Deposition of Mary Landrieu (Redacted)

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 

BARBARA MAJOR EYL. CIVIL ACTION 
ET AL 

VERSUS 

DAVID C. 
FT AL 

Deposition of MARY LANDRIEU, 

in the above-entitled cause, pursuant to 

notice and the within stipulation, at the 

offices of Quigley & Scheckman, 631 

St. Charles Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana, 

before Brad Guest, Certified Shorthand 

Reporter, on Tuesday, the 14th day of 

December, 1982. 

APPEARANCES : 

QUIGLEY & SCHFCKMAN 
(BY: WILLIAM PATRICK QUIGLEY 

R. JAMES KELLOGG 
MARK S. GOLDSTEIN 
and 
STEVEN SCHECKMAN) 

631 St. Charles Avenue 
New Orleans, Louisiana 70130 

For the Plaintiff 

  
SWNB Building 

644 Camp Street : \ 
102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 30: 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



CES (Continued): 

BRONFIN, HELLER, 
STEINBERG 

(BY: MARTIN 
and 
ROBERT A 

624 Whitney Bui 
New Orleans, Lo 

REPORTED BY: 

BRAD GUEST, 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



Stipulation LETC 

Examination Mr. Quigley 

Examination Mr. Feldman 

Examination Mr. Quigley 

Examination by Mr, Feldman 

Signature of the Witness 

Caextificate . . . +i 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

SOA520.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318.232.2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

2112ULAJIIQN 

It is stipulated and agreed by and 

among 811 parties that this deposition is 

being taken in accordance with the Federal 

Rules ‘of Civil Procedure. 

It is further stipulated that, with 

the exception of the filing of the original 

transcript of the deposition and the reading 

and signing of the original transcript of the 

deposition, all formalities are waived. 

It is further stipulated that, with 

the exception of all objections as to the form 

of questions and the responsiveness of answers, 

all objections are reserved until the time 

the transcript of the deposition is used or 

sought to be used in evidence at trial, 

* ok ® 

MARY LANDRIEU, 

of 

having been first duly sworn, was examined 

and testified as follows: 

EXAMINATION 

BY MR, QUIGLEY: 

Q Could you just state your name and   
  

644 Camp Street X SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA. 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

and your position 

Address: 

I represent District 90 in the 

House of Representatives. 

And how long have you been in the 

eglslature? 

years, 

and what committees do you serve 

on in the Legislature? 

Appropriations, House Appropriations 

Committee. 1 serve in that 

capacity as an elected member to 

the Second Congressional District. 

I serve in that capacity, 

a member of the Budget Committee, 

which meets in the interim, 

Local Municipal and Cultural Aff 

Committee. 

Do you have other employment bes: 

Legislat 

I work for New 

That's at 348 Baron: We e an 

oil field ipply npar and we 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Ine, 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS HAND    



  

  

  

sell casing and tubing and produc ~ 

tion piping. 1 also sell real 

estate and have a real 

license and manage resident 

property. 

Where is your district? 

Do you want the boundaries? 

Generally, 

It's in uptown New Orleans 

between Tulane Univers 

Garden District. That's 

district. In my new dist: 

take in a little bit more 

is the makeup of 

Just generally, in the sense 

racially, economically, 

You are speaking of the one t 

elected in or the one that -- 

The new district. 

It's 43 percent Black registration, 

and it's about 56 percent Black 

I population. t's 40,000 with 

about probably 20,000 regist 

voters, and it is -- otherw 

racial makeup,       

644 Camp Street 
SWNB Building New Orleans. LA 70130 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 504-529.3355 Lafayette, LA 7050] 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

skewed economically, I am sure, 

from the conservative Garden Dis- 

trict to the St. Thomas Housing 

Project. 

So it includes the St. Thomas ~-- 

Yes. 

I want to ask you some questions about 

reapportionment in general, the 

Congressional reapportionment. 

I would like to start by asking 

you when you first were involved 

in the question of Congressional 

reapportionment =- 

MR. FELDMAN: 

I would like to object to the 

form of the question. It assumes     
that she wae involved in 

— pe» Son eg 

 



  

  

whatever final plan comes before 

So in that capacity as was every 

other legislator, I was involved. 

When did your involvement begin? 

I suppose when the session began, when 

we first considered the reapportion- 

ment issue, both on a State level 

and Federal level, and I suppose 

that was last year, wasn't it? 

The beginning of last session. 

Do you remember any involvement prior 

to the session at all? 

NO, ROE -= no. 

Okay. Can you tell us how you perceived 

the issues in Congressional reappor- 

tionment in Louisiana? 

MR. FELDMAN: 

You are asking her for her 

opinion? 

BY MR, QUIGLEY: 

Q Yes, I am. 

A My personal opinion about what I think 

the issues should be in the reappor- 

tionment? 

What the issues were during the legisla- 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

tive session involving Congressional 

reapportionment. 

