Deposition of Terence D. Sullivan Vol. II

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SUI.I. IVAI.J FU'.ITIIER D IIIECT

TO YOUR l(NOl{l-EDGE, DID ANYONE EVt:ti REFER TO TrIAT

DUR Il.lc ANY OF TllE COl,1l,1lTTEE MEi:T llicS?

NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. AI{D I SAY TI]AT REPRESENTATIVE

SPAUI-DIllG--l BEI-IEVE IT WAS REPP.t-.Sl:NIATIVE SPAULDING--

BUT IT i./OULD BE NECESSARY TO GET--TO LOOK AT THE

TliAtJl;Cl{l l']l'S I I' TllIY l-X I Sl --nl'Jl) I (.nl.l' T ttlMt:MtlIR

\{llt.TllIli Tlll-Y EXIST I'Oli TIIAT I)AP.IlCUl-nR NlEi:TING Otl

NOT_-OF THE TAPES TO F IND OUT VJHO I"IAY IIAVE ASKED FOR

THAT INFORMATIOT.'l. I BELIEVE IT \^/AS SpAULDING/ THOUGH.

DO YOU RECALL AI'JY DISCUSSIONS OF THE EFFECT ON RACIAL

VOT ING STRENGTH OF , ] NCLUD I IlC OR OM I TT I NG DURHAM

COUI'JTY FROM D I STR I CT T\./O?

DO YOU RECALL Al.lY D I SCUSS I0NIS OF THE EFFECT OF

INCLUDING DURHAI4 COUNTY IN DISTRICT TWO I,IITH REGARD

TO TIJE RACE OF CANDIDATES WHO MIGHT RUN TO BE THE

COI'iGRF:SSl'1Al'J FOR THAT DI STRI CT?

AS I RECOUI'.ITED IN TIIE DISCUSSION WiTII TI]E PREVIOUS

ATTOP.I"]EY FOR THE PLA INT I FFS A VJEEK AGO, ONE OF THE

II.IDIVIDUAI.-S THAT, IN OVERAI.I- DISCUSSIONS, WAS I"lENTIONIE

A:; A POSSltll-E CllAl t-t:r'l(;l:li TO MIi. l'OUNTn Il.l l'iAS l4R.

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SUI-LIVAN FIJI?TIiER DII?ECT

WHO MENT I OtIED THI\T ?

AS I I]AD TOLD THE PREVIOUS NTTORINEY, IiIIRE V/ERE

GENERAL D I SCUSS IONS. I CAN' T REMEI.lBER WHO

SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED IT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN

SOI,lEONE I]OUI.JD UP EITI]ER WITH TiIE PRESENT--\^/ITH THE

FOURTH D I STR ICT OR THE_-E I THEP. TIlE I NCLUS I ON OF

DURHAI,l COUNTY IN THE WAKE COUNTY TRIAI.]GLE DISTRICT--

WHAT TUP.NED OUT TO BE THE WAI(E COUI'ITRY TRIANGLE

DISTRICT OR TI]E SECOND DISTRICT--EIT}.IER OPPOSING OR

SUPPOP.TING ONE OP. THE OTHER OI-J TI-IOSE TWO

COI']F I GURAT I OI.]S .

D I D YOU EVER I]EAR ANYOI'IE SAY I NG TIlAT THE FACT THAT MR.

MIC}iAUX 14IGHT I']UI! FOP. COI.IGFIESSMAI'I II.I THE SECOND

D ISTR ICT l,/AS A IiEASOI'I NOT TO II.]CI.IJDI DI]P.I1AI.4 COUt'ITY

IN TIIE SECOI.ID DISTRICT?

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P.EFER TO

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OPPOSE

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A II14 SURE I DID. IT WOI]LD HAVE BEEI.I VOICED.

CAI.I ELAt]ORATI.---IT \^JOUI-D I-IAVE I]EEN VOiCED IN

OF 'I'IIAT THE SUPPORTERS Ot= I{IIAT I IM GOING TO

AS THE SECOT'.lD--TllF_ PRESENT SECOND--WERE VERY

IN FAVOR OF THE PRESINT II\]CUMt]ENT, AND THEY

HAVE, IN r"1Y OPINION, OR Tt-rEY SAID TIiEY V/OULD

n|'l'rllOt)Y WllO l'1IGll-t ll/rVl A (-llnt.l(.E Ol-: ()VI:t.,.TUt?.I.'lI

t,t).t_sIN'f I l.](.uMllENT .

