Appendix Volume II

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APPENDIX 

VOLUME II -- Pages 306 - 620 

IN THE 

Supreme Court of the United States 
OCTOBER TERM, 1978 

No. 77-1844 

CITY OF MOBILE, ALABAMA, et al., 

Appellants, 

WILEY L. BOLDEN, et al, 

Appellees. 

ON APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES 

COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT 

JURISDICTIONAL STATEMENT FILED JUNE 27, 1978 
PROBABLE JURISDICTION NOTED OCTOBER 2, 1978 

 



  

  

  
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INDEX 

Volume II 

Page 

Testimony of Lambert Mims. ..........oooerneneenenens 307 

Testimony of Gary Greenough ............ovoveneneene: 396 

Testimony of Lambert Mims (Resumed)................. 401 

Testimony of Gary Greenough (Resumed)........... «+488 

Testimony of James E. Voyles (Resumed) .........c.o.nvn. 500 

Testimony of George Winstanley. ...........cooveeenee 518 

Testimony of Earl Joyner.............couvvrnnrneenees 524 

Testimony of Tom Peavy.........ccocviivinnrennnnnnns 540 

Testimony of Jack Summerall ....... Sag TOO RL 

Testimony of Marion Barnett ............oooveeenernens 546 

Testimony of John A. Calamettl. oo vvdi sds dono vi B32 

Court COMOQUY. ..u is ianranaias tos badass esspgnsnssivs 568 

Plaintiffs’ Exhibits 

No. 5 — 1973 Mobile Voter Registration for Selected 

Wards ir i ih svi ne saa dean saan ete a eye ad 572 

No. 6 — 1976 Mobile Voter Registration for Selected 

Wards i NE ee eat a ie sR a rae eee Oa 573 

No. 7 — Summary Mobile County Voter Registration. . ...574 

No. 9 — Excerpts from Voyles Thesis: “ An Analysis 

of Mobile Voting Patterns, 1948-70" ................ 213 

No. 53 — Summary of Statistical Analyses.............. 591 

No. 61 — Excerpts from File “Newspaper AAS... Janie 593 

No. 62 — Newspaper article “Numerous Cross 

BUMINGS «suave Samara arr venient ca wanasere ras 600 

 



  

  

      

  

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(ii) Th 
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No. 64 — Summary of City Committees ................ 601 i 

No. 65 — File of Grand Jury Report and Newspaper ; 
clippings from 1976 re: Police Brutality .............. 605 p THE COUR 

No. 73 — Summaries of City Employment Data (1975)...611 i 

No. 75 — Summary — City Streets .......... AER a ...614 MR. AREN 

No. 111 — Sub exhibit N to Documents regarding 
Utilization of Revenue Sharing Funds. .......... vise B15 : 

: Mr. Doyl 

: that the 

a Thursd 

| and thre 

not note 

making s 

and it a 

were con 

So that 

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correct. 
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| MR. AREN 
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(RECESS) 

THE COURT: 

All right. You may proceed.   MR. ARENDALL: 

If your Honor please, during the noon recess, 

Mr. Doyle checked his secretary's calendar and it appears 

that the call from Mr. Clint Brown came in on April 8th, 

a Thursday, sometime between eleven-thirty in the morning   
and three-thirty-five in the afternoon, the exact time was 

not noted, because he accepted the call without his secretary 

making some notation that he had called at a certain time 

and it appears that the meeting with some of those who 

  were concerned was held the next day, that is April 9th. 

So that it could properly be referred to as a Friday meeting 

rather than a Thursday meeting. 

My understanding is that Mr. Blacksher's own notes,     | to the extent that he has them, indicate that that is 

correct. 

{THE COURT: 

Fine. Thank you. Are you through with the witness? 

MR. ARENDALL: | 

Yes, sir. | 
| 

THE COURT: 

Whom will you have next, please? | 

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Q Now, Mr. Mims, in your 1965 race for the City i 
A 4 CA 

Commission were there seven candidates including the then : 
¥ ; and a 

incumbent, Mr. Charles Trimmier? 3 
§ | campa-c 

A Mr. Trimmier was a candidate and I am sure that 3 

£ Q 
number is correct. 

] A 

Q I will ask you whether or not, in that election you i : 
¥ : | was Sa 

had a runoff between yourself and Henry Luscher, Jr., whose : | 
) ¥ EQ 

father had previously been a member of the Commission? 
| any oO: 

A This is correct. | 
i A 

Q In 1969, were you again opposed by Mr. Henry Luscher | Q 

Jr., as well as Charles F. Cooper and were you re-elected ’ 

without a runoff? | 
been - 

A This is correct. 
: Eo many } 

Q In 1973 were there six candidates, including : in 19 : ‘ n 19 
Alphonso Smith and Lula Albert, who were black? » 

¥ | stand: 
A This is correct. 4 | 

¢ | it wa: 

Q Did you win in that race without a runoff? b 
3 1 black 

A I did. § | : ; & I the e: 

Q Mr. Mims, in that race did you seek black support? : Q 

A I have always sought black support. L 
3 to you 

Q Did you have any blacks active in your political ; 11k 
: e 

campaign? £ 
| ¥ I the si 

A Yes, I did. 5 : 
| zg First 

Q Could you identify any blacks who gave you particu- 

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  ' larly strong support? 

  
  

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i A Well, there was Reverand Tunstall, and Mr. Evans 

3 3 
i and a number of other blacks who played a good part in my 

5 campaign for re-election. 

i Q Did you visit the non-partisan voters league? 

A Not in the '73 campaign. When I ran in 1965 I | 
you i 

: | was screened by the non-partisan voters league. 

se I 
HQ Did youpgo to the polls in 1969 and do you remember 

! any of the activities of Mr. Beasley, at that time? 

  

    

    
  

    

ye 1 

! i A Yes, I do. 
cher 5 | 

7 Q Tell us about those. | 

: | A Well, it has been my policy, every since I have | 

4 | been involved in politics, on election date, to make as | 

: | many polls as possible and, on that particular election day 

3 in 1969, Mr. Beasley was, if my memory serves me correctly, | 

1 | standing at the ward ten balloting place on Davis Avenue gid 

’ it was my understanding that he was actually discouraging 

; | black people from coming to the polls and participating in 

; | the election process. | 

? ] Q Mr. Mims, before we go into details with respect 

: to your responsibility as public service commissioner, I would 

i | like for you to outline for the Court the basic set up for 

: | the supplying of various governmental services to Mobilians? 

| 5 | Firat, Mobile Water and Sewer Board, what is that? 

u- 3 
of ig $ | i 308" 3 ee #4 

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| 
| 

i 

- which are appointed to that board by the City Commission 

and this board has the responsibility of providing water and 

  

  
| government? 

A Well, the Mobile Water and Sewer Board is an 

entity separate from the City Commission. The members of 

sewer service to the citizens of the City of Mobile. 

Q ~~ Is it established by State law? 

A This is correct, 

Q Is Mr. Milton Jones a black, a menber of that board? 

A He is. 

Does that board handle City drainage matters? 

Not storm drainage matters. vil 

That is a function of the City government, itself? 

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This is correct and, under the specific duties of 

the public works commission, 

Q All right. Mobile County Health Department. Would 

you give us the relationship of that unit to the City   
A Well, the Mobile County Board of Health has 

members who serve at the pleasure of the County Commission, 1 

I am not mistaken. The City Commissioners do not appoint to | 

this board. 

However, by statute, by State law, each municipality 

within the County, as well as the County, has to contribute   
to the Board of Health and in the case of the City of Mobile | 
  

      309° —~—s ; | 

  

  

    

we cont 

law. I 

two dol 

actuall 

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A 

its fun 

Mobile 

Mobile 

serving 

Q 

housing 

regard? 

     



  
  

  
    

      
          

i | “ah : ; 827 

——t—826 |’ 

| we contribute far more than the amount that is prescribed by 

law. I think we support the Board of Health at the tune of 

of . two dollars and forty cents per capita when the State law 

en | actually requires sixty cents, if I am not mistaken. 

¥ 4nd Q Mobile Housing Board? 

| A The Mobile Housing Board is also a separate entity and 

| its function is to provide public housing for the City of 

Mobile and the members of that board are appointed by the 

oard? Mobile City Commission or more specifically the mayor, who is 

4 serving, at that time. | 

{ Q Is that the agency that has been charged of public 

4 housing here and works with the Federal agencies in that | 

1£7 § regard? | 

of £4 A This is correct. They work for closely with HUD and 

i the other Federal agencies and, in the past, had been 

ould bi designated as our urban renewal agency in the City. 

hh Q Was Mr. John LeFlore a member of the board? 

A He was for a number of years. | 

| Q Is there currently, on the board, Mr. John F. Grey, | 

ion, 1 who is black? : oil 

nt to | : NA He is black, yes. 
I 

i lla And he is on that board? 

ality ] A This is correct. 

bute I Q Mobile County Personnel Board? 

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| A Well, the Mobile County Personnel Board is certainly 
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separate from the City Commission. In fact, in many cates 
| that w 

| has more power, in my opinion, than the City Commission, ! 

: with a 
| because it tells us what to do. 

| 
| It is a three member board and these board members : 
| * Person 

I! are selected by a supervisory committee that is made up of ; 
i . : ! 11st ha 

| one representative from each of the participating governmental 
h to do 

, entities. : 
' case, 

Q That would be the City of Mobile has only one 
names 

member on the supervisory committee? 
select: 

A This is correct. And I think there are seventeen 
. City, 

members of that committee, and it has been a contingen of 
| two apj 

| the City government for a long time that there is a terrible 
! : this wz 

inadequaty that exists here inasmuch as we are called on to : | 
| 5 8 
| pay fifty-five percent of the operating costs of this board, A 

| pe | but you 

i! yet we only have one vote out of seventeen in selecting the # 
® I A 

| board members and, of course, the board members then select ; 
: on the 

| a director and they operate the program and screen all 
; Q 

| applicants for job opportunitites in the City as well as in % 
i bS three, 

| all of these other governmental agencies. 4 
{ 

A 

Ii Q When the City considers that it wants someone to -- “ I 

| : % | ten nan 

| or wants to fill a position on the City payroll, what procedure ¥ 
4 system 

ii is followed? 5 | 
k Il we take 

| A Well, if we want a secretary, for instance, a position — 

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' is opened for secretary or a position has been vacated, and 
-ainly 

we need to fill that vacancy, we notify the Personnel Board 
ces 

that we need to fill this vacancy. They, in turn, furnish us 
3, : : 

with a certified list of qualified people. ‘ 

In other words, when we get the list from the | 

Jers : 
| 

: Personnel Board we have the assurance that the names on that 

» of 
'! 1ist have been examined and screened and they are qualified 

-nmental | | 
to do whatever it is that we need to have done and, in this | 

case, we are talkimg about a secretary. So, we have five 

names on the list, say, and then we have the privilege of : 

a selecting from the top three and every vacancy within the | 

en 3%: i 

Ee City, with the exception of the City Attorney and one or 
& | 

of ip 
4 | two appointed positions, every one of them are handled j:=t 

rible 5 
3 | this way. 

2 to 2 
5 | Q I understand they give you a list of five names, | 

»oard, a 
ped | but you may only select from the top three? 

= the | 
f A Well, I just used the number five, there could be ten 

sl ect 
| on the list, we still can select only from the top three. 

Q Out of curiosity, why do they give you more names than 

18 in ’ | 
{ three, then? 

| A Well, these names move on up the list. Say there are 

0 -- I 
| 

pS |i ten names on the list for stenographic secretary, within the | 

sTocedure % | 
# | system and the City of Mobile this week needs a secretary and 

re I we take the one right off the top. Well, then, the number 

=osition Li I . ERASER 8 SNA LA A 

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| two person moves up to number one and say maybe the County percen! 

might need & secretary and they can select from that top | standi 

three. | actual. 

Q © I see. Are there any other agencies that are actually Q 

not part of the City of Mobile's government that perform A 

important function in providing public services that I have Q 

not asked you about? of the 

| A Well, we have recently set up the Mobile Transit A 

| Authority that handles the public transportation for the City | Q 

and then we have an interim airport authority that assists | imov wi) 

the airport commissioners and the City Commissioners in the : Plain: 

operation of the airport. / Supple 

Q Both of those established under State law? 4 ! commit 

A Well, the transit authority is under State law and : | Facent 

it is my understanding and we hope some day to have a perma- i | by one 

nent airport authority, however, at this time, it is kind of | 

J an acting authority, for lack of a better word.. We have el : State 

| used interim airport authorities. ; ie A 

Q Does the City subsidize bus service in Mobile? | Q 

A We do to the tune of three hundred thousand dollars A 

a year. 
4 1 wants f 

Q Would you give us any estimate as to the percentage E ' | to goo 

| of blacks and whites respectively who ride the buses? ] oe allowec 

A Well, I am sure I am correct in saying that the largest x ) 28 just 

: TS 313 BSR. pe [57 |                



  

  

  

  
  
    

aay {ral = 831 

anty percentage of riders would be blacks and it is my under- 

op | standing that only four percent of the people of Mobile 

| 
| actually use the service in any one given day. 

i sctuslly Q That is both black and white? 

A Right. | m 

Rave Q Would it be fair to say that an overwhelming number 

of the actual riders are black? 

. A This is correct. 

; 1 o ' | 
e City Q Now, let's go to City committees, Mr. Mims. I don E) 

SLs know whether you were present in Court or not, but the | 

: | 
tha : Plaintiffs have introduced as their Exhibit 64 a list 

| : 
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| supplied by us at their request of all the boards and 
i ! 

9 | committees and so on that are or have been around Mobile rn 

and & | recent years and I am just going to have to go down them one ; 

eriia~ ® | by one. | 

A: | 

ad of fl I The board of adjustment, is that an agency required by 

A | | 
! State law? | 

ve i | 

; ! A Yes, and it is one of the more active boards. 

Aq What does it do? | 

Yara | A It rules on variances. For instance, if the person 
| > | 

Hag | wants to add on to his house and build a garage and it is going 
F000 

¢ Be to go over near the line closer than the six foot that is 
age = : 

: f allowed, then that person would come befere this board of 

Yarigelt B. ; | adjustment and get a variance. | 

ES - in ———— oo ——————— —————————n i ee oid 

: i a EN | _ 314 »   
 



  

  

    

    

  

  

  

Q Doesn't he first go to the City planning commission 

and then to the board of adjustment or does he? 

A No. I don't think so. The planning commission is 

another planning function that I imagine we will get into 

later. 

Q All right. Of the seven members of that board, is 

one of them black? 

A ~ Yes, he is. 

THE COURT: 

Just one minute. Please state for me the function 

of that board. 

A Your Honor, the function of that board is to grant 

variances. 

THE COURT: 

Zoning laws? 

A Well, we have a zoning commission, too, that acts on 

property of two acre plots and larger, but say you have a 

plot that was smaller than two acres and you wanted to get a 

special exception to put a special business or expand your 

house beyond the normal limits or something like this, you 

would come before this board of adjustment and ask for an 

exception and they hear all of these cases and either grant 

or deny your request. 

THE COURT: 

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£ Lb a 833 
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Mr. Blacksher and Mr, Arendall, for quick reference 
mission 

for study in the future, if there is no objection, I am going 

4 to make some pencil notations on the Exhibit, for instance, 
on is 

thio like board of adjustments set up by State law. Any objection 
n : 

to me doing that? 
i : i 

| | 
{ “MR. DALL: 

rd, is : Asa 
| 

No, sir. 
| 
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‘ MR. BLACKSHER: 

J No, sir. 
i I 

| FE: THE COURT: 
ction ie Pa & | 

| 32 : Let the record show that any notes on here will be | 
ES ; | 

grant i5 i made by me in pencil and if the attorneys have any ohjectiony 

ped I when it is over with, I will hear from you. Go ahead. 

A I Mr. Mims, the board of adjustment would also handle, | 

: i would it not, what are called applications for exceptions | 
acts on ! 

ve a from zoning ordinances as, for example, when jacinto port 

co get a } wanted to put the fragnation plant out there on the jacinto | 
= 

§ your port property. They had to go to the board of adjustment | 

2, you 1 to get a so called exception from the zoning ordinance, did 

i they not? 
>r an ot 

| : 
EF 3 iA I am sure this is correct. 

- grant & | : | 

Q The next on the list if the air conditioning board. | 

| | 
| Is that appointed by the City, iteelf? 

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| A Yes. But there are some requirements that -- I don't board 

have the srdinance in front of me. There are some specific : A 

. regulations as to who goes on there. In other words, it has appli 

i to be someone who is familiar with the air conditioning or to do 

| refrigeration -- in other words, you don't pick someone who | is to 

doesn't know anything ahout that. of bu 

iQ What does this board do? | condi 

| A Well, they screen the applicants for refrigeration and | the C 

| air conditioning licences, as I understand it. F condi: 

Q Well, let me read something to you and ask you if this is MR. BI 

sounds approximately correct. i 
The qualifications for membership on this would be ] condiy 

one, air conditioning refrigeration mechanic who is mominated 4 MR. Al 

| by the Mobile Chapter of Refrigeration Service Engineers & 

| Society. One person whose principal business is registered ; Tell t 

air conditioning and heating firm nominated by the Mobile | A 

Mechanical Contractors Association. One who is nominated by | would 

Mobile Air Conditioning Contractors Association. One | altera 

independent practicing mechanical engineer registered in the | Hi distri 

State of Alabama and one representative of the public. | f | and yo 

Does that sound about right? : altera 

A It sounds like it is. L assure 

iQ Now, the next one is the architectural oiiuh i are co 

THE COURT: 3 : ie Soci 

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NORE SE Gn OE 
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Wait a minute. I didn't get the function of that 

don ' board. 

fre | A That board, as I understand it, your Honor, screens | 

has applicants for air conditioning licenses and what not, anything 

a) to do with air conditioning and refrigeration. The purpose 

"ho | is to make sure we have qualified people to come to our places 

of business or your homes. In the event you call an air | 

| conditioning man you can be assured, if he is functioning in 

on and | | the City of Mobile, he is qualified to work on your air | 

' conditioning and not flim-flam you, so to speak. | 

E this i © | MR. BLACKSHER: | 

k Your Honor, I don't think that guarantees my air | 

e E conditioning work, does it? 

ated : MR. ARENDALL: | 
i The next on the list is architectural review board. | 
[iA 

ed ¢ | Tell us what that does. | 

: | A Back to the architectural review board, the board | 

1 by | would review the plans on any remodelling projects or any | 

alterations to any building that might be in a historic | 

the) ; | district. The City of Mobile has several historic districts | 

| : and you have to go before this board before you can make any £ 

| alterations to a building in these districts and this is to | 
3 : 

Ad || assure that the district remains historic and all the buildings 

8 | are compatible with the period, whichever period you may be | 

EL | ON Ne NE A UN MS LT I AHR WR LER TE RB IRREP LL Tok Sena 

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| member of the audiotorium board? 

| 836 5 | 
i & — : 

35 | A 

dealing with, and again these members are from specific ( | 

organizations such as the historic development commission hag po 

a member. The preservation society and various other 

neve 
organizations make recommendations to us as City Commissioners 

and we appoint to this board. i | 
i 

as G 
Q The American Institute of Architects is also | 

| | chat 
recommended to you by the Mobile Association of Architects? | | 

i the 1 

A This is correct. 

| bran 
Q Next on the list is the audiotorium board. 

I 2 | 
A Well, the audiotorium board is an active board and HE | 

| Te ! | 
time 

| it is set up to assist the Commissioner in charge of the i 

| x I Mr. 
| operations of the audiotorium as well as the City Commstanion | 
| 
L ll firs: 
|' in the operation of the audiotorium that serves the entire I 

 commmity. | 9 

I! | boarc 
lL Q Of the twelve members are three black? i 

5 | peop: 
A I am sure that is right. 3 

Ha t in pa 
THE COURT: i 

. : " appo1 
That is what the Exhibit shows. Be 

3 i A 
A It varies, from tine to time. I think there have been | & | 

Be l to bc 
more and there have been less. i | 

B | know, 
MR. ARENDALL: E | 

x. | know 
There has been some reference in this case to Mr. Garly k I 

| . 
i 31 | perfc 

Cooper who has testified. Was Mr. Cooper, at one time, a : iE Pp 

A I serve 

a si 
  

. 819 

   



836 # on die p21) 

| A Yes, he was. I appointed him.   
Q How did he happen to get appointed? | 

n hag 
{ 

A Well, Mr. Cooper walked into my office one day. 1 had 

never seen him before in my life. 
ionerns 

He was tall, handsome, black man and introduced himself 

|   as Gary Cooper and I said, "I am glad to know you." We 

; |, chatted for a few minutes. He said he had just returned from 
ts 

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the military. He had been a major in the Marines or whatever 

branch of the service he was in and we had a nice long chat. 

He expressed an interest in civic affairs and the next 

i : time an appointment came open on the board I appointed 

¥ Mr. Cooper to the audiotorium board which, I think, was his 

| 5 | first civic appointment after returning from the milit:.-v 

i Q Mr. Mims, is it fair to say that on many of these 

  

    
| 

g | boards and committees it 1s difficult for the City to get 

| people willing to serve and if someone will show some interest 

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' in participation in civic affairs they likely can get 

+ appointed to most anything they want to? 

Il A This is correct. We look for people we can appoint 
e been 

| 

| to boards and commissions. You just don't go out and, you 

| know, reach in the sky and get a name of someone, you don’   know a thing about or don't know anything about their | 

i & | performance or don't know that they even have a desire to 
: il 

Hi 
| serve. 

  

  
 



  

  

  
  
  

  

  

    

  

  

We try to put people on these boards that have an 

interest in the particular area of responsibility and people 

who are willing to serve. 

Q What is the Mobile beautification board? 

THE COURT: 

Does the City appoint all members of the audiotorium 

board? 

A Yes, your Honor. 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

A If I might add, we try to divide these between the 

three commissioners. If there is twelve members on the board 

then four would have been appointed by one commissioner and 

four by the other and so on. You ask about another board? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

The Mobile beautification board? 

A Well, the Mobile beautification board was set up several 

years ago to do just what it says it does, try to beautify 

the City and make it more beautiful and engage the community 

in civic pride and clean up programs and things such as this. 

Q Does it largely relate to shrubbery and things of 

that sort, or what?   A Well, it has had, as its projects on a number of 

occasions, the planting of shrubs along various boulevards | 

  
  

= | To. aed |     

  

  

  

  

  

 



  

    

  

  
    
    

an { | in different sections of the City, yes. | 

=ople . Q Mobile bicentennial..... | 

fd THE COURT: 

| I want to know who appoints these, each one of them? 

E A The City Commission. 

S>rium Fr THE COURT: | 

} All right. Go ahead. 

| | MR. ARENDALL: 

: | Q Mobile bicentennial community committee. Who appoints 

the A The Mobile City Commission set up this committee 

board, for the specizl purpose of celebrating our bicentennial and 

and & | they have been quite active during the past year and, :t 

ard? : point, they are phasing out and cease to be after this year. 

: | Q Central City Development Authority. What is that? 

+ [A This is a fairly new organization that has been set 

p saveral f up to try to rejuvenate the downtown area of the City as wall 

ify y | as an area just west of the downtown corridor and it reaches 

unity # | out to the loop area and it is very astive in trying to 

this. ig ! restore a lot of the area that could. on the other hand, 

of p | deteriorate. 

: Q Mr. Mims, I notice from Exhibit 64 that at least, at | 

£ | Be ! the time that we gave that information to the Plaintiffs, 

| 

: I dE. 
rds | = i that committee only had one member. Has it gotten any more 

| 

  
 



  

  

    

  

  

  

  

since then or do you knew? 

A Well, yes. There are several. In fact, one of the 

members, I think, just passed away. The president of Gayferd 

was on it, I know, and Mr. Van Antwerp is a member and Mr. 

-- the man with Title Insurance. 

Q ~ Goebil? 

A Goebil is a member and I think the three City 

Commissioners serve on this authority, also. 

Q And the downtown Mobile Unlimited, as a director? 

A Yes. He is on it. 

THE COURT: 

All appointed by the City? 

A Yes. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Q This, basically, is suppose to have representation of 

people who have business interests in the central City? 

A This is correct. 

Q Board of examining engineers? 

A Well, I don't have the Exhibit in front of me, but 

this is another one of those similar to the air conditioning 

board. There are specific requirements that go with these   appointments. You have to have engineers and representatives 

| I 

of these various groups. 

Q Membership is appointed by the City? 
  oe 

  

  
    

  
    

  
  

  

11 

   



on of 

  
    

  

  

  

    

A Yes. 

Q But it is with reference primarily for people getting 

licenses to engage in the business of practicing electricity 

here, doing electrical work, is that the purpose of it? 

A Did you say electrical? 

Q I am sorry. Engineers? 

A This has to do with stationary engineers, I think. 

THE COURT: 

Stationary engineers? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

I see what it is. Would the qualifications for 

membership on this be a practicing engineer having not less 

than five years active experience in a management of staticaac,; 

engines and boilers? 

A Right. 

Q I guess this is sort of a safety group, as far as 

whatever stationary engineers are? 

A Let me give you an example. The jail, we have boilers, 

and we cannot operate those boilers unless a stationary 

engineer is on duty and that is to keep the:thing from 
| 

blowing up. | 

| 
Q The next thing is the board of electrical examiners. 

Is that appointed by the City? 

A Yes, it is. 
  

  
  324. gs ie



  

  

  

  

  

842.   
  

Q My notes indicate that the qualifications here are 

appointed by the Mobile Electric and IBEW number five zero 

five, which is a union and by Alabama Power Company; is that 

right? 

A This is correct. 

Q : What do they do? 

A Well, they examine applicants for electrician 

licenses. In other words, we want to make sire that the 

people who have a license to do business in the City of 

Mobile are qualified and they have to go before this board 

and they are questioned by people who know something about 

electricity. 

Q The next one on the list is Citizens Advisory Group 

for the mass transit technical study. Is that appointed by 

the City Commission? 

A Yes, it is. That was in compliance with some State 

' and Federal highway administration regulations and this 

group is not active any longer, as I understand it. 

Q That has been taken over, its function, I suppose, 

have been taken over by this new transit authority that has 

been established? 

PA Well, not necessarily. This had to do with major 

arteries and these people represented the community and looket 

into the plans and did research and discussed the impact. 

    .. 925.   

  

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This artery -- I think we are talking about the Congress 

- Donald Street artery.   n
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ee that   community and so forth and so on. To the best of my know-   
ledge, it has served its purpose and is no longer active. 

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 Q I am not sure, Mr. Mims, that I understand, because 

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the next list on here, the next on this list is Citizens 

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Advisory Committee, Donald - Congress - Lawrence Street and 

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Three Mile Creek freeway, is that the same group as the     
    

    
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4 | mass transit study technical group, are they the same? | 
p : | 

L | 
A No. I had the two confused. The one I had talked | 

1t | 

h about, that had served its purpose. I am talking about the 

i Congress, Donald group. 
yup § : 
5 i Q You had determined what the location of that freeway 

y | 
' would be and that kind of thing? 

A Right. | 
ate 

h/ Q What about the other one, advisory group for the 

+ | 

Ed | mass transit technical study? 

ry | | 
HH tA Well, that is some of our staff people, if my memory! 

3 AR I! 
’ Ei | 

i I serves me correctly. I think Mr. Peavy serves on that | 
as x | | 

i J committee and various technical staff people. | 

i | 
= Q The Exhibit indicates there are eight members of 

- i re | : 

x 
; | whom three are black. Does that help refresh your memory 

looked ge A | 
5 ! on that?   
 



  

  

  
  

  

            

  
      

    

: i 

oe 

: | #5 844 i 
cont 

) | A 4 couldn't tell you, to save my life, who they are. A 

. |! So, you will have to pass on that one.. I am sorry. Q 

Q The next one is the codes advisory committee. Is the 

that appointed by the City Commission? ani 

i Yes, it is, SOUR 

| Q Does that committee relate to drawing up codes, as A 

' far as building chdas are concerned? Q 

| A - This is correct. Is t] 

j Q Mr. Mims, I believe I am going to give you a copy of | A 

| this Exhibit 64, if I may, so it might help you remember Q 

| what each of these organizations are? A 

| A Well, we often say we have fifty-seven varities here conn 

on these boards. So, it is kind of confusing. for 

| Q I will ask you if the qualifications for membership and 1 

' on the codes advisory committee; an architect, one structural chang 

| engineer, a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers. dealis 

| one mechanical engineer, a member of the society of heating Nat te: 

and refrigeration engineers, one electrical engineer, a 

| member of the American Institute of Electrical Engineers and proble 

i the engineer of the city of Mobile; one member of the Building need {1 

Trades Council; one member of the Association of General Q 

Contractors; one member from the Mobile Home Builders a Mobi 

| Association; and one member from the Mobile Real Estate elsewh 

| Association; and one member of the Mobile Air Conditioning 

S32) Ee            



  

          
  

  

      
      

  

    

      

£ 
| 843 : Eth Sie in ot ai EERE Re - 

eR po 
% , contractors. Does that sound about right to you? 

e. 4 i A Yes, it does. 

$ | Q Now, actually, these building codes normally follow | 

gy ! the so called southern building code, as worked up in 

v municipalities all over the south and perhaps all over the | 

country, do they not? 
| 

8 i A This is correct. is i 

A | Q The next on the list is the commission on progress. 

: Is that appointed by the City Commission? | 
of | A Yes, it is. 

Q What is it? | 
| A The commission on progress is actually a bi-racial | 

ere | committee and that was the title or the name of the count :x25 

| for many years, a bi-racial committee of the City of Mobile, | 
ip | and it was at my suggestion a number of years ago that we | 
ural & | change the name to Commission on progress, because wi were | 

cers. i: | dealing with a lot of matters other than race oriented | 
ng he | matters. 

| 
E Originally it was set up to deal with the race | 

and 3 | problems in our commmity and, over the years, met a great | 
1ding X need in the community, 

i | Q Now, did it, for example, have anything to do with 

a Mobile restaurant downtown being integrated before they Teh 

%. || elsewhere in the State? 
| oo as 1   
 



    

  
        

    

  

  

  

A Yes, they were. o 

MR. BLACKSHER: b 

Your Honor, I object to counsel testifying. 

MR. ARENDALL: 3 

I think it was leading. 

Q I will ask you, were there any informal discussions 

and arCanpenents made that did lead to the integration of 

downtown lunch counters? ; 

A Yes. 

Q At what point in time did that occur with reference 

to other cities in Alabama? : 

A Well, it was during the sixties when there were a 

lot of turmoil not only in this community but in many 

commmities and this bi-racial committee as it was known at 

that time, worked long and hard to assure that black people 

would have free access to any place they desired to go, not 

only restaurants, but we had, one time, a man working to 

see that blacks were hired in the banks and in the savings 

and loan businesses and in the downtown businesses and we 

put in these responsible places. 

Q Those efforts have your personal support and assis- 

tance? 

A Well, absolutely. 
  

  329   went to a great deal of effort to see that black people were] 

846 

  
  

  
  

  

      

       



  

  

        
       

      
  

UBER J . 1/7 + em ee \ i eS me stg Sen eis 1 84 

THE COURT: 

2 Just a minute. Who appointed the code advisory, 

4 the City? 

: A Yes, sir. 

bl THE COURT: | 

ons bs Commission on progress, the City? | 

33 3 A Yes. 

MR. ARENDALL: : 

i Q The next one is the educational building authority. | 

ance | Who appoints it? 

A This is no doubt a City appointed board, because if 

a | I am not mistaken it is ome of these propositions where this 

| board is used as a vehicle whereby financing can be obtainea 

n at | for educational purposes. I am not sure if this is the | 

ople | University of South Alabama group or which group, but we 

not have several, if my memory serves me correctly that we 

0 i appoint three to five members to this authority and then 

ngs | bonds are sold and this educational facility retires those 

we i bonds. 

were | ! Q You think this must be one of the industrial zovens 

| agencies where they get approval of the city and get themselves 

gisg- incorporated and they sell tax exempt bonds in aid of a | 

public welfare type of program? 

A Yes. 

      330 

a
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  a hh 8 

Q Mobile area public higher education foundation? 

A This would be the same type of entity set up strictly 

for -- as a vehicle where these funda can be obtained in 

the facility built for public use. 

Q Find Arts Museum of the South at Mobile. Membership 

there appointed by the City Commigsion? 

A Yes. And normally we appoint pepple who are interested 

in fine arts, people who express interest in the museum and 

in some cases, people who have made sizeable contributions 

to art in the museum in Mobile. 

Q This 1s the committee that is in charge of running 

what we use to call the art gallery in municipal park; isn't 

that correct? . 

A This is correct. 

Q Are the nominees for it submitted by the Mobile 

Art Association, the allied arts council, the art partons 

league, the art gallery board and the Mobile County 

Commission and the City Commission? 

A This is correct. 

Q Fort Conde Plaza development authority. Is it 

appointed by the city? 

A Yes, it is, and this is an unusual arrangement. The 

three City Commissioners serve on this authority as well as 

four other people who represent the interests within that 

      331 —— 
  

48 

  

  

  
       



  

    

    

  

  
        

; i B40 
at 848 

plaza. In other words, some of the owners of property or 

representatives of owners of property and, in one case, 

rictly 
Mrs. Bester Ward represents the Fort Conde Charlotte House, 

n | 
which is a historic museum within that complex. The purpose 

of this authority is to promote that plaza area. 
rship 

Q And to get private industry and businesses to 

% develop things that would be consistent with the historical 

terested x ; 

i | area? 
and HE 

THE COURT: 
ons 

This Exhibit only reflects four members. I assume | 
: | 

$ i then that you left off the City Commissioners that had | 
ng 

! membership? 
isn't 

oA Apparently, your Honor. 

THE COURT: | 

All right. 

MR. ARENDALL: 
| 

ms | 

Q Mobile Historical Development Committee. Is that | 

appointed by the City? | 

A Yes, it is. We have certain stipulations as to | 

who goes on there. In other words, various groups make | 

recommendations, normally people interested in historic | 

| | i 

| development. | 
, The 

Q Let me read some names to you and see if this sounds 

|1 as 
£ about right. The Allied Arts Council, the American | 

1at ta 
! 

ece————— 4 332.   
 



85 
  

Association of University of Women, American Institute     of Architects, Art Patrons League, Colonial Danes, Three 

City Commissioners, County Board of Realtors, Mobile Jaycees), 

Women's Architectural League, downtown Mobile Unlimited, 

Fort Conde Charlotte House, Colonial Danes, Historical Mobilp 

Preservation Society, Historic Mobile Tours, Ing., Jaycettes| 

Junior League, Chamber of Commerce, County Board of 

Commissioners, Oakleigh Garden Society and Richard's DAR 

House, does that sound about right? 

A Yes. 

Q Independence Day celebration committee? 

A Well, this is a committee that has been appointed by 

the City Commission that started back in 1972 when we decided 

we need to have an Independence celebration every year. This   committee puts on the 4th of July celebration held at Ladd 

Stadium. 

Q How many people did you have this yest? 

A We had thirty-five thousand people.’ 

THE COURT: 

How many does that Ladd Stadium hold? 

A About forty-six thousand, something like that. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

The next one is the Industrial Development board. 

Is this another one of these financing arrangements? 

333 

          -—.            



  

DAR 

nted by 

decide 

*. Thi 

Ladd 

ard. 

  

850 

  

| 851 
  

  

  

    

A Yes, it is. 

Q The next is the Malaga Day Committee, is that ..... 

THE COURT: 

If you don't mention who appoints them, I assume   
the City appoints them. 

MR. ARENDALL:   Yes, sir. 

Q Mr. Mims, unless the City does not appoint them, let 

us know, otherwise I won't even ask you the question. We 

will just assume the City appoints them. 

A On this Malaga Day Committee, I am not sure that | 

is even still in existence. It could be or could not be. 

We have a sister city's program and Malaga, Spain 

is one of our sister cities and we have had some celebrations 

here called Malaga Day celebrations and I am not even sure 

that committee is still funding. 

  Q If members were a group who went to Malaga in 1965 

and got the sister city thing going..... | 
| 

| 
{ 

A They have been the prime movers of this Malaga Day 

program. 

Q The Mobile Housing Board. Now, that is a highly 

significant group, is it not?   
A The Mobile Housing Board is one of the most important 

boards that we have and simply because it provides public 
      3343 4



  
  

    
  

  

  

housing and meets the need of so many people in the 

community. This is one of our most important boards. 

Q And I asked you about that, of course, in my earlier 

examination? 

A Yes. 

Q Next is the Mobile Medical Clinic Board - psychiatrig. 

Is this another one of these internal revenue bond organiz- 
- 

ations? 

A It is a vehicle for financing. 

Q Yes. And the Mobile Medical Clinic Board, Tranquil 

Aire, that was a vehicle for financing the building where 

Tranquil Aire is located? 

A Yes. 

Q The Port City Medical Clinic Board. That is another 

such organization, is it not? 

A That is correct. 

Q The next is Mobile Medical Clinic Board, Springhill. 

A Yes. This is correct. If I might add here, your 

Honor, the City Commission has very little, if anything, to 

do with these boards once we make these appointments. 

In other words, we have recommendations made to us 

and we try to put responsible people on these boards and 

once the financing is arranged then really there is nothing 

— gad 
        more for us to do. So, we have a lot of -- it looks like 

335 -— 

  
| 

  

  

  

         



  

sarlier 

*hiatric. 

yaniz- 

inquil 

ere 

another 

1ghill. 

your 

  

  
  

852 

  

  

    

a lot of boards here, but some of them we don't have much 

to do with. 

Q Mr. Mims, I will ask you if this isn't a typical   way, three doctors decide they want to start a hospital and 

they want to arrange financing through tax exempt bonds and | 

they come to the City Commission and say that three of us   
are getting ready to build another hospital at such and such! 

a place and we need one of these industrial revenue boards 

created. Would you appoint the three of us or maybe they 

say our accountants or our lawyers, some People to go in that 
| 

they designate and y'all do what they ask you to do? | 

1 

. This is the way that works. 

Q The Medical Clinic Board of the City of Mobile 

Medical Clinic Board, - second, that is the same kind of | 

thing? | 

A Right. | 

Q The Mobile Medical Clinic Board, the same kind of | 

thing? | 

A Right, | 

Q Now, we come to the Mobile Library Board. Is that 

appointed by the City? 

A Yes, it is, and it is with the Commissioner ‘in charge 

of the operation of the libraries. 

Q How much money does the City contribute to the | 

          

853 

796 Ga bu SHS



  
  

i 

| 

  
  

  

      

libraries here, do you know? 

A Several hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't 

have that figure in front of me, seven or eight hundred 

\ 
\ 

thousand dollars a year. 

Q Greater Mobile Mental Health Retardation Board. That 

is another one of those industrial development bond boards, 

is it not? 

A Well, not necessarily. I think this is a require- 

ment of the Federal government that we set up such a board 

and these Federal funds are channeled down through this board 

and then allocated to Mental Health and other things. 

Q Does the City Commission appoint the members? 

A Yes. 

Q Is this the group that works in conjunction with the 

rotary clinic or elsewhere? What agency....... 

A Well, they work with the Mobile Mental Health Center 

I know that, and I suppose any other organization that was 

in this business of helping the handicapped and they would gt 

to this board and clear any application or what-not that the 

might have as far as federal funds are concerned, kind of 

a screening board, as I understand it, to try to bring it in 

Ha itis ine 3 

J
   

altogether to keep things from going in every direction. If 

I am not mistakened, this is a fairly new arrangement here. 

Q Pier and Marina committee? 

      337   

  

  
  

  

: 

commis: 

of the 

today 1 

that tc 

some of 

Q 

fire ch 

the pol 

on it a 

     



  

  

  

        

| | 
i 

| 

| | 855 
bo: sbiion | : | 

| 
: 

| 

A Well, at one time, we had wanted to build a public | 

| marina over here just this side of the battleship and we had 
on't | 

! high hopes of it becoming a reality until we ran smack into | 
i | | 

| the EPA people and they put such a damper on us, you might | 

say, that the committee has already served its purpose and 
That i 

| we didn't accomplish anything. 
ards, 

Q The Mobile Planning Commission? 

A The Mobile Planning Commission is an important 
ire- ; 

A commission, because it has to do with zoning and the planning 
board : 

5 of the City and many of the improvements that are being made 
.8 board a : 

i || today in the City of Mobile are end results of planning | 

: that took place ten years ago. 

A Q All right. Policemen and fire fighters pension 

|| and relief fund board? 
[th the , 

4 A Well, this board, as I understand it, administers the 

Fd funds and tries to get as much return on the money as they 
Center), . 

can so that they can meet the obligations of the fund. 
Fr was 4 i 

5 Q Is this created under State act? 
sould go 5 

1 A I am not sure about that. I really am not. I know | 
hat they : 

some of the people who serve on it, but I am not sure. 
d of 

Q I will ask you if this sounds right to you that the 
g it in 

fire chief is designated in an act creating the board and that 
en.  1f : 

the police chief is designated and that there are three bankers 
here. | 5 

3 on it and one man owning his business and one who has his | jo 

ec Stas | a8,   
 



  

  

own investment business, the basic purpose of this is to 

see to the proper investment of the funds that are ultimately 

to be paid out for pensions and relief for policemen and 

fire fighters? 

A This is correct. 

Q Next is the Mobile Tree Commission? 

A Well, this is an important commission. If you want 

to get a tree cut, because you had better not cut one unless 

you go through them. We usually try to put people on this 

committee or commission that is interested in preservation of 

trees and I think it is a good committee and they work awfully 

hard to preserve the beauty of our City, namely our trees. 

Q Next is the Neighborhood Improvement Council? 

A Neighborhood Improvement Council, no doubt has done 

as much or more than any other group to improve our neighbort 

hoods. They go into the neighborhoods and have meetings, 

encourage the property owners to upgrade their property, to 

clean up, fix up, paint up, and it is quite an active group. 

Q Mr. Mims, there has been some testinony here from 

residents of various areas of the City with reference to 

what they feel are inadequacies in City services in their 

own areas? 

A Yes. ; ;   
Q Is this an agency that relates itself to that proble 

  

        _. 339 

  

         



8 to 

ltimatel 

and 

ou want 

e unless 

n this 

vation of 

rk awfully 

trees. 

aas done 

neighbort 

~ings, 

=rty, to 

Je group. 

= from 

~e tO 

their     
at proble 

    

  

  

or not? 

A Well, the neighborhood improvement council has 

commmity meetings and they run articles in the medium and 

in the newspapers. Usually they will have the community 

that they are having the meeting in, the blow up of the map 

-- say it is going to be the Dog River area where I live or   
the South Brookley area, they would have a map of that area | 

and they would they are going to have a neighborhood | 

improvement meeting in that area and every citizen in that 

area is encouraged to come and express themselves, at that 

particular meeting, and they go into things like the code, 

what you need to do to bring your house up to standard,   
up to the code, and help people know how to improve the .:- 

dwellings and their living conditions, and much has been 

done in these communities because of the neighborhood 

improvement council. 

Now, they also, for instance, say they go into a 

community and citizens complain about the lack of street 

lights. Then Mr. Locke, who is the secretary of this 

improvement council, he would come back and write me a memo 

as public works commissioner in charge of the street lights, 

and say last night we met in Cottage Hill, or wherever it 

might be, and we found, in a certain area, the street 

  lighting, in our opinion, is not up to the City policy or 
        340 [ 

SRB— 3. 2



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es
 

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not lighted in accordance with our policy then we would, 

  

  

the City standard. Then I would direct the electrical 

superintendent to go and make a survey of this area, come 

back then and give me his recommsndation and if the area was 

as rapidly as we could, light the area in accordance with 

the City's policy... 

Q What is the City's policy? 

A On street lights? 

Q Yes. 

A We have a light on every corner and every two hundre 

and fifty feet down the street or mid-block, or at the 

end of dead ends, which is adequate lighting, and we receive 

an award last year as being one of the best lighted cities 

in the United States. 

Q Mr. Mims, I have references here to three different 

organizations, the names of which appear to me to be somewhat 

similar. 

We have been talking about the Neighborhood 

Inprovement Council that is headed by Mr. Joe Locke. There 

is a community service group, is there not? 