Reapportionment, Okay, Of primary 

concern in reapportionment is 

probably, regardless of what the 

public perceives, is the factor of 

incumbency, which politicians sort 

of take as probably the most impor- 

tant factor, although I don't 

agree with it personally, but that's 

always a factor, and that was a 

factor in the Congressional District 

-- what area of Congress the 

persons wanted, what they wanted 

their district to look like, and 

we, as Legislators, know how that 

is important to us, sort of under- 

stand that the people in Congress 

can sort of determine, based 

their incumbency ~-- but, the ¢ 

factor which is probably the 

important 1s, you know, 18 sort of 

the makeup racially and otherwise 

of the district, si the person   
rad tg   
   



  

  

the population is reflected as 

accurately as possible in Washing- 

State House, and 

it's important to keep 

neighborhoods together, to keep 

traditional ward lines together, 

that when a person is, in fact, 

elected from a particular district, 

that they will, in fact, represent 

that population. So that's taken 

into consideration as an issue. 

You know, the makeup of the district) 

And, thirdly, the racial makeup 

took precedence, and I think took 

much time in discussions, because 

Louisiana -- it's almost 25 percer 

minority representation -- 

voter-wise -- and there is -- 

wag a lot of discussions about 

Black population in our State 

sufficient representation, both 

the State House and in the Congress. 

Okay, The three elements that you talked 

about, incumbency, the need to keep 

like neighborhoods together, and   
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
118-232-2189 

Associated Keporters tic. 
FIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

the racial element, how were those 

three elements involved in the bills 

that were before the Legislature? 

What do you mean how were they involved? 

I don't understand. 

Let me ask another question before that, 

then. You perceived what the 

issues were as incumbency, the 

need to keep a community of 

interests, and the racial elements, 

How about the actual bills that were 

before the Legislature? How would 

you characterize what those different 

bills or the different tug-of-war 

that was going on between the people 

pushing different bills in the 

Legislature and Congressional 

reapportionment? How would you 

characterize that? 

Okay. If my memory serves me correctly, 

there was a committee that you all, 

1 am sure, are aware of, a reappor- 

tionment committee that handles =-- 

guess it's the House Governmental   
18ndien 

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA Tf 

104.520.3335 
: 

wi 
Associated Reporteid Hu  



  

the reapportionment, and this 

committee worked long and hard 

hours in that committee formally 

drafting up a proposal, sort of 

like a standard to operate by. 

You can imagine how difficult it 

would be for every legislator to 

introduce a thousand bills, so 

there was one plan, and so there 

were amendments to that plan, and 

that's sort of how I remember it 

working. So when the committee 

introduced the bill -- now, I may 

be confusing the House and the 

Congress, Forgive me if I am, but 

1 am just not clear, but when, you     the 

 



  

  

was discussed, there was some 

people that objected to it for 

some reason or another, for all 

sorts of reasons. People advocat- 

ing different boundary lines, 

For many reasons they didn't want 

to split this particular parish 

in half, to -- you know, the labor 

concentration was too heavy, you 

know, It was divided 

didn't look right. 1 

every reason, besides 

point, which was a significant one. 

Do you remember specifically any of the 

bills that dealt with the creation 

of a Black majority district? 

That was one plan which I person- 

ally supported to every extent that 

I could. It not only was primarily 

a Black district, population-wise, 

but it was primarily an Orleans 

Parish District, which is 

really the argument was for, 

Orleans Parish Congressional 

Distriet, which would take in most 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 

504-529-3355 

70130 

SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

>f the whole city and would be, 

with the Black population majority 

and Black population voter regis- 

tration, and then the Jefferson 

| ™ rish District, and many 

advocated that plan, many 

tors, and it was populer, 

couldn't get the votes 

and I don't know how short we were. 

can't remember, but we were 

few votes to pass that 

Okay. 

And it sort of came down to that one 

and the one that we probably have. 

I think those were the two plans. 

Okay. How involved were you in the 

Legislature itself in pushing 

Orleans~based plan or posing 

other plan? Did you take an active 

involvement -- 1 mean, an active 

role yourself?    



  

  

I can't recall if 

spoke with anybody out 

corridor or not - 

House chamber. 

he different people or players 

in the Congressional reapportionment 

you had spoken earlier about the 

issue of incumbency, the element of 

incumbency being important. 

you hear directly from any C 

ional representative about 

do you mean hear from? Did they 

write me a formal letter or make a 

telephone call? 

Any way. 

Any of the above? Most of the 

recall most of the Congress 

Congressional delegation was in 

Baton Rouge at one time or another 

meeting and testifying before the 

committee and speaking with us, 

the legislators. So I would 

gay that 1 probably did speak with    



  

  

exactly who, and I can't recall 

exactly when, but they were in Baton 

Rouge, and 1 am sure that I dis- 

cussed with them over lunch or 

drinks or something, whatever. 

Did you hear directly or indirectly from 

representatives of Jefferson Parish, 

Mr. Chehardy or any of the Jefferson 

legislators about their plans and 

Sso~¢called ~- 

Jefferson Parish plan? 

I talked with them at length about 

it, because that was the plan th 

I had supported. John Alairo 

Lawrence Chehardy and Eddie D 

and all of them, over and over 

over again, but we lost the votes. 

about ~~ 

FELDMAN: 

Could you repeat those 

Is Alairo ~~ he is a representative? 

WITNESS : 

John Alairo. 

MR. FELDMAN: 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
Newt Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

Chehardy? 

Chehardy and Eddie Doucet. 

