're so happy to finally get something.

26
1 review and see everything. Have to print out a lot
2 of stuff.
3 MS. ADEN: Yes. Thanks to him.
4 MR. HAYGOOD: Sorry.
5 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) Mr. Clark, when
6 Mr. Kendall first contacted you and told you about
7 the case, what were the points that interested you
8 about this case?
9 A. Well, 1 mean the issues involved orlhe,

10 you know, some of the problems were not — 1 mean, 
n  those were well-known. It wasn't like, hey, this or
12 that.
13 What 1 was more interested in — 1 guess,
14 two things 1 was really more interested in: One, if
15 we had a case; and two, you know, are there going to
16 be any repercussions because 1, you know, 1 own
17 businesses in Fayette County.
18 S o l mean 1 have -  1 also have a hospice
19 business right around the corner. So my wife's
2 0 practice is around the corner. So that w a s - - that
21 was really a main concern for me because it's a very
22 tight-knit community. You don't live in Fayette
23 County. 1 don't know. It's a very tight-knit -  in
24 some ways you're kind of stepping back in time,
25 but — so that was really my main concern, to be

28
1 You travel around the county, and you see
2 where things are located, and we weren't getting
3 anything in north Fayette. So that kind of was a bit
4 of a double-edged sword. 1 mean, all of a sudden
5 things are not getting improved, things are not
6 getting maintained. The balance of the park -  the
7 park was never completed. So it was almost like,
8 okay, here, shut up, we will throw you something and
9 leave us alone kind of thing.

10 And then we had, you know, just general
11 service issues. 1 mean, there was a sinkhole in
12 Woodbridge. My brother-in-law lives in Woodbridge.
13 And when 1 say "a sinkhole," 1 mean it’s a two-lane
14 — it's a two-way street, and you could not drive
15 around it. It was the width of the two lanes, and it
16 was on a hill. It was a massive -  just, 1 mean, a
17 truck literally -  a semi could fit in it, and it
18 wasn’t even blocked off for months. 1 mean, there
19 was no -  there was no guardrail or tape or anything
20 around this thing for months.
21  Q. Well, if 1 can, let me -
22 A. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
23 Q. 1 don't want to cut you off.
24 A. 1 can ramble too, unfortunately. I'm sure
25 I’m making you more nervous with the rambling.

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 5 of 15

Terence Clark___________________________________________ June 6, 2012
29 31

1 Q. 1 just want to walk through some of the 1 Q. So what would you define as "northern
2 problems you've identified here. 2 Fayette County"?
3 A. Well, you know, let me just finish up. So 3 A. 1 mean, it's parts of Fairbum, north
4 back to your point. 4 Fayette -- North Fayetteville, 1 guess 1 should say,
5 Q. Sure. 5 maybe some parts of Tyrone. Just kind of, you
6 A. When Wayne -  when we first started 6 know -- probably have to look at a map, but — and
7 talking, there was no question of is there an issue. 7 I'm not sure 1 would cut off north Fayette because
8 Do we have complaints? Do we have concerns? That 8 there was a change. There were parts of Fairbum
9 was just -- these are the things that we talked 9 that are now Fayetteville. So it's kind of changed a

10 about. So that was nothing new. For me, really, it 10 little bit. But 1 guess pretty much that area, yeah.
11 was just trying to figure out, one, do we have a 11 See, we're right up against the county
12 case; and two, is it safe for me to do this. 12 line. After Holyfield's property, you're in Clayton
13 Q. All right. Let me walk through this then. 13 County. So that's why they refer to it as north —
14 You said obviously -- you said your biggest problem 14 north Fayette.
15 was the park issue. And you said, "We wanted that." 15 Q. And so what you’re saying, then, is that
16 Who are you referring the "we” to in that? 16 in north Fayette County, that the population is
17 A. 1 mean everybody. 1 mean, it's -  you 17 overwhelmingly or almost exclusively
18 know, it's close-knit. 1 mean, you talk about stuff. 18 African-American?
19 you know. My daughters have to go all the way to 19 A. Probably not exclusively. 1 wouldn't say
20 Peachtree City, 40 minutes from my house, to play 20 that. But primarily, yeah.
21 tennis basically. 1 mean, the amenities are just not 21 Q. So you said that the park was a big
22 there, you know. 22 problem. You said there is a track in the middle of
23 Q. And so when you talk about everybody in 23 it. Do you know how the planning process for the
24 the community is very close-knit, are you talking 24 park occurred?
25 people in all races, white, black, Latinos, everybody 25 A. No. Alice knew more about that. And when

30 32
1 is in agreement about this? 1 1 say a big problem, you've got to realize we were so
2 A. 1 wouldn’t say all races. 1 mean, 1 — 2 happy to get it. You know what 1 mean? So we were
3 it's sort of, 1 don't want to use the word 3 really happy to get it because it took so long to get
4 "segregation," but there are no white people in our 4 it. And certain people really worked hard over a
5 subdivision, but that's by choice. 1 mean, that's 5 long period of time to get it. And so 1 guess more
6 not . . . 6 of a disappointment. Maybe "disappointment" is a
7 Q. And so the — 7 better word than "problem," particularly when it
8 A. It's on odd county. 1 mean, if you look 8 started to get run down a little bit. And you know,
9 at it, it's really separate. You know, it's kind of 9 we have some tennis courts in there. And 1 don't