A Well, no.. There may be a service community group, 

but you may have that confused with a program that I 

{nstituted a number of years ago that I call community 

’ 

service meetings. ; 

dex 
4 

          _. 941     

  

     



  

  
  

  

a Ea ee 2 i 1nse 
eis 43% fT) 

4 q What is that? 
al 5 . 

g [A Well, this is a program whereby I go into the 
, come 4 

3 neighborhoods with members of my staff, primarily, and on 
area was & ; 

1d % : occasion we take someone répresenting the police and 
Du " = i . 

Ltn 4 : fire department and the parks department and other depart- 
e wit i | 

| ments, but primarily people from public works and we go 
ss ! 

. | 

Ei) into the communities and have a meeting at a school or parks 

building or community building, somewhere centrally located | 
o | 

as we could in the community and invite the public to these 
; | 

wo hundred meetings and try to get input from the public and then go | 

th back and try to respond as rapidly as we can to the requests 
e 

i 

f the people. 
re received Of:the people 

  

| cities 3 Q What is the difference between the neighborhoc- 
c & ; 

: improvement council and your community service meetings or | 

E do they just overlap? 
jifferent 4 

| 

mewhalt g A Well, they could overlap, but the neighborhood 
ye BO y h | 

improvement meetings are -- they deal primarily with the 

  

upgrading of the homes, of the residences in a given area : | 
.. There ] where the community service meetings deal mostly with the | 

: needs from a public works standpoint. | 

 2iolp ‘ In other words, the drainage problems, the lighting 

1 E problems, the street problems, sanitation services and Sings 

atey like this. What I was trying to do when I initiated this 

program several years ago was to get input from the people, 
      11k EA a     
 



  

  

      

  

  

  
  

  

  
  

  

  

    

| 

oh% ad ai 

because it has been my sincere desire all along to meet the ward n 

; | need of this community regardless of who they are or where and nc 

they live. The only way to know the needs is to get out 

in the community and hear from the people. area ‘c 

The television people and more specifically, WKRG, | weeks 

| for a period of a year or two, went to everyone of these | Q 

feet iis and taped these meetings and played a portion of A 

| the meetings back at a later date and they were not only few we 

viewed, -- the programs were viewed by the whole community. have t 

In other words, if we met in Toulminville, for instance, the la 

then the next Sunday ' or whatever, the whole area could see comm 

that we had had a meeting. And I might say, speaking of the it ap 

| Toulminville meeting, if I might, we have a swimming pool 1s gol: 

at Gorgas Park today and it is solely because of the idea that 4 Q 

was brought up at one of these commmity service organization simila: 

| meetings and I came back to the City Commission with the 4 A 

idea and the City Commission approved it and, today, the City o: 

i kids are out there swimming this afternoon because of that. x organi: 

| Q Do you have these meetings, then, in the black areas $ We are 

| as well as in the white? 4 develor 

| A Yes. It has been my policy to have them in every g 

| area of the City. In fact, we took the old ward map and | 1 called 

tried to put about three wards together and have a meeting | 1 ments 

in an area that would cover about three wards and then the & 

| gg? 5 a            



of the 

pool 

860 

idea that 

nizatio 

the 

the 

that. 

k areas 

n 

  
    

  

861 
  

ward map was changed and so we quit using the old ward map 

and now we just go to different areas. 

Last week I made Trinity Episcopal Church in an 

area called the Chapman Improvement area. Three or four 

weeks ago I met with a group out in the Carver Court area. 

Q That is a black area? 

A Which was a predominantly black area and then, a   
few weeks prior to that, we met with another group -- I will 

have to get my records to tell you where I have been over ; 

the last months, but we have periodic meetings out in the 

community with the people and, in addition to that, I make 

it a point to ride in these commmities myself to know what 

  is going on. 

Q As long as I am asking you about things with somewhat 

similar names, what is the community development program? | 

A Well, the community development program of the | 

City of Mobile is certainly not to be confused with another | 

organization known as the community development project. 

We are talking about now the City of Mobile's community 

development program. 

This is a program set up and we have a committee 

called the community development committee to make improve- 

ments in the communities throughout Mobile, taking advantage 

        _ 34a  



  

862 
  

of Federal funds. 

Now, these Federal Funds, at one time, were designated. 

You would get so many millions of dollars for this and so 

many for that. Congress changed all of that and now they 

send the money down in a block, one lump sum, and then we, 

      
  

  

    
        

as public local officials, have to make a decision on where 

these monies are to be spent. 

Now, in order for us to set priorities as three : 

elected commissioners, we have established this community 5 -Q 

development committee that holds meetings in the various 2 back t 

neighborhoods and we have set some priorities on these 

funds. So, this is what the community development program board. 

is. THE CC 

Q That is the program that is headed by Mr. Barnett, 3 

is it not? 3 

A He is one of the members of the committee. I think | 2 counci 

Jimmy Alexander may be is the chairman. 4 or sor 

Q The Housing Board man? : ; 1 with r 

A Yes. f : state 

What we did, if I might add, we put the planner, : A 

Mitch Barnett, the public words director, the Housing 3 THE COr 

Authority Executive Director, the finance director, as well 

as the building inspection department head on this to ask 

committee. 4 to thos 

~ 345 13          



  

  

          

20 ge oe em ER hr io mei ie a i BOF: 

We felt like we had a cross section of the people 

signated who were going to actually get the work done once we initiated 

| s0 it. These people are going to be held to be responsible 

hey for carrying out these projects. 

we, I am sure you have the map showing where all of 

where these projects are and where this money is going to be 

spent and I am sure that will be introduced later on during 
| 

e | this trial. i 

ity -Q All right. I think I left out here and let's go | 

us back to it. : 

I believe we are now on the plumbers examining 

gram board. | 

$ | m= cour: 

ett, E Just a minute. Let me ask him a question. 

4 With reference to this neighborhood improvement 

think i council, I understand there is some ordinance or regulation 

1 or something in a city with reference to requiring people -- 

1 with reference to their homes to keep them in a certain | 

state of repair and painted; is that correct? 

r, A This is correct. 

THE COURT: 

well 4 Now, if that is correct, then the question I want 

to ask you is this nelghiorhsod improvement council related 

i to those matters? 

iw aR | 336" gs a       
 



  

  

  
    

        

    

  

  
            

A Yes, it does, your Honor. : A 

MR. ARENDALL: £ Q 

The plumbers examining board. I will ask you if | A 

these qualifications sound about right. The chief plumbing Q 

inspector, one master plumber, a member of the mechanical | A 

contractor's association, one master plumber, a member of what 

the faster plumber 's association, one journeyman plumber and Tt § 

one representative of the publje? an a 

A This sounds correct. comm 

Q And this is with reference to the licensing of 4 Om; 

plumbers? 
: 

A This is right. : Mobi - 

Q The recreation advisory board. 1 see from Exhibit of Oe 

64 that members of that board's term expired in 1974 and and, 

they were not re-appointed. What was the purpose of that : 

board and what was the thinking about not te-appointing it? 4 are m 

A 1f my memory serves me correctly, the Commissioner 4 planr 

in charge of recreation, at that time, proposed this : other 

advisory board and if I am not aisvikenee, he recommended E THE C 

these names to the City Commission and we appointed them E | 

and they were to help him with his recreation program. Now, 4 right 

I did not come in contact with these people. A 

Q So, you think I had better ask Mr. Greenough about 3 MR. A 

that? ] 

ou: F Ii 

  

   



  

  

      

RR BE TT Sa SRE Sr yi beh ls hr el pit mn mick BES 

A I think you had better asked Mr. Bailey about that. 

Q Mr. Bailey was the one? 

n if | A Yes, sir. 

lumbing Q The South Alabama regional planning commission? 

nical A The South Alabama regional planning commission is 

er of what it says it is. It is a regional planning commission. 

mber and It is a three county operation and local officials, as well 

as appointed officials, serve on the regional planning 

commission and every application for Federal funding 

of comes through this regional planning commission. 

Now, what we have done, as far as the City of 

Mobile's government is concerned, we have appointed members 

xhibit of our regular City planning commission to this commission 

. and and, of course, you see the number there. 

that It says one black and six total members, but there 

ing it? are many blacks who serve on the South Alabama regional 

ssioner planning commission from the other cities and from the 

x other counties that are represented on this commission. 

mended THE COURT: 

them Total members of Mobile, though, is six; is that 

am. Now, right? 

A This is correct, your Honor. 

n. about MR. ARENDALL: 

RE I believe I have already asked you about the board 

Sioa 338           
 



      
    

  

    
    

866 
  

of water and sewer commissioners. 

Now, the employees insurance advisory board. 

A This board was set up to help the City Commissioners 

select the right kind of insurance program for our 

employees. We selected persons from the various departments 

to serve on this board and to screen all insurance programs 

before these programs are presented to the City Commission 

for approval. 

For instance, if xyz company were to come to my 

office this afternoon and say, look, we have a fantastic 

plan and it is going to cost three dollars a month and 

blah blah blah, and we want to put it on payroll deduction 

and we would send this xyz company before this board and 

let this board screen them and then if the board, representi 

all of the emplcyees, thought that this was a fantastic 

deal and they wanted it and they would bring it to the City 

Commission and say we think this is great and we know these 

' 

ng 

people can get more than the amount required. We have to have 

three hundred before we put anything on payroll deductions. 

And we say, okay. The committee approved it. You go out 

and get your three hundred and dom't come back until you 

have your three hundred, because we are not going to put 

it on payroll deduction. 

THE COURT: 
        _ 349   

  

  

  
housir 

impor# 

City c 

black 

THE CC 

carees 

A 

and s= 

       



  

  
  
  

Soke : 867 

I lost out on the board of water and sewer 

commissioners. 

ssioners MR. ARENDALL : 

1 guess we can come back to that, Judge. This is the 

Rrtments organization established under state law, which runs sani- 

EOgrams tary sewer and water for the city and, indeed, some outlying 

ission areas, doesn't it? 

A This is correct. I might add, in addition to the 

my housing board, this is, without a doubt, one of the most 

Stic important boards that we have, because every family in the 

nd City of Mobile 1s affected by this board and we could have one 

muetion black gentleman on this board. 

ahd THE COURT: 

presenting | Although it is established by state law, does the 

tic City make the appointments? 

he City A Yes, sir. We make the appointments. 

W Shee] THE COURT: 

ve to have All right. 

ctions. MR. ARENDALL: 

o out This is the board that Mr. Von Sprecken is chief 

you career man on; isn't it? 

put A That's right. He is the superintendent of the water 

and sewer board. 

fos 
T co J50 1           
 



  

    
      

  

      
  

MR. ARENDALL: 

We expect to have him here, Judge. 

All right. The next one is Mobile County Hospital 

Board and I have some notation on my copy of this Exhibit -- 

I am not sure it is on the original. It looks like your 

typing and it says "Owned by University of South Alabama. 

City ‘has no connection" . 

A I am not sure that this board. even functions any 

longer. You know, we turned the hospital over to the 

university and they operate it. We have no connection with 

it any longer. 

Q I see. Frank S. Keeler Memorial Hospital? 

A I think they are out of business, also. 

Q The Arts Hall of Fame committee. Do you know what 

that is? 

A Well, it looks like one member and I am not sure who 

that is unless it is the recreation commissioner. 

Q See if this sounds like a 1971 state act under which 

persons are to be elected to the State Arts Hall of Fame and 

|must have background in arts and the City Commissioner has 

appointed a representative of the Mobile Art Gallery Board;   does that sound about right? 

A It sounds about right to me. 

    
    85% 

| 
| 

o The next is Public Education Building authority. Is 

| 
|   

868 

        

that ar 

of emp] 

further 

co-opez 

might 

employe 

Jones w 

law, or 

City Co 

then wo 

in what 

have to 

three y 

money oO 

screen 

       



with 

1at 

> who 

Is 

    

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n
a
 

SE
 

S
A
S
 

SL
 

“a
 

R
E
E
 

A
 

A
R
 

a 
T
H
 Ly

 

869 
  

that another one of these industrial revenue bonds? 

A Yes. It is strictly a financing thing. 

Q And the educational board? 

A ~The educational board, no doubt here, is the group 

of employees that we have that screens the applicants for 

furthering their education. In other words, we try to   co-operate with our employees as much as we can so that they 

might further their education. 

In fact, the City Commission pays a portion of 

employees tuition, say, at the University and, say, patrolman 

Jones wanted to go to school at night and take up criminal 

law, or whatever, and he would make his application to the 

City Commission through this educational board and the boara 

then would screen this applicant and make sure he is sincere 

in what he is trying to do and we have requirements that you   
have to stay with the City "x" number of years. I think it ia 

three years after you get your degree or after you use this 

money or else you have to refund the money, but these boards 

screen these employees. : ' 

Q Members of that board are largely employees of the 

City, members of the public, or what type of persons? 

A As I recall it, they are employees, department heads, 

and maybe someone from the personnel board on here. 

Q Now, Mr. Mims, there has been a lot of testimony in 
  

  
      302  



  

  

  

          
  
        
  

        

p Sy gs Ta Se le lS os | 870 

here about surface drainage in Mobile. the Va 

THE COURT: , 

Why don't we take a break right here. Take about a E soils 

fifteen minute break. 
# "|| course 

(RECESS) draina 

THE COURT: 4 centur 

All right. You may proceed, & built 

MR. ARENDALL: «|| here n 

If your Honor please, I would like to apologize to i 

the Court on an error in judgement that I made. Mr. Mims had 5 | proble 

told me that at four-thirty that he had to leave here in order 4 tremens 

to get to Santa Rosa Island to speak to some three or fous and th 

hundred people. I told him that I thought we could have : areas ; 

completed the examination and cross-examination. I have | . of the 

taken so long with my direct today that I doubt if we make it 4 

THE COURT: EN nas be 

Just go ahead and let him finish up tomorrow. § but thi 

MR. ARENDALL: | recent. 

Thank you, Judge. 

Mr. Mims, your department has charge of Mobile drainage materia 

problems? my mair 

A That is correct. existec 

Q. Tell us generally about them and what you have done some ki 

and indicate whether or not you have sought to treat fairly 

__ 333            



bout a 

ze to 

Mims had 

in order 

four 

ave 

ave 

make it 

e drainag 

870 

je   
  

871 
  

  

the varios black areas. 

A Well, under the supervision of the public works 

commissioner, comes the general heading of drainage and, of 

course, the City of Mobile has been plagued with severe 

drainage problems for not only decades, but I would assume   
centuries. The ground or the topography here, the City is 

built on the river, as you know, and it all started right 

here near the river and moved westward. 

It is very low lying areas and we had Gremendous 

problems in the old part of Mobile with drainage. We have | 

tremendous problems in the new part of Mobile with erosion | 

and the sand washes down off of the hills into the low lying | 

areas and clogs up the drainage systems in the old sections | 

of the city. | 

So, for centuries we have had drainage problems. Thete 

has been a lot of talk about drainage for a number of years, | 

but there was not an awfully lot done about it until 

recently. : i | 

When I first ran for office in 1965 and my advertising 

material and my brochures will substantiate this, that one of | 

my main concerns was drainage and alleviating the problems that 

existed. So, the first thing I did was to try to establish 

some kind of systematic maintenance program and we gave 

          
| 
| 
| | 

| 
|



872 
  

    

  

instructions to the public works superintendent and to all 

drainage personnel that these drainage easements were to be 

maintained on a periodic basis. We bought some of the finest 

sgutpiatt. ena can be bought to clean catch basins and to clean 

storm drains. Some of the most modern equipment to clean 

ditches like Three Mile Creek and One Mile Creek and Bolton's 

Branch and Saltwater Branch and the various others -- what 

we call unimproved drainage easements and it has been our 

policy, over the last ten years, to maintain these easements 

on a regular basis and testimony here during this trial has 

indicated that the city has cleaned these drainage easements 

on a periodic basis. 

In addition to the maintenance program, the cleaning 

of these drainage easements, we have entered into what we 

call the master drainage program of the City of Mobile. For 

a number of years we tried to get into this and finally came 

to the conclusion that we were not going to ever get this 

drainage corrected until we just, you might say, go into it 

headlong and try to find the money and sell bonds and get the 

revenue or the bonds to do the projects. 

So, in 1972 the City Commission met and agreed to   
the master drainage program. We have sold bonds, millions of | 

dollars worth of bonds, to be paid over to the next number of 

years and we are making many improvements in areas of both | 

              TUES T=   
  

  

  

white an 

years, {i 

citizens 

the reson 

a long ws 

drainage 

and prome 

Q ): 

program? 

A Ta 

I imagine 

THE COURT 

| |S 

A |= 

and other 

to the pr 

MR. ARENDm 

you with 

A W 

engineeri- 

engineers 

three wate 
     



  

    
  

  
  

      

812 : AR 873 

all 4 white and black where problems have existed for over a hundred 

to be PE years, in some cases. 

finest I have gone into these communities and talked to our 

to clean ¢ || citizens, both black and white, about the problems and with 

ean : the resources available, I think the City of Mobile has come 

olton's a long way in improving the drainage in our city. Our master 

what : deatnage program, as far as I am concerned, has been initiated 

our and promoted without regard to race, whatsoever. | 

-ements Q Let's see, what is the total estimated cost of that 

1 has E 1 progres 

ements | 4 A Well, we started out with about twenty million, but 

i. I imagine, by 1980, we will have spent thirty million dollars| 

_eaning ; THE COURT: 

— we | What do you mean you started out? 

=. For 1 A Well, that was our projected program, but inflation 

-y came 3 and other things have caused prices to go up and we had added 

his ] to the project and ....... 

to it | : MR. ARENDALL: 

get the Do you have outside engineering consultants to advise 

you with reference to that, or is this done by city personnel? 

1 to 3 A Well, when we went into this program we assigned three 

dions of engineering companies to this master drainage program and thege 

amber of] 1 engineers have certain water sheds assigned to them. We have 

Poth | > 3 three water sheds in Mobile; the Three Mile Creek water shed, 

Th gO   
 



  

    

    

———— 

  

The Dog River - Eslava Creek water shed, and the Mobile River 

water shed. Every drop of water that falls into Mobile, goes 

into one of these three water sheds. 

Each one of these engineering firms, Polyengineering, 

David Volkhert and J. B. Conversing Company, have one of these   | water sheds assigned to them and they are doing the designing 

bi 
of the storm water system in these areas. We have made a 

| great deal of progress. 

| but what you can't see some of the progress that has been 

There is not an area in the City 

brought about because of this drainage program and, in the 

years between now and 1980, the program that can be presented 

here shows our projected projects. 

0 Has some work been done in each of the three water 

| 

| shed areas? 

A Yes. This is true.   HQ Approximately how much money have you spent so far on   
| actual out of pocket expenditures, to date? Could you give 

i   
| us that figure? : 

tl 
! 

|) 

A I can't recall, but it would be more than ten million 

\ 

{dollars has been spent already on the master drainage program. 

i 

|Q Do the engineers tell you that once it is completed 

|that Mobile will then be adequately drained? 
1 

A Well, I don't think you would ever find an engineer 

  

        357   | = 

| 8% 

  

  

or politician, either, that was in his right mind that would | 

  

say yc 

situat 

dously 

have w 

whole 

comple 

Q 

proble 

specif 

A 

right 

been t 

been t 

Vers b 

Q 

A 

area a- 

with s 

mentio:- 

to adm 

governs 

dollar: 

need ha 

THE COR 
     



ile River 

ile, goes 

rineering, 

1e of these 

designing 

pade a 

> City 

3 been 

in the 

presented 

p water 

so far on 

vou give   
en million 

ge program. 

pmpleted 

engineer 

hat would | 
ob I 

  

  

  

  

  

875 
  

Jn a —— 

} 

say you would always be protected from a storm or flooding 

situation. Normal flooding conditions will be eased tremen- 

dously when this entire program has been completed, but if yo 

have what they call a hundred year flood come, you know, the 

whole area could get under water. We can't protect the area 

completely from God's floods, you know. 

Q You mentioned some white areas that have had this 

problems and I would like for you to mention some of those 

specific locations, if you will, please. 

A Well, there is one project that we have under way 

right now that has -- where there is a need and the need has 

been there for a hundred years, I am sure. I know it has 

been there for over fifty years, because I know people who 

Vere born there fifty years or more ago. 

Q Where is that? 

A This is in the Laurel - Devitt - Monterey Street 

area and I might add that “we had a community meeting there 

with some people, including Mr. Brown, whose name has been 

mentioned here and other testimony and I think he would have 

to admit that he got mighty good response out of the City 

We're spending over a million government in this project. 

dollars This in the Monterey - Laurel - Devitt Street area. 

need has been there, as I said, for low many years. 

THE COURT: 

  
| | | 

  

    ass    



I am familiar with Monterey Street, which is between 

Springhill Avenue and Government Boulevard. Is that the 

Monterey area you are talking about? 

A Yés, your Honor.   | THE COURT:   Does it go also south of Government Street?     
A Monterey does.   

| MR. BLACKSHER: 

  
Yes, sir. One block. 

1 
| THE COURT: 
|B! | 

The area you are speaking of is north of Government? 

      
      

    

  

    
  

A Yes, sir. 
| 

| THE COURT: 

| All right. 

| MR. ARENDALL: 
i 

Now, let's talk about drainage and some of these other 

if A 

| areas that there has been some testimony about. There has bepn 48 

| 
& 

| some talk here about Trinity Gardens, that area came into the | Q 

; gE || Mi 
| city only in 1961, did it not? $ : 

| : & prob: 

HA I believe that is when the vote was taken by the 

A 

people in that area. It was in 1965, I believe, that services ; 

| ., you . 

were provided and the people began to pay taxes. gt 
: i i 

; E extrs 

Q Just in a general way, would you tell us what the 5 

FE end 

basic problem is there, as you understand it, with reference [O S 1 

— = EF of de 

oe |       
     



876 

between 

_ the 

sernment ? 

these other 

ere has bepen 

e into the   
y the 

at services 

at the 

| 

reference ko 

  

87 
  

  

drainage? 

A Well, I will be happy to, because I have been in the 

Trinity Gardens area many times and must confess that the 

problem there is an unusual problem and it is mainly because 

the area lies between some railroads and down in kind of a   
low land or flat land that has been described here, in Eesti 

mony, that was like a saucer, which is a good way to describe 

it, because it is going to take an awful lot of drainage to | 

get the water out of the area and we have been working on it 

over the years and, with our community development program 

that we mentioned here earlier, we should be able to drain 

this area and then we can move on into the paving of the 

streets. 

2 When it gets drained, where does the water go? On 

what water shed is it located? 

A This goes into the Three Mile Creek water shed.   
Q Isn't that going to compound your problems on Three 

Mile Creek that you heard testimony here about, the Crichton 

problem? Wouldn't that compound your problem? 

A Any time you put more water into a stream, I guess 

you compound your problems. However, we have worked 

extremely hard to get Three Mile Creek cleaned out on the 

end near the river and we have spent thousands upon thousands 
! 

of dollars dredging Three Mile Creek and we feel that, with 
        360  



    

an as | §: 

these improvements, as well as the study that is being made : SEAL 

now by the Corp of Engineers and, incidentally, this bill wag pavii 

just passed whereby a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in A 

planning money for the Corp of Engineers was set aside. oS 

The Corp of Engineers fit into this Three Mile Creek, § 

because Three Mile Creek runs into Mobile River and Mobile b igh 

% 
River is part of the Tennessee, Tom Bigby program. Anyway, £ ve 

we have a hundred and fifty thousand dollars planning money i ee 

and the Corp of Engineers is going to help us with the     
drainage on Three Mile Creek. 

Q There has been some talk, also, about drainage 

problems in the Plateau area. 

On what water shed is that? 

THE COURT: 

Where does Three Mile Creek run into Mobile River? 

  

  
  

A Well, it crosses Telegraph road north of here where 
5 prob] 

the little bridge is where you see some little tugboats E 

sitting there, right north of the State Docks, to be more 4 i 
fe * C ty 

specific. 
| Trin# 

THE COURT: 
area 

All right. 

MR. ARENDALL: # 

Going back to Trinity Gardens for just a moment. 3 
probl 

I understood you to say as soon as you could get your 
A ae Pe 4 

          361      



  

  
  

  

  
            

ann | §: vo 8178 

ing made § drainage worked out there, then you would go in with street 

S bil) wad gE .paving; is that right? 

lars in A This is correct and, if I might say this, one of 

id . Bx i 
2 A my concerns naturally has been the streets of Mobile and the! 

ils Crees, 14 only unimproved streets we have left within the city, you 

Mobil bi | 
9 S 8 might say, are located in the Trinity Gardens area. We have | 

Anyway, E: | 
ynay g paved dozens of miles of streets in the last ten years in 

ng money 4 
fi Mobile and we have a few left in Trinity Gardens. 

the & 
£ It is absolutely impossible for us to pave these 

) E 
| streets until we drain the area. We have paved some streets | fo E | 

age 
8 in Trinity Gardens,the ones we felt like we could pave and, 

you know, get by with, so to speak. Because it is absolutelw 

E money thrown away to go out and put asphalt in an area that | 

2 you can't dry out and the streets will stay torn up all the i 

River? 8 | 
T time and fail and you will have a problem, sure enough 

re where 3 | 
io problem, on your hands. - | 

oats x | 
8 So, we have just about paved every street in the | 

e more § 
4 City of Mobile with the exception of those right there in 

J Trinity Gardens which we hope to get as soon as we get the | 
R 

! 

E area drained as with these community development funds. 

4 Q Now, there has been some talk about Plateau. 

4 On what water shed is it, or does it have a drainage 

ment. 4 : | 
problem? 

d get your ; . 
CAS atte) | A Not what you would call a general drainage problem 

= az | 

 



  

  

      

  
  

    
    

    

i Fe AY ry ~-+--. 889 

like Trinity Gardens. I doubt if you could point to any place= 

community in the City and say it is completely free of all 

drainage problems. flash 

But Plateau does not have the general problem as doeg As fas 

Trinity Gardens. Q 

Q There was some talk here about dead bodies getting in tha 

washed away. Would you tell us about that, if you know | A 

anything about it? | To my 

Av I think that was an exaggeration. It was called to but tE 

my attention a year or so ago that there was a problem with vhat ¢ 

a cemetary. We did some work around this cemetary and some Shopp: 

of my staff people can elaborate on that more than I and get arose 

into detail on it, but we did do some work around the cemetary. Creek. 

I understand that this area was being used as a burying place ated. c 

down off the side of a hill and on down into what you might sod fi 

call a slew or spillway or drainage easement and I am sure 

| that in case of a flash flood or something of this sort, the the os 

whole area was covered with water and it is very likely that ate a} 

some of the grave sites were covered with water, because the millic 

| people are buried right on down into the low land. masta 

| I don't know where the health department has been, on a . 

whoever is supposed to regulate the cemetaries, but whoever ils 1 thin 

supposed to inspect cemetaries and regulate them, spparenely; Q 

were not stopping the burying of people down in these low 

T7363 Lai                



—- TT NSH EURIIERS R— SO —— ee   

places. 

I think you could safely say, in some places, when a 

flash flood came that the water, perhaps, covered the graves. 

1 
en as doed As far as bodies floating around, I think that is an exaggeration. 

    
Q There has also been some complaint about the drainage 

getting in the Crichton - Liberty Park area? 

know | A Yes. There is a tremendous problem in that area. 

| To my knowledge, it doesn't present any flooding problem, i 

called to but there is a big ditch that comes down through Crichton | 

lem with that originates up ‘about Pages Lane or back of Delchamps | 

and sone Shopping Center there and goes down by Nall Street and | 

I and get across Bayshore and Mobile Streets and on into Tpree Mile | 

he c . 
engtany Creek. It is a huge drainage easement. The people in the 

  
Ying place area continuously are filling it with old tires and litter 

ou might and furniture and the maintenance problem is tremendous. 

RI Sure Some homes have been built right up on the edge of 

SOREL: Ihe the creek. - We are aware of some of these problems, but we 

kely that | 
| are also aware of the fact that it is going to cost several 

~ause the | 

s been, orf 

millions of dollars to correct this problem. - It is in our 
] 

master drainage program and it will be taken.care of, but, 

  as I say again, with the resources that we had available, 

whoever te 

| 

=e low | 
gs 

| 

I think we have done a fantastic job with our drainage program. 

tl ; sparent.y Q Mr. Mims, earlier in the trial I introduced, as Exhibit 

  
  

264         
 



  

    

  

        
  

      
    

ERERARIR 8 ENE er SE FL RR TS RA 0 SE A BE 1 a 3 | 

80, a news release that you had issued on March 16, 1970. : lar a 

Would you hand him a copy of that, please? 1 me ba 

I believe his Honor inquired as to whether this fifty 

million one hundred and forty-one thousand three hundred and 4 A 

seventy-four dollars that is stated on the second page to have provi 

been the total expenditures between October, 1965 and March | the a 

16, 1970, was all spent in an effort to do something about | in 19 

the problems in Trinity Gardens? | these 

A This is correct. | time, 

Q And is it fair to say, too, that during that period THE C 

of time Trinity Gardens had produced only twenty-seven 

thousand dollars in property taxes for the City? ; provi 

A I had our revenue people develope these figures and 5 to re 

I am sure they can be substantiated. 2 A 

THE COURT: 3 every 

Mr. Arendall, are you suggesting that when an area § MR. A 

of the city doesn't produce certain revenue, they are not E 

entitled to certain services? ; 4 refer 

MR. ARENDALL: J a not 

No, sir. I am not. What I wanted to do was to ask | 4 feder 

him this next. 1 porti 

Mr. Mims, does not this demonstrate that the policy | 

of the City of Mobile, with reference to the expenditure of E had u 

public funds has been dictated by a desire to help a particu- 1 Water 
- | e Sel R 

| L389. |        



  

      
  

  

        

> ape : EEARRAT IE Ae Sa | 883 

1970. lar area that needs them as distinguished from just giving 

me back fifty dollars a year in services if I pay the City 

this fifty dollars in taxes? 

adred and A Well, I can say emphatically that we have tried to 

age to have provided these services in the Trinity Gardens area, because 

1d March | the area became taxable right after I was elected to office 

> about | in 1965 and I began, as public works commissioner, to provide 

| i these services in the Trinity Gardens area. Prior to that 

i time, they didn't have any service at all. 

: period 3 THE COURT: 
& 

ren | I take it that your contention that the City 

4 provides services according to needs rather than according 

ires and 4 to revenue? | | 

a A Yes, sir. If I might add we can't always do everything 

1 everybody wants done in any given community. 

n area 4 MR. ARENDALL: 

'e not 1 Now, I notice on the second page here, there is a 

4 reference to sewer installation and water installation and 

| 1 a note that two hundred and fifty-eight thousand dollars of 

to ask | | federal funds had been secured and a further note that a 

| f portion will be returned over a ten year period in assessments. 

policy | 4 Taking, first, the item of sewer installations, I 

ture of | : had understood from your prior testimony that the Board of 

particus 1 Water and Sewer comalssioners were in charge of the sanitary 

| ] 366. 

 



    

  

  

sewer development for the city in this area. 

Would you explain how it came about that the City 

itself was in the picture here? 

A Well, the water and sewer board was established, to 

begin with, in order that that entity might sell bonds and 

provide these services for the people. Over a period of 

years the board of water and sewer commissioners apparently 

reached their debt limit and they could not sell any more 

bonds. Then the citizens of Mobile, these in particular, 

Trinity Gardens, as well as thousands of others, came to the 

board of City Commissioners, at that time, and said, look, 

we want these services. We are in the city and we want these 

services. These people in Trinity Gardens came into the City 

and began to pay taxes in '65 and said we want these services 

and we go to the water and sewer board and say, look, you are 

88 

suppose to provide these services and they say we can't provide   as far as debt 
| 

the service because we are at our limits, 

is concerned. 

The City Commission turned around then and sold bonds 
| 

and made these improvements and assessed part of the cost | 

against the property owners and this is the only way these 

improvements could have been put in, at that time. I think 

it was a case of a city government responding to the needs 

  of the people. 

A 

re ——————————— 

            367     

  

  

  

   



  88s | i av 885 

Q That would be true of the momey as indicated here 

  

  

  

    
    

, City for water installation, I take it? 

i A Yes. They were both installed at the same time. 

shed, to Q Now, you have mentioned briefly, among your duties 

ds and as public works commissioner, is that of paving and you have 

yd of spoken about that generally. Let me ask you a few general 

arently questions. 

ry more A Where a subdivider desires to take a rather large | 

lar, : piece of property and turn it into a lot sales venture, who | 

we to the : puts in the streets? 

look, : A The developer. : 

;ant these 1 Q Does' he have to do that in accordance with City 

y the City a specifications as to the nature of the street and the 

s sarvice) E underground drainage and things of that sort? 

¢, you are i A Yes, he does, and then he turns them over to the 

n't provide 4 City when he has completed the project. 

debt 4 Q Once they are inspected and approved by the City, they 

4 then become City streets, but it is the developer who puts 

sold a 1 them in; is that correct? 

. CORL | i A This is correct. : 
4 

v these | 4 Q Would it be fair to say that since the basic growth 

1 think E of the city has largely been to the western section of the 

e needs City that many of the streets in that area have been paved 

i by private individuals as distinguished by the City? 

iE 868       
   



   
   
     
   

   

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A Well, this is absolutely correct. 

Q Then in those areas, however, where there have been 

no real estate developments in recent years the City, itself 

has been the one to do the paving; is that right? 

    

A On all unimproved streets where there were residences 

   the City has gone in on an assessment basis and improved the 

streets and, as I said a moment ago, we have just about 

taken care of every one with the exception of some in Trinity 

   Gardens. 

    

Q Now, there was a lady here earlier in the case who 

-- no, a gentleman, Mr. Pettaway, who was talking about 

   Lincoln Street. 

I understood him to say that the people out there had 

   always been willing to pay for an assessment for street 

improvements and then I introduced Exhibit 81 on that subject. 

Do you recall the Lincoln Street situation? 

   

A I recall Lincoln Street quite well, because I set 

   on a Reverand Mr. Smith's porch in 1965 and discussed the 

    

  problem with him. I discussed it a number of times after 

   that date with him. 

   It was not until about a year ago -- I don't recall 

   the dates, that we first learned that these people were 

willing to pay an assessment. Prior to that time they wanted 
| 

the City to put the streets in because they had problems and, 
               

369 2 

    

      
 



ave been 

'y, itself] 

residencer 

yroved the 

bout 

in Trinity 

ase who 

bout 

- there had 

“reet 

1at subject. 

> 1 set 

sed the 

3s after   
't recall | 

were | 

they wanted 
| 

oblems and, 
i S— 

the Lincoln Street project was not a high priority item, 

  

  

to the best of my recollection, they never indicated that 

they wanted to pay or would be willing to pay any portion 

of it. My position was that it was a hard surface paved 

street at the time and we had much greater needs in other 

areas and our responsibility is an awesome responsibility, 

when you try to establish priorities, and, in my opinion,   
but when the people decided that they wanted to have a part 

in it and pay the assessment, then the City Commission moved! 

ahead with the improvement program and it is under gg 

tion right now. : | 

THE COURT: 

What is the distinction about when the City pays 

for it? I assume when you say certain high priority areas 

where you do paved work without assessment, what makes the 

| 
| 

| 
determination where you pave without assessment and where | 

: 

you don't? | 

A We don't assess, your Honor, on major streets. Take 

Airport Boulevard, for instance, that is a major street. 

Normally we try to get some federal or state and county 

participation in a project such as this. On all residential 

streets that we improve, whether it be low cost or regular 

curb and gutters and underground drainage, we do it on an 

assessment basis. 
        370   
 



  

        

  
    

  

THE COURT: 

Are all the streets in the area -- is Lincoln Street 

a residential section? 

A Yes, sir. And as I said, it was not until they agreed 

to the assessment program -- let me explain the assessment 

program. We could go out and say we are going to assess part   
‘of this project to the property owners. We assess one-sixth   
of the cost of the project to the property owner. So, it 

still costs, out of the treasury of the City of Mobile, many 

thousands of dollars on most any kind of project, because one- 

sixth on each side of the street would be actually one-third. 

If a project costs ninety thousand dollars, sixty 

‘thousand comes right out of the treasury where thirty thousand 

comes out on either side of the street. 

0 What is your policy with reference to the construction   of sidewalks? A number of black witnesses have complained 
I 
because they don't have sidewalks.   
a Well, it has been our policy to install sidewalks 

in any area where the people petition the City Commission for 

sidewalks, because we assess the cost of that improvement 

against the property. Our policy on new subdivisions is that 

t hey install the sidewalks. So, if a new subdivision goes in, 

before we accept the subdivision, the developer places the 

sidewalks on the property. 

  

        
GF 

  

over { 

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and tk} 

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MR. AR 

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many h- 

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keep on 

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isment 

ess part 

ie-sixth 

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ixty 

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ained 

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sion for | 

-ment 

is that 

: goes in, 

-s the 

over the two-thirds or three-fourths of the people in the 

community to please the one-fourth or one-third. 

Our normal way of handling it is for a community, 

the number of people -- ever how mamy to request the sidewalks 

and then we would try to initiate the program and have the 

hearing and move on with it. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

That probably is clear, but you would not’, for 

example, assess for repaving Government Street, would you? 

basis. That is 3 maintenance problem. 

We spend about two hundred and fifty to three hundred 

thousand dollars a year on resurfacing. Right now we hz e 

many hundreds of miles of streets that need to be resurfaced 

and in the not too distant future I will be coming to the 

Commissioners on my knees with hat in hand, so to speak, to 

keep our streets in good repair. 

That comes right out of the general fund of the City 

land as a maintenance expenditure. We don't assess for 

resurfacing. | 

Q Do you believe, Mr. Mims, that under Sore administra- 

tion that the black communities have been treated fairly with 

reference to drainage, paving, sidewalks and -- well, those 

      
  

    3V2~ | 

  
A No resurfacing programs are not done on an assessment | 

  
matters? | 

893 

———— ———————————



     

  

  

  

    
I don't think I have ever -- in     A I most certainly do. 

      

  

fact, I will be emphatic and say I have never denied any 

   

  

citizen a service that he expects with his tax money because o 

   

  

a certain color or social standing. 

    Q Now, there has been some testimony here about weeds       and underbrush on large tracts, specifically about some    

    
          

What is the policy of the City with reference to large     | 
tracts? 

       A We have a state law and I am not familiar with the 
| 

    number and what not, but I know it is a state law that deals       ‘with noxious weeds. ' This law allows us to post a lot and SY | 

! 

lit if the property owner does not cut it and assess it against 

  

           | 

his property. Our policy on large tracts of land, if we get 

I 
la complaint from Mrs. Jones, who lives next door to this 
i 

large tract of land, our policy is to go out and post a i 

       
       

[fifry foot strip around this ten acre tract or whatever it 
1 
i 

might be, and give the property owner who lives next door to | 

  

     
i 
i 

    

ithis tract at least a clearing between them and the underbrush 

    land the wooded area, so to speak. 
i 
| 

Now, normally this is sufficient and most people are | 
     

  

appreciative of the fact that they can get this strip cut next 

      to their property. 
   
  

    
  

  

your ca 

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things 

the Uni 

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from an 

THE COU 

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questior 

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901.   

A Well, not officially. 

A No, but on occasion Dr. Tunstill has been present 

with these other people to give me advisement. 

THE COURT: 

If I understand you correctly, you haven't formalized 

your campaign into committees?   
We had people doing a lot of | 

When I ran for 

the United States Senate, Dr. Tunstill was a part of it and | 

things in every campaign I have ever been in. 

he was right there, but in these City races we welcome help 

from anyone of any color or any standing. 

THE COURT: 

Go ahead. 

  MR. BLACKSHER: 

I didn't really understand your answer to the Judge's 

question, but I will move on to the next one. | 
| 

| 
Did you regularly, in all of your campaigns, have a 

campaign headquarters that was staffed by people during Faatefer 

hours you kept? | 

A Yes, we have. 

Q Tell me the names of the black people who have 

staffed your campaign headquarters? 

A We did not have black people in the campaign head- 

quarters. My brother is my clitpatn chairman and he is very 

particular about who sees our list of supporters and people 
            : 373



  
    

  

NR SE 902 

who are helping us. He runs the campaign and I try to run 

the office after I get elected. 

  
Q Jeff Mims is your brother? 

A This is correct. 

Q And he is chairman of the County Democratic Executive 

Committee? 

| A This is correct. 

Q Now, about all of these boards and committees, 

Mr. Mims, would the Clerk please show the witness Plaintiff's | 

Exhibit number 64. 

How many of these -- can you point out the boards 

and committees on this list which, I presume, is comprehensive, 

to your knowledge, right, and contains all the boards and 

committees that the city has any appointing power to? 

A So far as I know, yes.     
i Q How many of them, to your knowledge, are set up under | 

State law as opposed to being established by city ordinance? 

1 

A I could not answer that. 

| 
i 

| 
| 

| 

'Q What about the board of water and sewer commissioners? 
| 

That is established under State law, isn't it? 
| 

n It is my understanding that it is. 

Q Do you have any idea of how many of these or which of 

these boards and committees are subject to the control of the   City Commission to the extent that the City Commission can 

    . 4375 |   

  

  

  

  

  
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board, 

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THE COURT: 

change the ground rules about what it is suppose to do, who 

it's members are and so forth? 

A No, I don't. As far as I know, the water and sewer 

board, for instance, is charged with the responsibility for 

providing sanitary sewers, water service for the City of 

Mobile and I don't have anyone who would want to change that.   
According to my notes only two were established by | 

State law, the boards, the South Alabama Regional Planning | 

Commission, I assume, was established by either the State or 

some federal regulation, and that is the only ones that I 

have that indicate, besides the City establishing them -- 

well, is that true, the board of adjustment, the board of 

water and sewer commissioners, and the South Alabama Regional   
Planning Commission? 

A Well, I think you would find the Housing Board would 

be -- has to be a State act that would allow a housing 

authority. 

THE COURT: 

Just one minute. What number is that? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

If I may, we have not researched this and I am really 

not sure. I believe all of these boards that will relate 

to licensing people are probably under some state law which 

  

36      



  

    

      
    

       
  

  
  

  

says that the various municipalities shall do such and such a numbe 

in order to issue licenses for contractors and electricians well an 

and plumbers and so on. We have not researched and I cannot eomplal 

make Hint ststeneht. i But Mr. 

THE COURT: 
been re 

All right. Q 

; MR. BLACKSHER: A 

Ii | Well, concerning the board of water and sever Q 

| | conmissioners, Mr. Mims, have you made any appointments to thdt a membe 

board personally? A 

A Yes, I have. Q 

Q How many? A 

A Well, I regret to say that I think I have one was bla 

appointment in all the years. It has worked around where I THE COU 

have one man on there, Mr. Dennis Moore. I have been in 

office eleven years and Mr. Moore is my one and only for tha 

appointment. A 

There was some mix-up, if I might add, because of ; known b: 

some people dying and some particular person appointed them i time. 

and they felt that they should replace that person or fill that b MR. ARE] 

vacancy. Many of these people I have known and certainly Revd { 

concurred in their appointment. 1 prepares 

The late Bishop Phillips was a very close friend of ¢ THE COUS 

mine and served ably on the water and sewer commission for 

AE ar d              



  

  

    
  

  
  
  

such : a number of years and some of the other people I know quite 

vians : well and have utmost confidence in them. So, I am not 

ANOLE v complaining because I can't, you know, appoint but one person, 

. { But M2. Moore I appointed a number of years ago and he has 

{ been reappointed at least once since then or maybe twice. 

: Q Mr. Moore is white, isn't he? 

A Yes, he is. 

Q I thought we established that Milton Jones is currently 

3 to that 2 nenber? . 

A Yes. He is and Mr. Jones is black. | 

Q ~ And you were saying that Bishop Phillips was also? 

A He was on there prior to Mr. Jones. Bishop Phillips 

was black. | 

te 1 THE COURT: | 

n This shows no prior black members. Can you account 

for that? ; | 

A I did not prepare this. Reverand Bishop Phillips | 

of known by everybody around Mobile, was on there for a long | 

them i gige. 

111 that : MR. ARENDALL: : 

11y have { Judge, we had this prepared by Irene -- no, Mr. Menefée 

3 prepared this. We gave some basic information to Mr. Menefee 

od of : THE COURT: 

for Counsel for Plaintiff? 