FELDMAN: 

THE WITNESS: 

He {8 a representative from 

of that delegation for that position] 

FELDMAN: 

interrupt. 

wasn't 

I was apologizing 

MR. QUIGLEY: 

1 will take it anyway. 

BY MR. QUIGLEY: 

Q In terms of communications that you had 

from Governor Treen, did you have 

any communications indirectly or 

directly from the Governor's 

regarding their positions on       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 § 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 ; Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

I think we did. It seems to me that 

there were all sorts of letters and 

memos from everybody for their 

plan from the Governor, from the 

Jefferson Parish people, from the 

Black Caucus. Lots of letters 

coming across my desk, and I imagine 

the Governor wrote encouraging us 

to vote for this particular plan 

that he supported, for whatever 

reasons he had expressly or indirect: 

ly for supporting it. 

Okay. How about representatives of the 

Black Caucus or Black representa- 

tives? 

Well, I sit by Alphonse Jackson, who is 

Chairman, 80 I follow all of their 

maneuverings, and it was, you know, 

with them -- so we talked all the 

time about it. 

All right. How about representatives of 

other groups not in the Legislature, 

for example, business or labor =-- 

or were these folks involved, do you 

recall? 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

Everybody is involved in reapportionment, 

but I just can't tell you how 

involved. Of course, the labor 

people are interested in keeping, 

you know, their labor 

incumbents in the dist: 

they can represent 

they are 

288 lobby 

involved, but 

thing, like, 

side lobby. 

Voters was very 

tionment, 

1 believe. 

supporting a 

I don't recall seeing 

written from any part 

Okay. How about voters in 

Did they exhibit 

Any interests? 

Concern or interest or 

or 

No one way. 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504.529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

two people that called, 

guess not. 

All right. How, | -erms of the 

Black majority district plan that 

Ve talked about, how did the 

Congressional representatives, if 

you recall, how did they feel about 

that plan, or how did they communi- 

cate to you their interest in the 

plan? 

Are we speaking of only one Black 

majority plan or ~~ 

Any of then. 

Any of them? I can't recall a specific 

conversation, but I got the general 

feeling that they were not in 

support, as a group, of that plan. 

That's not to say that they weren't 

in support of it, because it was a 

Black majority district. They 

didn't like the way the lines were 

drawn primarily, but because of 

other reasons ~~ you know, from 

everything, like, Billy Tauzin was 

really interested in keeping his 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

™ district out of Jefferson 

hp beca 

Southern Frenc sort of area 

and, you know, 

various plans 

didn't like that plan because 

am sure they 

All right. 

It not passing. 

1 want to ask you some 

about the role tha 

the Legislature, not in ter: 

Congressional reapportionme 

now, but in general, 

questions that I am ge 

you, I am not asking 

and I am not trying to 

or anything like that, 

questions that we, 

are important     
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd Jit  



  

  

Oka Ye 

Just in general, for 

are in Baton R 

Legislative 

1 hear anyone, 

or 

and nigge 

anybody say the 

you are in Bato 

FELDMAN: 

Anybody 1 

QUIGLEY: 

Anybody in 

are 

FELDMAN: 

Anybody in 

Baton Rouge? 

can hone 

I have heard it 

en been 

ge oo $f » 

anybody like 

oe example, whe: 

uring the 

do you 

tors, 

that 

terms of 

the 

in the Legislature. 

the whole City 

stly say 

once or 

2 Vl 

  
644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CEOTICIED SHORTHAND CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

word anywhere 1 go any more, that 

particular word. 

BY MR. QUIGLEY: 

Q Okay. Do you hear other racially 

disparaging comments about indiv- 

idual people or people in general 

while you are in Baton Rouge? 

MR, FELDMAN: 

I am going to object to the 

form of the question. It's so 

broad that it can't possibly be 

calculated to lead to the discovery 

of permissible evidence. You can 

answer it if you want to try to, 

Mary, but 1 want to note an objec~ 

tion. I think this is just burden- 

ing the record unduly. 

THE WITNESS: 

Well, in answering the ques- 

tion, do I ever hear of that, of 

anyone, while IT am in Baton Rouge? 

Yes, 1 hear it from friends, from 

legislators, sometimes from students, 

from people in drug stores, from =-- 

I also hear that everywhere I go     
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 30: 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

to a certain point. 

Okay. Making the question more specific, 

disparaging racial comments from 

legislators, would you say you hear 

that from other legislators, and 

what context do you usually hear 

comments like that? 

Well, to be perfectly honest, I 

what you are getting at is, a 

there people in the House of 

Representatives who still hold 

some strong racial feelings? 

are some white legislators who 

feel that way. There are some 

black legislators who are very 

racist, also, in their remarks and 

comments, which is very unfortunate, 

but not only in the reapportionment 

issue, but in many other issues, 

that racial question comes to the 

forefront, and often is a ground 

for lots of discussions, et cetera. 

In addition to reapportionment, what 

other kinds of issues are you speak- 

ing about?       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

MR, FELDMAN: 

I am going to object to the 

form of that question. I am not 

sure that she has directly testified 

that she heard racial slurs in 

connection with Congressional 

reapportionment, and I think that 

the deficiency in the breadth of 

the questions that you are asking, 

Bill -- {if you want to ask her 

whether she heard racial slurs in 

connection with reapportionment, 

let's try to get it in the record 

through the front door, because I 

am not going to let you get it in 

through the back door. 

