Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 8

    IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND

SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al. :

vs. : Civil No. 16030

BERNARD J, SCHMIDT, iscommissioner
of Police of Baltimore City. :

January 28, 1965

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 
Volume 8

(Page 938 to page 1008 )

Francis T. Owens 
Official Reporter 
514 Post Office Bldg. 
Baltimore 2, Maryland



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I N J E X

Witness Direct Cross Redirect
LC. James J. Cadden 940
Elizabeth Tompkins 942
Regina Summers 954
Carol Sheppard 966
Lucinda Wallace 976 982 933
Violet Bond 985
Sharon L. Wallace 987
Corinthia Lankford 993

E X H I B I T S
Plaintiffs' No. Page
4 947



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939

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND

SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al.

vs.

BERNARD J. SCHMIDT, as COMMISSIONER 
of POLICE of BALTIMORE CITY

Civil No. 16080

Baltimore, Maryland 
Thursday, January 28, 1965

The above-entitled matter wss resumed for 
hearing before His Honor, Roszel C. Thomsen, Chief judge, at 
ten o'clock a.m.

A P P E A R A N C E S

(As heretofore noted.)



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PROCEEDINGS
m m m

LIEUTENANT JAMES J. CADDEN 
resumed the witness stand and testified further as follows:

THE CLERK: Lieutenant Cadden, you are still
under oath.

MR. NABRIT: No further questions of this
witness.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SAUSE:

Q Lieutenant, yesterday you indicated that you
understood that the procedure which you would follow in the 
future and the procedure that you would follow in the future 
would be much the same as that which was followed in these 
cases that you have testified about in Court and you heard ths 
other witnesses testify about.

Now, you are familiar, are you not, with the 
order of the Police Commissioner?

A Yes, sir, before any future inspections are
conducted you are to consult with your Captain and Inspector 
regarding same and be guided by their decisions in the matter.

Q And would you--I don't think this is anywhere 
else in the record--would you tell His Honor the effect of a 
general order such as that by the Commissioner?

568



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A Sir, as expressed to me by my Captain, no
future inspections are to be conducted without consulting the 
Inspector.

Q What is the effect of tiie general order by the
Commissioner? Is that binding upon all members of the 
Department? _

A Yes, sir.
MR. SAUSE: No further questions, Your Honor.
MR. NABRIT: No further questions.

(Witness excused.)

MR. NABRIT: If Your Honor please, at the end
of the day yesterday I understood Your Honor had requested a 
copy of the letter relating to the fugitive warrant.

MR. MURPHY: Lieutenant Glover is trying to
get a copy of the letter right now, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.
MR. SAUSE: If Your Honor please, that will be

the defendant's case at this time.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. SAUSE: Subject to anything that might

come up on rebuttal.
MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, we have several

rebuttal witnesses.
Miss Elizabeth Tompkins, please, take the stand



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ELIZABETH TOMPKINS
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
in rebuttal and, having been first duly sworn, was examined 
and testified as follows?

THE CLERK: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: My name is Elizabeth Tompkins.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Miss Tompkins, where do you live?
A 2416 Eutaw Place.
Q And are you one of the plaintiffs in this case?
A I am.
Q Are you a minister?
A Yes, I am.
Q Tell us about it?

MR. SAUSE: Oh, if Your Honor please, 1 don't
think that'8 necessary. I object to that.

Now, don't wave your hand in my face.
I object to that.
MR. NABRIT: I wanted to be heard.
THE COURT: You object to what?
MR. SAUSE: I object to this extraneous mater!

with regard to her professional background.
THE COURT: Overruled.

570



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BY MR. MABRIT:

943

Q Are you a minister of a church?
A I am.
Q What church?
A I'm now associated with Gillis Memorial Trinity

Church.
Q Formerly a minister of another church?
A Formerly a minister of Mount Olive Baptist

Church, 1323 Mount Avenue.
THE COURT: Mount Olive?
THE WITNESS: Mount Olive.
THE COURT: Baptist Church?
THE WITNESS: Spiritual Baptist Church, and

pastor for twenty years.
THE COURT: And now it's Gillis Memorial

Community Church.
THE WITNESS: That's right, it's Gillis

Memorial Community Church at Calhoun and Mulberry Street.
THE COURT: Is that an independent church or

is it associated with any denomination?
THE WITNESS: Well, it's a comuunity Christian

church. It's a conference. It's called the Community 
Christian Church Conference. My pastor is Reverend Theodore 
Gasby.

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q You are associate minister?
A I am an associate minister.
Q But at the previous church you were minister?
A Yes, I was.
Q And have you received any licenses from the City

of Baltimore?
A Yes, I am registered at the Court House.
Q You're a foster mother?
A I am a foster mother, licensed foster mother

for the Department of Public Welfare. I have been for fifteen
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years.
Q Now, do you have a nephew that lives in the

house with you?
A Yes, I have a nephew.
Q What is his name?
A His name if Arthur Rayner.
Q Were you here when he testified in court?
A I was.
Q Now, something happened to him since then.

Tell the Judge about it?
A Well, since the--

MR. MURPHY: I object to that, Your Honor.
MR. NABRIT: This is to show the unavailabilit:

of a special rebuttal witness.
THE COURT: Well, we'll take it subject to

x\\

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exception. I don't know what it is. You can tell me if 
you know the fact or--

MR. NABRIT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Or she can testify to it.
MR. NABRIT: All right.
THE COURT: If he is unavailable and you would

have called him otherwise, you can tell me of course.
MR. NABRIT: If it please the Court, the day

that witness testified in this court, that night at four 
o'clock in the morning he was taken to the hospital and was 
kept until they finished that day, and the following Monday 
he was again taken to the hospital and has been there ever 
since and is still there.

THE COURT: At the time he testified we knew

about that.
MR. NABRIT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And we fixed the time, I believe,

in order to enable him to get to the hospital as we thought 
he might have to, didn't we?

We discussed it, as I recall it, to be sure he 
would be able to testify before he went.

All right. That explains his unavailability.
MR. SAUSE: It explains his unavailability,

Your Honor, and the testimony was that he was sick and 
complained about his condition the night the house was

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searched.

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THE COURT: Yes.
And there was a discussion about

946

MR. SAUSE: 
the man's illness.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Is that correct, Miss Tompkins?
A Yes, that'8 correct.
Q Now, do you remember the occasion when the police

came to your house?
A I do.
Q When was that?
A That was on December 27th at about one a.m. in

the morning.
Q Now, I'm going to show you a piece of paper wit̂ i

some drawings on it. Can you tell us, do you know what that 
is?

A This is a drawing that my son-in-law made of our
first floor.

Q
A

Q
A
Q
A

Q

And what*8 the next page?
And this is, this is the second floor.
And--
This is the third floor. This is his apartmen|t 
And what'8 his name?
His name is Walter Summers.
Is he related— what's his wife's name?

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A His wife's name is Regina Summers.
Q Have you studied that, looked at it, this

drawing?
A Yes, 1 have studied it. This—
Q 1 mean,have you looked at it?
A Yes, yes, perfectly.
Q Does it generally represent the arrangement of

the rooms in your house?
A It does, yes.

MR. HABRIT: May it please the Court, I move
that this be introduced in evidence as a plaintiffs3 exhibit.

MR. MURPHY: No objection.
THE CLERK: Marked in evidence.

(Diagrams above referred to were marked 
Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 4.)

THE COURT: Let me just take a quick look at i
How wide is it? How wide is the house?
THE WITNESS: Oh, oh, oh, it's about, oh, it's

almost as wide as, you know, a small house would be, the 
original house it would, that would be about the width, the 
original hou6e-and-a-half. It's a very wide house.

THE COURT: I didn't know whether there was
some stairway there. It's certainly an unusually wide row 
house.