Les Fs         
 



  

  

    

      
      

  
  

MR. ARENDALL: 

THE COURT: 

| THE COURT: 

A 

| . 

    

          

Yes. Mr. Menefee prepared this and I will be frank 

to say that I didn't check it. 

All right. I am going to put one in parenthesis by 

that, prior black members. 

Do you know whether or not you gave the information 

that Mr. Phillips previously served on that board? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

| Bishop Phillips and Mr. Menefee informs me that 

Mrs. Quinn identified the persons on this list who were 

black and failed to jdentify Bishop Phillips. 

All right. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

So there are actually two out of the twelve people 

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that have been on that board that have been black? 

I don't have that information before me. 

I believe you testified, Mr. Mims, that you had some 

A 

Q 

difficulty finding citizens to serve on these various boards. 

Have you had difficulty finding people to serve on 

these boards? 

On the water and sewer board? 

Yes, sir. 
  

  

379 

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907 
  

  

L A Well, as I indicated a moment ago, I have only made 

frank : one appointment that I could point to and that is Mr. Moore. 
4 

Q Did you have any difficulty locating someone?   
A No. I did not, because I appointed Mr. Moore and I 

is by i have not had an opportunity to appoint anyone else since. 

Q You have given us an example of how Mr. Gary Cooper 

nation % walked into your office one day and said that he wanted to 

participate and I believe you said that you had never seen 

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him before and that provided you an opportunity to appoint   
at him to some board. 

re A To the audiotorium board. 

Q Isn't that a general problem you have in finding 

qualified black persons to serve on these boards is that 

you just don't know that many black persons personally, like 

you do the white people that live in your immediate   yeople community?   A I know a lot of black people, personally. I speak 

in black churches. I go to black meetings. I know a lot 

of black people. 

You have to have people that express interest. My   
  

4 door is open to people. I have a meet the mayor day every 

Wednesday and I have people coming and going, blacks and 

whites and unless people express an interest in serving their E 

He aA : community on a specific board or in a specific area then it is 

| ; ~ 380 
        
 



  

  

not my policy to go out and pick people, you know, and put 

them on a board unless I know they want to serve and unless 

I know they have some interest in a particular area. 

Q Are you saying that you have never appointed anyone 

to a board at your own initiative or at your own invitation, 

but have only responded to requests that were made in the 

first instance by other people? 

A I have requested certain black leaders to provide 

me black lists of black people that would be willing to 

serve on boards. I know a lot of black people, but to have 

them say I want to serve or I will be willing to give so 

many hours a month, a very few of them have done this. I am 

going to be frank with you about that. 

Q Who are the hlack leaders you requested to provide 

a list? 

A Various people, ministers and various leaders in the 

community. 

Q Name one. 

A Well, the Bishop that I just mentioned awhile ago 

has provided some names over the years. 

Q Bishop Phillips? 

A Yes. 

Q Who else? 

A Reverand Tunstill;, and Mr. LeFlore use to provide 

- 908 

      
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909 

d put | some names. 

unless 3 Q Mr. LeFlore? 

| A And others. 

anyone : Q And others? Others that you can't recall, now? 

tation, : A | No. I can recall. I just mentioned Dr. Carroll. 

the Sa fact, of the business, I helped to get Dr. Carroll appointed 

; to a state position. 

vide r Have all of these people provided you with a list that 

to [vou requested? | 

© have A They would give me a name now and then. I doubt eis 

Bo | seriously if aSbody has given me a list of names. I rely on] 

Len black people I know to tell me if a certain person wants to | 

serve or will serve or is qualified to serve. I don't think 

ovide because a person is black or white makes him necessarily | 

! qualified to serve in a given area. | 

in the 4 Q You have requested, you say, a list of names, but 

: whenever you have had a chance to want to approach the black 

y community you have gone to one of these black leaders that 

ago ‘ ) | you knew and ask them for a name, is that what you are saying? 

: A Well, yes. 

“ Q So, what kind of occasions would prompt you to say 

A ( well it is time for me to consider a black person for this 

| board and I will see one of my friends, who is a black leader, 

vide oe ; |land ask him for a name. 

._ 383.% 
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. various boards and committees and groups. They send in these 

I 
i 

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, opening coming up and it is important to me to make the 

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' appointment, then I will look over the list of people that 

i that you have confidence in? 

LA 1 have friends that I have confidence in and I have 

friends that I don't consult for advice and then I have a lot 

| of acquaintances and I am sure that every individual, whether! 

"he is in politics or not, has close associates, friends and 

T
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A What kind of an occasion? 

Q What time would you do that? Everytime you had an 

appointment would you request the name of qualified blacks 

that you ‘ould ‘consider along with other people or just 

certain occasions when this would come up? 

A ~ Well, on some of these boards, as it has already 

been indicated, you have to have engineers and architects and 
> 

things like this and you get these recommendations from these 

recommendations. 

On others, like the audiotorium board, if there is an 

1 have confidence in and I might call. 

Q You have a list that you keep at your desk of people 

acquaintances. So, if I were looking for a person to put on 

a board this afternoon I would call somebody that knew people 

Q Out in which community? 

  
9 383: 

out in that community, both black and white. |     
  

  
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910 J%. 911 

A In whatever community I was trying to find or whatever 

d an 3 area I was trying to find an appointment in. 

acks i Q Well, I guess that is what we are trying to get at 

It 3 is to figure out how you zero in on 2 community when you 

find out there is a need for an appointment? 

dy A Well, if one of my appointments on the audiotorium 

cts and 3 board were to resign this afternoon and .it was determined 

ym these : that this person was my appointment and -- incidentally, 

In these] : I appointed the first black to that board and appointed the 

: first woman and the first woman black I appointed to that 

re is an E board and so if that opening were to come about this 

he afternoon, then I would start researching within my own 

that PF mind who I could fill that vacancy with and it might be tnac 

% I would call a white person or it might be that I call a 

people EF black person and ask for a recommendation, someone that 

3 was qualified to serve and someone in whom I had great 

I have i confidence. 

ve a Joe ¥ I have not made it a great practice calling up these 

whether | . people after they got appointed to a board and pull strings 

ds and x and treat them as a puppet. That is not ny policy. I 

) put on | 5 appoint people I have confidence in and on occasions some 

w people } of them have disappointed me. 

| % Q You said that there are a number of committees where 

aan you must select persons nominated by boards of architects or 

; 384 

|   
 



  
  

  

    
  

  

engineers and what else did you mention? 

A Well, some of these you have to have someone familiar 

with air conditioning, for instance, and air conditioning 

professional groups. I don't even remember what they are   call, but they make these recommendations. I can't help it, 

because they don't have a black air conditioning engineer that   they recommend to us. 

o Let's get something straight. You are not saying that 

‘there are no qualified black engineers or air conditioning 

H 

people or whatever; you are not saying that? 

A I am saying that I have tried to find a black civil 

engineer for eleven years and I don't have one yet on my staff 

  h There are no black civil engineers in Mobile? 

A I have not been able to locate them. 
i 

n Okay. Where do you look when you are looking for a 

black civil engineer? 

A I have been told a number of engineers, including 

I have talked to 

people in other parts of the country who are in the public 

rhe engineering school at South Alabama. 

works field and I have talked to the commissioner of public 

works in Atlanta, who is a black man, and who is a civil 

engineer and he confesses he can't find black civil engineers 

and I have let the personnel board know that I would like to 

have a black engineer on my staff. 

| 912 

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We go into every area of the City and deal with all of 

the people and I would like to have a black representative on 

my staff, but I have not been able to locate a black civil   
ngineer. 

Does that hold true also for architects? 

p The only black architect I know is Mr. Jones, who is 

bn the water and sewer board. 
| 

D Do you know of any black architects employed with the 
  

Corp of Engineers? 

h I think that is the problem, the federal government 

takes them all. 

Just because he was employed at the Corp of Engineers 

oard? 

No. You miss the point. 

| 

R 

pe stop you from appointing him to the water and sewer : 

| 
p 
nN I am sorry, give it to me again. 

I am talking about as a staff person, now. I have 

T
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Hooked FOr @8 vies nne 

THE COURT: 

You mean a full time employee? " 

A Yes, your Honor. I have looked for a black civil 

engineer to put on the staff full time with the City of Mobile 

hnd I have not been able to locate one. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 
    
  

P
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We were talking about boards and committees. 

A Well, if I can't find one to hire, I certainly don't 

know if I could find one to appoint to a board. 

0 Well, you find an architect that you couldn't hire 

that you probably could have appoint to a board. 

A He is the only black architect that I know and I am 

not trying to be smart. He is serving on our water and sewer   
‘board and he works for the Corp of Engineers and I imagine 

makes more money than he could working for us. 

Q If I told you there were two other black architects 

working for the Corp of Engineers alone, wouid that surprise 

you? 

A No. It wouldn't surprise me. I just don't know these 

gentlemen. 

Q This Mobile Transit Authority you said was recently   
established and that is not on the list, is it? 

A No. I don't think so, because it is fairly new. 

Q How many members are on the authority and how many of 

than are black? 

A Well, I have two appointments and I think the other 

two commissioners have two appointments and one of mine is 

white and one of them is black. 

Q I am sorry, run that by me again. 

THE COURT: 
      = 

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two. 

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MR. BLACK. 

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percentage 

that occur 

A Si 

one white 

have done. 

RQ I 

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City Commi 

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A I 

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What is the total number? 

A Six, your Honor. Each commissioner has appointed 

two. 

{|THE COURT: 3 

How many total blacks? 

A One. 

THE COURT: 

That was your appointment? 

A Yes. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Who was that black person you appointed, Mr. Mims? 

A Marshall Robinson. 

percentage of the patrons of the transit system. I mean, did 

that occur to the commissioners when they were appointing? 

A Sir, I can only speak to myself. I put one black and 

one white out of the two. I don't know what else I could 

have done. 

Q I think we have talked about this the last time we 

popesred in the Court together. One of the facets of the 

City Commission is that you are only responsible for you and 

not responsible for the others? 

A I am responsible to the people of Mobile and I think 

I have met those responsibilities quite well. 
        

95. 

  
  

| 0 And yet the black citizens of Mobile are the overwhelming 

  

  

388.        



  

    

  

      

i 
1 + 

0 By the way, concerning the transit authority, is it ; light at the 

a fact that there are just aren't any bus routes that go north : A I tl} 

and south between the north end of town and the south end of I think Mr. 

town, you know, through Government Street? Don't they all have | 0 Mr. 

ito go down to the foot of Royal Street and transfer there and A No. 

go all the way back out again in one direction or the other? 0 Oka: 

A | Well, the City of Mobile is so laid out to the core, looks like 

that the central core is by the river and, over the years, the sixteen tot. 

routes have all been designed to come into the central core. ins not any mor: 

Now, studies have been made by the new operators of Li board? 

the system and we have a professional operator who is helping i Is 

the authority. They have some new route configurations kill; or s- 

asimed. As far as them going right straight down from I ds 

Prichard to Naveco, I doubt very seriously if that will ever be he board o 

  

  

  

In this business I have found we have more expert traffic ole, becau 

engineers and more expert civil engineers and more experts than “ awful lo 

you can shake a stick at and everybody says why don't we have rhambers an 

a bus to run from Trinity Gardens to Navco interchange. That # D Wha 

oesn’s mean that people are going to ride just because eR Wel 

somebody thinks that ought to be. This is like testimony Ei somebody th 

piven here earlier today that a traffic light ought to be a: to all of t 

  

At their corner, but it doesn’t mean it is necessarily justi- What goes o   
fied. | ) Are- 

es 
R Who was that that said everybody wanted a traffic oy ynwilling t= 

| © 389 
  

          
   



  

  

    

    
      

a S18. 5 | 917 

s it light at their corner? 

> north ; A I think it was brought out earlier in the testimony, 

=d of I think Mr. Doyle said so. 

mll have | Q Mr. Doyle wanted it? 

—e and A No. He didn't say he wanted one. 

—her? $iRA | ¢ Okay. We have this board of adjustment, number one, 

=ore, looks like it is -- we have one black out of a history of 

—s, the sixteen total members. Do you know any reason why there were 

—ore. si not any more blacks than that appointed to this particular | 

3 of a board? | 

=21lping k Is it a question of availability of some particular 

i skill; or something of that sort? 

mn 5 A I do not know the answer to that question. I do know 

2ver be} the board of adjustments membership on that is not an easy 

ic role, because these people, whether black or white, come under 

—=ts than = Lh awful lot of pressure when you have a hundred people in the 

= have He rhambers and fifty-four something and fifty against it. 

That : N What has that got to do with my question? 

A Well, it has a lot to do with the question. Getting 

ny ri | omebody that wants to take that pressure and strain ahd listen 

be rE o all of that static and any member of the press can tell you 

Justi- be hat goes on in a board of adjustment meeting. 

| Are you inferring that there have been black people 
| 

ic i pnwilling to take that pressure? 

SHE RL TL Jan   i 
§ 
f 
i 
| : 

 



  

  

A No. I didn't infer black or white. A lot of people 

wouldn't take that pressure. 

0 You are not saying that there are not qualified black 

citizens in Mobile who were able to serve on the board of 

  adjustments? A No. We have one on there. 

0 Te he the only qualified person? 

A I did not say that. I have not implied that there wer 

not qualified blacks. 

0 What about this air conditioning board? This is the 

board that screens applicants for licenses for people who want 

to do air conditioning work?   
p - As I understand it, yes. 

Q As a matter of fact, there is a lot of air conditioninj 

mechanic type courses in the local trade schools, isn't there?   
HA So far as I know. 
Jt 

9) Southwest Technical State, Carver State, I think both 

have courses, don't they? | 

A I am not familiar with that. 

R You are not saying that there are no black persons in 

this community who are qualified to serve on that board, are 

you? 

In No. But we have not received recommendations from 

these various agencies that make the recommendations.   
Ww
W 

        39% 
| -   

  

  

    

Q 1 

A W 

know whet 

Mr. Smith 

Q A 

serves on 

A T 

and we ap 

Q Y 

is that c 

A I 

ordinance 

making th 

MR. BLACK 

I 

marked, b 

City indi 

by a city 

MR. AREND. 

W! 

research 

MR. BLACK: 

In 

it shall | 

     



  
  

  

  

  

  

  

El 919 
——l-318.. # 

ig Q The air conditioning contractors? 
ople 4 

i A When those recommendations come up to us, we don't 

bl Yk #. ||know whether they are black or white. They recommend Mr. Jones, 
ac $e. 

£ "4 Mr. Smith or whoever. 

‘4 Q And it is these private agencies that control on who 

8 serves on the board? 

f A They make their recommendations to the city commission 

4 and we appoint them. | 
re were & 

§ Q You are powerless not to appoint their recommendations; 

= is that correct? 
the gt : 

A I think these requirements are specified in the 
0 want 3 

A ordinance of the state's statute and these people are rightfully 

: making these recommendations to us. : 

§ [MR. BLACKSHER: | 
tioning 

I believe, your Honor, we could have this document 
there? 3 | 

& marked, but the information was turned over to us from the 
3 | 

both City indicates that the air conditioning board is established 

by a city ordinance. Do you want to stipulate to that? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

1s in Whatever it shows, Jim. I have really done no 

research on these things. 
are 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

In fact, the air conditioning board ordinance says 
om 

4 it shall be composed of five members appointed by the City 

pe GUUSESD | _ 92           
 



  

  

  

  
  

      

SA By 1 Ls 

any blacE 
Commission. It shall consist of the following members; one 

A = 
air conditioning refrigeration mechanic, one business principal 

: begin wit 
of a registered air conditioning and heating firm; one 

; because = 

principal of a registered air conditioning and heating firm 
bicentenr 

that is primarily engaged in installing heating and air 
would say 

conditioning systems and residences and one independent 
’ know, inv 

practicing mechanical engineer, a registered engineer in the 
! on the bi 

State of Alabama, and one representative of the public. 
adding ar 

.So, it appears that no one makes recommendations to : 

i |Iforty-six 
that board. Does that come as a surprise to you? 3 

City Hall 
A No, it doesn't come as a surprise. We have forty-six 

i bout twe 
different boards and commissions here and I think it would be 

nd grew 
impossible for me to be familiar with every ordinance and 

: give you. 
state statute. I can say emphatically that no black person 

D T 
has ever come to me and said, "Mr. Mims, we would like some 

wanted bl 
representation on the air conditioning advisory board." I have 

joining t 
had no complaints in the eleven years that I have been in 

A W 

office. | 
: ps much 1 

Q Have white persons come to you and requested 

in our In 
representation on the air conditioning board? 

thirty-fi 
A No. 

had seven 
Q Now, this Mobile Bicentennial committee. Is there any) 

citizens 
reason why there are three out of forty-six members that are 

nd enjoy 
black? Are there any qualifications that you felt ruled out 

_. 393        



  

  
  

  

     
  

  

r 921 
—e 1.920 

any black citizens in substantial numbers to that board? 
; one 

A We appointed some blacks to this, ever how many to 
principal 

begin with, and then this committee kind of grew on us, 

because a number of people expressed interest in the 
firm 

bicentennial celebration and, as a civic club, well, they 
r 

would say you ought to put Mr. Jones on here. He is, you 
E 

know, involved with the ROTC, or whatever, and he ought to be | 
In the 

on the bicentennial committee and the City Commission kept | 

adding and adding and we wound up with whatever it says here, | 
18 to | 

|fforty-six members, but go back and research the records at | 

City Hall and you will find out that we started off with 
ty-six : 

bout twelve members, three of which were black, and it grew 
puld be 

nd grew and grew and that is the only explanation I can : 
ind | 

: { 
give you. 

rson 

| 
D The explanation, as I understand it, being.they just | 

some . 
L wanted black groups like white groups expressed interest in 

I hav 

joining the committee, is that what you are saying? 
in 

A Well, yes, and also the blacks have not expressed 

as much interest, as I would like to have seen them express, 

In our Independence Day celebration. Every year out of 

thirty-five thousand at Ladd Stadium I doubt seriously if we 

had seven hundred blacks and it was a free program for all the 
ere any | 

citizens of Mobile and we have encouraged everyone to come 
t are 

pnd enjoy this program. 
d out a 

To __J94         
 



    
  

  

    

  

Q | By the way, I attended the program and you say there 

were seven hundred black people in the audience? 

A This would be my estimation. 

Q I guess you were counting the people sitting in the 

end zone stands, mostly? 

A No. I tried to look over it as I made a circle around 

the field and on the stage and I just did not see many black 

people present at that bicentennial or that Independence Day 

celebration. 

Q In point of fact, I didn't see any black entertainers 

and I thought that was regretable, 

THE COURT: 

Well, you ask questions and don't get into an 

argument, 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Were there any black people, entertainers, besides 

the black people in the marching band? 

A No. 

Q We have the item seven, which is the center city 

development authority which is, as my notes say, is suppose 

to rejuvenate or help rejuvenate the inner city out to the 

Loop; is that correct? 

THE COURT: 

Let's don't get into another subject here. We will 

A 

that pa: 

they us 

or spec: 

Q. 

A 

in the ( 

Q 

controll 

A 

Q 

have on 

A 

executivy 

but we v 

So, that 

three co 

Q 

opposed 

A 

Q 

A : 

0 \ 

A 1 
  

                  335  



  

  

  
    

  

: 926 
Reta 1. 4 1 

habe A Its basis of funding is from the member governments 

that participate and contribute on a per capita basis and 

they use that funding to match certain federal and/or state 

the or special agency programs. 

Q What agencies in Mobile County participate? 

around A I am not sure, but I think all of the municipalities 

sank in the County government are members. 

» Day Q Is the South Alabama Regional Planning Commission | 

controlled by the Mobile City Commission? 

Ror s A No, sir. 

Q To what degree does the Mobile City Commission input 

have on any influence on its operation? 

A Only as voting members. We are members of the 

executive committee and various aspects of the organization, 

but we vote -- their voting is on a per capita formula basis. 

a5 So, that whatever our proportion of our population is to the 

i three county area, that is what our voting is. 

4 Q Now, Mr. Greenough, in your 1973 election, you were 

opposed by a Mr. Bailey, you were not? | 

Bsa A Yes, sir. . 

he Q Were there any other candidates in that election? 

A Yes. There were two others. 

0 Who were they? 

411 A Mr. Bridges, Earl Bridges, and Mr. Ollie Lee Taylor. 

El 336 !           
 



  

  

> 

Q 

A 

Q 

A 

through 

Q 

A 

0 

percent 

A     i 

i 
! 

& 

i 
i 
it 

  
a | 
A 

Q 

Mr, Ollie Lee Taylor was black? 

Yes, sir. 

How did the first election come out? 

Mr. Bailey and I were in the runoff. 

Who was ahead? 

I think Mr. Bailey was. 

Did you make any efforts to get black support in the 

original election? 

I did from the outset of my campaign and all the way 

the runoff. 

Is it fair to say then thit you were not concerned 

about being tagged with the black vote? 

1 was looking for every vote I could get. 

Bailey actually got some forty-eight point one 

of the vote in the original election, did he not? 

Yes, sir. 

And you were the decided underdog at that stage? 

I think everybody had that opinion, yes. 

Did you go back to the black community and seek their 

active support in the runoff? 

Yes, sir. 1 did. 

Were you successful? 

I think the statistics would reveal that, yes. 

Do you believe that the black vote or the vote of blac ks 

IS Cnt 
      Jar     

    

    
   

  

in the b   
A : 

thold all 
1] 

| 
but I th: 

Ithink tha 
| 
i 
iprocess, 

iprobably 
{ 

IQ 
i 

'substant- 

than you 

sometimes 

in suppor 

Q C 

A 12 

many othe 

member of 

public s1= 

whom I has 

others. 

     



: Jat 
  

97 

in the black areas constituted the swing vote in that election? 

  a That is awfully hard to answer. I presume, if you 

thold all other votes in isolation, the answer would be yes, 
| 

I 
but I think this is a rather static way to look at it. I 

| think there is much more dynamics involved in the election 
f 

process, but actually I would have to say that generally, 

iprobably, yes. 
[In the ;   H 

1 In any event, you did, in the runoff, secure a 
i 

substantially larger percentage of votes in the black areas 
ne way 

a 

hr 

po 
HE 

than you did in the initial race, did you not? 

A To my recollection, yes. 

ried 
Q Did you have any assistance from leaders of the black 

community in connection with that campaign? 

A Fortunately, yes. | 

Ee Well, I should say the younger element that has 

ot? 4 sometimes been described as the young turks, tended to be : 

in support of my candidacy. 

e2 Q Could you identify some of these? 

A Well, there are some well known names and there are 

k their 
many others not well known, probably, but one who is now a 

EB member of the Alabama House, Gary Cooper, was a very strong 

| 4 public supporter of mine. Milton Joiner, a young man with 

whom I had gone to the University of South Alabama, and many 

others. 

. of blacks 

EE I | | 398 
          
 



  

  

  

and I think Mr. Mims has discussed the representation or 

lack of it of the City of Mobile on the supervisory 

commission. I have neglected or did neglect to ask him, but 

is there currently pending some effort to get that changed 

by legislation? 

A Yes, sir. Representative Gary Cooper has introduced 

a bill which would accomplish several things. I am not 

intimately familiar with it, except the essence of it is 

to allow for a broadened base of representation on the board, 

itself, as well as the board selection procedures and, thus, 

I guess the supervisory committee. 

I think that I would have to say, to my recollection, 

I did publicly and I think my two fellow commissioners 

both herald this as a positive step in the right direction, 

although I don't think any one of the three of us saw this 

as the ultimate cure and, again, I say I think representative 

Cooper realizes these sorts of things must be taken one step 

at a time. : 

0 Mr. Seales testified about the absence of a park in 

the Texas Street urban renewal area and that is under your 

jurisdiction. 

Can you tell us briefly about that? 

A Yes, sir. With the proper difference to our present 

company, the delay in that whole program is traceable to the 

      399         

    

L 

as follow 

THE COURT 

A 

cross of 

BY MR. BL 

0 Me 

Exhibit 6= 

P= 

A : 

Q A     city deve 

of author 

city out      



  

duced 

.8 

board, 

thus, 

resent 

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Ad | ">
 

  

MORNING SESSION 
    

0 o'clock, | July 20, 1976 9:0 
i A.M.   
THE COURT: 

I 
All right. Is Mr. Mims back? 

. MR. ARENDALL: 

Yes, sir. 

LAMBERT C. MIMS 
  

as follows: 

THE COURT: 

All right. Gentlemen, you may continue with the 

cross of Commissioner Mims. 

CONTINUED CROSS EXAMINATION 
  

BY MR. BLACKSHER: 

0 Mr. Mims, I direct your attention to Plaintiff's 

Exhibit 64, again. 

Do you have it in front of you? 

A Yes. : 

Q And in particular, to committee number 7, center 

of authority that is designed to help rejuvenate the inner 

city out to the Loop. 

the witness, resumed the stand and testified further, 

  
city development authority, and I understand that is some sort 

  

400.     | 
| 
| 
|



  

Would you be more explicit about what that authority 

does? 

A Well, this is a new authority that has been created 

in recent months and the idea is to preserve what would be 

called the older section of Mobile to make sure that it doesn|t 

deteriorate and that it is restored and refurbished and 

rejuventated, so to speak. 

0) You mean the older residential section or the older 

business section? 

A Both. 

Q "The city has only one appointment to that committee 

or to that authority? 

A No. This is in error as we brought out earlier. 

There are several persons on this authority, including the 

City Commissioners and if I am not mistaken the mayor, whoever 

serves as mayor at the time, is the chairman of this 

authority and it includes people who are connected with the 

downtown Mobile Unlimited program, as well as other business- 

men and property owners in the area. 

Are there any Q Businessmen and property owners. 

blacks on that authority and, if so, why not? 

A There are no blacks. 

Q | I asked why not? 

A I could not answer that. 

942 

        401     
OH 

e
B
 

Sa
 

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A 
Ja
de
) 

goi
n 

4 
5 

  

Q Tt 

correct? 

THE COURT: 

1f 

five was t 

| 
A I 

THE COURT: 

Ar 

A If 

mayor is c 

Yc 

are on the 

|THE COURT: 

Al 

“IMR. ARENDA 

If 

of that cc 

THE COURT - 

Ye 

MR. ARENDA 

Th 

dated Marc 

date of th 

James Van 
     



  

  

  

  
  

          

- | | 943 
| 862 

ority Q They are appointed by the City Commission; is that 

correct? 

mted THE COURT: | 

be If I recall correctly, your testimony yesterday was 

doesn it five was the number including yourselves on that? 

a I believe that's right, your Honor . 

THE COURT: 

lder Are there any other commissioners on that? 

A If I am not mistaken the commissioner serving as 

mayor is on there. 

tee Your Honor, I am not sure if the other two cottiishionges 

are on there or not. | 

THE COURT: 

the All right. 

whoevexy 4 MR. ARENDALL: 

If your Honor please, I have here a list of the members 

the of that committee. Would you like that? 

iness- THE COURT: 

Yes. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

k This is dated March 25th -- no. The ordinance was 

] dated March 25th, 1975. I am not sure as to the precise 

} date of these, but members are all three commissioners, Mr. 

James Van Adltneth. Jr., vice chairman of the committee; 

: 4021   
 



  

  

  

  

Mr. Ken L. Lott, who 18 an officer of the Merchants Bank; 

Mr. Don Henry, and I don't know what he is. Mr. H. J. 

Goubil, who is with Title Insurance Company. 

THE COURT: 

How do you spell that last name? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

G-o-u-b-i-1l. 

THE COURT: 

| Well, that gives seven, then, instead of five; three 

commissioners and four businessmen. 

MR, ARENDALL: 

Yes. I understand, Judge, from Mr. Greenough, he 

had something to do with the appointment of this and he can 

testify about ‘it perhaps and knows more about it than 

Mr. Mims does.   
| 
THE COURT: 

« All right, 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Mr. Mims, you are not suggesting, are you, that there 

are no black businessmen or property owners who are not 

interested in downtown liobile? 

A Absolutely not. 

Q By the way, is there a similar authority or committee 

that has, as its purpose, the rejuvenation of the black 
  

        403   

  
busin: 

A 

area 

excep! 

recom 

         



nk; 

three 

can 

there 

mittee 

   

  

  

      
      

     
    
          

  

      
       

       

    

     

       
     
    
         

  

bissiness districts of Mobile? 

A This particular authority is interested in the entire     ares from the water front to Government Street Loop, without 

+ exception to race or color. 

0 Yes, sir. I am speaking about the area from Broad 

Street out Davis Avenue, north of the Prichard City limits, 

which is where the black busines§ district is, traditionally. 

A There is no authority set up with the responsibility 

for that specific purpose, no.    
Q Can you direct your attention to number nine, board 

of electrical examiners which there have been nn blacks out | 

of a total of seven members, over the years, and I believe 

you said that various contractors, the IBEW, Alabama Power | 

Company nominate people for this board? | 

A It is my understanding that people who are posoeiated! 
) | 

with the electrical profession, for lack of a better word, ath 
| 

| 
the ones who are appointed to this electrical examining 

board. 

Q Once again, I want to make sure that the record is 

clear that the City is not bound by ordinance or otherwise 

  

to accept the recommendation of these private agencies, 

  

is it? 

  

A I would not think so. However, we abide by the    
recommendations of these various groups. 

  

    464        



  

      

  

Q Whoever they recommend, you as a formality, go ahead 

and approve? 

A Normally that is the procedure. 

Q You are not suggesting either, are you, that there 

are no black qualified electricians in the City of Mobile? 

A No, sir. We have a very fine electrician working 

for the City. In fact, he is head of the electrical 

inspection department. 

Q Item ten, citizens advisory group for the mass transit 

technical study, which shows that three of the eight members 

are black. 

Isn't it true, Mr. Mims, that the federal government, 

in an attempt to meet the Title six requirements, expressly 

required the City to appoint the divas blacks to that 

committee? 

A I do not have knolwedge of that requirement. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Would you mark this, Mr. O'Connor. ! 

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 103 received and 

marked, for identification.) 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

This 103 will be two documents. Actually, one is 

the list showing the members of this committee, citizens 

advisory group for mass transit technical study, and attached         405:     

  

  

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to it is a letter to Mayor Greenough from the South Alabama 

Regional Planning Commission dated January 20, 1975. 

THE COURT: 

  What is the number of that, please? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

103. Look at the list that I referred to at the 

bottom of the first page and you will see where the South 

Alabama Regional Planning Commission, pursuant to Title 6 

of the Civil Rights Act, is recommending that people be 

appointed. I believe there are two non-minority female, 

two minority female and the same for males, right? 

A This is correct. 

Q In point of fact there appear to be only three blacks] 

as one of the other eight committee members, a minority od 

other than a black to act for the four that the Federal 

government asked be appointed? 

A Are you asking if they are a minority? 

Q Yes, sir. I am asking if one of the remainding 

eight members other than the three blacks is a minority 

person? \ 

A I imagine you could call Mr. Briskman a minority.’ 

He is a jew. Mr. Zoghby is a Syrian. 

Q One of those would classify as a minority, in your 

opinion? 

947 

      - 406  



  

  

  

  

  

      

ERA 
| 94 heii 

A I would think so. 

Q Let's talk a little bit about the item eleven, the on the 

citizens advisory committee on the Donald Street freeway in locate 

which eleven of fifteen members are or were black. A 

Do I understand you to say it is defunct, now? \ lookec 

A I think perhaps it has already served its purpose i Some E 

to try to establish this corridor through this area of the | where 

city. 0 

0 . Why were there so many blacks on this particular did yc 

committee, Mr. Mims? A 

A = 1 my memory serves me correctly, one of the require- recall 

ments by the federal highway administration and others was my. apt 

that there be people from the area that is being affected 0 

and, of course, this road was going out Congress and Donald on thi 

Streets through Toulminville and my answer would be it went : A 

through this area where many of these people lived. Q 

Sh It is a predominantly black residential area? A 

A I would say so, yes. for th 

THE COURT: they b 

What number was that? meetin 

A Number eleven. Q 

THE COURT: commit 

Okay. A 

MR. BLACKSHER: come. 

~A07 gi            



  
f 

| 

| 

| 

  A According to Mr. Joiner, who was our liasion.......... 

1Q Milton Joiner? | 

A Earl Joiner, public works engineer, served as liasion 

for the City Commission. According to Mr. Joiner sometimes 

; some people who were interested or would be interested in 

949 
  

How did you locate the black people that served 

on that committee, Mr. Mims? How did the commissioners 

locate them? 

A If I recall the particular meeting, we sat down and   
looked at the area that was being affected and tried to get 

where the road went. 
| 

0 Yes, sir. I understand that. My question is, how 

did you get the people? | 

A Well, sir, I look at a list of people and try to 

recall who lives in what ward and what area of town and make 

my appointments. 

Q Did you have any difficulty in getting people to serve 

on this committee? 

they had very high attendance of people who attended the 

meetings. : 

Q No, sir. I asked about getting people to serve on the 

committee? 

A I thought we were talking about serving. Persons don’ 

come to the meeting they are not serving. 
          408:   
 



  

  

  
  

THE COURT: 

The thrust of his question is in finding people to 

make the appointments? 

A Your Honor, I don't recall that specific point. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

All right, sir. I next direct your attention to 

number twelve. I think I have not moved the introduction 

of Exhibit 103 and I so move. 

THE COURT: 

Let it in. 

(Plaintiff's Exhibit number 103 received 

and marked, in evidence) 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Item number twelve, the codes advisory committee tard 

there have been no blacks.   
| Why is that, Mr. Mims? 

| ‘ I could not answer that. 

Q Architects, structural engineer, mechanical engineer, 

electrical engineer, member of the building trades, a 

general contractor, home builders, real estate -- this is a 

body that passes on what building codes will be adopted and 

ntaiced by the City of Mobile; is that correct? 

A This is correct. 

THE COURT: 

  

  409               

  

  

    
MR. BI 

THE CC 

MR. BI 

     



  

  

  

  

  

  

’ 951 
Cran 0G. 11 : 

Does that imclude residences? 

£5 | A All buildings, sir. 

| THE COURT: 

All right. 

. BLACKSHER: 

5 | In point of fact, Mr. Mims, not all or very few of | 

i the people on this list, and I have that list before me, | 

a very few of them are actually recommended by an outside : 

agency; isn't that correct, or do you krov? | 

A I do not have the list before me. | 

MR. BLACKSHER: | 

I think we will introduce this into evidence, your 

Honor. This is the list and the ordinance that creates this | 

whera particular committee. Perhaps 18 witlve useful to have all | 

| of these in the record. ; : 

| (Plaintiff's Exhibit number 104 received 

and marked, in evidence.) 

eer, | MR. BLACKSHER: 

| I will go on to the next one, your Honor. 

4 | I move the introduction of 104. . 

id | THE COURT: 

It is admitted. Go ahead. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Item thirteen is the commission on progress. 

410 +               
 



  

  

      

  

As I understand it, that is a committee that you 

personally had some responsibility in forming? 

A This commission was in existence when I assumed office 

in 1965. It was called a bi-racial committee. It was at my 

suggestion, after the racial strife of the sixties and we 

moved on to trying to make progress in other areas, that we 

changed the name to commission on progress, because the 

group was considering matters other than race related matters 

and matters that dealt with things other than race, but I have 

had close association with this committee or this commission 

over the years that I have been in office and this committee 

has done a good work fer the people of Mobile. 

Q There was a conscious effort to insure there were a 

repetitive number of black people on this committee, I take 

it? 

A Yes. It was established as a bi-racial committee 

from, the very beginning. 

Q What was some of the other areas that this committee 

got into that caused you to change its name? 

A Well, economic -- in the area of economics. In other 

words, trying to obtain jobs for people and see that every 

one could get a good job in Mobile. We have put forth every 

effort down through the years. 

This committee has also discussed problems as they 

411 ° 
reeset emm—_-E 

    

   

    

  

      

  
       



  

  
    

  
  

: 953 

related to police in public works and other functions of 
you 

city government. So, at their meetings, many many different 

matters have been discussed, parks and playgrounds and 
ed office 

public work matters and police matters and general govermmental 
18 at my 4 

4 services, all of these things have been discussed by this 
d we 

committee. 
hat we 

. Q It sounds like it was duplicating the function of 
he 

| a number of other bodies that we have been talking about? 
. matters i | 

A Well, I am sure there would be some overlapping in 
ut I have 

a number of areas. 
mission 

Q The important thing is that it had a bi-racial 
mmittee 

composition, as I understand it, that was intended to create 

a sign of unity in the community on these issues? 
were a : 

A I think it did create unity and created much more 
I take 

unity than maybe it was given credit for having created. 

Q You nevertheless thought the term bi-racial committee 
ttee 

was not an adviseable thing to have during the last part of 

the sixties? 
mmittee 

A During the late sixties it was known as a bi-racial 

| committee and then, at some point in time and I could not 
In other 

| tell you when the name was changed, but it was, at my 
every 

recommendation, and I made a newsrelease on it and it is 
h every : : 

all a matter of record. We did recommend to change the name 

because it was dealing with matters other than purely race 

fey 412: 

  

            
 



954 
  

  

related matters. 

Q Have you had any trouble finding black people to 

serve on this committee, Mr. Mims? 

A We, as far as I know, have been able to get people 

to serve, not every one has one hundred percent-attendance. 

It is spasmodic, as far as attendance is concerned, on both 

the black side and the white side. 

Q Okay. I next direct your attention to iten fourteen, 

the educational building authority. 

As I understand it, this was some sort of authority 

established to enable city bonds to be sold to finance 

capital improvements on some aducational facilities; is that 

correct? 

A So far as I know. You will have to refresh my 

memory with some of these authorities, if you don't mind. 

Q You don't happen to know which educational facllitied 

received the benefit of these bonds, do you? 

A On this particular authority I could not tell you, 

to save my soul. 

Q It wasn't the Mobile County Board of school commissid 

the public school system, was it? 

A I do not know. 

Q Could it have been some private schools? 

A I just said I do not know, counsel, 
        ners,   413 

  

mistal 

THE C( 
         



  

  

  
  

3: i 955 

A Q Who would know, Mr. Mims? 

he 
3 A Well, I assume that Mr. Arendall has the file with 

to we g 
4 the functions of these various authorities. I am sorry, 

5 
& your Honor, I didn't bring all of this up here with me and 

eople a 

& I hope the Court will understand that I can't remember all 
dance. $e 

ig of this. 

n both he 3 : 
w As we indicated yesterday, we set these authorities 

& up and they serve as a vehicle for financing and we have 

ourteen, ® 
very little to do with it once the group comes to us and 

asks us to form this committee or this authority. They go 
hority : : 

on with the function and provide the buildings for public 
p 

use. So, I really -- I have been too concerned with drainage.... 

Is that : 12 
MR. ARENDALL: 

If your Honor please, we have furnished to ‘the 
y : 

plaintiffs a list of the membership of each of these‘'various 

Ind. 
| commissions and boards and indications of by whom they were 

~ilities 
! appointed or recommended and the copy of the ordinance under 

which they serve. I see, as to this particular one -- and 

you, . 
I don't know this adds anything or will trigger anything 

in Mr. Mims's mind, but this says it was the.,application of 
>mmissigners, 

Messrs. C. T. Cartee and Guy W. Reynolds and so forth. 

A I remember a Dr. Thomas, a lady, if I am not 

mistaken. 

THE COURT: 

eee st 414: '             
 



| : 
k sib vine i a ti ol   

  

    

  

  

Does that trigger what they came to you for in the 

purpose of the authority? 

A They came to be able to raise funds to promote an 

educational facility. 

THE COURT: 

Was it a private school? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Was it a private school? 

A . I know Dr, Thomas is associated with a private school 

So help me, I do not know what the ordinance says. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

It doesn't identify the school location or anything. 

What is the name of the private school that Dr. Thomas is 

associated with, Mr. Mims? 

A: It is my understanding that the school is located 

on Government Street. 

THE, COURT: 

Do you know the name of it? 

A No, sir. 

MR. ARENDALL: : 

Whereabouts on Government Street? 

A The school is located across from Constantines 

Restaurant. 

MR_. BLACKSHER: 
      415   

956 

    

  

  

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Gulf Coast Academy? 

A That is correct. I spoke at their graduation 

exercise not long ago and I could not remember the name. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

That academy has an all white enrollment, does it 

not? 

A I could not testify to that fact. 

Q Did you see any blacks in attendance when you spoke 

there? 

A I don't recall any blacks being at the graduation 

exercise. 

Q Okay. The next one is item fifteen, Mobile area 

public higher education foundation, 

This has to do with the University of South Alabama, 

doesn't it? 

A I do not have the record in front of me. 

Q Mr. Cleverdon is on the committee, Mr. Herron, 

Mr. Little and Mr. Crowe. 

A That sounds like the University of South Alabama 

program. . 

MR. ARENDALL: 

And Mr. Langan. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Right. Mr. Langan, Mr. Smith and others. I won't 

  

  

    4165   
 



  

  

read this into the record. 

Is there any particular reason why there were no 

blacks, to your knowledge, appointed to this particular 

committee? 

A No. TI do not know that. I think perhaps that was 

set up before my time at City Hall. 

Q : Well, yes. It was set up, apparently, in June of 

1962. The appointments ranged though from -- well, except 

for one year in 1962, they ranged from 1970 up to 1976. 

A Well, normally...... 

MR. ARENDALL: 

May I call your attention that according to this 

apparently the only appointment has come up on this board 

since Mr. Mims-came up on the commlsaton was Mr. Joe Langan’ 

original appointment must have expired and he was re-appoint 

on September 30, 1974, and that is the only appointment the 

City Commission has had since that time. 

THE COURT: 

The city has one appointment to that board? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

I will put this in evidence. It indicates to me the 

original appointments were 10/1/70 and others in '70, '72 

and one in '74. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

  

  

  
4 

MR. BL 

THE COI 

THE CO\ 

appoint 

THE COIl 

MR. BL! 

  

        417          



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was 

of 

cept 

is 

ard 

sl 

point 

> the 

  

  
  

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I beg your pardon. I see they were originally 

appointed in 1970. TI apologize to you. I misread it. 

THE COURT: 

Who are the other appoluting authorities? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Do you know, Mr. Mims? 

A I am sorry. It does say on the list. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

There are sbme county appointments. 

THE COURT: 

How many? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Five. 

THE COURT: 

County appointments? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Yes, sir. And there are some school board 

appointments numbering six. 

THE COURT: 

That is the county school board? R 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

That's all we have. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

  

  
Jim, it could be that the Cleverdon was also a county! 

      318”



  

  

  

  

  

                  

- 960 

appointment. Apparently, the city has six and the school 
blacks 

board has six -- that is, the county has six. 
A 

THE COURT: 
3 ; interes 

So there are ten members rather than six members of 
: make co 

that board. 
raise f 

MR. BLACKSHER: | 
| improve 

More than that, your Honor. 
: in the 

MR. ARENDALL: 
from th 

It would be at least six and six is twelve and six 
Q 

more would be eighteen. 
communi 

THE COURT: : . 
A 

Okay. 
: Q 

MR. ARENDALL: 
sevente 

Assuming that Mr. Cleverdon was appointed by somebody 

and he is on it. 
three C 

MR. BLACKSHER: 
is that 

’ We offer this. . 

f (Plaintiff's Exhibit number 105 received 2 

| and marked, in evidence.) 
k area? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 
5 A 

Next I will direct your attention to number sixteen, 
: area. 

fine arts museum of the south at Mobile, which indicates there 3 

have been two blacks out of a total of forty-one members over 

; : there? 

4 the years. 

b TH 9 
£ 

-— > 

4  



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zs of 

six 

xebody 

een, 

; ther   
  

961 
  

  

Do you know why there have not been any more 

blacks than that on this commission? 

A As we indicated previously, normally peosta who are 

interested in arts are appointed to this board, people who 

make contributions and go out in the community and try to 

raise funds that would help operate it and make capital   improvements. People who express a great deal of interest 

in the arts have been appointed and recommendations have come 

from the various groups. 

Q There are a substantial number of blacks in this 

community who are interested in the arts, aren't there? 

A I am sure there must be. | 

Q Fort Conde plaza development authority, number 

seventeen. There have been no blacks on that committee. | 

I believe your testimony was that it consisted of | 

three City Commissioners and property owners from t hat area; 

is that correct? 

  

A That is correct. 

