Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 6
Public Court Documents
January 26, 1965

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Brief Collection, LDF Court Filings. Lankford v. Schmidt Transcript of Proceedings Vol. 6, 1965. f1a29a5a-ba9a-ee11-be36-6045bdeb8873. LDF Archives, Thurgood Marshall Institute. https://ldfrecollection.org/archives/archives-search/archives-item/e85b6f8c-8a83-4d34-ad79-da322d215d17/lankford-v-schmidt-transcript-of-proceedings-vol-6. Accessed April 27, 2025.
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al. : vs. : Civil No. 16080 BERNARD J , SCHMIDT , ^ C o m m is s io n e r of Police of Baltimore City. : January 26, 1965 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS Volume 6 (Page 582 to page 742 ) Francis T. Owens Official Reporter 514 Post Office Bldg. Baltimore 2, Maryland 1 • ) :t 4 ."> (i 7 S !) 11 J 12 14 14 ir» k; 17 18 1!» 20 21 22 24 24 2o 582 I N D E X Witness George D, Shriner William Co Hughes Lyman Wm. Gonce George Cs Schnabel Robert De Paula Richard L. Connolly Robert J, Hewes Clarence Roy Albert Gooddale James J, Cadden Direct Cross 564 591 609 6 13 6 2 2 625 631 6 3 6 644 648 654 6 5 9 665 674 684 688 695 703 719 E X H I B I T S Redirect Recross 7X6 717 Defendant's No. Page No. 3 716 1 •) :t 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1(1 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 583 IS THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND SAMUEL JAMES LANKFORD, et al. vs. BERNARD J. SCHMIDT, as COt-MISS IONER of POLICE of BALTIMORE CITY Civil No. 16080 Baltimore, Maryland Tuesday, January 26, 1965 The above-entitled matter was resumed for hearing before His Honor, Roszel C. Thomsen, Chief Judge. A P P E A R A N C E S (As heretofore noted.) 1 • > :{ ~T f> (i 7 S !) 10 1 1 12 1,1 14 1.') 1(1 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 2f> 584 ;0URTj Would you all come up to the bench for a minute to clear up a couple things? (A discussion was had at the bench.) THE COURTi I think we ought to put on the record that the Master's Report has been filed this Thursday, January 218t, and may be considered a part of this plaintiff's case. Thereupon, GEORGE D, SHRINER, was called to the stand and sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: THE CLERK: State your name for the record? THE WITNESS: George D. Shrlner, Detective, Balti more City Police Department. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SAUSE: Q Sergeant, how long have you been on the police force? A Fourteen years, sir, Q Now, during the early part of this month or the latter part of 1984 did you participate in an investigation connected with the homicide of Sergeant Cooper? A I did, sir. Q And during the course of that investigation did you have occasion to go to 24lo Eutaw Place? A I did, sir. 3 7 8 1 •) 2 4 5 (> 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 10 17 IS 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 585 Q Now, in what capacity ala you go to Eutaw Place, what was your jot? at that time, your position? A As a procedure is set up prior to each investiga tion I was one or the men selectee who would wear bouy armor, to carry a heavy v,’capon and would enter first in company with other officers of the group. Q by bony armor you mean bullet proof vest? A That is correct, sir. Q V.'ould you tell honor very briefly without men tioning names why you felt it was necessary to wear bullet proof vest and bouy armor? A Prior investigation dlsclosea the subjects wanted in this offense were aeemeu to be considered armed and extreme ly dangerous due to acts committed prior to this and due to acts in leaning to the homicide of Sergeant Jack Cooper. Tub COURT: bet me sue if we can save time. is there any dispute about the last statement as a fact without any question of its legal effect, is there any dispute of this fact? i4R. NAURU1: About the ... Tub COURT: That tney were reasonably believed to be dangerous. MR. NAbRIT: No, THE COURT: So that that need not be proved any further. V79 1 •) :s 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 18 14 15 l<i 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 586 HR. NABEIT: All right. BY MRo SAUSE: Q how, Sergeant, woulc you tell His Honor, starting from tiie time shav you arrived at hutaw Place until you left, what took place to the best of your recollection? A Yes, sir. first of ail, wnat time was it that you arrived there? A Uur time of arrival was approximately in the neighborhood oi 1:10 A.Pi. the morning of December 2/th In com pany with the lieutenant anu tne other officers or the advance group, the utuocfcive cruiser, we maue an observation of the dwelling known as autaw Place, from our advantage point in the neighborhood axiu in the same block we observed the awcl ing. V»e observed at that time tnere was lights on on the lowej? level. From tnio point we retornou a couple, several bloc < away where the remainder of the rest of the investigating group was standing by. m e lieutenant auviseu tne certain groups that would go to the rear, our group proceeded to the front of the dwelling at 2416 Hutaw Place arriving at thi3 time at 380 approximately 1:30 A.Pi. >.t this point in company with Detective De Paula, Detective Ollvcj. Welker. Oergeant Richard connolly, Hortncasten District, we went to the front of the dwelling at 24lo Autaw 1 ') 4 .’) (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 i:l 14 17) 10 17 18 10 20 21 22 24 2 1 2.7 587 Place. The outer or vestibule doors, double-swinging door that opened Inward, were opened, one side. I approached the d opened the uoor, the second swinging uoor was open inward. At this point 1 knocked on the door and I also rang the bell. Approximately one, two minutes later a small, slight built colored subject answered the door clad only in pajama bottoms. We had our shields affixed on the front of our body and we auvised that we were police officers acting on information, we were looking fox- two wanted subjects and we had information that one of the subjects had resided there and may be there at thlB time. With that he advised us that we could enter the house and look anywhere we wanted. I entered the house and at this time Lieutenant i-lanuel had entered behind the other two >fficers. We began our search and at this time the Leiutenan stood there talking to this subject. Detective Walker went through and was talking to some lady In the rear of the dwell ing, first floor level. After he left the door was open, the lady was ther to the best of my recollection she was clad in night garments. A light was shown in a room, we looked around, there was several beds there, there was figures in the beds and to the best of ray knowledge I would say that they were^pung people 1 •) :{ 4 5 <i 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1(> 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 588 and did not answer any descriptions that we wanted. At this point wo went to the second level of the dwelling where other officers were, I went down the hall, there was In the middle of the second level of the dwelling, there was a bath facility, I looked in there, I went to the rear and there was a locked aour. We requested, who had keys to open this aoor. With this a female subject came down the hall, handed tne keys to me, 1 opened the door, we shown a light and this room was empty. We closed the door, I returned the keys, the keys were left there. We went back down the hall, down to the first floo level. By this time there were other officers who I do not Know were on the third level, V/e went down, I observed Lieutenant Manuel still holding conversation with the subject who had answered the door. We proceeded to leave the building after the all- clear. The other officers were on the first level and on the way out somebody said. Happy New Yeas spontaneously. The officer with me, standing by my side, to the best of my know ledge he was cither by my aide or to the rear of mo, wo said Happy New Year. --------- ! We left the premises known 83 2416 Kutaw, returned to our vehicles and at once returned to the Northeast District awaiting further assignment. Q Now, Sergeant, approximately what time was it that 569 you left the dwelling? A To the best of my knowledge I placed the time at approximately in the neighborhood of 1:45-1:48, no more than fifteen to eighteen minutes from the time of entraoe to the time of departure. Q how, this person who openeu the door, the slightly built subject, aid you explain to him the reason for your being there? A When this subject answered the door I told him at this time that we were police officers, we were hunting for a fugitive subject wanteu by our department and he said you are welcome to come in and look around, Q bid you tell him the name of the person for whom you were looking? A To the best of my knowledge I»d say, yes, sir, we did. Q in addition to protective body armor did you have any other protection? A Yes, sir. I was carrying a .45 caliber sub-machins gun. Q And this was visible to anyone in the house, this man who opened the door? A Yes, sir. ThiB weapon was at the ready and on 3afu Q And have you received special training with the handling of that weapon? 1 ■> :{ 4 ~> (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 If) 1(1 17 18 lit 20 21 •>2 22 24 2.7 590 A I have been a member of the department riot squad for thirteen years, sir. Q And as a member of the riot squad you do receive training on the handling of the sub-machinegun? A Yes, sir. All heavy weapons of the department, we are trained over a period of years on numerous occasions to frequent us with the weapons or any new weapons that are received. Q Now, other than service revolvers did anyone have any heavy equipment •.. A Yesi sir. Q ... specially trained personnel? A Yes, sir. Q Specially trained in the use of the weapon they handled? A YeB, sir. Every man that entered first was trainei personnel in the use of the weapon that they handled, Q Now, when you went in the house did you touch the person who opened the door? A I at no time and no one in ray presence did I obser1 anyone touch this subject at any time, Bir. Q Did you have him put his hands up against the wall and pat him down? v84 No, sir. From my first visual observation of the subject with pajama pants on, if he had a weapon it would have 1 •» :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 10 14 ir> l (> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 20 24 25 591 been very easily seen through this garment. Q So there wasn't any need? A No, sir, no need whatsoever to touch the subject or pat him down. MR. SAUSii: Your witness. CROSS iiXAMINATION BY MR. NABRIT: Q Detective Shrlner, you observed lights on the first floor from your observation, were those Christmas lights A from our advantage point in observing this dwell ing, I wouldn't say definitely they were, I wouldn't say they weren't, sir. Q Diu I understand you correctly to say that you turned your flashlite, or a light like that, into the first floor bedroom ana observea some young people in bed? A You heard me incorrectly, sir, I diu not say that. X said a light was shown into that room. Q A light carried by an officer? A That is correct, sir. i had a weapon which was at the ready ana on safe. I couldn't handle a flashlite and a weapon, too, sir. Q Well, this was someone accompanying you? A Yes, sir. There was an officer behind me, Sergeani Richard Connolly. 38 r-Q And he had what kind of light? 592 i •) :i 4 r> (i i s «) 10 11 12 12 14 1.') 1<» 17 IS 1!) 20 21 24 24 2.') A He had a hand torch, as we refer to them. It is a high-powered, twelve volt light. Q Did the two of your look into this room, the first floor bedroom? A I would hardly say that he could look through me, sir. He had the light at a point where if anyone was there, the light — the first instinct, if anybody can see a light they are going to go for the light. The light would be off from my body so if anything was coining ray way I wouldn't get it. Q Did you look into the room? A I did, sir. Q Did you have any conversation with the lady ... A I had no conversation with no one except the persoi that I talked to when I entered the building, Q How, this first floor bedroom, would you describe the rooms — how many rooms did you go through to get to that first floor bedroom? A Upon entering the dwelling at 2^16 Eutaw there is a long hallj right as you enter the front door to the left going in there is the old time Bliding doors, you proceed down the hall, from there there is an opening to a dining room, thei further back would be a more or less kitchen affair and beyond it was the room that we looked into the — it was quite a congested area, I'd say, from quick observation, with beds around and several subjects in them and this female Negro sub- *88 1 •) :{ 4 5 (> 7 s !) 10 11 12 10 14 15 1<) 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 20 24 25 593 Ject standing outside of the door who had had conversation with Detective Walker. Q And there Is a little area-way, like a small hall between the Kitchen and tne rear room? A To cne best of ray recollection I think there was, sir. Q oo that to get to the door of that rear room you went down the hallway, through a olnlng room, through tne kitchen, through this little hallway behind the kitchen? A There was a hall from the entrance foyer to the dining room area, then the kitchen, then there may have been a small passageway or hallway, as you refer to it, to that back room, yes, to the best of my knowledge. Q Referring to the second floor locked room which you mentioned, did X understand you correctly to say that someone gave you a key and that you personally opened the door with a key? A That is correct. When we found the door was locke we requested that the key or someone to open the door and the next thing I know I was being handed a set of keys on a ring - there was several other keys on the ring — and I tried one or two, the second or maybe the third key opened the door. Q Did you inquire before that who that room belonged to? A I did not. To the best of my knowledge I did not, fX W 1-? 1 •> :{ 4 7> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:l 14 1.') 1(1 17 18 1!» 20 21 •>2 28 24 2o 59^ Q When you first entered the dwelling did you or anyone with you tell the person who answered the door to curn on the lights in the corridor? A Wncn we first entered the dwelling to the beat of my knowledge we asked that lights be put on. In fact, once again, I will say, to the best of my knowledge when the subjec answered the door X think a light was lit in the hallway when he answered tho door. Q But to the best of your knowledge you recall askin him to turn some more lights on as you went back? A As we went through, yes, sir, because we were not familiar with the lighting system or where the lights switches were. Q Detective Shrlner, when the door was opened did yo enter and then begin this conversation you described with the man who opened the door? A I old not enter the premises until I advised the person who answered the door what purpose we were there for an: after ... Q Where were you standing when you said this? A From the top contact of the steps to the first passing door that leads to the vestibule there is another largi single door, when this subject answered the door we advised hin we were police officers, we advised him of our purpose and onl;; when at this point/he said you are welcome to come in and look arouf; 1 •> :i 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 1,1 14 1.') 1(1 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 20 24 25 595 did we enter the dwelling. Q Now, you said you advised him of your purpose, do you recall his words? A At this time, to the best of my knowledge, I would say that when tne subject answered the door I said, we are police officers, we are acting — have information that a want subject wanted in a homicide of a police officer was at this address and with this his response was, you are welcome to com in and look around. Q bergeant, am 1 wrong in thinking that the operatin procedure was tnat when, in these series of investigations, that wnen a person opens a door responding to your knocking, the procedure was for one person to enter and then for the lieutenant or person in cnarge to come up and ask and explain what was going on? A You are wrong, sir. THE COURT: It was my understanding that it was the testimony — it is my recollection that was Lieutenant Glover who testified, was it, this entry was by another lieutejfi ant other than tne one who was in charge — one of the three in charge of tne Northeastern section. MR. NABRZT: Lieutenant Manuel testified on it last Wednesday, testified about this. THE COURT: That is right. Now you speak of a policy, I think policy was stated by Lieutenant Glover as beii o o r 596 i 4 :i (i S !) 10 11 12 i:i 14 15 1(» 17 18 lit 20 21 24 25 the established policy of the group which he was one of the three top men operating out of Northeastern. Lieutenant Manuel wasn't one of tne top men. fou asked tills man very properly I whether this was the — what you nave Just said is what I understood Lieutenant Glover said was policy. This witness has sale you are wrong about the policy. Are you familiar with the general policy or are you talking about the policy of raids that you participated In or are you talking about what was none in the raids of some of tne others? THL Wx'lkooh: To clarify that. Your Honor, his statement was — his question was, as soon as I entered would the lieutenant come in. The policy was the first three or four men witn tne bouy armor would enter to make sure that no body was laying anu waiting in tne nail or any room that we entered, then tne superior officer was directly behind these four men. Ills question was, aid the lieutenant come directly behind me anc 1 answered no. TiiL COURT: Well, I think the question — there. w$s a misundersterming — ao you know what the policy was with re spect to who should tell the person who opened the door tne purpose of the visit. Was tnere a policy that you knew about or was it Just a custom in the raids that you participated in, or the* searcha you participated in? THE WITNESSi Yes, Your Honor. I can answer the 1 • ) 2 4 5 <> 7 s I) 10 11 12 12 14 1.') 1<> 17 18 1!> 20 21 22 22 24 2.') 597 question this way. The policy was that after we knocked on the dwelling or any place that we entered, as soon as we had a response we would uuvj.se uiun of our purpose there, we were police officers anu once wo entered then tne lieutenant In c ilarge would bt directly behind the first three or four men who were wearxng the body armor, then he would further auvlse them in detail, THE oGURT: bo it lb your- understanding of the policy that sue initial announcement that they were policemen and they were making some sort of a search, was by the people who entered iir*t with the bouy armor and the weapons? THE Viilh^hO: Yes, sir. Then the superior oil leer would be directly behind these people, BY MR. NAURU: 4 Well, Detective Lhrinor, die Lieutenant Manuel come in after you or did he come in after Walker, De Paula and u^nnolly? A To the best of my recollection, sir, I was the first to enter in the dwelling ana due to the seriousness of the situation I didn’t Iook over my shoulder to see who was directly — 1 knew who would be behind me, the other three men of the group tnat would enter first. But now as far as Lieute^ ant Manuel, l know that he had to be very close behind which 391was the normal procedure, Q £>id~you go on any raids with Lieutenant Glover? 1 ■> 4 4 1 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 l.l i<; 17 18 10 20 21 22 2.4 24 21 A I have been on quite a few of the raids, sira Q Did you go on any others where you were the first perad i in? iVii-vj.cali.y the majority of ail trie raids chat X via a on x ^ntcreu i Arc t <uu ng wiui Defective De Paula and Detective Mailer. . ere any of these ruias where Lieutenant Cadden was xn charge? 'x'herfc were a number or raias enat Lieutenant Cadde 598 A was> in charge or, yea, air. \were thbre a number of raids like this where Glover Lieutenant/ aqb x i . eaarge? A That is correct, sir. Lieutenant Glover was in charge. \ Q tan you recall how many officers entered the house on Kutaw Place that nignt? \ A To the best of my knowledge the exact number I could not recall. 1 am only familiar with the officers that w4 worked together with under the procedure Q Do you know that there were others other than thos^ you named? \ A I observed one or two, at the most, other officers that I do not recall their names. \ THE COURTi lie testified there were officers he didn’t know who searched the third floor 1 ■) 4 4 5 <i 7 S !) 10 11 12 1.4 14 15 1<> 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 24 25 599 BY NR. NABRITi Officer, did you participate in a search at 2303 Allendale Drive on or about December 30th? MR, BA USB» If Your Honor please, I would like to indicate herd that I don’t object when counsel deliberately goes outside oiS direct and to show further that we want to get to the truth we Will waive that objection but It Is clearly improper cross examination. THK COUjdh Were you going to put him back on? Were you planning to take the various different entries in ord< and were you planning to put him back on? MR. BAUSB: No, sir, we were going to try to avoid that to conserve the court13 time. THK COURT: Well, if you were not going to recall him, go ahead. THK WITNKSS: To the best of ray knowledge I would have to refer to the records, I was on a number of rald3 . At this time I don't recall if I was or wasn't. I was on a great number of searches. I would have to refresh my memory through the records. \ BY MR. NABRIT: Q This one was on December 26th, four to four thirty in the afternoon, a three-story frame house? A I would still have to refer to the records, sir, because we had been going quite a few hours and we hft a numbed 1 •) :i 4 5 i; 7 s !» 