10 -- Fayetteville is kind of in the middle where 10 even know if we asked for basketball courts. They've
11 everybody kind of meets. But certain parts of the 11 got basketball courts. I'm sure the older
12 county — 1 don't even know the percentages -- are 12 community -  the older folks didn't want basketball
13 overwhelmingly white and certain parts of north 13 courts, you know.
14 Fayette is overwhelmingly black. It's just developed 14 Q. You said there's tennis courts in Kenwood
15 like that over time. 15 Park?
16 Q. So when you're referring earlier to the 16 A. Uh-huh.
17 close-knit community and all of that, are you 17 Q. So -- but your daughters go to Peachtree
18 referring then to the black community in your 18 City to play tennis?
19 subdivision? 19 A. Well, that was -
20 A. Yes. Not just subdivision, just people 20 Q. Why wouldn't they use the ones in Kenwood
21 you know. It's not just -- definitely not just 21 Park?
22 Northridge. 22 A. Well, that was before the park.
23 Q. And so would it be the black community in 23 Q. Oh, okay.
24 northern Fayette County? 24 A. Yeah. They go over there now, but their
25 A. Yeah. Yeah. 25 coaches in — one of their coaches is in -- one of

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-0G 123-TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 6 of 15

Terence Clark ___  ___ __  _____June 6, 2 012
33 35

l  her coaches is still in Peachtree City. l  County about it?
2 Q. Okay. So your daughters could use the 2 A. 1 don't know directly, no.
3 tennis courts in Kenwood Park instead of Peachtree 3 Q. Okay. Do you know whether the County
4 City? 4 addressed the issues related to lights and cleaning
5 A. Yes, and they do from time to time. 5 up the park?
6 Uh-huh. 6 A. I'm not sure. Not that I've seen,
7 Q. Do you remember approximately how long you 7 b u t. . .
8 were aware of an effort to establish Kenwood Park? 8 Q. When was the last time you went to
9 A. Oh, boy. 1 don't know exactly. It's a - 9 Kenwood Park?

10 it was a long time. And 1 don't know if it started 10 A. It's been a while actually. It's probably
l l  out asking for a park. 1 don't know if it was just n  been a couple of months since I've been in there.
12 asking for some amenities, and it developed into a 12 Q. Do your daughters go there regularly at
13 park. I'm just not sure. 13 all?
14 Q. Do you know how many parks Fayette County 14 A. Not regularly, no. 1 mean, they go -
IS  operates, the county itself? 15 because they have lessons. It's really one who
16 A. 1 don't know. They have a lot of parks. 16 really has the lessons. My wife plays, too. So when
17 Q. Do you know if those are city parks or 17 they have spare time, they go over there.
18 county parks? 18 Q. They will use the Kenwood Park facility?
19 A. Pmnotsure. I’mnotsure. The tennis 19 A. Uh-huh.
2 0 facility I'm not even sure if it's a city park or 20 Q. Okay. Let me ask you about the service
21 not. 21 issues you identified here, the sinkhole in
22 Q. Tennis facility in Peachtree City? 22 Woodbridge. H ow --1 know you said a semi would fit
23 A. Yeah. There is an aquatic center, and 23 in it. I mean, are we talking about that it was 10,
2 4 there's a lot of stuff. 24 20 feet deep? How deep was the sinkhole?
2 5 Q. Do you know if Ms. Jones was involved in 2 5 A. I can 't- - 1 don't know exactly how deep

34 36
l  helping design the park? l  it was, because you really -- you were nervous about
2 A. 1 don't know. I'm sure she voiced her 2 getting even close to look at it. 1 mean, after a
3 concerns, but whether she — 1 would be very doubtful 3 while, there was like little tape, little police tape
4 that she was involved, but 1 don't know for sure. 4 around it. But, I mean, at night, you couldn't see
5 Q. Then on the maintenance issue, you said it 5 anything. 1 mean, this is in a subdivision. This is
6 started to get run down. What maintenance issues 6 in a -  keep in mind, this is inside of a
7 were problematic at Kenwood Park after it was 7 subdivision. So there are houses like, you know —
8 established? 8 but 1 don't know exactly how long it took them to fix
9 A. Just there's no lights. Just, you know, 9 that, but probably about a year. 1 mean, it

10 keeping it clean and that kind of stuff. See half of 10 literally was a long time to get that thing -  and
l l  it — 1 don't even know if it's half, maybe more than 1 1  people would call, and they were told, you know,
12 half is still undeveloped. I'm not sure of the exact 12 they're working on it, they're working on it.
13 proportion. So you keep an area undeveloped for a 13 Q. Who do you know that called?
14 period of time, it, you know, starts to look bad. 14 A. My brother-in-law called, and the people
15 Q. Did you ever contact anyone at the county 15 in that subdivision called.
16 about the lights or the overgrown — keeping it 16 Q. What's your brother-in-law's name?
17 clean? 17 A. Ramone Burke, B-u-r-k-e.
18 A. 1 didn't, but 1 know people have. 18 Q. Okay. Besides Mr. Burke, do you know
19 Q. Okay. 19 anybody else in the subdivision who called?
2 0 A. Yeah. 20 A. No.
21 Q. Who do you know who has? 21 Q. When did you first see that sinkhole?
22 A. Probably Alice, but 1 know people have 22 A. It’s been a while. This might be like two
23 voiced concerns about it. 23 years ago, yeah.
24 Q. But besides Ms. Jones, you're not sure of 24 Q. But it's fixed today?
25 anyone else who’s voiced concerns or contacted the 25 A. Uh-huh.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

w ww.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 7 of 15

Terence Clark _____________ June 6 , 2 012
37

1 Q. So besides the park issue and this
2 sinkhole issue in Woodbridge, were there any other
3 problems that motivated you to file this lawsuit?
4 A. 1 mean, there was like a water issue, but
5 I'm not sure if that was a county -  1 don't know who
6 had jurisdiction over that. But there was like from
7 time to time you'd get this heavy metal smell in your
8 water, sometimes even -  what's that? Phosphorus? 1
9 can't think of the odor. Phosphorus or something.

10 MS. ADEN: Iron?
11 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
12 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) Did you ever contact
1 3 anyone at the county about that water problem?
14 A. We called one time about that. It would
15 come and go.
16 Q. When you say "we," you and your wife?
17 A. No. She didn't call.
18 Q. She didn't call. You called?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And what answer did you get?
21 A. They're working on it. We'll check it 
2 2 out.
2 3 Q. And did the problem go away?
24 A. We haven't actually had that problem in a 
2 5 while, but it had stopped for periods of time before.