Q Are there no black property owners in the Fort Conde 

area? : 

A I have no knowledge of any blacks owning land in ‘thst 

area. 

Q There are some black theidenrs of that area, aren't 

there? 
          450 |



  

  

  

A Absolutely not. No residents at all in that area, 

at this point. 

THE COURT: 

He means the immediate adjoining area. 

A Well, your Honor, this authority has to do with 

the property located within the interchange. 

THE COURT: 

Well, limit ours to that area. 

A . Well, that was what I was talking about. No, sir. 

Not that I know of. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Eighteen is the Mobile Historical Development 

Commission of which there have been a total of one hundred 

and thirteen members over the years. None of whom are black. 

Can you explain that, Mr. Mims? 

A Only that we indicated yesterday that we received 

recommendations from the various agencies that concerned 

themselves with historic preservation and development and 

we accept these recommendations as they come to us. Normally 

they will give us, number one and number two, and we normally 

select the number one recommendation on the list. 

n Well, this would certainly indicate that there aren't 

any blacks who are interested in the historical development 

of Mobile. You don't think that is true, do you? 

r 

        321   -   
  

A 

heard fr 

Q 

basinks 

by the S 

excuse m 

this par 

basic va 

from the 

settling 

ise the 

had sett 

were in 

pr thodox 

living h 

The few 

Jatin va 

ppproxim 

}ndtan o: 

on the v. 

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developm 
     



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sir. 

»rmally     
  

is 

Hd [Were in strong contrast to the educated, conservative and 

\ 

963 
  

A All I can do is speak from experience. I haven't 

heard from too many who were interested in it. 

9) I am reading now, Mr. Mims, from Exhibit 76, Plaintiffs 

Exhibit 76, which is this neighborhoods of Mobile published 

by the South Alabama Regional -- City Planning Commission, 

excuse me, page three. Says the essential -- the topic of 

this paragraph, "People, values and a swelling tone".   
"The essential population characteristics and broadly 

basic values of today existed at this latter time. Migrants | 

from the eastern seaboard, scotch, irish, and english, were 

: [settling as farmers in northern Alabama and were the first to 

| 
ise the Tombigbee and Alabama rivers for transportation. Many 

had settled in Mobile; their uneducated, rough and tumble way. 

| 

prthodox habits of the former New England traders and merchant 

living here. Yet, eventually there was merger of divergence. 

w
i
r
e
s
 

rhe few remaining french and spanish families contributed 

Jatin values to those of the two major groups. Although 

approximately one-third of the population at this time was 

indian or negro, these two minorities had little direct effect 

bn the value structure found in the city." 

So, according to this report of Mobile Planning   
Comission, negroes have had little to do with the historic 

evelopment? 
Ta LER     dc’   
 



  

A They have had little to do with it. 

n " Would you agree with the statement? 

THE COURT: 

I believe the statement is little effect. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

I think you are right, your Honor. 

THE COURT: 

I just listened to what you said. 

IMR. BLACKSHER: 

It says they have had little effect on the value   tructure found in the city. Would you agrée with that? 

Well, that is a document of the City of Mobile and I 

upport the document. 

0} Okay. I next direct your attention to number nineteen, 

he Independence Day celebration committee. 

Is that the committee that plans the fair at Ladd 

tadium ort the 4th of July? 

This is correct. 

* I see it has only one black person out of fourteen 

embers. Can you explain that? 

Well, I can't explain the ratio, one to fourteen, but 

I didn't understand your answer. 

J} can say that all fourteen of these are not active. 

I said I could not explain the ratio of one to 
      423   

  

        

fourteen. 

been acti 

mistaken 

evidence. 

¢ 

MR. BLACE 

> 

black mem 

C 

you saw a 

lat that e 

A = 

I don't t 

R C 

recently 

band and 

floats we 

A rT 

who gave 
      

  

 



  - : 965 

fourteen. However, I could say that all fourteen have not 

been active. The black member has been activer If I am not 

mistaken it is Mr. Leroy Davis, a very fine businessman.. 

Q And he was appointed by you, in fact? 

A I think that's right. 

0 I think I will introduce this list of members into 

  

evidence. For the record it shows who appointed them and when, 

(Plaintiff's Exhibit number 106 received 

and marked, in evidence) 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Mr. Doyles and Mr. Greenough have not appointed any 

black members to that commission. 

1-1 

  

Do you suppose that might have anything to do with whv 

you saw a smaller turn out than you expected of black people 

pteen A ’ $0 lat that event? 

  

A No. I don't think that has anything to do with it. 

ih I don't think the membership on the committee has a thing 

in the world to do with the number of people who turned out. 

R Could we talk about the event that we all witnessed here 

recently just a second? Now, it started out with a marching 

  

band and then there were some floats that came out. Among those 

but floats were there any blacks riding those floats? 

A I think there was a black lady on one of the floats 
. 

  

who gave the pledge to the flag. 
A — - Sr ——— i ——————————— x | | TARE             
 



  

  
  

  

      

- lat 966 

question. 
Q You are absolutely correctr She was the only black 

Q T 

person on the platform, as I recall, 
a very fi 

A ~ Well, that might be true, but I call your attention to 

; style of 
the previous years when we had black ministers on the platform 

culture, 

and on a number of occasions have had black people on the 
A I 

platform. This year, maybe one was on the platform, but that 

| christian 
|has not been the case every year. I know the first year we 

| : ill feeli 
had it we had the bishop, I think it was a black man from 

be a fact 
New Orleans, came here and gave the invocation and other 

Q I 
blacks have been on it, too. I think Bishop Smith has been 

tired of 
on it and other blacks in years passed. I am.sure the 

to that e 
committee, when they were ........ 

A W 
Q Well, what happened this year? There was a 

| Q A 
conspicuous absence of blacks on that field this year and 

Brass. 
'I wondered what happened. 

I A A 
iA Well, I am not a member of that planning committee. ; 

| | 
iQ Ww 

Mr. locket is chairman of that committee and they have worked 
y one rousi 

extremely hard to put on a good show for all of the people 

A w 
lof Mobile every year and we run ads in the Beacon and run 

: major sta 

ads in the Mobile Press Register and we encourage people 

Q A 
land I have been on the radio time and time again on all 

| 
A . W 

'stations encouraging people to come to the Independence Day 

stand, bu 
celebration. We can't make people come to the stadium to ; 

to be fra 

    celebrate the birthday of our nation. I can't answer. ‘that 

at                



er
t 

  
i iin 967 

question. 

Q The two principle entertainers were Mr. Jerry Clower, 

a very fine comedian. I think you would have to adfite that hip 

style of humour was not ethnicly aligned with the black : 

culture, would you? 

A I didn't look at it that way. Mr. Clower is a fine   
christian man and I know he doesn't have any animosity or 

| 

F i 
| 

ill feelings toward any race or nationality. I think that to ; 

be a fact. | 

Q In point of fact, he made one joke of how he was 

tired of shiftless people who weren't working or something 

to that effect. 

A Well, of course, if the shoe fits you have to wear it. 

Q And the second major entertainer was the Nashville   
A A very fine group of entertainers, yes. 

"ad lq Who played a number of excellent songs, including 

one rousing rendition of Dixie, as I recall. 

A Well, that is correct and I was amazed that a black 

major standing right in front of me stood up. 

Q Along with everybody else, at that point? 

A Well, if you were watching me, I was reluctant to 

stand, but I am an American and I believe in our country and,   to be frank with you, I am a little reluctant to stand to 

426 
      a

 
w
—
       
 



  

; : 968 
  

  

anything other than to Amazing Grace and the Star 

Spangled Banner. . 

Q I appreciate that, Mr. Mims. Let's move on to the 

next one. ~ The industrial development board is number twenty 

and there have been no blacks out of a total of fifteen 

members. The industrial development board, the ordinance 

does not tell us what use is going to be made of the monies, 

the capital monies, that will be raised through these municipal 

bonds. I take it that is what it was for, wasn't it? 

A The industrial development board is a vehicle whereby 

industries can obtain funds to expand or develop new industries 

that create jobs and, over the years, many nendeads and even 

thousands of jobs have been created because of this board's 

involvement and because it can be used to obtain the funds 

for industrial development and, of course, we have blacks and   whites in all segments of the community working at these 
| 

industries that have been provided because of this industrial 
  

     

  

development board. 
| businesss 
0 According to the list here, every one of the members 

cular boa 
has been recommended by the Mobile Chamber of Commerce? 

A : 
A I am sure this is correct. 

Q F 
0 And to get back to my last question, which really 

Mobile tH 
wasn't answered. Can you tell me some of the plants, factoriep 

: A G 
or businesses that have benefited from these bonds? 

— board anc 

427              



nty 

Pet
e 

0 fe
 

o
 Po
 

Fi
 

pial 

ner S   
  

969   

A Well, a number of them. I think both of the paper 

mills have benefited from these bonds, the new paint company 

going in down at the Theodore Industrial Complex. I don't 

have the list, but a number of firms have benefited and the 

community has benefited. 

Q Smith's Bakery? 

A It is my understanding that Smith's Bakery used 

industrial development bonds, yes. 

Q And Coca-Cola Company, Delchamps? 

A Well, there are a number of them and all of them mean 

an awfully lot to this community. They have big payrolls. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

We offer this. 

(Plaintiff's Exhibit number 107 received 

and marked, in evidence) 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Wouldn't you think there were a number of black 

businessmen that would be interested in serving on that parti- 

cular board? 

A I do not know. ' 

Q Do you have any boards or committees for the City of 

Mobile that provide development bonds for minority enterprises? 

A Well, anyone has an opportunity to come before this 

board and seek funds or seek a bond program that would generate 
          428:  



970 
  

funds without regard to race. So, I would suggest that 

minority groups or anyone else who would be interested would 

come before this board. 

Q De. $6i know whether or not any minority groups have, 

in fact, used it? 

A I do not know. 

Q I am going to skip over a number of these and try to 

make these move along a little faster, Mr. Mims, unless there 

is something you would like to say about any of them. 

You said, at this point in your direct testimony, that 

the City Commission has little to do with these boards after 

the members are appointed; is that correct? 

A These boards that are set up on these authorities that 

are set up for strictly financing, we have very little to do 

with it. Now, I am not saying that we have very little to 

do with all of these boards, because you skipped over one of 

the mést important ones. 

0 The Housing Board? | 

A That's right. A very important board and we do make   appointments to this board and we do have close relationships 

with this board. 

W finance a lot of projects. The city of Mobile has 

expended millions upon millions of dollars of urban renewal 

funds that have cleaned out slums and provided better housing 

    429,     
2
 

  

  

been bu: 

have als: 

correct’ 

A 

sections 

THE COUF 

MR. BLAC 

Commissi 

function 

A - 

     



ould 

ave, 

y to 

here 

970 

  
  

  

for our people. 

0 You will admit that the majority of the clientale 

for the public housing board are black? 

A This is correct. 

Q And concerning the public housing projects that have 

been built by the City of Mobile it is also a fact that they 

have also been located in black neighborhoods; isn't that 

correct? 

A Well, they are located in predominantly the older 

sections of the city, because this is ........ 

THE COURT: | 

Well, are they predominantly black? 

A Your Honor... coves 

. [THE court: 

I am speaking of where the work was taking place. 

A Well, yes. I would say so. 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Back to my point about the involvement, of the City 

Commissioners once these boards are appointed. 

Was it my understanding that they pretty much 

functioned on their own once they are set up? 

A Well, this is true and, as I testified earlier, I 
    450°    



  

    

972 
  

appoint people to these committees and boards that I have 

confidence in and I don't pull strings. 

puppets on the string for Lambert Mims when I appoint them. 

We depend upon these people to run these operations. 

Now, that doesn't mean we don't have close communication or 

close association with these people. We have one of our 

own City Commissioners serving on the water and sewer board. 

Well, certainly we discussed water and sewer board 

problems and we have these people serving on the housing 

board and we discuss problems as they relate to the 

community. 

THE COURT: 

Now, 

them rather are established for a specific purpose and, after 

that purpose is accomplished, some of them become dormant. 

I am not sure about the Mobile Housing Board. 

members salaried members who function day to day or is this 

an advisory board that just advises the Mobile Housing 

Board? 

A Your Honor, the Mobile Housing Board is more than an 

advisory board. 

THE COURT: 

First, is it a full time job? 

A No. 

it seems most of these boards are ~-- many of 

These businessmen are appointed. 

/ / 

It is an operating board. 

They are not 

Are these 

      431: 
  

  

    

      

  

THE COU. 

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instruc 

a full 

THE COU: 

contact 

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them ou- 

commiss 

MR. BLA=- 

  

  

   



972   

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THE COURT: 

These are advisory people to whom? 

A No, sir. These men serve as a board and they give 

instructions to the director, the executive director, who is 

a full time man and he has a staff. 

THE COURT: 

That is what I wanted to know. 

A But this is a very responsible group of people and 

they handle millions of not only local, but federal monies. 

THE COURT: 

About how often does the board meet? 

A I think it meets twice monthly, your Honor, and 

then on call as needed. 

THE COURT: 

Some function -- I realize the comparison is not 

exact, but something like a board of directors of a business 

institution? 

A This is correct. If I might add, we have more 

contact with the executive director than we do actually with 

the members of the board, because the members of the board 

set the policies and the executive director then has to carry 

them out and he communicates quite frequently with all three 

commissioners and with the board of commissioners. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

      = 43317  



i 

| 

ped   

  

  
  

  

That is Mr. Jimmy Alexander? 

A That is correct. 

Q Who, for the record, is white? 

A White color or named white? 

0] Race. 

A Well, Mr. Gray is a black man on the board. The wise 

MAN. «+o ss 

THE COURT: 

Well, all right. We are going through them and I 

would like to know something of their -- not a lot, but is 

he a business man or social worker or government employee, 

or what?   

A No, sir. Wholesale supplies of some kind, flooring 

IA All right. Let me take them one at a time, your 

| 
Honor. Mr. Gray is a black man on the board and he is with 

five Mobile County Public School system and, if I am not 

| 
mistaken, he is an assistant principal at Shaw High School. 
| | 
THE COURT: 

All right. 

A Mr. Norman Cox is the president of the Patterson 

Company. 

THE COURT: 

Is that a lumber company? 

hnd things such as this. 

    433. ..             
  

  

THE COURT: 

Al 

A An 

Mobile Rug 

THE COURT: 

Al 

A Th 

or superin 

THE COURT: 

Al 

A An 

  

THE COURT: 

Al 

MR. BLACKS 

Yo 

Mr. Mims he 

E COURT: 

Al 

(P 

a 

MR. BLACKS 

By 

by either 

         



ied 

978 
  

THE COURT: 

All right. 

A And then Mr. David Frielander who is president of 

Mobile Rug and Shade Company. 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

A Then there is Mr. Howard Adair who is the supervisor 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

A And then there is a Mr. Gary Ellis who is the owner 

pf a drugstore and he is a pharmacist. 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Your Honor, I am introducing, as 108, the list that 

Mr. Mims has just gone through. 

  
E COURT: 

All right. 

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 108 was received 

and marked, in evidence) 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

By the way, Mr. Mims, Mobile Rug and Shade is owned 

by either you or your brother; is that correct? 

or superintendent with the South Central Bell Telephone Company. 

    
  

  434        



976 
  

  

  

A Absolutely not. I wish it were. 

Q You are not connected with it? 

A Absolutely not, Mr, Friedlander is the owner of 

Mobile Rug and Shade Company. 

0 All right. In any event, what is your explanation 

for why there aren't more blacks on this board that affects 

the lives of so many black citizens of this community? 

A I think the black community is teprasarived and it has 

been represented by Mr. LeFlore, who served on this board and 

served ably, and as far as I am concerned, the blacks have 

representation with the white members. 

Q So you think they are adquately represented now? 

A Yes, because I know that these men that I have 

appointed to this board are just as interested in the blacks 

as they are the whites. 

Q Now, sir, we will go to item thirty, which is the 

Mobile Library board which has had two black members out of 

a total of twenty over the years. : 

You wouldn't suggest, would you, that black citizens 

of Mobile are not interested in the public library? 

A Not at all. 

Q Can you explain why there have been so few blacks 

appointed to this board? 

A Not really. This board is more or less an advisory       435   

  

  

board 

the bo. 

librar: 

why th 

this p: 

who are 

many b! 

and sa: 

library 

interes 

A 

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kay bla 

A 

is a fa 

the lis 

         



acks 

.zens 

ory 

  

  

977 
  

  
the list before me, but these people are vitally interested 

board to the commission and in charge of the libraries and 

the board of commissioners. The personnel who works for the 

library board is under civil service and I could not tell you 

why there is a two to fourteen ratio. 

We, again, try to appoint people who are interested in 

this particular phase of our community activity and people 

who are willing to devote time to it. So, perhaps not too 

many blacks have shown an interest in it or have come forth 

and said we would like to have a part in the operation of the 

library system. 

Q Now, I take it that you haven't gone out and actively 

sought black participation on this board then? 

A No. I haven't personally, no. 

Q Similarly the next one, trom thirty-one, the greater 

Mobile Mental Health Retardation Board indicates that there 

fare no black members. 

You would not suggest, would you, that blacks aren't 

interested in mental health and retardation in Mobile? 

A No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't suggest that at all. 

9) Do you have any explanation for why there haven't been 

any blacks appointed to this board? : 

A As I indicated yesterday, if I am not mistaken, this 

is a fairly new board and these members -- and I do not have 

    © 436        



  

and have expressed great concern for mantal health and 

retarded children and retarded people. There are some people 

who are more interested than others and I have found people 

who have members or people of their family affected in these 

areas are more apt to press for these needs than others. 

Q Well, once again, I will ask you if there have not 

been saris black citizens of this conenity who have expressed 

interest in the mental health problems of the community? 

A I can't recall any blacks belns in any meetings with 

reference to mental health problems. Now, there may have 

been. I am not saying there haven't been, but to the best of 

my recollection, as citizens and we have had a number of group 

who have come to City Hall with reference to the mental 

health program, interested citizens, and to.the best of my 

recollection there have been no blacks among those who come 

seeking funds or support for mental health. 

0 i Are you familiar with, Mr. Mims, with the Searcy 

Hospital Human Rights Committee that was appointed by the 

Federal Court in Montgomery? 

A Just what I have read in the media is all I know about 

ie. 

D .You are aware that there are black members on that 

rommittee, aren't you? 

A I am not aware of the make-up of that committee. 

  

    43%       
  

  

  

Q 

Mobile 

import 

  
are on 

to both 

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Q 

one bla 

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Q I think you said, concerning numbar thirty-three, the 

Mobile Planning Commission, that it also is one of the most 

important commissions of city government; is that correct? 

‘A I would say so, because it has to do with Planning 

and zoning. 

Q Do you have any explanation for why there have been   
A No. I know the gentleman who is on there now and the | 

one who was on there prior to this gentleman being on, but 

I could not tell you why the ratio is one to seven. 

Again, this is one of those things where you really   
are on the hot seat and you have to spend long hours listenir~ 

to both sides with their arguments and presentations, and it 

is not easy to get people who will take this pressure, free   
of charge, to be quite frank with you. 

Q Are you suggesting that the Presence of one member, 

one black member on this commission, is an adequate representa- 

tion of black citizens of this community? 

A Well, I would think all seven of these members 

represent the community adequately, regardless of a person's 

color, when he comes before the commission for a zoning matter. 

I think they are represented adequately.     Q Well, let's talk about zoning for a moment.   Can't you agree with me that the white members of the 

      

no more than two of fifteen blacks on that planning commission? 

979 

  

_ 438* vo    



  

  

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committee are going to be less familiar with the black resider 

nnd business areas of a city? 

A No. I cannot agree with that because simply the 

chairman of this commission, at this time, every week before 

these matters come before the commission gets with the member 

of the planning staff at his own expense and on his own time 

and he visits every one of these sites that is coming before 

that planning commission the next day .or the next week. He 

goes out into the communitites on hiw own at his own expense 

and familiarizes himself with these matters that are coming 

before that commission. 

Q Mr. Mims, I said my point was that one can go out 

and inspect the various sites that are the subject of the 

attention of the planning cormisoton, but unless one lives 

in the area one is not going to know what the sentiments of   | the residents or the peorle of the community are about how 

that land is being used; would you agree with that? 

a No. I would not agree with that. 

0 Well, you have appointed Mr. John L. Blacksher to that 

commission, have you not, the planning commission? 

A Yes. 

Q And is that the same Mr. John L. Blacksher about whom 

we heard complaints earlier that owned a lumber company in 

the Maysville area that was causing a nuisance? 

  

_ 439:       

980 

tial 

  

  

Q 

feelir 

zoned 

       



  

  

  

— 1 380 Ta mb ; 1.981 

residentia] A Yes. 

Q Do you think Mr. Blacksher is familiar with the 

$e feelings and sentiments in that area about the way it is 

before zoned and planned? 

Beuber A I think Mr. Blacksher is, because Mr. Blacksher has 

Ri; tive met with the citizens of that area when they had a complaint 

Before about his company. He went and met with them at one of the 

ie local churches right next to his place of business and, as 

ipense far as I know, Mr. Blacksher, with the exception of the lady 

ming who testified here the other day, has good raport with his 

neighborhood. 

out Q Does Mr. Blacksher live im that same neighborhood? 

Ehe A No. Mr. Blacksher doesn't live there. 

yes Q His address here is Tuthill Lane. Is that in 

ES of Springhill, the western end of town? 

id A Yes. 

Q Item thirty-four is the policeman, fire fighters 

pension and relief fund board and has had seven members over 

fo thel the years -- excuse me, has had ten members over the years, 

seven at present, none of whom has been black, 

| Now, I agree that there are relatively few, but there 

it hon are some black policemen and fire fighters; is that correct? 

Ch A Y think the record will prove that we have Black 

jy : policemen and fire fighters; yes, sir. 

_ 440             
 



    

  

Q Is there any reason why none has been appointed to 

this particular pension and relief fund board? : 

A Well, I think it was brought out yesterday that most 

of these members of this particular board are people who are 

familiar with banking and people who are familiar about 

financial matters and the whole idea is to try to get as much 

interest as you can from the money that you have available in 

the fund so that it will be able to pay the pensions of both 

black and white people when they retire. 

Q My notes indicate, on direct, that you said or 

Mr. Arendall said that three bankers, one business man, one 

investment businessman, the fire chief 2nd he police chief? 

A I think that is correct. 

Q You are not suggesting that there aren't any black   \business men or bankers? 

A Well, I have appointed a black banker or a savings 

land loans man, a Mr. Davis, to various committees and have 

ved him as an advisor on a number of occasions. I have a 

high respect for Mr. Davis who is a savings and loan man, but 

Mr. Davis happens not to be on this particular board. 

{ 

Q You say Mr. Davis is the only black banker or business 

man that you know? 

A I didn't say that. 

Q There are plenty of others? 

      

    
  

  

  

you, that 

Mobile? 

A W 

who have 

don't kno 

tree comm 

A   
to serve. 

Mobile an. 

desire to 

I wouldn': 

run three 

of their c 

Q Ax 

Just haver 

demonstrat 

A I 

people haw 

should haw 

Q It 

council. 

    431 
-        



982 

most 

> are 

3 much 

>le in 

both 

one 

1ief? 

ack 

18iness   
  

od Mobile and public works commissioner is because I had a sinc 

  

983 
  

A I don't know that many black bankers, no, but I know 

a lot of black businessmen, certainly. 

Q You are not suggesting or you wouldn't suggest, would 

you, that blacks aren't interested in where trees are cut in 

Mobile? 

A Well, let me say this, I don't know of any blacks 

who have expressed a great deal of opinion about trees. I 

don't know of any who have expressed a desire to serve on the 

tree commission. 

As far as I am concerned, people have to have a desirs 

to serve. The only reason I am sitting here today as mayor of 

desire to serve the people. If I hadn't have had that desire 

I wouldn't have offered myself to run and I wouldn't have 

run three times. So, people have to have a desire regardless 

of their color. 

Q Are you inferring that black people in this community 

just haven't had the desire, get up and go that you have 

demonstrated? 

A I am saying that I do not believe that the black 

people have expressed the interest in the community that they 

should have. I will say that emphatically. 

Q Item thirty-six is your neighborhood improvement 

council. It goes around various neighberhoods holding meeting 

ire 

8, 

    _ 442    



  

encouraging paint up, fix up, clean up. 

THE COURT: 

What number is that? Mine is stapled together here. 

A Thirty-six, your Honor, 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

For example, problems with street lights, chairman of 

the committee, when he hears a complaint, will write you a 

memo personally that you can take action on. There have only 

been six of forty-nine blacks on that council. 

Surely black citizens in this comiunisy, I think from 

the testimony, are interested in their neighborhoods. Do you 

have any explanation for why there are no more blacks than that 

represented? 

A I could not answer that specifically, but it would be 

interesting to know if some of these blacks who have testified 

in this Court have been to these neighborhood improvement 

council meetings and have expressed themselves there. They 

certainly haven't expressed themselves to me as public works 

commissioner. In fact, I have met people here in this Court 

that I have never seen before. 

R Well, let's see, what was this other group, community 

pervice meetings that you mentioned along this point, in your 

    =   343         een ——————————— 

  

  

direct t 

improvem 

improvem 

A 

all tryi 

Q 

the neig 

through 

A 

improvem 

la practi. 

meeting. 

Q 1 

through 1 

A Y 

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needs of 

A ¥ 

brought t 

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here. 

han that 

uld be 

estified 

nt 

They 

works 

Court   
  

985 
  

  
a practice to attend every neighborhood improvement council 

© - |Imeeting. 

direct testimony, what is the relationship to the neighborhood 

improvement council? 

A Well, the community service meetings that I initiated 

a number of years ago were primarily for ........   Q No. What is its relationship to the neighborhood 

improvement council? 

A There is no relationship with the exception we are 

all trying to meet the needs of the community. 

Q So you don't go into the neighborhood meetings through 

the neighborhood improvement council, but you have gone in 

through these community service meetings?   A This is correct. I have attended neighborhood 

improvement council meetings in the past, but I don't make it 

Q You say you have tried to go into all of the communitil 

through these commmity service meetings? 

A Yes. . 

n And it is the only way you know of of finding out the 

needs of the commmities? : 

A Well, let me say this, many of the needs have been ° 

brought to the City government's attention, because we have 

gone into the communities and many of the needs have been met 

because they were called to our attention at a community servi 

es 

  bd HN       ~ 4430 
—



  

  

  

  

  

    
      

ed 9 

meeting in a given neighborhood and so, I say without any guarde 

hesitation, that the community service meetings have been 

very beneficial to the people of Mobile and they have allowed Nobody 

the establ Latent of a relationship or rapport between the |1ike tI 

people and the city government that was sorely needed here. /n 

Q You testified that you have been to meetings in black there, 

areas , too? A 

A Oh, absolutely. THE COl 

Q Is that what you said in your book, Mr. Mims? 

A: Well, I think you are referring to some meetings that black f 

were held during the Reighth of racial trouble here in our strife 

city and I happened to have a copy of the book right here and MR. BLA 

I can quote you page and chapter where Mr. Outlaw and 

Mr. Langan, who was revered by the blacks and I went to the A 

Davis Avenue community center and we had ministers and preachers because 

and priests and black leaders from all over the place who THE COU 

booed, us and called us all kinds of names and called Mr. Langah, 

who was supposed to be the great hero for black people, they MR. BLA 

called him just as many names as they did me and so, in that 

kind of a situation, at char particular time, we did not go THE COU: 

back into any communities during those months when Beasley 

was marching in the streets and Rap Brown and Stokley Carmichael to some 

were making so much noise over the country and we had fire A 

bombings and there were times when I had to have my house we went 

a _ 445                



any 

pen 

11lowed 

the 

ere. 

1 black 

8 that 

our 

re and 

the 

preachers 

ho 

armichael   
  

Cl mien in : : 987 
  

  

guarded at night because of threats. 

We did not go back after we were treated so rudely. 

Nobody but a crazy person would go back after they treated us 

| 1ike they did. I will be frank with you about that. 

Q Well, there were a lot of people that stayed right 

there, the people that reside on Davis Avenue, right? 

A Sir, I don't know. 

THE COURT: 

I think we are beating a dead horse here. There were 

black people undoubtedly who stayed and it was a time of racial 

strife is his point. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 
| 

You were going to quote page and verse? 

A Well, I had heard you were going to call me a racist, 

because of my book. 

THE COURT: 

Let's don't get into an argument. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

You heard what? 

THE COURT: : 

Let's don't get into an argument. If you want to refar 

to some page, go ahead. 

A Your Honor, I was going to refer to the incident where 

we went to Davis Avenue and were treated rudely and it is in 

      = ~a46T —    



  

    
    

  
  

  

    
  

  

  

my book. 

of ext: 
THE COURT: 

not exj 
Did you want him to........ 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

is ence 
The name of the book is "For Christ and Country", by HB. BL 

Lambert C. Mims and published in 1969; is that right? Le 

A | Yes. 

introdt 
Q On page sixty-one -- well, it starts on page sixty 

THE COt 

and you talk about going into the various communities and one 

of the first communities we visited we found a disturbing MR. BLA 

situation. In addition to the people of the neighborhood who 

came to the meeting there was a large number of outsiders..... 
were fr 

THE COURT: : 
many we 

Mr. Blacksher, I really don't see any reason to that 
and nun 

It is like asking a black person to go to some extremist white to int 

meeting at a time of strife. I don't think that will 
5 seen su 

particularly help us. J ed ghbo 

MR. BLACKSHER: ) 

| The book doesn't indicate they are extremists. Let 
confere 

me read from his book. 
I made 

THE COURT: 1 ’ 
= eeting 

. The question is, you may offer testimony on what 4 oti Lean 

h EE e says was his ensuing Sonduct ang whether it was safe to go &  Matermt: 

back or not. We all know there was a time back in the sixtie 3 
believe 

_ 447              



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sixty 

and one 

‘ng 

rod who 

BS vo 00 

to that]. 

t white 

Let 

nat 

to go 

sixties 

| 988 

SEEN   
  

989 
  

{land nuns. 

of extremes strife in this coumtry and thank goodness it is 

  not expressing itself in those over actions now. 

And I think we are getting off into something that 

is encouraging arguments, so forth and so on. 

=. BLACKSHER: 

; Well, for whatever impeachment value, I will 

introduce a copy of this. 

THE COURT: 

Go ahead, Mr. Blacksher. You may do as you wish. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

"Some wets from other parts of the City and some 

were from far away. Most of these were militant blacks, but 

many were clergymen, protestant ministers, catholic priests 

to intimidate their City fathers. Never in my life have I 

seen such abuse of public officials. We discontinued the 

neighborhood meetings. 

Recently I was asked, during a television news 

conference, whether we were going to resume these meetings. 

I made the statement that I do not intend to go back to a 

meeting like that, again. To be abused and harrassed by 

militant irresponsibles whose aim, as far as some of us could 

determine, is simply to disrupt the whole City. I do not 

believe that the people who elected us to the City Commission 

| 

For nearly three hours these people accused and tried 

  

    448:        



990 

    

    

would endure this kind of thing and neither will we." 

And by the people that elected you, Mr. Mims, I 

take it you were talking about the people in the suburbs? 

A Well, I am talking about the City electorate, as a 

whole. I don't think any sane person, as I said a moment ago 

would go back and willingly present himself for this kind of 

persediition and this kind of ridicule. 

These paragraphs you have read, or this paragraph you 

are lifting out of this book that has many, many paragraphs 

that are all together different from this that talks about the 

harmony that we have and all the good we are doing in the 

commmity. You are lifting from this book, for Christ and 

Country, which has a lot of good things in it. You are lifting 

this out of context. This did not mean ....... 

THE COURT: 

I hate to keep pursuing it. I want to make a 

anda, 

We recognized that Lyndon Johnson had'to limit his 

visitations during those periods of strife and, for a period 

of time, according to the news reports, his main appearances 

were at military bases and so forth. Let's get on to something 

more productive, gentlemen. 

n Well, let's talk about plumbers, Mr. Mims. Item 

thirty-seven, Plumber's Examining Board. No blacks have ever 

      449:     
  

been = 

examin. 

appoin 

know o: 

there r 

plumbes 

Q 

thirty- 

it now 

Mr. Bai 

recomme 

of the 

A 

ment to 

rT ecomme: 

persona 

  

  

   



990 
  

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his 

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mever 

  

B   
  

991   

  

been appointed to that board. 

Can you explain why? 

A According to the, as I understand it, ordinance, 

the people on this board would be people who know something 

about plumbing. For instance, I would not be very good on 

this board because I don't know much about plumbing.   So, as I understand it, these people on this board 

examine applicants for plumbers' licenses and so we have 

appointed, in accordance with the ordinance. I do not persona 

know of a black master plumber in the City of Mobile. Now, 

there may be some. I do now know personally a black master 

plumber, for instance. 

q What about the recreation advisory board, item 

thirty-eight. There is one black person out of twenty-two? 

A Hasn't that board already served its time and isn't 

it now non-existent? 

Q My notes indicate that it was proposed by 

Mr. Bailey. They were not reappointed in 1974 and that Mr. Ba 

recommended all the names and you want Mr. Bailey to take all 

of the responsibility for it; is that it? : 

A Well, sir, I don't recall having made one appoint- 

ment to this board, personally. I concurred with Mr. Bailey's 

recommendations at the time, I am sure, but I don't recall 

personally making one of these appointments and I couldn't 

i
 

ly 

iley 

    ~ 350 —    



  

tell you, to. save my life, who was on it. 

Q Well, you certainly will agree, wouldn't you, that       there are many more blacks than indicated by this representa- 

tion that ave indicated in recreation in the City? 

A I certainly do. The black people certainly utilize 

the recreational facilities as much as anyone else in the 

community, but this is something Mr. Bailey brought up. What 

reason he wanted it for, I really do not now, and I could not 

recall. I am sure I concurred in it. I don't know whether 

the records shows I voted for it or not. It takes two to make 

a Rajorisy on a three man team, ; 

Q South Alabama Regional Planning Commission, item 

number thirty-nine. This commission has the same members,   the same terms as the Mobile Planning Commission; is that   correct? 
A This is right. 

} ‘ The Board of Water and Sewer Commissioners, item 

Jforey. One black out of twelve over the years. 

| Can you explain why there haven't been any more 

[blacks on that board, Mr. Mims? 

A Well, I think the blacks and the whites have suffi- | 

cient representation. As I said yesterday I have made one 

appointment to that board, Mr. Moore, and somehow it was 

worked around where he was the only one I can lay claim to, 
        “a51       

  

  

992 _ 
because 

commiss 

they hm 

remembes 

board. 

MR. BLA 

THE COU 

column? 

MR. BLA 

educati 

that th 

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boards 

for som 

     



that 

enta- 

  

2m 

£Fi- i 

993   

because of deaths and because of vacancies and other 

commissioners would feel that this was their appointment and 

they have, therefore, replaced these people as they vacated 

the position and I can claim only Mr. Moore, who served as 

chairman, and I think does a fantastic job as chairman. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Mr. Blacksher I will call your attention that you 

remember that Bishop Phillips was formerly a member of that 

board. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Two bLadhy out of twelve. 

MR. ARENDALL:   
Yes. 

THE COURT: 

So that should be one over in the prior black member 

column? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

All right. Mr. Mims, skip down to item forty-six,   
educational board. I understand your direct testimony to say 

that this was a board furthering the employees' education. 

1 presume you mean the employees of the City of Mobila? 

A As I understand this board, there are so many 

boards here that this could be some other board to get funds 

for someone. I do not know, but as I understand it, this is 

  

    
  

    — 

452 +  



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the board whereby City employees are screened, those who 

want to further their education, and who are seeking City 

funde for their tuition. 

Q And this board is made up of department heads of 

the City of Mobile?     

  

A : As I understand it. I do not have that list before 

i And one member elected at large? 

A If that is what the ordinance says. 

Q Or appointed from among the citizenary, I should 

say? | . 

A Yes. 

Q I guess that explains why there is no blacks on that] 

board since there are no black department heads? 

A You said it. Is that a question? 

THE COURT: 

§ ‘ Mr. Blacksher, let me see if I can get the thrust of 

your questioning. Let's see what your contentions are.     
Is it your contention that there should be a pro- 

rata membership on the boards of whites and blacks or what is 

your contention? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

  Your Honor, our contention is that responsiveness in 

the contexts of the voting rights cases has to do with the 
        | 433 

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access 

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MR. BL4 

number 

to the 

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Ao REO SE FU Ni et VA 0 ln ol ahh Did: Svat wie} IY 

access of particular segments of the community to participa- 

tion in the government 

THE COURT: 

  

I asked you a question. Do you contend that must 
o£ 

; be on a quota basis? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 
s fore 

Absolutely not. I do not contend, over a large   number of boards or a large -- there has to be weight given 

to the fact that blacks are present. 

THE COURT: 

Let me ake this observation. I cannot address 

myself, in the opinion, too many details. On such things 

that as air conditioning boards, architectural review boards, 

electrical examiners, plumbing examining boards -- and I note 

that counsel for Plaintiffs are all whites. In Title 7 cases, 

and I think I should take somewhat judicial knowledge of   
St of ; evidence that has come to the Court on these matters that 

statistics have been offered to show that in skilled places, 

and we know somewhat, for instance about lawyers, that there 

tts is a market lack of blacks who are attorneys and a marked lack 

of blacks who are in skilled positions. 

Now, that may address itself to the whole structure 

bs $n of how it came about, but I don't think it addresses itself 

: to people placed on a certain number of these boards. I only 

imi Rana 1 1 
  

              
 



  

  

  

    
  

  

it 996 

speak with reference to those, though, that call for some say the 

special talent in placing people on boards. I think we have came ab 

to be cognizant of where there ate special talents that there address 

must be sone pool from which they can reasonably be drawn. MR. BLA 

I will give you an opportunity to say anything about those 

remarks that you desire. a situa 

MR. BLACKSHER: particu 

All I would say, your Honor, is that in every case THE COU 

there has been no evidence that there are not blacks neverthe- 

less availahle for these occupations. The point of fact is require 

most of these boards-where some special skill is required, the MR. BLAS 

City Commission adopts the recommendations made by private 

industry. like lie 

THE COURT: THE COUR 

Wouldn't the same thing apply to you? There are 

some skilled black lawyers. Why aren't they here at your who has 

table? | black ox 

MR. BLACKSHER: | was blac 

I don't know how to answer that. : MR. BLAC 

THE COURT: : 

They very seldom appear in these cases. You are th with rem 

lead counsel in this case, and, in most of these cases you " plumbers 

lead counsel. Why there may be some, you have to look at it | cians, = 

overall and then we run into a very difficult area. Like I that the 

_ 455                



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say there may be, so far as the structure and how these hing 

came about, that is one thing, but I don't think those things 

address itself to this Court in this case. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Well, another point we would make, your Honor, in 

a situation where the entire citizenary has to depend on these 

particular boards and agencies for their livelihood. 

THE COURT: 

I am not talking about the other boards. These that 

require special skills are those to which I refer. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Yes. Those boards pass on applications for things 

like licenses and permits. 

THE COURT: 

Well, would you contend that you should put a person 

who has no knowledge in that position just because they are 

black or would you fly in an airplane with a pilot because he 

was black and not qualified? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

I would say, in the light of testimony of Mr. Randoly 

vith respect to difficulties for blacks getting permits to’ be 

plumbers where there are qualified black plumbers or electri- 

cians, a responsive government would make some effort to see 

that they are represented on these boards. 

bh, 

      456.      



  

  

  

  

MR. ARENDALL: 

| If your Honor please, I don't recall any testimony 

being given as to mistreatment by any of these boards. 

THE COURT: 

Go ahead. I will let you gentlemen make further   statements. Like I say, this is my only forum to make such 
: 

comments and make my views known. It is impossible to go 

into details on any decree, whichever way the case goes, one 

way or- the other. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Mr. Mims, I would like to talk about your testimony 

concerning the master drainage project. You say that began 

in 1972 and was approved or what? 

A If my memory serves me correctly, it was presented 

by the public works commissioner to the board of commissioners 

in 1972 and was improved and we began to try to program funds 

for this massive drainage program. 

Q What is it going to accomplish? ' 

A Well, it is going to alleviate flooding and correct 

erosion problems in many areas of the city. 

Q What work is being done, now? Is it all being done 

by engineers somewhere in an office? 

A Well, Mr. Blacksher, I would like for you to get 

in a car with me and I will drive you over the City.   

THE COL 

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THE COURT : 

No, let's don't engage in that kind of answer. 

A Well, we completed one not too long ago in 

Toulminville. We have one underway in one of your law firms' 

communities at Laurel and Devitt. We have a saltwater branch 

off of Dauphin Island Parkway. We have completed a two 

million dollar project called the Southern Drain in the 

southern part of the City here. 

I have a list of projects that are being built now. 

I usually carry a list in my pocket so I will know where 

people are working and big stickney, for instance, has been 

underway and that is the one I just referred to, Saltwater 

Branch. 

Here is community development project and here is 

one in the Texas Street area. The Zeigler Boulevard culvert. 

We just awarded a contract this morning at seven-thirty, 

incidentally, when we met for conference. Alba Club Road, 

Arnold Road -- they are all over the city. Icehouse Branch, 

Claridge Road, Bolton Branch, Broad Street widening and 

drainage project. 
. 

0) Is this master plan spelled out in one document 

somewhere? ' 

A Yes. We have a brochure or folder or master drainagg 

program. We have some projects that are being done on master 

p - 

      
    

  458  



  

  

      

  

    
  

            

1000 : Cae 

drainage and some prajects being done under capital projects THE con 

and capital improvement funds and under the community develop- 

ment fumds. So, we have four major funds that we are talking MR. BLJ 

about, plus we do a lot of drainage work out of the operating 

budget through the regular public works forces. to say, 

Q What about the Three Mile Creek drainage project, you sal 

Mr. Mims? What is happening on that? to make 

A Well, I testified earlier that we had met with the what we 

orp of Engineers and because the Three Mile Creek runs into to ests 

Mobile River and that is part of the Tennessee-Tombigbee culture 

system, we are going to be able to get assistance from the have df 

Corp of Engineers and from the Federal government in the people 

improvement of this major stream that runs all the way across wanted 

the city from the western city limits all the way to the THE COU 

eastern city limits, you might say, or to the Mobile River. 

This is a major drainage system and it will be improved and said abe 

is being improved. We have dredged it on a number of occasions black == 

nd we have a regular maintenance program of Three Mile Creek Commi ss: 

nd we plan to make other improvements as we receive the The cou 

recommendations from the Corp of Engineers. black p 

THE COURT: Just pr- 

All right. Let's take a fifteen minute break. some re= 

this is 

(RECESS) MR. BLA- 

_ 459 
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in OG 4 pase = oman sinister OL 

ects THE COURT: 

velop- All right. You may proceed. 

alking MR. BLACKSHER: 

ating Before we get back to drainage, Mr. Mims, I wanted 

to say, for the record, that with reference to the remarks 

ct, you said earlier -- I mean, this sincerely, I am not trying 

to make you out a racist. I think the Court understands 

the what we are trying to show, what the Plaintiffs are trying 

into to establish, that white people who live in a different 

culture from black people who live in different meighborhoods 

ho have difficulty relating and responding to problems of black 

people and that is all I am trying to demonstrate and I 

CcrO8s wanted to make sure you understood that. 

. THE COURT: 

rer Let me make these remarks in relation to what I 

and said about the boards and what census figures show about 

.casion$ black skilled workers. I do not mean for the City 

Creek Commissioners to take from that, that they don't have any duty. 

. The courts frequently required affirmative action to recruit 

black people. So there won't be any misunderstanding, I was 

just probing the Plaintiff's position and then there were’ 

: some remarks that I indicated that I wanted to make, because 

this is my only forum. Go ahead. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

— 460.2. 

  
 



  

  
  

We were talking about the master drainage project. 

I wanted to ask you, particularly, about the Three Mile 

Creek drainage project, Mr. Mims, 

You said there were three water sheds in Mobile; 

Three Mile Creek, Dog River and one other, right? 

A The Mobile River. 

Q What is going to happen -- what kind of work are you 

drainage service for the community it serves like I saw it 

starts over in west Mobile. The complaints we have heard 

to date have been from Trinity Gardens, Crichton, right down 

on Davis Avenue where the Roger Williams project are all 

frequently flooded and what other areas? 

