Fourth Public Hearing on the New Jersey College of Medicine & Dentistry

    MLG

RE: FOURTH PUBLIC HEARING
ON THE NEW JERSEY COLLEGE
OF MEDICINE 6 DENTISTRY

Transcript of the above proceedings taken on

February 21, 1968, at 1100 Raymond Blvd., Newark,

New Jersey, Ralph A. Dungan, Chairman.

RICHARD A. MERLINO & ASSOCIATES
CERTIFIZD SHORTHAND RiETORTICRS

1256 SOUTH BROAD STREET
TRENTON, NEW JER3LY 08610

587-2630



1

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : I take it that

you are ready, Mr. Wheeler?

MR. WHEELER: Initially we would

like to start with a statement designed

to clear the air. It relates to the

meeting, the timetable which has been

under such great discussion to ascertain

whether the New Jersey College of Med-

icine and Dentistry will be erected in

the City of Newark. The statement

addresses itself to a statement made by

Chancellor Dungan, that ap peared in

yesterday's paper, that the meeting

tonight would have to be the final meet-

ing in terms of resolution of all of the

conditions contained in the Wood-Cohen

letter. And for the record I wish to

state that it is the position of the

community that, Mr. Dungan's position

is in error in judgment on the basis of

the following? The careful examination

of the seven conditions contained in the



Wood-Cohen letter, and based on the

history of the whole problem, you will

find that the most salient condition,

certainly one of the most salient in

the whole area of relocation and the

relocation elan. It is our understand-

ing, that as of now, the Philadelphia

Regional Office is not prepared to offer

a relocation program for this project

at this juncture. Clearly, if for no

other reason, there will have to be more

meetings than the one that was talked

about as the final meeting in yesterday !

daily press. It is our understanding

that the relocation plan submitted by

the Newark Housing Authority is still.

being reviewed by Mr. Beckett, who is

in charge of that aspect of the program

for the Philadelphia Regional Office;

and I thought the only correct and

certainly in the best interest of all

principles concerned that if he make



crystal clear that tonights meeting can-

not be the last meeting and certainly

one of the major reasons for this, is

the fact that one of the most salient

conditions cannot be met at this junct-

ure, because the data that is necessary

for the judgment and presentation to the

community and other principles has not

been evaluated and com plied to.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: I would like to

comment on the aspect of the finality,

and it certainly was not my intention

to say it was going to be the last meet-

ing. But I hope the peop le on this side

of the table will arrive jointly here

this evening with respect to the p oss-

ibility of scheduling a hearing at an

earlier date, was meant to preclude a

continuation, a kind of intensive dis-

cussion that we have. I agreed with

what Mr. Wheeler has to say on behalf

of the community on the crystal clear-



4

tress of the relocation plan. It was my

feeling, however, that in our discussion

where we touched on various aspects of

relocation of land and revicon of land

and re-use pattepns c id construction of

new housing, we ccLe to a roint where

we had i dentified suffi cient possibilite

that all of us assuming, that ')ecarae p art

of the reloc-t i on Tulan would be satisfie

if this was what substantially could

and should ee done the nost important

asp ect of it in se-.e ways in ny opinion,

the. establishment and agreement in

rri.ncinle to establish the so-called

"Umbrella Group," representin7 the

community on all future land re-use

discussions itself, not in the sense of

precluding the future opportunity not

only for meetings in advance in the ;join

of the hearing, but to make objections

which would be taken to help ' them at

future meetings and discussions.



MR. Jm ELER: Chancellor Dungan, in

keeping with all that so it is crystal

clear, I would like at this juncture

that we ;-,et a response from Y r. Beckett

in th5,a area so that we can know to the

best of his ability just what the situa-

tion is at this time, and roceed from

tha point.

MR. DA iZIG: Sitting in judgment as

to what is crystal clear and what is not

without smebody else wilo is a participan

in this play having been heard. -Now,

we talked about the issues as being in

prime order of importance. The quantity

of land

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Correct.

. MR. DANZIG. This has not only been

discussed fully and finally and completl'

as the results of thise disucssions.

Then we went to other things called

community participation in relocation;

and I want to submit for the record that

I



our•entire relocation plan has been laid

before the community in the documents

that I presented the first evening and

before you sir and this committee and

number two, I placed before you into the

record our relocation plan and then the

issue because curiously attacked on the

relocation plan and resources weren't

adequate in that the community wasn't

participating in the disposition of land

Then we compromised in that issue becaus

of. the disposition of the plan and the

community's participation in the kind

of housing relocation resources and we

settled on that without the "Umbrella

Group," and agreements by the authorities

to negotiate any of the lands further

in the Fairmont project until the

community was informed to make adequate

NB. ' 'W IEELER : All . our--,.

MR. DAITZIG:• -- and parts into the.

record and written these worda. Nbw,



7

a relocation plan has been reviewd, it

is being studied, it has been approved

before the Medical School; we have re-

located 4,800 families without trouble.

If you say now that this thing is becom-

ing a red herring across the trail, what

we are trying to meet is deadlined not

impossible. We are trying to get the

facility in place in time for the Septem

ber school term, and the objective here

in the Wood-Cohen letter as you all read

it, is to put forth an agreement here in

these negotiations_to reach what is know

as a substantial agreement in all matter

that we have reached substantial agree-

ment that our critical need is to resolv-.

9 nd'I take it that we have resolved full

and frankly in the discussions of the

first evening. The second day you

prepared a document telling what we had

discussed, but no, we had to go through

section by section, paragraph by para-



graph and discuss everything we had al-

ready discussed for new matter to be

introduced. I say that the time has

come to stop putting the red herring

across .the trail, the coming of a

facility which everyone wants and every-

one needs. If we do not get on with

the relocation of these people, we

are never going to get on with the bus-

iness, and never get on with what we

hope will be a peaceful hearing. As

soon as we can all understand that all

matters in dispute, and all matters in

the minds of the community have been

resolved by the members of the community

we can get on with these hearings. I

think there are- two words here, one is

reasonable, having to do with full and

open ' discussion and compromise and will-

ness of.both the community and the other

side, if in deed there are two sides;

and finally the need to go on with a



9

hearing of this plan of the Medical

School. There will be plenty of time

and opportunity to come before the Med-

ical School, even put the shovel in the

ground. They have no argument with the

plan, accept that the land for the schoo

the forty-six acres are nowhere near

ready to deliver. We have said if there

1,

will be peace in the community, if in

deed these meetings are settled, the

tension in this town relieved, we must

come to a decision. We have a good City

in which all the people will live and

work together, but there is fear and

they run away. There is fear and with

this fear come threats, and the people

are afraid and they run. I say, that

we have before you and this community

a reviewed relocation plan by the

community, by its lawyers, its defense

counsel which has asked the Philadelphia

Regional Office to review all the pro-



10

cesses, and they have reviewd all of

them, I say, that the relocation plan

covers this Medical School site for the

whole year, The whole program for next

year and the next three years, and

everybody chooses to ignore that subject

and I t is legitimate. The task force

has met with the community, and I say,

let's get on with the business of making

peace across this table, and I cry out

for peace in this community so that we

can get on with the business and do what

is right as a community effort, not this

side or the other side but all the peopl

for the whole town.

MR. BECKETT: In light of what has

been said in referecne to the Wood-Cohen

letter, for the purpose of reiteration

of then terms and conditions of the

Wood-Cohen letter, it indicated when

substantial agreement on all seven point

included in that letter were. made, then



11

the Federal Government would be in a

position to make its recommendations

relative to approval of the Medical

Center project N.J. 196. As it relates

to the relocation aspects of this pro-

gram, I must say that we have been here

for the past three meetings and we have

listened and received the various

recommendations that have been made by

Mr. Danzig, the community group, the

State and others, and in keeping with

our State t s attorneys responsibility,

we are in the process of collating all

of these data and this information. And

on the basis of the data and information

that will be incorporated into the

relocation plan and program which we

will submit, I would like to make the

following statement. At that time this

office will recommend to Washington

its approval of a relocation program for

the Medical Center program, N.J. 196,



12

if

next week. This information and data

which will be received and collated;

this information and data, 'together with

data already compiled and evaluated will

serve as a basis after being substantially

approved for the relocation activities.

The entire City of Newark will be pre-

sented with the current plan, and it is

our continuing concern that your approval

of relocation and the difficulties of

the subject, will be in fact,'through

the careful and humane implementation

of a peaceable understanding and timing

program which will provide the necessary

housing resources for all city occupants,

and can contemplate the subject project

and ' other projects for the public. The

Federal Government further guarantees

any a spects of implementation of sub-

stantial timing in this program. Services

or any other conditions of our approval

in the relocation program will be applied



13

affected. Finally, the details of the

entire approved reloc-ltion program will

be made available to concerned individ-

uals and organizations both public and

voluntary prior to the holding of public

hearings.

	

.

MR. WHEELER: I would like to . say

something in response to what Mr.