MR, QUIGLEY: 

Well, we will get to that and 

MR, FELDMAN: 

Let's not have questions that 

indirectly imply something that 

isn't suggested by her answers, 

MR, QUIGLEY: 

I think they are suggested, 

but we will go ahead and deal with 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 ! 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

that specifically, too. 

MR. FELDMAN: 

Okay. 

BY MR. QUIGLEY: 

Q What kinds of issues that are dealt 

with by the Legislature do you 

hear legislators, white or Black, 

speaking of in racially disparaging 

terms. 

I don't know what your definition of 

racially disparaging terms is. 

Why don't you clarify that for me 

I can be specific about what 

I am communicating. 

Maybe what =~ 

Tell me, you know -~- just ask me straight 

out to try to tell you, I don't 

Racially disparaging? What do you 

mean? 

By racially disparaging, I mean words 

or terms or code words that are 

used to describe people of a 

different color in a negative way. 

I don't know that legislators go around 
2 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504.529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

speaking in those terms. It's more 

of an attitude that every legisla~- 

tor has about members of the other 

race, and it's something that 

every person, also, has, and 

legislators bring that with them 

to Baton Rouge. You don't hear a 

lot of ranting and raving on the 

House floor about ugly terms or 

criticism of the Black Caucus, or 

the Black Caucus criticizing, you 

know, white legislators, but it's 

just an undertone (sic) of preju- 

dice that existe, and it is wisible 

almost every place a person goes, 

and it's visible im the House of 

Representatives and, also, in the 

Senate; and it comes to rise every 

time there is discussion about 

almost any issue. For instance, 

voter registration, which -- any 

issue ~-- almost any issue in Baton 

Rouge can come down to what is 

for the Blacks and what is good 

the whites is opposite, 1 don't       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

know why that happens, but it 

ue sort of takes 

on a racial battle, in my opinion. 

Mandatory kindergarten lay care, 

The Charity Hospita 

on and on and on. 

There are issues that, at a 

course in the discussion, an observe 

realizes that the Black Caucus and 

the liberals are for this side, and 

the white conservatives are over 

here, and it's because of ~-~- 

. 
ofa difference in attitude. 

You said earlier that it's your observa- 

Can you tell me who you would cons 

to be that? 

MR. FELDMAN: 

Could you repeat the question. 

(The reporter read back the 

requested portion at this point.) 

THE WITNESS:       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND RE PORTERS  



  

  

don't how to answer that question 

unless you give me a category. 

Supreme racist? Medium? Do you 

want me to go down the whole list? 

FELDMAN: 

You want white or Black 

both? 

QUIGLEY: 

I would like whoever you 

say, We will say whatever cate- 

gories you say. We will take 

supreme racist. 

"ELDMAN 

Black and white 

racists? 

WITNESS: 

I used that term, but it's not 

that bad. 

FELDMAN : 

understand the question? 

« the list of those 

9 

are motivated mord   
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Ine. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

by racist overtones? 

QUIGLEY: 

Right. 

FELDMAN: 

Black or white? 

WITNESS : 

Black and white? 

QUIGLEY: 

I have a list here. 

FELDMAN: 

When you answer, could you 

indicate for the record whether 

that individual is Black or white. 

Why don't we -- if you are going 

to ask her to go over the whole 

i1ist, maybe you could give her a 

couple of minutes to look at it, 

and she could mark it and then 

resume, 

(There was a brief recess at 

this point.) 

THE WITNESS: 

I can think that to answer 

these questions as falrly as 

can, either by names -- or 

    
SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

644 Camp Street 
New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  
  

  

point out a few names of people 

who stand out in my mind, and I 

think that most legis 

agree with my comments, 

can go through the enti 

the legislators that I 

to be very fair and not motivated 

by that =~ overwhelmingly motivated 

that, because there are few 

1f you see what I am saying. 

MR. FELDMAN: 

Could we 

for a minute? 

MR, QUIGLEY: 

Sure. 

(A brief discussion was held off 

the record at this point.) 

MR. FELDMAN: 

1 want this under seal 

marked confidential, and I am 

to enter 2 general objection 

now to this entire line of 

ing on the ground that 

opinion testimony 

nese who is being asked to give - ¥ 

  
  

644 Camp Street 
SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 
102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 
Lafayette, LA 7050] 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS   

    

   



  

  

her opinion and 

not admissible 

is it relevant 

ably calculated 

of admissible : , and 

4 4 , y Fe 2 Ta gn | Ta > 4 like to note a general objection 

without the necessity of repetition, 

if ‘that's all right with y Bi11. 

MR, QUIGLEY: 

That's fine 

BY MR, QUIGLEY: 

Q The question that I want to ask 

if you could give me your 1i 

New Orleans area legislators 

yu feel are not racially biased 

prejudiced in 

legislator. 

