NewPort News School Board v Atkins Appendix

    APPENDIX TO BRIEF OF APPELLEES

In the
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS 

for the Fourth Circuit

No. 7430

T H E  SCHOOL BOARD OF TH E  C ITY  OF 
N E W PO R T N EW S, ET AL.,

Appellants,
v.

JEROM E A. ATK IN S, ET AL., 
Appellees.

Appeal from the United States District Court for the 
Eastern District of Virginia, Newport News Division

W . H ale  T h o m pso n ,
611 25th Street,
Newport News, Virginia.
P h il ip  S. W a l k e r ,
2411 Jefferson Avenue,
Newport News, Virginia.
Spottswood W . R o b in so n , III, 
623 North Third Street, 
Richmond 19, Virginia.
O liver  W . H il l ,
118 East Leigh Street,
Richmond 19, Virginia.

Counsel for Appellees.

The Press of Lawyers Printing Co., Inc., Richmond 7, Va.



IN D EX
Page

Excerpts from Testimony

S. D. Green............................................................................  1

R. O. N elson..........................................................................  9

Philip W . Murray ................................................................. 11

Joseph Charles Biggins ........................................................  18



In the
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS

for the Fourth Circuit

No. 7430

TH E  SCHOOL BOARD OF T H E  C ITY  OF 
N E W PO R T N EW S, ET AL., 

Appellants,

v.

JEROM E A. ATK IN S, ET AL., 
Appellees.

Appeal from the United States District Court for the 
Eastern District of Virginia, Newport News Division

APPENDIX TO BRIEF OF APPELLEES

EXCERPTS OF TESTIMONY

(tr. 9) S. D. GREEN, SW ORN

DIRECT EXAM INATION BY MR. THOMPSON:

Q. Please state your name, sir.
A. S. D. Green.



Q. What is your business or occupation?
A. Clerk of the school board.

Q. The City of Newport News?
A. O f Newport News.

Q. As such clerk is one of your duties that of taking the 
minutes, taking and transcribing the minutes of the regular 
and special school board meetings?

A. That is right.

Q. Were you present at the school board meeting on July
12, 1955?

A. Yes.

Q. Will you please turn to your record of the minutes of 
the proceedings at that meeting, please, sir.

A. All right.

Q. Mr. Green, does your minutes indicate that a delega­
tion appeared before the School Board o f the City of New­
port News on July 12th and petitioned the school board to 
desegregate the public schools o f the City of Newport 
News?

A. That is right.

Q. 1955. Does your minutes indicate what action was 
taken by the board with respect to petition filed by the peti­
tioners on that occasion?
(tr. 10) A. Yes.

Q. Will you read to the Court the action taken by the 
board at that time.

A. There is a letter from the State Superintendent of 
Public Instruction setting forth certain principles enun­
ciated by the state board. Then after that there is a motion. 
Shall I read the letter?

Q. No, sir. W e would prefer, if you will, to read the mo­



[ 3 ]

tion and the name of the maker o f the motion and the action 
taken by the board with respect to that.

MR. R O B E R T SO N : I would like for him to read the 
record; to read the letter.

TH E  C O U R T : It will ultimately get in anyway, Mr. 
Thompson. Might as well read the whole thing.

MR. T H O M P S O N : W e have no objection to that.

A. This is Superintendent’s Memo No. 3164, June 28, 
1955, to The Division Superintendents from. Dowell J. How­
ell, Superintendent of Public Instruction.

“ Subject: Policy Statement by Governor Stanley and 
the State Board of Education.

“ Below you will note the statement issued jointly by 
Governor Stanley and the State Board of Education at 
its meeting on Thursday, June 23rd.

‘The problems created by the decision o f the 
(tr. 11) United States Supreme Court cannot be solved 

suddenly. The Court recognized that those respon­
sible may well take into account the public interest 
in the elimination o f existing obstacles in a sys­
tematic and effective matter. The Court further 
recognized problems related to the administration, 
physical condition o f the school plants, the trans­
portation o f pupils, personnel, revision of school 
districts, and attendance areas. Attention was di­
rected to the possible necessity for the revision of 
State and local laws.