Beckett has just said. I would like

to show Mr. Danzig we accept that there

are twenty-two acres of the Fairmont

project available, we allowed that

-decision, however, number two we still

do not have adequate information by the

time the new housing already in operatio

according to Mr. Danzig. We do not have

information about the rents in these

new houses which are underway. Number

three, we do not have adequate informat-

ion about the size,_of the_units-ih

these houses which are supposedly under-

1

1to this; relocation of all such projects



way. I think at the present time that

in itself indicative of community needs

to know exactly what is going on in the

housing fields before we can say in

substantial ar,reement'on the item in the

Wood-Cohen letter that refers to re-

location,. number three, it .has a great

bearing on the

MR. - DANZIG.: I read the proposal

put forward from Mr. Dungan, I am still

unconvinced that there is a definite

amount of --

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Danzig, can

make sure other lands are available.

That-is to my understanding is not in

the Wood-Cohen letter, we have. the

substantial agreement on matters of

substance

MR. DANZIG: That, Mr. Williams, : is

a matter of substance that a few acres

be left open discussion. The major

point on. land available to the community



is that most of it lies in the Fairmont

land, I think when we have reached

substantial agreement to the extent that

we can reach substantial agreement if

the community really wants to know the

detail data just as the legal defense

committee of the NAACP was welcome in.

my shop to get such information as

they wanted and they got everything

they wanted. They have an affada .vit,

N.H.A., you can make a telephone call

to find out, and incidentally, if you.

drive in that area you will see - they .

are under construction there; barring

strike, war or and catastrophe,'they

will be -ready between six and nine month .

MR. STERN: I want to ask. a questio

with respect to an activity which applie

to the next act as to how we are doing

trying to come to final negotiations,

and when we have reached that final

night, no doubt every eye will be on



16

that period of time. We are trying to

build here an importance of these meet-

ings, and I think. we have all got to

reconize the p reliminary problem and

try the situation whereby, the same

group of the force at the last four

meetings will continue periodically to

see in effect that the medical program

is carried out in a pro p er way as we

have agreed, and see infact, may other

details concerning the Medical Center

that have been undertaken in Newark are

carried out. That it be stated very

clearly by the State of New Jersey and

the Federal Government and other p arties

who have something to say In this, namel

the School, have said plainly and

committed theselves that no one will

be asked to move and the Medical School

will not start in that area until ade-

quate and satisfactory relocation facil-

ities are found for each family.

JT !



17

Further, the statement has been made

with reference to the Aize of the

apartments and with reference to the

price of apartments, it is prepared to

back this agreement to the extent that

either the Federal Government and the

City of Newark will. relocate these

families to insure that nobdy will be

denied adequate housing. Take these

things into consideration, it does not

mean that you don T t weigh to the specfic

obviously indicates that you should have

the right, and indeed the obligation

to place that agreement and make sure.

that it is carried out. It does mean

that there has been more than an agree-

ment there as to guarantee to meet this

relocation need and at some p oint we

have got to go on the only way you will

find out whether we intended to meet

our pledge of the school, its pledge,

to start and to then use your powers



.18

underneath this agreement to see this

agreement that we are trying to rake

here is giving ample opportunity to

stop this process if you will at any

time if we have gone off this track.

That meeting --

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, I have

two questions. The first question is
directed to Mr. Beckett. Mr. Beckett,

I want it made crystal clear in my mind

on the basis of the statemtn that you

just gave, you are saying to me that

the community can expect a copy of the

final review with the approval following

from your office next week, is'that

correct?

MR. BECKETT: Yes, that 1 s correct.

MR. WHEELER: Next week. Now, the

second quest i on I want to address myself

to Mr. Stern. In his statement which

certainly touched over things in the

agreement, however, there was an omissio a



19

that we have addressed ourselves to,

and this total negotiation situation,

the community has had some very unplesan

experiences and dealings with the step

by step negotiations on this total

problem. Some of the :points were. either

left out . intentionally or unintentionall

but the point of the matter is the

hostory of the negotiations on this

subject dictates a step by step analysis

of each point, no matter whatever steps

are taken to move on to peace and

traquillity, etc, etc. The point of

the matter is that on many instances

there have been outright misrepresention

and our basic concern as representatives

of the community we have obligations

in the interests of . the community to

ascertain this position and to see that

they are protected in every juncture.

While it may appear to be slow and

in some instances it may seem we are

t



2Cf

nick-picking, when you have not, you

find that nick-picking is the only way

to ascertain that you are going to be

protected. With this view in mind, I

would want those representing the. State,

the Medical School and the Newark . Hous in

Authority and anyone else to realize

that we too thave a trust in total

negotiations, and while we have this,

certainly with the proper attitudes on

the part of other principles and proper

cooperation we will protect the communit

and bring the Medical School to the

City of Newark.

CHANCELLOR DUiNGAN: Mr. Wheeler,

may .l comment, or as the question was,

what in addition on State and Federal

guarantee that nobody is going to be

relocated and the process will stop.

That you have rent supplements available

we hive provided at least twenty acres

and probably as much, I won't say, some



21

additional in R-6 and that area. What

in heavens name other than units actuall

in being and families designated to

those units can on possibly give at this

time.

MR. WHEELER: First of all, I wasn i

referring to that aspect of it. Two

basic conditions in the Wood-Cohen letter

and if Mr. Danzig wants to play it that

way we can study lightly the whole

question. If there has been a proper

relocation plan that has received approval

from the proper authority. All I1I1

asking, Ralph Dungan, at this juncture

from the terms of the community we are

not going to budge or assume or act in

supposition until such a document has

been produced. We have had a chance

to review it, and based on the history

of misrepresentations there is no getting

around : i t, and I don't care a dang if

ther is peace in the world and the mill-



22

ions of white dogs. The misrepresent-

ation has taken place, we have got an

obligation and that is to protect the

community. We stand forthwith as soon

as the document from the Philadelphia

Regional Office is ready we will get.

at the question of substantial agreement

on the whole matter of relocation; but

only after the document has been produce

MR. WILLIAMS: I want to answer

some questions. What affidavit can

we want and state that no one will move

the urban renewal, when you know as well

as I do they have never been inforced.

Now, in answer to Yr. Stern, we have

lend marked by the C ity here under Model

Cities and referred to the Wood-Cohen

letter, we are guaranteed certain rights

You mentioned perhaps we want to watch-

dog over the process that may be true.

We are knowledgable, for before the act

takes place, knowledgeable enough to



23

know that in the Wood-Cohen lette sub-

stantial agreement must occur, therefore

we can make intelligent decisions. Unti

we have relocation before us we cannot

make any committment to supposition

that land from R-6, despite Mr. Lou

Danzig t s good pledge, until we know

more certain that other certain number

of houses that may be needed are given,

etc, etc. Now, I want tc; make the p oint

a little stronger. You know certain

bargains that you have to keep.. I

don't trust nobody to put it quite

bruntly. I don u t trust nobody because

of certain things that have been done

in the past. I am not a Pavlovic dog

you have got to condition. We are not

going to aggregate our responsibility

to the community not knowing what --

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Mr. Williams,

I think you know I don't ask you to

trust us. Doesn't society



MR. WHEELER: The point is if we

are bringing the Medical School to

Newark, that in itself should in effect

establish a question of trust. Trust

is based on experience, so I address

myself in going back to the history of

the matter --

MR. DANZIG: The question of re-

location as we have presented it, the

implications that have arisen, spoke

out forthrightly by these gentlemen that

there is no elan, they have never seen

a plan, they have never heard of housing

in being, that no reloc^tion is ever

taken place, that everybody has been

kicked around for two years or better

in --

MR. WHEELR: People have --

MR. DANZIG: -- and now these peopl

who for a whole year have fought the

Medical School can sit here now and say

that they have fought for the Medical

3



25

School, when the fight has been against

it, and every turn that has been made---

ML's. WHEELER: And to care for the

City in that matter --

MR. DANZIG: It was only for this

reason that --

MR. HEELER : It's going to --

MR. DANZIG: Now, let's hear the

Chancellor.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Come now. Now,

gentlemen, let's have some order.

MR. DANZIG: I. addressed myself her

and I got --

MR. WHEELER: The Chancellor is

not ignoring what you are talking about.

MR.DA+ZIG. I don't ignore it,

I don't --

MR. WHEELER: I am not reading that

kind of stuff in the p aper, let me

finish --

MR. DANZIG: Now 'it's made, we have



26

MR. W= DM: This material I have

seen is fraudulent --

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Now look here,

gentlemen.

MR. DANZIG: Now read this.

MR. WHE t, R: This is why we have

the law, haven't we? We are taking the

lest step, even if we h = ve to go to

court.

MR. DANZIG: Stop practicing law,

Harry.

MR. WEE=R: I know enough about

law to say --

MR. DANZIG: Now, Mr. Chancellor,

may I slake a statement?

