Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 6
Public Court Documents
January 26, 1965
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Brief Collection, LDF Court Filings. Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 6, 1965. f1a29a5a-ba9a-ee11-be36-6045bdeb8873. LDF Archives, Thurgood Marshall Institute. https://ldfrecollection.org/archives/archives-search/archives-item/e85b6f8c-8a83-4d34-ad79-da322d215d17/lankford-v-schmidt-transcript-of-proceedings-vol-6. Accessed April 27, 2025.
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND
SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al. :
vs. : Civil No. 16080
BERNARD J , SCHMIDT , ^ C o m m is s io n e r
of Police of Baltimore City. :
January 26, 1965
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Volume 6
(Page 582 to page 742 )
Francis T. Owens
Official Reporter
514 Post Office Bldg.
Baltimore 2, Maryland
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I N D E X
Witness
George D, Shriner
William Co Hughes
Lyman Wm. Gonce
George Cs Schnabel
Robert De Paula
Richard L. Connolly
Robert J, Hewes
Clarence Roy
Albert Gooddale
James J, Cadden
Direct Cross
564 591
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719
E X H I B I T S
Redirect Recross
7X6 717
Defendant's No. Page
No. 3 716
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IS THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND
SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al.
vs.
BERNARD J. SCHMIDT, as COt-MISS IONER
of POLICE of BALTIMORE CITY
Civil No. 16080
Baltimore, Maryland
Tuesday, January 26, 1965
The above-entitled matter was resumed for
hearing before His Honor, Roszel C. Thomsen, Chief Judge.
A P P E A R A N C E S
(As heretofore noted.)
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;0URTj Would you all come up to the bench for
a minute to clear up a couple things?
(A discussion was had at the bench.)
THE COURTi I think we ought to put on the record
that the Master's Report has been filed this Thursday, January
218t, and may be considered a part of this plaintiff's case.
Thereupon,
GEORGE D, SHRINER, was called to the stand and
sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
THE CLERK: State your name for the record?
THE WITNESS: George D. Shrlner, Detective, Balti
more City Police Department.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q Sergeant, how long have you been on the police
force?
A Fourteen years, sir,
Q Now, during the early part of this month or the
latter part of 1984 did you participate in an investigation
connected with the homicide of Sergeant Cooper?
A I did, sir.
Q And during the course of that investigation did
you have occasion to go to 24lo Eutaw Place?
A I did, sir.
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Q Now, in what capacity ala you go to Eutaw Place,
what was your jot? at that time, your position?
A As a procedure is set up prior to each investiga
tion I was one or the men selectee who would wear bouy armor,
to carry a heavy v,’capon and would enter first in company with
other officers of the group.
Q by bony armor you mean bullet proof vest?
A That is correct, sir.
Q V.'ould you tell honor very briefly without men
tioning names why you felt it was necessary to wear bullet
proof vest and bouy armor?
A Prior investigation dlsclosea the subjects wanted
in this offense were aeemeu to be considered armed and extreme
ly dangerous due to acts committed prior to this and due to
acts in leaning to the homicide of Sergeant Jack Cooper.
Tub COURT: bet me sue if we can save time.
is there any dispute about the last statement as a
fact without any question of its legal effect, is there any
dispute of this fact?
i4R. NAURU1: About the ...
Tub COURT: That tney were reasonably believed to
be dangerous.
MR. NAbRIT: No,
THE COURT: So that that need not be proved any
further.
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HR. NABEIT: All right.
BY MRo SAUSE:
Q how, Sergeant, woulc you tell His Honor, starting
from tiie time shav you arrived at hutaw Place until you left,
what took place to the best of your recollection?
A Yes, sir.
first of ail, wnat time was it that you arrived
there?
A Uur time of arrival was approximately in the
neighborhood oi 1:10 A.Pi. the morning of December 2/th In com
pany with the lieutenant anu tne other officers or the advance
group, the utuocfcive cruiser, we maue an observation of the
dwelling known as autaw Place, from our advantage point
in the neighborhood axiu in the same block we observed the awcl
ing. V»e observed at that time tnere was lights on on the lowej?
level.
From tnio point we retornou a couple, several bloc <
away where the remainder of the rest of the investigating group
was standing by. m e lieutenant auviseu tne certain groups
that would go to the rear, our group proceeded to the front of
the dwelling at 2416 Hutaw Place arriving at thi3 time at
380
approximately 1:30 A.Pi.
>.t this point in company with Detective De Paula,
Detective Ollvcj. Welker. Oergeant Richard connolly, Hortncasten
District, we went to the front of the dwelling at 24lo Autaw
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Place.
The outer or vestibule doors, double-swinging door
that opened Inward, were opened, one side. I approached the d
opened the uoor, the second swinging uoor was open inward.
At this point 1 knocked on the door and I also
rang the bell. Approximately one, two minutes later a small,
slight built colored subject answered the door clad only in
pajama bottoms. We had our shields affixed on the front of
our body and we auvised that we were police officers acting
on information, we were looking fox- two wanted subjects and
we had information that one of the subjects had resided there
and may be there at thlB time.
With that he advised us that we could enter the
house and look anywhere we wanted. I entered the house and at
this time Lieutenant i-lanuel had entered behind the other two
>fficers.
We began our search and at this time the Leiutenan
stood there talking to this subject. Detective Walker went
through and was talking to some lady In the rear of the dwell
ing, first floor level.
After he left the door was open, the lady was ther
to the best of my recollection she was clad in night garments.
A light was shown in a room, we looked around, there was
several beds there, there was figures in the beds and to the
best of ray knowledge I would say that they were^pung people
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and did not answer any descriptions that we wanted.
At this point wo went to the second level of the
dwelling where other officers were, I went down the hall,
there was In the middle of the second level of the dwelling,
there was a bath facility, I looked in there, I went to the
rear and there was a locked aour. We requested, who had keys
to open this aoor. With this a female subject came down the
hall, handed tne keys to me, 1 opened the door, we shown a
light and this room was empty. We closed the door, I returned
the keys, the keys were left there.
We went back down the hall, down to the first floo
level. By this time there were other officers who I do not
Know were on the third level, V/e went down, I observed
Lieutenant Manuel still holding conversation with the subject
who had answered the door.
We proceeded to leave the building after the all-
clear. The other officers were on the first level and on the
way out somebody said. Happy New Yeas spontaneously. The
officer with me, standing by my side, to the best of my know
ledge he was cither by my aide or to the rear of mo, wo said
Happy New Year.
--------- ! We left the premises known 83 2416 Kutaw, returned
to our vehicles and at once returned to the Northeast District
awaiting further assignment.
Q Now, Sergeant, approximately what time was it that
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you left the dwelling?
A To the best of my knowledge I placed the time at
approximately in the neighborhood of 1:45-1:48, no more than
fifteen to eighteen minutes from the time of entraoe to the
time of departure.
Q how, this person who openeu the door, the slightly
built subject, aid you explain to him the reason for your
being there?
A When this subject answered the door I told him at
this time that we were police officers, we were hunting for
a fugitive subject wanteu by our department and he said you
are welcome to come in and look around,
Q bid you tell him the name of the person for whom
you were looking?
A To the best of my knowledge I»d say, yes, sir, we
did.
Q in addition to protective body armor did you have
any other protection?
A Yes, sir. I was carrying a .45 caliber sub-machins
gun.
Q And this was visible to anyone in the house, this
man who opened the door?
A Yes, sir. ThiB weapon was at the ready and on 3afu
Q And have you received special training with the
handling of that weapon?
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A I have been a member of the department riot squad
for thirteen years, sir.
Q And as a member of the riot squad you do receive
training on the handling of the sub-machinegun?
A Yes, sir. All heavy weapons of the department,
we are trained over a period of years on numerous occasions
to frequent us with the weapons or any new weapons that are
received.
Q Now, other than service revolvers did anyone have
any heavy equipment •..
A Yesi sir.
Q ... specially trained personnel?
A Yes, sir.
Q Specially trained in the use of the weapon they
handled?
A YeB, sir. Every man that entered first was trainei
personnel in the use of the weapon that they handled,
Q Now, when you went in the house did you touch the
person who opened the door?
A I at no time and no one in ray presence did I obser1
anyone touch this subject at any time, Bir.
Q Did you have him put his hands up against the wall
and pat him down? v84
No, sir. From my first visual observation of the
subject with pajama pants on, if he had a weapon it would have
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been very easily seen through this garment.
Q So there wasn't any need?
A No, sir, no need whatsoever to touch the subject
or pat him down.
MR. SAUSii: Your witness.
CROSS iiXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Detective Shrlner, you observed lights on the
first floor from your observation, were those Christmas lights
A from our advantage point in observing this dwell
ing, I wouldn't say definitely they were, I wouldn't say they
weren't, sir.
Q Diu I understand you correctly to say that you
turned your flashlite, or a light like that, into the first
floor bedroom ana observea some young people in bed?
A You heard me incorrectly, sir, I diu not say that.
X said a light was shown into that room.
Q A light carried by an officer?
A That is correct, sir. i had a weapon which was at
the ready ana on safe. I couldn't handle a flashlite and a
weapon, too, sir.
Q Well, this was someone accompanying you?
A Yes, sir. There was an officer behind me, Sergeani
Richard Connolly.
38 r-Q And he had what kind of light?
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A He had a hand torch, as we refer to them. It is a
high-powered, twelve volt light.
Q Did the two of your look into this room, the first
floor bedroom?
A I would hardly say that he could look through me,
sir. He had the light at a point where if anyone was there,
the light — the first instinct, if anybody can see a light
they are going to go for the light. The light would be off
from my body so if anything was coining ray way I wouldn't get it.
Q Did you look into the room?
A I did, sir.
Q Did you have any conversation with the lady ...
A I had no conversation with no one except the persoi
that I talked to when I entered the building,
Q How, this first floor bedroom, would you describe
the rooms — how many rooms did you go through to get to that
first floor bedroom?
A Upon entering the dwelling at 2^16 Eutaw there is
a long hallj right as you enter the front door to the left
going in there is the old time Bliding doors, you proceed down
the hall, from there there is an opening to a dining room, thei
further back would be a more or less kitchen affair and beyond
it was the room that we looked into the — it was quite a
congested area, I'd say, from quick observation, with beds
around and several subjects in them and this female Negro sub-
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Ject standing outside of the door who had had conversation
with Detective Walker.
Q And there Is a little area-way, like a small hall
between the Kitchen and tne rear room?
A To cne best of ray recollection I think there was,
sir.
Q oo that to get to the door of that rear room you
went down the hallway, through a olnlng room, through tne
kitchen, through this little hallway behind the kitchen?
A There was a hall from the entrance foyer to the
dining room area, then the kitchen, then there may have been
a small passageway or hallway, as you refer to it, to that
back room, yes, to the best of my knowledge.
Q Referring to the second floor locked room which
you mentioned, did X understand you correctly to say that
someone gave you a key and that you personally opened the door
with a key?
A That is correct. When we found the door was locke
we requested that the key or someone to open the door and the
next thing I know I was being handed a set of keys on a ring -
there was several other keys on the ring — and I tried one or
two, the second or maybe the third key opened the door.
Q Did you inquire before that who that room belonged
to?
A I did not. To the best of my knowledge I did not,
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Q When you first entered the dwelling did you or
anyone with you tell the person who answered the door to curn
on the lights in the corridor?
A Wncn we first entered the dwelling to the beat of
my knowledge we asked that lights be put on. In fact, once
again, I will say, to the best of my knowledge when the subjec
answered the door X think a light was lit in the hallway when
he answered tho door.
Q But to the best of your knowledge you recall askin
him to turn some more lights on as you went back?
A As we went through, yes, sir, because we were not
familiar with the lighting system or where the lights switches
were.
Q Detective Shrlner, when the door was opened did yo
enter and then begin this conversation you described with the
man who opened the door?
A I old not enter the premises until I advised the
person who answered the door what purpose we were there for an:
after ...
Q Where were you standing when you said this?
A From the top contact of the steps to the first
passing door that leads to the vestibule there is another largi
single door, when this subject answered the door we advised hin
we were police officers, we advised him of our purpose and onl;;
when
at this point/he said you are welcome to come in and look arouf;
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did we enter the dwelling.
Q Now, you said you advised him of your purpose, do
you recall his words?
A At this time, to the best of my knowledge, I would
say that when tne subject answered the door I said, we are
police officers, we are acting — have information that a want
subject wanted in a homicide of a police officer was at this
address and with this his response was, you are welcome to com
in and look around.
Q bergeant, am 1 wrong in thinking that the operatin
procedure was tnat when, in these series of investigations,
that wnen a person opens a door responding to your knocking,
the procedure was for one person to enter and then for the
lieutenant or person in cnarge to come up and ask and explain
what was going on?
A You are wrong, sir.
THE COURT: It was my understanding that it was
the testimony — it is my recollection that was Lieutenant
Glover who testified, was it, this entry was by another lieutejfi
ant other than tne one who was in charge — one of the three
in charge of tne Northeastern section.
MR. NABRZT: Lieutenant Manuel testified on it
last Wednesday, testified about this.
THE COURT: That is right. Now you speak of a
policy, I think policy was stated by Lieutenant Glover as beii
o o r
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the established policy of the group which he was one of the
three top men operating out of Northeastern. Lieutenant Manuel
wasn't one of tne top men. fou asked tills man very properly
I whether this was the — what you nave Just said is what I
understood Lieutenant Glover said was policy.
This witness has sale you are wrong about the
policy. Are you familiar with the general policy or are you
talking about the policy of raids that you participated In or
are you talking about what was none in the raids of some of
tne others?
THL Wx'lkooh: To clarify that. Your Honor, his
statement was — his question was, as soon as I entered would
the lieutenant come in. The policy was the first three or
four men witn tne bouy armor would enter to make sure that no
body was laying anu waiting in tne nail or any room that we
entered, then tne superior officer was directly behind these
four men. Ills question was, aid the lieutenant come directly
behind me anc 1 answered no.
TiiL COURT: Well, I think the question — there. w$s
a misundersterming — ao you know what the policy was with re
spect to who should tell the person who opened the door tne
purpose of the visit. Was tnere a policy that you knew about
or was it Just a custom in the raids that you participated in,
or the* searcha you participated in?
THE WITNESSi Yes, Your Honor. I can answer the
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question this way. The policy was that after we knocked on
the dwelling or any place that we entered, as soon as we had a
response we would uuvj.se uiun of our purpose there, we were
police officers anu once wo entered then tne lieutenant In
c ilarge would bt directly behind the first three or four men
who were wearxng the body armor, then he would further auvlse
them in detail,
THE oGURT: bo it lb your- understanding of the
policy that sue initial announcement that they were policemen
and they were making some sort of a search, was by the people
who entered iir*t with the bouy armor and the weapons?
THE Viilh^hO: Yes, sir. Then the superior oil leer
would be directly behind these people,
BY MR. NAURU:
4 Well, Detective Lhrinor, die Lieutenant Manuel
come in after you or did he come in after Walker, De Paula and
u^nnolly?
A To the best of my recollection, sir, I was the
first to enter in the dwelling ana due to the seriousness of
the situation I didn’t Iook over my shoulder to see who was
directly — 1 knew who would be behind me, the other three men
of the group tnat would enter first. But now as far as Lieute^
ant Manuel, l know that he had to be very close behind which
391was the normal procedure,
Q £>id~you go on any raids with Lieutenant Glover?
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A I have been on quite a few of the raids, sira
Q Did you go on any others where you were the first
perad i in?
iVii-vj.cali.y the majority of ail trie raids chat X
via a on x ^ntcreu i Arc t <uu ng wiui Defective De Paula and
Detective Mailer.
. ere any of these ruias where Lieutenant Cadden was
xn charge?
'x'herfc were a number or raias enat Lieutenant Cadde
598
A
was> in charge or, yea, air.
\were thbre a number of raids like this where
Glover
Lieutenant/ aqb x i . eaarge?
A That is correct, sir. Lieutenant Glover was in
charge. \
Q tan you recall how many officers entered the house
on Kutaw Place that nignt? \
A To the best of my knowledge the exact number I
could not recall. 1 am only familiar with the officers that w4
worked together with under the procedure
Q Do you know that there were others other than thos^
you named? \
A I observed one or two, at the most, other officers
that I do not recall their names. \
THE COURTi lie testified there were officers he
didn’t know who searched the third floor
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BY NR. NABRITi
Officer, did you participate in a search at 2303
Allendale Drive on or about December 30th?
MR, BA USB» If Your Honor please, I would like to
indicate herd that I don’t object when counsel deliberately
goes outside oiS direct and to show further that we want to get
to the truth we Will waive that objection but It Is clearly
improper cross examination.
THK COUjdh Were you going to put him back on?
Were you planning to take the various different entries in ord<
and were you planning to put him back on?
MR. BAUSB: No, sir, we were going to try to avoid
that to conserve the court13 time.
THK COURT: Well, if you were not going to recall
him, go ahead.
THK WITNKSS: To the best of ray knowledge I would
have to refer to the records, I was on a number of rald3 . At
this time I don't recall if I was or wasn't. I was on a great
number of searches. I would have to refresh my memory through
the records. \
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q This one was on December 26th, four to four thirty
in the afternoon, a three-story frame house?
A I would still have to refer to the records, sir,
because we had been going quite a few hours and we hft a numbed
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of places,
\ Q What records would you refer to to refresh your
recollection about x.utaw Place, if any?
A kc nave the emergency service vehicle records and
reports that we raake out.
You jaade out a report on oucaw Place?
A lucre's records that we maae out, yes, sir.
<* You personally?
a 1 made a report relative to the raid on liutaw Plao£
yes, sir.
k And did you alscuaa that raid on tfutaw Place with
anyone since then?
A 1 nave uxseussed it with ray superior officers, that
is correct, sir,
i* when was the most recent discussion you had?
A dir.
<« When was the most recent discussion?
A To the best of my knowledge X would say sometime
in the early part or January, sir.
Q You haven't discussed it since last Wednesday?
A No, sir. I have either been on night work or I
have been off, sir, painting the house.
Q Do you know wnethor any officers climbed a fire
escape in that house on JSutaw Place?
A From the front of the house I did not observe the
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fire escape and I cannot answer If the fire escape was climbed
by anyone. I did not climb it.
Q How about the roof?
A No, sir.
Q You didn't observe it, you don't know?
A X do not know, sir.
Q Did you go on a raid at 917 North Chapel, December
3 1 about miu-oay?
A No, sir.
Q 2003 North Monroe, January 6th, also about mid-day
A 1 did not participate in that raid, sir.
Q 1140 Hnields Place, New Year's Hve, December 31st,
again arouna twelve ana one in the afternoon?
A I was working the night unit at that time, sir.
I did not come to duty until three P.M.
Q 2204 North Rosedale, about January 4th, empty hous
with a dog inside?
A I can answer no to that one if there was a dog
there, sir.
Q The uog was in the basement, you don't recall that
A I don’t care if the dog was in the basement or on
the roof, I vould have Known, sir.
Q Wallace home on 240b Huron, December 30th?
A Negative to that, sir. \
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Q The* Lankford home, 270T Parkwooa on February 2,
after midnight?
A Negative to that, air.
Xbut you areNjjot Bure about Allenuule?
A As X anawereu before, Bir, i would have to look at
the recoras to refresh my memory, sir.
Q Wnetnei* or not you were there or as to what happened?
A If X was there, to wnafc happened. To the beet of
my recollection, as I stateo previously, I don't recall at
ĥis time if X participated in that raid or not, air.
Q On uutaw Place, on direct you testified that — I
thinkXyou said to the best of your knowledge you told the per
son at the door the name of the suspects, did you use this
phrase "to the best of your knowledge, that means your recol
lection is not clear?
A When I use the phrase "to the best of my knowledge
I am answering, X can't state to you word for word what I
actually stated to the gentlemen verbatim, no, sir.
Q So you are not sure you told him the name of the
subject who you were looking for?
A We told him the name of the subject we were* lookin|g
for as I previously testified but wora for word, the exact
words tnat I used to the best of my recollection I don't recalpL
the exact wording.