“  ‘Although the United States Supreme Court 
placed on the school authorities the responsibility 
for assessing and solving the problems in accord­



[ 4 ]

ance with the views expressed by the Court, the 
State Board o f Education and the local political 
subdivisions cannot initiate a plan to accomplish 
an orderly and logical adjustment within the law 
until the General Assembly has enacted appropri­
ate legislation. The State Board is o f the opinion 
that hasty action could well result in serious dam­
age to the public school system.

“  ‘It has not yet been possible for the Commis­
sion on Public Education to propose and the Gen­
eral Assembly to enact appropriate legislation 
which will enable the State Board of Education 
and the local school authorities to adjust to a new 
and different basis for the operation o f public 
schools.

“  ‘Meanwhile, local school authorities are faced 
with the necessity o f completing and formulation 
o f plans for the coming school session.

“ ‘In view o f these facts and circumstances, the 
Governor and the State Board o f Education here­
by declare and adopt as the policy o f this Com­
monwealth that the State Board o f Education will 
continue to administer its functions, in coopera­
tion with local school authorities, to the end that 
the public schools of Virginia open and operate 
through the coming school session as heretofore.’ ”

“ Mrs. Kritzer said she had given this matter great 
and serious thought and felt that she must abide by 

(tr. 12) her own conscience. She, therefore, moved that the 
school board reaffirm its action taken at the last meet­
ing to operate the public schools o f the City o f Newport 
News on a segregated basis for the session 1955-56.



Mr. Channel seconded this motion and it passed.”

Q. Mr. Green, to your knowledge has the school board 
taken any further action with respect to its policy of segre­
gating pupils on the basis o f race in the public schools of 
the City o f Newport News?

A. I don’t believe so-.

Q. Would you refer, please, to your record for the regu­
lar session o f June 14, 1955. Now, will you tell us what 
action was taken by the board on that date with respect to 
the question of desegregating the public schools of this city.

A. A  petition was presented by Doctor Scott, who was a 
member o f the board, and no action was taken on his 
petition.

Q. And also another statement made to the board with 
respect to desegregation at that meeting?

A. I don’t recall such statement.

T H E  C O U R T : What was the petition presented by 
Doctor Scott?

T H E  W IT N E S S : Shall I read that, your Honor?

Q. W e would like that statement read into the record.

TH E  C O U R T : Is that the petition that is the foundation 
(tr. 13) o f the plaintiff’s complaint?

MR. T H O M P S O N : No, sir. That is with respect to a 
recommended course of action to the school board by one 
o f its members.

T H E  C O U R T : If you care to have it read, you may do 
so.

A. “ Doctor Scott said, since the State Board of Educa­



tion would not meet until June 23rd, he felt that such action 
would seem a little premature. He then read the following 
statement:

“  ‘Mr. Chairman:

“  ‘On two previous occasions I have made comments 
which I deemed pertinent as to the attitudes and pol­
icies which we as school board members might adopt 
in order to facilitate the newer policies in education 
emanating from the recent Supreme Court decision. 
On each occasion you have elected to adopt a ‘wait and 
see’ attitude, dependent upon the wording o f the decree 
to be issued by the Court and the announced policy by 
the State Board of Education. Much valuable time has 
been lost in which the groundwork for implementing 
the decision in our own system could have been made.

“  ‘W e have all heard the Supreme Court denounced, 
individually and collectively, by those who disagreed 
with their decision. The impropriety and poor taste 
shown by such public statements need no comment. It 
is significant, however, that in all the comments on the 
decision, I have heard none suggest that the 1896 de­
cision was itself wrong. At least that decision was not 
unanimous and the dissenting opinion of Justice Har­
lan was almost prophetic when it declared: ‘Our Con­
stitution is color blind, and neither knows nor tolerates 
classes among citizens. . . It is therefore to be regretted 
that this high tribunal, the final expositor o f the funda­
mental law of the land, has reached the conclusion that 

(tr. 14) it is competent for a state to regulate the enjoyment 
by citizens of their civil rights solely upon the basis of 
race.’