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : May I ask if

everyone will please try and keep the

temperature down a little bit. We are

not getting any place kicking up mistake

that hove been made. This hasto be --

MR. DANZIG: I am addressing myself



27

CHANCELLOR DUMAN: I don't think

you can be addressing yourself to --

MR. DANZIG: I didn't accuse any-

one --

MR. WHEELER: That is what you said

MR. DANZIG: Now they are turning

it around and p reventing us from --

CHANCELLOR DUTNGAN: Nobody is

preventing the Medical School from

coming to Newark. We all want the

Medical School in Newark.

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor Dungan,

we want to say that . -- .

MR. DANZIG: For example, you want

the first and last words. But it is

not part of the negotiations, and you

are not going to have it.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Okay, enough

of this.

MR. DANZIG: Now, there is a com-

plete p icture of this whole thesis of

community involvement which we are here



28

to set into motion. On the question

of relocation, I thought we had resolved

that there would be a committee composed

of two people from the State, and person

from the Federal Government, two people

from the community, from the Human Right 3

Division, I said other community peo p le

and I su °rested someone from the U.C.C.

No one wanted to pursue that, any point

any further. I have asked for, and now

as thaugh it never occurred it is com-

pletely forgotten. That in addition

to the surveillance of the State Govern-

ment and the Federal Government, in

addition to community groups and

organizations that we put on the table

as indicative of our nosition. The

community is involved in relocation,

this is forgotten;- it.it forgotten all

the things that we have written and

layed in the record; that you took the

time out and out down. I came here last



last Monday night and heard you, Mr.

Chairman, say this is the . night, this

is the night we are making wonderful

progress; we would wrap this whole thin

up. You even said there would be no

further meetings, we could do it. Monday

night. We come here tonight, and at

the very opening we are immediately

told we can't wrap it up tonight.

MR. MOORE : Ther was no statement

made that we can wrap this whole thing

up. I don't say you are giving us --

ER. DANZIG: Mr. Chancellor, we

would like to instill confidence here.

I would like for the State of New

Jersey to do the relocation --

MR. WHEELER: We are not here to

listen to that. Besides, Mr. Moore

still has the floor.

MR. MOORE: having put U.C.C. is

position in this negotiations. Numt:er

two, and finally, I want to make it



30

clear for the record that U. 'C.C. and

other community Deople want to bring

the Medical School to Newark. The

fight of the community was to limit

the usage of the land that would hold

the Medical complex; . that was the only

opposition to the Medical School; in

addition to when it came there it had

to be the housing for the people that

were displaced;. that was the only

opposition. Only that this is --

CHANCELLOR D"JNGAN : It seems to

me the issue ladies and gentlemen here

is whether we can agree both here and

at the table and in the audience at

large, that the kind of progress that

we have made thus far is sufficient

to permit going ahead with the hearing,

a continuation of .this kind of intensive

discussion that we have on the relocat-

ion issue, including Mr. Beckett's

approved . plan on all issues. It seems



31

to me we have solved the acreage, the

increasing land for housing and committ-

ments made by the State and Federal

Government, etc, etc.. In other words,

I do think that we have shown some

movement forward without precluding

anyone's righs, most expressly the

community, to interrupt where there is

some break on the ground rules.

MR. WILLIAMS: What you are saying

is in contradiction of the terms. You

are saying we have agreement.

CHANCELLOR DL'NGAN : No, what I am

saying --

MR. WILLIAMS : There are still

items to be cleared up here.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Perhaps what

i have said is substantial agreement,

what I meant was substantial progress

on certain aspects and -- "

MR. WILLIAMS: I think they are

implying that substantial progress is



32

being made, we go on that, what you

mean, fine.

MR. STERN: That is exactly what

is meant.

KR_..WHEELER: Let me say one thing,

Joel, that it be made crystal clear

if we are going to continue to talk

all of these conditons as we go along,

however, you cannot call a public

hearing until the document from the

Philadelphia front office have been

completed and submitted, if we agree

for you to go on with the :public hearing

without that document, then we will be

forgetting everything that we fought

for in this matter, I am sorry. If you

look at the record, in the history of

this whole problem, the real trouble

spot was relocation.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: I agree.

MR. DANZIG: I don!t agree. The

last thing was the problem of --



33

MR. WHEELER: In the letter finally

composed in answer to the other letter

to move ahead, it says that before the.

land can be conveyed before the public

hearing, this aspect of. the ne gotiations

has been consummated.

MR. DANZIG: Harry, I am not sugges

ing for the tr oment in this hearing that

the legal requirements of that letter

are met, that HUD said okay Danzig you

can hold the meeting, all I want is

some expression for this table or from

this community that we have made sub-

stantial progress as far as the communit

is concerned. On the HUD approval to

go ahead with the herring we can go

ahead and we can continue to disucss

on some of the other things which I

agree are not --

MR. KENNEDY: I would like to make

an observation if I could based in re-

gard to the conduct at the table. It

y



seems we are engaged in a'.lot of stuff

which does not relate to the discussion.

Secondly, in regard to what I have

, observed since I have participated in

the earlier meetings, I do think that

some progress has been made. I did

note at the last hearing there was a

period of disunity with regard to

community representation in regard to

the services, in and 'gut-patient. I

say that some of the claims that have

been made by the representitives of

the community at this table have been'

very very valid. I also recognize there

are some sections that have not even

been touched upon in the earlier hearing

The subject of the construction people

is one. There should be full and com-

plete intergration at the l7edi•cal site

on the subject of construction. low,

in regard to where we can go, I can't

sit here and not feel that some people

S.



35

on both sides of the table might be a

little punchy from all this negotiations

and I have done a lot of negotiating

in my lifetime. The people in the

community want to see this grou p make

some progress. Now, it appears to me,

in trying to analyze this problem that .

we have here tonight, there is one thing

that this whole thing revolves around,

that the Medical School has taken a

nosition that they must have the site

by a certain fixed date. I. don't know

if there .is any flexibility in that

date, I don't know at this stage whether

or not ther could be any modicfication

based noon what is thrown across the

table now; now, you have just touched

one fact. Mr. Danzig, says the re-

location problem and plans and every-

thing has been submitted, and this

that and the other thing. I agree with

Junis one hundred per cent; we have to



36

know what the rents are , Coing to be;

the sizes of the" rooms and what they

will be. If we don t t know a nyt'sing

about them, we. are moving out of one

getto to a beautiful freakin stone

getto with some grass. Apply some

time to the Pro' lem and I think the

best way to reach a resolution to this

problem is to take this deadline that

we are talking about and work backwards

here. I subscribe to the metixod of

the plan that you layed down that we

continue to negotiate, we continue

to talk, to try to establish when we

can have a hearing in line with the

Medical School date. If there is no

flexibility on the date that is another

story. • To continue with this type of

hearing with the reservation that if

we run into something there that is

insurmountable that the hearing will be

cancelled and post poned until a date is



37

reached.

CHANCELLOR fUNGA: Yr. Kennedy,

I appreciate your comments. It is

precisely what we have in mind. We

don't want to put any pressure on any-

body to give anything or make it without

sufficient information which makes it

clear that we must know how we are

proMressing so we have thetirue to con-

struct the facility in order to accept

students next fall. In addition, all

the factors in the p icture, even day

students in the I.edical School who are

receiving. grants from the Federal Govern

rient on the basis tha t they could not

say with assurance to A.T.W.

	

'd i ving

the grant, they had a site. If they

had a site, there would have '_een con-

tention. They have gotten the ;r^nt

sometime in March, and I am saying we

have hushed the flexibility of this

school with respect to accreditation,



33

problems and '!atters like research.

In other words, we do have a time which

1 would say is more er less ten Cays

to two weeks "rom here by which a dec i s i c n

has to be made. Yes, it is vital for

the 1'edical School. Ue also hal'e' a

legal requirement. There has been

su r"71.cient notice given from ths hear-

ing some ten drys ago --

YR. DANZIG : It has been r ---ore like

seventeen days.

CHANCELLOR DtUNGAN : -- so if you

work back from seven da'ys, let's say

from the middle of March, you can readily

see why it is important again without

giving up the right to correct the

whole thing. It has to be sor..etime in

this period, and that is why it is

important to make a decision to make

enough progress to permit it to go on.

Nr. Kennedy.

MR. KENNEDY: Based on some of the



39

things heard duri nc the general di s-

cuss3on, It is basically the authorities

speaking for the Medical School have

set a date for the middle of March as

far as the date for the hearing, is that

it?

. CHANCE LnR DT NGAN: I would like

to hear. Mr. Beal t s comments on how

the flexibility of the time schedule

affects this. Mr. Beal.

MR. WHEELER: I would like to know,

and please tell us why the deadline for

this is so urgent?

MR. TEAL : Exactly this: If we

are going to have this school we cannot

hold these students up; this is the

time these students apply and get accept

and plan their education. They cannot

postpone and still get into an alternati

school. There is a time element here

whether they are going to stay in this

school or go to greener pastures. I

d

e



L
said, New York is seeming to get going,

Stoneybrook; Massachusetts, Pennsylvania

as here show all of the States around

us do not seem to have this problem.