39
1 is you wanted to make it -  make sure it was safe to
2 put your name on this case?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. What made you feel like it was safe to do
5 that?
6 A. Actually, 1 guess, you know, talking to
7 Wayne and his feeling or his -- obviously, it was my
8 decision to make. But he kind of felt that if there
9 were repercussions, they would probably be more 

10 directed at him rather than at the individual
n  plaintiffs.
12 Q. And that was enough assurance for you to
13 move forward?
14 A. Yeah. 1 guess, yeah.
15 Q. And you also were convinced that you had a
16 case?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. And did you come to that conclusion before
19 you hired Mr. Kendall and the NAACP as your lawyers?
20 A. Probably, yeah.
21 Q. Okay. And what did you base having a case
22 on?
23 A. Well, 1 mean we talked a little bit about
24 the population percentages, which we didn't have
25 specifics at that time, 1 don't think, when 1 was

38
1 But you wouldn't -- you get a little nervous about
2 even putting it on your face, you know. It was kind
3 of strong. When it was strong, it was strong.
4 Q. You're not sure if it was a county issue
5 or not?
6 A. Yeah, I'm not sure if that was a county
7 issue or not.
8 Q. So besides the -- let's go back. You said
9 the park issue, the sinkhole issue, and this

1 o potential water issue. Is there anything else that
11 motivated you?
12 A. Those are probably the main things.
13 Q. Okay. Are there any o ther-
14 A. Obviously, there are other problems, but 1
15 wouldn't necessarily say they were unusual. Street
16 lights going out and stuff like that. 1 guess that
17 can happen anywhere, so . . .
18 Q. Okay. Any other maintenance-type issues
19 like street lights?
2 0 A. N o th ing tha tlcan th inko f.no .
21 Q. So sitting here today, you can't think of .
22 any others?
23 A. Particular to that area, 1 can't think of
24 anything right now.
2 5 Q. And you said your — one of your concerns

40
1 talking to him, and the — I'm trying to remember
2 now. 1 know we talked about the percentages. And
3 you know, to be honest with you, 1 wasn’t -  1 wasn't
4 aware that there had never been a black on the
5 boards. 1 knew there hadn't been one since 1 was
6 here, but 1 didn't know -  1 was really shocked.
7 Q. When you say "on the board," you mean on
8 the board of commissioners and board of education?
9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So Mr. Kendall told you about that? 
n  A. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to realize, you
12 know, black people deal with that all the time, you
13 know. MillerS Martin has been around 138 years, and
14 1 was the first black partner. That's not a credit.
15 That's not a check in my column, the way 1 look at
16 it. That illustrates a problem.
17 So when 1 hear stuff like that, it's like,
18 it's a problem. You know, there's never been a
19 qualified person, you know? That's how you sort of
20 look at It. Are you telling me there has never been
21 a black attorney that could make partner here?
22 So that's — when 1 hear that, I'm like,
23 okay, you mean to tell me there's never been a black
24 candidate qualified to be on this board? So that
25 definitely interested me.

DFPCS ! T I ON S O!  U I SONS

Toll Free; 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile; 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 8 of 15

Terence Clark____________________________________________June 6, 2 012
41 43

l  Q. In this determination prior to you i  A. Services. And you need someone to voice
2 retaining an attorney to bring this case, the 2 your concerns. That's kind of the -  that one seat
3 population percentages were a part of that, the fact 3 gives you a voice, doesn't give you a majority,
4 that the lack of an elected black official to the 4 bu t. . .
5 board of education and the — 5 Q. So you believe that a district voting
6 A. Right. 6 system would be the solution to these problems that
7 Q. -  board of commissioners. Was there 7 you’ve identified?
8 anything else that helped confirm for you that you 8 A. It would help.
9 had a case? 9 Q. Help?

10 A. Well, Wayne was well versed in this stuff, io  A. Yeah. Again, you have to realize you're
l l  so that, you know -  1 mean, I've known Wayne a long l l  dealing with -  excuse me. 1 hate to put it in
12 time, but we've never really --1 didn’t know his 12 racial terms, you're dealing with a black person. So
13 history with these types of things. So 1 was 13 we're used -  we're used to being the only guy in the
14 impressed by that also. 14 room. We know what that means. You can be one seat
15 Q. Do you know, what is his history with 15 at the table and make a difference. So that's just
16 these kind of things? 16 from our, you know, from our — from my experience,
17 A. 1 think he's been involved in cases like 17 from my background, it helps. You're not going to
18 this before. 18 win every vote. You're just not. You can't. But
19 Q. Other Section 2 cases? 19 having that voice really helps.
20 A. I'm not sure exactly if they're Section 2, 20 Q. Mr. Clark, have you ever been prohibited
21 b u t. . . 21 from registering to vote based on your race?
22 Q. Personal assurances and his familiarity-- 22 A. No.
23 A. Not assurances. B u t- - he didn't give me 23 Q. Have you ever been prohibited in any way
24 assurances, but just the fact that he was well versed 24 from participating in the political process based on
25 in the issues. 2 5 your race?