“ ‘I feel these things are clear: (1 ) All restrictive



{
\ y !

State laws in secondary education based on race alone 
are invalid. (2 ) The problem of effectuating integra­
tion is now a function of the individual boards. It is 
our legal obligation then to establish a timetable or 
other comparable plan to indicate an honest effort to 
comply. No well meaning group of citizens should re­
quire further legal compulsion to do that which we are 
legally and morally obligated to do. Next, it would cer­
tainly be important to point out that there is a clause 
in the Act o f Congress by which Virginia was admitted 
into the Union in 1870. This Act provided that: ‘The 
Constitution of Virginia shall never be so amended or 
changed as to deprive any citizen or class of citizens of 
the United States o f the school rights and privileges 
secured by the Constitution o f the said State.’

“  ‘The Decree indicated that integration should be 
accomplished as soon as feasible. W e have urgencies 
existing which give that clause an immediateness as 
to us, which some other communities may not have. In 
the Negro high school, conditions have been crowded 
beyond belief and will be worse this coming year. This 
and other comparable conditions make an action now 
on our part imperative.

“  ‘Many have found virtue in delaying integration 
at least a year. There seems to be no ultimate way that 
integration can be legally avoided, so why not now. I 
am sure, however, based on your previous statements 
that I could not expect this ideal. In lieu o f that, will 
you at least suggest something positive. As example, 
consider inviting a representative group o f citizens to 
serve as an advisory committee to the board; consider 
sponsoring public forums in which each side may be 
presented, plan to have your teachers this fall meet in



[ 8 ]

one group. Consider these and other plans previously 
suggested.

“  ‘ In summation, I should like to recall the statement 
o f Ralph McGill, the editor o f the Atlantic Constitu­
tion, who said: “ Segregation is on its way out, and he 
who tries to tell the people otherwise does them great 

(tr. 15) disservice. The problem o f the future is how 
to live with the change.”  I certainly trust that this 
board, located on the peninsula, located in an area 
where interracial relationships have been of the highest 
order for many, many years, may see fit to initiate a 
program based on positive action which could well be a 
standard by which the rest o f the State could pattern 
its own future action. I trust that you may have the 
courage to act in a manner which I know your con­
science must dictate.’

“ No action taken on Doctor Scott’s statement.”

T H E  C O U R T : Was Doctor Scott white or colored?

T H E  W IT N E S S : Colored.

TH E  C O U R T : Was he at the time the only colored 
member of the school board?

T H E  W IT N E S S : That is right.

Q. Are the public schools for the City o f Newport News 
presently being operated on a racially segregated basis?

A. They are.

T H E  C O U R T : Have you received any further instruc­
tions from Doctor Howell, Superintendent o f State Board 
o f Education— I believe that is his title?

T H E  W IT N E S S : That is right.



TH E  C O U R T : Since the bulletin that was sent to you 
on June 28, 1955?

T H E  W IT N E S S : No, I have not.

Q. (B y Mr. Thompson) Has the board to your knowl­
edge, Mr. Green, made any plans for eventual desegregation 
o f the public schools o f this city ?
(tr. 16) A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. If any have been made would you know about them?
A. If it had been in a public meeting I would have.

MR. T H O M P S O N : That is all, sir.

MR. R O B E R T S O N : No questions.
* * *

(tr. 48) * * * R. O. NELSON * * *

Q, Doctor Nelson, if desegregation o f the public schools 
should be ordered by this Court at this time what in your 
opinion, if you know, would be the effect upon the require­
ments and the use o f the present school buildings for Ne­
groes and whites?

A. Well, o f course I don’t know. I can merely express 
an opinion.

Q. You are an expert educator in charge o f the school 
system of Newport News, so I will ask you to do so.

MR. H IL L : I object on that basis, your Honor. I don’t 
think he is qualified.