Okay. Let me say that I think eve: 

human has some sort of prejudice 

within that I think is amplified 

in some people to 8 greater extent 

than to others, and as much 

pride myself personally on 

fair minded and objective 

I think that even in nyself 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

are times when I, co, am somewhat 

motivated 

their feelings 

than others. 

are not. of that categor: 

fair minded in my >inion, recogniz: 

ing that ‘they deviate and have on 

some votes, and that I don't und 

stand. It would 

white legislator; 

who also seems to 

and has a good balance 

legislator. Johnny 

a8 Black legislator, 

air minded on 

Nick Connor, who 

another Black 

trying to 

roster of =~ 1 can't go back 

alphabetica lly. Bil ly Byrnes would 

be one, also, that, although he is 

not serving       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

who 18 serving there now, 

seems to be very balanced in his 

judgment. Terry Cee is another 

one that represents half of the 

Orleans District and part of the 

Jefferson Parish, That would be 

about it, 

Okay. 

Now, those people. -- that's not to say 

that every one that I didn't list 

is a racist. I am just giving 

-= trying to give you the best 

I can answer that question. 

FELDMAN 

Could I see that book? 

THE WITNESS: 

You know, it seems that there 

are always those in the middle 

the discussions with others 

either to the right or to the 

BY MR. QUIGLEY: 

Q All right, In terms of Congressional 

reapportionment 

MR, FELDMAN: 

Excuse me. Just so that the 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

record is clear, you listed only 

members of the House of Representa- 

tives, is that correct? 

THE WITNESS 

Oh, yes. Not in the Senate, 

just the House members, and just 

for Orleans Parish, 

BY MR, QUIGLEY: 

Q Okay. In terms of Congressional 

reapportionment, we spoke earlier 

about some of the goals that the 

Legislature looks at: incumbency, 

community of interests, and some 

sort of racial balance. Do you know 

specifically what guidelines were 

in Congressional reapportion- 

ment during that session over and 

above the generalities that you 

spoke about? 

No, I wouldn't be aware of any specific 

goals and objectives ot her than 

those three. 

going to show you two maps. This 

is the New Orleans area with the 

capital A up in the left-hand side         
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

with a blue line running down the 

Jefferson-Orleans line at the lake, 

cutting 2 yee the city, and follow~- 

ing the parish line again here. 

This is the map that we had drawn 

up with the Congressional boundaries 

prior to the reapportionment of 

thie special seseion that we 

The blue area to the right being 

the First Congressional District 

and the area to the 

Second. TI show you 

It's marked B, and these 

again, are the boundaries 

the First and the Se 

sional Districts with 

being the First District and 

non-blue being the Second. 

Can I ask you in terms of the elemer 

that we spoke about earlier, in 

terms of incumbency, 

preservation of neigl 

community of interests 

terms of racial composi 

is the basis for cutting       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 30: 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

this way, as you recall? 

MR. FELDMAN: 

I would like to enter an 

objection as to form. If she 

recalls? 

You are not obliged to specu- 

late, Mary. You can testify, but 

if you don't know, you should say 

80. 

THE WITNESS: 

Well, it seems to me that the 

argument for this particular plan 

was -- at least the argument pur- 

ported for the plan ~-- was that 

this was the Governor's choice in 

that it would have preserved the 

integrity of a conservative district 

which Bob Livingston represents, 

and it was one argument that was 

used, and in order to get this 

area which is, you know, white 

conservative, the 14th Ward, they 

needed some numbers to add into 

that district, and they drew the 

line right smack down the middle of       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

i 318-232.2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

uptown to get it. 

BY MR. QUIGLEY: 

Q You said that as you recall this is the 

Covernor's choice, and the idea was 

to preserve the integrity of a 

conservative district? 

What we -- a Republican district. 

All right, Okay. 1 want to zero in on 

Congressional reapportionment and 

the issue of race now to bring these 

threads together, You had said 

earlier that there were 2 number of 

bills, major bills, that dealt with 

Congressional reapportionment that 

were debated between the various 

forces. 

May 1 ask .2a question before we go on. 

Sure. 

1 don't mind answering my opinions about 

what other people think, but we are 

not going to ask me what my opinions 

are? It's about what 1 perceive 

the opinions of the Legislature 

in general to be? 

MR. FELDMAN: 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

I am glad that Ms, Landrieu 

made that observation, because I 

do think it points to the general 

deficiency in all of these questions 

that have been asked thus far, and 

I think it's fairly apparent that 

the witness has indicated now that 

not only was she not giving her 

personal opinion, but she was giving 

her opinion of the opinions of 

others, so we now have opinion 

upon opinion testimony, which is 

even more reprehensible as a matter 

of law. 

MR. QUIGLEY: 

I understand that in discovery 

MR. FELDMAN: 

And it is objectionable. 

BY MR. QUIGLEY: 

Q In discovery we are entitled to ask any 

questions that we want to, that 

maybe we couldn't introduce into 

court, but that may or could 

possibly lead to other evidence 

that we may not even get from 

“ 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 : Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  Were 

that we could use in developing 

the material that we present to 

the Court. So what I am interested 

in at this stage, 1 want to know 

what you felt, what you heard, 

what others told you, what was 

conmmunié¢ated to you, and your 

perceptions as a legislator as to 

what was going on. So I would like 

you to ~-= when I ask you the ques- 

tions, if you can answer on dif- 

ferent ‘levels, that's fine. However 

you feel most comfortable answering, 

that's fine. The first question is, 

were any of the bills dealing with 

Congressional reapportionment ever 

described to you in terms of the 

racial makeup of the different 

districts? 