And, therefore, we are at a disadvantage

There is no question we have these

problems, the continuing problem of

accreditation, the problems of actually

staying open. So that I think the date

now is set that on March the 11th there

is going to be a Board of Trustee meetin,,

at which time there is to be some de-

cision node one way or the other. There

are alternates b e ing planned, alternate

nights being planned at this hearing,

but again we cannot let this thing go

by any longer. I have a feeling what

we are doing, what we have read in the

paoers recently, .that a person has to

die on the street before somebody roes

to their help, And then there is talk

which is misinterrepted that they were



the ones that caused this person to die.

Mr. Kennedy, the time is past, The

deadline was once . set for December 13,

the White House asked to extend it for

two weeks, end here =;e are two months

later and we cannot extend it any longer

Just a general ror ..:.ient, Mr. Chancellor.

I have been on the Board of Trustees

since the t-ate took over the College,

I don't think the Board wh 4 ch called

for as much tire and as much. attention

as this one, I have, along with other

trustees, have given of myself willingly

that I can speak for the entire Board

when I say the Board as a whole is

anxious to have this School come to

Newark. But, the Board's primary re-

sponsibility is to deliver to the State

of New Jersey a live healthy college

of medicine to serve the entire State.

This is not the New Je rsey Medical.

School, this is a State Medical School.



We want to bring it here so we can

serve more people that way than anywhere

I am pleased we have reached thi.s :p oint

of agreement, We have recommended to

the residents to ascertain where they

are going to locate theselvec. I think

we have general agreement on the

desirability of having the School there.

If we can t t come to some point where

we can move forward and complete the

job without having all this tied down

for the last instance, I think the

patient will die. We now have a good

faculty; we now have e good student

body, and we cannot hold on to much

longer because the whole problem is

if we are ever going to have the State

Medical School in Newark.

A 30NYI:OuS : At the last meeting

there was no transcript being made of

the proceedings. Hcwever, I would

just like .to say something relating



43

to the whole question of the relocation

plan for the purposes of the record.

And why then it becomes a very important

aspect of these negotiations. One, it

was determined at the last meeting

which I had no knowledge prior to the

last meeting, that with respect to the

residents and the tenants of the area

which the Medical School is to be

located, these tenants and residents

including the ones we have already

included, who are still there, these

persons who were never advised whether

they should remain and not move until

such time as this whole package of

land was approved by the office of HUD

and by all other Federal people, and

by the State and by the C ity, and that

they could be reimbursed by moving.

I have yet to understand whether or

not' and when the residents who are still

there, those few will be advised by



44

letter that they can be there until

such time as March 11th. This problem

I have not had the answer to as yet.

Secondly, I would just like'to say it

seems to me that first we have to under-

stand that in terms of relocation we

are into a different kind of situation

than we were prior to this. This

situation relates to the Medical School,

because there is a party to these

negotiations that in terms of the prior

history of the Medical . School, and that

is the community. They did not re.cogniz

the problem and what it is about. Now,

it may very well be to late in the stage

as it relates to the Medical School

ever going through. The problem as to

how it should have been done in the

first place., was to get to it. It seems

to me, as, Doctor Cadmus agreed the next

meeting of the Medical School is March

11th, I assume from this statement and

e



.5

without wasting to much time it was

based insofar as to the time of holding

the public hearing. I ' assume, Doctor

Cadmus, is allowing time and he can

answer me if I am wrong, that the

. Medical Board of Trustees must know at

this next meeting that of March the 11th

just when the public hearing will be..

DOCTOR CADMUS: The title of land

must be guaranteed.

CHANCELLOR DUNGA N : What they have

to know, is whether they have a site.

If they don't have the site then they

have to make alternative plans in fair-

ness to the students and to the faculty.

If they don't have the site by that

meeting they don't have a Medical School

in Newark. I.think that is it..

MR. WHEELFR: Question. I want

to know from Doctor Cadmus if the March

11th public notice has been made through

the Housing Authority, that the public



11.6

will be held? That is the last step

before acquisition. Would this be

sufficient in terms of what he is

talking about, Doctor Cadmus?

DOCTOR CADI!US:: I think we cannot

trust promises.

MR. WHEELER: It doesn t t. I has

to do with the act --

DOCTOR CADMUS: I would say that

is An insufficient guarantee.. This is

a trustee decision not an administrative

decision. I would say, that speaking

for the faculty, they would certainly

not accent the deadline pushed another

day, because they have been waiting

since December of 1965 for a new site.

MR. iTHE:^LER : Could I ask a que s tio;

You would make plans at that time to

go to another p lace?

DOCTOR CA.DMUS : The trustees, I

do not --

MR. WILLIAMS: I would like to



47

clear that up, just from the standp oint

of there going to plan to go to some-

where else in the State of New Jersey,

that it would take twice, three or

four times to set up a site and acquire

it, set up a building as it would to

get compliance to this.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : I would like

to make a point here. I can't say

certainly, but I can say it with under-

standing after discussion with the

Federal Government.peoole who are in-

volved in the financing of this School,

if the School dosen't go in Newark

there will be no School in New Jersey.

That is the issue that all of us have.

MR. WILLIAMS : And that was the

reason I raised. If we could have it

op erative, the process of ' the public

hearing by the time the Board of

Trustees meets on March 11th, would

that be sufficient in terms of the last



t^.8

step prior to acquisition of this land?

DOCTOR CADMUS: Mr. Chisoln, would

you want to comment on this?

MR. CHISOLN: I merely want to

outline the Wood-Cohen letter that

has been issued. We have not addressed

ourselves to the.Deparment of Housing

and the City. The residents in Newark

who are concerned with the Model City

program, that the City participation

structure p roposed previously is in-

adequate, it must be restructured,

We do not accept that ' restructure has

to take Place prior to it. Hpwever,

in order to make a decision to make

a determination in connection with the

Wood-Cohen letter, we do have to know

that some of the machinery has been

developed and some understanding has

been reached with respect to the re-

solution of that problem.

CHANCELLOR DUN GAN : To the very



principle that the resolution re p resents

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, I am

going to-then address myself to the

process by making it crystal clear

for all persons here. I want to read

from a letter sent to Mr. Danzig,. deal-

ing with the whole problem and the lette

speaks for itself. But, the letter also

tells why we take a }cosidon that we

have as it relates to the relocation.

Further re presentation to the letter

of authority of January 12. The letter

is from the Philadelphia Regional Office

and it is a follow-up letter received

by Mr. Sharig(phonetic spelling) of

that of"ice telling him to move. The

date of the letter was January 29, 1968.

Part one is for the application for

loans and grants for the Medical Center

N.Y.R. 196, New Jersey, for the author-

ity of January 12, 1968. The following

r



50

clarifications are provided regarding

the processing of the Fairmont project,

N.J.R. 72. Plan amendment and part

one application of the Medical School,

N.V.R. 196. The proposed amendments

to the Fairmont project, Urban Renewal

project, the application for the Medical

School for Urban Renewal project,-

presented conrr_on grievances which must

be resolved to I?UD f s satisfaction before

the R-196 part one application is

approved by IT TJD, or eleven and one half

acres of the plan R-972 is conveyed to

the New Jersey College of Medicine.

Now, it is on that basis that we insist

upon the documents from Mr. Beckett.

It flows from Mr. Beckett t s office.

MR. KENNEDY: We in the audience

get word once in a while in regard to

the letter that Mr. Williams just spoke

about, it says upon the a pproval to

satisfy IUD. I have heard from Mr.



51

Beckett, and from this gentleman, and

it seem to me that they are sneaking

about this type of a pproval that we

are talking about and we are trying

to get. I want to raise a question

in regard to this, I think if the

Medical School comes into the City of

Newark there will be probably some .

tax amendment --

CiL4NCELLOR DUNGAN: Taxes?

MR. KENNEDY: Now, the reason I

raise the very point that we are talking

about representation of the people . that

are going'to move from the area, and

I think they need representation, and

I think every bit of the problems in-

volved should be ironed out before we

can move ahead with it. But this prob-

lem has border implications, it has

implications to the people that moved

out of the area and go buy a home some



52

place else. They find themselves with

a high tax rate, if the area we are

talking about remains completely vacant.

These people must pay taxes and they

are displaced out of the area, and go

buy homes and have to pay higher taxes.

How, the history of Urban Renewal•I

think, the type of thing that indicates

if we don't have the type of magnetism

in this spot that is needed, we in the

area that stay dormant as the results

of tax rates sky rocketing in these

areas, and there is no reason why they

should. I don't get that story at all.

I think we should know why th i s is

happening. I think, if you are thinking

about the entire community you have to

think what happens in one area can

certainly affect another brother and

sister in another area.

CHANCELLOR DIJNGAN : Thank you, sir.

MR. WILLIAI•TS : I would like to



53

say something. I think we all know

that the Medical.School is committed

to Newark; we are sure that the Medical

School is coming; and I want to assure

everyone else that the Medical School

is coming to Newark. I think we should

all get together and help the orocess

along, now that. the process can be

helped enormously. I think we have to

make intelligent decisions. We have

been saying all along and I think that

the audience can agree, that we have

agreement from the Federal Government

on this point and we should go on from

there.