Q Do you remember the exact words that he used, the
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603
person who opened the uoor?
N. A To the best or ray knowledge he said, you arc wel
come to look arounu or search the house, or go through the
aouse.
(4 ion can rememtcz' him word lor woruv
A x uiu not say wore zor word, x Just put xt three
diXlereut ways, he saxu you are welcome to look arounu — 1
uon't know 1 1 no suxu look arounu, search the house, go through
toe house or wi*nt.
t* when he openeu the uoor wasn't your lirst abjectly
to sue 1 1 there was aiiy uaiige*, anyone behind him, didn't you
want to Iook arounu lirst?
A ns x abateu In previous testimony, sxr, it was one
large single uoor, when the uoor openeu It went completely
agamst tne wall ana tne subject was standing there anu 1 1
there was anyoody behind tne uoor the uoor wouldn't have went
that lar back and we could see directly down tne nail.
Q wnat about tne parlor on tne lelt, did you look in
there lirst?
A The other ollicera apparently nau iookeu in cncre
but we did not look in tnere, we went directly through the hali
sir.
Q X mean when you lirst. looked in, didn't you look
and see who was in tnis room over tnere?
A The sliding doors were checkedN^nd they were lockec
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Q They were not half open?
A \ No, air.
MR, NABRIT: Your witness,
MR, £>AUSii: No questions.
Thank you very much, Sergeant,
TRt) COURT* Is it plaintiff 8 wish that any of
these witnesses be held, you may want them later, let me know
otherwise I guess they ought to get back to duty,
MR. NABRIT* Well, Your Honor, I understood that
the records of some of these raids would be made available to
us.
THE COURT* They were not asked for and I didn't
know that anybody had asked for them. Would you like to see
them?
MR. NABRIT* I would like to see any report made
by this witness.
MR. MURPHY* If Your Honor please, that is why we
had the Special Master,
THE COURT* Well, you put a witness on the stand.
Let me see his report. Get all the reports on this. Have you
got them there?
MR. MURPHY* Your Honor, this report was made afte;
this suit was filed.
THE COURT* Was this shown to the Master?
MR. MURPHY* Yes, sir, I believe it was.
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THE COURT: The fact that he looked at some of
these doesn’t necessarily make all — it doesn't entitle you
to it, tne fact that he refreshed his recollection from it,
Noth, what are you asKing, or if you ask for something I think
it may make xt admissible at the instance of the btate unoer
tht general rule — thl. isn't a Government case — and under
tht general rule in Maryland if one side calls on the other to
produce something which they are not required to produce and
he sees it, it becomes admissible in evidence, is my understan*
ing of the general rule, evidence rule in Maryland,
Now, if you wish to call for these particular re
ports, I am not sure that you are entitled to them if the
State objects, I am not sure that you would be entitled to be
given them.
But what is it you want? You want this man's re
port?
MR. NABRIT* Yes, Your Honor.
THL COURT: The witness who was put on the stand.
Is there any reason why t.,ey should not be shown
and allowed to be used on cross examination, Mr. Murphy, the
report of the particular witness, not the report of everybody
else.
MR. MUR JHY: He hasn’t testified from the report,
he testified from his recollection of the events. He hasn't
in any way referred to that report. \
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THE COURT: What is your objection? He said that
he had looked it over.
MR. WAiiRri': Hay it please the court, the witness
said, vnen i atnceu him uoout anocner eataoiianuient, cnat he
oouiun't testify auout it without looking at his records.
Trig COURT: Well, oi* course, the point is you aske
him auout a nouso number, If ne participated in fifty raids
it is hard to jxpuot mat he retaemoex* the house number. If
nc was told tuat ne participated ana given some sort of an
indication auout it ue might nave been able to recall it.
MR, WAHRiTt i aia my best to uescribe the house
to tae witness, if Your honor recalls, a three-story frame
house, the time of uay.
ihi. COURT; 1 uian't interrupt you because you wer
apparently testing ills recollection, it didn't seem to me it
affected the credibility much if he couian't remember a house
number of so many.
i>iu he participate in the one?
HR, MURTHYi Wo.
THE COURT: That clears that up. This is then the
only one that he participated in so far as you know?
MR* wURTHY: Your Honor, to be helpful to counsel,
in any case wnere we have an officer on the stand we will be
\
happy to tell him wnich of tnese the officer was on,
THE COURT: Well, X think that is fair.
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than
MR. MURPHY; I think that will save time rather
through the eignty houses ...
MR* hAxaltxi* x appreciate that,
liia COURT: xu tiiora any reason why ...
\yki• MORPHY t I think, Your honor, at the beginning
oi the exploxiatxwn xnto the records alter this suit was filed,
at the requeue \>i the Attorney Central these reports were made\
Aili• NtABIvl'i s This might sustain a prior contradic
tory statement. Your lionor.
\THE u o U ii\i No, except this, it is a difficult
thing — thiu is worth trying — tnxs particuiar report is not\\
made xn the uruinax*y course o, business, how, sotije oi the re
ports purport to be maae in the ox*ainary course of business, a
\ . - ■
report iaaae un December hbtii ana so iorth, or at the time it
seems to me to be xn a different class fro* a report made to
the Attorney der.eral after tnia suit was filed, how, this re
port was not made in the ox*alnary coux*se of business*
MR. NA23RIT: Your Honor, perhaps I should amend ray
request to ask that the Court make a preliminary inquiry into
the documents and determine whether or not it does contain any
contradictory statements.
THE COURT: Well, now I think perhaps that there a;
let’s see what we have in the report which purports to be made
as of the same date, the report of the Sergeant, then there is
a whole lot of reports here made by the different officers
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608
whi^h were made obviously as part of the preparation of the
\
suit because after suit was filed this was one of the houses
mentioned and it is natural to do that*
Now, there are certain records that were made con
temporaneously, 1 suppose, as this was here.
MR. MURPHY: That was after the suit was filed,
Your Honor* 1 mean it was caused to have been made after the
suit was filed to ascertain the nature of the witness.
THE COURT: ThiB is a record of another case which
was put in here.
The request is that the Court examine the state
ments given by the witness after the suit was filea. Do you
have any authority on it, does anybody have any authority on
it because this will perhaps come in over and over again.
MR. NABRIT: Sir, an additional point is that this
report was given to the Special Master, they made their report
on the basis of this file.
THE COURT: That is right, they were not asked to
report on this type of thing, they were asked to report on the
information on which the entries were made. Now, if there is
anything in this hiBtory that would bear on that point* but on
the details oa the investigation in the house, that is what th:L
men did and who shown the light where and who spoke where is
something they were not asked to report on,
MR* SAUSE: If Your Honor please, if we were to a3k
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fbr the work product of their clients for them you would hear
such squealing of deprivation of rights such a3 never been
heard in t^xa court before. Wow, certainly, on our side we
are entitled \o some confidential reiafxonshxp, too, between
our cixents anu
'xhE ouuhV: Well, come to tne bench.
vn dxseusbxbu nat huu at the beach off the record.)
\
Vl%u\. NAHKil: x have no further quest ions of this
witness.
Kh. SncoE: Nothing i urther,
̂itf* X «t* fc> ̂j
Eh, hhudn; berg cant Hughes.
Thereupon,
Wxnulak c. nuuuue., was called to the 3tand ana
sworn us a witness and, having been first uuiy sworn, was ^xam
inec ano testified as follows:
tHl cEnkn: State your name for the record?
THE WxikuUi: Sergeant William o. hughes, Northern
district, Eaiwxmore City follce Department.
TUn CDmhU: Tukc tne stand, please, Sergeant.
William C. uuglies.
THE ccbhf: hortnern District?
THE *ITiinbS: yes, sir.
CxiCCC x iiMCwij.iiJi T1 dft
609
BY .MR. HA USE:
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610
Sergeant, how long have you been on the police
Sixteen yeai’S.
last year, cud you participate in an investigation at 2416
Eutaw 4>laoe?\
A Yet, air.
Q With reference to an attempt to serve an arrest
warrant?
A Yes, sir.
<4 Sergeant, what was your auty at that time?
A 1 hau a group of approximately lour or five men,
patrolmen, to cover the reur of 2410 Eutaw.
<4 To cover the rear?
A Yes, sir, In an attempt to apprehend anyone who
may attempt to leave the real* of 2416 Eutaw .
<4 oergeant, hau you ever oeen on one of these arrestja
before?
A in this particular investigation I was on numerous
ones.
Q Well, I mean have you been on $ny others in other
cases in other years?
A Yes, sir. \• ■ V\
h is that a usual practice to cover the back of the
\house?
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611
A Oh, yes, sir.
Q Sergeant, why is that?
A Well, it has been a usual thing that the suspected
person will attempt to leave by any means possible, back, the
sides, the roof top in an effort to escape arrest.
Q So you went to the rear of the house and how many
men did you take with you?
A Four or five.
Q Were you armed?
A Yes, sir.
Q And with what type of weapon?
A I had a chest vest on and was armed with a .1 2
gauge shotgun, pump action.
Q Now, Sergeant, have you received speoial training .
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q ... in the operation of this gun?
A Yes, sir.
Q And any of these four or five officers with you ...
A Were armed with service revolvers and equipped with
two twelve volt hand flood lights.
Q Flood lights, they had no special weapons?
A None other than their service revolvers.
Q Tell His Honor Just briefly what you did? Did you
ever enter the house?
A No, sir, at no time did I enter the house.
612
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\ Q Any of the men under your command enter the house?
A No, sir.
Tell His Honor what you did at the rear of the
V
house, you anu the men unuer your command?
\\
A \ 'we entered the alley in the rear of 2416 Eutaw at
approximately^ 1 :3 0 A.M. I aBBigneu two men to the rear gate,
the rear of 24IC has a garage in the yard and the garage coverjii
all of the back except for a walkway between the property at
2414. The gate is at the house end of the garage. Two of the
men were assignee in that walkway at the gate. Neither of the
patrolmen entered the yarn.
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1 entered the yard at 241b, immediately north of
2416. The yarc hau no fence anu it was open. I walked up to
the rear of 2416. 1 stationed one man at the alley entrance
to the yard at 2416 where he coulu see the roof line of the
building, and one man with rat. The officer with me had the
hand light ana he shined the hand light in the area-way between
2416 and 2416 Eutaw. This light was focused on a fire escape
that ran between the two buildingB leading in and was in the
proprety and attacnea to the property 2416 Eutaw.
The officers in the yard at 2416 that were standing
outside the gate at 2416 were also equipped with a hand light,,
Q, Sergeant, is this a metal fire escape?
A 1 as, eir•
Q Or is it wood? \
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A No, sir, it is a metal fire escape that runs be
tween the back of the house, it ha3 a porch enclosure on the
first floor that is closed in and to the best of my knowledge
the second and third floor porches were open, just a wooden
railing around it.
Q Now, did you or anyone under your command ever go
up that fire escape?
A No man in my command and at no time while we were
in the rear did any man enter the yard past the gate, he was
on the property up to the gate at the house end of the garage
but neither myself or any man in my command entered that yard.
Q Did you see anybody that was in the house come out
the fire escape or come out the back?
A No one come out pn the fire escape.
Q Approximately how long did you remain with the de
tail in the rear of 2416 Eutaw Place?
A Oh, approximately fifteen minute's. I'd say fifteer
minutes at the most,
MR. SAUSE: Your witness.
613
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Did ypu see anyone on tht/ fire escape during the
period that you were there?
A No, sir.
Q Did you see anyone on the roof of 24l£ or any of
393
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614
the adjoining houses?
A Z^OQuldn't see the roof line but none of mj men
went on to the roof.
(4 X askeu you, aid 2‘bu^see anyone?
A No, sir, 1 couldn't see th^roof,
Q Do you know whether or not any officers were assig
ed to go on the roof of the adjoining houses or 24x6?
A No, sir, none of my men were assigned to th^roof
and X know of no other officer being ordered on to a roof.
Q Sergeant, were there periods during this investi
gation when you were in command?
A Yea, sir.
Q Do you know what those periods were?
A I don’t know when it ,
Q Was it a certain shift?
A I don’t know exactly when it started but I had the
three P.M. to eleven P.M. shift for a period of time, the datê j
I don’t recall.
Q Was it later in the Investigation?
A Yes, sir. o q 4
Q Later?
A Later, after the 27th of Deoember,
Q In that capacity did you lead any raids?
A Yes, sir,
MR. NABRITj Your Honor, earlier counsel offered tb
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THE COURT* There is no use in trying to tost the
officers recollection on that.
BY MR. NABl̂ iT*
q 5\rgeant, aiu you happen to participate in tne
Investigation i*^ember jjOth, about j**15 P*M. at 240o nuron
Place, the Wallace \ ‘amlly?
A Huron.
<4 in the Mount'^inana section.
A 1 cion't recall no, sir.
THE COURT* That i* the place where somebody was
showing some movies, or Borne slides, lights went on and off
in the dining room, according to some oviuence.
THE WITNESS* ho, sir.
MR. MURPHY* That is the only one I don‘t have
clear information on. That is why I asked counsel to auk him
about that. \
THE COURT* 1 tninK they would remember the lights
going on and off in the dining room.
BY MR. NABRIT*
Q Sergeant, you are assigned to the Northern ^strioH
615
or the Northeast?
A Northern District.
\
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Q Northern District.
During the period when you were in charge of the
investigation, Sergeant, did you have a problem with false
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616
telephone tips?
A Yes, sir.
Q Ana aia you indicate that to a newspaper man sayin
it was a problem?
A X beg your pardon,
Q Did you indicate that to a newsman that that was
one of the problems?
MR, SAUSh: If Your Honor please, I don't under
stand that question at all and I don't sec how the Sergeant ca
answer it.
MR, NABRIT: He can answer.
THJb. COURT* I don't know whether he can or not.
If the Sergeant doesn't understand the question he can say so
If he does understand it he can answer It, I don't know cnoug
of the background to be able to say whether he should or should
not, I will overrule the objection and see if the Sergeant
understands the question enough to answer it.
THfc WITNESS* You mean did I tell newspaper people
In particular?
BY MR. NAURU:
Q That you were having a problem of false tips.
A X told everybody that, my superiors and so forth,
that we were having problems with false tips,
Q l.'hat was the problem, what kind of false tips? D
you take call3 yourself, for example?
3 9 6
617
A People would call and give ua Information, give
us their name, their own name purportedly, and we'd attempt to
meet them at a location to receive information and by the time
we'd get there or have some unit there to meet them, no one
would show. We were wasting a lot of time running out this
false information. They were giving us vacant houses or house
that were torn down, no longer existed. We'd go into the area
and waste a let of time,
Q Was there any change in the method of investigating
tips because of this problem?
A Well, that is when we set up the change where the
whole unit would leave from the station house. We were leaving
on surveilance and investigation and observation.
Q Do you remember about when that change was made?
A No, sir, I don't.
Was it ,,,
It was early in the investigation to the best of
my knowledge but the date I don't ...
Q After two or three days?
A Honestly, I couldn't answer shat, I don's recall.
Q How about anonymous phono calls, did you make raldr
because of phone calls where people wouldn't give their names?
A We received information from all sources, communi
cation bureau, tne news midia, other districts received Informs
tion and we governed ourselves accordingly with what 9145. infor-
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mation and our surveilance would turn up to whether we inould
make a raid or not.
618
anonymous.
THE COURT: The question was, were somv- of them
THE WITNESS: Anonymous, yes, sir.
BY MR. NABRIT*
Q Do you remember about how ma^y of them that you
knew about?
A No, sir, I have no knowledge.
Q A groat many?
A I couldn't even answer that.
THE COURT! I don't know what a great many means.
Would you aak the question wa3 It In the nature of ten, in the
nature twenty five, in the nature of fifty, in the nature of
a hundred anonymous tips?
THE WITNESS* I don’t think it would be twenty fiv
It would be less than twenty five, probably more than ten.
THE COURT* And do you know how many you iailec. to
go out on?
THE WITNESS* No, sir.
THE COURT* Any, did you go out on any?
THE "ITNESS* Yes, sir, we failed to go out on som
yes, sir.
When I say failed to go out, we failed to take the
unit on a raid. We went out on it but we didn*t make any
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619
BY, MR. NABRIT:
\ Q Sergeant, do you have any knowledge concerning the
raid dn any house on Roseaale, that is either in terms or be ini
there oi; in terms of knowing how the raid came about?
A \ No, sir.
Q, \22Q4 Roseaale?
A No, sir, I wasn't there when the Information was
received on raia and I didn't participate in the raid.
q Sergeant, did you have anything to do with applyinj
for or obtaining a\ Federal warrant for the Veney brothers?
A No, slr\
THE COURT'* That question has come up. Would you
like to know who does know anything about it?
MR. NABRITi Yes, I would.
THE COURT: The quickest way would be to ask ...
ME. MURPHY: I think we can produce the warrant
itself and I think that would ba, the easiest way.
ME. NABRIT: What I was interested in is, which of
any officer in the Baltimore Department furnished the informa
tion or applied ...
MR. MURPHY: I tnlnk Lieutenant Olover testified
concerning this warrant. As I recall you asked him the questl(
\THE COURT: He gave 3ome testimony but he wasn't
very clear about It.
MR, MURPHY: He didn't push him very
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THE COURT* It would help a good deal, there woul
be an affidavit attaohed to it,, wouldn't there?
MR. MURPHY: I am not Bure of that, Your Honor.
THE COURT: iftio has it? I think we can clear the
matter.
MR, MURPHY: Lieutenant Camden., he has tne warrant
and perhaps at she time he testifys we can develop the time
and circumstances under which the warrant was made.
TIDE COURT: That is all right.
BY MR. NABRIT; _i i m .inMiir1 1 '■■■' "W"-**•»*--' "H*--** r̂ *""Tfcl'n "ULlni ~~
620
Q Sergeant, you testified you had been on the force
sixteen years?
A Yes, sir.
Q How long have you been a sergeant, six*?
A April of '64, I think it was. Not a year.
Q Had there been prior investigations into other
crimes where procedures similar to those used in this investi
gation in terms were used?
A I don’t understand.
Q Let me narrow that down, acting on anonymous phone
calls, other crimes?
A Yes, 3ir, service of warrants,
Q 1 beg your pardon.
A In the service of warrants, yes, sir.
Q Service of arrest warrants?
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621
A Yes, sir, People call in information that so and
so is now at such and such location and we have a warrant for
him, we check and we do have a warrant for that person, A car
is dispatcher, there to look info the matter. If it seems that
there Is anything to the person being there he calls for anoth
car and they attempt to serve the warrant.
q Ana they make an entry and search on occasion?
A Yes, sir.
q ho from that point of view this is something —
iiuve you partioipateu in others over a period of years?
A In serving warrants it is a requisit that the
sergeant accompany the patrolman on the service of all criminaf
warrants,
Q bo you have done this before since April '64, othe
crimes?
A iea, sir. We don't tear a place up or search a
place, as you put it, wo go xn and we question the person, if
he is known there and so forth, talk to the people, and one
occasion we have requested and received permission to hi
room,
MR. NABRIT: That is all.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. Sergeant,
THE COURT: Let me speak to counsel again.
(Witness excused,)
(Discussion at the bench eff the record.)
622
MR. SAUSE* Lieutenant (tones.
Thereupon,
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LYMAN WILLIAM GONCE was called to the stand and
sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was exaraf
ined and testified as follows*
THE CLERK* State your name for the record?
THE' WITNESS * Lieutenant Lyman W. Gonce.
THE CLERK: Sp<2‘3kJL^our name, please?
THE WITNESSt Lyman, L~y-m~a-n, William, Gonce,
G-o-n-c-e.
THE CLERK* G-o-n-c-e?
TliE WITNESS* That Is correct. Northeastern Distrio
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q Lieutenant, how long have you been a member of the
police force?
A Eighteen years.
Q How long have you been a lieutenant?
A Since November 19, 1964.
401
Q 1964?
A That la correct.
Q Now, directing yo.;r attention to December 2 7th of
last year, did you have occasion to go to 2416 Eutaw Place?
A I did.
