Public Hearing in re: Negotiations on Relocation of New Jersey Medical School in Newark, NJ

    M L L-

ESSEX COUNTY

In the matter of the
Public Hearing in re:
Negotiations on Relocation
of New Jersey Medical
School in Newark, N. J.

1100 Raymond Blvd..
Newark, New Jersey
February 26, 196a

A P P E A R A N C E S:

RALPH DUNGAN

JOEL STERNS

MANUAL CARBELLO

STEVEN FARBER

LOUIS DANZIG

HARRY WHEELER

DUKE MOORE

JUNIUS WILLIAMS

RUSSELL BINGHAM

LOUISE EPPERSOLL

. MICHAEL DAVIDSON, ESQ.



2

MR. STERNS: I think I will call

the meeting to order. I think what we

had been scheduled to do was to take up

on health matters which were discussed

both yesterday a:d today in subcommittee

meetings.

MR. WHEELER : Joel, before we ^Tet

involved in the health aspects which

were handled in a working subcommittee

meeting, Junius has an announcement

dealing with a phase of the housing

program that we feel is pertinent and

appropos at this juncture.

MR. WILLIAMS: We want to make this

clear, that tnese are preliminary

recommendations. We are still awaiting

Mr. Beckett's report. However. we do

feel qualified to make these suggestions.

I will clarify it by just reading a little

bit from a preliminary report on Page 3.

"The total program is based on the

assumption that a housing program for the



3

whole city should be based on the number

of housing units taken down in the city

and styled to meet the family size and

income of those families and individuals

to be relocated."

Now, in keeping with that, we

propose that at least 54 acres of land

be cleared or readied for immediate

development of housing under community

auspices which will, of course, mean a

nonprofit community corporation. This is

immediate, dealing with the housing needs

of the people to be displaced by NJ R-196

and for long term proposals in terms

based on the housing needs of the people

in the City of Newark that are affected

by all sorts of urban clearance programs,

urban renewal and the highway, we propose

that at least 268.6 acres be cleared.

Now, this is based on an understanding

that in a given neighborhood you need

related facilities such as schools, such



as commercial -- such as stores, I should

say -- and such as churches and various

other things that may need to go into that

particular neighborhood. But the key

things that we are emphasizing is acreage

here and we would like to have some kind

.of commitment from Mr. Danzig that that

can be so.

I would like to repeat that we are

well aware that 22 acres has been freed,

it is supposed to be ready for building.

What we want now is a commitment from

Mr. Danzig that that

	

acres can be

forthcoming perhaps from NJ R-6 I believe

it is, the tract that we were discussing

before.

MR. DUNGAN: Let me get this clear.

Are you talking now about specific acres

when you say "54," and are you talking

about acres that are presently cleared or

are you talking about acres that should

be immediately cleared?



MR. WILLIAMS: Presently cleared,

ready'for building, immediately, like

yesterday.

MR. DUNGAN: Do you have in mind the

specific additional 38 acres?

MR. DANZIG: I have the maps here

with RS-6 shown plainly on it. There is

plenty of land available but for those

in the community who do not know the

history of this, this land is tied up

now by one man in New York, a fellow by

the name of Jack Parker. He is

controlling all of your land in the City

of Newark. Just for the record, I think

he has more land in R-6 than the medical

students seek to get. This is one man

with an option.

MR. WHEELER: I think it should be

made crystal clear that we want some of

that land inside those boundaries. Again

I would like to ask Mr. Danzig, realizing

that he did promise to look into this



I‘

6

matter, we would like some sort of a

report from him as to a definite

commitment as to community housing.

MR. DANZIG: You are reading from

our map. First, we produced two maps.

The first one referred to Fairmont which

none of the land was free and we did say

that I would talk to the Parker people

about the possibility of releasing that

land. I have talked to the man. He is

not in town and he is expected by next

week at which time I will talk to him

further about this proposal so we don't

get tied up in a lawsuit. I did say,

however, that we had other pledges in

the area. I haven't added up the acreage

and I defined each and every piece'on the

map and you can add them up.

I don't know what you have reference

to so I don't know what it is I am being

asked to pledge or to commit on the 268

acres that you referred to.



7

Your next proposal, I don't know

which acres they are.

MR. WILLIAMS: Don't misunderstand.

There are two demands. There is one for

immediate.housing needs, there is one

that is long term. The 54 acres deals

with immediate needs.

MR. DANZIG: R-1?

MR. WILLIAMS: From within R-6 and

from within Fairmont.

MR. DANZIG: Fairmont let's forget

about. I have committed that.

MR. WILLIAMS: Twenty-two acres,

as far as that is concerned, yes, you are

right. The rest of it would have to come

out of R-6, the difference would come out

of R-6.

MR. DANZIG: Whatever has not been

pledged, I did mention to you that some

was pledged like to the YMCA, to other

groups. One of them was about to start

. construction in a couple of weeks and



another one is in FHA and then I talked

about the YMCA and I talked about the

Urban League and these are commitments.

These are pledges.

MR. WHEELER: If I may, Joel, what

we are talking about is that when we

went over parcel by parcel, Mr. Danzig,

on the NJ R-6 matter, we found that in

our own perusal there were close to 30

acres of land that could be negotiated

for and Mr. Danzig was asked to contact

Mr'. Parker in this area. So that

actually the figure of 54 acres is a

"reasonable figure" based on the

information that we have been working

with and particularly with respect to

the map that Mr. Danzig produced and

what Mr. Williams is . talking about at

this juncture is not the 22 or 24 that

has been committed on the Fairmont tract

but at least a minimum progress report

on the acreages that represents the



n.

differential between 54 and 22.

MR. CARBELLO: This is land in an

urban renewal tract in discussion not

an urban tract?

MR. WHEELER: That is not

necessarily true, Mannie. Some of-it

is clear.

MR. CARBELLO: But not all. of it.

MR. WHEELER : Not all of it is

clear, that is correct. We understand

that.

MR. DANZIG: Harry, I am not-

familiar with how you arrived at your

figures and I would be very happy to say

to you now that I have talked with

Mr. Parker, I don't think there will be

any problem on any unpledged land. I

don't think there will be any substantial

problem.

MR. BROWN: How much unpledged land

is there?

MR. DANZIG: Whatever has not been



10

marked out plus the additional stuff I

talked about that was in the progress of

negotiation. The other land is open on

which there are no plans or specifications

or no expenses incurred and that I think

is the stuff . that is negotiable.'

MR. WHEELER: The land that represents

the differential between the 24 and 54,

the figure 54 was arrived at on the

basis of information supplied to us by

Mr. Danzig. Consequently, if it is a

fractional part off on the acreage, this

is the round numbers that we had talked

about in terms of how we earmark parcels

that could be negotiated in the R-6 tract.

MR. DANZIG: Well, have you now

deleted from the 54 acres, Harry? This

is what I am trying to find out. I don't

want to make any commitments here that I

can't back up. Now, if I indeed have

negotiated with the bricklayers, you

haven't included that, .



11

MR. WHEELER: Can I say this to you

and I want to be crystal clear. The

approximately 30 acres of land that we

are talking about is land that you said,

as we went over each parcel number, that

"this is negotiable, " and "I will direct

my efforts toward Mr. Parker for freeing

this. " This is how we arrived at the 54.

We didn't pull the figure out of a hat.

MR. DANZIG: I didn't say you did.

I merely want to know very simply before

I make a commitment as to what is and

what is not negotiable. Have you

subtracted the area for the YMCA? Have

you subtracted the housing that has been

identified for the Urban League? Have

you subtracted the Charlton Street school

land? Have you subtracted the Boys' Club

land?

I said I was in negotiation with the

national office of the Urban League for

Turn Key low-rent housing.



12

MR. MOORE: But you have just

admitted --

MR. DANZIG: I said I have negotiated.

MR. WHEELER : Chancellor, if you

remember, one of the things we arrived at,

and agreed upon was that there would be a

cessation of all negotiations dealing with

the matters that Mr. Danzig has just put

on the table and this was agreeable and

it is on the basis of that that we arrived

at the 5L. acres. Now, we have not

necessarily taken from anyone. We are

operating from the vantage point of all

negotiations have ceased and, consequently,

in this 153 acre tract we are talking

about 30 acres.

MR. STERNS: May I ask you something?

Would it be possible . for you to identify

by parcel number the acreage that composed

the 30 that you are apparently talking

about?

MR. DANZIG: That is what I am asking



for. I am being asked to make a

commitment of something I don't quite

understand.

MR. WHEELER : First of all, we got

this from previous negotiations and I

will go back into the record. Now, I

don't want to hold up what else is

coming.

MR. DANZIG: Harry, you can simplify

it by answering a few questions. We are

already committed to Charlton Street

school. Do you want me to pledge that

land?

MR. DAVIDSON: Let me put it this

way, we are saying' there is a need for

54 acres based upon some assumptions

we have in terms of the density, producing

54 acres of housing starting now. Now,

we have 22.

MR. DANZIG: That is not what it is

based on at all.

MR. DAVIDSON: It is based upon need.



14

MR. DANZIG: The need is there, yes.

MR. DAVIDSON: We are putting the

burden on you.

MR. DANZIG: I am willing to assume

the burden if I can bring it down to an

identification. I don't want to sit at

a public meeting and make a commitment

about something I don't quite understand.

When I 'ask a question, I am not given an

answer. I will not work on a one-way

street.

Now, all the questions have been

directed at me. I am now reversing the

order and asking if in the 34 acres, you

see, in the so-called 30 some odd acres

that have been identified by this group

out'of the RS project, if the ones on

which the pledges have been made by my

authority are included in there. I will

not commit something that I have committed

to the School Board for a new school

since Charlton Street school is going to



15

be torn down. I have an old, old

commitment to the Boys' Club and that is

identified on that map. I made other

identifications in the meeting we had

concerning these maps. which I brought

forthrightly to the table for

identification.

Now, why can't we refer to the maps

and I can simplify it if you tell me

that these are or are not included so

that I can made a commitment as to what

I will be required to pluck from

Mr. Parker.

MR. WHEELER:. Chancellor, we wish

to assure Mr. Danzig that the 30 acres of

land that we are talking about in the R-6

tract does not include Charlton Street

school and does not include the YMCA.

However, the whole question of the Urban

League became a negotiable item under

the proposed housing umbrella group which

he agreed to at least to the best of my



knowledge at a previous meeting.

MR. DANZIG: I did not. I asked

you to turn down the umbrella league and

the YMCA and you didn't do that. You

didn't turn it down. And I was in the

process of megotiating with them.

Who are they now?

MR. BROWN: In a subsequent meeting,

Mr. Danzig, you said you had stopped

negotiating.

MR. DANZIG: That is right. I would

not negotiate anything new.

MR. WHEELER: No. Now, wait a

minute. That is an addendum that was not

a part of the original statement and you

know it.

MR. DANZIG: I think the record will

show that I asked you to tell me whether

or not you will approve the Urban League

or the YMCA.

MR. WHEELER: I am not addressing

myself to that. You added a word to



17

your statement that did not exist before.

You readily agreed that you would be

prepared to cease negotiating with all of

these parties depending on creastion of a

broad umbrella group to be involved. Now

the addendum that you just added was not

in the original statement.

MR. DANZIG: I also asked two other

questions about the umbrella group to

which I have not received any answers as

to how broad its base would be, when would

it be selected, within what reasonable

time.

MR. DUNGAN: Wait a minute. I think

the issue that I would like to have

clarified, if it is possible either

immediately or in a short time, could we,

Mr. Wheeler and Mr. Williams, identify

the parcels by number that you had in

mind that would add up to 30?

MR. MOORE: While they are doing

that, I would like to find out really



18

4

now, since the addendum has been added

by Mr. Danzig, whether he has or has not

ceased negotiations with the parties that

he proposed to cease negotiations with,

namely, the Urban League and --

MR. WHEELER: Or any other group.