42 44
l  Q. Okay. Anything else that helped you l  A. No.
2 confirm that you had a case, or are those the main 2 Q. Are you familiar with the term "racially
3 things? 3 polarized voting"?
4 A. Not really. 1 mean, 1 started looking 4 A. Why don't you explain it?
5 more when 1 saw the income disparity -  not the 5 Q. Well, first, before 1 explain it, do you
6 income disparity, but the -  just kind of the income 6 have any idea what it might mean?
7 levels in north Fayette, the fact that we're paying 7 A. No.
8 just as much in taxes as anybody else. You know this 8 Q. Okay. So generally the term is used to
9 wasn't rich neighborhood/poor neighborhood-type 9 refer to a situation where white voters vote for

10 distinction. So it — you know, as more facts just io  white candidates, and black voters vote for black
11  kind of came up, 1 was like, wow, this is worse than n  candidates.
12 1 thought. 12 A. Okay.
13 Q. More facts on the disparity between white 13 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge about
14 and black — 14 any racial polarization voting that's occurred in
15 A. Yeah. 15 Fayette County since you've been here?
16 Q. — people in Fayette County? 16 A. Yeah. 1 mean . . ,
17 A. Yeah. Just more of the disparities and 17 Q. Can you give me some examples?
1 8 the fact that we're paying our fair share of taxes, 18 A. Let me make sure 1 understand.. So
1 9 but we're not getting our fair share of benefits. 19 examples of whites voting for white candidates only,
2 0 Q. And the fair share of benefits would be — 2 0 and blacks voting for black candidates?
21 involves the park issue? 21 Q. Yes.
22 A. Yeah. Amenities. 22 A. Okay. Well, don't the facts bear that
23 Q. The sinkhole? 2 3 out? 1 mean, don't statistics bear that out?
24 A. Yeah. 24 Q. Well, I'm asking about your personal
25 Q. Okay. 2 5 knowledge, if you know personally of any situations

Toll Free: 8 0 0 .211 .DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 9 of 15

Terence Clark June 6, 2012
45 47

l  that's occurred? i  that for breakfast.
2 A. No. 1 mean, no individual person has said 2 Q. Do you know if Hispanic voters in Fayette
3 to me I'm only going to vote for a white candidate or 3 County generally favor one race of candidates over
4 black candidate. It's n o t. . . 4 another?
5 Q. Do you know of any elections where that 5 A. In Fayette County, I'm not sure. 1 think
6 has taken place, where you're personally aware of a 6 it depends on where, you know, where they're from.
7 situation where black voters have voted for black 7 Cubans, they vote one way, and Mexicans may vote
8 candidates and white voters voted for white 8 another way.
9 candidates? 9 Q. But you have no personal knowledge for

10 A. Well, 1 mean, again, looking at the 10 Fayette County; is that correct?
l l  results of the elections, no individual person has n  A. No.
12 told me that, but you look at the results of the 12 Q. In your opinion and based on what you've
13 elections, and I'm not sure what other conclusion you 13 seen over your time in Fayette County, do black
14 can come away with. There has never been a black 14 voters in the county generally vote for Democratic
15 person get elected. If any of the white voters were 15 candidates?
16 voting for black candidates, 1 think we would have 16 A. 1 believe so.
17 seen one at some point. 1 don’t know. 17 Q. Have you ever looked at or studied what
18 Q. Do you know how many black candidates have 18 the black turnout in Fayette County is?
19 run for county office since you've been in the 19 A. The turnout? No. What is it?
2 0 county? 20 Q. The number of registered voters --
21 A. Since I've been here? No, I'm not sure. 21 A. Do you know what the turnout is?
22 Q. Do you remember any-- 22 Q. 1 don't know offhand.
2 3 A. Five. Maybe, five. 23 A. I'm just curious. 1 don't either. That's
24 Q. Five? 24 a curious number. Turnout is low everywhere, 1
2 5 A. 1 mean, 1 hate to even give a number 25 guess.

46 48
i  because I'm totally guessing. l  Q. You are aware that Fayette County uses a
2 Q. Maybe we could do it this way. 2 majority vote requirement in its elections; is that
3 A. Yeah. 3 right?
4 Q. Do you know for the, let me just start, 4 A. Yeah.
5 for the 2010 election for county commissioners if any 5 Q. Do you think a majority vote requirement
6 black candidates ran for county commission? 6 is discriminatory to African-Americans in Fayette
7 A. Specific in '10, I'd have to look. 7 County?
8 Q. Okay. And would that be true o f '08 and 8 A. is that the same as at-large?
9 '06? 9 Q. Majority vote requirement is just that a

10 A. Yes. 10 candidate has to get 50 percent plus 1 to win -
l l  Q. Just don’t know? 1 1  A. Else you have a runoff?
12 A. Yeah. 12 Q. -  or else there is a runoff.
13 Q. Okay. So is it accurate to say that your 13 A. Okay. Do 1 think that's discriminatory?
14 belief that racial polarization in voting occurs in 14 That's a good question. Let's see. Yeah, 1 guess
15 Fayette County is based on the fact that no black 15 that could be. i mean, based on the fact that you
16 individual has ever been elected to county office? 16 have an at-large system, the chance of a black
17 A. Yeah, and just, you know, just history. 1 17 candidate coming in first or second is still reduced,
18 mean that, you know . . . 18 I guess. Never thought about it that way, but, yeah.
19 Q. But not any statistical studies or any 19 Q. So is it accurate, then, that you would
2 o other things you're aware of relating to this topic? 20 favor a system where a commissioner could be elected
21 A. What I'm aware of? No. 1 know studies 21 with less than half the support of the district of
22 have been done, but 1 haven't looked at them. 22 the county in which they live?
2 3 Q. Okay. And do you know what those studies 23 A. Well, are we in the current at-large
24 were or who might have done them? 24 system or are we in the district?
25 A. Oh, 1 don't know. I'm sure pollsters do 25 Q. I'm just referring generally to a majority

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta Street 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 ;ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 10 of 15

Terence Clark June 6, 2012
49

1 vote requirement currently. Whether we're in an
2 at-large or a district system —
3 A. My answer might be different because, you
4 know, if we're in district voting, the chance that
5 our two runoff candidates would both be black, that
6 might be more open to it than in an at-large system
7 where chances are that's not going to be the case.
8 Q. So would it be accurate to say, then, you
9 beiieve the majority vote requirement hinders