BY  T H E  CO U RT:

Q. Doctor Nelson, have you made a study of the situa­



[10J

tion from a geographical standpoint to determine, according 
to the map that has been introduced into evidence, how many 
Negro children would be broug'ht into what has heretofore 
been a school reserved to white and vice versa?
(tr. 49) A. Well, just privately, Judge. I haven’t pre­
sented anything to anybody because I don’t know on what 
basis the school board would organize the school system. If 
you resort to zoning, you would have one thing. I f  you call 
the whole city one attendance area, you would have another. 
So I just don’t know.

Q. You have certain geographical districts set up now, 
do you not, where a child is assigned to a certain school 
largely by reason o f geographical allocations?

A- Yes; it’s very elastic, though. W e say to a child, “ Go 
to any school you want to go to. I f we have got room we will 
take you.”

Q. I understand that. But, basically, if I have a child 
living in such and such an area, that child is going to such 
and such a school?

A. That is correct.

Q. Have you attempted by using the present system that 
you now have to reallocate the pupils in any manner if de­
segregation occurred?

A. Yes, for my own use.

Q. I f  you want to give those results.
A. W e have two white schools under ordinary zoning 

would remain white schools. W e have three that would be­
come mixed schools. One I would say would become a pre- 
(tr. 50) dominantly Negro school.

Q. How many Negroes do you think would be in the 
other two white schools ?

A. In one of the white schools involved there are 200



[ 11]

white children there now. The number of Negro children 
might run 40 or thereabouts.

MR. H IL L : I didn’t get your last response.

T H E  W IT N E S S : Might run 40 in the small schools that 
now houses 200 white pupils.

3je s)c

(tr. 65) * * * Q. What have you, Doctor Nelson, or your
school board in an official capacity done in the city o f New­
port News since 1954 to develope a favorable climate for 
the desegregation o f schools, if anything?

A. Well, I don’t know what the school board has done 
as individuals.

Q. Officially.
A. By “ officially”  you mean in school board meetings? 

(tr. 66) I would say we have taken no action at all that 
would develop a favorable climate except to administer the 
best system of schools we know how to administer in the 
the best possible way.

Q. But officially the administration has done nothing?
A. That is right.

* * *

(tr. 90) * * * PH ILIP W. M U R R A Y  * * *

BY TH E  CO U RT:

Q. Mr. Murray, let me ask you a question. The buses 
that operate in this community now in Newport News in this 
area— I don’t know what company has it,

A. Peninsula— Tri-Transit. It’s privately owned, Judge.



[ 12]

Q. I assume that they do not adhere any longer to what 
in known as the Jim Crow law in Virginia ?

A. That is right. But I don’t ride the buses much.

Q. What incidents, if  any, have you heard o f since the 
doing away o f that Jim Crow law, which is still on the books 
in Virginia, but what incidents have you heard of trouble 
between the races?
(tr. 91) A. I have been told that the colored people are 
largely following the prior practice o f being seated as they 
were before.

Q. What makes you think that the colored school chil­
dren might not desire to follow the same practice with re­
spect to voluntary segregation as distinguished from—

A. Judge, I wish I might hope that. But I think that there 
is being too much extra-curricular force applied from with­
out.

Q. Well, that may be true. But going back to the bus 
situation, isn’t it true that while the Jim Crow law was in 
effect in Virginia that your police court usually had prob­
ably four or five cases a week involving disorderly conduct 
on buses or failure to adhere to that Jim Crow law? Isn’t 
that true?

A. No, sir, there were very few cases of that sort in 
Newport News. Very few.

Q. Maybe they all clogged up in Norfolk then.
A. I think there has been in Newport News compara­

tively little argument and fussing with reference to the 
buses. Mighty few.

* * *

(tr. 93) * * * Q. What is the compelling factor, then, in



[ 13]

the Newport News situation that leads you to your con­
clusions ?