' CHANCE T ()R DTTgGAN: Junis, the

only point I would like to make is the

seventeen day period between the notice

for the hearing and the hearing actuall;

occurs. I submit that to this group

since I am not on your side of the

table and others in the community would



54

be perfectly willing to continue dis-

cussing these issues.

MR. WHEELER : - That is true.

.CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: The point is

really that we want to advance our

schedule without infringing on the

rights of your side of the table and

the people representing the community.

Mr. Beckett told you you will have that

document in plenty of time to discuss

its contents, to change any of the

characteristics if any are required.

MR. WHEELER: Just one thing .so

we can clear the record. We are pre-

pared to continue negotiations with

resp ect to the items you are talking

about, to continue the talks, however,

we cannot say that tonight that, Mr.

Danzig, has the right to soy it depends

on the receipt of the document from

Mr. Beckett.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : Okay.



55

MR. J!TEL'LR : If we can make it

crystal clear.

	

-

CHANCELLOR DTTNGAN : Let t s have a

break for five minutes.

(Recess)

(After The Recess)

CHA dCELT .OR DU NGAN: Ladies and

gentlemen, shall we begin? Mr. Chisoln,

ladies and gentlemen, one of the seven

points in the Wood-Cohen letter had to

do as Mr. Chisoln so wisely pointed

out, with the question of community

representation .on the Model City set-up,

and I think Mr. Wheeler and Mr. Williams

have some statement they would like to

make especially in view of Mr. Chisoln r s

set-up is unaccepted to the Federal

Government.

MR. WHEELER: In keeping with the

matter placed on the table by Mr. Chisel n,

who is the Model City representative

from Philadelphia HTJD office; and in



56

keepting with the discussions of the

last meeting, the community is prepared

to make the following proposal in an

all out effort to meet the timetable

that has been discussed so much during

these sessions. The plan is preliminary

to the full structuring of the community

representation for the Model , City pro-

gram we will establish an Ad Hoc committ

made up of community representation

and with the City-of Newark. This is

designed to meet the minimum prerequisit

as it relates to the seven conditions.

But, we also want to make it crystal

clear that this committee is Ad Hoc,

this represents a preliminary effort

to the full structuring to community

participation and organization. And,

the other item is from the very beginnin

it be crystal clear that the community

and the City have joint veto rights.

Now, this is our suggestion in terms

e

s



57

of Ad Hoc Committee, and also the

suggestion in the area that is of

primary importance to the community

as it relates to Model Cities. We

strongly feel that in the . best interest

of a strong and intelligent program

that both princip les s'ould have joint

veto rower. We want it to be known

and be. made crystal clear that our

position on th4 s is non-negotiable.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: This is a

matter that everyone recognizes which

is basically between the City and Model

Cities. Part of this discussion is

presumably caused because of the close

association made so by the Wood-Cohen

letter, the subsequent association with

the Ad Hoc group.. Mr. Williams and

Mr. Wheeler, will be through with the

City -- Mr. Malafronte.

MR. MALAr^RONTE : I would like some

information on this plan.



MR. WHEELER: He want further

information. We have come up with a

plan. As a result of this elan we

refer to this City at this juncture

the details of, or any questions you

would want to be ra shed or thrash-out.

MR. CHISOLN: .On behalf of Model

City Association we agree with the

principle of joint veto. You want to

call it joint decision, to tak-e a..more

positive view of the same process, '

I don t t know, you do not want to discuss

any . further the --

MR. WHEELER : What we have simply

stated is to advance a plan, I think

as a result of previous meetings as

a result of the statement put on the

table by Mr. Chisoln, and to keep every

mind fully aware of the fact that we

are a dedicrted committee. If there

has to be negotiations around the clock

to kee p the Medical, School in Newark,



59

we are willing to do it.

CHANCELLOR DUJNGA-d .1 think for

everyone, what the negotiations group

said here in effect, is that we have

interim negotiations until the final

communication is on the desk and has

arrived. Is that a fair way of putting

it?

MR. WHEELER: Yes. As I understand

it, in our discussions with Mr. Chisoln,

and with others, it relates to community

particiapation and responsibility that

no action will be taken until we meet

with the group and thrash-but the

proceedings in terms of setting up this

kind of passport of complete community

participation.

CHANCELT,OR DUNGAN: Correct. That

is what --

MR. BROWNE : That is what was at id

here.

CHANCELLOR DTJNGAN : Yes. Mr. Brown ,



60

when you say this, are you speaking

of this table or are you-speaking about

the "Umbrella Group, " that has been

referred to earlier in this meeting?

MR. WH 7EL'?R: The answer is the

people at this table, and the "Umbrella

Group ." We are developing, and on a

broader basis it would include this

table and others if I

MR. BROWNE: - If I may restate and

redirect a question to Chancellor Dungan

Does that group that you refer to mean

this group or does that group which

there has been reference made to, namely

the "Umbrella Group," which will have

to compromise with members of this

group?

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : I think from.

the very outset of our discussions it

has been very clear to all those in

negotiations and to everyone who has

participated here, we were always talkie



61-

about a broader group than the committee

here. The committee here, made it

clear when we started the discussions.

The committee that they were working

for a long period of time, had some

identificaion as a group representing

the community, as well as we accepted

the representation of the community

whether in Model City, with respect

to health facilities in any other

aspect of the matter, including Mr.

Danzig's land use and re-use problems.

That a broader representing group would

be formed.

MR. LdHTEL?R: That is a character-

ization.

NR. KENNEDY: That doesn't satisfy

me. Sure I agree there should be a

broader group. There is a mechanism

for setting up such a group, and it

should be udner discussion. One thing

that puzzled me a little when you were



63

talking eerier about the community.

I don't know whether you are talking

about the boundary lines, people who,

live in Newark, people who live in

Montclair, people who live elsewhere.

I would like to have some idea how

you do and how the i .odel City's admis-

trator would use in extend thg this

broad basic committee? The Ad Hoc

Committee seems to have somewhat of a

foundation for this type of expense

which may be desirable. But I would --

CHANCELLOR DT TNGA : Sir, I cannot

tell you whet will happen. I would

guess that the ?IUD representatives

together with the City.authori.ties

would be having an open kind of City,

which would be formed precisely to

that mechanism. But I am not in a

p osition to describe it.

MR. KENNEDY: SO, I don't want

basically the City to have the ri,ht.



64-

This is the City administration, and

I don't want them to have the right

to determine a committee for me.

CTTANCELT,OR DUNG AN : I do --

HR. KENNEDY: I don't want anyone

to :ha ve • tha t right. T thought probably

in exneriences in deii''er.ting their

problam in Model City, in trying to see

how they are going to c-nforra, bringing

up the rnxi um feasible participation,

would hove the r-:ethods that, I don't

know, T'm not suggesting how to bring

this about.

CHANCELLOR DUI GAN : I understand.

MR. KENNEDY: But that many people

can have the representation.

MR.- HILL: rtr. Kennedy,.the plan

is that we are not only this task force

at large. The people within the target

area would also include any groups

with the total community. You know the

effect had by this; and the City would



not have the total power to select

these individuals. Although the City

would have some re2resentati.on, s-.o:ri°

representative on there.

- CUANC .LLOR DUI:GAT: Yes, that is

clear.

MR. TJ LL: This would not be a

group tha t w ofold be dictated by the

-City, but this group will be there with

.the community and other represented

groups.

CHANC77Lr,OR TTPTGAN: Since Mr,

Chisoin raised the question initially

of TT-'D's disapproval of pTeadvante ;e

arranrenents, I presume, all arrange-

ments that are made between the comrnuri t,

and Ad Hoc and the City to satisfy t?:at

it is a truly represented organization,

I leave in r. Chisoln's

ANONYMOUS: The model is part of

the "Umbrella Group."

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : The "Umbrella



66

Group," was not snecT ffically or in-

dicated to the Model City project.

It was directed pry rrmrily to the ques do

of the Fairmont project to the twenty.

acres, and from which Mr. Danzig and

the community would select people to

work land re-use in our R-6

ANONYMOUS : Who- is well Informed?

How is the people in the community

going to know when? Row would you

know who is going to say the community -

CTTANCEL r,OR DTT'•TGAN: Sir, if you

are getting back to the problem we, had

at the beginning of this hearing, who

may speak for the community, as I

pointed out at an earlier hearing it

is very difficult under the circumstance

to know who does. Now, I don T t have

a plan, but I suggest that ths is up

to the community leaders to decide it

in the "Umbrella Group."

ANONYMOUS : I am saying where it



67

is going, where and by whom.

CHANCELLOR DUTNGA N : I understand.

MR. WILLIAMS: Decause of the

time factor, because of the time factor

that has been imposed to a certain

extent, we of the negotiating team, we

as a group of people have continued .

to come back to this room for meetings,

cannot definately say, I don t t think

at this juncture who will be on that .