Q And would you tell His Honor first of all what was
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your position or what was your capacity In going to 2416 JSutaw
Place?
A I didn’t have an official capacity other than bein
a police lieutenant. The investigation was being conducted by
Lieutenant Manuel and actually I was working on the four to
twelve shift anu after my tour of duty I cleaned up my papers
and so forth, I was drinking a cup of coffee and several phone
calls had came in and Lieutenant Manuel was discussing this on
from the information that he received from this liquor store
and so forth and I went along with them on this raid, only as
an assist, that is all.
Q Did you go up to the house?
A After the armor division and Lieutenant Manuel had
entered the home, it was approximately two or three minutes or
maybe five minutes after they were inside, then I went in.
Q You went in?
A Yes, sir •
Q Now, did you
A No. The onlyNo. The only thing I had was my service revolver
and that was in my overcoat pocket, in my uniform holster in
ray overcoat pocket.
Q Did you have the gun out?
A No, I did not have my gun out, I had my hand on
gun in ray pocket. I never took my gun out,
Q Now, Lieutenant, there vna testimony here the othe^
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day by a woman who Indicated that she walked up the stairs and
there was a man, a police officer behind her with a gun in her
back,
h finat was not* a polios officer, that was me,
Q It was youi
a fnat is cox^reot,
Q And, Dieuuenant, you said you never had your gun
out, Would you explain now tnat was?
A What happened, when I arrived I walked back through
the hallway and if I am not mistaken it was Detective Oliver
Walker, Detective Sergeant Shrinex* standing on the steps, I
aBked them how far tney had gotten with the search and Lieuten
ant Manuel was standing off the the side talking to some,
apparently an occupant of the home and Detective Walker and
Sergeant Shriner said they anticipated going upstairs but they
were waiting for a member of the family or somebody to go up
with them.
At that point a lady came down the stairs and whil
the three of us wore standing there she said, what's going on?
And at that time I told her, I said, we have reason to believe
that subjects are here that are wanted for a serious offense,
assault and shootxng, and she sale who? And said the Veneys
She said, well, they're not here, X said, well, wouli you mlnjj
If we go upstairs? She said, of course not, come on up. She
started to go first and I said, no, please, don't go first, we
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Just want you to accompany us.
As we started up the stairs I started to follow the
two men with armor plate on hut with that the lady got around
on the side of me, in fact, I even took her arm while she got
around on the side of rue and then the lady followed them and I
followed the lady up to the second floor. Then there were
several other officers who followed me, I don’t know, I’m not
positive Just which ones.
Q Lieutenant, is the usual practice that the men wit
the body armor go first if they have reason to believe there
i3 a dangerous suspect in the house?
A Yes.
Q And where there is danger of — is it a rule of
your department where there is danger you don’t put a citizen
in front of a police officer?
A Oh, of course, not, no,
Q That is what I thought.
A We Just wanted the lady to go with us, in fact,
before we went up there I aBked her if there were any other
women upstairs in bed asleep, unclothed and she said no.
MR. SAUSiij Your witness:
CROSS KXAMXKATIQN 4 C 4
BY MR. NABRIT*
Q Lieutenant, where were you standing when the door
opened?
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\ A I was standing in front of the house next door.
Q\ Which side facing the house?
A \ Wait a minute now, I'm not positive which way it
runs. If yoir were lacing the house I would have been to the
left, to the lel\ where there is a stairway to the other house,,
Q How lon^ after the first officer went in did you
enter?
A
Q
in?
A
seven or
\
Well, there was a light lit when we first arrived ,
I aeked you how long after they went in die you go
I'd say five minutes, maybe three minutes, or maybf
«
eight minutes.
Q How many officers went in before you?
A Men viitn armor and Lieutenant Manuel,
Q Any others?
A No, 3ir.
Q So that would be how many men with armor?
A Approximately four. \
Q How many came behind you?
A How many came behind me, I'm not positive, it
couldn't have been more than maybe two uniformed men because
I was — after the lady took us upstairs I don't even rememtm
any uniformed men being upstairs with us.
Q Did you go to the third floor?
A No, I did not. When I arrived on the seoonu floor
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the back door was locked and to the best of my memory It was
Sergeant Shrlner a3ked for a key, the lady said, wait a minute
We waited and she came back with a key, I don't know where sh^
went to get the key. She went down the hall and I remained
between the door arid the steps leading down to the first floor
I uo not know who actually opened the back door but I know the
lady did not go in first, the lauy backed off away from the
officers as they went in.
After the officers went in, then I went in. There
was a back door, another door and if 6
Q This is inside the locked door? — 1
A That is right, inside the locked room and it was
one of the detectives starting to unlock the door and at that
time I said, wait, there's officers out back, at least let a
uniform go out there, and when I opened up the door I hollered
out, police, and then 2 looked and it was a back porch, I
walked around the back porch, I looked over the back porch
railing on the right hand side and to the best of ray knowledge
there was a long fire escape leading up to the roof and I askec
one of the officers standing down in the alley if he had been
watching the fire escape. He said he taid been watching the
fire escape before you all even went inside, I a/.id, has any
body gone up or down and somebody in the allby said, no, no
police and there hasn't been anybody else use tĥ it fire escape,
Q Now, at this point you were on an opeiAporch on the
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third floor?
A Yea,
0. Did you have a flashlite?
A air?
Q Did you have a flashlite?
A Oh, yes.
Q And it was on, the flashlite was on?
A On ,\yea.
Q Was this on the third floor. the second floor?
A The second floor. We came back in, one of the men
locked the door and gave the key back to the lady and then the
lady went up to the third floor with, I think it was Sergeant
Connolly, Detective De Paula, maybe another officer, I don't
know, and I remained on the second floor near the landing.
When they came uown we went right down the steps
and with that we went right on out the front door ana Lieuten
ant iflanuel and several of the others were following. I heard
somebody give some sort of a holiday greeting but I didn't re
spond because I didn't hear it that well.
Q Now, do I understand you correctly to say that when
you were going up the steps there were two men with body armor,
the lady ... \
A They were standing ... \
Q Well, I am trying to get the order of\people who
went up,first the two men with body armor, then this lady who
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met you, then some more men with body armor?
A That is correct. I started to go in front of the
lady but then the lady kind of worked around us.
Q And you all went up one after the other?
That iB correct. When we got to the top I didn't
The men behind you had weapons?
Ion.
Tĥ s men behind you had either shotguns or machine
A
Q
A
Q
guns?
A Oh, yes* there would have been probably one or two
shotguns.
Q Now, you 3aid you questioned her as to who was
upstairs, did she tell you there was nobody up there but her
children?
A The only thing I remember asking her about upstair
is there any women up there because I knew that our men would
want to enter the rooms first and if there would have been any
women in any of those rooms, we wanted her to call through the
door first*
I do recollect her saying something about, are you
going to wake my children and I told her we*re not here to wak:
children. Now, I don't even know if there wa^ any children in
the rooms upstairs.
Q You didn't go to the third floor?
A No, I didn't go to the third floor andvon the
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second floor the only room I went In was all the way to the
back.
^ Did you aak her if the Veney brothers were upstair
A Wo, I didn't. I told her what we were thexe for,
we had reasonable ground to believe that they may be there and
would she mif̂ d us looking around, She said, no, inaeeu. And
she started up\first and that's when 1 tola her, no, come back
we don’t want you to go first*
Q She had Just come down?
A She had Just come uown from ups taxi's for something
I don’t know what she was doing up there.
Q But you aidn’t ask her who was upstairs?
A I aekea her If there was any women up there. I
wanted to make sure that ... \
Q I take it you were going upstairs no matter what
she said?
A No, I wouldn’t say that. The lady was so agreeabl
with us I Just didn't go any further with it.
Q Well, what was her answer when you asked her if
there were any women upstairs? \
A Bhe said, no, there's no women upstairs.
Bid you ask her if there were any men upsdalrs?Q
A I may iiave, X don't know. I don't recall that.
\
MR, NABRIT: Your witness.
MR. BAUSB: No questions. Thank you very\raueh, Lt.
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(Witness excuseu.)
JHE dOURT: Perhaps this would be a good time to
take a break uniebs^ou would rather take it later.
»<c wxlx taue n^ahor b recess.
631
^nuucss.)
i‘u i• as lour Honor nave nearu the Pollc
department is on a full-time scneduie and i Would like to take
this lieutenant out or turn because it would work out better.
Thereupon, ....... ..... ^ ""
Uudidu G. «-»v/iuw»iii4jj# was called to the stand and
sworn as a witness and, having been first uuly sworn, was exam
ined and testrlled as followsi
Tibi GLuRKi State your name for the record?
TJib WlfitGLii: George u. Schnabel, G-c-h-n-a-b-e-1
iiin djdsHivi S-c-h-n-a-b-e-l, Gcoi>ge C. Schnabel.
blKnwT ivXAMIAIATIGK
B7 MR. 3AUSB:
Q, Lieutenant, how long have you been a member of the
police force? \
A eighteen years.
Q How iong have you been a lieutenant?
\A September, 19b9.
Q how, directing your attention tbyJanuary 2nd, of
this year, did you participate in an investigation in an attemb
to serve warrants at 2707 Parkwood Avenue?
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\ A Yea, air.
Q What was your capacity there. Lieutenant?
A Well, actually 1 was assistant to Lieutenant
Hewes who was actually in charge.
Q Now, tell His Honor what happened after you arrive<
there and what was the extent of your participation and what
you observed?
A Well, I'll have to start a little ahead of that.
Q All right.
A About 1:15 A.M. on the second I received a call
from my dispatcher who said a taxi driver would meet me at
North Avenue and Pulton Street and give me information as to
where the Veney brothers could be found, I immediately called
Sergeant McManus who is a member of the riot squad, Sergeant
Mathias and Office Hyde, on cruiser patrol, and we proceeded
to North Avenue and Pulton Street where we met the cab driver,
a Diamond cab, 893, and he stated that the house at 712 Newing
ton Avenue, he suspected that the Veneys would probably visit
this house. Upon getting this information as the house was in
the Northern District I went to my microphone and started to
call for the lieutenant in the Northern District and as I was
calling Lieutenant Hewes was calling for C.P, 12 and several
of his other cars to meet him at Fulton and Flora. I immediate
ly took the cab driver and went to Fulton and Flora where the
cab driver related the information to Lieutenant Hdwes and
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633
Lieutenant Hewes also stated that he had turned Newington
Avenue up, it had been turned up before, and we dismiss-d the
cab driver.
While we were waiting for Cruiser Patrol 11 to
arrive this colored male — he was in his late thirties — cam*
up and said, are you going to turn up Parkwooa Avenue? And we
said, yes. And he said, this is the information the Afro boy
told me about and X called in, and someone asked the man his
name and the man said, 1 don't want to get involved but if
anything happens the Afro boy will step up and tell you who it
is.
Lo we then — then the Lieutenant Hewes tola us
the address ol 2707 Parkwooa where we were going to gc around,
So in the meantime the cruiser patrol pulled up, the men got 02
their armor ana the different men took shotguns and we proceed<
to this Parkwooa where Lieutenant Hewes knocked on the door.
Upon receiving no answer took a stick ana he hit the door a
little louder ana at that time a colored feraala appeared at th^
door anu Lieutenant Hewes tola the colored female who we were
looking for and asked permission tc search the house and she
said, certainly. Ana that is when we went into the house.
I went up to the second floor with Sergeant KcManun
and Officer Hyde and went into tae middle room where I and
Sergeant McManus proceeded to searen, Two small children
were sleeping in the bed. The children were not awakened.
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634
About three or four minutes later I heard someone
call, everything la all right, and then Sergeant McManus and
Officer Hyde and myself, we proceeded downstairs. At that
time I saw Lieutenant Hewes apologizing to the lady for
\
interrupting and we left.\
<4 Were you wearing body armor?\
A Wo, I was not.
Q Lid you follow someone else, you followed other
officers into the horau, is that right?
A Sir.
Q You did not go into the home first, you followed
other officers?
A Lieutenant Hewgb went in first, then I went in.
THE COURT* Was he in body armor?
THE WITNESS* No, he was not.
EY MR. SAUSEs
Q This cruising patrol that you were referring to,
is that the emergency vehicle?
A Yes, it was.
Q How were you armed. Lieutenant?
A I had my revolver in ray coat pocket, my overcoat
pocket.
Q You didn't take it out?
A No, I did not,
Q Lieutenant, did you have any conversation with any
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of the occupants In the home?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you overhear any conversation that anyone else
iiad with UiQ occupants of the home?
\
A Just Lieutenant Hewes speaking to the lady of the
\
house.
Q When you left?
A Sir.
Q Was that when you were leaving?
A When we entered I heard Lieutenant Hewes, and he
also showed her pictures of the Vency brothers.
THE COURT* When?
THE WITNESS* At the beginning, before we entered.
BY MR. SAUSE*
Q You heard Lieutenant Hewes talking and requesting
permission to ...
A Search.
Q ... inspect the home and you also saw him show
pictures to the occupants ...
A Yes, sir.
Q ... or the female occupant of the home, is that
right?
A That is right.
Q Did you hear anything that this female occupant sa:
A Well, she said, she gave permission to search.
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\ Q Did you hear that?
A She said, certainly, go ahead and search. That’s
her exact worua, certainly, go ahead and search.
Q nid you hear what you said as you were leaving?
You said Liyutenant Hewes was talking to her again?
A Add her exact words were, that’s quite all right,
you are only tiding your job.
MR. SAUSK: Your witness.
\ CROSS EXAMINATION
liY MR. NABRIT:
Q Lieutenant- Schnabel, is it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Lieutenant, approximately how many men entered
2707 Parkwood that night, police officers?
A Let’s see, myself — I’d say between six and eight
Q Vihen you went to the front door Lieutenant Hewes
did the knocking?
A Yes, he did.
Q And how many other men were standing there near hi
A Myself and two men in armor, Sergeant McManus,
Sergeant Mathias, Officer Hyde.
Q Where were you standing when — where was Lieutena
HewQ3 standing when he displayed these pictures to the lady
who answered the door?
A Well, he was standing inside, Inside the door.
637
Was this in the living room or in the corridor
A X think — wait a minute,
Q \when you Bteppea in the door .
A 1 tnink the lady said, come in, I'm not sure of
that now whether it was in the vestibule or in the living room,,
I'm not sure,
Q The vestibule area is very small, isn't it?
A Yes,
Q And when you go through the second door isn't there
a hall there in front of you and the living room on the right?
A The living room on the 3ide, yes. We could have
been in that living room, I'm not very sure about that, whether
we were in the vestibule or the living room,
Q. Or the hall in front of the living room?
A Yea,
Q You coula have been in any of the three places when
the conversation went on?
A Right.
Q Now, what was the substance of that conversation
between Lieutenant Hewes and ,,,
A Well, Lieutenant Hewes told her what we were there
for and showed her pictures and asked her permission to search,
Q And he Bhowea her the pictures before he asked per
mission to search?
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A Yes.
\ Q Yes?
A Yes. He also said something about a Garrett, does
a Garrett live here or something like that. I didn’t know
anything about this but X heard him say something about, does
a Garrett live here.
Q Lieutenant Hewes asked the lady if a Garrett
lived there?
A Yes. He had the information and I wasn’t familiar
with the information he had.
Q And your recollection is that at this point that
that conversation was either in the vestibule, in the hall or
in the living room?
A Yee# I’m not sure.
Q You wouldn’t deny it was in the living room, would
you?
A I couldn't deny it, no, because it is not clear.
A lot of people will say, well, step in, I don't want the
neighbors, you know. I'm not sure.
Q Had the two men in armor also entered right behind
you?
A Behind us, yes, Blr.
Q And were they there during this conversation?
A To the best of my knowledge they were there. I kn<
nobody went upstairs until we got permission from the lady to
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639
go through the house,
Q And the two men in armor had their weapons display
A Yes,
THE COURT} Who went in first, the two men with
armor? \
THE WITNESSi No, Lieutenant Hewes, Lieutenant
Hewss, then I followed,
THE COURT} And the men in armor behind you?
THE WITNESS} Yes, sir.
THE COURT} They come in right behind you?
THE WITNESS} Right behind us.
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q When you got to the second floor you went in the
middle room?
A The middle room, yes.
Q And you observed two small children, I believe you
said?
A Yes,
Q And you testified they were not awake?
A They were not awakened, no.
Q How do you know that, sir?
A Because I looked at them.
Q And their eyes were closed?
A Yes.
Q And Is that the basis that you determined they
640
not awake?
MR. SAUSE: Well, if Your Honor please, I don’t
know what human being could determine that in any other taanner
THE COURT: I don’t see any use of interrupting
the cross examination on it. The Court is
\
HR. SAUSE: Well, I object,
THE COURT: The Court is conscious of the point
you make,
MR. SAUSE: Well, if he pursues it any further,
Your Honor, as he is about to do.
THE COURT: Well, I will wait for an attention.
MR. SAUSE: Yes, sir.
BY MR. MERIT:
Q Do you know if those children were boys or girls?
A Let's see, they were boys. I’m almost sure they
were boys.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
children
A
Q
A
Did you turn the light on in that room?
No, we did not.
How did you see?
With a search light.
And was the light shown on the beds where the
were ?
Oh, yes.
How many of you entered that room?
There yjas myself, Sex’geant McManus and Officer Hyde*
641
Q Three of you?
A Yes.
Q And were there other men, other officers on that
floor at the same time?
A Yea,
How many others?
A I'm not sure, X uon't know.
Q Die you or Officer McManus or Officer Jfyde go in
the front bedroom?
A ho, we did not.
Q hone of the three of you did?
A ho, we stayed in there.
Q Did either of the three of you go in the rear bed-
room?
A ho, we did not.
Q Ano there were other officers in those bedrooms at
the same time you were in the middle room?
A I Imagine there were, I couldn't swear to it.
There was noise in the hallway.
Q There was noise in the hallway?
A Yea.
Q Did the men make any effort to be quiet?
A Yes, sir. 1 told my men not to wake the children.
I have children of my own.
Q had you been told there were children in those roots?
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A No.
Q Had you Inquired before you went up there?
A No.
Q i>ia anyone ask who was upstairs before you went
upstairs?
A X didn't hear anyone ask, no,
THb COURT: I am trying to place 2707 Parkwood
Avenue. Parkwood or Parkview?
THC WXTNiiod: Parkwooa.
THIS COURT: Parkwood, Well, where is ParKwood?
THU WITNESS: Your Honor, it is off of Fulton
Avenue, that's all I know. I'm not from over in that district,
THB COURT: Off of Fulton Avenue and up near
Druid Hill Park?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir,
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Am I oorrect that this is an attached house, small
narrow house?
A It is a row house, yes,
Q Row house, about how wide?
A I don't know, I have no idea,
Q About fifteen feet, do you think?
A 1 imagine so.
Q You imagine so.
About what time did you arrive at the house?
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A About five minutes to two.
\ Q Now, while you were upstairs, did the lady of the
house accompany you upstairs?
A No, she did not.
Q Did she come upstairs later on?
A \Not to mi’ knowledge she didn't.
Q Officer, I didn't hear your testimony about the
Afro ...
THE COURT: I didn't understand it at all. I wou:
like to have the story of why they went in. If you hadn't
asked I would have asked him to tell us again a little more
clearly why they went into this house and what did Garrett
have to do with it anu so forth.
THE WITNESSi Well, actually, I did not receive
the information on this Parkwood. While we wore waiting for
Cruiser Patrol 11 this man came up to Lieutenant Hewes and
myself and asked us if we were going to hit the house on Park*
wood.
THE COURT: Just the house?
THE WITNESS: Just the house, he didn't give us
a number, he said the house on Parkwood.
THE COURT: This is a man not connected with the
police?
THE WITNESS: No, this was a civilian, and he sail
is this the house that the Afro boy had information on and he
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didn't mention the house number*
THE COURT: And you didn't know what he wa3 talk;
about, whleh house he was referring to?
THE WITNESS: No, I Uld not.
THE COURT: You Just went along with Lieutenant
Hew rs?
THE WITNESS: Lieutenant Hewe», yes, sir.