10 11 12 12 14 15 1<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 25 600 of places, \ Q What records would you refer to to refresh your recollection about x.utaw Place, if any? A kc nave the emergency service vehicle records and reports that we raake out. You jaade out a report on oucaw Place? A lucre's records that we maae out, yes, sir. <* You personally? a 1 made a report relative to the raid on liutaw Plao£ yes, sir. k And did you alscuaa that raid on tfutaw Place with anyone since then? A 1 nave uxseussed it with ray superior officers, that is correct, sir, i* when was the most recent discussion you had? A dir. <« When was the most recent discussion? A To the best of my knowledge X would say sometime in the early part or January, sir. Q You haven't discussed it since last Wednesday? A No, sir. I have either been on night work or I have been off, sir, painting the house. Q Do you know wnethor any officers climbed a fire escape in that house on JSutaw Place? A From the front of the house I did not observe the 1 •I :t 4 .”) (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 ir> 1(» 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 2 " ) 601 fire escape and I cannot answer If the fire escape was climbed by anyone. I did not climb it. Q How about the roof? A No, sir. Q You didn't observe it, you don't know? A X do not know, sir. Q Did you go on a raid at 917 North Chapel, December 3 1 about miu-oay? A No, sir. Q 2003 North Monroe, January 6th, also about mid-day A 1 did not participate in that raid, sir. Q 1140 Hnields Place, New Year's Hve, December 31st, again arouna twelve ana one in the afternoon? A I was working the night unit at that time, sir. I did not come to duty until three P.M. Q 2204 North Rosedale, about January 4th, empty hous with a dog inside? A I can answer no to that one if there was a dog there, sir. Q The uog was in the basement, you don't recall that A I don’t care if the dog was in the basement or on the roof, I vould have Known, sir. Q Wallace home on 240b Huron, December 30th? A Negative to that, sir. \ 14 15 l(i 17 18 1<> 20 21 22 22 24 25 602 Q The* Lankford home, 270T Parkwooa on February 2, after midnight? A Negative to that, air. Xbut you areNjjot Bure about Allenuule? A As X anawereu before, Bir, i would have to look at the recoras to refresh my memory, sir. Q Wnetnei* or not you were there or as to what happened? A If X was there, to wnafc happened. To the beet of my recollection, as I stateo previously, I don't recall at ĥis time if X participated in that raid or not, air. Q On uutaw Place, on direct you testified that — I thinkXyou said to the best of your knowledge you told the per son at the door the name of the suspects, did you use this phrase "to the best of your knowledge, that means your recol lection is not clear? A When I use the phrase "to the best of my knowledge I am answering, X can't state to you word for word what I actually stated to the gentlemen verbatim, no, sir. Q So you are not sure you told him the name of the subject who you were looking for? A We told him the name of the subject we were* lookin|g for as I previously testified but wora for word, the exact words tnat I used to the best of my recollection I don't recalpL the exact wording. Q Do you remember the exact words that he used, the 1 •) 4 4 5 (i 7 s 9 10 11 12 14 14 ir» 1(4 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 24 25 603 person who opened the uoor? N. A To the best or ray knowledge he said, you arc wel come to look arounu or search the house, or go through the aouse. (4 ion can rememtcz' him word lor woruv A x uiu not say wore zor word, x Just put xt three diXlereut ways, he saxu you are welcome to look arounu — 1 uon't know 1 1 no suxu look arounu, search the house, go through toe house or wi*nt. t* when he openeu the uoor wasn't your lirst abjectly to sue 1 1 there was aiiy uaiige*, anyone behind him, didn't you want to Iook arounu lirst? A ns x abateu In previous testimony, sxr, it was one large single uoor, when the uoor openeu It went completely agamst tne wall ana tne subject was standing there anu 1 1 there was anyoody behind tne uoor the uoor wouldn't have went that lar back and we could see directly down tne nail. Q wnat about tne parlor on tne lelt, did you look in there lirst? A The other ollicera apparently nau iookeu in cncre but we did not look in tnere, we went directly through the hali sir. Q X mean when you lirst. looked in, didn't you look and see who was in tnis room over tnere? A The sliding doors were checkedN^nd they were lockec 1 •> :t 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 l(i 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 604 Q They were not half open? A \ No, air. MR, NABRIT: Your witness, MR, £>AUSii: No questions. Thank you very much, Sergeant, TRt) COURT* Is it plaintiff 8 wish that any of these witnesses be held, you may want them later, let me know otherwise I guess they ought to get back to duty, MR. NABRIT* Well, Your Honor, I understood that the records of some of these raids would be made available to us. THE COURT* They were not asked for and I didn't know that anybody had asked for them. Would you like to see them? MR. NABRIT* I would like to see any report made by this witness. MR. MURPHY* If Your Honor please, that is why we had the Special Master, THE COURT* Well, you put a witness on the stand. Let me see his report. Get all the reports on this. Have you got them there? MR. MURPHY* Your Honor, this report was made afte; this suit was filed. THE COURT* Was this shown to the Master? MR. MURPHY* Yes, sir, I believe it was. 1 •> :{ 4 .’) (i 7 S !) 10 1 1 12 12 14 IT) 10 17 IS 1!* 20 21 22 22 24 2f> 605 THE COURT: The fact that he looked at some of these doesn’t necessarily make all — it doesn't entitle you to it, tne fact that he refreshed his recollection from it, Noth, what are you asKing, or if you ask for something I think it may make xt admissible at the instance of the btate unoer tht general rule — thl. isn't a Government case — and under tht general rule in Maryland if one side calls on the other to produce something which they are not required to produce and he sees it, it becomes admissible in evidence, is my understan* ing of the general rule, evidence rule in Maryland, Now, if you wish to call for these particular re ports, I am not sure that you are entitled to them if the State objects, I am not sure that you would be entitled to be given them. But what is it you want? You want this man's re port? MR. NABRIT* Yes, Your Honor. THL COURT: The witness who was put on the stand. Is there any reason why t.,ey should not be shown and allowed to be used on cross examination, Mr. Murphy, the report of the particular witness, not the report of everybody else. MR. MUR JHY: He hasn’t testified from the report, he testified from his recollection of the events. He hasn't in any way referred to that report. \ \ 1 •) :t 4 f) (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 l(i 17 18 11) 20 21 22 22 24 25 606 THE COURT: What is your objection? He said that he had looked it over. MR. WAiiRri': Hay it please the court, the witness said, vnen i atnceu him uoout anocner eataoiianuient, cnat he oouiun't testify auout it without looking at his records. Trig COURT: Well, oi* course, the point is you aske him auout a nouso number, If ne participated in fifty raids it is hard to jxpuot mat he retaemoex* the house number. If nc was told tuat ne participated ana given some sort of an indication auout it ue might nave been able to recall it. MR, WAHRiTt i aia my best to uescribe the house to tae witness, if Your honor recalls, a three-story frame house, the time of uay. ihi. COURT; 1 uian't interrupt you because you wer apparently testing ills recollection, it didn't seem to me it affected the credibility much if he couian't remember a house number of so many. i>iu he participate in the one? HR, MURTHYi Wo. THE COURT: That clears that up. This is then the only one that he participated in so far as you know? MR* wURTHY: Your Honor, to be helpful to counsel, in any case wnere we have an officer on the stand we will be \ happy to tell him wnich of tnese the officer was on, THE COURT: Well, X think that is fair. 1 •) :t 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1(> 17 18 1!) 20 21 •>2 24 24 25 607 than MR. MURPHY; I think that will save time rather through the eignty houses ... MR* hAxaltxi* x appreciate that, liia COURT: xu tiiora any reason why ... \yki• MORPHY t I think, Your honor, at the beginning oi the exploxiatxwn xnto the records alter this suit was filed, at the requeue \>i the Attorney Central these reports were made\ Aili• NtABIvl'i s This might sustain a prior contradic tory statement. Your lionor. \THE u o U ii\i No, except this, it is a difficult thing — thiu is worth trying — tnxs particuiar report is not\\ made xn the uruinax*y course o, business, how, sotije oi the re ports purport to be maae in the ox*ainary course of business, a \ . - ■ report iaaae un December hbtii ana so iorth, or at the time it seems to me to be xn a different class fro* a report made to the Attorney der.eral after tnia suit was filed, how, this re port was not made in the ox*alnary coux*se of business* MR. NA23RIT: Your Honor, perhaps I should amend ray request to ask that the Court make a preliminary inquiry into the documents and determine whether or not it does contain any contradictory statements. THE COURT: Well, now I think perhaps that there a; let’s see what we have in the report which purports to be made as of the same date, the report of the Sergeant, then there is a whole lot of reports here made by the different officers 1 ■> :{ 4 5 (! 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 l(i 17 18 lit 20 21 22 22 24 25 608 whi^h were made obviously as part of the preparation of the \ suit because after suit was filed this was one of the houses mentioned and it is natural to do that* Now, there are certain records that were made con temporaneously, 1 suppose, as this was here. MR. MURPHY: That was after the suit was filed, Your Honor* 1 mean it was caused to have been made after the suit was filed to ascertain the nature of the witness. THE COURT: ThiB is a record of another case which was put in here. The request is that the Court examine the state ments given by the witness after the suit was filea. Do you have any authority on it, does anybody have any authority on it because this will perhaps come in over and over again. MR. NABRIT: Sir, an additional point is that this report was given to the Special Master, they made their report on the basis of this file. THE COURT: That is right, they were not asked to report on this type of thing, they were asked to report on the information on which the entries were made. Now, if there is anything in this hiBtory that would bear on that point* but on the details oa the investigation in the house, that is what th:L men did and who shown the light where and who spoke where is something they were not asked to report on, MR* SAUSE: If Your Honor please, if we were to a3k ] ■» :t 4 5 <; 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 it; 17 is 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 fbr the work product of their clients for them you would hear such squealing of deprivation of rights such a3 never been heard in t^xa court before. Wow, certainly, on our side we are entitled \o some confidential reiafxonshxp, too, between our cixents anu 'xhE ouuhV: Well, come to tne bench. vn dxseusbxbu nat huu at the beach off the record.) \ Vl%u\. NAHKil: x have no further quest ions of this witness. Kh. SncoE: Nothing i urther, ̂itf* X «t* fc> ̂j Eh, hhudn; berg cant Hughes. Thereupon, Wxnulak c. nuuuue., was called to the 3tand ana sworn us a witness and, having been first uuiy sworn, was ^xam inec ano testified as follows: tHl cEnkn: State your name for the record? THE WxikuUi: Sergeant William o. hughes, Northern district, Eaiwxmore City follce Department. TUn CDmhU: Tukc tne stand, please, Sergeant. William C. uuglies. THE ccbhf: hortnern District? THE *ITiinbS: yes, sir. CxiCCC x iiMCwij.iiJi T1 dft 609 BY .MR. HA USE: 1 •) :{ 4 7> i; 7 s !) 10 11 12 10 14 IT) 1<> 17 18 lit 20 21 ■>2 20 24 20 610 Sergeant, how long have you been on the police Sixteen yeai’S. last year, cud you participate in an investigation at 2416 Eutaw 4>laoe?\ A Yet, air. Q With reference to an attempt to serve an arrest warrant? A Yes, sir. <4 Sergeant, what was your auty at that time? A 1 hau a group of approximately lour or five men, patrolmen, to cover the reur of 2410 Eutaw. <4 To cover the rear? A Yes, sir, In an attempt to apprehend anyone who may attempt to leave the real* of 2416 Eutaw . <4 oergeant, hau you ever oeen on one of these arrestja before? A in this particular investigation I was on numerous ones. Q Well, I mean have you been on $ny others in other cases in other years? A Yes, sir. \• ■ V\ h is that a usual practice to cover the back of the \house? 1 •) 4 5 (i 7 s !» 10 11 12 14 14 15 l(i 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 611 A Oh, yes, sir. Q Sergeant, why is that? A Well, it has been a usual thing that the suspected person will attempt to leave by any means possible, back, the sides, the roof top in an effort to escape arrest. Q So you went to the rear of the house and how many men did you take with you? A Four or five. Q Were you armed? A Yes, sir. Q And with what type of weapon? A I had a chest vest on and was armed with a .1 2 gauge shotgun, pump action. Q Now, Sergeant, have you received speoial training . A Yes, sir, I have. Q ... in the operation of this gun? A Yes, sir. Q And any of these four or five officers with you ... A Were armed with service revolvers and equipped with two twelve volt hand flood lights. Q Flood lights, they had no special weapons? A None other than their service revolvers. Q Tell His Honor Just briefly what you did? Did you ever enter the house? A No, sir, at no time did I enter the house. 612 10 li \ Q Any of the men under your command enter the house? A No, sir. Tell His Honor what you did at the rear of the V house, you anu the men unuer your command? \\ A \ 'we entered the alley in the rear of 2416 Eutaw at approximately^ 1 :3 0 A.M. I aBBigneu two men to the rear gate, the rear of 24IC has a garage in the yard and the garage coverjii all of the back except for a walkway between the property at 2414. The gate is at the house end of the garage. Two of the men were assignee in that walkway at the gate. Neither of the patrolmen entered the yarn. 12 i:l 14 ir> l(i 17 IS 1!) 20 21 2-'! 24 25 1 entered the yard at 241b, immediately north of 2416. The yarc hau no fence anu it was open. I walked up to the rear of 2416. 1 stationed one man at the alley entrance to the yard at 2416 where he coulu see the roof line of the building, and one man with rat. The officer with me had the hand light ana he shined the hand light in the area-way between 2416 and 2416 Eutaw. This light was focused on a fire escape that ran between the two buildingB leading in and was in the proprety and attacnea to the property 2416 Eutaw. The officers in the yard at 2416 that were standing outside the gate at 2416 were also equipped with a hand light,, Q, Sergeant, is this a metal fire escape? A 1 as, eir• Q Or is it wood? \ 1 •> :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 1 1 12 14 14 15 Hi 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 \ A No, sir, it is a metal fire escape that runs be tween the back of the house, it ha3 a porch enclosure on the first floor that is closed in and to the best of my knowledge the second and third floor porches were open, just a wooden railing around it. Q Now, did you or anyone under your command ever go up that fire escape? A No man in my command and at no time while we were in the rear did any man enter the yard past the gate, he was on the property up to the gate at the house end of the garage but neither myself or any man in my command entered that yard. Q Did you see anybody that was in the house come out the fire escape or come out the back? A No one come out pn the fire escape. Q Approximately how long did you remain with the de tail in the rear of 2416 Eutaw Place? A Oh, approximately fifteen minute's. I'd say fifteer minutes at the most, MR. SAUSE: Your witness. 613 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. NABRIT: Q Did ypu see anyone on tht/ fire escape during the period that you were there? A No, sir. Q Did you see anyone on the roof of 24l£ or any of 393 ?inf 1 ■) 4 4 5 (i 7 s !» 10 11 12 i:t 14 15 10 17 IS 1!) 20 21 24 24 25 614 the adjoining houses? A Z^OQuldn't see the roof line but none of mj men went on to the roof. (4 X askeu you, aid 2‘bu^see anyone? A No, sir, 1 couldn't see th^roof, Q Do you know whether or not any officers were assig ed to go on the roof of the adjoining houses or 24x6? A No, sir, none of my men were assigned to th^roof and X know of no other officer being ordered on to a roof. Q Sergeant, were there periods during this investi gation when you were in command? A Yea, sir. Q Do you know what those periods were? A I don’t know when it , Q Was it a certain shift? A I don’t know exactly when it started but I had the three P.M. to eleven P.M. shift for a period of time, the datê j I don’t recall. Q Was it later in the Investigation? A Yes, sir. o q 4 Q Later? A Later, after the 27th of Deoember, Q In that capacity did you lead any raids? A Yes, sir, MR. NABRITj Your Honor, earlier counsel offered tb 1 ■) 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 IT) 1<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 THE COURT* There is no use in trying to tost the officers recollection on that. BY MR. NABl̂ iT* q 5\rgeant, aiu you happen to participate in tne Investigation i*^ember jjOth, about j**15 P*M. at 240o nuron Place, the Wallace \ ‘amlly? A Huron. <4 in the Mount'^inana section. A 1 cion't recall no, sir. THE COURT* That i* the place where somebody was showing some movies, or Borne slides, lights went on and off in the dining room, according to some oviuence. THE WITNESS* ho, sir. MR. MURPHY* That is the only one I don‘t have clear information on. That is why I asked counsel to auk him about that. \ THE COURT* 1 tninK they would remember the lights going on and off in the dining room. BY MR. NABRIT* Q Sergeant, you are assigned to the Northern ^strioH 615 or the Northeast? A Northern District. \ \ Q Northern District. During the period when you were in charge of the investigation, Sergeant, did you have a problem with false 1 •> :( 4 5 (I 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1(> 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 616 telephone tips? A Yes, sir. Q Ana aia you indicate that to a newspaper man sayin it was a problem? A X beg your pardon, Q Did you indicate that to a newsman that that was one of the problems? MR, SAUSh: If Your Honor please, I don't under stand that question at all and I don't sec how the Sergeant ca answer it. MR, NABRIT: He can answer. THJb. COURT* I don't know whether he can or not. If the Sergeant doesn't understand the question he can say so If he does understand it he can answer It, I don't know cnoug of the background to be able to say whether he should or should not, I will overrule the objection and see if the Sergeant understands the question enough to answer it. THfc WITNESS* You mean did I tell newspaper people In particular? BY MR. NAURU: Q That you were having a problem of false tips. A X told everybody that, my superiors and so forth, that we were having problems with false tips, Q l.'hat was the problem, what kind of false tips? D you take call3 yourself, for example? 3 9 6 617 A People would call and give ua Information, give us their name, their own name purportedly, and we'd attempt to meet them at a location to receive information and by the time we'd get there or have some unit there to meet them, no one would show. We were wasting a lot of time running out this false information. They were giving us vacant houses or house that were torn down, no longer existed. We'd go into the area and waste a let of time, Q Was there any change in the method of investigating tips because of this problem? A Well, that is when we set up the change where the whole unit would leave from the station house. We were leaving on surveilance and investigation and observation. Q Do you remember about when that change was made? A No, sir, I don't. Was it ,,, It was early in the investigation to the best of my knowledge but the date I don't ... Q After two or three days? A Honestly, I couldn't answer shat, I don's recall. Q How about anonymous phono calls, did you make raldr because of phone calls where people wouldn't give their names? A We received information from all sources, communi cation bureau, tne news midia, other districts received Informs tion and we governed ourselves accordingly with what 9145. infor- 1 •) .! 4 :> n 7 ,s !) 10 11 12 10 14 IT) Hi 17 18 10 20 21 •>2 20 24 2') mation and our surveilance would turn up to whether we inould make a raid or not. 618 anonymous. THE COURT: The question was, were somv- of them THE WITNESS: Anonymous, yes, sir. BY MR. NABRIT* Q Do you remember about how ma^y of them that you knew about? A No, sir, I have no knowledge. Q A groat many? A I couldn't even answer that. THE COURT! I don't know what a great many means. Would you aak the question wa3 It In the nature of ten, in the nature twenty five, in the nature of fifty, in the nature of a hundred anonymous tips? THE WITNESS* I don’t think it would be twenty fiv It would be less than twenty five, probably more than ten. THE COURT* And do you know how many you iailec. to go out on? THE WITNESS* No, sir. THE COURT* Any, did you go out on any? THE "ITNESS* Yes, sir, we failed to go out on som yes, sir. When I say failed to go out, we failed to take the unit on a raid. We went out on it but we didn*t make any 3 9 I 1 •) :{ 4 7> (i 7 S (» 10 n 12 i:t 14 To l(i 17 18 1!) 20 21 •)•> 28 24 27) 619 BY, MR. NABRIT: \ Q Sergeant, do you have any knowledge concerning the raid dn any house on Roseaale, that is either in terms or be ini there oi; in terms of knowing how the raid came about? A \ No, sir. Q, \22Q4 Roseaale? A No, sir, I wasn't there when the Information was received on raia and I didn't participate in the raid. q Sergeant, did you have anything to do with applyinj for or obtaining a\ Federal warrant for the Veney brothers? A No, slr\ THE COURT'* That question has come up. Would you like to know who does know anything about it? MR. NABRITi Yes, I would. THE COURT: The quickest way would be to ask ... ME. MURPHY: I think we can produce the warrant itself and I think that would ba, the easiest way. ME. NABRIT: What I was interested in is, which of any officer in the Baltimore Department furnished the informa tion or applied ... MR. MURPHY: I tnlnk Lieutenant Olover testified concerning this warrant. As I recall you asked him the questl( \THE COURT: He gave 3ome testimony but he wasn't very clear about It. MR, MURPHY: He didn't push him very 1 • ) :t 4 :> (i 7 s (i 10 11 12 l:l 14 1.7 1<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 THE COURT* It would help a good deal, there woul be an affidavit attaohed to it,, wouldn't there? MR. MURPHY: I am not Bure of that, Your Honor. THE COURT: iftio has it? I think we can clear the matter. MR, MURPHY: Lieutenant Camden., he has tne warrant and perhaps at she time he testifys we can develop the time and circumstances under which the warrant was made. TIDE COURT: That is all right. BY MR. NABRIT; _i i m .inMiir1 1 '■■■' "W"-**•»*--' "H*--** r̂ *""Tfcl'n "ULlni ~~ 620 Q Sergeant, you testified you had been on the force sixteen years? A Yes, sir. Q How long have you been a sergeant, six*? A April of '64, I think it was. Not a year. Q Had there been prior investigations into other crimes where procedures similar to those used in this investi gation in terms were used? A I don’t understand. Q Let me narrow that down, acting on anonymous phone calls, other crimes? A Yes, 3ir, service of warrants, Q 1 beg your pardon. A In the service of warrants, yes, sir. Q Service of arrest warrants? 1 •) :t 4 r> <; 7 S !) 10 1 1 12 i:s 14 IT) 1<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 27. 621 A Yes, sir, People call in information that so and so is now at such and such location and we have a warrant for him, we check and we do have a warrant for that person, A car is dispatcher, there to look info the matter. If it seems that there Is anything to the person being there he calls for anoth car and they attempt to serve the warrant. q Ana they make an entry and search on occasion? A Yes, sir. q ho from that point of view this is something — iiuve you partioipateu in others over a period of years? A In serving warrants it is a requisit that the sergeant accompany the patrolman on the service of all criminaf warrants, Q bo you have done this before since April '64, othe crimes? A iea, sir. We don't tear a place up or search a place, as you put it, wo go xn and we question the person, if he is known there and so forth, talk to the people, and one occasion we have requested and received permission to hi room, MR. NABRIT: That is all. MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. Sergeant, THE COURT: Let me speak to counsel again. (Witness excused,) (Discussion at the bench eff the record.) 