THE COURT: 

Just one moment. Did I leave something out that 

you wanted to comment on? 

A Well, let me say this. The area that has complained 

the most is in the vicinity of Stanton Road and Tonlours and 

in this area than any other area along Three Mile Creek since 

I have been in office. 

I know, for a fact, that water has gotten up into 

houses along the area of Shadowgay, which is just off of 

Stanton Road. 

going to do to make the Three Mile drainage project an adequate 

Shadowgay area. They have had more flooding and more complaints 

    
    461:       

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Q Is that a white community, Shadowgay? 

i A Yes. 

E Q Tonlours is a changing commmity? 

= ; A It has changed, is my understanding. 

; 3 Q It is now a majority black? 

5 A It is now changing. I don't know what the percentage 

: g would be. As I indicated earlier, this is a major pier 

ES I : or drainage easement and a great portion of the water that | 

—lequatie : 
falls in the City of Mobile, sooner or later, comes out of 

Rt Three Mile Creek up here on Three Mile Creek north of the 

docks. The Corp of Engineers, in their study, will present 

ava evidence as to certain culverts that need to be replaced or 

certain bridges that need to be replaced that might be causing 

an obstruction, things such as this. 

It is very doubtful that the Corp of Engineers wld 

BE ever recommend that Three Mile Creek be paved from one end to 

the other. You know, there is just some things you don't do. 

51ned We have had recommendations from some citizens, both white 

an and black that we, you know, pave Three Mile Creek or put it 

sda under ground or put it in a culvert and things such as this 

2ince i that are absolutely not feasible. So, we are saying that 

when the Corp of Engineers presents its recommendations to the 

te ; City and hopefully, at that time, we will get some Federal 

funding, because the Corp is involved and then we can make the 

i ie pn | 462             
 



  

  

improvements that would be necessary to provide good 

drainage. It will not necessarily mean it will be a paved 

improvement or a covered improvement or some exotic looking 

drainage system. It may still be a hundred years from now 

an open creek. The idea is to provide drainage to keep areas 

from flooding. 

Q Do I understand that you, at the present time, do 

not know for sure what you are going to do about the overall 

fhree Mile Creek drainage project. You are still waiting 

on something from the Corp? | 

A As far as Three Mile Creek itself is concerned, 

we are making improvements to various tributaries going into 

Three Mile Creek like the big Stickney, the little Stickney, 

the Trinity Gardens Drainage, much of it will go into Three 

Mile Creek. : 

Q What are you doing in Trinity Gardens right now? 

A ; That is included in the community development 

monies that will be, I am sure, presented later in this trial 

by some of our staff people. The whole program will be 

presented, but we have plans to try to drain Trinity Gardens. 

So we can get on with the paving of the streets like we wanted 

to do these low many years. 

Q Those are still in the planning stage, the drainage 

projects for Trinity Gardens? 

          463 

  

  
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A © Well, I consider anything in the planning stage 

until you start turning the earth. But we do have definite 

plans and, as I said, these will be presented by technical 

people and members of our staff later on in this trial, I 

am sure. 

Q Can you give the residents of Trinity Gardens and 

Crichton some word about whet the drainage problems will be 

solved for their neighborhood or will be improved? 

A Well, of course, we have been in the process of 

making improvements all along. All improvements are not 

necessarily from capital expenditures. Many improvements are 

made from a maintenance standpoint and we have, from time to 

time, made corrections here and yonder with our local public 

works crews. For someone to say that we have not improved 

the drainage in Crichton and Trinity Gardens I think would 

be a misstatement. It has been improved. 

The first time I went to Trinity Gardens you almost 

had to fly over the area, to be frank with you. It is 

so low. We have made improvements. 

We have not reached utopia there, but we do have 

definite concrete plans and hopefully some of this work will 

be put under contract in the very near future. 

As I said, I do not have the community development 

program before me. Neither do I have the master drainage 

          —- 

464°  



  

  

  

  
    

program, but all of this has been programmed. 

Q Will the community development program that will 

have a time table in it that will answer my question? 

A ‘Yes. With appropriate maps and everything. 

Q Have you calculated and will we be presented 

evidence on how much money has been spent by the City of 

Mobile on the Three Mile Creek drainage project and the other 

drainage projects. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Mr. Blacksher, the answer to that question is that 

we have never asked anybody to compile an itemization of 

expenditures related directly to Three Mile Creek, but we will 

have the staff people to give you the details about what is 

projected for it. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

The reason I anked Mr. Mims, of course, is the 

little we have to go on -- this October, 1973 newspaper 

article that indicates that the public works department, which 

is your area, was allocated some eight hundred and ninety- 

eight thousand dollars for Three Mile Creek area drainage 

programs; four hundred and sixty-two thousand dollars for 

downtown area drainage program and some nine hundred and 

Sg 

}   
forty-nine thousand for the Dog River area drainage program. 

It is things like this that have given rise to the 

        465 

  

  

  
  

  

   



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question, in our minds, about where most of the money is being 

spent. Do you see the Dog River project or the Dog River 

drainage problems as being more difficult to solve or warranting 

more expenditures of money than the Three Mile Creek project? 

A Well, the reason that some of these projects moved 

ahead faster than others was because some of the plans were 

more complete, at that time, Now, I don't have that article     in front of me, but we run into all kinds of problems as 

you start planning and designing, not only drainage projects, 

but road projects or anything else. 

You run into rights-of-way problems. You run #nto 

things that sometimes are beyond your control and so if you 

have "x" number of millions of dollars allocated for each 

year's program you go ahead with the projects as you have,   you might say on the shelf, the design and everything you havd 

on the shelf, and you go ahead with it. 

Now, in that particular instance, apparently the 

plans by the Volkert Company, now, they handle the Dog River 

drainage easement or watershed. Apparently those plans were 

ready to roll and so we proceeded. That does, not mean that 

the Three Mile Creek watershed is taking any lesser priority. 

It may mean that converse, who is the engineer on that water- 

shed, may not have had their plans ready or there might have 

been easement problems. 

      466  



  

  

  

        

    

        
  

  

1008 

i 
We find a lot of people are quick to complain, but i prepare 

when you go out to try to get an inch of their land to get aterst 

the improvements on and then you have to take them to Court, i So, tha 

too. : THE COU 

Q Have you been to Court over the Three Mile drainage i 

project? ¢ develop 

A I canndt say specifically, but I do know on many, i A 

many of these projects we have problems after we have worked THE COU. 

hard to try to get the money allocated and after we have the ; 

plans prepared and after we have the light on green and ready : A 

to go and then we run head in to property owners who do not certain! 

want to co-operate, as far as the right-of-way is concerned. ° commiss: 

That is a problem not only in black areas, but in white areas i Mile Cre 

in every area of the commmity. | | | Jlour city 

Q You don't know whether they have more problems with § prbyeats 

that in the Three Mile Creek area than the Dog River area? . 

A: No. I can't answer that, between 

Q Do you know specifically why the Dog'River plans : of work 

were advanced more quickly than the Three Mile Creek plans? sure. 

A I just tried to explain that. We have three MR. BLAC 

engineers, Converse on Three Mile Creek, Pollyengineering on 

the dewntown river system and David Volkert and Associates direct t 

on the Dog River project or Suen and all three of these million . 

engineering companies are studying their watersheds and their twenty-s: 

46'7              



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prepared plans on these various projects related to those 

watersheds and some plans are more advanced than others. 

So, that is the best I can answer that question. 

THE COURT: 

I take it your answer to be the Dog River plans were 

developed earlier than the Three Mile Creek plans? 

A I would say so, your Honor. 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

A Let me say, for the record, if I may, that there 

certainly has been no reason on the part of the publie works 

commissioner or the city commission to hold back on Three 

Mile Creek watershed, because it does affect a huge area of 

our city and it is our desire to try to get all of these 

projects done as quickly as possible. 

I wish that I could snap my finger and do all of them 

between now and the first day of August, but it is just a lot 

of work involved as our people will try to show you, I am 

sure, 

MR. BLACKSHER: | 

While we were talking about Trinity Gardens in the 

direct testimony, you recall the point being made that a 

million dollars being spent in the Trinity Garden area and 

twenty-seven thousand dollars in collected taxes and I want 

3 

      468:      



  

  

    

to clarify this point, however, Do property taxes provide 

a very large share of the City of Mobile revenue income from 

its citizens? 

A "Not necessarily, no, 

Q In fact, most of the revenues of the City of 

Mobile comes from other kinds of taxes; isn't that correct? 

A | Well, sales tax would be our main source of revenue} 

Q And, of course, there is no way for you to know 

how much of that was attributed by residents of Trinity 

Gardens? 

A Well, I don't think anyone, even the best of 

experts, could tell you exactly how much soney came out of 

Trinity Gardens. 

Q I agree with that. with respect to street paving, 

now, we have these -- this information that was turned over 

to us by your people, a Mr. Chapman, which is Exhibit 74 and 

whioh we have summarized in Exhibit 75 and when we intro- 

duced it, Mr. Arendall made the point that a number of some of 

the streets are paved by private developers and I think you 

re-affirmed that on your direct testimony. 

Have you sorted out the number or miles of streets 

that were paved by private developers as opposed to by those 

that were paved by the City, of Mobile? 

A No. I have not and I have not seen your Exhibit. 

1010 

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de i MR. ARENDALL: 

from i Mr. Blacksher, we expect to put Mr. Summerall on 

| who knows whatever there is to know about that. He is the 

! paving man. 

; MR. BLACKSHER: 

ct? ! You did testify about resurfacing, Mr. Mims, didn't 
venue : you? I think you said resurfacing is not assessed to the 

Ww property owners? 

A Resurfacing is out of the general fund budget. 

Q This Exhibit by Mr. Chapman says, at the bottom, 
that the information contained herein includes the miles of 

of gutters, paving and also includes resurfacing of streets that! 

was done by the city both before and after 1970, but you are 
ing, not familiar with this Exhibit and you haven't apprised yours 1f 
ver of exactly how many miles have been developed. repaved or 

and r resurfaced in the various neighborhoods? 

- | A Well, I am not familiar with your Exhibit. I say 
ome of 3 emphatically we do not charge for resurfacing. 

you Now, on a street like Lincoln Street, which was 

a pars surfaced paved street, in my opinion, testimony previous 

eets | in this Court indicated that that person did not think it 

hose 1 was paved, but it was paved, as far as I am concerned. 

Now, we are going out aid tearing up a paved street 
it. and we are putting down underground drainage and curb and 

ATT   
 



        

  

gutters and that is an assessment program. If we go down 

St. Joseph here on Dauphin Street or Gill Road or Dogwood 

Lane or whatever it might be, we resurface the street at no 

cost whatsoever to the property owners. It comes out of the 

general fund, our operating budget of the City of Mobile or 

capital outlay from the capital budget for the purpose of 

re-surfacing. There is no assessment. 

I don't know what Mr. Chapman has said there. I 

haven't seen that. If he said we are charing for re-surfacing 

he is in error. 

Q Why couldn't you re-surface the Lincoln Street? 

A Well, sir, I have tried to say all the time that 

Lincoln Street was a surfaced street. It had a hard surface. 

It was a paved street and .......... 

Q 1 am asking 1f it was paved why couldn't you just 

re-surface it? 

At Because there were a drainage problem. This was 

a complaint that people had built down on the lower side of 

the street and I am very familiar with Lincoln Street. I 

have been there many times. On the north side of the 

street the houses were built in many cases lower than the 

crown of the paved Lincoln Street. Therefore, the water would 

po off of Lincoln Street down into the yards and under the 

houses and, in one case, the person who was complaining had 

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a big long limousine type of an automobile and we suggested 

we put a curb up there or berm to keep the water from going 

into his yard and that would affect him from getting in and 

out of his driveway. When they came to the place where they 

were willing to pay part of the construction costs of what 

you might say is a new street and that is what is going to be 

when they finish, then we proceeded with the project. So, I 

am sure, over a period of years, Lincoln Street was re- 

surfaced. 

In fact, I am positive that Lincoln had a new 

surface put on it, from time to time, over the years. 

Q Concerning this assessment question, how is it 

that you know until recently the residents weren't willing 

to bear the assessment? 

A Well, sir, I had met with a Reverand Smith on many 

occasions. In fact, in 1965, prior to my first election, I 

sat on Reverand Smith's porch and also he has indicated to 

the contrary, but I promised him I would look into it and 

I did look into it and I had looked into it a number of times 

and had talked to Reverand Smith on a number of occasions and 

Q And Reverand Smith told you that people would not 

bear the assessment? 
|] 

A Reverand Smith, to the best of my recollection, forever 

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made demands. Number one, that he was a taxpayer, which I 

understood quite well; and, number two, the City ought to 

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come out there and do something about his problem and my & be will 

contention was that we ought to be doing something about the 4 THE COU" 

dirt streets and the unimproved areas of the city first and : 

then, as money and resources were available and as people 1 A 

wanted to participate, then try to correct some of these other THE COUN 

  

problems of long standing and so it was not until about a year 

ago or whatever dates the documents show that they agreed to 

pay an assessment on Lincoln Street and it was, at that time, 

that the City Commission moved forward with the project 

  

taking two-thirds of the money out of the City treasury and 

one-third of the money will come back from the project. Over 

  
a ten year period, we will get one-third of it back from the E necessit 

property owners. 4 A 

It was not until they expressed a desire to share E you are 

in the cost of it that we went ahead with the project. 4 stood th 

Q So the answer to my question was no? 4 I am sur 

A Well, I don't know what the anentich was now. 4 THE COUR 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

  

Would you read it back? 1 of commos 

THE COURT: El atl to + 

He wanted to know back in the beginning whether or It A 

not he refutes or the property owners refused to be assessed. ¥ understar 

  
  

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A Your Honor, they did not indicate that they would 

be willing to pay. 

THE COURT: 

Did they indicate that they wouldn't? 

A That they would not pay? 

THE COURT: 

Yes. 

A They did not indicate that they would pay. It was 

more a demand that we come out and do something, because he 

was a taxpayer and the most vocal one was Reverand Smith. 

THE COURT: 

In those discussions, did you inform them of the 

necessity of property assessments? 

A I could not say, under oath, your Honor, that look 

you are going to have pay so much a foot, but it was under- 

stood that everyone paid an assessment on street improvements 

I am sure that was during our comments. 

THE COURT: 

When you say everybody understood, is that a matter 

of common knowledge or from your discussions, he could not 

fail to understand it? 

A I think from our discussions he couldn't fail to 

understand it. Somebody had to pay for it. 

» 

      474  



1016 
  

  

THE COURT: 

No, no. Somebody having to pay it and whether a 

citizen has to pay it are two different things. 

him there was a property assessment? 

A Your Honor, I couldn't specifically say that I told 

him he had to pay so much. I thought it was specifically 

enderatood that everybody had to pay. 

THE COURT: 

Go ahead, Mr. Blacksher. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Mr. Mims, would you agree that black citizens in 

Mobile do have particular rised interests peculiar to them? 

A : No. I could not say that they have particularized 

interests. The whole comunity has interests. 

Q ~~ + Well, since you have your book, for Christ and 

Country before you, the kind of thing I am talking about is 

discussed on pages sixty-seven and sixty-eight. 

to read these sections, if the Court will permit. 

THE COURT: | 

Go ahead. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

"We can no longer live in the days of our forefathers. 

Negroes no longer live down the lane and pick cotton. The 

black man has been thrust into society. It matters not Whether 

Did you tell 

I would like 

  
          475 

  

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; we like this fact. There is no escape. This problem must 
er a v be faced." 

ou tell i Then over on the next page -- I am skipping, but 
a you can fill me in any tine you feel like there is something 

I told : you want heard. '"Reasonable white men must alse realize the 
lly predicament of the blacks. Since the 1954 Civil Rights 

decision, the American negroe has made much progress, and 

many white men have changed their atitudes toward the race 
issue. However, many thousands of negroes find themselves 
totally unprepared: to assume their places of responsibilities 

8 in in society, 

them? 
Reasonable white men must realize that the negroe 

irized needs training and education, and that in many cases he needs 
to be advanced culturally. Reasonable white men must patiently 

d go through this period of adjustment," 

it is That is the kind of thing I am talking about 
d like Mr. Mims. Don't you agree that those kind of interests are 

particular to black citizens of Mobile? 

A Well, I think the whole community has needs and 
what I was trying to do in this chapter of my book was to show 
that reasonable white men and reasonable black men and reason! 

efathers. able Americans could work out the problems that we have and 
The of course, you have to take into consideration that this 
whether book was published in the fall of 1969 right on the heels of 

_ 476                



  

  

  

  

all of the racial trouble that we had had in this country. 

Q Well, now, concerning reasonable men, and let me 

ark you, your views on this part at tha bottom of page 

sixty-eight, ‘will you say that the "negroes also must be 

reasonable. They will have to realize that the events of 

a hundred years cannot be changed in the snap of a finger. 

The nilivant negroes want everything now. This is impossible, 

The businessman starts small and grows. The farmer plants 

a seed and cultivates before he gets a harvest. And it is 

my firm conviction that the shouts and demands of the negroe 

that the position of the negro race as a whole be changed now; 

will never get the job done, If those who: shout "now" would 

spend half their energy trying to help the negro advance, they 

would accomplish far more." 

Do you still feel that way about the so called 

negro problem? 

A No, because you have a period of what, seven years 

now, of basically harmony among the races in our community 

and, at that time, as I said a moment ago, this was right on 

the heels of the marches, right at the time where there was a 

group, incidentally, called NOW when there were burnings and 

there were threatenings and all kinds of things going on and 

turmoil in the community and people were demanding and shoutirn 

and marching on City Hall and marching on the city audiotoriun 

12 

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1 1019 

ry. and Aad demonstrations in the streets. What I am trying to 
. me point out in this particular chapter of this book that was 

published in 1969 was that reasonable white men and reason- 
® able black men are going to have to sit down and white men 
of are going to have to realize that there is a responsibility 
er. at hand and the black People are going to have to realize 
ssible| that they have responsibility also. 

nts So, my main point here was to Prove as reasonable 
is people set down they could work these things out. Of course, | 

egroe there are other things that you skipped over. You skipped 
ed now over sections of this chapter that -- all of it is very 
would meaningful. For instance, you can read some of the things. 
e, the] I will not go ineo it. 

Q Let me ask you one more question on this what is 
d reasonable. I would like to read you a statement Rade by 

a prominent black politician and ask you if this is reasonable. 
years "The wisest among my race understand that the 
ity £ agitation of questions of social equality is the extremest 
ht on : folley, and that progress in the enjoyment of all the 
was a F privileges that will come to us must be the result of severe 

s and ] and constant struggle rather than of arifificial forcing. 
a and It is important and right that all Privileges of the law be 
shouting | ours, but it is vastly more important that we be prepared for 
ytorium 4 the exercises of these privileges. The apportunity to earn a 

| Tas 1              



1020 
  

    

dollar in a factory just now is worth infinitely more than 

the opportunity to spend a dollar in an opera house." 

Would you say that is a reasonable attitude for 

i a black politician to take? 

A I would say that is reasonable. I would have to 

digest that sentence by sentence. 

Q ~ Let me point out that this statement was made by 

Booker T. Washington, September 18, 1895 at the Atlanta 

Cotton States and International Exposition and, of course, 

what I have reference to is that your point about the things 

that can't be changed in a snap of a finger, that occurred 

over a hundred years ago. That was four generations ago, 

Mr. Mims, 

A Well, sir. I can't help what my father did or what 

my grandfather did. In 1965 I saw a great need in this 

community for some leadership and I was very happy in 

business, but I saw a great need for service and I offered 

myself as a candidate for the Mobile City Commission and for 

eleven years my sincere desire has been to meet the needs 

of this entire community,both black and white, and I have 

devoted eleven years of my life to this task and the record 

is there and you can search it from 1965 on, on October 4th, 

until this day, and if you would be reasonable you would say 

that Lambert Mims has tried to meet the needs of this community. 

        479     
  

  

  

  

  

  

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Q Let me ask you, then, sir, the same question I 

asked Commissioner Dayle about City ordinances for fair or 

equal employment opportunity, for open housing, for public 

accomadation, and the cross burnings legislation. Would you 

be in favor of city ordinances on those issues? 

A Well, on some of those matters they are covered by 

federal laws and regulations that would supersede anything 

we do anyway. So, it would be a waste of time and effort oy 

paper for the city to pass an ordinance about open housing. 

I think people should live wherever their economic situation 

will permit them to live. 

If you can afford a forty thousand dollar home you 

ought to be able to buy a forty thousand dollar home wherever. 

it is. If you can't afford but a twenty thousand, well, a lot 

of people can't afford but a twenty thousand. I am not 

opposed to people living where their economic situation will 

allow them to live. 

I see no need for a city ordinance for that. I 

think, as an American citizen, you have that right. 

On the cross burnings, I deplore rons burnings. I 

do not condone that in any shape, form or fashion. I brought 

the two reverands who wrote me, Reverand Stokes and McCree and 

sent copies to everybody and his brother and said silence 

might mean that you condone or something like this. I wrote 
    

        _ 480 -   
 



1022 
  

  

those bretheren back -- and I think Mr. Arendall has a copy 

of a letter and told them, "You men know me better than to say 

that I condone such things as this." What a person does on 

his personal property, as long as he complies with the Board 

of Health regulations and the fire codes and what not, I don't 

think I ought to get involved in telling him what he is doing 

on his property. If he wanted to fly a red flag on his propexty, 

then that is his business. 

Now, I would have no reason to oppose an ordinance 

that would make it a fine or make it an offense against the 

city to burn a cross on public property, on the right-of-ways. 

I imagine that that would be already included in one of 

our ordinances. If it is not, I certainly would not oppose 

an ordinance that would make that a” offense against the 

city. : 

Q Are you going to investigate whether or not it is 

already on the books? If not, are you going to propose such 

an ordinance? 

A I would be happy to propose such an ordinance. I, 

you know, have not had reason, up to this point, to pursue it, 

but I think it should be an offense against the city to pry 

anything on the City's right-of-way, crosses, boxes or trash. 

In fact, I wish some people would quit burning their trash 

in the curbs or gutters. Some people burn that and push it 

        481 
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into tl 

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thirty- 

City Co 

was the 

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A 

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1023 
  

  

  

into the storm drains and that helps with our drainage 

problems. 

Q Just a couple of other points, Mr. Mims. 

One last point about something you said in your 

book. You mentioned, I think, in there that it cost you 

thirty-five thousand dollars in your first campaign for 

City Commission. I think that is on page seventeen. That 

was the first indication I have had of firm evidence in 

support of what has already been said here about what it migh 

cost to run a City Commission campaign? 

A Well, : believe I said we actually spent more than 

thirty-five thousand dollars and although this was a lot of 

money for a political novice to raise, it was probably a smal 

amount as to probably what some people were spending. In fac 

the opposition, at that time, perhaps Spent ...... 0. 

Q Nineteen sixty-five? 

A Yes. The opposition, perhaps, spent far more than 

of the Democratic committee, at that time, and so was the 

son of a former mayor who was a well known man and here I am 

a farm boy from Monroe County came down to Mobile and, you 

know, and had an opportunity to run for City Commissioner and 

only in a free country like America could a guy come out of 

the cotton patch to Mobile and get elected. 

that, because an incumbent was runnimg and so was the Shalom 

      482      



1024 
  

It was because of hard work and shoe leather and 

getting people. to help you and then getting people to help 

you I was able to beat all of the odds, according to all of 

the political prognosticators, You know, this guy, Lambert 

Mims, who is he? I had God on my side. I feel he led me 

into the field of politics and I feel he put me where I am 

today : 

Q Yes, sir. So you would say, at the present time, 

it would probably cost more than thirty-five thousand dollars 

to run a successful campaign on the City Commission? 

A I wouldn't be surprised what with advertising and 

media costs that it would be far more than that, 

Q Mr, Mims, isn't it true that you are responsible 

for Senator Perloff blocking this Roberts bill that would 

change the form of government? 

A That has been rumoured in the media, but that is 

not «true, 

Q You haven't spoken to Meyer Mitchell about it, 

have you? 

A I speak to Meyer Mitchell about many: things, but I 

have not spoken to Mr. Ferloff about it. 

Q I asked you if you had spoken to Mr. Mitehell about 

this bill? 

A Mr. Mitchell and I have discussed the form of govern- 

        40539   
  

  

  
  

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ment in Mobile on many occasions, In fact, Mr, Mitchell is 

a very strong proponent of the commission form of government. 

He operates in many cities and he says this is the strongest 

form of government. 

Q You are also a strong proponent of the comalssion 

form of government? 

A I believe with all of my soul it is the most 

responsive form of government that the people of Mobile could 

have. I do not know how any mayor, any nine councilmen or 

nine commissioners or nine aldernmen could be any more 

responsive than this City Commission is being, at this time. 

My policy is to try to treat everybody with a 

coubreoty-varly dnd to move with a quick response and to have 

a thorough follow through and I attribute that to my success 

and the fact that I have been re-elected three times to this 

office that I am privileged to hold. 

I think we are responsive and some of these people 

that have testified in this trial that they wanted this and 

they needed that and 80 help me, many of these people have 

never crossed my threshhold into the office of tha public 

works commissioner of this city. 

Q Mr. Mims, do you disagree with the other people that 

have testified that, in their opinion, that a black person 

could not be elected in a city wide race for the City 
          484  



  

Comisaton? 

A I don't necessarily subscribe to those feelings. 

People said a country boy from Monroe Cétmty couldn't get 

elected * the Mobile City Commission because of the nature 

of the politics in Mobile, but we proved them wrong. 

a person who is qualified, number one, a person who is willing 

and a person who is willing to put forth an effort, the 

effort it takes and a number of things to win an ‘election. 

It takes a willing hard working candidate and he must be 

qualified and it takes people to help. 

You can't do-it by yourself and it takes some money 

and you have to go out here and not be bashful and ask Suowts 

to contribute to your campaign. 

Q Are you saying all things being equal that a black 

candidate would have as much chance to win, at large, as a 

white candidate? 

A * 1 think the right black candidate that would 

present himself as an American citizen qualified to hold 

whatever office he is seeking would have a chance to be 

elected in Mobile, Alabama. 

Q My question was, the same chance as an equally 

qualified white candidate? 

A Well, yes. I think a black person who presented 

himself as a businessman or as a qualified person who got 

I think 

  
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          . 485.        



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¢ | that the black candidate would have as good a chance as a 

Il this commmity who could run for any office and stand as good 

  

  

out and worked and sold himself on the fact that he was 

to any office if he presented himself or herself, not as a 

colored person, not as a black person, not against white 

people, not for white people, but to go out and present 

themselves on the fact that they are qualified and they were 

sincerely interested in serving this commmity. That is what 

the people want, somebody sincerely interested, not who is 

the whitest or I am the blackest or I am the richest or 

the poorest. They want somebody who is dedicated or sincere 

in their efforts. 

Q Can you point to any evidence that would support 

white candidate, .a2ll other things being equal? 

A I am saying that there are some black people in 

a chance of being elected as I stood in 1965 when I ran for 

office the first time, probably better. 

Q What evidence do you have to support that opinion? 

THE COURT: 

Why don't we go onto something else? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

this opinion you are expressing and, I take it you are saying 

qualified, I believe he would stand a chance of getting elected 

Yes, sir. So, you are not in favor of City government 
  

  
_ 486       - 

 



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baing elected cut of single member districts? 

A I stated that I was a firm believer that the 

Mobile City Cormission or the Commission form of government 

for now sixty-five years has responded and is responding 

more and has responded more in the last decade than ever 

before to the needs of this commmity and the record proves 

it. 

MR, BLACKSHER: 

I have no further questions, your Honor, 

THE COURT: 

Mr. Arendall? 

  

PFDIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MR. ARENDALL: 

Q : Mr. Mims, may we have your book that there has been 

20 much talk about? I think we had better offer it all in 

evidence. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

I didn't offer mine, your Honor. It was 

Menefee's and he »nuldn't let me offer it. § 

MR. ARENDALL: 

I offer, in evidence, for Christ and Country. 

THE COURT: 

Thank goodness it is a little book. 

        . 487   
  

  

  

MR. AR] 

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A 

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1029 
  

(Defendant's Exhibit number 86 received 

and marked, in evidence) 

ronment ; | MR. ARENDALL: 

Ing Q Mr. Mims, I overlooked asking you on direct 

examination about a couple of things that I would like to 

roves NM ask you about very briefly. 

ge Would you state generally what the current policy of 

the City of Mobile is with reference to garbage collection? 

A We collect refuse. We call it our solid waste 

i collection division. That division collects refuse from about 

seventy thousand residences, twice per week, and we furnish 

trash pick up with another division once a week. 

= Q Is that policy applied equally over both white and 

black areas? 

  

as Dosa i A Absolutely. : 

1 in 3 Q What is the City's policy with reference to street 

cleaning? 

A Our city is divided into -- if I am not mistaken, 

5 about fourteen different areas and we have a street sweeper 

assigned to each area and the streets in thosé particular areas 

are swept on a regular basis. | 

: Each piece of equipment and each operator has an 

area assigned and these areas are assigned without regard to   
race or color or community or any other thing. 

ee TIE 488 
          
 



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Q All right. Now, we have had an awfully lot of talk 

I would like to ask you a few more questions. 

TIE COURT: 

If you will give the number when you refer to a 

board. 

MR, ARENDALL: 

Judge, I propose, in an effort tao sava time, to go 

ahead and introduce such material as we have on edeh of these 

boards and commissions as to which Mr, Blacksher has asked 

any questions. I don't know any better way to do it. 

What basically we have, as to each, is a statement 

of members and a copy of the applicable ordinance and I don't 

propose to ask any questions about most of these. But they 

have not been marked, because we had not contemplated that it 

might be desirable. to put them in. I suppose the best thing 

for pre tO do ...0. 

THE COURT: : 

I really think it would be helpful to make it part 

of the Exhibit 64 and then it will be altogether and can be 

considered together. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

I certainly have no objection, your Honor. It was 

just a huge volume of material. 

about commissions, boards and so forth. For about ten minutes, 

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THE COURT: 

Let's make it part of Plaintiff's 64. . 

MR. ARENDALL: 

May I ask a few questions and then give them to 

Mr. O'Connor? 

THE COURT: 

Surely. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Now, I have not got, in this bundle of them, I have 

only selected those that I understood Mr, Blacksher asked 

questions about. 

THE COURT: 

I understood that. 

MR, ARENDALL: 

Mr. Mims, I notice that on the board of adjustment, 

one of the members is Dr. R. W. Galliard. 

Do you consider him ready, able and willing to 

speak on behalf of black interests and the N.A,A.C.P.? 

A Yes, I do. 

Q On the audiotorium board, let me run these names 
‘ 

out and I wish you would stop me when I get to a black, if 

you would? Charles Bedsole, William Ladner, Joseph Baker, 

Robert Brazier. 

A He is black. 

| 

  
          430 

 



  

Thomas J, Gengo; Mrs. W. L. Russell? Q 

A She is black. 

Q John H. Castle; Taylor Hodge? 

A | He is black. 

Q Pr. W. A. Ritchie; Mrs, Shepherd Jerome; Thomas 

Bryant, Jr.; Richard A. Rowan, 

| Do you consider the blacks who are on there, such 

as Mr. Taylor Hodge and others are fully capable of speaking 

up for the black interests? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Are those presently on the audiotorium board? 

MR, ARENDALL: 

I am told by Mr, Greenough that they are, 

The center city development authority is one of 

the authorities that does not appear to have any blacks on 

it, but I would like for you to identify, for me, Mr. James 

Van.Antwerp, Jr.? Is he not a member of a family that owns 

a great deal of downtown real estate? 

A He is, 

Q Mr. Ken L. Lott is president of the Merchants 

National Bank, which also owns downtown real estate? 

A He is. 

Q Who is Mr. Don Henry? 

A He 1s manager of Gayfer's downtown store. 

        491   
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an 

nes 

ns 

  
  

  

1037 
  

Frank Schmidt; Gerald E, Williamson and Ted Hackney, secretary 

of the chamber of commerce. 

Do you regard each of these gentlemen to be out- 

standing business men in the city of Mobile? 

A All of these men are outstanding business men. 

Q All right. Now, until the recent formation of a   bank that I believe is called the Commercial Bank -- 

| Commonwealth Bank, a minority black financed and organized | 
| 

institution, was there such a thing as a minority bank in 

Mobile? | 

A Not to my knowledge. 

Q I will ask you if it is a fact that a white woman | 

is president of that bank? 

A Yes. She is. 

Q The members or the bankers on this committee are 

the chief executive officers of the four largest banks in the 

City, are they not? 

A That is correct, 

Q There has been some talk here, Mr, Mims, about the 

library. Does the Mobile Public Library oéfer its services 

or facilities to all citizens of whatever color? 

A Yes, it does.   Q By virtue of change in housing patterns, as a matter 

| 
of fact, the main building is now in a black or certainly highly 

| 
      492 |



  

  

  
  

      

1038 |E 

¢ Q 
integrated area, is it not? 1 A 

MR. BLACKSHER: E Q 

I object, your Honor, There is no evidence that it ; A 

is and I would disagree, L 2 
THE COURT: ¥ 24a sea 

I will let him give an opinion. a black 

MR. ARENDALL: : 

Maybe it isn't. I will ask you, do you consider ] Langham. 

the location in a black or white part of Mobile? 3 A 

A In my opinion it is a mixed area and predominantly A Q 

black, ; : E James C. 

Q Are you familiar with the location of the various | 3 
i 

branches of the library? E are whit 

A Yes. E A 

Q Would you identify each and state where each is 4 Q 

located and indicate whether the area is predominantly black | willing 

or vhite? § any, bla 

A Well, we have a very fine branch in Toulminville Commi shi 

that is predominantly black. We have a branch on Davis : A 

Avenue that is predominantly black. Dauphin Island Parkway, { Q 

down in the area where I live, that is about Ewenty percent : fire fig 

black, I would say, at South Brookley. We have a branch in J the memls 

Cottage Hill. Black people live all around the Cottage Hill 

library. 

_ 4383        



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1039 
  

| willing to speak for whatever particularized interests, if 

any, blacks may have in regard to the Mobile Planning   
  

Q That is a predominantly white area? 

A That's right, and there is a branch in Springhill. 

Q That is the Moorer Branch? 

A Yes. 

Q Mobile Planning Commission, the membership is, 

and again, I would like for you to interrupt me when I get tq 

a black member. 

John L. Blacksher; Joseph M. Courtney; George L. 

Langham, 

A He is black. 

Q Robert H. Massey; E. Allen Sullivan, Jr.; and 

James C. Van Antwerp. 

Now, with the exception of Mr. Langhan, all of thes 

are white, are they not? 

A Yes. 

Q Do you regard Mr. Langham as being ready, able and 

Commission matters? - 

A I do. 

Q Mr. Blacksher got after you about the policemen and 

fire fighters' pension and relief fund board and let me read 

the membership of this to you. 

Dwayne Luce, is vice chairman of the board of the 

        
  

    434    



  

  

    

adjacent to Williamson High School that there was testimony 

about yesterday. 

THE COURT: 

"Is that predominantly black or mixed? 

A I would say predominantly black. 

Q Ward thirty-two, Trinity Gardens? 

A Up here, 

Q All right, Mr. Greenough,if you would get back on 

the stand for a minute, please, 

I would like an expression from you as to whether 

you consider the parks and recreation program of Mobile 

is operated in a fair gr unfair amount insofar as blacks and 

black areas are concerned? | 

A Well, I would have to say that on that balance we 

probably have committed a larger proportion of our resources 

to parks and recreation to the black population than we do 

to the population of the City generally. I think that is 

fairly obvious if you look over the dispersion of the parks 

and the major recreation centers. 

One thing that is a burden to us in Mobile, we 

operate a pre-school program, because the Alabama Legislature 

has not seen fit to provide one for the citizens of the state 

in the public sector and we recognize that this is a need. 

So, we provide one through the city recreation department 

1084 

          498.   
  

  

      

  

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1085 
  

  

ony which consumes roughly fifty percent of our staff resources, 

We would like to be able to devote those resources to other 

recreation programs, but until the legislature sees fit 

to act in that regard, we will have to continue. 

I think that we are very fair, try to be, at any 

rate. We recognize that particularly in parks and leisure 

activity, it is basically voluntary, particularly when you 

ck on are dealing with people's children, There is probably more 

controversy there among people than other normal business 

aspects of life, but on that balance, I would have to say 
ther 

that we are very fair. 

Q You refer to pre-school programs. Precisely what 
8 and 

is that, for what age children does that attend to? 

A It varies, but generally speaking it is somewhere 
2 we 

between the age of four and six and seven, depending on the 
1Irces 

particular program and the particular location. It is sort 
do 

of like kindergarden. 
8 

We don't have licensed teachers. So, we are not 
rks 

technically giving classroom instruction, but we do teach the 

youngsters how to get along with one another'and getting 

away from their parents at an early age. 
ature 

THE COURT: 
state 

You made some statement that I missed a few 
i. 

moments ago. I thought you made some statement with reference 

8% 
              
 



  

  

    

   
to the amount of revenue with reference to the races? 

A Yes, sir. I said I would have to say that on net 

balance we spend probably a higher proportion of our 

resources on parks and recreation for the black population 

than the black population represents as a proportion of the 

general population. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

‘Are all of your facilities integrated? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Is your pre-school program integrated? 

A Yes, it is. 

Q Mr. Greenough, you have been a commissioner now 

for what, three years? 

A Two and-a-half, almost three years. 

Q Do you consider you have been responsive to the 

needs of all citizens, both black and white, to the best of 

your ability? 

A I certainly hope that I have, yes. 

| MR. ARENDALL: 

No further questions, 

CROSS EXAMINATION 
  

BY MR, STILL: 

Q Mr, Greenough, are you in favor of the continuation 

  

  

   
           

     
      

     

       

        

       
     
    

   

   
     
   
    
     
          
      

  

497 

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A 

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- the 

he 

tt of 

mation 

  

     

  

uN Well, I think I would -- I know my attitude and 

    

   

  

   

   

  

    

  

    

the adoption by the City of Mobile of an equal opportunity 

   job ordinance which would apply to businesses which were 

   smaller than fifteen members? 
   

   I think it is fair to attribute to my fellow commissioners 

that our attitude is performance rather than promises or   ordinances unless they are enforceable and meaningful. There 

is not any point in having a great bunch of clamor and 

   discussion that is not going to produce anything. 

   We provide, in all of our contracts and require 

of people that do business with the city government, equal 

     employment regulations and so forth, 
   

Q Does the city make any effort: to make sure that 

   is enforced? 
   

A Yes, we do. We don't have a particular enforcement 

division, however, it is required of our staff people to 

   review these things just as the prevailing wage rate is 

   involved in most of our contracts and things of that nature. 
   

Q All right. But do I understand you correctly 

that you oppose the adoption of an equal employment 

   opportunity ordinance because it would be unenforceable? 

    

A I didn't say I opposed it. If we vigorously 

   proposed it, it would harm blacks, particularly in the 

   CETA program. 

        
  

498:          



  

  

  

  

Q I am talking about private programs in the City 

of MObile, 

A We don't run private employment in the City of 

Mobile, | 

Q If you adopted an ordinance regulating private 

employment to provide that it had ‘to be on a fair basis, 

equal employment opportunity, are you for or against such 

an ordinance? 

A : Well, I don't think that I can answer the 

question put that way. Let me respond this way, I think 

that our businesses in our nation have enough regulations 

now and just because you pursue a single oHEBOaR goal you 

can pursue it to the point that it 1s counter productive 

and I think that is what results in what you suggest, 

in my opinion. It is a matter of judgment, I suppoRe. 

Q Would you favor the adoption of an equal 

oppbrtunity housing ordinance of any sort? 

A I think that the laws of the United States are 

sufficient to pursue that goal. What I am trying to say to 

you is I don't see where anything of substance or anything 

meaningful, in our community, would be gained by going 

through such a process, 

Q Now, have you made any sort of an analysis, 

either as a City Commissioner or at the time you were with 

  
  

perce: 

begin. 

and r 

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Q 

vote 

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1128 
  

  
  

Q The difference then being economic level of the 

group shown on the second page of this graph is higher than 

on the first page; is that correct? 

A Yes. 

Q Would you comment on that? 

A Well, again, we have the same phenomena. This is 

the data that appears on one twenty of my desertation, again 

with 1973 added. 

Roughly, the same in 1953 we had a rather low 

percentage difference between the two racial groups and it 

begins to increase in '57 and, in the 1950's it really peaks 

and really so in 1965 and in 1973 dropping down almost to 

the 1953 level. 

Q Would seu be seated again, please? 

Dr. Voyles, Exhibit 28 reflects the ward by ward 

vote Gr each of the candidates in the 1973 election. I 

will ask you if the opinions that you have expressed are 

  

  
supported in any respect by the returns there for the blacks | 

who ran? 

A Well, I think it is supported tathat well by the 

returns for the blacks in that particular election. 

Q Did black voters support white candidates over 

those in their own race in that campaign, in that election? 

A For the most part, yes, they did. 
  

       



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that Mr, Bailey's mean in these black wards was forty-three 

point three three percent of the vote in the first election 

and Mr. Taylor's was thirty-eight point one seven; is that 

correct? 

A Yes. This is correct, 

Q And that in the Mims - Smith race, Mr. Mims's 

vote was forty-three point four three percent and Mr. 

Smith's was forty-one point five zero percent; is that 

correct? 

A Yes, 

Q And now, looking at the third of these summaries, 

would you tell us, that is headed summary of data, shift of 

the black swing vote to Greenough in 1973 runoff, would you 

tell us what this reflects? 

Rs Yhe first section -- again, it is the listing 

of the wards by groups showing the returns for Mr, Bailey 

and, Mr. Greenough giving the means for the low income 

black wards, the low middle income black wards and then 

the total mean which would be the combination of the two. 

As you can see, as a total mean of the wards we 

classified black, Mr. Bailey received forty-three point 

three percent and Mr, Greenough fifteen point three nine 

percent in the first race and then, in the second race, 

below that ...ieeove 

  

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1134 
  

Q In the runoff, how did it come out? 

A In the runoff, we did the same thing, which is 

the second group of figures. Mr, Bailey received fifty-nine 

point three percent and Mr, Greenough forty-three point 

two percent, 

Q What effect, in your opinion did this shift in the 

vote in the black wards have on the Bailey - Greenough 

runoff? 

A Well, it was very significant in the election of 

Gary Greenough as finance commissioner of the City of 

Mobile. As you can see by the figures, Greenough gained 

substantially more between the first race and the runoff 

than did Mr. Bailey. 

Now, particularly when you consider that Bailey 

received -- oh, Soughls forty-eight point one percent of the 

vote the first time, Mr. Greenough had his back to the wall 

pretty much in the runoff and this was a very significant 

shift in the vote. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

I offer, in evidence, these three susmaring 

which I would like to have marked under one number and as 

A, B, and C, respectively. 

(Defendant's Exhibit 88A, B and £# were 

received and marked, in evidence) 

  

      
  

S02        



  

  

  

   

   

    

       

      

        

    

   

   
MR, ARENDALL: 

Dr. Voyles, did you notice any comparison or 
  

make any comparison between the vote of black groups of 

differing economic levels and so far as voting for black 

candidates is concerned when compared with black and white 

groups of similar economic levels voting for the eventual 

   winners? 

A I am not for sure I follow your question. 
  

Q Yai I will ask you whether or not the difference 

   between black greups of different economic levels is greater 

   in voting insofar as voting with black candidates is 

   concerned than it was between black and white groups in 

   similar economic levels in voting on the eventual winners? 
   

A Yes, I believe it was, 

Q : ‘I believe it has already been testified to, but 
i 

is it a fact that ward ten was split fifty fity in the Baile 

- dreenough runoff? 

    

A Yes. Exactly each of the candidates got the same 

   number of votes. 
   

Q Dr. Voyles, as a political scientist, how do 

   you value the importance to the fact that this improvement 

   

  

of the black vote for Greenough &nd the results of that 1973 
  

election is in the overall voting patterns and political 

   picture in Mobile? 

  

  

non-pa 

dimini 

dimini 

  

      
  

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reater 

same 

  

   

  
   

      
    

  

     

    

    

  

A Well, I think we are running, throughout the 

south, Mobile included, to more normal voting patterns, 

a situation in which race will not be a major political 

issue. 