A. I think that in the State o f Virginia that the State 
Board of Education is the level to which we have to comply 
and conform with in the administration and operation of the 
school system in Virginia.

Q. Is it fair then that your position is that if the State 
Board o f Education changed its view then you would have 
no difficulty in Newport News?

A. I haven’t said we wouldn’t have any difficulty, but 
I think that that is the first thing that has to be done for 
us to take definite steps in connection with the matter.

(tr. 94) Q. Let me ask you this: Have you— I am not 
talking about you ; I am talking about your school board— 
have you done anything o f an official nature to develop a 
climate of acceptancy in Newport News ?

A. W e have not.

Q. Have you done anything to assist in this climate of 
hostility to the decision ?

A. W e have awaited instructions and directions from 
the State Board o f Education.

Q. No, sir, that wasn’t my question. My question was: 
Have you as the school board done anything to help generate 
this spirit o f hostility to the decision concerning desegre­
gation ?

A. W e haven’t taken any leadership in undertaking to 
counteract what seems to be the very determined prevailing- 
opinion of the white population.

Q. You still haven’t answered my question, sir.
A. I think I have.

Q. Sir?
A. I think I have.



Q. Maybe you didn’t understand it, I don’t know. My 
question was just the opposite. Not whether you had done 
anything to counteract the situation, whether you had done 
anything to help promote it.

A . Well, I have just answered and said that we have not. 
(tr. 95) Q. As a member of the school board did you not 
take an oath, the first part o f which says you would defend 
the laws o f the United States and the Constitution thereof?

JUDGE A L M O N D : If your Honor please, now 
that is getting into a moral standard. W e want to regis­
ter an objection. Every public official takes an oath. I 
think that is getting rather far afield, sir.

TH E  C O U R T : I don’t think it makes any differ­
ence, Mr. Hill, whether Mr. Murray took an oath or 
didn’t take an oath to support the Constitution o f the 
United States. The question resolves itself into whether 
or not the school board members are under the process 
o f the Court to require compliance with the Constitu­
tion o f the United States. In other words, the mere fact 
that I may have taken an oath to support the Consti­
tution o f the United States does not make it incumbent 
upon me to go out and promote either segregation or 
desegregation publicly, does it? It makes me comply 
with the Constitution of the United States; but it does 
not make me go out and publicly try to interest citizens 
one way or another.

MR. H IL L : I guess that would all be dependent 
upon your view o f your responsibilities o f your office, 
Judge. It would appear to me, if I were a member o f a 
school board, and which it had now been declared to be 
(tr. 96) the law of the land that we no longer have 
racial segregation and, having made an oath to defend



[ 15)

the Constitution and laws o f the United States, it 
would seem to me I would feel it was my duty to either 
do one of two things, either actively promote that view 
o f the law or resign. I agree with you everybody has 
different senses of duty. But the reason for my question 
was based on this: As I got from the witness’s testi­
mony, he tried to convey the impression that the School 
Board of the City of Newport News had done all they 
could under the circumstances, and I think we are en­
titled to explore that and determine whether or not 
they have done all they could under the circumstances.

T H E  C O U R T : I understand from Mr. Murray’s 
testimony, if I gathered it correctly, that he feels that 
they are certainly to a great extent under the direction 
o f the State Board of Education, and that the Legisla­
ture o f Virginia has in effect— and I will use the word, 
although I am always criticized by the press or other­
wise for using some slang expression— but in effect 
that the Newport News School Board has been hogtied 
and they can’t do anything, by reason o f the passage of 
laws o f the State o f Virginia and otherwise. In other 
words, isn’t this the answer: that if the school board 
puts into effect a plan for desegregation, then under 
(tr. 97) the present existing Virginia laws the first 
time that a colored child is assigned to a school in which 
there is a white child in attendance or vice versa, not 
only that school closes but every school o f the same 
class, if it is elementary or if it is a high school grade, 
all would close in the city of Newport News. I don’t 
know the names of these schools but there are ap­
parently, I think, five elementary schools which have 
been heretofore reserved for white children. I will just 
take the first one that is on the list, and that is Daniel 
Elementary School. If a Negro child is admitted into