Almost every plan was described 

in that fashion, 

any racially conscious statements 

made to you by anyone regarding 

a possible outcome of an election 

Po 

in any one of these districts? 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 

504-529-3355 

70130 

SWNB Building 
102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

Based on the racial makeup? 

Yes. 

Yes, Well, that is a consideration 

always. It is taken that -- except 

that in a district that is predom- 

inantly Black population and also 

predominantly registration, that 

a Black would represent that 

district, and vice versa 

white district. So that's the 

reason behind the division of the 

numbers of voters. 

Okay. 

To assure either a BI 

seat, 

Did you ever hear anyone describi 

Black majority district as 

district? 

No. 

Okay, Did you ever hear the quotation 

by anyone that, '"We have a nigger 

mayor. We don't need a nigger 

congressman''? 

Not that 1 can recall. 

Did you hear anything that was sim       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

to 

I don't 

how to answer 

asking me did I hear people 

not 

congressman, 

Okay. 

We will put "it thi 

population districts 

the election 

vee 

when you ea 

similar 

district? 

particular 

Let's go back 

to 

& 
L 

know. 

° 
tH] 

a 

18at i 

Yes. I don't know No. 

that, rou are 

speak 

in favor of having ea 

yes. 

+ 
y 8 

SO to assure 

of @ Black congressman, 

but, you know, know ~~ 

v 

J 

to it, 

I don't know 

term, 

to the statement 

you heard 

am not sure 

, e YE a 
correctly. 

saying they were opp¢ 

Black 3 ob | ma jor 

that would 

some people that 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

Okay. 

No, b 

Okay. 

Well, 

No. 

No. 

You s 

that way in the House. 

Can you tell us who you had ~-- 

who you heard say that? 

ecause it's not really based on 

what I heard. It's my perception 

of an undercurrent in attitude, 

and I think that that's what is 

important, It's not just so much 

whet they say. What they do, how 

they act, what they don't say, 

et cetera, and I am just trying to 

communicate that there was some 

feeling in Baton Rouge that a group 

of people or an attitude that did 

not want to create a Black majority 

district, just as there was some 

strong voices for the creation of 

a Black majority district, for the 

election of 8 Black congressman. 

I -=- go ahead. 

You go ahead. 

You will get it, I'm sure. 

aid there was an undercurrent or ea 

feeling that you got from people 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

SWNB Building 
102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

or 8 group of people that were 

opposed to the creation of a 

ma jority district, because it 

give us a Black congressman, 

did you 

I don't know. 

know how I arrived at the conclusions. 

Of watching the politics line 

against this plan, who was for 

one, who was for that, who was 

against that one, and I just sensed 

that there was some opposition to 

creating it among some people -- 

8 Black majority district. 

Were vou aware 

among Black 

Governor Treer 

tionment? 

thev 

together sort 

original plan 

they were in full support, 1 

unanimously 

Black district least, 
»       

644 Camp Street . SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

Okay. 

You k 

044 Camp Street 

Blacker district. I am not so sure 

of the -- of that district, but the 

district that would have given 

them the most opportunity to elect 

a Black congressman, and that's 

why they opposed Governor Treen's, 

because that was not designed in 

that fashion. 

now -- well, in all fairness, you 

know that even though race was an 

overriding question, there were 

other arguments surrounding these 

plans. One was the argument, is 

it better to have Orleans Parish 

all together with one single voice 

in Baton Rouge and have Jefferson 

Parish with one single voice, you 

know, a congressman, or is it 

better, you know, to have two people 

representing each half of each 

parish, and it's that that has been 

a traditional split. That was 

argument, Another argument was the 

« (1 conservative~liberal makeup, be it   
  

SWAB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Bivd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, ILA [050] 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
(SPTEED SHIOPTHAND 2307252]  



  

Black or white, 

argument, also, 

composition was probably the most 

significant of those three. 

Did you know that Governor Treen threat- 

ened to veto the plan that passed 

the House that created a Black 

ma jority district? 

effect did that veto threat have 

in the House? 

MR. FELDMAN: 

On Mary or on the House? 

Again, I would like to object as 

to the for of the question. 

BY MR, QUIGLEY: 

Q Whatever you ~~ 

A I don't really think it had 

or maybe just a little effect. 

the legislature wanted to pass 

that plan, they would have passed 

it and just let the Governor veto it. 

Okay. So you are saying it had jus 

little effect? 

MR. FELDMAN:       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

THE W 

MR. F 

BY MR, QUI 

Q Okay. 

Okay, 

IL Hin Wiki 

Mew Olen LA (1A 

WA A0 

Or no effect, 

ITNESS 

Or no effect. 

ELDMAN: 

Please stop characterizing 

the witness' testimony. Please 

give the whole response and not 

the part that you like. 

GLEY: 

You say that ~-- and, again, 1 

will repeat this, and I want you to 

explain it some more. You say that 

if the Legislature had wanted to 

pass the Black majority district, 

they would have, and they would 

have just let the Governor veto it? 

in your ‘opinion, did the Legisla- 

ture not pass that? 