Certainly not tb the extent that it was in the 

Q In your opinion, during the 1960's was the black 

vote very cohesive? 

A Yes. I think it was and even prior to the 1960's. 

Q Is it fair to say that the non-partisan voter's 

league, for a able, played a part in that cohesiveness of 

the black vote? 

A Yes. I think they played a very significant 

Q In your opinion, the 1973, had the impact of the 

non-partisan voter's league pink sheet endorsement substantia 

diminished and had black cohesiveness substantially 

diminished? 

A Yes. I think it has, I don't want to imply that 

endorsement by the non-partisan voters league is not 

important, because it is, However, I think it is destined 

to happen once you get a larger block of voting that is 

more voters, it becomes very difficult for any one group 

to represent their total interest. As blacks become more 

   
    
   
   

  

   
   

    

   

   
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          004: —   
 



  

  

  

assimilated into the political system, endorsement groups 

are going to become less a factor, following somewhat the 

same pattern as the labor unions, but as we know, labor 

union endorsement in Mobile is not worth a great number of 

votes. All members do not vote the way their people 

endorse candidates. 

Q Would you expect this trend of individual 

voter decision by blacks to continue? 

A Yes, I think it wouldy I think individual is 

a good word, but I think also there is diverse interest in 

the black community that are going to be continued to be 

represented by other groups other than one nominating 

group. I think testimony by the non-partisan voters 

league members earlier indicated that they think this is 

true also, 

Q What is your opinion as to whether the future 

sees white candidates appealing more openly and diligently 

for black support than in the past? 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Is this a hypothetical question, your Honor? 

If not, I object, because there is no evidence in the 

record. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

It is asking him for his opinion as a political 

  

scient 

MR, BI 

THE CC 

whiches 

the sar 

the Mol 

still 

electo: 

  

        2035          



  

  
  

1138 

scientist, 
ups 

MR, BLACKSHER: 
the 

Is the predicate hypothetical or not? 
r 

THE COURT: 
r of 

That is a hypothetical, giving an opinion. 

MR. STILL: 

The question is white candidates appealling more 

openly for black votes? 

THE COURT: 
is 

I understood. That is what he would see in the 
t in 

future and that is the question and you may answer, 
be 

A Yes, I think they will, I see no reason why not 

to. 

MR. ARENDALL: 
is 

In your opinion, if there is cohesiveness or to 

whatever degree there is cohesiveness of black votes, the 
e 

power of the blacks would be represented by that cohesive 
ntly 

vote, would it not? 

A Yes. I think that hypothetically or practically, 

whichever way you want me to answer this thing, it ends up 

the same way. I think that any group that has cohesion in 

the Mobile community, and I believe the black community 
; . 

still does, will be able to represent a great deal of the 

electoral power on election day from the fact that the others 
ical | ; : 

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1139 
  

  

    

vote, as witnessed in the '73 race and also in the '76 

county commission race, the other vote is split. The 

elections are very close dnd the white community has been 

very well split. 

Anybody that can put together a block of votes 

has a very strong bargaining position in the community. 

Q | And to such extent as cohesiveness diminishes 

through the lessening of what is apparently called polariz- 

ation, will that not require even greater effort on the part 

of white candidates to address themselves to matters of 

concern to blacks? 

A Oh, yes, definitely. Because as the group becomes 

less cohesive, it is going to change the campaign style of 

white candidates in the black community, They are going to 

have to appeal to more interest through different ways, I 

expect, in the black community, 

0, Now, Dr. Voyles, I would like to pass to the 

1976 elections. 

Did you have anything to do with that election? 

A Yes. My firm provided the professional services 

for the Dan Wiley campaign. He was successful in winning 

the county commission, place one, the position filled by 

Mr, Yeager. 

MR, ARENDALL: 

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I offer in evidence voting place count and turn 

out and votes for Bridges and Wiley in that election. 

A I might add for the Court, these are the new 

wards. I believe these are the first Exhibits with the 

new reapportioned wards. 

THE COURT: 

So they have no correlation to these wards on 

this man here, which is Defendant's Exhibit -- what is the 

number of that -- those wards are not the same wards: is 

that correct? 

MR. ARENDALL: 

That is correct. 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Then I offer Exhibit 32, which shows additional 

data with reference to that Wiley - Bridges race. 

(Defendant's Exhibits 31 and 32 received 

and marked, in evidence.) 

MR. ARENDALL: : 

Dr. Voyles, in connection with your activities 

on behalf of Mr. Wiley in that race, did you have any 

|| occasion to determine whether or not the various candidates 

were seeking black votes? 

  

        508  



1141 
  

A To my knowledge, each of the candidates in the plac 

one race sought the black endorsement through the non- 

partisan voters league and also launched very vigorous 

advertising campaigns in the black community. 

Q There has been some talk here about the cost of 

elections in house districts and comparison with at large 

city slettions. 

In your opinion, how much cheaper, if any, would 

it be for one to launch a vigorous campaign in a contested 

election in a house district race in relation to the cost 

of a city commission, at large, race? 

A. I think it would be very little difference between 

campaigning, at large, and campaigning in single member 

districts. If it was a vigorous campaign fought by two 

candidates that wanted to campaign hard. The reason I 

say that, the big expense in campaigning, regardless of 

the, size of the district, is the media and the media rates 

are the same regerdless of the audience you are trying to 

reach, 

For instance, we go down and buy a thirty minute 

spot on the T.V. and we have to pay the same rate, : 

THE COURT: 

But do the district candidates address themselves 

to the same thing? 

re 

  

  

  

  

  

  
            209 

  

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how can they be a pivotal vote? 

A Not to the same degree. They still have cohesivene 

but you were doing a comparison thing. I don't think, for 

example, we are going to see in the 1970's returns from the 

black areas where one candidate has received ninety percent 

of the black vote as once was the case in Joe Langan's races. 

I think we are going to see or we did see in the 1973 - 1976 

race simple cohesiveness within the black community, but 

nothing like it was in the 1960's. 

Q Did you examine Lonia Gill's race for the school 

board $a 19747 

A No. I have not. 

Q And have you examined the data that we introducea 

into evidence in this case regarding Mrs. Lonia Gill's, the 

vote she received? 

A No. I have not, but you are talking about the 

school commission race there where I think should be distin- 

guished from the City Commission, county commission races. 

Q Why is a school board race different than a 

county commission race? If we are talking about racial 

polarization within the city of Mobile? 

A We are talking about elections that are on different 

levels. A school board race simply does not attract the 

attention nor the finances, the money being spent, as a 

        "530:  



1171 
  

city commission, county commission race. 

As a result, it is my belief that races like 

school board Fachs, license commissioner races and things 

of this nature depend more upon the personality or the 

neighborhood that a person happened to come from, name 

identification that they have gained through some other 

way than say a city commission - county commission race. 

There are no issues in school board races. 4 

Q Except perhaps whether you want the schools 

integrated or not? 

A I don't think anyone really brought that up this 

last time with the exception of Mr. westbrook, who ran last. 

Q Let me understand this, are you saying that certain 

elections, certain types of elections, are so qualitatively 

different that they cannot be feasibly compared with a 

Mobile City Commission election to tell us the voting 

behavior of city voters? 

A : Yes. I think so. 

0 Or is a presidential election primary in another 

state qualitatively different or qualitatively the same as 

the Mobile City Commission race? 

A I don't know that I can really answer that other 

than we see the voting patterns. There it is, an election 

that gets a deal of attention. 

  

  

  

  

  
    o11       

this t- 

cation 

you are 

thousai 

will nc 

probab: 

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minute 

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1171 
  

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1172" 
  

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Q ea Your running? 

A : But you also spend a lot of money and get a lot 

of name identification that does not occur in these minor 

races like the school board. 

Q well, is it the amount of money or is it the kind 

of issues that are raised? 

A I think the amount of money determines a great deal 

the kind of issues that are raised. If you can spend -- let's 

take a figure of forty thousand dollars on a race. You are 

able to penetrate the voting market much better than you are 

say in a school board race where you are going to spend four 

or five thousand dollars. 

Thus, a candidate running for a major office upendin: 

this type of money can start with very little name identifi- 

cation and build it in all segments of the. community; whereas) 

you are going to run for the school board and say spend four 

thousand dollars and a person cannot afford to flo that. That 

will not buy you very much time on the media. There are 

probably some factors involved....... 

THE COURT: 

Let's take a recess right here. Take a twenty. 

minute recess. 

THE COURT: 

           



  

  

  

  

  

  

  

                

1177 

I make for political races and it'is my belief that race theref: 

is no longer an issue to the extent it was in the 1960's. policis 

A candidate that would raise that kind of issue today would 

cost himself as many votes as he would gain, if not more, A 

Q Are you familiar with Alexander Heards! book, represe 

"The New Negro Politics"? Q 

A | Yes, least, 
£ 

Q He makes the statement, let me read you a . 1 we have 

statement and lét me ask you whether you agree with it, | about, 

"The two elections -- that he has just talked A 

about =-- suggest the important conclusion that cohesiveness and img 

among negro voters lessens when their right to vote is not Q 

challenged, and when white candidates solicit their votes is not 

with the same impartiality that they solicit white votes, because 

Certainly such as the experience in the upper south and in A 

northern cities," is a ce 

A Yes. { to that 

Q would you agree with that? and com 

A Yes, ; It is = 

Q He goes on further, "while the importance of one | issue =z 

basis for block voting among negroes will decline as negro F 

sufferage becomes better established, another basis for unity | don't F 

in negro voting exists. Thoughtful negroes hold a remarkably black. 

uniform view; most negroes are under privileged, They should It THE COU 

013 

i    



one 

gro 

unity 

rkably 

should 

1178 
  

    

  

  

therefore support candidates advocating ocinomie and social 

policies benfecial to the mass of under privileged citizens", 

Do you agree with that statements 

A I think that is probably the case that blacks do 

represent a certain segment of the economic community. 

Q Now, 1973 and in 1976 we have evidence that at 

least, in those elections and at least in the ones that 

we have talked about, the particular races we have talked 

about, that black votes were sought impartially? 

A No. The races that I was involved in, yes, openly] 

and sipariially, 1 think. 

Q Now, you are saying that you can tell that 1973 

is not a deviating election from a racial polarized pattcrn, 

because it was reaffirmed in 1976? 

A That is part of it, Mr. still. I think algo there 

is a certain amount of intelligence and logic we have to put 

to that. All we have to do is to watch the nightly news 

and compare what we were watching in 1965 and '66 and so on. 

It is a simple fact that race is not a major news getting 

issue as it was in the 1960's. ‘ 

We don't have people marching in the streets. We 

don't have the situation of the conflict between white and 

black. 

THE COURT: 
            ola |   
 



  
  

1187 
  

ture in that field, didn't you? 

A Yes, I did. 
| 

Q All right. in preparing the extension into Now, 

1973 which you have shown us on the chart that you have 

presented in this case, what elettions did you look at to 

come to the conclusion that you presented to the Court in 

your direct testimony? 

A Nineteen geventy-three City Commission and the 

1976 County Commission races. 

Q All right. Now, 

primary in the State of Alabama? 

A Yes. 

a Excuse me, that was "74 and in '72 there was a 

*76 there has been a Presidentia Presidential election and in 

primary, but you didn't look at any of those for the extensio 

of the analyses? 

Bt Ro, I &idn't, 

Q But you did look at that kind of election when 

you were doing your thesis, didn't you? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, in doing your thesis you looked at all 

elections in which blacks had run, including school board 

elections, but in the extension of your analyses, you did not 

look at the 1974 school board race in which Mrs. Lonia Gill, 

in 1972 there was a governoratoripal 

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Q So you have to look at some background facts. 

You can't just look at the computer print-outs? 

A That is what my committee told me when I first 

presented that. 

Q I see. Now, have you taken into account the 1972 

Presidential race, the 1974 school board race, the 1974 

governoratorial race in coming to your conclusion that you 

have made here in the Court about the 1970's? 

A No. I have not and, to explain why, if I may, 

the last Prasitential race I think would have no bearing-on 

it any more than the 1964 Presidential race would; that is, 

that it was an extraordinary race because of the candidac 

of Goldwater in '64 and McGovern in *72. is 

I included the Goldwater race in the desertation 

because it chronologically fell in where I was talking about. 

The school board race, again, I do not think that those type 

of races have a particular bearing on the type of case we 

are talking about here. I think they are all together 

different, because of the name identification factor. 

Simply put, there are no issues ih a school board 

race. You win simply because of name identification and 

it is logical for the voters to do this in the school board 

The governoratorial primary, I did not look at that. 

Q You also did not look at the 1970 County 

        016:    



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Commission race in which Joe Langan ran, did you? 

A No, I didn't. 

Qu. Why did you exclude that? 

A © I didn't do county races in the desertation. 

Q But you have included as an example of a supportir 

example for your .conclusions about the 1970's, the 1976 

race. 

A Again, still the fact that Mr. Langan involved 

in the race is going to escue the race somewhat, the 1970 

County Commission race, the fact that he was highly identi- 

fied with the black vote, 

Q If Joe Langan had run in 1976 for the County 

Commission, do you think the results would have been the 

same? 

A ; I don't know. He had a lot of things against 

him besides the race. He had been out of office for an 

awfully long tine. I think Mr. Langan could have won in 

1970 if he had run the right kind of campaign. 

Q Now, your thesis covered the City Conminsing 

election or elections from 1953 through 1969? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Isn't it true, if we are going to do any type 

of political analyses like this, we cannot use one isolated 

election, but instead, we have to look at a trend over a 

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it would be difficult for a black person to win the race. 

I don't think it would be totally impossible. 

Q But it would be more difficult than it would be 

for a white candidate? 

A I think it would be. I think blacks are somewhat 

in the same position now that Catholics were in the Al Smith, 

John Kennedy races. Someone has to win nationally to solve 

this issue. 

Q Now, you have told us that the 1973 races indicateg 

a return to the type election we had in 1953? 

A To a more normal period, yes. 

Q How many blacks were registered to vote in 

1953? 

A I have no idea. It would be very slight. 

Q It was probably less than a thousand, wasn't it? 

A I really don't know, I think I gave the figures 

to you. I don't have them up here. 

Q As a matter of fact, those figures are in your 

desertation in a chart, aren't they? 

A They may be. 

Q Dr. Voyles, you might want to step over here so 

we can look at this chart close up. I am referring to 

Plaintiff's Exhibit number 56. 

Now, as you remember, this chart shows a 

| 

        518  



  

  

  

  
  

  
  

    

— -1213 

A Yes. I believe I did. still 

Q And the R, the Pearson's R, for place one, the mean? 

Bailey - Greenough race, according to your figures was a By: A 

seven nine, wasn't it? Q 

A I don't have it, but I trust that 1s Vat it is. in '69 

Q Now, didn't you describe that in your deposition A 

as being a medium high correlation? Q 

A Yes, it is, A 

Q As a matter of fact, it explains about sixty-two Q 

percent of the vote in terms of race, doesn't it? on gra 

A Of the difference between the groups, yes. that t 

Q All right. Now, for the Mims cletion. I believe 1961 I 

the R is a point seven one? A 

A Yes. figure 

Q And that explains just about fifty percent of the Q 

vote for Mr. Mims? that y 

A’ Yes. { A 

Q Or for or against Mr. Mims in terms of race, doesn't : Q 

it? | yester 

A Yes, except Mr. Mims did so well in all the wards | 

and is really kind of meaningless in terms of politics. | a mayec 

Q Now, the Pearson's R for race for Mr. Langan in the I A 

'53 election was point four one and '57 it was point five | same & 

two; in '61 is point seven one, which is -- all of those are | that 1 

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still less than what Mr. Greenough got in '71 -- '73, I 

mean? 

A Yes. I agree with that. 

Q And in '65, Mr. Langan's was point nine three and 

in '69 it was point nine one? 

A Yes. 

Q Which those were the two peaks? 

A Yes. | 

Q Now, looking at these figures, rather than just 

on graph, if we just look at these figures, wouldn't we say 

that the Bailey - Greenough race in 1973 was more like the 

1961 Langan race if we looked only at those figures? 

A Yes. That is why we don't look only at those 

figures. It would be quite misleading. ; 

Q Sc instead we look at these figures and the chart 

that you have given us, right? . i 

A I think so and the voting returns. 

Q Now, you went over some of the relative merits 

yesterday of the commission system of governhent 

What would you say are the relative good points of 

a mayor-council system of government? } 

A I think the relative good points are somewhat the 

same as Mr. Langan described when he was giving his testimony 

that is, you have a centralized administrative authority and 

y - 

          520   
 



1215 
  

  

  

one person, who is responsible back to the voters and you 

have separate legislative authority through the council, 

which is also responsible back to the voters. It is much 

easier, I believe, to pinpoimt responsibility in a mayor- 

council system than it is in a commission form of government. 

I think this is some advantage. 

Q Don't you get wider representation around the 

city? 

A I assume it depends on what you mean by how it is 

divided and drawn. 

Q Now, yesterday you were asked on direct examination 

about the number of white people who would be located in 

predominantly black wards and the number of black people that 

would be located in predominantly white wards and the point 

was made, I believe, at that time, that if there was a return 

to racial polarization that the white people living in 

predominantly black wards would be essentially unrepresented. 

Their votes would be diluted? 

A Yes. We say that if we took it to an extreme of 

polarization. 

Q Isn't that what is happening right now with the 

sixty-five thousand black people in this City that if racial 

polarization resumes that their vote won't count for anything 

A If there is racial polarization to that extreme, 

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        87        



  

  

  

  

    

i oo loyeye 1216 

Br yes, that would happen. I don't think that is the case. 

For example, my legislator happens to be black and 

sh I don't think I am just disinfranchised or don't have access 

" to him. 

She ) Q If we go to the same hypothetical you were offering 

i yesterday? 

A Oh, yes. If we go to extreme polarization between 

i black and white, unless the black community could get into 

: 1s the position of playing coalition politics to influence 

i elections very drastically, it would be a very difficult 

sation i thing to anticipate. They have been able to be in that 

: position before. 

2. that Q Now, also yesterday you gave us a list of reascns 

sing why multi-member districting might be preferential to single 

ce Euer 4 member districts. | 

Do you remember those reasons? You don't have to 

nted. | go over them. I want to see if you remember what you said? 

A I am not sure I know what you are referring to. 

of | Q Weil, I believe you were talking about the techno- 

logical problem of districting? AT 

ts ; A I am with you. 

cial Q Special interest groups and that sort of thing? 

thing? | A Yes. 

eo, | Q Are any of those peculiar to Mobile as opposed to 

522             
 



  

  

  

  
  

  

  
  

  
  

1246 5 

: 

Q Captain, is it the policy of the planning division, 

as it advises. the chief of police to provide adequate protec- i 90! 

tion to all citizens as the resources are available? ! of 

A Yes, sir, ie 

Q Irregardless of race? ; 

A Yes, sir, : iki 

MR. BEDSOLE: : 

I have no further questions. : of 

THE COURT: ] wou 

You may cross him. pod 

A 

CROSS EXAMINATION Ott 

BY MR. BLACKSHER: Q 

Captain Winstanley, you have explained to us the gon 

system you used to assign the number of patrol cars to given A 

patrol areas and the size those patrol areas will be geograph- Q 

| scaly; is that correct? | fee 

A Not necessarily the size. It is on the amount of A 

crime in an area, not necessarily -- as I just pointed out, t Riv 

you can take patrol area fifteen in a predominantly black : Q 

area and that would go about twenty times in thirty-nine, : A 

a predominantly white area. Therefore, size is -- we try to | Q 

consider it when we can, because a car has to come from one i whi 

side of his territory to another to answer a call, but the bid 

od            



  
  

§ 
1246 8 

i 

sion, 

southern water shed in the southern and southwestern part 
ptec- 

: of the City of Mobile. 

: THE COURT: 
f 

4 All right. 

MR, BEDSOLE: 

Mr. Joyner, I believe we have got the color 

of green indicated completed or perhaps just started. I 

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A would like to look at the various areas using the 

i pointer. where is the westlawn.project located? 

A The westlawn project is located centrally in the 

  City of Mobile at this point here. 

  

Q Would that be the east of the Springdale Plaza 

vo 1 ‘complex? 

ven } A It would be north of Springdale Plaza. 

raph Q Would you indicate which water shed that would   feed into? 

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at, ¢ River water shed. 

: ; Q Where is the east Toulminville project? 

: : A It is located in the northeast section of Mobile. 
i 

- to | Q And I believe that you have prepared a chart 

ne : which we will offer in evidence as an Exhibit, but this   a AS ——~, 

e bid opening took place January 16, 1973? 

  
          | 5" 

 



1254 
  

  
  

A That is correct. It was one of the first. The 

westlawn and Springhill Avenue were the first projects let. 

Q And the east Toulminville project affects a 

primarily black neighborhood; is that correct? 

A Yes, sir, As far as I know, 

Q And Springhill Avenue project? 

A . Well, it was considered an emergency project for 
¥ 

years. There had been complaints about ambulances not being 

able to get in and out of Providence Hospital. That was 

the reason for initiating the ones gn Springhill Avenue 

First. 

Q Before we go any furthey, relate to ug the 

priority that you have in your major drainage projects? By 

that, I think you have sndivated emergency and so forth, 

would you relate the hierarchy of your scheme? 

A when this program first started out, it was set 

up And we tried to catch emergencies first and then ve would 

catch the drains that served the greater number of people 

second and then individuals third. That is the way the 

program was started and, Lf I may, I would like to get into 

a little background about the program, with the Court's 

permission? 

THE COURT: 

All right. 

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help to serve the drains for the Dauphin Street thorough 

fare? 

THE COURT: 

Are you speaking of the extension? 

MR, BEDSOLE: 

Yes, sir. 

A No, sir. I don't think you could say it weuld 

affect the Dauphin Street. 

Q Moore's Creek, phase one? 

AR... This is Moore *s Creek, phase one, in an area of 

Kite $nepherals Soncel, St. Ignacious School, and ....... 

Q Big Stickney drainage next to Mobile Infirmary? 

A This is Big Stickney here. It was necessary to 

put this one on in to help with the Springhill Avenue 

drainage problem in front of the Providence Hospital. 

Q That was also on an emergency type of need? 

A | It was. It was outfall for Springhill drainage. 

Q Texas Street area, southern drain? 

A That is this drain right here in the Texas urban 

renewal area, \ 

Q I am going on and on, Let us go into some of the 

ones that we have the plans drawn and that is indicated by 

the yellow, I believe, sir, 

A That is correct. 
    
  

    BEG TC  



1266 
  

  

    
  

with the map. 

There has been Some testimony in this case, 

Mr. Joyner, about the problems with Three Mile Creek and the 

fact that perhaps some of these projects that led into it 

will cause water to be dumped into the Three Mile Creek 

and won't help alleviate anything until we get the Three 

Mile Creek problem corrected. 

Can you address yourself to the problem of the 

Three Mile Creek drainage? 

A well, I would certainly have to say it is a big 

problem, If you wanted to put it into some sort of an 

equation, I think you might say that Three Mile Creek is 

to the City of Mobile as the Mississippi River is to the 

United States. Sure, if you dump water into it, it is 

going to affect jit, but Three Mile: Creek has flooded in the 

past and I suspect that it will flood in the future and I 

would almost be willing to bet on it. 

Q What sort of requests has the city made to 

various agencies for help with Three Mile Creek problem? 

A well, we have had one meeting that I recall with 

the Corp of Engineers about Three Mile Creek. Wwe realize 

that it is a big problem and we want to do something about 

it, but we are talking about millions of dollars, not just 

something like the three or four million that we referred 

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to here as a typical drain in our major drainage program. 

We are talking about -- I don't have a figure and 

I wouldn't even want to guess, but we are talking about a 

lot of millions of dollars to control Three Mile Creek. Wwe 

approached the Corp of Engineers for some help on this and 

for ome advice and we met in Colonel Wilson's office about 

a year ago. I don't remember the date, but it occurs to me 

it was about 2 vest ago and, at that meeting, we asked for 

help. The city commission did, oF Commissioner Mims, and 

later on we received a letter from Congressman Saiards that 

he ald toy to set Eads up on it, on the oncoming budget, 

to Pelp with the study, to give the: doth funds to make a 

study of Three Mile Creek, 

Q | 1m your pinion, ad an engineer, Mr. Joyner, is 

the Three Mile Creek drainage problem, taking the regources 

of the City of Mobile, is it one that the city itself can 

cope with? 

A No, sir. I don't think so. 

Q There have been discussions that perhaps a concrets 

culvert type of thing be placed in Three Mile Creek. would 

this be feasible? 

A If you are talking about the normal flows within 

Three Mile Creek and the water that is just between bank to 

bank, you could probably safely say well this would be fine 

1267 

        0x8  



1278 
  

couldn®*t acquire the right of way there or easement. 

Q Have you talked about all of the completed 

projects now that were built under that second priority? 

A "In fact, most all of them fall under the prioriti 

of serving the biggest number of people. I don't think 

there would be a single ona on here that would be classi- 

fied as an individual. It would either have to be an 

emergency or a greater number of people. 

Q : Okay. I think you said, Mr. Joyner, that the 

first one that was completed was the westlawn project? 
——— 

: 
r 

A I don't have the dates. They all were let within 

the same month or two wesks apart. 

Q Westlawn, east Toulminville and Springhill 

Avenue? 

Ac That's right. That was in January of ®*73. Those 

were our first starts on the major drainage program. 

Qe That was in 1973. 

What kind of expenditures did the: City of 

Mobile make before 1973 for drainage? ' 

A I don't have any knowledge of how much trey spent 

prior to that. I haven't been with the City all that long. 

Q You are giving us a chronology of events, to your 

personal knowledge? 

A Yes, sir. 

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MR, BLACKSHER: 

Have you compiled any figures, Mr. Joyner, that 

would tell us how much money has been spent on drainage 

projects in each of the three major water sheds, broken 

down by water shed? 

A No, sir. I don‘t have those figures,   
Q Is there something in the record already in these 

Exhibits that will mallow us to look at them and make that 

  computation? 

A Yes, sir. These Exhibits would reflect the 

amounts in relation to the plat and sums. 

Q 7 ‘Would those Exhibits tell us each water shed the 

projects drain into? 

A No, 'sir: The Exhibit won't reflect that. I 

think the only way you could do that would be to look at the | 
| 
| 

map and see which one of the creeks it drains into. | 

Q well, real quickly, just show the Court which 

of those projects that are already completed drain into 
| 

Three Mile Creek? 

A Starting at the Three Mile Creek area we have the 

east Toulminville drainage draining into the Three Mile, 

Creek area. We have a drain located just south of the Mobile 

General Hospital that is draining into Three Mile Creek   
area. We have a small drain out at Carrie Drive east that 

    530 . Cam aE 

1280



20 

“© mr —— 1281 
  

drains into the Three Mile Creek area. 

Q ve have two? 

A Park Forrest drains -- that drains into the 

Three Mile Creek, | 

Q Is that Forrest Park or Park Forrest? 

A Park Forrest, I believe, I am sorry, if I got 

it backwards. Then there are two drains located in the 

west Border Drive area in Sountey Club Village that drains 

into Three Mile Creek that are completed. 

The Broad Street drainage, which is a project 

funded by federal, state and city, drains into Three 

Mile Creek. That is the only ones, at this time, that I 

can pick out that drains’ into Three Mile Creek, 

Q Just for the record, now, are all the green indicated 

projects completed since 1973? 

A Yes, sir, with one exception. I think that there 

is’ one here on South of the Mobile General Hospital that 

was either completed in the first part of '73 or just prior 

to '73. 

Q Now, the problems, as I understand it, from all 

of this testimony with Three Mile Creek is that it serves 

such a wide area of Mobile west of the river? 

A Yes. 

Q And that a number of tributaries drain into it 

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and by the time you get down closer to the river in the 

inner areas of the city, the banks swell; am I correct? 

A Any time that you increase the velocity of these 

drains on the side you have the water, to the river, faster 

than you would have a tendency...... 

THE COURT:   He talking about the basic problem, as I understand 

it, not what steps you were taking to relieve it. He is 

talking about why Three Mile Creek creates the flooding 

i 
| 
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conditions that it does? 

A - Well, the Three Mile Creek carrying the volume | 

of water, it expands its boundaries and floods. | 

MR, BLACKSHER: 

It is going to be very expensive, because you rave 

to some how widen the drainage area particularly as it gets 

close to the river and that is why you have to call the 

Corp of Engineers for help. 

A I am not sure widening would solve the problem. 

Q My question to you is I don't understand why you 

would want to build all of these drainage projects that are 

further away from the river first, which seems to me would   
    932   
 



  

to work from the other end. 

tend to swell the amount of drainage that you would get 

closer to the river. It seems to me that you would want 

A ; wa are definitely talking about some swelling. 

I am not sure wa are talking about much more than maybe 

a half inch or an inch of swelling, but due to the improve- 

ments we are making .esee 
~ - 

Q when Mr. Mims was on the stand, he was telling 

us that it would not be wise to pave the streets in Trinity 

Gardens or to build further drainage projects in Trinity 

Gardens until Three Mile Creek could be reinforced or 

fixed somehow to accept this greater drainage; is that 

correct? 

A well, I don't know hak to say about that other 

than if we get to talk about the project of drainage in 

Trinity Gardens it is a real flat area. There is no place 

mych for the water to go and it is our aim to try to 

provide some outlets for this water in the Three Mile 

Creek =-- into Three Mile Creek from Trinity Gardens and 

that is the only place it can go. 

Q Having consulted with the Corp of Engineers, 

Mr. Joyner, does the city have any proposal in mind to 

solving the problem of the Three Mile Creek drainage 

project? Your testimony is pretty pesimestic that there is 

1283 

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 t { no solution. 

ant E A tf you talked to hydraulic experts and all, they 

H hate to jump to hasty conclusions about what to do to solve 

2g. ; that problem right now. That is the reason we have asked 

e for a study and asked help from the Corp for a study on 

SY ove : Three Mile Creek. 
i 

7 We have tried to dredge it and let me bring out, 

ng t if I may, Three Mile Creek starts out here at Cody Road 

-inity and it is probably forty or fifty feet above sea level. 

ty Down here, close to the Mobile River area, it is at sea 

level. ' 

3 THE COURT: 

i well, now, that is the question I wanted to ::sx 

her 2 you. What is the highest sea level in the Mobile area that 

A £ these water sheds affect; is it foeey, the highest? 

lace ig A No, sir, I live a hundred and forty feet above 

5 sea level and water off of my yard runs into Dog River. 

t The whole western part of town here, primarily -- well, I 

a : would say from right along in here on up-to: fers, all of 

i this drains into Three Mile Creek, the whole northern half 

i of the city drains into Three Mile Creek’ 

: THE COURT: 

And that runs from sea level near the Mobile River 

are is to what? G 

pa a34              



1285 

  

    

  

A well, I was fixing to say from Mobile River to 

Staton Road is sea level and from Staton Road on up to 

Cody ROAA. vee ses 

THE COURT: 

That is out close to the Providence Hospital? 

A It is out past the Mobile Infirmary. 

THE COURT: | : 

It is sea level that far? 

A ; Yes, sir. And we have to have permits to drain 

into that, because it is affected by the tide. 

THE COURT: 

All right. what is the outer most limits of the 

city? 

A From there on out to the outer most limits -- 

I don't have a quad sheet or anything to refer to, but I 

am sure it exceeds fifty sixty feet on out to the western 

limits. 

what I was about to say there, out here you get 

a lot of velocity in your stream. It picks up soil erosion 

off of yards and along the banks and everything and it has 

a tendency to deposit this silt from stanton Road to the 

Mobile River, We have gone in there and dredged and in 

researching the records, we otabked dredging Three Mile 

Creek in 1958. 
  

            
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In 1958 you could take the material out of that 

creek and put it up on the hmks and give a larger capacity, 

you might say, for the creek without any problem, but now 

days to dredge this body of water we have to have permits. 

People don't particularly want us to put the soil on their 

property and the three areas that we do have places to placs 

spoil, when we put it up there we have to haul it off. So, 
- 

we do try to keep Three Mile Creek dredged and opened up 

to handle all the water it can, but we have problems 

with that. 

MR, BLACKSHER: 

You say you have to get permits other than 

2) v 

  land owners'? Do you have the United States government 

to deal with? 

correct. A That is We ask them for the permit 

and they take the application and circulate it. It goes 

through the water improvement commission, EPA and various 

other agencies, 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

why is it, Mr. Joyner, that the city has not 
‘ ) : 

approached the fundamental problem of the Three Mile Creek 

drainage situation until 1975 when you went to the Corp 

of Engineers? 

A well, the Three Mile Creek area has flooded, you 

      936: 
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1287 
  

know, all the way back as far as I know and all of a sudden 

everyone becomes conscious about trying to do something 

about the drainage. I think that would be in *72. 

In *75 was the time in which we were approached 

and in which wa asked for help on it. 

Q You can't say what is going to happen on Three 

Mile Creek? 

A I hope that there will be some means in which 

we can help control it, but I don't think that we will 

ever master it. 

Q Just a couple of other questions here. 

Among the completed drainage projects, you 

mentioned the Texas Street southern project in the urban 

renewal area? 

A . Yes, sir. 

Q Was that financed in any part by federal funds? 

A. I don't have any knowledge of how the financing 

was set up on the project. I understand that sometimes tha 

they have revenue sharing involved in them, but I don't 

know the amounts or how much. 

THE COURT: 

Are you going to be with him much longer? 

MR, BLACKSHER: 

Just one more question. 

        837   
  

  

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1dden You said that the west Toulminville drainage 

project, which will provide relief for Trinity Gardens is 

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eligible for community development funds. 

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ed : why is that particular project eligible? 

A when you gtart looking at sixty miles of drains 

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18 and you are limited in funds, you start searching and 

looking for everybody that is willing to contribute or 

help out with it and these community development funds 

were there, 

Q Are the other projects also eligible for   
community development funds? 

A No, sir. 

an Q Y am trying 0 cee éavee 

MR, BEDSOLE: 

We will have a witness testify about the   
community development program. 

MR, BLACKSHER: 

You don't know the answer to the question? 

A No, sir. 

MR. BLACKSHER: :   All right. Your Honor, I said one more and I am 

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through. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 
  

BY MR, BEDSOLE: 

      838 +        



1289 
  

Q Mr. Joyner, as relates to the Trinity Gardens 

area, is it necessary to lower any creek to drain this? 

Is it necessary to lower the drainage as it comes out the 

Trinity Gardens like a saucer? 

A Well, Trinity Gardems is flat and everybody knows 

that if you have a flat surface like that and water gets on 

it and you can't get it off readily, if you will put a 

grade to it and give it a tilt you.can carry water off from 

an area, . That is what we are attempting to do is grade 

it out to Three Mile Creek. 

MR, BEDSOLE: 

That's all, 

THE COURT: 

All right. Gentlemen, be back at one-thirty-five. 

(LUNCHEON RECESS) 

4 

THE COURT: 

All right, whom will you have next? 

MR, BEDSOLE: 

Tom Peavy. 

TOM PEAVY 

the witness, called on behalf of the Defendants, 

and after having first been duly sworn to tell the truth, 

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THE COURT: 

Yes. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 
  

BY MR. STILL: 

Q I would like to show you what has been marked, for 

identification, as Plaintiff’, s Exhibit ‘sumber 111, ‘which are   
documents fecaived from fhe office of revenue sharing 

{ 
| 
| 

concerning the 2onrlaiat issued or tritiated by the N.A.A.C.P. 

As you. can see, the lecter marked dev, to the 

Honorable Lambert c Mims, 1s from the local branch of the 

N. A. A C. , Ie is a three page letter signed by Dr. Gaillaird. 

I call your particular gttention to the document labellc: 

in which is a memo or a memorandum to the file from Robert 

Murphy 2nd several other people. 

Mr. Miarphy was one of the people that you met   with; is that correct? | 

A Dr. Murphy, sos. 

Q Now, among the things ehat you looked at during 

that compliance Eoview trip here to Mobile was * Herndon 

Park and Gorgus Community Center that you looked at? 

A I did Bot attend those trips with them concerning 

the parks. I hao nothing to do with them. 

Q All right. I call your attention to the statement 

        540.2 

 



  

  
  

on page two of this memorandum which says, "Pictures of 

these two parks clearly show that Herndon Park, which was 

in the white community, is in better condition than Gorgus 

County Center. Furthermore, the swimming pool in the 

center is not operative and is in dire nesd of repairs." 

Is that a correct statement from this? 

A I am not familiar with_the condition of the parks; 

no, sir. 

Q "All right. And did not they say on page three of 

this memordandum that even though they found no discriminatio 

that they recommended that there be a follow-up to see that 

the pools in minority areas are constructed and renovated 

in time to be used by the beginning of next summer? 

A It was my understanding that these pools have been 

done, not by the next summer, but they have bean done as of 

this date. 

o This memorandum is dated 8/31/73, I believe. 

Now, the next section of the report 'deals with 

paving, resurfacing and drainage and begins on page four 

of the memorandum. 

On page five there is the following statement, 

"However, it is quite evident that these areas, to a very 

large degree, talking about paving here, with the exception o 

Trinity Gardens and the Bay Bridge area are being used for 

        041   
  

  

  
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commercial and commuter traffic, such as Davis, Stanton, 

Donald and Summerville Streets rather than for use of 

citizens in more generalized residential areas." 

The yellow areas noted on the map indicate that 

resurfacing Peb3eiis have bosh concentrated on the main 

streets of the white netghborhoods. There is clear evidence 

that the resurfacing projects were not performed on an 

equitable basis of the neighborhoods. 

A I would have to disagree with that. 

Q You dosages with that? 

A it Yes, sir. | 

Q | But if you take a look at your map, wouldn't you 

say that the yellow lines are primarily in the white 

neighborhoods? 

A I seem to see yellow lines all over that map. 

Q The report goes on to state, "The complainant 

elso provided several photographs of areas which had poor 

drainage, such as Chien and Persimmon Street which were 

caused by the dike built by the city to retain the water from 

the river. The city has now agreed to cut a hole in the 

dike so that the accumulated Warer can filter into the 

river." 

The total allocation of revenue sharing funds,   
approximately one million one hundred and seventy-six thousand! 
      042:



  

1317   

dollars, for the installation of drainage systems has been 

limited to the neighborhoods of: Riverside, Beichleiu, 

Mertz, Maryvale, Maysville, Rolling Acres, Jackson, Bolton 

and Airmont. Some of these neighborhoods are shown as areas 

with drainage problems, but others are indicated as having 

adequate drainage. All of these neighborhoods are predomi- 

nantly white. or 

Those areas which were considered with adequate 

drainage were included in the revenue sharing budget, when 

those in the black neighborhood listed as poor drainage were 

not. Also, we noted that the city's capital budget shows 

that seven hundred thousand dollars was allocated for a 

drainage project along the Dog River area which is also 

predominantly white. We did note, however, that the 

City of Mobile has allocated approximately one million dollars 

for the drainage system along the Three Mile Creek area and 

the ‘downtown section, which is predominantly black." 

Did they bring that to your attention when they 

made the audit? 

A No. I have never seen this letter. 

Q Now, I call your attention finally to within this 

larger document, a letter labelled, at the bottom, H.H., and 

it is a letter dated September.23, 1974, and sent to Mayor 

Greenough. 
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Is that a copy of a letter that you have seen 

before? 

A Yes, sir. I have seen this. 

Q All right, In that they specifically request that 

if you will follow up on the things that they mentioned in 

some earlier conversation with you, then you will have 

demonstrated compliance with the act; is that correct?   

  

A That is correct. 

sate MR. STILL: 

when Your Honor, we offer Exhibit -- Plaintiff's 

3, Were Exhibit number 111. 

dod Now, so we can understand this very clearly, 

: ‘normally low cost paving or curb and gutter paving is done 

g on an assessment basis, is it not? 

A That is correct. 

dollars Q And sidewalks are done on a one hundred percent 

and basis; aren't they? 

A That is correct. 

ey ; Q I believe with curb and gutter streets and low 

3 cost pavement, one-third of the cost is born by the local 

i residents? 

this A That's right. It makes it come out one-sixth to 

, and each property owner. 

  

044           yor 3 “11 Q To each side of the street? 

& 

 



1338   

  

as to Defendant's Exhibit 60- D, which breaks the streets 

down by the ward groupings, why didn't you break that down 

reflecting which streets were paved by private developers, 

which was done under low cost and which were done by venturef 

A I was not asked to do that, sir. 

MR. MENEFEE: 

Okay, sir. No further.questions. 

THE COURT: 

You may come down. 

Whom will you have next? - 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

Just one further, Mr. Summerall, isn't this map 

number 60-E, does it reflect that done by the city in red, 

either by the venture system and that done by private 

developers in the green? 

A Yes, sir. That's right. 

Q : But is it not done by ward group? 

A No, sir, 

Q Based on your observations as to the red and green, 

Mr. Summerall, has most of the work that has been done by thd 

developers been in the western section of the city? 

A Yes, sir. 

MR. BLACKSHER: 

Objection, your Honor. That is an observation 
        JST: 1         

  

  

  

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1338 
  

green, 

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figure. It was, at one time, one million nine something. 

The second year was two million seven hundred and sixty- 

two thousand dollars and the third year estimate was four 

point six million and I think the figures will remain 

four point six million, at least that is the published 

and for the remaining three years, four point six, four 

point six, et cetera. 

Q I will ask you this, Mr. Barnett. Taking your 

study -- let's say the base study, the 1966 neighborhoods 

of Mobile, and the up date, the 1975 housing demand and 

needs analysis. Your city planning commission makes 

studies of it and classifies houses in these various 

neighborhoods, does it not? 

A Yes, it does. 

Q Take, for example, the Trinity Gardens 

neighborhood. Can you give us the comparative housing 

standards and the numbers since 1966? I believe you have 

them broken down in classifications of some sort? 

A Yes. The standard and depreciating and sub- 

standard and then we have vacant. In 1966 there were thirteen 

hundred and ninety-five dwelling structures in Trinity 

Gardens. Fifty-two of them were not occupied. Of this 

thirteen hundred and ninety-five, two hundred and fifty 

  

    

  
seven were listed as standard and three hundred and sixty-three 

  

        546  



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as depreciating. 

This depreciating is a term we use to say that 

the house is not standard, but it can be fixed up and it 

deserves to be. It isn't a shack and it isn't that run 

down. 

Seven hundred and twenty-three were listed as 

sub-standard and should be either destroyed or completely 

rebuilt. Fifty-two were rebuilt. In 1975 you wanted a 

comparison? 

Q Yes, sir. 

A Two hundred and fifty seven listed as standard, 

had risen to nine hundred and seventy-two standard structures 

and the depreciating number didn't change appreciably, but 

the standard dropped from seven twenty-three to twenty-six 

leaving about four hundred units in Trinity Gardens that 

needs some attention as opposed to one thousand units in 

1966. The figures completely reversed and interestingly 

enough there are less houses,only thirteen hundred and 

sixty-four, and still about thirty-four vacant. Most of 

this is caused by code enforcement by the city since they 

started a comprehensive program in 1965 and 1966. 

Q That is known as the neighborhood improvement 

program? 

A That is just a part of it. They go out and hold 

  
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        od      



  

  

3 
ob 1388 F_ 1359 

; meetings also and try to encourage people to fix their 

§ homes up. 

The inspection department will then go out and 

give the house an inspection and tell the people exactly 

what is wrong with it and neighborhood improvement would 

guide the people as to just how to get the best deal to 

fix the house up, give them guidance. Better Business 

Buearu is there. A lot of neighborhood leaders, city 

leaders and experts in the field to tell these people how 

and the best way to get their house fixed up. 

Q : So it would be a voluntary program? 

A Yes. The only thing you might say compulsory 

about the whole thing is that the City did go out there and 

tear down and condemm most of the vacant rundown shacks. 

  

MR. BEDSOLE: 

I have no further questions. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 
  

BY MR. MENEFEE: 

Q Mr. Barnett, the figures you wate ‘yusE giving us 

on the changes and housing conditions, what does that come 

from? 

A That comes from our survey and the original figures 

came from our survey using the same criteria. 