622 MR. SAUSE* Lieutenant (tones. Thereupon, 10 i i 12 18 14 15 111 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 LYMAN WILLIAM GONCE was called to the stand and sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was exaraf ined and testified as follows* THE CLERK* State your name for the record? THE' WITNESS * Lieutenant Lyman W. Gonce. THE CLERK: Sp<2‘3kJL^our name, please? THE WITNESSt Lyman, L~y-m~a-n, William, Gonce, G-o-n-c-e. THE CLERK* G-o-n-c-e? TliE WITNESS* That Is correct. Northeastern Distrio DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SAUSE: Q Lieutenant, how long have you been a member of the police force? A Eighteen years. Q How long have you been a lieutenant? A Since November 19, 1964. 401 Q 1964? A That la correct. Q Now, directing yo.;r attention to December 2 7th of last year, did you have occasion to go to 2416 Eutaw Place? A I did. Q And would you tell His Honor first of all what was t > 1 ■> 4 o (i 7 S !* 10 11 12 14 14 IT) 111 17 IS 10 20 21 22 2.4 24 25 623 your position or what was your capacity In going to 2416 JSutaw Place? A I didn’t have an official capacity other than bein a police lieutenant. The investigation was being conducted by Lieutenant Manuel and actually I was working on the four to twelve shift anu after my tour of duty I cleaned up my papers and so forth, I was drinking a cup of coffee and several phone calls had came in and Lieutenant Manuel was discussing this on from the information that he received from this liquor store and so forth and I went along with them on this raid, only as an assist, that is all. Q Did you go up to the house? A After the armor division and Lieutenant Manuel had entered the home, it was approximately two or three minutes or maybe five minutes after they were inside, then I went in. Q You went in? A Yes, sir • Q Now, did you A No. The onlyNo. The only thing I had was my service revolver and that was in my overcoat pocket, in my uniform holster in ray overcoat pocket. Q Did you have the gun out? A No, I did not have my gun out, I had my hand on gun in ray pocket. I never took my gun out, Q Now, Lieutenant, there vna testimony here the othe^ 4 0 ? 1 ■) 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 Hi 14 15 K i 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 624 day by a woman who Indicated that she walked up the stairs and there was a man, a police officer behind her with a gun in her back, h finat was not* a polios officer, that was me, Q It was youi a fnat is cox^reot, Q And, Dieuuenant, you said you never had your gun out, Would you explain now tnat was? A What happened, when I arrived I walked back through the hallway and if I am not mistaken it was Detective Oliver Walker, Detective Sergeant Shrinex* standing on the steps, I aBked them how far tney had gotten with the search and Lieuten ant Manuel was standing off the the side talking to some, apparently an occupant of the home and Detective Walker and Sergeant Shriner said they anticipated going upstairs but they were waiting for a member of the family or somebody to go up with them. At that point a lady came down the stairs and whil the three of us wore standing there she said, what's going on? And at that time I told her, I said, we have reason to believe that subjects are here that are wanted for a serious offense, assault and shootxng, and she sale who? And said the Veneys She said, well, they're not here, X said, well, wouli you mlnjj If we go upstairs? She said, of course not, come on up. She started to go first and I said, no, please, don't go first, we 1 •) 2 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 IT) l(i 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 625 Just want you to accompany us. As we started up the stairs I started to follow the two men with armor plate on hut with that the lady got around on the side of me, in fact, I even took her arm while she got around on the side of rue and then the lady followed them and I followed the lady up to the second floor. Then there were several other officers who followed me, I don’t know, I’m not positive Just which ones. Q Lieutenant, is the usual practice that the men wit the body armor go first if they have reason to believe there i3 a dangerous suspect in the house? A Yes. Q And where there is danger of — is it a rule of your department where there is danger you don’t put a citizen in front of a police officer? A Oh, of course, not, no, Q That is what I thought. A We Just wanted the lady to go with us, in fact, before we went up there I aBked her if there were any other women upstairs in bed asleep, unclothed and she said no. MR. SAUSiij Your witness: CROSS KXAMXKATIQN 4 C 4 BY MR. NABRIT* Q Lieutenant, where were you standing when the door opened? 1 •) :! 4 .") (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 1.7 1(5 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 626 \ A I was standing in front of the house next door. Q\ Which side facing the house? A \ Wait a minute now, I'm not positive which way it runs. If yoir were lacing the house I would have been to the left, to the lel\ where there is a stairway to the other house,, Q How lon^ after the first officer went in did you enter? A Q in? A seven or \ Well, there was a light lit when we first arrived , I aeked you how long after they went in die you go I'd say five minutes, maybe three minutes, or maybf « eight minutes. Q How many officers went in before you? A Men viitn armor and Lieutenant Manuel, Q Any others? A No, 3ir. Q So that would be how many men with armor? A Approximately four. \ Q How many came behind you? A How many came behind me, I'm not positive, it couldn't have been more than maybe two uniformed men because I was — after the lady took us upstairs I don't even rememtm any uniformed men being upstairs with us. Q Did you go to the third floor? A No, I did not. When I arrived on the seoonu floor !) 10 11 12 18 14 15 Itt 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 the back door was locked and to the best of my memory It was Sergeant Shrlner a3ked for a key, the lady said, wait a minute We waited and she came back with a key, I don't know where sh^ went to get the key. She went down the hall and I remained between the door arid the steps leading down to the first floor I uo not know who actually opened the back door but I know the lady did not go in first, the lauy backed off away from the officers as they went in. After the officers went in, then I went in. There was a back door, another door and if 6 Q This is inside the locked door? — 1 A That is right, inside the locked room and it was one of the detectives starting to unlock the door and at that time I said, wait, there's officers out back, at least let a uniform go out there, and when I opened up the door I hollered out, police, and then 2 looked and it was a back porch, I walked around the back porch, I looked over the back porch railing on the right hand side and to the best of ray knowledge there was a long fire escape leading up to the roof and I askec one of the officers standing down in the alley if he had been watching the fire escape. He said he taid been watching the fire escape before you all even went inside, I a/.id, has any body gone up or down and somebody in the allby said, no, no police and there hasn't been anybody else use tĥ it fire escape, Q Now, at this point you were on an opeiAporch on the 627 1 •) :i 4 5 iff 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 10 17 18 lit 20 21 •>2 22 24 25 628 third floor? A Yea, 0. Did you have a flashlite? A air? Q Did you have a flashlite? A Oh, yes. Q And it was on, the flashlite was on? A On ,\yea. Q Was this on the third floor. the second floor? A The second floor. We came back in, one of the men locked the door and gave the key back to the lady and then the lady went up to the third floor with, I think it was Sergeant Connolly, Detective De Paula, maybe another officer, I don't know, and I remained on the second floor near the landing. When they came uown we went right down the steps and with that we went right on out the front door ana Lieuten ant iflanuel and several of the others were following. I heard somebody give some sort of a holiday greeting but I didn't re spond because I didn't hear it that well. Q Now, do I understand you correctly to say that when you were going up the steps there were two men with body armor, the lady ... \ A They were standing ... \ Q Well, I am trying to get the order of\people who went up,first the two men with body armor, then this lady who \ 1 •> :{ 4 li 7 M !) 10 11 12 i:i 14 ir> 10 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 2o 629 met you, then some more men with body armor? A That is correct. I started to go in front of the lady but then the lady kind of worked around us. Q And you all went up one after the other? That iB correct. When we got to the top I didn't The men behind you had weapons? Ion. Tĥ s men behind you had either shotguns or machine A Q A Q guns? A Oh, yes* there would have been probably one or two shotguns. Q Now, you 3aid you questioned her as to who was upstairs, did she tell you there was nobody up there but her children? A The only thing I remember asking her about upstair is there any women up there because I knew that our men would want to enter the rooms first and if there would have been any women in any of those rooms, we wanted her to call through the door first* I do recollect her saying something about, are you going to wake my children and I told her we*re not here to wak: children. Now, I don't even know if there wa^ any children in the rooms upstairs. Q You didn't go to the third floor? A No, I didn't go to the third floor andvon the 1 • ) :t 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 ir> i<; 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 630 1 V second floor the only room I went In was all the way to the back. ^ Did you aak her if the Veney brothers were upstair A Wo, I didn't. I told her what we were thexe for, we had reasonable ground to believe that they may be there and would she mif̂ d us looking around, She said, no, inaeeu. And she started up\first and that's when 1 tola her, no, come back we don’t want you to go first* Q She had Just come down? A She had Just come uown from ups taxi's for something I don’t know what she was doing up there. Q But you aidn’t ask her who was upstairs? A I aekea her If there was any women up there. I wanted to make sure that ... \ Q I take it you were going upstairs no matter what she said? A No, I wouldn’t say that. The lady was so agreeabl with us I Just didn't go any further with it. Q Well, what was her answer when you asked her if there were any women upstairs? \ A Bhe said, no, there's no women upstairs. Bid you ask her if there were any men upsdalrs?Q A I may iiave, X don't know. I don't recall that. \ MR, NABRIT: Your witness. MR. BAUSB: No questions. Thank you very\raueh, Lt. \ 1 • ) :t 4 <> 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 111 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 2.7 (Witness excuseu.) JHE dOURT: Perhaps this would be a good time to take a break uniebs^ou would rather take it later. »<c wxlx taue n^ahor b recess. 631 ^nuucss.) i‘u i• as lour Honor nave nearu the Pollc department is on a full-time scneduie and i Would like to take this lieutenant out or turn because it would work out better. Thereupon, ....... ..... ^ "" Uudidu G. «-»v/iuw»iii4jj# was called to the stand and sworn as a witness and, having been first uuly sworn, was exam ined and testrlled as followsi Tibi GLuRKi State your name for the record? TJib WlfitGLii: George u. Schnabel, G-c-h-n-a-b-e-1 iiin djdsHivi S-c-h-n-a-b-e-l, Gcoi>ge C. Schnabel. blKnwT ivXAMIAIATIGK B7 MR. 3AUSB: Q, Lieutenant, how long have you been a member of the police force? \ A eighteen years. Q How iong have you been a lieutenant? \A September, 19b9. Q how, directing your attention tbyJanuary 2nd, of this year, did you participate in an investigation in an attemb to serve warrants at 2707 Parkwood Avenue? 1 • ) :{ 4 f> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:t 14 If) l(i 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 24 2.7 632 \ A Yea, air. Q What was your capacity there. Lieutenant? A Well, actually 1 was assistant to Lieutenant Hewes who was actually in charge. Q Now, tell His Honor what happened after you arrive< there and what was the extent of your participation and what you observed? A Well, I'll have to start a little ahead of that. Q All right. A About 1:15 A.M. on the second I received a call from my dispatcher who said a taxi driver would meet me at North Avenue and Pulton Street and give me information as to where the Veney brothers could be found, I immediately called Sergeant McManus who is a member of the riot squad, Sergeant Mathias and Office Hyde, on cruiser patrol, and we proceeded to North Avenue and Pulton Street where we met the cab driver, a Diamond cab, 893, and he stated that the house at 712 Newing ton Avenue, he suspected that the Veneys would probably visit this house. Upon getting this information as the house was in the Northern District I went to my microphone and started to call for the lieutenant in the Northern District and as I was calling Lieutenant Hewes was calling for C.P, 12 and several of his other cars to meet him at Fulton and Flora. I immediate ly took the cab driver and went to Fulton and Flora where the cab driver related the information to Lieutenant Hdwes and 1 •> :t 4 5 (> 7 S !) 10 11 12 1.1 14 15 1<> 17 IS 10 20 21 22 20 24 25 633 Lieutenant Hewes also stated that he had turned Newington Avenue up, it had been turned up before, and we dismiss-d the cab driver. While we were waiting for Cruiser Patrol 11 to arrive this colored male — he was in his late thirties — cam* up and said, are you going to turn up Parkwooa Avenue? And we said, yes. And he said, this is the information the Afro boy told me about and X called in, and someone asked the man his name and the man said, 1 don't want to get involved but if anything happens the Afro boy will step up and tell you who it is. Lo we then — then the Lieutenant Hewes tola us the address ol 2707 Parkwooa where we were going to gc around, So in the meantime the cruiser patrol pulled up, the men got 02 their armor ana the different men took shotguns and we proceed< to this Parkwooa where Lieutenant Hewes knocked on the door. Upon receiving no answer took a stick ana he hit the door a little louder ana at that time a colored feraala appeared at th^ door anu Lieutenant Hewes tola the colored female who we were looking for and asked permission tc search the house and she said, certainly. Ana that is when we went into the house. I went up to the second floor with Sergeant KcManun and Officer Hyde and went into tae middle room where I and Sergeant McManus proceeded to searen, Two small children were sleeping in the bed. The children were not awakened. 1 •> :i 4 f> (i 7 S «» 10 11 12 14 14 IT) 1(4 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 634 About three or four minutes later I heard someone call, everything la all right, and then Sergeant McManus and Officer Hyde and myself, we proceeded downstairs. At that time I saw Lieutenant Hewes apologizing to the lady for \ interrupting and we left.\ <4 Were you wearing body armor?\ A Wo, I was not. Q Lid you follow someone else, you followed other officers into the horau, is that right? A Sir. Q You did not go into the home first, you followed other officers? A Lieutenant Hewgb went in first, then I went in. THE COURT* Was he in body armor? THE WITNESS* No, he was not. EY MR. SAUSEs Q This cruising patrol that you were referring to, is that the emergency vehicle? A Yes, it was. Q How were you armed. Lieutenant? A I had my revolver in ray coat pocket, my overcoat pocket. Q You didn't take it out? A No, I did not, Q Lieutenant, did you have any conversation with any 1 ■) :i 4 .’) (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 l.'i 14 ir> in 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 20 24 27) 635 V , . of the occupants In the home? A No, I did not. Q Did you overhear any conversation that anyone else iiad with UiQ occupants of the home? \ A Just Lieutenant Hewes speaking to the lady of the \ house. Q When you left? A Sir. Q Was that when you were leaving? A When we entered I heard Lieutenant Hewes, and he also showed her pictures of the Vency brothers. THE COURT* When? THE WITNESS* At the beginning, before we entered. BY MR. SAUSE* Q You heard Lieutenant Hewes talking and requesting permission to ... A Search. Q ... inspect the home and you also saw him show pictures to the occupants ... A Yes, sir. Q ... or the female occupant of the home, is that right? A That is right. Q Did you hear anything that this female occupant sa: A Well, she said, she gave permission to search. 1 ■> :t 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 l.'l 14 15 1<> 17 IS 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 636 \ Q Did you hear that? A She said, certainly, go ahead and search. That’s her exact worua, certainly, go ahead and search. Q nid you hear what you said as you were leaving? You said Liyutenant Hewes was talking to her again? A Add her exact words were, that’s quite all right, you are only tiding your job. MR. SAUSK: Your witness. \ CROSS EXAMINATION liY MR. NABRIT: Q Lieutenant- Schnabel, is it? A Yes, sir. Q Lieutenant, approximately how many men entered 2707 Parkwood that night, police officers? A Let’s see, myself — I’d say between six and eight Q Vihen you went to the front door Lieutenant Hewes did the knocking? A Yes, he did. Q And how many other men were standing there near hi A Myself and two men in armor, Sergeant McManus, Sergeant Mathias, Officer Hyde. Q Where were you standing when — where was Lieutena HewQ3 standing when he displayed these pictures to the lady who answered the door? A Well, he was standing inside, Inside the door. 637 Was this in the living room or in the corridor A X think — wait a minute, Q \when you Bteppea in the door . A 1 tnink the lady said, come in, I'm not sure of that now whether it was in the vestibule or in the living room,, I'm not sure, Q The vestibule area is very small, isn't it? A Yes, Q And when you go through the second door isn't there a hall there in front of you and the living room on the right? A The living room on the 3ide, yes. We could have been in that living room, I'm not very sure about that, whether we were in the vestibule or the living room, Q. Or the hall in front of the living room? A Yea, Q You coula have been in any of the three places when the conversation went on? A Right. Q Now, what was the substance of that conversation between Lieutenant Hewes and ,,, A Well, Lieutenant Hewes told her what we were there for and showed her pictures and asked her permission to search, Q And he Bhowea her the pictures before he asked per mission to search? 1 •> :{ 4 .") (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 If) 10 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 22 638 A Yes. \ Q Yes? A Yes. He also said something about a Garrett, does a Garrett live here or something like that. I didn’t know anything about this but X heard him say something about, does a Garrett live here. Q Lieutenant Hewes asked the lady if a Garrett lived there? A Yes. He had the information and I wasn’t familiar with the information he had. Q And your recollection is that at this point that that conversation was either in the vestibule, in the hall or in the living room? A Yee# I’m not sure. Q You wouldn’t deny it was in the living room, would you? A I couldn't deny it, no, because it is not clear. A lot of people will say, well, step in, I don't want the neighbors, you know. I'm not sure. Q Had the two men in armor also entered right behind you? A Behind us, yes, Blr. Q And were they there during this conversation? A To the best of my knowledge they were there. I kn< nobody went upstairs until we got permission from the lady to 1 •( 2 4 .’> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 1.') 1(> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 25 639 go through the house, Q And the two men in armor had their weapons display A Yes, THE COURT} Who went in first, the two men with armor? \ THE WITNESSi No, Lieutenant Hewes, Lieutenant Hewss, then I followed, THE COURT} And the men in armor behind you? THE WITNESS} Yes, sir. THE COURT} They come in right behind you? THE WITNESS} Right behind us. BY MR. NABRIT: Q When you got to the second floor you went in the middle room? A The middle room, yes. Q And you observed two small children, I believe you said? A Yes, Q And you testified they were not awake? A They were not awakened, no. Q How do you know that, sir? A Because I looked at them. Q And their eyes were closed? A Yes. Q And Is that the basis that you determined they 640 not awake? MR. SAUSE: Well, if Your Honor please, I don’t know what human being could determine that in any other taanner THE COURT: I don’t see any use of interrupting the cross examination on it. The Court is \ HR. SAUSE: Well, I object, THE COURT: The Court is conscious of the point you make, MR. SAUSE: Well, if he pursues it any further, Your Honor, as he is about to do. THE COURT: Well, I will wait for an attention. MR. SAUSE: Yes, sir. BY MR. MERIT: Q Do you know if those children were boys or girls? A Let's see, they were boys. I’m almost sure they were boys. Q A Q A Q children A Q A Did you turn the light on in that room? No, we did not. How did you see? With a search light. And was the light shown on the beds where the were ? Oh, yes. How many of you entered that room? There yjas myself, Sex’geant McManus and Officer Hyde* 641 Q Three of you? A Yes. Q And were there other men, other officers on that floor at the same time? A Yea, How many others? A I'm not sure, X uon't know. Q Die you or Officer McManus or Officer Jfyde go in the front bedroom? A ho, we did not. Q hone of the three of you did? A ho, we stayed in there. Q Did either of the three of you go in the rear bed- room? A ho, we did not. Q Ano there were other officers in those bedrooms at the same time you were in the middle room? A I Imagine there were, I couldn't swear to it. There was noise in the hallway. Q There was noise in the hallway? A Yea. Q Did the men make any effort to be quiet? A Yes, sir. 1 told my men not to wake the children. I have children of my own. Q had you been told there were children in those roots? 1 •> 4 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 i:t 14 IT) 1(5 17 IS 1!) 20 •21 22 24 24 25 642 A No. Q Had you Inquired before you went up there? A No. Q i>ia anyone ask who was upstairs before you went upstairs? A X didn't hear anyone ask, no, THb COURT: I am trying to place 2707 Parkwood Avenue. Parkwood or Parkview? THC WXTNiiod: Parkwooa. THIS COURT: Parkwood, Well, where is ParKwood? THU WITNESS: Your Honor, it is off of Fulton Avenue, that's all I know. I'm not from over in that district, THB COURT: Off of Fulton Avenue and up near Druid Hill Park? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, BY MR. NABRIT: Q Am I oorrect that this is an attached house, small narrow house? A It is a row house, yes, Q Row house, about how wide? A I don't know, I have no idea, Q About fifteen feet, do you think? A 1 imagine so. Q You imagine so. About what time did you arrive at the house? \ 1 •> :{ 4 5 <; 7 S !) 