This was made very clear.

MR.-DANZIG: This was made clear by

you. It was not agreed to by me. I

asked you to turn down that particular

meeting which wasn't the last meeting

but the one before, whether the YMCA and

the Urban League was satisfactory to the

group.' You gave me no answer. Today you

say that the YMCA is all right, the

Charlton Street school is all right.

MR. WHEELER: No, I didn't.

MR. DANZIG: Is the Boys' Club all

right? That is an old, old transaction.

These are related facilities.

MR. MOORE: We are talking about

those that you had not had a commitment on



19

and you were in the negotiation stage

with and you agreed that you would cease

negotiations.

MR. DANZIG: Well, now let me say

something about the commercials.

MR. MOORE: Never mind that.

MR. WHEELER : Don't change. the

subject.

MR. DANZIG: I have ceased

negotiations on the commercial.

MR. MOORE: How about the others?

MR. WHEELER: If I may, Mr. Chancellor --

MR. DANZIG: I can't on the Charlton

Street. That is a pledge.

MR. WHEELER: Just a moment. First

of all, the whole gist of this was that

Mr. Danzig would cease negotiations. Now

we are not talking about commitments of

10 years ago. He went on to point out that

he was in negotiation with the Urban League,

the Boys' Club. There was some question.

about the YMCA, et cetera.



.

20

MR. DANZIG: No, I did not.

MR. WHEELER : And at that juncture

we asked him to cease negotiations on all

matters pertaining to housing, to await

the establishment of a broad umbrella

group, public nonprofit corporation, to

get involved in the housing program and

he agreed. Now he is saying something

else,

MR. DANZIG: I am not saying another

thing that is any different than I said

before. I brought you the map. It is

plain on that map that the Boys' Club is

named. That is not in negotiation, that

is a pledge. The City of Newark for a

Green Acres Park, that is a pledge. The

Charlton Street school, that is a pledge..

The YMCA, that is a_ pledge.

The reason the Urban League isn't

on there is because I said I had just

commenced negotiation.

MR, DUNGAN : If I may.



21

MR. DANZIG: If you want to rule the

Urban League out --

MR. WHEELER: This is the second time

you started with that unmitigated nonsense.

We are not ruling out anyone.

MR. DUNGAN: My understanding of

that discussion -- and you will have to

check the record to be sure of this

although frankly I think you might discuss

the issue today nova, is pretty much the

way Mr. Williams and Mr. Wheeler discussed

them, that on these parcels on which there

was not a commitment, such as on the

bricklayers , tract where you have a

contract apparently or the school where

you have a long term ten year, long-standing

term --

MR. DANZIG: And the Boys , Club and

the YMCA.

MR. DUNGAN: -- that all of the lands

of the 153 acre tract that we are talking

about would be subject to discussion on a



22

broad base committee group to see whether

in view of the land shortage the proposed

use . was appropriate.

MR. DANZIG: Do you recall,

Chancellor, that the YMCA and the Urban

League I threw on the table? Do you

know, for example, that the YMCA has

virtually raised $400,000 for the purpose

of constructing that? Now, that is more

than negotiation, sir. We had been out

selecting sites with them for months and

months and months. This is hardly

negotiation any more. This to me is a

conclusion.

Now, the Urban League I will admit

I laid it right on the table that that

we had opened a discussion. Now, so

far as those -- and the Urban League, by

the way, is not shown on the map, it is

not shown on that map, it is not marked

"Urban League. "

The YMCA is marked, the Charlton



23

Street school is marked.

MR. WHEELER:. Then you are in error

of your interpretation of your own map

based on the laSt meeting because you

pointed to the Urban League --

MR. DANZIG: I did, but it is not

on the map because that map only reflects

those negotiations that.have been long

in the process. The Urban League, I

told you --

MR. WHEELER: May I ask you this?

What do you mean by "long in process " ?

MR. DANZIG: The Boys' Club is a

fixture, the school is a fixture, the

park is a fixture, the YMCA is a fixture.

MR. WILLIAMS: For those of you

new in the session, you are getting

indoctrinated in the whole process.

Number one, you can't talk because

Mr. Danzig talks; number two, he has

been successful in just about ten minutes

in making something that is very simple



24

into a confused mirage. Now, our figure

was based on need. It is up to

Mr. Danzig to find the land.

Now, we say there is land available.

Mr. Danzig says he doesn't understand.

Well, I am talking about brown dirt that

has been torn down with houses have been

torn down. Now, maybe we will have to

get a taxpayer's suit or something on

that order to investigate just why

Jack Parker has 153 acres under option

anyway.

MR. DANZIG: You do just that.

MR. BROWN: Or maybe we will have to

investigate some of the other policies

such as when people are told to move out,

they never get any money . for their housing.

MR. DANZIG: We tell nobody to move

out. That was not our situation.

MR. WILLIAMS: We are not here to

engage in seemingconfusion because to us



25

it is very simple. Fifty-four acres of

land is necessary to house the people that

are going to be dislocated and somebody

is going to have to find the land. It is

just like that. Until that happens, there

shall be no medical school.

MR. DUNGAN: May I ask just to

clarfiy the record in my own mind what

are your density assumptions on which you

arrive at the 30 plus the 22?

MR. WILLIAMS: Approximately 50 units

per acre. That is low-rise --

MR. WHEELER: Let me- say this to you.

We are not here to get involved in the

unit structure per acre. What we are

talking about is the most simple aspects

of this matter. There is 153 acres of

land under option to Mr. Parker. All we

are saying is, " Mr. Danzig, will you

give us 30 acres of it?" Now, where you

want to give it to us and how you want to

give it to us, work it out and bring it



rF

back.

MR. DUNGAN: You mean make available

to the community for housing, that is a

better way of putting it.

MR. WHEELER: That is correct. The

point of the matter is we thought that

had been established..

MR. DANZIG: Mr. Chancellor, I am

not here to confuse the issue. I asked

a simple question and I get a lot of

confusion in return. I produced that

map for the purpose of clarity here. I

produced the other map for purposes of

clarity. We prepared these very

carefully to show all the land. We

prepared them and we identified the uses

to which that land was to be put. We

marked it all up, that is things in

place, things under construction, things

to be built, things in the FHA, things

that were pledged, and I say to you right

here and now it is all on that map and I



2

went through parcel by parcel very

carefully and identified it and said to

the Committee, " That which is not pledged

we will talk to Mr. Parker about." And

I had my initial conversation with him.

I do not think this will be a serious

problem.

In the interest of integrity, my.

integrity, I would like to say a very

simple thing, that the items on that

map have been pledged. The Items that

are not delineated like right next to

the YMCA there are 2.21 acres, whatever

the number is from this point, that is

Item Number 23, there is no name on that,

that means that there was no pledge.

That means that I had one discussion,

had several discussions with the Urban

League about construction in Newark but

I had one specific meeting with the

national organization about this piece.

We had not concluded any transactions.



28

I said so. I now say to you that we had

identified the piece for the YMCA on that

map as being .a pledge item for which the

YMCA people I understand have already

-raised a substantial sum of money. .We

had many, many meetings, vis-a-vis, we

didn't have many, many meetings on the

Urban League. Now,then, those items that

are identified with names like the

Boys , Club, like the new Charlton Street

school, like a public park and like the

YMCA and the bricklayers , and the citizens ;

group, these, I don't remember -- yes, I

do, the Perry Funeral Home is on there,

all those are identified as having been

negotiated and they are not now negotiable.

Now, if we are going to argue about whether

there were 30 acres in this area or 29 and a

half or 32 and somebody says it will either

be 34 or there will be no medical school,

then I submit this is not a negotiating

table..



Pc)

A VOICE: The question here, as a

matter of expediency, I mean, Mr. Williams

addressed the question to Mr. Danzig a

short while ago, this land that has been

pledged to Mr. Parker, as I understand it,

you have a March 11 deadline. Is

Mr. Danzig willing to act expediently to

get this land from Mr. Parker? I think

the burden of responsibility at this

point in time rests with Mr. Danzig, not

with anyone else.

MR. DANZIG: I said he would be

back next week at which time I will try

to bring you the conclusion of our

conversation.

MR. WILLIAMS: Then maybe we should

hold the meeting to next week.

MR. DANZIG: That does not alter the

YMCA, Chariton .Street or anything.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. DUNGAN: We are back over all

grounds with reference to representatives



30

-

of the community being concerned with the

way land in this plot has been allocated

to developers. I think the issue is

simply in terms of the negotiating

agreements possible. Is it possible to

locate possibly .34 acres of land either

in R-6 or elsewhere?

MR. DANZIG: We have identified

roughly 30 acres, of course, in R-6.

MR. WHEELER: That is what we are

talking about.

MR. DANZIG: Now, that is the issue.

MR. WHEELER: Once you want to move

out of that, you open up a new vista.

MR. DUNCAN: If we have identified

the 30 acres --

	

.

MR. DANZIG: I don't want to move out

of that . --

MR. WILLIAMS: Can you tell me where

the land•is that we can have?

MR. DANZIG: .We told you in that area.

MR. WILLIAMS: Somewhere on this map?



31

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, would you

address this question to Mr. Danzig?

Is there 30 acres of land that can be

turned over to a community nonprofit

group for building housing in the R-6

tract?

MR. WILLIAMS: Now.

MR. DANZIG: First of all, I don't

know that all 30 acres -- these are your

figures, gentlemen. I don't know

whether all 30 acres are absolutely

cleared. Some of the acres still have to

be cleared on that map. I don't know

which --

MR. WHEELER: All we would. like to no

to have an answer about the 30 acres

and then we will address ourselves to how

much is cleared and how much is unclear.

MR. DANZIG: All the land that is not

pledged in the area I promised at that

meeting to try and free for community

sponsors.

MR. WILLIAMS: The problem is land.



32

If you can t t get land that is unpledged,

what are you prepared to do?

MR. DANZIG: We are talking about the

Parker tract, are we not?

MR. WILLIAMS: I asked a specific

direct question.

MR. DANZIG: I am prepared to try and

free the land for community development,

yes.

MR. WILLIAMS: You are prepared to

try and free cleared land? What cleared

land?

MR. DANZIG: I am trying to identify

it, that which is not identified on that

map. We went through this item by item,

number by number, if you recall, and I

suppose that you folks used those numbers

and added it up and it comes to 30 some

odd acres.

MR. WILLIAMS: We did not. Ours was

based on housing needs. If you are going

to take down more houses, those people



33

that will be there must have land

available for housing to go into. That

means available for expansion.

MR. DANZIG: What I said to you is,

number one, all the land that is cleared

now that is not identified on that map I

will try to unfree, that isn't pledged,

or make free for community development.

All the land that will be cleared in the

future in R-6 will be the same way. So,

I don't know how much land is cleared

and how much land is not from that map

there.

MR. WILLIAMS: How are we supposed

to know?

MR. DANZIG: You identified 34 and

I asked you simply --

MR. WILLIAMS: Ours was a total based

on needs. It doesn't matter where it is

in the city.

Is there other land other than R-6

and Fairmont that is available?



:4

MR. DANZIG: No. We talked about,

that at another meet Lrig.

MR. WILLIAMS : I don t t know where a.1

the land is in the city but we need land

for houses and that is the position right

now.

MR. DANZIG: I can't manufacture land

overnight. There is land, however, with

building on it.

MR. WHEELER: Can we come back to an

affirmative or negative answer to the

question of whether tnere are 30 acres of

available land immediately available for

public nonprofit corporations to build

housing and in some cases --

MR. DUNGAN : That is not committed?

MR. WHEELER: -- and in some cases

housing-commercial? That is the first

thing.

MR. DANZIG: Whatever land is marked

there as pledged to Parker I promise to

try to unfree from Parker to get out of



.,5

his hands and put it in the community's

hands.