048 

  

          
  
 



  

  

  

  

      

2 eR : | 1360 PE 

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Q What is the original, the neighborhoods of 5 

: Ee eight 
Mobile? 

stanc 
A Original -- in the neighborhoods of Mobile, I ha 

: d 

combined two neighborhoods there and call it Trinity 
Lat three 

Gardens. In the neighborhoods of Mobile they are called kr 
E twent 

Nelly and Summerville and you have to add the two figures 
falle 

together to get the thirteen nimety-five. I did that quickly, 
: ; seven 

but that is approximate, very, ver close. : 

Q ; Well, the figures from your up date on the 
The o 

housing, that is a reflection of 1970 figures? 
stand 

A 1975. I have 1970 figures. I have them. I didn't 
hundr 

read them. 
six 1 

They are also listed, the 1970 figures are listed : 
way, 1 

in this Exhibit on housing demands and needs analysis under 1570 
: : 

Trinity Gardens, Nelly, Summerville and Trinity Gardens. 
change 

MR. BEDSOLE: ; 
1966 | 

Defendant's Exhibit number 90. 

A The 1970 figures. Now, you would have to add these h 
1 doesn’ 

figures, because Trinity Gardens is actually two neighbor- a ; 
- or vac 

hoods. It is called Nelly and Summerville in that publica- x 
ke that. 

tion. 
demand 

For instance, in the Nelly neighborhood, which is 
Q 

everything north of the railroad that cuts through the 
achiev 

middle section of Trinity Gardens, the figure had jumped from 

243          



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from 
    
  

  

   

one hundred and ninety-two standard to four hundred and 

eighty-seven standard and then to six hundred and seven 

standard in 1975, just for that portion, and the depreciating 

had jumped from two hundred and seventy-two in '66 to 

three hundred and sixteen in 1970, to three hundred and 

twenty-six in 1975 and the number of substandards had 

fallen from five hundred and forty to two hundred and 

seven, in 1970 to twelve in 1975. 

Now, that is just a portion of Trinity Gardens. 

The others are in the Summerville neighborhood. It had 

standard which jumped from sixty-five standard to two 

hundred and forty-one in 1970 to three hundred and twenty- 

six in 1975. The depreciating numbers changed this 

way, ninety-one in 1966 and it dropped to eighty-two in 

1970 and it dropped to forty-six in 1975. The sub-standard 

changed from one hundred and eighty-three sub-standard in 

1966 to ninety-three in 1970 down to sixteen in 1975. 

The figures that are missing from there, that 

doesn't add up to the thirteen ninety-five is the number 

of vacant. I think that is about thirey or something like 

that. So, they are in that -- whatever that housing : 

demand and needs analysis is. 

Q Is this a consistent result thatyou have 

achieved throughout the black neighborhoods in the city? 

        250°



  

A Not that dramatic in most of the other areas, but if 

is very consistent with the city as a whole. 

Dramatic results have been achieved in the city 

through code enforcement as evidenced by publications from 

HUD, "Challenge", a report put out by Mr. Papageorge in the 

HUD, complimenting on the success of code enforcement in the 

City of Mobile, eiting it as one of the best in the nation. 

He cited figures in there in 1962 using census figures. 

I think they extended from sixty -- there were nineteen 

thousand sub-standard units listed in the City of Mobile. 

In his report he said they had come in and sheourazed the 

city to start enforcing the codes and so forth and not be 

re-certified in its program, 

Since that time, he sade a survey and found that 

by 1970 those figures had dramatically dropped to less than 

three thousand sub-standard and depreciating homes. He 

coutited the ones that were brought in compliance. 

We now estimate that figure is sixty-five hundred. 

He didn't count the ones going bad, but that is a city 

wide -- that is a reduction of thirteen thousand from a 

high of nineteen thousand. 

Q This article you referred to is in the back? 

A It is in the back of the housing demands and 

needs analysis. 
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136 
  

Q Could we turn to that, please, sir? 

A Yes, sir. It is George Papageorge, yes. Here is 

the big drop, nineteen down to that. 

Q Yes, sir. 

A And he attributes it to strong code enforcement. 

Q I am reading from the first page of the article. 

It says, "Federal statutory requirements were a major factor 

in bringing about a change'? 

A That is the requirements that we enforce our 

codes. 

Q The Federal government requires that these codes 

be enforced? 

A You are required in re-certification of your 

workable program, back in those days, to have codes or you 

weren't eligible to receive urban renewal money. The reason 

for that, the Federal government didn't want cities to have 

money that were allowing housing to go bad. They insisted 

that each year and then it changed to eighteen months that 

the city certify its workable program. That is a term where 

you go plead your case and say look, we have done our job, 

enforced our codes, and now this should make us eligible 

with urban renewal and it did. We never have lost our 

certification. 

Q | The community development program has a rather 

  
  

  
     



1365 
  

  

  

Mr. Walsh about the budgeting process for the city that the 

'75 budget did not reflect revenues from the community 

development funds? 

A Well, I couldn't swear -- I know that this is -- 

we just got our new one approved. We have sent in two. 

You do one a year. I may have my math wrong, maybe 

'75 and '76. Yes, I think that's right, and the third year 

will start in '77. : 

Q Ah your neighborhoods of Mobile and again in your 

updated study, your housing....... 

A It is the housing study. 

Q The housing study, you went through the neighborhoods 

and ropented the -- to a substantial extent, re-identified 

those areas which were the most blighted; is that correct? 

A That is correct. 

Q One criteria was indices of social blight and 

shothar indices of physical blight; is that correct? 

A Right. 

Q Would it be fair to say that there is a high 

correlation between indices of social blight and the blackness 

of the neighborhood, racial composition? 

A To a large degree, yes. That was pointed out in the 

original study. We did not redo all of the original in this. 

This was more or less housing, but if you will look 

        203   
    

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1366 
  

  

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A Yes, more limited. It is dealing with housing. 

-- if you would grsph all of those things they would be 

predominantly in those areas social problems as well as 

housing problems. They overlay over each other. 

Q Would that also be true for indices of physical 

blight? 

A That is correct. 

Q This neighborhood of Mobile study, which I   
understand is based on some data from 1966, but was finally 

| 

put together and published in 1969, is the most comprehensive 

| 
analysis your department has undertaken in recent years; is 

: | 

that a fair assessment? 

A Well, I like this new housing study for what it 

is. It is much more comprehensive. We didn't do the land | 

use in here, but describing the problems in the neighborhoods | 

I think this new housing demands is more complete. 

Q But more limited? 

We did, as you mentioned, show overcrowding, got into the 

concentration of how many people lived in the black neighbor- 

hoods, where they are, and we found, for instance, ninety-five 

percent of the blacks live in about fifteen neighborhoods and 

that almost every one of those were the same as the seventeen 

or eighteen most blighted neighbortioeds. 

Q So, it was almost a perfect correlation between the 

  

      Sod:   
 



  

  

  

  

  

  

      

21 step 
most blighted neighborhoods and the black neighborhoods? hs " 

4] reta 
A Yes. I think that is what the study points out. po n 

= the rt 

That is why we picked the seventeen neighborhoods in there. : 

MR. MENEFEE : 

i tion 

No further questions, your Honor. be 
& A 

THE COURT: 
‘ 

north 

You mentioned in the housing needs study -- did you 
: : area, 

say sixteen thousand persons or sixteen thousand families 
black 

that could not buy or rent? 
we se 

A Families. That is based on their income and the 
Garde 

average cost of a2 new home, 
Dauph 

THE COURT: 
distr 

When you say rent, is that with reference to any . 

type of housing, including private? ie. 8 

KR This is in the private sector. It does include ; 
admit 

all of the people that are in public housing, because they 
: mony. 

autbmatically couldn't afford to rent. 

THE COURT: 2 
5 pleas. 

Well, the term "rent', you apply that as to the ’, 5 

private sector, because public housing is a subsidizing pi a1 
: str: 

form of housing? 
Parkws 

A Well, I have better clear that up. For instance, 
Parkws 

when you take the thirteen thousand figure ...... : 
which 

THE COURT: 

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.d you 

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lA We have here district one which is basically the 

step over here and I will ask you a few questions and you can 

retake the stand for some other questions, please, sir. Take 

the pointer and stand over there so the Judge can see. 

Would you explain to the Court the various recrea- 

tion districts of the éity. 

northern part of the city. This includes the Toulminville   
area, Plateau. It is the area that is one hundred percent | 

black in its composition of playgrounds and neighborhoods chak 

we serve, It goes out -- it also includes the Trinity 

Gardens area and == well, it does come down to Sage and 

Dauphin, but basically it is the area that we refer to as 

district one. 

Q Let 5% interrups you ust one moment, please, 

Mr. Calamettl. This is map number 2-D, which has been 

admitted in evidence previously with Mr. Greenough's testi- 

mony. 

You may continue, then, with the various districts, 

please, sir. 

A District number two is basically the southern 

district that we have. It extends down Dasiin Island 

Parkway. It serves both sides, of course, of Dauphin Island 

Parkway, and does include these facilities at Taylor Park, 

which is Baltimore, the Crawford Park area and the areas around 

      956.    



  

  

Government Street out around the loop area, the area around 

Duval Street and in that particular section of the city. 

District three, this is the western section of 

Mobile and this is the section west of I-65. It is a very 

large district in area, although we do not have too many 

centers out there. This is the area serving the municipal 

park or Langan Park area, Cottage Hill, Springhill and over 

into the area off of the western section of Moffat Road 

out that way. That is three sections of the city, at this 

time. ; 

0 If the clerk would hand me, please, Exhibit 62-A, 

a Defendant's Exhibit. 

You can retake the stand, please, Mr. Calametti, 

Your Honor, Exhibit 62-A was previously introduced when 

Mr. Greenough was testifying. It has the various recreation 

centers and parks broken down by Dr. Voyles's groups and 

by warious wards. 

Mr. Calametti, do you have a copy of Exhibit 62-A? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I will ask you, briefly, Mr. Calametti, in district 

one, which is the northern part of the city, did you compile 

some figures as to the number of facilities, the number of 

personnel and the payroll expenditures? 

A In district one, yes, 

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Q Let me ask you this, Mr. Calametti, did you do so 

at my request yesterday? 

A Yes. 

Q The number of facilities that -- now, let's make   
a distinction, please, sir. You are the recreation director; 

is that correct? | 
| 

| A Right. 

Q You are not the parks' director? 

A No. You have a separate parks depatiuent, | 

Q All right. Would you please, then, outline..... 

THE COURT: 

Tell me the differende. 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

That is what I am trying to do, please, sir. 

What is the difference, Mr. Calametti, between the | 

recreation director and the parks department? | 

A Basically, the recreation department is responsible 

for the programming on the parks and in the centers. The | 

parks department is responsible for the physical facilities, | 

the maintenance, upkeep and that sort of thing. | 

THE COURT: 

Just a minute. 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

Mr. Calametti, at my request, did you compile some 
        268 :   
 



    

  

  

i 1. 

figures as to the number of personnel you have working 

under you and the number of facilities that the recreation 

department is involved in, im the various districts? 

A Yes. 

Q Please, sir, in district number one, how many 

facilities do you have under your supervision? 

A Eleven. 

| Q That is involved in a recreation program of 

| some sort? 

A ‘That's right. 

Q How many full time personnel do you have employed? 

A Well, we have sixty-six personel in that area. 

Q In that area; is that correct? Well, you said 

eleven a minute ago. What do you mean vy leven and now 

| sixty-six? 

| A Eleven facilities, your Honor, and sixty-six persons. 

| THE ‘COURT: 

Fine, 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

So, you have eleven areas where you are operating 

and then you have sixty-six full time personnel working 

for you? 

A They will be full time and part time, counsellor, 

some would be part time. 

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Q Part time would include an individual that might 

come after school? 

A Yes. The athletic program is basically after 

| school from three-thirty to six-thirty and some of the center 

are open until ten o'clock at night and we have some people 

! say working from seven to ten.   Q In district two, how many centers are involved 

in the recreational program? 

A Ten. | 

Q Mr. Calametti, is this in the southern area of | 

the city? | 

A District two, yes. 

THE COURT: 

One is really the northeast and district two is 

the southeast? 

A Yes. 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

In district three, which is the western section 

west of Interstate...... 

THE COURT: : 

You didn't get the number of persons in two. 

MR. BEDSOLE:   
How mahy personnel do you have under your direction 

in district two? 

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  A Forty-two point three. 

Q I believe you have taken your records, Mr. Calamett; 

A Fifty-five. 

Q All right, sir. District three, Mr. Calametti, 

which is basically, I believe, west of I-65;is that correct? 

A Yes. 

Q The number of facilities that are involved in the 

recreation program are what? 

A Six. 

Q How many people do you have working under you in 

district three? 

A About thirty-five. 

Q All right. TI believe that you have made some 

percentage figures on some of these for us at my request, 

did you not? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q | Looking back at district one where we have eleven 

facilities, percentage of the total number of facilities 

tnvelved in the recreation program, what is the percentage 

of the facilities in district one, please, sir? 

A Forty-one percent. 

Q And the number of personnel in district one out 

of all the personnel that you have working in all three 

districts, what is that percentage? 

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10% i Ps 1377 

and compiled some payroll expenditures for me; is that 

  
correct? 

et? | A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, in district number one, which is the northeast 

he | part of the town, what have been your payroll expenditures 

over what period of time, Mr. Calametti? 

A That would be 1974-'75, The figure that we have 

W | here is a hundred and ninety-seven thousand six hundred 

| and fifty dollars. 

: Q All right, sir. 

3 A That is about forty-two percent. 

¥ Q .... -Forty-two percent? 

i A v.-Y@8, 

| Q District two, what were your payroll expenditures 

yon in the year 1974-'7517 : 

A A hundred and sixty-one thousand five hundred 

ve and ten dollars. 

: | Q And in what percentage of that is the total? 

: A About thirty-four point Tout. 

= Q In district three, the western section of town, 

Mr. Calametti, what was your payroll expenditure in that 

area? 

  A A hundred and ten thousand eight hundred and 

forty dollars. 
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2 What was the percentage of that? 

A Twenty-three point six. 

4 All right, sir. Let me ask you this, Mr. Calametti| 

Did you compile any figures as to your year around staff, 

total number, please, sir? 

A Yes. This is full time? 

2 Yes, sir, 

A Full time and then part time, eighty-three. 

Q 4 ANY right, sir. Is that full time or part time? 

A That is both. 

Q Mr. Calametti, I believe you have related to me 

the basic use by school children or youngsters -- of course, 

there are some older people, adults, that use the recreational 

facilities, but basically where is the greatest use of the 

recreational facilities, in what district? 

A One. 

9) And have you been out and visited those various 

recreational facilities? 

A Yes. 

0) Would the population or the school children or 

people that use the recreational facility, what is their 

racial make-up of district one, in your opinion, as you 

observed the program? 

A It is very heavily predominantly black. 

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Q What sort of generally -- what sort of programs 

' do you provide at your recreational facilities? 

A Well, during the winter, it would be -- they have 

play school programs, basically in the morning, when school 

is in session. They have various programs for the housewives   or the adults who are available at that time of day. 

j In the afternoon, before school is out, after 

lunch, then you have other programs for adults or young 

adults who are available to take part, at that time of day, 

and from three-thirty and on when the school is out, then 

the program is, of course, geared for the children between 

then and seven o'clock at night. 

Athletic programs, arts and crafts, music, games,   little tournaments, almost any type of activity they prefer 

  

to have. 

THE COURT: 

Let's take a ten minute break. 

(RECESS) 

THE COURT: 

| All right. You may continue. : | 

MR. BEDSOLE: | 

Mr. Calametti, in order to clear up a matter, the 

figures that you gave me earlier divided by districts, do 

those figures of personnel include people that might be 

      o64:;. 

 



  

  

employed in the summertime? 

A Yes. Those were from 1974 - '75. We have a very 

large number of people that come to work in the summer only. 

Q : Would that be high school students? 

A That could be, and could be a lot of teachers and 

coaches. 

THE COURT: 

Would that be included in the original figures? 

A Yes, sir. 

¢ 1 THE COURT: 

All right. 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

Mr. Calametti, where are, primarily, the facilities 

-- I guess we would call them indoor facilities or gymmasiums 

where are those primarily located? 

A The city has gymmasiums at the playground 

facflities in the Roger Williams housing project. 

] In what district is that located, Mr. Calametti? 

A That is in district one. 

2 All right. 

A They have gyms at the Josephine Allen Ronrtag 

project, which is also in district one. They have one at 

Lesley Busky Center, which is also in district one. 

They have a gym at the Joe Radford Thomas center, 

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which is on Davis Avenue, which is in district one. We have 

a gymnasium at the Springhill Avenue recreational center   
on Springhill Avenue, which is also in District one. We hav 

a gym at the Taylor- Plaza center on Michigan Avenue which i. 

in district two.   
g Q Let me ask you this, Mr. Calametti, to interrupt 

A you a moment. All of these gym facilities, in your 

| opinion, as a recreational director, what race primarily 

uses those gymnasium facilities? 
| 

| A Primarily the blacks. £ 

  

  

Q You may continue. 

A We have another gym at the Harmon recreaticnai 

i | center in Maysville, which is also in district two. 

idk Q Is that predominantly black? 

| A Yes. Those are the only gyms that the city 

| operates. 

'Q Where are the swimming pool facilities located, : i 

t | Mr. Calametti, and in what district ard, if you can indicate, 

| based on your experience as a recreational director, which 

race primarily uses those pools? '   
A Well, we have a pool at Taylor Park, which is on 

Baltimore Street and that is in district two. That is 

predominantly black and there are some whites that use that   | pool. 

| S66 

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1382 
  

We have a pool at the Kidd Playground which is in 

Plateau, Alabama, and that is predominantly black. We have 

a pool at the Joe Radford Thomas center on Davis Avenue 

and that is very predominantly black and we have a pool at 

the Gorgus playground in Toulminville, which is in a predomi- 

nantly black neighborhood, yes. 

9) Mr. Calametti, do you have supervisory personnel...| 

THE COURT: 

Is that all the pools in the city? 

A Yes, sir. 

THE COURT: 

So, all the pools are in black neighborhoods? 

A Yes, sir. 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

Mr. Calametti, then all the pools, publicly 

operated under your recreation department and all the 

gymiasiums are in predominantly black neighborhoods; is 

that correct? 

A Yes, 

MR. BEDSOLE: 

I have no further questions. 

THE COURT: 

You may cross him. 

  

  
    

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to give you an opportunity to point out everything and 

then some things I want to see. 

- MR, ARENDALL: 

Yes, sir. We will make the arrangements. 

i THE COURT: 

Now, I am sure, with reference to remarks that I 

have heretofore made, I am sure that you think you heard 

and think you understood what I said, but I am not always 

sure that you understood what I meant by what I said. Let 

me state that I have not come to any conclusion in this 

case and I make that statement particularly in the light of 

the next statement I am going to make. 

This case was filed in May of last year. 1I beg 

your pardon, June 9th of last year. I have stated that I 

wanted to decide this case together with the county and board 

of education -- the County Commission and try to come out at 

the same time. In the event, and I emphasize again, I have 

not come to a conclusion, but I am concerned about time 

schedules and about time consumed. In the event that I should 

decide for the Plaintiffs, it will be nothing but fair to 

give the Defendants an opportunity to present some plan,- as 

I required by the pre-trial order of the Plaintiffs to give 

and so I would like for the city to have prepared, at the 

time that arguments are made and I would like for them to be 

  

S68



  

1415 
  

furnished not less than two weeks ahead of that time -- I 

ion't have my diary. I believe it is about the 13th of 

Saptember that the County case is set, Then we will say that 

by the Lat of September, Labor Day, comes on the 6th of 

September, by the lst of September I would like for the 

Court to be furnished the City plan or alternate plans and 

furnish it to council for the other side. 

MR. STILL: 

Your Honor, also, if we could present an additional 

plan. As you noticed our plans follow sensus districts, 

I think, in the intervening plan. 

THE COURT: 

You may do ©, but don't inendate me with too 

many. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

Are those plans to be restricted to a division of 

he city or also, for example, to prescribe the suggested 

powers of somebody? | 

THE COURT: 

That is a good question, As I understand it, 

under state statutory provisions, the alternative power in th 

statute, the code section as presented in the last part of 

yours, that the city can change its own form of government, 

isn't that correct, and go to certain mayor aldernman plans 

  

  

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| 1415   
and so forth? 

: MR. STILL: 

Yes, sir. There are certain forms established. 

THE COURT: 

I understand those statutory plans have been referre 

to as a weak mayor council plan. There has been quite a bit 

of testimony as to the undesirability, almost overwhelming 

testimony or almost uncontradicted testimony and what 

concerns me is the details, how much detail we are going to 

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get in. I would say, yes. I would like to have some powers, 

but I would like for us to somewhat follow the wisdom of the 

founding fathers with reference to our constitution as 

contrasted to the 1901 constitution of Alabama, which is so 

i long. 

But, with reference to what has been determined 

a weak mayor council plan and a strong mayor council plan 

| and, don't get into too much detail, yes. I would like for 

that; I am going to set up schedules for plans for both 

parties before trial date in September. Why don't you do 

this, let's keep the dates -- I like to keep everybody under 

the gun and then it gives me time. If you need a little: 

more time to come back and explain, okay. 

| MR. ARENDALL: 

We will do our best to have it by September 1st. 

S70 
      -     
 



  

1417 
  

Does your Honor what any supplemental briefs? 

THE COURT: 

2 will leave that up to you gentlemen. They have 

been well briefed and I have studied your brief. If you 

want to, I am not going to require it. 

You both have extensively briefed it and very ably 

and since I say that to both of you, I don't want you to 

say -- if I ever received a learned trial judge, I knew I 

was reversed, so I don't say that in that sense. I think 

it has been exhaustively briefed. 

If you want to add supplemental briefs, y'all 

can exchange briefs and get those in by the lst of 

September. 

MR. STILL: 

Yes, sir, 

THE COURT: 

4   Any other questions you have to ask me? 

MR. STILL: 

No, sir. I don't believe so. 

MR. ARENDALL: 

You want us to meet at your office with a lawyer 

and an. expert and a van? 

XHE COURT:   
Yes. All right, gentlemen, thank you. i 

  

  

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683 1419 
Plaintiffs Exhibit 5 

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VOTER REGISTRATION 
MOBILE - 1973 

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PREDOMINATELY BLACK WARDS 

  

WARD % BLACK VAP REGISTERED VOTERS 
VAP AS OF JULY 9, 1973 

1 95.3% 1878 963 

2 95.2% 4639 2876 

: 3 95.9% 6679 4558 

10 99.5% 6285 4192 

20 96.0% 1817 1251 

i a 94.77%, 1771 1152 

32 99.9% 2883 1478 

Totals 7 Black Wards 2,5952 ; 16,470 
Black Registered 

Voters 63. 1 

PREDOMINATELY WHITE WARDS 

    
4 2% 2742 2720 

6 2.1% 5685 5035 

15 2.7% 3893 3324 

16 .09% 2167 2077 

17 : .00% 4846 4465 

18 2.1% 6342 6363 

| : 35 4% 2915 2336 

| i 36 08%, 5362 3140 
37 6% 4058 3140 

Totals 9 White Wards 38,010 34,086   
Voters 89.6% 

Sra 

% White 3 gi 

        
 



  

PLAINTIFFS EXHIBIT 6 

VOTER REGISTRATION 
MOBILE COUNTY - 1975 

PREDOMINATELY BLACX WARDS 

  

% White Registered 
' Voters 65.18% 

ARDS % Black POPULATION REGISTERED VOTERS 
MARCH 23, 1976 

33-91-1 917% 12,709 5.584 

33-99-2 3 95.4% 8,664 3,149 

33-99-3 : 90.6% 4,510 1,808 

33-99-4 99.7% 5.536 1,712 

35-103-1 99.5% 8,946 2,784 

Totals 5 Wards 40, 365 15.037 

% Black Registared 
Voters 37.14% 

PREDOMINATELY WHITE WARDS : 

34-100-4 0.6% 7,760 4,631 

34-101-1 0.7% 7.310 3,807 

© 34-101-2 2.6% “4,196 4,177 

34-101-3 0.4% 5,520 4,141 

34-102-3 1.0% 4,244 2,831 

34-102-4 0.3% 2,704 2,052 

34-102-5 0.0% 6,914 4,460 

35-104-4 0.8% SU is.0m 3,330 

Totals 8 Wards 44,677 29,229 

Sources: 7% Black - computed from census data by Anthony Parker. 
Population - computed from census data by J.E. Voyles. 
Registered Voters - taken from official Board of 
Registrars records. 

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i Plaintiffs Exhibit 7 . : 

t 

: VOTER REGISTRATION - MOBILE COUNTY 

-Years- Bute 

1956 1966 1968 1973 19761/ 

i % White Registered 88.4% 947% 89.6% 62.2% 

§ © % Black Registered 14% 48.8% 64% 63.4% 36.5% 

i Difference 39.6% 30% 26.27% 25.7% 

Difference 
i State at Large 36.9% 25.87% 

it 1/ : 
H ~ As a percentage of population rather than voting age population 
FS (VAP) . 

    

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CIIART I 

VOTER REGISTRATION IN MOBILL, 

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Thz ntiltude in iobile County toward Negro suffreoge ‘ 

1:25 heen lzss restrictive thon in some other aveas of Alabama, 

such as rany black belt counties where few, if any, Negroes 

vere registered prior to 1965. An assessment of a kegro's 

Yreedom to register in Mobile is difficult, but it is 

nrobably safe to speculate that, at least since 1965, Negroes 

Ihave been able to register and vote in Mobile with a mini- 

mun of difficulty, 

The latest reliable figures on registration by race 

are those of 10684, since race is not designated on resis- 

tration forms zfter that year. Any projection from 1964 to 

¢nte is Cifficult; the Justice Dopartment estimates are by 

rtate only and are not broken down by county. Luckily. the 

Sovihern Regional Council in Atlanta does publish registra- 

tion fimures by race and by county.” Using these figures 

ond census data projections frcem the Southern Regional Flan 

rinm Cormission, it is possible to project reliable figures 

cn lohile registration by race and by ward, These sare 

rresented in Table I (page L435) and ere reflected in Chart I 

{p2:e 37), which shows the growth of Negro registration in 

Mobile frem 1948 to the prasent. 

Registration is tut one side of the coir, To register 

-~ 

is crix part of the action of voting, and data reveals that 

Lerraes do not exercise the right to vote in as high a per- 

cor ce z= do whites in Mosile. For example, in the 1968 

rrenidenncrl ajaciion, a rrent-danl of el'rtort was nade to get 

Yomrses to tne polls, in an idealistic hope of preventing 

976 

 



  

688 

Wallace, rt Jeust, from receiving a walority in Alabama. 

Tn OL: Seunty, the turnout for Illumphre,; in the black 

waras wns sizeible, as will be discussed in a later section 

of this paver, but the falloff between the vote for presi- 

dent and the vote for congressian was significant, as is 
y 

indicated by Figure I. The fzlloff is even more extra- 

ordinary when one considars that Nobel Beasley, a Negro, wae 

a candidate for Congress on the Rational Derocratic Party of 

abana ticket. 

  

Ficinn 1 

Regro Voter Turhout . = 
1968 Presidential and Coungressicial Races 

Total Presidential Congressional 

Reyisiered Votc Vota 

Ward 1 729 492 163 

.aréd 10 2453 2383 751 

Source:  Qicieln) Coven, Fahmlnk ioe ooo poel enti 

GT Dronlcort in) puri Con arnernil Bees Leloodny ohio CL En Ef Li LR eR Ee a Ln ESR ll LR BIR a 
Count, loan, 147.0. 

  

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64 

H. CT. Price observed the phenomenon of "falloff" in 

black veating across the South, and he suggested some ex- 

planaticns for its occurrence: 

Many whites vote at least partly becausc they 

rcgard it as a duty and as part of being a 
good citizen. Once at the polls, they usually 

take the trouble to indicate a choice in most 

of the contests on the ballot. 'Negroes, how- 

ever, have not been subjected to decades of 

civic exhortation on the virtues of voting per 
se. In fact, their very right of participating 

in elections at all is still politically con- 
troversial even though legally scttled. As a 

result, most Negro vcters go to the polls only 

when there is a contest that presents a choice 

of direct meaning to them. And once in the 

voting booth, lleagro registrants are still auite 

likely to indicate a choice only in the contest 

or contests that have particular interest to 

them.® Pi 

Price's observations scem to be valid in Mobile, and cer- 

tainly falloff and poor turncut dilutes black voting powc:. 

The 1967 tax proposition referendum is another exannle 

«.f the relatively poor turnout in black wards when elections 

of minor attention are held. In the fall of 1967, & tax 

proposition was placed before the citizens of Mobile County 

r} to cstablish a temporary adaitional property tas to support 

  

vps ata ~ 

278 

 



  

690 
74 

the $.T.A.0.D. organization is still alive aki well in 

Nobile, Prosper ine on attention accrued in its stand against 

Lusing. As this is being written, Westbrook has again filed 

to run for a seat on the school board. 

Atso in 1969, the Republican party felt strony. shah 

to demand representation in the county's legislative delc- 

gation. A Xoenl attorney, Bert Nettles, filed for onc of 

two vacant seats in a special 1969 legislative contest. 

1c Democratic party in the county had a candidate who was 

supported by George C. Wallace, Sage Lyons, whom thev wanied 

elected at any cost. Since two black candidates ware fil- 

ing--one for each seat--it was feared that a head-on > 

confrontation between Nettles and Lyons would result in a 

plurality for a black in one of the elections. Thus an 

agreement was reached: Lyons would run for onc place; 

Rettles for the other. In return, the Democratic County 

Comrvittee agreed that Nettles would face no strong opposition 

in his contest. Since this wae a special clection, the Lomo- 

cratic County Committee certified the Domocratie candicilces 

| 

vidhout nrimary elections and could keop their promise rod 

Laorun a cinlicdate against the Republican, Bert Nettles. 

vie? Taig. Lrriacerent, Towever, could act have hoon wade had 

NT 

  

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691 

a sizel.le number of the County Democratic Exccutive Com- 

mittee suzrorted Nettles, Thus, the election of both Nettles 

and Lyons vas insured, 

The voting fell into racial divisions, with Montgomery 

and Bell receiving majorities in each of the black wards. 

It will be noted, however, that Bell ran considerably bahind 

HAL uOAnYY in each of the black regions, indicating the 

strength of Beasley's opposition to his candidacy. Lyons 

ren well ahead oi Kettles in the race, showing especially 

his strength in the leower-iniddle income white wards. But, 

both Lyons and iicttles did quite well in all arcas of the 

city except the black regions, proving it possible for a 

Republican to win a seat in the Alabama legislature, a feat 

dcemed impossible until after 1969.7 

This examination of voting in Mobile reveals that the 

turnout patterns here follow socioeconomic lines in about the 

siune manner as studies in other aveas have revealed. Ucing 

10 
Scamnion's words, "the unblaclk, the unpoor, and the unyouna,® Pp S 

  

9 7 
Ihad. 

JO. - ve am ~ SEED ss Ye - (FAM » | sandr ron and Pon J, Wiktiorowmg, Too Rood 

  

x), Dp, dH=01x 

o80 

 



  

: 118 
692 

. The DPeursen computation again reveals the racial im- 

plication of the voting. A coefficient of -.92 indicates 

an almost perfect negative corrclation of the number of 

Negroes in a ward and the vote for Wallace. The econonic 

Lreakdown is peripherally high at -.43, indicating that 

Wallace did better in the upper-income areas than in the 

poorer wards. This is, however, misleading. When thea black 

wards are removed from consideration, a truer picture is pre- 

sented. A coefficient of .B4 is computed, showing that, in 

the white wards, Wallace did Botear in the lcwor-incore 

arcaz than in the more affluent districts. This is no doubt 

a reflection of the traditional loyalty of tre white nidalo- 

class to the Republican party. In any BTL, lallace go 

overwhelmed his opposition in Mobile that the scattered vote 

for Numphrey and Nixon is virtually meaningless, except in 

the Negro wards, where Rumnhrey did very well. 

Presidential elections in Mobile have gone in the name 

direction as have other elections: race his ercrged as the 

greatest issue. To better dramatize thst proposition, a 

closer look will be given to two hypoliesos: 

v1. Negroes have declined in politic:l power in 

Nobile since th: 10a) 'n, 

o81 

  eo Shh {w
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50 
693 . 

2. in alliance of the "have-nots" against the 
Faves” hat not resulted from larger Hegro 

regyistraticn, as V. 0. Key suggested might 
occur. 

Figure XVil presents a percentage comparison of the 

vote in the Mobile elections discussed above, arranged to 

1 

test the above hypothieses. The percentage difference be- 

tween votes cast for the winning candidates in the lower- 

income black wards and thie lower-income vhite wards is 

indicated. Likewise, this statistic is used to compare the 

votes coast in the P=
 

cw-iriidle income black and vhite wards 

(oinps three and fcvr). Since the income of these Groups 

is relatively the same, 2 high percentage difference will 

shor a voter choice nude on the basis of race, rather thon 

CCONCRicCS. 

Hypothesis two is difficult vo teat, since the re- 

lationship between racial couposition of the wards and 

econonic level of the area is so closely aligned in Mobile. 

Figure XVIII, however, presents a conpariscn of vote betwaen 

the lower-incoure viite wirds and thi: higher-income white >.
 

2
 

rd, By eliminating black wards “rom consideration, the 

inilvence of race as a factor in tho cueperizon is held al 

iy inone, The vliatdet os wrerenion: tv Figura YVIT support 

pier einen otearal  Lirenath hos docyontied 

 



  

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La
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  SR EA Ry RR A Cer AS 

  

FIGU 

Cemparison of Black/White Voting in Selecteé Economic Groups 

  

Low White 

53.30 

68.30 

59.10 

54.31 

64.28 

53.31 

46.41 

45.04 

46.56 

43.29 

49.75 

82.60 

53.563 

56.51 

87.15 

33.58 

45.70 

43.90 

l.ow=-Mid Black 

47.50 

60.10 

53.30 

55.24 

75.22 

52.1% 

91.30 

22.5 

31.44 

87.438 

12.30 

27.00 

5.51 

19.11 

283.17 

82.19 

37.313 

36.00 

3.71) 

1.24 

Low-Mid White 

48.67 

67.37 

51.46 

65.64 

84.869 

30.24 
. 55.67 
53.26 

45.73 

51.02 

78.90 

65.85 

4.12 

81.40 

79.82 

“54.21 

52.861 

54.14 

73.03 

  

  

Go RAR RI SOR SAAT Le SR SR AC 

¥6
9 

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Source: 

  

AER Se SAR Hp 

FIGURE XVI: (continued) 

BSrroentogon ol Yinnars 
  

Low Black Low White Pifs. Low-Mid Black Low=Mid White DifZ=, 

80.96 78.60 2.36 80.50 78.42 2.08 

43.74 49.CO 5.26 39.40 55.18 ¥5.378 

45.73 51.10 3.37 42.29 58.37 15.17 

73.26 57.15 Ne. ll 58.90 53.27 5.63 

9.31) 84.60 edd 3.01 75.91 74.90 

8.10 85.80 77.70 1.13 74.90 73.77 

Prohate Court Records 

[= 
N 
- 

rN BAAN AE 3 RE AR RT IW AT PRL 

 



  

122 

since the 1230's. The obzcervation is clear: with the ex- 

ception of city commissioner Joseph Langan, no candidate who 

has won a majority in the black wards of Mobile has also 

carried a majority in the entire city since 1960. As the 

Figure indicates, before 1950, the difference between black 
’ 

and white voter choice is not greatly significant in most 

races when eoengiie level is held constant. While the Blac 

vote was Siohrerubionatoly small compared to the nuader of 

Negroes residing in Mobile, their votes vere often important 

enouyin Lu be suugi:t. Since 19606, this bax not been crue; 

identification with the black wards is the "kiss of death” 

for an cffice-scoier in Mobile, The blatk voters constitute 

such a visible and emotional issue to Mobile's white voters 

that any identification with blacks in Mobile will produce 

a rcaction by vhite Vilas. nid defcat the black-supported 

candidate. Thus, while the nunbers of blacks voting has in- 

creased, the relative importance of the blac) volte is less 

thin befcre the civil rights movement of the 1950's. 

Race is pori.aps the reuson that there is little devi- 
| 

ation in veting Lov whites regardless of econonic level in the 

IE SE SEY rR IE A be 1 SEINE BL Bi + ied 101 2 Ur RY cam rrivon of tho 

vote hoyn-on the lowent incosa and the highest incon vhite 

A
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4 CT mate 7 / 4 A     

PR Phe Foy IPT IR Fs NOV PAT AW NAN UR RO 
* an. yy pia Cds J 

  

   rE per) Bae zs Cs 

FIGURE XVIII 

Comparison of Low/High Income White Wards in Mobile Voting 

  

airy - Bercentagss of Winners 

City Cormission : Low White High White Diff, 

193; ‘lace Ona (Finance) 53.30 52.40 99 
SH onwy orks 68.30 65.80 2.50 

Three (Pclice) 59.10 53.15 3.25 

1957 i‘iace One 54.31 51.13 3.18 
Place TO 64.338 66.83 2.45 
Place Trhroo 52.31 33.41 13.20 

19451 Place Onno 46.41 51.062 5.21 
r 710 456.04 63.14 17.10 

Three 46,56 61.75 15.12 

L6
9 

ons. 43.29 44.63 1.34 1653 place 

3 Place Two ‘49,75 . 54.70 4.95 
Place Three 83.60 73.86 3.74 

1969 lace Cre 53.53 50.78 2.85 
Place Two 56.91 . : 56.20 +0) 
Place Three 87.15 74.13 12.02 

Gubernatorial [9] 

1934 83.58 77.84 5.74 

N 
Ww 

 



  

Tlact ic 

Culavnainrin 

1938 

(0
) 

oy
 

On
 

/ FIGURE XVIII (continued) 

  

Porcentages of Winners 

Low White High White Difs. 

45.70 39.12 13.42 

43.90 40.20 3.00 

61.05 52.11 : 8.94 

856.31 ¢8.98 17.33 

78.60 75.25 3.35 

49.00 53.40 4.40 

51.10 55.60 4.50 

57.13 39.06 28.09 

34.60 73.14 11.46 

85.80 67.16 18.64 

Probate Court Records 

EE SN Tp = Fr ARI AIRED TT TE ATM Nb YORI MNT TT BRET —— 
  

  

  

       



699 

125    
R
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wards. Thz figures presented here indicate that there is 

no major Cifference in voting patterns between low and high 

income wiiite arcas in Mobile. 

4 
S
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N
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Except for the 1957 and 1961 city commission races for 
N 

Place Three (Public Works Commissioner), and the 1964 Place 

Two (Police Commissioner) race, there have been no major 

ss 
BR

 
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1 

differences in voting between the groups in city conmission 

races. Both of thesc races involved Commissioner Hackmeyer,   
who, as previously mentiened, attempted a low-income black 

and low-income white alliance. He was successful, as figures 

indicate, in gaining support from this alliance, but it did 

not produce enough votes to keep him in office after the 

1957-1951 term. 

The 1961 Police Commissioner race (Place Two) also 

shnws some variation between groups (17.10 percent). This 

/ 

can most likely be explained by the candidacy of McNally, a 

Republican, who drew disproportionate strength from the tra- 

  

ditional Republican arcas--the upper-income wards. After 

1961, the local elections show no major difference in white 

wards of high or low income. 7This indicates that the choice 

| of voters was determined by something other than economics. 

o853     

   



  

700 126 

J 

The gubernatorial and presidential contests show little 

aifforcroa in economic level after 1960. True, the Democratic 

ticket in 1960 (Kennedy) and in 1968 (Wallace) did fare beiter 

in the low-income white wards than in the upper-income white 

areas, but this can.be explained by the traditional support 

for the Republican presidential candidate in these areas. 

The 17.33 percent difference in the 1970 gubernatorial pri- 

mary is due probably to the Wallace appeal to race, which 

had more support in the-low-income arcacz thinn in the high. 

But, even in the upper-income areas, Wallace won a landslide 

68.98 percent of the popular vote. 

Thus, this examination of the voie reo cals that an 

8 
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  alliance of the "have-nots," cutting facrosc racial lines, 

against the "haves" has not materialized in Mobile, nor is 

one likely. Likewise, the position of the black vote in 

Mobile is becoming more and more tenuous. Presently, 

identification with the black vote spells cxfeet for any 

candidate ir. Mobile. In practical terms, this mcons that 

blacks have less influance than they had before the 1960's, 

and that candidates for office are able tho Ignore black 

interests and still be clected., It 3s ironic that the 

089 

  

  
  

  
   



127 

5
 

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+ 

civil ri ts movement--vhich intended to increase black 

political power in the South--has had the reverse effect in 

Fobile. 

k
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290 

    
   



  

CITY COMMISSION 

includes thane tests 

Voyles Pearsons ¢ 

1953 1. Langan 2. Luscher Sr. 
Income 38 52 
Race 41 . 69 

1957 1. Langan 2. Luscher Sr. 
Income .6 .89 
Race .38 

1961 : Langan 2. McNally 
Income 3 .43 
Race J1 .81 

1965 ; Laggan 2. Mims 
Income 4 .93 
Race .93 .96 

1969 1. Lengan 2. Mims 
Income : .90 
Race 35 

1973 1. Greenough/Bailey 
Race .79 

Ld 4+ Roca vests 
Regreesion - thenumbers are circled on the chart. of 

1963 Wo. Candidate 

1 Langan 
2 Mims 
3 Outlaw 
1 Langan 
2 Luscher 

1969 
1 Langan 
2 Luscher 
3 BoTLa cme -off) 
1 Bail 

1973 . 
1 Bailey (run-off) 

Smith 
Taylor 
Albert 

1 Greenough 

Referendum 

1963 

1973 

School Roard 

1970 Jacobs (runoff) 
Jacobs ( 

1972 Koffer ( " ) 
1974 Gill (runoff) 

Bg LY 
Fleintiffe Exhibit $3 

3. Hackneyer 
41 

-34 

3. Rackneyer 
.84 
.25 

3. Trimerier 
.81 
.82 

3 Outlaw v 

.43 

.92 

3. Doyle 
.41 
.87 

2. Mims 
71 

Data Base 

Ours 
Qurs 
Ours - 
Voyles 
Foytes Oars 

Ours 
Ours 
Ours 
Voyles 

Ours 
Ours 
Curs 
Ours 
Voyles 

Our 
Voyles 1960 Data 

Clarence Montgomery - legislative race 1969 not included - race 
tested at .85 

021 

a
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i COUNTY COMMISSION 

Regression Candidate Coef. Data Base 

& 1968 : 

: All Wards 1 Yeager 46 Ours - Cen.Elec. 

1" 2 Smith AT " " 

" 3 Stevens .06 n x 

City Wards 1 Yeager +51 i ” 

3 2 Smith . 10% " y 

" 3 Stevens .08 » » 

1 All Wards '68 Run-off 1 Yeager .78 Voyles Primary 

] 
”" ” ”" 2 Smith .13 ” " 

i " v i" 3 Stevens .90 ” » 

E 1972 

: All Wards 1 Yeager .31 Ours Gen.Elec. 

: " 2 Smith .83 " » 

3 "” 3 Haas .81 n n 

3 City Wards 1 Yeager a3 " n 

# Tey 2 Smith .84 vi " 

£ o 3 Haas .82 “ x 

3 All Wards Langan .85 Voyles Primary 

§ " Mrs. Stevens .33 : " 

: " Capps .66 " . 

i 
8 

Additional School Board Races 

§ 1962 t Run-off Goode .83 Voyles 

¥ 1966 Run-off Russell .95 Voyles 

   * Testing Income 

092 

f
a
 

    

 



704 

    

JOHN LeFLCRE GERRE KOFFLER 

» WHO WILL RUN YOUR SCHOOLS? 

GERRE KOFFLER FACTS: 
RUNNING FOR PLACE NO. 3, SCHOOL BOARD COMMISSION, MAY 30th. 

i 1. SIGNED AGREEMENT WITH NAACP TO ACHIEVE TOTAL 
! INTEGRATION WITH TOTAL BUSING. 

2. VERY ACTIVE IN THE MILITANT ORGANIZATIONS ACT, NAACP, 
NOW, NON-PARTISAN VOTERS LEAGUE, LEAGUE OF WOMEN 

VOTERS. 