1 0  African-Americans in an at-large system, but would
11 not hinder them in Fayette County in a district
1 2  system?
13 A. Less of a chance of hindering, yeah.
14 Q. Less of a chance? 
is  A. Yes.
1 6  Q. Do you know what an "anti-single shot"
17 provision is?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you know if Fayette County uses any
20  practice or procedure in voting that discriminates
2 1  against a —
22  A. Do you want to tell me what that is,
23  because I might know what it is and just didn't know
24 the name of it?
2 5 Q. Oh, sure. It's basically a provision ~

51
1 know if Fayette County currently uses any voting
2 practice or procedure that discriminates a minority
3 group?
4 A. Discriminates? Putting aside the main
5 issue we're talking about, the at-large voting?
6 Q. So at-large voting you would say is
7 discriminatory?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Okay. Besides at-large voting, is there 

10 any other voting practice or procedure that
n  discriminates against a minority group in Fayette
12 County?
13 A. I'm not sure where they are with the
14 whole, you know, ID, identification requirements, I
15 don't know if that's hit Georgia yet. I'm sure it's
16 somewhere in the legislature. But in every way you
17 deal with the same, you know, the policemen at the
18 polling stations and kind of craziness that goes on,
19 but nothing specific, no.
20 Q. So you don’t know if Fayette County uses
21  an ID requirement currently?
22 A. I mean, there is an ID requirement. But
23 whether they've got the requirement that you have -
24 because I think they passed it, and then it got held
25 up. I'm not sure. The requirement of a new ~

50 52
1 an "anti-single shot” provision is a -- is a
2 provision that requires you to fill out your entire
3 ballot in order for the ballot to be counted. So it
4 doesn't allow you to skip races if you don't want to
5 vote?
6 A. They have that? That's horrible.
7 Q. I'm asking you. That's -- do you know if
8 it uses it, if Fayette County uses it currently?
9 A. Do they use that? That's really horrible.

10 Q. You don't know if Fayette County currently
11 uses that system?
12 A. I hope not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. Because sometimes, I mean, if you don't
15 recognize the names of the candidate, you just move
16 on, right? I don't like anything that kind of
17 hinders your ability to cast your vote.
18 Q. I understand.
19 A. Does Fayette have that? I hope not.
20 Okay. I may have done that before. I don't know.
21  Q. We don't have th a t—
22 A. Does anybody know? I hope not.
23 Q. I don't -  we'll leave it aside for now.
24 A. Okay.
2 5 Q. We can take a look at it later. Do you

1 everyone has to go get a new form of ID , picture ID ,

2 I don't know if that's actually in operation yet.
3 Q. So you don't know that. And you mentioned
4 policemen at the polling station. You don't know —
5 does Fayette County use that practice currently?
6 A. Everybody uses that.
7 Q. And is that a discriminatory practice?
8 A . Y e a h , o f  c o u rs e .

9 Q. And so have you -- which precincts have
10 you --
1 1  A . O k a y .

12 Q. — witnessed policemen at the precincts
13 and which elections?
14 A. Every election. There is always a police 
is  car and policeman.
16 Q. So which voting precinct do you live in?
17 A. I don't know the number.
18 Q. D o  y o u  have a name?
19 A. Olivet. Olivet Baptist Church.
2 0 Q. Olivet Baptist. And so it’s your
21  testimony that at every election where you've ever
22 voted at Mount Olivet, there has been a policeman.
23 A. I don't like to say absolutes like that.
24 Q. Okay. Well, can you give me some specific 
2 5 recollection where that has happened?

Toll Free: 800 .211 .DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 11 of 15

Terence Clark____________________  _________________  June 6, 2012
57 59

1 A. Right. 1 or procedure that has the effect o f discriminating
2 Q. — but you assume that's accurate; is that 2 against a minority group that you are personally
3 right? 3 aware of?
4 A. Well, 1 guess the way you phrase it, it's 4 A. That could potentially be discriminatory?
5 as if I'm making an affirmative statement that 5 Q. That is discriminatory.
6 they're doing it intentionally to discriminate. And 6 A. That is discriminatory, but not saying
7 1 don't want to make that statement, 1 guess is what 7 that they are doing it intentionally?
8 I'm trying to say. 1 don't want to say for a fact 8 Q. Well, you said you don't know what's in
9 that Fayette County is doing this to hinder voting. 9 their mind. I'm asking you about what's the effect.

10 1 don’t want to say that for a fact. 10 A. Oh, the effect of it?
11 Q. Let me ask you this. 11 Q. Yes.
12 A. So 1 just want to make sure you 12 A. 1 think the effect of it could be
13 understand, I'm just making a statement that — that 13 discriminatory. Yeah. Sure.
14 it does happen. Whether that presence is there to do 14 Q. And the effect o f what, what other
15 legitimate things and just -- 1 can't say what’s in 15 practices?
16 their minds. But 1 can only say from my perspective, 16 A. Well, the one 1 mentioned with having
17 as a minority person, that those are things 1 -- now, 17 police at polling stations.
18 you may not notice that if you go up and you see - 18 Q. Okay. But you can't remember a specific
19 okay, but that's something 1 would notice, so . . . 19 instance where that's occurred?
20 Q. Let me ask the question this way. Maybe 20 A. Well, 1 know I've seen it. 1 can't tell
21 this will clarify where we're having a little 21 you exactly which election, yeah.
22 confusion here. Do you know — is Fayette County 22 Q. Do you know if there is currently a
23 currently using any voting practice or procedure that 23 candidate slating process in Fayette County, a
24 is designed to intentionally discriminate against a 24 process where —
25 minority group? 25 A. I'm sure.