Because the Governor lobbied 

strongly for his plan and was 

successful in convicing enough 

people to vote for 

why 

Thank you. One last thing, what 4 oY 

A v/ I Wie 

{14 Vi alll 1] 1] Hi Hig H] 

$.242.21%) 

I Faluyetie, LA 709)) 

I 
Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

  

reasons, other than race, 

involved in the opposition 

Black majority di 

State that, again, for me. 

What reasons, other than racial reasons, 

were involved in the opposition to 

Black majority district? 

those earlier in another sense. 

was the argument that 

were concerned about, 

Jefferson Parish have their own 

congressman. It was thought thai 

erhaps Orleans Parish would 

hearing in Washington if 

had two people representing it 

opposed to one. So that would 

been one, you know; how it 

out. I guess that's about it. 

1 want to ask you a 31 question, 

then {if Mr. Feldman wants to ask 

you anything, he can ask you, 

understanding of what you said 

earlier was th: s the over- 

riding element Hh ost important 

element in 

  

644 Camp Street : SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters lnc. 
\ 

FINORTERD    



  

be accepted. I want you -- that's 

my understanding of it. So I want 

you to tell me what role that the 

race of the voters played in the 

decision to have Congressional 

reapportionment in the Legislature, 

again, 

The race of what voters? Of the legisla- 

tors? 

No. The race of the citizens in what- 

ever districts were being proposed. 

Do you want me to restate it? 

Yes, please. 

I think that, in what I said before, 

it was that I think that in reappor- 

tionment there are several factors 

that are considered, and that race 

is a very, very important one, the 

racial makeup of a district. Does 

that answer your question? 

Okay. Okay. Can you tell us which 

legislators were opposed to the 

creation of 2 Black majority 

district for reasons of racial 

bias or racial prejudice.       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Ine. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

In the whole State? 

I would like to know primarily the 

New Orleans area. 

I can't really tell ‘you that, because, 

you know, 1 can't speak for a 

person, what they =-- why I think 

they voted a certain way. It's 

just my opinion, and it could be 

very incorrect, I don't know, and 

I really -- unless you give me a 

roll call, I don't remember who 

voted for what plan, and to tell 

you the truth, all I know is how 

I voted, and 1 really am not 

exactly sure about my voting record. 

You have to realize that there were 

amendments on the floor of the 

House, and there were lots of votes 

being taken, and I would be happy 

to answer that question if you have 

a voting record and I could go 

through one vote at a time, because 

there was more than one vote, and 

I could sort of work through it 

with you that way, what my perceptior       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

    
644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, 

S04- 529 
LA 70130 

39020 

I 
Reporters Inc. 

JRTHAND REPORTERS 

    

SWNB 

102 Versailles 

Lafayette,  



    

  
nme! 

      
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 2 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504.529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



i ad Wh ny 

  

Congressional district reapportion- 

ment as 1¢ of a legislator who 

was generally involved but not 

specifically involved in the issue, 

is that correct? 

That's correct, 

Did you participate in any wdy in the 

actual drawing of any of the 

Congressional district lines in 

connection with any of the plans 

that were offered in the Legisla- 

ture? 

think that I was, 

got into some perceptions a 

1d since you testified 

your district is 56 percent   population and 42 percent 

registration, is 1t your 

opinion or perception that a white 

person could adequately represent 

a predominantly Black district? 

There are examples of that now, 

and I think that Black people can 

be adequately represented and vice 

versa,     
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Bivd., Suite 304 

504-529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232.2189 
Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

Do you 

you indicated that 

’ 

that 

- 

bably 

0 "Tre aE [< Pe © Cc ae SA 

adequately & 

could ue 

antly 

there 

29 © 
“Woe 

a whole I 

S 1 igh t 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS 

SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189    



    

lemocrat Republican 

Lbera 

labor 

Labor-business 

Lined up on a 

its intere 

Yes, 

And 1 gather ti 

» o ® ay or #4 © wn am on Dn # & Lay side protect 

me 

the     
  

644 Camp Street SWNB B 
New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

Yes. 

And that happened generally throughout 

of Louisiana, isn't that 

over the many 

draw dist 

There was mu 

groups, 

There was a deal of 

tha 

not only racial? 

Right, 

Is that 

fact that 

Nunez Plan would have 

distric 

ominated politically 

Is that the ‘plan we have now? 

The Nunez 

Is that the one we have now? 

the on 1 
| 5 39 NY ~ x 

that created a Black 

vou referred 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



  

Right. 

And tha 

enou| 

There wa 

J a 4 oi 
arisn 

fexrson       

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 3 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

E 318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



    

d 1 vn 7 
ibersa.s 

rye 

  

dL ©   
Crile 

EYei1oY     
  

644 Camp Stree SWNB Building 
New Orleans. LA 701 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 

504-529-3355 Sgr Lafayette, LA 
A 
1 

318-232-2189 

~r 

ssociated Reporters 
3 |ED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

ap £2 
spec 3 L 4 

none 

that 

listed your 

LY IN © 

w@ gl 

those represents 

yourself, 

tee on Redist 

  

644 Camp Street 
New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS 

SWNB 
102 Versailles 

Lafayette, L/ 
21¢ 

18.2   
  

  

 



      

t know. 