THE WITNESS: Yes, it is. 574



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THE COURT: All right.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Now, where were you that night when the police
came?

A Well, 1 was in this hack room.
THE COURT: On the first floor?
THE WITNESS: On the first floor.

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q And who was in there with you?
A Well, may I explain?
Q Yes.
A Well, at this night, my husband worked sometime

at night, and of course, I had my four little girls, and I go
back into this room and lock this door and I don't have to 
come out until morning, and being in such a large house by 
myself I had taken my little girls and we went into the back

575room and locked ourselves in for the night.

948

Q All right. Now, describe to the Judge in your
own words what happened that night?

MR. MURPHY: I think this is rebuttal testimony
as I gather.

Your Honor.

MR. NABRIT: Yes, it is.
MR. SAUSE: Well, let's get to the rebuttal,

MR. NABRIT: Is there an objection to the



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question?

Mr. Nabrit/
MR. SAUSE: I strenuously object to the questio

Your Honor please, this is rebuttal, and it
isn't in the form of rebuttal, but it's in the form of direct\
testimony in the case in chief.

MR. NABRIT: If it please the Court, the defene
evidenced--

THE COURT: What is the question? I don't war
argument.

MR. MURPHY: He asked what happened that night,
Your Honor.

THE COURT: Objection overruled.
She can testify to what she knows. I gather 

she didn't come out of the room, according to the testimony, 
so that what happened that she would personally know would be 
relatively limited.
BY MR. NABRIT:
---- Q Go ahead and tell His Honor?

A Well, a knock came on my door at one s.m. after,
I was in the room, and a knock came at the door, and I could 
hear more than one person knocking.

THE COURT: You say more than one person
knocking?

THE WITNESS: You know, there are a lot of

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950
knocks, you know, on the door.

THE COURT: All right.
THE WITNESS: And then in awakening and

answering I heard someone say, "Aunt Lizzie, the police wante 
to see me," and at the same time someone else said, "Aunt 
Lizzie, this is the police."

Now, I opened my door which opens on to the hal 
The door doesn't come in the room. It opens out into the 
hall, and I saw an officer which explained to me that they 
were there to search the house.

THE COURT: Was that the Negro officer?
THE WITNESS: No, it wasn't, and he had on an

overcoat. As far as I could see it was a bulletproof vest 
over the top of it, and as he spoke to me, he told me they 
wanted to look around.

And of course as he looked around I was trying 
to get my gown down and make sure it was down at the same tim 
and he looked around, and he conversed with another officer, 
and they shined the searchlight around the room, and I told 
him there was nobody in Che room but me and the children.

And one said to the other, "It's no need of 
going in there because as you can see it's nobody in there 
but her and the children."

Then they told me to go back to bed, which 1 
didn't go back to bed, but I closed my door and locked--they

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told me that the killers that heard, that the killers had com< 
that way, and after hearing that I locked myself back in the 
room; but I didn't go back to bed.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Did you ask them anything?
A No, I didn't ask them anything because when the;

told me that the killers had came that way knowing, you know, 
that they were fugitives out, I simply locked myself back in 
the room.

And then, as far as I could see there was 
officers one behind the other, and some had large shotguns, 
and some had regular police uniforms and long blue overcoats. 
I think they were the ones with the white hats on, as far as 
1 could see were officers.

THE COURT: Where did you see them?
THE WITNESS: When I opened my door. See, th

hall goes right back to the dining roan, right straight back, 
you can see to the end of ray dining room, and that's as far a 
I could see because at the end of this hallway at the dining 
room is a wall.

I couldn't see into the reception hall.
THE COURT: And how many officers did you see?
THE WITNESS: Well, as far as I could see, I

really didn't, I really didn't take the time, you know, to 
count them because I said to them when they tell me the kllle

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had came that way, I asked them, "Are you here to protect us?" 
And they moved back Into the kitchen and laughed, and they 
never explained anything.

THE COURT: Did you see Oliver Welker?
MR. SAUSE: Walker?

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BY MR. NABRIT:
Q A Negro?
A I don't remember seeing him. Now, he could hav<s

been there.

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THE COURT: It began with a "W" didn't it?
MR. NABRIT: Walker.
THE COURT: Walker.
THE WITNESS: He could have been there but I

didn't see him because, see, the door opened, you know, back, 
and he could have been, stood behind the door. 1 wouldn't say 
he wasn't there.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Did the officers say anything to you about the
Veney8 or men named Veney?

A No, he did not say any--. If he had mentioned
the name of a Samuel Veney 1 could have told him right away 
about the Sauuel Veney that I know; but they didn't say 
anything to me about anybody's name.

They told me that tne killers had came that way, 
and the house being so big I was so sure that they were there

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to protect me, that I went back in the room, and I didn't come 
out, and I heard somebody come back on that floor.

Q Now, did any officers ask you that if it was
all right with you if they searched or anything like that?

A No, they told me that they were going to look
around while they were there, and of course, it was all right 
for me to say this if they knew the killers had come there, I, 
1 just didn't say anything either if they were going to look 
around while they were there.

Q Where do Regina's children ordinarily sleep?
A Now, her children-**
Q What floor?
A — sleep on the third floor. Now, this is a

very large room here (indicating).
Q Where is that in the house?
A On the third floor front. Now, she has, all

the children are small. The oldest one is five years old. 
She has four children.

Two of them are in little ounk beds, one on top 
of the other and the other is little twin beds that sits on 
an angle with the table between them, and her and her husband 
sleep in this little room over on this side (Indicating).

Q That'8 to the left of the front bedroom on the
third floor?

A That's right.
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HR. NABRIT: Your witness.

Thereupon

MR. MURFHY: No questions.
MR. NABRIT: Thank you, Mrs. Tompkins. 

(Witness excused.)

MR. NABRIT: Miss Regina Summers.

REGINA SUMMERS
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
in rebuttal and, having been previously duly sworn, was 
examined and testified as follows:

under oath.

THE CLERK: Resume the stand. You are still

State your name for the record.
THE WITNESS: Regina Summers.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Now, Regina, in your previous testimony you

testified to a number of things, and I'm not going to go over 
the things you testified about before except as it's necessar 
to explain the sequence of events.

Directing to a time when you first came down to 
the first floor and ask you to first point out where you were 
when you first came downstairs?

A When I first came down to the first floor I was

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955
on this landing on the staircase.

When I was standing here there was officers in 
this reception hall, and they had their guns pointed up towar 
this landing in here where I was standing, so I asked the 
question, what was wrong and why they were there.

I didn't get a reply, so I walked down from 
here and stood on the second step from the bottom in the 
reception hall, and 1 still asked why they were there, and I 
didn't get an answer.

So at this particular time--
Q What were the officers doing?
A Well, they were just standing there with their

guns and they was talking amongst themselves at this time, 
and from here which is the door leading from the kitchen intc 
the hallway I saw my cousin, Arthur Rayner, he was coming 
through the kitchen door with the police officers in the 
front of him and in the back of him, and an officer that was 
standing in the reception hall asked me who was upstairs, ant 
I told him there was no one up there but ray four children, 
and that they were asleep.

Q Now, all right, go ahead.
A So, one, one of the officers said, said who

was up there, and I told him who was up there.
So I was standing on the second step from the 

bottom, and a officer came over with a shotgun or rifle; I

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couldn't say what kind of a rifle it was, and he said, "Let's

go."
Well, 1 turned around and went back up the stepu, 

and I was followed by this officer with the shotgun and such 
other police officers that was walking in the back of him.

Q Now, prior to that time during, before you went
up the stairs, had any officer asked you for permission to go 
upstairs or if it was all right or anything like that?

A No one asked permission for anything because
when I asked why they were there and what was wrong I never 
got an answer from none of then.