MR. WHEELER: Would you ask him

whether Or not there are 30 acres that

are unpledged?

MR. DANZIG: That goes for the land

=pledged and it also goes for future

land that is made available.

MR. DUNGAN ; Can you tell me offhand

whether there are 30 acres of such land

available and pledged and cleared in the

R-6 tract?

MR. DANZIG: No, I can't, but I did

say that I would free the cleared land

that is pledged to Parker and that I

would make available to the community for

community sponsored housing that land

which will be cleared in the future.

In short, what I intend to do is to try

and get Parker to assign to a community

group or to community groups that land on

which he has not guilt, on which he has



36

H

no commitment, on which he has no

situations.

MRS. EPPERSOLL; I would like to

say to Mr, Danzig that I had a talk with

Mr. Cadmus tonight. We must end this

thing tonight. So, if you will let us

know about the land now so we can finish

these long meetings and get finished

with it because you said you are going

to try to free the land. This is only

holding these people up. They are ready

to begin like yesterday to build this

school and we are ready for them to come

on in. So, give us an answer so that

they can start.

MR. DANZIG: I have pledged and I

told you that I had one discussion with

Parker on the long distance telephone and

it didn't seem to me that I would have

any problem and when I get my hands on

him face to face, I think I can get him

to give up that --



31

MRS.EPPERSOLL: Then we will have

lost the medical school by then.

MR. t'ANZIG: I don t t think so.

MRS. EPPERSOLL: I do. Dr. Cadmus

said that we would lose it.

MR. DANZIG: I have not held up

the medical.school. This is the sixth

of a series of meetings.

MRS. EPPERSOLL: Tonight is at your

doing.

MR. WALKER: I would like to take

some issue with Mr. Danzig. He said not

to lay the responsibility at his door.

If the community needs had been addressed

originally, we wouldn t t be sitting here

tonight and I think, you know, once again

if we are going to get this thing off the

ground and meet the deadline of the

medical college, Mr. Danzig is going to

have to make a firm commitment to the

group here now. He is talking about

future needs and future houses coming



Sri

down. As the houses come down, then

community needs will then increase.

Now, if we are talking about here

and now, we are talking about 54 acres

or 50 acres, let's get the 50 acres

first and then let's ask for more land

at that point in time. But I think that,

you know, right now at this moment the

burden of responsibility lies on your

shoulders, Mr. Danzig, not the groups.

MR. WHEELER: I repeat a very

simple question. Is there 30 acres

of unpledged land that can be committed

to a public nonprofit community group

for the building of housing, in some

instances housing-commercial? That is

all we want.

MR. DANZIG: Of course there is.

I have said that.

MR. MOORE: Where?

MR. DANZIG: In our sixth.

MR. DUNGAN: Let me be very clear,



39

then, Mr. Danzig.

MR. DANZIG: Let me add it up, please.

MR. DUNGAN: Yes.

MR. DANZIG: There is partial 23, 4.27

acres.

You are talking about cleared land

now?

MR. WILLIAMS: If it is not cleared,

then we will have to adjust the acreage to

take care of the people.

MR. WHEELER : Accordingly.

MR. DANZIG: There is marked " commercial "

another 4.6, Item 21; there is 2.4 -- you

want just cleared and uncleared?

MR. MILLER: Just deal with the cleared

first.

MR. DANZIG: There is this marked

acreage,. 8B

MR. BROWN: 3.99 acres.

MR. DANZIG: What is 7B, please? I

don't think this whole thing is cleared

but that is substantially cleared so that



4O

we can talk about it.

MR. WILLIAMS: TB is not cleared

between Broom Street and Prince Street.

That is not cleared.

MR. DANZIG: I think that is the one

that is cleared. It is the one down

here that is not cleared. That is

cleared.

MR. WHEELER : Junius, let us not

make that judgment. If he tells us it

is clear, that is clear.

MR. DANZIG: Part of this is clear.

MR. MOORE: That.. is roughly 15 acres.

MR. DANZIG: Yes, that is all that is

cleared. Everything else is either built

on or under construction.

MR. WHEELER: Let's take the uncleared

land that is not clear.

MR. DANZIG: That which is unclear?

MR. WHEELER: Uncleared, yes.

MR. DANZIG: All right. Item 28, 2.4.

MR. MOORE: That is not cleared. Is

that right?



41

MR. DANZIG: Yes. Item Number 21,

4.0; Item Number 33, 3.0. That is 3

uncleared. 7C is how many acres, .5?

MR. MILLER: That is still cleared

land.

MR. DANZIG: We have a plan for the

Green Acres Park with the State of

New Jersey. That is all ready. If it

is the community's desire to cut it back,

that is all right with me. All this has

to be redesigned anyhow.

MR. WHEETRR: That is cleared. Is

that correct? And that is Parcel 25?

MR. DANZIG: Yes. Parcel 25.

MR. WHEELER: So, that is 28. We

are now talking about, whether the

uncleared, only 31 acres of land. There

is 22 that is clear.

MR. DANZIG: Now we are down to

identification. This I think we can

extract from Parker by assignment to

appropriate community sponsored



42

organizations which is what I said the

last time. I repeat it again today but

I cannot make a commitment without knowing

what I am talking about. I don't know

where they got the 34 acres. Now I

begin to understand a little more. I

can't make a commitment here and then have

to say whether this is that way. I can't

do it.

MR. DAVIDSON: I thought we said

something else about Parcel 23 to 26,

that through a redesign of this entire

area it may be possible to include the

school along with additional housing.

MR. DANZIG: Correct.

MR. WHEELER: That is correct. And

we used that figure as a result of that.

MR. DANZIG: If you want to put

in these figures on that kind of a basis,

I will go along with it. I did say that

whole area had to be redesigned in the

light of what has taken place.



MR. DUNGAN: Would you include the

23 parcel in that?

MR. DANZIG: If they are willing to

do that. I understand it is a difficult

thing. If the YMCA people are willing --

MR. WILLIAMS: Could I make a

suggestion? There are several parcels

here and following up on what Mike said

about redesign, I think we have to

realize that along with housing we want

related facilities. Now, with the .

scattering and the design of the parcels

as they now stand, some of that will be

virtually impossible. I do see two huge

pieces here such as the Charlton Street

school, the Quitman Street school --

MR. WHEELER : That is over here.

MR. WILLIAMS: The new Charlton Street

school. For instance, I think it would be

good if we try to redesign these parcels

here so that you can take into consideration

a need for a school, a need for housing and



a need for some green grass around the

housing.

MR. DANZIG: That is right.

MR. WHEELER: Which brings me to the

point that this should be included.

MR, MILLER: This 5.80 acres should

be included so --

MR. DANZIG: Gentlemen, I don't

wish to appear to be recalcitrant but I

think these things need to be worked out.

We have pledged a new Charlton Street

school site. They require five acres

they say. If it can be redesigned to

incorporate housing and other related

uses, we are delighted about it. I said

earlier that this area needed to be --

MR. LUNGAN: How many acres is that?

MR. WHEELER: It comes to 28.5.

MR. DANZIG: Chancellor, if you add

it up, you have got more than 40 acres.

MR. MILLER: What is this here?

MR. DANZIG: That is the Prudential



45

"2"

apartments. "NA" is not to be acquired,

both those huge blocks. There are four

schools in the area and that is a school,

that is Montgomery and that is Morton

over there.

. MR. DUNGAN: As I calculate it, we

have roughly 9 acres of presently uncleared

land that we have identified plus about

22.3 acres of cleared land.

MR. DANZIG: More than that. With

a redesign, we are talking about over 40

acres. Now we are getting down to cases.

MR. FARBER: How much is it now?

MR. DAVIDSON: Is that entire 23 to

26 area cleared or is that partially

cleared? -

MR. MOORE: 2T.35. '

MR. DANZIG: Pardon me.

MR. DAVIDSON: Mr. Danzig, the

parcel numbers 23 through 26, is that

area cleared?

MR. DANZIG: 23 is cleared.



46

r

MR. WILLIAMS: 23A is cleared, 23 and

23A.

MR. DAVIDSON: What about the other

parcels in that area?

MR. DUNGAN: 25.

MR. DAVIDSON : 24, 25, 26

MR. DANZIG: 24 is pledged to the

Boys , Club, 25 is pledged for a park

with the Green Acres.

MR. DAVISON: The question is is it

clear?

MR. WHhELER: This is clear.

MR. DANZIG: Part of it is clear.

MR. WILLIAMS: We can redesign that.

MR. DANZIG: First of all, Charlton

Street school lies in that area while the

land around Charlton is clear. They are

going to take the highway through here.

Now, we are talking closer to 40 acres.

MR. DUNGAN: As I can sum up, we

have identified about 37 acres only 9

of which has houses on it at the present



4't

time, is uncleared, which could be used

• -for. housing or for mixed use, housing

and related use, schools, et cetera, which,

as I understand Mr. Danzig t s position,

subject to negotiation with Parker that

he thinks would be successful, could be

released.

MR. DANZIG: And subject to the

redesign of the schools and all of that.

MR. DUNGAN: Right, and subject to

the redesign on the mixed use thing which

could be used for community housing.

MR. WILLIAMS: When can we be sure

that . this redesigning and this freeing

and clearing is okay?

MR. WHEELER: Is in fact a fact.

MR. MOORE: So that we don't find

we thought we understood one commitment

tonight and tomorrow night it turns out

to be something else.

MR. DANZIG: I have not altered my

position one iota.



I made this promise, I will keep the

promise. I just wanted to be certain as

to what we were talking about. I merely

wanted to identify the parcels from the

map.

MR. MOORE: I think what we are

really, getting at is that you have

indicated that you have had success in.

the past in freeing land from Jack Parker

for other entities.

MR. DANZIG: Right.

MR. MOORE: And we want to make sure

that you have the same amount of success

with Jack Parker again freeing it as

relates to the community.

MR. DANZIG: I will rely on the muscle

of the community which I didn't have in the

other instances for success and I am sure

with the muscle of the community I will

be successful.

MR. DUNGAN: Let me ask you something,

Mr. Danzig. Would it be fair in order to



resolve this matter, I hope, would it be

fair to say that these 37 acres, subject

to redesign, will be available for

community housing?

MR. DANZIG: Yes.

MR. WHEELER: May I make this clear

also that the point of the matter Is that

only at best 12 acres of the 37 fall

within what we are talking about,

redesigning.

MR. MOORE: 7.21 falls within the

redesign area. Let's make sure we are

talking about the same thing. 7.21 acres

falls within the redesigned area, that is

all.

MR. DUNGAN: If I may ask, Mr. Williams,

you said you did not think that was

sufficient, that assertion by myself on

behalf of Mr, Danzig.

MR. WILLIAMS: I don't doubt that

you word is good, Mr. Dungan, I am just

saying that the type of commitment that we



50

want should be in writing.

MR. WHEELER: And it ought to be in

a letter to you flowing from you,

Mr. Danzig, subject to this, subject to

the discussion at the last session,

et cetera, et cetera.

MR. DANZIG: I think you should

prepare it, Mr. Wheeler. As a matter

of fact, Chancellor, I would like to

make a forthright statement, as usual.

I would like to again..urge upon the

Committee that they formulate their

broad based umbrella group so that we

can enter into contracts. There is a

record here and Junius on the Fairmont

acres asked me forthrightly if that

was a commitment and because it was not

pledged I was able to say forthrightly

that that is a commitment and this is

the commitment and, as I said before,

in other areas, Parker has disgorged,

he will disgorge here because we have



51

more muscle.

MR. WILLIAMS: There is only one

problem about that kind of a statement

because there are other political entities

involved here, namely, the City of Newark

with regard to that park and also the

City of Newark with the Board of Education

with regard to the new Charlton Street

school. So, it is not just enough to

say that there will be a redesign. We

have got to have more than that.