10 11 12 18 14 15 l(i 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 643 A About five minutes to two. \ Q Now, while you were upstairs, did the lady of the house accompany you upstairs? A No, she did not. Q Did she come upstairs later on? A \Not to mi’ knowledge she didn't. Q Officer, I didn't hear your testimony about the Afro ... THE COURT: I didn't understand it at all. I wou: like to have the story of why they went in. If you hadn't asked I would have asked him to tell us again a little more clearly why they went into this house and what did Garrett have to do with it anu so forth. THE WITNESSi Well, actually, I did not receive the information on this Parkwood. While we wore waiting for Cruiser Patrol 11 this man came up to Lieutenant Hewes and myself and asked us if we were going to hit the house on Park* wood. THE COURT: Just the house? THE WITNESS: Just the house, he didn't give us a number, he said the house on Parkwood. THE COURT: This is a man not connected with the police? THE WITNESS: No, this was a civilian, and he sail is this the house that the Afro boy had information on and he 1 •> :{ 4 5 <) 7 S !( 10 11 12 18 14 15 Hi 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 644 didn't mention the house number* THE COURT: And you didn't know what he wa3 talk; about, whleh house he was referring to? THE WITNESS: No, I Uld not. THE COURT: You Just went along with Lieutenant Hew rs? THE WITNESS: Lieutenant Hewe», yes, sir. THE COURT: Lieutenant Hew^e was in charge? THE WITNESS: Yc b. THE COURT: Is Lieutenant Hewes going to testlfyl MR. MURPHY: Yea, Your Honor, he is here to test! BY MR. NABRIT: Q Lid you go on a raid at 2408 Huron Place, 9:15 at night on December 30th, in the Mount Winans area, the Wallace family ? A What time? Q About nine or later in the evening, A No, I was twelve to eight. I was twelve midnight to eight in the morning. I was not working, Q How many raids did you go on during your twelve midnight to eight in the morning shift during this InvestigatJ A Around six or seven, THE COURT: Which district are you assigned to? THE WITNESSt Northeast. THE COURT: But you were not part of this squad? 1 ■> 8 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 10 17 18 !!• 20 21 22 28 24 25 645 THE WITNESS: No, I was not. Q You testifieu that the lady who answered the door at some point said, go ahead and search or something like that BY MR. NABRIT; A Q A Q A Q A k A \ Yes. Hov; many men were in the house at that point, poltj Just myself and Lieutenant Hughes. And the two men behind you? well, they were waiting. Where were they waiting? They were waiting at the door. In the front hallway? Yes. In other words, they were waiting behind us, I don't know whether I was in the hallway or if I was in the living room now, it is not clear. MR. NABRIT* No further questions. MR. MURPHY: All right, thank you very much, (Witness excused.) Thereupon, ROBERT DE PAULA vias callea to the stand and sworn as a witness and, having beer first duly Bworn, was examined and testified as follows; THE CLERK; State ̂ your name for the record, please THE WITNESS* DotectivexRobert De Paula, Assault and Robbery Squad, Detective Bureau. 1 ■) :{ 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 1.5 14 If) i<; 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 646 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY m 9 SAUSEs of the Detective De Paula, how long have you been a membe Uce force? A M'm on my thirteenth year, Q Ndw, directing your attention to December 2 7th of last year, did you have occasion to participate in an inspec tion of the premises at 2416 Eutaw Place? A I did, sir, Q Now, were you clad in boay armor at that time? A Yes, sir, I was. Q And what sort of weapon , if any, were you carry in, A I was carrying a ,12 gauge shotgun, Q Have you received special training in the handling of that weapon? A I have, sir, Q Now, tell His Honor what happened that night? A Well, on orders from my superior and after an obse^ vation of 2416 Eutaw Place we responded to that location, Sergeant Shriner and myself went to the front door in our armoi*\ Sergeant Shriner knocked on the door, a colored male in his bottoms pajama /answered the door, Sergeant Shriner asked him — told him why we were here and asked him if we could search and he said, certainly. With that Lieutenant Manuel come up, permissL was given us to search, Sergeant Shriner and Detective Oliver \ 1 •> 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 Ki 17 IS 11) 20 21 22 22 24 25 647 Walker went into the dining room of this location, I was check ing the living room at the time wnen a woman come down from the second floor. She asked us what we were doing, we told her that we naa information the suspects in the assault and shooting of a police officer were in the house and we a s k e d her if we coulu I o o k upstairs, o n e said, certainly. £>he was laughing the whole time, ohe started to follow us up the \\steps, I asked to go in front of her because X had the bullet proof vest on. \\ At no time was there any objection to the search whatsoever ana at no time did X see any children in the house at all. X went to the second and third floor. Q You have been sitting her in court this morning, haven’t you? A Yes, I have. Q Now, Detective, going back a bit to when you first went in, you said you saw this subject in what appeared to be his pajama bottoms. Did you pat that man down? A No, sir, nobody patted him down. <4 In your thirteen years on the police force, based upon your experience, is it necessary to pat a man down wno was wearing the type — who was clad the way he was? A I don’t know what he possibly could have haa on him in his pajama bottom 1 •) 4 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 Hi 17 I S 1!) 20 21 22 2S 24 25 648 MR. SAIISE; 1 have no further questions. CROSS EXAMINATION Q About what time of night was this? BY MR. NABRIT: A A Q It was arouna one, one thirty in the morning. Are you a Detective Sergeant? Detective Patrolman. Detective Patrolman De Paula, when you went to the front door and Sergeant Shriner knockeu, where were you? A Standing right beside him. Q Right beside him? A Yes, sir. Q Now, whi *h door was he knocking on, the inner door or outer door? A As you go into the entrance there*s two doors open up like in half, the one was ajar. We went into the vestibule and Sergeant Shriner knocked on the large front door. It is only one door inside the vestibule. Sergeant Shriner knocked on that door. Q And Walker and Connolly were where? A Directly behind us. Q In the vestibule also? \ A I'm not oertain whether they were in ^he vestibule or standing on the steps. I don't believe they could have possibly been in the vestibule with us, yet I can't say that 1 •> :{ 4 .") (i 7 S !) 10 1 1 12 1 :i 14 ir> in 17 18 1!) 20 21 •>2 24 24 2.7 649 they weren't. Q Then when the door was opened what did you do? A dergeant dhriner told the roan what we were there for. Vihat uxu he bay? dir. \ Q A Q what axu he say?\ A ne saxu thuu we hau information that dam Veney\•. V either iiveu here or xs here now. And the man said, well, you're welcome to search, ano with that Lieutenant Manuel come up and the same thing was repeatea. Q The roan diun't say there was no dam Veney here? A I aon't recall whether he saxa it or not. Ci jjxu you ask him if dam Veney was there? A Vie tola him that we had information that dam Veney either livea there or was there now, Q But you aidn't ask him if dam Veney was there at that time? A I had no conversation with the man at all. Q You didn't hear dhrlner? A I can't say that I did. <i Bid you have any conversation with the man after you got inside the door? \ A X did not. Q Did Shriner? 1 •) 4 4 r> I! 7 S !) 10 11 12 l-'i 14 17) 1(» 17 IS 10 20 21 24 24 2.7 A Him and Lieutenant Manuel was talking to him, Q And the others, you and the other men had already gone by him in the hall or were already In the hall during tnat conversation? A We had proceeded on through after permission was given, Lieutenant Manuel continued his conversation with this man, \ Q Lid you hear Lieutenant Manuel's conversation? A No, I did not. Q You said a lady came uown tne steps laughing, was she excited, did she appear to be excited? A She was the most kindest and nicest person I ever met, in fact, I told Oliver Walker that when we left, thew woman from the second floor, I don't think she could have been anymore congenial, she was as nice as could be. She appreciati the fact we search her home, Q And you went to the second floor with her? A Yes, inuueu. \ Q And you went to the thira floor with her? A Yes, I did, Q Now, on the second floor what rooms did you go in? A I went in the front room — I went up the steps and turned to the left and I went through a room, and from this room to another room like to your left as you go in. In other words you turn left and there's another room to the left 650 651 i here. :{ 4 Q At the top of the steps Is a hall with a bedroom on your left and another room leading off that? A After tnat bedroom to the left again there is .) <; 7 S 15 1(5 17 18 24 25 another tearoom. Q And those rooms were empty? A Those rooms were all empty and Sergeant Connolly was with me with b light, in fact, X stepped into this other room before Sergeant Connolly could get to me and I asked him for a light because X couldn't find the switch. And we looked around, the cupboards were open and there was a shotgun, I'm pretty certain, in one of the cupboards. Q did you go to any’ other rooms on that second floor? A ho, X didn't. Q Vihlie you were in those rooms were there other men on the second floor in other rooms? A 1 cannot be sure of that. Q bid you see Walker or ... A I did see .detective Walker but X don't remember whether I seen him in the hall or one of the rooms, Q Going back a moment, down at the bottom of the steps did you ask the lady for permission to go upstairs or did someone else? A We were talking to her as she — in fact, she wanted to run right on upstairs. \\ 652 i •> :{ 4 .) (i 7 s !) 10 1 1 12 Q You say we, I want to know who. A It was Sergeant Connolly and myself going up the steps. Whether anybody was with us Immediately while we were going up the stops, i wouldn't say because i am not sure. But she wanted to go up ahead of us ana we askea her not to, to let me go in front because x haa the vest on, which she aiu ao, <4 wiu you as* her wnu was upstairs? n x asked her xf anyone was up tnere. <4 Vvnat uiu she say? A 1 uo not remember her exact reply but I thought that she said no one. However, i didn't see anyone up there at all. 14 1.7 1<> 17 18 1<) 20 21 22 24 Q bid sne say no one but my children? A I couldn't truthfully say. Q How, when you went to the third floor what room did you go in? A On the- third floor X went In the front room. Q To the top of the steps and you turned left? A 1 Deiieve so. H Then was there another bedroom that is a bedroom, the first room to your left? A Yea, sxr. \ Q The front bedroom? \ A Yea, sir. Q And to the left of that is there still another room?25 1 •) :{ 4 .') (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 IT) Hi 17 I S 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 653 A I do not know. Q Did you go in there and see a draftraan's tabl‘- or something? A No, l aid not see any draftman's table. Q What other rooms did you go in on the third floor? A 1 believe l only went in that one room on the thir floor, the hall ana that one bearoom. Q When you went to that front tearoom on the third, floor did you turn the lights on? A No, I don't believe I did. Q Did you have a flashlite? A I believe Sergeant oonnolly was with me with a light. Q Was the lady of the house with you? A The same woman that I'm talking about was in court the other day. I aon't see nor here today. I can describe her to you, ahe had a red sjclrt on, ane was a heavier set or big boned woman and Just as Jolly as she could be. Q And you didn't see any children in that bedroom? A I haven't seen a ohild in that nouse as yet. Q Did you see any beds in that front bearoom? A Yea, there was a bed. It was a regular bedroom. Q Well, if I suggest to you, Sergeant,\that there were four children in those bedrooms, would you deny It? A I would have to say you have been misinformed, yes, 1 • > :i 4 r> (i 7 s !» 10 11 12 Hi 14 ir, l(> 17 IS 1‘) 20 21 22 21 24 25 65^ This ia the third floor front? This is the third floor front, yes, sir. And you aon't recall any conversation where this woman was with you saxa, oca's saint the light at iny cnxluren? A Positively not. ^ Inhere are only two Deorooras on that thiru xloor, is that right?' A 1 caWiot say tnat, sir, 1 uo not know. V Q How mary officers went to the thirc floor? A r was with Sergeant Connolly and I believe there was maybe one or two, tnere nau to be at least two other ones \ up there. <4 Were you present wnun an officer on the third floo had a conversation wxth this lady aoout a picture ox her hus band, a picture of a man? A No, I wasn't. MR. NAURU': No further questions. MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. (Witness excused.) MR, MURPHY: Sergeant Connoilyv. Thereupon, RXdHARl) L. CONNOLLY was calico to the stand ana sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was oxan ined and testified as follows; THE CLERK: State your name for the record? 1 ■) :( 4 7> (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 17) Itt 17 18 lit 20 21 22 22 24 22 655 THE WITNESS: Sergeant Richard L, Connolly, Northeastern District, assignee to plain clothes, DIRECT iiXAMJLNATION BY MR. SAUSii: Q Sergeant, how long have you been a member of whe police force? 1 h April of this year will be thirteen years, Q, how long have you been a sergeant? A May of tnis year will be four years, q directing your attention to December 27th, lust year, did you have occasion to participate in the inspection of the premises at 2416 Eutaw Place? A fes, sir, 1 did. Q in what capacity were you serving? A I was the supervisor, not of the raid but in a general capacity as a supervisor, a sergeant, q sergeant, aiu you have any special protective equl Dent on or were you carrying any special service equipment? A ho, sir. I was in plain clothes, I hau no armor, I had my service revolver. Q Did you have your revolver drawn or was it in the holster? \ A ies, sir, 1 had it out, \ Q Tell His nonor what happened after yoW arrived at the scene and what took place if and when you entersd the hous^ \ 1 •) :{ 4 5 li 7 s !) 10 n 12 12 14 15 Hi 17 18 1!1 20 21 22 22 24 25 656 from\the time you arrived there until you left? A Well, I went to the door with Detective Sergeant Shriner, Detective De Paula and Detective Walker. I didn't have any armor so I stayed at the bottom of the steps and off to, I believe it was to the right of the door. Sergeant Shriner knocked at the door, and I saw him push the button for the doorbell. Several minutes later someone opened the door and Sergeant Shriner had a conversation with this man as to the cause for us being there. I heard him explain to the man that we had reason to believe that the persons we were looking for in connection with the assault and shooting of a police, in the homicide of a police may be at that residence and that I could hear the man on the inside say, well, go ahead and look around. Immediately after that Lieutenant Manuel went to the — came past me and tent through the aoor and had a conver aation with the men, which I didn't understand, or didn't hear because after we received permission to go ahead and look around we went on through the back. Q Sergeant, stop right there for a second. Did you or anybody pat this man down? A No, 3lr. I didn't sea anybody pat him down. Q low was he dressed? A He had pajama bottoms on and 1 thought he had a T-bhirt on. I didn't hear anybody else say that but I. thought 1 ■j 4 4 5 ii 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 Ki 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 657 he had a T-shirt on, I may be wrong, but he had pajama bottoms on. q Lct&tsu on your experience i n tne department is it necessui'y to p u t a iiieu down who -uS ciothtU in that manner? k Wo, air. ^ Wow, you saia that Lieutenant Manuel went in and had an additional discussion with this o*an and what did you do in the meantime? n i went uauk through the hall, and I am not ramiliaf with how many root ns were hack there but I went with Detective Sergeant Shriner unu Detective Walker to the back and we looked through a couple rooms back there and then this same man who hau openeu the uoor came back anc called to the ladyV in the room bnat the uoor was locKeu and sne opened the door. She was dressed in night clothes and 1 think Detective to-lker hau a short conversation with ner and he walkeu away and Detective Shrxner stood in the doorway anu I shined the light in there. X s t o o d oxi t o t h e s l u e o f t h e u o o r a n d 3 h in e u the\ light through that room so that he could see what was in there you held the light away from your body? a Yes, air, I stood off to the side and held the light away from me but I shined it arouna that\roora until Sergeant Shriner said O.K. And then i asked the lady how to get to the cellar and she pointed out to me where 'the cellar door would be and then X went down the cellar and thy same man 658 that had given us permission to come in the house — I don't know whether he came down behind me or whether he was already there but I went to the door in the basement that was locked and this man told me that it was a roomer that used that room but he wasn't home and he said he would unlock it and he aid unlock it and I looked at that room while this man was there. And on the other side of that room was another door that led to a bathroom and 1 looked in the bathroom and X heard other officers on the other side of the door — I believe there's two doors to that bathroom. The officers on the other side said there are police in here so I didn't bother going any further. So I left and that door was locked. I then went to the second floor where I saw Officer Flynn. He had some keys to some cupboards on that floor. Then I saw a woman hand some keys to Sergeant Shriner on the second floor and then I went to the third floor with Doctor De Paula, Detective De Paula, and as far as I can remember on the third floorl looked in the back room. I don't recall looking in the front room, I looked in the back room on the third floor. 21 22 2) 25 Q How, when you left did you have any conversation wi any people in the house? A No, sir. The only thing when I left somebody in the house wished us Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We didn't think it was too merry ourselves. th 1 •> 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 IT) 16 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 Q How long were you In the house, Sergeant? A Well, I didn't time it but I didn't think we were in any longer than fifteen minutes, maybe twelve to eighteen minutes, so m e w h e r e in t n e r e , X don't think it was any longer than that, \ MR, SAUbii* four witness, \ CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. NABRITs t* Sergeant, on the third floor X understand you to say that you don't recall going into any of the rooms to the front of the house? A No, sir, I don't recall going in, I may have but I remember the back room. It seemed like* to me i started to go in there and somebody said that room's o.k. (4 How many officers were up on the third floor? A I only recall on other officer there, Detective De Paula. <4 There were no other officers? A There may have been other officers but I don't recall anybody else. LIko X say, when I started to go in a room and somebody said that room's o.k. Bo possibly somebody else Was there ana searched that room before I was there. <4 Did you go all the way to the third floor back? A Yes, sir. <4 659 You did? 1 •) :t 4 r> <> 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 1') 1(1 17 I S 11) 20 21 22 22 24 25 660 A Yes, air. Q So you went through a hallway and a kitchen and a dining room on the third floor? A The back room is the one I started with, the one that goes out to the porch. I didn't open the door, to be honest with you. I started to and I seen it was an outside door and I just closed it because X knew there were officers in the back and X wasn't in uniform. Q Did you go through the living room in that third floor apartment? A X uon't recall going through the living room. I may have. Q Were you present at any time, at any conversation with a third floor occupant where a police officer found her husband's pioture and what he looked like and where he worked1 A No, sir. Q Did I understand you correctly to say that the la< in the first floor back bedroom pointed out the oellar door? A Yes, sir, an elderly lady, Q What do you mean she pointed it out? A Well, I asked her where the cellar door was and she said you have to go downstairs for that. Q And then? A Then I said, what do you mean, and she said, she pointed like through this way, so I went back, I think it was 1 •) :t 4 r> (> 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:i 14 If) i<; 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 2.7 661 two rooms, I wont back through those two rooms almost to the hallway, I believe it was, under- the stairs I believe the cellar door is. I’m not sure. But it is toward the front of the house* q But she didn't come with you? A Oh, no* Q Bhe stayed back in the room? A bhe stayed back, that's right, and I don't know whether she was still in the room or whether she had walked ov past that door shortly, but that is the only conversation I hua with anyone in the nouse other than what I had In the cel] ar with the man about the one room in the cellar. q You mentioned a new name, a person named Flynn wae in the houae? A Yes, sir. Officer Flynn* q Ana you say you saw Flynn with keys to a cupboardl A 1 believe there was some cupboards or closets on the second floor, someone had given him the keys to these cupboards * q You also saw a lady hand keys to Sergeant Shriner^ A Yes, sir* q how, before you entered the house you said you heard a conversation between Shriner and the man who opened the door? A Yes, sir. 662 q How long did they talk before Shrinor went in? A JU3t a matter of seconds, I would say long enough to explain why we were there ana get the permission to go in* Q What aia the man who openeu the door say? A The onry thing I heard him say was, go ahead and look around. You aon't have any trouble hearing Sergeant Shriner, he talks louu enough for you to hear, but I aidn't hear anything that the other person eaid other than go ahead and look around. Q When you wept In was this man who opened the door to the right against the wall? A 1 really don't remember, Q Lid you ever see him with his hands up against the wall? A No, sir. Q And you went in after Lieutenant Manuel? A Yes, sir, he passed me and went in and I went in behind him and Sergeant bhriner. Q Lid you see any children in the house at all? A No, sir, x don't recall any children at all. Q Were you in on any of' the other* eighty raids? Were you at Parkwood Avenue? A No, sir. Q Lutaw Place? This is Lufcaw, excuse me. Huron Place? 663 A No, sir. Q 2204 North Rosedale, empty house with a dog in itr A I would have to check that, I don't recall it but I'd have to check to see if 1 was there, I don't recall that one. k bhlelas Place, a narrow little street? A 1 aon't recall that one either. I couldn't say yes or no to that one. k Ihe Shepherd house, the old lady taken down to the station? A No, sir, k Allendale, three story frame house? A I'd have to cneck that. k December 26 th. A 26th? Q December 26th at around four, four thirty in the afternoon? A I don't think so, sir. I was at the funeral that day. I may have oeen but I don't tnink so. I'd have to check. 