Q DID Ai'.lYOtJE--DID YrJtJ E\,/t-R HEAR
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BARBEE EXPRESSING A



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SUI-t_lVArt trjr-llr.rEii [)lr?[(.7

COi.ICEFII'J At-]OUT MR. MIC AUX RLJNNII']G AGAINST

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THERE IlAVE tJIEI..I--M!I . BARt]EE-- I (-AI{ I T ttE14EMBER WHO

ALL MIGIIT IIAVE l'lEl.lTIOl'lED, YC)U KNO\^/, l'1lGHT HAVE

RAISED TIlNT FLAG OF I,1R. I''1ICI-1AUX. GENIERAI-L)" THESE

D I SCUSS I OI'.IS \.JEP.t.: ALONG TIlE L I I.]ES OI' t,JE I NG VERY MUCH

Itl I:r\VOli Ol: l'1li. t'OUl'lTn ll'1. ()(.(.AS IONn l-l-\', I l-lLY lJOtlt-L)

Tr\Ll( AIJOUI IJE l'1lGl1T OPI)OSE l'1ti. FOUt'.lTAlN OR OTI-lER

INCUMIIEt.IT, AND hrHEN TilAT OCCURRED, 0NE OI- THE NAl"lES

I,lEI.ITIOI.IED VJAS I'1it. MICI]AUX. TI-iERI I4AY ITAVE BEEN OTHERS

I DOi.JIT REM[MBEIt.

DO YOU I?ECAI-L ANY OTl.IEP. NAI.lES TI-iAT V/EP.E 14ENT I ONED?

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COI.]CERI'I ABOUT I'1R. M I CI]AUX

FOUI'ITA I N?

RUt.lt.l lt't(; AGA I NST CONGRESSMAN

A I DOI']'T REI4EI"1I]EP. \^/III.TIIEt? SII]ATOR A ORD SPECIFICALLY

MENTIONED MP.. l,llCHAU)(, BUT OBVIOUSt-'./, THE INDIVIDUALS

TIlNT \.JOUI-D HAVE BEEI'] COI.JCERNED ABOUT ANY CHALLENGER

TO i4ti. T'OUI.JTA II.J I.iOUIT; IiAVI INCLUDED BOTII ALFORD AND

IIAREEE, AMONG OTHIRS.

() l) lt) AIJ\'ol.tt: llln I --t) ll) ,'rll'/ 14l 14l1i-l.l ()l lllt: l-t:G I Sl.n l-ut{E

ilin I \'()lJ ()vl-l.Itt.nt(t) t)l',(.t,i,i; 1,1,.1 . l.1l(.llnUXrS l:l-l:(:l'AtllLlIY

Ill l- I(;ll1- rlF' TllE lllGlr tll /rCt( t'jr)l']tJl-n T IOtl--TllE lt IGH ULACK

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MR. SULLIVAN FI,IP.TIiER DIRECT

PERCENTAGE OF POPULAT'ION OF TIIE SECOND D I STR I CT?

(rxeREUPON, Tl-lE TEST IMOt.lY COI'JT I NUES ON

THE FOLLOW ING .PAGE. )

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SULLIVNI.I I-UitTI-IEP. D I itECT

I DONIT REI'lEI4BER AI"JY SPECIFIC COI.IVERSATIOI.]S AS TO

SETTING FORTH TIIAT }(II.ID OF ANNI-YSIS. TIIISI I,IATTERS--

THE PEOPLE RED I STR I CT I NG AND i I..IVOLVED I N TI]E

RED I STIi ICT ING PROCESS ARE AWAttE OF TI.IE POL I T ICAL

STP.AINS OT I{INOItITY PARTIES AI..ID I"lIIIORITY RACE. I

DOI'J'-f Tllll'Jl('llllS WnS PnttT Of COl4t.1Ol.J Kt.JO\./lEDGI:. I

DOtlrT Tiln{K TFTAT I'f 'S--Tiln t .I]tnt KtrlD ot: AN^Lysts

V/AS G I VEN AS THESE D I SCUSS I ONS EVOLVED.