The only time one of the officers talked to me 
was when he asked who was upstairs, and I told him my four 
children.

Q Now, you said--all right. Now, describe Who
went up those stairs first again?

A 1 went up the stairs first because the officer
with the rifle he came over towards the steps and he was 
followed by other officers, and he said, "Let's go."

So I just turned around on the steps and went
up.

THE COURT: Did one of the officers pass you
on the steps?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

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BY MR. NABRIT:
Q All right. Now, when you got to the second

floor what happened up there on the second floor?
A Well, when 1 got up to the second floor I stood

in the middle of the hall. The officers chat had came up 
behind me with the rifles, three went in towards this big 
bedroom.

Q Which bedroom is that?
A The front bedroom on the second floor. The

other officers went around this long hall.
It was two officers went into this small guest 

room on the first--I mean on the second floor. The third 
officer that went in there held the curtainB back while the 
two officers was in this room.

So he called out and asked where was the lights 
There was only a lamp light in the room, but I couldn't turn 
the light on; so he hollered out to the officer with the hand 
light they were carrying to bring it into the front room.

So then the officer with the light was in the 
hall. He handed the light in to the gentleman that was 
holding this curtain back, and he gave it to the officer in 
the guest room, and he proceeded looking underneath the bed 
and into these large cupboards.

So he took this gentleman that they handed the 
light into the room—

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MR. SAUSE: If Your Honor please, I object
again. This has been going on and on and on and on and this 
is not rebiittal at all.

THE COURT: Well, I don't think it's very much-f
it may be going oh but what difference does it make?

MR. SAUSE: Well, if Your Honor please, if the
Court has the time to sit and listen to this, we consider it 
to be improper testimony.

MR. NABRIT: It won't be much longer, Your
Honor.

THE COURT: Maybe we'll get to a point.
MR. NABRIT: All right, sir.
THE COURT: It's an empty guest room, and it

seems to me it doesn't make much difference.
MR. NABRIT: I'll try not to make it much

longer, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.

BY MR. NABRIT: ------
Q Now, Mrs. Summers, last time you said the

officers took you by the hand, and pick up right there and go 
on?

958

A Well, he took me by the hand and pulled me from
the front bedroom over into this middle room which is here 
(indicating) to turn on the light switch which was on this 
side of the wall.

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Q Mow, can you describe that officer?
A This was a tall officer, and he was in a unifoi

Well, after he had pulled me from here he took 
me and pushed me from out of this room, the middle room, 
around to the hall, and that's where Officer Walker was and 
three other police officers, and they were standing at this 
back door.

Q You're not pointing at it?
A I mean the back door to this bedroom here. I

was here into the hall. 1 didn't go no further than here.
THE COURT: Well, if an officer put his hands

on her when he shouldn't have she has her remedy. That is 
not what this suit is about if it is one incidental case in 
which that happened, and I don't see any use in elaborating 
on it.

MR. MABR1T: Well, may it please the Court--
THE COURT: Any use in elaborating on it.
MR. NABRIT: May it please the Court, a great

number of police officials testified to facts contradicted 
to this witness' testimony.

THE COURT: Well, maybe they're telling the
truth and maybe she's telling the truth; but it doesn't 
affect the principal issues in this case, and go ahead, let 
her go.

580



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BY MR. NABR1T:
Q Now, as best as you can tell in what summary

fashion what did you do next?
A Well, they asked why was this door locked.
Q Old you go somewhere?
A Yeah, 1 went down to get the key.
Q And what happened, what did you do?
A When I went down to get the key the officer had

said, "Hurry back," and when 1 got to the top of the second 
floor I was met at the steps by a white officer who took the 
key from me and went down to unlock the door In the second 
floor back.

Q Did you subsequently go to the third floor?
A Yes, 1 went to the third floor.
Q Now, will you describe how you happened to go

to the third floor, who went first, who went second, and so 
forth?

A Officer on the second floor said that he
thought X had said I said I live on the second floor.

1 told him no. They said they were going to 
check the second floor. So he said, "We'll go up on the 
third floor." Three officers went up to the third floor 
before me, and I was In the back of this gentleman, and I was 
followed by another gentleman In a long coat.

Q This Is going up to what floor?

587



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A From the second to the third floor.
Q All right. Now, when you got up to the third

floor, what did you see?
A When 1 got to the third floor three officers

was in the front bedroom where the children were sleeping.
Q Were your children there that night?
A Yes, my children were there that night. They

were asleep.
Q Now, what happened in there?
A Well, the children were asleep in bed, and this

police officer--
Q Hold it up a minute.

THE WITNESS: The police officer--
THE COURT: Oh, I understand it.
MR. NABRIT: All right.
THE COURT: I've seen the sketch.
MR. NABRIT: All right.
THE WITNESS: The police officer with the

searchlight went towards the bed where my oldest two children 
were, and he put the lights in there first, in their face 
first, and I asked him did he have to do this?

And he said yes because he wanted to make sure 
they were children and no one else.
BY MR. NABRIT: ~~~

Q Did you say anything else to them?



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THE COURT: Didn't she testify to this on

MR. NABRIT: Well, Your Honor, the point is
that when they give this they can also revoke it.

MR. MURPHY: There is no contrary testimony to
shining the light in the children's face.

MR. NABRIT: 1 beg your pardon. Your witness
testified that he saw no children in there. He testified to 
that.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Describe your conversation with the officers at
that point? \

A Well, after he said he had to do it I left the
large part of the bedroom and went into my room, and I was 
talking to the officer that had the long coat on, and he 
wsnted to know why I had a desk in the room, who used it and 
what was it used for, and I told him that my husband worked 
at Montgomery Ward and he was a display artist.

Q Did you subsequently, did you subsequently go
into another room?

A Yes, I went into the living room.
Q Point out where that is?
A This is the living room here (indicating).
Q Does it have a window?
A Yes, it has a large picture window.

589

962



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963

Q Point out where that window Is?
A Here's the window here (Indicating).

Q What Is outside that window?
A Outside that window Is a fire escape.

Q Describe what, If anything, you saw at that tlau
A At that time I saw a light at the back on the

window and I saw four police officers on the fire escape.

Q How far were you from them when you saw them?
A I was right at the window. There was nothing

in between me but the windows, and the Venetian blinds were 
open.

Q Now, can you give us just an Indication of how
far you were from these officers compared to something In the 
room here?

A Well, there's a radiator In between where the
step Is, and then the window coming up, I was just that close 
to see out of the Venetian blinds.

Q Now, what did you see?
A Well, I saw four officers, one going down the

long steps. There were about two on the landing waiting
their turn to go down the steps, and these other officers was 
coming down a long narrow flight of steps leading off from th
roof.

Q What was the light out there?
A The light that was out there I'm sure was from

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a police car or, 1 don't know, a truck or something.
Q Was It light or dark on that fire escape?
A It was very light on that £ire escape.
Q How do you know they were police?
A Because they all had guns, and they had, I

couldn't say whether they had—
THE COURT: Was there testimony that there may

have been someone on the roof?
MR. NABRIT: The testimony, Your Honor, was an

unequivocal denial there was anybody on the fire escape or a 
roof.

THE COURT: I thought somebody said there might
have been somebody that had gone on the roof.

Was it this house? There was some question
about it.

I thought it was Rosedale thatMR. MURPHY: 
they talked about it.

THE COURT:
the roof?

MR, MURPHY: 
THE COURT:

It was Rosedale that they were on

Yes, sir.
I remember that there was one houst 

that they said that they had been on the roof, and I have 
forgotten whether this was it or not.

MR. NABRIT: Your Honor will recall thi6 was
the house where there was testimony that the policeman was in

5P1



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965
the back alley, and he said he watched the roo£ and saw 
nobody in the back.