"Umbrella Group." Now, the "Umbrella

Group," as it was first desired was

in a different area. In the Medical

School area, some relationship with

Model City. I am sure now in terms

of exactly who decides the "'Umbrella

Group.," as TTr.. Wheeler, said, we of

the negotiating team are seeking out

right now ehen we are not at these

meetings . some broad basic community

group.

MR. WHEELER: When I answered this



b8

gentlemen at previous meetings, this

charge was given to us by the community.

When I say by the community, the people

who rep resented .other than those who

are sitting; at the negotiating table

on' the basis to this p oint for working

on a way to satisfy all of the community

As Junis made the previous statement

the idea through this is that a group

will be called together to thrash-out

problems that have -?eveloped. But the

thing that I want r.ade crystal clear,

the Ad Hoc Committee a preliminary,

item, and preliminary because of the

timetable that everyone is concerned

with.

CHANCT LLOR DUNGAN : I understand.

I think I can assure you sir, because

of the involvement of the State up to

this point particularly, community

affairs, they will be working with this

group as well as other groups in various



69

committees to insure, just as the

Federal Government, with respect to

Model Cities; community representation

on Model City, there will be a truly

representative group, that "Umbrella .

Group."

ANONYMOUS: I think I heard Mr.

Danzig say, and if not nr. Danzig I

want to get --

CHANCELLOR DUITGAld : I don e t think

Mr. Danzig, said anything about this.

MR. WHEEL-R: When we started

that meeting it was behind us, history.

CHANCELLOR DTNGAN• We agreed that

the basis of our discussions, assuming

we were going to have a truly represent-

ative group,

MR. FARRIS : To my knowledge, and

in fact, we have p resent with us some

members of the Board of Trustees,.that

I would like to direct a question to

some members of the Board of Trustees



70

or to Doctor Cadmus. I think that

it is germane to . the Medical School,

because of the fact that historically

the Medical and Dental Schools through-

out the country have had a. quota some

time in regard to ethnic groups. We

would like to have this appear on the

record, your reply to my qu eston. What

is going to be the attitude of this

New Jersey College of Medicine and

Denistry, in regard to enrollment of

members of minority groups. What would

it be?

DOCTOR CADMUS: Mr. Chairman, per-

haps first of all may I just say and

ask those . who are. connected with the

Medical School to raise you hands, just

to know how many people we have here

in this group showing interest. Then,

may I say, that is a fair question.

I would be delighted to answer that

question. This School, although I have



71

only been here for about a year from

its beginning had absolutely no dis-

crimination in race, creed or color.

We have negro students, we.have negro

faculty, we h've a negro administrator

coming April 1st. I was talking to

Mr. Templeton before the meeting, .and

saying whPt burns us up is that this

School took on people on the basis of

quality and not on race from the very

beginning. And then, recently, we have

had those members many of them weaned

away from us to other medical schools,

because they were looking at the --

let me --

MR. MOORE: I know I am being

rude, but at that expense, would you

just say whether or not there will be

a quota some time or not?

DOCTOR CADMUS : There has never

been --

MR.. MOORE: Will there; or will



72

there not be one?

DOCTOR CADr US : There will never

be and --

ANONYMOUS: One other thing you

should answer. Will the New Jersey

Medical and Denistry School, will they

actively form an amendment to get negro

students in there, in this institution?

DOCTOR CADIUUS : We have offered

three negro students this year, and

they left because they got in schools

they felt were better. One student

is holding with us, unless he will, be

washed out.

MR. MOORE : You still have not

answered my question.

ANONYMOUS: You will lower the

standards?- .

DOCTOR CADi iUB-: No, no, no, that

is not the-question.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : I would like

to put my chancellor hat on here a



73

minute.

ANONYMOUS: Let me just clarify,

rather I want to retract the 'lowering

of the standards.

CHANCEL 7,O R DTTNGAN : Let me just

say the Medical School, like other

institutions of higher education in

this State comes under the general

supervision of the Board of Higher

Education, of the Department of Higher

Education, which I happen to be the

head. Ican assure the people in this

room, not only there will be no lowering

of standards, but this School and every

other school in the public institution

in the State does not allow disc.rimina-`

tion and no quotas. More than that, -

we have a specific effort underway,

and we will pursure this effort to get

more negro men and women to move into

the field of higher education.. I don't

think anymore clarity has. to be repre-



sented. The views of the trustees and

the administration have been stated.

Shall we move on?

ANONYFOTJS : There is a facility

of the Medical School at the East Orange

Veterans Hospital. How many people are

there?

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: What is the

question?

DOCTOR CADNUS: Mr. Chairman, may

I give Doctor Levy the full benefit

of these r:eetings. Doctor Albert Levy

is the acting professor of surgery,

chief of 7rofessional services at the

East Orange Veterans Hospial, on the

Federal payroll. 7e is the chief medics:

officer of that institution. Therefore,

I am sure he is qualified to answer

any questions you may have.

DOCTOR LEVY: That is a reasonable

question.

. ANONYMOUS : How many people are



at the East Orange Veterans Hospital,

the facility of the Medical School?

DOCTOR LT?VY: 1 don't have the

records with me, T would say between

60 and 80. I can also tell you that

we absoulutely do notdiscriminate

because of race, creed or color or

any other matter. We hire people that

are compotent, that have skills which

we need.

A NONYi"OITS : How many of them are

negro?

DOCTOR LEVY .I don't know, I

don't have the record With me.

ANONY;:OT"S: My question is, how

many p eople, black people that work

there have you personally seen?

DOCTO R L 771Y: One this afternoon.

Three or four a day. My girl sees

about --

ANONYMOUS: I said, how many have

you seen?



76

DOCTOR LEVY: I would say about

half of then.

CITANC 7 LL R DUNGA N: I understand

your concern. I think I gather from

the discussion and your comment you

think there is some positive discrimin-

ation, and not a sufficient effort being

made there at the hospital.

AT?OIrf? OUS : We are certainly very .

interested in this.

DOCTOR LEVY: The V.A. Hospital

is a Federal institution. All the

employment is done according to the

federal procedure. Incidentally, half

of our employees are negroes; and many

of our service chiefs are negro. The

Federal Government has alloted to the

State certain p arts of the building

which are supervised and staffed by

the School. The Federal Government

policy doesn't pertain to this.

HR. tr.ILLIATS: I think that raises



77

e very imnorta nt question. This has

just been brought to your a ttentin n

in relation to the Medical School.

I would like at this time in this very

situation, and others will want some

further time to consider our p art in

this. I would like to say by Monday,

we can have a definate re ply, after

taking into consideration other pertin-

ent things with relation to the Medical

School. I say, we must have further

time to discuss and discover other

policies that maybe indicative of the

kinds of things that my go on in the

Medical School; ana finally get to

a more permanent form.

CHACTLLOR DUNGAN: Okay.

MR. STERN: You are talking about

the p resent policy of the Medical School

MR. WILLIAMS : As it relates to

the future.

MR. STERN: As evidence for any

7



78

future policy?

CHANCELLOR DUNG AN: Okay.

MRS. JOHNSON: May I say something?

I have worked for the 1'edical School

for the last four months. I am the

secretary to one of the deans. I met.

him about five yars ago when I made

a radio reserch project which was a

division of the Department of Health.

We were working at East Orange, when

I applied for that School. I went to

the employment office of the School,

and I was told to wait outside. The

employment office called this office

and said that I seemed qualified for

the job but that I was negro. Ap parent];

the office didn't care, so I went to

_the office and I was interviewed, they

said, they would liet me know;- and

finally I was hired. A few weeks after

that the girls were going to lunch and

they asked me if I wanted .to go along.



79

I said no because I live only five

minutes away and Iwanted to go home

and eat with my children. Finally,

they told me each one of them was asked

if they would eat with a negro. Finally,

'I said I would give them a break and

eat lunch with them, I worked in this

other place for four or five yesrs and

during that time I met, Doctor Grady.

And when that project was closed, Doctor

Grady asked me to come with him as his

secretary. He was taking a position

as Dean at East Orange. He was also

chief of `pathology at East Orange

Veterans Hospital. I only worked there,

I didn't fill out an application until

I worked ther a couple of months; he

actually hired me at a very fair salary,

and the work is nice. But, when I

worked for this other place, The jersey

Medical School, at least once a week

every Thursday the doctors in pathology



80

were very nice to me, in fact, we all

went out to lunch 'almost every Thursday.

In fact, there is a case which I would

like to tell you about in which, Doctor

Grady, and other doctors tried very

hard to get a draft deferment for a

lab technician, a negro who we needed.

As it turned out, he did go into the

Army. But, he. continued working for

the School on a part-time basis. There

were many negroes, I don't know how

many. As far as the people in Newark

are concerned, I have lived in Newark,

I think they cannot do to much. I don't

feel their questions are impolite.

They have every reason to find out what

is going on. I say, we cannot relax.