[16]

Daniel Elementary School, either by the school board 
or by the Pupil Placement Board if such legally exists, 
or by this Court, then in that event not only Daniel 
Elementary School will automatically close but also 
Jackson Elementary School, Walter Reed Elementary 
School, Magruder, Woodrow Wilson, Dunbar, Jeffer­
son, Marshall, and Booker T, Washington Elementary 
School will all close. Isn’t that your interpretation of 
the Virginia law ?

MR. H IL L : That is correct.

T H E  C O U R T : As it exists now. And it creates a 
lovely situation. Not only that, it cuts off all the funds 
from the State level.

Now, then, I understand Mr. Murray’s position is : 
(tr. 98) What can I do? He may properly ask you, 
“ Well, Mr. Hill, what can I do?” He is not required 
to go out, I don’t understand, and so-call preach the 
gospel one way or the other. I don’t think that is his 
duty. His duty is to comply with the law and he is in 
a very unfortunate position. The time may come where 
he or someone else, or some other school board some 
other place, will have to answer the process of contempt 
with some court, and that question will have to arise 
at the proper time. But when a man’s hands are literally 
tied from compliance with the Constitution of the 
United States, I don’t think that he should be reminded 
o f his oath. I sustain the objection.

Q. (By Mr. Hill) Let me come back to one other thing, 
though. You testified that you and the members o f the 
school board discussed this problem of desegregation, is that 
correct ?

A. That is right.



[ 17]

Q. Was that after the suit was filed?
A. Well, it had been discussed before then. But it was 

primarily discussed when the suit was brought and, as I 
stated this morning, the school board then requested an in­
terview with the Governor. I think that the Newport News 
School Board was the first school system in the State o f 
Virginia that went to see the Governor and asked for a con­
ference with him and with Mr. Howard. And we received 
(tr. 99) that invitation from the Governor and we went up 
and as fully presented the matter as we knew how and sub­
sequently the General Assembly met in special session and 
passed these laws with which you are familiar.

Q. Now for the record will you tell us who went to see 
the Governor from the Newport News situation?

A. Well, Doctor Nelson and all o f the white members of 
the School Board of the City o f Newport News.

Q. Inasmuch as you were taking up a discussion o f a 
racial issue, why was the Negro member excluded?

A. Because we knew that he did not in any sense agree 
with the majority of the board. There would be no occasion 
to take somebody up there who would object to a procedure 
that we thought was advisable.

Q. Then what was the procedure that you thought advis­
able then?

A. To go and see the Governor and ask the Governor to 
call a special session o f the General Assembly and to under­
take to enact laws that were within the provinces o f the 
State and would enable the school system to be carried out 
in Virginia.

Q. In a segregated fashion?
A. Well, not necessarily a segregated fashion, preferably 

that way from the standpoint o f all the members who went



there. But on the basis that was in conformity with the law.

Q. But that was the general spirit o f your thinking in 
(tr. 100) the matter, that you were to preserve segregation, 
isn’t that correct ?

A. That is right.
^  )jc ^

(tr. 126) * * * JOSEPH CH ARLES BIGGINS * * *

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. THOMPSON:

Q. Mr. Biggins) I believe you testified that our public 
library was operated on a desegregated basis except chil­
dren, is that correct, sir ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recall whether or not it was necessary for 
certain Negro citizens to sue the City of Newport News in 
order to make those facilities available to them?

A. A  suit was entered in that connection, yes, sir.

(tr. 127) Q. After this suit was filed and was about to 
mature, the City then opened the facility to Negroes, did it 
not?

A. Well, there was a legal question involved in that as 
to who would do the opening, whether it would be the library 
board, which was an independent agency, or the City Coun­
cil. And the question turned around on that point for a con­
siderable time and finally the library board, as I understand 
it, on their own volition decided on the present policies that 
now prevail.