4 Were you at a house where there were four small children in the house alone? A I don't recall. Q 917 North d’hapel? A I wa3 there, yes, air. k Were you in charge or what was your capacity? 1 • ) :i 4 5 <i 7 S !) 10 n 12 12 14 15 1(1 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 664 A No, sir, Lieutenant Cadden was in charge* Q And did you enter that house? A Yes, sir. Q Did you fine anyone inside? A I don’t recall. The only thing I recall about this was that Lieutenant Caddenwas knocking on the door, the front door, and a small boy came from either on the steps or the street anu 3aid, I live here and he opened the ooor ana went in and we went in behind him and after that I’m blank, I don’t recall anything at all about that. Q You don't recall anything? A I don't even rerauraber the house except that my picture was in the newspaper on this one and that is how I knew I was there. Other than the child coming to the door an letting us in, I recalled that after I saw the picture in the paper. That is how I recall that. Q When you say child came to the door, you mean he came from outside? A Yes, he was either on the sidewalk or on the stre< playing and he came to the door while we were knocking at ohe door. Q Do you have any knowledge as to the reasons for that visit to 91? North Chapel? A No, sir. THE COURTs There is a note — you haven't gotten 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 i<; 17 18 10 20 21 22 28 24 these documents but there is a note on the back* '"-Hp, NABF.IT: I wonder if I might see that? I xLl. COURT: ourciy. (A aisouasion was had at the bench.) Mi. NABRIT; I have no further questions, HR. MlTRx’HY: Thank you very much, Sergeant, Lieutenant xiowes. Thereupon, ROBKRL J, liLViKS, v«as called to the stand an*': oworrjt as a witness ana, naving been first duly sworn, was examined and testifieu as followaj : State your name for the"reco?<!I?““— -— ■ THE WiTNiSSSj Robert J. Howes, H-e-w-e-s, THE CJAvrtK: R-o-w-e-s? THE WITNESS: Lieutenant, assigned to tin. Northerrli 665 District, BY MR. SAUSL; LiitLCT EXAMINATION q Lciutenant, how long have you been a member of the police force? A Since '41. Ci nnc now long have you been a lieutenant? Since ’5b. Lieutenant, January 2na, this year, at one o’clock£\ in the morning, a little after, die you nave occasion to go to 666 2707 Parkwood Avenue? A Considerably after one o'clock, yes, li All right, Wiiy did you go there? a i received a call from the dispatchex* over my radio to call the dispatcher, When 1 calico the dispatcher X was put through to Lieutenant Gilbert Krutzer who was the lieutenant in charge ox communication on that particular shift. Lieutenant Krutzer informed me that he had received a call that the Veney brothers were shackeu up at 2707 Parkwood Avenue with a latnxly by the name of Garrett, Q jciu the lieutenant tell you -- he tola you that •information hau come from where? A He nau received a call, u How, acting on tnat information from the Ircutenarit what did you oo? A First 1 urove u# 2707 Parkwooa Avenue to familiarize myself with the iocation. 1 tnen went to Pulton and Flora anc called the raaio dispatcher to notify the night inspector, inspector Frank Battaglia, tnat 1 was to make a turn up and searen of the Veney orothers. Then I called for 501, 502, 503, Cruiser Patrol 5, Cruiser Patrol 11 ana the raaio sergeant 53 0, and also the bailiwick sergeant 5 3 4, to meet me at Fulton and Flora. While this Informanon was going over the air I received another call from the dispatcher to the effect that Inspector Battaglia 4 0 8 1 •> :i 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:i 14 lo l(i 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 667 would not bo able to meet me but to proceed with my turn up. While I was awaiting the arrival of my own cars Lieutenant Schnabel, accompanied by two sergeants and a patrol man and his cruising patrol, drove up. Now, I didn't know at the time what Lieutenant Schnabel was there for and I assumed that he had heard me call my oars and that he, a lieutenant in the Northeastern District, was to take over the turn up. Now, ray Cruising Patrol 5 arrived on the scene and they had a prisoner and seeing that Schnabel was there with his men I told him it won’t be necessary, continue to the station. And then Lieutenant Schnabel told his cruising patrc that they wouldn't be needed, to continue on their rounds. All this was taking place,it covered a good five minutes, posBibly longer, and while I was talking to Lieutenair Schnabel and my Sergeant Schaffer, who was then the man in the 530 car, a colored man crossed the street from, I would suppos< you would call the south side cf Fulton Avenue to the north side where we were standing, and asked me if we were going to make a turn up on Parkwood Avenue, And he was a real respectal looking man that I took it for granted that he was probably the reporter for the Afro. I don't know who he was. And I said to him, why are you inquiring? He 3aid, well, the Afro boy who serves this neighborhood told me that he observed two colored men who resembled the Veney brothers going into a house on Parkwood Avenue. And I said to him, are you the man who 4 0 9 1 •) :i 4 5 (i 7 S 1) 10 11 12 1.5 14 15 1<> 17 IS 11) 20 21 22 24 24 25 668 called communications and he said, yes. At this time one of my officers came up to me and asked me a question and 1 turner away from the man and the conversation continued between he and Sergeant &chaffer. Now, do you want me to repeat the conversation? MR. NABRXIj Objection, unless he heard it, BY MR. SAUSE: Q Did you hear it? A I aid not hear it. When I turned back this man was crossing the street back to the south side of Pulton Avenu from which he had come. Q You made no effort to pursue him, did you? A Beg pardon. Q You made no effort to pursue him? A I, no, no. THE COURT: Let me get this clear. Tell me again what thi3 nice looking colored man, who you thought to be an Afro reporter, had said the Afro boy had told him. THE WITNESS: Had told him? THE COURT: Yes. THE WITNESS: Yes. THE COURT: What uid he say the boy said? THE WITNESS: That he had seen two men who resembl: the Veney brothers entering thiB house at 2707 Parkwoou Avenue. THE COURT: The first time you stated it you didn't 410 1 •) 8 4 r> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 18 14 15 lfi 17 18 19 20 21 22 28 24 25 669 mention 2 70 7, you said entering a house, THE WITNESS: Well, he — I beg your pardon, Your Honor, he didn’t say 2707, he said Parkwooo Avenue, THE COURT| Weil, where aia the 2707 Parkwood Avenue come irom? THE WITNESSs When he called communications he must have given communications that address because that is the address that they gave me, BY MR. SAUSh: W, Every time somebody mentioned Parkwooo Avenue to you, you inierrea that they were talking about the same place that you were? A well, 1 wasn’t going to come out and say I was going to turn up 2/07 Parkwood Avenue to a stranger who hadn't identified himself. 1 asked him, why are you inquiring? And he tolc. me that he was the man who called communications, W, All right, what happened after that, Lieutenant? A Well, by this time Cruiser Patrol 11 arrived on the scene. Now, from the call sheets of my cars they called out of service at 1;55 A.H. I placed the crew of 603 cur and Sergeant Schaffer in the alley in the rear of 2707 Parkwood Avenue, I placed the crew of 602 car on the even side of Parkwood Avenue, which would have been across the street from the subject house. At this time the officer of 516 car, which is a single-manned car, 411 1 *) :t 4 5 (> 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 1;') l(j 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 670 and I tola him to go up the street where the cruising patrol was parked and he was to remain with that until we return». * I then took the two officers from the cruising patrol, ou« Ox eg oixieex's xxom p01 oar, uuu incidentally, the uthex’ elxlceXe li-om the yOi cax W0i±w to who rear# That was nc my instruction, he went on hxs own* haixiv.-,ck sexgsant die not snow up at thxs time enough he tells me that when I came out of the house he was there• »'ui« hAixRjul i OhJeut to what ne told him, xiih t Kbxl, x’<q Jusw telling j ou, he wasn’ there. liih uOwiii: Ui, well, no doesn’t have to go Into the tit wails, Xiixa ivxiiiuoo i <>>o what xex t me with Lieutenant Schnabel, myself, Lergeunt i-iathias and sergeant McManus of the Worthed stern x>-.strxct, with two officers from cruising Patrol 11, that is the emergency wagon, and myself. The two officers from the emergency wagon had on the protective vests. One of the men in the street, across the stx’oet, had on a protec Ive vest anti one of the officers in the alley in the rear had on a protective v-st, One of the officers from the C.F., cruising patrol, emergency vehicle, hau a rtexsing maohinegun, aub- maohinegun, the otnux officer hau a shotgun. Officer Hyde had a shotgun ana Officer Brown from the — let me ace, wherever 1 •) 2 4 r> (i 7 8 !) 10 11 12 12 14 IT) 1<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 671 he*s from, he had on a protective veat, and he was also carry ing one of these portable lights, how, i walked up and X looked for u doorbell whicty I didn't see. It is possible, X don't know, I haven't been back to the house, maybe the doorbell is one of those kind if your outside storm door is closed it isn't available, X don't jtnow. I didn't 3 e e the doorbell,s ho X took my hand and rapped on the door, X waited several minutes and X received no response and heard no stirring in the house so X borrowed a night stick from Sergeant Mathias ana with the night stick X rappee on the eoor r f / f f t t - . + * 3 dnortly thereafter the door was opened by a color* female and I said to her, police, may we come in? Anu she stepped back from this outside storm door, back to the inside door and I said to her, wnat is your name, please? Anc I thought that sue said her name was Lankford. X asked her if there was anyone there by the name of liarrett and she said, no, there is not. And I said, well, vje have information that the (Jarrett brothers — the Veney brothers are shacked u p here were holed up here, whatever you want to call it, may we come in. While this lady was talking to me she had gradually been stepping backwards so that by this time she was at the living room entrance ana tne living room entrance here to my recollec' tion wouldn't be but maybe three or four feet from that inner door, and she stepped inside to the living room where she had 4 ••‘4 * ? 1 •) :{ 4 5 <; 7 S !) 10 11 12 W 14 15 kp 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 672 a light and I showed her the pictures of the Veney brothers that I had and also another photo of Earl Veney that I had and asked her if 3hu knew them. She said, no, she had never seen them before. And 1 said, 00 we have permission to searefy your house? She nodded her head first and then said yes. Wow, while 1 was talking to this lady it is quite possible that other officers hau passed me. In fact, it must be that they did pass me because when I went upstairs to the second floor, the front room, beoroom, Officer Brown from th4 C.P. was shinlrtg the portable light on a oolored male who was in bed who identified himself. Again, I thought the name was Lankford. He says, hr. Lankford. And as I walked in I hoard him say to this officer, take that light out of ray face, there's a light switch on the wall. And I went to turn it on and someone elsw turned it on. I believe it was Officer Leldhall, 501 car, and, of course, Mr. Lankford wanted to know what was going on and I said, we had information that the Veney brothers were holed up here and I showed him the picture that I had and askea him if he knew them and he said, no, I don't know them, only from seeing their pictures in the papex*. And I said, how long have you been a resident of this house? And he said, seven years, I believe. I said, do you know any of your neighbors? And he said, no, I'm a man who keeps to myself pretty much, X uon't mix with the neighbors. And I 3al[j do you know a man by the name of Garrett? He said, no, I don' A 'i A 1 ■> :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 1 1 12 12 14 IT) 10 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 I Bald, well, would either one of your next-door neighbors on either side of you named Garrett? He said, no, that I knoi they're not, bo X walked back to the haii then and X called to Lieutenant bchnabei, come on, there's nothing here, let's get out of here, Anu aa Lieutenant bchnabei walked up I remember saying to him, this man's got to get up at four o'clock, it's after two now, let's get out of here. It's rough. X was in the post office five years myself and that's one reason I quit because I didn't like getting up. Anyhow, we went downstairs and when we got down stairs the lauy of the house was still in the living room. To my knowledge she had never left the living room, and I went in ana I apologized to her. I said, I'm awful sorry to distur you at this time of the morning, we get these calls, we have this information and we have to make these turn ups, I apolo gized to her, took my men and went out, I went back to my car, got back in my car and as I turned on the motor of the car the radio came on, I heard of a police being shot at at Pennsylvania ard bigin Avenue and that call came over at 2:10 A.M, I couldn't have entered the house before 2:00 A.M., and I was out, walked up the street and in my car at 2:10 so I couldn't have been in the house at the outside eight minutes, how, in that front bedroom there was a young child sleeping and that young child was not awakened, r 673 1 ■) 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 ir> IK 17 18 1!> 20 21 22 22 24 25 67^ I don’t set how the raid could have been conduetet with more circumspection, MR. iiAUhji: Your witness. OHOoo iiAAMXNn'XXON isi MK. NABRi.1; << ulcutenant, wnat time was it when you got your first call from ooromunxc&uxons that gave you this Parkwood. A ine call from communications? <4 li'fO'f rarKwoou. A Yes* Well, the only thing 1 can tell you, counsel is that I know that at 1;15 1 was sitting on a vacant lot on Retreat Street lor tne purpose oi‘ watching Pennsylvania Avenue for any posaiole yoklngs and X Know that I left there at 1 :1 5 , and I would say tnat 1 had driven fox* possibly five minutes or so when I received that original call. Now, I can’t place the exact time but I know that it was at least five minutes after i:15. Q Now, did you give tne address 2707 Parkwood over the police rauio in the police car? A Oh, no,no, no, no, never. You get a call to call the dispatcher, Q So it waB somewhere around, sometime after 1:15 that you first learned of 2707 Parkwood? A Yes, sir, 116 Q And it was sometime ax'ter 1:15 that you entered th< 1 •) :i 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 Itt 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 21 25 675 h o u s e , 3 0 i a c t i m e s h o r t l y a f t e r , * * A I'm quite sure of that, counsel, because the m~n all called out of service at 1:55* It would take me — wall, the distance we had to walk was not too far, maybe five hundr* yards but It would take me a couple minutes to place the men and X remember this •.. Q, I*ra not trying to pin you down to the exact minute A Well, I-'ra going to tell you this, as I turned lnt< Parkwood Avenue the lights on the tavern down the street went out and people started coming out of the side door. Nov/, I don't think that would have happened before 1*55# possibly closer to about 1:58* Q It would have been at least forty five minutes after you first heard of it that you entered the house? A Within forty five minutes? Oh, definitely, I*a» sure* Q Now, were you ordered to make a turn up by a supei lor officer at this house? A Ordered to make a turn up? Q Yes, were you ordered to go, did some superior officer that you answer to jrder you to go there or did you make the decision to go there? A When you receive these calls that the Veney brothe naturally, as a lieutenant in charge of the shift it is rny dut to make the turn up* 1 1 7 1 ■) :{ 4 5 (I 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1<> 17 18 1!» 20 21 22 28 24 25 676 Q You acted on your own responsibility as the roan in charge? A aure, Q Now, os soon ob you got the call you drove by the address to familiarise yourself with the neighborhood? A I answered the call to the operator from Whiteiocl Street, the yOO block of Whiteloek Street from the call box, and then I arove over to Parkwooa Avenue. Actually, frankly, I wasn't sure Just exactly the 2700 block was and I wanted to be sure, Q So you just arove by, you didn’t stop in the blocl A No, sir. Q Did any aurveilance team go into that block? A No, sir. Q Were any of the neighbors or anyone questioned by your men or men working under your direction? A No, sir, not at two o'clock in the morning, Q Now, the dispatcher told you, am I correct, that he had received a call? A Yes, sir. Q ... that the Veney brothers were holed up at this place? A With a naan by the name of Garrett. Q With a man by the name of Garrett? A Yes, he gave me that name, a man by the name of 41 R 1 •) 8 4 .') (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 Ki 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 677 G a r r e t t . Q Nov*, d i d y o u a a c e r t a i n w h e r e t h e d i s p a t c h e r g o t t h i s i n f o r m a t i o n ? A l i o , a i r . (* D id y o u m ake an y a t t e m p t t o f i n d o u t w h e re t h e d i s p a t c h e r - - w ho t h e d i s p a t c h e r g o t t h e c a l l f r o m ? A C o u n s e l , i t i s n ’ t my J o b t o q u e s t i o n t h e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r , e v e n t h o u g h 1 am f a r a n a aw ay s e n i o r a n d s o f o r t h a n u s o o n , a n a w a s t h e n i g h t c o m m a n a c r , n i g h t s h i f t com m an d er o f t h e N o r t h e r n D i s t r i c t 1 am s t i l l m ore o r l e s s u n a e r h i s o r d e r s J u s t l i k e I w o u ld b e u n d e r L i e u t e n a n t C a d d e n 's i n a h o m ic lu e e v e n e n o u g h I ’ m many y e a r s h i s s e n i o r . Q *30 t h e a n s w e r i s i t w a s n 't y o u r J o b t o d o i t a n d y o u d i d n ' t ? A N o , s i r . I t i s my J o b t o c a r r y o u t t h e i n s t r u c t s p e r i o d . THL COURT; I n s t r u c t i o n s f r o m whom? THL W H N j£& S x F rom t n e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r . T n n COURT; W e l l , t h a t i s n o t q u i t e c l e a r t o me e i t h e r . I t h o u g h t y o u s a i d a m om ent a g o t h a t i t w as y o u r d e c i s i o n t o m ake t h e t u r n u p a n d now y o u s a y y o u w e r e c a r r y i n p o u t t h e i n s t r u c t i o n s o f t h e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r , I t h i n k c o u n s e l w a n ts t o k n o w , a n d t h e C o u r t w a n ts t o k n o w , who w as i t t n a c m ade t h e d e c i s i o n t o m ake t h e t u r n up w a s i t y o u o n t h e b a s i s o f t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t h a d b e e n g i v e r 119 678 10 11 12 i:t 14 15 1<> 17 1H 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 y o u , o r w as i t t h e d i s p a t c h e r o r so m e o n e o v e r h im w ho m ade t h e d e c i s i o n o n t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t h a d b e e n g i v e n h im ? THB w r ilic & tt : W e l l , l e t ' s s a y i t t h i s w a y , h a v i n g r e c e i v e d t h e i n f o r m a t i o n f r o m t h e r a d i o d i s p a t c h e r , wno w as d o i n g h i s J o e , i t t h e n b e c a m e ray j o b t o m axe t h e t u r n u p . h o w , t h e o n i y o n e w ho c o u l d s t o p t h a t t u r n u p w o u jd n a v e b e e n t h e n i g h t i n s p e c t o r w ho I w as u n a b l e t o c o n t a c t ; a n d 1 am s u r e h e w o u ld n o t h a v e s t o p p e d i t . BY MR. HABR1T* Q i o u D a se t h a t l a s t s t a t e m e n t o n y o u r g e n e r a l p r o c e u u r e , A T h e g e n e r a l p r o c e u u r e o f t h e d e p a r t m e n t i s t h a t w h e n e v e r y o u a r e t o d o a n y t h i n g o u t o f t h e o r d i n a r y l i k e t h a t , o r t h e r e i s a s e r i o u s c r im e o r a n y t h i n g o u t o f t h e — i n j u r y t o a n o f f i c e r o r s o m e t h in g l i k e t h a t , y o u a r e t o i n f o r m t h e n ig h t i n s p e c t o r , i t i s a c o u r t e s y a s muon a a a n o r d e r . A f t e r a l l , i f h e i s r e s p o n s i b l e f o r t h e d i t y 1 f i g u r e , y o u k n o w , i t i s o n l y a m a t t e r o f c o u r t e s y , Q i o u s a y y o u a r e s u r e h e w o u l d n 't h a v e s t o p p e u i t b e c a u s e y o u w e r e a c t i n g i n a c c o r d a n c e w i t h r e g u l a r p r o c e u u r e ? A T h a t ' s c o r r e c t , s i r . Thai COURT: w h a t a i d y o u u n d e r s t a n d y o u w e r e r e q u i r e d t o d o , w hen a i d y o u u n o e r a t a n a y o u w e r e r e q u i r e u t o mai<|e a t u r n u p , w h e n e v e r w h a t ? THd w ifN iS ii: J u d g e , I am g o in g by tw e n ty f o u r 1 •> 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 111 14 15 Itt 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 21 25 years experience in the police department. You ask me why would I feel X was requii’cd to make that turn up? THE COURT: Yes, THE WITNESS: I would feel I'd been derelict in ray duty if I hadn't mace the turn up, THE COURT: Based on the information you received0 THE WITNESS: I received information that the Veney brothers were there and, as I say, I have been in the department twenty four years and it's never been done any different, BY MR. NABRIT: Q And Just to make sure I understand you, you didn't check on the dispatcher to find out who he had talked to and got this information from? A He Just said he had received a phone call, Q And he didn't say from whom? A Actually', it isn't his place to have to tell me, THE COURT: Well, actually, of course, at the time you went in you had found out who he received it from? MR, NABRIT: Well, maybe not, Your Honor. THE COURT: Well, he said the man who had tola him he was the one who called the dispatcher. THE WITNESS: No, counsel, I can't say that the decision was made because of this latter conversation with the person. I would have had to have gone anyhow, Judge, under the 679 1 •> :{ 4 .’) (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 10 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 680 procedure ol" the department. There is no use trying to hide behinu that. BY MR. NABftIT: k That was after you made your initial aurveiianoe? A Yes. If that man had never come up to rue on the street I would still have gone in. Of course, I had no inten tion of having all those men witn m e. Lieutenant Schnabel anc his men appearing on the scene was a bolt out of the blue to n Of course, he later tola me that he nab come over to contact me to make this turn up on Newington Avenue, which was not made because I knew better on that one. Q Novi, this man who came up to you on the street who you thought was a reporter, is he in the court room todays A Sir, I have been on medical ever since that mornir I have had no chance to contact anyboay, this is my first day back to work. Q I asked you if this man is in the room today, the man who talkea to you on the street? A I wouldn't have the slightest idea. It was two o'clock in the morning ... THE COURT: The Afro has more than one reporter. THE WITNESS: I don't even know he was an Afro reporter. Your Honor, he was Just a clean cut and nice looking fellow and he had such a nice manner with him, clean out and all and I thought, well, the only person who would know some 1 •_) :i 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:i 14 15 1<> 17 18 19 20 21 22 20 24 25 661 thing like this would be an Afro reporter* They are Jusi things that go through your mind* that's all* BY MR. NABR1T: <4 how, the men who went inw this house with you were Lieutenant Bchnabel, Bergeant Mathias, Officer McManus . a Bergeant• (* ....sergeant McManus, Officer hybe and Officer Brown? A A n d T h e l a n . W Theland? a fhclan, f-h-e-l-a-n. Be would have been on one of the cruising patrols. Be and Brown wore on the cruising patrol, and also an officer from my district by the name of Yealdhall, Y-e-a-l-c-n-a-1-1. h how, the man you found upstairs in the bea you thought his name was Lankford or something like that? A Yes • Lid you ask him where he worked? A ho. 1 didn't. <4 Lid he tell you? A ho, he did not. <4 Well, wnen did you find out that he worked at the post office? A He hau it in the paper. 