58 60
1 A. 1 don't want to say intentionally. 1 Q. -  you vote by a slate instead for any
2 Q. So the answer is no? 2 individuals.
3 A. Yes, the answer would be no. 3 A. Oh, voting for a slate, I'm not sure.
4 Q. Okay. And do you know or — 4 Q. Mr. Clark, you obviously moved to Fayette
5 MR. HAYGOOD: Well, just to clarify, 1 5 County as an adult.
6 think the answer is: Fie doesn't know -- 6 A. Yeah.
7 THE WITNESS: Right. 7 Q. Based on the people you know and your
8 MR HAYGOOD: — what's in their mind. 8 experience in the county, do you know if most
9 THE WITNESS: Right. Exactly. Yeah. 9 African-Americans who currently live in the county

10 MR. HAYGOOD: You asked if Fayette County 10 grew up in Fayette County, were born here, or did
11 is using any practices or procedures that are 11 they move here as adults?
12 intentionally discriminatory. And 1 think what 12 MR. HAYGOOD: I would just say 1 don't
13 he testified to is that he does not know what’s 13 know that he can say what most
14 in their mind -- 14 African-Americans --
15 THE WITNESS: Right. 15 MR. TYSON: I’m asking him just about his
16 MR. HAYGOOD: — but the effect of these 16 personal experience.
17 practices is that — 17 THE WITNESS: My pool of experience would
18 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) Well, before we go farther 18 be so limited that 1 don’t know if 1 could
19 than that — so clarify your answer. You don't know 19 extrapolate from that to make a statement like
20 what was in the mind of Fayette County — 20 that. 1 know — 1 do know people who were born
21 A. Yeah. 21 here and stayed here, and 1 do know people who've
22 Q. -- is that correct? 22 moved here from elsewhere and so . . .
23 A. Yeah. Yeah. 23 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) People who've moved here
24 Q. Okay. Let me ask it — let me ask this: 24 from elsewhere, do you know why they moved to Fayette
25 Does Fayette County currently use any voting practice 25 County?

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 .495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.corn

http://www.esquiresolutions.corn


Case 3.11-CV-00123-TCB Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 12 of 15

Terence Clark ___________________________________________June 6, 2012
61 63

l  A. Just different reasons, 1 don't know. l  A. I’m one of you, you know.
2 Q. Why did you move to Fayette County? 2 Q. If candidates make racial appeals all the
3 A. 1 only had really two friends in Georgia, 3 time, what specific racial appeals have you seen in
4 and one lived close by, so . . . 4 Fayette County elections?
S He was a real estate agent, and he took us 5 A. 1 can't really point to anything.
6 around. We didn't even look at other neighborhoods 6 Q. No specific examples come to mind?
7 really. 7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you know of anyone that has moved here 8 Q. 1 think you said this already, but you
9 because of the educational system in Fayette County? 9 don't know how many African-Americans have run for

10 A. Yeah. It has the reputation of having a 10 office in Fayette County; is that right?
l i  good educational system. But my older daughter went l l  A. No. There have been a handful, yeah. You
12 to the public school for one year, and we did not 12 said run for office or just for these two boards?
13 find it to be as good as what we were told, which 13 Q. Actually, for any office, let's broaden
14 that’s just personal. 14 it.
15 Q. And so she attended private school after 15 A. There have been a few.
is  that? 16 Q. Okay. And a few meaning less than 10?
17 A. Yeah. 17 A. Probably more than 10, 1 would guess.
18 Q. What were the reasons -  why was it not as 18 We've had a judge or two, 1 think.
19 good as you were told? Was it academic? 19 Q. So do you know how many African-Americans
2 0 A. Academic, yeah. 20 have been elected to public office in Fayette County?
21 Q. Okay. 21 A. 1 don't have an exact number, no.
22 A. 1 mean she was- - she was assigned to read 2 2 Q. Do you know Representative Virgil Fludd?
23 a book, Secret Garden as a matter of fact. This is 23 A. Uh-huh.
24 years ago, obviously. And she explained to the 24 Q. Is that a yes?
25 teacher that she had already read the book and had 2 5 A. Yes. I'm sorry.

62 64
l  seen the play on Broadway and could he assign her a i  Q. And has — he's been elected in Fayette
2 different book. And they were like, no — 1 mean, 2 County; is that correct?
3 that was just one thing — you have to do this 3 A. Right.
4 assignment. And 1 just thought that was too rigid. 4 Q. Do you know how many times?
s Q. Are you aware of any current racial 5 A. I'm not sure exactly. Was he re-elected
6 discrimination in the educational system in Fayette 6 once? I'm not sure.
7 County? 7 Q. Does the minority community in Fayette
8 A. In terms of the students? 8 County have needs that are different from those of
9 Q. Anything you are aware of in the 9 the white community in Fayette County?

10 educational system? 10 A. 1 don't know if 1 would say needs, but
1 1  A. No. l i  there probably are some differences just in terms of,
12 Q. Mr. Clark, do you- - if 1 said the term 12 1 mean, in north Fayette we're not concerned about
13 "racial appeal" in a campaign, do you know what that 13 golf cart road rules or curb cuts for golf carts. 1
14 means? 14 mean, it's just, you know, 1 don't know if those are
15 A. But what d o -- 15 along the racial lines, b u t. . .
is  Q. Where a candidate makes a racial appeal. 16 Q. Are there regional differences within the
17 A. When a candidate makes a racial appeal? 17 county?
18 It could be a. lot of things. What are you getting 18 A. Yeah. Yeah.
19 at? 19 Q. And so sitting here today, you can't think
20 Q. Well, 1 - 20 of any needs of the minority community in Fayette
21 A. 1 mean, candidates make racial appeals all 21 that are different than those of white residents?
22 the time, don't they? 22 A. Needs? 1 mean, 1 kind of — 1 don't know.
23 Q. Let me ask this then: If candidates-- 23 That's kind of an insult in a way, 1 think. 1 mean,
24 A. I’m one of you. 24 it’s — everybody wants, you know, a safe
25 Q. - - make racial appeals all the tim e-- 25 neighborhood, police protection. 1 think we

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 M arietta S treet 
A tlan ta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 13 of 15

Terence C l a r k ________________________________June 6, 2012
65

1 generally want the same things for our families. And
2 1 mean the differences — 1 don't think the
3 differences would be along racial lines in terms of
4 what your concerns are, off the top of my head
5 anyway.
6 Q. Would it be accurate to say that a lot of
7 the different needs in different parts of Fayette
8 County relate to where people live as opposed to what
9 their race is? is that a better way to say it?