We know past history and they still

think we can relax. All the questions

they ask, I don't blame them. They

did't trust anybody. But I want you

to trust the School which is only most



f31

interested in education. And, the

School is fair when it comes to employ-

ment.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Thank you,

Mrs. Johnson. I think no one, black

and white would say there is not a

problem in terms of employment. We

have made efforts in some of our dis-

cussions and in future discussions to

insure the people who are trained that

they can take a job in this complex;

all kinds, from top to bottom. I

can guarantee everyone that such a thing

is what we will do, the Medical School

and everyone associated with this pro-

ject.

MR. CUNNINGHAM: Tow does that

differ from what the blacks have re-

ceived?

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Mr. Cunningham.

I agree. .1 can see when you say you

have a promise, but you must believe



82

this promise.

MRS. EPPERSON : Mr. Chancellor,

ladies and gentlemen, I would like to

say on behalf of the Medical School

we wouldn't be here if, Doctor Cadmus,

Mr. Smith, and all the fine people at

this Medical School hadn't consented

all these many months we have been

trying to reach a settlement, but now

that we have met each other finally we

can het down to business;' we do hop e

we can trust them. And, Iwant to ask

Doctor Cadmus if he'will do a little

job for me very soon; take somebody's

good heart out and give it to me.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Shall we move

on to the question we are --

MR. WILLIAMS: Labor.

CHANC EL-JOR DIThTGAN : We are, not

talking about the construction problem.

-- employment at the construction site,

excuse me.



83

MR. WILLIAMS: We had a meeting

yesterday to talk about the labor

situation. Point number five on the

commission from the last meeting or

point three whichever it was. There

was a lot of confusion to tell you the

truth. However, we have a statement

to make but we. would like five minutes

to get the details worked out.

CHANCELLOR DTJNGAN : • I think tha t

will be in order. We are trying to

move ahead,,and a five minute recess

wouldn't hurt. We will have a five

minute recess.

(Recess)

(After The Recess)

CHANCELLOR DLTNGAN: Mr. Williams.

MR. WILLIAMS : This statement that

I am going to read represents a pre-

liminary statement. It is by no means

an indication on the part of the negoti-

ating team that substantial agreement



has been met on point five raised in

the memorandum placed in Chancellor

Dunga n t s hands at . the last meeting.

I refer to page four of that memorandum.,

paragraph 2-A, and it t s in relation to

that. And, I am reading from our

statement, "The State of New Jersey

agrees to conduct p re-contract award

reviews with each contractor and (sub-

contractor-) who bid for the construction

contract of the New Jersey College

of Medicine and Dentistry. If it is

determined that bidding contractor

fails to employ a significant number

of minority gorop persons in all build-

ing- and contstruction trade (or._fail

to so employ them within a reasonable

time) it will reject the bids and seek

skilled minority craftsmen elsewhere.

A community renresentative to be selected

thereby shall participate in all such

pre-contract award reviews and decisions.



This agreement is pursuant to New

Jersey State executed Number 21. The

Federal Government through its con-

tracting agency (H.U.' ".) agrees to

a similar committment pursuant to

Presidential executed order Number

11246. " I want to repeat, this is

preliminary by no means substantial

compliance. Things will take place in

future time, very reasonable time.

MR. WHE'yLER: Let it show for

the record, it is the kind of effort

the community has been putting forth

throughout these negotiations, with

one reason in mind, to bring the Medical

School to the City of Newark.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Okay.

MR. LOFTON : Chancellor,, the

question that I would like to raise in

terms of since this whole proceeding

is characterized in the negotiation

session, the statement read by Mr.



86

Williams, being a preliminary statement

as put forth by the community represent-

atives in terms of this negotiating

team. My question is in terms of

power of making that decision. Whether

we can find that statement acceptable

or not.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: We do.

MR. WHEELER: Then the preliminary

statement is on the record as acceptable

by that statement?

CHANCELLOR DIJNGAN: Yes. Where

do we go next?

MR. CFISOLN: I would assume I

understand you are working for HUD,

specifically in the Model City, but

as you understood the statement Mr.

Williams read, I take it you would

think acceptable to the FederAI Govern-

ment, insofar as involvement in respons-

ibility here, it seems to be a statement

of the executed order. I think it



87

is basically accep table, I would have

to . check. I would he glad to do so.

But obviously, HUD has responsibility

in that segment. I don ! know, I am

not in a position to answer with respect

to the composition of the pre-award

committee.

CIIM;CELT_:OR DUNGAN: I think there

was a statement of the pre-award time.

MR. WI1E1LER: Chancellor, I think

at this juncture th a t we would enumerate

those things that re present positive

progress of these serious negotiations.

CHANCELLOR DLNGAN : I think that

is a very excellent idea.

MR. WHEELER : I would have started

with the fact that substantial agreement

has been reached on condition A, as it

relates to the principles, namely

condition A of the Wood-Cohen letter,

nar•:ely the Board of Trustees, the State,

the City of Newark and the community



88

and that acreage, that acreage is only

fifty seven and nine tenths acres of

land. And, at this juncture, I would

like to direct the question to Doctor

Cadmus as it relates to the fifty seven

point nine acres. Question: Is part

of the agenda for the meeting of March

11th; to be the rya tt ,r of vitiating

for one hundred thirty nine and one

hundred ten new contracts for fifty

seven and nine tenths acres of land?

.DOCTOR . Cl-‘ DIUS: I would, I- would

imagine if the intent got to that point

they may not. I don't know what is

going to ha^pen. If it's available,

I am sure this will occur, if it's

not available no point of going through

the act.

CHANCELLOR D UNGAN: I think the

answer to the question if the trustees

vitiate the previous quest ion and assign

fifty seven point nine acres for the



89

medical facility, a ssuming substantial

agreement has heen reached by that

time, and the thing is worked out.

MR. WILLIAMS : Then we can very

well look at the Wood-Cohen letter as

being satisfactory with substantial

agreement as it relates to those in-

volved in the negotiations?

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Correct.

MR. W-ILLIAMS : Now to move on.

We have established in the mechanism

that relates at least to the preliminary

matter, the community representations,

in terms of Model City program, with

the understanding that p roblems will

be worked out between the principals

of the community and the City, since

the aspect deals between those two

principals.

MR. CHIS f LN: With the narticipatio

of HUD.

MR. WHEELER: Of course, Mr. Chisol

a



90

This means another step toward progress

that we talked about. Thirdly, it is

our understanding based on many months

of negotiations, we have brought the

whole problem of the relocation plan

to that point where the person respons-

ible for finally submitting this docu-

ment to the Newark rousing Authority,

the State representatives and to the

community, will be consummated next

week.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : Correct, I r.

Wheeler.

MR. PECKF TT : Yes.

MR. WTTEELER: So, this also

represents a area of progress.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Moving on,

we have put into the record this morning

a p reliminary statement dealing with the

many problems associated with jobs,

trnining and inall aspects of pre-

training and on-site-training, etc.



91

Which is another indication of the

progress of the negotiating team. In

summing up, it would seem at this very

juncture, there is a responsibility

on the part of the Board of Trustees,

and its President to tell the community

if there has been substantial progress

made so that they can be aware of the

fact that some substantial progress

is being made. They want to know if

the College is coming to Newark. The

kind of positive statement on behalf

of them I don t t remember being made,

We want to make sure that all principals

involved are prepared to review and be

flexible in terms of the consummation

of all of us.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: Well, I would

say that perhaps Doctor Cadmus would

like to comment on that.

DOCTOR CADMUS : I would say, speaking

from my point of view, that all of us



92

gratified by the prop.ress that has been

made. I do think ss I said earlier

in ther morning, we are to the point

of view of this substantial progress

not agreement, but pro; res s where we

could in good faith move ahead. From

their point to set a date of the hearing

in view of this substantial progress,

I really cannot see where anyone is

losing anything on either side of the

table, particularly up to the time

the hearing is consummated and even

after that period, since it is a period

in which complaints can be made and

further hearings can be held.

ER. WEEELER: The whole point of

my summary was to make certain at this

juncture that there is responsibility

on the part of the Board, and the agency

dealing withthe areas of compliance,

I am talking about loss of research.

What I am suggesting is an a pproach that



93

really can be met, and to get back that

lost committment on that building that

was being reached by Doctor Cadmus,

and remove any fear factor.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN: I really think

that it may be fine for all of us here,

but what about those under the most

fear. Let t s deal with what you talked

about. People are dealing with-the

problem, do you have a site? The

answer is you don't have a site, We

have a nice, good atmosphere, we. have

substantial progress. You don't have

the site, when you have a site; _talk

about the research.

MR. WHEEL R: Chancellor, my

answer to that as you deal with the

Federal Government or any other public

agency, nothing is so black or so white,

there are all shades of gray. I am

directing myself to these shades of

gray, All I am suggesting there is hope



ther is never blade or white as a result

of that. I am merely sugesti ng in

the interest of keeping the T"edical

School in Newark, if the Board will

listen to what I have just mentioned,

we can possibly if ther is a remote

chance get the accreditation.