1 nad nothing to go for the last foux* weeks but reau the paper. You can't leave the house on medication. 1 •> 2 4 5 <> 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 1<> 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 THE COURT: How did you know he worked at the pos office when you were there? 682 THE WITHEHo: It said so in the paper. Your Honor,, Tiin COURT: wnen? xiiE WIYE&do: when? I couldn't tell you the exact day. TiiH COURT* viu you know it when you were in the house? THE wxTRESE* ho, sir. Tiiii vdURi; You uiun't know it in the hous~ THE WxYHEHH: Ho, sir, I didn't know it. Tun wJeiii «... that he worked for the post off in inn w xxhxijo; Ho, sir. riiu COURT: x'hea wily uxu you say it was rough geti-ing up ai four o'clock? THE WiY'HEoHi It is rcugn getting up at four o'cl THE COURT* You just testified that you said to h or that you oaia that *0 one of the other officers. THE wxThxwu: 1 sale to him, the nan has to get up at rour o clock, here it xs two, it is rough getting up at four, YHE couRT: Row did you know that? THE WxfWnoa: He told me he had to get up at four o'clock. He said, I might as well stay up now, it's four 2 4 o 'cIock, I nave to get up at four 1 •) 4 <; 7 s !) 10 n 12 is 14 If) 10 17 18 lit 20 21 22 22 24 "25 683 BY MR. NABRIT: Q Now, you showed the pictures you had to the man who was in the beu? A Yes, air. Q *re you quite sure, are you quite positive that you also showee them to the lady? A Yes, sir, I had theta in toy left hand as a matter of fact, and the picture I had, the personal picture picture of Lari Veney was too large to put in my pocket. It was a picture this big. (Indiesting.) Q As she opened the uoor did she have a dog with hex)* A Mo, sir. Q A small one? A Well, if she did it didn't bother me. I paid no attention to it. Q Did an officer go into the rear bedroom on the second floor? A Now, counsel, you told me before you didn't want me to testify to anything I didn't overhear. The only thing I can say is that I aid see Officer Brown coiae from that hall and what I said, there's nothing here, let's go, I wa3 already turning down the steps and Lieutenant Schnabel and somebody else came from that hallway, too, so I'm going to have to assume they were in a room. Ik . 5 MR. NABRIT; further questions 1 •> :i 4 5 <i 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 K i 17 I S 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 684 MR. SAUSE: No further questions. (Witness excused.) THU COURT; Recess until ten minutes after two. (court recessed at IjIO o'clock P.M., and recon vened at 2:1b o'ulocx P.M*) (A discussion was had at the bench off the record , Thereupon, CLARENCE ROY was called to the stand and sworn as a witness and, naving been first uuiy 3worn, was examined and testified as follows: THc. Cî iRHi State your name for the record, please THE WITNESS: Sergeant clarence Roy, Baltimore C11; Police Department, homicide Squad. THE CLERK: Clarence Hoy? THB WITNESSi R-o-y. MR. SAUSE: Your Honor, again, we would like to ask the Court's indulgence, rather than having these officers sit here all day, we sent for some more officers at lunch time and they haven’t arrived. Sergeant Roy pertains to the Allen dale case and we would like to take him out of turn. We woulc also like to indicate at thi3 time that he participated in none of the other cases, in none of the other eight, DIRECT EXAMINATION \ BY MR. SAUSE: Q Sergeant, how long have you been a police officer? 685 \ A Fourteen years. Q And how long have you been a sergeant? A Two and a half years. (« how, directing your attention to December 2oth of last year, about four o'clock or so in the afternoon, die you have occasion to go to 2303 Allendale Street? A Yes, sir, 1 did. Q how, Sergeant, tell His Honor the reason that you went there, wnat you did after you went there, the conversatid you may have heardffrom tne testimony of these other witnesse Just tell us as fully but as concisely as you can? THr. COURT* The other witnesses, you say from the testimony of the other witnesses. Allendale has had only one witness. MR. SAU6L: That is right, sir. I waB trying to direct him to give Your Honor a complete answer, along the Hr} of the other witnesses. \ THR wITNLSS: Hometime around four P.M. on Decembe the 28th, 1904, 1 recelveu information from Lieutenant cadden and Lieutenant Glover that they had received certain inforraatj as to tne Veney brothers being present at the address of 2303 Allendale Street. In company with other members of the squad at that time we proceeded to this area of Allendale and Gwynns Falls Parkway. Of course, X was in tne advance car with Lieutenant Cadden, Sergeant Hughes, Detective De Paula and ns 8* es on 1 ■> 2 4 5 (> 7 s it 10 11 12 12 14 ir» 1(5 17 IS lit 20 21 22 22 24 25 686 Detective Bozak. We went into the area of 2303 Allendale and looked the property over, then we returned to the rest of the felloWs and tolu them Just what the area looked like and how the house could be — entrance could be gained from the rear as to covering the back and the front of the property. When the officers entered, which was several men wearing the armored vests. Lieutenant Cadden there, after proceeuing into this dwelling behind the men inthe armorea I imagine vests, they stayed into the property/aboat four, maybe six minutes, one of the men then proceeded from the first floor to the second floor which appeared to be an apartment separate from the first floor, and 1 think that was Detective De Paula, he hollered aown for a light, a hand light. I, of course, summoned Sergeant button who was standing close by the emer gency vehicle to bring a light. As Sergeant button went up on the porch ... THE COURT: Where were you then? Trid WITNESS: I was standing in the street in fron of this location behina one of our parked automobiles. After Sergeant Sutton went up on the porch with the light X then went into the doorway of this dwelling and Lieutenant Cadden was Chen talking to a young, coloreu female, the child appeared to be about ten, maybe eleven years old. And at this time the only part of the conversation I hearc was that her mother and father were working and they would be in 1 •) :{ 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 1') 1<> 17 18 1!> 20 21 22 28 24 27) 687 sometime after five thirty. With this I feel as though the lieutenant then gave this child a card, one of hiB calling cards with his name imprinted on same. The rest of the men were called from the Interior of the first floor and we left the property. BY MR. SAU3Bt ” ™ • ------ _ Q Now, Sergeant, ao you, of your own knowledge, know whether any other Negro officers, police officers participated \ in any of these searches in connection with these arrest warrants 2 A Yea, sir, Detective Oliver Walker. Of course, there were two,sometimes as many as three Negro members of the emergency unit that would accompany us on the particular turn up. Q There are Negro police officers — His Honor aBked A that the other day and we are trying to develop that there were other Negro polioe officers on the emergency units? A Yes. Q By the emergency units you mean C.?« 11 ... A And 12. Q ... and 12? A Yes, sir. Q Which were the emergency vehicles? \ A Yes, sir, 11 and 12 units. \ Q And as such they received special trainilrig in the 1 •> :t 4 5 (i 7 s !» 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 1(1 17 18 10 20 21 22 28 24 25 688 handling of that special equipment that is contained in those vehicles? A Yes, ft t'ia you or anyone in your presence show any pictur to the occupants of the Allendale Street address? A No, sir, not in my presence and I, myself, didn't,, MR* dAddd: Your witness, CRObS RXAMINATIQN m MR. NABRIf; Q Sergeant, can you aescribe for the Court what thin property looks lixe? A From the interior or the exterior? ft From the outside, A It appeared to be a two story, clapboard dwelling with what appeared to be an attic. I don't know whether it was occupied but it appeared to be an attic up on the, what would be the third floor, ft You didn't enter the house at all? A I stood into the — well, you could say that I was inside, I stood inside the doorway proper that is leading into the .,, ft First floor? A ,,, first floor. ft Now# when you are standing in front of this house on the walk to the street, am I correct that there is a door 1 ■_) 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 l(j 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 25 689 that leads into the i'irst floor right on the front, is that correct? \A xhat is true, h Now, then in the same spot to the left around on tne slue of the porch ia there another aoor there? A foe, there is, tt ana did you Iook into that side door? a No, sir, I diun’t, Q Lad officers enter that siae aoor? A Yes, sir, they ala, (4 ho you know where that side aoor leads? A I assume that it leu upstairs. Q And those doors are some feet apart would you say? a I could approximate the distance being about fif teen feet. The approximate distance? A bure. Q. A be about A Q A Q Now, aid officers go into both doors? Yes, sir, they did. Now, the young colorec child who you estimated to ten years old, you thought? I would say about ten years old, yes. bne was in the first floor door in the front? yes, sir, hla you see any other children in there? \ •) 2 4 5 (i 7 s !) 10 n 12 i:i 14 15 10 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 690 A I think I heard voices of several children* X vioul say more than one person, other than the child I was com;onte\v\ with, was also in the house and I feel as though it was the \bedroom ̂ which was to the right of the eoor as you enter, Q N Did other officers go into that first floor? Tell me what officers went into that house? A Well, at the time, let's put it this way, I wasn't interested in who went into the door as long hb they were police officers. Now, Just who went in the uoor other than Lieutenant Cadden and men wearing armored vests, I coulon't tell you, \ Q But Lieutenant Cadden and the men wearing armored vests, they went into the first floor door? A Yes, sir, \ Q How long did they stay inside? A Well, as I say, they were in about six minutes at the most before I entered, I would say over all it was less than eight minutes, Q And is it true that there were no adults in that first floor? \ A I didn't see any. Q You didn't see any? A NO, 0lr, X didn't, Q Now, did you see or encounter an older child, a teenager seventeen or eighteen returning home while you were 1 •) :i 4 f> (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 1.'! 14 15 1<> 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 691 there at that address? A No, sir, I didn't, Q Or in fact two teenagers? A\ I cildn ‘ t see any, ThUi COURT* Is this 23*̂ 3 Allenuale? MR, NABRIT1 Yes, Your honor. If I might explain, Mrs, Booth testified she lived in the third floor apartment and her sister's family lives in the second floor apartment and some other people lived ,,, Iht. COURT: \There wasn't very much Information to the first floor as I remember, MR, NABRITi Mrs. Booth stayed in her apartment upstairs, THE COURT: I was trying to relate this first floor with anything I had heard and it didn't relate. BY MR. NABRITi Q wnat officers that you know of went into the side door that leaas upstairs? A I do know Detective Oe Paula went into the side door, which I assume led to the second and third floors. Ther after I heard a call for a light. I then also assumed that it was De Paula, Sergeant Sutton was standing nearest tne emer gency vehicle that was parked in front of the location so I hollered for nira to oring a lignt. Alter he proceeded to go into the dwelling itself X then went to where Lieutenant Oadde 1 •> :{ 4 .’) (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 18 14 ir, Ki 17 18 1!) 20 21 •>2 28 24 25 692 wab standing* Q When Lieutenant Cadden and hiB group came out or the first floor, dla they then go to the second ana third floors? A 1 was the first one out of the first floor. I was standing, as I said, right into the doorway itself of the household proper, and I left ana then the men followed me out* Now, whether anyone went to the side door which would lead up stairs, I don’t know* I didn’t pay that much attention to it. Q > And who was in charge of the group, was it Lieutenant Cadden? A Lieutenant Cadden as well as Lieutenant Clover. Q Were both of them there? A Yes, sir, they were the ranking officers from our outfit. Q Wao Lieutenant Glover in the house tliat you saw? A I don't think that he did, I can't say whether he did or didn’t. I don't think that he did. Q Now, what time did you get to this house with the advance car? \ A Sometime after four f.M, The exact time I couldn' tell you. I do know it was still daylight hours when we left there. As I said, we were only there /> afcter of eight minute Q Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought you said that you first went with a survellance crew? 1 •) 4 f> <; 7 S !» 10 11 12 10 14 IT) l(i 17 I S 1!) 20 21 •»2 20 24 20 693 A Yes. Q Then you went to report to the main group and came back again? A \Yea. first How much time elapsed between the/survellance and the actual entry? • A X could approximate, say about twenty minutes. Q About twenty minutes. Bid your surveiiance team, the surveilance group included Bozak, Hughes, Beteotive Be Paula and yourself? A Yea, Biu any of that group conduct any interviews in the neighborhood or make any inquiries about this household? A Q No, sir, we didn’t. You all stayed in your automobile? A Q Yes, sir, we did. Ana do you recall which of the lieutenants, Cadden or Glover, made the decision that you would search this house? A Well, I received the information after Lieutenant adden had received it. Now, whether he received it himself or from someone else, x do not know but he was njy commanding officer at that time ana X followed orders. Q You did not decide to do it yourself, to make the search? A No, sir. No, he gave me enough reason to go along \\ 1 2 :{ 4 ;» (i 7 8 «) 10 11 12 12 14 15 i<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 694 with it bo ̂ therefore, I carries out who order «> Q Did you receive any information concerning the Veney brothers ana this household from anyone else other than your fellow police officers? h i, lyoeUi uian't, no, sir. <* *nu you are assignea to homicide? v a Yea, sir, I am. <4 in coiiauccing homicide investigations in the past in connection with other crimes or other arrests, have you ever hau occasion to have the emergency unit accompany you to a place? h I don't think I have ever personally, no. MR- NAIiRiJ.* ho further questions. MR. BAULc.: No questions. Thank you. Sergeant. fitness excused.) MR. MURPHY* Your Honor, the Court expressed an interest in the emergency run sheets, c.P. 11 and C.P. 12, and we have them, THB COURT* Do you want to come up here then and talk it out. (Discussion at the bench off the recorc.) MR. BAUBL: Somewhat reluctantly we will continue with Lieutenant Cadden out of turn. Yhn COURT* Do you have any other witnesses coming in today? 1 •» 2 4 5 <i 7 S f) 10 11 12 12 14 ir> l(i 17 18 10 20 21 •>•> 22 24 22 695 MR. SAUSE: Two others. \ MR. MURPHYi Sergeant McManus, who was th< Sujer- \ visor of the emergency unit and also the taxi oab driver who\\was here the other day hut we didn't reach him and is being alerted now and should here. We are going a little faster than we thought we would, I think it presents a better plctur^ to take them in propel- order. THE COURT: if you are going to finish within the time you suggested I don't mind putting in this time reading plaintiff's briefs, I've got %o read them sometime and I mighf; as well sit here and read them. Maybe you ought to reau them, too, MR, MURPHY: If we could dp that, that would be much more to our liking, THE COURT: All right. (Recess.) THE COURT: Are you ready to call a witness? MR. MURPHY: Yes, Your Honor. We will call Mr. Albert Gooddale, T h e r e u p o n , ______ •------ -------- --- ALBERT GOODDALE was called to the stand and sworn as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: THE CLERK: State your name for the record? THE WITNESS: Albert Gooddale. i 4"1/ b 696 1 ! DIRECT EXAMINATION •) BY MR. MURPHY* :t A Q Mr* Gooauale, what is your a c c i r e s s , sir? • A 4/39 Amberly Avenue. f> Q How old are you? (i A I am fifty six. 7 Q Aro you a licensed taxi cab driver in Baltimore s City? !) A Yes, sir. 10 Q How long have you been driving a taxi cab? 11 A Fifteen years. 12 Q Mr. Gooddale, I direct your attention to January • 1965> around twelve noon, did you have occasion to pick up 14 two ladies in front of the Veterans Administration Building 15 in downtown Baltimore? l(i A Yes, sir. 17 ^ What was that location? IS A That was at St. Paul and Fayette Streets. 19 Q Now, would you look around this court room and see 20 if you see either of the ladies that you picked up that day? 21 A Yes, this lady on the end here. • Q Wearing the red .,, 22 A Yes. 24 MR. MURPHY 1 What is your name, m s ‘am? 25 MRS, SNOWDEN* Mrs. Snowden, 1 •) 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:t 14 IT) ltt 17 18 lit 20 21 22 20 24 25 697 MR. MURPHYs What is that? MRS. SNOWDKN: S-n-o-w-d-e-n. BY MR. MURPHY: Q Do you see any other, Mr. Goodaale? A I’m not sure. Q What happened, Mr. Gooddale, after you picked up the two ladies? would you relate what happened in your cab? A Well, as a rule I don’t listen to conversations and X Just overheard an argument between the two ladies and one said to the other ... Q before you tell me what one said, where were you taking these ladles, the address? A The first address was 1900 block of Druid Hill Avenue. Q What was the other address? A 2000 block of North Monroe. Q Now, when you cay, you identify one lady as speak ing to the other would you refer to them as the Druid Hill Avenue lady ... A Yes. Q, ... or the North Monroe Avenue lady? A Yes, Q Who said what to whom? A It was some kind of an argument about money that they came down to get, money-to try to get a pension increased 4Jc8 1 • ) 4 r> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 17) 1() 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 20 24 25 698 or something to that effect, and one lady, the mother of the son, she was arguing with her and told her that she didn’t know how to take care of business or anything like that and they got to arguing ana the one, this lady, the Druid Hill Avenue lady bold her that she aidn’t have sense enough to get the Increase of what they were trying to get, the pension in creased. So the other lady told her, she said, I wouldn’t tell you that. She called her a fool, I think. Yes, she said; you’re a fool, you don't know how bo take care of business or something to that effect. And the other lacy told her, I wouldn't call you a fool. And she said, well, you’re like youi son, she said, he’s a fool, when he gets full of liquor he shoots a police, and that’s all I heard. Q And were they whispering in the cab, Mr. Gooddale, the ladies? A Pardon. Q I cay, were they whispering? A They wasn’t whispering. The other lady told her to shut her mouth, she 3aid. Q Now, you said the other lady told her to shut her mouth, who said that? A The mother of the 3on. Q And you were taking the mother of the son to the Monroe Street address, is that correct? A That was on the way to the 1900 block of Druid HilL i ? p 699 1 Avenue. •) Q Which fare hid you let out first? A m is laay her on the end. 4 4 m e .Druid hill Avenue fare? f> ii m e î ruiu niil Avenue, (i * fnen you proceeaed to Monroe Street? 7 a l e a . s Q how, after you had let out tne Monroe Street lady !) what did you then do, 11’ anything? 10 A x atopped the first police cruiser that I saw and 11 told them about it. 12 V A n d now long after you let the ... 12 A 1 waa tninking about the police that got shot on 14 the 2200 blocK of North Monroe Street and I thought that might 15 be the case of it. I didn’t know. 10 MR, NABRIT: Move to strike what the witness was 17 thinking about, Your Honor. IS _______ THE COURT* Strike it out. 10 BY MR. MURPHY: 20 Q Mr. Gooddale, may I ask you, how long was it after 21 you left the Monroe Street fare out that you stopped a polloe •_w cruiser? 25 A Within fifteen minutes. 24 Q Xs that the first police cruiser you saw? 25 A Yes, sir. 4* O 10 11 12 i:l 14 ir> l<> 17 18 1!) ■20 21 22 20 24 Q A <4 officers? What did you then do when you Btopped the cruiser I told them about it. Just what I did heri, iuu you mention the Veney brothers to the police a KO| sir. xou uiun't mention any specif ic case? A ho, s x r . Q how, alter you were talning to the police officers in the police cruiser .•. A The first thing i thougnc of was this police that was shot in tut cap in the IciiOO block of North Monroe street, i aidn't nave the Venoy brothers even in my mind* bust specific inoleant, you say a police officer was shot in tout area, what Knowledge uo you have of that incident? A only wnat i reae in the paper, W what was that? m ‘fiUit a police was snot, 1 tniruc it was in his cap iie was then knocKou uown in tne time he got shot in the cap. Q ho you know where ho was ahot? i tnink xt was tne dZlOO Clock of North Monroe otre About how far waa onat from ... iiu- todiVl: mlhat was chat, a£Q0 block oi what? Tibi wi-uiobSi North Monroe street. That was ceve 700 it days before this incident. \ 3 i 'St, rnl 701 10 n 12 12 14 15 1<> 17 18 10 20 21 22 28 24 BY MR. MURPHYt Q How many blocks away was that from the house or th^ Monroe Street fare? A About two blocks, 1 think. Q After stopping the police cruiser, what happened after that? You told the police officers about this conversa tion that you heard in the cab, then what happened? Did you go with the police anywhere? A I also told another police, Q Tolu another what? A Told another policeman. Q You mean you stopped one cruiser and had a convers^ tion with them and then btopped another? A YeB, air. Q What did you tell the second group of police officers? A The same story that I told them. Q Wny did you do that, Mr. Qooddale, after stopping one police cruiser, why did you tell the same story twice? A Well, I wanted to be sure that — I guess I was a little over anxious to solve some of this crime that's going on. Q Weil, did you subsequently go to the police depart ment with any police officers? A pardon me, sir. Q X say, did you subsequently go to the police head- A ft 1 ■> 4 r> (> 7 S !t 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 1 (i 17 18 1!» 