MR. DANZIG: Junius, I cannot

speak --

MR. WILLIAMS: I don't want you to

speak now, I want you to go back and then

come back.

MR. DANZIG: I can't speak for the

Charlton Street school although I have had

discussions with the superintendent and

he would like to incorporate schools and

housing development.

MR. DUNGAN: I think I understand and



52

Mr. Danzig understands the position of the

negotiating group on this and I think that

what weought to do is --

MR. DANZIG: Formulize.

MR. WHEELER: By an exchange of

letters.

MR. DANZIG: I would like the

Committee to leave the room and draft a

letter. If I agree to it, it spells out

what we have agreed to here, I will sign

it tonight so that no one will accuse me

of holding up the medical school.

Mr. Chancellor, let's not lose the

momentum. Let's get into relocations and

make a similar transaction. Let's get on

with the business.

MR. DUNGAN: Why don't you do that?

MR. DAVIDSON: I want to make some

general points. Go ahead and I will try

drafting a letter. We have talked about

R-6 but it is one among many projects and

not that we necessarily have to identify



53

parcels in these sessions in other

projects but I think we have to reach

some understanding of the way in which

other projects will be developed. The

54 acres were stated as our estimate

of needs for the first stage of a

relocation program, that is housing

people who will be displaced by all

forms of public action in the very near

.future, but people are going to be

displaced over many years and our

estimate is -- and this is subject now

to some variation -- our best estimate

is that 250 acres will be needed. It

seems to me from the experience of

looking at R-6 that one of the serious

problems is land designated for

commercial use exclusively and that I

think what we have to do now is to put a

stop to that. The housing is the first

priority. Commercial use is necessary

but wherever possible it should be



54

integrated in housing developments in all

of the other projects.

Now my memory needs to be refreshed

about our discussions, what we agreed

' upon in terms of stopping negotiations,

but I would propose that we stop all

negotiations now for conveyances of land

for commercial.purposes and take a look

at all of the urban renewal projects

throughout the City of Newark to see

where these projects can be integrated

successfully with housing development.

MR. DANZIG: I cannot stop the

meadow lands project which is industrial

and not fit, that area, for human

habitation in which there is hardly any

dislocation.

MR. MOORE: I think we ruled out the

meadow lands before. Stop being facetious.

MR. DANZIG: I am not, the man said,

" Look over all of the projects. '

MR. MOORE : We had agreed we did not



55

want to get involved in meadow land

projects. ate threw that out.

MR. DANZIG: Please, the man said all

of it.

MR. WHEELER: He is talking about

the City of Newark.

REVEREND PERRY: I am getting

confused here more and more. Each time

we reach a conclusion and try to settle

on something, then we come up with

something new. Now, what I am saying is

this: I thought now we were dealing with

the 30 acres of land. Is that right?

MR. DUNGAN: That is correct,Sir.

REVEREND PERRY: We are together on

this, right?

MR. DUNGAN: Yes.

REVEREND PERRY: Certainly we can

sit here and think of a million other

things that need to be done and yet our

specific attention now is drawn to the

30 acres and we can move on something



else if we can agree with that.

MR. DAVIDSON: The reason I brought

up what I did, I am going to go out and

try to draft a letter concerning the 30

acres but based on our experience here

we can anticipate problems we are going

have in the future in assuring that

the 250 or more acres of land which will

be necessary for the entire relocation

program are available. If there are

actions that we can take now to ensure

that we are not going to run into the

kinds of problems we have now, then we

ought to take this action.

REVEREND PERRY:. Wouldn't that come

under the umbrella group that they are

supposed to establish?

MR. DANZIG: The umbrella group-we

are talking about -- I will not sign a

letter for the 54 acres, I will sign a

letter for the balance of the land in R-6

and also Fairmont which is over 50 acres,



5(

close to 60 acres. Put it both in the

letter. That is what we agreed to.

MR. DUNGAN: Wait a minute. I think

Mr. Davidson, as the Reverend suggests,

Mr. Davidson is suggesting much broader

problems. I can well understand why

the negotiating group as any good

negotiating group would would try to

enlarge the area of discussion here, not

because it is illegitimate, I think it

happens to be quite legitimate, that

what the group is talking about is

providing a permanent machinery for the

community to have Lis view spelled out

on the question of land reuse in the

. City of Newark.

MR. MOORE: Ralph, lest you make a

mistake, let me eee if my memory has

been refreshed. I think I heard Mr. Danzig

say at one point in his dialogue tonight

that he has ceased negotiation for

commercial land we had discussed previously.



58

Did I hear you right, Mr. Danzig?

MR. DANZIG: In R-6 and in the

Fairmont projects.

MR. DUNGAN: I submit to you as I

described today, it seems to me that

what we have been doing for the last

few weeks is the first phase of a

continuing dialogue between the

community of Newark and the City, local

and State and Federal authorities. I

don't think, if I may say so, Mr. Davidson,

as the Reverend has suggested that we

should put a stop on the progress that

we have made with respect to the medical

school and to related problems in order

to resolve definitively the consequences.

MR. DAVIDSON: I am not suggesting

that, I am suggesting that we are learning

an awful lot about the source of our

problems now and if on the basis of that

knowledge and the experience of the last

several weeks we can take actions which



5')

will prevent these, problems from arising

in the future, because the 50 acres will

provide houses for people being displaced

over the next two years, there are plans

to displace people over a five-year

period. It is not that we need

commitments at this table for specified

acreage outside of the 50 but if we can

reach an understanding of the ways of

preventing the kind of difficulties that

we now have, when we do sit down six

months from now in another context or a

year from now in another context, we

won't have to go through the kind of

analysis which says that this land is

pledged and that land is pledged and,

there is a contract here and there is an

understanding there. We can prevent

that now. And I think if we have

enough knowledge out on the table to

formulate the way of preventing that,

we ought to take that step.



14

oO

MR. DANZIG: Somewhat in response,

I would like to say that almost the rest

of our projects with the exception of one,

NJ R-32, carry very little displacement-

of families and I think that is what we

are really addressing ourselves to and

.this'all started by the Committee against

removal. - And to the extent, if you please,

sir,.-and ladies and gentlemen, to the

extent that we do any displacement of

'people per se in projects that are

designed for clearance and housing

- relocation, there isn t t any reason why

we can't have community participation,

community sponsorship, community

ownership and community say. I have no

objection to that.

MR. MOORE: Will you commit yourself

to that?

MR. DANZIG: I say I have no objection

to it and I will be glad to deal with an

umbrella group on such things that involve

substantial . displacement and housing



6i
reconstruction.

MR. WHEELER: Counselor, Mr. Danzig's

thesis presupposes that the only housing

needs in. Newark today are those that

flow from the problem of dislocation as

it relates to various projects that are

in existence and I submit that there is

a far greater need exclusive of the

relocation problem that we must address

ourselves to and all Mr. Davidson is

saying is that in principle we ought to

agree tonight to do something about

providing that thA is necessary so that

we can be assured that housing will be

the number one priority not only in

terms of relocation of people flowing

from the highway projects and other

projects but in terms of what is Newark's

basic need, And the basic need of the

town is adequate housing.

MR. DANZIG: I think I should also

make this as a point that in the future



o2

I don't think that we will be able to

obtain any money for . anything in urban

renewal outside of model cities. Model

cities I submit is projected as a housing

reuse area and thatmodel city project,

if.I may be permitted to say so, there is

written in the law community participation

and I understand that there is also

already an agreement with the City that

the community will have equal power, veto

power, it has been said.

MR. DUNGAN: May I ask Mr. Beckett

a question on this point? Is it fair to

assume, Mr. Beckett, that the Federal

agency which provides money for urban

renewal in the future will insist that

housing be given priority in land reuse

patterns in Newark?

MR. BECKETT: Let me answer you this

way, that as far as you are concerned,

any urban renewal application that is

submitted to us, including those pending,



63

must demonstrate relocation feasibility

and has been expressed here tonight and

previously, the greatest need in Newark

is the provision of new housing to

supplement that which will be available

in existing supply.

MR. DUNGAN: So you will agree with

Mr. Wheeler's point that any land reuse

under urban renewal would give priority

not only to the relocation problem but

to the intrinsic housing shortage , in

Newark.

MR. BECKETT: Where it is feasible

and where it is compatible to sound

planning, yes.

MR. DUNGAN: If I may say so,

Mr. Danzig, as to your point, you now

have a Federal commitment not to put

money into Newark unless housing is

given high priority.

MR. BECKETT: As has been said, it

is one of the national goals and this



64

goes beyond the model city.

MR. WHEELER: But some people forget

about the national goals.

MR. BECKETT: That is a very good

point.

MR. WALKER: Unfortunately, in the

past we have had commitments from

various government agencies and, low and

behold, that individual who has made.the

commitment suddenly is no longer there.

We have gone through this. Now, I would

suggest here that the thing that

Mr. Wheeler is addressing himself to

here is that we should have it written

in here and I don't think Mr. Danzig

should object to this. You know, we

are thinking in terms of businesses. I

think our poverty here is housing. And,

you know, Mr. Danzig slipped a word in

there " where feasible. " You know, I

don't like the " feasible. " Either it

is or it is not. And I think at this



65

table here tonight that a definite

determination should be made that priority

be given to housing..

MR. DUNGAN: Mr. Walker, may I call

this to your attention? It may not be

precisely what you had in mind but one

of the matters that was in our memorandum

which was tabled some time ago but which

I understand Mr. Danzig agreed to read

as follows: " The Newark Housing Authority

agreed to meet-with a representative

umbrella group from the community to, "

among other things, " review the priorities

and direction of urban renewal in Newark,

in particular, with regard to the need

for greatly increased housing construction,

public and private, especially units for

large families. "

Now, this is on the record, it

represents a commitment I think, as I

.understand it.

MR. WHEELER: May I read just one



66

other thing?

MR. DUNGAN: Yes.

MR. WHEELER: " The Newark Housing

Authority further agrees that it will

suspend all negotiations and make no

further commitments on land in the

NJ R-6 and NJ R-72 tracts pending the

formation of the aforesaid representative

community group, provided that said

group shall be formed within a reasonable

time." It had nothing to say about the

limitation.

MR. DANZIG: I made no further

commitments.

MR. DUNGAN: It is on the record.

MR. WHEELER: He said he did not say

it.

MR. DANZIG: I said I would make

no further commitments. I am talking

about existing ones.

MR. BROWN: And suspend all other

negotiations.



67

MR. DANZIG: I have no other

negotiations.

MR. WILLIAMS: I would like to

add a paragraph to the letter we are

drafting tonight which would incorporate

what the corporation does which says,

"The umbrella group will be able to

negotiate for mixed usage of urban.

renewal projects to further meet the

housing needs of the people, " because

as our original statement suggested,

based on our studies, at least 200

additional acres of land is necessary.

So, we would like to have that

incorporated, negotiations, not

commitments.

MR. DANZIG: There is more than 200

acres in the project.

MR. WILLIAMS: Will you agree with

this in principle?

MR. DANZIG: Then we have to talk

about those areas.



68

MR. MOORE: He agreed to that.

MR. DANZIG: I have agreed with it

in R-6 and Fairmont and such other "

projects that are scheduled for housing

reuse for community development and then

we have to get into definition. I will

run through all the projects like I

tried to do and we put in the meadow

lands and we put in the community college

and we . put in Penn Plaza --

MR. WILLIAMS: Can we put that in

the letter, this paragraph in the letter

about negotiations with the community

corporation about use of urban renewal

and for housing and mixed people? '

MR. DANZIG: For housing reuse

areas, of course.

I would like to make one point clear,

Mr. Williams, when you talked about the

umbrella group and twice you made reference

to a corporation, was that because you

have in mind a corporate form or was that



69

a general use of the term "corporate '" ?