THE COURT: Well, 1 wanted to be sure. I
wanted to be sure which it was.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Mrs. Sumners, was there any time when the policy 
officers asked your permission to go in the house or to searc 
the house?

THE COURT: What was that?
MR. NABRIT: I asked if there was any time

when the police asked her permission to search the house?
THE WITNESS: No.

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Was there any time when you told them it was

all right if they searched the house or agreed to them to 
search the house or say something to them?

A No. When 1 was on the third floor, in the
living room there was this other officer had stopped me in 
the living room to talk, and the other officer was proceeding 
toward the back kitchen, the kitchenette, and I just told hln 
the light switch was on the right side of the wall when you 
open the door.

Q At any time in the house were you laughing?
A No, never at all.
Q Was there anything funny to you that happened?

59?



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A No, there was nothing funny there that I saw at

all.
Q Did you wish any officers a Happy New Year or

Merry Christmas? 5 9 3
A No, I did not.

MR. NABRIT: Your witness.
MR. SAUSE: No questions.
MR. NABRIT: Thank you, Miss Stunners.

(Witness excused.)

MR. NABRIT: Carol Sheppard.
Thereupon

CAROL SHEPPARD
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
in rebuttal and, having been first duly sworn, was examined 
and testified as follows?

THE CLERK: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Carol Sheppard.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Miss Sheppard, where do you live now?
A I live at 3910 West Cold Spring Lane.
Q Where did you live on January 6th?
A I lived at 2005 North Monroe Street.

THE COURT: What?



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967
MR. NABRIT: 2005 North Monroe Street.

MR. NABRIT:

Q And tell us how old you are?
A Yes, I do.

Q Where and what do you do?
A 1 work at Tommy Tucker's, 5&10, seventeen

hundred block Pennsylvania Avenue.

Q As what?
A Salesgirl.

Q Salesgirl?
A Yes.

THE CLERK: Talk louder.
THE WITNESS: Salesgirl, Tommy Tucker's.

BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Now, do you know Mrs. Maggie Sheppard?
A Yes, I do.

Q Are you related to her?
A No, no.

Q In any way?
A No, sir.

Q Where did you live in relation to Mrs. Maggie
Sheppard's house on January 6th?

A I lived next door to her.

Q Now, before that date did you know Miss Florenc
Snowden?



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A Mo, I didn't.
Q Before that day did you know Mrs. Juanita

Mitchell?
A Not personally, but you know, I had seen her

name to know her name.
Q How long before that day did you know Miss

Maggie Sheppard?
A For about tvo-and-a-half years.
Q Since that time you moved; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Now, do you remember when the police came to

Miss Sheppard*8 house? Do you remember the day?
A Yes.
Q Describe to us what you saw and heard and

observed on that day?
A Well, I was seated in my den watching TV with

my girl friend, Mary and my sister and little brother, and I 
had looked toward the front window and saw the policeman 
standing by my window with the gun.

So 1 told Mary and my sister, and they laughed. 
So the only time they believed me was when I hollered to my 
brother to come away from the window, that the police were 
there.

So I got up and went to the door, and when I 
went to the door and saw the officer standing there, and they



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969
were on each aide of the steps with guns pointed at the door.

\ Q Which door?
A Mrs. Sheppard's door, the front door, and there

were police there with bullet proof vests on, and they were 
running or coming in and out of her house. So then there was 
one officer carae up to the big car, che police car and got 
some kind of light, battery operated light and then went in 
the house and then--*

THE COURT: Got what?
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q And what did he get?
A It was some kind of battery operated light.
Q Battery operated light?
A Yes, light, and about five minutes later Mrs.

Sheppard came out and there was, 1 guess, plain-clothes men 
and trench coat, he had a trench coat on, and he had her by 
the arm, and her son Roscoe was holding her arm sort of 
following behind her, and there were two policemen on his 
side.

Q Where were they, the police?
A On Roscoe's side.
Q Which side?
A There was one on both sides of him, and Mrs.

Sheppard turned around and Mary and I—  

Q Who is Mary?



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970\\ A My girl friend, and she was watching television
with me, and turned around and told us or asked us to get in 
touch with Mr8. Florence Snowden.

Q And where were you standing and where was Mrs.
Sheppard?

A 1 was standing on the steps, and they had just
brought Mrs. Sheppard out of the house, and she was on her 
steps.

Q And what did she say?
A She turned around and asked me to get in touch

with Mrs. Florence Snowden but I didn't catch the address 
that she had given me because she was giving me the address 
and the police had pulled her back to try to get her in the 
car, and Mary and I, we left.

Q Just a minute. What did you do at that point?
A We took down Mrs. Snowden's number, the number

that 1 thought she had given us and we called a cab to go to 
Mrs. Snowden'8 house. \

Q And when you left had the police already gone?
A No, everybody was still there, and at that time

Mrs. Sheppard hollered back to the police and told them to 
please see if the lights were on, to turn them off.

Q All right. Then you went up to some place?
A We went down Pennsylvania Avenue and we went to

1932 Druid Hill Avenue and that was the next door neighbor to



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971
Mrs. Snowden, the next door neighbor.

Q Whose next door neighbor?
\ A Mrs. Snowden's.
\ Q And from there did you go somewhere else?

A We misses— I went to Mrs. Snowden's when she
gave me Mrs. Snowden's correct eddress, but Mrs. Snowden was 
not home, so I went back to Mrs. Simoons' house, and she got 
in touch with Mrs. Snowden, so then we went out and got a cab 
and went up to Mrs. Mitchell's house.

Q Did you go from Mrs. Mitchell's house to some­
where else?

A From Mrs. Mitchell's we went to Northwestern
Police Station.

Q Who was with you?
A Mrs. Mitchell, Mrs. Snowden, Mar;- and I.
Q And what happened at Northwestern?
A We went to Northwestern, and Mrs. Mitchell went

to the desk sergeant and told him her name, that she was an 
attorney, and she wanted to know was Mrs. Sheppard being held

ft
there, what she was being held for, and the desk sergeant 
told her to have a seat and he would send someone out to talk 
with her.

Q And did you go somewhere, someplace?
A Yes, we went and sat down in the courtroom.
Q The courtroom?



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972

Yes, sir.
And what happened after that?
Well, a man came out, and he was asking—

Q What did he look like?
A He was a tall man, a tall man with, you know,

blue pants on, and a shirt, a white shirt and tie.
Q And did he have a conversation with Mrs. Snowdei
A Yes, and he told her, after he learned our names

from Mrs. Snowden, and he told us it's good you're here, that 
we were just aoout to send the police down to your house.

She asked him, "You were going to send someone 
to my house. For what?" And he was telling her about this 
and she said, "Who is this?"

And he said, "Where were you and Miss Sheppard 
this morning?" And she told him they went down to tne 
Veterans' Administration, and he said, "What was your converse 
tion in the cab?" And she asked him, "What cab?" And he 
said, "The cab you caught on your way back." And she said,
"I don't know what you're talking aoout," and he said, "You 
were telling Mrs. Sheppard her son got drunk and went out and 
shot a policeman, and Mrs. Sheppard was saying, shush, you 
know, or like to keep Mrs. Snowden quiet," and she said, "No,
I don't remember saying tnat," and he said he had the cab 
driver outside, and he could get the cab driver to come back 
and tell what happened.



973
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And so Mrs. Snowden said she didn't, and she
said, "l£ I had said anything like that, that would be Roscoe

\
was A good boy and she should be glad he didn't go out and

Vshoot a policeman."
THE COURT: Who asked that? 1 did not get

that.
THE WITNESS: Mrs. Snowden was telling the

policeman that 'If I had said anything like that, it would be 
Roscoe was a good boy and she should be glad Roscoe didn't 
get drunk."
BY MR. NABR1T:

Q Didn't get drunk?
A Didn't get drunk and go out and shoot a police­

man, and she said he was a good boy, she should be glad he 
was a good boy.