THE COURT: Lieutenant Hew^e was in charge?
THE WITNESS: Yc b.
THE COURT: Is Lieutenant Hewes going to testlfyl
MR. MURPHY: Yea, Your Honor, he is here to test!
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Lid you go on a raid at 2408 Huron Place, 9:15 at
night on December 30th, in the Mount Winans area, the Wallace
family ?
A What time?
Q About nine or later in the evening,
A No, I was twelve to eight. I was twelve midnight
to eight in the morning. I was not working,
Q How many raids did you go on during your twelve
midnight to eight in the morning shift during this InvestigatJ
A Around six or seven,
THE COURT: Which district are you assigned to?
THE WITNESSt Northeast.
THE COURT: But you were not part of this squad?
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THE WITNESS: No, I was not.
Q You testifieu that the lady who answered the door
at some point said, go ahead and search or something like that
BY MR. NABRIT;
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
k
A
\ Yes.
Hov; many men were in the house at that point, poltj
Just myself and Lieutenant Hughes.
And the two men behind you?
well, they were waiting.
Where were they waiting?
They were waiting at the door.
In the front hallway?
Yes. In other words, they were waiting behind us,
I don't know whether I was in the hallway or if I was in the
living room now, it is not clear.
MR. NABRIT* No further questions.
MR. MURPHY: All right, thank you very much,
(Witness excused.)
Thereupon,
ROBERT DE PAULA vias callea to the stand and sworn
as a witness and, having beer first duly Bworn, was examined
and testified as follows;
THE CLERK; State ̂ your name for the record, please
THE WITNESS* DotectivexRobert De Paula, Assault
and Robbery Squad, Detective Bureau.
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY m 9 SAUSEs
of the
Detective De Paula, how long have you been a membe
Uce force?
A M'm on my thirteenth year,
Q Ndw, directing your attention to December 2 7th of
last year, did you have occasion to participate in an inspec
tion of the premises at 2416 Eutaw Place?
A I did, sir,
Q Now, were you clad in boay armor at that time?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q And what sort of weapon , if any, were you carry in,
A I was carrying a ,12 gauge shotgun,
Q Have you received special training in the handling
of that weapon?
A I have, sir,
Q Now, tell His Honor what happened that night?
A Well, on orders from my superior and after an obse^
vation of 2416 Eutaw Place we responded to that location,
Sergeant Shriner and myself went to the front door in our armoi*\
Sergeant Shriner knocked on the door, a colored male in his
bottoms
pajama /answered the door, Sergeant Shriner asked him — told
him why we were here and asked him if we could search and he
said, certainly. With that Lieutenant Manuel come up, permissL
was given us to search, Sergeant Shriner and Detective Oliver
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Walker went into the dining room of this location, I was check
ing the living room at the time wnen a woman come down from
the second floor. She asked us what we were doing, we told
her that we naa information the suspects in the assault and
shooting of a police officer were in the house and we a s k e d
her if we coulu I o o k upstairs, o n e said, certainly. £>he was
laughing the whole time, ohe started to follow us up the
\\steps, I asked to go in front of her because X had the bullet
proof vest on. \\
At no time was there any objection to the search
whatsoever ana at no time did X see any children in the house
at all.
X went to the second and third floor.
Q You have been sitting her in court this morning,
haven’t you?
A Yes, I have.
Q Now, Detective, going back a bit to when you first
went in, you said you saw this subject in what appeared to be
his pajama bottoms. Did you pat that man down?
A No, sir, nobody patted him down.
<4 In your thirteen years on the police force, based
upon your experience, is it necessary to pat a man down wno
was wearing the type — who was clad the way he was?
A I don’t know what he possibly could have haa on
him in his pajama bottom
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MR. SAIISE; 1 have no further questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION
Q About what time of night was this?
BY MR. NABRIT:
A
A
Q
It was arouna one, one thirty in the morning.
Are you a Detective Sergeant?
Detective Patrolman.
Detective Patrolman De Paula, when you went to the
front door and Sergeant Shriner knockeu, where were you?
A Standing right beside him.
Q Right beside him?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, whi *h door was he knocking on, the inner door
or outer door?
A As you go into the entrance there*s two doors open
up like in half, the one was ajar. We went into the vestibule
and Sergeant Shriner knocked on the large front door. It is
only one door inside the vestibule. Sergeant Shriner knocked
on that door.
Q And Walker and Connolly were where?
A Directly behind us.
Q In the vestibule also? \
A I'm not oertain whether they were in ^he vestibule
or standing on the steps. I don't believe they could have
possibly been in the vestibule with us, yet I can't say that
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they weren't.
Q Then when the door was opened what did you do?
A dergeant dhriner told the roan what we were there
for.
Vihat uxu he bay?
dir.
\
Q
A
Q what axu he say?\
A ne saxu thuu we hau information that dam Veney\•. V
either iiveu here or xs here now. And the man said, well,
you're welcome to search, ano with that Lieutenant Manuel
come up and the same thing was repeatea.
Q The roan diun't say there was no dam Veney here?
A I aon't recall whether he saxa it or not.
Ci jjxu you ask him if dam Veney was there?
A Vie tola him that we had information that dam Veney
either livea there or was there now,
Q But you aidn't ask him if dam Veney was there at
that time?
A I had no conversation with the man at all.
Q You didn't hear dhrlner?
A I can't say that I did.
<i Bid you have any conversation with the man after
you got inside the door? \
A X did not.
Q Did Shriner?
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A Him and Lieutenant Manuel was talking to him,
Q And the others, you and the other men had already
gone by him in the hall or were already In the hall during
tnat conversation?
A We had proceeded on through after permission was
given, Lieutenant Manuel continued his conversation with this
man,
\
Q Lid you hear Lieutenant Manuel's conversation?
A No, I did not.
Q You said a lady came uown tne steps laughing, was
she excited, did she appear to be excited?
A She was the most kindest and nicest person I ever
met, in fact, I told Oliver Walker that when we left, thew
woman from the second floor, I don't think she could have been
anymore congenial, she was as nice as could be. She appreciati
the fact we search her home,
Q And you went to the second floor with her?
A Yes, inuueu. \
Q And you went to the thira floor with her?
A Yes, I did,
Q Now, on the second floor what rooms did you go in?
A I went in the front room — I went up the steps
and turned to the left and I went through a room, and from
this room to another room like to your left as you go in. In
other words you turn left and there's another room to the left
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651
i here.
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Q At the top of the steps Is a hall with a bedroom
on your left and another room leading off that?
A After tnat bedroom to the left again there is
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another tearoom.
Q And those rooms were empty?
A Those rooms were all empty and Sergeant Connolly
was with me with b light, in fact, X stepped into this other
room before Sergeant Connolly could get to me and I asked him
for a light because X couldn't find the switch. And we looked
around, the cupboards were open and there was a shotgun, I'm
pretty certain, in one of the cupboards.
Q did you go to any’ other rooms on that second floor?
A ho, X didn't.
Q Vihlie you were in those rooms were there other men
on the second floor in other rooms?
A 1 cannot be sure of that.
Q bid you see Walker or ...
A I did see .detective Walker but X don't remember
whether I seen him in the hall or one of the rooms,
Q Going back a moment, down at the bottom of the
steps did you ask the lady for permission to go upstairs or
did someone else?
A We were talking to her as she — in fact, she
wanted to run right on upstairs.
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Q You say we, I want to know who.
A It was Sergeant Connolly and myself going up the
steps. Whether anybody was with us Immediately while we were
going up the stops, i wouldn't say because i am not sure. But
she wanted to go up ahead of us ana we askea her not to, to let
me go in front because x haa the vest on, which she aiu ao,
<4 wiu you as* her wnu was upstairs?
n x asked her xf anyone was up tnere.
<4 Vvnat uiu she say?
A 1 uo not remember her exact reply but I thought
that she said no one. However, i didn't see anyone up there
at all.
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Q bid sne say no one but my children?
A I couldn't truthfully say.
Q How, when you went to the third floor what room
did you go in?
A On the- third floor X went In the front room.
Q To the top of the steps and you turned left?
A 1 Deiieve so.
H Then was there another bedroom that is a bedroom,
the first room to your left?
A Yea, sxr. \
Q The front bedroom? \
A Yea, sir.
Q And to the left of that is there still another room?25
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A I do not know.
Q Did you go in there and see a draftraan's tabl‘-
or something?
A No, l aid not see any draftman's table.
Q What other rooms did you go in on the third floor?
A 1 believe l only went in that one room on the thir
floor, the hall ana that one bearoom.
Q When you went to that front tearoom on the third,
floor did you turn the lights on?
A No, I don't believe I did.
Q Did you have a flashlite?
A I believe Sergeant oonnolly was with me with a
light.
Q Was the lady of the house with you?
A The same woman that I'm talking about was in court
the other day. I aon't see nor here today. I can describe
her to you, ahe had a red sjclrt on, ane was a heavier set or
big boned woman and Just as Jolly as she could be.
Q And you didn't see any children in that bedroom?
A I haven't seen a ohild in that nouse as yet.
Q Did you see any beds in that front bearoom?
A Yea, there was a bed. It was a regular bedroom.
Q Well, if I suggest to you, Sergeant,\that there
were four children in those bedrooms, would you deny It?
A I would have to say you have been misinformed, yes,
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This ia the third floor front?
This is the third floor front, yes, sir.
And you aon't recall any conversation where this
woman was with you saxa, oca's saint the light at iny cnxluren?
A Positively not.
^ Inhere are only two Deorooras on that thiru xloor,
is that right?'
A 1 caWiot say tnat, sir, 1 uo not know.
V
Q How mary officers went to the thirc floor?
A r was with Sergeant Connolly and I believe there
was maybe one or two, tnere nau to be at least two other ones
\
up there.
<4 Were you present wnun an officer on the third floo
had a conversation wxth this lady aoout a picture ox her hus
band, a picture of a man?
A No, I wasn't.
MR. NAURU': No further questions.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much.
(Witness excused.)
MR, MURPHY: Sergeant Connoilyv.
Thereupon,
RXdHARl) L. CONNOLLY was calico to the stand ana
sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was oxan
ined and testified as follows;
THE CLERK: State your name for the record?
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655
THE WITNESS: Sergeant Richard L, Connolly,
Northeastern District, assignee to plain clothes,
DIRECT iiXAMJLNATION
BY MR. SAUSii:
Q Sergeant, how long have you been a member of whe
police force?
1
h April of this year will be thirteen years,
Q, how long have you been a sergeant?
A May of tnis year will be four years,
q directing your attention to December 27th, lust
year, did you have occasion to participate in the inspection
of the premises at 2416 Eutaw Place?
A fes, sir, 1 did.
Q in what capacity were you serving?
A I was the supervisor, not of the raid but in a
general capacity as a supervisor, a sergeant,
q sergeant, aiu you have any special protective equl
Dent on or were you carrying any special service equipment?
A ho, sir. I was in plain clothes, I hau no armor,
I had my service revolver.
Q Did you have your revolver drawn or was it in the
holster?
\
A ies, sir, 1 had it out, \
Q Tell His nonor what happened after yoW arrived at
the scene and what took place if and when you entersd the hous^
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from\the time you arrived there until you left?
A Well, I went to the door with Detective Sergeant
Shriner, Detective De Paula and Detective Walker. I didn't
have any armor so I stayed at the bottom of the steps and off
to, I believe it was to the right of the door. Sergeant
Shriner knocked at the door, and I saw him push the button for
the doorbell. Several minutes later someone opened the door
and Sergeant Shriner had a conversation with this man as to
the cause for us being there. I heard him explain to the man
that we had reason to believe that the persons we were looking
for in connection with the assault and shooting of a police,
in the homicide of a police may be at that residence and that
I could hear the man on the inside say, well, go ahead and
look around.
Immediately after that Lieutenant Manuel went to
the — came past me and tent through the aoor and had a conver
aation with the men, which I didn't understand, or didn't hear
because after we received permission to go ahead and look
around we went on through the back.
Q Sergeant, stop right there for a second. Did you
or anybody pat this man down?
A No, 3lr. I didn't sea anybody pat him down.
Q low was he dressed?
A He had pajama bottoms on and 1 thought he had a
T-bhirt on. I didn't hear anybody else say that but I. thought
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657
he had a T-shirt on, I may be wrong, but he had pajama bottoms
on.
q Lct&tsu on your experience i n tne department is it
necessui'y to p u t a iiieu down who -uS ciothtU in that manner?
k Wo, air.
^ Wow, you saia that Lieutenant Manuel went in and
had an additional discussion with this o*an and what did you
do in the meantime?
n i went uauk through the hall, and I am not ramiliaf
with how many root ns were hack there but I went with Detective
Sergeant Shriner unu Detective Walker to the back and we
looked through a couple rooms back there and then this same
man who hau openeu the uoor came back anc called to the ladyV
in the room bnat the uoor was locKeu and sne opened the door.
She was dressed in night clothes and 1 think Detective to-lker
hau a short conversation with ner and he walkeu away and
Detective Shrxner stood in the doorway anu I shined the light
in there. X s t o o d oxi t o t h e s l u e o f t h e u o o r a n d 3 h in e u the\
light through that room so that he could see what was in there
you held the light away from your body?
a Yes, air, I stood off to the side and held the
light away from me but I shined it arouna that\roora until
Sergeant Shriner said O.K. And then i asked the lady how to
get to the cellar and she pointed out to me where 'the cellar
door would be and then X went down the cellar and thy same man
658
that had given us permission to come in the house — I don't
know whether he came down behind me or whether he was already
there but I went to the door in the basement that was locked
and this man told me that it was a roomer that used that room
but he wasn't home and he said he would unlock it and he aid
unlock it and I looked at that room while this man was there.
And on the other side of that room was another door that led
to a bathroom and 1 looked in the bathroom and X heard other
officers on the other side of the door — I believe there's
two doors to that bathroom. The officers on the other side
said there are police in here so I didn't bother going any
further. So I left and that door was locked.
I then went to the second floor where I saw Officer
Flynn. He had some keys to some cupboards on that floor. Then
I saw a woman hand some keys to Sergeant Shriner on the second
floor and then I went to the third floor with Doctor
De Paula, Detective De Paula, and as far as I can remember on
the third floorl looked in the back room. I don't recall
looking in the front room, I looked in the back room on the
third floor.
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Q How, when you left did you have any conversation wi
any people in the house?
A No, sir. The only thing when I left somebody in
the house wished us Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We
didn't think it was too merry ourselves.
th
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Q How long were you In the house, Sergeant?
A Well, I didn't time it but I didn't think we were
in any longer than fifteen minutes, maybe twelve to eighteen
minutes, so m e w h e r e in t n e r e , X don't think it was any longer
than that,
\ MR, SAUbii* four witness,
\ CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. NABRITs
t* Sergeant, on the third floor X understand you to
say that you don't recall going into any of the rooms to the
front of the house?
A No, sir, I don't recall going in, I may have but
I remember the back room. It seemed like* to me i started to
go in there and somebody said that room's o.k.
(4 How many officers were up on the third floor?
A I only recall on other officer there, Detective
De Paula.
<4 There were no other officers?
A There may have been other officers but I don't
recall anybody else. LIko X say, when I started to go in a
room and somebody said that room's o.k. Bo possibly somebody
else Was there ana searched that room before I was there.
<4 Did you go all the way to the third floor back?
A Yes, sir.
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659
You did?
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A Yes, air.
Q So you went through a hallway and a kitchen and
a dining room on the third floor?
A The back room is the one I started with, the one
that goes out to the porch. I didn't open the door, to be
honest with you. I started to and I seen it was an outside
door and I just closed it because X knew there were officers
in the back and X wasn't in uniform.
Q Did you go through the living room in that third
floor apartment?
A X uon't recall going through the living room. I
may have.
Q Were you present at any time, at any conversation
with a third floor occupant where a police officer found her
husband's pioture and what he looked like and where he worked1
A No, sir.
Q Did I understand you correctly to say that the la<
in the first floor back bedroom pointed out the oellar door?
A Yes, sir, an elderly lady,
Q What do you mean she pointed it out?
A Well, I asked her where the cellar door was and
she said you have to go downstairs for that.
Q And then?
A Then I said, what do you mean, and she said, she
pointed like through this way, so I went back, I think it was
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661
two rooms, I wont back through those two rooms almost to the
hallway, I believe it was, under- the stairs I believe the
cellar door is. I’m not sure. But it is toward the front of
the house*
q But she didn't come with you?
A Oh, no*
Q Bhe stayed back in the room?
A bhe stayed back, that's right, and I don't know
whether she was still in the room or whether she had walked ov
past that door shortly, but that is the only conversation I
hua with anyone in the nouse other than what I had In the cel]
ar with the man about the one room in the cellar.
q You mentioned a new name, a person named Flynn wae
in the houae?
A Yes, sir. Officer Flynn*
q Ana you say you saw Flynn with keys to a cupboardl
A 1 believe there was some cupboards or closets on
the second floor, someone had given him the keys to these
cupboards *
q You also saw a lady hand keys to Sergeant Shriner^
A Yes, sir*
q how, before you entered the house you said you
heard a conversation between Shriner and the man who opened
the door?
A Yes, sir.
662
q How long did they talk before Shrinor went in?
A JU3t a matter of seconds, I would say long enough
to explain why we were there ana get the permission to go in*
Q What aia the man who openeu the door say?
A The onry thing I heard him say was, go ahead and
look around. You aon't have any trouble hearing Sergeant
Shriner, he talks louu enough for you to hear, but I aidn't
hear anything that the other person eaid other than go ahead
and look around.
Q When you wept In was this man who opened the door
to the right against the wall?
A 1 really don't remember,
Q Lid you ever see him with his hands up against
the wall?
A No, sir.
Q And you went in after Lieutenant Manuel?
A Yes, sir, he passed me and went in and I went in
behind him and Sergeant bhriner.
Q Lid you see any children in the house at all?
A No, sir, x don't recall any children at all.
Q Were you in on any of' the other* eighty raids?
Were you at Parkwood Avenue?
A No, sir.
Q Lutaw Place? This is Lufcaw, excuse me.
Huron Place?
663
A No, sir.
Q 2204 North Rosedale, empty house with a dog in itr
A I would have to check that, I don't recall it but
I'd have to check to see if 1 was there, I don't recall that
one.
k bhlelas Place, a narrow little street?
A 1 aon't recall that one either. I couldn't say
yes or no to that one.
k Ihe Shepherd house, the old lady taken down to
the station?
A No, sir,
k Allendale, three story frame house?
A I'd have to cneck that.
k December 26 th.
A 26th?
Q December 26th at around four, four thirty in the
afternoon?
A I don't think so, sir. I was at the funeral that
day. I may have oeen but I don't tnink so. I'd have to check.
4 Were you at a house where there were four small
children in the house alone?
A I don't recall.
Q 917 North d’hapel?
A I wa3 there, yes, air.
k Were you in charge or what was your capacity?
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A No, sir, Lieutenant Cadden was in charge*
Q And did you enter that house?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you fine anyone inside?
A I don’t recall. The only thing I recall about
this was that Lieutenant Caddenwas knocking on the door, the
front door, and a small boy came from either on the steps or
the street anu 3aid, I live here and he opened the ooor ana
went in and we went in behind him and after that I’m blank,
I don’t recall anything at all about that.
Q You don't recall anything?
A I don't even rerauraber the house except that my
picture was in the newspaper on this one and that is how I
knew I was there. Other than the child coming to the door an
letting us in, I recalled that after I saw the picture in the
paper. That is how I recall that.
Q When you say child came to the door, you mean he
came from outside?
A Yes, he was either on the sidewalk or on the stre<
playing and he came to the door while we were knocking at ohe
door.
Q Do you have any knowledge as to the reasons for
that visit to 91? North Chapel?
A No, sir.
THE COURTs There is a note — you haven't gotten
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these documents but there is a note on the back*
'"-Hp, NABF.IT: I wonder if I might see that?
I xLl. COURT: ourciy.
(A aisouasion was had at the bench.)
Mi. NABRIT; I have no further questions,
HR. MlTRx’HY: Thank you very much, Sergeant,
Lieutenant xiowes.