MR. WILLIAMS: Well, if there is

going to be --

MR. DANZIG: A body corporate?

MR. WILLIAMS: No, I mean a

nonprofit corporately sponsored, that

is what I meant.

MR. MOORE: But we were not talking

about them being the negotiators.

MR. DUNGAN: The umbrella group is

a different thing than the sponsoring

group which would be a corporate entity.

As I understand the umbrella group, it

is a broadly --

MR. WHEELER: What they do is spin

off the corporate.

MR. DUNGAN : Right, actually do the

business.

MR, WHEELER: I don't want to come

back on this again because I will be

real excited. I want it to be crystal

clear.



70

MR. DUNGAN: I don't think there is

any question. Mr. Danzig has seen this

document, agreed to it the other night

and has agreed to it today.

MR. DANZIG: I have said- I will be

very glad to have the umbrella group

in with the discussion so that we will

have true community involvement.

MR. DUNGAN: As you all pointed

out, future land is beyond that.

DR. CADMUS: I have been listening

to the conversation in respect to the.

business of the meadows. Am I correct

in assuming that the relocation of the

individuals in the college site does not

depend upon the development and construction

of housing in this area that we are talking

about tonight?

MR. DUNGAN: My understanding is

that . the agreement is that no person will

be moved from the 46 acre tract unless

, satisfactory housing arrangements are



71

made either through housing constructed

in the Fairmont tract, in R-6 or by

normal relocation methods. The commitment

is that nobody moves until there is an

adequate house available to him. What

.we are doing by this negotiation is

trying to provide land on which more

housing can be built for this relocation

as well as others. Is that correct?

DR. CADMUS: Obviously the question

concerns the delay and would either

Mr. Beckett or Mr. Danzig address

themselves to that question? Are we

likely to be held up one, two or more

years now after the decision?

MR. DANZIG: On the 46 acres?

DR. CADMUS: On the 46 acre site.

MR. DANZIG: No. We have the

demonstrable ability to relocate these .

number of families in about a year.

MR. DAVIDSON: We aren t t sure of

that and it will depend to a large



72

extent on the program that Mr. Beckett

brings in. We have to evaluate that, we

will have to show that they may be able

to relocate some people on the business

facilities and others will have to wait

for the housing.

MR. DUNGAN: It seems to me what

is important here is to pledge that

nobody gets relocated until a house

is available, for him.

DR. CADMUS: I would also like to

say that there is also a problem that

we have which may make that unacceptable

if it is too much of a delay.

MR. DUNGAN: I don't think anybody

can guarantee at this point, Dr. Cadmus,

that a delay will occur. Mr. Danzig

claims he can relocate the people,

Mr. Davidson claims he has some

question about that and it seems to me

we have to let the thing go. We do

stand by our commitment and I think you



73

made this point yourself the other

evening that it is not your intention

that anyone should move from that tract --

DR. CADMUS: That is right.

MR. DUNGAN: -- until they have a

house available.

'DR. CADMUS: That is right. That

stands on itself, but also the second

thing that stands-on itself is whether

it is feasible to wait that long for

this development. This is my only

point, that if we have to wait for

housing to be developed, this is a new

formula and it changes the timetable

as it has been given to the college in

the past.

MR. BLAKELY: In keeping with

Dr. Cadmus' remarks -- my name is

Robert Blakely -- what I want to state

is specifically pertaining to the

Fairmont area, we have people here

tonight and there have been people here



74

before living in that area who have been

disturbed, losing money, lost tenants,

some are paying mortgages, all are paying

taxes and their income has been cut

sharply altogether. Now, they are

suffering and in keeping with what

Dr. Cadmus says, also that element will

suffer unless something is done

immediately. Now, what can be done

immediately? I think the school gave

up 4.7 acres in the Fairmont area which

we deemed could be used for housing.

That being so, according to a very

alert and well-qualified architect, that

is enough ground already clear to house

adequately and satisfactorily all

elements of people in that area now that

would be displaced by the 46 acres or

whatever it is that Dr. Cadmus mentioned,

not all of them but a great majority.

Now, the architect is here but I am

trying to explain that in total to you



3

'75

in a professional manner. In the

meantime, these people would like to

know what they can do. Can they get a

letter from someone and take It down to

the City Hall and to other people holding

mortgages on their property which will

help them to have some peace and can

this be done in such a way that it will

not be a long drawn out matter of a year?

Secondly to that, if these people in

this area form a nonprofit corporation

of their own to sponsor their own

housing, if they do that, would that be

acceptable to anyone and everyone in here?

The money is already available to them

or to any likely sponsored organization.

We have allotted to us $15 million

dollars from the Prudential Insurance

Company to guarantee to them the money

for the building of these homes.

Now, these things all being within

the focus and ready, what we want to



76

know -- and I think that is appropos to

what Dr. Cadmus said -- is what can be

done not only to ease the school's

attitude which certainly must be so

dramatic but to ease the feeling of

these people. They are here now and

they are suffering. What can be done?

MR. STERNS: 'I would like to respond

generally on the relocation because I think

there is a little bit misinterpretation

about the roles of acres we' have been

talking about tonight. It should be said

that the relocation plans of the Newark

Housing Authority I am quite sure and the

things that we in the State have been

talking about have not, up until this

point, dwelt on these acres and on the

Fairmont acres as relocation resources.

Now, it may very well be that they could

apply a role as relocation resources and

there is certainly no question that they

are needed for residential use. But the



77

program that we are talking about for

relocation, about the 500 families or so

who are on the 46 acres now contemplates

housing that is presently under

construction in other areas . of the city,

contemplates public housing, contemplates

leased housing that is. available to be

leased immediately out of the existing

housing supply here and elsewhere and

contemplates a State rent supplement

program on existing housing already. .

Now, you may raise the point -- and I

think that is one of the things we are

discussing here -- that all of that

added up may still not relocate 500

families. Now, we will only know about

that in practice and if that does turn

out to be the truth, then we may well get

into this. But in the basic planning of

the City of Newark at this moment, these

are not essential elements to the

relocation. This would be in addition.



- 78

One other point that I do want to

make is that of type of dwelling. If we

are talking about garden-type apartments

for housing construction and we are

talking about cleared land, it is

possible that that kind of housing could

be available within nine months of the

time on which you could sign a statement.

So, we are not necessarily talking about

a year or two years or anything like that,

where we are talking about cleared land.

MISS MAYFIELD: Mr. Chancellor and

to the body, I would like to ask this

. information, please. My sister and I

live in the medical site on Newton

Street and, of course, we welcome the

school and we have never been opposed

to it. We have been told all last year

from June up until October from the City

Hall that they would be prepared and pay

us for the property so we could move out.

Now, we don't know who to believe. We



79

read the papers and we didn't receive a

letter but we don't know what to do.

We are all packed and ready and we just

want to get out. It wouldn't take us

long to shop around. There are other

families that feel the same way.

Our property is paid for. We don't

owe a dime on it but we are losing rent

money because a family moved out the

31st of last January and we never rerented

it and we have lost all of that rent which

has been more than a year; But we have

not complained, not at all, and neither

did we come down to ask for confusion.

All we ask and all we would like to know --

I voice a sentiment for other families

living in that block -- will this 46 acres

be given to the school or whatever could

be done so we can get paid for our

property and go to our new location which

we would like so much to have?

MR. DUNGAN: Yes, ma'am, these two



80

other ladies have a similar problem to

yours and we discussed it the other

evening. Let me see if I can help you.

As soon as the 46 acres are conveyed to

the urban renewal people, there will be

funds available almost immediately,

within 30 days -- is that correct,

Mr. Beckett -- within 30 days to

purchase the properties in the 46 acre

tract so that you and people similarly

situated can move quickly.

MISS MAYFIELD: Mr. Chancellor, I

would like to ask you this, please.

How soon will this be? How soon will

you expect, this year, another month or

so or when? I just want to know because

we want to know where we stand and what

to expect.

MR. DUNGAN: I am very hopeful that

this will occur within the next 30 days.

MISS MAYFIELD: We can expect it

within the next 30 days?



81

MR. DANZIG: It is not possible to

pay money within 30 days.

MR. DUNGAN: I am sorry, the lands

will be conveyed within 30 days.

MR. DANZIG: No, no, no. This is

not a Housing Authority project yet. I

tried to make this, to borrow a phrase

from Mr. Wheeler, crystal clear, that we

are not in land operations. We have a

Part I filed that hinges upon the

conclusion of these meetings. We still

have a public hearing to come off with

which will take two or three weeks after

these meetings are concluded and

substantiating agreements are reached,

then hopefully we are already dealing

with the HUD people for early land

acquisition money which I hope will be

made available shortly thereafter. And

I can tell you here and now that the

way things are going, it will not, we

couldn't pay out a nickel until at least



,n

82

90 days. We haven ► t any money.

MR. DUNGAN: Is that correct?

MR. DEVRON: I am the area coordinator

out.of Philadelphia. Maybe I can try to

tell you what our position is right now

on the application, et cetera, what the

procedures are thereafter. Mr. Beckett

will discuss with you the relocation

matters and after that has been resolved --

I hope that that will take place this

week -- I am safe in saying that we have

right now an application which is

essentially approvable, hopefully should

be funded by our central office in

Washington shortly. I am hoping, that

means, within a couple of weeks. Then

the next step is the scheduling of the

public hearing. Immediately upon the

holding of the public hearing, this is

the second phase of the application and

you can again be assured that this is

- going to receive the top priority in our



83

office. Upon acceptance of that, the

central office will authorize us to

enter into a long grant contract with

Mr. Danzig and permit him to borrow

funds.

MR. DANZIG: After Part II.

MR. DEVRON: After Part II and to

borrow funds from us. So, I will say

we are talking approximately two, three

weeks after the public hearing funds

will be available for Mr. Danzig to

acquire properties.

MR. DUNGAN: If the public hearings

could be held in two weeks and we are

talking about two to three weeks afterward,

I don't think my estimate of 30 days is

so far off. It all depends, ma'am, if I

may say so, on how quickly we can get the '

public hearing which then sets in train

the long grant agreement which Mr. Devron

referred to.

MR. DANZIG: I am sorry to disagree



814

with you, Mr. Dungan, we have been doing

this for 25 years and if you don't mind,

it will take between two and three weeks

if we are permitted to hold a public

hearing tomorrow. It will take then the

approval of Part I. After that -- and I

don't know how long that will take --

they tell me their boys could give

immediate approval -- then we have to

make an application for early land

acquisition money in advance of loan

and grant after which we have to get

Federal approvals in writing for every

parcel before we can pay out. And it

is still my considered judgment that if

we were given the go ahead tonight to

call a public hearing, we would not have

money in the hands of the people at the

earliest in much less than 90 days. That

is not because we do not want to --

MR. DUNGAN: I understand.

MR. DANZIG: If they were to give us



the money tomorrow, we would begin to

pay it out.

MR. DEVRON: Mr. Malafronte and I

conversed about this the other evening.

My understanding of the conversation

was that if the hearing is held and if it

is clear that the HUD people are going

to enter into the agreement and make the

funds available that the City then would

be in a position to advance those funds.

Is that correct?

MR. MALAFRONTE: Yes..

MR. DANZIG: Do you have the money

in cash on hand or do you have to float

bonds?

MR. MALAFRONTE: We would have to

float bonds.

MR. DANZIG: How long does that take?

This is what.it is all about, $13 million,

$14 million. You are not talking about

$1.25.

MR. DUNGAN: Would you say six to



86

eight weeks?

MR. MALAFRONTE: Mr. Chancellor, if

I may, I think that our concern here is

to avoid a one or two or three or four

years' wait which has been common. I

think 90 days seems to me quite a

reasonable time. If we can get this

thing off in 90 days, I think there will

be nothing but hurrahs from everyone

concerned.

REVEREND PERRY: May I say this?