Q Anytning more about the cab driver?
A No, except that Mrs. Snowden asked him, the

officer, to bring the cab driver in and face her, she said—  

THE COURT: Who asked that? I did not catch
that.

THE WITNESS: Mrs. Snowden, and he said no.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Who asked that?
A This is what the policeman said and Mrs. Snowdejn

said to the officer, "1 want him to tell it to my face," she



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974
\

said, and he didn't bring him in.
Q Now, was there any more conversation that you

remember?
A Yes, there was. I don't remember the exact

words he told us, he said that the police, he said something 
about, he would go back and see where she was.

THE COURT: What was that?
THE WITNESS: He was explaining, the officer,

that he would go oack end see where she was.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Who is chis?
A Mrs. Sheppard, that he would get her released,

or whatever it was, and he went back and then she came out 
and talked to Mrs. Mitchell.

Q And did you shortly thereafter see Mrs. Sheppar
A Yes.
Q And Roscoe?
A Yes.
Q Where were they at that time?
A They came out to where the desk sergeant was,

and the turnkey or whoever it was that opened up the doors, 
Mrs. Sheppard and Roscoe came out, and the man at the desk 
gave Roscoe the belt and tie pin and watch that belonged to 
him, and we went back to the courtroom, and then Mrs. Mitchel 
was there talking.



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975
And after th t, did you shortly after that go

\
somewhere else?

A \  We went down to City Hall to the Mayor's office, 
MR. HABRIT: Your witness. Ho further ques­

tions .
MR. SAUSE: I have no questions.

(Witness excused.)
—



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976

MR. NABRIT: Lucinda Wallace.
Thereupon

LUCINDA WALIACE
resumed the witness stand and testified for the plaintiffs 
in rebuttal*

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Miss Wallace, were you in court yesterday?
A Yes, I was.
Q Did you hear the testimony of Sergeant Brandt?
A Yes, I did.

THE CLERK: Talk up louder.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Now, do you remember seeing Sergeant Brandt in

your house when he came there?
A Yes, I do.
Q Will you tell His Honor exactly where you saw

Sergeant Brandt and describe what he did and said and describ 
what you did and said, if anything?

A I saw Sergeant Brandt when I opened the side
door to my home. The reason I opened the door was there was 
a light flashing on the dining room wall, and I had opened 
the curtains to see what the light was and I saw these policej* 
men; so I ran to the side door and opened the door.



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977

When I opened the side door Sergeant Brandt was 
standing on the bottom level, and he had the storm door open, 
and seeing the storm door was open,I said, 'Veil, what's 
wrong?"

And he said, "Well, did a Wallace live here?" 
And 1 said yes.

THE COURT: He said "Did the Wallaces live
here?"

THE WITNESS: I said yes.
THE COURT: You say he asked i£ the Wallaces

lived there?
THE WITNESS: Yes, and I said, "Yes, Mr. Harry

Wallace."
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Why did you say that?
A I said that because my father has four other

brothers living in the same area. There are two living on 
Geranium Street, two other brothers living on Geranium Street 
Then he asked me if this was 2408 Huron Street, and I said 
yes.

So he said, "Well, stand back."
Q Now, was anybody else there at the door with

you?
A Harriet Becker, who is my sister, and she's

twenty-one.



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978
Q Yes.
A And Sharon, who is my sister, and she's sixteen.
Q And had Sharon said anything to them at that

time?
A Sharon said nothing.
Q Had Harrietta said anything?
A Harrietta said nothing.
Q And you did the talking?
A I was the only one to talk.
Q Now, all right, what happened then?
A I moved up on the steps leading to the second

floor because the only place you can move when the door is 
open is either on the steps or in the living room.

I moved up on the steps leading to the second 
floor. Sharon moved up on the steps of the second floor.

Sergeant Brandt came in, and two officers came 
behind him. He pulled the side door open so that he could 
get through and go to the sitting room because we went into 
the sitting room and then he asked me again, who were the men 
in the house, where are the men in the house, how many men 
were in the house.

And 1 tried to name then, and I remember saying 
Clarence Moore.

Q Now, did he say anything to you by way of
explanation or why he was there and what his purpose was?



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A The only thing he said was that they had a call
and that they had to search the place.

\ q Did he ask you or anyone in your hearing for
permission to search?

A I heard him ask no one for permission to search.
q Now, did you, did you go, I believe your previoi

testimony was that you went upstairs with the police officers
is that correct?

A I went upstairs because one of the policeman
was halfway up the steps.

Q Now, was that policeman who went upstairs was
that Sergeant Brandt?

A No, it wasn't Sergeant Brandt because Sergeant
Brandt was in the sitting room with me.

Q Now, what did the policeman who went upstairs

979

look like? 
A
Q
A

Q
A

Well, he was a few Inches taller than me.
How tall are you?
Five feet, I'd say.
Five feet?
Yes. I guess he must have been about five- 

four or five-five. Not too much taller than you are.
Q What did he look like?
A Well, he was, you know, shorter than Sergeant

Brandt, and he was stockier, and he looked young.



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Q He looked you .g?
■ \  A Yes.

Q And did you have a lot of conversation with him
upstairs that you testified about last week when you testified 
before?

A Yes, I did.
Q Did you ever see Sergeant Brandt upstairs or go

upstairs? \
A No, I never saw him go upstairs, no.
Q Now, when you left the upstairs and came back

to the first floor, did you have any other conversation with 
Sergeant Brandt?

A Yes, in the living room when I was sitting on
the sofa trying to console mother.

Q What was your conversation with Sergeant Brandti
A When he asked me what was Sharon's name.
Q Is that the words he used?
A Well, he asked me what was her name.
Q And did what?

980

A He pointed to her, and I said, "That's Sharon," 
and he asked how old she was, and I told him she was sixteen, 
and he asked me who was, who mother was, and who was she, and 
I said, "That's ray mother," and I told her, told him, Sergeam 
Brandt, mother's name, and he asked me how old was she, and 3 
told him fifty, I think I told him fifty.



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And he asked me who the other people were in the 
house, and I tried, I tried to name them, and how many were in 
the house, and 1 told him they were five adults including 
myself, and two teen-agers and my little brother.

9bi

Q That's the people who lived there?
A Yes.

Q Did he ever ask you what your name was?
A No.

Q No?
A No.

Q When he was asking you these questions was he
doing anything?

A He had a pencil and piece of paper and he was
writing something down.

Q At any time did you see Sharon engage in any
conversation with any of these officers that you were talking 
to or limited to Sergeant Brandt, do you know if you saw her 
talking to Sergeant Brandt?

A I never saw him talking to her, no.
Q Did you hear the other officer yesterday talk

about your house?
A Yes.
Q Were you here all day yesterday?
A Ho. I came in.

Q Well, did you hear another officer testify



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your house? 
A

\ Q 
A

to.

Yes.
Old you have any conversation with him?
No, I think this is the one I gave the ash tray

Q Did he ever, this officer—
MR. NABRIT: Did Your Honor ask a question?
THE COURT: No. No, I have been trying to

catch the answer. I thought she said something about an ash 
tray.

MR. NABRIT: That's correct.
(The last answer was read by the Reporter.)

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q This officer you testified about, I believe,

was Lieutenant Coll, I believe. Do you remember having any 
conversation with him at all?

Are you skaking your head no?
A I don't remember.
Q All right. Thank you. Your witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SAUSE:

Q Did you see anybody talking to them?
A I beg your pardon?
Q Did you see anybody talking to the police?
A See anyone talking to the police?