3. HAS ENTERTAINED BLACKS IN HER HOME. 

4. HAS BEEN SEEN AND PHOTOGRAPHED IN COMPANY OF BLACK 
MALES. 

5. UNDER INSTRUCTION OF ALBERT J. FOLEY IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS 
SCHOOL CURRENTLY. 

6. POLLED 92% OF BLACK VOTE IN MAY 2, PRIMARY. 

MAY 2 BLOCK VOTE 
  

  

WARDS Koffler Sessions Langan , McConnell 

3 

Ww STANTON ROAD "8 170 1,071 49 

10 
DAVIS AVE. 529 123 | 820 87 

31 
PLATEAU 270 2 282 10 

32 
* TRINITY GARDENS             

PLEASE VOTE FAY 30 
OFFICIAL C.B. 1. REPORT DATE LINED MOBILE, ALA. 

£QN 
eras LY 

    

    

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i HT iT i Ne iE yh 

    

  

Reg ce STAM TH A] Te) Ce AAD LB CE RAT md oN RA TD WV pre ———— wre 

  

REMEMBER...it takes only a simple plurality to win. 

BLACK TUESDAY 
«**" THE CHOICE IS YOURS 

A These people seek to destroy George Wallace and the Wallace Team 

  

  

      

  

    

     

    

Bill Sellers-The State Of Politics Mode, Sunder, Mey 14, 1970 Press Register—3-A 

Wallace Popularity Assessec 
  

   

were 
ident, many others hers in big flops. 

- Alabama feel he will have a 
|) Gifficukt time winning another Wallace insiders report that 

% or ts 1974, be is having a rough lime try- 
Sm". ing to raisy momey in ether oe 

The latier assessment is iales and is herefers Raving ; 
" based om some recent signe of W lun wavly W Alsfans The third 
] a Wallace popularity siippage, for the f suns aoeded P 

coupled with an aimost cere !o keep his chow on the read. on phn 
SHIN ANIL 4 So nu 4 Sonia of the Wallace fund 

sext gw gamarating 
barnatorial campaign. Thigers ag some fl iy 

Sen. The = wag larly 
Wide be when With contributors Bat © 
fund-raising dincers ware heid Sees with a vu 

aR esd 
gomery. Several handred tich- Wallace jeavis; state 
ois were sold la Mobile and aeglected f 
shout $909 to $7200 was sppeintment lo 
raised for the Wallace cam- These made by the 
peigs, according lo sewrces loud Alabama. 

  

WAS IT MCN’ OR PROMISES THAT SECURED THIS BLOC YOTE? 
BEAT THE BLOC! You: ind the Choice is Yours! Don’t Vote and the Choice is Theirs! 

FA ADV. SY Chum } we SOTRIN, (homed, 

x) 

 



  

  

  
  

   

  

HARRY © 
MCCONNELL 
|S CONCERNED 
WITH ISSUES, 
NOT RECORDS, 
ts. 15 

SPEAKING OF RECORDS . 
- oo. i mi Hl ALE Fag 
fLangan favors ot least 40 A rs arty ‘tax on 

* all County property. Langan said, "However, 
  

  

{just 40% tax would bei enough- wo Ee 

fred dy at 2 : 7h + (Mobile Pros ond Regierer, April 22, 19441 
; RS, ps ae 
“Langan received following votes in the pre- 

~-dominately black words. Sa 

: LANDAN MeCONNELL 

ls WARD 1 (Stimrod Rd) «o.oov.... 250 13 
5 WARD 2 (Toulminville) ....... a ; 55 

I WARD 3 (Stanton Rd.) sire ente JO7Y. 4» 
an opened ro 220 87 

+ WARD 20 (Harmon Park Belfast) ei. 340 10. 
WARD n (Mobile Co. Training- 

tse PINAY) aes icenrvsene 282 10 

“+ «WARD 32 (Trinity Gardens) . ....... Kop) | 
ne =m PCT, 11 (Shepard Loke) ov. iv. 98 8 

A. re 3738 270 
"". PERCENT OF VOTE (93.2) (6.3) 

"*% rom official Mobile Cownty Democratic Primary Convoss signed by Jeii C. 

Mims, Chairman of Mobis County Democranc Exacwhve Commireel 

Longan was a City Commissioner the last 

time YOUR city soles tax was raised. 
: 3 [October |, 19633 

be Y 

BELIEVE ALL THE PROMISES YOU WANT 

THESE ARE THE FACTS! 
ON MAY 10...VOTE TO PROMOTE McCONNELL 

. PLACE 3 MOBILE COUNTY COMMISSION 
PD. POL ADY. BY GEORGE A. TOUIMIN, MOBILE, ALA. 

  

  

  

  

  

  

295 

  
 



 
 

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  711 

  

   

  

   
      

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sREPT LANTERNS 1h 
§ DO ESNETRH A | 

    

    

    

  
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PEN AG) 
  

  

     

    
   

  

Oviltd . 

Std 

  
Ath BLACK AnD 
10 S10P.11.     

  

  

    
    

  
    

  

  
  

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    sch Lica Si 
Las ST AISS pig 1954-1969 > ? Mores By Langan To Mobile Housing Baord 

T THIS PAIR RUN | 
NOTHER 4 YEARS? - th a 25d ALY ties 

DBI EERANKS HH AMO Ti NATION'S CITIES IN MORTGAGE FORECLOSURES, 
13 BANKR BICY:PROCEEDINGS, DEBT AND CRIME AND ARSON RATE! Pik host 1S THAY PROGRESS? : 

Yr dc 

CHANGE. Ji: eran GET BEHIND oB Al LEY: FOR NEW LEADERSHIP & REAL PROGRE SS 
AMF Mera RIL re i mae wae 3 c 

Ae, 

  

    
    
  

    

  

       

  

    
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098 : 

—
—
—
—
—
   

 



  

3714 

JOE LANGAN'S EPISTLE TO THE VOTERS OF WARD 10 

"Then the voters were herded into the voting booths to be counted, the blind, 

the mutes, the dead, and the illitrates. And lo, 99% bore the brand of 
Joe Langan." 

Then the FAITHFUL REJOICED. And they swarmed in the recreation center holding 

their Ward Tabulations aloft and crying out in a loud voice. "See how I 

delivered my ward." There is no Commissioner but Joe langan and my cousin, 

Teddy, is his president.” 

The results were confirmed and the computers had ceased to compute, the h 

politicians started forth on their pilgrimage to the Avenue... to veceive 
the blessings of the chief politician and to pluck the sacred fruit of the 
tree of patronage. . 

But when they arrived they found Joe sitting disconsolately on a mountain of 
morning papers. And the music was stilled, no songs filled the air, and only 

the mournful howl of a few was heard in the land. 

Then the ward heelers drew around apd questioned him saying, "Wherefore art 

thou sad? Thou has overwhelmed thine enemies, yea even unto 99 percent in 

the colored wards. 

But General Joe answered them saying, "BUT WHAT OF THE 17 WHO AMONG YOII HAVING 

LOST A SHEEP FROM HIS FLOCK, does not leave the 99 and go in search of the one 

that is lost, 

Then Mr. !=tro spoke in the voice of thunder saying,”I shall build my cousins 

Creat Socisty fn which there will be no percentages, no poverty, and no vehicle 

inspection stations, but possibly a 200. : 

Where the humblest citizens will have the same opportunities as Mr. Bill Crane, 

and Mr. Floyd Pate. Where the last ghall be first, and the first shall be 

first and all others before and after him shall be first and Mobile County shall 

have 50 parks, 300 fire stations, 10 thousand miles of streets, 20 libraries, 6 

tunnels, and 10 airports, and we shall receive 200 million dollars in poverty 

funds from my cousin, Teddy. WE SHALL EMBRACE ALL MEN AND WOMEN, BLACK OR 

WHITE, REGARDLESS OF PREVIOUS POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS." 

But the ward heelers murmured against him for they feared if all partook, the 

Pork Barrel would soon be empty and they might be forced to help pay for the 

filling of it again, Then Mr. Metre knowing rheir thoughts, spoke to them 

saying, "OH, YE OF LITTLE FAITH, did ] not cause the NAACP to lie down with 

the SILK STOCKING WARDS? Pid I not eenvince the pedple of Mobile County that 

my TAX AND SPEND POLICY is the best way to balance the hudget and not add any 

NEW TAXES and yet still have more PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS. All these miracles 

of PROGRESS I have perfprmed and YET YOU STILL DOUBT? COME LET US REASON 

TOGETHFR OR ELSE!!!! 

293 

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J REGIS THR 
d the Nation Since 1813 
INLAND. ALA |. FRIDAY MORNING. JUNE 25, 1976 

{ Numerous cross 
~ burnings spread 

10c DAILY. 80c WEEKLY. PLUS TAX 
  

  

across Coast area 
A rash of cross burnings Wednesday 

night in predominantly black 
noighborhoods from Mobile to Pen 
sacola. Fla. brought a promise from 
Baldwin County Sheriff Thomas 
"Buck" Benton “to stop it one way or 
another 

“Burning crosses is the most 
cowardly thing | know of— | just 
deplore it,” Benton said, adding, "J 
plan to take some action.” He added 
that anyone caught burning crosses in 
Baldwin County would be prosecuted 

State Troopers reported at least 25 
crosses were sel alire mn the two 
southernmost Alabama counties 
Mcanwhile, at least seven crosses 
were reported bummed in Escambia 
County, Fla. in front of black churches 
and organizations. 

The Escambia County burnings 
came within hours of a school board 
decision relating to the mckname for 
“acially-troubled Ewambia County 
High School 

Henton said one inc ident also involv- 
rd <hots being fired into the air, and 
0): cross was burmed mn front of the 
home of a white family living in a 
predominantly black neighborhood 

Henton said he wa unsure whether 
ar not the Ku Klux Kian was involved 
in the cross burnings, but he said the 
incidents were apparently a “show of 
strength’ by some elements in the 
area 

Nn arresicx or injuries were 
reported Officials sard they are 
hampered because there 1s no law 
prohibiting cros: burmings in 
Alabama 

Most of the crosses, reportedly four 
in hive fect tall. were wrapped in 
burlap and douxed with kerosene 
before they were set ablaze 

Reports placed the burnings at 
Fairhope. Tensaw, Whitehouse Forks, 
t'rossroads, Clay City, Marlowe 
Foley, Beulan Heights. Magnolia 

Springs and Mullet Point Park in 
Baldwin County. Mullet Pmnt 1s an 
F.istern Shore public heach papular 
among Baldwin's bla ke 

Mobile police said one cross was 
hurned on Avenue A off Cottage Hill 
Road in front of a black man’s house. 

In Pensacola. targets included 
churches, schools, offices of the 
Southern Christian Leadership 
Conference(SCLC), the studios of 
television station WEAR-TV, and the 
home of a WEAR reporter. 

The reporter, Ken Larson, and a 
black cameraman were reportedly 
refused admission to 2 Ku Klux Klan 
meeting recently 

Earlier Wednesday, the Escambia 
County School Board ruled it could 
change the nickname or symbol of the 
high school if it felt such action would 
be in the public interest. Once the 
name or symbol was adopted. only the 
«hool board could change it. 

The school nickname first was an 
1ssue in 1975 when black students ob- 
jected to the name Rebels and the 
Unniederate Mag as the school symbol. 
A federal judge's order banning the 
name was appealed by the school 
hoard, and racial disturbances ensued 
wn the arca 

Meanwhile, students voted fo 
change the name to Raiders, which 
stuck until an appellate court over- 
turned the original ban. Another stu- 
dent vote retained the name Raiders, 
but racial disturbances which follow- 
ed injured several students 

_ The school buard. in emergency ac- 
tion, changed the name to Patnots m 
March, and the decision Wednesday 
solidified that chioce of nicknames 

e Brooks, an SCLC spokesman 
in Atlanta, called Pensacola “one of 
the most racist cities in America’ and 
claimed that local officials condoned 
the cross burnings 

“It's a tragedy that this kind of 
thing would go on in 1976. and the only 
group I've ever known to burn crosses 
1s the Ku Klux Klan,” Brooks said 

A Klan spokesman denied any ad- 
vance knowledie of the cross bur- 
nings 

Ihe Southern Christian Leadership 
Conference asked for an FHI] 
investigation of the cross-burning 
Wednesday in front of the civil rights 
group's office in Pensacola 
“We consider this act a blatant 

attempt by racists in Pensacola and 
Escambia County to intimidate and 
harass our chapter officials and the 
black community,” SCLC presicent 
Ralph Abernathy said in Atlanta in a 
telegram sent Thursday to US Auty. 
Gen. Edward Levi. 

Brooks said Pensacola SCLC 
chapter president FL Henderson saw 
three white men setting fire to a cross 
as Henderson approached the 
building. but the men fled before he 
got there 

 



      

CY TY 

COMMITTEES 10
9 PLAINUIVFS' EXKIIBIT 

  

Plaintiffs Exhibit 64 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

  

  
    

          
  

Total Total Prior Prior Black . 
Black Members; Mcombers Mambers 

1 | BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT % 1 7 9 0 

2 | AIR CONDITIONING BOARD -T' 0 5 2 

3| ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD 0 5 6 9 

4 | AUDITORIUM BOARD 13 12 9 2 

5 ! voBILE BEAUTIFICATION BOARD nh 3 28 17 0 

6 | MOBILE BI-CENTENNIAL COMMUNITY COMMITTEE 3 46 0 0 

7 | CENTER CITY DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY 5 0 1! 0 0 

8 | BOARD OF EXAMINING ENGINEERS 0 3 0 0 

9 | BOARD OF ELECTRICAL EXAMINERS 0 4 3 0 
10 | CITIZENS ADVISORY GROUP FOR THE MASS TRANSIT TECHNICAL STUDY afl og 8 0 0 

11 | CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE - DONALD-CONGRESS, LAWRENCE ST. & THREE MILE i 
CREEK FREEWAY . = 11 15 0 0 

1° | CODES ADVISORY COMMITTEE 0 17 0 0 

13 | COMMISSION ON PROGRESS : 9 21 0 0 

14 | EDUCATIONAL BUILDING AUTHORITY, INC. 0 3 0 0 
15 | MOBILE AREA PUB HIGHER EDUCATION FOUNDATION INC. 0 6 0 0 

16 | FINE ARTS MUSEUM OF THE SOUTH AT MOBILE 1 21 20 1 

17 | FORT CONDE PLAZA DZVELOPMENT AUTHORITY 0 4 1 0 

18 | MOBILE HISTORIC DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION 0 52 61 0 

19 | INDEPENDENCE DAY CELEBRATION COMMITTEE : 1 “ 14 0 0 

| : 

‘ 

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CITY 

COMMITTEES 2 
  

  

  

  

20 

21 

22 

2r 
24 

25 

26 

27 

28 

29 

30 

k} | 

32 

33 

34 

3s 

36 

37 

38 

4 3 J 

INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT BOARD gl 

MALAGA DAY COMMITTEE fuer! Nat 

MOBILE HOUSING BOARD *~ © 

) MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - PSYCHIATRIC ~~ 

“a 
MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - TRANQUILAIRE vf 

PORT CITY MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD 

MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - SPRINGHILL 

MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD OF THE CITY OF MOBILE 

MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD - SECOND 

MOBILE MEDICAL CLINIC BOARD 

MOBILE LIBRARY BOARD 

g © 

GREATER MOBILE MENTAL HEALTH-RETARDATION BOARD 

t 
PIER AND MARINA COMMITTEE ~~~ p=" 

go 
MOBILE PLANNING COMMISSION --% 

POLICEMEN AND PIREPIGHTERS PENSION AND RELIEF FUND BOARD 

bows? 
MOBILE TREE COMMISSION 

AS 

NEIGHBORROOD IMPROVEMENT COUNCIL 

PLUMBERS EXAMINING BOARD : ~~ 

RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD ‘ * ..   
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COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Total 
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15 

29 

22 

  

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PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT 

  

  
  

  
  

  

        

op CITY 
¥ COMMITTERS COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Co . Total Total Prior Prior Bla 
Black Members Members Mamhers 

1 s 0 0 
39 SOUTH ALABAMA REGIONAL PLANNING oS 

aC, [ 
/i 

40 BOARD OF WATER & SEWER COMMISSIONERS ~*~ 3 5 7 0” 

41 EMPLOYEES INSURANCE ADVISORY BOARD zy 0 10 0 0 

> 
- 

42 | MOBILE COUNTY HOSPITAL BOARD ~~ 1 3 0 0 

a 

43 FRANK S. KEELER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL el 0 2 0 0 

44 | ARTS HALL OF FAME COMMITTEE ot 0 1 0 0 
» 

vr 

45 PUBLIC EDUCATION BUILDING AUTHORITY | 0 3 0 0 

46 | EDUCATIONAL BOARD ¢ -~* 0 9 0 G 

TOTALS 47 461 179 6 
> 5 

= ’ 
3 av 

SUMMARY: =~ 10.1% of present appointments are black. - 
- =~ B.2% of all appointments to active committees are black. 12 

- 7.5% of all appointments to active and inactive committees are black. 

- If 2 committees, numbers 11 and 13, are excluded the other 44 active 

committees have 6.32 black members. 
- 29 of 46 committees (63%) have no blacks. 
~ Only 3 of 46 committees, numbers 4, 11 and 13, have blacks as 25% or 

more of their membership. 

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PU el ne Pe   PHA gi nel 
  

  

  

  

PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT rp ———————— 

  

Vo RSL INACTIVE COMMITTEZE MEMBERS 

Total Total Prior ‘Prior Black 
Black Members Members : 

A | AMBULANCE ADVISORY comMITTER 0 5 0 0 

B | ANIMAL SHELTER BORD 0 ) 0 0 

C | CHILDREN'S THEATR: ADVISORY COMMISSION 0 9 0 0 

D | MAYOR'S COMMITTEE ON RECIPROCAL SWITCHING 0 6 0 0 

BR / MOBILE AiRPORT PLANNING ADVISORY COMMITTEE 5 120 0 0 

: P | MOBILE COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT PLANNING AGENCY SUPERVISORY BOARD 0 2 0 0 

G | MOBILE INSURANCE ADVISORY BOARD 0 12 0 0 

~J 

: a. 
TOTAL 5 163 0 0 0 

              
 



  

891 

  

PN | TW Tuk 3 ¥ pi ’ 
. . ae . fone © B : * . ¢ . Fo : 7 SR . A pi os 3 

IN THE cIrcuzT cour OF oe X: ‘spECIAL REPORT! ‘oF THE. ht 

MOBILE county, ALABAMA or Y. MARCH, - APRIL, 1976 

i i GRAND JURY oF’ ‘HOBILE ‘County’ 
Aa 

  

We the March’ - - hertl, 1976 Grand Jury of 1 Mobile 

county, Alabama, after having been recalled ‘specially to’ 

consider evidence gathered by the Mobile county. District 

‘Hetorney’ s office regarding eight ®)’ City of! Mobile 5 

Policemen and Glenn L. ‘Diamond, do hereby submit to the court 

our special 'Yeport and band to the Court 1 {ndictments. 

. On April 224 - 1976, this Grand Jury was ‘called into 

session by the Honorable Robert t. ;Hodnette; Circuit Fudge, 

and ordered to report. on April 23, i976 at 10: 00. A.M. 

"At that time Judge Hodnette instructed this Grand Judy -   
£1; consider and delve into evidence ‘presented to us by 

the Mobile County District Attorney. The plateice Attorney 

has presented to us the result of a diligent and honest 

investigation into the facts and circumstances surrounding 

" the incident. After carefully and conscientiously considering’ 

  

all of the evidence from Glenn L. Diamond, his companions 

and the accused police officers, we feel compelled and have 

the responsibility to make certain observations, suggestions, 

and recommendations to the Courts and'to the governing body 

of the City of Mobile, particulary the Mobile City Police 4 
SA, 4 

Department. : righ Ll, i 
:   The law abiding citizens of this community cannot 

condone the event which erzupted on the night of March 

28, 1976. We feel that in these dave and times where 

crime runs rampant a strong, tough approach must be taken 

to asprénend ths criminal eletent. Equally thbortant 

la? enforcement officers must deal with the criminal 

in a professional manner. 

€0o 
   



892 

ve. want to ma it clear’ that we feel’ the ‘the *, 3 
oN ATELY CURT IL ani EE 

: vast majority of our! county" s daw enforcement ‘officers’ > 
. H FR -¥" 

s JER ; : dedicate their lives to professional and conscientious 

work in protecting our’ ‘citizen’ 8 ives, and property. | 51 

F
R
 

. This incident An our’ opinion represents the ‘deeds of aa 

a Yery small, small group of men who exceded their 

Tawtul authority. ‘and. ‘acted in a. totally. trresponsible Ga 

‘manner. They not only did not uphold the Law but ei 

: & apparently violated fhe very law that “they swore to uphold. 

This incident shoula not. reflect An any; manner on all of i 
he ry 0 

t: Taw enforcement. As ‘a matter of: fact, we Jagatn recognize 
Vey woe 

[ana commend the overvhelning majorite ot our aw enforcement AY
 
R
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officers. The activities which occurred on the night of. March 
3 Tm *% Tart 

Fas, 1976, have. stained ‘the very uniform. of Conscientious   LR 

law, Snforcement officers. our’ Communi ty mist, not - let: these 

; acts An any vay affect their codpuration ad support. of 

  

law enforcement. Thy. 

. “We. feel that the gone public should realise “that 

the men charged are not supervisors.’ They are patrolmen 

  

out on the beat. We heard evidence’ from both the victim and 

&: nonbee’ of the, “\ accused police officers. The officer's 

' 3 tnaicates to us that their illegal actions were 

not random, spur of the moment acts ‘taken in violation of 

: their supervisor’ 8 orders. On the contrary; these men 

Rk have indicated to us that their supervisors not only accepted   but urged these patrolmen to commit these improper, irresponsible 

acts. We feel these few policemen would not have followed i 

© this {rresporaible course of action ‘had they not been : 

encouraged and at times compelled to commit the assault by 

certain very few supervisory offiers. Although we the Grand 

Jury feel that this unfortunate supervisory problem cannot 

excuse individual illegal misconduct, we feel that these officers 
hd . ] . 

. would not have engaged in these activities if their supervisory 

 



  

893 

To solve this deplorable situation and. to insure that 

future illegal acts ‘do not occur, we recommend and urge 

that the city Commission thoroughly investigate the 

police department, particulary the patrol division. This 

investigation should be made by officers who are charged 

with one duty: to seek the truth, b 

Also, we heard testimony from the accused officers 

that many supervisory vacancies exist. They must be filled 

by qualified, dedicated law enforcement personnel. For that 

reason, we suggest that- the City of Mobile request the 

Mobile County Personnel Board to aininiotad: the appropriate 

examinations and to hire .0xr promote the most: qualified 

individuals. to ‘the available Jobs. Possibly ‘better supervision 

Fond have prevented ‘the actions of these’ few men on "that : 

fe: particilar: hight.: ga od tion 

vy a grand Jury we are well aware that our dity is not 

only to indict the guilty but also. to exonerate the innocent. 

After hearing’ all the "evidence r. we believe that three of 

the suspended patrolmen are svdely not guilty. These men 

were not involved in this anfortunate event. They wets 

victims of circumstance. _ They not only did not participate 

in it bist they reported the incident to thats supervisors. 

Therefore we recommend that the city Commission end their 

suspension and reinstate. them as patrolmen. Also we believe 

hey should recede » back pay to cover the period during which 

they were ‘suspendsa.. ; 
i . 

As “the Grand’ Jury , we are charged v with the Quty of 
Ya wg. 

considering all the evidence. We feel we have put aside all 

preconceptions we had while considering this evidence. 
ny ord : ,. Wis eh 

Furthermore | “we mist, say that this case constituted the 
GLE Teg a % 

. bar, 30 =. 

most, trying : and alegicue days of our term as Grand Jurors. 

: i } 07 : ie 

as ~. . ra ’ " 

  
  

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tc 

 



Finally we wish to commend the District Attorney and his 

: staff for taking the sift, immediate, and decisive action 

to honestly and objectively uncover, develop and present 

the hard cold facts. 

We wish now to be put into recess until recalled by . 

this Court or until another Grand Jury is empanelled. 

frunetl J Brace 
FOREMAN 2 

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NEWS 
OCA LY LCT Al | A US IN 

ng the South and 

  

~ 
  

di 
a i CHICKASAW. SARALAND. 

  

LEPHONE 4131881 I 

  

Ci ity searching;fe 
a 

By DAVID SPEAR 
Press Register Reporter 

In the wake of the worst officer accountability crisis 
in the history of the Mobile Police Department, city of- 
ficlals Friday began searching for means to rebulld 

the devastated and disgruntled 300-man force. 

A total of 16 officers have been disciplined in the last 
50 days and Police Commissioner Robert B. Doyle Jr. 

and Police Chief Don Riddle conceded Friday that 
department morale "has never been worse." 

“We know the men are upset, unhappy and con- 
fused,” Doyle said, “This has been a very hard time 

for all of them and all of us. The original disciplinary 
action in April (in which one officer was fired and 
seven suspended) was difficult enough and this (Thurs- 
day's firing of two officers and the suspension of six 
others) have just made a bad situation worse." 

“But as tragic and distasteful as it has all been,” 
Doyle continued, ‘‘it had to be done and it has been 
done. Now, we have got to get the department moving 
again.” 
The embattled Riddle, wis was a close personal 

friend of several of the men he was forced to censure, 
echoed Doyle's remarks, 

“You don't know how badly I hate all of this,” Riddle 
sald, "but what has happened, as bad as it Is, is over 
ind now, we've got lo address ourselves to the present 
situation and make every effort to regroup as quickly 

4 possible and begin doing our jobs again.” 
Earlier Friday, Doyle made public the reasons Thur- 

day's firings of Sgt. Ronald K. Mair and Patrolman 

{enry J. Booth and suspensions of Lts. Walter Milne 

'nd Clarence J. Lund, Sgt. Thomas Lee, and 
‘atrolmen Robert Duff, Leroy Steck, and John Boone. 

    F pe 
Lf SR 

Maly _was. Jired for nl resort abusive treat. 
ment of a citizen by Boone, for,improper supervision, 
violations of citizens’ constitutional rights, neglect of 
duty, and encouragement o 1 Jegal actions by men In 
his command. “ad 
Booth was dismissed for atnitnt of citizens on 

several occagions from December, 1974, until last 

January, ‘and for an incident in April In which he 
reportedly took persons into ‘custody, transported 
them to an {zolated area, and. left them. 

+ Milne’ drew a 30-day suspension for falling to take | 
disciplinary action in connection with abusive treat- 
ment of a citizen by Duff and, on another occasion, by 

an unnamed officer. -% 
Lund was suspended for EY) days for reporting for 

* duty gn several occasions “with the odor of alcohol on 
your: breath,’ for failing ‘to provide proper super- 

“vision, and’ for Sneciraging illegal actions by men in 
his om ¥ 0 g TL 

USL “3 

Leo ‘wid ironically Is the Mobile and Alabama 
Jaycees’ “‘Quistanding Law. Enforcement Officer of 
the Year” and the Mobile Exchange Club's *'1978 

Policeman of the Year," was suspended for 20 days for 
failing to report an incident Inyolving Boone, and for 
parlicipation in the probable ‘yiolation of a citizen's 
constitutional rights immedistely following that In- 
cident, * 

Duff drew a 13-day ARIA fo for mistreating a 
person he had taken into custody last month. 

Sieck was also suspended for 15 days for participa- 
tion In the incident involving Booth. 
"Finally, Boone drew a 15-day suspension for an Inci- 

dent involving Mair, Lee, and himself. 

album 

  

  

  oe TE 

  
which Mair 

The grand 
t Mairand Lu 

- to do anythi: 

Both men 

All of the 

i Patrol Divis: 

®t  ———" 

  TTR ART 
 



: SFP oa N 

5 Ki 
yuth and 

SARALAND, 

  

ce 
ive treat. ; 
pervision, 

lectof + [is LEE A i : Seglental A “.Speailics of the i Soents wer ier setealod bot oil Br sy men In 

itizens on 
anti] last 

which he 

ansported 

7 to take 
ve treat- 

-aslon, by   rting for 

lcohol on 
=r super- 

¥ men in 

#\labama 
sficer of 

's "1976 

days for 

_ and for 
«citizen's 

that In- 

  

-
 

mating a 

articipa- 

an Inci- 

  
  

¥ “\Ews 
aa 

  

  

  

the wake of a alleged mock lynching on March 28 of a 

o
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p
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1 Coley, were all suspended for 15 dayy~ 
* Patrick, Strau, Powell, Williams, 

§- on assault and batte 
i incident, In which &'looped rope was placed around the, 
k' neck of 27-year-old Glenn Diamond. Fold 
£ All five are awaiting trial and the wispensions of the” 

  

   
a 

came: to light during-a departmental Investigation of x 
police conduct that yas launched two months ago In} 

  

black robbery 

Shortly after tha incident came Fo ght: In early 
April, the just uded Investigation began and ex,! - 
panded to include qther alleged misconduct and the + 

by eight other licens, all o 

+ original eight officers were themselves disciplined FY 
. Patrolman," Michgel Patrick was fired and 

‘Patrolmen Vernon .§traum, Kenneth. Powell, Wilbur. 
Williams, Danny E. Buck, and Everett Alan Brown, and B 
Patrolmen First Class Roy Adams and James R, 

Bint wees 
y a Mobile: County grand jury iX 

y charges in 
subsequently indicts 

four indicted: wht? Patrick have - been ‘continued 
indefinitely. - ; 

The men were all warhbity of the Patrol Division's 
“800 Squad,” a special robbery-burglary 
which Mair and Lund were supervisors. 
The grand jury was {old by some of the officers that 

Mair and Lund knew of the iyncing mattar, but | falled 
to do anything abou, n. Af 3 VL , 

Both men have denied the charge. 
All of the policemen disciplined Thursday were also 

Patrol Division members, many with long, virtually 

  

     

    

ws pd a 

id” 
with ba % 

a 

detall of 

_ i= department,” he said, "It has a good record and It has 

‘great majority of the men do an excellent job and the x 
community can be proud of them." rat 

  

  
     

blemished 3 service records. Four were superisory 
personnel. . 

+ * None of the men were available for comment, but | 
“several are expected to appeal 

" Mobile County Personnel Board. 
8 Censures ta the. 

eines 7132 

A total of 54 officers and 60 ras citizd ere 
questioned during the departmental investigation * 
which was directed by Riddle and City Attorney Fred 
Collins. * = LE Re 

Fifteen officers took polygvah le detector) tests. . 
* Doyle, in looking back over the last two months, said’ “4 
Friday afternoon that he believes a lack of proper 
training of the men, particularly supervisors, was "Aq 

chiefly responsible for the misconduct. 
‘Consequently, several new trainin: programs’ Ha : 

established, including efforts to teach supervisg 
“detect undue tension and strain within their” 

Also, an outside agency is expected to be petal 
for a masiagément and effectiveness dy of the. eo- 
tire department. 

Finally, an Internal Affairs Division that will, 1a: 
effect, police the police department is being er | 
tablished. 

Doyle sald Friday that the Investigation Ww dis- 3 
ciplining is an Indication the police department willi { 
“clean its own house,” and he ade the S Qornmeniy r i 
should not abandon the police. ~ f 

The Mobile Police Department. Is a good’ 

   

   

   

some of the most dedicated men and some of the [inest 

men of any police department in the country . .. The 

  
  

  — ——



  

Plaintiffs Exhibit 73 

SUMMARY 

The City reports 1369 white employees and 489 black, 

employees, i.e. 26.3% black. If the lowest job classification, 

Service/Maintenance, is removed the percentage of black efiplovess 

falls to 10.4%. If the lowest salary classification is removed, 

 § less than $5,900/year, the percentage of black employees falls 

to 13.87. 

  

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9
9
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(>) 
te 

PLAINTIFFS’ EXHIBIT 
oO 

cITY f1 Pin. #2 Streets #4 9 #6 Hat. #9 £10 Community #12 Utilities #13 Sant.& #15 Totals 4 

  

1975 Admin. Highways Police Fire Res.&Parks Housing Development &Transp. _Sewage Misc. Black 

Officials . Administrative 13 1 i. 9-6. 138 1 a Ta . Veg ge 6. ~ Sig 10% 
Professionals $e th 15 116. Li 2.0.  . i 0. ~ s§ 1 1.72 
Technician no. & om 86° = BS ye, 2 1 ho. ith 1. 9 - 2201 42 
Protective Service . i 7 BIS ae aim =. 2 a ow - - 432 4 11.12 
Para.Professional -- - - wma bie OY SY - = - - - - Po o~- 25:3" 67:53 44.12 

Office Clerical 3 iw 08 A miigy oy & 3 J 6. = 2 - 131 45 11 7.02 
Skilled Craft REA Te owe Ci oli 8.1 72 78 9 108 14 11.4% 0 
Service/Maint. «= 20 10 8. 2. = wi YA -iiw hin 46 33 S4 124 33 21 166 48 67.7% aN Totals 80 2.47 108 1708*6 42d45 8d 122 23 2 1 66 35 75"126 184 34 1248 487 

vos Veer nagisaigl wl uy ig vB vB Vv oB vs. Ww. 3 

3 

W = White 

* Individual statistics do not match EEO-& totals. 
. B = Black 

1/ Includes 15 denominated "other" as white. 

 



  

1 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT 

SUMMARY ANALYSIS 
Fo p . CITY OF MOBILE EMPLOYMENT - 1975 

BY RACE, SALARY AND JOB CLASSIFICATION. 
pt SOURCE: STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT 
co INFORMATION (EEO-4) SUBMITTED TO THE 

EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION 

Annual Salary Financial Streets & Police Fire Natural Resources Housing Community Utilities Sanitation Misc. Total 4 

  

in Thousand $ Admin. Highways & Parks Develop, & Transp. & Sewage Black 

0-5.9 19 13 = 90 26 2 2 - 28 83 3. .'~- -lim 1:9 37 9% 51 21 186 299 61.62 

6.0-7.9 4 {dh 19 15 42 6 2 - 30 37 1-7} - oo. 46 25 26.3) 48 9 241 125 34.12 

8.0-9.9 41 10 1 108 37 309 15 8 1 3 EE 3. = 5 2 3 1 S58 4 531 61 10.3% © 

10.0-12.9 15. = 4 - 32 1 A072. - 6 - al 3. 6 = 1 - 16 = 234 2 .82 ps 

13.0-15.9 8 - - - SE i= 3 1 2 = Qi - = - - 3 - 35: 1 2.12 

16.0-24.9 yp 1 - 2 - 2 - 2 - wil 2 im 2 =~ - - 3 - 21 0 0.0% 

* 1{ * « * 
Totals 98. 22 47 106 370 46 420-15 80 122 28. 2 BS 66 35 75 126 184 34 1248 487 

Ww B Ww Bl Ww B WB LJ B Ww B Ww B w B w B w B w B 

* Individual statistics do not match EEO-4 totals. W = White 

B = Black 
1/ Includes 15 denominated "other" as white. 

     



918 

Plaintiffs Exhibit 75 

  

  

  

  

  

  

Total % % % 
Streets Unpaved Paved % Paved 

Group (Miles) Since 1970 Unpaved Since 1970 

1 117.78 .85 15.9 

2 350,06 2.6 13.0 2.8 15.6 

3 147.61 4.7 al.8 

4 35.56 1.4 23.7 - - 

5 72.31 .9 5.8 6.5 9.7 

6 85.72 13.8 r34.8 
  

Miles of Miles unpaved Miles paved since 

  

  

  

  

  

  

% of Paved per per 1% of 1970 per 1% of 
- 3 Group City Voters 1% Voters Voters : Voters 

3 1 : 9.3 12,55 .10 1.97 

; 2 42.5 8.01 hy A 1.07 

3 14.7 1:-g.58 .48 e3s 

4 2. 11.68 +17 : 2.81 

5 11,5 6.22 . 06 ; . 36 

6 9.3 5.16 .82 .88 
  

Miles paved 

  

  

% of Miles paved Miles unpaved since 1970 % 
Group City Voters % of Voters % City Voters of City Voters 

1, 115 111 668.5 8.99 .26 1.44 

Vv & VI 20.8 Bel .40 «59 
  

614   
 



  

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  TOM 
Mar oa FOITION 
GLA ODN. REA NO. MY 

. UNIVED STATES GO'Y' “NMENT 965 The ™-nartment of the Treasury 

Memorandum 

10 

FROM 

SUBJECT: 

~~ Washington, D.C. 

‘The File DATE: ®-3/- 73 

RobertjMurphy, Malaku Steen, Paul Landry and Elliott Clark 

Compliance Trip to Mobile, Alabama 

BACKGROUND 

The Office of Revenue Sharing received a complaint from 

the Mobile, Alabama-Branch of the Mational Association for 

The Advancement of Colored People, charging the City of Mobile 

with discrimination in the distribution of Revenue Sharing 

Funds. The two (2) main areas of concern are related to pav- 

ing or resurfacing ventures and city operated re¢reational 

facilities. oder 

During the period August 15%, 1973, the Compliance 

Manager of the Office of Revenue Sharing, along with an Equal 

Opportunity Specialist, an Auditor, and a representative from 

the Department of Justice were in lobile, Alabama investigating 

the complaint of discrimination. The investigation involved: 

1) meeting with City Officials (tke Mayor, Finance Commissioner, 

City Planning Director, Senior Engineer for Public Works, etc.): 

2) meeting with the complainant and other representatives of 

the Black community (President, Motile, Alabama Field Director 

bY the NAACP, the Pastor of a Baptist Church, etd.) 3) making 

site inspections of the alleged discriminatory areas and other 

Buy U.S. Savings Bonds Regularly on tle Payroll Savings Plan 

615 

  

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; 966 
areas in the C._ 7 of Mobile; and 4) exam. _.ng records of a 

financial nature to determine where Revenue Sharing Funds have 

been expended, obligated and budgeted. 

For the period October 1, 1972 to September 30, 1974, 

the City of Mobile anticipates receiving $12,226,000 of Revenue 

Sharing Funds. Of this amount $7,452,900 is planned for Public 

Works (paving, drainage, resurfacirg various streets, culverts, 

purchasing specialized vehicles, etc.), and $1,572,000 is 

planned for Parks (swimming pools, recreation center, etc.). 

See Exhibit "A" attached for details. As of July 31, 1973 

approximately $1,950,000 had been expended and approximately 

$950,000 had been encumbered for a total of approximately 

$2,900,000. See Exhibit "B" attacted for details. 

FINDINGS AND CONCLL SIONS 
  

Recreational Facilities 
  

The meeting with the members cf the Black community focused 

primarily on two recreational areas - Herndon Park, which is 

in a white area, and Gorgas Community Center; which is in a 

Black area. In addition, the NAACF, Mobile, Alabama Branch, 

took issue "with the near million collar planned expenditure 

on a golf course". 

Pictures of the two parks cleszrly show that Herndon Park 

is in better condition than Gorgas Community Center. Further- 

more, the swimming pool in the Center is not operative and is 

in dire need of repairs. The Reverue Sharing Budget for Parks 

.. 616



  

967 

(Page No. 13, budget Number 432) stows thaw $119,400 was 

" pudgeted for the Gorgas Park pool for Fiscal Year 1972-1973. 

We were advised by City officials that the pool situation at 

Gorgas will be rectified before next summer (plans call for a 

new pool to be huilt). a 

Another areca mentioned by the NAACP in their complaint to 

the Mayor of Mobile was the Joe Rauford Thomas Center. Reno- 

vation of the pool in this Center is included in the Revenue 

Sharing Budget (#433) in the amount. of $73,200 for Fiscal 

Year 1972-1973. It is anticipated that the renovation will be 

completed by next summer also. 

Regarding the golf course, we found a proposal to the 

United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Outdoor 

Recreation, requesting 507% Federal assistance, namely, $265,953 

(the balance to come out of the City of Mobile's Capital Fund - 

not Revenue Sharing), for a 9-hole golf course, driving range, 

etc., in Miller's park. City officials confirmed that there 

were no plans to use Revenue Sharirg Funds for constructing 

a olf course. 

Regarding recreation, we conclude that the claim of dis- 

crimination is not supported by the facts. We should follow- 

up to see that the pools in minority areas are constructed or 

renovated in time to be used by the beginning of next summer. 

City officials ndvised that the delay was partly due to the 

fact that the City was caught in a bind with the contractors 

due to the additional amount of work generated by the receipt 

617 
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40 968 
of Revenue ‘Shai-ng Funds, 

Paving, Resurfacing and Drainage 
  

Our review did not substantiate the charge of discrimination 

rclating to the assignment of priorities for paving, resurfacing, 

and drainage of the various city streets of Mobile. In many 

cases, resurfacing and drainage prcjects are already in process 

in certain areas of the Black and White neighborhoods. 

We were informed by city officials that the areas selected 

were in conformance with the overall Mayor Street Plan of 1968, 

which was accelerated due to receipts of the Revenue Sharing 

Funds. Areas such as those locatec in the vicinity of the \ 

Mobile General Hospital were cited as having higher priority 

because of the floods which cut off ascess to the hospital. The 

city also maintains that the areas selected for drainage were 

selected because of the topography which necessitates doing 

certain areas first. 

The complainant provided several photographs to support 

his allegation of discrimination ir the assignment of priorities, 

but it appears that the complainant was not aware of the city's 

criteria used for establishing pricrities. 

Examples of some of these streets cited by the complainant 

as needing resurfacing were Summerville Street intersecting 

at Joy Lane, Stanton Street, and tle Old Shell Road from 

Buy Shore Avenue to Martin Street vhich has open ditches. Two 

oI these were mentioned in the Mobile Newspaper as slated for 

“618 

 



  

969 

resurfacing and are now in process. The Old Shell Road area : i 

  

has not been considered for repairs within the period of the 

two-year program, but later discussions with Mobile City 

Officials indicated that this area will be repaired during the 

2nd year of the program. A review of the two-year budget for 

the Revenue Sharing Funds, and the areas outlined on a map 

provided by the city, disclosed thet plans do include areas of 
— 

—>/the Black communities. However, it is quite evident that these 

| areas to a very large degree (with the exception of Trinity 

j Gardens and the Bay Bridge Area) are being used for commercial 
» / and commuter traffic, (such as Davis, Stanton, Donal, and 

i Summerville Street,) rather than fcr the use of citizens in more 

i generalized residential areas. The yellow areas noted on the 

. map indicates that resurfacing proiects have been concentrated &   : or. many of the main and side streets of the White neighborhoods. 

i se ead —— 

— | 

— | Tohere is clear evidence that the resurfacing projects were not treason SAAS teat See eee ——————. EE ee ee me ett ee eee. 

; performed on an equable basis among. the neighborhoods. 
-— TT winiieiismiom————————" 
      

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sis 

The complainant also provided several photographs of areas 

wnich had poor drainage, such as Chisam and Persimmon Street 

wiiich were caused by the dike built by the city to refdain the 

water from the river. The city ha: now agreed to cut a hole in   the dike, so that the accumulated water can filter into the 

river, 
i 

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-5- 619 3 

  
 



970 
a 

v The total -.1location of Revenue Shar».g Funds (approxi- 

mately $1,176,000) for the installetion of drainage systems has 

the i bcen limited to the neighborhoods c¢f; Riverside, Beichleiu, 

or Murtz, Maryvale, Maysville, Rolling Acres, Jackson, Bolton and 

Airmont. Some of these neighborhocds are shown as areas with 

of : drainage problems, but others are indicated as having adequate 

rise dranage. All of these neighborhoocs are predominantly White. 
. ———— 

Those areas which were considered with adequate drainage were 

  

included in the Revenue Sharing Bucget, when those in the Black 

  

  

  

      

  

    

  

al 

neighborhood listed as poor drainage were not. Also, we noted 

more that the city's capital budget shows that $700,000 was allocated 

e for a drainage project along the Dcg River ares which is also 

ed i predominantly White. We did note hcwever, that the city of 

as : Mobile has allocated approximately $1,000,000 for the drainage 

ot i system along the 3 mile Creek area and the Downtown section, 

T b Vaieh is predominantly Black. ra ny 

pas ks General 

{ Pointing out specific areas where streets have poor drainage 

e : where there are open ditches, pot-holes, etc., does not of 

in itself prove discrimination. 

  

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5-620