10 A. 1 mean, it could be where they live; it
11 could be the age of their population, you know, if
12 they have a lot of kids, have more seniors, that type
13 of stuff.
14 Q. And that's all true regardless of race,
15 correct?
16 A. Yeah, 1 think so.
17 Q. Obviously, in this lawsuit you're asking
18 that the court get rid of at-large voting in Fayette
1 9 County?
2 0 A. Right.
21 Q. Do you know if the Fayette County
22 Commission has the power to change its method of
23 election on its own from at-large to district voting?
24 A. Do they have the power? ! mean, 1 believe
25 they do. Are you- - is this like the legislature

67
1 time --
2 A. Schmoozer.
3 Q. — 1 understand.
4 A. I'm not a good schmoozer.
5 Q. Mr. Clark, 1 wanted to ask you a couple of
6 questions about the expert reports that were filed in
7 this case. Have you read the report of William
8 Cooper or Richard Engstrom?
9 A. 1 have not actually looked at the expert 

10 reports, no.
n  Q. Okay. Have you ever talked to William
12 Cooper?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Ever talked to Richard Engstrom?
15 A. No.
16 Q. One of your experts says that people in
17 Tyrone have the same political interests as those
18 that live in Fayetteville. What are those interests?
19 A. Same political interests? I mean, limited
20 to political interests is what we're saying? 1
21 m ean--
22 Q. Yes. That was one of the specific things.
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. Yes.
25 A. Because 1 mean 1 think it's maybe a little

66
1 question kind of?
2 Q. I'm just asking if you know if they have
3 the power themselves or do they have to ask somebody
4 else?
5 A. Okay. 1 mean, 1 believe they do. 1 guess
6 that's my answer.
7 Q. Okay. Mr. Clark, did you ever appear
8 before the Fayette County Commission and ask that
9 they move to district voting?

10 A. No.
11 Q. Have you ever made any public statements
1 2 prior to the filing of this lawsuit that you want the
13 county to move to district voting?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you currently serve on any board or
16 commission that is appointed by the Fayette Board of
17 Commissioners?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Ever applied to serve on any board or
20 commission appointed by the board of commissioners?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Ever wanted to do that, ever been 
2 3 interested?
24 A. No. I'm not cut out for that.
25 Q. Somebody having worked in politics a long

68
1 broader than that. 1 mean, 1 think they have the
2 same interests. Now, whether to accomplish those
3 interests, you need to have the same political
4 interests, 1 guess that would follow,
5 Q. And when you say the same — "they have
6 the same interests," are you referring to kind of
7 your general statement earlier about safe schools,
8 safe neighborhoods, those types of things, or what
9 specifically are the same interests that Tyrone and

10 Fayetteville have?
11 A. Well, i mean, not to say the whole county
12 of Tyrone and Fayette, but 1 guess more the point is
13 that the interest being that there's someone voicing
14 your concerns, there's someone being responsive to
15 your needs, representative of your community.
16 1 don't think that is a, you know, a
17 geographic break when you're talking about things
18 like that. You have to understand, the result might
19 be the same, okay, at the end of the day. But
2 0 knowing that there's someone at the table that is
21 speaking for you is very important.
22 Q. And so the same interests, the people who
23 live in Tyrone and people who live in Fayetteville,
24 really this interest is their support of a
25 district-voting system; is that accurate?

E p  0

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404 ,495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta, GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123-TCB  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 14 of 15

Terence Clark____________________________________________June 6, 2 012
73 75

1 A. Firsthand, no. Just looking at the kind l  organizations as those in Fayetteville. Do you know
2 of history, so .. . 2 what organizations those are?
3 Q. When you say "the kind of history," are 3 A. No.
4 you referring to the racial composition of the board 4 Q. One of your experts also said that people
5 of commissioners? 5 who live in Tyrone attend the same schools as people
6 A. No. Just kind of how things have 6 in Fayetteville. Do you know what schools those are?
7 happened, you know. 7 A. 1 couldn't name them, no.
8 Q. Well, 1 guess what I’m trying to 8 Q. And you live, 1 think you said, in the
9 understand is when you say "how things have happened, 9 Northbridge [sic] subdivision; is that right?

10 what the history is," are you saying a lack of 10 A. Uh-huh.
1 1  responsiveness to north Fayette or — l l  Q. Do you shop for groceries for your family
12 A. Getting a track, you know, a racetrack in 12 in that general vicinity, or do you travel to
13 the middle of the park, who in the hell made that 13 Fayetteville or Tyrone for that?
14 decision? 14 A. Usually Fayetteville.
15 Q. But you said earlier, 1 think, you don't 15 Q. Would you ever go to Tyrone to buy
16 know who was involved in planning? 16 groceries?
17 A. Right, 1 don't. 17 A. For groceries, probably not. 1 mean.
is  Q. Okay. 18 Fayetteville is kind of the central kind of shopping
19 A. 1 don't. Well, I'm sure it was the 19 area. I don't think we have anything in north
20 commission, 1 mean. 2 0 Fayette actually. We don't have any supermarket, now
21 Q. If it was Ms. -  if Ms. Jones played a 21 that 1 think about it. 1 just thought about that.
22 role in that too, would that be relevant? 22 It's the next project.
2 3 A. Asking for the track? 23 Q. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. A development
24 Q. Uh-huh. 2 4 opportunity.
2 5 A. I'd be surprised, but maybe. 25 A. Yeah.