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Q Yes, anybody that was in your house, did you see

inybody talk to them?
Yes.
Who?
Mrs. Barrick. She was a guest.
That's the guidance counselor, was it?
Yes, and well, mother, when she was sitting on

A\
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Q
A

the sofa.
Q Did your mother ask the police officers to take

her back to her shop?
A Yes, she was afraid.
Q And the police did cake her back?
A Yes.

MR. SAUSE: Mo further questions.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Did you go with ner when she went back?
A Yes, I did.
Q What happened at the shop?

MR. SAUSE: I object, if Your Honor please.
MR. NABRIT: You opened it up.
THE COURT: No, no, he didn't open that up.

He was just confirming the testimony that the officer, that 
she had asked the officer to take her back to the shop becaus^ 
she said she was afraid.



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984
Now, if you wane Co make a proffer?
MR, NABRIT: Well, the testimony yesterday,

Your Honor, and this may be anticipating argument, was that 
the woman went back to her business.

THE COURT: Well, the witness has just testified
that her mother was afraid and she asked the officers to take 
her back, and the officer went along and took her back to her 
toother's place of business and the witness went along. I 
don't see any point.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Did your mother do any more work at the shop
that night?

THE COURT: Well, what difference does it make?
That has no materiality here. We are not trying damage suits, 
as I have been trying to make it clear for some time.

MR. NABRIT: Very well, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Whether the mother worked or not

doesn't make any difference.
MR. NABRIT: No further questions.
THE COURT: — in this case.

(Witness excused.)

MR. NABRIT: Violet Bond.



985

10. ' Thereupon
V  VIOLET BOND
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified 
as follows:

THE CLERK: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Violet Bond.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:

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Q Miss Bond, what's your address?
A 917 North Chapel Street.
Q And do you have a friend named Frank Bond?
A Yes.
Q How long nave you lived in that house?
A Ten years.
Q Do you know anyone by the name of Price?
A No.
Q Randolph Price?
A No.
Q Rudolph Price?
A No.
Q Randolph Bryan?
A No.
Q Rudolph Bryan?
A No.



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Q Anyone in your family by the name like that

you know of at all?
A Ho.
Q Anyone that ever lived in your house by that

name that you are familiar with?
A No.
Q Nobody by that name?
A No.

MR. NABRIT: No further questions.
MR. SAUSE: You may step down.

(Witness excused.)

MR. NABRIT: If Your Honor please, may I
approach the bench?

THE COURT: Yes.
(Conference at the bench.)
(Thereupon, a recess was taken from 11:30 

o'clock a.ra. to 2:45 o'clock p.m.)



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987

Thereupon

AFTERNOON SESSION

(The Court reconvened at 2:45 o'clock p.m.) 
THE COURT: Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. NABRIT: Sharon Wallace.

SHARON LAVERNE WALLACE
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs
and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified 
as follows:

THE CLERK: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Sharon Laverae Wallace.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT •

Q Where do you live?
A 2408 Huron Street.

Q And how old are you?
A Sixteen.

Q Do you go to school?
A Yes.

Q Where and what grade?
A Western High School, tne eleventh grade.

Q And do you live with your parents?
A Yes.



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Q What are their names?
A Mrs. Elizabeth Wallace and Mr. Harry Wallace.
Q Who else lives in the house and name them and

their approximate age?
A My sister Lucinda Wallace, Harrietta--Lucinda it

twenty-nine; Harrietts is twenty-one; ray brother Troy, he's 
three-and-a-haIf; ray aunt, she's about sixty-some. Mrs.
Harry Burley, and her husband Mr. Clarence Burley. He's in ^is 
sixties, and my father and mother.

Q Now, were you in court yesterday and part of
today?

A Yes.
Q Did you hear Sergeant Brandt testify yesterday

about your house?
A Yes.
Q Did you hear another officer testify about your

house yesterday?
A No.
Q Now, tell the Judge what happened, what happeneji

on the evening the police came to your house?
A Well, at the—
Q At the beginning, how it happened?
A Well, I was sitting in the sitting room watching

slides, and we saw a light moving across this dining room.
So Lucinda jumped up and she went and pulled th|e

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989
curtains up and looked out, and I was behind her and saw some 
policemens and, goodness what's happening?" And she ran 
to the side door, and 1 was behind her, and Harrietts was 
behind me.

1 stood up upon the steps, and Lucinda opened tl 
door, and a policeman, when we, when she opened the inside 
door another policeman opened the storm door, and he said,
"Go back."

He said, "How many men live here? Who are the 
men and what are their names? 1

And she, as she was telling him the names, she 
was asking him questions, and still, they were still, they 
were still coming in.

So someone was knocking at the front door; so 
one of the other officers went to the front door and opened 
the front door, and some more policemen came in, and so, they 
started, they said they had a call, they would have to search 
the house, and they started up, they started upstairs, and 
then two of the policemen started down the stairs, so-- 

Q Now, go ahead.
A And Hrs. Barrick, she was a guest in the house,

and she says, "Well, wait a minute, I think the dog is down­
stairs."

And so one of the policemen said','He won't bite
me."

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And so she said, 'Well, we don't know about thaf." 
So he said, "Well, 1 know he won't bite me."
So she said, "Well, you won't shoot him either.
So he said, "You want to bet I won't?"
So I went downstairs to see if the dog was down 

there, and two of the policenen were behind me and--
Q All right. Up until that point had any office^

talked to you, just to you personally?
A No.
Q Had any officer asked you your name?
A No, they hadn't.
Q Had you talked to any of the officers?
A No.
Q You hadn't said anything to any of the police?
A No.
Q Now, can you remember the two officers that

went down the basement in the cellar?
A You mean describe them?
Q Yes.
A Well, I remember one, he was tall, and he had

a sort of white-gray hair. I couldn't see the back of his 
head because he had his cap on and he didn't take it off; anc 
the other one was shorter, and I don't remember exactly how 
he looked.

And the tall one had a black leather jacket on.

597



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991
He had on black boots, and he had on a long gun.

Q Now, did you have any conversation with them,
with the two men that were searching in the cellar?

A While 1 was in the cellar?
Q Yes.
A One of them asked me, one of them asked me,

"What is this? Is this a freezer?" And I said, "Yes." 
THE COURT: What? A what?
THE WITNESS: A freezer.
THE COURT: Oh.
THE WITNESS: And so he opened it and looked

in; and then there's a door that leads out of the basement. 
So he said, "Where does this lead? Outside? " And I said, 
"Yes." So they searched all the rooms.
BY MR. NABRIT:

Q Now, do you recall any other conversation in
the basement?

A
Q

No.
Did you subsequently go back up to the first

floor ?
Yes.A

Q Now, was there any time during the evening that
any of the officers asked you or tell you why they were there[ 

A No, they didn't.
Q Later on did they? 598



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A To me?
Q Yes.
A No.
Q Did you overhear then telling other people?
A Why, 1 heard them say that they had an anonymoufe

call after they came upstairs, they said they had an anonymous 
call that the Veney brothers were there and they had to searcfi

Q Now, when was that?
A This was after they had finished searching for

anyone and gone upstairs and come down and went in the base­
ment and come up.

Q Now, you said some officers came in the front
door? Some officers came in the front door; is that your 
testimony?

A Yes.
Q Of those officers that came in the front door,

did any of them talk with you?
A No, they didn't.
Q Where were you?
A I was standing on the steps.
Q During the whole time that you were there did

you tell any officers what your name was?
A No.
Q How old you were?
A No.

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Q Did you ever give any officer permission to
search the house?

A No.
Q Did anybody ever ask you for permission?
A He?

993

S O OQ Yes.
r A No.

HR. NABRIT: Your witness.
HR. SAUSE: No questions. You may step down,

(Witness excused.)