DOCTOR CADMUS: We will do every-

thing we possibly can to keep the

College in Newark. But we must retain

the faculty and students, we need and

must get grants, and finally, accredit-

ation. But we h=ve taken this to the

accreditation authoritya nd telling

them we are getting a site in Newark,

but they are beginning to doubt it.

And, while we will-use this present .

good atmosphere to the utmost, we

cannot guarantee it will be good in

operating, or obtaining grants, or

obtaining good faculty or retaining

accreditation. We must come to a point



where the trustees have the property.

CH TTCELLOR DUNGAN : May I ask the

neotiating team not to put anyone on

the spot, just give all concerned

on this side of the table and the

representatives of the Medical School

a- fair chance. bihile I think we will

get to the point when substantial

progress becomse substantial agreement.

Now, assuming there will be substantial

agreement on these points, there would

be a continuing of negotiations on

many of the details that have been

going on for many months.

MR. Wi EELER: Chancellor, in light

of the positive atmosphere we have

tonight, the best description of the

right time is reasonable time.

DOCTOR SULLIVAN: The basis for

this statement is that- the research

building has been lost. There advisory

comrittee which meets next Monday and



96

Tuesday, is that right, Doctor Cadmus?

Who will make a reccomendation to the

national advisory council with regard

to a research building? Since we at

this point are not able to give a

positive statement about the idea that

a site has been actually obtained, and

we can go ahead, they have in a sense

advised us that they cannot act on this.

Now, if I understand Mr. Wheeler t s
question, he is really saying on the

basis of positive atmosphere that we

have, the points that have geen gained

here in an outline in summary, we would

be able to take the work of the trustees

and be able to write a letter or consult

that advisory committee and tell them

about the changed atmosphere and tell

them this thing is going to come off

within a fixed time so that we might

be faced Monday or Tuesday with this

. deadline. This give a little flexibility



97

This is essentially, Mr. Wheeler,

1 . WHTLL :,R: Basically, I would

think a nan of the di t3 notion of the

Chsirman of the Board of Trustees of

the New Jersey College of Medicine and

Dentistry, writing such a letter or

his signature would go a long way in

saving that building.

DOCTOR SLTLL IVAN : May I confer

for 'just a minute? One other thing

in terms of substantial agreement. We

are very anxious to 'snow if this also

means you are drooping the lawsuit?

And, we are asking another'\question,

which is one --

MR. WILLIAMS : Do you really want

an answer to that?

DOCTOR SULLIVAN: I think it is

a fair question, and deserves an answer.

MR. WILLIAMS : Do you really want

us to anwer that?

DOCTOR SULLIVAN : All we want is



98

a yes or no answer.

MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. If there is

substantial a7reer.,ent in accordance.

with the Wood-Cohen letter, there will

be no lawsuit.

CHANCELLOR D .TC AN: It seems to

me, as Mr. Wheeler has reviewd this

progress made thus far, it seems to

me the real critical element that

remains is the resolution of the re----

location p roblem which is a critical

one. I think that human lives in this

area, is one of the things which must

he resolved, which is salient as far

as the negotiating committee --

MR. WILLIAMS : Also, I might point

out our Model City position has been

set forth. We did have one specific

division which we spoke-7-

MR. WHEELER: He said yes he did

in the whole area of joint review.

CITANCELLOR DUNGAN: So the critical



99

thing here is the resolution as I see

it, the relocation matter which really

rests with Mr. Beckett coming back

with his document, end an opportunity

for the committee to review it.

MR. WILLIAMS: There are other

matters besides the relocation problem.

We are still concerned with things that

hinge on the first confinement that we

discussed, namely the hiring policies

which we will discuss; the health that

we will discuss. All of this has to

be taken care of.

CHANCELLOR DUNGAN : Right.

?•. WHEELER: That there will be

continuing negotiations.

CHANCELLOR D 'NGAN : What I would

suggest in order that we have some

good progress made, I think using

some committees to work together in orde

to get to the solutions of theseproblems.

What I would like to suggest that we



100

get Mr. Beckett's document as soon as

he can get it to us. I would like to

suggest holding another meeting on

Monday night with the objective I hope

of having that document in our hands

prior to Monc1

	

night, or certainly by

Monday to give the cor_mittee ample

opportunity to examine it.

MR. WTT"ELR : Well, I certainly -

subscribe to the -meeting on Monday.

MR. WILLIAMS: You leave that

decision of the report to Mr. Beckett?

MR. WI?TETFR: We will meet on

Monday.

CFANCELr:OR DUNGAN: I will suggest

that we hold a meeting on Monday.

M. WILLIAMS: I just want to make

a statement. I feel as though we are

putting. this whole problem into one

side. In terms of the emergency of

the Medical School, I think it is

very important that we shift standards



101

at some point. I t'h 1 n'•, it is incumbent

to recognize your emergency. We as the

representatives of 'the community must

produce. I am saying what we have done

so far is substanttal progress. I am

p ositive we all want-the Medical School.

We also want to get something for the

people of the community. But everyone

has lot to remember we have an Interest

that we are attempting to p rotect. This

is the first tine in the history that

this has ever ha ppened. We are pro-

tecting these interest right down to

the last letter of that law in the

Wood-Cohen letter. I want to get that

straight. As I said, people ought

sometimes to learn to live with people

of the neighborhood who would like to

get some new housing, get better jobs.,,

and get '1ecent medical care. We are

not going to give that up. sie are --

CHANCELLOR a'TTCAN: I want to clear



102

up with respect to all concerned,-the

Medical School, community, negotiating

group and everyone concerned. I

understand why you want to hold that

position. I would also submit to you

we have made substantial progress here.

I would also like to submit to you,

I don't think anyone is asking you to

give un any ri;hts that you are entitled

to as human beings..

MR. WILLIAP:IS : I want to push my

point a litter farther, for future

negotiations. The pressure will be put

on us. I think the people should have

houses to live in, people should have

decent medical care and to be assured

of where they are going to live. We

are living in the conditions that we

are, we have to do this as the represent

atives of the community interest.

CHANCEL-,OR DU JAN : Okay, I agree

with yOu.



103

DOCTOR SULLIVAN: I agree with

what you are saying Yr. Williams. I

also want to say there comes a time --

we would like to be part of the neighbor-

hood and help you fight for whatever

your needs may-be. I told ?r. Wheeler

at one point and I want to reiterate

here, we are' perfectly clear there: is

a good reason you should not trust

us anymore than you trust anyone else;

you don't have to like me in order to

work with rye, and if you give is a

chance to work as neighbors, it will

test out and we will see whether it

works out. But, if we do I suspect there

will be arguments many times which we

will have to work out. In time, maybe

we will be a partnership.

MR. WHEELER: Just one addition

in support of Yr. William's position,

with a partnership, our only concern

is that we are not silent.



CHANCELLOR DLNGA::: May we make

one thing clear which will be helpful.

If we could schedule a working group

meeting to work on the health services

issue, who ch T•'e really haven't done

much work on that problem.

Iii. W1-iEJL7R: The committee has

been charged with the responsibility

of health services problem. We have

been charged with that responsibility.

What the chancellor suggests a pplies

to exp loration of this p roblem that

we have-in that partiucalr area.

CrANC LLP R DST GAN : I am sure,

Mr. Wheeler, you or anyone part of that

group.

I :R. W3 L- IAI S : I agree with what

Mr. Dungan suggests. And, I suggest

a committee meeting at the Nap Office,

the Nap Office is part of the community,

we don't close our doors to those who

was t t"o talk about that particular



105

issue.

	

he address is 441 r , Eouth

Orange .venue, on the corner of ?roam.

GHAITCOR DU:bAN: Okay. ;,"c

will adjourn until 7:30 on Monday.

1.


	page 1
	page 2
	page 3
	page 4
	page 5
	page 6
	page 7
	page 8
	page 9
	page 10
	page 11
	page 12
	page 13
	page 14
	page 15
	page 16
	page 17
	page 18
	page 19
	page 20
	page 21
	page 22
	page 23
	page 24
	page 25
	page 26
	page 27
	page 28
	page 29
	page 30
	page 31
	page 32
	page 33
	page 34
	page 35
	page 36
	page 37
	page 38
	page 39
	page 40
	page 41
	page 42
	page 43
	page 44
	page 45
	page 46
	page 47
	page 48
	page 49
	page 50
	page 51
	page 52
	page 53
	page 54
	page 55
	page 56
	page 57
	page 58
	page 59
	page 60
	page 61
	page 62
	page 63
	page 64
	page 65
	page 66
	page 67
	page 68
	page 69
	page 70
	page 71
	page 72
	page 73
	page 74
	page 75
	page 76
	page 77
	page 78
	page 79
	page 80
	page 81
	page 82
	page 83
	page 84
	page 85
	page 86
	page 87
	page 88
	page 89
	page 90
	page 91
	page 92
	page 93
	page 94
	page 95
	page 96
	page 97
	page 98
	page 99
	page 100
	page 101
	page 102
	page 103
	page 104
	page 105