Thereupon,
ROBKRL J, liLViKS, v«as called to the stand an*': oworrjt
as a witness ana, naving been first duly sworn, was examined
and testifieu as followaj
: State your name for the"reco?<!I?““— -— ■
THE WiTNiSSSj Robert J. Howes, H-e-w-e-s,
THE CJAvrtK: R-o-w-e-s?
THE WITNESS: Lieutenant, assigned to tin. Northerrli
665
District,
BY MR. SAUSL;
LiitLCT EXAMINATION
q Lciutenant, how long have you been a member of the
police force?
A Since '41.
Ci nnc now long have you been a lieutenant?
Since ’5b.
Lieutenant, January 2na, this year, at one o’clock£\
in the morning, a little after, die you nave occasion to go to
666
2707 Parkwood Avenue?
A Considerably after one o'clock, yes,
li All right, Wiiy did you go there?
a i received a call from the dispatchex* over my
radio to call the dispatcher, When 1 calico the dispatcher X
was put through to Lieutenant Gilbert Krutzer who was the
lieutenant in charge ox communication on that particular shift.
Lieutenant Krutzer informed me that he had received
a call that the Veney brothers were shackeu up at 2707 Parkwood
Avenue with a latnxly by the name of Garrett,
Q jciu the lieutenant tell you -- he tola you that
•information hau come from where?
A He nau received a call,
u How, acting on tnat information from the Ircutenarit
what did you oo?
A First 1 urove u# 2707 Parkwooa Avenue to familiarize
myself with the iocation. 1 tnen went to Pulton and Flora anc
called the raaio dispatcher to notify the night inspector,
inspector Frank Battaglia, tnat 1 was to make a turn up and
searen of the Veney orothers.
Then I called for 501, 502, 503, Cruiser Patrol 5,
Cruiser Patrol 11 ana the raaio sergeant 53 0, and also the
bailiwick sergeant 5 3 4, to meet me at Fulton and Flora. While
this Informanon was going over the air I received another
call from the dispatcher to the effect that Inspector Battaglia
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would not bo able to meet me but to proceed with my turn up.
While I was awaiting the arrival of my own cars
Lieutenant Schnabel, accompanied by two sergeants and a patrol
man and his cruising patrol, drove up. Now, I didn't know at
the time what Lieutenant Schnabel was there for and I assumed
that he had heard me call my oars and that he, a lieutenant
in the Northeastern District, was to take over the turn up.
Now, ray Cruising Patrol 5 arrived on the scene
and they had a prisoner and seeing that Schnabel was there
with his men I told him it won’t be necessary, continue to the
station. And then Lieutenant Schnabel told his cruising patrc
that they wouldn't be needed, to continue on their rounds.
All this was taking place,it covered a good five
minutes, posBibly longer, and while I was talking to Lieutenair
Schnabel and my Sergeant Schaffer, who was then the man in the
530 car, a colored man crossed the street from, I would suppos<
you would call the south side cf Fulton Avenue to the north
side where we were standing, and asked me if we were going to
make a turn up on Parkwood Avenue, And he was a real respectal
looking man that I took it for granted that he was probably
the reporter for the Afro. I don't know who he was. And I
said to him, why are you inquiring? He 3aid, well, the Afro
boy who serves this neighborhood told me that he observed two
colored men who resembled the Veney brothers going into a house
on Parkwood Avenue. And I said to him, are you the man who
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called communications and he said, yes. At this time one of
my officers came up to me and asked me a question and 1 turner
away from the man and the conversation continued between he
and Sergeant &chaffer.
Now, do you want me to repeat the conversation?
MR. NABRXIj Objection, unless he heard it,
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q Did you hear it?
A I aid not hear it. When I turned back this man
was crossing the street back to the south side of Pulton Avenu
from which he had come.
Q You made no effort to pursue him, did you?
A Beg pardon.
Q You made no effort to pursue him?
A I, no, no.
THE COURT: Let me get this clear. Tell me again
what thi3 nice looking colored man, who you thought to be an
Afro reporter, had said the Afro boy had told him.
THE WITNESS: Had told him?
THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: What uid he say the boy said?
THE WITNESS: That he had seen two men who resembl:
the Veney brothers entering thiB house at 2707 Parkwoou Avenue.
THE COURT: The first time you stated it you didn't
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mention 2 70 7, you said entering a house,
THE WITNESS: Well, he — I beg your pardon, Your
Honor, he didn’t say 2707, he said Parkwooo Avenue,
THE COURT| Weil, where aia the 2707 Parkwood
Avenue come irom?
THE WITNESSs When he called communications he
must have given communications that address because that is
the address that they gave me,
BY MR. SAUSh:
W, Every time somebody mentioned Parkwooo Avenue to
you, you inierrea that they were talking about the same place
that you were?
A well, 1 wasn’t going to come out and say I was
going to turn up 2/07 Parkwood Avenue to a stranger who hadn't
identified himself. 1 asked him, why are you inquiring? And
he tolc. me that he was the man who called communications,
W, All right, what happened after that, Lieutenant?
A Well, by this time Cruiser Patrol 11 arrived on
the scene. Now, from the call sheets of my cars they called
out of service at 1;55 A.H.
I placed the crew of 603 cur and Sergeant Schaffer
in the alley in the rear of 2707 Parkwood Avenue, I placed
the crew of 602 car on the even side of Parkwood Avenue, which
would have been across the street from the subject house. At
this time the officer of 516 car, which is a single-manned car,
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and I tola him to go up the street where the cruising patrol
was parked and he was to remain with that until we return». *
I then took the two officers from the cruising
patrol, ou« Ox eg oixieex's xxom p01 oar, uuu incidentally, the
uthex’ elxlceXe li-om the yOi cax W0i±w to who rear# That was nc
my instruction, he went on hxs own*
haixiv.-,ck sexgsant die not snow up at thxs time
enough he tells me that when I came out of the house he was
there•
»'ui« hAixRjul i OhJeut to what ne told him,
xiih t Kbxl, x’<q Jusw telling j ou, he wasn’
there.
liih uOwiii: Ui, well, no doesn’t have to go Into
the tit wails,
Xiixa ivxiiiuoo i <>>o what xex t me with Lieutenant
Schnabel, myself, Lergeunt i-iathias and sergeant McManus of the
Worthed stern x>-.strxct, with two officers from cruising Patrol
11, that is the emergency wagon, and myself. The two officers
from the emergency wagon had on the protective vests. One of
the men in the street, across the stx’oet, had on a protec Ive
vest anti one of the officers in the alley in the rear had on a
protective v-st, One of the officers from the C.F., cruising
patrol, emergency vehicle, hau a rtexsing maohinegun, aub-
maohinegun, the otnux officer hau a shotgun. Officer Hyde had
a shotgun ana Officer Brown from the — let me ace, wherever
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he*s from, he had on a protective veat, and he was also carry
ing one of these portable lights,
how, i walked up and X looked for u doorbell whicty
I didn't see. It is possible, X don't know, I haven't been
back to the house, maybe the doorbell is one of those kind if
your outside storm door is closed it isn't available, X
don't jtnow. I didn't 3 e e the doorbell,s
ho X took my hand and rapped on the door, X
waited several minutes and X received no response and heard
no stirring in the house so X borrowed a night stick from
Sergeant Mathias ana with the night stick X rappee on the eoor
r f / f f t t
- . + * 3
dnortly thereafter the door was opened by a color*
female and I said to her, police, may we come in? Anu she
stepped back from this outside storm door, back to the inside
door and I said to her, wnat is your name, please? Anc I
thought that sue said her name was Lankford. X asked her if
there was anyone there by the name of liarrett and she said,
no, there is not. And I said, well, vje have information that
the (Jarrett brothers — the Veney brothers are shacked u p here
were holed up here, whatever you want to call it, may we come
in. While this lady was talking to me she had gradually been
stepping backwards so that by this time she was at the living
room entrance ana tne living room entrance here to my recollec'
tion wouldn't be but maybe three or four feet from that inner
door, and she stepped inside to the living room where she had
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a light and I showed her the pictures of the Veney brothers
that I had and also another photo of Earl Veney that I had
and asked her if 3hu knew them. She said, no, she had never
seen them before. And 1 said, 00 we have permission to searefy
your house? She nodded her head first and then said yes.
Wow, while 1 was talking to this lady it is quite
possible that other officers hau passed me. In fact, it must
be that they did pass me because when I went upstairs to the
second floor, the front room, beoroom, Officer Brown from th4
C.P. was shinlrtg the portable light on a oolored male who was
in bed who identified himself. Again, I thought the name was
Lankford. He says, hr. Lankford. And as I walked in I hoard
him say to this officer, take that light out of ray face,
there's a light switch on the wall. And I went to turn it on
and someone elsw turned it on. I believe it was Officer
Leldhall, 501 car, and, of course, Mr. Lankford wanted to know
what was going on and I said, we had information that the
Veney brothers were holed up here and I showed him the picture
that I had and askea him if he knew them and he said, no, I
don't know them, only from seeing their pictures in the papex*.
And I said, how long have you been a resident of this house?
And he said, seven years, I believe. I said, do you know any
of your neighbors? And he said, no, I'm a man who keeps to
myself pretty much, X uon't mix with the neighbors. And I 3al[j
do you know a man by the name of Garrett? He said, no, I don'
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I Bald, well, would either one of your next-door neighbors
on either side of you named Garrett? He said, no, that I knoi
they're not,
bo X walked back to the haii then and X called to
Lieutenant bchnabei, come on, there's nothing here, let's get
out of here, Anu aa Lieutenant bchnabei walked up I remember
saying to him, this man's got to get up at four o'clock, it's
after two now, let's get out of here. It's rough. X was in
the post office five years myself and that's one reason I
quit because I didn't like getting up.
Anyhow, we went downstairs and when we got down
stairs the lauy of the house was still in the living room.
To my knowledge she had never left the living room, and I went
in ana I apologized to her. I said, I'm awful sorry to distur
you at this time of the morning, we get these calls, we have
this information and we have to make these turn ups, I apolo
gized to her, took my men and went out, I went back to my
car, got back in my car and as I turned on the motor of the
car the radio came on, I heard of a police being shot at at
Pennsylvania ard bigin Avenue and that call came over at 2:10
A.M, I couldn't have entered the house before 2:00 A.M., and
I was out, walked up the street and in my car at 2:10 so I
couldn't have been in the house at the outside eight minutes,
how, in that front bedroom there was a young child
sleeping and that young child was not awakened,
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I don’t set how the raid could have been conduetet
with more circumspection,
MR. iiAUhji: Your witness.
OHOoo iiAAMXNn'XXON
isi MK. NABRi.1;
<< ulcutenant, wnat time was it when you got your
first call from ooromunxc&uxons that gave you this Parkwood.
A ine call from communications?
<4 li'fO'f rarKwoou.
A Yes* Well, the only thing 1 can tell you, counsel
is that I know that at 1;15 1 was sitting on a vacant lot on
Retreat Street lor tne purpose oi‘ watching Pennsylvania Avenue
for any posaiole yoklngs and X Know that I left there at 1 :1 5 ,
and I would say tnat 1 had driven fox* possibly five minutes
or so when I received that original call. Now, I can’t place
the exact time but I know that it was at least five minutes
after i:15.
Q Now, did you give tne address 2707 Parkwood over
the police rauio in the police car?
A Oh, no,no, no, no, never. You get a call to call
the dispatcher,
Q So it waB somewhere around, sometime after 1:15
that you first learned of 2707 Parkwood?
A Yes, sir, 116
Q And it was sometime ax'ter 1:15 that you entered th<
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675
h o u s e , 3 0 i a c t i m e s h o r t l y a f t e r , * *
A I'm quite sure of that, counsel, because the m~n
all called out of service at 1:55* It would take me — wall,
the distance we had to walk was not too far, maybe five hundr*
yards but It would take me a couple minutes to place the men
and X remember this •..
Q, I*ra not trying to pin you down to the exact minute
A Well, I-'ra going to tell you this, as I turned lnt<
Parkwood Avenue the lights on the tavern down the street went
out and people started coming out of the side door. Nov/, I
don't think that would have happened before 1*55# possibly
closer to about 1:58*
Q It would have been at least forty five minutes
after you first heard of it that you entered the house?
A Within forty five minutes? Oh, definitely, I*a»
sure*
Q Now, were you ordered to make a turn up by a supei
lor officer at this house?
A Ordered to make a turn up?
Q Yes, were you ordered to go, did some superior
officer that you answer to jrder you to go there or did you
make the decision to go there?
A When you receive these calls that the Veney brothe
naturally, as a lieutenant in charge of the shift it is rny dut
to make the turn up*
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Q You acted on your own responsibility as the roan
in charge?
A aure,
Q Now, os soon ob you got the call you drove by the
address to familiarise yourself with the neighborhood?
A I answered the call to the operator from Whiteiocl
Street, the yOO block of Whiteloek Street from the call box,
and then I arove over to Parkwooa Avenue. Actually, frankly,
I wasn't sure Just exactly the 2700 block was and I wanted to
be sure,
Q So you just arove by, you didn’t stop in the blocl
A No, sir.
Q Did any aurveilance team go into that block?
A No, sir.
Q Were any of the neighbors or anyone questioned by
your men or men working under your direction?
A No, sir, not at two o'clock in the morning,
Q Now, the dispatcher told you, am I correct, that
he had received a call?
A Yes, sir.
Q ... that the Veney brothers were holed up at
this place?
A With a naan by the name of Garrett.
Q With a man by the name of Garrett?
A Yes, he gave me that name, a man by the name of
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G a r r e t t .
Q Nov*, d i d y o u a a c e r t a i n w h e r e t h e d i s p a t c h e r g o t
t h i s i n f o r m a t i o n ?
A l i o , a i r .
(* D id y o u m ake an y a t t e m p t t o f i n d o u t w h e re t h e
d i s p a t c h e r - - w ho t h e d i s p a t c h e r g o t t h e c a l l f r o m ?
A C o u n s e l , i t i s n ’ t my J o b t o q u e s t i o n t h e r a d i o
d i s p a t c h e r , e v e n t h o u g h 1 am f a r a n a aw ay s e n i o r a n d s o f o r t h
a n u s o o n , a n a w a s t h e n i g h t c o m m a n a c r , n i g h t s h i f t com m an d er
o f t h e N o r t h e r n D i s t r i c t 1 am s t i l l m ore o r l e s s u n a e r h i s
o r d e r s J u s t l i k e I w o u ld b e u n d e r L i e u t e n a n t C a d d e n 's i n a
h o m ic lu e e v e n e n o u g h I ’ m many y e a r s h i s s e n i o r .
Q *30 t h e a n s w e r i s i t w a s n 't y o u r J o b t o d o i t a n d
y o u d i d n ' t ?
A N o , s i r . I t i s my J o b t o c a r r y o u t t h e i n s t r u c t s
p e r i o d .
THL COURT; I n s t r u c t i o n s f r o m whom?
THL W H N j£& S x F rom t n e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r .
T n n COURT; W e l l , t h a t i s n o t q u i t e c l e a r t o me
e i t h e r . I t h o u g h t y o u s a i d a m om ent a g o t h a t i t w as y o u r
d e c i s i o n t o m ake t h e t u r n u p a n d now y o u s a y y o u w e r e c a r r y i n p
o u t t h e i n s t r u c t i o n s o f t h e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r ,
I t h i n k c o u n s e l w a n ts t o k n o w , a n d t h e C o u r t w a n ts
t o k n o w , who w as i t t n a c m ade t h e d e c i s i o n t o m ake t h e t u r n up
w a s i t y o u o n t h e b a s i s o f t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t h a d b e e n g i v e r
119
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y o u , o r w as i t t h e d i s p a t c h e r o r so m e o n e o v e r h im w ho m ade
t h e d e c i s i o n o n t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t h a d b e e n g i v e n h im ?
THB w r ilic & tt : W e l l , l e t ' s s a y i t t h i s w a y , h a v i n g
r e c e i v e d t h e i n f o r m a t i o n f r o m t h e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r , wno w as
d o i n g h i s J o e , i t t h e n b e c a m e ray j o b t o m axe t h e t u r n u p .
h o w , t h e o n i y o n e w ho c o u l d s t o p t h a t t u r n u p w o u jd
n a v e b e e n t h e n i g h t i n s p e c t o r w ho I w as u n a b l e t o c o n t a c t ;
a n d 1 am s u r e h e w o u ld n o t h a v e s t o p p e d i t .
BY MR. HABR1T*
Q i o u D a se t h a t l a s t s t a t e m e n t o n y o u r g e n e r a l
p r o c e u u r e ,
A T h e g e n e r a l p r o c e u u r e o f t h e d e p a r t m e n t i s t h a t
w h e n e v e r y o u a r e t o d o a n y t h i n g o u t o f t h e o r d i n a r y l i k e t h a t ,
o r t h e r e i s a s e r i o u s c r im e o r a n y t h i n g o u t o f t h e — i n j u r y t o
a n o f f i c e r o r s o m e t h in g l i k e t h a t , y o u a r e t o i n f o r m t h e n ig h t
i n s p e c t o r , i t i s a c o u r t e s y a s muon a a a n o r d e r . A f t e r a l l ,
i f h e i s r e s p o n s i b l e f o r t h e d i t y 1 f i g u r e , y o u k n o w , i t i s
o n l y a m a t t e r o f c o u r t e s y ,
Q i o u s a y y o u a r e s u r e h e w o u l d n 't h a v e s t o p p e u i t
b e c a u s e y o u w e r e a c t i n g i n a c c o r d a n c e w i t h r e g u l a r p r o c e u u r e ?
A T h a t ' s c o r r e c t , s i r .
Thai COURT: w h a t a i d y o u u n d e r s t a n d y o u w e r e r e
q u i r e d t o d o , w hen a i d y o u u n o e r a t a n a y o u w e r e r e q u i r e u t o mai<|e
a t u r n u p , w h e n e v e r w h a t ?
THd w ifN iS ii: J u d g e , I am g o in g by tw e n ty f o u r
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years experience in the police department. You ask me why
would I feel X was requii’cd to make that turn up?
THE COURT: Yes,
THE WITNESS: I would feel I'd been derelict in
ray duty if I hadn't mace the turn up,
THE COURT: Based on the information you received0
THE WITNESS: I received information that the
Veney brothers were there and, as I say, I have been in the
department twenty four years and it's never been done any
different,
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q And Just to make sure I understand you, you didn't
check on the dispatcher to find out who he had talked to and
got this information from?
A He Just said he had received a phone call,
Q And he didn't say from whom?
A Actually', it isn't his place to have to tell me,
THE COURT: Well, actually, of course, at the time
you went in you had found out who he received it from?
MR, NABRIT: Well, maybe not, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, he said the man who had tola him
he was the one who called the dispatcher.
THE WITNESS: No, counsel, I can't say that the
decision was made because of this latter conversation with the
person. I would have had to have gone anyhow, Judge, under the
679
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procedure ol" the department. There is no use trying to hide
behinu that.
BY MR. NABftIT:
k That was after you made your initial aurveiianoe?
A Yes. If that man had never come up to rue on the
street I would still have gone in. Of course, I had no inten
tion of having all those men witn m e. Lieutenant Schnabel anc
his men appearing on the scene was a bolt out of the blue to n
Of course, he later tola me that he nab come over to contact
me to make this turn up on Newington Avenue, which was not
made because I knew better on that one.
Q Novi, this man who came up to you on the street
who you thought was a reporter, is he in the court room todays
A Sir, I have been on medical ever since that mornir
I have had no chance to contact anyboay, this is my first day
back to work.
Q I asked you if this man is in the room today, the
man who talkea to you on the street?
A I wouldn't have the slightest idea. It was two
o'clock in the morning ...
THE COURT: The Afro has more than one reporter.
THE WITNESS: I don't even know he was an Afro
reporter. Your Honor, he was Just a clean cut and nice looking
fellow and he had such a nice manner with him, clean out and
all and I thought, well, the only person who would know some
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thing like this would be an Afro reporter* They are Jusi
things that go through your mind* that's all*
BY MR. NABR1T:
<4 how, the men who went inw this house with you
were Lieutenant Bchnabel, Bergeant Mathias, Officer McManus .
a Bergeant•
(* ....sergeant McManus, Officer hybe and Officer Brown?