HR. NABRIT: Hr8. Lankford.
Thereupon

CORINTHIA LANKFORD
was called as a witness for and on behalf of the plaintiffs 
Jn rebuttal and, having been previously duly sworn, was examir
and testified further as follows:

THE CLERK: Hrs. Lankford, you are still under

oath.
DIRECT EXAHINATION

BY HR. NABRIT:
Q Were you in court yesterday, Hrs. Lankford?
A No, I was not.
Q Did you hear the testimony of— well, perhaps it;

was another day--did you hear the testimony of Lieutenant
x

ed



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994
Hew^s and Lieutenant Schnavle?

\ A Yes, I did.
Q The day before yesterday?
A Yes.
Q You were here and heard them?
A Yes, I was.
Q Now, when you opened the--you previously

testified about this, and 1 want you to start from the time 
when you opened the door to your house?

A When I opened the door, Lieutenant, which 1\
later found out, his name was Lieutenant Hewes, came in and 
four officers in the bulletproof uniforms with the rifles 
followed him, and Lieutenant Hewes.

By then 1 had backed into my living room, and 
Lieutenant Hewes was asking me if my name was Garrett; and 
in the meantime while he was asking me that, the other 
policemens continued to come into the house.

Q Now, were there any lights on in there where
you were?

A I had the lights on in the hallway but there
wasn't any light on in the living room because my fixture, 
the ceiling fixture is broke, and there is a bulb in there 
but it was not on.

Q Now, can you remember--describe the conversatic
between you and Lieutenant Hewes, as best you remember?



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995
\  A Well, Lieutenant Hewes asked me if my name was

Garrett, and 1 told him no, and he asked me did 1 know any 
Garretts, and I said no, and he said, "We are going to search 
your house," and he and the other policemens continued.

Q Did you say anything to him at that point?
A I said, "O.K.," but when I said, "O.K." it was,

I'd say four or eight of them already in the house because 
they had proceeded down my hall, and that's three-by-seven-- 
twelve feet, and they were, had continued down the hall by 
the time he said, "We are going to search your house," and 
they were still coming in the house.

Q Now, did he show you any pictures?
A He did not show me any pictures, no.
Q Now, after this conversation, what did you do?
A After the conversation I stayed in the living

room for a while, and when they went upstairs I proceeded to 
go into my dining room, and there were officers, that my 
dining room, there is a kitchen next to my dining room.

There were officers in the kitchen, and some of 
them had gone down to the basement, and I stayed there in the 
dining room the whole time they were continuing their search 
of the house.

Q Well, what happened, describe what happened as
they left? \

A Well, as they came down, well, the officers



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996
that were upstairs, they came down the steps, and my stairs ie 
this way and the dining room is over here where I was, and--

Q Just a minute. You mean that the dining roan
\

is further back in the house than the stairway?
A \  Yes, it is, it's further back, and it's sort of

\like at an angle.
Q All right. Go ahead.
A And the officers came down the stairs and went

out the door, and I was still in the dining room. They didn 
pass me other than the officers that were coming from the 
kitchen and the basement, they were the officers that had to 
pass me to get out; but the other officers that came down the 
stairs continued out the hallway and went past me, and they 
went out the door and nothing was said.

Q Any of them look at you as they went out?
A That was one officer that came by and glanced

into the dining room where I was. He just glanced at me 
and he continued out the door.

Q Can you describe him?
A This was one of the colored officers, and he

was the one that had proceeded upstairs the early part of the 
search with the lantern. I remember him because he carried 
a lantern, and he came downstairs and he glanced into the 
dining room where I was and just continued out the door.

Q Now, did you see Lieutenant Hewes when he left



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Mo, I couldn't say I saw him. I Just saw them 
coming down the stairs, out I couldn't pinpoint one officer 
and pick him out as being Lieutenant Hewes.

Q Was there any conversation as they left?
A There was no conversation at all.

MR. NABRIT: No further questions.
MR. SAUSE: No questions. You may step down.

(Witness excused.)
ra

MR. NABRIT: May it please the Court, that's
the last witness we intended to call.

There were two other matters I wanted to mention 
One is the matter of the Masters' work sheets wnich I believe 
tne Masters' report was filed. I don't know if the work 
sheets are considered filed and any formalities being taken 
care of in connection with them.

THE COURT: Well, I think that the eight! of
them with the addresses on the top and the others I believe 
have been copied.

MR. NABRIT: I have copies of all of them but
I don't know whether they are officially a part of the record!.

THE COURT: Well, I think they should be consic
ered a part of the record. 1 will not cut the tope off 
because we may need them for some purpose. You can use the 
copies you have.

997

601



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998
MR. NABRIT: Yes.
THE COURT: And I will keep the originals in

ray safe, and additional copies can be made whenever necessary.
MR. NABRIT: And the other matter was one we

discussed at the bench and in chambers, and this was the 
whole question as to whether or not this case involves in any 
way the issue of legality of arrest for investigation are 
sufficient, and 1 indicated to the Court that X wanted to 
state our view of it for, I guess, three reasons we think this 
is a part of the case.

We think that first it relates to the second 
prayer for relief in our complaint which asks for an injunctic 
against interfering with people because they protest and non- 
co-operate and it goes to the enforceability of the order.

THE COURT: Yes, 1 understand it's a special
prayer of interfering because they resist and don't co-operate

MR. NABRIT: Coupled with that--
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. NABRIT: And it's related to that and also

expressed in the similar vein it relates to the fact that if 
the police can arrest on suspicion then they would be able to 
make, if they can also arrest on suspicion then they would 
have a lawful right to make searches Incident to such an 
arrest and that would bring us into a full circle in terms of 
this case.

602



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Finally with reference particularly to the 
Sheppard household, I would say that if that arrest was lawful 
then perhaps the search of the house was lawful.

So that in three ways there is some sort of a 
question pertaining to legality of arrest for investigation 
and suspicion, and that is involved.

MR. SAUSE: Your Honor--
MR. NABRIT: Excuse me.
MR. SAUSE: Go ahead.
MR. NABRIT: As 1 think I indicated at the

bench, Your Honor, my purpose of making a statement was that 
because we have been discussing this, that it would be clear 
that this was not something I was raising after but during th® 
trial and not waiting until it was over, I mean until any 
opportunity to continue the trial is over.

THE COURT: 1 think that the question with
respect to your two and three, particularly with respect to 
three is of course in as tangentially as a particular incident. 
The question of whether it should come in on the first point 
as a major look at the whole question as arresting for 
interrogation or an arrest for interrogation, which is a 
different matter from arresting on suspicion. They are two 
entirely different points, it seems to me.

MR. NABRIT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Because I don't think you can arrelst

603



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on suspicion; you have got to have probable cause for an 
arrest. Now, even where there is probable cause for arrest, 
people are sometimes booked for investigation rather than as 
charged with the crime, and the reasons for doing that and th< 
reasons for not doing that are very many and something that 
requires a very full development, but I don't think that is 
directed in this case.

MR. NABR1T: Maybe ray problem is something in
the discussion that I don't understand the differences in the 
police practice.

THE COURT: I have heard enough about it.
The police in Baltimore do frequently book people for invest! 
tion without formally charging them with a crime. Now, I 
don't believe that they contend that they have a right to 
arrest a man and hold him against his will unless they have 
grounds to arrest him for something else, for a crime, that 
they have probable cause to arrest him.

That question comes up, is raised by defendantc 
who have been arrested, of course, in connection usually with

1000

searches or in connection with confessions made afterward, 
and it'8 in the course of being worked out in a series of 
regular criminal cases and postconviction cases in the 
Maryland courts and in habeas corpus cases in this court and 
the Fourth Circuit and going up to the Supreme Court, and 
it'8 a matter that is being built up bit by bit on case law,

G04



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1001

and It is not something that somebody can just sit down and 
lay down a broad rule or a series of guide lines on.

In one of the recent cases— wasn't it Ker? One 
of the recent Supreme Court cases.