20 21 ->2 22 24 27 702 quarters with any of the officers that you stopped that day? A I went out to the Northwestern later in the day, Q At your own instance or at the request of the polio A At tne request of the police. Q Who uiu you talk to there? A 1 uon't remember the officer1a name, Q ho you remember what time it was? A 1 uon‘t recall hie name, Q ho you remen&er what time it was, Mr. Goodaale? A It was just about quarter of three. Q Anu did the police officers there question your further concerning, this incident? A Nothing more than, they took down what I told them., the secretary diu, Q, hla you sign a statement? A Yes, sir. Q Mr. Gooucale, aid you see either of the ladie3 that you picked up at the police station that same day? A Yes, sir. Q which of the ladies did you see, both of them or one? A I saw both of them, U Lid you identify them for the police that day? A Well, no, sir. X told the police they were out th« the ladies were out there. I told him that I saw them out in 703 1 hall. ‘> Q Did you apeak to them? 2 A Or in the corridor, rather.• 4 Q Die* you apeak to them at the station, hr. Good dale f) A No. (i Q Mr, Qowdoale, are you related to anybody in the 7 police department? s A No, nobody, sir. !) Q had you ever seen either of the ladies that you 10 picked up that aay before? 11 A No, sir. i IA 12 Q Did you know either of them before? • 12 A Wo, sir. 14 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. 15 Ntou may examine. hi CROSS EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. NABRIT: 18 Q for, Gooduale, what time was it when you picked up 1!) the two ladies? 2 0 A I would say it was around about one o’clock. 21 Q Around about one o'clock? • 22 A Yes, May be a little after, 1 don’t recall exactly 22 what tlioc it was, -N 24 Q And where did you drive first? 25 A Peruon. X 704 1 q Where did you drive first? *> A To the 1900 block 01 Druid Hill, Q \ Anti how long did it take you to get there? • A Well, X didn't time mysoli. f> Q Well, auoutv (i A X1g say about twenty minutes, 1 guess. 7 Q And rrom there to the Monroe Street address, how S long did it take? !t A fifteen wore minutes, I would say. About fifteen 10 \ minutes, \ 11 TifE COURT: HOw long? 12 THE wiTNRSS: About XITteen minutes,\ • THE COURT: Fifteen minutes to go from the 1900 block of Druid\ 14 Hill Avenue to the 2000 block of Monroe? 15 THE WXTMKSS! Well, ten or fifteen. 1(5 BY MR, NABRIT* 17 Q Do you remember how much the fare was? 18 A $1.35# I believe, $1 ,3 0. 10 Q I can't hear you. \ 20 A I think it was $1.30 or $1.35. I don’t remember. 21 s, Did you get a tip? • A Yes, air. 28 Q How much? 24 A X don’t recall. 25 Q Where did you encounter the first police cruiser, 705 i (> < ,s !) 10 11 12 10 14 To 1« 17 IS 10 20 21 20 24 25 where did you see the first police cruiser? \ A At North Avenue and Longwood, I believe it was, Q And how many officers were in the car? A \ One officer, and one officer was inside the store and he came back while I waa there, Q Which one of them did you talk to? A I don’t even know their names, Q Did you tell what you heard to one or both of them? A Juss the one, I had finished when the other officsr had returned, Q Now, can you remember, were you excited or — when you were talking to them? A No, not excited, Q Can you remember what you told the police? A Not woi'd for word. I Just told them about picking up the two ladies and the conversation and where I took them to, Q Tell me all you can remember about what you told the police? A I just told them that I might have some help, a load for some of the crime or of a policeman getting shot in the 2200 block of Monroe Street. Q And what else did you tell them? A That was all, Q Did you tell him about the conversation i,n the cab? 1 •) 4 5 <) 7 S 9 10 11 12 l.'i 14 15 10 17 IS 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 706 Q \ \ Yc b . What did you tell him about the conversation? Well, X told him the two ladles were arguing and they seemed to be In a hot argument and one called tiu other a fool, that she didn't know how to take care of business or she couldn't have got any increase if it hadn't been for her if she hadn't have went with her, and the other one told her, she Bald, you shouldn't call me a fool, I wouldn't call you that. So she said, also, that son of yours is a fool Q Which one said that? A The lady, Mrs,, on the end. Q The one you took to Druid Hill? A Pardon me. \ Q A Q A a police. The one you took to Druid Hill? Yes, air. What did she say? She said, you son gets full of liquor and he shooti Q Now, were you paying attention to your driving when you were driving along? \ A Oh, yes, Q Did you turn your head around and look in the back seat? A No, sir. Q How could you tell which one said what? 1 • > 4 4 ') (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 14 14 1.7 IK 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 707 \ A 1 know It was this lady that said it. Well, you know now that you were mistaken? THE COURT: What does that question mean, do you know now that you were mistaken, I don’t understand that. MR. NABRIT: In what you heard. THE COURT: What is that? MR. NABRIT: In what he heard. MR. MURPHY: I object to It. THE COURT: 1 don’t understand It. I wouldn't kno how to answer it if I were a witness. You are asking If he knows now that he was mistaken in what he heard. If that is the question, g o you know now that you were mistaken in what you heard? THE WITNESS: No, I am not mistaken. BY MR. NABRIT: Q About what time was it you first saw the first police cruiser? A Weil, I didn't have a watch, I don't recall Just what time it was. It was around — it was after one o'clock. I would say it was 1:45 whenever I stopped the first police. Q How much later was it you saw the second police cruiser. \ A Well, the second police, it was — i\was at Balti more and Frankllntown. \ Q How much later was that after you talked to the 1 •) :t 4 .”) (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 IT) 111 17 18 1!» 20 21 22 22 24 25 708 I would say about fifteen minute& „ About what time would that make it? About two o'clock. About two o'clock, and what ala you tell that \ police officer? \ I told him the same thing jl tola the other police, \ A Q And in exactly the came words? A Maybe not the very same words but I tola him what '• \ I heard, what I recallea hearing. Q Did you tell him that you had already told it to another policeman? V A Pardon. Q Did you tell the second policeman that you had already seen another policeman fifteen minutes before? A No. And reported the same conversation? No, I didn't tell him. You didn't tell the seconu poiicec: ? No. r Why not? MR• MURPHY: Your Honor ,«. THE COURTs You openeu the door, he can go through Q A Q A Q it. THK WITNESS: I don't know why I didn't, 1 didn't 1 •> :t 4 r> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 ir» 10 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 2f) 709 tell him. I'm not sure. I'm sure I didn't tell him.\ fV BY MR, NABRITt Q Do you know who-was the second police cruiser one V officer or two? A Two, Q Did you tell it to Doth of them or one? A Yes. Q Both of them? A Both of them. Q What did they do after you told them this? A They thanked me and X got in the cab and drove \away. Q have you ever been arrested, sir, or been in trouble with the lav;? A No, sir. MR, MURPHf* I object. THE COURT* Wait a minute. If he's been convicted "4 of an infamous crime it would affect his credibility. I suppose that is the purpose you are asking it. All right, objection overruled* Have you ever bee convicted of a crime other than a traffic offense or something like that, have you ever been convicted of a crime? THE WITNESS: No crime, no, sir. BY MR. NABRITj Q Have you ever been hospitalized for any mental ill; 710 10 n 12 i:l 14 15 1« 17 I S 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 A No, sir. Q How good is your hearing? Have you ever had it by a doctor? A \ Hearing is ali right. When lt» the last time you had it tested? Every time I have my license renewed, chauffer’s \ \ \ Did you tell any newspapers about this? Ho. \ THE COURT: Has the testimony of Mrs. Shepherd been written up? MR. WURJPKYi \Not written up that X know of. THE COURT; 1 was looking at my notes of her testi mony and I think we nac better have just one or two excerpt3 « It doesn’t have to be done right now. I am going to ask Mr. Owens to write up a couple bits of the testimony to be sure that my notes are correct. MR. NABRITt Coula I have a moment, Your Honor? THE COURT* Any more questions? MR. NABRIT; Yes, sir, one or two. THE COURT* All right, \ ME. NABRIT* May I proceed? \ THE COURT* Yes. BY MR. NABRIT; Q Am I correct in understanding you that\ll you knew •) :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 l.'l 14 15 1(5 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 711 about this alleged crime that occurred on Monroe Street is what you read in the newspapers, is that right? A That's right. \Q You had no personal knowledge about any crime, about what happened? A That's right. Q And all — so that the only knowledge or informa tion you had at all was what you thought you heard in the taxi cab, is that correct? A That is what X did hear. 0 That iB the only thing you knew about it? \ A YeB, air, Q Is that correct?\ *• A That's right. Q Had you seen the reward offers in the newspapers for information? THE COURT* For what? MR. NAHRIT* Reward offers for information leading to the apprehension, for information leading to ... THE COURT: Apprehension of what? Is there any reward? Your question assumes that there was a reward offered for Oreenmount or Monroe Street. There wasn't any reward offer I've heard of about Monroe Street. If you offer to prove there was, of course, you may ask the question. THE WITNESS: The Veney brothers wasn't even men- 1 ■> :t 4 5 i; 7 s !) 10 11 12 12 14 1') 10 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 712 f Cloned.\ BY MR. NABRIT; Q Wasn’t even mentionea where, sir? You said the Veney brothers weren't mentioned, where? A In the cab at all. Thji COURT: What I am asking you, is there a reward for the \rrest of the Veney brothers? MR, nX.BRIT: May it please the Court, the initial news accounts of this incident on Monroe Street said that the Veney brothers were suspected in that crime as well. MR. MURPHYl I object to his testifying. Every body is a suspect when somebody shoots a police officer and I object to that strenuously, Your Honor. MR. KABRIT: I will offer the clippings. ATHE COURT: It is not evidence and it can be stricken as evidence, but if you have any evidence. MR. NAERIT: I will be sworn and testify, THE COURT: The question I have is, what the rewar was for and this is the first time I have heard of the Monroe Street shooting, the first time I have heard anything in an attempt to connect it with the Veney brothers, the first time I have heard that thtre v.’as any reward that night have anythin to do with Monroe Street and before this question is askea I \ have got to know what it is clearly that you are asking. MR. NABRIT: Your Honor, I don’t know what further 1 ■) .4 4 f> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:i 14 lo Hi 17 IS 1!) 20 21 •>•) 20 24 2') 713 explanation I can make. THE COURT* Well, ask him. Maybe he will under stand better than I do if you are asking the questions but \ the question was very uncertain to me and I don’t know what it would mean to him the way you put it; but ask him any question you think is proper and the conversation we have had may clarify it for him. V Go ahead. BY MR. NABRIT: Q Were you aware that the newspapers had offered — V a newspaper had offered a reward for Information leading to the capture of the Veney brothers? \ A Yes, sir. Q And you knew that before? A I knew that. That was the newspapers that offered the reward, though, wasn't it? Q Yes. \ Do you read the News American? A Q A Q A Yes, both papers. Both papers? Yes, sir. Regularly? Yes, sir, \ MR, NABRIT* Your Honor, I still haven’t understoo< Your Honor’s ruling on the evidence matter this morning, T*hetl 1 • ) :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 i<; 17 IS 1!) 20 21 •>•) 22 24 25 714 >r not if I ask to see a copy of the statement this witness gave to the police, which X understand him to say was taken down by a secretary, whether by asking to see that I am thereto bound ••• \V THE COURT: No, you are not because that is part of what you wqre entitled to get a summary of, at any rate, from the Junior .bar, that is the detail. Anything that deals with the information the police have leading to the raise that you have put on, and certainly leading to the information the police had with respect to this. Do you have anything, any written report from him7 MR, MURPHY ou mean from this witness, Your Honor? \ THE COURT: Yes. avMR. MURPHY: We have a statement, yes, sir. THE COURT: Is there any reason tfwt shouldn't be offered? MR. MURPHY: Well, 1*11 be delighted to offer that Your Honor, but X think it will get in Reaper into the rest of the police report. MR. NABRITt I wouldn’t ask it to be offered, I ask for an opportunity to examine it. \ THE COURT: The question is, my feeling about it is this, that I wanted counsel for the plaintiffs to have lnfob mation as to what the police had offered to him or made 3vail- 1 •) :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 1.4 14 IT) l(i 17 IS 10 20 21 22 24 24 25 715 able to him pursuant to the subpoena the information the polio had with respect to the patricular eight items they have here as to what information the police had before they authorised \ their searches. \ W also saiu they ooulu have it generally, Now, these are the ones that are being pursued and if this man made a report to the p o l i c e in *,he oruinary course of business and not a report which was obtained as part of your work product in preparation lor this case, X think it should be offered in evidence, Anu you can show it to the plaintiff and he can use it on cross examination# Then if he’s opened the door and whether it makes it automatically admissible because he asKca for it, X think it might be admissible as a report raaue in the ordinary course of business. This is oruinary course of police business it seems to me rather tnan any preparation. I don't know whether the statement was maau before the ,,, MR. WABRIT: He testified it was. THK COURT: It was Just after they entered the house. Mh» WAHRITi He testified that it was when he was later — well, let*'s clear it up now. BY MR. NABRIT: <4 L>iu you sign a statement down at the police statio A That’s right. 1 ■) 2 4 5 <; 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 10 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 716 Q Where was this? A At the Northwestern. Q\ About what time was that? A \ That vjas about three o'clock, maybe a little after <4 This was after ... \ THE COURT* It was after the entry and while the two women were at the police station, is that right? THE WI^NEBB* That's right. THE COURT* He said he saw them in the station whe he was there, MR. NABRIT* I'd like to see it. THE COURT* If this contains any' leaas, I think that part should be blocked out, anything that doesn't deal with this particular matter ought to be blocked out in some way but counsel may see it with that understanding. (A document was presented to Mr. Nabrit.) KR. NABRIT* No further questions, REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MURPHYs Q Mr. Gooduale, I show you a copy of the statement purportedly signed by you and ask you if you can identify that A Yes, sir. MR, MURPHY: Your Honor, I would like to introduce it as a Defenuant's Exhibit, the statement of Albert O o o d d a l e . THE CLERK* Defendant'3 Exhibit No. 3 marked in 1 2 :i 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 ir> id 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 717 \videncc, V \ (The statement or Albert Oooddale was marked in evidenc as &6ienuant's Exhibit No., 3.) \ MR, huujtTa j No i urtati questions, rhank you very ruaca, Mr* Gooduale, lid- tOORTi wait a minute. Now that it is in ^ou may want to eroita examine, hay 1 take a quick look at it, then you can have i ail right. \RECRQSE EXAMINATION BY MR, NABRXT: \ Q Hr, Goocduid, was this statement typed up while 1 \ you were there in the police station? V A xes, sir, \ Q Ana it nas a time on it, was that time right then, ao you know? I uon’t «...it k, A Bpeak louder so everybody can hear you, X oian’C have a watch ana I aon’t know exactly. I dlun’t see the time. It was around about tnat time, \ Q Tell me one more time what you recall t.iis lady from Druid Hill Avenue said to the otheV one about the son being a fool and what followed that? A then he was drunk, when he a carted drinking liquor Q Now, tell to me as best you can remember what you 718 1 heard her say? •) MR. MURPHY: Your Honor, I object, that is very :( repetitious, This is about the fourth time around. 4 MR. NABRIT: I want to see what the wintess's f) present recollection is. (> MR. MURPHY: You asked him that five minutes ago. 7 THE COURT: I will overrule the objection. So far s it doesn’t strengthen his testimony, Hr, Murphy. But I think <) he is entitled to try once more. 10 THE WITNESS: What'* the question. 11 THE COURT: What you heard the woman say, the one 12 back there in the second row, what you heard her say about 12 the other woman’s son. 14 THE WITNESS: She said he was a fool when he drink\ s 15 liquor, that he shot a police. 1« MR. NABRIT: Your witness, 17 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much, Mr. Gooddale. \ I S THE COURT: You may be excused, \ \ 11) (witness excused.) \ 2 0 Thereupon, 21 JAMES J. CADUEN, was called to the stand as a wit- 22 ness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and test! 22 fied as follows: 24 THE CLERK: State your name for the record? 25 THE WITNESS: James J, Cadden, C-a-d-d~e~n, Lieute 1- 425 1 •> 4 r> (i 7 S 10 11 12 12 14 1.7 10 17 I S 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 ant, Homicide Squad, Baltimore City Police Department, DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SAUSL; Q Lxeutenant, how long have you been a member of the police force? A Sixteen years this forthcoming April, sir, <4 ana how long have you been a lieutenant? A A little over a year, sir. 719 1 3 6 Now, Lieutenant ... THE COURT: Just a moment. 1 think you had better have some ground rules, I gather the Lieutenant will be on longer than the rest of the oay, that you hadn't intended to \\put him on tooay,\ \ MR, SiiUoLj That is right, sir,\ THE COURT; The usual rule that once you put a \ witness on you can't talk to him while he is on the stand, oer« \ tainly not talk to m m wnile he,is unuer croBs examination. It seem3 to me that the fair — I suggest this, that you ask him about sucn matters that you are willing to ask him about \ without talking about them afterwards ana .that you not talk to him about any matters that he testified to today; but if you want to go over any matters tnat ne hasn't covered today, that the rule won't aply to conversations about other raatters to night since he obviously is one of the men who has co be inter viewed about developing many of these matters. 1 •> :i 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 1M 14 15 l(i 17 18 lit 20 21 22 2:5 24 25 720 MR. SAUSKi We have to discuss with him among other things, Your Honor, the getting of witnesses and so fort THE COURT t That la all right, you may talk to hin but you may not talk to him About anything you examine him about today and when you want to come to a break on that, let me know. We will cover as much as we can, MR. SAUSKt Thank you. BY MR. SAUS!': Q Lieutenant, you are familiar with the warrants of arre3t which were issued for two persons in connection with certain incidents arising on Oreenmount Avenue, I think it wai the 2000 block, on Christmas Eve of last year, is that correct A 7. am, rir. I swore out the warrants. 0 And Lieutenant, you are a member of the homicide squad, you indicated? A That is correct. Q And as such this investigation came under your supervision, in that correct? A Thst i* right. Q Now, ther^ is a captain of the homicide squad who is over you, is that correct? A That is right, sir. Q And th>-n, of course, an inspector who 13 generally the supervising authority over him? A night. 1 ■> 4 f> (i 7 S <> 10 11 12 i:l 14 ir> 1<> 17 18 1!1 20 21 22 20 24 20 721 Now, how many lieutenants are there in the horalcic squad? A Vivo, sir,\V \ Q You ano? A Lieutenant Glover anc myself, Q Lciutennnt Glover testified the other clay that yoii and he doth participated in the investigations surrounding the two warrants ? A ‘inat xs correct, sir* Q Now, would you tell His Honor the- manner of oper ation, the method of operation and without getting into any specific cases, unless you deem it necessary by way of illustrs tion at this time, how you and Lieutenant Glover proceeded witi this investigation? A Yes, sir. Well, an Christmas five evening about 9; 45 or ten o'clock I responded to the scene on Greenmount Avenue and from there to the Saint Joseph's Hospital, Prom Saint Joseph's Hospital I went to the Northern District and commenced the investigation. \ THE COURT: I think this one factor isn't quite clear, this was a robbery of a liquor 3torc? \ MR* SAUSE: Yes, Your Honor* THE COURT; And the lieutenant who wa3 shot, shot \ during the robbery or close to the place of the perpetrators \\ 1 •) 4 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1<> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 24 21 25 722 or\ the incident? \ MR. SAUSE: If Your Honor please, I thought t.iat we had stipulated for the purposes of this case that one para graph of the answer recitea those facts. THE COURT: All right, that is fine. I just wasn quite sure. \ MR. HAUSE: And I think that is paragraph 10-A on page 4 of the answer. Is that the allegation there? THE COURT: It just says during the course of it, that is all. MR, HAUHE: By one or more of the perpetrators of said armed roobery. THE COURT: All right, BY MR. SAUHxi: Q And there was a police lieutenant who was shot, going back to His Honor's question? A Yes, that is correct. Q And was he a uniformed officer? A He was, sir. Q Now, proceed. You went to St. Joseph's Hospital, then what happened? A inen, of course, I went to the Northern District t< continue the Investigation. \ At the Northern District I learned that a suspect \\\was in custody. 723 !) 10 11 12 18 14 15 1(1 17 18 19 20 21 22 28 24 THE COURT: The Northern you Bay? \ THE WITNESS: Wort hem, yes, Fir. \ \ BY MR. SAUSE* q is urounmount in the Nor t no it* district?\ - a ica, i»i,r. it woo soiaewnau unusual tncre, thu cria(te was ooramitteu in tnu Northern district but a Northeastern bistriot lieutenant was snot. ijib dOUnr: note too line run aovrn the tnidaie of Oreenmount? I'tiu UXiuNiXiO; .Yes, sir. THE COURT: But lit was in the Northern district? iiU> wii'unoB: That, is correct. lie responses to the alarm. \ BY MR • os dox. j \ Vi ail right, wouio you proceed? v\A ox course, x eommenoeu interrogation ox‘ the suspect ■ xn question ana, ox course, we iearneu nothing at that point Y . While x was at the Nortncrn instructing officers V pursuing whia investigation lieutenant GiovA$- cailec from nome That was aro-nU eleven, eleven Cwxrty, He asked if X needed any help ano ne would summon some additional men\anu, of cour^ej i felt couxu use aii tne help available. And he^,arrived V snortly tnux'eaiter, within Appro ly .dirty oi- irety minuses. Ox ooux ue, otnar officers wno arrived were the detoctlyVa robbery uquau anu iiomxcide detectives to continue this invest!25 1 •> 8 4 r> (i 7 s !) 