A A n d T h e l a n .
W Theland?
a fhclan, f-h-e-l-a-n. Be would have been on one
of the cruising patrols. Be and Brown wore on the cruising
patrol, and also an officer from my district by the name of
Yealdhall, Y-e-a-l-c-n-a-1-1.
h how, the man you found upstairs in the bea you
thought his name was Lankford or something like that?
A Yes •
Lid you ask him where he worked?
A ho. 1 didn't.
<4 Lid he tell you?
A ho, he did not.
<4 Well, wnen did you find out that he worked at
the post office?
A He hau it in the paper. 1 nad nothing to go for
the last foux* weeks but reau the paper. You can't leave the
house on medication.
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THE COURT: How did you know he worked at the pos
office when you were there?
682
THE WITHEHo: It said so in the paper. Your Honor,,
Tiin COURT: wnen?
xiiE WIYE&do: when? I couldn't tell you the
exact day.
TiiH COURT* viu you know it when you were in the
house?
THE wxTRESE* ho, sir.
Tiiii vdURi; You uiun't know it in the hous~
THE WxYHEHH: Ho, sir, I didn't know it.
Tun wJeiii «... that he worked for the post off in
inn w xxhxijo; Ho, sir.
riiu COURT: x'hea wily uxu you say it was rough
geti-ing up ai four o'clock?
THE WiY'HEoHi It is rcugn getting up at four o'cl
THE COURT* You just testified that you said to h
or that you oaia that *0 one of the other officers.
THE wxThxwu: 1 sale to him, the nan has to get
up at rour o clock, here it xs two, it is rough getting up at
four,
YHE couRT: Row did you know that?
THE WxfWnoa: He told me he had to get up at four
o'clock. He said, I might as well stay up now, it's four
2 4
o 'cIock, I nave to get up at four
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BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Now, you showed the pictures you had to the man
who was in the beu?
A Yes, air.
Q *re you quite sure, are you quite positive that
you also showee them to the lady?
A Yes, sir, I had theta in toy left hand as a matter
of fact, and the picture I had, the personal picture picture
of Lari Veney was too large to put in my pocket. It was a
picture this big. (Indiesting.)
Q As she opened the uoor did she have a dog with hex)*
A Mo, sir.
Q A small one?
A Well, if she did it didn't bother me. I paid no
attention to it.
Q Did an officer go into the rear bedroom on the
second floor?
A Now, counsel, you told me before you didn't want
me to testify to anything I didn't overhear. The only thing
I can say is that I aid see Officer Brown coiae from that hall
and what I said, there's nothing here, let's go, I wa3 already
turning down the steps and Lieutenant Schnabel and somebody
else came from that hallway, too, so I'm going to have to
assume they were in a room. Ik . 5
MR. NABRIT; further questions
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MR. SAUSE: No further questions.
(Witness excused.)
THU COURT; Recess until ten minutes after two.
(court recessed at IjIO o'clock P.M., and recon
vened at 2:1b o'ulocx P.M*)
(A discussion was had at the bench off the record ,
Thereupon,
CLARENCE ROY was called to the stand and sworn
as a witness and, naving been first uuiy 3worn, was examined
and testified as follows:
THc. Cî iRHi State your name for the record, please
THE WITNESS: Sergeant clarence Roy, Baltimore C11;
Police Department, homicide Squad.
THE CLERK: Clarence Hoy?
THB WITNESSi R-o-y.
MR. SAUSE: Your Honor, again, we would like to
ask the Court's indulgence, rather than having these officers
sit here all day, we sent for some more officers at lunch time
and they haven’t arrived. Sergeant Roy pertains to the Allen
dale case and we would like to take him out of turn. We woulc
also like to indicate at thi3 time that he participated in
none of the other cases, in none of the other eight,
DIRECT EXAMINATION \
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q Sergeant, how long have you been a police officer?
685
\ A Fourteen years.
Q And how long have you been a sergeant?
A Two and a half years.
(« how, directing your attention to December 2oth of
last year, about four o'clock or so in the afternoon, die you
have occasion to go to 2303 Allendale Street?
A Yes, sir, 1 did.
Q how, Sergeant, tell His Honor the reason that you
went there, wnat you did after you went there, the conversatid
you may have heardffrom tne testimony of these other witnesse
Just tell us as fully but as concisely as you can?
THr. COURT* The other witnesses, you say from the
testimony of the other witnesses. Allendale has had only one
witness.
MR. SAU6L: That is right, sir. I waB trying to
direct him to give Your Honor a complete answer, along the Hr}
of the other witnesses. \
THR wITNLSS: Hometime around four P.M. on Decembe
the 28th, 1904, 1 recelveu information from Lieutenant cadden
and Lieutenant Glover that they had received certain inforraatj
as to tne Veney brothers being present at the address of 2303
Allendale Street. In company with other members of the squad
at that time we proceeded to this area of Allendale and Gwynns
Falls Parkway. Of course, X was in tne advance car with
Lieutenant Cadden, Sergeant Hughes, Detective De Paula and
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Detective Bozak. We went into the area of 2303 Allendale and
looked the property over, then we returned to the rest of the
felloWs and tolu them Just what the area looked like and how
the house could be — entrance could be gained from the rear
as to covering the back and the front of the property.
When the officers entered, which was several men
wearing the armored vests. Lieutenant Cadden there, after
proceeuing into this dwelling behind the men inthe armorea
I imagine
vests, they stayed into the property/aboat four, maybe six
minutes, one of the men then proceeded from the first floor
to the second floor which appeared to be an apartment separate
from the first floor, and 1 think that was Detective De Paula,
he hollered aown for a light, a hand light. I, of course,
summoned Sergeant button who was standing close by the emer
gency vehicle to bring a light. As Sergeant button went up
on the porch ...
THE COURT: Where were you then?
Trid WITNESS: I was standing in the street in fron
of this location behina one of our parked automobiles.
After Sergeant Sutton went up on the porch with
the light X then went into the doorway of this dwelling and
Lieutenant Cadden was Chen talking to a young, coloreu female,
the child appeared to be about ten, maybe eleven years old.
And at this time the only part of the conversation I hearc was
that her mother and father were working and they would be in
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sometime after five thirty. With this I feel as though the
lieutenant then gave this child a card, one of hiB calling
cards with his name imprinted on same. The rest of the men
were called from the Interior of the first floor and we left
the property.
BY MR. SAU3Bt ” ™ • ------ _
Q Now, Sergeant, ao you, of your own knowledge, know
whether any other Negro officers, police officers participated
\
in any of these searches in connection with these arrest
warrants 2
A Yea, sir, Detective Oliver Walker. Of course,
there were two,sometimes as many as three Negro members of the
emergency unit that would accompany us on the particular turn
up.
Q There are Negro police officers — His Honor aBked
A
that the other day and we are trying to develop that there
were other Negro polioe officers on the emergency units?
A Yes.
Q By the emergency units you mean C.?« 11 ...
A And 12.
Q ... and 12?
A Yes, sir.
Q Which were the emergency vehicles? \
A Yes, sir, 11 and 12 units. \
Q And as such they received special trainilrig in the
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handling of that special equipment that is contained in those
vehicles?
A Yes,
ft t'ia you or anyone in your presence show any pictur
to the occupants of the Allendale Street address?
A No, sir, not in my presence and I, myself, didn't,,
MR* dAddd: Your witness,
CRObS RXAMINATIQN
m MR. NABRIf;
Q Sergeant, can you aescribe for the Court what thin
property looks lixe?
A From the interior or the exterior?
ft From the outside,
A It appeared to be a two story, clapboard dwelling
with what appeared to be an attic. I don't know whether it
was occupied but it appeared to be an attic up on the, what
would be the third floor,
ft You didn't enter the house at all?
A I stood into the — well, you could say that I was
inside, I stood inside the doorway proper that is leading into
the .,,
ft First floor?
A ,,, first floor.
ft Now# when you are standing in front of this house
on the walk to the street, am I correct that there is a door
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689
that leads into the i'irst floor right on the front, is that
correct?
\A xhat is true,
h Now, then in the same spot to the left around on
tne slue of the porch ia there another aoor there?
A foe, there is,
tt ana did you Iook into that side door?
a No, sir, I diun’t,
Q Lad officers enter that siae aoor?
A Yes, sir, they ala,
(4 ho you know where that side aoor leads?
A I assume that it leu upstairs.
Q And those doors are some feet apart would you say?
a I could approximate the distance being about fif
teen feet.
The approximate distance?
A bure.
Q.
A
be about
A
Q
A
Q
Now, aid officers go into both doors?
Yes, sir, they did.
Now, the young colorec child who you estimated to
ten years old, you thought?
I would say about ten years old, yes.
bne was in the first floor door in the front?
yes, sir,
hla you see any other children in there? \
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A I think I heard voices of several children* X vioul
say more than one person, other than the child I was com;onte\v\
with, was also in the house and I feel as though it was the
\bedroom ̂ which was to the right of the eoor as you enter,
Q N Did other officers go into that first floor? Tell
me what officers went into that house?
A Well, at the time, let's put it this way, I wasn't
interested in who went into the door as long hb they were
police officers. Now, Just who went in the uoor other than
Lieutenant Cadden and men wearing armored vests, I coulon't
tell you, \
Q But Lieutenant Cadden and the men wearing armored
vests, they went into the first floor door?
A Yes, sir, \
Q How long did they stay inside?
A Well, as I say, they were in about six minutes at
the most before I entered, I would say over all it was less
than eight minutes,
Q And is it true that there were no adults in that
first floor? \
A I didn't see any.
Q You didn't see any?
A NO, 0lr, X didn't,
Q Now, did you see or encounter an older child, a
teenager seventeen or eighteen returning home while you were
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691
there at that address?
A No, sir, I didn't,
Q Or in fact two teenagers?
A\ I cildn ‘ t see any,
ThUi COURT* Is this 23*̂ 3 Allenuale?
MR, NABRIT1 Yes, Your honor. If I might explain,
Mrs, Booth testified she lived in the third floor apartment
and her sister's family lives in the second floor apartment
and some other people lived ,,,
Iht. COURT: \There wasn't very much Information to
the first floor as I remember,
MR, NABRITi Mrs. Booth stayed in her apartment
upstairs,
THE COURT: I was trying to relate this first
floor with anything I had heard and it didn't relate.
BY MR. NABRITi
Q wnat officers that you know of went into the side
door that leaas upstairs?
A I do know Detective Oe Paula went into the side
door, which I assume led to the second and third floors. Ther
after I heard a call for a light. I then also assumed that it
was De Paula, Sergeant Sutton was standing nearest tne emer
gency vehicle that was parked in front of the location so I
hollered for nira to oring a lignt. Alter he proceeded to go
into the dwelling itself X then went to where Lieutenant Oadde
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wab standing*
Q When Lieutenant Cadden and hiB group came out or
the first floor, dla they then go to the second ana third
floors?
A 1 was the first one out of the first floor. I
was standing, as I said, right into the doorway itself of the
household proper, and I left ana then the men followed me out*
Now, whether anyone went to the side door which would lead up
stairs, I don’t know* I didn’t pay that much attention to it.
Q
>
And who was in charge of the group, was it
Lieutenant Cadden?
A Lieutenant Cadden as well as Lieutenant Clover.
Q Were both of them there?
A Yes, sir, they were the ranking officers from our
outfit.
Q Wao Lieutenant Glover in the house tliat you saw?
A I don't think that he did, I can't say whether he
did or didn’t. I don't think that he did.
Q Now, what time did you get to this house with the
advance car? \
A Sometime after four f.M, The exact time I couldn'
tell you. I do know it was still daylight hours when we left
there. As I said, we were only there /> afcter of eight minute
Q Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought you said that
you first went with a survellance crew?
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A Yes.
Q Then you went to report to the main group and came
back again?
A \Yea.
first
How much time elapsed between the/survellance and
the actual entry?
• A X could approximate, say about twenty minutes.
Q About twenty minutes.
Bid your surveiiance team, the surveilance group
included Bozak, Hughes, Beteotive Be Paula and yourself?
A Yea,
Biu any of that group conduct any interviews in
the neighborhood or make any inquiries about this household?
A
Q
No, sir, we didn’t.
You all stayed in your automobile?
A
Q
Yes, sir, we did.
Ana do you recall which of the lieutenants, Cadden
or Glover, made the decision that you would search this house?
A Well, I received the information after Lieutenant
adden had received it. Now, whether he received it himself
or from someone else, x do not know but he was njy commanding
officer at that time ana X followed orders.
Q You did not decide to do it yourself, to make the
search?
A No, sir. No, he gave me enough reason to go along
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694
with it bo ̂ therefore, I carries out who order «>
Q Did you receive any information concerning the
Veney brothers ana this household from anyone else other than
your fellow police officers?
h i, lyoeUi uian't, no, sir.
<* *nu you are assignea to homicide?
v
a Yea, sir, I am.
<4 in coiiauccing homicide investigations in the past
in connection with other crimes or other arrests, have you
ever hau occasion to have the emergency unit accompany you to
a place?
h I don't think I have ever personally, no.
MR- NAIiRiJ.* ho further questions.
MR. BAULc.: No questions. Thank you. Sergeant.
fitness excused.)
MR. MURPHY* Your Honor, the Court expressed an
interest in the emergency run sheets, c.P. 11 and C.P. 12,
and we have them,
THB COURT* Do you want to come up here then and
talk it out.
(Discussion at the bench off the recorc.)
MR. BAUBL: Somewhat reluctantly we will continue
with Lieutenant Cadden out of turn.
Yhn COURT* Do you have any other witnesses coming
in today?
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MR. SAUSE: Two others.
\ MR. MURPHYi Sergeant McManus, who was th< Sujer-
\
visor of the emergency unit and also the taxi oab driver who\\was here the other day hut we didn't reach him and is being
alerted now and should here. We are going a little faster
than we thought we would, I think it presents a better plctur^
to take them in propel- order.
THE COURT: if you are going to finish within the
time you suggested I don't mind putting in this time reading
plaintiff's briefs, I've got %o read them sometime and I mighf;
as well sit here and read them. Maybe you ought to reau them,
too,
MR, MURPHY: If we could dp that, that would be
much more to our liking,
THE COURT: All right.
(Recess.)
THE COURT: Are you ready to call a witness?
MR. MURPHY: Yes, Your Honor.
We will call Mr. Albert Gooddale,
T h e r e u p o n , ______ •------ -------- ---
ALBERT GOODDALE was called to the stand and sworn
as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
THE CLERK: State your name for the record?
THE WITNESS: Albert Gooddale.
i 4"1/ b
696
1 ! DIRECT EXAMINATION
•) BY MR. MURPHY*
:t
A
Q Mr* Gooauale, what is your a c c i r e s s , sir?
• A 4/39 Amberly Avenue.
f> Q How old are you?
(i A I am fifty six.
7 Q Aro you a licensed taxi cab driver in Baltimore
s City?
!) A Yes, sir.
10 Q How long have you been driving a taxi cab?
11 A Fifteen years.
12 Q Mr. Gooddale, I direct your attention to January
• 1965> around twelve noon, did you have occasion to pick up
14 two ladies in front of the Veterans Administration Building
15 in downtown Baltimore?
l(i A Yes, sir.
17 ^ What was that location?
IS A That was at St. Paul and Fayette Streets.
19 Q Now, would you look around this court room and see
20 if you see either of the ladies that you picked up that day?
21 A Yes, this lady on the end here.
• Q Wearing the red .,,
22 A Yes.
24 MR. MURPHY 1 What is your name, m s ‘am?
25 MRS, SNOWDEN* Mrs. Snowden,
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MR. MURPHYs What is that?
MRS. SNOWDKN: S-n-o-w-d-e-n.
BY MR. MURPHY:
Q Do you see any other, Mr. Goodaale?
A I’m not sure.
Q What happened, Mr. Gooddale, after you picked up
the two ladies? would you relate what happened in your cab?
A Well, as a rule I don’t listen to conversations
and X Just overheard an argument between the two ladies and
one said to the other ...
Q before you tell me what one said, where were you
taking these ladles, the address?
A The first address was 1900 block of Druid Hill
Avenue.
Q What was the other address?
A 2000 block of North Monroe.
Q Now, when you cay, you identify one lady as speak
ing to the other would you refer to them as the Druid Hill
Avenue lady ...
A Yes.
Q, ... or the North Monroe Avenue lady?
A Yes,
Q Who said what to whom?
A It was some kind of an argument about money that
they came down to get, money-to try to get a pension increased
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698
or something to that effect, and one lady, the mother of the
son, she was arguing with her and told her that she didn’t
know how to take care of business or anything like that and
they got to arguing ana the one, this lady, the Druid Hill
Avenue lady bold her that she aidn’t have sense enough to get
the Increase of what they were trying to get, the pension in
creased. So the other lady told her, she said, I wouldn’t
tell you that. She called her a fool, I think. Yes, she said;
you’re a fool, you don't know how bo take care of business or
something to that effect. And the other lacy told her, I
wouldn't call you a fool. And she said, well, you’re like youi
son, she said, he’s a fool, when he gets full of liquor he
shoots a police, and that’s all I heard.
Q And were they whispering in the cab, Mr. Gooddale,
the ladies?
A Pardon.
Q I cay, were they whispering?
A They wasn’t whispering. The other lady told her
to shut her mouth, she 3aid.
Q Now, you said the other lady told her to shut her
mouth, who said that?
A The mother of the 3on.
Q And you were taking the mother of the son to the
Monroe Street address, is that correct?
A That was on the way to the 1900 block of Druid HilL
i ? p
699
1 Avenue.
•) Q Which fare hid you let out first?
A m is laay her on the end.
4 4 m e .Druid hill Avenue fare?
f> ii m e î ruiu niil Avenue,
(i * fnen you proceeaed to Monroe Street?
7 a l e a .
s Q how, after you had let out tne Monroe Street lady
!) what did you then do, 11’ anything?
10 A x atopped the first police cruiser that I saw and
11 told them about it.
12 V A n d now long after you let the ...
12 A 1 waa tninking about the police that got shot on
14 the 2200 blocK of North Monroe Street and I thought that might
15 be the case of it. I didn’t know.
10 MR, NABRIT: Move to strike what the witness was
17 thinking about, Your Honor.
IS _______ THE COURT* Strike it out.
10 BY MR. MURPHY:
20 Q Mr. Gooddale, may I ask you, how long was it after
21 you left the Monroe Street fare out that you stopped a polloe
•_w cruiser?
25 A Within fifteen minutes.
24 Q Xs that the first police cruiser you saw?
25 A Yes, sir.
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officers?
What did you then do when you Btopped the cruiser
I told them about it. Just what I did heri,
iuu you mention the Veney brothers to the police
a KO| sir.
xou uiun't mention any specif ic case?
A ho, s x r .
Q how, alter you were talning to the police officers
in the police cruiser .•.
A The first thing i thougnc of was this police that
was shot in tut cap in the IciiOO block of North Monroe street,
i aidn't nave the Venoy brothers even in my mind*
bust specific inoleant, you say a police officer
was shot in tout area, what Knowledge uo you have of that
incident?
A only wnat i reae in the paper,
W what was that?
m ‘fiUit a police was snot, 1 tniruc it was in his cap
iie was then knocKou uown in tne time he got shot in the cap.
Q ho you know where ho was ahot?
i tnink xt was tne dZlOO Clock of North Monroe otre
About how far waa onat from ...
iiu- todiVl: mlhat was chat, a£Q0 block oi what?
Tibi wi-uiobSi North Monroe street. That was ceve
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BY MR. MURPHYt
Q How many blocks away was that from the house or th^
Monroe Street fare?
A About two blocks, 1 think.
Q After stopping the police cruiser, what happened
after that? You told the police officers about this conversa
tion that you heard in the cab, then what happened? Did you go
with the police anywhere?
A I also told another police,
Q Tolu another what?
A Told another policeman.