Let's face it, now, this lady and many

others in this area, 90 days doesn't

seem like anything to you but these

people in this area are suffering. They

are suffering every day. You look around.

They have still got to meet their mortgage

and the people have moved out and they

are losing money. They have still got to

come down to City Hall and pay their taxes.

So, to you, 30 days is nothing or 90 days,

but to them it is important.



87

You said the other night,

Mr. Malafronte, that.you were going to

discuss it and you would come back and

give us a report on what you could do,

what City Hall could do to ease the

suffering on these people. We haven't'

heard one word.

MR. MALAFRONTE: The report was

made to the Chairman which was that the

City was prepared, there was to be a

delay in the loaning grant, the City is

prepared to float bonds to pay the money

as quickly as possible. The City has

agreed to do that. It is prepared to

float special bonds to pay the people

if the loan grant is approved.

MR. DUNGAN: I think, Reverend and

ma'am, the most honest answer that we

can give you, Mr. Danzig suggests it will

be 90 days, Mr. Devron suggests that

that is a rather pessimistic time schedule,

I will stick my neck out and say 6o to 90



8F

days the people in the community, providing

the hearing is held and the land is

conveyed, that the people in the community

will receive payment for their housing.

MISS MAYFIELD: I certainly would

appreciate that very kindly because we

have had to pay our mortgage -- not our

mortgage -- we have had to pay taxes.

We were informed not to pay taxes,

had to pay taxes in January and December

and it is pretty hard to struggle but we

have managed because we are God-fearing

people and we are religious people and

God will always take care of his own.

But all we are asking -- now I do feel

better, knowing that we will be able to

receive pay for our properties so we can

move out. We are packed up and have been

packed for months and it is very, very --

in fact, I have just called every place

and I have just come down to ask please

if there is anything to be done, not only



89

}

for my sister and I, she is a widow and

we work and support ourselves but there

are others that feel the same way, they

want to get out. So, if they will just

pay us, we will relocate ourselves. So,

that will take the burden off the

community Committee and others. We will

get out ourselves.

MR. DUNGAN: Thank you very much.

MR. WILLIAMS: I would like to say

that the problem of money is very

important and would seem tome that

everyone would make an effort, everyone

with the power to do so would make an

effort to get this process streamlined.

Now, if the gentleman from HUD said 30

days, I think he does have some knowledge

on the situation and everyone should back

the 30-day figure for the benefit of the

people who would like to get their money.

Now, from the standpoint of the

timing.of the houses in the 24 acres of



90

Fairmont and in R-6, I agree'with

Mr. Davidson, I think that some cognizance

must be made of the fact, some recognition

must be made of the fact that people have

to have new houses in the City of Newark

if there is going to be suitable and

feasible relocation and I think that, to

address myself to Dr. Cadmus, I don't

think that when you start the medical

school you are going to tear down all the

houses in one day, I think timing is the

important thing here and I think the

timing can be fazed so that people

who do want to wait or people who have to

wait in order to get decent housing, that

can be worked out and I want to address

myself strictly to the timing because I

think all of that depends on the money.

Joel said 90 days from the time we agreed.

What kind of money is available?

MR. DUNCAN: Nine months.

MR. WILLIAMS: I am sorry, nine



9 1

months from the date of agreement that

there will be housing. What kind of

money is available to start working on

Fairmont and on R-6 and what is the

timing involved with each receipt of

money?

MR. STERNS: The Department of

Community Housing has a development for

housing and that development. for housing

would be available for housing in this

and in the Fairmont acres. Our position

is that we will make advances to

community groups who have a commitment

for lands so that there is a realistic --

and I don't mean a final commitment but

a commitment such as the one contemplated

here this evening that would be sufficient

enough so that the development would

advance money for architectural, legal

planning, et cetera, seed money generally,

and it would be part of the-long range

mortgage that would be placed on that



92

project, the mortgage to come to the

State Hcusing Agency or it can come from

the Federal Housing Agency._

MR. DUNGAN: I would like to make

a point in that connection. I agree

with what Dr. Cadmus said, the same with

Mr. Williams, the importance as quickly

as possible of forming community groups

who can be sponsors for local housing

in the Fairmont and the R-6 tract,

particularly the Fairmont tract which is

quickly available for construction, and

I think it is very, very important that

the community move forward in that area

as I am sure you would agree.

MR. WILLIAMS: I will agree whole-

heartedly.

MR. MOORE: There is a little item

here I think you ought to throw out to

straighten out.

MR. DANZIG: No, it isn't straightened

out. The Chancellor has said 30 days, I



93

said not much before 90 days and I have

just been handed a schedule from one of

my many chiefs, John Devron, the

supervisor of HUD in charge of Newark

who says that if we have a public hearing

on 3/21 -- that is three weeks from now --

that he can get a loan honored -- that

means we have to either get an

administrative loan or float bonds,

temporary loan notes -- by the middle

of May. That is if we have a public

hearing, that is if we decide tonight

on a public hearing at the earliest

possible moment which'I don't think the

Committee is ready to hold.

MR. DUNGAN: I understand the point

that you have been trying to make several

times.

MR. DANZIG: Mr. Moore wants me to

correct the record in the light of a

30-day promise.

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, I thought



94

you made it very clear to the people who

raised the questions that in your best

judgment it would be a period from 6o to

90 days, depending upon when the public

hearing is scheduled?

MR. DUNGAN: That is correct.

We will take a ten minute recess.

(Recess is taken.)

MR. DUNGAN: Ladies and gentlemen,

at the suggestion of the New Jersey

agencies and the negotiating team and

in an effort to expedite the final

decision on the location of the medical

school in Newark, I think Mr. Wheeler

would like to explain their suggestion

with respect-to setting a time for a

hearing.

MR. WHEELER: In an effort to

expedite the machinery that will ascertain

a medical college being directed in

Newark, we have suggested to Chancellor

Duncan that. from the day of the announcement



95

of the public hearing only ten days be

required to elapse before the hearing is

actually held. Now, this reduces the

time period in terms of custom by seven

days and this effort is designed to move

up the machinery, accelerate the

machinery so that those who seem to have

butterflies in their stomach can obviate

the butterflies and go away assured that

the medical college will be in Newark.

MR. DUNGAN: I might say the

agreement in this particular point was

reached in view of the fact that we have

had protracted public discussion of all

of the issues surrounding the medical

school and, really,' that the ten day

notice is a pro forma, if you will,

opportunity for any who have not had an

opportunity to talk to get their viewpoint

expressed. Dr. Cadmus had to leave

because he has an early plane to catch.

In the morning he has to go to an



96

accrediting meeting on the medical school

and, therefore, we are really not in a

position to push forward on something

that we had planned to talk about tonight

which is the related community health

facility. We have that and some final

agreements on the question of construction

labor, employment problem, and we propose

to adjoin the meeting here this evening

and take it up again on Friday evening.

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, if I may

interrupt, before we adjourn, we have

the letter for Mr. Danzig's affirmation.

MR. DUNGAN: I also want to say that

we have every expectation of HUD's

cooperation, of having HUD's version of

the relocation plan in the hands of the

negotiating team on Thursday so that

there will be ample time to review that

before our meeting on Friday evening.

MR. CHISSOLM: Early in the evening

Mr. Malafronte and I had a discussion



97

and it appears to me there is some

misunderstanding with respect to the

proposal put forward by the team as

regards the approach to the model cities

program. I wonder if we could take just

a moment to have that position restated

so we can be quite clear as to the

nature of that agreement?

MR. DUNGAN: I think that is a

very excellent suggestion.

MR. MALAFRONTE: I understand

the key point of the negotiating

committee was that the community had to

have a veto of the program and whatever

structure there was involved, that there

had to be veto community groups -- that

was the essence of the position -- and

that a substantial agreement could not

be possible until a veto power existed

or was somehow established with which we

concurred, that is a citizens' service

or whatever organization would be



developed would have that basic fact in

it, they could, and whatever structure

came out that the community could or would

participate in joint decision making,

meaning that if the community didn't

want a project or program that they could

veto it. As I understood it, the

substance of the matter was whatever

participation there was, it couldn't

be advisory, it couldn't be simply

window dressing, that it had to have

effective power to veto a program.

The question was put to us that that

essential point was not there and that

this was a deep community concern, in

plain English that they didn't want a

program that was dumped on them and

that they didn't care what the structures

were or this, that or the other thing,

that had to be the essence of it. To

this we agree since this group would

have veto power over any program in the



99

model cities.

Next there was a suggestion there

would be a broad based or ad hoc

committee which would participate in the

. construction of how that structure would

be developed and we were to await the

development of this group or assist or

work with or in some way help to develop

this ad hoc group to participate in how

the structure would come out and always

establishing first that no matter how

it would come out that there. would have

to be a veto power for whatever structure

came out.

MR. DUN=GAN: That is your position

which you agreed to. Is that right?

MR. MALAFRONTE: Oh, yes. We

agreed entirely that whatever structure

comes out, there would be a veto.

MR. DUNGAN: That is substantially

the way I understood the conversation.
MR. MALAFRONTE: That is not to say



100

that this ad hoc committee is the umbrella

group.

MR. WHEELER: The language for that

was that the ad hoc committee would be

primarily and preliminarily in nature

only to the full development of the

community represented structure for

model cities and that there would be

veto power on the part of the community.

As a matter of fact, we called it a

joint veto power to be exact.

MR. MALAFRONTE: That doesn't

mean your ad hoc committee has the veto

power, whatever structure you come up

with has the veto power.

MR. WHEELER: The veto has to do

with the established structure.

MR. MALAFRONTE: That has to have

it built-in which we accept entirely.
I_

MR. WILLIAMS: Are you saying that

you will enjoy a loan veto to the task

'force that we set up?



101

w

MR. ' MALAFRONTE: There is no veto

in the task force. As I understand it,

this does not stop us from, of course,

talking to other citizen groups and so

forth and so on because we are going to

have full participation of many groups,

as many groups as possible. We want to

talk to everybody but the veto is the

one that we have got to come up with.

MR. DUNCAN: Let me see if I can

understand this so that we are all on

the same wave length. My understanding

is that in advance of the time when the

umbrella group, together with the model

cities administration, develops the

broadly representative group which is.

the model city structure, that the ad hoc

committee will be in existence?

MR. MALAFRONTE: As other groups

are --

MR. DUNGAN: That when the

representative group which will become --



{

102.

MR. WHEELER: Just a moment. That is

not correct. "As other groups are " is an

addendum that was not in the previous

agreement. Now, the original was that

there would be this central ad hoc

committee purely to meet the substantial

agreement purposes of model cities so as

not to hold up the coming of the medical

school but with the understanding that

it was preliminary and that subsequently

we would develop the full public body

structure.

MR. DUNGAN: Correct.

MR. MALAFRONTE: Yes.

MR. WHEELER: You didn't say that.

MR. MALAFRONTE: You don't restrict

other groups. As you say, it is a

council, but there are no Puerto Rican

groups represented so that --.it is very

clear what I am talking about, I am

talking about Puerto Ricans. They are

not represented on this group and I have



103

already talked to the council of community

organizations,we have discussed at length

their participation and how they would

like to participate, we have discussed

that at length with the Greater Newark

Council and the Chamber of Council and

a variety of other groups that will

participate. As we said, the ad hoc

group will also participate. It is

impossible to restrict it to one group,

it is not legal.

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, if I may,

the thing that you have to understand is

that when we started, the idea was to get

a general cross section of representation

along with the city involved and we can't

get involved with numbers and there was

a preliminary ad hoc committee, that is

all, and it was not to usurp the right

of other community groups coming in

when the overall structure is developed

but now, for the purposes of this --



104

MR. DUNGAN: Of what?

MR. WHEELER : --. of what we are doing

now, it relates to immediately getting

together a preliminary ad hoc committee

and that is it. And it doesn't have firm

powers or structure. It has been - made

very clear that it is a preliminary

committee to the development of the

broader committee. And let's not get

involved in this question of task force.

The kind of community structure that we

are talking about is made up of a broad

based community representation without

being designated as a task force.

MR. MALAFRONTE: As I understood

another part of this, there was great

dissatisfaction with the established

task force which we, as I understand,

have agreed to set aside or to discuss

as part of this thing. I agreed to that.

What we are talking about here is T

cannot discontinue conversation with



105

the Greater Newark Chamber cf Commerce,

New Jersey College of Medicine, with

Rutgers, with the Council of Puerto Ricans

and so on because as you understand, the

model cities area includes roughly -- I

don't know -- hundreds and hundreds of

acres, it takes up one-third of the city,

it does not take up the medical school

situation but the ad hoc committee should

be certainly an important part. We want

to go forward with you and so forth and

so on.' Yes, I see no difference between

this.

MR. CHISSOLM! I think, so that it

will be quite clear, what are we talking

about in terms of the composition of

this ad hoc committee? Are we talking

about the committee that is going to be

created that will be broadly based,

that will include the Council of Puerto

Ricans and a number of other things

which I have no problem with? All I



106

want to make, as Harry says, crystal clear

is what we are talking about so that we

don't get bogged down later on.

MR. DUNGAN: My understanding, if I

may be permitted, is that the negotiating

team is as confused as everybody else is

as to who shall be included in the ad hoc

committee.

MR. WHEELER: That is not a correct

characterization of my state of mind.

MR. DUNGAN: What I .mean. is except

that the principle that it will be as

representative as it can be made until

such time as the really broad based

community group is established.

MR. WHEELER: I just want to address

myself to one aspect of Mr. Malafronte ' s

remarks. At no time did we suggest to

.the city that they stop talking to

people. We have not suggested that at all.

MR. MALAFRONTE: I understand that,

Harry. But he thought there might be



107

some suggestion along this line and I

wanted to dispel that. I knew you felt

that way and I thought I would clarify it.

MR. CHISSOLM: As a matter of fact,

'it was my understanding that the import

of the proposal put forth the other

night was that there would be a task

force, ad hoc committee, pardon me,

created consisting of neighborhood

representatives and city people.

MR. WHEELER: That is right..

MR. CHISSOLM: This was the import

of what I understood.

MR. DUNCAN: You are right. Having

in effect destroyed the task force as

the representative of the community, the

ad hoc committee was substituted as an

interim measure, ad hoc, until the broad

based thing could be created.

Now, I do think it is very important

somewhere along the line that in order

that everything be clear that we decide



108

when, within some perimeter, when that

broad based committee is established.

MR. MALAFRONTE: That is your

concern and we would like to get that in

time too.

MR. WILLIAMS: We have been coming

to meetings for quite some time now and

we have made contacts with people, we

have talked to people about this in an

effort to make it broad based. Now, I

would like to suggest that perhaps on

Wednesday night, if that is agreeable

to everyone, that we could talk about

that a little further.

MR. MALAFRONTE: It is certainly

agreeable to us.

MR. DUNGAN: You mean the community

and the city?

MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.

MR. DUNGAN: If I may suggest, I

think this is something that ought to

take place out of the context of this



109

meeting, that is the specific composition

of that committee really is a matter

between the community and the model cities'

administration with the involvement of

Mr. Chissoim.

MR. MALAFRONTE: Good. We think

Wednesday is a fine date.

MR. CHISSOLM: I will come back on

Wednesday.

MR. MALAFRONTE: Chancellor, may I-

just conclude what I was saying? I

think the question in Mr. Chissolm's

mind was whether we had narrowed it

right, the model cities' administration

to the ad hoc committee.

MR. WHEELER: I don't believe that

Terry Chissolm believed that.

MR. MALAFRONTE: He did believe that

and he now understands otherwise.

A VOICE: Mr. Chancellor, in answer

to Mr. Malafronte, I hope the people of

the community don't be caught in the bind,



110

that from -- I am hopeful that I am wrong . --

does Malafronte mean that he is talking of

the other groups? Say there is this group

in the community that has something that

they want to veto, then Malafronte can go

on to other groups and say,. " Look, baby,

let's take a chance and let them do it."

MR. MALAFRONTE: No, that is not so.

A VOICE: Let me finish. I want to

say that we are not caught in the bind

that you are trying to setup. Tell it

just about where it is out now. What

happened is we are saying here is that

the community people have a veto power as

well as the city administration. There

would be two veto powers. That is what

he is talking about. Say that we don't

like what the city said, the community

can say, "No. " It is vetoed.

MR. MALAFRONTE: That is right,

that is it.

A VOICE: But it doesn't need to be



111

made of five or six or eight or ten groups

in the city. If this group says, "No,"

then you will go to the next group and say,

"Look,.we have got five or six other

groups that say they want it you know.

You are only one group." No, baby, then

you will have trouble. So, what we will

I want to try to find out from the

Committee here so we all understand it.

MR. MALAFRONTE: That is what the

Committee is for.

A VOICE: I want to know where it is

at. I know where you are at on that

subject. So, what we will do here is let

it be known if there are twenty people on

that Committee, the city got five, the

Puerto Ricans got one or two, the other

community got one, we will put in a few

Irishmen, a few Italians, maybe one or two,

to show that we have enough people out

of the community to tell the city to go.

to hell.



112

MR. MALAFRONTE: The city most likely

will not have any voice.

A VOICE: That is all we want to

know.

MR. MALAFRONTE: The city never

presumed to have any vote on that.

MR. DUNGAN: The group that will

have the veto power will be one which

will be designated by the community made

up of broad community representation.

On Wednesday night, then, the model

cities and representatives of the

community not only including the

negotiating team will be meeting.

MR. MALAFRONTE: I find no

objection to meeting. If it should be

this Committee or a more broadly based,

it doesn't matter since it is obviously

going to be one of a series.

MR. DUNGAN: Do you have any

objection to that?

MR. MALAFRONTE: Whatever they



113

suggest.

MR. MOORE: Let's have it at the

UCC conference room at seven o'clock.

MR. WHEELER: We will hold it at

the NAPA.

A VOICE: Mr. Chancellor, I cannot

see any reason why this meeting should

be held at NAPA. Why can't this be

held at the UCC? The community has more

to say. I cannot see that meeting being

down there. Why not UCC?

MR. BROWN: Because NAPA is right

in the area,

A VOICE: Why not the UCC? It is

closer to the people.

MR. WHEELER: The point of the

matter is we are going to have it, we

have had some meetings at UCC and we

are going to have some others but for

the purpose of this we feel it ought to

be at NAPA. We had a meeting there today

and we will have a meeting there on



114

Wednesday. We will have another meeting.

MR. DUNGAN: I think the most

disastrous thing in the world, if I may

say so to all concerned, is if any

disunity enters on the part of the

. Committee at this point. May I suggest

that the State offer this as an

alternative site?

MR. WHEELER: Chancellor, we don't

need you to play peacemaker in this.

We will have it at NAPA.

MR. WALKER: As Mr. Malafronte has

suggested, there will be a series of

meetings here, I would suggest here

that the first meeting ' be held at NAPA

because it is in the heart of the

community where people are, you know,

greatly concerned. I also was a former

employee of UCC and unfortunately very

few people knew about it. I am

concerned about people in this community

getting where they can hear what is



115

going on. I think that should be given

consideration.

MR. MOORE: For the record, UCC by

law has to play a part, an integral part

in the model cities. Other things we

don't care about. We are committed to

this and if there will have to be two

meetings, there will be two, if it is

going to come to that. I am not being

unreasonable but this is what I was

committed to do as related to model

cities and that is why I did it.

MR. WHEELER: May I simply say

this. If Mr. Moore feels that it is

within his prerogative to have a separate

hearing, that is Mr. Moore's privilege

and I am certainly not someone to say,

" Please, don't have a separate meeting."

It is perfectly all right with me if he

has a separate meeting. But I am not in

the habit of making suggestions like

this purely for one thing or the other.



1 ih

There is no question about the fact that

NAPA is in the heart of the area that we

are talking about. You know it, is 10,000

members notwithstanding. .The point of

the matter is this is where the key location

is and the Committee against Negro and

Puerto Rican removal subscribes to that.

If NAPA says, " Let's have it in our place,"

fine, that is what we are going to do.

If Mr. Moore doesn't want this, all right.

A VOICE: Mr. Chancellor, I am not

a politician and I think we are talking

in circles for the simple reason we are

interested in the medical site. We should

negotiate for the medical site. Let one

thing get out of the way and another.

You have got a hundred things all in one

thing and you cannot just continue tearing

down and not building. That is the

problem here now. Get the medical school

out of the way, negotiate on that, then

you can move further. But you are getting



117

everything jumbled up and people want some

answers. You have enough to negotiate.

If you have to negotiate around the clock,

somebody will come to. terms. People are

getting tired of being starved, and I am

for one, and I think we need some answers

especially from the city and the Federal

government. The city had no business

coming through with this smooth line

acquiring this property and then getting

out of the deal, They should have waited

until they got authority from the Federal

government. Now the Federal government

needs to make the city come up on something

and get together with the negotiating team

and let us know where we stand because the

whole lot of meetings I am getting

disgusted with. You have enough here to

discuss if you have to sit until tomorrow

morning.

MR. DAVIDSON: While this is being

discussed, I have a draft of a letter for



118

Mr. Danzig that I guess I should read into

the record.

MR. DUNGAN: Has Mr. Danzig had an

opportunity to read it first?

MR. DANZIG: Of course not. Everybody

on the Committee has read it but I haven't.

MR. WHEELER: Has Mr. Malafronte

been informed?

A VOICE: How about the community,

will they be informed?

MR. WHEELER: They have always been

in the past. I see no reason why it

should change now.

A VOICE: Very good.

REVEREND PERRY: I would like to

know if they had two meetings, then whose

report would we have to accept?

MR. WALKER : The majority report.

MR. MALAFRONTE: I think that the

whole idea is to start a series of talks,

be it one, two, four. I don't think

there will be one.



119

MR. WILLIAMS: Area Board Number 2

on Springfield Avenue, 415 Springfield

Avenue, seven o'clock.

MR. DUNGAN: The purpose of this

meeting will be to discuss the. composition

of the group which will sit with the model

cities' administration of. the model cities'

matter.

MR. MALAFRONTE: This is the initiation

of discussions prior to proceeding as a

part of the rest of your problem here.

MR. DUNGAN: We understand that.

The relocation matter, as I understand

it, Mr. Beckett, on Thursday you hope to

have in the hands of the negotiating

committee the HUD version of the relocation

plan which will then be discussed as one

item on the agenda for Friday evening.

That meeting will be held here at 7:30.

MR. DANZIG: I can subscribe to the

content of this letter precisely with one

exception, Mr. Davidson, please. You say



120

here that we shall convey to nonprofit

or limited dividend committee based

corporations. I thought we had agreed

that these nonprofit or limited dividend

committee based corporation would be

selected by a broad based umbrella

group? I think that is what is lacking

in the letter. Otherwise I have no

objection.

MR. DAVIDSON: Make that change.

MR. DANZIG: Do you want to make

the change? I will sign the letter and

when you get a copy of it, I will initial

it if you put that in. Do you agree to

put that in?

MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.

MR. DANZIG: Give me a copy and I

will send it to you on my statement.

MR. DAVIDSON: I want to read this

in the record.

MR. DANZIG: You may read it into

the record with that one change and as



121

soon as you give me a copy of it, I will

send it out. Just put in selected by a

broad based community organization. "

MR. DAVIDSON: Chancellor Dungan, in

order to provide lands for the first

stage of the housing program which is

necessary to meet Newark's critical

housing needs, including those created

by the problem of relocation, the Newark

Housing Authority undertakes the following:

To convey no less than 24 acres in

NJ R-72 to public, nonprofit or limited

dividend basic community groups.

Parenthetically, I will add that

statement at the end.

It is understood that development

in this area should incorporate compatible

commercial and educational development.

It may include a day care center for

mentally retarded children.

2. To convey the following parcels

in NJ R-6 to one or several public



12.

nonprofit or limited dividend community

based corporations: 7B, 7C, 8B, 21, 23,

C'S, 31 and 33. Total crea ge in these

parcels is 25.0.

MR. DANZIG: Subject to arithmetic

error.

MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.

3. To redesign the following

parcels in NJ R-6 in cooperation with

a public nonprofit or limited dividend

community based corporation: 23, ?3A, 2 L .,

25 and 26. The total acreage in these

parcels is 20.59.

The Newark Housing Authority shall

secure the cooperation of the City of

Newark, the Newark Board of Education,

the Boys' Club of America and the YMCA

in redesigning this area with the

objective of making significant additions

to Newark's housing supply. In order to

fulfill this undertaking, the Newark

Housing Authority will obtain releases



123

of the options presently held by

Jack Parker.

The Newark Housing Authority will

convey these parcels expeditiously to

community based corporations as soon as

these corporations are organized and

designated by broad based community

umbrella organization.

All this is subject, I guess,

some stylistic changes.

Let me just note that in composing

this letter I became more and more aware

of the next important steps that we have

to take and a lot of this I am sure will

depend upon the assistance provided by

the Department of Community Affairs and

assisting, providing the technical

assistance to community groups in

organizing these corporations, providing

seed money, reserving those funds which

are available, just arranging things



124

which have to be done.

MR. WHEELER: I would suggest --

MR. DANZIG: That is not in the

letter.

MR. DAVIDSON: No.

MR. WHEELER: I am addressing myself

to the letter. I would suggest that you

keep it " corporate structure public

nonprofit. "

MR. DAVIDSON: I took the advice of

Joel Sterns who indicated that you have

more flexibility under New Jersey laws

if you use the limited dividend.

MR. WHEELER: I would say we go

with the --

MR. DUNGAN: Limited dividend or --

MR. WHEELER: No, I would suggest

strongly that we keep it in the area of

public nonprofit corporation for many

reasons and this, first of all, assures

many things flowing from the community.

MR. MOORE: Nobody at the table is



125

in the business of making limited profit

or anything else.

MR. WHEELER: And we are a public

body, community nonprofit.

MR. DUNGAN: I have made this

observation before this thing but I

think it. is an appropriate time to

restate it. I am certain that I speak

for the negotiating committee as well

as everyone here in saying that I think

it is extremely important that we move

as quickly as feasible to construct the

broad based community group because

de facto through these whole hearings

not only with respect to the medical

school problem but a whole range of

problems which we can't foresee at this

time this group will be an extremely

important one for the Newark community.

It needs to be broad based and it

particularly needs to be in operation so

that the substantial activity which I



126

hope is going to take place quickly with

respect to housing in these sites that

we have identified gets underway rapialy

and with a maximum amount of public

confidence.

I think that we have run out the

string for this evening and I would

suggest that we reconvene here if

possible a little earlier than we have

on Friday, say about 6:30, in order that

we can consummate, I hope, finish, anyway

move forward in our work. I do think we

have made again some progress. I think

there are many people who are under and

have been under strain, members of the

community, particularly the ladies whose

homes are in the 46 acre tract. The

medical people I know are and they lost

again today or had at least deferred a

substantial grant of public federal

funds for the improvement of the school.

I don t t think it is irretrievably lost.



sr

127

In other words, we are getting to a point

I think once again as I have said before

where I think it behooves us all who are

interested in this school -- and I know

the Committee is as well as those on

this side of the table -- that we move

forward to the point where we can reach

the point of substantial agreement and

permit things to go ahead.

I appreciate very much the effort,

I might say, of the federal people

involved and I know Mr. Beckett is

going to do all he can to get that

document which is so important to the

Committee in their hands by Thursday,

early Thursday, so that they can have

sufficient time to review it before our

meeting on Friday.

MR. WHEELER: There is just one

other thing. If it is humanly possible

in light of trying to narrow it down,

reduce the timetable, if for instance we



128

could get Cadmus in a meeting with a

small committee on the community health

things so that at least he would be

apprised and there would be some

exchange so that we don't lose that

time. Now what we are doing is going

out of our way to try to make ourselves

available to Mr. Cadmus and you know he

says it is his medical school.

Consequently, what I am talking about

is the possibility of some time

Wednesday if we are able to get the

people with their expertise here in

this area so that we could be on the

way when we come to the meeting on

Friday.

MR. DUNGAN: In any event, may I

.ask Mr. Sullivan to be in touch with

the representatives of the community

group so that some time before Friday

evening the medical school personnel

could get together with those persons



129

designated by the negotiating group to

work out any bugs that there still may

be in the community facilities program.

The other point I think that is very

important and I want to call attention

and allude to is the effort of the

. negotiating team in agreeing or

suggesting that in order to shorten the

time that ten days from the initial

announcement of the public hearing that

hearing may be held particularly in

view of the extensive discussion we have

had here in the last couple of hearings.

I appreciate that.

A VOICE: When will that announcement

be?

MR. DUNGAN: My crystal ball is

somewhat clouded right now. We are

certainly pushing forward just as rapidly

as we can to that.

REVEREND PERRY: When can it be?

MR. DUNGAN: Well, Reverend, I am



130

not really in a position to make that

assertion. I think that really is basically

a question of how we get through Friday

evening.

REVEREND PERRY: In other words, if

the Committee can agree with the plans

that Mr. Beckett will put in their hands

on Thursday, the meeting; can be announced

Friday?

MR. DUNGAN: We have some other items

with respect to community health services

and employment which are still to be

fully discussed but we are fairly far along

on those and I don t t see that there are

tremendous obstacles there.

DR. BR I ODY :

	

am Er. Briody, a

member of the faculty of the school. I

have sat here patiently through most of

the meetings and I have, in discussing

the situation with most of the member of

the faculty that I have had an opportunity

to do so with, stated that if I happened



131

. to live in the Central Ward or, I daresay,

in any part of Newark, I think I would

be taking a much . more militant stand than

the negotiating groups have and the

members of the Committee. I think on

the other hand it secrns to me as a member

of the faculty and speaking totally .

unofficially that there is only one way --

and this is not an ultimatum, this is a

very honest opinion on the faculty --

I think if the day for this hearing is

not set tonight, I don't think that there

will be a medical school and I don't

think there will be a medical school in

Newark. Now, I want to explain this and

suggest a possibility which you have all

considered and rejected. It seems to me

that if there is reconsideration before

you adjourn this evening, namely, could a

date for a public hearing be set tonight

and that public hearing would only become

effective and actually take place if the



132

negotiating team and the community were

satisfied prior to the actual. public

hearing? It seems to me from the

standpoint of the faculty and the

students -- I know a student here tonight

and I talk to many of them every day

that this is the only way to save this

school and I don't think that such a

position would in any way compromise the

negotiating team or the community.

MR. WILLIAMS: We have prepared

tonight a statement on one of the broad

issues, namely, the health facility

matters. We came prepared with

documentation, we came prepared with

experts. Dr. Cadmus is n'ot here. Some

of us have been meeting today since four

o'clock trying to get together this

program, yesterday, the day before that.

I personally had 15 minutes to eat dinner

before I came down here. Now, that is

six hours and forty-five minutes, if you



133

want to be exact, that I have been meetin g;

trying to meet Dr. Cadmus , deadline. I

think we are doing everything that is

possible to expedite time. I think we

should expect fuller cooperation from

Dr. Cadmus. If necessary, we could have

stayed here all night and ironed that out

because we came prepared to get substantial

complaints on that one point.

MR. WHEELER: Based on a prior

agreement, by the way, also that we would

do it tonight.

MR. DUNGAN: As a matter of fact, we

started off on that tonight and I think

got off the track on another matter,

important though it was.

MR. WHEELER: All I would say is

that undoubtedly the doctor was not

listening because when we move to cut

down on the number of days that would be

required to annouce for the public

hearing and hold the public hearing, we



134

were in fact doing the kind of thing that

he is suggesting and undoubtedly, based

on his remarks, that part of our thrust

must have been missed by him because what

we attempted to do is to move the

machinery at an accelerated pace within

the federal statutes.

DR. BRIODY: May I simply say,

Mr. Wheeler, that I do not know how I

could be more sympathetic with community

groups than I tried to express myself

but, yes, I am speaking really as a

member of the faculty and as a part of

the faculty. The Board of Trustees has

set this meeting for March 11. I am

absolutely convinced that there is not

a student in this school or a faculty

member in this school who is going to

be able to be held here if the Board of

Trustees does not make a decision either

to come to Newark, a final irrevocable

decision to come to Newark on March 11



135

or a decision to go elsewhere at that

time. I am just stating a point of view

of the faculty and of the students. We

may agree on all of the negotiations but

come the time for the move, there isn't

going to be anything to move. I think

it is as simple as that from the

standpoint of the faculty and the students.

MR. DUNGAN: Doctor, if I may so so

on behalf of no one but myself, it seems

to me you could do a great service to the

school and to the community and to all of

us who are concerned with this if you can

assure both the students and the faculty

that this matter will be resolved by the

11th of March. In other words, you will

be sure that the medical school will be

located in Newark.

DR. BRIODY: Well, I don't know how

we can have any assurance if the public

meeting cannot be set for ten days.

MR. DUNCAN: That is all I have to



136

say. I am sorry that the faculty finds

itself in the position it finds itself

after all of these months of striving

that we have to get to the point where

people are -- well, everyone has --

A VOICE: I would like to say before

anyone leaves that everybody here has

worked hard, very hard, not only at

meetings but getting facts, data. If

the college was to move out of the

community, it would still have to go

through this same type of thing all over

again. You are not going to be able to

move immediately. There are certain

things you are going to have to do,

certain processes that you are going to

have to take that you have already

solved here.

MR. MOORE: It should be readily

understood and I think something is

being missed here. It has only been the

last two weeks that we have gotten down



137

to the 58 acres which is what really is

the bone of contention and had we not

gotten down to the 58 acres in those two

weeks, we wouldn't be where we are today.

So, we have --

MR. WHEELER: And there has been

substantial progress.

MR. MOORE: We have had some

patience with the school and we want

them to have some patience with us.

Everything is going to be all right for

the 11th.

A VOICE: What I understand is

they made unreasonable demands on a very

poor city, I mean poor financially, poor

landwise, poor people, you know, and what

can you expect? I think we have done a

hell of a job, not me, but a lot of other

people.

DR. BRIODY: I would like to repeat

again as I said, if I were one of you

living in Newark, I would be much less



138

understanding than you are, I can assure ,

you of that, and I congratulate you on

this and I think you are only asking for

something that you should have had, as

you all said many times, years and years

ago. But I still feel an ob]igaticn as

a member of the faculty to put on the

table how the faculty feels and how_the

students feel.

MR. DUNGAN: I appreciate that,

Doctor, very much.

REVEREND PERRY: I would like to

know from the Doctor, is he really saying

to us tonight that unless when March 11

rolls around when the trustees meet and

we haven t t had the public hearing that you .

would know of a definite understanding as

to whether or not the school would be

located in Newark, then you would have to

take another step?

DR. BRIODY: No. I can t t speak for

the trustees. It is their decision to



139

make. All I am speaking for is how the

faculty and how the students are reacting

to the situation and I think unless,

from a student point of view and from

the faculty point of view, unless the

trustees are prepared on March 11 to

say that this is in, then I think what

I have suggested will actually come to

pass.

MR. DUNGAN: Thank you very much,

ladies and gentlemen. The meeting is

adjourned.


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