10 11 12 18 14 IT) 1(1 17 IS 19 20 21 22 28 24 25 724 Then Lieutenant Glover and I, Sergeant Hughes and Detective Conroy continued our interrogation of the suspect ii custody. Through this interrogation we learned the identity of his accomplices in tnia matter. Of course, certain other information was obtained and put on paper. \ The along about three A.M. Lieutenant Glover took a detail of men with him. As I recall it was Detective Bozak; Detective De faula, some other officers I don't recall offhanc He suggested to me that he go over into Northeast Baltimore around the vicinity of Kirk Avenue, the residence of the Venej who this suspect had named as his accomplices, and search for them at their sisters' and relatives' homes. lie had been gone about an hour, I believe, when a Northern District officer came into the interrogation room where I was typing up with Detective Conroy crime lab sheets \ of evidence and so forth when I was informed that a policeman had been shot. This was about four thirty, I imagine. \ Q Now, when you say -- just stop there for a moment when you say searching homes, were they searching for evidence or persons or for what? A Bor persons and evidence, sir, Q all right, go ahead. A Along about four thirty ... THE COURT: When was this? 138 1 • > :$ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 ir> l(i 17 18 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 725 MR. SAUSE: Thl3 was early Christmas morning. THE WITNESS: I'm giving you a chronological . THE COURT: You say searching Tor evidence? MR. SAUE&: Searcning Tor suspects ana evidence, THE WITNESS: There was an amount oT money taken in the robbery ana, oT uoux'Be, weapons were utilized, natural BY MR. SAUSE: Q Well, wnat was the primary purpose oT the search? A Tor the suspects. Q This was prior to the time that any police ofTicex had been shot and killed? A That is correct, sir. THE COURT: Weil, oT course, among the things that they might be looking Tor were the fruits oT the robbery? THE WITNESS: That is x*ight, that is what I testi- Tied. THE COURT: That includes the Truits and the weapo THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I think it was two thouse BY MR. SAUSE: Q You mentioned a moment ago the money? A Yes, sir, the money and the weapons. Q Bid this involve a sizeable amount oT money? A Yes, sir, over two thousand aB I recall, sir. Now, you indicated that-you had Just started~~to~£ that you heard something over the police radio while you were 1 2 :t 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i:l 14 15 l(i 17 IS 1!) 20 21 22 24 24 25 726 typing up these reports? A No, sir, X -was in the Interrogation room and sever officers came into the interrogation room of the Northern District ana aovisou detective Conroy and I that a policeman had Just been shot In the Northeastern District and I recall he stated Kennedy Avenue. Do we were somewhat shocked with this information and being aware, of course, that Lieutenant Clover was over in that area with this turn up party, We immediately proceeaeu over there and enroute, of course, we heard, the police dispatcher directing cars to Clifton Park, that a police officer had been shot and so forth and we arrived at the &jQQ block of Kennedy Avenue. I met Lieutenant Eaton there of the Northeastern District and he realted ccrtarn information to me tnat Sergeant Jack Cooper liua been shot, that Cooper had been with Lieutenant alover and they had been turning up homes\and they had Just left the turn up route. V Well, of course, that day, the remainder of the morning we searched the City College'grounds, the back yards ana calls were coming over the radio that prowlers were in the various yards, Carswell Street, Montpelier Street, all the nearby streets. So latex1 on in the morning, it wad negative, of course, we went to the various Lomas, relatives\of the wanted subjects. Then we returned to the Northeastern District, I'd \ \ 1 •> :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 1.4 14 15 K i 17 18 10 20 21 22 24 24 25 727 say about seven A.M., that was Christmas morning. At the Northeastern Listriot was Commissioner Schmidt, as X recall, with Captain Mayer and Inspector German was there, we briefed him as -a trio events, what transpired was negative, our search fox* the Veneys and weapons or evidenc and, or codj.se, we had several girls in there that were friendV of the VeneyXanu at that point we organized. The Conmissione thought that we should organize a special group because of the characters we werh dealing with, *4 Weil, nOw would you elaborate on that, first of a2 \ a special group, indicate what the special group was to be? THL COURT* \Weii, is that any different from what the other lieutenant said*N I don't think there is any need tc repeat that, \ MR. CaUuhx All right. Tifli COURT* And there is an admission or stipulatl with respect to the Gangers and the nature of the crime andX character and so forth. BY MR. SAUShj Q Well, you heard Lieutenant Glover's testimony? A I did, sir. 0 And with regard to the special group, do you wish to add anything to what he said? A The commissioner emphasized safety tb the public as well as the officers; ho emphasized courtesy arid tact would \ 1 •) 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 10 17 1H 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 728 e m p l o y e d , employed when we conducted or pursued any informatl as to hom&js and so forth. Q Well, was the purpose of this special group also to coordinate the efforts of the ... A Ye$, sir, to operate out of the Northeastern District Q A Q Out of the Northeastern District? That’s right. Ordinarily where would you operate from, the lieutenants operate from? A Out of the homicide office, Q Which is at cdjitral? \ A Central Police Station, yes, sir. Q At Fayette Street? A Yes, sir, Q Now, after this unit was set up describe to His' \ Honor in general, if possible, the manner in which this specii group proceeded? A Well, we processed all information acquired throuj informers, relatives, friends of the Veneyp. Of course, we were instructed to take emergency units with us at all times. As a matter of fact the emergency units Mere quartered at the Northeastern District to assist us in the forthcoming turnups,, Q Wnat was the purpose of the emergency units, if y< know, being ordered to the Northeastern District? \ 1 •) 4 4 r> 7 S !) 10 11 12 14 14 15 1<> 17 18 19 20 21 22 20 24 25 A They contained the necessary equipment during the event we encountered trouble and in the event that we encounte the wanted suspects, the Veneys, and, of course, if they barri ceded themselves in some place and so forth, Q What sort of equipment does this unit carry? THE COURT* Well, that is stipulated, isn’t it? MR. SAUSE* All right. BY MR. SAUSE*________ __._______— Q Lieutenant, these special units, these emergency units, to your knowledge and experience in the police depart ment have these units ever been utilized in connection with th service of warrants in any case? A Well, sir, to my knowledge in the recent slaying of an A&P manager at Hampden they were used on several occasio to turn up the wanted suspects in that particular investlgatio THE COURT* That was the man who was shot and kill when he was attempting to deposit ... THE WITNESS* November, 36th Street, yes, sir. THE COURT* When was that? THE WITNESS: That was in November, Your Honor, I think, sir. THE COURT* He was making a deposit and three or f< men shot him? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. He was accosted by two 729 4 4 0 assailants and shot during a robbery. 1 •) 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 ltt 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 730 THE COURT* I remember the newspaper story because it made very considerable public discussion, BY MR, SAUSEt Q Were the circumstances of the clanger considered to be roughly similar in both of these cases? A They were considerably more in the latter case, ox this particular case, ThiB was an unusual situation, I, myso in the time I have been with the department — I have only been here sixteen years, but never do I recall where two polic men were shot within a matter of six hours by the same assail ant, I think these circumstances are extraordinary themselves Of course, you are dealing with two men who shot two armed officers and then you have a problem to the comnaunit Q Well, in short, did you feel despite any prior practices thet any particular precaution waB needed in this case? A Oh, yes, sir, circumstances warranted them, Q And you felt the safety of your men requirec them? A Very definitely, sir, Q All right. Now, proceed. You have indicated that the emergency units were assigned to the Northeastern, you beg your investigation. Could you describe your usual modus opera in this particular case? A Well, usually most of the calls were directed — of course, for the first several days we inspected homes, know 1 •» 2 4 f> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 lf> 1(> 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 2o 731 associates, relatives, former associates, cousins and so forth of the wanted suspects, and they were long days. We had appro imately forty five to fifty men and I guess each day was fourt to sixteen hours a day for the 2 5th, 26th, 2 7th ana 28th, and finally ... THE COURT: What was that call you said? I just didn't understand what you said — off the record. (A discussion off the record.) THE WITNESS: Of course, I didn't particularly go out on a lot of turn ups the first couple days, I was inter viewing witnesses, typing. We had scores of people in there from the Greenmount Avenue area who were friendly with the Veneys, who knew the Veneys and so forth. We consumed long hours then. Of course, I guess around the 28th, 29th, we started getting these phone calls, some from the newspapers, some from anonymous sources, some from officers on the streeti Then, of course, we would subdivide our unitB, I would take a group of men, Lieutenant Glover would take a group of men. He would take the calls in East Baltimore, I would take the colls in West Baltimore, BY MR. 3AUSEt Q Was there anything unusual, Lieutenant, about cheok ing the homes of relatives and known friends and places that th persons named in the warrants frequented, was there anything unusual about your investigating those places in an attempt to 4 4 2 1 •) :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 1(5 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 28 24 25 732 serve the warrants? A No, sir, nothing unusual, not that I encountered, Q Well, I mean, was there anything unusual about yo doing that or do you do that in every case? A That is the natural procedure, sir* It is daily routine in law enforcement, Q Now, several times you used the word turn up, would you describe for His Honor what you understand the word turn up means? A It can be an inquiry or it can be a search, Q In other words the words turn up do not necessaril; involve a search? A Q A Oh, no, sir. But It has to do with looking for suspects? 'ies, sir, that is the general term that is UBed by the police department, Q Now, you have indicated that around the 28th or l^th you started receiving these various telephone calls. Did you receive any phone callB, to your knowledge, any informa- tion from persons, known informers or that type of person? A Oh, yes, sir. Q And you have indicated that you received Borne anon,* mouse information, is that correct? i^o‘I ‘.T.l/ A Yes, sir, Q Information from officers on the beat? 1 • ) 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 10 17 18 lit 20 21 22 22 24 25 733 A 0h# ye©, sir, quite a few* Q And are you familiar with the testimony of the las witness, Mr* Goodaale, did you receive information from those sources? A Well, yes. I dlan't receive information from Mr. Gooddale but similar sources. Q Similar sources? A Yes, sir, Q Now, Lieutenant, in as much as the criminal cases themselves are untried we would like you to be unspecific as to the results but you have also indicated that you had certal other persons connected with the suspects in custody, is that correct? A Oh, ye3, air, Q And did you in addition receive information from them? Just yea or no, A Yea, sir, we did. We had two additional suspects that are presently in custody, Q And were any of the turn ups that you made at any time based upon the information that you received from these people in custody? A Yes, sir, I would like to say this, that a good deal of the turn ups were concerned with these other two suspec THK COURTS Did you say a good deal of these, you mean some of these ,,,, 144 1 •) :i 4 5 (i 7 s T 10 11 12 i:i 14 15 1« 17 18 111 20 21 22 22 24 25 THE WITNESS* Well, we were seeking two additional sus pects besides these youths mentioned in this particular inci dent, the Veney brothers, BY MR, 3AUSK; 734 Q In audition to the Veney brothers you were lookinf for certain others? A Yea, 3ir, the 20th and 27th we were seeking the 4 4 rrtwo accomplices other than the Veneys, * THE COURT* At least one was arrested at or near the scene? THE WITNESS; At the scene, sir, THE COURT: At the scene, and it was the result of your interview withNhim that you started after some other peop THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. V THB COURT* Ann as a result of 3ome of your turn ups you succeeded in arresting two additional Buspects, They were arrestee when? THE WITNESS* Gee, I don’t know the exact date, si THE COURT* Within two or three days or longer? THE WITNESS; Yes, sir. One suspect wa3 arrested during one of these turn ups, I think. I don’t know the arres Taylor, " don’t know the particular date of the arrest of Taylor. BY MR, SAUSE; \ Q Now, this information you furnished Mr. Murphy and 1 2 :{ 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 1(1 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 735 me on all of these turn ups, did aorae of those turn ups Involve an attempt or attempts to locate these other suspects? A Yes, sir. Q And in this event you received information from anyone that you had in cuBtoay with regard to the suspects themselves, the primary ones? A Yes, sir\ We were advised by two of the suspects who are presently in custody to watch ourselves, that the Veney boys weren*t going to be taken alive, they were armed with shot guns and pistols and these other two defendants told us to watch ouraelves. They stressed that on several occasions dur ing their interrogation, \ Q Now, in addition to thattype of information did these people in custody give you any locations where the Veney brothers might be? A Could be possibly located, yes, sir, Q And you, as a general rule, consider that informa tion reliable? \ A Very definitely, sir, \ MR. NABRITs Objection, Your Honor, general ruleB about ,,, Tit COURT* I think there are general rules, one a general rule and one in this case, that each may have some bearing. What i3 probable cause depends upon the nature of the\\ information and the nature of the people who furnished it and 1 • > 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 1<> 17 I S 19 20 21 22 22 24 25 736 the Question of whether other people who have been arrested and charged are regarded as people whose information may const tute probable cause is something that seems to me may be the subject of expert testimony. If it isn’t the Court certainly V has heard enough criminal cases ana habeas corpus eases and know* how often it is sound and how often it do<-u leae to othe\\ people. If you want to leave it to the jury, then I don’t \think you would be any better off than if you let him answer 1 MR. MURPHxi Your Honor may recall on that point , MR. HABFiIT: May I complete my objection? I am sorry to interrupt,Mr. Murphy’. My' only point was that the reliability of lndlvldi witness’ statements is something that is pretty difficult to describe in general. THL COURT: I have been saying for sometime that is one of the difficulties of wording the injunction in a case Of this sort, it has to depend upon a great many factors. MR. MURPHY: Your Honor, X would like to point out on this point the Fourth Circuit gives considerable credence . to accomplices — the iraplleation of — you recall Boler vs- Warden, and vhat iB all we nave. \ Tiid COURT: L was thinking of Boler. and my oplnior V anu the Fourt ^xrouit opxnxon but we are drying to get the typ of information, type of people they got information from and witnesses gave different types. Now, whether I will sustain 1 • ) :i 4 f> (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 i : { 14 ir> l(i 17 I S 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 22 the objection If it is made to whether this witness is conaide: the tyoe that informers are generally sound, if you base it on the individual man from your conversation with him but you can't Just Generally that all informers are sound or that the\ . \ x accomplice is kpund or all accomplices are sound. We have got to Judge it on the circumstances with the particular case. All the Court is taking notice of is that they frequently are, and frequently they are not, BY MR. SAUSE: Q In this case, Lieutenant, you have indicated that you received information from persons in custody with regards to the whereabouts of these two men who were named in the warrants. In a number of searches which you reported to Mr, Murphy and I, and which we in turn reported to the Court, a number of those searches involve turn ups made upon that infor mation? \ A I'd say some, sir. I would have to look at the particular sheets to distinguish Just which ones, Q In every case of importance you have noted the exact source of the information or in somo ssases when you have simply indicated, on information received? \ THE COURT: Now, I don't understand that sentence. You are dealing with what roports. There are vaary reports whicl\ simply show no source of information, MR. SAUSE: All right, I will withdraw th* question, 737 1 •> :t 4 ") (i 7 s !( 10 1 1 12 12 14 IT) 1(> 17 1S 10 20 21 22 22 24 25 THE COURT: If you are talking about the ones that hu sent people out on as a result of his interviews, that a s a substantial group, I don't know how many there are, but obvll iy that Is a different situation from some of the others we have spoken of, anonymous persons, material picked up by the officers on the streets, material from the newspapers, (Discussion off the record.) THE COURT: I think wc might go ahead to a good breaking point, a little bit longer if you wish. If you come to the breaking point you would like bp use as your break — it is now after four. MR. Wc will proceed to another point, Your Honor, BY MR. 3AUSE: \ Q Now, Lieutenant, you have indicated that you re ceived various types or information from various sources. Would you ever participate in any of the turn ups which were suggested or indicated by this information? A Yes, sir* ft And would you describe to His Honor — strike that, Was there a general procedure that was followed in these turn ups? A Yes. <4 That you participated in? A Yes, sir. You have heard from prior testimony that 446 738 1 • ) 4 f> <i 7 S !( 10 1 1 12 i:l 14 1.') Hi 17 IS 10 20 21 22 2-i 24 2.") 739 a call was evaluated, each call as we got It, at the North eastern District, or 11* I received it from — I receiver many calls from officers throughout the City who, of course, wouldn name their informer because their informer was frightened, Your Honor, and diun't want to become involved and I received a number of calls myself from officers, via phone, and, of course, we felt that that was somewhat reliable. We asked the officer what he thought, hc‘d say, well, he‘s a good fellow, I knew him before, he has related certain information to me before. And, of course, on this basis we would go out and perform our turn ups. Of course, we had a surveilance car, as has alreaoy been testified to by other officers, to proceed approximately two or three blocks from the particular addresse and send a scout car in advance to survey the situation and return and then we would proceed with the turn up. Now, of course, if someone picked a phone up and said, wo received a call from the switchboard downtown and they said, we got a call from a certain address, some one picked up the phone and they say the Veneys were at a cer tain address and hung up. Then we might try to send a car thex to look this aadx*ess over. Of course, you had to evaluate the emotions, the emotional voice, the audibility of the voice calling,. We woulc Sive credence to the reliability of the call. I have taken :alls irom women, irora men, who told me the Veneys were in this 4 4 7 1 •) 2 4 :> (i 7 N !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 1(i 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 740 house there, there*s a woman living there with them that has a daughter and she'd been taking food to them and so forth, I can't specifically cite the address but I have had those sort of calls, THU COURT: Have you finished the answer? THE WITNESS* Yes. THE COURT* Well, did you keep a record of these calls, any memoi-andum? THE WITNESS* They would be Jotted down on the reports, sir, Novr, they were subsequently typed up, THE COURT* Well, where are those; because the Special Masters looked over and found so many oases in which there wasn't any information as to the source, THE WITNESS* Well, sir, they wouldn't identify themselves, these people who called, THE COURT* You said something would be jotted dow but in many cases the report is from the men who went over it, the reports showed there simply wasn't anything in your record; to show the sources in the records that were turned over, ther< was absolutely anything in the record as to the Bource of in formation. Is there anything, do you know of any records that were not given to Mr. Murphy? THE WITNESS: No, sir, THE COURT* That would be a good deal of help to 1 • ) 2 4 5 (i 7 s !» 10 11 12 I S 14 i r > ic 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 741 the Court. THE WITNESS* No, sir. BY MR. SAUSEt Q Well, have calls that diet not result in turn ups, Lieutenant, was any rccorus kept of those? A No, sir, not to ray recollection. THE COURT* The records show, of the men who looke at the records, they hau records of nine tips that did not result in turn ups and Lieutenant Glover testified that he thought that there were about three tips that he got that he discarded and didn't follow. I thought he perhaps had receive maybe somewhere around a third of the calls that came in. Can you give us any estimate of the number of calls that you took and/or what portion of the total calls you took ana how many tips you discarded, if you can, either exactly or roughly? THE WITNESS; Well, sir, roughly, I would say betwe twelve or fifteen cals that I took personally, that I can recall personally. THE COURT: You mean only calls that you took? THE WITNESS* Personally. THE COURT: Now, how many of those, if any, did yo discard? THE WITNESS* I don't recall discarding any that I took, sir. 149 THE COURT; All right 1 •) 2 4 5 (i 7 S !) 10 11 12 12 14 15 i<; 17 18 1!) 20 21 22 22 24 25 742 x MR. SAUSE: Your Honor, would this be a convenient place for Youi\Honor to break for the day? THE u$URT* Yes. (Court ws adjourned at ^:30 o'clock P.M.)