Q You mean you stopped one cruiser and had a convers^
tion with them and then btopped another?
A YeB, air.
Q What did you tell the second group of police officers?
A The same story that I told them.
Q Wny did you do that, Mr. Qooddale, after stopping
one police cruiser, why did you tell the same story twice?
A Well, I wanted to be sure that — I guess I was
a little over anxious to solve some of this crime that's going
on.
Q Weil, did you subsequently go to the police depart
ment with any police officers?
A pardon me, sir.
Q X say, did you subsequently go to the police head-
A ft
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quarters with any of the officers that you stopped that day?
A I went out to the Northwestern later in the day,
Q At your own instance or at the request of the polio
A At tne request of the police.
Q Who uiu you talk to there?
A 1 uon't remember the officer1a name,
Q ho you remember what time it was?
A 1 uon‘t recall hie name,
Q ho you remen&er what time it was, Mr. Goodaale?
A It was just about quarter of three.
Q Anu did the police officers there question your
further concerning, this incident?
A Nothing more than, they took down what I told them.,
the secretary diu,
Q, hla you sign a statement?
A Yes, sir.
Q Mr. Gooucale, aid you see either of the ladie3
that you picked up at the police station that same day?
A Yes, sir.
Q which of the ladies did you see, both of them or
one?
A I saw both of them,
U Lid you identify them for the police that day?
A Well, no, sir. X told the police they were out th«
the ladies were out there. I told him that I saw them out in
703
1 hall.
‘> Q Did you apeak to them?
2 A Or in the corridor, rather.• 4 Q Die* you apeak to them at the station, hr. Good dale
f) A No.
(i Q Mr, Qowdoale, are you related to anybody in the
7 police department?
s A No, nobody, sir.
!) Q had you ever seen either of the ladies that you
10 picked up that aay before?
11 A No, sir.
i IA
12 Q Did you know either of them before?
• 12 A Wo, sir.
14 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.
15 Ntou may examine.
hi CROSS EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. NABRIT:
18 Q for, Gooduale, what time was it when you picked up
1!) the two ladies?
2 0 A I would say it was around about one o’clock.
21 Q Around about one o'clock?
• 22 A Yes, May be a little after, 1 don’t recall exactly
22 what tlioc it was, -N
24 Q And where did you drive first?
25 A Peruon. X
704
1 q Where did you drive first?
*> A To the 1900 block 01 Druid Hill,
Q \ Anti how long did it take you to get there?
• A Well, X didn't time mysoli.
f> Q Well, auoutv
(i A X1g say about twenty minutes, 1 guess.
7 Q And rrom there to the Monroe Street address, how
S long did it take?
!t A fifteen wore minutes, I would say. About fifteen
10
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minutes,
\
11 TifE COURT: HOw long?
12 THE wiTNRSS: About XITteen minutes,\
• THE COURT: Fifteen minutes to go from the 1900 block of Druid\
14 Hill Avenue to the 2000 block of Monroe?
15 THE WXTMKSS! Well, ten or fifteen.
1(5 BY MR, NABRIT*
17 Q Do you remember how much the fare was?
18 A $1.35# I believe, $1 ,3 0.
10 Q I can't hear you. \
20 A I think it was $1.30 or $1.35. I don’t remember.
21 s, Did you get a tip?
• A Yes, air.
28 Q How much?
24 A X don’t recall.
25 Q Where did you encounter the first police cruiser,
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where did you see the first police cruiser?
\
A At North Avenue and Longwood, I believe it was,
Q And how many officers were in the car?
A \ One officer, and one officer was inside the store
and he came back while I waa there,
Q Which one of them did you talk to?
A I don’t even know their names,
Q Did you tell what you heard to one or both of them?
A Juss the one, I had finished when the other officsr
had returned,
Q Now, can you remember, were you excited or — when
you were talking to them?
A No, not excited,
Q Can you remember what you told the police?
A Not woi'd for word. I Just told them about picking
up the two ladies and the conversation and where I took them
to,
Q Tell me all you can remember about what you told
the police?
A I just told them that I might have some help, a
load for some of the crime or of a policeman getting shot in
the 2200 block of Monroe Street.
Q And what else did you tell them?
A That was all,
Q Did you tell him about the conversation i,n the cab?
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Q
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Yc b .
What did you tell him about the conversation?
Well, X told him the two ladles were arguing and
they seemed to be In a hot argument and one called tiu other
a fool, that she didn't know how to take care of business or
she couldn't have got any increase if it hadn't been for her
if she hadn't have went with her, and the other one told her,
she Bald, you shouldn't call me a fool, I wouldn't call you
that. So she said, also, that son of yours is a fool
Q Which one said that?
A The lady, Mrs,, on the end.
Q The one you took to Druid Hill?
A Pardon me. \
Q
A
Q
A
a police.
The one you took to Druid Hill?
Yes, air.
What did she say?
She said, you son gets full of liquor and he shooti
Q Now, were you paying attention to your driving
when you were driving along? \
A Oh, yes,
Q Did you turn your head around and look in the back
seat?
A No, sir.
Q How could you tell which one said what?
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A 1 know It was this lady that said it.
Well, you know now that you were mistaken?
THE COURT: What does that question mean, do you
know now that you were mistaken, I don’t understand that.
MR. NABRIT: In what you heard.
THE COURT: What is that?
MR. NABRIT: In what he heard.
MR. MURPHY: I object to It.
THE COURT: 1 don’t understand It. I wouldn't kno
how to answer it if I were a witness. You are asking If he
knows now that he was mistaken in what he heard. If that is
the question, g o you know now that you were mistaken in what
you heard?
THE WITNESS: No, I am not mistaken.
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q About what time was it you first saw the first
police cruiser?
A Weil, I didn't have a watch, I don't recall Just
what time it was. It was around — it was after one o'clock.
I would say it was 1:45 whenever I stopped the first police.
Q How much later was it you saw the second police
cruiser.
\
A Well, the second police, it was — i\was at Balti
more and Frankllntown. \
Q How much later was that after you talked to the
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I would say about fifteen minute& „
About what time would that make it?
About two o'clock.
About two o'clock, and what ala you tell that
\
police officer? \
I told him the same thing jl tola the other police,
\
A
Q And in exactly the came words?
A Maybe not the very same words but I tola him what
'• \
I heard, what I recallea hearing.
Q Did you tell him that you had already told it to
another policeman? V
A Pardon.
Q Did you tell the second policeman that you had
already seen another policeman fifteen minutes before?
A No.
And reported the same conversation?
No, I didn't tell him.
You didn't tell the seconu poiicec: ?
No. r
Why not?
MR• MURPHY: Your Honor ,«.
THE COURTs You openeu the door, he can go through
Q
A
Q
A
Q
it.
THK WITNESS: I don't know why I didn't, 1 didn't
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709
tell him. I'm not sure. I'm sure I didn't tell him.\ fV
BY MR, NABRITt
Q Do you know who-was the second police cruiser one
V
officer or two?
A Two,
Q Did you tell it to Doth of them or one?
A Yes.
Q Both of them?
A Both of them.
Q What did they do after you told them this?
A They thanked me and X got in the cab and drove
\away.
Q have you ever been arrested, sir, or been in
trouble with the lav;?
A No, sir.
MR, MURPHf* I object.
THE COURT* Wait a minute. If he's been convicted
"4
of an infamous crime it would affect his credibility. I
suppose that is the purpose you are asking it.
All right, objection overruled* Have you ever bee
convicted of a crime other than a traffic offense or something
like that, have you ever been convicted of a crime?
THE WITNESS: No crime, no, sir.
BY MR. NABRITj
Q Have you ever been hospitalized for any mental ill;
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A No, sir.
Q How good is your hearing? Have you ever had it
by a doctor?
A \ Hearing is ali right.
When lt» the last time you had it tested?
Every time I have my license renewed, chauffer’s
\
\
\
Did you tell any newspapers about this?
Ho. \
THE COURT: Has the testimony of Mrs. Shepherd
been written up?
MR. WURJPKYi \Not written up that X know of.
THE COURT; 1 was looking at my notes of her testi
mony and I think we nac better have just one or two excerpt3 «
It doesn’t have to be done right now. I am going to ask Mr.
Owens to write up a couple bits of the testimony to be sure
that my notes are correct.
MR. NABRITt Coula I have a moment, Your Honor?
THE COURT* Any more questions?
MR. NABRIT; Yes, sir, one or two.
THE COURT* All right, \
ME. NABRIT* May I proceed? \
THE COURT* Yes.
BY MR. NABRIT;
Q Am I correct in understanding you that\ll you knew
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711
about this alleged crime that occurred on Monroe Street is
what you read in the newspapers, is that right?
A That's right.
\Q You had no personal knowledge about any crime,
about what happened?
A That's right.
Q And all — so that the only knowledge or informa
tion you had at all was what you thought you heard in the
taxi cab, is that correct?
A That is what X did hear.
0 That iB the only thing you knew about it?
\
A YeB, air,
Q Is that correct?\ *•
A That's right.
Q Had you seen the reward offers in the newspapers
for information?
THE COURT* For what?
MR. NAHRIT* Reward offers for information leading
to the apprehension, for information leading to ...
THE COURT: Apprehension of what? Is there any
reward? Your question assumes that there was a reward offered
for Oreenmount or Monroe Street. There wasn't any reward
offer I've heard of about Monroe Street. If you offer to
prove there was, of course, you may ask the question.
THE WITNESS: The Veney brothers wasn't even men-
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f
Cloned.\
BY MR. NABRIT;
Q Wasn’t even mentionea where, sir? You said the
Veney brothers weren't mentioned, where?
A In the cab at all.
Thji COURT: What I am asking you, is there a
reward for the \rrest of the Veney brothers?
MR, nX.BRIT: May it please the Court, the initial
news accounts of this incident on Monroe Street said that the
Veney brothers were suspected in that crime as well.
MR. MURPHYl I object to his testifying. Every
body is a suspect when somebody shoots a police officer and
I object to that strenuously, Your Honor.
MR. KABRIT: I will offer the clippings.
ATHE COURT: It is not evidence and it can be
stricken as evidence, but if you have any evidence.
MR. NAERIT: I will be sworn and testify,
THE COURT: The question I have is, what the rewar
was for and this is the first time I have heard of the Monroe
Street shooting, the first time I have heard anything in an
attempt to connect it with the Veney brothers, the first time
I have heard that thtre v.’as any reward that night have anythin
to do with Monroe Street and before this question is askea I
\
have got to know what it is clearly that you are asking.
MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, I don’t know what further
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713
explanation I can make.
THE COURT* Well, ask him. Maybe he will under
stand better than I do if you are asking the questions but
\
the question was very uncertain to me and I don’t know what it
would mean to him the way you put it; but ask him any question
you think is proper and the conversation we have had may
clarify it for him.
V
Go ahead.
BY MR. NABRIT:
Q Were you aware that the newspapers had offered —
V
a newspaper had offered a reward for Information leading to
the capture of the Veney brothers?
\
A Yes, sir.
Q And you knew that before?
A I knew that. That was the newspapers that offered
the reward, though, wasn't it?
Q Yes. \
Do you read the News American?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Yes, both papers.
Both papers?
Yes, sir.
Regularly?
Yes, sir, \
MR, NABRIT* Your Honor, I still haven’t understoo<
Your Honor’s ruling on the evidence matter this morning, T*hetl
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714
>r not if I ask to see a copy of the statement this witness
gave to the police, which X understand him to say was taken
down by a secretary, whether by asking to see that I am thereto
bound ••• \V
THE COURT: No, you are not because that is part
of what you wqre entitled to get a summary of, at any rate,
from the Junior .bar, that is the detail. Anything that deals
with the information the police have leading to the raise that
you have put on, and certainly leading to the information the
police had with respect to this.
Do you have anything, any written report from him7
MR, MURPHY ou mean from this witness, Your
Honor? \
THE COURT: Yes.
avMR. MURPHY: We have a statement, yes, sir.
THE COURT: Is there any reason tfwt shouldn't be
offered?
MR. MURPHY: Well, 1*11 be delighted to offer that
Your Honor, but X think it will get in Reaper into the rest
of the police report.
MR. NABRITt I wouldn’t ask it to be offered,
I ask for an opportunity to examine it. \
THE COURT: The question is, my feeling about it
is this, that I wanted counsel for the plaintiffs to have lnfob
mation as to what the police had offered to him or made 3vail-
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715
able to him pursuant to the subpoena the information the polio
had with respect to the patricular eight items they have here
as to what information the police had before they authorised
\
their searches.
\
W also saiu they ooulu have it generally, Now,
these are the ones that are being pursued and if this man made
a report to the p o l i c e in *,he oruinary course of business and
not a report which was obtained as part of your work product
in preparation lor this case, X think it should be offered in
evidence, Anu you can show it to the plaintiff and he can use
it on cross examination#
Then if he’s opened the door and whether it makes
it automatically admissible because he asKca for it, X think
it might be admissible as a report raaue in the ordinary course
of business. This is oruinary course of police business it
seems to me rather tnan any preparation. I don't know whether
the statement was maau before the ,,,
MR. WABRIT: He testified it was.
THK COURT: It was Just after they entered the
house.
Mh» WAHRITi He testified that it was when he was
later — well, let*'s clear it up now.
BY MR. NABRIT:
<4 L>iu you sign a statement down at the police statio
A That’s right.
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Q Where was this?
A At the Northwestern.
Q\ About what time was that?
A \ That vjas about three o'clock, maybe a little after
<4 This was after ...
\
THE COURT* It was after the entry and while the
two women were at the police station, is that right?
THE WI^NEBB* That's right.
THE COURT* He said he saw them in the station whe
he was there,
MR. NABRIT* I'd like to see it.
THE COURT* If this contains any' leaas, I think
that part should be blocked out, anything that doesn't deal
with this particular matter ought to be blocked out in some
way but counsel may see it with that understanding.
(A document was presented to Mr. Nabrit.)
KR. NABRIT* No further questions,
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MURPHYs
Q Mr. Gooduale, I show you a copy of the statement
purportedly signed by you and ask you if you can identify that
A Yes, sir.
MR, MURPHY: Your Honor, I would like to introduce
it as a Defenuant's Exhibit, the statement of Albert O o o d d a l e .
THE CLERK* Defendant'3 Exhibit No. 3 marked in
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717
\videncc,
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\ (The statement or Albert
Oooddale was marked in evidenc
as &6ienuant's Exhibit No., 3.)
\ MR, huujtTa j No i urtati questions,
rhank you very ruaca, Mr* Gooduale,
lid- tOORTi wait a minute. Now that it is in ^ou
may want to eroita examine,
hay 1 take a quick look at it, then you can have i
ail right.
\RECRQSE EXAMINATION
BY MR, NABRXT: \
Q Hr, Goocduid, was this statement typed up while
1 \
you were there in the police station?
V
A xes, sir, \
Q Ana it nas a time on it, was that time right then,
ao you know?
I uon’t «...it
k,
A
Bpeak louder so everybody can hear you,
X oian’C have a watch ana I aon’t know exactly.
I dlun’t see the time. It was around about tnat time,
\
Q Tell me one more time what you recall t.iis lady
from Druid Hill Avenue said to the otheV one about the son
being a fool and what followed that?
A then he was drunk, when he a carted drinking liquor
Q Now, tell to me as best you can remember what you
718
1 heard her say?
•) MR. MURPHY: Your Honor, I object, that is very
:( repetitious, This is about the fourth time around.
4 MR. NABRIT: I want to see what the wintess's
f) present recollection is.
(> MR. MURPHY: You asked him that five minutes ago.
7 THE COURT: I will overrule the objection. So far
s it doesn’t strengthen his testimony, Hr, Murphy. But I think
<) he is entitled to try once more.
10 THE WITNESS: What'* the question.
11 THE COURT: What you heard the woman say, the one
12 back there in the second row, what you heard her say about
12 the other woman’s son.
14 THE WITNESS: She said he was a fool when he drink\ s
15 liquor, that he shot a police.
1« MR. NABRIT: Your witness,
17 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much, Mr. Gooddale.
\
I S THE COURT: You may be excused, \
\
11) (witness excused.) \
2 0 Thereupon,
21 JAMES J. CADUEN, was called to the stand as a wit-
22 ness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and test!
22 fied as follows:
24 THE CLERK: State your name for the record?
25 THE WITNESS: James J, Cadden, C-a-d-d~e~n, Lieute 1-
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ant, Homicide Squad, Baltimore City Police Department,
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SAUSL;
Q Lxeutenant, how long have you been a member of the
police force?
A Sixteen years this forthcoming April, sir,
<4 ana how long have you been a lieutenant?
A A little over a year, sir.
719
1 3 6
Now, Lieutenant ...
THE COURT: Just a moment. 1 think you had better
have some ground rules, I gather the Lieutenant will be on
longer than the rest of the oay, that you hadn't intended to
\\put him on tooay,\
\
MR, SiiUoLj That is right, sir,\
THE COURT; The usual rule that once you put a
\
witness on you can't talk to him while he is on the stand, oer«
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tainly not talk to m m wnile he,is unuer croBs examination.
It seem3 to me that the fair — I suggest this, that you ask
him about sucn matters that you are willing to ask him about
\
without talking about them afterwards ana .that you not talk to
him about any matters that he testified to today; but if you
want to go over any matters tnat ne hasn't covered today, that
the rule won't aply to conversations about other raatters to
night since he obviously is one of the men who has co be inter
viewed about developing many of these matters.
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MR. SAUSKi We have to discuss with him among
other things, Your Honor, the getting of witnesses and so fort
THE COURT t That la all right, you may talk to hin
but you may not talk to him About anything you examine him
about today and when you want to come to a break on that, let
me know. We will cover as much as we can,
MR. SAUSKt Thank you.
BY MR. SAUS!':
Q Lieutenant, you are familiar with the warrants of
arre3t which were issued for two persons in connection with
certain incidents arising on Oreenmount Avenue, I think it wai
the 2000 block, on Christmas Eve of last year, is that correct
A 7. am, rir. I swore out the warrants.
0 And Lieutenant, you are a member of the homicide
squad, you indicated?
A That is correct.
Q And as such this investigation came under your
supervision, in that correct?
A Thst i* right.
Q Now, ther^ is a captain of the homicide squad who
is over you, is that correct?
A That is right, sir.
Q And th>-n, of course, an inspector who 13 generally
the supervising authority over him?
A night.
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Now, how many lieutenants are there in the horalcic
squad?
A Vivo, sir,\V \
Q You ano?
A Lieutenant Glover anc myself,
Q Lciutennnt Glover testified the other clay that yoii
and he doth participated in the investigations surrounding the
two warrants ?
A ‘inat xs correct, sir*
Q Now, would you tell His Honor the- manner of oper
ation, the method of operation and without getting into any
specific cases, unless you deem it necessary by way of illustrs
tion at this time, how you and Lieutenant Glover proceeded witi
this investigation?
A Yes, sir.
Well, an Christmas five evening about 9; 45 or ten
o'clock I responded to the scene on Greenmount Avenue and from
there to the Saint Joseph's Hospital, Prom Saint Joseph's
Hospital I went to the Northern District and commenced the
investigation. \
THE COURT: I think this one factor isn't quite
clear, this was a robbery of a liquor 3torc? \
MR* SAUSE: Yes, Your Honor*
THE COURT; And the lieutenant who wa3 shot, shot
\
during the robbery or close to the place of the perpetrators
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or\ the incident?
\ MR. SAUSE: If Your Honor please, I thought t.iat
we had stipulated for the purposes of this case that one para
graph of the answer recitea those facts.
THE COURT: All right, that is fine. I just wasn
quite sure. \
MR. HAUSE: And I think that is paragraph 10-A on
page 4 of the answer. Is that the allegation there?
THE COURT: It just says during the course of it,
that is all.
MR, HAUHE: By one or more of the perpetrators of
said armed roobery.
THE COURT: All right,
BY MR. SAUHxi:
Q And there was a police lieutenant who was shot,
going back to His Honor's question?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q And was he a uniformed officer?
A He was, sir.
Q Now, proceed. You went to St. Joseph's Hospital,
then what happened?