EVEI.J I['YOU D0NrT R.El,1El"1BER A SPECIFIC COI'IVEIlSATIOtl,

DO YOU REMEI"lBER THAT THERE \^/AS SUCH A CONVERSAT I ON?

I 'I.,1 SURE Ti.IERE \,i EP.E COilVERSAT IONS THAT DURHAM I S A

llIAV ] L-Y tILACK D I STR I (.T --TllA-t- SOt..1E Bt-ACt( CAt.lD I DATE--

IF NOT MR. MICHAUX, SOt.1E BLACK CAi.IDIDATE WOULD ItAVE--

\.JOUt-t.) BI Ir.t A STriOt.l(; t,os IT IOI.]--wout_D (;Aril.tER TltE ULACK

VOI E OF DUI.]HNI{ COUNI Y. AhID I[= HE OR SI]E CHOSE TO

RUN ACA I NS T MR . F OUIITN I N- -

DO YOp RECAT_L HAV ING HEARD SUCH A COt.lVEl?SAT I ON, EVEN

IF YOU DONIT REMEMBER WHO SAlD iT OR I^/HEN IT WAS?

THESE D ] SCUSS IONS.-_THE CONVERSAT I ONS \.JOtJI.D I-IAVE BEEN

f- RAGI'1t:IITARY, EVEtI I F TfIEY l^/EitE-- I l' I T \./AS VO I CED .

I'14 GIVlt.lc you t"1y cEt!ERAL OVEp.nLL, I GUESS, FEELtNG.

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ARt: Y()U Iirl t(lNG AIIOUI

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r'1R. SU|_ tv^t.i FURTHER DIRECT

TIJAT YOU OVERIIINRD?OF COI,IVERSAT I ONS

TIINTIS CORITECT.

OR ARE YOU TALKII.IG AI]OUT YOUR SUT'POSITION OF WHAT

SOMEBODY MUST HAVE SAID?

NO. IT?S RECOI-I-ECTIONS OF COI,]VERSATIONS WHICH I

HAVE OVERHEARD--FRAGMENTS OF COI.IVERSAT IONS THAT I

uAvE ovEIilJEARD. .THE LEGISI-AToRS, NE\{spApER MEN,

STAFI=ERS, AI..ID PEOPLE REPRESENTING SPECIFIC CONGRESSMEN

AND OTHERS.

I./OULD YOU SAY TI.IAT YOU EVER I-IEAItD AI.JY LEG ISLATORS

PARTiCIPATING ]N THESE FRAGI"lENTS OF CONVERSATIONS?

YES. i'D SAY THERE !/ERE I-EGiSLATORS PARIICIPATING

IN THOSE CONVTIT SAT IOI.IS .

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I,/IlAT YOU .JUST SA I D I./AS THAT I)EOPI-E THOUGIiT THAT MR.

MICHAUX WOL'I D GAIINEII TIlE I]I-ACI( VOTE OI: DURIJAM COUNTY.

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DID Pt..OPt-E ALSO TNI-K ABOUT--

OR SOI,lEONE--OR ANOTi.IER M INOR I

D I D YOU AI.SO OVERIIEAIt ANYOI,IE

/rtl ll- ITY OF A BLAC.I( CAitD tDATt:

vol'F Ot: TIE OTlli:R COrJt.lT IIS Iil

TY CAND I DATE.

TN I. Ii I NG At]OUT TIlE

TO GNIiNER TItE I]LACK

D I :; rR l(.'l- Ttvo?

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DO YOI] RECAI.L T-.VI-II IIi.ARII'IG NI.]Y I EGISI-ATOR DISCUSS

Tr'lE I'ol- I-f I cAL srREt'lct'tl oF t'r.rt: DUp.HAM coMMt rrEE oN

TliE /TFFAIRS oF Br-ACti--t cAr] 'T RE14tMtiER THE r{nME oF