74 76
l  Q. But would that be relevant to you? l  Q. So going back -- going back to Kenwood
2 A. 1 guess that would be relevant. 2 Park just for one moment.
3 Q. Okay. 3 A. Yes.
4 A. That would be relevant. She wasn't 4 Q. When was the last time you personally were
5 necessarily a representative of -  an official 5 at Kenwood Park? 1 can't remember if you told me
6 representative, but maybe she was in a way. 6 that.
7 Q. And so let me get back to some of the 7 A. It's probably been a few months. 1 mean,
8 other things your expert has said. One of your 8 my wife and daughter have been there more than I've
9 experts have said that people who live in Tyrone 9 been there.

10 attend the same churches as people in Fayetteville. 10 Q. And your wife and daughter use it fairly
1 1  Which churches are those? l l  regularly?
12 A. 1 can't name the churches. But, again, 12 A. No. No. Not regularly. Particularly
13 it's -  that's a segregation, by choice. 1 don't 13 during school, probably not. But during the summer,
1 4 know if that is the right way to say it. 14 they'll go over there.
15 Q. Well, I'm not asking about any particular is  Q. Where do your daughters attend school?
16 racial community. I’m asking about people who are in 16 A. The two that are home go to Woodward.
17 Tyrone and people who are in Fayetteville. 17 Q. Woodward?
18 A. Right. 1 mean, people tend to congregate. 18 A. Yeah.
19 1 don’t see anything wrong with that, but -- people 19 Q. Do you know what the term "community of
20 of the same race. Some people travel. 20 interest" means?
21 Q. Do you attend church’ in Fayette County? 21  A. Community of interest?
22 A. No. My grandmother was a minister, so 1 22 Q. (Nods head.)
23 got a lot of church growing up. 23 A. No. Tell me. Is that what -  the experts
24 Q. One of your experts also said that people 24 used that term?
25 who live in Tyrone are members of the same civic 25 Q. No.

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsim ile: 404 .495 .0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com


Case 3 :ll-cv-00123 -TC B  Document 140-7 Filed 10/04/12 Page 15 of 15

Terence Clark _________  June 6, 2 012
77 79

1 A. Oh. 1 and Blackrock, or are you referring --

2 Q. It's a term that's used in re-districting 2 A. No. Down next to Fayetteville, so 1 can't

3 frequently - 3 remember looking at this one specifically.

4 A. Okay. 4 Q. So the area where it says Fayetteville

5 Q. -- so 1 didn't know if you knew that. 5 East and Jeff Davis --

6 A. Again, 1 might know what it means. 1 just 6 A. Yeah. And it's still like a little pink

7 don't know what it's called, so . . . 7 color?

8 Q. The definition of "community of interest" 8 Q. Yes.

9 is one of those things that lawyers like to talk 9 A. For some reason that's n o t . . .

10 about a lot. 10 Q. And so that looks like a little island to

11 A. Okay. All right. 11 you?

12 Q. I'll spare you that. 12 A. Yeah. For some reason, that's not --1

13 A. Okay. I'll leave that to my counsel. 13 don't remember that one.

14 Q. All right. Let me hand you what we've 14 Q. Okay. All right.

15 previously marked, and again, staying out of order of 15 A. Which map is this?

16 sequence, as Exhibit 4. 16 Q. We can get back to that. As 1 said, this

17 A. Yeah. 17 is the illustrative plan drawn by William Cooper. So

18 Q. Have you ever seen this map before? 18 if you -

19 A. I’ve seen several, so I'm not sure. This 19 A. Okay.

20 is -- this isn't our map. 20 Q. -- if you haven't seen it before, that's

21 Q. Well, this is a -- this is the 21 fine.

22 illustrative plan. I'll represent to you it was the 22 MR. HAYGOOD: 1 think you said you don't

23 illustrative plan drawn by William Cooper, your 23 remember seeing this.

24 expert for this litigation. 24 THE WITNESS: 1 don't. 1 don't.

25 A. Oh, it was? Okay. 25 MR. TYSON: Right.

78 80

1 Q. So you don't remember specifically seeing 1 THE WITNESS: Yeah, right.

2 this plan; is that right? 2 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) All right. We're finished

3 A. Let me think because they all look alike. 3 with that one. I'm going to hand you what we've

4 Q. Okay. 4 marked. I'm going to hand you Exhibits 1 and 1A, and

5 A. The dotted lines are what? 5 I'll first ask you about 1 A. Are those the

6 Q. Actually, the dotted lines are irrelevant. 6 interrogatory responses?
7 The dotted lines are the board of education plan. 7 A. Yes.
8 The color districts are what we’re looking at. 8 Q. Did she -- I'm sorry, finish my question.

9 A. Oh, okay. The color districts are what 9 Are these the interrogatory responses that were given

10 we're looking at. 10 in response to our request to the plaintiffs in this

11 Q. As far as you know, you've never seen this 11 litigation?
12 plan; is that accurate? 12 A. It looks like it, yes.
13 A. I'm trying to remember. For some reason, 13 Q. Okay. Did you assist in the preparation

14 1 thought ours was coming up this way a little bit, 14 of these responses?
15 wasn’t it (indicating)? 15 A. I mean, I didn’t type them, but the actual
16 Q. And if you -- the question for you, 16 words, yes.
17 Mr. Clark, is just - 17 Q. Okay. And Exhibit 1 you verified these
18 A. 1 can't remember. 18 responses; is that right?
19 Q. If you don't remember - 19 A. Yes.
20 A. Yeah, 1 don't remember. But for some 20 MS. ADEN: Can I ask for a second, this
21 reason there's something about this one that looks a 21 is --
22 little different. 1 don't remember this little 22 MR. TYSON: Can we go off the record for

23 island in here (indicating). 23 one second?
24 Q. When you say the "island,” are you 24

(Discussion ensued off the record.)
25 referring to the area where the label says Oak Ridge 1 25 Q. (By Mr. Tyson) Mr. Clark, I want to run

Toll Free: 800.211.DEPO 
Facsimile: 404.495.0766

2700 Centennial Tower 
101 Marietta S treet 
A tlanta , GA 30303 

www.esquiresolutions.com

http://www.esquiresolutions.com