¥ 

Was 

menta 

Kk]  } don 

commit 

How would y 

2 # 
4mm MT 

» hd oe BW A 

¥ CRUE Y   

    
  

644 Camp Street 
New Orleans, LA 70130 a 

504.529.3355 Lafayette, 

318-232-2189 
Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

phone conversation or {in a 

I just assumed 

anyone else tell you that 

judgment that you reached during 

the process as it was unfolding, 

isn't that 

it was a 

as a result 

gs of o and politics 

that correct? 

did the Governor or anyone 

ever tell you that he was 

to preserve a conservative 

Republican district for Con 

Livingston     
  

SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

icting in Louisiana 

was a dimension in which those 

politicians who were active in 

2 
drawing the district were seeki 

to enhance rather than to dilute 

the minority vote, isn't that 

correct? 

Marty, 1 don't know if I would say 

that, that the people on the 

committee -- would 

that or something. 

the end result of 

one whi 

in the 

I think that the numt show 

slightly increased, yes. 

what? Is it 38 percent? 

[/] know the percentage? 

- 

I have them, but I 

have them, 

It was a slight increase of -- 

It went up to about 44.5 percent, 

1c? 

Of population? 

on '] br a a nd © on P yg Registered voters. 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 
New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

304.399.3333 Lafayette, LA 70501 

8.24221) 

Associated Reporters Inc    



  

  

¥ 3 
Vy WR 

WW § 
2 4 puld 

  

  

 



 
 

 
 

   
 

 
 

 



    

matt 

ge J 3 - 

the so-¢caéa 

it created   
controlle 

  
Are you 

OPP   reas 

I think 

hoff NR 

Now, many 

  I think they we: 

it. 

But, many whites 

I don't know wha     
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 i 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318.232.2189 
Associated Reporters Ine. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

ol 

knew 

wer dn © 

*o it 

w 

i 

becau 

ink 

it, 

that there w 

what the final 

remember. 

some white legislators -ecpposed 

ys and the entire Black Delega- 

but for maybe Louis Charbonnet 

as’ on the committee, he voted 

and I don't remember, 

se I don't know the 

record. 

But there 

we 

R 3 ’ ght 

Are you 

P ap 
- a is 

cient 

were whites as well 

Governor's 

when 

are of whether or not Orleans 

3 
ASX ~ h has, thie census, [38s 

iA3 

to support 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

SWNB Building 

102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



—. 
  

odd thousand people 

Congressional district. 

sbout 50 ) 0 ( le about 500,000 people, 

contiguous 

mation. 

MR, 

Bs 2 
iven 

Orleans Parisi       
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  
  

  

  

      
644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd. i 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, 
318.2: 

d Reporters Inc. 
SHORTHAND REPORTE  



      

  

re a dX 
y oh e be S i No 

vi wa vy 2 Jv 4 
inyth Li 

redist: 

  

644 Camp Street A 

New Orleans, LA 70130 R 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

Lafayette, LA 

318-232-2189 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS   

  

 



  

Po 

‘serviced 

thi pl B 

th ai 3 
na up 

Sv ra 04'd 
aDouUt 

something that 

increase 

ing to 

% v " . <n oy » © 

the person 

very conserve 

wanted to     
    

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

304-529-3355 

SWNB Build: 

102 Versailles Blvd., 

Lafayette, 14 A 

318-232.2 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

faction, you know, 

object, also. So, 

a lot of that 

went that is wrapped 

und the incumbency factor, and, 

you know, no one expressed verbally 

to me, I think {it is an atmos- 

pre, 

is wrapped up with 

y factor. Was race 

incumbency in the 

Congressional reapportionment, in 

your opinion? 

Specifically in this reapportionment? 

Not so much, because Lindy Boggs, 

ardless of + t her district we ey 
“SH 

would have been given, the inc 

bency of her district, of herself, 

even if a Black district would 

Po 

have been 50-50 + it created 

where a Black 

etter chance be 

ink she 

  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 
504-529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 

318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS    



    

race 

ow” 4 
wer 

» THY @® wy ne A 

MR, FELDM   
happ 

THE WITNES 

QUIGLEY 

    
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans, LA 70130 102 Versailles Bivd., Suite 304 

504-529-3355 Lafayette, 

318.2. 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  

  
  

§ 
4 gs a L & 59 

  
        

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504- 

SHORTHAND REPORTERS  



  
  

    
  

644 Camp Street SWNB Building 

New Orleans. LA 70130 02 Versailles Blvd., Suite 304 

504-529.3355 Lafayette, LA 70501 
318-232-2189 

Associated Reporters Inc. 
ATHAND REPORTERS  



  

  

  

pig JILY 

LAND 

a EE a i aA nnn 

    
  

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 

504-5 
Bh) 5 Fa 0-3 3 ls] 

70130 

SWNB Building 

Versailles Blvd., uite 304    



I rer 

  

  

I, the undersigned reporte 

hereby certify that the above 

is a true and correct transcription 

stenographic (Stenotype) notes of 

ings herein, taken down by me and 

under my supervision, at the time and 

hereinabove noted, in the above-entitl 

and -numbered caus 

certify that the 

was duly 

Certified 

Louisiana; that I am not of counsel or re 

the counsel or any of 

employ of any of them; 

interest in the 

  

BRAD GUEST, 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 

  

644 Camp Street 

New Orleans, LA 70130 

504-529-3355 

Associated Reporters inc. 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS