Correspondence from Winner to Morrill; Annotated Memorandum from Winner to Williams
Correspondence
September 25, 1981

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Case Files, Thornburg v. Gingles Working Files - Guinier. Correspondence from Winner to Morrill; Annotated Memorandum from Winner to Williams, 1981. 6170c6bc-de92-ee11-be37-6045bdeb8873. LDF Archives, Thurgood Marshall Institute. https://ldfrecollection.org/archives/archives-search/archives-item/b098604b-a4f1-4b82-a9a9-9014ac1451bc/correspondence-from-winner-to-morrill-annotated-memorandum-from-winner-to-williams. Accessed July 17, 2025.
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CHAMBERS. FERGUSON. WAT—I". WALLAS. ADKINS 8: FULLER. F’.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW SUITE 730 EAST INDEPENDENCE PLAZA 951 SOUTH INDEPENDENCE BOULEVARD JULIUS LEVONNE CHAMBERS CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA 28202 JAMES E FERGUSON “ TELEPHONE (704) 375-846! MELVIN L. WATT JONATHAN WALLAS KARL ADKINS JAMES c. FULLER. JR. September 25 , 1981 C. YVONNE MIMS JOHN W. GRESHAM RONALD L. GIBSON GILDA F. GLAZER LESLIE J. WINNER Mr. Richard MOrrill Department of Geography University of Washington Seattle, Washington 98195 Re: Reapportionment of North Carolina General Assembly Dear Mr. Morrill: This letter is written pursuant to our conversation of September 25, 1981 concerning apportionment of the North Carolina General Assembly. As we discussed, I anticipate needing the answers to the following questions in order to be able to prevail in the litigation which seeks to require reapportionment of the General Assembly: 1. Using the current rules which prohibit dividing counties, how can the State be apportioned to divide the population of the State more perfectly so that there is lower deviation from the ideal population per representa- tive? In answering this question, we probably need to limit the number of representatives in a multi—representative, multi- county district to the largest number in the current plan. That number for both the House and the Senate is four. 2. If the rules are changed to allow division of multi-member single county districts, what effect does that have on (a) the number of districts in which the major- ity of the population is black; and (b) the degree of racial concentration in the plan? 3. ' If county lines are disregarded and the only re- quirement is contiguity of census tracts or enumeration districts, what effect does that have on (a) the number of districts in which the majority of the population is black; and (b) the degree of racial concentration in the plan? Mr. Richard Morrill September 25, 1981 Page 2 With regard to this question, Jerry Ingalls said that since there are about 1000 census tracts and enumeration districts, it would not be feasible to answer this without using smaller subdivisions than the whole State to disaggregate. He had suggested making a plan that maximizes racial concentration keeping counties intact, and then subdividing those represen— tative districts. He also suggested that you may know a better solution to this technical problem. 4. DOes the adopted 1981 plan unnecessarily dilute black vote? Bipartflnflar GD how does racial concentration in this plan compareto racial concentration in the 1970 plan; and (b) is there a plan that concentrates black population more without dividing counties? There are a couple of other considerations. First Jerry Ingalls proposed in addition to analyze the compactness of the districts. While compactness is not our primary goal, I think that whatever plans we suggest must be able to withstand the criticism that they are too spread out. I think that to do this we only need to be able to show that our plans are not any less compact that the adopted plan is. Second, North Carolina has previously considered point contiguity as contiguous. If it is helpful to us, we can do that too. Third, down the road we will need to be able to analyze whatever new plans they propose along the same criteria as we have analyzed our own, that is, racial concentration and population deviation. We would like to be able to go to Court in mid—December or early January to prevent an election from being held pursuant to the current plan. We, therefore, will need the answers to these questions before that. In addition, and since I spoke with you, I have learned that the State has just submitted the North Carolina Constitutional pro— visions to the Department of Justice for pre—clearance. Thus, the sooner we can get evidence of the racially dilution effect of prohi- biting division of counties, the better. We are looking for someone with the technical skills to give an objective answer to these questions and with the credentials to qualify as an expert who can testify about the answers in Court. Mr. Richard Morrill September 25, 1981 Page 3 My conversation with you lead me to believe that you are interested in‘the project and are capable of doing it. I do need the answers to these questions: 1. What is the fastest that the analysis can be completed? 2. How much will it cost? You suggested over the telephone that you thought you could do it for $10,000. I assume this does not include travel costs. Are there other costs that it does not include, for example, witness fees? 3. You mentioned on the telephone that you would ask graduate students to do part of the analysis. We need to be sure that you will be able to testify about the entire result and that the graduate students will not need to testify separately. How do you anticipate dividing the responsibilities? 4. For my own curiousity, could you send me a copy of any relevant articles you have written? For your information I am enclosing a copy of the Complaint in the law suit, a copy of the maps of the current plan of apportionment, and a copy of the relevant constitutional provisions. I enjoyed talking with you and I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, @4241. Cam Leslie J. Winner LJW:ddb cc: Mr. Napoleon Williams Mr. Steve Suitts {EA 9“ / Mr. Napoleon Williams NAACP Legal Defense Fund71mu- Suite 2030 gflflrlo Columbus Circle (fi' / New York, New York 10019 t Re: Gingles, et al. v. Edmisten, et al.; Computer Analysis Dear Napoleon: I have gotten a final estimate for the folks at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte to do the necessary analysis for the reapportionment case. Before I describe it and its costs, I would like to say that it has been a pleasure to work with them. Not only did they seem to know what they are talking about, but also they seem to have a genuine interest in the result of the study and the result of the lawsuit. The following is my layperson's understanding of what Jerry and Paul propose to do for us. I am going to run this letter by Jerry before I mail it to you so that I can be sure that he and I-are on the same wave length. At that point, I will also alert him to expect a telephone call from you and your computer person to answer any questions which you may have. First of all Jerry and Paul will obtain the 1980 Census data in a form that is capable of being used on their computer and will also obtain whatever data is necessary to put the map of census tracts and enumeration districts onto their computer. They will use this data-fa a program which is called Location Allocation Problem as the basic tools of their analysis. It is my understanding that Loca tion Allocation Problem is a well-developed program for doing this sort of problem and is the most reliable one in the country. I} I4» wom_ueed x,7lt Sfi41«7 “Mohv7buté a. SWW On IWA ‘ does not do us any good to come up with a plan with 80 V single member districts if the populatxg deviation is 60 or 70 percent. We need to limit the population deviation to “934* ‘ . the latest amount which the Supreme Court has approved for a State legislature in order for the results of this part of the analysis to be :Erxnuch use to us.q?The next part of the analysis will be the part that changes the rules to allow the subdivision of counties. The analysis would be essentially the same as the first part analysis except that the rule of keeping counties inyfiact would be disregarded. This would be done in two ways. The first would be to make a rule that a multi-member single county districtscan be be split into single member districts but there will be no district that consists of pieces of more than one county. The second way to do it is to disregard county lines and put together districts consisting of any census gract or enumeration v/district as long as they are contigkpus. These would be 4 /selected to optighize low variance, high compactness, and high racial concentration and would be analyzed in the same - A magtér as the first partIand will be compared to each other and to the results of the first part. Because of the exceeding%harge number of possibilities of districts, if you totally disregard county lines and have no other rules, some artificial limits will have to be created in order to make it practical to run the program. The problem is picking which sub ets of the state to use as (imafingpto Qv" " ; units to desegrate £55? single,§ember districts. The most obvious choices are to take the best solutions from first part of the analysis which maximized racial contration and devide those districts even further to further maximize minority concentration. Another idea is to disaggregate congressional districts. In any event, this part of the program can be run several different ways and we will have a choice of final solutions to choose from. We will probably v The first part of their analysis will be to analyze the current plans; They will analyze it with respect to the respgee—ef variance from the ideal district Size, the compactness of each district,and the between versus within district variance of minority population. The percent variance from the ideal population, of course, relates to the one person—— one vote. The compactness anaylsis is necessary in order to show that any plan which we propose does not have districts that areAless compact than the plan which they adopted. Of course, the between versus within district variancéZminority population will.tend to show whether black people are concentrated within districts allowing them to prevail in elections or if they are evenly disbursed among districts which would tend to dilute the vote of black citizens. They will then analyze the implications of these resutls with respect to the constitutional ‘ mmdulfi M one personrone vote requirements,.germaiadifigva campaign a~4 efficiency, in the likely miniority composition of the legislature. The next step will be to optimize the current plan using approximately the same total number of districts and number of representatives per district. That is, they will produce . WWW. .rsam . WW“ 0) . plans which haveaa minimize of population de+vaaee, a maXimum of compactness, andfg maximum concentration of minority population. The next step will be to use the same ground rules, that is,do not divide counties, but will vary the number of districts and the npmber of representatives per district in order to try to produce equal population districts and in order to try to minimize the number of multi—representative districts. Each of these results will be analyzed for the same three factors: variance from target, compactness, and racial concentration. It is my suggestion in this phase that in doing the portion that minimizes the number of r multi-representative districts, they simultaneou§:%ht a cap on the variation from the target population. That is, it need to discuss more how to divide up the state as the starting point for this piece of the analysisfq¥The final part of the product will be a summary comparison of the analysis and identification of the best solution on each criteria and the implications and trade offs in selecting any "best" solution. The rest of their wrap up really will not have too much to do with us. There-a;e considerabie alternatives to the lgcation Bllocation problem/and discuss implications o€?%%€iJ~mizing criteria/and:fh:%§3licy implications of the North Carolina districting procedure.fi?Thus, what we get, in my opinion, is the answers to the following questions: 1. Could they have drawn the lines for apportioning the State legislature using the current rules in a way that more successfully complied with one person 435 one vote criteria and/or in a way that was more successful in concentrating minority votes? 2. What are the implications for minority concentration; of dividing within counties but not dividing and crossing county lines at the same time? \ but 3. How can youAmaximize black concentration disregarding county lines? 4. How do these solutions compare with the current LUI method which regard to other legitimate government concerns, that is, compactness of districts and variation in the population of districts? What this will costs us is $20,000.00. That is computed as 0 WM “3 .’ , follws: $3,000.00 for typing, supplies, equipmenfi, travel, kflqflfi d 11 Cash) f“! a document preparation, etc.}$5,000.00 for computer time; Z;;:~ . F s $10,000.00 for salaries} ' {he salaryggf-Paul L . «“5 //€;;ith‘the computervp czuoivcyquzflu/C , Jerry Ingles, who / U “ b is a political geographer, some consultation with other I people in their field, and some student labor to do some of I .the routine tasks. Jerry and Paul are anticipating working for 20 hours a week for 8 to 10 weeks on the PrOject Ixr>(L‘\,/'I-.;I_.‘..) , CL :\,'Q—\ ‘b . ~ .1 and hag*built inA$%,000.00 a piece for their salariiésand I \§z7666166“f6£ university overhead totalling $20,000.00. _7 1;, I {Wu—VI" V’analyEflng this amount it is important to note that they estimate that they will actually use approximately $16,000.00 of computer time,but because they will be using the computer only in the middle of the night at its off peak time,they I believe they can get the computer center to agree to sell them the time for a flat rate of $5,000.00. It is also important to note that the_university's usual rule for overhead is 50 percent of the project amount. They believe they can negotiate for a 7 to 10 percent overhead instead. fIThis amount assumes that they will answer all questions in the outline which they gave me on September 13, 1981 as we modified it in our discussions and also includes time in court if the testimony is before December 15. They will need to have their travel expenses covered if they need to attend court out of Charlotte. After December 15 they would charge us $30.00 per hour for actual in court time and will need to have their travel expenses covered. My feeling is they will do a very thorough job and will be easy to work with and that their price is not out of line. Of course, I am not the person holding the purse. Why don‘t you give me a call and we can discuss this. If you would like to talk to Jerry his telephone number is 704/5&2=%9%. 577-17. ‘73. I am not sure that I did a very good job of explaining all of this. I hope you can make heads or tails of it. Sincerely yours, Leslie J. Winner LJW:ofh