Q. It was necessary to bring legal action in order to get 
that done. Now, with respect to the equality of recreational 
facilities, was it not necessary for certain citizens to bring



[iyj

suit against the City o f Newport News to require them to 
build a recreational facility for Negro children ?

A. Well, frankly, I don’t recall that.

Q. You were City Manager, sir; you don’t recall that the 
Bernard Watkins, et al, brought suit against the City of 
Newport News to require them to provide equal recreational 
facilities for Negroes?

A. No, I don’t. I do not recall that.

Q. You don’t recall us sitting in your office and talking 
about agreeing on this case?

A. Perhaps I did. But I do not recall it.

Q. When was the white recreational facility built?
A. It was built during the World W ar II, as a part o f 

(tr. 128) the Federal Public Works Administration pro­
gram.

Q. When was the Negro recreational facility built?
A. Oh, long after the white one was built. After the war 

I think it was.

Q. Some good many years afterwards?
A. That is right.

Q. Mr. Biggins, you also stated that the appropriation 
for school facilities had been substantially equal. I would 
like to refresh your memory a little bit on that question. You 
recall having a conversation with citizens and your Council 
with respect to the lack of recreational facilities at the Hunt­
ington High School?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I believe the City just recently spent a large sum of 
money to provide gymnasium facilities for the Newport 
News High School, did it not?



[ 20 ]

A. That was the result o f the fire and as a result o f the 
fire, and was not intended to be the permanent solution o f 
the gymnasium required at the Newport News High School. 
My understanding was that there was a shift there, that 
they had contemplated the present gymnasium being used 
by girls with the expectation that another gymnasium would 
be built at a future date for the boys.

Q. Are there any gymnasium facilities provided at the 
Huntington High School?
(tr. 129) A. Well, under an arrangement between the 
City and the school authorities we have permitted the high 
school children to use the recreation building during the 
class periods and also under an arrangement with the New­
port News Shipyard we use the gymnasium facility there 
which was constructed when the original Huntington High 
School was built.

Q. But are there any gymnasium facilities at the Hunt­
ington High School comparable to those at the Newport 
News High School?

A. No more than those that I have mentioned.

Q. You also made reference to employment opportun­
ities, Mr. Biggins, with the City. Is it not a fact that you 
have a quota on the number o f persons that may be em­
ployed by the Newport News Police Department?

A. You mean the number o f Negro employees?
Q. Yes, sir.

A. W e have a limitation, yes.
Q. You have a limitation based on race, is it not?

A. That is right.
Q. You also have a limitation on the question of promo­

tion, do you not ?



[21 ]

A. No, sir.

Q. Isn’t it true, as a matter of fact, that no Negro has 
ever been promoted in the Police Department?

A. That is true. But that isn’t because there is any rule 
(tr. 130) against it.

Q. Is the failure to promote based on the fact that these 
people are not competent?

A. The failure to promote is based upon the eligibility 
o f the respective candidates for promotion at the time the 
promotion is made. That goes for years o f service and their 
qualifications to do the job.

Q. And you have not found any Negroes to meet the 
qualifications ?

A. Not at that time the promotions were made I have not.

Q. You haven’t had any trouble between the races in the 
public library, have you ?

A. None that I know of. Never have heard of any.

Q. Both Negroes and whites use it, do they not?
A. Yes.

Q. Have you had any trouble with respect to your public 
workers, particularly in your health department ?

A. None whatever.

Q. They work on an integrated basis there, do they not?
A. Harmoniously, satisfactorily in every way.

Q. They have been so working for years, have they not ?
A. Yes; for years.

Q. If these people when they have had contacts with each 
other have been able to work on a harmonious basis, Mr.



[ 2 2 ]

Biggins, upon what do you predicate your theory that there 
(tr. 131) may be great trouble if the schools are desegre­
gated ?

A. I don’t recall ever saying there would be great trouble
if the schools were desegregated.

* * *