MR. MURPHY: Haynes.
THE COURT: That they could not lay down certaii

guide lines but that they had to work some of these problems 
out on a case-by-case basis.

We are in some very difficult fields here when 
you get into that but certainly so far as it is related to 
that, your third point has got to be decided if it is reached, 
and it may be by reason of a decision for you on one point or 
a decision for the defendant on another point, you might not 
reach the point; but if it is reached the Court is going to 
face it. I am not going to duck any points, but I am not 
going to reach out to decide all the points in the case that 
don't have to be decided.

MR. NABRIT: Yes.
MR. SAUSE: For the record, it was never our

understanding, Your Honor, that the Sheppard case and the 
Monroe Street case came into this case or came indeed within 
the allegations or within the prayer of the complaint for any 
sort of special or Independent relief ocher than what was 
generally asked for here.

THE COURT: No, it's not independent relief for

605



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1002
that.

HR. SAUSE: And it stretches ray credulity to—
well, strike that--but It eludes me how Mr. Nabrit can say 
that It comes either within the allegations or either the 
prayers for the relief in the complaint; but nevertheless we 
think that on the basis that he is asking that it be consider* 
here, we think it does not come within them.

THE COURT: Well, I axn not ruling that it does
or that it doesn't come within the prayer, but there is a 
second prayer of the complaint which "Seeks an injunction 
from harassing, threatening, intimidating, or otherwise 
interfering with plaintiffs or any persons because they protes 
object to or resist such unlawful entries and searches."

It's an extremely broad prayer.
MR. SAUSE: Well, if I may say—
THE COURT: As to what would constitute a

violation of that would present certain problems and which 
conceivably could be a reason for not granting an injunction, 
but it does not mean that evidence tending to prove a single 
incident of that is not admissible on the question of whether 
the Court should grant an injunction.

MR. SAUSE: The only thing is, the face of La
Gioconde that Mr. Nabrit is presenting today is a face that 
nobody ever dreamed of much before yesterday afternoon in thi£ 
case, and that interpretation of that second prayer is one

GOB



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that is of most recent vintage, and it is certainly one that 
does not fit as well within the context or the complete 
reading of the bill.

THE COURT: Well, do you think tnere is any
other evidence with respect to two or besides two except this

HR. SAUSE: It occurred to me in reading it
and in rereading it that two was framed in such a way, and 
if Your Honor please, the Sheppard case arose after these 
papers had been shipped up to New York for mimeographing and 
had been shipped back again.

You will remember that when we first saw this 
case, when we first saw the complaint the Sheppard affidavit 
wasn't even attached to it. This was something that Mrs. 
Mitchell raced in with at the last minute and even collated 
right in front of us in the office back there, after the 
complaint had been filed.

So that it's an afterthought from tne word 
"go '; but in any event--and tuay I finish?

MR. NABRIT: Yes.
MR. SAUSE: But in any event the second, it

seems to me, or the first prayer was the one that was the 
primary one, and the second was simply auxiliary to it.
That is, tnat not only must the police desist these acts 
which are complained of but also that they would not seek 
retribution or anything else against the people who did

607

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1004
resist these arrests. Th t is, tnat they would not try to 
circumvent the direct and positive rulings of the Court under 
Ho. 1.
-----  THE COURT: Well, I think that is what it deals
with, and you may argue that the incident by which or as a 
result of which Mrs. Sheppard was booked does not come within 
the question of resisting the search, that she was not booked 
because she had resisted a search but she was booked because, 
as I gather, because she had made certain conflicting state­
ments and had refused to give certain other information 
according to the officers’ testimony.

1 am not finding the fact; but I gather that 
that is what it is, that she wouldn't answer their questions 
about the conversations in the taxicab.

How, it didn't deal with searching the house or 
searching the person because she did not make any real effort 
to prevent their searching the house. She either consented 
to it, as the officers testified to, or she didn't consent to 
it as she testified, and she certainly did not protest, object 
to, or resist the search at the time, wnatever protests that 
she made afterwards when she had already been booked before 
she protested to City Hall. So that I think you just have 
to see how it goes.

MR. SAUSE: If Your Honor please, for the
record, in so far as that testimony with regard to Monroe

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Street was offered and presented for the purpose of
1005

supporting this latter day theory of Mr. Nabrit's, we object 
to it and we at this time move that it be stricken as being 
completely outside of any reasonable reading of that complain 
of the bill of complaint.

THE COURT: Well, I am not going to strike it,
which is in effect a directed verdict on it. I think he has 
his problems to get relief on it for various reasons; but I 
am not going to strike it out of hand here. 1 want to see 
the argument on it, and I think there are a number of hurdles 
to jump in connection with it.

MR. SAUSE: We don't want to be contentious
about it, but we are simply preserving our objections for 
argument.

THE COURT: Certainly you are entitled to make
that objection, and I have ruled against you at this time 
without prejudice to your right to raise it as a matter of 
fact and law in your brief.

MR. SAUSE: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: I just refuse to dismiss it out

of hand now on a kind of directed verdict point. I want to 
hear full argument on it.

MR. SAUSE: Thank you, sir.
MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, we have no more

reouttal evidence to offer, and we rest.

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THE COURT: There was only one other thing
that 1 don't believe anybody has put in the record, that 
there was in fact no letter from che State’s Attorney Hoylan 
to the FBI agent who obtained the warrant.

MR. SAUSE: Judge, Your Honor, for the record,
I was informed this morning by Lieutenant Glover who was 
asked to get such a letter that there was no such letter in 
existence.

I might add for the benefit of the Court that 
it is nothing unusual in this type of case, that the State's 
Attorney is only involved because he controls the purse 
strings in anything.

THE COURT: No one is criticizing anyone for
the obtaining of the warrant, for the fugitive warrant; it 
just was a matter of clearing up matters that were not clear 
on the record.

MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, Mr. Dearing reminds n
that earlier in the hearing we entered into a stipulation 
that no warrants had been applied for in the Municipal Court, 
with the understanding that there would be a check as to 
other courts.

Is that point clear that there were no search 
warrants? I was just wondering about any testimony on it.

THE COURT: Yes, there was a stipulation, I
believe, that no search warrants were obtained in the

1006

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1007

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Municipal Court.
MR. NABRIT: The Municipal Court.
THE COURT: But 1 don't believe— is it agreed

that there were no search warrants obtained?
MR. SAUSE: We have not made any investigation

of the sixteen Judges of the Supreme Bench; but Mr. Murphy 
and I would concede that there were no search warrants in thin 
case.

THE COURT: All right.
How, there was some question to be sure about

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it that the stipulation that the Samuel Veney whose name 
appeared on the card in the liquor store, the check cashing 
establishment, was a different Samuel Veney, and 1 understand 
the State is willing to stipulate that he was a different 
Samuel Veney.

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MR. MURPHY: We already have, Your Honor.
MR. NABRIT: Samuel E. Veney.
THE COURT: Now, is it agreed that for the

purposes of this case the State does not dispute the 
uncontradicted evidence that he enlisted in the Navy around 
Christmas 1963 or January 1964?

MR. MURPHY: We have no evidence to the

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contrary, Your Honor.
THE COURT: The Court then will consider that

that is an uncontradicted fact which the Court should find to

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1008
be true for the purposes of this case.

Now, that covers what you need, doesn't It, Mr.
Nabrlt?

MR. NABRIT: Yes, Your Honor. >12

THE COURT: All right.-_____ ,,,, — ~ ' L-JJ ' ' '
Now, if therd\is nothing further let me speak 

to counsel so that we can just try to work out the schedule.\ xX X

(Thereupon, there was a conference at the bench 
after which the Court adjourned at 3:52 o'clock p.m. to await

Vthe setting of a date for argument.)



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