A inen, of course, I went to the Northern District t<
continue the Investigation.
\
At the Northern District I learned that a suspect
\\\was in custody.
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THE COURT: The Northern you Bay?
\ THE WITNESS: Wort hem, yes, Fir.
\ \
BY MR. SAUSE*
q is urounmount in the Nor t no it* district?\ -
a ica, i»i,r. it woo soiaewnau unusual tncre, thu cria(te
was ooramitteu in tnu Northern district but a Northeastern
bistriot lieutenant was snot.
ijib dOUnr: note too line run aovrn the tnidaie of
Oreenmount?
I'tiu UXiuNiXiO; .Yes, sir.
THE COURT: But lit was in the Northern district?
iiU> wii'unoB: That, is correct. lie responses to
the alarm. \
BY MR • os dox. j \
Vi ail right, wouio you proceed?
v\A ox course, x eommenoeu interrogation ox‘ the suspect
■
xn question ana, ox course, we iearneu nothing at that point
Y .
While x was at the Nortncrn instructing officers
V
pursuing whia investigation lieutenant GiovA$- cailec from nome
That was aro-nU eleven, eleven Cwxrty, He asked if X needed
any help ano ne would summon some additional men\anu, of cour^ej
i felt couxu use aii tne help available. And he^,arrived
V
snortly tnux'eaiter, within Appro ly .dirty oi- irety minuses.
Ox ooux ue, otnar officers wno arrived were the detoctlyVa
robbery uquau anu iiomxcide detectives to continue this invest!25
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Then Lieutenant Glover and I, Sergeant Hughes and
Detective Conroy continued our interrogation of the suspect ii
custody. Through this interrogation we learned the identity
of his accomplices in tnia matter. Of course, certain other
information was obtained and put on paper.
\
The along about three A.M. Lieutenant Glover took
a detail of men with him. As I recall it was Detective Bozak;
Detective De faula, some other officers I don't recall offhanc
He suggested to me that he go over into Northeast Baltimore
around the vicinity of Kirk Avenue, the residence of the Venej
who this suspect had named as his accomplices, and search for
them at their sisters' and relatives' homes.
lie had been gone about an hour, I believe, when a
Northern District officer came into the interrogation room
where I was typing up with Detective Conroy crime lab sheets
\
of evidence and so forth when I was informed that a policeman
had been shot. This was about four thirty, I imagine. \
Q Now, when you say -- just stop there for a moment
when you say searching homes, were they searching for evidence
or persons or for what?
A Bor persons and evidence, sir,
Q all right, go ahead.
A Along about four thirty ...
THE COURT: When was this?
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MR. SAUSE: Thl3 was early Christmas morning.
THE WITNESS: I'm giving you a chronological .
THE COURT: You say searching Tor evidence?
MR. SAUE&: Searcning Tor suspects ana evidence,
THE WITNESS: There was an amount oT money taken
in the robbery ana, oT uoux'Be, weapons were utilized, natural
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q Well, wnat was the primary purpose oT the search?
A Tor the suspects.
Q This was prior to the time that any police ofTicex
had been shot and killed?
A That is correct, sir.
THE COURT: Weil, oT course, among the things that
they might be looking Tor were the fruits oT the robbery?
THE WITNESS: That is x*ight, that is what I testi-
Tied.
THE COURT: That includes the Truits and the weapo
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I think it was two thouse
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q You mentioned a moment ago the money?
A Yes, sir, the money and the weapons.
Q Bid this involve a sizeable amount oT money?
A Yes, sir, over two thousand aB I recall, sir.
Now, you indicated that-you had Just started~~to~£
that you heard something over the police radio while you were
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typing up these reports?
A No, sir, X -was in the Interrogation room and sever
officers came into the interrogation room of the Northern
District ana aovisou detective Conroy and I that a policeman
had Just been shot In the Northeastern District and I recall
he stated Kennedy Avenue. Do we were somewhat shocked with
this information and being aware, of course, that Lieutenant
Clover was over in that area with this turn up party,
We immediately proceeaeu over there and enroute,
of course, we heard, the police dispatcher directing cars to
Clifton Park, that a police officer had been shot and so forth
and we arrived at the &jQQ block of Kennedy Avenue. I met
Lieutenant Eaton there of the Northeastern District and he
realted ccrtarn information to me tnat Sergeant Jack Cooper
liua been shot, that Cooper had been with Lieutenant alover and
they had been turning up homes\and they had Just left the turn
up route. V
Well, of course, that day, the remainder of the
morning we searched the City College'grounds, the back yards
ana calls were coming over the radio that prowlers were in the
various yards, Carswell Street, Montpelier Street, all the
nearby streets.
So latex1 on in the morning, it wad negative, of
course, we went to the various Lomas, relatives\of the wanted
subjects. Then we returned to the Northeastern District, I'd
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say about seven A.M., that was Christmas morning.
At the Northeastern Listriot was Commissioner
Schmidt, as X recall, with Captain Mayer and Inspector German
was there, we briefed him as -a trio events, what transpired
was negative, our search fox* the Veneys and weapons or evidenc
and, or codj.se, we had several girls in there that were friendV
of the VeneyXanu at that point we organized. The Conmissione
thought that we should organize a special group because of the
characters we werh dealing with,
*4 Weil, nOw would you elaborate on that, first of a2
\
a special group, indicate what the special group was to be?
THL COURT* \Weii, is that any different from what
the other lieutenant said*N I don't think there is any need tc
repeat that,
\
MR. CaUuhx All right.
Tifli COURT* And there is an admission or stipulatl
with respect to the Gangers and the nature of the crime andX
character and so forth.
BY MR. SAUShj
Q Well, you heard Lieutenant Glover's testimony?
A I did, sir.
0 And with regard to the special group, do you wish
to add anything to what he said?
A The commissioner emphasized safety tb the public
as well as the officers; ho emphasized courtesy arid tact would
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728
e m p l o y e d , employed when we conducted or pursued any informatl
as to hom&js and so forth.
Q Well, was the purpose of this special group also
to coordinate the efforts of the ...
A Ye$, sir, to operate out of the Northeastern
District
Q
A
Q
Out of the Northeastern District?
That’s right.
Ordinarily where would you operate from, the
lieutenants operate from?
A Out of the homicide office,
Q Which is at cdjitral?
\
A Central Police Station, yes, sir.
Q At Fayette Street?
A Yes, sir,
Q Now, after this unit was set up describe to His' \
Honor in general, if possible, the manner in which this specii
group proceeded?
A Well, we processed all information acquired throuj
informers, relatives, friends of the Veneyp. Of course, we
were instructed to take emergency units with us at all times.
As a matter of fact the emergency units Mere quartered at the
Northeastern District to assist us in the forthcoming turnups,,
Q Wnat was the purpose of the emergency units, if y<
know, being ordered to the Northeastern District? \
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A They contained the necessary equipment during the
event we encountered trouble and in the event that we encounte
the wanted suspects, the Veneys, and, of course, if they barri
ceded themselves in some place and so forth,
Q What sort of equipment does this unit carry?
THE COURT* Well, that is stipulated, isn’t it?
MR. SAUSE* All right.
BY MR. SAUSE*________ __._______—
Q Lieutenant, these special units, these emergency
units, to your knowledge and experience in the police depart
ment have these units ever been utilized in connection with th
service of warrants in any case?
A Well, sir, to my knowledge in the recent slaying
of an A&P manager at Hampden they were used on several occasio
to turn up the wanted suspects in that particular investlgatio
THE COURT* That was the man who was shot and kill
when he was attempting to deposit ...
THE WITNESS* November, 36th Street, yes, sir.
THE COURT* When was that?
THE WITNESS: That was in November, Your Honor,
I think, sir.
THE COURT* He was making a deposit and three or f<
men shot him?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. He was accosted by two
729
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assailants and shot during a robbery.
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THE COURT* I remember the newspaper story because
it made very considerable public discussion,
BY MR, SAUSEt
Q Were the circumstances of the clanger considered
to be roughly similar in both of these cases?
A They were considerably more in the latter case, ox
this particular case, ThiB was an unusual situation, I, myso
in the time I have been with the department — I have only
been here sixteen years, but never do I recall where two polic
men were shot within a matter of six hours by the same assail
ant, I think these circumstances are extraordinary themselves
Of course, you are dealing with two men who shot
two armed officers and then you have a problem to the comnaunit
Q Well, in short, did you feel despite any prior
practices thet any particular precaution waB needed in this
case?
A Oh, yes, sir, circumstances warranted them,
Q And you felt the safety of your men requirec them?
A Very definitely, sir,
Q All right. Now, proceed. You have indicated that
the emergency units were assigned to the Northeastern, you beg
your investigation. Could you describe your usual modus opera
in this particular case?
A Well, usually most of the calls were directed —
of course, for the first several days we inspected homes, know
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associates, relatives, former associates, cousins and so forth
of the wanted suspects, and they were long days. We had appro
imately forty five to fifty men and I guess each day was fourt
to sixteen hours a day for the 2 5th, 26th, 2 7th ana 28th, and
finally ...
THE COURT: What was that call you said? I just
didn't understand what you said — off the record.
(A discussion off the record.)
THE WITNESS: Of course, I didn't particularly go
out on a lot of turn ups the first couple days, I was inter
viewing witnesses, typing. We had scores of people in there
from the Greenmount Avenue area who were friendly with the
Veneys, who knew the Veneys and so forth. We consumed long
hours then. Of course, I guess around the 28th, 29th, we
started getting these phone calls, some from the newspapers,
some from anonymous sources, some from officers on the streeti
Then, of course, we would subdivide our unitB, I would take a
group of men, Lieutenant Glover would take a group of men. He
would take the calls in East Baltimore, I would take the colls
in West Baltimore,
BY MR. 3AUSEt
Q Was there anything unusual, Lieutenant, about cheok
ing the homes of relatives and known friends and places that th
persons named in the warrants frequented, was there anything
unusual about your investigating those places in an attempt to
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serve the warrants?
A No, sir, nothing unusual, not that I encountered,
Q Well, I mean, was there anything unusual about yo
doing that or do you do that in every case?
A That is the natural procedure, sir* It is daily
routine in law enforcement,
Q Now, several times you used the word turn up,
would you describe for His Honor what you understand the word
turn up means?
A It can be an inquiry or it can be a search,
Q In other words the words turn up do not necessaril;
involve a search?
A
Q
A
Oh, no, sir.
But It has to do with looking for suspects?
'ies, sir, that is the general term that is UBed
by the police department,
Q Now, you have indicated that around the 28th or
l^th you started receiving these various telephone calls. Did
you receive any phone callB, to your knowledge, any informa-
tion from persons, known informers or that type of person?
A Oh, yes, sir.
Q And you have indicated that you received Borne anon,*
mouse information, is that correct? i^o‘I ‘.T.l/
A Yes, sir,
Q Information from officers on the beat?
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A 0h# ye©, sir, quite a few*
Q And are you familiar with the testimony of the las
witness, Mr* Goodaale, did you receive information from those
sources?
A Well, yes. I dlan't receive information from Mr.
Gooddale but similar sources.
Q Similar sources?
A Yes, sir,
Q Now, Lieutenant, in as much as the criminal cases
themselves are untried we would like you to be unspecific as
to the results but you have also indicated that you had certal
other persons connected with the suspects in custody, is that
correct?
A Oh, ye3, air,
Q And did you in addition receive information from
them? Just yea or no,
A Yea, sir, we did. We had two additional suspects
that are presently in custody,
Q And were any of the turn ups that you made at any
time based upon the information that you received from these
people in custody?
A Yes, sir, I would like to say this, that a good
deal of the turn ups were concerned with these other two suspec
THK COURTS Did you say a good deal of these, you
mean some of these ,,,, 144
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THE WITNESS* Well, we were seeking two additional sus
pects besides these youths mentioned in this particular inci
dent, the Veney brothers,
BY MR, 3AUSK;
734
Q In audition to the Veney brothers you were lookinf
for certain others?
A Yea, 3ir, the 20th and 27th we were seeking the
4 4 rrtwo accomplices other than the Veneys, *
THE COURT* At least one was arrested at or near
the scene?
THE WITNESS; At the scene, sir,
THE COURT: At the scene, and it was the result of
your interview withNhim that you started after some other peop
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
V
THB COURT* Ann as a result of 3ome of your turn
ups you succeeded in arresting two additional Buspects, They
were arrestee when?
THE WITNESS* Gee, I don’t know the exact date, si
THE COURT* Within two or three days or longer?
THE WITNESS; Yes, sir. One suspect wa3 arrested
during one of these turn ups, I think. I don’t know the arres
Taylor, " don’t know the particular date of the arrest of
Taylor.
BY MR, SAUSE; \
Q Now, this information you furnished Mr. Murphy and
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me on all of these turn ups, did aorae of those turn ups Involve
an attempt or attempts to locate these other suspects?
A Yes, sir.
Q And in this event you received information from
anyone that you had in cuBtoay with regard to the suspects
themselves, the primary ones?
A Yes, sir\ We were advised by two of the suspects
who are presently in custody to watch ourselves, that the Veney
boys weren*t going to be taken alive, they were armed with shot
guns and pistols and these other two defendants told us to
watch ouraelves. They stressed that on several occasions dur
ing their interrogation, \
Q Now, in addition to thattype of information did
these people in custody give you any locations where the Veney
brothers might be?
A Could be possibly located, yes, sir,
Q And you, as a general rule, consider that informa
tion reliable? \
A Very definitely, sir, \
MR. NABRITs Objection, Your Honor, general ruleB
about ,,,
Tit COURT* I think there are general rules, one a
general rule and one in this case, that each may have some
bearing. What i3 probable cause depends upon the nature of the\\
information and the nature of the people who furnished it and
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the Question of whether other people who have been arrested
and charged are regarded as people whose information may const
tute probable cause is something that seems to me may be the
subject of expert testimony. If it isn’t the Court certainly
V
has heard enough criminal cases ana habeas corpus eases and
know* how often it is sound and how often it do<-u leae to othe\\
people. If you want to leave it to the jury, then I don’t
\think you would be any better off than if you let him answer 1
MR. MURPHxi Your Honor may recall on that point ,
MR. HABFiIT: May I complete my objection? I am
sorry to interrupt,Mr. Murphy’.
My' only point was that the reliability of lndlvldi
witness’ statements is something that is pretty difficult to
describe in general.
THL COURT: I have been saying for sometime that
is one of the difficulties of wording the injunction in a case
Of this sort, it has to depend upon a great many factors.
MR. MURPHY: Your Honor, X would like to point out
on this point the Fourth Circuit gives considerable credence .
to accomplices — the iraplleation of — you recall Boler vs-
Warden, and vhat iB all we nave. \
Tiid COURT: L was thinking of Boler. and my oplnior
V
anu the Fourt ^xrouit opxnxon but we are drying to get the typ
of information, type of people they got information from and
witnesses gave different types. Now, whether I will sustain
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the objection If it is made to whether this witness is conaide:
the tyoe that informers are generally sound, if you base it on
the individual man from your conversation with him but you
can't Just Generally that all informers are sound or that the\
. \ x
accomplice is kpund or all accomplices are sound. We have got
to Judge it on the circumstances with the particular case.
All the Court is taking notice of is that they
frequently are, and frequently they are not,
BY MR. SAUSE:
Q In this case, Lieutenant, you have indicated that
you received information from persons in custody with regards
to the whereabouts of these two men who were named in the
warrants. In a number of searches which you reported to Mr,
Murphy and I, and which we in turn reported to the Court, a
number of those searches involve turn ups made upon that infor
mation? \
A I'd say some, sir. I would have to look at the
particular sheets to distinguish Just which ones,
Q In every case of importance you have noted the
exact source of the information or in somo ssases when you have
simply indicated, on information received? \
THE COURT: Now, I don't understand that sentence.
You are dealing with what roports. There are vaary reports whicl\
simply show no source of information,
MR. SAUSE: All right, I will withdraw th* question,
737
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THE COURT: If you are talking about the ones that
hu sent people out on as a result of his interviews, that a s a
substantial group, I don't know how many there are, but obvll
iy that Is a different situation from some of the others we
have spoken of, anonymous persons, material picked up by the
officers on the streets, material from the newspapers,
(Discussion off the record.)
THE COURT: I think wc might go ahead to a good
breaking point, a little bit longer if you wish. If you come
to the breaking point you would like bp use as your break —
it is now after four.
MR. Wc will proceed to another point, Your
Honor,
BY MR. 3AUSE: \
Q Now, Lieutenant, you have indicated that you re
ceived various types or information from various sources.
Would you ever participate in any of the turn ups which were
suggested or indicated by this information?
A Yes, sir*
ft And would you describe to His Honor — strike that,
Was there a general procedure that was followed in
these turn ups?
A Yes.
<4 That you participated in?
A Yes, sir. You have heard from prior testimony that
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a call was evaluated, each call as we got It, at the North
eastern District, or 11* I received it from — I receiver many
calls from officers throughout the City who, of course, wouldn
name their informer because their informer was frightened,
Your Honor, and diun't want to become involved and I received
a number of calls myself from officers, via phone, and, of
course, we felt that that was somewhat reliable. We asked the
officer what he thought, hc‘d say, well, he‘s a good fellow,
I knew him before, he has related certain information to me
before. And, of course, on this basis we would go out and
perform our turn ups. Of course, we had a surveilance car,
as has alreaoy been testified to by other officers, to proceed
approximately two or three blocks from the particular addresse
and send a scout car in advance to survey the situation and
return and then we would proceed with the turn up.
Now, of course, if someone picked a phone up and
said, wo received a call from the switchboard downtown
and they said, we got a call from a certain address, some
one picked up the phone and they say the Veneys were at a cer
tain address and hung up. Then we might try to send a car thex
to look this aadx*ess over.
Of course, you had to evaluate the emotions, the
emotional voice, the audibility of the voice calling,. We woulc
Sive credence to the reliability of the call. I have taken
:alls irom women, irora men, who told me the Veneys were in this
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house there, there*s a woman living there with them that has
a daughter and she'd been taking food to them and so forth,
I can't specifically cite the address but I have had those
sort of calls,
THU COURT: Have you finished the answer?
THE WITNESS* Yes.
THE COURT* Well, did you keep a record of these
calls, any memoi-andum?
THE WITNESS* They would be Jotted down on the
reports, sir, Novr, they were subsequently typed up,
THE COURT* Well, where are those; because the
Special Masters looked over and found so many oases in which
there wasn't any information as to the source,
THE WITNESS* Well, sir, they wouldn't identify
themselves, these people who called,
THE COURT* You said something would be jotted dow
but in many cases the report is from the men who went over it,
the reports showed there simply wasn't anything in your record;
to show the sources in the records that were turned over, ther<
was absolutely anything in the record as to the Bource of in
formation.
Is there anything, do you know of any records that
were not given to Mr. Murphy?
THE WITNESS: No, sir,
THE COURT* That would be a good deal of help to
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the Court.
THE WITNESS* No, sir.
BY MR. SAUSEt
Q Well, have calls that diet not result in turn ups,
Lieutenant, was any rccorus kept of those?
A No, sir, not to ray recollection.
THE COURT* The records show, of the men who looke
at the records, they hau records of nine tips that did not
result in turn ups and Lieutenant Glover testified that he
thought that there were about three tips that he got that he
discarded and didn't follow. I thought he perhaps had receive
maybe somewhere around a third of the calls that came in. Can
you give us any estimate of the number of calls that you took
and/or what portion of the total calls you took ana how many
tips you discarded, if you can, either exactly or roughly?
THE WITNESS; Well, sir, roughly, I would say betwe
twelve or fifteen cals that I took personally, that I can
recall personally.
THE COURT: You mean only calls that you took?
THE WITNESS* Personally.
THE COURT: Now, how many of those, if any, did yo
discard?
THE WITNESS* I don't recall discarding any that
I took, sir. 149
THE COURT; All right
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x MR. SAUSE: Your Honor, would this be a convenient
place for Youi\Honor to break for the day?
THE u$URT* Yes.
(Court ws adjourned at ^:30 o'clock P.M.)